Leaving Neverland, Part 4

Cruelty to animals and to kids are both heinous and deserve long long prison terms.

is that why Jackson peddy had to take strongest sleeping pills known to man? to erase his shit ton of guilt???

The child rapist and animal abuser is dead.

May the witch rot in deepest hell.

face it, we all knew he was up to pervy horrors, no on messes up their face like that if they normal, and had to pay all total, 44 million to cover child rape charges.

cant the billions his estate takes in be given somehow to victims or the proper charity?

I know it’s irrational but I am enraged every time I see Taj Jackson’s ugly face defending Michael. He represents everything I cannot stand about the liar liar Jackson family.

Lets find out how much the estate cuts him in $$$ each month, im sure every Jackson gets a hefty amt to protect the cash cow peddy

Fat ugly liar!

IM personally offended that I spend hundreds in my life on Jackson tapes and records, t shirts and concerts. All going into his pervy pocket. lets all sue the estate.

All the worthless Jacksons are paid at least $9k a month by Katherine.

Hey fattcake taj, did peddy mike pay for that shitty hair?

imagine the millions in mommy jacksons bank account, $$$ should be set up in a fund for therapy for victims of his grubby hands and tongue.

some accountant whistleblower should man up and show how much they all get from the peddy bastard.

BRING ON THE LAW SUITS

Once Katherine dies, the estate goes to the MJ kids. I hope they cut off all the freeloaders.

I hope his victims get some comfort from the knowledge that although he got away with his crimes, he was miserable throughout his life. All the fame and fortune in the world didn't change that. Happy people do not pay thousands of dollars to mutilate their own face.

oh they all kiss their asses like mad, but would be nice if they send all the fuks packing bak to the ghetto

Jimmy Safechuck probably feels deeply sad for him in that regard, R12 that pedo freak didn't deserve all the affection he's still getting.

The jacksons are suing hbo for ' making a movie detrimental to mikes image'....good luck with that assholes.

That lawsuit will be thrown out. It’s the story of the two victims and Michael is just the guy who did it. Creep. I am glad he is dead.

I have a hard time with the lion and the rock throwing. There were other kids there. I can't imagine them standing around watching something like this. All this material is from a book called "Michael Jackson Was My Lover" by a guy named Victor Guitierrez and is based in part on interviews from people who were paid by shows like A Current Affair. I'd take everything reported with a grain of salt.

The Safechucks also further messed up Jimmy's chances at life by believing Michael's promises that he would take care of Jimmy's career and that he shouldn't have to worry about school. His parents really thought they had a golden ticket through Michael, it's a lot like the parents that make their kids invest everything in sports not thinking that one injury would end any chances they have at getting into college.

Also reminds me that Michael was well known for making extravagant promises all over the world that he would build things like amusement parks which never materialised and which he had no intention of following through with.

R17 Yea we'll only know if more staff talk about it independent of that book. They might have talked about it elsewhere but I don't remember any other examples. I guess we might know too if they ever find any of the alleged buried animals in Neverland. Either way the animals only seemed to be there to aid his grooming so I wouldn't be surprised if he was cruel to them.

This Jordy Chandler transcript closely mirrors the abuse perpetrated on Robson and Safechuck. Michael had a nipple fetish.

No comments yet about the last time Wade saw MJ at Neverland with his wife Amanda. Wade said MJ kept telling him to bring wine over that day before the visit. The first thing he said when Wade got to the house was “you got the wine?” or something to that effect. What happened to the huge wine cellar that the mothers seems to enjoy back in the earlier days of their sons’ abuse? MJ poured himself large red Solo cups of wine for himself that night while they watched movies with his kids. Finally at one point he said he’d be back in a minute, and after an hour and a half passed, and Wade asked the kids about checking on him, they were like, it’s okay, he’s fine. So apparently he’d drink himself to pass-out stage at night and the kids were used to it. Add IV propanol to that at bedtime. He died not long after that last visit from Wade and Amanda.

R20 wade and Amanda were visiting michael at his house in Vegas that last time

Propofol, not propanol

Glad to see the Jackson family will never be affected by these lies, and the money hungry accusers will never see a penny. *Periodt*

My mistake r21. But he had no wine in the house? Even Wade seemed to think the thing was strange.

I feel bad for Paris. She claimed to be sexually abused by a family member. And she would have known these boys with her father and must have seen a lot. She's in a bad spot.

R24, we don’t know the full story on MJ’s finances, do we? He might have sold off the wine to raise money; a good wine collection can be quite valuable.

Or all of the 10 year olds drank it, R26.

I hope Paris is writing a book on the downlow. She’d become independently wealthy from book sales alone. I’d be worried Katherine Jackson is tying up MJ’s money in trusts and overseas accounts for her own children - or that other Jackson family members already have access to the account and are being creative draining the accounts before MJ’s kids get their money.

Why should the Jacksons even be on a payroll? If MJ hated his family, why put them in charge of his estate?

Mama Safechuck talked about the pleasures of hanging out in the wine cellar getting drunk on good wine while her 7-year-old son was spreading his ass cheeks upstairs.

Paris is already independently wealthy. The kids get 50 percent and Katharine Jackson gets 50 percent. When Mama dies her 50% share reverts to the three kids.

I am sure Michael’s brothers have set themselves and their families up for life. It’s clearly more money than any of them need. It’s all tainted money though. They will all die in pain and guilt.

I'm not sure they feel any guilt. Did any of them try and stop Michael's abuse?

The Jackson Bros have no money except for what Katherine gives them out of her share. She holds the purse strings for the whole family, except for Janet of course who is super rich.

They barely saw him!

the Jacksons are pieces of shit who have never worked cept to bleed $$ from peddy mike. kharma a bitch and some dam day they will all be on welfare.....janet aint gonna share her Saudi alimony. no

Adjusted for inflation, Jackson's estate has made $2.1B since his death.

Who molested Paris? Probably one of her creepy moocher uncles. That family is fucked up!

And where has all the money gone?

Here's a summary of the Jackson will / trust.

skin bleach, hair straightners, plastic surg, LV bags by the dozen, wigs, clothes from Old Navy, call boys n girls, the list goes on.....they family loves spending pedo jacko $$$$$

hope Katherine has body guards and food tasters, them kids n grand kids are hungry to git their hands on all her $$$. do we know she still alive???

damn, on sites, magazines, newpapers, blogs all over the world theyr talkin bout king of pop eating out 7 yr old kids....when ever has there been such depravity in the media discussed?

jacko prob lookin up from hell, lovin the attention.

Sweet liddle paris used to get on her knees and scrub graffiti off her pedo dads star on the blvd.…..think she still does?

all jacksons should hide in humiliation at being linked to that child and animal abuser.

Katherine is old, the kids have prob gotten lawyers to 'adjust' the estate terms of $$$$. to their benefit.

Peter Pan......or peter IN the pan......

peter in the pan hole

o baby pinch my tittys

Taj looks pervy, he should just go sit down and hush.

Is she female to male?

Where do all the kids live? NY? LA? Neverland? Are they educated?

I've searched high and low, and absolutely no print reference or image can be found of Miss Ross' two boys ever having spent one minute at Neverland, or in MJ's company alone. Miss Ross ain't no joke and I'm sure she knew better to place her boys in harm's way. If anyone knows of her boys spending time with MJ then please share.

u think the good stuff hits the news? hell jacko was masterful at keeping his trysts secret... shhhhh

old Dirty Diana, bet she has wild info on pedo jacko…..she new LOTS

cmon di, lets hear the good stuff u old sinner..

in some pix where he huggin on her and stuff, her eyeballs is buggin and she look like she sayin ' git this freak off me'

I wonder what he was up to when he lived abroad in those arabs countries. I shudder to think what was provided to him by his 'hosts.'

no kidding, the arabs prob gave him watever he wanted.....like anything! so sad, such abuse ,,,,,such abuse

Wonder how much the family will make off the upcoming Broadway show? Sony just paid some serious $, they are likely the ones paying for the crisis PR and SM posts supporting Mike.

will it open? prob will be many protesters from child abuse sites that want the peddys show taken down...and concerned parents who want the bastards image taken down, he is the face of child abuse for the rest of time. awful person...

WHOM IN HIS FAMILY WOULD SHOW UP AT THE PREMIERE? OH YAY, THERE IS OUR PEDDY BOY JACKO, STANDING OVATION.

I will be there in my red jacko jacket screaming give me ur kids !!!! bway for peddy!

DONT LET THIS MESS OPEN, BESMIRCHES THE MEMORY OF CAROL CHANNING F G SAKE

Hollywood Reporter says Leaving Neverland has 3rd largest audience for hbo in a decade.

MACAULAY CULKIN was sexually abused by MJ, but still hasnt come to terms with it. From a weird show biz family.... etc. Regarding Macaulay Culkin, there was disturbing testimony by a chef and a maid in the trial of MJ who told another story.

Phillip LeMarque, Jackson's self-described cook and "majordomo" for about 10 months in 1991, testified that the alleged grope transpired shortly after he received a 3 a.m. radio call from security: "The Silver Fox wants French fries."

LeMarque found the Silver Fox -- the name he attributed to Jackson -- in the arcade room.

"Michael was playing with Macaulay Culkin at one of the games, Thriller. He was holding the kid -- he was small, he probably couldn't reach the controls. His left hand was inside the pants of the kid ... down into the pants ... in the crotch area," LeMarque said. "I was shocked. I almost dropped the french fries."

LeMarque said he did not confront Jackson, deciding instead to back out quietly and make a noisy re-entrance to alert the singer of his approach.

When asked why he did not go to police, LeMarque said, "Nobody would have ever believed this."

LeMarque's dark tale rounded out a week of salacious testimony from former Jackson employees -- and one alleged victim who claim that the King of Pop has a history of sexually molesting young boys who were sleepover guests at his Neverland Ranch.

Culkin has publicly denied he was abused, and Jackson was never charged in any of the alleged "prior bad acts."

a former personal maid to Jackson said she also witnessed Jackson “inappropriately” kissing and touching the young Home Alone actor and three other boys, according to testimony at the pop singer’s child-molestation trial.

ev body knows culkin was messed with cept him.....the guilt of him getting the peddy off at that trial, must be great.....he looks like he is ate up with guilt...

tell the truth man, it will set u free.

R58 You are singularly unfunny. Your track record of being so consistently lacking in humor, though you try post after post, is remarkable. Keep it up! You're bound to get a chuckle. Broken clock and all that.

The Chicago test run of the Broadway show has been cancelled. MJ is the most famous pedophile in history.

Have you guys Seen Yvette Nicole Browns Instagram, she blatantly tells everyone LOVE WILL WIN. MY IS INNOCENT. If you choose to stop following her, thats fine dont let the block button hit you on the way out. lol She blocked me as I told her she was a disgusting PIG!

r64 MJ is innocent not MY

we ignore all mj peddy defenders . paid by momma Jackson, they are as ridiculous as they are embarrassing to the human race.

r50 Evan Ross was on WWHL and told Andy about his friendship with MJ. MJ called him apple head too...He said they hung out and MJ called him often on the phone.

#62....go hug ur peddy jacko life size doll...

The funniest thing about MJ is I have read from black people, I support MJ I support my black brothers.... They are trying to keep the black man down and destroy his legacy... I find it hysterical! Even TI the annoyin country bumpkin rapper said the same. MJ wanted nothing whatsoever to do with the black race. Changed his nose completely, eyeliner, red lipstick, painted eyebrows. Didnt even want black kids, got white ones... but okay Black people, cape for someone who wanted nothing do do with his blackness. Didnt even want anything to do with his family except his mother, and here they all come defending him when MJ wanted nothing to do with them. its so funny!

not to mention he changed his race to white crazy woman. WHITER THAN WHITE PEOPLE...did the blacks protest that?

Do you think Culkin got a payout from Michael to keep quiet? He lives a pretty good lifestyle and I cannot believe the Home Alone money lasted this long.

HBO please keep showing the movie.

although it can be seen at their website too...every time its viewed, another nail is driven into the child molesters nose...or lack there of.

Good point, R71: Who knows to what extent Jackson subsidized Culkin’s lifestyle. The Safechucks got a house. What might Culkin have gotten?

Jackson estate getting a shitload of $ from that vegas show.....matter of time till it closes now due to low ticket sales

Did I hallucinate that Michael had like wasted his finances and was overspending and in debt? Why do I remember that being a thing?

R75, he did, but without him to spend all the income that his estate generates from his catalogue of hits it's a goldmine.

true, he worth more dead now than alive, it seems......convenient for the family and Sony huh

R76 ah yea, that makes sense. Thanks!

All that money he spent on shopping and pre pubescent boys, the old Jackson clan can now spend on chitlins!

It’s just interesting because Paris always has roommates and her house in Los Angeles looks very blah and almost middle-classy. And there was that report that she was stressed about losing job opportunities from this doc. If she has access to his money, you think she’d be living larger.

she is loaded, its all lies for sympathy. and drama/attention. ….she is, after all, his daughter.

The story in the last thread about Michael introducing Wade to his niece. Like so what? That does not mean he could not be abused. Is a relationship supposed to stop the abuse? I don't get the logic here. Some people are asking why he would do that if he wanted Wade alone, all to himself. I think it's more a cover up. Michael was smart, he knew how to cover his tracks. Also, by letting Wade date his niece he was able to keep him close, that's my guess anyway. IF the story is even true, that is.

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I'd love for the crazed MJ stans to explain Jimmy. He was obviously NOT lying. His face, voice and body language said it all. The way he was speaking of Michael, like he still loved him, even though he abused him, is also a big sign. The stans all focus on Wade because they aren't able to discredit Jimmy.

desperation of the family and the $$$$ men. angels of the kids wont let them bastards win out...

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those posters beg the question, why such effort to hide the truth. they only deepen his sins.

r86 they also found nude pictures of boys, but they werent classified as child porn so they couldnt be used!

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R82, I posted that story. I don't believe it. According to Taj, Wade had to be between 7-14mwhen they dated. She said 10 years. It's pretty unbelievable. She has not one picture either. Seems like another lie.

In Jordy Chandler's statement he said Michael would sleep in the same bed with him at Jordy's own house! WTF!?

Mj groomed the children, groomed the parents, groomed the WORLD!!!!!!!!

How do we forgive Michael.. was he merely himself a victim of circumstance, and deparately trying to find love, acceptance, sweetness?

I don't now, if my son were treated like that by him however.....ide blow his fukin head off.

god forgive me. but who protects the children, if not the parent...ones kids are ones most precious thing in the world.

yet he had 3 kids, and he still did this...…..why?

He was abused by his dad, ude think that would make him super sensitive to abusing others, especially kids.

The drugs made his spin into some beast beyond himself maybe...into his dad.

Seems tragic for his fans to protect his image. . forever soiled.

Wonder what Jackson will be born as his next life?

a toilet seat?

No drugs were mentioned in the doc, he supposedly started after the Pepsi hair fire, was that after their time? Earlier someone suggested his druggy decline was due to guilt, but I doubt he was capable of that feeling, pedophiles see what they do as an expression of love and feel misunderstood, that would have fitted in nicely with Jackson's self image of fragile victim. I think his sharp decline came when he knew his 'love' life was over. He brazenly continued chasing boys after the near miss of Jordy Chandler but after the spotlight of the court case his life of parading boys and boasting of them sharing his bed were over. Sex and the pursuit of it, was an overriding obsession for Jackson ( as with Jimmy Savile ), his home, his interests, his presentation were all geared to spellbinding children, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say, once he knew his days as the Casanova of the under 10s were over, it killed him.

Don’t act surprised these quacks’ claims match up with past accusations. These pathetic “victims” have spent 20 years (mostly advocating for Jackson until they had money/career problems to which the court laughed at their blatantly unbelievable lies) to come up with a plausible narrative that fit.

MJ is dead. He fought the allegations when alive. Went before a jury—where the evidence was heard—and he was found not guilty. If the glove does not fit...

My friends and family laugh knowing these scammers will never see a dime from the estate...just like that liar Gavin Arvizo was shutdown and shamed. Come for the Jackson family if you dare.

lover of Jackson troll, u look so pitiful....that u cant see 99% of the public think he did indeed rim little boys, is sad

go live in ur neverland world hun.

I couldn’t stop laughing as I watched that pathetic Robson tell his story of “victimization.” He is a truly sick one for inventing this Oscar worthy fiction. He deserves some money—not for the fictional abuse—but simply for playing the role of a lying, broke MJ-obsessed loser so well.

R97 You think Jmmy made it all up? Did you watch the documentary and Jimmy's demeanor? How could he fake that? If you can look at Jimmy and not see a broken man, but a liar, then you need serious help.

You talk of the Jackson family with respect R97 but they are a ragbag of shameless grifters who haven't worked in decades and feed off the carcass of a dead pedophile. Like all of us, including you, they know what he was but it suits them to keep that on the dl so they can maintain their tacky idea of classy living. All you get R97 R97 for turning a blind eye to Jackson's pedophilia is to continue to worship at his phony altar, you people really need to find a more worthy hero, maybe one who doesn't rim 7 year olds.

R100 Just don't engage R99. It's obviously a troll.

I read that the parents didn’t come across very well before actually watching it. I fully expected horns and tails. What I saw were two stage moms who were also seduced by MJ. They’re NOT blameless, but they seemed sincere and regretful--after the fact--as they should be, but they were also manipulated. I mean...he communicated with the parents as much as he did the victims making them feel comfortable enough to lower their guard.

It is fucked up that they would let their kid sleep in the same bed with a grown-ass man, but he wasn’t just a grown-ass man. He was fucking Michael Jackson. You just know that he asked those parents if they could have a slumber party or something innocent and reassured them that everything would be okay because he got them a suite next door. I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch for the parents to assume that the biggest star in the world wouldn’t fingerbang their child with them on the same floor.

After watching this, I no longer think it’s as easy as “Why would a parent let their child…..” because there were layers upon layers upon layers of manipulation from Jackson. He makes you think that he’s as normal as a mega superstar ”without a childhood” could be. Who would imagine Jackson could be that fucking insidious?

The number he did on those families really should be studied.

they are paid bots. ignore their asses. or ban.

R102 I know they are trolls but it's fun to call them out, certainly not worth more than that. If they are paid I can't imagine their employers are pleased with their lack of impact here. I agree with you about the parents, Jackson groomed them as hard as the kids, and he persevered with them specifically because they were receptive, shitty as they are as parents the blame for the situation should rest on puppet-master Jackson's shoulders.

R102 and R103 Thanks, I put the troll on ignore.

R104 True, and don't expect them to answer any questions you have, about the NDC or FBI's failed investigation in the 80's etc. The list goes on and on and on.

yea, that's where the cock suckers belong...(no offense meant, im a dik sucker 2)

Yeah, I know what you mean R104. It is kinda fun going back and forth with trolls. I miss the days when they actually took pride in their work tho.

Nowadays, it’s just “Hit and run.”

They don't pay the bots good $....amateurs these here days.

Boycott the dam peddy !!!!

R96 I feel the same way when I see people saying that he substance abuse problems because he felt guilty . From all that I've seen I've never seen anything that suggests he felt guilty at all about the many horrible things he did, he truly seemed to believe that he didn't hurt those kids. I think it's more likely that the substance abuse was because of the reason you mention or a way for him to deal with his own childhood trauma and his self pity. He seemed to be a very self centred person.

May james and wade sue the shit out of the estate, they had to have sex with that ugly white fake woman peddy Jackson!

lets leave neverland behind.

fuk this shit!

