THEATRE GOSSIP #364 - Faye Done Away With Edition

Why did you start this after only 500 posts on the previous thread?

Because, invariably, someone else was going to do it wrong and not link to previous thread.

[italic]I throw piss in your disgruntled face![italic]

It's attitude like yours, R2, that got Miss Dunaway done away with. Your time will come.

You're a fucking asshole, OP. This thread should be F&F'd because you had the temerity to start it 100 posts early just so no one else will.

Fuck you.

The other thread is mostly on lockdown. I think OP was right and did what he had to do.

Is Mrs Uranowitz hanging around the theatre a lot?

I love multiple theatre threads!

There is nothing wrong with the other thread, r5, if it's on "lockdown" for you (what does that even mean?) the problem is you, not the thread.

Let's talk shit about #363!

[Quote] There is nothing wrong with the other thread

It's crawling along at a snail's pace. There's maybe two people posting on it. "Lockdown" = Restricted. Do you understand that word?

No one has to post in this thread until the time comes. IMHO, it's good to have one ready in the wings, so later there aren't multiple continuation threads with the wrong number, no previous links, etc.

Dana Delaney tweeted: I have briefly worked with Ms. Dunaway. She was and is a sensitive & formidable talent. Let’s be kind.

Ben Mankiewicz then responded: So Dana is right. Faye is a sensitive soul who has a terribly tough time figuring out when people are trying to help her...when they’re on her side. We ought to be kind. To her. To each other.

Then Delaney answered another tweet that accused Faye of white privilege she repsonded:

When someone tweeted to Delaney that it was white privilege on Dunaway's part she tweeted: It has nothing to do with privilege. It’s chemical imbalance. Don’t judge.

Maybe this will make Faye admit to her chemical imbalance ( a secret for years in the industry) and come out and talk about the struggles of those with mental health issues. It's her only way to redemption.

I DON'T NEED ANY FUCKING REDEMPTION!

Now that Patty Duke is dead, there is an opening for a certified film star to make the rounds of professional conferences and talk shows being the Face of Mental Illness (TM.)

If this can happen to Faye Dunaway, it can happen to YOU. It's good to collect a fee, no matter its source.

I have to post in this one because the last one (which I created by the way) was locked to all but paying customers.

Anyhoo, in the last thread someone said this about Little Shop of Horrors and I agree with it. The original Little Shop was so well done. It's really a show that belongs in a small theater where the audience can be close to the action onstage.

[quote]Some of the magic of the original production was due to its atmosphere. There was something about being at the ramshackle Orpheum Theatre in the East Village in the early 80s that was sort of perfect, and it can't really be captured again. The problem for me is that I haven't seen a production yet to top what Howard Ashman did in his direction of the original. It somehow navigated a place between outright camp and playing the stakes for real.

Agreed. I'm glad someone started a new thread. The reason it was crawling along at a snails pace is that it was inaccessible to everyone except paying customers. I say we abandon it or it will take another month to fill up.

For some reason, I can't post to the other thread, so will just say I saw Moulin Rouge on Monday - what a beautiful production of an awful show. Perfect for phone obsessed millennials with short attention spans. Every song featured was done much better by the original artist.

This thread reeks of desperation and poorness. Pay the 2 bucks you foul little poor pigs

TEAT AT FIVE was already cut down to a one act, right? How much more "refining" were they going to do? I think they were hoping they could become a "snob hit" by way of London.

[Quote] This thread reeks of desperation and poorness. Pay the 2 bucks you foul little poor pigs

You have no way with words.

[quote]I have to post in this one because the last one (which I created by the way) was locked to all but paying customers.

Can that even be done? And if so, why was it done? I didn't know individual threads could be "locked down," I thought whether or not non-paying customers can post only had to do with the time of day, whether it's "premium" time or not.

I noticed on the "Why Can't I Ignore Threads" Thread, someone mentioned that they make a point of singling out "Part N" threads. I don't know if they just mean "Ignore" or FF as well. Is Muriel locking down certain threads like that based on user "feedback"? The Connor Jessup "Part 7" thread has been locked down a long time now, whereas the thread with just his name (a newer thread, actually) is accessible.

What the fuck is Dataloung coming to when the Theatre Threads are being put on lockdown?

The Janet Jackson one was also behind a paywall, so I suppose there's one good thing to come out of it, since we got rid of Jabba.

"Only subscribers can post to this thread. Click Here to update your subscription information."

That appears at the bottom of the previous thread. It is locked away from all but the paying customers. So, if that thead is moving slowly, that tells you how few of you silly showmos actually coughed up the $18 to create content for Muriel.

Dupes.

Patti at Ravinia

Still at Ravinia some years ago

New recording for Pose from Follies

[quote]This thread reeks of desperation and poorness. Pay the 2 bucks you foul little poor pigs

DL should be paying me for all the excellent content I generate. My posts bring clicks!

[quote]It's attitude like yours, [R2], that got Miss Dunaway done away with. Your time will come

Dunaway is protesting losing her performance space, not my attitude.

Now get your ass off that Range Rover.

That Patti Whistle performance is quite Bette Midler in places.

I enjoy Murphy more.

[quote]r25 if that thead is moving slowly, that tells you how few of you silly showmos actually coughed up the $18 to create content for Muriel.

And all available at easy installments of just $1.50 a month!

I know we all have to set money aside for upcoming under eye surgeries, but - -

[Quote] Wow, what a looker you were

Said no one to Patti LuPone ever.

[quote]Wow, what a looker you were Said no one to Patti LuPone ever. —Carol B.

We all had to pretend that Patti was a beautiful silent film star in Sunset Boulevard. We're used to fantasy in our theater.

With one look, I'm the girl next door (to Dracula's house maybe)

Or the love that you hungered for (like bad Chinese food that runs right through you)

When I speak it's with my sole (the bottom of my shoe stomping on people)

I can play any role (except Sunset Boulevard and any role that requires nuance and introspection)

I’m too lazy to find and link them, but there are some glamour pics of young Patti out there where she was indeed a “looker.”

Here

From the Napoleon Dynamite collection.

Agreed with the above poster about how great Little Shop was in the East Village. It really was Skid-Row-adjacent back then. The show itself was funny and charming, until it wasn't anymore. Thank God, I got to see Ellen Greene as Audrey. And the scenic coup de theatre at the end made the entire audience jump and then laugh. Then it was back out on to St Marks Place at 10:30 at night. Yipes.

[quote]And the scenic coup de theatre at the end made the entire audience jump and then laugh.

I regret not grabbing one of those things when that happened. But maybe that wasn't possible.

Is that Andrea Martin in the back? Who's the woman in the middle?

I still think the lyrics to MEMORY are schizophrenic. It's so oblique!

"Has the moon lost her memory? She is smiling alone." Grizabella is alone, and she hasn't lost her memory. Why does she think the moon has?

"I must think of a new life, and I mustn't give in" Does this mean cats have 9 lives, and she feels she's moving on to another one? Why not give in? That means she'll lose her memories? WTF

"If you tuch me you'll understand what happiness is." Someone in another thread said this means whoever touches Grizabella will make her so happy, they will see by her reaction what true happiness is. If so, isn't there a clearer way to say this??

It's like these lyrics are written by Pinter or something! The song's so foggy to me.

[Quote] "Has the moon lost her memory? She is smiling alone." Grizabella is alone, and she hasn't lost her memory. Why does she think the moon has?

The moon comes out at night. Griz lived her glory days at night. The moon no longer brings the good times (Has she forgotten to bring them?). I'm sure I don't need to explain how a crescent moon can look like a smile, nor how the moon can look solitary in the sky.

[Quote] I must think of a new life, and I mustn't give in

Give in to despair, perhaps? A new life away from the mean streets?

[Quote] If you tuch me you'll understand what happiness is.

Happiness is often gained through connection, though?

*Happiness is often gained through connection, no?

The first time I heard Memory, before I knew what the song was about, I imagined that Grizabella needed someone to touch her before the sun came up so that she could be reborn. And when she sang "Look, a new day has begun" she was lamenting the fact that she hadn't made it to the sunrise and she wouldn't be reborn.

[quote]r41 Is that Andrea Martin in the back? Who's the woman in the middle?

If that is from THE THREE SISTERS (1973 revival), then the other 2 women are Mary-Joan Negro as Masha and Mary Lou Rosato as Olga.

Don't know which is which, though.

Thanks. Rosato is the one that resembles Martin in that pic.

Chemical imbalance? Isn’t that the same thing as bipolar? Are they saying Faye is bipolar?

Negro, LuPone, Rosato.

Bipolar, schmipolar. Faye is still an inconsiderate, unprofessional cunt.

Look at Miss Crawford. Nobody was as mentally ill as she was, but she was a PRO, and showed up on time! Let's hear it for Joan!

Unfortunately, Crawford couldn't act.

But yes, very punctual.

Young Patti (at 26), looking slim and sexy in "The Baker's Wife."

Patti LuPone was never sexy!!

Pose

Yeah, she was, r56, in "The Baker's Wife." It took them several tries to settle on a wig design for her (much like the "Buenos Aries" wig from Evita), but she was slender, had great tits, and spent most of act two in a short slip.

R56 She’s been honest about it. She has said she was and is hard to sell to Hollywood because she looks Sicilian and that her face would have suited better to Europe. I think this is from her Broadway debut in 1976.

Listen up, kids. Cut it with the CATS nonsense.

NO ONE is going to pay $1.50 a month for a discussion of Andrew Lloyd Webber or CATS and Muriel has a business to run.

2nd time around.

Maybe Faye can get something out of nothing from this. Maybe an endorsement with Rexulti, the antipsychotic medication that's now advertised in commercials all the time, except it's advertised as being used as adjunct therapy for resistant depression. Which it is used for that purpose but I think Faye needs the stronger Bipolar dosage.

Patti in color from The Baker's Wife, with handsome Kurt Peterson. Supposedly they were fucking during this show.

This is more of Katherine. Kate looked like her.

Younger version in this pic isn’t bad either

Anyone saw this?

Oh dear, r66. Anyway, how was this Three Sisters?

[quote]2nd time around.

Even Betty Buckley comments. I guess Patti isn't as mad at her for doing Sunset Boulevard on Broadway as she is with that G woman.

Wasn't Faye also fired from Master Class?

Nothing kills a thread like Patti LuPone.

I think that's Patti and Kevin Kline from "The Robber Bridegroom" at Ravenna, r59.

That Pose artwork/vid didn't capitalise the P in LuPone. Another BETRAYAL!

Serving boy chest and FUPA. A star would not have signed off on this cover shot.

R67 What? She did it in 1982 and I simply tried to ask was she any good?

[Quote] What? She did it in 1982 and I simply tried to ask was she any good?

I presume the "Oh, dear" was due to "Saw" versus "See."

Young Faye

R75 Thanks. English isn’t my first language and I make mistakes. But I love theatre. Some people here don’t like it, but I can assure I write my first language perfectly.

[Quote] Thank God this thread isn't all about Patti.

The last post was two hours ago, dear.

[Quote] Thanks. English isn’t my first language and I make mistakes. But I love theatre. Some people here don’t like it, but I can assure I write my first language perfectly.

If someone's first impulse is to "Oh, dear!" a post, that says a lot about what they have to contribute. Still, point scoring is central to DL. Don't sweat it.

This thread reeks of poverty

That one was infamous, R67.

As it turns out, the other unfinished thread was better.

The thread is only as good as you make it. But of course, you'd rather sit back and pass judgment.

[quote]r62 Maybe Faye can get something out of nothing from this. Maybe an endorsement with Rexulti, the antipsychotic medication that's now advertised in commercials all the time,

If it can be applied as a fragrance, maybe she'd do it.

Before Gucci, before Norell, she hawked Thrill dish soap detergent:

I don’t know if Faye was fired from Master Class, but I do remember the night I saw her in it she made them hold the house from opening until 845 because she was happy with the lighting. She made them refocus while we waited outside in the cold.

We had to wait for hours in a non-air-conditioned Masonic Temple on a blistering hot day, r87! God Bless Bette for entertaining us with a rendition of I've Written a Letter to Daddy.

R73 Another name for Fupa is pussmelon.

Thoughts and prayers to all of the women who have paid thousands of dollars for musical theater training just to see a lucrative job taken by Countess LuAnn for Chicago.

[quote] If that is from THE THREE SISTERS (1973 revival), then the other 2 women are Mary-Joan Negro as Masha and Mary Lou Rosato as Olga.

I think you mean Mary-Joan African American, thank you very much.

