Simone Biles makes gymnastics history

She's gonna need a cane when she's older.

She's incredible.

Amazing! She's really pushing the difficulty level and boundaries of the sport!

Weak!

uh... you're about a month late reporting this OP

Yeah, I thought the news sounded familiar.

when are the world championships?

She's one of the few gymnasts who I see having a biopic made about her years from now.

R7, they're being held in October.

FANTASTIC. She’s a star.

Is this person a Biological Woman?

She was in the news recently because her gang banging brother killed 3 people.

R12, my understanding of that is that she didn't grow up with that brother. Doesn't reflect on her at all. Just goes to show how different and at what extreme ends even siblings can be.

Three people! What can justify someone killing three people?

I hope she performs the moves at Worlds.

R14 There was a fight at a New Years Eve party and he pulled out a gun and started shooting.

So the brother is an accurate sharpshooter while the sister jumps over poles.

Look at me everybody! I need attention desperately.

Come back when you can do a quad you fat bitch

R15, she has to perform the skills at Worlds to get them named after her, I believe.

The brother is going for a triple...murder conviction.

Well she annoys the white alt-right racists, so she's got that going in her favor.

It's sad that the brother she didn't really grow up with keeps popping into the conversation about her recently no matter what she accomplishes.

Damn! Some of you bitches are just mean and not even in a funny way.

I'm glad Simone is kicking the Russians asses. They used to be the best of the best. Now they just suck.

I don’t like her. I can’t pinpoint what it is but she’s not my favorite.

R26, her gymnastics or her?

[quote] I'm glad Simone is kicking the Russians asses. They used to be the best of the best. Now they just suck.

Sort of like their shitty country.

The Russian male gymnasts are still good and quite hot.

We already know.

Does she have more medals than any other gymnast yet?

Figure skaters are boring, R19. They just do the same fucking triple jumps over and over and then fall on their asses.

r31

I think she is tied currently with Svetlana Khorkina

I think the all-time leader in gymnastics medals (for both Worlds and Olympics) is Larisa Latynina of the USSR. She has 32 to Simone's 25, but Simone has a good shot at topping that.

Well, Simone nailed her two very difficult skills at the World Championships -- so she gets these skills named after her now.

Do you guys enjoy this current era of gymnastics or do you long for the days of Shannon Miller, Kerri Strug and the Dominiques?

R36, I prefer the gymnastics of the '90s. It was cleaner, more exciting, competitive, elegant, and the quality was better. You never knew who was going to win and one fall or wobble meant losing out on a medal.

That said, I do admire the insane difficulty that Biles is throwing down and how she is pushing the sport -- performing skills that were once thought nearly impossible.

R36, aside from shrinking team sizes, I am enjoying this generation of gymnasts more than those of the Miller era. It has taken me time to warm to Simone (Raisman fan here), but love watching her now. I hope Biles finally does the Weiler full in UB finals. Anyone know how hard the skill is?

Other than Biles, who else is Olympic bound for 2020? I really haven't followed this sport in years.

Amphetamine makes people do some crazy shits.

R39, I thought Morgan Hurd was a shoo-in but she didn't even make this year's world championships ! I hope she makes it to 2020 because she's worked hard for Team USA all quad long and she's a former world champion.

I only follow the sport loosely for Olympics and world championships so I'm no expert though.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r42

it's only the beam dismount that is under valued

She is absolutely amazing.

The execution on floor and vault was not her best, but she was very good on bars and balance beam. Even she is not the most elegant gymnast on the balance beam she is the only one i'm comfortable watching because she incerdibly secure.

I loved Sunisa Lee, she has plenty of room for improvement but with the exception of the mistake on balance beam, she was fantastic.

The superiority of the american team is too clear to have some emotion to know who will win gold.

And i'm happy Spain will be on the Olympics after 16 years, and i'm glad Roxana Popa is back, her terrible balance beam exercise prevent her from making the final, but she is in the floor final which is huge. She was semi retired after so many injuries.

So Simone has no competition, does she? Is there anybody at all who can beat her?

r45

There is no real competition for Simone in AA, VT or FX unless she makes a mistake. She made a unusual mistake in VT prelims and lost .3 that she has never made before in competition. She could win beam if she hits but unless there are LOTS of mistakes, she should not get a Bars medal this year

She'll win on vault if she make the Biles (and doesn't fall like last worlds).

Silver will be interesting, but i think Sunisa Lee is the strong favourite, bronze should be between Melanie de Jesus dos Santos and Melnikova.

I still don't understand Japan's decision of not letting Murakami compete, they really deserved the bad results they got

Gymnastics experts, can someone explain why Morgan Hurd was left off the team despite finishing 4th at Nationals? What are her chances for making Tokyo?

r48

she was having some trouble with UB which had she hit in the last couple of meets, she probably would have made at least the traveling team... she might have been made alternate still though. She did not have a great lead up to worlds sadly.

Morgan needs to up her game if she wants to make it to Tokio. Emma Malabuyo and Mailee O'Keefe failed (mostly due to injuries) to translate their great junior results into senior stardom, but Sunisa Lee did it.

Morgan downgraded some of her exercises, maybe that was a good idea because she was failing on the execution, but she needs to add more difficulty and good execution to compete. Unlike others (Riley McCusker failed big time when she had the opportunity to shine) Morgan is able to compete at the big stages, but the competence on the american team is terrible

Dang, Simone is 22?!!!!?!!!! Back in the day, a 22 year old in gymnastics was considered ancient and passed her prime, yet this girl is still at the height of her powers. It's really amazing how much sports medicine and fitness have advanced so much that older athletes cam still dominate their sports and compete against athletes half their age. Look at Serena Williams, Roger Federer and Tom Brady among others.

According to this article, Simone says she is definitely retiring after Tokyo and admits her body has taken a beating. I guess she figures she has reached the peak of the sport and has little else to accomplish.

Thanks for that article R52. Simone makes it look so easy, but all that tumbling takes a toll on the body.

Well, Chusovitina is 44 and she could have make it to the vault finals if she didn't fail in her second vault (by the way she got the qualification for Tokio in the AA)

R54, that's amazing. Hasn't she been to every Olympics since 1992?

Yes, she is amazing

I wonder if Biles got bored having no real competition? Even the very best athletes always seem to say that they enjoy some healthy rivalry which pushes them to improve themselves.

r57

I would agree... Simone didn't have a medal on UB and she worked really hard last year and got the silver but this year her bars are much worse

As a kid I hated how snobbish the Russians, Romanians and Chinese seemed towards American gymnasts. I get a kick that they all suck now and the American gymnasts completely dominate the sport even if they are still powerful little stumps with little artistry.

Yeah R59, as someone who hasn't followed gymnastics in years, it's cool seeing the scene all topsy turvy with the Americans being the best and the Russians/Romanians/Chinese sucking. I guess the current figure skating scene is like how gymanstics used to be.

I miss the Romanian gymnasts being competitive. As much as I want to see the US gymnasts succeed, I want to see a competitive battle as well. I guess after Simone retires, there will be more parity?

R61 I doubt it , the 7th best American gymnast is probably still better than the very best Russian and Romanian gymnast. There is is a reason they keep making olympic gymnastics teams smaller and smaller,other countries are having difficultly finding more than 4 capable gymnasts.

R62, I'm surprised China is not more competitive? They have all of the facilities and state-backed funding to be a powerhouse like the former Soviet Union, but they only won team gold that one time, and since then? Not much, it seems.

China has not a good system to chose their gymnast. They go all for the specialist and not for the AA gymnasts. They are changing their gymnasts all the time and that means the best ones don't have that much experience when it comes to the big stage.

That and the fact that the poor girls are so pressured that there's a tendency to crumble at the worst moment.

Anyway, the situation with Russia and China is very different than Romania's situation. Russia needs a new Mustafina, but Melnikova after a rocky start is quite solid in her last competitions and she is able to lead the team. China has good gymnast, and the one who did better on the team qualification is really young.

Romania just doesn't matter anymore. Right now is not that they are not competitive against USA, China and Russia, it's that they are behind Spain.

