Lee Radziwill is dead to me!

Obituaries now up at Vogue and WWD.

WWD says it was unexpected and that she seemed in relatively good health recently.

Death is not unexpected when you're 85.

She was a life longer smoker too!

Take THAT, anti-smoking troll!

A horrible woman with incredible taste..

Did she have any female friends at all? Or any friends left? Did her daughter ever talk to her?

At least she got to fuck Peter Beard when he was young and hot.

Didn’t she smoke about a million cigarettes?

Cue the Julia Roberts/Princess Diana premiere story.

Would anybody even attend a funeral? No one seems to have liked her except maybe for Caroline.

"Radziwill had been an actress,..."

- Vogue, 2/16/2019

And I'm the Queen of Romania.

Don't speak ill of the dead, unless they were nicotine whores.

All snark aside, if I think it through, Radziwill, in one aspect, was more interesting than Jackie O. That is, I wonder what is was like for to see through her eyes and react to Jackie's life and her choices that directly affected Ms. Radziwill.

Was she a nice person? Or a nasty person? Tell us Datalounge.

R12 She was Margaret to Jackie's Elizabeth.

I'm sure Carole will milk this for all it's worth.

R13, when commenting on a war of words between Truman Capote and Gore Vidal, she said "Oh, who cares. They're just a couple of fags."

There's your answer.

Fabulous, r16. That bitch is smoking Virginia Slims in hell.

If there had been no Jackie, there would have been no Lee. She was only well known because of her sister.

I was absolutely sure OP was trolling when this first posted, but no! Thanks for posting OP, we hardly ever get the news before the outlets do anymore.

She was a very nice woman. Much more stylish fashion wise.

R16 that was hilarious when Lee said that!! She was being funny and was not a mean person.

At least she got to see Carole run the NYC Marathon before she died.

The "fags" story seems to have been based on hearsay from Truman Capote, which makes it entirely unreliable.

R23 and that makes it even funnier.

Referring To Two Arguably Nasty Men As Fags Hardly Makes Her A Terrible Person. i Know Nothing Of Her, But This Is my Two Cents.

No, it was Liz Smith to whom she said it. Liz was trying to convince Lee to come to Truman's defense in the feud with Vidal, when doing so would have saved Truman's ass (she had some kind of exculpatory knowledge). That quote was Lee's response. Liz quoted her everywhere, for years, and never spoke to her again.

Truman tried for years to make her 'happen' but no one was interested. He had this Svengali problem, trying to promote Nobodies into Somebodies. When he'd fail they'd drop him.

R21, try developing a little self-esteem.

Now she'll never know how the Jussie Smollett story turns out.

She was unforgettable in the Gene Tierney role in a 1968 TV version of "Laura," co-starring Robert Stack, George Sanders (reprising Addison DeWitt, as Waldo Lydecker) and DL icon Arlene Francis.

Really unforgettable.

R28 try getting a sense of humour and lighten up

Brav-O to OP!!!! We need a special award for this type of behavior, we want to encourage it. OP, hugs and hugs and hugs and a good pinch too!

Jackie, who had more millions at the end than she had at the, say, post-1963 re-start of her life, cut sister Lee out of her will saying she had provided for her generously during her lifetime. But she left $500,000 to each of Lee's kids.

Saw her on the street in NY once in the 90s, with Herbert Ross. She was tiny and birdlike, with sunglasses and a big poof of cotton-candy hair. That's all I got.

She was only 85? It seems like she has been around forever.

She kicked the bucket.

Where's the Herbert Ross troll?

There's a Herbert Ross troll? Evidently she treated him like shit.

[quote]Now she'll never know how the Jussie Smollett story turns out.

Who cares? He's just another fag.

[quote] At least she got to fuck Peter Beard when he was young and hot.

Peter Beard was such a hottie back then!

No online obits yet at either the NY Times or WAPO.

What do I pay them for? Those should be on auto-send.

WWD has one up.

TMZ has broken it and it when it comes to deaths, they can be counted on.

I always love and appreciate the Lee Radziwill threads on DL. Always fun discussing her.

She died yesterday, I wonder why they waited a whole day to make her death public. Was it Carolines doing? I bet she has full control of this situation right now.

Cunt.

No one will call her the People’s Princess.

I remember her being a non-presence, r30.

She has a daughter, who I assume is taking charge now. Her son died of cancer a few weeks after JFK jr.

JFK Jr Did Not Die Of Cancer, r48.

Laura is a role few actresses could pull off. And certainly, she was a train wreck. And I remember they really built her up beforehand. Which made her non-presence with a camera even worse. Haunting and alluring she was not!

Sister Act - photos of Lee and Jackie.

Peter Straub wrote about beauty and charisma that failed to translate to film. I always picture Lee when I think about that character.

She was really into the cluttered rooms with busy floral wallpaper. And for whatever reason I'm sad she's gone. End of an era I guess. Her son seemed decent so she can't be all bad.

NYT doesn't even have it....we're THAT good!!!!

She was a cunt but she was our cunt. She definitely achieved the status of DL ubercunt/icon. Jackie O might have won the battle but Ms Lee won the war!

My cousin’s friend says Lee slipped off a squatty potty. Took a header.

What an undignified way to go.

The NY Post finally has something.

Poor Lee had always been a spoiled aimless drifter, changing careers, men, continents, etc., whenever she got bored and needed excitement. She tried her hand at modeling, fashion, acting, producing, writing, etc., but never fully established herself in any field, except being Jackie's kid sister and Mick and Truman and Rudy's hanger-on. And judging by her relationship with her daughter Tina, who supposedly preferred the company of Auntie Jackie, she apparently didn't quite cut it as a mother.

^ ouch

Why did she marry Stan? Was he so wealthy? I thought he was just about broke at the end. He'd been married twice before and was almost 20 years older. No wonder the Kennedys had a fit. He died two years after they divorced, at age 62.

Carole Radziwill will drag this out for her own publicity. Does she call herself a princess as well?

Yes, Carole calls herself a princess. Pretty funny. She’s such a shallow grasper

She married Stas for the title and because he was heterosexual, unlike Michael Canfield. I'm sure she also thought there was money....but there wasn't.

R49 read it again Lee’s son died of cancer a few weeks after JFK jr. died.

Jackie was lucky. She died before developing MFF (major fish face).

i Did Reread It, The Syntax Is Poor

Oh yeah. The bitch is back.

Wrong R27. Lee Radziwill was the beautiful sister of arguably the most popular 1st lady of the 20th century & Sil to a slain president. She didn't need him to make her happen and she certainly didn't need Capote for entree into any level of fame. She met heads of state through her sister and the Kennedys, as well as the wealthiest and most powerful movers and shakers of that era. Capote couldn't top that let alone match it. If anything, he benefited from his association with her.

From everything I've read they were genuinely close for many years because they were very much alike: Both users, both social climbing narcissists and both deeply insecure.

R67, you really need a mirror. Or should I say, You Really Need A Mirror.

When Lee confirmed the rumor she had fucked JFK and accused Jackie of stealing Onassis from her. That was finito for the "loving sisters act".

In that documentary called Last Summer or something like that - Lee is with Peter Beard at the Hamptons and interacting a lot with Big Edie and Little Edie at Grey Gardens, and she really comes across as a very nice person and a good mother.

I know! I was shocked myself.....I have - in a way - changed my way of thinking about her.

Hmmm... didn’t Jackie also date Peter Beard? These sisters really messed around with each other’s lovers.

^ oops that was Pete Hamill, not Peter Beard.

Lee was correct in calling alcoholic Capote and Vidal fags. Two very pathetic examples of hanger ons to the social set. Especially Truman Capote.

Aw, I'm sad to hear this. I went through a phase a few years ago where I read obsessively about the Kennedy family, and I found Lee strangely fascinating. She seemed more like a decadent soap opera villainess than a real person. She wanted fame, but she was born in the wrong era - nowadays, the general public would find Lee much more interesting than Jackie. It's weird not having anyone to discuss this with IRL, because none of my friends or family have any idea who she was.

RIP, Princess Radziwill.

R14, and she was Roz Kind to Jackie's Babs Streisand!

Jackie and Lee's step-brothers Yusha and Tommy Auchincloss were half brothers to Gore Vidal.

FWIW!

Did Lee still have that lovely pied-a-terre in Paris? The NYT magazine section did a big story on her a few years back.

Lee did JFK?

And Jackie did RFK?

Too much!

I’m sure everyone tried rfk

R79 I’m not sure if it ever sold, but she had her Paris apartment listed for sale a couple of years ago.

[quote]and she was Roz Kind to Jackie's Babs Streisand!

But was she Lorna Luft to Jackie's Liza?