R67,

Not good. In fact, the most impressive performance from that cast came from Calista Flockhart, and that was before she got Ally McBeal.

[quote]she made them hold the house from opening until 845 because she was happy with the lighting

Wow, she is a hard ass.

How long did it take them to change the lighting until she was unhappy with it?

Ben Brantley gifted Moulin Rouge with an unqualified rave in the NYT.

R94 lol

Brantley’s review is just pathetic. He sounds like a 17 year old fangirl. Danny Burstein is fine in MR but was much, much better in My Fair Lady for a short stint earlier this year. Aaron was adequate. As Miss B stated, Karen Olivo is the standout, by a mile. Whether she rises to the great ladies of contemporary musical theater though is quite a stretch.

This is a show that will run for years with every unsophisticated tourist who loved Mama Mia. They’ll be on their feet for the curtain call and what follows (a wholly unnecessary tack on that’s like way too much candy on Halloween). It’s miles better than Mama Mia but its book is clunky and all the charm of the movie love story is entirely missing.

Calista should have made her career doing all of Shelley's roles, r92.

I can't quite imagine Calista battling Cleopatra Jones.

That production of Three Sisters was a disaster of Epic Proportions. And the poster above is correct- the only one who made it out unscathed was Flockhart. Had Flockhart not gone to television, I'm convinced she would have become the next Julie Harris.

It appears that Calista did Irena in 1995.....

What movie will come to Bway next??

Stupid tourists want to know

I'm hoping for Koyaanisqatsi.

R102, Rosemary's Baby the Musical

I didn't realize Miss McGillis had done Regina (Pasadena Playhouse). I don't remember her Hedda as being well-received, or was it the production?

[quote]What movie will come to Bway next??[/quote]

Dawson's Fifty Load Weekend -- The Musical.

Stephanie J. Block IS Mommie Dearest!

I'd pay for that, R106. Starring DL faves Andrew Keenan-Bolger as Dawson and Raul Esparza as Load #43.

Fuck you, r108. I either star as crucial Load #1 or I’m not interested.

Leave Load #43 to someone like Roger Bart.

Fuck you, r108. I either star as crucial Load #1 or I’m not interested.

Leave Load #43 to someone like Roger Bart.

[quote] I don't remember her Hedda as being well-received, or was it the production?

1. It was a Roundabout production and they all suck. Roundabout's mission is to get well known stars and cast them in crap productions, obviously to humiliate them.

2. It was modernized to the 1950s, so they went into it with the understanding that it was a MAKING A STATEMENT play.

3. Roundabout suck, suck, sucks!!

[quote]Leave Load #43 to someone like Roger Bart.

Fuck you. Leave Load #43 to someone like Lionel Bart.

I wonder off Anyone Can Whistle would work better as a film than a stage show. I keep picturing John Waters' Desperate Living. It could be a grimy, gritty fairy tale.

I love "Anyone Can Whistle," even with its loony, almost-incomprehensible book. And the score, compared to the boring shit of "Road Show," is divine. I thought that was one Encores show that was exceptionally well done.

R114, The cast was perfect, Donna, Sutton and Raul.

DL fave La Tveit's not looking too good.

R116 He needs anal

R116, What makes you say that?

Looks like already had anal, and it ended in.... murrrderrrr...

People need to stop thinking of Broadway actors as though they are some kind of celebrities. Nine times out of ten, they can’t even dress themselves flatteringly for a red carpet. See above! Clowns. Talented clowns, but clowns.

[quote]I love "Anyone Can Whistle," even with its loony, almost-incomprehensible book. And the score, compared to the boring shit of "Road Show," is divine. I thought that was one Encores show that was exceptionally well done.

Agreed, and it my opinion, it was the best performance Sutton Foster has ever given. She was excellent in it.

Oh, Aaron. Did he not have anyone to tell him that wasn't a good idea?

I still want to see a musical version of The Deer Hunter.

Didi mao! Didi mao! Just watch my head go POW!

That suit has to be an official coming out. "Yeah, bitches, I'm gayer than Christmas. If I weren't, would I be wearing THIS?"

Can you imagine the big chorus number behind the final Russian roulette scene, R124? Then the dramatic power ballad by the DeNiro character before the Walken character shoots himself.

That is one ill-fitting bodice at R105 .

I guess McGillis refused to wear a corset. Those clothes don't hang right without them.

God Bless America.

Opelka is a giant!

We're back!

Page Six goes to town on Our Faye. And of course, they just HAVE to dillydally and wallow in all that old pee-throwing rumor nonsense.

Mere mortals should be GRATEFUL Faye anoints them so!

———————————

[quote]According to the book “Easy Riders and Raging Bulls,” during the filming of 1974’s “Chinatown,” Dunaway had a habit of urinating into trash cans and a disdain for flushing toilets in her dressing room. Rather, the book claims, she called in Teamsters to do the job, leading to multiple resignations. (Dunaway told author Peter Biskind she had “no recollection” of such doings.)

[quote]Once during filming, the book alleges, Dunaway said that she needed a bathroom break but director Roman Polanski asked her to wait. Later, when he bent down to speak with the actress through a car window, she allegedly responded by tossing a cup of liquid into Polanski’s face. It was full of urine.

[quote][bold]Her pissy behavior has been so extreme, [/bold]even other notoriously prickly actors are shocked. James Woods, who worked with Dunaway on the 1976 TV movie “The Disappearance of Aimee,” recalled in an interview how “she threw something at me because I ad-libbed a line . . . She was just so rude. If Bette Davis [also in the movie] can be nice to people, Faye Dunaway ought to be buying them limousines as presents.”

If an old monster and shit stirrer like Bette Davis thinks you're over the top....I mean, Bette was a cunt but she never thought of throwing pee in Joan's face.

Well, be thankful she peed on Jon Voight.

[italic]Not Pee Shy: The Faye Dunaway Story[/italic]

Only on Lifetime

Hahah, looks like Muriel hasn't restored paywalls yet.

No, they're still there on certain threads.

R135 This poverty thread isn't paywalled

[quote]R135 Hahah, looks like Muriel hasn't restored paywalls yet.

Y’all are risking a cup of piss to the face.

#LeaveMurielAlone!

It was never paywalled. #363 was/is.

Another FUCK YOU to OP’s arrogance in beginning a new thread way too soon.

I think Romey and Michelle’s High School Reunion would make a good stage musical.

I don't, r140. I loved the movie, but it really was dependent on the charm and chemistry of its stars.

[quote]Another FUCK YOU to OP’s arrogance in beginning a new thread way too soon.

I'm glad OP started a new one. The previous one was paywalled. Why should the voices of the poor be silenced? Did you learn nothing from Les Miserables?

Matt Anscher is the Faye Dunaway loon.

Taking a moment away from her busy West Side Story schedule......

[quote]R140 Another FUCK YOU to OP’s arrogance in beginning a new thread way too soon.

You are someone who likes to complain without offering solutions. You have never answered the question from the previous thread,[bold] “What post # do you think should be achieved before beginning a new thread?”[/bold]

In the past, a problem has been that when a Bway thread approaches the bitter end, multiple new ones spring up at the same time, all bearing the same number.

How sad that is.

R145 But this thread was started by a povo for povo trash

How very dare you, R146

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION. Guttersnipe!

That rarely happened, r145. The real problem is if the OP of the new thread doesn’t link to it in the led one. They need to start the new one about 590, so they can’t still get in there with a link. Back when the search engine wasn’t working,that’s when the multiple threads started, because without a link, no one had a way of knowing there was already a new thread.

I'm telling you, this is some great theatre gossip here!

Who doesn't enjoy reading about Faye Dunaway and Matt the loon?

Are they the same person?

Thank you, R148 . That is very helpful. And I am sure you’re not the bitter, resentful, fly-off-the-handlish monstrosity known as r146

To your procedural outlines, I would also add that a link to the old thread should be posted at the top of the new one.

As was done in this one.

Isn’t Karen Olivo too short for that gesture?

I have never needed a link to the next thread to find it. Just go to the main page and scroll down. Use the "find" feature on your browser and put in the number of the new thread or "theatre gossip". I've never not found the new thread that way.

Also, on this day in 2019, who uses the DL Search function?! Search the site on Google.

[quote]r152 I have never needed a link to the next thread to find it. Just go to the main page and scroll down. Use the "find" feature on your browser and put in the number of the new thread or "theatre gossip". I've never not found the new thread that way.

Be that as it may (WHORE!), it's considerate to supply a link at the end of an old thread to the next one.

Why deny The People this?

Listen you cunts- Knock it off.

And link to both previous and succeeding threads.

Mr. Patti Murin....

[italic]Anything Goes,[/italic] indeed.

Where's a real link to Colin's videos?

Is it really a valuable acquisition?

Yeah, caps are cute. Show me the vids!

Someone should start a "thoughts and prayers" thread for Patti over at BWW.

I didn’t see any dick shots.

I didn’t see any dick shots.

Love Colin’s fuzzy chest. Hope more screen caps or the actual vid surface.

I don't understand why the videos are unavailable on the Gay-Male-Celebs site.

The person who has them is probably looking to make money on them.

I liked what someone said in the Cats Movie thread.

Grizabella is a worn out, drunk, prostitute cat. She drags herself around the stage whining about how she was beautiful once.

Gus has spent his life entertaining people. Making them laugh, making them cry, making them think.

So why does Grizabella get chosen? Maybe just to shut her up and get her out of there?

I mourn TG #363.....

No Comment

I knew #364 was Susan Dey!

Here’s the link to THEATER GOSSIP #365.

[quote]I liked what someone said in the Cats Movie thread. Grizabella is a worn out, drunk, prostitute cat. She drags herself around the stage whining about how she was beautiful once. Gus has spent his life entertaining people. Making them laugh, making them cry, making them think. So why does Grizabella get chosen? Maybe just to shut her up and get her out of there?

I'd like to suggest that perhaps you may be overthinking the "story" of CATS.

ROADSHOW reminded me how much I’ve missed Papi Raul.

Even looking a little fat and greasy... he’s still hotter than most other leading men of Bway.

Did they change Road Show at all? I remember it being so boring.

[quote]r169 I mourn TG #363.....

If #363's in trouble, it has nothing to do with us.

It was always the slow little thread that fought its way to the top, made a great success. Well, it's not a little thread anymore.

Now that's the truth, to face and deal with, if you want to survive. The truth is, it got old.

Do y'all think we'll ever get a Broadway production of Fairview? It seemed to get so much hype, the Pulitzer, sold very well in its limited runs. I'm bummed I never got a chance to see it.

Will we ever get a sequel to A Chorus Line? Those who aren't chosen stand out in the alleyway and wait for the "chosen" to come out and beat the crap out of them?

Do they break the winners' legs with crowbars .... Tonya style?

I didn't get it

I didn't get it

[italic]Everything was beautiful / In the all-ay

Off-topic, sorry not sorry. I had just gotten in and flipped on the TV. The Joan Rivers Show. I'd just missed the Chippendales and she was talking to Robin Byrd and some odd duck named Ugly George. Then Dr. Ruth came out and joined the discussion. I looked up Ugly George:

He was known as Ugly George, and he roamed Manhattan in an open-chested silver vest and short-shorts, wearing a huge silver backpack full of early videotaping gear. He approached women in the street and tried to wheedle them into the broom closets of Midtown office buildings. (His trademark come-on was, "Let's flex into a dimly lit hallway.") Then he coaxed them, camera rolling, into taking off their clothes. He also sometimes persuaded them to go to his apartment, a crimson-sheeted basement lair.

It is a musical fable in the making.

And now he works in casting, r182.

How much trouble is TOOTSIE in? Why is no one talking about it?

This last week it played to under 74% capacity--it sold fewer tix than anything on Bway except BEAUTIFUL and FRANKIE & JOHNNY.

Will it even last til the end of the year?

the news is even worse for Tootsie. It only grossed 51% of its potential last week. Third lowest on Bway. Only F&J and Pretty Woman did worse.

I thought Ugly George was kind of sexy. He had a seductive voice.

I didnt realize Tootsie was doing so poorly. That is surprising, considering how well-reviewed it was, and how popular the movie was. Maybe this might be the end of turning old movies into musicals. Please.

I think Tootsie will last out the year and close with the new year. It needs to get about 300 performances to be really viable with a post-Broadway life. The fact that it got the raves it did and a major Tony win and is in trouble so quickly spells trouble for a potential post-Broadway tour.

Word of mouth is everything. Good, less than that and indifferent. This is the latter.

