The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

Oh, and since it's obvious she's doing her act in Greenwich Village, how long until they introduce a gay character?

Did her New York accent improve, i.e., does she sound like a New Yorker yet?

R1 Is Alex Borstein's character gay? I watched the pilot a long time ago and don't remember. When do the new episodes start?

OP -- wasn't Lenny Bruce a character in the pilot?

[quote]When do the new episodes start?

New episodes start tomorrow night, Wednesday 11/29.

I watched the pilot and really liked it. The lead actress totally pulls it off. She's beautiful, very funny, and smart. I wasn't totally sold when we met her at her wedding and she gave an "entertaining" toast - the bride giving her own toast, but at crunch time, when her character takes the stage for the first time and rants about what just happened to her, it's completely believable that she killed it and has stand-up talent. Alex Borstein and she also click really well. I think it's supposed to be a Joan Rivers thing if Joan Rivers was beautiful and not insecure. Mrs. Maisel NOT being insecure is one of the strengths. She's not arrogant, entitled, or anything, just lots of energy, quick on her feet, social, and way sharper than her wannabe comic husband. I enjoy looking at the apartments and the NYC way of life that just disappeared after 2000 - the big upper west side apartments that a comfortably middle-class (but not wealthy) family could live in, and have a maid. One thing the pilot got wrong is when Mrs. Maisel is ordering meat for an important meal, she ends up getting helped before a woman who was there ahead of her. That woman was ordering pork chops. Nope. Mrs. Maisel would have been in a kosher meat market to get kosher meat for the religious holiday meal that featured a rabbi she'd been trying to get to her table for ages. They avoid a pitfall of the concept, which is to hire an actress to play a comedienne, write the material, have people laugh and pretend she's funny when she's really not. But the actress playing Mrs. Maisel pulls it off. Alex Borstein is also great. And I just LOVE the look of the thing. The apartment where Borstein's character lives is exactly where she'd have lived. That sort of rathole with the murphy bed that, when unfolded, practically knocks into the front door would be taken over and renovated into some type of luxury micro-residence today. I miss that NYC - it hasn't been THAT long since it disappeared, but long enough.

Love the show. Have watched the first three. The only thing that sort of made me groan is the few times Sherman-Palladino works in some of that GILMORE GIRLS rapid fire dialogue shtick. Thankfully, it's few and far between.

The cast is excellent, especially Tony Shalhoub. I hated MONK, but he is phenomenal in this as the dad. Nothing showy, but every little nuance and gesture is just perfect. Also nice to see Marin Hinkle. I loved her as Sela Ward's sister in ONCE AND AGAIN.

She felt like Joan Rivers meet Phyllis Diller to me. Really loved this. The actress playing Suzy is brilliant.

I should also add that I've seen 4 episodes now, and will watch the rest tomorrow. I downloaded it.

In the pilot, she stole Harvey Fierstein's joke from the movie of Torch Song Trilogy where he gets up in the middle of the night and primps himself so that when the alarm clock goes off in the morning, the partner sees him all freshly made up.

I've loved Rachel Brosnahan ever since her amazing turn in the the tragically-underrated "Manhattan." Glad to see her range is expanding.

They must have paid a fortune for using all the Barbra Streisand songs they use.

The production values are amazing. I especially like the details, the period cars, things like that. The set design is excellent. It looks better than Mad Men. I watched all eight episodes so far and liked it but it definitely needs more interesting plot twists. I liked Jane Lynch as Sophie Lennon.

Alex Borstein is the best thing about this show. If she doesn't win an Emmy, there is no justice in the world.

Wasn't Borstein overlooked for Getting On?

Anyway, I am intrigued and will check this show out.

Episode 5 - they have Broadway tickets to the hard to get Music Man!!! AND Sutton Foster does a voiceover singing "I Enjoy Being A Girl".

r12 Why would they have Barbra Streisand songs? No one knew who she was in 1959.

[quote]Why would they have Barbra Streisand songs? No one knew who she was in 1959.

Two different episodes have Babs singing over the action. "Come To The Supermarket In Old Peking" and "Happy Days Are Here Again". I'm only on episode 5, so there may be more later.

Jane Lynch does an excellent job in the episode she's in. I've watched all the episodes. It's a fun show. And when the main character starts going to parties, there are a few screaming queens at the parties. (Where's the onion dip? You'll get it when you watch the show). And Alex Borstein better get the Emmy because she is consistently excellent through the entire season. Watch it if you can!

I’m only on Episode 4, I’m mostly interested in her performance opportunities though he parents are well played. I think the unfortunate thing is that the person she has the most chemistry with is Luke Kirby, who plays Lenny Bruce, but it’s not like she’s going to have a developing relationship with Lenny Bruce?

Love the music as well which sounds like it’s been seriously remastered. They must’ve got a broad licensing deal with Columbia.

Gawd, they’re really losing me in Episode 5. Why’d they have her go into retail? So boring.

Michael Zegen needs to get that mole removed. It's unsightly.

[quote]Why’d they have her go into retail?

Because she doesn't have secretarial skills and nice Jewish girls didn't turn to prostitution like Holly Golightly.

This show just doesn’t know what is interesting about it. Keeps focusing on this boring, tepid marriage drama. Could barely get through it.

I was hoping the husband was going to get hit by a bus or something at the end. They need to focus on the comedy aspects, and Midge and Susie and the parents. The husband is a stooge and my interest almost went out the window anytime he was on.

Midge did lose me a little bit when she "outed" Sophie Klien--who had been very gracious to Midge--but it did make for interesting conflict.

Looking forward to season 2 and I hope it isn't a long wait! Hopefully Amazon is happy with the reception, because this thing sure wasn't cheap to make!

How'd ya like my episodes as the Russian fortune teller?

SPOILER: Her turning on Sophie Klein was deeply contrived. The problem with this show can be summed up in the last few minutes of the season - instead of showing us Midge's routine they follow the stupid husband out the door and focus on him - who cares?! Then they cut back to her for a close up. I wanted to see her routine! Tony Shaloub is great though.

SPOILER: The turning on Sophia storyline was there just to create conflict. The writer/showrunner wanted a roadblock to Midge's successful rise. At first, I thought she would follow the path of Lenny Bruce, constantly getting arrested. But they dumped that storyline early on. I think they should have brought the parents in on her comedy career and they could have been a more interesting roadblock than the husband or her getting barred from gigs.

And I do agree that they focus too much on the husband. I understand that they are trying to show what a woman in the 1950s culture had to deal with (secretary, salesclerk, nurse or wife were the only options) and I don't think the writers know how to chart a story around a successful woman comedian's rise to fame. So they pad it with the husband storylines. But I think they are very loosely basing this on Joan Rivers life. In the description on imdb, they say the plot is the rise of a woman comedian from Greenwich Village comedy clubs to Johnny Carson's couch. But we haven't seen any intent that it's her wish to be on Johnny Carson.

I have a read only a couple of replies because I don’t want spoilers, but I decided to start watching the first episode and maybe the first three if it was any good.

I thought, at the time, they were 30 minute episodes. Well, I just started my fourth fucking episode and I really need to go to bed.

Very interesting show.

I just watched the first two episodes. It is very well done. :oving Alex and Rachel especially.

Including a song from Barbra Streisand's first album was a glaring error since it takes place in 1958 and her first album was released in 1963

R10, Torch Song stole that from dozens of old films. My Great Grandmother did this 100 years ago.

R28, POSSIB:E FUTURE SPOILER:

I read an interview with Sherman Palladino, and she has several seasons plotted out with Mrs. Maisel ending up on Johnny's couch in a finale episode. Either season or series.

The only thing I don't really like about the show is I don't find the pivotal stand up routines particularly funny. But the casting's very good, and the production design is steller.

[quote]I don't find the pivotal stand up routines particularly funny.

I think there's two reasons for that. It's still early in the character's career, so they may not have her very funny so that they have room to grow her comedy act in future seasons.

Secondly, her comedy is more stream of consciousness and real life experiences so it may not be hysterical funny. I think in the old days, only Phyllis Diller was able to pull really funny material from ever day experiences. (I still laugh at the joke that she told about not getting any sex from Fang so one night while he was doing his pushups, she slid under him). Joan Rivers made her comedy through sarcasm and insults. And the others, like Whoopi Goldberg and LaWanda Page made their comedy by being nasty and you laughed more out of shock than actual humor. But I do agree that her comedy is more situational and obviously very feminist as she continually talks about "Why are men/husbands so awful?"

R34? Maybe it's just lame writing. No one writes lame material in order to give a character room to "grow." And LaWanda Page and Whoopi Goldberg are completely different generations of comedy - Whoopi Goldberg didn't even do stand up comedy, she did character sketches.

Maybe don't try so hard next time.

I'm lazy. What's it about?

The Palladinos are hacks and terrible for women. And homophobic hacks, at least to gay men. Gay men were the target of their jokes on Gilmore GIrls without there actually being any out gay men on the show (until the reboot), and even then gay men are worth mocking because, going by the jokes, apparently we're all Liberace, bag toting, sissies. And according to Lorelai, it's weird or icky to see two people of the same sex kiss. At least they made the two straight female leads such horrible people who were too and the dream kid turned out to be a colossal bitch-snob and failure. The 50s are perfect for their ideals (girly girls and manly men and no gays in sight to confuse things).

Why exactly should I watch this shitfest with a "planned" ending that sounds as bad as GG?

[quote]no gays in sight to confuse things

I think they infer a gay man at one of the parties she goes to. The screaming queen that says, "Is there any onion dip?"

And while it's not spelled out, I think that Susie's character will eventually go the lesbian route.

She actually "looks Jewish" despite being an Irish girl. Never saw her in anything (didn't watch Gossip Girl, OITNB or HoC). Is she any good?

It's great. The story is super plus the look is wonderful, the apartments and the clothes are a treat.

Yes, the look of the show is really excellent.

[quote] In the pilot, she stole Harvey Fierstein's joke from the movie of Torch Song Trilogy where he gets up in the middle of the night and primps himself so that when the alarm clock goes off in the morning, the partner sees him all freshly made up.

R31 is right. I have a friend, now in her 60s who told me years ago she did this when she first married in 1968.

Thanks r31/r42. I never knew anyone actually did that. Were their husbands not smart enough to notice they looked perfect or did their husbands wish for them to do that?

[quote]R43 Thanks [R31]/[R42]. I never knew anyone actually did that. Were their husbands not smart enough to notice they looked perfect or did their husbands wish for them to do that?

I have some vintage beauty advice books by the actress Arlene Dahl, and she writes that you should get up early and apply a little lipstick and eyeliner. And she advises going to bed later than your husband, so you can take the day stuff off.

Men knew so little about what women wore etc. that they probably though makeup was also a skin conditioner, or something...

Ironically, it was either Heda Hopper or Louella Parsons who once wrote that only Arlene Dahl and Elizabeth Taylor were naturally beautiful enough to not have to wear makeup. It's really quite depressing that one of the most beautiful women in movies was still terrified of letting her husband see her as she was born.

Priscilla Presley did not appear before Elvis without make-up.

R46 Sad. Look how naturally beautiful she was, too.