If Iordache was healthy, they could keep the charade that they are a top team like they did at the London Olympics. But their new gymnasts are unable to hold their nerves, people criticied Ponor's return but without Catalina, Romania would be totally irrelevant in recent years.

They keep producing good juniors, but lately they are not having any luck once they become seniors

In this years junior world championships Russia dominated the competition, team gold, gold and silver on the AA, gold in UB, BB and floor, silver on UB and bronze on BB and floor.

While only Kayla di Celo got medals for the USA (gold on vault and bronze on BB), she was fourth on the AA and the team was bronze.

But i doubt this will mean a change of circle

Being tiny has some advantages for a gymnast.

When do we find out who makes the Olympic Team ? Isn't it like March or April of 2020 ?

Or even later

The Olympic Team Trials will be at the end of June in St. Louis.

Forgive my ignorance, but can someone explain what's changed with Romania, Russia and China's programs that's led to this decline? Is it changing geopolitical fortunes or maybe aging coaches or something? I know the Bela Karolyi's of the world are too old now to create new champions. It's just so weird to me that these former powerhouse have collapsed like this.

R69, I'm no expert, but under the old communist, Iron Curtain governments, I believe the Russian (Soviet) and Romanian gymnastics programs were centralized, funded by the government, with pretty state of the art gym equipment and coaching. After communism fell, the government stopped funding the gymnastics programs and the best coaches fled to the west for more lucrative opportunities. There's also less incentive for parents to put their kids into gymnastics, as it is an expensive sport, and the governments are no longer paying for training.

China's decline is a mystery. They have a robust economy and I believe their model is still government-funded, so they should be a powerhouse.

Russia and China didn't decline.

China always made the same mistakes in terms of the all around competition, Shang Chungsong could be a great competitor if she was better on vault, but they are very good on UB and BB. Russia's problem was that after Mustafina and Komova they really hadn't any top AA contender, but last year Melnikova rose her level and started to compete well and she lead the team. Anyway, even with Khorkhina, Russian never was the Soviet Union

Both are very competitive teams, unfortanately for them Simone Biles makes all the difference, but even without Simone (like Hurd showed in 2017, even when the top american was Ragan Smith) americans are right now the clear dominators.

I don't know what happened with Romania (i suppose they don't put that much money in their gymnastics anymore), but the fact that a top gymnast like Iordache was injured a lot of time made everything fall apart. Crisan and Golgota were top juniors, but they underperform everytime they reach a big competition, so the future doesn't look bright for what it was the dominant team after the soviet union dissapeared (and the only one who was really able to compete during the soviet domination)

Thanks R70 and R71. That makes a lot of sense.

Thanks appreciate info from More knowledgeable people. I have been a casual fan of usa gymnastics since a kid, I was a Vannessa Atlee fan and watched her on starting over ( anyone remember that?) it’s crazy how a gymnast can go from national champion to not even making an olympic team a few years later.

After Tokyo, she will probably be the most decorated gymnast of all time.

[quote] it’s crazy how a gymnast can go from national champion to not even making an olympic team a few years later.

Not really, R73. It happens. Especially when the other bitches won't let you touch their springboards.

I'd be more impressed with Biles if she could manage to do her passes while staying in bounds.

R74 she would be already if it wasn’t for the stupid gymnastics age rule, believe she missed being eligible for the London games by just a few months

R76 she does more difficult things that those gymnasts ever did though.

R78, it's possible some of those gymnasts could have attempted some harder skills, but with the old 10.00 system, I think there was no incentive to do more than necessary. Biles is one of a kind though.

R78, incorrect. Some of the skills Biles does were being done back then, (ie, Double layout, full out, Full out on Beam, etc). However, as R79 pointed out, because of the scoring system, there was no incentive to push yourself to do the harder skills as it rarely helped push you to the top of the pack.

If Simone were competing back in the 90s, she would have been left in the dust by others with better form or artistry or who could stay in bounds. She also wouldn't have had the luxury of extra time to train new skills because she'd have to train compulsories and of course she's also benefited from better equipment which allows her to do what she does now.

I like Simone though, but I do think the rules have got to change. If you fall off the equipment or go out of bounds, the deduction should be much more severe. Previously, if you did either one of those things, you were essentially out of the running for a medal... they need to figure out a way to do the same now.

R80 You sound oike one of those snobs that preferred those soviet “ballerina” /gymnasts. Simone can stay in bounds, don’t be ridiculous.

Like*

No, I'm just right.

And count how many times she doesn't.

Neither the Soviets nor were Ballerina Gymnasts a thing in the 90s.

That lillia girl was the rage for her ballet like artistry... elfie would cum watching her.

R73 I remember Vanessa Atler. She had a lot of promise, but her nerves got the best of her. I think I even caught her on an episode or two of "Starting Over." Funny, I haven't thought about that chick in years until reading this thread.

Elfie was a moron. And Lilia was not a "Ballerina gymnast." She was short and stocky just like her fellow gymnasts. The only thing "balletic" about her was her pointed toes.

If you look at 96, the only gymnast that could be deemed, "balletic," would be the likes of Jaycie Phelps.

R87 = Jaycie Phelps

Also the point about gymnasts being hindered by the 10.0 system is clear when you look at Tatiana Gutsu.

In 91 she was throwing a full twisting double layout as a mount and dismounted a double layout on floor. She was throwing a double twisting Yurchenko on vault and had additional difficulty in her beam (which was already way above a 10.0).

By the time the Olympics rolled around she opted to water down all her routines because it wasn't worth the risk to throw them. Still amazing was that her watered down routines were still far more difficult than most of the rest of the competition.

R88 = Amanda Borden.

Grab that vagina on TV again.

How in the heck was Jaycie Phelps balletic, lol?

Speaking of Gutsu, who thinks Miller was robbed of the AA gold in the '92 Olympics?

Jaycie's body type was the closest to "balletic." Then again, I forgot about Amy Chow... not that anything else about her could be considered balletic.

R92, not me. Gutsu earned it, albeit getting into the AA rather unfairly at the expense of her teammate Galieva. But head to head, she performed just a little better than night.

Miller wasn't robbed. They were both heavily overscored.

If you want to talk about robbed, go look at Mo Huilan. She should have at least been the silver medalist.

Gutsu certainly got in unfairly, however, the 3 per country rule has always seemed ridiculous (obviously the 2 per rule is even more ridiculous).

Qualifications for the AA or Events should never be a part of the team competition anyway.

I have to say, I always found it laughable that Galieva could ever have even thought she had a chance to compete in the AA. Also laughable was the bullshit story the Russians keep telling about how they considered pulling Boginskaya... no they didn't.

Miller was robbed. That cunt Gutsu shouldn't have been in the competition. They lied. Yes, they were both under or over scored at points but Miller beat her. Miller had two 10 vaults at the end and neither received that score. Gutsu beat her by the closest margin ever. Since they were both under/over scored earlier, Miller beat the bitch on vault. Miller was robbed of the gold.

I do like the gymnastics is actually jaw dropping now. That is how it SHOULD be. However, I do think the penalty for falling or going out of bounds should be higher. You shouldn't fall off and still get a medal for that event.

r90 speaking of Borden I could not stop staring at her crotch as a gayling, that thing looked abnormally large.

I've always loved that still of Borden. Look at those muscles!

R99 her vagina was so large because she bashed it on National TV and then clutched it in her hands for even more attention!

R86 The only reason I watched starting over was for Vanessa. I alway felt bad for her complete lack of self esteem( I wonder if she was one of the girls molested by nassar) I know she developed an eating disorder from Liuken. I remember there was an older woman on that show that went there to learn to drive and everyone thought she was crazy and needed more help than just learning to drive.

R102, Vanessa has said that Nassar never tried any of that stuff with her.

When I was growing up I used to see Vanessa practically all the time on the weekends when visiting family. She lived in the same town as some family members. This was when she was still training. She'd always be by herself at the mall, bookstore, ice cream shop, and she always looked like she was ready to burst into tears.

Shannon Miller was about as exciting to watch as a box of tampons.

Shannon deserved a .5 deduction for those screeching violins and another point off for her damn scrunchies.

Shannon was annoying. She was always crying and by 1996 she was FAT!

The problem with Biles is that she has no grace. She moves like a mack truck. Toes flexed, ugly turns and leaps.

