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Irish Americans

I didn’t know they were looked down/discriminated against until datalounge Are people really prejudiced against them in the real world?

by Anonymousreply 14903/15/2019

OP is DFA

by Anonymousreply 103/09/2019

0/10

by Anonymousreply 203/09/2019

Italians too

by Anonymousreply 303/09/2019

Google "KKK Sudbury Massachusetts 1925" and you'll find out, OP.

by Anonymousreply 403/09/2019

Oh forget it, I did it for you. And this happened all over central Mass.

by Anonymousreply 503/09/2019

And not just a handful of them either

by Anonymousreply 603/09/2019

Yes. People do discriminate against them in the real world.

by Anonymousreply 703/09/2019

As a matter fact, R7 , the working-class Irish parts of Boston were targeted for bussing by Judge Arthur Garrity on purpose, because they refused to knuckle under to his edicts. His SJW planners later admitted that they took pleasure in thrusting South Boston and Charlestown students into black neighborhoods with almost no warning, out of spite. With predictable results. Garrote's own leafy suburb of Wellesley, of course, was never involved, of course.

by Anonymousreply 803/09/2019

The working class parts of Boston were targeted for forced integration of public schools because they refused to voluntarily integrate in any meaningful way. This was necessary because the SCOTUS struck down separate-but-equal education 22 YEARS earlier. If you think 22 years is almost no warning, what would be sufficient warning? 50 years? 100 years?

by Anonymousreply 903/09/2019

R9 The plan was executed with 2 weeks to go before school started. It was chaos, and the radical-left planners knew it would be chaos, and they didn't care. Let's see what happens when your kid (hopefully you have none) get put on a bus at 6 in the morning when there's a school right near your house, and they don't come home till 6 at night, and if there's an emergency, you have no way of getting to them. All for a social experiment. Let's see how you like it. Spoiler alert: Boston now has 7% white public school students. Wonder why?

by Anonymousreply 1003/09/2019

Maybe in the era of JFK and before. Now there are no distinctions between Irish and generic white.

by Anonymousreply 1103/09/2019

You realize that the Black kids went through the same thing, right?

by Anonymousreply 1203/09/2019

Oh please. The Irish controlled the political structure of Boston for decades. The racist bigots of Boston refused to integrate public schools. Fuck off with your bigot apologies, R10.

by Anonymousreply 1303/09/2019

I think the ethnic Irish still have greater alcohol problems that other whites.

by Anonymousreply 1403/09/2019

R13 Guess what, Boston politics didn't mean anything when a federal judge made a ruling. You know very little about governmental power, and less about argument. Calling me a bigot doesn't change the fact that bussing ruined education in Boston for a good 10 years, and other cities too. And all those cities are just as segregated as they were then, probably more. But your friends had their little experiment, so they're happy. Go fuck yourself with a flagpole.

by Anonymousreply 1503/09/2019

Irish Americans tend to have incredibly backward, rigid views on many things. A huge number of right wing blabbermouths are Irish American. Andrew O' Hehir of Salon wrote an article on the phenomenon of Irish American bigotry a few years ago. Many of the journalists who pushed Bill Clinton 's blowjob as an unforgivable sin on par with genocide were Irish American.

by Anonymousreply 1603/09/2019

R10 in a nutshell:

by Anonymousreply 1703/09/2019

R15 let's recap. The federal government, says integrate the schools. Separate but equal is not the law of the land. Irish Boston politicians shit in the face of federal law for 20 years. You say "the mean old social justice warriors were bad people. Those poor working class people didn't deserve it."

They didn't deserve to follow federal law, you fuckwit? And to apologize on behalf of racists who refused to integrate in defiance of civil rights law, makes you an apologist for racism.

by Anonymousreply 1803/09/2019

R16 Salon has devolved into a knee-jerk far-left joke, it can't be taken seriously. Irish Catholics have been one of the most progressive segments of the postwar American population, as evidenced by Gallup polls and other sources over the years. Tell me, where has the base of the Irish American population been in the last 50 years? Boston, New York, New Jersey, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco. What kind of representatives do they send to Washington? Who in fact are the leading liberals of the last 50 years ? Yes, Jerry Brown, Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden -- all right-wing bigots, voted in by racist troglodytes.

by Anonymousreply 1903/09/2019

There are a lot of plastic Paddy’s who are one step away from white rights activists with their “Irish pride”. As an Irish person, I’m always wary of Americans who put too much emphasis on their “Irishness” .

by Anonymousreply 2003/09/2019

These Irish people who hate people of Irish ancestry are such a hoot!

Most people of Irish ancestry live outside Ireland, a country of little relevance, so keep pretending you matter. So adorable!

by Anonymousreply 2103/09/2019

I lived through it , you smug piece of shit. Nobody got ANYTHING out of bussing, except people like you who like to push other people around because you went to Harvard or some other place where the real fuckwits congregate. Your attitude is exactly what made Boston a living hell through the 1970s -- clueless arrogant over-educated people who came in with the idea they were going to punish the bigots. They ended up punished everybody, black and white.

by Anonymousreply 2203/09/2019

R18 Let me take a wild guess-- you lived in a nice suburb where nobody dared tell your parents where they could send you to school. Right?

by Anonymousreply 2303/09/2019

R22, you’re just not helping your argument.

by Anonymousreply 2403/09/2019

How so R24 ? Because I speak from real experience, or because I can't tolerate the arrogance of people who believe social progress comes at the end of a whip?

by Anonymousreply 2503/09/2019

R23, parents were Boston born and bred. Dad, born 1929, mom, 1924.

