Joe Biden: "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids."

Some of them are clean and articulate.

Is he becoming senile?

Love the uncomfortable, tentative applause when he says it, and the way he seems to realize he fucked up and quickly kept on babbling hoping people wouldn't notice.

R2 becoming...? Still is...

He needs to borrow some Adderall or booger sugar from Trump.

Dan Quayle 2.0

Republicans are going to destroy the Biden gaffe machine. Biden has no business running for president at his fucking age. Why didn’t Obama talk him out of it? We’re doomed.

[quote]Biden has no business running for president at his fucking age. Why didn’t Obama talk him out of it?

You think Biden would take the advice of an African-American?

Oh boy.

Trump will get reelected. You cannot replace one senile leader with another senile leader. It makes no sense.

He’s had some neurological issues, I think brain surgery at one point. His health may be too uncertain for some voters. I remember an issue related to plagiarism that were partly attributed to a neurological concerns. This was a long time ago, though.

Ah Joe, I want to support you but you make it so hard.......

When air hits the brain, you're never the same.

How come Trump can get away with saying the most disgusting, appalling things day after day but Biden isn't allowed to make a few gaffes?

[quote] I think brain surgery at one point

Twice if I recall correctly

Man, he's too old for this shit.

Just enjoy your retirement old man.

Oy.

R13 More than a few. Biden is almost Trump level with his comments.

Biden has A LONG WAY TO GO, before he's as bad as Trump.

I don't care who the fuck the nominee's going to be. I'll be out voting for them no matter what.

I will continue whatever I have to do to Dump Trump out of the White House and into the big house.

And the concern trolls are out. Biden's always made gaffes--it's nothing new. And next to Trump's daily blithering on Twitter, it's not a concern.

Acknowledging that Biden is a senile old man isn't trolling.

He’s not up for the rigors of being President. VP pick and Cabinet will have to be chosen carefully because they are going to be running the country. And trying to talk him out of revisiting all of his tired and regressive ideas about women, pot, and criminal justice reform. Which is to keep those private prisons full by putting more people in jail for.....pot. Gateway drug. Just ask Hunter.

Sleepy Joe

Biden knows everybody and, unlike Trump, competent people will be willing to work for him. He shows no signs of senility--he's made gaffes his entire political career.

Some years being gaffe-prone might be an issue--but next to the insanity that is Trump, it's not an issue.

Yes, and the gaffes will worsen as the dementia worsens.

And there's Uncle Joe, he's a-lookin' mighty slow at the Junction.

R5 Poor analogy. Biden is an unpolished 250-year-old. I think people forget that. The man is probably scared to death to say anything to the press at this point and when he does...he can't really win.

We're in some WEIRD times.

Ladies:

The problem is Biden is winning the polls right now. Quit your bitching and get your candidates to be #1 in the pools.

Until then .... STFU!

R27 Because democrats want to support the 'liberal' version of Trump. Americans clearly have daddy issues.

OK not all poor kids are POCS. And not all white kids are bright and talented. What he said is still better than "go back to your shit-hole countries".

[quote]I remember an issue related to plagiarism

He say Mee-shell speech, no?

No more old fucking white men please. GO AWAY BIDEN.

There are plenty of good D candidates. Biden is not one of them.

Obviously you Keyboard Kylies don't do much public speaking. Because if you did you would understand that slips of the tongue happen. But go ahead and focus on this nonsense, while the current so-called president is making statements like "there are good people on both sides". But please, continue to focus on this piddling nonsense and see where it gets you.

Get back to me when Biden starts to support white supremacists. When he says things like, "there are good people on both sides."

You’re getting a lot of mileage out of that “both sides” aren’t you?

Jesus.

Yup, r34, it's the gift that just keeps on giving.

He just stumbled in a speech. He corrected himself. The difference between Biden and Trump. Biden is self-aware enough to know the shit coming out of his mouth is wrong and correct it.

"I believe in clean air. Immaculate air. … But I don’t believe in climate change.”

Rational people would take gaffe-prone Joe any day over the pussy-grabbing, both-sider-white-supremacist-sociopath in office.

For now his numbers reflect it.

But troll away anyhow.

Trump is an evil idiot.

Biden is self-unaware and kinda dumb.

[quote]You’re getting a lot of mileage out of that “both sides” aren’t you?

Never forget

The problem here obviously isn't that he stumbled, but that he stumbles all the fucking time.

So, r41? I don't care if he stumbles 100 times during a speech. I'm more concerned about less superficial thing like governing.

Hello, comrade R34. How’s the weather in Moscow?

So there are no poor white kids?

Get ready for another 4 years of Trump.

R27: No, bitch. We will most certainly not shut the fuck up. This is a pattern of behavior that shows he is not up to the job. And those of us not supporting him are not going to stand idly by while this senile old man sleepwalks into the nomination because OBAMA. Deal with it.

Awwww, r46 is supporting de Blasio.

[QUOTE]Get ready for another 4 years of Trump.

Only if Bernie is the nominee. Joe Biden’s not losing Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to Donald Trump just because of a few gaffes. With Joe on the ticket, we’ve got 270 electoral votes in the bank.

Yeah, right, r43. That’s what I am a Russian troll. We’re behind every corner and tree. Don’t peek, now.

This whole Russian troll shit is so overworked it’s ridiculous. Anyone who dares disagree with any statement gets a screeching “Boris!!”

You really need to expand your horizons and have an intelligent debate with those you disagree with.

Biden is not the only candidate. He is far better than DRumps, obviously. But, he is too old and out of touch. Lets move on from that and get a younger more in touch candidate.

Yeah, let’s get a young, hip candidate in there like Bernie Sanders or Liz Warren.

There are younger candidates, r50, and none of them are doing well in the polls.

R52, of course they aren't. here is why:

Well, look at this thread alone. Ppl seem to think Biden. Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and he has it. That is the problem. We stick with what we know too, which is dangerous.

It is far too freaking early. The polls tell nothing right now. He is up there because..well, read above.

Harris, Klobuchar, Booker, et al. They are good candidates and they don't have sunny acres mailing them adverts every week.

Harris and Booker are terrible candidates. Harris flip flops on everything and her record as a prosecutor is terrible. Booker is better known for his Spartacus moment because he has nothing else. He didn't achieve much as Newark's mayor. I'd take Biden and his verbal gaffes over these two any day. And, apparently most voters agree.

Amy is a good candidate but in a field of 25 she blends into the wall paper

Biden is far worse than any of the other candidates mentioned, R54.

In your opinion, r55...an opinion not shared by a large number of voters as evidenced by the polls.

R46, I agree with you. Enough with this old white man bullshit. Biden is way past his prime. His gaffes will certainly only get worse..along with his health, etc. He is old and out of touch. Yet somehow, people see him as more viable than the others. He is not a good candidate. AT ALL.

Guys, this prick scum bag is going to get reelected.

We need a STRONG candidate- This is fucked.. Truly fucked.

R56, of course in my opinion. Who else? Isn't that what this is all about? Opinion? What else brings a voter to the polls? Jesus.

And, the polls are early. VERY EARLY. They will change quite a bit.

One more reason for him not to be the democratic nominee. The guy is too damn old and can’t even think with common sense.

Just let Pete be the nominee. We need someone young. Enough of these old asses.

How on earth is this guy in the lead? He’s old and is lame.

I am a senior, but Warren, Biden, Trump, and Sanders are all multiple years older than I am, a couple of them by more than a decade. No more Reagan-Trump type characters.

My experience with certain wisdom are assets. My reduced sharpness and energy level are not. I handled stress much better when I was younger. And certain basic health issues grow with age, regardless how masked with tanning, exercise displays, etc.

I"m for the really young guy, Pete Buttigieg. Put his energetic ass in there and let him get to work and get the job done.

Not being mean here.... But it is sad to see the decline of someone like this... O.K. I get it that Biden has for a long time put his foot in his mouth but the long pauses and gaffes have increased and journalists like on CNN where they have interviewed him recently it was apparent they tried to help him along with something he couldn't articulate so this is not helping either..

It has been said that the establishment Democrats panicked when Bernie first announced his candidacy and Warren was low in polling so they convinced Joe to run so the establishment could try to ward off progressives from winning the nomination.. The more Joe talks the more the lower his polls go so this is not going to end pretty.

Disgusting.

Yesterday they mentioned on MSNBC that establishment democrats were warming to Elizabeth Warren as president. The prediction is by the time the first votes take place Warren will be even or ahead of Biden in the polls.

The only people who are making a big deal of slips of the tongue are those supporting a losing candidate.

[quote]He’s had some neurological issues, I think brain surgery at one point. His health may be too uncertain for some voters. I remember an issue related to plagiarism that were partly attributed to a neurological concerns. This was a long time ago, though.

He dropped out of the 1988 Presidential race due to plagiarism.

Elizabeth's taking the nom. It'll all work itself out, just watch. Seriously.

He had a brain aneurysm and had surgery twice in 1988 for the aneurysms.

Yeah R68, another aging blonde professorial woman as the Democratic Nominee. What could go wrong?

Liz will not have the kiddie debates to fall back on this time. She's lucked out in that respect.

Warren can't beat Trump. She will lose the midwest just like Hillary did. She's way too liberal.

R70 What other original quips do you have, fucko?

Triggered much R73? You're sorry ass needs to take a chill pill. You take politics way too personal.

Between this and his positive comment about the racist/segregationist he worked with 100 years ago, Dump will have a field day.

Not all immigrants are gangbangers!

Nah. Trump is so full of shit, that Biden's slip-ups pale in comparisons. I fail to see what Biden said that's so controversial. PC culture run amok. Y'all are stupid for real.

Trump will have a field day, r75? Oh, my sides. Every time Trump opens his mouth a gaffe falls out.

R77, I know you think you are cool. But y'all aint. And, in terms of stupidity, you win.

Biden’s history with plagiarism, racists/segregationists, groping young women (on camera) and the fact that he stutters will be an impediment.

His was a Freudian slip and everyone knows it.

Biden is the only alpha male running in the primary, so he wins.

The only alpha male? I'm still in the race, Joe.

He talks about his hardscrabble background in Scranton PA, but he was only there til age 10, when the family moved to Delaware and he went to prep school:

"Biden was born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, and lived there for ten years before moving with his family to Delaware. Biden attended the Archmere Academy in Claymont where he was a standout halfback/wide receiver on the high school football team"

The GOP has 20x the money the DNC does to spend on ads. They’re just going to play Biden and everyone other Dem candidate’s words on a loop. This is going to be Trump’s election to lose.

R54, Amy Klobuchar doesn't blend in to the wallpaper, she's so bland and in the background she IS the wallpaper.

For those of you playing the "whataboutism" game explaining how it doesn't really matter what Biden says/does because Trump does much worse on a daily basis, you are completely missing the point. The person who checked you out at the 7-11 this morning is more qualified and makes fewer gaffes per day than Trump; you can't get a lower bar than "being better than Trump." We need to select a candidate who is better and more equipped than Joe Biden and we have multiple other choices. Why didn't 2016 show you that you can't just go with the anointed one. (And, no, I was not and definitely am not a Bernie supporter.)

Why aren’t there any great candidates?

Amy Klobuchar will make a great Senate Majority leader one day. The presidency? Unless she truly surprises in Iowa it's hard seeing how her campaign moves forward.

His supporters have been pushing him HARD since before he even announced. It was "Step aside everyone, because this is the winner!" when he hadn't even confirmed if he was even running. Insulting to those who were actually in the running at the time, and even more insulting now given how lackluster and mediocre his campaign has been. Anytime any of the other candidates has a bump in the polls, it's "Well, they can be Biden's Vice President", while he stumbles around making mistake after mistake.

