BREAKING: House Dems Demand Six Years Of Trump’s Tax Returns

MSNBC ‏ Verified account

@MSNBC 43s43 seconds ago More BREAKING: US House Ways and Means Cmte. chair sends letter to IRS seeking 6 years of Pres. Trump’s personal and business tax returns; asserts cmte. is trying to determine if IRS is properly auditing the tax returns of sitting presidents and vice presidents

Ways and Means Chairman Richard Neal has given the IRS one week to hand over six years of Trump's tax returns.

Here's the article:

6 years? That's all? The mother fucker has been cheating on his taxes for at least 40 years.

Trump, per WH pool, says he’s “not inclined” to adhere to the new demand by House Ways and Means that he release six years of tax returns.

They're getting desperate after the Russia collusion hoax fell apart. Meanwhile, China is taking over the world.

I just want to know if he will have to do it or not.

R6 is an idiot.

R6 is just a ray of deplorable sunshine:

-- Why Shouldn’t Hillary Run Again?

[bold][quote]Because she's a corrupt piece of shit cunt who deleted 30000 emails AFTER she was subpoenaed (who does this?), and who'd get us into world war 3 immediately upon entering the White House.

[quote]No thank you to this morally bankrupt rape victim shamer who colluded with Russia, selling the uranium to Putin as Secretary of State after her HUSBAND went to Moscow and was paid half a million for a "speech."

[quote]Did I mention she rigged the primaries? Don't forget Haiti, and Seth Rich! [/bold]

Give us a good reason why we shouldn't be able to see his taxes R6. If there's nothing suspicious about them, what's the big deal?

Trump said he would release them after the election. Every POTUS candidate has shared their's. He should abide by the standard and his own words. I hope Congress can subpoena them without his permission.

CNN commentators just said that Trump might not have any say in whether the IRS turns over his taxes. But isn't the big question really about whether Trump has someone working on the inside of the IRS who can whitewash his taxes and make everything look legitimate?

His tax returns? Trump organization's? All the kids'? Wifey? The defunct foundation's? His own returns might be quite dull.

Very desperate. They've really managed to make themselves look pathetic. The republicans are going to have fun using all their own tactics on them in return. It really is a witch-hunt.

I probably pay more taxes than he does.

Especially this year.

Melabia’s pussy stinks.

You have to admit that Trump is good at this game.

He got away with not releasing his tax returns and played everyone like a fiddle.

Bernie is also refusing to release his tax returns.

Same excuses over and over.

no. R14, you look desperate and pathetic.

Can they force his hand or is this another shit situation?

WOW Rachel's got it...En Fuego.

DL attorneys - no doubt this will wind up in court, so is there a bar or a standard the Dem Committee needs to meet in order to get them? For example, would they need to state specifically what they’re looking to find vs. just asking for free and unfettered access to all the tax records? Would a judge go for that? Does the IRS even have a policy on these kinds of requests?

Listen - you know, I know, we all know he’s been cheating on his taxes for decades, but is anyone else worried about the precedent this could start? Just seems when we try and get them on their level, they tend to skate and the precedent is used on us and bites us in the ass.

It's a federal law that the Chairman of that one congressional committee has the authority to ask for any person's returns and the IRS must comply. There is no ambiguity about the law and nothing to be litigated.

R23 is correct, and the Chairman is seeking the returns of Trump’s primary corporations as well. I suppose it’s possible that Trump will order his own attorneys to sue the IRS to stop it from releasing the returns, but I can’t imagine how they would argue that case.

Thanks R23! I was obviously unaware of said federal law. I will still be surprised if Trump doesn’t try some court action to block their release - hopefully unsuccessfully and not in front of a Repub judge.

[quote]The republicans are going to have fun using all their own tactics on them in return.

How would that work exactly, since Democrats have always willingly released their own tax returns?

Another House Committee chair (forget which one) is preparing to subpoena the accounting firm he uses. So, a double-pronged approach.