Boston police, fire, city council members in the family.

All irrelevant.

The fact is the city of Boston refused to integrate schools in the face of federal civil rights laws. The onus is on the law breakers, the Irish who refused to plan for or make policy changes to aid in the integration of schools. The people in power, the Boston Irish, had the power and tools to change school funding, and population structures. They chose, in defiance of federal law, to resist any integration at all.

And the poor working class Boston Irish amped up the mess with their hate filled rhetoric and behavior.

If you have issues, take them up with that social justice warrior, Richard Nixon, and his socialist department of justice.

by Anonymousreply 2603/09/2019

Richard Nixon opposed bussing, famously, idiot, and it was a federal judge who imposed the bussing order, not the Dept. of Justice. And yeh, I'm sure your folks were Boston police and fire, they would have fed you this pablum. So you went to BPS ? Go to your family with these posts of yours and see what they say. You'll be lucky to leave with with your teeth in your head.

by Anonymousreply 2703/09/2019

R20. Im an Englishman and im in agreement with you. I too find it odd how many Americans, particularly those of Irish descent, cling to the national identity of their ancestors. It definitely verges on racism in many cases. And although their ancestors may have been victimised immigrants, the irony is their descendants soon became bigoted xenophobes who target other groups.

by Anonymousreply 2803/10/2019

R28 The irony is that an Englishman is lecturing Americans on xenophobia, when Britain caused most of the racial conflict of the last 400 years. I can just picture you in your John Cleese pipe and cardigan armchair mode, going on about the Paddies. Oh and you caused the fucking Famine too, you shitstain.

by Anonymousreply 2903/10/2019

R29. There is some truth in that, but we hardly caused "most " of it. The Spanish ,French and even you Americans helped. What we have done (ie our governments) does not excuse what you do now. So stop trying to deflect. America is in a class if it's own and has been for decades. You are fuilty of many crimes against mankind. Look at what you do to native Americans, the alamo, Guantanamo bay, slavery and apartheid in the 50s etc you have a lot of crimes under your belt.

by Anonymousreply 3003/10/2019

A Brit lecturing anybody about a country's crimes against humanity is priceless.

by Anonymousreply 3103/10/2019

R30 You slaughtered millions of Zulus, Kenyans, Indians, Afghans, etc; enslaved hundreds of thousands of Irish and Scot in the Caribbean and Australia; ruled a third of the world at one time for your own purposes, without a care about their feelings. Dragged my grandfather into World War One to rescue you from your own diplomatic idiocy, then dragged my father into a war you created with your miserable punishment of the Germans for a war you helped create. Who. The. Fuck. Are. You.

by Anonymousreply 3203/10/2019

R31. Well at least I admit it. Do you Americans ever hold your hands up to your counties numerous crimes? I have theory that America is so fast that extreme patriotism is the only way you can keep it together. When I have been there the amount of flags everywhere is astonishing. And why all the hand on heart singing the national anthem in schools? It's creepy.

by Anonymousreply 3303/10/2019

R32. You forgot our biggest crime against humanity.,we helped create America by sending English settlers over in the 16th and 17th centuries. Our worst legacy is loud mouthed Americans. I always new the "special relationship " was bullshit. We hate each other always have always will. Your country gets what it deserves with Trump etc.

by Anonymousreply 3403/10/2019

R33 You admit what? I didn't hear you admit anything. Yes, "mistakes were made." You gloss over those at Olympic speeds to castigate Irish Americans for racism. I'm sure this thread was a Godsend to you. Where else would have a forum to shit on the Irish?

by Anonymousreply 3503/10/2019

R34 It's a pity you didn't tell us how you felt before we bailed you out *twice* in one century, actually in one 30 year period. If you hated us, then why did we give you all that material in Lend Lease? When my dad was drafted in 1941, they practiced with Civil War rifles, because everything else had been sent to Britain. Their artillery was a log on another log, and they would say Boom. Oh, and don't worry, when the Muslims finally drive you out of Britain, we'll make sure to stamp your refugee status card "DENIED." Australia might have room, though. Unless the Irish there have bad memories too.

by Anonymousreply 3603/10/2019

R36 careful your racism is showing.

by Anonymousreply 3703/10/2019

I guess Britain and America has to pretend to like eachother.

by Anonymousreply 3803/10/2019

R37 Oh is English a race now? I thought they were an empire. My bad.

by Anonymousreply 3903/10/2019

[quote]Irish Americans tend to have incredibly backward, rigid views on many things.

If you have any doubts that some people are bigoted against Irish Americans, reread the sentence above.

If you want, you can look back at nativist screeds from the 1800s and depictions of Irish immigrants as subhuman. You could look at WASP (and I mean real Anglo-Saxon types, not just white people with no obvious ethnicity) attitudes about Irish Americans in the 20th century. Or you could just reread the sentence at the beginning of my post.