You would think by the first debate, which he clearly thought he could coast through that there was trouble, but his supporters don't want to hear it. They're so convinced that he's the only one who can win, that they're going to stick by him no matter what. If his supporters would just back off and let the primaries play themselves out, he wouldn't be getting eviscerated for every little gaffe. But they won't, and it's going to hurt him more than help him in the long run.

And so far that candidate isn't in the race, r86.

There are plenty of great candidates in the race.

Keep it up with the coronation. As evidenced by the comments on the internet today, people are getting sick of it.

Actually, I don't think this is representative of cognitive decline at all. He's always put his foot in his mouth like this, he just has something weird going on in his noggin that makes him say the wrong thing, always has.

The older voters might not actually care because they're desensitized to it. And honestly, I'm okay with him saying something like this as long as he doesn't DO something representative of what he said. Trump will say "go back to where you came from" and then have ICE deport 700 workers in one fell swoop and leave their little children orphans in the U.S. Biden will say "poor kids are as good as whites" but he won't pass laws reflecting that.

This is unacceptable.

He also referred to Theresa May as Margaret Tatcher last night.

Get back to me when it reflects in polling, r91, and not "comments on the internet".

Of course, the one benefit Biden has is that MSM won’t focus much on - if report at all - these insane comments he’s made.

If polling was the absolute truth, Hillary would be President

I should clarify: MSM SHOULD be reporting these insane comments. Let the voters decide.

Don't start with the deliberate misunderstanding of polls again, R97.

Polls are polls, they aren't laws of physics or clear mathematical equations.

He will not win. He is the leader NOW, but that will change.

Which means polls are prone to error. Which is exactly my point.

You pretty much obliterated your defense, BTW.

This is Biden. He's always been like this. He was perfect for VP. Now he should enjoy spending more time with his family.

R100 He’s not even the leader now. He’s being propped up by skewed polls and endless corporatist “journalism”, i.e. glorified opinions and commentary.

He barely has any volunteers or individual contributors, ranking below even Beto, I believe.

If Biden is the Democrat who runs against the racist, sexist, irresponsible imbecile in 2020, I fear that imbecile will be reelected.

He's too old to run for POTUS. That imbecile who is POTUS now is too old to be POTUS.

This might be the wrong thread to comment on this, but just look how they have compromised the presidency in part of the imbecile's age. He spends more time in bed watching his Ministry of Propaganda and tweeting than he does governing. He does not read anything. He is not briefed. He doesn't work as predecessors did. Even the Dumb Frat Boy read! This imbecile has Princess Plastic and her Prince Charmless as advisors. The imbecile takes weekends off.

We are truly fucked!

What if Biden and Trump secure the nominations for their respective parties and then both of these old geezers fall over dead before the election?

r96 YES! Just like when Biden said he would work with people that held views he disagreed with, the media totally covered for him and DIDN'T spend literally two weeks talking about it and how he should/must "apologize!"

Wait, no you're 100% wrong and the media did harp on it for literally two weeks straight, leading into the first dem debate.

Do you people really believe the media loves Biden? What the fuck media are you consuming?! The ACTUAL media has had the knives out for Biden since literally BEFORE he began running, and has kept the torch burning bright the whole time!

Racism is racism, no matter who says it. Funny how when a Democrat says something so obviously racist, you all make excuses and try to rationalize it.

R107 He’s not a true Democrat, though. He’s a Corporatist Neoliberal Republican.

[quote] Racism is racism, no matter who says it. Funny how when a Democrat says something so obviously racist, you all make excuses and try to rationalize it.

He mis-spoke; he immediately corrected himself. Funny how you can overlook the beam in your own eye.

It's called projection.

Fair enough, r108!

I mean it's pretty obvious that everything Trump says is worse. I don't even know why people are bringing that up. And even though i'm Australian, i'd vote for ANY Democratic nominee if I could.

But Joe Biden does NOT look like a strong candidate, and hasn't since day 1. Do people realise that the presidency is a FOUR YEAR (at least) gig? He can barely string a sentence together now, what is he going to be like in 2024?

Once a buffoon always a buffoon....

[quote] But Joe Biden does NOT look like a strong candidate

The stongest candidate is the Democrat most likely to win. And that's Biden.

I would prefer a candidate who is not absolutely ancient and has not lived in a rarefied bubble of privilege for a million years.

R113 You should replace that second sentence with, "And that's quickly becoming Warren."

We’re doomed.

Yeah, I love how the hate for Biden comes out strong on DL every time Sanders does shitty in the polls. He needs a better social media firm.

He is a racist, he grew up with beliefs that are racist, and while he tries to hide them, they emerge. Between the statement here, his statement about how R don't want "black folks" to vote, so they want to keep ex-convicts from voting, referring to a black candidate Obama as "clean, bright and articulate-- there is more and that is who he is. It is baked in, and while he tries to fight it...it is there. He is an old white man that should NOT be POTUS.

[quote] You should replace that second sentence with, "And that's quickly becoming Warren."

Show me the data that proves that

R119

That thread links to an article that indicates Warren can get the nomination. NOT that she can win in the Electoral College.

The goal is to beat Trump.

Anything like Kamala's "surge"? Everything seems like a surge when you are dealing with low numbers to begin with.

[quote]We’re doomed.

We've been aware of this for some time.

R107 and R118, Joe Biden is not a racist. His comments demonstrate, however, a racism embedded in society.

Do you realize how stupid all of you who are defending Biden by saying he's not as bad as Trump sound? Could you even pick a lower fucking bar than Trump? And, he's not that much older than Warren but she's sharp as hell. Biden has always been like this and it's getting worse. Go to Joe300303303033 to learn all you need to know.

AND AGAIN THIS IS WHY A LOT OF US DON'T WANT BIDEN

He does this shit all the time

he means well but he's inherently ignorant

Harris or Warren would never make such mistakes

too bad sexism will likely prevent them from winning

[quote] too bad sexism will likely prevent them from winning

AND THAT'S THE POINT.

You all bitchin and cryin that your preferred candidate is better than Biden are missing the point. The ONLY qualification the Democratic nominee needs to fulfill is the ability to beat Trump.

The fucking house is on fire. We don't have time to elect the "purest" candiate who is sure to lose.

"Help! Help! I'm drowning!"

"Here, this plastic raft will save you."

"No, I'm sorry that's not environmentally friendly. I'll just die knowing I did the right thing."

[quote]Yeah, I love how the hate for Biden comes out strong on DL every time Sanders does shitty in the polls. He needs a better social media firm.

Sorry, but I can’t stand EITHER of them. They’re too fucking old and out of touch.

r127 i think *you're* missing the point. the more Biden fucks up his perception as this campaign cycle goes on, the less likely he is to win and the more likely his competition WILL get the nomination and WILL win the electoral college.

The fact that I am probably going to have to vote for J. Biden in November 2020 makes me profoundly sad.

Joe Biden is like your old great-uncle. "He's black, but he's very well-spoken. He must've been raised around white people."

Really? Because people are just discovering Biden for the first time, r130?

How is Biden doing in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania? Are they unfamiliar with him?

And how exactly did he fuck up? He mis-spoke and corrected himself. Is that really a huge deal? And are Warren-supporters and Harris-supporters really helping their cause by making a big deal out of nothing?

Warren supporters - tell me which rust belt purple states will she win that Hillary lost last time? Does America really want a (well-meaning) perturbed schoolmarm as president?

As for Pete, dream on. Back in Realityland, the rest of us want to dump Trump.

You can "racism is racism" all you want, but Trump's administration just rounded up 700 immigrants, leaving their kids to fend for themselves, and later letting nearly half of the people rounded up go because they weren't illegally here at all. I mean, they clearly are rounding up hundreds of people at once because of their race. That's where we are right now.

Biden equates poor people with people of color. That's it. That's all.

Do not even attempt to tell me these are the same thing. Don't reduce this down to "they're both racist."

A lot of people, particularly younger voters, are discovering Biden as a Presidential contender for the first time. So yes, really. Pleasant reminder the voting age is 18, not 35.

"Because people are just discovering Biden for the first time, [R130]?"

[quote] Biden equates poor people with people of color.

And that wasn't what he meant and he corrected himself.

[quote] Pleasant reminder the voting age is 18, not 35.

Being elligible to vote and voting are two different things.

He should not be the candidate. Please go away Joe.

It's just going to get worse

r134, PA, MI

R138 great, glad you know that?

Why is that a question, r141?

What's your point? That these new voters will do so little research that they will assume Biden is a racist based on this flub and instead vote for the man who demonizes minorities and orders mass arrests of legitimate American citizens?

R142 more like they won't show up to vote, doris dumbfuck.

Biden completed high school long before busing. He sees the world just the way he described it in his recent quote because that's how he learned to see it from the perspective of his segregated youth. One of the goals of busing was to desegregate children at a moment in their lives when it could change how they viewed the world.

I don't think he's a racist, but he is a product of a world organized on racist principles.

[quote] more like they won't show up to vote, doris dumbfuck.

Right, because we have taught them that if they can't get their preferred candidate, they should sit out the election. That shows 'em!

Or...we could work our asses off to convince them that their future depends on voting for Democratic candidates...no matter which one...up and down the ballot, and that this is not the time for taking your toys and going home.

[quote]You all bitchin and cryin that your preferred candidate is better than Biden are missing the point. The ONLY qualification the Democratic nominee needs to fulfill is the ability to beat Trump.

Biden is not the only one who meets that criteria. Not one primary or caucus vote has been cast yet, so you damn right I'm gonna say Warren is better than Biden, and keep saying it. It's called a campaign, dear. It's also the truth.

And finally, no. Beating Trump is NOT the only qualification. Beating Trump and then promptly doing things business as usual, which is EXACTLY what Biden will do, will ensure a new Trump, one far younger, more articulate, more competent and more dangerous will arise and win in 2024. We need to beat Trump and win Congress and enact a new agenda for the American nation or a 2020 victory will be for nothing, as we lose everything in 2022 and 2024.

and WI r134 r140. Those wins were ridiculously narrow, and after years of Trump, more and more people hate him. He sucks and he made it obvious by actually becoming President. But you will actually have to excite black people and the young. Warren may struggle with African Americans, though I think hatred of Trump and his obvious racism will help enormously. Still, it will be a struggle. Black turnout declined a lot in 2016, and we need to get it back to 2012 levels to win this thing.

[quote] Beating Trump and then promptly doing things business as usual, which is EXACTLY what Biden will do

Saying this immediately means I can ignore everything else you say.

[quote] But you will actually have to excite black people and the young.

It is not enough to excite some black people and some 20-year-olds. You have to do it in larger numbers than you turn off or turn to Trump. There are plenty of Biden voters who won't vote for Warren becuase they are sure she will raise their taxes or Harris because they are sure she will make them pay reparations. It is several moving parts.

I have a friend who would happily volunteer to excite black men, if you'll just tell me where he should go to sign up.

Wondering. . . does Joe really think there are no poor white kids?

I don't want to have to spend the next five years shaking my head in embarrassment over Grampa Joe flubs and regretting all the mediocre, middle of the road policies that accomplish nothing. Due to his age, he is inherently sexist and racist. He is a product of the 1940s world he was born into. Yes, let's repeat that...1940s.

Oh my god. The old guy is old! And all this time he's fooled everyone by masquerading as a teenager!

R127 you're missing the point. I never said I care about the "purest candidate". I just want someone who's not going to routinely say ignorant shit like Biden does all the time.

He's very popular now but should he win the Democratic nomination, you can bet repubs will do a very good job of making Biden's gaffes seem somehow equivalent to those of Trump. Same with the media. Look what they did in 2016. By the time the election came around we had a lot of the public thinking Trump and Hillary were "equally as bad" which depressed votes for Hillary in key states. It's beyond bizarre how that narrative ended up succeeding but it did.