For those who missed it, here's a free link to the entire "After Neverland" Oprah interview:

According to MJ cult members, Wade and James are doing this for money, so why did they wait so damn long? Wade could have gone after him for a multi million dollar payout in the 90s and not had to work another day in his life. So he wasn't greedy for money in his teens and 20s, then all of a sudden became greedy in his 30s? Doesn't make sense. A lot of these priest molestation victims don't come out until their 30s, 40s, and 50s.

The parents thought the guy in the Santa suit was actually Santa. So when the kids asked to stay with jolly, fun Santa for the night, they confused the Santa image/persona with the guy wearing the suit. What's the worst Santa can do to my kid? Put him on his knee and give him toys? Give him a tour of the Elves workshop? Come on, he's Santa. So what if he's got stacks of Hustler mags and BDSM videos in his bedroom?

Was just reading about Jackson on Buzzfeed and the comments were insane and in synch ( they are money grabbers, MJ won in court, proven liars, Orprah has an agenda, what about Weinsten? ) The fans are a very motley crew, of those posting with photos there are many middle aged women with thick glasses, split ends and a cat hurling abuse at victims of child sexual abuse, it's not a pleasant spectacle , but they are vastly outnumbered by sensible posters, I'm sure the ratio now , about 90/10 who believe Jackson was a pedophile, the rest are as lost as Trumps base.

One way to give MJ fans a way to express their revulsion of this documentary is to set up a GoFundMe account where the true-blue devotees can send money until they have exhausted their ire. Stated purpose of the fund: "the Society for the Preservation and Glorification of the Reputation of the Blameless Dead."

MJ's music all part of the seduction technique as well, everything from Thriller onward designed to get kids up and dancing. Those parents were seduced by fame as well. Families formally struggling to make ends meet, now loaded with champagne daily and designer shopping sprees. What fun! It was very telling to see how Wade Robson's mother had changed in the short time she lived at Neverland, by the time she finally went home to see her family she was totally brainwashed and her priorities in life changed. She walked off the plane looking like a 'Designing Women' clone with 1000 dollars hairstyle and haute couture designer bag, that was the persona she cultivated with Jackson, not the down to earth, family oriented woman who had left Australia. Totally gone.

I wish James Safechuck would write a book. I'm so curious to know more about his life post MJ. I wonder how his sexuality in general has been impacted by the abuse. From the story that his wife told about how they met, it was she who pursued him and it sounded like he just went along with it. No disrespect to her, but they aren't an obvious match in terms of physical attractiveness, which another poster who saw them in person over a decade a go commented on in one of the other Neverland threads. Granted, they do have three kids, but I wonder how he feels about sex and sexuality in general now. Do abuse victims who were hyper-sexualized as young adolescents become more promiscuous or sexually voracious as adults or is their libido somehow diminished as a result of residual psychological scaring? I know that everyone is different, which is why I'd be curious to see how it manifested for him. He also kind of comes across as harboring some lingering feelings of affection for Michael, as if he was the first and true love of his life. It's all very sad, yet intriguing.

R118 = Dolly Merriweather

As a kid, James had a little girlfriend at school and crushed on Sheryl Crowe, so I am not surprised he is married to a woman.

He did love Michael, he was groomed by a pedo. It does make people question their sexuality, which is another layer of damage to a kid.

I did not find his wife to seem like the warmest, most supportive person. Wade and his wife are in entertainment, so maybe that helps them present better. A poster on a prior thread said that James has a good support system. It is interesting that he told his family sooner than Wade and stopped defending Michael. Wade does come across as farther in processing all of it.

It was heartbreaking how they could suppress what happened until their love for their own sons broke through the programming from Jackson. Many child sex abuse victims come to terms with it much later in life. I hope all are able to find healing.

I have a relative who is an MJ stan. Last night she posted a link on Facebook to Taj Jackson's gofundme to raise money for a counter docuseries.

[quote]As a kid, James had a little girlfriend at school and crushed on Sheryl Crowe, so I am not surprised he is married to a woman.

Has Sheryl commented yet?

[quote]Have you guys Seen Yvette Nicole Browns Instagram, she blatantly tells everyone LOVE WILL WIN. MY IS INNOCENT. If you choose to stop following her, thats fine dont let the block button hit you on the way out. lol She blocked me as I told her she was a disgusting PIG!

Yvette worked on Nick shows produced by accused pedo Dan Schneider. It's not totally surprising she would defend MJ.

[quote]You talk of the Jackson family with respect [R97] but they are a ragbag of shameless grifters who haven't worked in decades and feed off the carcass of a dead pedophile.

Didn't one of the Jackson brothers get cut off and had to work a grocery store some years back?

R124, I am sure all the performers on the tour are bound by NDAs. What would she say except that she did not see anything? Best to stay out of it, no? Her name only came up as another way MJ fucked with the head of a little kid.

[quote] The funniest thing about MJ is I have read from black people, I support MJ I support my black brothers.... They are trying to keep the black man down and destroy his legacy... I find it hysterical! Even TI the annoyin country bumpkin rapper said the same. MJ wanted nothing whatsoever to do with the black race. Changed his nose completely, eyeliner, red lipstick, painted eyebrows. Didnt even want black kids, got white ones... but okay Black people, cape for someone who wanted nothing do do with his blackness. Didnt even want anything to do with his family except his mother, and here they all come defending him when MJ wanted nothing to do with them. its so funny!

A person I know posted something on FB chiding Oprah for daring to go against MJ. She said Oprah broke the "code of Wakanda" or some nonsense like that. This woman sees EVERYTHING through the lens of black versus white. Everything. She claimed that the charges against MJ are BS and one black celebrity should not be calling out another black celebrity. Massive eyeroll.

And, yes, she thinks that the Chicago PD are after Jussie as well, even though Chicago Police Department Superintendent Eddie Johnson is himself black, as is Cook County State's Attorney Kimberly M. Foxx -- who would never have brought charges if the evidence didn't exist. Doesn't matter -- they sold out to the white man.

I've lost all respect for Culkin. His parents were on the verge of eviction when he emancipated himself. I'm guessing both he and his folks got a substantial payoff from Jackson, same with Brett Barnes. This whole thing is so deeply sick. I would rather listen to Nickelback than Jackson at this point.

The Jackson family should all die in a fire. They tried to gain control of the estate after MJ died. They're just as guilty as Jackson. I hope they all die horrible deaths and in dire poverty.

He held dance contests to procure victims. So many people knew about this. SO many.

Interesting he was seven when his dad died & the cutest out of all the kids. I would not be surprised if Jackson molested him.

He called his kid "blanket." Let that sink in... Paris Jackson knows he is guilty.

Mo'Nique on Jackson and Oprah. No comment.

NDAs are SOP in Hollywood.

I hope more radio stations follow suit and stop playing his music. I do believe he molested these children and the public should not be able to rationalize why this man constantly needed these boys around him and to sleep with him. I was disturbed enough by th Martin Brasheer interview to know he was guilty back then. The surgeries and the crazy face makeup. The way he kept the kids wearing masks and they way he violently shook the one child with a veil over its face trying to give it a bottle were plenty for me to stop being a fan

The Jimmy Safechuck parts of the documentary made me so sad! Jackson fucked his life all the way up! I also hate how Liza Minnelli seemed to be complicit in his abuse. It didnt bother Liza that Michael was holding Jimmys hand like they’re in a courtship? So disgusting and despicable. Fuck that old asshole cunt Liza Minelli.

Seriously doesn't Taj Jackson and the rest of the clan have enough of Michael's money to afford to produce their own piece of propaganda

R134 What is it with Mo'Nique spittling on the camera throughout that interview?

R96, I agree that he didn't feel guilty. However, he didn't stop after that Jordan. Omer Bhatti and Gavin came after. The Casico brothers, Wade, Jimmy were still around too and who knows how many other unknown boys. When he lived abroad, I can only imagine. Rabbi Shmuley told him after Jordan's case that he can't be around children, but he didn't listen. He had a compulsion. It wasn't until after Gavin that he stopped parading these boys around. By then he had his kids, make of that what you will. I think by the time he died he was probably losing it because his career was in steep decline, he was going to do that tour that he wasn't in shape for and yeah, not being able to openly pursue boys took its toll.

Michael not only slept with Jordan in his house, but it was for 30 straight days.

Hi , what they really did find in neverland before 2005 trial? Radar publicated once somethng, but it was not fake?

The Jackson Estate must employ hundreds of people - accountants, lawyers, promoters, not to mention all the money that goes to the brothers and sisters and their families. Do they give any to victims of abuse? I doubt it.

Taj is a tool. He is employed by the Estate and thinks he knew Michael. The only times the Jacksons saw Michael was when he was on trial! LaToya told the truth several years ago but they made her recant. They are a fucked up pedo family.

I would not be at all surprised to learn that Macaulay Culkin has a trust set up by Jackson in exchange for his silence. Has Mia Kunis ever said anything? He is obviously one fucked up guy, with him and Paris sporting matching drug spoon tats and such.

I think Culkin and his family were paid off. .

[quote]I would not be at all surprised to learn that Macaulay Culkin has a trust set up by Jackson in exchange for his silence. Has Mia Kunis ever said anything? He is obviously one fucked up guy, with him and Paris sporting matching drug spoon tats and such.

I don't think Mila has ever said anything about Culkin and MJ. She has talked about Culkin in interviews. There was one where she said that she was an asshole to him. Culkin may never told her much about his friendship with MJ. When MJ died, Culkin and Kunis were still together and they were at that memorial.

I also wonder if Macaulay's brother Kiernan ever hung out at Neverland.

Did Jordie have to sign a NDA? Even if he told his story, the Jacksons would sue him!

Kieran Culkin has refused to talk about MJ. IMO Culkin was definitely molested. Heroin addict & he still smokes 60 cigarettes a day. Plus he is completely in a state of arrested development. It's all bad kid jokes and avoidance of any serious topics. He's a mess. I think both he and his family were bad off.

Yeh, Kieran did hang out at Neverland and states in interviews that MJ is not to be discussed

The weirdest he ever looked was during the Invincible era in 2001. He looked disfigured at that point.

Poor little Paris already had that cry-for-help look down. Poor kids

Paris Instagram stories are all her & a bong. I'm sorry I think she's a loser. He should have never have been allowed to breed via surrogate/sprem donor. What a disgusting freak show.

R133 More like cum rag than blanket.

R152 I have the feeling that Paris will die young of an overdose or suicide.

I, too, think Paris isn't long for this world. She's already tried suicide and has been institutionalized. I find her irritating at this point, but I wish her no ill will. I think these kids never had a chance.

Paris was molested by some of the jackson family? when I can read about it???

R120 I think Jimmy is gay. Just his mannerisms, voice, his sensitivity, gentleness (which he also had as a kid). Yes, he said he was interested in girls when he hit puberty. The thing is, lots of gays have girlfriends before figuring out their sexuality. There's nothing unusual about it. And yes, I'm aware he fathered three children. However, abuse has the ability to mess people up. I think he was never able or willing to deal with (or even confront) his own sexuality because it was tied up with the abuse. If he ever confronted it, it would lead him back to his time with Michael. It's interesting that in the interview with Gayle he said he asked himself if loving Michael meant he was gay. I have a feeling this is something his therapist will bring up and they will work on it together so he's able to confront his feelings. I doubt he's at that point yet though, first he has to properly deal with the abuse. From the looks of it he has a long healing process ahead of him. He still seems very tormented and broken over what happened. It will take a long time for him to recover. Also, if what I assume is right, that he is gay (or bisexual), then the fact that he has a wife and kids doesn't make it easier. He obviously loves them and don't want to hurt them. If he ever comes out it will probably be many years from now, probably when his kids are grown up. Or maybe he will live in denial until he dies, he wouldn't be the first to do it. I hope not though, he deserves to live openly and be happy.

R156 I don't think I've heard those rumors. I do recall some rumors that Joe Jackson molested some of his kids back in the 70s and a hotel employee walked in on an incident.

Paris said she was molested by someone she din't know. It's interesting that most of the Jackson boys have been molested including Taj. That family is a sea of dysfunction, cruelty and crazy. LaToya has never had a stable relationship.

r157, I wouldn't be surprised if he were gay or bi, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't interested in sex much whatsoever with anyone as he continues to processes his conflicted and unsettled feelings about his past.

I feel strongly that if you don't boycott Jackson's music you're complicit. Surely the line should be drawn at rimming 7 year old little boys?

I also remember Paris saying she'd been molested. She didn't go into detail but I thought it was someone in the family at large, not a close relative. I hope she finds someone who can help her grow out of this phase. She's walked a rough road. Gorgeous, rich but looking doomed at this point.

But there is some article or video on youtube when she mentions that?Please..

She claims it was a stranger.

[quote]There was another trauma that she’s never mentioned in public. When she was 14, a much older “complete stranger” sexually assaulted her, she says. “I don’t wanna give too many details. But it was not a good experience at all, and it was really hard for me, and, at the time, I didn’t tell anybody.”

She relapsed after this interview - Paris describes herself as “desensitized” to even the most graphic reminders of human mortality. In June 2013, drowning in depression and a drug addiction, she tried to kill herself at age 15, slashing her wrist and downing 20 Motrin pills. “It was just self-hatred,” she says, “low self-esteem, thinking that I couldn’t do anything right, not thinking I was worthy of living anymore.” She had been self-harming, cutting herself, managing to conceal it from her family. Some of her tattoos now cover the scars, as well as what she says are track marks from drug use. Before that, she had already attempted suicide “multiple times,” she says, with an incongruous laugh. “It was just once that it became public.” The hospital had a “three-strike rule,” she recalls, and, after that last attempt, insisted she attend a residential therapy program.

There was another trauma that she’s never mentioned in public. When she was 14, a much older “complete stranger” sexually assaulted her, she says. “I don’t wanna give too many details. But it was not a good experience at all, and it was really hard for me, and, at the time, I didn’t tell anybody.” After her last suicide attempt, she spent sophomore year and half of junior year at a therapeutic school in Utah. “It was great for me,” she says. “I’m a completely different person.” Before, she says with a small smile, “I was crazy. I was actually crazy. I was going through a lot of, like, teen angst. And I was also dealing with my depression and my anxiety without any help.” Her father, she says, also struggled with depression, and she was prescribed the same antidepressants he once took, though she’s no longer on any psych meds.

R160 I disagree about not having any interest in sex. He had enough interest in sex to father three children. I don't buy that he's now all of a sudden asexual because he was abused. Messed up, sure, but not asexual. I think he has buried his same sex feelings deep down and it will take years to uncover them, hopefully he will eventually though with the help of his therapist.

Prince seems to have his wits about him and prone to making trenchant remarks. Hopeful he can help her.

[quote]“Basically, as a person, she is who my dad is,” says her older brother, Prince Michael Jackson. “The only thing that’s different would be her age and her gender.” Paris is similar to Michael, he adds, “in all of her strengths, and almost all of her weaknesses as well. She’s very passionate. She is very emotional to the point where she can let emotion cloud her judgment.”

For the millionth time, Michael is not the bio dad of those kids. He didn’t want black kids and didn’t breed anyone. If Paris is like him, it’s upbringing/her choice.

Prince is a dolt. He posted ten tributes to Jacko's insane and abusive father on Instagram. He seems desperate for a stable family. The only reason the Jackson clan tolerates those kids is $$$$$

Michael hated black people. It's insane that he gets ANY support from the black community. Oh & he was a disgusting pedophile who shat himself for fun.

For the millionth time R168 we're not blind.

Does that mean Paris abuses and has sex with children just like Michael? I would love to her what they had to say after watching the documentary.

Black people do believe Michael is the actual father of those kids. They have weird defensive beliefs around Michael, like he was a God. It's disturbing.

R173 I remember some MJ fan site where they all believed MJ was the bio father of the kids. After MJ's death, the people on the site frequently said that Paris looked similar to how Rashida Jones looks and that was one of their defense tactics.

The MJ fans who believe that MJ is the bio kids reminds me a bit of that crazy Tamar Hodel lady who lied about having a biracial daughter who was adopted out to a black woman. The daughter Fauna Hodel ended up having identity issues because she was told since childhood that she was half black and it caused issues later on when she found out that Tamar lied to people in the hospital and on the birth certificate.

*Maybe* Blanket but the other two are too distinctly white.

Hello, 23 and me

I admit their interviews are compelling, but most documentaries do not feature actors, which they are (despite not being the most successful.)

However, the biggest hurdle that keeps me from saying "these two are likely telling the truth" (and none of us will ever know except for two people, one deceased) is their past actions, which suggest not just a nod to his innocence but fierce advocation for him well into adulthood.

Sure, I get some say they were "groomed," but decades of public support that survive death--until you sue for millions--is a damning credibility problem to have.

There are many clues that make MJ's behavior "suspect"--like the obsession with children and erratic behavior--but his accusers recall almost verbatim stories to those in the public record-and allege nothing new--this is also "suspect"-- begging for money and roles in your abuser's posthumous enterprise?

Michael Jackson enjoyed the presumption of innocence and even an acquittal while alive. No one can reasonably say beyond a doubt that he is guilty (and if you think you can, please inform the FBI and LEO immediately because they spent millions investigating and trying).

Did you even watch the documentary? They lied for him because they were in love with him, and they did not come to terms with it until later in life. Jimmy did tell Michael to fuck off when Michael begged him to lie again.

And what is your rationale for a grown man sleeping alone with a child for 30 days straight?

Oooh! You type DUMB, R177.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r177... Its quite simple and I quote : “I didn’t believe or understand that the sexual stuff that happened between Michael and I was abuse,” Robson explains in the documentary. “I didn’t feel like I was hurt by it, that it was anything bad that happened to me. At that point, it was: I loved Michael, Michael loved me, this was something that happened between us, that’s it. But I still had absolutely no understanding that I was affected, or any feeling that I was affected negatively.” This lack of understanding is common among survivors. When they begin the abuse, abusers may frame their actions as an expression of love. Throughout the documentary, Robson speaks about his relationship with Jackson in romantic terms. “There’s no question, I was head over heels in love with Michael,” he says at one point. Robson says that when Jackson was brought to trial, he was worried about Jackson. He didn't want Jackson to be hurt or killed in jail, and he didn't want Jackson's young children to grow up without their father.

Katelyn N. Brewer, president of Darkness to Light, explains, “Many times, there is confusion around what happened. People don’t think that what happened to them is actually abuse. You hear a lot that they felt love.” She points to the example of The Tale, the 2018 HBO movie based on writer/director Jennifer Fox’s own experiences of child sexual abuse. “The young girl considers this a relationship and her first real love.”

In the documentary, Robson says that when his son Koa was about a year and a half old, he began having intrusive thoughts of Jackson sexually abusing Koa, even though Jackson had died the year before Koa’s birth. “My immediate emotional reaction to having those images was just this rage and disgust and this violent feeling, like I would kill anyone who did anything like that to Koa,” Robson says. “What I started thinking was, How can I have such clear feelings — negative, horrible feelings — about the idea of that sexual stuff happening to Koa, but when I think about Michael and I and all that stuff going on, I don’t feel anything?” Robson decided to speak to a therapist about what had happened; it was the first time he told anyone about the abuse. He told his wife and siblings the same day he told his therapist, and went public with his accusations in 2013. “I had to defend the lie for so many years, and I didn’t want to do that anymore,” he explains in the documentary. “I was trying to declare this whole new life for myself based on the truth.”

YOU GOT IT NOW ?????