Pat Buchanan is an Irish (and German) American. So was Justice William Brennan. Bigots can list all the asshole Irish Americans they want, and I can list just as many liberal, educated, open-minded Irish Americans in response.

The Irish immigration to the US was huge. Their descendants exist here in wild variations. The bigotry against them was vile. And it still exists in some watered down versions.

It's the 21st century. Irish Americans have owned the bigotry against them for some time. They tell jokes on themselves. That doesn't mean it's okay to demean all Irish Americans as some particular type.

by Anonymousreply 4003/10/2019

R40. They are plain Americans if their families have been there for 100 plus yrs

by Anonymousreply 4103/10/2019

I love Irish people. They're such funny drunks, and so sentimental. Bless their Gaelic little hearts.

by Anonymousreply 4203/10/2019

I can’t believe this thread has more replies than my Italian American thread

by Anonymousreply 4303/10/2019

R41 True. That's exactly what my father said when I was a kid in a very Irish Catholic town -- you're not Irish, you were born here, you're American. However, that doesn't mean I need to listen to Brits who caused all of Ireland's problems critiques the characters of the people who survived their genocide.( And I don't use that term loosely.)

by Anonymousreply 4403/10/2019

R43 Questa qua ?

by Anonymousreply 4503/10/2019

R29 How can you blame the English for "causing the Famine"?

1. Did the English blight the potatoes?

2. Did the English force the Irish to produce babies they couldn't feed?

3. Did the English make the Irish hold on to grudges from two centuries ago?

by Anonymousreply 4603/10/2019

R27

You are welcome to read what the Doj under Nixon did in Boston for integrating Boston schools, but I think reading isn't something you are good at.

by Anonymousreply 4703/10/2019

R46 Since you haven't educated yourself, I will gladly do so. But only the first of your tedious and easily sourced questions. 1. The English subjugated the Irish in the 1600s, and because the Irish were Catholic and didn't cotton to English rule, they made it illegal, among other things, to divide your land except among all your children, except if one of them converted to Protestant. In other words, you could not logically give your land to the oldest son, and therefore the land became divided into smaller and smaller plots. Because of this, the Irish had to farm the most reliable crop, which was potatoes. Irish people basically lived on potatoes constantly from 1815 on. This worked until 1845, when the potato crop failed. Because the English government was full of stone-cold assholes, they did not react like normal people. In fact, they facilitated the export of Irish food products out of the country, which could have been used for famine relief, and also allowed and enforced the eviction of millions of people onto the roads, torching their cabins to make sure they didn't return, and forbidding their neighbors fro taking them in, on pain of their own eviction. THAT is how the English brought on the Famine, you effete English prick.

by Anonymousreply 4803/10/2019

R39. No dickhead but you seem to think minorities take over a country. Seems pretty racist.

by Anonymousreply 4903/10/2019

R47 Am I supposed to be impressed by your link? Government jargon, so what ? You don't even bother to tell us what in the document you're trying to highlight. Fail.

by Anonymousreply 5003/10/2019

R48. First most english people are not rich or effete. That is a caricature you have of us. Most english people, especially northerners could kick you into next week . Btw where you from?

by Anonymousreply 5103/10/2019

R48. Sounds like what Americans have done to native Indians. I've seen the areas they live in away from the tourist traps. I saw the kids begging for food and it disgusted me. Shame on you Americans

by Anonymousreply 5203/10/2019

Let's face it both America and Britain are evil capitalist nations who thrive by continually being at war or conquering other poorer nations. Remember centralised banks??

by Anonymousreply 5303/10/2019

There's lots of ANGER in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 5403/10/2019

These threads show that under the civilised exteriors there's deep hatred among people's of the world.

by Anonymousreply 5503/10/2019

Some people hold on to hate more than others.

by Anonymousreply 5603/10/2019

R48 comes closest to the truth as I know it.

by Anonymousreply 5703/10/2019

R56. A lot on this thread. One things for sure humans are stupid rats. All of us. When the end comes it will be a relief for the poor planet.

by Anonymousreply 5803/10/2019

[R55] And the civilized exterior is itself wearing thin. Teeth are bared and fangs uncovered.

by Anonymousreply 5903/10/2019

It's interesting I read that in the 18th century and the enlightenment, the whole concept of politeness and faking friendliness was pushed as a means for doing business in the growing capitalistic structure. It was the only way to make deals, buy pretending to get along with people, and telling them what they want to hear. We've been doing this ever since.

by Anonymousreply 6003/10/2019

We are proud to be 100% Irish Catholic tracing right back to Ireland.

Most Americans are Protestant trash and have little idea of their (usually mixed) ancestry.

by Anonymousreply 6103/10/2019

My fathers family is of Irish/Scottish descent.

When we made some money we were just Scottish.

Oh and Episcopalian.

by Anonymousreply 6203/10/2019

Irish parents! It's practically black in this country init?

by Anonymousreply 6303/10/2019

The ‘real world’ is not America.

by Anonymousreply 6403/10/2019

The Catholic religion promotes narrow mindedness and parochial attitudes...that’s why there are so many bigoted Irish and Italian Americans, praying to their fucking Madonna to keep the minorities out of their neighborhoods.

by Anonymousreply 6503/10/2019

I don't think I made my point well

I grew up south of Boston in a town nicknamed The Irish Riviera.

