'The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel' Season 3

Season 1 & 2 thread.

You would think they are filming "Lawrence Of Arabia 2" for how long it takes to get a new season.

What? I just started Season 2 and I thought I was just a few months late.

It's out, it's out, it's out!

First episode was amazing. This show is tracking shot porn and that element more than anything keeps me glued to the screen. That new Chinese gal is great, the Desi Arnaz clap joke was outstanding, Jane Lynch being hilarious.... man, I missed this. They finally address the issue of their enormous wealth, which has been bugging me for two seasons now. Feels like the showrunners are listening to the feedback.

Can't wait to watch the rest. And Luke Kirby remains 😍.

Huh r2? Season 2 and Season 3 are coming out exactly a year apart. It wasn't delayed at all.

The second season was horrible. It focused on her father way too much, and a lot of the set-ups did not have enough payoff. And I was tired of the whole world being in love with the main character. It became tiresome. Here's hoping season 3 is better than the previous season.

r6 Agreed, I didn't care much for the second season at all. Felt like it crawled up its own ass at times. But it's been a year and I've started wanting to lose myself in that world again. So far, so good.

I tried to like this show but I just could not get into it. I liked Tokyo Girl much better.

This show is terrible. Maybe I'm not Jewish enough to get it.

I like to watch it because of the clothes and apartments, but the main problem is that Mrs. Maizel isn’t funny.

R10, I agree Mrs Maisel isn’t funny. And she is one of those plucky characters that make me stabby: Carrie Bradshaw, Leslie Knope, Laura Ingalls, Trudy from Mad Men... I like the lesbian gal, though.

Watching for Luke Kirby.

It's hard to write super funny and edgy stand up in a show where the rest of the dialogue is already supposed to be funny.

Is Luke Kirby doing any other stuff? God, that man turns me on like no one else on TV right now.

[R11] Yes, she is not only plucky, but overly and unrealistically competent. But when she walks, she has no grace and goes clomping around with her head thrust forward like a battering ram.

The costumes are FABULOUS, as always.

Mama Rose would be my ideal woman if I were straight.

The costumes on this show are UNREAL. Mama Rose's are my favourite. Loving her storyline as well. Providence, Oklahoma! 😅

This one by Midge is just outrageously cute.

Great first season, atrocious second ...

I agree with R9. The show is way too heavily invested in the religion of the characters', to a point where it gets alienating and awkward. And, at least for me, what makes it worse is that the lead actress is (and other players are) so obviously not Jewish, so it comes across as over the top. I am waiting for Mike Myer's to show up in his Linda character from Coffee Talk.

They went to the temple once last season. Pretty sure none of them are all that observant, least of all Midge who just seems to be an atheist. It's more about the American Jewish culture, rather than Judaism as religion.

Jewish Oil Tycoons? Is that based on some real families or is this going to be like the Norwegian Catholics?

If you saw the woman responsible for it at the Emmys, you'd know why it's so over the top.

According to my (Jewish) grandmother, a lot of the Jewish stuff is just inaccurate or overly glamorized, e.g., the Catskill scene was mostly for middle class and blue collar Jews from the outer boroughs, not for people like the Maisels.

Transparent is oddly enough the only show that most actual Jews feel gets Jewish culture in America correct.

Jewish Oil Tycoons are a thing. Fascinating.

Wait I haven’t even watch season 2 yet . Is it any good or can I just skipped it?

Thanks R23. Interesting read.

r24 You'll be confused, story-wise. I didn't think the second season was that bad, it was just... a lot. Though that guy at the Catskills, Nolan Gerard Funk, more than made up for it, in my view. 😏

DL fave NGF, bathing in Madrid for some reason.

This fucking print, omg! And that actress is wonderful.

"We're the whitest people on the planet" - always appreciate the writers being self-aware and gracious enough to acknowledge some of the criticism, albeit jokingly.

R20, ok I retract what I said in R19. You are definitely right that they don't focus on the actual practice of their religion. I was using the term Judaism culturally. Judaism confuses me some due to it primarily being a religion and also a cultural grouping. So, with that said, it's way too fucking Jewy culturally.

Strangely enough, that doesn't bother me here in the same way it bothered me on Transparent. Maybe because the characters here are - for the most part - lovable doofuses, rather than narcissistic nightmare people like on Transparent.

They did lean into the conversion arc last season, though even that was played for laughs and they seemed to have toned that down this season and have humanised that character beyond her thirst to fit in and be a Jewish baby basket (I complained about her arc last year). But I'm three episodes in, so we'll see if that holds.

Unrelated, but would it be wrong of me to say I enjoy seeing them downscale this season? It has nothing to do with them being Jewish; it was just outrageous the way they lived on a math professor's salary, and the critics and the audiences had been pointing that out for two seasons now. The fact that Rose Maisel is independently wealthy is a cute little cop out, though even that wasn't an instant solution we'd been led to believe it would be.

For as much as she hates her kids, they're perfectly behaved. Lying in bed while the sun's still out?

Apart from that moment, they seem pretty bratty to me.

Can you believe this is Whatsherface from Gilmore Girls? 🤯

I’m halfway through s3e2 and I am completely disappointed. The show is pretty to look at for sure, and the snappy dialogue is fun. The show is like cotton candy—pretty, fluffy, sweet, and then POOF it all fizzles into goo and air. There just isn’t enough story here. Episode one featured two full songs by the musician. I fast forwarded through the second. (Why? Does this become important later?) I feel like the writers were just filing out index cards with scenes that they stitched together and designed around without any real point. Annoying.

And yeah, Midge’s standup is not funny. And her personality isn’t funny. I was charmed by past seasons, but so far this is totally flat for me. Maybe I am just not in the mood.

I don’t care that they’re Jewish. Someone—an older black woman—I know IRL has told me she couldn’t get into the show because the humor was “too ethnically Jewish” for her to relate to. I don’t buy that. I am a 41 year-old white guy and I love Blackish, I loved Empire for a while, love Queen Sugar. A good story and good writing transcends cultures; they’re not hampered by them.

r34 Why did you fast forward when he has such a pleasant singing voice? 😕

I won't spoil anything, but I'm loving these romances that are developing. How refreshing and the characters actually aren't assholes for a change. And yet another instance of showrunners listening to the feedback. The tour makes it possible to present different audiences in different states and whew, that Vegas audience. Although I did laugh at the fact that the Parisian audience last season "got" her faster than the Vegas one. Oy vey, les Américaines...

R35 I fast forwarded because I don’t watch this show for a musical concert. It took me out of the show. The writing is all over the place like a pinball.

Yeah, what’s with these musical numbers that never end? And then having Sterling sing as well, why? Is it all just filler?

It builds an atmosphere and gives non-white characters more airtime. I enjoy it, personally. Sterling's singing wasn't that great, though.

r33 - It's Liza Weil. She played Paris Geller in Gilmore Girls.

Shy's voice is dubbed by the Broadway actor Darius de Haas. I wrote that they wrote a special song ("One Less Angel") for the first episode just to be his hit song that everyone knows, and also another girl group song ("Bottle of Pop") for his back-up singers--they were both terrific and sounded very much like the Brill Building hits of the time.

This season most of the fun stuff is with Midge and Suzy on tour, with some okay stuff with Joel and his new Chinese-American love interest (who has a ponytail like Pat Suzuki), and the stuff with Midge's parents is incredibly boring. It's all yelling and complaining--I felt embarrassed for the actors, Tony Shalhoub and Marin Hinkle.

They FINALLY explain why Midge's parents have such a fabulous East Side apartment and why she has such an unbelievable wardrobe (Midge's mother has been providing most of the family income with money from a trust fund--it turns out she's an oil heiress from Oklahoma).

Well that was an interesting twist about the singer, almost justifies all the musical filler scenes in this season. I wonder if he’s supposed to be a Johnny Mathis stand in. It’s weird how they will sometimes use period people, and take great liberty with them, like they do with the Lenny Bruce character and then make up others.

Do you think Mrs. Maisel’s writers think that her standup comedy material is legitimately funny standup?

Everyone I know agrees that the show is cute and fun and pretty, and that it’s peculiar that the show’s whole basis is this uproariously hilarious young woman who is not funny at all.

Except one person. I work with a young woman who swears that she laughs out loud at Midge’s standup. This young woman is a super-super-super Third Wave feminist/social justice warrior with a graduate degree from a very elite university, and she talks about being Jewish a lot. Maybe it really is just a cultural divide. Can any Jewish people here or, if you’re here, Lena Dunham chime in and explain the comedic sensibility that is lost on most viewers?

I laugh at some of her standup stuff but most of it is just slightly amusing.

[quote] It’s weird how they will sometimes use period people, and take great liberty with them, like they do with the Lenny Bruce character and then make up others.

Not so weird. They can use whichever dead people they want because you cannot libel the dead--thus they used Lenny Bruce and Mary Ann Mobley. But since Johnny Mathis is living and could sue for libel, they made up Shy Baldwin.

I have a minor quibble with R27’s photo. Goddamn that looks like Brooklyn outside the window. And the taps are labeled in English.

Sorry. Carry on...

Moms Mobley was really funny. I laughed at that but not at all for Mrs. Masel. Part of it is the cliched Jewish schtick which we’ve heard a million times, but maybe it was original in the 1950’s.

[Quote]They finally address the issue of their enormous wealth, which has been bugging me for two seasons now. Feels like the showrunners are listening to the feedback.

Yes, scene in the first ep where Rose is explaining how they can afford to live so lavishly off a professor's salary was basically talking to the audience. Alright, we heard you saying this doesn't make sense so here you go.

I think making Mrs Maisel's routines really funny is impossible because comedy is of the time. And the stuff she would be talking about back then would be pretty tame today. I think the point is not that she's especially funny, but it's shocking stuff for a woman of the time.

I think this season was better than average. All the good stuff was there, the costumes, the sets, the one-liners, but some of it is a little over the top. Her parents have become cartoons at this point. Joel talks waaaaay too fast. He always sounds like a wacky sitcom neighbor.

Jane Lynch was pretty genius this season. Although a little much. and Suzy is a work of art. Alex Borstein deserves the emmy, the oscar, the tony and every other award for her portrayal. Her home situation is very clever too.

I hate that they keep taking success away from her just to keep the series going. It's the same thing that they do on Silicon Valley. Really annoying.

That final show Midge did at the Apollo was an obvious clue. I knew as soon as she said "Chiffon," she was getting fired. Too bad, because it would have set up an interesting dynamic on the tour.

And the Lenny Bruce stuff this season was a huge waste of time. Made no sense at all. A lot of filler there.

Almost every time I laughed was cause of Borstein and it was a lot.

Just watched the Vegas episode, the actor who plays Joel has a surprisingly tight body. Was nice to have him hanging around in his underwear for a scene.

Just watched the first episode and clearly they've been reading the reviews questioning how the Maisels lived like that on that on a professor's salary.

The magical appearance of Rose's trust fund seems like a major stretch but it's not like the series is presented as historical fiction as much as a fantasy/fairy tale

^^Blanking on her maiden name, which is not Maisel, but how her parents lived like that.

