Bakery in Ohio wins $11 million settlement against Oberlin College, which accused it of racially profiling students

(cont.) The court documents include a copy of the flier, which included the words "DON'T BUY."

"This is a RACIST establishment with a LONG ACCOUNT of RACIAL PROFILING and DISCRIMINATION," the flier read, according to the lawsuit. The flier also listed 10 of the bakery's competitors and urged customers to shop there instead.

Then in November 2016, the lawsuit stated, Oberlin College said it severed its business ties with Gibson's Bakery. The shop had provided baked goods for the school's dining services through a third-party company.

While those business ties were reinstated three months later, the shop had already suffered severe consequences, the suit said.

The combined effects of the "defamation, boycotts, demonstrations, and refusal to do business with Gibson's Bakery was having a devastating effect on Gibson's Bakery and the Gibson family," the lawsuit stated.

In August 2017, nine months after the three students were arrested, all three pleaded guilty to attempted theft and aggravated trespass. In a written statement, Aladin confessed to using a fake ID to try to buy alcohol when a shop clerk tried to detain him.

"This unfortunate incident was triggered by an attempt to purchase alcohol," Aladin wrote, according to court documents. "I believe the employees of Gibson's actions were not racially motivated. They were merely trying to prevent an underage sale."

On Friday, a jury found Oberlin College liable for defamation, infliction of intentional emotional distress and intentional interference of business relationships.

In an email to CNN, a spokesman for Oberlin College declined to comment on the verdict.

But Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin vice president and general counsel, wrote a letter to members of the Oberlin community. "We are disappointed with the verdict and regret that the jury did not agree with the clear evidence our team presented," the letter said. "Neither Oberlin College nor Dean Meredith Raimondo defamed a local business or its owners, and they never endorsed statements made by others. Rather, the College and Dr. Raimondo worked to ensure that students' freedom of speech was protected and that the student demonstrations were safe and lawful, and they attempted to help the plaintiffs repair any harm caused by the student's protests."

It's not clear whether Oberlin will appeal the costly verdict.

"Our team will review the jury's verdict and determine how to move forward," Varner wrote.

"steal wine or otherwise illegally obtain wine"

i was team bakery until i read that line.

two widely differing scenarios

I used to go there as a little kid in the 60's when visiting my grandmother who lived there.

No , this one the SJW's need to own and pay for. They were out of line. The protesters would harass customers going in the store quite aggressively. " Obies" have been out of control for a while. They wont always get their way.

I think the "illegally purchase wine" was plea deal of sorts and it sound like the 3 went in there to shoplift, not being of 21. They were caught and pulled the race card. Which perfectly suited Oberlin SJW manifestos. Assholes.

The shop should take that money and get as far away from Oberlin as possible.

One was accused of attempted robbery which must involve the use of force or fear in conjunction with the theft. This wasn't just someone grabbing a bottle off the shelf and bailing.

The complaint has some interesting points:

"To further encourage and perpetuate the defamatory statements, Oberlin College suspended classes to allow students to attend protests and demonstrations outside Gibson's Bakery. Oberlin College encouraged students to demonstrate outside Gibson's Bakery in lieu of attending scheduled classes and provided credit to the students who attended and participated in the demonstration(s)."

"Defendants represented that they would consider reinstating business relations with Gibson's Bakery on a long-term basis, but only if Gibson's Bakery would agree that 'Gibson's would not push criminal charges against first-time shoplifters.'"

"In a subsequent meeting between Raimondo and David Gibson, Oberlin College also insisted that Gibson's Bakery call Raimondo when students are caught stealing rather than informing the police."

See, in R6 just shows I nailed it. Shoplifting! But Black so profiling. How preposterous of Oberlin!!!! Call the campus first? Not the police?

Oberlin should be sued for malpractice on young people. This isn't helping their students in anyway, it's hurting a generation.

Fuck that. So then word gets around that first time shoplifters won’t be prosecuted ?

That RaImondo should be f i r e d

Is Raimondo a trans?

Like R7 stated, these people are not helping matters by trying so damn hard to be "woke".

[quote] That RaImondo should be f i r e d

If that happened, I'm sure Evergreen State would hire her.

From the article posted, this wasn't an 11 million settlement, it was an 11 million verdict. The bakery I'm sure wishes it was a settlement which would eliminate the possibility of an appeal.

Hopefully when the punitive hearing comes around it will be tripled.

Good. This woke nonsense needs to stop. It hurts everyone -- white people now, and minorities in the long run if they are not held to the same standards.

Oberlin has $887.4 million endowment and also insurance for such matters.

It's a pity to run this school into the ground from SJW overkill but that's what they are doing. I wonder how boring, and politically neutral STEM undergrads can deal with it.

[quote] Good. This woke nonsense needs to stop. It hurts everyone -- white people now, and minorities in the long run if they are not held to the same standards.

The students ultimately admitted and apologized for their actions. It was the College (and its white administrators) that went on the rampage against the bakery.

That makes no sense whatsoever, r15. The protesting kids went on the rampage; the college abetted them.

R16 I think he meant the three accused student apologized, not the protesting mob

[quote] That makes no sense whatsoever, [R15]. The protesting kids went on the rampage; the college abetted them.

I'll clarify: The students who shoplifted (actually, they tried to use a fake ID) admitted to their actions.

The College did not abet the protest. It instigated and exacerbated it.

Gppd for bakery owners

What exactly happened? How did it escalate initially. Fake IDs must be identified as a matter of routine in shops around campuses, dozens of times a day.

This is a good piece on the verdict, from a legal observer who has followed the case for years:

OK i've fallen down the Legal Insurrection wormhole. They did a day by day analysis of the trial that was fascinating,with summaries of the daily testimonies. Scroll all the way down to Daiily Trial Posts

Has Lens commented on the case yet?

Whether or not they created the monster, they encouraged it, and now they have to pay.

This is only part of the verdict. On Tuesday the case moves to punitive damages--those could be as much as double the compensatory verdict, or another $22 million. That would mean a grand total of $33 million.

Have any of the Primary candidates commented?

The article about the Closing Statements is fascinating. Some of the emails they reference would have had a profound effect on me if I was a juror.

It's clear that the administrators involved in this debacle have no business leading an institution of higher education. They should be ashamed, but they are clearly incapable of that.

[quote] I wonder how boring, and politically neutral STEM undergrads can deal with it.

STEM students and STEM faculty are usually right wing assholes.

R15, behold one of Oberlin's administrators, Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin vice president, and general counsel.

Of course ^

[quote] "Defendants represented that they would consider reinstating business relations with Gibson's Bakery on a long-term basis, but only if Gibson's Bakery would agree that 'Gibson's would not push criminal charges against first-time shoplifters.'"

This is a bullshit request, but I am sure it is standard operating procedure in college towns across the country. Universities always try to handle student wrongdoing in house, without involving the police.

R32 I would not be surprised at all. The problem here is when you are dealing with alcohol you also have oversight by the Alcohol Beverage Control and they may have regs on this.

[quote]n August of 2017, when the three shoplifters plead guilty and were put on probation, Toni Myers, Oberlin College’s Multicultural Resource Center Director then, send out a text which said, “After a year, I hope we rain fire and brimstone on that store.”

Toni Myers, as quoted is R26 's link.

[quote]Carmen Twillie Ambar is the 15th president of Oberlin College and the first African American leader in its 184-year history. She was appointed to the post in May 2017 after serving for nine years as president of Cedar Crest College in Allentown, Pennsylvania

The reports are helpful but still contradictory. Some are quoted referring to "shoplifting" and others to "being underage". Brass tacks - was it attempted shoplifting, or not? My initial read above led me to suspect it was shoplifting which was changed to to a face-saving something so the store and student could let go and the student apologise. There is no escalating confrontation necessary if someone provides a fake id, and it is refused. Only an idiot holder of such a fake ID would make a commotion.

Legal insurrection says it was both: someone underage shoplifted a bottle of red wine.

[quote]A few years ago, they had students saying they wanted finals cancelled because they were protesting minority men being shot by police in nearby Cleveland; in Dec. of 2015, the school’s black student union published 14 pages of racial accusations against the school with 58 demands to fix them; and the school had students thinking that the sushi in their cafeteria was “cultural appropriation” and unfit for eating because of that. Instead of the school telling their students, “You are all crazy, and get back to studying,” they took on the “these poor snowflakes need our support” attitude.

Is sushi cultural appropriation? 🍣

The bakery was founded in 1885 and these Oberlin bitches wanted to put them out of business? I'm glad there is finally some pushback on this out of control SJW bullshit. The most frightening part of this story is the adults, not the minors escalated the issue in order to turn it into an intentionally fabricated front-page story of racial profiling.

For R36:

[quote]The protesters, mainly students from Oberlin College, alleged that racial profiling was to blame for the arrest of Jonathan Aladin, who was charged with robbery after he was accused of concealing two bottles of wine under his shirt.

According to a police report, Allyn Gibson, whose family owns Gibson’s Bakery, was attempting to detain Aladin while Gibson’s father, David Gibson, called the police. The report said Aladin ran outside the store and Allyn Gibson chased him and tried to grab him again.

When police arrived, they found Allyn Gibson on the ground with Aladin and two women, Endia Lawrence and Cecelia Whettstone, kicking and punching him. The women were charged with assault and released on $1,000 bail.

[quote]Jonathan Aladin, 20, pleaded guilty to misdemeanor charges of attempted theft, aggravated trespassing and underage purchase of alcohol.

[quote]Endia Lawrence and Cecelia Whettstone, both 19, pleaded guilty to attempted theft and aggravated trespassing.

The Gibson family stated that their bakery had already suffered a "significant drop" in revenue after Lens graduated and left town.

The fairly attractive man in the plaid shirt was beaten and punched while he was down on the ground by the defendents, who pleaded guilty

What kind of name is Allyn?

Because r44 is a lazy whore

How can they arrest Aladdin for shoplifting? It’s what he does. Gotta steal to eat, gotta eat to live. Tell ya all about it when I got the time. He’s one step ahead of the slowpokes, one jump ahead of the flock. Still I think he’s rather tasty.

