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How do I tell my partner he's never going to be a great, successful writer?

I've been together with my partner for six years and love him to death. He's 32, attractive, smart, and he does well enough as a paralegal.

The only problem is that he has this crazy idea that he wants to be a published writer. Since the time that I first met him, this has been his goal.

To his credit, he's written many little short stories and actually finished an entire novel which isn't terrible. He's good but not great. He is dedicated though and does work at it, even staying back while I go out with our friends, so that he can work on a story.

Now, he wants to start taking these expensive online courses to improve his writing, but really, I just think it's sort of a terrible waste of time and money. That's my honest opinion and I'm just venting here anonymously.

Shall I continue trying to be supportive or tell him the truth?

by Anonymousreply 329February 11, 2020 4:34 PM

If you really love him you support his ambition and be the shoulder to cry on whenever he receives another rejection from a publisher.

[quote] Now, he wants to start taking these expensive online courses to improve his writing, but really, I just think it's sort of a terrible waste of time and money.

It's his money. A sure way to become single is to tell your boyfriend that he should not waste money on some silly pet project of his.

by Anonymousreply 1November 9, 2019 3:43 AM

Tell it like it is, OP. Rip off that bandaid, the sooner, the better!

by Anonymousreply 2November 9, 2019 3:47 AM

Shut up and SUPPORT HIM, he's your man! It's your duty. If he's a good writer (most are not) he can always get better. He's only 32 FFS! Let him keep his dream, ya selfish cunt! It's the journey, not the destination that matters here. (Try to find Tennessee William's early short stories if you can. Theyre horrible! But he kept at it and got better. Luckily he didnt have a "partner" like you read to piss on his goals.

by Anonymousreply 3November 9, 2019 3:48 AM

You sound very selfish. You should be grateful your man has a hobby like writing instead of chasing dick. It's your job to support his passion and actually try to make him feel good. Keep your mouth shut and let him take his classes, there's much worse things he could be spending his money on you dummy.

by Anonymousreply 4November 9, 2019 3:53 AM

OP Ask yourself this: would you rather he support you and what you love to do OR would you rather be told THE TRUTH about yourself?

by Anonymousreply 5November 9, 2019 3:55 AM

Imagine you one day overhear him say this: "I used to want to be a successful writer, but my partner convinced me otherwise. So I focused on my day job and am doing well with it. But I'm feeling sad and unsatisfied and wonder what would have happened if I stuck with my dream." Would you want that on your conscience?

I have a good friend in her 40s who is flat broke and floundering in her "career," and now, what does she want to try her hand at? Movie producing. So I know the frustration. But when you let people follow their dreams they own it. You can shut down any complaining about rejections and low pay, because who is really responsible but themselves?

I think it's fine to dissuade him to take expensive classes, or to correct him if he says something dumb like "All writers make it eventually!" but besides that I'd let him find his way and support him within healthy limits until he throws in the towel or publishes the next Twilight franchise :)

by Anonymousreply 6November 9, 2019 4:00 AM

While you are probably correct in your assessment of his writing, it's his DREAM to be published, so why not tell him to go for it. Maybe his writing will improve.

by Anonymousreply 7November 9, 2019 4:00 AM

[quote] there's much worse things he could be spending his money on you dummy.

While it's not costing an arm and a leg, he's signing up for these expensive Stanford Continuing Education Creative Writing Track. And well, he doesn't take rejection incredibly well. So I'm afraid that if he does complete this course, and he still hasn't improved, he'll but in a real rut.

by Anonymousreply 8November 9, 2019 4:07 AM

Screw you bitches, if I was in the OPs position I'd try to politely talk him out of taking some expensive online program.

It's not about not letting him have hobbies and a dream, it's about not wasting a ton of money.

Sitting back and letting someone make terrible financial decisions is NOT being a good partner, or even a good friend.

by Anonymousreply 9November 9, 2019 4:08 AM

God - you people have been brainwashed in Marianne Williamson Magical Thinking. A partners job is also to provide honesty. If he is wasting money on courses in how to sell Herbalife, it’s a partners job to help him avoid wasting his money and time. Being honest isn’t “killing a dream” if done correctly.

by Anonymousreply 10November 9, 2019 4:08 AM

If it’s his own money and won’t mean you need to fund it, maybe encourage. But if he expects you to pay, maybe steer him to other options?

by Anonymousreply 11November 9, 2019 4:11 AM

Glad there are other people here who live in the real world r10.

by Anonymousreply 12November 9, 2019 4:11 AM

To his credit, he is paying for these courses, although he's made some questionable purchases based on this hobby. Such as this typewriter keyboard. Which to me, seems like a waste of money.

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by Anonymousreply 13November 9, 2019 4:13 AM

Sorry, the image didn't show.

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by Anonymousreply 14November 9, 2019 4:14 AM

OP, you should be his biggest cheerleader. If he's staying to worry that maybe he's not good enough right now, you help him get there. You support him taking classes. You go with him to writers retreats.

If you're worried about the costs, realize you're not spending money on classes for him, you're spending money ON him.

by Anonymousreply 15November 9, 2019 4:15 AM

Why the online courses?

The University of Iowa has a great writing program which includes some short term Summer writing workshops.

I know someone who attended one of the short workshops which are week long or weekend workshops in June or July.

Perhaps encourage him to attend one of these next summer rather than the online stuff.

I admit I know nothing about the online courses, but I've heard good things about the classes at the University of Iowa.

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by Anonymousreply 16November 9, 2019 4:17 AM

How bizarre to love someone and feel it's your responsibility to be his dream crusher?

Do you have a crystal ball? Can you see into the future? Butt out and act supportive! That's actually your job!

by Anonymousreply 17November 9, 2019 4:18 AM

Let us judge whether his writing is any good. Post some here!

by Anonymousreply 18November 9, 2019 4:21 AM

Be supportive. That's your role.

by Anonymousreply 19November 9, 2019 4:26 AM

Go ahead and tell him so when he becomes a successful author after you break up he can include the story of how you didn’t believe in him in an acceptance speech.

by Anonymousreply 20November 9, 2019 4:27 AM

Be supportive until you see this. THEN RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.

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by Anonymousreply 21November 9, 2019 4:33 AM

[quote]Which to me, seems like a waste of money.

Of course it does, because it's not your passion, it's his. You sound like a jealous buzzkill, OP.

by Anonymousreply 22November 9, 2019 4:35 AM

Sounds like OP's partner is a paralegal and pulls his own weight, financially. Partner is "good but not great" as a writer. What does that really mean? I know someone who got published, book made it to the NYT best sellers list, reviewed by Michiko Kakutani. IMO, book was not even good (not great, either). Yet, book was popular. Writer got a contract to write a 2nd book.

As a side note, I read some of this person's early stuff and thought this person was really talented. I think this person's editor knew how to turn things into a best seller (dumbed it down).

by Anonymousreply 23November 9, 2019 4:37 AM

Glad I don’t know you or have friends like you, let alone dated, fucked, sucked or partnered/married a soul crusher like you OP.

by Anonymousreply 24November 9, 2019 4:37 AM

He might improve and there are a hell of a lot worse things he could be spending his money on.

by Anonymousreply 25November 9, 2019 4:37 AM

God - the Sunny Sally’s on here are pathetic. You’re job is not to support irrational beliefs. You’re job is to be honest. Fine if he wants to write as a hobby. But I’ve seen so many actors and creatives who wake up in their late 40s to realIze how much of their time, money and life have been wasted on an irrational dream - most of whom regret not focusing on something more realistic and productive that uses their talents and for which they can be compensated and succeed. Lying and supporting a fantasy myth is not love.

by Anonymousreply 26November 9, 2019 4:38 AM

How the hell do you know he's never going to be published?

I know shitty writers--one is a mommy blogger!--who have agents and books in the store.

I know great writers who've only published short pieces.

I have many literary agents acquaintances who are always shocked every year by books that are doing well even though they are obviously trash.

It's his hobby--let him have fun.

by Anonymousreply 27November 9, 2019 4:43 AM

That keyboard at R13 does seem excessive though. Does he make lots of vanity purchases like that?

by Anonymousreply 28November 9, 2019 4:45 AM

R28, it's $270. A decent suit would cost more. People spend much more than that on their hobbies or to buy the latest electronic gadget that they don't need.

OP, how expensive is the Stanford course? In principle, I think you should support his dream, especially if he really is"good but not great". That describes most successful writers. On the other hand, if the course is so expensive that it would affect your lifestyle or long-term savings, then the situation might be different.

by Anonymousreply 29November 9, 2019 4:52 AM

I’m sure your night out out with friends at the bar, being a bitch and talking about your partner, cost more than that keyboard Op. Cosmopolitans add up girls! ‘Oh waiter...how about some small plate menus, hmmmm?”

by Anonymousreply 30November 9, 2019 4:57 AM

You should encourage him to follow his dream. Encourage him to enroll in a workshop where he can network and trade feedback with other writers. This will help him, no matter his current skill level.

by Anonymousreply 31November 9, 2019 4:57 AM

His lady Gaga obsession is more troubling to be honest. And he's 39.

by Anonymousreply 32November 9, 2019 4:58 AM

Online course? That's absurd; he should enroll in the best college or university he can. Does he even have a four year degree, OP? If not and he wants to be a serious writer, he should get one, then enroll in a MFA program.

I love it when people say they want to be a writer but have little to no education whatsoever.

by Anonymousreply 33November 9, 2019 4:58 AM

$270 is not even drinks and dinner out with a good bottle for two where I live, so not that extravagant.

by Anonymousreply 34November 9, 2019 5:00 AM

He doesn't spend THAT much money. The most that he's spent is for items to create the ambience that he wants for his workroom. He spent a lot of time converting one of our guest rooms into a writer's den, with bookcases, lamps, wallpaper, a new desk. But no, he's not a spendaholic.

by Anonymousreply 35November 9, 2019 5:02 AM

It's none of your business. That's his life, not yours. He's just sharing space with you.

by Anonymousreply 36November 9, 2019 5:04 AM

That last detail seals it for me OP - this is his passion. Let him pursue it despite your doubts. Good writers often end up doing better than great writers, so not being great is no bar to success.

by Anonymousreply 37November 9, 2019 5:05 AM

It's good to have a hobby. Count yourself lucky that his hobby is creative and inexpensive (as opposed to gambling, motorcycle riding, photography, etc).

by Anonymousreply 38November 9, 2019 5:08 AM

The detail in r35, I mean

by Anonymousreply 39November 9, 2019 5:08 AM

Leave him immediately. You don't deserve him.

I don't care how old you are — everyone needs passions and hobbies. He loves writing and is working to improve his skills. It gives him life. Other men draw, noodle on the guitar, garden, work on cars or the house ... this is his thing.

Would you rather he spend his spare hours cruising Grindr and cheating on you? Or being a depressed guy who does nothing but sit on the couch watching TV?

by Anonymousreply 40November 9, 2019 5:09 AM

You say he's good but not great. What makes you the arbiter of his or anyone else's writing talent? Are you an expert? I doubt it, but even if you had some credentials, you're still just one person with one opinion. There's a real arrogance there in assuming you are unequivocally correct in your personal assessment.

by Anonymousreply 41November 9, 2019 5:09 AM

And who the fuck are you, OP? Michiko Kakutani? Michael Chabon? Did you go to the Iowa Writers Workshop or work as an editor in NYC for decades?

by Anonymousreply 42November 9, 2019 5:11 AM

Meth. Get him hooked on meth.

by Anonymousreply 43November 9, 2019 5:12 AM

OP types cheap!

by Anonymousreply 44November 9, 2019 5:18 AM

Another thing - so much of writing success is contacts nowadays. Better than an online course would be a writer's "camp" or something like that where he will have a chance to meet a few professors who have relevant editor/agent/publisher contacts. Now THAT, while also expensive, can really do wonders, whereas the online course won't offer that same opportunity.

by Anonymousreply 45November 9, 2019 5:19 AM

I would never, R18. He's pretty secretive with his stuff, only letting me and a few others read his stuff.

by Anonymousreply 46November 9, 2019 5:27 AM

I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'm a writer but I don't do it for a living. It's more of a hobby. Someday I would love to take the time to write a book but I also know I have bills to pay and so I work a 9-5.

I think I'm an ok writer. I have friends who tell me I'm a great writer. Maybe. I have had one article published but that's it. I know I will probably never make a living writing. In fact, your partner should know that even if he writes something that is popular, it likely won't make him rich. Not everyone can be a J.K Rowling or the Fifty Shades writer. But what does being a "successful" writer mean to him? How does that look to him? Would it make him rich or maybe just respected? These are the questions you should be asking him. Success to me would mean publishing a book. That doesn't mean I'd get some fan base but if I did, great. It just means someone believed enough in me and my work to publish it.

My suggestion to you is to tell him to join a local writers group where the other members critique his work. Let THEM tell him what he could do to improve or give their opinions. Yes, you can be supportive of him while still being practical. Or have him try his hand at some online writing contests to see how he does. The New York Midnight contests are great. He will get good and bad feedback by doing those.

Your job is to support him and let him find his own way. Unless it's affecting you personally or taking time away from the relationship, say nothing.

by Anonymousreply 47November 9, 2019 5:37 AM

OP, you have nothing to gain by discouraging him from writing or pissing on his dreams. The only effect that will have is to make him resent you, or dump you for someone nicer, or to blame you for all his disappointments in life. So don't.

