Why are gays so mean to each other?

Hee hee!

Gays basically act like grade school girls.

Ditto, OP.

I never felt 'welcome' in the gay community. I never fit one of their well-defined niches, so I was an object of scorn.

It's how we roll OP. Toughens us up. Have you ever met a drag queen that you weren't just a little bit frightened of?

Drag queens scare the shit out of me!

We are not...as a whole,only a few bitter ass drug addicted pos are that way.I blame their upbringing,parents never taught them how to love.

Yeah, drag queens get that attitude and wear it like a tight dress.

We are not a community

There only thing we have in common is a lust for dick and butt

Drag queens don't bother me. It's all part of their act. They were ostracized so they double up on the attitude to show they don't care.

I guess it's the same with gays. We try so hard to show our superiority when it comes to our physiques, sense of style and class, and intelligence.

Reality: All existential threats to gay men come from straight men, be they drunken groups, single violent homophobes, conservative policy makers, or their indoctrinating religions.

DL: omg gays are so mean and catty i love straight men lol

We're mean because it's FUN and most straight people are boring and don't get the joke.

I don't get it either. And it's even more obvious here on DL - there are some TV show threads I won't even go in anymore as the gays there are so mean and bitter, and self-hating in some cases. On the other hand, I go along swimmingly with the straight guys over on Reddit. Never had an issue. Though there is sometimes a disconnect with the references and they quite often take my jokey posts too earnestly. And yes, I'm aware of the fine line between jokey and bitchy and outright nasty, and DL is too big on the latter.

Last week a flaming queen came into my showroom to borrow samples for a meeting with his boss. I had a hunch he was only in my shop because I was local and he needed something fast. Anyway, I spent an hour with him and he selected lots of beautiful stuff, promised to return them the next day. Called the office ten days later asking for my samples to be returned and someone brought them right over. Called a few days later, his first words to me were (in his best Mario Cantone imitation) "I returned the samples". I told him I knew and was following up to see if he was interested in anything. He responded, "NO, MY BOSS HATED EVERYTHING!!!!". Really? You loved the stuff in my store. He's not obligated to buy anything from me, but the level of nasty and bitchy permeating from this ass was ridiculous.

Shop bottom vs shop bottom.

OP I think it's because too many in our community are very immature. Some others take the fact that they didn't have an easy time of it growing up out on others. They're still miserable and one thing that makes them happy is thinking they've made someone else miserable.

Bottoms Hating bottoms , water is wet, the sky is blue

Straight women do it to each other too. At least you guys are funny about it, not just cunty.

[quote]I never had a straight person demand that I don't wear a condom.

I never had a Gay man tell me I shouldn't use a condom. Perhaps it is [bold]you[/bold] that is looking for seedy individuals that is the real problem.

Learn to interact with common folk.

R18, gays guys on apps constantly demand that tops not wear condoms. Where have you been?

That's like saying men in darkrooms don't like you to wear protection.

Again, perhaps it's time to interact with regular people.

You can easily say insecurity, self-hatred, envy, etc., as the main causes of why gay men can be truly cruel. It is definitely a combination of those emotional feelings, but it is so much more complex. Many people attack first before they are attacked, and in my experience, it's a rather abrupt decision based upon emotions that hit them at that moment. Some gay men can't accept being constantly happy, so when they see "one of their own" who appears to be always happy, they attack them out of the belief that the constantly happy gay is being phony.

It takes a lot for each of us to become content in our own skin and to really like ourselves and the lives we live. An old friend once told me that because I chose to reach out and grab my dreams, which included a lot of travel, that my so-called circle of friends were constantly bitching about me always planning, never content to let one trip be the end of it. The revelation of this came clear when things began to turn sour for me because of other situations, and I heard a lot of gloating coming from people whom I had thought were truly bosom buddies. This hurt more than the situations I was going through, but gave me the determination to rise above of my situation and get my life back on my terms, dumping many of these people in the process.

Because of this, now that I live in a different city (having gone from West Hollywood to Manhattan), I have become much more particular of who I become friends with past the usual bar acquaintances, because people are basically self-centered and obsessed with self preservation which takes away their humanity. I learned that for every nasty, evil bitter queen, there are ten decent gay men who hate that behavior. I don't miss my old life, recall the good times with some pleasure, and hold no grudges. I just wouldn't want the people whose lack of souls became very clear to me back in my life under any circumstance. Hoping that they've found some peace, but I wasn't about to let them steal mine.

It's a level of bitchiness around which I've just never been comfortable or seen the point of. I have a great sense of humour and have never found the cattiness funny...it's just petty and usually pretty damn nasty. I live no more than a 15 minute walk from the Gaybourhood here in Toronto and would sooner visit a burn ward that go to our " Boy's Town".

Straight people have always been more accepting of me than gay people have been.

If I hear "I'm gonna take away your gay card!" because I don't follow some stupid drag queen reality show, or worship some "gay diva" or whatever, I'm going to start punching people.

Fuck you. I'm 110% gay. Stop trying to kick me out of the gay club!

Straight people accept me as I am. Why can't gay people? Why must I conform to some stereotype?

I just spent a weekend in Wilton Manors which epitomized this OP. The bitchiest bartenders and wait staff. Bitchy people at the bar. Maybe it’s the combo of older and gay - but it scared me off of living in such a gay place. Really nasty vibe all around. Kinda disappointing. (But then maybe it’s because they’re stuck in Florida)

ALL men relate by insulting each other. We just do it better.

All the butchiness covers up a deep sadness

^ bitchyness

Frankly, gays are scared shitless of straights. Gays fall over themselves being kind and nice to straights while a second later being cruel to other gays.

It's nauseating

Stunted emotional growth

Fear of rejection

Insecurity

Queens hate other queens just like fish hate other fish.

R21 I went through exactly the same thing when I was in my thirties. I'm very picky now and do all the travel I want

[quote]Queens hate other queens just like fish hate other fish.

But don’t fish eat other fish?

Gays tolerate heterosexuals because we have no choice.

They tolerate us because it’s the right thing to do.

This is why I can’t watch Queer Eye with those queens bawling over some women or straight dude learning to love theselves. You know if it was some chubby, older, or not so physically attractive gay male, they’d be snorting and laughing over their foofoo drinks at him til he was a quivering mess.

There are a lot of gay men at work and I don’t hang out with any of them. I’ve tried, but it’s too much of a hassle. More often than not they are super bitchy/mean, high drama, or terribly self centered. They also believe that even just basic politeness is a come on. The other day while working on a project, I made small talk about the local gay community with a gay co-worker. He went out of his way to mention he had a PARTNER multiple times, so often it was ridiculously obvious what he was doing. I felt like saying, “Look, congrats on having a PARTNER, but I’m not hitting on you. However, I do notice you are on Grindr all the time. Is your PARTNER on there as well?”

That’s why I tend to socialize with straight guys. They have tbeir own quirks, but it’s just the easier option. Wish it weren’t that way, but it’s easier being pragmatic and acting accordingly.

"the gays there are so mean and bitter, and self-hating in some cases. On the other hand, I go along swimmingly with the straight guys over on Reddit. "

I just bet you do.

Meanwhile, you might want to look up the word "hypocricy."

Why are gays so mean to each other?

1. Self-loathing. We hate in others what we despise in ourselves - from flaming behavior to catty bitchiness to the man-going-up-into-the-man itself.

2. Slamming the door behind you. In other for there to be a "top" of the pyramid, there needs to be a large base on which to stand. Rather than holding the door open, some gays slam the door behind themselves after making it. In order for there to be an in crowd, there has to be an out crowd.

3. To feel better about themselves. If you criticize and bully other people, it: a) deflects attention from one's own flaws; b) affirms, mostly to oneself, that as bad as your life is, someone else's is worse; c) draws positive attention to oneself as the cynosure of certain circles of other similarly damaged people.

It's funny that, in my feed, this thread is immediately adjacent to the "OMFG !!!!!!! I'm watching David Venable on QVC right now and he's HUGE GIGANTIC FAT ASS!!!!" thread.