[quote]It's a federal law that the Chairman of that one congressional committee has the authority to ask for any person's returns and the IRS must comply. There is no ambiguity about the law and nothing to be litigated.

As requested by R22, attorney here. It's rather obvious R23 isn't also a lawyer, otherwise he'd know the opposite of what he said is true: there are no ABSOLUTES in law, another way of saying EVERYTHING is (or can be) ambiguous to some degree. While I haven't read the law in question, it's an effective certainty Trump's lawyers will seek an emergency order to prevent the IRS from releasing his returns - and they're likely to get it. The letter of a given law is less important than how it's been used in practice, and Trump's counsel can argue (validly) that its legislative intent was *not* to use it against a sitting president. I'll hazard a guess his lawyers will also argue something to the tune of Democratic congressmen have no knowledge of any *specific* tax returns for a given year that may contain false or fraudulent reporting, and they're effectively seeking approval to go on a fishing hunt without knowing what they'll find. Given that such fishing expeditions are generally forbidden in the world of civil (and civilian) law as well during standard discovery proceedings, the judge could issue an order denying the request on this basis.

He could also do so on a general separation-of-powers precept. While obviously Congress acts in a hyperpartisanized manner nearly all the time these days, explicitly targeting the head of the executive branch in such a fashion could very well be deemed an unconstitutional abuse of power -- and since any such decision on the topic would end up in the Supreme Court's lap, it's a very safe bet the entire conservative bloc would side with Trump.

Wanna know who *can* request every goddamn tax record Trump (or anyone in his family) has ever filed? The Manhattan DA (or even a US Attorney) after obtaining a warrant for it, the instant Trump exits the presidency. Now THAT is a request the IRS MUST fulfill - and also one that would both fall under the committee's existing purview (requesting the returns of civilians, not elected officials) and not raise any constitutional issues for SCOTUS squashing.

[quote]I'll hazard a guess his lawyers will also argue something to the tune of Democratic congressmen have no knowledge of any *specific* tax returns for a given year that may contain false or fraudulent reporting, and they're effectively seeking approval to go on a fishing hunt without knowing what they'll find.

Apparently the reason it's taken so long to request the tax returns is that the Ways and Means Committee has been trying to establish a justification for obtaining them that will pass judicial muster. Presumably they've come up with something, though who knows how effective it will be.

[quote] It's a federal law that the Chairman of that one congressional committee has the authority to ask for any person's returns and the IRS must comply. There is no ambiguity about the law and nothing to be litigated.

It is for this very reason that every President has been transparent and willingly handed over their tax returns during their candidacy. Dump didn't expect to win so he never saw this day coming.

I've always wondered if Sanders also doesn't expect to win, which is why HE won't hand his returns over, either.

R28, the president has no executive privilege to protect his tax returns from disclosure. There is no reasonable expectation that his tax returns would be shielded from review by an agency of federal government. House Committee has broad constitutional authority. Dump should lose unless there is some funny business with the court.

There does not seem to be anything the legislative history of the law that suggests that the President is entitled to special deference or protection. The bigger question may be whether, once obtained, the tax returns can be released to the public. That was an issue that came up with Nixon while he was President. Nixon, under public pressure, eventually voluntarily made his returns public.

r28, I am a lawyer, and the statute in question was passed by Congress after the Teapot Dome scandal for the specific purpose of obtaining a President's tax returns (Rachel gave a good history of the statute tonight). The statute and legislative history are unambiguous. Sure, they can try to argue their case before a Republican judge, but it is so clear-cut that the judge would reveal himself a partisan hack if he ruled for Trump.

[quote]Dump didn't expect to win so he never saw this day coming.

[quote]I've always wondered if Sanders also doesn't expect to win, which is why HE won't hand his returns over, either.

I think it's more to do with the desire to hide secrets that is behind both Trump and Bernie hiding their tax returns.

Bernie is still refusing to release his returns.

He is stalling and lying. Why anyone falls for this useless codgers lies is beyond me.

