'The Handmaid's Tale' Season 3

Yesss........Best show ever.

This is how HBO should have released Game of Thrones, maybe 2+2+2 for the 6 episode season.

The first episode of the season was meh. I suspect Serena Joy will do other crazy shit this season.

The reviews are... not good. The showrunner is trying to redeem genuinely evil people? No thanks.

r4 Yup, that seems to be the last straw for some people.

Good Lord, the pacing is like molasses and there's no sense of momentum, no suspense.

This is a show that should have completely changed its storytelling the season, because June being tormented as a handmaid was all played out. But no, instead the writers wrote the most unbelievable plot twist they could muster and had her return to Gilead volunatarily. It's obvious from the first three episodes that the writers have no idea where they're going now.

Yeah the reviews for this season have not been great, I am still gonna gobble them up, but at least I am going in with lowered expectations.

This show just seems too depressing to watch.

I enjoyed the first 2 seasons despite how depressing they were but its disappointing that this latest season isnt that great and doesnt improve on itself.

This is still going on?

I don't understand really why the reviews are getting angry that we're supposed to be sympathetic to Serena.

It was explicitly stated in the original novel that Serena was unhappy. Yes, she'd been important in bringing about the regime but she was in no way happy with the reality of it. Offred is slightly, though not completely (obviously), sympathetic to the fact Serena has found herself as powerless and unhappy as other women.

I agree with R6. June being tormented as a handmaiden is indeed all played out. You could see the show slipping last year. She escapes! No wait, she's back. But she escapes again! No wait, she's back. Then she escapes with her baby! But she ends up back again, but this time it's her choice. They should have just concluded it last year with June escaping with the baby, and maybe showing Serena being executed for helping them escape.

I think either Fred or Serena will be executed before the end of series. After the third episode of this season, I wouldn't be surprised if a commander's wife kills Serena.

The about-face of Bradley Whitford's character makes no sense whatsoever. So last season he turned out to be a secret good guy who was willing to cover attempted murder by the handmaids and his risk his life to spirit them to safety, but this season June is complaining that he's "psycho"? After all the villains she's grappled with she bitches about him?

I used to enjoy this series, but the lack of consistency is glaring.

they obviously have no idea what to do since the original material was used in S1. and i have read the show runner would like to do TEN seasons of this. Bitch please, you were roba after ten episodes! and yes, the reviews are bad. even the critics have lost their patience with this show.

The writing quality this season, and June's consistency/likeability/my sympathy for the character has taken a nosedive. I liked S1 as I enjoyed the source material. S2 was promising initially, but it began to decline near the end. June probably shouldn't have abandoned her baby and instead, fought toward and worked from Canada to do what she could. Or else let Nick or Rita escape with Nicole, since June doesn't seem to care much and is playing favorites with her children. The show, overall, is not as tense and gripping IMO. The writing has become too contrived and transparent to keep June at the forefront. Despite Moss having won awards for her portrayal, a new handmaid as the main POV character would be more interesting now. Since tptb plan for this show to go on for a long time, it would make sense. Also, Moss can only squeeze out the same haggish, forced expressions so many times before they appear the same. She can't cry easily either. The show isn't what it used to be or could have been. Cinematography is still fantastic, and some of the supporting characters watchable.

first 3 episodes of S3: a snoozefest!

They could have done One episode from the first three. Snooze fest is right. (And I love this show)

Very little making sense now-I hope future episodes get better, because they wasted the first three episode on really nothing much at all

also, June shoul've been executed LOOOONG ago. she's basically immortal.

Yeah how does that one girl fairly quickly get blinded in one eye and shit all happens to June for all the crap she pulls. Not wishing it on her as a viewer but it doesnt make sense.

Episode 1 was terrible, mainly because we're forced to swallow so much implausible behavior. Throughout the series, people have been executed or lost hands, fingers, eyes, and tongues for virtually nothing. June, however, is just fine even after helping a handmaid and a baby escape. And the Waterfords - well - they had some trouble at home but 'bless the fruit!' According to the laws of Gilead (and the show itself) all three should be hanging from the wall.

Episode 2 was good, though. It was tense, exciting, and a return to the world they created so carefully in Season One. And I LOVED the sequence with Aunt Lydia.

Episode 3: another snoozer. Selena should have walked into the sea. I've loved her and the actress, but she should have remained unredeemed. She was the Cersei of Season One and now they're trying to make her Sansa. And I don't understand how June can make all of those 'I'm angry about that rotten egg smell' faces at the Commander all the time and get away with it. The pacing is too funereal with many of the dialogue sequences and the lighting is too consistently dim. And who cares about Nick? Ship him away forever. Also, three years after America became Gilead and everyone lives and talks like they're in an 1870s Bronte novel. Sipping tea by the fire is all-the-rage and no one wants to do anything else except maybe 'draw a hot bath.'

i agree about many things, but Gilead is older than 3 years. they are vague about timing but i think in S1 Gilead must ve been like 10 years old.

i hate how the writers know very well that all everybody want by now is the aunt Lydia flashback and yet they're taking their fucking sweet time about it.

It would have been MUCH more compelling and believable to have June make it to Canada, reunite with her husband and Moira and then decide as a group to to re-enter Gilead undercover to rescue their daughter, etc.

The show is now in endless, tedious loop. There's no reason whatsoever to have the Waterfords on anymore. The idea that June would feel any kinship whatever with the monstrous Serena is laughable. She wouldn't care at all about helping her.

And the poster who said that it's inconceivable that June would have escaped execution over and over again is spot-on. She's apparently indestructible now.

i would have locked Serena Joy in her burning bedroom. but you know...sisterhood. Like a jewish inmate would have felt sympathy for her nazi Guard. laughable.

Agree 100% r24

R21 nailed it (and gets 100 bonus points for use of the word "funereal"). Whether it is 3 years or 20 years after the inception of Gilead, why are people acting like the set of Downton Abbey?

My friend worked on seasons one and two as a junior level editor. The buzz during the second season was perhaps showing parallel lives/characters in other parts of Gilead. For example, somehow link to a character who lives in, say, Chicago or Atlanta or DC or somewhere (maybe an old friend of Offred's from childhood or college), in order to show the subtle variations in the world of Gilead.

Apparently the writers were hearing "enough of Boston, what's going on in Dallas or Philadelphia or something?" Also, they heard loud and clear that somehow the viewers need to see more on an organized resistance. Is there a "Joan of Arc" out there somewhere that somehow intertwines w Offred's arc?

Apparently, the writers balked at showing other cities in Gilead (as did Atwood) because (1) this is a story about Offred and (2) they thought showing different Gilead cities/characters felt too much like Hunger Games where each District was sort of profiled and each district had their own versions of Katniss. Perhaps a valid concern in issue #2 above but I would still like to see some view into the rest of the Gilead sociopolitical landscape.

i'm quite confused by the sociology aspect of this series. For exemple, in S2 we see June excape helped by a black baker who hides her in his home (he's married to a Martha and they have a kid). Now: can Marthas get married? I thought they lived in their masters' home and they were celibate. No, this Martha had a husband, a baby (so women who are not top class in Gilead can have and keep their babies?), and an apartment (which, despite being in some council estate for proletarians, was perfectly nice). The baker and his wife end up on the wall, but to me it seemed that this couple was relatively normal, not different from any lower middle class family in every democratic society. Can anyone explain?

R28, she wasn't a Martha. She was an Econowife, which is a lower-class married woman.

^ah ok, you're right. And that reminds me that the whole "econowife" thing has never been shown/explained well so far. it would add something interesting to this by far stale show.

Leaden pacing combined with telenovela screaming/plate-throwing is a really really bad combination.

Damn shame, because S.1 was gorgeous.

It's become Gilead Place. The showrunners may as well bring on Heather Locklear now.

Even S2 was good. Although the last episode “call her Nicole” was so ridiculous. The took a wrong turn and just kept going

Moss's repetitive expressions are irritating and overdone. Yvonne is a better actress. So far, this season seems out of focus. Critics that have watched through ep 6 imply the decline in storytelling and quality continues. Feels as if June's story is overplayed and she shouldn't be the focal point anymore. I found myself enjoying watching Emily. Canada, and even Serena more than June in her boring new posting. I understand it's part of June's burgeoning plan, but way too much time was taken up with all the sneaking around with random Marthas. We know June has mega plot armor still, so there was little risk to her. Though this series has always been a slow burn, I've enjoyed some of the past scenes due to the masterful creation of atmosphere and a simmering intensity. I rarely feel that in many of this season's scenes. Third year is when a lot of series begin to decline.

i enjoy every scene that doesnt feature Moss. she and the guy playing Nick are the worst actors of the whole cast. oh, i also cant stand Luke.

Just got done watching Chernobyl now watching this, I feel like a glutton for punishment with these depressing shows.

[quote]i agree about many things, but Gilead is older than 3 years. they are vague about timing but i think in S1 Gilead must ve been like 10 years old.

In season 1, there was an episode where they hosted some banquet in honor of the handmaids and then a group of children who had been carried by handmaids came out and some of them looked to be around 5-8 years old.

[quote]I found myself enjoying watching Emily. Canada, and even Serena more than June in her boring new posting.

I also liked the scenes with Emily and the other Canada stuff. Emily will be probably be my main reason for watching this season.

I'll make a few predictions for this season

-The US government guy from season 2 returns

-Crazy one eyed Janine gets knocked up by her new commander

-Fred somehow gets the Canadian government to give him custody of the baby

Season 1 was brilliant because it showed the destruction of America through flashback at a time in the real world where democracy was in a real crisis.

The mistake in season one was making Serena the person to come up with the idea to stage the attack to kill the president (during the movie theatre scene) Fred says they “are going with their plan” and Serena said “praise be.”

She couldn’t never be redeemed. They are trying to make her three dimensional, but because of HER choices, June’s mother was murdered, June’s daughter was stolen, Moira’s girlfriend was murdered, and Rita’s son was murdered in the war.

How does one forgive any of it?

i'm sure Serena will pay for her actions. i dont want to believe the writers are so dumb that they think she can be saved or redeemed. she needs to be executed for treason just like the Sons of Jacob.

Maybe Rita will eventually snap and kill Serena as part revenge for her son's death in the war.

The pacing of the storylines are a bit slow and last season I kept hoping that Canada/the remaining US government and allies would have invaded Gilead. Maybe, it it will be towards the end of this season. But, I won't get my hopes up.

[quote] Bitch please, you were roba after ten episodes!

What does "roba" mean? I don't understand your hip slang terms.

How do I get this show? Is Hulu on-demand? I only watch shows on my TV. I Despise the device/laptop trend.

Hulu is a streaming service, which you have to subscribe to. To watch it on your TV, you'll need to have a Roku or some way of streaming it/casting it there.

The previous seasons are available on DVD, if you're old school.

THE HANDMAID'S NAME IS NOW OFJOSEPH! YOU WILL RESPECT GILEAD'S BOUNDARIES.

Personally, I think Serena is far from redeemed and will emerge from her stubby-fingered recovery harder and meaner than ever.

r42, no idea of what roba means. it was the fucking autocorrect thing

I understand some of the criticisms, still I think it is very very good and am looking forward to the rest of the episodes. Compared to the rest of tv/streaming shows it's still one of the best.

