The People Who Don't Believe Michael Jackson Was a Pedophile are As Bad as Flat Earthers

Same, how do you talk to these people? They will straw man you with the racist card, they will pull out every excuse for this disgusting pedo. What can you say to them? I feel I must get some word in because I find it so repulsive to hear people defending him.

I was really impressed with how bravely Oprah approached this, ten years after he died.

It really doesn't bother me. Years ago, I wasn't so sure. At this point it doesn't matter anyway, children are safe, he can't hurt them.

I, for sure, wouldn’t allow them around my kids unsupervised.

He may be dead, but it's important for victims of molestation for the truth to come out, it hurts all victims of molestation when victims are disbelieved. It looks like Rev Swan was getting deservedly ratioed here in this tweet. This man is a preacher and disbelieving the victims with the usual comments.

The FBI investigated Michael Jackson for 10 years straight.

They never found a single trace of wrong doing anywhere.

Wade robson also has a strong history of lying.

Well any man, with no real apparent adult sexual relationships, who has alarms set up leading to his bedroom where he hosts sleepovers with kids, is questionable. He wasn’t some mentally challenged human being with a mind of child. He was a musical genius, businessman who knew exactly how to get what he wanted and how to manipulate the media concerning is image. He was sharp. So he knew exactly what he was doing. And we know pretty much exactly what he did. This wasn’t a witch hunt. It’s not that the FBI found nothing. There was just no 100% sure fire legal evidence to put him away. You can’t bring a trial against someone fully based on lies. It’s like saying because OJ was aquited that the FBI found nothing in him. I’m black and can just look at all of the stories and know Michael was guilty of what he was accused of. I mean who makes up Jesus Juice?

That’s a lie, R6.

Abusers are often abused themselves. After seeing the doc, it seems more likely to me that Papa Joe pimped a young MJ out to promote the Jackson 5

Honestly, before I watched I was not so sure. I kept thinking these people testified for him. Then I heard their stories. So exact, so alike. I thought there was no way he did not molest those kids and he must have done it to all of them. Even the ones who say he didn't. I threw up when the one made a point that it was a seven year old being forced to suck an adult male penis. That made me physically ill

The levels of consistent details in their stories was staggering and heartbreaking

r11, that's what stuck out at me, too.

I feel for those victims and anyone who knows about the psychology of why victims don't come forward, would understand why they didn't.

I had trouble listening to Jackson's music since the rumors first came out in the late 80's about abuse, then the Bashir documentary and the trial...now this and I can't stomach it anymore, it makes me feel ill.

I loved his music and grew up listening to the Jackson 5 as a child.

[quote]Honestly, before I watched I was not so sure.

Seriously? People never fail to surprise me. I'm actually shocked that there's one person out there in the world who wasn't sure, even before Jackson's death, that he was a molester.

Yesterday I went to the grocery store and it played "Billie Jean." Before anytime I heard it I would bop my head. Now I just felt uncomfortable.

I grew up in a family that worshiped his music, if not him. I'll never be able to listen to his music the same way again.

Where can I watch the Oprah interview? I'm not American...

Bishop Talbert Swan got retweeted by AOC an hour ago and now he's digging in on his victim blaming. He's sickening. AOC needs to do a better job of platforming. This guy is a raging homophobe and a proponent of conversion therapy. If you are on Twitter, give this asshole hell.

Can we add Jussie believers too?

yes but who sexually abused MJ?

I love all the MJ outrage so many years after his death. Such bravery. Especially since everyone knew of the atrocities he was committing. Is everyone truly surprised? Our brave response is to stop listening to MJ songs on the radio? Similarly, where’s all the outrage now with what is happening to our government and our society in general? All the bigotry and hatred has been so easy to accept. We know it’s wrong and yet we do nothing about it. I can’t wait until all you brave souls speak out after the fat, orange piece of shit chokes to death on a greasy burger. What are you going to do, boycott Big Macs?

I doubt people are going to change their minds. These are hardly news, MJ was surrounded by this kind of rumours last part of his life and fans didn't moved from his side.

Sam Smith was trashed not son long ago for just saying he didn't like MJ

I could not agree more with R14.

Why are the blacks coming to his defense? Is that a black thing?

The owner of the now-defunct Z board went off at length a few years ago about MJ not being a pedo and only idiots believed he was, at which point I stopped going there.

Don't be an asshole, R22. "The blacks" are doing no such thing.

R22 No, people of all races, and all ages (some people who didn't even grow up with MJ) are defending him. Why are you MJ attackers so vicious anyway? You'll say something to the effect of, "You wouldn't let a grown man sleep with your child would you?" and once they agree, still berate them. If you feel so strongly about his guilt, there are plenty of advocates who you can talk to, but just face the facts that there is too much doubt in the case of MJ.

[quote]Similarly, where’s all the outrage now with what is happening to our government and our society in general?

Everywhere, all over the place, 24/7.

Frankly, when there is this much dobut, I rather err on the side of our justice system. Twitter has shown what can happen when we let the "moral majority" have free reign.

And Robson's original testimony didn't save Jackson. The Arvizo case collapsed fairly quickly.

r19 too often it takes sexual favors to get ahead in show business. Not all of the showbiz gatekeepers are interested in adult women and men. Very ironic that Cory Feldman of all people is defending this.

r27 where is all the doubt? This guy had money and as Oprah said, celebrity wins over criminality almost every time. It took 60 plus women over decades to finally bring down Bill Cosby. If you were ever molested or understand the psychology of why these victims didn't speak the truth sooner, you would understand. People are upset because this pedo ruined the lives of many young boys and used his celebrity to get off.

Wade is a known manipulator and liar. Who knows if he and James didn’t converse with each other before filming the docu?

R31 They have the same lawyers.

“Known manipulator” sounds so legit, R30. Idiot.

I was a kid when Jackson was popular and even I wondered what was going on with all the kids hanging around him. It didn't get as much press as it would nowadays with social media, though, so you could go months without hearing about it. But then when I was 14 or so he announced Neverland and from that moment on, I avoided his music as much as I could, but that was difficult if you listened to the radio at all. By the time of the first accusations, no one was really surprised.

It's been 25 years and still people act like they can't believe it's true. At this late date, with everything that has come out, it's insanity.

When is Oprah going to sit down with Harvey Weinsteins accusers? And Roger Ailes accusers? She even went after 19 year old Chris Brown in 2009 when he and rihanna there physical altercation. But she hasn't sat down with harveys accusers yet.

Oprah is cancelled! She's always loved white people. TPTB are going to get her next.

Oprah is one of the TPTB r36

[quote] This guy had money and as Oprah said, celebrity wins over criminality almost every time.

That isn't necessarily true. What is true is that celebs are more likely to be targeted. I see no benefit to being a celebrity in today's era. The really smart ones have withdrawn completely from all social media.

[quote] If you were ever molested or understand the psychology of why these victims didn't speak the truth sooner, you would understand.

I do believe these guys went through something that seriously impacted them. In a way, they missed out on a traditional childhood with Robson even blaming Jackson for his father's death. However, the details of their sexual abuse don't line up for reasons I have already explained in previous threads (criminal vs civil suits, details being taken from a fictional book, changing testimonies, etc.)

There we're people in the Jackson family who felt very uncomfortable with Jackson having so many white kids around. They even tried to stop it. He aunt even tried to talk to him but he wouldn't listen.

MJs downfall was having so many white kids around. He should've just stuck with doing things with black children like his family was aiming for.

MJ kinda did this to himself!

R37 I don't think so.

[quote] I see no benefit to being a celebrity in today's era.

I agree. Being a celebrity in this 24/7 tabloid culture would be no fun. You continually have to watch what you say or do and worry that you might have said or did something unsavory in your past.

OP. You have omitted the verb from your second sentence.

I know, R41. So sad. Can’t even tape yourself pissing on underage girls or jack off on drugged up women or beat up your girlfriend or lock yourself in a bedroom with an unrelated, seven year old boy without people trying to get all in your business decades later.

I hate that people like Diane Dimond and Tom Sneddon are getting validated by this doc. The amount of stories Dimond had to retract on Hard Copy is quite hilarious. These people were hell bent on getting MJ and didn't succeed even after years of trying.

People like Diane Dimond and Gloria Allred were the SJW villains of their day.

These people defending Michael Jackson are they same ones who get in an uproar about Catholic priests diddling boys. Funny how they can’t see any parallels.

No one ever saw the raw testimony. These two, just telling their stories so matter of factly had a huge impact on me.

r46 totally agree. I don't know what is wrong with the rabid Michael Jackson defenders. They are unwilling to discuss facts or learn about the psychology of why victims don't come forward. It's like trying to talk to people who continue to support Donald Trump. They strawman, conflate, use bad faith arguments and the victim blaming is the most disgusting thing.

Yes, but that’s because you’re not crazy, R47.