There was/is still a stigma to being Irish and Catholic but that seems to being dying off with my parents generation.

Our town is filled with people who moved in to escape the busing mess in Southie and West Roxbury. They had summer places and winterized them.

My father wanted nothing to do with any of them. We were better. And of course we certainly were not.

by Anonymousreply 6603/10/2019

Racism/classism is about punching down. The Irish like my father were able to look down on POC as a way of making themselves feel superior to someone despite being poor and barely getting by. But “at least we’re better than them” is a way to enhance your own self-worth. As income and lifestyles improved, racism started to fade.

The Deplorables phenomenon is very similar. Poor working class whites hating on the poor as well as the “elites” - and trying to find some sense of self-worth through denigrating others.

by Anonymousreply 6703/10/2019

Growing up in an Irish neighborhood in the 1970s (both parents immigrated in their 20s) yes we were aware that we were not the top of the pecking order. I’m not sure I’d say we were victims of bigotry or racism as such. Sure we were called micks and spuds at school but every ethnic group was slurred. We just knew we weren’t WASPs and that there were certain people we could never marry, certain colleges we wouldn’t be attending that kind of thing. You were supposed to know your place in life and as an Irish kid the best you were allowed to hope for was the police, fire service or civil service. If an Irish guy dated a WASP it caused quite the scene. Things were segregated. I didn’t feel an anti Catholic bigotry but again you were aware you were not the mainstream religion and occasionally in school some smart ass would call you a Mary worshipper or tell you Catholics were going to hell. Shot he was picking up from his parents. It’s hard for me to separate my working class roots from being Irish Catholic. I can’t image being raised white collar. The union movement was a big part of church going, saying prayers for the cops. My family like JFK but didn’t identify with him. A woman from my mothers home county was a maid for Jackie O in the 70s. My parents were more proud of that in many ways than JFK becoming president.

These days on my travels I sometimes find people outside the east coast (California, Colorado, Idaho) sort of fetishising Irish people. Someone told me “you guys are the best liked white people”. And insane ideas about how the native Irish live. Someone said when I told her I still visit every year “They’re so healthy from all the outdoor work and they spend weekends in castles” Er, no. A coworker was convinced only Irish Americans drink in Patrick’s Day and told me “In Ireland they all go to church and eat a special dinner of oysters”. So far off the mark but he said it with such authority!

by Anonymousreply 6803/10/2019

R67 You're missing a large part of the picture, and that's because academics and the media are full of people spouting that line, who have no idea what they're talking about. The working-c;ass whites were not racist out of any need to feel better than blacks -- that's a I'm-superior-to-them theory concocted by sociologists. It makes the working-class whites appear ignorant and pathetic, which academics love to do, Yes, the white working class was racist, and often still is, because in fact they saw through the smokescreen of what was being done to them. Not only were they the most likely to be shipped to Vietnam, they were the most likely to be tossed out of their homes by urban renewal. The people economically above them were purposely feeding the racial strife to keep their own power. When racial quotas came into education and employment in the 1970s, it was always the wealthy or upper middle class who supported and enforced them, and they themselves were never affected. It was always poorer whites who were frozen out. When African-Americans were given government loans to buy homes, in programs not available to whites, their zone of approval was always in poorer white neighborhoods. It was crystal clear to the white poor that the rise of black people was directly extracted from the poorer whites, who would have otherwise been next in the urban pecking order. Somehow the fire and police and utility companies carved out large quotas for African-Americans, but the Ivys and the big banks and the power structure changed not a bit. Sneering at the working class has always been a staple of upper-class culture.

by Anonymousreply 6903/10/2019

Just before any more uppity Yanks thump the keys: remember this. You're the only country to have used nuclear weapons in warfare. And the majority of your nuclear weapons? Were innocent civilians. Just remember that.

by Anonymousreply 7003/10/2019

R70 Oh yes, we're very ashamed of that. And of liberating hundreds of thousands of British men, women and children who were starving to death in Japanese POW and internment camps. Sorry we ended the war so abruptly, so that your snuggle-toothed daddy and uncles didn't have to get slaughtered on the beaches of Hokkaido. It would have been much more civilized to kill the enemy the way your military preferred, purposely creating firestorms in cities filled with refugees like Dresden and Hamburg.

by Anonymousreply 7103/10/2019

R69 Interesting. In Ireland the Irish travellers are the equivalent of blacks in America in terms of how they’re viewed, treated by police etc.. and they do have a tendency to be engaged in crime and most live off benefits. Anyway, the working classes are the most bigoted towards them whereas many upper middle class people talk about how important they are to the culture and how oppressed they are. Spending time in a small town I noticed that whenever the posh people helped the travellers it was at the expense of the working classes. They got a traveller man a factory job that was never advertised to the locals. They place a traveller family, their 7 dogs and 2 horses in a house for free, the house is in a working class estate and the posh do gooders are on the other side of town unaffected while the working class family have a horse on their lawn. Travellers are allowed to park their caravans in working class estates and workplaces, the locals get a parking ticket for 2 minutes overtime.

by Anonymousreply 7203/10/2019

No the Irish were always quite welcome.

by Anonymousreply 7303/10/2019

This photo from the UK was dated Oct 2017, looks like they are holding on to their traditions.

by Anonymousreply 7403/10/2019

[quote] R40: f you want, you can look back at nativist screeds from the 1800s and depictions of Irish immigrants as subhuman.

