Democratic Debate Thread 2

Thread 2!

thank you!

Beto is not ready for this.

Beto is doing fine, putas.

Tulsi wasn't just weak on gay issues -- she ACTIVELY WORKED to deny gay rights well into the 2000s.

She wasn't just against gay marriage, she was against SAME-SEX UNIONS, for Christ's sake. This was about 10 years ago!

[quote]According to a 2017 profile in The New Yorker, Ms. Gabbard led a protest in 2004 against a bill to legalize civil unions for same-sex couples. That year she also spoke in the State House against a measure to combat anti-gay bullying in schools.

[quote]She said she objected to students being taught that homosexuality is “normal and natural” and feared that the anti-bullying resolution would mean “inviting homosexual-advocacy organizations into our schools to promote their agenda to our vulnerable youth,” according to The New Yorker.

DiBlasio likes to interrupt Beto.

I want to know what kind of underwear Beto wears. I'm thinking microfiber boxer briefs. With a pouch front for support.

I would pay a lot for a pair from him. Whew.... 💦🔥🔥

The guy way on the right isn't getting any time.

I have a pair. How much you offering?

Tulsi looks old.

If that homophobic Russian plant Tulsi Gabbard can't smooth her acne scars with a simple procedure, how can she smooth over tensions in the Middle East?

Tulsi looks great.

How are people still commenting on the first thread?

Having this woman on the panel is a waste. She has no chance of being the nominee.

Warren is now very quiet.

Warren got too quiet in the second half.

Tim Ryan sounds like a crazy hick who only knows about Ohio.

DiBlasio is coming off as another typical pushy New Yorker

The use of Spanish and the exaggerated pronunciation. Yeesh.

Good point, R12.

Tim Ryan seems more Republican than Democrat.

coming for China

only de Blasio says Russia

Inslee - you go, man!!!!!!!! The biggest threat = Trump!!!

I liked Inslee's answer.-- Trump.

It took Ryan to make Tulsi look good.

They don't need to destroy each other. A few will outshine.

R5 There were a great many Democrats outside of Liberal enclaves, that held such views in 2004.

Who's getting a boost from tonight?

Di Blasio is right. Russia will hack our 2020 election.

R8 fyi

Beto should have just said, Fuck Trump.

GODDAMN, BETO.

That was a great response with perfect historical context.

I’ve never seen a candidate on a debate stage who looks as out of place as Tim Ryan. Not necessarily his answers but I mean he literally looks like he’s on another planet. Has he been medicated?

Contrast this debate with the Republican debates for the 2016 nomination.

This is the first time I have seen Beto’s nose up close. Ummmmm......

Good moment for Beto.

Agreed, R35.

Overall the standouts tonight were Castro, Booker, and Warren. Beto seemed a bit out of his element.

You mean when Trump talked about the size of his cock? Now those debates were a joke.

So treason isn't a kitchen table issue? Okay, then.

Oh fuck yeah, r32. Thanks for that. 💦💦

When you see how many DL posts cover the candidates looks and makeup and clothes and hair, you can see how much trouble we’re in.

Lester was much better as a moderator than Chuck Todd.

"Who's getting a boost from tonight?"

The Food Network

Not just Trump, R41. All of them were clowns of one form or another.

Where's Liz now? She's been drowned out by Booker and Delaney.

Oh, please, R44. Get a new shtick and troll somewhere else.

I can’t stand Chuck Todd’s ugly goatee and chatty questions. He can hardly give the mic up to let the candidates speak.

r44 Agreed, I'm actually disappointed in DL a bit tonight because of that.

I think 10 people are too much. It gets too noisy. Next time, they should have 5 people. I have hardly heard Warren within the last hour.

We. Are. Doomed.

“candidate’s looks”, R44.

That Warren was quiet in the 2nd half isn't bad thing.

[quote]There were a great many Democrats outside of Liberal enclaves, that held such views in 2004.

Who actively WORKED AGAINST civil unions and basic rights for gays? No, there weren't.

From the 2004 DNC platform:

[quote]We support full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and seek equal responsibilities, benefits, and protections for these families.

Tulsi's positions were no different than those of Anita Bryant, 25 years after Anita was shitcanned by the general public.

Warren disappearing in hour 2

Cory & Tim disrespected me. I felt devastated. But my President called, and I feel much better now.

Hurry every body, Muriel has opened the gates

[QUOTE]Lester was much better as a moderator than Chuck Todd.

His glasses are just absolutely perfect for his face.

Oh, Less Nessbaum, bless your heart honey

I would have liked to see John Delaney and Bill DB constantly interrupting Bernie and Biden and the crotchety old man harrumphing they would have gotten in response.

Tim Ryan, Cory Booker, Jay Inslee, and John Delaney are all popping their eyes out so creepily!

Lindsey isn't that thin.

"Les Nessman"

lol

Is the MSNBC crew moderating tomorrow's debate also?

Delaney is annoying. Deblasio too.

Lester always looks sharp.

I wanna taste Beto's cum.

de Blasio wasn't as nasty as I thought

why does the screen keep going black

Inslee has old man voice sorry not gonna work. Love his climate change stance but no

I don't like Delaney, DiBlasio, Tulsi, Ryan or Castro.

Hopefully Tulsi will be out after this poor performance and half the white guys nobody knows,

Castro is too defensive.

I just don't get the Beto is hot deal

Tulsi really destroyed Ryan. How embarrassing for him.

De Blasio simultaneously looks overweight and like he's dying of cancer. Quite an accomplishment.

R71, you’re funny.

[QUOTE]Inslee has old man voice sorry not gonna work. Love his climate change stance but no

Inslee’s voice is fine. He’d destroy Trump in a debate.

Castro is hot

Tim Ryan fix those under eye bags omfg

Castro is not hot LOL

R55, actually it is. People only remember the last thing they heard. Warren didn't say much at all in the second half, thus everything in the first half she said will be forgotten

R71, I'm exactly the same. Not a fan. Everyone else is ok.

Tim Ryan, please pack your knives and go

Shut up Gabbard.

Didn't expect this debate to be such a rowdy dogfight. WOW....

Bye bye Beto, Ryan, Gabbard and DiBlasio.

Warren will be fine

Booker and Castro and Kobuchar will go up

Beto TANKING

Tim Ryan looks and talks like every blue-collar white guy in the Rust Belt.

Chuck Todd's goatee is so Real World Norm, circa 1992.

So who's out after this? I think Delaney, Gabbard, Inslee, Ryan, De Blasio for a start.

Oh man. Why is Castro starting his concluding remarks in Spanish? Yuck.

Get your bottom teeth fixed, Castro!

Tim Ryan acts like a Republican. Go away.

Less Nessbaum Superstah!!!!

R88 but with an added creepy affect, like he’s been abducted by aliens

[QUOTE]People only remember the last thing they heard. Warren didn't say much at all in the second half, thus everything in the first half she said will be forgotten

Don’t worry, the media will be sure to cover for Liz and somehow declare her the winner of tonight. They love her.

Biden will win the nom so what's the point?

is Amy too moderate for liberals?

WTF stop the screen going black

I hope tomorrow Mayor Pete will speak all 7 languages that he can.

Beto will start speaking Spanish because Castro did.

Third, I eat salad with a comb.

Julian Castro is the surprise to me. I'm going to take him seriously from now on.

I nslee, Booker, and Warren move forward, Everyone else can be voted off the island.

I AM SPARTACUS!!!!

Beto is awesome.

if Booker had a body I'd hit it. He's a bit overweight though even though he's a vegetarian

if Beto shaved the bridge of his nose he'd be hot. It's too odd shaped naturally

What are you seeing r105? Real question, because he just spoke platitudes. I haven't heard a single plan from him.

Not an awesome debater, R105.

R87 yep

Inslee, Booker, Castro and Warren will move forward.

Beto should stop talking.

PUT A BABY IN ME, BETO!

maybe I watch too much news but I've heard this Warren speech several times

inslee is handsome in a fly-fisherman way

night 1 over

tomorrow's going to be a fucking MESS

Good Close, Liz!

I like Booker and Warren.

aww Warren Booker hug

R84, funny. I know the reference.

r112 he is very plane. I don't use this term much, but this love affair with Beto is white privilege at the max. Booker is the best looking guy on the stage, but he's black so he get's deducted points.

I believe in Liz when she said she'd fight for everyone. Very convincing closing speech, Liz.

r114 - He reminds me of Randolph Scott.

[quote] "Les Nessman"

As God as My Witness I Thought Turkeys Could Fly

I'd say Warren, Castro, Amy, move forward.

R120 I'd be there for Booker if he had a body. He's a bit fat though

Castro is like... He's big on being foreign. I don't like the vibe.

On CNN, will Dana Bash be interviewing Rudy for his take?

Liz went in for a deep hug to Castro afterwards

R56 The national political platform in no way represents the views of individual members of the party. I knew many Democrats in 2004, who held similar views. Do you remember Kim Davis, she was elected as a Democrat in 2014.

I knew one woman who remained an active Democrat until, Obama endorsed gay marriage, then she became a Republican, until Trump gave Peter Thiel the keynote speaker position at the GOP convention, now I don't know what party she is a part of, because she is convinced that the Democrats AND the GOP have both been taken over by the "gays."

God the pundits in MSNBC are out of touch. Castro was the star? Please.

Warren was too quiet. I bet Booker's polling will go up.

A psychic said she didn't see the 2020 nominee as a female. She said a masculine energy will dominate.

lol Claire finds de Blasio "mildly irritating"

Hail the conquering hero!

^^^Well if a random psychic said it, that's that

no one went after Warren how interesting

I lke Inslee. He just doesn't have the national recognition he deserves. He's a big man, really powerful looking. The person who debates Trump would have to be a more powerful presence.

Castro came off as petty. It was obvious he came for Beto. At least try to hide your hate.

How to answer a question in Betoesque:

"How will you control corruption on Wall Street?"

"Well, I was at an office party for workers at the Stock Exchange and I saw the horrible conditions that they they had to endure. No standing desks. An open office design. No personal space. TV monitors hung so not all could see them. This is one of the main issues of my campaign and I will see to it that the ones responsible will be negotiated with robustness!"

Everyone's all about the migrant camps. Very little about the economy. The Spanish stuff is a turn-off.

[quote]A psychic said she didn't see the 2020 nominee as a female. She said a masculine energy will dominate.

Okay, Sylvia Browne.

You can't really judge a candidate over a rushed debate where everyone speaks over one another.

MSNBC is like half Spanish right now. The host is speaking half in Spanish.

I like Cory Booker but I think he might be too soft spoken.

I think they all did pretty well. All of them should be proud of their performances. I LIKE how they did not talk about Trump. We all know that Trump is a wreck. I heard more ideas and solutions. I like that.

I still don’t know which one is Inslee? Is that the bald one?

They don't go after the front runner, the one who could be the nominee. Unlike some old coot in 2016.

Beto's all about trying to relate to everyone and making it more personalized than policy based

r129, why are you defending Tulsi Gabbard's incredibly shitty record on gay rights? As was pointed out, she wasn't even neutral, she was openly ANTAGONISTIC until just a few years ago.

This was 2004, for fuck's sake:

[quote]"To try to act as if there is a difference between 'civil unions' and same-sex marriage is dishonest, cowardly and extremely disrespectful to the people of Hawaii," Gabbard said at the time. "As Democrats we should be representing the views of the people, not a small number of homosexual extremists."

She was endorsed by DAVID DUKE. To her credit, she rejected the endorsement, but Jesus Christ.

To each their own. I don't think there is anything attractive about Booker.

The two African-American pundits on MSNBC are treating Beto down. He's both pandering and not speaking to communities of color supposedly.

Who were the fucktards that said they wanted to work with the Repulitrumps?