Yo, I'm da pastor of da Baptist Church. We need to stand by our brother in Christ, Michael Jackson. Cause dat what Jesus want.

r50 so vile seeing people of the cloth defend him. I was molested by a deacon in one of these evangelist churches and couldn't talk about it for decades.

Like with the OJ jury, there are a lot of people who would need to see a crime first hand or on video to believe it happened. Even then, they would probably believe the video was doctored.

R38 if you can listen to James Safechuck's account of his abuse and maintain he's lying, you are either a terrible person or not very bright.

Michael was one of 10 siblings. He grew up sharing a bed in Gary with some of his 5 brothers: on the road at hotel stops, tour buses, at home. He shared a bed. It is possible he didn't see sharing a bed as a sexual thing.

Wade Robson, one of the accusers, referred to himself as a master of deception once.

I just don't think Michael's interest in children was sexual. I think he had arrested development and suffered from Peter Pan Syndrome along with Body dysmorphia and narcissism. He was a total nutcase and psychological mess, but I don't think he was a pedophile

R54, what do you make of the fact that one of his accusers was able to accurately describe his penis? Or that the stories of different accusers ended up being similar without them knowing it?

R54. Sure Jan. Pedophile apologist.

Meant r55. Not r54.

R54. Sorry r55. My phone is going crazy.

R54 you're just objectively wrong. He did it, and now every sensible, rational, decent person knows he did it. There's no more debating it.

Now, you can say you don't CARE that he did it, which is what I suspect is the case anyway.

Dr. Murray deserves an apology. It wasn't a drug overdose that killed Michael, it was Michael's guilty conscience that did him in

The Law and judicial process accepts Medical science, flat earthers dont. Laws re very very clear about Peddtion on Children + PRISON. There are entire dark web sites dedicated to sharing grooming tips and avoiding the law AND WITNESSES. Jackson followed them all - including trying to delay the case until the boys were 18.

Pedophiles do not molest in the company of family, employees, parents, neighbors - the Jax fans are stupid - the whole point is NO WITNESSES.

Children are blank slates, barely developing a sense of self - what is done to them goes to the very very center of the rest of their lives, at the very least DECADES.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY STATUE OF LIMITATIONS FOR CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE ARE CHANGING BECAUSE THE DAMAGE DOESNT SURFACE FOR DECADES AND MAY NEVER BE REPAIRED. Jackson’s evil kiddy diddling will stay with these men forever.

Says the LAW: “Child sexual abuse can happen anywhere, and it is clear that it may take years and even decades for victims to become fully aware of their abuse, their injuries, and their rights in coming forward to hold abusers and their enablers accountable while obtaining financial recovery for their injuries. Fortunately, California state law provides extended time by which survivors of child sexual abuse can come forward via the state’s statute of limitations.” Jackson supporters, family, friends ensure Pedophilia will continue forever.

Real change is when Molesters are the focus - shut down in this society and justice delivered when circumstantial evidence results in guilt. Focusing on victims, or attacking anyone trying to talk about it is as perverted as the Predators themselves.

Oh, can’t we have 20 more threads on Michael Jackson please???!

I don't think Jackson ever felt guilty for what he did. I think what happened is he was paying so much hush money out every year to the many victims of his abuse that eventually the well was starting to dry up. He couldn't even keep up with his regular bills anymore. He knew that no more hush money meant that he was inevitably going to end up in court again. Also, he was severely underweight and not in good health, he was physically unable to do the massive tour that his people wanted him to do in order to make money. It was all crashing down around him. He didn't have the balls to do it himself so he had his doctor pump him full of Diprivan until it was too much for his body to take.

R63 I agree. MJ was wracked with pain, insomnia, depression, and general poor health. He was 5'10" and weighed 110 lbs at autopsy. He did his share of suffering before he expired, and I agree he was ready to die.

[quote]There's no more debating it.

Well smell you.

I also place as much blame on the parents for prostituting their children.

Wade claimed that after he had become a father was when he realized what MJ did to him was wrong. But in the document below, we see he was begging to be involved in Mj's show. This after his son was born. I was initially on the fence about Wade because I couldn't see how someone who had supposedly spent so much time with Michael and knew how much his fans would fight for him would lie. I said he must be telling the truth because he knows how crazy his life will become if he was to say this about MJ. After reading up on him...this dude is a damn liar. He cannot be trusted. And I hope this backfires on him. It looks to me that his reputation in the industry was tainted after that Britney situation. The only gigs he was really getting were MJ related. And when he no longer could get those jobs...he goes and does this. I feel like shit for even giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Here we go posting the same exact post on multiple threads again.

We heard you the first 3 times you posted it.

This is why you only need one thread at a time per subject. It’s all the same posts in each thread.

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME AND ENERGY.

[quote]I just don't think Michael's interest in children was sexual.

Well, that settles that, then. Time to take down all these threads.

R67 Don't forget, he didn't come out with this Michael Jackson child molestation shit and wanting to sue the Jackson estate until he started having financial problems a few years back.

Then comes the documentary and tv interviews etc. He's going to ride this gravy train his whole life the exact same way christina crawford is riding the joan crawford abused her train for the last 40 plus years.

There's just to many inconsistencies for me to know what's true and what isn't.

^Right. As shady as his mom is, this could be a case of the apple not falling far from the tree.

Just say, “ I didn’t watch the documentary and I’m not going to,” R67 and R70. That way people won’t waste time reading your stupid shit.

P.S. Safechuck.

To Michael's,defenders... in the documentary they showed Gavin's interview with law enforcement. He looked nervous and timid. He described how Michael touched him the first time. It was the same scenario that Wade and Jimmy described of how they were first touched. I keep hearing defenders say that Jimmy and Wade got their stories from some book. Then how can you explain Gavin saying in 2005 that the exact same thing was done to him?

There is so much evidence it's not even funny. Jordan's description and picture matched Michael's genitalia. The cooks and maids saw inappropriate behavior. 4 boys have separately come forward and said he abused them. Unfortunately, since the dawn of the internet, I always see people who refuse to believe the obvious, even with non celebrity cases.

I wish he had molested me. I’d have been a real ho and got that money up front. Smart ho!

The FBI raids came up with nothing. TWO of them.

Have they ever examined Neverland with cadaver dogs ?

Exactly R75. They came up with ZERO! No evidence of any wrongdoing whatsoever.

Not to mention that 10 year FBI investigation. That to came up empty.

I have a question for those that think MJ is innocent. After the accusations in the early 90's, why then didn't MJ stop hanging around and sleeping in bed with young boys? If there wasn't a compulsion there, why continue to do something that obviously put him under enormous scrutiny, tarnished his reputation, and cost him tens of millions of dollars?

Stop lying, local police raided Neverland, not the FBI. He had a naked photo of Jonathan Spence, that's not nothing. Michael also employed the services of Anthony Pellicano. Innocent my ass!

Can't wait for this guy to talk.

He was a pedophile. But that doesn't take away from the fact that these 2 pieces of shit from the documentary are grifters

They gave depositions and testified in court that Michael never assaulted them. And they did it all for money. Now that the money has run out, they want to tell the truth, so they can get more money. Fuck them. Had they have originally told the truth, they'd have prevent other kids from getting molested

They were happy to take money from Michael to lie on the stand during Michael's molestation trial. And that prevented that family from getting money from Jackson. They were brave enough to come forward, which is a thousand times more than you can say for those pieces of shit, safechuk and robeson. They're two money grubbing cunts. If they want to sue anyone, they should sue their parents for literally selling their asses to Michael Jackson. When Jackson was accused of molestation, the parents didn't keep the kids away from Michael. They said, "buy us a house and you can keep fucking my kid"

When Michael the pedophile met 9 year old Jimmy filming a Pepsi commercial with him. He was raping, fellating and abusing this little boy with a year. This precious child, doomed for life. Within 2 years he had groomed Wade and was simultaneously molesting them both apparently on a rotating schedule.

He was a monster that turned self pity “I never had a childhood” into a destructive, evil mind bending lifetime of seducing and then abusing and kidnapping children.

I loved Jacksons talent, but as a functioning adult I begin to get suspicious early on. I am drinking a toast to the death of Michael Jackson tonight, I only wish he had died earlier.

Russian Bots and Trolls are going to have a great time with this controversy in the media. Thanks to the JacksPedophiles.

Oh god with the lies about the FBI raid. You people are pathetic. There’s no point, R73. You’re talking to some extraordinarily ignorant people.

Where were all these people when Michael Jackson was on trial for child molestation?

Oh yes, they were taking money to shut up or in the case of the 2 grifters safechuk and robeson, they were taking money to lie on the stand

Shame on every fucking one of them. If they get any money the brave kid who took Michael to court should sue each and every one of those lying cunts. They are the ones who fought, lied and cheated to keep michael jackson from going to jail

[quote] Russian Bots and Trolls are going to have a great time with this controversy in the media. Thanks to the JacksPedophiles.

