Within Treason: Stand By Your Man (The Impeachment Inquiry, Part 2) 

Link to previous thread for reference:

From the other thread:

[quote]The first Republican House member has announced support for the impeachment inquiry against President Trump: Representative Mark Amodei of Nevada

At least some of them (for now) are deciding not to stand by him (for now)

Also from last thread:

Trump's calls with Putin and the Saudi royal family have also been designated as restricted access only

*transcripts from those calls

What's this? Miss Lindsey's them song? Oh, OK then.

This legalistic Republican talking point (e.g. La Senatrice's airport preview of her Sunday morning recitals) that the whistleblower's testimony is "just hearsay" is completely contradicted by the White House's memo, which confirms what he said and then some. Will journalists point this out and obviate this nonsense?

Miss Lindsey would look great with a Tammy bouffant

Anyone want to guess the surprising winner of this week?

Thank you OP!

Friday night news dump?? More like the raw sewage flume from hell.

God what is with the Lindsey obsession in these threads?

This girl is on fire

Thanks for the thread OP!

Thanks for the thread OP!

Soon after trump leaves office and we get a little business out of the way he'll check into a nice island retreat for a well deserved rest.

Welcome to Guantonamo, bad dude. Your friends and family are welcome, too.

so the strategy is we race through these threads in just a few days before the site payrolls it. That seems to be most effective

So, basically, what's going to end up bringing this fucker down is concealed White House "tapes"? Hahaha.

Will he still be entitled to the moola and perks for former POTUSes if he's impeached?

Not from prison, R19.

Remember that quote from someone in the intelligence community early in Trump's reign of terror?

"He will die in jail."

Yep.

Good question.

Don’t think it’s happened before R19

But in his words, if someone, like a spy, is removed for Treason, we’ve had ways of dealing with them.

Somehow I doubt giving them a pension and a lifetime of Secret Service security is what he had in mind . . .

Hi OP,

I was the original OP of the first 3-4 Mueller threads before you took over and then carried the torch better than I ever could have. Thank you for continuing this thread series in the face of relentless trollery. I know I am speaking not only for myself when I say that this ongoing discussion gave me hope in very dark times, which was why I started the very first treason/Mueller investigation thread in the first place — to feel some hope.

I agree that it is time to start a new treason series and hope we’ll be celebrating this criminal’s public downfall soon. Thank you to everyone else who has contributed as well!

Love,

The Old OP, looking forward to this brand new thread series

Thanks to both OPs !!!

I hope Fox suffers a huge downfall with Trump but it honestly wouldn't shock me if they were able to wiggle their way out of it and their brain dead viewers just accept it like nothing crazy happened.

Hannity has literally been SCREAMING on his show all week long. It's fucking hilarious to see him desperately flailing. When will he get his comeuppance though? He and the other assholes on his channel (like 90% of the employees there) are responsible for the influencing repub culture the last 20 years that led to the rise of someone like a Trump. Filled with hate, easily accepting of lies and conspiracy theories, refusing to work with the other side...

NRA's Wayne LaPierre calls upon Trump at WH Friday evening.

Easy to figure what the unstated part isn't covered.

[quote]God what is with the Lindsey obsession in these threads?

He loves the attention and limelight. The media adores hlm. He's Trump's biggest advocate and defender in the Senate. He accepted a load of oligarch PAC money. He is vigorouly trying to undercut the House investigation into the Ukraine matter. He is running for re-election.

And let posters have their amusement without your scolding, again, for whatever motivation. Most posts about Graham come with pertinent news.

WW for OP.

[quote]I hope Fox suffers a huge downfall with Trump but it honestly wouldn't shock me if they were able to wiggle their way out of it and their brain dead viewers just accept it like nothing crazy happened.

I read somewhere they are already scheming around the notion that they can be the MAGA channel, without the maggot. It's a valuable asset and revenue stream. There's an aging world of mouth breathers who rely on full day of being frightened about socialists and Democrats and coloured people. They'll figure some way to keep the shit afloat.

Paul Ryan’s getting his revenge by being the Fox board member who selects other board members for Lachlan, Rupert having withdrawn into his dotage.

Giuliani, btw, says “discretion is the better part of valor” (since when for him?) as the reason he abruptly withdrew from attending a conference Putin is attending next week in Armenia. Giuliani would have been the only American there.

Trump will die in jail.

My biggest dream r29.

Ghouliani who just threw Volker under the bus?

[quote]Will he still be entitled to the moola and perks for former POTUSes if he's impeached?

Yes, because impeachment isn't conviction. What you're really asking is whether he retains the perks if he is convicted and removed from office. From an online site:

[quote]The Former Presidents Act, which provides the bulk of benefits extended to Presidents after their terms are over, specifically does not apply to Presidents who have been removed from office. Article One, Clause 7 of the Constitution, which details the possible penalties of impeachment, specifies that officials removed from office by impeachment are subject to “disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States”.

[quote]…Except for Secret Service protection. The Former Presidents Protection Act of 2012 reinstated a lifetime protection mandate that had been reduced to 10 years in 1997, and additionally, it removed language that limited this protection only to Presidents not removed from office. So, the sole benefit that an impeached and convicted President would receive as a former President is Secret Service protection; not the pension, not the stipend for office staff and personal assistants, not the gold-plated health insurance.

This is likely to be a moot point, as there is very little chance that Trump will be removed from office.

R32, you’re obviously not paying attention. There is EVERY chance Trump will be removed from office.

I'm paying very close attention, R33, and I stand by my statement. The votes aren't there in the Senate to convict. Unless something new comes out, and maybe not even then, the Republicans in the Senate will not convict Trump.

Yeah. I'd given up on "this one feels different," but this one actually does. For one thing, he hasn't done something to distract the public's attention, and instead of blowing over in a week, this one has actually gotten worse.

The Connecticut Post calls on Trump to resign:

R34 is ALL OVER the DL crowing about the failure of the WB and Pelosi. He's all over the Shit Hit The Fans threads with his "facts" about how Trump is undefeatable.

Divisive and defeatist troll.

It is different, R35, to the extent that it finally persuaded the fence-sitters in the House to call for impeachment hearings. This is more tangible and more easily understood than some of the other accusations. It doesn't get any more Mafia-like than "We need you to do us a favor."

I think the House will vote to impeach but the votes will not be there in the Senate to convict. Both sides will be outraged and energized in the 2020 election. I also think that Trump will come out of this process damaged but defiant and claiming total vindication. And I think that the odds of a Democratic candidate winning in 2020 slightly increased.

But R33 on another thread wrote, "He’s not going to make it to Thanksgiving let alone Election Day." That's just delusional.

[quote]R34 is ALL OVER the DL crowing about the failure of the WB and Pelosi. He's all over the Shit Hit The Fans threads with his "facts" about how Trump is undefeatable. Divisive and defeatist troll.

R37, lying about my posts is really a genuinely stupid tactic since none of my posts even remotely resemble the fantasies you've concocted and everyone can see that. Get a grip. And a life.

It's also different in that, if early polling is any indication, fence-sitters and casual observers among the electorate are suddenly falling to the side of impeachment. I maintain this isn't just a function of the new report of the Ukrainian phone call; there's a dawning sense that we really could be rid of this guy with all his drama and destructiveness. It's been almost three years without anything but trade wars and lower taxes on the rich coming out of this administration, and even dense people are seeing less of a downside in impeaching him.

R39 = red tagged troll #5712 from Thursday.

You're m.o. reveals itself in your post at 39. Simply changing your IP address doesn't change the idiocy of your posts.

This bitch is BANANAS

I definitely agree with your first sentence, R40; I'm not convinced about the second. Because of the egregiousness and obviousness of the crime, public opinion is definitely shifting. That's why some of us thought that the concern-trollers and hand-wringers on the first impeachment thread insisting that "60% oppose impeachment!!!" were being pretty foolish. Impeachment was definitely the right thing to do in my opinion, both ethically and politically, but I'm also a realist about the ultimate consequences of this action.

R41, lying about my posts is really a genuinely stupid tactic since none of my posts even remotely resemble the fantasies you've concocted and everyone can see that. Get a grip. And a life.

From the last thread:

[quote]Trump will never be a free man because he knows too many secrets and we know he'd sell them as soon as he left office.

I was thinking about this yesterday -- Trump would have no compunction selling our secrets to the highest bidder after he's out of office. I don't think this country would ever put an ex-prez in jail. But how do we stop him from prostituting himself to the Russians, Saudis, etc.?

You posted the same damn thing, verbatim, the other day, R44.

You really aren't the wordsmith/pundit/commentator extraordinaire that your over sized ego thinks you are. You are nothing but a third-rate troll. Face it, you're the Dollar Store of trolls.

R44, you already posted that word-for-word in response to another post. What’s wrong? Did that first post use up all your English?

Public opinion may shift 180 degrees. And McConnell has said that if the House impeaches Trump, the Senate will hold a trial.

But he doesn't have to. This is the same guy who didn't have a vote on Supreme Court nominee Merrick Garland during the last year of Obama's second term, but who said he would have one if, say, RBG dies or quits in the next year during the last year of Trump's first term.

Where is the outrage?

Doesn't matter if this inquiry and possible impeachment negatively affects the 2020 election for Democrats. Doesn't matter. They have a job to do and they must continue.

These are serious allegations and you can't ignore them.

Agree with r49.

R49 is a vital, vital message for the Democrats to get out. It's a simple, decent idea that the middle can get its head around and have the effect of further building support for the impeachment process.

One thing I notice about Dems is they're not very good with framing messages or delivering them. Funnily enough Warren is (or her people are, and I don't support her but would vote for her.) She knows how to boil something down in a way people can grasp. Like that gorgeous line 'I don't know why you'd go to the trouble of running for president just to talk about what you can't do.' Bernie's not bad: I don't care about your damn emails.

Less poetry and high mindedness, more common sense and plain talking. This may be about the soul of the nation, but the nation isn't high minded and poetic these days... so rephrase it as this is about whether a president can break the law when you can't.

The Red Lined Troll got outed!

Page Six:

Sen. Lindsey Graham on Friday gave a commercial flight a private preview of his appearance on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” a source told Page Six, including calling the whistleblower controversy “Kavanaugh on steroids!”

We’re told that the South Carolina pol was on a JetBlue flight from Washington, DC, to Charleston and was chatting loudly with “Jared” — presumably White House adviser Jared Kushner — before takeoff.

Our source related, “He was like, ‘We need to know why Hunter [Biden] was receiving $50K’ ” for being on the board of Ukrainian gas company Burisma. “He then said, ‘You can’t impeach someone on hearsay.’ He was laying out his story for Sunday.”

The Nevada GOP rep coming out for the inquiry has given me a glimmer of hope for a conviction in the Senate. His district went 52-40 for Trump, and he won last year in a walk. If someone like that is sticking his neck out, there's something in the air.

I think perhaps he's a coal mine canary for other Republicans.

I think the Turtle will do everything in his evil power to make sure Trump is not impeached. He does not give a fuck about public opinion. The senate is the firewall. If the Senate convicts, the whole GOP crime syndicate will collapse and be exposed. He knows this. He will be willing to lose a senate seat or two before he lets a conviction happen. He will bribe and blackmail the fuck out of any senators who lean to convict. The most important thing is to expose as much as possible to make sure people see clearly what scum these people are.

On a hopeful note, I think the whistleblower is a group of people. These are the CIA guys who have had enough. Trump has pissed all over them and they are fighting back. It's now an all out war against the Trump regime. Trump knows this. If I'm right, expect more of this to be exposed. Nancy pulled the trigger at the right moment or Nancy got a phone call at 3am from a guy with a burner phone telling her that the time is now.

[quote] —It's really a Clancy novel, isn't it?

lol

Well, we have work to do. Because we can help create enough public pressure on #MoscowMitch to force his hand on Impeachment. If public opinion starts shifting, and other Republican Senate members start pushing him, and we have a whole lot of media attention, all of it negative towards Mitch, we may be able to corner him.

Because the one thing we need to always keep in mind, is that the public opinion shifts and the members of Congress shifting their positions, depends on a lot more information coming out. And it will.

The stink from Trump is going to be so strong no one will want to be in his vicinity. We're reading and hearing reports every day about how many of the people who work for him hate him, and how many Republicans in Congress hate him. This is gaining steam not losing steam. As we expose more on this issue, it will affect everyone involved. Volker already resigned and is willing to testify, and Ipredict more "Whistleblowers will be coming forward.

When the Republican members come home, tell them how you feel. Go to the local Congressional offices and raise some hell.

[quote]R44, you already posted that word-for-word in response to another post. What’s wrong? Did that first post use up all your English?

I didn't see any need to use different language, R47, since both of the posters in question were blatantly lying about my posts here, as a quick look at my posts would demonstrate. It was a stupid, not to mention obvious and pathetic, tactic.

R59 is in a snit because she’s been outed as a division troll. One who has a surprisingly small grasp of vocabulary.

LOL.... Oh, you poor thing, R60. Is that really the best you can do? You haven't "outed" anyone, since my posting history is available for all to see, which is why everyone here can see that you're simply lying.

Back on topic, this from Ken Starr is hilariously hypocritical:

[quote]"To so prematurely jump onto this road and start racing down impeachment road or impeachment alley is, I believe, at this stage, a great disservice to the country," he continued. "Impeachment is about treason. There's no treason here. It's about bribery. There's nothing that, to me, partakes of bribery."

The mind boggles at the delusional nature of those comments, not to mention the complete lack of self-awareness.

[QUOTE] You haven't "outed" anyone, since my posting history is available for all to see, which is why everyone here can see that you're simply lying.

What part of my post was a lie, dear? You were outed as a Red Crossed Out troll by another poster and you already admitted to using the same explanation in the same exact wording.

Is making fun of Ken Starr meant to suddenly endear you to us?

Moron, I'm a paid subscriber, which means that deleting my cookies doesn't do jack shit, which means that the other poster who "outed" me was lying about me. I've never been red-tagged and don't have the foggiest idea who he's talking about.

Again, a look at my posting record would show that the "outing" was full of shit, as are the continued lies about what I've posted on this and other threads. I have no idea why you think that blatantly lying is doing you any good but, hey, you do you.

R59 is a Red-Lined Division Troll.

R63, you forgot to shriek "I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE THE BEGINNING!!!!!!! BLEARRRGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!"

I think we also freak ourselves out by comparing this to Clinton's impeachment.

Compare to Nixon instead. Nixon could have resigned at any time before he did, but he fought until basically the last possible minute when it became crystal clear that he was utterly fucked. It took until just before the full House vote, with a certain outcome, They put together a case that was so overwhelming, conviction of inevitable.

Now, I know you could make the argument that the Republican Senators of the 70s were doing Country Above Party, but I also think we're deluding ourselves that keep their jobs wasn't also part of the calculus. And Moscow Mitch may like his agenda, but he likes having his hand in the cookie jar even more.