James Safechuck did not defend Jackson, fiercely or otherwise, as an adult. And calling him an actor is a real stretch--he did a handful of commercials as a child, that's the extent of his "acting" credits.

R177 is just spewing old talking points regardless of facts.

Wade dancing on stage with Michael in the docu was so sexual. I found that really disturbing. All the gyrating and pelvic thrusts. He was 7 years old for heaven sake. It's not cute. It's vile.

[quote]They’re NOT blameless, but they seemed sincere and regretful--after the fact--as they should be, but they were also manipulated.

Well yes, they too were groomed, but even now, after watching the documentary, you can see the streak of underlying selfishness in each mom that inevitably allowed for MJ to prey on their kids in the first place.

The fact that, according to what Jimmy stated on the Oprah interview, his mom was expecting his forgiveness after having watched the completed documentary, just shows how utterly clueless she still is in terms of taking responsibility for her own complicity in the events that happened to him. The idea that Jimmy could simply forgive her for indirectly contributing to a lifetime of abuse (physically, mentally and emotionally), after having watched a 4-hour Mea culpa, reveals to me show selfish she still is. It's an extremely selfish and self-centered expectation to even have. It's still about making HER feel better, not her own son.

And then you have Wade's mom--whoo--a woman who basically uprooted and destroyed her family for the chance at living the rich life vicariously through her son. Then at the end, when the truth is finally revealed to her, says SHE doesn't want to know or hear what happened to her son, because it would give HER nightmares. Like, WTF? What about your son's nightmares? He's the one who actually LIVED it! Again, selfish...all about how this affects HER, not her son.

I truly believe, even with MJ's superstar status, grooming, etc., less selfish parents would've stopped MJ's predation in its tracks.

And that's what they need to reckon with...Not the fact that they didn't protect their sons, because that's only a mere symptom of a much larger issue of being a selfish person at heart...selfish enough to put your needs, wants and desires above those of your child.

I don't think either Wade or Jimmy's moms have delved that deep yet.

I still wonder how they didn't understand what had happened to them was abuse when they recall their sexual experiences involving penetration and oral sex with such detail. I didn't understand what happened to me was abuse, but that's because any physical contact with me was made during roughhousing or while we were playing/wrestling. I feel like the documentary would have been more believable had they not made such outrageous claims, claims which have been echoed before. It's even more unbelievable when you consider that Wade was severely cross examined by the prosecution in 2005 in which he would have been asked about the sexual abuse he would continue to deny for several more years. I also don't buy that either of these boys harbored any romantic feelings toward Jackson as was claimed by Safechuck.

Post of the day, R184. That bothered me as well.

From the Michael Jackson tapes recording his discussions with Rabbi Shmuley Boteach re Adolph Hitler:

The singer, who died of heart failure in June aged 50, was also convinced that he could have cured the Nazi leader's evil, had he been alive to speak to him. He said that the dictator - responsible for the murder of 6 million Jews - needed "help" and "therapy".

Boteach then asked the star: "You believe that if you had an hour with Hitler you could somehow touch something inside of him?" Jackson replied: "Absolutely. I know I could."

He went on to argue that nobody is totally evil, adding: "You have to help them, give them therapy, teach them that somewhere, something in their life went wrong." Boteach, 42, who recorded more than 30 hours of interviews with Jackson, told The Sun: "Michael despised what Hitler had done. When it came to believing he could heal Hitler, that was hopeless naïvety."

[quote]Wade dancing on stage with Michael in the docu was so sexual. I found that really disturbing. All the gyrating and pelvic thrusts. He was 7 years old for heaven sake. It's not cute. It's vile.

I thought the same thing. It wasn't cute at all. I thought back to a period when I was a kid and a strict Baptist family lived in my neighborhood for a couple of years. This was the late 80s, anyway I was friends with two of their kids and I remember them telling me how MTV, certain movies and TV shows were banned in their household. They also said that their parents felt that children imitated celebrities too much. My parents weren't all that strict and back then I thought those parents were too strict. Years later, I understand the other parents' reasoning a little bit more.

Thank you, R184, you've inspired me to post something that keeps bothering me. MJ denialists complain endlessly that Robson and Safechuck are lying, but they never deal with the two mothers, who are portraits of smiling, numb obliviousness. If it's all a lie, what are the odds that BOTH men would have mothers who are (1) astonishing actresses and (2) willing to completely destroy their reputations by admitting that they pimped out their own children? It defies credulity.

I don't know why you don't believe that both Robson and Safechuck were completely under MJ's spell, R185. He groomed them, he spoiled them, made them mini-celebrities; he told them he loved them. It's completely believable that they could not understand that this was actually abuse. Their own mothers supported MJ's attempts to woo their sons.

What will the crazy Jacko fans do when Macaulay Culkin eventually tells the truth?

[quote]And then you have Wade's mom--whoo--a woman who basically uprooted and destroyed her family for the chance at living the rich life vicariously through her son. Then at the end, when the truth is finally revealed to her, says SHE doesn't want to know or hear what happened to her son, because it would give HER nightmares. Like, WTF? What about your son's nightmares? He's the one who actually LIVED it! Again, selfish...all about how this affects HER, not her son.

There was an article written in the 90s about the Robsons and it was mentioned that Wade was also going to auditions for acting gigs in audition to dance work and the failed rap duo group. It is clear that the mom hoped other things would bring in cash. Another sad thing is that there are other stage moms who have done or do the same crap Wade's mom did. They uproot or split the families just for one kid and they don't realize how fucked up the entertainment industry. If you read up some on some of the other backgrounds of some former or current child actors, the stories are usually that some of the actors lived away from LA or NYC and they had interest in acting so the whole family or part of the family moves for the kid and half of the time the parents or other family members take financial advantage of the kids. Then there is the big issue of pedos working in the business as execs, producers, and actors.

MJ’s fans seem very interested in calling his MANY accusers liars but very disinterested in facts or explaining his behavior. This makes me think they are tools for the estate and completely shallow and stupid.

R192 What facts are there? You're making a judgement on whether these men are credible based on their testimony, not facts. In fact, many who have been confronted with inconsistences and contradictions in their depositions/testimony have not come up with facts to explain it, just more emotional appeals. How is this different than the MJ stans who assume only the best intentions to every single thing he ever said?

MJ has explained his behavior. Whether you believe him is up to you, but don't pretend that you're on the side of facts. Most viewers are emotionally manipulated to believe one side or another.

He definitely molested Culkin, and it was common knowledge in the industry. Why do you think they wouldn't let him anywhere near young Daniel Radcliffe?

r185., yawn.... read r181...

r194... Also saw how in 1997 MC was having financial issues, etc. I bet he was paid much for his silence.

173 - Non black people like you are going to have to start qualifying your "black" statements up on this site soon. It will have to be "some", "the majority of black people online seem to", " the sites that I have visited with black people on it," etc, etc.

No black person in my life, family, online believes that those children are his blood kin, you div. It is quite possible to slag Michael Jackson and not imagine that the whole of the black people in the whole world check for him. I know black people who stopped checking for him and any black celebrity who got a Jheri Curl. I know black people who stopped checking for him when he got his first, still having signs of a "black" nose , nose job and he was still dark skinned then. I know black people who stopped checking for him when his music got "non black". I know black people who stopped checking for him when he got his hair straightened. So many stopped and watched the spectacle unfold and stopped checking for him when his skin turned white by the "Bad" album and the music definitely went downhill. I am sorry that your glad to find a legitimate purview from which to slag black people self has got your arse trolled by many of us. You really think that black people believe that those children are his blood kin and those same people are not crazy in other areas of their lives? You best to hush your mouth about "black people", because I know a non black person like yourself hardly knows any yourself to stereotype us from. You would have got your "white man wake up call" a LOOOONG time ago for your utter renkness.

Michael Jackson is a paedophile and you can fuck yourself to hell along with him. The power of having more than one thought and being able to express it in one sentence is a beautiful thing, aint it? Something is wrong with so many people on this site. Weinstein assaults and the whole of the Jewish race is monstered. The only people who are non Aryan who may get defended unambiguously are POC who are Muslim. They best not be "Non Continental African" black Muslim, though. And Let's not act like white Muslims are in the mind's eye of those "defenders", either. Just like Ethiopian provenance Jews are not considered when Jews are slagged to hell and back , here either. Please choose a "racist" lane to stay in and finesse it. I may have been brought up having to finesse "white" code switch from every Anglo speaking country and having to know the" bad words" for "black" in every European language speaking country that I visit, but Lord, I need a break after near fifty years, because I am not earning psychologist money for having to act like one in order for my black arse to live in this world and not under the gravel., taking many of you along with me. Stop testing people. You never know who is the Stepping Razor beside you. That's for everybody of every race and creed.

R177 here. I'll address some of your comments aimed at me rationally.

R181 -Correct me if I'm wrong please, but is the gist of his story not "I didn't know being kissed + rimmed + fondled by MJ was abuse until my therapist told me?” He was well into adulthood at this point. Surely you can see that this is unconvincing to many of us. That does not make people deluded fans or blind to the truth.

R178 - Many of you zealously believe that Safechuck's father recalling that MJ kissed his kid on the lips is proof he is being truthful. But you all leave out that he would qualify this by saying there was no abuse or sexual motivation whatsoever.

This brings me to another interesting split. Supporters believe the accuser’s willingness to sell out their parents as money-hungry enablers of MJ’s alleged abuse makes them truthful. But opponents say only the most desperate of people would turn on them years later to make claims that contradict not only themselves, but demonize their own family.

I don't care if MJ buys you a house or not—if we take what the Safechuck accuser is saying at face value, then we must believe a grown man (dad) let a pedo make out with and abuse his son for what... a house and money? Some of you inevitably believe this but others (myself included) do not find it reasonable.

R182 I said he was an actor, adding the qualifier of "child" does not erase that. Neither does a lack of success.

R185 I agree. “I always remembered the ‘abuse’, but didn’t see it as such and thought it was consensual love” is only a step up from what I said in response to R181. You--as an adult-- did not realize that anal penetration with a child was abuse, and are just now deciding it was not love? This is also unconvincing to me and others, and like the other points you all keep bringing up as definitive proof, do not make those who are on the other side "deluded fans" or blind to the truth .

R198 "But you all leave out that he would qualify this by saying there was no abuse or sexual motivation whatsoever. " No, we dont. He said that for purpose. To justify his ( having a home for free) and MJ's behavior/

R197 is WOKE!

[R199] The dad said exactly: 'If at any time I had thought there was something wrong going on, I don't care if there was God in there, they would answer to me directly.'

r198 . Clearly in r181 you didnt read Katelyn N. Brewer, president of Darkness to Light, explains, “Many times, there is confusion around what happened. People don’t think that what happened to them is actually abuse. You hear a lot that they felt love.” She points to the example of The Tale, the 2018 HBO movie based on writer/director Jennifer Fox’s own experiences of child sexual abuse. “The young girl considers this a relationship and her first real love.”

It wasnt until the birth of Wades son, that he became sick, and would kill anyone who would do the same to his son. Yet he didnt understand why he felt nothing about what MJ did to him... its called GROOMING, CONDITIONING. MANY CSA go through the exact same thing... Many years years to process. But I keep hearing you say, this would be more believable, because XYZ. bitch bye! Because you had a certain thing that happened, and you 'knew' it was wrong, doesnt make it universal. I can hear your MJ records playing in the background!

R201 Yeah, sure . Did he see something wrong with getting a house for free?

r198 You say its unconvincing to many of 'us'... AND ITS CONVINCING TO MANY ! So? I guess you can go now. lol

Does anyone have any recent pics of updates on Jonathan Spence? I hope he’ll come out and tell his story.

r198... LOL why are you trying to find reason> DO YOU THINK PEDOPHILIA is reasonable? I guess all the testimony, all the behavior MJ exhibited, all the signs, his sleeping in bed he admitted, I guess those werent enough to point to smoke.... But here you go with I need reason.. maybe a video... How can CSA not know its abuse... yet you have dont no research on the impact of CSA survivors and how Wade and Safechuck are carbon copy for survivors who protect their abusers! Its really not hard!

[R202] How do you figure that I clearly did not read her quote - I read it.

From their website, "Katelyn is a graduate of Wheaton College in Boston, MA with a Bachelors in International Relations and French." She is not qualified to make those statements but pretend she is for a moment.

Obviously many victims of abuse are brainwashed, and this can last for years including into adulthood- but Safechuck is 41 and the other accuser is 38. Many years past the extended statue of limitation to make these desperate money grabs.

R206 - I am not trying to find reasons to justify sexual abuse. The people who make accusations two decades are fiercely claiming otherwise are required to provide reasons. I am asking obvious questions in response to those reasons and have clearly hit a nerve with you.

"We all wanna touch children sometimes, it's only natural!"

Who the hell believes whatever Michael said were facts? That whole family is a bunch of fucked up liars.

R204 - What is your point? Obviously a large number of people believe MJ is innocent. Likely many more than those who believe his is guilty.

More lies. The majority of people have common sense and identify Michael as a pedophile.

is there a gofund me to advertise what a rat bastard peddy he was? big billboards in all major citys.

Obviously, a case were child sexual abuse happened just two or three times is bad enough, but these men state that their abuse continued for years on end - YEARS. That's a relationship. It was no wham, bam, thank you man situation. I'm sure that it must have progressed to the point where the kids were actually seeking it out - they knew what to expect. What's hampering their claims? Well, those who believe them let the facts speak for themselves no matter those facts remain unspoken. They profited. They got paid to keep their silence. You know this. They know we know this, but it's something they cannot admit to.

R185 & R198 clearly know more than all of the child sex abuse survivors, therapists and experts on the subject. I mean, their genius is overwhelming.

The now thousands of people who came forward in their late adulthood to expose the pedophila rampant in the Catholic Church must all be lying because how did they all not realize it was abuse sooner?

"And I loved him, and I wanted his attention. And he took that adoration, and he started abusing me. It was around the age of 8. And it went on for probably three or four years. He would literally abuse me in the basement of our house, and then go up and have dinner with my parents. ...

I kept it inside, and I didn't even recognize it for myself, but it affected my entire life. ...

I think what happened is, I came across a picture of myself with my perpetrator at the age of 48, and everything came flooding back. And I went into a deep depression, and I felt life was hopeless. I wanted to commit suicide. I just didn't want to be here anymore."

She must be lying, right? It took her FORTY whole years to figure it out.

R214

Tom Mesereau: “Mr. Robson, did Michael Jackson ever molest you at any time?”

Wade Robson: “Absolutely not.”

~Wade Robson (under oath), 2005

Im in for putting up big ass ads showiin what a fuk he was...

wade dint want his friend to die in jail

he said he regrets sayin what he said u ass holes !!!!

Wade has already admitted he lied under oath. Trying to hang your hat on this is weak and shows your ignorance.

r219 Lying to protect someone he had a sick love relationship with, didnt want him to get hurt in prison, die, his kids lose their father. Go play Thriller!

How come no one in the music or entertaining biz is supporting MJ now? He had been around for decades. The silence is because they knew he was a ped. The only people supporting MJ are a few family members who benefit from his will.

R215 it's interesting how you abandoned your previous point. Now you are trying to attach credibility from Catholic sex-abuse survivors to these two MJ accusers.

The Church covered up -but collected- years of facts and evidence about these priests. They knew they were pedos, had evidence, and did nothing. They moved them around to different dioceses and were complicit in keeping the victims silent.

The MJ accusers supported Jackson for many years, well into his death, and sought financial and work experience from his family and estate. There is no factual evidence of their abuse (unlike the multitude of records harbored by the Catholic Church). They lied under oath, demonized their family, and have filed lawsuits (dismissed) to seek money. Their claims are emotional, and it's an insult to victims of these priests to even suggest these claims are any way analogous to their very real and clear abuse.

I don’t think these stans have even watched the documentary. They seem invested in Michael’s innocence rather than facing reality. I think they are estate shills or emotionally stunted.

It's all bullshit. They lied under oath because they knew they would be compensated for doing it. All the other shit is just that - bull shit. They got paid, and even Safechuck's mother told us that MJ forgave the debt they owed him on the house which I'm sure was a damned nice house. AND that's fucking southern Cali real estate, so pretty damn pricey too. They got PAID.

u cant argue with these fuks who are hired by the estate/sony to protect his image. jus make fun of their dumb fuk asses...

they sellin their soul for mimimum wage....JACKSONS DONT PAY GOOD

r224 YEAH probably got paid TO KEEP A SECRET. I know and bet Macaulay did as well!!!!! and?? Does that mean MJ didnt do anything?

When you even mention any of the following in this thread:

"bulletproof" reasons why he MUST be guilty, lack of any hard evidence in accusers' favors evidence including claims from the accusers vindicating MJ proof of the accusers' money problems/lawsuit, etc

You must be a paid shill...on DL no less.

R219 You can't even see the irony in your own statement, can you?

R222 is a trollbot who thinks we won't notice his moving the goalposts.

The Catholic Church's conduct and the other evidence does not change the FACT that many of the priest abuse survivors, like the woman I quoted in R215, did not recognized what they experienced was abuse until well into adulthood. This despite your ridiculous claim that such a similar realization by Wade and James makes them NOT credible.

You also keep falsely insisting that "The MJ accusers supported Jackson for many years, well into his death, and sought financial and work experience from his family and estate." James Safechuck did not. Jordie Chandler did not. Others did not.

You're a shill and it's obvious. Troll better.

R223, they didn't. They keep falsely conflating James and Wade as if they behaved the same. They focus on Wade because of his testimony in 2005 and don't actually know what James said or what his experience was.

I knew a girl, who was sexually abused by her uncle from the age of 7 - 12... it wasnt a ' oh we were roughhousing type thing' it was for years! They come from a rich southern family. The uncle was the golden child of the family. The most successful, took care of everyone. To her, with no context to prove otherwise, it was a normal, loving, healthy relationship. She was groomed well. She even found 'pleasure in it'. It wasnt until she was 38, she had her first and only child, a daughter, she began having anxiety attacks, and felt sick to her stomach about someone doing what her uncle did to her, to her daughter. It was like a tsunami hit her after all these years... She got into therapy, and finally started to process what happened to her. She was in denial, that the abuse had any impact on her life, because it wasn't this traumatic thing, stolen in the night, but she finally sees it differently now, only because imagining someone doing that to her daughter, caused her to face somethings she was in denial about.

You seem dense so I will explain: You can’t call Wade a liar and then try and say he was telling the truth under duress. Either you think he’s a liar or telling the truth to fit your weak argument.

Here's the thing about a lie.

You can make it pretty, excuse it, justify it, paint it, minimize it, and do everything else to it, but lying costs you credibility.

When you have no hard evidence, and your only defense is "believe me," it's best to not have a bunch of lies haunting you.

You queens can chat on here all day about how devastated you are that these two are being criticized for their past lies. But in the end, the Jackson family is laughing all the way to bank.

Is that all that matters to you? Thanks for sharing your values.

You MJ stans can post false information all you want, but all you do is demonstrate how little of the actual facts you know.

Once James Safechuck got away from Michael, he refused to lie for him. James completely blows up your story that "these accusers" kept defending him into adulthood and for money. None of your spin applies to James.

Wade’s mother was absolutely complicit. She knew something was wrong very early on when their room kept getting further away from Michael’s. Your hackles should be up If anyone is trying to seperate you from your child. To leave him unattended at Neverland was a clear signal she was Pimping him out. Even today she doesn’t actually want to know what the abuse entailed. Just an awful person.

