"I'm Coming, Bud" and other notable memories of those Magnificent Midwestern Cities

Reva driving off the bridge. It aired 29 years ago!

Wish they had kept Reva dead. Kim Zimmer's ham fisted acting was annoying. The ratings went way up when she, Newman, Aleksander left in 1990. Of course their careers went nowhere and they all came back.

Caught some of Body Heat (Kathleen Turner/William Hurt) and forgot Kim Zimmer was in it

So, fix yourself a tall glass of iced tea and come meet us on the Snyder Easedropping Porch

Oh, dear.

When I was a teenager watching GL in the summer it was the Beth/Phillip/Rick/Mindy storyline. I still remember Mindy coming into the stable and saying something like "what a beautiful animal" and eyeballing Phillip.

I was rooting for Mindy, Beth was a boring sad sack. Also I rooted for Nola to get with Kelly instead of boring Morgan. The bad girls are always more fun.

Another memorable scene from my youth was Holly charging Roger with rape and Ed admitting under oath he loved Holly.

The actress who played Vanessa on GL was Meryl Streep's sister-in-law

AsTheWorldStillTurns has been adding new stuff on Youtube this week! My weekend is made, bishes!

I'd also like to remind the DL P&G fans to thank our Youtubers in the comments sections and like, subscribe, share, etc. They work hard to keep our memories alive, and they deserve to be recognized.

Why do gays always root for the villians?

Beth was not boring nor a sad sack. She was one of the rare characters to have been involved in 2 super couples. She had an edge to her- she stood up to her abusive step father (played by the wonderful James Rebhorn), moved out at 17 to become independent, left Phillip and moved on to Lujack, she got Lujack out of a gang and broke him out of jail, she always stood up to Alan and also stood up to Roger. I loved her exchanges with India. India always had great one liners but they rolled off Beth's back much to India's chagrin.

Kim Zimmer could be amazing but they completely over wrote for her. It was unnecessary. She was best when she had a really good enemy who was a great actress, too, like Michelle Forbes' Sonny/Solita or Cynthia Watros' Annie.

The ratings when up in 1990 because people were starting to hear how great the show was again after several dreadful years. The show was steadily improving from mid-1988. 88-93 were some of its best years ever.

Is there video of Judi Evan's last day on GL as Beth? I believe she was being kidnapped by Prof Blackburn. I've never been able to find that scene.

Honestly, Aunt Liz.

Cecile? I mean, really.

[quote] So, fix yourself a tall glass of iced tea and come meet us on the Snyder Easedropping Porch

No "oh, dear" about that at all! It was only too easy to listen in on that porch.

Of course, Emma had a spy cam on that pond. When Dusty went skinny dipping she would disappear for hours at a time!!

I have a question. What did some of these Proctor & Gamble soap stars make salary-wise in the 70’s before the soap became big? What were Beverley McKinsey, Vicky Wyndham, Elizabeth Hubbard, Eileen Fulton bringing in in the the late ‘70s?

R14 I doubt any of them were making huge salaries. Soaps were considered more solid work in those days - they were undoubtedly paid well but not breaking the bank.

Wyndham probably got the most, I would guess. Fulton perhaps as well, though there were plenty of other female leads at WT. Hubbard may have stayed at a reasonably modest pay scale because she kept coming and going.

PS by "solid" work I meant a solid paycheck. The big salaries didn't really come to be until the 80s, after Luke and Laura and La Lucci.

Beth's return from the dead in 1989 was so well written and gave so much material to all involved. Pam Long did a masterful job of explaining what happened, getting all the details just right. Even James Rebhorn came back as Bradley. I liked how they explained Beth, after so much tragedy with being raped by her step-father Bradley, losing Lujack tragically just months before, and Prof Blackburn (?), her kidnapper, attempting to rape her caused a psychological break, she killed him, lost her memory and went mute.

Not sure of exact numbers, but my understanding is soap salaries didn't start going through the roof until the early 1980s, with all the hoopla connected to Luke and Laura and national attention on soaps in general, as r16 says.

Up until the mid 1970s, P&G didn't even want its actors to do any publicity for the shows. They didn't want the public to know the actors names. They wanted to maintain the illusion you were a voyeur sneaking a peak into people's real life.

Eileen Fulton was probably the first soap actor whose name became well known to the public. Maybe Mary Stuart. But as a general rule, the shows discouraged actor publicity even thought that publicity benefited the show. The more publicity they got, the more power the actors got when it came to negotiating contracts.

The biggest soap stars pre-1970 were Mary Stuart, Rosemary Prinz, Eileen Fulton and Jonathan Frid, the daytime mags started around 68 (Afternoon TV) and that made a lot of 'stars'. Days of our Lives had a killer line up of stars who dominated for years, so did Another World.

Stu Bergman looked to me like an old man on Search For Tomorrow when in reality he was probably only in his 40's when I watched it as a kid.

Here's a nice article from August on Kathryn Hays. She's getting a star on the walk of fame in her home town.

I know some of us were concerned several months ago because she looked so frail but she looks lovely here. She also talks like she's constantly up & going to various events in her hometown.

[quote] She also talks like she's constantly up

You got that right, toots!

R21 I just saw that a few days ago!

I wish I could be at that event in Princeton. I'd love to walk up to her and say, "Watch it, kiddo!"

Bye bye, Blackbird!

Zimmer with the right material was thrilling to watch. No one can cry like her. The Sonni/Solita story line was the best with the great Michelle Forbes. So many twists and turns and high drama.

I get hot when I imagine Josh Lewis saying "I'm coming, Bud" instead.

GL had times when the quality was off the charts. I think more so than any other soap. GL's highs were higher than them all, IMO. It is no wonder it stayed high up in the ratings for decades.

I agree with the poster up thread who said the show gained viewers after word spread the show was top notch again in the early 90's. Some tuned back in for Beth's return in '89 but it was a fairly long story that took its time but the show had been ascendant since the year before. The casting was superb from 88-95 for the most part.

I loved the Brent/Marian story line. It was dark but it was very well done. The guy who played Brent/Marian was so good. The show wasn't afraid to "go there" during the story. It was gripping (MARY) and made you wonder how far they'd go.

If you could point someone to just one storyline on all the P&G soaps, what would those storylines be?

R28

Just one? The Lucinda/Lily/Iva maternity story on ATWT. Great writing, great acting, just the right amount of build-up, the mother of all reveals (pun intended), and such satisfying fallout that lasted for years.

I'll go with GL because that is the show I watched:

-Four muskateers -Beth return from the dead (I agree upthread) -Sonni/Solita

R30, your own maternity story, the one that pulled in Iva, Andrew, Caleb, and Holden, was one of my favorite stories of all time.

I couldn't pick just one, but I'd agree with the original Lucinda/Iva/Lily story, which was just superb all the way around.

I'd also go 2 for 2 re: Lisa Brown and pick her story with Kelly - I loved her rehabilitation but I have known people like Nola and it was captivating.

Four Musketeers/Lujack and anything with Alan and Alexandra in the beginning was captivating.

At ATWT they handled Sabrina badly as a character once she was there, but I think finding her was one of the best stories they ever did, reaching back into history. Could say nearly the same about Scott Eldridge.

It's harder to say for Lemay's AW since so much of it was character nuances and not heavy plot.

I picked one of the last good stories, the John Dixon/Lisa Grimaldi malpractice s/l. Eileen Fulton has always been an awful actress in my opinion, but she really got it together when she played Lisa as a a revenge-bent widow out to crucify the doctor she thought let her husband die. She ruins him, but devious John exacts his own revenge by wooing Lisa, getting her to agree to marry him, and then humiliating her at the engagement party. The scene where he destroys her on a large video screen in front of all her family and friends is my favorite ATWT scene.

Of course, as soon as this storyline ended, the show turned to shit.

AW = The Red Swan! Just kidding.

It's not an entire storyline, just one hilarious ORD moment, when Courtney the Cop is going through Donna's belongings after (I think) a robbery. Courtney picks up a vase, a Ming vase. And we know it is a Ming vase because Donna spells it out: "That's a Ming vase Courtney. M-I-N-G!"

And another time when Jake and Donna are having their affair, they're eating deli sandwiches in the office, and Jake asks Donna if she'd like his pickle. "You wanna eat my pickle, Donna?"