Tootsie: "Unstoppable" - or simply unpopular?

I don't know who at Tootsie decided "Unstoppable" was the song to feature - they also did it on the Today show. I guess maybe because Michael changes into Dorothy in the middle of it? But it's a terrible song. There are three or four actual decent songs in the show that they could feature, but "Unstoppable" isn't one of them.

You wanted to see Fairview, which has now had two entire runs at different theaters, but can only see it if it plays on certain streets??

Tootsie is going to struggle this fall once there are more new Broadway musicals on the boards.

To the posters discussing COCO and Roundabouts THREE SISTERS.. heed the datalounge of yore for hilarious and REAL gossip about these two productions. Link below.. also plenty of juicy stuff about Patti, Nathan and the hatred between Dame Mirren and Sir Ian

actually part 1 has the discussion of COCO and THREE SISTERS both are great threads though

Hal Prince has died!

I guess Steve will be next.

Oh, God! Not Hal. For some reason, I always thought of him as a bright light of the Broadway golden age and that we could recapture that magic as long as people like him stuck around. Once Sondheim and Jerry Herman are gone, it's gonna be pretty dire. Yes, they haven't done much of note for 20+ years, but it was still nice to have them around in case they got inspired and saved the day.

The legendary Hal.

R177, Pulitzer Prize winners rarely make it to Broadway. Which tells you what is wrong with Broadway.

Fairview

Cost of Living

Sweat

Between Riverside and Crazy

The Flick

Water by the Spoonful

Clybourne Park

Ruined

No one cares, r202. We're in mourning for Hal Prince.

I'm stunned. I know that's silly, but.....

Ummm, of those 8 alone you mentioned, three DID make it to broadway. And there are several others. Not sure you understand the meaning of "rarely."

Who was the last theatrical giant of Prince's caliber to die? One whose career spanned so many decades and wore so many hats? Oscar Hammerstein? Rodgers?

R206, David Merrick?

Maybe George Abbott, r206, which was in 1995.

R188, Brantley predicted Honeymoon in Vegas would be a huge hit.

R209, Honeymoon in Vegas should have been a hit, maybe not huge, but a hit. The producers were idiots.

Who will perform at Hal Prince's Memorial Service?

Joel Grey

Patti LuPone

Mandy Patinkin

WHO??????

Why does it matter whether Pulitzer Prize winners play on streets in the West 40s as opposed to somewhere else?

Angela Lansbury and Len Cariou could perform or at least appear at Prince's memorial. Who's still around from Company or Night Music?

Glynis Johns is still around, but she'll be 96 in October.

[quote]Who was the last theatrical giant of Prince's caliber to die? One whose career spanned so many decades and wore so many hats? Oscar Hammerstein? Rodgers?

"So many hats" is an odd way to phrase it, for all of those people. Prince was a producer and a director, R&H were writers and also producers. It's not the number of hats, but the quality of the work and the sheer number of classics they created.

From "Company": Donna McKechnie, Barbara Barrie, John Cunningham, Charles Kimbrough, Pamela Myers, Teri Ralston . . .

I just posted this in the Prince thread. Georgia really was something, wasn't she?

[quote]Georgia really was something, wasn't she?

I loved Georgia's "Saga of Jenny". Georgia makes the song a bit bitchy.

"Gin and rum and destiny play funny tricks"

This was from two of Georgia's albums combined where she did songs from Kurt Weill and George Gershwin.

Speaking of Georgia Brown, has Encores done Carmelina? Half of that score is wonderful.

And Georgia's "Alabama Song" was so great as well. So 1960s. Can't you see Don and Betty Draper dancing to it?

Glynis Johns isn't performing at a Hal Prince tribute. She lives in a nursing home.

I don't understand the hysteria re: Prince. He was like 1000 and his tribute show was embarrassingly bad.

Liza would do a video tribute, but he kept her from doing Cabaret on Broadway so on the day of his memorial service, she's going to take a handful of pills and think about what could have been.

Harold Prinsh kept me from being an EGOT. I definitely would have won a Tony for Shally Bowlesh if he had casht me inshtead of that woman who couldn't shing.

I find your post rather silly, r222.

r223

oh Liza... you have 2 Tonys... you need that Grammy

[quote]oh Liza... you have 2 Tonys... you need that Grammy

I have three. But who'sh counting?

r226

I didn't count the fake one but you know Babs does

[quote]I didn't count the fake one but you know Babs does

I got that award for adding lushtre to the Broadway sheashon. I put the lush in lushtre!

In answer to r206, Arthur Laurents,

[quote]In answer to [R206], Arthur Laurents,

Excuse me, you old poof, but it was me! Laurents, pfffft. What hats did he wear?

I saw Roza at the Taper in LA. It was fantastic, a huge hit with rave reviews and sold out houses. I was sure it would be Georgia’s Tony award and Bob Gunton’s, too. And then it completely fell apart in NY, which hated it. And a year or two later, Georgia was suddenly gone, with no Tony for her.

No, Laurents wasn’t on the same level as Hal Prince.

I wish I had been able to see Georgia Brown in the Sting "ThreePenny Opera." I guess it must have sucked because they didn't record it.

Miss Ellen Burstyn learns about Ivory Snow.....

Steve will speak at Hal’s memorial

I loved Hal, so much respect

"Steve will speak at Hal’s memorial"

Hal knew Steve Harvey?

Is Hal's longtime partner, Ruth Mitchell, still alive?

R239 Yes

R239 Sorry to break the news to R240, but Ruth Mitchell died in 2000. If she were alive today, she'd be ninety-nine.

R241, 99 is still young.

Has the honorable Joanna Merlin commented?

Prince had a wonderful career and seemed fairly healthy up until the end. We should all be so lucky. Yes, his tribute show was kinda shitty, but was that his fault? Did he have much to do with it?

What was Hal's biggest hit, The Pajama Game?

His biggest hit, like it or not, was "Phantom of the Opera." And "Fiddler on the Roof" was a bigger hit than "The Pajama Game."

Tonight NBC News credited Prince as the director of Fiddler and West Side Story. Jerome Robbins is spinning in his grave.

Expect a lot of that, r247.

On the 20th Century

R205, which on the list made it to Broadway?

None of the eight are listed in IBDB.

^^^^Correction, Clybourne Park did make it to Broadway.

Sweat was nominated for several Tonys including Best Play

Hmmmm....am I imagining it, or does that clip from ON THE 20TH CENTURY @ r249 just sound not-that-pleasant?

It's like everyone in the chorus is an alto, or something.

This surely could be better choreographed, and sung?

Moulin Rouge is both terrible and boring.

Alex Timbers should be tried for crimes against Broadway. He obviously despises musicals—and chooses to abandon any pretense of character, musical storytelling, tonal consistency or acting values. The book is filled with the most creaky, overripe language (“Days turned into weeks. Weeks turned into months. Months turned into...”)

It’s like being trapped at a Vegas show, crossed with a karaoke bar, sprinkled with a cover band. Who the fuck wants to hear vanilla bland Aaron Tveit cover those songs; or Burstein; or Karen Olivo as “Satine.” (Vagine!)

All those songs just sit there like random samples...or, worse, they’re treated as punchlines.

A truly hollow, boring, glitzy, sad evening,. The stoooopid audience ate it up, with endless selfies and all that shite.

Blech!

It's nice that Karen Olivo has bounced back from molding with clay.

Prince had a wife of almost 60 years but I thought he was gay. DL once said he was coupled with Larry Fuller but it was DL of course.

Are people posting in 2019: "But he has a wife!"

R256, Not to besmirch Hal's memory, but he cruised me big time in the Shubert Theatre lobby in Boston during a preview performance of the flop musical Rex in 1976 when I was 24.

Why would that besmirch his memory, R258, unless you were dressed as a Nazi or something like that? Good for Hal that he cruised you.

5 Ways Harold Prince Changed Theatre As We Knew It:

Thanks for that review, R254. That's what I suspected would be the case, which is why I have resisted buying tickets. But just out of curiosity, why do you think the critics mostly gave it such a pass? Perhaps they were just so overtaken by the quality of the physical production that they were willing to ignore all of the cheesy aspects of it?

R261, I saw it in Boston last year. Is it a great show? Absolutely not. But, it's a fun night in the theatre, mainly due to the audience being so into it.

I found Moulin Rouge to be particularly depressing. In the past, when new shows such as Hamilton or The Producers become became premium-seat blockbusters, I felt that at least they had artistic merit or ambition. As theatrical productions that were commercial endeavours, there was an argument to be made that if a legitimate demand for the product justified such ticket prices, then at least the products were skilled, dextrous examples of an artistic medium.

On stage, Moulin Rouge! is a dumb, loud and deeply cynical concoction. And for the first time, if the grosses thus far are anything to go by, it's a big dumb musical, of little artistic merit, that an audience seems to be willing to fork out premium prices to see.

The success of Moulin Rouge! is a bigger threat to the Broadway musical than any mediocre stage adaptation of a 1980s film.

The Producers had artistic merit? I never understood what all the fuss was about? It was 2.5 hours of grown men running around the stage, screaming. Beyond silly.

The Producers is Follies next to Moulin Rouge. I can’t fathom why most critics gave it a pass. The construction, of the script/songs is piss-poor and inept.

[quote]And "Fiddler on the Roof" was a bigger hit than "The Pajama Game."

So was "Cabaret."

R263, I hope you didn't pay full price.

Moulin Rouge will appeal to exactly the same audience that Mamma Mia did - tourists and unsophisticated theater goers desperate to have a good time. It’s loud, fun, easy to watch with just barely enough of a compelling love story at the center.

I did not like it but most of the rest of the audience went crazy for it (or were faking it and brought along by the roars from others in the crowd).

The sets are spectacular and Karen Olivo is a top notch lead.

r266

Cabaret was bigger than Pajama Game? Maybe the movie but not the original shows

R2568, the fact remains that you can't simply whip up a hit Broadway musical. The wreckage of equally crass commercial ventures are closing all over town at the moment. Credit where credit is due. A quirky cultish movie became an instantaneous hit. It sold out last year in Boston, and every performance has been sold out since its first performance in NY. That success is not the product of cynical producing or the dumbing down of audiences. It's the result of an indefinable array of decisions and timing that produce success.

Why couldn't Tootsie, Pretty Woman, Rocky, Spiderman, Bridges of Madison County, Legally Blonde, Catch Me if you Can, Cry Baby, A Catered Affair, Dance of the Vampires, Finding Neverland, Ghost, The Goodbye Girl, Groundhog Day, Honeymoon in Vegas, etc., do exactly the same thing and make a fortune? Because there's something 'different' about a big hit musical.

And I would propose that Moulin Rouge has a lot more in common with big old fashioned musicals of the past than the After School Specialness of a Dear Evan Hanson or the weepy Lifetime movieisms of a Once.

Broadway has always been an emphatically middlebrow environment with random works that aimed both higher and lower. Moulin Rouge is no more harmful a hit than Cats, Wicked, or 42nd Street. I don't think anyone was expecting a new Sweeney Todd when Moulin Rouge came to town. So don't be depressed, and please don't judge an audience actually having a good time at the theater.

Moulin Rouge is a threat to the Broadway musical?. Really?

I’m not sure who to blame or credit, but someone turned Moulin Rouge from a captivating, charming, idiosyncratic movie into an at best middlebrow pop music bonanza on Broadway. For those who love to the movie, skip the musical. All of the charm has been sucked out and replaced with an over the top, in your face assault on the senses.

R271, While you may have felt the movie to be "captivating" and "charming," a survey of negative reviews from the original film suggest an experience at the movie eerily similar to yours at the theater. It sounds like the Broadway team have uncannily recreated the film!

See below:

"It's still a one-of-a-kind, we'll give it that. But its sense of fun is so relentless and excessive, it all ends up being extremely tedious and shallow."

"Moulin Rouge is an assault on the senses. Everything here is over the top. You may find it pleasant, but you will almost certainly find it exhausting."

"Mr. Luhrmann and his colleagues have worked like whirling dervishes to make the plot look like it's moving."

"If its goal was to reveal the emptiness of postmodern bricolage at the blockbuster level, it has succeeded. By any other standard, it's a mess."

"An often interminable musical..."

"Luhrmann rabidly Hoovers up a century or so worth of pop culture detritus and then projectile vomits it all over the screen with a vengeance."

"Even Luhrmann's MTV editing wouldn't be a bad thing if there were a point to it -- but it's an exercise in pointlessness."