I think it is still a great show. Well, I enjoy it anyway. The Martha dramas, and tales of Canada, kept it fresh for me. Were the same people having a sook about Serena's redemption complaining at all about the redemption of Jaime, or Tyrion, on Game of Thrones? Those did characters did horrendous shit, yet were still adored by many.

i watched the first 2 season on dvd. I am deciding if I will get the Hulu, or wait for DVD.

I'm kind of irritated by Whitford as deus ex machina. Also, Luke and Nick have been such cunts this season that I want them both to die painfully. I actually like Serena's forced reckoning and the path being laid out for her repentance. I don't understand why the critical opinion would be that characters (people) aren't allowed to redeem themselves or learn from their mistakes. That stance is insipid, destructive, asinine and makes for lousy, black & white narratives.

i can believe Serena will be redemeed and i am not against it, but i still want to see her pay dearly for.what she has done. She will probably die sacrificing herself for the good cause.

As wicked as Serena is at times, she's also complex and helps keep things interesting when she's unpredictable. I liked seeing this other side of her, yet ... I don't expect permanence. She'll have her moments, but I doubt she'll be truly or fully redeemed. Nick is decent and has been self-sacrificial many times (more than June deserves tbh), but the actor comes off dull on screen and not particularly skilled. Luke has been selfish and less-than-reliable at times. I don't trust him this season in regards to the baby. Emily, Moira, the Canada scenes are more watchable to me at the moment than June's story.

The story is really so much bigger than June or Serena. The really interesting story is the rise of Gilead and the show should've taken a deep dive into that this season instead of more tedium at the Waterford house.

I agree. It's an epic-scoped story, and there are so many interesting elements to explore if they just commit to doing so. Instead of being stuck at one house or another. I'm interested to see the condition of other locations aside from the Colonies, and Chicago was mentioned.

I think Nick will die in Chicago.

hopefully. the actor is terrible

Tired of June's sneers and smug looks. Too much June, I want to see Emily reunite with her wife

His eyebrows get impossibly thicker every season. Did Liz Moss have something done to her eyes?

This show started to derail the last few episodes of season 2 and now it's just a mess. It MIGHT have worked to have June sympathize with Serena and even Aunt Lydia in a Stockholm Syndrome kind of way, or to deliberately fake it as a sort of resistance spy. But the story and motivations are all over the place and it feels like they are just filling up time with lots of staring and slow moving scenes set to music.

all those group scenes with the handmaids are not forgiving: Moss is always the ugliest one in the bunch. She looks even worse this season. It's quite distracting. All those men risking their life for that? LOL

Yeah, but she's a proven breeder.

^yes, but that she would inspire hot passions in those men is comedy gold.

BTW, Fiennes is another one that looks like shit this season. Is he ill?

and now June can go wherever she pleases in the Puttnams house to play marriage counselor with Serena and Fred. The writers must be retarded, it's the only explanation.

[quote]that she would inspire hot passions in those men is comedy gold.

Passion is not required. It is, in fact, forbidden. Forceful breeding is the goal.

episode 4: the mother of all snooze fests. I'm out. Fuck you, Hulu. Fuck you right in the ass.

wow, really nobody's watching, uh?

I really wish they would do a flashback of Aunt Lydia of her before Gilead period. Who was she and how did she become what she is?

The pace of the show is way too slow I find myself wanting to fast forward through part. And I’m sick of June’s mugging for the camera

I'm still watching, but this season's storytelling isn't very compelling. Cinematography is still striking. Nearly every single shot is gorgeous (minus the long, lingering close-ups of June with her repertoire of 2-3 wretched expressions). Last episode felt like a filler. The only mildly interesting scenes to me were a couple of the aligning ones with June and Serena (June is weaponizing her), and the scene where Aunt Lydia loses it with Janine. And what's with June saying about Commander Waterford that when she looks at him she doesn't feel hatred, though it isn't love. This was ambiguous in the text too. I was looking forward to the Emily reunion with her wife and son, but was underwhelmed at the wife and son. Nice that the wife made sure the kid remembered his other mom during those years of separation.

[quote]wow, really nobody's watching, uh?

I watched the first season avidly (despite some misgivings about the show-only original material that was brought in towards the end of the season), slogged my way through the second, and finally decided not to bother with the third. I'm now convinced that the reason the first season was so exceptional was the involvement of Reed Murano, and Atwood's original novel. Bruce Miller has a rep for running shows off a cliff and he's lived up to it here. They made a mistake by choosing him to be the showrunner.

The first season was water cooler because of the parallels to our government after the election. It’s less compelling as a show the more we live it.

Look at Alabama, Georgia, Missouri and Ohio.

June gets to wander around a lot by herself, smoke a cigarette, etc. Pretty unrealistic they aren't watching her closer

Elizabeth Moss is ugly in those close ups. WOOF! So she slept with Luke again? Please don't let her get pregnant again

[quote]I'm now convinced that the reason the first season was so exceptional was the involvement of Reed Murano, and Atwood's original novel.

Murano only directed the first three episodes, which set the tone for the show, but the rest of the episodes were not hers. The show worked mostly because of the source material. Writing matters.

Elizabeth Moss is so distractingly ugly that I can't stand to look at her any longer.

[quote]Murano only directed the first three episodes, which set the tone for the show, but the rest of the episodes were not hers. The show worked mostly because of the source material. Writing matters.

I'm aware that Morano only directed the first three episodes, but she was also an executive producer on those episodes - and when people praise the first season, you'll find that most of the time those three episodes are what they're talking about, their reference point. I'm not saying that she was solely responsible for them, but I believe her contributions had a major hand in creating the bar for the show, and it hasn't lived up to that bar since without her. And I acknowledged the role Atwood's novel played in the creative success of the first season.

I think Moss is quite pretty in the flashbacks but she looks awful in the present. It makes sense story wise

R78 Indeed the difference between past June and present June is striking. The difference is in a little bit of make-up but it goes a long way to point out the difference between the two lives.

I would really like to see how the rest of Gilead lives. It's so boring that we only see the same neighborhood and the same bunch of people all the time. I would really like to know more about the structure and the political system. Are there neighborhoods and structures like June's in every major city? Who and how do they produce food, medication, entertainment, clothes, cars etc. Where do all these guys with the machine guns come from and who does the actual work like in factories or cleaning the streets etc if so many people work in security and need to keep everyone in line. How does the rest of Gilead live? Where do they live, buy their groceries? Are there still public schools, universities, theatres, cinemas etc. Do many questions and opportunities but we only see the same small community all the time.

Do you guys also think that Luke and Nichole might be in danger after that video last episode? Maybe Gilead has spies and structures in Canada and they will try and kidnap the baby and bring her back.

I could see Fred and Serena coming to close to getting the baby back. But, the Canadian government somehow intervenes and requires that Fred and the baby take a DNA test to make sure that there is indeed a biological connection. The test shows that Fred isn't the father and they have to give the baby back to Luke.

If Fred is publicly revealed to Gilead as not being the father of the baby-- then I can see it bringing on new conflicts among the leadership. Back in season 1, a doctor told June that it was likely that most of the commanders were probably sterile and he offered to inseminate June with his own sperm in order to keep her from being punished later on. She refused. I wouldn't be surprised if the doctor did at least impregnate another handmaid and I bet a couple of commanders' wives like Serena figured their husbands were sterile and arranged for other men to impregnate the handmaids.

R81 I think these people are really fucked up and don't really care who the fathers (or mothers) are. They just want to produce as many babies as possible and don't really care who fathers or carries them. Is June actually having "the ritual" with the new commander? Maybe going public was a mistake, Luke? They're coming for you and Nichole....

I thought this episode was quite good. But, I hope the pacing of the storyline picks up for the rest of the season. I wish the writers would stop going back and forth between trying to redeem Serena.

Did she sleep with Nick again? I assumed she did because she pulled him back into her bedroom.

She is so ugly I can't imagine men being so in lust with her and she is looking too old for prime baby making, she looks older than the other handmaids

Anyone watch the new episode yet?

*Spoiler* The Waterfords want the baby back

I was so pushed at Serena in this episode.

What! Serena gets to Canada and doesn’t make a run for it? I thought she would stay at the very least to be in the same country as her daughter. Not where I thought this was going in that she went back, but I guess now that she has the satellite phone maybe she will turn and spy against Gilead.

The staged broadcast at the end of the last episode reminded me of The Hunger Games films.

Some of the oversharing of secrets from June and Serena to Luke is going to come back to bite them.

Some, not all, women can be fertile well into 30s and 40s, so I didn't take issue with the character age of 30-something in the book or series, but Moss does appear older than she is, older than all the other handmaids. More prolonged scowling, sneering, and glaring up at the camera in this episode. I understand it, but it's an overdone device at this point.

I just think with June getting older and all the trouble she has caused they would ship her out to the colonies like they had done with Emily

June’s walking partner isn’t Luke’s first wife is she? that would make for an interesting twist.

I think June will be sent (briefly) to the colonies at some point, and will discover what exactly happened to her mother there. Her mother was probably a leader of sorts among the prisoners before she died.

No, that handmaid is not Luke's first wife. But would've been an interesting twist, I agree. She'll probably see his first wife again and I imagine the woman will be in a better position than June is. She could be an aunt or a commander's wife. Bonus if she has some authority over June's life or well-being and decides whether to be merciful or vengeful. I think the former.

R89 June just gave birth to a healthy baby. As long as there is a chance she will have more kids in the future, she's not going anywhere. They even brought Emily back and she was probably exposed to radiation for quite some time at the colonies.

You guys also act like June is a million years old and the ugliest bitch on the planet. How old is she? Mid or late 30s? So she is a normal looking woman who looks her age. And lots of women have children in their 30s or 40s nowadays. Alexis Bledel was also very beautiful in her 20s and looks really old in this series. Maybe it's just the lack of make-up that we're usually used too....in combination with UHD.

I loved the reveal regarding the cassette tape. Fans of the book will dig that. I wonder how much input Atwood had in that storyline, she must have had a backstory in her head.

The new walking partner is an interesting addition. Also agree with those who think Nicole’s DNA will be revealed by Luke, of course this would normally mean the wall for everyone involved. Not sure they’re brave enough to kill June but I think they’ll kill of Nick.

I bet June's walking partner is knocked up by a man who isn't her commander.

Is television and other forms of entertainment forbidden in Gilead?

well, at least something happened in this episode! And only after 5 weeks! Progress! The last scene shows us that Gilead owns tv studios, so the have tv channels? Will they ever tell us what do they broadcast? I don't think we have ever seen a tv screen in Gilead. But it seems so strange for a dictatorship not to have mass media. Even North Korea has public television. I find this quite dumb from Atwood and the producers of the show.

Episode 2 was so dull. All these random Marthas. Not interested.

I think they were broadcasting that message to Canada.

But what is to prevent Luke from sharing that the baby isn’t related to the Waterfords, and that the driver is the father. And demand that HIS biological daughter was kidnapped. S it with that other commanders family?

And WHY didn’t June give Luke more information in the cassette tape?? Where she is, etc.

Plot holes galore.

Episode 4 was the most compelling of this season, but I'm getting over this show.

I don't mind that June keeps escaping death, she is the lead character after all, but I don't understand any of the motivations behind the characters.

Why is the Commander willing to do anything to win back Serena? He fucking had her finger cut off.

Why is Serena so desperately attached to Nichole who is not her daughter OR her husband's daughter?

Why if babies are popping out every other minute in this town can't they get the Waterfords a baby?

Why does June ever trust the Waterfords?

