Ryan Murphy’s THE POLITICIAN (Netflix)

Love the new do!

Where are the reviews?

This sounds like another expensive shit show from Netflix.

The darkly comic show stars Ben Platt as Payton Hobart, a wealthy student from Santa Barbara, CA, who has known since age 7 that he’s going to be president of the United States. But first he’ll have to navigate the most treacherous political landscape of all: Saint Sebastian High School. To get elected student body president, secure a spot at Harvard and stay on his singular path to success, Payton will have to outsmart his ruthless classmates without sacrificing his own morality and carefully crafted image.

Described as a one-hour comedy with social commentary, the series also stars Gwyneth Paltrow, Jessica Lange, Zoey Deutch, Lucy Boynton, Bob Balaban, David Corenswet, Julia Schlaepfer, Laura Dreyfuss, Theo Germaine, Rahne Jones and Benjamin Barrett.

I didn't realize Ben Platts character was in high school.

[quote]Starring Ben Platt

PASS.

[quote]With Judith Light, Bette Midler AND Jessica Lange

Oh, who am I kidding, of course I'll watch. Here's the main thread for the show.

They should just call this “NEPOTISM REIGNS.”

Ben is playing a high school student? Nobody is going to buy that.

That’s supposed to read “G. Carteris.”

R5 My sentiments exactly, lol. They’d better give us some juicy scenes between those last three.

Is Platt playing straight on the show?

R10 I have a hunch his character will be gay.

Ben must have flunked 5 or 6 times. To be a high schooler.

He works as a high schooler from the back row of a theater... why not put him in college or something?

Ay, si.

Which role does Anna Wintour play, OP?

The kindly grandmotherly figure from next door?

Ms. Wintour is a fan of Lange’s.

It sounds like Ben Platt may be playing a Tracy Flick-type character which could be fun. I’ll check it out.

He couldn’t give Lea Michele a part in this?

R18 Thank God. The leads are bad enough.

I’m here for Lange, Midler and Light.

R17 First thing I thought too, very Election. Will be hard to top that perfect flick

I need Lange.

Confession: aside from the three legendary old broads, this cast BORES me.

Yes, you've posted that several times in this short thread already r22.

R23. “Several times”? I only alluded to it @ R19.

Don’t test me...

Ben Platt is a rough 25. I thought he was at least 30

^^If Ben was closeted or straight you’d be drooling all over him

Love it!

THR interview

I expect lots of gay in this show. Don't let me down Ryan Murphy.

Who's the director? Ryan's shows are high pop concept productions but direction is wildly spotty. Must be because of how fast they're churned out compared to the time it takes to make a decent feature film.

Ok, this screenshot has me interested

He looks too old. At least Puck and Finn somewhat resembled teenagers

Interview clips: “The Politician in 30 Seconds”

Can’t wait.

“Watching screeners for Netflix's #ThePolitician and I mean, LOOK. AT. HUH. Jessica Lange as Dusty Jackson. LUVHUH.

"Ryan Murphy's 'The Politician' offers a rare glimpse into just what it takes to make a politician." Also, one hell of a cast. More later. L”

Wasn't Streisand supposed to be in this? Did Midler replace her?

Ben Platt is adorable. He give gives me a boner.

Apparently this wont be as riske as Murphys other shows cause he wanted it to be a show families can watch.

R38 basically Glee 2.0 in some ways

The love for her from critics watching “The Politician” screeners is starting to trickle in.

Lange replaced her r36. Murphy originally approached Streisand for the role but she didnt want the commitment.

January Jones needs another occupation.

R26: Exactly, the moment you came out (and Ben even came as gay, if he came as queer or in the expectrum it would be worse) you are automatically a worst actor and you look like crap. Coming out as gay make you automatically undesirable for DL queens

Nah. Miles Heizer's boyfriends are repeatedly praised here for their ability to play "straight".

Trailer

Martina Navratilova? Why?

The dude kissing Platt is really attractive.

I can’t, 😂

R47 That's David Corenswet

Platt too old; story and aesthetic feels like cobbled together bits and pieces we've seen in TV and movies already.

Is this supposed to have a musical aspect? Thought it was but there was none of that in the trailer.

R51, isn’t that the Streep/Paltrow project?

R52 You mean the Prom? No, I just remember early reports saying it would.

Aside from Jessica Lange's killer lines, I wasn't feeling that trailer at all. And Ben Platt is just... why?

But whatever, it's a super gay production, so I hope it does well. I'm not a monster.

I'm not too sure...

Yuck, Paltrow.

What kind of surname is "Cornsweat"??

Paltrow makes me wince...

Lange is trending.

😂!!!!

Yas, Mama. Work for the gays.

You might have your trends set to L.A. because Lange isn't trending nationally right now.

Please stop trying to make Ben Platt happen.

Oh hell no 😂

Ben Platt has already happened

Ew, Gwyneth. Can’t Ryan Murphy find fascination with NATALIE DORMER or someone the world would love to see?

I'm also confused about the musical aspect? Wasn't it supposed to be a musical. I know Platt, Paltrow, etc. all sing and that was why Murphy was gunning for Streisand in the Lange role for so long. I see no trace of a musical number anywhere. That's odd.

It looks fun, though. Hopefully, Murphy can keep the magic alive for a limited series since we know his track record for long running series is lousy.

They may be trying to sell the "glitzy stars in a campy story" aspect of the show in Trailer #1 and the "glitzy stars sing and dance" aspect of the show in Trailer #2.

R66 apparently he wants each season to raise the level of office this kid is running for, actually leading to him running for the US presidency.

When are they launching the second trailer?

A gay president, like that would ever happen!

R70. If gets a final season it doesnt mean he actually wins. I doubt he wins every election he runs for if it gets more seasons. I think this premise is neat.

Vox:

[quote]Like Glee, the tone of The Politician is all over the place. But also like Glee, there are moments of stark, surprising sincerity that cut through the noise.

[quote]We’ve only seen the first three episodes (out of 10 in season one), but, again, the tone is all over the place. For every moment that works, there’s one that really, really doesn’t, and The Politician’s idea of political commentary is probably best summed up by its opening credits, which suggest the central character is a literal empty suit. If that’s all the show has to say about American politics … well, we’ve heard that before.

Hm...

[quote]...there are moments of stark, surprising sincerity that cut through the noise.

Lange’s fourth or fifth Emmy depending on how this weekend goes.

If it’s like the first season of Glee, I’ll watch. The first season was full of the witty dark comedy Ryan used to put in American Horror Story before the show went to shit. If it’s really playing to a family audience and isn’t as cynical as the trailer implied, I won’t be watching.

It sucks that Platt and his best friends from DEH are playing the main characters. The rest of the show looks great, but I really find the DEH tribe insufferable. They all reek of nepotism and I get the feeling that they’re all insufferable divas with mediocre talent who were raised to think they’re hot shit.

Agreed, R75.

Also, link to article.

More bad acting from January Jones? Great.

WaPo:

[quote]Ryan Murphy (along with co-creators Brad Falchuk and Ian Brennan) makes his Netflix debut with this Wes Anderson-like, 1-percenter dramedy about Payton Hobart (“Dear Evan Hansen’s” Ben Platt), a teenager obsessed with becoming U.S. president. His ambitions currently rest on two hurdles: getting into Harvard, which he insists on doing without his parents (Bob Balaban and Gwyneth Paltrow) buying his way in; and winning the student council presidency at his fancy private school, where his campaign advisers calculate his every move, including his choice of a cancer-stricken running mate, Infinity Jackson (Zoey Deutch), who lives with her controlling, greedy grandmother (Jessica Lange). It’s a hoot, but just know that Murphy’s biggest adversaries — tone control and plot discipline — have come along for the ride.

"It’s a hoot, but just know that Murphy’s biggest adversaries — tone control and plot discipline — have come along for the ride." haha! Perfectly stated. You could say that about all Murphy's work. When he's good, he's great, but when he suddenly discards plot threads or changes character motivations for no reason, he's awful. The first season of Glee was primed to be dark comedy gold and it dropped the ball midway through just so they could squeeze in as many songs as they could to sell more albums.

Why is Judith Light not listed on IMDB even after they announced (at the same time as Bette Midler) that she was doing the show? She filmed scenes (Bette and Judith had a back and forth on Twitter) so what happened? Did Judith's character get cut?

R80 I doubt it. Light, though fantastic, isn’t considered a “draw”. I’m sure they’ve just been late in updating.

All I know is that Murph better have written some killer scenes between Midler, Light and Lange. A combo like that is likely to save, carry and catapult ANY show, even a Ryan P. Murphy shitshow.

Lange looks AMAZING.

Tweet has several new pics ^

I’m ready for this disaster because of Mama Lange.

She’s looking FIERCE in the stills. Very Dusty Springfield meets Meryl Streep in Marvin’s Room with a dash of Jane Fonda in”The Morning After”.

I need this now.

[quote] Which role does Anna Wintour play, OP?

The neighborhood drag queen with a heart of gold.

Dusty!

So, let me guess how the thread discussion for this show will go:

- This show is shit, because Jessica Lange is barely in it.

- The show needs more Jessica Lange!

- This show is shit. Jessica Lange was sooooo much better in ... / What you're on about? Jessica Lange's best performance was in ...

- JESSICA LANGE! JESSICA LANGE! JESSICA LANGE!

- Jessica Lange totally killed that scene!

- Is Jessica Lange in this? If not I won't bother.

Basically, R87!

I’m still confused, is this a musical or not, and if yes can Jessica sing or are they still using Barbra’s voice and she’ll lip-sync ala Natalie Wood?

P.S. I think It’s been somewhat confirmed Lange will only be in season 1. She called it a “small part”.

R89 I don’t think it’s a musical. I think there will be a few numbers a la Freak Show, and I think Bette Midler will be doing the singing.

They’re going to have ugly assed Ben and not have him sing? They should have had Froy if singing isn’t part of it.

The Politician premieres on Netflix on Friday, September 27.

R91 God, I hope not.

New pics! Slideshow below.

[quote]'Very, very exciting. I'm a big fan of her as an actor and also as a photographer, so getting to, like, just interrogate her and fangirl over Her Langeness was a great, great blessing in my life.' - Zoey Deutch on working with Jessica Lange in #ThePolitician

A little off-topic but why does Anna Wintour still have bangs? Does she have a swastika carved into her forehead or lightning bolt scar or something?

First extended clip of Lange.

Love that clip! Lange is going to rock this!

Lange is going to kill this. That clip, though.

r99 Branding. You don't mess with the formula.

Reviews are still under embargo, but I've heard a pretty mixed take from someone with screeners, so I'm adjusting my expectations accordingly.

R104 All of the reviews for Lange have been great.

The New York Post, however, was not kind to Lange:

[quote]Lange’s campy pastiche as Dusty Jackson, a white-trash mama who thinks she’s fooling the world about her daughter’s illness in “The Politician.” Since this is a Ryan Murphy series, everything is overdone, and Lange, who enjoyed a comeback with Murphy’s “American Horror Story,” doesn’t let her employer down. She cooks bologna cups for dinner, shrieks like a banshee when Infinity (Zoey Deutch) is hospitalized and practically breathes fire into the face of Payton Hobart (Ben Platt), who’s running for office at the high school he and Infinity attend. Invalid Infinity (see the irony in that?) is his running mate.

“Campy pastiche” is an art form Lange has honed exclusively for Murphy during their nearly decade long collaboration. No one does it better, either. In fact, Lange infuses Murphy’s colorful and avant-garde creations for with such force and conviction one can even say she has created a whole new sub-genre: Oscar Camp.

The one exception to the rule was her brilliant and heartbreaking turn as Joan Crawford in which she managed to fuse aspects of herself, Crawford and even Faye Dunaway’s brilliant campy pastiche take on Crawford into something as grand as an opera and as delicate as china.

I expect that the tattooed and bedazzled Dusty Jackson will be another grand turn for the books by one of the Great Dames of acting.

Besides, who even takes the New York Post seriously.

P.S. His review of Meryl in BLL is even more dismissive:

[quote]Lange, an Emmy favorite, will be in the running for the 2020 awards, when she’ll likely be up against her old Oscar nemesis, Meryl Streep, the crazy mama on “Big Little Lies.” In that series, Munchausen syndrome by proxy wasn’t her character’s problem: Determined to declare her daughter-in-law (Nicole Kidman) an unfit mother, she was just plain crazy.