Add me to the list of people who think Wade’s dancing was highly inappropriate. A 7 year old humping the floor? Yuck.

The way Jimmy speaks in such a soft way reminds me of MJ. I wonder if he even realises it. If these two were ‘married ‘ then I think something similar happened with Culkin. He feels he is part of the family and probably has the mentality of an ex wife. That combined with the obvious payout he gets from the estate - I think it would take something really shocking (like Paris dying) to get him talking.

It blows my mind that half this thread misspelled attacks on people who don't believe these guys as paid shills while the guys you're supporting are actually paid shills along with their family.

R216- yeah, so? He admitted he lied and stated the reasons he did so. Is that all you got?

R190 I wouldn't be surprised by a spate of suicides among them. Some of them treat him as a literal god and they see the world as evil for persecuting him so that would be the final straw for them. The ones that go on the attack are more worrying, didn't Jordy say that some fan try to run him over during the original trial? Or was that something else?

R230

R235

R238

"Okay, one is kinda not credible and he admitted he lied but the other debunks all of that!" Whatever.

Michael Jackson suffered from the skin discoloration disease vitiligo. Jordie Chandler drew a picture of the markings on the underside of Jackson’s penis. His drawings were sealed in an envelope. A few months later, investigators photographed Jackson’s genitalia. The photographs matched Chandler’s drawings.

R240 most of that post is about Wade, and what little is there about James actually misrepresents several things James said. But you wouldn't know, since you don't actually know what he said.

But keep trying, you just keep showing your ignorance.

If they were after money only they would have extorted Michael years ago. Michael was a habitual pedophile. End of story.

Fascinating link R240. It looks like the truth is slowly starting to come out. Of course if you confront any of these people attacking Jackson with any of the facts from that link, a typical response would be, "They want money but could also be telling the truth about the abuse." Not likely in my opinion.

^ Of course if you confront Jackson defenders with the inaccuracies in that link, they just ignore them.

How did Jordie Chandler know what Jackson's penis looked like? Lucky guess?

The maid picked up the boys discarded underwear. The cook saw Michael's hand down Culkin's pants, Latoya said he molested boys, Anthony Pellicano talked about pay offs, and 4 boys have said it he molested them. Some others have made veiled statements indicating inappropriate behavior by Michael. Are all these people lying and only Michael is telling the truth? He even admitted he sleeps with boys, holds hands with them. The creepy faxes, audio and videotapes were practically love letters. Look at the man's face! I don't know how anyone could defend him and on top of that make up lies about the boys.

THE JURY SPEAKS at 9pm!

R242 There is little about James at R240, but Wade Robson is not a credible accuser.

Robson is credible. He clearly explains his reasons for defending Jackson. My God, he was sexually abused by that pedo from the age of seven. He didn’t get a chance to grow into a well adjusted person, his emotional attachment to Jackson was the only way he could handle the sexual contact. Robson didn’t want to defend Jackson at the last trial, his bitch mother insisted along with Jackson threatening him too.

Look at the reaction from his family, his older brother and his wife in particular. The last half hour of the doco is devastating. Wade was abused, he just presents in a tougher manner to James, that’s all.

Not to mention, Jackson flew Robson and his family from Australia to California, shared a bed with Robson for weeks on end, took him on tour with him where the two shared hotel beds, faxed him love notes, and moved him from Australia to California. Come on! Robson isn’t some whack job claiming an insider relationship that wasn’t real. All of the things I just mentioned are verifiable. Robson was an insider. He was extremely close to Jackson. He idolized him from the age of two. It makes more sense for him to have covered for Jackson than not.

They know the truth, but cant face it....fuk em

Those who are harping about Wade testifying in 2005 should try to put yourself in his shoes. He decides he doesn't want to testify, but is subpoenaed so he has no choice. He loves Michael and has been groomed to to see the two of them as against the world, together. And that they will both go to jail for life if anyone finds out. He also knows that everyone will hate him if he comes forward. He's never told a soul about the abuse, and he doesn't really see it as abuse. He has no support system at all. If you were 21 with all that, of course you would perjure yourself.

And even if Wade isn't credible, all the reasons for not believing him simply don't apply to James. So over and over again we see this obvious trick of conflating the 2 but attacking only Wade with specificity.

Perfect example: Jackson's (now disbarred) attorney Brian Oxman attacked BOTH Wade and James in the press, calling them liars. But in detailing why "they" aren't credible, he only talks about Wade. He literally says NOTHING about James.

The items of interest found in Neverland raid are

‘Boys Will Be Boys’ – a book featuring nude photos of boys; ‘The Boy, A Photographic Essay’ – another book featuring nude photos of boys; A photograph of a boy, believed to be Jonathan Spence, fully nude; and A photograph of a young boy holding an umbrella, wearing bikini bottoms partially pulled down.

Also found (and this is enough to conclude he most certainly wasn't heterosexual):

Tom Bianchi's Bob and Rod photo book.

The parents definitely have to share the blame. Not for a minute do I believe any of them were blind to what was going on. That's what must bother those boys the most. They were unknowing partners in a Faustian bargain between Michael Jackson and their mothers. This thirty-something beige pop star moves into your son's bedroom for 30 days straight. Hey no problem. Yet the mother's can try to justify their blindness by saying that their son told them over and over that nothing bad was happening, to go away and leave them alone. The footnotes are the two fathers who committed suicide over the whole thing -- Evan Chandler and Dennis Robson.

R198 You are a bad person. Look in the mirror and say "I'm a bad, morally bankrupt person." You will finally be saying something true. People like you make the world a less good place. We are poorer for having heard your stupid opinions/rationalizations/justifications.

It was an intentional message when Robson and his mother made the move to the US, and Jackson sequestered them both in a budget motel apartment for a while with no contact. He was clearly stating "if you wanna be with me, you have to earn it".... Robson's mother (like a blood hound) could smell the money from 7,5000 miles away and was eager to have her son back in Jackson's inner circle by any means necessary.

Is Wade still working in the dance industry? What does he do now?

R216 meaningless. We know that male victims of sexual abuse very often lie about it. We know that MJ threatened, cajoled, and put pressure on these boys to lie from an early age.

Fact is, Wade's denials never had the ring of truth. However, in Leaving Neverland, he seemed 100% credible. And all the facts we know corroborate what he said. And James is 100% credible.

R250 R251

MJ's former legal team all believe he is lying. You repeat all this emotional nonsense about why you believe him-- all your opinion, but it does NOT make him credible. Think about this:

Why would Michael and his legal team put Wade on the stand during his 2005 trial if there was even the slightest risk to Wade admitting MJ molested him, too? If MJ was a serial predator, he would have avoided having an actual victim anywhere near that trial - a trial for his life.

R260 "He seemed credible." There you have it--the sum total of his proof after years of denials. Ask the jury in 2005 right after this incident and I'm sure they would say the exact same thing.

No r261. Jackson had already proven that he was addicted to extremely risky behavior. He needed Wade, believed he could control Wade, and likely got a thrill out of it all, knowing he was going to get away with it AGAIN, and he brazenly used one of his “lovers” to help him do it too, how breathtaking!

They were able to put Wade on the stand because he didn't want to jeopardize both Michael's life (he would die in jail) and his family's good fortune.

'Jackson gifted Safechuck's parents a $100,000 Rolls Royce, prompting his manager at the time, Frank DiLeo, to suggest Michael cut ties with Jimmy because their relationship was starting to look inappropriate. Jackson refused and told him to mind his own business.' They also got twin Mercedes and their mortgage paid off in full.

What about the Jesus Juice?

R255 This is years old debunked news. All the material obtained was legal, and only 2 out of the 10,000 books in Jackson's library contained naked children, one of which was given to him by a fan, the other can still be bought legally on Amazon.

People attack Wade's credibility as purely as deflection. Jackson himself had massive credibility issues. He admitted to abusing prescription drugs for years. He lied under oath in several business-related lawsuits, repeatedly "forgetting" that he had signed contracts and promissory notes. He lied repeatedly about his plastic surgery; his explanation for the extensive work on his nose changed several times. His hollow denials of ever sexually abusing children, combined with his amazing, overtly romantic behavior in public with his favorite boys, speaks for itself.

Was Elvis a pedophile? Are we going to remove his music from existence and stop playing his movies on TV? If we're doing this housecleaning, why not make a thorough one.

Now you’ve really gotten stupid. Do you think Michael Jackson would have admitted anything to his fucking legal team, R260? His legal team would have been fed the same bullshit Jackson tried to feed the world. So of course they’d have no reason to fear that the witness who gave testimony as a little boy would suddenly turn on him.

R262- the facts back Wade up. What do you have to say about verifiable facts? Sleeping in the same bed for weeks at a time at the age of seven, for example. That happened. Jackson himself said it happened. That alone backs up Wade’s statements. A whole lot of celebrities and rich folks love children and want he help them. Look at Michael Jordan. Look at Jon Legend. Look at Jay-Z and Beyoncé. All kinds of charities and educational programs, community centers, etc. set up to help children. That’s how they express their love of children. What they don’t do is pick one pretty, middle class white kid and take him to bed. Come the fuck on. Grow up.

Here is a clip of Wade, age 7, dancing in Oz just prior to going to the US and prior to being sexually assaulted. His dancing is not overtly sexual here. Just a short time later, the gyrations, humping the floor, etc, tell a very different tale. This very small kid had an adult MJ shoving his erect penis into his mouth in a matter of weeks. Absolute depravity.

I do not understand the strong desire by some for James to come out as gay?

When his wife said something like, our lives are heavier now, I cringed. Hope she is a supportive person who spoke awkwardly.

[quote]Is Wade still working in the dance industry? What does he do now?

His IMDB page lists an some kind of upcoming dance documentary. I think he lives in Hawaii and was said to be teaching dance workshops. His sister Chantal has worked for years in the industry and choregrapher and producer. She is producer on NBC's World of Dance.

I wonder why he was always only with white boys.

His wife is also a dancer and choreographer.

Upon learning that Wade was preyed on by MJ she banned his mother from their home and from contact with her son. She was furious that Wade had not been protected. He is lucky to have picked someone so supportive.

Ohhhh these guys just must be telling the truth about that awful pedo Jackson!

We are the smart ones! The FBI and those jurors were paid schills.

How dare the rest of the world not see the cover up! I'm so mad!

Well, erm yes one lied but that was grooming, Michael made him!

I didn't believe that first lie anyway...sounded rehearsed!

Oh yes yes you see some boys don't remember getting a bj from pop stars until 38 or so!

Different accounts, discrepancies? How could you not believe them!

They were broken I tell you, broken on that docu!

Look at how priests brainwashed boys. This is the same I tell you, we don't need the proof!

Oh my God, stop mentioning all the perjury and different conflicting accounts!

That judge who said no rational person would believe Wade's lies is a secret MJ fan!

Believe me believe me you horrible evil person you! How could you be so blind!

the hell with it. boycott the ass sukiin peddy and let the estate dry up and blow away.

like to see all his victims sue the shit out of the estate/sony….Katherine and clan are known for spending $100 000 a week on shopping. GOOD GOD

R272, apparently MJ's first "close friend" was Emmanuel Lewis, who is black, and who, disturbingly, looked much younger than his actually age. MJ carried Lewis around like a baby.

Brandi claims that MJ had no affinity for blacks. Read it here.

What’s that phenomenon where someone is so stupid they think they’re smart? R274 brings it to mind.

R274, Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson got off too. The justice system isn't infallible. You seem to forget Jordan Chandler. Why did Michael settle and pay him 20 million dollars? Why did the maid see him showering with boys? His cook saw him molest boys. Answer the questions instead of repeating that tired mantra.

Justice works!

Do we know what Wade’s mother was gifted for getting him to testify that second time?

R279 Let's take a trip back in time to Chandler's 1993 lies! Michael is innocent and resting in peace. His accusers are in torment on earth, still grasping for that final dollar.

Jackson WANTED to pay the Chandlers $23m because he loved children SO MUCH!

duh....he bleached his face whiter than my aunt Bessie ...yet the blacks still were behind him...why?????

HE HATED HIS RACE....GIT REAL MARYS

R284 "The blacks." You can them that like it's unbelievable that black people would put evidence and proof over the ever changing and emotional lies of middle-aged white men on HBO. Get outta here!

I think the subpoena was the driver the second time, no? Not the mother?

His father was bipolar and offed himself once the remaining kid flew off to the States to be a MJ hanger on. Not at all the fault of young kid Wade, but another way MJ cost them all a lot. His mother told a story of her own father asking at the airport if she had lost her mind. It is all very sad.

His money and celebrity were unique but the script he used with each was the same and is pretty much the same for any child rapist. The mind fucking is really hard to undo, esp as this WAS the first romantic relationship for these little boys. They had no experience in life or watching peers to guide them through it. Not only did he have sex with them and scramble their perceptions, he replaced each one regularly then made them compete for his attention and sex acts. Layer upon layer of manipulation using some of the most powerful neurotransmitters and bonding hormones known to humans, along with the primal fear of being cast out. Hell is too good for MJ.

It is clear he was fucked with by adults as a child and he paid it forward. R. Kelly and Chris Brown were also sexually assaulted as kids, and look how that has turned out. Wade and James are working hard to break the cycle and to raise awareness. Given how much shame and secrecy surround childhood sexual abuse, it is extremely brave of them to have come forward, it is a worldwide story. I hope that they are able to heal and find peace and that they continue to have stable, functional adult lives.

There is no evidence and proof that he is innocent. I haven't heard one argument in his defense except that Wade is a liar. That's opinion, not proof or fact. The maid saw 7 year old Wade in the shower with him. Bring me witnesses that say Wade is lying and then you can talk.

Sick

Spence

omg u jus know pedo jacko molested all them white boys

Never in history has a peddy been so open bout his lust for young boys, walking hand in hand round the world with em for 25 yrs....showin off.

so bizarre....oh but he king of pop,,,,

king of kock...

Good long piece that ran in VF

Another VF piece

R262 The fact that at that point you're attempting to score rhetorical points rather than get at the truth of the matter tells me you're full of shit. You like Michael Jackson's music, it was meaningful to you in your life. Michael Jackson was a serial child molester. Both can be true. That fact that he made great music that was the soundtrack to many people's lives doesn't mean he wasn't a serial child molester.

The fact that he was acquitted by a jury in 2005 also has no bearing on whether or not he was a serial child molester. OJ Simpson was acquitted. Robert Blake was acquitted. Guilty people go free every single day in this country for myriad reasons.

Michael Jackson was a musical genius, and also a genius at molesting children. After the Jordy Chandler disaster, he started targeting children who's family lives were a mess. Children of divorce, children who's parents were having financial problems, children who's parents could easily have their credibility questioned should they ever tell the truth about what was happening to their child at his hands. That is partially why he was acquitted in 2005. And also because a person who'd been brainwashed and had drills, and was threatened for most of his life not to tell the truth lied.

I've seen interviews where Wade denied being molested. He always seemed like he was lying in those. In Leaving Neverland, he didn't seem like he was lying at all.

I know Michael Jackson is guilty because I have a brain, ears and eyes. All of the words Wade and James said in Leaving Neverland rang true. Everything they said is 100% corroborated by recordings that were made, notes that were written, what others around them remembered about the time, and what Jordan Chandler and that other kids said when they were interviewed. Nothing there contradicts what Wade and James said in Finding Neverland. No thinking, intelligent person can listen to James and think he's lying.

I'm the person who has encountered James in my social circle. Early on, I was told "He doesn't like to talk about Michael Jackson, but had has said nothing happened." As I got to know James more and more, it was very clear to me that he was a troubled soul. I used to think "If nothing happened, why does he not like to talk about him?"

When it finally came out, it made all the sense in the world to me. It was like a huge piece of the puzzle that fit exactly in place. This happened. As sure as the sky is blue. The way James was, the way he behaved finally made sense.

R262 You are clearly a fan of MJ's music. You either think he's actually innocent (in which case you're an idiot) or you think he did it, but you don't care because 'he was so talented, and the kid's parents allowed it, so who cares?' In which case you're just amoral.

I hope you are young, and will get over this nonsense. You are really no different from a Trump supporter.

I'm happy that you're here to stand up for Jimmy, R294 I hope he and his family are okay and not being harassed by the psycho stans.

Wade and his family were also vulnerable due to immigration status. That was another huge means of control MJ held over them.

R294, I hope that James has caring supportive people around him. His wife did not come across as one in the doc but maybe she is better in real life. I hope all victims of child harm find healing and peace.

R294 I can tell you that James has a BIG, supportive family all around Southern California. He has an excellent support system- and people who have been there for him and continue to be.

His wife is a very nice person and they care about each other very much. This is a lot to handle for both of them, and obviously more than she bargained for. But again, he has supportive family and she is as welcome as he is.

[quote]yet the blacks still were behind him...why?????

All the black people I've talked to have said that exact same thing, 'where were the parents'? The first time I was allowed to sleepover at someone's house, I was 12. And even then my Mother did everything, except an FBI background check on my friend's parents. You just don't turn your kids over to anyone, unless you are complicit and are using those kids for cash and prizes. Whatever Michael Jackson was in this rehash of a rehash of a rehash, the parents were worse.

From Reddit:

FACT-BOMB: The evidence the media refuses to show you about Michael Jackson’s accusers

I’ve felt total and utter shame at my industry as the coverage of tonight’s Michael Jackson TV show has grown increasingly dishonest and dangerous. I’ve worked in the media since I was a teenager. The whole media knows these two men are liars. But that’s not good for clicks or ratings.

For five years, these men have been suing Michael Jackson’s estate for hundreds of millions of dollars. This lawsuit has generated thousands of pages of court records: witness statements, motions, depositions and disclosure. These public documents PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt that the men are lying. The whole media knows about these documents, but is refusing to report on their contents. I’ve tried not to fill my Facebook feed with posts about this, but you are all being lied to from every direction. So this is my contribution to the debate on Facebook – a list of just some of the public record information the media is refusing to tell you.

Continued

Both men strenuously defended Jackson, including under oath, for decades, and only decided they’d been molested years after his death, when they were both in financial trouble and filed a lawsuit seeking hundreds of millions of dollars. That lawsuit was thrown out of court – twice – but the men are in the middle of an appeal, giving them a gigantic financial motive to lie.

Since filing their lawsuit, both men have repeatedly changed their stories, frequently telling directly contradictory versions of the same supposed events. For example, Wade Robson has told at least four directly contradictory stories about the first time Jackson supposedly abused him.

In the lawsuit, Robson was caught lying under oath so brazenly that the judge threw out his entire witness statement and said no rational juror could ever believe his account.

Between 2012 and 2014, Robson wrote two drafts of an abuse memoir and tried unsuccessfully to sell them to publishers. Meanwhile, he lied under oath and said he’d never discussed his allegations with anyone except his lawyers. When the Jackson estate discovered he’d actually been shopping books, the court ordered him to produce the drafts as evidence. They revealed the story of his abuse had changed significantly from one draft to the next.

Robson was also ordered to release his emails as evidence. He breached the order repeatedly, first by claiming they didn’t exist, then by simply refusing to hand them over. Then he redacted all the emails between himself and his family members and cited ‘attorney-client’ privilege, even though none of his family are attorneys.

When he eventually complied with the court order and released the emails, they revealed that at the time he was constructing his lawsuit and abuse memoir, he was researching and emailing himself links to old tabloid newspaper stories about abuse allegations against Michael Jackson.

The emails showed Robson found one particular story from the early 1990s which specifically named he and his mother. He emailed it to his mother and asked whether it was true. She replied, ‘Wow, none of that is true’. He then included it in his story anyway.