I would do almost anything to own that Paris apartment.

Thanks for the link R82. So much to see there!

Love that apartment.

[quote]She was a very nice woman.

She was the bitch cunt from hell.

Yes, it’s gorgeous R84. Some of the furniture and art in the apartment had been hers for decades. It’s interesting to look at how she moved things around and reused them over the years.

Tasteful Friends— here is a blog post showing some of the interiors of Lee’s other houses. It’s pretty thorough and in depth.

“It’s a natural end of a marvelous life. She had everything a woman can desire…beauty, intelligence, style, fame.…I am sure she had moments of happiness, too,” said Valentino Garavani.

Deeelicious.

She was the pretty sister

If Jackie was Elvis then Lee was Elvis’ twin.

Valentino didn’t care for Lee, eh?

I went thru a phase to read everything Jackie, Lee, Ari, Eugenia, that opera singer etc. That was when society was fun.

Lee was the Joan Fontaine to Jackie's Olivia de Haviland.

Uhhh r92, do you mean Maria Callas? Jesus fucking Christ.

Does anyone remember what she did to Herb Ross? NOT the Steel Magnolias episode. Was she just shitty to him in general?

Lee's former husband, the legendary director Herbert Ross (d. 2001) changed his Will on his deathbed because he didn't his money/real estate to end up Lee's grubby little hands upon his death.

That must have seriously pissed her off. Good for him.

I think Jackie was far more beautiful than Lee. Their stories fascinate me. The imagery of their lives is so stunning. Gorgeous homes, fabulous clothes, interesting people, travel, and more. They were not always happy, of course, they still had a chance to experience so much, including love and children.

I would hope that I would do more with my good fortune than Lee, not sure what kind of good works she did, but by being a big spender on homes, clothes, art, and furniture and having writer friends, you could say she was a supporter of artistic endeavors.

As an elder the things of come to appreciate best are art and beauty. I love to be surrounded by it. Gardens and nature, too. I've learned you can have it without being rich. Thrift stores and estate sales do it for me.

I've enjoyed the photos posted in this thread, especially the sisters as debutantes. Simply stunning. I can only dream, but it's always fun to dream.

Blah blah blah r98.

What you love is opulence; decadence, luxury, unearned wealth, snobbery, and capatalism. You see the pretty dresses and large houses and you think "They have it!". Yes, r98, they have money, and that is their legacy. Anything else that comes along with it is a production, a façade which comes from bourgeois lifestyle.

Today the bourgeois pretention of the Kennedy and Radziwill is frowned upon. Thank God your generation who for some reason clings to these ideas - for reasons of nostalgia I guess - will be dead soon, and with you will die this glorification of shallow vapidness.

[quote]Today the bourgeois pretention of the Kennedy and Radziwill is frowned upon.

It’s been going on forever and will continue to do so - just ask Cher.

R95 I’ve started rereading her biography by Diana Dubois. When I get to the part on Herb, I’ll come back with any update.

The New York Times finally got their act together and published their obituary on Lee. In it, they describe Carole Radziwill as an actress! What a snub! I’m sure Carole would much prefer to be called Emmy-winning journalist and author. I’ll be interested to see if they correct it.

Today we have Trump, Roger Stone and the Kardashian trash. Let that sink in.

Sadly R99 that will leave us with just the Kardashians.

Thanks to posters for the links!

R102 Jinx!

R99, you're a fool if you think shallow vapidness will ever die.

Somehow, I doubt that Caroline Kennedy was close to her Aunt Lee.

So Lee was married to Herb Ross, and Jackie had a Jewish companion, and Caroline has a Jewish husband.

Jesus, r99, could you be a bigger shit?

and thanks, r95.

and what's your point, r107. As if I didn't know.

R84, it is so gorgeous! Too much pink, though.

It is huge! If I ever had a pied-a-terre in Paris, I might want it to be cozier.

Lee with DL fave CBK.

Link to NYT magazine section article on Lee's Paris digs. (Archived article.)

Even more pink!

Wow, she looks so much like Jackie in her dotage in that picture, right before the cancer caught up to ah!

Lee is just as pretty as Jackie.

Page Six item from 2017 on Lee.

Nice photo from R111's link.

More great photos of La Lee.

r115 The fact she posed with a cigarette so recently says EVERYTHING about her. No respect to the victims of smoking. We don't need people thinking that smoking doesn't cause premature death and that she wasn't just an outlier.

R115, a very handsome woman indeed, but WTH is wrong with her mouth?

Looks like Lee had the unfortunate wart or mole on the side of her nose removed in later years.

Sorry, no before/after pix, but feel free to google.

She developed duck lips later in life--bad facelift?

In her youth and well into middle age I thought she was beautiful.

R117, interesting point.

She is not necessarily giving a middle finger to those with lung cancer/COPD.....

Perhaps, she thinks a cigarette in one's hand is genuinely elegant looking.....she is from an older generation, after all.

She was a Roman Catholic, wasn't she?

Tried to watch the “Lee and Jackie” doc on Netflix and it sucked donkey balls. It was all about Jackie!

[quote] I am sure she had moments of happiness, too,” said Valentino.

I’m wondering if this is cattiness or just a simple acknowledgement from a different time and place where people didn’t feel the need to feign perpetually elation.

I think it's really elegant cattiness.

I want to know how well she spoke French!

I think it was just an acknowledgment of all of the losses she suffered in her life, first and foremost being her son. That is tragic for anyone.

^^ I've lost TWO husbands and TWO sons!

I think she and Jackie were both fluent.

Video of Lee.

Old video of Lee speaking a bit of French.

Check Youtube for other vids of an older Lee talking.

Yeah, smoking destroyed her voice.

Amazing that she outlived her big sis by almost 25 years.

Love Capote's response to the "fag" comment:

"Truman Capote is hurt.

He is hurt because he has been betrayed. Betrayed by his best, closest, dearest and most loyal friend of 20 years, Lee Radziwill.

You see, Truman Capote and Gore Vidal, two of America's most illustrious writers, have been engaged in a fierce and vicious lawsuit for the past four years. Gore ("Kalki") Vidal sued Truman ("In Cold Blood") Capote for $1 million when Capote told Playgirl magazine that Vidal had been thrown out of the White House after behaving very badly one night at a party Jack and Jackie Kennedy gave for Lee and Stash Radziwill.

Truman Capote contends that Lee Radziwill told him the story.

He also says that Radziwill promised to sign a deposition for him saying so. But then she backed off. And then she signed a deposition for Gore Vidal whom she reportedly detests and has recently called the "most sinister man I know."

But it gets worse.

According to Capote, she then told a New York columnist who asked her to explain the about-face, "Well, you know what they are. They're just a couple of fags and this is just a fight between two fags. I think it's disgusting that we have to be dragged into it."

"There she goes using the Royal We, again," says Capote. "Next she'll start talking in the third person . . . "The Princess feels, The Princess declines . . .'"

It's the fag thing that really got to capote.

"If the lovely, divine and sensitive Princess Radziwill has such a low opinion of homosexuals," hisses Capote, "then why did she have me for a confidant for the last 20 years . . . ?

"I would say," says Capote, "that from 70 to 80 percent of Lee's friends and Jackie's friends are homosexual." He grins mischievously. "When Nureyev hears that, I dare say he'll not be amused.""

Right; the columnist was Liz Smith, who never spoke to Lee again (she said).

Why did R114 post a picture of Michael Lucas in drag?

"That classy lady that no one knows where she's the princess of."

R137, yeah, she had a sweat ball that just wouldn't drip off of her chin!

Nothing greater than an old fashioned thread about two high class prostitutes to make the Data Loungers forget Trump (except one desperate bitch).

R110, holy hell someone get CBK some concealer! I’ve never seen her look that strung out in a society paper pic.

Too late, sweetie.

R140, I love you guys.

Has Caroline commented yet?

Or Susan Dey?

Maybe the funeral will just be filled with those horrible housewives and their camera crews and their plastic surgery and faux high society attitude.

Virginia Slim

I think she's tremendous.

I wouldn't want to be her, elegant though she was.

She was a very shallow person.

Caroline will make sure the funeral is well attended, but it will be pretty small, since Lee outlived many of her contemporaries. Lee was a very self-involved person. She was a shit parent and her kids spent a lot of time with John and Caroline. John and Tony Radziwill were very close, and John was devastated when Tony was diagnosed with cancer. As a person, Lee was pretty useless. In spite of the times in which they lived, at least Jackie used the celebrity she had from marrying well, to assert her own identity and independence, as an editor at Doubleday, the authors she worked with had nothing but wonderful things to say about her. She remained a vital part of American life. As her sister Lee had access and opportunity and she pissed it away deciding that being a mannequin and being the appendage of famous, accomplished men was as good as it gets. I know. She tried various things, but always in a superficial way, never wanting to learn or grow. She wanted the celebrity, but she never wanted to do the work. She was intellectually lazy, superficial in a very determined way, and small. Not self aware. She was not a woman of substance.