It makes sense that Rose comes from money IMO. I didn't find that a stretch, though it being an oil family in Oklahoma was an unusual twist.

Less a complete stretch R53 than something they tacked on to address the critics--it comes form out of the blue, had it been something they'd thought through when conceiving the show, they would have referenced it from the start.

I assumed from the first couple seasons that the mom came from money. I thought it was hinted at, wasnt it? She also acted like she previously came from money.

Zachary Levi’s Benjamin delivered a rant that was the hottest thing I have seen since Sean Patrick Maloney’s takedown of Gordon Sondland.

Agree^

An interesting ending--homosexuality and homophobic jokes play into it. I'm not sure what to make of it, since the homophobic jokes are made by Mrs. Maisel. They're not that bad, but it was an interesting way to go.

It seems like it's set up for Zachary Levi to be a major love interest again next season (he's in the last two episodes).

The Borscht Belt humor with Midge's and Joel's parents was really hard to take this season, although Kevin Pollack always surprises me with how good he is.

The season is worth seeing just for the spectacular clothes Marin Hinkle and her friend Veanne Cox wear at the beautiful tea room they meet at. I could not remember who Veanne Cox was, and then I realized she plays the woman at Elaine's office who heckles Jerry's stand-up in a memorable "Seinfeld" episode. She's actually got great comic timing.

I was amazed the season never explains what happened to Rose's money. She never actually signs anything back in Oklahoma refusing the money from her trust fund, so it makes no sense that when she regrets having the hissy fit in front of the family trustees she doesn't get her regular money anyway. If she signed nothing new, she should still get the money.

[SPOILERS - for those late to the party]

Finished it just now. Stellar six episodes and then... just sorta runs out of energy. The seventh episode and three quarters of the season finale are a slog with some truly bizarre writing choices. Personally, I loved the ending. The moment she said "his closet is ENORMOUS" I knew she was in trouble. Loved seeing Wanda Sykes and that woman's dance before Shy started singing was performed and shot so damn well. The showrunners are quickly becoming the unrivalled masters of TV choreography; I can't believe some of the technical shit they manage to pull off sometimes.

That stare-off and the dance with Luke Kirby with the Spanish music in the background is one of the sexiest things I have ever seen on television. Man, I sure hope I get to dance with a guy one day; it felt electrifying just watching that. 😊 Though can someone explain why he didn't want to have sex with her in the end? Their chemistry is always off the charts!

The bris scene was a bit risky though still funny, and I loved the Tennessee Williams appearance in the background earlier on. What I loved most about this season is the sheer diversity on display and centering non-white perspectives - the Apollo and the barber scenes were stunning because of that. Can you imagine how exclusively white this show would have been just ten years ago? And how much more boring it would be because of that?

Next season, I want more of that Chinese-American gal, more Mom Maisel being independent, more gay stuff, and Joel delivering all his lines shirtless. That man has spectacular tits.

Oh, and every single scene with Jane Lynch was GOLD. Too good and I'll miss her going forward.

Was Phyllis Schlafly really that awful? Was she anti-gay as well? Did DL celebrate when she kicked it in 2016?

Phyllis Schlafly really was that awful. She lived so long that she was mostly forgotten when she died, but she more or less was the person most responsible for stopping the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment in the late 1970s.

I was a bit baffled by the hipsterish "Miami After Dark" television show with the Hugh Hefner like host, and with Lenny Bruce hanging out with Zsa Zsa Gabor and Bella Abzug (!!!) and saying obscenities on television. Was there really a TV show like that?

r62 Thanks. Isn't there a show coming up about her, with Cate Blanchett? I sure hope they don't glamorise her after hearing that.

Some of the characters like Imogene and Astrid seem like Amy Palladino thought them out as "adorable" on paper, but they're really mostly tedious. I would like both of them written out. Astrid's husband Archie is kind of sexy, though, although he seems like Joel II.

They do seem partial to those cartoonish side characters. I was fine with them on Gilmore Girls, but they do stick out more on this show.

[quote]Though can someone explain why he didn't want to have sex with her in the end? Their chemistry is always off the charts!

He did, but it was Midge that put on the breaks. He’s got the door open to his room, but she then tells him she needs to find a cab. She was probably thinking on the conversation she had with the female bandleader earlier.

That was the best episode of the season. Whenever they get Kirby onscreen, the energy just goes electric.

r67 See, that's exactly why I was so confused – to me, it clearly looked like Midge was eager, but he was hesitant and so she didn't want to push it further. And his exasperated "maybe one day" felt like the writers wanted to drive home that it's he who wasn't up for it. Also, why would Midge put on the breaks? She was divorced and not seeing anyone. If I recall from the first season, his character was married, though I think he got divorced later as well. Perhaps he just likes playing around and was afraid she'd start thinking this was going to be more than that, eventually ruining their professional relationship.

[quote]Whenever they get Kirby onscreen, the energy just goes electric.

Yes, this. Exactly why I'm invested in that scene so much. It is insane how well they play off each other. And I'm mainly frustrated because we didn't get to see him shirtless. Gods, that man is going to be in my dreams for weeks to come. What a beauty.

[quote]Gods, that man is going to be in my dreams for weeks to come. What a beauty.

Check out The Deuce or Tell Me You Love Me.

r69 Thanks, I was just about to ask where I can see more of him!

R68- In SAY YOU LOVE ME-Luke Kirby shows his ASS and his BALLS while he's fucking a girl. I find him really appealing too.

Who thinks that next season will have a time jump of a couple of years?

[quote]Thanks, I was just about to ask where I can see more of him!

On The Deuce he plays a city official working for Mayor Koch in 70s-80s New York trying to clean up Times Square. His character is a closet case who regularly hits the baths before going home to his family in the suburbs.

Overall it’s a great show but very different from Maisel, obviously,

You want more Luke Kirby AND one of the best TV shows that no one know about? Rectify.

r72 Agreed, a time jump would make perfect sense as everyone is off starting their own new endeavour. I want to see Midge struggle a bit for the next few years, but I also want to see Susie succeed, so... I'm conflicted.

r74 He was on Rectify?! Well, shit, I've been wanting to check that show out for ages now. Guess I have no more excuses now.

I was fairly lukewarm on the first four episodes, but episode 5 is fantastic. The Miami After Dark taping, the club, the nighttime stroll, Rose and Shirley fighting in the street, Sophie rehearsing Strindberg, Susie at the pool—this episode had everything.

The fifth episode was my favourite. Sophie literally acting out the tennis advice, asking who the third actor in her three-person play was, then opening and closing the door to recall what that felt like... amazing.

Believably acting out bad acting is tough, so kudos to Jane Lynch. And her acting partner looked so good with the beard - a bit like David Harbour. "Trod the boards much?" 😂

[quote]And her acting partner looked so good with the beard - a bit like David Harbour. "Trod the boards much?"

Cary Elwes, whonwas on Stranger Things this season with Harbour.

Omg, you're right! Small world.

As a Jew, I find the Jewish indulgence inconsistent. Some of the stuff they get right to a T (Midge's parents, for one), but other things are a weirdly goyish view of the life of a JAP. As for Midge's standup, I think the reason it fails is because it's relatively unremarkable today. In the 50's it would have been interesting and funny, but watching it from the viewpoint of a person living in 2019 makes it look boring and unoriginal. It's the same shtick every white twenty-something female standup comedian does today.

Honestly, I think the standup was just a means to an end, plot wise. It's a way to get Midge to leave both Joel and her JAP, Upper-East-Side-Housewife existence behind. Face it, without the standup, Midge doesn't really have any interesting autonomy to her character.

Whatever, either way, I love watching the show, if not for the Maisel's routine then for the art direction. As everybody says, the sets and the costumes are gorgeous. Despite how the quality of the writing has gone from great to meh, a lot of people behind the scenes clearly care a helluva lot about how the show looks. It's stunning.

The lighting on this show is gorgeous as well; I gasped during one lunch scene at Joel's parents' place. So much attention to detail for something that ended up lasting only a couple of minutes.

And the crowd scenes in the first and the last episode... remarkable.

[quote] The lighting on this show is gorgeous as well; I gasped during one lunch scene at Joel's parents' place.

Mary!

No Mary, lighting just happens to be my favourite technical aspect in movies and TV shows and so I pay the most attention to it, that's all.

***gasp!***

Okay. 🙄

The last four episodes are so much better than the first four. Good season ending. Miriam deserved what she got.

Shy Baldwin is patterned after Johnny Mathis, right? There's that one pivotal scene with Midge and Shy that brings it all together.

Finished. I thought this season was definitely stronger than Season 2 which was a little shaky, makes me optimistic about the show moving forward.

I know this show is a comedy, but given the large cast of black characters this season I wish it would have touched a little more plight of black Americans in this time period. I appreciated the line where Shy has to explain to Midge that they aren't allowed to stay in the same hotel as she does.

Man, during her set at the Apollo I knew repercussions were coming. There were definitely many coded gay jokes, this is an era where being gay was a a mental disorder, an arrestable offense and just something that will absolutely ruin your life. Not something she can joke around about even in a cutesy way.

It was good to see Zachary Levi show up again, and he killed his confrontation with Maisel. Really affecting stuff and you completely get where the guy was coming form.

Also, I was largely bored of the Abe subplot. I've never found the character as interesting as the show obviously does.

I've got no clue what's going on with Abe at this point. He was an armchair communist for most of the season and he's now... an aspiring theatre critic? Have I got that right?

All those scenes of him trying to make a communist newspapers with the wannabe beatniks could have been cut as far as I am concerned.

Aw, those were some of the funniest scenes for me. "We'll go to Cuba; camp outside his house."

"They spelled New York with a C?!" 😂

Several posters have commented that the Maisels live on the Upper East Side. Totally wrong and completely misses the demographics of NYC in this eral. The Upper West Side would be where upper middle class Jews lived. The Upper East Side, at this time would have been mostly gentiles at this time.

Both areas were very attractive to the wealthy, but a vast divide culturally and ethnically

Also, Abe was a tenured professor at Columbia, which supplied the lavish apartment. Columbia is on the Upper West Side, 116th, just south of Harlem

Um, he worked at Columbia and it was faculty housing a plot point beaten to death this season, who could be confused?

While that seems obvious to some r92, a lot of the audience watching it probably has never been to NY or is very familiar with its neighborhoods so it could be an easy mistake for someone to conflate the UES with the UWS.

For those who don't understand, think Mike NIchols and rich neurotics vs. Truman Capote and his "swans"

Seemed like a waste of Liza Weil. I wonder if she had more content that got cut.

[quote] Also, Abe was a tenured professor at Columbia, which supplied the lavish apartment. Columbia is on the Upper West Side, 116th, just south of Harlem

Not all of Columbia's housing was on the UWS. They also owned housing on the UES.

Rocky Start, but the final few episodes were great

Interesting, I found the first half way stronger than the second one.

Here's one of my favourite visual gags.