Why on earth would the Canadian government do anything to return Nichole to Gilead? Why would the Waterfords even think that could happen? Nichole is not biologically related to either of them, although I guess Fred still thinks he's the father.

It's so incredibly absurd.

Aren't Canada and Gilead at war or what was this stuff about Chicago about? Why would they care about returning a baby during an international crisis? They grant asylum to thousands/hundreds of people who make it out of Gilead. Why would they treat this baby differently? I'm surprised Gilead did not try to kidnap Nichols.

I think I saw Fred using the internet and his laptop from time to time, but I haven't seen any televisions at any of their homes. I also doubt normal people are allowed to use the internet or even phones.

This show is boring.

No, Canada and Gilead aren't at war. Gilead is at war with what's left of the U.S. and still fighting over some territories that haven't yet fallen such as in Chicago. Gilead can technically broadcast, but I don't think they regularly do so. Most communications, entertainment, etc are forbidden for the people's consumption.

[quote] I think I saw Fred using the internet and his laptop from time to time, but I haven't seen any televisions at any of their homes. I also doubt normal people are allowed to use the internet or even phones.

They had a handheld device that they showed Luke on when June ID-ed him.

I think a lot of the issues/weirdness would be resolved if they clarified what exactly Fred does. Sometimes he's seen as a high ranking official who can leave Gilead, sometimes he's terrified of winding up on the wall in a way that Bradley Whitford is never. It's very odd.

I had totally forgotten that the baby in Canada (what's her fucking names again? This shtick of babies having different names according to whom is talking is so annoying. The same happened in Mia Farrow's house with her brood of kids, BTW) is not Fred's. Must be because i block out every scene with Nick because they're 100% dramatically inept. I also hate the actor playing Luke. At least we got to see again the hottie Tuello. Yum.

I agree that they cant kill June for obvious reasons, but the fact that she's still alive and not missing a finger, an eye or her tongue is absurd. People end up maimed or dead for a fraction of what June has done in 3 seasons. it's absurd. This season seem she seems more free than ever (hanging around in the Puttnams house, smoking, listening pop music on a cassette player...)

Why wouldn’t Luke have given Serena something to give to June? Like a letter or personal memento? Get it together, Luke! Talk about a missed opportunity.

He also accepted Serena's gift. It could have conteined a tracking device for all he knows. Luke is a total imbecile.

R108 I’m sure that gift went into the trash as soon as Serena walked away

[quote]R6 It's obvious from the first three episodes that the writers have no idea where they're going now.

Isn’t author Margaret Atwood a consultant? I doubt she’d devise an inept plot.

R96 - the Gilead TV network is probably very much like Fox News. Propaganda galore for the religious nuts.

And honestly, why didn’t Serena just defect to Canada when she had the chance? She’s completely unhappy with her life in Gilead: no baby, no close friends, hates her husband, hates her mom. Hell she’s also technically homeless since she burned her house down.

NOTHING keeping her there.

r110: "consultant" means nothing. They probably wanna keep her happy, accepting 10% of her input (if any)

Nichole Waterford is the Elian Gonzalez of Gilead!

Nothing will ever top the protest scene in season one during Heart Of Glass. It was when the present and the fiction merged into one.

Geez move the story along!! And no more flight and recapture scenes.....you've done that enough already. And you've exhausted the Rory Gilmore pouting and damaged soul scenes. And enough with June flaring her nostrils. Move it along.

If Serena's mother ever gets low on funds, she can always apply for a job as an Aunt Lydia.

[quote]I think a lot of the issues/weirdness would be resolved if they clarified what exactly Fred does. Sometimes he's seen as a high ranking official who can leave Gilead, sometimes he's terrified of winding up on the wall

Fred used to be pretty high up but got demoted over the course of the show.

[quote]At least we got to see again the hottie Tuello. Yum.

Yes, I was very happy to see him pop up again.

Serena is definitely not ready to leave Gilead behind r112 Sure she has taken some steps to rebel (and already regrets her big one), but that's a completely different story.

[quote]But what is to prevent Luke from sharing that the baby isn’t related to the Waterfords, and that the driver is the father. And demand that HIS biological daughter was kidnapped. S it with that other commanders family?

I think Luke will share those details with the Canadian government and also the US government guy and they will come up with some secret plan. I bet the US government guy knows a lot, but he's not talking.

[Quote]Why wouldn’t Luke have given Serena something to give to June? Like a letter or personal memento? Get it together, Luke! Talk about a missed opportunity.

Seriously? Put yourself in his shoes. He has no reason to trust Gilead and trust them to deliver any sort of personal message to his wife. The last thing he would want is open up to the family who raped his wife.

Israeli promo which is slightly different from the Hulu one.

[quote]Isn’t author Margaret Atwood a consultant? I doubt she’d devise an inept plot.

Atwood has said she really has no control over anything. She's not hanging out in the writers' room. I think they probably toss her a courtesy question every now and then, but having her as a consultant is basically just a way to display that she endorses the show.

[quote] having her as a consultant is basically just a way to display that she endorses the show.

Not to mention justifying giving her an additional paycheck.

That's the way it always works. GRRM joked they could have aliens land on Westeros and there is nothing he could do about it. Authors don't have creative control once they sell the rights to their story.

I dont wanna see Serena defecting to Canada. I wanna see her punished and harsh for her crimes. Dont you?

am i the only one to think that Fiennes look terrible this season? Like he aged 30 years in one. Did he lose a ton of weight? is he il?

Atwood does have some influence on the series in terms of worldbuilding, but probably not any veto power. Depends on how authors negotiate, their positioning, industry connections and level or lack of expertise in the translation to screen process. EL James had enormous amount of control, so does Anne Rice, and TWD's Robert Kirkman as some examples. But a lot of authors and their agents either don't care and want a quick payoff, and/or don't want to fight for and sacrifice something, say a slash in pay versus retaining more creative control.

[quote]I dont wanna see Serena defecting to Canada. I wanna see her punished and harsh for her crimes. Dont you?

I think she will eventually be punished somehow along with the other commanders' wives and the aunts. I thought the storyline in season 2 where Emily poisoned that commander's ex wife at the colonies was foreshadowing that Serena will get severely punished at some point.

June just comes across as too Bad Ass for me, in the book she's cowed and scared, like nearly all the characters. this feels to soap opera like

^not as much as the Dlers wanting Luke's first wife coming up next as... June's walking partner!! Stop watching Flamingo Road, guys!

sexy sluts

Since Atwood is releasing The Testaments set in the same world, I'd guess/hope her input was to make sure series two and three don't veer too far away from that.

I had no idea

I was excited for the third season to start. Now I'm thinking if I'm ever given six months to live I will dive back in. Each episode is like a fucking eternity.

really? it's great tv, I just don't know whether it's as good as the original book.

The pacing is so slow.... The first season was an A+ but this is dire. And I agree, why would Serena be so intent on getting back the baby that has no connection to her? Although I suppose knowing that her husband can’t get a woman pregnant could be driving her awareness that round 2 with another handmaiden won’t work....

[Quote]why would Serena be so intent on getting back the baby that has no connection to her?

...seriously? Throughout the entire pregnancy and throughout the first however many months of life Serena looked at this as her baby. That it isnt biologically related to her is something she accepted would be the case years ago. In her mind, this was her baby. That's consistent with the character and the entire framework of Gilead.

[quote]The pacing is so slow....

not to me

Moss gets harder looking by the minute. If looks could kill we would all be at room temperature.

MGM owns the rights to produce the handmaid's tale. Atwood sold these rights a long time ago. Hulu/MGM are giving atwood a development deal to keep her quiet. They can do whatever they want and they are beyond book.

Pre order 'The Testments' by Margaret Atwood today on Quote4. The long awaited sequel to The Handmaid's Tale.

I find Elizabeth Moss hard to look at. That beak of hers. Also, she no chemistry with the actor who plays Luke. The Waterford actors are very good.

Also tired of Emily’s wide eyed gape.

R112 Serena's actress addressed this in an interview:

"If you do go to Canada, who knows what becomes of you there? You might become a political prisoner. You might go on trial. There’s so many things that Serena has considered, you know way back from Season 2 when she went to Canada, and she did have that carrot dangled in front of her where she could’ve stayed. But just don’t know under these circumstances what becomes of you."

If the series shows a war with Gilead vs. Canada/remaining US government/allies, I could see the commanders, the wives, and Aunts all being detained and eventually punished by some government entity.

I really want to see Lydia punished for her crimes along with the Waterfords. I would laugh if Lydia somehow ended up in Canada and Moira and Emily teamed up and killed her.

I know the 1990 adaptation movie was a flop. Did Atwood hate that adaptation?

It's ironic isn't it, that Moss stars in this show all about religion controlling people while being a Scientologist. Does she not see it?

^^I've had the same thought. ^^

R145 Not an answer to your question, but an interesting examination of the film. I didn’t know it was originally a Sigourney Weaver project, and after she became pregnant and dropped out no American actress would take on the part.

[quote]It's ironic isn't it, that Moss stars in this show all about religion controlling people while being a Scientologist. Does she not see it?

Moss was born into the Scieno cult and I recall her father is a higher up. They probably get treated quite well. I can sort of give her break because the cult is all she has ever known.

The actors who join Scientology as adults piss me off more. Michael Pena is one of them. When he did that Cesar Chavez biopic, during press junkets and interviews he was going on an on about he admired Chavez for fighting for human and labor rights. I thought it was ironic for him to admire Chavez, yet he's apart of cult that was founded by man who abused people in various ways and SeaOrg members in Scientology are worked to death and treated like shit. David Miscaviage's niece and father have both written books about Scientology and the abuse of children and adults.

R148 Thanks for posting that. Very interesting info on the 1990 movie.

I know the producers of the Hulu show said they made Serena younger to serve as competition for June. I think several 40 or 50 something actresses could have played Serena quite well. Maybe Laura Linney would have great as Serena.

[quote] I would really like to see how the rest of Gilead lives. It's so boring that we only see the same neighborhood and the same bunch of people all the time.

The show has too low of a budget to allow this.

I think the series might show scenes of the Chicago battle that was mentioned earlier in the season.

I'm curious if the series will ever give some scenes of what's going on in the US government in exile. Last season, June listened to the car radio which was being broadcast from Alaska with Oprah doing a news segment. The show is filmed in Canada so they can easily film scenes and pretend it's Alaska.

June comes across as way to fucking badass and YASSGURL and I can't stand it.

way TOO

they claim this show is everything and important and timely and stuff, but the truth is that all this SJW posturing is ruining the series. I wonder what Atwood really thinks of the show, where June can basically say or do anything and suffer no consequences.

Still waiting for aunt Lydia’s back story.

Why doesn't Emily want to return to her wife and kid? Is it because she used to be a highly sexed character (who managed to hook up even in Gilead) and is worried she'll be rejected now she is sans clitoris?

[quote] where June can basically say or do anything and suffer no consequences.

that ruins it for me, and there are lots of great things about the show, the acting, the other characters' developments, but this ruins it

r157: i had the impression that both emily and her wife understand that they cant be together anymore. What happened to emily is so huge that there's no way they can reconnect again as a married couple. It's sad but i guess it's realistic. Do you guys think that they will remain together ? I dont.

They are just taking it slow. It's been years and Emily has been through a lot.

You can't just immediately go back to the way things were.

What’s strange is Emily in Gilead was a hell raiser and a vital foe for the regime. In Canada she’s catatonic

I was just thinking after the 3rd episode that June would in reality be hanging from the wall especially after the baby was photographed with Luke. That Guardian would have arrested her on the spot.