[quote] Were their husbands not smart enough to notice they looked perfect or did their husbands wish for them to do that?

It's not as if men were seeing a lot realistic portrayals of women in 1959

Priscilla actually looked a lot like Elvis.

[quote]R49 Priscilla actually looked a lot like Elvis.

Didn't he have a twin that died? Or was that James Dean.

There’s a Liberace joke in Mrs. Maisel too.

Look at her face in R47 -- looks like a young, femmy Elvis. Trans-vis!

Ugh, r38 and r51, thanks, now I don't care if I miss it. I hate the Palladinos. Most of this shit came from Dan, who must've felt emasculated having his wife be his primary employer. All they see is gay men as sissyfags. Fuck 'em.

It's a fun little show, there's no need to overanalyze the writing. The AV Club is screaming because there are no black people in it and DL is screaming because there are no proud gay men in it. In a show set in the early 60s.

Alex Borstein is tremendous and I immediately sensed an Emmy nom for that speech she gives in her apartment.

[quote]The AV Club is screaming because there are no black people in it

How many black people do they need? One of the women she works with at B. Altman's is black, even though probably in 1958, they wouldn't have had a black salesgirl. There are black people in the audience at her comedy club and there is a black man at one of the parties she attends.

Now where are the Puerto Ricans?

[quote]R55 There are black people in the audience at her comedy club and there is a black man at one of the parties she attends.

Unless I'm mistaken, there's also 3 black jazz musicians, and one of them appears in a few other scenes with Alex Borstein. His character runs a news stand.

It really can't be stressed enough how fab the clothes are on this show. So pretty. And I've never seen a knit sweater (or is it a wool bolero?) like this. How does one get INTO it??

(They showed it from the back, too, and it doesn't look like there's an opening. Maybe there's a zipper on the side??)

[quote]Unless I'm mistaken, there's also 3 black jazz musicians, and one of them appears in a few other scenes with Alex Borstein. His character runs a news stand.

Oh you're right, I forgot that part. She's in the Village Vanguard with Lenny and they go into the alley to share a joint.

R60

I think they have the costuming Emmy in their pocket.

I am truly enjoying this. And I hated Gilmore girls with a passion!

Okay, you guys convinced me. I"ll give it a try.

A caveat I have is there's too much of the dad character. He's not really fun, and I'm sick of his kvetching up and down and all around..

The costumes are fantastic. Looking at old family photos, people looked classy and happy then. I wish dressing like a slob or a 15 year old was no longer ok.

I love when Susie visits Midge's apartment for the first time. The dialogue they wrote for her is great.

[quote] R64 The costumes are fantastic. Looking at old family photos, people looked classy and happy then. I wish dressing like a slob or a 15 year old was no longer ok.

The women's underwear (though it made the clothes look great) was incredibly uncomfortable....rubber girdles that came down your thighs, super confining bras...

It's nice they do acknowledge this in the series at one point, showing and discussing the marks those wretched contraptions left on your body.

It's a beautiful-looking show with an interesting storyline and good acting. The first modern TV show I saw that focuses on a Jewish family in the 50s and an aspring female comedienne.

However, the show does have its problems. The writers of the show are good at writing situational comedy - but not standup jokes. Which is disappointing because this is a show about the stand-up circuit. The show depicts the main heroine (and other supposedly talented or legendary comedians) perform - often accompanied by an eye-rolling obligatory shot of their audience laughing their heads off - but the jokes aren't that funny. Perhaps standup in the 50s was that lame, and the show simply faithfully recreates corny, old-school humour. However, it's not entertainingly funny for a modern audience.

The other big problem is the same as plagued Palladino's "Gilmore Girls" in the final seasons: the main heroine often acts as a spoiled, entitled, self-centered brat, who has a silly axe to grind with her over-generous, doting parents. Palladino might think that kind of signature "Gilmore-esque" stock character is endearing, but often they're just insufferable.

Very true, R66.

At family gatherings the women would eventually say, "I can't wait to get home and take my girdle off."

[quote] At family gatherings the women would eventually say, "I can't wait to get home and take my girdle off."

That's true. I remember an old lady at church saying that to my mother. I started laughing so hard my mother pulled my face into the side of her dress out of embarrassment.

Her jokes aren't funny but her delivery is spot on.

This is a good show and wonderful acting from the leads especially Rachel Brosnahan. Loved her as Rachel in House of Cards and the actor who plays her hubby played a young Bugsy Seigel in Boardwalk Empire. I knew I saw him before but I can't believe he's 38 years old. Tony Shalhoub is hilarious as the dad.

This series is worth watching and I binged all 8 episodes.

The so-called Upstairs at the Downstairs in episode 4 @ 38:00 with the comedienne talking about counting sheep was filmed in The Monster. Spotted the scones first then saw the bar and the doorway to the bathroom on the right.

^^^Sconces not scones

I can't believe Brosnahan also played Rachel on House of Cards! Girl's got the range.

[quote]R74 I can't believe Brosnahan also played Rachel on House of Cards! Girl's got the range.

I didn't know that was her! She was WONDERFUL! Great character....

Just watched 2 episodes and love it!

R76 The episodes really fly by. I'm going to watch them again.

r54 who is screaming that there are no proud gay men on the show set in the time period as is? As I read the comments, it's saying this is good cover for the Palladinos.

And I watched an episode. Standards are low if this is supposed to be a good, fun show.

I'm loving the show but they make Altman's look like a chic boutique. In reality it was a huge department store that covered the entire block from Fifth to Madison, 34th to 35th. And the directory by the elevator shows the Charleston Garden Restaurant to be on the first floor, when in reality it was on the eighth floor. I mean, really, what New York store would waste precious ground floor space on a restaurant?

Why do things like that bother me?

If you want a glimpse of inside B. Altman's watch the Dick van Dyke movie Fitzwilly. It's one of the lesser shown Christmas movies. But they filmed inside B. Altman. It also stars Barbara Feldon and Edith Evans.

Great show, needs more eps went through them in one weekend lol.

R80. I'll have to watch it again. I remember the scenes in Gimbels, but not Altman's

I really am getting too old. I guess because I lived through this era, albeit as a youngster but from a Jewish family on the upper Westside, it all seems utterly artificial to me.

r83, it's a tv show not a documentary.

The very first scene where she's giving herself a toast at her Jewish wedding cause she's Jewish so we need a couple of old men in prayer shawls even if Jewish men never sat down to eat in prayer shawls just so everyone knows she's Jewish and it's a Jewish wedding.

Typical American TV overkill.

Yeah you're right r85, we need more subtle portrayals like "Kim's Convenience" or "Little Mosque on the Prairie" like the CBC has.

Pointless bitchery.

The first four episodes have been fun and engaging and interesting and not at all what you would expect in some ways, and exactly what you would expect if you are watching a comedy/drama set in that time period.

Are you the kind of people that bitch about Seinfeld because parts of it weren’t realistic enough?

Rachel Brosnahan reminds me a little of Kristen Stewart, the pale skin, dark hair and beautiful face. I hope she steals all of Kristen's roles. She's a much better actress and much more likable.

Ok, you sons of bitches in Hollywood. While I appreciate that you nominated Rachel Brosnahan for a Golden Globe, I do not see the far superior Alex Borstein anywhere. Now, I can excuse a Golden Globe but she damn well better be nominated for an Emmy or there will be HELL TO PAY!!!

Wasn't Alex nominated for a Critics Choice?

I finished watching the first season tonight. Like Gilmore Girls, it’s mostly a very charming show with a few so-so patches. But it’s worth watching and Brosnahan is outstanding. I think she’ll win a Golden Globe.

Finished first season. It's very good, sometimes veers into soap opera/over the top territory and some characterizations (her father in particular; Lenny Bruce as some sort of comedy Santa Claus) veer into stereotype, but mostly on point.

Definitely some minor nits (pork chops at the kosher butcher) but the main one I had was how they were affording the apartment and the Chanel and Dior clothes on a Columbia professor's salary. Rose's family may have had money--she'd been to school in Paris--that would be the only explanation. Also why Miriam/Midge has a decided New Yawk accent while her mother and brother don't.

Clothes and set design are great, picks up from Mad Men in recreating that era.

Final thought: this is the third Very Jewy show from Amazon, and Jewy in a solid, realistic way that you only used to see in indie films, not the pretend way Seinfeld was. (Red Oaks and Transparent are the other two Amazon shows.)

^^Also seemed pretty clear that Suzie was a lesbian and yet no one even mentioned it or noticed.

Finished watching this weekend. Loved it. I hope Rachel Brosnajan and Alex Borstein both win Emmys. There are some false moments here and there, but it's a pretty fun, frothy show.

r93 I thought she was too but then it kind of seems like she has a big crush on Lenny Bruce, just like I do. Maybe she's just starstruck though.

I also thought Suzie was a lesbian. But they may be leaving that ambiguous for a future season. If they make Suzie lesbian in Season 1, it doesn't leave them a lot of room in future seasons.

The Jewish flavor is amazing from this goy perspective. It actually brings a bit of subtlety into it, excluding the prominent Menorah on the entry table.

Just finished ep5 and the last few scenes were uncomfortable.

I know that such behavior is less common today, but it was rather surprising.

I'm watching this now and I love the period detail and clothes (it supplies my Mad Men fix) and I also love Rachel Brosnahan and Alex Borstein and Kevin Pollak. The biggest problems I am having with the show is Joel is so unappealing and that it's just not terribly funny.

The only big continuity problem I have had so far is that it's not clear how Midge's parents are so loaded when he's just a Columbia professor, but as someone else explained upthread, we will probably discover they have quite a bit of family money. But this should have been explained early on.

[quote] Also why Miriam/Midge has a decided New Yawk accent while her mother and brother don't.

My sister has a very pronounced Wisconsin accent because she has lied in Minnesota all her life. My parents were born and raised in Massachusetts so they don't have a pronounced Wisconsin accent; I was born and raised in Wisconsin, an used to have a Wisconsin accent, but have lived in Connecticut and California and now in Seattle, so I no longer have a Wisconsin accent.

Mystery solved!

[quote] The other big problem is the same as plagued Palladino's "Gilmore Girls" in the final seasons: the main heroine often acts as a spoiled, entitled, self-centered brat, who has a silly axe to grind with her over-generous, doting parents.

Are we watching the same show? Midge's parents withhold sympathy and kindness from her when Joel leaves her. I would not call them over-generous except financially; they are certainly not very doting towards her.

I just love this show! Binged with friends over New Years Day - we all loved it.

Everyone is brilliantly cast - and it looks amazing! Kudos all around.

R99 - I assumed there was a bit of family money in the background somewhere. Much was mad over the mother having been schooled in Paris - so they weren’t exactly ghetto. That the father was a respected academic too - clearly he didn’t have to go into a trade or industry. Both sides would appear to have quite a bit of dough. They didn’t blink at sending Midge to Brin Mawr ro do a fairly useless Russian lit degree either! - maybe we’ll get more later as time goes by.

Did you see the review in Vogue? Clearly they’re besotted with the frocks...