Jackie was actually an egghead. She was born of a time when women were expected to marry well and bring money into the family. She did just that. But those that knew her spoke often of her intellect and her great knowledge of history and art. She was really an extraordinary woman intellectually

The frosty bitch loved uncut sizemeat and HATED RUBBERS!!!

Didn't Jackie cut her out of her will? Something about taking care of her while she was alive? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Friends and relatives of the Beales, but not really.

she lived nearly 25 years longer than her sister. That's a long time.

The only thing remarkable about her and Jackie is how two such homely gold digging slags were able to put the wool over the eyes of all of the influential men who seemed entranced by them.

Looked up Peter Beard. Only married to Cheryl Tiegs 1981 - 1983. Must not have been the marrying kind? Anyway, back to discussing the late Lee Radziwill.

Peter Beard was married to Minnie Cushing in the '60s and is married to someone else now. And that's just off the top of my head. So yes, he was the marrying kind.

Yes, Jackie did that, cut her out of the will and stated in the will, "For reasons known to her..."

Lee always left ashtrays filled to the brim in case jackieonassistance needed shorts

I just imagine her dialing the telephone with a pencil.

We never hear about Lee's daughter, Anna Christina, "Tina" the way we occasionally heard about her brother Anthony. We only hear about Lee's daughter-in-law, fame whore Real Housewife, Carole.

The cousins grew up together, Tina, Anthony, Caroline and John Kennedy. Anthony and John were best friends, and Anthony was John's best man at this wedding. I wonder if Tina and Caroline remained close as well especially now that they are the only two left?

The Princess Lee Radziwiłł, effortlessly chic.

Lee and Little Edie.

I don't understand why people hate carole so much, she's a cool chick. It must be jealousy. Because what else could it be?

That's her at her best, r162

Unfortunately, r164, Carole is the first to tell us (and then repeat ad nauseam, that she's a cool chick. She's really kind of a jerk.

OP, please refer to me as Princess Radziwill.

Here's the NYT interview in which Lee discussed Herbert Ross, her third husband:

[quote] "Oh no, do we have to talk about that? O.K., he was certainly different from anybody else I’d been involved with, and the film world sounded exciting. Well, it wasn’t. I hated Hollywood, and the provincialism of the industry. . . . Herbert had been married to the ballerina Nora Kaye until she died, and unbeknownst to me was still obsessed by her. It was ‘Nora said this, Nora did it like that, Nora liked brown and orange.’ . . . If anybody even breathed her name, Herbert would burst into tears. I had to clench my fists every time and was deeply hurt as I thought I had created a wonderful life for him. Thank God we never really settled in Los Angeles. My New York was difficult for Herbert, so we parted. . . ."

Her first husband, Michael Canfield, was rumoured to be the illegitimate son of Prince George, Duke of Kent and the American socialite Kiki Preston.

We need a Favorite / Yorgos Lanthimos take on Jackie and Lee. Lets not wait 250 years to do it.

Thanks for posting that, r168

R168. Thank you. Fascinating. One of my favorite passages from the story:

"In a world of passing celebrity, Lee Radziwill, 79, possesses a timeless aura that radiates nowness. Her bang up-to-date personal style, her laid-back — to say pared down would be to demean its ordered luxury — apartment in Paris (“the favorite of any home I’ve ever had”), in this, her favored city, shows how subtly she has lived, lives now, without the attendant glare of past pomp and present self-glorification that others crave. She is utterly content, and it shows. What she is not is casual."

The doorman opens the taxi door. “Bonsoir, Princesse.” We go inside.

“Madame!”

“Madame la Princesse!”

“Princesse Radziwill, je suis ravi de vous voir!”

(I am delighted to see you!)

And besides, I had met Stas . . . Stas was divorcing at the time, and we fell in love and eventually we married. . . . Those were glorious years. Being married to Stas was certainly the happiest part of my life, so he must have been the love of my life: there were other infatuations, other loves even, but never the joy or knowledge of life and living that I experienced with Stas,

Jack and my sister would come over, staying in Buckingham Place rather than the embassy, and I’d be included in all the great events, dinners at Buckingham Palace, you know. And the trip to India. The best part of that was meeting Nehru, he was seductive, mentally rather than physically, not unlike Berenson, and so beautiful, and with the most exquisite soft golden skin. We stayed in his house and he showed us to our rooms every night, showing us the books we should read, which made one feel completely at home.

“Stas and I went to Washington often . . . and then. . . .” Her voice trails off as she stares into the sun, perhaps considering the end of her marriage to Stas. “More coffee? Well, there was Jack’s death and . . . and . . . Ari. Listen, I think the world knows more about all that than I do. He was dynamic, irrational, cruel I suppose, but fascinating. He also had the most beautiful skin, and smelled wonderful. Naturally, I mean. Fascinating . . . as my sister discovered!”

When you look at pictures of Jackie and Lee in the early to mid 1960s with the shellacked bouffants, heavy makeup, Chanel suits and shift dresses, they look twice their age and matronly. However, in the 1970s, with their relaxed tresses and looser, relaxed wardrobe, they look younger and effortlessly glamorous. I much prefer these styles than the severely done-up 60s look.

1960s Jackie and Lee.

I'm what's left of Camelot now.

There's also Jean and Joan, R177. Not that anyone particularly cares about either of them.

R126 Pas très bien.

Is Joan still alive?

More or less, R180. I think she's in very bad health.

Lee saw a lot of shit in her lifetime. The kind of stuff the public will never know about. So many secrets are dying with her. She had a front row seat to a lot of history, especially the second half of the 20th century.

Agreed, r182.

Lee Radziwill - hate her, love her, admire her, dislike her, ignore her, or be indifferent her; there is no denying what you wrote.

R178, Joan was known as "the dish" to her brothers-in-law.

She was once more beautiful than Jackie.

R175, agreed. And I love the small boobed look that was in style in the 70s.

R175, the most rocking photo of Jackie O!

*sigh*

Even a thread about MY DEATH gets taken over by Jackie.

R187, sorry Lee.

You are Georganne LaPierre to Jackie's Cher!

Lee resembled Janet Lee, the mom. Jackie resembled their dad, Black Jack Bouvier.

More pix of Lee and Jackie and their parents.

Lee, you are Ashlee to Jackie's Jessica Simpson!

You are Haley to her Hillary Duff!

You are Solange to her Beyonce!

Deal with it, Babe.

Her honesty about the awful marriage with Herbert Ross is touching. It shows that even with the world at your feet you can make miserable choices.

I hope they find something when they go through her stuff, and it gets printed. Maybe she will divulge secrets after her death.

Black Jack Bouvier was so handsome...no wonder women fell at his feet.

Well maybe they did fall at his feet, but chronic alcoholism causes impotence so he sure wasn't fucking them.

She was Joan Fontaine to Jackie's Me.

She was Samantha to Jackie's Sparkle.

She was Andrea to Jackie's Dee Dee Halls.

R188 ahhhhh the original Heather Webber!

She was Mary Kate to Jackie's Ashley!

Lee was Pippa to Jackie's Kate Middleton!

Lee was Lorna to Jackie's Liza!

She was Grace to Jackie's Mamie.

I wonder why she sold the Paris pied-a-terre.

Money.

R205, or maybe was she ill?

Je ne sais pas!

R203, good one, Meryl!

Lee was Blanche Hudson to Jackie's Jane Hudson

Lee was Angela to Jackie' s Sophia Petrillo!

She was Jamie Lynn to Jackie's Britney.

She was Arsinoe to Cleopatra

Okay, please stop with the comparisons. It's been run into the fucking ground.

Well, I was Daddy's favorite!

She was Lee to Jackie. That sums it up way better than any analogy.

If you haven’t clicked on the interior designer’s link that shows the color-restored pictures of Lee’s London pad (along with never before seen photos of some of her other homes) you are sorely missing out. That was in my top three blog posts of all time, no kidding, it was outstanding!!

Which link was that R215? Can you post it again?

How on earth did she stay so skinny?

^ She was Virginia SLIM

I only saw her death mentioned on one national. news program -- I think it was NBC. She would have been furious.

Was there a lot of media coverage when jackie passed? I wouldn't know, I was only 6 when she died.

Yes, but it wasn't unexpected as she had been sick for a while. JFK Jr.'s death probably had more coverage than hers: it was a stop the press, out of the blue mega-story.

R221 Thanks.

