Gays that exist outside of LA NY SF DC Dallas and Chicago

Nope. I’m most definitely bored.

OP How did DALLAS make your list?

What R2 said

Palm Springs here. Sunny skies. Shady people.

OP created the t-shirt this guy is wearing

Iowa is beautiful

DFW is the 4th largest metro in the us. That’s why

Portland, OR, born and raised (did go to grad school in NYC though--other than that, I've always lived in Oregon).

Why does everyone assume gays are in cities? Do gays not exist outside or Cities? Because I know some that choose to stay in Suburbia

DL's Maiden Aunt Brigade is almost entirely Flyoverstan-based.

You forgot "South Florida" and "I-4-land".

Fort Lauderdale/Broward County in particular is becoming one of the gayest (per-capita AND absolute numbers) metro areas in America.

Wilton Manors is kind of like what Palm Springs would be like if Palm Springs were located where Culver City is & surrounded by L.A.

I live in Rochester, NY and I am desperately trying to get a job in LA. The city is okay, and there are lots of nice summer festivals....but all middle class people that I know (mostly from my job) are white, straight, Trump supporters who live in the suburbs. You do get diversity within the city proper, but the area is struggling. I'm thinking of making the move by myself, living off my 401k, and hunting for a job when I get there. I generally like my job (in the suburbs), but I'm sick of talking about hunting around the water cooler with old people.

Dallas has a big community of bitchy white Queens

R13 Yes they do! They put the U in cunt! They are awful

I'm in Ohio, in a diverse suburb. I get along well with my neighbors, and we look out for each other. I'm openly gay, and my boss and co-workers all know, and no one cares. What's left of my family is almost all here, and my Ex (still my best friend) is here. My house is paid for, and the taxes aren't too bad.

Vermont. We're not all lesbians.

That should be on the license plates R16

According to DL, the ones in Atlanta are insane.

The ones in NYC are trash. LA gays are way more fun.

I came into this thread just to write what r2 did.

DALLAS made OP's shortlist of the "hippest" cities to live?

I’m just going to say it, Mobile, Alabama!

Boise Idaho

Boise is beautiful

Yeah, Dallas should definitely be omitted from that list. I’m a life long Texan and the only decent city to live in is Houston, in either Montrose, River Oaks, or The Heights. Dallas is a horrible place full of nelly, bitchy label queens. Austin is fun for a weekend trip, but traffic and cost of living are both awful. San Antonio is ok if you like Mexicans, and lots of em.

what is gay life like in Boise? asks a NYC queen

R24 Mexicans are all over TX. That is their land after all.

R25 you mean a NYC TRANSPLANT

R26 - “That is their land after all.”

No it is not. We took it from them.

OP must be the one who created the poll about US dialects including such famous ones like Rhode Island and Jamaica.

Grew up in a small Appalachian city, moved between Charleston, Miami, New York, Atlanta, San Francisco and Seattle.

Retired after a “spiritual experience”, with enough money to live very comfortably and provide for my extended family for the rest of my life.

Ditched the rat race.

Moved back to not as small town, and love it here. Seemed provincial as a child, but the friendliness, openness, gorgeous scenery, light traffic, lack of crime and interracial hostility...I wouldn’t move back to any large city. I can visit when I get nostalgic!

I’m not Mexican. But it’s theirs. You don’t have right to take shit.

Pittsburgh, PA

R30 - what was your “spiritual experience?”

r33 Cumming through prostate massage.

I love how easy it is to have a spiritual experience when you have lots of money🙄

It’s easy to have lots of money when you’re selfish and never help others.

If not for the gay men in Dallas, the lip gloss and Prada industries would cease to exist!

We will never be as hip or as central to American gay life as the gay men from Dallas... sigh...

Dallas gays are insufferable! I feel about them the way metro straight men feel about guys in Kentucky. So embarrassing!

R38 - actually I hate Dallas but it’s even more tolerable than all the awful pretentious crime-infested cities you listed.

There is crime in EVERY city. Every one.

Love this thread. NYC bitch here dreaming of life in a smaller city.

R42 you mean TRANSPLANT

R8 here--is Dallas's gay scene that bad? My uncle (not gay) lives in Dallas and loves it there, but I've never visited. He and his wife lived nextdoor to a gay couple and they've remained good friends for years now. Portland's gay scene is quite insular and bitchy, and full of pretentious hipster types, which is what this city has attracted in droves, partly thanks to that stupid fucking show.

Dallas gay scene is not bad.

As a NYC Native who travels, the places I’ve met the worst gays were NYC. Straight up. NYC attracts some of the most full of themselves, stuck up gays you will meet. And they LOVE talking shit bout every other gay elsewhere meanwhile gays elsewhere don’t even think of their asses. It’s funny.

They especially love shitting on LA, Dallas, Atlanta and Miami gays. Meanwhile in all those places I had almost nothing but pleasant experiences.

LA gays can be shallow but even then they’re overall nicer and will be cool with you and friends. NYC they won’t even talk to you unless you’re up to their standard of money and looks.

OK I’m glad you’re enjoying thiread. The point of it is to explore gay life outside of very large metropolitan areas. We don’t need to move to those cities anymore. Yet the gay media would have us believe that our life will never be fierce or instagrammed if we dont pack up and leave Grovers Corners. As I stated before many of us have lives outside these places are very for filling with friends and family. Do we lose our seat at the gay table for not giving into gay peer pressure?

R45 sounds like a cunt. No one talks to you because of you. NYC gays are perfectly fine. You’re probably a 6, pissed the 10s don’t fuck you.

Also this is NOT a thread meant to discuss the cities listed above. You fucking discuss these cities over and over and over and over. We don’t give a shit about those cities .. we want to talk about life that exists outside of them. Yet you’ve have hijacked this shit again with fucking Los Angeles and New York for fuck sake!

R46 I love and respect gays that are TRUE TO THEMSELVES and live where they BELONG. I know gays that like to visit cities here and there but prefer to live in Suburbia. Good for them. They’re being honest vs the people that move to places because TV, movies and the media tell them that’s where they belong and they aren’t even happy.

Most times they don’t realize it until later and move away after living a lot of their life miserable.

NYC isn’t for everyone. LA isn’t for everyone. Stop flocking there just because you’re told to.

R48 all the gays who live outside those cities have been lynched, so don’t expect too many comments.

R47 literally just proved my point.

Gays speak to me. I’m born and raised here baby. Unlike you. You should be kissing my ass, wannabe.

I’m speaking about their behavior, like the one you just displayed.

R51 you’re no better, you type like a Cunt and obviously have no self-reflection, and no one gives a fuck if you were born here, that’s actually usually a red flag that you’re loathsome.

I have been told that some gays in NYC are really hot, but I have no idea of verifying this because I haven't seen any from there. And it's really subjective and I tend to go for a specific type; at least 6 feet tall, bubble butt, thick thighs, uncut dick, no tattoos.

NYC and LA are shitholes with nasty old bitter queens, drugs, crime, dirty brown people and gridlocked traffic.

R53 This thread is not about New York and the way people look read the fucking post before you write anything

I am not from NYC and never lived there but I have visited more than 10 times in my life and the gay scene there is a dead gay scene, with the worst of the worst gays there. The best gays I have ever met were in Chicago, Miami, LA, San Diego and Nashville. San Francisco gays are atrocious and NYC gays think theyre God just because they moved there. The ones born there that I meet have edge to them and attitudes but are blunt and real while the ones that move there are complete noobs. Most are a 6 but in their own minds are a 9.

R54 This thread is not about New York and LA read the original post

R52 actually he is correct. You are an example of what he said, and someone taking Pride in where they are from is not loathsome. Its a sense of Pride and Superiority, something he has over you since he has been there since before birth and you have not.

OK read the original post again and you motherfuckers are so off key it’s not even funny.

Gays that exist OUTSIDE of LA NY SF DC Dallas and Chicago.. That’s right outside of these cities!

r53 your statement is ridiculous. There are hot NYC gays, just like there are not hot NYC gays, just like there are hot suburban gays, or hot small town gays, or hot Miami gays etc.

Fucking NativeNYer and his obvious alt account, ruining another thread.

That fucker is a bane on this board.

Not an alt account. I have witnessed you claim anyone that agrees with Native is an alt, maybe it is time to realize some people just do not agree with you dear.

Off topic: What in the holy fuck is going on? Now more than ever, the use of "that" instead of "who." I'm hearing it more and more these days, and not just by complete dummies. Highly-educated people doing it, too. Has everyone just given up?

Used to live in Atlanta—gays there a super shallow an incurious about everything. And they don’t like it when you notice doesn’t live up to is hype. Lots of 6s and 7s who think they’re 10s.—so at least there is some unintentional humor.

I honestly don’t care what the original thread was about. Now we’re talking about how overrated the guys are in LA and NYC.

Bloomington Indiana, Ann Arbor Michigan, Birmingham Alabama, Chattanooga Tennessee, Portland Maine, Lawrence Kansas, Sioux Falls South Dakota, Duluth Minnesota, Richmond Virginia,. ... Are you out there? We know you exist in the cities we want to hear about your experiences. We know you’re not bored there and are living amazing lives.

NativeNYer you got caught pretending to be another poster and trying to agree with yourself back when you didn't realize how the ignore function worked. It was cringey.

r65, so having yet another thread talking about NY and LA? No a good way to try to stick it to those cities if we keep obsessing over them.

R65 . Yeah for the 400,000 time we have to listen to some histrionic asshole in LA talk about the scene and some queen in her midtown apartment discuss the virtues of New York the same fucking thread that’s posted every single fucking week

Columbus, Ohio: The Short North.

Largest concentration of out, friendly gays, per capita, east of the Mississippi.

Albuquerque born and raised here! Incredible mountain range and beautiful sunsets. Love it here don't want anywhere else!

R69 agreed! Awesome city.

R70 The mountains are amazing!

R67 please go make up shit somewhere else. Loser wannabe NYer

Am I the only one who has always thoroughly enjoyed this nonsense about people proclaiming their plot of dirt is somehow superior to another person's plot of dirt by virtue of where that plot of dirt is located?

R74 your plot of dirt becomes superior when the other person goes out of their way to live on your plot of dirt.

If your plot of dirt wasn’t superior they wouldn’t want to be on it so bad.

R70 - have you ever been outside of New Mexico?

Y’all can have your overcrowded NYC, SF, and LA streets full of homeless drug addicts and human feces, urine, and vomit.