R11 Being mean is actually not fun. Being friends with mean people is not fun either. But they will only ruin their own lives because others can stay away from them. Being a grown up gay man means you make your own choices and decisions. My choice has been not being a part of those mean nasty childlike gossip guys circles.

Yeah being around mean people is tiring. My mom’s family is like this and I don’t have anything to do with them.

I get all my cattiness and meanness out here on the DL.

I’m nice as can be in person.

In real life I’m nice. Well... most of the time. Sometimes I’m a real bitch!

If you can't figure out why some gay men are mean to each other, you are an idiot.

I find most gay men fairly contemptible. There are a few wonderful exceptions.

[quote]Meanwhile, you might want to look up the word "hypocricy."

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

All gay men are competing against each other for mates.

This thread is yet another chance for bitter wallflowers to bash anything they see as 'too gay', which is disturbing on a gay site.

"queers" hate gays, OP.

They're GAY, GAY, GAY, but hate everyone like themselves.

r36 I don’t think the closing the door is out of spite. I remember when I was first coming to terms with being gay and shutting someone else down. I wasn’t being mean, I was terrified that helping him up wasn’t possible and that instead I would be dragged down.

I know better now, and am ashamed of my feelings and actions back then (I wasn’t malicious, but I was unkind). It was never about trying to be better than my fellow gays - only about trying to survive.

What I don’t know now whether older gays, like me, are better about this as we’ve lived longer and have a better understanding of the world and care less about people whose opinions we don’t value, or younger gay men who have not experienced the full on hatred of our whole selves that so completely infected how we behave in the world.

Oh! Let me help you!

Gays are unkind to each other, more as a rule than an exception. Once, online, a guy was insulting about me under a pic on my bfs feed. I repled openly saying 'well thats me told...lol....sorry im not perfect'. To which he replied 'im so sorry, u look amazing, im just jealous'. I was glad i responded with humour and appreciated him backing down, cos his nasty comment wud have played on my mind. Stupid, i know, but im a sensitive guy who was thought to say nothing if u cant say anytging nice'. What im doing on DL is a mystery lol. But as a nice guy, considdered handsome, but not the most masculine..and a bit too groomed perhaps, theres sub groups of gays who are horrible to me. . Muscle jocks who sedm to hate anyone remotely camp..and bears.

The people who treated me the worst when I came out were other gay people. There were 2 in particular. This happened at a small college in the Midwest during the early 1980's. The odd thing is, they were both on the Gay Unity club board! Looking back, I believe they were so hateful because they hated themselves and were jealous of me for some reason.

[quote]I get way more hatred and stinkeye from gays than I ever do straights.

Odd because they're so nice to each other on here.

and link a gay vlog or gay marriage photos and they're nothing but kind, generous and supportive.

[quote] I never had a straight person demand that I don't wear a condom.

Maybe because you weren't trying to fuck them? Just a guess.

Any time I am in a social arena of mostly gay men I feel like I’m in an alternate universe of adult teenagers. It’s the most hostile and bizarre feeling, because I don’t have any issues with getting along with people at work or in my personal life. However, there I suddenly exist only to the extent that I am perceived as physically/sexually viable or a potential romantic partner. You feel either an aggressive inclusion or exclusion based on the degree to which you measure up to accepted norms.

As someone who grew up bullied and excluded for being perceived as different and therefore gay, being thrust into this parallel hostile environment in the adult world was both disappointing and damaging, as ultimately I started to internalize this rejection. You end up bouncing off all the fears, traumas, and hang ups of the dysfunctional individuals that surround you like a pinball, never finding any real healthy place to find a sense of inclusion or belonging. This only increases as you get older, since you have a very short shelf life in a world that worships youthful beauty.

Finally a few years ago I realized the sense of well being and inner happiness would never be found in the gay “community”. No one there was invested in my well being beyond what I fulfilled in regard to temporary social, sexual or romantic fulfillment. I realized few if any would be there for me if it were inconvenient. I realized how much I had sacrificed and lost in the search for a sense of true love and acceptance where none truly existed.

I am happy for anyone who has found personal fulfillment in the gay world, but if I had it to do all over again, I would have paid attention to my own pain and realized that despite a shared sexual orientation, true happiness and acceptance would never be found in the gay world, only within. I should have done the difficult work on myself instead of wasting my life constantly seeking cheap external validation from people who would never really care about me as a person at all.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

All of our friends are str8 guys, we have zero homosexual friends.

When I am in the presence of a truly nasty queen, I put on a very serious, cold, emotionless face, look them straight in the eye, shake my head, roll my eyes and just walk away. I refuse to waste breath and energy on deliberately nasty people, especially when I'm just out trying to have fun. I've literally had to tell people confronting me about my reaction to them that they were sucking the energy out of the room with their nasty vibe, and had people come up to me afterwards to thank me for saying what they've been wanting to say for ages.

None of the gays you lot complain about hate you as much as you hate yourselves.

Being nice to the stupid and incompetent just enables their stupidity and incompetence.

[quote]This is why I can’t watch Queer Eye with those queens bawling over some women or straight dude learning to love theselves. You know if it was some chubby, older, or not so physically attractive gay male, they’d be snorting and laughing over their foofoo drinks at him til he was a quivering mess.

This is true. I hate that show because it’s just another excuse to make gay men slaves of heterosexuals.

Heterosexual men simultaneously cockblock us and expect us to be okay with that.

R54, Thanks for writing. My first encounters with "the gay world" were all negative. I have kept one gay friend but we only see each other about once a year. I was lucky to fulfill my romantic and sexual needs through chance encounters, and being a lesbian those led to relationships, some lasted years. Even to this day I am completely uninterested in any sort of "gay community". It just doesn't work. The amount of internalized homophobia is immense. The cattiness. The stupidity. I look for common interests and that works in friendships. The people I meet tend not to be homophobes, even the older ones. Sometimes I meet gay people through work or while travelling, and many are great. Chance encounters are nicer.

i am a straight woman & am continuously fascinated with the emotional parallel's that i identify with here. i was pretty when young & was attacked by roving gangs of ugly girls. home was very bad, always & i had no self esteem & let people shit all over me. now my life is a garbage pile but i'm still trying as i suspect death may not be the end & so suicide is not an option. my family is/was very mean spirited. i am mean spirited. all those years of poorly masked put downs that came in the form of 'jokes' have done an outrageous hatchet job on my self esteem to the point where my hands quiver & my face turns magenta in public because i feel like such shit all the time. also, jerks come into my environment (live with boyfriend, pay little rent) & bully me still in subtle ways. i can identify with these descriptions of catty behavior. so very damaging when you don't know enough to stand up for yourself.

Most gay men are so shallow and superficial and totally ego-centered. They're essentially teenage girls trapped in a man's body. They're terrified of growing old (i.e. no longer being hot) and rejected by other men for not being masculine enough, just as they were in high school. The gay culture/lifestyle is pretty sad. "Gay" is such an ironic word to describe these men.

Tradition, OP.

R54 - your post hit a note with me. As a 49 year old attractive white male, I was once considered “the catch” in the gay community and spent all of my 20s and 30s seeking that external fulfillment which never lasted very long. Once I hit my mid 40s that adoration from the gays quickly dissipated. (I chose not to become a roided-up daddy, which seemed to be my only option as an elder gay.) Now as I look back I realize all the time wasted on those superficial follies, but as an eternal optimist look back fondly on all the travel, parties, adoration, and hookups! I know I could be so much further in my career had I not been so focused on the validation I sought and so easily received, but choose to not have any regrets. Now I just throw myself into work and not do the “gay thing” much anymore. To sum it up, “gay community” stopped for me as soon as I had nothing to lust after.

R63 Another issue is the number of gay men who only have a select amount of hobbies and do not diversify themselves with varied types of friends of all ages and races, with young gays clinging onto their college aged girl pals (and thus being mommied by these types and unable to stand on their own two feet without them) and very judgmental towards those who do not meet their social approval, even though they themselves are overwhelmed with self-hatred. Cliques close off their doors to anybody who does not meet the queen bee's approval, and dare anybody go against that to invite someone in who doesn't get her majesty's OK. I've had to stand my ground in regards to invasive spaces with so-called friends insisting that I invite someone over whom for some reason I just could not trust, and later, my reasoning was proven to be correct.