Emails also revealed that throughout 2011/12, Robson was lobbying Jackson’s estate for a job directing and choreographing an official Michael Jackson tribute show in Las Vegas. His campaign to secure this role had included sending emails explaining that his amazing friendship with Jackson meant nobody was better qualified for the role than he was, and he was devoted to doing the best job he possibly could ‘for Michael’. After being told someone else had got the job, he suddenly claimed he’d been abused and filed a creditor’s claim against the estate for millions of dollars.

Continued

Months later, according to Jimmy Safechuck, he flipped on the TV and saw Wade Robson being interviewed about his lawsuit. In that moment, Safechuck suddenly remembered that he had been abused by Jackson as well, so decided to join the lawsuit. He didn’t mention that this epiphany coincided exactly with his inheritance circling the drain after a relative died and the surviving siblings started suing each other – including him – for control of the family business.

Robson was also ordered to produce his diaries as evidence. In them, he’d written about how these allegations might rescue his failing career by making him ‘relatable and relevant’. He also wrote, ‘It’s time for me to get mine.’ When questioned under oath about what he’d meant when he wrote that, he refused to answer.

Both men tell stories in the TV show which directly contradict stories told under oath in their lawsuit. In fact, they have continued to change their stories as recently as within the last week.

For example, Jimmy Safechuck claims under oath in the lawsuit that he only remembered Jackson had abused him in 2013 when he turned on the TV and saw Robson. Yet in tonight’s TV show and interviews promoting it, he claims he knew he’d been abused in 2005 and thus, when asked to testify for Jackson’s defence ‘towards the end of the trial’, he refused to do so.

But that’s a provable lie. Safechuck was never asked to testify for Jackson’s defence. The judge ruled long before the trial began that testimony could only be heard about certain children, and Safechuck was not one of them. All testimony about Safechuck was literally banned from the courtroom. So Jackson’s defence cannot have asked him to testify – and certainly not after the trial was already underway.

Robson claimed in a BBC interview last week that Jackson had abused him ‘hundreds of times’. Yet his mother’s sworn testimony is that they went to Neverland roughly 14 times but Jackson was almost never there. She estimates the number of times they visited the ranch and he was actually there was four.

Questioned about their financial motive, the men now say they don’t care about money and are only suing to embolden other abuse victims by holding the Jackson estate accountable. This is a provable lie. The lawsuit was originally filed under seal and Robson tried to extract a settlement from the estate with zero publicity. Only when the estate refused to pay a bean did he go public.

I could continue, but if you’re still on board with the TV show and its accusers at this point, you are irrational to the point of mania.

1991 when Mac is being swapped in for Wade.

A bunch of other special friends are in this one too.

Look how TINY and YOUNG Mac is. Imagine sexually assaulting a little kid. A new one every year, or more.

The parents are despicable and totally failed their kids, but no, R300, the biggest monster is Jackson himself. Used them as human sex toys, fucked with their heads and even got the Safechucks to pull James out of advanced classes, trying to fuck with his future.

Is someone getting so desperate as to copy and paste the whole Reddit rubbish here?

Meant R298.

R298, you have to be fucking joking. I'm not fan of the parents, but to say they are worse than Michael is ludicrous and downright bizarre.

How wonderful it would be if wade and James got huge amounts of money, the estate deserves to lose every penny.

R306 Keep dreaming, their lawsuits failed and the estate will never have to pay a penny.

SONY just spent a fortune on music rights and there is the Bway show pending. The fortunes of the estate have brightened considerably since his death, even more so in the past year or so. That is why SONY has such a big social media crisis team presence all over the internet and the family is freaking out.

This timeline is useful.

R301 TONS of bullshit here.

"For example, Jimmy Safechuck claims under oath in the lawsuit that he only remembered Jackson had abused him in 2013 when he turned on the TV and saw Robson. Yet in tonight’s TV show and interviews promoting it, he claims he knew he’d been abused in 2005 and thus, when asked to testify for Jackson’s defence ‘towards the end of the trial’, he refused to do so."

Just not true. Whoever wrote this is completely twisting and bending the story in order to make it looks like James lied.

James never said he only remembered being molested in 2013. This did not happen. Show me the transcript. You can't. No one can, because it isn't true. When James saw Wade on the Today Show in 2013, it inspired him to tell his family what was done to him at long last. He remembered it all along.

The Cirque de Soile story is bullshit too. Not enough time to detail all the lies and twisted "facts" in that nonsense.

That whole thing is filled with lies, obviously written so MJ's delusional fans can still claim plausible deniability.

R300 & R301 you are truly a garbage person. You are just awful. I know James, and what he's been though. For you to contribute to this sick effort to undermine the truth of what Michael Jackson did to him is unconscionable. He's been though enough. Stop it.

If you're religious at all, (I'm not) you should really rethink doing this. This'll get you a one way ticket to hell.

Excerpt from Safechuck's civil complaint:

[quote] 80. Shortly after May 1, 2013, Plaintiff saw on the news that Wade Robson (“Wade”), who he had met in 1993, had filed a lawsuit against DECEDENT for claims of childhood sexual abuse. After learning that Wade had made public the sexual abuse that he had suffered at the hands of DECEDENT, Plaintiffs feelings of panic and anxiety heightened, and he thought that he might need help. By this time, Plaintiff now also had a newborn baby daughter, and his fears increased about his own children and what could happen to them. 81. Plaintiff never thought the feelings of panic and anxiety he had been suffering were the result of the sexual abuse by DECEDENT. Rather, he thought they were just a part of who he was. He had spent his entire life holding on to DECEDENT’s words that talking about what happened between them “would wreck [their] lives.”

Nowhere does it say that James remembered or realised he'd been abused when he saw Wade on TV, you freaks keep repeating that lie and many others.

Uh, some of the photos are quite disturbing. Not as much overlap in the boys timeline as I would have thought. Some of the photos you just have to know sh*t was going on... why haven't these other boys/men come forward?

James claims that MJ threatened him via phone call, why didn't he tape the call?

Uh, because they have been through enough and do not wish to get death threats from crazy people?

Sex abuse survivors feel shame, self loathing, both James and Wade reported nervous breakdowns, which was a PTSD response. What part of coming forward to make their pain some kind of infotainment for strangers would be helpful to them?

Watch the doc and watch the Bashir interview, Michael himself says it pretty clearly.

Michael was likely speaking to James on a landline given the timeline. How likely is it that they had the capacity to record it on their home phone? Way before Iphones.

Stop trying to put the victims on trial. It is Michael who raped God only knows how many little children.

Observe the subtle smile of a manipulative boy. He waits in line to buy an album from his icon, holding up a message of love and support.

He testifies in his Icon's successful defense, when proven liars come after him.

Then the Jackson family doesn't give him a role after he begs. Now 20 years later, the middle-aged man child remembers he was the star's lover!

Now laughed out of the courtroom, publishing house, and estate payroll he doesn't get a dime. His only supporters are fans of an unpaid documentary,

R313 because it never happened.

R314, James had the tape records that he interviewed MJ on MJ's private plane and there are also several tape records when MJ called James' family when James was close to MJ. That was way back to 80s and 90s. I don't understand why all of a sudden there has been no tape records any more when these victims interacted with MJ in the 00s

R315 You are an evil piece of trash.

R317 Huh? In 2004 it wasn't as easy to record cell phone conversations as it is now. James likely didn't realize he'd be threatened by MJ during that conversation. He just wanted to tell him he wasn't going to testify for him. What are you on about?

Block the trolls. SONY and the family have a lot of financial exposure and have SM teams out in force. Just F&F and block.

(312) It is very obvious there was something going on between Michael and those boys. If someone can’t tell they need to have their eyes checked.

I can't 100% believe James and Wade unless they provide substantial evidences such as phone call records

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R322 It doesn't exist. They can't pull it out of their ass like they can tears and conflicting manuscripts.

Reading some of these replies would make me think the documentary showed DNA evidence and video of the two men being molested. It's possible (and reasonable) to support Wade and James without treating Dan Reed's circumstantial claims as a conclusion of fact.

R323 She's had mental issues for a long time

R322, what more are phone call records going to tell you that the faxes and video and audio recordings of Michael's messages to the boys and families don't? You don't believe Michael actually talked to these boys on the phone even though he admitted to sharing a bed with them? Even though even Macauley Culkin reported talking on the phone with him for hours at a time?

James Safechuck still has the wedding band Michael gave him for their mock wedding ceremony, but you've randomly decided phone records are the thing that will convince you? Really?

Or are you just grasping at nonsense like the rest of the trollbots?

The facts about Dennis Robson are so incredibly tragic. Just gutting to read about.

So many times, CSA is like a generational family curse. Jackson was rich and famous, but there are so many of him - the swim coach, the popular teacher, the dad next door, the older teen girl (R. Kelly and Chris Brown were both molested by older teen girls as second graders, same age as Wade when he was raped by Michael). Wade and James seem to be breaking that cycle, wish them and their families all the best.

Re: Wade and his mom - I wonder how much his father having killed himself pushes Wade toward a rx with his mother? His wife barred her from their home and son for a time.

[quote]The fortunes of the estate have brightened considerably since his death, even more so in the past year or so.

Dead pedo can't molest anymore, therefore estate saves tens of millions of dollars in payoffs to molested kids.

Michael also used to call one young son of Barry Gibb for the hours long chats. Gibb spoke about it in an interview.

It is incredible that Ono left her kid there for years, I do not think any of the special friends were likely to have gone untouched. What was she so busy doing that she pulled her son from school and handed him off?

R329, I was referring to the hundreds of millions SONY just paid for rights and the upcoming Bway show, but your point is valid as well. Michael also spent a huge amount on crap, a la Tori Spelling, and on drugs, in addition to paying off the families of special friends.

R317, that was Michael putting himself on tape. The boys and their families weren't secretly taping him, because why would they?

Some of you should be contortionists with the stretching you're doing here.

Thank you to the poster who linked the VF articles, I am reading the 'Nightmare in Neverland' article and it's juicy. Jamie = Jordy in the article.

R325 This is not a court of law. We are able to consider 25 years worth of stories and claims. We can listen to two men tell exactly what happened to them, and put it into context.

An intelligent, reasonable adult with no agenda can really only come to come conclusion. Michael Jackson was a serial abuser of children. There is no more arguing the point.

Now, you can argue the degree of the parent's complicity. You can argue Michael himself was abused. Can can argue about separating the artist from the art. But there is no more arguing that Michael Jackson was innocent of molesting children. Unless you have a financial stake in making people think he didn't. Or you have some weird emotional stake in it because you like his music. In which case you're willing to add to the suffering of the victims for either your own financial gain or for the sake of your nostalgia. In either case you're a garbage human being.

He was a child molester. And after the great documentary Leaving Neverland, history will remember him as a child molester before they remember him as a great musician. As it should be.

Do the Jackaloons not realize that in harping on Wade's lying on the stand, that they're in turn saying that Jackson was a pedo?

Vanity Fair from 2007 #LeavingNeverland

Reynoza doesn't believe Jackson is innocent. "He's had little boys around for nine years straight, 24 hours around the clock. People in show business couldn't understand how long it took to get the talk going. The public is 100 years behind on this." Reynoza acknowledges, however, that people close to the star "looked the other way. They were afraid of being fired." As for the children's parents, Reynoza claims that some of them, like Jackson employees, were showered with gifts. "He would buy five Cadillacs at one time. He gives homes, Jaguars, Cadillacs, trips for their birthdays—like a fairy tale out of the movies."

Also from Vanity Fair

the money that changed hands around Michael Jackson and his accusers tells a much bigger and broader story than the on-the-record testimony alone. As I mentioned above, the Jackson family, and the singer’s fans, have attacked the accusers for seeking fortune in their public disclosure of abuse. And yet it’s the Jackson estate that rapidly decided to sue HBO for $100 million, claiming defamation of a dead man. Presumably that’s not merely a showy effort to defend the singer, but also a desperate effort to maintain his still-lucrative marketability. In 2016, Billboard reported that in the years after Jackson’s death, the estate flipped a reported $400–500 million debt into a $500 million profit. A stage musical based on his catalogue is still planning to come to Broadway in 2020. The dream of Michael Jackson lives on—and its measure can be counted in dollars and cents.

Jackson employed high powered lawyers and PIs like Pelicano (sp?) who had worked for the Scienos.

There was more, as described in VF:

And, as Orth later wrote in her 2004 feature “Neverland’s Lost Boys,” Jackson used other intimidation tactics as well: “In 1993 armed members of tough South-Central L.A. gangs, including the notorious Bloods, were transported to Neverland. The employment of these toughs was said to have sent a strong message to Neverland employees who might have considered cooperating in the Jordie Chandler investigation, not to mention the subliminal message it gave out to other boys and their families who might have been thinking of coming forward.”

Michael Jackson hired noted scumbag Anthony Pellicano to cover up the fact that he's molested children. Innocent people don't hire Pellicano. He gets out of prison next year. If he wants to redeem himself, maybe he'll release the direct physical evidence he has that Michael Jackson molested children. You know he must have it.

Michael Jackson albums climb the charts following Leaving Neverland broadcast #puke

Michael Jackson's streams drop after 'Finding Neverland.

Exclusive Interview: Michael Jackson’s Niece, Who Dated Leaving Neverland Star Wade Robson, Explains Why She’s Sure He’s Lying

What if I told you that there was person named Brandi Jackson, directly related to Michael, who fully admits to having a long-term relationship with Wade Robson, one of the two accusers in HBO’s Leaving Neverland who now claims to have been horrifically sexually abused by the pop icon for seven years? And what if I told you that a key part of this woman’s story was that Robson cheated on her with, among others, Britney Spears, in a way which broke up that pop star’s epic romance with Justin Timberlake?

Now, you would think, given only those pieces of information (which are really just the tip of the iceberg) that such a story would be in extremely high demand by all the major television networks. Due to a series of bizarre circumstances, however, including network television’s apparent aversion to allowing even a highly credible person to question the veracity of a sex abuse claim (especially one sanctified by Oprah Winfrey), that has somehow not yet happened.

Instead, the first extensive interview which Michael Jackson’s now 37-year-old niece Brandi Jackson has done since the airing of the extremely controversial “documentary,” was with me for my modest podcast. I had seen her do a very compelling interview before the film aired, and I was astonished that HBO didn’t have at least the basic fairness to put her perspective in the movie, and, inexplicably, didn’t even at least mention her obviously pivotal role in Robson’s story (I suspect that Robson hid Brandi’s existence from the film’s director Dan Reed, and that Reed, apparently invested in a preferred narrative, didn’t do enough investigation to find out about her on his own).

Since she happens to live not far from where I do in Southern California, I asked her if we could meet and possibly do an in-depth interview. The reason for my interest was that, separate from whether or not Michael Jackson was a sexual-abuser of children, I had found Leaving Neverland to be extremely deficient when it came to basic documentarian ethics, and that there appeared to be several gaping holes in Robson’s narrative.

After viewing the film, I was very open to the idea that Michael Jackson was indeed a pedophile, but that Leaving Neverland may have also gotten at least half of their story very wrong. It was very clear that Brandi, who dated Robson throughout their entire teenage years, had a truly unique experience with him which could obviously shed light on what was really going on here, and I was gratified when she agreed to tell me her captivating story when we met Friday afternoon at Michael Jackson’s family estate in Calabasas.

The interview, which was about an hour long, was extraordinary on multiple levels and has far too many highlights to list. Here it is, unedited, as hour one of my most recent World According to Zig podcast:

In my opinion, if you simply listen to the interview with an open mind, Brandi’s credibility speaks for itself. There will still be people who will understandably still believe Robson’s version, but there is no doubting that Brandi’s narrative makes a whole lot more sense. But again, the primary question here is, why was her existence censured from Leaving Neverland and why hasn’t she been interviewed on network television about all of this?!

[quote] Michael Jackson's streams drop after 'Finding Neverland.

R342 Great!

[quote]As dysfunctional families go, it's hard to top the Jacksons. Katherine Jackson, the matriarch, once filed a petition for divorce and withdrew it, but papers found a few years ago in a warehouse where Jackson-family memorabilia had been stored revealed that she and three of her children had had a six-figure settlement against them for beating up one of the girlfriends of her husband, Joseph Jackson. In addition to his children by Katherine, Joseph has an illegitimate daughter. Rebbie, the eldest of the nine children, reportedly once pressed charges against her father for sexually molesting her when she was 12. Jackie, the eldest son, once suffered a broken leg when his first wife ran over him with a car after having caught him in bed with the singer Paula Abdul. Jermaine, a convert to Islam, has a girlfriend and two wives, one of whom, Alejandra, is in the process of divorcing him. She has one child, Jermajesty, with Jermaine and two with Jermaine's brother Randy, to whom she was engaged before Jermaine stole her away. In 1994 brother Tito's ex-wife drowned in a swimming pool, and her older lover was convicted of murdering her. At the 2004 Super Bowl, Janet caused a nationwide scandal with her "wardrobe malfunction." In 1989, La Toya left home, married her manager, wrote a tell-all book about the family, then returned to the fold, recanted, and accused her husband of beating her. Police recently questioned at least one of Michael Jackson's nephews about his relationship with his uncle.

Are James Safechuck, Jordan Chandler, Gavin Arvizo, Jason Francia, and Michael Jacobs-hagen all liars too then?

And is a grown man sleeping in the same bed with little boys normal? Is having an alarm that goes off when someone gets close to your room normal? Is having NAMBLA books that feature naked young boys normal? Is replacing a young boy with a younger one every 12 months and losing interest in the other boys as they grow older normal?

Why would Leaving Neverland need to talk to one of Wade Robson’s ex-girlfriends? How on earth does screwing Britney Spears relate to anything on the documentary? What a bizarre attempt, R341. “Yeah, maybe Michael Jackson faxed him love notes, slept in bed with him for weeks at a time when he was seven, bought his parents ridiculously expensive gifts, but didja know that Wade Robeson DID IT with some girls when he was a teenager??!!??!!”

Stupid.

[Quote]But in detailing why "they" aren't credible, he only talks about Wade. He literally says NOTHING about James.

Of course he isn't, because everyone can see James is telling the truth.

Wade not being likable or rootable doesn’t make him a liar.

I’ve had it drilled in my head my entire career that people are more likely to sue a doctor they don’t like; one with a poor bedside manner.

We put assumptions on people who don’t act the way we think they should. The abrasive doctor was negligent, the nice one certainly did everything possible. The female manager who issues the directive is a vindictive bitch, the male manager issuing the same mandate is just doing what’s best for business.

Wade doesn’t come off the way we’ve been conditioned to expect a victim to behave. He doesn’t have the faltered tears. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t abused. It just means he is a different personality type. Maybe part of his motivation to lie when he testified was a desire to have his own fame and career. He might not even have the most noble of intentions now. That still doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

interest in his music is dropping fast. when we hear his tunes, we see him rimming little boys, and giving them jewelry for more sex, we see a monster who takes the innocence from kids.

his music can go to hell and the jacksons can shop at goodwill from here on.

I’ve known people who felt they grew up too fast, missed out or were robbed of a childhood for a variety of reasons, abuse, shitty parents, raising younger siblings.

In my experience, as adults they fall into two categories. One, the type A overachiever, perfectionist OR the messed up drug addict, no direction type who says “fuck it, I spent my childhood being an adult, I don’t want to be responsible anymore.”