Suzy is my fav character---and like R49, I get more laughs out of her misadventures/predicaments than with anyone else. How absurd was it when she carried that toilet plunger around the camp woods, somehow convincing everyone she worked there as a plumber? Or paying a visit to that over the top snobbish bitch Sophie Lennon and then scoring a tiny fur coat? Borstein doesn't even have to talk, she's that funny.

This season she gambles away a lot of Midge's money and (hopefully) can pay it all back from the insurance money after she set her mom's house on fire--- but what about the rest of the money? She and those affable murdering oafs will no doubt meet up again.

As for Midge, as pretty as she is, she has an almost irritating bounce about her that can be annoying --plus she whines a lot. Like some posters mentioned above, how could Midge be so stupid and insensitive as to even hint that Shy was gay when she did that Apollo gig. Didn't she understand that Shy trusted her with his "secret"? He was genuinely fond of her.

The sister in law, Astrid is just dumb---her and Abe both get on my nerves. I like how Moishe constantly needles him though. Anyway, enough of Abe already and more of Rose!

Did anything else think Rose would get that seat on the managing board and start learning business? I would have loved that arc. Though of course, that would necessarily mean she'd have to stay in Providence, Oklahoma, so that's probably a non-starter.

for those enjoying the Joel's tight little body and seething sexuality, he was on broadway in "the view from the bridge" with smokin Mark Strong and perpetual DL favorite (lol) Russel Tovey

*anyone else

r103 That's hot.

[quote] Did anything else think Rose would get that seat on the managing board and start learning business? I would have loved that arc. Though of course, that would necessarily mean she'd have to stay in Providence, Oklahoma, so that's probably a non-starter.

She wouldn't have to stay in Providence. She could fly in for board meetings.

Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. Money for constant flights back and forth obviously wouldn't be an issue.

[quote]for those enjoying the Joel's tight little body and seething sexuality

Joel and “seething sexuality” are not even in the same area code.

If they think Maisel and her gay manager saying "we got fucked" and "shit" so many times will add to reality of the show, the writers are wrong.

The last thing I think the show needs is a plot about Rose in Oklahoma learning the oil business. That sounds even worse and more detached than Abe's communist newsletter subplot I had to deal with this season.

R103 God, call me crazy but I've found Michael inexplicably and immensely sexy since I saw the Maisel pilot. He's got a great, tight body for a short guy, and there's this weirdly suave boyish charm about him that makes you wanna roll around in the sheets with him. He's a major cutie and a dork in real life, which just adds to making me swoon. I really hope this opens doors for him, I'd love to see him in more things, preferably sans clothing.

Joel is a hot piece of ass.

I still don't get why Abe would ever want anything to do with communism. It doesn't make any sense. I get that the parents are fan favorites, but between this and Rose's paris plot in the last season they're wasting too much time on these asides with Miriam's parents and not enough time on Miriam.

your mileage may vary,, but nipguys would hit the gas

Jesus.

r109 I disagree. Anything but this society lady she's playing right now. I mean, what even is this - hooking people up? So boring. I want to see her busting sexism and the patriarchy in a professional environment, ffs.

From the looks of it Michael has a nice ass on him. These pants aren't the most flattering, but still, you can tell it's got a nice shape and roundness to it.

Joel doesn't do it for me, despite the nice pecs. He's too whiny and too short, and he's not that handsome.

I'd do his friend Archie or Zachary Levi, however.

Archie is a cute bottom.

R117 Levi's fugly and Christian, but Joel Johnston can be hot from the right angle. Both of them are boring looking to me, though, so maybe I'm biased.

I’ve made it through four episodes. Three and four were better than one and two, or else I’ve just gotten back into the groove of it, or else I am just in a more accepting state of mind watching it. I did like the Las Vegas experience compared with what came before it. And wow, does Joel have some well-waxed big ol’ knockers.

I had a little Archie crush this season and hoped he’d get lonely and go and snuggle in bed with Joel.

Want to live in the Maisel's family apartment? Would cost you 9 mil to buy.

All I see when I look at Mrs. Maisel is transgender Twitter warrior Ms. Clymer and it is very distracting.

All I see is an Irish girl trying to be Jewish.

They say her mother is Jewish so it's fine.

R124 The only thing Jewish about Lea Michele is her nose. Other than that she's pretty much just an Italian catholic. She was raised catholic but has fooled everybody into thinking she's Jewish through her failed crackpot plan to convince the world she's the next Barbra Streisand.

Rachael Brosnahan is not of jewish ancestry on either side of her family r125. She is very much a goy playing a jewish character.

Lea Michele has never claimed to be Jewish. Her character on Glee was Jewish. She does idolize Barbra Streisand but it's not cause of her religion or heritage. Its cause they are of the same musical theater music mold.

Uh, Lea Michele's dad is jewish. She was raised catholic in terms of religion, but in terms of ancestry she absolutely has jewish ancestry.

r127 Thanks, someone told me that in the Theatre Gossip thread a couple of months ago and then actually had the temerity to call me an idiot while he was at it. I swear that thread features the worst of the worst.

She seems to justify it by having had attending hundreds of Temple events in her life, which means she went to a bar mitzvah or two.

We will be redefining Judaism today so all bets are off.

"President Trump will sign an executive order defining Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion."

Yup, she'll get an honorary citizenship from Bibi et voilà – certified Jew!

R117/R118/R119/R121

Archie and his tits.

Archie and his tits 2.

R134 135 Are these from his Chaturbate channel!

I thought she is half Jewish, too. Interesting that they cast someone who isn’t. Kind of surprising in the entertainment industry.

^^^I prefer Archie's tits to Joel's tits.^^^

R136, reply at R138 was for you.

Joel's tatas are meatier.

I don't know, R140, that's pretty tasty looking titty at R135.

I love this pic of the boys on their way to the Emmys together. Joel is married, to an Asian, so I don’t know why they went as each other’s dates.

Okay, Imgur is getting outrageous - you now need to sign in to view the pic at r135 because it's apparently "erotic." 😩

I see enough from the preview, though.

R143, this one works better.

An Asian man, R142?

They sure hang out a lot.

Jane Lynch gets the BEST lines this season. "Desi Arnaz gave me the clap!" Ha!!

Once again, Alex Borstein triumphs. She brings it all!! And it's so great to see towards the end of Season 3 that she can be vulnerable. What a great character, what a great actress.

I love watching Midge's mother. She is so well styled in the show. If I were a 1950s/60s woman, I would want to look like her.

And Joel, if you are reading this, stop by my place. I can do SO much more for you than that wise-ass Chinese girl.

Renewed, of course.

Some of you may not have recognized her, but the woman in the tea salon with the unmarried daughter was Veanne Cox who has done a lot of Broadway work. She was Amy in the first Broadway revival of Company, produced by Roundabout and Rose in Caroline or Change.

I had wished in the 90s that they would have done a biopic about Carol Burnett and had Veanne Cox play Carol.

r149 Yes, she's one of those actors who look so familiar, but most people can't quite place them. I've never seen a Broadway production, but I do recall seeing her on TV. Though I've just been scrolling through her IMDb credits and I don't recall watching any of those shows, aside from Sex and the City. Hmmm.

Omg, I've just identified the source of my confusion - I had her mixed up with Olivia Williams! 😄

r151, here's where you've seen Veanne Cox.

I had forgotten she was in Erin Brockovitch.

r153 Nope, never seen anything featured in that video apart from Erin Brockovich, though that was more than a decade ago and I've forgotten everything about it. I've just realised it wasn't just Olivia WIlliams; I also had her confused with Susanna Thompson. So I'm all clear now on who's who.

*Sorry, not Susanna Thompson, the other Borg Queen - Alice Krige! I'm just all over the place today.

I need to go back and watch the end of season 2.....I thought it was shown then that Shy was gay. I was confused as to why Midge was in the dark about it in season 3. I didn't love this season, way too cute but I tire of most shows as they drag on for too many seasons. I do love her ex's parents though..his mom and Midge's mom are the funniest characters imo.

I think Shy is a combination of Harry Belafonte and Little Richard.

Shy is Johnny Mathis. Totally.

Right r158. Shy was very obviously inspired by Johnny Mathis.

[quote]I need to go back and watch the end of season 2.....I thought it was shown then that Shy was gay.

Shy was barely in Season 2, but there were definitely no gay references. Season 3 though dropped a lot of hints he was gay before it was officially revealed.

[quote] I do love her ex's parents though..his mom and Midge's mom are the funniest characters imo.

Agreed. I love Joel's parents and was happy for the Abe and Rose living with them storyline because it gave them nice screen time. I think the actors are hilarious.

Also I like the Joel girlfriend character, Mei I believe. I thought the actress had a lot of charisma.

Is this worth watching? One word answers only please.

I liked this season more than I liked the second, but still not as much as the first. I instantly loved season one because NYC of the 50s and 60s was almost like a character in the show, and it reminded me of the New York of my youth, although I am not really that old. But the city seemed to be gritty and full of possibilities. Now? The whole flavor of NY has gone missing from the show. Despite the fact that many scenes took place in Stage Deli, it didn’t conjur the right atmosphere.

I have a few other problems with the show. Mrs M’s standup routine is simply not funny. Can’t they get someone to just write the routines, so they feel fresh and somewhat different than the rest of the dialogue? I know we’re judging her jokes through a present-day filter, but it should still be possible to have a routine that is funny, instead of inane and dull.

I also simply do not like a lot of the characters, and don’t want to spend time with them, particularly her father. Shalhoub might be a great actor, but his character is annoying. The show runners seem to think he is much more charming than I do.

Also: what’s with all the music? Did we really need to hear one song sung in its entirety twice? A lot of it felt like a time-filler.

BUT: The clothes. Wow. Almost every outfit is a stunner, and I continued watching just to see them. I am surprised that they did not influence any designers, especially someone like Marc Jacobs, whose designs sometimes skirt around that aesthetic. I bet someone will be influenced by it next season.

[Quote] I know we’re judging her jokes through a present-day filter, but it should still be possible to have a routine that is funny, instead of inane and dull

No. Either you give the character a routine that feels truthful for the 50s/60s and have people complain that it feels "dull". Or you hire comedy writers that will give a routine that feels fresh to a 2019 audience, but completely is out of place for comedy in the time period.

At the end of the day you have to accept it is a period piece, and the comedy is biting and fresh comedy....for the time!

It can feel truthful to that period, R163, and still be funny. I thought the Moms Mabley routine was funny. Mrs Maisel's routines are simply not funny or clever.

That's the problem I have with the show: her comic material is deadly. It just isn't funny. And yet it's played as though everyone finds her hilarious. Her standup routines are scripted by tv writers instead of joke writers and it shows.

And why is she the great savior to everyone? She's barely human, she's so wonderful and shining and near-perfect.

Midge's family's apartment is clearly on the Upper West Side, I think they mention it and you see Imogene and Midge walking in Riverside Park more than once.

I see Midge as sort of a fabulous monster--she's charismatic, witty and has no filters when she gets going. She's also pretty willing to sacrifice anybody for her ambition--this season it was Shy, but she's been doing a number on her kids from the get-go. She's not a bad mother when she's with them, but her ambition comes first--which is pretty brutal when kids are that young.