[quote] Mystery solved

Not at all R99

Midge's accent is a class marker and her mother and private school teachers and Bryn Mawr would have beat it out of her as soon as it started. (Though your story with the WI/MN overlap and all the detail was incredibly DL)

It's an oversight by the showrunners-- they didn't reconcile the fact that they wanted her to be Joan Rivers, e.g. a real New York Jewish broad, with this very upper class intellectual background they've created for her.

There's a lot that doesn't make sense if you think about it too hard in the show (having all that money on a professor's salary--your theory would be valid R100, but he was thrilled AF to get that job at the end because, among other things, the pay would be so good.

Just easier to overlook the inconsistencies and enjoy the scenery, It's a great show.

R101 - even if they were pretty well off - you don’t think they’d be thrilled at making even more money? I mean - one thing I’ve learned (and we see it every day with the Trump regime!): wealthy people love making even more money.

Besides - the family fortunes from generations past may now need some topping up. And the money may have come from the wife’s side of the family - and so Abe is very happy to remind everyone what a good provider he is too. Lotsa reasons that this could all easily work.

I loved it. Very well done.

I hope it wins a buttload of Emmys, especially for Costume Design and whatever set design is called. Is that Art Direction?

Whatever--it deserves awards for both sides of the camera.

Marveloush Mishesh Maishel

There are some anachronisms in the dialogue, and it is pretty nigh impossible a female comic would have been liked for saying the feminist things she says onstage in 1958. But as one critic said, you have to approach it as a heroic fantasy.

I don't understand who Jane Lynch is supposed to be in the later episodes--she's a famous Queens comedienne famous during the Depression, but I don;t understand who she's supposed to be. Sophie Tucker? Fanny brice?

R107 - don’t fret! Tho there are few characters who are stated to be real life people - like Lenny Bruce, Red Skelton, etc. - many others - including Mrs Maisel herself! - are based on one or more real life characters - but they are tweaked to suit the purposes of the storyline.

I assumed Jane lynch’s character based a lot on Sophie Tucker too - but that they’d cut and pasted a few other things to suit where they needed the plot to head. Certainly the timeline there was revised!

I think the key is to not overthink it.

I loved it

Fanny Brice was the one who was extremely poised and elegant in private life, lived in fancy surroundings and dressed to the nines.

How Jewey is this show?

very

R111 Not enough. I love the lead actress but RB is putting the Jewish act on too thick. She looks too WASPY to boot. The deal with the pork chops is very unYiddish to say the least.

On episode 5. Love it so far. Like other have said, the costumes and set designs are beautiful.

I think Rachel does a fine job as a jewess. She is Irish American in real life. So happy she won.

Rachel won the GG for best actress in a comedy, the series also won. She took her bf, Jason Ralph, the lead actor in The Magicians. I didn't know they were together and in a serious relationship. What a cute couple..

She seemed intimidated by the entire event, head down,almost mousey. I think the advice they should give all these presenters/awards recipients is to act like someone receiving an award. They would never portray someone in a role so mumbly and timid.

[quote]What a cute couple..

Somebody needs to tell her not to wear her hair up. She doesn't have the face for it. She looks much better with hair down.

R117, R118, sounds like nagging Jewish mothers.

Here is Rachel looking gorgeous with her bf.

Yes, r119, she looks much better in that picture. Hair down is her best look.

I could not make it through the first episode.

Incredibly trite and boring.

And Mad Men set such a high bar for authenticity of this timeframe that this show looks completely cheap by comparison.

I am pretty shocked by the level of praise for this show. Its the Get Out of television.

R101, Joan Rivers 'family were Jewish intellectuals. Her family were high placed physicians in Tsarist Russia who fled the revolution and lost everything. They were horrified that she went into show business. Her parents expected her to go to medical school at a time when few women did.

Though she grew up in Brooklyn, she was not exactly a yenta from the block.

Did anyone really not recognize Susie as a lesbian? Only on DL.

Couldn’t Brosnihan be part Jewish? Her first name is Rachel, after all.

Binged it this weekend, and I adored it. The lead actress is fantastic, and so is Alex Borstein, but I especially like Marin Hinkle as the mother - she looks like Andrea Martin's clone, wears the clothes beautifully, and I love her low-talking conversational style. I'm not familiar with the Gilmore Girls genre/style, so wasn't distracted by that.

Jane Lynch was excellent as Sophie Lennon, she reminded me so much of the Mom character from Futurama.

I find the husband boring, both the actor and the character. Midge barely interacts with her children, to a neglectful degree. I've read Phyllis Diller's autobiography, and I know that she managed to create her career while also being a loving mother to five children, most of whom remember her fondly as a caring mother who paid attention to her kids.

Hearing Streisand's songs renewed my admiration for her talent. Hadn't heard her music for years, and she had become a bit of a DL joke in my mind.

Pointless bitchery indeed.

Mrs Maisel’s family life inlcuding her relationship with her husband is necessary as it provides the conflict that feeds midge’s act. You’re not supposed to like Joel — he’s a putz and that’s why it felt good when suzie told him off in the end. But his character is necessary and as the father of midge’s children, will be involved in her life in some capacity throughout the run of the show

Also in the last episode, when Joel tries to flirt with her, Suzie says you’re barking up the wrong tree, essentially outing herself.

Very well done overall

One thing no one has mentioned is how beautifully choreographed many of the scenes were. An example is the link below. But there are many others throughout the season —e.g. when midge first walks into the department store to the frilly things song, the Christmas party in the last episode etc

Late to this show but I watched the first two episodes of S1 and like it a lot! I was about to give up on the first episode, once I got past the gorgeous scenery and costumes, I was getting bored. But then her scene at the club was like BAM! That's what I was waiting for. Very well done. Nice tits, too. A gay man can appreciate a beautiful female physique and aesthetic, too.

I really appreciate shows that so beautifully film certain time periods, like this and Mad Men.

I loved this show and so many of the performances in it!

Art direction and costuming are out of this world, and Rachel Brosnahan (sorry for any name misspelling) is a true find!

Not a *perfect* series (some of the subplots and characters were grating and overstayed their welcome at times, and I too didn’t really “get” the stand up jokes as being laugh out loud funny), but no show is 100% perfect and there were several standout episodes and moments.

Overall, a totally unexpected experience that I was really happy to be pleasantly surprised by.

One of the most likeable shows to come along in a while (for me).

And thanks for this DL thread turning me onto the show in the first place!

Loved Luke Kirby in here as Lenny Bruce as well!

If he had been cast as Joel (the husband) instead, the audience would probably not be as excited for her to leave him...

Trying the other Lenny image again..

Ugh, didn’t work :/ Sorry; here’s a totally different one...

[bold]‘The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel’ Renewed for Season Three by Amazon[/bold]

[quote]"Mrs. Maisel” was initially ordered by the previous Amazon regime with a two season commitment spread across 18 episodes. Season 3 will likely get 10 installments.

[quote]Season 2 is set to premiere later this year.

Yay!

Go Midge! Go Midge! Go Midge!

[bold]'Marvelous Mrs. Maisel' Recruits Zachary Levi for Season 2[/bold]

[quote]Levi will recur in season two of the Rachel Brosnahan series as an eclectic Manhattan doctor who suddenly starts orbiting the Weissman/Maisel world. Additional details about his character are being kept under wraps.

Eugh, isn't he a fundie or something?

Loved this show.

Love the show but just want to put this here for posterity.

^^ That's unfortunate.

So that's not Alison Brie? Seriously?

Finally watched this series. It was a lot of fun. The lead actress was quite appealing, and excellent in the stand up scenes. Luke Kirby as Lenny Bruce was magic whenever he appeared. That OD will be tragic once we get there. I immediately thought of Joan Rivers, this isn't her life but it was clearly the inspiration for the character.

[quote]I don't understand who Jane Lynch is supposed to be in the later episodes--she's a famous Queens comedienne famous during the Depression, but I don;t understand who she's supposed to be. Sophie Tucker? Fanny brice?

It is a fictional character like Midge, but yes one that was inspired by Sophie Tucker.

[quote]Midge barely interacts with her children, to a neglectful degree.

I appreciate she isn't a great mother, that she had that spiel of how she sometimes regrets the decision. This character can border on Mary Sue, and being a neglectful mother helps give her faults, makes her more human.

I knew someone on DL would have the same thought I had, given we are given the impression that her family was quite wealthy, I was surprised to find the father was "only" a professor. Which is a respectable paying career, but hardly funds the rich girl lifestyle.

I can't wait for Season 2.

Interview about Season 2

[quote]“We left Midge in a pretty triumphant moment: She’s finally arrived into Mrs. Maisel, a stand-up comedienne,” series star Rachel Brosnahan said at the streamer’s Television Critics Assn. tour panel for the show Saturday, “but good things can’t last long.” The relationships between Midge (Brosnahan) and Susie (Alex Borstein), as well as Midge and Joel (Michael Zegen) will continue to be the center of the show.

[quote]“Season 2 is big…And we feel like we’ve got, for the first time in our career, the support from the brass, the actors — we have all of the pieces to go big or go home,” Sherman-Palladino says.

[quote]“Season 2 is big…"

I wonder what she meant by that. I wouldn't mind it staying smaller in scale but I can't wait to see it now.

Finally caught up with this over the weekend, watched the first three episodes. A delight, and I look forward to more!

Midge is going to the Catskills!!

I love this series so much. Can't get enough.

I loved the first season. Although it took place before I was born, the New York it depicted reminded me more of the Manhattan that I started visiting as a kid than the NYC of now. It made me miss that edge, and that place where a professor could live in a fabulous apartment on the UWS and possibility was around the corner. Now, Starbucks is around the corner. I hope season 2 is as great as the first one.

And we all know that the actress is Kate Spade's niece, non? There is a striking remembrance.

ALEX BORSTEIN WON A WELL DESERVED EMMY!!!!

The writing is all over the place and really uneven and PLODDING.

Who told Tony Shaloub he could do comedy? Not to me he can't.

[quote]The relationships between Midge (Brosnahan) and Susie (Alex Borstein), as well as Midge and Joel (Michael Zegen) will continue to be the center of the show.

Ughh, Joel. No.

There's tons more chemistry between Brosnahan and the actor playing Lenny Bruce.

The actors for both sets of parents are great. Shalhoub is a highlight. R152 doesn't know what she's talking about.

[quote]Who told Tony Shaloub he could do comedy?

The producers of "Wings," perhaps?

No, no more Joel. Why would someone like Midge want to marry a big old Zero like Joel?

It looks really good, I have been meaning to watch it.

When is the next season coming out?

[quote]When is the next season coming out?

They haven't announced yet. My guess is November.

Things we do know:

Amy Sherman-Palladino likes to reuse actors. Expect to see Kelly Bishop and Lauren Graham in Season 2 or 3.

They've already agreed to a Season 3.

Jane Lynch will return to play that weird character she played in Season 1.

[quote]The producers of "Wings," perhaps?

Well, it must be the writing because the ENDLESS scenes with Midge's parents are PAINFUL....and the "Jewish Parents stereotype" schtick is NOT FUNNY!