R161 I think the PTSD kicking in. Remember she has been through a lot and really doesn't have to do the survival tactics she did in Gilead.

of course she's catatonic in Canada: she's got huge traumas to process.

Everyone in Canada is catatonic.

But why would Emily not want to be with stability with her wife and child? I’m sure if I went through what she did I’d never let them go.

R166 I recall reading somewhere that people who go through PTSD can have very stable and supportive families and still not feel comfortable being around them.

emily is doing really well, considering, her story line is much more compelling. the ozzie and harriet couple and june are WAY too unrealistic for me, this is a militaristic regime change, not a PTA squabble, and they are all passive aggressive and bitchy, all three characters should be killed off

What was the deal with the airplane? Why rip all of the seats out if you still plan on using it?

R169 It was a cargo plane. There are no scheduled passenger flights between Gilead and Canada.

I was thinking airforce or something like that

how old is Rita supposed to be? last season she said her late son was 19. she looks younger than June.

R11 The actress is 41 in real life. I have wondered about how old the character is supposed to be on the show. Sometimes she looks older because of the Martha clothing and the lack of makeup. Other times she looks like younger than June. My guess is Rita married young and had the son right away. I don't think the show has ever said what happened to Rita's husband. I think maybe at some point they might do brief flashbacks to Rita's life before Gilead.

[quote]how old is Rita supposed to be? last season she said her late son was 19. she looks younger than June.

the steam from the dishwashing does WONDERS

Last nights episode was another WTF with Aunt Lydia crying to June about the injustice of women being silenced. The same Aunt Lydia who beats June, zaps June, burns hands, hangs people from walls, cuts out eyes, ect suddenly becomes a champion of women keeping their voice.

It was so ridiculous even Moss seemed embarrassed during the scene

Under his arm.

i find it weird the Republic of Gilead is creating this huge media campaign to retrieve ONE child. Not to mention it's an absurd strategy. Like US or Europe would listen to North Korea's pleas in the real world. Meh.

R175 I hated that scene. Lydia's backstory is supposed to be explored this season and I'm already betting the writers will try to make the audience feel sorry for Lydia. I hope Lydia, Serena, and the other vicious aunts and commanders' wives get punished by the end of the series.

The female characters that I do feel sorry for are the handmaids and the Marthas like Rita who get treated horribly. I do think Rita will snap at some point and take revenge for her son's death.

OMG, is Meloni's commander gay and hitting on Fiennes??? He even presented (clothed) hole in the billiard scene!

Producers of the show always stated that Handmaid's rooms had no mirrors because of the sin of vanity. The Washington handmaid had a mirror in her room. And why Washington handmaids have their lips sealed while in Boston they don't? Is there an explication?

weirdos

R180 I think in the book it was suggested the Handmaids didn't have mirrors because of the danger they'd use the glass to cut themselves/someone else. Offred's predecessor hung herself off a hook in the closet if I recall correctly.

I thought the Washington Handmaids having their mouths sewn up was indicative of it being the seat of power where the belief was strongest so they had the most radical interpretation of the law.

I must admit it was probably the most gruesome part of any of the series so far. Also some of the shots in this episode were stunning, if bleak as fuck.

I know there’s no use in pointing out plot holes, but something that has always bothered me is that they would never be such a racially integrated society. And the latest episode with Commander Meloni’s family — all his children of different races, that would never happen in this racially pure, “utopian” society.

R183 It's been pointed out before they've deviated from the book in that respect. The ruling class in the book was completely white and black people were called the Children of Ham and "resettled".

I may be mistaken but we haven't seen any PoC in the ruling class in the television series, have we? They're Handmaids or Marthas but I don't remember seeing any Commanders or Wives. One could argue they've kind of remained true to the book in that PoC are still second class citizens.

I think I saw one “commander” who was black in a previous season and some black guardians. An Asian Commander too IIRC.

So what happens to these children of Commanders? Do they become commanders and wives too? Or will some of them be handmaidens and Marthas?

Did I interpret that right — was Christopher Meloni hitting on Commander Waterford??? Implying moving up in the ranks in exchange for sexy times??

R187 Yes he was most definitely hitting on him. It's another example of their hypocrisy.

The scene of the Lincoln Memorial statue destroyed was so reminiscent of when the Taliban destroyed that giant Buddha statue carved into a mountain.

Both done in the name of religion.

Chilling.

R185, Yeah, there was a black commander last season and his wife was pregnant.

I bet that the Waterfords will rat out Christopher Meloni's character and he'll end up on the wall and I could see Serena plotting to take away the kids from the wife.

I hope they do move the storyline to Washington, looks a lot more interesting.

R189 I’ll raise you the decapitated Lincoln statue and raise you the Washington monument turned into a giant cross. Frightening.

[quote]I thought the Washington Handmaids having their mouths sewn up was indicative of it being the seat of power where the belief was strongest so they had the most radical interpretation of the law.

I figured it was just the latest in handmaid fashion.

So Serena is back to being a cunt again? Ugh so tedious.

happy pride month

i agree that while the plot is all over the place this season, visually this was a great episode..i'm sticking with this show because it's well shot, basically

What a tedious episode with frozen molasses-like pacing.

Yes, the shots of the Lincoln Memorial and Washington Monument were striking, but nothing else about this episode worked.

June openly screaming at Serena in public with NO repercussions? Monstrous Aunt Lydia suddenly emotional about the silencing of women? And speaking of, exactly how were these women with their lips sewn shut supposed to eat and drink?

Not to mention, any growth that Serena has shown has been completely erased and Canada even considering returning Nicole. The characters and rules change from week to week, depending on what the writer want, and the world they so carefully built in the first two seasons is gone.

[quote]And speaking of, exactly how were these women with their lips sewn shut supposed to eat and drink?

For food, I'm guessing they eat through feeding tubes in the stomach or nose.

I'm out. I hate these people, and I don't care what happens to them.

I'm not sure why Nick's past was supposed to be a shocking reveal. Maybe for the fans only watching for him, but everyone else surely wasn't surprised?

[quote]The characters and rules change from week to week, depending on what the writer want, and the world they so carefully built in the first two seasons is gone.

I couldn't agree more

[quote]I'm not sure why Nick's past was supposed to be a shocking reveal.

Not nearly as shocking as his ever thickening brows.

How do the DC handmaid's brush their teeth? They'd become septic. Which wouldn't be very healthy for any potential babies. That was just a stupid plot device.

At least now we can route for Nick's death!

[quote]At least now we can route for Nick's death!

Personally, I think it will be down Avenue of the Americas.

Didn’t Season 1 allude to Nick having a prison background or something??

[quote]R6 the writers wrote the most unbelievable plot twist they could muster and had her return to Gilead volunatarily.

[italic]Not without my daughter![/italic]

Why does this mystify you? It’s not really a new theme ... it’s classic, actually.

[quote]R23 I hate how the writers know very well that all everybody want by now is the aunt Lydia flashback and yet they're taking their fucking sweet time about it.

[bold]#FreeTheLydiaEpisodes!

[quote] Why is the Commander willing to do anything to win back Serena? He fucking had her finger cut off.

He needs to present a unified, happy marriage within society to keep from sinking lower and lower in prestige/work. She is his business partner. It’s a “by any means necessary” approach on his part.

And the finger business was probably a mistake.

[quote]R92 You guys also act like June is a million years old and the ugliest bitch on the planet. How old is she? Mid or late 30s?

I’ve never noticed her age. If dialogue revealed she was in her late 20s, I wouldn’t pause to question it.

It’s not like the last decade’s been kind. And she’s just had the occasional butter pat to use as moisturizer.

[quote]Didn’t Season 1 allude to Nick having a prison background or something??

Yes. But, I can't recall the details and I think his brother also had a criminal background.

the series jumped the damn shark

^^^ Or for this show “Smuggled the Baby to Canada”

[quote]How do the DC handmaid's brush their teeth? They'd become septic. Which wouldn't be very healthy for any potential babies. That was just a stupid plot device.

I agree, it's stupid as fuck. I thought it was stupid last season when Emily was returned to the districts to be a handmaid even after she had exposed to radiation and other toxins at the colonies.

I wouldn't be surprised if it DC commanders ordered all that the teeth of the handmaids be extracted.

Avclub called the episode frustrating and they are always very generous

I just watched the new episode. Ugh it looks like the writers are pairing Moira and Emily.

I'm calling it now- Commander Lawrence's wife loony Eleanor will steal the Putnam baby by the end of the season.

Good, shoot them all. I’ve lost any shred of sympathy for any of the characters

I’m so over June and her hijinks (and beat face). On episode 7 where she’s trying to see Hannah at the school — gurl, move on. June would have been hanged or sent to colonies by now.

The peripheral characters are much more interesting.

Atwood's novel was about the degradation and disenfranchisement of women.

The series has become about a whiny mom.

Yup. The book also is a great study in unreliable narrators (only first person). This show has become all about SHOW ME. Some of the acting is exceptionally good, but the plot turns make it a joke

R215 I liked the Moira and Emily scenes. They have an understanding through share experiences and the brief protesting brought some life back into Emily.

It's insane that Canada would say June gave up her parental rights considering the environment she is in... she has no rights of her own! Plus she is on record stating she wants Nicole to be in Canada with her husband. This plus Emily being questioned about the crimes she committed in Gilead makes me wonder if refugee status will mean anything...

Apparently there are Gilead sympathizers in Canada. I wonder if June attacking the other Handmaid which might result in miscarriage might mean trouble for her.

On a Handmaid's Tale Facebook group, one person has the theory that the pregnant handmaid's baby will be born disabled and the handmaid senses that.

they mention a "shredder" in the grocery store in the first episode

I wish they'd hurry up with the scene where Meloni rapes Fiennes.

How many bloody episodes are left this season?

I think there's three more episodes of fuck all happening to go.

R227 - Thank you for the info. I think they should have stopped at Season One (to the end of Atwood's book). This season is dreadful.

It’s only 3 episodes left? This has been the slowest moving season ever. Feels like nothing has happened.

Well, season 1 was ten episodes, but season 2 was twelve, so it's either three or five.

According to IMDB, there will be 13 episodes.

Can't wait for the Aunt Lydia flashback/backstory. Was she a Deplorable suburban homeschooling mum? Or some kind of crazy mid-level government operative? And June should not have revealed Nicole was 'conceived in love'. Gurl, go with the plan! Get Hannah and get your ass to Canada! I don't understand the Luke-hate here. He's sexy in both the before and after scenes. He's doing the best he can.

I bet she worked in an abortion clinic.

I think S3 has 13 episodes or something like that (shudder...)

Sorry, I see someone has already posted it before my thread display refreshed.^

unlucky 13

[quote]r218 I’m so over June and her hijinks (and beat face) ... The peripheral characters are much more interesting.

Well, that's the case with many TV shows. It's about the world the lead character inhabits. (It's not like Don Draper was always so incredibly interesting on MAD MEN all on his own, for example.)

It would add more tension if June had to walk more of a tightrope, though. She IS turning into a bit of a sass-mouth. But what's a revolutionary to do?

I think the one that escaped to Canada will be sent back because she was arrested for being with Moira at the rally. How as a new resident, she was expected to obey local laws, and it will be twisted to appear she didn't.

[quote]But what's a revolutionary to do?