This thread seems pretty consistent: Winners Warren, Castro, Booker. Loser Beto.

they mentioned trump a few times

Jay Inslee’s looks are like a handsome version of Mike Pence somehow.

tim ryan's gonna get flamed for "elital" if he's not completely overlooked/forgotten

[quote]She said a masculine energy will dominate.

Klobuchar

I think the pushy New York mayor and Warren won.

Booker lost all voters who still use Facebook.

no one likes de Blasio lol he's seen as obnoxious and he won't get the support

Chris Matthews: “The winner tonight was Joe Biden.”

Why does MSNBC continue to employ this buffoon?

Mr. Booker, we would like to speak to you tomorrow.

when is the next debate? not tomorrow I mean the next round of debates

Booker looked very restrained and composed here; very different from his normally screeching scary mode.

Chris Matthews the blowhard WOULD say he liked blowhard DiBlasio's performance.

Does anyone still takes Chris Matthews opinions seriously?

How ridiculous. How are you judging the "winner?" Hardly anyone got to talk without being rushed or interrupted. There were too many candidates up there. And the short guy seemed like he had something to prove. "Look how I can be mean! I'll be mean to Trumpy, too!"

everyone's surprised De Blasio and Castro went after Beto

Castro definitely topped him

Nate Silver: ...one takeaway from that is that this debate won’t move the needle all *that* much, other than maybe a modest bump for like Gabbard and Castro or something. But this is also the sort of debate where the post-debate narrative (i.e. the spin) could shape perceptions quite a bit and matter more than the debate itself.

Yeah, Chris Matthews just made a fool of himself.

Rachel Maddow came off like a bitch.

R163, He was using Democratix. Calming, and stops idiocy temporarily.

She had to. They wouldn't stop talking.

R148 I am against judging her for her actions 15 years ago, when she was in state office. She "evolved" and has been a strong supporter during her entire time in national office. I like that she is a strong supporter of civil liberties, which many others on that stage are not. I have other problems with her, but she should be judged by her current record, not her history.

Beto was just dumbstruck on the stage and became an easy target for mauling.

Rachel was a bitch? No, Beto was MY bitch

I thought DiBlasio did well. I don't think that it will move him but I think his reputation was helped a lot.

Winners: Warren, Castro, Booker Middle of the Pack: DeBlasio, Inslee, Klobuchar Losers: Delaney, Gabbard, Beto, Ryan, Delaney

Tomorrow I'm sure Bernie will jump on the stage and attack Kamala first.

MSNBC has excellent interviewers like Chris Hayes and Lawrence O'Donnell but they leave them in NYC and let someone like Matthews interview people.

Beto had a train run on him tonight. He was the bukake victim

Beto blew. Unfortunately not me.

R173, If I wanted an "evolved" candidate, I would pick one that made the progression from a Devonian Slime Worm to human. That would be evolution.

Ryan, Gabbard, DeBlasio, Ensley and the bald guy .....drop out now

We haven't had actual debates in years, like they said on the West Wing, they are nothing more than joint press conferences.

R180 - LOL. An image of group wank by DiBlasio, Booker and Castro on Beto. LOL

Nate Silver. They guy that blew the last election?

Booker has hazel/gray eyes--beautiful color I gotta say. I hate being trivial.

I think Liz Warren was obviously the strongest person on stage. It was right that she didn't speak much in the second half because they gave her so much time in the first half and you could see the others were disturbed she got so much time.

Something about the way Beto speaks made me tune out every time he talked. Liz Warren is the opposite. You always have to pay attention because of her passion.

Chuck Todd should lose his job. He is an AWFUL lightweight. Rachel probably detests him (just a guess).

Some of it was cringeworthy ....how do I say that in Spanish ??

who knew Beto was a bottom?

Eugene Robinson said Beto didn't have a good night, and that's good enough for me!

Eugene Robinson hems and haws too much.

I've never heard of this Gabbard woman. Has Trump insulted her yet?

I thought Warren, Booker, Beto, Amy K were interchangeable. Castro made best impression. Debalsio and Gabbard were "scrappiest"

Tonight's Spanish rambling thingie reminded me of Tim Kaine's nauseating veep debate 3 years ago. Ewww... Yuck....

[quote]I am against judging her for her actions 15 years ago, when she was in state office. She "evolved" and has been a strong supporter during her entire time in national office.

So you're on an LGB message board, but you're not for judging her hateful actions in statewide office against ... LGB people. Got it, Toots. If you're not a troll, then you're more deluded than the Log Cabinettes.

If 2019 is ancient history, here's something a bit more recent.

Beto was given a lot of attention. Unfortunately for him. He is not yet ready for the national stage. Born for this ?? Nope.

Fuck Chuck Todd. I thought he was talking way too much.

Who held the floor in night one?

Number of words spoken by each candidate during night one of the first Democratic debate Candidate Words spoken Cory Booker 2181 Beto O’Rourke 1932 Elizabeth Warren 1637 Chuck Todd (moderator) 1633 Amy Klobuchar 1614 Julián Castro 1588 Tim Ryan 1383 Tulsi Gabbard 1243 Rachel Maddow (moderator) 1163 John Delaney 1060 Lester Holt (moderator) 1001 Bill de Blasio 881 Jay Inslee 875 Savannah Guthrie (moderator) 748 Jose Diaz-Balart (moderator) 377

[quote]Tonight's Spanish rambling thingie reminded me of Tim Kaine's nauseating veep debate 3 years ago. Ewww... Yuck....

Here's how Dems get a control of that narrative. Republicans will try to push this as Mexico, Latinos, etc invading. Dems need to position it that one is INTELLIGENT and EDUCATED because they can speak more than one language

If they went after Gabbard's past sins tonight, you know they are going after Pete's current ones (police issues) tomorrow. Be prepared, Pete.

So fucking sick of Gabbard flogging her "I ENLISTED and SERVED in the military!" line.

R195 Which she disavowed. David Duke, crawls out of his basement every four years to make an announcement, just to get on the news, and people keep falling for it and giving him the publicity he craves.

People's views can change, she has apologized and supported the gay community. I accept that and therefore judge her by her actions since her views changed.

Pete will be speaking Spanish tomorrow

SO EVIL!

Lindsey Graham Verified account @LindseyGrahamSC

After tonight’s #DemocraticDebate.......that whole Trump 3rd term thing is looking better and better.

Pete will start off speaking Norwegian, fuck Spanish.

Broken Spanish doesn't make them more intelligent though.

[quote]Tim Ryan 1383

All 1383 words of logorrhea.

Warren seems to have the momentum. Good.

Any use of Spanish... Not a fan.

Ms Lindsey must be all moist seeing Booker so butch tonight.

tomorrow Sanders will spar with Biden

I expect a few to go after Buttigieg for his police shooting fiasco

Today is a 6 tomorrow is a 10

when is the CNN Detroit debate? hopefully the field will be cleaved in half by then

Shut up, Lindsey, you embarrassing tub of shit.

[quote]If I wanted an "evolved" candidate, I would pick one that made the progression from a Devonian Slime Worm to human. That would be evolution.

Please welcome to the stage ... DE'VONIA SLIMEWORM

[quote]Lindsey Graham Verified account @LindseyGraham After tonight’s #DemocraticDebate.......that whole Trump 3rd term thing is looking better and better.

That would necessitate a 3rd term abortion.

Sad how far up Trump's ass that Graham has gone. The tea that the Trump administration has on Lindsay must be baaaaaaaaad.

Warren confirmed her status as frontrunner (not just tonight, but she, Biden, and Bernie are likely to win). She repeats the same points over and over - her stump speech. But that's a way to create a coherent message, and she's able to say it with passion, authenticity. I really believe she'll fight for working Americans just like she fights for her family. Castro did the best to improve his position. He was natural, powerful, detailed. The three tickets possible: Biden-Abrams; Harris-Buttigieg; Warren-Castro.

Did anyone else hear what Casrtro was pushing? He wants to make it legal to enter into this country without notice, basically anyone and everyone can come on over. I don't know what to do as Democrat when it comes to immigration. Some people seem to want to open the flood gates with total disregard for drastic changes it will cause. We are a nation of immigrants, slaves and native Americans, all three of those segments were still regulated under the law when they settled.

I feel like I'm not allowed to talk about immigration without being accused as racist or a Trump supporter. Is anyone else alarmed at Castro's radical ideas? I say radical because I don't know of any country with open boarders in the world. Even Mexico has tougher immigration policies than the US, yet we are made to be the bad guy for wanting to regulate the movement of people over our boarders.

Am I crazy or am I an out of touch millennial (under 30 years old here)?

I liked Castro, but when the talked about trans-women in reference to abortion, I was like WHAT?

Trans women CAN NOT have abortions.

Castro is not advocating for open borders. That's a right wing talking point.

r198 the majority of voters payers speak english. Maybe if the government made a huge push for mandatory Spanish language classes then this would be acceptable, but we don't have that in America. This si similar to candidates talking infrastructure but using the metric systems to talk about distance.

Oh god Lawrence O'Donnell and Donnie Deutsch (sp?) - Donnie saying nobody on that stage could beat Trump in a debate head to head. Lawrence telling him he's full of shit.

Castro just now on CNN said, "people say we want an open border, that's a Right Wing talking point, we have miles of fencing and walls, we have strong protections... we don't want an open border." Additionally during the debate he was the only one who spoke about trying to actually make conditions better in Central America to reduce the pressure of migration.

r219 then why is he pushing to decriminalize the illegal boarder crossings? If it's not against the law, then the government can't really go after the problem. In essence that's saying come on in, right? I'm not trying to be inflammatory but he was trying to force everyone on stage to support the decriminalization of illegal boarder crossing.

I'll vote for the Dem candidate but I won't vote in the primaries for anyone who uses Spanish.

Howard Fineman breaks with consensus to say Booker sucked.

Howard Fineman‏Verified account @howardfineman 23m23 minutes ago

My first-night scorecard. UP, in order of movement from pre-debate position; Castro, Klobuchar, diBlasio, Delaney, Warren.

DOWN, by same criteria: Beto (big time), Ryan, Inslee, Booker.

Ok r222, but those fences and everything don't stop people from crossing. he's trying to be smart with that answer, when he was also the guy on stage pushing to make it legal for people to enter this country without going through customs. I can use another term than open boarders, but we all heard what he was talking about.

Streisand 2020

R226, again with the open BOARDERS? Dude.

Klobuchar's voice was always shaky form nerves, she did not do well in my opinion. We can't have stage fright candidates like Beto and Klobuchar on a stage against the most successful reality TV star in the world. I'll take a fighter like Warren.

People miss these points because they want to buy "all immigration is illegal" This is partially racists, but mostly simple minded. 1) asking for asylum should not be illegal. There are, in fact, legal precedents to establish that. When refugees fled Nazi Germany and came to the US in boats, they were not treated as criminals.

r228 Spanish is my native language sorry. Borders.

[quote]I'll vote for the Dem candidate but I won't vote in the primaries for anyone who uses Spanish.

Girl, you need to fix that there screen door on you all's trailer before them wasps come on in and snort your meth!

r230 very good points, but those people still came to ports of entry. Some were turned away, many were welcomed into America. Every country has similar processes and should be able to make that decision. There are millions of illegal immigrants in this country that either overstayed visas or snuck into the country, that is a specific issues that many Democratic candidates try to wash over by mixing it with legal immigrants and asylum seekers.

Trump is going to push very hard to frame this election about immigration, his strongest policy. Similar to Bush in 2004, Trump is going to use the one issue that the country is rather conservative on to eek out a win. I think policies like Castros are dead on arrival in the general. Let's just pick up the the failed gang of 8 bill, add some 2020 woke language and move on to economic and healthcare issues that Dems can win on. We will not beat Republicans on the immigration debate.

like it or not but the Latino community is important in the Democratic vote. It's wise for candidates to be able to at least converse in Spanish.

2/3 Latino voters went for Clinton in 2016.

We need that number higher

R230, there's international law, and there's how people feel about it. Some of us don't want certain people coming. For me, it's a matter of education level and field of study. But others have other reasons.