Hands down one of the best stories I've read here; includes DL faves Princess Diana and Julia Roberts. It was posted in the original legendary Herbert Ross thread:

[quote]Consider what a legendary cunt Julia Roberts is. Now consider how cunty you'd have to act like to make that one cry at her own premiere. Lee Radziwell IS that cunt. Lee ploughed through her hefty divorce settlements from that Polish minor 'Prince' she married and was broke and looking around for a rich husband in the eighties. She selected gay Herbert Ross, then earning around $2 million a picture. Ross' friends and the cast of Steel Magnolia's hated Lee. Shirley McLaine did a bitchy impression of her on the set to make the other gals laugh. At the London premiere, which was a Royal Command Performance, meaning Princess Di and Charles were to attend, Ross was told the score by Columbia Pictures : there's strict protocol, key talent line up in one row, their spouses /plus one's stand behind them in a second row. The same for the seating of the screening: stars, Ross and royalty only in the front row. Well, Lee was displeased about this, feeling she had the right to a front row place though she had nothing to do with the production at all. 'Now , I was organising this' says Steve Klain, the Columbia Pictures employee in charge of the event. 'and going into this we were told that Lee was very, very difficult and that she wanted to be known as Princess (Lee still hadn't worked out that the Polish title meant nothing, and the marriage that conferred it upon her had long since ended), so she was always 'Radziwell' and never 'Ross' though she was Herbert's wife now. ' Ross refused to stand in the front line, because protocol dictated that Lee was not allowed in that line next to him. 'Herb, you understand this is only for people connected with the production, and Lee will be standing right behind you'. He said 'It's not going to happen'. Klain told Ray Stark, longtime collaborator of Ross and producer of Magnolias. 'That bitch!' he said. Stark had sharp words with Ross, who relented. The night of the premiere, Lee stood in the second line where she belonged. She and Ross then moved into the theatre, where they were told by Klain 'same deal, Herb up front, Lee you are right behind him'. But Lee made a beeline for the front row and sat herself next to Ross. On her other side was an empty seat, then Prince Charles. According to Edward Shugrue, president of Tri-Star distribution, the seat next to Charles was for Olympia Dukakis, and the one next to that, occupied by Lee, was for Julia Roberts. When Columbia executives spotted Lee, they asked her to move. 'She pretended she didn't hear anyone and stared straight ahead and held firm' says Klain. Then Roberts and Dukakis came down the aisle. Julia whispered to Lee that she was sitting in her seat. Lee would not move. Roberts repeated herself, and Lee ignored her. In desperation, Julia sought the assistance of others. Several people came down the aisle and implored Lee to vacate Julia's seat. One of them was Ray Stark, who tapped her on the shoulder and spoke to her softly. Lee still would not move. Never one to mince words, Stark whispered in her ear 'Lee, you are a cunt'. In the meantime, Charles and Diana kept hearing 'wrong seat!' in spite of the whispering. As a result, Diana got up, and Charles followed. They thought THEY were in the wrong seats. An embarrassing flurry followed as the royal couple tried to relocate. Pandemonium broke about among the Columbia officials. A chain reaction was touched off in the front row with everyone but Lee rising and looking for guidance on where to sit. When it all settled down, stars Roberts and Dukakis were displaced to the second row. Lee eventually got up from Roberts seat - only to sit herself next to Prince Charles in the front row. Roberts was visibly shaken, with tears welling in her eyes. 'It was shameful. Horrendous.' says Klain.

[quote]Yes, but it wasn't unexpected as she had been sick for a while. JFK Jr.'s death probably had more coverage than hers: it was a stop the press, out of the blue mega-story.

More into the blue, actually.

R216, maybe this one?

My but Stas Radziwill looks like Black Jack Bouvier!

More like Salvador Dali!

Yes that’s the post R225. I’m glad people on here found it as enjoyable as I did!

Lee was Dinah Sarsgaard to Jackie’s Bootsie Gumdrop.

In that one picture the color photo, Lee looks like she's wearing a floor length bath towel.

Wow someone no one ever heard of is dead. That doesn't happen every day

She was a useless, pretentious bitch. Thanks to her mother and sister she enjoyed a relatively comfortable life and was able to associate with people of substance. That story of her staring straight ahead not responding at the theatre was disgusting and revealing of her character. Her desperation and her insecurity were pathetic.

R231, this is Datalounge. The fact that you "never heard of " her is sad. Real DL people know who she is.

R178, Jean and Joan and-a who knows who.

And I'm enjoying the comparisons. Georgianne LaPierre to Cher was good.

Real old people, r233.

Ditto, R98

The real Lee.

Thanks, R225. Beautiful apartment.

R231, R235, are you planning on dying young? Because if not, you will be old someday, too. It's inevitable.

R215 thank you for those links. Those were beautiful pics.

I’d love to see her face when she finds out God LOVES Gays, and Hates breathless social climbers!

Just want to put this out there.......

In 1940, when Janet Lee Bouvier divorced Black Jack Bouvier, divorce was still very much of a disgrace, particularly if the woman had children.

Just so you know how bad that marriage must have been.........

and how possibly scarred Jackie and Lee may have been...

Off topic, but

Georganne LaPiere is a interesting name.....

it should be spelled Georgeanne (or Georgianne) La Pierre, but what the hey

When your uber-wealthy big sister cuts you out of your will, you know that you are a bitch!

Bouvier was a total drunkard--falling-down drunk. He mishandled the family's money. And he cheated on Janet right under her nose. There's a photograph in one of the many biographies of the daughters, showing Bouvier, Janet and another woman standing in front of a fence, probably at a horse show. He's next to his wife, but is holding the hand of the other women, out of Janet's sight line.

I don't think he left her much choice.

As for Lee, I think she was pretty awful, and her relationship with Jackie was pretty loaded--as you might expect when she (along with everyone else who knew them) readily acknowledges not only that Jack Bouvier preferred Jackie to her, but that she can understand why. I don't think you grow up with a healthy self-image in those circumstances.

Thanks R243.

R245, thanks for the details.

There is a very touching photo of ayoung Jackie at her wedding, with just the hint of tears in her eyes. She is getting ready to be escorted down the aisle by her step-dad, Hugh Auchincloss.

She had wanted her dad to do the honors, but apparently he was too drunk....or had been the night before.

I'll try to find it.

She was Eugenie to Jackie's Beatrice!

She was Lana Wood to Jackie's Natalie Wood!

She was Dr. Barbara Ross Lee to Jackie's Diana Ross!

R247 here.

Sorry, I cannot find the photo bride Jackie with tears in her eyes.

It was from this book, though.

Bump

OMG. Lagerfeld and Radziwill in the same week!!!!!!!

R251, I know!

Also Serge Merlin from "Amelie," Bruno Ganz, and David Horowitz from "Fight Back! With David Horowitz!"

Not the same week. Lee past on Friday, and the chanel guy passed passed today in paris.

Jackie did not like it when Janet their mother gave lee $750K dollars to help her out. Lee was upset that Jackie was mad at her for taking $$$ from their mother because jackie had millions in the bank and Lee apparently didn't.

Why did jackie have such a whole on $$$? I don't get.

[quote]Lee Radziwill is dead to me!

Oh, who cares about an old fag hag!

Will daughter in law Carole inherit some of the 200 million dollar estate? ...they were very close.

...yes, so Carole's been saying on People. And social media.

I don't believe her

And how did Lee accumulate a $200 million dollar estate? The queens on this site made it sound like she was down to her last $5 million dollars. Like she had nothing left.

But I doubt she has $200 million dollars in assets/wealth etc. Just probably something comfortable enough for her daughter to inherit.

No way Lee had $200 million. Not even close.

[quote] She was Eugenie to Jackie's Beatrice!

More like Beatrice to Jackie's Eugenie. (Poor Beatrice.)

JFK jr was purportedly worth $50MM when he died and there’s no way Lee had anywhere near that.

R261 is correct, no way in flipping HELL did Lee have a mountain of money. I suspect she was worth 10 - 15 million or less, and I’m including all her real estate assets when I say that, so her liquid assets may have been between one and two million, and that’s a generous figure.

One thing there is no denying is that in her own way, she was frugal in that she understood the concept of Good Bones, Great Pieces for her home. She purchased museum-quality, one-of-a-kind furnishings and decor, and rather than spend the money to replace them, she would recycle by updating these pieces — the way any true collector does it. This undoubtedly saved her oodles of money (that she never really had) but is also a testament to her chic eye. Her taste in decor was PERFECTION. Sure, when she was young she made a few garish mistakes, but overall, I would say her homes were a masterpiece. Truly impressive style, and yes, I also think she was an uber-cunt. The cuntiest cunt who ever cunted in fact.