Hide and be a bit more discreet. This bitch is all over the place

I wish she tossed that pregnant walker bitch over the railing.

I wish she would have bitten off that guy's dick

If they do send Emily back I will quit watching.

They won’t send Emily back. No fucking way will that happen.

Emily’s wife is really, really ugly.

[quote]I wish they'd hurry up with the scene where Meloni rapes Fiennes

I'm thinking that will happen in episode 11 or 12.

He does seem to take an odd fascination of the chump

Has anyone heard if there is going to be a Season 4? I hope not. They've done all the damage to the story that I can take.

There are supposed six seasons

I can’t stand to look at Moss’s fugliness for three more seasons. I’m done.

[quote] I wish they'd hurry up with the scene where Meloni rapes Fiennes

And get tried and punished by Olivia Benson, the Supreme Inquisitor in the Ministry of Sex Crimes.

LOL, R250.

Meloni's character will probably accuse Fred of gender treachery to save his own ass. I feel like Fred is done for.

I think they'll use it as character development so that Fred can empathize with June.

[quote]r249 I can’t stand to look at Moss’s fugliness for three more seasons. I’m done.

Yes. I'm sure they miss you over on chatterbate.

Run along, now.

Good point, R253. I like that.

This show needs to end. It should have just been a mini-series.

It's really too bleak to continue and be of interest. It should have ended this season.

OMG ... it's like you guys want everything to be a Disney musical, or something!

(retch)

june needs to speak less, her face and her actions ring strongly and true, her writing is ridiculous and blathering

All of you hate watchers are so annoying. If you don’t like Elisabeth Moss then there is little to no reason to watch this show. Your devotion to it doesn’t make any sense. I think she’s fascinating and while I find it a bit of a stretch that she would have this influence over so many people, commanders, etc, I appreciate that she is the hero of the story.

Alexis Bliedel (?) is fantastic in this and I really empathise with her character. As grim as this story is, I find it comforting in these times that creatives are exploring these issues as the US continues its short walk to fascism.

They’ll probably wrap it up with Season 4 when June burns down Gilead Carrie White-style. I’m up for that. It will hopefully coincide with the removal of Drumpf from the WH and the end of the GOP.

I like moss, she’s an amazing actress. So are the others. But the writing for them has become terrible. It’s ruins the story and turns their acting into camp

R260, six seasons are slated

Thanks R262. Seems like a bit of stretch. In that case, I hope June escapes Gilead and becomes a global activist.

I want to see Gilead burn. At least parts of it. It would be nice to see a victory by the Americans and all the Commanders, Wives and soldiers punished.

^in maybe a disputed territory.

Why wouldn’t they have renamed Washington? I know they got rid of the D.C., but keeping a city named after a man might be seen as sacrilege, no? They renamed the country Gilead...

Because, as a slave owner, Washington is a holy man!

I got the impression from the book that DC disappeared entirely, either via war or environmental issues

Moss is fugtastic and looks older than Serena most of the time. She also seems to wander around at will.

I wish Janine would be written out. No way would a Commander be able to get it up for Blind Pew. Emily is going to do a big reveal about her FGM soon, should be fun.

her FGM?

Fabulous Gravy Moment

I looked it up

[quote]I want to see Gilead burn. At least parts of it. It would be nice to see a victory by the Americans and all the Commanders, Wives and soldiers punished.

I want to see that too. I hope Serena doesn't escape major punishment.

They die by their own hand

Ugh, I thought Lydia's backstory was lame.

Moss must be one of the most unphotogenic actresses around.

she's a handmaid, not a supermodel. she's supposed to look unadorned and sexless, recall from the first season where she begged for hand lotion? beaty products are clearly forbidden in Gilead

Many of the handmaidens are fug. Why would the Commanders want to breed with that?

[quote]Why would the Commanders want to breed with that?

beggars can't be choosers I guess. They're the ones who are fertile

So Aunt Lydia was a judgmental cunt in her past as well. I was hoping for better.

[quote] They're the ones who are fertile

or so they claim

[quote]I was hoping for better.

once a bitch, always a bitch

Watching Aunt Lydia’s karaoke duet of “Islands in the Stream” was ... surreal.

I thought for sure there was going to be a lesbian subplot with Lydia, especially when that mother was putting makeup on her

First time I have ever disliked Ann Dowd in anything.

Maybe the episode needed a few more glares from E. Moss.

I hated Ann Dowd's character in The Leftovers. I hate Aunt Lydia, but I Ann Down deserved her Emmy vin.

In the preview for ep. 9 they hint June might attack Serena but I doubt it.

Are Israeli promos being released this season? The ones last season gave away major spoilers for several episodes.

I didn't get why the principal pulled away from Lydia on the couch. Was he embarrased he wasn't hard? Did he come in his pants? I didn't get the sudden shifting of gears.

Maybe it had to do with him being a widower, and wanting to take things slow?

R289 I thought it was because they were both religious and made her out to be a lusty sinner. She blamed the whore make-up and took it out on the kid's mother who'd bought it for her. I think.

Thank you. That makes sense.

R289 he thought it was too soon after his wife’s death, he said so himself

Pay attention, people

^^ but that's also the kind of thing one might say when they decide they're just not that into you.

Believe me, [italic]I KNOW!

I'm glad that they made Lydia a bitch before and after rather than go down the same route they tried (and failed) with Serena.

Serena’s backstory made her a reviled Ann Coulter-like figure. How was that trying to be redeeming?

Loved June's grin being the swirling center of mayhem in Loaves and Fishes! Girl is going to burn Gilead to the ground no matter who she has to take out. And I did not feel any empathy for her walking partner at any point, she deserved it for turning in the Martha.

When the final bullet rang out, that was an impressive fall. I must say.

[quote]r283 Watching Aunt Lydia’s karaoke duet of “Islands in the Stream” was ... surreal.

That was so well done. I was scared she was really going to flip out as they dragged her to the stage, then she opened up into something very loving and tender.

She's so good.

Interesting.

The costume designer (who also did WESTWORLD) calls the shade of red she devised for the handmaids "Lifeforce Red."

fascinating

June seems like she’s seriously worming her way into a position of power. She’s playing a set of layered games.

Game 1 is called I Don’t Give A Fuck. She’ll break rules and still thoughtlessly causes others to pay the price, whether it’s her mistress or the other Marthas. She’s still being a twatstreudel. With Sarah having been moved, she’ll do something truly, catastrophically stupid.

Game 2 is called I’m Going To Fuck You Up the Ass. She’s trying to get Luke to turn against the system and give information to either the rump US or the Canadians to save Nicole.

Game 3 is called Let’s Blow Shit Up. Having lost her daughter, and that Luke and her current commander will undoubtedly screw her over she’ll lash out like she always does. She’ll find a way to engage in a truly extraordinary act of public outrage that either forces her underground (terrorism) or something that sets up a commander for blackmail. She hasn’t shown the smarts to manage anything on this scale.

She doesn’t have any leverage to get control over her daughters situations, she without a major plot twist that gives her control over a very senior commander - she’s going to need a a big plot twist that allows her to twist Aunt Lydia, co-opt the Marthas and Serena into Rebellion, and take down a national level Commander to be her personal bitch.

In a way, I don't mind that June's behaving somewhat erratically, or recklessly.

We all like to think "Well, if [italic]I[/italic] were facing down a serial killed (or whatever), I'd...", but people are more fragile and inconsistent in real life. So June's a bit messy; who wouldn't be?

A lot of the time we just throw stuff out there in day-to-day life and hope it works.

I don't think the issue is that June's behaving erratically or recklessly that is the issue - it's that she continues to get away with her behaviour that's so ridiculous. This is supposed to be the most brutal regime on the planet but they're powerless against this one woman and her glare.

June needs a face slap

a VICIOUS face slapping!

[quote]r303 This is supposed to be the most brutal regime on the planet but they're powerless against this one woman and her glare.

You can't keep a good woman down, sucka!

Seems to go against the book in multiple ways

R307. Yes, it’s in uncharted waters as “licensed characters” versus following the original material.

Is the book worth reading, if I’ve already seen all episodes of the show? Are there interesting things in the book that weren’t on show?

FILM MAKING 101

Unbreakable Rule 749.3b(1)

When you discover that the talent can't sing a note much less carry a tune, CUT THE FUCKING KARAOKE SCENE.

R310. You know that was a set up scene that drove the perception of romance for a lonely woman. She was wearing make up for the first time, she was with a man for the first time since her marriage had ended in the Hoover administration.

It ended badly and she went smashy smashy. That moment of humanization - her giving in to her desire to be loved, the rejection and then her first step o become Aunt Lydia with putting her friend’s child into foster care were crucial backstory moments.

Aunt Lydia is Dark-Sided!!

R309, it’s short and super well written, super suspenseful and taut, like one drawn in inhalation. You can’t wait to exhale, but you never do

Aunt Lydia is a lesbo bitch and shamed. The end of this last episode shows that June likes killing black women. And is clearly into “heathers”

The karaoke scene brought me to chills, R310. I sped through the scene at fie, then forced myself to go back and watch. It was indescribable.

Fie!

I kept on thinking that the single mother Noelle was in the first episode as one of the new handmaids alongside June. But I guess I’d just seen the actress in something else.

It would be fitting if Noelle's kid somehow tracked Lydia down and got revenge on her.

R317 she was in Orange is the New Black, you may have recognized her from there

Lydia is a bitch

Sure. Now we see how her very loving heart as first, a child and family advocate and then as a teacher drove her into religious fundamentalism.

That's a hell of a backstory, isn't it? We've waited a long time for Aunt Lydia's story. It was worth it.

YES, R319, that’s where I knew her from. Thanks.

Agree r321 and completely believable. Couple that with zero birthrate and I could imagine how Gilead happened

[quote]Now we see how her very loving heart as first, a child and family advocate and then as a teacher drove her into religious fundamentalism.

ERRRR! wrong, she was a fundie judgie cunt from the beginning, and reacting to someone saying, "this is moving too fast" with shame and rejection is a sign of a flawed character. Aunt Lydia was and always will be a cunt.

[quote] Couple that with zero birthrate

which is still unbelievable - the book alludes to WHITE women not giving birth out of several factors, environment only being one of them. zero birth rate and society would simply stop existing, Gilead would be more like present yemen than present day Saudi Arabia

R325. I wouldn’t conflate the book with season 3. It’s kind of a mess that way.

I like Aunt Lydia but I think sometimes she is a bit mean to the girls.

[quote]R324 Aunt Lydia was and always will be a cunt.

Everyone deserves a second chance.

[quote]R325 zero birth rate and society would simply stop existing,

Not for decades and decades, though. Gilead is a recent development.

it's all angels on the heads of pins, but I'd disagree

In the series it's male infertility causing the drop.

Last season, they had that young black commander whose wife was pregnant. I wondered if that commander will ever be brought up again.

Didn't the government guy tell Serena Joy that she could get fertility treatments in Hawaii?

yeah, all dropped

In the book Gilead is a white supremacist state. Black people were called 'The Children of Ham' and 'relocated'. I'm guessing the producers decided that would be too "problematic" today.

I think it's not just about the representing of racism being problematic. Part of it is about - in this day and age - including more people of color in productions, giving them acting jobs, opportunities to make money and further careers on a par with white actors, and showing a full range of people for audiences to identify with. Even if it deviates from the novel's original premise, not all modern people want to do projects that exclude people of color from really participating. Or watch them.