And lastly, Nixon was accused, basically, of abusing his office. The only thing he would have been charged with that would have been a crime in a criminal court was Obstruction of Justice. We are way, WAY beyond that with Trump. It's going to come down to messaging. If the Democrats can push a clear, concise message (always a challenge with them) about the enormity of what happened, voters are going to get it. And that's going be BAD. Especially for people like Collins and Pat Toomey. And also for states that are starting to verge on purple like NC and GA.

LOL.... R64, repeating a lie doesn't make it any more true than the first time you've posted it. I see that you're also going after Della now, too. So who is the real "Division Troll" here?

Whatever, R65. Do feel free to come back when you've got something relevant to say.

Susan Collins must be freaking out that her lesbian past will be exposed.

[quote]Susan Collins must be freaking out that her lesbian past will be exposed.

Kavanaugh fucked her. If she doesn't give at least a tepid statement in favor of the inquiry, she's definitely finished. This is also the first election where she's going to have to contend with Maine's ranked voting law as well.

That Republican Representative, Mark Amodei, is really a profile in courage, isn't he? He first came out in support of the impeachment inquiry, which was pretty astonishing, not to mention welcome.

[quote]“Let’s put it through the process and see what happens,” Amodei, the only Republican in the state’s congressional delegation, said on a call Friday with reporters, adding that he believes Congress is justified to look into the matter.

But now he's saying:

[quote]Amodei issued a statement after the call underscoring his support for the process moving forward and dispelling any impression that he currently backs voting to impeach the president.

[quote]“In no way, shape, or form, did I indicate support for impeachment,” Amodei said of the call.

[quote]... Amodei declined to say whether he believes Trump committed an impeachable offense, though he noted that his comments in the call were regrettable.

[quote]“If it was my statement and I had the ability to do it over, I would probably phrase it differently,” he said. “I don’t know that it’s a smoking gun.”

[quote]... Asked about how the situation may affect the 2020 presidential election, Amodei, who expects to be the Trump campaign’s chairman in Nevada, said it depends on how impeachment affects voter sentiment in places where the margin of victory for Trump was close, such as Pennsylvania and Michigan.

[quote]“The president’s challenge in the campaign will be…to get some messaging through on what they’ve accomplished,” Amodei said, …amid an environment of fervent, “no-holds-barred” political “trench warfare between the parties and much of the media and the president.”

All these changes have really shaken me.

Those statements don't seem contradictory to me. I didn't take the original statement to mean he thought Trump should be impeached.

[quote]All these changes have really shaken me.

How are your concerns, Senator?

I think Sargent's take here is correct:

[quote]The key to the big WaPo scoop breaking now isn't just that Trump told Russians that he was unconcerned about them interfering in the election.

[quote]It's also that White House officials manipulated the classification system to bury it:

The interesting thing to me and to quite a few people is: what else is on that server? Trump released the Ukraine call notes. I don't think his administration will be eager to do the same thing for the rest of this. I'm assuming that the Democrats will be subpoenaing those other notes. I suspect the courts will decide the outcome.

I'm disappointed.

R72, the thing that stood out for me is mostly his latter comments, where he's seeing this as a political problem rather than a legal or ethical one. And where he's buying into the frame that this is "political 'trench warefare'." Also note that he's including "much of the media" as being in "warfare" against the president.

[quote]“The president’s challenge in the campaign will be…to get some messaging through on what they’ve accomplished,” Amodei said, …amid an environment of fervent, “no-holds-barred” political “trench warfare between the parties and much of the media and the president.”

But at the same time, he's still saying he's in favor of the process going forward. There's no overt demonizing of the Democrats and no use of "nothingburger."

Even this is more than anyone other than Ben Sasse has said.

Shouldn’t he resign and have Mikey pardon him and the family? Seems like the best way out of this nightmare for everyone. Including the American public.

People shouting, "Division Trolls," are part of the problem they're screeching about.

That’s very “Let’s investigate the investigators” of you, R79.

No, it actually isn't.

[quote]We’re told that the South Carolina pol was on a JetBlue flight from Washington, DC, to Charleston and was chatting loudly with “Jared” — presumably White House adviser Jared Kushner — before takeoff.

Probably it is Jared Kushner. The only other Jared I can think of, is Jared Max. He works for the Fox News Radio Network, but does sports, not politics.

Now, Gregg "Jarrett" is a Fox News personality, and has written two books: "Witch Hunt" and "The Russian Hoax", very pro-Trump propaganda He also wrote a book per Obama, "The Worst President in History". Jarrett is a fervent Trumpster, and is quite nasty with his deflections and spin. Believe he certainly tickles Lindsey's fancy.

Evil, the lot.

All their kids and grandkids hate them.

All Of Them Trumpsters.

Y'all are wrong. The "Jared" I was talking to is "Supernatural" hunk Jared Padalecki! He's mah new gentleman caller.

Imagine being the descendant of 1 of these repub congressmen/women or Trump staffers. Sure most of their kids/grandchildren who are alive now might be on their side but in the future likely not

then again I wonder...in 20 years what will happen with children of repubs in school who are being taught about Trump? Will their repub parents tell at them home to ignore the history books and "biased liberal teachers"?

R53 r82

[quote]He was literally yelling this s - - t.

Potty mouth Lindsey again.

a reminder that the trolls are all over Datalounge today trying to push this story to the back burner. Please block their threads about trans barbie, greta Thunberg, vegans, jussie smollett and the usual Nancy Pelosi hatred.

Graham encounters protests in South Carolina.

R87, someone needs to wash her mouth out with soap!

R87. It is getting notice.

See comments.

[quote]You have a lot to say, yet, you have no substance.

But those cuss words makes you sound super serious

Llndsey is getting bigtime blowback on Twitter.

I have heard rumblings that Trump is putting out feelers on family immunity for resignation.

This fucker must swing.

Guys like McConnell or La Senatrix just declare themselves victims of a Liberal Nazi mob. You can't shame these assholes. They are whores for the 1% who don't give a fuck about decency or the US and all of its citizens.

Where are you hearing these rumblings, R92?

The inquiry process is a huge threat to Mitch and other Republican politicians who are comprised and potentially on the secret tapes. And they aren’t immune to criminal prosecution. They will be pushing (behind the scenes) Trump to resign.

I think Amodei is a warning to him.

r94, it was in an article on twitter that I cannot relocate. The thought that Trump thinks he can negotiate, him, his family and his evil cabal into an immunity deal is what struck me as being out of touch.

Thinking that someone would resign if given the proper exit strategy simply amplified the fact of guilt by all concerned.

Who would negotiate such a thing?

Nope, stick around to see Republicans vote to remove him...oh, that Nancy.

If you made that up, r92, I don't care.

Guaranteed a leaker has a Zip drive of every fucking call in that database. The Administration has probably deleted the whole server.

Surely at this point every set of fingerprints on this mess is contemplating his or her own exit/legal strategy?

I'm sorry, but Trump resigning but getting away with all that he has done is just not good enough. He needs to PAY for the criminal acts that he has perpetrated while he was in the Oval Office, he cannot just resign and have that all erased.

I want BLOOD.

I hope Ivanka gets roped in too.

Resignation is best case scenario. It's the least damaging to the country, surely?

I'm quite confident we'll still have a thread entitled, "Treason of the Witch!"

Good article from GQ on Barr turning the DoJ into a cover-up operation.

Resignation leaves mango Mussolini open to criminal prosecution at the State and federal levels and there is no Pardon for state crimes so it doesn’t mean he walks free. But I don’t think a non-impeachment prosecution would involve access to the super secret server, so the Kentucky Komrade might be OK with that.

Personally I see resignation followed by a flight to Russia followed by being trotted out by Putin like what is done with Snowden.

Thank goodness for Pence’s trip to Ukraine though which allows the impeachment inquiry to continue.

Back when Barr was AG in the early 90s, NYT columnist William Safire dubbed Barr the "Cover-up General." Safire was a Republican who previously worked as a speechwriter for Nixon and Agnew, so he knew what he was talking about.

The idea of Trump making an immunity deal for his family makes no sense. Immunity from what? Blanket immunity from any and all possible charges, federal and state? Who would grant it?

Immunity from being whacked by handlers, for whom he has become a liability, I imagine.

Yeah I agree I would NOT be happy if Trump were able to cut a resignation for federal immunity deal. I just hope that NY AG Letitia James can put that piece of shit and his family in state prison even if just for a few years.

Ideally, Trump, Don Jr, Jared, Ivanka, Eric, Barr, Giuliani, Flynn, Stone and others I've forgotten will go to jail. Cohen and Mannafort aren't enough

Re R104... again, I can't get my head around it. I accept people can have wildly divergent political views but to get into DOJ to do this shit... what is wrong that guy?

I’m all for Trump resigning, provided the State of New York swoops down and prosecutes him.

It really wouldn't be fair if Barr gets away with all this totally unscathed. His tarnished reputation is not enough. Isn't it a crime to engage in cover up? He's abusing his own power.

***THIS IS WHAT IS CIRCULATING ON MAGA FACEBOOK***

LET THEM GO AHEAD AND IMPEACH TRUMP.... HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS THEN...... By: Hyram F. Suddfluffel, PhD, (Political Science) I have a degree in Political Science, and I am a card-carrying Libertarian. I've been studying politics and political history for the past 30 years. My specialty is U.S. Presidents. That said, I hope that the House of Representatives impeaches Trump. Let me tell you what will happen next! 1. The House can pass articles of impeachment over the objections of the Republicans, and refer to the Senate for trial. 2. The Senate will conduct a trial. There will be a vote, and the Republicans will vote unanimously, along with a small number of Democrats, to not convict the President. Legally, it will all be over at that point. 3. However, during the trial, and this is what no one is thinking about right now, the President's attorneys will have the right to subpoena and question ANYONE THEY WANT.. That is different than the special counsel investigation, which was very one-sided. So, during the impeachment trial, we will be hearing testimony from James Comey, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Bruce Ohr, Glenn Simpson, Donna Brazile, Eric Holder, Loretta Lynch, Christopher Steele, Hillary Clinton, John Brennan, James Clapper, and a whole host of other participants in this whole sordid affair and the ensuing cover up activities. A lot of dirt will be dug up; a lot of truth will be unveiled. Finger pointing will occur. Deals will start being made, and suddenly, a lot of democrats will start being charged and going to prison. All this, because, remember, the President's team will now, for the first time, have the RIGHT to question all of these people under oath – and they will turn on each other. That is already starting. 4. Lastly, one more thing will happen, the Senate will not convict the President. Nothing will happen to Trump. Most Americans are clueless about political processes, the law, and the Constitution. Most Americans believe that being impeached results in removal from office. They don't understand that phase 2 is a trial in and by the Senate, where he has zero chance of conviction. Remember, the Senate is controlled by Republicans; they will determine what testimony is allowed -- and **everything** will be allowed, including: DNC collusion with the Clinton campaign to fix the election in favor of Hillary, the creation of the Trump dossier, the cover up and destruction of emails that very likely included incriminating information. They will incriminate each other for lying to the FISA court, for spying and wiretapping the Trump campaign, and for colluding with foreign political actors, especially George Soros. After the Senate declines to convict the President, we will have an election, and Trump will win. It will be a backlash against democrat petulance, temper tantrums, hypocrisy and dishonesty. Even minorities will vote for Trump, because, for the first time, they will see that democrats have spent 2+ years focused on maintaining their own power, and not doing anything at all about black murders in Chicago, homelessness, opioids, and other important issues that are actually killing people. And, we will spend the following four years listening to politicians and pundits claim that the whole impeachment was rigged. So let's move on to impeachment. Hyram F. Suddfluffel, PhD

***THIS IS WHAT IS CIRCULATING ON MAGA FACEBOOK***

Hyram F. Suddluffel, PhD's thirty years of of studying politics and political history don't really seem to have paid off.

Oh Hyram, gurl.

Hyram Suddluffel.....talk about a name with marquee appeal!

I wonder if Jared Kushner realizes he did Chris Christie the greatest favor of Christie's life by blocking him from joining the Trump administration.

r113....he makes Giuliani seem like a legal scholar.

My favorite part of the message from “Dr. Suddluffel” is when he claims to be a “card-carrying Libertarian.” Even sockpuppets are embarrassed to identify themselves as Republicans.

Either Jared or Ivanka should be renditioned to some black hole and told explicitly what will happen to ALL of them if they don't provide the names and the methods of the entire network of corruption both national and international. they have to give up all the bank accounts and other assets, etc.In exchange, they're offered pardons. BUT, since accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, all their assets will be seized. They will be stripped of everything. Including what they have in foreign countries.

The GOP has their Deep State network that takes care of threats. They played us and Mueller like chumps. Why do you think Mueller never nailed Trump, or his family, for perjury by having him interview him for the investigation? Trump and his family was off limit from the start. The GOP never intended the investigation to present details of their wrongdoings. Are we still waiting for all the Intel, the shared in exchange for leniency, of Comey, Manafort, and Cohen to bear fruit? The GOP has powerful allies in the FBI and the CIA who squash down anything that could get too close to the GOP. Of course the CIA whistleblower is partisan! Bad Democrats!

I want this to be what Ivanka has to look forward to.....

Hyram F. Suddfluffel, Ph.D., appears to be fake.

Scroll down below the dark section on the link.

R123 LOL but the MAGAs are eating it up.

Washington Post:

Amateur pro-Trump ‘sleuths’ scramble to unmask whistleblower: ‘Your president has asked for your help’

Reading the whole first half of "Hiram's" essay was getting me excited. I hope he's right about all those people testifying in public. It's the second half that's bat-shit crazy! I'm glad he put it out there, (or whoever).

Excuse me if this has been posted on here recently. I came across this on youtube today. It seems so appropriate, since we are discussing Trump's base affecting the elections of others republicans. (And the fear they have of angering them). Lots of layers to this interview.

The MAGATs don't care that the economist/historian is made up and it is all bullshit, it just FEELS right, so it is.

[quote]The thing I'm getting more and more pissed about is: If a simple nobody like me suspected this and came up with this theory, why didn't Hillary or Obama or anyone of these people we've been counting on? Why did Hillary fold so easily?

And there you have it: the "I'm a Liberal Dem who voted for Obama twice, but Hillary..." Troll.

Douchebag Mulvaney is on thin ice with Dump because he didn’t have a plan in place to immediately deal with the fallout of the "transcript" and WB letter.

What a week.

Will this finally be the issue that brings Pres Bone Spurs down? What else will be found out? Who will be ensnared? The best and worst drama on TV.

[quote]Will this finally be the issue that brings Pres Bone Spurs down? What else will be found out? Who will be ensnared?

You're supposed to tell us, FCI.

He has ZERO clue, R132.

R132 If I get good info, I will like I did about impeachment. When my friend said she was 99% certain it was happening the next day, I haven't felt a feeling like that in awhile. There are a lot of rumors. My friend has a really good source. When she gets confirmation from him, she knows it is legit. Only issue is he is very wary of sharing his info.