Anyone who can make that cunt Julia Roberts cry without saying a word is okay by me.

Lee and Jackie had wonderful taste and are proof that a slim body with small breasts is the quickest way to make clothing look good. White jeans and a navy jersey could be atrocious on a fat body. Or boring on an average one. But the photo of Lee at r175 is a good illustration of my point. Caroline Bessette Kennedy had the same ability to transform a very basic garment into something chic: black turtleneck or a camel hair coat.

Jackie used to drive Ari Onassis crazy with all her shopping. She would buy shit just to buy it, multiple sweaters in various colors, baubles, purses, couture, or other things, and it pissed him off when he got the bills. But unbeknownst to Ari, Jackie sent her personal assistant to the second hand shops in Upper Manhattan, and they would resell that shit for money. They shop owners eventually figured out who was sending them couture pieces along with the high end stuff from various european fashion houses and kept quiet because they were making a fortune. Jackie would stash her "earnings" in a separate bank account. Janet Auchincloss raised both her girls to be very money conscious. Lee wasn't as smart as Jackie or Lee lacked the imagination to think of that kind of stuff. Lee thought self promotion and marrying well would take care of it. But she started selling off her stuff too at some point.

R264, I’ve heard that story a thousand times. What I would love to know is how much money did she launder lololol? What a conniving bitch, think about how you would feel if your lover or spouse did that to you! It is hilarious. And it really is the ultimate fuck you, she clearly had to hate Ari, no? And who could blame her? Surely she felt justified in taking him to the cleaners as she had to spread those skinny legs for him and let him suckle her perky little boobies, that dirty little Greek animal-killing gnome. I remember reading that he had his entire yacht covered in like whale or elephant ball skin or something outrageous, just to be “different” and hip, but he was just so very crass without even realizing it. The pair of narwhal horns Lee had remind me always as something Ari might have given her; anyone know where she obtained those? I despise animal trophies, but I cannot deny that those make a dramatic visual that is somehow both masculine and feminine at the same time, again a proof of her genius in decor. Anyway, with Jackie’s “money laundering” on Ari’s dime, I might have done the same if only I were as cunning. I would also assume that Lee shared Jackie’s playbook which likely caused great friction with her men, no wonder they all left her out of their wills!!

Anyone know if their mother received a full inheritance from her parents and/or Auchincloss? It is indeed sad how Black Jack turned out as a father, there’s no doubt in my mind that this impacted how both sisters viewed men — unreliable, unfaithful, only good for one thing: money. Perhaps I’m wrong, no one is ever so one-dimensional, but it’s hard to believe their father’s alcoholism didn’t shape their view of men and affect the type of men they chose for partners.

R237. Fascinating interview with Lee.

Sofia Coppola: Could you tell us a little bit about Onassis?

Lee: No.

Ha!

Truman Capote agreeing to tour with The Rolling Stones and write about them...and then inviting Lee in Truman Capote's voice: Oh honey, you gotta come!

Lee: I would adore to come.

She lived life as full as she could.

Great interview.

R263, agreed about small breasts on a slim body.

Now tell that to Gisela (or Giselle, whatever her name is) and all the super models who get implants!

Never understood why Onassis was so pissed about Jackie's spending. The man was a billionaire, or close to it. Whatever Jackie spent on clothes in a year couldn't have been more than a couple million, which was pocket change to a guy that rich.

I'm assuming that Onassis did not give Jackie a suitable budget for other things, which is why she resold the clothes for cash.

R268 Gisele Bündchen is a lot of things. None of them is being elegant. And it has nothing to do with tacky implants

r23 Lee said that directly to Liz Smith, who Capote had begged to call Lee and ask why she wouldn't side with him against Gore Vidal. Liz told Capote's biographer this story.

Didn't Jacquie receive a government pension as first lady/spouse?

r265, in light of your post, you're a fine one to talk about "crass."

Black Jack Bouvier was not just a falling-down-in-public-drunk-as-shit-alcoholic, he was unable to hold down anything resembling a job, or his money. He could not stay solvent or even support his family, borrowed from the family repeatedly, and anyone else dumb enough to believe in his schemes playing the stock market. He lost his seat on the exchange and was a bad risk all around.

Today as I read about him, there's nothing glamorous about him. He was a drunk, a whore, and he was broke. He was probably fun at parties in his youth, and he had a veneer of charm, but that alcohol soaked existence was really unattractive by today's standards. His future as an aging lothario would have been disgusting. The world was probably relieved when he died, although Jackie adored him. I read somewhere that in her social set, in those times, she was raised by Mom to believe all men cheated. Lee as well. So Jackie was both hurt, but philosophical about JFK.

According to folk lore she was totally pissed off at him at one point in their marriage, but since his father was grooming him to run for President, and since he was already in Congress and well known, Joe talked Jackie out of divorce. First, he believed she was the perfect "type" to be a President's wife, a political appendage. She had class. Second, they were Irish Catholics and divorce was totally out of the question. Jackie knew she had leverage, so she told Joe it would cost him if he wanted her to stay. He literally gave her $2Million not to create a scandal by divorcing JFK. Imagine. JFK was the serial cheater, but she would "create a scandal."

I don't begrudge Jackie anything. How many women could maintain their sanity sitting right next to their husband in an open car, and someone blows his brains out. She could have been killed.

Control. R269

R264 I always find that story interesting. We definitely didn't learn about that story in school. But I don't blame her. She wanted financial security, so she took advantage of all the $$$ she had access to to set herself and her kids up for later on.

Not to mention, the $26 million dollar settlement she received from christina and the onassis estate after ari died.

Ole jackie was sitting pretty for the rest of her life.

I haven't seen any comments from Tina Radziwill, but twitter and IG are both lousy with comments from Carole, commenting like the bereaved in response to every obituary and story on Lee. Odd that she's taken that on when there's an actual daughter in the picture.

Interesting, R275. Your last paragraph makes an excellent point. It brought back the memory a time long ago of a day when my mother was following behind my father on their to leave one car in a prime spot for a huge event they were attending later that night. The plan was to leave one car, drive the other home, take a cab back later that night, and leave again from their convenient parking spot.

As she was sitting behind him at a stop light, she watched a car, driven by a drunk driver, speed out of nowhere, crashing broadside into the driver's side of my father's small sports car, and sending the car spinning off the road. My father barely made it through the night but after weeks in the hospital he was sent home to cope with wounds that were slow to heal. He lived the rest of his life coping with damage from that accident.

My mother was a complete basket case for a long while after that. Hysterical, scared, angry, sullen, all in turns. The weeks he was in the hospital were glum. I can't imagine the turn our family would have taken had he died. He was our rock, and in spite of his injuries, never stopped working hard to care for the family.

I messed up the first sentence ^ I sure wish we could edit!

Should read, "It brought back the memory a time long ago of a day when my mother was following behind my father on their way to leave one car in a prime spot for a huge event they were attending later that night. "

Not sure if anyone posted this yet.

[quote]Lee and Little Edie.

My God, just look at that picture in r163 -- you can almost see that Lee is completely exasperated with crazytown Little Edie.

I don't know if I'd call LR "beatuful" per se -- elegant perhaps. (In looks I mean!)

^^^"beautiful"

Picture at R281 brings up the thought,

"They were chic, but they were anorexic."

Not anorexic. Just from an age I which people were, by and large, not 800 pound heffers.

R275, but still, young as she was, how could Janet Lee have married him?

He must have been drunk as shit back then. How could she have not known it would all end in tears?

R286,

Heifers.

Photo, referred to by R245 of Black Jack Bouvier holding the hand of a young cutie out of the line of Janet Lee's vision.

R282, agreed. Great photo.

Lee is trying to be patient with Ms. CrayCray, nonetheless.

Was Little Edie bald?

Thanks, r289. That's the photo I meant.

Kind of a slimeball move.

R291. I guess he was too drunk to care?

The woman in the middle is the one who should be ashamed of herself. But I guess she is young and not too bright.

Tina really keeps a low profile!

I wonder if she is close with her cousin Caroline.

But do you think she was ever happy?

The expression "Poor Little Rich Girl" comes to mind.

As it should be, r293. There are still some families for which death is a fairly private matter, not an opportunity to swarm all over social media staking your grief claim. Tina's from the former (I'm including Jackie et al, since I understand Tina was close to Jackie); Carole clearly is not.

Was Lee ever happy? I'm guessing probably not, r294. I think she was jealous and needy and always worried about/looking for money and recognition. It can't be pleasant always feeling like you're in someone else's shadow. And I don't think happy people are inclined to make their friends (and spouses) unhappy.

Damn, Jackie looked just like her Daddy.

