Why do people believe that astrology determines personality?

Astrology is stupid but harmless. I suppose many people use it as a substitute for therapy, the same way they use religion or sports or video gaming.

I lose respect for people who truly believe it. It’s a parlor game, kind of fun but not real.

I’m a Cancer which is supposed to be the weepy Willy sign. Very sensitive and clingy. I’m not. But true believers will say something like “it’s because of the other factors, like your moon rising.” That’s ridiculous, if there are so many caveats, then what’s the point?

Go to Google, type birth chart calculator, put in your location, time, and date of birth and read it.

Come back and leave a comment here please.

R2 that's sort of like Pooh poohing Mathematics as bullshit because you don't like calculus and trigonometry. You may not understand how it works, but there are experts who do.

The general horoscopes in newspapers etc are essentially useless, it's astrology packaged as entertainment. True astrology looks at a lot more planets and stars than your Sun sign.

It's a macrocosmic way of looking at the microcosm.

OP you are undoubtedly a Virgo!

R2 because astrology depends on much more than your birth month. You need the birth time, date and location for it to make sense.

I have some skeptical belief in the zodiac. But nothing drives me CRAZIER than when people use it to justify unjustifiable behavior. “I know I’ve been a toxic, malicious asshole. That’s just the Capricorn in me!”

No, you just have a serious personality disorder.

Well, personally, I believe in astrology because I am a retard.

So how does the position of the planets affect personality?

I put astrology-believers in the same basket as flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers.

R9 it doesn't. It's a map.

Everyone should do their birth chart before shitting on astrology without any information.

[R12] I did it and it said I’m good at everything but excel at nothing. That’s actually true.

It said I'm a Lesbian.

R12, many years ago, a next-door neighbor did my birth chart on his computer. All I learned was that he thought it was a groovy way to try to get into my pants. It was about 30% accurate.

It depends a lot on the interpretation as well. Many modern books on astrology are just some people's interpretation of the forces at play that may not be entirely accurate. You can't look at ancient interpretations with a 21st century mind, you need to understand the context.

I've heard people compare astrology to complex mathematics before. In any branch of mathematics, there is only one right answer to a calculation. If someone comes up with a different answer, any attentive high school student can show that the 'alternative' answer is just wrong. There is no leeway.

Nearly everyone knows their birth time, date and location, so why doesn't astrology determine everyone's personalities more accurately than tomorrow's weather forecast? If astrology were accurate, it seems that we ought to live in a very different world. We should have zero need for psych testing; people should be successful (or in prison) based on very predictable birth times. Dating services ought to be able to match you against someone by their desired personality so precisely that getting to know someone should be an extremely predictable process.

We don't live in that world.

R17 because most people don't believe in it and wouldn't even think about ever considering it seriously and are thus never informed.

Astrology is as sound as religion is.

R19 have you ever studied it?

R17 because astrology is predicting variable human behavior. It just tells you "these forces were present at the time this happened" and it gives you a map to what MAY happen in the future. But the future is also dependent on energies that are present at that time, so you are charting some incredibly complex scenarios. You can't get precision accuracy because it's a simplification of much larger and more massive forces at play.

There's more evidence for the existence of Osiris or Noah's Ark than there is for the legitimacy of astrology. Just because it's esoteric doesn't mean it's true,

R22 and have you studied it or analyzed your chart?

People need a way to excuse their failings or faults. Astrology does just that. "Oh, I'm vindictive. It's because I'm a Scorpio." No, you're vindictive because you're an asshole.

[R17] what do you mean by forces?

r23 have you undergone a Scientologist auditing session ?

R23, I've looked at my birth chart, and found it to be filled with vague statements that could apply to lots of people. Probably less that 1/4 of it was "accurate," and then only vaguely so. Taking a Big 5 personality test provides a counterexample that uses much more specific and recognizable descriptions of what an actual personality looks like. Compare the two summaries and you'll see that astrological birth charts are just fraudulent double-talk.

Just like a Scientology personality test... "You're lost soul, but Scientology can save you!"

It's just Christianity for cutters.

I don’t need to study the Koran to know that Islam is BS. Likewise, I don’t need to figure out whether Mercury was retrocranially inverted in Uranus at the moment of my birth to know that astrology, too, is total BS. No matter how many frauen and lonely, weak-minded gay simpletons declare otherwise.

I've done my birth chart. Some things are surprisingly correct (aspects of my personality I hadn't recognized until years later). Many things don't fit or contradict each other completely. I guess an explanation could be that personality can be a confusing mass of contradictions.

I don't buy a lot of it. A believer would say I don't understand it or don't know how to put it all together. This is true. I will say though that my Saturn return did line up very accurately for me astrologically both time line and house - wise (6th house, lost job, got another just as the return ended).

... and before you sun-sign astrologers shriek (again) about how we must all do our charts, please answer this:

How do you know that *your* chosen version of astrology is valid, and the hundreds of others dreamed up by people all over the world throughout history are not?