No, safechuk and robeson are the two that kept Jackson from being convicted and free to molest more children. And the only reason these two lying cunts did it, was MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It's the only reason they are doing this now. money, Money, MONEY

While I wish they would have told the truth at the trial, you have to understand they were and are still fucked up. Safechuck, didn't testify in 2005, much to Michael's wrath. From what I can tell, they haven't received a cent. If they were money grubbers they would have extorted Jackson when Jordan made the allegations. They didn't. They stayed loyal to him and helped him. They didn't benefit all that much. They would have gotten a hell of a lot more in hush money had they threatened to go public or testify against him.

"When Jackson was accused of molestation, the parents didn't keep the kids away from Michael. They said, "buy us a house and you can keep fucking my kid""

I believe Michael is guilty, but I also agree with this comment. The parents of these boys are at least 50% to blame for what happened, they had to know what was going on.

I think part of the reason that it is difficult for victims of abuse to acknowledge it to themselves is because in cases like these, in doing so, you also have to acknowledge the complicity of the adults in your life who were supposed to protect you, but didn't. It's not just facing what Michael did to them. It's also about facing what their own family, their MOTHERS, did to them. Jackson was a brilliant groomer, he knew to choose kids whose families he could manipulate to not only approve but encourage the "relationships" with these boys. And it worked like a dream. Almost too easy.

Holy shit they are worse than flat earthers. My workmate frequents Lipstick Alley. I know we don't like to mention LSA here but I just mentioned it because she said that there are rabid Jackson fans starting threads on John Legend and Oprah and just ripping them to shreds. Oprahs fathers a molester etc. The comments are delusional. Jackson might of overstepped boundaries by having kids in his bed but it was his love of children nothing sexual etc. They are also bringing up the race card. Some of the comments are very very scary they are that delusional and I hope Oprah and John Legend have upped their security.

And more morons weigh in at R80 and R83 and R84. Just say, “I didn’t watch the documentary and I’m not going to.” James is a grifter? Fuck you. You don’t even have the most basic understanding of what abused children go through, how their entire world views are reshaped by their abusers, and how common it is for the abused to desperately defend their abusers. It’s basic psychology.

And how fucking ridiculous you are, R84. A special kind of idiot who says Michael Jackson did molest kids, just not these kids, because these kids had more cluelessly starstruck parents than the other kids. What is wrong with you?

[quote] If they were money grubbers they would have extorted Jackson when Jordan made the allegations.

That depends. Perhaps Wade thought he could benefit with MJ's association. All he was doing was MJ tribute shows at that point.

[quote] Safechuck, didn't testify in 2005, much to Michael's wrath.

Safechuck wasn't named in any eyewitness accounts. His testimony would not have been relevant.

All this has been public knowledge for over a decade now but MJ fans keep having to address these issues again and again.

The FBI actually did raid the place and had him under surveillance.

Contrarians. They are simply contrary to anything suggested to them.

Seriously why do these people feel the need to protect Michael Jackson? He was a drug addicted, body simorphic, misogynistic, lying pedophile? He was no mother Theresa.

I did watch the documentary and don't feel that it makes Jackson look good in any way. He was desperately lonely and trapped by fame. Not only did he not have a childhood, but he didn't have an adulthood either. Wade and James both looked up to him as a father figure and I'm sure he really did disappoint them. However, if that was the whole story, no one would care. They want to sensationalize it with sordid tales of sex abuse. Dan Reed said that this wasn't a story about Jackson. Yet had he made a film about two guys, one a complete unknown, who claimed sexual abuse by a stranger, no one would even look twice.

That's racist!! I means even though MJ turned himself eggshell white and did not want anything to do with black people or culture, African Americans defend him vociferously .

None of his defenders are claiming he's a perfect person. In fact, he was very flawed. That doesn't make him guilty of child abuse.

Some of the people defending MJ need to look at their implicit bias.

The worst are the Flat Assers.

R90, the FBI technically assisted the local law enforcement agencies, they themselves didn't raid his home or have a 10 year investigation. Stop the bullshit, especially when you are providing links that make you look like a liar.

R95, what makes him guilty is four boys saying he molested them. Nude pictures in his room of naked boys he classified as 'art.' Constantly surrounded by boys of a certain age. Sleeping with these boys on a nightly basis. Writing them love letters. That makes him guilty in my book.

The people defending MJ grew up on his music, and love Michael the artist. They cant accept that someone they admired that much could be capable of this. And they are gullible, just like Trump supporters. Plus, when money starts being the first concern, rather than prosecuting a criminal, the water gets muddied.

Wade is scuzzy and sneaky. Don’t trust him. When Oprah asked them if they’d have done this documentary if Michael was still alive and they said yes, my eyes rolled.

He turned into a really EVIL person and he had MANY soulless enablers like Liz Taylor, Lisa Marie and the evil cunt who sired babies for him to abuse .

[quote]MJ turned himself eggshell white and did not want anything to do with black people or culture

Apparently you’ve never seen this video or listened to the lyrics...

The people defending him are as stupid as the people still defending Jussie Smollett.

He wasn’t sexually into kids he just liked being around them he was stunted at around age 10, very creepy.

What about the many Spacey defenders here on DL?

R105, everyone knows they are trash and trolls.

And, honestly, R100, people who attack Robson frequently have problems with the truth themselves. They lie and invent “facts,” yet they don’t see the irony.

R102, I'm not the poster who made the comment, but Michael only turned to the black community when he was in trouble. That song is vile with his anti-Semitic lyrics aimed at the Chandler family. The irony being that the kids he had were from a Jewish father (no way the dermatologist isn't Prince's bio father) and Debbie Rowe who was a convert to Judaism. Michael was a user, who after he got what he needed, discarded people at will. Michael Jackson was an evil man.

Louis Farrakhan chiming in at R102.

“Kick me kike me” is not anti Semitic. It’s all about context.

When Wade was denied a job in the MJJ Cirque show was when he started remembering abuse. Those documents at R67 are pretty telling.

R109 It's so easy to manufacture outrage these days. I feel sorry for kids today.

That’s not true, R110. But, tell me, did Safechuck get denied a part in the MJ Cirque show too?

R93 He wasn't a father figure to them. He presented himself as a peer. The super cool popular kid everyone wants to be friends with. They both had relationships with their own fathers before Jackson came into their lives. Wade's father got shut out after Jackson encouraged his mother to move to America. His father liked Jackson before that. Safechuck's father liked Jackson. The documentary didn't focus much on MJs childhood. I question if you really watched the documentary.

But he's not an unknown R93. He was the biggest musical icon in the world, so of course this will get more attention than the average person. The sexual details were necessary and I'm glad they didn't sugar coat it. They showed the depth of the abuse and it was impactful. In many ways, the emotional abuse was even more harmful than the sexual abuse. Frankly, I don't give a fuck whether Michael had a childhood or not. Many people, including myself, had a tough upbringing with abuse. It doesn't give anyone the right to go out and ruin a child's life. He didn't have an adulthood? Are you serious? The guy had everything at his feet, he could have done anything in the world, but he chose to be a pervert.

You have to be a special kind of evil to see what MJ did to James Safechuck and then accuse James of a money grab.

I agree R53. Safechuck looks permenantly damaged and sad. He would have to be one of the great actors in history to fake that kind of internal pain

[quote]I don't give a fuck whether Michael had a childhood or not. Many people, including myself, had a tough upbringing with abuse. It doesn't give anyone the right to go out and ruin a child's life.

Exactly, and I think it should be noted that Lundy Bancroft in one of his books on abuse pointed out that a study showed 65% or so of men in jail for abusing women and children would claim they had been abused themselves as kids, but once they were asked to take a lie detector, the percentage of men claiming they had been abused dropped by half.

The "he was abused" claim is often more a trick than actual sympathy.

Is James currently getting mental health treatment? He looks extremely fragile and I think his wife is clueless. I'm gathering James isn't on speaking terms with his parents, so the wife is the only adult he has in his life.

Too many people bought into MJ's sob story act; I'm so lonely.

Bitch, you spent most of your life trying to get away from people. If you're so goddamn lonely; go to a grocery story, leave your fucking house. You won't be lonely anymore.

How is this different than the other threads? It’s all the same comments as in the other threads.

What’s the point in so many threads? What is the true purpose of that?

The "I didn't have a childhood" pity story was just another way of drawing sympathy from his current and future victims.

In the history of the world, he was one of only a handful of people who spent way more years than most people's childhood years being the center of attention, getting everything he wanted, being adored.

The fact that Wade got the MJ Cirque gig, then quit it, and then asked to go back shows how conflicted he was about MJ. There's nothing damning about that letter at all.

If you defend MJ, you are either really stupid, or you are a terrible person.

Just the whole grooming, I mean a year of faxes to Robson telling him he loved him, giving him a pet name. Showering the parents with gifts. Making himself look like a big kid so the parents would feel totally safe letting their kids sleep with a grown man. And the same pattern, over and over. He was a fucking monster.