I don't claim to be the best judge of character, but I've seen many different variations of Jack McFarland, Emmett from "Queer as Folk" and the smarmy kiss-ass backstabbing phony I refer to as Bud Frump, the character from "How to Succeed" that was basically the office bully and used his clout as nephew-in-law of the boss to keep his job even though he was a complete slime ball. In my social world, these types are often the biggest attention whores, drama queens and troublemakers, and it is difficult to hide my contempt when they show off their true colors. We can't all "get along" because we are far too different in ethic values and moral beliefs, and the self-hatred of the three types I mention makes them instant trouble from the moment they appear. Life is too short to waste on people whom you find beneath contempt.

As I told two old friends, "I want my life to be more than just a scrapbook of drunken bitches I no longer talk to", and "I'm not a snob. I just don't want to hang out with people I abhor."

R62 - hang in there honey! I know situations can seem bleak but I think you have a good heart and you’re obviously a survivor. I wish you all the strength I know you have within!

I’m going to a gay man social group gathering for the first time later this week. They meet once a month. I hope it isn’t a train wreck of emotional baggage claims. It supposed to be for “elder gays”. I’m 47.

Someone needs to inform gay men that IT DOES NOT GET BETTER, unless you're young, cute, and have a muscular body.

And white, R69, don’t forget white.

R69 I think THAT is the problem. It had nothing to do with external factors.

And not just white but white and not Jewish.

thank you so much R67 your kind words are helpful & much appreciated.

Just an example of an idiotic young gay man, the "bitchy queen" type: after seeing Grand Budapest Hotel, this young man was surprised that the main actor (Ralph Fiennes) could pull it off, as he had seen him in very different roles (I'm assuming Harry Potter). Young man goes on to voice this type of opinion in public, condescendingly granting RAFE FUCKING FIENNES his own personal approval.

I'd be ashamed to say something like that in front of strangers, he wasn't. My understanding is he was also cheating on and regularly humiliating his partner (a better-lookign guy!!) left and right. It boggles the mind.

Some refreshing honesty on this thread.

FYI, Financial coercion to be classified as domestic abuse

Bottoms are very nice to tops. Bottoms despise each other...destroy the competition.

Why does everything in the gay world essentially come down to sex? If you have no sex appeal, you are totally shunned and ignore, even belittled. Everything is objectified and fetishized. And no, it's not that way in the straight world.

You guys must have never hung around young straight men. They are ruthless to women they consider ugly....worse than gay men to each other.

I think the point is that young people, gay and straight, are ego-centric and shallow. But straight men tend to grow out of that and mature. Gay men only get worse as they get older. They become bitter and resentful that they are no longer prized for their looks and sexuality.

R79 true. Straight are also ruthless towards each other, they're some of the most nastiest, cattiest people Alive

Everything is a competition to them and they're also joking and belittling their bros calling their buddies "jokingly" pedophiles, gay, your mom jokes, ugly, fat , stupid, even when their none of the above

I was just joking, it's all in good fun bro!

R81 I meant straight MEN

R80 Female former beauty queens who haven't developed anything else aside from their looks tend to be like that too.

This whole thread is an example of gay self loathing. Straight people, especially straight men, are the the cruelest and most hateful people on earth. A gay man might roll his eyes and say something catty if you cruise him. A straight man, or a closet case, might kill you. Get some perspective.

People are mean in general. It’s getting worse all of the time.

A straight man might make your professional life hell if you're a woman at work who's refused his advances.

We're not just mean to each other, we're mean to everyone.

I'm a gay man, and if I had the choice between chilling with my male straight or gay friends, I'd choose the straight ones every time. They're just fun to be around and low maintenance. The gay ones are just so self-conscious and obsessed with labels and looks. They have no sense of humor about themselves. Totally toxic, and they're just catty beyond belief.

R88 is delusional. Only a matter of time before your straight male 'friends' decide that you're just a fucking faggot and ghost you.

r89, I think you're the delusional one. Straight guys, especially younger ones (i.e. under 45) are more accepting than you think. The couldn't care less about who I fuck. We enjoy each other's company, and have things in common like sports and a taste for beers. I can chill with them in a ratty sweat shirt and my my target jeans and they couldn't give two shits. If I showed up to an event with my gay friends looking like a slob, I'd get side eye and catty remarks the entire time. It's effortless with straight men. Takes too much work with the gay guys, and friendships shouldn't have to be that difficult.

You can never trust a straight man. They will always turn.

So I guess what it comes down to is that if you're a gay man and want friendships, you have to choose the lesser of the two evils...straight guys who will turn on you on a dime OR gay men who will belittle you and pick you apart until there's nothing left but a carcass. Some choice! Maybe there's something to be said for being a gay man who's a loner. The alternatives aren't too appealing,

[quote]even when their none of the above

Oh, dear!

☝️ Case in point

People on line (gay or straight or whatever they want to call themselves) are more apt to be hateful dogs to each other, simply out of cowardly opportunistic bravado. Hiding behind the keyboard thinking "I can say all the things I've always wanted to but never had the guts to because no one can find me or know who I am".

Why should gays be any different than straight people. You know why straight women prefer to hang out with gay guys? Because gay guys don't treat them like a like a piece of meat or second class citizens. Straight guys are as much mean heathers with their alpha male toxic masculinity crap as gay guys or women fighting over Queen Bee status.

We live in an insecure, status obsessed society where people want to show off and establish themselves in any way as superior. For some socializing isn't about appreciating each others' company and spending time with like minded people. It's about winning (every argument and dance off), about making yourself feel big by making other people (including friends) feel small (by showing off, insulting them, showing who's boss / Queen Bee).

All the guys talking about how wonderful it is hanging out with straight guys remind me of the Phillp Seymour Hoffman character in Boogie Nights

R97 - I wasn’t playing a “character.” That WAS who I was and why I ended it all.

I made the experience that when you are friendly the right people, you have things in common, are friendly to you as well. People with attitude, who reject you before you can reject them, are not worth knowing anyway.

You can create your own community by forming a group of like minded people who love and respect each other or you can obsesses about those who think you are not worthy of their love, respect, and their friendship.

Not all, or most, gay men are meant to be your friend. It takes a while, but all you need are two or three gay friends in life, one of whom of course is your partner. Finding your niche among gays can take years navigating immature, emotionally damaged and in a lot of cases just plain stupid men. It is no different then straights, except straight men are often bred to be violent. Add to the fact straight men are disgusted by gay sex is why you should avoid them. But the worst are closet cases...a form of pychopathy.

Words to live by.

R54 Thank for your comments, which appear to give many of us pause and reflect on our lives. My social gay life was a fairly brief time in my 20s when a partner at the time enjoyed having mostly gay friends. It opened up my eyes to my own gayness, that yes, I preferred having another man in bed with me, but that was as far as it went. I've spent the rest of my life with straight friends (both male and female) and have been very comfortable with it. Now in the eldergay twilight zone, nothing really matters and being invisible in terms of sexual attraction doesn't hurt. My dog loves me and she's a great companion.

The best way to meet gay men are sport and recreation clubs. The worst way is online, bars, and parties.

People need to be clear about what they actually want. Do they want to be happy or do they want to be popular?

When you want to be happy: Find like minded friends you have a lot in common with. Appreciate them as they appreciate you.

When you want to be popular: Do whatever it takes (flattery, buttkissing, spending lots of money to impress them, buy them stuff, etc.) to be liked by the cool kids.

It's nobody's duty to make you feel good about yourself (for free). Either you like yourself enough or you bribe and manipulate others to help you to feel good about yourself.