Thank you for the link to the specifics of the incident.

Since the three admit guilt, I wonder how they can be so FUCKED in the brain to have been beating on the employee? And yet, students at an elite college.

Does not compute.

I have found in life that when caught out in a stupid act, my humble "mea culpa" usually smoothes the way forward.

Allyn and his sisters Mydysyn and Cyndy are the owners of Gibson Bakery and Candy.

[quote] Have any of the Primary candidates commented?

This is another modern day lynching. Jonathan, Endia, Cecilia, in addition to Jussie, are all victims.

Mea culpa doesn’t cut it, when the Internet is forever r47

When someone Googles Jonathan Aladin, Endia Lawrence or Cecelia Whettstone, what is the first thing likely to come up?

At least the were attractive in the courtroom.

NOTHING was ever going to happen to them if they had copped to it. And then within a minute or two, they were beating on the employee who pursued them. I certainly would never have heard of them and their would have been no trial and no pictures in the paper.

R14

Their insurance company has filed motions that Oberlin ignored.

Their insurance company will not pay for these damages since they were criminal in nature.

Overlin is just a socialist indoctrination camp. Total bankruptcy would be appropriate. That way they couldn’t brainwash any more kids into believing socialist justice warrior bullshit.

*THERE would have been...

R52 haha thanks. More good news.

I don’t get it...what were the administrators thinking? The president of Oberlin is a lawyer too. The students / assailants plead GUILTY. And now this story is international news.

R52 it's social justice warrior, not socialist

What is Oberlin? Never heard of this school before.

R55 at the time of the incident , the president was Marvin Krislov who has since moved on to become president of Pace University in NYC. He had to come back for the trial and gave some really lame testimony, probably not wanting to piss off his current student body at Pace by saying the wrong things!

Just another day in the beautiful United States of America. Positions of authority (politicians, lawyers, police officers, college administrators) are almost uniformly held by unintelligent, criminal megalomaniacs who fuck this country up and earn too much money doing it. We are truly fucked.

When I retire, I’m moving to Northern Europe (if they let me in and haven’t been taken over by immigrants).

Every one of these administrators should be fired for turning the school's degree into toilet paper.

Let me guess--the jury was white

Not just an Oberlin thing, more a college in the 2000s thing.

Straight line from this to UVa/Rolling Stone to Duke Lacrosse

Colleges wanting to appear "woke", not rehashing the mistakes of the 60s, rushing to judgement, all that.

The fact that non-tenured professors make less than greeters at Walmart doesn't help either. Not sure why people take those gigs when there is zero future for them.

[quote] The fact that non-tenured professors make less than greeters at Walmart doesn't help either. Not sure why people take those gigs when there is zero future for them.

???

Professors do not seem to have been hugely involved in the lawsuit nor are they named in it I am not sure how this could possibly be relevant.

It sounds like you're just anti-higher education in general.

They were and are, R63.

But nice try

Ahh-- R63 is the OP

Yet Another Case Of DL "I Started This Thread And I Am Now The Thread Monitor"

[quote]Yet Another Case Of DL "I Started This Thread And I Am Now The Thread Monitor"

Not at all. I disagreed with a point r62 made, which is not "monitoring" at all.

In fact, [italic]you're[/italic] actually the one monitoring the thread, checking to see who posters are.

This sounds like an ugly situation. Now that the students have, if I understand correctly, confessed that their accusation was wrong, I hope someone will mediate and set up a meeting between the bakery and both the students and the college so that the students and the college administrators can apologise to the bakery. Racial profiling is a very real thing, as is homophobia, and it's all to easy for people to jump to conclusions. Perhaps these students thought that if they were white, they store would have just sold them the booze. But they have no way of being sure about that, and it doesn't excuse the whole uproar they allowed to happen

I think the argument that the school is liable for failure to defend the bakery is wrong. Acts of direct defamation are one thing. Failure to counter someone else’s defamation is not a valid cause of action.

R68 school administrators didn't just let it happen, they actively encouraged it as evidenced by emails and texts and giving the students credit to protest, etc. You should read more on the case.

They also still wanted revenge and to destroy the bakery after the arrested students admitted what they had done. They should be liable as a school and I hope they fire those responsible, as well as rethink how they as an institution respond to events like this.

How is Oberlin responsible if its student protest a racist bakery?

R70 read the fucking thread

Jeezaz if you want to post, read the damn articles. The woke administration promoted the protests - to the point of excusing absences and giving "credit" for protestors. They did many many things to encourage the perception the Bakery was profiling. Complete IDIOTS.

Misguided woke older folks come in all colours!

The plaintiff’s closing argument opened with a letter they felt the school should have sent. Thus the “duty to defend” the bakery is the key to their case. That suggests to me that whatever minor role the school itself played in the protest did not rise to the level of defamation. I doubt this verdict stands on appeal.

Financial consequences is the only way these crazy people will stop being allowed to just do whatever they want.

The Police Report which sets out exactly what happened.

I’m also skeptical that this bakery in Oberlin actually suffered $11 million in damages.

There as a funny sad episode of Atlanta. Tracy shoplifts at the shoe store in the mall, calmly assured the store has a "no chase" policy.

Well, given that the protests almost made the bakery go under, and that it was a family owned business that had survived for over a hundred years and had been doing fine until the protests, I think that's pretty much a fair estimate. There is also the harassment to which the students subjected the owners: damaging their house, puncturing their tires, making them fear for their safety.

[quote]There is also the harassment to which the students subjected the owners: damaging their house, puncturing their tires, making them fear for their safety.

Link r78?

I hope the college goes under.

Oberlin College, one of the greatest liberal arts colleges in the world!!! Go go go go Oberlin.

This must be an easy year to get into now. //writing an admission letter.

R81 has a PhD from the University Of Phoenix

R79 Here you go:

"...several witnesses – those who worked at Gibson’s around the time of the protest and in the months directly afterwards – have testified they had had their tires slashed while they worked after the protest, people making nasty comments to them after they left work, and a general feeling of unease that some students seemed to feel toward them and the bakery."

I'm as liberal as they get, but some times I think liberal college professors are going to be the downfall of this country. They act before they think, or before they find out the facts.

R76 I thought the same thing initially, but it appears the damages with respect to the bakery operations do not comprise the bulk of the judgment - $2.2 million.

Allyn W. Gibson was awarded $3 million, David Gibson $5.8 million, Gibson Bros. $2,274,500.

Plaintiffs' expert opined that the business would lose $2,819,000 over 30 years in the store and from school food losses.

The expert also testified to damages attributable to higher rental property vacancies; and an apartment building lost business opportunity, although what plaintiff asserted these damages I couldn't figure out from the article I read.

Yet you don't hear of University of Phoenix people doing dumb shit like this, r83.

Touché r87

[quote] Thank you for the link to the specifics of the incident. Since the three admit guilt, I wonder how they can be so FUCKED in the brain to have been beating on the employee? And yet, students at an elite college. Does not compute. I have found in life that when caught out in a stupid act, my humble "mea culpa" usually smoothes the way forward.

They should get the electric chair.

[quote]When I retire, I’m moving to Northern Europe (if they let me in and haven’t been taken over by immigrants).

Wouldn't that make you an immigrant, R59? Or do you only use the word for those "brown people"?

The president did not want to stand up to his black deans and administrators, who did not want to retract and tell the student body to stop the bullshit because in fact 3 black students had done a criminal and stupid thing, even admitting it. The president was in such a bind, he seems to have walked away from his job, rather than telling the black administrators and SJWs to go fuck themselves.

I agree w r91.

He said fuck this and split.

[quote] Good. This woke nonsense needs to stop. It hurts everyone -- white people now, and minorities in the long run if they are not held to the same standards.

[quote] I don’t get it...what were the administrators thinking?

I agree. It's really weird that there was not one administrator who put the brakes on this.

[quote] I'm as liberal as they get, but some times I think liberal college professors are going to be the downfall of this country.

The protest was led by students and mediated by administrators. I don't see how "liberal college professors" bear any blame for this situation.

Tuition for Oberlin is $52k a year. This is why I don't believe in student loan forgiveness. You can't tell me that there's not a state school out there for less and with less drama.

[quote] I don't see how "liberal college professors" bear any blame for this situation.

That bitch Dean Meredith Raimondo was the main instigator. She should be in jail.

And the students who protested have probably rotated out of there as it was back in 2016.

The links are at r21 and r22, r79

Also, the awards are for libel and emotional distress, which the jury decided the college had indeed committed against Gibson's. $11 million is not too much.

The sad part is that the SJW administrators likely ruined the three students' lives with their attempts to "help".

The shoplifting incident would have been quietly handled in 2016. No future employers will ever hire them now. Why would they put themselves at risk of future monetary damages?

Who are even those kids?every article I’ve read doesn’t mention any by name.

r10-2, the key student in the matter who shoplifted the wine is named Jonathan Aladin.

Seems like you do not know how to read, R102. Even in the OP they are mentioned.

The other two are Endia Lawrence and Cecelia Whettstone.

Now, these three students (formers students?) need to sue Oberlin and claim they were used as pawns in order to forward the administration's SJW agenda.

[quote] Wouldn't that make you an immigrant, [R59]? Or do you only use the word for those "brown people"?

Correct. Only for those “brown people”.

The New Yorker examines how fucked up things have become at Oberlin College because of SJWs and political correctness

[quote]$11 million is not too much.

That’s only the compensatory damages. Punitive damages are upcoming.

Why is Dr. Kevorkian in the pic at R84?

Many old ladies going to run that gauntlet to buy a rye-marble ?

It will be the death of liberal arts colleges.

Oberlin is probably near Need Blind financial aid. Nobody is going broke going to such a school - only the rich get a full tuition bill.

How long will it take for Americans to understand that its the middling/cheap (NYU) or poor private schools and expensive state schools that are creating huge student debt.