I think under all the pretty clothing, amazing production values (the lighting, those tracking shots) and cute set-ups is a pretty sharp commentary on what it takes to become a star--particularly for a woman at the time Midge Maisel is coming through. While she doesn't have the envious woman thing that Joan Rivers had, she has Joan's boundary crossing and her lack of filter that caused Joan to fall out with numerous people over the years. She's also a bit like Kathy Griffin that way. Sherman-Palladino grew up around comics and even though the show is seriously inconsistent when it comes to historical accuracy, I think she's pretty on point when it comes to the mindset of comics.

I don't think it's necessary for us to find Midge's stand-up funny--I think we need to believe that her audiences would find her funny and outrageous. Which is why there's an actor rather than a comedienne or musical-comedy type in the main part.

The defense of her unfunny standup by virtue of it being of the time doesn’t hold up for me because so much of the dialogue is not of the time. The characters regularly use contemporary vocabulary and turns of phrases, and that has been a major distraction for me throughout the whole series run, but I think it also keeps the series from feeling like a relic.

Unless I am crazy, one of the few common criticisms when the show was new was its tendency to script characters as if they are speaking today.

And:

“We didn’t want it to be precious or sepia-tone or have it feel like ‘This is your grandmother’s show,” co-creator Amy Sherman-Palladino said at Amazon’s For Your Consideration event for the Golden Globe winning comedy Saturday. “We wanted this journey, even though it was 1958, to feel energized and vibrant and for an 18-year-old to look at it and go, ‘I get that. And that is my story, too.'”

So if the excuse for poorly written comedy is that it’s of the period’s sensibility and yet the overall goal of the show is to be set in the period but not feel dated and to appeal to young sensibilities, then the creators are inexplicably aiming to have their cake and eat it, too.

I don’t know. Maybe the writers are afraid to write actual clever jokey commentary on the plights of domestic life for women because they’d risk being sued by the estates of Phyllis Diller and Joan Rivers. But the “it’s not funny cuz it’s old-timey!” excuse doesn’t convince me.

I enjoy her comedy and I've seen plenty of stand-up, so I wouldn't say I'm exactly easy to please. It's wholesome, delightful, but also feels dangerous for its time. Her stand-up makes me feel good, through I don't really treat it as central to the show.

Below: Specific dialogue anachronisms that prove the comedy excuse is just an excuse. It seems they just can’t find a way to script the humor of the day in a way that would have been funny then or now.

“ From the opening shot with Checker cabs through to the final frame, everything is visually perfect for 1958 – clothes, interiors. But then (at 1:42) Midge says, “This comedy thing – it has to work.” But that construction – “this _____ thing” with any noun in the blank – was all but unknown before the mid-sixties, and it didn’t become widely used until the 1980s.”

“Many other people have noticed the language anachronisms on this show. A twentysomething I know caught “touch base with.” My own list includes: reach out to, alternate universe, scam, low bar, talking trash, I’m fine with, out of the loop, perp walk, kick [some big-time comedy] ass, she has been killing it, wackadoodle, crunching the numbers.”

“ That’s especially true for people who were not around during the historical period in question. If you weren’t watching club performers in 1958, you might just assume that the emcee then, as now, would say, “Let’s give it up for. . .” And if you weren’t familiar with stand-up comedy from that period, you might assume that comics then would ask, as Mrs. Maisel does, “What’s up with that?”“

“ SUSIE: He wants to fuck you.

MIDGE: He wants me to work with him. He says we’ll be like Nichols and May. Nichols and May don’t fuck.

SUSIE Nichols and May totally fuck.

Nichols and May did in fact have a brief romantic involvement. But in 1958, nobody ”totally” fucked.”

I agree with R167. The comedy should be funny to us as well as the audience within the show, otherwise the illusion of her being a talent is shot.

And I very much agree that it's lazy to include contemporary sayings and dialogue in a show that's set 60 years ago. They go to great lengths to visually capture the time, so it's preposterous to then hear coming out of their mouths things we say today.

R170 That sort of lack of attention to detail seems common on Netflix and Amazon shows and far less common on HBO, Showtime, broadcast cable networks.

I think the problem with the comedy is that it strayed away from what it was in the first season: a 1950's housewife making fun of the 1950's housewife's life. It was funny, true, and a tiny bit sad. It made me believe that people would herald her as this amazing comic, because she was a woman making fun of what it was like to be a woman back then while simultaneously making a point that it wasn't okay. Then, they had her talk about her kids and her parents and boom, she's now just a female comic telling jokes that male comics of the time were doing better. They should have kept the commentary on 1950's American society in the comedy, but they sacrificed it for "Ey, my kids are so ugly" or "Ey, my parents are so Jewish". It's aggravating because it's like the life and the originality of the comedy has been drained due to fear of the comedy being too alienating so they started to have her tell jokes that Lenny Bruce was already making by then.

Obviously made by non-jews..

The scene when she was in the bathroom yelling “I’m literally starving” stuck out to me. Saying something is “literally” something came about in this century.

I also resent being told how wonderful a character is. Even that cranky, drunk painter (based on Pollack or deKooning?) fell in love with her. Really , all these bohemians are going to be groveling at the feet of a spoiled, self-indulgent upper east side housewife? Nothing she ever says or does is as remarkable as we are told it is. And I think she is bow-legged to boot, so she shouldn’t be in a bathing suit.

I'm an eldergay who remembers watching Phyllis Diller on talk shows. Here are two of her bits that I remember:

I wore one of those peek-a-boo dresses. Everyone peeked and then they booed.

Fang just doesn't do it for me anymore in the bedroom. The other night he was doing his pushups and I jumped under him.

I also remember Joan Rivers comparing her breasts to mosquito bites.

Yes, there was censorship, but in the late 1960s and 70s, tv allowed things to get through. So the writers for Midge should be able to come up with some better material.

And I'm tired of al the swearing they do. Everything is "Fuck this" and "Fuck that." I get that from Suzy, but Midge would have been brought up not to say those words in public. In her act, yes! In polite society, no!

They use “fuck” in lieu of humor. I think a good barometer for a sketch would be to say your jokes without once using profanity and see if they still hold up.

[quote]They use “fuck” in lieu of humor.

Very good point. I've noticed that in modern comics. They don't have the material to "shock" so they throw in a bunch of dirty words. But people have become immune to the "F" word so eventually they get more desperate and start throwing out offensive stuff in the hopes of shocking. And when did "shocking" take the place of true comedy. If you don't have funny things to say, why get up in front of people and run your mouth?

Just finished watching Season 3.

In no particular order:

* Agree with everyone about the musical numbers and Midge's comedy routines going on for too long--we get that she is supposed to be funny, we know Shy can sing and what shows of that era looked like. Those scenes just went on forever.

* We don't need to see Midge doing her comedy as much as we do, which would solve the funny or unfunny bits. Or at least let her jokes be relevant to something in the plot when we do see her.

* Speaking of jokes, they were telegraphing "OMFG she is outing Shy" during the routine in their usual ham-fisted way ("his closet is so big.. CLOSET--get it!!) so the ending was no surprise. I thought it was going to happen right after she got off stage actually.

* Moishe and Shirley are almost antisemitic stereotypes and have zero redeeming qualities. (It should also be noted that only Hasids give their kids Yiddish names and that even if he was born to immigrant parents who gave him a Yiddish name, he would have Americanized his name growing up here in the 20s and 30s. Ditto new grandson "Chaim Christian" -- which must have seemed like a funny joke...) But M&S are just unpleasant people who are meant to be counterpoints to Rose and Abe and have zero nuance. On top of that, it's hard to understand how someone as low key and balanced as Joel is their child.

* Also, why did they move to a big house now? Weren't they on the verge of bankruptcy in the last season?

* Speaking of Joel, the whole Chinatown/Chinese girlfriend thing seems thrown in to say "look! more diversity!" -- given that he was raising the kids while Midge was on the road, why would he take on the extra burden of opening his own club? More than that, when would he have time?

* Not going into Lenny Bruce's hotel room was also sort of a head scratcher--maybe she realized that it would not just a casual thing, that she really liked him? There is some serious chemistry there.

* Brosnahan is very Irish looking but Highland Park, where she grew up is to Chicago as Scarsdale or Short Hills are to New York, so she likely has a lot to call on in terms of being a rich Jewish girl.

* Worst Palladino-Sherman bit was the radio announce episode--yes, Amy, we got that there were all sorts of things that people in the 50s and 60s said and did and bought that seem crazy now (amphetamines! women pleasing husbands!) but wasting half the episode on it got old quickly.

* Still have amazing set design and costumes, loved the Las Vegas and Miami scenes too as those two cities probably best exemplified the Midcentury aesthetic.

* Rose's Oklahoma scene felt like "and now we're shoehorning in an explanation for all you critics." They even slid in a line about her family being German Jews (they immigrated earlier than the Eastern European Jews and had a presence throughout the South and Midwest. Only they were mostly all Reform, not Orthodox, as Rose's brother seems to be --kippah under his cowboy hat.) Her family was then forgotten the rest of the show.

* Abe as a theater critic will be a fun bit for Shalhoub. Though the leap from math professor is pretty large.

* Jason Alexander as Abe's blacklisted friend was a good choice. That was one of those "is that.... no... wait... IMDB it... yes! it's him!" moments.

* The communist students got to be a bit much too--they kept hammering home that they were really spoiled kids playacting. We got it the first eight times.

* Shy's manager was a great role and important in Susie's development too.

* The Sophie Lennon play thing was funny until it wasn't, the whole hate fucking thing and her blowing it on purpose at the end. They could have done so much more with that.

R178 I agree with everything you wrote, but I have one addendum. While the Chinatown plot feels absolutely contrived for diversity’s sake, I like almost everything about how it worked out. Most of all, I like Mai. The delivery of that actress is absolutely ace. She defies all conventions and expectations, and she’s an absolutely unique character, or anyway one I’ve never seen before. I like her wisecracking, I like her mysteriousness, I like that she’s a random benefactor to Joel. And I do like that he landed in Chinatown after all. It made me remember that Joel isn’t just a jerk who cheated on Midge, but he had avant-garde ambitions of his own, and so choosing an unlikely location to run a bar (with a Chinese-music jukebox!) is charming.

In my view, Suzie is the star of the series even though she is supposed to be the sidekick. Her character is legitimately funny, the performance is legitimately extraordinary, and I understand her character arc more than I understand Midge’s. Meanwhile, my second favorite character and favorite sidekick considering Suzie is a co-lead IMO is Mai. And Jane Lynch always stands out, although I think she series has squandered her potential. I would love to see her character get a spinoff.

I agree with you R179 on Mai being a great character and unlike anything we've seen. Again, the "they're gambling and they stop when Joel comes downstairs and somehow they understand him" bit is another example of A S-P driving something that was funny the first four times into the ground the next eight times. Also, because if you ever follow sketch comedy, one of the things that makes jokes funnier on repetition is that the scenario gets more over the top each time...