[quote]He found Paltrow to be “wonderful” though, and praises his co-star Jessica Lange’s performance in the show as “simply operatic.” Indeed, her wig alone deserves an Emmy.

Aren't crazy mothers the most interesting roles to play, though?

[quote]All of the reviews for Lange have been great.

I was talking about the series as a whole, not Lange in particular. I'm sure she's the best thing about it.

R109 True. Really, the only great thing he’s managed to pull off is Feud, for which he had about 50% control of.

One can make an argument for American Crime Story, but I didn’t care for either season. The rest of his work meh. Pose is good but doesn’t feel like it does justice to the reality of the subject matter.

Crime Story was excellent. Both seasons.

I can't bring myself to care about either GOOP or Ben Platt, but of course I'll watch for Lange and because I want to support gay storytelling. We bitch and moan that there aren't enough of those, and then we don't watch them when they're actually airing.

Interesting tidbit: Ben Platt is the son of producer Marc Platt, who produced “Blue Sky”!and whom Lange thanks in her Oscar speech.

His five kids were not all with the same woman, correct? Because what the hell else could explain this disparity?

R114 I have no idea, but both Marc and that Greek God looking son of his in the pic you posted are HOT.

Ben is interesting looking...

[quote]So #JessicaLange is just as exceptional as you'd expect in #ThePolitician - @DavidOpie, Deputy TV Editor @DigitalSpy

New trailer with Judith Light and Bette Midler. This is going to be fun.

So the rumours are true - it's a bit of a turd.

Even the more negative reviews don't tell us anything we don't know. For every strength of a Ryan Murphy show, there are 5 weaknesses. It's become his endearing quirk.

From the Hollywood Reporter on Lange:

In the big picture, the collaborations between Lange and Murphy have been predominantly award-worthy highlights, but this performance is a broad miscalculation at every turn, one of several turns that teeter into cartoonish with no grounding at all. Only a midseason episode penned by Brennan and focusing on one of the students outside of this electoral tyranny projects real empathy and even that is of a sour sort.

Why is it too much trouble for Anna Wintour to take off her dark glasses for a photo?

Netflix must be pissed. They spent a lot of money on Ryan Murphy and his first project with them is a turkey.

r120 Damn, that's rough. But of course he'd go full cartoon with his toys when given all the money in the world, so why am I even surprised.

goop? No thank you.

They ran a preview during the Emmys.

DaFUQ Lange’s face????

More on Lange:

[quote]Lange, sporting off-the-shoulder sweaters and teased blonde hair, is thoroughly enjoyable as another one of Murphy’s brassy, tippling dames. - Entertainment Weekly

[quote]There are lots of great characters to be found on the fringes, especially the great Jessica Lange as Infinity’s pushy grandma Dusty, who doesn’t hesitate to use her granddaughter’s cancer diagnosis to jump the reservation line at Olive Garden. - TVLine

[quote]Jessica Lange is striking as [Dusty Jackson]. - BBC

[quote]A side plot about Payton’s running mate, the chronically ill Infinity Jackson (Zoey Deutch), quickly goes off the rails; though it’s fun to see Jessica Lange play her deranged grandma, the resemblance to Hulu’s The Act (and the true story it’s based on) falls somewhere between parody and appropriation. - TIME

[quote]Murphy concocts one implausible scenario after the next to put Platt’s pipes on display. Similarly, he struggles to find things for Lange to do, so he gives her a lot to react to, at increasing levels of scenery-chewing insanity. - IndieWire

[quote]If Jessica Lange’s residency as the Looming Evil in Ryan Murphy productions ever feels akin to typecasting, it’s likely because there are few actresses that have honed the slick drawl and glare of dubious intent to spine-tingling perfection. As Infinity’s grandmother Dusty, Lange blurs the lines between unhealthy love and toxic self-interest while perpetuating a wholly relatable “eat the rich” mentality. Does she ultimately need to be defeated? Sure, but not without stealing at least three more scenes on her potential way out, please and thank you. - AV Club

[quote]As if one Hollywood titan wasn’t enough, Murphy signed up Lange - who previously played Joan Crawford in Feud and starred in American Horror Story - to play the unstoppable Dusty Jackson. Dusty is the grandmother of Infinity, a cancer-suffering teen picked to be Payton’s running mate in the school election. At first, she seems every inch the overprotective, if opportunistic, grandma. But as her family life slowly unravels, so does she, with Lange becoming increasingly maniacal and unhinged. Expect to see her on plenty of Best supporting actress shortlists next year. - The Evening Standard

[quote]I can definitely see folks being big fans of the performances given by Gwyneth Paltrow and Murphy's more frequent collaborators like Jessica Lange and Dylan McDermott. - CinemaBlend

[quote]Murphy, Brad Falchuk, and Ian Brennan have fully capitalized on their arsenal of top-notch talent to make the first season, particularly when it comes to Gwyneth Paltrow, Jessica Lange, and Zoey Deutch. All three of these actresses are at their best in The Politician. Lange embodies a level of camp that will make any American Horror Story fan swoon. - Decider

[quote]Jessica Lange [goes] full monster mom. - Thrillist

[quote]Jessica Lange, who I will worship until the end of time, work[s] a room. It’s Jessica Lange going to bat against these other incredible partners. - Hypable

[quote]A maniacal and enthralling Jessica Lange. - Exclaim!

[quote]Memorable performances abound, from Gwyneth Paltrow as Georgina, Payton’s rich but joyless mother, to Jessica Lange as Dusty, Infinity’s manipulative grandmother. - Slant

[quote]The only real competition for plaudits is Lange and Paltrow. Even when they’re stuck in one mode, they have the wherewithal to still make a meal out of it. Lange is allowed to go full lowkey-villain as we’ve seen in, say, American Horror Story: Asylum, as the obviously manipulative grandmother of Deutch’s character. She’s trashy, she’s cheeky, she’s chewing up the scenery when she can and please, sir, may I have some more! - Collider

So, Light and Midler only appear in the season finale, which teases their return for season 2. Honestly, I’m only here for those two and Lange.

I don’t expect much else.

[quote]Murphy concocts one implausible scenario after the next to put Platt’s pipes on display.

Wait, so that creature will sing as well on this show? Fuck this, I'm out.

R128 😂

[quote]There are some fun casting choices, not least Jessica Lange as Infinity’s ferocious “Nana”, part carer, part dragon, with a keen eye on Payton’s wallet. It’s a rip-roaring turn from Lange as a Southern belle gone to seed. - Financial Times

There is just something so annoying about ben platts face and singing voice.

[quote]Jessica Lange [is] excellent. - GQ

[quote]The incomparable Jessica Lange in particular is a goldmine for soundbites and ridiculously quick wit, which somehow makes you love her character even if Dusty is actually an abhorrent human being.

r132 Yeah, he's pretty high on my irrational hate list. And this has nothing to do with him being a successful homo. Trust me, that list is ALL straight people otherwise.

He does seem a bit irritating, R135.

Martina Navratilova plays a horse trainer who is the love interest of GOOP’s character. So will viewers get the opportunity to see the tennis legend getting physical with Gwyneth Paltrow?

R137 unlike a lot of his shows I read this one is very "family friendly". At least Murphys version of that anyway.

The New Yorker gave it a great review? Shocked.

[quote]Jessica Lange plays a platinum-blonde monster mom who’s like a cross between Patricia Arquette in “The Act” and Diane Ladd in “Wild at Heart.”

Wasn’t Glee “family friendly”? Popular was as well.

R140 yes cause it was on network TV. I guess this will be like network TV in its rating and content, unlike Murphys shows on FX.

Jessica is getting lukewarm reviews for this.

The whole show is getting average or lukewarm reviews.

Lange is getting lukewarm warm to great reviews.

[quote]I don’t mean to say that “The Politician” is dull, as Payton locks horns with his twin brothers or his adversary, Astrid (Lucy Boynton); the show races forward, with some jokes working — Jessica Lange’s over-the-top turn as Infinity’s trashy, manipulative grandmother comes to mind — and others failing and falling by the wayside. Entire characters — Astrid, for example — seem to exist solely to play a token role in Payton’s journey, never developing into fully dimensional people. - Boston Globe

New interview.

This show was originally envisioned for network TV r141, and even though it ended up being a Netflix product it is definitely still geared to be more in the vein of Glee than AHS.

[quote]The show-stealing performances from Jessica Lange and Gwyneth Paltrow really make it a fun watch. - Business Insider

R148 I’m sorry, but why would I look to something called Business Insider for my entertainment review purposes?

R149 True, LoL.

Word on the street is that Jessica Lange brings the show down. She's just not good in this. Murphy should have offered Streisand more money.

The premise is so uninteresting.

As if Barbra Streisand has made a film better with her appearance since The Way We Were.

Just finished the first episode and gurl, is this show for real? Haven't seen a bigger pile of crap since... well, the latest episode of AHS. I have so much second-hand embarrassment for everyone involved right now. 😬

NPR gave it a very unflattering review today.

[quote]Word on the street is that Jessica Lange brings the show down.

NPR says she is the only good thing about it.

They said the show doesn't know what the hell it wants to be.

Disastrous. I barely made it through the pilot before resorting to skipping through most scenes to get to Mama’s bits. Of course, she was fun, fierce and poignant. And of course, I ended up wishing the show had been centered around her.

This is a new low for Murphy in a career made by trashy work - minus Feud: Bette and Joan, which is his masterwork as producer and director - but he’s always made his trash tantalizingly fun. This is not.

I’m sure Mama will still nab an Emmy nomination in Supporting but I almost don’t want her to. Not for this.

Any word on Bette Midler's performance? I haven't heard a word about her.

[quote] Murphy should have offered Streisand more money.

Yes, that would have had the audience just swarming in had she been in it.

How is that Ben Platt has Greta Thunberg face?

Ben has a face for theater. The back row.

r161 Harsh but true.

Yeah the River guy is like an 8 and Platt is a 5 at best. Would never happen.

A part of me really wants to see Streisand as a psychotic grandmother faking her granddaughter's illness to get ahead. I sorta thing this was Murphy's way of offering her a more age appropriate Mama Rose so she could stop obsessing about Gypsy. Streisand even said she liked the script. Has she ever played an intentionally unlikable character before? She could have gotten accolades. Seeing Streisand doing this would have been an event. We've seen Lange play these kinds of roles for the past decade.

R164 Lange is different here, though. She brings the gravitas, of course, but is much funnier and more self aware than she’s been in her other roles for Murphy.

I honestly don’t think this would’ve done Babs any favors. Lange is at a point in her career where she can easily weather these storms. Babs is not.

Streisand's issue is that she's lazy as fuck. She probably asked all her scenes to be shot in one day on a green screen from her house.

I'm only watching it to see Dylan McDermott. Hoping he's in it a lot.

I finished the pilot not too long ago... a couple takeaways:

- I'm surprisingly buying maternal GOOP. Can't say what it's about, but I'm feeling it.

- Ben Platt is clearly talented, and like... whatever about how attractive he is or isn't, but for some reason he's preventing me from emotionally investing in the show. I remember liking him when he was like... awkwardly cute and chubby in that first Pitch Perfect, but ever since it's like he's being formed and fashioned into some actor that I'm supposed to care about. Also, with his dad's connections he just feels like an elevated theater kid.

- I hope Sufjan was paid very well to let them use "Chicago" as the fucking theme song. What the hell?

- I'm sure there's more to Lange's performance... she's only in two scenes, and she's fine, but I'm not flipping over her yet.

- This is a hodgepodge of styles... predominantly I'm getting a lot of Wes Anderson... a lot of Tenenbaums energy... from the colors to the composition to the score... especially the score. Then there's a Max Fischer from Rushmore quality to Platt's character... not to mention the often mentioned Election. Thing is, so far, it's doing none of those as well as they did.

- The twins are hot... that over the top, in sync high five into the pool was pretty transcendent I have to say... just like... peak absurd masculinity. Might watch just for them.

- Is the show actually going to explore the sociopathy of the political mind? Like... is it ultimately going there, or will that thread be abandoned? Feels pretty weighty for something that ultimately feels kinda slight.

I'll probably continue because... why not... but... eh... Ryan Murphy projects make me wary.