Also, it's almost impossible to deport after they enter the country having applied for asylum. ~85% chance they're still here a decade after having their asylum applications rejected. Endless appeals, etc. It's a thing.

I'm not a New Yorker and don't know why everybody hates diBlasio but he looked like the only one who could trounce Trump in a debate.

[quote]I'm not a New Yorker and don't know why everybody hates diBlasio but he looked like the only one who could trounce Trump in a debate.

I think Elizabeth Warren would reduce Trump to a blob of quivering orange adipose tissue in a two-hour debate.

r234 88% of black voters supported Hillary, yet they spent more time talking in Spanish or fighting over immigration. Another day, another group of Dems taking the black vote for granted. I'll exclude Cory, De Blasio, and Warren. Beto might have said something but I fell asleep during his wandering answers.

It's too big an attack point to say you want to abolish private health insurance. Reparations is another one that's a non-starter. And also, Castro's decriminalizing illegal immigration - or turning it into a civil not a criminal offense. That's too easily attacked by the right.

I just want a Dem in there so the stacking of the courts will stop. The future is more important than anything right now - whether it's abolishing insurance or easing up on the border. How's anybody gonna do that with a Republican Senate?

And a lot of seniors have chosen private Medicare Advantage - so their choice will be abolished?

r236 I almost want to see De Blasio take on Trump because he interrupts people and it drive Trump in sane when people speak over him. The I remember what a disappointment he is for NYC and I go back to the comfort of Mama Warren.

r239, thank you.

I have a crush on Lawrence O'Donnell, love to hear his analysis

yeah but remember in the VP debate in 2016. Fucking moderates didn't like how aggressive Tim Kaine was against mild mannered idiot Pence.

so I don't know if a pushy Democrat would be popular

They didn't like that Tim Kaine came off as your grandmas yelping lap dog. He had no style.

Trump must be so upset his name was barely mentioned.

FUCK!

Obama met with Beto personally, and David Axelrod is advising his campaign, and neither of them steered him toward a speech coach?

FUCK!!

This viral off-the-cuff answer about 'taking a knee' and racism is the whole reason why he became a real contender in the Texas Senate race. Why has no one advised him to do more of the same?

The truth is that he's not terribly bright, R246. When faced with some quick and intelligent people, he crashes. He's a trust-fund baby who thinks he's entitled to be president.

Castro seems snitty, there is something about him I don't care for but if he was the nominee I would hold my nose and vote for him

I don't get all the praise for Booker. It just seems to me that he [emphatically] rolled out a list of vague platitudes.

Beto is a knob. Truly a stupid man.

[quote] I don't know of any country with open boarders in the world.

Well, that would be one way to get skaters to the polls on November.

People from San Antonio say he’s an arrogant asshole.

Castro looks like a Zika baby drag queen.

this

Obviously, pandering prevailed and Thursday nights' candidates will benefit by seeing what worked and especially what didn't resonate tonight.  Warren excelled, as expected.  Booker went up for me; articulate, commanding, dare I say, almost 'presidential' and I expect a similar performance from Buttigieg.  The one I was most pleasantly surprised with was Inslee; who has a strong, yet calm, 'alpha' vibe.  Castro had some solid moments.  O'Rourke is likable, but lacks gravitas.  I found Gabbard insincere, albeit scrappy in her exchange with Ryan.  Delaney was WAY out of his element.  Ryan's annunciation was atrocious and he, too, was out of his league.

Well, I enjoyed the debate. It was better than sports!

Thursday, Pete and Yang will dominate Biden and Bernie. No one will care about the others.

I'm for Biden but Warren clearly won tonight.

Yang needs to be really different. A little outrageous. I think he'll refuse to rag on white males. That's kind of notable about him.

😁👍

Yang's campaign manager is a stud.

Kind of Trumpy.

I'm kinda intrigued as how to Marianne is going to fit into the debate lol she's really "out there"

Marianne is more in touch with reality than Beto. And she's tough as nails. Should be fun.

Genius. Follow him by July 4 to win $1000/month.

Warren - akin to her polling, steady and elevating in this first, brief forum of Dem 2020 candidates

Castro - surprisingly effective in conveying his positions to distinguish himself. Will this be his early candidate updraft like his predecessors, Beto and Pete? And will his authentic self be revealed as time (and Texans!) know him; only to later flame out?

Booker - maintained more of an even disposition than anticipated. But again, his eyes revealed (meme worthy) looks. It is always the eyes that provide a window to the soul. And his, bless his heart, are darkened and obscured by challenges in his own closet.

Beto - I am sorry to say, struggled through the evening. There were reports that he may have been ill and his body language signalled his discomfort. His meandering discourse and confusing rhetoric (in Spanglish), only served to punctuate concerns of inexperience and poor policy.

Klobuchar - appeared nervous; yet repressibly contained. Someone likened her to their "high school assistant principal who played nice but could erupt over the smallest incident". Somehow thoughts of flying book binders and salads eaten with combs flashed when she subtly stumbled over a few of her responses.

De Blasio - speaking of stumbling, this candidate had a very New York manner of stumbling into other folks' discussions during this first Dem debate. (Since leaving Manhattan, I've been out of the NYC loop during De Blasio's tenure.). He could certainly get scrappy. And with his height, pair well in a debate with Trump. Trump and Trump-Lite. Now understand what NY folks have been saying: do we want him?

Gabbard - agree with poster above in regards to her rehearsed performance. Insincere? And also second that she was scrappy: that interaction with .....

..Ryan - who appeared out of his depth. (Flipping on his foreign policy of "engagement", confusion over 9/11 and frustrated posturing, etc.)

Delaney - similarly seemed to flounder. His ability to acknowledge basic cues (time limit calls,etc) raised red flags

Inslee - was also a pleasant surprise. He had the least amount of time; but he exuded a calm confidence which when combined with his corporeal presence (height) was intriguing. Noticed he wore a green tie which ties into his green platform of climate change. (As a scientist with experience inside and out of the U.S., I have been seeing changes firsthand in the environment that are seriously worrisome. Many folks in the U.S. (current administration) seem oblivious to these deteriorations. It's a big deal that's only going to escalate, unfortunately.) Don't know much about Inslee, but would be interested in hearing of folks' impressions of him in Washington.

Beto was a mess.

Looking forward to Uncle Joe!

am I nuts? I thought beto did great, and looked like a million bux.

warren seemd a bit mousey

Todd and Matthews should be fired.

I also love Lawrence O'Donnell ,, only witty adult at MSNBC

Rachel and her hysterical laughter, ugh!

Why do they always stick Chris Hayes in the doghouse at these do's? He's smart as a whip (if a little manic - coke?)

People complaining that they should have talked more about the economy and less about the fucking concentration camps (in the US!) need to get grip. You want a better economy? Tax people progressively, increase the corporation tax, and then invest that into education and science. That's it, that's the whole art of the national economy.

And complaining about the second most widely-used language in the US being employed in... what, 5% of the debate? Stop acting like deplorables and learn another fucking language already. Honestly, posters pointing out that they can't understand a word and acting like they should be proud of that fact make me embarrassed for them. I thought DL had more intelligent contributors than that.

[quote]am I nuts? I thought beto did great, and looked like a million bux.

Yes. You’re nuts. Beto was a disaster.

Diblasio did really well. Klobuchar looked like she was wearing a wig. The Spanish stuff was dumb.

I hope I'm wrong but I'm pissed that Warren insists on abolishing the health insurance industry. The people who have the "fancy" insurance because of their work will be pissed off. The people who waited till 65 for the reward will be pissed. They'll think - shit, now it'll be like Medicaid with everybody on it.

The people involved in the industry will go into overdrive to defeat her because it's an existential threat to their billions in profit. The Medicare Advantage people will be pissed because they CHOSE the private option already over the public option. The people who search for every complaint against the NHS or Canadian waiting times will go into overtime - and if you watch any British news at all, somebody's always pissed off about problems with the NHS...

It's fine to offer a public option that is cheaper and better - and wait till people understand that - but to LEAD with the plan of shocking everybody into a new system is political suicide imo.

Now please let me be wrong. If it weren't for that one thing, she'd be my first choice but fuck it - why go with someone with a fatal flaw. With a gun to my head, I'd vote for DeBlasio, to tear Trump up and turn into a crying baby because the man cannot handle confrontation, he's horrified when a guy's taller than him, etc....

Oh and I just remember doctors, especially specialists. Are there many who are on the 100% gov't run healthcare system? I doubt it. And they're powerful and have money and clout.

The AMA blocked Harry Truman's plan for universal healthcare in the 1940s for god sake.

I also liked beto. he speaks from his heart, I love that

Warren is aiming for single-payer healthcare as her goal. She’s going to have to compromise along the way on some things to make progress. I’m confident she understands the nuances involved.

Chuck Todd's comb-forward: no. Just no. Dude, just shave it or accept that your hairline has receded to the Deep South.

Tulsi Gabbard is a nutball Hare Krishna wackjob, but she's right about Afghanistan.

Then she should say so, R277. She's painted a huge target on herself that most people won't be reasonable enough to stop and consider the "nuances."

We're talking about a country that elected Trump!

Delaney: Twice ignored reminders his time was over. 5.

Inslee: I'm sorry, but he looks panicked and he doesn't have the affect a President in the TV era needs. He's right about the climate, of course. I'm glad he is here to yell about this issue.

Tim Ryan: Good themes. "Ready to play some offense". Homeless. He has a good message and he clearly cares. Ran over his time, though.

Castro: I like him and I like hearing the Spanish. He has no business running now, of course. But he gives a good interview and he's a talented person.

Klobuchar: You won in the reddest of districts? No you didn't. You won in Minnesota. Yes, in a red district, but still, in Minnesota. She does eat salad with a comb though

Booker: I really like this guy and feel he's under-appreciated in this race. He looks the part and sounds the part. I give him an 8

Many were desperate to be heard, then there was Warren.

[quote]She’s going to have to compromise along the way on some things to make progress.

The hard truth is unless the Dems take the Senate also, there isn't going to be any notable legislative progress period. For all the nice policy talk, the most likely scenario is a Dem who beats Trump will make a difference in their appointments of judges and cabinet positions.

which is super important

but people in san Antonio saying he is a creep, not good...(castro)

Frankly, I was embarrassed for most of last night's contestants. Bedo looked like he was scared to death every time they asked him a question. But they all demonstrated the very reason I have such distrust of most politicians. They were evasive, obstinate, accusatory, self serving, and frankly just typical politicians. Even down to that silly hand gesture most all politicians use when they ball up their hand with their thumb on top of the index finger. I've often wondered if that ridiculous gesture is taught to politicians somewhere. After Bedo did his translation in Spanish during his first answer you could just see some of the others thinking "shit, I'm gonna have to show everybody that I'm fluent in Spanish too so I won't look dumb". Booker who was looking over at Bedo as if he was thinking "what the fuck?"). It was laughable.

But that group last night reeked of "the don't have a chance in hell at winning" group. I dearly hope tonight's group has their act more together and doesn't stand up there looking like deer in the headlights.

BEdo?

And, clearly R291 is the troll. How did you find this site, troll? Who are you working for? You see... even if you are not a Democrat or even sympathetic to the Democratic ideology, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have objectively viewed that debate last night and not come away knowing that quite a few of the candidates had very strong moments while others had very strong nights!

BE GONE. TROLL! Go get your dildo and go fuck yourself!

I'd give him a pass if it happened once, but he typed "Bedo" three damn times.

I adore beto~~~~~~~

I like Beto a lot as a human being, he has this very earnest quality and wears his emotions of his sleeve which you don't see a lot of in politicians.

But he is not the choice to be the Dem nominee.

OH. MY. GOD! Whoever did the overview edits for the Stephanie Ruehl show on MSNBC deserves an OSCAR! The person caught all of the excitement of the night and most importantly the compelling messages! It nearly caused me to weep.