I love Suzie too, and her apartment scene works, as per the above sketch comedy comment, because they do keep adding to it each time--the sub-sub-tenant, the birds, the shower...

The Sophie Lennon-blowing-the-play thing seemed like an easy way to get Suzie out of her Sophie Lennon plot line. Jane Lynch's character is funny but they seem stuck as to what to do with her.

R180 The Sophie-Lennon-blowing-her-Broadway-opportunity thing actually made me feel a little sympathy for her character—as sketchily drawn as she is—because she seems so self-loathing and self-destructive. And that makes me curious about why.

I suggested her character might make an interesting spinoff because she’s a curmudgeon but we only have scant details about her world, and in a way that reminds me of Frasier Crane. My family watched Cheers when I was a kid and Frasier always annoyed me. I found him pretentious and unlikable and being a naive kid, I thought giving him of all characters a spinoff was foolish. I didn’t realize that his pretentiousness and his grumpiness only left room to build sympathy and understanding over time as we got to know him. Finding out how Sophie grew up, perhaps who she supports (Frasier supported his father; Bette Davis supported her disabled sister) etc. could make for an interestingly complex character—mainly because I think Jane Lynch is capable of wisecracks but also a lot more. She’s certainly funnier than Mrs. Maisel is!

[quote] Jason Alexander as Abe's blacklisted friend was a good choice. That was one of those "is that.... no... wait... IMDB it... yes! it's him!" moments.

I thought Jason Alexander was excellent in his first appearance. The second episode, he became too "George Costanza" with the frenetic whining. The director should have kept him very low key and reigned in as in his first appearance.

Fair point re: spinoff allowing them to go deeper into her character R181. It was just that they'd been teasing her reluctance for so long and then she seemed to have finally committed to it, was fucking her co-star, and so what she did seemed more like a writer's room cop-out than a legit plot twist.

Ditto R182-- Alexander was much better in the scene at the beach than in the phone call, though those illustrate the basic paradox of all A S-P shows-- the beach scene seemed "real" or at least close to reality, the phone call scene was over the top and more comic relief, yet they happen within the confines of the same show.

The Jason Alexander scene was so random. Abe just happens to go to the beach and *suddenly* who does he encounter? A playwright from the old days. And lo and behold, one of this playwright's old plays is miraculously being performed at just the right opportunity for Abe to go see it!

Hey, Amy, where's the shoehorn? We have to get a Columbia math professor from unemployed to a Village Voice theater critic in 10 episodes!

The historical inaccuracy is incredibly weird. Black people and white people eating at the same lunch counters, sharing public transport, drinking at the same bar together, getting along perfectly in the mid-1950's? Yeah, sure. Midge is a wealthy New York City housewife who spent most of her time shopping at department stores and even worked at one for a year, yet she doesn't know White Christmas? She performs at a USO show as a female comedian and all the men find her hilarious and are extremely respectful rather than screaming at her to take her jugs out? The lack of attention to realism is distracting.

Also the posters upthread pointing out the excessive cussing were right. Wealthy society women back then like Rose would've never thrown "fuck" and "fucking" around like that.

I thought the Jason Alexander character was odd. He was too physical with the father, and I kept thinking he would turn out to be a closet gay and hit on him. I was surprised when he did not.

The first part of that especially R185

In another shoehorned moment, Shy points out that he and Midge can't stay at the same hotel when they're in Florida ... and we are supposed to believe that Midge never noticed this? That no one had ever mentioned it during the weeks they were in Miami. Logistics alone (getting from point A to point B) would have meant she knew.

And I know exactly the scene you are referring to R187. He told Abe he was a good guy still and then touched his face in a weird way. I think they meant it to look like the way a father touches a naive child, but it definitely stood out for me too.

Abe and Jason Alexander are destined to become lovers.

Midge’s mom is destined to become a fiercely independent, legendary matchmaker.

The states that had legal segregation were in the Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Maryland, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Virginia.

There wouldn't be for whites and for coloreds in New York. Sure there was defacto segregation, but not on paper like would have been the case when they were in Florida.

[quote]Midge is a wealthy New York City housewife who spent most of her time shopping at department stores and even worked at one for a year, yet she doesn't know White Christmas?

Exactly!! She never heard it played in one of the stores?

I also find it interesting that Midge can get up on stage and say racy things, but she's SHOCKED! when they take a photo of her with her skirt blowing up. I mean, a girl has her limits, right?

R191 Right...didn’t she also bang Joel in the bathroom of the cafe/diner where they were regulars—and before they were married?

Do you think we’d be more forgiving of these mistakes—like the idiocy of thinking Midge had never heard or even heard of “White Christmas”—if the show were actually funny?

I Love Lucy and the Golden Girls occasionally forgot the names of/randomly renamed some characters, their addresses, etc., and those mistakes didn’t really hurt the quality of the shows overall. We still laughef and loved the characters.

The communism shit aggravates me. I just want to send Abe and all his friends over to Russia for an episode or two and see how long they last. It can be next season's version of the Catskills story. Let's see how long spoiled American New Yorkers last under real communism.

R194 It’s the 60s, man. Don’t be such a drip.

It's less funny/not funny R193 than A S-P's style of rapidly moving from believable dramatic scenes (easy example is Midge finding Shy on the boat and helping him clean up) to completely unbelievable allegedly comedic scenes (the "hate sex" scene with Sophie Lennon or any scene with Moishe and Shirley) and have us blindly accept that these are all happening in the same universe.

It makes things like "White Christmas" stand out more because we were just in The Land of the Real and now find ourselves in Over The Top World and then back to Real again.

R195 It's easier to laugh at people being like that today than it is to laugh at it back then. Today American communists just sound like idiots. Back then people were starving to death in Eastern Europe and being massacred in bouts of ethnic cleansing while Abe and his friends were arguing and drinking together. I probably sound crazy, but it's just kind of hard for me to laugh at american communists back then when I think about what was happening in the USSR at the time.

R197 I was being facetious when I encouraged you to laugh on the grounds that “it’s the sixties, man!”

Honestly, I feel like the show’s attempts at farcical humor miss the mark more often than they hit it. Making fun of beatniks just isn’t that funny. Making comedy of insular Jewish communities not understanding anything about Christmas in an overwhelmingly commercially Christian country is just fantastical. The sensibility of the show is just off.

Only watching for the costumes, the set design, and Joel. God, that ass is to die for. When are they gonna stop pussing out and get him to do a nude scene? You rarely ever see attractive muscly Jewish men with bubble butts.

Michael Zegen (Joel) does have a hot body, but there are times he looks to be about 17 even though he's actually 40 IRL.

That alone should make him a DL icon.

R190, Thanks. A lot of younger people seem to have the impression that the entire US was like the Deep South when it came to segregation. Nope. And, more to the point, some of the first places of integration were night clubs--people being daring by going to see jazz musicians. We're now in the 60s--in other words, around this time, Barack Obama's very white mother was dating his African father. The Brown v. the Board of Education decision had been handed down in 1954.

So, yeah, Midge being unaware of different state laws for Blacks isn't that off--she's mostly been a well-meaning liberal with not a lot of real awareness of political matters. She hasn't been shown to have a lot of black friends which would make her aware of the different levels of discrimination in the South. There's no indication that she's spent any time down there.

YMF--Hasidim weren't much of a thing at the time. The big immigration wave of Hasidim to NY was just beginning and didn't really explode until the 1970s. Moishe would have been born in the 1910s--so, presumably his parents were part of the big Eastern European immigrant wave--thus his name. And, yes, Rose's family would have been part of the earlier, more educated wave of German immigrants.

[quote] YMF--Hasidim weren't much of a thing at the time. The big immigration wave of Hasidim to NY was just beginning and didn't really explode until the 1970s

Actually the Hasids did not immigrate to the US en masse. They were just about wiped out during the Shoah (and there is much controversy in Israel about how some of the rebbes managed to escape)--but the reason Ben Gurion decided they didn't have to serve in the IDF was because he assumed they would just fade away, a remnant of an earlier era.

They surprised everyone by growing rapidly, both in the US and in Israel. Mostly by becoming a magnet for "born-again Jews" (ba'al tschuvot) and also because of their prodigious birth rates--as many as eight to 12 children per family.

Which is why you probably first became aware of them in large numbers in the 70s, as the second and third post-Shoah generations came of age.

But to my earlier point, the son of an Eastern European immigrant like Moishe (as confirmed by the "goat" story) would have taken on an Americanized first name, as that was expected as part of the "melting pot" philosophy of the day. His father may have called him "Moishe" (which is Yiddish for "Moshe" or Moses) but he would have at the very least gone by Moses, more likely Morris or similar.

Moishe, Moishe, Moishe!!

R202, My point stands--Hasidim--and, yes, there was some immigration beginning in 1961, though most growth took place by other means--i.e. big families. And, yeah, Moishe could have gone as Moses, but there are any number of reasons that character might not do so. He's in the garment industry in NYC, there's no pressing need for him to "pass". Instead, it's the son who has the more Anglo name. (And his wife)

Within the universe of the show, most of the characters have Anglo names, Moishe is in the minority--you get hold-outs for whatever reason. You do now and you did back then.

Dunno R204-- from what I've learned. there was a lot of pressure to Americanize kids names which started in elementary school--teachers would give the kids American names if the parents didn't.

What's more likely is that is says "Moses Maisel" on his driver's license and his friends and family call him "Moishe" as a nickname.

But since he's a fictional character and the invention of the show's writers, he can be called whatever they want

Random tangent: Speaking of anglicized names, I met my mom’s cousin from Ireland earlier this year—she’s in her 70s—and her birth name (Irish) is Síle, pronounced “Sheila.” So the anglicized name, what all non-Irish speakers call her, is Sabina. (Sah-BAYE-nah.)

I asked her why the English language version of a name that’s pronounced Sheila isn’t just Sheila.

She said, “well, I don’t know. I never thought about that!”

Great season, light years better than 1 & 2 and Maisel is actually a likeable person now.

[quote]Midge's family's apartment is clearly on the Upper West Side, I think they mention it and you see Imogene and Midge walking in Riverside Park more than once.

In S1E3, she gets in a taxi in the Village and gives the driver the address as "Riverside and 113th", which is a bit further north than I would have expected,

The building is the Strathmore at 404 Riverside

Wanda Sykes was a nice surprise.

Someone else playing that character could easily have come across as an offensive caricature, but Wanda clearly imbued it with respect and admiration. Loved that.

The area around 110th street on the West Side has some beautiful buildings R208, both on 110th and on Riverside. In the 50s it was pretty posh--remember, Lincoln Center hadn't been built yet and so the W 60s and 70s were not what they are now.

as West Side Story illuminated for us R211

Curbed had a recent article about Mrs. Maisel's apartment. They showed a listing of an actual unit that inspired the Maisels' apartment set. Then it occurred to me that the same building and same unit inspired the Madoff apartment set in Wizard of Lies. It's clearly the same apartment. I'd already known Wizard of Lies used Riverside Drive.

