'Big Little Lies' S02E01 - Live Viewing Thread and Discussion

Ugh I need to find a link to watch for free

Oh, here we go with the kids wearing sunglasses worth thousands of dollars in the intro.

Vallée doing his memory thing, nice!

Meryl introduced in the first couple of minutes. Slaying already. Incredible delivery.

A black male character, omg!

Everyone acting like nothing's happened. Except Zoë Kravitz, who still has some humanity left in her.

Shit, Meryl got amazing lines. Reading these bitches for filth like a proper drag queen.

I love Reese in this, though she might be playing herself.

ROBIN WEIGERT in the house!!

Meryl!!

Robin plays the best therapist on TV, hands down.

Kravitz is going to melt the fuck down any second now. And you just know it's going to be spectacular when this artisanal yoga bitch finally blows.

Who’s tori!?

"A snide fuck!" That's hilarious.

I think Diane Keaton should have Meryl’s role.

r12:

[quote]Tori Bachman is a recurring character in the HBO series Big Little Lies. She is Joseph Bachman's wife who after she finds out about her husband's affair suspects Madeline of being his mistress.

So many conversations scattered across separate threads, perhaps we could all gather in this dedicated thread?

Like that will happen.

r16 Be the change you want to see in the world!

r14 I could see that but Diane is a pretty stilted performer these days.

Sufjan Stevens with his Oscar-nominated song!!

Shit, Kravitz is looking like the Angel of Death right now.

She is very skinny. I think I love this season just for having Mystery of Love on their soundtrack. Meryl is 100% lost in her character. I see her winning an Emmy before she opened her mouth.

R10

Hnph!

r21 Agree with all of that 100%.

It's crazy what Meryl is doing in this dinner scene.

I DONT CARE ABOUT HOMELESS PEOPLE

Madeline not going to college does not fit the character.

Reese. Little miss type a. Rushed to marry a CAA agent when the career was faltering.

Yes, sociopathic careerist. I love her “I’m just a nice southern girl act” act on ellen. Aliens from space can see through her b.s.

r25 Agreed, but maybe that's why she's overcompensating with this frau crap?

What a closing line, courtesy of Meryl! This season is already iconic, I'm sorry.

Alexander should be nude often before he gets too old. Look at Viggo's career.

The writing is VERY VERY different this season. Much punchier, confrontational and far less esoteric.

I hope Nicole"s son is in therapy.

R25, it does fit in terms of her being a young mom who was struggling financially at the time she would have been going to college. It doesn't make sense if she hasn't gone since Abby was young, though.

Meryl darling this is why we love you. Your Emmy will be in your California address Tuesday.

The "Special Thanks" to Jean-Marc Vallée at the end of the credits shocked me. I had completely forgotten he's not attached to his show anymore. So sorry for the shoutout at r3.

[quote]While the first season was helmed by Canadian director Jean-Marc Vallée (known for his work on Dallas Buyers Club and alongside Witherspoon in Wild), the second series will be directed by English filmmaker Andrea Arnold. Her work has won several accolades at the Cannes Film Festival, and she recently directed three episodes of the Emmy-winning series Transparent.

The cinematography in the first episode did seem to lack... something, I'm sorry to say. The memory bits aren't done as expertly either.

I can see Celeste putting up with Mary Louise (which incidentally is Meryl's actual name); but I find it hard to believe her friends would put up with her, even out of politeness. Her pass]ive-aggressiveness is too over-the-top.

I played a very important part as a maid. All my scenes were deleted. My agent keeps calling HBO to find out why. They won't return his calls.

They tolerate her because her son died. Will there be a for real murder this season? I'm sure Meryl will get bitch slapped sooner or later.

Is that a wig or Shailene Woodley's real hair? UGH.

r38 Bit of both, I think. Her bangs are pretty atrocious in real life as well.

Real? If wigs are better this season. I think it looks good.

This director did American Honey which had a young rough looking Brad Pittish actor showing peen several times..

I'm won over. Can't wait till next Sunday.

Shaleine is way too smug. How was Madeline struggling? And how is she so wealthy now??

Laura Dern looking casually stunning.

MMM mentioned in the first season how she pushes her daughters so hard because she wants them to have what she didn't have, and how she took Jane under her wing because Jane's story reminded her of her own.

There is no way Celeste would tolerate the stopping, suspicious passive-aggression of Mary Louise.

The dilaogue is not nearly as complex this season. It was a novel before, but it's definitely TV now.

This is our fork in the road. Love s last episooooode

David E. Kelley wrote this episode. Is that correct?

Who is singling the closing song? Anybody know?

One season was enough. This episode was terrible

Why would you have watched this episode if you believe one season is enough?

Well said R44 - it was a deep complex novel. Now it’s a TV writiers room. And the cinematography was better last season. Vallee was better.

The quality has definitely fallen off. All of the character growth from last season vanished into that green-tinted ocean.

Also, “Mystery of Love”??? Really??? Do fraus have to steal EVERYTHING from us?

All that said, Meryl is slaying.

Like I said right she is greiving her son. Her not helping her find a place was a subtle dig and she was letting her know how rude she was but Meryl just gave her more. Meryl's character has no filter which makes her dangerous with these woman with a secret. I loved the first episode.

Yes Reese should play more characters like that girl in Election.

Yeah Reese has definitely typecast herself for perpetuity now. I’m surprised she took it - but maybe she realizes she needs anything she can get to stay relevant.

Reese’s character makes the show, all the other characters are boring except Mary Louise. Nicole Kidman’s character is especially 💤 Laura Dern’s “Renata is mildy entertaining. Bonnie is a complete dud. I like her husband though, he’s nuts.

Reese's character having meltdown because her daughter didn't want to go to college, was absurd. It was way too over the top.