One of the worst storylines on GL was when Ed slept with Lillian and after Maureen she found out she got in a car crash and died. It was out of character for Ed (and Lillian)

R37 Ummm I pretty sure it was not out of character for Ed. Lillian was lonely and scared having faced death with her cancer scare. Beth was in Arizona serving her parole with Phillip so she couldn't come back. It is classic soap and had they not killed Maureen, the fallout and drama could have been epic. As it is, her death was right up there with the most shocking. Yet they got little mileage out of it.

Maybe I was young and naive back then r38 but I always thought Ed was the faithful true blue type is what I meant

R39 I was young as well (9) but my mama sure told me stories about all the characters from "back in the day" so I knew Ed was capable.

I always thought Ed and Ross and Ed's brother Mike were the good guys on the show. Are you sure r40 your mama was talking about him?

In Ed's drinking days, he definitely slept with women other than his wife or girlfriend

And let's not forget Michelle was a product of Ed sleeping with Claire while in Beirut looking for a presumed dead Fletcher and Maureen.

So, yes, Ed is capable of having an affair and not always the upstanding man many thought he was.

R41 They were good guys but Ed had a darker past- cheating and drinking and hitting. He was no saint.

Makes sense r42 r43. My mom and grandma watched GL so it was fun to watch it with them in the summer and sometimes after school. My earliest memories are of Ben and Evie and her evil mother tried poisoning her. My mom also watched Search for Tomorrow and I can remember Eunice being shot by Jennifer. Later on when I was in high school Luke and Laura were really popular so then I started trying to watch GH too.

I think Evie's mother was Mrs. Wexler (?) and I meant she tried to poison Ben

Oops I think Eve's mother was Mrs. Stapleton, Mrs. Wexler was Amanda's mother. Sorry to be a thread hog.

R29

P&G had so many outstanding storylines it's hard to narrow it down.

I'd have to say for me it's a tie between ATWT's Iva/Lily/Lucinda's maternity reveal and AW's Who Shot Jake story.

In my mind the late 70s GL was wonderful. Loved the Alan/Elizabeth/Justin/Jackie storyline along with the Phillip parentage story. Roger/Holly/Ed/Rita was gold. I really enjoyed the Adam Thorpe/Barbara Norris relationship. Tim Werner! Also really loved the beginings of the Carrie Todd story. I also liked the Spalding Enterprises stories and loved Diane Ballard.

Rita was probably the best female character ever. So much more nuanced that over the top Reva Shayne.

GL had so many wonderful actors throughout the years.

[quote]If you could point someone to just one storyline on all the P&G soaps, what would those storylines be?

The Mac-Rachel-Iris triangle on AW. Spectacular performers, literate scripts and absolutely (though subtly) twisted.

Holly/Roger rape trial and when Ed got on the stand he admitted under oath that he loved Holly

R48

Didn't Phillip's paternity reveal happen at the country club.? I remember it coming to a head there. I also remember Berneau & Aleksander had on white tux jackets.

The Springfield Country Club sure did have all sorts of drama go down thru the years.

Yes, R51, the reveal happened in 1983. But it was building up for almost 6 years since the Spaldings came to Springfield in 1977.

That was the good thing about soaps back in the day. The stories built slowly over a long period of time.

And then when Phillip took over the company and sort of one upped Alan at his own game, that also happened in the Country Club, and they made a point of drawing parallels to the night Phillip found out about his parentage.

IT WAS GRIEF SEX!!!!!!!

We used to call Claire E-Claire, because she was always filled with all of Springfield's finest cream.

R34, that was the last great storyline on ATWT. Surprising that it happened a couple of years after Marland's death. I wonder if it was something he'd plotted out before he died.

I doubt that, R56. Was it written by that dastardly duo Black and Stern?

Everyone remember the actress who played Liberty?

She married Goldie & Kurt's son last week.

No, r57, it was by Richard Culliton.

DAMN YOU R52!

I watched that one scene and fell down a GL rabbit hole for a while.

R60 Although I didn't watch GL until much later in the 00's when it wasn't very good (Millennial) my mom has gotten me in a GL rabbit hole so many times ever since I had to care for her after an illness. Ever since, I fall into GL rabbit holes all the time. That show was freakin' great.

[quote]We used to call Claire E-Claire, because she was always filled with all of Springfield's finest cream.

Did E-Claire ever get any of that Kelly Nelson cream? That would be the finest Springfield had to offer!

I think Claire was a bit after that - she was a Pam Long creation.

Claire was, in fact, first paired with Kelly.

Really? I must have missed that.

Yes, Claire was initially paired with Kelly Nelson after she joined the show in late June 1983. They both lived in Ed's garage apartment. But the pairing only lasted about 6 months as JWS left the show in early 1984.

But the pairing was included in the GL opening that debuted in Aug 1983. Go to the 12 second mark.

That opening also has a shot of Mindy doing yoga and Phillip sitting on the sofa, leaning against his leg, hiding his erection. Go to the 24 second mark.

When John Wesley Shipp left the show in 1984, did they give him a proper send off? Or did he just fade into the background never to be mentioned again?

Bert sucked his cock. That was the send off....

R66 I've seen that opening for, what, 35 plus years and just never realized that was Susan Pratt. I didn't recognize her with the long hair and thought it was Marsha Clark, but of course once I looked closely you're absolutely right.

Was it Kelly Nelson that finally unsealed Annie Logan's perma-sealed snatch?

Sigh

Were there ever any clues at all that JWS as Douglas Cummings was the killer and also Kim's stalker or was it a complete and utter surprise when the audience found out?

Double sigh

Looks like quite a present he's packing in those Speedos.

I remember some tell-all article I read about gay soap actors about how some photo shoots of studs would claim to have been at the "gym" but were actually taken in bathhouses. Always wondered about that JWS photoshoot you see in R73 where he is getting out of the water, if that is what they were referring to. Pretty much the only thing JWS hasn't done is say he is gay out loud.

I loved how, in the late 80s on ATWT, every character got involved and barely anybody was just standing around propping up the scenery. And the way Marland told a story. He had the plane crash in Greece with Betsy and Craig lead to the revelation of Lily's maternity, the consummation of Margo and Hal's relationship. There was so much happening those few days. It was amazing.

You mean this photo, r75

Come hither.

Those are indeed the photos, R77. The background is, of course, not the focus so it's hard to tell where it was take but I immediately thought of these photos at the time.

Nola's Casablanca fantasy where she must chose between Quint and Kelly.

This site has lots of JWS photos, including many from that bathhouse photoshoot.

I remember when they brought Roger Thorpe back on GL after his being away for 9 years and when Holly saw him unmasked in the chapel and her long, long scream of terror/rage/disbelief. The good thing is that they were then able to show flashbacks of the 1980 story when Roger kidnapped Holly and they were in the jungle.

Who was lucky enough to watch "Another World" during the Harding Lemay era?

R72

I remember my mom & her sisters being floored when it was reveal that Douglas was behind it all. It was all they could talk about.

Me, r83. It was really good. Especially for the first two years 1975-76 when it expanded to an hour and the Mac-Iris-Rachel triangle was really get started. It was must-see TV for me,

I first started watching AW sometime in 1970 when I was about 8, during the period when Walter Curtin murdered Wayne Addison and let his wife Lenore stand trial. Watched it fairly regularly for the next 2-3 years.

By 1974, I was involved with other activities and school let out later, so my watching tappered off.

However, in late 1974 when I read that AW was going to expand to an hour starting Jan. 6, 1975, I started watching again, curious to see how they could pull off an hour a day. An hour a day! Unbelievable! I didn't really intend to start watching daily again; I just wanted to see what an hour show was like.

But the show was firing on all cylinders and was so engrossing, it totally pulled me back in. They did an hour expertly. I didn't get home from school until about 3:15, but suddenly I still had 45 minutes of the show to watch rather than just 15 minutes.

That 1975-76 period was magic. Soaps at their finest. 1977 was also very good, but by that time, I was increasingly involved with after school activities, so I missed a lot of episodes. However, by that point, my mother had given me a subscription to Daytime Serial Newsletter which had DETAILED synopsis of episodes so I could keep up.