R107, there are quite a few American gymnasts in that same vein -- Mary Lou, Shawn Johnson, etc. They can pull off extreme difficulty without much of the grace. Simone is cleaner than most of these type of gymnasts, and I do admire their difficulty and athleticism.

This is the woman Simone is chasing for most decorated gymnast of all time. Uhh, gymnastics was just a little less difficult back then. Very graceful though.

R92: I love Miller, but the difficulty of Gutsu routines was way above her time.

It's true that Biles wouldn't be remotely as dominant in the 80's or the 90's, but Shushunova never was considered artistic (to be fair her 88 routine was way more interesting, and kamikaze, than nowaday's routines)) and she was the dominant gymnast in the late 80's. Biles can stuck her landings, the problem is the enormous difficulty of her tumbling. Her problem would be artistry. She is not an elegant gymnast, but she is very secure (she is the only one i can watch on balance beam without being nervous).

Till the change of the rules there was no incentive to go further, Gina Gogean is the perfect example, she did just enough to the routine be considered a ten and absolutely nothing more and she was very successful at doing it, in terms of medal she is the most successful romanian gymnast, of course nobody will considered right now at the level of Comanecci or Silivas.

The floor changed a lot, a double double is way easier to do right now that it was in the 80's

ON one hand i think the new system is better, but on the other i think fail should be more penalized, sometimes it seems a bad execution of a difficult skill is worthier than a good execution of an easier skill. And one think is failing a skill you dominate (on competition there are nerves and the posibility of failing is always there) and other executing skills badly again and again and again in every competition, that's a sign the gymnast doesn't dominate the skill at all

Amazing bronze for the italian team. They have a very young team, Giorgia Villa was supposed to be a star since very young, she had some problems with injuries but here she really lead the team to get what nobody expected with great performances.

A lot of fails on balance beam and Liu tingting basically lost the options of medal for China on the uneven bars (the fact that two of the chinese failed on the balance beam didn't help either).

Sunisa Lee needs to stop failing from the balance beam, she one again was very good on all apparatus but failed again on balance beam.

And i think Simone will win the competition just on vault. Even if she chose a Cheng and not her signature vault. It's been a while since the last time other big AA competitors have at least an Amanar (like Komova and Mustafina before the injury, or fellows, Douglas, Wiever and Raismann). The competition will be full of DTY

[quote]The competition will be full of DTY

Which goes to show that difficulty really hasn't gone up since the 90s, figuring that gymnasts were doing the DTY nearly 30 years ago.

And then was way more difficult because vault was way more dangerous back then.

Of course, 30 years ago it was the most difficult vault, right now it's far from being the most difficult, the difference is that with the exception of Biles there's not AA gymnast that are really good on vault.

I think only Melnikova has a vault with more than a 5.4 score

Well, this article is claiming that Simone is officially the most decorated gymnast of all time. I don't think that's yet true if you're counting world and Olympic medals though. Latynina has 32. Simone has 26 now. But I think Simone will overtake her.

Doh. The article.

The trouble R115 is that none of it is context. Latynina has 32, and the sport was obviously a lot easier back then. However, I don't believe Latynina had as many opportunities to win medals as Biles has now.

[quote] the sport was obviously a lot easier back then.

Definitely. I mean, look at this bars routine. It's like a different sport.

Even if Simone did just a DTY, she would still win... fuck she could do a FTY and win still

So why is it pre-determined that Simone will win? Is it because her Difficulty Score on each apparatus is just so head and shoulders above everybody else that nobody is in the same orbit?

Yes, R120. And unfortunately, the way the scoring is now, her routines are designed so that she can fall two or three times on each event and still win.

That's just one of the reasons they need to adjust the deductions for falling and going out of bounds.

R121, yeah, I don't know how I feel about pre-determined athletes winning just because they have high difficulty-scores. People shouldn't be able to win medals falling all over the place (I'm not saying Simone does this).

She is incredible. I know she would have had more competition in the 90’s but she would probably still win a lot.

Whenever I hear her mentioned on the news, it sounds like they are saying "Simone Weil," and I think, "Didn't she die in a concentration camp decades ago?"

One of the most difficult beam routines.

I'm curious as to what makes that beam routine one of the most difficult (aside from the dismount). Everything else seems pretty standard, no?

Gutsu's beam routine from 1992 (again minus the dismount) seems more difficult.

[quote]People shouldn't be able to win medals falling all over the place (I'm not saying Simone does this).

R122

Here's an example of how Simone can fall off and still win the title.

Oh shove it, after decades of these little soviet bitches not sticking their landings and winning it all anyway it’s an Americans turn.

Does Simone ever acknowledge the gay community? As far as I know, she doesn’t, so why would I care about her?

[quote]Oh shove it, after decades of these little soviet bitches not sticking their landings and winning it all anyway it’s an Americans turn.

Uh, what the hell are you talking about?

Those Soviet whores were insufferable. Glad their domination is long over.

Simone has generally good landings and great form. To me she looks great while doing her thing. She is amazing to watch. GOAT.

R131 Agreed I wonder why some one here is trying to discredit Miss Biles.

Please, no one is trying to discredit Biles.

R132 There is a huge contingent of Russian Gymnast lovers here. They hate when an American dominates them. Like the Gutsu troll. Gutsu, the cheater, still got beat. Those International judges fucked Shannon on her final 2 perfect vaults. If you listen to the call from other countries, they all say it was perfection and there were no deductions they could see even in slow mo.

One person said they thought Gutsu deserved to win. No one here said Miller didn't do perfect vaults...

And the only thing said about Gutsu today was questioning the difficulty compared to Biles. That has nothing to do with whether or not she or the Russians are cheaters (they are).

I hate Gutsu, the Russians, and Miller, so there.

Dominique Dawes is where it's at!

^signed Kelly Hill

Miller was the first to be so solid and stick her routines. She was great and kept it at that level for so long. We were use to seeing our greats crash and burn but she didn't and the '92 AA was thrilling. She will always have a place in my heart for that and her triumphant Beam Gold in '96 while leading the team to Gold.

I give Shannon credit for controlling herself and not slapping Kerri hard across the face.

Miller kept the team together in 1996 when they started faltering esp on the beam. She went up and nailed her routines. Her landings were spot on. The team rallied from that point on.

Biles aside as she is in another realm, Raisman really impressed me. She, like Miller, was just solid. You could depend on her. And she was really good like Miller. Getting fucked out of a bronze in the Olympics before on a technicality, she came back even better. She was dominant.

I am still mad Maroney didn't get the Vault gold with her unbelievable skills.

No, R140, IM the one that steadied the team on Beam, thank you very much.

And IM the one that won it for the US!!!

Wait, all this talk about cheating, and no one is going to bring up how Miller cheated her way on to two Olympic teams and tried it at a third?!?!

^meaning the 92 Trials.

Kerri didn't win anything. It was already won. Miller followed the rules. Mocenau did not steady the team- Miller did.

[quote]Kerri Strug

Bitch! You almost lost it for the US. Béla Károlyi should have slapped you with a wet towel across the face for chocking on your first vault!!!

Does anyone else miss elfie?

R146, Kerri WON IT FOR AMERICA!!!

I liked the british announcers better than Big Mo, closet Mo, and Nastia.

Miller didn't steady the team on beam. She was second to last up. She did her job, and nailed it like she would have. Dominique went up after her, and did the same, just like she would have.

Floor and Vault were going to be no brainers for the team.

Elfie was awful, but I somehow hate her less than I hate Nastia.

I forgot that Jaycie fell off.

What was the lineup?

Phelps, Borden, Strug, Dawes, Miller, Moceanu?

I thought Miller went last for some reason.

Why isn't this girl a medalist ? Can one of you who understands scoring far better than I explain?

Meanwhile, in the men's gymnastics, Team USA finished 7th after qualifying. How is it that USA women's ranking and medal haul has improved so much but the US men have always been second-rate?

Gymnastics is one of the few sports in which I enjoy watching the women over the men. I have never cared for men's gymnastics.

R155: Well, the japanese are exactly the opposite, they are way better in men's gymanstics and they were for decades.