The Nutcase’s latest nickname is Liddle’ Adam Schiff and the apostrophe after Liddle is apparently very important because CNN left it out and Trump called them out for it on Twitter:

[quote]To show you how dishonest the LameStream Media is, I used the word Liddle’, not Liddle, in discribing Corrupt Congressman Liddle’ Adam Schiff. Low ratings @CNN purposely took the hyphen out and said I spelled the word little wrong. A small but never ending situation with CNN!

Does anyone have ANY idea what the fuck Liddle’ is supposed to mean? (not even gonna mention the word “discribing” in the above tweet)

It's a cutesie spelling of "little," perhaps an error for "Li'l" as in "Li'l Abner." A google search suggests that Adam Schiff is nearly six feet tall, but maybe T-Rump means little in spirit or some such metaphorical use.

Did I miss where we ratified the amendment making the age someone can be President to age 8?

Ucch, you don't want to know about that liddle shit. Suffice to say it's a full blown Qanon conspiracy theory about pedophiles in DC and somehow Liddle is a signal or something

CNN's Wolf Blitzer came into work a Saturday evening.

He's going cray over the APOSTROPHE

[quote] I used the word Liddle’, not Liddle,

R138 You know if they accuse others of something.........

r138, Are you saying that Trump is using Q-Anon code words on his twitter now? What more will it take for this country to see that this man MUST be removed from office?

Oh and I missed this part: he called it a “hyphen” instead of a fucking APOSTROPHE:

[quote]To show you how dishonest the LameStream Media is, I used the word Liddle’, not Liddle, in discribing Corrupt Congressman Liddle’ Adam Schiff. Low ratings @CNN purposely took the hyphen out and said I spelled the word little wrong. A small but never ending situation with CNN!

Michael Avenatti weighs in on the “Liddle’” tweet:

[quote]Replying to @realDonaldTrump @CNN Dude - a “hyphen” is the least of your problems. And btw, it’s called an apostrophe.

[quote] They have a job to do and they must continue

No they don’t. The House is not [italic]obligated[/italic] to impeach a president even if wrongdoing is alleged or even evident. The House has the power, not the obligation.

This is why impeachment is seen as a political act from a constitutional perspective. And it’s clearly seen the same by the public. The only time the public favors impeachment is when a) the president has clearly broken the law and b) his approval ratings are in the toilet.

Nixon is a good example. After the Saturday night massacre his approval ratings were down to about 24%. And the burglaries and more importantly the coverup were clearly federal crimes.

Trumps approval ratings remain at about what Obama’s were at the same time in his first term. And what Trump has done (and let’s admit, it’s obvious he did it) is definitely an abuse of public office, but what *specific* crime is involved? I can’t think of one.

I remain very concerned that this is being pushed by people who don’t understand what impeachment is, or who think magic pixies will wave wands all over America if Trump is impeached but not convicted — then “everyone will hate him and no one will vote for him in 2020!!!” Um, no. Not even close.

Michel Avenatti is the last damn person who should be tweeting about other people's problems.

[quote]Ucch, you don't want to know about that liddle shit. Suffice to say it's a full blown Qanon conspiracy theory about pedophiles in DC and somehow Liddle is a signal or something

PLEASE tell me you’re kidding.

WaPo: State Department intensifies email probe of Hillary Clinton's former aides

[quote]CNN's Wolf Blitzer came into work a Saturday evening.

He reports OK usually, but there's only so much of that voice and face one can take for a week.

Liddle something

I have the same reaction to him, r149, and, to mix my metaphors, he ain't the sharpest bowling ball on the rack, too.

WOULD LOVE LOVE LOVE if one day when the senate is together, if one democrat during a speech asks out loud "show of hands of all the republicans in the room who have taken money from russia!" BOOM! BAM!...

Trending.....

[quote]Trump and Graham teed it up again on Saturday at the president’s Virginia club, along with Hall of Fame golfers Gary Player and Annika Sorenstam.

Did Miss Thang get a treat for being so loyal?

R153 Trending where? Only thing trending on Twitter is fucking college football, like every other Saturday.

[quote]I remain very concerned that this is being pushed by people who don’t understand what impeachment is

Uh-huh. You said so before. Repeatedly, despite all of the evidence that we do, in fact, understand what impeachment is.

[quote]or who think magic pixies will wave wands all over America if Trump is impeached but not convicted — then “everyone will hate him and no one will vote for him in 2020!!!” Um, no. Not even close.

Since nobody said that, forgive me if I don't take your statement too seriously, particularly since you insisted that the public opinion on impeachment wasn't going to budge on the basis of the latest revelations, something that you've already been proven wrong on.

You have absolutely no basis at all for you "concern" and no data to support it.

The people pushing for impeachment know exactly what it is and what it does. And no, an actual crime doesn’t have to have been committed. If we throw up our hands and say “Oh, let’s just vote him out,” you’re normalizing this behavior. Future presidents will consider this kind of behavior an option and foreign countries will consider the US “open for business” as far as this kind of thing is concerned.

The US political system is on life support and we’re quickly approaching the point where it will be too late to bring it back.

Another link to:

State Dept. intensifies email probe of Hillary Clinton’s former aides

Hyram F. Suddfluffel, PhD?

Harrumph!

AP:

Trump blurs lines between personal lawyer, attorney general

Vox:

A new Senate report is the latest threat to NRA’s tax-exempt status — and maybe its survival

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more comment about Trump's meeting on Friday with Wayne LaPierre, with Trump apparently giving up any pretense of supporting gun safety measures in exchange for the NRA paying his impeachment legal fees. That's not just illegal, it's baffling: hasn't this bastard stolen enough from us to cover his legal expenses?

Oh, come now. Why would he start paying his own bills now?

[quote] That's not just illegal, it's baffling: hasn't this bastard stolen enough from us to cover his legal expenses?

And r162, I echo another poster who wondered if Trump is paying "personal" attorney Giuiliani with taxpayer dough-ray-mee.

Does anybody doubt that? Trump is looting the US Treasury for his own personal gain as it is.

R100 is my kinda man!

Heads on pikes is what I'm talking about!

Julia Ioffe's article from last year is worth revisiting..... now that we know what happened in the Oval Office with the Russian Ambassador...

Trump knew that Putin had helped him, which is why Trump helped Putin. That was the quid pro quo.

Stormy wins.

[quote]While Republican Sen. Susan Collins says the summary of a phone call President Trump made to Ukraine's leader ‘raises some key questions,’ Democratic Rep. Chellie Pingree says it provides ‘indisputable evidence’ the president abused his office.

Trump is in deeper trouble now. Susan Collins said it 'raises some key questions'. Next it will be on the he level of 'concern'.

Kellyanne Conway interviews with Fox's Martha MacCallum.

She hasn't changed. They are testing talking points on Fox first.

You should have put a NSFW warning on that pic....

Kellyanne looks like she’s had some work done. She’s only mildly gruesome instead of utterly gruesome. Her soul, however, is rotted through.

The difference between the Bidens and Trump is they are not the POTUS? Who gives a flying fuck how much Hunter made? He didn't violate the Constitution.

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear...

if Pompeo really is investigating Hillary's emails that should get him in trouble too.

Trump must have utter contempt for lindsey.

[quote] R34: The votes aren't there in the Senate to convict. Unless something new comes out, and maybe not even then, the Republicans in the Senate will not convict Trump.

I expect that something significant does comes from their investigation. Why wouldn’t there?

But the biggest charge may be from the whistleblower: extorting a foreign leader to find or invent evidence against a political opponent, using tax payer dollars intended to pay for American-made weapons. - That is almost as bad as it could get. And he apparently did it eight times in that one phone call.

So, who knows what else the House will find?

^Oops, plus, Trump will probably act more and more crazy as the investigation continues. That will have weight, too.

R45: But how do we stop him from prostituting himself to the Russians, Saudis, etc.?

There are charges just waiting for him to lose the protection of the Presidency. Then he stays in solitary until trial, due to being a flight risk. It will be hard to convict him since a single stupid Deplorable in a jury might block it. But if convicted, it’s off the the Colorado Supermax, since he can’t be kept around others for his safety, and to secure any secrets he might know.

Guys like Trump show utter contempt for everybody around them for being weak (which also includes being easy to manipulate or a spineless ass kisser), standing in their way, being below their station / social standing, perceived as threat to their fragile ego, etc.

I have no doubt we'll get some more bombshells this week

plus people are going to be testifying

If they are investigating Hillary again, we get to also open up investigations of W and Cheney.

r179, but ... but ... that would be a total waste of resources! Resources that can be used to prove that Hillary eats pizzas that have babies as topping!

I wish there would be an investigation into Jared and Ivanka. Maybe there's an intelligence one but there should be oversight. They're senior presidential advisers!

and is anyone surprised that no random younger woman has been caught coming from or going to 1 of Trump's properties or even the White House? This is a man who cheated numerous times on all 3 wives...obviously he and Melania ain't fucking now and he has too much ego to be celibate. I don't know if it could be kept secret. Just weird. He'd be the type who'd love for the press to speculate if he was having an affair anyway

[quote]The former White House chief of staff, John Kelly, used to mute the line during President Donald Trump's calls with world leaders to tell him not to continue discussing sensitive information, The Wall Street Journal reported Saturday, citing a person with knowledge of the matter.

People need to stop believing anything Trump says. When he demands that Hillary’s emails be investigated, he should be told to write-up the allegation with supporting evidence. Then, when there is no evidence, since there never is, the complaint gets the circular file.

Now, shouldn’t his add to the grounds for impeachment? Using his position to harass people he doesn’t like, thru the Justice Division? Would this be abuse of power, or something else?

The Senate will use their "investigation" to convict Trump (after the House impeached Trump) to give the right wing media its talking points and "findings" to muddle the waters and make Trump look less guilty or even innocent. That is the ONLY reason McConnell will start proceedings to convict in the Senate.

McConnell does not have a choice whether to hold the trial and is on a timeline once impeachment takes place. Where are some of you getting the idea that McConnell has a say in this?

r186, McConnell does have the power to stall in the Senate.

Some people here seem not to be aware that Trump admitted to a CRIME. This is from the judicial code: He’s admitted to a very serious crime. Specifically C 2 below:

“(a) Prohibition It shall be unlawful for-

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

Americans need to be educated to realize that this IS a crime, and one he admitted to. (It's not necessary to have quid pro quo - look at the wording - "a person to SOLICIT") Just because he thinks it's just "perfect" doesn't mean it's not criminal. Also, obstruction of justice is a CRIME, and Mueller laid out 11 instances of Trump doing so, along with documentation of each and every instance in his report . CRIME CRIME CRIME

r188,

Trump himself boasted that he could get away with committing a crime.

Am I correct that in a Senate trial, McConnell is just another Senator and that the Chief Justice runs the trial?

Yes, that is correct.

But isn't McConnel the one who has to officially introduce and open the trial in the Senate?

the repubs/deplorables argue that getting dirt on an opponent is not a tangible thing of value such as money. It's weak but that's what their claim is

The Republicans are saying, in the information age and deeply drilled data analytics, that information that may move poll numbers, is not a tangible thing?

Funny, how easily it is converted into money.

The monetization of information is what our economy is based on.

Polls say what their creators want / are paid to say.

I am sure Trump has a better approval rating with white racists than black Liberal Barack Obama. That doesn't make it true that Trump is a better, and more popular, POTUS than Obama.

If the Republican donor class wants Trump out, McConnell will do as they wish. He might even fast-track it, if that's possible.

R196 Trump and the RNC have already raised $105 million for his re-election which is 14 months away. He raised $13 million in the two days since Pelosi announce the impeachment investigation. This is in addition to the countless millions to be raised and spent using dark money groups for his re-election.

What makes you think the Republican donor class - who have never had a candidate so responsive to their wants (not needs) - wants Trump out?

[quote]He raised $13 million in the two days since Pelosi announce the impeachment investigation

So Eric says.

Most of the rich will presumably stick with Trump until such time as poll numbers suggest the Democrats are getting ahead in the 2020 elections.

[quote]he repubs/deplorables argue that getting dirt on an opponent is not a tangible thing of value such as money.

It is a huge amount of money if it helps you get re-elected and brings millions dollars in (illegal) emoluments. But we know that Cheeto is not really interested in watching closely the legality of his acts.

R197, the Republican donor class is afraid of Elizabeth Warren. The Republicans have been comforting themselves that Americans would never vote for a "socialist," but as Biden falters, Warren could take the nomination. Months ago everyone was talking about how Trump needed to keep his voters and add to them by 10%. Instead of adding, he's been losing the white women suburban voters. The polls all show him losing to Biden and he's been also losing or tied with Warren.... which means a Warren presidency is now a creditable risk.

For the donor class, it's safer to dump Trump now, deal with the fall-out among the Trump supporters, and then in 2020, bring them back into the fold with the motivation to pay back the Dems for kicking Trump out. With a President Pence.... or President Romney or President Kasich or President Christie or President Haley... they can get a normal, reassuringly sane Republican government. A Republican government that won't be blowing case after case in the courts because of ineptitude. So all of that money donated to the RNC won't be wasted... it will just move to the ultimate candidate.

I think the fact that this is moving so swiftly sends the message the Republican donor class is ready to move on. McConnell supported release of the transcript... Pence supposedly didn't want it released... Clash of the Republicans. McConnell is going to stick with the side he expects to win... and apparently that's not Team Trump/Pence.

[quote]If the Republican donor class wants Trump out, McConnell will do as they wish. He might even fast-track it, if that's possible.

Not while 90+% of the base opposes it. There are no signs as yet that Republicans are wavering on this, McConnell least of all.

[quote]McConnell does not have a choice whether to hold the trial.

That's actually not true. The Constitution doesn't require that the Senate hold a trial and McConnell could, in theory, decline to move forward. This is a moot point, though, since McConnell has already said that he would move the impeachment inquiry to a trial if the House sends him the articles of impeachment.

[quote]The Senate will use their "investigation" to convict Trump

a) The Senate doesn't conduct impeachment investigations. They conduct the trial to rule on the House's investigation, examining the evidence that the House provides.

b) Right now, anyway, there appears to be zero chance that any Senate Republicans will vote to convict Trump.

Lets think about the theoretical schedule for the moment. Over the next two weeks, several witnesses are scheduled to testify before Congress, and one can assume that none of this testimony will be helpful to Trump. Trump will be lashing out and undoubtedly dragging more of his administration into the crucible, making things worse. Some pundit on TV said that Nancy already has enough votes to impeach. If Nancy waits too long, she runs smack into the holidays which will distract the American people - (and the longer it drags out, the more it hurts Biden) - so it's possible she might hold the impeachment vote the third week in October. The House will vote to impeach on the Ukraine issue (the other investigations will continue quietly in the background, but with all of the court fights over documents and testimony, they aren't going to be ready until some time next year.) So by the end of October, Trump is theoretically impeached and now the ball falls into McConnell's lap.

If McConnell is on Team Trump, he stalls the trial until right before Xmas. The American people are distracted, enough time has gone by that Trump's people have muddied the waters by going after the motives of everyone who testified against him, the Senate votes that Trump is not guilty, and the country is distracted by the holidays.