I shot SO many loads to JWS, er, well more specifically to Kelly Nelson.

We had to buy a new VCR remote b/c I broke the pause button on ours.....

I picked up my mother's "Another World" habit in the 80s before moving across the dial to Oakdale on my own. She filled me in on some of the history and said Rachel used to be a terrible villain. She also said that the original actress who played Rachel was "absolutely awful." That would've been DL fav, Robin Strasser.

My cousin used to be on "Capitol" and I would watch it all summer to see him and once left the TV on for "Guiding Light" and got to see an iconic scene as it was happening - the fight between Vanessa and Nola in their Scarlett O'Hara gowns.

LOL....

R87

Who did your relative play on Capitol?

R90, Matt McCandless #2 from 82-84. He was the one producer Jon Conboy promised viewers would stay shirtless the entire summer of 1984... and he did.

Christopher Durham is discussed here a lot. Hot guy.

Kelly and Morgan ruined 'You Needed Me' for me!

R52

I just watch your clip of Phillip confronting his 2 dads. Can someone refresh my memory on Elizabeth & Jackie. In the clip Alan says Elizabeth knew nothing. Phillip remembers Jackie always looking at him & it now makes sense to him that she was looking at her son.

How did Alan/Elizabeth wind up with Phillip? If Jackie knew why didn't she claim him?

R94, I don't remember the whole story. But its pretty well laid out in the link.

Hard to imagine but the 10 year anniversary of the final GL episode is just 10 days away! -- Sept 18, 2009

Similarly, the 9 year anniversary of the final episode of ATWT is just 9 days away! -- Sept. 17, 2010

r88 r91, did your cousin ever offer to let you suck his dick (assuming you're male)?

R97, no. That stuff only happens in the imaginations of DLers.

7 minutes of perfection. All were amazing in this scene.

Cynthia Watros. Wow

This is a heartbreaking scene.

I pray GH realizes what they have in Watros and writes to her strengths in the next few months.

Sadly, Watros has lost whatever she had

R99: The way Hubbard shows Lucinda's IMMEDIATE compassion for Iva as soon Iva reveals she was raped is a perfect example of Hubbard's genius. Lucinda would have been a flat-out monster in the hands of 99% of soap actresses.

And yes, Bryggman and Brown are perfect, too.

Every time LittleMissSeattle posts, I wish I could give her 10 WWs.

Aww... Smooches, R105.

Back atcha, Red.

For Little Miss Seattle. Starting around 3:45, the secret is revealed that's even bigger than Aaron's true parentage. Shit was so good then.

If Robin Strasser, say, had played Lucinda, in that moment she would have sneered at her.

[quote]If Robin Strasser, say, had played Lucinda, I would not have come back for a second episode.

Fixed. The things that cross some of your minds.

GL had some amazing actors/actresses over the years. Watros and Michelle Forbes were mesmerizing and gave master classes. They pushed the already great Zimmer to be on her toes.

GL nearly killed Forbes. She was at a breaking point when the Sonni/Solita story finally ended. But boy what a ride! She should have won Best Actress.

Awesome, R108! Susan Marie Snyder was so good as Julie, but I don't think I ever saw her in any other acting role. Now she's long-divorced from Peter Boynton (Tonio) and doing New Age/yoga stuff.

LMS, I don't know why they got rid of Julie Wendall. Especially since they replaced her with that dullard, Carly Tenney. She ruined the show for me.

I liked Carly in the beginning, R113, but once she became a doormat for Officer Jesus she wasn't much fun anymore.

Hated her from minute one, LMS.

I never understood the Carly Jack love. They did nothing for me.

I liked Beth and Phillip but I also liked Beth and Lujack. I've always wanted a guy to love me like they loved Beth. They really fucked up not bringing on Vincent I during the time Beth C played Beth. It is almost unbelievable they were never on the show at the same time BUT knowing GL at the time, they would have ignored it.

I might have stopped watching if they had brought Vincent/Lujack on. I can't stand that smarmy, arch-conservative ass-dropping. He marches in the anti-abortion rally in DC every year (or did then, at least). Horrid actor as well.

Susan Marie Snyder (as a blond) played Laken Lockridge very briefly on "Santa Barbara" before she went to ATWT.

I knew Vincent was crazy conservative but didn't know it went back that far.

My new favorite Twitter account:

My favorite P&G storyline was the one with Kim Hunter on Edge of Night.

Vince Irrizarry used to routinely date his soap co-stars. On GL, he dated Kristie Ferrell (Roxy Shayne) Kimberly Sims (Mindy #2) , Ann Hamilton (Mindy #3) and Barbara Crampton (Mindy #4).

And while on Santa Barbara, he dated co-star Signy Coleman and got her pregnant, so they married for a while.

Vince has said that in the mid 1990s, shortly after being let go from GL, he was going through a very "dark time." He found comfort in reading the Bible and then became both religious and conservative after that.

r123 He never stopped being physically unattractive, however.

I never thought Irizarry was physically attractive.

He's no Grant.

[quote] Sadly, Watros has lost whatever she had

I think she's struggling with alcoholism, and it's clouded her abilities, for sure.

[quote]He's no Grant.

Or John Wesley Shipp.

Grant is far more huge and pendulous, but JWS is certainly no slouch in that department.

Did Grant and Vince get along off screen? I know their characters were rivals for Beth's affection on screen, so they were often at odds on screen. But I'm wondering how they got on behind the scenes.

I don’t think they got along very well. Grant and Michael O’Leary were buddies.

Both GA and VI were very protective of the character of Beth and did not get along at all.

r127

I sadly agree... she is almost embarrassing on GH

Is CW an alchie? Nooooooo.

[quote] Did Grant and Vince get along off screen? I know their characters were rivals for Beth's affection on screen, so they were often at odds on screen. But I'm wondering how they got on behind the scenes.

I don't think they clashed per se especially, but there was a lot of ego issues at that time. When Judi won an Emmy things got weird for the four Musketeers group. She was overplayed as Reva would later be.

Grant and Vince weren't part of the cast together for very long, though, less than a year. And the two of them and Judi posed for a photo when Vince was on DAYS and Grant visited.

[quote] she is almost embarrassing on GH

I love her and am rooting for her, but I watched one of her scenes the other day and it was SO evident that she was reading cue cards. It was sad.

I don't think it was any of the 4 M's who were upset Judi won- it was others in the cast. She was the first actor in GL's history to win for acting.

R40 I miss the days when there was no internet and you found out your show’s history from your mom and grandma who had been watching from the start. Soaps were like family heirlooms that got passed down back then.

R108 god I cant stand the fake lily. She’s trying so hard to be Martha Byrne.

Omg r114 “Officer Jesus” lmao. Thats what we called him on mediadomain back in the day. Jack was officer jesus, lily was princess poopypants, and Katie was fluffy.

Judi didn't especially get along off screen with Grant, Michael O'Leary and Krista Tesreau, who all hung out together. Grant and Michael were pranksters off screen. They also loved to joke and tease people, especially Judi who took herself very seriously. Their jokes and teasing hurt her feelings, which created a bad rift between the them.

Part of the reason for pairing Beth with Lujack was because Judi wasn't getting along with the other three Musketeers. Show would never have broken up such a successful grouping as The Four Musketeers so quickly unless there was a strong reason to do so. As much as we love to recall the Four Musketeers, that grouping less than year -- Judi joined the show in June 1983, and by June 1984, they had Beth riding on horseback on the beach with Lujack while "Almost Paradise" played.

It should also be noted that when Judi's Beth reunited with Phillip, it was John Bolger who played the part, not Grant.

As r135 notes, Vince and Grant were only on the show together for a bout a year. Vince joined in Nov 1983, Grant left in Dec 1984. There were some Phillip-Lujack scenes, but not not a lot. Lujack didn't even find out he was Alexandra's son until May 1984. Most of the Phillip-Lujack scenes after that were not about a Spaulding rivalry, but the rivalry over Beth.

As for that photo a few years ago on the Days set of Grant, Judi and Vince, don't make too much of it. People grow and evolve. I imagine after 30 years time, they were able to put differences aside, at least long enough to pose for a photo together.

