The Shit Has Hit the Fan Part 2

Sen. Susan Collins says Trump’s comments are “a gross mischaracterization of whistleblowers. Whistleblowers have been essential in bringing to the public's attention wrongdoing, fraud, waste, abuse, law breaking, and I very much disagree with the President's characterization.”

That Susie... she knows how to shake things up.

**Latest Impeachment polling**:

YouGov/(9/24-26):

Support 47% (+8)

Oppose 39%

***

Marist/NPR/ (9/25):

Support 49% (+3)

Oppose 46%

***

Harris_X_/ScottRasmussen:

Support 44% (+3)

Oppose 41%

***

Morning Consult (9/24-26):

Support 43%

Oppose 43%

Rudy was just on Fox reading his personal text messages to and from people to prove how in the middle of this entire mess Pompeo and the State Department are. Then he blamed George Soros for the whole thing.

If Nancy et al explain things properly, he’ll be convicted. But a lot depends on that, and how crazy he starts to act while under stress.

They’ll need to keep him from blowing up the world while on trial, or starting war with Iran, or anybody.

Trump could be long gone by 1/1/20.

Link to previous thread.

”The complaint also alleges a pattern of obfuscation at the White House, in which officials moved the records of some of Trump’s communications with foreign officials onto a separate computer network from where they are normally stored...”

"Total panic" at the White House.

What could be the charges?

Campaign finance violations

Bribery

Extortion

Obstruction of Congress

Obstruction of Justice

Abuse of power

What else?

From investigative journalist Murray Waas:

Trump, Giuliani, and Manafort: The Ukraine Scheme

Hot Daddy Sheldon Whitehouse was on TV tonight. With Lawrence O The House has to do a lot of homework now to build a solid case. He believes the Republicans in the Senate will come around if the House gives them a solid case.It has to be "meticulously prepared."

IMO, I think that's too optimistic. Because nothing will ever be good enough for McConnell. Too many Republicans in Congress and outside of Congress are tied to Russian money. They Republican Party is filthy. They could all go down under the RICO statute for racketeering.

From R8's link:

[quote]Another person familiar with the discussions described the mood inside the White House as “shell-shocked,” with increasing wariness that, as this impeachment inquiry drags out, the likelihood increases that the president could respond erratically and become “unmanageable.”

Tee hee!

Trump? Responding erratically? Becoming unmanageable? Gee, what are the odds?

Justice Department knew about whistleblower complaint involving Trump more than a week before referral

Good front page for tomorrow's New York Daily News:

Continuing from the other thread on the Fox angle... The Vanity Fair story says there is internal division at Fox, not that Fox is abandoning Trump in this minute. What people see on Fox is rabid support from the OPINION division. The NEWS division is more critical of Trump and the two divisions are fighting as evidenced by the conflict between Tucker Carlson and Shepard Smith.

Legit news people sold their souls by going on fox (I'm looking at you Chris Wallace) .You can't was that taint off even if you are in the "news" division. Opinion side butters the bread and they will always have the upper hand at fox.

We're over 40% approval for impeachment already Trumpy's approval is somehow still around 45%.

That means the country is almost evenly split between cultists and those who want him out of office. Crazy times.

Who will be the first White House official to crack? They can’t all want to go down with this ship.

Were there any republican senators on Fox news defending Trump? Besides Graham of course. What was the narrative?

What does Rob Portman say about it? He seems half sane. We need a few R's in the Senate to start some sort of moral introspection. I think Romney, Murkowski, Portman, and dare I saw even DL non-fave Collins?

I have to believe that some people who watch Fox and see Ghouliani melt down weekly have got to wonder if he is all there? I mean he looks and acts totally insane.

OP's poll is bullshit. There should be a category that says he won't be impeached but he won't win in 2020. THAT is what I see. He will e permanently damaged--especially if the CIA whistleblower testifies, and they subpoena the stuff on the secret server. It's only going to escalate regardless.

And by the way--when he alludes to execution for whistleblowers--that's another charge they can add to the House's impeachment proceedings. That's intimidation of witnesses among other things and is also illegal. Every time this fool opens his mouth he adds to the charges.

R21, I am in the shithole known as Ohio and I can assure you that Rob Portman is anything but half sane. He is almost worse than Pence; a right-wing zealot who wants women to stay pregnant while giving their newborn babies guns upon their exit from the birth canal.

[Quote] ....sound horrible, an me sound guilty. HE WAS DESPERATE AND HE GOT CAUGHT. Adam Schiff therefore lied to Congress and attempted to defraud the American Public. I am calling for him to immediately resign from Congress based on this fraud!

The liar in chief is concerned about someone lying to the American public and wants him to resign. Haha.

Lots of foolish people on this thread. The ONLY thing Mitch McConnell cares about is his own personal hold on power. The very moment he calculates that Trump will cause the GOP to lose the Senate, and therefore Mitch McConnell to lose his personal hold on power, then Moscow Mitch will be on the phone helping Nancy Pelosi write the articles of impeachment against Pee Brain.

His majority in the Senate is small. The Democrats, though in the minority, still hold almost as many seats as the Republicans. With an election coming that will decide Moscow Mitch's fate in two different ways (the GOP share of the Senate and Mitch, himself, is up for re-election in KY,) he could easily decide Trump is more bother than he's worth and decide to flush the S.O.B. down the toilet.

Fasten your seat belts, gurrls. It's going to be a bumpy year.

[quote]giving their newborn babies guns upon their exit from the birth canal.

Pics please.

Rob Portman has no guts. He never expresses an opinion until he has heard from his masters. He's representative of the southern portion of the state, where guns and God reign supreme. It' s like two different states - the redneck south, represented by Portman, and the liberal north, headed by Sherrod Brown.

On the plus side: there's a feeling that for many swing voters, The Trump Show, starring Donald Trump as President Trump, has gone on for too long, that the ratings are sinking and that it's just not entertaining any more.

The impeachment drama is just going to reinforce that notion.

Also, this would be a good time to read Rolling Stone's story on McTurtle.

TL;DR-- he's been a friendless loser since high school whose only goal has been to gain power and be Senate Majority Leader and has no morals

Scarborough this morning said that anyone in the White House who moved Trump's dirt to the secret server broke the law and needs to get a lawyer. The rats will be jumping ship real fast.

I still hope for a Nixon situation and when there is more and more pressure from his own team he will hopefully resign.

Twitter thread that gives a little more context to what Rudy was doing and how that influenced then Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko.

The whistleblower's report helps us understand Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko's strange lies. 1. "Giuliani had met on at least two occasions with Mr. Lutsenko: once in New York in late January and again in Warsaw in mid-February."

2. "Beginning in late March 2019, a series of articles appeared in an online publication called The Hill. ...Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko — made a series of allegations against other Ukrainian officials and current and former U.S. officials."

3. The point is that Lutsenko's strange lies about VP Biden & US Ambassador Yovanovitch were PLANTED by Giuliani. Lutsenko tried to leverage his relationship with Giuliani (=Trump) in order to stay on as prosecutor general under @ZelenskyyUa.

4. "On 11 May, Mr. Lutsenko met for two hours with President-elect Zelenskyy..." The talk of town in Kyiv was that Lutsenko was trying to stay on & this was seriously considered. @ZelenskyyUa did sack Lutsenko, but the Rada refused to accept it.

5. "Mr. Lutsenko later told Ukrainian news outlet The Babel on 17 April that Ambassador Yovanovitch had never provided such a list, and that he was, in fact, the one who requested such a list."

6. "Mr. Lutsenko later told Bloomberg on 16 May that former Vice President Biden and his son were not subject to any current Ukrainian investigations, and that he had no evidence against them."

7. Although Lutsenko withdrew all his lies that Giuliani seemingly had inspired, he could not save himself. On August 29, the newly-elected Rada sacked Lutsenko, who was generally considered corrupt, at its first session.

8. The essence of the Giuliani-Lutsenko story is that Giuliani persuaded a corrupt prosecutor general in Ukraine to lie about prominent US citizens to the political benefit of Trump & his own pecuniary benefit. Does the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) apply?

9. Obviously, Giuliani operated at the instruction of Trump. What crimes did they commit?

10. Questions remain: Did Giuliani try to force Lutsenko on Zelenskyy to safeguard corruption in Ukraine Did Giuliani & Trump work for Putin against Ukraine, Europe & the US? (=treason) Who paid Giuliani for this, how much & has he declared it to the IRS?

11. The strange articles in The Hill appear that were publicized by Sean Hannity on Foxnews & Donald Trump Jr in a tweet appear in a new light. They were all involved in the Giuliani disinformation conspiracy about Biden & Yovanovitch. This should be a crime.

12. The big lessons @ZelenskyyUa needs to draw from his unfortunate encounters with Trump are that Trump always lies & stands on Putin's side against Ukraine, Europe & the US. Zelenskyy has little choice but to act with all US forces BUT Trump with a maximum of transparency.

13. The ultimate verdict is that the Giuliani conspiracy in Ukraine is not only criminal but also more sophisticated than one could have expected. Presumably the Trump gang operates in a similar fashion in other favorite parts of the world, such as Israel & Saudi Arabia.

[quote]There should be a category that says he won't be impeached but he won't win in 2020.

At this point, I'm pretty convinced that he will be impeached, as there are clearly enough votes in the House, even as more incriminating details emerge. I also think that there is little doubt that he will not be convicted in the Senate. That outcome is the first choice in the poll.

Dump will never resign because he is most protected and shielded as president than as a "private citizen," where he will be subject to all kinds of lawsuits and investigations by New York State, etc.

Another possible upshot in all this: they can go after Guiliani as Dump's personal lawyer in all this. And these charges are far more serious for Rudy than they were for Dump's other personal lawyer, Cohen. Now, seeing Guiliani go to jail because of Dump--doesn't THAT put a smile on your face?

And Barr--could he go the way of Agnew?

Happy Friday!

And now a Repug Rep. from Kentucky is calling for investigation of the secret WH server.

Clobber me but FoxNews is doing the best job so far of reporting all of this. The conflict within the organization is palpable and it makes for a much more interesting presentation.

Surprised to find you on Datalounge, Sean Hannity at R37.

Look, we all know, if it gets to the impeachment level based on the evidence given to the Senate by the House, the Senate will either agree to an impeachment trial (defending on how this escalates, and depending on a continued shift toward impeachment in the country) or the Senate GOP (read McConnell) will simply dismiss al charges.

Since there was no choice by Democrats here because Dump was destined, as Pelosi said, to "impeach himself," and since the whistleblower comes from the CIA, since this will just keep escalating--the damage will keep building. Regardless of GOP obstruction, this will be on a course of its own and destroy him in 2020.

That, as I see it, is the best case scenario. And it's better than nothing. Can you imagine if this never saw the light of day? But it did. Because the CIA (no saints, but still) is fucking sick of him and his selling out to Russia. The war is declared, all right--on Dump.

Oh do fuck off, r37. That's not even remotely credible statement.

NBC News on what insiders fear :

Another person familiar with the discussions described the mood inside the White House as “shell-shocked,” with increasing wariness that, as this impeachment inquiry drags out, the likelihood increases that the president could respond erratically and become “unmanageable.”

That concern was echoed by another source, who said that some around the president anticipate he will engage in more “impulsive” behavior, with pressure expected to build on him daily during the impeachment inquiry.

That’s sparking worries that Trump could display increasingly unpredictable behavior and lash out in unexpected ways — both a presidential and a political concern in an election year.

R38 I knew someone would be stupid enough to say something as you did. Hannity is fun to see sweating bullets over this and scrambling for explainations. Other segments show both sides on the subject and that's also something to see.

AWWWW.

Again, regardless of whether or not Trump gets impeached, voters are going to just get even more sick of the constant drama and want him gone in 2020, even if that means electing Elizabeth Warren.

If she's smart she'll pick That Nice Beto O'Rourke Boy as her VP since he's the only person running who has that charisma/empathy thing going and he'll make older swing voters feel comfortable.

Reaction to Trump impeachment.from our favorite princess.

Jesus, God. She looks like Jabba the Hut and I Dream of Jeannie had a baby.

[quote]Look, we all know, if it gets to the impeachment level based on the evidence given to the Senate by the House, the Senate will either agree to an impeachment trial (defending on how this escalates, and depending on a continued shift toward impeachment in the country) or the Senate GOP (read McConnell) will simply dismiss al charges.

If the tide continues to turn against Trump, voting to acquit him, or refusing to hold a vote on removing him from office, would not be a winning strategy for Senate Republicans.

MORE impulsive, R41. I cannot imagine!

On WWHL Megan McCain essentially said she would vote for Biden. She really likes him.

Imagine what it’s like for WH staffers sitting at their desks this morning, soul-searching whether it’s better to blow their own whistle now, or wait it out and hope they don’t go down with the ship.

This won't be Watergate II, but it's own thing. They keep hoping the Clinton impeachment effect will be the same. It won't.

[quote]If Nancy et al explain things properly, he’ll be convicted.

Yes, because Moscow Mitch listens to reason and does what's best for the country.

R 49,Biden and her daddy were best friends. She looks at him as an uncle.

[quote]I knew someone would be stupid enough to say something as you did.

Because there's nothing at all ironic about someone who says Fox News is doing the best job or reporting this story calling somebody else stupid.

re: the clarion call for DC insiders

I was planning on seeing my Congressional hookup this weekend. I can report back any good inside info I find out.

[quote]could he go the way of Agnew?

Agnew was VP, and resigned over a simultaneous,but unrelated to Watergate, scandal. John Mitchell is a better comparison to Barr.

[quote]That’s sparking worries that Trump could display increasingly unpredictable behavior and lash out in unexpected ways

And we all know how crazy being hopped up on Adderall can make people.

Sorry, r56--I meant Mitchell.

Kellyanne is less heroine and more heroin.

Joni Ernst hasn’t had time to read the 9-page whistleblower letter, y'all. She too focused on ethanol!

I’m going to go ahead and call it:

Trump will take every Adderall he has, lock himself in the bathroom with his phone and a hostage, and send increasingly psychotic Tweets until his heart gives out.

Let's be real fellow homosexuals: the GOP senators will turn on Trump if and when their pollsters tell them it is politically expedient to.

The man is going to throw everyone under the bus before he takes an ounce of responsibility. Wait until he turns on Rudy, Turtle, and the Senatrice. get out the popcorn.

[quote]Imagine what it’s like for WH staffers sitting at their desks this morning, soul-searching whether it’s better to blow their own whistle now, or wait it out and hope they don’t go down with the ship.

Concern ye not with them. Punishments will be meted out accordingly.

CNN:

WH acknowledges for first time that the Ukraine transcript was filed in a separate classified system. WH official tells Pamela Brown it was done under the direction of NSC attorneys. Source said: "NSC lawyers directed that the classified document be handled appropriately.”

Where are you when I need you?

Sen. Joni Ernst at R60 looks like she's been inhaling a little too much ethanol.

Except that we know that the supposed "handled appropriately" is a lie, R65, since the call notes (not a transcript) have been released and there was nothing in them that was classified. No genuine NSC lawyer would have made such a recommendation.

[quote]WH acknowledges for first time that the Ukraine transcript was filed in a separate classified system.

Trump apologists keep attacking the credibility of the whistleblower but the WH just confirmed a key detail of his complaint.

If there is an impeachment charge it will go to the Senate for trial. Presiding will be Cheif justice Roberts. Mitch will have no say as to whether to proceed. Roberts cares about his court and it's integrity. He won't sell out to Trump.