Why not let the daughter have a gap year? To figure out what she wants to do. The daughter seemed to have a better perspective on today's college students than her mom did! The daughter mentioned the partying, drugs and sex. How refreshing she doesn't want to waste her time partying. Not to mention a waste of money. Unless students study subjects they can get actual jobs in, college can be a waste of time and money. I'm all for vocational schools for so many students. Not everyone is cut out for academia and other fields they have no talent or desire to work in.

Most young people in European countries don't immediately go off to college. They take a gap year after high school. The rich kids travel and the others figure out what field they want to work in.

Perhaps Reese's character's daughter will either succeed in her start-up job or figure she does need college. That scene was so damn stupid.

Zoey is a really bad actress and looks like she smells. I think it’s the stringy hair. She is gorgeous though and has amazing bone structure. I kinda didn’t think this show needed another season so I turned this on with low expectations, it was good and I will keep watching.

Mixed feelings.

Production isn’t as polished and as beautiful as last season, but good enough. Meryl is wonderful, though I have a hard time believing Kidman’s character would put up with all that. Reese’s character is too abrasive and unlikable.... no softness at all. I like Laura Dean a lot in this.

Shailene Woodley doesn’t work for me at all. I’d blame the bad wigs, but I’m no fan of her face, either. The boy on the beach would just throw out that Monterey 5 line to her and skip off to the ocean? Just no.

The ending about another killing was just bizarre and out of nowhere, and I was shocked the episode came in at under 45 minutes.

i thought it was funny, a dark comedy. I will definitely be watching.

that therapist actor scares the shit out of me.

[quote]Also, “Mystery of Love”??? Really??? Do fraus have to steal EVERYTHING from us?

Hahaha, that's hilarious. The song's beautiful but its presence was such a distraction for me due to its deep ties to Call Me By Your Name. There are plenty of Sufjan songs they could have used in that moment. Anything from Carrie & Lowell would have worked if they wanted to keep the same tone.

On that note, the soundtrack in general felt self conscious... like they had the first season's reputation to live up to, and I never really felt like the musical moments were well integrated into the episode. That said, the credits song was great. To the person who asked it was "The Fade Out Line" by Phoebe Killdeer and The Short Straws. I'll link it below.

I agree with those who said the cinematography was better last season. I didn't think it was bad this season, but it was definitely missing the wistful, gauzy sheen. It definitely felt like the second season of a show that struck gold the first time around. It almost always feels awkward... like everyone attempting to get back into their old clothes. We'll see how the rest of the season fares.

Meryl was good... the character's so, I don't know... obvious? She's already out here ready to cut these bitches, which is occasionally fun, but it'd be nice if they teased that character trait out, you know? Also, comedic undertones of her last line clashed with Celeste's dream. Perry was such a terrifying presence last season, and to end the episode on that button kind of undercuts how haunted Celeste actually is. I don't know... felt awkward to me.

Overall, I'm kind of meh on this first episode. Felt like scenes were somewhat rushed and haphazardly placed, but I'll keep watching. Renata's husband's model train collection was a lovely addition. I love model trains. Also, was that lady with the boob job in the grocery story introduced just to set up an affair for Adam Scott's character?

[bold]The Rumors Are True: Meryl Streep Wore Tiny Fake Teeth in Big Little Lies[/bold]

[quote]Meryl Streep reportedly requested custom prosthetics for her Big Little Lies role as Alexander Skarsgård’s mother. In order to really capture her character’s essence — to really convince you of their family ties — Streep required a more authentically Skarsgårdian mouth, something no amount of raw thespian power can manifest.

"The planet is dying, Mom, but God forbid I don't study Lysistrata?"

Bitch, Lysistrata IS what's going to save the planet in the end. We stan Lysistrata!

What is up with kids not wanting to go to college?

I liked Shailene Woodley a lot in the Descendants but can barely tolerate her now. She's one I would enter in an Actors That Annoy You thread.

i like shailene

Shailene as the best part of season 1. I hate to admit it, but reese seems like the best part of the show this season.

Anyone know where you can stream this for free?

r68 Here you go. Just let's not make this into a habit because we could and will run afoul of M.

[quote] Why would you have watched this episode if you believe one season is enough

My understanding was that the person made this decision after seeing the first episode of season 2.

Zoe = Cousin Itt in braids

I was laughing out loud. It seems more like a dark comedy this season. I liked the first episode.

I just watched the pilot from season one and the differences in nuance and tone are extreme. I know I should compare Vallee's directorial vision with Arnold's, but it's hard when that's what made the show so unique. The writing is way better as well, though they had a novel to go off of.

Yeah the writing is a little kitschy and over dramatic. The subtlety of Season 1 has been lost.

It’s been one episode. Let the season play out before we judge it so hard.

What are the overly judgmental people here watching anyways? It seems like the hate all the good shows.

The new Tales of the City on Netflix is better.

r77 Now that's just absurd. And I enjoyed that show a lot but... it's shot in a fucking studio, people. And that's just for starters.

I'm not hating on season two. I'm just trying to figure out why the experience of watching it felt so different. I'm definitely going to keep watching, and will have to let go of my attachment to what made season one so strong. It's a solid start, but there are significant aspects of what made the first season so striking that I miss. That's all.

Also, and I don't know if it's just me, but I never watched the show in the HEY GURLLL, YAAAASS, WIG SNATCHED fashion that I see on Twitter and Reddit... yeah, there were trappings of pulp and camp, but they were elevated by the rich character work, storytelling, and the deeper themes of domestic abuse. It was a quiet, simmering, moody show that took its time to become what it was.

I just hope the second season doesn't feel like a superficial skim across the surface is all.

let's face it, if you have HBO, you'll be watching. IF not, you won't. Simple.

It feels different cause it is different.

Season one was an adaptation. This one isn’t.

Tales is a mess. I dont even know if I will finish watching it and one episode has full frontal nudity. Still not in a hurry to watch.