The most telling evidence that Grant and Vince didn't get along too well came in 1996. Vince was off the show, but Grant was back on. They had Nick and Susan return for a weeklong Christmas visit to Alexandra. Yet Grant and Vince did not share a scene during that visit. Not even a quick scene of Phillip meeting Nick and saying, "Wow, you really do look exactly like Lujack."

"Omg [R114] “Officer Jesus” lmao. Thats what we called him on mediadomain back in the day. Jack was officer jesus, lily was princess poopypants, and Katie was fluffy."

R140, I miss those crazy-ass days on MediaDomain! Oh, the Carjack/Julia wars, and the Craig/Paul wars, and the very weird trolls (a Scott Holmes troll? Really???).

R141 Are you sure about the rift with the 4M's? I know Judi did take some teasing seriously but I remember reading she was dating one of the producers who isolated her, over worked her and belittled her. She then got some pretty intense backlash from unnamed cast members. She has later modified her comments some but I do wonder who was so jealous since it was GL's first acting win ever. The rest of her time on GL was reportedly miserable, left in 1986 and never looked back. She would hardly comment on her time on the show she was that bitter about her experience. I don't think she would have even considered a return in 1989 had she been available. Any dirt on any of this would be appreciated.

VI was very protective of both Beth the character and Judi the person. He reportedly went off when a fan asked him in the 00's what he thought about how they were writing Beth. He was furious and said they ruined her and it was a travesty but had great things to say about Beth C. What a shame they never allowed Nick (or an non-dead Lujack-it was discussed) and Beth to meet. Talk about story to explore! Grant adored the Beth character and he and Beth C got along great.

Yes r143 lmao. Tomhughesfan was literally Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

r144 Judi was 19 when she joined the show and soon started dating director John Whitesell. It apparently was a bad relationship. He was apparently was quite controlling and belittled her in front of castmates.

That bad relationship combined with teasing from castmates, especially Grant and Michael, would have made for a less than happy time on the set.

The story linked below talks about her relationship with Whitesell and winning the Emmy. Its the 11th paragraph of the story, 4 paragraphs from the end.

Incidentally, John Whitesell is the brother of soap writer Chris Whitesell.

R146 Thanks! Who gave her shit for winning an Emmy?

I think her producer BF is what caused a lot of her misery, cast mate issues and it never got better.

How ironic to give an Emmy winning performance in the middle of a miserable working environment.

You bitches are good. You know all the stuff! I was about to follow up on the whole 4M's / Irizarry post but you covered it.

PS: I don't know why they didn't have Vincent share a scene with Grant but I understood it to be a budget issue and not anything related to a feud.

And GL was a big vat of coke and egos in the 80s. Any so called feuds should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

R148 She wasn't yet miserable when she won the Emmy. Her winning performances were for early on. She was acting opposite James Rebhorn so she had a great acting partner. They played off each other to perfection.

All I can say is that if you ask Tina Sloan about Beth Chamberlain, she raves about Beth, calls her her daughter and has a lot of nice things to say about working with her.

But someone at a fan event mentioned Judi Evans and Tina shrugged and went on to the next topic......

No idea who would have given her shit for winning the Emmy. She won the Emmy in 1984, just a year into her time on GL.

And Gail Kobe-Pam Long brought in many new actors when they took over in 1983. I doubt any of the people who joined about the same time that she did would have cause to be jealous.

So, I would suspect it was someone who had been there for some time, one of the people pushed aside for the new characters. Likely one of the disgruntled people who left as soon as their contract ended.

Perhaps Don Stewart. He was unhappy and vocal about everything connected to Gail Kobe taking over and pushing him to the backburner.

R151 Really? Wow. Tina was such a Beth (character) fanatic.

I read the Judi interview above. I hate how she downplays the character of Beth (never watched her on Days) and raves how Pauline was so well rounded. She conflates, maybe, her experience on set with the character of Beth. While Beth had tons of tragedies and cried a lot, she was also pretty tough, standing up to her abusive stepfather, before and after rape, always stood up to Alan and stood up to Roger (though Judi wasn't playing her then). Beth left Philip once he strayed and did it fast. Beth was never pushed around.

She makes clear in the article cast mates where jealous but I have never heard who. She said they told her she didn't deserve it which is astounding seeing as A) She did and B) that is so cruel to a young actress. Her scenes with Rebhorn, in particular, are intense and perfection.

Any other scoop on her time on GL? You guys are great!

[quote]PS: I don't know why they didn't have Vincent share a scene with Grant but I understood it to be a budget issue and not anything related to a feud.

Budget issue? Are you seriously believing such a convenient excuse? They can't afford to pay two actors already on the show to share a single scene? A scene the longtime fans are dying to see?

The 2001 DL spoiler thread that revealed what would happen on ATWT with Barbara is what got me hooked on this place to begin with. Ah, memories.

If Grant and Michael teased Judi relentlessly about stuff, very likely they teased her about winning the Emmy at such a young age, so early in her time on the show.

Perhaps Judi interpreted that as jealousy. And likely on some level it was jealousy on Grant's part.

It's not like Grant wasn't giving a great performance, especially when Phillip learned Alan wasn't his father. I remember wondering at the time if Grant would get an Emmy nod for those episodes. And he'd only been on the show 7-8 months by the time Phillip's paternity was revealed.

R154 Normally I would raise an eyebrow but that was right when GL was almost cancelled in '96 and they did some heavy cutting to appease CBS.

[quote] No idea who would have given her shit for winning the Emmy. She won the Emmy in 1984, just a year into her time on GL.

It wasn't per se about the Emmy, but more about the perception that John Whitesell was giving her preferential treatment - and it WAS the Beth show at that time, for a while at least.

[quote]and it WAS the Beth show at that time,

Don't worry, hun. It became the Reva Show soon after I got there.

[quote]Normally I would raise an eyebrow but that was right when GL was almost cancelled in '96 and they did some heavy cutting to appease CBS.

r157. If the show was trying to save money, why bring Vince back at all? Nick's return had no impact on any of the plots happening at that time. It was just a Christmas visit by Nick and Susan, a feel-good visit for the viewers.

Aside from Zimmer's well known rivalry with Cynthia Watros and Michelle Forbes, who else were rivals at GL?

[quote] If the show was trying to save money, why bring Vince back at all?

Vince was LEAVING. It was Grant coming back at that time. And they'd cut a few other people with Vince.

Believe me, the fact that they couldn't have them say hello is one of the dumbest things ever. It ranks with Dinah coming back to town and them taking about 2 years to remember that, oh yes, Harley and Dinah were friends. But I was making the point that it was other concerns and not any feud that led to that omission.

[quote] Who else were rivals at GL?

Beverlee McKinsey spoke once about how she and Michael Zaslow did NOT get along. They'd worked together earlier and apparently loathed each other. When they were connected/paired on GL they sat down and said, OK, how do we make this better? And it apparently worked to a degree. (see linked article)

[quote] It's not like Grant wasn't giving a great performance

I am insulted that I've never been recognized for my iconic performance in Grant's white shorts during that scene with Mindy!

DL talks about this scene at least once a month r162 and I’ve yet to see evidence it exists.

Someone just posted it!

R156, I heard from someone on the show that Grant and Michael teased Judi mercilessly about growing up in a circus family. In front of other cast members. And Judi never forgave them.

R165 That seems hard to believe though do they ever mention or speak of Judi much?

Why is it hard to believe? They were young guys and she grew up in a fucking circus!

R167 They don't seem the type and there is nothing ever written to suggest this occurred. They did tease her about things that are considered mean but the teasing was never described as mercilessly. She was young, sensitive and very green thrown into one of the most intense storylines in daytime history.

[quote]Vince was LEAVING. It was Grant coming back at that time. And they'd cut a few other people with Vince.

r161 Your dates are incorrect. Vince left GL in Feb 1996 (see Soap Wiki page linked below). Grant returned to the role of Phillip in March 1996. Then Vince returned as Nick for a weeklong Christmas visit in Dec 1996. It's that Christmas visit that people are referring to, wondering why there was not at least a brief scene between Phillip and Nick during that visit.