I'm a born skeptic when it comes to almost everything, but there is something to be said about the fact that astrology is often dismissed on the grounds of being a gimmicky newspaper horoscope thing, when it is in fact much, much more complicated than that. Knowing your sun sign (what people often refer to as their "star sign") is only the tip of the iceberg really. The predictive horoscopes people get based on their sun sign alone are about as un-specific as it can get; they're essentially useless. Doing your entire chart and evaluating how the supposed traits of each placement may/may not manifest in your personality is interesting. According to astrologers, the big three placements that influence the personality most are sun, moon, and rising.

I know someone who is very into astrology, and she interpreted my chart for me once. I'm a Cancer sun, Virgo moon, Libra rising. Most of she explained to me was surprisingly spot-on, but the thing is that astrologers' assessments of anyone's chart are just interpretations. Their interpretations of how the placements in your chart interact with one another might differ slightly from astrologer to astrologer.

I've actually written sun-sign columns and books. There is real astrology behind those things but the amount of generalisation I had to do is ridiculous and I can see why anyone not familiar with it would be skeptical.

But when I do horoscopes it is almost embarrassing how much information is revealed about that person. I guess it might seem weak in this day and age of data analysis and backwards social engineering. There are many forms of prophecy out there.

By the way, AG Bill Barr? Ruthless, stubborn, conceited...but he does have a weakness...according to his horoscope.

But who cares, it's all bullshit, right?

Nothing bothers me more on a message board than when a poster starts using someone's "sign" to try to characterize someone or explain their behavior. Your genes and your life experience (nurture and environment) determines your behavior. Take a person born January 1 1901 and another born January 1 2001, and you'll find at least a few things in common if you look hard enough. What a fucking waste of time.

[quote]All I learned was that he thought it was a groovy way to try to get into my pants. It was about 30% accurate.

So he got 30% of the way into your pants?

I'm a skeptic but that's typical of Aquarians.

Astrology was the original science before it split from religion. If you’d like to understand how it works, then use the concept of gravity. The moon pulls our ocean tides, but the moon is both relatively close and small; therefore it has an incredible weight on say, a human fetus comprised of 70% water that’s developing in the womb. The sun is equally as weighty just in a very different way, so to with the other planets. Astrology breaks the human psyche down into parts... that’s why you can’t follow sun signs alone.

OP is very obviously a Capricorn.

[quote]Why do people believe that astrology determines personality?

Because they are dim-witted tards!

R37-

Alchemy was the foundation that modern chemistry was built on before the scientific method was developed. Nowadays we can refine chemical elements like silicon to great degrees of purity, and build computers with components that can only be examined through a microscope. Modern advancements don't lend credence to old alchemical mainstays like turning lead into gold. Alchemy was a superstitious dead end, and was abandoned.

It's great that you tie astrology to gravity. Gravity is a very well understood force that we can calculate with such accuracy that we use it to slingshot space probes into specific orbits around outer planets like Neptune that are [bold]billions[/bold] of miles away.

Yet no one can use this "original science" to reliably state how exactly it "works," much less warn us that a newborn baby is going to be a mass murderer.

This doesn't add up.

I think it’s bullshit, but I still like making Scorpio jokes.

Sometimes it's fairly accurate. Especially comparing two signs and compatibility. But for the most part I think it's BS and I can't stand when people use it to make excuses for their bad personality or behavior.

I read all the astrological forecasts for all the signs. There's always something applicable to you in all of them. Try it.

I will say this much: I've never met a Sagittarius in my life who wasn't an adventurous, sociable flake with commitment issues.

Even if you grant that somehow the stars light years away from Earth do influence a person's personality, in the several thousand years since these particular characteristics were assigned the Earth and moon have shifted in orbit far enough the original calculations are now outdated and incorrect.

I've never heard any astrologer address this.

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Almost nobody was born under the sign they think they are, as the astrological calendar has failed to be updated as our position in relation to the stars has changed.

The constellations have drifted out by a whole month, it was revealed on the BBC’s Stargazing Live. Since the zodiac was created over 2,000 years ago, the wobbling effect of the Earth caused by the moon and the sun has meant that the stars that are above us have shifted.

If, for example, someone was born towards the end of January, they might think they were born under Aquarius. But in fact they’d have been born under Capricorn, Dr Radmilla Topalovic, an astronomer from the Royal Observatory at Greenwich pointed out on the programme.

When the zodiac was devised by the ancient Greeks, people were assigned star signs based on the constellation that was behind the sun at that time. But the constellations are now out by about a month.

The wobbling process is called precession — it has been likened to the Earth behaving like a spinning top — and takes about 26,000 years to happen.

That means that 86% of people are now living under the wrong sign, according to the BBC. Stargazing Live created an interactive graphic that allows people to work out what their star sign really is.

The programme also points out that there is a thirteenth star sign, describing a lesser-known one called Ophiuchus. It is thought that ancient astrologers perhaps left out the sign so that the 360-degree path of the sun could be divided into 12 neat parts, each of 30 degrees.

But the constellation, known as the serpent bearer, actually passes behind the sun between November 30 and December 18 — so while some people might have their star sign wrong, some people might be an entirely new one altogether.