Ben Platt doesn't look like a highschooler, but neither does anyone else.

Also very much not a teenager River is such a young Matt Bomer, of course Ryan couldn't resist casting him.

I'm not bothered by them not looking like teens, it's been happening since Grease. Most of these actors are in their mid to late 20s.

David Corenswet will be the breakout star of the show. He'll be a movie star in no time. Murphy already gave him an other role in his next show. In other words, he show's peen, at least to Ryan.

Ben Platt is still singing, wtf. Ryan Murphy, we really didnt need the entire song!

That scene felt like an excuse to let Pratt sing. I wasn't sure whether that was vanity on behalf of the character, the actor, or both.

I don't mind letting Platt sing, but it went on for so damn long.

Agreed, R171.

Also, I’m loving Lange more and more. She’s so captivating.

I didn't find David to be anything special at all, but I knew the thirsties would go crazy over him.

David Corenswet has the same manager as Ashton Kutcher and Madonna, Jason Weinberg. He'll do fine, though he should have removed the swet from his name .

Ashton Kutcher, Madonna, and Jason Weinberg - the preeminent actors of our time. Just what David aspires to, I'm sure.

How is a 70 year old Judith Light a viable vice presidential candidate?

Trump, Biden, and Sanders are all 70s+.

Just started the pilot, I’m about ten minutes in, and WOW Ben Platt was not meant for screen acting. He’s super hammy, I’m talking William Shatner hammy. You can say it’s a character choice, but something tells me you’re wrong and that he’s like this all the time. That kind of extreme expressiveness and physicality might work for stage acting but on screen it makes him look like the worst actor in the cast.

Agreed. Was not feeling his exaggerated, manic energy.

[quote]That kind of extreme expressiveness and physicality might work for stage acting

Spastic?

I know the show isn’t going for realism, but Payton’s naivety really takes me out of the story. I get that he thinks he’s going to become president, which makes sense because he’s clearly delusional and has mental health issues, but do others really think he has a chance or are they just lying to him? He’s not slick enough or charming enough to be a viable presidential candidate, everything he says and does comes off as smarmy and plastic. People don’t want to vote for someone they think is fake. Why hasn’t anyone told him that?

R183 I was going to say “hyper and dramatic” but yes, spastic works.

[Quote]but do others really think he has a chance or are they just lying to him?

Well he is a high school student, he isn't planning the Iowa caucus with David Axelrod right now.

And that he can come across a fake was brought up several times in the pilot alone. John Edwards was fake as fuck and made it as a VP candidate.

Look out, Mary Louise. You got some Emmy competition.

Platt looks like a Who from the live action How The Grinch Stole Christmas and Murphy is trying to make us believe that a hunk like Corenswet would be into him? Beauty isn’t skin deep but looks do matter, especially when your personality is as shitty as Payton’s.

So is the last episode really the first episode of season two? And did RM do this to ensure there would be a season two, knowing season one wasn’t strong enough?

Well River was a closeted high school student, Platt was there, obviously gay as well and they were already in his bedroom.

Yes the looks are mismatched, but it isn't like they met at a gay club. Sometimes you go with the option you have.

The trans guy sticks out like a sore thumb. The second I saw him on screen I knew something was off.

How’s Rami Maleks girl in this?

[quote][R164] Lange is different here, though.

Nah, she's giving the EXACT SAME PERFORMANCE here that she's been giving in everything for the last 20 years. The breathless line readings coupled with righteous anger. There is no difference between her performance in HUSH vs. AHS vs. FEUD vs. THE POLITICIAN.

It's Contance Langdon and Fiona Goode with higher hair and maybe a different brand of cigarettes.

Lange is a terrific actor...at playing the Lange character.

Not every actor can disappear into different roles.

I have a feeling r195 is speaking about me.

Oh trust me dear G, no one is ever speaking about you.

Lucy Boynton gives the best performance in this series. She’s perfect in this.

Platts singing voice is beautiful!

Reposting from my other thread:

It does sting to watch Lange in projects that are beneath her, like this one. It’s especially annoying when considering how brilliant she is.

I’m rewatching her scenes in this and she’s just so damn captivating. She manages to turn a shoddily written character into someone funny, alluring, surprising and fascinating to watch. She easily transcends the limited quality and actually shines brightly. Hey, it’s the story of her career, lol.

I think what bothers me most about this project is that it doesn’t live up to Lange’s work, nor that of her co-stars Deutch, who is also fantastic, and - shocker! - Paltrow, who manages to be enigmatic yet strangely seductive here. Of course, the fact that an AMAZING Bette Midler and Judith Light don’t share scenes with the aforementioned three doesn’t help. At all.

This really had potential, and most of the ladies truly brought their A-game and came to play. Too bad their wasn’t much of a sandbox or playground to play in.

I don't know why people are shocked Paltrow is good. Yes it is easy to hate her personality, but bitch has always had talent on screen.

I am watching now and love Gwyneth in this, but am confused by the love of Lange. She’s being the same character she’s been over and over. The praise for her needs to end.

Judith Light can do no wrong.

Zoey Deutch is always wonderful! A very charming and charismatic actress.

No one here mentions Lucy Boynton, who gives the most perfect portrayal of a cold bitch. She’s the best performance in the Pilot episode.

Mickey Rourke hated Paltrow on the set of Iron Man 2.

GOOP to Mickey:

R193 You’re obviously a hater, dear, or you wouldn’t be so well-versed In her work. You’re probably a love/hate/secretly love watcher and the fact that she towers over whatever creature you consider a fave stings a bit too much.

Also, you listed some wonderfully varied performances as if proving a point outside of her being brilliant. Seems to me that you mistake her innate charisma with her technical work as an actress.

She’s hilariously arch in “Hush”, with a pronounced drawl, and gives a wonderful homage to the old biddys.

Her work in “Feud” is simply exquisite, weaving together aspects of herself, Joan Crawford and sprinkling small homages to the great Faye in “Mommie Dearest”. She’s at once glamorous, withering, explosive, pathetic and utterly heartbreaking. A divine ruin in the twilight of her life. One of her great masterworks.

Her work on AHS is brilliant pop culture fare with a twist. She played Constance like a poisonous butterfly, Sister Jude like an ox, Fiona like a gorgeous raven and Elsa like a clown. Totally different in each and always captivating. That’s why the millennials and Gen Z LOVE her so.

She fantastic as Dusty on this show. She gets the black comedy of the piece and plays it for all it’s worth without sacrificing the gravitas or the comedy. I’m loving her more and more In it.

As for you, you simply must accept that she is your QUEEN because she will continue to be whether you like it or not.

I love how bouncy and almost frivolous Lange is here. She’s hilarious and transfixing, play to the extreme opposite of what we would’ve expected from her with a character like this.

Pleasantly surprised.

Second episode, five minutes in. The actor playing Goop's husband literally says: "How did this happened?" With an ED at the end. I've listened to it five times now. Shocking, but tells you exactly how much attention went into secondary scenes.

The stuff with Infinity and her Nana feels like a blatant ripoff of The Act.

So far it's a pretty derivative show altogether that's undeserving of its theme song.

Hold on... is Ryan Murphy just doing Running With Scissors again... to a degree?

The theme song is so bland.

Jess said twat.

It can all end now.

5 min in:

River looks early 30's.

Platt uses all his ticks from Dear Evan Hansen. Very distracting closeups of his crooked mouth.

[Quote]The stuff with Infinity and her Nana feels like a blatant ripoff of The Act.

Well it's a Munchausen By Proxy scenario and that is probably the most famous example. Though people knew the story of Gypsy Rose way before Act came along.

Just watched the first two episodes, and I'm actually enjoying this show so far. Granted, none of the high schoolers look or act like high schoolers, but that seems to be the way these Hollywood productions set in high schools go.

The munchauser by proxy plotline is definitely a ripped from the headlines retelling of the Gypsy Rose Blanchard story, not so much a ripoff of The Act.

That River guy is so beautiful. I want to see more of him.

I hope they don't have Ben sing in any more episodes.

[quote]David Corenswet will be the breakout star of the show. He'll be a movie star in no time. Murphy already gave him an other role in his next show.

It helps that Corenswet's character is the most normal of the bunch in addiction to him being handsome.

[quote]In other words, he show's peen, at least to Ryan.

Oh, dear! Enough people here over the past decade have said that Ryan is strangely not like that.

He apparently did theater as a child, his father was a stage actor and he went to Juilliard. Something tells me he would have made it eventually even if he didn't get to work with Murphy.

[quote]Yeah the River guy is like an 8 and Platt is a 5 at best. Would never happen.

This happens a lot on Ryan Murphy shows.

R214 True, but do you really think something like that would have been put into the story before The Act came out? Sure, there’s things like Sharp Objects, but this is a very clear ripoff of the act. Everything, from Infinity’s childlike voice to “I just got my feeding tube taken out”.

I'm kind of liking Gwyneth Paltrow's character and I don't want to. Damn you, Ryan Murphy!

Any nudity?

No r219. This one is TV-14 not TV MA

R219 Sadly no, which lends itself to this show sucking, since the beautiful cast is wasted. But here’s David Corenswet (River)’s ass in something better than this piece of shit to satisfy you until he inevitably gets naked in Murphy’s “Hollywood”.

......

.......

......

......

I don’t need nudity to enjoy a series. I think people that do are mentally ill.

R226 Honestly, to enjoy a Murphy series, you kind of do. This isn’t Breaking Bad or GOT or The Wire, his writing is atrocious and the acting always leaves more than enough to be desired. Murphy series’s always have one good thing going for them if all else fails: hot male actors getting naked. Without that there’s absolutely nothing to keep you watching his shows anymore.

I’ve enjoyed Murphy series with no nudity. The ones I enjoy most don’t need it. (Glee, Popular, Scream Queens)

Is it campy? I hate camp

Are you seriously asking if a Ryan Murphy show is campy r229?

HORRENDOUS

I'm not as into it as I thought I'd be. I've only watched the pilot so far, but Ben Platt is either a very unlikable actor (which is odd, because I liked him in Pitch Perfect) or this character is doing him no favors. He's just an awful human being altogether and seems to have Aspergers. He's creeping me out. Even anti-heroes need some likable qualities to keep us watching even if it's just a clever way of manipulating people to get what they want.

Watched two episodes and I don't think I can take much more of it. I can't even bring myself to hate-watch it because it's not aggressively bad. It's just bland and all over the place.

Is Ryan Murphy past his prime? Was he even as good as he semed at first? Or is he just a hack?

*sorry, I meant to write: semened.

I find Murphy hit or miss like many creators are. I liked Feud, Crime Story, a couple seasons of Horror Story and the first 2 seasons of Glee. Most of his other stuff isnt that great. A lot of his shows are a jumbled mess in terms of story and characterization.

I just finished it, and the best episode of the season was the final one. I have to admit, it did make me want to watch season 2. I don't feel good about hating on Platt, because the guy obviously has talent, but he didn't prove he has it in him to carry a show. Not quite magnetic enough. Also it is weird for me to accept the character is honestly supposed to love the girlfriend character and that he is not just gay. I mean obviously the show realizes that, because it (wisely) keeps hunky David Corenswet around so Platt can have his emotionally vulnerable scenes opposite a man.

Also one little easter egg that made me laugh, the polls showed Platt had a 71% chance of winning the election and he finds out later he lost, that was exactly the percentage 538 had of Clinton winning. Nice touch by the writers there.

^^^^^^ SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!! ^^^^^^

Well DL doesn't have some reddit like spoiler function to hide text r238, we always deal with this with Netflix shows where people binge them at their own pace. I've said this before, but if you are really scared of spoilers don't go in a discussion thread until you finished watching. I've been spoiled in threads about Netflix shows, but I accepted it, I knew what I was doing by going into the discussion.

Ben Platt is awful. I can’t believe they didn’t see how over the top irritating he was in early cuts and decide to “make a change.” He is so off putting and charmless. His face looks like my butt. And he doesn’t have the charisma to carry a show. Such a disappointment.

I like Platt. I don’t get why everyone keeps whining about him.

r240 speaks eternal truths.

R241 Half of it is because he’s over the top and hammy, he’s not a very good actor for the screen. And the other half stems from the fact that his “career” only exists because of nepotism, it was handed to him by his daddy Marc Platt. Most of his stage roles (like DEH) have come from productions headed by his father’s friends (like Pasek & Paul).