I’ve never once known a one to go try to recreate that childhood with amusement parks and other people’s children. I’ve for sure known some to value their own children’s childhood greatly, put extra effort into making sure their kid gets a childhood and enjoying things through their kid but no way try to be a kid again.

It just doesn’t happen that way. Any logical person would be able to spend five minutes thinking about their life and come up with “well so and so had a shitty childhood but they don’t have sleepovers with little kids.” MJ’s icon status made people lose the ability to think rationally. I remember the entire time I grew up, hearing about poor MJ who never had a childhood. Everyone ate it up when they would have banned their kids from crossing the street if the neighbor tried pulling that shit.

r348 I believe all these victims and agree Wade comes off a little different and appears less "damaged" than especially Safechuck, on the surface anyway. We really don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Wade also may still be coming to terms with what happened to him because he admitted he still loves Michael Jackson. Wade has done well financially and career-wise and feels he owes Michael Jackson for it. It's very complicated for all victims of pedophiles but for Wade maybe more so. And, yes, just because he's less likable doesn't mean he's a liar by any stretch of the imagination.

D.L. Hughley Says Society Gave Michael Jackson a Pass Because of His Talent

The public conversation about this is so important. Imagine all the kids out there who have been abused, kept this secret and suffer in silence. So sad.

'The Simpsons' is pulling its Michael Jackson episode

The weird thing (to me at least) is that they loved Michael, but the boys weren't gay.

[Quote]Wade doesn’t come off the way we’ve been conditioned to expect a victim to behave. He doesn’t have the faltered tears. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t abused. It just means he is a different personality type. Maybe part of his motivation to lie when he testified was a desire to have his own fame and career. He might not even have the most noble of intentions now. That still doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Well said. This is what so many of the Jackson stans are missing. Lets say Robson is doing this because he wants fame, ok, so what? That doesn't necessarily mean he's lying. Could both not be true? Like, he wants fame AND also do the right thing by speaking up about what happened to him? Also, why would he risk perjuring himself by lying about lying that time on the stand? Come on stans, be smart about this!

[Quote]The weird thing (to me at least) is that they loved Michael, but the boys weren't gay.

Like I said, I think Jimmy is gay. Wade is probably not. This is just based on my gaydar. There's a certain sensitivity to James which he also has as a kid. Wade didn't have that same sensitivity.

I think Wade is gay but I don't know about James.

R358 Interesting that I think the opposite. Despite the dancing I get no gay vibe from Wade. Jimmy on the other hand pings really loud.

Was Lisa Marie Presley trying to tell us all along that Michael Jackson sexually abused children? Here is a song, Disciple, that she confirmed she wrote about Jackson - as per her 2003 Rolling Stone interview.

TimberFake is gay here's his beard Biel with her partner.

Michael Jackson stayed out of court & jail in at least 2 cases

Only because MJ was rich enough to pay Jordan Chandler $23 million & the maid’s son $2 million

Huge payoffs to avoid court & jail = MJ was guilty AF & molested those kids

wouldn't surprise me if he diddled with lisa marie's kids. he had no morals or boundrys….is that why he picked her? shame on her

NEW FBI documents reveal a witness called LAPD & alleged Michael Jackson molested two Mexican boys in 1985 or 1986

The investigation was "covered up", because MJ was scheduled to receive an award at the White House

[bold]The FBI also examined an alleged "child sex" video tape labelled "Michael Jackson's Neverland Favorites", according to documents unearthed by Sun Online.[/bold]

its the king of pop, lets cut him some slack and get free tickets for his show.....LA cops. ugh

fuk look how young wade was.. horrible.

I think the cops that raided his home of vids, pix, made out well and sold em bak to him

someday they will come out

la toya get to work on it! ur our only Jackson hope gurl

did he have grown peddy friends with whom he shared stuff?

or jus surround himself with ten yr olds

his star defaced yet?

At what age do you think his sons will come forward with lurid tales? tho it would affect their monthly stipend.

Good thread on evidence which was excluded from the Michael Jackson criminal trial 👇

The word 'underwear' & 'cocaine' was excluded from a child sexual abuse trial.

Cocaine wasn't found in #MichaelJackson's blood, however it doesn't rule out that he gave it to the children.

The arrogance and ignorance of morons supporting their idealised image of Michael Jackson as opposed to the complex and convoluted reality of abuse survivors. If you support Jackson you are supporting child abuse.

jacko's wax figure removed from some wax museums...just read it

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Gavin's story also matches up with the other two. He started masturbating them outside their clothes.

I’s love to see one melted down, R373.

omg that pic of pedo jaccko says it all: freak from hell !!!! his mask became a face of deception to hide his god dam sins.

I think Jackson thought sex like he did was ok as he was molested as a child... a huge black cloud of crap lies over the heads of them parents..

R378 - I would agree with you and I think that most of us would (MJ grew up in a Hellish environment with an evil, abuse, likely rapist father and a mother who turned a blind eye and ignored). There in lies the nasty cycle of it all. Were it not for his money, power and fame - this would likely have been nipped in the bud before it led to full-on sexual pedophilia (well at least the more graphic acts). Because of who he was, he was given the green light to fuck up countless young boys for life. They really were "in love" with MJ and judging from the documentary - they still are to a large degree. It is a horrible mind-fuck for these (now) men.

LaToya:

IMO, James Safechuck so FUCKED UP that he doesn’t know what he is. I think he’s basically a drugged-up zombie barely making it.

R128 CODE of WAKANDA!? I can’t…. Man, you ‘ve LITERALLY described most of the Black folks that I know or listen to on the radio. I would love to go into detail about that, but I’m afraid that SOME posters will use it as an opportunity, and think we all know the posters that I’m referring to.

[quote]MJ has explained his behavior. Whether you believe him is up to you, but don't pretend that you're on the side of facts. Most viewers are emotionally manipulated to believe one side or another.

First of all, I don’t believe ANYTHING anyone with THAT last name says. NOTHING.

See...this is where you lose it, IMO. You accuse people of not knowing facts--which is a valid point--but our eyes still work. If you replace Jackson with a random white man, you’d be screaming “PEDO” from the rooftops.

Look, Jackson had ALL of the CLASSIC characteristics of a pedophile. Grown-ass man sleeping with non-related, underage kids (check)--what else needs to be said? Infantilized view of the world (check). Video games and a whole fucking ranch dedicated to the enjoyment of children (check) Constant communications with those victims and their families--a 40-year-old man routinely calling a non-related child that he’s slept--ALONE--in the bed with you. Locked doors, taking longer than normal to answer doors in the process (check) Inappropriate public displays of affection with those victims (check) Access to a rotating door of children with similar characteristics (blonde, blue-eyed, males) (check).

Admittingly, I’m not a psychologist, but I have at least two functioning brain cells, so I have some sense of awareness. That shit is just glaringly obvious, textbook pedophilic behavior, and if you remove the self-titled "King of Pop" from the equation, I think it would be easier to....accept. I would've said 'easier to see' but I think people do see the weirdness. They just refuse to make the leap from weird to kiddie grabber.

james seems like an awesome well adjusted guy considering what happened. lets wish him the best with his cute family!

[Quote]IMO, James Safechuck so FUCKED UP that he doesn’t know what he is. I think he’s basically a drugged-up zombie barely making it

I agree with this. If I'm right and he's gay, then that is probably buried deep down and he's a long way from admitting those feelings anyway. First he has to deal with the abuse, then his sexuality. It will take years and a ton of therapy.

I hated MJ from the first. And I was a kid when he was in prime mode. Knew something was off. Child molesters are the only things I won't forgive. And rapists. But they're one and the same. And murderers.

Shit. Just don't hurt others. It's so simple. All the talent in the world doesn't mean anything.

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I’m shocked by those who still won’t accept Michael Jackson as abuser

Let's talk about Michael Jackson

Michael Jackson's Close Friend Mark Who Reveals 'Leaving Neverland' Made Him Feel Sick | Lorraine

When he died ten years ago, I was amazed and disturbed that everyone just "forgot" how often he'd been accused. It's bothered me that the victims were forgotten as he became a saint in death, like too many celebrities do. I'm glad we've finally remembered.

jermaine - come on -

Rosie is right on there.

Some of y'all just need to say you love Micheal Jackson so much that you don't care what he may have done to any of these children because they are white and you love how he elevated the Black community and fear this will make us "look" bad...

Just be honest. #LeavingNeverland

How did Michael help the black community. As a black female i have never been able to figure out how he helped African Americans.

Jane Doe was 12 in 1986 when she met & was raped by Michael Jackson.

a female victim?

When Jermaine says "let the man rest", it's like Jermaine is in so many words admitting that MJ molested kids, but he's dead now so let him rest.

R388 I'm not easily surprised by stupidity but Mark Lester's response leaves me amazed that someone could double down rather than admit that maybe he didn't know Michael as well as he thought he did. The Jacksons coming to his defence at least make sense since they have financial incentive to protect Michael's legacy but Lester has no reason other than ego and having fallen hook line and sinker for Michael's facade.

#leavingneverland #michaeljackson

[quote]If you replace Jackson with a random white man, you’d be screaming “PEDO” from the rooftops.

Well, he DID turn into a random white man after all the surgeries but still had the name.

Well actually he turned into Joan Crawford.

Joe Rogan is a skeptic of the documentary.

So what's with the molestation of spelling in half these posts?

Yeah, Joe Rogan didn’t watch the documentary and said he’s not going to. He also had to quit competitive martial arts in his early 20s because of the chronic headaches caused by repeated head injuries. So, no, R399.

So how can Joe Rogan (or anyone for that matter) be skeptical of something he hasn't seen?

I wonder if Paul McCartney ever let his son hang with Michael?

I'm not sure how it could be done, but if Wade and Jimmy can describe MJs erect penis it doesn't matter what was or wasn't done to them. There would be no reason for them ever to see that.

Cut or uncut, size, "taking a right", etc. I remember telling a friend of mine that I had been with her boyfriend. She didn't believe me until I went into detail.

R404 Apparently the director of Leaving Neverland filmed a much more comprehensive amount of material describing circumstance of the abuse. It was edited down heavily to get the point across graphically, but not to go to overboard with every minute detail and show some sensitivity to the subjects. I assume some version of the documentary will end up being shown officially to legal powers.

This from the VF article: "He reportedly recommended that an 11-year-old blond, blue-eyed white boy play him as a child on the recent mini-series The Jacksons: An American Dream and in Pepsi commercials. "

R403, MJ did go to the McCartneys’ farm in Sussex during the course of their collaboration. There are photographs of the kids riding horses with him. The photo below was taken on that occasion. I don’t think he would have met them otherwise, unless it was when the kids visited the studio or something.

I do wonder if James was eyed as a target by Jackson, and if out of rage or a will to dominate, he shifted to Sean Lennon when he lost access to the McCartneys.

Bad shit doesn’t only happen to virtuous people and having bad shit happen to you, doesn’t turn everyone into an inspirational guru.

We are conditioned otherwise though. Religious dogma (at least where I live) tells anyone who’s child is born disabled or gets cancer, etc. - that “God chose them for this because of their sweet spirit, etc. etc.”

Television, soaps in particular, have raped countless “bad girls” into rootable heroines. You’re mouthy, opinionated, party too much then boom, raped and now you’re moved to the “good girl” story arcs.

I think it’s a where people go after that instinctual reaction of “I’m glad that wasn’t my family” and feel guilty for it. They then put people up on these unrealistic pedestals with behavior expectations that don’t allow the full scale of humanity.

I’m young enough that Ray Charles was “the Diet Coke guy” for me. I was shocked when I watched RAY and saw the drugs, the women, etc. That was the moment I realized, and I’d done it in day to day life too, that my own guilt/discomfort with disability had me in this condescending mindset where “everyone disabled is a saint who we should praise for even getting up in the morning.”

People are more complex than that. There isn’t a right way to be someone who’s experiences have been shitty. Wade can be a douche and still be 100% a survivor of sexual assault.

Wade Robson: "Michael Jackson was my GOD!" And there you have it. Unfortunately, he hasn't the faintest idea as to why he should be ashamed for that, alone.

I wonder if Jimmy ever considered doing his own documentary to distance himself from Wade's issues with lack of credibility.

Or to put it another way: how much Wade would a Safechuck chuck if a Safechuck could chuck Wade?

R408, great post with strong insight. I’ve shared this on other threads, when I was a teacher, a co-worker was molesting my star student, none of us knew at the time. The kid he was molesting was GORGEOUS, he seemed to have it all, wealthy parents, looks of a CK model, girls surrounded him, highly intelligent, gifted in the arts.....none of us had *any* idea he was being molested. He ended up sexually assaulting another boy, but it wasn’t until two years later that the molestation was discovered.

My friend was put on leave as the police investigated. I knew that if ANYone had accused ME of something that horrendous, he would fight for me. So I supported him. After about six months, the police gave him all the evidence they had, which was overwhelming, and told him he would be arrested shortly. He hung himself in his garage.

This man was one of my closest friends. He had an incredible sense of humor, we would drink together regularly, he was intelligent, kind, a great teacher and coach, and an amazing friend. I was in shock over his death. It took me about two weeks after his suicide to accept that he DID molest my student, by then we heard all of the evidence which was indeed concrete proof.

I wrestled for a long time with understanding how someone I loved could also do that to a child (a 14 year old boy who ended up in and out of rehabs with a serious drug problem too). I also struggled to understand how none of us suspected anything — were we stupid? Were we in denial? A therapist helped me understand that we all have many, many facets to who we are, and we often don’t show all of our sides to everyone. The therapist also helped me understand how talented these predators are at manipulation. That is how I reconciled that my friend was BOTH — an incredible person and yet a monster. R408 explains this very well, glad you shared that. I am quite certain that Wade and Jimmy still wrestle with loving Michael while also accepting that he actually hurt them and violated their very childhoods too.

If MJ fucked Jimmy, he did Wade too. And all the rest. I don't think any of them were lying.

Michael got the death he deserved, the POS.

The documentary will be on Norwegian tv tonight. Will be interesting to see the reactions. So far I've read very mixed reactions from the people (reporters etc) who were able to see it earlier. This article is especially interesting. With the pic I was thinking it would be just another article defending him, but nope, I was wrong.

[Quote]The two guys are telling their story. They are very much credible. They can not have possibly made this up, unfortunately.

Michael Jackson is not here to defend himself. Wade is a proven liar and opportunist, as is his mother (waiting until MJ died to bring up these charges, after his book deal flopped, he was turned down for a job with MJ Cirq and his first lawsuit against the estate failed). There were several exhaustive FBI raids that turned up nothing. The documentary was one sided.

In other words, don’t be a bandwagonner.

All we need is a secret video of Wade and the other one in closed quarters giggling and saying “We got ‘em,” and it’s over.

The documentary will be on tonight at 10:50 pm on NRK2, not exactly primetime and on NRK's second channel. I have no idea why, but it seems like they want to "bury" it, probably because they have criticized the documentary when they said they would have done it differently because it was too one sided.

The documentary will be on tonight at 10:50 pm on NRK2, not exactly primetime and on NRK's second channel. I have no idea why, but it seems like they want to "bury" it, probably because they have criticized the documentary when they said they would have done it differently because it was too one sided.

Sorry for the double post, had no idea it went through the first time.

R414 lectures about bandwagons then repeats the Jackson stans lies. There were NOT “several exhaustive FBI raids.”

R414. You an idiot. If mj molested jimmy he probably molested wade. Most molesters are not that picky. Since he surrounded himself with boys like wade which were a little darker with black hair. Mj had a type even though sometimes he will occasionally have a blond pre adolescent boy with him. Case in point Macaulay.

The documentary was not one sided. Unless there were 3 people in the room while Michael rimmed a 7 year old. This thread is reeking of Sony or Jackson family peeps trying to salvage his reputation.

Didn’t Wade break up Britney and Justin when he slept with her?

It’s not being a bandwaggoner to believe this. Look at some of the photos up thread. Look at the way these boys are curled up into him like a lover would their partner. One of the boys looks around 12 in the photo where he’s posed like that. At 12, most children are “don’t kiss me” to their parents and starting to establish more boundaries. They aren’t curling up next to their dad or uncle or “wrongfully accused family friend” like that.

If the first accusation had been a witch hunt for money, even with his “ I just want the childhood I never had,” - an innocent person would have fought like hell and when/if they finally gave up and just wanted to go away, they wouldn’t have still had kids around, regardless.

They would have issued a statement that while they were innocent, they didn’t want the appearance of impropriety to taint their work and from now on they’d be focusing their charitable efforts at x foundation and keep their outreach away from their home/bedroom.

R422 just arrived with all the gossip from 2003.

Ola Ray talking about Michael’s health consciousness on the set of Thriller

I find MJ a disgusting human being. He admitted to sleeping with children in the Martin Brasheer interview. That was enough for me.

So Wade is not only a liar but he’s a home wrecker too?

R405 I read on some twitter account that the original docu is the 4 parts instead of 2 parts.

"We might have seen Jackson go to jail." - #LeavingNeverland director tells me if his documentary aired while Michael Jackson was alive.

R422 Why should we care about celebrities dating/bearding drama

If Jackson is innocent why did he so quickly pay off the child for $20 million. Why did he not bring it to the FBI and have them exposed for blackmailers and criminals?

The Jacksons know full well who he was and are motivated by their financial interest.

The fans though are mostly coming from that naive place we all like to live. That belief that we can spot a bad person. The “stranger danger,” cloaked figure who somehow gives off that creeper vibe. Feeling like you’d know and see it and that bad people are easily spotted makes you feel secure, protected, as if it can’t happen to you, cause you’re smarter than that.

Admitting that someone you like/admire can be a bad person rocks our ability to believe that we have some control in the situation, that we can prevent ourselves and those we care about from being victimized.

It’s a lot easier to believe all predators look like the Children Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. It’s much harder to reconcile them as your friend from college, favorite colleague, sibling, etc.

You post about Trump’s lying, his racism, his plutocracy, and his crazed cultists come out of the woodwork to deny everything you say.

You post about the dangers of America’s gun culture and gun nuts come out of the woodwork to deny everything you say.

You post condemning sleazy pedophile pervert Michael Jackson and his delusional stans come out of the woodwork to deny everything you say.

Lesson: there’re a lot of crazed cockroaches in the Internet woodwork.

Again no grown man asks to sleep with children and only little boys. Why was this simple question not answered and allowed to keep happening? There is absolutely no way to justify that this behavior is normal and all of Jackson's fans and family seem to think this fact is so easily dismissable.

I cannot listen to an MJ song after listening to what these poor children went thru

1993: US pop star Michael Jackson, with his face covered with a scarf and wearing sunglasses, holding an unidentified child and accompanied by another boy

New video shows Michael Jackson strangely testifying about Macaulay Culkin relationship

R435, MJ fans say Michael was a little boy himself who thought it was acceptable to have sleepovers with boys but not girls.

And bigger news out of Vegas. Reports are that Michael Jackson One will close very quietly after the hoopla from the documentary dies down a bit so the European Jacko freaks won't start boycotting Mandalay Bay.

R397 It's funny but also sad.

People suspicious of why no other victims have surfaced forget MJ was very fond of NDAs, I imagine many have stories they have been paid off to keep quiet about.

^ maybe they are afraid of abuse from Jacko's fantards

[quote] This is what so many of the Jackson stans are missing. Lets say Robson is doing this because he wants fame, ok, so what? That doesn't necessarily mean he's lying. Could both not be true? Like, he wants fame AND also do the right thing by speaking up about what happened to him? Also, why would he risk perjuring himself by lying about lying that time on the stand? Come on stans, be smart about this!

