All things Job Search

In the old days, you never put your income on a resume. I don’t know if that changed.

Yes, if you pay the premium, you can see who peeked at your resume.

If your boss sees it, maybe he’ll treat you better.

Thanks OP! Can we also use this as a "Help Wanted" thread? Our company is looking for a freelance graphic designer (less of an art director though, and more of a production person). It is a remote position and we pay well. I have no idea how this would work on here or if it is even allowed, but throwing it out there anyway.

What level of experience are you looking for in your graphic designer? Is the job posting online?

Ludicrous to suggest that your company will hire a rando met on a gay message board for any position other than escort.

R5 Better than the webmaster we are enduring who came highly recommended to us by our accountant, but is about as useless as tits on a bull. We found our current designer on Craigslist. Absolute dream, and it is going to be hard to replace her. Ironically, she's leaving to become a sex worker...no, wait, a psychologist. Same thing, whatever.

r3 We will have a job posting online hopefully next week. I'll put it here. While we want someone experienced in all facets of design, the actual job is more production/grunt work, as my boss fancies himself a designer (ugh).

Um, you really don't want to upload your resume to LinkedIn, OP.

The point of LinkedIn is that you sort of duplicate your resume in your profile, but you can be a bit more conversational about your experiences and achievements - you're not trying to fit it all into one page.

There are certain things that overlap in both a LinkedIn profile and a resume, of course. (Job experiences and dates should match.) Some helpful tips for those that are rusty.....

(1) Create one basic "template" resume that has the core info you want to share. You'll need to create a new version for every job where you submit. Not radically new, but the helpful hint here? Make sure you are putting as many of the keywords/phrases from the job posting as you can into your resume. Why? No human being is seeing this in the first round or two - it's a machine scanning your resume for those words/terms. You could be the best fit ever but if you don't have enough matches, your resume gets shitcanned.

(2) Too many people use dull language in resumes. Responsible for, oversaw, blah, blah, blah. Describe your role with a little more lively language. I was a key member of the Widgets Team, which is 25 percent of the company's product line.

(3) One really effective tool is to use the X+Y=Z formula. You go beyond the descriptions when possible and try to put into words what your work does to make the company better. "I implemented X new process, which had Y impact and led to Z percent increase in sales."

Is premium worth it?

The two benefits to premium are

(a) you're able to send a few messages a month

and

(b) you can see who looks at your profile.

LinkedIn bites

LinkedIn can be an invaluable tool. I've known many people that it was a crucial part of them getting their next job.

I am thinking about leaving my job so I started taking LinkedIn seriously and I have gotten an interview with it already and used to it talk to someone at the company.

Ignore it at your peril.

But in order for LinkedIn to work you actually have to know how to use it. Connect with every one you can.

LinkedIn looks like too much work, to use it to find a job.

I hate that LinkedIn is so important now; it's just Facebook for corporate assholes.

You can all disdain LinkedIn as much as you want, but if you're in any kind of corporate job, you have to play the networking game to some degree.

I was scheduled to have a phone interview today with the HR guy. I was actually excited because his LinkedIn profile summary states “Golden Girls fan, and corporate recruiter, in that order” or something similar. I thought “oh great, a fellow gay, i can be myself and more comfortable.

Well that bitch never called! I’ve never heard of that, HE reached out to ME and set up the time! No subsequent email apologizing or explaining, just ghosted.

Well I never in all my life!

Millennials.

I’ve never used Linkedn and I’ve never used anyone in a “networking” capacity. I’ve always gotten my jobs on my own qualifications.

R16 Recruiters ghosting candidates who they have approached is very common these days, unfortunately.

Beware job seekers! I was called to a recruiter’s office and when I got there it was a lone shabby office at 47th and 8th. I walked in and before I knew it I was pushed from behind and slammed into a filing cabinet. The next thing I knew the recruiter threw me down on the floor and had his way with me. I ran out of the office afterwards. I tried to tell the police but they never believed me. Please, don’t meet with one of these sleaze bag recruiters.

The recruiter is trying to refer people into roles as fast as possible. That position might be settled and they no longer need to talk to you. No need to take it personally, they are doing their job, they aren't your friend.

Some clarification on R16: he wasn’t an outside recruiter, he was internal HR for the company. So unprofessional.