State Schools in NY are $6 to 8k a year, r113. Anyone choosing to go to expensive schools should expect to foot the bill.

Apparently it is "need sensitive" but I believe it was once Need Blind. Guess its really falling down the latter. Doesn't have a billion endowment. Most prestige schools its size have at least 2 billion. Wiliams has 2.7 billion and less undergrads.

You don't understand how the elite private game is played, hun. If it's "Need Blind" the poor and lower middle class are NOT paying. The endowment income is.

[quote] Wiliams has 2.7 billion and less undergrads.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

"Tastes great, fewer filling"

uhhh, I don't know about that

well the grammar nazi is correct to call out my ass, because undergrads is a countable noun. whoops. filling is an adjective, so less.

WOW R108 what an exhaustive and informative back story to the Bakery issue. I made it through but it wore me down! I now can understand Mr. Krislov's exit to Pace University

Thanks!

I think this is the lesson we can all learn from this lawsuit. When there's a contentious issue, write your email as if it is going to be read to a jury. Ask yourself if you really need to send a particular email. If there's a thorny issue in an email, pick up the phone to respond.

[quote] When there's a contentious issue, write your email as if it is going to be read to a jury. Ask yourself if you really need to send a

You'd think their communications staff, at least, would have understood that, but they had their own (Expletive) problems.

I can see individuals creating the fliers but it's never made sense to me that the college was involved in an official capacity.

The cycle continues. The school cunts embarrass and cut down business at the bakery, the bakery cunts sue the school for a ridiculous $11 million plus whatever. They'd better hope the lawyers don't take most of what they end up with after appeals. They won't be getting any business from the college in the future. They won't be open for much longer.

r124 I thought that $11 million was an award, not a demand.

Hopefully, they will be getting a lot more of that when the next series of verdicts is given. They can either all retire outright, or move to another area.

More than $11 million? You're fucking high.

The $11 million is compensatory damages. The punitive damages still have to be awarded.

This does not make Oberlin look good. I know a lot of kids applying to colleges this year--by and large, they weren't applying to the smaller liberal arts colleges, though I did know one who got into Oberlin. Paid a visit and couldn't stand it--way too much SJW dramatizing. He's going to William and Mary instead.

The big selling point of the smaller LACs was that you could a great, more personalized education. Once the whole safe-space, don't-upset-anyone stuff started happening, a lot of the LACs became less desirable to students who want a good education--and there are some--and parents who want their kids to have good educations instead of SJW indoctrinations. Not with those price tags.

Instead, the good students I know of are going to the big private research universities (near big cities if possible) and the publics (out-of-state as well as in). The ones going to the Ivies are pretty much all legacies with a couple of athletic recruits thrown in for good measure. The weaker students whose parents have money are going to LACs. I don't remember there being that kind of division 30 years ago, or even 15.

[quote]it sound like the 3 went in there to shoplift, not being of 21

Thank you, obvious English speaker, for weighing in on the case, but Aladin had a fake ID so he pretty clearly was hoping to buy wine.

Since when do shops have their low-paid clerks detain someone for having a fake ID? Who willingly puts themselves in danger for an $8/hour job?

R127, I get that this is just conversational and anonymous, but the likelihood of you knowing multiple 18 year olds going to college in the fall, plus know enough about the admissions process and cultural environments of multiple universities and colleges all across the country over the last 30 years to make any kind of reasonable comparison, is about zero.

I understand that DL is full of people who are either gullible, don't care or who have an agenda, but I'm always a little shocked at the kinds of things the numerous "PC culture has gone mad" posters here try to pull off.

Even if you did know a large number of teens over the last 30 years, and even if every single one of those teens said "Gosh, Mr. R127, I visited 37 schools this semester and they were all full of SJWs! I'm heading for a sane school where there are no activists to upset my big research studies!" it wouldn't mean anything. It would be anecdotal and say far more about you and the company you keep than about actual trends.

[quote]"In a subsequent meeting between Raimondo and David Gibson, Oberlin College also insisted that Gibson's Bakery call Raimondo when students are caught stealing rather than informing the police."

University of Oklahoma did that back in the 1980s and got into big trouble when it was uncovered. They wanted the police and businesses to tell them if one of their football players broke the law so they could deal with it "in house."

They're not getting $11 million and they're not getting whatever punitives are tacked on.

This will get whittled down, and rightly so, leaving them with enough to cover the lawyers and a few dollars more if they're lucky, damn fools. Now they've poisoned the well they drink from. Oberlin is the biggest business in that town and the bakery/store has made sure they'll be boycotted. '

You are correct, R129, but we all know R129 - she is the world's foremost authority on everything!

R128 My english may have faults but your perfect English did not lead you to reading the fucking articles, which report that Aladin had 1 bottle to pay and 2 hidden under his jacket. The son called him out, he slapped the phone out of the son's hands, the 2 wine bottles crashed to the floor in the kerfuffle. DUMBASS - reading skills?

Dealing with criminality 'in house' worked wonders for the Catholic Church.

Good for bakery, Notice how usual suspects on this thread are defending the college

How long between the event, and the 3 students finally copping to their guilt, and giving up the doubling down on innocent and profiled? It may have been quite some time - months if not over a year or more.

You are correct, [R129], but we all know [R127] - she is the world's foremost authority on everything! —Anonymous reply 132

The supporters of the thief student here don't surprise me at all. After all we have people here who admit to stealing from stores and think it's being a busybody to report a thief to store management. I'm guessing these who are "pro thieving" are very young, not to mention very dumb.

Hopefully the next legal round will be to begin defamation actions against the SJW orgsnisers. No blue hair in debtors prison for you, bitches!

[quote]He's going to William and Mary instead.

Two of them, huh?

R131 hardly. The college destroyed their business. They deserve to get compensated for that. And the college needs a punitive fee as well.

At some point today the punitive damages portion of the verdict will be announced. The bakery could get up to $22 million in addition to the first set of $11 million

Good, I hope it's a ridiculous amount and in addition the school employees who were involved, sentenced to flogging.

You guys are such suck up cunts.

R129, I know about it because I have a kid going to college from a competitive high school, so I'm hooked into the parent network in my district and I've also done plenty of research for the past few years. I know about 10-15 years ago because I was helping some younger relatives with applications. I know a lot about college apps for the last couple of years because I have access to the Naviance database. Naviance means I know the number of applications, the admit rates, the acceptance rates and the GPA and test scores of the applicants from my kid's school and how that compares to a school's general admit rates and stats.

In addition, I know various people who teach at the college level, so I also hear things that way.

That said, I'm also a liberal and a LAC grad myself, so I'm not happy about Oberlin and other LACs not holding the line better.

If you don't believe me, that's fine--if you actually care about this stuff, it's easy to look up admit rates. You can also burn a few hours on College Confidential and you'll learn more than you ever want to know. Meanwhile, here's a link to Oberlin's historical admit rates--it dropped down to 29 percent in 2016, but it's since climbed up to 39 percent. They've held the line on SAT scores, but the number of applications has dropped significantly.

Meanwhile, NYU's admit rates have been dropping, while its number of applicants keeps rising.

39% sheesh they are practically recruiting on the street!

Meanwhile at NYU, the admissions rate dropped from 35 percent in 2013 to 19 percent in 2019. Students are more liberal than they were, but that's translated in wanting to be near or in big cities.

Rural colleges are taking a hard hit, kids don't want to be in Trump country.

[R147] NYC is it's country now? I hope kids don't have same education as you in that country.

R148, Where did I say NYC was a country? However, if you want to play grammar games, learn the difference between "it's" and "its".

[quote] They included a request for an $8.20-an-hour activism wage

So are students getting paid to protest by the school?

[quote]Since when do shops have their low-paid clerks detain someone for having a fake ID? Who willingly puts themselves in danger for an $8/hour job?

Store owners and their employees can be fined if they sell liquor to people under 21. They are probably encouraged to try and detain someone for a fake ID in order to get law enforcement involved.

So this is kind of related to the bakery story, but does anyone remember the Evergreen State College protests from 2016 (very short recap: there was a 'push' for white people to "absent" themselves for a day to accomplish some vacuous SJW "gotcha" point or other, a professor rejected the SJW dogma, and the mob POUNCED!).

Well, there's a fellow gay and Evergreen alum who has been making videos on youtube about the school, this incident, continuing incidents of SJW craziness, and the school president's completely unexplainable NEED to view everything on earth through the lens of racial justice, and the videos are imho EXCELLENT. I actually think he deserves a thread of his own, but this Bakery story really intersects with the Evergreen story in that they both include small liberal arts schools with the SJW students making insane actions and somehow getting presumably otherwise competent adults to go along with it. Here's a recent vid about the continuing drop in enrollment following the "day of silence" protests.

r145 is the parent of every teacher's nightmares.

Can you people NOT read? The son called the cops because the Oberlin student was SHOPLIFTING, not about the fake ID!!!!!!!!!!!! The student was confronted for SHOPLIFTING and it escalated. Now shoplifting doesn't have to be such so terriblement scandaleuse, but the Oberlin students did NOT react well and it quickly degenerated into a beating outside the bakery.

It could be argued the shop worker (son of owner) over-reacted in pursuing but the Oberlin student immediately escalated instead of accepting he'd been caught out.

[quote]Since when do shops have their low-paid clerks detain someone for having a fake ID? Who willingly puts themselves in danger for an $8/hour job?

The “clerk” is the son of the owner, a third generation member of the family that’s owned the bakery for over a century. He also got the shit kicked out of him by the three students after they accosted him in the parking lot. Try reading you fucking putz.

r42 marry me!!!

That’s a pretty rowdy turnout for a shoplifter at r111

Because they are fucktards, R158.

Why is no one questioning why a bakery is selling wine in the first place? I don’t go to the liquor store to pickup a babka!

r160 one horse town in flyoverstan.

bratty college kids who want to get drunk and high

It's basically a convenience store with a focus on the bakery.

[quote]Why is no one questioning why a bakery is selling wine in the first place?