I don’t understand how Chicago made the list really. I loved having sex with guys from Dallas when they would come up to New York. Always good looking love to part and good sex.

R78 maybe your transplant ass should travel elsewhere.

Chicago has great gay bars and men. Better than many places

What is it that you NYC, LA or SF gays do on a daily basis that's any different than what we fly-over gays do on a daily basis? I get up in the morning, go to work, come home. I own a small business that's pretty successful. My husband works for a major company. We live in a suburban neighborhood where we like our neighbors and where we've got enough space around us to have our privacy. We've got a close group of friends. We get together and go out to eat or have a few drinks. Sometimes we go to a movie, or maybe a baseball game. Our town has several good art museums for when we need that kind of experience. There's a symphony orchestra, opera and ballet. We get most of the major Broadway shows when they tour. There are festivals and other community events that are fun to attend. And our cost-of-living is pretty good. What exactly are we missing because we're not in NYC or LA or SF?

We did have a map at one time, but apparently it's been 'frozen'. It's R376 on this thread.

R80 that sounds lovely and you sound successful and stable. Something most of the gays in major cities sound. Most can’t afford to live the life they are but stay because it’s NYC and they’re brainwashed to believe it’s the only place to live.

I said a place in Illinois was beautiful the other day and got attacked for it. No joke, full on attacked by someone “from” NYC aka a Transplant because supposedly I am brainwashed to think the sky, grass and trees are beautiful. I think they’re beautiful for thinking NYC is the only place to be and that the garbage they’re by and buildings are beautiful.

I type obese and I'm curious which cities have low humidity and temperatures. I'm sick of east coast summers.

R80, I could have practically written the exact same thing. I've learned to stop commenting on my local cultural attractions, because I'm immediately told that my symphony or ballet can't compare with the ones in larger cities. Who gives a fuck? The question should be if you actually attend their performances. You can have the greatest cultural treasures anywhere, but if you never access them, so what?

R78 I swear to fucking God you people are the biggest fucking retards. The reason Chicago and LA etc. are on this list is because they’re a big metropolitan areas. I’m not asking you who’s dick was the biggest in those areas and who fucked whom. I’m asking for life experiences outside the cities . there is no I made the list or I didn’t make the fucking list it’s what goes on outside the fucking metropolitan areas that are listed at the top of the fucking page you people are retards.

R76 Yes I'm in Dallas right now visiting friends. I hate this heat and crazy traffic.

R85 I can’t help it. I e not been to the other places. And listen up shithead NativeNY. If you want to fight I will beat your ass down mother fucker. You just name where in Manhattan you want to meet and I will kick your tired old ugly ass.

Denton Texas, Cheyenne Wyoming, Bismarck North Dakota, Harrisburg Pennsylvania, Wilmington North Carolina, Shreveport Louisiana, Joplin Missouri, Tucson Arizona,.. Is there anyone out there?

All of them Midwestern gays growing up being fed GM-corn, results in bigger dicks, so at least they have that going for them.

Midwestern gays are hot. Most are hot white boys.

Bellingham WA, Orono ME, Grand Rapids Mi, St Aug FL.. hello?

They don’t call it the Queen City for nothing. Cincinnati gay, not bored, living the dream. Big paid off house, giant yard, friendly neighbors, tons of friends, long term relationship, fab dog, surrounded by loving family. Access to lake house on weekends. Really don’t feel like I’m missing the point of life.

R92, hello, neighbor.

I would say the main thing that separates cities like NY, SF, DC, Boston, Philly, Chicago from the lifestyle you describe is not relying on a car r80.

A walkable urban environment is a big attraction to some people.

[quote]fab dog

My eyes are a bit tired, so I got worried when I saw this as "fap dog."

God you American queens are tedious.

R94 yet most still don’t walk. They Uber. For that live anywhere.

I am a flyover and live in a metropolitan area of about 500,000. I've also lived in the past in NY and LA for a good number of years each. Here I rarely get stuck in traffic. I get my clothes mostly from Target and Walmart like the other gays. Gays with gym bunny bodies are the exception not the rule. Few if any of the gays here have college degrees. If you try to act pretentious in any way whether to gays or straights they will put you in your place. You cannot have a life here if you just want to surround yourself with gays and "gay friendly" people. You need to reach out and become part of the larger community. There is plenty to do. There are some great things about living in NY or LA but the rest of the country can be pretty awesome as well.

Full of stinky fromage, R96

[quote]I get my clothes mostly from Target and Walmart like the other gays.

I see gays buying clothes from Target EVERY DAY here in NYC. So Target I know is true.

Here in philly, I’m bored, for a lot of reasons, but mostly self-Imposed

Apparently I’m being censored for no reason. I’d like a full explanation sent to my account. Yet you let pro trump nazis post with abandon. Tell me now!

R94, I've been to each of the cities you listed and I'm pretty sure I've seen people driving cars in all of them. I'm also pretty sure I could get by without a car in my flyover town if I moved from my suburban neighborhood to the urban center. We have public transportation, sidewalks and Uber here too, you know.

I’m bored in NYC at times. It’s that we expect to always be entertained. No one has time for that. It’s ok to chill.

R103 would like to speak to your manager!

r106 all of my posts appear deleted to me. I guess you can still see them maybe it’s the site being buggy or I’m in the process of being blocked. None of my posts are visible to me

I know a couple that moved to Bloomington Indiana and bought an amazing Victorian house for almost nothing. They have incredible neighbors and live in a city that’s very gay friendly.

Yes, I can, R107.

Did you put yourself on ignore?

R109 two bottles of wine and I’m a drunk whore hanging my head in shame. I’m now logging off and going to die of embarrassment in the corner.

I have lived outside the big cities in a flyover place. I lived in Philly for a bit.

No, no, R110. There are far worse things you could've done. Not a big deal

Birmingham Alabama here - moved here under duress for job reasons and quite like it. The gay scene is small but Atlanta and NOLA are within striking distance. Most of the gay boys with any social prominence know each other so Grindr hookups can be a bit awkward. The gay community is well integrated into the city and it has all the cultural amenities one would expect from any large urban area. The largest employer in town is the University so lots of well educated socially liberal types. Unfortunately, Birmingham remains in Alabama so venture more than fifteen miles outside the city center and you're in Trumpville.

R12 I was clearing my cookies and cursing out Muriel. I was acting a fool.

TAMPA!

However, two bottles of wine. A half a joint and I’m watching Tori Amos perform The Waitress circa 1999. I’m distracted, bitches!

I'm pretty sure Muriel has heard far worse. She's a big girl. The rare thing you did was actually own up, R114. So at least we know that you're a mean drunk, but self-aware enough to admit it!

r113 What about gay bars/social scene ? I'm always curious about how small town gays meet each other.

Actually, and for what it’s worth, I’m not, R96.

But naturally, being an American, you both denigrate my commentary and make an incorrect assumption based on my fucking circumcision status.

R118 I grew up in Butte Montana. It’s exhausting!

R119 I see I’m not the only one drinking tonight! World peace!

R117. I’m not a mean drunk. I just aggressively assume I’m in the right! That’s a whole different Dr Phil😜

I live in the largest city in the continental US. It's humid. And the "culture" mainly consists of beach, golf. There are a few more progressive, younger pockets, one of which I happen to live in. The cost of living is excellent and makes it easier to deal with no longer living in California. I've managed to make a few gay friends. The gays who've lived elsewhere are cool. The gays who've lived here all their lives are pretty regressive and conservative, even if they claim they're "liberal".

R120 I love Butte. I've spent a bit of time there and while I can see how it would be somewhat depressing, it has such a crazy history that I can't help but be fascinated by it. I love the old architecture and houses there, and the way the mine headframes are mixed in with the city. All that being said, I'm not sure I'd ever be able to live there. The upside is that it's a Democratic county (one of the few in MT), and I heard they had their first pride parade a few years ago—which seemed kind of odd honestly, because it's such a small town.

R124 Odd is the best thing you could say about a Butte Montana Pride Parade. God bless them though. That took balls!

OMG- my first post to DL! I live in Madison, WI and it's great - very gay friendly, met my husband here 20 years ago after we both happened to meet after we moved here from different cities. (Seattle and Honolulu) Madison has so many great restaurants, hiking, bike trails, lakes, Broadway shows, museums, symphony, etc. and so close to Milwaukee, Chicago. Very Liberal and a college town too. I know I sound like a tourist or hospitality person but it really is a great place. On the sad side there are certain areas of the city that have shootings but they are pretty much isolated in certain neighborhoods and we have had a rash of cars being stolen by teens - mostly by people who leave their cars unlocked and their garage door opener is used to gain access to the house to get the car keys - freaking scary!

R126 Welcome! Madison is a great town. Crime is everywhere now it’s pretty much unavoidable. I was in Door County a couple years ago. Wisconsin is absolutely stunning in the fall.

Central Nevada and I do NOT recommend it.

I have a cousin living in Reno, she's straight though.

[quote]Central Nevada and I do NOT recommend it.

As opposed to the rest of Nevada?

That's the thing crime is everywhere and I think people just don't use common sense - lock everything up- everything! It's not that hard!

[quote]I love how easy it is to have a spiritual experience when you have lots of money🙄

Actually, I think it was Shirley MacLaine herself who once said, "spirituality is always easier with room service."

R126, Welcome aboard!

There are some pretty towns in Pennsylvania, like Bedford And State College that are livable and have nice small town gays. Same with Virginia and Maryland.

i am 126 but I cannot figure how to respond to specific reply numbers like 127 and 133 - I have looked at help but not seeing it

[quote]We know you exist in the cities we want to hear about your experiences. We know you’re not bored there and are living amazing lives.

You sound like you're quite determined to find someone...anyone really, to prove your hypothesis. If you don't know any of these gays, how do you know how "amazing" their lives are?

Small city/townie gays I've interacted with are often VERY proud of how "accepted" they are (which is ALL they've ever wanted!), to the point of being ignorant right wing Trumpers! They are frequently quite clueless, usually have terrible senses of history and hate organized labor, like that nice Christian couple next door! Ugh, no thanks.

"What exactly are we missing because we're not in NYC or LA or SF?"

From what you describe of your life, absolutely nothing. My partner and I live in Brooklyn and don't have the quality of life you seem to enjoy. Yes, there are crazy cultural amenities and energy here. But there is absolutely no "chill" whatsoever. We are both over 45 and we work ALL the time. Everything is crazy expensive. I'm still a bit ambitious in my work life and we have a very nice combined income but we are usually too tired to do anything with it, other than hit a restaurant/bar on the weekends or see an overpriced show on Broadway.