R21 you are so full of shit. It’s a recruiter’s job to provide follow up. Those that don’t are not good recruiters. I will not deal with anyone who works like that. Recruiters are a dime a dozen. Those that build respectable, professional relationships with their candidates can be invaluable. But those are far and few. R16 should move on. Any recruiter who would ghost a candidate will do the same to a company. So fuck you r21. Fuck you in your left nostril.

I’ve been on LinkedIn since 2011 and changed jobs three times since then. I found all three of those jobs though being contacted on LinkedIn.

R24 you’ve had 3 jobs since 2011?? What seems to be the problem?

R25 That's normal these days.

In my father's day, one was expected to stay with the company for basically their whole life.

When I was in my 20's, it wasn't unusual to be in a job for 5, 10, 15 years.

But now, if you're with a company for more than 2 or 3 years, it's actually seen as a negative.

I agree with R26, with the caveat that entry level jobs should be held for 2-3 yrs, mid level jobs for 4-7 yrs, and upper management for either 1-3 or 10+. I'm 40 and can't imagine staying at one company for longer than 5 years, unless you keep moving up. Even then, you can only move up so far without needing to leave.

Aside from LinkedIn, which I agree is just Facebook for suits, where are we looking for jobs? Is it just Indeed and specialized/targeted job boards? For instance, I work in higher ed, so I look for jobs on the Chronicle of Higher Ed website.

The people who find jobs on Craigslist are not the kind of people that I would want as my coworkers.

Good points R27. There's some differences in there.

The takeaway is that what R25 saw as a minus is actually pretty standard these days. There's already a lot of ageism at play and companies are pushing out older people, and anyone with any kind of long tenure, too.

Some of it is the perception that there will be resistance to new ideas, but more than anything, they're doing it to be cheap. That's also why they're hiring 23 year old Brynleigh over 45 year old Andrew. She's going to accept a lower wage and demand less for the two or three years she's there. And then she'll get married or knocked up, and another Brynleigh will take her place.

Indeed is a pretty good spot to find job listings. Craigslist is really not, though it might be OK for a part time gig or something really local to your area/neighborhood. Otherwise it's all restaurant work and delivery driver gigs.

There's FlexJobs for remote work, though the listings there are about as legitimate as CareerBuilder.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I think it should be Federal law that EVERY job posting must include the base salary for the position being advertised. I get so sick and tired of seeing job postings with a laundry list of duties telling you what will be required of you, yet not one word about how much the damn thing pays and if bringing all that experience to the table will be worth your while.

Granted, if you haven't worked in a long time and/or just willing to take whatever you can get, it may not really matter about salary just so long as you are employed; however, if you already have a job and looking for something else, it would be nice to know upfront if making the jump would be worth it for you. You shouldn't have to wait to be called in for an interview just to find out the job doesn't pay enough for what they expect out of you.

R25

In 2011 I was making $51,500 per year and today I am making $145,000.

Do you think I'd be making 300% what I was making eight years ago if I had stayed in the same job at the same company?

Yeah, neither do I.

What do you do that earns 145k R24? Are you single?

I’ve been recruited for jobs I have zero interest in. Nothing in my resume says I’m qualified for banking or selling insurance.

In 2011, I was making 74K at a nonprofit. Inflation adjusted that 74K would be about 85K today. I went back to megacorp and now earn 110K. I desperately want to get out and am looking for nonprofit work. My friend works at a large nonprofit and recommended I apply for an open position. It's similar to the nonprofit job I completed in 2011. It pays 70K, my friend said they may wiggle a little bit. That's less than what I was earning 8 years ago, nevermind adjusting for inflation. It's really depressing how stagnant wages are for most of the workforce.

What's wrong with megacorp R33? I am working in academia now and want to make the move to for-profit to cash in but I have no real experience working outside of the ivory tower.

I've only ever worked for one megacorp so I can only speak of my personal experience and mine is a very niche one. So maybe loads of people love megacorp but I'm so done.