Each actress is nailing their character. I don't remember seeing anything quite like this. I guess it means a great director? But wow!

[quote]yeah, there were trappings of pulp and camp, but they were elevated by the rich character work, storytelling, and the deeper themes of domestic abuse. It was a quiet, simmering, moody show that took its time to become what it was.

r79 The two are not mutually exclusive. I enjoy both aspects equally; I like to point out the fiercer ones during the live-watch and then the deeper ones in the post-show discussion.

Say what you want about Reese's acting, but her shell-shocked reactions first when Meryl called her a little person and then vapid while apologising to her were note-perfect.

Why would Reese not take this part? She is the one that made this series happen.

Does Madeline’s husband know about her affair ?

[quote] Why would you have watched this episode if you believe one season is enough?

Duh. I watched this new episode and realized it SUCKED, then I came to the opinion that one season was more than enough. This wasn't some great show anyway. It was basically a Lifetime Network program with high production values

How the fuck stupid are you?

Anyone know where you can stream this for free?

Make sure you have an up to date antivirus /firewall etc on your computer

Did you catch Renata implying that black detective was a lesbian/bisexual? Wonder if that'll come into play in some way later on.

Maybe Renata is a homophobe

Ugh, here comes another Emmy for Meryl.

r91 Doubt it. She was just giddy because the gossip was so salacious.

[quote] What are the overly judgmental people here watching anyways?

“Anyways”?

Idiot. How dare you judge others.

The first season was guilty pleasure real estate porn & you know it.

HBO released The Scream from last night's episode

Everyone's talking about that scream, and yeah it's a big moment, but the bit right after's the best part. "Don't you feel angry?" Mary Louise asks, and Celeste legitimately doesn't know how to respond, prompting the follow up question, "You don't?" Love her deliver there, as if the outburst had, itself, been a test to see whether her daughter-in-law even cared.

Meryl's ACTING with a capital A again. There isn't a believable moment in that clip at R96.

r97 I've got a sneaking suspicion that just about everything Mary Louise does is carefully calculated. Her mission is to find and punish her son's killer and everything else - even seemingly spontaneous speeches - is aligned with that purpose.

r98 Couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Oh please. Have Debra Winger or Sissy Spacek do that scene. And they wouldn't need the bad wig and corn kernel teeth.

She's doing an impression. That's not acting.

Honestly, this is just how Meryl acts now. I guess it's a good thing she's in this season, because I don't think she would have fit the tone of the first one.

I hate to burst everyone's "Meryl's getting an Emmy" bubble. She's not getting an Emmy for this, and she won't even be nominated.

Eligibility June 1, 2018 - May 31, 2019 Eligibility period for Emmy entries (please refer to the "hanging episodes" rule)

She is completely lost in the role. She's neither acting nor doing an impression, because there IS no Meryl there to act or do an impression. There's only the character.

*submerged rather, not lost, so you bitches won't pounce on me with a zinger

r102 Of course she's getting it, it'll just take a year longer, that's all.

R102, of course she's getting an emmy for this role. She's just going to be competing in the 2020 emmys, not this years ceremony.

I can't wait for the 2020 emmys. Big Little Lies vs The Crown. Kidman vs Witherspoon vs Olivia Colman vs Regina King vs Elisabeth Moss vs Octavia Spencer vs maybe Sarah Paulson (if Ratched is released in time). And Meryl vs Dern vs Woodley vs Helena Bonham Carter vs Thandie Newton vs Ann Dowd vs Holly Hunter (for Succession). It's going to be a BLOODBATH.

Lord, I see they're going to ruin another series/movie with the Marvel treatment. "Let's see who can get the funnier lines and let's see who has the best delivery of said lines."

The humour was subtle last season. But I guess each actor is more focused on getting talked about or getting the desired likes/memes.

When is this trend going to die?

r106 Holy bloodbath! We're all going to be traumatised and just rocking back and forth by the time that ceremony is over.

R107 That's exactly what I hope doesn't happen as the season continues. I can't say anything definitive yet as we've only seen one episode, but at the moment I'm somewhat worried. I respect that meme culture has the potential to strengthen the audience's relationship with the show, but if the show is written to cater to that culture then we're in for a lesser product.

I think Joseph's wife will somehow be recruited by Mary Louise into getting revenge on the women.

As has been pointed out before, there's space for both memes and in-depth discussion. And no, this show isn't suddenly going to turn into Drag Race.

YAAASS, MERYLLLL SLAY HUNTY!!!!!

They're pulling this one out of their asses. The first series was supposed to be the only series, it covered the entire book. I hope they're able to whip up something like the same magic again.

[quote]Did you catch Renata implying that black detective was a lesbian/bisexual? Wonder if that'll come into play in some way later on.

I wouldn't be surprised if it does. I'm guessing the detective is married to a guy and fucks women on the side. The women could blackmail her with info. The cops will probably find out that Renata and Bonnie weren't friends with Celeste, Madeline, and Jane before the Trivia Night Tragedy.

I'm guessing Mary Louise will or has hired a private investigator.

Memes single-handedly saved Bullock from her first Netflix movie being a complete disaster. Like it or not, they bring in additional (largely younger) viewership. It's just the way marketing is done these days.

-In the promos for the upcoming episodes Meryl does find out that Celeste was planning to leave Perry. She could have hired a PI to dig up stuff or she does her own digging around finds something that shows Celeste was planning to rent that apartment.

-Joseph's wife will probably start following Madeline around and maybe she accidentally finds out the lie.

-I could maybe see Madeline accidentally revealing things in front of her real estate clients. I think the home showing scene in the premiere was foreshadowing that she'll fuck up later on.

Is this anything like Andrea Arnold's film work? I love her films, so I don't want to watch something subpar from her.

Renata's comment about the detective possibly being gay was done for laughs. It felt completely out of place in the middle of a serious conversation. But hey, can't let Reese have all the funny lines!