Possible but not likely. Him lying about his motivation throws his entire account into question. Wade's wife lying about being a victim also casts doubt on her version of events. So does their changing testimonies and Wade wanting to settle with the estate without it being public. You can still believe Wade and Amanda if you want, but that's not good enough for me.

[quote] If Jackson is innocent why did he so quickly pay off the child for $20 million. Why did he not bring it to the FBI and have them exposed for blackmailers and criminals?

Jackson was pressured to settle because he was in the midst of his tour and the feared a lengthy trial could cost them a ton of money. There should never have been a civil trial before a criminal trial. Michael later said that he regretted settling.

Statue of Limitations.....that's in New York, isn't it?

In Australia they have not wasted any time kicking Jacko off the airways, and also removing his statues and images from places. Most in the media are not mincing words or taking a kid gloves approach. I'm sure Wade will get some comfort from that.

The parents are complicit, whether knowingly vs unknowlingly is irrelevant at this point, although a case of knowlingly complicit takes the case in an entirely different direction. Jackson isn't the only player in this drama who always seemed to have a good excuse as to why outrageous factors were playing out consistently in everyone's view. At the very least, his insistence at behaving like a 10 years old child, himself, should have sounded the alarm in the parents consciousness for the significant truth that it was contrary to fact. I hold no illusions about humans. I know that humans have faults, and those faults are magnified exponentially when money is the object - it's all over the internet, your newspapers, as well as nightly news. I don't give the parents a pass, and I never did. So focused on the role that the parents played in this case, I have to admit that I would not be the least bit surprised to find that they actually knew the whole time. With regard to the way MJ acted in committing his crimes, it is entirely a propos to rule that he proceeded incrementally and progressively if not cautiously. Who knows? Perhaps it was the person who kept moving Safechuck's parent's room further and further away who also stared them directly in the eye one day while dropping a lewd double entendre effectively seeking permission for the intent. Each child was abused at length for YEARS, with the exception of young Chandler and Arvizo, OR as long as MJ desired them. The point is that he acted in an extraordinarily brazen fashion with it all. All the while, the parents were benefiting financially from him. The Safechucks got more than a house from him - the house was rewarded after the fact, and in conjunction with James' testimony during the 1995 case. So then, the parents ALWAYS had their very own alibi in place - absolutely safe and secure by the irrefutably sound implications of it. There is NO WAY that a parent(s) would EVER allow something so horribly sickening to go on with their full knowledge. Right? Right? No one else who might have known first hand of that being the actual case could EVER state the fact without implicating himself. Are there any of you reading this comment right now who can state unequivocally that YOUR mother and/or father would permit you to sleep in the same bed with Michael Jackson night after night after night? I'm confident that mine would not. I am. I'm just as confident that had such a proposal been made to my mother, then she'd have put the brakes on the whole thing without even thinking about it. She'd have REACTED in her appropriate maternal way. Yet, none of these parents did so, insisting after the fact that they too were victimized.

It's bullshit.

Jackson settled because Chandler accurately described his cock and balls.

LaToya stated in 1993 that Jackson was a pedophile and had paid off dozens of victims.

Culkins interview with Larry King is a textbook example of lying when questioned. The true tells of lying actually aren’t in the eyes. They’re in excessive hand movements. Culkin can’t keep his hands still for a moment.

I really wonder why some people are so invested in defending a pedophile? Seems odd. It’s also interesting that Brandi Jackson can’t produce one picture of her with Wade Robson? After all those years of “dating”. It makes no difference - even if Robson dated Katherine Jackson, he was molested by Michael. Used, abused and disposed of like trash.

I do wish MJ was alive just to see him die in prison. He was a filthy, disgusting predator and the only thing worse are his defenders.

Perez told the truth here but Piers Morgan cut him off to defend Michael. love his dig at the disgusting Jackson family there at the end.

Blanket Jackson supposedly hasn’t spoken for months. He was ten when Michael Jackson died and an absolutely gorgeous little boy. I’d bet money that that pervert victimized him.

I seriously hope all the Jackson’s including Janet go bankrupt. They all knew - all of them.

You can find copies of Jackson’s NDA’s online. They were tight. It should have been called the pedophile protector act.

I think if anyone looks at this situation in a clear, unbiased manner, and places a normal, regular human being in place of Michael Jackson, the "larger than life celebrity" and sees the situation for what it is.....how can you not see how disturbing it is for a full grown man to befriend and have sleepovers with young children of the ages of 7, 10, etc? That is just sick, and unnatural behavior, no matter how you twist it, but because some are so infatuated with and idolized Michael Jackson, they're trying to convince others that see it for the sick, twisted, and disturbed it is, that's it's perfectly "ok" and that there was absolutely nothing wrong (just perfectly normal) with what Michael did

Piers Morgan is such a puppet. What a dolt. I notice a lot of his most ardent defenders are overseas, particularly in Europe.

Like someone upthread said, Michael didn't do shit for the black community or any community. It was all a ruse to make him look saintly. What he did do is build a child friendly fortress, stack it with candy and a zoo for the sole purpose of seducing little boys and their parents.

One of my closest friends is a PhD specializing in child psychology and treats abuse victims as part of her practice and she concurs that these men have exhibited behavior that is i line with these kinds of victims.

R447 I do wish MJ was alive just to see him die in prison.

I would like to see him go to prison but how many more boys would he abused between 2009-2019 if he were alive? He was a child rapist and animal abuser I am glad he is dead.

Agree R454

Not everybody was buying into the Jacko spin.

LaToya was the only one that cared about these children.

LaToya "cared" until she ran out of money & had to go back to that family of freaks. I 100% believe that she was telling the truth though. She doesn't couldn't stand up to the Jackson machine.

No one will agree, but who cares. Other than Billie Jean? What was a great song of his? He got lucky. Thriller? As a five year old I knew it sucked. The video was amazing. But the song?

I'm Bad? Come on. Some high schooler can write a better song.

You Are Not Alone was okay.

How he sold so many records astounds me.

another video of the heroic incident

starts about 15 seconds in

The Jordan Chandler story. Another stunning young boy with model looks who Jackson had one of his intense 'special friendships' with, no plain or plump special friends for Michael, they were always Tiger Beat material His love of children had a narrow range that excluded females and focused on 'hot' boys of 7-11, not suspicious at all.

r459, Michael had countless brilliant songs:

Off The Wall Rock Wth You Dont Stop Tl You Get Enough Billie Jean Thriller Human Nature Dirty Diana Smooth Criminal Pretty Young Thing Black Or White Dangerous

and don't even get me started on the songs he recorded as the Jackson 5 and the Jacksons. 'It's just a shame he was such a terrible person who did bad things to little kids.

[quote]LaToya "cared" until she ran out of money & had to go back to that family of freaks. I 100% believe that she was telling the truth though. She doesn't couldn't stand up to the Jackson machine.

I also believe her too. It's too bad that money issues forced her back into protecting her sicko brother along with the rest of the family. I have to admit that if she decided to start talking about MJ's crimes again and wrote a book about it, I'd buy it right away.

One look what this guy did to his face should tell you have fucked in the head he was. He had whiter skin than Nicole Kidman, European features, straightened hair. All man made. I don't believe the vitiligo story either; skin bleaching items were described by Jordan and this guy was so desperately trying disassociate himself from being black. Another thing I've noticed about his most special friends is a preference pattern. In the 80s he was with blonde boys like Spence, Safechuck and Culkin (very early 90s). Then from the early 90s-into 2000s he was with brunette boys like Robson which segued into darker skinned boys like Chandler, Brett Barnes, Omer Bhatti and Gavin. I've seen pictures of Jordan and Brett and they are indistinguishable from each other in many. Both were darker skinned, and had long hair (Omer had the long hair too). It was like Michael was trying to create mini versions of himself.

You are Not Alone was written by R. Kelly but I always thought it was weird that it had the same title as a controversial film about young boys struggling with their sexuality. I'm sure Michael at least saw the film and probably owned it.

Exactly R461 & that's why I do believe that he molested his youngest son. He's an absolute stunner. Paris is extremely lucky that she was born a girl.

Body Language Expert: Wade Robson is Telling the Truth

I remember hearing that MJ would cry or act hurt when his victims objected to the abuse. That’s all it took for me to believe he was a pedophile. It’s exactly what my abuser did to me. Jackson was a master manipulator. Fuck the Jacksons for caping for this freak show.

Omer Bhatti looks like he is wearing eyeliner like Michael. He also looks very similar to Blanket. Michael's kids he went from pale or tried to make them that way dying Prince's hair, to more exotic Blanket. Just like his taste for his 'special friends.' So many things are falling into place now.

He can bleach his skin until he looks like Casper, but he's a pedo nigger.

[quote] I don't believe the vitiligo story either

It was confirmed he had it during the autopsy.

The 'childlike' description of him is an excuse for the ped behavior. I feel gutted after watching the doc. The depravity is overwhelming. Can the man and his music be separated? He was my first crush in kindergarten!

Wade Robson had a successful career including two Emmy Awards for his choreography on So You Think You Can Dance....

The fact that he STILL wanted to work with MJ and the Jackson Family demonstrates how brainwashed he was by the pedo. He still wanted that recognition and validation that he was one of Michael's boys and wanted to be associated with him. It hurt his career and of course coming forth now with the truth isn't going to help him either - but hopefully he can now move on....

The BBC version of Leaving Neverland omits over 45 minutes of footage that aired on HBO. Highly suspect.

R278 you mean the Dunning–Kruger effect

An illustration for the Dunning-Kruger effect

There is no BBC version R474 and what is suspect is a middle aged man having serial, intense relationships with good looking boys of around 8 years old.

Culkin needs to tell the truth about both his heroin addiction & the abuse. There's a reason he's so fucked up and it's not just due to his dad. Also, abused kids are MUCH more susceptible to childhood sexual abuse than kids from stable families. Folks say Culkin wouldn't have been victimized due to his fame. He's actually the perfect victim.

Michael Jackson fits the criteria for the DSM-5 pedophilic profile. Many victims do not come forward until the perp is dead. Michael was an expert groomer & seducer.

Brandi Jackson’s interview. Wade is a cad.

Brandi Jackson seems suspect herself, R480. Does she have any proof that she and Robson were in a seven year relationship? Photographs, emails?

Exactly R479 - I came forward after my abuser died.

R443 "Jackson was pressured to settle because he was in the midst of his tour and the feared a lengthy trial could cost them a ton of money."

And the lies keep coming. The Dangerous Tour ended in November 1993. The settlement was in January 1994. Jackson was in the middle of, and was deposed for, a whole other lawsuit involving song copyrights during the tour.

Jackson settled just before he was scheduled to be deposed for the Chandler lawsuit--he settled because he didn't want to testify with possible criminal charges looming over him. He also settled shortly after he was strip searched in Dec. 1993--the strip search that confirmed Jordie Chandler's description of his penis was accurate.

That's why he settled. He couldn't explain how Jordie knew what he looked like naked.

Brandi doesn't have a photograph. Brandi will be working at Perkins if she doesn't have her cum soaked blood money from Jackson's estate. Sick bitch..

That's pretty damning, R361. TimberFake one of the worst entertainers ever.

James said Michael called him from NY after he performed at the Grammys in 1989. The Grammys were not in NY in 89 and Michael did not perform that year.

R483 Michael ackson was prepared to fight the allegations in court but he was not prepared to forfeit his right to a fair criminal trial by wasting his defense on a civil suit.The Chandlers’ decision not to testify in the criminal case was entirely their own and is perhaps the best indication of what they were really about.Had Michael wanted to hush the Chandlers with money he would have done it before the allegations went public, when Evan gave him a deal: In early August, Evan met Michael in the presence of Jordan and said that either Michael had to pay him or he'd publicly accuse him of molestation. Michael refused.

[quote] He also settled shortly after he was strip searched in Dec. 1993--the strip search that confirmed Jordie Chandler's description of his penis was accurate.

His description and drawings was never entered into evidence.

Father of the year!

Brandi is a liar which is why GMA canceled her appearance. Plus, not one photo in 7 years? Sure. Even if it was true, one has nothing to do with the other. A lot of the boys had girlfriends when this was happening. Plus, Michael himself got married to throw people off. The Jacksons are the scum of the earth.

R373 Time to remove him from the website as well

Is Bruce Willis next?

Brandi gives good dish in that interview. She says Michael was the catalyst for her friendship with Wade and that he always asked her if Wade was treating her right i.e. holding doors for her, etc. she says that’s exactly why they didn’t interview her for the documentary because her telling of various events would blow their story apart. She also said that there were parts in the docu where you could tell that he wanted to laugh.

LN IS very one sided, so giving it a side isn’t exactly illogical.

R487, probably because Michael settled before it could be.

R486, yes, confusing 1989 with 1988 makes you super-evil.

The 30th Annual Grammy Awards were held March 2, 1988, at Radio City Music Hall, New York City. Michael Jackson performed in that year's Grammy

R487, so you're changing your explanation now, since your lie about the lawsuit affecting the tour was exposed?

"In early August, Evan met Michael in the presence of Jordan and said that either Michael had to pay him or he'd publicly accuse him of molestation. Michael refused."

Nope, that's been debunked. And as part of the settlement, Michael had to publicly retract the claim that the Chandlers tried to extort him for money.

"His description and drawings was never entered into evidence."

Because it never went to trial, stupid. That's why Michael settled--he didn't want a trial with that kind of evidence against him.

Brandi knows all. I hope she gets to expose the lies going on here.

Wade was usually at Neverland with Brandi and Tito’s sons.

I'm still not hearing anything from Brandi that actually debunks the allegations.

Just another Jackson grifter angling for air time.

R496, what do you think of the maid saying that she saw Michael in the shower with boys and the cook who saw his hand down Macauley Culkin's pants? I'm genuinely curious to hear your answer.

R487 Would you have let MJ sleep with your 8 year old son?

R499 She sued Jackson for wrongful termination and lost. She also was coached by Victor Gutierez, the author of Michael Jackson Was My Lover, who was successfully sued by Michael Jackson.

You're a sick bastard R501. She was also the second person who saw Culkin being molested.

Could any of the Jackson defenders please explain why Chandler knew exactly what Jackson's penis looked like?

^ No one can, not even Michael could. That's why he settled.

R504 No it's because he didn't want to prejudice a jury in a criminal trial. Also 22 million was nothing to Jackson at that point.

Wherever Jordan Chandler is, I hope he takes comfort in knowing that the only folks that don't believe him are insane. I also hope he's found peace of mind.

The Chandlers could still have pursued a criminal trial but chose not to.

Forbes article that throws plausible skepticism at this one-side documentary.

Brandi Jackson is an idiot. How the hell would she know what happened to between her uncle and Wade when Wade was a small child? She wasn't there.

How are any of those things related to Chandler knowing exactly what Jackson's penis looked like?

R501, UNTRUE. Blanca Francia never sued for wrongful termination. In fact, Michael paid her 2 million in hush money because he fondled her son Jason 3 times. And the cook? There are a ton more claims that they saw inanpproariate behavior.

Inappropriate

R508 -

I stopped reading your link right at the beginning of the article when I read this nutty line:

"Disclaimer: this article is not intended as a review of Leaving Neverland, which [bold]I have not seen[/bold]"

FROM THE FORBES ARTICLE

When Michael Jackson died in 2009, Wade Robson—the former choreographer whose allegations of abuse are at the center of a controversial new documentary, Leaving Neverland—wrote in tribute to his friend:

[italic]Michael Jackson changed the world and, more personally, my life forever. He is the reason I dance, the reason I make music, and one of the main reasons I believe in the pure goodness of humankind. He has been a close friend of mine for 20 years. His music, his movement, his personal words of inspiration and encouragement and his unconditional love will live inside of me forever. I will miss him immeasurably, but I know that he is now at peace and enchanting the heavens with a melody and a moonwalk.[/italic]

Robson was twenty-seven years old at the time. Four years earlier, he testified at Jackson’s 2005 trial (as an adult) that nothing sexual ever happened between them. Prior to the trial Robson hadn’t seen Jackson for years and was under no obligation to be a witness for the defense. He faced a withering cross-examination, understanding the penalty of perjury for lying under oath. But Robson adamantly, confidently, and credibly asserted that nothing sexual ever happened.

What changed between then and now? A few things:

[italic]In 2011, Robson approached John Branca, co-executor of the Michael Jackson Estate, about directing the new Michael Jackson/Cirque du Soleil production, ONE. Robson admitted he wanted the job “badly,” but the Estate ultimately chose someone else for the position.

In 2012, Robson had a nervous breakdown, triggered, he said, by an obsessive quest for success. His career, in his own words, began to “crumble.” That same year, with Robson’s career, finances, and marriage in peril, he began shopping a book that claimed he was sexually abused by Michael Jackson. No publisher picked it up.

In 2013, Robson filed a $1.5 billion dollar civil lawsuit/creditor’s claim, along with James Safechuck, who also spent time with Jackson in the late ‘80s. Safechuck claimed he only realized he may have been abused when Robson filed his lawsuit. That lawsuit was dismissed by a probate court in 2017.

In 2019, the Sundance Film Festival premiered a documentary based entirely on Robson and Safechuck’s allegations. While the documentary is obviously emotionally disturbing given the content, it presents no new evidence or witnesses. The film’s director, Dan Reed, acknowledged not wanting to interview other key figures because it might complicate or compromise the story he wanted to tell.[/italic]

Does the Forbes article explain why Jordan Chandler knew what Michael Jackson's penis looked like?

FORBES con’t:

It is tempting for the media to tie Jackson into a larger cultural narrative about sexual misconduct. R. Kelly was rightfully taken down by a documentary, and many other high-profile figures have been exposed in recent years, so surely, the logic goes, Michael Jackson must be guilty as well. Yet that is a dangerous leap—particularly with America’s history of unjustly targeting and convicting black men—that fair-minded people would be wise to consider more carefully before condemning the artist. It is no accident that one of Jackson’s favorite books (and movies) was To Kill a Mockingbird, a story about a black man—Tom Robinson—destroyed by false allegations.

The media’s largely uncritical, de-contextualized takes out of Sundance seem to have forgotten: no allegations have been more publicly scrutinized than those against Michael Jackson. They elicited a two-year feeding frenzy in the mid-90s and then again in the mid-2000s, when Jackson faced an exhaustive criminal trial. His homes were ransacked in two unannounced raids by law enforcement. Nothing incriminating was found. Jackson was acquitted of all charges in 2005 by a conservative Santa Maria jury. The FBI, likewise, conducted a thorough investigation. Its 300-page file on the pop star, released under the Freedom of Information Act, found no evidence of wrongdoing.

Meanwhile, dozens of individuals who spent time with Jackson as kids continue to assert nothing sexual ever happened. This includes hundreds of sick and terminally ill children such as Bela Farkas (for whom Jackson paid for a life-saving liver transplant) and Ryan White (whom Jackson befriended and supported in his final years battling AIDS); it includes lesser-known figures like Brett Barnes and Frank Cascio; it includes celebrities like Macaulay Culkin, Sean Lennon, Emmanuel Lewis, Alfonso Ribeiro, and Corey Feldman; it includes Jackson’s nieces and nephews; and it includes his own three children.

In Robson’s case, decades after the alleged incidents took place, he was barbecuing with Michael Jackson and his children. He was asking for tickets to the artist’s memorial. He was participating in tributes. “I still have my mobile phone with his number in it,” Robson wrote in 2009, “I just can’t bear the thought of deleting his messages.”