The cons of megacorp: you're just a number, your fate/treatment is down to algorithms. If the company could make one more dollar by bouncing your ass out on the sidewalk, you're out. Huge bureaucracy and red tape. Which is grimly funny if the megacorp you work earns revenue by consulting other businesses to better and more efficient. Meanwhile, you can't get the megacorp's expense department to fix your business credit card problem for a year. Everything is about the bottom dollar, we get annual training about integrity and the "Megacorp" way, but every day my interactions with my colleagues and executives devolve into how far we can push the envelope and getting away with it. I'm not brave enough to say that's wrong so I flow along and do my job and hope I can get out before the shit hits the fan.

The overarching issue is I do not believe in the mission of my department. As a Megacorp, of course the mission is to make profits off of our products and services. I don't have a problem with that. But my department deals with public and government entities and that's where I struggle with profits versus integrity.

And yes, I'm well aware nonprofts aren't the panacea either. Half my career has been in nonprofit and I had issues there too. Now that I'm looking for a new job--I'm giving the search for the unicorn job of good compensation, job satisfaction and mission alignment one more shot. There must be something out there. If not, then I guess I hold on with a grim death grip and then parachute to retirement as soon as my investment and savings sustain a lifestyle beyond pushing my worldly goods in a shopping cart and sleeping under a bridge.

How to push past the mental block of actually putting yourself out there? Actually sending in a resume? I feel like a writer in front of a blank page--if I could just get that first sentence?

The last time I was unemployed was in 2012 and I was out of work for 6 months. Embarrassingly, I never submitted a single resume. I got a job because an ex-colleague reached out to me about an opening at my old company. I met my old boss for lunch and got the job.

Yes, it could be partly laziness, but honestly, I think it's something more than that. Fear, I'm guessing...

R36, I have found it helpful to just start by doing a job search and seeing what is out there, before working on your resume. That way you can see what's available and tailor the writing to fit the openings.

[quote] That way you can see what's available and tailor the writing to fit the openings.

Please see my post at R7, point one. You have to do that EVERY time, with every submitted resume. That's expected now.

R36, are you saying you need to start writing your resume from scratch? How about just writing down the dates first. “2016 to present,” etc. Do the easy stuff first. Think of 3 people who would give you a good job reference, etc.

R39, no I have a resume that I last updated in 2014. I just can't get over the hump of actually submitting it anywhere. Mainly, because I have little interest in the jobs I see on Indeed and Linkedin. I think I just have zero interest in working for a living.

I don't think I'm that lazy--I volunteer 12-15 hours every month and have done so for nearly 10 years. Unfortunately, translating my volunteering into work doesn't really pay the bills (I volunteer with rescue animals).

R31

2011: Marketing database analyst; small human resources consultancy $51,500

2014: Salesforce business analyst; pharmaceutical services company $75,000

2018: Business and systems integration consultant; global IT consulting firm $110,000

2019: Principal solution architect, Salesforce platform; major big box retailer $145,000

Yes, I am single. I am the proverbial corporate gay workaholic. The money is nice but I recognize that a bigger salary at this point is not going to equate to more happiness so I am likely done job hopping for the next few years. My next play will probably be going into business for myself. Frankly, working for other people, and managing other people on behalf of someone else, sucks.

R38 That is ridiculous. If that's the case, then why have a cover letter? Is it not the purpose of the cover letter to go over the highlights of the resume and point out the ways in which they are applicable and beneficial to the job in question? If you have to do that in your resume now, then WTF are you supposed to put in a cover letter?

HR cunts need to die in a massive grease conflagration.

the facts of the matter are applying for a job is like being an actor auditioning for a part. Talent and experience do not matter - it is all about luck and appearance.

HR will hire someone who looks like Brad Pitt with no experience, AND NOT someone who has tons of experience but looks like Spike Lee.

[quote] That is ridiculous. If that's the case, then why have a cover letter? Is it not the purpose of the cover letter to go over the highlights of the resume and point out the ways in which they are applicable and beneficial to the job in question? If you have to do that in your resume now, then WTF are you supposed to put in a cover letter?

You should still do the cover letter, for the reasons you described.

But as I said in R7: There are ZERO human beings looking at your resume in Round One (and likely Round Two) of the application process. They're all using electronic systems to scan in your resume.

The ONLY way you get past that gate is to make sure that for THAT submission, you have as MANY of the keywords from the job posting as you can cram into your resume (and as many as you can cram that make sense). It's a pain to do, but without it, no matter how great the cover letter is, your resume immediately goes to File 13.