Exactly! The bakery need to be fined just for that. Not get $11 billion.

R152, Yeah, Evergreen has a 97 percent admissions rate--even with that, enrollment went into a serious tailspin and dropped 20 percent after no-white-people day. At this rate, they're heading the way of Hampshire, though Evergreen has the advantage of being publicly funded.

[quote] Well, there's a fellow gay and Evergreen alum who has been

I didn't realize he was a homosexualist.

r165 Yeah, and if you look at the non-evergreen videos on his channel, you can see that if he's not an actually DLer, he's a DLer in spirit. And if he's reading this, Hi Ben! I love your videos and your eyes are gorgeous!

[quote]The fact that non-tenured professors make less than greeters at Walmart doesn't help either. Not sure why people take those gigs when there is zero future for them.

Fuck off they make close to 60 grand a year and probably work half to a third the hours.

God, whoever posted that is worse than a nurse that wants the same pay as a doctor.

R163 I'm guessing the bakery owners got a liquor license so they could try making a little more money and figured their regular customers who aren't college students would occasionally buy alcohol products.

Well, big mistake on their little plan to make a little more money. Sure backfired on them.

I hope they learned their lesson: cakes and wine DO NOT MIX.

Social Justice Warriors received justice. Ain't it sweet?

[quote] Now they've poisoned the well they drink from. Oberlin is the biggest business in that town and the bakery/store has made sure they'll be boycotted.

They already were being boycotted thanks to the lying students and their nutso SJW supporters. [bold]THEY[/bold] were the ones who "poisoned the well."

[quote] I love your videos and your eyes are gorgeous!

He does have nice eyes...and a nice voice. He ought to get into voice work.

[quote] It could be argued the shop worker (son of owner) over-reacted in pursuing

Oh for fuck's sake: by whom???

The kid stole a bottle of wine from the store. The employee had every right to chase after him.

Just ask Little Red Riding Hood, R171.

OMG, that Evergreen video is hilarious--enrollment's fallen off a cliff, but the cliff is two feet shorter than projected, but only if I lie about what I said about last year's projections.

Someone needs to be fired.

Is this the death knell for small liberal arts colleges?

I can't see any but the very elite (the Williams, the Amhersts, etc) surviving this nonsense on top of declining enrollment.

R178 small liberal arts colleges are not all the same, dear.

Who is the freak in this thread that keeps trying to make the shop into the bad guy? Did you go to Oberlin? Concern trolling about a liquor license or what the shop should and shouldn't sell. Troll better, queen.

Where did I imply they were, r179?

[quote]Well, big mistake on their little plan to make a little more money. Sure backfired on them.

Yeah, right. To the tune of $11M on the plus side so far. I should be so lucky to have that kind of “backfire.”

R180 sure, Jan

They are in the punitive damages hearing phase.

The trial court ruled that the letter sent by Oberlin's General Counsel expressing disappointment with the verdict and regret that the jury "did not agree with the clear evidence our team presented" could not be used as an exhibit by the Plaintiffs nor could they call the General Counsel as an adverse witness.

The trial court also denied Oberlin's Motion for a Mistrial.

Legal Insurrection reports that the jury could also authorize the trial judge to award attorneys' fees to the Plaintiffs - must be some special Ohio statute authorizing this.

I think the Oberlin's administrators are on this thread. They refuse to look into what actually happened and refuse to read the articles we are all reading. Or they need to take remedial reading comprehension because they are not even at the high school level. Of course the former president turned chicken and ran because as a white born male he didn't have a chance in hell. Still do you want any individual like this running any college?

r182 you sound exhausting

Speaking of overly-Woke LACs, Amherst put out this "Common Language Guide"

This was under the definition of "equality," which is apparently a Bad Thing in WokeLandia

[quote] Treating everyone exactly the same. An equality emphasis often ignores historical and structural factors that benefit some social groups/communities and harm other social groups/communities.

I don't get what this whole dispute was really about - can someone please enlighten me? Employees of the bakery saw that 3 individuals were stealing wine and tried to stop them. The trio was then pushing and kicking the employee who was already on the ground. Police arrived and arrested them for shoplifting and assault. The students pleaded guilty. The school and students somehow decided that this was racist and tried to ruin the bakery. What did the employees of the bakery do? Did they use racial slurs or insult the students in any way? Or is it no longer acceptable to stop people from stealing your stuff just because they are black? What was all this outrage about? They stopped students from stealing and even got physically attacked but somehow they are the bad guys? What am I missing here?

R187 pretty much summed it up other than a VP of the college egged on the student to protest the bakery quit aggressively and also the university cut off catering contract due to this action.. But yes a crime was taking place and the owner tried to stop and also detain the offender and then took it outside on the street.

I suppose the outrage by the SJW was that "HOW VERY DARE YOU" profile a black customer and suggest he is hiding 2 bottles of wine under his jacket. No matter that he was, you PROFILED HIM!!!!

We also don't know when the 3 students decided to admit culpability. I think it was months later in some bargaining between legal teams. So there were MONTHS in which campus SJW and the administration assumed their innocence and thus the "FACT" that their precious POC students had been racially profiled by townies!!

I assume this post will get push back but whatever.

I do a lot of work in university libraries (I'm an academic who prefers occasional changes of scenery) and I spend a lot of time in those libraries telling undergrads to be quiet. They have no sense of what a "quiet study area" means.

If it is a group of black students, I let it go. I don't engage. I don't tell them to keep it down. I do not want to be accused of "policing black students" given the current political climate on campuses.

I also think the logic in SJWS and POC is that if a black person is stopped and accused of a crime, IT IS RACISM, even when the crime is revealed and eventually admitted. STILL, the "profiling" was racist. Because WHITE PRIVILEGE is not profiled (they get away with crimes). I'm pretty certain that is the logic.

r187 You're not missing anything, that sounds like a comprehensive recap. To further demonstrate that "trying to protect your store's inventory and getting beaten out back by shoplifters" is an inherently racist act (and probably colonialist and bigoted too), Oberlin actually emailed the store with the demand that if, in the future, Oberlin students again stole from the bakery, that the bakery should NOT call the police, but instead call Oberlin! The Law Blog linked above has these truly bizarre details.

The current SJW meme of "white = wrong, color = always right (except for asian, which varies depending on how SJW feel at the moment, and especially except for south asian, which REALLY varies depending on how the SJW police feel at the moment)" makes me sad.

R192 I am not sure it is even color= always rights as much as color= ok to do wrong

Jussie's Empire colleagues defended him. Eventually, it was revealed that Jussie was ready to throw 2 acquaintances, BLACKS, under the bus, to keep his lie going. The Empire colleagues publicly would NOT drop their support of Jussie, nor point out the hypocrisy of backstabbing fellow blacks, in a preposterous made up crime to smear whites and create public good will for assaults on "blacks" and "black gays".

I linked the scene from Atlanta above - which is an example of "black has carte blanche to do wrong - in certain 'victimless' situations - such as shoplifting.

R187, you’re missing one part.

Before the students admitted guilt, they cried racism, and then it took off from there and by the time they did admit guilt and that it wasn’t racist what happened, it was too far gone.

r195 yes that seems to be the situation.

If I see with my own two eyes that someone is stealing my stuff and I try to stop them, how can this be racist? It does not matter if the person was black, green, yellow or white. The person was committing a crime and stealing. I have every right to stop them. And the school does not want police involved even when someone is caught red-handed? WTF? How will these students learn what is right and wrong if there are no consequences?

Did Harris and Booker make a point of PUBLICLY regretting their support for Jussie, when all the truth was eventually revealed?

No.

Has Senator Gillibrand apologised for pushing grifter Mattress Girl onto the credibility-granting Congressional arena?

No.

R195 From what I've read, they were caught red-handed with two bottles of wine outside the shop or with the bootles under their jackets. There probably even was video footage of the shoplifting. Why is it even up for discussion if they were guilty or not? Caught outside a store with wine you did not pay and under a jacket.....gulity. They tried to get out of this by playing the race card and I hope it backfires for them (wont find any good jobs) and all the people involved (they hopefully all get fired).

R199, yes they were caught red handed and there prob was a video, but by the time that was proven, the wildfire had started. The immediate reaction was that the store owners attacked three innocent kids who were not doing anything wrong simply because they were black.

I think the Oberlin drama professor got it right--that the incident took place right after the 2016 election, so there was a lot of misplaced outrage.

There's kind of an unpleasant truth at work as well--the LACs are trying to increase diversity--but there's a shortage of good black (and, to a lesser extent, Latino) students who are willing to go to these small colleges in predominantly white areas. Schools like Oberlin end up with minority students who don't have the scores or grades of their Asian and white classmates. They get hit with college-level work and end up struggling. Throw in the fact that financial aid doesn't cover everything and you end up with resentful, isolated kids who use politics to act out--often in idiotic ways.

The colleges, meanwhile, are struggling to hold on to these underqualified students to prove that they're diverse and woke--and, well, the whole thing ends up as a royal mess.

Ironically, all the colleges tend to be tougher on Asian admits, but then use those same kids to bolster their diversity stats.

At this stage, I think the LACs should quit trying to win the diversity sweepstakes, just treat kids with respect and give them a quality product and think about not leaving grads with $200K of debt. I'd love to see an overhaul of the whole approach to higher education--easier, cheaper access to the public universities, less obsessing about whom the Ivies admit--they'll always be bastions of the rich and connected--and more about what the publics are doing. And, of course, a lot of kids really should just pick up a trade at a community college or equivalent.

And, yeah, a lot of the LACs and small religious colleges are facing very tough times ahead--not Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore or the other LACs with strong national reputations, but there are tons of colleges that will go under. A few of the well-known ones with small endowments will go as well--Hampshire College basically spent its small endowment and itself into the ground. Sweet Briar was saved by its alumna. Who's running the school makes a huge difference--Bennington's was sinking, but seems to have started a turnaround under its new young president. Evergreen, on the other hand, is clearly floundering under its numbskull of one.