It's too NY Jewish for me. We've already seen enough of that over and over and over and over again. It's like WWII movies or movies about guys who have strained, noncommunicative, devastating relationships with their fathers or superhero movies. Just, enough. Give me something new. I hate the husband's face and I loathe the music. But I like Brosnahan a lot and have liked her in Manhattan and in HoC and something else I can't remember. But she also should have been entry #1 on the Actors With Giant Heads thread. Her head must be a solid 3rd of her entire weight. I wonder if she can even put on t-shirts or if she has to have hats specially made. Her neck must be in constant pain. That is a giant, giant head.

Brosnahan is tiny--like 5'1'--so, less of a large head than a tiny body. But that's a lot of screen actors--big heads, long necks, small bodies--there have even been studies on it--one theory is that they're proportioned more like children so we're drawn to them and feel protective of them.

And, yeah, it's very much a New York Jewish milieu--so Woody Allen, Dirty Dancing--it's been done, but I do like the performers and the look of the show. The comedy acts and nightclub scenes are, by far, the most interesting parts to me. Brosnahan completely deserved that Emmy.

The show's growing on me but I still don't know why the actor playing Joel was cast. No attraction there whatsoever and the gap between his front teeth is something his parents would have had fixed when he as young. If he wasn't such an asshole, the conflict over her not taking him back would have been magnified.

r162: Judging from the few photos I've seen in promos for season 2, there will be a new love interest for Midge, good looking and I think, judging by actor's name which I don't remember, Jewish. Joel was never supposed to be appealing to the audience. Obviously they write it so you want her to get rid of him ASAP. But a somebody says upthread, he'll be around because he's the father of her children. I loved the show, after resisting for a while assuming it would have too much cliched shtick. It's really well done and Rachel Brosnahan is amazingly talented. (But I hated the red dress with the hanging strap that she wore to the Emmys.)

Watched the first season recently and liked it. However there is something synthetic about it that makes me think I will never love it. I'm just too aware that that these are quippy characters to get caught up in their lives, except maybe for Susie with her deep wells of hurt and anger. She's the only character the writers aren't trying so hard to be cute with, and Alex Borstein is killing it. Actually the whole cast is great but they aren't always given great stuff to work with. This is the first role I've seen Brosnahan in and I'm already a big fan. What a talent! Lots of actors can land a funny line, but she's got the whole comic mind/ comedian's persona down. And she's got charisma to burn. The spoiled Midge could be hard to like but Brosnahan is too darn charming.

Random nitpick: I found it odd that a young, smart, semi-hip Jewish comedienne hadn't heard of Nichols and May. She's their ideal audience!

Looking forward to the next season. Just hope it's more focused on the comedy world, and the dialogue is free of anachronisms.

I tried to slog through the first season, but I can't. ITS TOO FUCKING BORING.

Watched the first three episodes and then when I sat down to watch the fourth, couldn't drum up any enthusiasm for it. I find the monologues pretty tedious, including her schtick at her wedding. Just obnoxious and not funny. When she was supposed to introduce the jazz trio and instead went into the long, unfunny harangue about herself, it was cringe-worthy. Everybody would have been thinking, "Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down."

I had to stop binge watching after awhile. Brosnahan sounds like Carmela Soprano..

I've always loved Luke Kirby, so was happy to see him in this, but the rest of it seems to be overpraised. Brosnahan is fine but her character is a bitch. Shalhoub is nothing but dour. The husband is an asshole with no redeeming qualities. I guess when they met, his wit was supposed to be so attractive, she'd dump the preppy blond guy but all he did was come across as a smarmy loser. And Midge is a fucking lousy mother. Her kids are going to hate her in the future.

I do wonder why they added children to the story. I think it would have been more interesting if Midge had just married and her mother was pushing her to have children but the comedy life was pulling at her. But if Lucy Ricardo can fly to Hollywood and to Europe and leave Little Ricky behind for weeks at a time, I guess Midge can too!

R168, She's been a good Jewish girl, of course she married a Jewish boy. She was doing everything she was expected to do. The point is that she's not a rebel when the show begins. She bleaches her hair and has premarital sex, but that's about as far as she's willing to go until her husband cheats on her.

Women at that time were popping out babies early and often--it's the baby boom. That said, the show doesn't handle the childcare thing well--Midge is both working seemingly full-time and hitting the comedy circuit at night and her parents just seem to go with it and babysit.

Well the second season is here now. Have at it, bitches!

I thought the second season wouldn't be out til this weekend. Look forward to starting it.

Loving the Catskills segment. What a trippy world.

R143 That OD will be tragic once we get there.

True Story: our little Faysie Dunaway briefly lived with Lenny Bruce when she first came to Manhattan as a young actress. In the 70s there were rumors she did heroin, which I imagine probably aren't true, but can be traced back to this romantic association.

Maybe there will be a stuck up, insecure, overly intellectual actress who figures in the plot at some point.

I was enjoying but having some issues with the first few episodes.

I thought the Midge doing an impromptu set at a Paris club through that customer translating was too much of a stretch. And in episode three there is no way way Midge would go that over-the-top at the wedding. I liked the idea, but after the first couple of of faux pas she would have read the crowd and realize the mistake. It went on too long.

I just go to episode 4, the catskill episode and it was the first great episode of the season for me. Loved it. Also doesn't hurt they had Nolan Gerard Funk gratuitously walking around in very little clothing.

I watched all of Season one and thought the writing was TERRIBLE!

IT'S NOT FUNNY! AT ALL!

I like her husband (ex?) ,but oy gevalt with the Jewy stereotype UNFUNNY hateful parents! Way too much of them! Tony Shaloub is actually a very limited actor, and he can't score a laugh to save his life, and her mother is just a cunt! It's not funny enough to be a comedy and it meanders all over the fucking place before getting to the POINT whatever that might be! Midge's stand-up set is coming from another universe, it is not her character's "voice" at all!

Worst Season One guest star: Jane Lynch! WTF was all that about? Terribly written subplot and ridiculous character adding nothing!

I've seen a couple episodes. Boring. And totally unbelievable.

Why is Midge’s manager in trouble with the mob? I must have missed that plot development.

Is the second season as good as the first?

[quote]r178 Why is Midge’s manager in trouble with the mob? I must have missed that plot development.

This is revealed as the episodes play out.

But notice they never initially specify who they're working for.

R177 is right. There isn't a touch of credibility to the show -- it's a female fantasy of what life might have been like in the 50s for a woman comic. I actually knew some of these women (elder gay here) -- there was nothing funny or glamorous in the incredible shit they had to put up with, in the men they had to suck and fuck, in the audiences who booed them, in the managers who cheated them, etc. It was hell, not this ridiculous, bleached and sanitized version of the late 50s.

Btw, think what you will of her and her comedy, but Phyllis Diller was one of the most remarkable women I ever met in my life, stronger than you could possibly imagine. She once told me that the only way to survive in comedy in the 1950s as a woman was either to fuck every man who wanted it, or create a persona that no man wanted to fuck. She chose the latter, and it worked for her.

They had an entire episode where Jane Lynch, playing a Phyllis Diller-esque character, tells the main character she needed to create an fuckable persona in order to be successful in the comedy world r181. Your anecdote was a plot line.

R182 -- I saw that episode, and that woman had about as much in common with Phyllis Diller as Melania Trump does. What actually, finally, turned me off t the program was when Mrs. Maisel then goes on stage and attacks her -- completely out of character, and solely a plot device. That's the major problem with the program -- no character, all shtick comedy plot.

I don't watch it for believability; I watch it for the rapid-fire dialogue, the great clothes and sets, and the fine comic actors.

I loved the first season, and just watched most of the first episode of season 2: i couldnt finish is because I hated it too much. It was far too jarring to all of a sudden have the location moved from the UWS to Paris. It was too much too soon, when what I loved about the first season was NYC of that era as almost a character in the show. I don't want to see a show about Paris, thank you. And the parents' characters work as UWS creatures; they don't work outside that milieu. It makes you realize how annoying they are. They are better foils than characters.

The Jane Lynch character in season 1 is undoubtedly based, in part at least, on the once very famous Sophie Tucker.

I assumed that the Jane Lynch character was based on Phyllis Diller, whose stage persona was an ugly loudmouth housewife, but whose offstage life and clothing were very elegant. Non?

It's a really cool show if you like period pieces...MAD MEN had a little more heft that gave it more accessible in a crossover way.

Yet there are many great things about it: the lead actress is a delight (especially when you consider her range, last playing a doomed lesbian hooker on HOUSE OF CARDS), the clothes and sets are peerless, the cast is uniformly excellent, and the dialogue and story are engaging...though not groundbreaking. Oh well.

I usually skip the standup sections because honestly, I've found very few standup comics who actually make me laugh. There are better laughs in what goes on OFFstage, as when the Jane Lynch character snaps "GO" and starts to Susie leaves the room. Then Lynch explains she was dismissing her fancy twin dogs, who bound past Susie.

Jane Lynch's character wasn't mean to be an exact match of someone, which is why they went with a fictional character versus using a historic comedian, but it definitely was reminiscent of both Phyllis Diller and Sophie Tucker.

R185, stick with it. The Paris excursion plays out quickly.

R81, there are tons of gritty shows and movies about how being a comic sucks. This is not that show, nor should it be.

I meant R181, not 81.

R50 yes Elvis had a twin that died at birth.

Is Mrs. Maisel having a lesbian relationship with that very butch woman?

I get sick of so much screen time being given to the dad. He did become funny to me for a while in the middle of Season 2 when he feels betrayed by both his kids, and then when he's interrogating the fiance ... but usually I just want him to shut up.

It's like the creators are intent on cramming Tony Shalhoub down our throats. Maybe he'd only accept the role if they agreed to build it up, and that's why we're stuck with too much of him now.

Nolan Gerard Funk is ridiculously hot and actually very talented (with a great voice). Glad that he got a glorified cameo showing off his hot body, but sad that his career is in the shitter. Better than nothing or doing soft core porn ala THE CANYONS, I guess...?

Better to walk around naked on television, than walk around naked at gay bars like he used to support himself doing r196.

Nolan Gerard Funk? That's his real name?

Ok....

Fun fact: Phyllis Diller was a concert pianist.

I love this show but the first episode was kind of a drag with Midge doing a translated stand-up act in Paris. Fast forward.

I keep giving it a chance, but I keep disliking the show. I loved the character of the mother when she played the snotty UWS matron, but her character has been completely rethought out, and bears no resemblance to last season. The father is the least interesting character in the cast, yet they have significantly beefed up his role. Seeing old-time NYC was one of the greatest joys of last season, yet it barely makes an impression this season, what with jetting off to Paris, and then to the Catskills. And I am tired of Mrs M not embracing her comedy career. One night she swears she will never give it up, and then the next morning she denies that she's doing it. It's tiresome. What a disappointment, because I really loved the first season, but I have not enjoyed any of the four episodes I've watched so far. I don't believe I will watch any more.

I enjoyed the second season, overall. You can't help but root for Midge. It was great seeing her slowly becoming a star and killing it in her first tv appearance.

I'm a potty mouth myself, but for some reason the abundant use of "fuck" is a bit jarring to me this season. I don't remember it being used so much in the first season.