The immigrants that came from Ireland, Italy, Poland, etc., in the 19th century were the poorest of the poor, for the most part. They didn’t know American culture. They couldn’t afford hygiene like the upper class could. They couldn’t afford education. So, they were offensive and strange to the relatively wealthy Americans. They were dirty, scary, uneducated and uncouth.

They were treated poorly, but it wasn’t just bigotry that was the problem. It was a culture cash.

by Anonymousreply 7503/10/2019

White people problems. Keep going. Enjoying this thread.

by Anonymousreply 7603/10/2019

[quote] R59: [[R55]] And the civilized exterior is itself wearing thin. Teeth are bared and fangs uncovered

Apparently it is, or was, a custom in Ireland that upon a 21st birthday, the Irish get all their crappy teeth pulled, and a set of dentures.

by Anonymousreply 7703/10/2019

My Irish sister in law did not go to college and discouraged her sons from doing so.

My Irish decent brother in law has bad acne scars. When my sister suggested acne meds for their son, who looked really, really bad, he tried to discourage it. It’s not they’re poor, too.

So, I don’t get this at all.

by Anonymousreply 7803/10/2019

R78 if she’s actually native Irish it could be because after the last recession Irish people with degrees ended up underemployed and there’s now a big push to get young people into trades and apprenticeships. The kids with degrees either immigrated or are working for pennies and the kids with a trade have houses. The kids with a trade also found it easier to immigrate, Canada and Australia were looking for electricians, joiners, carpenters etc... A kid with a masters in history will be waiting tables in Australia.

As for your other question that’s not Irishness. Sounds like old school homophobia where a bit of soap means a boy is gay.

by Anonymousreply 7903/10/2019

The use of atomic weapons is a complicated subject and off topic. Let’s not get into that, or start a new thread for it, please.

Also, I really think we ought to put the circumstances of the 1800s away. It was awful, but nobody today was responsible for any of that. Through I know the Irish are still mad about it. They are really good at holding grudges.

A story I’ve heard about a tour of Ireland:

Guide: “Oh, here is the foundation of a barn where the English locked up our lads, then set it on fire. This is why the English aren’t welcome in our town.”

Me, thinking this was the 1920s or perhaps the 1800s: “OMG, that’s terrible, When was that?!”

Guide: “oh, that was 1357 or thereabouts.”

by Anonymousreply 8003/10/2019

R79, my sister in law is from Ireland, but her sons were college age two decades ago, so it’s not about the more recent economic crash and burn.

by Anonymousreply 8103/10/2019

There is definitely a strain of “don’t put on airs” in Irish culture. Which can be warped into a “you shouldn’t be ambitious” creed. The Irish constitution and a lot of the original ideas for independent Ireland were based on an emphasis of equality. I’ve always found that a unique characteristic of Irish politics - in contrast to other European countries that are OK with most of their politicians being from the upper class.

In the Irish American culture that can also be a “working class pride” mentality. When I look at my Irish American hometown, I’m amazed at how many stayed in the same area and find great pride in never “being fancy or snooty”. There is judgment attached to “acting better than us” that seems to make it difficult to adjust to the diverse variety of cultures and norms of the wider world required to succeed in white collar jobs.

by Anonymousreply 8203/10/2019

R82, you remind me of the frequent complaints I’ve heard over the years, from the Irish, about other, “lace curtain” Irish. It was mostly apocryphal complaints; it was not like I ever met anyone who self identified as such. Not sure if “apocryphal” is the right word.

by Anonymousreply 8303/10/2019

People are all over the place. There's a town south of Boston listed as the most Irish (in the sense of having the most residents who identify as Americans of Irish descent) in the United States and it's a very different place than Ireland. For one thing, most of the residents vote Republican.

Ireland does not think or look like this.

by Anonymousreply 8403/10/2019

When I worked for the RI SOS they had an exhibit about discrimination - I saw the pictures of businesses with signs reading "No Irish or Italian need apply." I found that amusing since I have both those in my ancestry.

by Anonymousreply 8503/10/2019

When I think of Irish Americans I have met (particularly east Coast Irish ), I think "embittered angry victim ". Which is ironic because while the Irish experience in America wasn't smooth sailing it was not significantly worse than many marginalized ethnic groups and in some ways easier. I've found many of them to be simultaneously extremely angry and hypersensitive. They have a nasty tendency to lash out at others they deem outsiders. Very moralistic and puritanical, all while frequently behaving like angry out of control drunks. Self pitying bullies.

by Anonymousreply 8603/10/2019

Aren't Germans and Irish the biggest share of Deplorable America.

Thank god for the non white-white Italians, others this country would be shit.

by Anonymousreply 8703/10/2019

That’s my Irish brother-in-law, R86, if you add in in passive aggressive and shame-filled.