She did. Right down to the scowl.

Bump.

I think the photo at r281 is lovely, and they don’t look anorexic at all. People aren’t supposed to be as fat as they are now.

Did Lee really fall off a squatter potty and hit her head as the poster above said?

[quote]Was Lee ever happy? I'm guessing probably not.

I don't know if Lee's ever been happy...

But when I saw her at Mr. Kenneth's today, she was a real cunt.

Just want to make this clear if it is not already:

Jackie and Lee were full sisters, and their half siblings (from mom's second marriage to Hugh Auchincloss) were Janet and James.

From Janet's marriage to Mr. A, their step-siblings were Nina Auchincloss, Tommy Auchincloss and Yusha Auchincloss. Nina and Tommy were full siblings and were half siblings to Yusha. Nina and Tommy were also half siblings to author Gore Vidal.

R302 here again.

Sorry if this wasn't clear, "Janet" is the given name of both Jackie and Lee's mom and of their half sister.

R299, okay, Jackie is okay, but Lee's legs look like toothpicks. I can't believe that she ever ate a full meal.

So no news about how she died? Was she cremated?

she was 85 and had been confined to a wheelchair for some time. Wondering if she had cancer.

[quote]So no news about how she died? Was she cremated?

I think she was cremated in about 1995.

She smoked a LOT of Benson & Hedges.

Do Catholics permit cremation?

Ii didn't know Bruno Ganz died. RIP.

Yes, R308. Was she a Catholic?

But if she didn't care about the Catholic rule against divorce, let alone three divorces and adultery, I doubt she'd care about one against cremation.

She had her first marriage annulled, and possibly her second.

I read somewhere that when Jackie's would pay a bill that wasn't a monthly one, she'd write out a personal check and sign it, hand it to the staff member to give to the vendor knowing that the vendor wouldn't cash it because they had her autograph.

Honestly, I don't know whether to believe that or not.

"Jackie's"- Jackie

I really wish Jackie hadn't passed away so young.

She never would have let JFK Jr. take flying lessons.

JFK Jr. was just the kind of celeb that I liked and harbored no envy toward.

Oh r274, there’s something amusing about being crude in a thread that focuses on the upper class, I couldn’t resist! It’s the devil in me.

Having said that, I was terrible and tasteless and yes, crass. Can you ever forgive me? I promise not to be so dirty again.

Lagerfeld... this little tart. Why are all these young people dying?

Della, I read a story that compelled to invite Congressional wives to the White House for a dessert recipe trading party, Jackie went to her French chef, got a complicated recipe, and left out a key ingredient, knowing every attendee would try and fail.

I believe the cheque story. Sounds just like her. Bitch, sense of humour, I don't know, but that sounds like Jackie.

Jackie had beautiful shapely legs. But both jackie and lee both looked great in clothes.

Jackie's chef, Rene Verdon had a fabulous restaurant in San Francisco for years.

“Jackie!, Jackie!, Jackie!”

Smoked like a chimney and still made it to 85. Pretty damn lucky.

Steve Smith, Jean's husband handled all the Kennedy money and paid bills. That was true when JFK was President and after his death. But when Jackie married Ari that arrangement was no longer operative. After Ari died and Jackie "came home" The Kennedy family offices handled all expenses and bills and managed income. Not saying she didn't get a random bill once in a while. The check signing story seems like something she might do. However, she also had a personal assistant who managed the household and paid the bills, and signed the checks.

Lee had not been confined to a wheelchair at all. Don't know where that info came up but it is false.

photos, r333.

That check signing story has been attributed to other famous people as well.

R323...looks like she had some swelling in her legs.

Jackie turned down most everything she was entitled to as a First Lady - including the pension. She kept Secret Service Protection for herself and the children.....and her franking privilege. She didn't have to buy a stamp the rest of her life.

Jackie wasn't the typical former first lady. She remarried after JFK,s assassination. And she didn't do all of those former first lady public gathering events you them doing from time to time. She wasn't really that type of person.

She pretty much went back to being a lady of leisure and a socialite. Just like her sister lee. But at least jackie held the title of former first lady and she knew she'd be a historical american figure for all eternity beside her slain president husband in the history books.

She made her mark.

Jackie and her rich friends did a great job on restoring the White House.

Also, she actually did really work at her 2 publishing jobs. Even brought her lunch most days.

She took the 5th Ave. bus to her job at Doubleday in Midtown. Always loved that about her.

R325, swelling in her legs? Congestive Heart Failure perhaps?

Unfortunately, you need a heart to have failure.

Being Jackie-adjacent should have been quite a glittering life for an otherwise lowly homophobic ne’er do well.

Hairdowell

My God, what are you all ignoring the Elephant in the Room?

Lee was morbidly obese - that's clearly what killed her.

I agree - not only was Lee disgustingly fat, Karen

She wouldn't even exercise

Look at her riding in this damn wheelchair - ugh

My mother, a rather well-known beauty in her time, is a vain woman of 83 who refuses to use a walker even after having hip surgery because "only old people use walkers." I am amazed Lee allowed herself to be photographed in a wheel chair for the same reason.

Lee may not have had a choice. That ankle is really, really swollen. Did she have congestive heart failure?

Glorified White Trash all of them.

She looked fine last week coming out of Elizabeth Arden. Not sure nude was the right colour for the nails, though.

[quote]Glorified White Trash all of them.

Ha, I died thin and now I'll only get thinner!

I win!

r337 I bet your mother was Brenda Frazier.

I’m finally at my goal weight.

I thought it would be good for posterity’s sake to link the two Lee threads together.

Also, someone on one of the threads spoke about whale foreskin on Aristotle Onassis’ yacht. It wasn’t the whole yacht, it was just the bar stools that were upholstered in whale foreskin.

Doing anal keeps you thin!

Hump! Hump! Hump! I'll say!

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Have you ever seen a gang looked as vacuous as that?

I'm sure they're lovely people though.

I didn't see a photo of her daughter, Tina at the funeral.

Caroline and Ed look terrible. Very deserved in his case. Total asshole.

I was somewhat surprised to see Marta, the old nanny/cook, with Caroline. I thought there was awkwardness between them because Caroline tried to kick her out of a condo she was living in. Don't know the whole story, but it seemed JFK Jr. was the one who favored her.

Caroline's daughter, Tatiana, is, I hope, blessed with smarts.

Carole would not have been her "former daughter-in-law" per se since she was married to Anthony when he died. "Former" would indicate they had been divorced.

r350, please learn the meaning of "per se."

I'd love to see video/photos of the service and the crowd

Who exactly attended?

R350, your logic is circular

When I click on the link at R347 I get old black-and-white footage of Jackie O and a bunch of other Camelot survivors in front of a church. Where's the footage of Lee's send-off?

R353 I do too— turn off “Show link preview” in settings.

It's extremely windy in NYC today and it shows in some of the photos.

No pics of Lee's half-brother Jamie Auchincloss.

I've never heard of a wicker casket. Seriously?

Andre Leon Talley looks ridiculous. He deserved an invitation? Anna Wintour might still be in France after attending Lagerfeld's cremation service.

Wicker caskets are common now for cremation or green burial.

Wicker caskets? I had a Giant Wicker Man only for me.

Yes, Debo, the former Duchess of Devonshire, also chose a wicker casket for her burial. I liked it then and I like it now. I don't like the idea of being separated from the Earth by a casket.

I think they are for cremation, not burial.

Well, Lee had sold off all if her good furniture. Wicker is fitting.

Poor Tatiana inherited all of her father's features. Mother Nature can be a total bitch sometimes.

Oops, I was wrong: wicker caskets are used for "natural" burial, too. Oy.

R361, are we sure that that photo is of Tatiana?

I thought her face was more slender and angular?

Were like all of Lee's friends fashion designers?

Did she have any just plain old friend friends?

RE the photo of Lee in the wheelchair upthread:

That is the poshest looking wheelchair I have ever seen!

R338, with Congestion Heart Failure, wouldn't both legs be super swollen?

I read somewhere that Lee passed on of age related causes.

I mean, sure, that is nice and vague.

Ironically, she never looked or dressed like an aged person!

R350, please give us an example of that proper usage of "per se."

Wonder if Lee ever bought a Juul?

I like the photo of the guy vaping right before entering the church.

Bump

To use “per se” correctly, one just has to affect a Joni Mitchell voice and use Joni Mitchell mannerisms, and shake one’s hair and utter “per se” when enough people are looking.

All the correct usages are secondary.

r368: per se means "in and of itself" or "by itself"

Poor Peter Beard. Once jaw droppingly hot, now his current wife had to lead him down the steps outside the church. Cheryl Tiegs was one of his former wives. Lee had him at his physical peak, when, as she said, he had the body of a Greek god.