The race issue in the book is a minor point. The main conflicts in the story are about women in society being screwed over by men, and christianity playing a part in that . . . No?

The last episode referred to racism. When Lydia is talking about assigning handmaids, she explicitly stated that one of the couples won't accept a handmaid of color, so Gilead isn't all hunky dory for people that aren't white..

June kills the black ones outright, clearly

[quote]The race issue in the book is a minor point.

You think that, then you didn’t read the book

R336 The race issue isn't the main theme of the book, but when it's explicitly stated non-whites had no place in Gilead, it's an unavoidable part of the story.

I didn't say it's not part of the book - only that it isn't dwelt on. Nothing in the plot hinges on it. This makes it a minor point.

Not sure I’ll get through the episode. When they were all chanting “crybaby, crybaby” it felt like this show was jumping the shark.

May have hit a wall here.

It is still an extremely well made show: beautifully filmed, produced, and with some excellent acting performances. But it is a decidedly different show, even compared to S2, and except for sharing the main characters and the universe, has very little or almost nothing to do with S1. S1 which is Atwood's source material was a cautionary tale that seemingly surreal and dystopian universes are not that far removed from reality, if we are too complacent to spot the warning signs. The character of June was simply an embodiment of someone living a normal life, probably never thinking that she could experience such a nightmarish fate in her lifetime, and that season was abound with flashbacks which were very foreboding with little details indicating how the society around had become more radicalized. It was a very timely and a courageous message to send in 2017, as we were all reeling from Trump getting elected.

The show gradually turned into some sort of Wonder Woman-like quest of a brave, impossible to intimidate June fighting the power. The whole background story of how Gilead came about was dropped, in favor of focusing on personal sagas of a couple of main characters ("Not Without My Daughter!") How did a socially and technologically advanced society descend into the madness in which a social structure like the one in Gilead was possible is a far more interesting story, at least to me, then watch June try to come up with some other scheme how to get her daughter, only to return to superficially locking horns with Serena Joy (when will we see a pool wrestling match?)

R342, the book is pretty clear about this form of state sanctioned abuse

Can't watch that ugly Scientology woman.

then don't

slap some faces viciously!

R242. That’s from the book, though. I think you’ll find this in Chapter 12 or 13?

^ R342 Sorry, my error

At least Janine has an eye patch now.

^^^ Yes, but she was not allowed to bedazzle it. Gilead destroyed all Bedazzlers, it is their worst crime by far.

It seems like they are out of ideas this season. That whole episode (released today) was largely pointless. There's more plot armor around June - again attacking Mrs. Waterford. The doctor won't report her, of course (maybe this part was believable since he knew her mom, another doctor back in the day). And then June's delusional attitude that she's going to get every baby out of Gilead rises again. I'm not really sure what is supposed to be happening this season. An entire episode in a hospital room is not much plot progress.

So June will end up being the Pied Piper of Gilead? More like the Holly Thorpe of Springfield (CBS daytime soap watchers will catch the reference).

I stopped watching after the 5th episode.

She’s going to do it FOR THE CHILDREN now? What about FOR THE WOMEN? This show really has jumped the shark.

CAN WE PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!

Awww .... all June needed was a little good old fashioned [italic]mansplaining[/italic] to get her back on track again.

PRAISE!

Fucking Hell, that was excruciating. I don’t know why I bother watching anymore, it’s like watching paint dry.

At least with paint drying you can huff really, really hard and get kinda high.

So for those in the know, does this technical fit to be called a bottle episode?

Everyone else gets eyes and fingers chopped off for less than what June gets away with, How many people have died because of her stupidity in this show?

[italic]AND HOW MANY MORE MUST DIE ? ? ?

Jeanine is working my last nerve. She’s well past her sell-by date. I hope she gets shot in the head so we can see her red eye patch drenched in blood.

Red eye patch drenched in blood.. redundant, no?

Red hides stains well.

I guess what I meant was the blood would be a deeper color than the color of the eyepatch. We’ve already seen that in previous episodes where the handmaids have been shot or beaten up.

They really should make the handmaid’s attire red with leopard spots of darker red so blood stains will blend better when they get shot, stabbed, or menstruate.

Well, all the fashion designers were killed, so...

R363 I think she'll be one of the characters to die by the end of the series. We know she has mental issues and she'll try to get her daughter back again and will get finally get killed in the attempt.

God, I hope you’re right, R369.

A lot of you would puke if you read the reddit thread. It's horrid. They LOVE Jeanine first of all. They think the last episode was artistry - "truly" showing what a "slow descent into madness" really looks like... I don't even want to link it here. I have no idea who these crazy fans are that think this was some kind of artistry.

There was an extensive diversion about "sharps containers not being like that - why did Gilead redesign the sharps containers? Why didn't they re-cap the needle? You don't re-cap needles? " for about 100 posts.

At the bottom, there are some low-voted comments about the fact nothing has happened all season and this just added to the nothing.

[quote] nothing has happened all season

Aunt Lydia SANG!

So is the plan for June to become the Harriet Tubman of Gilead, sneaking children out of the country under the cover of night along some kind of Underground Railroad?

R373 June will get caught and other people will die for it. The usual.

Yep, rinse and repeat. That’s what this show has been reduced to over time. How about some more flashbacks about the tipping point which led to Gilead? Like, was a nuke ever used?

It's just too unbelievable. I just can't get over Christian extremists with aesthetic taste. Have you ever seen any religious society look stylish since the 17th century?

R373 Yes. This was alluded to as points in the book. The "historical footnotes", if you want to call them that were they had no idea who June actually was and that she used alternative names to protect everyone. Her tapes were found in an army footlocker in Bangor, Maine in the ruins of a house. One theory was that she had become active in the underground after Nick arranged her removal from the Commander's house, but told her the word "Mayday" and that she was safe. That was the end of June's story.

Did she save children? Escape to England? Nobody knows. June is a mystery. That Gilead slipped into multiple civil wars and apparently war with Canada led ultimately to a competely different set of nations on what had been the US and Canada, told from the perspective some 150 years after June's story.

R375 The tipping point was the assassination of the President and execution of the entire Congress, with a military takeover. This religious takeover in the absence of any government followed shortly after. It's pretty clear she modeled this on Iran's revolution, substituting an invented Christian extremist cult as a stand in, much as the Puritans would have served historically.

In the book, they executed everyone: Lutherans, Quakers, Catholics, Jews, Muslims. Blacks were all relocated to "Homelands" in North Dakota.

[quote] an invented Christian extremist cult

Why would she need to do that?

[quote]In the book, they executed everyone: Lutherans, Quakers, Catholics, Jews

I think it says in the book Jews were accorded special status as “Sons of Jacob” in the early days of Gilead and they had the choice of converting or emigrating to Israel. Many of them left, but others pretended to convert or refused to and were hanged when caught.

[quote]r377 In the book, they executed everyone: Lutherans, Quakers, Catholics, Jews, Muslims. Blacks were all relocated to "Homelands" in North Dakota.

[quote]r379 I think it says in the book Jews were accorded special status as “Sons of Jacob” in the early days of Gilead and they had the choice of converting or emigrating to Israel. Many of them left, but others pretended to convert or refused to and were hanged when caught.

Also ... after Moira escapes The Center, I thought she went to an adress she remembered a Quaker family lived in. (She tells this to June when they are reunited at that secret brothel, Jezebels). I think Moira had memorized a bunch of helpful names and addresses from when she worked with a womens group at some point before women were seized ... maybe it was for Planned Parenthood? All the workers had to memorize the names and addresses of supporters rather than keep them on (incriminating) paper.

The people at that address hide Moira for a while (?) though now I can't remember if the original Quaker family still lived there.

R379. It turns out in the “historical footnotes” that one of the two commanders was responsible for that labeling, and also setting up the deportation of all the Jews to Israel. Except, they sank the ships in the ocean.

Yup.

[quote]Except, they sank the ships in the ocean.

oh yeah, I forgot about that

[italic]in the Epilogue, Professor Pieixoto reveals that many of the emigrating Jews ended up being dumped into the sea while on the ships ostensibly tasked with transporting them to Israel, due to privatization of the "repatriation program" and capitalists' effort to maximize profits.[/italic]

Has anything really happened this season....? You could have skipped all the eps and not missed much plot progression.

The only storyline I’ve found interesting this season is Emily escaping to Canada.

Gilead trying to get the baby back, however, is fucking stupid.

I am officially through with this show now. Can’t see how they’ll ever get to Season 6.

I more interested in the refugee stories at this point.

A nuke was alluded to in the book, wasn’t it?

Yes, Gilead used nukes to help take power. Thus the colonies, radioactive wastelands.

I never got that, but the book does directly refer to colonies that are radioactive dumps

R388 R390 there’s multiple references to biological waste and inferences to nuclear waste. Gilead had multiple ongoing civil wars; I don’t believe the book makes clear whether this was domestic or foreign or whether it was a weapon at all. By description, it could have been nuclear plant failure.

Anyone watch episode10? I didn’t get the ending with Serena and the commander

Was this in reference to Serena’s previous trip to Canada? That was the thread where the Canadians were looking for a high ranking source. Now it could be one of the commanders

I think there is going to be some kind of Mayday attack on Boston area of Gilead after the plans to sew the handmaids' mouths shut.

R394. I thought it was a reference there to the veils we previously saw in the DC episode.

What exactly was the doctor examining after June had sex with Capt Lawrence? Cum?

To ensure she had opened for the lord, of course.

[quote]r396 What exactly was the doctor examining after June had sex with Capt Lawrence? Cum?

Yes. And probably some sort of puffiness and engorgement from friction, etc.

Why didn't she just find a cucumber or something (I assume all the dildos were confiscated) and have him jerk off and put the cum in there? They didn't have to have actual sex. I am surprised he could even get hard under those conditions.

It’s a bit of a point in the book, at least. Any sex except for procreation is a sin. You can go to the wall for it. All homosexuals go to the wall, regardless.

In the book, all these characters would be killed for causing too much trouble.

Waiting patiently for Meloni’s character to stick his cucumber in Fienne’s character’s mussy.

R402 I'm thinking that will happen in the season finale.

Meloni just oozes sex appeal. How do his costars not hump him continually.

They should started -off season 3 with episode 10. They wasted 9 hours on bullshit

[quote]r399 Why didn't she just find a cucumber or something (I assume all the dildos were confiscated) and have him jerk off and put the cum in there? They didn't have to have actual sex.

A twist might be that she did something exactly like that, which we see in flashback. As it stands, we didn't see the actual ACT ITSELF.

(I do wonder how many cucumbers they'd have lying around a bedroom, tho.)

I wonder if Bradley Whitford negotiates to not show the actual sex scene.

Not only for his reputation but also so he wouldn’t have to climb on top of that she-beast Moss.

I don’t watch this but I’ve heard it’s jumped the shark. Agree, or disagree?

Yes R408. Season 3 is awful, but I’m too invested in it now to quit watching.

Me too r409

For me, June has become the least interesting character in the series. I want to see more of Serena, Aunt Lydia, and Emily. Also, I'm curious about the Chris Meloni plot line.

We haven’t seen any of the Canadian characters in a few episodes, sadly.