I understand he is dealing with alcoholism, I think. But it’s all very hush hush, so I don’t know. It’s too bad that he keeps it so quiet, because I might be more understanding of his behavior if he shared a little of what he’s dealing with. My sense is that he has a lot of “shame” as part of his personality. I suspect that is an Irish trait, but I’m not sure.

by Anonymousreply 8803/10/2019

R82 nails it! A lot of begrudgery too. It’s very hard to get a native Irish person to say a good word about those who succeeded, Bono for example. A lot of affection for people like Shane McGowan who had success in England but who is a misfortunate brain damaged alcoholic so he’s not above his station! Of course the youth are very Americanized and the culture is progressing at breakneck speed. I enjoy watching RTE player. There’s a lot of good nature in Irish tv shows. They still love a good disease or suicide story on their late night chat show.

No, the Bible Belt has very few Irish Catholics. Scots Irish are a different group, they brought Presbyterianism to the US but the native Irish in general have not heard of Presbyterians or the American version, Baptists.

Shame and repressing emotions were a big part of Irish culture, again the youth not so much. I heard “shhh” and “whist” in my house 10 times a day. If something wasn’t said out loud it wasn’t happening. Among the banned words in our house were pregnant, alcoholic, gay, abusive, sex, cancer......you get the idea. If a man was a raging alcoholic with the shakes the adults would say “he’s fond of a drop”.

by Anonymousreply 8903/10/2019

R88 Yes, shame is another frequent cultural trait in the Irish. Guilt can be a good thing because it can motivate change and growth but shame has a tendency to backfire big time. All a shame filled person can think is about how "wicked " they are, which usually drives them deeper into dysfunction. And shame filled people tend to project their worst qualities on others.

by Anonymousreply 9003/10/2019

R90 And shame filled people tend to project their worst qualities on others.

Better when some of the hot ones channel it into kinky sex...

by Anonymousreply 9103/10/2019

Well said R89. I will always hate the sound/word/hiss “whssht” . Just dont talk about it. Makes the whole coming out thing a whole different process than for other European/American cultures.

by Anonymousreply 9203/10/2019

Don't apologize, r86. You just described my father and his entire family. Oddly, none of them voted Republican.

by Anonymousreply 9303/10/2019

[quote]Are people really prejudiced against them in the real world?

No.

by Anonymousreply 9403/10/2019

It's important to remember that to Irish-Americans, anything that happened 150 years ago is treated as if it occurred earlier this morning. History's eternal victim.

by Anonymousreply 9503/10/2019

A lot of so called Irish Americans couldn’t find Ireland on a map and have no knowledge of Irish history. “I’m Irish” means 1/16th Irish. The last wave of immigration was the 80s, the Irish have been shut out since then and now immigrate to Australia and Canada. There are still some “Irish ghettos” in NYC, Chicago, Boston and Philly but the population there are ageing and their kids marry out. You can’t possibly attribute anything some white “I’m Irish (and German and Swedish), go St Patty, corned beef and cabbage” person from Kansas does to being Irish. Plastic Paddy sounds offensive but it is frustrating when someone raised in American culture, often without religion or some branch of Protestantism, tries to convince a native Irish person they are basically the same. Native Irish people are bound by some very unique cultural experiences that outsiders cannot understand.

by Anonymousreply 9603/10/2019

Americans are so funny about ethnicity. So Irish people aren't considered white in your country? Cause they definitely are in Britain and Ireland I can assure you. As for Anglo -Saxon you do know that tag only refers to english people from around 400-1100 AD right. Do you still call Scandinavians Vikings too haha

by Anonymousreply 9703/11/2019

[quote]As for Anglo -Saxon you do know that tag only refers to english people from around 400-1100 AD right.

ONLY Jewish people use that outdated term. As soon as I hear "wasp" I know there's a pale-skinned white Jewish person talking.

by Anonymousreply 9803/11/2019

Are the Irish typically so hateful and angry? Assuming R22 is Irish, no wonder people have a negative view of them.

by Anonymousreply 9903/11/2019

[quote]You forgot our biggest crime against humanity.,we helped create America by sending English settlers over in the 16th and 17th centuries. Our worst legacy is loud mouthed Americans.

No, your worst crime is that those same people slaughters, murderer and wiped out an entire race of Native Americans. Millions of people. 99% eliminated, rendered, put to death by the English. What a convenient memory.

Only a hand full of us survive, I am one of them.

by Anonymousreply 10003/11/2019

R100 actually the Indians were being slaughtered by Americans too in the 18th and 19th centuries. Also what are modern Americans doing to help them now? Are they valued members of society or are they marginalised embarrassments of a shameful past?

by Anonymousreply 10103/11/2019

Americans sound obsessed with race and ethnicity. All these tags you use. Is it because your still a fairly new nation made up totally of immigrants? It's so bizarre how you talk about people.

by Anonymousreply 10203/11/2019

R98 Irish immigrants used it too back in the day. You don’t hear it much anymore. I heard someone say we used to be white with an asterisk but you had to have been there, it doesn’t make such sense to young people.