Stephanie Ruhle is a big turd.

I’m just hoping Beto gets to a VP spot.

Castro was a bully towards Beto. Someone pointed out that he’s jealous that Beto speaks better Spanish than he does. Which, by the way, he speaks very little of it and has admitted he is trying to learn it as fast as he can. Pathetic, frankly.

Julian Castro's family has been in America since like 1920. Yes, he isn't fluent in Spanish, just like many third generation Italian-Americans don't know Italian.

I'm not even the biggest fan of the guy, but it seems ignorant to think that all latinos are fresh off the boat and of course know Spanish.

I found Beto’s opening answer in tortured Spanish to be gratuitous and pandering. My estimation of him didn’t improve by evening’s end.

Beto needs to drop out and run against Cornyn for the Texas Senate. I like Beto, but he's not prepared enough for a Presidential race. His one prime issue, immigration at the border, needs policy development that is more pragmatic.

R302 A Dem female is already running against Cornyn. Beto should drop out now and disappear.

[quote]I found Beto’s opening answer in tortured Spanish to be gratuitous and pandering.

One Hispanic pundit called it "D" grade level Spanish rather than "A" level

I know someone that used to work with the IT director at the Arsht Center. Those tech gaffes were not a surprise to them.

I can't believe there are some Beto fans here. He's more style than substance. He seems like a nice guy who means well but he's not qualified or knowledgeable enough for Democratic standards. We aren't the repubs who elect know-nothings like Trump

R293 You're clearly a deranged fool. I've been on this site very likely for far more years than you have. So GO FUCK YOURSELF, you childish lunatic. You're one of those crazed nitwits who has a breakdown every time someone says something that differs from your opinion. You need mental help.

It was hot to watch Castro alpha dog Beto into oblivion

Bedo/Beto, who cares. He's way out of his league.

R291 = A Bernie troll who is willing to burn the house down again if Warren wins the nomination in 2020.

Hardly R310. I'm a Joe Biden guy. Quite frankly I'd accept any of the others except for Sanders who seems like he might be a bit touched in the head. But I'm not worried since Sanders is even higher on the "not a chance in hell" ladder than BETO. See, I got it right that time. LOL

Washington Post: Analysis: Winners and losers from the Democratic presidential debate’s first night

@R311-- Sure, you are Jan

Every media outlet just concluded that Beto was a big loser. Maybe he should drop out and go home.

Nah, Castro should actually be a little embarrassed for not speaking Spanish any better than he does. I wonder why that is.

This is Texas, everyone knows a little Spanish unless they're going out of their way NOT to learn. It should have been especially easy for him to pick up in San Antonio.

[quote] I'm a Joe Biden guy. Quite frankly I'd accept any of the others except for Sanders who seems like he might be a bit touched in the head.

And just listen to her here! After ripping the all of the CANDIDATES (she calls them contestants) apart in R291, she says that she is really a Biden supporter. Honey, please....

Don't you know that we've gotten real good here on DL. We can almost spot a troll before they click the post button. We have to be here on DL because we are under attack by you and your ilk. You're not fooling anyone--especially us here. We know who you are and we know what you are....

last night was the warmup. Tonight should be quite interesting

Biden, Sanders, Kamala, Buttigieg all together.

Hickenlooper will come for socialist Sanders

Gilibrand, Swalwell and Yang will all look for breakout moments

Bennett will be the middle American appeal

Marianne? idk

Michael Wolfe @michaelrwolfe

I was just in France, where the waiters speak five languages, but Americans are impressed when a Presidential candidate can speak bad Spanish?

here's the thing. I agree Americans should learn Spanish BUT it makes no sense to compare to Europe. Europe is a bunch of small countries so learning more than 1 language is often necessary.

r318 I'm sick of that line. Pragmatically (and geographically), most Americans have no need to speak another language. Someone who grew up and lives in the EU does.

I'm not saying Americans aren't provincial -- we are. But don't compare the US with the EU on this issue.

I have a reading knowledge of several languages, acquired when I got my PhD. But unless I travel, I don't need a speaking knowledge of them.

so the Detroit debates are July 30-31

I guess that means 2 nights again but hopefully less candidates

The ability to read/write more than just English is great, BUT trying to show it off in a political debate which doesn't require that ability is just ridiculous. And it is not needed in job requirements either.

R316 I suggest you go change your sanitary pad. You seen to be, unfresh. You're beginning to draw flies.

[quote]The ability to read/write more than just English is great, BUT trying to show it off in a political debate which doesn't require that ability is just ridiculous.

I would agree. But, it could be revealing too. Beto, is being CREAMED because of the level of his Spanish. Cory Booker? Who knew?

BERN BRO already getting ready for tonight's debate with out-of-season attire.

[quote][R316] I suggest you go change your sanitary pad. You seen to be, unfresh. You're beginning to draw flies.

No where near the stench that you have brought to us and this board, Mr. Biden supporter....

R315, for a second, I thought that was Tulsi in that gif.

[quote]Beto, is being CREAMED because of the level of his Spanish. Cory Booker? Who knew?

The rules of fair play do not apply in love and war, yes, and in a political war. People had high expectations for Beto. Cory, not so much.

Tonight I will see Bernie jumping on Kamala for her past as an overzealous prosecutor. He has been delegating those vicious attacks to his friends at the Intercept for the past year with almost 20 hit pieces already. Now he will do the dirty deed himself on stage tonight. Miami is burning!

[quote] We are a nation of immigrants, slaves and native Americans, all three of those segments were still regulated under the law when they settled.

Immigration wasn’t regulated until after the civil war. And then it started with a law blocking Chinamen, because the Whites were ascared of them.

[quote]Tonight I will see Bernie jumping on Kamala for her past as an overzealous prosecutor.

Bernie, has reached the hysteria zone now. He is one who believed his own press and was blinded when he was taken to Mount Olympus with all the popularity, adoration, and MONEY, that he received the last go around. But, he's no longer the flavor of the month and apparently having a hard time accepting this. In my opinion, Bernie is dangerous now.

R324 I don't know how much attention it got but Booker actually gave an interview on 1 of the Spanish language channels earlier this year

I mean he's got a heavy American accent but so what

^ I vaguely remember that. But, it wasn't something that was really remembered. To me, it was more effective last night. Everyone, (even the son of God) are supposedly impressed with Beto speaking Spanish and therefore "reaching the Latino" community. Ha! WELL... Cory and Castor whupped his ass in that area. Beto is being destroyed in press because everyone took it as pandering.

The percentage of foreign born people here today is about where it was when the “Know Nothings” protested immigration in the 19th Century. It seems that we can only handle so much change, in the form of immigrants, happening at once.

I don’t have a problem with enforcing a cap on immigration in a compassionate way. But Trump’s way is just sadistic. I wonder what it would cost to stabilize the Central America countries that are the source of the immigrants? Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala. Aren’t they the source of the immigrants? Is it within our ability to stabilize them? I hear no talk of this at all.

"Any use of Spanish... Not a fan."

Being able to speak more than one language is for those evil elitists! I hate educated people!

[quote]Oh and I just remember doctors, especially specialists. Are there many who are on the 100% gov't run healthcare system? I doubt it.

You would be incorrect. Doctors, including specialists, have no problem with Medicare. Medicaid is the system that has been known to have trouble attracting health care providers, mostly because it controls expenses better and pays less. Some version of "Medicare for All" will not have a problem attracting health care providers, as we've seen in every other major industrialized nation.

[quote]I hope I'm wrong but I'm pissed that Warren insists on abolishing the health insurance industry.

She's not abolishing the industry; they will still have the opportunity to provide supplemental health insurance, just as is true in most other industrialized nations. There's actually a bit more profit for them there.

[quote]And a lot of seniors have chosen private Medicare Advantage - so their choice will be abolished?

No.

It's insane that Beto would waste so much of his limited time on speaking Spanish when his English answers were not pithy enough.

Beto shriveled when he got attacked. Even Delaney had to answer for him after De Blasio went on the attack. He evaded questions regarding gun confiscation and gave anectodal or meandering answers. He kept stammering all over the place or using up his time speaking Spanish. Absolutely embarrassing.

I missed the first 30 minutes of the debate. Did I miss the best parts?

R341 I'm pretty sure the whole thing is on Youtube by now.

It seems like all the candidates were advocating for catch and release. No Democrat will make the case for increased deportations even though it worked during the Obama era.

I don't understand some DLer's obsession with Beto. He is barely a 7.

^ DLers'

On a superficial note, I'm not necessarily a fan of hers, but I did dig the Cruella de Vil look Tulsi must have been aiming for.

I liked Tulsi’s look as well.

I’m ready for some Kamala Harris bitch-face and side-eye directed toward Uncle Joe and Grandpa Bernie tonight.

OMFG did anyone see Delaney appear less than an hour ago on MSNBC? He was SO AGGRESSIVE and obnoxious as he debated healthcare with Ali Velshi

interrupting and even put his finger in front of Ali's face once.

It's funny how many of the candidates attacked Beto. Why though? It's like kicking a sick dog.

Tonight should be more exciting. It's more of the A Team. Yesterday was a little bit of the Bad News Bears.

Warren is better than tonight. And Biden is a bad news bear if there ever was one

I wish they'd done a "varsity" and "junior varsity" approach. I wanted to see Warren v. Sanders and Biden.

[quote] I don't understand some DLer's obsession with Beto. He is barely a 7.

I don't understand nearly everyone's obsession with how they all look, you aren't going to sleep with any of them, you aren't going to hang out with any of them, you need to concentrate on who is best to run the country. No wonder we are in so much trouble.

Like him or not, I think Donny Deutsch is absolutely right. Visualize a stage with Elizabeth Warren and Trump together. There is NO WAY she would beat him in the general. Trump would chew her up and spit her out, to the delight of the deplorables. He also said that none of last night's cast are serious contenders for the nomination. Warren might make a good Secretary of the Treasury, but sadly, not President.

Yes, "it's early", as everyone keeps repeating ad nauseam, but the Democrats better get their SHIT TOGETHER and mount a serious contender who can really go toe to toe with Trump. And more importantly, who can GET OUT THE VOTE!!! And that isn't Castro, or wonky eyed Booker, or blowhard DeBlasio, or uppity bitch Kamala (which is how she'll be perceived, like it or not), or been there/done that Bernie, a parody of himself at this point.

I'm not nuts about him (I'm actually a Mayor Pete supporter) but the Democrats should be GRATEFUL that they have Biden to run, esp with his eight years with Obama hanging around his neck. He's the only serious contender.

R356 Oh shut up cunt, with your fake concern

r356 but the deplorables aren't going to be persuaded by ANY non-Trump candidate.

[quote]Being able to speak more than one language is for those evil elitists! I hate educated people!

From what I can see, this seems to be setting a bit of fear among Republicans. I'd say by two today that they will try to snatch the narrative and turn it into something that will show the under currents of racism or resort to that "elitist" narrative.

But (in my opinion) this could be an opportunity for Democrats to pounce. By speaking more than one language doesn't guarantee education and intelligence but it does demonstrate a level of it and that the individual is cognizant of others in this world who are different and that they would be able to find a common ground to work with others

Watch Bernie go after Biden tonight.

We will see how Biden handles it. I remember he stayed passive with Sarah Palin - which worked for her. Because of low expectations, she was called the winner of that debate.

[quote]There is NO WAY she would beat him in the general. Trump would chew her up and spit her out, to the delight of the deplorables.

This is so wrong on so many levels, it's impossible to know where to begin to respond to such foolishness. Every single one of the major Democratic candidates, including Warren, are easily beating Trump in the polls right now. Every single one of them stands a very good chance of beating him.

The party that has a problem right now is the Republican Party, not the Democratic Party.

Not really, R360. Only Republicans called Palin the winner. And Biden clobbered Paul Ryan, who was widely perceived as the much bigger threat to him.