R243 but that is the same reason GOoP has a career also and you all are kissing her ass.

Same with Zoey Deutch also.

Ben Platt and Ansel Elgort are being forced upon us whether we like it or not. They're too well connected to go away entirely... at least for the moment. I will say that Platt's got a better voice. I don't really want to watch either.

Ben Platt's hotter brother's even more boring though, so we should at least be happy we don't have to deal with both of them.

Platt has a beautiful singing voice.

I saw Platt in Evan Hansen and he worked great, and obviously the guy is a talented singer.

But being star of a movie/TV show takes a different type of skill, there is a certain X-factor I think he lacks.

His singing voice IS beautiful, but even that showcase was shoehorned in so awkwardly, it made me detest him even more.

R199 I came here to say that Datalounge can decry Platt's acting ability and nepotism, but you cannot deny his singing ability. That tribute song was epic.

R202 I know I couldn't believe I liked GOOP the most out of all the characters. " You can't do anything with small hearts " <3.

Lange is basically white trash Constance (Season 1 AHS) in this. Lol. I don't mind her, but yeah GOOP and Judith Light are my favs.

Ryan Murphy & co. sure love their lesbian characters ...

The Politician was given a 2 season order off the bat I see, so season 2 is definitely coming. Judith Light and Bette Midler were so fun to watch in the finale.

[Quote]I like Platt. I don’t get why everyone keeps whining about him.

DL is always harsh on gay men, we love to hate on our own.

Oh my God. This was a mash-up of Election and The Act and nothing but an excuse to give Platt an opportunity to sing. They built viewers up for god knows how many episodes only to make the election moot. As soon as Paltrow suggested Peyton try music, I knew where this was headed. This could have been 2 or 3 episodes shorter.

R252 The guy who plays River seems gay and we love him. We don’t hate gay men, we hate talentless nepotism cases. Goop included.

Does this have a good guy protagonist? I don't like to spend too much time inhabiting the world and mental space of the cynical and amoral. I like beauty.

I stopped watching House of Cards after a few episodes.

[Quote]The guy who plays River seems gay

Wait, what? Is this the wishful thinking that's common here or is David Corenswet actually gay?

Inquiring minds need to know.

R256 He pings like crazy, and after stalking his social media I see no evidence of a girlfriend, or that he’s ever dated a woman. And, as our Datalounge veterans say, he has severe “smelling cookies” face. Ryan Murphy has a habit of casting young attractive gay guys he wants to fuck (see Kenworthy and Fern), so I’d place my bets on David being gay.

R255 I wouldn’t exactly call Payton amoral, he isn’t smart enough to be like Francis Underwood, or clever enough. Honestly, instead of coming off as craftily wicked, he comes off as more mentally challenged. Like he has autism or something. Very off, but not evil, just kind of not understanding of emotion or social cues.

I don't know, if he doesn't like cynical and amoral characters I really don't think he would enjoy this show.

Or much of modern television to be honest, I guess something like "This is Us" would be his speed.

Yes, Datalounge hates openly gay men so don’t expect anyone on this website to say anything complimentary about Murphy and Platt. But expect lots of drooling over the closeted and straight men.

R260 I love Murphy a lot, I might even go as far to say that he’s my favorite producer on TV right now, but I hate Platt a lot. What does that say about me?

I’m calling it, a disappointment of Ryan’s inaugural Netflix launch.

A pedantic thing to bring up, but this show wasn't actually created for Netflix though it worked out that way. "Ratched" will be the first show Murphy actually envisioned for Netflix.

[quote]DL is always harsh on gay men, we love to hate on our own.

True, although there seems to be an exception to that rule when it comes to foreign gay actors like Whishaw, Scott, Bailey etc. Haven't seen many here disparage them.

I constantly bitch about showrunners and studios giving gay actors more work, and I even I admit Platt just rubs me the wrong way. But you know who would be great in this role? Théodore Pellerin! Now that is one homo I would love to see thrive in Hollywood. Though again, he's a foreigner, which proves my earlier point.

R263 I read Ratched is also through the Fox production. I think "Hollywood" is the first Murphy show specifically from Netflix.

Jesus Christ. Does this series ever end? Two episodes felt like four. It just drags.

[quote]I find Murphy hit or miss like many creators are. I liked Feud, Crime Story, a couple seasons of Horror Story and the first 2 seasons of Glee.

I feel like Ryan Murphy is best when he's forced to reign himself in, whether that's because he's got a spine that he has to follow (American Crime Story, Feud, The Normal Heart) or anything he did when he first started when he wasn't as powerful and didn't have as much control with the network (Glee's first few seasons or AHS's first few seasons and even Popular.)

If you just let him go with no interference you end up with THIS.

r266 Same. I finished the first two episodes in five sittings as I just kept stopping and switching to other stuff. I'm still deciding whether to continue.

[quote]Honestly, instead of coming off as craftily wicked, he comes off as more mentally challenged. Like he has autism or something. Very off, but not evil, just kind of not understanding of emotion or social cues.

Basically a variation of Evan Hansen.

Platt used a lot of the ticks from DEH, down to wiping his nose and stammering in the penultimate episode cafeteria scene.

[Quote] Or much of modern television to be honest, I guess something like "This is Us" would be his speed.

R259 No truer word said. And thanks r258.

Murphy's television production ideas are superb. But the quality doesn't hold up over a long series. I've set aside Pose too, fondly.

I'd prefer to watch a film, a Citizen Kane, a Godfather, for a concentrated examination of power.

The medium of television itself a part of it. It is faster, shallower, not immersive, powerful but not allowing of contemplation, and therefore limited in its transformative power. The medium demands a lot, delivers short.

So to make cynicism and violence - yeah I dropped Breaking Bad after a few but love Tarantino - as a regular unredeeming dose in my life is corrosive and, I find, ultimately ugly.

They are too goddam long too.

[quote]Platt used a lot of the ticks from DEH, down to wiping his nose and stammering in the penultimate episode cafeteria scene.

What's wrong with using the same emotional ticks?

Murphy does good with one season shows. Feud, the crime stories and AHS when it was truly an anthology in the first few seasons were great. Long form TV is not his friend. Though season 2 of The Politician looks promising based on the last episode, which was my favorite of them. Though it was still just alright.

I am on episode 3 and loved episode 2. I am confused by the hate.

I tried but nah lol .... it’s just not interesting? The characters are somehow both boring and ridiculous. Whatever “satire” it’s presenting, is just not landing.

Ben Platt has a gorgeous voice but hm yeah there’s really nothing “wow” or “electric” about his acting in this .... it’s just meh? like I didn’t know about his family “connections” before but it definitely helps make sense of him being chosen as the lead.

You all just bitch to bitch. There’s a point in life you need to grow the hell up, and most of your time has past DL, as most of you are OLD.

I see Netflix/Platt’s PR people are making the rounds.

Let's not insult those poor PR flacks, they could do a better effort than r275's contribution.

I’m telling the truth. The show is fine. If you don’t like it don’t watch. It’s that simple. But you all are online crying about a show you claim to not like for hours now.

R276 oh I imagine so. DL must be Murphy's core viewership.

Or maybe people will come and discuss the show and what they thought about it, good and bad, and you can fuck off r278....?

But that’s not what is happening. It’s not even a discussion.

R278 I’m guessing you missed the “pointless bitchery” part of our loading screen. If you don’t want to see complaining, you’re on the wrong site, sweetheart.

Platt has a rough mug to look at for 8 episodes and they weren't stingy with the close ups.

YIKES!

Platt is not even that bad looking.

R283 & R284 Honestly he’s not ugly or hot. He’s just kind of average looking. The kind of person you ride the subway with or pass on the street without noticing.

The MU Dept. and DR crew made most of these "highschoolers" look 10 years older than even the actors' real age.

Platt's lips were some variation of plum color. Laura Dreyfuss's orange and red eyeshadows were abominable, but worse than that, they made her look like Tory Spelling.

[quote]Lange is basically white trash Constance (Season 1 AHS) in this.

Dusty is Constance's trashy cousin from across the state line in West Virginia (Constance, being an Old Dominion gal herself). They even use the same "Jesus H. Christ!" expression, and do unspeakable things to the children in their custody.

Of Dusty's look, Lange said she imagines her having watched Karen Black in "Five Easy Pieces" back home in West Virginia and deciding that that was her idea of what glamour should be.

Among the many inaccurate things about this series, they have a 20/21 year old college student at fucking Harvard getting married??

I can't believe there's only 8 episodes in this series. It feels like 20.

My friend got married at 19 in college.

I didn't think about that, but you are damn right r288. What professional types get married that damn young?! I think of my college class, which was "elite" but not Harvard level, and no one got married that young.

What distracted me in the finale was the black lesbian character suddenly went from seriously attempting to murder Platt to being his best friend with no explanation.

Are we supposed to believe James is a cis man?

If you can’t get through the school day without going into a stall and watching porn and jerking off, you have an issue.

R292 I think the point was that they were desperate to get this guys vote and he was just an extremely immature, horny dumb teen who didn't care about the election. But yes that guy might need help at some point.

I think he was supposed to be a trans man but they didn't make a deal about it because they didn't care R291

Many would care r294

I really wish they would've just made Ben's character gay.

Ryan Murphy...what the hell happened?

You are no longer the IT boy.

R295 In the real world, sure. But not in the Ryan Murphy universe.

Also, I hate how he mentioned having sex with River but we never saw it.

I felt the Pilot was meh and episode 2 just ok but from 3 on I liked it and am confused by the hate. 3, 4 and 5were very good, to be specific.

6 is just ok again.

R299 if you tell me you had sex I don’t see it. That’s life.

The show is TV14 not MA. For the MILLIONTH FUCKING TIME. Jesus.

Yeah I assumed James is trans like the actor, but in the progressive highschool of the show no one cares so it isn't even relevant to talk about.

But yes, it is never confirmed one way or the other.

A little half-naked rolling around on the bed wouldn’t have hurt.

Shows like How to Get Away with Murder are also TV14, and also on network television, but are able to show gay male sex. R301

HTGAWM is MA

I do agree I was surprised we never saw more than a kiss between Platt/River. We should have gotten a little scene of them in bed together.

I mean even though River dies their bond is still kinda the emotional through line for the main character so it would make sense.

Scream Queens and Glee were TV 14

How To Get Away With Murder is TV MA

R303 true but I read an interview where Murphy said he wanted to keep the show family friendly, which meant he wasnt gonna show anything like that.

I’m so thankful I was raised right and don’t sit around needing to see two men laying in bed to understand a show or feel fulfilled.

What an empty life some of you must have.

Did you "need" to see Astrid and Ricardo in bed having sex r309? Cause we did.

R309 I mean it's a Ryan Murphy show. I guess I just assume this show would have similar stuff cause a lot of his shows do. Also seeing attractive male actors half to fully nude are part of the reason I watch Murphy shows. Good eye candy. I like what I like. Sue me.

R310 I brought up the family friendly thing but forgot about their scenes. Though it didnt really show anything. I guess Murphy considers het sex family friendly but not gay sex.

The thing is you all are thinking of his shows like Nip/Tuck and AHS, which are TV MA. This one is in line with Scream Queens, Glee, Popular etc. the TV 14 ones.

Not all his series have nudity. None of the latter 3 I mentioned did.

R309 GOOP, is that you?

R313 I know that. I didnt learn about it being TV 14 till right before I saw it. But it's ok to show Astrid and that one dude have pg 13 sex but not a gay couple?

There is a wide breadth of scenes of showing two characters in bes r313.

No one is expecting an HBO sex scenes burner did see other characters in bed together. We could have done that for Platt, I mean he is the dsmn main character and spends the rest of the show still obsessed with Rivers.

r309 You missed the point completely. The issue here is the aggregate - only when such scenes become ubiquitous will people become (even) more comfortable with SSM pairings, and gay people more prepared to accept their own sexuality. And maybe let's not forget that this show also airs in some homophobic shitholes; the world does not end at the shores of the US.

They could have done stuff through flashbacks before the character died. We don't need it to be some raunchy sex scene but for a gay showrunner it's odd that he has a straight couple have a scene like that and not two guys who clearly had a thing for each other.

I don’t want to see Platt in bed with River.

This series showed two men kiss. That’s TV14. Showing them laying in bed was fine but if it becomes sexual it goes to TV MA.