It's fucking stupid. The show had the perfect balance of humor and seriousness last season. Now it's just dumb. So Madeline's ex-husband is really going to end a conversation with Ed by stomping off like a child, screaming "Snide Fuck!" out loud? In a community where image is everything? And the jilted wife in the grocery store bizarrely announcing her boob job to a man she rarely knows? What's next, adding Sandra Oh and her cutesy humor?

The meme might have helped to make Bullock's movie a hit, but Netflix actually put out a good movie. Not an hour and a half of actors trying to one up each other with jokes.

Birdbox is not a good movie.

It's by no means a masterpiece. But it was different. To each his own.

I thought the younger girl was over the rape? Why would she try to provoke Celeste by reminding her that she tried to fuck her husband?

So far, I'm merely whelmed. But I'll certainly watch every episode.

How strange it is that Meryl is one of the very best in the world at....playing pretend.

That scream was weird. Think she improvised that?

The scream was too “acting”. I get the drama. But an uptight WASPy woman wouldn’t do that. It’s such a cheap trick for drama.

Was it before or after the scream that she started talking about her son in that Manchurian candidate-type of way?

It was before.

I'm confused. Did it get out that Perry was beating Celeste when he "fell?"

Desperate Housewives without the humor.

[quote]I'm confused. Did it get out that Perry was beating Celeste when he "fell?"

Nope. At the end of the book I've been told that Bonnie tells the cops what happened and just has to do community service. The drama this season seems manufactured. Someone up above said that they'd blackmail the detective and I'm just thinking that that'd be the most ridiculous way this season would go.

Andrea Arnold is ten times the director that Valee is, but her tone is VERY DIFFERENT from his so we'll have to see if she tries to mesh her style with his or if she goes full her. I think it'll mess with people's expectations some though, as can already be seen in these reactions -- it's not that the cinematography is lesser, it's just that AA is less dreamy, more of a realist, and shoots the world less like an architectural magazine. I'm curious to see what Arnold does with such wealthy characters actually since her films are mostly about poverty

Celeste is sad because she misses fucking/being raped by her husband. She can't discuss this deprivation with her friends or her therapist because that makes her look as sick as he was.

Have feminists and SJWs discussed Perry and Celeste's S&M relationship at length and I've simply missed it? I was shocked to see a modern show depict the eventual pleasure a woman experiences before, during, and after rape and beatings.

It is, indeed, discovered in the book that Celeste was being abused. Renata or Bonnie yells at Perry that isn't the first time he's hit Celeste.

Celeste didn't see it as rape. To this sick couple, it was just very rough sex ignited by their heated exchanges. Even Madeline called it hot.

Did Perry see it as rape or abuse? He seemed to feel guilt afterwards. Celeste is wondering who else is gonna fuck me like that? She realizes her life ahead is full of white bread sex and she was just as dirty as her dead husband.

Perry would feel guilt for what happened before the sex. He would usually physically abuse her prior to the fucking. I'm sure he also felt guilt for all those other women he raped or fucked. (He admits to other affairs in the book saying they meant nothing.)

Thanks, R130. I'm curious about Arnold in the context of high concept cable TV work, which is unlike what she normally does. I'd give it a look, but I gave up HBO subscription a couple of months ago.

Laura Dern looks amazing

Meryl is chewing the scenery for her Emmy reel

Mary Louise probably knows that her precious Perry did awful things to women. Like maybe he started raping women as a teenager and she knew and helped him cover up his crimes.

The author of the book wrote a 200 page novella for season 2. She named the character Mary Louise (Meryl's legal name) because that was her dream casting

I enjoyed Laura Dean last night more than anyone else.

Shailene Woodley is blah as an actress and she looks like she’s pumped full of steroids. I hate her bloated face.

TEA!

It may be a little time before I win my fourth Oscar with all these nubile bitches in the way. But it’s gonna happen! Meanwhile I took this easy part in BLL which people take me scream as something more profound. That fourth Emmy is in the bag darlings!

That scream was de trop.

It was, as they say, a choice.

Nothing tops Dern's, "I SAID THANK YOUUUUUUUU!!!!!!" Meryl didn't even come close.

[quote]Vallée doing his memory thing, nice!

It’s durected by Andrea Arnold

r147 Yes, I took it back at r34. Read the thread, bitch!

Mary Louise is the mother that makes the monster. She reminds me of all the brittle liberal north eastern ladies that wear hammered metal earrings from the museum gift shop. Terrifying.

Celeste never would have been so careless to not tell the realtor that she was escaping an abuser and needed the apartment to be kept a secret.

Slate.com concentrates on a very small detail of Streep's performance and then decides she's a great actress-

[quote] Mary Louise goes on reading Madeline, who strikes her as a “wanter,” the type of person who is never satisfied. Madeline—who certainly is a wanter, and probably knows it—gets defensive. “You don’t have to take it personally,” Mary Louise replies, and swiftly wipes beneath her glasses, almost where the nose pads rest. “I’m a wanter myself.” The gesture is so naturalistic, but so uncommon—actresses do not often fidget with their faces on screen—that it stood out to me. Streep so fully embodies Mary Louise that she can be in her head and her body at the same time, talking and scratching like a real person.

[quote] But Streep is one of the few actresses about whom you can safely assume her every intonation, her every move is a choice, and likely her choice, however informed by a director, writer, or editor. There’s verisimilitude to her touching her face, but there’s more too. When she says, “I’m a wanter myself. I want my son back” she isn’t just making any old gesture: she’s reaching for where the tears usually are. Just as she’s about to mention her dead son, she instinctively tries to wipe them way. God damn, Meryl Streep is a great actress.