The Native Americans heard about the Irish famine in 1849 and sent over a donation. You could never speak ill of a Native American in our neighborhood because of that. Lots of the guys my age got “Indian tattoos” which would be considered cultural appropriation these days I suppose but they meant well at the time. There was always an undercurrent of decency and charity and I am not surprised at all with how quickly Irish culture changed once they got rid of the church. People always say to me how shocked they were when Ireland passed gay marriage and abortion by public vote but I wasn’t shocked. That compassion and decency was always there but the church did it’s best to direct it towards them.

by Anonymousreply 10303/11/2019

R102 Yes it is.

by Anonymousreply 10403/11/2019

R98+1. True, that. Jews are always the perpetual victims when I hear them talk yet many have very powerful jobs.

by Anonymousreply 10503/11/2019

[quote]actually the Indians were being slaughtered by Americans too in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Dipshit, still the direct descendants of the English. So the first wave of English who slaughter Native Americans counts but their evil spawn who fallow in their footsteps do not?

by Anonymousreply 10603/11/2019

R106 I'm pretty sure by the late 18th century white Americans identifyd as Americans. Also are you going to blame us for southern apartheid in the 1950s too?

by Anonymousreply 10703/11/2019

[quote]Are they valued members of society or are they marginalised embarrassments of a shameful past?

Native Americans are in fact looked upon positively these days as the most have learned what the English or White man did to them. You cant marginalize a culture that you destroyed. Meeting someone Native American in a big city is possible, but rare. They don't dress like they live on a reservation from the 1800's. That said, a good portion do still live on reservations which is considered by law a separate nation.

by Anonymousreply 10803/11/2019

R108. You still can't bring yourself to admit that white Americans also commited genocide can you?

by Anonymousreply 10903/11/2019

[quote]I'm pretty sure by the late 18th century white Americans identifyd as Americans

Well lets see, they they speak English, their culture is English, their architecture is English, their food is English, their traditions are English and their laws are primarily English inspired. Looks like a duck, talks like a duck, then yes, English slaughtered the Natives.

Stop trying to minimize the deplorable actions of your spawn.

by Anonymousreply 11003/11/2019

[quote]Also are you going to blame us for southern apartheid in the 1950s too?

Would racist white people even be there in southern Africa had it not been for the England?

by Anonymousreply 11103/11/2019

[quote]Stop trying to minimize the deplorable actions of your spawn.

Spawn would be one's children, not their ancestors.

by Anonymousreply 11203/11/2019

The Dutch, R111?

by Anonymousreply 11303/11/2019

Our grand uncle from Wexford was awarded OBE for serving in the British army in WWl

He must have been really desperate for work and/or stupid.

by Anonymousreply 11403/11/2019

[quote]That said, a good portion do still live on reservations which is considered by law a separate nation.

In Canada any Native person with half a brain does everything they can to leave. The ones that stay are typically lazy drunks.

by Anonymousreply 11503/11/2019

[quote]Spawn would be one's children, not their ancestors.

Semantics don't work here. Your English sperm is still the poison that eventually lead to millions of people being put to death.

by Anonymousreply 11603/11/2019

R116 you sound verybdumb and don't know history. Come back to me when you have read up on things and realise that the world's problems aren't all the fault if the English.

by Anonymousreply 11703/11/2019

Lots of Irish men joined the British army or went to work in Britain. When you are starving..... A lot fought in Spain too. My grandfather and his brother joined the US army to get citizenship. His brother was killed in WW2, my grandfather being 13 years younger survived Korea. Their other brother went to the Brutish army and then worked for Royal Mail for 42 years. There were 13 siblings, the father died of TB and their mother was a domestic servant to the Protestant minister in their town who let her take home scraps like potato peelings to feed the kids. Needless to say my grandfather had an obsession about never taking any hand outs. When he died we found cash hidden all over the house. He even had a folded 20 in the bottom of the sugar bowl.

by Anonymousreply 11803/11/2019

Oh the poor darlin Irish, perpetual victims they are praise be to gawd

by Anonymousreply 11903/11/2019

[quote]you sound verybdumb and don't know history. Come back to me when you have read up on things and realise that the world's problems aren't all the fault if the English.

Come back to me when you stop glossing over all the people that died on behalf the your country. Seems to me you are the one who can own up to its own countries history of carnage.

by Anonymousreply 12003/11/2019

R120 it's what made Britain great. Who cares if Irish starve it's a miserable backwater anyways.

by Anonymousreply 12103/11/2019

If your catholic why didn't your God help you out? Oh shit looks like he didn't give a feck either hahaha

by Anonymousreply 12203/11/2019

Gods and Englishman after all

by Anonymousreply 12303/11/2019

[quote]Who cares if Irish starve it's a miserable backwater anyways.

Backwater? Pot meet Kettle.

by Anonymousreply 12403/11/2019

R122 The Irish figured that out and told the Catholic Church where to go.

by Anonymousreply 12503/11/2019

Ireland expelled the priest and replaced him with the usurer and the ambulance-chaser.