Straight sex doesn’t do that.

You don't need full on nudity or graphic sex, to have a sex scene on TV.

I’m broke-ass and don’t have Netflix. Does Martina really kiss Gwyneth Paltrow?

They play lovers, but I don't remember them even touching on screen, much less kissing.

They kiss in episode 6.

Shows you how much attention I pay to girl/girl stuff I guess

Teddy Sears! He's back in the Ryan Murphy fold.

Ben Platt can sing but the Billy Joel number in the final episode was painful to listen to.

He also has the annoying 'indie' habit for vocal breaks.

Where did you see Teddy Sears?

Teddy Sears is in the finale if you haven't gotten there yet. Part of the set up for season 2.

Glad to see he’s working again.

The way Teddy Sears is added in the finale was ummm........something.

Why is it something? You’re speaking of Sears like he’s some big deal. He’s not even a real actor. His looks have gotten him everywhere. I bet his looks is why he has this job.

He was in like 2 episodes of AHS. He was never within the Murphy circle.

Have you seen it? I'm talking about the role he plays in it with Judith Light.

January bozo head Jones?????

no thx

The first thing I said when I saw January Jones is “why is this racist, no talent back in this?”

R332 He was also the big bad on The Flash a while back

It just doesn’t work.

R332, My goodness, do you have to take things so literally? Teddy Sears was in four episodes of AHS's first season, but hadn't been back on a Ryan Murphy production until now. Hence, my comment about him being back in the fold.

[quote]Why is it something? You’re speaking of Sears like he’s some big deal. He’s not even a real actor. His looks have gotten him everywhere. I bet his looks is why he has this job. He was in like 2 episodes of AHS. He was never within the Murphy circle.

What did Teddy Sears do to you?

Anyways, Adina Porter was in ONE episode of AHS in the first season as "the boring woman" and it was several years before she appeared again and people noticed. His appearances on AHS (according to him) helped land him "Masters of Sex" which ran for a few years. So he wouldn't and maybe couldn't have just come back even if he had of been asked.

That being said Murphy working with him again means there was no issue between the two of them. You'll probably see him again, so get used to it. Murphy has a whole playground now and tons of shows to cast actors from before.

It's only a matter of time before Nene Leakes returns for a third Murphy project.

Goop looks uncomfortable in r339 pic. She probably has no clue who that is. She hardly knows who she works with lol.

Maybe there was issues between Sears and Murphy and they cleared it all up. Sears said after Masters of Sex that he is willing to do AHS again if they ever called him. Aka they never called him back.

I guess Murphy feels he fits for this specific role or has the look he wants for the character.

R291 Until he opened his mouth I thought he was a Ruby Rose style dyke. There’s no way in hell that he’s supposed to be taken as cis, and if he is then that has to be a tongue-and-cheek joke. Anybody who would think James could pass as cis has either never seen a cis dude or has never seen a trans dude.

And he isn't a good actor to boot. 100% flat expression in 100% of scenes.

R340, You never know with her GooP!

But yeah plenty of actors over the years, when asked about working with him again, have all said basically: "when he wants you he'll call you." It was 16 years before he called Leslie Grossman and asked her to work with him after Popular but at least he remembered her. According to her, again, it was because he thought the character "fit" her.

Leslie Grossman did a few episodes of Nip/Tuck

R342 Aside from Indya Moore and Angelica Ross I can’t really think of a talented trans actor. Hm.

Well MJ Rodriguez is good too but looks like a boy in drag to me. The other two pass for women.

I'm surprised there's not more talk about the hot twins

R346 IMHO MJ leaves something to be desired. She isn’t as god awful as Dominique Jackson, but she could definitely benefit from a year or so of acting classes.

Ben Platt's ugly cry was really ugly. And it looked like he was trying so hard to cry that the vessels at his temples were going to pop.

What possessed this production team to cast Martina Navratilova? Her line deliveries were awful.

"The Voter" episode, at first seemed, like a just a filler episode, but it actually had a potent, yet frustrating, message. No matter how hard you try to convince the undecideds or non-voters how important it is to vote, there are people who just don't give a damn and would rather think about girls (or boys) and play video games.

Why is Maya Rudolph and Larry David there?

R347 Oh god, I haven’t watched that far into the show yet, but please tell me Murphy isn’t trying to have us believe that Payton’s hot model brothers would be romantically or sexually interested in the Sinead O’Connor trans guy.

So in the finale, Beto O'Rourke has managed to win his Senate race (if only we could live in that reality), but approaches a state assembly politician from solidly blue New York to be his veep?!

Ryan Murphy you can get me to buy a lot of fantastical concepts, but I won't buy that.

R351 They're not

Eek! Ignore the misplaced commas. I edited my initial sentences, but did a poor job re-punctuating.

Lange, Light and Midler are spectacular in this.

Ryan Murphy posted on Instagram that the role of the lesbian horse trainer was written specifically with Martina in mind. Does it matter that she can’t act? It’s a Netflix show, not Shakespeare at the Old Vic. Besides there are plenty of successful bad actors around (Ruby Rose anyone?).

I don’t find the twins all that hot. Their faces are meh at best

[quote]Ryan Murphy posted on Instagram that the role of the lesbian horse trainer was written specifically with Martina in mind. Does it matter that she can’t act?

Writing a role specifically for someone *famous* who can't act - it's vintage Murphy.

If the viewers have to endure it, they can bitch about it.

Martina is barely in it. Yes shes very flat in her delivery. Doesnt really matter. Honestly I thought most of the characters where monotone aside from Platt, Lange and a couple others.

R358 why do you put *famous*? Shes very well known. As a tennis fan myself she is one of the greatest to ever play the sport and dominated most of the 80s.

Meant as an underline, not air quotes, R360

Oh sorry. Still shes barely in it and it didnt bother that she wasnt that good.

Boring title. Derivative plot.

It lacked spark. It didn't have Murphy's usual quick wit and pacing. Surprisingly boring.

Ryan Murphy's well has run dry. He better hire some talented writers and approriate all their ideas.

Nice for Platt some of you don't mind his looks.

For me, the longer I looked at this face the less I liked it.

[quote]Ryan Murphy's well has run dry. He better hire some talented writers and approriate all their ideas.

That's what the American Crime Story franchise is. Murphy didn't write a single episode of OJ or Versace.

I thought this was very good. I’m not sure what show you’re all watching because it’s actually consistent. Something most of his shows aren’t.

A May-December romance in the making?

Is that what Murphy promised her for agreeing to do this show r369? A fair trade I'd say.

Ben platt is neither a very god actor neither very good looking . I really dont know how he was cast as lead role in this

This needs an update with Corenswet.

R372 Oddly enough, I think Corenswet looks different than his usual bunch. More chiseled, paler skin, bluer eyes. More Cavill-esque than Bomer or Wittrock looking.

Come on, Murphy would be on 7th heaven if he could get his hands on Cavill.

As soon as he came on screen I thought he could be Matt Bomer's younger brother. I get the Cavill thing too of course, but Cavill and Bomer favor each other so its saying the same thing to me.

To put it simply, all three look like Superman.

I don’t see Bomer in his face. Bomer is not even that good looking. He has crazy eyes.

Cavill is one of the most beautiful men I’ve ever seen.

Adding Corenswet's resemblance to Tom Welling circa Smallville, R375.

God, I really hope David does copious amounts of nude scenes in the Murphy’s Hollywood series. He’s too gorgeous to be neglected by the eye candy gratuity we expect from Murphy shows now.

Unfortunately David's ass looked pretty flat in the material linked upthread, oh well, no one is perfect.

R378 Darren Criss and a cute guy named Jeremy Pope are leads with Corenswet in that Hollywood show. If Murphy doesnt get at least 2 of them naked on that show itll be a travesty.

R379 I think that’s a bad judge of it, considering not much of it was bared. Hopefully Hollywood will give us plenty of material to come to an educated conclusion.

As has been said, this show was originally meant for network television and was meant to be family friend.

"Hollywood" isn't meant to be a family-friendly show, so obviously there will be the sex and nudity you get in adult fare. I mean the show has already been described as "sexy".

R380, a good reason for the EP credits aka extra cash doled out to them.

Actually speak of the devil, I see it was David Corenswet himself who described it as sexy

[quote]"It's 1940s Hollywood, so there's going to be great clothes and great accents. It's going to be sexy and optimistic. It's really about young people and the excitement of young people seeking opportunity," star David Corenswet teased to The Hollywood Reporter.

R377, Yes. The first time I laid eyes on Corenswet on this show, I thought he looked like a cross between Tom Welling and Henry Cavill. Then when the Platt character meets him in the afterlife and asks him why he did it when he looked like Superman and had it all, I thought "okay, even the producers see it."

R384 That basically guarantees he’ll be baring ass. Thanks!

Sexy doesnt always equal or mean nudity.

Work r387. Find me next summer when we are here discussing the show. You know there will be obviously be nudity, there is not even a season of AHS without some nudity, and "Hollywood" covers the damn sex industry(!).

I mean this is a pretty silly argument.

R388 oh I forgot the sex industry will be featured in some way. Nevermind, you're right.

R369. I’m LIVING for their pictures together at the premiere. Mama is still out there seducing hot young cock at 70. I live.

Failing to see how the sex industry and the casting couch qualifies as "optimistic" but we'll see.

Yep, what Murphy has said

[quote]“look at Hollywood and the sex industry, and how absolutely everything has changed and nothing has changed.”

And I've thought the same r391, that doesn't exactly sound optimistic. And optimistic is a word that has been used to describe this project a lot.

Maybe it turns optimistic for characters after initial struggle and issues? Though that Willson guys life fell apart and him messing with young actors is dark.

The Prom sounds exhausting

[quote] A troupe of hilariously self-obsessed theater stars swarm into a small conservative Indiana town in support of a high school girl who wants to take her girlfriend to the prom. Starring Meryl Streep, Nicole Kidman, James Corden, Andrew Rannells, Keegan-Michael Key and Awkwafina.

[quote]And optimistic is a word that has been used to describe this project a lot.

Yep, seems the PR line and must've come from Murphy. But he has a history of using qualifiers which don't pan out once you see the actual product they refer to.

R394 It was the laughing stock of the Tony’s and a testament to how Broadway is dying. A boring, horribly written and scored piece of schlock. The best thing I can equate The Prom to is the chunk of air in a bag of chips.

Ryan Murphy believes his own bullshit now.

His best work is The Feud, OJ, and the first 2 seasons of Nip/Tuck which deal with his favourite camp themes in heavily dramatic, self-serious way. He should continue on this route. His more comedic work is not great.

He is kind of a factory at this point. He's got two shows going at Netflix and Shonda Rimes hasn't any yet.

Golden Age of TV? Hardly. Look at all this crap these "creators" are pumping out. Trash.

R399 When people say that they tend to be referring to shows like Breaking Bad and Game Of Thrones. More HBO than Murphy bullshit.

Yes, I think Ryan Murphy shows are fun and I always watch each one, but that's what they are...fun.

He isn't making "The Sopranos", "The Wire", "Mad Men" or "Breaking Bad". The type of shows that defined this "golden age of TV"

And it does say something that his most critically applauded show (ACS), he didn't write.

"Feud" I'd guess would be the strongest work he actually wrote.

Is that Anna's daughter Bea on Ryan's left? Is it me or does she look a trifle... unhappy?

For gay fans the fact that the gay character is dead by the end of the first episode sealed the deal.

It's incredibly how tone deaf are some gay creators, like if bury your gays was something new or groundbreaking

For self obsessed gay fans. Some of us can watch a show where the gay character is not the end all to be all.

PS the main character of the show was fucking the “gay guy”. So he’s gay too.

I thought Ben's character was bi.

R404: Ben Platt is not gay on the show, in fact he spends the whole show dating a girl .

And this is not about having a gay main character is about not doing the same shit a straight writer will do (killing a gay character is the first thing a writer do when they don't know what to do and it's tiresome)

Both River and Platt are meant to be bi/fluid.

I'm not sure why that poster called him "the gay character". He is not anymore "gay" then Platt is and he is the main character on the show. They both are torn between their girlfriends and each other.

Also for "for gay fans", do you think you are on reddit or something speaking to straight people about the gay perspective? Pretty much all of us are gay here man.