I think the problem with the show is that she's just not funny. I never made it out of the first season because I found all of her monologues to be completely insipid. Her wedding, the impromptus, the intro of the jazz musicians where she takes over with a steam-of-consciousness harangue -- all of them missed the mark.

Perhaps another problem would be that she's not fighting for her life here. If the comedy thing doesn't work out, oy vey, she'll just find another husband or even finally take back the ugly ex. I don't get any sense of risk that would lend urgency to the scenario.

There are a lot of great things about the show. The production values are stellar, and it’s fun to watch huge scenes where all of that Amazon money has been spent to redo an entire street. The clothes are to die for. I’m old enough to just barely remember the tail end of that era, and it rings true on a superficial level.

The actors are great. I’m fascinated by Marin Hinkle, who plays Rose. She look like a clone of Andrea Martin. I do wish she would speak louder, though. This is a show for which I definitely need closed captioning.

Rachel can’t be five feet one because she is about five inches taller than Alex, who is five feet tall.

I do have a problem with some of the dialogue, which uses too many contemporary phrases. The profanity is excessive, even for the comedy world. Lenny Bruce’s use of it was very shocking, and no one was using the F word in public like that.

It's weird that I loved Rachel in the first season and after two episodes in to season 2 I am seeing her more as a "schtick" than a character.

Who's the lesbian?

R185- completely agree. The Paris thing felt like a contrived, jump the shark moment that normally happens around season 5 or 6 of a show. Seems super early for the show runners to send the cast to Paris. I hated it. At the end of the day, it is all classic Sherman / Palladino- their main characters are the only smart people in a room. For example, the opening scene with Midge working the switchboard while every other woman around her is a raging incompetent and hot house flower is their trademark. On Gilmore Girls, Lorelei and Rory were always the smart ones and everyone else in their orbit were patronized and condescended to by them. Also- I find the Tony Shalhoub character and his portrayal insufferable. Again- Amy and Dan fall in love with a character and run them into the ground. It’s a frustrating watch.

[quote]The Paris thing felt like a contrived, jump the shark moment that normally happens around season 5 or 6 of a show.

Don't we know it.

I love it. I don't watch for it to be a authentic portrayal of life in the 50s for a female comedian - it's pure escapism. The dialogue, the sets, the clothes - the overall styling - it's all beautifully done. If you value substance over style, then I can see where you won't like this show. The only thing that irritates me so far about S2 is the supporting and bit players are becoming more like the townsfolk from GG. S1 was a bit less obvious in that respect.

I love it. Alex Borstein is my favourite. She is absolutely amazing.

The show is great. Plenty of professors, especially at Columbia come from Upper West Side money. Also, great apartments were much cheaper then. My Grandparents had an 8 room Duplex in the Beresford on CPW and paid $400 a month until it went coop. We sold it for a million. it's now worth between 8 and 10. Also, it is revealed that Columbia owns the parents apartment.

I always kind of wondered how Midge's parents are so wealthy.

Columbia owns a lot of apartments, which they rent to faculty and staff (and students). The apartments used to be a little below market rate. (I do not know if they still are.) This was a big incentive for faculty to stay at Columbia even when they could get more money elsewhere (and pay more rent).

They should have made Midge childless. She acts like a 50s Sex and the City single. Always perfectly dressed and made-up, attending all kind of functions: and with never with her kids

I know, R214, like when they went to the Catskills and just left the baby in the car.

I love Zachary Levi as her new love interest. He's perfect: he looks as Jewish as his name, but he's handsome in an astronaut kind of way.

[quote]Columbia owns a lot of apartments, which they rent to faculty and staff (and students).

Same with NYU. My brothers knows a professor who has an NYU apartment.

Zachary Levi needs to let his eyebrows grow a little. They are too clipped and the space between them and above his nose is always so shiny.

I like that Midge isn't a great mother. As she admitted, she never particularly wanted to have kids but that is just what you do.

She has enough money that other people can do the tedious work for her. Many wealthy people throughout history to the present day let nannies do the majority of the work.

Zachary Levis introduction episode really made me assume the character was supposed to be gay. So much focus on how he is not interested in all the girls who have tried and the scene at the end seriously felt like he was cruising Joel. But I guess not.

r216, Zachary Levi ain't Jewish, not even close.

Quite the opposite in fact, he's something of an UBER-Christian.

[quote]r202 ... for some reason the abundant use of "fuck" is a bit jarring to me this season.

I thought Levi's character was gay too and seemed to have more chemistry with Joel than Midge. I raced through season 1, but this season is a bit of a chore. I want more Luke Kirby as Lenny Bruce. I understand why he can't be a central character, but Luke is so sexy and I need to see more of him. I applaud Tony Shaloub staying fit as an older man, but I don't need to see him in a "romper."

Sillies. They didn't have gay people in 1959.

Enjoyed the first season but had trouble getting through the first episode of the second season. Don’t understand what Paris has to do with the story line.

Zachary Levi is beautiful but I agree there seems something odd with the character. I don't know if this is deliberate and we're supposed to realise how much better her ex-husband is or something, but he does seem kind of 'off'.

Nobody mentioned Season 2 opens with Barbra Streisand singing from Hello Dolly.

The only reason for the Paris storyline was because Miss Amy wanted a free trip to Paris and what better way to get someone else to pay for your luxury trip to Paris but to write it into a storyline?

She's pretty in the show but ugly IRL!

Can someone ID the nude male model in Episode 3, Season 2?

[quote] Nobody mentioned Season 2 opens with Barbra Streisand singing from Hello Dolly.

This bothered the hell out of me.

This song was in the movie version of DOLLY, which wasn't released until 1969.

DOLLY takes place in 1890.

MRS MAISEL is set firmly in the 1950s, so the song doesn't fit in either of those two eras. It's an anachronism.

Alex Borstein RULES this show. If the actress playing Midge ever does a salary walkout, she's gone because Alex could totally carry this show!

And that Italian boy doing the tv through the window was fucking hilarious!

is Alex Borstein the lesbian?

[quote]is Alex Borstein the lesbian?

Her sexuality is never discussed.

Finished the season. I still quite enjoyed it, but overall I don't think it quite had the magic of the first season. There is also a lot of focus on Abe this season, he isn't a bad character, but he got too much focus. I don't know why they decided to move him so front and center this go round.

Interesting that she is opening for a black singer for the next arc. One thing this show has done is really brush aside the ugly truth of race relations of the period, but I'm guessing they will be playing into that next season.

Ending the season with her running back for Joel felt very anticlimatic to me. I liked how at the opportunity of the tour she completely forget about Benjamin, I think that was an important character moment of showing what is actually important to Midge...but then ending it with her running back to Joel seems to undercut that sentiment.

It was great to see Luke Kirby renact that Lenny Bruce sketch.

And now that the season is over, the whole opening Paris bit with Rose going off the deep end was definitely a pointless excursion. And it wasn't that great, at least the Catskills arc I thought was actually money.

I finally finished all ten episodes of Season 2, and rather disliked it.. I was very disappointed, because I loved Season 1 so much. The writers seemed to have forgotten what made the characters so special in Season 1. Shalhoub might be a fine actor, but there is no reason his character should have been so central to this season. That whole bit with his exercise outfit? We really need ten minutes of him talking about it and then, later, wearing it? Was that anyone's idea of funny, let along remotely amusing enough to be brought up in three different episodes?!? And the mother has completely lost her iron fist social climbing steeliness, which made her such a wonderful character in Season 1. And Joel's parents were just horrendous people. I did think it was a telling moment at the end when it was clear Midge did not think of Ben when she made her decision, but, then, that would make her a character that becomes someone whom it is hard to root for. And why didn't Susie tell her about the meeting with the Jane Lynch character?!? And Paris?!?! That arc had absolutely no payoff, and no reason to have existed, other than to start the show on the wrong foot. I watch so few tv shows, and this was one of the few I look forward to watching it, so it is doubly disappointing that it has lost its way. (The only other shows I watch are Frankie and Grace, The Good Fight, Crazy Ex Girlfriend.)

[quote]I did think it was a telling moment at the end when it was clear Midge did not think of Ben when she made her decision, but, then, that would make her a character that becomes someone whom it is hard to root fo

This dream is more important to her than her love life. You could say the same thing about everyone who has become a successful entertainer, if it is not the most important thing for you, you are unlikely to ever make it.

Maybe this has been discussed before, but is the Jane Lynch character based on someone?

Re: Jane Lynch, her character is a Sophie Tucker, Phyllis Diller compilation. You can always tell when a writer is not from New York. The mansion was located in the east 90's in the 200 block which makes it east of 3rd Ave. No mansion was built that far east because of the elevated train that existed back then. They were all west of Lexington and if it was a major house, it was on Fifth Avenue or just off.

R239. In this case, Im not sure it is the writer's fault so much as the location scout's. It was probably closest to what they needed and was available, and the location scout was not too concerned with exact geography.

I just find everyone annoying except Alex Borstein. The whole thing with Midge at the wedding getting up on the chair was completely stupid and the I agree the swearing and modern word usage just seems really noticeable and unnecessary.

Isn't the material Midge performs also too advanced? Women comics, like Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller, weren't ranting about men like Midge does. They more poked fun at men.

Phyllis Diller's set was about her husband "Fang" but it was never angry. Things like "I haven't had sex in awhile, so last night when Fang was doing his pushups, I slid under him." And there was plenty of self-deprecation like "Last week I bought one of those peek-a-boo dresses. When I wore it, everyone peeked and then they booed."

Joan Rivers' sets were about men, but they never seemed as angry as Midge's are.

Phyllis Diller was like someone's crazy aunt walked onstage. She had two things that were always a part of her act: a crazy outfit and a raucous laugh.

Jane Lynch's character is not based on Diller at all, though many here say it.

Diller was of Midge's generation. Her humor was sexual. She and Rivers (and others) staked out new territory for female comedians. They came at it from different directions, but the were playing on the same field. Lynch's ethnic "character" humor was something very different.

Diller was quite attractive out of her stage getup.

^^That's after she had a boatload of plastic surgery.

[quote] Jane Lynch's character is not based on Diller at all, though many here say it.

Lynch's character is partly based on Diller in this fashion: offstage, Diller was a very elegant, well dressed intelligent woman. She had trained to be a concert pianist. Onstage, she was a bawdy and silly. They put this across that Lynch's character has a very different persona offstage than she did onstage. And people of my generation are more familiar with Phyllis Diller than with Sophie Tucker.

Likely, R242, but it wouldn't make for an interesting series if Midge just told corny jokes.

R240, The real address of a building does not have to coincide with the address in a script. Rosemary's Baby was not identified as the Dakota in the film but as the Bramford but everyone knew where it was supposed to be set.

R47, can't help but think that is the bio grandma of paris jackson.

[quote]r233 is Alex Borstein the lesbian?

I want Jane Lynch to do her own, more frank spinoff - [italic]THE MARVELOUSE MRS. MUFF DIVER

I thought the awful Jane Lynch character was an amalgam of Gertrude Stein and Judy Canova.

The Jane Lynch character is a lot more like Fanny Brice, Judy Canova, and that crowd from the 40s.