I always think of this song from "Into the Woods" when the gay world begins to seem to dark to really be happy:

Just remember Just remember Someone is on your side (Our side) Our side Someone else is not While we're seeing our side (Our side) Our side Maybe we forgot, they are not alone No one is alone Someone is on your side No one is alone

I have noticed bottoms are the bitchiest with other bottoms. It is just them trying to put the competition in their place. Same thing happens among straight females

As the only gay guy at work, I constantly have the straight women coming to me and talking shit about all of the other women to me. Then later they smile at each other like they’re friends. It’s really sad/funny at the same time.

As a 50something gay, I've noticed that young millennial gays think being funny is being mean and "throwing shade." Usually there is not an ounce of wit involved and it's merely mean. I love a good sarcastic bitchy line - but I will usually only do that with real friends I know I can safely joke with. The young gay men I know don't care if they know you or not - they will be vicious and see it as some weird sort of victory. I think they get this from RuPaul's Drag Race and other reality shows where the scripted drama and fighting and rude diary room confessions are highlighted and featured above real conversation. And this behavior happens regularly in a "recreational social group" where everyone is supposed to love one another and differences are celebrated.

I am almost 40 and have always been a butch top. Maybe a bit above average looking with a decent body. Cock is nothing too special, 6x5.

I have seen a little of the evil faggot behaviour, but not much, directed at me. I have seen plenty between other guys. I live in a mid-size city with a lot of gay guys and we are all at least aware of each other. I dress like a total douchebag and only shower every two or three days. Baseball caps, jeans, t-shirts, unshaven for a week at a time. A lot of you bitches would shriek in horror at the sight. And yet I mostly get treated well — because I’m a top and have that reputation. Bottoms are fucking horrible to each other.

I don’t like other tops much but I don’t go out of my way to demonize or back talk them or whatever. They piss me off a bit and 8 get jealous if I see them with a cute bottom I want.

[quote]The best way to meet gay men are sport and recreation clubs.

If you like sport. I'm not sure what the distinction is between it and recreation.

R109, you sound as if you are horrible to everyone you meet, top or bottom.

R107 I had the same issue with women. My looks of disgust didn't work. I finally printed out the biblical book of James Ch. 3, Vs. 1-12 on "The Tongue" and began pointing it out to them every time they tried to unleash their venom about someone on me. They assumed that being gay means being bitchy, but like R108 says, I only have a wisecrack when it is funny in an Eve Arden sort of way. Anything else is pointless and a complete waste of my time.

Other gay men are either social rivals to be vanquished or potential lays to be used and then discarded.

I was once seeing two ultra masc hot military tops at the same time. I introduced them hoping for a wild threeway. They had so much in common, or so I thought. They took an instant dislike to each other. So much for my threeway.

People who are too much like one another usually have zero interest in meeting and will actively avoid the other's company. It's worse if you introduce them, because now they're stuck with each other.

We have a realtor in the area who has that arch, queeny attitude.

I know a couple of people she's shown properties to and they'll never work with her again because she's so negative. She thinks she's clever.

R109 - I’d definitely bottom for you if I was in your town. Your cock is a little lacking in size, but if you know how to use it, well that goes a long way.

I love seeing the newbie twink being taken down when they think that they are being clever and bitchy up against someone who has been in the scene for decades. I'll never forget the warning one of them got when an old experienced gay man told the princess wanna bee, "Careful. I can crush you with my pinkie", which they did.

Oh fuck off you silly fags!

R118 stories like that are what makes the jubilant twink and the tired elder queen the exact same person. Gays are horrible to each other. So much so I prefer to keep them in very limited selected company.

Straights slaughter each other by the millions every year, but it's gays that are sooo mean.

Oh yes, they are the same. When I see an annoying twink I usually see the bitter, annoying eldergay down the line.

When I was younger, I enjoyed traveling solo because at the end of an adventure-filled day, I would find the local gay bar and hookup/socialize. Now that I’m an elder gay, I prefer to travel with friends because I just can’t be the sad old gay man at the bar anymore. Maybe I just give up and move to Wilted Manors. (Yes I meant “wilted” and you’ll understand if you’ve been)

The DL posters who overidentified with girls and women growing up (because they were intimidated by men and boys, sensing that their attraction to them was "illicit" and ended up focusing on the "safe" opposite sex instead) are the most annoying. They retained a preoccupation with women into adulthood (see the current post on "horrible mothers") and think and talk more about women than actual women do.

I have been mercilessly bullied by straight people and gay men and have gotten terrible treatment from lesbians. I try to be nice to everyone but I'm guarded and keep to myself (maybe this makes me a target, who knows) but I find it's easier to see the good in people. My partner is very judgmental about effeminate gay men and it bothers me. I used to adapt that attitude when I had a group of gay men I hung out with but it really wasn't me. We all do it. Adaptability is part of our genetic code to survive. Since I've gotten older, I just tend to surround myself with positive people and I ask my partner to tone down his rhetoric cause I don't want to hear it.

But, seriously, stay off of my bad side cause I will cut you.

I've met a few good gay guys in my almost 30 years on this earth, but when I first came out in my early 20's, I'll never forget going to my first gay bar and feeling so uncomfortable. I knew I'd never have the right fashion sense or the perfect body or anything like that and I just didn't care. I've found my own way to be happy and it's never come from bitchy gay men. My work has brought me my accolades and happiness and I have a wonderful partner who loves that I walk around in sweatpants and flip flops whenever I want to. He seems to think people are jealous of me and my "I'm not playing your games" attitude. I tend to weed people out fairly quickly if I get the sense that they're not good people or will present a problem in the future.

I've honestly just never been very competitive in any sense. I always just do the best I can and hope that what I present will be good enough for someone. That's really all you can do. If you try to keep up with the gay Joneses at the bars, you'll lose yourself, your money, your self-esteem, etc. It's not worth it.

When I first came out, it got back to my gay landlord that I was seen sitting in a video bar like a church mouse, quiet, alone and secluded from everybody else. I simply inquired why somebody would care so much to report back to him on my activities and why he felt the need to bring it up to me. Maybe I was tired. Maybe I just wanted a drink to unwind after my day without being bothered and didn't feel like socializing. I learned early on that some gays will set you up to try to make you look like a fool, simply because they really have no lives or other hobbies of their own. Within a few months, I had made some real friends, got a job working in the very same bar as a VJ, and became a bit of a local celebrity. Bar politics and queeny co-workers made me give up that part of my career after 5 years, but it amazes me that there are so many Gladys Kravitz's in the gay scene that like to stir the pot simply because they think it gives them power.

R127 - absolutely right. That “power” you speak of is the only thing going on in their sad pathetic lives. They usually end up lonely drunks in my experience.

R128 Very true. Thirty years has gone by since that moment, and while I have gone from one coast to another (out of the frying pan of West Hollywood to the fire of the West Village), I have gotten quite an education. I no longer refer to my bar acquaintances as friends until we begin to do things away from the bar scene, like go to the theater, talk on the phone, confide things to each other (mutual, not just one sided), and genuinely care about what is happening in each other's lives. I took the time to make the decision of changing coasts and exploring "watering" holes, and found one place where I could truly be comfortable and be myself without fear. I don't mind drunks too much, even the lonely ones, but I avoid the bitter and angry ones. My circle of friends are basically happy, decent mature people who know that time is fleeting and it is a waste to hold onto the anger many of the others that we see around us do.

That being said, there are those whom I try to avoid, not out of a judgmental feeling that I'm better than them, but because their aura is cold and nasty and self-centered even though they are obviously smiling to cover their tears and anger. I got rid of those tears and anger years ago over important issues, like losing friends and a lover to various causes, from AIDS to suicide to drug overdose to even one murder. We have the power of how we deal with our pain and loss and loneliness, and we can chose if we are going to live the rest of our lives in misery or find happiness in whatever way we can. Sometimes I feel the spirits of those I have lost looking down on me as if to congratulate me on taking the right paths in living my life.

The bottom line for people who feel isolated within the gay community is that there are plenty of different types out there looking for sincerity in their friends and loved ones, and nobody should think that the gay community is painted with one broad stroke. We use our own power to bring out the best in those we love, to be there for them in a cold and cruel world where we should be lifting those we care about up, not going out of our way to bring strangers down.