You don't think the same thing could happen with Biden?

Now surely one would think most American voters would see that no Democratic candidate is capable of being anywhere near Trump's low, deplorable level but the media and repubs will do their damnedest to make it seem so.

Biden only gives them a lot of ammunition for that

You will see countless articles about how Biden is going to embarrass us and that he's "not much better than Trump".

Finally, it's not all about who appeals to white working class voters. They are not the core of the Democratic base. It's more about getting people who stayed home in 2016 to come out in 2018. Most Trump voters will vote for him again unless the economy falls off a cliff before November 2020

What you people don't understand, is how absolutely delectable my feet taste. You just wouldn't believe how delicious they are. I simply can't stop jamming them in my mouth!

[quote] Wondering. . . does Joe really think there are no poor white kids?

Yeah. That's what he said or meant.

[quote] I don't want to have to spend the next five years shaking my head in embarrassment over Grampa Joe flubs and regretting all the mediocre, middle of the road policies that accomplish nothing.

Yes, much better to spend the next five years (or more!) with Hitler running the country.

[quote] I just want someone who's not going to routinely say ignorant shit like Biden does all the time.

You don't think "all the time" is wee bit of an overstatement?

[quote] He's very popular now but should he win the Democratic nomination, you can bet repubs will do a very good job of making Biden's gaffes seem somehow equivalent to those of Trump.

Especially if Warren-suporters and Harris-supporters buy into and spread the same bullshit and don't fight against it.

[quote] Finally, it's not all about who appeals to white working class voters.

Which is why I said above that you can't just say, "Warren will excite x-number of young voters to vote for her." Because there are lots of constituencies. The argument to make is that Warren, or Harris, or whoever wins more voters where it actually matters. Getting MORE votes in Massachusetts and California and losing them in Michigan is self-defeating.

[quote]There are plenty of Biden voters who won't vote for Warren becuase they are sure she will raise their taxes or Harris because they are sure she will make them pay reparations.

Since when? Harris support on reparations is weak. That's one of the biggest criticisms of her from the Black community.

Come on, we know the real reason Biden fans aren't keen on Harris and it isn't because of reparations, so let's stop the bullshit. They're still nursing a grudge because Harris confronted him about busing.

You are side-stepping the point. Which was that when you talk about other candidates you can't just add the voters they would get that Biden wouldn't to Biden's total. Because some will not vote for the Biden alternatives.

And saying Biden-supporters won't vote for Harris for some OTHER reason really doesn't change the underlying point.

[quote]I don't think he's a racist, but he is a product of a world organized on racist principles.

What a ringing endorsement!

Now I can't WAIT to vote for the old bastard.

Problem with Dem coalition is that it's hard to find a national candidate who appeals to all groups AND has platform that's palatable to left/ conservative ends of the party. Biden though is an ass-clown on a bad day, and he's been having more and more bad days than good recently.

Reparations and giving health insurance and other monetary support to illegal immigrants are not going to win over suburban voters of any race. Making everything about cultural issues and being seen as pro- illegal immigration instead of having actual plans to address economic realities of lower-middle/ middle-class voters will continue to derail serious discussions on issues such as the need for universal health insurance.

Joe Biden has ALWAYS been the "gaff machine," it isn't age related. One of my favorites was when he said the FDR turned on the television and learned about the stock market crash.

Do. Not. Care.

Biden's fine. His speech this week was great. I have zero problems with Joseph Biden.

So rumor has it that the “top” Democrats, meaning big money donors, are beginning to view Warren as a real contender and are coming round to her being the nominee. They see how feeble he is. How he struggles to answer questions without the benefit of canned responses and how ridiculous he sounds when he speaks off the cuff. How he just doesn’t have the energy and stamina to campaign for another fucking year. Plenty of us have issues with his Senate record and the regressive policies that he supported that did real damage to many Americans. Many of whom are still in prison because of his tough guy crime bill. And what is even more disturbing is the fact that he still believes that he did the right thing. No soul-searching. No contrition. And no shame. I don’t hate Biden but I don’t believe he’s the good guy people say he is. There are better candidates and we do need to continue to support them. This isn’t over by a long shot. And I resent anyone telling us who do that we should all just shut up and get with the program.

If you're going to lie about the reasons people won't vote for Harris, then you don't have a point. Furthermore, spreading bullshit would be the Biden supporters who were bringing up Willie Brown to try and discredit Harris the day after the debate even though he had nothing to do with the issue of busing. So you really don't have room to talk about acceptable levels of decorum among other democratic candidates supporters.

That "I'm rubber you're glue"-esque response was cute, but that's not going to work when courting adult voters. All you're going to get is ignored.

[quote] And I resent anyone telling us who do that we should all just shut up and get with the program.

Good thing no one has.

[quote]I'LL STILL VOTE FORM HIM

Not to mention r160:

YOU STILL TYPE LIKEM HIM

"Why aren’t there any great candidates?"

They're all great. Because each and every one of them- including Marianne Williamson- is better than Trump.

[quote] If you're going to lie about the reasons people won't vote for Harris, then you don't have a point.

If you are responding to me, getting mad that Biden voters won't vote for Harris FOR WHATEVER REASONS is immaterial. Because you don't change the underlying fact that SOME BIDEN VOTERS WON'T VOTE FOR HARRIS. This is also true of all Biden voters and all other candidates. If you want to defeat Trump AND you want to prove your candidate WHOEVER HE OR SHE IS can defeat Trump you have to prove that your candidate brings enough voters to overcome the voters they lose because they aren't Biden in states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

There are so many invisible deplorable posts in this thread. We see where you're flailing away, dumbass losers. We enjoy your panic.

You prove a candidate has enough voters by going through the primary process. The debates, the state votes, all of it. You don't do it by declaring a winner a year before the convention. So wait for the process to unfold.

It's ridiculous to say so and so is the one at this point, because that's not how it works. Leads change, momentum switches. That's the process. Trashing any other candidate who doesn't have the lead right now is not going to sway their supporters to your camp.

[quote]Finally, it's not all about who appeals to white working class voters. They are not the core of the Democratic base. It's more about getting people who stayed home in 2016 to come out in 2018. Most Trump voters will vote for him again unless the economy falls off a cliff before November 2020

You realize Biden has the black vote now, r153, and by a lot.

I WILL ALSO VOTE FORM JOEM

I'll vote blue no matter who. If it's Biden, I'm voting Biden, and not sitting around whining about gaffes or hairlines or age, or crying that "we have to do better than this." Why? Because the alternative is Trump, and I am not a goddamn fucking moron who is going to let my widdle fee-fees get in the way of defeating that fascist monster.

[quote] You prove a candidate has enough voters by going through the primary process.

No. All you prove is that that candidate appeals to the most Democratic Party voters.

[quote] You don't do it by declaring a winner a year before the convention. So wait for the process to unfold.

No one has declared a winner.

[quote] Trashing any other candidate who doesn't have the lead right now is not going to sway their supporters to your camp.

On that we can agree. If you add: "Trashing any other candidate who HAS THE LEAD RIGHT NOW OR doesn't have the lead right now is not going to sway their supporters to your camp."

Bernie is better.

Harris and Warren don't have a chance of being elected.

I get all that r148, but again these were extremely close victories for Trump in 2016, so you don't have to excite millions of new people to overwhelm the Trumpistas. The Democratic nominee is almost certainly going to lose the white vote. It happens pretty much every times since like 1960 (where is the Poll Troll when you need him?) Old white people, especially old white men, are pretty much gone. Joe Racist who's just glad somebody is finally speaking up for the little guy who just happens to be an asshole, he's gone. Those assholes vote, constantly, relentlessly.

Who do you get to make up for that deficit? You need to get those low voter turnout types to turn out? Young people, black people, hispanics. Another possibility is suburban white women, and the Republican Party is really starting to panic about them. They hate the fucker in the White House. They see him for the pussy grabbing rapey vicious grifty scumbag he is, and they don't like it. I'm not sure Warren will really turn them off, maybe, not sure.

Also tax cuts were a good standby for Republicans in the past, but I think the Trump tax cut has finally opened people's eyes that it's all complete bullshit. The whole taxcut thing is of, by, and for the rich and nobody else. All the money goes to the top. It's the Republican way and I think they made that obvious this time around.

I think any of the top 10 Democrats has a chance to win in the General. Trump is such an asshole, and so clearly an asshole, and the Republican Party is so clearly corrupt and full of shit, that any plausible Democrat has a chance to win. And again, the last time around was so damn close. Hillary won the popular, as we've all heard 3 million times, but even the electoral was a real tossup. It's not a walk, it will take a struggle, but it is ridiculous to say any of the top tier Democrats has no chance.

The media and Biden's supporters want him to be coronated, then that's going to be their iceburg to hit.

Amen, R162.

You know how to spot a troll...it's someone who says the media supports Biden. Anyone following the race knows that the media is anything but kind to Biden.

Bernie has been fighting for Civil Rights since the 60’s...

I wonder what Uncle (he ain’t my fucking uncle) Joe was doing.

R178 Truth my ass. They basically suck his cock. He’s Trump Ultra Lite, which makes them feel safe.

R178, the media has been very obviously behind Biden from before he even announced. They were listing him in polls before he announced and then claiming that the votes he got were not related to name recognition. The narrative took off from there. They are shaping the entire story again. Only stupid people fall for this shit. These are the same people who fall for shit sold during infomercials over and over. Stop slurping up the media's narrative. No, Biden is not the best. No, Harris didn't do anything special during the first debates. And on and on. Just stop being idiots and start thinking for yourselves.

[quote]Yes, much better to spend the next five years (or more!) with Hitler running the country.

I knew one of the morons would echo this shit like the good little trained monkey they are. The choice isn't Biden or Trump, dumbass. We're not there yet. In case you haven't noticed, this is the primary. Can you say primary? I know you can.

Today's media would have taken out FDR and loved Hoover.

I would love for Pete to win, but I know that's not realistic. We're not quite there yet as a society. And it's a shame because he's very good.

Biden is SO racist that the first black president in American history passed over him and choose a disabled woke-progressive trans women of color to be the vice president. Obama knew Joe "racist" Biden was too racist to even want to associate with a black man, so he said "see ya later joe!" and choose a less problematic candidate.

That's how it happened, right? Right?

r181 and anyone still lying to themselves and other people about "how the media loves joe biden." What media are you consuming?! On MSNBC ANY time joe biden comes up, it's always framed as "Will this be the thing that sinks joe biden" or "is joe biden really up to this new challenge?" or "joe biden must answer and apologize for this new contrived nonsense!"

You are seriously delusional if you think the media loves joe, and I say this as someone who doesn't particularly like him much. You sound JUST like the bernie bros talking about hillary in 2015-2016, so I'm forced to assume that you actually want trump to win again. Good job.

Thanks for all that, r181. You really know how to win people over to your side.

[quote] The choice isn't Biden or Trump, dumbass.

The point was, Princess, that if it was Biden versus Trump we have a chance. Nominate someone else we might not. So, yes, we are talking about who gets the nomination in the primary process. But a victory in the primary process is not enough and some of us can see byond our dicks to the general election and the electoral college.

The pro-Biden fanatics are really infesting the thread right now.

Yeah, anyone who thinks Biden is a loser dud of a potential candidate (just like all the other times he ran) wants Trump to win. Sounds logical.

And, he is racist and sexist. He's not a member of the Klan type of racist. He's grandpa racist. He's not "I hate women" sexist. He's "little lady" sexist. It's all due to his age. It's who he is. If you want proof of that, go ahead and look at his history. Start with the Crime Bill and Anita Hill and go from there.

And, the reason Obama put Biden on the ticket is so the racists would vote for the ticket. Obama needed a safe white man on the ticket that wouldn't scare away the racist fucks. Don't act like Obama put him on there because of his great Civil Rights history or any other reason.