R40 I’m not sure why you think alchemy is about literally transforming lead into gold, except perhaps because of ignorance - or why you even brought it up, because people still use this today too. You know, you’re not obligated to like astrology if you don’t want to. It’s just, people always bitch about not having a guidebook to life and then refuse to read through the personalized guidebook that astrology has been for thousands of years.... all the while disparaging it. And yet, some people spend their whole lives learning this skill.... while you can’t bother to skim it before deciding.

R25 said “It's just Christianity for cutters.”

Pithy and accurate and ducking hilarious.

The terribly complex (“you wouldn’t understand”) horoscope is similar to the Judeo-Christian concept of God’s omniscience and the illusion that we have “free will”.

So the Stars (God) ordain everything at birth; our personalities and behaviors and actions. We have no control over anything and must continually consult with ($$$) those who have that special knowledge?

Yeah, sounds like a familiar racket. Does my rising sign mark me as a skeptic?

[quote]You may not understand how it works, but there are experts who do.

Yes, we do, and no, there aren't. It's all made-up hooey. And ridiculously silly made-up hooey, at that.

[quote]But who cares, it's all bullshit, right?

Yup.

R48 given that you haven't read this thread and your idea of what astrology says is wrong, I'm guessing you have bigger issues than skepticism.

To the dumbfuck who keeps deriding non-believers, how about some 100% positive proof that astrology is 100% scientific and indisputable?

I’m still waiting for that non-Newtonian scientific explanation for gravity that we have “such a firm grasp of,” please make sure to dazzle AND razzle given the great breadth of your reserves!

When you’re born can affect your personality. Your mom was likely to be poorer if you were born at one time of year, at another she’d have gotten more vitamin D, at another point you’d have been born with a larger head for some reason. People born in August are least likely to have bipolar disorder. People born in summer are more likely to be near-sighted. There are environmental and/or biological reasons for all this stuff, however difficult to isolate.

Antivaxxers, flat-earthers, $cientologists, people who believe in this stuff.

[quote]I’m still waiting for that non-Newtonian scientific explanation for gravity that we have “such a firm grasp of,”

What are you going on about, R52? You make it sound like you've won some argument by default. Have you not heard of space probes visiting outer planets?

It sounds like you're saying that we do not actually understand gravity. Photographs of Pluto are evidence that we do have a pretty firm grasp of it.

Please, provide some real-world evidence of gravity's inescapable effect on everyone's personality, finalized at the moment of birth.

I’m sorry r55, but the correct answer should have begun by citing Einstein, not some unintelligible drivel about Plutonic space probes.

Since all of mainstream astrology is introspective, you probably won’t find a lot of people who want to discuss ALL of their birth chart outright, after they’ve heard it.

Rather than what most have suggested, to go and consult some random astrologer, which you’d probably sabotage on purpose anyways... why not look at an outside party’s chart with no personal investment to help decide.... maybe somebody really famous.... or rich.... or powerful.

Surely there’s a chart cast for somebody like that out there that should show the true diplomatic art that astrology is and the numerous hats that are required. Yes, coddling toddlers is included in the list..

R52- A lot of condescending words implying that I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about, but not single one of your own to explain why astrology is "real."

OK, here is Einstein for you:

January 7, 1943

Mr. Eugene Simon

c.o. Rabbi Herman Simon

184 East Willmore Ave. St.Paul, Minn.

Dear Sir:

I fully agree with you concerning the pseudo-science of astrology. The interesting point is that this kind of superstition is so tenacious that it could persist through so many centuries.

Very truly yours,

(Signed, 'A. Einstein')

Professor Albert Einstein.

[quote] I don’t need to figure out whether Mercury was retrocranially inverted in Uranus at the moment of my birth.

Oh, dear.

"The Secret Language of Birthdays" (mentioned in the DL thread linked below) is a fun book that contains a description for each day of year of the kind of person you are if you're born on that day. It's ridiculously accurate.

Does anyone know what happened to Astro Barry also known as Barry Walters? I know he stopped writing his column but what happened.

I would bet that R52 also believes the Earth is flat.

Because they're stupid, OP.

I've heard nothing here to persuade me otherwise.

R45 wins

Because they believe in magic, OP

R60 i would also like to know what happened to Astro Barry. Anybody know?

There's a lot to it, especially the physical characteristics of specific signs.

I usually don't read about astrology signs, but if I do meet people of a specific sign and they are very much alike, even physically, there has to be 'something' to this.

There are so many people born on one of the 365 days of the year, that you're bound to find many people who share a personality type born in the same period. There might be something tied to gravitational influence from space objects on fetal development but that seems hard to measure.

However, foods eaten by pregnant women can often be tied to seasonal availability and cultural traditions and I do think that has an impact on fetal development, so it's possible if a mother is eating lots of pumpkin pie, pumpkin spiced lattes and pumpkin breads and cookies in October and that's the 8th month of development for her baby, those foods at that time could have an impact on what personality is more likely to develop in that child. But that's just a hypothesis.