I couldn't get through the first or second seasons. Last week I watched the third season by itself and I'm now watching the second and first seasons.

^^^That Curbed article...

Didn't see Wizard of Lies and not sure what liberties they took with the facts, but the Madoff apartment was on E64th St. on the UES not UWS

The actor that plays Joel really benefits from good lighting, costumes and make-up. I wouldn't give him a second glance in real life. He should wear clothes that accentuate his cute little body.

Yes, they took liberties in The Wizard of Lies.

What do we know about Zegen?

He does not appear to be married or have kids. And he's 40.

i think he "just hasn't found the right girl"

I thought this season was pretty (you can tell they have upped the budget), but dull.

Nothing really happened.

The husband is boring.

And it seemed so odd to be in Vegas in the early '60s with black people and race not be an issue.

And Lenny Bruce was a heroin addict, not a suave guy to woo Midge.

Yeah, spoiler alert for those of us not around in the 60s, Lenny Bruce will die soon, probably next season. I just learned this last night.

R216 I still think he's cute even outside of the show. I mean, he's not Brad Pitt, but he's handsome. If we can have uggos like Adam Driver be considered hot why not him? Zegen's at the very least ugly-hot.

[quote]What do we know about Zegen? He does not appear to be married or have kids. And he's 40.

In every non-Maisel picture, he looks gay. Like a better built Harvey Fierstein.

we report, you decide

He has an unsightly mole under his eye.

nobody, except for your, is perfect, sweetie

Couldn't disagree more R220 great season, lots of plot but I won't spoil it for others. Gorgeous to look at and the musical scenes were wonderful. The USO scene in episode one was movie worthy.

They both seem very sweet in the video. And it is clear that she really loves dogs, which, to me, is a huge bonus.

[quote]Yeah, spoiler alert for those of us not around in the 60s, Lenny Bruce will die soon, probably next season. I just learned this last night.

I doubt it, as it would be a hell of a time jump. Season three ended in 1960; so far each season has taken place over one year (1958, 1959, 1960). Bruce died in 1966. He’s not dying next season.

Didn't Lenny Bruce have a wife? What was the role that Valerie Perinne played in the movie?

Honey Harlow. She and Lenny divorced in 1959. She’s in the first or second episode coming to pick Bruce up after Midge bails him out of jail. By the end of season two he’s no longer wearing his wedding ring and his “All Alone” monologue is in part about their split.

The actor playing Joel is one of the absolutely ugliest human beings to ever appear on television, including local news man-on-the-street randos. Who the fuck is he related to? No one with a face even in the vicinity of his should be playing a romantic lead in anything that isn't making a point of 'ugly people want to laid too'.

R232 clearly once made a pass at Zegen and was rejected

Hey R 233, are you like, mental?

[R232] Joel deserves every bit of Suzy’s scorn.

So how close to real life was Weil's portrayal of Kim Novak?

Where did you get she was playing Kim Novak?

Omg, you're right. That napkin they stole from Novak wasn't Weil's. Sorry, got them confused as I was doing some other things at the time, my bad!

R232 is the one who's foaming at the mouth. Take a breath, hunty--there are uglier people on TV.

I wish we had seen more of that tour with Shy other than just Vegas and Harlem.

Oh, wait, we saw Florida as well, didn't we?

R232, he's not playing a romantic lead. He plays the shlubby husband who can't figure out his life and what he wants to do or is good at. He's not supposed to be anything impressive, you dummy.

[quote]he's not playing a romantic lead. He plays the shlubby husband who can't figure out his life and what he wants to do or is good at. He's not supposed to be anything impressive, you dummy.

In addition, the show wanted to portray his parents as very "New Yawk Joo". They couldn't cast a gorgeous guy and then have his parents doing the comic Jewish parents act.

I don’t buy that Midge was naive enough to think that all of Harlem knew about Shy’s sexuality, especially considering his band doesn’t know.

We’re people surprised by the boat reveal? He seemed pretty obviously gay to me and his relationship with his manager suggests they are exes.

[quote]especially considering his band doesn’t know.

I think the band knew. They at least knew that he had been beat up before. They even had a special set planned out, "the stool set", for times when he wasn't up to a full performance.

[quote]The lack of attention to realism is distracting.

The lack of realism is the heart of the show. Nothing is realistic. It’s all idealized.

R245 I could not quite figure out the stool. I thought maybe he had been raped and couldn’t stand up for too long for some reason?

I don’t buy that Midge was naive enough to think that all of Harlem knew about Shy’s sexuality, especially considering his band doesn’t know. We’re people surprised by the boat reveal? He seemed pretty obviously gay to me and his relationship with his manager suggests they are exes.

From the first minute they introduced him it was obviously Johnny Mathis. My mother loved Johnny. My first concert as a kid was Mathis as my mother dragged me to The Westbury Music Fair on Long Island during his big 70's Denice Williams phase. My mother knew or assumed he was gay and it didn't matter at all. A few years later she worked with someone who was a golf partner and confirmed it long before he officially came out.

I’m 41, and the only thing I ever knew about Johnny Mathis was his name. I never even knew he was black, much less gay. I wouldn’t have drawn any correlation with Shy. I seriously doubt most viewers under a certain age (50? Older) would get any sort of reference no matter how obvious it may have been.

And I think I would have been slightly surprised by the reveal on the boat had I not read here on DL two days after the season was released that he turned out to be gay in the end. So thanks, DL, as always, for the unannounced spoiler.

Were we supposed to think it was intentional R248? I thought it was that she was naive enough to think they would NEVER pick up on it and so mentioned thinks like his clothes and all and that it was Shy himself who felt that she was coming too close.

Saw December 6, when is next episode?

R250 I think the same. It was a cultural mismatch. She felt pressured to outdo herself because she had unwittingly taken Moms’s slot, and Shy’s manager specifically said to skewer Shy. All her [unfunny] comedy makes fun of people—she makes fun of her Jewishness, of her husband, of herself—and so one would only assume she would make fun of Shy. It felt obvious to me that the writers actually put a lot of thought into this comedy set for her because it did make fun of Shy but it was pretty well balanced and open to interpretation. To a naive person, she could have just been saying he is a prima donna, a demanding star, and not necessarily that he was gay. Audience shots showed that people got that she was poking at his masculinity, but that doesn’t mean they necessarily would have taken it to mean she had knowledge he is actually gay.

It is interesting that it was set at the Apollo with its cutthroat audience enjoying her jokes even as they seemed to understand the subtext, and then they excitedly welcomed Shy, seemingly unaffected by what they may have understood about his sexuality.

Spoiler....

Sterling K. Brown was wonderful. The last scene where he fires her he has tears in his eyes. Now do you think because he was in love with Shy and she hurt him, or was he secretly in love with her?

Liza Weil is so good.

Agree r254. Gonna miss her if she is gone. Best part of the new season IMHO.

I hadn’t been aware of Johnny Mathis before, really. I filed him away with other pop singers of that era like Tom Jones and Vic Damone. I think of him as more easy listening than rhythm and blues, but In the show he sounds like Jackie Wilson. I’m going watch him on utube today and learn more about him. I watched some Moms Mobley last week and her humor stands the test of time...I was laughing pretty hard while cooking dinner.

R256 -- Tom Jones might seem like the punchline to a joke because of his image, but he was an amazing performer and singer. I don't think I appreciated him at the time, but I recently read his memoir and watched some videos, and, damn, he could sing. Although he still has a degree of fame, I think his image overshadows his real gift.

his real gift was getting the fraus to throw him their panties while he was onstage

It was Engelbert Humperdink who was the punchline...

How realistic was Midge's comedy about Shy? Didn't she make a Judy Garland joke? Would people in 1960 understand that Judy was loved by gay men? This was pre-Stonewall. Did gay people even show up on the radar of straight people in 1960?

[quote] Would people in 1960 understand that Judy was loved by gay men? This was pre-Stonewall. Did gay people even show up on the radar of straight people in 1960?

Eldergays?

[quote] How realistic was Midge's comedy about Shy? Didn't she make a Judy Garland joke?

"The Wizard Of Oz" had been on TV since 1956 and yearly from'59 so she was probably inferring The Ruby Slippers" which even then were the most famous shoes in the world and very feminine.

Predating The Wizard of Oz origins of the phrase ["Friends of Dorothy"] (although not connections to the L. Frank Baum Novels) is New York City's celebrated humorist, critic and "defender of human and civil rights" Dorothy Parker, whose social circles in the 1920s and 1930s included gay menThe socialite would throw "famous parties at Garden of Allah's lavish celebrity villas", gay men would use the phrase for entry.

you're welcome

[quote]Shy was barely in Season 2, but there were definitely no gay references

There were to me, as soon as it became clear, through physique and singing style, that Shy was totally based on Johnny Mathis, complete with velvety vocal tones and swift vibratos on his ballads. The deal was closed when it was revealed he was unattached.

Loved the season and none of it is actually based in any kind of reality but the fact she managed to get her huge NY apartment back is sloppy writing.

[quote]but the fact she managed to get her huge NY apartment back is sloppy writing.

Definitely. Also, the fact that they didn't return the signed contract was the worst piece of writing.

I can't quite figure out why they are plotting the show to have the parents depend solely on Miriam for support. I get that they want to create an end of season drama with her losing her contract, therefore having no means of support. My guess is Season 4 they will have to humble themselves and Suzy will have to go crawling back to Sophie to get some money. But it's not that interesting of a storyline.

Another question I have. How do they have the money to fly all over the place? Joel goes out to Las Vegas. Miriam urges him to bring the children to Florida. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, wasn't flying expensive? I thought flying really didn't become cheap until Reagan deregulated in the 1980s.

The ping-ping-ping between reality and fantasy can be disconcerting but that's AS-P's trademark.

I find that if I start asking (valid) questions like R267's I just go down a rabbit hole, so better to just accept the world they've created.

R248 R260 I think the comedy routine about Shy's sexual orientation was off for several reasons. I don't think "ruby slippers" and too much make up and all the "he's really a sissy" stuff seemed unrealistic for the context, and also, in what universe (even a over-the-top, cartoonish series about a 60s that never existed) is not mean and a betrayal for her to do that? It was clear, both in the plot and her interactions with the character, and in the norms of the time, that his orientation was not something to be made public. She betrays that just to get a laugh? Also, did Shy really need to get beat up by a trick? Really, is that the great tragedy of gay men in the time period, the "danger" of rough trade? Give me a break.

Having said that, I am humming "One Last Angel of Heaven"... they absolutely nailed a Brill Building hit, although that wasn't necessarily Mathis' lane.

R266 Whether they’re setting it up to make everyone dependent or not, this season, everyone was dependent on Joel’s parents’ support. Midge leased her apartment back from him, becoming their financial burden. Her parents lived with them. Joel used their money to get the Chinatown bar. They’re a one-family bank of American dreams!

It was Jimmy Carter who deregulated the airlines.