Agree-and bottom line there’s lots of nice people and lots of nasty self centered jerks in both gay and straight worlds

R126, your partner is very lucky.

And so true, r130! So true.

When I first came out, I was hoping there would be a gay community to support me as I was dealing with being out.

Nada. Instead men just thought it an invitation to sleep with me. I thought it was fun until I realized no one actually care enough about to ask my name.

For some gay men, they have friends merely as props. Once that prop is no longer needed, it is put away in the toy chest and usually ends up being given to Goodwill or Out of the Closet, or just tossed away. It is because of this I am glad that my youth has gone by and I chose friends based upon mutual interests. I look for certain qualities which creates a bond based upon shared ethics. If those moral fibers are not present, you are simply wasting your time. Physical attraction doesn't cut it anymore when you really have nothing more to say other than "your place or mine?"

Physical attraction is vastly overrated.

Have lost all tolerance for Cunt Variety Gays but the good news is political correctness allows that we can tell to fuck off at any time, even call them names; we are allowed somehow. I hope everyone finds that group of gay friends that don't fall into that cliche because they do exist. Don't tolerate anything less.

It bugs me because the worst offenders are clearly too afraid to go after anyone who might actually have hurt them (the school bully, etc.) and instead find the "weaker" (shyer, lonelier, whatever) gay and go after them instead. Unacceptable, unforgivable. Fight back.

R134 =

An acquaintance (who in other respects seems to be a fine, decent person) explained his theory about survival of the fittest in gay life to me, which I'm passing on. I don't subscribe to this theory, so don't shoot the messenger.

Gays are still marginalized and oppressed in this society. My friend feels that we need to lead with our intelligence, strength, authority. Unfortunately, many gay men carry themselves like broken toys or problem children: they are obese, poor, substance-abusing, emotionally unstable, overly loud, poorly behaved, poorly educated, poorly put-together. He will avoid anyone he suspects of any of the above and lavish attention on those who appear intelligent, well-dressed, affluent, in good shape, and well spoken.

It's snobbery, plain and simple. But he would respond by asking: why reward bad behavior? Support gay men who embody our best qualities, not our worst. Maybe this help explains the way some gay men think. I'm not sure.

It's not for me to say, but I've been called a hottie. I get hit on left and right wherever I go, both by men and women. I get free stuff and better service without asking for anything. And yes I believe physical attraction is overrated. I look for kindness in people. A good day to you, R136.

R137 Hmmm. Your acquaintance sounds like he is into eugenics, with homosexuality having nothing to do with it. I agree with his view that society is by and large, still homophobic. Not to the point that it was. Great progress has been made in many areas. There are still environments that are profoundly homophobic (yes, the very conservative and religious, any religion).

R132 I know someone who participates voraciously is present day hookup culture. He believes it is rude for hookups to exchange names: “It’s just not done.”

R140 How very Shane of him.

R140 Is he trying to emulate Maggie Smith in "Downton Abbey" with his oh so formal trick talk?

R137 men in general are "overly loud" it's actually an Alpha thing

Studied have show that on average, men talk louder than women while women talk faster than men

We used to love the company of fabulous eldersisters but, sadly, they have all perspired!

Yes, R143, but adult men shouldn't shriek. Or scream. Or emulate adolescent girls in any way.

I think you mean EXPIRED, R144, unless you meant to say they were sweating.

This idea that "men" are first-class citizens compared to any other human on the planet needs to die down. Alpha-what? Please.

"Maybe I just give up and move to Wilted Manors."

Wilted Weenors.

it's true. Look at the way gays attack gay celebrities while slobbering over Kathy Griffin

The only reason I know who Kathy Griffin is, is from a gay man who's a fan of hers. Then she's in many DL threads, but I don't think it'd have registered if I hadn't already known who she was. Yes, she's unfunny. Yes, her material is nothing but derivative (of other people's celebrity). Her type of content contributes nothing to mankind. There are comedians out there with very challenging material, intelligent people using their rapid-fire brains to make us see things that we otherwise wouldn't. She's not one of them.

Kathy Griffin is a cartoon character. Past the age of 6, there is nothing funny about her other than the way she looks. She's like Meg Griffin's long lost ugly sister.

I'm only mean to the slutty gays Op so about 98.9% of the gay community.

To hide their insecurities and feelings of inadequacy they attempt to throw the spotlight on someone else's apparent failings.

The difference is that heterosexuals deserve that kind of abuse and Gay people do not.

Gay men are generally so pathetic.

I live in Pittsburgh and tried joining Stonewall Sports. It’s the same bitchy, cunty cliques but dressed up as athletes. Though they don’t seem to understand that kickball and dodgeball are not sports.

Power mincers, r156.

I'm sure they would love tchoukball.

I am a straight woman, but I hear gay men talk a lot of shit about lesbians for some reason. I don't think it has to do with orientation.. People are just generally mean no matter how they identify.

Why is anyone mean to eachother? The magic ingredient is insecurity- if you are secure with yourself you wouldn’t be mean. Gay men, real housewives, teenagers, all mean stemming from their own insecurities

I don’t care who or what you are. If you’re mean I’m not gonna associate witcha.

I have said it before and I will say it again: if gay men attacked heterosexuals with the ferocity with which we attack each other, then there wouldn’t be a single country on earth where homosexuality was illegal.

I know the “why,” but I detest it. I have few gay friends.

If you want to see DEFCON 5 level mean gays, go to a primarily gay AA or similar recovery group. Anyone else witness that? You can feel the air stop moving.....

Oooh! Please share some Tales of Gay AA! Please!!

Gays are emotionally weak people, constantly pounded down by society. All we can do is turn on each other to prove we’re better than others.

My experience with gays in AA was not so much that they were mean -- but they were unbelievably guarded. The snob factor ("fear masking as attitude" as Roseanne once said so well) is annoying as fuck but can't see it changing any time soon. If ever.

R159 I worked with three lesbians last year and their hatred and disgust of straight white men especially was hilarious. Gay men don't hate lesbians as much as they have nothing in common. Like a dumb dog befriending an inscrutable cat.

What amazes me is that I know some gays who voted for Trump. I can’t understand why any gay would would not only vote for Trump ( and anti-LGBT religious nut job Mike Pence ) but openly boast about it.

R169 applause to the retarded Trumptard on her 500th mention of him this month. Die cunt, please.

R169 speaks the truth.

Leave her alone!!!

R169 Trump is very pro gay. I can't imagine why any self respecting gay would vote for any Democrat, who has and will continue to throw gays under the bus for their militant Muslim love/obsession, you know the ones that really want us thrown under the bus

Or off rooftops

R172

yes, Trump is so pro-gay, he stood next to the Brazil president and smiled and nodded when he said we were allies in out anti-LGBT agenda.

how stupid do you think gay people are? "Muslims in Saudi Arabia want to throw you off the roof", well guess who loves Saudi Arabia, you buffoons.

R173s ignorance is as vast as her rectum. Kindly STFU, cunt.

Why are gay me so mean?

The most recent responses to a thread that earlier had some very positive responses truly has sank into the depths of the mire. What had been a thread of hope has turned into a thread of proving the theory of the thread title to be true. The only thing refreshing about it is knowing that those posting positive responses obviously would have nothing to do with those posting vile attacks.

[quote]If you’re mean I’m not gonna associate witcha.

Sing it, sista!

[quote] It's how we roll OP. Toughens us up.

But say “queer” and you fall to pieces. Gays are babies.

Gay men have feminized brains (thus, sharing the same interests and hobbies as women), mixed with testosterone (fueling their sex drives). Whether gay men realize it or not, they are a ball of gender confusion, which probably fuels their bitterness.

Gays are masters of the human race. If a gay person does something to hurt you, 10 times out of 10 it’s because you instigated it, and therefore you fucking deserve it.