R5: [quote]If Nancy et al explain things properly, he’ll be convicted. But a lot depends on that, and how crazy he starts to act while under stress. [bold]They’ll need to keep him from blowing up the world while on trial, or starting war with Iran, or anybody.[/bold]

Once again, I give you this prescient moment from [italic]The Closer,[/italic] in which Kyra Sedgwick's character says

[quote]I remember once hearin' a speech about what it meant to be an officer of the CIA, and the man who gave this speech talked about the struggle to control civilization and how we're always fightin' the same fight, and he used the Dark Ages as an example. And he talked about how on the one side you had the pragmatic King, who was greedy and power hungry and basically took advantage of people whenever he could. And on the other side you had the idealistic Church, forcin' everyone to follow the same rules, believe the same thing, and all that. Neither the King nor the Church was ever completely right or wrong; both sides ended up doin' terrible things to get what they wanted, really terrible things. The point of the story was this: that this struggle from the Dark Ages had been goin' on forever, and the Church and the King might take on different philosophies, but they would always fight each other--pragmatists and idealists, and at most times, you're better off standin' on the sidelines, lettin' them duke it out. [bold]But every once in a while, one side or the other decides it might be better just to blow up the whole world just to get its own way and when that happens, you can't stand on the sidelines any more. You have to pick a team.[/bold]So for tonight anyway, we're servin' the King.

It is long past time to pick a side. Trump and McConnell MUST be removed from office/power, because this ship needs to be righted quick and in a hurry. Biden or Warren, Kamala or Pete, Klobuchar or Sanders--we MUST turn out and vote straight-ticket Democrat.

Actually, I think one pf the many reasons for Giulani's unhinged and very public rants is to warn the orange shitgibbon that he'd better NOT throw him under the bus, because who knows what he'd say in that instance. Giulani has the receipts and he has the diagram to the cemetery showing where all of the bodies are buried.

Putin already gave Trumpy a very public warning this morning. But poor Rudy is also the loose thread that is pulling this whole thing apart

R54 This is why I find it the most interesting network to watch right now over the impeachment issue:

R72, what was Putin’s “very public warning”?

This, R74.

It won't go to an impeachment trial if Moscow Mitch dismisses the charges as soon as they're presented. He CAN do that and I am very sure he will.

^^^That was for r70.

He might technically be able to do so, r76, since the Constitution says that the Senate has "the sole power to try," which does not specifically insist that the Senate absolutely [italic]must[/italic] try.

However, were he to do so, I think the backlash would be considerable and it would all be on him. He's already on shaky ground in his reelection bid in Kentucky and I don't think he'll risk it. He's too wedded to power and too protective of his own skin to stick his neck out like that. Plus, he'll be pretty confident that the Senate won't vote to convict, so he won't need to take that risk.

"It won't go to an impeachment trial if Moscow Mitch dismisses the charges as soon as they're presented. He CAN do that and I am very sure he will."

McConnell might instead calculate that an acquittal in 2019 or 2020 is not so inevitable and that regardless of the verdict, a full-blown impeachment trial might politically damage both the president and Republican senators, and so the political fortunes of the GOP would be better served by allowing the impeachment to hang over the election.

Can he do that? The current Senate rules certainly seem to contemplate an orderly initiation of a Senate trial once the House of Representatives has sent notice that the House has appointed managers and is prepared to exhibit articles of impeachment. But the presiding officer of the Senate could creatively interpret those rules to allow the Senate to delay moving forward with a trial, and a simple majority of the senators could vote to sustain such a ruling. Notably, this maneuver would require the senators to go on record with a vote to delay. They could not so easily hide behind McConnell. The necessity of taking such a vote might reduce the incentives for avoiding a trial, and McConnell might have a hard time keeping his majority in line to cast such a vote.

Since I put nothing past Moscow Mitch, I can only say it wouldn't surprise me. I think ultimately how he goes depends on all the evidence and the overall opinion of the country--and his own self-interest, of course.

Members of the House Intelligence Committee have been told to be prepared to potentially return to Washington during the upcoming two-week recess as Democrats try to wrap up the impeachment inquiry this fall.

[QUOTE] [McConnell’s] too wedded to power and too protective of his own skin to stick his neck out like that.

He doesn’t even HAVE a neck!

I can't believe they're even considering going away for two weeks, r81. They've got momentum right now.

[quote]Roberts cares about his court and it's integrity. He won't sell out to Trump.

That depends on the nature of the charges and evidence that come out of the hearings (and public opinion thereon), whether he sees some wiggle room or deniability. Same with the possibility that Mitch will decline to hold a trial.

did anyone mention that Trump raised 13 million the day after the impeachment was announced?

Yeah, so, r85? You can't buy this off.

[quote]did anyone mention that Trump raised 13 million the day after the impeachment was announced?

I'm believing this less and less. I mean... they might have indeed raised this amount but I believe it all is so contrived.

Those fundraising figures just prove yet again how brain-dead his fentanyl-addicted supporters are. A fool and his money...

Democrats raised millions, as well. I believe ActBlue accrued something like $10 million in two days.

But his Secret Server!

There's no reason to try to predict what will happen with this administration, or what they will do.

I heard the investigating committees are staying in DC

The House Intelligence Committee is, according to WaPo. Don't know about the others.

And, how are the Dolce & Gabbana boys and Home Depot girls doing? Trump is their guy. They were the first to endorse. Has anyone heard any comments from them?

[quote] Me: If Nancy et al explain things properly, he’ll be convicted.

[quote] R52: Yes, because Moscow Mitch listens to reason and does what's best for the country.

I love you, Easter Bunny, R52, but I think Mitch and pals in the Senate might be convinced to do the right thing, or face a backlash in Nov 2020. The Dems could sweep the election and take both houses, and the Presidency, [italic] if Nancy et al explain things properly (and well). [/italic]

The election after The Watergate conclusion went mostly to the Dems.

[quote]Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani: Shouldn’t House Dems be calling someone named Biden, before me? I’m the messenger. Are you only a whistleblower if you allege, even falsely or incorrectly, misconduct about a Repub? What if it involves a Dem selling the VP’s office. See a problem? Where’s the Senate or FBI?

Now, I wish that the Democrats can come up with an effective rebuttal to shut the strategy of them versus us. I'm so sick of it.

He probably did - from his supporters that really would not care if he murdered someone on 5th Avenue.

Tulsi Gabbard now supports a "focused" impeachment inquiry.

For r27

What could possibly go wrong there, R99?

[quote]For [R27]

Hmmph. When I ask for pics of vaginas, I mean I want pics of vaginas.

The newborns with guns just push me over the edge.

I think Nancy was very good on Morning Joe. The Dems are finally sticking to message. It's a pretty simple one to understand too.

R85, I'm OK with that. The guy who runs Trump's re-election campaign is a huge grifter/crook. I'm sure that a lot of that $13 million will just vanish off the books.

Those of you who think fat Donnie is going to sit down and weigh his options haven't been paying attention.

He NEVER considers the consequences to his actions because too many people have shielded his fat ass over the years.

He won't think or reason. He will get seriously butt hurt, stamp his little feet, curl up his tiny hands and stomp out of the white house.

It will only be a week or two later when he doesn't return that people will start to ask if he's quit or just taking a vacation. Because he won't bother to tell anyone or write anything down. And he will only speak to a handful of people.

Because THAT is how he operates.

Tulsi Gabbard can go sit on a bed of nails, cunt first. How that women has even one supporter truly astonishes me.

I'm still so shocked that anyone is loyal to the orange shitgibbon!! What is wrong with these people?

I'm getting bored already. When are they going to release some new outrageous bombshell to delight and appall the masses?

Bored of what, r107?

Only BORING PEOPLE get bored, R107.

I need constant stimulation! Give me another redacted summary of a Trump phone call or something. It's either that or go back to this book on Guaman Poma.

R27 and others, this happened near me. AN 8 YEAR-OLD!

Keep in mind, that it takes 67 votes in the Senate to convict this shitheel. We have 47 votes between the Dems and the Independents. We need 20 more. I know people keep saying that we need 6 more seats to control the Senate, but I'd feel a lot better if we had more. We really need a tsunami style Democratic wave in 2020.

Children are never too young for firearms.

Politico: Secretary of State POMPEO has been subpoenaed by House committees to produce Ukraine documents.

Do we think they’re going to play their ignore all subpoena card as per usual?

This subpoena covers documents that Pompeo has refused to produce for weeks. I imagine the WH will fight, but the letter accompanying the subpoena states:

"Your failure or refusal to comply with the subpoena shall constitute evidence of obstruction of the House's impeachment inquiry."

from r99: Bet this pic is triggering all the small minded liberals who think guns are bad. But if you watch scary movies, the liberals always die because they hate guns and don’t have any in their place when Charles Manson sends his drugged out hippies to use knives on people or Michael Myers comes in with his chef’s knife cutting the liberals up. In all those movies, if those liberals had guns, they’d have survived. It’s interesting. Maybe I’m the only one who noticed that about most horror movies

That is so gorgeous. Just so awesome on so many levels. MAGA, baby! In all it's proud ignorance.

Because of the impeachment inquiry, R115, the House should be able to seek immediate review by the courts. Also, the Trump administration has constantly argued that they shouldn't have to respond to subpoenas because something serious, like an impeachment inquiry, wasn't pending. That argument has come back to bite them.

"Monica Zelensky"

[quote] MAGA, baby! In all it's proud ignorance.

Oh dear

R117, movies aren’t real life.

And guns won’t protect you from velociraptors.

Thanks for coming out, R120.

What if people refuse to testify? Pompeo, Barr, Giuliani, Mulvaney. Will they be jailed for contempt.

LOVE that, r119.

Senate Republicans are sociopaths. They will never vote to remove Cheeto. He could kill someone in the street. As long as he claimed self-defense, they wouldn’t vote to remove him.

Can the House ask Ukraine for its records and recordings?

R115 absolutely. Executive privilege card too. All day.

I like how the House is moving fast. They're being strategic. It's like the republic's immune system is trying to adapt — swifter, more forceful — in light of Cheeto's tactics (create chaos, obstruct justice, lie lie lie).

Is Kellyanne spewing her lies yet? Smug dismissal or faux-outrage?

Ukraine also has to consider the possibility that they’ll be dealing with Pres. Biden 16 months from now.

Kellyanne has been nowhere. I guess Fox but I don't watch it. I bet she does some Sunday shows because she will have time to get her alternative facts straight.

Ukraine could use some sunlight. Disclose. The republic is more than its executive. Think long-term, Ukraine.

omfg. Rudy is the gift that keeps on giving. He's set to make a paid appearance at a Kremlin-backed event next week. - -

Rudolph W. Giuliani, whose actions as President Trump’s personal lawyer have helped set in motion an impeachment inquiry, is set to appear as a paid speaker at a Kremlin-backed conference in Armenia on Tuesday — an event expected to include the participation of Russian President Vladi­mir Putin and other top Russian officials.

Giuliani confirmed to The Washington Post on Friday that he plans to take part in a panel at the conference sponsored by Russia and the Moscow-based Eurasian Economic Union, a trade alliance launched by Putin in 2014 as a counterweight to the European Union.

According to an agenda for the event posted online, Giuliani is set to participate in a panel led by Sergey Glazyev, a longtime Putin adviser who has been under U.S. sanctions since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine five years ago.

iuliani’s decision to take part in the conference astounded national security experts. His scheduled appearance comes days after the release of a whistleblower complaint accusing Trump and Giuliani of pressuring Ukrainian officials for damaging information about Democrats.

Trump this summer withheld military aid from Ukraine, which counts on U.S. support to help fend off pro-Moscow separatists in the country’s eastern provinces. As part of his efforts in Ukraine, Giuliani has said the focus on Russia’s interference in the 2016 election has overlooked what he claims was meddling by Kiev.

The House is moving fast in part, I think, because they believe it's possible (unlikely, but possible) that Cheeto will stir up unrelated chaos to draw attention elsewhere (Iran, etc.). The media will follow his lead, especially the Times, which the rest of the media will in turn follow.

It's long past time for Nancy Pelosi to start publicly shaming McConnell and the pro Jabba Republicans in Congress. She and her people need to take every opportunity to point out how Turtle Head and his people are working overtime to protect a known criminal in the White House which makes them complicit in his crimes.

I'm excited but scared as well. I'm scared that "undecideds" won't see impeachment as a valid move. "It's all partisan politics," they'll say from their Iowa pancake houses and Pennsylvania diners to reporters.

If it's such a political move (as opposed to a necessary move to preserve the republic), why are the Dems risking what happened to the GOP when they impeached Clinton?

"It's such a bad strategic move" guys like Bret Stephens, Douthat, and David Brooks moan. As if principle doesn't matter. As if letting Cheeto get away with it won't invite further abuses of power and harm to the republic. Morons.

Thank goodness for the Washington Post. The Times is going to do its best to "what about" this to death and minimize everything, labelling it purely partisan politics.

The Times isn't interested in defending our democracy. They basically outed the WB to the public, endangering him.

They're helping Cheeto to preserve their access.

People are canceling their Times subscriptions.

If you do so, please subscribe to another newspaper. Support the free press.

All of this nonsense just confirms that we need to reestablish the old Austrian empire, including the parts of Ukraine not currently occupied by Russia, as a buffer state between western Europe and the Russian menace. Which Hapsburg is up next?

#CancelNYT

I canceled the NYT a long time ago. I subscribe to my local paper and the Washington Post.

On Twitter.

Two items:

1) Let's not forget it was WaPo, not NYT, that broke the whole Watergate story. And it's even more interesting now that Bezos owns WaPo.

2) It there is any encouragement about the repugs beginning to jump ship, the whole fight among the Faux News opinion shits (Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham, Pirro) and the actual news department is delightful to watch.

Me too r140

Ooopsie, looks like we have our first Republican house rep who I would label as "Impeachment Curious."

Is he impeachment adjacent?

I loathe the New York Times for its arrogance.

I'm baffled and confused about how Rudy Giuliani is able to hop around the globe doing the White House's business. What about background checks and security clearances on the man? Is he cleared and able to do all this shit?

Map of the key players & timeline:

Joe Biden:

I believe our elections should be decided by the American people — not foreign governments.

The difference between NYT and WaPo comes down the this: the Times needs to make money, the Post does not.

While Bezos isn't running a charity, WaPo is cushioned by Amazon. The NYT, OTOH, is all the family has got and so they need to raise money.

Thus they often act like Fox News, running stories for shock value or clicks.

BREAKING: A new Senate report reveals that the @NRA was a 'foreign asset' to Russia ahead of 2016, promising access to U.S. officials in exchange for Russian business.

Ted Lieu:

If the below article is accurate, it appears @realDonaldTrump seeks to trade action on legislation in exchange for financial support from the @NRA . That would be illegal. A felony, to be exact.

[quote] The difference between NYT and WaPo comes down the this: the Times needs to make money, the Post does not.

You have a point, but Bezos has only owned the Post since 2013, and the difference between the two papers has been apparent since before that, back when the Post was also family owned.

The 21st century has been fucked up so far

I’ve been over the NYT for a while. I was a frequent listener of their podcast The Daily, but had to stop because they were trying so hard to pretend that this is an ordinary presidency that it was painful. And that was before I knew about Michael Barbaro’s conversion to lesbianism.

Why can’t we get the verbatim phone call transcript, instead of that whitewashed record of the call? Nancy, well, everyone, should be demanding it! Especially after Atty. General Barr mis-interpreted the Mueller report!

The NYT has also had a vendetta against the Clintons for years.