The scariest part of the interview was Wade describing his first night at Neverland... Removed from his parents, sleeping in MJ's bed. Seven years old and then wakes up in the dark to the sound of Michael sobbing in the shadows. In the Oprah interview he said it was like confronting the werewolf character out MJ's Thriller. Michael's pedo mask was off at that point and he was probably crying out of sheer gratitude. He was a kiddie fucker.

When he told the story of having a growth spurt and being 5'11"in his teens - and Michael trying to fuck him..and Wade ended up bleeding from the attempt. Then calling him up and telling him to destroy the underwear if it had blood on it, I thought he was just waiting for one of them to be old enough to take it...what a fucking monster.

The "why are there multiple threads about MJ" troll is almost as tiresome. Use the ignore button if the presence of these threads bothers you so damn much. Jesus.

Imagine R123 imagine how exhausting that had to be, you know Jackson didn't care about the parents and the other siblings and the other eyes that were always watching, the extraordinary efforts he went through to "fool everyone" and get those boys alone with him. I think all those surgeries on his face and the skin whitening he was trying to make himself appear more white, like the boys he favored. And the costume clothing he wore, the high voice, the Neverland kid-themed estate. ALL of it, one big collective mask to hide what he really was.

[quote] Not to mention that 10 year FBI investigation

There was no 10 year investigation by the FBI.

Taj and Marlon speak

I'm not even clicking on the link. Anyone collecting regular checks from the Michael Jackson Estate is not worth hearing from on this subject.

Michael worked very hard to make sure that there were no witnesses to his crimes. Only 2 people would know what happened; he would never speak about it and he spent a lot of time making sure his victims would not tell what happened.

Among the many sad aspects of this situation is all the time that Michael spent grooming his victims for their abuse and all the time he spent before and after covering up his crimes. That time could have much better been used creating more music and dance that millions would have enjoyed.

The brothers

A documentary is supposed to feature both sides of the story, correct? Since MJ is no longer here, why not interview a lawyer or a family member?

[quote] A documentary is supposed to feature both sides of the story, correct?

Not necessarily. And this one went out of its way to say it's purpose wasn't to show both sides.

R132 Are you in the third grade regurgitating something your English composition teacher told you to do for an assignment?

If only Shoah had showed Hitler's side of the story I'm sure this whole misunderstanding could've been cleared up.

"He put his finger in my butt..." So, that's as far as things ever really went? A bunch of talk about oral on each other, some nipple play and looking at ass, is that it? Mutual masturbators.

R135, you are sick. Wade was 7 years old for fuck's sake! Michael mentally, emotionally and sexually abused them. He was a manipulator and a monster.

For those keeping score, we've heard defense from some of the Jackson family, but others have kept their Las Vegas Residency mouth shut on this.

Jackson nasty!

R137, too stupid to exist.

R134 getting into a huff over a simple question.

Not everyone was able to cash-in.

[quote]I'm not even clicking on the link

Why not? If you’re so secure in your stance on the matter, why not hear the opposite side? And how in the hell do you know they are benefitting from MJ’s estate? Are you in their bank accounts, it is that more guessing on your part?

Blacks will vociferously defend other blacks.

The opposite side of the story is that those family members don't have any more knowledge of what really went on behind those multiple locked doors and alarms than we do.

Of course, if you're enough of an idiot to believe the Saint Michael lies, then you're enough of an idiot to believe that these Jackson family members have high paying jobs and aren't getting any money from the estate.

R142 True, had they clicked on the link they would have learned that they are not benefiting from the estate. Only his kids are.

Anyone with two eyes could have looked at that freakshow and known he was mentally deranged.

I wonder how many parents left Neverland, uncomfortable with a suggestion Michael made about staying the night and the child sleeping with him separate from his family. I need to believe the freaks who stayed were few and far between.

From what I have read on other websites, there will be a HUGE attempt by the Jacksons to combat this film---as they depend on Michael for $$, posthumously. If people stop buying his music, or other items which benefit the estate, they're screwed. Lisa Marie will also be making appearances to combat this, due to looking like an enabler. JUST WATCH. And kudos, to John Legend--first, R.Kelly, now Michael. He speaks his truth, and that's refreshing for a performer, as most walk on eggshells to try to not offend fans!

R146, I've wondered that too. Is it case that anyone can be seduced or were there actual normal parents who ran with their kids the minute he let his freak flag fly? I do think he knew who to target. Jordan's parents were in a custody dispute, Culkin came from a fucked up family, Wade and Jimmy had stage moms and weak fathers, Spence had no father. Most of the kids wanted careers in the entertainment industry so there is that extra level of power he had, much like Spacey. Except these were very young kids with very stupid parents. I also think if the moms refused once a kid was in his clutches, the kid would turn on the mom. It's all very twisted.

Predators definitely know who they can target and who they can't.

Bill Cosby targeted a lot of women, but he didn't try that shit with Phylicia Rashad

Was MJ cut or uncut?

Did he even have a dick Or was it surgically removed?

He was a real life monster. A pedophiles ultimate dream life. I celebrated his death. Finally karma got an evil one.

R149 he had the credibity of “Neverland” for the poor’s and sick’s, idea of getting away from the “abuse of the press that just doesnt understand.” Traveling 1st class for a while is something you never forget in this economically stratified society. Jackson’s game was very very good. Remember Wade? Safechuck? describe awaking in the middle of the night to the sound of Michael sobbing because he was leaving the next day?

Cunning in the way of a serial killer.

Michael Jackson offered the public a deal--"buy that I am sui generis, neither male nor female, neither young nor old, but some gender-bending Peter Pan and you can take the leap of faith that, what otherwise would indisputably be a 40 year-old man having abnormal relationships with pre-pubescent boys, is just a magical lark in Neverland. Because I am in a category all by myself, normal rules are inapplicable unless your dirty mind insists on it." Buy it?

He needed the draw of a fantasy Neverland to draw susceptible children into his clutches. The innocent, childlike Peter Pan act was also needed part of his crimes.

If it was just your 40 year old co-worker asking if your child could stay with him next weekend, it would never work.

R145, that’s not true. MJ’s mother is the beneficiary of part of the estate; she is the beneficiary of a trust. During MJ’s life she gave money she got from MJ to the rest of Jackson family, and it’s assumed that she does so now.

There was a quote in VF that his MO was to get the kids on such a sensory endorphin overload at Neverland with all-night videogames, tons of toys and candy, that the abuse at night wouldn't even register with them.

"The scariest part of the interview was Wade describing his first night at Neverland."

No the scariest part of the entire show was learning MJ was (a) a top and (b) he liked tit play. TMI

How much could Michael Jackson's estate really be bringing in every year now? Michael was having trouble paying his bills in the years before he died.

R160, it made over $800 million last year.

R160, he is worth more dead than alive. All his pay-offs and his lavish lifestyle was depleting his liquid assets. When dead, the spending goes down. Plus, he was well past his prime when he died, now it's all about nostalgia.

"There was a quote in VF that his MO was to get the kids on such a sensory endorphin overload at Neverland with all-night videogames, tons of toys and candy, that the abuse at night wouldn't even register with them."

He was truly methodical and diabolical under the guise of being a gentle, talented man. Have you noticed that after mid 80's his talent waned significantly? He looked like the monster he was on the inside . I still can't fathom how the cute, charismatic kid from the 70's turned into this beast.

Look no further than the adults who raised him or actually didn't raise him just exploited him.

My BIL read the court documents from the 2005 trial and Michael used to put scary movies on late at night so the kids would be scared and cling to him. He was a master manipulator and demented soul.

Oh wow R161 R162 I had no idea it was still bringing that much money in! Damn! And it makes sense now with Jackson gone and no more of his lavish spending.

"Look no further than the adults who raised him or actually didn't raise him just exploited him."

By that argument, his siblings should be raping kids too.

Also, the "Jesus Juice "

[quote]Sam Smith was trashed not son long ago for just saying he didn't like MJ

So that's why Sam Smith ripped off MJ's song?

From being the youngest, to being the gayest, to being the most talented there are any number of factors why Michael would be the most exploited and the most twisted.

R136, there’s a decent possibility that R135 is a survivor of abuse and now a paedophile, because normal, sexually healthy people just don’t even think like that.

This documentary is really difficult to watch. It just is, especially if you’ve been sexually abused/assaulted as well. But I feel that it’s really important for the mental health of these two young men, as well as for others who survived MJ, yet have remained silent for personal reasons.

I believed the kids then, and I still believe them now. It’s so important to let them know that. We believe you. And the biggest lesson here is that when powerful people are accused of wrongdoing repeatedly, we need to listen.

Right now, as I type and we mutually engage in this thread, or other threads, there is someone out there who just like Michael, is using their money, position, prestige, popularity, and sob stories in order to actively hurt the most vulnerable among us, without any fear of retribution or justice. They get away with it because people like the MJ defenders on this thread, refuse to question their own belief systems and bias.