Instead of gays attacking other gays, we need to start attacking heterosexuals. We should be calling them stupid, fat, and ugly instead of each other. We should be yelling slurs at breeder couples who flaunt their breeder perversion everywhere. We should be getting locked and loaded to do away with the oppressor classes once and for all. We should be forcibly redistributing their wealth to our pockets. The time for a worldwide gay revolution is now. This second. This instant. Until gay supremacy is the law of every land, there will be no peace on Earth. Heil Nell Carter!

gays are too scared of straights to do anything against them

I only support other gays who are hawt.

[quote] As a 50something gay, I've noticed that young millennial gays think being funny is being mean and "throwing shade." Usually there is not an ounce of wit involved and it's merely mean. I love a good sarcastic bitchy line - but I will usually only do that with real friends I know I can safely joke with.

So, Boys in the Band was only showing the future where Millennians are the ones becoming mean and catty bitches while? Gays weren't mean to each other back then?

Sorry, where Millennials are the one becoming mean and catty bitches

It is a community of broken people who come from the land of the misfit toys. Gays today have no socialization skills, stay home glued to their gadgets, and when they do go out in herds of similars like them are nasty, bitchy queens whose self worth is based on looking like everyone else in their group, beards , fades , and limp wristed. The bottom line is they do not care about anyone else. Harvey Milk where are you?

r186, LOL! The LGBTQ Community is huge. You really claim that everybody looks exactly the same? Must have missed that memo.

I think since overt violence is no longer as socially acceptable, het men are now just more passive aggressive and have resorted to the verbal and emotional violence/abuse many women and gays are experts in.

Het men were always passive agressive towards minorities. Remember things like "Boy" or the pay gap between men and women who do the same job or gays being "girly men"?

R189 except the "pay gap" is a myth that's been exposed COUNTLESS times, and most women simply wont do the types of EXTREMELY dangerous jobs that could cost you your life that men do

Also almost every woman boss I've had has been terrible, can't handle pressure,resorts to crying, takes lots of vacation time, won't do the physical work and then, get this, a lit of them decide to "just quit" after they find a man, get married and have kids. After making employees lives hell of course....

At the job I'm at now almost NO ONE wants another woman manager, even OTHER women are like "fuck no, I'll quit!"

Give me a male manager any day

Some women bosses are good, others play both sides of the street (i.e. we’re equal unless it’s personally advantageous for me not to be).

I don't know about "feminized brains" so much as that the dynamics of the relationship change when two people find themselves objects of attraction. I see this in my straight male friends who are outgoing, friendly and kind until they see or meet a woman they find attractive, and they turn into conversely teenage boys unable to speak or angry incels unable to communicate. Of course, among my gay friends (including myself), we act the same way when seeing or meeting an attractive man, although I don't see the same animosity that straight men exhibit toward women — in most cases. Gay men who fuck and become friends are far more common than straight men who fuck a woman and then become friends.

For instance, I have a straight buddy from college. I've seen him through a marriage and several relationships and watched with sometimes astonishment and sometimes horror at how he treats women and how women respond to him. Many, many years ago, by happenstance, we had scheduled time off from work simultaneously, and ended up vacationing together. We both had a good time, but by the end of the trip, I realized that we were using each other as crutches; I can talk to any woman and become friendly very quickly. Night after night, we'd go out and meet people, share drinks or a meal, and as the evening progressed, after I'd broken the ice with the women in the group, he'd cozy right up and let me introduce him to the one he found attractive (or available). It became commonplace that he ended up hooking up with a woman we'd met only hours earlier.

One evening on this road trip, oh so many years ago, he and a guy who I found quite interesting were hitting it off, my gaydar was going off like a five-alarm fire siren, and so I reversed the roles and used him to "meet" this guy, and yes, he and I ended up going to his room for a wild night. My straight buddy was slightly off when we met up for (a very late) breakfast the following day, and it took some discussion but I eventually worked out that he was put off by the fact that I'd "horned in" (his words, which I found a bit surprising given the dynamic and remember as clearly as though he had just said them out loud).

Now, my buddy is straight and had no sexual interest in this guy, but was acting a bit like a jealous schoolgirl. He finally admitted that he thought my hookup was a good guy he'd like to count as a friend, whereas I treated this guy exactly the way straight buddy had treated the women I'd "introduced" him to over the years, and like all of those women and I, he was unlikely to have the opportunity to develop a friendship with my hookup because it was now "weird." When I pointed out that there was little chance I'd ever get to develop a friendship with the women I'd introduced to him, it dawned on him what had happened and why. As we've aged and met (and married) partners, our nights of going out and carousing have long ended, and we laugh about it now, but it points to one of the reasons that there are similarities between the way that gay men treat each other and straight men and women treat each other.

R190 Most of the women I've worked with have always preferred male supervisors. I've had a few great ones in my time, usually older, often near retirement, and they liked me enough to mentor me. There also wasn't that p.c. crap where they had to watch everything they said, and we could speak freely on many issues, and it never resulted in a visit to the H.R. director's office because somebody was offended.

The best gay friends I had are ones who do not hold things in, have their "moment" of drama, and just move on. I prefer complete honesty over the passive/aggressive b.s. I dealt with in my younger years, and just don't tolerate fools anymore, which sometimes mean I have a difficult time tolerating myself. As long as people don't take themselves too seriously, I don't have any issue with them.

"A homosexual is simply a woman's brain inside a man's body"

Good point about The Boys in the Band. When the revival popped up on Broadway last year, I remember hearing everyone talk about how dated it was going to feel and how gay men aren't like that anymore, but I went to see it and it felt like it could have been written yesterday to me.

Being somewhat androgynous and talented musically/intellectually, I learned from my earliest days to be aware of who wanted to be friends with me, and more importantly, why. My family (I am adopted) was desperate to butch me up, but I couldn't see the necessity--now I know that their experience had shown that I most likely would have a very difficult time in the "straight" world, which has proven to be true in some cases, but as others have mentioned above, fellow gays have been some of the most acidic, back-stabbing bitches I have ever encountered.

The manager of a firm who unconditionally refused to offer me a position because he was jealous, and then did his best to blackball me in that community (Yes, LA law is an extremely tiny world!) Two of our "best" friends who felt oh so superior because one worked at City National in BH, the other one had graduated CSUN/journalism; as both horribly deteriorated from AIDS we did our best to support them, but their attitudes never changed. Makes me wonder why I spent so much time pushing that fucking wheelchair & doing the hospital rounds. Of course the respective families never had one world to say after their demise . . .

ON THE OTHER HAND one friend in particular, who I met as a colleague at work became one of my very best friends--a wise-cracking, rough, chain smoking Navy vet who always made all of us a big turkey dinner if we were in town for Thanksgiving, would literally give you the shirt off his back, and introduced me to my partner--we've been together since 1986. We'd call Leo affectionally "mother" because that's what he was to a lot of us younger guys--we'd party our asses off, but "mother" would always take care of us. Unfortunately, he also succumbed to AIDS in the 90s--the last of our circle. I miss him so much and we still talk frequently about him. Salt of the earth--if there's an afterlife, I want to see him again and tell him how much he meant to us.

Then there's another really eccentric queen (my partner's ex) that most of us had gently written off after he moved back east to take care of his parents. Heart of gold, but really loud, boisterous, opinionated in his own special Polish way. One day we received a note from the law firm where he had worked, informing us of substantial checks coming our way following his death. So shock, then knowing giggles & heartfelt thanks to his caring spirit. Totally unexpected, but so typical of him.

Which is to say that I hope some eon that the vicious hateful gays will really think twice before hurting another gay--karma really is a bitch, & I'd much rather have my positive contributions be celebrated than the latest & greatest vacuous putdown.

[quote]The manager of a firm who unconditionally refused to offer me a position because he was jealous,

Sure, Jan. (Or Joe.)

That was lovely, R196. It does go to show you that there are good people in our community. You just have to find each other and you usually won't find them at a gay bar.

Force of habit.

Because most of them deserve it Op.

Non bitchy gay guys will always align with straight guys , because they just do not care. Insecure catty ,bitchy queens will always attach themselves to bitchy females who they adore , who are nasty to other women and can identify with, period.

R201 non bitchy gay guys , you mean tops?