We do, however, spend time in the Hudson Valley. And we've recently decided to move there down the road - to this beautiful little town called Kinderhook. To be honest, I can't wait. A house with a yard and neighbors who might actually want to get to know us sounds perfect.

NYC, more than ever, will just suck you dry. And there doesn't seem to be a sense of community anywhere.

R137 There’s no community in LA either it’s the most god awful place on the planet

(R136) R125 here you are very misinformed - how dare you assume #1 that we are trumpers - never in a million years! #2 - we moved here as out gay people and nobody cared - no one cares dumbass! And by the way, my husband and I were both in a labor unions when we met and are still members of unions. Gays are a huge part of organized unions and always have been.

Atlanta's a close second, R138

[quote]DL's Maiden Aunt Brigade is almost entirely Flyoverstan-based.

Excuse me, but the original Watch & Ward Society that banned books and racy plays was Boston based.

We are legion. And everywhere.

I am in Phoenix and the one good thing I can say about it is I can afford it. I struggled so much in California with housing so coming here has ended that chapter. The bad side if it really is no where but at age 69 I guess it doesn't matter so much.

A big city if single and slutty minded.

I'm in Boise also, r22. I was beginning to think I was the only DataLounger here. (Well, Middleton until next month when I move into a new building downtown.)

R144 Let’s hear more about Boise!

R144. You are! I just love sayin Boise

R33

2008 Subprime Crisis. Saw it coming, sold out my positions and walked away.

Had no idea TPTB would go to the extreme lengths of bailing out the biggest players. Those two events broke my desire to perpetuate the fraud.

If I’d stayed in I’d be 20x richer. My “comrades” (When you work within a financial system that is intimately tied to the government, comrade is the appropriate term) are even wealthier, or dead of stress, or miserable in other ways.

R34

Yummm....

R35

Define wealthy? $6M? $10M? $100M?

Actually there’s a very good book based on this exact subject of gays who choose to not live in the atypical gay places. It’s called Life Outside by Michelangelo Singnorile.

It’s all about gays who choose to live outside the box of partying, steroids, porn, Chelsea, West Hollywood, Boys Town. It shows there’s a much bigger world outside the typical gay places.

The only way we’ll really gain acceptance into the real world is to go into it instead instead of closing ourselves into the gay ghettos and lifestyle we’ve created.

I mean Dallas, hunny? One of these things is not like the other..

How is Dallas any different to live in than any of the others?

R150 it’s not only coast you goddamn butthole breath.

I was curious, if you look at the rankings of the most important global cities, for America they fall in this order.

New York, Chicago, LA, Miami, SF, DC. So in theory if you were going to pick 6 should probably be those.

In 7th place is a Texas city, but not Dallas, it is Houston.

R96 - “You American queens are tedious. There’s a whole other world out there.”

Everyone wants to be us. That “other world” is fine for vacation, but we always look forward to getting back to the best country in the world.

[quote]Everyone wants to be us.

You are delusional. My danish coworker can't wait til they can go back to Denmark and I don't blame her. I assure you many other westerners very much do not want to be Americans. Just look at the difference in healthcare costs alone, not to mention maternity leave which is a huge concern for her.

How old are you, r151? My 11 year old niece throws better shade than that.

R100, that shit is hilarious, can't stop laughing. Thank you!

Suggestion: some of you who are talking about the great cities you live in should just name them. (Looking at you R80 and R98) -- there are weekly threads from DLEGs looking to retire to smaller cities and/or just step off the treadmill and that could be very helpful to them.

Any city is what you make of it. I was born and raised in NYC and don't really participate in the "gay scene" at all. When I was single it was nice that HK was close to the UWS because it made app hookups more convenient, but that's just never been my scene so I avoid it and things like Fire Island. And yet I have enough gay and lesbian friends and don't feel particularly isolated.

And yeah, sometimes it's funny to hear someone from Iowa who has been in NYC for all of 18 months say "we New Yorkers" but that's about it--it's slightly amusing for a few minutes but nothing to get worked up about.

For those of you still living in NYC--do you think it's worth it to live there versus Chicago? I currently live in Chicago and I'm considering moving to NYC (been in Chicago my whole life).

I agree that is it weird some people are trying to talk about their city without naming what it is. What the hell?

Philadelphia here. We don’t have big city attitude like the gay mega-cities but I have everything I want as a gay man. Cheaper than most other cities, great suburbs and public transport, great health care, thriving gayborhood, great and abundant restaurants, diverse people, lots of colleges. I find the absence of pretense nice after NYC. I do miss the cosmopolitan attitude occasionally - and the job market is more limited. But that is also what makes it more affordable and less pretentious. We don’t pretend to be the best place ever - but have everything.

[quote]Dallas has a big community of bitchy white Queens

And the gay community is very racist and segregated. It's that way everywhere, really, but Dallas especially.

It's ironic that interracial gay porn is all the rage, yet our community is just as segregated as ever.

I'm from LA, live in SF currently, and lived in London for 2 years a few years back for graduate school. These are great places that I feel fortunate to have lived/grown up in. However, I do get bored in SF (as I did in London and in LA). This weekend the city is empty, I had to stay in town, and I've been bored out of my mind. It's me and not the cities, I know. The gays are fine here and I have a small group of friends - gay/straight. I'm am in my late 30's, but I feel this sense that there is more out there. My routine, like others I know, is relatively the same no matter which city it is: work, gym, drinks/dinner, bed. Palm Springs/getaways/a couple of big trips per year to break up the monotony. It feels a bit empty sometimes. Even though there is everything one can want here, I do sometimes feel lonely (no, this isn't an entry from one of those "I'm so lonely" threads). These cities can feel transient and lacking community. I love these threads & the retirement threads (where to go) b/c I am always on the hunt for these great towns. Even it this thread, it's mostly LA vs. NYC. A few people have said they have these great lives, but omit where they are having them. Pushing 40, what I am looking for is a sense of community, whatever that looks like. I know a couple who have been together forever and were "sooo LA" as people say. They gave it up for Astoria, OR (where the Goonies was filmed) and they haven't been happier. A very long lead up to the question - is the grass just always greener on the other side?

I think through later middle age, you can fantasize how a change in location will fix your life. In reality, 75-80% is your own mental state, friendships/relationships and job. My biggest issue was my job. Changing the job - and making much less money - made me happy after trying to find happiness in other things. I had to move because of less money - and even though it’s less fabulous and exciting place, I prefer it because I don’t have to work a horrible job to maintain my lifestyle.

R162 here - I think what can make small town life fulfilling is moving with a partner.. When you are single and gay, life might be better or easier in a larger city. The one commonality amongst the gays I have read/seen who have highly satisfying lives in these random places is they are partnered. Gays who moved from a city to small town life - did you move with your partner or did you fly solo? If you did move with a partner, would you estimate that the experience would be the same if you were single and just packed it up for Boise?

Good point R164. Mobbed with partner. When I look at Grindr in this area and realize the limited and depressing pool of people available (1/2 closeted married old guys, 1/2 under 21) and the absence of any social opportunities outside of apps, I can’t imagine spending my 20s or even 30s here. Grateful to have lived in a major city in 20s and 30s for the gay liberation/identity, sex and abundance of dating opportunities to find Mr Right.

You know why people are reluctant to name their cities, R157 & R159? Because they'll just be ridiculed and dismissed. They'll be told, either subtly or blatantly, that there is no way they could possibly have fulfilling lives in flyover country. I mean, look at the reaction Dallas is getting. I can only imagine what would be said about Tucson or Omaha or Kansas City or Indianapolis or Jacksonville, much less Pueblo or Cedar Rapids or Greensboro or Duluth or Lubbock.

For the record, I'm R80 and I live in Fort Worth, the 13th largest city in the US. I'm quite happy here. A few read my post above and commented that my life here sounds rather nice. If I had said "Fort Worth" upfront, I suspect that many would have dismissed it right away. There's a bias on this board that everything and everyone in flyover country is contemptible and "trash". The truth is there are lots of us here in between the coasts and we are capable of having very satisfying and happy lives where we are.

I've visited almost all of the largest cities in the US and I think they've all been great. I would be happy living in many of them, but not because I think they're better than Fort Worth. Just different - different opportunities and experiences. Can you imagine a New Yorker or a San Franciscan thinking the same if the situation was reversed?

I really think you need to replace Dallas with Atlanta.

Miami and Boston come before Atlanta.

Thanks R166/R80

I'm curious--I've been to Dallas on short business trips but had always assumed that Fort Worth was just part of the greater Dallas area, sort of how Oakland is part of the greater San Francisco area--same radio and TV stations, same sports teams, people often live in one city and work in the other, shared suburbs, etc.

Sounds like Fort Worth is it's own thing. What are the advantages over Dallas and other cities in Texas?

Enjoy where you are - but Dallas always feels oppressively southern and Christian. Love Houston - think it’s a great city and could see living there. But Dallas just gives off a mean, judgmental vibe. I appreciate you should be happy wherever you are but Dallas would be close to the last place on my list of places to live - after St Louis, Cleveland, Minneapolis.

Fort Worth is part of the Dallas metro area, just like Oakland is part of the San Francisco Metro area r169.

But being part of the same metro doesn't make them literally the same place.

Dallas is where you raise your children and Fort Worth is where you raise hell.

Stay in Chicago. The people are nicer and it's way cheaper (for now).

NYC - Manhattan in particular - is awash in shallow, striving, neurotic energy. Its funky fun freak factor has been leeched out entirely.

Unless you're going to make a ton of money. Then by all means, get here ASAP. We certainly cant get enough of our nouveau riche consumers. The city at this point is owned by that element - along with the tourists and oligarchs.

YMF is right about making the best of where you are. If you have imagination and positivity, anywhere can be inspiring as long as you aren’t isolated. People can be isolated anywhere, and in fact huge cities are known for causing loneliness. I have met happy gay men and women in small towns all over the U.S. This land is made for you and me, as Woody said.

[R166] Yes! I’ve enjoyed Fort Worth. Some of the friendliest people I’ve met, and I like the old cowtown atmosphere. People who refer to flyoverstan and write it all off are missing out. Ironic that so called sophisticates are so close minded.

Houston is considered a world class city. Dallas is not.

If you want to live near Republicans move to Fort Worth.