Those of you who defend MJ, and aren’t actual paid social media agents currently working for his estate, ask yourselves why you cannot actually sit down, and question your own thinking. What are your motives for denying wrongdoing, and defending him? He did nothing for you, but write and perform music that you appreciated. That was his JOB. He was PAID to share that with you. He was not your friend, your family, coworker, or neighbor. He was a complete stranger, whose music you enjoy. Your ability to question yourselves, and why you idolize anyone, is unhealthy for you, and helps perpetuate a system of denialism for future offenders. You are actually participating in furthering criminal behavior. People like you, are a big reason why humanity doesn’t do the right thing, and completely shut down the Catholic Church.

Think about that. People like you, actually HELP paedophiles in continued abuse of children, and future generations of children. You understand that, right???

Michael Jackson was no different than a paedophile priest, who was continuously protected by those who should have, and could have shut it all down, long ago.

Shame on you. I mean that. Some of you really do need help, and I hope that you can get it. Better late than never.

The rest of you cunts are paid to do this. And that’s one of the vilest things someone can do for a living.

I truly believe Macauley Culkin was a victim. He was MJ'S favorite for a while. MJ sought him out after Home Alone and took advantage of Mac's abusive homelife with his dad. MJ took a lot of time and established trust with not only the child, but their parents. He lavished gifts on both. He would rent out Toys R Us stores and let the kids go on a shopping spree. His fame and money made him the king of pedophiles. I AM GLAD HE IS DEAD!!!

R172, I 100% believe Culkin was abused by MJ. Perhaps one day, he’ll decide to share his story with us, or not. He has the right to do whatever he wishes.

Culkin went thru HELL as an adult. I wish him nothing but the best.

I mean the cook saw Culkin being abused by Michael and testified to it. I don't think he'lol ever admit it. For one, he's close to Michael's kids, especially Paris. I don't think he'd betray them. He has also denied it for years, he'll get the same treatment as Wade. I'm sure he is also embarrassed. I think he might still be under the spell that Jimmy and Wade are slowly coming out of.

Mac is becoming childlike in his own way. His bunny ears podcast is funny though . I hope he is ok. I truly believe Paris will admit it someday. The oldest son is clearly Fucked up. Not much on the youngest kid.

“we mutually engage in this thread, or other threads,”

We should just be in one thread at a time.

Years ago, when I used to visit this site, it was a cardinal sin to make duplicate threads. It just ruins the experience and the flow.

Who wants to go back and forth, reading and typing the same things.

It’s so insane. It’s indefensible.

Truly more horrific than Michael's atrocities. Get some coping skills utter up.

*buttercup

Why would I need to cope when people could be less selfish and messy and promote an organized experience.

Doesn’t that seem like the more functional solution?

How can you defend rampant dysfunction?

It comes down to laziness. And lack of respect.

His three kids(non bio) saw the real monster I am convinced that MJ was not that kind to them. Paris clearly is damaged and is her older bro.

[quote] Those of you who defend MJ, and aren’t actual paid social media agents currently working for his estate, ask yourselves why you cannot actually sit down, and question your own thinking. What are your motives for denying wrongdoing, and defending him? He did nothing for you, but write and perform music that you appreciated. That was his JOB. He was PAID to share that with you. He was not your friend, your family, coworker, or neighbor. He was a complete stranger, whose music you enjoy. Your ability to question yourselves, and why you idolize anyone, is unhealthy for you, and helps perpetuate a system of denialism for future offenders. You are actually participating in furthering criminal behavior. People like you, are a big reason why humanity doesn’t do the right thing, and completely shut down the Catholic Church.

I may have had my doubts about Jackson over the years, but I was interested in the subject enough to read the court transcripts and testimonials, and watch documentary footage and came to the conclusion that he didn't do any of those things. That doesn't mean I can't be convinced but Leaving Neverland didn't convince me after everything I've seen and heard from Wade Robson.

I watched Moonwalker and the Behind of the scenes of Thriller video countless times along with The Legend Continues, which was one of the few comprehensive documentaries available at the time. I even got into the whole Jackson 5 and Jacksons catalogue. So yes, I don't expect anyone who didn't grow up consuming everything MJ to feel the same sense of loss, but for the vast majority of his fans, that's simply not the case.

[quote] He needed the draw of a fantasy Neverland to draw susceptible children into his clutches. The innocent, childlike Peter Pan act was also needed part of his crimes.

I never thought Neverland was weird just as I didn't think Mr. Rodgers was weird for playing with sock puppets. Neverland was meant as an escape from the real world, which Jackson didn't venture into. However, having such a huge place couldn't replace the feeling that he was missing out on a normal life. I didn't prescribe any nefarious motives to him helping out disadvantaged children. He simply sought to bring joy and live vicariously through them.

And when I defend MJ, I'm not attempting to excuse his bad behavior, let alone pedophilia. I can acknowledge his flaws but I would never defend the indefensible. I think those who make false claims of sexual abuse hurt actual victims. As a sexual abuse victim myself, nothing I personally experienced or have read about in this specific case, have led me to believe that Wade or James are being honest about their sexual abuse claims. All I know is that they had a hard time adapting to normal life after being exposed to the most famous person in the world, and that both have apparently dealt with lots of personal problems since then that I can't even begin to guess.

R176, I understand what you’re saying, but please allow me to clarify what I meant by “other threads”: I meant other threads on DataLounge in general, not other threads about MJ.

This is the only MJ thread in which I’ve participated, since the airing of the documentary on HBO.

I haven’t even bothered reading the other threads, because even though it doesn’t bother me that there are multiple threads regarding this topic, I do agree that it’s a waste of my personal time to engage in multiple threads about the same exact thing.

If others choose to engage in multiple threads, that’s their business and prerogative. It’s really no skin off my nose, yes? It’s annoying for some, sure, but it’s not unique. It’s become quite common around here, and us DL old timers usually adjust, and move on.

r182 is black

R174 I think Mac is still under Jacksons spell. I heard him interviewed on WTF. He talks about Jackson in that "oh he was just like a kid and that's totally normal and cool" way. He's protective and defensive. I don't think he knows it was abuse, I think he thinks of it as a mutual relationship. He stayed close to MJ and the kids. He didn't really separate and start his own adult life. He comes off as lacking any purpose or direction and likely a druggy. He gets away with because he's got money.

About that "800 million"...

That figure probably represents total sales of music and memorabilia and other things owned by the Jackson Estate, not the total earnings of the Jackson Estate. The Estate would get a percentage of all those sales, probably a small percentage in most cases, which would mean … what, tens of millions of dollars going into the estate in a year? And salaries and upkeep of estate properties would be paid out of that, I suppose, so it's not like Jackson's kids actually have $800 million a year coming in.

Still, they have enough coming in to make trying to protect it worth their while. There's going to be a barrage of publicity from the estate's publicists, as well as from the unpaid idiot fans who can't let go of their illusions.

R182, I don't believe you watched documentary. Fans without an open mind will never be convinced of who this man really was because you have blinders on. How anyone can listen to James Safechuck and say he is not being truthful is beyond comprehension. Yet, you choose to believe a grown man who disfigured his face, slept with boys and sent them love letters and videos. James and Wade were not the only two boys/men to come forward. Michael paid off a boy because the child described his penis accurately. You say you aren't trying to excuse his pedophilia, yet that's exactly what you are doing. Doesn't accusing courageous victims of lying hurt sexual abuse victims? People like you are shaming victims into staying silent because it messes with your hero worship of a man who could sing and dance.

R182, then you probably understand a sliver of what it also meant for me. I LOVED his music, danced around the house to it, roller-skated to it at our local roller-rink, saw him perform at Dodger Stadium, etc.

Michael was an icon, and I am no different than any other fan out there. He was one of the greatest, ever. I’m not deaf. I knew it then, and still believe it to be true today. However, none of that prevents me from believing his accusers.

Look, I just don’t have the time and even energy to go over everything that I’ve researched throughout the years, regarding MJ, but I promise you that I really put in some serious time/hours of research, even AFTER I believed the accusations, because I felt that questioning my belief system in an objective and fair manner was important.

I’m a huge fan, just like you and others. But the reality and the cold hard facts lead to one of several truths: and that truth is that Michael Jackson did NOT sexually assault me. I do not need to go through stages of grief, including denial, in order to cope and/or heal, because I was not personally harmed by him. Those kids were personally harmed by him, and I will not condemn them for something they went through, just because a man whose music I still love, hurt THEM, NOT ME.

This isn’t personal to us, and our denial makes us fools, just like the parents who were also groomed in order to enable the abuse.

Michael Jackson was my first celebrity crush, so I spend a long time admiring him and forgiving him and wanting to like everything he did. But somewhere in the late eighties I realized that his relationship with all those little boys was mega-creepy and he was probably a pedophile, and then came the years and years of accusations and scandals and an ignominious death from massive drug abuse.