Then, suddenly, after twenty years, his story changed and with his new claims came a $1.5 billion dollar lawsuit.

R507, no only the DA's office can make that decision. For 6 more months after settling the civil case, the Chandlers continued cooperating with the DA. But they got fed up when nothing happened, and basically bailed. Jordie Chandler and his family went into hiding, claiming death threats, and he's refused to surface since. He fled the country when subpoenaed in 2005 (by then an adult)--he would not testify for either side.

R508, the author admittedly hadn't seen the documentary when he wrote that article.

Seriously, the Jackson stans around here are pathetic.

The people here wanting to hang a dead man are pathetic, especially when he had been exonerated when he was alive.

^ But it's his defenders here who keep lying.

There's no need to lie if he was truly exonerated.

Culkin was definitely molested by Jackson. There must have been an enormous payoff to both him and his parents.

There were several employees who claimed that they caught Michael molesting Macaulay.

One of them was Phillipe LeMarque, here is what he said:

Another employee was Adrian McManus:

Adrian McManusBlanca Francia, another employee, had a similar impression of the friendship:

Blanca Francia

We can’t really say if those claims are true or false, but it makes one wonder why any adult would have such a sick fantasy.

So, what we can conclude is that Macaulay was just another young boy who was close friends with Michael when he was aged 10 to about 14. He enjoyed sleepovers at Jackson’s ranch and elsewhere & visited Neverland very often. He also slept in Jackson’s bed without his brothers:

A. How do you mean “spend the night”?

Q. Did you ever share a bed with Mr. Jackson

prior to going to Bermuda?

A. Yeah, I mean, I’d fallen asleep in the same

bed as him.

Q. Did you ever do that, fall asleep in the

same bed as Mr. Jackson prior to going to Bermuda

where none of your brothers or sisters were present?

A. It’s possible. But like I said, usually my

brother was tagging along with me. But I fell

asleep basically everywhere in that ranch, or

anywhere else when I was hanging out with him. I

You're right, R518! Why do people DWELL on atrocities? People should let the Holocaust go, too!

Jordan Chandler must've stood next to Michael at a urinal!

Like someone said, Wade can be opportunistic and have been abused. In fact, most of the families were opportunistic, and that's exactly what Michael preyed upon. It's always about Wade. What about Safechuck, Jordan, Gavin? The documentary did a phenomenal job of showing how Michael manipulated these boys that having sexual relations with them was a normal way to show love. He also demanded the utmost loyalty from them. Is it any wonder how confused they were and still are?

That Forbes article sounds like the stans (false) talking points. Michael was not thoroughly investigated by the FBI. They aided local law enforcement with technical assistance. In fact, there was a story that claims they investigated him for molesting 2 Mexican boys in 1985. It was dropped because he was meeting President Reagan.

How do you, R520, or any of you know that Wade and James aren’t lying? Most of you are probably equating lust for sympathy (I’ve literally seen comments here on DL of posters saying they were in love with James and would do him, etc.). You’re all full of shit.

Michael is not here to defend himself. He was acquitted and exonerated and all we have are the words of a guy who was desperate after a career decline and another guy that no one heard of until recently.

Check out the website MJandboys. All of this stuff was known for years and countless celebrities enabled Jackson. I don't care what sort of NDA, money was exchanged between Macualey, Brett and Omer and Jackson. They need to come the fuck forward.

Macaulay Culkin is a coward

Well, R523, we also have Jordan Chandler's drawing of Michael Jackson's penis.

Kieran won't speak about Michael at all. Not to accuse or defend him. This is the most he's ever said, BEFORE the 2005 case, and he never said another word during or after the 2005 case despite his name coming up repeatedly during Macauley and the employees' testimony:

Kieran has never talked about his relationship with Michael Jackson, or Martin Bashir's documentary, and he's not about to today. Through a series of cat'n'mouse questions, mostly unanswered, a nod here, a grimace there, this is what we glean: he's loyal, he'd like to defend his friend, but he can't because if he did, it would become a balloon-sized media event, flying around the world in a day.

"I'd like to talk about it," he says, pulling his hair so high it's now vertical, "but it's kinda weird as I haven't spoken with Michael for over two years."

Larry King: why do you think he likes young people? Macaulay Culkin: I don't care who he was

I’d be willing to wager a paycheck that the majority of the people on DL leading the Let’s Hang Michael brigade are of the caucazoid persuasion.

Culkin is a coward and a liar. There was also a Canadian social worker that was on a train ride with Jackson, Barnes and his entourage. She found Jackson's actions towards Barnes disturbing and later heard strange noises coming from the cabin Jackson shared with Barnes late at night. She reported it authorities. Guess what? Nothing was done. Michael Jackson is the OJ of pedophiles.

Yes, I’ve seen several posts of people here professing their “love” for James. Pathetic.

Celebrities supersede criminality

R529 and one of his biggest defenders is the lunatic JanBot.

The ghost of Johnnie Cochran has popped in to say hi at R529!

Culkin's dad was able to buy a home in Oregon & his mom bought a home inNYC. Interesting as they had basically depleted Culkin's earning by the time he was emancipated.

Whitey are a trip. Michael would have been better off if he’d stuck with Emmanuel Lewis and Alfonso Ribiero.

Because you imbecile at R523 there is actual corroboration by witnesses. This was before Wade came out with his accusations:

Blanca Francia, who worked as Jackson’s maid from 1986 to 1991: In a 1993 deposition, Francia told investigators that she had not seen Jackson touch any boys inappropriately. But in 2005, Francia’s story changed—she accused Jackson of showering naked with Wade Robson. According to a Los Angeles Times report of her 2005 testimony, “Once, when [Francia] was cleaning Jackson’s bedroom, she said, she saw Jackson and a child she believes was [Robson] in the shower. The boy’s neon-green Spider-Man underwear was on the floor near Jackson’s white briefs, she said. She said she was familiar with their undergarments from doing their laundry.”

During the 2005 trial, Philippe claimed that he witnessed one incident of inappropriate conduct upon delivering French fries to Jackson around 3 A.M. According to The Observer’s description of his testimony, “When he entered Jackson’s bedroom he saw [Jackson] and Culkin playing an arcade game with Jackson’s hand down the young boy’s underpants. ‘I was shocked. I almost dropped the French fries,’ Lemarque told the court.” (Culkin has repeatedly insisted that no abuse took place.)

Whoever got on here and professed their googly-eyed love for James ought to be ashamed.

Mac continues to defend Jackson and is even a godfather to Jackson's children. Brett Barnes continues to defend MJ in no uncertain terms to this day, even threatening a libel suit in the wake of the documentary.

I really hope James can get some money from the estate. He deserves it for the damage that the sexual abuse by Michael Jackson clearly still has on him. I’m praying for him.

MJ might not really abuse Macaulay Culkin because MC was already famous and rich at that time. He might treat MC differently from other boys who were much more vulnerable than MC.

R538 Perhaps the only reason people want to believe James is because he's so good looking.

R541 If you believe that, then you must believe that those who claim witnessing Mac being abused are lying.

Maybe Mac doesn’t want to spoil his relationship with Paris? She’s super rich.

Nope, I think Culkin was definitely molested. Culkin was really embarrassed by his dad & had stated he lost roles due to his fathers behaviour. He also stated in court that he "couldn't believe that they thought I would do that" when asked about being molested by Jackson. He viewed it as him doing something bad or shameful. No doubt he was paid-off by Jackson but he also still wrongly blames himself.

Blanket lives with TJ Jackson and I think he was also molested. Katherine probably gave TJ custody to ensure a complete brainwashing effort.

The dispositive evidence about Jackson is that Jordan Chandler knew exactly what Michael Jackson's penis looked like.

R544 So is he. He's been like a father figure to her and wouldn't lie to her about her dad.

Mac also turned down a lead role in the Big Bang Theory. He has enough money.

Corey Feldman Can "No Longer Defend" Michael Jackson

Most of MJ's defenders question "Didn't Micheal Jackson got checked so many times by the FBI and the FBI found 0 evidence of Micheal Jackson doing pedo crap?" I wonder whether there is any corruption in FBI investigation

Safechuck has just way too many details to his story that math up. How does he know where all of michaels bathrooms and secret rooms are? “Duck butter”, “bright lights,big city”, “selling me some”. He also has all the jewelry and the ring Michael jackson bought him. James father said in a 1994 deposition that MJ kissed his son on the lips and slept in his room wearing pajamas. How the hell can people say he’s not telling the truth. Jesus...

R541 What makes you think Macaulay Culkin wasn't vulnerable?

Edward Furlong, Brad Renfro weren't vulnerable? Fame makes you invincible? Christopher Pettiet wasn't vulnerable? Good looks and charisma mean you are free from harm?

I'll be kind and assume you're naive and not a useful idiot.

Notice how everyone is mum on how people here were basically proposing marriage to James in pervious threads. Lust masked as sympathy. Pitiful.

The FBI did not investigate MJ for ten full years. They stepped in a couple of times to assist local authorities with their investigation. Per the attached piece they covered for him. Celebrity and money can buy anything. Even sex with children.

You're right, R553; they should've done the normal thing and proposed marriage and exchanged vows when Safechuck was around 12, like Michael Jackson.

I honestly don't know how anyone can listen to Wade Robson and James Safechuck, hear how they describe their conflicted feelings and trauma, and dismiss them.

Macaulay Culkin is a sad, almost-penniless man. He needs to write his book now and admit what MJ did to him. If he waits much longer, the public won't buy his book because of compassion fatigue. There is only so much MJ putridness that people can tolerate. I'm saturated.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Michael was just an affectionate person. Here he is practicing dance moves with Emmanuel Lewis. At one point, he picks Emmanuel up and hugs him. Lewis was Michael’s constant public companion back then, and has grown up to be a normal, non-fucked up average citizen from all accounts.

People actually lusted over James when they supposedly were “appalled” and “saddened” by his story? LOL.

This doc spilled the tea on Jimmy and Michael Jackson . This was back when he was still in hiding and hadn’t even told his own family yet. The woman interviewed says she looked at the Safechucks credit score and was shocked at how they lived before and after James started spending time with Michael Jackson

R552 Yes and Culkin was very pretty boy I don't think pedo Jackson could have resisted him.

Maureen Oath, the author of the article at R292 revealed that the unnamed anguished father referenced in the article who called her frantic with worry about his son sleeping in the same bed as Michael but who called again a week later saying everything was fine was in fact Wade Robeson's father.

Here's the simple explanation as to why this case is still, to this day, such a fucking mess: It's because everyone involved and making the accusations first sought to profit from those accusations rather than go directly to law enforcement who then could have launched a successful investigation. Everyone from maids, cooks, security employees all tried to shop their stories of accusation to the tabloids without every going to the police. Evan Chandler, likewise, behaved in a completely mercenary driven way to demonstrate that his end game was money before justice. Those are the facts.

R545 I think Culkin was definitely molested

I'm sure about that too by Jackson or someone else there are many perverts in Hollywood.

R553, you're really reaching now. DL lusts after everyone and it wasn't even that many posts. He is a good looking guy, but It has nothing to do with anything. Gavin Arvizo isn't good looking, but I believe him 100%.

R564, I agree many people profited. However, Gavin did the right thing and where did it get him? I believe no jury would convict Michael during that time.

There's such a strong correlation between heroin addiction and sexual abuse too. Culkin was Jackson's preferred type for awhile - blonde, blue-eyed. It's so sick but what's sicker is knowing how Culkin could empower survivors of sexual abuse and choses not to.

On point R566. Jackson was above the law....or he could buy it.

R564, LA law enforcement has a documented history of brutality, incompetence and serious corruption.

One interesting point I heard was how Jackson managed to keep his drug abuse a secret until after he died, yet at the same time was so flagrant in his abuse of children, that he would do so in front of other people, including in front of other family members. Just doesn't add up.

Can we please put that troll on ignore and stop replying to it. Trolls feed off attention. The best thing to do is leave it alone, it will then probably lose interest and leave.

R523 Michael is not here to defend himself.

Here's why it doesn't matter that MJ is dead and can't defend himself: because what he did is indefensible.

I made a new thread to use when this is filled up.

Sorry if this has already been posted, I didn't read the whole 4 threads. This is an excellent interview. I hope James Safechuck has all the support he needs. Same for Wade Robson, no matter how "unlikeable" some here find him to be. These are two very brave men putting themselves out there and it can't be easy. It's very important that they mention there was no physical violence, ever. Rape isn't always assault and battery. In this case, it was seduction, manipulation, and financial coercion. It helps when you pick victims from economically fragile families.

R574 I posted that interview with Gayle in a previous thread. Anyways, what I found interesting was the way Jimmy explained the abuse. He didn't think of it as abuse, it was a way to express his love for Michael. They loved each other. Also, it's interesting that Jimmy did ask himself is loving Michael meant he was gay. I've posted about the fact that I think Jimmy is gay (or at the least bi). His sensitivity, gentleness, the way he speaks, his mannerisms, he just pings very loud. He was a sensitive kid too. I know he's married and has kids, but being abused as a kid tend to mess people up. If he is gay he has probably pushed it aside, not wanting to deal with his feelings, because it would take him right back to the abuse. Hopefully if he is gay he will be able to unpack that with the help of his therapist. He's nowhere near that yet though, first he has to deal with the abuse. It will probably take years.

The end of the Michael Jackson music legacy is surely close now. Indefensible behaviour from a very sick man.

R561, wow, all that was out there already. I'm curious what Diane Diamond has said now. I think the one thing that was missing, and needed in the documentary, is the employee witnesses. I think that would completely shut up the defenders. Well, I think maybe the only thing that can do that is a lobotomy, which many of his stans sorely need.

MC sounds like he's lying in that Larry King interview. Speaking fast, following up one thought with another quickly, and the high-pitched voice.

R578 He acts like that during the entire interview and in every recent interview I've seen of him.

Agreed 578, he's lying through his teeth. Diane Dimond favourited a bunch of recent tweets about the doc and tweets praising her early outing of Jackson. She more than anybody else was a target of the MJ loons. She received death threats and is harassed to this day. I admire her a lot - she's really brave.

R559 Hmm. Look at his skin color The children MJ molested weren't black. MJ was a racist molester.

Really love this tweet. So, so true

OJ Simpson was found NOT GUILTY Casey Anthony was found NOT GUILTY R. Kelly was found NOT GUILTY Michael Jackson was found NOT GUILTY

Don't be naive! A NOT GUILTY verdict IS NOT the same as innocence! The man sexually molested a child dying of cancer. WAKE UP!

#MichaelJackson

Dan Reed wrote a piece in regards to the audience reaction of Leaving Neverland. It's a must read.

Yeah, the only one I might not believe he molested was Emmanuel Lewis. Though, MJ's tastes did evolve over time. Maybe he started out abusing black boys like Emanuel, Alfonso Ribero and the nephews and when he mentally and physically started changing, switched to white and Hispanic boys. Though none of the black kids seemed to ever get that 'special friend' status. His two main types were represented in his two sons. One (bottled) blonde like Culkin, Spence etc.. Blanket like Barnes, Chandler, Bhatti. The man was twisted.

R574 No violence? MJ raped these children's psyches and even tried to penetrated them. His victims are fucked up forever. Fucking someone up forever is emotional violence. .

R350 Another reason he got away with it for so long is his persona of sad vulnerability. Before he disfigured himself, that fey, feminine misunderstood aura of sweetness and gentleness was powerful. We forget how powerful it was. And he worked it.

Think of it: he paraded his "lovers" in front of the whole world for years and for the most part, everybody bought the explanations given: No childhood. A loving spirit too pure for this world. I remember speculating like everyone else re whether he was gay or not, while tuning out the little boys constantly by his side.

James Safechuck and Wade Robson - I am in awe of your courage. I believe you. As a mental health professional who has worked with many victims of sexual abuse, I believe you. Thank you for you strength and courage. #LeavingNeverland

I told him why go to all the trouble of NDAs and million dollar payoffs to get some white tail when a simple Quaalude will do the trick.

I think he molested Culkin but not Lewis. IMO he viewed Lewis as he did Bubbles. This is Diane Dimond's book (see link). See was soooooo out on from on this.

The desperation has reached a fever pitch...

[quote]Now to wrap this all up Safechuck also stated in the “documentary” that Michael didn’t want him around women after he hit puberty.

[quote][Here are photos of Safechuck around a women (Lisa, Michael’s wife at the time) on the set of a commercial that Michael was shooting for HIStory.

I should add, he only befriended celebrity black children, never sought out everyday kids like he did non black boys. Even the black celebrity children didn't last long in his orbit.

R586, one of the kids said that he once came outside at Neverland on crutches. After he played it up, he threw them in the bushes and started laughing. He used it to manipulate. Surprised, surprise, he showed up at his trial on crutches and in pajamas. He was so calculating.

R585 Apologies, I meant no PHYSICAL VIOLENCE. Important distinction. Of course there was violence, and you were right to point it out. What I meant in my post was that too many people equate abuse with physical violence. If there is no physical violence, there is no abuse in their minds.

That pic at r437, WHAT THE FUCK? A figurative and literal monster.

R589 MJ viewed that black child the same as he viewed his monkey? The Stormfront forum must be shut down today.

No, Mac, a victim, refusing to perform victimhood according to your dictates does not make him WORSE than Jackson, who raped dozens of boys. Stop trying to shift the focus from Jackson.

DARVO

Deny

Attack

Reverse victim and offender

R584, I am not white. To be honest, I am more into white adult guys sexually. To me, blonde, blue eyes white men are the most beautiful ones on this planet. I am just attracted to them naturally. Luckily I am not attracted to young guys. However, I sort of understand why MJ gave those blonde , blue eyes white boys rather than black boys "special friend" status. In general, it is horrible. I always blame myself racism but I can't help being more turned on by white men.

My thoughts on Leaving Neverland he did it all. The end

R591 It was probably different with his wife.

Part Five:

I’m finally getting around to watching the documentary itself, having followed the coverage pretty avidly. Almost done with the first part, and am astounded that anyone has the audacity and the cruelty to doubt these two men. Both of them come off as totally believable. Seriously — if you haven’t watched it and you doubt them, you are a moron. If you have and you still doubt them, you are amoral.

Desperation on behalf of who? MJ's defenders or the people who believe the men?

R591 Desperation on behalf of who? MJ's defenders or the people who believe the men? Please reply in the new thread.

How fucking stupid, R591. As if MJ was worried about Safechuck banging Lisa Marie Presley. Pitiful.

[quote] It's so sick but what's sicker is knowing how Culkin could empower survivors of sexual abuse and choses not to.

WTF is wrong with you? It's unfortunate that Culkin won't acknowledge that he was molested, but it's not sicker than the molestation itself.

I laughed so hard at that tweet at R591. If that doesn't prove that his defenders have an IQ of a flea, nothing does. Btw, Michael didn't say he didn't want them near women, he didn't like James having a 4th grade girlfriend and having a crush on Sheryl Crowe.

[quote]If Jackson is innocent why did he so quickly pay off the child for $20 million. Why did he not bring it to the FBI and have them exposed for blackmailers and criminals?

EXACTLY. A truly innocent person wouldn't give a DIME to anyone accusing them of something so horrible. Any and all false accusations of molestation should be fought to death, because as Charles Barkley said at that time, "You can't let people think you sleep with babies."

I recently saw Peter Pan , never actually seen it before and it struck me that Michael was imitating the Peter Pan voice! What the actual hell?! Am I just mishearing?