And some writers like Maureen Dowd, have been particularly bad. A quantitative analysis of the articles by Dowd revealed that about two-thirds of her columns on Hillary over the past 2 decades had been negative.

What with this current Ukraine shit, the charges Mueller told us to pursue and what ever fucking crap the big baby poops out of his ass in the coming year, I figure I can keep this impeachment train chugging right along until well after inauguration day 2021.

R158, what I hate most about your post is that it isn’t clear what you meant to communicate.

Yeah, it's clear; it's also wrong, R159. Pelosi wants to have this done quickly, possibly by the end of the year.

[quote] The NYT has also had a vendetta against the Clintons for years.

I'll take "All The Reasons Why She Lost" For $400, please, Alex

Kurt Volker has resigned and Rudy has canceled his paid appearance at the Kremlin-backed conference, all while I took a catnap. The news is coming fast and furious right now. If only the shitgibbon would take the hint and resign himself rather than dragging this all out.

Not going to happen, r162 -- which will make his downfall even more spectacular

Volker is, or was, head of John McCain's Institute. Why did he even get involved with these swamp rats?

[quote]Kurt Volker has resigned

What reason was given?

Have you all realized yet that this will be [italic] the [/italic] topic of conversation at Thanksgiving? If you talk politics, I mean. My deplorable relatives can’t shut their mouths about politics.

My brother is currently up in arms about a tax hike that will raise the cost of a certain grocery store-bought pre-made salad by 29¢.

My sister and her husband are Foxwashed and can’t shut up about White Privilege, Blue Lives Matter, Political Correctness, and so forth.

I haven’t visited there since they got completely out of control. I credit Trump and Fox with giving them permission to express their inner piggishness.

R165, no reason given yet.

The Kurt Volker resignation story, still breaking.

[quote]Executive Director of the McCain Institute Kurt Volker resigned from his position as the U.S. Special Envoy for Ukraine Friday, following reports he collaborated with Ukraine and President Donald Trump.

[quote]An ASU official confirmed Volker's resignation Friday, and said the University could not speak about his future at ASU because the University does not comment on personnel matters.

[quote]Volker met with U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo Friday to announce he would be resigning, the official said.

Pamela Brown on CNN reporting White House has admitted they also restricted access to records of phone calls between Trump and Putin and Trump and Mohammad bin Salman.

The Giuliani story.

[quote]Rudolph W. Giuliani, whose actions as President Trump’s personal lawyer have helped set in motion an impeachment inquiry, abruptly canceled his scheduled paid appearance at a Kremlin-backed conference in Armenia next week.

[quote]Giuliani, who confirmed to The Washington Post on Friday morning that he would attend the event, reversed himself that evening after The Post reported on his participation in the meeting, which Russian President Vladi­mir Putin and other top Russian officials are expected to attend.

The President of Ukraine used to be a comedian. BUT looks like he still has his comedy chops going. This is the actual presentation he gave at the World Leaders Forum at the UN this week.

Reuters:

Republicans see impeachment backfiring. Democrats fear they may be right.

^ You realize that this article was written yesterday?

What s difference a day makes. 24... little hours...

R172, I call bullshit. So what are we supposed to do? Walk around eggshells and let this band of freaks get away with everything just because of his stupid base? I'm glad the Democrats and Pelosi had the balls to do this much. Screw these stupid people and their neverending "concerns."

If Pelosi let this moment pass WITHOUT impeaching, she would have faced a mob with pitchforks calling for her head. Good or bad, it had to be done. Time to roll the dice and try to take this shitgibbon down

I now feel dumber for having read that bullshit article cited in R172. That was just incredibly stupid. And it clearly did not wear well, given the events of the 24 hours since.

The new Shit Hits The Fan threads are SO much better than the cliquish Mueller/Treason/"Miss Lindsey" threads.

Way to go, Fan Guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Original Politico headline: "Just another day in Fucknutsville."

Since modified, sadly.

However, Mike Kunkel decided to take advantage of the lapse with a Chrome extension.

R26 gets it.

Trump lost the centre months ago. The rest is just bluster.

I can’t believe so many of them are slurring Biden with no evidence at all, of anything. It’s angering.

Giuliani is now claiming to be “the real whistleblower”! What the fuck! How shameful!

Posters who think McConnell can just open and close an impeachment trial in the Senate with a gavel in 5 mins. don’t know what they’re talking about. Chief Justice John Roberts will preside over the trial. The GOP Senators will either have to answer to all of Trump’s crimes or make him answer for them. But using QAnon as a defender ISN'T going to cut it.

Seems a lot of you didn’t live through Watergate so you don’t really grasp what’s going on. There is STRONG, FUNDAMENTAL precedent for these proceedings - that’s what has the GOP so terrified. The House is going to have their inquiry and there’s nothing Trump can do about it because anything he tries in the courts is going to be struck down and decided in favour of the House - because we’ve already done this. Trump is played out. End of. It’s happening.

I'm all in for the impeachment, but I just don't see the senate cracking. McConnel has been giving the middle finger to the everyone who is not Mitch McConnel for so long, that he no longer gives a fuck. I just don't see him letting that happen. He'd rather lose a seat than have the whole thing come down all around him.

I just want to know if there's already a movement behind the scenes to force out Pence, so the Republicans can install a Gerald Ford-type into the office.

I think most of the GOP will think, “This has been fun but here’s our opportunity to get our party back.” Yeah, they’ll be in the wilderness for at least 4 years (probably a lot longer) - but they deserve that. Why risk losing everything? Trump really is of no more use to them. I think the rats will see the sheer scale of this thing, recognise the absurdity of fighting it and pledge allegiance to their country again. Otherwise they face almost complete annihilation as a party. Trump is going down and you can tell he’s going to take a LOT of people with him. He ain’t going quietly but they may even have to execute the 25th amendment before they impeach him. Watch how quickly the rats desert a sinking ship.

Hillary was right (AGAIN): He doesn’t have the temperament for this. He never did.

The Senate will use this as a (very valid) excuse to finally dump him, and prohibit him from future political office. Yes, they can do that. They all hate him and this is their chance.

Former AZ Sen. Jeff Flake said that if the vote was anonymous, there’d be 30 Republican Senators voting to impeach.

^ today he upped it to 35.

Cowards. There is nothing - NOTHING - left that can redeem today's Republican Party.

The only way to get rid of Trump really is if at least ten or more Republican Senators would support impeachment. Maybe the fucknut would get scared and resign before being publicly humiliated in a lengthy public trial.

Why hasn't Barr resigned yet or made a public statement? Did I miss it?

R169, Fun fact: CNN's Pamela Brown is the daughter of former Miss America Phyllis George and former Kentucky Governor John Brown.

From a great profile of Pelosi in the New Yorker

[quote]Earlier this week, Pelosi said, she took a call from Trump, who started out talking about guns. “The President, as you know, is big on what he claims is the charm offensive,” she said. “And some of his charm offensive is very offensive.

There's a reason he's afraid of her.

And the hits keep on coming

R182, what some are pointing out is that there is no Constitutional requirement that forces the Senate to have a trial at all. Theoretically, McConnell could refuse to conduct the trial and, legally, there is nothing stopping him from doing that. Personally, I don't think he will, as the blowback from that would be too damn strong but, technically, he could.

R185, you're assuming that there is any real risk from Congressional Republicans sticking together and staying with Trump. For most of them, damn near all of them, there is little to no risk. Trump's base is absolutely with him and the House members, in particular, are mostly in strong, often gerrymandered, Republican districts where there is little chance of a Democrat picking them off. Most of the Senators are in a similar position. The real risk may well be on the other side: getting attacked in the primary from the right for being insufficiently loyal to Trump.

Right now, they're being cautious, waiting to see whether they can ride this out, to see if the base will remain with Trump, to see if there are any new revelations coming to light. Absent anything new, I would expect them to brazen it out and to portray this as Democratic "overreach" and Democrats trying to "overturn the 2016 election." The risk involved there, particularly given the state of our national media, would be pretty minimal.

NYT confirms: Kurt Volker, the State Department's special envoy for Ukraine, who got caught in the middle of the pressure campaign by Trump and Rudy Giuliani to find damaging information about Democrats, resigned his post on Friday.

Could someone explain what there is left to investigate and what facts still need to be uncovered?

Ted Lieu: ‏ The @HouseForeign, @OversightDems & @HouseIntel Committees have scheduled a deposition for Kurt Volker for next week. Mr. Volker was @realDonaldTrump's Special Envoy to Ukraine.

There were quite a few contacts between the Trump campaign and White House with Ukraine, R194. We also need to know the involvement of both the State Department and the Justice Department. And we need to confirm the rest of the contents of the whistleblower's memo.

Democrats are still expecting Volker to show up for his deposition on Capitol Hill on Oct. 3, sources tell @ABC News.

Trump told Russian officials in 2017 he wasn’t concerned about Moscow’s interference in U.S. election

Trump told the Russians privately in 2017 that he wasn’t concerned about their interference in our election because we do the same thing in others’ elections.

We do, but that’s just stupid. Incredibly stupid. Need I say why, or is it obvious enough?

It’s so infuriating. We’ve got a Manchurian President.

If he wasn't compromised before that meeting (of course he was) he's been compromised every day since.

It certainly seems like somebody is done with his ass. Bolton? White House staff? CIA?

Just watching Rep. Alyssa Slotkin on CNN. She is all kinds of common sense awesome.

That WaPo story linked at R191 and R198 is devastating and infuriating. That was the same meeting, remember, where he gave the Russians information about ISIS that came from Israeli intelligence—just tossing it their way, endangering counter-terrorist operatives. And the same one at which he said that firing James Comey had taken "great pressure" off him. Think of all the damage this treasonous Russian asset has been doing as our chief executive for almost three years. Impeach him and everyone who's enabled his treason.

The lack of common sense on these threads is astounding

GOP senators and representatives will only vote for impeachment if the poll numbers tell them to

If they think it's going to seriously hurt their re-election chances, then they're not going there.

If they think their constituents are mostly done with The Donald Trump Show, then they'll dump him

They are not a particularly nuanced group.

I wonder if the Russian meeting will become a bigger story.

Shortly after Trump had those Russians in the Oval Office, Trump spent a long weekend in Florida because they had to gut and rebuild the Oval Office. I read on DataLounge that it was to ensure that the Russians didn’t hid a bug somewhere that they couldn’t otherwise detect.

At link: a US Government Seal which was a gift from the USSR to the US. It hung somewhere important for years, IIRC, before a bug was found in it. So, it can happen.

[quote] R203: The lack of common sense on these threads is astounding...

Generally I enjoy your posts but I think we all know what you posted in R203, so no scolding is necessary.

What I, personally, am hoping for, is that the House investigation finds evidence that moves both the public and their Representatives. We can’t know until the process moves forward.

One thing for sure—politicians have access to much more accurate polling than the public. The fact that there are cracks appearing is showing you that the numbers are trending against Dump.

Does it matter that this is just an impeachment investigation and not an impeachment? They could still decide that Trump deserves a censure, but not an impeachment. A censure isn’t really anything. They toyed with that during the Clinton business. That’s where MoveOn.org came from. It was “Censure, and move on”, originally.

They ain't gonna censure him. He's in too deep.

There was this Republican talking head on Cuomo just now doing what they always do: smiling... smiling so inappropriately. Virtually every Republican talking head smiles, no matter what. It's not gonna make you likeable. But they all do it. It's weird.

If they do something ineffectual, I’d go to DC to march.

Trump was recorded this week as calling the whistleblower a “traitor”, and then he implied that he or she should be executed.

Trump is infamous for his projection. No doubt, he has heard people call him a traitor, and he’s trying to turn it around.

He is a traitor. Lock him up!

That whistleblower will be ripped to shreds by the opposition, even though Trump admits to the worst of the allegations in the WB’s letter. Poor guy.

I know r213, his life will be torn apart. Every aspect of his life will be scrutinized. It’s sad—he truly is a hero and he’ll be excoriated by the right for it. I hope that he and his family are watched over. I was just imagining what he must be thinking, watching the news right now. He must be in a bit of shock.

^ geez I was even thinking, what if he’s a gay man who’s reading DL right this minute! Are you out there, whistleblower?

Lindsey already told a reporter he's golfing with Trump tomorrow so they can talk about the whistleblower and then Lindsey will do the Sunday shows. So they're going to pull every dirty trick in the book.

I hope that sleazy motherfucker goes down with Trump.

[quote] l'état, c'est moi

R212, continuing...

Trump can’t differentiate between the State and himself. That does not bode well.

Linked: Hitler mocks FDR

[quote]Lindsey already told a reporter he's golfing with Trump tomorrow so they can talk about the whistleblower and then Lindsey will do the Sunday shows. So they're going to pull every dirty trick in the book.

@DavidCornDC Graham to Trump’s colon: “Mind if I play through?”

Look, the WB is a spook. S/he knew what would happen when word got out. They ain't dumb.

This person probably has numerous contingency plans and understands how to go to ground, change their appearance, lay low in hostile territory.

That being said, I do hope they use every trick of the trade and slip away safely with their family when they get a chance.

Pamela Brown is GORGEOUS! She could have had her pick of hedge funder husbands and never worked a day in her life. But she chose to be a journalist and she regularly breaks news on CNN all while looking like a million bucks. She must love the thrill of it.

If I looked like that I would marry a billionaire and call it a day as far as working. She is a better person than me.

R35 - Rudy will be a legacy convict; his father, a career small-time criminal, spent some time in Sing Sing.

No Mar-a-Lago. Just hunkering down with the lawyers and advisers on Saturday.

There are an awful lot of Republicans that hate his guts in The Senate and Congress. They might be cowards, but they aren't stupid. When all the evidence is revealed they might not have a choice. They didn't hide correspondence on a secret server because he was sharing his Mother's secret Borscht recipe with Putin.

I don't know about anyone else but I got an email from my Congressman yesterday (a republican) asking everyone on the mailing list to take a survey about the impeachment. Of course he said he felt they were going way too fast (he is a republican after all), It was a simple one question survey. Do you support impeachment of Trump or not. Obviously I answer HELL YES I SUPPORT IMPEACHMENT. And if there had been a spot for me to comment I would have told my Congressman that he didn't vote for impeachment if it comes to trial we'll kick his ass out too.

Expect most of the other Republicans in Congress to start sending out the same emails. That's how they're going to find out of their constituents are likely to vote against them at re-election time or not.

McConnell has now stated that if Trump is impeached the Senate will have no choice but to hold a trial.

Nancy Pelosi deftly cunting Kellyanne in this clip.

At least Nixon did SOMETHING.

Idiots! You're all utter fools! Only I know what is truly going on! I will now say so in the most condescending and patronizing way possible! #yanggang

Yeah, I’m with Pelosi: I don’t find garish, vulgar, moronic slobs charming. Never have.

R192, fair enough but again you don’t understand the scale. This is too big to “brazen” it out. And it isn’t about the 2016 election “candidate” Trump. This is about his behaviour as President. There will be a hard core of about 23% of the electorate who will always support Trump - that’s his bottom. But watch. His entire administration is in meltdown - it’s like his own personal, well-deserved 9/11. And he’s an idiot surrounded by idiots. He’s not going to make it to Thanksgiving let alone Election Day. The GOP will pull the plug because they won’t have the stomach for it - even Reagan testified during the Iran Contra hearings. Trump doesn’t have the discipline for that. The GIOP will not want the spectacle of that.

Pelosi is very clever avoiding a select committee. The existing committees in Congress are getting this stuff done fast.

I look forward to his unhinged Saturday morning tweets.