Not a good trade in our opinia!

by Anonymousreply 12603/11/2019

Do usurers (?) and ambulance chasers rape children, beat schoolboys half to death, throw girls into mother and baby homes, sell children to wealthy Americans without the mothers consent, perform symphysiotomies, ban contraception, ban divorce, ban married women from government jobs, make homosexuality illegal, bury illegitimate babies in septic tanks.

by Anonymousreply 12703/11/2019

Yes, the usurers do all those things by the milllions!

by Anonymousreply 12803/11/2019

R127 He was talking about modern day Ireland and referencing banks giving out credit I assume. Which is wrong, since the recession it would be easier to get a blowjob from Bono than a loan from an Irish bank.

by Anonymousreply 12903/11/2019

And the massive public debt

by Anonymousreply 13003/11/2019

Hi! I'm intermarriage!

Me and my friend here, 21st Century just wanted to weigh in and say that 95% of this thread has been out of date since the mid-80s.

But carry on.

by Anonymousreply 13103/11/2019

Also, wasn't Judge Garrity of Irish descent, at least on his father's side?

Given that Garrity is an Irish name and all that?

by Anonymousreply 13203/11/2019

[quote] R97: Americans are so funny about ethnicity. So Irish people aren't considered white in your country?

Yes, Irish are considered White in the US. All of European ancestry is, including Jews, Greeks, Italians, and Spanish. When your alternatives are Asian, Black, or West Indian, it should be clear. “Hispanic” is sometimes listed as an alternative to “White”, but it’s not, unless you consider it a blend of White and West Indian. But it’s not really a race, it is more of a language group.

by Anonymousreply 13303/11/2019

Race and ethnicity are not the same thing.

by Anonymousreply 13403/11/2019

R131 You say 95% of this thread has been out of date since the mid-80s.

That's because migrants live in a time-warp.

And because the Irish specialise in loving their ancient grudges, resentments and will hold onto hatred until death.

by Anonymousreply 13503/12/2019

So sayeth R135, whose government is in the process of trying to break yet another treaty with Ireland.

by Anonymousreply 13603/12/2019

It’s interesting to hear Irish immigrant family support The Wall because “they came legally”. They don’t realize that immigration laws gave them priority for decades until the 60s. They got a VIP card into the US.

by Anonymousreply 13703/12/2019

R137 "VIP" meaning "very indigent people" ? What are you talking about? Immigration laws did not favor the Irish, you dolt -- the immigration restrictions of 1924 were targeted at the Irish and other groups that were seen as inferior. Read a book why don't you? VIP my ass. An entire Irish family didn't have the yearly income to buy a current migrant's sneakers, for fucksake, even curving for inflation. There were no immigrant advocates, civil rights attorneys, welfare offices, or agencies steering them toward free housing and health care and food. There was the Catholic church and thats about it.

by Anonymousreply 13803/14/2019

[quote] I didn’t know they were looked down/discriminated against until datalounge Are people really prejudiced against them in the real world?

The English used to, and many kinds of Americans used to look down on Irish-Americans back in the 19th century.

Things are very different in the year 2019. Most Americans think the Irish accent is sexy, and the brits mostly realize Ireland is a better read nation than even they are, and that more Irish are educated than they are.

by Anonymousreply 13903/14/2019

The most viciously racist whites I’ve ever listened to were Boston Irish-Americans, and that’s after having spent time in the Deep South in the 1960s.

by Anonymousreply 14003/14/2019

I understood that Ted Kennedy saw to it that there were loopholes in immigration law that favored Irish immigration?

by Anonymousreply 14103/14/2019

I wonder if the Irish Americans will observe a minute's silence to recognise the Southern tragedy before thy start drinking themselves into a state of oblivion on the weekend?

by Anonymousreply 14203/14/2019

R138 - you have the wrong century. That was the 1800s. The immigration act of 1920s gave favorable quaotas to Western Europeans in order to block Asiatic immigration. Western Europeans were given preference over others until the mid-1960s.

by Anonymousreply 14303/15/2019

I’m assuming R138 is Irish American. They feel discriminated against 100 years after their great grandparents came to America. As someone whose Irish parents snuck in legally just before the quotas were changed in the 60s - and who now feel superior to those who “don’t play be the rules we did” - I can tell you I am VIP (very immigration- privileged)

by Anonymousreply 14403/15/2019

In December the Irish tried to get access to a visa program that currently accepts only Aussies. Visas go to college educated professionals. The bill didn’t pass the Senate. There’s no favoristism towards the Irish now and they haven’t had access to legal immigration since the 80s. The newer immigrant communities in places like Woodside do not support Trump or the wall. There’s also no support for Trump in Ireland, he’s seen as a joke.

by Anonymousreply 14503/15/2019

Modern Ireland and Irish immigrants are a completely different culture than 50+ years ago. Fortunately - except for a period after 2008 - the need to emigrate is much less urgent. The modern Irish and recent Irish immigrants have a different view of the world than the same groups 50 years ago. Heck, I’d almost like to reverse emigrate at this point.

by Anonymousreply 14603/15/2019

They have tiny dicks.

by Anonymousreply 14703/15/2019

R146 The modern Irish and recent Irish immigrants have a different view of the world because the nation was getting enormous subsidies from the EU Common Market.

by Anonymousreply 14803/15/2019

Give Ireland back to the Irish,

Give Lapland back to the Laps.

Give China back to the Chinese,

And Yoko back to the Japs.

by Anonymousreply 14903/15/2019
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