However, if you don't want him spending money on expensive onlines writing classes, the tack to take is that the classes in question are ripoff and that he can do better elsewhere. I'm sure you can find some comment somewhere on the internet, saying that the class is a ripoff, the company is dishonest, or that the teacher doesn't tell the students what they want to hear! Find the comments, and you'll both save him the money and look supportive.

by Anonymousreply 48November 9, 2019 5:43 AM

If he pays extravagantly for a class--fine--but it should be a real life class that he takes a flight to go to.

by Anonymousreply 49November 9, 2019 5:50 AM

[quote]Michiko Kakutani

Lol

by Anonymousreply 50November 9, 2019 5:50 AM

You never can tell and maybe his prison memoir about how he throttled his non supportive partner will be a best seller. Alternatively, he might still be an ordinary writer but I invite you to go to a bookstore and do the page 69 year. There are lots and lots of really ordinary quality books out there.

by Anonymousreply 51November 9, 2019 6:00 AM

Hopefully the OP's partner is not a DLer and reading this thread.

by Anonymousreply 52November 9, 2019 6:10 AM

Don't say a word Op. Writing is clearly his passion and joy . And for what it's worth you do NOT have to be a particularly talented writer to hit it big. You never know.

by Anonymousreply 53November 9, 2019 6:24 AM

I hope he finds this thread, reads it and kills you OP.

by Anonymousreply 54November 9, 2019 6:27 AM

^^^ then writes an amazing novel about it

by Anonymousreply 55November 9, 2019 6:29 AM

OP = cunt!

by Anonymousreply 56November 9, 2019 6:56 AM

It's not all that uncommon for writers to be in their 40's before getting their first work published, and that includes some people who have gone on to write international best-sellers. I write as a hobby (like someone further up the thread, I guess), and I was 43 before I had my first short story published. I've since had two more published and I'm now 47. Hardly enough to retire on - actually, I made enough from my first and second short stories to buy a new shed - but it's a hobby that I enjoy and it keeps me out of mischief. I still want to write a novel or three, and see them on the shelves of bookstores. I guess I'm very much like your partner in that respect.

Please don't piss on his dreams.

by Anonymousreply 57November 9, 2019 7:03 AM

It's not like he is quitting his job to be a full time writer. You are a jerk to tell him that if you really love him. Be a better person OP.

by Anonymousreply 58November 9, 2019 7:11 AM

[quote]I invite you to go to a bookstore and do the page 69 year.

r51 What is "the page 69 year"?

by Anonymousreply 59November 9, 2019 7:14 AM

It seems like a harmless hobby. Like others have said, there are worse things that your partner could be getting up to.

by Anonymousreply 60November 9, 2019 7:17 AM

I'm a published author. I don't make a lot of money, very few people have heard of me. But it pays bills and puts food on the table.

I've never done a writing course of any type. I firmly believe that the best way to learn how to write is to read. Read as widely and as much as you can. Don't stick to one type of genre/type. Read the lot.

And keep writing.

Since he is working and paying his way, you should encourage him to go for his dreams. So what if he doesn't get there? At least he tried. And frankly is '50 Shades of Grey' can make money, then why shouldn't he be able to make money?

by Anonymousreply 61November 9, 2019 8:22 AM

Shout it in his face when there are lots of other people around.

by Anonymousreply 62November 9, 2019 9:12 AM

R61 that's how Flora Tristan, Alexandria Néel, George Sand and a lot of amazing female writers from centuries ago learned how to write. A lot of them were poor and on top of that women simply didn't have the privilege to get any type of education. All they had (if they were lucky) were books given to them by parents or or friends.

by Anonymousreply 63November 9, 2019 9:21 AM

Use a third party to convey the message.

by Anonymousreply 64November 9, 2019 9:32 AM

Support the writing goals but poopoo the "expensive online courses". Help find an alternative for that.

by Anonymousreply 65November 9, 2019 9:37 AM

OP, listen up.

Firstly, it is only your opinion that his writing isn’t very good or doesn’t suit your taste. It is not a TRUTH.

Also, writing is a very big part of who you’re partner is. If you love him, you need to accept, respect and support this.

Additionally, do you not realise that they more you support and encourage him, the more likely it is that he will get “professional” opinions that may eventually lead him to your own conclusion?

Lastly, it’s the DOING that matters. It’s not a DREAM. You’re partner is a WRITER. Sounds like you’re jealous and can’t compete with his passion. Maybe he’s not the guy for you. I would say he certainly deserves better.

by Anonymousreply 66November 9, 2019 10:28 AM

Encourage him to find and join a local writers' group, where he can get feedback for his work and also learn from others.

by Anonymousreply 67November 9, 2019 11:23 AM

[quote]You’re partner is a WRITER.

You're partner's partner apparently is not.

by Anonymousreply 68November 9, 2019 11:26 AM

Plot twist: OP is the writer posing as his partner culling advice before dumps the body of his ex harpie.

by Anonymousreply 69November 9, 2019 11:47 AM

Two realities you are ignoring OP

1. What YOU think is great writing or even good writing is not necessarily what others do. Is he writing literary fiction? Spy novels? You're probably not the best judge.

2. He's is DEDICATED AF, which will clearly count for a lot. Most people who want to be writers will write single story or an outline, watch it get rejected (or not even bother to submit it anywhere other than say the New Yorker and the Atlantic) and that's the end of their career. He's obviously serious about this and, as noted, people improve with practice.

That said, there are all manner of online classes, so you want to be sure he's not getting ripped off.

But do not try and talk him out of it.

TBH, it sounds like you are a little put out that you don't have a similar dream.

by Anonymousreply 70November 9, 2019 11:55 AM

Support him emotionally, but don’t let him make any truly bad financial decisions (like quitting his job).

I’m in a similar position. My 57 year old brother believes he is a gifted writer. He refuses to get a paying job and instead cobbles together an existence doing odd jobs here and there and creating websites for friends. His life is predictably crumbling down around him and he’s turning to me for money more and more. The truth is, he’s not a great writer. (I work in a related business and I think I know good from bad when it comes to writing.) I don’t want to crush his dreams, but I also don’t want to have him as a dependent.

I feel for you, OP. It’s not a straight up yes or no situation. It’s good that he has dreams and he should pursue them. But if they threaten to destroy a stable life (his or yours), be ready to step in.

by Anonymousreply 71November 9, 2019 12:01 PM

Let's circle back there R71

Your brother has been trying to be a writer all these years and has never held a real job in all his 57 years?

Or this is a midlife crisis of some sort?

by Anonymousreply 72November 9, 2019 12:04 PM

Two choices, OP: dump him now, or commit to supporting his ambition totally for the remainder of your relationship. That’s it. Those are the choices. You don’t get a choice to tell him he’ll “never be a great writer,” or that his ambition is “silly.” Those aren’t valid choices.

If you feel they are, you should actually take the first choice and break up with him now. Find someone you don’t feel a need to change and who is perfect as is, and good fucking luck with that.

by Anonymousreply 73November 9, 2019 12:05 PM

Team Aspiring Writer.

by Anonymousreply 74November 9, 2019 12:05 PM

[quote] Your brother has been trying to be a writer all these years and has never held a real job in all his 57 years? Or this is a midlife crisis of some sort?

He’s been attempting this since he was about 30 or so, I’d say. He’s had jobs, but never stayed with them for more than a few months.

by Anonymousreply 75November 9, 2019 12:08 PM

How do you know he'll fail, OP? Are you a great, successful editor at Doubleday?

by Anonymousreply 76November 9, 2019 12:09 PM

I was good enough to be the kind of writer I once had the ambition to be, but I lacked connections. I got thisclose to getting my dream job, but the company doing the hiring went with someone they were already paying out a contract on and another writer who I now know had just graduated from a Little Ivy (I'd gone to an art school, one of the major JAPiversities, and a large state university).

I worked really hard at my writing for seven years. I'm sure I put in 10,000 hours, mostly on my own, but also through participation in a playwriting group where I lived. I won or placed in three screenwriting contests, and drew interest from two companies.

No one ever told me I couldn't write, so I can't tell you what I did when someone said that to me. I drew other, more psychological, boundaries between me and my imagined career, though. There's this one phone call I probably should have made, but did not, that might very well have secured me the job I wanted. Because subconsciously I probably didn't [italic]really[/italic] want to work in this industry.

Anyway, mine is just one story. I wonder if your partner is hanging on to you because of your negativity. He must sense it by now, even if you haven't said out loud, "YOU CAN'T WRITE, MOTHERFUCKER!" I hope if he really wants a writing career, he gets rid of you ASAP.

by Anonymousreply 77November 9, 2019 12:18 PM

OP, you have decided that your partner is never going to be a great, successful writer. So few people in the world ever break through to that level that your assessment is probably correct. It would almost always be the correct assessment by anyone for any aspiring writer.

But because you are contemplating shitting all over something very important to not just anyone, but to the man you love, your life partner for the past six years, you must have some exceptional skill and accomplishment in this area. Surely, you would not pass judgment over the man's craft without you, yourself, possessing excellent credentials in the field of writing and publishing. Perhaps you are a graduate of the creative writing program at the University of Iowa. Maybe you are an editor at a large publishing house. It could be that you are a famous belle lettriste whose name we all know.

I'm sure we're all curious. Please fill us in with a rundown of your academic and professional qualifications for assessing your partner's writing ability and his potential for successful publication. I know you would not do what you contemplate if you were just a shop bottom, a mid-level office drone, or a real estate agent, so we will read your CV with exacting attention to detail.

Thank you!

by Anonymousreply 78November 9, 2019 12:18 PM

His novel begins: "It was a dark and stormy night."

by Anonymousreply 79November 9, 2019 12:38 PM

You would be a good person to know, R77.

Good luck to you.

by Anonymousreply 80November 9, 2019 12:40 PM

Thank you, r80. But why me?

And where do you live???

by Anonymousreply 81November 9, 2019 12:42 PM

Leave him a note, OP.

by Anonymousreply 82November 9, 2019 12:54 PM

OP listen to Words of wisdom from Miss Tammy Wy-nette.

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by Anonymousreply 83November 9, 2019 12:59 PM

So, let me get this right. Your partner has a job as a paralegal so clearly he's contributing financially, but he also has other dreams and aspirations. I hate to break this to you, but most people hate their day jobs and long for something else. You partner has a vision and he's working towards it....maybe you should be fucking supportive. It's not like he's some deadbeat sitting at home all day contributing nothing. Why don't you dump him....I'd be happy to take him.

by Anonymousreply 84November 9, 2019 1:35 PM

R77, R81: Why? Your post suggests you are a thoughtful and experienced person with an adult's insights. I very much liked your compassionate defense of the writer. It was all well reasoned and rooted in your own experience which you were generous enough to share. Who couldn't use a friend like that???

Creativity is not always a blessing. It is not always a joy. It makes demands of its possessor and those demands can be burdensome. Creativity demands to be served. It wants release. Finding a balance is a challenge. I hope you found yours.

Where? Upstate New York.

by Anonymousreply 85November 9, 2019 1:37 PM

[quote] Being honest isn’t “killing a dream” if done correctly.

HONESTLY, the OP hasn't presented any evidence that he is qualified to adjudicate on the matter of his parters talent or his prospects.

HONESTLY, the OP comes across as a nudgey control freak who is jonesing for permission to kill the thing that matters most to his partner.

HONESTLY the OP overstates his case from the beginning, painting his partner as a desperate idiot gullibly wanting to pay for "expensive" online courses only to reveal the expense is less than what many people spend at Starbucks in a month.

HONESTLY, if the OP looked at it objectively, he could admit that his opinion is not determative of anyone's gifts or future and have a little fucking humility.

HONESTLY, OP if you want to be with a paralegal, find a paralegal. You are with a writer who supports himself as a paralegal. That's him: If you don't love that, you don't love him.

HONESTLY OP, You can cloak yourself behind rationales like "I'm just being honest" and " I just want to save him the pain" Or whatever it is you tell yourself, but the truth is as plain as day: you are just a run of the mill control freak who has decided to remodel his partner into a "manageable" version of the man he was when you met him.

HONESTLY OP, your partner pays his own bills (and maybe some of yours?) and therefore, nobody, ESPECIALLY someowne who claims to do it with love, has the right to tell him what to do or how to spend his time and money.

by Anonymousreply 86November 9, 2019 3:46 PM

[quote] Shall I continue trying to be supportive or tell him the truth?

You should stop trying to convince yourself you are being supportive and tell yourself the truth: That your partners passion for writing makes you jealous and judgmental and that you would love to destroy it so you don't have to share the attention.

Btw, how many books have you read OP? Many substandard writers publish. Maybe your partner is a better writer than you are able to appreciate.

Sounds like you might be the one who needs a reality check, not your partner.

by Anonymousreply 87November 9, 2019 3:52 PM

Most wannabe writers are tiresome as hell. It's almost impossible to shake them from their delusions, however. The best you can do is offer some polite criticisms, when asked.

by Anonymousreply 88November 9, 2019 4:54 PM

R77-- did you want to be a TV writer?

I'm asking because you referenced a "job" several times as well as playwriting and screenwriting courses/prizes.

by Anonymousreply 89November 9, 2019 4:58 PM

Yes, r89. Daytime.

by Anonymousreply 90November 9, 2019 5:12 PM

If you live in or near an urban area, it would be better and cheaper to find a writing workshop where he can get together with other aspiring writers and the can evaluate each other's work, perhaps with a writing teacher as a mentor.

by Anonymousreply 91November 9, 2019 5:16 PM

OP could suggest In person writing workshops that are less expensive, and give one not just verbal and written feedback but the body language of your readers and allow one to interact more with the criticism aspect of sharing writing. I think it's easy for someone to blow smoke up a student's ass when it's online comments and interactions, and use encouragement to keep someone buying courses.