I just realized he pinned his latest I AM DRAINING THE SWAMP tweet.

Trump has clearly shown his hand. His afraid of Biden.

Ukraine should keep in mind that Joe Biden could very well be the next US president.

Don't stamp on my neck but I just cannot figure out what happened to Miz Lindsey.

He's gone full blown ass kisser. From where he started on Trump to where he is now... has there ever been a collapse like it? Is it just he's so lonely, so closeted, so crazed that after he lost his McCain family connection he had to go somewhere and decided to go big? Madonna at her cagiest didn't reinvent herself on this scale. It completely blows my mind because he may be emotional and impulsive but he's not stupid. Tying himself to Trump is stupid.

It's either suck Jabba's button mushroom dick or risk whatever Trump knows about him becoming public knowledge.

Maybe he's just an unprincipled politician who sees that, especially in SC, he has no chance of keeping his office—as well as his speaking gigs on Fox, with its make-up experts and flattering lighting—without showing the base his most rabid demagogue-love.

What r237 said.

Graham openly concedes he wants no distance between Trump and him because he wants to remain Senator. He said so in a recent profile of him written by, iirc, and subject to my being corrected, Mark Liebovitch of the NY Times?

As for r236, I would have no doubt about that, too.

So an R Congressman from NV just came out for the Impeachment inquiry. So that makes 2. 2 fucking congressman from the other side who believe what Trump did was wrong. Jesus.

I agree with R236...as soon as the R's see support for impeachment creeping up in the polls they will abandon him. We'll see how it goes.

oops meant R203

I think Nixon was the only impeachment process that had any bipartisan integrity to it. Clinton was a joke. Johnson was politics. Trump is being avoided on the basis of self-interest. It's not like this is the only failing of this president, yet they shirk their obligations and put party before country. That's what it's become. Same thing with the UK and Brexit... power is more interested in what it wants than in doing its duty. Society is undergoing a rapid collapse in confidence institutions... because the people running them are putting something else above basic, obvious, accepted duty. This is so bad.

So his latest insult is "Do Nothing Democrat Savages"

Always classy

Oh, they're doing something...

[quote]McConnell has now stated that if Trump is impeached the Senate will have no choice but to hold a trial.

While I will not state that this is Moscow Mitch doing the right thing, it is an additional sign that the dam has finally broken.

He just tweeted PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT!

[quote]Don't stamp on my neck but I just cannot figure out what happened to Miz Lindsey.

He's an empty vessel. He needs a hero to look up to. When the love of his life passed, he needed a new. Unfortunately he grabbed on to you know who.

Ok. He just posted MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

Less than a minute later:

KEEP AMERICA GREAT!

^ I think it is probably as simple as that.

Really pathetic.

Republicans are very good at Swiftboating. Half the country still thinks American war hero John Kerry is actually a traitor. We'll see what sticks to Biden.

Or Warren. Or any of them. Swiftboating is here to stay. Some are more vulnerable than others.

[quote]R192, fair enough but again you don’t understand the scale. This is too big to “brazen” it out.

No, it really isn't, as we're already seeing. They've decided that it's "hearsay" and that there was no explicit "quid pro quo," so this is just another "witch hunt." Absent new evidence of one kind or another, they will be easily able to brazen it out.

[quote]There will be a hard core of about 23% of the electorate who will always support Trump - that’s his bottom.

His hard core base is closer to 35%.

[quote]His entire administration is in meltdown

They're scrambling to do damage control and Trump is madly tweeting but that's temporary. We've seen this before with other revelations. They'll settle on a message; Trump will get over his outrage; his base will cry "fake news" and "witch hunt" and "no collusion."

[quote]He’s not going to make it to Thanksgiving let alone Election Day.

I'm sorry, but this is just foolish wishful thinking. He's not going to resign and the GOP will not make him do so.

[quote]The GOP will pull the plug because they won’t have the stomach for it

As long as that hard core base is with Trump, the GOP will remain with him, as well. And, so far, there are no signs of that base deserting him.

What r250 and r251 said.

Democrats compliment voters by assuming they know bullshit when they see it. It's a mistake Dems, and I include myself here, make again, and again and again.

Call me crazy, but I took a different view of Hillary not campaigning in Wisconsin in 2016. I think she assumed voters would know a blatant, overtly self-dealing, bigoted corrupt Con Man, that is Trump when they saw one, and didn't need to be steered away from him.

Well, I was wrong, of course. Two mistakes made- voters want to be asked to vote for you and 2, we are too damn stupid to avoid the likes of Trump.

Repugs don't make those mistakes. They know Americans are stupid, fearful and susceptible to nonsense. Then they go about their ruthless, non-restrained political warfare accordingly. Yes, Obama was voted in twice, deserved to be, and earned re-election, but by sheer outlier anomaly. The combination of GWB perpetrating such a massive fuck-up with Iraq and the extraordinary campaigning skills, charisma and appeal of Obama carried the day.

It pains me to write these words because I deeply admire Hillary Clinton and believe she would make a superb POTUS, but, let's not forget that in 2008, we as Dems rejected her. Why then, wouldn't a small, significant, stupid fearful segment not do so too? I'm talking about the 77, 000 voters over WI, MI and Ohio that voted Trump and handed him the EC victory.

Again, Repugs have perfected political carnage. They have no restraint, no hesitancy at using every weapon at their disposal, including making shit up out of thin air. and why not? It works.

Trump himself doesn't have the hide to endure it. He isn't tough. He's a classic insecure Paper Tiger, brave at the safe remove of his Twitter account. Underlying Repugs dislike of Trump is that they know that about him; they have to save his weak-ass self.

[quote] Underlying Repugs dislike of Trump is that they know that about him; they have to save his weak-ass self.

I'm talking about the Repug elected and donor class elite, not Don and Dee Plorable. They're a given that they're glommed to Trump with glue.

[quote]Don't stamp on my neck but I just cannot figure out what happened to Miz Lindsey.

Why single out Lindsey? Every damn Republican member of Congress beat the drum loudly for free trade and lowering the deficit until Trump decided otherwise. It's all about doing and saying whatever they must to avoid a GOP primary challenger and get reelected. You could not squeeze an ounce of integrity from the whole lot of them.

[quote]they've decided that it's "hearsay" and that there was no explicit "quid pro quo," so this is just another "witch hunt." Absent new evidence of one kind or another, they will be easily able to brazen it out.

This flimsy argument—obviously contradicted even by what the WH has released—is going to stick only with the hardest-core base, and whether that's 23% or 35% or somewhere in between, they're not enough to let the whole Republican party easily brazen it out. Notice that even Mitch is hedging his bets now, promising a trial in the Senate if Trump is impeached. He may be confident that the Senate will vote not to convict, but he's not simply denying that impeachment is a legitimate move here.

R255, how many Republican Senators and Representatives are in safe states and districts, supported by that same 35%? And have you really not seen the handwringing news articles from the mainstream media about how "Impeachment will hurt Democrats!!!!" Absent new data of some kind, Republicans are not going to have a problem brazening it out, particularly with a lazy "both sides do it" media helping them along.

I strongly support impeachment and it was definitely the right thing to do, but get real about the consequences. In any case, we'll likely know in a couple of weeks which of us is correct.

[quote]Notice that even Mitch is hedging his bets now, promising a trial in the Senate if Trump is impeached.

Moscow Mitch said that in March, long before impeachment was an actual possibility.

Today in Politico: "Lawmakers from both parties say they wouldn’t be surprised if the Kentucky Republican ultimately made the same calculation he did in 2016 when President Barack Obama nominated Merrick Garland for the Supreme Court."

Lindsey is playing golf with Trump today.

As someone said on MSNBC yesterday, there is no bottom when it comes to Trump’s behavior and corruption. So that is forcing most Republican politicians to freeze. They don’t want to claim blind support only to discover some bigger scandal tomorrow. The longer they don’t defend him vigorously, the bigger the impeachment probe becomes.

Meanwhile, Barr is hiding out in Italy on "official travel" - wtf kind of "official travel" would the US AG have over there? These shady mofos are really something else.

[QUOTE] Republicans are very good at Swiftboating. Half the country still thinks American war hero John Kerry is actually a traitor. We'll see what sticks to Biden.

Are you the same poster who is currently overusing the word “brazen” in this thread? This post is really ridiculous. No one but Ken fucking Vogel is even talking about Joe Biden right now. And the Ukraine itself has stated that there was nothing there.

I actually think the missing part of the transcript is Trump asking them to just make something up about him if they want U.S. aid.

[quote]Absent new data of some kind

Yes. But new information could certainly come out during the impeachment hearings, either because of them or alongside them, and public opinion—which *started* with better than a third of the public favoring impeachment long before hearings became a reality—could also dampen Republican support for Trump. I simply don't think it's realistic to discount breaks in the Republican dam at this point in the game and in a political climate that at best is not definitely favorable to Republicans next year. They'll probably vote not to convict, if it comes to a vote, but they'll do so at the risk of riling up an already riled up Democratic base, and of alienating more independents, and that's something that a senator like Susan Collins won't want to do.

[quote]Meanwhile, Barr is hiding out in Italy on "official travel" - wtf kind of "official travel" would the US AG have over there?

I assume he's meeting with the principal mafia families. So much to do these days...

Exactly what r258 said. I thought the same thing. Now that impeachment is actually a reality, that scumbag Moscow Mitch would definitely bury it. I think he would bet his low approval ratings in Kentucky on it, all or nothing.

Conservatives join the fight against Trump.

[quote] Meanwhile, Barr is hiding out in Italy on "official travel" - wtf kind of "official travel" would the US AG have over there?

Seeking Vatican sanctuary?

"McConnell has now stated that if Trump is impeached the Senate will have no choice but to hold a trial."

They don't need Tweety anymore. He was their rah-rah spokesmodel while they filled the courts with Christian Supremacists. They're anxious to get their Catholic-turned-holy roller Mike Pence into the top spot, to begin building a theocracy.

Thanks Donsld for all your hard work. We know you'll keep tweeting from Mar-a-Lago. Here's your billion dollar check.

"... wtf kind of "official travel" would the US AG have over there?"

He heard from the (small) handful of straight Priests that Callista gives incredible blowjobs.

I love how Repugs think Lady Whore Gingrich being appointed ambassador to the Vatican gives both her and her asshole spouse the veneer of respectability. The Vatican is one of the most corrupt, morally bankrupt places on the planet, the perfect place for Mr. and Mrs. Gingrich.

R267, yes, nothing says "I'm innocent" like leaving the country to avoid a subpoena.

I read Pompeo has twice ignored subpeonas related to this matter.

Who expected Della to be a water carrier for the Republicans?

Who knew Della is a defeatist Concern Troll?

Glad she outed herself in her anti-Hillary posts.

Indeed. As soon as one of these sonsofbitches goes to jail for this shit, they will beat a path to proffer

But until that happens, they will continue to lie, Stonewall and ignore subpoenas. But thus far, there has been no consequence.

In a civil judicial proceeding, you can't simply refuse to provide evidence. If you do, the jury is entitled to infer that whatever evidence you are withholding (or have destroyed) would conclusively establish facts that support the plaintiff's case. As I understand it, in an impeachment proceeding, the House can use the WH's failure to supply witnesses and documents the same way.

The term we popularly refer to as "swiftboating" is a tried and true tactic. It is called the Jujitsu Strategy: Use your enemy's strengths against him. I sometimes believe that the younger Dems who join campaigns and run them do not understand that underneath all their technical knowledge and expertise with IT, with focus groups, etc. they need to be warriors. They need to approach the campaigns the way military strategists do. Because Politics is War.

lol, r273.

Ignoring the subpeonas worries me too but then I thought: maybe that will be the tipping point. Only a smaller number of either corrupt or really stupid people really believe there isn't substance to this situation that must be examined.

If these creatures won't defend themselves through process, that sends a message that cannot be mistaken. That could really break the dam, of public opinion and Republican solidarity.

My point is, I think something will break the dam, but we won't know what it is yes. There's maybe a rough analogy to the death of Princess Diana. The reaction was certainly helped along by media - and twenty years on we've got social to make it even worse. But fundamentally, they got it wrong, trying to proceed along the lines of business as usual and precedent. Something snapped. It may have been the 'Where is our Queen? Where is her flag?' headline. But something snapped, people came to understand it, and suddenly everything possible to save the situation was done.

I don't think this situation can be saved for the Trump cabal but I mean something very likely could come along to force the Republicans to abandon shit.

Here's an idea! And, it is something that WE ALL can do!

If you have an appointment with any professional services office ie Doctor's, Dentist's, offices, etc that is playing FOX on the television while you're in the waiting room, then register a complaint. Tell the office that you were/are offended as a patient that you are exposed to such programming. You shouldn't have to scream, yell, or make a scene. Just let the office know that you are very displeased.

Will no one rid me of this troublesome Constitution!

I don't understand why anyone takes solace in coward former senator Jeff Flake stating that there would be 30 - 35 Republican senators who would vote for impeachment if the vote was held secretly. What sort of horrible admission is it that there are so many people in the senate who are so cowardly that they won't stand up for their convictions with the public. He, and they, should be ashamed.

LOL, R280! As if he cares anything about the Constitution or even acknowledges it exists. Or would have the word "troublesome" in his vocabulary.

[quote]What sort of horrible admission is it that there are so many people in the senate who are so cowardly that they won't stand up for their convictions with the public.

Maybe we should change "red states" to "yellow states."

[Will no one rid me of this troublesome Constitution!]

I will! I will!

R252, the Republicans are indeed calling it hearsay, but Trump admitted to it. The phone call summary is damning. The transcript, which the Dems must demand, is probably worse! What an awful, but predictable thing!

If the Dems lay the case out clearly, and the Senate does not convict, we’ll have a Blue tsunami in 2020.

Not if the milquetoast Dems don't make sure to make it known to the American people on a daily basis. So far they've mainly sat back and let the Republicans rant and rave and do little to publicly counter the lies being told. The Dems need to get off their asses and learn how to fight fire with fire and stop trying lo look like they're better than that.

R253, Della, I believe the Russians gave Hillary the flu. That made the difference because she couldn’t campaign like she otherwise would have.

[quote]So far they've mainly sat back and let the Republicans rant and rave and do little to publicly counter the lies being told.

^^This could be one of the stupider comments in this thread.

R287 's "The Dems" rant sounds like a talking points memo excerpt.

Trump gave out Miss Lindsay’s private cel number during the campaign. Can you imagine?

Bullshit! The main people who hear what little the Dems say to counter all the Republican bullshit are the people who already know what kind of scum Trump is. And when they do say anything at all it's so watered down and PC it's enough to make one sick. They need to lower themselves to Trump's level. That's the only thing his supporters listen to.

Again with "The Dems" like a moronic poster in Above Top Secret or some other QAnon MAGA site...

Handy impeachment primer:

[quote] Bullshit! The main people who hear what little the Dems say to counter all the Republican bullshit are the people who already know what kind of scum Trump is.

Did you maybe miss the news that "the Dems" are trying to impeach Trump?

“At this point, [Trump] could be caught walking out of a Federal Reserve bank with two giant sacks of money in his hands and no Republican would vote to impeach him for grand larceny,” said a senior Senate GOP aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

“Our voters want two things from their congressmen: [dumping] on the media and blindly defending the president,” the aide added. “That’s what being a Republican has come to.”

Michael Weiss:

Kurt Volker’s resignation is what I’m most interested in. If a former staffer for John McCain, and the head of the McCain Institute, got Donald Trump impeached—how fucking poetic would that be? Better than Banquo’s ghost.