The guy dating a girl was fucking a man. And the gay man that killed himself was also dating a girl... so????

R408: So that's what you get from a gay headwriter and with the whole promo on the gay media

Just because I’m a gay writer doesn’t mean I’m gonna make everything gay, especially if I want a hit show.

I actually thought it was nice how they were both bi and it wasn't a big deal. Both told their girlfirends about the affair, and there was no drama about their sexuality, just a standard argument about loyalty.

R410: It's not about making everything, it's about writing decent gay character that don't die at the first fucking episode.

It's about not having such inferiority complex that you need to make your fucking gay character a traitor and a coward (Quantico) or being unable to make your gay character part of the main gang (Teen Wolf), or make them being just part of the enviroment (like every Greg Berlanti's show)

It's incredibly pathetic that an straight writer like the one on Spartacus can make things right (he couldn't care less that some of his audience got a bad reaction to his gay characters) but gay writers are pussies unable to do the same.

It's about treating your gay characters like your straight ones. It's not the difficult, or at least it shouldn't be for someone who is powerful like Murphy

Wow, I didn’t know they were going to pair Platt with a female love interest. And I thought it was a stretch just to have him be fucking River.

R413: Platt is gay, but he is a decent actor. He played straight on Dear Evan Hansen and he received a Tony for that. He is not Billy Porter

They keep both sides going r413. Platt's character has a girlfriend, but he still spends the season fantasizing about Rivers. I mean the scenes with Rivers are deeper than the scenes he has with his girlfriend.

414 He wasn’t convincingly straight as Evan. He was great in that role, and he deserved the award, but that facet of husband performance wasn’t why he won.

^R414

R412 how many gay guys in real life are accepted in the “main group”? It’s not as common as you think sweetie.

Also *of his performance. Wow, autocorrect is going wild today.

R416: He was convincing enough to win a Tony

Platt seems more straight than gay to me.

R418: We are not talking about real life, we are talking about a tv show. And you have a gay guy running for president right now.

The times were gay guys were totally marginals are long gone.

It's not that difficult making a gay character part of the main emsemble, even teen shows like Elite or Skam did it without any problem

The main character of the show is a bisexual guy played by an openly gay actor dear r422.

And you have no gaydar if you can't tell Platt is gay r421. I assumed he was gay since I first saw him in Hansen.

Gay men are a huge minority.

I always find it funny how you all will bring up demographics for black men to put them down while not realizing there are less gay men than black men in this Country. And gay men ARE marginalized all over this fucking country.

NYC must be fogging your mind.

R423: The main character is a bisexual who has a relationship with a girl during the whole show

R424: And there are way less gay characters than black characters, so i don't get your point.

Being a minority doesn't mean that the characters of that minority must be secondary. That's absurd

Either some of the people on this thread are Netflix/Platt PR or some of y’all really need to turn in your gay cards. Gay men are still an oppressed minority, stop drinking the kool-aid. Also, Platt is obviously gay and can’t pass as straight for the life of him. Like the poster above said, if you think he can pass as straight you have no gaydar. Either that or like I said before, you’re a Netflix/Platt PR person. Or a rabid fangirl.

[quote]The main character is a bisexual who has a relationship with a girl during the whole show

...ignoring that he is making out with a guy in the damn pilot?!?! It's your first introduction to the character.

R426: So you are basically saying that he is a bad actor

R427: Yes, he makes up with another guy in the pilot, big deal, specially after that guy kills himself. It's totally groundbreaking

R420, he was playing a manic and socially inept highschooler. Not exactly the paragon of masculine virility.

I didn't believe the sister of the dead guy in DEH would fall for him (despite the circumstances), and I don't believe the GF on this show will leave the Thad fiance for Payton either.

The final episode is built on a favorite trope of Murphy's HS shows. The whole gang swoops in on the main character to browbeat them - and by extension the viewer - into believing they're amazing and will do a huge favor to the whole world by following their dream (see Rachel Berry), despite the fact that the viewer isn't at all on board that said main character is god's gift to mankind.

Well, not all heterosexuals are the paragorn of masculine virility, in fact most of them are not

The truth is most of nowadays straight men would be considered not masculine in the 50's. Things change.

I think Platt is a good actor and it's nice that a young actor doesn't mind come out instead of the usual pathetic bearding

I can not believe that some people in this thread think Platt passes as straight. Is this still a gay site? Is gaydar just not a thing anymore?

Well Rachel Berry wanted to be on broadway, and Lea Michelle is a fantastic broadway singer. At least there it makes sense r429.

It is a bit harder to buy Payton is the gifted political candidate that his friends believe him to be

[quote]and I don't believe the GF on this show will leave the Thad fiance for Payton either.

This part I can buy. The GF wants to be first lady. She hears Peyton and the gang are starting back up her poltical ambitions and you see that is the thing that gives her the push to leave her man. When it was just Peyton without his plan to be President that wasn't enough to her.

[quote]I can not believe that some people in this thread think Platt passes as straight. Is this still a gay site? Is gaydar just not a thing anymore?

Well that was one poster, and everyone proceeded to mock them.

Platt’s an alright actor, but this show isn’t a good example of that. If anything this show will just highlight the nepotism fuel behind his career that people hate him for. DEH was the best view of his talent, but he carried a lot of the character choices from that role over to this, which makes him look like a one trick pony. We’ll have to see him in another thing to accurately judge his talent, hopefully a role not motivated by nepotism (although that may be impossible).

R432: It's not about passing as straight, it's about acting, and the guy can act. Unless you are like one of those straights who are totally conditionated for the actor's sexual orientation (i find incredibly curious that never happens with straight actors whose life, some of them very well documented, never affects to the credibility of their performances)

Of course you can be a good actor and have no big range, like Billy Porter (who is perfect for certain characters).

Gay men are the biggest minority worldwide. Only on DL do you see gay men that are disillusioned to believe there are many of them. Outside of major cities there aren’t many of you. In other words, the world doesnt revolve around 2% of the world. Lmao.

R437: And what has anything of that has to do with the threat?

Trans are way less and that doesn't mean their stories can't be told.

Anyway, your whole comment screams troll, so better no waste my time

thread not threat

Why did he leave fox?

Netflix gave him more millions.

[quote]Gay men are the biggest minority worldwide.

....How dumb are you?

You know what's not in minority? Stupid people.

R440 I think it’s a combination of Netflix offering more money and Disney owning/policing Fox. Something tells me they would have given Murphy and all his “non-family friendly” content the boot.

The contract Ryan Murphy signed to make content for Netflix was for 300 HUNDRED MILLION

It's nothing more complicated than this. This deal made him very rich, not that he wasn't wealthy already.

R443, he currently has shows both on Fox (procedural) and FX (AHS / ACS / Pose) continuing under Disney ownership.

Unless Disney plans to nix FX, $$$ seems to be the common sense reason.

I couldn’t get into this show but I like all the actors. I just don’t see the point of it. I don’t know what it’s getting at.

I enjoyed it and I’m a Ben Platt fan so I’m happy to see him getting higher profile work.

English homosexual here, I watched this over the last two days and feel V disappointed.

It just wasn't very well put together, the main teen/mid 20s students were dull and while it was nice to see every minority group represented it just wasn't very good. The performances weren't bad, just poorly written parts and largely cliched characters.

A friend watched the first episode and asked if he should continue. I told him to watch the final episode and he wouldn't have missed much.

I really do wonder what Murphy's problem is. He's great at coming up with concepts and storylines and attracting top tier talent and he almost always ruins it midway in. The American Crime Stories and Feud have been the only exceptions to the rule. I guess he had to follow an actual series of true events, so he already had his ending mapped out. He's excellent with the first episodes of exposition, but he struggles with keeping interest during the middle of the season (or act 2) and almost always passes out before he can come up with a satisfying ending.

Can't he hire other people to help him with this? Is he incapable of coming into the season meeting and saying "ok, guys, this season will open like this and I know I want this, this, and this to happen, but besides that, have fun and run with it."

Everyone keeps on with Murphy but he doesn’t work alone. He has two partners that write also and direct etc.

Truth. Falchuck and Brennan are treated as if they don't exist by people.

I think they enjoy avoiding the spotlight though and letting Murphy be the face. Not that you have a choice with that diva.

Jesus. If I were Murphy, I wouldn't try to take credit for some of the shit Falchuck and Brennan write if this is, in fact, the case.

[quote]Can't he hire other people to help him with this?

Murphy didn't write any of the American Crime Stories. He EP'd and directed. Draw your conclusions.

Murphy doesn't write everything. For example the Hollywood series coming up apparently has a lot of episodes written by Janet Mock from Pose. He has a bunch of writers working for him, just some are better than others.

I appreciated that the first thing Murphy did when he won the Oscar for Versace was to thank Tom Rob Smith for writing it.

Emmy* for Versace obviously

If you watch Glee you can see who wrote each episode. Each of them took turns writing an episode, here and there. Around season 4 or 5 they started to allow others to write also. I think they got together and it was just the main 3 writing for the shows final season.

The fact that there were more lesbians in this show than gay men says something.

Paltrow is actually quite good in this, and her character is somewhat of a spoof of what her image is. There is something about Platt that rubs me the wrong way. He looks like a fat kid who has starved himself to being thin, but he still looks like he was a fat kid. His body is odd.

He was a chubby kid R459

Was he in Caroline or Change, R460. I didn't know that. He's been going at it for a while, then. Even though I'm sure he has benefitted from his connections, I admire that he has been working since he was a little kid, when he really didn't need to.

Someone else already said it: Murphy needs a linear story to follow for his projects to work. He's great at coming up with new concepts, but I think he gets bored very quickly and moves on to the next project before the first one is finished. He also jams his casts with way too many needless characters because he wants to give jobs to his friends. (Looking at you, Dylan McDermott, Leslie Gorssman, Billie Lourde and Teddy Sears.) Dylan McDermott and January Jones were useless to the plot of The Politician. Their scenes did nothing to move the story forward. They didn't need to be there.

These are supposed to be high school kids in the modern age. These kids have no need for black and white labels like gay or straight or bisexual. They follow their heart (and lust) and hook up with whomever strikes their fancy. I like how Astrid said her bf River was gender fluid and moved on. No big deal. I like how everyone treated James as one of the guys, but was obviously transgender. Again, no big deal.

R463 I’m sorry, if you think kids nowadays don’t care about labels then you must not be around teenagers a lot. The whole gender movement is about black and white labels, that’s why there are so many new genders and sexualities being added to the LGBT+ umbrella out of nowhere. Teens care about labels now more than ever, especially LGBT+ teens.

R464, I didn't say they don't care about labels. I said they don't care about black and white labels.

black and white labels: girl, boy, male, female, straight, gay, etc.

non b&w (non-traditonal) labels: gender fluid, transgender, non-binary, etc.

[quote]He is kind of a factory at this point. He's got two shows going at Netflix and Shonda Rimes hasn't any yet.

Exactly. Shonda is very different than Ryan in that she absolutely seems to be taking her time putting programming on Netflix. She also doesn't do "quirky" or "funny" very well if at all. She's all drama. Two years ago she announced that she had 8 shows for Netflix planned: a documentary, three original series, three shows based on books, and a fourth original series that she'll be deeply personally involved with. The first one doesn't start until next year. She's absolutely is not in any hurry.

Murphy on the other hand already shot the film version of The Boys in the Band for Netflix, they're shooting The Prom later this year and he also got the rights to do a tv series version of "A Chorus Line." This series, The Politician, seems to be a bit of a mess but if you add in Ratched (who knows if it will be good) and Hollywood (which is still taking shape) you get the impression he's going for some low hanging fruit with the play adaptations. I mean, you don't have to reinvent the wheel with those. It's easy to fulfill whatever obligations he has with Netflix with those. I hope Hollywood will be good but there doesn't happen to be a large public demand for shows about it. He can't possibly be doing too much with all of them.

It just feels like Shonda wants to give them "Grey's Anatomy" (which is on season 16!) / How to Get Away With Murder (which she just produces) / Private Practice (which at least lasted 6 seasons) or Scandal (which finished with 7) rather than a crap show that will last one or two years and then be cancelled. She's had a few of those herself. (The Catch, For the People, Off the Map, Still Star Crossed). It seems like maybe she has learned.

[quote]I couldn’t get into this show but I like all the actors. I just don’t see the point of it. I don’t know what it’s getting at.