If McConnell is on team Republican donor class, he fast-tracks the trial for mid-November, giving solemn speeches about how this impeachment is dividing the country, and for the good of all, it needs to be over soon, one way or the other. Trump's lawyers will argue that it's too soon and they need more time to gather evidence... but the evidence has already been laid out in the House, so McConnell can stand his ground. Now Trump is facing a trial in the Senate - and he no doubt thinks he can talk his way out of things. Everyone else knows that Trump's testimony will be a disaster. Trump's only defense is that there was no technical quid-pro-quo, but a skilled prosecutor will make mincemeat out of that. Before the trial, Trump will have practice sessions with someone playing the role of Prosecutor, and it will be impressed upon him how terrible things could go. I think Trump will resign rather than lose in public, or if he doesn't resign, he will refuse to testify.

I know that the conventional thinking is that no Republican Senators will vote that Trump is guilty, but if he refuses to testify, and if the Republican Senators have their marching orders from the donor class, they will vote to impeach as a solid group (there's safety in numbers). By the end of November, Trump is out and President Pence is sworn in. The Senators will tell their angry constituents that they had no choice once Trump refused to testify.... and it's all the Dems fault, anyways. Behind the scenes, the donor class will tell the Senators that they will help to fight off any primary challenges.

In our theoretical construct, the Republican donors publicly rally around President Pence, while forcing him to choose a safe candidate for VP - someone who can't be tied to the Ukraine investigation. The House will undoubtedly open investigations into Pence on the Ukraine and Manafort... so if Pence falls, the VP will be ready to step up and carry the flag. A moderate vs. Biden - the race is too close to call. A moderate vs. Warren, hammering her on how many millions will lose their private health insurance under her plan and how much it will cost - moderate wins. Unless it turns out that the moderate wore black-face back in college or has a secret history of harassing women, in which case Warren wins.

[quote]the repubs/deplorables argue that getting dirt on an opponent is not a tangible thing of value such as money. It's weak but that's what their claim is

"donation of money or other thing of value"

It doesn't say tangible. You can look at it from two angles: is it valuable to the campaign, and does it have a cost. -- Anyone knows oppo research is valuable, otherwise nobody would be doing it because it costs campaign money.

The other Rethug "argument" is that it's hard to monetize oppo research. Again bogus because the Ukrainians were essentially asked to spend their $$$ and manhours to investigate the Bidens in return for the $400 mil.

[quote]President Pence .... forcing him to choose a safe candidate for VP - someone who can't be tied to the Ukraine investigation. The House will undoubtedly open investigations into Pence on the Ukraine and Manafort... so if Pence falls, the VP will be ready to step up and carry the flag.

Except that new VP has to be approved by the Senate AND the House. He/she will probably fly through in the Senate. But I doubt the Dems in the House will be so quick to approve a VP that would make a reasonable candidate for the Repubs in 2020. Plus, if there is no VP in place should Pence be forced out, Pelosi is next in line to assume the presidency. The Dems aren't going to cut off that option to help the Repubs put someone acceptable in place.

[quote]I know that the conventional thinking is that no Republican Senators will vote that Trump is guilty

That's probably because no Republican Senator will vote that way, given the information we have now.

[quote]but if he refuses to testify, and if the Republican Senators have their marching orders from the donor class

What part of "Not while 90+% of the base opposes it. There are no signs as yet that Republicans are wavering on this, McConnell least of all." are you having trouble understanding?

NBC News reached out to seven former colleagues of Giuliani's. Of the six who offered comments on or off the record, none defended him.

Harris and the other former Justice Department lawyers said they believe Giuliani has potentially exposed himself to a range of offenses — from breaking federal election laws to bribery to extortion — through his efforts to assist the Ukrainians in probing Biden, Trump’s top political opponent.

"This is certainly not the Giuliani that I know," said Jeffrey Harris, who worked as Giuliani’s top assistant when he was at the Justice Department in the President Ronald Reagan administration. "I think the Giuliani that I know would prosecute the Giuliani of today."

Now all but 10 Democrats support impeachment proceedings.

Laurence Tribe, an authentic constitutional scholar.

Holy Crap. Did you see Giuiliani on "This Week"?

Giuiliani has adult children. I think they should be considering a 3-party mental health petition for his commitment.

If Trump goes down, he will blame others, and take down as many as he can with him, including Mike Pence in particular. He is only loyal himself and a few family members.

Hans Nichols is so cute. ❤️

Lindsey on CBS having a hissy fit.

In thinking about the influence on Mitch and other Republicans' decisions of the Republican base , 90% of whom (or thereabouts) are fervid Trump supporters, let's remember that only a little over a quarter of the voters identify as Republican. There are way fewer fervid supporters of Trump among unaffiliated voters, who make up about 40% of voters, and Republican officials have to be bearing their responses in mind.

[quote]Lindsey on CBS having a hissy fit.

Uncle Peter is just off camera with her smelling salts.

[quote]In thinking about the influence on Mitch and other Republicans' decisions of the Republican base , 90% of whom (or thereabouts) are fervid Trump supporters, let's remember that only a little over a quarter of the voters identify as Republican. There are way fewer fervid supporters of Trump among unaffiliated voters, who make up about 40% of voters, and Republican officials have to be bearing their responses in mind.

The more immediate concern would be getting primaried.

Exactly right, R215. The majority of House Republicans are in safe districts; the majority of Senate Republicans are in safe states. R213 is thinking nationally rather than district by district; state by state.

The base looms large for Congressional Republicans. Until that 90% figure drops, they will not be sticking their necks out.

Here's my question. Where have all these deplorables been since the 80's when Trump's very public corruption and criminality started? Everyone else has know, why not them? Do they live in a vacuum?

Yyes, R217.

To answer your question: They watched him on the Apprentice, R217, and then on Fox News peddling the birther conspiracy.

Margaret Brennan was not intimidated by Lindsey's outburst and antics. She kept control of the interview, but let him talk while getting her questions delivered straightforwardly.

On "This Week", Chris Christie seems to be proposing for himself a job in the WH to "find out all the facts" for Trump, "before Congress does."

Deplorables are blinded by hate and fear. As long they see that Trump makes their so called enemies suffer they are fine with him and his actions. When Trump's politics hurt them they just go "Thanks, Obama!". That's their defense mechanism to keep their mental image of Trump clean.

Lindzey played golf again with Trump yesterday. Brennan brought that up.

Was the Putin whisperer lingering in the bushes?

That, and "Fake News", of course.

Lindsey was just being a little birch on Face The Nation. Why does no one have any video of him taking BBC? We all know it has to exist!

Isn't oppo research a thing of value? Don't candidates pay big $$ for it? If it doesn't have value why hold off $400M in military aid?

Every single social media comment about La Senatrix should have this clip attached to it.

Yeah, R225.

But let's step back and realize that it's not even oppo research that Trump was asking for.

He didn't just send Rudy to Ukraine to "research". He sent him to ask/ extort a foreign government to initiate a wide investigation into the Bidens, Hillary's emails, and DNC via their IT security contractor Crowdstrike. And he doubled down on that by telling UKR guy this is a favor he wants from him. Not research - investigations and possibly convictions.

I wait in exquisite anticipation for the day Miss Lindz, extreme turncoat, now speaking from inside Trump's colon, gets her comeuppance. I want to know exactly what

Every last Trump era comeuppance will be sweet, but Lindz's will be the cherry after his baffling and dramatic turn around, and unyielding support after a golf game indicates something more spectacular than the obvious closeting in plain sight.

"Fuck 'em!" -

Unbleeped Robert Deniro just now on CNN when told that Fox viewers will come after him for his remarks about Trump.

I don't think Christie was recommending himself - that would interfere with his lucrative side gigs. But every time a politician gets into trouble, he recommends an internal investigation so that the person at the top knows ahead of time what's going to come out. Christie doesn't think that Trump knew about the server, because Trump doesn't go into that level of detail. So his recommendation is that Trump find out and fire that person. The funny thing is - I'll bet Jared Kushner was knee-deep in that decision.

[quote]Where have all these deplorables been since the 80's when Trump's very public corruption and criminality started? Everyone else has know, why not them? Do they live in a vacuum?

Deplorables believe everyone in Washington is corrupt and that they have personally borne the brunt of that corruption for decades. They think they now have someone who will stand up for them against "the swamp." Trump keeps them distracted (and entertained) by savaging his opponents on Twitter and in rallies, and they're not smart enough to see that he's shafting them most of all.

[quote] I don't think Christie was recommending himself - that would interfere with his lucrative side gigs

Yeah, you're probably right about that, r230.

I know he's hated but I have a wary respect for Christie. He's very, very smart and I enjoy the back and forth between him ad Rahm Emanuel. It looks like they have personal liking for each other, too.

I'd LOVE to eavesdrop on the two of them in a private conversation with each other dishing what they can't say while on camera, but know from their own sources.

[quote]Christie doesn't think that Trump knew about the server, because Trump doesn't go into that level of detail.

He knew enough to order the confiscation and burial of the interpreter's notes from his meeting with Putin.

Also, wasn't the reporting that this server business started when Trump got paranoid about leaks, after the embarassment of phonecalls with the Australian and some other government?

Agree r231, bread and circuses have a long history.

Elected Republicans certainly have to think of their base if they don't want to be primaried, and to keep the turnout up in solid red districts, but if they don't think of the political center they know they risk losing the presidency (which they won by those mere 77k votes spread across three states in 2016) and the Senate (where they're vulnerable in CO, ME, AZ, maybe NC, maybe even KY—fingers crossed!). They've been straddling this fence for a while now and survived, but it could fall apart if the political climate is bad enough for them in 2020, which they know it could be.

I think Christie and Rahm respect each other, even if they disagree on politics. When they talk about what each party should be doing, they both usually show common sense.

But today, I think Christie's advice to the Democrats was all wrong about going slow. The fast pace of this impeachment is knocking all the Republicans off base without time to recover. Every day there's a new revelation, and their talking points just can't keep up.

[quote]But today, I think Christie's advice to the Democrats was all wrong about going slow.

Of course -- Christie wants to derail the impeachment.

Agreed, r236. I think the Dems should proceed thoroughly and quickly because of your point AND because of the 2020 elections.

[quote](where they're vulnerable in CO, ME, AZ, maybe NC, maybe even KY—fingers crossed!)

Depending on how this turns out, I might even add one or both of the Georgia seats. If Pt Roberts wasn't retiring, I might even add Kansas to that list.

If Beto or Castro would give up their unrealistic quests for the presidency, you could maybe even add Texas.

Rushing things means more room for mistakes. Remember how the right wing media dismissed the Steele Dossier because of typos? That's the kind of stuff Trump and his associate hope for to dismiss new allegations against Trump. Of course Trump and the right wing media is only preaching to the choir, but the Liberal Media is like "Oh, we must be better than that and make this right!".

[quote]If Beto or Castro would give up their unrealistic quests for the presidency, you could maybe even add Texas.

I'd think Beto would be toast in TX after the guns statement.

He must be hoping to stick around at least until Super Tuesday. It'd be interesting to see what happens in the TX primary.

So now these threads are proclaiming Moscow Mitch to be our savior, like you did with Mueller?

Loco.

There is a Senate Manual of rules of procedure that includes how to conduct an Impeachment trial. McConnell has some leeway to change those rules or to create other mischief. But no matter what he does, once Trump is impeached, the House (in their role as grand jury) brings the articles of Impeachment to the Senate and the Chief Justice presides over a trial at which the House acts as the prosecutors, questioning witnesses, etc. The Senate functions as a jury. Once the case is presented, ( and of course Trump will have his own defense) then the Senate has to vote whether or not to convict.

A non-conviction by the Senate will make the US believe in a gigantic cover up of Trump's crimes. The US public then will believe in a Deep State Conspiracy, one that benefits Trump.

We're proposing that Moscow Mitch will act as an acolyte for the Republican donor class. If everyone else benefits from Trump's removal, that's purely collateral benefit.

Whether they go fast or slow or somewhere in between, I think they need to be deliberate and meticulous, and make sure it is all very clear. Wading through all the verbiage of the fucking Mueller Report, with it;s ambiguous conclusions was frustrating and it didn't deliver the succinct knock out punch we were all hoping for. But that's another discussion.

The problem I see with public opinion, is that when guys like Rudy and Trump and his minions start talking about getting dirt on their opponent, a lot of people out here will say yeah, so what, they all do it. I actually had a cousin at a wedding last night tell me that the Dems did it with the Steele Dossier.

What I tried to tell him was that this is different. Hunter isn't running for anything. Trump was. And even more important, Congress approved aid to the Ukraine, and Trump deliberately withheld it to pressure the President of Ukraine to help gather dirt on Biden. This endangered our national security and it was also an abuse of power.

And all he kept saying was that politicians did this crap all the time. So if we want the public on our side we have to explain why it is illegal to have foreign governments interfere in our election, etc.

I'd ask these people what Congress approved taxpayers funds did Hillary have to horse trade for dirt on Trump in 2016.

Not only do we have to explain it, the explanation has to be in plain, simple language. Trump tried to blackmail a foreign country into investigating his political rival..

Everyone who has ever watched a soap opera understands the concept of blackmail. And when people argue that the other side does it too - don't argue the point. Just say that Trump was stupid enough to get caught. Now he's facing the consequences, and the consequences are that you get thrown out of being president. Again, everyone who has ever seen a soap opera knows that something bad happens when you get caught.

r240, Even if they did, there is nothing suggesting (at least in Beto's case) that he has any intention of running for a Senate seat this year instead.

In fact, he has come right out and said he wasn't going to do that.

I like the way you think, r249.

One quibble. I'd change the word blackmail to extort or shakedown.

And he was using our tax dollars to do it.

Have all the R candidates...Walsh, Weld, and Sanford come out for impeachment?? I think Walsh and Weld have.

The Dems need to have good lawyers asking witnesses questions...not these grandstanding Reps. We need professionals. Barring Schiff of course.

Yeah, I know Beto is toast whether he's running for president or senator. But if he would get out of the race sooner rather than later, he could shift his resources and organization to helping another Democrat in their effort to take out Cornyn.

You can't change a Deplorable's opinion about Trump. Especially not with words like crook or shakedown. For them it's either Fake News, or the end justify the means where Trump has to fight dirty, because Nancy and Hillary fight even dirtier by using dark women magic.

And I don't believe for a second that there is a single neutral, undecided potential voter with critical thinking skills in the US who can't decide which side he's on and then, all of a sudden, falls for the Fox News bullshit and thinks that those partisan Dems are ganging up on innocent Trump.

Hillary's dark woman magic is enhanced by the blood of the children she sacrifices in the basement of you-know-where.

And who do you think taught Hillary that dark women magic? Why, Michelle Obama, of course!

Pelosi handed the impeachment inquiry to Schiff because Nadler took the blame for the sputtering failure that was the Lewandowski appearance.

Della, I'm afraid that extort might be too big a word. Seriously. People know that the word extortion means something bad happened, but I don't know that a lot of Trump voters can define it. Whereas blackmail is a word used over and over on the daily soaps. Extort vs. blackmail is probably something that needs to be message tested.