You, or someone else, suggested that lack of a Phillip-Nick scene was a budget issue. While that seems unlikely, nonetheless, it is plausible. Consider this scenario -- perhaps Grant had scheduled some days off far in advance and perhaps Vince's schedule would only allow him specific days to be in the studio to film that Christmas visit. Thus, it is possible that Grant and Vince's schedule did not overlap. In that case, to have them film a Phillip-Nick scene would have meant paying Vince for an extra day which would have cost GL more money and then become a budget issue. .

Here's the Soap Wiki page for Phillip. Lots of interesting facts about the character.

It seems pretty clear that Vince and Grant were NOT cool with each other.

Grant's cock is so much bigger than Vincent's. Do you blame him for being jealous?

Grant obviously has good taste in men.

[quote] They don't seem the type

We know fuck all about who these people really are, let's not forget that. They are not their characters.

Grant also used to tease Chris Bernau mercilessly. Chris had eyes, of course, and thought Grant was hot, and he'd come in for a day of filming, stretch his arms behind his head and talk about his night out at XYZ gay club. Of course he was just teasing, but it gave Chris blue balls.

I wonder how Judi would have played Beth had she returned in 1989. She would have gotten to play opposite James Rebhorn again in another very intense scene where Beth speaks again after 3 years having remembered killing Blackburn (?) with a boat paddle when he tried to rape her while seeing Bradley's face.

It wouldn't have lasted long as Grant left due to some family tragedy in 1991 so they wrote both of them off. And juuuust missed VI coming back as Nick. They really did miss some great opportunities by not having Beth and Nick share time on the show.

Beth Chamberlain aged in reverse and was stunningly gorgeous in GL's last year. Her sex scenes with Coop! That body! And she had a great one, too!

Would one of you please be so kind as to explain why the phrase "Those Magnificent Midwestern Cities" always appears in the title to these threads? Thank you.

Because the three remaining P&G shows took place in Illinois, as opposed to upstate NY, suburban Philadelphia (or Harrisburg), or Los Angeles. Genoa City is of course, the Midwest, but hardly Magnificent.

R175

If Judi didn't return & BC hadn't started yet who played Beth during that period?

Only two people have played Beth Raines -- Judi Evans and Beth Chamberlain.

Judi Evans left in July 1986 when her contract was up. Beth was presumed dead.

Beth Chamberlain started in the role in Oct 1989 when they resurrected the character.

My great grandma got senile and thought those were real people's lives on GL. When they replaced an actress one time they told her that the woman just got a new wig and that's why she looked different.

R176 I coined that phrase for the DL. I've probably started 90 percent or more of the P&G soap related threads on here.

As R177 said, the last 3 big P&G shows were all Midwestern - even if the cities weren't real they were usually assumed to be in the Midwest. But so were earlier P&G shows, like Edge of Night (assumed to be near Cincinnati) and so on.

But the other reason is that because a few years back, soap threads were sometimes deleted for no reason. And so we had to sort of mask what the threads were about in the titles and opening post. I'd usually mention a few of the cities and say something like "Ada will snap her dishtowel at you" or something, so those that knew would get it, and those that didn't wouldn't have a fit about it.

Beth Chamberlain’s deep voice really kept me from buying her as Beth those first few years.

[quote]OP So, fix yourself a tall glass of iced tea and come meet us on the Snyder Easedropping Porch

[quote] R13 No "oh, dear" about that at all! It was only too easy to listen in on that porch.

It is spelled [bold]eavesdropping

The entire town of Oakdale was eavesdropping all the time. Soap Opera Digest once even gave the show the "thin walls award" and said that on ATWT, eavesdropping was a "form of art." I remember during the Marland era, somebody would be listening in, learn a secret and the scene would quietly fade to commercial...

Does anyone know why Robin Strasser's kids denounced her & have no contact with her?

Putting it in her d/t her turn as Rachel and because this thread seems to have the most 'in the know' posters.

I know she was a bitch on wheels on OLTL & let go d/t her horrid treatment of the crew & behind the scenes people. They hired her back a few years later at a huge pay cut & a contract stipulating that behavior would be immediate grounds for dismissal.

I don't know if it's time or what not but she now seems so jovial on Twitter & self-deprecating.

R183 We know, dear. But the malaprop version actually made sense. It was EASE of eavesdropping.

Now sit down and drink your damn tea.

R185 I didn't know they'd done that. That's sad if so.

Robin is a great actress but she had a very tough childhood and has been described as a very challenging person to be around because of it. She's very neurotic and very sensitive.

I loved the eavesdropping in oakdale under Marland, r184. It was so fun to keep track of who knew which secrets and who didn’t, and it was always so juicy when a character would unwittingly spill the beans. It may be my favorite aspect of marland’s style.

Did anyone ever call robin strasser’s weird hotline?

Meg Snyder (as played by Jennifer Ashe) was the Queen of Eavesdropping.

[quote]R186 Now sit down and drink your damn tea.

I will not be silence, by YOU or anyone ELSE in Springfield!

BTW: how does one drop from (or hang out in) eaves.... unless you’re a bat?

When I first saw HEATHERS, I thought Jennifer Rhodes (who plays Winona Ryder’s Mom) was Dorian from OLTL

[quote] I will not be silence, by YOU or anyone ELSE in Springfield!

Oh, dear. Or in my case - DARLING!

*Silenced, with a d

*The Eavesdropping/Easedropping Porch and Nancy Hughes are in OAKDALE.

Today is Eileen Fulton's birthday.

Trivia question= What was Lisa's full name by the time the show went off?

I still want to know how to hang from eve’s like a bat!

I remember when Grant Aleksander returned as Philip. I was quite up on spoilers at the time despite it being pre-internet, because I bought the magazines and newsletters, but I had no clue he was returning. I believe we first heard his voice on a phone call at the end of a show on a Friday, and I was like "oh my god, the real Phillip is back!"

I remember that first return, too, R196. It was very exciting. I was watching it with a friend and his mother and the mom said, "That sounds like the old Phillip!"

And indeed it was.

I loved John Bolger and think he's one of the sexiest men on earth, but he was never quite Phillip, at least the Phillip we knew. He came across as more of a born to blue blood Phillip, which didn't quite make sense. Grant captured the adult version of the idea that Phillip was a Marler raised as a Spaulding.

But John DID have fabulous chemistry with Mary Kay Adams. Grant did, as well, but John and Mary Kay really had IT.

I liked Bolger's chemistry with Dano on AW.

R177 don’t forget Monticello. Where was it?

Lisa Miller Hughes Eldridge Shea Colman McCall Mitchell Grimaldi Chedwyn R194? I might have the order wrong.

The marriage to Martin Chedwyn was not legitimate. And it's McColl, isn't it?

You’re right r201. I’m not worthy. I pass the Hubbard squash to you, its rightful owner.

r199 see r181

A state was never specified for Monticello, but the opening credits used the skyline of Cincinnati (which is where P&G was headquartered). So, it is assumed Monticello is a substitute for Cincinnati or is somewhere nearby.

Likewise, did they ever give a state for Henderson?

Or for Madison? Yes, I know Madison isn't an official Magnificent Midwestern City since The Doctors wasn't P&G. Nonetheless, I thought I would ask the question.

John Bolger was a good actor and very handsome. Have enjoyed him in everything he's done. Except GL. He just wasn't Phillip. Although I agree he had great chemistry with Mary Kay Adams.

And I LOVED his performing Proud Mary with Reva, something Grant's Phillip would not have done, especially thrusting his groin to the music.

Speaking of Proud Mary, now is a good time to revisit.

Go to 3:40 in the video below for the start of the song.

Go to 5:35 for Bolger's "dance solo"

Betty Rea was a genius casting director but she also had some huge duds and JB as Phillip was one.

R203 We always welcome the Doctors here, it's really similar to the P&G shows so it's been talked about here, especially since the Retro TV run started.

I don't think Madison was ever specified, either, but really, most shows were assumed to be "heartland" outside of the ones that specified a real city, like Love Is A Many Splendored Thing, or shows that spelled out their region - ABC had Port Charles, and Agnes Nixon's soaps, set in the Philadelphia suburbs.

Why did it take so long for GL to say SF was in Illinois? Also, they could have made up a name and still had the town in Illinois instead of the capital!

I have never seen Judi Evans last day on GL. Anyone know if it is online?

r208 It was typical of soaps, especailly P&G soaps, not to have specific locations.