They should do a series based on that storyline

I have a fantasy where I have a threesome with a straight couple, with me roleplaying as Offred and the wife roleplaying as Serena Joy, and the husband roleplaying as the Commander trying to knock me up. I posted an ad and even offered to bring the bible, but I didn't get any responses :(

The Swiss should broker a deal where the Canadians offer the baby back in exchange for Gilead giving up Aunt Lydia for war crimes. I’d love to see the refugee Handmaid’s testifying against her while she glowers at them from the stand. Very much like how the Jewesses testified against the SS women in the various trials after WWII concentration camp liberations.

This scheme of June’s to smuggle babies out of Gilead is preposterous. And of course she will stay behind to try and kidnap Hannah.

Here’s the thing: They’ve supposedly been in Gilead for five years now? Wasn’t Hannah like 5 or 6 when she was taken? She’s spent half of her life with her new family. Let it go, June. Save yourself.

[quote] The Swiss should broker a deal where the Canadians offer the baby back in exchange for Gilead giving up Aunt Lydia for war crimes.

I guess what I've never really understood and what I think the show has sucked at is determining the scope of someone like Aunt Lydia. Is she responsible for all Handmaids in Gilead? Or are there presumably numerous Aunt Lydias? Are there ones in every town? The way she inserts herself in the lives of the Handmaids we've seen, I doubt she could handle that many more. Are the others just not in need of such attention?

I agree this season has sucked and this show shouldn't have been stretched out over so many seasons. It's the same thing over and over again. June hosts a non-binary poetry reading while some poor lady gets her hands cut off for using a thermometer. It's absurd.

[quote] It's pretty clear she modeled this on Iran's revolution, substituting an invented Christian extremist cult as a stand in, much as the Puritans would have served historically.

Hasn't Atwood been vehement that Gilead is not based on any of the Muslim theocracies? Is that just her being PC?

[quote]Let it go, June. Save yourself.

Shhhhhhh.

All you can eat scones for June's new Walking Partner if you push her ugly ass in front of a moving bus!

R417. That’s a bit unlikely as she writes explicitly about Iran in the “historical” footnotes section. She wrote the book in the aftermath of the Iranian Revolution.

Y'all are a bunch of bitter ol' bitches!

[bold]#TeamJune

I like the way you think, R414.

stupid long-winded palavers one after the other, I hate this show

Episode 11 is LIT!

So the plot actually moved forward r424? Only took all season.

Just as some in the royalty threads underestimated Our Meghan ... too many here underestimated June.

[italic]SUCK IT, BITCHES!

I wonder if next season will be a war between Canada what's left of the USA and Gilead?

That was one hell of an episode!

Any new eye candy this season?

Does Commander Stabler show his ass?

^^ [bold]Ofstabler

R431 His role is important and stunning. You will be sorry if you don’t watch this.

[italic]"Lie down....face down."

R428 I think the war will start next season. I hope Serena is somehow punished.

Serena will most probably try to play herself off as a victim, and broker a deal on the grounds she facilitated getting Commander Waterford into Canada's hands.

I hope there's a juicy trial where they turn on each other in court.

[quote]I hope there's a juicy trial where they turn on each other in court.

That would be fun.

Finally something actually happens. Shame they wasted 10 episodes to get here though.

THO.... there's always the chance Serena knew what was pending, and sold Dear Husband down the river.

She just might be in on it - -

Stabiner needs to shake it!

Serena can use her chopped up finger to bid sympathy.

"I was the victim here!"

Where can I get one of those magical blood removing carpet cleaners?

(Spoilers)

I know a lot of this show stretches availability here and there, but someone the size of Elizabeth Moss killing Chris Meloni with (essentially) her bare hands (and a pen? Or what was that?) was hard to believe...on top of them having a crematory-style furnace downstairs ... in a brothel.

Anyway... too bad he won't be fucking Fred up the ass but I guess Serena did it instead.

Stretches *reality I mean

[quote]r422 Where can I get one of those magical blood removing carpet cleaners?

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Do you have to own a Martha to get one?? Think what it would do on ordinary dirt - -

I definitely think Mrs. Waterford sold Mr. Waterford up the Swanee.

I'm sure the clientele at Jezebels get a thrill from killing hookers every now and then, so it's not a stretch to have a furnace. It is very weird about the carpet cleaner though - I want one!

I want a cleaner AND a Martha to operate it.

the martha scene with vacuums was the best of the season

They need to market that appliance as a tie-in product: The Martha.

They have the technology! We SAW it!!

Damn we never even got any Meloni ass!

Serena must have set up Fred. Lock them both up!

Figures that this is a DL icon now.

It looks like the Marthas are the true bitches not to mess with in Gilead.

I know, right? Tough ass bitches

what was that weird fundie house they went to

Speaking of Marthas, I wonder if Rita will be written out of the show given what happened with the Waterfords. I also wondered about Rita's life before Gilead. We know her son died in the war, she never said what side. If he son died fighting against Gilead/Sons of Jacob, then Rita should get into revenge mode and escape to Canada and kill Serena.

Very tacky of Serena to give Waterford a kiss-off screw before handing him over to the Canadians.

I was at the gym today and saw one of the African-american admins come in with one of those industrial strength vacuum steam cleaners and I immediately thought, “oh, no! Was it another commander?”

^^^ I hope she only gives him hand jobs and scratches him up with that prosthetic pinkie.

Do they have full-frontal male nudity this season?

Why would they kill off Meloni? He’s evil and sexually ambiguous and that makes good drama!

he got his chance in OZ

[quote] Why would they kill off Meloni?

He's too hot for Gilead.

i want. that fuckin', CARPET CLEANER!

I can't believe they just killed off Chris Meloni so quickly. Why even bother laying the groundwork with his flirtation with Fred if that is never going to be brought up again?

Fred is a fucking idiot, he obviously knew he was near the Canadian border, it didn't occur to him that the guy was leading him across it?

They should have at least shown Meloni's character fucking a guy.

I agree about Meloni, R465. Chekov would have been pissed, and now I've lost faith in the show's writers.

Meloni's character was probably just there to demonstrate the hypocrisy of Gilead. However I have a few issues with them killing "the pervert". It probably wasn't intentional but it was vaguely homophobic.

VULTURE: I wasn’t sure about that scene where Commander Winslow is teasing Fred, flirting with him, touching him and rubbing up against him. I know some people saw that as a sign that George was making sexual advances toward Fred. But I wondered if he was just playing mind games, using his sexual power to put Fred in his place, because we don’t see that happen again.

MELONI: Aha! Good! I think it was intentionally left, or at least I intentionally left it, ambiguous. This is a guy with many appetites. Take that for what you will.

I think Meloni's character was going to put it in June's ass, he was gay. I learned that from the book Scruples, the guy would only do her up the ass then she found out he was gay.

[quote]and now I've lost faith in the show's writers.

Now?? After June blasts her way through a season like Rambo killing everything in her path??

What's with the dark circles on June? Even with her makeup on at Jezebel's she looked like shit. I feel like I know every mole and zit on her face with the closeups.

I agree with R472 about the closeups. They feel suffocating; and too personal.

It's a refusal to present June as a sex object. You're encouraged to see her as a real person in a stressful situation.

It's the opposite of what's done to Margot Robbie as Sharon Tate in ONE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD. The actress isn't supposed to be a mere fantasy figure.

I'm not comparing June to Sharon Tate; nor do I expect every female on the the screen to present themselves as a sexualized being. I simply don't enjoy having a microscopic view of the inside of Elizabeth Moss' nostrils.

[quote]They feel suffocating; and too personal.

the book is told in only first person narrative so too close and too personal is definitely the tone of the book, the directors here clearly just went with that

[quote] I simply don't enjoy having a microscopic view of the inside of Elizabeth Moss' nostrils.

shucks

I'm beginning to have a love/hate relationship with all the overhead camera shots. They are simultaneously artful and overly precious.

Indeed, it often feels like an art project.

Hope Serena gets to keep that Benz convertible as part of the deal she will make with Canada! That ride worked for her!

Serena's in for a shock when they don't fork over the baby.

^^^ They should just pull a King Solomon on her and give her half a baby, after all isn’t that what those bible thumping Gilead lovers would do?

good one

This lasted three seasons already?

Good grief!

I think Serena will get the baby back, but the reunion will be short lived. Serena will get arrested for something by the Canadian or remaining US government or Gilead somehow manages to find a way to make her pay for selling out Fred.

The baby has a name. It's Nicole.

Serena Joy, I WAS that little girl.

Is this the last episode of the season?

Next to last

R489 - thanks.

I'm a little confused...why did the Commander take June to Jezebel's? Why was June talking to the Asian bartender? If she didn't know him, wouldn't that be very risky? Why did the Commander give June the gun at the end of the episode?

The writers have lost their way. Nothing makes sense.

I love the new costumes.

The Commander took June to Jezebel's because she asked him to so that she could arrange for getting the kids out of Gilead. June was talking to the Asian bartender because a Martha told her that he helped with smuggling and would do anything for money. The commander gave June the gun because he knew he was going to bugger off and run away and she would need all the protection she could lay her hands on.

Actually, it all makes sense.

R493 - thanks for the reply.

R493 That did make sense to me in the scene except when June offered paintings from MOMA. I would think being in Boston/Cambridge the commander would more likely have paintings from the Museum of Fine Arts or the Gardner. I always assumed NYC was obliterated in the wars, but don't remember exact details from the book or earlier seasons.

More problematic is one of the artist she dangles is Pissaro, which is not someone I would associate with MOMA. According to the MOMA website there are 18 exhibitions linked that did feature works by Pissaro including Pioneering Modern Painting: Cezanne and Pissarro 1865–1885 June 26–September 12, 2005, which was curated by his great grandson. But the only online work by Pissaro that looks to be owned by MOMA is a print and no paintings are listed. I'm unsure why the writers would chose to include him and not do the simple research to see if they actually owned works by him.

Pissarro tends to be an Impressionist that Art Historians glom on to and in many ways he is more important for how he supported other artists such as Cezanne and Gauguin and that he was Jewish. He's not someone that the general public necessarily gravitates towards and is high Impressionism, rather than being embraced as a modernist and in MOMA's collection. Now if she said she had the Scream and Starry Night form MOMA to offer, I would understand that, but the choice of Pissaro and why she would hope that name would be a motivator bothers me as a student of Art History.

r495, you need to relax.

I think she said Picasso not Pissaro.

June's just being a LYING SACK OF SHIT!

Very likely, she’ll probably get more black people killed

R497 I went back and watched it again with CC and she says a Picasso first, but ends with Pissaro. She does say it’s like living in MOMA’s attic, not that they came from MOMA so at least there’s that since she also says Rembrandt too. So it’s her ignorance of what art would be in MOMA more than the writers saying it came from there. But still, Pissarro is a strange choice to include in this list, so much so I almost feel like it’s an Easter egg if this show did that.

Paloma Picasso is on this season? What role does she play?

R501 She was posing in the pictures, but she melted in one when the house burned down.

R502, damn! I was hoping she would create a perfume based on the show (in a bottle shaped like a Handmaid)

Commander Waterford is going to make it back to Gilead alive, because the epilogue of the book says that he was killed in a purge. BTW, we’re not going to get a tidy conclusion to the story. The epilogue says Waterford’s time was the “early” period of Gilead when things were more lenient, which is why the purges happened. There’s a more strict “middle period” and then a “late period” where things started to collapse. They don’t say how long but my guess is approximately 50-70 years. The epilogue also tells us that refugees from Gilead might have been sent back from Canada due to extradition treaties. June could be sent back if it seems like she escapes, the book never makes it clear what happened to her. The movie had her living alone in an isolated trailer in the wilderness, presumably over the border, but it was a made up ending and doesn’t have a source in the book.