Also, why not self-publish something if he wants to spend some money? He can create chapbooks or even a little hardbound copy of his collected stories, add illustrations or photos. There are cool personal ways to "do it yourself" and put your work out there that can make into an engaging project for someone who wants to share his writing. Chances are extremely slim of getting into the New Yorker, people have to relax those kinds of expectations.

by Anonymousreply 92November 9, 2019 5:34 PM

This is the point in the thread when we hear from well-meaning DLers who have no idea what they are talking about.

by Anonymousreply 93November 9, 2019 5:49 PM

You don’t say anything... I have a similar situation. My husband works in fashion as a designer for a well-known brand. For six years he has talked about starting his own brand. He never actually will as it will take a level of grit and perseverance he doesn’t have, let alone being able to attract capital. I just smile and say something encouraging when it’s brought up (again) with nothing actually being done since last time it was mentioned.

by Anonymousreply 94November 9, 2019 5:55 PM

Thanks for volunteering, r93.

by Anonymousreply 95November 9, 2019 6:09 PM

"I'M TELLING YOU NOW SO I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU LATER. YOUR SO-CALLED GREAT, SUCCESSFUL WRITING CAREER FANTASY IS DOOMED TO FAILURE, AND FAILURE IS NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR. I AM SO SICK OF THIS SHIT. I'LL BE AT THE MALL."

by Anonymousreply 96November 9, 2019 6:11 PM

The best experience I have had, in terms of improving my writing skills, is joining a writers' circle. Having a small group of like-minded people review one's work, offer criticisms, suggestions, and ideas has the twofold benefit of both helping one to write better, and also keeping one's ego in check.

by Anonymousreply 97November 9, 2019 6:12 PM

Just introduce him to Barbara Thorndyke. She can introduce him to the literati of the city.

by Anonymousreply 98November 9, 2019 6:14 PM

If you're in San Francisco, you can take a creative writing class at SFSU. It involves the students critiquing each other. People are pretty honest and I think the teacher would keep things in check (no ad hominem attacks).

by Anonymousreply 99November 9, 2019 6:37 PM

Would anyone else hazard a guess OP is jealous of the time the partner spends writing?

by Anonymousreply 100November 9, 2019 6:55 PM

[quote]This is the point in the thread when we hear from well-meaning DLers who have no idea what they are talking about. - YourMillennialFriend

Yes, I'd say.

by Anonymousreply 101November 9, 2019 6:57 PM

[quote]This is the point in the thread when we hear from well-meaning DLers who have no idea what they are talking about.

Thanks for the introduction, but we already know that from your sobriquet.

by Anonymousreply 102November 9, 2019 7:05 PM

The only way to tell if he's serious or not is if he's willing to sacrifice his free time to make it happen. As others have said, the ones who always talk about writing but never do or the ones who write one short story that doesn't catch on so they quit, are the ones who'll never make it. They're the dreamers. Someone who's writing constantly, even if it's not great or polished yet, is already on their way to winning.

Everyone's definition of success is different. For some, just the simple fact that they get paid $3 to tell a story is a win in and of itself. For others, it might take closing a million dollar deal.

by Anonymousreply 103November 9, 2019 7:06 PM

OP, are you an English major, a professional editor, a writer yourself? What makes you think you have the background and expertise to evaluate your partner's potential? Some writers work for many decades without being published. Workshops, online or not, finished or not. I sense something more going on... some power dynamic where you need to feel superior to him. If you love him, how about simply listening to him, understanding what interests and drives him, without creating a construct in your head about how you need to set him straight? How about being more aware of what YOUR need is in this?

by Anonymousreply 104November 9, 2019 7:14 PM

Please post pictures of his writer's studio.

Or at least, post a picture of the type of wallpaper he choose.

Thank you

by Anonymousreply 105November 9, 2019 7:19 PM

OP, be thankful and supportive of his writing hobby. My husband works in finance, but loves cars. He spends money on car shows, car parts, new cars, etc. But you know what? I support it because it would be way worse!

Your partner is learning new skills and that makes him happy, even if it costs money. If he’s in the financial position to do the class, be supportive! My husband is constantly learning new things about cars and taking classes or buying books. If he is happy, you should be too!

I also know it can be frustrating to be with someone who seems obsessed. I don’t really like cars and find them boring, but I can’t tell you the number of car shows I’ve been to, the hours of conversation where I just nod and agree, or the time I wish he would be hanging out inside rather than in the garage. However, if he is happy he is happy!

by Anonymousreply 106November 9, 2019 7:31 PM

Ignore the artist if you must, due to his controversial nature currently. And always, really.

Ignore this posting over allowing it to derail the topic and comments so far. This thread has stayed on topic pretty much.

This is an excellent song, however, that explores this very situation in detail. So--have a listen if curious.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 107November 9, 2019 8:04 PM

Writing is a SKILL. Not an art form. The more your partner writes, the better he gets!

by Anonymousreply 108November 9, 2019 8:18 PM

As a partner, I’ve worked with my therapist to be supportive and not critical. It’s really hard for me since I grew up in a critical household, and I confuse criticism with love and taking interest. I really work on realizing that I’m not an expert in what my partner does, and I might not appreciate some things the way experts appreciate them. Maybe his writing has some amazing qualities that are appreciated by a niche audience? Those Shade of Grey books seem dumb to me, but what do I know? That lady made millions from them.

by Anonymousreply 109November 9, 2019 8:33 PM

Well I was the OP's boyfriend. Struggled to make it as a writer for nearly two decades. Then I made it. Published a well reviewed novel and now am making insane money in TV. I'm 40. It happens.

by Anonymousreply 110November 9, 2019 8:35 PM

In your iciest tone tell him that you need the floor space in his "writer's den" for additional curio cabinets. Then turn on your resting bitch- face.

by Anonymousreply 111November 9, 2019 9:28 PM

Just think if Kim Guilfoyle would have told Donnie Junior that, we wouldn’t have his masterpiece’Triggered.’

by Anonymousreply 112November 9, 2019 10:00 PM

It's not your job to do that, OP. That's a job for agents and editors who send him rejection letters. Your job is to support him, not to be just one more critic: he's exposing himself to enough criticism already.

by Anonymousreply 113November 9, 2019 10:40 PM

IT STINKS!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 114November 9, 2019 10:43 PM

7/10

by Anonymousreply 115November 9, 2019 10:54 PM

Leave him. His selfish pursuit is giving you the short end of a relationship. If he has left you with one shred of self-dignity, then pack up and ghost him. Please OP, please, you really have to think of yourself!

by Anonymousreply 116November 9, 2019 11:18 PM

It doesn't matter if you're bad. It matters if you're entertaining.

by Anonymousreply 117November 9, 2019 11:21 PM

Maybe OP's partner is actually writing a self-help book: How to survive a partner who doesn't believe in you!

by Anonymousreply 118November 9, 2019 11:23 PM

Find a college professor to do it for you. Telling grad students they didn't have what it took is part of the job description. Those continuing education programs are a cash cow for universities and not much else.

Then find another boyfriend. If this bothers you now it's not going to go away.

by Anonymousreply 119November 9, 2019 11:44 PM

Because college professors are never wrong about evaluating potential.... right.

by Anonymousreply 120November 9, 2019 11:47 PM

Stand by your man, O.P. our you're gonna have to sit your cats down and explain D.I.V.O.R.C.E. to 'em.

by Anonymousreply 121November 10, 2019 2:14 AM

10 stars for the OP for coming here and asking, even though many of the answers are snarky, it is nice to have a place to ask for opinions instead of making a mistake with no input from others. You should have enough answers to make a reasonable decision as to what you want to do and it is your decision to make but I think there are a lot of good answers here.

I think the best answer is "we never know what the future holds". All any of us can do is try our best to do what we think we should be doing and hope for the best and that there are people to support us in those endeavors.

by Anonymousreply 122November 10, 2019 3:05 AM

Listen, I know four couples who've divorced over a boat. (Straight, the guys went crazy and bought a boat that was expensive or expensive to renovate.)

by Anonymousreply 123November 10, 2019 3:33 AM

I suggest you get on your knees and give them some service. That’s probably better than any of the awful things you say to him about his writing. Let it be be supportive and while you’re at it swallow

by Anonymousreply 124November 10, 2019 3:36 AM

I spent several years writing and editing for newspapers and magazines. Expensive online courses sound real questionable.

His money would be better spent on hiring a good editor with an impressive track record, both to improve the work itself and to provide bigger-picture feedback about the work.

Way back when, when I was first interested in this stuff, it was striking to come across universal agreement among accomplished writers -- journalists, novelists, people doing non-fiction books, et al -- that it is hard to overstate the value of good editing and the need for it..

If writers with the highest levels of critical and popular acclaim relate a strong need for editing, the rest of us damn sure need it, too.

by Anonymousreply 125November 10, 2019 3:54 AM

Share this thread with him. Say, ‘Oh Wow... look what someone wrote?’ As if... just tell him to get a day job.

by Anonymousreply 126November 10, 2019 3:55 AM

A really competent editor can turn a mediocre manuscript into a good or even great book.

If the bones of a good story aren't there, though, there's not much that can be done.

by Anonymousreply 127November 10, 2019 4:08 AM

You don’t tell your partner that. Just don’t. Be supportive as long as your partner keeps balance in his/your lives by not doing anything dramatic related to writing that would impact your relationship (money damage, intimacy damage, communication neglect, etc.)

by Anonymousreply 128November 10, 2019 4:18 AM

Marshall is this you? Well, you didn't seemed to mind my being a writer at all those smart dinner parties where you'd boast about my life's passion then glance about with arms akimbo, yet nary a drop spilled from your bottomless wineglass, whispering salaciously about my "lower endowments" as the real reason I'd kept your interest, to all who would listen. Yes, I'd join the laughter, even show my giggle teeth on occasion, but with each guffaw a little piece of my soul withered, Marshall.

Log out Marshall. Shuffle to the den and find it devoid of what you didn't lose but rather, what you gave away.

by Anonymousreply 129November 10, 2019 4:23 AM

Why study writing? The future is Instagram and Twitter.

I have read the classics but my withering attention span tells me I will NEVER pick them up again.

by Anonymousreply 130November 10, 2019 4:36 AM

You don't tell your partner, mainly because your own personal opinion isn't any indication of what will succeed in the commercial market. It just isn't. And it's not really your business.

I would steer him away from an online course though and suggest a real world one, if possible. Online courses aren't always a very good value for the money.

Otherwise, zip it.

by Anonymousreply 131November 10, 2019 4:39 AM

Have Kellyanne and George Conway send him an anonymous letter.

by Anonymousreply 132November 10, 2019 4:45 AM

An earnest scribe tome.

OP, you are a bottom. Bottoms cannot be choosers.

On you back, toes pointing to Jesus and present hole.

And, for the love of the goddess, STFU.

by Anonymousreply 133November 10, 2019 4:56 AM

I worked in the publishing industry for years. Honest truth, it's 5% talent, 95% who you know. If you partner is serious about wanting to become a published writer, his best bet is to go a pursue either a Masters Degree is Creative Writing, or joining a highly reputable Writers Workshop type program taught by published writers. Most successful authors typically get their work published as a result of connections they make in this setting. At the very least it will help him land an agent.

by Anonymousreply 134November 10, 2019 5:01 AM

R134 Did you leave the publishing industry because you have retired or because the industry has shrunk though lack of readers? The bulk of academic publishing is more easily distributed on line.

by Anonymousreply 135November 10, 2019 5:35 AM

It is not your right to throw a wrench into someone else's life trajectory and goals. You're a self-centered shithead for even asking this asinine question and deserve to find yourself abandoned one of these days. Hopefully, your unfortunate partner will find someone else who supports him and his dreams.

by Anonymousreply 136November 10, 2019 7:30 AM

You’re a shitty boyfriend and a shitty person. Hope he dumps you. x

by Anonymousreply 137November 10, 2019 7:39 AM

Show us the wallpaper, you nerd.

by Anonymousreply 138November 10, 2019 7:42 AM

TL/DR, but are you really equipped to make such a judgement? Are you a professor of creative writing or a professional literary critic? Or has he had some feedback from any of them? (Rejection slips don't count.)

There are plenty of cheaper writing courses online, eg The Write Practise, and he could also join a writing group in your area where they could give him feedback and help him to develop.

I agree with the others that you will destroy your r'ship if you torpedo his dream. If he has actually finished a novel, I'd say he's pretty serious.

by Anonymousreply 139November 10, 2019 7:50 AM

Christoper Rice is a fucking awful writer and gets easily published and gay idiots buy his books because of who his mommy it.

Being a good writer has nothing to do with being published.

by Anonymousreply 140November 10, 2019 8:12 AM

^ You can't be a good writer if nobody reads you. Or wants to read you.

by Anonymousreply 141November 10, 2019 8:36 AM

OP, you don't need to tell him anything. You start writing too without his knowledge, get published before he does, and be more successful as a writer than he ever will be. He'll automatically stop writing and take to drinking away his shame and loss of confidence. You can then be a supportive partner and offer to drive him to his AA meetings.

by Anonymousreply 142November 10, 2019 8:57 AM

You do sound terribly unsupportive.

I have an MFA in fiction writing. I am 41 and I have written all my adult life. I work as an editor and in communications as a career. I’ve published a good amount of writing, but not in the area I studied. And I oscillate between writing essays, research articles and poems, and I occasionally still write fiction and even scripts. I also paint. This is who I have been for my entire adult life. It’s a creative outlet. I always knew that I didn’t want to paint for a career/as a moneymaking enterprise because that’s not why I do it and I don’t want to feel obligated to paint what there’s a buyer’s market for. My mistake—from my vantage point in hindsight—was approaching writing that way, and my MFA program was hyperfocused on “great” Modernist writers and acclaimed/renowned contemporary writers.

People who start off writing because they want to be “a great” are not working from a place of creative expression, but from ego. Art that holds real value is a creative compulsion and not necessarily an entrepreneurial enterprise.

If your boyfriend is a writer, then that is a part of who he is and you need to accept that and support and encourage him. If you don’t think he has it in him to be “a great,” then—so fucking what? Many great artists are overlooked during their lifetimes. Many others are never known in the first place. That doesn’t invalidate their work. He is most likely writing because he has something to say and not because he has something to market so that he can become a marquee name. Why isn’t that good enough for you?

by Anonymousreply 143November 10, 2019 9:11 AM

He could be the next Jodi Picoult!

by Anonymousreply 144November 10, 2019 9:16 AM

Anyway...nearly everyone I know has (self)-published a book. Most of them are terrible. They are all on Amazon. People can choose Kindle or Print on Demand. A couple are doing really well in the Amazon ratings for their genre.