Jesus Christ.

r150 Yeah... I think she's a great actress (perhaps the best living) and is tremendous in this role, but that fidgeting is pure Meryl and we've seen it countless times before. Of course that shit is incredibly hard to do while delivering your lines but that on its own does not a great actor make. It's just one of the skills you pick up and master, especially if you've had a long career.

The author of that piece must not be that familiar with her previous work.

The author of the piece had a word count.

The genius of it all!

r154 And just as the wave in the background comes crashing in as well. Positively transcendent!

That Meryl. Always giving a 1,000 %.

R156 Thanks. I am really great, aren’t I?

R157 same shit. Different tv show or movie.

Jealousy is never a good look

[bold]Big Little Lies Season 2 Production Designer John Paino Gives Us A Peek Into His Design Process[/bold]

Laughing at Mary-Louise's new place; of course the fireplace shelf just has photos of her darling son at various ages. Though clock the first photo on the left - is that a sibling I spy? Looks like a sister?!

Seems like a mix of yellows and (deep) blues. Wonder what that might mean.

The books on the table are "A Light in the Attic" - the collection of poems by Shel Silverstein, and "Monterey & Carmel", which is a handbook for travelers, signifying she is an outsider. Huge war chest in front of the TV, meaning she is focused on revenge above all.

You guys, she has two exact same shirtless photos of her adult son, one of which is just a zoomed-in and rotated version of the other. RED FLAG. I think there might be some child molestation history there.

Yellow roses symbolise friendship, right? So we might yet be surprised by Mary-Louise before the season is over.

I just binge watched all of season 1 and the first episode of season 2. Some observations:

--did a quick google satellite look up of Monterey and there are very few houses right on the beach. Even the ones that are full on ocean front have a road between the house and the ocean. Yet every single character on this show, even the ones who aren't all that rich, has a multi million dollar home just steps from the sand. Where is it filmed?

--Nicole Kidman is not at all believable as an S & M sex addict. She has as much sex appeal as stale white bread.

--Zoey's character would never be married to someone like the husband they paired her with. He's such a douche-bro. She would be with an artist-rebel-dreamer.

--First day of school scene and continued shaming/shunning of Ziggy was way to OTT. No teacher or principle would act as they did with zero evidence.

--Celeste's therapist played Calamity Jane in Deadwood. She cleans up well. LOL.

--Shailene is not attractive at all in this. WTF happened to her? She used to be gorgeous as a teenager. Now her face is all puffy and bloated. And the hair does her no favors either. Yuck. No way would her character be immediately accepted by these rich, snobby women . They would aggressively shun someone like her.

--Celeste set up a fund for Ziggy to get regular checks from his dead father's estate? Really? And the police have no leads to go on {{snort}}. There are SO many glaring holes in this stupid cover up it's laughable. First of all, how is it possible that no one else at a fucking outdoor party witnessed an extended Walmart level, wig snatching brawl between a man and five shrieking women? No one filmed it in 2019? Yeah, okay.

--Meryl is a Godess.

[quote] Yuck. No way would her character be immediately accepted by these rich, snobby women

I agree - they were so instantly in love with this soured-faced cunt.

[quote]Yuck. No way would her character be immediately accepted by these rich, snobby women

I read that more as quick charity work rather than proper acceptance, at least at first. Those bitches won't miss an opportunity to feel superior and patronising. And Madeleine got a little sidekick out of it. I mean, who else is going to willingly hang out with her? Also, she might have seen a little bit of herself in Shailene.

[quote]There are SO many glaring holes in this stupid cover up it's laughable.

I think that's intentional, so that detective (and Mary-Louise) can slowly get closer to the truth by poking at those holes.

[quote]First of all, how is it possible that no one else at a fucking outdoor party witnessed an extended Walmart level, wig snatching brawl between a man and five shrieking women?

To be fair, it was on the other side of the complex in the middle of the night. It's not unbelievable to think no one would be there. And I think the entire brawl took half a minute, if that. Agree with the rest of your points, especially that last one!

[quote]Celeste set up a fund for Ziggy to get regular checks from his dead father's estate? Really?

I thought that was sort of weird. But, I guess she feels bad that Ziggy is a rape baby. Mary Louise is bound to find out about the checks and we all know that won't turn out good for Ziggy and Jane.

^^Why does Mary Louise have to solve the case? Aren't there any detectives in Monterey who have two brain cells to rub together? Yeesh, a child could connect the dots.

The female detective wasn't buying the story by all five woman and she was spying at them at the end of season 1. But, yeah the detectives are useless for the most part.

Why would you investigate when all five witnesses claim it was an accident? That detective must have some strong leads [italic]right now[/italic] to demonstrate to her boss that this case is worth pursuing further.

I recall after season 1 people who had read the book were upset that Bonnie's backstory of having an abusive father wasn't explained as the reason why she snapped and push Simon after seeing him fighting with the other women in the show.

Bonnie's parents are going to pop in season 2 and some articles seem to hint that the show is making Bonnie's mother the abuser instead of the father.

This show seems very inferior to the first season's show.

I hate the teen daughter.

& I hate the retro pop music - it doesn't fit.

It’s always interesting when a so-so book is adapted into a movie or series with higher aspirations than the original source.

[quote]I hate the retro pop music - it doesn't fit.

Me too. And the kids being so into it is really odd. What little kid in 2019 does Temptations dance moves and sings "White Rabbit" at the top of his lungs.

Precocious kids are always the worst. A six year-old making mixtapes and being into sophisticated adult music doesn't happen and isn't cute, sorry. Vallée has impeccable taste but was blinded by his heteroness in this instance. Or maybe it was David E. Kelley to blame.

A show starring acclaimed actresses of a certain age and no Mrs. E Kelley??? FOR SHAME

I’m baffled by the predicament they are in. Celeste was leaving perry because he would beat her up. She decides to leave him and he beats her at the party. The women rush to defend her and in the struggle he falls down the stairs. Why the secrets? Also give Woodley’s kid a dna test to show that Perry raped her too. Why are these women all so scared and secretive? It doesn’t make sense. Am I totally missing something ??