Warren has the least skeletons in her closet. They (Republicans) are holding back on Biden now. If he gets the nomination, they will make him into a befuddled, stubborn, out of date, extremely odd candidate. Which he is. He has empathy though but it's not enough.

On the other hand, R363, pretty much everything they say about him will bounce right back to Trump, so it might end up being a wash.

well it would be a question of, will moderate voters again overlook (or maybe even enjoy) Trump reducing a debate with Warren into launching personal attacks (the Pocahontas tag etc) or will they actually be more impressed with her knowledge and ideas? It would be a real contrast. Would she just ignore his taunts? Would she try to treat him like the petulant child he is? Or would his personal attacks rattle her?

we know repub voters don't care and would enjoy seeing an educated woman like Warren get insulted as Trump did to Hillary. The question is have moderates learned their lesson...

I actually think Trump could make the least personal attacks against Kamala from what we know of her. Has he even nicknamed her yet?

Trump's base doesn't care about those flaws with Trump. But Biden's base does. He is very vulnerable. Especially the woman's vote. And Younger voters.

The Biden's rented a home in McClean, Virginia this week. For $20,000 a month. When did they get that kind of money?

R366, the public is already well aware of Biden's propensity for touching/hugging women (and men). They don't give a shit because they know it's just Biden being Biden. They also know about his age and about his record. He's still clobbering Trump in the polls.

Of course Republicans will slime any of the Democratic candidates; it's literally the only way they can win. But that doesn't mean the sliming will be effective.

Don't forget how stupid Trump is please. Elizabeth Warren is a good person with an open, clear eyed and pleasantly alert countenance. She's not Hillary. I don't think too many personal attacks on her or the physically stalking stance that Trump pulled on Clinton would go over well if he did it with Warren. He isn't fit to say her name. Let him call her Pocahontas all day and night.

We don't a single deplorable vote. Just a relatively fair election and for ALL opposed to Trump to vote for the Dem nominee. I hope it is Warren/Castro. FUCK the deplorables.

*We don't need...

[quote]Trump's base doesn't care about those flaws with Trump. But Biden's base does. He is very vulnerable. Especially the woman's vote. And Younger voters.

We MUST be vigilant in identifying and extinguishing the trolls!

Beto and Warren have to drop the whispery-amazed voice. They sound like shlock TV evangelists.

Inslee seems obsessed with the environment in a loony way. Delaney seems passionate but acts like he has a hearing problem. DeBlasio seems artificial and desperate. Castro seems in over his head. Booker looked like he was going to beat someone's ass.

Tulsi served in the military... Klobuchar is too soccer mom, with a little 4H thrown in.

My fave is Tim Ryan. But he seemed a little wobbly. That could be fixed with practice.

I wanna see Kamala turn up the energy in tonight's debate. This past weekend at the South Carolina event was the first I've seen her really light up the crowd.

The Biden's what R366 ? English please so we can understand you.

R366 is Svetlana armed with Yandex translator. LOL!

I also hope that Kamala will deal with Bernie once and for all.

PS. Tim Ryan is an ignorant hick who doesn't know shyte about the world outside of his Ohio.

[quote]I also hope that Kamala will deal with Bernie once and for all.

The time has come to finish him.

Does anyone have an idea about the debates ratings?

at 5 PM cable ratings come out

I'm excited for these second diabetes tonight!

debates!

I would rather someone finish off Kamala.

I think HIckenlooper will come for Sanders. That should be fun

Kamala should do well. She's so likable

Will Biden be there? If not, why not?

Biden will be there, center stage with Bernie.

I think they will all gang up on Sanders and attack, like what happened to Beto last night.

Sanders needs to be finished off once and for all.

I agree, Sanders needs to be finished. I really do like his ideas, but I can’t trust him even a little after 2016. It’s interesting that we’re talking about this. Chris Christie did the exact same thing to Marco Rubio in one of the Republican debates, basically finishing him off. I was really glad to see it, as I hate Marco Rubio, but Christie did it for Dump, enabling Dump to knock out a leading contender and get the nomination. I think in hindsight I shouldn’t have been so enthusiastic.

Tim Ryan's appearance was shockingly poor: his knowledge, debate ability, speaking language ("I'm gonna") and social cues....to cease speaking.

Agree that he appeared ignorant and obtuse.

He's almost on par with Palin and Trump.

It would be great to see America support candidates who are knowledgable, insightful and have vision as well as depth. Thus far, who would this be?

Warren? Beto "heartfelt but lacking gravitas"? Inslee CC is a HUGE deal and will turn the planet upside down (food/water shortages/civil strife) Pete or others from tonight?

Will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Much can happen before Nov. 2020.

What what about Ryan's alleged steamroom antics that were briefly mentioned in the first thread?

Jay Inslee (whom I've seen before on Rachel) looks like central casting version of POTUS and has climate change as his main issue and his apparently good gubernatorial record to distinguish himself, but he also has a lisp when he speaks and it just detracts from the image. He is just too boring.

Warren walked away with it. Right now, unless he shoots himself in the foot tonight, I think it will be Biden/Warren (VP). They will definitely win the popular vote but will the Rs win by cheating again--that's my pretty constant worry. I was so complacent in 2016.

[quote]but will the Rs win by cheating again--that's my pretty constant worry.

They're already working on it.

Ya see... here's my thoughts... Democrats and supporters need to be working NOW! Republicans should be branded and defined as cheaters NOW because that is what they do. The waitress that allegedly spat on Eric Trump... and I'll be honest... I was happy to read this... has a GoFundMe account that has raised over $5k! Why feel sorry for them? They're going to whine but all of this and more is only they're own tactics being smeared in their faces.

I live in WA and find Inslee boring.

Sorry, but the ticket will never be Biden/Warren.

The Republican strategy will be:

1. Demonize the Democratic candidate, with specific details based on the candidate. They absolutely have to tear down the candidate because they cannot win any other way.

2. Put every obstacle they can that will disproportionately affect Democratic constituencies. This will include reducing voting machines and locations, reducing the early voting times, trying to throw voters off the rolls (e.g., voters who haven't voted for awhile, voters where there is minor discrepancy in name, and so on), etc.

3. Fear. Fear of Muslims, fear of "open borders," fear of immigrant "invasion," and so on.

That's all they have. Trump remains unpopular and they haven't actually accomplished anything, so the above three tactics are all that they can do. They can't run on the tax bill, as they tried that in 2018 and it isn't any more popular now than it was then. And they will only have limited success running on the good economy because, so far, a majority of voters either think that Trump doesn't get the credit or they aren't sure. Not to mention that Trump keeps trying to fuck up the economy with his ridiculous trade wars.

Worst of all for them: Trump remains Trump. That's great for the base; not so great for everyone else. And his base isn't enough to reelect him. He will continue to rant, continue to be incoherent, continue to step on whatever good news he gets, continue to be paranoid, continue to cause problems like the current debacle at our southern border. And he will continue to not get anything done, at least anything that is both positive and popular.

And McConnell isn't helping, since all that he's doing is turning the Senate into a judge-approving assembly line, approving some of the worst candidates we've ever seen for lifetime appointments to the federal judiciary. On a related topic: one thing I hope that Democrats push for and pass is mandatory retirement ages for federal judges.

Is someone starting a new thread for Part Deux tonight?

Trump was right. It was boring. Or at least I imagine it was. I turned it off when Beto started speaking Spanish.

Beto WAS boring! I can't believe I was such a fan when he was running against Cruz. Last night I couldn't really focus on what he was saying even when he wasn't speaking Spanish because he was so nervous and so not ready for prime time. The rest of it was interesting only insofar as it's possible to eliminate virtually all of them except Warren and maybe Booker, but I don't see where Booker fits in, so only Warren will emerge from last night's group IMO.

Round two debate thread.

[quote]After tonight’s #DemocraticDebate.......that whole Trump 3rd term thing is looking better and better.

I sent Miss Lindsey the photoshop of him as Aunt Pittypat. It felt real good.

If Warren doesn't get the nomination, I want her to be Secretary of the Treasury.

R355 - we are shallow so of course we are.going to critique everyone's looks, clothes, hair, makeup and fuckability. It's what we do. Deal.

There are two Democratic Debate Thread 2's?

Eric is a doll.

[quote] Trump's base doesn't care about those flaws with Trump. But Biden's base does.

That's not true at all. Joe's base loves him and his verbal gaffs only endear him to them more. Mainly because he doesn't apologize (usually) for them, and doesn't get embarrassed. He's a "this is me, take me as I am or not" kinda guy who is not full of himself or putting on airs like the great orange orangutan currently in the White House.

I would love to see Warren as VP which would make her President of the Senate. Then if the GOP keeps the Senate maybe she could work her magic against ol' Turtle Head.

Pete needs to interrupt, otherwise he’s going to be ignored.

This is thread two from the first debate.

Tonight's debate is called "Round 2"

Kamala Harris: Hey guys, America doesn't want to see a food fight. They want be able to put food on the table".

Oh snap!

Democrats’ immigration policy makes it very hard for them to win the Midwest

Kamala raised her hand to say she would eliminate private insurance. That is an unpopular position

Kamala wins on style points. not policy.

Open boarders, cancelling private insurance health care options, and health care coverage for illegal immigrants, will not win in the general election.

R407, she'll go with a public option in the general election. The loudest primary voters are very left progressives.

[quote] Open boarders, cancelling private insurance health care options, and health care coverage for illegal immigrants, will not win in the general election

This is exactly what I was thinking. The catering to migrants stuff was really not great for the general election. They need to tone it down after the primaries.

This sounds exciting but I'm worried about Wisconsin, Michigan, etc.

r411 I think the voters - both male and female - might resent her for going after Biden so hard for her own advancement. That's just the sort of double standard we're dealing with.

[quote][R411] I think the voters - both male and female - might resent her for going after Biden so hard for her own advancement.

Biden's a grown boy. He'll be able to take it BUT he should have been ready for it.

I do believe that (if it catches hold) that Kamala will have a BIG negative blow back because of her campaign's too early of a launch of paraphernalia based on a line she said last night.

I was talking about the optics of eviscerating Obama's VP on the first night of debates, not whether or not Biden can take it.

I'm sure her past of keeping people in prison on technicalities will be combed through by Biden's campaign before the next debate.

*during the first debate, not on the first night of debates, that is

I’m sorry but I still prefer a male president

I felt like I was in Westerberg High's teacher's lounge whenever Marianne Williamson opened her mouth.

Let Marianne speak!!! Again!

How loud are the BernieBros right now? Bernie didn't really do anything last night, since everyone is talking about Biden/Harris and to a lesser extent Pete.

Despite what poster 510 on the other thread thinks we still don't know who can beat Trump. The polls showed Hillary beating Trump and how did that work out? Biden stumbled last night and was flustered that someone would question him. Instead of finishing his answer he took the out of "my time is up" when no one was telling him to stop. Biden is not owed this nomination. He is a weak candidate for president, as shown by his previous runs for the nomination.

Yeah, if Biden wants to win the nomination, he must demonstrate he wants it more and is better Prepared.

Williamson is no crazier than Trump. And that bastard has the nukes.

True

[quote]Yeah, if Biden wants to win the nomination, he must demonstrate he wants it more and is better Prepared.

If he did not get that message last night the press will make sure that he gets it today! Look... in my opinion, he held his own among the chaos. But, holding his own is not good enough. Kamala drew blood and although Biden was able to recoup a bit, it's all about the lasting impression.

So there's a particular disconnect I'm noticing right now. Pundits and Twitter are saying Kamala clearly won the night, but the commenters (on NYTimes) are split right down the middle when it comes to her. Half are honestly offended that she would imply Biden's a racist after he carried water for Obama for eight years. I feel like that's an older white voter thing and they won't forget that slight easily, if ever.