The real money is in having a film script made.

by Anonymousreply 145November 10, 2019 9:28 AM

Read, read, read. And write, write, write.

That's what makes good to great writing.

by Anonymousreply 146November 10, 2019 9:31 AM

R127 Back when I was interning for a publisher, there was a story about this successful writer who just couldn't string two sentences together. She couldn't write. But her editors agreed that she had great ideas for a book. Her editors did the actual writing.

I'm sure this happens all the time.

If you're terrific at WRITING, you can just become an editor.

by Anonymousreply 147November 10, 2019 9:46 AM

The business of fiction writing and the art of fiction writing are separate worlds in most cases. Publishers make their money from nonfiction books and then from bestselling fiction authors whose books tend not to be of great artistic merit. The Stephen Kings and James Pattersons are the celebrity writers whose work sells, and they are storytellers, not the sorts of people who are processed through MFA programs.

by Anonymousreply 148November 10, 2019 9:59 AM

OP - What makes you think that your partner will never become a successful author? Do you work in the publishing business? I’m sure you’ll be the first one out spending his royalties after his first book comes out.

by Anonymousreply 149November 10, 2019 10:18 AM

I expect the bf is spending money on these courses that could be put towards a decent vacation somewhere exotic. If so, I would be resentful too.

by Anonymousreply 150November 10, 2019 10:22 AM

Seems like you two have very different interests. Your boyfriend is interested in exploring his creativity and you are interested in being an asshole and destroying an integral part of who he is.

by Anonymousreply 151November 10, 2019 10:32 AM

Push your bf to self publish on Kindle Unlimited and hopefully the lack of downloads will be a wake up call. Otherwise, he'll probably carry on forever.

by Anonymousreply 152November 10, 2019 10:35 AM

It's perfectly possible to tell him you will support him whatever he decides, that you think he's a genuinely good writer (which you said you do), but you'd like a serious conversation about all the pros and cons.

by Anonymousreply 153November 10, 2019 11:15 AM

I’m not in a relationship, so please enlighten me: when people are coupled, does one get to dictate to the other what he is allowed to be interested in and spend his time doing? Is all sovereignty and creativity sacrificed for a life of building Pottery Barn wish lists and dinner parties?

by Anonymousreply 154November 10, 2019 11:19 AM

[quote] This is an excellent song, however, that explores this very situation in detail. So--have a listen if curious.

However, this is a song about two song writers. One song writer listening to another song writer and (secretly)juding the other as talentless.

OP Is not a song writer or a writer at all. OP 's vocation (beyond controlling his husband's interest is unstated) So it doesn't describe this situation at all.

But thanks for the image of a luscious young morrisey thinking about sucking cock in a bathtub.

by Anonymousreply 155November 10, 2019 12:42 PM

Cheat on him with a real writer, that'll show him!

by Anonymousreply 156November 10, 2019 12:57 PM

Tell him you can’t respect him unless he becomes the person you want him to be instead of the person he is. A little honesty will set him—er, I mean you—free.

by Anonymousreply 157November 10, 2019 1:00 PM

Don't worry too much OP -- they only publish very mediocre writing now anyway, this has been true for quite some time. For some insight, pick up something like Ready Player One, which was very successful and ended up as a Speilberg film, but reads like it was written by a moderately talented high schooler cribbing from Ender's Game.

by Anonymousreply 158November 10, 2019 1:02 PM

r122, No.

[quote]10 stars for the OP for coming here and asking, even though many of the answers are snarky, it is nice to have a place to ask for opinions instead of making a mistake with no input from others. [quote]

10 "stars" ??? Really r 122? The only stars associated with the OP's agenda are all black holes.

The OP did not come to ask for opinions. The OP came looking for advice on how to justify acting on his the jealousy he feels towrads his husbands mistresss: Writing.

Furthermore, The answers are not "snarky" they are pitch perfect responses to a stealth control freak trying subtly discredit his partners judgement and talents in an effort to gain permission, support and energ for undermining his partners dearest vocation.

For what end, who knows? To spend more time on a couch with OP or at another boring gay brunch? Who knows?

Perhaps the OP lacks a galvanizing passion in his own life and to fill that void, his solution is to undermine the confidence his partner has in his own passion and remove the nagging reminder that his partner has something he lacks? Certainly possible.

[quote] You should have enough answers to make a reasonable decision as to what you want to do and it is your decision to make but I think there are a lot of good answers here [quote]

Again, OP did not come here looking for "answers" to make a "decision" The OP came here to get support and guidance to do what he has already decided to do: Kill his partners central life passion to be in service to the op's whims.

[I think the best answer is "we never know what the future holds". All any of us can do is try our best to do what we think we should be doing and hope for the best and that there are people to support us in those endeavors]

Nope, hopeless bromides like "we never know what the future holds" are passive aggressive expressions of disapproval. Of course nobody know what the future holds. that goes without saying. Why say that? Only to inspire a sense of how low the odds are without stating it outright. Wet blanket..

If you are in artist the best you can hope for is to have someone believe in YOU even when they don't love everything you DO. That is what I hope for the OP's partner.

by Anonymousreply 159November 10, 2019 1:08 PM

#BeBest

by Anonymousreply 160November 10, 2019 1:25 PM

Tell him you asked for advice on a message board because you wanted to know "how" (not whether) to tell him he'll never be a great, successful writer. Maybe he'll go off and writer a best-selling tale of vindication.

by Anonymousreply 161November 10, 2019 2:06 PM

[quote] #BeBest [quote]

OP Listen to Melania: Nobody knows better than she: You don't have to read books to write books. You can be illiterate AND a best selling author.

And no, you don't get permission from a message board to kill your partners dreams. If you don't like his writing, fine. But know your place: His choices, His money and His life. If you don't like his choices maybe you aren't compatible.

by Anonymousreply 162November 10, 2019 2:14 PM

The majority of books published every year are " good not great." And many of them become bestsellers.You are neither psychic nor a publushing expert. The petty part of me kind of hopes that he becomes a huge success and kicks you to the curb for someone more supportive..

by Anonymousreply 163November 10, 2019 3:05 PM

I don't think it matters if he'll be successful or unsuccessful - the question is, why do you need him to quit doing it, if he enjoys it and it's fulfilling him in a creative way?

I'm trying not to rehash what others have said here. It's true you're unsupportive. But more important is you seem to want your partner to give up doing what makes him happy. You haven't said if you think it would make him happier *not* to write, it's seems as if it wouldn't. It seems like it would make *you* happier. The question not answered here is, why do you really want him to give it up?

The other question is, why do you care if he writes but he's unsuccessful? Is it because the rejection is crushing him? Is he obsessed and unhappy? Or is he happy just trying? If he's happy, why don't you leave him the f alone and acknowledge he has an interest that does no one any harm and gives him a creative outlet?

by Anonymousreply 164November 10, 2019 3:06 PM

R141 As has been observed several times in this thread, publishing alone is no validating measure of skills. Or said better, not being published doesn't mean the writer isn't skilled. Many "great" writers are not even published in their lifetime - check out the story of John Kennedy Toole who's work was rejected numerous times before his death - and then awarded the Pulitzer Prize posthumously.

by Anonymousreply 165November 10, 2019 3:37 PM

Schedule fabulous writer's retreats. Find ones that are couple friendly. Support his creativity and go those vacations together..

by Anonymousreply 166November 10, 2019 4:19 PM

writing is what makes him tick. he wouldn't be who he is without that outlet. be grateful. the quality or marketability of his writing is besides the point.

by Anonymousreply 167November 10, 2019 4:40 PM

one of my regrets as DL eldergay #24483 is not actively supporting the creative efforts of friends, family, lovers through the years.

by Anonymousreply 168November 10, 2019 4:44 PM

I would never, R105. This is a close approximation of his desk though, minus the phone and typewriter obviously. I do like his room. Our house gets lots of natural light and he was aiming for more of a gentleman's lounge.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 169November 10, 2019 5:35 PM

Leave him a Post-it note.

by Anonymousreply 170November 10, 2019 5:46 PM

[quote]Schedule fabulous writer's retreats. Find ones that are couple friendly. Support his creativity and go those vacations together..

OP this is the best win-win for both of you. While all the writers are holed up playing with words the bored partners can laugh behind their backs and compare hubby's cocks and general shortcomings. You're welcome!

by Anonymousreply 171November 10, 2019 5:47 PM

R171 Perhaps some of the writers are women who do not have cocks? Ya think?

by Anonymousreply 172November 10, 2019 5:49 PM

Women who do not have cocks, r172? What [italic]is[/italic] the world coming to?

by Anonymousreply 173November 10, 2019 5:51 PM

OP, stop whining and just go out and have an affair. Your partner can then write about your betrayal.

by Anonymousreply 174November 10, 2019 5:51 PM

I can understand OP wanting to be honest in a relationship. In this case, there is an "out" in that OP may not be the best judge of what's good writing and what's likely to be published. I dated someone who was good-looking and nice, but just plain dumb. Over time, it became untenable for me. I never told him, "You're dumb," but we did break up.

by Anonymousreply 175November 10, 2019 5:52 PM

I hope OP gets dumped like a rejection letter!

by Anonymousreply 176November 10, 2019 6:02 PM

Dream killer!

by Anonymousreply 177November 10, 2019 6:15 PM

I imagine OP wants his partner to direct his time and money into something that OP considers to be a better prospect for benefiting them both. Fair enough.

by Anonymousreply 178November 10, 2019 6:37 PM

You're no lit critic, OP. Shut up and be supportive.

by Anonymousreply 179November 10, 2019 9:12 PM

I want to travel a lot with him but he is insisting he spend his share of our vacation money on these classes. If it was up to him we'd never go out of state.

by Anonymousreply 180November 10, 2019 9:42 PM

JK Rowlings got rejection after rejection. You never know OP. I'd say be supportive and keep your negativity to yourself.

by Anonymousreply 181November 10, 2019 9:43 PM

OP, how many spare rooms do you have in your house? Did partner turn your only spare room into his writing room?

by Anonymousreply 182November 10, 2019 9:57 PM

OP, have you specified if his writing is factual writing or if it's self indulgent fantasy writing?

by Anonymousreply 183November 10, 2019 10:02 PM

Break up. You resent him and you’re working subversively to make him resent you.

by Anonymousreply 184November 10, 2019 10:13 PM

So effectively OP's partner is spending his share of their leisure/recreation funds on his personal hobby.

Sounds like a discussion of finances has to be had and some compromises reached, otherwise the r'ship may be headed for trouble.

Cheaper writing classes, writers groups, self-publishing/shorter, less expensive trips?

by Anonymousreply 185November 10, 2019 10:15 PM

From what you've said—he's a good but not great (in your opinion) writer, with the discipline and dedication to complete several short stories and a novel—his failure as a writer doesn't seem inevitable, nor is there reason to think that taking a class won't help him improve his writing. And given that he's got a decent day job and isn't expecting you to foot the bills for his classes or support him while he writes full-time, I'd say butting out and letting him do as he pleases is your best course of action.

by Anonymousreply 186November 10, 2019 10:19 PM

I thought I was doing the right thing.

I was very very sportive of my standup comic boyfriend until he asked me point blank one time.

I told him that maybe a career in comedy writing would better suit him.

He pretended it was ok but we broke up a month or so later.

Hold your tongue IF you want to stay together.

by Anonymousreply 187November 10, 2019 10:32 PM

This is the same as, “My boyfriend likes taking pictures of his family and the people he loves, but they hardly get any likes on Instagram and I am humiliated because other people don’t think he’s hot.”

by Anonymousreply 188November 10, 2019 11:06 PM

R169, hey, that's a great desk!

When you said, "writer's room," I wasn't sure if we were talking 19th century smoking room, Hercules Poirot room (geometric wallpaper), or something ultra modern and nordic.

Very nice.

by Anonymousreply 189November 10, 2019 11:51 PM

R180, have you traveled together in the past? If he wants to take part of this year's vacation money to further his dream, that doesn't seem like a terrible burden. Spouses do that kind of thing for each other. There will be other years for expensive trips.

If you love to travel and he never wants to travel, writing class or not, then you have an entirely different problem.

by Anonymousreply 190November 11, 2019 4:32 AM

R190, he has always been a bit reluctant to travel outside the US. I would love for us to visit Italy and Greece together, but he is never enthusiastic.

by Anonymousreply 191November 11, 2019 10:21 AM

OP, what sort of work does he do? Tell him he should write his novel or whatever it is he's writing as a hobby, be supportive of him, and that he should get a job as a technical writer, journalist, editor, etc. Good luck. If a partner or friend wanted to go to Italy or Greece I would gladly go.

by Anonymousreply 192November 11, 2019 10:26 AM

Henny Youngman once said: "Why do Jewish men die before their wives? They want to."

That doesn't have much to do with your issue but, ok: you both want different things. Without breaking up, or staying together while soul-crushing, why not do things separately sometimes? You go to Greece with a couple of friends, he stays home and takes a writer's workshop (for ex.).

One of my friends had a dad who liked to hike the Pacific Coast Trail, while his mom wanted to be a writer, not a hiker. So every summer he went off to hike the trail for several weeks and she stayed home and wrote. They had a happy marriage.

by Anonymousreply 193November 11, 2019 4:05 PM

OPs hubris is baffling, like he has some authority on what sells. There are literally 17 year old teens writing on Wattpad getting million dollar deals and selling books like water.

This is the case where we see how DL is made of mostly white overprivileged grandpas totally out of touch with reality. Your partner can basically self publish on Amazon, Wattpad or many other platforms under an alias and try it out if the writing entices people or not.