What I'm saying is different from the cover letter. Just print out any job listing, and highlight as many terms as possible. This is a short job listing:

We are seeking a highly organized and responsible office manager to join our growing organization. In this position, you will be responsible for managing the day-to-day operations of our organization to keep it running smoothly. You will develop organizational processes and systems for office personnel including filing, billing, accounts payable, payroll and scheduling.

Manage Scheduling

Organize office operations and procedures; ensure these procedures are being followed by staff

Ensure that all items are invoiced and paid on time

Assist in the onboarding process for new hires

So from the above, I'd put in as many words as I could. Not things like "assist" but words like onboarding, operations, procedures, scheduling, billing, accounts payable, etc. Once scanned, that system will search for those terms and if there's a certain percentage of them in your resume then hooray, you go on to the next step.

I didn't know this and was pissed when I found out, but it's how these damn online application systems work these days.

meow meow

When, at the end of a phone interview, the interviewers say, "Email us if you have any more questions about the position," do they mean it? Or will follow-up questions put you into the "insufferably annoying" bin?

Just had an interview for a job I REALLY want. It didn’t hurt that one of the interviewers was gay, and I’m well qualified. Fingers crossed, I’m on my 7th month of unemployment

Places that require a ton of references are so annoying. It’s so old fashioned and something that should end. The enterprising person is just going to get their friends and family to vouch for them anyway.

I hope you get the job, R47.

I got a job offer today. But I smell a rat. How can I check to see if a company is legit or not? I seem to be on the scam list. I get scam calls daily.

Linked In in useless.

About once or twice a year some complete stranger--or someone I met once a decade ago--asks me to introduce them to some professional contact who will introduce them to a different person who I do not know.

Does anyone put their professional network at the service of randos like Linked In expects you to do?

Or people you know slightly recommend your skills in areas that they have no knowledge of and ask you to do the same for them.

I just don't think I will ever end up working again.

Sorry to gloat, but I had an amazing interview today. I knew it was going to go well when the interviewer started with “I’ve been so eager to meet you. Your background is so unique and impressive.” Translation: “you’re older and we welcome that.”

I really want this job.

You BITCH!

Kidding. Lucky you, R54. We all wish for that, hoping you land it!

R54 here. I just realized I’m also r47. I didn’t get that job, obviously. I was so upset, and today was my first interview since then. Really hoping this one sticks; she said they’d be making a quick decision.

Good luck, R56. Hoping you get the job.

Any updates, R56?

I hate to tell you this, OP, but if you are over 40, it's going to be really tough. Ageism is against the law, but they all do it.

I have no idea how they integrate technology into job searches now, but I’ll say what I did. On my last job search, I sent out 1 resume and started before the end of the month, so I got pretty good at it.

You should have a story about everything on your resume, in case you’re asked. I canned candidates when their resume had skills on it that they clearly did not know. They probably heard of them, is all.

if you’re doing a phone screen, have those stories briefly written in front of you

I slightly customed the resume based on jobs I was applying for.

I was in tech. I used a “narrative” style resume, despite being in technology. Nobody wants to read a long list of computer languages in series. They respond to brief paragraphs saying how you used your skills. (I once reviewed my cousin’s resume. He was a recent college grad, and filled his resume with minutia about some college project. It was unintelligible and nobody is going to care. And I even did a similar college project. He revised his resume, then got the job he was targeting.)

So, have someone brutal like me critique your resume.

Don’t be someone you are not, unless you are an awful person. But just be honest, though diplomatic.

R58 thanks for asking. I got an email this morning from HR informing me I am one of two finalists, and she’ll be in touch in the “next few days” with their decision.

Last time I was in this exact same situation with another opportunity, they ended up hiring the other candidate because she spoke fluent Chinese, a market they were looking to expand into.

I REALLY WANT THIS JOB. 😩

R61, why do they say something as soul crushing as that, R61?

I'm crossing fingers, toes and my crow's feet for you, R56/R61!

Any news, R56/R61?

Linked In is the most useless site on the internet. It's Facebook for business. It used to be ok but has degraded into a weird zone of carefully worded posts or wildly religious/patriotic businesses shilling whatever they can. Getting a job or posting a resume on there is pointless.