Time & Karma = Real Bitches

They'll kick you right in your Greek God nuts

when you aren't looking

Lee spent a lot of her life being compared unfavorably to Jacqueline

But she plucked Peter Beard at the height of his ripeness

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I suppose Lee was frolicking with her shiny new Boy, Peter Beard

While Big Edie and Little Edie were living in squalor

OMG, Jessica Lang and Drew Barrymore should reprise their roles for a sequel

Grey Gardens II - Princess Lee Comes to Visit

It would be Oscar catnip for M & G - I can see Glenn as Peter Beard now

(Is that raccoon poop on my Pratesi linens?)

R376, interesting photo of Mr. Beard.

Caroline and her husband Mr. Schlossberg are not usually in the background as an afterthought in a photo!

[quote]Caroline and her husband Mr. Schlossberg are not usually in the background as an afterthought in a photo!

The fragile Peter Beard appears to be blocking the exit for everyone

R378, a Grey Gardens sequel is a brilliant idea.

But no matter how well G plays Peter Beard, her performance will be overlooked by the Academy

And they'll probably give M the recognition and nomination

R381, that photo grosses me out a bit. I can smell the cat urine.

Peter Beard must be 90. Give the guy a break.

It's Andre Leon Talley who was the eyesore. Was he wearing clam-diggers?

Peter Beard's wife called the cops and had him put in a psych ward a few years ago, after he staggered home drunk with a couple of Russian whores.

Really? Delightful.

R383, Mr. Beard is but 81 years old!

But Wiki says he was badly injured by an elephant in 1996, so there you go.

R376, I believe that Tatiana Schlossberg is standing behind her dad.

Her face is not visible as she is looking down. She is wearing a white scarf.

The Daily Mirror incorrectly identifies a different woman as Tatiana who is not wearing a scarf.

R384, those look like Uggs, no?

Here are more pix, courtesy of People Magazine.

R384, my bad! I didn't know clam digger referred to his trousers.

Either clam diggers or a skort!

Carole Radziwill's heels are crazy high.

I want to know how she walks in those!

Who was prettier Lee or Jackie?

Hard to say.

Probably Lee, but Jackie's wide spaced eyes give her a unique one of a kind beauty.

Bump

yes, r389, which only makes matters worse. Uggs and clam diggers?? I can't recall and I'm too lazy to look--was he wearing his voluminous mink, too?

r387, "injured by an elephant," has a certain panache, hasn't it?

Both the Schlossberg girls are quite lovely.

r392--take a look at Carole Radziwill's posture--suggests she's walking like a giraffe in those ridiculous shoes.

Thank you, R388, for the dotting and crossing. It's important, and I appreciate it.

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Did Carole Radziwill have to stand outside the church

[quote)She is to be excluded from my funeral for reasons that are well known to her

Carole looked really good. She looked like a billion bucks.

I wonder if she'll still have a relationship with the kennedy family and tina even though lee is gone now? Lee's death is caroles last link to that family now. Does anyone know if tina and carole have a relationship? They were/are sister in-laws after all.

I wonder who contacted her and how did she get her invite to lee's funeral?

[quote]Jackie's wide spaced eyes give her a unique one of a kind beauty.

Hardly unique...

r399, my impression has been that she has no relationship at all with other Kennedys or Radziwills. She was close to John and Carolyn while married to Anthony, but I don't think that extended to anyone else in the family. As to who invited her, it's possible that Lee had made a list; if not, Caroline and Tina probably put their heads together and figured it out.

Caroline Radziwill and Carolyn Bessette were good friends, but Caroline was not close to the other Kennedys or their spouses. Ed Schlossberg HATED Carolyn Bessette.

Do you mean Tina Radziwill, r402

Sotheby’s wants her belongings...which they expect to bring in close to 10 million.Any word or rumors about NY penthouse....will it be sold? Now i see why Data Lounge Frau's were so upset.Jealous heifers

Sorry, r403 I meant Carole Radziwill, who was married to Lee's late son.

Got it, r405--thanks.

r404, your post is completely out of left field.

Is Sothebys really doing an auction for lee?

I read somewhere that there were pink and white flowers in the church because pink was Lee's favorite color.

Having seen pix of her NY place and her Paris apartment, I would have to say "No kidding!!"

R402, Why did Ed Schlossberg hate Carolyn Bessette?

Or is that a dumb question?

r409, because she was thin.

Why would it be remarkable that Sotheby's might auction Lee's property? That's fairly common, and she can't have disposed of everything (although I read that she left Tory Burch all of her botanical prints. I'm sure Tina is the primary if not sole beneficiary; I don't think Lee supported many philanthropic projects.

Lee ripped out all of the Sherle Wagner fixtures in her home and sent them to a consignment shop, so she must have been somewhat hard up, or maybe just not liquid.

Oh, Jesus, is that true?

[quote]Why did Ed Schlossberg hate Carolyn Bessette?

He's apparently a mega-asshole who doesn't really get along with anyone.

^He's the one that made up the "rule" that only Kennedys get to speak at Kennedy funerals. He also yelled at Carly Simon for wanting to leave a note with Jackie's body. Jackie and Carly had been good friends.

JFK, Jr. was having issues with Ed Schlossberg after Jackie died in 1994. Schlossberg began assuming the role of male leader and decision maker within the immediate family and John, Jr. felt that was his position. For example, John did not want the Jackie auction, Ed and Caroline pushed for it. Though the auction earned millions, both John and Caroline only received $100K each after estate taxes, etc.

R415, Jackie's fella, Maurice Tempelsman, spoke at her funeral.

I don't think even Caroline likes Ed very much.

[quote]please give us an example of that proper usage of "per se."

"I have dinner reservations at Per Se next week."

[quote]please give us an example of that proper usage of 'per se'.

"I had dinner reservations at Per Se next week, but I died."

"And now that trashy Jersey cunt Carole DiFalco is trying to use my name all over town."

Jackies estate was valued at $43.7 million dollars when she died. Why did caroline and john jr only get $100K a peace after estate taxes? So than where did all of carolines wealth come from? Isn't she worth like $550 million dollars? According to tax paper work that was filed in 2013 when she was becoming ambassador to china.

WHERE THE FUCK DID HER $$$$ COME FROM????

I thought Jackie left an estate of $150 million. Supposedly the auction itself netted $10 million. Don't know why they should have netted so little. That doesn't make sense. They might have had to pay taxes on proceeds but not an inheritance tax on household goods.

There may have been charitable trusts established with the bulk of Jackie's estate, since Caroline has money in her own right.

I thought she looked stunning in a too rich, too thin socialite way in her latter years.

At least she got to live an interesting life.

Good for her!

I think she's tremendous.

Lee not liquid. The bitch had no money. None.

Glamorous and so evocative of the 1960s. (Photograph by Bert Stern, 1967)

R422, In the book written by John's personal assistant, she was present when he opened the envelope with his share of the auction's proceeds inside. He laughed when he saw it was for just $100K and asked aloud if it had been worth all the trouble.

R429, JFK Jr. just seems like such a good-natured guy with a good disposition who did not take himself too seriously.

R415, interesting about Ed Schlossberg. But perhaps he was making those pronouncements at Caroline's behest? You know so that Caroline didn't come across as being a big bitch?

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He is known to use less ums per minute than his wife, so it might have been a time management thing.

R433, lol. Good one!!

R424, yeah Sis looked good, but she copied my sunglasses.

Re Ed Schlossberg, I always have wondered what it was like for him to be married into such a Catholic family.

I respect him for letting his children be raised Catholic; he did if for the love of Caroline.

But still, it can't have been easy. You know, him being Jewish and all.

Or maybe it was easy. I dunno!

R429, what an awesome looking couple. Dressed casual yet chic, color coordinated, adorable pooch at their side.

I miss them.

John on the cover of People Magazine was always a good thing.

Thank you for those insights, r436.

What did John jr do? He was just a handsome good looking white guy. That's it!

He accomplished nothing if significance in his whole life. He was basically just a tabloid fixture.

He and Paris Hilton are pretty much in the same boat. Famous last names, and opportunities because of who their families are. Nothing else really. But he definitely didn't deserve to go the way he and his wife and her sister went.

r439 you are an utter moron.

Compared to other Presidential children, JFK, Jr. did well for his 38 years. Apart from George Magazine, he was involved in a number of charity organizations and foundations, as well as working to maintain his father's legacy through the JFK Library.

R440, I mean, it is utterly unjust to compare JFK Jr to P. Hilton.

JFK Jr. was legit gorgeous and charismatic. Could have grown up to be a snob, given his background, but didn't.