As I recall, The Doctors was only set in Hope Memorial Hospital until the mid 1970s when they finally named the city where Hope Memorial was located as Madison. The state was never specified as far as I know.

Agnes Nixon was an exception in that she established Llanview and Pine Valley as being in Pennsylvania early on.

And to this day, the state in which Salem (Day of Our Lives) is located has never been established.

As for GL, the show changed locations several times over its 72 years. It was originally set in Shelby Flats, later the Bauers moved to Los Angeles. Then finally the Bauers moved to Springfield in the late 50s, early 60s.

I always thought it could have been SF, Missouri until they said Illinois.

Regarding Judi's time as Beth- she brought a really unique quality to what would become a pretty iconic character. It is a shame she apparently had a horrific time on the show to where it appears she hated it and would never entertain a return.

Same with Bev M. That interview posted above was wow. She didn't have found memories, only storylines, and said she never watched the show. She seemed really, really bitchy and diva-ish. Like she really didn't support the show at all at any time.

Watching R205 , it made me think of other times soap stars were made to dance. Poor Jake Silberman on ATWT had to do a little dance when Cyndi Lauper appeared. He looked totally embarrassed. On the other hand when Melanie Smith's Emily did that tango with Brock Lombard...whew! Hot stuff!

[quote] Same with Bev M. That interview posted above was wow. She didn't have found memories, only storylines, and said she never watched the show. She seemed really, really bitchy and diva-ish. Like she really didn't support the show at all at any time.

Nah, Bev was never a diva. She was very matter of fact and professional. She didn't play all the political games, make friends at work or do press often, which is why she never won an Emmy, despite years of magnificence. She wasn't bitchy, she just had a child at home to raise, and later, a sick husband to care for.

Except for the almost 3 year break between Texas and GL, she worked in soaps for 20 years. Those hours are tough, and I think it eventually took a toll on her health.

R212 Sherry Stringfield, who was handed 2 huge primetime shows no doubt due to her talent, squandered it and left ER when it and she were red hot. She said it was the long hours but she has said her years on GL prepared her for the grueling work in primetime.

She was an odd one, Sherry.

How did Beth end up presumed dead? I know she was kidnapped by someone but what were the circumstances and how did it go down? Details would be appreciated.

She disappeared in the middle of a party and was assumed to have drowned in a lake - or some shit like that.

Anyone else have more info?

r217, GL in 1986 and 1987 was so bad, I barely watched it. Can't really remember anything about Beth's "death" other than she fell into a lake. Sorry.

Beth sought comfort with Phillip in 1986 and the pair became engaged again. Tragically their happiness wouldn't last long when Beth began to work at a museum for Professor Blackburn. Blackburn had gotten his hands on the cornerstone of the von Halkein estate in Andorra. India knew that it contained gold and she tried to steal it from him but the Professor was desperate to hold on to the cornerstone. He knocked India unconscious, shot Phillip, and held Beth hostage on a boat in Stony Lake. Sometime later Blackburn’s dead body turned up, Beth's shoe and some fabric from her dress was found but she was nowhere to be found. Phillip was devastated and vowed to find her, but Alan, who had always looked down on Beth, fabricated some evidence to make it look like Beth was really dead.

I didn’t really watch the show but somehow managed to google it.

R219 Thank you for that. I read that but wanted to hear it from someone who watched as they give better, sometimes more accurate, details.

I watched during that time but a bit sporadically, because GL was SO terrible in that era (Infinity! Sampson Girl contest!) and because I was so totally falling in love with ATWT in 1986.

As soon as the 50th anniversary hit on GL and Pam Long came back, I was totally back into GL.

GL had a really bad streak there from mid-85 to most of 87.

Although to be honest, 85 to 87 was still better than big chunks of the 2000s.

R223 To be fair, CBS was trying to kill GL by then.

I blog on Twitter is doing a list of the best & most memorable weddings from past & present soaps.

What are your favorite P&G weddings?

[quote]What are your favorite P&G weddings?

Vicky and Jake's wedding, from the gown to the location to the inevitability of their being together. They should have left them behind in Bay City, of course, rather than bringing them to Oakdale, killing Vicky off, and letting Jake fall into the clutches of Molly Conlon. It might not have been so bad if Steven and Luke had ended up together, but they didn't think that far ahead. P&G brought new, and stupider-than-ever meaning to the term TIIC in the 1990s and 2000s.

[quote]still better than big chunks of the 2000s.

That would be the David Kreizman-Ellen Wheeler years, 2004-2009.

Although the final 6 months or so of the show were great, thanks in large part to Jill Lorie Hurst.

Still can't believe the 10 year anniversary is on Wednesday!

I loved the Cross Creek wedding of Josh & Reva. That was a perfect week of TV

R227 Jill was great. Surprised she isn't writing for any other shows.

Nine years ago today, the world stopped turning.

Ugh, I can't even believe it, R230.

Nothing can top Bob and Kim's wedding for me, though Hal and Barbara's first wedding is a close second. And as the biggest Craig and Sierra fan ever, did they actually get married off screen? What happened there? That should have been a HUGE wedding.

The light went out 10 years ago today.

I will never get over the loss of AW and GL.

GL was close to my heart for a long, long time. So sad it is gone.

It was a mercy killing at the end. Reva killed the show.

More like she ate it.

Is anyone still a regular (weely) reader of SOD?

Did they mention GL's 10 year cancel-versary? Do any articles/features with former GL stars anytime in the last few weeks?

I haven't seen the current issue but last week had an interview with Michael O'Leary.

Ain't that a Kick in the Cunt!

Over on the Celebs Who Are Generally Obscure but Not Obscure on DataLounge thread, someone suggested that Constance Ford was little known outside of DL. (see reply 97) .

I was rather shocked by this response. But what about the rest of you Magnificent Midwesterners? Do you think Connie Ford is obscure except on DL?

How very DARE they, Aunt Liz!

I saw online where Port Charles is going to be available for streaming.

Who do I have to blow to get AW, GL, ATWT available?

For the DeFreitas Stan on this board!

I remember that there was a big Emmy mixup around 1985 or 1986 where the writing team Emmy was awarded to "The Young and the Restless" but was really meant for "Guiding Light" and people were confused that there WAS a mixup as YR was clearly better written than GL was at the time.

And then there was GLs 1920s storyline...

[quote] saw online where Port Charles is going to be available for streaming. Who do I have to blow to get AW, GL, ATWT available?

Where did you see this r241. Link, please.

As for who to blow at P&G, many of us would join in if it would mean access to the old episodes. P&G had that venture with AOL about a decade ago. That got a fair number of 1979-81 episodes released, but then the venture dried up. No idea why.

P&G doesn't seem interested in being in the soap opera business in any form, old or new. They seem content to let the old episodes collect dust in a vault rather than let the public have access.

All these streaming services and digital subchannels available t now, surely one would love to run old AW or GL or ATWT episodes.

Remembering GL

Who the hell wants to watch “Port Charles”? GMAB.

Hogan Sheffer died

link

I really hate to hear that. He breathed new life into ATWT.

Fans are divided over his ATWT, but his tenure had some really good stuff for sure. Like Pam Long, he was really good for some characters but pushed others to the back burner.

New Yorker magazine wrote a lengthy piece on Sheffer when he was riding high at ATWT.

The New Yorker piece

No matter what anyone may think of his work, he was apparently unanimously loved by his fellow writers and actors. I don't know details but it seems like he'd been very, very sick for a while, as well.

May he rest in peace.

Tom Casiello tweeted a beautiful tribute to Sheffer. He sounded like a fascinating, funny, exasperating yet lovely man.

Like many, I have mixed feelings about Sheffer. I did REALLY love Rose and Martha Byrne's portrayal of her. Wonderful writing for Henry, too, which Trent Dawson played to perfection. But FauxCraig was a terrible betrayal to longtime fans, and the demonizing of Julia Lindsey left a very bad taste in my mouth.

But regardless, very sad and RIP.

"When I first started here," he says, "I used to sit and point to the list of male characters and say, 'No dick, no dick, no dick, no dick, no dick.' It's one of the reasons that daytime shows go south -- the men are turned into whining idiots while their women run amok. You can't write scenes where the men say, 'Why don't you love me? What can I do to help you?'"