Biles would struggle in the 80's or 90's. She has a great form, but her advantage would be zero, and she will be penalized for her artistry on balance beam and floor.

Curiously i think she would be like Gutsu in the sense that she would take some unnecesary risks, just because she needs that thrill of making difficult exercises.

And no, Gutsu didn't cheat, it was her team the one that did it, she has zero chances to open her mouth about it (the same for the poor Roza Galyeva). Gutsu was way ahead her time, and it was a pity that her career was so short.

1992 was probably the best Olympic final ever, with a lot of great gymnasts doing their best

Men's gymnastics is better in that there is so much gorgeous eye candy, especially on the Russian and Italian teams.

R157 I think the difference would be that Biles would do the difficulty because she wanted to. Gutsu seemed to do them because she was forced to.

I do wonder how far Biles would have gotten under the old scoring system where basically the difficulty would not be of any advantage to her. And as has already been mentioned, I wonder if she could even have attempted any of it with the old equipment and if she had to train compulsories. I also wonder if having to compete compulsories, where they were required to qualify for any finals, would have held her back in any way.

If Biles were competing in the 90s she would have been lucky if she were even named to a Pan American team.... because Bela would have managed to find a way to keep her out of every major event.... Unless he was her coach.

(And if Bela were her coach, she'd be relegated to doing full-ins and the standard, ie, the bare minimum).

[quote]Why isn't this girl a medalist ? Can one of you who understands scoring far better than I explain?

To answer your question, R154... it's because Finals haven't taken place yet.

The truth is people love Flavia, because she has that old charisma that makes people engage in her routines.

The journalists commenting in Spain are constantly gushing about the artistry of the Russians till i get sick of it. Sorry, but Melnikova is not Khorkhina, and none of the routines on floor have the charm of the 1985 Omelianchik.

I remember back in the 2017 they were gushing on Eremina's floor while dismissing Hurd's, when the truth is Morgan is way more artistic than Eremina (i like Elena but she has the same problem than Mustafina, they seem incredibly sad all the time)

Simone does ridiculously difficult stuff with very good form. Simone is not graceful or balletic, but rather a power gymnast. She could never have the grace of Nastia Liukin, but Nastia would never be able to perform the skills that Simone does. A triple-double tuck on Floor--most men can't do that. Simone's double twisting double tuck as her beam dismount is insane. No one thought a skill like that could ever be done. Too bad the FIG didn't rate it as high as it should be.

I've gotten used to the way the scores are now with difficulty and execution being separate. As other posters have observed, back in the day under the 10.0 system, someone doing something crazy difficult would be scored the same as someone doing an easier routine because both were out of a 10.0. I think it made it easier for the judges to put their favorites ahead of everyone else. Now difficulty is usually rewarded, unless bitch cunt Nellie Kim, President of the Women's Technical Committee, downgrades things. She even removed some skills from the code and named others after her even though she wasn't the first to perform them.

The Russians and the Russian fans are insanely jealous of the US. Now the US women dominate the way the old Soviet Union did, and all without cheating. I remember in the infamous boycotted 1980 Olympics, the Russians ripped off Nadia Comaneci of a second All Around gold by lowballing some of her scores. Bella went insane. The rest of the world wasn't paying attention, though, because of the boycott. Too bad. Romania and the Soviet Union were the best of the best back then. I think it especially irks the Russians that the US women win without cheating.

[quote] but Shushunova never was considered artistic (to be fair her 88 routine was way more interesting, and kamikaze, than nowaday's routines)) and she was the dominant gymnast in the late 80's.

I wish Silivas had won the 88 AA over Shushunova.

I think the new score system is better but in my opinion mistakes need to be more punished. Not Simone's case but some gymnast execute a very hard skill but with bad form and without finishing the movement because they know the difficulty will compensate the deductions.

One thing is failing a skill you mastered and other very different execute something you know you are not doing well because it gets you a better score

R167: Silivas lost due to her signature skill. The execution was not the best on the qualifications and back them you start the final with the score of the qualifications. Shushunova was a way better vaulter than Silivas, so the result was not unexpected.

The classic two consecutive tens on floor made that competition thrilling. Silivas routine was amazing (even with the hideous music) but i always prefered Shushu's routine (i know i'm on the minority), that exercise was so crazy that at least two skills were banned not long after

R166 you're not alone, I preferred Shushonova's Floor to Silivas'.

OK, I have to disagree. I loved Silivas' Disco Mozart floor. So engaging and so much charisma -- one of the all-time greats. I might give her a minus-tenth for the unfortunate fro though.

Well, 88 was not known for the good hairstyles. The whole romanian team had terrible hairstyles (probably minus Dobre) and Shushunova hairstyle wasn't an inspired moment either.

Silivas had charisma and the routine was amazing but the Mozart goes techno was too much for me (in fact most of the romanian team had awful music in their floor routines).

It was a pity that Dobre was not at 100%

[quote] I have to say, I always found it laughable that Galieva could ever have even thought she had a chance to compete in the AA.

How would Galieva have fared in the AA?

R170 She would have lost to Miller. As Gutsu should have.

[quote] because Bela would have managed to find a way to keep her out of every major event.... Unless he was her coach.

I wonder how Miller and Dawes managed to do so well without Bela's sabotage or jealousy mucking things up for them? I wonder if he tried to swoop in and steal either of them at any point from their coaches.

R172 He did try but was unsuccessful. Both of them had strong coaches who didn't take any shit. And they were too good to sabotage.

The 80s were the best period in women's gymnastics. Grace and artistry reigned.

Today, it's all about ugly wolf turns and unpainted toes.

R173 I always got the sense that Bela's girls got all of the attention in Atlanta, with Moceanu being the new It Girl and Kerri being credited for winning the gold with her vault. But without Miller (highest compulsories score) and Dawes (highest optionals score), would there have been gold?

R174, I missed seeing '80s gym in real-time but have really come to appreciate it with Youtube. There are some '70s routines that are pretty amazing as well. Mostly everything before Olga was very boring though, IMO.

BYW, the hunky Russian men won today! My fav gymnast is the stylish, elegant, and twinkish David Belyavsky.

R175 They did by design. Miller and Dawes were headed for the podium, esp Miller, in the AA until mistakes on floor cost them. The gold would have been closer without them, for sure. Both were always solid for the US.

Alexei Nemov, in his prime, was the hottest fucking thing on TV. Looks and charisma for days.

Gymnastics should not be all about grace and artistry. It is not slow-mo dancing. They rightfully started doing more actual athletic skills later on.

Galieva would have probably finished in the top 12, but not in the top 8.

And no, Bela never tried to swoop in and take either Miller or Dawes. He would not want them in his program. They did not have the psyche to train with him. To him, they were both probably cry babies who needed to be coddled. Bela didn't have time for that shit.

Also, he actually liked and respected Dawes.

R175, yes, Dawes and Millers were integral to the team's success, however, what made that team unique was that they needed every single one of them in order to get the Gold. Without Dawes and Miller on that team... no gold. However, if you had Dawes and Miller, and tried to swap out any of the rest of the team with other members from the National Team? No Gold either.

R179 He would have killed to have either of them. No, they did not have what it took for HIS style of training. Both were badass and tough, though. Miller was hurt most of the time after 92 yet still won 2 consecutive World AA titles, one while very sick.

Also, to answer the question about how Dawes and Miller were able to rise to the level they did, well, first, they're obviously very talented, but Bela couldn't really interfere with either of them because he was out of the picture by the time those two really dominated the World Scene.

R181 Shannon basically got the Lilia treatment for two years.

But better her than that God awful, Milo.

I don't think Bela would have wanted either of them. They were too easy to break.

Shannon would have been successful at any gym, other than Karolyi's. It's telling that Nunno was unable to create any other champion.

How can we talk about fucked Silivas' fucked up floor routine but not even mention this one from her teammate?

I can't imagine what all this has done to her body. Gymnastics is a very punishing sport.

R185, I love that routine and its faux-breakdancing. It's fun. Better than Miller's screeching violin music.

R187 it's both awesome and hysterical.

I loved it too R187. I miss the artistry and creativity of old school floor routines.