R296 those idiots CREATED those voters in their blind lust for power. It's too late to whine about it now.

R292: WTF makes you think "Trump's supporters" will listen to (much less believe) anything the Democrats say, regardless of how "low" they go? Those folks will only hear what they want to hear - and what they want to hear is spewing forth from Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham, and Pirro.

[quote] If Nancy et al explain things properly, he’ll be convicted

He will not be convicted. The senate is GOP and Mitch McConnell will see to it that all GOP senators vote against conviction. The plan is that they won’t convict him and Trump and the GOP treat it as a vindication for Trump and a defeat for the democrats. It will be a celebration. “I won and democrats lose again. They can’t touch me because I’m innocent and always have bee. Now let’s back to MAGA; something Dems hate. They hate America they don’t want it to be great.”

I have no faith in either the GOP or the American electorate. They’ve all shown us who they are. Believe them

Let's not forget all the enablers who helped cover the fuckery up: like mcmaster

[quote] Did you maybe miss the news that "the Dems" are trying to impeach Trump?

I'm not just talking about just what comes out of Trump's mouth, but what comes out of the mouths of his people, like Giuliani, Conway, and the Trump lovers at FAUX news. What comes out of their mouths is the only thing his supporters hear. And the Democrats in Congress rarely publicly counter what these people say.

At this point, this is like Watergate when the tapes were discovered. It will take time but once the public hears Trump making deals with Putin or others it will turn the public against him in huge numbers. God only knows what kind of treasonous shit he said. Add to that, his erratic behavior. As he becomes more desperate he will only add to his crimes. With Nixon, there were not enough votes to convict until the tapes were revealed. We could see McConnell make that walk to the White House to tell Asshat that if he does not resign he will be the first American President to be removed from office. It could happen.

You just know that R302 is DYING to shout out "LIBTARDS!" instead of his constant "The Dems" but he's trying to stay in character as detailed in his talking points script.

Read the bio of Kurt Volker. These are the guys who run the world - guys you never heard of. People keep saying he was in the Obama administration. He was only a temporary holdover from the Bush administration until Obama got around to replacing him a few months after being inaugurated. Reminder, there are a gazillion people a new president has to vet and appoint. Volker has always worked for republicans. He not one of ours. He set up Giuliani with Zelenskyy’s guy.

On a side note, does anyone else find Ukraine prez Volodymyr Zelensky hot? I would enjoy fucking him hard.

Hot piece of ass.

Does anyone know what Cheeto is up to today?

He's not tweeting, which is surprising.

I was wondering the same thing. I assumed it would be a Mar A Go Low weekend but maybe he's trapped in the White House with Kellyanne and a Ouija board, trying to figure out what the fuck to do now.

He stayed in the WH this weekend, huddled with lawyers -- and I would imagine, Corey Lewandowski, who he wants to head the "throw all the shit at the Democrats we can" anti-impeachment campaign.

I thought he went golfing with The Senatrice

I also think that the Republican donor class is done with him. Elizabeth Warren is surging, and that's more terrifying than a Trump impeachment. If they get Trump out quickly enough, the donor class can find a moderate candidate to primary a compromised Pence.

Dumbass KamalaHarris is trying to make it all about her by calling for Kavanaugh impeachment...again.

Bitch, FOCUS. This is about Trump. We lost senators in 2018 because the Kavanaugh hearing did not play in Peoria. This is an international scandal. Fade, girl.

[quote] At this point, this is like Watergate when the tapes were discovered. It will take time but once the public hears Trump making deals with Putin or others it will turn the public against him in huge numbers. God only knows what kind of treasonous shit he said.

I agree with eldergay. If the impeachment trial were held today with the evidence out there, GOP senators wouldn't convict. But in the next two weeks, god only knows what kind of stuff is going to come out. The resignations have already begun, which is a sign that the things yet revealed are really bad.

[quote] You just know that [R302] is DYING to shout out "LIBTARDS!" instead of his constant "The Dems" but he's trying to stay in character as detailed in his talking points script.

You INCREDIBLE cretin! I can guarantee you I am a far more ardent liberal democrat than you could ever think of being. Mental cases like you should be anesthetized for their own safety. I'm just sad I couldn't meet you so I could spit in your face. You pathetic piece of human excrement.

R315 sounds like the very model of an ardent liberal Democrat. Somewhere, Eleanor Roosevelt is smiling.

R315, why are you so upset? Seriously. It's just a message board.

He threw the charge “traitor” at the WB because the charge was thrown at him. It’s his usual projection.

LOL, R316!

[quote] I also think that the Republican donor class is done with him.

At least the Mercers are done with Trump.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall when Trump talks to legal council.

I can picture him sitting in his "little boy" posture, legs apart, arms crossed, pouting expression on his face.

r315 is using the Republican tactic of "attack brutally" when challenged, with his over the top response. I wasn't entirely sure before about him being a troll, but from that response, it's kind of obvious now.

[quote]I thought he went golfing with The Senatrice

You're right -- I saw it reported yesterday that he'd canceled golf to consult with his lawyers. But Kyle Griffin tweets:

According to the pool report, Trump has arrived at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, VA.

This is Trump's 233rd day at a Trump golf club and 306th day at a Trump property as president.

If he wasn't leaving Washington it's probably because he was meeting with Congresspeople. Otherwise he'd haul the lawyers etc. with him to Mar-a-Lago.

[quote] We lost senators in 2018 because the Kavanaugh hearing did not play in Peoria.

Which ones?

And what I'm entirely sure about you R322 is you're the usual DL rabble rousing shitstain with a severe personality disorder.

Damn, r326, that was projection on a Trumpian level.

r325, Claire McCaskill and Heidi Heitkamp, possibly, though both were already in trouble before Kavanaugh came along.

... and I was that whistle blower.

The was a thread about a week or so ago (I forget which one or I'd link to it) where PollTroll listed about 5 Democrats that were done in by the Kavanaugh confirmation.

Oooooh, are the t-shirts for sale, R329?

R253 ["Call me crazy, but I took a different view of Hillary not campaigning in Wisconsin in 2016. I think she assumed voters would know a blatant, overtly self-dealing, bigoted corrupt Con Man, that is Trump when they saw one, and didn't need to be steered away from him."]

I have a theory that I've posted numerous times on various threads since November 2016. A lot of people agree with me, and well, it's not like I'm the only one who came up with this theory and believes it.

My belief is that on top of everything else, Putin was able to hack the election tallies in states. Switch numbers, eliminate votes, etc. Evidence was uncovered in 21 states including Florida, but the press made little mention of it...So the technology is there! Trump gave a rally in Wisconsin a week before the election. Most pundits thought it was a ridiculous move and whoever on his campaign decided to send him there was an idiot...... A week later, he "wins" Wisconsin by less than .5 percent. Suddenly, the campaign person who made that decision was a political genius! Maybe, but what if they already knew they were intending on stealing Wisconsin?, (and other states), There was no guarantee the hacking would succeed, but they still had to make it look plausible. So make sure Trump holds a rally one week before. The belief will be that Trump changed minds.... (if I'm right, Hillary was right about Wisconsin - and lots of other things).

If you look at all the possible but highly improbable results of the 2016 election, but look at them from back to front considering what we know now, it becomes more and more obvious tallies could have been rigged. In no way, shape or form is Donald Trump a legitimate president!

R279 That kind of doesn't work if it's during the day. Shep Smith, Chris Wallace, (and occasionally) Bret Baire have been delivering factual news. .In fact, Shep is currently in battle with the Prime Time Trump Trio about the lies they are sprouting. As hard as it is to believe, Fox does actually have a News Division with ethical journalists, but nobody watches them. It's the evil Trump Trio of Carlson, Hannity, Ingraham, and a few on the weekend Prime time including "Judge" Jeanine Pirro. They should all be thrown into a grease pit!

R332 you're exactly right. That's what went down. Remember that number people 77,744 votes. Scott Walker was never going to allow Wisconsin to go Democratic. Hillary could have rented a house and camped out in Wisconsin for weeks and nothing would have helped. THere are people out here determined to blame her for the loss even though we all know by now the fucking election was stolen.

R334 There are many other examples as well. Specific ones. If I had time I'd lay out a few, but I don't have the time and it all kind of seems irrelevant now.

The thing I'm getting more and more pissed about is: If a simple nobody like me suspected this and came up with this theory, why didn't Hillary or Obama or anyone of these people we've been counting on? Why did Hillary fold so easily? I'm such an idiot, I believed that the Dems knew it was rigged and there was some secret plan (yes, DEEP STATE), in progress and Hillary had to keep quiet until the truth came out. Damn, why didn't she yell and scream - like any Republican would have and has done in the past? I guess the Dems are just great at being bullied! One exception, however, is Stacey Abrams in Georgia. She still hasn't conceded. Why couldn't Hilary have been more like her?

Are we really relitigating the 2016 election?! Focus, Christ!

No, we're looking back at its anomalies in light of what's become known since.

I want to know more about the communication between servers in Trump Tower and Alfa Bank. Clearly Trump and his campaign were talking to Russian money people (and in Russia all big money goes back to Putin).

Obama made Hillary concede R335. She didn't want to. As much as anyone Barack is responsible for what happened in 2016. He was more concerned with his place in history than exposing Russian interference, a stolen election and Comey's smear campaign.

R337 no, you're just inventing stuff and sharing conspiracy theories that help no one, based on assumptions about things we already knew. There's actual crimes that have proof staring you in the face.

"As much as anyone Barack is responsible for what happened in 2016. "

What horseshit, r338. We KNOW who are real enemies are--Putin and Trump and their entire posse.

*who our real enemies are

R338, blaming the black man.

R338, you are patently insane, pure and simple.

R338, R335 here. I believe Barack Obama was the most honest and ethical President in my lifetime! I loved him. Unfortunately, I think I'm in agreement with you, (at least somewhat). I'm sort of in denial about it because, well, it's just too devastating for me to fully accept.

Or r338 is just a tedious troll. Your choice.

R344... for Christ's sake... get a grip.

Putin’s man gave Hillary pneumonia. It’s an effective idea, and limited her campaigning ability.

Unless I missed it, old walrus ass Chris Christie has been conspicuously silent since this brouhaha started. I wonder if he's running (or more likely rolling) scared for some reason.

R348, You did miss it. Christie was interviewed on Good Morning America, the morning the transcript was released. What he said was quite funny. Something along the lines of "as long as Trump didn't say 'Do me a favor'. I'm sure there is a video clip somewhere.....

The “Do me a favor...” is a real mafiosa saying. It’s often followed by “go fuck yourself”.

The Democrats are trying to take away healthcare?

Desperation here....

[quote][R337] no, you're just inventing stuff and sharing conspiracy theories that help no one, based on assumptions about things we already knew. There's actual crimes that have proof staring you in the face.

??? The Alfa Bank-Trump Tower connection is a conspiracy theory? It's been established that there was communication leading up to the election, and given Trump's other connections to Russia it's worth exploring. These threads are for drawing evidence together and looking at Trump's whole record, the whole context of the "crimes that have proof staring you in the face," so enough with your hall monitoring.

People have a hard time with the truth. I didn't say Obama was the cause, I said he could have circumvented it, drawn attention to the evidence of Russian tampering, either before or immediately following the election results. He was hoping for a better outcome. The Comey letter in the last 2 weeks of the campaign was totally without merit and highly suspicious too. Barack did nothing. He KNEW. It's well known that he insisted Hillary concede when she had no desire to. Some of us were there at Tillary and Clinton. For a whole fucking year. How dare you call me a troll. I loved Obama too. Still do, for his best qualities. But they're not all good. Even his final speeches as president told people that the future was in their hands. Well, it wasn't a month before was it? Not really. This is not a conspiracy theory. Obama and Michelle will go on to do great things for Americans. But he had no interest in justice or fair play, or to be honest - in supporting Hillary in the final days of his term. He underestimated the damage that Trump would do. Obama's legacy is now as tarnished as the rest.

What Obama didn't do for black people is far more historically significant that giving a big up to gay marriage. OLD gay men are as narrow focused as any other "identity" politics characters. It's disappointing.

R353 A very thoughtful and articulate post. Thank you.

"But he had no interest in justice or fair play, or to be honest - in supporting Hillary in the final days of his term. He underestimated the damage that Trump would do. Obama's legacy is now as tarnished as the rest."

Anyone who says this is no "Barack" lover and has no relationship with truth.

Troll.

I just don't believe this--not the money, of course. Call me a conspiracist, but I believe the Republicans, (and maybe Democrats too) have some type of organized system set up where they are funneling money through fake accounts to always give the appearance (and grab a headline) that there are "X" number of small donors contributing funds.

Donald J. Trump Retweeted

Eric Trump @EricTrump: UPDATE: We have now raised almost $15 million in small dollar donations (including 50,000 NEW donors) since @SpeakerPelosi started this impeachment charade 72 hrs ago! Unbelievable numbers!! Keep it going — you and the dems are handing @realDonaldTrump the win in 2020! 🤛👍🇺🇸

The fact of the matter is he committed a crime. It is provable and punishable.

[quote] I didn't say Obama was the cause, I said he could have circumvented it, drawn attention to the evidence of Russian tampering, either before or immediately following the election results. He was hoping for a better outcome. The Comey letter in the last 2 weeks of the campaign was totally without merit and highly suspicious too. Barack did nothing. He KNEW. It's well known that he insisted Hillary concede when she had no desire to....

What do you believe he should have done, R353?

Also "drop dead", r350...

How do you impeach a President who has created the greatest Economy in the history of our Country, entirely rebuilt our Military into the most powerful it has ever been, Cut Record Taxes & Regulations, fixed the VA & gotten Choice for our Vets (after 45 years), & so much more?...

r360 when that president shows up let me know?

EXXCUSE ME... whats the point of this thread again? There is already the impeachment investigation thread series. Please direct your traffic there and stop wasting precious viewing space for thong at the beach type threads.

Nevada Republican Rep. Mark Amodei said Friday he supports the process playing out in the formal impeachment inquiry into Donald Trump, but said he does not support impeaching the President.

Amodei is the first House Republican to publicly show support for the inquiry since House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's announcement of the probe this week.

"Let's put it through the process and see what happens," Amodei said on a call with reporters, according to audio posted by The Nevada Independent.

"In no way, shape, or form, did I indicate support for impeachment," Amodei clarified in a later statement.

I’m not a fan of the 4,000 Treason Pun threads. This one is fine.

The case has to be rock solid in the eyes of the public. LIke irrefutable he is fucking guilty because it takes a supermajority of the senate to impeach. The only way that will happen is with the court of public opinion.

Okay, R356; you're a conspiracist.

All of the whack-job talk of conspiracy theories does no one any good. Hillary isn't ever going to be president no matter how much you/we hoped that would be the case. Let. It. Go. Worry about the present day; there's plenty here to worry about.

I fucking hate Republicans. Every goddamn one of them.

The Trump administration is investigating the email records of dozens of current and former senior State Department officials who sent messages to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s private email, reviving a politically toxic matter that overshadowed the 2016 election, current and former officials said.

As many as 130 officials have been contacted in recent weeks by State Department investigators — a list that includes senior officials who reported directly to Clinton as well as others in lower-level jobs whose emails were at some point relayed to her inbox, said current and former State Department officials. Those targeted were notified that emails they sent years ago have been retroactively classified and now constitute potential security violations, according to letters reviewed by The Washington Post.

In virtually all of the cases, potentially sensitive information, now recategorized as “classified,” was sent to Clinton’s unsecure inbox.