[quote] but it is so clear-cut that the judge would reveal himself a partisan hack if he ruled for Trump.

So?

As R28 realistically states, there are no absolutes, because often the outcome of processes are decided by people ... who can decide one way or the other, with or without the authority or legal right to do so. These people can be the SCOTUS, lower level judges, DA's, or KY county clerks. Which is why even if the Manhattan DA has the authority to request civilian taxes (are elected officials explicitly excluded in the statute?) with a court order, it can still be litigated. Power, connections, and especially money can throw a monkey wrench into the most firmly established process.

Seriously can a Bernie fan explain to me why he can't share his tax returns?

[quote] WOW Rachel's got it...En Fuego.

Yes Charlie Brown. Kick that football again.

The old coot is allegedly drawing social security while pulling in a government paycheck. Double dipping and trying to hide it. Amongst other things.

Allegedly.

It's simple, r38. He has something to hide.

R12. Exactly. The "trustworthy" people were fired, or left, to be replaced with enablers and who will protect him. His appointments are to keep his protective bubble intact.

#WhatAreYouHiding

He's been a little BUSY, r18

And DL Fave Sue Sarandon should hide her tits and show HER Tax Returns.

Why don't some of these older women know that no one wants to see saggy wrinkled tits. Cover up Sue!

Why doesn't a SJW working at the IRS get in there and leak this stuff? Where's our Chelsea Mannnig or Reality Winner?

R18, R31, R35, R36, R38, R40, R41, and R43 are all the same troll, deflecting from Trump to Bernie.

Link to where Bernie has refused to release his taxes, or made excuses for why he cannot.

Eric Holder (not the Nipsy Hussle killer) was found in contempt by Congress for failure to hand over Fast and Furious documents - and nothing ever happened.

he is a delusional, egotistical narcissist he doesnt want people to know his real networth.

Trump had a few billion in real estate assets but there is no doubt these have depreciated with the Trump brand attached. He isn't all that cash rich, but he is plenty rich, and has been for a decade. Money launderer.

Sanders refusing to release tax returns.

R52, why don’t you start your own thread about Bernie?

The Trump family business is (was) branding their name. Now it's shit.

Post-presidency is going to look a lot different for the grifters.

Were his taxes available to mueller for examination? Are they addressed in his report? Important that we know whose interests he is representing in the name of the United States.

Jail is a MUST.

SS is in no way shape or form a DL Fave. I wish we wouldn’t use that term lightly.

Maybe this time. I’ll be lucky.

Trump realized a long time ago that he could get away with almost anything he wanted.

And unfortunately he was right.

This is almost as bad as Benghazi, even if he didn't pay taxes, it was because he used legal loopholes.

"BREAKING: The House Oversight Committee is sending out a subpoena to an accounting firm for 10 years of Trump financial records. The firm has already agreed to deliver all of the documents, once they receive the subpoena."

No wonder he's been batshit crazy all week.

Do we have a link to this news, R61?

I didn't want to link Fox News but Washington Post requires subscription...

Can you copy and paste from WaPo? Sorry, I won't give Fauxnews any clicks.

[quote]he intends to subpoena President Donald Trump's accountant

Hopefully we will get something more definite than "intends to".

What are the chances Trump has been playing the Dems all along by refusing to reveal his taxes? What if there's nothing revealing in them, but he refused knowing it would send his opponents on a goose chase that ends up making them look stupid?

They’re only going to show he used loopholes to pay zero taxes, and that’s abiut it.

I'm sick and tired of Democrats going through the motions of getting somewhere, but never actually ARRIVING AT ANYTHING. Everyone knows that you won't get your requests honored, be it the request for his taxes or his financial records, so have the subpoenas ready.

Every bit of political news is like a cliffhanger at the end of a TV episode - but wait, not yet, there's more to come!!!