Gymnastics is punishing yet there is that 44 year old still going at it and at an elite level. Gotta love her! Out of all the sports, she is still at it in her mid-40's on the Olympic level and doing well.

I was 11 during the 96 Olympics. Alexei Nemov was one of the first I ever had intense sexual feelings for. I knew I was gay before but I had never experienced sexual feelings like that.

Miller would not have been broken by Bela but she wouldn't have put up with his shit. She would have left to find another gym. Miller had even more potential yet she was hurt a lot of her career.

I understand the 44 year old stays in gymnastics as a way to support her family.

R191 Well, yeah, but most would do it except they can't. She can want all she wants but she actually is still competitive at her age.

Oksana Chusovitina is a genetic freak. It's miraculous that she's still doing this at 44. Does she still compete in all the routines or is she just a vault specialist at this point?

[quote]Miller would not have been broken by Bela but she wouldn't have put up with his shit.

HAHAHA.

R190, I loved Sexy Alexei. He was hot and had such a sunny disposition compared to his morose teammates.

R193 yes, she was training all 4 events a year ago. I'm not sure if she's competing all at this year's Worlds.

From what I recall she went a few years only training vault, which probably helped some of the wear and tear on her body.

And for 20 of the years she was competing, she was using her exact same routines from 1991.

Wow, I didn't know 80s Gymnastics was so interesting. The Rumanian FX routine was bonkers and fun.

I just assumed the 90s was the peak of Gymnastics.

[quote]Miller would not have been broken by Bela but she wouldn't have put up with his shit.

That sounds like fan fiction.

What became of Miller's coach?

R198 Except she proved over and over she was tough. She cried? That is all you have? They all cried. She was often in extreme pain yet still performed at the level she did becoming our most decorated gymnast up until recently.

You could argue Bela could get them to a certain level but they didn't often last or persevere. He was too harsh on his girls. He was great but he lacked a component to sustain them. He wore them out much quicker.

Uh, R200... she wasn't tough. She was a talented gymnast who was competitive. She cried, yes. And that would have been a big deal under Bela. Have you ever seen one of Bela's girls cry? He saw that as a weakness and he would have done his best to destroy that part of her If she had trained under Bela he would absolutely have broken her down because she would not have been able to handle the mental abuse. Nunno worked for her because he knew how to coddle her.

No one is saying Miller was less of a gymnast because she would not have survived Karolyis. The point is she was able to flourish because she WASNT at Karolyis.

And no one is saying that Karolyi was right to do it or that it made him this awesome coach, he wasn't. His over training was the downfall of all of his gymnasts. The only one he didn't break was Nadia. Every other one of his champions either barely achieved what they did or failed miserably because of injuries prior to the Olympics. He was shit at knowing how to train them so they peaked at the right time.

R201 That is exactly the point 200 was making........

R199 her beam coach went to Australia to get their program up and running and apparently, they all hate her. There was some rumbling of shady shit she did.

Nunno basically retired after Miller was done.

USA men cannot get their shit together. I fear the women will have a similar fate over the next 10 years. The women seem more inconsistent, though still dominant, than in years previous. Aly and Simone are rarities to begin with. Aly came back better than ever. Simone is a once in 3 lifetimes.

R202, I don't think so. The point seemed to be that Miller wouldn't have been broken by Bela, yeah, she would have.

She was absolutely lucky the stars aligned for her and Nunno opened his gym right near her home so she could be with her family and train with him, who was probably exactly what she needed, more of a cheerleader than an actual coach. Those are the circumstances and conditions I think she needed in order to be as successful as she was.

I think about how fate really did work in her favor, just like it did Zmeskals. The way Bela happened to buy her gym right after she started was lucky for her. Unlike Miller, who I think would have done equally well with any other coach (that wasn't Bela), I don't think the same for Kim. I'm not so sure she would have been World Champion if she had trained anywhere else.

I never thought about it but the point above is right.

Retton had a stress fracture in her leg in the weeks leading up to the Olympics. She barely haled in time.

Zmeskal had a stress fracture in her leg during the Olympics, it's one of the reasons she lost out on a medal.

Same with Moceanu, stress fracture in her leg during the Olympics.

R205 Yes, that poster was making that point. I don't think Shannon would have been broken by Bela (you can't prove that) but the point I took was she would have left his gym had she discovered he wasn't right for her. I agree. Gymnasts change coaches.

Is it true that Bela sabotaged Kerri Strug in 1992 -- telling her take out some element from a routine -- so that Kim would make the AA over her?

R207 yeah, Gymnasts change coaches and some are left destroyed and never able to recover (ahem, Jennie Thompson). Miller rings to me as someone who absolutely would have been a mess if she had to endure Bela.

No, R208. Taking the element out wasn't going to hurt Kerri and benefit Kim. Her routine was out of a 10.0 regardless.

Kim and Shannon could have medaled that in 92. Kim just had a meltdown. Shannon was peaking.

Shannon was made of tough stuff- if Bela would have coached her, she would have accommodated his style. She would not have been the gymnast she ended up being, though.

Kim didn't have a meltdown. She had a stress fracture.

But even without it, I wonder if they actually would have let her medal.

Barcelona was interesting because the three who were expected to medal, didn't... and instead the #2 on their teams did.

R213, who was the #1 in Romania?

R213 And gave us the best finish ever with a healthy dose of controversy. What has Gutsu said about Shannon since then? I know Shannon has spoken highly of her and had nothing but positive things about her.

R212 I didn't mean mentally but physically.

R214, Christina Bontas.

R185 wow was she moon walking lol I actually love it. With simone getting literally all of the attention other gymnasts really need to take more chances like that to stand out.

R217, I agree. The rest of the world's gymnasts need to step it up.

The supposed leaders were Zmeskal, Bontas and Boginskaya, but the truth is everybody that knew something about gymnastics knew that on a good day Gutsu was the one to beat

I follow Boginskaya on Instagram. She's all gymnastics camps (at which she seems really lovely), travelling with Oksana Chusovitina, bbqing meat and posing next to signs and statues. Also the occasional handstand (sometimes in a bikini! ) and the form is still perfect. She seems on very good terms with the other greats of her era- regularly photographed with Silivas and Lilia Podkopayeva. Loves her family. Seems a good sort.

Boginskaya is very underrated which is unfair, she combined great tumbling with elegance. Curiously she is probably the most popular gymnast of that era in Spain. I remember the newspapers saying she was robbed when Zmeskal was world champion (but i didn't watch that championship so i can't judge)

I've gotten that impression, too, R220. Boginskaya even gets along really well with Kim Zmeskal and laughs about how competitive they were when they were younger. She's grown up and has a good perspective about it all.

Zmeskal and Boginskaya consider one another the best of friends.

And Boginskaya even had a great come back in 1995 when she was silver on the AA on europeans (only defeated by Podkopayeva)

I was hoping Bogi would have had more success in 96 but by the time of the olympics she was exhausted

Silivas seems very friendly and happy, too -- married with kids (American dude) somewhere in Florida or Georgia, no?

They need to ban or discredit certain non-aesthetically pleasing skills. What is that skill that Simone mounts the beam with -- a wolf turn? I get that it's difficult but it looks kinda fug and like the gymnast is struggling the entire time.

What was unbelievable at the time about Boginskaya's return in 1995 is that she was already considered ancient and she came back with upgraded skills that nobody thought would have been possible for her (considering 1992).

Much of that success from 1995 she attributes to Karolyi. I was actually really surprised to hear Svetlana talk about how her first workouts with Bela made her want to die. She had never had such intense training and that work outs at Round Lake were essentially warm ups compared to the intensity of the ones Karolyi put his athletes through.

Up until she said that, I had always assumed that the Soviets training methods were similar/on par to Karolyi's.

r228

I've never heard that... interesting. The soviets used to have their gymnasts all compete double layouts for every pass to get stamina up

Zmeskal is another who is seemingly great friends with everyone she ever trained/competed with (with the exception of Moceanu). She's still best friends with Okino, takes Girl's Trips with Miller, and is very close with Boguinskaya.

Circling back to Galieva, one also has to remember that the only reason she was on that team was because she was from Uzbekistan. Had the Soviets not been forced to compete as the Unified Team, she would not have been named to that team.