The point was to get to the finale episode which sets up season two with Judith and Bette. That is clearly the show they really want to make.

I wish we had seen more of River before he offed himself halfway through the pilot, but the actor did well with what he was given. He was sympathetic and more believable than Payton. Interesting that he's already getting an executive producer credit for Hollywood. I'm annoyed I'll have to suffer through Criss though. Can't stand that guy.

This falls squarely in camp unbearable Ryan Murphy, along with Glee, Nip/Tuck, AHS - half way in you want to throw the television across the room.

There is a sweetness and depth to David Corenswet that none of the other pretty boy actors have. He will be a movie star on the level of Kevin Costner in his prime, or Gary Cooper. He also seems very comfortable and secure which is a necessary ingredient to being perceived as a hero by the the audience.

I agree that he worked here, but all he really had to do was be loveable and attractive.

Curious to see him in Hollywood where we will presumably have a better test of his acting ability.

[Quote]I just don’t see the point of it. I don’t know what it’s getting at.

[Quote]The point was to get to the finale episode which sets up season two with Judith and Bette. That is clearly the show they really want to make.

I feel the same way. The stakes of a highschool election are so practically non-existent that it hurts the season.

Now we are into the real world of politics, which in a show called "The Politician" that is where we should be. They would have been better off starting with his first real race.

(Also you have to be a New York resident for 5 years to run for state senate, but let's ignore that)

Let’s have a kiki!

I'm halfway through the season and I think it's a fun show, something different, and I can't stand Goop. No one has mentioned the character Ricardo, who is great and definitely adds another dimension to the show. Getting a little sick of the trans kid James though.

Trans people can be very boring. Just look at Caitlyn Jenner.

R474, Trans people win awards, mutherfucker. Awards!

R475. They should win awards just for being trans? What about acting ability? What category, Best performance by an inverted penis?

Lange is perfection in episode 2, followed closely by a tie between episodes 6and. She does tragicomedy brilliantly.

maybe with someone other than the boring mr platt it may have worked....and goop? god....

I kind of felt like Lange was miscast in this. Maybe it was just her awful hairdo.

[quote]No one has mentioned the character Ricardo

And his amazing puffy nipples.

R479 False. She’s brilliant here.

“You come waltzing in HEAH...” ::kabuki hand gestures::

/dead

Some of the sets seemed familiar, even Judith's campaign office.

[quote] but do others really think he has a chance or are they just lying to him?

Have you ever met a teenager? How about rich teens? This show is crap, but if there's one thing right on this is that it encapsules that particular group of people really well.

I went to school with these people. They're like that.

Wait that annoying gay guy playing a straight character is trans? No offense, but that explains a lot. The fluidity of the characters in this show annoys the hell out of me. On one hand I'm happy its just a part of the character, but on another they're just not convincingly bi or straight or fluid. I can believe Platt being in love with a woman, but the others, not really. The lesbian romance with Laura Dreyfuss was the only convincing romance here.

[quote] Anybody who would think James could pass as cis has either never seen a cis dude or has never seen a trans dude.

Until I read this thread I thought he was a gay guy playing a straight character like Miles Heizer. He looks like any random fem boy i've ever met.

Interesting r485.

I guess it just depends on your experience. It was obvious to me that James was trans, but I've seen a fair number of trans people. Same with the trans character on Euphoria, some people immediately knew, some had no idea.

R486 Same for me. Right off the bat I knew James was trans, his face and body both looked very female, and not in an androgynous way. I’m usually great at picking up these things though, although I will admit, I didn’t know the Euphoria girl was trans until halfway through the first episode, which threw me for a loop. I can usually tell just from looking at the person and using context clues.

Whoa! It really is a wreck. I feel sorry for Jessica Lange, this is a terrible role for her. The lead guy has a face for radio -- astonishing that he got the lead in this mess.

R488 I don’t feel bad for her at all. Oh, I agree with you about being a terrible role - derivative, shoddily written, unnecessary to the overall plot - but her brilliance in it reaffirms why she’s one of the greats.

Lange isn’t a tongue-in-cheek comedienne but rather a tragic one, in all senses of the word. Here she brings just enough grit and pathos to make the role naturally funny without compromising the irrational reality of the situation. Let it not go unnoticed that everything is basically stacked up against her character. Who in the hell finds Münchausen syndrome by proxy funny? Still, Lange, who isn’t well versed in comedy, took Ryan Murphy’s rotten bait out of loyalty and because of a career long fear of and itch to do comedy. Her brilliance in this is all the more delicious as a result.

My favorite episodes featuring Lange are 2, 6 and 7: the breakdown episode, the sinister plot episode and the confession episode. I think she is both hilarious and truly disturbing in all three.

Episode 2 features two very different breakdowns; one a comedic one and the other a dramatic one. The “Did somebody give her a raisin?!” scene is a riot but also disturbing. Lange was brave to not play it for sympathy or for full-on laughs. She finds an uncomfortable, subtly disturbing middle ground that speaks volumes about her character.

By contrast, the “You come waltzin’ in hear...” scene isn’t played for comedy or sympathy but for pure psychotic grit. You realize that there is no sympathetic backstory nor any other reasons outside of psychosis and sociopathy that will explain her behavior.

She’s a riot in episode 6, inadvertently and then very purposefully plotting the demise of Payton. She also manages to add another layer to her character without compromising the disturbing truth of said character. Again, she toes a thin line but knocks it out of the park.

Her work in episode 7 is equally fantastic. She manages to maintain the balance between tragic hilarity and disturbance perfectly.

She’s fantastic in the other episodes (her “It’s ringin’!” and “Munch butts” bits are perfection), but the aforementioned episodes are where she puts real meet on the bones of her character without pandering with tongue-in-cheek comedy nor by forcing us to sympathize with her character.

She creates a memorably gaudy and loathsome character while still managing to be as alluring as ever.

*meat on the bones

Also, forgive me for the overuse of the word disturbing, lol. I’m beat and feeling very lazy right now. 😏

I am hurt that Shirley Bassey's music featured in this horror, and that Jessica Lange's deranged character is a Bassey fan.

Just starting episode 6. January Jones and Gwyneth look fantastic. The high school students are all annoying and look like the 30 year olds they actually are.

Saw the pilot. Hot garbage.

It’s been what one or two weeks since this came out? I can honestly say I barely remember what is was about and when people describe scenes above I have little or no recollection of them. Not a good sign.

A lot of it is forgettable. But the last episode showed a lot of promise for season 2.

Halfway thru. Enjoying it though the actual voting episode veered into boring but it was fine. The trailer didn't let on how "wacky" it really is. The Assassins" duet was beautiful. For me Paltrow is stealing the whole thing and will be rewarded.

Overall I liked it, but I couldn't get over Platt and what was going on with his upper lip (botox, bee sting, allergic reaction?). I also resented Platt's character being so self-absorbed he couldn't see his friend River was in pain which led him to suicide. Since this happens in the first episode I didn't care much for his character for the rest of the season and it was all about the other characters like Georgina Hobart (Gwyneth P.) for me. But for me the standout was River, David Corenswet. It made sense that a guy like River, who hid his chronic depression behind a kind and humble facade, was drawn to someone who was as lost and depressed as he was. The only true gay character on the show was Skye, the lesbian VP. The rest were fluid (both River and Payton had girlfriends and River is introduced as being all hung up about his girlfriend faking it with him).

And why was Platt looking like a young Bobby Cannavale at the end of the opening credits?

Someone updated this wikipedia page of LGBT characters in TV

Payton is gay and closeted. River is bisexual. He's dating Astrid but also hooks up with Payton. Astrid describes herself as "sorta fluid". Georgina is bisexual and Payton's mother. She had a love affair with Brigitte. Brigitte is lesbian. McAfee is lesbian. She and Skye dated. Skye is a gender non-conforming lesbian.[citation needed]

Not sure how accurate it is

An interesting article

[quote]The Politician flaunts its progressive signifiers, but its sexual politics are deeply conservative.

David Corenswet, "River" is going to become a major movie star very quickly. He is being discussed for Superman and Marvel is already after him. But he might take a more classic approach to his career. He graduated from the University of Pennsylvania so he's very smart and has a very powerful manger, Jason Weinberg.

He needs to put on a lot of muscle to play those superheroes, but I guess the studios would feel they could make that happen...one way or another.

He did not graduate from Penn r500.

I checked out his LinkedIn and he did his college at Julliard, Penn is also listed vaguely but I am guessing that was some stuff of summer program or something. No degree is associated with it.

Quite frankly David looks right out of the CMU playbook just like Boomer.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Who is that ghost girl next to Bette? She needs to eat something and get some sun.

R505, that's Lucy Boynton. Rami's girl.

Rami's beard

The last episode with Bette Midler gave me goosebumps. In the scene where she explained to the intern why they don't bother to campaign was marvelous, and she waved her hands around like she's Hocus Pocus' Winnifred putting a spell on the poor girl. I am not ashamed to admit, on an anonymous message board, that I came a little watching that scene.

Was anyone else annoyed by the priniciple character who spoke like she had a swollen mouth full of saliva? Totally unintelligible. They shoulde have casted someone else or give her some lessons with voice teacher.

...did you really not get the actor is deaf r509?

I agree I found it distracting in some scenes, but give her lessons with a voice teacher? Oh dear.

And casted is not a word.

R509 The actress is Deaf.

What? If she is deaf how come no one was using sign language with her?

[quote]Was anyone else annoyed by the priniciple character

Principal. She is played by Natasha Ofili, a deaf actress.

[quote]If she is deaf how come no one was using sign language with her?

Not everybody knows sign language. And people who are deaf don't use intepreters for all occasions if they can effectively communicate without one.

How else can someone deaf communicate effectively without sign language? Sorry, I don't know anyone with that condition so I'm a bit uneducated on the subject,

Some deaf people are very adept at reading lips, some have that cochlear implant technology that does allow them to hear somewhat.

Are most deaf people gay?

It's cool that they hired a deaf actress and she was fine in the role but it left me a bit confused as well. I assumed that she had suffered some sort of head injury which is why she spoke that way and that her injury would be featured in the story somehow. Not that there's anything wrong with surviving a head injury....

Maybe they could've included a tiny scene where the actress tells the performer opposite her something like, "Please look at me directly, I can't read your lips when you turn away from me" to clue in the audience. If that happened, I missed it.

Is the show as bad as the critical reviews indicated?

It's worth watching for dreamboat (is that still a thing?) David Corenswet alone.

R517, just as they hired a trans actor to play James and made no references to the character being trans, they hired a deaf actor to play the principal without making any references to her being deaf. I guess the new trend in diversity casting is to make it seem like the most normal thing to do by not acknowledging it.

I was thinking the same r520, it was definitely on purpose that the show didn't remark on either thing.

David Corenswet being adorable in a new interview.

I liked it. I thought it was more successful than most Ryan Murphy series. The poor reviews I read basically said that the series re-presents what a lot of political satires already have addressed thematically; they seem to hold the series responsible for not having changed the world. Which is a really idiotic premise for a Netflix show about rich teenagers’ high school class president elections.

It’s entertaining. Sometimes that’s good enough.

It has a plot and a story, and that’s better than, for example, American Horror Story. So I say well done.

[quote]they hired a deaf actor to play the principal without making any references to her being deaf.

I think there was a reference (I can't remember exactly what it was) but it wasn't when the character first appeared. It was much later in the show. By then I was thinking she must either be deaf or with a severe speech impediment.

[quote]Is the show as bad as the critical reviews indicated?

Don"t read reviews, I don't care what some stranger paid to see it thinks. I liked it a lot. Probably going to binge the whole thing again soon. Paltrow is a revelation.

ben Platt is only 26?!! i thought he was 35. Anyways as much as I love queen Lange, this looks horrible and cheesy.

Goop is really fantastic in this. She radiates a quiet motherly glow, and she looks great in all the high-end clothes -- most of it seemingly Gucci-- she wears. I know people hate her, but I think she is a charismatic actress. I will be surprised if she doesn't get an Emmy nod for this. And the kid who plays River is adorable, and his voice is sexy af. I'm sure they named him River, just to give Platt an excuse to sing the Joni Mitchell song, But, damn, who would't want to skate away on that kind of river?!?!?