R177, they’re in a soap opera and behaving as such.

No mention of the aquarium surfer guy?

R179, I need him to peel his wetsuit off. Slowly.

r179 I was thinking about bringing him up several times but I keep going back and forth - he's handsome but he also looks like a lesbian. And he's straight so... who cares.

R164 - Filming is split between Monterey and LA. Jane's house is in Pasadena, Madeline and Renata's are in Malibu. Madeline's was used on Models Inc. Celeste's house and safe apartment are in Monterey. The apartment appears to be the same place as Jane's new apartment this season.

There are definitely aspects of the first season that are heightened and a little ridiculous, but I think that Vallee's tonal control kept even the more outlandish/unrealistic aspects of the show grounded. That pulpy quality was what made it fun to watch. The drama between Kidman and Skarsgard was the heart and meat of the show, and I found her completely believable in the role... more believable and compelling than I've found her in some time.

The criminal aspect of the story, the murder and the cover up, weren't really the best parts of season one. The best parts of season one were watching these characters interact and navigate their petty, tony little worlds. In fact, the big little lie might have been the least interesting part of the show because we, the audience, know that these women are justified. That's the issue with the second season... it has to build off of the weakest part of the first. It has to weave drama out of a situation that, inherently, isn't dramatic anymore.

Kidman’s face is all beat up in the police interviews post party. Had no one mentioned this? I’m so confused as to why these women feel they have to lie or hide anything

r184 I don't know how it is in that particular jurisdiction but where I'm from, you can definitely land in prison if you kill someone while defending yourself.

R185, even rich white women?

Well, everyone's white here but yes, [italic]especially[/italic] rich women.

I wish the "lie" they were having to protect were something where they were actually guilty of something. They came to the defense of their friend who was being beaten by Perry at a party after he found out she was leaving him for his physical abuse. Hell, he even punched a few of the other women besides Celeste. He was kicking Celeste. He raped Woodley and that could be proven by a dna test of her son. Sure, in the melee, he fell down the stairs. Simple. They have such a strong case. Instead they decided to lie and not even mention he had been physically attacking them at a party??? So weird.

I'd be more invested if they had decided to hurt Perry and accidentally killed him or something. But this whole secret is about self defense. No stakes.

Celeste used to work as a lawyer so maybe she had worries about the police not believing them and there could have been fear even among the four vapid rich white women that Bonnie would easily end up in prison even though Perry attacked them and Bonnie was defending them.

R184 IIRC, the cops mentioned Celeste's face on the other side of the mirror.

thanks r191. Hopefully this means some of the truth will come out that is overwhelmingly on the side of these women.

I haven't read the book. I read an synopsis that said at the end Celeste went public with her battered wife story and became some kind of domestic violence advocate. The show creators probably don't want go down that route.

I'm thinking they could, but they'll draw it out over the course of these seven episodes.

I watch it and enjoy it, but it’s not the high art some critics and viewers claim it to be.

If we saw these plot holes/flaws on Y&R, we’d all be screaming about how bad it is.

Renata seems absolutely thrilled to be in the inner circle. She acts like the Perry's death is the best thing that ever happened to her social life. Laura Dern plays her so hilarious and fierce.

Madeline isn't a wanter. She's a taker. She takes charge without any care of the consequences including what it means for her friends (and Bonnie) and family (her daughter just being a rebel brat).

Marie Louise is like a modern day Miss Marple. Everything seems to be calculated to find out what happened to her beloved son. She manipulates, and tricks, the women to reveal something, anything, to find out the truth. Clearly she insulted Madeline to make her slip up and say something to her to get her closer to the truth. That look on her face after she screamed and her daughter-in-law didn't seem to share her anger and frustration. She is connecting dots.

Bonnie tells Madeline off that she can't talk to anyone (including her own family) about what happened and yet she doesn't bother to show up to the group's clandestine meeting to do exactly that, talking about what happened. She may have helped Celeste and the others, but she doesn't exactly like them.

LOVED the brief encounter between Ed and Nathan. Snide Fuck LOL!

r181 I remember him from Big Love, at first I thought he was a teenager

I don't think the surfer co-worker's all that cute... certainly not ugly, but it'd've been nice to get some hotter eye candy. He seems like he might be devious though.

Yeah I think he may have ulterior motives.

What happened to the cute cafe owner and Jane? He finally asked her out at the end of season 1 and she said, "oh, you're straight?"

Broke up off-screen, probably. The new director decided to go with a new café. The old one was used because Vallée was an acquaintance of the actual owner. Besides, it would be awkward for her to still go there if it didn't work out with the guy.

I agree with R183 and R188. The most interesting aspect of the first season was the relationship dynamic between Celeste and her creepy BPD husband. I don't think Kidman has the right "look" of someone that most straight men would be sexually obsessed with (not sexy, too bony/scrawny, too old). But her acting was superb, especially in the scenes with her therapist. I think they played this brilliantly to show that abuse isn't always so black and white. That the victim can play a role in enabling it and even enjoying certain aspects of it. Nicole's facial expressions, awkwardness, nervousness, defiance, defensiveness, and excuses all felt very real to me.

Reese Witherspoon and James Tupper are my MVPs.

Meryl Streeps reminds me of the Frances Conroy character in Six Feet Under.

UGH, could they add more assholes to this cast? I stay away from ANYTHING when the majority of actors are Oscar winners. It inevitably turns into who chews the most scenery and there won't be any left with Ms. Pacman Streep.

I wish they would add Bonnie's race as a factor in the women's decision making, because that would make sense and add some stakes, and it's weird that they avoid the subject -- she's like the only POC in the entire town. Andrea Arnold has shown a deft hand exploring race and class in her films though so hopefully she gets it. (David E Kelley, I'm not so sure.)