LOL to you r187, I am talking about the 21-40 year olds, so let me clarify that. Also gays above that age who are in a partnership or marriage who try to look exactly alike. It is pathetic.

[quote]non bitchy gay guys , you mean tops?

Those are the bitchiest queens of all: "I don't SUCK dick." "I am a DOMINATE [[italic]sic[/italic] ] MASCULINE top!"

R204 for truth!!

DOMINATE [sic] MASCULINE top: "What do I care how big his dick is? I don't touch THOSE THINGS."

As an older gay man, I have seen and heard and known every one of the types of gay men that have been talked about in this thread. All the stereotypes, the self-loathing bitchy queens (the Boys in the Band was neither the beginning nor the end of them), the insecure mean-spirited insulters. NONE of this is rocket science. After a certain age, if one matures (which is not a given) and one learns self-respect and self-love and not to "give one's power away," you learn to size people up, individually, pretty quickly. You can tell where someone is coming from pretty quickly. Use your powers of observation, your intuition. And decide whether someone is worth spending time with or allowing into your life. If I even detect that someone (gay OR straight) is being "mean" to me, they are DONE. Too old. Too tired. Too smart. And life is TOO SHORT to put up with that nonsense. I have said many times that the gay culture of MY youth was the blind leading the blind. We were social pariah, outcasts by society, in general, and were looking for role models, for others who would accept us, welcome us, and our "tribe." Which, yes, we found, and there were SOME nice people. We did find friends. But the gay "scene" also heavily peppered with toxic, mean and narcissistic assholes who would never be role models except for how NOT to be. It was all about appearance and the "fuckability factor." And rating people by numbers. Which made those who dared walk into some gay bars not much more than a slab of meat, an animal, to be lusted after and fucked and discarded. Or ignored altogether, completely denying their existence, a cruel joke. It was a clusterfuck. We were called "gay" and so many were miserable. We were known for partying (Studio 54 and disco and drugs, drugs, drugs) and all the debauchery and illicit fun that were depicted in movies and TV and ads and...yet....the dark underbelly of all that was the deep rooted dark side. The lack of self-esteem. The self-punishment. All the damaged people. As my generation aged out of bars and the "scene" (and didn't die or become victims), we learned that there was/is so much more to life than that. Hopefully. I wish that all those who were/are sensitive and compassionate people, who were/are kind people survived the brutality of our youth. Sorry for the dramatic hyperbole but I really do think that "only the strong survive." In life. In general. It wasn't all bad and there were some magical, wonderful times but I, honestly down to the bone, would not want to go through my youth again. In the era in which I came of age, the 80's and 90's.

The strength of a man, the emotions of a woman.

R208 straight men get emotional too, anger is an emotion

When people throw around statements like “only the strong survive” it convinces me more and more that I should take my own life.

But then you wouldn’t be here, r210. And we need you here.

R207 - thanks for your post. As a 48 year old gay man I’ve endured a non-accepting father, abusive relationships, and addiction issues. I do believe it takes a certain amount of strength to survive, and sometimes I don’t know if it was my strength, luck, or both, but I’m still here. There’s good days and bad days, but on the bad ones, I tell myself it will eventually get better. May be corny, but works for me. I’ve looked for happiness in people, drugs, alcohol, work, and material things but never had it for too long. Now I’m trying to do what you said, which is to learn self-love and self-respect. I’m a little late, but I suppose better late than never!

What a great post, r212! GREAT post.

R210, please read r212’s post. And then read it again.

R134 R138 Show us pics or your social media please.

R207 puts it so well. The "blind leading the blind" is what I've encountered, so often. What else are you going to get in a group of outcasts? Thankfully society is by and large much less homophobic today, at least privately.

R214 I don't have SM anymore. I rarely posted pictures of myself. Once I was talking with someone on SM back when I still had an account and was telling her about people randomly giving me their phone number all the time (this baffles even me).I sent her a pic and she said yes, I understand. So there you go. But R214 I'm usually not interested in aggressive people, so you're probably not my type.

And again, being easily found attractive in many social situations doesn't mean being drop-dead gorgeous. It's mostly about energy coming from within. Being open and approachable. Projecting a love for life.

OT I once met completely by accident a young woman who is very famous and hot in this country. She is cool and kinky in a very fun way. I liked her in a movie and left her a note saying so. She just flashed me a beautiful smile and waved as a thank you. I'll say what she has that others don't have. Physically, girls like her are a dime a dozen here. I can walk a busy street and pass ten girls just as pretty as she is, if not prettier, in a matter of minutes. But she has one thing that translates to the screen and made her the star she is today: warmth. When she smiles at you, there is burning desire and love in her eyes. For connection, for life. She has that tenfold, most people are dead compared to that burning fire - MARY!

Anyway. "Perfection" is not what attracts us to others. It's warmth and connection.

(R181) no one is afraid of gay men knowing most are effeminate in varying degrees. LOL

The reality is, just like women, gays generally do not support each other, do not work for mutual good. If one gets a chance, he will bring others down instead. Gay, gay nasty!

The world will be come a much better place for gay men if we unite, support and protect one another. ✌️

Unless a homosexual wants to have sex with you she will not look at or speak to you. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The thought of attending a gay related event creates immediate anxiety. The social skills used in just about all other circles is almost meaningless here. One cannot just show up without what I've come to know as the "cool factor" or that "gay sensibility" to feel that one even belongs. You either have it or you don't. I DON'T and won't even waste my time anymore trying to find it. I love MEN. All different kinds of men. That doesn't make me a part of a community. And it doesn't mean that the "family" is there, waiting for me to show up for the party. You can have all the confidence in the world, but there's a huge shift in behavior that's required to join this club. How many have become traumatized and damaged just trying to fit in to this community? It's always reminded me of high school, and knowing who all the cool kids were. Sadly, that all fades as we get older. It's a part of life. So why not just be KIND? We need this MORE from each other. We've wanted and asked for it from the straight community for years. But why should we expect that, when we can't show kindness and acceptance from this, our OWN "community". It's not a competition. It's a life. NAMASTE'

[quote]How many have become traumatized and damaged just trying to fit in to this community? It's always reminded me of high school, and knowing who all the cool kids were. Sadly, that all fades as we get older.

Not if you go to gay AA. It is as "high school" as anything I have experienced, with the gays as the mean girls this time around. Where I got sober, the cool kids/mean girls were called the Heathers.

R216 So you're telling us you're not drop-dead gorgeous, it's mainly your personality?

R222. I had to attend AA meetings as part of a DUI judgement. I chose the Gay AA group. Thought it might just be different, as you're pretty much stripped down to the bare bones, so to speak. There was just as much posturing and the cliques were already chosen. Telling my story, they knew that I was there to fulfill a judgement, so they might've thought I wasn't worth the investment of their time. And I might've continued to go back, after attending 7 sessions, if I hadn't felt like an outsider. I contributed, participated and supported everyone there. I sat and listened to everyone's stories each week. I have nothing at all against AA, and I know that it's saved lives. But as a good friend of mine described it; "It's verbal masturbation". Each one seemed to play the one-up-man-ship game. It seemed some were there to impress others with their outrageous lifestyles, prior to AA. Got to be tiresome.

Obviously the majority are the most attended to in society, minorities feel the loss of that and tend to take it out on each other rather than their 'superiors', such is the food chain. I think we hold each other to harsher standards than fair. The poster earlier who described yestergays as the blind leading the blind is spot on. We are still working with that foundation and in a society that still fosters bigotry despite the vast improvements.

In AA only the men (aka st8 guys) speak to us or ask us to sponsor them. The homosexuals ignore us, which is fine because they bring a bad vibe to the meetings. 99% of homosexuals do NOT belong in AA, they should be in NA

Who is your "us," r226?

Wrote this elsewhere long time ago but belongs here too. Been sober a long time and did go to AA when I started (not in years, though I still admire it). I was in L.A. and would go to all the gay meetings in West Hollywood and it was pure cat and mouse, nobody looking at each other, same old silly attitude, might as well have been at a gay bar. I assumed that was just how it was and lived with it.