What I get from reading this thread is that OP is an elitist thinking only "high literature" is worth writing it and having a partner whose writing is average at best according to his arrogant standards is not something he wants to be associated with.

Not only is OP a terrible partner who can't support the one he supposedly loves, he's also an idiot who has no clue about the publishing world today. Literature goes way beyond your exclusive club of snobbish writers no one cares about.

Your partner may well be a very successful writer writing shitty stories like the thousands of self publishers with millions of followers online and big deals with publishing houses, but I get a sense you wouldn't want to be around him this way. You don't care about your partner's success, but how it would affect you and your snob frame of reference.

He deserves better.

by Anonymousreply 194November 11, 2019 7:29 PM

This isn't the difference between low brow fiction and literary fiction. He makes basic mistakes with grammar and punctuation and he gets lost in the plot and changes the characters' eye color and age.

by Anonymousreply 195November 12, 2019 1:22 AM

That is very true R194. I know of a mid-list once successful gay author, who now self publishes on Amazon. Who are the teens getting millions of dollars for writing on wattpad?

by Anonymousreply 196November 12, 2019 1:35 AM

R195, OP. Has he tried software like the one in the link?

I haven't but I'm ashamed to say that I've been typing my fingers to the bone over the last decade when I was suddenly told two weeks ago that I should use the DICTATION feature on my Apple Mac.

I've been using it for the last two weeks and it's great!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 197November 12, 2019 1:40 AM

Looks like I am one of the few people who sees it from the OP's side. He does not see his partner's use of time and money in this pursuit as a good investment, and does not want to support it to the extent of sacrificing vacation travel.

Best bet is to see a counsellor and work out how you will allocate resources as a couple. Compromise will be required.

by Anonymousreply 198November 12, 2019 1:43 AM

[quote] He makes basic mistakes with grammar and punctuation and he gets lost in the plot and changes the characters' eye color and age.

In the original post, OP said that partner's writing was "good, not great." Sounds like partner's writing is not even good. If partner is using up an extra room in the house & planning vacations that cater to partner's writing dream, then I guess I'd want to pull the plug on delusions of grandeur.

by Anonymousreply 199November 12, 2019 2:22 AM

I asked him tonight if he was interested in a vacation to Santorini, Mykonos and Crete next summer and he said no, he needed the money for the classes, and he also wanted to go on a writers' retreat. At this point, I am close to moving on. Travel is really important to me.

by Anonymousreply 200November 12, 2019 2:29 AM

So weird. If vacations are more important to you then a life partner, do move on. Just go.

by Anonymousreply 201November 12, 2019 2:33 AM

[quote] He makes basic mistakes with grammar and punctuation and he gets lost in the plot and changes the characters' eye color and age.

Oh, OP. This is why you should stick to telling us about his wallpaper.

Anyone who knows (and loves) literary history will be able to tell you that F. Scott Fitzgerald always fudged the details of his characters--and especially geographic details. And as the great Doris Lessing once told her quasi adopted daughter (another great writer), "There are editors to sort out the punctuation and things."

Writing is a life-long pursuit. Many are the writers who never published anything in their chosen form until their 40s--wouldn't you kill to have Virginia Woolf's or Edith Wharton's or Lawrence Sterne's reputation. I don't think Penelope Fitzgerald published her first novel until very late in life. But to be a writer like this, you have to have been writing all your life.

Sometimes writers are in the wrong genre--and someone who sort of sucked at short stories will shift into novels or nonfiction or whatever before the pieces fall into place. You never really know. Persistence is the name of the game. (Though Flannery O'Connor said patience is the writer's virtue. But I really think, in this time that's we're living in, it is persistence.)

by Anonymousreply 202November 12, 2019 2:35 AM

'If vacations are more important to you then a life partner, do move on. Just go'

You sound like another dull stay at home type. I am good looking and can find another partner. I refuse to go a lifetime or even a couple of years without travel, and he knows that. He is testing my boundaries for sure, and may back down. He should learn to use apostrophes properly if he is serious about writing.

by Anonymousreply 203November 12, 2019 2:36 AM

R202 He doesn’t care about his partner’s potential; he only cares about what he wants him to be.

R203 I am a writer. Happily single.

by Anonymousreply 204November 12, 2019 2:38 AM

R201, said it.

If travel is that important, why do you need your partner to go?

Why would your partner have to go along with something that gives you pleasure, while you get to veto something he enjoys?

It does not matter if he is a good writer or not--writing is something he enjoys. Just like you enjoy travel. But he is not trying to stop you from that, is he?

by Anonymousreply 205November 12, 2019 2:38 AM

I really, really don't think this is about writing. "You know my partner squeezes the toothpaste tube in the middle, and never puts the cap back on!" … is never about toothpaste.

by Anonymousreply 206November 12, 2019 2:52 AM

'It does not matter if he is a good writer or not--writing is something he enjoys. Just like you enjoy travel. But he is not trying to stop you from that, is he?'

Travel is something I want to share with a partner, like 95% of the population. I know DL attracts shut ins who rarely leave the US, but I've always travelled. We've travelled together, although I was the keener one. I'm not an introvert like a lot of people here seem to be. He is turning into someone I don't know, or understand.

by Anonymousreply 207November 12, 2019 2:53 AM

I would have though visiting Santorini, Mykonos and Crete would stimulate writing.

by Anonymousreply 208November 12, 2019 2:54 AM

At what point in the past six years did he begin to change?

by Anonymousreply 209November 12, 2019 2:55 AM

Another question--he's 32. How old are you?

by Anonymousreply 210November 12, 2019 2:55 AM

Maybe OP's partner's writing passion is akin to collecting Beanie Babies & Precious Moments, from OP's perspective.

Traveling as a couple might be at the top of OP's list of must-haves. Better to figure that out now. There are lots of people who love to travel, as couples. OP can look for someone who shares that interest.

by Anonymousreply 211November 12, 2019 2:58 AM

You know how I know you're a jerk?

Comments like this--

[quote] I know DL attracts shut ins who rarely leave the US,

At least one person here (me), leaves the US for vacation (not including work) three or four times a year. I speak three languages, and my parents have two vacation homes outside of the country.

by Anonymousreply 212November 12, 2019 2:58 AM

Way to humblebrag, R212.

OP's mention of his partner being secretive about his writing may show that he also knows he not a good writer. One can't expect any success while hiding it away. It was to be read, and shared, to improve.

OP's partner should join a supportive writers group, craft a few short stories, or send chapter excerpts as short fiction. He could start a blog or submit articles to small publications or newspapers. One doesn't become a published writer merely by submitting an entire, never-read novel to random editors or agents. That only happens in chick-lit books or movies.

by Anonymousreply 213November 12, 2019 3:03 AM

There’s a time and place to be silent. This is one. Taking a dump on someone’s dream isn’t a good idea. Unless you’re the head of a publishing house, be quiet. Suck it up.

We are nothing without our dreams. He may find a path that makes him happy, and you’ll be glad you kept your mouth shut. Or he may bitterly realize you don’t respect him and decide that’s the one thing he won’t compromise on.

In each relationship, there’s a tipping point: it can be love, sex, or money. You can survive any of these. You won’t survive disrespect.

by Anonymousreply 214November 12, 2019 3:07 AM

R210, I'm 31.

by Anonymousreply 215November 12, 2019 3:56 AM

R207, I wrote as someone who travels a good deal and enjoys it.

The idea that someone who advocates for a mutually supportive, non-manipulative relationship must be some sort of shut in is...interesting.

But you never explain why your partner should be obligated to take part in your activities and discouraged from doing something that he finds meaningful and enjoyable.

I am making a guess here, but I think the real issue is not that he writes but rather he has a part of his life that does not include you. Your attitude toward travel seems to indicate that you want all activities to be shared, so that his time alone writing, taking classes, and attending retreats rankles. Perhaps you need to develop your own independent interests, so that you do not need his constant attention.

Or you may not be in a place where you can maintain a mutually respectful and non-manipulative relationship, in which case the honorable thing would be to let him go and remain single until you are ready.

by Anonymousreply 216November 12, 2019 4:11 AM

It is something he likes doing, so continue to support him - if you liked cooking, you certainly wouldn't want him to try to persuade you to stop trying new recipes.

by Anonymousreply 217November 12, 2019 4:14 AM

[quote]I expect the bf is spending money on these courses that could be put towards a decent vacation somewhere exotic. If so, I would be resentful too.

[quote]Push your bf to self publish on Kindle Unlimited and hopefully the lack of downloads will be a wake up call. Otherwise, he'll probably carry on forever.

[quote]I want to travel a lot with him but he is insisting he spend his share of our vacation money on these classes. If it was up to him we'd never go out of state.

[quote]Travel is something I want to share with a partner, like 95% of the population. I know DL attracts shut ins who rarely leave the US, but I've always travelled. We've travelled together, although I was the keener one. I'm not an introvert like a lot of people here seem to be. He is turning into someone I don't know, or understand.

The same person posted all of the above. And none appears to be OP.

by Anonymousreply 218November 12, 2019 4:17 AM

The OP's partner is striving to be a writer and R218 is striving to be a detective.

by Anonymousreply 219November 12, 2019 4:28 AM

OP is Mary! Updike in 1955 telling her husband John to give up his little "hobby" and do something more productive, like selling insurance.

by Anonymousreply 220November 12, 2019 4:32 AM

Never date a man with ambitions! You will always be the afterthought!

by Anonymousreply 221November 12, 2019 4:32 AM

[QUOTE] I am making a guess here, but I think the real issue is not that he writes but rather he has a part of his life that does not include you. Your attitude toward travel seems to indicate that you want all activities to be shared, so that his time alone writing, taking classes, and attending retreats rankles. Perhaps you need to develop your own independent interests, so that you do not need his constant attention.

Interesting, but not the case. I am pretty self sufficient and don't mind that he spends a lot of time writing. But vacationing alone in Greece because he's spent all his money on classes/a retreat is a hard pass from me.

by Anonymousreply 222November 12, 2019 5:12 AM

Sometimes, you're better off dead

The Spaz Troll is here and has ruined your thread

by Anonymousreply 223November 12, 2019 5:15 AM

I just want to know who the fuck died and made you the arbiter of Good Literature. Just because YOU don't think it's all that great doesn't mean no one else ever will. Who knows, maybe he'll find an audience that thinks he's the next Nicholas Sparks or whatever. He deserves the chance to try to work toward his dream even if he never gets there.

by Anonymousreply 224November 12, 2019 5:15 AM

OP, how does your partner tell you that you're just a phase for him?

When people see you two in public they ask themselves why your partner is with a less attractive man.

You're the lucky one in the relationship - keep your mouth closed.

by Anonymousreply 225November 12, 2019 5:28 AM

R224 Don't aspire to be a Nicholas Sparks; aspire to be Dame Muriel Spark. She was a prose genius.

by Anonymousreply 226November 12, 2019 5:31 AM

R225, I'm better looking than he is, and if I go to Mykonos alone, I'll be hoeing it up in the clubs and taking one or two hot guys to bed.

by Anonymousreply 227November 12, 2019 6:28 AM

If that is true, OP/R227, unless you have an open marriage now, it is your husband who should be asking for advice here.

Here's a thought - if you want to see how a selfish man's obsession harmed his loved ones, watch the film 'Mosquito Coast.'

by Anonymousreply 228November 12, 2019 6:33 AM

[QUOTE] Here's a thought - if you want to see how a selfish man's obsession harmed his loved ones, watch the film 'Mosquito Coast.'

HIS obsession with writing and spending our precious few weeks of vacation time on his hobby is going to ruin our relationship. But perhaps this is what he wants. I can't be expected to tolerate his selfish behaviour. He is also a Harry Styles fan, which I find ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 229November 12, 2019 6:45 AM

I know, R229. Watch the film together.

by Anonymousreply 230November 12, 2019 6:49 AM

Also watch 'Hideous Kinky.'

by Anonymousreply 231November 12, 2019 6:50 AM

R229 is NOT THE OP.

Also, this troll hates dogs.

by Anonymousreply 232November 12, 2019 6:51 AM

I don't hate all dogs, just squashed face dogs and rescue fraus.

by Anonymousreply 233November 12, 2019 8:13 AM

Spaz zzzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzz zzzz,

by Anonymousreply 234November 12, 2019 8:14 AM

R229 Harry Styles fan? Dump him yesterday!

by Anonymousreply 235November 12, 2019 8:15 AM

Not true R221. Never date a shitty man with ambitions or you’ll be an afterthought. You can date a good man with ambition and be thought of every day.

by Anonymousreply 236November 12, 2019 11:34 AM

Don't aspire to be a Muriel.

by Anonymousreply 237November 12, 2019 11:35 AM

I’m a writer. I’ve had success getting published in one genre and none in the genre that initially got me into writing, and which I studied formally. Probably because I am a writer, I am something of a “shut in.” I am an introvert and I become overwhelmed and exhausted when I don’t get a significant amount of time to myself.

I also travel a decent amount. Since 2012, I’ve been to Paris, the Netherlands, Hawaii, California several times, NYC, New Orleans, and a variety of places throughout the U.S., some for work and some for myself.

Traveling used to be exhilarating for me. The stimulation of going somewhere new and experiencing what I’d never seen or interacted with before was so exciting and I thought it was my passion. I still enjoy it when I have the energy and the money.

However, discovery-wise, it doesn’t compare with pursuing my creativity.