"Like its seductive protagonists, it wants to show us everything it can... but never reveals what we really want to see."

"Textbook postmodernism at its worst, a relentless pastiche of pop-cultural sounds and representations sutured into the service of a cliché."

"In the end the soundtrack medleys all too concretely recall those old 'bouncing-ball' sing-along movies."

"An absurd waste."

"The net result of all this cinematic whirling, of the "wrong" music and of the parodic plot, is that nothing at all in the film moves us."

"in their determination to resuscitate the musical they've managed only to bury it deeper."

"Could have been edited by a crack-addicted ferret with ADD who just downed a half-dozen Pixie Stix."

"It's like being trapped with a major Attention Deficit Disorder victim in control of the TV remote or car radio."

"It leaves you feeling as worn-out as a grandmother at a rave."

"Chokes on its own artifice."

One of the Colin Donnell threads mentions that Patti Murin is crazy. I'm intrigued. What do we know of Patti Murin's crazy? Does anyone have entertaining examples?

"Broadway has always been an emphatically middlebrow environment with random works that aimed both higher and lower."

I've never been to one, but what happens at the memorial services like the one Hal Prince will have in the fall? Is it just a parade of collaborators reminiscing and saying kind things or are there performances from the deceased's shows? I realize that the services must vary depending on who is being memorialized/celebrated.

If there are performances, whom would you like to see doing what at Hal Prince's? (Doesn't have to be the actor who created the role.) I'd like to see Steam Heat from The Pajama Game and A Weekend in the Country from ALNM (decidedly not ALNM's Every Day a Little Death or Chrysanthemum Team from Pacific Overtures, at least not in this context).

Weekend and Diana were the only saving graces of the film....

If Moulin Rouge is a hit, it will be the all time worst hit.

Speaking of that show, why did Victoria Mallory's career go straight down the shitter after "Night Music"?

She was Maria in the first West Side Story revival, had a part in Follies, then after playing Anne turned to tai chi (??)

Maybe she decided she was over that shit business.

Per Wikipedia, Mallory married her Henrik from ALNM (Mark Lambert, who, to me, is the only one who's hit those two high notes in "Later" exactly right, at least on the recordings I've heard), did a couple of soaps (and tai chi) and died of pancreatic cancer in 2014.

[quote]Cabaret was bigger than Pajama Game? Maybe the movie but not the original shows

Yeah, the original shows. Cabaret ran for three months longer than The Pajama Game did. The Pajama Game was certainly a huge hit (although the same team's Damn Yankees was more enduring, and a better show), although by the mid-to-late 60s, it had faded from touring/stock (which Yankees never did). Cabaret was a game-changing hit (which "The Pajama Game" was not) and has never left the standard musical theatre repertoire in the 50-plus years since it opened, and its reputation is just as bright now as it was when it opened. The same can't be said of The Pajama Game.

"If there are performances, whom would you like to see doing what at Hal Prince's?"

maybe something similar to what was done at Alvin Ailey's service.

[quote] why did Victoria Mallory's career go straight down the shitter after "Night Music"?

Uh ... it didn't. She was offered a leading role on "The Young and the Restless" and moved to Los Angeles, where she starred on that show for several years (while continuing to do theatre roles, like Rosabella in "The Most Happy Fella" in LA venues.) She got a second soap opera after that gig ended. She worked consistently through the mid-to-late 1980s, when the birth of her daughter became her main focus.

I found this interview with her:

Victoria Mallory on far left

The notoriety of Y&R allowed her to do a lot of regional theater and was often starring at the Muni. I maybe could have seen her as Johanna in Sweeney Todd but there was surprisingly little for a soprano to do in the late 70s.

Talk about bad casting, Michael Bennett nearly put her in as the original Morales in ACL.

That's right, r286! Because she was a real dancer. I remember that. It wasn't at the beginning, though, because she was already in TYATR by that point. It might have been for the LA company, when Priscilla Lopez left after opening the show and playing it for a few months.

It just surprises me that in that era, a relatively young performer (mid 20s) would train for the theater, have Broadway success, then choose to leave the stage for soap operas. It makes financial sense, but ... somehow seems uncharacteristic for back then.

R287, it was when they were originally casting the workshop. He knew Victoria from Follies and felt she had the voice for the show.

And she was very, very well liked within the industry, which is why she kept getting jobs.

I don’t think her leaving Broadway for the soaps is all that odd. Broadway performers leave NY for LA in an instant and Broadway never hears from them again if they succeed. It means national exposure on a highly paid job and soaps were really glamorous in the 70s and 80s. And you get rabid, loyal fans out of it! And with that kind of exposure and fan base, she could have done Stage whenever she felt like it, if she felt like it.

Doesn’t Eve leave Broadway for Hollywood?

The pay is undoubtedly better ... but would you rather perform Sondheim, or this?

(she's in the opening of the clip)

The pay is considerably better. The work is less exhausting and you don’t have to do the same thing every night

And you get to live in LA instead Slum York.

I should have specified I'm surprised she left the [italic]musical theater[/italic] for TV. Non-musical actors move between mediums wherever there's a role. But she had a rare, specific gift - that glistening soprano. The only stage voices I've heard with that kind of purity are Barbara Cook's and Rebecca Luker's.

To move to daytime TV from there at the top of your game is unusual.

I applaud any performer who can make a living off their gifts, so I'm not judging her. It's simply a little surprising to me.

I don’t think it’s strange at all, and it was not strange for the era. About the same time, Pam Myers moved to LA as well, for a regular gig on the Sha-Na-Na series.

Having a glistening soprano doesn’t last forever. And Stephen Somdheim’s shows are prestigious (especially in the 70s) but they don’t run forever and again, especially in the 70s before A Chorus Line and Cats had their blockbuster runs. I can’t imagine that musical theater performers in the 70s could have conceived of shows running that long. By contrast, Soap Operas weren’t going anywhere. That would have been a spectacular move for her to be making great money on a job that wasn’t going to end. Don’t forget that A Chorus Line is written around the same time and those characters are afraid that Broadway is dying.

Who's to say Barbara Cook wouldn't have gone into soaps if she photographed better.

Tootsie will close in January, and Diana will take The Marquis. You read it here first. Tootsie has no real advance past Labor Day, and its not a hit with New Yorkers or even most tourists. It will be doing in the $600,000s by September.

Diana Rigg?

[quote]Having a glistening soprano doesn’t last forever. And Stephen Sondheim’s shows are prestigious (especially in the 70s) but they don’t run forever and again, especially in the 70s before A Chorus Line and Cats had their blockbuster runs. I can’t imagine that musical theater performers in the 70s could have conceived of shows running that long. By contrast, Soap Operas weren’t going anywhere. That would have been a spectacular move for her to be making great money on a job that wasn’t going to end. Don’t forget that A Chorus Line is written around the same time and those characters are afraid that Broadway is dying.

Also, there began to be fewer and few roles for sopranos as musical theater scores changed so much beginning in the late 1960s and continuing on to the present day. And whatever roles there were for sopranos would most often have gone to young sopranos, so Victoria probably didn't see a lot of longevity in her Broadway career.

That’s a very good point. This is why Laura Benanti has made a career off of revivals. It’s been a long time since they have written good roles for sopranos.

Actually, Victoria sang quite a bit on Y&R and they even starred her in a daytime musical special with some other male soap stars. She once did a lovely rendition of "Time After Time" (not the Cyndi Lauper version) while dancing with John McCook.

Here she is shortly before her death singing the Desiree portion of "You Must Meet My Wife " with Len Cariou and she's really wonderful and she looks great.

Did Cariou fuck multiple women in the ALNM OBC?

Everyone hated D’Jamin Bartlett in the original ALNM, so no fucks for her. Gingold was ducking David Staller and Vicki was with Mark Lambert and I think Judy Kahan was married. So unless Cariou was screwing Glynis (I’ve never heard anything about that), he was probably getting fucked elsewhere.

He was fucking Glennie during "Sweeney Todd" until he surprised her on location of "The Big Chill" and found Kline fucking Glennie.

Was Victoria seeing Cariou when she was in FOLLIES? I thought she was with an older man at one point during her Broadway career.

I had Len before all those bitches.

R305, During the 1979 Tony Awards, they mistakenly identified Glenn as "Mrs. Len Cariou" while he was giving his acceptance speech.

Betty, you had every man sooner or later.

Hermione was "ducking" Staller?

Victoria Mallory's daughter Ramona also played Anne Egerman in the Broadway revival of A Little Night Music with Catherine Zeta-Jones

Ramona

The other Ramona....

G and C are still such good, good friends.

As are P and L.....

Victoria Mallory had a wonderful career. Even before she hit Broadway, she was with the excellent children's theater company The Prince Street Players. (Fun fact: they used to test their new shows out for Bette Midler back when she was singing at the gay bathhouse). Victoria appeared in the broadcast versions of Prince Street Players "Alladin" and "The Emperor's New Clothes" broadcast on CBS in 1967.

[quote]Hermione was "ducking" Staller?

Kinky!

anyone have any experience with Suzanna Bowling ? She runs some online rag called time square chronicles and has somehow insinuated herself into the heriarchy of Drama Desk.

She is pestering the hell out of a good buddy of mine to do her a favor. All I remember about her is that she harassed everyone at the DD awards demanding selfies and interiviews for her stupid website. It was kind of a running joke

I am telling my friend to punch and delete this crazy bitch but friend is afraid she will blackball him with Drama Desk. Laurie Metcalf's face on the page link says it all (scroll down)

Those photos are.....what's the word......

She's loud, insane, and vindictive, R318. And always covered in cat hair.

[quote] She's loud, insane, and vindictive, [R318]. And always covered in cat hair.

LOL She's one of several nobody ever heard ofs with a website that Drama Desk for some reason elects as voters. I mean some of them are known but if you go down the list its a virtual whose who of who isn't. It seems like they all just have a website to justify the free theater tickets they get from being a Drama Desk voter.

I mean, should Alix Cohen whatever her name is writing "Woman About Town" be passing judgement on NY best theatre artists? And some guy named David Spencer who has a website that was built in 1995 to post reivews ??? I was shocked looking at this list. There are some credible pepole but some of them are just not qualified

DD is filled with people like her; folks who just want to meet celebrities and get free tickets to shows. It's truly embarrassing.

[quote] DD is filled with people like her; folks who just want to meet celebrities and get free tickets to shows. It's truly embarrassing.

How do the DD awards stay prestigious with this motely crew behind the scenes?

Why do you queens actually go see shows if you hate it all or do you not have the ability to just sit there with your mouth closed for two hours and just enjoy yourself. Lots of sad souls here.

DL is filled with people like her; folks who just want to meet celebrities and get free tickets to shows. It's truly embarrassing.

Well, ain't r324 just the Little Mary Sunshine!

R 324, many theater queens go to shows with the intention of trashing it, so they can post on DL about how it sucks, thereby trying to make everyone think they have sophisticated taste. " Crap like Tootsie is only intended for tourists; true theater lovers would only be seen attending Follies, Bajour, or Sunday in the Park." I guess it's a better pastime than doing opioids.

I went online to buy tickets for Almost Famous at the Old Globe. 13 minutes after going onsale they have a queue of over 2000 people waiting to buy tickets. The wait time is 45 minutes.

Yes because the notoriety of an anonymous post is worth the 4 hours and $200 to see a show we hate.

I generally try to see everything the DL hates.

[quote]r286 Michael Bennett nearly put [Victoria Mallory] in as the original Morales in ACL.

[quote]r287 That's right! Because she was a real dancer. I remember that. It wasn't at the beginning, though, because she was already in TYATR by that point. It might have been for the LA company, when Priscilla Lopez left after opening the show and playing it for a few months.

[quote]r289 it was when they were originally casting the workshop. He knew Victoria from Follies and felt she had the voice for the show.

Mallory was born with the last name Morales.

[italic]Coincidence??

Just saw an ad Producer Alan Carr placed for The Village People at Madison Sq Garden and promoting their soon to be filmed "Discoland, Where The Music Never Ends" which of course became "Can't Stop The Music". Most the credits are the same but this ad had Broadway legend Chita Rivera listed and Pat Ast. Going to assume she was to be Guttenberg's Mother but has she ever mentioned how she dodged this bullet?

[quote]Why do you queens actually go see shows if you hate it all or do you not have the ability to just sit there with your mouth closed for two hours and just enjoy yourself. Lots of sad souls here.