R021 I think the former president of Oberlin was decent and was popular with alumni and a good fundraiser and simply got hit broadside by this SJW action and its far reaching effects. I mean, who signs up for that? You assume a certain level of decorum to be present stepping into a position like that a at a nationally known institution.

Shoplifting and/or using a fake id sound like typical college kid crimes. The assault on the guy in the parking lot should have been a sign to the adults at Oberlin that this was not a typical college kid crime. As a former academic it boggles my mind that not one dean or the university's general counsel cautioned against getting involved in this. The university certainly had the means to deescalate the situation. This isn't a simple case of "political correctness gone mad." I would be very interested in reading about what actually happened on the administration side.

r203 If you watch some of the evergreen videos posted above, specifically the ones detailing internal faculty/dean emails surrounding these incidents, you start to see the pattern of 'speak up and disagree => thanks for your service now please leave.' Everything's fine so long as you're a good little groupthinker and kool-aid drinker, but the instant you disagree with any part of the SJW dogma, it's game over for you--in formal actions, but probably more directly through informal shunning and negative social pressure.

But luckily since having institutionalized groupthink and silenced dissent has NEVER led to negative outcomes throughout all of history, we're safe!

Oh please. It’s Ohio. Of COURSE they’re racist.

[quote] As a former academic it boggles my mind that not one dean or the university's general counsel cautioned against getting involved in this. The university certainly had the means to deescalate the situation.

Part of the problem with all this is the Oberlin administration is almost legendary for its ham-handed and overreaching political correctness.

The Oberlin Dean of Students who was named in the lawsuit, Meredith Raimondo, first came to national attention in 2014 (see the link to the story from back then), when she pushed an extensive policy that would have been the first to [bold]require[/bold] trigger warnings on course materials from professors. She backed down only when the faculty rose up in protest against them (this was right at the beginning of the national debate over trigger warnings).

To date, there is not a single college or university in the country that requires trigger warnings (which almost certainly would go against AAUP guidelines). The fact that she was the first in the nation to push actually requiring them should show you how extreme she is. My hope is that this last adventure will mean she gets fired--or, as it will almost certainly be explained, "come to a mutual agreement with the college that it's time for her to leave Oberlin." They need new administrators to stand up to the craziness there.

This should clear up some of the questions asked above about the timeline of events:

[quote] The lawsuit was filed in November 2017, a year after the incidents that led to the lawsuit. In November 2016, three black Oberlin students were suspected of stealing from Gibson’s Bakery by Allyn Gibson, who chased down the students onto college property (across the street from the bakery).

[quote] The three students were arrested and later pleaded guilty to charges of attempted theft and aggravated trespassing, and each signed an statement saying the incident wasn't based on race.

[quote] However, by the day after the incident -- and before the students admitted that they had been trying to rob the bakery -- students had organized a protest in which more than 100 people demonstrated outside the bakery. Students carried signs accusing the bakery owners of white supremacy or simply saying "Fuck Gibson's." Protesters chanted "Gibson's is racist" and handed out pamphlets urging customers not to buy from the bakery and accused the bakery of a history of racism.

[quote] Court documents show the university placed a hold on business done with the bakery for a period. The lawsuit alleges Oberlin administrators encouraged students to protest the store and helped organize the demonstration. Raimondo was accused in the suit of helping orchestrate student fervor against Gibson’s, such as by informing law enforcement in advance of the protest on behalf of the demonstrators. The university says any assistance given to demonstrators was simply Oberlin ensuring student safety during a legal protest.

r205 = Oberlin alum.

r201 and r207 have good insight

r205 whether they're racist or not really isn't the issue to me. I deal with homophobes every day of my life, and I have no problems. The issue is what actually happened, how would an identical situation have played out with white students, and what was the role of the college inciting the protests.

In this case, the college should've stepped in to investigate right away, and sent an e-mail out that these students were guilty, the clerk did nothing wrong and he didn't say anything racist during the whole incident. If the students pushback claiming a history of discrimination, tell them to back it up and you'll look into it. I wouldn't be foolish enough to tell them not to protest, but I'd ask them to show restraint until your investigation is finished.

People are too fixated on checking everyone's ideological purity in public places. If I'm treated respectfully, professionally and according to their policies I'm not going to be upset if a clerk is friendlier to the straight couple who walked in behind me.

I love that in the thumbnail at r207, they misspelled Gibson’s. Astonishing stupidity.

Ha I didn't notice that r211

R206 they were probably afraid to fire her, and for good reason. Still, hopefully she will be after this lawsuit is finalized. Maybe the university will sue HER!

Did they ever explain the "history of racism" the students immediately accused Gibson's of?

Facts and reality are oppressive Western constructs r214!

The burden of proof is hegemonic interpellation! Authoritative power is white and cisgender male and proof is its delaying tactic to keep subalterns in their status, which is ALWAYS required. White cismale capitalist hegemony is never asked for proof.

^^Anybody have a Rosetta Stone to interpret that?

1. Contexts of economy “Society is intrinsically meaningless,” says Lyotard. In a sense, Lacan suggests the use of postpatriarchial capitalist theory to challenge sexism. Sontag uses the term ‘the predeconstructivist paradigm of discourse’ to denote a textual whole.

The main theme of the works of Smith is the meaninglessness, and some would say the paradigm, of submaterial truth. It could be said that a number of narratives concerning postpatriarchial capitalist theory exist. The primary theme of Buxton’s[1] essay on the predeconstructivist paradigm of discourse is the role of the poet as observer.

However, the subject is contextualised into a neocultural theory that includes narrativity as a paradox. Debord promotes the use of the predeconstructivist paradigm of discourse to modify class.

Thus, Lacan uses the term ‘predeconstructive textual theory’ to denote the difference between sexual identity and society. Foucault suggests the use of neocultural theory to attack class divisions.

But Scuglia[2] suggests that we have to choose between the predeconstructivist paradigm of discourse and textual submodernist theory. Any number of situationisms concerning the defining characteristic of dialectic sexual identity may be revealed.

2. Smith and neocultural theory “Class is dead,” says Sartre; however, according to Dahmus[3] , it is not so much class that is dead, but rather the fatal flaw, and some would say the economy, of class. However, in Ulysses, Joyce reiterates Baudrillardist simulation; in A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man, although, he deconstructs postpatriarchial capitalist theory. Many narratives concerning neotextual discourse exist.

But the main theme of the works of Joyce is not theory, but pretheory. The fatal flaw, and eventually the collapse, of postpatriarchial capitalist theory intrinsic to Joyce’s Finnegan’s Wake emerges again in A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man.

It could be said that Marx uses the term ‘capitalist discourse’ to denote a mythopoetical whole. If postpatriarchial capitalist theory holds, we have to choose between the predeconstructivist paradigm of discourse and neodeconstructivist narrative.

However, Baudrillard’s critique of neocultural theory states that the task of the participant is social comment. Parry[4] suggests that we have to choose between postpatriarchial capitalist theory and Lacanist obscurity.

The violent enforcement of the cismale heteronormative droit de seigneur at Oberlin reveals the extent to which capitalist imperial heteronormalcy is incapable of accommodating trans non-binary POC in their soi-disant "meritocratic" production mills. Manufacturing content!

The sad thing about r218 is that I'm an academic and I know fellow academics who write like this.

R217 Hegemonic interpellation: The way in which the individual absorbs the dominant cultural influence. I believe the post was written tongue in cheek.

Both sides have made their closing arguments. Despite having an $887 million endowment, Oberlin has claimed it is cash poor (the president of the college testified it might go under in a few years), and so a large punitive award would therefore hurt disadvantaged students.

The jury is now in deliberation.

Not related to this thread but can't find the thread I want to post it on.

Is the DL spazzing out for anyone else right now? Every 15 seconds I get this popup:

[quote]Reloading the page now to get latest version of DataLounge from the server

Yes, Viv, same here. It’s definitely spazzing. All my watched threads are gone, too.

So let's see... that kid committed some crimes, and then assaulted the person who tried to stop him, and got his friends to join him in the assault. He then accused the person who tried to apprehend him with a crime he had not committed, and got a mob of low-information allies to protest and harass the guy who hadn't done anything wrong!

Jonathan Aladin has a hell of a future in Republican politics if he's smart, he's just the kind of guy they're looking for.

I was wondering why Aladin and his two friends admitted in court with signed statements that Gibson's did not pursue them for racist reasons, but now you've summed it up so nicely, r225, it's clear why; had Gibson's sued the three of them, they would have been liable for an enormous verdict of this nature. They were the most malicious ones here.

("They" being Aladin and his two friends--not Gibson's)

The kids deserve reparations!

Will be be subjected to stupid posts like r228 for the next 1.5 years?

I hope not.

Maximum punitive damages awarded. Another $22 million !!

r222 I assume if they can't find the $22 million the bakers get the college buildings instead. I smell a sitcom.

R226, No, I'm sure the three kids are pretty judgment-proof (you can't be liable for more than your worth--these kids won't have assets). However, since the bakery guy was assaulted, they would be looking at felony charges--and that means possible prison time. So, they had very good reasons for pleading to lesser charges with no jail time.

Raimundo is a fucking idiot--the last thing any administrator should do is behave in a way that exposes the school to that kind of liability. What the fuck was she thinking? I expect that the total amount will end up being far less than the current award, but it was Raimundo's stupidity that led to the suit and verdict in the first place.

Along with skyrocketing tuitions, increasingly bloated school bureaucracies have been the bane of higher education. My own alma mater had some dean of diversity who turned out to ignore numerous complaints by students about sexual assault. Apparently, he saw his job as collecting his paycheck.

Huzzah!

Justice is served!

$33,000,000 dollars worth.

R218 I am so glad I have a STEM doctorate as opposed to a sociology or linguistics PhD. I can read and understand my colleagues' writings as they can of mine.

Oberlin should have to sign an agreement never again to falsely accuse anyone of racism or to encourage or allow anyone else to do so either.