Studying creative writing in grad school sucked the life out of it for me because it turned the act of writing into a chore and a job—an investment of time for the sake of an eventual payoff of becoming an “important” writer—which several of my friends have become and I have not. So after grad school, I stopped writing because there was no joy in it and I instead went back to painting, which is heart opening and creatively challenging and which I enjoy because I intentionally rejected ever pursuing it as a monetary enterprise. Now that years have passed, I’ve remembered that I wrote compulsively prior to grad school because I *loved* it. I loved it as much as nonwriters love, for example, traveling. The process of writing was a discovery as enthralling to me as the process of reading Harry Potter was to a generation of people, and at times as magical, since writers can go into a zone in which we lose control of our own ideas as we channel new ones, downloading them from elsewhere in a way that can’t be explained logically. I loved writing as much as a Millennial with a CrossFit membership loves posting shirtless selfies and watching the “likes” tally up on his Instagram. I resented grad school for a long time for having made me lose sight of what was so wonderful and wondrous about writing—why I really did it, and that was not to make money or to be considered important by other people. Now I write again because I have to do it to feel like a whole, full, normal version of me, and because of the excitement doing it brings to my world even as I am just sitting in a chair. OP, I have this dreadful feeling that you want to steal this joy from your boyfriend because you can’t access the world he goes to all the time without you. Given that he is disciplined about his writing even though you obviously resent him for doing it, you need to either accept who he is or else separate and save yourselves time. If you somehow convince him to give up this significant part of his being to keep you company and to go on packaged tours, he will resent you over the long term for keeping him in a cage with clipped wings. Don’t do it. It’s cruel.

by Anonymousreply 238November 12, 2019 12:20 PM

Obviously, "writer" r238 failed the class on paragraphs.

by Anonymousreply 239November 12, 2019 12:37 PM

The better question seems to be how to tell the op that he’s a lousy partner...

by Anonymousreply 240November 12, 2019 12:37 PM

R239 Obviously, you’ve never read Nobel winner Jose Saramago, Nobel winner William Faulkner, Pulitzer winner Cormac McCarthy...

by Anonymousreply 241November 12, 2019 12:49 PM

They didn't type online, r241. Makes all the difference.

by Anonymousreply 242November 12, 2019 12:53 PM

R242 I apologize. I shall rephrase to suit the intellectual rigor and the attention span of an online world.

I have all the best words. I am king. I am the greatest. You are a loser.

...and that is how we ended up where we are in this world.

by Anonymousreply 243November 12, 2019 12:58 PM

My assumption would be that he wants to take the online class because a retreat or other IRL class would interfere with his job. So if it costs a little more, but allows him to keep his day job, that seems like a no-brainer.

I have some sympathy for OP because if the boyfriend really wanted to vacation with him he would find a a way to do both. There would have to be compromises - shorter, cheaper vacation - but he could do both. So he doesn’t want to vacation with OP and it’s possible he’s being a little less than completely honest about it.

OP, he’s just not that into you.

by Anonymousreply 244November 12, 2019 1:02 PM

OP’s boyfriend might be into OP if OP supported him and had some interest in finding an equilibrium based on mutual compromise. Alas, OP would rather put out the other person’s fire to make his own seem brighter.

by Anonymousreply 245November 12, 2019 1:09 PM

[quote][R239] Obviously, you’ve never read Nobel winner Jose Saramago, Nobel winner William Faulkner, Pulitzer winner Cormac McCarthy...

Not r239, but...

There is an ENORMOUS difference between writing fiction and writing to communicate facts, ideas, opinions. The point of the latter is to articulate a premise and support it clearly.

There is an even bigger difference with writing the novel (or short story) form and online message board communication.

by Anonymousreply 246November 12, 2019 1:11 PM

R246 Thank you for the education.

by Anonymousreply 247November 12, 2019 1:18 PM

I prefer story tellers over "important writers."

by Anonymousreply 248November 12, 2019 1:23 PM

I've suspected this might be a troll thread fromt the beginning but I treat it as a thought excercise.

OP started this thread with the premise that his partner was jut an "ok" writer with a "crazy" dream of being published. OP claimed his struggle was whether or not to give his (unwanted and unqualified) opinion about his prospects as a writer.

Confronted with his arrogance and having his manipulations confronted, OP has taken a different approach. He now makes it an issue of vacation time and money. The OP is saying, unwittingly perhaps, that it wouldn't matter if his partner a brilliant writer or a shitty writer. The quailty of his writing is really a non-issue. the REAL issue is Ms. OP an her Greek vacation.

You could, as a grown man over 30, just say to your partner " I suport your writing, but the vacation is important to me, can we work out a compromise" Clearly not a good enough option for the OP. He wants to cut his partners balls off and go to Greece because he doesn't understand a creative vocation or the creative life.

OP if you can't successfuly compromise with your partner, maybe you just have to face the fact this man isn't for you and find someone more like minded or more compliant and submissive to your demands.

by Anonymousreply 249November 12, 2019 1:26 PM

r247 - I wasn't attempting to "educate" you, but directly refute your point that Scaramago et al. represent an adequate rebuttal to r239's "Obviously, "writer" [R238] failed the class on paragraphs."

As you don't seem to get that, you're welcome for educating you on something that should have been as plain as day to anyone who claims to be a writer.

Whether you are or are not a writer now, you clearly failed college rhetoric courses and never bothered to correct that failure.

by Anonymousreply 250November 12, 2019 1:27 PM

R250 Thank you for the continuing education.

by Anonymousreply 251November 12, 2019 1:28 PM

[quote]OP started this thread with the premise that his partner was jut an "ok" writer with a "crazy" dream of being published.

Is it such a crazy dream to be published? I ask this in all seriousness. When I apply myself (not here where I bang it out drive by most of the time) I'm a good writer... I have a natural way with words. Which I say to raise the question: I read so much that is published that I think if I sat down and applied myself for three to six months, I could produce better. Not prize winning... neither have the time nor the interest. But I am confident seeing the fast food that gets published (see any airport bookstore or the like) the dream of being published can't be that out of reach if you're possessed of not less than intermediate ability. I mean, John Grisham for God's sake...

by Anonymousreply 252November 12, 2019 1:29 PM

[quote][R250] Thank you for the continuing education.

You are more than welcome.

It's a rarity to find people who are so gracious.

by Anonymousreply 253November 12, 2019 1:34 PM

this is r249 writing:

[quote] Is it such a crazy dream to be published? I ask this in all seriousness. [quote]

I was quoting the OP's characterization of his partners ambitions, not confirming htem. Of course you can get published. People get published every day! You don't have to be a great writer to be published. You have to write something people want to read.

I encourage you to sit down and write.. write for joy .. write to get better and certainly write to get published if that is your goal. Almost anyone can get published if that is all that matters to you. For many writers, expressing something about the human condition and seeing that out in the world is the goal

Best to you.

by Anonymousreply 254November 12, 2019 1:35 PM

I laugh at all these "writing" courses. Most of the great writers didn't attend a class on it in their lives.

Victor Hugo, Margaret Mitchell, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Leo Tolstoy, Mark Twain, Virginia Woolf, Jane Austen. Small wonder there's so much ponderous, weighted down "literature" floating about, published and unpublished... too many rules to reach the threshold of greatness.

If you're good, sit down, start typing, tell a story.

by Anonymousreply 255November 12, 2019 1:37 PM

R252 Publishing is an industry. Writers such as John Grisham sell well. Novels made up of page-and-a-half-long chapters that are little more than suspenseful plot points that end in ellipses sell well, and they translate well into movies because they are written similarly to screenplays. Young adult and middle-grade fiction sell well. Some of these represent great stories, but the focus is not usually on the prose or deeper meaning; they just touch on universal sentiments of fear, romance, etc.

There is a qualitative difference between fine art and commerce. Most books that sell are the written equivalents of blockbuster action movies. There is not a big market for literary fiction, just as there’s not a big market for art films. Some writers—Cormac McCarthy, Toni Morrison—are fine artists who cross over into the mainstream. They are analogous to David Lynch and Lars Von Trier. But the Spielbergs and the Grishams will always be the ones who are in demand. They tend to double down on what they know will sell and rarely experiment with form or go for deeper meaning. And there’s not a big market for those who do.

It’s possible that OP is a Spielberg guy who, like our commenter here, believes that “good writing” is distinguished by clear, concise language that adheres to prescribed grammatical rules and that hits plot points—bang, bang, bang, one after the other—and keeps those pages turning, and that his partner is a Lynch or a Von Trier who knows exactly what he is doing even if others don’t understand it. And maybe his motivation is not to become a multimillionaire by writing the next Jaws or Jurassic Park or The Devil Wears Prada, but instead he may just be expressing himself in a way that holds meaning to him.

by Anonymousreply 256November 12, 2019 1:44 PM

[quote]I laugh at all these "writing" courses. Most of the great writers didn't attend a class on it in their lives.

Good point. But, writing has evolved significantly. I also question whether many of these writers would get published today, reflecting both changing styles and tastes.

Many of them would also have had a much better grounding in classics than most people do today.

Finally, the publishing industry has changed dramatically. Publishers used to be gatekeepers and editors used to edit. Much of that has now been outsourced to literary agents who provide much of the first line gatekeeping and editing - I have a few published friends whose agents do multiple rounds of edits with them before ever shopping their books.

This has resulted in a sameness to much of the literary and popular fiction published today - as noted.

If agents and publishers are driving toward a common structure, it does make some sense to learn what that is. Although taking courses year after year is probably not worth the time, money, or effort once you've learned key fundamentals.

by Anonymousreply 257November 12, 2019 1:51 PM

“Victor Hugo, Margaret Mitchell, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Leo Tolstoy, Mark Twain, Virginia Woolf, Jane Austen. Small wonder there's so much ponderous, weighted down "literature" floating about, published and unpublished... too many rules to reach the threshold of greatness.”

These people lived during times when there were no distracting smart phones and no television. Books were their distracting entertainment, and as with speaking a language, their fluency in reading translated to fluency in writing.

But even in the absence of formal writing programs, all of these people belonged to communities of artists, including other writers. Fitzgerald was part of the same circles as Hemingway and Picasso and countless others. They were their own version of an MFA program, workshopping and criticizing one another’s writing, and working out their own processes and styles through these interactions.

And it’s curious that you’ve added Woolf to this mix of artists, and stated opposition to writers’ “ponderous, weighted down” writing. Have you read Woolf? Most of her writing is ponderous and little else. Her story Kew Gardens centers around absolutely nothing of human importance happening—and that is her whole point. James Joyce—whose writing was disdained for both its form and content early on—detested Woolf’s writing, which he thought was self-indulgent and pointless. Joyce couldn’t get published in Ireland or Britain because it was “obscene,” and so he went to France. Woolf couldn’t get published because (we now say) publishers didn’t understand her writing style; back then, they would have said she was a shit writer. The determination is subjective, but many of us truly love her use of language. So thank God she and her husband had their own publishing company and that she was able to self-publish; otherwise, we never would have had an opportunity to read her work, which can be transcendent.

Value judgments just don’t work universally on art. People are too varied, perspectives change across time and cultures and geography.

by Anonymousreply 258November 12, 2019 1:56 PM

One side note: self-publishing used to be the domain of vanity presses only.

These days, a writer can pay a professional copy editor and self-publish through several different models, including Amazon. You don't have to pay Amazon. You simply upload an electronic copy of your book, including cover art. They use a print-on-demand service. You set the price. It's actually pretty interesting.

Publisher's Weekly now does actual reviews of self-published books and many traditional publishers will acquire self-published books that have sold well on Amazon (the numbers quoted are as low as 5000-10,000 copies) - Andy Weir's The Martian is one such. Genre fiction, especially Science Fiction / Fantasy, has several examples like Hugh Howley.

by Anonymousreply 259November 12, 2019 1:59 PM

[quote] OP's mention of his partner being secretive about his writing may show that he also knows he not a good writer. One can't expect any success while hiding it away. It was to be read, and shared, to improve.

Yes, which is why Op's partner wants to take classes and go on a writer's retreat.

In any case, it's clear at this point that this is isn't about the quality of the partner's writing, it's about OP's need to dictate how his partner spends his time and money , and make his own interests the priority in the relationship.

OP if you can't dealing with traveling alone or with friends some of the time, and having a partner whose interests and priorities don't always align with yours, then you should really break up and find someone who shares your love of travel. If it's true that your partner has never been that enthusiastic about traveling, he's not going to start loving it just because you convince him to stop writing.

by Anonymousreply 260November 12, 2019 2:02 PM

R258 takes it all terribly seriously.

by Anonymousreply 261November 12, 2019 2:03 PM

R261 I am a writer. So yes, I do take it seriously.

by Anonymousreply 262November 12, 2019 2:06 PM

R259, I used to read a lot of self published novels and gave up because most were awful and very poorly edited. But I find books produced by traditional publishers are also very poorly edited. For example, I read a murder mystery recently about hotel guests trapped in a snow storm. There were some ridiculous oversights. What the deal with that and can I make money pointing these things out? I have absolutely no literary qualifications, but I read lightning fast and spot issues easily. I’m also a good researcher.

I was actually wondering if it was possible to start a business doing this for self published authors. But why aren’t the publishing houses doing a better job? I’d do it for a grand a book. They could hire five people like me for every book and we’d catch everything and it would cost next to nothing. It is that getting the author to make changes would be too much of a hassle? People don’t care?

by Anonymousreply 263November 12, 2019 2:07 PM

If you were married to someone who painted as a hobby and took it seriously, would you threaten to leave him if you didn’t believe he would make many millions of dollars and become the next Picasso?

by Anonymousreply 264November 12, 2019 2:07 PM

“I was actually wondering if it was possible to start a business doing this for self published authors. But why aren’t the publishing houses doing a better job? I’d do it for a grand a book. They could hire five people like me for every book and we’d catch everything and it would cost next to nothing. It is that getting the author to make changes would be too much of a hassle? People don’t care?”

Money. Business. The bottom line.

Book publishing in the US is based in NYC, one of the most expensive cities in the world. Most people who work for publishers do not make good money. People become editors because they love to read, and then editors become agents because they want to make a living wage.