One day, I needed a meeting and there wasn't one there so I went to one more in West L.A. Walked in and it was all guys -- and they couldn't have been nicer. Greeted me, asked lots of questions, handshakes, smiles, asked me to hang out after. I thought "This is more like it, amazing..." And then I looked at my booklet and there was a big S next to the meeting -- and I realized it was STAG. Meaning guys only, no women, and clearly mostly straight guys. Hence the friendly demeanor and no guarded bullshit.

It made me laugh but it was also pretty sad.

We went to a homosexual meeting in Paris and all they talked about was the fact that they all seemed to have AID$ and were taking drugs for that. One of the rare times that we actually felt worse AFTER a meeting.

Why are DL grammar nazi's in this thread.You lot get your juvenile kicks calling other stupid everyday. Yet,your mad you too can be attacked in a similar fashion.Miss me with your petty outrage girls

[quote]Why are DL grammar nazi's in this thread.You lot get your juvenile kicks calling other stupid everyday. Yet,your mad you too can be attacked in a similar fashion.Miss me with your petty outrage girls

Because of "nazi's," spacing errors, "calling other stupid," "your mad," and various comma errors. In short, r230, we exist because you exist.

I'm a lesbian in Paris. I had a very good gay friend who only started going to gay meetings once he'd caught AIDS around 2008. I've never been to any meeting whatsoever.

Question for the elderqueens: Were gay men this bitchy and judgmental pre-AIDS?

Jesus loves everyone.

I'd wager that a high percentage of bottoms have the neural volumes an functional connectivity of straight women and that tops more closely resemble straight men. No one really wants to talk about the gender aspect of this because of the trans movement, but queeny bottoms--with all their middle-school bitchery--definitely occupy some intermediate position along the gender continuum.

R235 Based on your words, you can do the middle-school bitchery in your sleep.

Please shut up with your dumb theories.

[quote]Straight people accept me as I am. Why can't gay people? Why must I conform to some stereotype?

I call Bull Shit! Straight people are not more accepting than fellow gay people. Who do you think created the Defense of Marriage Act? Gays? Straight people tolerate you or patronize you but its not any more true acceptance than gays who actually know how you feel. I cant tell you how many straight people ask me for design tips because I am gay, or women who want me to go shopping with them because they think I know something about fashion which I do not. Or people like my boss who is a woman that wants to tell me about all her sexual exploits in graphic detail because "gays know about that stuff" or lifts up her shirt forcing me to look at her tits after her latest boob job because somehow gays know what good tits are like and want to see them. Gays are still very stereotyped by straight people, its just not as confrontations, its more subversive.

None of that happened, r237.

It sure does happen R238, I'm not R237 but I was at a straight wedding recently and very much the focus of 'Ooooh I'd love a gay friend, to go shopping with!' and such. Posters here claiming they are more comfortable with straights are old school, know your place gays. There are just as many obnoxious straight people as gay, the douche bro is just as bad as any bitchy gay man but it's a straight world so they get a pass. Sadly it's the know your place, don't rock the boat attitude that promotes the closet. I wonder how many of you guys posting here annoyed by the gay 'community' are to some extent closeted as it inevitably gives you a dim view of gay life.

So you think this happened:

[quote]Or people like my boss who is a woman that wants to tell me about all her sexual exploits in graphic detail because "gays know about that stuff" or lifts up her shirt forcing me to look at her tits after her latest boob job because somehow gays know what good tits are like and want to see them.

Unless he works in a porn theatre, in today’s world everyone with an ounce of grey matter would know how quick they’d be sued for that. He went too far.

This thread is practically straight and non-gay people complaining about gay men.

Gays are very nice to each other...if you're hot, rich, popular or well connected then you'll be the darling of your gay gaggle Op.

Exactly, r242. If you don't have any discernible commodity that is prized in the gay lifestyle (worked out body, hot face, big dick, money to spare), then you're invisible at best, mocked and ridiculed at worst. It's a form of gay bashing IMO.

Nonsense R243, you have a persecution complex. The straight world has innumerable shallow types, hot chicks and worked out bros, preening and peacocking, straights have the same issues with popularity and desirability as gays. If some ordinary Joe assumes a superhot woman ( the female equivalent of the gay of your nightmares ) should be interested in him he is soon disabused of the idea. If you lot are bitter because the cool kids, with muscles etc don't want to play, then you should consider putting the effort into being as shallowly pleasing as they do, otherwise there are plenty of less high maintenance guys to get involved with, they are not as superficially impressive, which should't bother you as you claim to dislike the 'empty' lifestyle anyway.

On the Hersey Highway only three things matter : are you under 35 and drop dead gorgeous and/or do you have 9 inches and/or do you have $9 million!

I believe some gays suffer from the same issues other minorities suffer from. Internal anger that comes from feeling oppressed and hated by some in the majority. Some of us are unable to rid ourselves and that anger and we turn it on everyone, even our own.

OMG. Try the Fire Island Pines if you want nastiness in groups. Where everyone refers to each other as SHE. Lots of self hatred and insecurity. It is all for cleverness and fun but underneath the facade is pure hatred.

Hey Girl,,,get her at r247!

R247 is correct. I don’t like negativity or nastiness, so I avoid anyone like that

R230. Oh dear!! The amount of errors is insane!

[quote]I live no more than a 15 minute walk from the Gaybourhood here in Toronto and would sooner visit a burn ward that go to our " Boy's Town".

Toronto gays are mean too? I thought was supposed to be nice and polite and not racist. Their gays seem different than US gays.

All our friends are str8,,,,,we have zero homosexual friends.

We should all focus our collective gay meanness on Aaron Schock and the dumb homos that can't wait to hang out with him, under that power they'll burn up like ants under a budding sociopath's magnifying glass.

Straights are no more content and bitch just as much as anyone eles. You lot moaning about being excluded/ignored by alpha gays, with their youth and/or big dicks/ money, sound no different to embittered straight incels bitching about the hot chicks who put out for them. Those boasting about confining themselves to an isolationist straight ghetto are ridiculously self loathing.

My straight flatmate (who is a magnet for gay men) tells me that he likes hanging out with gay guys because they're kinder, more compassionate, more empathetic and better listeners. I don't know, maybe that's true in some aggregate sense--I don't have data to assess it. But what's also true is that he's a blond, blue-eyed man in his early twenties with a slim body, a posh accent, and a certain amount of vulnerability. It's not hard to see why he'd think gay men are these lovely angels, since most of them on some level are trying to get into his pants. Including me, if I'm being completely honest.

Gays who complain about other gays being mean remind me of gay Asians who only go after Instagram white jocks and then complain about how superficial the gay community is.

In other words, these gays constantly run after the “popular” crowd. This crowd is usually younger, rich, good looking, vapid and completely insecure. If these sad gays chasing after them stopped trying to become part of this “popular” crowd, their issues with “mean gays” would also go away. If these sad gays were to meet a group of loving and supportive gay men, they’d reject them, because normal nice gays aren’t “popular”.

Therefore these sad gays aren’t actually upset about “mean gays” being rude, they’re upset they weren’t invited to join the “mean gays” table. Not only are they ugly on the inside (like the cool gays) but they’re also ugly on the outside.

Reminds me of ugly straight incels who lash out at all women for being sluts because the hot virgin model they wanted rejected them.

As a gay man, I despise other gays. I guess because I’m the only out gay man at work and I get all the attention and adoration. Straight women love me and I think part of it is the way I criticize others (“you’re so bad!”). The only way I’m nice to another gay is if I want to sleep or make out with him. But I’m usually only attracted to straight guys anyway unless I’m drunk, then I’ll settle for a gay guy.

R257 sounds very healthy and well-adjusted.

Bump

Insecurity

Misery breeds nasty people

R259 R260 R261 all 3 bump bitches.

I find it is a trait of particularly nelly queens or trashy and drugged out ones. Not the norm. You also get a lot of self-hatred, mix it in with insecurity and the homophobia they go through and the result is bad.