I think that people keep bringing up Diller because they just do not know any history before 1980 and lump it all together.

It's funny how in the Catskill segment, everyone forgets that Midge has two children. They're sitting watching fireworks and no children are in sight. Midge runs back to NYC, who's taking care of the baby? They can't rely on the staff of the summer camp to watch the children 24 hours per day.

I assumed there was some sort of camp for kids program that all the children would be involved in.

[quote]I assumed there was some sort of camp for kids program that all the children would be involved in.

I'm sure during the day, but whose taking care of the baby at night? Like in the scene with the Hawaiian dinner. Joel, his parents and Midge's mother are all there and Midge's father "takes a walk." Who is watching the baby?

The should have made midge childless. I know it’s a TV show, but you can’t really buy into it with such glaring misfires. Plus, the girl is still in diapers/a toddler and requires a lot of care.

Couple thoughts: 1.) Agree with Rs152 and 241... I love this show, but the writing IS scattered/inconsistent and the modern phrases that would have never been said in the late '50's are really obvious to me in Season 2 especially.

2.) It is really weird that the Suzie character does not get more attention for being a "butch woman" during that time. Other than the comment she makes to Joel about "barking up the wrong tree" and the mob hit men asking her if she's a boy or a girl, her appearance it totally ignored. I would think that especially she she and Midge are friends/manager/managee romance would have been discussed... or is Midge too self-absorbed to really care to ask why Suzie's not dating? At the very least, I would think she would get more disgusted looks from people. Hell, its 2018 and I (a butch-ish lesbian) get disgusted looks from people all the time (especially in public restrooms where people mistake me for a supposedly pervy man in a women's restroom)!

3.) Rachel Brosnahan looks so much like a young Patty Duke to me (with dark hair)... I think its the big blue eyes. 3.)

Suzie walking around with that plunger is too fucking funny. Alex deserves a second Emmy for this season because her character is so well acted!

The anachronisms in the dialog ("pet-friendly"??Really?) drive me crazy, but it is funny how people think no one cursed in that period. Just because movies and TV did not allow it does not mean it did not happen.

I think that it is true to period not to question the dating of an obviously gay person. Even in the 70s, it was okay to be gay, as long as you did not say you were. And no one would ask you about your dating life, because it would mean talking about one's homosexuality--which was more taboo than the work "fuck."

I did a search in Amazon Prime TV for ‘Joan Rivers’ and came up with a daytime talk show she did in the mid 1960s, possibly a local/regional show. I watched one episode and her opening monologue was rather feeble. She was hardly fierce back then. It reminds me that female comics were doing very conventional material until the 1970s.

Another search brought up an episode of Merv Griffin in which Jayne Mansfield shows up with a gaggle of children and about five tiny dogs. Little Mariska was quite lively and spent much of the show chatting with Arthur Treacher. It is surreal, and well worth watching.

[quote] I watched one episode and her opening monologue was rather feeble. She was hardly fierce back then.

You have to separate what Joan was allowed to do on tv versus what she was allowed to do in a private club like Cafe Wha. TV was very restrictive back then.

Thanks, R260, that explanation makes sense to me. It still seems weird that her appearance doesn't get any attention/disgusted stares or comments (although, I'm not sure how many she needs, I mean, there has been a couple at least), but I guess I was under the impression that obvious gays/lesbian were practically pariahs back then no one cared to associate with.

If you read novels of the time (or even watch some films) , you see that there were obviously gay people there who were acceptable to some people, to a point.

There were some people who would treat a butch like a pariah. But in this show we only see Suzy with the people who are friends and colleagues---the people who would not treat her like a pariah.

There is a book from 1939 called Quicksilver, about a theatrical tour. It is really helpful in this regard because It has a number of gay and lesbian characters. None are "out," but the straight characters are often defined by how much they acknowledge gay relationships and how close they are willing to get to the gay characters.

Other books of the 30s and 40s and 50s feature a smaller number of gay characters, but even there you can see that nothing was black and white. Hell, you can read biographies of gay people of that time to get a sense of how complex things were.

What Stonewall and the activists in the 70s did was put homosexuality on the table. People could no longer pretend that the butch next door was just a tomboy who might marry a man . In Maisel's time, you could acknowledge that Susy is a lesbian---or just ignore it. In ten years, ignoring it would stop being an option.

This show takes liberties. The Legend of Lizzie had closed by the Summer so there's no way Midge could have seen it. In fact, it was a bomb having only played two performances.

Fun fact: William Daniels (1776 and St. Elsewere) was in it.

R265 William Daniels was also Dustin Hoffman's father in The Graduate. He has always pinged big time.

[quote]r265 This show takes liberties. The Legend of Lizzie had closed by the summer so there's no way Midge could have seen it. In fact, it was a bomb having only played two performances.

I think that's okay. The main goal of a literary writer is to tell an engaging story (otherwise no one will finish it), and fudging some dates or facts or whathaveyou is alright ... especially since only 5% or so of the audience is ever going to notice a minor inconsistancy.

I was reading an old book about historical fiction ("The House of Desdemona: Or, the Laurels and Limitations of Historical Fiction" by the German Lion Feuchtwanger) and it was pointing out that if a dramatist sticks strictly to facts, the work will be lifeless. That the choice should always be made on the side of what serves the story, and has dramatic impact. The point being that we have history books to document history, and dramatic works to convey drama.

I assumed THE LEGEND OF LIZZIE was a made up production for the episode, it's such a funny choice.

The switchboard at B. Altman is the same one used when Angelina Jolie was a Pacific Bell supervisor in "Changeling."

This show really took a nosedive in the second season - thanks to hokey, jokey writing, mainly.

I gave up on it after four episodes - I kept waiting for it to get better, but it never did.

Emily Nussbaum in The New Yorker just slammed it "Teeth rottingly twee" was one phrase. I enjoy it myself, but it is a fairy tale. Rebelling had a higher cost than is shown. But it's gorgeous to look at and some of the actors hit it out of the park. I could do without Joel and so much of the parents.

I didn’t buy that the mom who was a sophiscated art aficionado in Paris, would suddenly be a prude with a nude male model..

The mom works best as this uptight, pretentious bitch. Having her as the laid back, hippie artist just didn't fit the character. No one wants that out of Rose.

True, R272. Rose's character in the second season is completely different than in season 1. I much prefer the character is the first season.

Who was the hot lifeguard in the Catskills scenes? He had a very nice body.

Nolan Gerard Funk r274, he was talked about upthread. He is very hung under those shorts, used to be a gogo dancer before the acting started taking off.

[quote] There were some people who would treat a butch like a pariah. But in this show we only see Suzy with the people who are friends and colleagues---the people who would not treat her like a pariah.

Susie is constantly being harassed on the show for being so butch--both men and women on the street and in clubs are constantly either mistaking her for a short man or cruelly calling her one. And both her brother and her brother in law treat her like a pariah--apparently so does her mother.

The people in the Catskills liked her because they assumed she was a plumber and so got past her butchness immediately, and then Midge likes her a lot (which is always to Midge's credit). It is weird to me that they never acknowledge on the show that Susie has a sexuality, though.

[quote] The anachronisms in the dialog ("pet-friendly"??Really?) drive me crazy, but it is funny how people think no one cursed in that period. Just because movies and TV did not allow it does not mean it did not happen.

It's true and not true. People said "fuck" and "shit" a lot during this period if they were lower class, but it was trained so deeply for upper-class and upper middle-class women NOT to say those words (especially "fuck") that it really seems anachronistic that someone like Mrs. Maisel would have no problem using this word.

One thing about swear words, too, is that they go in and out of fashion. Most people in the US just did not say "fuck" or "shit" or "asshole" or "cunt" that much before WW2--they had other swear words they used much more frequently that we would think today were mild but which were considered shocking at the time. I remember the creator of "Deadwood," David Milch, pointed out that even though his show had the most profanity per minute of any show in the history of television, it was actually quite anachronistic. People in the Old West would swear constantly by their own standards, but the swear words they used were the same ones Yosemite Sam uses: "goldarn," "blasted," "tarnation," etc. So rather than have people think his characters were ridiculous, he had them use "fuck" all the time as a deliberate anachronism, to show the lawlessness of these people and 5hte fact that they spoke in ways people in that era's polite society would never use.

[quote] I could do without Joel

I couldn't. He's my favorite character. Michael Zegen is so cute.

You are right r277 and I love hearing those old phrases. One that changed over time is "Up your alley" which used to mean up your ass.

If you want to see more of Nolan

Exactly r262. There is a big difference between the types of jokes comedians could say on TV and at nightclubs at the time. Seeing their televised material only gives you one glimpse into their material.

But yes comedy as a whole was still pretty broad. That is why Lenny Bruce is so famous among comedians, he was the first one to popularize that type of comedy that pushed the envelope.

The writing is incredibly weak, it's not historically accurate, and honestly I find it to be remarkably boring.

I adored the first season and am liking the second but still have a few episodes left. I agree that they shouldn't have given her children. Also, Tony Shalhoub has a huge part this season but I want more Mrs. Maisel and a little less of the manager.

Joel needs to have that mole near his eye removed.

Is Michael Zegen gay?

Ugly Joel needs to be removed from the show.

I love Joel.

What I like about Joel is that he is the only one that seems "true" New York. He gets the speech patterns correct for that "New Yawk" sound. The others sound like they just graduated from drama school and are practicing their Standard American English.

Michael Zegen grew up in Jew Nersey, Rachel Brosnahan in Wisconsin.

The writers are getting lazy. In Season 2, episode 7, Midge makes a big deal about leaving Yom Kippur to go perform for a man who can get her bigger gigs. We never see the performance, all we see is Suzie and Midge after the performance. That's just lazy writing.

Zegen is not terribly attractive, I agree. He seems like such a pipsqueak, especially in comparison to Zachary Levi. He needs to work out or something.

If you saw Zegn in View from the Bridge...he was sex on legs in that.

Zegen has never in his life been "sex on legs", he wouldn't even try to claim such a thing.

Count me as liking the character of Joel though, I think he is a good part of the show.

Zachary Levi could take his pants off and dance his dick right into my mouth. I don't think I'd get hard.

Zach Levi needs an eyebrow stylist. Too much space between his brows and his forehead and nose are too shiny.

I've finished Season 2 and there is one thing I didn't understand. In the Catskills sequence, there is a weird guy that keeps getting Suzie's attention and saying, "Criss Cross." What was that about? It's the only thing that wasn't resolved by the end of season and offered no explanation whatsoever. Was it a storyline that was cut or did I miss something?

I forgot about that r296. What the hell was that about

I like Rufus Sewell who plays the drunk artist Howell! He was Lord Melbourne in the Victoria series.

[quote]I like Rufus Sewell who plays the drunk artist Howell! He was Lord Melbourne in the Victoria series.

That was a good episode. A very well acted monologue about pouring out everything inside you for your art.

[quote]I like Rufus Sewell who plays the drunk artist Howell! He was Lord Melbourne in the Victoria series.

He's playing Sid Luft in the Renee Zellwegger biopic about Judy Garland. And DL fave Finn Wittrock is playing Mickey Deans.