[quote] Yeah, anyone who thinks Biden is a loser dud of a potential candidate (just like all the other times he ran) wants Trump to win.

No one said anything remotely like this.

[quote] And, the reason Obama put Biden on the ticket is so the racists would vote for the ticket.

You completely pulled this out of your ass and have no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Pick Bullock or Tim Ryan if Trump is to be beaten.

Bernie or any of his pied piper copycats will drown in their open borders, ICE bashing, taking down Wall Street where millions of the middle class have investments, abolishing the right to access private health insurance, providing undocumented migrants free health care, free college tuition to all, canceling all student loan debt, everyone is a victim except a young white guy, and run a scam of cutting billions in checks under the name of reparations. Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin won't buy into it. In fact, Democrats would lose more states.

Warren was a twice Regan voter and George H. W. Bush voter twice. I am younger than she is and didn't vote that way.

[quote]The media has been very obviously behind Biden from before he even announced.

Bullshit. Right from the outset they pounced. Have your forgotten about "shouldergate"?

[quote]They were listing him in polls before he announced and then claiming that the votes he got were not related to name recognition.

Are you from this country? Do you not know that the media doesn't list anyone in polls? It's the pollsters who conduct polls.

[quote]The narrative took off from there. They are shaping the entire story again. Only stupid people fall for this shit. These are the same people who fall for shit sold during infomercials over and over. Stop slurping up the media's narrative. No, Biden is not the best. No, Harris didn't do anything special during the first debates. And on and on. Just stop being idiots and start thinking for yourselves.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

[quote]I knew one of the morons would echo this shit like the good little trained monkey they are.

Oh, the irony.

Reagan^ (sp.)

"And, he is racist and sexist."

No, he's not. You're an idiot.

R189, proof number one that people are literally posting from up Joe's ass.

Are you really going to try to argue that the news shows don't do their own polling? Are you insane? Of course the media runs their own polls. They are on every single one of their new shows all the time.

R187, yes, they are saying that...

[quote]You are seriously delusional if you think the media loves joe, and I say this as someone who doesn't particularly like him much. You sound JUST like the bernie bros talking about hillary in 2015-2016, so I'm forced to assume that you actually want trump to win again.

Biden's foaming at the mouth supporters who can't accept the reality of who the man actually is and are instead slurping up media tropes are going to fuck this up again.

And, yes, there was plenty of talk about Obama having to put a safe white guy on the ticket to make sure the people wouldn't be scared away by the scary black man in charge. They ignored all kinds of other shit in the process and, according to this article, they did it because Obama thought Biden would be too old to run as his successor in 2016. Obama was right.

[quote] And, yes, there was plenty of talk about Obama having to put a safe white guy on the ticket to make sure the people wouldn't be scared away by the scary black man in charge. They ignored all kinds of other shit in the process and, according to this article, they did it because Obama thought Biden would be too old to run as his successor in 2016. Obama was right.

Nice try, but that wasn't the claim. The claim was Obama selected a racist to appeal to the racists.

[quote] But Joe Biden does NOT look like a strong candidate, and hasn't since day 1.

Obviously, he DOES look like a strong candidate, or he wouldn't be polling well ahead of the rest of the pack. DL'ers keep insisting that Biden's a disaster, that everybody hates him, and that there's no hope for his campaign. And poll after poll after poll continues to show the complete opposite. Warren could be a real contender, and so could Sanders (even though DL hates him too). But that's it. The rest of the Democratic candidates, including Harris, are all stuck in the single digits and gaining no traction at all. If they're such great candidates and so much better than Biden, why can't they even break into the double digits?

[quote]The claim was Obama selected a racist to appeal to the racists.

R193 is a liar. Here's exactly what I wrote.

[quote]And, the reason Obama put Biden on the ticket is so the racists would vote for the ticket. Obama needed a safe white man on the ticket that wouldn't scare away the racist fucks.

Try some reading comprehension lessons. You cannot argue that Biden isn't racist and sexist in the way that almost every single 80 year old white man in the country is racist or sexist. His record speaks for itself. He speaks for himself. He's too fucking old. He is from a different time. He's almost two generations removed from where the Democratic party needs to be. Trump, the Repugs, and the media will eat him alive if he gets the nomination.

[quote] Are you really going to try to argue that the news shows don't do their own polling? Are you insane? Of course the media runs their own polls. They are on every single one of their new shows all the time.

You obviously know nothing about polling. The media do not do their own polling, even though they put their own name on them. The media's polls are conducted by outside polling firms. The NBC News/Wall Street Journal polls, for example, are not conducted by NBC News or by the Wall Street Journal. They are conducted by Hart Research Associates (a Democratic pollster) and Public Opinion Strategies (a Republican pollster).

Do you really think that the news reporters and anchors are the ones who do the polling? Are you really that stupid?

[quote] You cannot argue that Biden isn't racist and sexist in the way that almost every single 80 year old white man in the country is racist or sexist.

So you are making a gross generalization about people based on their race and age. Irony.

[quote] and WI [R134] [R140]. Those wins were ridiculously narrow, and after years of Trump, more and more people hate him

or not

The Scary Proposition That Trump Is Gradually Becoming More Popular

First up, he calls attention to something most of us have ignored since Trump took office: the president’s personal favorability ratings. Yes, we all know that Trump won despite astonishingly low favorability numbers (an Election Eve ratio of 36/61 according to Gallup). But Cohn notes these numbers now look better for POTUS:

Millions of Americans who did not like the president in 2016 now say they do. Over all, his personal favorability rating has increased by about 10 percentage points among registered voters since Election Day 2016, to 44 percent from 34 percent, according to Upshot estimates.

That is still well under a majority, though not far below the 45.9 percent of the popular vote he won in 2016. But more important, Cohn suggests, a lot of these voters who have a newly favorable view of Trump may not have voted for him last time around:

epublicans with an unfavorable opinion of Mr. Trump were more than twice as likely to stay home on Election Day as those with a favorable view, according to New York Times/Siena surveys of North Carolina, Florida and Pennsylvania in 2016.

It seems likely that a substantial number of these voters now have a favorable view of the president: Over all, 28 percent of Republican-leaning voters with an unfavorable view of Mr. Trump in 2016 had a favorable view of him by 2018, according to data from the Voter Study Group.

[quote]One of my favorites was when he said the FDR turned on the television and learned about the stock market crash.

That’s spooky cause I readed that’s how Lincoln found out about Fort Sumter.

[quote]Are you really going to try to argue that the news shows don't do their own polling? Are you insane? Of course the media runs their own polls. They are on every single one of their new shows all the time.

If only there were a place on the Internet that collected polling data. If would be even more amazing if we could go back to February / March, before Biden entered the race, to see who was doing the polling. If only such data existed on the Internet.

Oh, wait...

[quote]passed over him and choose a disabled woke-progressive trans women of color to be the vice president.

[quote]he said "see ya later joe!" and choose a less problematic candidate.

Oh, dear!

R186 = Truth.

I can't figure out who he is being more condescending to with that comment, brown or white kids? Sounds like both.

Just let the Billion Dollar Loser keep on talking and tweeting. He'll lose bigly. It doesn't matter who the Democratic Party nominates, as long as the nominee is relatively centrist they win.

Now let's take a look at McConnell and the Senate races.

This thread got messy, lol.

LizBern4EVAH!

Why?

And WTF did he mean when he said Americans “choose truth over facts?”🤨

It’s like he doesn’t even know what’s going on.

This is more than worrisome. Good grief. The fate of the country is at risk. And Biden will keep saying stupid stuff. Trump will mock him like no other.

Gee if Joe is what white kids grow up to be, we're kinda hoping we're a little brighter than white kids.

There is only one hope for the Democratic Party in 2020...and it is spelled G-I-L-L-I-B-R-A-N-D.

Biden's comments are soaked in white supremacy. He makes "gaffes" about race and gender because he is revealing how he really feels. His "corrections" are him just back-peddling. At least Trump is honest.

And this mans is the best and the brightest the Dems have to offer?

I change my mind, I'm willing to support Elizabeth Warren.

This could be a real trainwreck if Biden actually gets in. I guess the plan is to get a VP that will wow everyone, because we know that is who will be really running things?

"At least Trump is honest."

You are retarded. A mental defective, like all Trump lovers.

I'd rather have the white supremacy out in the open than hidden. R215

R117 ? Dl is not a burntard haven.we know he's partly to blame for rump.

Get this through to your head. Old people vote. They get Trump and Biden. You wanna lose in 2020 choose someone that scares old white ppl. But they get Biden and his message.....

In 2016, this was once again the case, as citizens 65 years and older reported higher turnout (70.9 percent) than 45- to 64-year-olds (66.6 percent), 30- to 44-year-olds (58.7 percent) and 18- to 29-year-olds (46.1 percent).May 10, 2017

Census people

If anyone should realize that old people shouldn't be in charge of running anything, let alone the country, you'd think it would be OTHER old people!

God, the Trump trolls are out in full force.

r220 you can be a Democrat and still think Biden is not the right choice. Not everybody is a Trump troll for disagreeing with certain Democrats.

Something is fucked up in this country when outrage is growing on an honorable man like Biden. But da fuq! We have a sexual predator, a racist instigator, a money launderer in the White House. Not to mention ties to Cuban and Russian mafia elements. Right now! But omg, let's focus on this guy's gaffe.

R222, he's not running against Trump yet. What do you people not understand about this? It's the primaries. He's running against better Democrats. But, hey, the Repug voters want Biden to be the nominee because then maybe they'll consider voting Democratic (maybe) so, sure, let's just bend over and let the Repugs choose our fucking candidate.

Biden's running against the flavor of the week. Week after fuckin week. The man gets the presidency. I mean he was Obama's right hand man in everything. Is there anyone more experienced than Biden to hold office tomorrow?? I mean, come on. Buttigieg and his 8,000 votes in S Bend Indiana?

[quote]If anyone should realize that old people shouldn't be in charge of running anything, let alone the country, you'd think it would be OTHER old people!

Actually, you’re right. Older voters are less likely to support an older candidate if they feel that age has diminished the candidate’s abilities. So they are not going to discriminate just based on age, but will if they see enfeeblement.

If Biden is so great a candidate, why did he spectacularly fail every single other time he ran?

[QUOTE]Something is fucked up in this country when outrage is growing on an honorable man like Biden. But da fuq! We have a sexual predator, a racist instigator, a money launderer in the White House. Not to mention ties to Cuban and Russian mafia elements. Right now! But omg, let's focus on this guy's gaffe.

The media has been trying to bring Joe Biden down since months before he even announced his run. They’re doing to him what they did to Hillary Clinton.

Who are these people who when polled say they would vote for Biden but, if Biden isn't a choice, they'll vote for Trump? I mean, what are they basing that on? They just want an old white man and nothing else matters? Don't get it.

r228, that sounds like the better the devil you know reasoning, which many people use.

There is no sane person that can see every single Democrat other than Biden as a devil equivalent to Trump.

r230, the phrase doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means.

I don't give a fuck who the Dem nominee is. I'm voting blue no matter who.

Enough of this fucking clownery.

[quote] He's running against better Democrats

The best Democrat is the one people will vote for. If the other Democrats are so much better, why are most of them polling in the single digits while Biden is polling in the upper 20s? And if you say, "It's because of name recognition and familiarity," then why, after two rounds of debates and months of campaigning, is Biden STILL polling in the upper 20s while most of the rest are STILL polling in the single digits? Yes, by all means, let's dump Biden and throw all of our support behind a candidate that nobody wants, just to please a few trolls on DataLounge.

R231, I do know that the phrase means. Do you? They choose Biden when given the Biden/Trump choice because they are both equally known. But, if given the choice of Trump/any other Democrat, they consider all the Democrats unknown quantities enough to the point where they'll take their current devil over the Democratic devils.