State Department investigators began contacting the former officials about 18 months ago, after President Trump’s election, and then seemed to drop the effort before picking it up in August, officials said.

Senior State Department officials said that they are following standard protocol in an investigation that began during the latter days of the Obama administration and is nearing completion.

“This has nothing to do with who is in the White House,” said a senior State Department official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about an ongoing probe. “This is about the time it took to go through millions of emails, which is about 3½ years.”

To many of those under scrutiny, including some of the Democratic Party’s top foreign policy experts, the recent flurry of activity surrounding the Clinton email case represents a new front on which the Trump administration could be accused of employing the powers of the executive branch against perceived political adversaries.

The existence of the probe follows revelations that the president used multiple levers of his office to pressure the leader of Ukraine to pursue investigations that Trump hoped would produce damaging information about Democrats, including potential presidential rival Joe Biden.

(It continues, but WaPo is acting up and I can't copy/paste the rest of it).

"Those targeted were notified that emails they sent years ago have been retroactively classified and now constitute potential security violations, according to letters reviewed by The Washington Post."

R367: Definition of fascism:

A political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, [bold] and forcible suppression of opposition [/bold]

We’re finally getting to the part in bold.

[quote]Hillary isn't ever going to be president no matter how much you/we hoped that would be the case. Let. It. Go.

I have, R366. I have long ago. I don't know why you even bring up Hillary Clinton. It's obvious that you missed the point I was making.

Mike Pompeo is investigating Hillary’s emails according to bombshell Washington Post report

^They're flailing now

He should be investigating Trump's tweets since he has already tweeted classified information, as well as Ivanka using her personal email to send classified information. I think these people fail to understand they are supposed to uphold the law of the land, not the will of the leader.

Exactly, r373.

Investigating a political opponent using government resources is one of the first signs of fascism.

Witch hunt indeed.

A comment from the WashPo article:

The entire federal government is now just one big criminal organization under a lunatic sociopath. Barr and Pompeo are equally sunk in the vile, corrupt slime that coats everything Trump touches, although these two come to it naturally. Congrats America, we are now some two-bit banana republic ruled by a lead paint-eating despot.

[quote]Investigating a political opponent using government resources is one of the first signs of fascism.

I don't even think that the Trump people are even thinking like that R376. To me they're just using buzz words, (Hillary Clinton), in hopes of just triggering their base. What will this be? Investigation number 1000?

Another comment:

I urge everyone to pick up a copy of political activist and former world chess champion Garry Kasparov’s book “Winter is Coming.”

The parallels of how Putin took (stole) power slowly bit by bit is frighteningly similar to what is happening here in the U.S. with Trump. Prosecuting political enemies, attacking news organizations, journalists and our free press, siphoning our tax dollars into his properties, rewarding those who "play ball", etc.

Congress is derelict in its duty to protect us citizens. You must impeach and remove this traitor, dictator-wannabe, criminal thug as soon as possible ... or our country is done.

[quote]Congress is derelict in its duty to protect us citizens.

REPUBLICANS are derelict in their duty to protect us citizens.

I fixed it for you.

You're welcome.

The emails I'm getting from Trump are increasingly FREQUENT and INSANE:

[quote] We just sent President Trump a list of everyone who’s contributed toward our Q3 fundraising goal, and he couldn’t believe that your name was still MISSING.

[quote] In this impeachment fight, you’re either with President Trump or you’re with Nancy Pelosi, Ilhan Omar, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and their unhinged SOCIALIST MOB...

[quote] This is so important that we’ve extended our QUADRUPLE-MATCH offer another 24 hours until 11:59 PM TONIGHT.

[quote]The was a thread about a week or so ago (I forget which one or I'd link to it) where PollTroll listed about 5 Democrats that were done in by the Kavanaugh confirmation.

Not quite. What he said was that the Kavanaugh confirmation hurt some of the Democratic candidates in red states, like McCaskill in Missouri and Heitkamp in North Dakota. He didn't say that it caused their defeat; just that it caused their poll numbers to drop by a bit.

Ya know... I just heard the Jon Voight nonsense. He said that the left are angry. Ted Cruz said the left are angry, This one and that one says that the left are angry. Has someone asked any of these people why they feel the left are angry?

Here are the Sunday morning lineups....

ABC's "This Week": Rudy Giuliani, President Donald Trump's personal lawyer; Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif.

NBC's "Meet the Press": Schiff; Steve Scalise, R-La.; Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif.

CBS' "Face the Nation": Giuliani; Sens. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., and Chris Murphy, D-Conn.; Reps. Will Hurd, R-Texas, and Terri Sewell, D-Ala.

CNN's "State of the Union": Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J.; Reps. Elissa Slotkin, D-Mich., Hakeem Jeffries, D-N.Y., and Jim Jordan, R-Ohio.

"Fox News Sunday": White House senior adviser Stephen Miller; Jeffries.

Is this new resuscitation of the Hillary emails thing going to solidify his base, who have heard it over and over, let alone win over enough of the middle? My sense (admittedly I don't think like a Trump supporter) is that the middle and left will roll their eyes, and he'll actually lose some support because it's such an obviously threadbare move—a sign that he has nothing. And it might even stir up more opposition than it solidifies support.

I'd say a similar thing about his and his supporters' repeated claim that the impeachment inquiry is just a distraction from getting legislation passed. For every voter that claim persuades, isn't there a voter it reminds that he actually hasn't had an active legislative program except for (unpopular) tax cuts for the rich and overturning health insurance?

R382, it kills me when Trump calls other people “unhinged” or similar. Maybe he doesn’t know what it means? Otherwise I can’t imagine why he draws attention to himself that way.

Projection r388

R387, my first thought was that he had ordered State Department staff to try to find out if there was any way to connect Hilary's staff, the emails, and Biden, to create some giant conspiracy/corruption narrative. (Projection, of course).

(tweeted an hour ago)

"Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

I appeal to honest and fair minded Democrats to realize that “equal treatment under law” is necessary for domestic tranquillity. We are all Americans. The differing treatment by media and law enforcement for Trumps vs. Bidens and Clintons is a real problem for all of us to solve."

To me, this reeks of desperation. So too is the announcement of ANOTHER Hillary Clinton email investigation.

Americans should already be in the streets, but I guess it's easier to tweet than to march.

Tomorrow morning's news shows are going to be wild, I bet.

The whole Biden thing was invented by Trump with not a shred of evidence of any illegality. It’s truly unAmerican.

[quote]The whole Biden thing was invented by Trump with not a shred of evidence of any illegality. It’s truly unAmerican.

Of course it is, R394. But. here's the danger, (in my opinion) with that; Clearly this Administration and the Republicans are working with the attitude of if you repeat something over and over again that people will eventually believe it.

I would think that it has now reached the point that instead of the media being afraid of being called liberal and biased that it would be offended and look to rip the heads off of this Administration and its supporters.

Let him go after Hillary all he wants. She'll be fine and he'll be wasting his time fighting a fight that was over years ago. Meanwhile, it won't divert anyone from him and his bozo mafia.

Wall Street Journal:

On more than one occasion, John Kelly, who was often in the room during calls with world leaders, briefly muted the line so he could caution President Trump against continuing to talk about sensitive subjects.

AP:

"So, suddenly, Washington is different and the history of Trump’s presidency has changed. By year’s end, he could become only the third American president impeached by the House of Representatives."

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

The only people that don’t like my conversation with the new Ukrainian President are those that heard Rep. Adam Schiff read a made up and totally fraudulent statement to the House and public, words that I did not say but that he fabricated (& admitted to this fabrication). Sick!

FLAILING!

“White House was also embarrassed when it was reported #Trump had congratulated #Putin on a phone call shortly after a Russian election widely seen as illegitimate. White House staff had written a memo specifically recommending Trump "do not congratulate””.

Julia Ioffe wrote a great article back in July 2018. Her claim was that The Presidency WAS the quid pro quo Putin gave to Trump. What we just learned about Trump's conversation in the oval office with the Russian diplomats validates her claim.. Its a good read,,,

AP reports that AG William Barr was “surprised and angry” to discover he had been lumped in with Rudy Giuliani by the president.

"Through their collective silence, Republicans are telling the American people they either tolerate or condone the president’s actions...normalizing behavior by the president that is far beyond past standards."

If Barr cancels that party he booked at Trump Hotel, that'll be ...interesting...

Chris Christie has made numerous comments on the growing scandal, not just on ABC but in other venues, as he's promoting the opening of his new institute promoting bi-partisanship. He initially said that Trump would be in trouble if he used the phrase "Do me a favor...." When it turned out Trump used that phrase, Christie dialed it back and said that's just the way that Trump talks. He's hasn't said that Trump didn't do it, he's just positioned it that Trump does what he wants and Congress has shown itself incapable of reining him in. His advice to Trump was to find out the facts - this echoes his advice during Muellergate, that Trump should do an internal investigation to find out what really happened (advice that Trump ignored). Christie gives this same advice whenever some politician has a scandal, based on his Bridgegate experience.

Christie was also asked if this would hurt Biden. Christie said that in the short-term it helps Biden, because it forces the other Democrats to support him, but in the long run, it's going to come up again some time in 2020.

R406 Chris Christie starting a foundation for bipartisanship? He really has no ethics or soul, does he. What a cynical boob.

Dear Rudy Guiliani - when anyone named Trump testifies before Congress for 19 hours...then we will have equal treatment under the law.

Meanwhile, r372, the House will be investigating him. Stupid twat.

[quote]Trump should do an internal investigation to find out what really happened

We already KNOW what happened.

So does Trump, r410, because he instigated the felonies (plural).

Trump is so brazen. The timing of this current inquisition is exactly the kind of thing that stands out with the Ukraine problem - release of the money immediately following.the whole thing becoming public knowledge.

Christie started the Christie Institute at his alma mater. The plan is to have quarterly lectures related to bi-partisanship, as well as scholarships and internships for students that want to focus their careers in public policy. They just had the first speakers - Christie and Andrew Cuomo, talking about how although they were from different parties, they were able to work together, particularly on Hurricane Sandy aid.

[quote]Investigating a political opponent using government resources is one of the first signs of fascism.

HRC is not even a political opponent anymore, and I agree that the new "but her emails" investigation is so transparently desperate that it will fizzle at least, backfire at most.

So according to PoliticalWire:

“The Republican leadership issued a memo Saturday clarifying that the Senate must take action if the House of Representatives approves articles of impeachment against President Trump,” the HuffPost reports.

“The statement came in response to concerns that the Senate could simply refuse to hold a trial.”

Apparently Rudy has been fucking around in the Ukraine for year...this is going to be interesting. It would be hilarious if Rudy goes to prison too.

Off topic -" Ukraine" is the country, it's not " The Ukraine." Just substitute " Spain." We would never say " The Spain." SO .......... " his trips to Ukraine."

and it's not The Whole Foods either!

I want Rudy to be at least disbarred.

‘I wish he would shut the heck up’: Republicans sour on Giuliani--Even some of president's closest Hill allies say Giuliani isn't helping the president.

Republicans had enough headaches to deal with this week. Then Hurricane Rudy blew into town.

As the GOP scrambles to contain the fallout from President Donald Trump’s Ukraine controversy, Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani has inserted himself directly into the center of a crisis that has engulfed the White House and brought impeachment closer to Trump’s doorstep. And Republicans want him to stop.

"I have great respect for Mr. Giuliani, but I said this yesterday and take it for what it's worth: He's wild as a March hare,” said Sen. John Kennedy (R-La.). “He's like a lot of senators, he's kind of a free range chicken, he kind of gets out there. What he says is his business, I don't speak for him."

Others put it more bluntly.

“I think it would be a good thing if he would go take a vacation,” a senior GOP lawmaker told POLITICO, one of several who declined to go on the record so they could speak critically of Giuliani.

Even some of Trump’s top allies on Capitol Hill don’t think Giuliani is doing the president or the party any favors by being such a constant presence in the media.

“Rudy’s saying a lot of things and I’m not sure he’s helping the president by being on TV every 15 minutes,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) told reporters this week.

"The Ukraine" was the normal way of referring to the country in English until its independence in 1991, when for some reason the definite article stopped being used. Those of us who came of age before then sometimes slip and use the old style.

I just call it "Zagreb", because that's the only city name I know in the Ukraine and it sounds funny.

The thing about all the nonsense that Rudy spews: who would ever have thought the Rs could make an effective weapon of Hillary’s emails? Even now, if you ask a Deplorable what the problem with them was, they either won’t know; or they’ll list something that is not illegal or even immoral; or they will list something that is factually wrong. So, Rudy just throws everything against the wall to see what sticks, and it could be anything, apparently!

I’m sure Hillary was dumbstruck when the accusations started and figured it would subside when people realized how empty the charges were.

R422, Zagreb, is in Croatia, unless there are two, I believe. Kiev is in Ukraine, though. You could use that.

Chicken Kiev is good.

[quote]Mike Pompeo is investigating Hillary’s emails according to bombshell Washington Post report... They're flailing now

They been doing it at least six months now. He MUST have his revenge and if this hadn't happened they might have railroaded her just like they wanted fake dirt on Biden backed up by the President of Ukraine.

[quote]Those targeted were notified that emails they sent years ago have been retroactively classified and now constitute potential security violations, according to letters reviewed by The Washington Post.

Ex post facto is unconstitutional. Not that his base will care ...

Cheeto has tweeted or retweeted about 20 times RE: Mark Levin on Fox this morning.

He's fucking insane.

Can it be that Trump is panicked that his base may abandon him? If he is, now, that is proof that the cheese is off the cracker.

They'll follow him off a cliff.

I've never seen his retweet so frantically.

R429 no, he is furious at being challenged and is throwing everything out to see what sticks.

[quote]"The Ukraine" was the normal way of referring to the country in English until its independence in 1991, when for some reason the definite article stopped being used. Those of us who came of age before then sometimes slip and use the old style.

It was "normal" because it was referring to the Ukraine region of the Soviet Union.

Also, why would the Secretary of State be investigating something?

Hopefully this renewed focus on trying to lock Hillary up will intensify focus on Javanka's emails along with that secret server.

I believe that the impeachment process will eventually uncover that Cheeto and his crumbs knew in advance about the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, if not approved or suggested it.

Because he's slime, R433, and because these were State Department communications, to and from members of the State Department. From the WP account, he's not personally investigating but it's pretty clear that the Secretary of State would have to have approved the investigation.

[quote]The probe is being carried out by investigators from the State Department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security.

...

[quote]Several of those who have been questioned said that the State Department Bureau of Diplomatic Security investigators made it clear that they were pursuing the matter reluctantly, and under external pressure.

Who is Mark Levin and what is he saying to make Plumpy go crazy?

Hopefully one of the investigators will blow the whistle too.

He's a rabid right-wing attack dog, R436. Apparently, he defended Trump on Fox News. A sample:

[quote]“I don’t care what the media think,” Mr. Levin said of recent news cycles. “See that over my shoulder [the book ‘Unfreedom of the Press’]? We know that they’re incapable of covering this because of their ideology, but the truth shall set us free. I understand what the Democrats are doing in the House. I understand. They want to destroy the president. They’re using their committees as opposition research. They’re circling the wagons. They’re trying to immunize Biden. What’s going on in the Republican senate? … Oh, Hunter Biden, we can’t touch him. But Don Jr., and Eric, and Jared Kushner and Ivanka — they’re free game? Hell no. We should turn the script. And here’s the difference: Biden is corrupt, Trump is not.”

It's " Ukraine" and " The Data Lounge."

"And here’s the difference: Biden is corrupt, Trump is not.”