[quote]Pelosi handed the impeachment inquiry to Schiff because Nadler took the blame for the sputtering failure that was the Lewandowski appearance.

Well, even without that, Schiff has been the most effective since the current Congress convened. It also has National Security implications, so it fits.

I think if (or, let's face it, when) they decide to push for the actual impeachment, it gets kicked back to Nadler so Judiciary can draw up the articles.

Yeah, r258, you're right. "Extort" has that book learnin', elite, ring to it.

Sorry R242, Beto still owns TX and the DNC needs to start acknowledging it.

Exactly Della. And if the Dems can find a soap opera parallel, all the better to explain to it to voters. It sounds stupid, but it conveys the concept in a simple way.

Nadler is a good guy, but he was in way over his head on this stuff. I'm glad Nancy turned the lead over to Schiff. And she did it so smoothly. "This is an Intelligence issue" and then she said Nadler and Judiciary would continue to conduct their ongoing investigations, etc.

I love her. I think she was hoping the Mueller report would have given her CLEAR justification but it fizzled. it wouldn't surprise me to discover Pelosi heard about the Ukraine stuff months ago, knew Rudy was going over there, and saw the red flags when Pompeo and other people kept mentioning Ukraine, and she waited to spring the mouse trap.

She was giving them enough rope. Nancy knows a lot more about the Ukraine situation than we do. Ever since the Republicans changed the platform, and Manafort's personal connections, etc. She's been watching this unfold, and of course she was also waiting for some very clear, obvious evidence of election interference that could be traced directly to Trump. What a fucking gift Donnie & Rudy are.

Word for word, r263. I adore and deeply admire Speaker Pelosi.

And, I agree with you. She probably knows a lot more on the Ukraine corruption than she can let on. I don't think she'd have given the green light on the impeachment inquiry if she didn't.

Did we ever learn what it was that had Feinstein looking so grave after walking out of that Intelligence meeting?

Lindsey's red herring

[quote]Did we ever learn what it was that had Feinstein looking so grave after walking out of that Intelligence meeting?

Gas? She's elderly.

[quote]Lindsey's red herring

Eww. I don't want to see that!

There's some suspicious gallivanting in Europe. Pompeo, Barr, Bannon and a bunch of Russian oligarchs have converged in Italy. Jared and Ivanka were there "on holiday" just last week.

Alex Mallin @alex_mallin First on @ABC : AG Barr has been on official travel in Italy for the past two days, during a week where he has faced intensifying scrutiny over his role in how the DOJ handled the IC's whistleblower complaint. It's unclear why the trip was only just revealed. w/@jonkarl

Caro Ma @Caro2Ma Barr was in Brussels on September 25: EU-US negotiations to facilitate access to electronic evidence in criminal investigations.

Juha Keskinen @MacFinn44 Sep 27 Richard LeFrak's (CEO of LeFrak/Trump's Infrastructure Adviser) N212LF has been in Florence/Pisa since 9/23/19; Igor Sechin's (CEO of Rosneft) M-YOIL was in Florence 9/25-9/26/19; Dmitry Rybolovlev's M-KATE flew to Rome today. Haven' had time to check the yachts yet.

Juha Keskinen @MacFinn44 Sep 27 Viktor Medvedchuk's (Ukrainian/Putin is his daughter's godfather/Manafort) yacht Royal Romance has been in Capri since 9/22/19. His P4-GEM flew to Naples 9/21/19. Royal Romance sailed from Salerno 9/21/19; Eugene Shvidler's (Chairman of Millhouse LLC/Abramovich) LX-FLY was in Turin 9/26-9/27/19;; Vladimir Lisin's (Novolipetsk Steel) OE-HLL flew to Milan today 9/27/19

Backtrack to 2016:

Juha Keskinen @MacFinn44 "Confirmed: Rybolovlev's Jet & Yacht were in Dubrovnik the same time as Ivanka and Jared Kushner (and Wendy Deng)" August 2016

1. Pelosi assigned Schiff because hes chairman of the intelligence committee....and most of this falls under those guidelines and most of what will come out concerns intelligence issues.

2. Support of impeachment is now at 55%...and we havent even started yet. Once witnesses and evidence starts getting produced for the public to see for themselves, that number will SKYROCKET.

It took Nixon a long time to get to that point...Trump is escalating it himself with his behavior and desperation tactics. NOTHING sways people more than obvious desperation that they can see right through...and that makes them think.

Hmmm, I think Trump's minions are in Europe trying to get dirt on opponents.

It's all very, very suspicious isn't it?

r269...no matter what theyre up to, it will backfire. Five Eyes can now smell blood in the waters...if a foreign government "suddenly" comes forward to help Trump, they will be exposed and taken down. We have too many allies who hate Trump and corruption who are monitoring thoise meetings and phone calls. There is no secrecy or limits when it comes intelligence abilities. Remember, Five Eyes produced evidence in the Mueller Report...some or most which was referred to counter intelligence. The main reason Mueller couldnt use it was Trumps sychophants LIED, WITHHELD AND DESTROYED EVIDENCE resulting in Mueller being unable to establish a direct link to Trump...but he did say that in his report and encouraged congress and others to keep looking because he believed the evidence was there but his hands were tied.

with trump supporters, one has to make sure they know it's "blackmail" NOT black male!...

Barr was in Brussels for this:

[quote]U.S. Department of Justice and European Commission officials met yesterday to begin formal negotiations on an E.U.-U.S. agreement to facilitate access to electronic evidence in criminal investigations. After a productive first discussion, there was agreement to regular negotiating rounds with the view to concluding an agreement as quickly as possible. Progress will be reviewed at the next E.U.-U.S. Justice and Home Affairs Ministerial in December.

R267 thought that was clever. Then again, not surprised based on its history.

Ode of La Sénatrice to 'My President'

Oh Daddy, I feel your pain,

Of course you are not insane.

For you I totally defend,

Only for you, shall I bend.

You have my heart and inspiration,

Through me, I shall slay the desperation.

Squee's old buddy captured my lust,

But in you, sir, I render total trust

Must say Vlad made the perfect pick,

Thus, it brought forth so much dick.

I shall close my eyes and engulf in dream,

thinking of golf outings with the cream.

r275....thats cute...you believe thats all that is going on

I would use a Game of Thrones analogy. SPOILER ALERT....

It's like when Dani made it clear if Sansa Stark didn't bend the knee, she was going to be toast. There wasn't an explicit quid pro quo, but everyone understood. So Jon Snow shanked her. Trump is Dani. Ukraine is Sansa Stark. Jon Snow is Nancy Pelosi. Drogon burned down the throne, but the realm survived, mostly. We'll get through this too.

R278, I'm just sharing the official verson.

It's seemingly innocent. But "cooperation in criminal investigations" by the guy who is going back to investigating Hillary emails for "crimes" and whose boss is asking other countries to investigate Hillary's server, it takes a more sinister outlines, doesn't it.

TPM lays out pretty simply what out two fave Fox News Lawyers have been doing for Trump, "off the books."

More in-fighting at FOX?

Chris Wallace exposes activities from frequent Hannity/Carlson guests.

Hmmm.....

[quote]they're not smart enough to see that he's shafting them most of all.

This is the crux of it all. We are where we're at because of ignorance. The Republicans have done everything in their power to destroy public education and they finally got what they wanted; an idiot, puppet class that will do their bidding.

R281, the bit about them "representing" Dmitry Firtash, the Ukrainian oligarch/gangster who is fighting extradition to the U.S., looks significant. What better way to launder bribe money than to have Firtash pay hefty legal fees to diGenova's firm, which can then funnel them to a Trump-affiliated company?

So what do we have so far...

- infighting at Fox

- Hannity apparently privately saying this isn't good

- weak if hysterical showings by the surrogates on the Sunday shows

- the Senate conceding it must do a trial

- public opinion polling showing support for impeachment or inquiry (?) at 55%

- talks proceeding to have the whistle blower testify soon

- half a dozen Rethuglicans calling it troubling and about two supporting the inquiry

It's an encouraging start as long as substantive momentum continues.

Let’s stop pussy footing around and realize this is a small but powerful global cabal taking over the two main powers ( UK and US) and therefore control of the world.

That or I need to cut back on the weed.

[quote] R211: Hans Nichols is so cute. ❤️

I think he’d be cuter with a more manly name. How about Dietrich? Or Mannheim? I’m open to suggestions.

Ledermeister

Would someone briefly explain why Hillary’s email server might be in Ukraine? It sounds really stupid. Ty.

NBC:

Top White House aides planning impeachment response effort

WSJ:

Whistleblower Is Expected to Testify Soon, Schiff Says

[quote]Would someone briefly explain why Hillary’s email server might be in Ukraine? It sounds really stupid. Ty.

It's in the basement of the Kiev Comet Pizza franchise.

NBC:

'Enough': Trump's ex-homeland security adviser 'disturbed,' 'frustrated' by Ukraine allegations, says president must let 2016 go

Yahoo:

Republican leadership memo suggests Senate can't block trial if House votes to impeach

The Hill:

Schiff: Democrats eyeing Trump-Putin calls

R289, it's a conspiracy theory with Putin's fingerprints all over it.

[quote]Let’s stop pussy footing around and realize this is a small but powerful global cabal taking over the two main powers ( UK and US) and therefore control of the world. That or I need to cut back on the weed.

I'm smoking some tonight so I'll let you know.

[quote]I know he's hated but I have a wary respect for Christie. He's very, very smart

And yet too stupid to say "no" to that 18th eclair.

This may or may not be obvious, but I feel the need to point it out.

Those "white house officials" who instructed these calls and transcripts to be concealed on that code word protected server is javanka.

So fat Donnie probably didn't know at first. But he was told, by them, that they were "protecting" his bullshit. That's why they've disappeared lately

AND - I should probably put this in the "predictions" thread but it is so damned obvious - all of those quid pro quo conversations that Jared has been having with MBS, MBZ, et al, are ALSO there.

That NSC server is a fucking GOLD MINE of incriminating evidence and I expect javanka has been pulling out of the stops to scrub it.

But his secret servers!

A good punchy essay. Why we should impeach Trump: because he can't be trusted to protect American interests in the world.

Shithead threatens Adam Schiff

Saw Twitter post that the Javanka circle want Hope back to help calm DJT.

She was quite the fixer of his emotional reactions to sordid Revelations..

Ready or not! Here comes Rudy!

Article on who we need to hear from...

JUST WATCHED "60 MINUTES" and hearing butt kisser extraordinare kevin mccarthy (he of giving trump his favorite jellybeans for the oval office presents).. actually state that he sees absolutely nothing in the memo that is wrong, and said the republicans do NOT have any defense or talking points because "WHY WOULD THEY?" when trump hasn't done anything wrong! twilight zone!....

Why isn't anyone in the Media bringing up that Drumpf dragging Hillary again is not only a distraction, but just wasting their tax dollars since 1) they've never found anything ever and 2) the statute of limitations is UP.

Oh, that's right. Same people that don't bother to cover that he's a lying liar that lies.

Tarot Reading

No one should praise Chris Krispy Kreme ever. He is a deeply corrupt man, deeply dishonest and is no better, though smarter, than Pres Bone Spurs.

Kevin McCarthy (appropriate last name) is absolutely despicable saying that. There isn't disgusting hyperbolic enough word for what he and the GOP in general are.

[quote] he sees absolutely nothing in the memo that is wrong

That apparently is the strategy they have chosen to go with. (1) There is nothing in this phone call that is improper. (2) You can’t “overturn the results of an election” for a phone call — which, by the way, wasn’t improper.

This from the crowd that impeached Bill Clinton for a stain on a blue dress.

And it flies in the face of what people can easily and plainly see for themselves from the complaint and the notes of the call. Cheatolini stopped the aid. The Ukrainians understood that they had to be willing to talk about Biden to get a phone call from Drumph. During the call the Ukrainian president mentions the missiles, and tRump starts the shakedown — I need “a favor, though.”

This couldn’t be clearer.

Impeach and remove this traitorous bastard.

99.9% of his voters will not listen to reason and I don't care what they think. We don't need them.

It is the small % of moderate leaning Republican or Independent voters (because of gerrymandering otherwise we wouldn't need them) who see what he is doing and are disgusted by it. These are more educated voters who don't watch the propaganda network.

Kevin McCarthy isn't the brightest lightbulb in the House. Nice if he could return to Bakersfield and run Kevin O's Deli again.

He's a total climate chang denier.

Kevin McCarthy isn't the brightest lightbulb in the House. Nice if he could return to Bakersfield and run Kevin O's Deli again.

He's a total climate chang denier.

Who actually thinks voting GOP is a good thing? They don't offer conservative solutions to problems. They deny them and just stick to "deregulation" and "tax cut" even though those things have contributed to massive problems including our deficit.

R310! Truth!

Slate: Did the White House Hide a Bombshell Memo from Mueller?

Wow, R316. The WH is just tax-subsidized criminality at this point.

In short time, Rudy will get thrown under the bus by the Trump gang. Rudy is old, probably with major health issues, has compromised judgment, and continues blabbing contradictions. All blame will be flung at him, to take focus off Trump. Giuliani will be the new Michael Cohen, whom Rudy viciously attacked when Cohen turned on Trump.

Didn't Kevin McCarthy say that Trump takes payments from Putin?

For R320

R321 Looks like Putin got something on McCarthy.

I think Putin has enough on the GOP to bring the whole party down.

We also need to expose what they had on Justice Kennedy and his son.

Slate just published a short interview with a mob expert, who made an interesting observation about Trump. Most crime lords, he says, prefer to fly under the radar and try never to attract public attention. John Gotti, the mobster Trump most resembles, was different: he was desperate for adulation and attention. That's what destroyed him. He had to be put away because he drew too much attention to his wrongdoing.

Yes, just like Al Capone, Gotti died in prison.

Who will be Trump's Martha Mitchell?

Please god I hope this turns out well. Media figures are making me dread the outcome.

Saw this on Twitter:

[quote]Trump just threatened civil war if he’s impeached. Inciting riots is a federal offense. What is inciting war?

I imagine "tweets fomenting civil war" will be added as another article of impeachment.

Now DL fave Adam Kinzinger is speaking out against Trump

Someone tell me please, please, tell me why is Adam Kinzinger a Republican. If it weren’t for his shitty politics, I would top, bottom, and sideways with him tout suite.

I’m glad he spoke out against the Terror-In-Chief. That’s promising.

[quote]Yes, just like Al Capone, Gotti died in prison.

Except that Capone didn't die in prison.

Not only do I want Trump to die in prison, but I hope he's discovered sitting on the toilet!

can't wait for the new bombshells and testimonies this week

the impeachment train has left the station and it ain't slowing down any fucking time soon.

the beyond arrogant GOP pieces of shit thought they had gotten away with everything after the Barr cover-up and unhelpful nature of Mueller's testimony but no, agent fat fuck orange traitor just had to overplay his hand with Ukraine.