The problem is that in order to say that, you have to believe these people making this choice see every single Democrat other than Biden as a devil on the same level as Trump because you are saying their choice is based on them choosing the devil they know better, Trump. I'm saying that no sane person could compare Trump to all the Democrats and see equal devils. To go from Biden to Trump rather than any other Democrat, they'd have to believe that all non-Biden Democrats are either equally evil to Trump, otherwise they would not be characterized as "devils you don't know" in the first place.

You cannot be sane and make that jump.

It doesn’t mean what you think it means.

I would vote for Biden over Trump in the General. I am scared that Biden will fuck it up and the GOP/Trump will destroy him. I think we need someone who can stand up to Trump and can form sentences while speaking.

For me it is truly, Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren I would feel so safe if they were President.

I remember when they said there was NO way that Trump could win the WH. Then, I woke up in hell. Are these polls that reliable in the age of Trump?

Also, if Biden wins the Primary, can he deal with a grueling campaign against Trump/GOP? He already looks exhausted. This does worry me. He is doing this full time. Bernie and Elizabeth have full time day jobs too.

Yeah. Old people. Many of us came of age in the sixties. We stopped a fucking war. We are not afraid of change. We don’t hate the young. Just the stupid. And many of us believe that Biden is not up to the job of being president. It is going to take someone with solid ideas on how to put this country back together again and the will to do it. And that is not Old Joe.

Listen you fucks, we 're in dire straits. I don't care if Daffy D Duck is the favorite for Dems. We need to focus on getting this ballsack out of office. Everybody chill. Kamala doesn't stand a chance. Beto? Not his time. The Wonder Twins -Sanders and Warren? Too left and weird to swallow.

Like it or not, Biden is the man. No, we don't WANT a Democrat version of Trump, but we're gonna NEED one to win. Sorry but we're gonna be on some Gladiator shit in 2020.

What will be the Dem response when Dump starts claiming that Biden is a pedophile and starts putting up TV ads showing Handsy Biden. There is lots of YouTube videos that capture him in the act. This will put him on defense and their is no mistaking what he's doing to these young girls. Biden is not a good Presidential candidate. Period.

The trolling on display in this thread is depressing.

I don't believe he "misspoke" - but rather conveyed what was in his heart and head. Sadly, many that age are inherently racist due to social conditions when they were young. Some profess to have evolved but deep down, the feelings of white superiority remain.

R242 is right, it was a Freudian slip.

Everyone, isn't this more about which democratic nominee can DEFEAT Trump vs who is truly the best democratic nominee?

In my opinion (and this is barring him (Biden) descending any further into senility-

Best democratic nominee- Warren- BY A FUCKING MILE

Best nominee in terms of actually having the chance to beat Trump- Biden, by a mile. And I don't even know if he can. There is too much time between now and 2020.

Scary times. Perhaps if Biden picks a supremely strong vice presidential candidate, it can take him over the line. I do not know.

R239, I guess we are on same wavelength. I should have read posts before posting. Agreed 100%

[quote] Best democratic nominee- Warren

She's Bernie light.

Trump lost the primary debates and still got the repub nomination. Trump lost the debates with Hillary and still won the presidency. We have to stop thinking like it is politics as usual. Biden isn't the only one that can beat Trump and quit acting like he is going to be our savior.

I happen to be in one of those states (Arizona) where people are saying it is purple because we finally have a dem senator. The repubs here love Kyrsten Sinema because she is more like a repub than a dem. She does not have the balls to call out Trump for his racist behavior because doing so would upset the repubs. Will Sinema campaign for the dem presidential nominee? I'm betting no at this point.

R247- Then who can beat Trump in your opinion?? Out of these people???

[quote]What will be the Dem response when Dump starts claiming that Biden is a pedophile and starts putting up TV ads showing Handsy Biden. There is lots of YouTube videos that capture him in the act. This will put him on defense and their is no mistaking what he's doing to these young girls. Biden is not a good Presidential candidate. Period.

And Trump will. Remember when he paraded the Clinton women out? There’s no low he won’t stoop.

I’ll happily vote for Uncle Joe if he’s the nominee. I’ll happily vote for any of the Democratic nominees.

Except for Sanders and Gabbard. Hopefully these Russian assets will get their asses handed to them early in the process. Sanders can sit in the corner sniffing and snorting for months again and Gabbard can fall in a volcano.

R239: I'm not voting for Biden in the primary under any circumstances. And no amount of you lying and fear mongering about other candidates and stamping your feet in a tantrum is gonna change that.

[quote] [R239]: I'm not voting for Biden in the primary under any circumstances. And no amount of you lying and fear mongering about other candidates and stamping your feet in a tantrum is gonna change that.

Irony!

This is not good. We NEED Biden both to psychologically reconnect to the Obama era and also because he is the only one of the current crop who has a real chance.

This is not good. We NEED Biden both to psychologically reconnect to the Obama era and also because he is the only one of the current crop who has a real chance.

No, it's not good.

I don't think poor kids are as talented as white kids

New poll out of North Carolina has Biden beating Trump by 8 points. And Sanders leading by 4 points.

Every single poll shows Biden defeating Trump, and yet some of you want to deny the facts staring you in the face. The ONLY candidates who polling shows can defeat Trump are Biden and Sanders, with Biden beating him decisively. This includes the states of Texas and NC.

And the DNC will NEVER allow Sanders to get the nomination.

We need him but...my God..if he gets the nom and then gaffes and flames out...or wins and then flames out as president...I can't. I just can't!

R259: MARY!!!!!

I find it interesting that so many people truly believe that only Joe Biden can beat Trump. You act like tons and tons of voters are following every debate and every piece of news coverage when the truth is that, overall, we have a low interest population when it comes to politics. Most people aren't even going to care about the presidential race until AFTER the Democratic nomination is decided next summer. They care much more about baseball and football and Kartrashians and Beyoncé so, when asked who they'd vote for, many of them just choose Biden because he's the only, or one of the few, names they even recognize.

We need to pick the candidate who has the best chance of coming off as charismatic and relatable and up for the job who won't also self-implode be that via constant gaffes, having their own stupid e-mail server, sexual misconduct/being overly touchy, or having too far left tendencies to scare just enough people away.

Jesus Christ R257- This is the exact shit that went down in 2016- When are we going to learn our lessons here??

Wasn't Hillary with a similar lead around the same time???

That election proved that ANYTHING is possible.

I don't give a fuck if he is 16 points ahead, I truly do not know if Biden can win against him if he keeps fucking up like this.

R257, as surprising as it may be to those of us here who are politically involved, there is still a huge amount of name recognition in these polls. I work with the public and the ignorance of 95% of them is astonishing.

R235, you stupid fuck, I'll use fewer words without exact examples so you can understand. When given a choice between two seemingly equally bad choices, people will stick with the bad choice that is the known quantity. The point is you have to have equally bad choices to start with. The non-Biden Democrats are not equally bad compared to Trump except to insane people. Therefore, your stupid idiom does not apply.

[quote] Wasn't Hillary with a similar lead around the same time???

The difference here is that we're not just talking about whether Biden can beat Trump, but how Biden fares vs. the other Democratic candidates. DataLoungers keep insisting that Biden would fare much worse against than Trump than any of the other Democrats, but the polls consistently show the opposite. Biden appeals to moderate and independent voters in swing states like Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin in ways that most of the other Democrats simply don't.

[quote] if he keeps fucking up like this.

One slip of the tongue, and you make it sound like he's been fucking up everything. He did fine in both debates, and his poll numbers have been consistent. Stop overreacting.

Everything you just said in your first paragraph I agree with word for word. And that is why I want Biden to make it. He has the perfect republican/democrat balance. Not one of the other candidates has this quality (And it is required to beat Trump) If this wasn't the case I would vote for Warren in a heartbeat.

I am overreacting because we have the old grabby grandpa thing going, now we have the senility type fuck ups. It is scary. Because I really do feel that he is all we have that can beat Trump.

R256 Poor, Asian kids are more bright than white kids.

trump would have said “poor kids are not as smart as white kids” and it wouldn’t be a case of him misspeaking.

[quote]Yeah, anyone who thinks Biden is a loser dud of a potential candidate (just like all the other times he ran) wants Trump to win. Sounds logical.

You seem to be responding to me, but this is not what I said.

I said that if the country chooses Biden as the nominee, I will vote for him, because getting Trump out of office is the first step to getting our country back. Full stop. If you sit out or vote third party because you've got sads that Joe is "grandpa racist" then fuck you, you're giving a vote to Trump.

I'd be angry that people like you don't realize how fucking BAD it is in this country right now, but you're not on the threads about ICE rounding up citizens just because they weren't white, or about how the voting machines really are online and visible and insecure (therefore hackable), or even on the threads about disaffected 20-something white boys committing massacres because Trump told them we were being invaded by Mexicans.

That's how I know you're completely worthless, and you're just trolling to divide liberals. You know how bad it is. You don't care. You want to whine because Joe Biden probably calls women "little lady" sometimes and that's the worst thing in the world... or you hope we'll believe it's the worst thing in the world.

r261 what you wrote is very true. I think it's easy to forget that many, many Americans are not political junkies and are not following absolutely everything every day.

The "good advice" on this thread involves blaming HRC for having her own email server. Typical.

[quote] And that is why I want Biden to make it. He has the perfect republican/democrat balance. Not one of the other candidates has this quality (And it is required to beat Trump) If this wasn't the case I would vote for Warren in a heartbeat.

Warren is smart and feisty. But most of her ideas are too far to the left to have wide appeal in the general election. You can already imagine the GOP attack ads: "Elizabeth Warren wants to take away your private health insurance AND raise your taxes to pay for it." Besides, we've tried nominating Massachusetts liberals before (Dukakis, Kerry), and it never works. And if Warren were elected, she would be a disappointing president because she wouldn't be able to deliver on any of her promises. None of her bold ideas stands a chance of getting through Congress.

The ideal candidate would be someone with Biden's charisma and wide appeal, but 20 or 30 years younger. Unfortunately, that candidate doesn't exist. I had hoped that Beto would fit the bill, but he's turned out to be a real disappointment. Beto is comfortable at home in Texas (like he was this week after the El Paso shootings), but he seems ill at ease on the national stage. During the debates, he was like the student who hadn't done the reading and was nervous when the teacher called on him.

R271- All well said.

I was going to mention how much I liked Beto and I am so surprised at how much of a disappointment that turned out to be

Oh, her emails again. Yawn.

Still happy you didn't vote for her because of a server?

[QUOTE] Best democratic nominee- Warren- BY A FUCKING MILE

I agree, but she's 71, white woman and lied about something, however irrelevant the lie was. That means that voters will subconsciously drop her into the same mental slot as Hillary.

R274- 100% agreed. And its a shame.

But we have to get this guy out of office-

So at this point, it is Biden. I would LOVE to see Liz as the VP candidate-

No one has posted that he or she will sit it out or will vote third party if Biden is the nominee, r268. That’s why I tune out people like you.

[quote] No one has posted that he or she

Or "they"

R273, wrong. I happily voted for her even though my vote is in a deep red state so it never counts. And, R270, exactly who YOU believe is responsible for HRC having a private e-mail server? Was she forced in to that by someone else? It was stupid and gave an opening for her opponent to use it against her. I don't even care what was on the stupid e-mails; I care that she made a bone-headed move that contributed to the mess we are in now.

[quote]Wasn't Hillary with a similar lead around the same time???

Your'e missing the most important point: Hillary was the most disliked Democratic nominee in history. Republicans, and many Independents, thought she was Satan in a pantsuit. Trump was unpopular, too, but an unpopular man always beats an unpopular woman. That's why she lost.