The statute of limitations on the email stuff is 5 years, so Hillary and associates are safe; however, it seems like an abuse of power to me, by the administration. That’s an impeachable offense.

My Grandma once mentioned that she called Cushman-Berk, the car dealer, for help. But it hadn’t been named that in literally 20 years. Didn’t ask where she got the phone number.

Levin sorta reminds me of that other lunatic, "Coach" Dave Daubenmire.

R441, per the Washington Post article, it's not about criminal prosecution, as none of these cases is being prosecuted. It's about harassment and keeping "but her emails" fresh in the minds of their base.

[quote]who would ever have thought the Rs could make an effective weapon of Hillary’s emails?

I wonder will they investigate the Trump emails and the same thing that they are accusing Hillary Clinton of?

On another note. the Trump pundits are falling apart this morning:

Oliver Darcy @oliverdarcy

"Sir, that's not what happened"

Worth watching this entire @jaketapper interview with @Jim_Jordan. Jordan tries floating the same talking points he peddles with ease in the right-wing media universe, and they fall apart as Tapper introduces facts into the equation.

Hilary's email bs is tantamount to "I know you are, but what am I?" If tRump or his tRumptards thought about it, it's like saying, "I know what I did was illegal... but her emails!!!" It's classic projection. The only thing is Hilary has long been vindicated. It'd be nice if she'd litigate. There must be some way she can.

[quote]Who is Mark Levin

Israeli firster.

The best part was Jake getting in a slam about Jim's own problems of "being accused of things". It was great.

And I can't believe Deplorables can still get riled by Hillary's emails. Aren't even they sick of this?

Aaron Rupar @atrupar

Jake Tapper called out Jim Jordan for tossing around unfounded allegations about Hunter Biden -- something you'd think Jordan would be more careful about given credible allegations about his role in an Ohio State sexual abuse scandal

Why is this guy obsessing about someone getting $50K? Like Ivanka and Jared aren't making the same?

Jim Roberts @nycjim: Wow. Rep. Jim Jordan gets OWNED by @jaketapper

And, below is the Mark Levin interview that the unwashed, including Trump, are pushing;

.

[quote]And I can't believe Deplorables can still get riled by Hillary's emails. Aren't even they sick of this?

I doubt very many Deplorables even have a clue as to what was controversial about Hillary's emails in the first place. It's just another mindless right-wing mantra, like "Benghazi!"

So this morning for the GOP Jordan was destroyed by Tapper, Chris Wallace basically slapped Stephen Miller all over the studio and Lindsey was doing his best hysterical Aunt Pitty Pat on CBS and looked a fool. If that's all they could come up with this morning they are in trouble.

The Stephen Miller fiasco;

"You have your non-answer" -- watch Chris Wallace grill Stephen Miller about why Trump thought it was appropriate to use his private attorney to dig up dirt on Biden -- and not let Miller get away with obfuscating.

Chris Christie said on This Week that Trump is definitely getting impeached. HIs advice was that the Dems should slow things down so it looks fair.

[quote]Lindsey was doing his best hysterical Aunt Pitty Pat on CBS and looked a fool.

Trump's self-appointed toady is making himself look increasingly desperate and ridiculous. Hopefully that will come back to bite him in next year's election.

When you have Chris Christie giving advice to the Democrats on how to get rid of Dump, you know we're all in for a fucking ride on this tsunami of corruption.

r428 Did anyone else see in that Tweet storm that Trump re-tweeted a parody account called Trump But About Sharks?

[quote] It was "normal" because it was referring to the Ukraine region of the Soviet Union.

Not exactly. No one ever referred to "the Latvia" or "the Kazakhstan." Ukraine originally had a definite article because it was from a term meaning "borderland" and so is analogous to "the Marches" (in various places). In English the usage became fossilized (cf. "the Bronx"). Since 1991, however, normal usage is without the definite article.

"Fuck 'em!" -

Unbleeped Robert DeNiro just now on CNN when told that Fox viewers will come after him for his remarks about Trump.

I want to know which one of you bitches this is?

Dear lord, Stephen Miller will never, ever outgrow his unsocialized Young Republican creepy-college-kid persona.

Where IS Jared hiding?

George Stephanopoulos said that Pompeo and Pence will probably be called to testify. That's going to be fun.

"Where IS Jared hiding?"

Behind Ivanka's beef curtains, as he has always done.

r463, WH staff have always complained that, conveniently, Jared and Ivanka never seem to be around when the shit hits the fan.

There will be some article leaked to a friendly outlet soon that says they're "concerned but working behind the scenes to make things right"! Of course it's from Ivanka PR.

More than Melania, I would say that Ivanka is our First Cunt.

I wondered today what is Melania thinking right now? What's her game?

[quote]I wondered today what is Melania thinking right now?

He better not be spending my future alimony money sending that rat-face Rudy all over the world.

I'm sure Melania would love it if Fecal Cheeto went to jail.

r469, Melania is having the hot Secret Service dude re-apply the lubricant so they can go at it again.

So Obama is to blame but McConnell gets a pass? McConnell who refused to cooperate with Obama to publicly tell Russia to back off and stop interefering in our elections?

Miss Lindsey just had all of her petticoats and pantaloons aflutter! She most certainly was feelin' her vapors!

[quote]I wondered today what is Melania thinking right now?

I really don't care. Do U?

[quote]and Lindsey was doing his best hysterical Aunt Pitty Pat on CBS

R453, keep that SHIT on your Mueller/Treason/Lindsay threads.

All we ever hear on “the news” is talking points.

You know what I’d like to see on Sunday shows? Experts on the Ukraine & Russia talking about the situation. Not politicians and partisan cutouts. People with actual knowledge giving background and analysis.

Melania loves the power being First Whore gives her.

She is NOT looking forward to Trump being deposed. Stop with that ridiculous shit here.

I REALLY DON'T CARE, DO U? is all you need to remember.

And no one will watch, R477. Save it for PBS.

Kyle Griffin:

Fox News reported that two frequent guests on the network, Joe diGenova and his wife Victoria Toensing, were "working off the books" to help Rudy Giuliani dig up dirt on Biden—and the only person who knew about their involvement was Trump himself.

Not "deposed" - "DETHRONED!" is what I meant at R478.

Exactly, R477. Because at the end of the day, the public needs to understand in the simplest terms why Ukraine is important to us and our national security, and to the rest of Europe and NATO. We need to understand why withholding aide that was already approved by Congress is wrong. Trump has threatened to do similarly to Mexico and other countries. He thinks he is a "tough negotiator" and the dumbasses who support him think so too. To me the small bites the pubic will understand is that he invited a foreign government to interfere in our election and he got caught. Also when he admitted to the Russians that he was glad they helped him, that was the absolute worse. I believe this is a situation where some Audio of Trump groveling to Putin would be great. Even better if we get Putin on tape "advising" Trump, and prodding him to do stuff.

I have this theory that Melania is being paid quite a lot of money to stay with Donnie and help keep him calm, sort of be his minder, etc. by Putin. I've watched closely the body language when they are with Putin, and it's as if Mel & Vlad have a secret.

Britain still calls Yemen “the Yemen.”

The Crimea is a thing.

Then there’s the United Staes, the United Kingdom

God, DLers can get obsessed with the dumbest things. Ukraine is now called Ukraine, regardless of whether that makes sense to you or whether there are historical precedents that could have led to sticking with "the Ukraine." Just called it what it's called and move on, ffs.

Trump has never realized, or accepted, the fact that being President is not the same as running his own company. As far as he is concerned, the US government is totally his to control and his actions/decisions should not be subject to objection or scrutiny.

Bohemia!

The Austro-Hungarian Empire!

Gaul!

Pangea!

r480, I hope those 2 cunts get disbarred too.

[quote]God, DLers can get obsessed with the dumbest things. Ukraine is now called Ukraine, regardless of whether that makes sense to you or whether there are historical precedents that could have led to sticking with "the Ukraine." Just called it what it's called and move on, ffs.

Not that you're fixed on something that doesn't matter or anything.

HESH UP, Miss Don Lemon at R474! Don't make me slap your jaws, missy!

The big thing that scares me about the the possibility of Trump being kicked out before the next election is that Pence becomes POTUS, and will surely run for re-election, and there will undoubtedly be challengers to him for the nomination. We could end up with a candidate that might prove far more difficult for us to beat than Trump would have been.

But then, I'm hoping that Pelosi assumes Trump will never be convicted by the Senate and is only using the impeachment process to further ruin Jabba's chances at reelection.

An internal fight in the GOP for the nomination, R492? Hell, yeah. With that kind of fight among the incumbent party, the opposition party's chances always increase.

In any case, I think the chances of such a fight are tiny, not just because I'm pretty certain that Trump won't be removed but also because, if he is, I don't see any of the others going after Pence in that way or gaining any real traction if they do.

R492, I think Trump remains a more difficult opponent to beat than Pence or the other Republicans. Trump has a strong, fanatical base, which is why he's been difficult to beat up until now. The other Republicans won't command the same loyalty from the Deplorables that he does.

[quote]The big thing that scares me about the the possibility of Trump being kicked out before the next election is that Pence becomes POTUS, and will surely run for re-election

No one but deplorables would want to see Pence as president, but that slim possibility is hardly justification for not impeaching Trump, whose crimes were already spelled out in the Mueller report, and yet given a pass. Impeachment was overdue.

In the unlikely event that the Republicans in Congress turn against Trump, the Deplorables will punish the GOP by staying home or voting them out. So getting rid of Trump would actually help us win in 2020.

Pence as the nominee would be a gift.

You mean like we thought having Trump as the nominee would be a gift??

I wish Roger Ailes was still alive and bed ridden and forced to watch all this go down.

Bridgegate is scheduled for oral arguments in January. If the Supreme Court eventually throws out the conviction on the basis of prosecutorial overreach, that sets up the narrative that Christie, at that time a popular Republican official, was the political victim of a "corrupt" Obama/Biden DOJ, the same DOJ that didn't prosecute Hillary. That allows every Republican in the country to drag Hillary's name back into the election discussion, which will motivate the Deplorables to show up again.

[quote] Fox News reported that two frequent guests on the network, Joe diGenova and his wife Victoria Toensing, were "working off the books" to help Rudy Giuliani dig up dirt on Biden—and the only person who knew about their involvement was Trump himself.

I knew about it. I posted it last week.

The IC knew about it.

R500, that’s way too complicated a narrative.

The Bronx

The Battery

The Everglades

Fox will say that Obama/Biden targeted Republicans and let Hillary off. That's not too complicated a narrative for Deplorables.

Hunter Biden has been such a fuck up his entire life while Beau was Buck x 100.

There have been so many articles written about what a fuck up he is.

Why does every political family have at least one of these greedy, moron slackers? One even became president (Dubya)

Nobody cares R505, this thread is about the Fat Orange Shit and his crimes and impeachment

[quote] Why is this guy obsessing about someone getting $50K? Like Ivanka and Jared aren't making the same?

Yeah, that was nutty. Sure, it's a lot of money, and sure, he didn't deserve it, and but, hey, it is neither illegal nor a violation of the US Constitution to get paid a fuck-ton of money for a job you're not qualified to do.

The Bronx

The Battery

The Everglades

New COUNTRIES?

^ Start your own thread if you want to keep obsessing over the word "the," weirdo.

R480 the same Joe diGenova that was throwing down with judge napolitano early this week,. Napolitano was saying on Fox News trump is in big trouble over the Ukraine stuff and digenova was saying he was dead wrong.

This is DELICIOUS

R 509, take time to read the previous posts, you lazy dolt.

Overall I think all of the Trump supporting spokespeople were terrible. This tells me that Republicans simply don't have a rebuttal for this. If more damning information comes out next week I think this will mean that Trump is indeed finished.

[quote] R 509, take time to read the previous posts, you lazy dolt.

I read them, goofball, and got sick of the tedious discussion about "Ukraine" vs. "the Ukraine." If you really think that topic is interesting or germane to the actual topic of the thread, the dolt is in the mirror.

You must be the poster who tried to make a point with this, which elicited the response.

The Bronx

The Battery

The Everglades

The The United States of The America

Barr and Pompeo are in Italy this weekend.

guess who else happens to be there right now?

Steve Bannon and several prominent Russian oligarchs.

they're figuring out how to burn the US down without leaving fingerprints.

Biden campaign demands TV networks stop booking Rudy Giuliani

Former Vice President Joe Biden's 2020 campaign demanded in a letter first reported by The Daily Beast that television networks stop booking Rudy Giuliani, arguing that he will "knowingly and willingly lie in order to advance his own narrative."

The big picture: Giuliani, President Trump's personal attorney and a frequent guest on cable news, has adamantly defended his and Trump's efforts to push Ukrainian officials to investigate Biden and his son over unsubstantiated corruption allegations. Several of Giuliani's recent appearances have gone viral due to their combative nature — most notably one with CNN's Chris Cuomo last weekend in which Giuliani was forced to walk back his claims that he never asked Ukraine to investigate Biden in the first place.

The letter from top Biden officials Anita Dunn and Kate Bedingfield argues that while journalists "have been aggressive in pushing back on [Giuliani] in real time ... it is hard for the corrections to catch up." "Giving Rudy Giuliani valuable time on your air to push these lies in the first place is a disservice to your audience and a disservice to journalism," the letter reads. The campaign also adds that should networks continue to book Giuliani, they need to be giving "an equivalent amount of time" to a Biden surrogate.

"Saying simply that you will put a Democrat on, at a time when there are many declared candidates for the Democratic nomination for the presidency, is neither fair treatment nor equal treatment."

(letter in the link)

Poll: Majority of Americans say impeachment inquiry into Trump is necessary

The poll, conducted by YouGov, shows 55% of Americans think the newly-opened probe necessary, while 45% of Americans think it unnecessary.

Among Democrats, nearly 9 in 10 approve of the inquiry and two-thirds strongly approve -- 87% of Democrats approve of the inquiry, while 77% of Republicans disapprove, according to the poll. Among Independents, 49% approve and 51% disapprove, the poll found.

Americans split on whether Trump deserves to be impeached over his actions in the handling of matters concerning Ukraine, with 42% saying he does deserve to be impeached over his actions and 36% saying he does not. Twenty-two percent say it's too soon to say, according to the poll.

^^Link to above story.

And that's before they get their hands on the secret server and the gang that couldn't shoot straight testifies live on TV.

Maybe someone should start an investigation into why Jim Jordan is paid $174k a year for a job he clearly has no qualifications for.

Is it partisan or biased if the press/media slam these right wing unwashed hard with the question; "What does this have to do with the current situation?" So far today I have read and heard about the Clinton Foundation, Hillary Clinton's emails, Joe Biden's son, etc. The only thing missing was Obama's birth certificate. ALL OF THESE ISSUES HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED AS NAUSEA!

Why allow these people to keep this up? I actually agree with the letter in R517. If the right wing complains then as Robert Deniro said... "Fuck em!"

I'm soooo tired of Democrats, (and others), being expected to "do the right thing" and take the higher and moral ground when all the Republicans and conservatives do is lie, lie, LIE!

Do you guys know that Justice Clarence Thomas’ wife is a lobbiest? It’s not a current scandal, but perhaps it should be.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Good luck with getting Schiff to resign fat boy.

Just watched Kevin McCarthy on 60 Minutes. Damn he is not too bright and his defense was so weak. He sucked hard.

Umm...has anyone told him that, unlike him, we can and do all read for ourselves?? It isn't like we haven't seen the rough transcript ourselves without any help from Adam Schiff.