[quote]r159 I agree that is it weird some people are trying to talk about their city without naming what it is. What the hell?

Some of us have been stalked before, due to our desirability.

R169, your analogy of San Francisco and Oakland is apt in regard to Dallas and Fort Worth. Minneapolis-St Paul is probably even more apt. While DFW can be viewed as a homogenous area, Dallas and Fort Worth have very different personalities and vibes. I grew up in Dallas and have lived in Fort Worth for about 20 years. Fort Worth is more laid back than Dallas. With a population of almost 900K, it's smaller by about 400K people, but unfortunately more politically conservative (really more of a "live and let live" attitude). Housing is more affordable over here and the traffic is not as bad as it is on the Dallas side (although it's getting worse as the population continues to grow). Fort Worth has a very walkable, safe downtown and a great museum district. It seems to appreciate its history much more than Dallas where they like to bulldoze the old and build something shiny and new. It began as a military outpost on the frontier, became an important cattle market, and grew into a business and cultural center for Texas. As the two cities have merged, it has been overshadowed by the bigger Dallas. Even growing up in Dallas, I still feel uncomfortable when I go back over there. Dallas feels more judgmental, tense and shallow. I feel much more relaxed and comfortable over here.

After living in Fort Worth a few weeks your new hobby will be looking at the Craigslist ads for places to rent in Los Angeles.

See, R180 is exactly what I'm talking about. Why even bother answering the OP's question? We're just going to be dismissed no matter what we say.

R123

Are you in Jacksonville and live in Avondale or Riverside?

We had to get out. We were suffocating with the Baptists and the Republicans. It's affordable and in many ways beautiful (especially the beaches), but even the gays - if they were out - often seemed as if they were from another planet.

It's DL R181.

People feel they need to make snarky comments regardless of what you say. Just ignore the haters.

For Christ sake don’t move to LA... Unless you want to be surrounded by thousands of shopping centers that look like they were bombed out in Syria filled w bail bondsman and donut shops. Then you can go sit in 14 lanes of traffic and not move for three hours. Or you can go walk back to your apartment that looks like a motel and hang out with all the other histrionic assholes asking you to come see their showcase. If you want to community feel forget LA… Everyone’s always moving you’ll never form the relationships that you would in a smaller town.

Anyone in Chattanooga?

There is no reason to give snarky comments about Fort Worth. Everyone knows it is a republican shit hole.

I moved back to my beautiful coastal hometown after college, 1+ decade in NYC and another in LA. I had some success, but not enough to make it worth sticking it out in either place for the rest of my life. Plus, it’s sometimes depressing in either town if you haven’t fulfilled your dreams, and the years are going by.

Actually, I love my hometown and always did, so it’s okay.

I live in one of those cities and I don't have a family or a fulfilling life.

When I left the city, I left my dreams to make it big in my career. Accepted I’m just another schmuck trying to get by. Nothing special. It’s the work environment required to live in NYC that is toxic. Assumed you are always on call. I realized outside of NYC, it’s ok to go home at 5 and not check email until bedtime.

So you fled Fort Worth as soon as you could, huh R186?

Sounds like a win-win for both of us.

What career in particular R189? I’m interested to understand how people survive in NYC.

Finance. Travelled 4-5 days/week, worked most Saturdays, horrible treatment accepted because you are getting paid to deal with it. Straight guys who get married young and have kids seem to be the ones who stick it out. They don’t have a choice once they start living that life. Gay men and women usually realIze money isn’t enough to give up life and happiness - so there are less of them in the upper ranks by 40+.

And then 50% of your salary goes to taxes. Not that I’m complaining as I believe in high taxation for social good. But it pisses me off that most bosses on Wall Street get paid via capital gains which is taxed at 15% - so they not only make a ton more money, have less stress, work from weekend homes but also pay less in taxes than I do.

Hello R21, Mobile is my hometown!

R173, thank you. I appreciate the advice. Plus, Chicago is near a large body of freshwater so that's always good too (for when other places run out of it).

R192, it seems like New Yorkers pay high taxes and get very little in return. All the infrastructure looks even worse than what's in Chicago--many of the bridges look like they could break at any minute. Chicago has similar issues. Maybe it's because both have a contentious relationship with their state governments.

Young people are never satisfied with anything for long. And that's far more evident with young gay people. They set great store in being able to brag about where they live, even if they have to live like rats in tiny apartments or with 4 others to be able to afford the rent. Sad, but that's the world we live in.

In all my time visiting and eventually living in NYC for 3 years I learned one thing. The only people who were always trumpeting how much better NYC was than every other city were the transplants. The ones who moved there from small Midwest cities were the most vocal. Most native New Yorkers either just tolerated it, or in most cases dreamed of getting out one day so they could have a better life.

In L.A. I found that a large percentage of people who moved there from other parts of the country became disenchanted with the place relatively fast and ended up moving back where they came from, or somewhere far away from L. A. and California. They found out that it was not the Utopia they had dreamed of for so long.

The only gays who so viciously disparage other cities with sizeable gay populations are some of the nasty queens here and other online sites. It gives their fragile egos a boost to brag to people who don't even know them, and there's nothing quite as sad as that.

Everyone I know that moved to NY in the 90’s has moved upstate. It’s not a sustainable city to live in for your whole life unless you are extremely wealthy. Many artists and musicians have moved to Woodstock.

[quote]Are you in Jacksonville and live in Avondale or Riverside? We had to get out. We were suffocating with the Baptists and the Republicans. It's affordable and in many ways beautiful (especially the beaches), but even the gays - if they were out - often seemed as if they were from another planet.

Yes, that's spot on. Well, almost. I'm currently in downtown in a nice apartment complex, but the growth of downtown is going to be too slow for me to hold out hope for a true urban, walkable experience, so I'm moving on. I am house-hunting and hoping to focus on Riverside / Avondale.

I would NEVER in a million years have considered moving here if it weren't for a pretty great professional opportunity I got. That, coupled with the great compensation and low cost of living convinced me to make the move.

Been two years now and I was able to get adjusted to the gross humidity better than I thought I would. I'm also fortunate to have formed a small, but meaningful social and professional network of progressive 30-something friends.

I'm not really relationship-hunting these days, but I've actually started to see gay couples walk hand-in-hand in the neighborhoods I frequent without fear of harassment. Perhaps things are slowly evolving.

On a more shallow note, on my best day, I was a solid 6 1/2 in LA, so.... not having any trouble getting laid in Jax!

R198 was in response to R182, btw.

R196, you raise some good points. When I was younger, I went to a England as part of a program. I met several New Yorkers (all natives) and they said they wanted to get out and that the city was too much for them. They all talked about how much they loved downtown Chicago. I was honestly shocked at the time but after hearing other talk about the rat race there and all the tourists and transplants that flood it, it makes sense

Anyone in Louisville KY?

Why would anyone bother living w str8s? If it doesn’t have 75 gay bars, 25 bath houses, Upscale shops and restaurants, 60 exclusive gyms and guys on apps that are all 10s.. why bother? Also no fish or str8. We want an exclusive gay neighborhood just for us. Oh.. Im still bored. Time to go look for dick in my fierce city. Im so in touch w reality I swear.

^^^ Hear hear! Some of my best friends are straights. I've always said a gay man will never find a better friend than a straight man who has has no hang ups about gays.

Dallas is a big city. Fort Worth feels more like a big town than a city. Fort Worth is also more conservative and Republican.

The only reason to live in Fort Worth over Dallas is if you want to live in a bigger house, since your money goes a lot further there. There are some lovely neighborhoods in Fort Worth.

Question: start a thread about Olive Garden or some other chain restaurant and dozens and dozens of gay Flyoverstani DLers will chime in with strong opinions about the quality of the bread sticks and endless pasta bowls.

Yet here's a thread where they can show Flyoverstani Pride and other than one guy from Boise, one from Jacksonville and one from Ft. Worth, they are all quiet.

Why is that?

R205 Because they’re afraid the gay mafia will come take their membership away. Many gays are elitist assholes who want everybody to think they’re living a fabulous life living in fabulous places like New York City and Los Angeles. If they admit they live somewhere else it’s like they failed as a gay person what will the str8s think about them now if they’re not fierce and fashion forward. Oh the horror!

It's an anonymous message board though R206.

I mean if they're going to express opinions about Olive Garden, that's far more un-fabulous than explaining why Ft. Worth is an undiscovered treasure.

[quote]it seems like New Yorkers pay high taxes and get very little in return.

I'll tell you what's currently pissing me the fuck off living in NY. They're putting in these fucking bike lanes EVERYWHERE. In all boroughs. Long stretches of avenues that are already a nightmare, now have one lane taken away for bikes - and in many cases, there aren't even that many bikes using them. Whoever decided to just put these lanes everywhere is a fucking imbecile who didn't give a shit that they just made it even worse for drivers and I don't doubt there will be an increase in auto accident due to the incompetence. I don't even want to think about when the snow comes.

accidents*

First, you would be hard-pressed to find a thread on here where gays, flyover or not, are defending Olive Garden, at least not seriously. Second, an attack on where one lives or where one is from feels more like a personal attack, at least to me. So that might explain why few have spoken up about their little part of the world. That's why I was reluctant to say I'm from Fort Worth. I have a good life here and I'm not ashamed of being from here. But I knew if I made that known, some asshole would be sure to tell me that Fort Worth was a "shithole". R180/R186 was right on time with that comment. Few on here are truly interested in what makes life in one of the non-fabulous cities interesting and satisfying. Most will just take it as an opportunity to throw shade. So why bother?

R210, I don't understand why you would even get offended if someone did that? I'm a lifelong Brooklynite. Why in the hell would I care if someone shits on Brooklyn (including Manhattanites) when I know I love it. I mean I understand getting pissed if someone fucks with your family/friends IRL, but who cares if someone (on an anonymous board no less) says something about where you live? If you love where you live a person you don't even know shouldn't offend you over something so silly.

La Crosse Wi. here.

If you love where you live, a person you don't even know shouldn't offend you over something so silly.*

What R211 said.

For all you know the person shitting on Fort Worth lives in a small town someplace.

It's like Grindr--just assume no one is who they say they are..

I'm really not offended, R211. I'm pretty secure about myself, the choices I've made and the life I live. But R205 asks why none of the flyovers are taking this opportunity to extoll the virtues of their towns. I've been on DL long enough to know that most on here don't care to learn about what makes a place like Fort Worth a nice place to live. Most just want to shit on someone else. So I can understand why few are sharing what they like about their towns. Why waste your time, you know? But for those that truly did want to know, I hope I gave you some insight at least about my non-fab city.