Critics who've seen more than just the pilot have said that Bonnie's mother eventually comes to visit and they bring up the issue of race, so thankfully that'll be explored.

Please tell me it's not Lisa Bonet.

Madeline is ultimate frau. I'm surprised so many here watch the show. I figured it'd be a trigger.

When I think of a frau I think of the banality of live, laugh, love, sweaters, mug cradling, donut walls, and gender reveals. Madeline's not boring enough to be that type of frau. Reese is actually clever in that way. Everything about her screams frau, but she takes complex roles that kind of subvert that image.

So did Mary Louise hire the surfer boy/aquarium guy to get intel?

Madeline has too much of an irreverent humor to be a frau.

The way to she says lines like "it's gonna be a day" and "i didn't like that" are totally frau

[quote] So did Mary Louise hire the surfer boy/aquarium guy to get intel?

I think the surfer dude casually mentioning that people gossip about these women is supposed to hint that Marie Louise is aware of that gossip and she is suspicious of her daughter-in-law and her friends.

I mean she seems so close by whenever Celeste wakes up from a nightmare that I almost expect Marie Louise to sit by her side and take notes of whatever Celeste says while she's sleeping.

R208 lol it's not. The mother will be played by Crystal R. Fox who played that female deputy on In the Heat of the Night back in the 90s and she is also in The Haves and the Have Nots on OWN.

Martin Donovan is playing Bonnie's father. I think maybe the show will touch on the issues of being biracial in addition to the overall race factor. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets mentioned that Bonnie dealt with rejection by black people due to her being biracial.

Exactly R214. If I were Celeste, my bedroom door would be locked after the first time that old bat walked in on me.

"Rape? You said something about rape?" - Mary-Louise, making a quick note on her mental conspiracy wall.

She's going to Miss Marple the shit out of this case.

They didn't even give Jane and The Hobbit a chance at love?

No comments on the embarrassing school song Otter Bay? Snort, snort.

I don't trust Jane's autistic surfer colleague at all.

And Ed. I loathe him.

The school song was goofy, but everyone seemed to think so.

The surfer seemed to be intentionally toying with her. Warms up to her by teaching her kids about poisonous animals, then asks her if she's on the spectrum, then lets her know he knows about the rumors. It's like he enjoyed putting her in comfortable situations. I assume this'll be followed up on.

I like Ed, but that might be because I love Adam Scott. I hope he's given some worthwhile business this season.

I also hate Ed. Adam Scott sucks at drama shows. I have the bad feeling that Ed will find out the secret.

I want to see some Alexander Skarsgard ghost peen.

Apart from Askars and the lady leads (and obviously Meryl and Weigert), I feel like this show isn't cast that well. I bet Nina Gold would've done a better job than David Rubin.

James Tupper, in particular, is just not doing it for me at all. Some of his reaction shots in the second season premiere were abysmal. Soap opera level stuff, truly. But perhaps these shitty actors are there to make the main talent pop more and not overshadow them? Money (or lack thereof) played a part as well, I'm sure.

Adam Scott has some distracting wrinkles/scar under his left eye. It was really noticeable during the snide fuck scene.

r224 are you kidding? Rubin is one of the best. The only actors who suck on this show were the talking heads in the first season

That was a short episode.

So Meryl's character says she is a great judge of character but she didn't know her sweet Perry was an abusive psycho?

cunt

R227 I think that's the point. She probably did.

After watching season 2's, first episode, I think one season was more than enough

It’s funny how Meryl is always right there when Nicole wakes up from a shattering nightmare to quote back to her exactly what she said! What, is she always hanging around her bedroom door all night, taking notes? Why doesn’t Nicole tell her to respect her privacy and stop coming into her bedroom?

The “grief scream” was pretty cringe as well - it’s like, Grandma: Want me to show off?

Nicole’s shrug when asked if she’s glad Perry is dead signposts even more melodrama to come. I can’t believe they reduced her character to that.

I liked Shay’s dancing. But apparently that kind of thing attracts a lot of attention! What a ridiculous line.

Reese Witherspoon makes this show.

Adam Scott once again with great hair. If only he had the acting talent to match. But I do always love his hair.

I just realised that Mary-Louise asked "So, who are we planning to kill?" not out of nowhere, but in direct response to Celeste screaming "I'll fucking kill you!" as she woke up from her nightmare. Gosh but I can be so thick sometimes.

Just under the buzzer, Rose.

R230, Who is Shay?

Shailene Woodley.

R232, I didn't hear the set up line either.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

I'm alone.

Marry me.

Meryl reminds me of her Osage County character here, which is not good.. Hate Shailene’s bangs.

The sea motifs were present in the first season already, but they're leaning into them even more this time around, what with the parallels to the sea creatures at the aquarium. On a related note, this scene was perhaps my favourite of the episode - Shailene as a sea witch of sorts, dressed in turquoise and lost in ecstatic dance while listening to Sufjan's pagan song. I just love how they started with her reflection in the wet sand, as if she were dancing underwater and in the skies at the same time.

I intended this thread to be full by the time the next episode rolled around when I created it, by the way. That it is still not is verging on homophobia.

r236 Fuck it, let's just do it!

The new café also makes them look more coven-y than before.

r237 The show itself is aware how bad her bangs are and now I'm convinced they'll become a plot point later on. Perhaps some shade fodder for Mary-Louise?

So the aquarium scene where they talk about the female sea creature that kills and eats it mate wasn’t too obvious

Laura Dern is amazing. The end.

I still miss Enlightened :/

r241 She really is. I didn't get her performance on that show for the longest time, but then it just clicked one day and I understood completely what she was going for. It's just crazy to me how she managed to portray that instantly enlightened New Age type of person to a tee.

r240 Yeah, they're overdoing it a bit in that regard. Of course we'd all prefer if that were done more subtly.