[quote]I will be surprised if she doesn't get an Emmy nod for this.

Oh honey, prepare to be surprised.

My dad urged me to watch the Politician because he loved it. He’s 72 and he has no anti-Murphy or anti-Goop bias because he knows nothing about them. He thought the show was a quirky and fun curiosity and I do agree. I wish I knew nothing about Gwyneth Paltrow as a person because she’s one of my favorite actors. I think she’s extraordinary. I only had a vague awareness of Ben Platt and I was impressed with his performance. I think the gratuitous songs that make zero sense in this series are a typical and disappointing Ryan Murphy series trapping but at least Platt can sing. The time jump at the end was a big relief, too, because who the hell wants to stick with annoying spoiled teenagers in high school? Overall, I like it a lot. I did choose to accept it as a trifle, though. I have no idea why people decided it’s supposed to be a profound and revelatory viewing experience. It’s a silly satire, and that’s all.

The show is classified as “Comedy-Drama”

Did you laugh even once?

R530 Comedies don’t have to be haha funny. In the tradition of Shakespeare, “comedy” can refer to dramas whose nearly tragic events end well for everyone, and “All’s Well that Ends Well.”

I laughed at the newly poor twins' line "Did you order a prostitute again?".

[quote] I will be surprised if she doesn't get an Emmy nod for this.... Oh honey, prepare to be surprised.

Oh honey, she is al;ready an Emmy winner for a Ryan Murphy show and since she steals the whole season, it is highly likely she will win again.

R533 I liked this one better.

Maybe Season 2 will be better than Season 1. It shows some potential.

I think Jessica Lange is a great, unique, fascinating performer a lot of the time, but the way Murphy is writing for her has made everything she does feel like a caricature, almost a cartoon, and it’s hammy distracting from the story.

Season 2 will have Judith Light and Bette Midler. Of course, it will be fun.

R537 I'm excited about season 2 mainly cause of them.

Just finished episode 6 and I can’t believe how impressed I am with Goop. Jessica Lange seems a bit one note In all she does. I mean she’s good but it’s always the same sort of character. The show needs more River though.

Just finished episode 6 and I can’t believe how impressed I am with Goop. Jessica Lange seems a bit one note In all she does. I mean she’s good but it’s always the same sort of character. The show needs more River though.

R540 When my father was telling me about the show, he threw in, “Jessica Lange is in it. She plays the Jessica Lange character, the one she always does. You like her, right?”

I agree that David Corenswet has the potential to be a huge, huge star. He's extraordinarily handsome and sexy while also being sympathetic. A real star has to be both likeable and fuckable, and he's both. I'm not a bit surprised that Marvel is salivating to get him.

" I have no idea why people decided it’s supposed to be a profound and revelatory viewing experience. It’s a silly satire, and that’s all."

.......Well because Netflix did not pay Ryan Murphy $300 million dollars for a "silly satire". They want cultural landmarks NOW before their new streaming competitors steal their business.

If they wanted the Politician to be a landmark, they shouldn't have killed off the charismatic gay love interest in the first episode.

Imagine how interesting the series would have been if River had lived and the show had been about a close presidential race between two candidates: the reluctant favorite and the obsessive underdog, who, while fiercely competitive in the election, were totally hot for each other in their private lives. That's a show I'd want to watch again and again.

R545 Actually, that’s an intriguing idea.

I'm surprised by how much I'm enjoying this. I didn't love the first episode, but it does grow on you and find its footing. Goop is really great and nails the tone the show seems to be going for.

I don't care what any of you bitches say - I think Ben Platt is adorable and his performance gets better with each episode. I don't care for the random musical numbers, though. They seem like filler.

The whole Astrid vs Payton thing was a letdown in a lot of ways and the idea R545 proposed might have been better with Astrid being a thorn in Paytons side on the side.

I think Ryan Murphy underestimated how popular River's character would be. If he had realized how quickly David Corenswet would take off, he never world have killed him off in the first episode. But he did cast him in Hollywood, his next series, and made him a producer so he clearly plans to keep him around for as long as he can. He will become the biggest star to have appeared in any of Murphy's shows.

Murphy should have seen it though, just by watching the dailies: Corenswet is magic onscreen. But perhaps by the time he saw it, it was too late to change the show's direction. The episodes might have been filmed out of order or in blocks and pieces that were later stitched together into full episodes: Streaming shows do things very differently than traditional network shows. He's smart to cast Corenswet in his next series. I'll watch Hollywood just for him.

R549, River was killed off in the first episode, but he returns several times in Payton's dreams as his guide and muse. So it might not be the last you'll see of him in this series.

Even so, nothing will ever happen because he's dead R551

R552, The could have a sex flashback while he's in bed with a woman. That should happen no more than twice each episode.

[quote] Imagine how interesting the series would have been if River had lived and the show had been about a close presidential race between two candidates: the reluctant favorite and the obsessive underdog, who, while fiercely competitive in the election, were totally hot for each other in their private lives.

It would be difficult for the writers to keep River's character nice, clean, and likable. If he had lived he would have come off as pathetic for being a pushover who does everything his girlfriend demands of him (including staying in the election) for most of the season.

With River dead all we see is him being put on a pedestal by Payton. A loving, caring, and humble River.

Nice, clean, likable characters are boring if that's all there is to them. I would have liked a River with a bit more shading and dimension. I will say, having rewatched just the River scenes, that Corenswet does a nice job of distinguishing between real, clinically depressed but faking it River and dead, idealized dream River.

The show’s take on depression is curious to me. River appears to be an extreme empath, almost to the level of Deanna Troi on Star Trek, and overstimulated and overwhelmed by everyone’s feelings. That’s not exactly the same thing as clinical depression, although depressed people may experience such feelings.

Right r556. When people are saying River didn't seem like he would be suicidal, they seemed to be ignoring the reason the show gives. "I feel everything", it is all the pain in the world around him that was supposedly overwhelming.

But really the character is meant for the audience to fall in love with, that's the point. Then we care when he dies and you care when he keeps reappearing as this angelic character in Peyton's fantasies. The audience is meant to love River and never get over him the same way Peyton does.

R557 That’s never going to happen in a single episode or even in a single season.

The only TV death that has ever done that to me was Adriana in the Sopranos. She made constant poor (and stupid) decisions and it telegraphed and teased what would happen to her for at least a whole season. When it happened, it was absolutely devastating. And Christopher and the whole series were haunted by her for exactly the reasons you describe above.

River's depression was based on not being able to a) help (and please) everybody and b) being lost and not knowing what he wanted for himself or having the courage to go for what he wanted and abandon his main calling to please everybody.

I don’t think psychoanalysis really applies to the River character. He was supposed to be perfect physically and perfect morally—which is not a realistic psychological profile of anyone ever on Earth—and I think overall the person who wrote the series probably uses River as a device to inform Peyton’s character. River is physically and morally a better person than Peyton, but Peyton is a better politician and a better survivor. A person who embodies all the characteristics we think of as perfection is not made to handle the realities of politics; it’s a mistake to promote someone to the job because they look like JFK, Jr. or because they seem like great moral leaders. It’s a dirty job, and you need innately opportunistic, calculating people to do that job, and Peyton represents the best-case scenario of a good politician: not a good person, but someone who wants to do good things with his naturally deceptive and win-at-all-costs psychological operating system.

Is this show getting a second season?

Yes R561

It was given a 2 season order off the bat. As was Ratched.

Netflix has invested a lot of money into Murphy, they are committed.

Season 2 seems inevitable, like season one was just the first act as it was with the Sabrina series.

I get the purpose of River as the too-good-for-this-world fantasy object, but Corenswet is so fucking charismatic the audience misses him much more than Murphy intended. An equally beautiful but less compelling actor might have kept the series more in balance.

But what am I talking about? Ryan Murphy's shows are NEVER in balance.

R556, R557, I had a friend who was like that. He was overly sensitive and carried the weight of the world on his shoulders. The world's ills depressed him and he frequently talked of committing suicide. His doctor put him on remeron and that ended the depression, but stifled his creativity and ability to feel deep emotion. But anyway, that someone so pretty and privileged as the River character would commit suicide makes sense to me.

Corenswet initially auditioned for the part of Ricardo, but apparently casting felt he would make a great River. This has served him well, because now everybody's fallen in love with him and want to see more of this beauty.

For the life of me, I can't picture him as Ricardo. Good call by casting.

Only on Datalounge would a good-looking actor in a tiny role get all of the adulation because he’s straight while the lead, a good-looking Tony winner, is ignored and disparaged because he’s openly gay. Sad.

Time for a bath and a nap, R568. You sound cranky.

You are surprised gay guys are into David Corenswet? He is gorgeous, as soon as he comes into the screen I knew he was going to generate a lot of internet obsession. And it is hardly just here, I was looking at Twitter when this came out.

There is a reason Ryan Murphy immediately put him in a starring role in his next series.

River is framed as the object of desire from almost the first scene of the series, when we see him half-naked in bed with his girlfriend. Every shot of him is lit lovingly, making an already handsome man look almost angelic. After his death, he continues to be an object of desire and regret for both the protagonist and one of the major antagonists, and when he appears in dream sequences it's as a literal guardian angel. And you wonder why he's getting attention?

Is it a part of the teenage fantasy that every mother in this show is unavailable? From Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy to Gwyneth Paltrow's "I have failed as a mother" monologue to the twins, it felt like every matriarch was an anchor holding back the aspired youths from being free. We're told that Ben Platt and Gwen have a loving relationship but even she plans on abandoning him twice before finally kissing him good bye at the train station. Fathers, as well, suffer from toxicity; with every one stringent to the point of suffocation- misbelieving it to be tough love. Like, all parental figures' role in this universe serve as an excuse to say "I'm messed up because my parents made me this way!"

Is the senator being in a throuple supposed to a way for Platt's charactor to confront his sexuality or will it be a "Well, that happened.." dropped plot point like the love triangle with Payton, his girlfriend and the bald kid?

Knowing Murphy, it will be a dropped plot point unless he needs it for some big, dramatic scene that works as a standalone piece but doesn't connect to anything else in the series.

I think it’s tremendous!

I hope they up the gay in season 2

R575 with who? Platt's character is with that blonde girl and the lesbians broke up.

[quote]It was given a 2 season order off the bat. As was Ratched.

But Netflix has a habit of cancelling shows after three seasons.

His rival for next season is Judith Light with her two bisexual guys. And it isn't going to be a damned drop plot point, it was literally the crucial reason Peyton decides he can run against her.

I think it’s interesting—and I’m not really sure whether in a good way or a bad way—that the kids are depicted as living a totally unbridled “free love” existence, sleeping with anyone and not one of them having any personal interest in sexual monogamy...and the whole setup for season two is to bring down an older politician with taboo sexuality.

I just finished the show tonight, at the urging of a friend. It's engaging and I have to say, I really enjoyed it. After seeing how they ended the season, I am excited for the next. That being said, it is uneven, some of the characters don't make a ton of sense. Platt can sometimes be pretty cute or fug from shot to shot. Overall, I would score this a solid series that has a lot of places it can go. And as many have said, Gwyneth was really quite good.

Why are y'all thirsting for David Corenswet's monotone ass when Benjamin Barrett is right there . smdh

That's because he looks gross and retarded.

Has this show been cancelled yet?

No. We've got season 2 coming next summer

Have the twins blown up yet? Any buzz?

The twins are not attractive. They are freakish looking. Almost inhuman.

r577's article is very interesting and worth a read.

We back

Just finished season 1. I actually kinda liked it but felt like I watched 3 different series in one season. The last episode was a nice setup for season 2.

Did the twins hook up with each other?

Yes, when they could no longer afford hookers.

The show is so over the top that I don't know whether r591 is joking.

Joking. The twins are the token straight white males of the show.

Is Ryan Murphy entering a creative slump?

Nobody want to talk about the hot ass Texan senator?

Season 2 has finished filming.

Season 2 trailer

LOL @ the comment - this season is full of Ben Platt's thickness.

There's a huge disconnect in the show when it tries to sell Platt's character as anything other than gay. It's positively Brechtian having such a mo pretend to be into women.

Midler and Light are having fun - I hope their characters win the election, Payton's a pampered rich kid and a sociopath

Theres a bit in the trailer where it looks like Platt, Corenswet and a blonde girl are having a threesome. Fantasy sequence from Platts character?