Nearly every book is seen as a product to sell. Celebrity tell-alls and political manifestos sell well and so publishers dump cash into those, knowing there’s a strong chance of a strong ROI. Young-adult and middle-grade fiction sell well now, and so those writers can make good money, particular with merchandise licenses and potential for movie and TV development options.

After that, not much is left. Marquee names of bestsellers are brands and so publishers count on these strong brands in bring in money that supports gambling on unknown writers and sometimes avant-garde writing.

Some nonfiction sells well, and it’s perhaps easiest to be able to understand how books to publishers are just products like lamps or shoes by looking at how most nonfiction sells. Publishers don’t care what the subject matter is, or even what qualifies the author to write or even at times what or how well the author writes; they care about platform. Platform is the person’s network that effectively guarantees sales. This saves the publisher its entire marketing budget. If you’re the CEO of an association with at least thousands of members, you are guaranteed an easy book deal based on your platform, because publishers know and expect the CEO-author will sell books to members and affiliates. That’s all it’s about.

If you’re a cult leader and you have a big cult following, there’s your guaranteed book deal.

Look at Milo Yiannopoulos: It was known that he put his name on articles written by his interns at Breitbart, and it was known that he was a racist, misogynist hate promoter. Simon & Schuster offered him $250,000 to write a book without a specific topic in mind and without having read his writing, simply because he had an apparent following who S&S knew would buy the books as trophies of their loyalty.

For fiction, the business is different. Some genres sell well and so agents are on the lookout for new-enough stories within those genres. Most agents and editors are big readers who love writing they love, and they do take chances on new voices (often scouting them from literary magazines), but those are little passion projects that keep agents and editors engaged with their work. They are the lowest priority of any major publishing house.

by Anonymousreply 265November 12, 2019 2:23 PM

OP's partner, very much alone in his writer's den...

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by Anonymousreply 266November 12, 2019 2:24 PM

r263 - yeah, a huge percentage of self-published books are poorly copy edited. If you're self-publishing, you need to hire a copy editor. The going rate varies, but I've heard figures quoted as low as $2000-3000 for a 100K word manuscript (that about how long Hunger Games is. Pride and Prejudice is about 122K words).

No idea why traditional publishers don't do a better job, but logic says it's go to be either time or time/money. It takes time and costs money. If a book isn't expected to sell, you can't really spend a lot of money on publishing it. No one would ever say "hey, I took piano lessons through the end of high school, I think I'll write a symphony." Yet, people think to themselves, "hey, I've read a bunch of books and have a laptop, I think I'll write a novel."

What most people seem to ignore is that as bad as the books we see published each year are, they likely represent the "best" manuscripts that they could find. Publishers dropped the idea of "developing" young, talented authors a long time ago in favor of "sure" sales. At the same time, they need to have a slate of books. Shelf space in stores used to matter. However, Amazon has greatly reduced that constraint along with the massive failures of all but a few stores like Barnes and Noble.

As for starting a business, it's already a crowded field. You can go online - there are several sites that specialize in allowing people to post work and let freelancers "bid" on it - you'd be competing against people whose day job is professional copy editing along with former editors freelancing.

It's not for lack of options that people don't edit their books better, but probably cost.

by Anonymousreply 267November 12, 2019 2:25 PM

Thanks for the detailed response, R267. I may look into it.

by Anonymousreply 268November 12, 2019 2:30 PM

[quote] OP's mention of his partner being secretive about his writing may show that he also knows he not a good writer. One can't expect any success while hiding it away. It was to be read, and shared, to improve [quote]

2 things. 1. The OP's partner probably senses the OP's judgements and agendas at least subconscioulsy protects himself by not sharing his writing. However keep in mind the writer in question must have shared a fair amount of his writing with the OP. Otherwise how could the OP have reached his (unqualified) opinion.

2. People don't write or create just to get the approval of other people. Therefore, it isn't necessary to have input during the creative process. An input while you are creating can be distracting or ..um. I dunno self sabotaging when you are surrounded by people who want you to give it up. When you share it with the world, then have at it but the process belongs only to the artist.

by Anonymousreply 269November 12, 2019 2:34 PM

R267 It’s money. If publishers had the money, they would hire freelance copy editors. And they do for what they expect to bring in a lot of money, because they develop budgets for those projects.

Writers today are generally expected to do all or almost all of their own marketing: build your own website, make your own flyers, schedule your own book tours and finance those yourself. One of my good friends is a literary writer whose writing was very highly acclaimed and she was made a priority “new voice” by her prestigious imprint. That got her a minor investment by the publisher insofar as promoting her books as those of an exciting new voice. She still had to pay out of pocket for her own website and everything else. Her agent discovered her through stories published in esteemed literary journals. Her agent loved her writing. Her agent did most of the editing. Her agent cares about her and her writing, and as such convinced the publisher that her writing matters. The publisher cares in the short term about moving product and in the long term about finding new anchor authors who will add either big book sales or prestige to their imprints.

The publishing industry gambles on what will succeed and what will not. Most books lose money. Publishers develop budgets for and invest in what they know will sell well. They’re not going to publish a book “by” Hillary Clinton that is riddled with typos after paying her a multimillion dollar advance. But they don’t have budgets or time to dedicate to negotiating copy edits with authors they hope will sell enough copies to break even. They have to move product and keep it moving.

by Anonymousreply 270November 12, 2019 2:36 PM

It sounds almost like self publishing is a better way to go.

by Anonymousreply 271November 12, 2019 2:41 PM

Depends what one’s motivation is, R271. If someone wants to become Stephen King or Dean Koontz, then they need to write prolifically and have a major distribution.

If someone wants to be Cormac McCarthy or Margaret Atwood, then the most viable way will be to publish stories in esteemed literary magazines (which agents and publishers who like adventurous writing read as a means of scouting authors) and continually build up credits.

If the writer is capable of something like Hunger Games, then write that shit and go directly to agents, who are desperately seeking that sort of thing.

Sci-fi/fantasy, memoir, self-help...those might be worth self-publishing. If they sell very well through that venue, then there’s a chance that that could be a sell. (However, it’s still a big risk. Lots of agents and especially publishers still look down on anyone who has ever self-published anything, based on the bias that if you had to self-publish, then you are not a good enough writer to interest a legitimate publisher. But if you’ve sold tens of thousands of copies on Amazon, they’ll happily forgive you to serve as your distribution vehicle and skim off some of your profits.)

by Anonymousreply 272November 12, 2019 2:50 PM

If the OP doesn’t simply hate his boyfriend, then maybe he could become his partner. Like, actual partner.

Virginia Woolf’s husband supported her. He edited and critiqued her writing. He published her writing. He admired her and he supported her.

Many authors’ wives and husbands were parts of their successes. Many helped their spouses to develop their writing. Many actually edited and contributed to the writing. Many served as promoters. Those people actually cared about their partners being happy and fulfilled, though, and so this may not apply here.

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by Anonymousreply 273November 12, 2019 2:58 PM

Encourage your partner write a travel blog and reviews of the places you travel to.

by Anonymousreply 274November 12, 2019 3:01 PM

OP should aspire to be Alice B. Toklas, stay home, get stoned and cook for her husband. I do.

by Anonymousreply 275November 12, 2019 3:03 PM

R274 That’s not a bad idea, to demonstrate interest by participating in the creative process. If you know what your boyfriend is writing, then use the trip as a writing prompt. “I’d love to see how Joe from your story would cope if he were unexpectedly sent to the Greek islands. It would be out of his comfort zone, right? It could reveal some really interesting and unexpected things about his personality, maybe even surprise him with new interests.”

by Anonymousreply 276November 12, 2019 3:06 PM

[quote]If someone wants to be Cormac McCarthy or Margaret Atwood, then the most viable way will be to publish stories in esteemed literary magazines (which agents and publishers who like adventurous writing read as a means of scouting authors) and continually build up credits.

Most literary magazine have few spots open for new authors. The majority of slots are filled by authors the magazine has asked to write a submission.

These days, unsolicited submissions wouldn't get the time of day, even by an unpaid intern whose job it is to screen submissions.

by Anonymousreply 277November 12, 2019 3:07 PM

R277 That’s not true. Most of my friends from grad school have published in literary magazines, and a few in Ploughshares, the Iowa Review, Glimmer Train, Agni, Granta, Paris Review, Kenyon Review and one now in The New Yorker. It’s absolutely possible. But they started at smaller independent magazines and built their “street cred.”

I’m sorry to be so absolute about this, but it’s honestly possible. It takes talent and discipline, and it helps but is not necessary for writers to be assertively self-promotional and to think of themselves as brand names that deserve good PR. I have discovered I am incapable of doing that for myself, but I do have a few friends who have done it gracefully and graciously and without making me lose respect for them.

by Anonymousreply 278November 12, 2019 3:14 PM

OP wants another partner. Somebody he loves passionately who shares his love of travel. To share these experiences and sights with somebody he deeply cares about. I sure understand that. What a high that must be. I've never had it and never will but outside of great lovemaking I can't imagine anything better.

You are 31. You need to find somebody else. You don't care about your partners love of writing and he does not care for traveling. You both seem to be wasting time with one another. Compromise will not work. While traveling he will think about getting back to his writing and you'll be annoyed. If writing means that much to him he'll forge ahead no matter what you say. And you'll resent it.

If you are that young and as attractive as you say you'll most likely find somebody else who you'll love to death who'll enjoy doing what you want to do. Swimming in the Adriatic. Seeing the great art works of Rome. Walking the streets of Paris. All with someone you love. Move on OP.

by Anonymousreply 279November 12, 2019 3:36 PM

[quote][R277] That’s not true. Most of my friends from grad school have published in literary magazines, and a few in Ploughshares, the Iowa Review, Glimmer Train, Agni, Granta, Paris Review, Kenyon Review and one now in The New Yorker. It’s absolutely possible. But they started at smaller independent magazines and built their “street cred.”

Interesting. How long ago was it that they got their first stories published?

You're right though, getting the initial publishing credits is a vital step. As with many pursuits, momentum is everything. Once you've been published, it's a lot easier to get the next one.

One thing I've always found puzzling is that people "start" with short stories. I'd argue that a well-done short story is much more difficult than a longer form novel, or at least different. It's like saying Usain Bolt is a great 100m runner, so his marathon times must be equally good. Writing a short story requires such an economy of words and precision compared to a novel that is much more forgiving in some respects.

by Anonymousreply 280November 12, 2019 3:53 PM

R280 I entered grad school in 2006 and finished in January 2009. A couple people I know were published in smaller journals during that time. A couple were published in more esteemed journals shortly thereafter (and I believe that that happened at least in part due to behind-the-scenes recommendations from influential professors). Most, honestly, have slowly built their credits over the years that have passed. One was a favorite of professors and got major publications immediately after grad school and then fizzled. Another was regarded as “interesting” and “full of potential” during grad school but was not a favorite of instructors—and he is the one who has been amassing major awards over the past few years and recently was published in The New Yorker. And he deserves it. So did the one who was a favorite, but she was a traditionally beautiful writer and not provocative or new in what she was saying. There was no reason whatsoever to resist her writing, and nothing off putting about it, whereas his writing is original and peculiar and an acquired taste, and at this point he seems to be the one with the voice that has caught people by surprise.

by Anonymousreply 281November 12, 2019 4:02 PM

Go to San Miguel Allende Mexico. Beautiful small city, amazing climate, food etc. Large Ex Pat community. The Art School is a major player in town. Lots of writers.

by Anonymousreply 282November 12, 2019 4:04 PM

I think OP is jealous that his BF has big dreams. And he wants to smash them to bits -- and delight in doing so.

by Anonymousreply 283November 12, 2019 4:06 PM

That's great for those folks - and gives me hope that that segment of publishing hasn't become as stale and stultified as it had seemed based on other people's comments (I had an editor of one magazine tell me they rarely published non-solicited works and several friends tell me their rejections reflected a similar attitude from multiple magazines.

Perhaps the folks I know just aren't that good - a distinct possibility. In some ways, it would be better to think that they were being let done easy, rather than the alternative that the whole literary magazine world is calcified.

by Anonymousreply 284November 12, 2019 4:07 PM

R280 Re starting with short stories—yes. At least in MFA programs, the general wisdom is that short stories are more of a skilled artform and hold greater potential to say something profound. My theory about the form being a “starter” form is pretty simple: writers give them away. No one pays a lot of money for a short story, except when it’s optioned effectively as a movie treatment. Literary short stories serve sort of as audition reels that announce “This is what I am capable of doing. This is my voice. This is my range. This is my point of view.” My friend who was solicited by an agent after publishing stories in very highly esteemed writing journals regards herself as a short story writer. She was contacted by several agents, and one desperately wanted to acquire her. She had a short story collection almost ready to go. Great, the agent said, but we need to lead with your novel. She told her agent she doesn’t write novels. That’s fine, her agent said; I’ll work with you on your first novel. She agonized over the process. She didn’t like it. And her “novel” was an unconventional novel format that one could easily argue was more like a series of connected stories. The publisher led with the novel, investing some resources in announcing it, and followed with the short story collection. The novel did not sell well, and was regarded as a disappointment. But she was never a novelist. She has continued to publish stories in acclaimed journals, and not for a lot of money.

by Anonymousreply 285November 12, 2019 4:09 PM

“Perhaps the folks I know just aren't that good - a distinct possibility. In some ways, it would be better to think that they were being let done easy, rather than the alternative that the whole literary magazine world is calcified.”

Personally—and this is just me—I think it’s a mistake to equate quality with popularity. There are so many people who write. Whether a person sells is determined by many factors. Those factors certainly include quality, but they do also include who you know, how good you are at marketing yourself and other factors. Some people may write brilliantly but be terrible at pitching. Some people may write brilliantly but not have much to say. Some people may not write brilliantly but may have brilliant ideas that overcome the writing. Some people may have brilliant ideas and express them in such unconventional ways that they confound the people to whom they appeal—but could be understood as geniuses if only they engaged an influential champion within the industry. Art, including literary art, is far too subjective and far too open ended to boil down to just high or low quality. It really is. Poor writing speaks for itself, but brilliant writing sometimes is so confounding that it obscures itself. That may sound like an excuse for poor writing, but really, consider that literary greats’ works violate rules of grammar and language to cross boundaries between prose and poetry and arguably even soundless music. Many of them were regarded as incompetent writers before they were recognized as ingenious artists.