[quote] You have to separate what Joan was allowed to do on tv versus what she was allowed to do in a private club like Cafe Wha. TV was very restrictive back then.

True. My mother, who was a very typical, uptight 1960's suburban housewife, came back horrified from a live Totie Fields (née Sophie Feldman) performance. I guess she expected to hear Totie spend an hour talking about her daughter's messy room like she did on the Mike Douglas Show. Mom would not tell me any of the jokes she thought were 'too blue'. Sadly, by the time I was old enough to see her on my own, Fields was dead.

I saw Totie Fields on the Phil Donahue Show. All she did was bitch about how it was more expensive for women in the world. She told a story about how she went to buy a pair of pants in the women's department and they told her it they would have to charge her to tailor them. She went over to the men's department and they said they would tailor for free, so she bought the pants in the men's department.

After watching her on Phil Donahue, I wondered how anyone thought she was funny. She just seemed like a bitchy old lady.

So what was the point of having Gerard Nolan Funk and his non period physique on for if only to give him three and a half scenes? What a waste, I wanted her to have hot torrid sex with him and maybe a threeway with the ex husband. Or at least an affair with the Dr. played by Zachary Levi since they initialy gay baited us with his character.

The actor playing Lenny Bruce is really good but nobody here talks about him.

R276 "It is weird to me that they never acknowledge on the show that Susie has a sexuality, though."

There was one very brief scene when Suzie is lying on her bunk in the employees dorm cabin and some girl mentions the hunky lifeguard who always wears nothing but swim trunks and under her breath Suzie says something like "Does he dress like that all the time?" To me that sounded like she might have been attracted to the lifeguard. I could be reading her wrong but it was very subtle and might have been a hint being dropped. I will be disappointed if the entire series goes without ever revealing what Suzie's preferences are. From day one we are being led to believe she's a lesbian...but she might not be.

Just finished the season--more up and down than the first season--nope, didn't need the trip to Paris--but I did like where the season ended with Midge realizing that she was going to toss over her normal life in order to succeed. She wasn't really going back to her husband--she just needed the emotional/sexual connection because she realized she was never going to marry the doctor and settle down again. It made me think of couples like Bob Fosse and Gwen Verson who were separated for decades, but never actually divorced. There's the potential to go someplace really interesting here--though I don't know if the show will do it. The actors are capable of it, but the show's mostly been gorgeous production values and wish fulfillment. Making it clear that Midge is going to be a crap mother because of her career--well, that's a tougher sell.

[quote]r299 That was a good episode. A very well acted monologue about pouring out everything inside you for your art.

It had my favorite outfit, too.

I have to agree with others. Why did everyone use the word "fuck" so much in Season 2? It was really out of place. I can see Suzie saying it, but upper West Side Jews in the late 50s would have thought it too crude of a word to say aloud. I wonder what point Miss Amy was trying to make with so much usage of it.

From the looks of them and their apartment, Midge's parents would be of German descent, not particularly religious and would vacation in the Berkshires, Joel's parents are obviously Russian Jewish and not very well educated. The two sets of parents would despise each other, and the kids' different backgrounds--marrying up, marrying down-would have been a bone of contention in the tradition of West Side Story. And where are Midge's Jewish friends and where's the self-hatred about having a big nose or curly hair? That was something that almost every Jewish woman went through in that era. I could point out lots of inaccuracies--the rabbi eating dinner in a prayer shawl, the competition to have the rabbi break the fast, which smacks of Fiddler on the Roof rather than life on the Upper East or Upper West side. The larger point is that much more time and attention was devoted to getting the costumes right rather than depicting Judaism or New York Jewish society in that era authentically. I know people don't care but these things are done so badly that I really wish the series would focus all its attention on showbusiness,--obviously something the producer knows about.

[quote]R310 ...much more time and attention was devoted to getting the costumes right rather than depicting Judaism or New York Jewish society in that era authentically.

Midge is very grating. Can you imagine being around such a perfect person whom everyone loves all the time? Cloying

Sorry, 311, Representation matters--at least to the group being represented. That doesn't mean there aren't things to like here or that the show isn't watchable. The Jewish stuff is as much a contrivance as Sophie Lennon's Bronx housewife routine. But no one should expect high art or profundity from these producers.

[quote]r313 Representation matters--at least to the group being represented.

So, no Jews were involved in creating this series. Got it.

[quote]The actor playing Lenny Bruce is really good but nobody here talks about him.

I have always liked Luke Kirby. I think he's been in every version of L&O. Otherwise, I remember him mainly for Rectify. He is tall and Canadian.

^^^ You didn’t mention playing Gay in Mambo Italiano! And did his character in Deuce hookup with a guy in the baths or was that Ralph Maccicio’s?

You know, r316, I saw Mambo, Italiano so long ago, I forgot he was in it. And I haven't seen Deuce.

I love Luke Kirby. I guess this means I'll have to starting watching The Deuce.

I watched one episode of The Deuce. It was sufficient. Though I never went to Times Square much when I lived in New York in the 1970s, I miss it in that time period, and watching The Deuce made me too sad.

Now, if Jake had been the prostitution Gyllenhaal, it would have been a different story. But all that pussy, nah.

I watched all but the end of The Deuce. Luke Kirby's character was married with kids and did hook up with a guy in the baths (and then went home to wifey).

Kirbydong, r320?

Husband Joel isn't conventionally handsome but he is sexy.

I don't find anything sexy about the actor portraying Joel. His body as shown above is not bad but not enough to counter the looks and demeanor. Also, an office-bound Jew of that era would never have those pecs.

I want to chow down on Michael Zeger's dong. I find him intensely sexy.

r323, what does him being a Jew have to do with his pecs?

Disappointed in the ending.

Yeah, Joel is not all that, not attractive or sexy at all. I really liked Zachary Levi as the doctor.

Not as fun and fresh as the first season, but still worth it. Not sure why they had to have her parents jump the shark so early on. The whole Paris thing, although gorgeous to watch was senseless as was having her father all of a sudden turn into a hippy at the end.

Once they hit the Catskills though, it was back on track. Susie is FABULOUS! Love the plunger.

But sooo many loose threads and inconsistencies. I don't get how her dating the doctor turned into a marriage proposal all of a sudden. Also they seem to be very strict with her at B Altmans except when she wants to take a few months off to go on vacation. The kids are treated like her accessories too. But I'm willing to forgive all that because it so wonderful just to look at.

Also LOVE the baby in the drawer! And I think Jane Lynch asking Susie to be her manager actually made a lot of sense. Looks like they are setting us up for the 60s in the next season.

They were still having babies in the drawer in the 80s. I visited an aunt then who just had a baby and when she as tired, she put the baby in the drawer and the nurse took it and return the baby to the nursery. NO such things now. Women are discharged 8 hours later or the next day.

Alex Borstein is the star of the series. Every time she appears, this series shines, she is so damn funny. I don't find Mrs. Maisel as interesting as Susie. Susie needs to have her own comedy show.

I agree that the mother flying off to Paris was so unnecessary. I can't stand the mother, btw, what an insufferable useless character. Who is watching the baby while Mrs. Maisel works and the mother flew off to Paris? The kid will grow up a basket case.

Loved Season 1 once I got into it, but after watching Season 2 episode 1, which I thought was pretty terrible am having trouble wanting to continue. Does it get better as it goes along? (Season 2 that is).

[quote]Does it get better as it goes along? (Season 2 that is).

The middle section gets better. They go to a Jewish resort in the Catskills and the story picks up a bit.

It gets better, r330. The Paris episodes were ridiculous.

R231 here who whined about "Just Leave Everything To Me' showing up a decade too early in the opening episode.

Last night I watched 7 and 8 and was surprised to hear 'On A Wonderful Day Like Today', which was written for the 1965 musical THE ROAR OF THE GREASEPAINT, THE SMELL OF THE CROWD.

I guess they figure only a persnickety old showtune queen would care about such things

[quote]I do believe that the whole human race should go down on its knees

For what, r333? Or for whom.

R310 there was a comment made by Rose about how cute a child will look when she gets her nose fixed. Something like that.

I watched it and love many things about it, all mentioned here. What I don't love about the show is it lacks integrity. All of the inconsistencies mentioned above, the anachronisms (verbal and otherwise: that pizza box was all wrong in the psychic scene; nobody said "Good talk!" or even "whatever" in the contemporary way; Joel cursing out his father seems a stretch); not addressing the fact that she's a mother--it wouldn't have taken more than another sweep of the script to pick up on these things.

It's as if the storylines are built around scenes somebody wants to perform even if they don't move the story along. Agreed about Shaloub's stupid exercise outfit.

The doctor standing next to Joel smoking looked like it was going to go a different way. His character might well be gay.

I'm old enough to remember that nobody ever said the F word in regular conversation the way they do in this show--never. Everybody in the show says it practically every other line. Completely and utterly anachronistic. There are so many things that are off, stupid, wrong, unfunny, even anti-semitic (e.g., the Maisel parents were coarse but okay in Season 1, now they're appalling stereotypes in Season 2).

I really enjoyed Season 1 after I got into it. The Sherman-Palladinos totally lost it in Season 2. The only thing that is sometimes worth it is Midge's occasional routine and the beautiful settings and clothes. The episode with Rufus Sewell as the painter was modestly entertaining. I haven't watched the last couple of episodes yet and may not.

I think the show might get another season (probably already signed) but if it's as bad as this one, they'll be gone. To me, it's like two completely different people wrote these seasons (maybe it's true, since I read that Dan Palladino did a lot of Season 2)--one with a lot of talent and the other one a talentless, tone deaf hack.

Glad that some people liked season 2. Nobody ever has the same taste.

It's true that people didn't casually say fuck. I was surprised when Joel cursed at his father in a couple of scenes. That would not happen. I think Daniel Palladino is a very sloppy writer. He crams fleeting contemporary references in his scripts (Gilmore Girls) or gets sloppy with his verbal anachronisms (Maisel).

Too bad they couldn't get her husband, Jason Ralph from The Magicians to play her husband (yes, they're married now}. He's a real cutie, lucky girl.

The latest New Yorker has a pretty accurate summation of all of the series' shortcomings mentioned here.

The worst to me was when Midge says "play date" in one of her routines.

Rachel won the Golden Globe!

R342

Good for her.

That yellow dress at the GG did her no favors.

Poor Alex. She was really spectacular on both seasons.

Poor Alex. She was really spectacular on both seasons.

I really don't get some of the criticism of this show. It's not supposed to be a documentary.

I'm absolutely certain I'll love this show, I just haven't had a chance to see it yet.

I missed it, but I heard Andy Samberg made a comment during the Globes that the show was antisemitic? What was that about?

R346, who needs a Golden Globe when you have the Emmy? Some never get the statue—Debra Messing, ten time loser.

Yeah an emmy is more of a real award than a Golden Globe is. Alex Borstein is doing fine.

r349, I think that was supposed to be sarcastic.

Alex in the catskills musical was hilarious.

And I guess Amy didn't get enough of Paris, so we get to go back to Europe next season.

It is incredible to me that the second season is so cloying it is almost unwatchable. It gives me a headache!