I wonder if Silivas and Shush ever were friendly after

R231, wouldn't she have just competed for Uzbekistan then, like Chusovitina is now?

R233, well, I was speaking of how if the USSR had never broken up or they were competing as the Soviets, she would not have been named to the team.

If she had to compete for Uzbekistan, she probably would not have been there either as they would not have fielded a team and would most likely only would have qualified one athlete (if that) to compete - and that athlete would have been Chusovitina, not Galieva.

I think what r231 is referring to is that is there a thought that the unified team didn't want too many gymnasts from one country. They left off a Ukrainian gymnast supposedly because of this, there would have been 3 Ukrainians(I Think.... it could have been another republic).

I'm not sure if this theory was ever proven /confirmed though

Ahh, I see. It seems Ukraine provided a good chunk of talented gymnasts to the Soviet Union teams.

Biles wins another world All-Around title --her 5th one! I know, shocker.

That's very cool R231. It's nice to know that the intense competition didn't instill life-long hatred between these ladies. Do you know why Zmeskal isn't close to Moceanu? I can't remember if they actually trained together under Karolyi or if Moceanu came after Zmeskal left.

R235 it wasn't just one Ukrainian they left off but two, and possibly 3 who would have been placed on that team instead of Galieva and Grudneva, the latter who only made the tram because she was the only athlete they had around who was from Russia.

R238 yes they trained together up to the 96 Olympics when Kim was trying to make a comeback. It was Mocesnu, Bogy, Strug, and Zmeskal in the gym together. Prior to that Moceanu trained on Bela's Hopes team where they were in the gym together.

The fallout occurred because Kim was the athlete rep in 2000 I believe and her vote did not go toward helping Moceanu make the 2000 Olympics. Moceanu feels Zmeskal had no loyalty to her and is further pissed that Zmeskal doesn't back her claims of abuse.

In Zmeskals defense, Moceanu has a history of blaming every one else for her life situations, except she never holds herself or her family accountable for anything..

I don't know, but the fact that Liu Tingting didn't performed after failing big time on the team competition is quite suspicious, but Tnag Xijing made an amazing competition to win silver (and she is a very expressive girl). I'm happy Melnikova finally got her medal.

People always claim that Morgan Hurd is unreliable, but she never failed in her two world championships and she should be on the Olympics if she is in good form.

Sunisa Lee dissapointed me, but it was worse with Melanie de Jesus dos Santos and Giorgia Villa (who was amazing on the team final). At least Sunisa was able to stay in a good position

R32 Only male figure skaters are able to do quads. Female figure skaters can only do triple.

Bullshit, R243!!!!

What's wrong with gymnasts today that it seems like they're always falling all the time? I don't remember gymnasts falling so much in the '90s. And if a top gymnast did have a fall, it was treated like the end of the world (i.e. Zmeskal).

to this day, I remember the gasp in the audience when Zmeskal fell during the 1992 Olympics. It was like someone had died.

R345 because falling isn't penalized enough. Gymnasts know that they don't have to master a skill be side as long as it's worth enough points it'll outweigh any fall they have on it.

They should find some way to calculate that a fall on any event will automatically deduct 1/4 of the base score or something.

*because as long as it's worth

R245 now they are doing more difficult things and to be honest a lot of them just seem lazy and unfocused they know deep down they have no chance at beating Simone Biles anyway.

R246, or when Moceanu sat down her vaults in the Atlanta Team Final. That not only endangered the Team Gold, but it would have pushed Moceanu out of the All-Around qualifications if Kerri hadn't injured herself. Now those were thrilling days to watch gymnastics!

If you want to see Simone's routines which won her the AA, here they are.

Ms. Biles is a human whirlybird!

Whoo!

Jeez I hope for her own personal goal she tries to stick all her landings in Tokyo.

What was that again about Simone staying in bounds?

If they really want to take the sport in a better direction they absolutely need to increase the deductions for falls and out of bounds. Stepping out of bounds in the new scoring system and still only receiving a .10 deduction is ridiculous. They should increase it to something more severe like an entire point, to keep in line with the severity of stepping out back under the 10.0 system.

I bet all of the other gymnasts will be happy when she retires!

So will the Olympics next year be her last event?

R256, she claims Tokyo is her last event before retirement, and I suspect with how much she's admitted that her body has taken a beating, it probably will. That's not to say that it's entirely impossible she won't attempt a comeback later on...

R256 That's what she said in the article posted by R52.

[quote] I bet all of the other gymnasts will be happy when she retires!

Morgan Hurd somewhat expressed a similar sentiment when Simone launched her comeback this quad. I think she posted in regards to Simone something like "Bitch, it's not all about Simone, we're here too." Well, I kind of at least admire her honesty, because you know a lot of gymnasts probably share the same sentiment. Also, these are mostly teenagers, so there are probably a lot of petty resentments/drama behind the scene.

It's not her fault she can physically do stuff they wouldn't even attempt. She may not be as graceful as other gymnasts but as a powerful athlete who jumps higher and does harder skills shes incredible.

R260, I agree. Simone is in a class of her own, but as her teammates and rivals are mostly teens, it's not unusual to find that some may lack emotional maturity to be a little resentful.

In other news, I wish they had taken Morgan to Worlds. She has shown she can perform under pressure, and probably would have fared better than these other girls who have fallen, finished 8th AA.

Sunisa is very young, but she failed way more than i expected, anyway she did way better than Riley McCusker last year. For some reason (and i prefer not to think that being blonde is the factor) McCusker was the real deal and not Morgan Hurd, they trash Morgan in a lot of youtube videos while praise Riley. The simple truth is Riley was overscored on national competitions but once she compete abroad things changed dramatically.

Maybe Morgan is not totally reliable, but on world's she delivered the two years that competed.

It's not that the american team will struggle without Simone, but they will need to do great to keep winning team competitions and specially AA. Morgan was not even the favourite when she won in 2017 (to be fair Ragan Smith was)

r259

she didn't mention Biles by name if I remember correctly but people assumed it was about her though

She is not a real woman. Transgenders are real women now lol.

Does anyone know why Simone switched coaches?

The thing about Shannon Miller is on her IG she manages to make every single thing about her past glory. It's sort of funny. Any time there is any gymnastics event ever, she congratulates the participants and makes sure to include a photo throwback/flashback of her... usually on beam... usually in a handstand.

She reminds me of Tara Lipinski.

Morgan Hurd only won that title because Reagan had to pull out. I hate Reagan's gymnastics, but I feel bad for her that she missed out on her one shot like that.

R266, I will mosey on over to her instagram an take a look, LOL.

r267

agreed... Smith would have AA and probably FX titles that years

Went to Shannon's IG . She's certainly looking really different these days.

R270, lots of plastic surgery for Shannon.

Does Shannon still have bangs and a ginormous scrunchie?

No R272. She has Farrah Fawcett hair, a skinny WASP nose and chiclet veneers. She looks pretty - her surgeons did a nice job - but I wouldn't recognize her if I didn't know who she was.

Shannon looks good , especially in Comparison to Gutsu or how Retton looked 8-9 years ago. Retton looks close to 70 now, yikes. Plastic surgery really worked ,good for her.

R269: She was the clear favourite, but it's not the same doing well in the qualifications than in the final

another gold! She beat the record of Scherbo

Larisa Latynina, you in danger girl!

5 fucking golds!

What was that again about Simone staying in bounds?

Staying in bounds?

All jokes aside, Simone's floor qualification routine illustrates one of the problems in the scoring system.

Someone that goes out of bounds once, let alone twice, should maybe not make it in to the finals. The deduction is too minimal.

In the team event, she misses a connection and Daggett says something like, "That'll be a 1/10 of a point, no big deal."

And that is the problem. Because it's, "just a tenth," gymnasts are just shrugging these things off because again, as long as they're racking up points, they don't need to master a skill.

Before someone starts screeching, I'm not bashing Simone, I do actually like her for the most part, but she's the easiest gymnast to illustrate how ridiculous the scoring is. The out of bounds deduction was 1/10 of a point 30 years ago under the 10.0 system and it's still the same? It makes no sense. The deduction should be comparable under this new scoring system.

A fall should be 2.0 points in deduction.