[quote]R 324, many theater queens go to shows with the intention of trashing it, so they can post on DL about how it sucks, thereby trying to make everyone think they have sophisticated taste. " Crap like Tootsie is only intended for tourists; true theater lovers would only be seen attending Follies, Bajour, or Sunday in the Park." I guess it's a better pastime than doing opioids.

Though I agree with both of you, I almost consider it a public service to post that I thought "Fairview" was one of the most godawful pieces of shit I've seen in years. Please do not waste your time or your money on this horrid play. The fact that it walked off with this year's Pulitzer Prize for drama is just proof that the artistic merit of that award has been reduced to zero. Fuck the critics for their hyping of this monstrosity.

[quote]The success of Moulin Rouge! is a bigger threat to the Broadway musical than any mediocre stage adaptation of a 1980s film.

Couldn’t disagree more. All the people who are comparing Mama Mia (which I loathed) to Moulin Rouge are way off base. MR has some great performances from Karen and Danny, and spectacular sets, lighting and staging. Like the movie, it doesn’t have much of a story, but once you accept that I was happy to go along for the ride. The finales to both acts leave the audience deliriously happy, and I sure can’t remember the last time that happened on Broadway. Dreamgirls, maybe?

r332. one can only assume they wanted Chita to ensure the film would be a flop (and I love. Chita, but she has appeared in some awful shows--always the best thing in them). But then with Steve Guttenberg, Bruce Jenner, June Havoc, Valerie Perrine and Nancy Walker at the helm, they probably decided why put Chita through it--they had enough bad luck charms without her.

R335, the only thing Chits could have done onscreen is to reenact Margaret Hamilton's performance in WOZ. The wide screen was just not her friend but the last row of the balcony was.

Thanks for posting that, R315. PATSY & LORETTA stars Bway stars Megan Hilty and Jessie Mueller.

And a lot of really terrible wigs.

I shall be there with bells on.

Do people still care about Patsy and Loretta? I would have thought they'd have been mostly forgotten by now especially since current country music does not celebrate their kind of country, the way it does the male acts of that era, like Cash and Haggard, etc.

R327, I'm not so sure it is.

I'm more of a Patsy than Loretta fan, but yes, these ladies both have a following among the millennials.

I'm a Gen-Xer. I remember back in the early 90s--no one but me was listening to Patsy, then suddenly, everyone was. She became enormously hip again for a while. Her stuff is classic.

I saw Loretta in concert 90 min outside NYC 2 summers ago. It was a mess and she was way too old to be performing but the crowd was interesting - every age group from senior citizens to 20’something hipsters.

Slow, for obvious reasons. If I may ask an off-topic question. When was the last time you listened to.....

Must be the dog days of August, but lately the theater gossip threads have pretty much ground to a halt.

I think it's the trolls, r344. Not to mention the bizarre complications around numbering, ending, and starting these threads.

Nah, if people wanted to post, they'd post. You can search Datalounge on Google, it's not difficult.

Barbra Streisand is STILL teasing her Gypsy according to the concert last night at Madison Square Garden. She lamented about how Gypsy never happened and that she had a real handle on the character of Rose and then proceeded to sing "Don't Rain on My Parade" while showing a slideshow of her in costume as Rose behind her. It ended with her name in lights as she stuck a Rose-like pose, admiring the lights with her back to the audience. At first, it seemed like she was resigned in that the film was dead and would never happen, but then she said something about how she's a fighter and doesn't give it.

Is she still trying to get this made? According to the wild applause when she mentioned it, maybe it has a bigger appeal than I initially thought.

Why doesn't she just sing stuff from the show in her concerts, if that's what she actually wants to perform?

Wild applause for the idea at a Barbra Streisand CONCERT has made you rethink the appeal of the project?

Why can't the role of Gramma Rose be added to the show? Has she thought of THAT?

What can't the role of a delusional, rampantly egotistical old lady who thinks she can still play the role of Rose in GYPSY on film, even though she's at least 40 years too old for it, be added to the movie? Maybe as a framing device? Yeah, that would work!

Can't Babs find a way to work GYPSY into the MARVEL action movie universe? Could Mama Rose be a superhero?

Barbra just needs to find a way to energize the material and connect with her core fanbase of heterosexual males, ages 13-25.

Set it in an insane asylum. Babs can reprise elements of her NUTS character before the inmates stage a production of GYPSY. Rose's Turn will have an added revelation about Papa.

I, too, don't know why Barbra doesn't just sing material from Gypsy during her concerts to scratch that itch. Do a full scale "Rose's Turn." The audience would go wild. She teased it about a decade ago with a medley of "Rose's Turn", "Some People", and "Don't Rain on My Parade", but never sang them all the way through.

She probably doesn't want to sing anything from the show so that, when her hologram stars in the new film version of Gypsy in 2047, it's a surprise.

Perhaps Barbra knows that she's simply not up to the vocal demands of Stein's music. If she blew a GYPSY medley live in concert, 1) the press would never let her forget it, even if her fandom would and 2) she'd never, ever get another chance to approach the material, even sweetened in the studio with retakes, remixes, et al.

Better to tantalize us with an unfulfilled wish than a disappointing reality.

Via CGI, she needs to play all the female roles. Brolin can play the male ones.

A labor of love. And her Dainty June could be extraordinary!

Did this really.... happen?

Ahe shot a take from THE OWL AND THE PUSSYCAT topless, but didn't want it in the finished film. Later, someone blew up frames from that take, and sold them.

There was a lawsuit ... I think the magazines had to be recalled?

How d'ya like them eggrolls?

If you google "barbra streisand nude" there's also various porn performers who could or could not be her ...

I, too, don't know why Barbra doesn't just sing material from Gypsy during her concerts to scratch that itch. She teased it about a decade ago with a medley of "Rose's Turn", "Some People", and "Don't Rain on My Parade", but never sang them all the way through.

Two reasons:

(1) She has always made a big deal that she considers herself an actress first, so she wouldn't want to do it without those book scenes; but more importantly

(2) A decade ago was a decade ago, and nowadays, she probably can't sing any of the big songs in the score properly, so she's better off just coyly teasing a movie remake that WILL NOT happen. If she COULD still sing the songs properly, why the hell didn't she sing one of them rather than "Don't Rain on My Parade" in last night's concert when she was talking about GYPSY?

All kidding aside, she has become such an embarrassment, I do wish she would just stop.

The only site on the entire world wide web that would feature Streisand's tits in the twenty first century is the Datalounge.

And more specifically a theatre gossip thread.

Streisand should just do a studio recording of Gypsy with an all star cast and call it a day. That way she can have a dream cast who would never work on film. Gaga as Louise, someone young like Buble singing Herbie's parts. Roslyn Kind, Lorna Luft, and Frankie Grande as the three old whore strippers.

Quite good tits, back in the day, that.

We discussed this a bit upthread...

And now FORBES.com has picked up on the story. Is this writer in our midst?

No matter how much the screenplay has been updated for the musical, I just don't think "Tootsie" was the ideal vehicle to bring to Broadway in 2019. Neither was "Pretty Woman" in 2018, for that matter.

Not every movie needs to be made into a Broadway musical.

Streisand was not nude. It was Julie Budd.

[quote]Streisand was not nude. It was Julie Budd.

Streisand's "Funny Girl" standby Lainie Kazan, on the other hand, did pose nude for Playboy.

J Budd!

[quote]Lainie Kazan, on the other hand, did pose nude for Playboy.

So did DL fave Karen Ziemba!

Boy, the folks at Playbill sound like a real joy to work for. I just saw a job posting with them in which they felt the need to state (in all CAPITAL letters) that if you are caught engaging in excessive chatting, emailing, or social media use, you will be terminated IMMEDIATELY.

Either they've gone through a string of terrible employees lately or they're total assholes. Don't think I'm interested in finding out which.

Actually, I started in this business as an actress and got into singing later, but most producers think of me only as a vocalist.

That's quite a set of Kazans on Lainie! Howchamagowcha.

Who wants to see my knockers, kids?

[quote]Perhaps Barbra knows that she's simply not up to the vocal demands of Stein's music.

Oh, dear.

[quote]r370 Streisand was not nude. It was Julie Budd.

If it hadn't been Streisand in the cut frames High Society ran, there would have been no lawsuit.

This is well documented. Time magazine even did an article on it, back then.

Umm, I kinda think the person who wrote that it was Julie Budd, not Streisand in those nude pics was joking....

I don't get the joke : (

Julie Budd went out of her way to copy Streisand in every way.

Thanks, R381. I guess I thought that was common knowledge.

Trekked over the hills and dales into the the wilds of New Jersey to see Rex Smith & Andrea McCardle in "I Do, I Do". A real nice production. I keep hearing here that McCardle can't act but she was lovely. In her big first act scene when she learns of betrayal she was really excellent, very moving. She shined in the first act as Rex did the second. Rex was maybe the best "old man" I' ve seen in any production of "I Do, I Do".

Where in NJ is this production, R383?

Hunterdon Hills Playhouse

Did Rex Smith ever play a dad on a sitcom/teen drama? I thought that would have been his career trajectory, like John Schneider.

Andrea McArdle turns 56 in a couple of months. Rex Smith is 63.

Wow.

Coming up later in the season at the Hunterdon Playhouse.

Gee, I wonder what the inspiration for this was?

(Check out "One Slight Hitch," the last show in the list above.

No, R373. Karen only posed topless, sort of. She had a sheer scarf over her tits, but the pervy Playboy readers could still see them. She did not show her ass or her cooter.

Did Rev. Wanda pose nude?

What the fuck is up with that theatre at r388? It’s like a season of generic, no-name rip-offs of existing shows.

There's a kind of shrine dedicated to Rex on the set of "Make Believe", but you have to sit close to see the fan pix. That "Pirates Of penzance" show card is immediately identifiable.

R387, Rex and his VPL . . .

I did a musical with Rex Smith. He was one of the stupidest people I ever met. We used to joke that if someone in the cast was fired, he would be, "Can I be fired too? Please, please? It sounds so cool!" He was very proud of his penis and would show it to anyone who asked, and quite a few who didn't. I can't imagine him in the "Me Too" movement. He honestly would not understand what he was doing wrong. He was very nice to everyone. No diva antics.

R395, Did you see his cock?

During a performance of The Scarlet Pimpernel on Broadway, his mic got turned on while he was backstage talking to someone in the company about his dick. That's a fact.

I saw THE PROM yesterday and Our Miss Brooks HAS in fact lost weight, you bitches are just hateful. He looks good. Christopher Sieber is the one who's porked up.

I saw the show in March and thought it was cute, but on second viewing I get that in the current climate it's actually an achievement. Too bad Ryan Murphy is going to butcher the film adaptation.

If Rex liked to show it so much, why didn't he pose for Playgirl?

Here’s a fun interview with Keith McDermott, an actor who was a hustler back in the 70’s. Among his lovers were Tab Hunter and Larry Kert.

I'll say this - Babs has some nice jugs. Maybe she should show them off during her "Rose's Turn." Just go full topless and show more than Gypsy would. That'd be wonderfully sad. A fully nude "Rose's Turn."

You’d really get the bittersweet sense that Gramma Rose’s time had past, as her withered dugs whirled around.

[italic]Oscar!!!

There won’t be any Gramma Babs Gypsy. She turns 78 on her next birthday. All the CGI in the world can’t fix that.

[quote]Maybe she should show them off during her "Rose's Turn." Just go full topless and show more than Gypsy would. That'd be wonderfully sad. A fully nude "Rose's Turn."

I showed a bit of panty and all you DLers got the vapours. So I don't think that's going to work.

Eccccch! NO ONE wants to see that bitch's cooter or her drawers. She's an awful person.

Judy as Rose!

Saw the sit-down company of Hamilton in San Francisco yesterday. That was... a LOT. In a good way! Several understudies were in, but you'd never have known it; the show was the star. The production is very tight and not at all tired (it's been here for months and has months to go). The audience, which, of course, skewed younger than the usual Sunday matinee crowd, was very enthusiastic and leapt to their feet at the end. (Pro tip: Get a front-row mezzanine seat, then you don't have to stand up and can still see the curtain call.) Would happily see it again, but will settle for reading Chernow's book when I can find it in a used bookstore.

Funny how Hamilton is rarely discussed here anymore now that it's not hot-ticket-du-jour and LMM has gone on to other things. Will the NY production run forever like Phantom?

We will see Babs in Gypsy around the same time we'll see her in that The Way We Were sequel she's been yapping about for years.