Well, perhaps Hogan couldn't, but Marland could. Look, you can write a Jack Snyder or a Steve Andropoulos with that attitude, but you cannot write a Craig Montgomery (at least not the one we knew in the Eighties).

I will always love Hogan for his merciless shade of Maurice Benard & Sonny Corinthos.

RIP

Does anybody remember Whit McColl on ATWT? What exactly did Lucinda do to him that made Lisa hate her for life?

R259, Lucinda's husband, Martin Guest, called in an overdue loan to Lisa's husband, Whit McColl. So Whit then blackmailed Martin by telling him that if he had to pay, he would reveal that Martin and Lucinda's daughter, Lily, was not their biological child. Martin freaked out and committed suicide (and was found dead by Lily).

I love YouTube where I can watch great old episodes like this oldie from 1986 at the climax of the Tad Channing story. Unfortunately, it's not the episode when he dies and has his hand sticking out of the cement, but maybe the episode before. Nobody got everybody involved like Doug Marland.

R260, was that onscreen or something that happened before Lucinda showed up in Oakdale?

Pretty sure it happened before the Walshes came to town, R262 (which is sort of odd). There are no episodes from that time on Youtube, and teenage Lily describes herself as a "little girl" when she found her father's dead body. She didn't understand the situation, and tried to "wake him up."

The tribute mentioned at R255.

I cried after reading it.

Who did Lily consider her Dad? Martin? WHo was Lucinda married to when she adopted Lily?

R265: Martin arranged the adoption of Lily, and Lily considered him her dad, though she later took the Walsh name. Lucinda had no idea where Lily came from until Iva popped up.

Lucinda was first married to Sierra's father, Jacobo Esteban, then Martin Guest, then James Walsh. But I don't think we ever learned much about how Lily felt about James Walsh.

I believe Martin Guest, R265, though I think Lucinda married him well after Lily was adopted. That's always been somewhat murky.....

Here's what Soap Central says...

Lucinda Walsh came to Oakdale with her teenage daughter, Lily. Upon arriving in Oakdale, Lucinda tried to steal Whit McColl's newspaper from him since she blamed him for her ex-husband's suicide. She also started a rivalry with Dr. John Dixon for a seat at the hospital board. Lucinda seemed fearless, until she learned about the coup in Montega. Lucinda was afraid for the life of her "goddaughter" Sierra and sent one of her employees, Craig Montgomery, to rescue the girl. Soon, John learned the truth: Sierra was Lucinda's daughter. Lucinda tried in vain to keep the truth from Sierra so that she wouldn't be hurt, but in the end, Sierra learned the truth and they eventually formed a close mother-daughter relationship. At the same time, Lucinda tried to discourage Lily’s relationship with Dusty Donovan, John’s ward, since she felt that Dusty was a bad influence on Lily.

With the arrival of Sierra, the truth of Lucinda's past came out. Lucinda was actually born Mary Ellen Walters and grew up poor in Peoria, Illinois. Mary Ellen's mother sent her away to live with her father when she was about 15. Mary Ellen ran away and ended up in Montega, South America where she married the powerful Jacobo Estaban. Though the marriage provided her with some prestige, there was no love and soon she found herself falling in love with another man. When Jacobo learned that she was in love with another, he banished her from Montega and kept her away from their daughter, Sierra. Heartbroken, Mary Ellen changed her name to Lucinda and married the man she loved, Martin Guest. Martin and Lucinda adopted a child, Lily. Soon after Lucinda learned that the adoption was illegal, Martin killed himself. Later, Lucinda married wealthy businessman James Walsh. When Walsh died, Lucinda bought his company out from under his weak-willed son.

Sierra's parentage wasn't all that Lucinda had to deal with. She also had to deal with the secret of Lily's parentage. Lucinda had never told her teenage daughter that she was adopted. Suddenly, in mid 1985, Lucinda started getting anonymous phone calls, for Mrs. Martin Guest, and saying they knew all about Lily's illegal adoption from baby broker Clifford Breyer. It didn't take long for Lucinda to come face to face with the voice--it was a young woman named Marie Kovacs who tried to blackmail Lucinda with the information. Although Marie was able to get Lucinda to write her a check for $500,000, she was shocked when an angry Lucinda just tore the check right in front of her face! Days later, Marie wound up dead and, after an anonymous tip from Marsha Talbot, Lucinda was called into the police station for questioning. Fortunately, she was quickly taken off the suspect list. Meanwhile, Lucinda had to deal with Lily's involvement with stablehand Holden Snyder. Lucinda felt that the Snyders weren't good enough for her daughter and she tried everything to keep the young couple apart. In 1986, Lucinda was shocked to discover that Lily's biological mother was none other than Holden's adopted sister, Iva! Though both Lucinda and Iva tried to keep the news from Lily, she finally found out the truth in 1987.

Wayne Fitzerald died.....

He apparently designed THIS masterpiece!

Was Hogan gay? Honestly don't know.

No.

This obit for Sheffer in Deadline explains a little more about his illness and death.

I knew that he'd been seriously ill - as in, near death - and hospitalized a few years ago. That's probably the 2014 thing in the obit.

Still wondering what happened to him when he took the big leave from ATWT that ended up being the end of his run. Guess we'll never know.

Bay City is so quiet these days......

So, Billie Eilish was interviewed on Howard Stern the other day, and was joined by her father and her mother, Maggie Baird, who portrayed Dr. Taylor Baldwin on ATWT in the late Eighties.

R274 had no idea

I really think We Love Soaps must be on its last legs. It almost never gets updated any more.

which "have not" family created by Doug Marland did you prefer: GL's Reardons or ATWT's Snyders?

The Reardons and the Snyders both helped revitalize their respective shows.

I preferred the Reardons, however. They added such a vibrancy to the show. Was sorry they were virtually all written off so quickly. I mean, a decade after the were created, Maureen was the only one left in town. They tried to revamp the Reardons with the introduction of Bridget and later Matt, and bringing back Nola for a time. But obviously it was clear that Marland was the only person who had a clear vision for them.

Meanwhile, the Synders remained a vital part of the show up until the end, even if the number of Synders still in Oakdale was greatly diminished.

R27

I loved Tony Reardon in his painted on jeans. That I'm 100% sure of.

I loved the Snyders for many reasons, but the biggest one was probably their being a constant thorn in Lucinda's side. They should have been virtually powerless against her, but instead they changed her life time and time again. Lucinda's early scenes with Holden are so interesting, because you can see she had no idea of what a threat he would be. She even encouraged his "tutoring" of Lily, because DUSTY.

But Holden was only the beginning. Lucinda would be forced to watch in disgust as Lily became best friends with Iva; get Emma out of the way to marry John; deal with Snyder cousin/rapist Josh/Rod as Lily's bio-dad; and suffer through Craig's relationship with Ellie while Sierra was missing in Montega. Oh, the agony of it all!

The Snyders were hillbilly trash who fucked each other:

Emma and Iva were both involved with John.

Iva and Ellie were both involved with Craig.

Iva and Ellie were both involved with Kirk.

Iva was raped by Josh, her cousin, who then married Meg.

Iva and Josh’s product of that rape, Lily, was involved with Holden and Caleb.

Holden and Caleb were involved with Julie.

Holden, Caleb and Seth were involved with Angel.

...and yet they had the nerve to act self righteous and morally superior to Lucinda.

I thought the Reardons were better realized overall in the story.

We saw all the Snyders but I thought Caleb and Ellie were afterthoughts, storywise. The original Meg was a wonderful bitch, with scheming Meg and Holden on one side and long suffering Seth and Iva on the other.

R281

All that interpersonal mishegas made for good soap so WTF would I judge them for it.?

r281 Thanks goodness the Reardons didn't have all that inbreeding and incest to contend with. Made them a much more relatable family than the Snyders ever were.

The Reardons may have been lower class struggling to pay the bills, but they were far above hillbilly trash (an apt description)

I wanted Tony and Jim Reardon to breed me repeatedly.

[quote]I wanted Tony and Jim Reardon to breed me repeatedly.

Amen, honey . Amen!

I said it with all the dignity I could muster, Aunt Liz!

The McKinnons were the Snyders and Reardons of Bay City, although their tenure (with the exception of Jake) was short-lived.