So I realized a long time ago what some people need to realize now - that a celebrity crush doesn't mean we owe the celebrity a damn thing.

We don't owe them forgiveness or defense if they behave badly or commit a crime, and we are fools if we idealize them to the point of denying reality. Feelings change, and if you find that someone you thought you loved turns out to be a monster, then the sensible thing to do is let your feelings change. If we found out that our real-life boyfriend was a serial killer we'd stop loving him if we weren't complete idiots, we'd realize that he was not the man we thought he was, and that since we didn't know the real man then we couldn't possibly love the real man. What we loved was an illusion, and I don't understand why people who love a celebrity's false image can't accept something so incredibly fucking obvious.

R185, Culkin has struggled with heroin addiction for much of his adult life. And please don’t diminish his pain and traumatic exposure to child abuse from his father, and very likely, Jackson, as referring to him as a druggie. People with addiction issues often contribute a great deal to the society in which they live.

Also, I think Culkin is now protecting Paris. They’re very close, and if I had to guess, I’d say that he has probably told her the truth about her dad.

No matter how much money MJ’s children end up with, they undoubtedly do not want to go through life, being known as the children of a serial paedophile, who also happened to be one of the most famous people to have ever lived.

Surely Paris, her siblings, and Culkin, have been advised by attorneys for the estate, and their security teams, to keep quiet about Jackson, due to rabid fans who could potentially become security threats. And of course, there’s the viability of the Jackson Estate.

This is a very unique situation, and I cannot blame victims who did not come forward when they had opportunities to do so.

I think Culkin was paid off too. He lives really well and had a rampant drug addiction. He retired at 14. I'm guessing he was paid & perhaps still is paid handsomely by Jackson's estate. As a fellow survivor of both physical and sexual childhood abuse, I feel for him. However, you are as sick as your secrets. It's cliche...but true. If he can't admit MJ abused him publicly, I hope he can admit it to himself. There's no way a sick pedo like Jackson could keep his hands off such a beautiful kid.

Culkin was worth millions.

He was but his family took a huge chunk & he still supports some of them. Drugs are expensive too. Anyway, Culkin was a drug addict, which he denied. He denied MJ molested him. He's obviously lying in both cases.

Jackson was a monster and should have been killed many years ago.

Dr. Conrad Murray is a true hero.

We think alike r194

[quote]it made over $800 million last year.

And it just became virtually worthless over the past 48 hours.

A lot of them seem to be from countries other than America...

I'm not so sure R196. There are still those rabid fans and others that simply don't care. Hopefully licensing and things like that tank. Unfortunately, he owns the rights to the Beatles catalogue. Maybe his estate will get desperate enough to sell it one day.

R197, I was thinking that. When he was alive his popularity dipped quite a bit in the US, but he was still huge overseas, like in Japan. I have a feeling overseas is where a lot of his rabid fans are.

Sony bought his share of the Beatles catalog for $750 million. The estate doesn't own it anymore. But they do have $750 million! Minus taxes.

That's great news, R199. I'm shocked they parted with it. It's now worth 1 billion. I can see the Jacksons running through the 750 million. They are still living off Michael through his mother. They have multiple wives and children, they can run through that money depending on how lavishly they live. When mama Jackson kicks off, they might be shit out of luck.

Taj noted in his interview that Michael owned the James Bond theme and just about all of Sony’s catalogues. His estate will never dwindle. He was the biggest star in the world. Hard fact, but a true one.

[quote]it made over $800 million last year.

Not saying it's not true, but I'd take any numbers quoted by Forbes with a ginormous grain of salt, many people are questioning the accuracy of that publication since the Chinese investment firm (Integrated Whale Media) took them over last year, also see: the Kylie Jenner lip kit billionaire.

In Michael's will, don't the three kids own the Michael Jackson Estate at a certain age. Katherine the mom along with lawyers are supposed to be keeping the estate money in trust for the three kids. Is Katherine allowed to support the other brothers, wives, their kids,Latoya and Rebbie with Michael's money?

[quote] Same, how do you talk to these people? They will straw man you with the racist card, they will pull out every excuse for this disgusting pedo. What can you say to them? I feel I must get some word in because I find it so repulsive to hear people defending him.

Well we all know that there are certainly no batshit crazy racist here at Datalounge. And the comments made about Jackson’s family certainly aren’t about race. Datalounge always has bitter nasty things to say about the entire family of anyone who commits a crime and anyone who is accused of a crime. Just look at the Chris Watts threads. Oh I guess that’s a bad example. Or maybe murdering your 2 little girls and your wife is a much less serious crime. Perhaps it’s a crime that Datalounge finds palatable. But yeah there’s certainly no racism to be found here. Dataloungers certainly don’t seem to virulently hate most any wealthy black person.

Maybe the racially equality found here and all of the name calling and nasty comments about innocent family members will help to change the minds of the non believers.

^Oh yes, there’s a nasty undercurrent of racism just permeating these Michael threads. It’s like a bunch of rabid pit bulls attacking a corpse, like they couldn’t wait for some shit like this to happen. What will really be telling is when proven perverts like Weinstein, Kevin Spacey and Bryan Singer have their days in court, if the rabid pummeling will commence then. I highly doubt it.

Rebbie, the eldest Jackson sibling, was married for over 40 years until her husband passed away several years ago and is the least show biz of any of them. I highly doubt she was living off of Michael’s fortune.

R204 & R205 need to come to terms with their implicit bias.

This 60 Minutes Australia episode aired last week that focused on interviews with Michael Jackson's maid. An entertainment reporter is also interviewed...sorry can't remember who name, but she believes Jackson did it. Tom Mesereau, Jackson's scumbag defense attorney, is also interviewed

R201, it’s not a hard or difficult fact, in my opinion.

I think both ideas of him being the biggest star in the world was definitely something he rightfully earned and deserved, because as I’ve expressed upthread, & in previous threads regarding MJ throughout the years, Michael was exceptionally talented and really damn good at what he did regarding that talent. Just as you expressed, he was the biggest star ever, and that didn’t happen by mistake. The Beatles and MJ, are two performers/ musicians, who did some fantastic work. MJ’s problematic relationships with children doesn’t change that specific part of his life.

I don’t have a problem with listening to his music, while believing wholeheartedly that he was a paedophile.

There are tons of amazing artists out there, who did some really fucked up shit, and I still love their music, their poetry, their books, their films, their acting abilities, etc.

I’m a consumer, and can still objectively look at the artists whose work I consume, while understanding that some of these people are or were people who I wouldn’t want to spend time with.

If I weren’t able to separate the art from the behavior of those who created something I love, I’d be left with very little to enjoy.

I am no one’s super-fan (though I come close to that with the Beatles, admittedly), however, what I am is a person who loves good music. I’m not going to prevent myself from enjoying good music, because music make life exponentially easier, and bearable when life gets hard.

So you are happy to fund criminal atrocities as long as your life is easier and more bearable.

Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Period. Anyone with eyes could see it, yet they were blinded by his celebrity. Not to mention most of his disgusting family are on his payroll (and still are!). I hope his legacy gets the remake it deserves, just as I hope it for Cosby, Weinstein, Spacey, etc. Maybe his music was fun to dance to, but you cannot excuse the lives ruined by his actions. He, and he alone, owns that.

R210, and R211: THE MAN IS DEAD!!! I’m not funding criminal atrocities by listening to his albums, which I’ve owned since childhood.

Here’s a real criminal atrocity: the iPad, iPhone, and Mac that I, and many of you here use regularly, was made by a poor, Chinese, factory worker, who eats pure slop for dinner, and sleeps on a thin, foam mattress at night.

R210, please fuck off and understand that we ALL do it. We buy shit that makes us happy, or makes life convenient for us, even when others aren’t happy, and severely inconvenienced.

[quote]I don’t have a problem with listening to his music, while believing wholeheartedly that he was a paedophile.

R209 Did your mother ever drop you on the head as a child? You seriously need to get your head examined. What you are saying means you have no conscience and are unable to tell the difference between doing the right thing, and doing the wrong thing. And your example of comparing pedophilia to the plight of factory workers is as asinine as it is ludicrous. Get a clue!

I am glad the freak is dead!!

I’m not, R214. I wish Michael Jackson had lived to see this movie made, to see Wade finally turn on him, to see pop stars like John Legend publicly rebuke him, to see the statute of limitations laws change so he could be imprisoned and denied the psychological comfort of all the drugs. As others have mentioned, no wonder he needed to get so fucked up just to get some sleep. I wonder if James Safechuck has had a few sleepless nights over what Jackson did to him? Fuck Michael Jackson. I wish he’d been sentenced to a lifetime of nightmares.