Biden is universally beloved, even by most Republicans. The only people who don't love him are the far left wing of the Democratic party.

Gaffes only hurt you if they are damaging to your brand. Everybody knows that Biden isn't racist, so this sort of gaffe is meaningless.

You cunts are ridiculous. With the exception of the sparkle pony, any of the Dem candidates would be a fine and needed antidote to Trump.

R280- THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!!! (And I agree with you) BUT THE NOMINEE HAS TO WIN OVER TRUMP????

Wake the fuck up- THAT Is the problem- Are any of the democratic nominees strong enough to beat this guy?

The sad truth is , I think Biden's senile racial "slip" may actually get us some Trump voters!!!!

I've been saying this for weeks. Joe Biden is no longer sharp enough to effectively run and govern the way this country needs him to. I love him, but it IS time to pass the torch.

Biden is universally beloved

There is a huge difference between being universally beloved, and an amiably tolerated harmless idiot..

[quote]Are any of the democratic nominees strong enough to beat this guy?

Actually, yes, all of them are, based on the available data. In the head-to-head matchups, Trump's numbers are remarkably consistent, in the low 40s. The difference between the various Democratic candidates is the number of undecided voters. For someone like Biden, whom everyone knows, the number of undecided voters is small, so his lead over Trump is pretty significant. The leads get smaller as you make your way through the candidates in order of name recognition, from Biden to Sanders to Warren, and so on.

Every single major Democratic candidate absolutely [italic]can[/italic] beat Trump, as the majority of voters in just about ever major poll do not want to see him reelected. He needs an additional 6 to 10% of the electorate, minimum, and, right now, anyway, there are no signs that he's getting that. That is not to say that this will be a cakewalk, that Democrats are guaranteed to win, or anything foolish like that but, right now, Trump is in serious trouble and his campaign knows it.

It's because he's in trouble that his campaign is going full-bore racist. They're hoping the combination of fear, racism, "stick it to the libs" will motivate their base to turn out. Throw in some voter suppression in a few key states and they think that is their path to victory. The trouble is that it's the same tactic they tried in 2018 and it didn't work then, so there is little reason to believe it will work in 2020. Still, that's all he's got, at least for now.

So yes, every single major Democratic candidate can beat Trump.

R284. I think you are fucking DELUDED. Were you alive in 2016?????

However, I love you for being so confident when I have no confidence left.

I pray that you are right! And I am so wrong.

And I just WW'ed R 284.

Because he gave me hope.

But I learned my lesson 3 years ago-

Whoops .

[quote] NEW: Joe Biden said he was vice president when the deadly high school shooting in Parkland, Florida, took place. Except, it happened in 2018, two years after he left office -- the latest gaffe by the Democratic presidential front-runner.

Thanks R287.

I just lost my 10 inch hard on for R284.

Jesus, you take the wheel, Chile!!!

R285, you're welcome to think what you like about my delusions but that is what the available data show. And it's absolutely true about the Trump campaign and their decision to go all in on racism because they don't have anything else.

When you have the major national polls all showing that over 50% of voters do not want to see Trump reelected, when you see the inroads that the Democrats made in the suburbs in 2018 (actual election results, mind you, not polls), when you see Trump losing white women and college-educated men and women, when you see the determination on the part of the electorate to "throw the bum out," when you see this coupled with record-breaking turnout and a blue wave in 2018, when you see the results of the off-cycle elections since 2016, when you see the polls and election results in a few of the key states that Trump absolutely must have to win (e.g., Pennsylvania), then hope is definitely the right attitude to have.

Again, this is not to say that the election is a done deal. I'm not that foolish and a lot can happen between now and the election, but right now, if I were a betting man, I'd bet on Trump going down to defeat.

And, before anyone else goes there, yes, I know about the polls in 2016. The national polls were largely correct. And even a sizable majority of the state polls were correct, as well. The pollsters got it wrong in a few key states, mostly because their "likely voter" models were a bit off. Even when they got it wrong, in all but one state, the error was within the margin of error for the polls.

And, above all else, Trump remains Trump, which means that he's going to continue to shit all over his own election chances, whether it's ill-advised trade wars bringing the stock market down or ridiculous responses to national tragedies or spewing racist drivel that turns off the middle-of-the-road voters he desperately needs, he continues to be his own worst enemy. And this time around, nobody can or will rein him in, as they managed to do in 2016, so expect this kind of behavior all the way through to the election.

R289, you’re a lot more confident than I am dudec

You're welcome to believe what you like but everything I wrote was true. And keep in mind that despair is what Republicans desperately need for a victory in 2020. They need Democrats to believe it's hopeless and stay home, which will then become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Nate Cohn: @danpfeiffer If you want to know how a Democrat can win, I would say that you can't use Trump '16 as the baseline because we plainly know there are more people who like Trump today than before, many of whom did not vote and could vote in 2020

R289. I adore you and your clear intelligence.

I wasn't trying to fight with you. I would hug you if I could and would PRAY that you are correct.

I love your use of facts.. I just feel like 2016 had these "facts" as well- and we all were burned.

Again, you brought me some comfort. I pray that you are BEYOND right.

R292 just made my huge erect penis an innie. It is so far inside me that I truly don't even have a vagina. But a big old nothing. I am pussy less. Inverted to the point of non existence.

[quote] Every single major Democratic candidate absolutely can beat Trump, as the majority of voters in just about ever major poll do not want to see him reelected.

This is true. But keep in mind that the Republicans have a shitload of money, far more than they had in 2016, and will unleash a steady stream of negative ads designed to make the Democratic nominee look crazy, extremist, and dangerous. Those ads will play nonstop during the general election in an effort to scare Republicans into voting and discourage Democrats from voting. The Republicans have always been brutally effective at using negative ads. Dukakis could have beaten Bush Sr. in 1988 (he was leading him by double digits at one point), but he was killed by the Willie Horton and "tank" ads. Kerry could have beaten Bush Jr. in 2004, but he was killed by the Swiftboat ads.

I'm not convinced that "every single major Democratic candidate" in 2016 can withstand that kind of assault and respond in kind. It takes a certain skill that goes above and beyond having good policy ideas or a good personality. One of Biden's strengths is that he's been through several presidential campaigns and endured 8 years of nonstop attacks on Obama. He has more experience in dealing with GOP attacks than most of the others.

The electoral college will fuck us again.

R296. STOP!!!

[quote] I'm not convinced that "every single major Democratic candidate" in 2016 ...

Obviously, I meant to say "every single major Democratic candidate" in 2020.

I think Trump will won a higher share of the white, rural, southern, and evangelical vote in 2020 than he did in 2016.

Another Bidenism, today in Iowa:

[quote]“I watched what happened when those kids form Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president,” Biden says. "Some of you covered it.”

[quote]The Parkland shootings occurred in 2018, a year after he left the vice presidency.

And here, in the same speech:

[quote]Biden on his gaffe: "Look I misspoke I meant to say wealthy. I've said it 50 -- and on the spot, I explained it. At that very second I explained it. And so the fact of the matter is that I don't think anybody thinks that I meant anything other than what I said I meant."

More:

[quote]“I hadn’t noticed!” Biden jokes of Dem divisions. "I hope you'll see more and more discussion about the future, about what we all are proposing. Rather than going back and taking out of context a statement that was made 2, 10, 20, 30, 35, 40 years ago without knowing the context”

[quote]Nate Cohn: @danpfeiffer If you want to know how a Democrat can win, I would say that you can't use Trump '16 as the baseline because we plainly know there are more people who like Trump today than before, many of whom did not vote and could vote in 2020

That does not appear to be correct. Cohn isn't taking into account the *loss* of those suburban Trump voters.

[quote]This is true. But keep in mind that the Republicans have a shitload of money, far more than they had in 2016

So do Democrats. The money advantage wasn't in favor of Republicans in 2018 and I'm not sure it will be all that much in their favor in 2020. Certainly, the incumbent House Democrats, even those in seats where they ousted a Republican in 2018, appear to be outraising their competition.

And even with that Republican money, the number of people who *really* don't like Trump and who will not be swayed by any amount of advertising is enormous, more so than any other Presidential candidate in modern history.

[quote]I'm not convinced that "every single major Democratic candidate" in 2016 can withstand that kind of assault and respond in kind.

I was very careful to say that they [italic]can[/italic] win, not that they necessarily would. They're starting from a position of strength, which is why Trump's only road to victory is to tear them down, as you correctly note. We'll find out over the course of this primary how well they respond to negative attacks.

Biden is something of a gaffe machine, something that I think we all know. Personally, I think this is being overblown and it won't hurt him very much, mostly because people already know this about Biden and they've baked this into their support for him. Just as the earlier "#metoo" attacks never took hold on him because everyone already knew that "Uncle Joe" was very touchy-feely but didn't mean any harm in it. I suspect (but don't yet have the data to prove this) that these new attacks won't really stick, either.

The bottom line is that we have a long way to go and unless you have a real love for a candidate's qualifications and positions and political skill, I think it's fine to sit on the sidelines a bit, perhaps donate a bit of time and money to your favorites, and see how this plays out a bit before settling on your final choice.

In the meantime I will continue to push back pretty hard on anyone who insists that only their candidate of choice can defeat Trump because that's just not what the data show.

Question is... why are we settling for a gaffe machine? Is the Dem field really THAT bad in people's eyes? Is everyone that terrified of Trump? Do they think Biden will stop being himself and suddenly start channeling Obama's spirit during the general election, ectoplasm and all?

Why settle?

Wall street wants it to be Biden because they want 4 more years of Trump. Biden can barely speak publicly. Wall street knows their their strategy to get trump into the WH. They are also manipulating Americans in those polls. We have to look out who wall street does not want to run: Bernie and Elizabeth. They have already been hit hard by smear campaigns and are still standing.

My mother is a few years younger than Warren. She's been retired for a decade already. Can we get some candidates who are not eligible for a senior living home?

Though poor kids are smarter than Joe Biden. Maybe they should run for President?

I fear that 2020 could be another shock, and the polls could be wrong again. After 2016, I'm very nervous.

R309, pay attention to the off-cycle elections, like those this November. Also, pay attention to where the money is flowing and how Democratic Senate and House candidates are doing against the competition. Both of these were pretty clear indicators in 2018, well before the election, that 2018 was going to go well.

Trust, but verify.

Hate to say it, but we need someone that is able to keep up with Trump on the campaign trail. Remember when Trump was all over the place and Hillary was taking time off? Then all of a sudden they started rumors that she was sick, etc. I'm sticking with Elizabeth. She can take on Trump and explain in very simple terms why the middle class and poor are not better off under Trump. She can get ahead of Trump's narrative. She stays focused on her plans, getting her message out and doesn't get in shouting matches. She doesn't have the "it" factor like Obama, but none of the candidates have it. The key for her winning will people her pick of VP and I'm not sure any of the candidates running would be a good pick.

How do the Democrats secure this election? Bernie and Warren get the millenial voters, you need them to do all the grasssroots and networking that the young do . You do need smart millennial passionate about their candidate to win. We need some swing and independent voters to come back. this would be Bernie Sanders right? They like him.

Though, we also need the African-American vote HIGH. I think we need Oprah as the VP pick.

This is: Bernie, Elizabeth or Biden for President to be chosen by the primary. The people who show up to the polls to vote in the primary.

Oprah as the VP pick.

This is the winning ticket.

So true

Not Oprah.

R311 Any of the candidates under 60 can "keep up with Trump".

The opposing party commonly wins in the mid-terms, it's not an indication that the opposing party will win the presidency in another two years.

DNC would love the VP pick to be a person of color who has been an elected official. None of them are polling high enough. Because of this it has to be Oprah. Someone famous who can take on Trump Oprah can take on Trump. Low information voters love her too.