Mika slamming the Clintons again on Morning Joe in comparing them to the Bidens, per the Trump-Ukraine saga. Hillary has nothing to do with this.

MSNBC needs to let Mika go. Her Clinton bashing has gone on for years. She and Maureen Dowd are still too obsessed with the Clintons in a negative way.

[quote]Someone tell me please, please, tell me why is Adam Kinzinger a Republican.

Because otherwise he wouldn't win in his idyllic Trumphead district (IL 16th). But he must be getting some blue poll numbers from that direction or he wouldn't tweet the truth.

Garry Kasparov:

As you watch Trump’s defenders lie, deflect, and distract today and in the coming weeks, remember that they don’t care about being caught in obvious lies. Calling bullshit still means you’re talking about the bullshit, not the facts.

They want doubt. They can make up a dozen new lies and new distractions every day while there’s only one truth. Stop chasing them and keep repeating the facts.

Many thought it strange when Putin’s propaganda released many different “refutations” after Russian forces shot down MH17, some even on the same day. But they want to distract, not refute. To make it seem like the truth isn’t knowable.

They’ll attack the truth-tellers, accuse them of anything at all, because playing defense takes energy. They’ll use whataboutism to distract from their crimes. Keep following the money and repeating the truth.

r334. MSNBC isn't likely to let Mika go while she's married to the host of "Morning Joe."

Republican strategist Liz Mair:

New Trump ad hitting Biden appears to have disclaimer needed for TV. If I were any TV stations, I’d be VERY reluctant to run that ad. Standard for defamation of public officials is high and rightly so but this ad is plainly and deliberately inaccurate and walking a fine line.

Former Ukraine prosecutor says he saw no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden.

Ukraine’s former top law enforcement official says he repeatedly rebuffed demands by President Trump’s personal lawyer to investigate Joe Biden and his son, insisting he had seen no evidence of wrongdoing that he could pursue.

Lutsenko said he had urged Giuliani to launch a U.S. inquiry and go to court if he had any evidence but not to use Ukraine to conduct a political vendetta that could affect the U.S. election.

Lutsenko said he met Giuliani twice in person and had numerous conversations with him on the phone. He described the former New York mayor as obsessed with possible misconduct by Biden or his son Hunter.

So in Nancy's interview over the weekend that when she spoke to Dotard he didn't even know that what he did was wrong.

Will the Rethugs start hiding behind that? That because his intent to commit a crime wasn't there then it's okay! Of course that doesn't excuse the cover up.

Also, I was listening to the radio this morning and they had a clip from, I think it was one of the Republican Congressman from CA who went off saying that Adam Schiff tweeted about this very thing in August, which shows that he must have known about it a long time ago!!!!

So that seems to be one of their new strategies... blame Schiff for knowing about it sooner and that is somehow the crime... not the actual crime itself.

Their attempts at deflection are staggering.

[quote]The pressure on Ukraine to investigate Biden has been not only from Trump, but also from the Kremlin. One of the expectations, voiced on Russian state-television channel Rossiya 24 by analyst Alexander Kareevsky, was that taking down Biden would inevitably lead to the “revelation”—in fact, an outrageous fantasy—that the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was ordered by the Obama administration and carried out by Ukraine, not Russia.

[quote]In another fantasy, pundits on Russian state television continually assert that Trump’s impeachment is all but “impossible.” In the meantime, the impeachment fallout is beneficial for the Kremlin, creating a spectacle of unprecedented political turmoil in the United States while placing Ukraine in the untenable position of alienating both parties, as well as the country’s European allies, and distracting from Russian election interference and the imposition of any additional sanctions.

[quote]Participants on 60 Minutes, Russia’s flagship info-talk show—hosted by pugnacious married couple Olga Skabeeva and Evgeny Popov and featuring Russian ambassadors, government officials, and military experts—frequently boast that Trump is “owned” by Russia and demand Ukraine release kompromat on Biden or “give back the money,” referring to U.S. aid provided to Ukraine.

[quote] So in Nancy's interview over the weekend that when she spoke to Dotard he didn't even know that what he did was wrong. Will the Rethugs start hiding behind that? That because his intent to commit a crime wasn't there then it's okay! Of course that doesn't excuse the cover up.

No, no, no, no,no. We are not going to let them pull that bullshit again. He committed this crime AFTER the Mueller report came out. The report where the central issue was about his asking for and receiving Russian assistance in the 2016 election. This “oh, we didn’t know” defense is complete and utter nonsense. He knew.

I think Nancy means he doesn't realize - has not the mental capacity to grasp - obvious facts like what he did was in fact wrong. Because he thinks he's always right and what he does is legal just by virtue of a President doing i - L'etat c'est moi.

My take on it was that Nancy was pointing out that he's a moron... but again, I fear that's going to lead to their new defense/talking point... it isn't a crime if he didn't KNOW it was a crime!

He knew. And therefore he should be impeached and removed. The fact that he’s that much of a moron is simply another reason why he shouldn’t be the president.

R309, here I was, thinking I was the only one in the world who knows the origin of the word 'blarney' or understands that name's particular infamy. You'd like to think, after centuries of alternate experience, that the bloodline would change and evolve. Nope.

[quote]No, no, no, no,no. We are not going to let them pull that bullshit again. He committed this crime AFTER the Mueller report came out.

And remember what WSJ reported over the weekend: Former White House chief of staff John Kelly used to mute the line during President Donald Trump's calls with world leaders to tell him not to continue discussing sensitive information

Exactly, R346, and to have the gall to try and use it is further evidence of his hubris and lawlessness.

They'd just spend months defending and burying every shred of evidence of his collusion to do exactly the same thing with Russia in 2016. His administration hid evidence that it happened. These are not the actions of an innocent person or someone ignorant of that particular crime.

He did it because he thought he'd gotten away with it and because this is what criminals do. They turn right around and do it because who would possibly believe he could be that stupid? His own memo has him behaving as someone without fear of reprisal, but yet they hid the conversation knowing it was criminal.

More water for the drowning in that defense.

How embarrassing that must be, R348 - though Trump is too stupid to understand.

Chuck Todd has his name on an NBC editorial? Well, Mark Murray and Carrie Dann helped.

And of course, such articles must have a pic of one who just sashayed to the cameras and microphones.

Reagan, Bush Jr, Trump—why do the Republicans keep foisting ignorant yahoos on us in the greatest position of power? The only non-ignorant yahoo recently was Bush Sr, and they hated him (as did the rest of us).

Oh, L.O.G., Just stop!

Threatening these intelligence staffers?

Ignorance of the law is a defence in two very specific circumstances, neither of which applies to Cheeto. I have no doubt he is entirely ignorant of the laws and limits governing him because he's probably the least intelligent man to ever occupy the office.

Bill Clinton got impeached...for lying under oath. He also lost his license to practice law. How many Trumpsters have lied under oath to Congress or to the FBI or to the Mueller team?

too many comments to go thru but did anyone post that Putin said he hoped his phone calls with Trump wouldn't be made public. I think Putin Wants his phone calls made public because he knows it will finish Trump as Putin is done with him.

[quote]Reagan, Bush Jr, Trump—why do the Republicans keep foisting ignorant yahoos on us in the greatest position of power?

The dumber they are, the easier they are to control. The Republican establishment did not want Trump at all because, while he's stupid, he's also obstinate and uncontrollable. They try to control him by kissing his ass but that only works intermittently.

Put Put wants to create the idea that he doesn't want the tapes out there, not because he's done with Dump but because he wants to sow chaos. It's what he does.

Miss Lindz, Kevin McCarthy and the rest of the GOP cabal in Congress are a perfect illustration of fiction becoming reality.

And by fiction I mean the short-lived but fun TV show "Brain Dead" about space invader bugs eating into the brains of Capital Hill politicians.

R106 R107

The KREMLIN said on Monday that Washington would need Russian consent to publish transcripts of phone calls between Trump and Putin

boy they sure are pushing us to release them................

After the strange confluence of US Officials including Pompeo and various Russians in Italy, suddenly the State Dept announces sanctions on Russians "attempting" to meddle in the 2016 elections. (Yeah, attempting - I see what you did there, Mikey)

Also, Pompeo is meeting Cheeto in the WH at 4 pm.

Expect more smokescreens to follow.

They can't clean this up. LOL! It's like fucking quicksand. This is proof of Trump extorting the PResident of the Ukraine to interfere in our 2020 presidential election, to smear a political opponent. And the fact that Fat Mike Pompeo, who was one of the biggest pushers of the Benghazi narrative, now using his position and the State Department to re investigate "E-mails!" and interview more than 130 current AND FORMER members of the State Department staff who worked under Hillary, after she was cleared by the FBI and by the Inspector General of the State Department, is another impeachable offense. Trump is digging a very deep hole. Abuse of power, treason, obstruction of justice, etc. It's a fucking shopping list. And his comments to the Russians confirmed in 2017, that he knew they had interfered to help him, and he was good with it. I want his ass out of the WH. Gone. And I want asset forfeiture.

All the lower level staffers at the White House, normal dudes who are part of this are going to have to make the same choice Voker and Bossert made. Because otherwise they will have to lawyer up, and it will cost them a fortune. And you know Trump isn't going to pay for them. Barr & Pompeo have money. But Kelly Anne and a few others don't have that kind of money. They re well to do, but not that well to do. We need to hear from mcMasters, Mattis, Bolton, and even Dan Coats and his former deputy Gordon.

[quote]and interview more than 130 current AND FORMER members of the State Department staff who worked under Hillary, after she was cleared by the FBI and by the Inspector General of the State Department

He's not only re-re-interviewing them, he's also retro-classifying Hillary's emails to manufacture proof.

[quote]A former US official who left the State Department in 2012 received a letter in August informing him that dozens of his emails that had been sent to then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton were now being recategorized as classified.

Kellyanne most certainly does have that kind of money, R364. She's been a political operative for some time along with her husband.

Shouldn't Pompeo be charged with something for re-investigating something that has past the statute of limitations?

[quote]A key House Democrat said he’s consulting lawyers about whether to make public a complaint by a federal employee about possible misconduct in the Internal Revenue Service’s auditing of President Donald Trump.

[quote]The complaint raises allegations about “inappropriate efforts to influence” the audit process, House Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal said in a letter to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin in August. Neal told reporters on Friday that a decision on releasing the complaint depends on advice he receives from lawyers for the House of Representatives.

Mitch McConnell on CNBC this morning said that if the House passes articles of impeachment, "under the Senate rules we're required to take it up ... I would have no choice but to take it up. How long we're on it is a whole different matter."

R368... so what!

A deplorable friend of mine said "but why are they always attacking him" I responded "because he a fucking lawless moronic asshole who wipes is ass with the constitution." She didn't have much to say to that.

He attacks various people every day and incites his followers to commit acts of violence, and they still see him as the victim?

They have to, R372, that's the definition of a Deplorable.

Speaking of Deplorables, it amuses me to no end that the same people who shout, "Libtard," and "Snowflake," get really, really, really, pissed off when you call them a Deplorable.

Why is that?

R374 The truth hurts?

Newt Gingrich is calling this impeachment attempt "partisan"

*Giggle*

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch joins the Connecticut Post in calling for Trump to vacate the presidency:

"How far must a president go in betraying his country before Republicans finally declare that he no longer represents their values? How much crisis, chaos and scandal can Republicans, exhausted from constantly defending him, tolerate before they decide enough’s enough? The time has come for Republicans to stand up for the Constitution, stand up for America, and tell Trump to step down."

Gollywhopper political procrastinator

Just like with McCain's crotch fruit, I don't understand why Huckabeast thinks we should give a fuck about what her opinions on the Democratic nominees are.

Oh my, "Porky's Revenge"

USA Today:

Mitch McConnell: Senate must hold trial on Trump if House impeaches

[quote]The St. Louis Post-Dispatch joins the Connecticut Post in calling for Trump to vacate the presidency:

If these op-eds continue, it's only going to make him more unhinged.

R382 They are and he will.

McTutle has no compunctions so what's his play here?

He thinks impeachment will sink the Dems in 2020 - or it will allow GOP to oust Trump - or both?

Trump is nowhere near as popular as Clinton was, so good luck with that perception McTurtle and others equally stupid. That was then and this is now.

That, R385, and the dawning realization by some people that a beej is one thing but fucking over your country is quite another.

R384, McConnell has tipped his hand: he intends to sharply limit the time Democrats have to put on their case. That's how he will control the process.

[quote]a beej

more commonly referred to as a bj

From r376....

Meghan McCain Torches Media for 'Blatant Sexism'

“If any of the women on this show behaved the way some of the men were behaving, we would be hysterical, maniac, crazy bitches all over the Internet, and these guys get away with it!” she said.

But you're still licking all their taints Megz so....

From r376, a certain Angela Mayfield writes:

They had to disinfect everything you touched at the University of West Georgia because it stank like farts and hubris, you rotten pile of deer guts, poached out of season.

Crawl back into your dark hole like the troglodyte you are.

r392, a lot of the responses to Gingrich are awesome:

Hey, remember when you had to resign right before the Senate impeachment trial because you were covering up your own affair?

Good times.

And remember the guy who replaced you as Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert?

He was imprisoned a few years ago on charges relating to sexually assaulting a minor.

More good times.

The Connecticut Post is pretty conservative, I'm surprised but pleased they are among the first newspapers to call for impeachment.

Angela Mayfield must a drag name for somebody from here.

CNN:

Joe diGenova slams report by Chris Wallace which said he was in contact with Rudy Giuliani on Ukraine as "absolutely false." Wallace is standing by his report.

[quote]The first member of Congress to announce his support for Donald Trump's presidential bid is likely to plead guilty Tuesday to charges relating to insider trading, according to documents filed in federal court Monday.

[quote] Newt Gingrich is calling this impeachment attempt "partisan"

[quote] *Giggle*

Was the impeachment of Bill Clinton bipartisan?

[quote]I think Putin wants his phone calls made public because he knows it will finish Trump as Putin is done with him.

The withdrawal of daddy's love will be devastating to Trump, on so many levels. Not least the humiliation of being fired by the alpha he's crushed on for so long. The enraged thwarted lashing out in response is bound to be berserk, even by his non-standards. There's only so much shame even a world-class sociopath can take. Tick tock.

Gingrich and his ilk sure have short memories...or maybe it is performance art in hypocrisy?

R399 I suspect this has been part of Putin's plan all along. Remember, Putin hasn't been doing this because of any favortism for Trump and the Republicans. He chose them because he knew they were far more corrupt than the Democrats and would be easier to manipulate. His game plan all along is to sow discord, create huge division, and destroy the US power-structure all over the world. So far, I think he's succeeded far beyond his dreams.

Oh, and remember back in 2016 when the GOP bragged about Putin's hacking of the DNC but how their servers has been protected? I, and many others, theorized he got into both systems. He only released the Dem stuff to prove he had the ability, and because the Dem stuff was mostly just boringly scandalous and embarrassing without being truly damaging. Now the GOP stuff - THAT'S Kompromat! And it's what he's been using all along to blackmail them.