The TV show might not follow the book's ending..

[quote]r504 Commander Waterford is going to make it back to Gilead alive, because the epilogue of the book says that he was killed in a purge.

I thought the epilogue didn't say conclusively the figure the academic identifies was definitely Fred. It's left open as to who June actually lived with.

Records were destroyed

How will it end? June's husband walks out of the shower and she tells him "Honey, I had the strangest dream..."

R508 If that happens I hope there is full frontal nudity.

Me too, he’s hot

And it better be erect, R509, I love him

Wow they moved the plot about one inch forward all season. The finale was no different. Hulu really wants to stretch this out to 2023...but it would be nice if a plot was moving ahead rather than just things happening to people here and there that don't add to much.

Cunts

Under His taint

^The finale is next week. But judging by the preview maybe they don't get out, again....

it’s going to go on and on and on, relentless dreariness. I’d love to see them wrap it up, one way or another.

HUGE explosions.

I just watched episode 12. Can someone here share your thoughts on why Canada would allow Serena to visit with a baby that's a product of her crime? She helped Waterford rape June. I know it's just a tv show, but it is all so far-fetched.

It seems like that was the easiest way to get Serena, Fred, Moira and Luke in the same place.

I think there is a chance the Canadian government will demand a DNA test of Fred and Nichole. When it's revealed he's not the father, Serena loses her chances of getting the baby back.

When will they face slap her?

I think there will be a war. At least I hope so.

I hope they treat the men better this season.

R521 . Last season when Serena was in Canada there were protests and there was a scene of a little girl asking Serena if she was princess because of her clothing and the little girl's mother wasn't too happy being around Serena and gave her a dirty look. The Canadians against Gilead and the Americans living there aren't going to be so kind to Serena while tries to get her "daughter" back.

Hang her

Serena will probably fuck that Tuwillo dude and I don't blame her, he's hot.

[quote]R518 Can someone here share your thoughts on why Canada would allow Serena to visit with a baby that's a product of her crime? She helped Waterford rape June. I know it's just a tv show, but it is all so far-fetched.

She delivered Commander Waterford into their hands. They have to go through the motions of seeming to consider returning Baby Nicole to her, as that's the only reason she complied with them.

We don't know what separate conversations she had with the Canadian reps leading up to this. They probably said something vague like, "We will consider your application very carefully. But first you have to do something for us."

I think she'll stay in Canada and rebrand herself as a high profile survivor of the Gillead Attrocities. Books, speaking engagements, etc. (She has that lopped off finger.) This will help her seem like a more reasonable option for raising Nicole. Maybe.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you, R527.

Why is everyone besides Serena calling this baby Nichole? Didn’t June request that the baby be called Holly?

June said “ call her Nicole” to Emily at the end of Season 2

How has June not been executed by now? Talking back to a Wife, trying to stab her, trying to run away, even just giving dirty looks, all punishable offenses.

Plot Armor, r531

Fred kept her alive because he's obsessed with her. Lawrence kept her alive because she was useful. Aunt Lydia has protected her because she's proven herself fertile.

[QUOTE] Aunt Lydia has protected her because she's proven herself fertile.

so did Janine, but Aunt Lydia didn’t have any trouble with almost executing her.

did june kill mrs lawrence?

R535 Mrs Lawrence overdosed, but June didn't call for help and let her die.

Mrs. Lawrence had become a liability.

(Plus, she was pretty miserable and depressed. So maybe it was a mercy, really.) (June might be relocated right away, however, which would be ... awkward for all those muffins.)

June dies.

The Commander suspects June allowed her to die too. But had she gone to the hospital who knows what she would have revealed.

Did she die from too many muffins?

Is that even possible r540?

Nope, from sniffing June's poon!

we need more lesbionics

I'm surprised they didn't have an Emily/Moira romance this season.

Serena joy is going to go down on Moira in the discotheque.

Frankly, I'm kind of glad the season is wrapping up next week.

You and me both, r546.

Shoot them ALL

The scene with Josh and Cmdr. Waterford seemed a bit farfetched, to say the least.

I like this show a lot, and it's head and shoulders above most of the trash out there. But the believability thing for me is:

Why would June leave the Jezebels hotel room barefoot, and with blood on her face? I imagine the Martha would have said, "Let's take a minute to get you cleaned up."

R550 Yeah I get that that should have been done even with the state of shock June was in. But I found her walking through the hall to be disturbing, as the unphased commander she passed didn’t seem to think a bloody, beaten up women was anything out of the ordinary at Jezebels. Sure that guy and the sex slave he was with were might have been super drunk or high to notice, but I think June’s negligence to clean herself up was intentional rather than sloppy writing this time.

[quote] How has June not been executed by now? Talking back to a Wife, trying to stab her, trying to run away, even just giving dirty looks, all punishable offenses.

It is hard to justify. June seems to get away with everything and somehow manages to persuade everyone to risk their own safety for her.

[quote] How has June not been executed by now? Talking back to a Wife, trying to stab her, trying to run away, even just giving dirty looks, all punishable offenses.

It is hard to justify. June seems to get away with everything and somehow manages to persuade everyone to risk their own safety for her.

They will die

[quote]the unphased commander she passed didn’t seem to think a bloody, beaten up women was anything out of the ordinary at Jezebels.

Perhaps because a bloody, beaten up woman is not anything out of the ordinary at Jezebels.

I wonder if they will sacrifice all the children just to show the brutality of the Gilead regime. Although it would be difficult for June to come back from that as far as the character goes.

She can’t die, there’s two more seasons left.

I think we’ll see June escape to Canada but then get extradited to Gilead. We won’t know the outcome after that, the last we’ll see of her is being handed over to Gilead authorities and put into a van, and the van will pull up to the new Rachel and Leah center (or whatever temporary space they are using) with Aunt Lydia brandishing her prod, waiting on the driveway for her.

[quote]Aunt Lydia brandishing her prod

Pics please.

June would go to the Wall or the Colonies. I want to see her kill Aunt Lydia.

I'd actually be fine if June were written out of the series. Right now I'm more interested in what will happen to Serena, Fred, Lawrence, Emily, and Aunt Lydia.

They will die

So many here would be sent to The Wall for duplicate posts.

[bold]#LeaveJuneAlone

The epilogue specifically mentions refugee extradition treaties between Canada and Gilead in the later periods, anyone we think is safe in Canada probably isn’t. Atwood wrote this in her book, the show writers are probably not going to ignore this.

So I expect the children will be sent back, as will any government defectors like, possibly Serena though we don’t know if she’s defecting yet. The Handmaids probably would be the last to go back since there is international awareness of their rapes. Maybe the slave labor operation in the Colonies would be shut down and a for-profit multi-national company strike a deal to administer the clean up. The former slaves could be evacuated to Canada for treatment of radiation and heavy metal sickness.

[quote]R564 Maybe the slave labor operation in the Colonies would be shut down ... The former slaves could be evacuated to Canada for treatment of radiation

[italic]”Her smile lit up a room...”

Serena is interesting. She was depicted as much older in the book, much angrier. A woman who wanted what she got, only to realize she never thought it would apply to her.

Faye portrayed her more like how I imagined her in Atwood’s book

I don’t believe extraditions will take place in this series at all. Atwood’s novel is from another time. The very idea of anyone other than the Waterfords being extradited from Canada back to Gilead would turn off a lot of viewers.

R566, same here, older and used up, and cynical. This Serena joy is FAR too much a believer in her own cause

Faye is great in r568. Natasha Richardson (Offred) is so wooden and dull. I actually can appreciate Elisabeth Moss' crying, nose running, and facial pores more in light of seeing her portrayed by someone else. (But seriously, less nostrils please).

Faye should have directed the series

She'd have thrown piss in everyone's faces.

The modern workplace isn't like that anymore - -

Indeed, the scandals would have been terrifying

Why can’t Faye play Mrs. Waterford’s mother?

Because she's uninsurable, due to protection needed for the crew's safety.

Like Kevin Spacey - but different.

a cameo would make the show

Now I want to see the Natasha/Faye 1990 movie. It's interesting that they made the handmaid more transactional rather that assigned. Serena Joy's greenhouse in previous seasons is hands down more fabulous than the Faye version of spritzing the seedlings while smoking look rather drab.

Thanks for the link, R569. Hulu has spared no expense in this production.

A couple of years back someone made this youtube comparison video of scenes from the 1990 movie vs scenes from season 1.

it works

here’s a fun thought, June escapes to Canada and joins forces with Serena in trying to break down the Gilead structure. They form an uneasy partnership, for different reasons, but each aware of the other’s abilities. June gets to keep her baby of course, and uses this to constantly torture Serena. But June will be living as a refugee, and Serena probably accorded the rank and comfort of a diplomats wife, albeit one of an enemy nation.

Canada can’t be TOO much of an enemy though, Gilead is a superior power and the borders are open.

I ses moira and Serana joy hooking up

Was June an Econowife before she was captured and became a Handmaid?

The escape scene has them wearing normal american street clothes so she and Luke May have just been on the lam

No econowives aren't adulterers or drug addicts or political etc.

R584. Their marriage was invalidated. Luke was previously married. All divorces were repealed, so their marriage wasn’t legal under the new regime. They committed adultery, so they’d swing for that.

In the book, they planned a picnic and were going to make a run for border. They’d bought expensive, forged papers to get them out of the country.

I get that she was an adulteress under the new laws, but it seems like they managed to live outside the roles of Wife, Widow, Aunt, Martha, Guardian etc so I was wondering if she was an Econowife first and then when the details of her marriage emerge they condemned her as a criminal. The system seemed well established by the time June entered it, so how did she escape it all along?

Until she had a child Gilead didn't particularly give a shit.

Like all bureaucracies, once they caught on to her fertility, she was in their sights and fell into the system.

Good point, R587. What did Luke do for work, for example? And when were the color coded dress codes enforced? Unless they made a radical change suddenly and that’s why Luke and June were trying to escape.

Right. If it was a sudden radical change then how come the whole infrastructure was already tightly in place, including the economic model of slave labor in the Colonies.

New thread for when you're done with this one.

This season has been a big disappointment. Terrible writing, unbelievable plot lines. I've also seen enough of June's facial expressions to last me a lifetime.

The last episode wasn't a cliffhanger but I actually felt sorry for the Commander who lost his wife.

I think June let her die not only because her manic episodes made her risky, but because she felt sympathy for her and she knew there would never be a consistent supply of anti-psych meds for her and the future was bleak for a caring woman like Mrs Lawrence.

They were going to ship her out with the kids.

R587 I don't think so, but it's an interesting question. Econowives were the lowest caste of wives, combining the role of Martha and Handmaid if they were fertile and assigned to Guardians.

If I remember the book, June was captured and taken to a Center as soon as they determined she was still fertile, young and reasonably attractive to be of interest for breeding for the Commanders.

Elizabeth Miss is reasonably attractive. Natasha Richardson was an absolute knock-out.

She was very distant and numbed looking. but that fit with the character better than the crazy cunt thing that moss has going

I think the Commander gave his wife the fatal dose.

R597 Interesting that she played both Offred and Patty Hearst, both ultimate victims.

June killing the Commander at Jezebels was understandable. Her refusal to help save the wife of the Commander was just plain cold. Her character has gone to a point of no return. I am not routing for her anymore.

Emily killed a Wife too. Seems justified.