R282

I agree with you but unless you’re Simone, the one point deduction usually takes you out of the running

LIke Sunisa Lee can prove.

I think the deduction should be bigger but not that big that encourage gymnast to not take any risks and made the exercises too simple

R283 that's essentially what the 1/10 did under the 10.0 system.

How competitive could Simone Biles be in men's highbar?

R286, probably not too competitive. Bars is her worst/least favorite event.

I can see how the bars are her least favorite event R287. The bars are more suited to those with length and gracefulness as well as athleticism. Simone seems like power and athleticism are her stronger suits which is why she's most dynamic on the floor and the vault.

Which former gymnasts could have maybe competed with Simone's difficulty level? I could see possibly Gutsu.

Maybe Kim Zmeskal? She and Simone both have enormous power, but Kim's routines were cleaner.

other than FX, Zmeskal wasn't that special

Amanar and Maroney perhaps on vault.

Yeah, as great as Zmeskal was in terms of being competitive, none of her routines were that difficult.

The gymnasts from the early 90's that would have competed with Biles for difficulty would be Gustu, Lysenko, Chusovitina, and maybe Onodi and Milosveci.

In order to address the issue of gymnasts with more difficulty not being phased by an increase in a deduction for falling or stepping out of bounds, what they could do is make the deduction a mandatory percentage off the total score. For example:

A fall: A 25% deduction off the score.

A step out: A 10% deduction off the score.

That way, the deduction would have essentially the same impact on each gymnast.

I think Dawes was capable of more difficulty than she was throwing.

I sort of don't feel the same about Dawes. I think what we saw with Dawes was exactly what she was capable of.

Isn’t she a midget?

There used to be video on Youtube from 1992 which had either Nationals or the Olympic Trials for the Unified Team. It was amazing because you could see how some of them had much more difficulty in their routines that they ended up watering down in Barcelona because most likely i tjust wasn't worth it.

I remember being most impressed with Gutsu who had a DTY and two double layouts on floor.

Here's an example of what Gutsu was training pre-Barcelona.

R293, I'm not so sure about Onodi. While gorgeous, didn't she lack some power and amplitude?

R29@ wonder if that was before that pig Scherbo raped her.

R301, yes, it would have been. According to Tatiana, it happened when she was much younger, several years before the Olympics.

Lysenko's floor pre-Barcelona... have no idea how she was able to continue through that middle pass.

Onodi already had plenty of difficulty above the majority of her competitors on each event. Certainly more difficulty than Zmeskal and Boginskaya.

Here's the competition I referenced earlier.

Jesus, I had forgotten that Gutsu was dismounting bars with a full twisting double layout.

I think she certainly doesn't get enough credit for how superior she was when it came to difficulty. Especially considering that she still had to train and compete compulsories. The level of difficulty and skills she's doing are still being done almost 30 years later.

If she were competing now, without compulsories, and on better equipment, I think she would probably be more impressive than Biles is, especially considering the stark difference in their musculature.

Perfect example of how the 10.0 system didn't reward them like they do now. I think if it had, you absolutely would have seen Gutsu throwing double doubles.

Forgot to include the link at R305.

I also love Lysenko's three layout mount and full in off beam.

Do you think Gaby Douglas is jealous?

Why would she be jealous? Doesn't she have several medals (including golds) of her own? I do feel bad for Gabby because she was subjected to horrible online bullying when she was competing. I still don't don't understand why.

Isn't Gaby too busy claiming her fellow gymnasts who were molested were sluts who dressed like they wanted it?

Thank God the 80s and 90's weren't marred by those ugly wolf turns that are ubiquitous nowadays.

Wolf turns are hideous. So are side somis and most full turns on beam with raised legs. Why aren't these ugly elements banned?

R308 there is your answer r309 Plus a lot of it was black twitter making fun of her horrible dancing. IMO douglas is the most overated aa champion with Retton.

Douglas was better than Carly Patterson, IMO.

Let's be honest, Gaby was one of those situations where if her teammate hadn't messed up, she wouldn't have won Gold. I know a little something about that.

R296, Dawes always seemed so powerful, with lots of amplitude in her skills, so I just assumed she was capable of more. I am far from an expert though...

Black people also made fun of Gaby's hair which was shameful. There was nothing wrong with her hair. That girl just couldn't catch a break.

Something tells me Gaby gets what she gives.

For us casual gymnastics followers, what's the next big competition?

R318, World Championships closes out the season. You won't see anything come up until spring. Usually something like the American Cup opens up the season.

Carlos Yulo became the first gymnast from Philippines to win a world gold medal. He is the men's floor champion.

AND she’s gorgeous.

Ibrahim Colak becomes first ever world champion for Turkey, winning gold on still rings.

Gutsu couldn't on her best day.

R323 = Shannon Miller

It was not a good meet for the US men. No medals this championships.

This is a random question. Do you guys think Tim Daggett was cute when he was younger ?

He seems to love Simone no matter what. I wonder if he just likes celebrity more than skill. I watched Nastia , and she seems to be the last of the gymnasts to pay homage to the past (80's - 90's )while conforming to the modern changes.

R326, he wasn't bad-looking when he was younger. Nice gym body too. He's somewhat annoying as a commentator, but he's much less worse than Elfi Schlegel.

And Arthur Mariano won gold on horizontal bar, maybe this encourage him to come out like Hypolito did

What is a wolf turn?

r329

burn it with fire

r329

here's a bad one

Nevermind just googled it. What's wrong with wolf turns? They look like a great skill to demonstrate balance and precision

What isn't wrong with the wolf turn? They're ugly as shit and most gymnasts can do it without looking like a wobbly mess. It's not even valued at higher than a B skill.

Gutsu should not have been in the AA Final, but that wasn't her fault.

In terms of technical difficulty, Gutsu was head and shoulders way above Miller, and Miller was by no means a slouch.

Wolf turns make the gymnast look like an off-kilter dreidel.

So graceful!

LOL @ R336. I always wondered what the judges credited her for on that one. She spun around 4 times in different poses, all with no control or an ounce of grace.

I think the joke was that she did a Wolf-Kino.

[quote] Which former gymnasts could have maybe competed with Simone's difficulty level?

Maybe Mo Huilan?

Mo Hulian wasn't that powerful and I don't think she could have executed much more than she was already doing.

I've never understood how her beam was even out of a 10.0.

I think it's difficult to compare gymnasts from other eras to the modern gymnasts. Differences in equipment, training, nutrition, and the mental approach to the sport have all changed as has the judging system. Simone is doing crazy difficult stuff with really good form. Even her form on bars is good, but as others have observed she just doesn't have that body line that makes it look pretty on bars. I think it will be quite some time before we see someone who can do what she does, but no doubt someone will come along at some point.

I wonder if Cheng Fei might have been capable of some of her skills. Well, except UB.

R337: Chiles is powerful, but graceful she is not (the same for Jade Carey).

The difficulty on floor can't be comparable because the floor didn't bounce in the past like does right now, so it was way more difficult to execute a Silivas or a Chusovitina, the whole H acros that are now way mrore common.

Gutsu was way ahead of her time. Of course with the perfect 10 system Biles exercise will be very different, because she couldn't win with her usual routines (too dificult to land)

Gutsu was not even close to being as good as some portray her to be. She didn't even come in as a favorite in 1992.

The USA men's team is pathetic.

[quote]Gutsu was not even close to being as good as some portray her to be.

Her routines and level of difficulty say otherwise.

[quote]She didn't even come in as a favorite in 1992.

And? Neither did Shannon.

But we get it, Gutsu stole your favorite scrunchie.

Gutsu had to take out some difficulty to win.

Weird coincidence, after 1991, in every OTHER worlds before the olympics , who ever placed 5th, won the next year at the olympics. 1991 5th= Gutsu 1999 5th= Raducan 2007 5th= Liukin Simone fucked it all up on 2015 though

Yes, Gutsu couldn't do difficulty with clean routines so she took the harder elements out.

Gutsu's power was so surprising because of her slight build. I liked the split leg double layout she would sometimes throw on floor.

Didn't people used to complain that she was not graceful enough and had questionable form? Compared to some gymnasts now, she looks like a prima ballerina.