Extra points to R376 for using "Howchamagowcha" in a discussion of Streisand's tits. It took me a while to remember that word that appears in the song "I'd Rather Be Blue," which Babs sang on roller skates in the Funny Girl movie.

Did Lainie have silicone injections?

This will qualify as very old gossip, but I just read a fun book called "Up in the Cheap Seats." It was written by an actor named Ron Fassler who used to travel from Long Island to NYC to see Broadway shows in the sixties and seventies. He interviewed a bunch of theater people for his book and here are a few tidbits:

The only person in the original cast of Fiddler who didn't hate Zero Mostel was Austin Pendleton. He never minded when Zero screwed around with the script or stage movement. One time Mostel collapsed into Pendleton's arms and knocked the smaller actor onto his back, with Mostel wedged on top. Pendleton was whispering, "Zero, get up. I can't breathe." And Mostel said, "Shut up. I'm in my part."

Bock and Harnick started breaking up during The Apple Tree. It wasn't just the Rothschilds that broke them up, although that was the final straw.

Maureen Stapleton swore like a sailor and (jokingly?) asked Mike Nichols to fuck her.

Joseph Maher had sex with a famous NFL linebacker. (The book doesn't say who it was.) Nathan Lane adds that Maher was "always having sex with doormen and people who were totally straight. He'd be having an affair with someone who had five children. Or some bruiser--whoever."

During previews of 1776, Howard Da Silva thought the show was going to bomb and told his agent to get him out of the show. Alfred Drake visited him and said, "Howard, when we did Oklahoma! you were the dumbest fuck I ever knew. And you still are. This is the best show you've ever been in, it's the best part you've ever had, and you're brilliant! And for you to drop out of this show would be the stupidest career move you could ever make."

Sondheim said his three favorite performances in musicals were Alan Alda in The Apple Tree, Alfred Drake in Kismet, and John McMartin in Follies.

[quote]Extra points to [R376] for using "Howchamagowcha" in a discussion of Streisand's tits.

It was actually in reference to Lainie Kazan's tits, but I second the kudos for "Howchamagowcha."

"Bock and Harnick started breaking up during The Apple Tree. It wasn't just the Rothschilds that broke them up, although that was the final straw."

Professionally right? Or were they a couple and I didn't know

[quote]Nathan Lane adds that Maher was "always having sex with doormen and people who were totally straight. He'd be having an affair with someone who had five children. Or some bruiser--whoever."

I wonder what his technique was to lure them in?

He spoke Irish to them.

No one talks about Hamilton because no one cares.

Bock and Harnick were just songwriting partners.

[quote]No one talks about Hamilton because no one cares.

Apparently R407 was unaware that DL is the headquarters for irrational hatred of LMM.

R394-That's the pic on the set brick wall in "Make Believe".

Hal Prince kept Larry Kert out of jail during the run of "Company". Larry was picked up after propositioning a teen in a nearby restaurant's men's room.

A friend did a European tour of WSS with Rex. Always told the story of how Rex would swing that dick around whenever anyone came to his dressing room. Said it was a monster.

Has Rex forsaken his real estate career to return to show business?

Y'know, R401, I've always thought that it's been odd that that hasn't been attempted (unless I'm unaware). A tawdry, graceless aggressive total strip to full sagging nudity - a perversion of the moves of the tasteful ecdysiast that she'd be mimicking.

I hope Daniel Fish isn't reading this,

Isn't Rose only about 35, though?

Oh, fuck, R424. The two little girls grow up but you think their mother is frozen in time?

The comment about Larry Kert propositioning a boy in a men's room reminded me of two other musical men's room antics - William Eythe, who had the male lead in Cole Porter's "Out of This World," he was arrested in a men's room in Philadelphia during the tryout. The producer bailed him out and smoothed it over so he could open the show in NYC.

And Harold Lang was arrested in a men's room in London when he was over there in Pal Joey, and had to leave the country.

[quote]Sondheim said his three favorite performances in musicals were Alan Alda in The Apple Tree, Alfred Drake in Kismet, and John McMartin in Follies.

Is that male performances only? Or are these his three favorites out of everyone, male and female?

Those are all solid actors Sondheim listed at 411--I never saw any of those 3 performances--but including Alda as a musical "favorite" strikes me as a little odd. He's okay vocally on the OCR of THE APPLE TREE, but no better than okay. Barbara Harris stole that show, according to most others who saw it.

Some of Sondheim's pets among music theatre talent strike me as unusual, including some truly boring supporting actors that he worked with in SUNDAY, INTO THE WOODS, and other projects. Go figure.

Any update on the Colin Donnell j/o videos?

Tomorrow night is the 4th anniversary of HAMILTON's official opening. It continues to play to >100% capacity every night. Gross to date (June 2019 source): $529.3 million.

[quote]Will the NY production run forever like Phantom?

Probably. Possibly longer.

R407 Sorry, but what the hell is a sit down performance?

R431, Rimming.

R437, when a show goes into a city like LA or SF or Chicago and stays, rather than touring.

William Eythe, men’s room sex devotee.

R434, His wife, Buff Cobb, was also once married to Mike Wallace.

R433 Thank you honey

Thought the new Gwenny doco righted some of the wrongs of the horror show that was Fosse/Verdon. Great to see interviews with her son, whom she obviously had a great, and rich, and long relationship with. And fuck all Nicole FTW. Boy, she was a stunning dancer

[Quote] Oh, fuck, [R424]. The two little girls grow up but you think their mother is frozen in time?

35 at the end of the show, dear.

R427, in the book it just said “favorite performances.” In another interview he gave, I remember he especially praised Angela Lansbury’s Mrs. Lovett.

R437, She had kids at 15?

R427 He also stated that Betty Lynn and her 'jazz' interpretation of his songs belonged in the third circle of hell

[Quote] She had kids at 15?

The show doesn't start at the birth of the kids...

Rose was primarily in her 20s and 30s during the years depicted in the show. Chita confirms it in her screen test.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but judging from the ages of her daughters at the top of the show, Rose is in mid to late twenties at the top of the show, unless she got a late start with child bearing. At the end of the show, Gypsy has long been grown up. That puts Rose at about 50. Just like Merman, who was 51 when it opened.

The adult Gypsy is over 30 at the end of the show, having become famous and successful.

Someone here can't do basic math.

Where does it say she's over 30? Gypsy is still on the cusp of "moving up" at the end of show. Broadway, movies, marriage, books are yet to come. She even talks about being "a bit much" by speaking French.

R418 is apparently an obsessive Hamilton stan. We don’t care.

Hamilton will have a run like Rent. Healthy, but not Phantom. It’s too of the moment to be taken seriously for that long. Hamilton will seem really silly eventually.

How long did Rent stay the hottest ticket in town? What unseated it? Lion King?

[quote]R418 is apparently an obsessive Hamilton stan. We don’t care.

R445 thinks he speaks for everyone on DL. Take your meds, dear.

Which will close first: Hamilton? Chicago? Wicked? Mormon? Lion King?

I would guess "Chicago," R449. I can't believe the "cheesy concert version of Gwen Verdon's last excursion," as Forbidden Broadway called it, has been running since 1996. But "Book of Mormon" might run out of gas first.

I can understand Chicago appealing to tourists (both US and foreign) who know the show from the movie, but for the life of me I can't figure out why Mormon is still doing well.

Why is everyone being such a bitch to Faye? It's not as if she killed someone.

Yet, R452.

The documentary filmmaker who chronicled the recording of the "Company" cast album has died.

[quote]The documentary filmmaker who chronicled the recording of the "Company" cast album has died.

That documentary was a brilliant idea. A great time capsule of an event.

Any one know what Issac Powell posted on social media that he deleted and then apologized for ? He then deleted his accounts.

Revenge porn?

Apparently he said that Wes Tay Tay was a talented actor.

R456-maybe he recounted what Ivo's audition process is like.

r456

Did you at least see the apology before he deleted it or is this all secondhand?

[quote] never saw any of those 3 performances--but including Alda as a musical "favorite" strikes me as a little odd. He's okay vocally on the OCR of THE APPLE TREE, but no better than okay. Barbara Harris stole that show, according to most others who saw it.

One doesn't have to be a great singer to give a great performance in a musical. Rex Harrison spoke all his songs and won a Tony & and Oscar for it. It's the sum of the parts.

He wrote the apology on Tay Tay's cock, so as many people as possible could see it.

Short apology, then.

Pennebaker and Hegedus also created "Moon Over Broadway," about the journey of "Moon Over Buffalo" as it made its way to Broadway. If you want to see some show folk being BITCHY, this is the one. Everyone except Carol Burnett gets down in the mud at least once.

This is the film that killed the career of Kate Miller. Or, rather, in which she killed her own career. It's good for performers to view this one and then do some personal soul searching.

You just know that when Tay Tay tops (I know, but there’s just no way Issac tops in that relationship) he overcompensates and behaves like he is some kind of power top. Brutal, he ain’t.

[quote]Any one know what Issac Powell posted on social media that he deleted and then apologized for ? He then deleted his accounts.

He said that Vivian Vance was a limited talent.

Within 30 minutes, enraged DLers took to Twitter causing a shutdown of their East Coast servers. Twitter asked Issac to punch and delete.

Powell's Twitter is still up.

[quote]"Moon Over Broadway," about the journey of "Moon Over Buffalo" as it made its way to Broadway. If you want to see some show folk being BITCHY, this is the one. Everyone except Carol Burnett gets down in the mud at least once.

I don't remember Philip Bosco being bitchy. What did he say/do?

And yes, Kate Miller's "I think I have picture approval in my contract" pretty much killed her Broadway career. Carol Burnett should have sat her down and said, "Hon, this is your first Broadway show. Your role is a glorified walk on role. Why don't you cool the diva antics until you have the resume or talent to back it up."

Bosco was not the worst, by any measure. But Pennebaker and Hegedus were careful to give them all - except Carol - a moment looking 'difficult.

Sadly for Kate Miller, her nonsense got captured on film and EVERYONE in the business saw it. Consequently, when she shows up at an audition, the casting directors are obliged to whisper in the ear of anyone else at the table, "That's the girl from 'Moon Over Buffalo.'" And that is usually the end of that.

Has "Moon Over..." really cast that long a shadow?

He probably had the bad sense to post THIS, not realizing her tentacles reach everywhere:

[quote]Bosco was not the worst, by any measure. But Pennebaker and Hegedus were careful to give them all - except Carol - a moment looking 'difficult.

Though not difficult, they did show a clip from a performance where Carol forgot her lines and broke character. I don't remember whether it was an out of town tryout or Broadway dress rehearsal, but it was in front of an audience.

Sondheim has always been pretty adamant about his love of actors over singers, so many of his favorite performances aren't going to be from people known for their polished voices. Actors who can carry a tune really do much better things with his work than singers who believe they can act.

As for a full strip "Rose's Turn", it does seem like a tantalizing idea. It seems like something Sam Mendes would have come up with before Arthur Laurents decided to force him to stick to his mold of the show. It'd be worth a shot if an actress was willing to go there. I think the closest we'll ever get is that Tovah clip someone posted earlier.

Didn't Jane Horrocks pee in a bucket onstage for Mendes? She might disrobe as Rose. I heard her singing in AGYG was very odd.

R473, it sounds like a good idea, but unfortunately, it isn't the final scene. Gypsy finding mother naked on stage would take the show in a direction the script does not support.

Jane Horrocks as Rose is a fascinating idea. Lord knows she has the sense of humor for it and she was pretty scary at the end of that production of Cabaret she did. I never got to hear her sing in Annie Get Your Gun, but she has a nice voice in Little Voice when she does her impressions. I find it hard to believe she'd be able to do that without some legit vocal talent. It's obvious that she was directed to sound awful in Cabaret, so we can't use that as a good barometer.

A full strip in Rose's Turn is stupid. Rose didn't start out with the dream that her daughter or herself would be a stripper.

I think Rose actually stripping would work well in a film version (why neither film version has truly embraced that "Rose's Turn" is Rose's fantasy is a mystery to me. So much fun could be had with it.), but not on stage. Maybe she could flash a tit or two, but to completely disrobe would make the final scene a bit weird.

[quote]Didn't Jane Horrocks pee in a bucket onstage for Mendes?

When she played Lady MacBeth, she thought it would be a good idea to show how scared LM was and pee onstage she did.

There seem to be two schools of thought with "Rose's Turn" - that Rose is trying to prove that she can be sexier than her daughter or that Rose could have been better and classier than her daughter.