Its design is clunky, old and just flat out ugly. The only reason Microsoft bought it was for names and addresses and herding people into Office.

R64. The wait has been excruciating. Finally got a call on Friday of last week, letting me know that she (HR) hasn’t been able to meet with the hiring manager yet as the latter was traveling in business. And, HR lady would be out of office this past Monday and Tuesday, so she was hoping she’d be able to meet with her this week. She reminded me that I’m one of only two finalists, and just wanted to let me know about the delay so I wasn’t left waiting and wondering, which I greatly appreciated.

Now every time my phone rings, my heart skips thinking it’s them, but turns out to be spam call (IN FACT JUST NOW I GOT ONE AND IT WAS A FUCKING CHINESE SPAM CALL!!!).

The wait and uncertainty is killing me. And if this one doesn’t come through, I don’t have any other prospects at least for the rest of the year, as most companies don’t hire until after new year.

Oh, those Chinese spam calls are driving me crazy!

Still crossing fingers for you!!

Still waiting. Hopefully I’ll be out out of my misery this week, either yes or no.

Just really don’t want to be unemployed during the holidays 🙁

I have a job interview via Skype this week. Advice on how to dress? On the one hand, it's a job interview. On the other, I'll be sitting in my house so over-dressed would seem silly. I'll make sure to have flattering lighting and shoo the pets out of the room.

You are wrong about LinkedIn r64. Ignore it at your peril, it is an invaluable tool for the job hunt.

Meant to refer to r65 of course.

And I wear business casual for skype interviews r69, I don't do a full suit.

I paid for LinkedIn Premium for nearly a decade but never found it much more than a FB-like way to reconnect with old friends.

I deleted my account in 2014 because I kept getting connection requests that were clearly from somewhere in Eastern Europe ... and they only got worse after I complained to LinkedIn. That said, I should probably bite the bullet and open a new account.

I always network through LinkedIn. If you are applying to a company, connect with someone in the department you are interested. Start a dialogue asking about their job and work culture at the company. That will often lead to them offering to pass along your resume.

Be very careful if you have a resume on Indeed—there are tons of stories out there of people getting fired because their current employer received an alert that they had updated their resume.

[quote] I have a job interview via Skype this week. Advice on how to dress? On the one hand, it's a job interview. On the other, I'll be sitting in my house so over-dressed would seem silly.

I would dress as if I were at the prospective employer's office. I wouldn't dress down just because I was at home. I would also pay attention to what's in the background (pictures, laundry, clutter, etc.). Good idea to get the pets out of the room; I'd make sure to have no barking sounds as well. I'd rather someone think I was over-dressed than under-dressed.

R70, I live a dangerous life.

[quote] Ignore (LinkedIn) at your peril, it is an invaluable tool for the job hunt.

Meh, I think its time in the sun has come and gone.

It CAN be a valuable tool, but honestly, almost no one who has a profile knows how to use it correctly, and now most people are just turning it into another Facebook - in other words, another repository for cat videos, MLM solicitations, and unsolicited political opinions.

Also, unless you are manager level or above, or an entrepreneur, there's not much on there for you.

R77 agree. I get so tired of the “invitations to connect” which is just another way of saying “I want to sell you something.”

OK all, I could use your honest advice. As stated above (I’m R56 R61 and R68), I was told by the HR woman — both in email and on phone — that I am one of the two finalists for the job, and that she’s just been having a hard time meeting with the hiring manager (with whom I interviewed and it went very well) to make a final decision. She said she hoped to have news by this past Thursday or Friday.

As of today, still no word. Should I reach out and ask if they’re still trying to decide? I may get an answer I don’t want to hear (that I didn’t get it), but the waiting is really driving me insane.

R79 I'm one of the ones that's been rooting you on!

I would say if you don't hear by this Thursday or Friday - a full week after she said she'd hoped to get back to you - it would be OK to contact her either by phone or by email.

Keep it upbeat and just let her know "hey, I'm just checking in, please touch base with me when you have an update, and have a great week!" sort of thing.

It can well be that the decision has to filter through the company at various levels. It could also be the news you don't want, of course. But I wouldn't jump to that as the first guess. The bureaucracy of hiring at some many companies is absolute fuckery.