R269 One LESS Angel in Heaven

A few years ago I used to think how British period shows are always filming eleborate street scenes all over London, merging today's streets into those of another era. American shows shows set in the New York of the past would have no street scenes. Mad Men was an indoor only show and it felt off. The characters were never on the streets. Joan and Roger were robbed on the street and that's all I can think of. I know it was filmed in LA, but for a major TV series, a few weeks in NY for a show set in Manhattan wouldn't have been out of the question.

I used to think it must just be too complicated to do in New York. Mrs. Maisel does it often and I'm still impressed.

Even though this song wasn't in the 60's they definitely were channeling Johnny's style. Amazing vocal.

[quote] I used to think it must just be too complicated to do in New York. Mrs. Maisel does it often and I'm still impressed.

NYC is very giving to film companies, to the anger of citizens because production companies get in the way and basically take over in a very tight area that already is overcrowded. I think the only problem is in doing period pieces. They can't go too wide with shots or they will see too many modern references.

For example, in the first season of Maisel, they filmed a scene in Washington Square Park. Until April of 1959, cars were allowed to drive through Washington Square Park. There's no way these days that they could film that as they've restructured the park so that cars wouldn't be able to drive through.

Used to live on Elizabeth ST. For this shot all they did was add some signs in the window.

R270 That bugged me, weren't Joel's parents flat-out broke and sleeping in their factory last season? How'd they go from that to Daddy Warbucks?

[quote]Used to live on Elizabeth ST. For this shot all they did was add some signs in the window.

Same with the Midge/Joel diner scenes. I've eaten at La Bonbonniere several times. They put up a few cardboard signs and parked a few period vehicles on the street.

[quote]That bugged me, weren't Joel's parents flat-out broke and sleeping in their factory last season? How'd they go from that to Daddy Warbucks?

Wasn't it Joel who was living at the factory when he left The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel?

Ain't New York swell?

Wasn’t Joel also shown sleeping in the factory this season?

Have any of you produced directed or starred in an 8 episode series? I didn't think so

So STFU!

When they produce the standard 12 or 24 episodes then we'll shut up. Right now they are doing it half-assed.

Ha R278!

I had no idea that's where those scenes were shot or that La Bonbonniere was even still in existence.

Used to go there years ago. Your clothes would smell like grease for a week afterwards. But the food was old school diner great.

^^That was before the area directly west became the hip Meatpacking District and that was sort of the last outpost of civilization. Like early 00s maybe? I had a friend in high school whose divorced dad lived down there

[quote] Used to go there years ago. Your clothes would smell like grease for a week afterwards. But the food was old school diner great.

It's still that way. It used to be I didn't go there because there were so many good diners around. Now all the diners have closed and if you want the true experience, you have to go there and deal with your clothes smelling like grease for a week.

I may need to check it out again R286 and just remember to wear things that can immediately go in the wash.

I have memories of my mother walking in and saying "you were at that diner again, weren't you? I could smell it out in the hallway!"

R42 You asked if the standup part is funny to Jewish people. I am Jewish and my answer is no. Nor do my relatives find her routines funny. However, we're loving the show this season, particularly Mrs. Maisel's parents and her former in-laws, the manager, Jane Lynch, and the ex-husbands's girlfriend. Basically, all the supporting characters and their storylines are good. The main character can be a little tiresome. Also, the locations are fabulous.

Whereas this (half) Jew and his friends find Moishe and Shirley Maisel to be half a shade away from an antisemitic stereotype.

The other characters are fine.

[quote] Joan and Roger were robbed on the street and that's all I can think of.

I was fucking ABANDONED on the streets of NYC by that asshole Duck!

Vegas was just lots of old file clips and an elaborate indoor set complete with antique slot machines and space for rolling and flying cameras.

With Florida they were lucky because the Fountainbleu and many of Miami Beach’s small Art Deco joints have kept or restored some of the original decor (even if they have additional modern wings).

When will the next episode be on?

R292, bless your heart.

It's on after Liberace. He's single, you know.

[quote] Have any of you produced directed or starred in an 8 episode series? I didn't think so. So STFU!

This is a repeated stupid argument that only incredibly stupid people make.

If (by your argument) only people in the entertainment business are allowed to critique entertainment products, then only people in the business should be the ones to watch them. No one else.

But since makers of entertainment in fact desperately [italic]want[/italic] people not in the business to watch their products (otherwise they would make no money), we are of course allowed to critique. what we are supposed to consume

[quote]With Florida they were lucky because the Fountainbleu and many of Miami Beach’s small Art Deco joints have kept or restored some of the original decor (even if they have additional modern wings).

Which is rich as the $160 million budgeted "The Irishman" filmed their big Miami hotel scens at Leonard's Of Great Neck" a Long Island catering hall.

R289 I see where you're coming with that, but I think they made the in-laws extra crass in order to contrast them with the parents who are educated and cultured. The personality and lifestyle clash is funny, especially when they're all living together. If both couples were coming from the same type of background there would be no tension or conflict between them, and it wouldn't be nearly as funny, in my opinion.

I hear you R297-- one of the things about AS-P is that while her main characters are finely drawn and nuanced, the background characters are often reduced to caricatures.

There were just a few too many cringeworthy moments with M&S, though I suppose there are people who are sort of like that.

The toughest Suspension of Disbelief piece with them is that Joel is so normal.

Marin Hinkle is such a good actress that they have never developed a character for her. They just throw whatever characteristics are convenient for a scene--superstitious, artistic, vain, restrictive, narrow-minded, free-thinking, etc.

Because Hinkle can somehow make it all work, you do not notice that this show is unconcerned with giving her a coherent (or even consistent) character.

Yes r299, but her performance gave us this...

All of this Mrs. Maisel, and I can't stop thinking about House Arrest. Caroline Aaron and Kevin Pollack. Wallace Shawn has a part in both too. A group of neighborhood kids lock all their parents in one basement. Caroline plays a Peg Bundy type.

She had a recurring bit part on Six Feet Under as Ruth's friend Amelia, but she had almost no lines and wasn't memorable.

I want a lot more Caroline Aaron. She's popped up in so many things I've seen but it's always been small parts. It's great that she's such a big part of Mrs. Maisel.

Any thoughts on Susie’s gambling? Are we going to find out next season that she has lost all of Midge’s money and now, kicked off the tour, has no way of earning it back?

R250, I don’t think we were supposed to believe that Midge was intentionally revealing Shy’s homosexuality. That would have been a career murder-suicide in 1960, but she’d have to be awfully stupid not to know that her references were suggestive at best. To me, it was one of those moments where the writers wanted the plot to go in a certain direction, so they had a character do something incredibly dumb (like surrender their inheritance or give up their beautiful apartment) to get there. It’s one of TMMM’s more annoying habits.

r302 At first it sure seemed like Susie lost everything she and Midge had. When she talked to Joel she said she just had to organize the money and then she would turn it over. She didn't act like it would be too difficult, but that was while they were still set to go out on tour. We shall see. They could be back to square one financially, and just when Midge is set to move back into her apartment. I think Susie has a new place lined up too.

Best scene in the series, maybe best in the show: The dazzling shot of Midge’s arrival at the Fontainebleau. Spectacular.

There were some comments upthread wondering why Midge didn’t have sex with Lenny Bruce. She didn't because she doesn’t sleep around. Despite the language she uses, Midge is a “nice girl”. The only men she’s had sex with are her husband and her fiancé.

Also, I think the conversation with the woman bass player in Shy’s band (“let me tell you how one-night stands work on the road”) sort of shocked her. Or perhaps she took it as a warning – don’t screw around or you’ll end up like this woman. Anyway, Midge is not a woman to have sex with a man where there’s no serious involvement, and she may have figured out that a relationship with Lenny Bruce would not end happily.

And then there’s the fact that Bruce was a real person with a real history – an unhappy one. Tying Midge to him would have meant tying the series to the well-known details of Bruce’s life and putting Midge into a difficult relationship as a central plot point. That said, I think Luke Kirby’s performance is brilliant and sexy. I wish somebody would do (another) bio of Bruce and put him in it.

Is Luke Kirby gay? He was on The View today discussing how he watched Joy Behar make her lasagna and then follower her recipe himself. Are straight men aware of Joy's lasagna? I'm not even one who thinks every attractive actor is gay either. Joy's lasagna though, come on.

R306, I saw that Luke Kirby interview. The lasagna didn’t impact me, but my gaydar went off when he spoke, even though it hasn’t on the series.

I know he just divorced last year after a 7 or 8 year marriage and has been linked with other women, but damn...my gaydar beeped loudly during The View appearance.

[quote]Any thoughts on Susie’s gambling? Are we going to find out next season that she has lost all of Midge’s money and now, kicked off the tour, has no way of earning it back?

Wasn't the whole boat scene with her sister about how that was taken care of now?

DLers are so sweet.

R306 my friend--none of this real.

Luke's PR person told him about Joy's lasagna and that it was a big deal and that he's endear himself to the audience by talking about it. Maybe even the producer from the show suggested it.

R308 Yes, it was, and/but the suspense of this series’s plots is always so in your face. From Shy being gay to Susie gambling away Midge’s savings to now, I can only assume, Susie at least being investigated for insurance fraud. (It seems inevitable as a plot point.)

Susie is the best part of the show but I was kind of creeped out by her not seeming to care at all that her mother had died, not to mention making a joke of the way it happened. I don’t know if the writing of Mrs. Maisel is bad exactly, but its sensibility, from the constant stream of unfunny jokes to the contrived dramas to the inhumane tastelessness at times...it just isn’t for me.

Too bad he's never allowed to smile like that on the show.

r309 You really have it all figured out.

r306

I don’t care about Kirby’s personal life. I agree with Joy Behar that he does embody Lenny Bruce’s energy on the show, which means he is doing a good job as an actor.

The whole lasagna thing on The View is a contrived domestic drama.

r304 and she was talking about the money she assumes she'll get from burning the house down. NOT Midge's money, which, yes, obviously she lost.

Do you have a head injury?

[quote]I know he just divorced last year after a 7 or 8 year marriage and has been linked with other women, but damn...my gaydar beeped loudly during The View appearance.

Be interested to know where you got your info r307. Pretty sure this is his wife. He thanked her at the Emmys. They’ve been together a long time, even after the Katie Holmes stuff.

I know a great crying scene can be catnip for actors, but the sequence after Susie got the gambling news when Borstein came into her flat and began sobbing was really well done

[quote]and she was talking about the money she assumes she'll get from burning the house down. NOT Midge's money, which, yes, obviously she lost. Do you have a head injury?

No I don't have a head injury, I just assumed since this is EXACTLY what was said.....

Sister... "will this get you out of your hole?"

Susie..."Well the insurance will cover Midge's portion of the money I lost. That's whats important."

I'll go out on a limb and say she has replaced Midge's money. What's your fucking excuse?

What Katie Holmes stuff, R315?

It's clear that ASP and husband are having a great time making beautiful pictures with the aesthetic of the time period they are in. It's also clear they are enjoying using familiar nostalgic elements of NYC life, Jewish life, club life in NYC, Vegas etc.