It could work best as a genuine mock of a striptease. The Imelda Staunton version seemed to do that and it was one of the few things I really liked in that production. She's pretending to go through the motions of a striptease, but sneering the entire time and not saying "look at me, aren't I sexier than my daughter?"

I never see Rose as talented, especially with the awful act(s) she builds around her kids. Of course, talent and taste aren't the same thing. I wonder if Laurents meant the "you really could have been something, Mother" line to be taken at face value or was she just being kind?

It's a stupid idea. If your clothing is not designed and constructed to come off at will, it doesn't.

Who wants to see five minutes of a middle aged woman belting while shimmying her girdle down over her ample child-bearing hips? NO ONE.

Maybe they could use the wind machine to blow her clothes off.

R436, what documentary? It was never made. I don't think they're even soliciting donations anymore because there was no interest in Gwen Verdon.

It's possible to do a striptease without removing a thing.

And, of course....

I couldn't find any video of Jane in AGYG....

R486, isn't that intro taken directly from Gypsy's act?

[quote]Gypsy finding mother naked on stage would take the show in a direction the script does not support.

Who cares what the script supports? That’s not what the theatre is about!

R484, you are very ill informed. Just do some simple Googling if you want to learn something.

That's another major question to ask when staging Gypsy - was Rose actually talented? Could she have made it if she'd had someone to push her and believe in her? Making her genuinely untalented makes her pathetic, but making her talented without the right resources makes her tragic.

I always thought it'd be interesting in a movie version to do something like that scene in Ironweed where Meryl Streep is singing in her imagination and she sounds pretty good and the audience is loving her and then it cuts to what's really happening and she sounds awful and everyone is totally bored.

R491, that matter is dealt with in the text. "If I could have been, I would have been. And that's show business."

I wish Meryl had done Rose....

She probably will do it.

Babs would shit.

R484 What are you dribbling on about?

[quote]That's another major question to ask when staging Gypsy - was Rose actually talented? Could she have made it if she'd had someone to push her and believe in her? Making her genuinely untalented makes her pathetic, but making her talented without the right resources makes her tragic.

I don't think there should be any debate on this question. If an actress and the director did want to portray Rose as "untalented," how would they do that? By having the actress perform "Rose's Turn" in a way that made the audience think, "Wow, she can't sing and she can't move on stage, she's really untalented!" And how would you have her perform the rest of the songs, the book numbers, in a way to show that she has no talent?

As for her line, "If I coulda been, I woulda been, and that's show business," I don't think that negates my opinion. Lots of talented people don't make it in show business, for lots of reasons.

But does he scream like Kermit The Frog, like Danny Torres does when he's being fucked?

[quote]r468 I don't remember Philip Bosco being bitchy. What did he say/do?

For one thing, at the 21:20 mark HERE, Bosco gets all huffy and bitchy.

[quote]"Do you not want our input? Do you not want our experience, our sense of comedy? Do you not want that? What you just told me, in so many words, that you don't want me to improvise, That was hardly the right word to use. I'm not talking about improvisation, I'm talking about the actors input in the creative process. If you consider that improvisation, then I will do everything that is written and not contribute anything at all."

STFU! And call your therapist, Mr. Overly Defensive Persecution Complex!

r497

Your comment suggests that Rose is a singer. Is she? It's a musical so the actress who plays Rose sings but I don't think that makes the character a singer. It's not like CABARET, where we see Sally perform a few numbers in the club in which she works.

[quote]Do you not want our input? Do you not want our experience, our sense of comedy? Do you not want that? What you just told me, in so many words, that you don't want me to improvise, That was hardly the right word to use. I'm not talking about improvisation, I'm talking about the actors input in the creative process. If you consider that improvisation, then I will do everything that is written and not contribute anything at all.

Bosco was absolutely right, as anyone can tell if they watch the clip and see what happens right before he said that. Robert Moore uses the word "improvised" completely incorrectly. Burnett and Bosco were making suggestions, during rehearsals, of changes in lines to improve Ken Ludwig's POS script -- they were not "improvising."

[quote]Why is everyone being such a bitch to Faye? It's not as if she killed someone.

She killed her own career, and she killed any interest anyone might have had in working with her.

[quote]Your comment suggests that Rose is a singer. Is she? It's a musical so the actress who plays Rose sings but I don't think that makes the character a singer. It's not like CABARET, where we see Sally perform a few numbers in the club in which she works.

Okay, but my question remains: If one wanted to show that Rose was untalented, how would one do that? And as for Sally Bowles, are you suggesting that she sing sing well in the book numbers but not so well in the cabaret numbers, or something to that effect? That would be a VERY strange approach.

R501, I think you mean Tom Moore.

[Quote] And as for Sally Bowles, are you suggesting that she sing sing well in the book numbers but not so well in the cabaret numbers, or something to that effect? That would be a VERY strange approach.

No. I'm saying that we see Sally perform as a singer and we can make our own minds up about her talent. It's clear cut. Not so with Rose.

I've seen multiple productions of GYPSY and I've never been concerned with whether or not she's talented. She's blind to her failings and the needs of those who lover her. That's the "tragic" part, not that she didn't make it in show business.

Gypsy isn't a tragedy.....it's a fable.

Only because June Havoc insisted on that little addition.

Whether or not Rose is untalented is something between the director and the actress. Whether Rose was talented, but was never allowed to reach her potential ,or she was given a chance and failed , is an acting choice. It will color the performance, but it does not need to be telegraphed to the audience.

Tom Moore was (and still is) a handsome man.

Who's had him?

I remember seeing "Moon Over Broadway" when it was screened at the SF Film Festival. Ken Ludwig comes across as a humorless, ugly man in it. To be honest, Tom Moore doesn't come across much better.

[quote]Why is everyone being such a bitch to Faye? It's not as if she killed someone.

[quote]r502 She killed her own career, and she killed any interest anyone might have had in working with her.

She also killed innocent little minks (probably with her bare hands)

Tyne Daly probably made the best case for a Rose who never would have made it as a star. Her Rose was crass, common, and a little white trashy. She seems to be a personal favorite to many - myself included - so she must have been on to something. It's always thrilling to hear that beautiful score sung by a wonderful set of leather lungs, but if they're not servicing the material, who cares? Betty Buckley comes to mind there. Thrilling singing, but she played the character like cold, stuffy, prudish schoolmarm. She was too classy and patrician. The best Roses are a bit trashy.

I always wondered what someone like Allison Janney would do with the role. She specializes in playing scrappy trash with a sense of humor. Her singing voice is probably no worse than Daly's if her stint in 9 to 5 is any indication.

[R501], I think you mean Tom Moore.

Yes, sorry about that.

[quote]I remember seeing "Moon Over Broadway" when it was screened at the SF Film Festival. Ken Ludwig comes across as a humorless, ugly man in it. To be honest, Tom Moore doesn't come across much better.

Agreed, 100 percent.

[quote]Whether or not Rose is untalented is something between the director and the actress. Whether Rose was talented, but was never allowed to reach her potential ,or she was given a chance and failed , is an acting choice. It will color the performance, but it does not need to be telegraphed to the audience.

I tend to agree, but one can argue that the audience can judge how much talent Rose had (if any) by the way she performs "Rose's Turn" -- or the first half of it, anyway.

[quote]I've seen multiple productions of GYPSY and I've never been concerned with whether or not she's talented. She's blind to her failings and the needs of those who lover her. That's the "tragic" part, not that she didn't make it in show business.

Again, I agree. I was just wondering: If one did want to communicate to the audience that Rose was untalented, how would one do that? By having her perform badly and move awkwardly in "Rose's Turn?"

Rosalind Russell gets flack for having her singing dubbed, but I think her characterization's superb.

I agree, R514. Everything Roz does as Rose is from the heart. Actually, I've never understood why the movie seems to be almost universally disliked, Yes, there are some questionable choices (combining Herbie and Uncle Jocko, the narration), but compared with what was done to a lot of excellent musicals when they were brought to the screen, "Gypsy" is really quite faithful to its source.

Who wouldn't be superb when swathed in Orry-Kelly designs? Even when Rose is broke and the kids don't get paid, she always appears in designer duds. At her lowest moment, when the act walks and her daughter had deserted her, Roz had monkey fur trim on her coat and a fab beaded necklace and earrings to keep her going.

A better actress would have said "NO!" to all of it.

The issue with the Gypsy film isn't really Roz, but the pacing, lack of imagination, and Rose's costumes. As others have said, why is a broke depression-era woman wearing clothes that would be better suited on Auntie Mame? For my money, Roz delivers one of the better pre-"Rose's Turn" monologues. It's just angry, bitter, and sad enough without going into over the top theatrics. It's perfectly modulated for film. Playing a role that brash and over the top on film must be like a fool's errand. How do you keep Rose's pushy and aggressive side without overdoing it and looking silly when there's a camera 3 inches away from your face?

Silly r516, not in 1962, they wouldn't!

Why didn't Ethel Merman buy the rights to GYPSY, if she wanted to do the movie so badly ... like Katharine Hepburn did with THE PHILADELPHIA STORY?

It's not like the old bitch was poor.

I think everyone (even Merman) knew that she'd never get the movie. It's why the creators were lobbying for Judy Garland. She might have been wonderful or she might have been awful (like she was in what she shot of Annie Get Your Gun), but Rose is a more complicated and nuanced character than Annie, so maybe she'd have done something wonderful with it.

I've seen every Broadway production of "Gypsy" with the exception of Merman's, and Natalie Wood remains my favorite Louise.

Laura Benanti made something of Louise that I've never seen before. She made her painfully awkward and used that awkwardness for a lot of humor throughout. It was a wonderful, funny, and moving performance.

[quote] Sadly for Kate Miller, her nonsense got captured on film and EVERYONE in the business saw it. Consequently, when she shows up at an audition, the casting directors are obliged to whisper in the ear of anyone else at the table, "That's the girl from 'Moon Over Buffalo.'" And that is usually the end of that.

Yeah, everyone in the business saw it and it was definitely a bad moment for Kate Miller. Having said that no credible casting director would waste an audition slot bringing someone in only to undermine them in the audition room. If a casting director said "oh shes the asshole from Moon Over Broadway", the producer/director client would be well within their rights to say "Oh well then why the fuck did you bring her in, risk me liking her and waste my time" So thats bullshit.

I feel badly for Kate Miller who has carried the baggage of that moment for decades now. Nobody comes off worse in that documentary than Tom Moore and Ken Ludwig. The actors are struggling with a difficult situation. I have seen MUCH worse than anything Kate Miller or Bosco or any actor feature in that documentary.

Carol B rightfully comes off as the genuine pro she is and keeps her dignity in an fucked up situation.

I think the best Gypsy was Cynthia Gibb, although she was too pretty for Louise.

Gypsy is a highly overrated show.

Your [italic]ass[/italic] is a highly overrated show!

Please. Gypsy is one of my desert-island musicals. (Follies is, too.)

I like the idea of us all being stranded on a desert island, and having to put on a show.

Damn, this should have been first...

There had better be a LOT of us stranded on that island, cuz we can’t possibly do Follies without a full chorus of showgirls and the original 26-piece orchestration!

No one cares what you think R448.

[quote]The issue with the Gypsy film isn't really Roz, but the pacing, lack of imagination, and Rose's costumes. As others have said, why is a broke depression-era woman wearing clothes that would be better suited on Auntie Mame?

The movie has its major flaws, such as placing "Small World" before "Some People," the narration -- and the fact that Roz was cast before Merman in the first place, or before Judy Garland. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the "pacing" of that movie, and I really don't agree about the costumes. Some of the costumes she wears in the early scenes look properly tacky, and actually, so does that monkey-fur thing she wears for "Everything's Coming Up Roses." As for the costumes that do look good, one can argue that Rose would spend money on clothes when she had it.

If I recall correctly, Louise making coats out of the hotel blankets was from Gypsy's book.

The worst thing about the movie was the omission of one of the better (and most popular) songs: Together. I mean even the Brady Bunch did that number.

Gypsy is definitely a slow movie. The first act only works when it's delivered at a break neck speed, only slowing down for a few moments like "Small World" or "Little Lamb." The 2nd act is when it can slow down and be a bit more introspective. I actually think the pacing of the 2nd act portion in the film is pretty good, but then again, it finally decides to stick to the stage script by that point, which was already well paced to begin with.

No one cares what you think R448. Back to the old folks home with you.

You're repeating yourself, R535, R540. Perhaps you're the one who needs to be in a home. Or did you think your retort was so clever, it deserved a second chance?