I've been to Ft. Worth many times and I would gladly live there over L.A. or NYC.

After living in Queens and Miami I'm now pretty happy in Albuquerque. The city's vibe is laid back and unpretentious which is very refreshing.

There are about 3 bay bars that I know of, In one you can dance on the rooftop under the gorgeous southwestern sky.

Also, I just spent a day in San Diego. It's one of the most beautiful cities I've ever seen. Unfortunately it's also quite expensive as is most of Calfornia .

Anyone in Minneapolis?

R217, Albuquerque is one of the towns on my list that I would be happy to live in if I ever left where I am now.

My nephew is now living in Fort Worth attending the highly esteemed TCU. He was admitted to several Ivy league university but when he received the admittance letter from TCU he danced in glee. When I visited he took my to this fabulous restaurant where you could have as many bread sticks as you wanted. From the looks of the people in Fort Worth it seems bread sticks were their favorite meal. Next he took me on a tour of all of Fort Worth's fine churches. Fort Worth claims to have more churches per population than any other city in the USA. After a tour of the churches he took me to the very vibrant downtown where we parked in one of the many parking structures and got out of the car and walked around viewing the other marvelous parking lots in the area. It was great. More than one person walked up to us to tell us what the Lord Jesus had done for their lives. I can't wait to leave Los Angeles and move there as soon as possible.

Boy, you really showed me, R220! Thanks to your insightful post, I'm putting my house up for sale tomorrow, closing my business and hitting the road for LA. But not before I fuck your nephew on the way out of town. I assume his Uncle Bottom has primed his hole good for me!

Here R220, you can hang this on your wall.

R221 Don’t forget to ask him to take you on a tour of the slums of LA.… Meaning the entire city.

How very dare you! Each one of these lovely homes are currently going for $1.5 million .

"Gay men and women usually realIze money isn’t enough to give up life and happiness - so there are less of them in the upper ranks by 40+."

Ugh, this resonates for me. I'm starting to make that realization. I posted earlier about living in Brooklyn. I'm in the above situation and it isnt cute. Worked my way up to the middle in advertising as a copywriter, low-level Creative Director and now freelance. I make really good money but not enough to be rich. I'm 46 now and most of the people I work with are under 30. Some are really smart but more aren't. Let's just leave it at that. My partner and I are stuck in NYC for another 10 years, until he can get his pension - he's a social worker/therapist for the Department of Education. And I just dread my job now - all of the toxicity and bullshit and manufactured melodrama. My permanent, daily thought bubble is "W. T. F.?"

I'm wondering how long I can last before I run screaming from my desk. Ha. As mentioned upthread, I dream of the day when we will be gone from here. Have an easier, cheaper, simpler life.

For the record, I'm from NYC. Grew up on the upper east side and went college at Hunter. So my bitterness is earned, dammit!!!

R225, is the rat race way worse in NYC than other cities?

Great things are coming to Fort Worth. Rona Barrett will be performing in the Fiddler on the Roof at the world renowned Casa Manana Playhouse. Best yet she will be performing all roles and there will be a costume contest at the end of the play. Winner will receive dinner for one at the Olive Garden.

I love parts of LA and think it’s an exciting place, but miles and miles of it are really ugly. It’s strip mall hell. You take the outskirts of any town in the USA with the mattress discounters and EZ loan centers, multiply them by a million and that’s LA.

I love LA. It's superficial and cold and fake, but I can't get enough. But all that sunshine and you can go to the beach and hike in the mountains all in the same day. I also love the juxtaposition of all that wealth and all that poverty. Plus people will stab you in the back while smiling in your face. It is a city where you can really live life. It's like no other.

R228 You described LA exactly how it is. It’s ugly as fuck.

If the movie and TV industry had set up shop in Nebraska 100 or so years ago the gays would be touting Omaha as the greatest city on the planet and raving about the surreal beauty of the great plains. Far too many gays are overly status minded. It really doesn't matter where they live as long as they think everyone else is jealous of them because of it.

How's the gay life in Durham and Raleigh NC? I've heard that Durham is having their gay pride at the end of September.

How funny is it when someone on this board from NYC or L.A. starts whining about how horrendous the traffic is in Atlanta, Dallas, or Austin. LOL

[quote]If the movie and TV industry had set up shop in Nebraska 100 or so years ago the gays would be touting Omaha as the greatest city on the planet and raving about the surreal beauty of the great plains.

Then perhaps NE wouldn't be such an uncultured place full of Republicans fools. I mean you do understand that the "arts" is considered a bad thing in places like NE which is why they DIDN'T set up shop there 100 years ago. The arts in NE is something they think only in terms of cutting from the budget to give to defense because the pentagon doesn't have nearly enough fucking money, so they need that like .02% from the arts.

R229, you're description of LA makes it look absolutely awful.

Of course the gays in LA want you to be jealous of them because they’re all acting like eighth grade girls… At age 45. People don’t grow up in LA. It’s a bunch of borderline personality disorder, narcissistic, histrionic bunch of assholes parading around a bunch a run down donut shops and expensive houses that look like Taco Bell’s Once in a while they gather at a restaurant… That’s the best one ever… And little do you know it’s right next to a bail bondsman… But they don’t show that on the news or in magazines. Oh and not all of them make dinner plans because they’re sitting in traffic until 2 o’clock in the morning

R232 I’ve heard really good things about Raleigh and Durham. There are tons of universities in the area so people are very well educated. The job market is fantastic I think even better than Charlotte.

Yeah, you would never see a Monet or a Sargent in someplace like Omaha-Fucking-Nebraska. They don't believe in art.

Oh, wait.

Oops!

[quote][R229], you're description of LA makes it look absolutely awful.

In many ways it is. It's not for the weak. LA will beat you down, if you're not strong enough. That's what I love about it. All that sunshine and pretty, hides the hellmouth. It's different from NYC, which is so in your face.

NYC rat race is more intense. We got paid more - but we work our asses off. The culture is one of work. Everyone I work with lives on the assumption that the job is the most important thing in life. You can make money - but you sacrifice your life. I agree it’s not sustainable - and most move out to upstate, FL or CA by 50s. I burned out but fortunately lived way below my means for years - while my coworkers bought steadily larger apartments/houses and had kids.

I also don’t mind having paid high taxes. The social support system in NY is great. We provide more support for the poor than the red states. And never have to worry about health care - we had guaranteed health care long before Obamacare and don’t risk losing it and many of the other social benefits to a Republican federal government.

How’s life in Kansas City? How’s life in Minneapolis?

Northeastern Pennsylvania, an 8 county area, is full of native/long time New York City residents who wanted to get out. We have no tax on clothes or pensions. The area is a healthy purple politically. It's only 2 to 3 hours by bus to NYC if you really need your big city fix. We have three gay bars, three gay camping resorts and two fairly active regional LGBT organizations. There are 20 different colleges and universities throughout the area that add to the mix. Stroudsburg, Milford and Jim Thorpe are great small towns/cities closer to the NY/NJ borders. Scranton's downtown is great but living is better in the suburbs a 15 minute commute away. Stay away from Wilkes Barre and Hazleton. Also if you want a dirt cheap Victorian or old firehouse or old school to make into your home move here. Some famous gat artists who paints a lot of parrots moved to Scranton and did that several years ago. OK bitches look down on me and where I live. Let me have it!!!

Tangentially related request: Can any of the successful posters in various cities, the ones who have talked about their career, provide their approximate salary??

For example I’ve seen videos of people who live on 50k with a ton of roommates, and also multimillionaires. But I want to get an understanding of what it takes to live comfortably there. I’m assuming a salary base of $210k plus variable comp?

TBH, I’m also curious to compare to my own salary and regret every decision that I’ve made in my life.

[Quote]I love parts of LA and think it’s an exciting place, but miles and miles of it are really ugly. It’s strip mall hell.

LA combines the expense of a real city with the lifestyle of any strip mall and highway place like Dallas and the like.

I don't get it.

Well said R245. LA made sense when it was cheaper. Now I don’t get paying urban prices to live in suburbia.

[quote]r223 Don’t forget to ask him to take you on a tour of the slums of LA, [R221].… Meaning the entire city.

Much of L.A. really is very ugly. That's why they can shoot a lot of movies there and pretend it's other places. Many streets are just burnt out, concrete trash piles that were never designed with any beauty to begin with.

[quote]r234 I mean you do understand that the "arts" is considered a bad thing in places like NE which is why they DIDN'T set up shop there 100 years ago.

Actually, I believe L.A. was chosen as a film capital because there was sunshine year round. On some early silent movie sets they didn't even have ceilings or roofs, and just used natural light. Also the coastline could be tweaked to look like different places. The Hollywood Hills could double for Vermont. There was desert somewhat nearby if you had to mimic the Sahara.

You couldn't get that variety elsewhere. Or the consistent light.

That is correct R248.

As for LA itself, large swaths of it are as described above, crappy 1970s suburban sprawl. But then again large swaths of NYC are crappy 1950s garden apartments in Queens or 1940s apartment buildings in the Bronx.

I lived in Brentwood for two years, in that area right off San Vicente near the Whole Foods. I could get to the beach in about 10-15 minutes and to my job in Santa Monica in around the same time and that seemed to make all the difference. The beach and beach towns and the whole west side are really awesome in a resort town kind of way and it seemed like it was 72º and sunny every day.

Never really did the WeHo thing, I had friends from work and mostly hung with them. Rarely made it to Los Feliz/Silverlake or DTLA just because it was such a hike, but I did like to get in the car and go exploring on weekends.

Bottom line though is that like all popular coastal US cities, LA is a lot of fun if you can afford it and probably hellish if you can't, your quality of living on $100K/year or less is going to be nowhere near what it would be in a smaller place.

I could've written R229's post. Hiking Runyon Canyon, drinks at Paradise and walking along the beach at sunset, strolling Old Town Pasadena, taking a studio backlot tour. LA has so many things to do and charming places to see. The fucking strip mall diss is tired.

There is lots to do in Dallas, Houston and Atlanta as well and they are a lot more affordable than LA r250.

LA is more similar to those cities than it is to New York, Boston or Philly.

But massive humidity and no ocean R251

The weather and the beach are what make LA so desirable

Believe it or not, many people couldn't care less about living near the beach. And I dare say the weather in L.A. is nothing to brag about. Dry, smog laden, fire prone is nothing to brag about.