I'm hoping as the time period marched deeper into the 60's they will opt for a bit more realism from that time. Not abandoning totally what they've set up but allowing a bit more maturity to come through in their storytelling. Right now it's a bit too Doris Day, and that's been fine, just hoping we get more than that soon.

Why would a show distinguished by it’s idealized tone turn towards realism?

Spoiler alert:

My understanding was that Suzy lost Midge's money and so the insurance money that she would get from her mother's house being burned down would cover what she lost. She was going to give it to Joel because she couldn't be trusted with Midge's money.

[quote]I know a great crying scene can be catnip for actors, but the sequence after Susie got the gambling news when Borstein came into her flat and began sobbing was really well done

It was the best moment in Season 3. Alex Borstein can do no wrong.

Now, a spoiler alert?

[Quote]Susie is the best part of the show but I was kind of creeped out by her not seeming to care at all that her mother had died, not to mention making a joke of the way it happened.

Not everyone loves their family. Susie's mom was a mean, useless alcoholic and she didn't like her or have any relationship with her. That has been consistent.

Jesus Christ, R320:

it’s idealized tone=it is idealized tone its idealized tone=its idealized tone

Can people like you ever learn this?

r320 has stated her boundaries regarding apostrophe placement!

Apparently what people should have learned in the 6th grade is still too hard to grasp.

AGAIN:

it is = it's (the apostrophe replaces the letter "i")--meaning there's a noun and a verb... It is...

its = its--it shows possession

I won't even start on their/there/they're or someone's little head will explode from confusion.

Carry on.

I'm an ESL and this is one of the first things we learned in class. I may be the biggest offender when it comes to mixing up "will" and "going to", but man I have never in my life fucked up an apostrophe and I am strangely proud of that fact every time I see that mistake here and elsewhere. 😊

Easiest way to remember the it's/its stuff:

His, Hers, Yours, Its

It is-it's.

As for the show; it always has a lot of surface/movie-musical gloss and a much darker undertone. Midge is on her way to success, but there are lots and lots of indicators that it will come at a high cost: stable family life, being a present mother, any kind of healthy romantic relationship. The end of last season was her speech about knowing she was going to end up alone. The end this season involved her betraying Shy because winning over an audience mattered more to her. The first season ended with Joel acknowledging her talent AND his inability to live with being the butt of her jokes, even though he loves her.

The successful artists in this show--Sophie, the Rufus Sewell character, Shy Baldwin, Lenny Bruce--are all alone and they're all fabulous monsters of some sort. Their manager/enablers are ruthless in protecting them. It's all lively and funny, but the cost of all of this pretty stuff is hammered over and over.

This season more of the focus was on what success would do to Susie, which is why she gets the big speech from Shy's manager (great scene)--we've already seen her lie, cheat and steal.

And, yeah, Borstein is brilliant in the role.

Ha! Just noticed the lead singer’s name in Shy’s back-up group is Martha.

Ha! Just noticed the lead singer’s name in Shy’s back-up group is Martha.

Sorry for the repeats. But this thread is defective.

Loved the Julie/Julie switch on the marquee. Completely unrealistic but a great, easy laugh

Rufus Sewell?

R334, The actor who played Declan Howell, the drunk painter, in the second season. I blanked on the character's name.

So is this the last we’ll see of Shy? It seems like they really showcased him this season, singing and all. Was he not popular or did they get tired of him? I found him appealing as a character.

R336, "Was he not popular?"

All the episodes dropped the same day. It is not as if they could realize halfway through the season that the character was not popular, then write him out

Hmm, good point, R337. The writers must have just decided to write him out. Doesn’t seem like he’ll be back.

Shy really took over Season 3. There was too much of his storyline.

He can easily be back - as can she, on his show. There are dozens of plot possibilities. Was he billed as a guest star?

Great season. I figured it would end the way it did. As she was going through her set at the Appollo, I was thinking it won't end well.

Leroy McClain was in 9 episodes

Are Mrs. Maisels jokes intentionally meant to be corny?

The people who write this show really don't know much about life in 1960, do they? I love the show for its sumptuous look and because I like many of the characters, but it seems clear that nobody bothered to do any research or talk to anyone who was around at the time (or had ever paid attention to old movies and TV shows, for that matter). It's not just the lazy, anachronistic expressions; it's the entire feel of the series.

For example, they far underestimate the level of homophobia in society at that time. A woman who dressed and acted like Suzie would get more than bemused looks. She'd be at real risk of being physically attacked, and she might well have been barred from many places for cross-dressing, not to mention acting like a boor. Meanwhile, there is no way someone as worldly as Midge would think it would be OK to hint at homosexuality or impugn the masculinity of her boss in a public setting.

And there are minor examples, too. Midge orders "gin martinis". In 1960, martinis were made with gin. (Some would argue they still are.) If you wanted a vodka martini - which was quite a new thing at the time - you specified "vodka martini". Otherwise, you got gin. Ordering a gin martini is a recent thing.

Anyway, I'm used to it at this point. I'm invested in the characters and look forward to even more fabulous fashion and interiors as we move into the early '60s, but I wish the writers would try a little harder to capture what the era actually felt like, not just what it looked like.

[quote] A woman who dressed and acted like Suzie would get more than bemused looks. She'd be at real risk of being physically attacked, and she might well have been barred from many places for cross-dressing, not to mention acting like a boor.

Many mistake her for a man and she doesn't correct them which can keep her safe in some situations..

That's ridiculous, R346. She would totally be a target. R345 is completely right on all counts. The show is ludicrously inaccurate left and right. It's downright distracting sometimes.

Well she hasn't been beaten up yet for it has she?

Given its fantasy tone, minor inaccuracies don’t bother me as they would in Mad Men. Bring on the Norwegian Catholics! However, I agree that Midge would not think it was cool to joke about Shy’s sexuality. That rang quite false and it’s a major plot point.

She didn't think it was cool, she was doing what she thought she was told to do being in front of a whole new audience for her.

I meant “cool” as acceptable. There were NO out celebrities at that time. Even Liberace was closeted.

I could totally buy Midge outing Shy. It makes sense, given how she's written to be kind of ditsy and sheltered. I believed that a wealthy JAP who's barely ever left the Upper West/East/Whatever side and has only ever been around other wealthy straight white Jews would be tone deaf to that sort of thing. The part that I find unrealistic was that Midge and her mother wouldn't be racist. Abe I get, but it's a little bit far-fetched that two wealthy heiresses who've spent their whole lives in a homogenous rich white bubble wouldn't be even the slightest bit racist.

r345 r3477 I'm reminded of the character Anybodys from West Side Story who like Suzie looks like a guy. The inclusion of that character in WSS and the fact that no one made anything of it helps Suzie's character make sense for me in the MMM world.

Suzie would more likely get looks from other women and if she got noticed at all they wouldn't say anything to her. They would talk among themselves. Men probably wouldn't pay any attention to Suzie because she looks like a guy and isn't fuckable, that doesn't change from decade to decade.

By your definition, R352, and it's accurate, Midge is just a clueless, entitled, UWS cunt. I don't know if I go along with your racist label of her mother, but the rest fits. I kind of hate Midge, and the show for that matter. Binged the whole thing and thought it was greatly overhyped trash.

I was never friends with wealthy Jews, I grew up around middle class Jews. What I know of the time, it is entirely possible that Rose was not racist.

She wouldn't have a problem with Black people until one of her children wanted to marry one.

Never heard of Rachel Brosnahan before this. Blonde in real life. Wouldn't recognize her if we passed in the street.

Wasn't she blonde in House Of Cards? I wish she'd do more dramatic roles like that, she's excellent at that sort of performance and surprisingly more likable than when she does comedy.

Eurgh, the scene that starts at 1:10. Amazing.

This season belongs to Susie. She's brilliant. Her breakdown scene was electric. And the look on her face at the end when she realizes what's going on and how fucked they both are. She's a great actress.

[quote]but the fact she managed to get her huge NY apartment back is sloppy writing.

recognizing that "huge" is relative, but the apartment she is getting back is not the huge one she shared with her parents after Season 1, which Abe got as Columbia faculty housing.

She's getting (or maybe not now) the much smaller one that Moishe had bought for Midge and Joel in the same building.

r358 I happened to see this episode before I went out to see the movie Cats. This kind of camera work and set design is a chunk of what was missing in that that film to make it great and engaging.

It's this kind of understanding of tone and atmosphere that is missing from the recent movie musicals. Imagine how this scene would look on the big screen.

ASP is a dancer, she and her husband are horrible to work for but they understand story and they have the kind of vision it takes to bring style and movement to their storytelling and transport you into the world of the piece. These are the kind of folks who deserve a crack at a movie musical or a live network musical. It would be torture for everyone involved but the product would be amazing.

Way to much of the parents and the ex, their storylines are so dull! Midge is still not that funny on stage, in one minute Wanda Sykes was funnier than Midge has been all three seasons.

I liked this season the best so far. Really loved the long, one take camera shots and just the fun and beauty of the episodes. Midge is my least favorite character but Suzi is what I really watch it for. She's amazing.

I've always thought Midge's mom was a cunt but this season, she way out cunted herself. The storyline with the beatniks was lame but I like that it made her dad think about how he used to be.

They did some great stuff this season. I've always thought the show was more of a character study than about the narrative. It succeeds on that level.

Ok, I'm late to watching this season, but there is something bothering me. Concerning Rose's oil baron family, I understand she refused anymore money from the trust, which was a great example of cutting off your nose to spite your face, but shouldn't Midge have her own trust fund from the family? The board scene showed that younger male members of the family got to sit on the board, so one would have to imagine the younger females, like Midge, also got a trust fund.

I'm late finishing the season as well, really was immersed in every episode. Loved it.

Someone upthread suggested that Abe and Jason S's character are destined to be lovers. I felt they WERE lovers, those years before in NYC, before Jason was blacklisted. Abe's frolic with the young communists was no coincidence; he was a sympathizer no doubt, and wrote that NYC piece out of guilt more than anything. Remember in season 2 in the Catskills when Abe was whimpering where his favorite houseboy had gone? There's a gay aspect to him that needs to be explored next season.

I did like in the final scene that Reggie recognized, and told Suzie in so many words, that Midge was destined for stardom just like Shy, and Suzie was going to have her hands full. Yes, I think she will.

Joel has a sexiness that is unique and unequaled by any other actor. All of his factory and nightclub scenes were filmed as if they were a stage production which only added to that kind of tension.

Hope we get Season 4 timely (later this year) but, doubt it.

[quote]Several posters have commented that the Maisels live on the Upper East Side. Totally wrong and completely misses the demographics of NYC in this era. The Upper West Side would be where upper middle class Jews lived. The Upper East Side, at this time would have been mostly gentiles at this time.

[quote]Want to live in the Maisel's family apartment? Would cost you 9 mil to buy.

The Maisels are Joel's parents. Miriam's parents are the WEISSMANNS.

Speaking of anachronistic language ... in Season 2 someone made a reference to a "gay hooker." I'm pretty sure "gay" was not in common usage until much later in the '60s and even into the '70s.