Secondly, much as I dislike any religion talk, Pete's remark about religion seems to have really resonated with ordinary Americans, whereas hardly any pundit mentioned it. I rewatched the Crooked Media livestream from last night and literally no one mentioned that as they were too busy making fun of Marianne. I think that's one of those liberal blind spots, where's there's untapped potential to gain voters currently disillusioned with Trump who's basically the Antichrist personified.

[quote]So there's a particular disconnect I'm noticing right now. Pundits and Twitter are saying Kamala clearly won the night, but the commenters (on NYTimes) are split right down the middle when it comes to her. Half are honestly offended that she would imply Biden's a racist after he carried water for Obama for eight years.

And, in my own opinion, we should all be offended. Kamala took a cheap shot. A cheap shot that had a direct hit! Look... there are these factions that walk on water who do not look at anything in context. They dismiss what the environment was like at the time of certain decisions and actions. They believe that if you are principled the only answer and action is the "all or nothing" approach. How many causes would have advanced thinking like that?

I tire of them and I think they are doing more damage than they even think--but they don't care. For example; recently the name of actress Lillian Gish was removed from a building because she appeared in the film "Birth Of A Nation." C'mon, really? She's an actress. It was a different time. And yes, the film is a horrid depiction of blacks, but she should be blamed for her decision to play a role in it? The same can be said for Hattie McDaniel (Mammy & Beulah) and Lincoln Perry (Stepin Fetchit) who both played what are considered very denigrating roles about Blacks. But, if they did not do those roles (which they did not like) then what Black person would anyone of us had seen? How would any minority just get through the door to be seen?

That's the same here with Kamala. She's being disingenuous in not recognizing the MANY segregationists who were hell bent in stopping any type of advancement for minorities. But, there were those (like VP Biden) who worked with them and were able to advance various causes,etc.

Many of these people just think that all of that was just a walk in the park. Actually, the truth is that it was those who came later that dropped the ball as far as all of the work that had been done by the earlier trail blazers.

[quote]Secondly, much as I dislike any religion talk, Pete's remark about religion seems to have really resonated with ordinary Americans, whereas hardly any pundit mentioned it.

I wrote this last night somewhere but Mayor Pete is making much more headway for gays than many of us think. He is smart. He is well-spoken. It's obvious the love he has for his husband and how well their marriage works. He is also a very devout Christian. What? This is not what is making sense to those who define themselves as religious. Mayor Pete, basically represents everything the Bible says about being a good Christian and yet we're told we're suppose to hate him because of who he loves? But, hold in high esteem a man that has divorced 3 times, cheated incessantly of his spouse, stolen, etc? It doesn't make sense. Mayor Pete, is causing many of the religious to do some self reflection.

[Quote]Yeah, if Biden wants to win the nomination, he must demonstrate he wants it more and is better Prepared.

Agree. Biden expects to be handed the nomination without having to work for it. It's good that Kamala drew blood and I honestly hope that lights a fire under his ass to give this campaign everything he has.

You left out the part when Joe said they called him son R426. There is a connotation when someone calls you son. What I read into that comment, and others have too, is they didn't call him boy. Of course they wouldn't have. Boy was a derogatory term used to call black men.

r426 That's not the best example to demonstrate your point, with which I happen to agree. We're not burning the copies of that movie or desecrating her grave, we're just refusing to celebrate her by naming buildings after her. That seems perfectly reasonable to me? Who gains with that building being named after her, and who loses? I think that if you make that calculation, you'll see that it's ultimately the correct thing to do because it benefits more people than it harms.

[quote]We're not burning the copies of that movie or desecrating her grave, we're just refusing to celebrate her by naming buildings after her. That seems perfectly reasonable to me?

Because of one role versus her other contributions/accomplishments to the industry? I mean the pendulum swings both ways and some of this political correctness goes overboard. In my opinion, you learn form history but you don't erase it.

r431 Renaming buildings is not erasure. No one is entitled to have a building named after them. It's an honour, not a human right, for fuck sake.

It is lower than low to try to pin Biden, of all people, as racist. I hope that karma will not be kind to be who use race and issues surround race as a dog whistle. And make no mistake what Kamala did was no different a dog whistle, then the ones used by republicans just in reverse. Swalwell tried the same bullshit against Pete.

[quote]Yeah, if Biden wants to win the nomination, he must demonstrate he wants it more and is better Prepared.

I've only seen one pundit write about what Biden is doing. Right now he has the black vote, but he's also sending messages to those on the fence whites who broke for Trump the last time, and let's be honest there are non deplorable white people who voted for Trump the last time. He's talking about working with others that he did not agree with. He's trying to calm the rich, who are worried that democrats are coming for their cash. He's running a campaign for the general where he has to appeal to more than party diehards.

Kamala got in a good line last night, but to what end? Trending on Twitter does not translate to votes

[quote]Despite what poster 510 on the other thread thinks we still don't know who can beat Trump.

Yes, we do. All of the major Democratic candidates [italic]can[/italic] beat Trump. That does not mean they will beat him, of course, as there's a long way to go but there is zero doubt that they all will run a competitive race against him and absolutely can win. Trump remains Trump: a highly unpopular president, with over half the electorate saying that they will not vote for him.

[quote]Kamala got in a good line last night, but to what end? Trending on Twitter does not translate to votes

Yes it does.

[quote]In my opinion, you learn form history but you don't erase it.

Naming a building after someone, raising a statue to someone does not let anyone "learn form [sic] history." Because those lack proper context, placing the individual in that place and time. Yours is the argument that was used to preserve the Confederate statues and it's a bullshit argument. Those statues weren't raised after the way; they were raised during the Jim Crow era to send a message and it was not a message about "learning from history."

Removing an actress's name from a building has nothing at all to do with history and there will be no one whose knowledge of history will be even remotely impaired by the removal of her name. For the record, I do not agree with their decision but I understand why they did it and do not believe that anyone was harmed in the process.

r435 No it does not and that's exactly what the political commentators have been warning about this election cycle: stop paying attention to what tracks on Twitter and what doesn't because it's not representative of the electorate.

I disagree, R435. You have too many on the internet who are more consumed by the entertainment than the cause. R433, is right... rather I agree. What Kamala did was lower than low. But, we will see what shakes out...

I should have added R434 that poster was saying only Biden could beat Trump.

Oh, I see, R439. Yeah, that other post was clearly false, then, as that's definitely not true.

I haven't seen any key state polling, but then again I haven't really been looking. Which candidates are showing favorable numbers in the key states?

This comment just about sums up why some voters today aren't feeling Kamala as much as the pundits seem to:

[quote]Biden never had my vote, but am I the only one to feel uncomfortable with Harris pretending to be so emotional in what was so clearly a planned attack? I agree with almost everything she said, but the theatrics bother me a lot. Nothing less authentic than rehearsed authenticity.

They all had some rehearsed lines R442. If they did their prep they knew what most of the questions would be, especially after the first debate on Wednesday.

[quote]Yours is the argument that was used to preserve the Confederate statues and it's a bullshit argument. Those statues weren't raised after the way; they were raised during the Jim Crow era to send a message and it was not a message about "learning from history."

They might have used that as an argument R436 but it holds no water. The Confederacy was an independent nation that was an enemy of that nation. Those that fought for and supported the Confederacy were not citizens of this country, period. You don't honor your enemies.

r443 It's not merely about rehearsed lines, it's about a rehearsed emotional outburst, with the trembling voice and the pregnant pauses and all that jazz. And the little girl merch she started shilling on Insta hours after the debate ended.

[quote]I agree with almost everything she said, but the theatrics bother me a lot.

It became theatrics once her campaign launched a major marketing effort while she was till in mid-sentence. The other campaigns are missing an opportunity because this IS a legitimate observation and she and her campaign should be called out on it. I guess everyone is still licking their wounds....

Well, this isn't helpful....

Biden's campaign in turmoil after Harris attack

[quote]Reeling from an attack by a much younger rival, Kamala Harris, the 76-year-old delivered an unfortunate soundbite at the Democratic debate that threatens to symbolize his biggest political liability.

[quote]"My time is up," he said, meaning to cut short one of his own answers but instead drawing attention to a question that haunts his campaign: Has his generation's time come and gone?

Sheeeeeit.

lmao at the old white posters calling Kamala "lower than low". She didn't pin Biden as racist. She clearly said she DIDN'T think he's racist. He needed to be set straight and she did just that. He most certainly had a gaffe last week with his comment. Yes he was trying to prove he could work with anyone but he completely botched it up.

Biden is out of touch. The crime bill will come up in the next debate for sure

I hope in the Detroit July 30/31 debates we see Warren and Sanders drawn in the same group. They need to go head to head so Liz can knock him out.

I also want to see Buttigieg and O'Rourke together.

and Biden vs. Booker

And so, it snow balls.... NOW, WHERE IN THE HELL DID HE COME FROM????

Rev. Jesse Jackson says Biden was on 'the wrong side of history' with busing

[quote]She didn't pin Biden as racist. She clearly said she DIDN'T think he's racist.

She did that sneaky thing where she said she didn't think he was racist, but then started pointing out examples of him saying racist things or supporting racist policies and then saying how deeply both of that affected her. The audience couldn't draw any other conclusion other than that Biden is not such an ally of the black community as he appears to be.

the conclusion is Biden is out of touch. His record isn't perfect. That's far from saying he's like Trump.

even his line "America was built by the middle class" is wrong. This country was built up by the free labor provided by African American slaves.

Kamala has really good people on her communications team! They're working the phones!

Kamala Harris’s takedown of Joe Biden was more lethal than it seems

Biden 'Dated Himself,' 'Underperformed'—and 'Was Eaten Alive ...

Harris takedown sparks speculation over Biden's black support -

Joe Biden writes his own headline: 'My time is up, I'm sorry' -

There are many of us that can recall traumatic events in our lives that brings us to tears R445. Biden uses his dead son, but I don't see you complaining about that.

r456 That's because I muted that shit, bitch. I ain't no Biden fan.

the Kamala haters are just ridiculous.

^ Guilty conscience....

R453 ain’t gonna happen.

The Repugs all want Kamala to be Trump's opponent like a crocodile watching a toddler splash around at the water's edge (Chris Christie's on The View right now praising her with a glint in his eye). She's a lightweight with too much baggage and scandal behind her. They will destroy her (with glee, because she is both a woman and bi-racial).

[quote] She clearly said she DIDN'T think he's racist.

Perfect dogwhistle to black voters. IMHO.

Did anyone else notice during that segment on what the new president's immediate priorities would be, how Gillibrand manage to undercut Harris as a female candidate?

I think the point is how well Harris does among white voters than how much black support she's getting in South Carolina. If she can't place at least third in Iowa and New Hampshire, it won't matter.

r458 I'm not hating Kamala, I'm just pointing out she might have [italic]in the long run[/italic] taken herself out along with Biden by doing that. We'll see.

Get a grip R457, you sound like a loon.

[quote]a lightweight with too much baggage and scandalsssss behind....

Are you talking about that Trump turd, dear? LOL How does it feel like throwing shit in your own face?

R461 Kamala has zero scandal. The Republicans want Biden because they know with all of his baggage of 40 years they can beat him. Republicans have zero idea of how they could handle Kamala.

[quote](Chris Christie's on The View right now praising her with a glint in his eye).

Ah... Uh-huh... When Republicans are siding with Democrats THIS early then it means it's no good. No bueno!

R467 Isn't it exhausting when every reaction of yours has to depend on what the Repugs think?

Time to calm down and have your own introspection.

Gillibrand came across like a real harpy -- yikes! It was not a good look for her.

r464 That's your response? Get a grip yourself. And some fresh air while you're at it.

[quote] Republicans have zero idea of how they could handle Kamala.

That's not hard. The light-skin negress slept her way to the top!

Goodbye Black women's vote!

[quote] Republicans have zero idea of how they could handle Kamala.

I think "This angry black woman's coming to get you!" has crossed their minds.

This is nasty, but read it #466.