And for those people, R253, living in Los Angeles near a beach will not seem particularly attractive.

Most people I know in LA rarely go to the beach. I realIzed LA is more of a fantasy ideal than a realistic life.

The beach is yellow course sand and the water is too cold with lots of slimy seaweed. Redondo Beach was my first beach experience. I now prefer gulf coast beaches because of the soft white sand, clear water, and gentle surf. California beaches are great for surfers, but not for wimps like moi.

[quote]Most people I know in LA rarely go to the beach.

But it's there and it's close, if you want it. LA is an acquired taste, but so are any of the cities mentioned in the OP (not sure why Dallas is there). LA has a casualness and phoniness that people don't like. NY is too harsh. SF is way too expensive and dreary. DC is too fake and uptight. Chicago is too cold in the winter.

My primary residence is an organic farm in Ojai, but I have a pied-à-terre in gorgeous Century City. I have the best of both worlds.

Really R251? What is there of interest to do in Houston and Atlanta? Didn't seem like much in either city.

How old are you R258 ? That is a pretty nice life.

[R260] Yes, it’s a charmed life. Age is irrelevant, according to the gal who does my Botox.

[243] Scranton is a dump: drunks, drugs, people on public assistance, law offices and government offices instead of retail downtown, pot holes, corrupt government, dowdy ladies, wannabe mobsters, dumpy houses that people don’t take care of, Greenridge snobs that have no reason to be snobs, wannabe artists stuck in the 90’s, homophobes everywhere, closeted individuals everywhere, the out gays are like an entertaining freak show for locals...among other things. The only good things are the adult bookstores, those are fun.

But it's the home of Dunder Mifflin R262

R252 - I’m someone who wants a walkable urban core life - so really my options are limited to the bigger older cities NYC / Chicago / Boston or somewhat smaller places like Philly. Once you get into the small old cities like Scranton, or Syracuse (which I’m more familiar with) the old downtowns really aren’t livable because there is almost nothing there to support day to day life. I suppose you could have a car and stock up on things at Wegmans, but that doesn’t solve the problem of having a somewhat vibrant mix of shops & restaurants you can just walk to. There just don’t seem to be enough people in those types of places who want that kind of life - so no critical mass to make it happen.

R259 that's because apparently you didn't bother looking. The very idea that you couldn't find much to do in cities the size of Atlanta & Houston is laughable.

Bloomberg reports that almost 300 people a day are leaving NYC.

I can't blame them. I'm here because family and friends are and because I'm in a good situation housing and work-wise.

But it's a tough place to raise a family and the cost of real estate is pretty insane. People are just realizing they can find a much better quality of life elsewhere.

That, and the breadsticks at Olive Garden are actually pretty tasty ;)

Being able to get and see anything on the Internet - combined with cheap and abundant air travel - has helped to minimize NYC importance. And the rise of LA and the South.

But walkability still matters. That’s where the Northeast cities, Chicago, SF will always have an attraction. Newer cities just haven’t been able to make it work organically. I also think some of the walkable suburbs of the Northeast cities could be attractive, cheaper alternatives.

Lots to do in Atlanta? Oh, please.

I’m sure it’s fine if you have family or a connection but Ive found Atlanta trashy, tacky, uninteresting and not very walkable. I would take Houston/Montrose over Atlanta.

And I'm sure Atlanta appreciates not having yet another snotty nose queen walking its streets looking for something or someone to do.

R266, although loads of people leave New York daily, loads of people are also moving in at the same time. That's something I think all these "global" cities like NYC, Paris, London, etc. have in common. Their appeal as "global" cities--as opposed to more regional cities like Chicago, Manchester--is what attracts so many upper and lower class people while repelling more and more middle class people every day.

The article clearly states R271 with those moving out it is a net loss for NYC.

True R272-- if you read it R271, it notes that NYC gets a sizable number of immigrants from outside the US, but that number is still outweighed by the number of people leaving

R272, I know there are more people leaving than entering, but is it really that big of a number? The NYC area has about 20 million people.

[quote] [R272], I know there are more people leaving than entering, but is it really that big of a number? The NYC area has about 20 million people.

Hmmmm. If only someone had posted an article that explicitly laid out the exact numbers.....

New Yorkers and New Jersyans are moving to Dallas, Houston and Austin. They can enjoy the same benefits as NYC, but at half the cost. The people are also nicer and just as good-looking.

Austin has lots of yummy food trucks!

Austin is hardly cheap these days so budget wisely.

It's all relative, if you are moving from San Francisco to Austin which is a popular move, it's still a lot cheaper.

Jesus H .. why are we soooooooo fucking up Austins ass? Drink the kool-aid much?

Austin was ok thirty years ago but whatever charms it had as a music Mecca have faded and the natives have moved elsewhere.

One answer to people asking about Boise ...

[quote]is the rat race way worse in NYC than other cities?

YES. It is. With bells on.

[quote}Chime in if you live in cities other than what’s listed above.

Yet we have 17 posts in this thread from YourMillennialCunt, who has always lived on the UWS, I believe.

No, R284, he lived in Los Angeles for two years, London for six months and Princeton, NJ for four, (not counting summers)

Leave YourMillennialFriend alone or I’ll stick you with a shiv!

I live in a flyover state, big city for the state. It's fine. Real estate is affordable, lifestyle is affordable, our money buys more, and people are nicer. I'd never live in NYC or any other expensive area. There's just not that much more to offer.

YMF seems to get more hate, but for my money he isn't as tenth as obnoxious as NativeNYer.

Hilarious r236! LA really is Strip Mall City. It's not nearly as glamorous as you see it represented in the media. It's largely a dump. And huge swaths of it make you feel like you're in a Third World country.

Seriously, I live in Vegas and its amazing! Close enough to Palm Springs and Los Angeles to take a break, great cost of living, awesome restaurants, great live shows, we get EVERY concert in the US. Gay life is pretty good and we have TONS of tourists if your into hook ups!

YMF must’ve been a Tigertone.

[quote]r277 Austin has lots of yummy food trucks!

Shut up, fatty.

UMF is the new Kirker.

No, Kirker was a smug, insufferable asswipe. YMF isn't like that, so far.

Atlanta is a big bore as some have stated already. There are a few bashing threads on here about it. Several bitches defend it viciously which I don't get.

Walkability is the only fucking thing I miss about NYC.

Funny as hard as the OP tried this is just the same old NY v LA thread with a smattering of Atlanta and Texas.

[R292] No you shut up, I’m getting my pussy pumped right and left AND enjoying yummy food truck food.

Atlanta is nothing but snot nosed queens. That's what makes it both sad and laughable at the same time.

R297 I sure did try! Nobody can pull their heads out of their asses and recognize there’s a whole world out there. It shows how severely limited gays are, I suspect one of the reasons why is many of these people on here that post are older. They had to run away to be themselves.

I appreciate your effort, OP. Unfortunately, many New Yorkers and Angelenos can be as provincial as someone from Little Rock or Salt Lake City or Terre Haute. It's hard for them to envision the world that exists outside the boundaries of their own burghs.

R301 Yeah and I appreciate that you posted here. I don’t know a lot about Fort Worth. That was the whole point of this thread. There’s so many cool little gay communities across the country . I guess they don’t know about datalounge.

Fun in Fort Worth,

[Quote][R232] I’ve heard really good things about Raleigh and Durham. There are tons of universities in the area so people are very well educated. The job market is fantastic I think even better than Charlotte.

Thanks, r237. From what I've researched, it seems that Durham is the "gayer" of the two cities, with more diversity among its population. I'd like to check it out sometime in the near future.

[quote] Atlanta is nothing but snot nosed queens. That's what makes it both sad and laughable at the same time.

You got turned down a lot there obviously.

If you're planning on moving, here is a map of where you should go.

Thanks R306. One of the major issues in NYC. After spending a month in CA, it makes me crazy what a hassle lot is in NYC.

OP, there aren’t any good places to have brunch outside of those places. What’s the point?

R308 Have brunch at IHOP

Well, there's always Walla Walla . . .

[R309] IHOP is for fatties! Ew no!

Do Denny's or Waffle House do brunch?

Provincetown the largest percentage of gays and same sex couples.

Waffle House is one of those things summed up perfectly in the quote “candied apples on a stick - delicious looking, disappointing to eat.” I want WH to be amazing, it looks all fantastic & retro not-cool cool from your car; but the food is just... meh. Not Denny’s nasty, just bland and serviceable and not at all what you wish it would be.

That is crushing to hear R314.

Waffle House is cheap and always open, we'd wonder in at 3am after a night of partying.

If you are expecting high quality food you seem to be missing the point of Waffle House. It is affordable and reliable.

I grew up with Greek diners on Long Island; I was expecting a chain version of those.

Was Kirker the one with a furniture store?

Yes, he opened a high-end furniture store (with Daddy's money) right in the middle of the last recession. It didn't last long.

Kirker is the aces!

Portland ME anyone?

Des Moines anyone? Lol

Seattle is overrated.

What's the gay scene in places like St. Louis or Tulsa?

r324 yes very curious

Nashville blew me away. I didn't think I'd like it a all (I have no interest in country music) but the people were great and there was a lot to do. It's not some redneck shithole, it's quite laid-back and welcoming.

R326, Nashville is one of the mid-sized cities that will continue to attract people from all economic ranges--lower, middle and upper. It has one of the largest share of advanced industry job growth in the country. The cities that are getting these jobs are the ones that will continue to have a growing middle class.

Let's be honest, the cities in states known for being red and regressive only become progressive when people from elsewhere (be they from the coasts or immigrants) choose to move there. It's never something that organically happens from within. Outsiders who are liberal are the only reason these flyover/southern cities flourish.

I left the USA about 11 years ago and permanently live abroad, alternating among three homes in two beautiful mountain countries in Latin America. I would never live in the USA again, especially now that it's being destroyed by its own government.

r329 do you not see the irony in your statement?

I live in Houston and absolutely love it. I have 2 gay male friends in their 20s who decided (separately) to move to LA. Both were back in less than a year and both said it was hell on earth. Every time I go there I enjoy it less and less. The sparkle is definitely gone. Now in my free time when there I get the hell out of town and go hiking in Malibu or beaching in Laguna.

I like to visit LA, but the traffic would drive me crazy if I had to endure it on a daily basis.

No human being should live in Los Angeles.

I don't think any do R333.