Break a leg! (well...you know what I mean)

Thank you R80. It’s refreshing to know there are some kind folks on here. Though the majority are bitches!

I do worry that the “delay may be due to them possibly offering the job to the other candidate first, then waiting on them to accept or decline, and any possible background checks. Or it could just be that both the HR lady and the hiring manager travel frequently and legitimately haven’t had time to discuss (side note: isn’t that what phones and email are for too?)

Anyway, thanks again for your kind words and thoughts.

[quote] Though the majority are bitches!

I'm a bitch too, but one with feelings!

Well I just got the rejection email. Fucking sucks.

I really don’t know what I’m going to do next. I have no other leads in the pipeline, and hiring slows down immensely during this time of year (other than seasonal, hourly work)

I want to cry.

Oh, shit. I am so sorry.

Been there and still there.

They did you wrong. And it sucks.

[quote]now most people are just turning it into another Facebook - in other words, another repository for cat videos, MLM solicitations, and unsolicited political opinions.

Girl, you know some trashy people!

[quote]Also, unless you are manager level or above, or an entrepreneur, there's not much on there for you.

Yes, but perhaps my experience is biased towards people with higher level type jobs.

I am so sorry you didn't get this job r83. Few things are such a swift kick in the nuts than dealing with that. Don't give up. You are getting interviews and making it to the final round. Eventually something will work out for you.

R83 , Sorry to hear that. Don't be too hard on yourself. It happens to most of us, including me.

R85 Some of the people I see with those kind of updates are supposedly respectable business folks! Often they are just sharing, so that they have some kind of content on their feed.

But it's SO not what LinkedIn is for.

Heads up to business folks dealing with headhunters/outplacement firms, do your due diligence first (LinkedIn presence, phone number availability, staff photos legit vs. stock, BBB report, etc.) before engaging further and sharing personal information. I noticed during Covid there's been an uptick in these "businesses" reaching out. Link is 1 example that's suspicious

Any job leads I’ve ever had in the past 5 years (highly educated and have had to search 3 times in that time, so I’m used to it) have only been word of mouth through friends or Indeed (have interviewed for several jobs via Indeed). LinkedIn has done nothing for me—I don’t think recruiters are hired for people in my field, and if they are, it’s just to recruit people to work in the very least desirable sites. Major waste of time. The job search function is a joke—far fewer jobs posted here than indeed. Friends add me on it but it doesn’t help me professionally in any way. I agree that it’s basically just corporate Facebook.

I also wonder if it depends on the field. In mental health, no one hires recruiters because the supply of professionals for jobs is so high where I live so everyone’s competing for a few spots—even when they don’t pay well. Competition is fierce.

Wow, this thread popped up from a year ago. I'm still unemployed, but during this time have had one job offer that was delayed because of COVID. This was back in March when things were starting to spike in NYC. Months later they finally told me they wouldn't be filling the position.

Have been on so many interviews, both in person and video call, I can't even count them. I think my age (50) has a lot to do with it.

If my partner wasn't supporting me I'd probably be homeless by now.

R90 I was just reading your earlier posts and I’m sorry and truly empathise. Is there any possibility of retraining?

I’m 50 in Feb and dreading it. In employment now but with a nightmare manager and have been looking for 2 years but can’t seem to close the deal on any of the interviews I’ve had for a variety of reasons but I know age factors into it. I’ve got a zoom interview this afternoon for round one of the application process for a job I’d really love. We shall see...

Good point r91, especially with the wealth of time during Covid. If you're technically inclined, get online training/get certified in SQL, Python/other programming, project mgt, etc. (via Udemy, Coursera, EdX for e.g.), to complement soft skills

R41, can you explain in non-corporate speak, what those jobs were? Your titles, "Salesforce business" analyst" , "Principal solution architect", etc., all sound like those vague job titles they have for TV characters when they don't want to specify what they do for work.

Corporate America is soul crushing as fuck. Money does not make you happy.

I quit corporate job after 25+ years. I’m poorer and not sure I have enough for retirement but am enjoying life for first time in 25+ years. Life is too short to be miserable until 65. The fear of being broke at 80 keeps too many people in miserable jobs until,shortly before they die.