[quote][R467] Isn't it exhausting when every reaction of yours has to depend on what the Repugs think? Time to calm down and have your own introspection.

I HATE Republicans. They're lower than dirt and shit.

[quote]Kamala has zero scandal.

I hear rumbling about her keeping people in prison on technicalities, and having them serve ten years instead of five. Is any of that true? I'm sure white voters are going to love those stats, though. Particularly r464.

*rumblings

I don't hate Kamala and I will vote for her if she's the nominee, but she comes across as an unapproachable calculating politician. Hell, Hillary seems warm and fluffy compared to this woman. At some point you have to think about the general. Republicans are Teflon, Democrats are not. The only people you see praising Kamala's performance last night are those in deep blue bubbles. How did that performance play where it matters? Where elections are truly decided?

Those who keep saying Trump will think of this, Repugs will think of that.

Are you operating in real life worrying so much about what strangers will think of what you do? Well then that is an utterly crappy life you lead, sir. And as an obese, old gay person, you must be thoroughly miserable.

r478 Agreed 100%. We should be talking about what the Dem voters are thinking about! The primary process is about them, after all.

[quote]How did that performance play where it matters? Where elections are truly decided?

Just repeat after me: "Anyone/anything but Trump 2020." And all the doubt in your muddled mind will dissipate.

[quote]Are you operating in real life worrying so much about what strangers will think of what you do?

Republicans are spending MILLIONS 24/7 to stop this. They spend hours upon hours trying to think of ways to stop this , It's why they have no idea about how to govern. All their time and money is pent on this.

I don't read that poxy conservapedia gutter shit to make up my mind.

Since you don't know me R474 I couldn't care less what you think about me. Instead of spouting off you should learn the facts. Joe Biden supported the 1994 crime bill that caused mass incarceration, especially of black men. We can go tit for tat all day long, but your problem is you didn't like that a black woman stood up to Biden.

It was interesting to see the little rivalries going on with the middle of the pack.

Castro vs. O'Rourke:

This field is too small for two Texans. Their allure is that they can deliver Texas to the Democrats, and one has to take the other out in order to lay claim on this. Beto was playing catch up the whole night after Castro's first blow.

Swalwell vs. Mayor Pete:

Swalwell and Pete are fighting for the bragging rights of being the youngest, poorest, and the new hope of the Democratic party. Swalwell drew blood last night and it rattled Pete.

Swalwell is nowhere near Pete, who is at the front of the pack.

Isn't Swalwell from California? I feel like you need something more in that case, other than being just another straight white guy who brags about his youth and changing diapers. Can he even speak Spanish?!

[quote]We can go tit for tat all day long,

Oh honey, there's no tit for tat here. Whatever gave you an idea that there ever was? I HATE Republicans. They're lower than dirt and shit, period.

The end.

Swalwell was good at hit-and-run soundbytes last night: fire the police chief, pass the torch, etc. But he's just a bag of hot air, compared to even Bennet or Delaney.

[quote] Beto O'Rourke

Who?

My gut feeling is that if Biden stumbles, it's going to be Warren more than Harris who benefits.

Kamala would wipe the floor with Trump. I don't think his lies and personal insults would throw her off.

We know repub voters don't care about who actually debates better anyway. Hillary destroyed Trump all 3 times yet they kept saying he beat her.

the most important info is what the independent and flip voters think of the Democratic debates.

[quote]Just repeat after me: "Anyone/anything but Trump 2020." And all the doubt in your muddled mind will dissipate.

My mind is far from muddled. I live in the real world. Trump has the power of incumbency, the economy (that he had zero to do with) is doing well, nothing sticks to him, and his base is still solid. And last night you had 7 or 8 million people watching some democrats call other democrats racist... or imply it or point out ancient "problematic" behavior. It was not a good look for the party. Kamala is trying to peel off some of Biden's black support (which is fine), but shouldn't she be asking herself why she isn't getting more support from black democrats? Maybe it's her.

Sometimes, I swear white liberals are more obsessed about racial issues that non-white voters are.

If Kamala had not brought up Biden's comments she would have been bashed. She knew she needed to do it and she did it well.

Strange R493 I can't see the color of posters here. Is there some app I need to add?

I meant that as a general political observation, not this thread.

R495, it comes with the Datalounge Gold Package. Go to settings for more info.

r493 They are, hence some of the resentment directed at Kamala today. The liberal bubble on Twitter isn't that obsessed with race, but doesn't reflect the electorate. So who to listen to?

[quote]Isn't Swalwell from California? I feel like you need something more in that case, other than being just another straight white guy who brags about his youth and changing diapers. Can he even speak Spanish?!

He represents California but was born in Iowa. Pete and Swalwell are direct competition and Swalwell knows he has no chance of climbing the polls if he doesn't take out the one guys who has a similar platform as his. It's the same thing with Castro, Julian is nowhere near the top, but he'll never get a chance if Beto's shadow lingers over him.

[quote]I agree with almost everything she said, but the theatrics bother me a lot. Nothing less authentic than rehearsed authenticity.

We need a President who understands how to use theatrics effectively... when dealing with assholes like McConnell, Putin, Kim Jong Un, etc...

R492 there are a shipload of allegation against Uncle Joe about to explode in the near future. He should be prepared to answer them all. She just pointed out his past misstep, based on fact. If he couldn't take this little heat, I feel, he should fold and go home.

There will be a hundred more on the campaign trail, just be ready, Uncle Joe.

If Castro and Harris are on the same stage next time, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're going to try to out-POC each other.

[quote]We need a President who understands how to use theatrics effectively... when dealing with assholes like McConnell, Putin, Kim Jong Un, etc...

R500 - so true. When reasoning doesn't work on these psychopaths.

when will newsom run?

Castro and Harris will be on the same ticket to the White House, I don't think they will maul each other. Harris, Warren, Sander, Booker, Gillibrand, Klobuchar and Bennet won't bite each other either.

We're not going to whittle these bitches down to a manageable bunch by singing the kumbayas. Also, the more shit-slinging there is now, the more people are going to be desensitised to it when the GOP and Trump start doing it during the main campaign.

So I'm all for starting with these nasty showdowns as soon as possible.

[quote]I hear rumbling about her keeping people in prison on technicalities, and having them serve ten years instead of five. Is any of that true?

No. That’s not true.

She was a prosecutor and a DA.

She wasn’t a judge.

[quote]The only people you see praising Kamala's performance last night are those in deep blue bubbles. How did that performance play where it matters? Where elections are truly decided?

I’m in Pennsylvania, and all I’m hearing people talk about today is Kamala Harris.

Agree with R506 - better now than later. I really hated October surprise in 2016.

r507 But she does recommend the duration of one's sentence and then argues for that, doesn't she? I've seen The Good Wife.

R510 - but she had to recommend the sentences under the CA sentencing guidelines, and she didn't write those laws either. You should watch more of Law & order though.

I can see why she was a good prosecutor. She made Joe Biden look guilty as fuck.

[quote]@guybranum Marianne Williamson is the only candidate bold enough to propose a witchcraft based health care system.

r511 But don't they need harsher stats so it looks better when they're running for the reelection? So you're basically incentivised to always recommend the upper limit.

[quote]That's not hard. The light-skin negress slept her way to the top!

What an idiotic comment. Kamala won her senate seat with popular vote of 7,542,753. Did she have to sleep with all 7.5 million people?

R514 - which cases? Do enlighten me with evidences.

Willie Brown admits it: Kamala Harris slept her way to the top

Oh, please, r427.

If you think those Bible beating talibangelicals will ever look in a mirror, you're delusional. They don't care.

And, frankly, I don't WANT those religious, self righteous assholes anywhere NEAR my party. They are all about hate, misogyny and bigotry. Fuck them.

They ARE the GOP and they can ride that sinking ship straight to hell

LOL @ R517. Really, that piece of trash American Thinker.

Okay.... Does this one work for you better?

Kamala Harris Dated Her Way to the Top, According to Conservatives

Kamala Harris Is Already Being Called a Prostitute--This is a remarkably gendered attack, and, if you’re a sexist, a fairly brilliant one.

R515 you know DL. Kamala is a black woman so some of them are going to bash her and look for reasons to hate her regardless.

They're mad that she won the debate over Buttigieg who also did well but not as well as her

R517 Please don't try to be an obese, obtuse old fogey here. It's pathetic.

Her top job now is an elected official, voted in by 7.5 million people. Her getting this job is not like that of [bold]the current First Lady.[/bold] That's the true representation of sleeping her way to the top!!!

She’s the right person, at this point in time, to be President.

Biden is one of those who feels it’s “owed” to him.

[quote]The only people you see praising Kamala's performance last night are those in deep blue bubbles.

Oh honey, no. Just no. Everyone is praising Harris's performance. She won the night. Deal with it.

[quote] Everyone is praising Harris's performance.

Show me the receipts. Twitter doesn't count. Pundits don't either.

r524 Like it was mentioned upthread, the NYT commentariat is split right down the middle when it comes to Kamala. And I've checked and they come from all sorts of places. That anyone "won" last night is pure spin. Kamala gave Biden shit and some of that excrement splashed right back in her face, which was inevitable. Deal with it.

If she doesn't do very well, as is currently the case, in Iowa and New Hampshire, and doesn't come in first in California, it doesn't matter if every single black voter in South Carolina wants her. That's it.

r525 - Please drag your 350-lb body out of your dark and dirty trailer and listen to real people in your shithole city. We can't just provide you with everything here. Fuck that "Show me the receipts." So lame and so stupid.

[quote]That anyone "won" last night is pure spin.

You can deny it all you want but Harris won the event last night. It's just not that complicated nor is it at all difficult to see that in the headlines, articles, and polls about the event.

Ohhhhhhhhhh everyone is talking about Kamala now: people, pundits, newsrooms, pollsters, fat bitches, old fags!!!! What an incredible surge for her!!!!!!!!

r529 I'm reading actual voters' takes on her and you're talking about the headlines. Okay.

LOL... Is that really the best you can do, R531? A small selection of "actual voters" vs. what is showing up on damn near every newspaper, radio show, cable news, network news, etc.? She won the debate. Deal with it.

Well, that convinced me.

Honey, no amount of data is ever going to convince you. You've made that very clear. At this point, though, all you're doing is embarrassing yourself. If you want to remain in denial, that's entirely up to you. The rest of us will move on to see how much that win moves the polls, something we won't know for another couple of days.

At the very least we know who didn't "win" or improve their chances last night and that is Biden.

R532 - I think R531 is too obtuse as she doesn't seem to understand the roles of the "local media" regarding the sentiment of people in the community And she sounds quite demented to me too. Probably too traumatized after voting for Jill Stein in 2016.

[quote[Please drag your 350-lb body out of your dark and dirty trailer and listen to real people in your shithole city. We can't just provide you with everything here. Fuck that "Show me the receipts." So lame and so stupid.

Why take it to name calling? How can anyone have a rational discussion with you, if that is the road you're going to take. But maybe that's just it, you don't want to have a rational discussion. I've heard lots of opinions about the debate last night. Some thought she won. Some didn't. Most agree that she had the line of the night, which is a big win for her. But one line doesn't mean she took the whole thing. The biggest winner last night, in my opinion, was Mayor Pete.

r536 You can't use actual arguments and instead resort to name-calling and diagnosing people on the fly? An account-switching Trumpster, no doubt. And a misogynist as well, because you just assume I'm a woman, even though I'm a guy.

What is it with these gross people on DL?

[quote]Please don't try to be an obese, obtuse old fogey here. It's pathetic.

I see name calling is basically all r536 does...

I thought it was unpleasant that the hot stud Swalwell kept reminding us that he breeds.

Biden speaking now in Chicago. He's actually doing well again.

Honestly if he had just said "I wasn't as progressive as I should have been in the past" this wouldn't have been such a big deal. His refusal to apologize is the issue.