LA is a great city. It doesn't deserve the hate it gets.

R335 It's not for the weak

R335 - what’s so great about LA? Last few times I was there the traffic was gridlocked, the food and hotel was overpriced, the people seemed stressed and anxious, and having to see homeless trash and drug addicts everywhere was uncomfortable. It’s an awful place full of narcissistic, empty, unfulfilled people. I hope it’s the site of the first nuclear attack on the US.

R337 One can dream huh?

R335 - Griffith Park, Runyon Canyon, catching a show at The Hollywood Bowl, the beaches, charming old towns like Pasadena and Monrovia. There's more to LA than the homeless in Venice and cheesy Hollywood Blvd. And traffic sucks in any fucking city. Enough with that excuse!

LA is better than San Francisco. The homeless people in LA are largely bussed in from other cities. In San Francisco, the people celebrate homelessness in all its gory, including pooping everywhere and shooting up, as an act of "freedom of expression". How San Francisco of them!

*glory* not gory

The homeless are just as bad in Chicago. The only differences is our homeless here don’t want to be actors.

OP is from Dallas and is trying to either A) provoke us all, or B) try to help establish Dallas as some kind of major city in some weird twisted way. Probably the former.

I couldn't imagine being homeless in a city that has real winters

R342, not at all. I have never seen the homeless in Chicago behave like the ones on the west coast, aside from a few cases. It is so different on the west coast.

R345 I can see your point. They are a lot more aggressive on the West Coast. I see the same homeless people on my walk to Damon every day it’s like they don’t move for months even in the winter.

Boston seems to have no homeless. However cold and expensive, it’s socially supportive and rarely see the volume of people in need like SF or LA.

Boston has homeless people. It’s not on the scale of LA. I am curious about Houston but the weather is a turnoff.

R348 - please google the “Montrose” neighborhood if you’re considering Houston. I’ve traveled the world and consider this my favorite neighborhood. After living here a few months I did adjust to the heat and humidity. You’re either always in air conditioning or at the pool in the summer.

Oh, and they LOVE gay men here in Montrose. It’s not anything like the conservative rest of the area. You can feel free to be openly flaming gay, although most of my friends are more subtle about it.

Yes Houston is WAY better than Austin

What if you don’t want to live in a suburban nightmare, drive everywhere and take care of a yard? The only cities I can think of that fit that bill or Chicago or New York.

South Orange County, CA representin’

[R352] Try Downtown Scranton, PA for that. Everything is right there, even your Subway, Dunkin’ and gyms.

Another vote for Montrose - as a non-Texan, one of the few places I would live. But you just trade the brutal cold of winter - and not being outside - with the brutal heat humidity of summer - where you can’t be outside. And you can likely afford to have and park a car.

Vegas is the place that do chose to reside at this time. There are many gentlemen that I do enjoy there.

R356 Thank you for letting us know Laquan. We do appreciate you responding to this thread. Now what I’m a go ahead and do is compliment you on your fabulous strayer college black lady english skills

Is Montrose welcoming to gay women?

Bump

R358 - Montrose is not super friendly to gay women. However there’s a great pub with a huge patio full of games that gay women flock to. It’s called Pearl Bar. The owner does a lot of fundraising as well.

Is there a walkable area of Houston?

Calgary Canada here 🇨🇦 home of the Calgary Stampede, Gay Rodeo .... and an ocean of bottoms (please send some tops ASAP)

Too many bottoms migrated to Cowtown in hopes of finding that elusive swaggering cowboy power top?

Bump

Montrose seemed pretty unimpressive when I visited. Sort of like Atlanta's Midtown.

Montrose is a wonderful, colorful, vibrant, diverse neighborhood comprised of students, gays, young professionals, and artists. It was recently voted number one neighborhood of a major city to live in by US News and World Report. Please do the research and check it out before you call it “unimpressive.”

One could say that about Long Beach but it’s nothing but thugs, people dressed in hot topic and midget uncut Latinos who scream at the top of their lungs in pretty much every establishment and bar in the city.

^^heaven on earth!

I love the Montrose - but calling it number one is going too far. It’s decent for what it is - an affordable gay neighborhood that is somewhat walkable (like 6 out of 10 on a scale) which is rare for the South and West. Better than any other major city in the South in my opinion and not the cesspool that is Florida. Growing and diverse are big pluses. But if I can afford to live in NY or SF, I wouldn’t choose to live there.

I live in Palm Springs. On my bike ride today I saw five gay couples holding hands. Can you do that in Akron? Can you pull that gig off in Indianapolis? How about some bland suburban tract outside Kansas City? The ONLY places I have seen guys hold hands are Manhattan, suburban New Jersey, Los Angeles and here. I lived in Phoenix for years and never saw that except during a gay pride parade. I know the coast people get tiresome and boring, and Palm Springs is only 100 miles from LA, but might as well be fucking Mars, but that's what I know. I know guys can show affection in public in these places. At least what my experience is.

Good point R370. There is a reason gays pay to live in cosmopolitan progressive cities - expensive but in a way it’s an easier life. I’ve found it’s worth living in a small 1 BR to be able to live in a great city. Others may prefer space to cultural progressiveness - every one is different.

US News and World Report? Is that rag still around?

R370 and R371, a gay or lesbian couple could hold hands in the Philadelphia suburb where I live and not be bothered, but they would stand out simply because it's unusual. They wouldn't be stared at, but they would get quick second looks that a heterosexual couple would not.

Most people, gay or straight, don't like standing out; I think gays are paying to live in places that are not only progressive but where there are simply a lot of other gays.

True R373. Just like segregation by choice. There is a comfort in being among your people who think about many things in the same way and have similar interests and lifestyles. Even when I lived in a progressive suburb, I felt out of place not being a family with kids. They were accepting but had different life priorities.

Of course, I know many who hate the gay ghetto. But I think it can be wonderful for at least a brief time in a gay mans life to feel like you are in the majority.

I choose to live in the gayborhood in my major US city. I’m totally comfortable and it’s nice seeing other homos everywhere, and not being the only gay couple in the restaurant, store, bar, etc. I’m very attractive, so I’m still noticed, but it’s nice feeling I’m not alone. When I don’t feel like being noticed, I put on a hat, large sunglasses, and baggy clothes and that does the trick.

R375=Greta Garbo

I know there’s plenty of “Flyoverstan” gays on this site, but I genuinely feel sorry for them. What a waste to not live a fabulous gay life in a world-class city. Instead, they choose quiet, breeder-type lifestyles in the suburbs. They’re missing out on the arts, the excitement of a bustling downtown winter night, the Sunday brunches with tables full of cackling homos, and the endless entertainment options available. How can they be satisfied with such a meaningless life in a square state?

R377, save your pity. Perhaps they lived in the world you describe for a while, enjoyed it, but have now moved on to a quieter life.

Also, being fabulous and having brunch with a table "full of cackling homos" does not equal a meaningful life for everyone.

R378 Agreed .. At some point you grow up and move on to other things

What is it with gays and brunch? Get over it. R377, could you be more condescending and out-of-touch?

Newsflash R377: We have the arts, brunch, entertainment, and winter in Flyoverstan too. Those things aren't exclusive to the big cities on the coasts.

I like seasons, so I don’t live in L.A.

R381, do you...also have running water and electricity?

As someone that manages facilities at an executive level, I can tell you that one thing New York has everywhere, even in the nicest buildings, is insect and rodent infestations. Gross.

Ah. Ignore shows that R377 is the gay touting the fabulousness of Houston Montrose. Guess what. Houston is in Flyoverstan too. So don't feel sorry for yourself, R377. Live your best fabulous life in your sad, drab little burg.

What’s the deal with promoting Houston? Seriously!

R377 Everything you just described sounds really dreadful to me. But to each, his own.

I live abroad, as far away from all that as possible, and have everything I could ever want and need.

Houston is a shithole. Stop trying to make it happen.

R381 - what comprises your definition of “arts” in your jerkwater village and what I define “arts” as in my world-class city are clearly two different concepts. You don’t have access to anything I would consider creative or artistic. When is the last time “Hamilton” was performed in your town? Thought so.

R381 - what comprises your definition of “arts” in your jerkwater village and what I define “arts” as in my world-class city are clearly two different concepts. You don’t have access to anything I would consider creative or artistic. When is the last time “Hamilton” was performed in your town? Thought so.

R390, Really, your benchmark for creativity is "Hamilton"? I'm sure everyone on this board is so JEALOUS of you, as you drink your mimosas with your cackling gays all wearing berets as you relish your superiority while spending $200 to see "Hamilton", the greatest artistic offering in humanity's existence. I live in Chicago, but it's not hard to fathom why not everyone wants to live in a big city.

I sort of see the gays that live in the flyover states as frightened to fully come out of the closet. It’s like they want to live the straight life in public and do their “dirty” homo acts in private. What a sad way to celebrate life.

R392 No we just don’t want the stress of living in a big city. I live in Ann Arbor and I love it. I have a great job and amazing friends and that’s all that matters. Not everybody wants the same thing. I have enough disposable income left to travel.

Maybe it’s the big city gays that are frightened to leave their mimosa bubbles. Why do segments of the population have to be segregated anyway?

[quote]When is the last time “Hamilton” was performed in your town? Thought so.

June, 2020

Also, I can view this whenever I want.

Or this.

Or this.

[R389] Hamilton is sooooooo mainstream, i.e. basic. There are a lot of major artists that choose to live in places like New Mexico and Texas because it allows for more space to experiment. They don’t need or want to be enveloped by what others are doing.

^^^ And you have to be a millionaire to live in those places which most young artists are not. Unless they’re trust funders.

R394 that's so funny . I boarded my flight in Palm Springs and these two BEARS next to me each ordered mimosas as pre-flight beverage.

R395, how do you like living in Forth Worth (as opposed to Dallas)? Do you feel like it's too conservative?

Hopefully the pathetic gays that have to live in flyover states due to their economic situation at least have the ability to travel to civilization occasionally.

It's a mixed bag, R401. Fort Worth definitely is way more conservative than I like. But it's one of the fastest-growing cities in the country, so I hope it becomes less conservative as more people move into the area. It's approaching 1 million in population, so hopefully it will start trending more blue. But the pace of life is much more relaxed over here than in Dallas. There's a laid-back vibe here that contrasts with Dallas' pretentiousness.