Zoe Kravitz is a non-actor with a “look” and that’s it. She has zero depth and zero charm. It will be interesting to see how the director works around that when it’s crunch time.

Zoe Kravitz trying to convey anguish instead looks like a dog who got caught eating out of the litter box in one of those “shaming” photos.

Zoe Kavitz's character was deliberately underwritten in the first series to disguise the possibility that she would be the killer. In the book, Bonnie had a backstory. Apparently it will unfold over the next few episodes. I'm willing to give her a chance.

Anybody remember how they felt first time around after seeing only the first episode? I felt it was an uneven mix of comedy, camp and pathos and I would only continue to watch because of Reese. (and the fact I don't have anything better to do). Pretty much how I felt about this episode.

By the third episode, I was riveted and couldn't wait for each next chapter. Give it time.

[quote]Anybody remember how they felt first time around after seeing only the first episode?

I thought it felt like a tedious (rich white) frau story, with the smallest problems blown completely out of proportion, and unapproachable for anyone without kids. But then Shailene's arc hooked me almost immediately. Such is the power of the "outsider harbouring a secret" trope.

Well it looks like it won’t be a secret for long. Previews suggest Jane is going to tell Ziggy who his father was and that he is half brother to the twins.

Jon fangurling over this show on the latest Lovett or Leave It was too cute. That's exactly how I feel about this show - not convinced it needed a second season but now I'm all in. They need to pull similar shit with Sharp Objects as well. Just cast Glenn in some role and give us more.

[quote]Anybody remember how they felt first time around after seeing only the first episode?

I do. I was struck by the filmmaking first and foremost. Perfect use of mood and setting. The music was also intoxicating. I loved all the performers at the time, and still do... especially Laura Dern. Desperate Housewives was a big guilty pleasure for me growing up, so this was like watching a sophisticated version of that show. I love watching dystopian domesticity.

Anyone cradling mugs of iced tea?

r251 Are you asking about the characters on the show or those of us who watch it? Because yes if so.

r103 to the contrary I think what we are seeing is the real Meryl Streep. I have always seen a major cunt lurking just beneath her surface. It's one of the reasons I don't enjoy watching her, because she seems so fake unless she's playing someone reprehensible.

Streep made a very smart move avoiding playing villainesses in dramatic films for the majority of her first thirty years onscreen. Yes, she played a murderess in Still of the Night (originally called Stab) but that film was a quick flop which very few people saw She player comic villainesses in Death Becomes Her and She-Devil but not dramatic ones.. She really didn’t play an all-out villainess in a major film until The Manchurian Candidate. Glenn Close played villainess roles that Meryl could have played but chose not to, such as the lead in Dangerous Liaisons.

No r182 Jane's apartment in season 2 ep 1 is in Monterey.

The exterior of Celeste's house and every room except the boy's rooms and the master bedroom/bath/closet is on stage in LA.

R255, the exterior of Celeste's House is at 40 Yankee Point Drive in Carmel. Her safe apartment and Jane's new season 2 apartment are at 1 Surf Way in Monterey.

Streep could not have pulled off playing the same character in Dangerous Liaisons that Glenn did. She would have shit the bed on that one. It would have been like soap opera melodrama.

Quit talking about awful Glenn in this thread.

R256 So Jane moved into what would have been the safe apartment? I missed that detail, when did it happen?

Off screen.

It's just a regular apartment building but for Celeste is was like her safe house.

I wonder if it will turn out that Mary Louise was abused by her husband just like Perry abused Celeste. Or was Mary Louise the abuser?

r262 Agree, I think one of those scenarios is pretty much a given.

I think Mary Louise was the abuser. I don’t want to see her at the end of the season finale sitting pensively with Celeste, staring out at the water. I want her to rip shit up before she’s carted off to prison.

I still think the shirtless photos of him in her apartment I posted upthread are creepy and that there was something disturbing going on in their past.

I want Mary-Louise to throw herself off that bridge they keep showing us at the very end of the season.

I’d also want Celeste to murder Mary Louise. In a sense she’d be murdering Perry by proxy.

Wouldn't it be something if Mary Louise emasculated both her husband and her son and the only way they could cope is for the father killing himself and her son becoming a women hating sociopath?

Taylor Treadwell plays young Mary Louise.

r268 Ooh, so flashbacks confirmed!

[quote]I’d also want Celeste to murder Mary Louise. In a sense she’d be murdering Perry by proxy.

How fucking goofy would this be?

[quote]Wouldn't it be something if Mary Louise emasculated both her husband and her son and the only way they could cope is for the father killing himself and her son becoming a women hating sociopath?

I'm leaning towards this sort of scenario panning out.

The flashbacks of Young Mary Louise start in tonight's episode.

Imagine playing young Meryl in a flashback... Hoo, boy.

Glad the talking heads are gone but will all those actors be returning?

Doubt it as they're pretty interchangeable. Didn't they function more as a choir rather than as a set of individuals, anyway?

I think one of the talking head guys from last season was in the season premiere in one of the school scenes.

Renata is totally going to have an affair with that new black teacher, isn't she? Her lip syncing to Diana Ross was a clue, I think.

I guess hot Joseph has moved on and is no longer with now big boobed Tori.

Hot Joseph is filming the new Picard series for CBS right now.

I think Mary Louise will be enjoying giving the twins a bath a tad too much.

What, none of M’s children were available to play her in flashback? Is Hollywood nepotism dead?

R281 I guess HBO didn't want to give Grace more work after True Detective season 3.

Grace’s contract with Mr. Robot might preclude her being on another series, though.

Why would she sign such a contract for a show that's ending anyway?

My daughter is available. And so am I. Always. Please?

Mr. Robot shoots its final season until August.

R285 Go ask some basic cable network for another job Glennie.

Join us for the second episode in the thread below!