This will almost certainly get reduced on appeal, but the damage to Oberlin's reputation is pretty massive.

I will be very curious to see how many people in the administration are still working there (or in higher ed at all) in a year's time.

[quote] Raimundo is a fucking idiot--the last thing any administrator should do is behave in a way that exposes the school to that kind of liability. What the fuck was she thinking?

She was thinking she was immune from any real accountability for her actions, and to some extent, she is. Even if they invite her to vacate her dean's position, she no doubt has retreat rights and will go back to being a member of the faculty. Or they might create a high-level diversity administrator position for her.

If that president was correct and their finances were terrible, Social Justice policies destroyed a 186 year institution in months. One that had an endowment of almost a billion dollars.

Since the payday for the Gibsons was so big, we could see even more lawsuits .

Since reason and shame have had NO effect on curbing these insane SJW incidents, and have completely failed to stop their administrative/faculty enablers, maybe $33 mm will have a better chance at getting through. REAL discrimination should be called out and removed, FAKE discrimination--especially when it has REAL consequences--needs to be met with commensurate judgment!

BTW, spoiler alert: this judgement will have ZERO effect on the current administration's belief that they were correct in protecting the shoplifters/robbing students. NOTHING gets through to true believing SJWs. They have to be removed like weeds, because I guarantee these administrators will go to their grave with zero qualms about hurting the Bakery and still apologizing for being white. It is a cult.

Eh, it may not have effect on the current administration's beliefs, but it will have an effect on who's in that administration. Oberlin can't afford to keep Raimundo--she may leave with a settlement, but she'll leave. Since her idiocy opened Oberlin to major liability, there's cause to fire her. She may have a contract or tenure, but those things aren't bulletproof. I expect a few more heads to roll.

Other LACs will notice this. Being the most SJW school ever is going to look less appealing. The smaller schools that have been pulling themselves up--Bennington, Savannah School of the Arts, aren't doing it by being woker-than-thou--but by offering more flexibility with majors, stressing overseas programs, or proximity to a large city (well, not Bennington).

All current Oberlin students just got royally screwed. Sure, they could have gone elsewhere, but they are seeing their 200K diploma devalued significantly with this bad publicity.

Some insider should write a "Devil Wears Prada" style takedown of Raimondo and the other administrators. Would make an interesting movie even if it's not a story Hollywood wants to tell.

The current president has a lot of Chutzpah saying this will hurt financial aid and the school is in danger of going under. There's no excuse for that! This school needs to go back to brass tacks and cut the crap.

A growing number of Americans are questioning the value of higher education. This is an example of why.

I fucking love you, R46.

I like your nerve, R225! How shamelessly you project this scandal onto Republicans when every bit of it was the handiwork of hysterical far lefties.

I wonder what the liberal New Yorker who really sexually assaulted Lena Dunham at Oberlin has to say about this.

Distin Brown should get a wild card in Wimbledon every year regardless of his ranking. I highly doubt low IQ Wimbledon authorities will do that though.

[quote] Distin Brown should get a wild card in Wimbledon every year regardless of his ranking.

He doesn't even go here.

"A growing number of Americans are questioning the value of higher education. This is an example of why. "

Same for studying the Liberal Arts. Their popular value has slowly been declining over the last few decades as a degree in any of the liberal arts is of less and less use on the job market, but this SJW nonsense has people equating a degree in non-STEM fields or from a liberal arts college with foolishness, uselessness, and a propensity for making trouble.

Honestly, if some Republican asshole had wanted to set out to destroy the reputation of higher education and learning for the sake of learning, they couldn't do better than to pose as some super-woke Leftist administrator who turns their pupils into unemployable monsters.

r249 Which is obscene when you consider that a PROPER liberal arts education teaches a student how to think FOR THEMSELVES, not just how to think. It provides a well-rounded education from which the student can draw inference and connections of his or her own, and use tools from one discipline in application of another, resulting in a greater appreciation for them all AND the ability to CRITICALLY think.

These current SJW liberal arts just want to teach you how to think, not how to think for yourself. If you commit thoughcrime, you are a bigot and it's off to the metaphorical camps (which, remember when the "goldsmiths lgbtq" center tweeted that stalin's gulags were just fun, reeducation vacations for dissidents... no killing, just learning!)

They are SJW and NOT liberals, because liberals (true to the definition) are horrified by this nonsense and complete abandonment of LIBERAL philosophy.

Ain't it the truth, R250! A true well-educated liberal thinks for themselves and sees through bullshit and groupthink, while these SJW nitwits have all the critical thinking skills and political sophistication of a gang of high school Mean Girls.

They'll attack anyone the group tells them to attack, with a viciousness given strength by the underlying fear that if they don't show enough loyalty and groupthink then they'll be the next victim.

If I were the Gibsons I'd take the money and run. Befo,re leaving I'd raze the building then acquire and install a large Confederate statue removed from a Southern state. I'd place it on the site behind an electric fence as my parting shot. The three students should have been expelled from Oberlin for theft and assault, it was plain as day in the police report.

[quote] these SJW nitwits have all the critical thinking skills and political sophistication of a gang of high school Mean Girls. They'll attack anyone the group tells them to attack, with a viciousness given strength by the underlying fear that if they don't show enough loyalty and groupthink then they'll be the next victim.

Much like datalounge

btw, it might not be clear but the judgment is $33 million in punitive damages on top of the original $11 million. FORTY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS TOTAL wtg Bakers.

Remembering the Covington students libel case I suspect the lawyers for NBC and the Washington Post were really bummed by this news.

r247 tennis is a sexist, cissexist, white supremacist sport.

The Covington case is nothing like the Oberlin one--and libel's a whole different ball of wax. The Covington kid will have a very hard time showing that he experienced anything close to $275 million worth of damage. Libel is tough to prove and courts historically value freedom of the press.

Which is why Fox is still in business.

[quote]Oberlin should have to sign an agreement never again to falsely accuse anyone of racism or to encourage or allow anyone else to do so either.

Once they sign the check for $44,000,000.00, I don’t think that’ll be necessary. They have a very large receipt to remind them.

[quote]The damage was worse than most realize. On a walk through campus several weekends ago, this reporter talked to about 20 students at random on campus, and every one of them said they would never shop at Gibson’s because the business and family are racist. When shown the police reports and the fact that the three shoplifters plead guilty and claimed “no racial profiling” was involved, most of the students I spoke with said, “Cops lie.”

That sums up the dire situation, R257, on the far right and far left - echo chambers.

R258 Trump isn't helping with "fake news".

[quote] btw, it might not be clear but the judgment is $33 million in punitive damages on top of the original $11 million. FORTY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS TOTAL wtg Bakers.

[quote] Once they sign the check for $44,000,000.00, I don’t think that’ll be necessary. They have a very large receipt to remind them.

That will not happen.

First of all, Oberlin will never have to pay out forty-four million dollars; the state of Ohio sets the cap for punitive damages at twice the compensatory damages amount, so the jury overreached. The judge in the case will be required by Ohio state law to reduce the amount of all damages to thirty three million dollars at least. Having to pay that would be the worst case scenario for Oberlin.

Second, this case will almost certainly be appealed, and the amount will likely be reduced on appeal.

r258, that's pretty much it.

I teach at a LAC, and I have noticed our SJWs will not change their minds in similar situations. They[italic] know/italic] they are right, and facts will not convince them when they are patently wrong about certain things. They've either learned from the Trumpians, or are responding to inconvenient truths in the same way they do.

R260 you should read the Legal Insurrection articles, they don't think it's as cut and dry as you claim.

Funny how many people are desperately trying to blame this on Trump and the Republicans. Trump Derangement Syndrome is real.

It does appear that social justice and SJWS, and it's perceived 'righteousness', has really replaced religion in a lot of these people. These would be the intense believers or converts running around demanding heathens that don't follow their church, God and his rules be burned at the stake. Consequences of letting psychotic leftists terrorists that went around bombing shit from the decades past turn in respected professors.

R263 who, specifically? How many in this 264 post thread?

[quote]and it's perceived 'righteousness',

Oh, dear!

One of the key issues on appeal will be the following questions: 1. Is calling someone or an entity racist an opinion or an actionable false statement of fact? 2. Is saying that someone or an entity had a long account of racial profiling and discrimination an opinion or an actionable false statement of fact?

On the opinion issue, here's what the trial court wrote in denying Oberlin's motion for summary judgment:

" Here, it is undisputed that Meredith Raimondo presented at least one individual, Jason Hawk, with a copy of the protest flyer. The remaining evidence surrounding the distribution of the flyer, and the explanations for doing so, are in dispute. But Plaintiffs have presented testimony from individuals who say they observed Raimondo and other Oberlin College employees handing out flyers at the protest. Further, Plaintiffs offered evidence that Defendants permitted the protesters to make copies of the flyer on the Oberlin College Conservatory’s Office’s copy machine during the protests and provided protesters with refreshments and gloves for use during the protests. * * * Here, the accusation that Gibson’s has a “long account of racial profiling and discrimination” goes beyond implication and directly tells the reasonable reader that the author’s previous statement that “[Gibson’s] is a racist establishment” is supported by a lengthy and potentially documented record of racial profiling and discrimination. To the average reader, the statement of a LONG ACCOUNT OF RACIAL PROFILING AND DISCRIMINATION suggests that the publisher has knowledge of a documented past history of such activity. The “LONG ACCOUNT” language implies to the reasonable reader that the publisher’s statement is based on defamatory facts that have not been disclosed. See Id. at 251-52. The implication of the undisclosed facts supporting the statements of the flyer make them as damaging as an assertion of fact. See Scott, at 251-52. A letter from the Defendants also supports verifiability. On November 11, 2016, and in response to the events at Gibson’s Bakery on November 9, 2016, Marvin Krislov, then President of Oberlin College and Meredith Raimondo, Dean of Students, issued a joint statement. In the context of the alleged racially charged incident, they said: “We will commit every resource to determining the full and true narrative, including exploring whether this is a pattern and not an isolated incident.” The Defendants indicate a willingness to “commit every resource” to determine “if this [racial discrimination] by the plaintiffs is “a pattern and not an isolated incident.” The Defendants’ willingness to commit resources is probative of their belief that a pattern of racial discrimination by the Plaintiffs is in fact verifiable. In this Court’s view, a “pattern of racial discrimination” and “a long account of racial discrimination” are synonymous and plausibly verifiable…. Based on a totality of the circumstances and construing the evidence in the light most favorable to Plaintiffs, the non-moving party, it is this Court’s view that the statements made in the flyer are not constitutionally protected opinion.