R402,My economic situation is just fine. I work for a New York based company yet live in Ann Arbor so I have a New York salary and live like a king. I have about 30 restaurants within walking distance of my house. There is a huge campus in Ann Arbor you might’ve heard of it… University of Michigan. There are tons of cultural offerings art shows and very cool indie movies shown on campus and off.

"DFW is the 4th largest metro in the us. That’s why"

R7 - I thought in was Houston, Texas.

R404 - how often do you travel to NYC, Chicago, SF, or Boston?

R405, the city of Houston has a larger population than either Dallas or Fort Worth. But the DFW metropolitan area is larger than the Houston metropolitan area.

DFW metro area = 7.5 million

Houston metro area - 6.9 million

R407 - Which do you prefer Houston or DFW? Just curious.

R408 - HOUSTON by far! 😊

I grew up in New York/Jersey and I now live in central Florida. I have my own home; love my flower garden. Lesbians here join or attend a local lgbt choir; since I can't sing, I attend. We also have monthly beach trips, monthly potlucks. Some are into half marathons; Disney sponsored. Then there's a theme park group, a farmer's market group, and a yoga group. Magic games and predators games are also big; we get free tickets from our employer, as well as free tickets to the performing arts center. Life is good here; you live like an executive if you earn a hundred grand. I'm happy here.

As has been discussed Houston>>DFW. Houston has a core downtown - DFW has 2. Living in the Loop in Houston is very different than living in downtown Fort Worth. As a NYer, I find Houston one of the only non-coastal cities that are interesting. Diverse people, fantastic food, walkable gayborhood, modern art, great flight hub.

Houston has some of the best art museums and n the country. All that oil money well spent.

R410 - I live in Southwest Florida and it is very BOHO and alternative lifestyle friendly too.

I've lived in all three cities, R408. I don't know if I prefer any one over the others. All have their pros and cons. Houston and Dallas aren't significantly different from each other. Like I said above, Fort Worth has a more laid back vibe. I could live in any of them and still have a happy and fulfilling life.

Doesn’t it seem like NYers base their entire identities on being NYers? Why move somewhere and compare it to New York? It’s a different place with different experiences.

R415, especially the ones who move to LA. They cannot shut up about the lack of good pizza, bagels, how it's not Manhattan, etc.

That’s because having lived in Manhattan is a status symbol for us. Less than 1% of the US population will ever have the financial resources to live here, and I for one, am proud of that.

I'm glad I had 8 years of living in NYC in my 20s. It was exciting and eye-opening. I'm also glad NOT to be living in NYC in my early 60s. Several posters above referenced the art and cultural scene in NYC as the reason they could not live elsewhere. I'm a professional musician who also worked with dancers in NY as I was attending graduate school and afterwards. If I were still living in NY doing the same thing, I'd be earning about $35,000/year. Which means, not only would I not be living in Manhattan, I'd be sharing an apartment in a partially burnt-out block of the South Bronx somewhere, or, like thousands and thousands of dancers, musicians, actors, and visual artists, I would have fled NY long ago for someplace where every moment is not a struggle. To be poor in NY is harder than elsewhere, because it also means that public transit is your only option, and most buildings you can afford to live in are walk-ups, so every grocery bag, every laundry bag , every stick of furniture is hauled up flights of stairs. To be poor in NY also means that the vast majority of cultural offerings are out of your reach.

Big coastal cities are wonderful for gay people IF they are in high-paying professions (finance, medicine, law and the like). They are also fine for someone quite young, who doesn't mind sharing a 2 bedroom apartment with 4 or 5 other people. They are NOT wonderful for middle-aged or older gays of moderate income, who want to live comfortably, who want to be able to afford to attend cultural offerings, who don't want to live in neighborhoods where they have to rubberneck constantly because of fear of violence and attacks. I have a social circle which includes about 15 gay people I get together with on a regular basis, and about 20 or so straight but supportive people. We all go out regularly for drinks, attend the symphony together, have dinner parties for one another, meet to see films or the opera, hike together, view one another's gardens. It's not the desert of lack of social opportunities painted above.

Where did you end up R418 ? Always looking for suggestions of post-NYC life. I agree if you’re not young and/or rich, NYC gets old after a while.

You’re value as a person is not contingent on your zip code. That’s ridiculously shallow.

R420 - of course your value is not ENTIRELY contingent upon your zip code, but I think a very LARGE percentage of your worth is derived from where you reside. For example, the residents of Bellaire, CA are much better people than those from Mobile, AL. No one can dispute that.

R406 I’m in Boston and New York every month for meetings. I’m also in Montreal every other month. I’m not missing out on anything. I get my fix of the craziness for a few days and I’m ready to go home.

[R421] I’m imagining you in a studio apartment in Beverly Hills wearing Gucci loafers. A white lap dog reclines on the leopard print chaise next to you. After you finish the post, you gaze at a photo of you and 3 close friends dining at Spago and say, “Bijan, you are so missed!”

"Bellaire, CA" . . . new to me . . .

R423 - Replace “studio apartment in Beverly Hills@ with “3-level modern masterpiece in the Hollywood Hills.”

Hollywood Hills, R425? I'm dubious.

Bellaire is a suburban city fully surrounded by the city of Houston, TX. From what I recall, it's very nice. I'd be happy to live there.

But it's not - DEFINITELY not - Bel Air, Los Angeles, California, as you seem to want us to think.

[R425] So the only thing I got wrong was the house? I’m so good at this!

Tell us more about the modern masterpiece, who’s the architect? Or was it designed by an “architectural designer”? 3 stories sounds a little heavy handed, even in the Hollywood Hills.

R427, he's the Houston queen. Probably never been to LA. And he's a troll.

I posted about this on one of the other threads. I moved abroad about ten years ago and bought a 46,000 sq-ft historic castle. It took nearly two years to renovate. Probably my favorite part about it is that it has an original chapel, in one of the towers, with stained-glass windows all around. I put a 9-foot Fazioli concert grand piano in it and now use it as a music room/concert space.

I like that I have mountain and forest views in all directions. No neighbors. New York can't hold a candle to this.

... it also helped that my husband, thankfully, wanted to undertake this project as much as I did. I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat.

[R429] sounds like you have room to host all of DL.

R429 would never invite large crowds. She’s far too protective of her priceless antiques.

Dallas?

Is anyone in Delaware? Lewes or Milton are on my retirement list. My relatives in NY/NJ all have vacation homes there and will ultimately retire in Delaware.

[R434] Delaware? Yuck! Too many horseshoe crabs.

R7 - Dallas is definitely NOT the 4the largest city in the US. It is 9th or 10th depending on which source you refer to.

Houston is 4th. Has been for decades.

[R436] Houston? I’ve never thought about Houston. What does it offer your average homosexual gentleman?

City limits are completely arbitrary r436. You look at city limits and Oklahoma City and Boston are the same size.

Most people know to use metro area. DFW is the 4th largest metro area in the US, Houston follows right after at number 5.

R437 - there is an active gay community here and it is large but fragmented. We have had a lesbian mayor followed by a rumored (not not confirmed) gay mayor who is in office now.

Good arts venues, dining and some theater.

R438 - If you are actually in Dallas, I think you’ll agree with me that most gay men won’t even acknowledge that Ft. Worth exists, let alone spend any time there.

If you’re using two combined cities and all the suburbs in the middle to establish a higher rank, go right ahead. But the are two different worlds.

I don't live in Dallas, I fuckin hate Dallas but metro area is the common tool for discussion, not city limits.

Oooo, a Texas queens showdown! "Mah shitty city's bigger'n yers!" Hooooeeee!

R442 - Houston guy, here. It’s big enough that it should not be overlooked. AND I won’t live here forever. I’ve lived in both Dallas and Houston.

Dallas is the most pretentious city in the US, with absolutely no justification for it. And Houston tries, but it cannot shake the blue-collar influences that permeate its very existence.

I’m deciding between moving to Houston and Dallas...which one is better? I’m so torn.

Pot stirrer.

Does anyone live somewhere they don’t like? I live in the DC suburbs and don’t like it. I would never defend it like you Texans and NYers do your turf. It’s sprawling, dull, and doesn’t have much personality or surviving history. I’m moving away in a few years.

R446, I have grown up in Chicago my whole life and I have started to dislike it. I am considering moving to NYC.

[R445] I just want to find out some information, what’s wrong with that? For example, which city has more CrossFit boxes? That’s really important to me.

Having lived in LA, Houston, Atlanta and now Albuquerque, I can say the live here is far far better than those hot, humid, swamps that are basically all the same (urban sprawl strip malls, auto zone, ect). only here you get fantastic weather, mountains, lots of artists and a special cultural style that other American cities don't seem to have.

R449, how is the food there??? And the men???

Lewis and Milton - Delaware in general - is strangely depressing and blah. Even Renoboth -which is supposedly gay - has a few mixed places but is overwhelmingly middle class white families from the midAtlantic. A step up from the Jersey Shore but can’t imagine retiring there. Used to be a tax haven but now all the ancillary taxes offset much of the benefit.

The only area of DE that I think is nice is Greenville and northwest DE on border of PA which is where Winterthur/DuPont houses are and has rolling hills and open space - and is close to Philly and it’s suburbs.

R448 - go to DFW. But only the Ft. Worth side. You’ll fit right in.

Yeah - Dallas is all about brands and “fitting in with the right crowd”(which is laughable). R448 should go there. As someone said, Houston has a more working class - and less pretentious - vibe. People eat - and eat well. Some of the best food in the US. Not a lot of muscle Marys or Prada lipgloss types.

I’m hoping to find a gay owned or gay friendly CrossFit box, it’s a great way to make friends while not drinking. I’m into being active rather than sitting in a bar. Hey if Dallas has even one of those, that’s awesome. If Houston is more working class, probably unlikely to find that there.

R451, thanks.

I recommend living in a Big 10 college town. It’s liberal, civil and sophistication with none of the big city tension. The only downside is that gay life is dull.

R446 - I’m in Seattle and ready to move.

I’ve lived in DC, Dallas, Atlanta, LA, Tampa and Albuquerque. I like Dallas the best. Dallas has a faster pace than any of those cities except DC. There is a winter here. There are people from all over (the growth is unbelievable), which has helped make the city more cosmopolitan. And, it doesn’t flood here every 3 weeks like it does now in Houston.

Austin is overrated.

Just north of Houston.

R458. I love my Dallas.

R461 may be the only Dallas proponent on DL. Never heard a good thing about it on here. Seems like everyone hates it.

Article claims West Seattle is now called New California because of all the transplants.