R309. Ditto. We are in a new world. and if people could just wake up- We could beat this, but I hear we are into 2024.

I doubt Oprah would want to be bothered.

Okay, cunts- You have now verified something my gut has been tellling me. We need a transcendent, insane, out of this world VP nomination.... That has been my feeling. And I think it the VP nominee was OUT OF THIS WORLD, it COULD potentially, take us over the top (and it will be be BARELY- trust me- we live in a nation of racists, idiots, and doofuses more than anyone wants to admit or accept)

Warren just ended her campaign by coming out with a plan to tax ammunition by 50%! Is she nuts? She would lose the Midwest in a landslide to Trump if she was our nominee.

Bad idea

R316, the opposing party doesn't always get a wave election, which 2018 was. In any case, it's not just the 2018 election. It's that election, plus the off-cycle elections, plus the money, plus the polling, plus the actions and admissions of the Trump campaign. All of them point to the same conclusion: that Trump is in perhaps the weakest reelection position we've seen in decades. I repeat: that does not mean he will lose; just that he's not starting from a good place.

R317, that's simply nonsense. Oprah isn't running and there are no signs that, if she did, that she'd want the VP position. Moreover, you don't poll the VP candidate against Trump; you poll the presidential candidate against Trump. And it won't be the DNC who will choose the VP candidate; it will be the Democratic nominee. Finally, there are, of course, several qualified women of color who have been or are elected officials who poll reasonably well. Basically, none of what you wrote was true.

R318, sorry, but that's a stupid statement to make at this time. The diehard gun fanatics that such a tax would hit are already also diehard Trump fanatics. Instead of predicting doom and gloom on the basis of one single element in a larger plan, it would behoove you to wait to see what the overall reaction that plan is before you start declaring the election over.

[quote] Biden can barely speak publicly.

Oh, please. I can't believe all the trolls in this thread. The speech Biden gave this week on white supremacy and Trump's rhetoric was fantastic. None of the other candidates (except possibly Beto) even came close. Or did you ever see the speech about grief that Biden gave to families of fallen soldiers? How about the speech that he gave during the 2016 Democratic convention (which was far superior to Hillary's speech)? Biden is a great public speaker. It's one of his strengths. People are willing to forgive him for an occasional slip of the tongue because they know that he speaks passionately, authentically and from the heart. That's one the reasons why he polls much better in swing states than most of the other Democrats.

Biden may pick Bernie as VP to unite the party.

[quote] the opposing party doesn't always get a wave election, which 2018 was

Speaking of wave elections:

2010 .... Republicans picked up seven Senate seats (including a special election held in January 2010) but failed to gain a majority in the chamber. In the House of Representatives, Republicans won a net gain of 63 seats, the largest shift in seats since the 1948 elections. In state elections, Republicans won a net gain of six gubernatorial seats and flipped control of twenty state legislative chambers

And Obama easily won 2012.

[quote]The speech Biden gave this week on white supremacy and Trump's rhetoric was fantastic

Yes it was and I was very encouraged by it, but now he’s back to the old gaffe-o-matic Joe, sounding addled and garbled. He’s still my first choice but damn, he has to do better.

Another day, another big gaffe.

Today, in Iowa, he talked about the Parkland kids "coming up to see (him)" when he was Vice President. The only thing is, the Parkland shooting happened in February, 2018, more than a year after he left office.

People, he isn't fit to serve. His day is past and you're crazy if you think voters will just ignore it all.

If he shits himself, it's over.

Good. The more he makes, the more desensitized we’ll become. Just like Trump. I hope he starts making a gaffe everyday.

If Biden is gaffing so much now, imagine what he'll be saying in a year when campaign season is in full swing, he's exhausted from travel and public speaking, and he has to deal with constant incoming attacks and diversions from the Orange Cheeto and his minions.

Biden, PLEASE DO NOT MAKE IN YOUR OLD MAN PANTIES!!!!

If you doo, it is OVER!!!!

R330, you're confusing Democratic voters with deplorable Republican voters. What works for idiots won't work for Democrats.

Obama made gaffes all the time and Dems got used to it.

Tone deaf posters think that Oprah's popular with voters of any race. She's hated on LSA.

Would have been a little different if she was at the height of her ABC-TV show, before she started pushing New Age (read ant-Christian, anti-Catholic, anti-MSM religion) New Agers. How many of her previous viewers followed her to OWN? How many saw the recent movie she pushed?

Aren't there any solid Black women politicians besides Stacy Abrams?

Biden’s rapidly disintegrating mental faculties will make his VP choice impactful to voters. He could lose the general just by picking a loon as VP.

[quote]And Obama easily won 2012.

Yes, we know, R326. And if Trump were anything like Obama, you might have a point. Sadly for Trump and for the Republican Party (and for us should he win), Trump remains Trump.

If you concede "Biden’s rapidly disintegrating mental faculties", why would you think any VP would drag him across the finish line

The sad thing is that Biden wanted to run in 2016 but Obama talked him out of it. Obama wanted Hillary to be the nominee.

Because he’s the only one who can beat Trump!, r338. So VP will need careful vetting because he or she will be running things along with the COS and Cabinet. Joe can give rousing and inspiring speeches about our higher natures and the greater good but limit his access to the press to keep the gaffes to a manageable two a month. He’s not a Tweeter so that’s a blessing.

[quote] Biden wanted to run in 2016 but Obama talked him out of it. Obama wanted Hillary to be the nominee.

And Hillary wanted Trump to be the republican nominee. Funny how one thing leads to another.

Voters have seen over the past 3 years that the president doesn't really run the country anyway. He's just a figurehead. That's why they don't care if Biden is too old.

[quote] Biden wanted to run in 2016 but Obama talked him out of it. Obama wanted Hillary to be the nominee.

True about Biden, but it's a stretch to say Obama "wanted" Hillary. He just figured she would have better chance as the nominee.

[quote]it's a stretch to say Obama "wanted" Hillary.

No it’s not. There was an article in the NYT about it. Biden wanted to run but Obama talked him out of it because he wanted Hillary as the nominee (then of course she’d easily go on to win the presidency.) I wish I had saved the article. It was a few weeks ago.

Jesus Christ, R340, he is NOT the only one who can beat Trump!!! That's just a trope that people are grabbing on to because it gets repeated over and over because of the polls 16 months before the election. Most people aren't even paying attention yet. Stop and think what you are writing: you truly believe that there is only one person in the United States who can beat DONALD TRUMP?! Where have you been for the last three years? If Joe Biden is our only hope, we might as well just go ahead and hope that a meteor hits the Earth right now.

Running Biden any longer is bordering on elder abuse.

[quote]Warren just ended her campaign by coming out with a plan to tax ammunition by 50%! Is she nuts?

Cigarette taxes are higher than that because they kill people. Why not tax ammunition? I want ammunition outlawed. Nothing in the 2nd amendment about the right to have ammunition. Let the fuckers make their own bullets.

[quote]I want ammunition outlawed. Nothing in the 2nd amendment about the right to have ammunition. Let the fuckers make their own bullets.

If any candidate had the balls to do that, I would vote for them in a second.

Uh, r345? You might want to look up the definition of facetious. Also snark and sarcasm. Chill, son. You’re gonna bust a gasket.

What actually happened, R344, is that Obama didn't think Biden could win based on what Obama's own team was saying. It's not that he didn't want Biden to run, it's that he wanted the strongest candidate to run.

Obama wasn't the best judge of that kind of thing, however, since he told us directly that the problem was HRC didn't go to enough VFWs and fish fries, which we now know isn't the case. The election was stolen. He said our elections were secure and they weren't. Voting machines were online and the Russians hacked into the voter registration in every state. He also praised Comey after the Comey letter incident even though it was a clear case of the FBI throwing the election. Obama was good at a lot of things, but really botched his own part in the 2016 election.

So I'm sure Biden is pissed at listening to Obama's advice, but at the same time, Biden's son had just died, and his other son was banging the widow (probably before Beau kicked it), plus the timing of his brain tumor meant he couldn't have won then. Maybe he can win now, who knows.

[quote] Obama wasn't the best judge of that kind of thing, however, since he told us directly that the problem was HRC didn't go to enough VFWs and fish fries, which we now know isn't the case. The election was stolen.

The two are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to believe that Russia tampered with the election AND that Hillary should have spent more time going to VFWs and fish fries. It's possible to believe that Russia tampered with the election AND that Hillary should have spent more time campaigning in states like Michigan and Wisconsin. It's possible to believe that Russia tampered with the election AND that Hillary ran a weak campaign and made poor tactical decisions. The fact that Russia tampered with the election doesn't automatically absolve Hillary's campaign of any and all responsibility for her electoral college loss.

Every campaign makes mistakes. Pretending like HRC's were fatal mistakes at this late date is ridiculous.

She didn't lose because she didn't go to VFWs and Wisconsin. Anyone still trying to sell us that line is either a troll or delusional. All signs point to Obama simply not knowing and not being informed properly by IC of how bad the hacking was, but we know now, and it's irresponsible to pretend she lost the election because she, like, sucks so bad, you guys.

Certain people want to obsess over Wisconsin and not the fact that Russia hacked all 50 states, that the FBI interfered with the election, and that our voting machines are online and insecure. I mean, go ahead if you want, but when the 2020 election is stolen you won't be able to claim it was all Hillary's fault, and then what will you do? Focus on another smaller, lesser issue instead of the enormous problems that actually made a difference, I guess.

R251 Who's LYING and FEAR mongering--besides our current president?

Get all indignant and vote for whoever has no chance in hell of winning. I'm just being realistic. I would LOVE to vote for Sanders, Harris or even Beto, but none of them stand a chance, and I'm not throwing my vote away. They say this EVERY year, but THIS election is TOO important. Do you. I'll do me.

BTW, who besides Biden could beat Trump?

The problem is that Trump’s childish caricatures and lampooning of opponents using stick and wound the opponent. People may roll eyes and laugh when he calls people names, but eventually people start repeating the insult. Sleepy Joe is not the worst insult, but they will use it to say Joe is slow, mentally impaired, out of it. Every candidate makes gaffes, but Joe’s will be portrayed as more evidence to fuel this narrative. He and his team have to be sharp to defeat this fledging narrative

Wait...who the FUCK is Andrew Yang?

[QUOTE] I would LOVE to see Liz as the VP candidate-

Huh? Liz Cheney?

[quote]'m just being realistic.

No, you're not.

[quote]I would LOVE to vote for Sanders, Harris or even Beto, but none of them stand a chance

This is simply false and it has been repeatedly debunked, over and over again. Just stop, as all you're doing is making yourself look foolish.

[quote]BTW, who besides Biden could beat Trump?

All of them. See r284.

Here's a memory refresher to put these ridiculously early polling numbers in perspective:

"Iowa Poll, Dec. 2003

Dean 26 Gephardt 22 Kerry 9 Edwards 5

Iowa Results, Jan. 2004

Kerry 38 Edwards 32 Dean 18 Gephardt 11

Kerry and Edwards both surged nearly 30 points in Iowa in ONE MONTH before the caucus.

Anyone predicting results using polls 8 months out is clueless."

R350 I follow the author of that Atlantic article on Twitter. He’s almost obsessive in how he documents every single gaffe that Biden makes. He has a hate boner for Joe for some reason.

When others drop out it will be interesting to see who they support and who their supporters migrate to.

Bingo, R362. A few of the polls have asked about second choices; a couple have even asked "if electability were not a concern, who do you *really* want to win."

And, R363...... who did they pick?

That poll mentioned above with Kerry, Edwards, and Dean could be taken as a warning. The media took out Dean by playing up the "Dean Scream" that never actually happened. Then, people went to the loser, Kerry. And, Edwards was a scandalous asshole who the media gave a complete pass to due to having coifed hair and an accent.