[quote]Yes, Gutsu couldn't do difficulty with clean routines so she took the harder elements out.

Nah, that's more bullshit. The only things she took out were things that were pointless in keeping since it wasn't worth the risk. The videos above clearly illustrate she could perform those elements with clean routines.

The only element she had really awful form on and couldn't execute properly was that split double layout. Good element in theory, but I don't think she ever landed it without landing short.

I think Lysenko was someone who could have increased her difficulty easily. She had really good technique, albeit really awful form on her Arabians.

[quote]Didn't people used to complain that she was not graceful

It was the 90s... there were like only 3 gymnasts that any one would consider graceful.

[quote]1999 5th= Raducan

Yeah but she's no longer the official winner!!! And she was only the winner that evening because of that vault situation. I wonder who would have actually won had that vault been set correctly.

They should have ended the entire competition and started over.

Raducan finished 5th at Worlds and I think had the highest AA score going into the AA competition, so she most likely would have medaled. My guess is that Khorkina would have won Gold (she would have outscored Raducan during the team event but she fell on bars), and Silver and Bronze would have gone to Raducan and Amanar in either order.

Khorkina had the highest in prelims, Raducan in team finals and I agree that Khorkina would have probably won... they should have let anyone who made a major mistake on an event after vaulting, redo the routine which I know would have opened a whole new set of worms but that AA was fucked from then on end anyway

They really should have just ended the competition and restarted from scratch because it fucked too much with the mindset of those who fell. They could have also said anyone who wanted to keep their scores, could.

I don't think they should hit gymnasts too hard with going out of bounds. The old rules were way too harsh. They realized that. Falling is another story, though. They still get a healthy deduction for it but going out of bounds shouldn't cost someone who is clearly heads and tails above everyone else.

And I don't know about anybody else but Simone looks great up there doing her routines. She is mesmerizing. The difficulty is out of this world and she usually does it near perfection.

R345 right should held it another night. That would have been the right thing to do.

That 2000 Olympics was a travesty. I would have sued if it had been me.

r356

agreed but when? isn't not like there is a lot of extra time during the olympics

I still think they need to be hit harder for not going out of bounds. 1/10 is minimal and that's why nobody cares about it.

R358 they could have gotten rid of the Gala night. Nobody needs to see that shit.

Now we get on the topic of should Raducan have been allowed to keep her Gold?

R360 yes

R360, absolutely.

I agree with R361 and R362. Raducan took a pseudofed for a cold. It was eventually removed as a banned substance. They're always adding more substances, rather than taking them off the list. Raducan should be able to keep her gold. But as above posters have stated, the 2000 Women's All Around was a disaster thanks to the vault being set wrong. I think Khorkina would have probably won. At the very least, she was the favorite. But we'll never know.

I think they are chicken shit to take away gold from Amanar. Personally I think Amanar should give the gold to her country woman Raducan.

Im of two minds about it... at the time, it was a banned substance and there was supposed to be, "zero tolerance." However, considering that Biles is allowed to get a bye for competing with a banned substance because she has a Doctor's note and it is said that the meds Biles takes, because of her ADD does not benefit her.

Retroactively, however, the substance has been removed. Further, it was a Doctor who prescribed the drug to Raducan and like Biles, it was stated that the med did not work in favor of Raducan, but actually suppressed her abilities (which was known at the time).

r364

i think she did

R364 that's what Amanar did... she handed the medal over to Raducan.

Additionally, at the time, neither the Silver or Bronze medalists (Amanar and Olaru, both Romanian) wanted the upgraded medals. Further, the gymnast who most benefited, Liu Xuan, who ended up medaling, also said she did not want the medal. I believe this is why they did not have another awards ceremony.

I forgot that that 2000 was also the Olympics that the Chinese Team was disqualified and 10 years later, the Team Bronze was then awarded to the US.

That competition really was fucked.

Raducan was stripped of her gold medal for a substance which was not performance-enhancing in any possible way.

The substance Andreaa took was Pseudoephedrine.

R360 cheaters are never winners.

Biles was phenomenal. And she probably wasn't even near her very best. Aside from her, who on the women's team is really that dominant? Everyone says the Americans are so dominant but aside from Biles, who would be a shoo-in for an AA Gold? We had Raisman last 2 Olympics.

Although I like her personality, Raisman had gross gymnastics. I'm glad there was always somebody better who blocked her from world and Olympic AA Gold.

It's no longer an issue of the US being so great...

It's about how the rest of the world is so bad.

R372 Raisman gross gymnastics? No no no. She performed some beautiful routines. She had so much power and great landings. Gymnastics is not supposed to be pretty, any way. I know the old timers love the "artistic gracefulness" of yesteryear but this is a sport and a sport all about power (or should be). Good clean routines full of power.

R374, I'm sorry, I appreciate powerful gymnasts doing amazing tricks, but Raisman moved like a mack truck. Gymnastics should have some elegance to it. For just power and tumbling, the Olympics allowed trampolining as an Olympic sport.

Raisman just got better and better.

There were no cute Russians. They all looked less a generation removed from Chernobyl.

Sam M from USA is hot asf but straight so fuck him.

Why did the American women improve so much but American men are so far behind the Russian, Chinese, Japanese, etc.?

R377 the Karolyis of course!

Going back to previous gymnasts who would probably have been competitive with Biles if they didn't have to train compulsories and had the updated equipment Biles has...

I would potentially add Shushonova and Retton to that list.

Retton was capable of doing the Double Tsuk off the old vault which I don't think gymnasts are even doing today.

R379

There are some gymnasts who are doing it but it is woefully under valued so that’s one of the reasons we don’t see it that often

The double twisting Tsuk is currently valued at 5.60.

I had no idea that it was called the Zamolodchikova. That seems insane that it took over 20 years from when MaryLou was doing it in order for someone else to do it and get it named.

Will we ever see a triple-twisting yurchenko from a female gymnast? I know that sounds insane and unsafe, but....

here's the closest we have seen

R383, on second thought, I hope the TTY never becomes a thing. There are already enough gymnasts who've attempted bad Amanars and dangerous double front vaults...

This sport has the most confusing scoring and rules out there. I don't even understand how the scoring works anymore. I don't understand how the Olympic team is even being decided. They have 4 member teams now and there are also two extra spots? WTF?

R385, gymnastics is a sport mostly followed by a small, core group of very knowledgeable fans who know all of the scoring and names of every skill performed. In comparison, I feel like I need slow-motion to tell what skill was just performed, lol. It's not the easiest sport for casual viewers to make sense of.

R386, same as figure skating.

[quote]Only male figure skaters are able to do quads. Female figure skaters can only do triple.

What was that again?

I wonder if Vanessa Atler would have been capable of some of Simone's big skills -- of course, Atler was a major headcase, so there was that.

r389

on VT and FX definitely(pre injury at least), the rudi should have been named after Atler not Chusovitina in a perfect world

Biles could fly off the bars and bounce off the moon and ride the spire on the Empire State Building with a shit eating grin on the way down to a perfect dismount in Madison square garden but she can’t hold a candle to the brilliance of Nadia Comaneci.

R391, different eras, different gymnasts. Love Nadia though. Her perfection really was something else.

Chusovitina has a skill named after her on every event but beam... why the hell didn't she work on that in the past 30 years? Slacker!

Simone is cool -- she helped raise money for an animal shelter.

Yeah but did she raise any money for the family of the person her brother murdered?

She also debuted a video of her training this double layout off beam. Insanely difficult dismount -- I don't think she will compete it, but fun nonetheless.

There are apparently a number of gymnasts training a double layout off beam (IG posted a video compilation on their Instagram account a few days ago). Not sure if anyone will actually compete it, depending on what the value is.

R397, I would love to see someone debut that skill... safely. Is it more difficult than the double-double?

On paper the double double would be worth more as I believe it's listed as an H while the double layout would be an F.

^that was a joke because of what they did they did to the double double.

R399, thanks. The double layout looks to me like it could be more dangerous...like a gymnast could hit their head on the beam if they don't get enough distance, but I'm no expert, so what do I know?

R401, yes, because of the outstretched position, you need a lot more height than you do with a double-double back.