R215, he is suffering now in hell. Also, you’re naive if you think his rabid fans would allow him to be ruined. MJ lost his life young. Ha ha

But no one has boycotted Elvis for sleeping with a 14 year old and who know how many other young girls, or Ted Nugent for asking permission to marry a 15 year old girl from her parents just so that he could fuck her, or Jerry Lee Lewis, who married his 13 year old cousin.

MJ defenders frequently resort to whataboutism: iPads, Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein. Anything to not talk about MJ sleeping with little boys.

I’m going to become a stripper. I’m going to dress as a toddler and only dance to Michael Jackson’s music.

^Lol, do it! That’d be hilarious.

MJ bashers always resort to racism.

Wade is just like his mother - an untrustworthy LIAR.

R221, there are many, many posts in this thread from people who know he was a pedophile that don't talk about race. Nice try, though.

Back in the day, when this property was first acquired, the permanent A++ list celebrity who acquired it decided he was going to build an underground recording studio because he thought the sound would be completely different than a normal studio. Sounds kind of crafty to me and he never really struck me as someone who considered the whole thing a craft. Anyway, the hole was dug about 300-400 yards from the main house. The interior was built out, but the recording studio was never completed. It was basically just a 1,000 square foot unfinished basement all by itself.

About three weeks ago over dinner with his actress girlfriend, this former A+ list tween actor told her some of the stories he heard about what happened down in that recording studio. Our actor never went down there and when he asked about it, the permanent A++ lister said it wasn't a place for him, our actor to go. The things relayed to the girlfriend were so disturbing that she actually called the police to ask if they could investigate it. She is still waiting for a call back and doesn't know if anything is being done.

Michael Jackson/Macaulay Culkin

I'm not going to attack anyone who listens to Jackson's music, or says they still love it. Whatever floats your boat, just don't play "Pretty Young Thing" where I can hear it!

I'm going to save all of my righteous wrath for the idiots who go around denying that Jackson was a pedophile, or who seem to think that his celebrity and talent made him somehow above the law.

If Wade and the other one were black, 90% of DL wouldn’t give a shit.

r226 did you come over here from Lipstick Alley?

Elvis met and fucked Priscilla when she was 14 and probably fucked countless other young teen girls. Jerry Lee Lewis married his cousin at age 13 (but he claimed she was 15 to get around the whole age of consent stuff). Ted Nugent literally adopted a 17 year old girl at age 30 so he could have sex with her. Jerry Seinfeld who did a similar thing with a 16 year old girl. It seems there are a lot of guys in the entertainment business whose past should come back to haunt them but doesn't.....

^Let’s boycott all of them while we’re boycotting Michael Never Convicted Jackson.

Might want to look up hebephilia vs pedophilia. Also, parental permission for marriage to a minor.

r230 you beat me to it, MJ was a pedo, sexually abusing little boys is different than getting parental permission to marry a minor.

There are, no doubt, many pop stars who knowingly had sex with minors, but Jackson’s victims were very young, making his crimes significantly more shocking.

Jackson's victims were as young as SEVEN YEARS OLD! Barely old enough to read and write, probably only halfway to puberty!

Jackson was absolutely and utterly vile.

LOL at people justifying a 30 year old marrying his 13 year old cousin.

Most are members of the Jackson estate, or Sony mafia, or deluded mentally ill ugly girls....

People justifying JLL marrying his 13 YO cousin and Elvis fucking 14 YOs just to spite Michael Jackson, who was never charged with anything, is pretty fucking pathetic.

r236 what's pathetic is defending a pedophile.

Wade barely looked 5 years old when he first met Jackson. It breaks my heart in that first picture. Young and innocent with that ghoul breathing down his neck he was probably only weeks away from being molested.

R23 Thankfully it closed down. Mrs Patrick Campbell must think Micheal is innocent that scumbag.

the son of a bitch was rimming 9 yr olds, that we know about....how many others of god knows what age, was he fucking, the freak thought he was god and could do any thing.....and he did.

u want him sleepin with ur 8 yr old kid?

moms robson thought hey it was jus fine. she cried like a bitch when the pedo died. … her gravy train was OVER. at least moms safechuck cussed him out at the end and saw what a fuktard he was....

we love u james, ur kool as hell and will be fine.. follow ur heart... wade, be a good boy and give all ur $ to a pedo charity, be good to ur kids and show them rite from wrong.

r238 I believe Jackson started molesting Wade when he was 7, just 2 years after the first time they met.

This woman, Pearl Jr has delivered 100s of pro-Michael videos on youtube. Self righteous biddy, presents her case almost like she's delivering a sermon to worshipers. Seems like one of the most outspoken ones to have devoted whole life to MJ. The last of the blind follows are congregating in her comment section, and man are they bitter!

R242 That woman is off her rocker, anyone into that amount of celebrity worship is unstable. For some reason just because MJ produced popular music people think he can't be a pedo. I read a few replies and got out of there, what a bunch of crackpots.

[quote] Corey Feldman clarifies statement and admits he can no longer defend Michael Jackson amid horrendous molestation allegations in Leaving Neverland

Corey Feldman has been very open over the years about being a sexual abuse survivor and a friend of Michael Jackson when he was a young boy.

Now, just days after appearing to defend the king of pop on a string of tweets, the former child star has had a change of heart regarding the molestation allegations made against the King of Pop in the scathing documentary, Leaving Neverland.

'I can not in good consciousness defend anyone who’s being accused of such horrendous things,' the now 47-year old confessed about Jackson in an interview with CNN's Headline News.

'But at the same time, I'm also not here to judge him, because again, he did not do those things to me and that was not my experience.'

Initially, Feldman criticized the documentary, calling it 'one-sided' in a series of tweets on Monday, after the airing of the first part of the documentary.

Then, during Thursday's interview, he had a change of heart of sorts and shared that this has been 'a very emotional time for me, and this is a very emotional process for any survivor of abuse.'

-----------------

When you've lost Corey Feldman you've lost America.

Corey was mind fucked by Jacko, the same as all the other boys. The same hyperactive and desperate need to keep him pleased him even in death.

As someone said upthread licensing is where the money is and what company will now want its product associated with pedophilia? Jackson is no longer the king of pop but the king of perv. Disgraceful that the fans are concentrating their bile on Wade as he comes across as self assured, they daren't attack Safechuck as he is such an obviously broken victim. I hope Wade is as strong as he appears, it's disgusting the fans are trying to break him in order to save themselves from facing the truth about pathetic pedophile Jackson.

corey, mccaulkin, others, they wont ever admit to Jackson rimmin and suckin em,... too much of a blow to their masculinity, one need only look at them today to see the damage done.

just saw the part here mj flipped out over wade maybe havin underwear with blood and dna on it.

what more evidence is needed.

if I were in the Jackson family, ide crawl bak under a rock and not come out...but take all our LV luggage with u Katherine and sons.

I feel sorry for wade's dad, losing his mind and finally his life over possible guilt over his wife selling their son to that bastard pedo.

Let us come together and find common ground. Can't we simply say, regarding MJ's relationship with boys that "mistakes were made?" Let us have healing, let us have closure.

In other words, r249, let's sweep this unfortunate news under the rug? No, thank you. If there's any justice in this world, the fallout has only begun. Fuck that child-molesting freak and his legacy.

I'm black and have no problem acknowledging that Michael Jackson was a pedophile. I think the evidence pretty clearly speaks for itself and cannot be denied by anyone willing to see the truth for what it was. However, having said that, I cannot really get on the Michael Jackson outrage train. In one of the Chris Watts threads on this very board, someone asks the following question:

[quote]Can someone explain why he (Watts) has "fans" on this site or why he is considered "hot?"

I'll tell you why: Because he's white and this board is dominated by gay white males, many of whom do not give a shit that this guy murdered his wife and daughters because he's "hot." And these are the very same people who have been moralizing for the past two weeks in 35 different Michael Jackson threads about why can't "the blacks" stop defending MJ and that "the blacks" need to wake up and admit that MJ was a pedophile. Well, how's this for two separate but equal truths: MJ *was* a fucking pedophile and Chris Watts *is* a fucking murderer, so how does your obsession with lusting after and defending that piece of shit any better than "the blacks"? What's the difference? And let's not forget that these are also the same people who talk about MJ's victims being shamed by his defenders while accusing Shannan Watts of having been a "controlling bitch from hell" (their words) who got what she deserved.

And please spare me the bullshit that these people are just "trolls" because this has always been the pattern on DL: no matter how bad the behavior of a white person, a black person doing the exact same thing is made out to be 1,000 times worse, hence the (selective) outrage about those casting doubt on the words of Safechuck and Robson (which I agree is wrong), yet Kevin Spacey's defenders on this board were gleefully attacking Anthony Rapp for daring to blow the whistle on Miss Spacey's sexual predatory activities. And while there is certainly no love on this board for Bryan Singer, I've yet to see him undergo the moral thrashing across multitudes of threads like Michael Jackson, despite the fact his crimes are unquestionably equal to Jackson's or possibly even worse. (With one or two exceptions, most of the threads on Singer tend to die off after a few posts.) And Woody Allen is basically ignored, with only the occasional thread that would be lucky to see 30 replies.