He's defending his civil rights record and got in a good jab at Trump but this is not over.

Name-calling kinda works when reasoning doesn't on an obese, stupid old fag like you. She had to keep on asking for the stupid receipts here when she doesn't care to go out and talk to "actual voters" herself. What a lazy, fat, old troll.

The obsessive Kamala fanboy is fucking annoying, calling people fags. I'm over her.

And by her, I mean the Kamala fanboy.

Biden hasn't explained his stance during the Anita Hill hearings R541. Biden has baggage. Instead of saying someone "misrepresented" him he needs to own his past and apologize for making poor choices. Giving a speech is one thing, which I think he is pandering right now, debate is another. Joe didn't live up to expectations last night.

Compared to Sanders and Warren, he really seems like an old man. I am not certain that he has the fight in him for a nomination, if his frontrunner status starts slipping. The "I was Obama's Veep!" thing has limited appeal.

R545 right I'm not a super Biden fan but I think this speech is OK. I think Anita Hill will come up in the next debate. Kamala owned him but this speech will smooth things over somewhat

he's out of touch

Sanders and Biden seemed to have problem hearing questions last night a few times too. It didn't bode well for both of them. Would it be bad for them to wear hearing aids?

r546 I think Bernie also comes across as old, but he masks it by shouting and pointing all the damn time and in doing so gives off the illusion of vigour.

“Sanders and Biden seemed to have problem hearing questions last night a few times too. It didn't bode well for both of them. Would it be bad for them to wear hearing aids?”

[quote]and doesn't come in first in California, it doesn't matter if every single black voter in South Carolina wants her.

Well, she sure did enough to get noticed last night. She got the attention of the whole Sunbelt (lower United States) + Hawaii.

She had a stellar night.

Ahem... Has Bernie's name been mentioned at all today?

r552 No Bernie Bros to be seen anywhere on DL today. Very peculiar.

[quote]Compared to Sanders and Warren, he really seems like an old man.

I didn't get the old field. I got that he was annoyed by the sniping and wanted to be more statesman like.

[quote]I see name calling is basically all R536 does...

I'm not R536 but when you stubbornly cling to a narrative that is belied by literally all of the available data, including the data from the campaigns themselves, when you refuse to link to this magical thread of "actual voters" that you keep referring to, when you deny that the data that contradicts your narrative exists or matters, well, personally, I'm fine with a little creative name-calling, because what you're demonstrating is that you're not serious and that you're either a blind partisan, a fool, or a troll. Or, of course, all of the above.

[quote]all of the available data

You mean like Google searches? Get a grip. People are divided over her and Biden everywhere you look. Also, your argument in no way excuses name calling, so just stop embarrassing yourself by defending that sort of infantile rhetoric.

It's just the first debate. We don't need a "winner" right away, anyway. So chill.

R556, I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. No, people aren't "divided over her and Biden everywhere you look." You're simply making that up and hoping we won't notice. Conveniently, you continue to refuse to link to all of these supposed places where "people are divided."

Just stop embarrassing yourself by stubbornly clinging to a narrative that is belied by literally all of the available data. Harris won; deal with it.

Politico: Biden fundraiser ditches him and warns others may too

Biden made a very strong speech today in Chicago.

There could be a parallel between this first debate and the first debate of the 2012 general.

Obama didn't prep for the first debate against Romney. He thought he had it in the bag. But he got spanked. Eviscerated in the press. He prepped for the next two and won them handily.

This was a wake-up call for Biden. He has a huge lead in support, but he has to prepare for this flamethrowing. And I think he will.

Fivethirtyeight has the latest polling data up about the second debate. Scroll down to see who fared best and worst from the reaction to the second debate.

Biden was the only candidate in both nights whose favorability went down, although his was also the highest favorability rating to begin with and it went down by less than 1%. His unfavorables climbed a bit but only by 3% so, based on this poll, the interaction with Harris didn't appear to have damaged him much. We'll have to see how this plays out longer term.

As expected, Harris's favorability numbers climbed pretty significantly, by nearly 13%. As with most of the candidates, her unfavorables also went up but only by 1.5%. Warren and Sanders were the only ones whose unfavorables declined, although only by 0.1% in his case.

Sanders wasn't really affected, it seems. His favorables climbed by 2%. Buttigieg saw his favorables climb by 9.3% and his unfavorables climb by 3.8%. Of the major candidates, O'Rourke was the most damaged by his performance in the debates.

Best pundit line I've heard thus far from Ana Navarro-whatever her last name is now;

"Swalwell was harping on about Biden passing the torch and in the meantime Kamala was torching Biden"

R561 I was just watching a bit of a rundown of the debate on ONTD, which took a bunch of stuff from The View. I cannot stand Meghan McCain, but there were some good things said (including what you just referenced). Linking here in case anyone else is interested.

The second best line today was "No wonder Joe Biden was against bussing, Kamala just threw him under one."

Joe Biden has proven time and again that he's for bussing....

I was talking to a conservative Republican today who I work with.

He watched the debates and said “Kamala Harris won it. I disagree with her on almost everything, but you can’t deny she’s a star.”

Ana has a quick wit R561. At the end of the day she is still a repub and the next election cycle, when Trump is not on the ballot, she will be supporting the repub.

Joe Scarborough apologizes for 'disaster' of 2020 Democratic debate on MSNBC

Scarborough also criticized the Democratic candidates for adopting a slate of progressive policy platforms, including decriminalizing border crossings and providing health insurance through a public option to undocumented immigrants, suggesting that they would not be able to beat Trump with that focus.

“It was a bad sign for me, as someone who desperately wants to see Donald Trump taken out of office,” Scarborough said.

He slammed Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) for calling out Biden on his history of opposing the policy of busing black students to predominately white schools. One of the most heated moments of the debate came as the California senator attacked Biden's record on civil rights.

Scarborough said the “overwhelming majority of Americans” oppose busing as a means of integrating American schools. Fifty-nine percent of Americans opposed school busing in 2009, according to the Pew Research Center.

Yeah, his comment isn't going over well anywhere else. Considering how damn near all of the candidates came out of the debates polling better than when they began, his is clearly a minority opinion. There simply is no way to look at those two debates and call them a "disaster," even if you disagree with some of the proposals.

So what R566? Ana tweeted last night that she's ready to vote for Kamala Harris. Like Nicole Wallace, she is a republican in name only. She supports marriage equality and abortion rights, she's pro immigration and vehemently anti-racist. Where does a woman like that fit in the Republican party these days?

More than a few white and latina women who voted for Trump would be happy to vote a female other than Hillary.

* would be happy to vote FOR a female - other than Hillary.

Shouldn't that be LatinaX women ? There are severe penalties for mislabeling.

She was a Bush supporter R569, all three of them. I'm just pointing out a fact. I like her and her wit, but at the end of the day she is going to vote for a repub, except for Trump. BTW, she voted for Hillary.

There are no repubs except for Trump any more.

Right, R572, that's why supporting those few Republicans who are willing to stand by some principles is important. She hates Trump with the heat of a thousand suns.

I've either grown accustomed to Biden's newest face, or it's finally settled after surgery. I thought he looked great, even under the glare of the bright studio lights.

Fuck scumborough and his useless bimbo with a chainsaw.

This beady eyed freak let that traitor call into their show anytime he wanted and lie endlessly while he and Mika laughed and encouraged that shit.

Fuck him. He gave this traitor a free platform and legitimized this bullshit!

Today seems to be the kickoff for the boilerplate "oh why can't Democrats be Republicans?" horseshit.

Things are still early. Let the process work. Over the last two nights we had more discussion of real policy than the past two years with President Shitstain.

Scarborough is trash.

yeah remember the 2016 repub primary? that was a fucking mean-spirited mess and not just because of Trump. Cruz, Christie, Rubio all assholes

Jesus Christ, R426!

I regret I have only one W&W to give for your post.

Castro sucks.

Castro was pandering a lot.

Castro is a bit sexy to be honest. But he's not going to be anyone's VP pick. Neither will Ex Mayor Pete.

R583 = Miss Cleo

R584 You're a Libra, aren't ya, darlin?!

[quote] Castro is a bit sexy to be honest

Those Sam Donaldson eyebrows really get momma's motor runnin'

I never got the Beto buzz. He looks (and acts) stupid.

I agree Castro is sexy. Mayor Pete, to a lesser extent (too eager).

I still kind think we need the tall counter-puncher DeBlasio, but I probably don't know enough about him to assume that.

We likely is just fucked.

R587, all they have is Trump. We likely is doing just fine.

Not cool, NBC.

Despicable. Break up Comcast.

Joe Biden was in full damage-control mode Friday, defending his past positions on racial issues a day after he was left speechless when Sen. Kamala Harris slammed his opposition to school busing at the Democratic debate.

But the gaffe-prone ex-veep and longtime Delaware lawmaker, 76, made another goof as he sought to undo the damage from his troubling debate performance.

He made a cringe-worthy reference to a stereotype about young black men — while trying to discredit stereotypes.

“We’ve got to recognize that a kid wearing a hoodie may very well be the next poet laureate and not a gangbanger,” he said.

“I’d like to say something about the debate we had last night. I respect Senator Harris. We all know that 30 seconds to 60 seconds on a campaign debate exchange can’t do justice to a lifetime commitment to civil rights,” he said in Chicago at a luncheon with Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow PUSH Coalition.

Biden later sent an e-mail blast to his supporters repeating his defense — and highlighting his relationship with Obama, who has not commented on Biden’s plight — in another effort at minimizing the political damage.

During the debate, Harris also called out Biden for touting his work with racist Sens. James Eastland of Mississippi and Herman Talmadge of Georgia as examples of how he could work with people despite disagreeing with them.

On Friday, Harris doubled down, calling his controversial comments about the two segregationist senators “misplaced.”

Harris was grilled about the heated exchange with her fellow Democratic candidate during an appearance on MSNBC.

“There are no segregationists in the United States Senate today, thank God. And I think that at some point you have to draw the line,” she said.

The Post, eh?

NYT: Donald Trump Jr. Shares, Then Deletes, a Tweet Questioning Kamala Harris’s Race

Do not get the drooling over Beto, Castro or that guy at the end who looks like Troy McClure from The Simpsons.

R5, thanks for the NYT piece that exposed Gabbard's anti-gay background.

Uncle Joe is kinda dead on arrival to me.

[bold]‘An asinine concept’[/bold]

Mr. Biden was a liberal on most civil rights issues, but he did not support integrating schools through busing from the 1970s to the 1980s.

In 1975, Mr. Biden supported a sweeping anti-busing measure offered by the segregationist Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina, and he offered his own less stringent anti-busing amendment to an appropriations bill.

“I oppose busing,” he said in an interview in 1975. “It’s an asinine concept, the utility of which has never been proven to me.”

[quote]“The new integration plans being offered are really just quota-systems to assure a certain number of blacks, Chicanos, or whatever in each school,” he added. “That, to me, is the most racist concept you can come up with; what it says is, ‘in order for your child with curly black hair, brown eyes and dark skin to be able to learn anything, he needs to sit next to my blond-haired, blue-eyed son.’ That’s racist! Who the hell do we think we are, that the only way a black man or woman can learn is if they rub shoulders with my white child?”

[quote]Joe Biden was in full damage-control mode Friday, defending his past positions on racial issues a day after he was left speechless when Sen. Kamala Harris slammed his opposition to school busing at the Democratic debate.

Kamala Harris is so smart. She set Biden up to fail, and now he’s going to spend the next week making himself look even worse with one gaffe and dumb explanation after another.

I want her in the White House. She will destroy Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, and the other obstructionists in Washington.

NYT: Trump defends Biden after Democratic debate, says Harris got 'too much credit'

USA Today: Republicans start donating to Marianne Williamson to keep her in future Democratic debates

Trump can gaslight his own redneck thugs and much of the press, but he can't fool the rest of us. He's clearly threatened by Kamala Harris. As he should fucking be.