I think in the finding at r268 it will be hard for these matters to be disputed in court. Krislov was stupid to make that statement without backing it up, and Raimondo was stupid to have provided copiers, refreshments, and gloves to the protestors for their protests. Krislov is now gone, but Raimondo will soon be too. She has no business working in Students Life--she is too ideological and lacks the common sense to see her own culpability mistakes.

r269 while that may be true, this is about money. I feel everything about how the college did/didn't act should be looked at through that lens to predict their future.

If it stops their money, i.e. future enrollment, then they'll care. If not, they won't and might not even seriously appeal. Staff will probably not be moved, either.

I still can't believe the college's legal team argued that Gibson's was only worth around $30k, essentially painting the 5-generation shop as worthless. If they wanted to make themselves look like the arrogant elite institution with a near $1B endowment, that would have done it for the jury.

And then they tried to use poor students as a shield, "if you take money from us you're taking it out of the pockets of poor orphans!"

Totally shameless.

PC Shamelessness is a major at Oberlin.

Justice for Social Justice Warriors is sweet.

All they care about is hurt feelings, they don't give a rat's ass about corruption, environmental damage, poverty, lack of access to health care, or any other big issue.

And they don't care about most people's feelings, just the select groups such as transwomen of color. Everyone else is subject to attack regardless of how they feel.

[quote] She has no business working in Students Life--she is too ideological

Many student life divisions, from community colleges all the way up to the Ivy League, are infested with people just like her.

“Gibson bakery’s archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests,” the college said. “The guilt or innocence of the students is irrelevant to both the root cause of the protests and this litigation.”

[quote] Many student life divisions, from community colleges all the way up to the Ivy League, are infested with people just like her.

That in no way negates my comment.

r276, where did you get that comment from Oberlin from?

R278

[quote]This verdict, by holding Oberlin accountable for words that were not spoken by it, and by showing a lack of restraint in terms of damages, is not in the public interest. The appellate courts should strike down this verdict.

WOW, r279! I am surprised more people have not seized upon that quote--that's the smoking gun as regards the arrogance and hatefulness of the college!

Here's the thing--Raimondo and co. may never admit that they're in the wrong, but it doesn't really matter. Oberlin's Board of Trustees, the alumni and a lot of other people behind the scenes DO understand that Raimondo's idiocy is costing Oberlin big time--both in terms of the money spent on the lawsuit and the damage to Oberlin's image as far as recruitment goes. I truly doubt that Oberlin will pay $44 million, but even when the judgment gets knocked down (they pretty much always, always do), this is still a costly lawsuit for Oberlin that.should.never.have.happened. It happened because Raimondo, in particular, is an idiot. If Oberlin wants to survive as an institution, Raimondo needs to go--as well as the other administrators with zero understanding of their responsibilities towards the school (i.e. avoiding legal exposure by not libeling local businesses.)

There will be a lot of pressure on Oberlin to clean house--I expect it will. It might not openly admit that it's doing so, but it will happen. Things change when serious money gets involved.

As someone who teaches at a LAC, I agree with r282.

Is Oberlin’s insurance carrier responsible for the payout?

Who ponies up?

The insurance company says this sort of bullying is not covered risk

[quote]The writer Jon Ronson once observed that every day in the social media era, “a new person emerges as a magnificent hero or a sickening villain. It’s all very sweeping.” In his 2015 book So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed, his subjects found themselves beset by angry detractors for, say, an insensitive Twitter joke or Facebook photo. They lost jobs, received threats, even pondered suicide. And they mostly retreated from view until the shame storm passed.

Maybe the bakery and the kids were in this from the beginning?

The kids say we’ll confess after your business takes a hit and then split the $.

I forgot Salon was a thing.

R287 sure, that's likely

That New York Timea article really seems like it's written by someone who agrees with the college. They leave out a lot of the damning evidence that was presented and basically just do a "he said, she said" presentation of things. It doesn't give a good overview of the case but pretends it is.

And they also didn't open comments r290

What do you expect from The New Woke Times?

[quote] All they care about is hurt feelings, they don't give a rat's ass about corruption, environmental damage, poverty, lack of access to health care, or any other big issue.

[quote] And they don't care about most people's feelings, just the select groups

The same can be said of deplorables. Identity politics have taken over public discourse in this country on both the left and the right.

Man, that Atlantic article is slanted too. The author was using a theme throughout it about "public shaming" and completely overlooked the facts of the case. This wasn't public shaming. He was using the case to make some other point about future lawsuits for people being bullied on Twitter and such but was using the wrong lawsuit as a framing device.

It's like they have no idea what happened and just read one article on it.

[quote]That New York Timea article really seems like it's written by someone who agrees with the college. They leave out a lot of the damning evidence that was presented and basically just do a "he said, she said" presentation of things. It doesn't give a good overview of the case but pretends it is.

There was another NYT article on the case this week that claimed the son put the suspect into a “chokehold”, which is something only the Times seems to have mentioned. Interesting that in this follow up article, the chokehold has been downgraded to a “tackle”. Meanwhile all other reports about the incident, including from the Washington Post and court testimony, all state the three suspects kicked and punched the son while he was on the ground.

I think the institutional mainstream publications are slanted towards the college.

r296 this is a town and gown issue in flyover country--where do you think the MSM is going to land?

Privileged elitists use the power of the state and PC media to attack ordinary working class people. Typical progressives.

NOTE TO SJWs, COLLEGE KIDS and PEEPS OF COLOR:

Know all of the facts before jumping on the bandwagon. Too often those 'people' have rushed to judgement and it turns out the initial reports weren't accurate then you look foolish. You also end up hurting those with legit complaints. Tawana Brawley, Duke Lacrosse Rape Case, Freddy Grey, University of NY at Albany Case, Jussie Smollet and on and on and on. Basically any case that Sharpton gets his greedy lil hands on.

"The same can be said of deplorables. Identity politics have taken over public discourse in this country on both the left and the right. "

And now the Idiot Left has joined in the Idiot Right in attacking science, for telling them things that they don't want to hear.

Evolution IS a fact! Human beings ARE sexually dimorphic! Yelling about inconvenient truths won't change them!

It doesn't really matter what the son might have done, once the kids pleaded guilty, the case is closed. That's what I don't understand about this protest. It seems like it happened after the conviction.

Most media -- "MSM" or not -- are not going to go along with the idea that people or institutions can be sued for huge sums of money for saying offensive crap. It conflicts with the First Amendment. It's a direct threat not just to "SJWs" but also . . . FOX News.

I wonder what town-gown relationships are like in a place where the college was pressuring local businesses to let students get away with petty crimes, and actively encouraging students to harass one that didn't. Talk about privilege! They were trying to make their students into a local protected class, and obviously they didn't see a problem with treating the townspeople and local businesses as second-class citizens. That's got to be resented.

FYI I live in a college town and there's nothing like that kind of idiocy, but then the college's focus is STEM programs and agricultural research. There's no room for nonsense and coddling in STEM and Ag.

[quote]It conflicts with the First Amendment.

You really don’t understand the First Amendment, do you?

Hint: No one was thrown in jail for saying anything.

Listen people. What happened is that the SJW and admin got riled up between the day of the event and the months UNTIL the 3 students copped to their act. And then, Oberlin STILL wasn't ready to do a mea culpa. So you know, fuck Oberlin.

R304, the First Amendment applies to civil tort liability, as I'm sure you'll recall from cases such as New York Times v. Sullivan (1964), Dunn & Bradstreet v. Greenmoss (1985), Hustler Magazine v. Falwell (1988), Milkovich v. Lorain Journal Co. (1990) . . .

The First Amendment doesn't protect Oberlin from libel. Oberlin officials lied about Gibson's and actively worked to damage its business. It really doesn't get much more cut-and-dried than that.

Oberlin's lawyers needed to have a come-to-Jesus moment with their client. Oberlin should have apologized and settled for a couple of hundred-thousand.

And the newspaper cases people keep mentioning really don't have much to do with this. Journalists have various protections because the courts recognize that A) freedom of the press matters and B) mistakes get made in the process of news gathering--which is why the kid in the Covington case isn't going to see $275 million. Journalists don't generally go around organizing boycotts on false premises. The WP corrected its story--Oberlin still seems unclear as to how in the wrong it is.

Well, the thing about the newspaper articles (NYT, Atlantic, et. al) and the Oberlin lawyer's and President's letters regarding this issue (that totally denied responsibility and vowed to continue to fight) is that they STRONGLY indicate that, as I said in r239, Oberlin specifically and Woke Inc. more generally are completely avoiding ANY self-reflection in the wake of the verdict, and are in fact pressing further into their SJW cause.

I hope that r282 is right, because I firmly believe these universities are doing real harm to the progressive movement by promulgating the toxic SJW politics and shaping students who can't think for themselves and only follow the "woke" party line. People like that can and have been used to do and believe ANYTHING, and that hurts our cause right now and into the future. I want them to get back on track doing the good work that universities, when they're operating correctly, do. That doesn't look to be happening.

Hopefully the Board closely interviewed the black female they hired and determined if she is the tool they need to clean out the woke admin that is burning down the house. Probably couldn't get white person to do that.

The Constitutional limits on libel and defamation actions apply to everyone, R307, not just journalists.

Freedom of the press makes for some differences, R310. The Fourth Estate has its own protections.