So the next time any of you feel the need to lecture "the blacks" about Michael Jackson, I suggest you think of your own hypocrisy and direct that sermon to "the whites" instead. The unwillingness to face the truth about our artistic heroes isn't a failing unique to only one group of people. It cuts across all racial lines.

R251, I won’t pretend this explains everything, but Michael Jackson is a much bigger cultural icon than guys like Singer or Allen or Spacey. It’s not even close. He’s someone who will be argued and written about forever. He had more talent, more fame, more money, and a weird self-mythologizing self-awareness. This is someone who commissioned kitschy, disturbing images of himself with children. He ripped his own body in a horrifying way—what performance artist ever went further? If the US is the land of the strange, well, who is stranger than Michael Jackson? He deserves all of his threads here.

Now, Chris Watts, I think his fans know they are pathetic. At least I need to believe that.

R251, I can only speak for myself, but I've posted outrage at Spacey, Singer, Weinstein and Bruce Weber. I've argued with posters that have defended them. I wouldn't say that this board overly support any of these people. I think it's a small percentage who come on and say stupid things like 'he's a model, what did he expect." Woody Allen, I really don't know what is true in that case and he doesn't hold a lot of significance to me personally. That said, what Michael is accused of doing is about 1000% worse than any of the people you mentioned. I'm not going to go into Chris Watts because it's not really comparable to celebrity that many of us have grown up with.

omg, pedo jacko goes to head of class in the pervy dept......he ate 7 yr old ass holes!!!! doubt the others did even that.

git real mary

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I believe he was one. I just don't see what there is to do about it now. Dig him up and put his corpse on trial?

R256, on that same logic, why does anything reported after someone dies? No one had any idea JFK Jr.'s marriage was in ruins or Rock Hudson was gay/died of AIDS, that River Phoenix was a drug addict and countless other stories that broke after a famous person died. For fuck's sake, Carolyn Bessette was accused of being a coke addict and cheat in countless books and tv shows. Nothing being done to Michael hasn't been done to countless other celebrities. He just has more skeletons in the closet than anyone else. He deserves to be shamed in death since these boys never got justice when he was alive.

all that shit is paid for by the Jackson Estate.....they know theyr on a sinking ship and are freaking out....they in panic mode.

[quote]It really doesn't bother me. Years ago, I wasn't so sure. At this point it doesn't matter anyway, children are safe, he can't hurt them.

I ain't afraid of no ghost. Or Nell Carter.

the guilt the jacksons must carry, specially his bros who traveled with him, knowing all the evil shit he did, are they all on propaphyl?

Innocent or guilty, Robson and Safechuck are liars either way. There's no scenario where they told the truth both times. Anyone who willingly believes a liar is a damn fool.

You are the fool, R261. How many times did they repeat why they initially lied? Are you so thick that you can't understand how they were manipulated from a young age? They were puppets and Michael was the one who pulled their strings. In the case of Safechuck, he was a child when he last defended Michael. You won't cut them slack, but you will Michael. Do you believe Michael when he says he never touched boys? That those kids are his biological children? That he hasn't bleached himself to a ghost like complexion? That he hasn't gotten extensive plastic surgery? If you believe he told the truth in those instances, than there is a bridge I'd like to sell you.

How old was Blankie when his pedo father died? Do you think he was also molested?

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Way to project your own gullibility onto me, R262. You would seriously believe someone crying rape when they had consensual sex with Britney Spears?

o brother, the Jackson estate trolls are out tonite…...what fools are ye. defending a man who messes with the asses of 7 yr olds!

R266, pedophile defenders is what they are.

Holy shit, you really are thick, R262/R265. Too stupid to even respond to, but I will so it can go completely over your head. What does Wade having an affair with Britney Spears have to do with whether he is telling the truth or not about being molested as a child? You go on about Wade, Wade, Wade, what about Jimmy, Jordan and Gavin? What about what the maids, cooks and drivers testified to? What about what his own sister said about numerous payoffs? What about what his cleaner, Anthony Pellicano intimated? What about the naked pictures of boys that were found in Michael's room, including one of Jonathan Spence? There is tons of evidence against him. You haven't said one thing of substance to dispute anything I've said.

Is there any evidence that Jackson ever had sex with an adult male or female? Did he essentially die a virgin or did he penetrate any of these boys? I want to believe he kept his proclivities to sucking and rimming, not that any of it wouldn't damage the boys. I just hope they weren't sodomized.

The MJ community forum has become a shitshow. There has not been any other discourse allowed on that site besides "Michael is the perpetual victim, always" type of messages. One poster was even banned for referring to him as "Jacko" that's how trigger happy they have become. Some long term fans are losing their sympathy and tired of having to defend him constantly.

Blacks will defend the indefensible.

Agreed OP. There is so much evidence. So many witnesses. So many stories. It's just overwhelming. Madonna knew. LaToya knew. The whole Jackson family knew and covered it up. The parents knew. The industry knew. Minnelli and Taylor knew. The staff knew. The doctors knew. Everybody knew.

Anyone who claims Jackson wasn't a decades long repeat offender predator pedophile is lying, delusional and an horrific person. The only thing they have is to go after the victims and there is plenty of evidence of that in this thread.

I saw on the news the other day that radio worldwide had a turn off Michael Jackson day where they wouldn't play any of his music. When I am driving, if one of his songs comes on the radio I change the station.

Even before the Neverland documentary I very rarely heard any of Jackson's old songs on the radio. Looking in my mp3 folder I see the only MJ music I ever saved was Beat It and Billy Jean.

Variety says there is already a decline in download of his music/vids since the movie.

GOOD

R242 Holy shit! That is definitely an eye opening video. The part about Wade and James sweating excessively was stupid, but she actually produced some interesting evidence. Apparently, Safechuck was being sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and in 2013? Perhaps the DLer who knows Safechuck can chime in and tell us what the fuck that's about. Also Wade's wife, Amanda claimed on their fundraising page that she, herself, was a victim of childhood sexual abuse and then retract it after the airing of the documentary in which she claims not to know anything about it.

R274, sales of his albums have actually risen since the documentary was aired.

R276 I didn't think it was a coincidence that I heard several of his songs being played on the radio today.

I have Sirius and they were playing several of his songs on different stations.

baloney, Variety says otherwise, more Jackson bot lies

media outlets owned by Sony will probably play his shit...

Some of you Jackson haters sound just as bad as his most vociferous defenders.

[quote]sales of his albums have actually risen since the documentary was aired.

God, I've had the opposite reaction. There were a couple of songs that I loved growing up and I can't even take listening to his music at all anymore knowing the details of what he did to those poor kids.

Decline. The link that said there was an increase no longer works.

Don't be mad at the defenders. its Sony and the estate that are panicky to keep his music selling, at any cost.

common sense. no one wants the work of a man who srews 9 yr old boys....

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[quote]raises £14,000

What, these idiots couldn't spend their money on magic beans? Or a bridge?

R242 Didn't realize she was the same person who claimed MJ faked his own death. She's clearly a nutter. However, I'm still interested in the details of that Safechuck lawsuit.

Apparently sales have both risen and fallen...

"Jackson’s combined album and song sales -- including his work with the Jackson 5 and The Jacksons -- dipped 4 percent in the shadow of the Neverland premiere. His combined sales on March 3-5 totaled nearly 8,000, down from the little over 8,000 on the previous Saturday, Sunday and Monday (Feb. 24-26)."

"Despite the music ban, Michael did see his music re-enter the charts, with his Number Ones album climbing around 44 places in just a few hours on Friday. His studio albums, Bad and Thriller, have also burst into the top 200, according to the Evening Standard."

This is the Michael I mainly remember

the ones with truth should put up posters all over the world with the above pix of the monster.

^yea, should be a crowd funding for THAT

The pic with the band aid nose, we need that on billboards all up and down sunset blvd....with the names of the boys he abused.

Yes good R274. People are rightly horrified.

"Some of you [bold]PAEDOPHILE[/bold] haters sound just as bad as his most vociferous defenders."

Fixed it for ya R281!

Michael liked to be seen as Peter Pan but this character was more him...

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I would imagine young children would have nightmares just from looking at his mutilated freak face.

I would be delighted to bash Elvis, R279, if anyone ever discussed him.

And really, why doesn't some documentary filmmaker do an expose on Hugh Hefner? Plenty of dirt there, all the whore and prostitution and young women turned into porn stars, plus the mainstream would be totally shocked by his bisexuality.

Put TI and Monique under a bus. I'm a biracial Canadian and I don't understand the loyalty that some African Americans have to this vile POS.

I'm very much an adult, R298, and I'm having nightmares of MJ being a top into tit play.