[quote] What are the chances Trump has been playing the Dems all along by refusing to reveal his taxes? What if there's nothing revealing in them, but he refused knowing it would send his opponents on a goose chase that ends up making them look stupid?

Ask Rachel

Who do you think will laugh last, R69, Maddow or trump? Let's say around November 3rd, 2020.

Trump has no money and is such a bad credit risk, he had to go to Deutsche bank in the mid 90s to get loans. Because US and U.K. Banks refused his business. We know that he has overvalued his real estate also.

They're not just getting his tax returns, they are getting the financial documents the accountants used to fill out his tax returns. They are subpoenaing the Mazar accounting firm. I read the firm is complying with requests for documents.

Pelosi I believe hired forensic accountants in January.

If this is any help, it's a link about the subpoena that's not behind a paywall and not on Fox.

Not a whole lot of reporting on it, for some reason.

Here's another source. The treasury refused requests by the committee to turn over documents and missed the deadline. Mazar said the will cooperate fully once the get the subpoena, which will be Monday

remember a product is only valuable when people think it is, trump is just a snake oil salesman

[quote]Everyone knows that you won't get your requests honored, be it the request for his taxes or his financial records, so have the subpoenas ready.

I heard someone on a podcast say House Democrats need to be less Ned Stark and more Littlefinger.

Just assume they're awful people and act accordingly ahead of time.

BREAKING: tRump sues House oversight chairman to block subpoena of his finances

"House Oversight Committee chairman Elijah Cummings called a lawsuit against him by Donald Trump “baseless.”

Trump sued Monday to block the committee’s subpoena to an accounting firm for the president’s financial records.

“There is simply no valid legal basis to interfere with this duly authorized subpoena from Congress,” Cummings said Monday, according to Reuters. “This complaint reads more like political talking points than a reasoned legal brief, and it contains a litany of inaccurate information.”

“The White House is engaged in unprecedented stonewalling on all fronts, and they have refused to produce a single document or witness to the Oversight Committee during this entire year,” he added."

Link:

My best guess is Trump wins this one in the courts.

The Dems need to develop policies that appeal to an electoral base instead of harnessing the sitting president.

I agree with R79.

Constantly fighting with Trump and trying to find dirt on him is getting us nowhere.

The only way to beat Trump is by picking a strong nominee and a set of policies that can beat him in 2020.

Of course, R79 doesn't want Trump bothered since he is a Trumpster.

- New Democratic Primary Poll: Biden, Sanders & Buttigieg Lead

[quote]I'm a Republican leaning Trump. Buttigieg is the only one I'm afraid off beating Trump. But I think the Drmocrats should call not only for the abolishment of the Electoral College but abolish primaries on their side and award their nominations on a calculation of intersectionality oppression points.

[quote]R161, the Hillary voters in the McCain Obama election are probs a very different group than in Hillary Trump election. Back then Hillary was running as the white working class alternative to Obama. Those West Virginians liked her. Much of that group finally left the Dems during the Obama years. By 2016 Hillary was running on a platform that coal was dead and her former supporters were deplorables.

[quote]Ben Carson would have been a great president.

[quote]R267, wouldn't they be worried Hillary might die before the election also? I mean they did have to chuck her into a van like a piece of meat.

[quote]The Party needs a revolutionary vanguard to select the nominee. The members of the Democratic Party are obviously too stupid to choose their own candidate.

[quote] unprecedented stonewalling

Last week the press was saying Muller was given every document he requested. Plus of course the stuff from Cohen et al.

So basically, a sitting president is immune to most laws. Incredible that no one can find something illegal to stick on this corrupt orangeman.

Not seeing how Trump wins this in the courts. The emoluments clause in the constitution makes it clear that the the President's finances are worth oversight, and the House has had oversight and access to ANYONE'S Tax returns by law for many decades. If it even made it to the Supremes, really not seeing what their counterargument would be.

Me, either, r84.

The law is pretty cut and dried. This is just a stall tactic. It won't work. The law is clear.

The law is super fucking clear- we will see the taxes!