I appreciate your idea shower, R218, but I think that the open position, which helps people grow their strategic staircase, would not be in alignment with your skill set. Your elitist obfuscation attempts to boil the ocean, and is not organic to our bricks and clicks wheelhouse.

Here is what I say to you r312:

“Language is impossible,” says Bataille. However, if deconstructive theory holds, we have to choose between surrealism and Foucaultist power relations.

If one examines dialectic postcapitalist theory, one is faced with a choice: either reject deconstructive theory or conclude that narrativity is intrinsically used in the service of capitalism, given that language is equal to truth. Debord promotes the use of neoconstructivist sublimation to attack hierarchy. Therefore, the primary theme of Sargeant’s[1] critique of deconstructive theory is not narrative per se, but postnarrative.

In the works of Gaiman, a predominant concept is the distinction between masculine and feminine. Bataille suggests the use of Lacanist obscurity to modify and analyse society. In a sense, Lyotard uses the term ‘dialectic postcapitalist theory’ to denote the role of the reader as observer.

The subject is contextualised into a surrealism that includes culture as a paradox. Thus, many sublimations concerning the collapse, and eventually the absurdity, of predeconstructive class exist.

Bailey[2] holds that we have to choose between capitalist neomodernist theory and the patriarchial paradigm of expression. Therefore, the characteristic theme of the works of Gibson is not deconceptualism, but predeconceptualism.

The subject is interpolated into a dialectic postcapitalist theory that includes consciousness as a whole. In a sense, Sartre promotes the use of subdialectic textual theory to deconstruct capitalism.

The opening/closing distinction intrinsic to Gibson’s Mona Lisa Overdrive is also evident in Idoru, although in a more preconstructive sense. But if surrealism holds, we have to choose between capitalist objectivism and subsemantic construction.

Bataille suggests the use of dialectic postcapitalist theory to attack society. In a sense, de Selby[3] suggests that we have to choose between deconstructive theory and textual socialism.

2. Surrealism and precapitalist dematerialism If one examines cultural neodialectic theory, one is faced with a choice: either accept precapitalist dematerialism or conclude that the task of the participant is significant form. Marx promotes the use of dialectic postcapitalist theory to challenge class divisions. Thus, if surrealism holds, we have to choose between semioticist discourse and predialectic objectivism.

“Class is part of the defining characteristic of art,” says Lyotard. Foucault uses the term ‘precapitalist dematerialism’ to denote the role of the poet as observer. It could be said that a number of desublimations concerning surrealism may be found.

Marx suggests the use of Derridaist reading to read and analyse society. Thus, the subject is contextualised into a surrealism that includes language as a reality.

The modern paradigm of consensus holds that sexual identity, perhaps ironically, has significance, but only if the premise of dialectic postcapitalist theory is invalid; if that is not the case, we can assume that art may be used to reinforce sexism. Therefore, Sartre promotes the use of precapitalist dematerialism to deconstruct class divisions.

Lesbians PP

R313 is that what's printed on those Dr. Bronner bottles? Or is that Abstruse brand spring water?

Statement from the president:

"Dear Members of the Oberlin Community,

"By now many of you will have heard about the latest development in the Gibson’s Bakery lawsuit, a jury’s declaration of punitive damages against Oberlin. Let me be absolutely clear: This is not the final outcome. This is, in fact, just one step along the way of what may turn out to be a lengthy and complex legal process. I want to assure you that none of this will sway us from our core values. It will not distract, deter, or materially harm our educational mission, for today’s students or for generations to come.

"We will take the time we need to thoughtfully consider the course that is in Oberlin’s best interests. I will update the community as we make these decisions. I am confident that when we resolve this matter, it will look substantially different than it looks today.

"We are disappointed in the jury’s decisions and the fragmentary and sometimes distorted public discussion of this case. But we respect the integrity of the jury, and we value our relationship with the town and region that are our home. We will learn from this lawsuit as we build a stronger relationship with our neighbors.

"This has been a remarkable year for the college and conservatory. There is unprecedented unity around an ambitious new vision for Oberlin. The work of fulfilling that vision is already underway. Long after this lawsuit has receded from memory, that work will shape Oberlin’s future. I appreciate the contributions so many of you have made, your perspective at this important time, and the commitment you have shown to what matters most for Oberlin.

Sincerely,

Carmen Twillie Ambar President

R316's letter contains a whole lotta nothin'.

I would give that statement a D if it were submitted by a student. VAGUE!

Vague, but less adversarial than the previous stance--i.e. valuing the relationship with the town, respecting the integrity of the jury (as opposed to that idiot lawyer's comment before the punitive damages were set) let's look forward and focus on our mission.

Yep, time to do some damage repair and see if they swing a settlement with the Gibsons without having to grovel too much. Wonder if Raimondo's old enough to pull off a retirement gambit?

Jonathan Turley wrote a piece on this matter. He covers a lot of the same ground we know BUT he adds several items I had not seen before that dig Oberlin even deeper. Like what they told the professor who objected to the college's actions. I tried to post them but for some reason they won't go through but there is the link to Turley's article.

Thanks r320

R319 Thank you, for making some interesting points on that statement.

Yeah, some of these crazy-ass colleges seem to be run by people who are incapable of saying "no" to anyone who claims to be an activist.

Which is no way to run a university, no way to educate the young, and no way to prepare their students for the real world. Try telling your boss you want to blow off a deadline and get paid extra because you've going to protest instead of work. My sympathies to any professor at these colleges who's actually trying to teach anyone anything.

The student newspaper, The Oberlin Review, just came out today with an editorial about the verdict.

Anyone expecting the students had learned some lessons will be sadly mistaken. The media and the police and the judiciary are all to blame.

Eh, of course, the student newspaper took Oberlin's side. It's going to take some time before the kids will admit that maybe, just maybe, they weren't fully in the right . But will they convince incoming students or prospective students (and their parents) of that? Different question. My guess is that the tour guides will be told not to discuss Gibson's.

They're all confused about how free speech works--no, you can't destroy someone's reputation on false grounds. The First doesn't protect anyone from that.

WOW R347 that's amazing!. They are like dogs with a bone. Still no accounting for the crime. Hopeless they are and this coming from(me, although I did not attend) a LONG lineage of Oberlin graduates from almost the beginning.l

"In a subsequent meeting between Raimondo and David Gibson, Oberlin College also insisted that Gibson's Bakery call Raimondo when students are caught stealing rather than informing the police."

So for all their fondness for attacking anyone they see as "privileged", the SJW students and administrators at Oberlin are OUTRAGED that the citizens of Oberlin town are not treating them as a privileged class, and allowing them to get away with petty crimes.

And there you have all the cluelessness, unconscious snobbery, and hypocrisy of campus SJWs in one simple sentence.

Awarded $6.5M+ in lawyer’s fees.

So what happens to Oberlin now?

They continue to pretend they are the victims naturally.

Where are Oberlin's Board of Trustees? If I was on of them, heads would roll.

[quote]Where are Oberlin's Board of Trustees?

Oh, dear!

R332??

Where IS Oberlin’s Board of Trustees?

The subject (The Board of Trustees) is singular, regardless of the fact that it comprises Trustees.

The entity is the Board of Trustees. The same way you wouldn’t say “Where are the Board?”

Use a plural verb when the members of the group are acting as individuals. The family are each doing a different chore. The couple are taking separate cars to work today. The jury were allowed to go home to their families each day. A litter of kittens have been running around the shelter making messes.

We can't be sure if the entire Board is functioning as one entity in agreement( is) or separate individuals ( are) of one entity.

[quote]Use a plural verb when the members of the group are [bold]acting[/bold] as individuals.

Indeed, if they were acting, as in a verb, that would be correct, like the family and jury examples you proffered. In the case of the question in dispute, though, the Board of Trustees is one entity, a singular noun

The gay community is made up of hundreds of individuals. Nevertheless, the noun “gay community” is singular.

Congress also is made up of individuals and we know damn well they don’t act as one entity, but as a noun, it is singular: Congress. One wouldn’t say, “Where are Congress,” but rather, “Where is Congress?” It would be correct to say “Where are the Congressmen?” because the noun is plural.

The above grammar rules are American English. Brits say stuff like "Parliament are considering..."

How Canadians and other English speakers handle the plural/singular dichotomy I don't know.

Really, r337?

Odd then that the BBC, The Telegraph, etc. don’t say it that way.

Do Oberlin-related discussions merit such grammar finessing? Acceptance rate was at 34% and probably just rose to 50%! Total has-been school.

Touché, r339.

Grammar is fun to discuss when it’s two civil people doing it, though.

It's a very good question. Where am the board of trustees ?

Where are the Trustees of the Board?

I went to Gibson’s to buy some biscotti, and the employees poured white flour over my head!

R338, R337 is correct. It's a classic difference between British and American English.

Oberlin asked the judge for time time to appeal the ruling, but had to pay $36mm bond. Also, it's recently come out that the co-owner of Gibson's (son of the 91 yo co-owner) has pancreatic cancer, and he is accusing Oberlin of trying to wait the bakery out until the owners are dead. Oberlin's lawyers learned of the cancer in february, but moved to keep it hidden from the jury. Gibson's agreed to this, saying that he didn't want anything to influence the jury other than the facts of the case.

Oberlin has learned NOTHING.

A college like that is a cynical business.What are they are supposed to "learn". It's obviously run by hypocritical cunts who know exactly who they are.

Thanks for the update, r345.

Oberlin College denied new trial in Gibson’s Bakery case

Oberlin College filed two post-trial motions, a Motion for Judgment Notwithstanding The Verdict (pdf.) and Motion for a New Trial (pdf.), as explained in our post, Oberlin College Seeks New Trial in Gibson’s Bakery Case.

Gibson’s Bakery responded with an Opposition to the Motion for Judgment Notwithstanding The Verdict (pdf.), and Opposition to the Motion for a New Trial (pdf.), as explained in our post, Gibson’s Bakery: Oberlin College’s request for a new trial is “𝒃𝒂𝒔𝒆𝒍𝒆𝒔𝒔”.