If I was going to have a 50 load weekend, Jake McKinnon would have been at least two of them.

[quote]Jake McKinnon would have been at least two of them.

Yes, as long as it was Jake McKinnon circa 1985.

True.

I'd also include a few from RKK's Sam Fowler and Danny Markel's Sam, too.

And of course, Holden and Dusty in their late 80s prime......

R292

I'll take McCouch's Dusty and Collier's Mike.

Mark Collier can do all 50 loads on me!

[quote] Mark Collier can do all 50 loads on me!

That gets an official Lucinda Walsh "Darling!" AND a MARY!

I'm gonna throw in a "You BETCHA, kiddo!", R295.

Well, while R294 is getting covered with Mike Collier's copious loads of sperm, I prefer a little more variety!

[quote]Mark Collier can do all 50 loads on me!

That's an "I'm coming, Bud" if I ever heard one.

I'll add a load from Scotty DeFrietas here for our DeFreitas Troll....I mean, DeFreitas Fan.

A load from John....if we can pull his cock out of those super tight Speedos

I'd be happy to let all four adult Jamie Frames do their loads on me.

I'd throw in both Phillip Spauldings and the first two Alan-Michaels, too.

Gary Sinclair looks good for a few loads.

Let me not forget all of the hot Chris Hughses.

Agree, R303!

[quote]Let me not forget all of the hot Chris Hughses

Yes, darling, quite a few hot ones.

A few duds in there too.

Specify which ones you want for your loads.

Dylan Bruce and Bailey Chase, for sure, and I'll throw Danny Cosgrove in there, too.

Cass Winthrop can feed me a sophisticated load.

R308

I'll fight you for Cass.

Oh, honey. Cass is a virile stud. There's enough of his spunk for everyone!

Since Robert Tyler (best known from Loving) was briefly on ATWT I'll include his beautiful self as well.....as many loads as he can squirt!

I guess I'd include one from Kirk Anderson too. I bet he's packing.

The GL bowling event was this past weekend. I see photos on FB of Robert Newman, Krista Tesreau, Liz Keifer, Nancy St Whatsersnatch that played Michelle Bauer, and Mikey O'Leary. No sign of The Pendulous One yet.

Link to the facebook posting, please r313

R313

I saw those pics too.

Beth Chamberlin & Krista Tesarau look exactly like they did. They haven't aged a day. Robert Newman needs his mustache back

The actress who played Hope looked beyond horrific. I would never leave my home if I looked like that. I'd want people to remember me like I was.

R314 They were on the page of one of the back office GL staff, but not made public, so can't link. I will see if other photos are out there.

Kim Hughes and Sabrina Fullerton would like a word.

Some photos on the event's FB page.

Grant donated a softball jersey. If only he'd have donated his sweaty jockstrap. Then again, it probably has steel reinforcements.....

I saw an article in THR or Deadline that Thomas Ia Griffin & Mary Page Keller have sold a new TV series to network TV. They will also be writing it. They both still look so good after all these years.

Anyway, it got me thinking. Why did AW replace Keller with Taylor Miller? I never bought Miller as anyone but Nina.

Who is the guy in R318's pic? That can't be Jerry VerDorn, can it?

R320 It is, and that's actually an old photo. ver Dorn is very, very fat now.

Ok. I thought it was from that event the other night. I always found Ross Marler/ Ver Dorn to be handsome.

R322 I linked to the FB page and while there are newer photos there it somehow pulled that particular one.

[quote] Mark Collier can do all 50 loads on me!

I've decided I need this on a t-shirt!

[quote] Mark Collier can do all 50 loads on me!

[quote] I've decided I need this on a t-shirt!

Damn, r324. I should have done a copyright on that phrase. Next time I'll know! ©

But since I didn't , enjoy your t-shirt.

Yes, that phrase with a suitably phallic image too, preferably one that looks like he's standing about me while I'm on my knees.....

[quote]Anyway, it got me thinking. Why did AW replace Keller with Taylor Miller? I never bought Miller as anyone but Nina.

Mary Page Keller had a two-year contract that ended in June 1985. She opted not to renew that contract. Meanwhile, Thomas Ian Griffith, who joined the show in January 1984, had a three year contract.

Sally and Catlin were the show's super couple at that time, the Bo and Hope, the Luke and Laura of Another World. Show didn't want to risk losing the characters by sending them off together when Keller left, especially when Griffith was only halfway through his contract.

A large reason for the chemistry you saw on-screen between Sally and Catlin was because the actors became a real-life couple off screen. They hooked up almost from the moment they met. Keller and Griffith have been married since 1991 and have two children.

So, they recast Sally with Taylor Miller, figuring hiring a name could lure in some new viewers from ABC (this was the start of NBC's mid 1980s casting frenzy of big names stars from other soaps).

Problem was, Miller and Griffith had no chemistry and Miller wasn't right for Sally (just like Philece Sampler was wrong for Donna). She was great as Nina on AMC because Nina was written to her strengths. But she wasn't right for Sally.

Rather than just recast Sally again, the show foolishly opted to kill off the Sally character in May 1986, a little shy of a year after Miller started. Show backburnered Catlin and sent him out of town with his ex-wife Brittany when their contracts were up in early 1987.

Killing off Sally was one of the dumbest things the show did. The next generation of the Matthews family and the Frame clan and they kill her off?!?

With Miller not working out and Griffith guaranteed to leave when his contract ended in Jan 1987, show should have just cut their losses and sent Sally and Catlin out of town together in summer 1986.

Aunt Liz is a national treasure!

Donna, dear @ R328. You've very sweet to say such kind words about a dawdling old lady.

I'd tell you more about what I think of you, Liz, but I know with your eavesdropping talents, you've already heard! LOL

Irene Dailey's Liz was a cartoon. Audra Lindley was a snob and Nancy WIckwire was a snob extraordinaire.

Another article about Hogan Sheffer

^^^

Thanks for that article on Hogan. Very good article & I'm glad they had Craig's comments.

The guy who tweets classic music montages tweeted an ATWT montage. It included a clip of the actor who played Wally on AW.

His name escapes me. I didn't know he was on ATWT. Anyone remember him on ATWT? I adored him on AW.

Brent Collins, who played Wallingford on AW, was also on ATWT in 1982 (right before he went to AW) as Mr. Big, who was sort of a gothic villain for a while. That story was when Tom and Margo originally got together (with Justin Deas as Tom and Margaret Colin as Margo).

It looks like Tom/Margo in this incarnation was ATWT's attempt at doing their own take on the Luke/Laura thing, kind of like Liza/Travis were at SFT, etc.

[quote]It included a clip of the actor who played Wally on AW.

Wally? Do you mean Lenore Curtin's young son Walter Curtin, Jr? He was maybe 10 or 12 years old, when last seen on the show in 1975.

Or do you mean Wallingford? The dwarf actor who was friends with Felicia and Cass. Actor Brent Collins played that part from 1984 until he died in early 1988.

Before that Brent Collins played Mr. Big on ATWT in 1982-83. Mr. Big was a crime boss of some type (I wasn't watching ATWT at the time, so don't know the details).

R335. It appears we posted our responses just seconds apart! Thanks for filling in the details about Mr. Big.

Loved Wallingford with Jackee Harry's Lily. 'Wally Ford" - she was a riot.

I'd like to include both Gary Sinclairs and all three Nick Hudsons in my 50 load weekend, thank you.

Oh and Uncle John Hudson too, of course. He's good for at least one.

In a million years I’ll never understand how John Dixon got so much pussy.

R340, when John wanted a woman, he would act like that woman was the only person in the universe. Very attentive, gentle, soft-spoken, always listening, always helping. And being a wealthy, powerful doctor didn't exactly hurt.

Sometimes Larry B seemed so ugly to me, other times I could totally see why women were fascinated.

He was plucked from an Ingmar Bergman film, metaphorically speaking. Probably best appreciated on the stage.

Denise Pence (Katie - Guiding Light) - why I was FIRED from Guiding Light

Love me some Denise Pence. I wonder how much she’s racked up by participating in those original audiotape sessions which led to the creation of A Chorus Line.

For those of you still lingering around at this party, it's been locked down by the DL police.

So, the party has moved to the location linked below. Join us there!