A lot of people know this, but has anything been officially reported?

WATCH.....Putin will put out a false transcript of a call implicating Trump in something.....and Trump will fall for the bait and release the WH version of the same call which implicates him even more. Putin is no dummy, but he sure knows Trump is. He will throw Trump under the bus before allowing Trump to drag him into something hes denied forever.

[quote]Bolton was among the senior members of the president’s national security team, including Vice President Mike Pence, who did not listen in on the Zelenskiy call, officials said.

Mikey covering his ass already.

Pence has been defending the call and defending the contents of it publicly. He can only lie so many times before it bited him in the ass. Remember the Flynn call ?

Boomerang!

R405 Do you think it's painful to be that ignorant?

[quote] R340: So in Nancy's interview over the weekend that when she spoke to Dotard he didn't even know that what he did was wrong.

IIRC, the law was written uniquely. It was for themselves, so...If they don’t know the are breaking it, they can’t be prosecuted. He’s been told many times, given the Russian business. So, who knows at this point!?

This will be a very long process and I’ve had it!

CNN:

Mac Thornberry: Sixth GOP House member from Texas announces plans to leave Congress

NYT:

Trump Seeks Whistle-Blower’s Identity

R387, you wrote, "McConnell has tipped his hand: he intends to sharply limit the time Democrats have to put on their case. That's how he will control the process."

I'm not in the US, so I don't know about these things really, but I thought that once the trial begins in the Senate, the Chief Justice takes over and it becomes his court for the duration. I'm sure that the Senate must be able to set aside time for other business, but it seems to me that the trial will go on for as long as the Chief Justice deems it necessary. If that is the case, then nobody will be able to play stupid with the timetable. Or have I got that wrong? Would someone knowledgeable about these things care to chime in with an explanation of the process?

NBC:

With Congress on recess, what's next in the Trump impeachment inquiry?

Bad-ish news:

The fact that Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. would preside over that trial does not prevent the Senate from drafting its own bespoke procedures and rules. The Senate’s impeachment rules provide that Roberts’s evidentiary rulings can be subjected to a Senate vote and overturned according to the Senate’s standing rules. Presuming motions to overturn such rulings are handled according to Senate Standing Rule XX governing questions of order, a simple majority of the Senate would be sufficient to overrule the chief justice. In other words, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), not Roberts, would be the de facto presiding officer if he so chooses.

The Hill:

Harvard law professor: Trump civil war tweet impeachable on its own

Thanks R412, although that wasn't really what I was hoping to hear. It seems sort of odd that the Senate hands over the trial to an impartial arbiter, but retains the right to strike out any of his decisions they don't like. Hardly impartial.

Bob Livingston, Speaker designee, had to resign after Gingrich, due to a sex scandal. Then came Dennis Hastert.

Whew! Trump doesn't have to worry about being impeached over a sex scandal. Oh wait.....

How is it looking at this point? Who's winning? So much gloom and doom from the press. Please give me good news.

McConnell would not preside over a Senate impeachment trial. Supreme Court Justice John Roberts would preside. I seriously doubt he would shut down the testimony before House prosecutors fully stated their case and elaborated on the evidence being presented. He would not allow Republican filibustering either, but would render sufficient time for the defense to deliver counter arguments.

R402 that would be perfection!

R402 that would be perfection!

Bloomberg:

Giuliani Subpoenaed by House for Documents: Impeachment Update

I don’t know why they’re issuing a subpoena. They just need to TiVo his CNN appearances.

They are done for - Rudy Guiliani fucks everything up. Bye Trump!

Pompeo was in on the call with Zelensky.

And now Australia is in the mix!

Barr is scum and needs to resign immediately.

The key matter of impeachment would be the VOTE. Doubtful, any Senator will be going into the chamber uncertain as to how he or she may vote. That said, if flipping to yes for fence sitters starts, it could have a ripple effect. A lot can happen between now and then.

If Charles Koch, Robert and daughter Rebekah Mercer, Rupert Murdoch, or unlikely Sheldon Adelson, and even others behind the scenes, such as Mark Zuckerberg, put out the word they want Trump gone, those Republicans in Congress allegedly totally dedicated to Trump, will start turning rather quickly.

Of course the Australia story had had to be released, but I hope it doesn’t slow down the House’s Ukraine work.

Pompeo & Barr are so fat. Ewww.

R428 Rudy doesn't look like he's been sticking to the Paleo diet either.

Nervous eater?

The Australia story reinforces the treasonous, impeachable pattern.

WSJ:

Pompeo Took Part in Trump-Zelensky Phone Call, Official Says

These fat fucks went after anyone who exposed the Russian interference and the DNC hacking, including foreign countries.

I'm so fine if that's gonna be their downfall, and not Mueller. It's a confirmation of all Russia evidence in the report, and the IC conclusions.

And the Italian trip comes into view.

From the Australia-Barr-Trump story:

[quote]Mr. Barr flew to Italy last week and met with Italian government officials on Friday. The Justice Department spokeswomen would not say whether he discussed the election inquiry in those meetings, but former Justice Department officials said that Mr. Barr would need to ask foreign countries for cooperation in turning over documents pertaining to the 2016 election."

I wonder who will resign first. Barr? Pompeo? Pence? Trump? This is going to be so much fun.

Hunny, they'll go down with the ship.

CNN now saying Ukraine and Australia are not the only countries pressured by Trump for dirty tricks campaign assistance. Developing.

Tom Nichols:

Trumper counter-narrative already forming: "It's totally okay for Trump to ask Australia to help with a CI investigation about Russian interference."

Except what Trump really wanted is: "Work with Attorney General Renfield to undermine the Mueller Report."

Losing focus. Russia hole.

Josh Hawley could emerge a leader from this if he abandons ship quick enough.

Washington Post:

Attorney General Barr personally asked foreign officials to aid inquiry into CIA, FBI activities in 2016

Barr will never resign. He'll just continue to break the law every chance he gets.

Barr looks like he has a clogged heart.

Attorney General William P. Barr has held private meetings overseas with foreign intelligence officials seeking their help in a Justice Department inquiry that President Trump hopes will discredit U.S. intelligence agencies’ examination of Russian interference in the 2016 election.

Barr has already made overtures to British intelligence officials, and last week the attorney general traveled to Italy, where he asked senior Italian government officials to assist in the matter. It was not Barr’s first trip to Italy to meet intelligence officials. The Trump administration has made similar requests of Australia.

Gross.

"Current and former intelligence and law enforcement officials expressed frustration and alarm Monday that the head of the Justice Department was taking such a direct role in re-examining what they view as conspiracy theories and baseless allegations of misconduct."

I can't wait to hear what Trump asked Russia and the Saudis to do for him.

"It's okay if you cut that journalist into tiny little pieces. We do it, too."

Somehow, I don't think the spooks would take too kindly to their toes being stepped on by a fucking thug like Barr.

At least, I hope not.

Another great infrastructure week!

emptywheel:

I'm so old I remember how @RepMarkMeadows, @Jim_Jordan, and @MattGaetz spent an entire year arguing it was criminal to improperly inset foreign intelligence into DOJ investigations ... I'm sure they'll hold Barr accountable for doing that!

I think Volker's testimony will help the Dems quite a bit.

It's scary just how close the Justice Department came to burying this. Here's the back story on how this complaint was handled and how the department almost made it go away.

[quote]At some point, the whistleblower became aware that the White House was investigating the call — and that White House lawyers, rather than CIA attorneys, were interviewing White House officials about Trump’s remarks to Ukrainian President Zelensky.

[quote]This is believed to have spooked the CIA officer, given it wasn’t the independent investigation he was hoping for, and pushed him make the more formal complaint with Inspector General Atkinson. By now, according to the New York Times, he had heard more from his White House sources about how the White House attorneys were handling the fallout from the call, including that they had put records on the call in the restricted access call system.

...

[quote]Instead, however, Maguire reached out to the White House, because he believed it raised executive privilege concerns since the complaint centered on a presidential conversation with a foreign leader.

[quote]Maguire also reached out to the Justice Department for its advice. By then, the Justice Department had been looking at the call for several days.

[quote]On Sept. 3, the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel issued an opinion determining that the complaint did not meet that “urgent concern” definition and that that the allegations could stay within the Justice Department’s purview, rather than be turned over to Congress.

[quote]The Justice Department decided that what Trump was seeking on the call — an investigation into the family of political rival — did not constitute a thing of value under campaign finance law and thus an investigation into a campaign finance violation was not warranted.

[quote]Atkinson notified the House Intelligence Committee on Sept. 9 that a complaint existed even as he was being blocked by the administration from providing it. Had he not done so, it’s possible that no one outside of the executive branch would have ever known about the details of the call and the whistleblower’s other allegations.

Remember that last year Pompeo as CIA head invited Russian spy chiefs to the CIA HQ, and one them was actually under US sanctions!

[quote]The U.S. Senate’s top Democrat Chuck Schumer wrote to Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats on Jan. 31 asking why U.S. intelligence officials met with Sergey Naryshkin, the head of Russia’s foreign intelligence agency, known as the SVR. Among other questions, Schumer asked how Naryshkin was able to enter the United States because he is under U.S. sanctions barring him from the country. Naryshkin was blacklisted in 2014 as part of the U.S. response to Russia’s seizure of Crimea from Ukraine.

[quote]Naryshkin met with DNI Coats at Coats’s suburban Washington headquarters, according to two sources. A third source said that the SVR chief met Pompeo at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. Naryshkin was accompanied by Alexander Bortnikov, the director of the Federal Security Service, or FSB, Russia’s main domestic intelligence agency, the third source said.

I think the impeachment train has left the station at this point.

Putin is not "done with Trump." The alternative of having a Democrat or even a reasonable Republican (not sure they even exist any more) as President means he would no longer have a puppet to do his bidding any more. That said, Putin has succeeded in weakening the US and its allies. So does he still need Trump? When does he become a liability?

Putin is not "done with Trump." The alternative of having a Democrat or even a reasonable Republican (not sure they even exist any more) as President means he would no longer have a puppet to do his bidding any more. That said, Putin has succeeded in weakening the US and its allies. So does he still need Trump? When does he become a liability?

Putin is not "done with Trump." The alternative of having a Democrat or even a reasonable Republican (not sure they even exist any more) as President means he would no longer have a puppet to do his bidding any more. That said, Putin has succeeded in weakening the US and its allies. So does he still need Trump? When does he become a liability?

Say that again?

It's so nice, I'll say it thrice.

Putin is cuter than an inter uterine.

G-I-T-M-O spells Gitmo Bay!

omfg I would be elated if Joe diGenova and Victoria Toenswing went down in flames along with Giuliani for their involvement in Trump's attempted Ukraine collusion.

That married duo has been chasing after Hillary for over 20 years now

will Giuliani ever get in trouble for his conduct in 2016 when some FBI NY office source told him about "an October surprise" regarding Hillary?

*Toensing

[quote] Trump ‘s conversation with the Ukrainian President was “perfect”, he says.

You just know someone put the word “perfect” into that tiny little syphilitic brain of his.

Rudy is on Hannity tonight. Buckle up!

So we are in debt to the spooked spook who took his concerns to the IG and the IG who then called "bullshit" when bloated Billy said, "nothing to see here".

Thank you, patriots!

So we are in debt to the spooked spook who took his concerns to the IG and the IG who then called "bullshit" when bloated Billy said, "nothing to see here".

Thank you, patriots!

Yeah, the whistleblower really is a modern day hero. Despite the law protecting him or her, WBs are never treated well, if they are discovered, after the first year, or maybe two. When the WB gets a new boss who doesn’t have a relationship with him, he’ll suffer for it.

[quote]David Laufman, a former Justice Department official who was involved in the early stages of the Russia probe, said it was “fairly unorthodox for the attorney general personally to be flying around the world as a point person to further evidence-gathering for a specific Justice Department investigation,” and especially so in Barr’s case.

[quote]“Even if one questions, as a threshold matter, the propriety of conducting a re-investigation of the Justice Department’s own prior investigation of Russia’s interference, the appointment of John Durham — a seasoned, nonpartisan prosecutor — provided some reason to believe that it would be handled in a professional, nonpartisan manner,” Laufman said. “But if the attorney general is essentially running this investigation, that entire premise is out the window.”

How insane are these jamoccas? You're flying around asking foreign goverments to discredit their OWN Intelligence agencies and ours. All in an attempt to discredit the Mueller report - which supposedly 'exonerated' him - and dig up dirt on your political enemies for revenge.

He could have left it alone. How utterly stupid this whole administration is as the gang who couldn't see straight.

What’s a “jamoccas”? It’s not in the dictionary.

Italian slang, I believe 🤔

Dudes, guys, ne’er-do-wells, thugs.

Politico:

DOJ confirms foreign outreach in probe of 2016 election

L.A. Times: Ousted US diplomat could be crucial to impeachment inquiry

— In President Donald Trump’s rough parlance, she was “the woman.”

That’s how Trump described Marie Louise Yovanovitch, the widely respected former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, in his July 25 telephone call with Ukranian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy.

R471, "jamocca" = dumb white guy.

Barr: there’s nothing wrong with gathering evidence if it exists in a foreign country. It just demonstrates how crafty Hillary is. We don’t even know what she’s done, she’s just that crafty. But our allies, if they know what’s good for them, as it’s good for us, will find evidence of wrongdoing by Hillary. They better.

We already have learned that she was responsible for the downing of that Malaysian commercial jet over Russia, some years ago. Also, her email server turned up in Ukraine. And she created the peeper tape. We’ll keep looking.

Tangent: The weird thing about ambassadors, I understand how the ambassadorship of Liechtenstein or the Vatican can go to a donor as a perk. But our important allies, like the U.K. or France, call for professionals. Likewise for important countries in conflict areas, like Ukraine, Iraq, and so forth.

Bill Barr is a bigger whore than Melania.

Lindsay Graham must have some really serious kompromat shit on him to become a rabid Trump defender, hell or high water.

Politico:

President Trump may have lied to Mueller, House Democrats say

[quote]President Trump may have lied to Mueller, House Democrats say

R471/R475, my former landlady, a little Portuguese woman, used 'jamocca' about stupid lowlifes. I always thought it came from the local fishermen and actually translated as 'asshole' in Portugese. Maybe someone knows for sure, but that's how I meant it.

I'm white adjacent, btw, but the word fits even if I'm not some cool black guy using it.

This Jenna Ellis is the one Trump mentioned in his Tweets. She was just on Tucker Carlson bashing Adam Schiff. See her employer.

Nasty

R482 With origins in the slang word, "Jamoke."

Remind me why the Mueller Report, which completely exonerated Trump, needs to be investigated?

R484, they all work so well, don't they?

Jenna Ellis is on Trump 2020 Advisory Board. She works for the James Dobson Family Institute. Right-wing fundamentalist lawyer, the Mat Staver type.

The Hill:

Giuliani says he's received subpoena 'signed only by Democrat Chairs who have prejudged this case'

He's such a whiny old man. It's tiring to keep hearing all the grampy lies. Enough of this shit.