I only got as far as the first episode of season 2 and had to cut bait. So fucking irritating.

I thought Season 1 was charming but S2 was annoying AF on so many levels. Though plenty charming too.

In S1 it was easy enough to ignore all the various inconsistencies because it was all quick enough.

But S2 just piles them on,.

So much of what happens is so contrived. Usually I can push that aside and just take what's happening for what it is, but this season seems to just pile it on heavy.

Biggest one being WTF watches the kids? She's out every night, are the grandparents always there? And there was one night in the Catskills episodes where everyone is out and I'm thinking "do they just leave the kids asleep?"

Then there are Joel's parents. Last season they were kind of over the top loud-funny. This season they've plunged full-on into antisemitic stereotypes. Especially the episode at the bank where the dad (Kevin Pollack) is making all sorts of anti-gentile remarks and the gentile in question is actually a friend of his son who is trying to help him. So WTF? I know Sherman-Palladino is Jewish herself, but the characters are just way too over the top and cringey. (I suspect her parents were like that and she's getting back at them?)

Biggest problem is that they can't seem to decide what the show is. Is it an over the top 70s style sitcom? A serious drama? Something else? Sometimes the dialog feels real and "peak TV" like, other times it seems like an episode of Golden Girls (to use a DL- appropriate reference point.)

It's a great looking show and there are some charming moments, but the overall inconsistency this year was tough.

Season Two was really a letdown after the charming Season One. It was a horrible idea to devote so much screen time to Midge’s father. I have no strong feelings about Tony Shalhoub one way or the other, but his scenes were pointless and endless. I watched the whole season because I’d invested so much time in it, but it got to the point that whenever Shalhoub appeared on screen, I’d pick up my phone to browse.

Agree R356

He was such a two-dimensional sitcom character.

That's sort of what I was rambling on about at R355 -- Midge, Joel, and even to some extent Susie, are three-dimensional characters with plenty of nuance to what they do.

All four parents are written as goofy two-dimensional stereotypes. It's like characters from a bad sitcom suddenly showed up in a scene from Mad Men.

I like the show, and I liked both seasons. It's not perfect, but it's a good comedy. Some of the criticisms are spot on, though. The anachronistic dialogue, the stand up comedy falling flat, Midge being perfect and how everyone admires her. I do like her parents, including Tony Shalhoub, but agree that they sometimes overused them. The Paris adventure was a bit strange, but I liked the Catskills.

Her new boyfriend, though, I was convinced was gay. Turns out he's straight and worships Midge, too, like her ex.

The Catskills bit was sort of charming, but according to my grandparents, completely overdone and idealized and mixed up two concepts--the resort hotels, where people generally went for two or three weeks, and bungalow colonies (as in "Walk On the Moon" movie) where people spent the whole summers.

Also there was no way Rose and Abe would ever spend their summer in a place like that. (Think this is mentioned upthread)--they were Jewish, but pretty removed from the outer borough/suburban culture--if anything Rose was quite the social climber in S1.

(Also unclear how Abe and Rose seem to (a) have unlimited funds but (b) are thrilled that the Bell Labs gig means extra cash for Abe--this is a classic example of ASP's lack of attention to detail. Assume the unlimited funds come from her parents who were wealthy enough to send her to school in Paris)

I found the tonal shifts in Season 1 difficult to accept. The seriousness was too often undercut by silly plot turns.

Season 2 is more consistent. It eliminated any attempt at seriousness and went for a much lighter tone. It is like a musical without the score. That made it more successful for me.

I loved the second season.

How DID Rachel Brosnahan win the best actress award for the dreadful Season 2 of Mrs. Maisel? Just a guess--but Jeff Bezos, who owns Amazon Prime, has a lot of money, and he was certainly present and accounted for at the Golden Globes. Rachel is a good actress and was great in Season 1 IMO, but am guessing the fix was in for Season 2. And yes, that yellow dress did not flatter her.

One more nit: the weird Yiddish naming thing.

While the show has multiple characters with Yiddish names like Feivel, Moishe, Avi, etc. the only Jews with those names in 1959 were either (a) Shoah survivors who emigrated to the US after the war and didn't bother to Americanize their names (e.g. very few), or (b) Hasidic Jews.

In the 1950s, it was highly unusual for most European immigrants of any stripe to keep their old country names, e.g., all the Luigis became Lous, the Moishes became Morts, etc.

And yet ASP has every third Jew with a Yiddish name.

Probably to remind the non Jews watching that these are Jewish people, because none of them look, act or sound like your stereotypical Jew.

[quote] Probably to remind the non Jews watching that these are Jewish people, because none of them look, act or sound like your stereotypical Jew.

Not true in the slightest R364. They're so stereotypical as to be borderline antisemitic. (Unless you were being sarcastic?)

[quote](Also unclear how Abe and Rose seem to (a) have unlimited funds but (b) are thrilled that the Bell Labs gig means extra cash for Abe

This sort of is unclear in the show. We know that their apartment is owned by Columbia University, so I imagine they live there rent free as part of Abe's teaching salary. But it is hard to believe that the three of them could fly to Paris on a whim and yet be excited by the extra cash that Bell Labs is paying.

And I think Joel's mother hiding money in their apartment is the stupidest thing I've seen on the show.

It cracks me up to read so many on here wanting realism from a FICTIONAL show about FICTIONAL characters that is a COMEDY. Comedy is usually exaggerated and has broad characters. If you want realism, go mingle with real people. I expect some things to be off in a comedy versus real life, and I don't care if there are inconsistencies because I get that this isn't real, isn't meant to be real, and it there for entertainment purposes. Please get some perspective.

One thing that bugged me particularly- Susie is supposed to be Queens born and bred but when she says ORANGE she says OR-inge instead of the way a New Yorker would say it which is ARE-inge.

R368, not everyone who lives in the same area pronounces words the same way. I notice that I say some words differently from neighbors or even family. There are lots of influences on language.

I picked that up too R368. "Orange" is a big tell on a New York accent and like everyone on the show, hers goes in and out.

[quote] Comedy is usually exaggerated and has broad characters.

But that's the thing R367 -- it veers between being that sort of comedy and being a more serious piece in the style of a Mad Men or similar drama. Midge and Joel are pretty fleshed out well-rounded characters who are not stock comedy characters, while their parents are more two-dimensional-- both fathers in particualr--and thus the characters don't always seem as if they belong on the same show.

I love this show but Midge just isn’t that funny.

R366, Columbia does not give away apartments rent free, but they are below market rate. (At least they used to be.)

One of the attractions of working for Columbia is the discount apartments.

I once spent the night at a Columbia prof's apartment and spent ten minutes trying to find the bathroom in the middle of the night. It was that big.

Midge should be a gay male. She's got a lot of pent up gay male energy.

Season 2 , startung when they head to catskills is boring as fuck!! They need to ditch the boring ex storyline already, who gives a shit about him.

Season 2 only started to get entertaining when they went to the Catskills.

I was going to complain about the lack of man eye candy but then they bring a well endowed nude model and a shirtless lifeguard to shut me up.

If Midge and Susie aren’t in a scene, this is so boring. The other characters are complete dullards.

"It is like a musical without the score." That's a great way to describe it.

Native New Yorker here: "orange" is indeed one of the tells. Others are "wait on line" (not "in line") and "coffee" (not overdoing it the way actors trying to sound NY do it but just shy of that effort).

[quote] On the negative side, it looks like they stole the life of Lenny Bruce and assigned it to a woman.

Lenny Bruce was a wealthy UES inhabitant whose spouse left him, and so he went into comedy? Who knew?

I thought they were stealing Joan Rivers' life for this.

[quote]I thought they were stealing Joan Rivers' life for this.

Was Joan ever arrested for one of her comedy sets?

OK, what am I missing?

Did the Prime trial. Finally getting around. Now I am not of the persuasion that only my opinion counts, not at all. I know it got raves, won Emmys and Golden Globes and I was really anticipating it, they even shot the butcher shop scene in the pilot on my old street. I am doing something I never do, I'm following thru the two seasons till the end though I just don't like it. Everyone including our heroine is a schmuck, there is no one to root for and I honestly laughed once in 12 episodes.

Stop watching it, then. WGAS?

Reading is fundamental Dude, I clearly said I'm following thru with it....I want to see something I'm missing that everyone else got.

Who is her dykey friend?

Was she dykey? Apparently in NY in the 50's including show biz there were no gay people.

Finally caught the first two seasons of this show, so I'm a little behind.

Reading through all of these comments, and I mostly feel the same way as the rest of you. Season 1 was definitely much stronger and more entertaining to me than Season 2. The second season takes a different tonal shift than the first. I still found it overall enjoyable, but the quality in the writing definitely drops and the inconsistencies are glaring and really sloppy.

I don't understand the love for Zachary Levi nor the praise for his good looks. I think he appears unattractive and fat in the show, and I think his acting is really weak.

The Paris story line went on too long, which is a problem this show has. It takes a bit (like Abe's romper) and drags it out until it seems pointless. The reason for Paris seems like it was to set up how unhappy Abe actually is in his life and career and how he can find happiness outside of his work constraints, which is obviously going to lead the parent's relationship to where it's at in Season 3 - more time together, traveling throughout Europe, etc.

The back and forth between Midge and Joel is another thing that is being dragged on for longer than it needs to.

Some more thoughts, ASP obviously has a type. What's with her weird obsession with lollipop headed brunettes with blue eyes? I'm surprised she didn't just plop Alexis Bleidel in for Midge. I bet she would have if Alexis could remotely act it.

And while I do enjoy the show, it seems like ASP just uses the same character types over and over. Midge's parents are basically Emily and Richard Gilmore and the relationship and the banter between Susie and Midge is basically Lorelai and Rory.

R387, I WWed you for finding Zachary Levi as unattractive as I do. Now I want to take it back because of your last sentence. I fucking love Joel. I want his pole, and would consider his hole (not something I do, generally speaking).

Michael Zegen is no less adorable than all of these puppies combined.

The one thing that really bothers me, and that nobody has mentioned, is the lack of motivation for Midge to become a comic. Where was the catalyst? Sure, she had one night where she finds out she's good at it, but there doesn't ever actually seem to be any drive or love of comedy, on her part, driving her to keep doing it.

The character should either love it with a passion (she doesn't give that off at all) or there should have been a catalyst where she needed to do it for money. As it stands, Midge just seems to be doing it because it's fun and a hobby. We never feel that she actually needs to or that she actually loves it.

R389, I didn't say that Joel is unattractive or shouldn't be on the show. I'm saying the back and forth in their relationship is played out.

Agree that ASP has a type but it's obviously been a winning combination for her, so why mess with the formula?

Isn't Zachary Levi super Christian or something? So I can't find him hot because of that alone, sorry not sorry. Luke Kirby is where it's at for me when it comes to this show. Man, he just oozes effortless suave like nobody's business.

[quote]Michael Zegen is no less adorable than all of these puppies combined.

There's PUPPIES?!?

Let me tell you something about Zachary Levi...

No really, let me tell you something about him. He might be uber Religious and some have said he's homophobic.

If that's the case, the one thing he surely is is self-hating.