We need to stop letting the media choose the candidates. They gave us Kerry then. They gave us Trump. They are killing the country for ratings.

I'm trying to dig that up, r364. I didn't save those, since it's still so early in the race. I do know that Biden drops a bit, which should come as no surprise. FiveThirtyEight had an article that lists a couple of polls that asked about electability and choice. This was back in April.

Here's an article from July about second choices, citing three polls.

R367, one of the sad things about those polls is how much people who like one white man stick with other white men as their second choice even when those two white men have almost nothing else in common. How do you go from centrist, establishment Biden to far left socialist-light Sanders as your second choice unless you're looking at only one thing?

Agreed, R368. There should be no one who has Biden first and Bernie second or vice versa. If it isn't "old white man" syndrome, at the very least it is ignorance of knowing anything about the candidates and only making a decision based on, "Oh, I've heard of that name."

Rassmussen poll from this week in 2007:

Hillary Clinton 40%, Barack Obama 25%, John Edwards 13%, Bill Richardson 4%, Joe Biden 2%, Dennis Kucinich 2%, Chris Dodd 1%, Mike Gravel 1%

[quote] The media took out Dean by playing up the "Dean Scream" that never actually happened.

Is CNN posting fake videos?

Biden and Sanders are the most popular second choices, which means that as the marginal candidates drop out, it probably won't shake things up very much. In fact, it may increase Biden's lead.

Interestingly, the most popular second choice of Sanders voters is Biden, not Warren.

[quote] Among Sanders's supporters, 26 percent said they supported Biden as a second choice, followed by Warren at 16 percent and Harris at 7 percent.

[quote] Rassmussen poll from this week in 2007: Hillary Clinton 40%, Barack Obama 25%, John Edwards 13%, Bill Richardson 4%, Joe Biden 2%, Dennis Kucinich 2%, Chris Dodd 1%, Mike Gravel 1%

While it's true that the winner in polls at this stage of the race often doesn't become the nominee, it's pretty rare for someone who's polling in 4th, 5th, 6th, etc., place to become the nominee. You'll notice that in this poll from 2007, Hillary was in first place, but Obama was solidly in 2nd, with a healthy 25%. You didn't see people like Richardson, Kucinich, or Dodd go on to become competitive candidates in 2008, and similarly, it's unlikely that the current batch of candidates who are polling at 1% or 2% will suddenly become competitive.

Obama was able to change the dynamics of the race in 2008 with his win (and powerful speech) in Iowa. It's possible that someone like Harris or Buttigieg (or maybe O'Rourke or Klobuchar) could shake things up with an unexpected victory in Iowa or New Hampshire. But barring something dramatic in one of the early states, this is shaping up to be a three-way race between Biden, Warren, and Sanders.

Yes, R371, the videos isolated the audio and dampened the ambient noise.

[QUOTE] The media took out Dean by playing up the "Dean Scream"

You are exaggerating this in your memory. Dean's campaign had already been cut off at the knees before his most entertaining scream. He had finished THIRD that night which was why he was trying to pep up his crowd.

When Dean's campaign began to gain steam Clinton loyalist Wesley Clark was brought in to disrupt his momentum. He split Dean's support allowing the certain loser Kerry to take the prize.

2008 would be Hillary's sure thing, but she didn't expect Obama would refuse to stand aside for her..

Nice rewriting of history with a final, unrelated hit on Hillary thrown in for fun, troll at R375.

[quote]This is simply false and it has been repeatedly debunked, over and over again. Just stop, as all you're doing is making yourself look foolish.

Jesus, this is an anonymous message board, shithead. Why would I be concerned that you think I’m being foolish?

Exactly, how and where has this been repeatedly debunked? Just as previous posters said people vote based on familiarity. Unlike YOU, a large number of voters--especially the ones who didn’t vote in the last election, the ones we really NEED--aren’t sitting in front of their laptops with their dicks in their hands reading up on each candidate. It’s enough for the lazy FUCKS just to get to the ballots.

I will NEVER understand why people continue to give the masses credit for something that they’re not.

[quote]sitting in front of their laptops with their dicks in their hands reading up on each candidate

Pics please.

Biden should just apologize.

If Biden apologized for every one of his embarassing gaffes, his entire life would be one misstep forward, one step back.

You are welcome to do anything you like, R377. That post was simply to inform you that what you wrote was so monumentally stupid, so woefully ill-informed, that it discredited everything you have written, destroyed any pretense you might have of being someone to take seriously. What you do with that information is entirely up to you.

Your follow-up "analysis" was simply more of the same: monumentally stupid and woefully ill-informed. I see no reason to pretend otherwise, nor to take it seriously enough to debunk the stupidity. It is self-discrediting.

r381 you forgot to include your picture with your post....

What amazingly stupid thing did Biden say this week?

Well, R383, he keeps saying he wants to be president. I think that's pretty stupid.

What is Biden going to do if the Orange campaign places TV adds showing him touching young girls?

What if Orange tried to tie him to Epstein?

How will Biden counter such attacks?

Probably by ignoring them, R385, or laughing at them. And laughing all the way to victory should the Trump campaign be that stupid.

You're kidding, right, R386? Never underestimate the stupidity and gullibility of the American public. Have the past three years taught you nothing?

I'm not at all kidding. People know this about Biden; it's his shtick. Some of the Bernie Bros tried this shit earlier this year and it went absolutely nowhere. It's not going to go anywhere under Trump, either, particularly with his own behavior, his own words, and his own ties to Epstein.

There are attacks that will work against Biden; this isn't one of them.

Okay, R388. I guess we'll see. Although I still don't think Biden will be the nominee anyway.

R388, 24/7 Repug attack machine stating the exact same thing over and over for months on every network they can get on is actually a very powerful propaganda mechanism. I wish the Dems could figure out how to do it as well as the fucking Repugs do.

He said that he respects the other “team”. Meaning the Republicans That they are DECENT people who ran because they care about things but they are all intimidated right now. Which is why they don’t speak out. Or something like that. He’s a fucking moron. If he’s the nominee we are doomed if he loses and doomed if he wins. And yet the sour-faced hags who are on every politico show claim that Elizabeth Warren is unlikable and unelectable. UNLIKABLE. Sound familiar? There is one in particular, she wears hot pink power suits and dies her hair lemon yellow, said this AFTER she said that Warren is gaining enthusiasm among young voters and her poll numbers keep going up. Fuck you, Elle Woods wannabe. Right up that fake nose.

Yeah, I get that, R390, but that only works when the target audience doesn't already know the character well, as they do in Biden's case. If they do resort to something like that, Biden can laugh it off, point out just how bankrupt Republicans are that they can't run on their achievements and talk issues, and pivot to health care.

Furthermore, devoting endless hours to this non-issue will end up coming across as incredibly creepy. I repeat: There are attacks that will work against Biden; this isn't one of them.

[quote] There is one in particular, she wears hot pink power suits and dies her hair lemon yellow

Who?

Pete Buttigieg, Tim Ryan, Michael Bennet, Steven Bullock, Amy Klobuchar, and James Inslee, sound like pragmatic, moderate Democrats. They appeal to me over Bernie Sanders and the panderers.

Joe Biden does not concern me on policy issues. He has the most qualifying experience. But his age-related cognitive steadiness could become a growing issue. We'll see how he handles future debates, interviews, and the campaign trail.

I am most impressed with Pete Buttigieg's intellect and quick sharpness. Tim Ryan is growing on me. He can relate to blue collar voters, particularly in the midwest. Trump won't intimidate him. He'll take the offensive, and won't be rattled by Pocahontas-type shit Bone Spurs flings at opponents.

[quote] Pete Buttigieg, Tim Ryan, Michael Bennet, Steven Bullock, Amy Klobuchar, and James Inslee, sound like pragmatic, moderate Democrats.

Many of the people you've listed might make fine presidents. But when there are 20 or more candidates in the running, it's almost impossible for any of them to have a "breakout" moment and gain any traction. And the debates don't help because each candidate is limited to 1-minute answers, which doesn't give them much of a chance to connect with the audience. So the media and the public end up only concentrating on the "big names." It seems that the media have already decided that this is a 4-way race between Biden, Warren, Sanders, and Harris. I know that it's still early, and things could change, but it's hard to envision any scenario that would suddenly catapult someone like Ryan or Bennet or Inslee to the same stature as Biden or Warren.

R392, Biden didn't handle this well a few months back when it first came up. He was lucky that the media let it go after about a week. He fumbled through responses. He ended up saying something stupid while introducing people onstage during it and joking about being allowed to touch someone. It was in front of some audience of white guys. Firefighters union, maybe? You might think it all went away but women do not like this about him. This on top of the Anita Hill stuff is not going to play well to women voters, especially the ones who might be thinking about switching from Repug to Dem this time around.

Why are we (Dems/independents) who want to vote democratic, why are we following Fox polls as if they are gospel? What...Faux Newx can be fair now? You think so? Just this one instance because it is only the most important Presidential election in our lifetime.

The Repugs want Biden to be the Dem nominee because he has a lot on his history they can attack. Plus, he has zero appeal to younger voters because he's an old geezer who shows strong signs of senility. Just watch as he slips up so much it will be a running joke on late nite TV.

Mind you, if he is the front runner, he can only win the election based on WHO he picks as his VP. If he selects a 'Tim Kaine' like Hillary, he'll sink like a stone. Do we really want a candidate who is "safe" in name and familiarity only? Want to throw the dice again this time again. I think it's time for a bold choice.

I think Warren is FDR part two.

Interesting that R394 names ONLY white candidates.

Is it really interesting to you, R399? If so, why don't you explain your conclusions.

If you have not concluded anything from from R394's post, then perhaps your own is premature.

Say what you want to say. But don't just vaguely slime people and then slither away.

The political map has slid so far to the right that I am confident that 30 to 40 years ago Biden would have been a perfectly viable Republican candidate. And I'm afraid the old man is so hell bent on reuniting the country that he would have no qualm pardoning Trump for everything wrong he did to the country. At the same time the goal is to get rid of the traitor, and he's clearly the least repellent candidate for the independents and the Never-Trumpists so I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Given the circumstances, Biden is both my favorite and my least favorite candidate. Anyone feels the same?

[quote] And I'm afraid the old man is so hell bent on reuniting the country that he would have no qualm pardoning Trump for everything wrong he did to the country.

I feel the same about that. Biden would do that in a heartbeat. What is required is a de-Nazification of the GOP and the government. Not comity. Not Kumbaya.

I don't agree about Biden the least repellant candidate for the independents, etc. It's just too early in the process to make that determination. Let them have their debates. Let them be scrutinized by the media and the populace. Let the process happen. Then decide.

I also agree that it's definitely too early in the process. That is just my sense of it at this "intermediate time" so to say. Time will tell.

Elle Wannabe Woods was on Hallie Jackson’s show today. Her name is A.B. Stoddard. Wearing hot pink and hair that needs a good washing. She just rehashes the same line about Warren and the radical left hijacking the party. She must be on MSNBC’s payroll because she’s on every show. Big Hillary supporter apparently. And now Biden’s. She’s using the same rhetoric to sabotage Warren that the right used against Clinton. Fuck these harpies. We have another year of this. No one can predict what is going to happen so far in advance.

[quote]Why are we (Dems/independents) who want to vote democratic, why are we following Fox polls as if they are gospel? What...Faux Newx can be fair now? You think so?

Fox News fair? No. The Fox poll? Yes, we do think so. The Fox poll is not affiliated with Fox News in any way. It is run by two respected polling organizations: one Democratic and one Republican. It has an "A" rating among pollsters and has held up well in past polling results.

How much of his brain was taken out?

Wow.

F&F the troll who has nothing better to do than necro things like this from ten months ago, when trump says worse things twenty times a day.