[quote]The worst thing about the movie was the omission of one of the better (and most popular) songs: Together. I mean even the Brady Bunch did that number.

The number was filmed but cut from the final print. It doesn't seem to be on YouTube anymore, but it was included as a DVD extra. Roz does her own singing throughout (at least in the outtake, there's no help from Lisa Kirk), as do Natalie Wood and Karl Malden. The vocal combination is less than ideal, which might be why it was cut despite being a popular number.

[quote]Gypsy is definitely a slow movie.

I have never felt that, and I just now watched a big chunk of the first part of the movie, and I still don't feel it. The pacing of the first scene, in particular, is very fast. So I have no idea what you're talking about.

Kate Miller's behavior in the doc was nothing more than an eye rolling moment in a documentary that was not widely seen (though it was fantastic). She did nothing more than whine to a PR flack that she didn't like her photo in front of the theater. She didn't pull a "don't you know who I am?" and there were no threats made. She wasn't even nasty about it. She doesn't spend the entire movie being a massive cunt. She probably didn't work much more because she was an unremarkable actress with a plain look in a show that did nothing for her. You could name hundreds of actors who somehow landed supporting roles in Broadway shows where the part was written rather wanly, and they had to make sure and cast an actor who wouldn't outshine the stars.

The MOB documentary shows Carol calling for an exact line at a rehearsal--not a memory lapse but a clarification to get the wording verbatim. That would happen to anyone during the rehearsal process, particularly with an ever-changing new script.

It shows Bosco going up during a preview in front of an audience (much higher stakes) and Burnett handling it in a very classy way.

One funny bit on the DVD commentary is Carol's reaction after having viewed the documentary, that she had no idea there were all these people who thought she might not be able to get through it.

The progression of the attitude toward her in the documentary is interesting, they go from wondering if she can do it and throwing shade at her body of work to thanking their lucky stars they've got her when they count on her talent and starpower to lift the whole thing and paper over the show's flaws.

The play has had a very, very successful post-Broadway life both worldwide and in stock and regional theatres. Samuel French has 25 current or upcoming productions of it listed on their website right now.

Anyone here know or has worked with the producer Jeffrey Richards? He's advertising for an assistant. Good guy or not?

[quote]r501 Bosco was absolutely right, as anyone can tell if they watch the clip and see what happens right before he said that. Robert Moore uses the word "improvised" completely incorrectly. Burnett and Bosco were making suggestions, during rehearsals, of changes in lines to improve Ken Ludwig's POS script -- they were not "improvising."

He was escalating the situation by parsing words. No one was telling him they didn't want his input.

Plus, the whole thing was grandstanding, because even if they then HAD said no one wanted his input, he never would have held it back, anyway.

R547, I get the feeling that in that moment Bosco was playing for the camera. Obviously, he knew there was a camera in the room.

Playing for the camera? Disgraceful!

The problem with the GYPSY movie is that the production is so goddamned cheap. It's all done in a studio, even the desert, and it looks like it.

The train station for "Everything's Coming Up Roses" is up against a cyclorama into which the train tracks disappear. When they get to the burlesque theater, the blind alleys that define the space are pitiful. The desert set is the absolute worst in the movie. That is an obvious reason that "Together Wherever We Go" had to be cut. It looks simply awful. The desert set is okay when everyone is shot in close up, but when the camera pulled back for the musical staging, the set is ghastly. Combine that with the fact that the song is mostly in the stage play to get the Act 2 going. The movie doesn't have an Act 2.

The producers spared every expense on this film, except for Roz Russell's lavish wardrobe. And it looks it.

The GYPSY movie looks expensive next to the Midler TV movie.

Oy.

[quote] She probably didn't work much more because she was an unremarkable actress with a plain look in a show that did nothing for her.

This. I saw the show twice and Kate Miller just didn’t register. The part was annoying and she was basically nothing in it. People making something of this nothing photo moment is ridiculous. It’s not why she didn’t have a career. Bosco was way over the top trying to match Carol and was also not good. The direction was uninspired, the writing ho hum. Carol was the only reason to go, and she was fucking fantastic and 100% delivered. She ate that stage up with her charisma, talent and charm.

I couldn’t believe what I was seeing from that pretentious asshole Tom Moore and Ludwig when I watched the movie. It was literally the polar opposite of my (and the audience’s) experience in the theater. The way they talked about her was shocking, and she was an absolute doll and carried that piece of crap on her back.

[quote]Kate Miller's behavior in the doc was nothing more than an eye rolling moment in a documentary that was not widely seen (though it was fantastic). She did nothing more than whine to a PR flack that she didn't like her photo in front of the theater. She didn't pull a "don't you know who I am?" and there were no threats made. She wasn't even nasty about it. She doesn't spend the entire movie being a massive cunt. She probably didn't work much more because she was an unremarkable actress with a plain look in a show that did nothing for her. You could name hundreds of actors who somehow landed supporting roles in Broadway shows where the part was written rather wanly, and they had to make sure and cast an actor who wouldn't outshine the stars.

It’s not her words that were the issue. She left the theatre, in costume, in the middle of a show, to complain to whoever it was that was out there talking to the camera crew. At the very least, she comes off as stupid for making that complaint in front of the cameras. Worse, it’s highly unprofessional. I sure as hell wouldn’t want her in my company.

It's a big deal for an actress to have her photo on display on a Broadway theater. A real milestone in a career, especially a young career.

It's an even bigger deal when you're naught but a bit player in the show. The producers would have sold more tickets by having more photos of Carol Burnett up so near the box office, but instead they gave the unknown actress a photo. Miss Thing didn't come off as appreciative, gracious, or wise. She was complaining about the very thing any actress would shoot her mother to get.

Your misogyny is duly noted R554 and R555.

Angie's Together at 5:40 which features a few of her patented high kicks.....

Was Angie's production profitable on Broadway? I know it was part of a tour, so the tour probably turned a profit.

That's what I assume, r559. It was a smart way of doing it.

[quote]r554It’s not her words that were the issue. She left the theatre, in costume, in the middle of a show, to complain to whoever it was that was out there talking to the camera crew. At the very least, she comes off as stupid for making that complaint in front of the cameras. Worse, it’s highly unprofessional. I sure as hell wouldn’t want her in my company.

Miss Miller's the reason The Theatre's in trouble today.

Let's be honest.

Horsepucky!

Angela's Gypsy was the first show I ever saw as a young gayling and is indelibly imprinted on my mind. I will never forget her charging up the aisle yelling, "Sing out, Louise!" Her "Rose's Turn" was chilling (like Tyne's) and well-sung (unlike Tyne's). It's still one of the most thrilling evenings I've spent in the theater.

Totally agree, r562. I wonder if Mary Louise ever went on for Angie. I'd forgotten that Maureen Moore was Dainty June and I just noticed on IBDB Patricia Richardson (Waitress - Hollywood Blonde) was understudy Louise!

Mary Louise Wilson is very good on the bootleg recording. She doesn't do any of the squeaky voice stuff that's become almost de rigeur when an actress plays Tessie.

[quote]The vocal combination is less than ideal, which might be why it was cut despite being a popular number.

I didn't work cheap. If they wanted me to voice one of the most popular songs in Broadway history, they were going to have to pay!! After all, a girl's gotta eat. And if they didn't want to pay, they could have always got Andy Williams who voiced Betty Bacall's singing.

Lisa, Lisa, Lisa!

You’re a real gypsy, Rose-Louise....

[quote]The desert set is okay when everyone is shot in close up, but when the camera pulled back for the musical staging, the set is ghastly.

I agree, well, it was just ghastly.

[quote]The play has had a very, very successful post-Broadway life both worldwide and in stock and regional theatres. Samuel French has 25 current or upcoming productions of it listed on their website right now.

I'm very sorry to hear that. It's a POS play, and Ludwig doesn't deserve to earn ANY money from it. Can't imagine what a dire experience at the theater it would be without people like Burnett and Bosco in the cast.

[quote]He was escalating the situation by parsing words. No one was telling him they didn't want his input.

Bosco wasn't "parsing words," he was objecting to Moore saying that Bosco and Burnett were "improvising" when that wasn't what they were doing AT ALL. You are an idiot.

[quote]She left the theatre, in costume, in the middle of a show, to complain to whoever it was that was out there talking to the camera crew.

The fellow she complained to outside the theater was press agent Bob Fennell, who sadly died young in 2006.

[quote]Anyone here know or has worked with the producer Jeffrey Richards? He's advertising for an assistant. Good guy or not?

Years ago, he physically assaulted at least one of the people who worked for him. As far as I know, there have been no reports of recent incidents, so maybe it's now under control through medication.

I'm assuming that dance break in "Together" was created for the Lansbury revival? I can't imagine Merman out there kicking up her legs.

And I'm surprised to hear how pitchy Rex Robbins is in the song. Maybe it was an off performance for him. Didn't he do full front nudity in some play? Maybe "The Changing Room" or something?

Those kicks are my trademark, r570!

Lucy even managed to do some impressive high kicks in the title number of the MAME movie. Of course, she was holding on for dear life to the chorus girls on either side of her while she was doing them.

[quote] R569 The fellow [Kate Miller] complained to outside the theater was press agent Bob Fennell, who sadly died young in 2006.

Was it from the near-unspeakable vitriol she heaped upon him? It was terrifying.

#Justice4Bob

With that frozen, grimace-y smile on her mug, r572!

[quote]Lucy even managed to do some impressive high kicks in the title number of the MAME movie.

Lucy was a old chorus girl from way back. She may not have been a real “dancer” per se, but she moved extremely well, as multiple episodes of “I Love Lucy” showed (the Van Johnson episode, the one where she danced with the dummy of Ricky, the tango, etc). The cigarettes and booze had taken a real toll by the time of Mame (she was 61 when it filmed), but she was still able to pull it together for the dancing, far better than for the singing or even acting.

Why was this thread greyed out? What on earth was offensive enough for someone to F&F it?

[quote]The cigarettes and booze had taken a real toll by the time of Mame (she was 61 when it filmed)

Not to quibble, but Lucy was born in 1911 and would have been 62 when "Mame" was filming in 1973.

... and none of her friends said she looked 20 years younger, R577.

MAIMED.

R563, in Mary Louise Wilson’s autobiography she talks about going on for Lansbury in Gypsy only once, at a matinee in LA before the production went to Broadway. She writes that she was so terrified she doesn’t remember a thing about it but it apparently went well.

A friend of mine saw Miss Wilson's sole turn as Rose (as described by [R580]), and he says she terrific -- even (heresy!!) better than Angela. ("She didn't do any of that actressy shit" was his comment.)

I'm almost afraid to ask....

Have we created a Theatre Gossip #365 (like days in a year)?

Will some kind stranger link?

Can we call it the Theatre Gossip Faye Dunaway No. 2 Edition, or something?

Sorry, r577, but you’re wrong. Mame started filming in January, 1973. Lucy, born Aug 6, 1911, turned 61 five months prior. It had wrapped by the time she turned 62 in Aug ‘73.

It was supposed to start filming in early 1972, but when Lucy broke her leg, they pushed it back a year, though Lucy started working with Onna White on strengthening her leg a few months prior to filming.

Why would we do that, r583? One Faye thread title was more than enough.

^^ Don't you FUCKIN' tempt me.

I'LL DO IT!

Poor Lucy looks at least seventy in every frame of "Mame" and in many scenes even older. I can't believe she was only sixty-one, that's not that old, but I think of her as elderly in it! It's just not a great fit and Lucy just isn't very good in it overall.

I saw "Moon Over Buffalo" and it's a ghastly, unfunny show. Bosco was far better than he needed to be and Carol Burnett was loud, big and acted desperate for laughs that just weren't in the script. They were game, but it was a dreary night. I thought the rest of the cast was uniformly awful too, especially an actor named Andy Taylor.

Years later I opened my Playbill in Boston and saw he was playing Leo Bloom in "The Producers" tour, and prepared myself for a lousy performance. Instead he was incredibly good, giving a performance Matthew Broderick wished he could have given on Broadway. It reminded me that a lousty script tends to sink everyone in the show!

[quote]It was supposed to start filming in early 1972, but when Lucy broke her leg, they pushed it back a year, though Lucy started working with Onna White on strengthening her leg a few months prior to filming.

Always thought that was silly even as a kid, you're preparing to star in a multi-million dollar movie, the biggest project in your career and at 60 you decide it's a good idea to go skiing.

Gary should have talked her out of it.

Here's the new one, but don't head over till this one is finished ten posts from now.

Bajour, dammit!