Looking at other artforms can help put it into perspective. Vincent Van Gogh was talentless to all but his brother, an art dealer, and select artist friends. And now he is universally recognized as a true genius, even by scientists. Igor Stravinsky was panned by the mainstream as a composer, but Sergei Diaghilev commissioned and staged his music as ballets and Stravinsky is recognized as one of the most important progressive composers in history.

As the resident “Tori Amos troll,” I’ll disclose that her music has opened my eyes to the nature of fine art tremendously. I hated her music at first. It was weird and off putting and pretentious. Her album Boys for Pele was panned by music critics—absolutely panned as thoughtless self-indulgent trash. As time passes, it has become accepted as her greatest and most artistically ambitious work, and one that was simply too avant garde to have been understood and appreciated in 1996, but one that undeniably had influenced artists since it was produced, and which continues to reveal greater merits over time. Notably, it was Amos’s first self-produced album, made on her own terms and in defiance of her label’s demands. It’s effectively self-published (She owns her own publishing.), except that Atlantic Records was locked into a contract with her and effectively strongarmed into producing it to get it out of the way for a hopefully more mainstream effort—which they got with her next record.

Art is about expression. Publishing is about commerce. Sometimes these are compatible and sometimes they just are not.

by Anonymousreply 286November 12, 2019 4:31 PM

R267 "they publish the best manuscript available..." is the crux of the question, eh? There are so many variables to that discernment - 1) what the reader/publication is interested in 2) how the manuscript comes - the connections to others (MA writing programs, writers already published, past publishing history). So many great writers have experienced so many "thanks, but we can't use this material now" rejections - what defines "best available" is problematic, at best.

by Anonymousreply 287November 12, 2019 6:31 PM

[quote][R267] "they publish the best manuscript available..." is the crux of the question, eh?

Well, it would probably have been more accurate to say they publish what they believe will be either the most commercially successful or critically acclaimed, as critical acclaim would bring them some benefits.

I was shorthanding to say "best."

by Anonymousreply 288November 12, 2019 6:38 PM

R288 Yes, and it’s the same business model as optioning screenplays, producing movies and casting movies and television shows: business first, and then acclaim are the motivations.

The only exception to these motivations is when someone in power wants to do a favor for someone they personally know and care about, whether it’s family or a friend or an acquaintance.

by Anonymousreply 289November 12, 2019 6:46 PM

There is no real need unless he is spending a bizarre amount on retreats and classes.

With most creative work, the person will stop when it is no longer interesting to them or if no one is paying for it. I've been paid to write for almost 20 years and got my start as a magazine freelancer, but would have stopped if no one was willing to pay.

All other "aspiring writers" I've known moved to other paid roles in entertainment or media pretty quickly.

FUN FACT: Too many people want to write novels and screenplays, so even moderate success generally depends on good connections and being supported by someone else.

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by Anonymousreply 290November 12, 2019 7:06 PM

Writing is almost as easy as singing the female lead in The Marriage of Figaro!

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by Anonymousreply 291November 12, 2019 7:10 PM

Dear R238, I winced when you announced you were 'pursuing my creativity'.

by Anonymousreply 292November 12, 2019 8:16 PM

Dear R292,

OK.

by Anonymousreply 293November 12, 2019 8:19 PM

My partner isn't Woolf, Joyce, or Cormac Mc Carthy, all of whom experiment with form and language. His stories are ridden with cliches and stale tropes.

by Anonymousreply 294November 12, 2019 10:26 PM

One of the Spaz Troll's finest hours.

by Anonymousreply 295November 12, 2019 11:14 PM

R292 I recommend CBD oil.

by Anonymousreply 296November 13, 2019 2:46 AM

[QUOTE] If you are that young and as attractive as you say you'll most likely find somebody else who you'll love to death who'll enjoy doing what you want to do. Swimming in the Adriatic. Seeing the great art works of Rome. Walking the streets of Paris. All with someone you love. Move on OP

I love this poster! We should get married and have six week honeymoon exploring Italy, Croatia and Greece. Maybe Turkey, too. I love swimming in the Med, Adriatic and Aegean. You'd be an excellent person with whom to watch the sun setting over the caldera, in Santorini.

by Anonymousreply 297November 13, 2019 3:53 AM

[QUOTE] Who are the teens getting millions of dollars for writing on wattpad?

This happened once, and once only, to a Wattpad writer called Anna Todd, who wrote One Direction fan fiction called After, and several sequels. All were eventually published as books, and sold millions of copies. A movie of After came out this year, starring Hero Fiennes Tiffin as the Harry Styles character, and it grossed 70m.

The dire Fifty Shades trilogy is the only other example of fan fiction making the writer a millionaire. It started life as Twilight fan fic on Live Journal.

by Anonymousreply 298November 13, 2019 4:14 AM

R297 I am not your type. But this certainly was my dream for many years. Alas it will not happen though I have visited these places but not with someone I love.

Paris was especially heartbreaking.

by Anonymousreply 299November 13, 2019 4:39 AM

Please tell him that rather than expensive online courses, he should sign up for much less expensive courses at 1) the closest local university that has graduate creative writing classes, especially if they allow non-matriculated students or students who aren't officially in MFA/MA programs OR 2) the closest community-based creative writing workshops.

You don't have to be the greatest writer to be successful, which can be measured in different ways. If he's writing genre fiction, for example, there are many people out there who want to read that kind of work. If he's more into literary fiction, creative writing workshops can help him hone his craft. But please encourage him, and if he thinks he's the next William Faulkner or Toni Morrison, and you love him, humor him and be as supportive as you can. Also, 32-33 is very young in the writing biz.

by Anonymousreply 300November 13, 2019 4:47 AM

[QUOTE] Alas it will not happen though I have visited these places but not with someone I love.

This is sad. You should not give up hope yet.

by Anonymousreply 301November 13, 2019 6:54 AM

I am humoring him in many ways. He doesn't want to socialize at weekends, so I often go to dinner parties and bars to meet our friends alone. He is too busy writing, and I understand that. I went to a couple of movies alone too.

But vacationing on my own isn't something I want to do, especially somewhere as far away as Greece. Btw, for the guy saying it's a 'package holiday' - it isn't. We would fly on a scheduled flight to Heathrow, then fly to Crete the next day. There are flights or catamarans between the islands. I have my eye on some stunning boutique hotels.

by Anonymousreply 302November 13, 2019 7:02 AM

I'm not understanding this. Why are you forcing him to go on a vacation when he'd rather spend his energy on writing? It is his hobby and pleasure which he hopes one day to make money from. I'm beginning to believe the people who say you are purposely undermining him out of jealousy. Maybe they are right and you don't deserve him.

Or the poster was wrong who gave you a 7/10 and it is a 1/10.

by Anonymousreply 303November 13, 2019 11:30 AM

[quote]I went to a couple of movies alone too.

My God. Your sacrifice....

by Anonymousreply 304November 13, 2019 2:15 PM

Dear god, all of this self-righteous "follow your dreams" crap is exhausting and wails of "your'e killing his dreams" equally so.

It is not unreasonable for OP to want companionship from his partner.

Of course, he should be supportive and definitely should NOT tell him that he's never going to be successful (mostly because he can't know that - have you read Twilight or Fifty Shades of Insipid?). If the partner wants to spend money on online courses, that's his choice UNLESS it is somehow impairing previously agreed and shared financial goals they have or if OP is indirectly paying for them by paying for other shared costs.

But, occasionally going out with friends, vacationing together is not unreasonable. If you're not spending time together and actually sharing a life, OP is just a walking, talking, breathing fleshlight for his partner to use when he wants to get off.

by Anonymousreply 305November 13, 2019 5:08 PM

I don't know who this poster is pretending to be me, but I'm the only OP and have signed all my posts.

by Anonymousreply 306November 13, 2019 5:10 PM

So then he should leave. They seem terribly incompatible and how much of a partner can OP be if he has to come here, wondering how to tell his partner he's never going to be a great, successful writer (in no small part because the pursuit of writing is cutting in on OP's us time.)

by Anonymousreply 307November 13, 2019 5:11 PM

R195 You'd be surprised how many published writers do just that. That's what editors are for. You think editors do nothing? Why would they have a job then?

by Anonymousreply 308November 13, 2019 6:30 PM

But it's not reasonable to the guy who just wants to write. That's why OP needs to get out and find somebody who wants the same things in a relationship.

by Anonymousreply 309November 13, 2019 7:56 PM

OP / Pinkmartini,

Serves you right for abandoning your thread.

Lots of weirdos on DL with personality disorders that will pretend to be you.

by Anonymousreply 310November 14, 2019 2:04 AM

This thread is bifurcating messily.

Our answers would be simpler if the partner were pursuing a less-pretentious but equally time-consuming hobby.

by Anonymousreply 311November 14, 2019 2:11 AM

The Spaz Troll took over this thread most convincingly at R180, as he has done many times before when an OP abandoned a thread while it was still getting plenty of interest. He even mentioned Harry Styles to give you a clue, but none of you realised and kept on engaging with him. There is no conflict about vacations. The OP and his partner seem to be in the legal profession so they'd have plenty of money for holidays and retreats/classes.

by Anonymousreply 312November 14, 2019 2:16 AM

Not all of us have heard of the Spaz Troll. I realized something was off by how truculent his posts became.

by Anonymousreply 313November 14, 2019 2:19 AM

The Spaz Troll is notorious here. He often pounces on threads that have been left hanging, and impersonates the OP. If you search, there are threads about him.

by Anonymousreply 314November 14, 2019 2:38 AM

Here -

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by Anonymousreply 315November 14, 2019 2:39 AM

Thanks for posting the threads. I think I've missed him because I don't usually look at celebrity threads.

What a jerk.

by Anonymousreply 316November 14, 2019 2:46 AM

My advice to the OP's partner is to self publish as soon as possible on Amazon. As a paralegal he can afford to get someone to edit the manuscript. If he doesn't get much interest, he'll most likely forget all about it.

by Anonymousreply 317November 14, 2019 3:00 AM

Yes, he needs to have his publishing cork popped. It either inspires or deflates the hopes of my writer friends.

by Anonymousreply 318November 14, 2019 5:32 AM

I agree it can happen. This UK-based screenwriter set up his own site, listing his own screenplays on the page -- and actually sold a script that got made (starring z-lister and DL fave Steve Guttenberg!). And now he's offering to list other's scripts as well.

You can check out his site at this reddit link, and even read some of his scripts. He proves the point (as he admits), your script can be 'full of typos', flashbacks, etc., and still get made. The thing he forgot to mention is...his writing pretty much sucks.

BUT...he sold one anyway, and is going for his dream.

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by Anonymousreply 319November 14, 2019 6:37 AM

R212 That's nice dear. But you are bragging and nobody here likes this, and I say this as someone who is European and a polyglot.

by Anonymousreply 320November 14, 2019 8:52 AM

r319 - that's actually pretty interesting.

Even though I follow such things, I hadn't heard of this guy and am interested in reading about him - thx.

So much of commercial success seems to be tied to an author doing a lot of promotion, it really does highlight what value a publisher brings to the table anymore since you can't even count on them to be gatekeepers for quality anymore.

There are numerous sites where people post scripts and manuscripts for both review and sale. I wonder whether a market or exchange could be more efficient for authors.

by Anonymousreply 321November 14, 2019 2:05 PM

People have to be what they are. You and your partner aren't compatible in certain ways but what you should do is clear the air and tell him (don't worry about "how") what you think about his writing and how it's affecting your relationship. Hear what he has to say about it. Maybe your relationship will survive, or not. You both have to communicate on this matter. Personally, I don't think you don't sound very compatible. Maybe it's time to find out.

By the way, if you're so good at grammar, punctuation, etc., why don't you help him out and proofread his stuff? Maybe you could also give him pointers on construction or how to improve other things. Maybe you could try co-writing. Who knows? If you're cooperative and supportive of what he wants to do, maybe he will suddenly become much more supportive of the things you want to do (such as traveling).

by Anonymousreply 322November 14, 2019 2:29 PM

Does your boyfriend know about gerunds?

And about how verbs can be morphed into nouns such as "deplorable".

And about passive pluperfect like "embolden".

by Anonymousreply 323November 14, 2019 9:57 PM

OP, you are right. Your partner is shredding some abysmal prose in the neighboring thread.

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by Anonymousreply 324November 14, 2019 10:02 PM

How is the love, OP?

by Anonymousreply 325December 10, 2019 7:43 PM

So he didn't write his epic?

by Anonymousreply 326December 10, 2019 11:26 PM

I used to think markets could work, but widespread publishing requires a few gatekeepers to filter through the wannabes. There are more mediocre wannabe writers out there than you can imagine-- and plenty of writing teachers and workshops they can waste time in.

by Anonymousreply 327February 11, 2020 2:46 AM

Encouraging pursuing a passion and interest is one thing - blatantly lying about the economic potential of a career is another. Partners are honest sounding boards. I will encourage pursuits that are good and have no down side. But if there is a downside - ex, having no money for decades and no gainful employment - then it’s only fair to be honest about that.

by Anonymousreply 328February 11, 2020 4:16 AM

True R327 they wind up teaching at art colleges, or running writing workshops. Bruce Benderson is an excellent example of this. His short story or novel about Nancy Reagan going to a crack house full of drag queens was funny at the time it was written; but it never should have been published, and his other books are total narcissistic dreck, much like Edmund White's novels and memoirs.

by Anonymousreply 329February 11, 2020 4:34 PM
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