This isn’t hearsay. Trump acknowledged the conversation happened and released a summary of it.

We do need to get a transcript of it. It will probably be worse.

Did you hear/see Giuliani refer to himself as “just a country lawyer”? Lol. What country? He’s no beginner.

Good! Democrats are working on Sunday!

[quote]“I’m in Texas and they have a saying here: ‘Don’t Mess with Texas.’ Well, I say, ‘Don’t Mess with the Constitution, Mr. President,’ Pelosi told fellow Democrats, according to an aide on the call.

Dem leaders plot impeachment messaging war with Trump--Pelosi and her deputies are also looking to protect vulnerable lawmakers.

House Democrats are plotting an all-out offensive against President Donald Trump as they pursue an impeachment inquiry, announcing plans on Sunday to streamline their messaging operation and aid vulnerable lawmakers as they face potential blowback in their districts.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her top deputies laid out the strategy during a private conference call Sunday afternoon. The plan reflects a deepening sentiment among Democrats that Trump’s latest scandal involving Ukraine could persuade the public to support impeachment.

[quote]In addition, I want to meet not only my accuser, who presented SECOND & THIRD HAND INFORMATION

If he wants to meet the accuser who presented firsthand information he should LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

They're trying to make this about the whistleblower, but it's ridiculous because they released the record of the call! (well some of it, anyway). What the whistleblower said has been confirmed by the call record that they themselves put out there!

[quote]They're trying to make this about the whistleblower,

It seems to me that they're trying to make it about anything except Trump.

The Tom Bossert interview where he states quite plainly that there is nothing to the Biden/Ukraine issue.

Yeah they're throwing out everything they can, trying different messages to see what fits, but the problem is, this is pretty clear cut! So they are trying to muddy the waters as much as possible. It's just ridiculous though some of the things they are saying.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump (a little over a half hour ago)

“All that’s swirling around us now is Impeachment. We talk about it day and night, it’s what’s on the news, there is NOTHING that has turned up that is Impeachable. Our founding fathers set impeachment to be extremely rare. We need to get good stuff done. Let the people vote,....

....we are going to have an Election very shortly.” Rep. Jeff Van Drew, Democrat of New Jersey. @foxandfriends Thank you. Just another Witch Hunt by Nancy Pelosi and the Do Nothing Democrats!

“State Department has stepped up Hillary Clinton Email probe.” @foxandfriends You mean the 33,000 Emails that she has deleted and acid washed so they can never be found, even though she said that all 33,000 pertained only to her daughter’s wedding, and her Yoga!

I am confused. What are the Ukraine's preferred pronouns now?

Only on DL would some deranged idiot bring the TRANS issue into impeachment.

I wish he were on the news every day. If he were, I'd watch. Maybe he should start a podcast!

Squeaky Fromme, where are you when we need you?!

[quote]No, it really isn't, as we're already seeing. They've decided that it's "hearsay" and that there was no explicit "quid pro quo," so this is just another "witch hunt."

r252 called it.

Badly balding Toppik spokesmodel, teen wrestling fan/pedo facilitator, and U.S. Representative Jim Jordan spouted all those flailing talking points this morning and was thoroughly own by Jake Tapper.

He's watching FOX and it has called in the artillery;

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

“Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats can’t put down the Impeachment match. They know they couldn’t beat him in 2016 against Hillary Clinton, and they’re increasingly aware of the fact that they won’t win against him in 2020, and Impeachment is the only tool they have to get....

....rid of Donald J. Trump - And the Democrats don’t care if they burn down and destroy this nation in the process. I have never seen the Evangelical Christians more angry over any issue than this attempt to illegitimately remove this President from office, overturn the 2016....

....Election, and negate the votes of millions of Evangelicals in the process. They know the only Impeachable offense that President Trump has committed was beating Hillary Clinton in 2016. That’s the unpardonable sin for which the Democrats will never forgive him.....

....If the Democrats are successful in removing the President from office (which they will never be), it will cause a Civil War like fracture in this Nation from which our Country will never heal.” Pastor Robert Jeffress, @FoxNews

If they'll never be successful, why is he ranting about it?

I really wish the IRS would drop tax-exempt status from churches that use their pulpits to promote politics.

He’s back on Twitter raging about the Fake News and Radical Left. Bad people. Bad!

[quote]These Radical Left, Do Nothing Democrats, are doing great harm to our Country. They are lying & cheating like never before in our Country’s history in order to destabilize the United States of America & it’s upcoming 2020 Election. They & the Fake News Media are Dangerous & Bad!

He should just start tweeting KILL ZEM!! KILL ZEM ALL!!! and go into full Hitler mode.

Has there ever been since the beginning of time a bigger victim and even bigger whiner?

Trump is such a whiney lil fuckin' pussy.

[quote]They are lying & cheating like never before in our Country’s history in order to destabilize the United States of America & it’s upcoming 2020 Election

Eldergays:

Can you tell us in which decade the Republican Party became so evil & vile? Were they always this bad? Did it happen under Nixon in the 70's? Reagan in the 80's? Under Bush, Gingrich, etc. in the 90's-2000's?

R547, it started under Reagan and culminated with Gingrich.

It started before Reagan I think but Newt Gingrich I believe where their current approacb began.

Actually it happened in the late 60s with Nixon and the beginning of the long-running reactionary efforts to counter any progressive gains of the last 50 years.

I think it was a gradual thing that started with Lee Atwater's dark arts. He worked for Reagan but was in the game at lower levels prior. Gingrich took it from bad to worse.

It was Nixon. He's the guy. He made Lee Atwater possible. He identified toxic white rage and resentment--the "Silent Majority"-- as a force that could be politically ferocious.

r531, it's what they always do: attack the messenger, bury the message. You see people do it a lot here, too. And they're not all red right trolls, but they suffer from the same denialist, authoritarian mental torpor.

Before Nixon, there was the John Birch Society.

R543: well he did openly threaten civil war today, so there's that.

A solid introduction to the racial politics of the modern GOP is Rick Perlstein's "Nixonland". As noted above, Nixon's henchmen - Lee Atwater, Roger Ailes, Pat Buchanan - were the first to weaponize white resentment to win elections.

(Two other names that might ring a bell from the Nixon years who worked for him as college Republicans - Roger Stone and Karl Rove.)

At what point did racist Southern whites shift from Dem to Rep? After the schools were desegregated?

The shift started with the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Nixon capitalized on it in the 1968 election. The shift was all but completed by the mid-80s.

As a point of no coincidence, the last Democratic president to win the white male vote was...

LBJ in 1964.

"I'm just a country lawyer."

He must be shitting his Depends every hour.

The uptick in his Twitter activity the past 24 hours is remarkable.

[quote]Like every American, I deserve to meet my accuser

My favorite Twitter response to this was just a list of the dozen or so women who have accused him of sexual assault.

Is it really wise for Biden and his people to demand the networks stop booking Giuliani? Because every time Giuliani appears on TV, he tends to dig the hole that much deeper. I'd probably say let him talk all he wants.

I'd guess Biden is actually pointing out how insane Giuliani is rather than actually expecting them not to book him.

[quote]Just watched Kevin McCarthy on 60 Minutes.

Justin Amash, tweeting about the man who used to hold sway over him as a House Republican:

Kevin McCarthy again displays his unique brand of incompetence and dishonesty.

Telling news outlets not to book Ghouliani will only make tRump's base cry censorship and give them reasons to think Biden has something to hide. News outlets like filming trainwrecks, anyway. I say let him keep talking. Sane people know he's fucked in the head.

[quote]Telling news outlets not to book Ghouliani will only make tRump's base cry censorship

"Fuck 'em!"

[quote]and give them reasons to think Biden has something to hide.

They'll make something up anyway

Yeah, R566, so let Ghouliani keep talking. The sweet thing about his verbal diarrhea is that once in awhile he gives up a nugget of truth that he didn't intend to give him, and that hurts tRump. He's his own worst enemy. And tRump's worst ally. Well, one of them.

"give up"

Why do you always misspell Giuliani R567? It's annoying.

Robert DeNiro called him crazy and a gangster on CNN. Why hasn't he tweeted and called DeNiro a bad actor and has-been, yet?

It's intentional, R 569. Get with the program.

I can somewhat understand where Biden is coming from on not booking Giuliani. I was suprised how George Stephanopolous allowed Giuliani to must steamroll through his interview on This Week. At least Brennan pushed back a bit harder on Face the Nation. I was actually suprised at Stephanopolous.

I can somewhat understand where Biden is coming from on not booking Giuliani. I was suprised how George Stephanopolous allowed Giuliani to must steamroll through his interview on This Week. At least Brennan pushed back a bit harder on Face the Nation. I was actually suprised at Stephanopolous.

[quote]I was suprised how George Stephanopolous allowed Giuliani to must steamroll through his interview on This Week.

You don't further agitate crazy. You leave them alone.

Rudy Giuliani @RudyGiuliani

I can’t believe how blind our media has become.They are blindly using the prosecutor who corruptly dismissed the cases against Biden’s son and his corrupt company. There was no investigation. Where’s the report? Use your common sense for those who haven’t lost it. Analyze it....

Bribery is offering anything of value ($1.2 billion critical loan guarantee) in exchange for official action (firing the prosecutor, corrupt or not, who is investigating your son). Bragging Biden admits it. And if you need help on whether he knew about son, plenty to come.

Right-wing media (and Trump's twitter feed) is exploding this morning with the claim that the Deep State™ secretly changed the whistleblower form in early August to allow complaints based on secondhand information, specifically to bring down Trump.

Of course, it's not true:

R574, you sure a shit agitate crazy in an interview. That's when they slip up. What you don't do is allow them to make their case relatively unchallenged. As I said, Brennan on Face The Nation did a much better job at pushing back and calling him out on his lies.

I read that Biden at the same time declined to appear on several shows. He just wanted to send his aides and the networks did not want that. It's weird he did not use these opportunities to tell his side of the story and out Trump as the corrupt bastard that he is.

All the whining, all the screaming, all their grandstanding and deflection will not make that memo they released go away. They confessed, it's there, and they themselves are digging the hole they stand in.

Too bad, so sad.

More popcorn anyone?

[quote]I read that Biden at the same time declined to appear on several shows. He just wanted to send his aides and the networks did not want that. It's weird he did not use these opportunities to tell his side of the story and out

I think Biden was/is smart to stay out of this. This is the media looking for ratings. Let Trump and his people hang themselves.

^I'm still amused Trump and his friends expected an apology from the Dems after releasing the transcript. They really thought this would actually help them.

Biden's explaining the situation gives it more publicity.

You know as I think about it, these Republican Senators. I mean yes, the GOP gerrymanders congressional districts. But Senators run statewide. So if those fuckers wanted to be heros and get some independents and even Dems to vote for them out of gratitude, they ought to support getting rid of Trump. I don't trust Floyd Flake as far as I can throw him. He and Ben Sasse, Romney and Collins are worse than the rest in some ways, because they hold out the possibility they might do the right thing then they shit all over us.

Collins is out of the same mold as a Mueller or Bill Weld republican, R583. The old timey New England Republican, the original abolitionist party faithful, are dinosaurs and need to ditch the current version or say goodbye to their political careers. Mueller obviously cared more about his country club friends than the country.

All of them, no matter how moderate, are now tainted by affiliation to overt racism, fascism and obstructionism - even treason - and only serve to confuse people by trying to appear in opposition. They had their chance and they chose him.

Fool me once....

[Quote]I think Biden was/is smart to stay out of this. This is the media looking for ratings. Let Trump and his people hang themselves.

I'm not so sure this is the best approach here. Trump's tactics worked really well in the past. He and his minions just repeat the same basic messages over and over again till his base believes it. "I did nothing wrong, it was a perfect call, Whistleblower compaint is fake and only second hand information, hearsay, deep state operative, Biden is the criminal here" etc. It's a constant, 24/7 indoctrination. For every Stephen Miller, McCarthy or Giuliani interview, we need two Dems pointing out the corruption and lies of this administration.

Biden needs to stay above the fray. That said, he needs advocates that will push back ferociously.

Adam Kinzinger @RepKinzinger

I have visited nations ravaged by civil war. @realDonaldTrump I have never imagined such a quote to be repeated by a President. This is beyond repugnant.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

The Fake News Media wants to stay as far away as possible from the Ukraine and China deals made by the Bidens. A Corrupt Media is so bad for our Country! In actuality, the Media may be even more Corrupt than the Bidens, which is hard to do!

If he pushes back, even through advocates R586, it gives the trying to look fair media a chance to put both the impeachment and anything about the Bidens on equal footing. Biden's people are smart not to respond. Let them hang themselves.

I think it's fair to say he's doing OK staying out of it, given the polling rise in those supporting the II. I think he's running a pretty lame campaign...a. bit too frontrunner. Warren is gaining ground. Whether she can sustain it is another thing. Four months ago, it's look out, Kamala's coming!

Classic Trump - blaming the Democrats for all the things he is guilty of - lying, cheating, attempting to rig elections and undermine the democracy of the country. He really is quite good at gas-lighting, considering you just know his supporters will believe him despite the overwhelming evidence.

Also, didn't he imply via Twitter that the whistleblower should be killed? "Was this person SPYING on the U.S. President? Big Consequences!"

I see he's tweeting like an absolute nut-job, again. That alone should be grounds for impeachment - everything he does just makes him look more and more guilty. The constant tweeting in ALL CAPS is clearly a strong signal that he is mentally incompetent. He should be removed now. By whatever means necessary. Why does this continue? Your country is fucked if you can't even get rid of a mentally ill criminal wannabe-dictator.

R590, we have our own lying cheating, gaslighting criminal to get rid of. Just hoping the opposition parties can compromise enough this week to get rid of him.

He's doing worse now, R590, in advocating a civil war over the impeachment. Our Constitution provides the means for removal by both the executive and congressional branches, but it requires those so chartered to have some balls. So far, only Pelosi has demonstrated her steel. The members of his Cabinet are synchophants without courage. The leadership in the Senate is silent and complicit. The impeachment is overdue, but necessary and may still result in him remaining, if impotently. We can only hope more than a few Republican Senators remember their oaths.

Mary Anne Marsh: Impeachment inquiry so far – Trump's days are numbered and never underestimate Pelosi

Lagarde on CNN: Impeachment is bad for the economy and would undermine US leadership. Fuck you! This is about our democracy and a corrupt president. All they ever think about is money.

He's totally panicking. In this leaked footage, Jared fails to soothe.

[quote]Lagarde on CNN: Impeachment is bad for the economy and would undermine US leadership. Fuck you! This is about our democracy and a corrupt president. All they ever think about is money.

Everybody still in love with the EU?

His followers are desperately trying to find out who the whistleblower is as is Trump. Gee wonder why? Intimidation and retaliation maybe. He is insisting he was spied on he apparently does not know how a whistleblower works.

Christie said publicly that Trump was definitely getting impeached, which means he probably said the same thing privately to Trump. Hence the crazy tweets.

Has someone made a Part 3?

I think it's reverse psychology. Biden sending a letter, making it public calling on the media to stop booking Rudy, will infuriate Trump...and Rudy. And Rudy will be on TV even more. Because this weekend, a lot of pundits were rumbling about "reining Giuliani in" and trying to curb his TV appearances. It seems Biden took that away from them and he's doing it himself. And you know Trump would never do what Biden wants him to do. I love this. It shows some wit and cunning by Biden's people. We need a lot more. We ought to be able to have some fun with this. Listing the names of Trump's accusers is another good idea. Yeah, Donnie! Let people face their accusers.