It's still a valid subpoena, bitch!

But please ignore it so we can lock your criming, lunatic ass up!

I was going to post this morning — for all the Nervous Nellies — that this was not going to get better for tRump but significantly worse. Today underscored that and was a prime example that tRump is in significant trouble with all the stories tumbling out about tRump trying to violate whistleblower protections; Barr’s activities flying around the globe trying to dig up dirt on our intelligence agencies; Pompeo listening in to the call with the Ukrainian president; and Rudy applying extreme pressure to get the Ukrainians to reopen the Biden investigation — among other articles. The likelihood is that the career civil servants who were mentioned by the whistleblower will only amplify the whistleblower’s assertions because they were already upset about Cheatolini’s illegalities. Plus, they may have addition information on other crimes that will be revealed.

And, just to note, the Mueller report did not “completely exonerate” tRump. Mueller would have charged tRump with obstruction of justice if DOJ did not bar prosecutors from filing criminal charges against a sitting president. This notion that Mueller somehow cleared 45 is simply not accurate.

Committee Chairs sign the subpoenas, Rudy. We know you would prefer Jim Jordan's autograph.

[quote] R485: Remind me why the Mueller Report, which completely exonerated Trump, needs to be investigated?

It specifically said it did not exonerate Trump, and Mueller also testified to that effect.

I don’t know why it would be investigated, except that Trump told Barr to find something to complain about.

Guys, sarcasm, guys.

She broke the law & lost. In the end, Mitch is like "I don't know her".

Watch Maddow tonight And watch Chris Hayes' interview with her about her new book, before her program. If you miss it go back and watch it tomorrow it's important. It focuses on the Ukraine, Obama, NATO and all the context and the important facts we need to know. In this context it makes what Trump, Pompeo and BArr have been up to absolutely treasonous. They're a bunch of thuggish amateurs who think bullying is the way to talk to foreign governments. BArr is traveling all over the globe to get evidence to totally discredit our own intelligence agencies' findings about the 2016 election...to exonerate Russia, and legitimize Trump. This is the most bizarre nasty shit I've ever seen. Those fuckers need to be stopped as soon as possible. THey're attempting to dismantle our entire national security apparatus.

[quote] R494: Guys, sarcasm, guys.

Sorry, Trump is so farcical that no one can really express sarcasm that is more silly than what he regularly comes up with and means..

Does anyone want to guess what the subject of Maggie Haberman's whatabout-ism article tomorrow will be?

Democrats in South Carolina now believe that Lindsey Graham may be beatable.

Barr is probably meeting with the Nigel Farage types and other Extreme Right crackpots in Europe following Putin's roadmap. I'm convinced Barr is a russian asset sent in there to mind Trump.

Barr is probably meeting with the Nigel Farage types and other Extreme Right crackpots in Europe following Putin's roadmap. I'm convinced Barr is a russian asset sent in there to mind Trump. Our own Intelligence communities are being discredited and the impact it will have on our ability to gathintel and to cooperate with our allies, is being damaged irreparably. Barr needs to be tried for treason. Rotten fucker.

[quote]Democrats in South Carolina now believe that Lindsey Graham may be beatable.

UNCLE PETER, FETCH ME MY SMELLING SALTS!

Lindz is on Hannity right now babbling on about the deep state and trump being targeted by an out of control intelligence community. Also Hillary's 33,000 deleted emails.

The noose is getting tighter every day

Tonight on Rachel Maddow: All these shenanigans circle back to lifting Russian sanctions put in place after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine.

All the way from Michael Flynn, through Oleg Deripaska investing in Kentucky and getting his ban on entering US lifted, to all this crisscrossing of Europe by the Travelling Dumbaries, Rudy's hobnobbing with Russians from FL, Cheeto's leaning on Zelensky -both on the call and in the UN presser- to hug it out with Putin, the re-investigation of the IC conclusion that Russia intervened in 2016, and hell, Hillary's emails.

Pompeo is in this up to his neck. He was just spotted getting ready to leave for his trip abroad with...wait for it...Gorka accompanying him. Yes. So it all the fucking lunatics. Trump is so deep into the conspiracy theory country he can't smell his own shit.

So Barr, Pompeo, Ruby Julie (Marilyn M if ya nasty), Pres Bone Spurs, who else? Jared? Ivanka? Lil Donnie Boom Boom? Who else?

Is Susan Collins concerned yet?

Examiner: Intelligence watchdog defends handling of whistleblower complaint

The inspector general who oversees the nation's intelligence groups defended its handling of the Ukraine whistleblower complaint, stating on Monday that the whistleblower submitted the proper form and reiterating the complaint was urgent and credible.

The rare four-page watchdog statement on Monday responded to questions from Republican senators Monday prompted by claims from conservative media last week that the watchdog had secretly changed its whistleblower requirements to remove the need for firsthand knowledge to file a complaint and introduced a new form ahead of the Ukraine whistleblower's filing.

The inspector general’s office said the form the whistleblower used is the same as the office has had since May 24, 2018, noting that it went into effect just a few days after Inspector General Michael Atkinson took over, saying, “although the form requests information about whether the complainant possesses first-hand knowledge about the matter about which he or she is lodging the complaint, there is no such requirement set forth in the statute” and noted that, under the governing Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, anyone in the intelligence community who wants to report an urgent concern “need not possess first-hand information in order to file a complaint or information with respect to an urgent concern.”

Since Atkinson took over in May 2018, his office has not rejected the filing of any alleged urgent concern due to a whistleblower’s lack of first-hand knowledge of the allegations, according to the statement.

Interesting piece on a second whistleblower, this one pointing to the IRS and Trump's tax returns.

Pompeo is especially egregious because he spent last week claiming he hadn't had time to read the whole WB complaint but trying to push the "second hand knowledge" line -- all the while he himself was hiding his own first hand knowledge of the call.

It's amazing how this one call and WB managed to draw into the net the most sneaky Trump guys like Barr, Pompeo, and (incoming) Pence.

[quote]Is Susan Collins concerned yet?

8.2 on the Richter scale.

Uh, Lawrence O’Donnell just explained why no one can actually commit treason when we are not at war because they would have to wage war against the US or aid and abet an enemy (from a country we are at war with). Since we are not at war with anyone.....

Background to the ICIG statement in R518 is that Trumpists claimed the form requires that the WBs have first hand knowledge of events.

The ICIG debunks this claim.

YOu know, it's one thing to have crazy Rudy, self described personal attorney, running around Europe strong arming the president s of various countries, but sending Barr and Pompeo along with Sebastian Gorka to Europe, that's just too much. Really. This is the fucking attorney General and the fucking Secretary of State and they have managed along with the Orange Turd, to totally embarrass us and devalue the stature of the very offices they hold. This is so disgusting, so amateur hour, so destructive of our credibility and standing among the nations of the world. They don't even value their country. Or the positions they hold. I hope they rot in hell and the sooner the better.

We aren't at war with anyone? Ha. We're at war with everyone. Does it have to be a declared war because we haven't done declared wars since WWII. The Cold War wasn't declared or voted on by Congress. Are you going to say that the spies during that time weren't committing treason? There is interpretation as to what defines war anymore. We'll see.

And, as far as impeachment, I hope the Democrats move a little slow on this. If they go quickly and fucking McConnell starts the trial and then promptly calls for a dismissal of all charges on a mere majority vote (which he can do...look it up, the Senate sets the rules for the trial as the trial goes on...it's really weird, but that's how it works...they can override Roberts with 51 votes on matters of evidence and procedure) and give Trump an exoneration narrative for Christmas that he can ride all the way to December. The Democrats won't survive that. They need to wait until Spring at the earliest to vote.

R523 I completely disagree. This stinks like day old shit in the Arizona sun on black asphalt. This is easy to understand and has disturbed so many. What support they had from the center-right group will evaporate. With Barr and Pompeo involved, I dare the Senate to do what you suggest. The stench of corruption will be at historic levels. Let the GOP run on that. Please!

All those men dying at the alter of a clown conman?

Well absent a formal declaration of war, we have certainly come down squarely as an ally of Ukraine and are supporting them militarily with equipment and funds to prosecute their defense against the Russian invasion. So that makes Russia our adversary and not just ours, but NATO allies too. And Trump Pompeo and Barr are acting against our national interests. So let's not parse things. I hate when the spirit of the Law is sacrificed to the letter of the Law. They have committed treason. WTF do you call it when they undermine our ability to conduct intelligence operations and discredit our Intelligence community, not just at home, but they're running around the fucking glober inviting other countries into it.

If we aren't in a huge cyber way then........

^^^War

Let’s make a deal. Tell Trump if be goes on an apology tour, we’ll let him stay as President.

First up, the Queen; Denmark; Angela Merkel; President Obama; Puerto Rico; and Cuba. Then let’s see what happens.

R524, if they go for impeachment before the 2020, McConnell will do exactly what I just described. Do you know how I know that? McConnell said that's exactly what he would do. They will start the trial. They will make a motion to dismiss all charges. They will vote. It will be over. Then, twenty thousand new scandals will quickly take over the narrative. There will be no repercussions for the Repugs just as there have been no repercussions for their criminally undemocratic, unconstitutional behavior concerning Merrick Garland.

The Centrist Repugs (what are there, three of them?) won't do shit except express their concerns. As long as their vote won't make a difference, they might vote to continue the trial but it won't matter. I'm really wondering where some of you have been for the last three/four years while McConnell has broken the Senate in every imaginable way.

There doesn't need to be treason for someone to conspire against the country.

R529 Let them. That is the best possible scenario! Let them run on letting blatant corruption and sleazy politics have the day above country. Fuck what McConnell will do. He owns this if he does as you say. I DARE them. The better for the Dems. I'll take running against that any day.

R531, you don't seem to have been paying attention. Why would we not use everything in our power to get this fucker and instead race quickly to a McConnell victory? Because that's exactly what it will be. If the Democrats go too soon, this will not be an election issue. It will be fucking forgotten within a month. It will turn into an asterisk in history.

Yeah, R531 is correct. The Dems will then sweep in Nov 2020 and Mitch might even lose his own job. If Trump does not get a full and fair trial, the Dems will win big in the fall. For both sides, this is a big gamble.

The "high crimes and misdemeanors" at issue don't necessarily include treason (which Trump is in a strict sense not guilty of, traitor though he is)—there are other violations at issue.

The cover up is always worse than the crime.

I'm afraid R529 might be right. But if McConnell plays that game, the Republicans will get fucked in 2020. They can kiss their majority good bye. And Andrew Johnson was impeached twice. So we can go after Trump again once we get McConnell and his cronies out of the way.

R536, your scenario would require the Repugs losing the Senate but Trump retaining the presidency? That will never happen.

Something tells me that McTurtle and the rest of the Rethugs aren't worried about 2020.

We all know they probably have plans A to Z on how they're going to cheat.

18 U.S.C. 794 Espionage: Death by hanging.

Conspiracy against the United States to undermine US Elections.

Fuck treason.

Trump is guilty of espionage.

[quote]Lindz is on Hannity right now babbling on about the deep state and trump being targeted by an out of control intelligence community. Also Hillary's 33,000 deleted emails.

The two show giddy, genuine affection for each other on the weeknight, Murdoch produced show. It is comforting to their obsessed viewers to observe the 'thrill and tease' of the phenomenal new Trump deputy craze of 'daddy-sharing'.

[quote]Lindz is on Hannity right now babbling on about the deep state and trump being targeted by an out of control intelligence community. Also Hillary's 33,000 deleted emails.

The two show giddy, genuine affection for each other on the weeknight, Murdoch produced show. It is comforting to their obsessed viewers to observe the 'thrill and tease' of the phenomenal new Trump deputy craze of 'daddy-sharing'.

All of this new stuff is very interesting, but the House needs to stay focused on the Ukraine call. Keep it simple. Keep it fast. Keep the Republicans off balance.

After Trump is out, the House can do a 9/11-style investigation and report on all of Trump's corruption.

Only one way to know for sure...

Whatever is in Pecker'e vault about the theatrical queen, or the videos and photos Vlad has that are similar, it can't be as stressful as this, can it? Back in early 2016 when the GOP primary campaign was happening, and the Missy was strongly critical of DJT, Vlad hacked her Email. She went on numerous junkets all over the world for years. Cameras galore, including those planted in hotel rooms. Just saying....

[quote]This stinks like day old shit in the Arizona sun on black asphalt.

Actually, that wouldn't stink much at all. Trust me on this.

With guys like Putin it's not just one single thing. He flatters, he helps you out, he bribes, he records. It's a grooming process.

[quote]Something tells me that McTurtle and the rest of the Rethugs aren't worried about 2020.

The 19 House Republicans choosing to retire before the 2020 election would seem to contradict that.

Including 4 in fucking Texas.

[quote]Democrats in South Carolina now believe that Lindsey Graham may be beatable.

It would be delicious if sucking up to Trump in order to avoid a GOP primary challenger – and, in the process, losing any shred of integrity or decency he may have once had -- made it possible for the Dems to finally unseat him.

And leave SC with (I believe for the first time in the history of the country) two African-American senators.

R547 I think two things can exist. Those retiring might be worried about something, like blackmail... Doesn't mean the party itself isworro3d and they're not planning to cheat.

^is worried.

Is it helpful to have Hillary weighing in on this? She's such a flashpoint.

They want to keep bringing her up? then Hillary can do as she damn well pleases.

Do you believe that President Trump should be impeached and removed from office?

Yes 47% No 45%

— CNN/SSRS poll

Is this thread paywalled?

Is this thread paywalled?

My guess is yes.

Not paywalled (yet).

And good for Mark Hamill. People need to continue trolling them as much as they all troll us.

He's such a Goddamn Moron.

Could the prolific Link Troll please include a short description of what you're linking for those of us who have link previews turned off so that we don't have to click on each link to see what you find so crucial that you have to flood the thread?

TIA

JFC that face is truly frightening.

[quote]Could the prolific Link Troll please include a short description of what you're linking for those of us who have link previews turned off so that we don't have to click on each link to see what you find so crucial that you have to flood the thread?

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

^Fuck the WSJ, seriously.

Their opinion section is straight out of Hannity's ass. One wonders if the writers are paid by the WH. It is strange because the rest of the paper is actually center/left-center

Link to new thread for when this one maxes out.

Agree, R588.

Well, that should be in about 5 minutes at the rate the Prolific Link Troll is going.

Put your big boy pants on and turn your links on. The world ain't gonna revolve around your sensitivities!

Link to new thread for when this one maxes out.

Closing

this

thread

out

I have my links on. I'd still like some idea of why the poster thinks his link is worthwhile before I click.

Link to new thread below:

Thread Closed.

Link to new thread:

If you have your links on, then read and decide for yourself. If it's not "worthy" enough for you... you know, move on.

Link to new thread:

This is interesting. Barr's contacts ànd recent history prior to becoming AG may need to be examined. Something is very strange about all this.

Link to new thread:

Link to link