And it is a fact that he had ADD. That is a supreme challenge to deal with. Oh yeah, and having your dad killed when you are a toddler is no picnic either.

R439, I really dislike when people use the adjective "White" as if it is an abusive epithet.

I don't think anyone benefits from this trend in language.

JFK Jr. kept his charitable work private, but helped thousands

By Fred Kaplan, Globe Staff, 07/21/99

NEW YORK - Everybody knew he rode his bike through the streets of Manhattan, played softball and Frisbee in Central Park, and made grand entrances at black-tie galas.

But John F. Kennedy Jr. also worked - quietly but very intensively, his associates say - with several charity groups that have donated millions of dollars and helped thousands of people in the city he made his own.

In 1988, the year People magazine declared him 'the sexiest man alive,' Kennedy formed Reaching Up, an organization to improve care for the mentally handicapped.

Three years later, he joined the board of the Robin Hood Foundation, a group started by Wall Street millionaires that gives more than $1 million a month to programs to help the city's impoverished children.

'This was no resume-builder for him,' Peter Kiernan III, Robin Hood's chairman, as well as a managing director at the Goldman Sachs investment house, said yesterday. 'This was not a subtle, slight involvement. He was very engaged. He was a full partner. Quite often, he kept us focused on our mission when we started to drift away.'

For some of the group's causes, including a school in Harlem, Kennedy was the one who initiated the contact and encouraged the board to act.

'He came to every board meeting, went to look at every place we invested in,' Kiernan said. 'When we went to a school, he'd talk with the strategic-planning people, and John was very good at that. But he'd also plunge right in there with the schoolchildren. 'Hey, kids, what's going on.' He'd get into conversations with them. ... We lost a great guy here.'

Reaching Up grew out of the Kennedy family's longstanding charity work with the mentally retarded, which began as a tribute to his father's sister, Rosemary, who has been institutionalized for many years.

'John spent about a year investigating how to get involved in this,' said Bill Ebenstein, the executive director of Reaching Up. 'And he realized the best way to support people with disabilities was to support the workers who provided services for them, by creating a program for them in higher education and helping them pay for it.'

Barbara Anselm, now the director of an adult day care program for United Cerebal Palsy in Brooklyn, was a caseworker and advocate for the handicapped in 1991, when Kennedy awarded her a stipend, one of the first.

'It helped me pay the tuition so I could go to classes at night,' Anselm recalled. 'I met John Kennedy. He told me he had selected my application himself. It was nice to know - it encouraged me to know - that people of that stature were supporting me.'

Before Reaching Up, Ebenstein said, people like Anselm had few professional prospects.

'These were people with low-wage jobs, poverty jobs really,' he said. 'There was no career ladder. Politicians were talking then about 'quality health care,' but John realized you could never build a quality system of services unless you had quality jobs for the front-line workers.'

So, Kennedy funded - and persuaded professionals in a variety of fields to develop - a series of courses on disabilities at the City University of New York, especially its East Side Manhattan branch at Hunter College.

'He'd bring public and private entities together to work out how to do this: city and state agencies, the public universities, the hospital workers' unions,' Ebenstein said. 'He could hold a coalition like this together. He led these meetings, visited all the places, knew all the executive directors.'

Ebenstein is unsure whether the organization can continue without Kennedy. 'Keeping these entities together - you've got all this infighting and politics - you need someone who can transcend that,' he said. 'I'm hoping we can keep doing it, but I don't know.'

JFK Jr. kept his charitable work private, but helped thousands

By Fred Kaplan, Globe Staff, 07/21/99

NEW YORK - Everybody knew he rode his bike through the streets of Manhattan, played softball and Frisbee in Central Park, and made grand entrances at black-tie galas.

But John F. Kennedy Jr. also worked - quietly but very intensively, his associates say - with several charity groups that have donated millions of dollars and helped thousands of people in the city he made his own.

In 1988, the year People magazine declared him 'the sexiest man alive,' Kennedy formed Reaching Up, an organization to improve care for the mentally handicapped.

Three years later, he joined the board of the Robin Hood Foundation, a group started by Wall Street millionaires that gives more than $1 million a month to programs to help the city's impoverished children.

'This was no resume-builder for him,' Peter Kiernan III, Robin Hood's chairman, as well as a managing director at the Goldman Sachs investment house, said yesterday. 'This was not a subtle, slight involvement. He was very engaged. He was a full partner. Quite often, he kept us focused on our mission when we started to drift away.'

For some of the group's causes, including a school in Harlem, Kennedy was the one who initiated the contact and encouraged the board to act.

'He came to every board meeting, went to look at every place we invested in,' Kiernan said. 'When we went to a school, he'd talk with the strategic-planning people, and John was very good at that. But he'd also plunge right in there with the schoolchildren. 'Hey, kids, what's going on.' He'd get into conversations with them. ... We lost a great guy here.'

Reaching Up grew out of the Kennedy family's longstanding charity work with the mentally retarded, which began as a tribute to his father's sister, Rosemary, who has been institutionalized for many years.

'John spent about a year investigating how to get involved in this,' said Bill Ebenstein, the executive director of Reaching Up. 'And he realized the best way to support people with disabilities was to support the workers who provided services for them, by creating a program for them in higher education and helping them pay for it.'

Barbara Anselm, now the director of an adult day care program for United Cerebal Palsy in Brooklyn, was a caseworker and advocate for the handicapped in 1991, when Kennedy awarded her a stipend, one of the first.

Lee had alzheimer's like their mother. Lee was an alcoholic and had had trouble with hip replacements thus the wheelchair.

Schlossberg didn't "let" Caroline raise the kids Catholic. In mixed marriages like theirs, the mother's faith determines the children's religious upbringing. That is accepted Jewish custom.

Nobody in their circle ever liked Ed particularly, or understood why she married him. He was older so maybe she was looking for a daddy figure.

R447, I disagree. I think Jackie liked Ed plenty.

R447, interesting point.

In the Jewish faith, the child is thought to be of the faith of the mother.

But in the Christian faith, the child is the faith of the father.

So with Catholic mom and Jewish dad, it is up to couple to make the decision.

And I still think it takes generosity of spirit on Ed's part.

I don't think anyone has ever accused Ed Schlossberg of generosity of spirit.

If there is ever a mixed marriage between a Christian and someone of another faith, Christians believe the children should be raised as Christian or else be damned to eternal hellfire. To suggest " the child is the faith of the father" is bullshit.

I don't think Caroline has ever been very religious. Her brother certainly wasn't.

More Lee gossip, please!

She was pals with Nureyev, as was Jackie?

She was in love with him for years.

Surprised Tina dosen't want all of her mothers belongings.But curiously would love an auction just to eyeball Lee's trinkets.Shoot me.

I doubt Tina wears a size 2. Lee had no major jewels or art left. I'm sure Tina would rather have the money.

When Jackie's loot was auctioned off, I was surprised that Ahnold had to pay for JFK's golf clubs.

I mean, Arnie can obviously afford them, but AWKWARD! He was JFK's nephew, sort of!

R455, Lee probably sold her most valuable belongings for income.

So, Lee had no grandchildren atall atall?

He had to pay for the golf clubs because they were then part of the estate, r547, and nobody can raid the estate.

Same for whatever property of Lee's is getting auctioned. It's no longer the property of Lee qua Tina's mother, so legally Tina can't help herself to mummy's things. It's all part of the estate now. If she has bequests to anyone other than Tina--or debts, for that matter--everything has to be liquidated so that bequests and debts can be settled.

Ah, thanks, R460, but I thought Jackie's estate was left to Caroline and John? Hence, they could have gifted Cousin Arnie with the clubs?

My half brothers’ cousin’s wife is friends with someone who works at the morgue Lee went to. She had an accident at home and bled out. That’s all I can say.

R462, good to know. How about your dog walker's manicurist? Did she have any news?

Nice of Tatiana to come to Lee's funeral.

She was wearing a cape of sorts.

Could she possibly be big with child?

Just checking in after a week away. Predictably this has turned into an OCD JFK Jr. STAN DataLounge Circle Jerk.

Sure, r461. Once the estate was settled and the property had been turned over to John Jr. and Caroline, they could have made Arnold a gift of the golf clubs.

R462, I doubt if Lee was living alone.

Both John and Caroline elected to keep certain items of Jackie's that never went to auction.

Lee speaks . . .

I think Arnie had already turned the marital bed into Hefner’s grotto.

Then the estate must already have been settled, r468, or her will specified that her children could choose whatever items of property they wanted before everything else was auctioned.

I'd kill for her former Paris apartment.

[R472]

Me too...but the family sold it for 4 million in Dec 2017....Vanity fair magazine has the story. Beautiful place stuffed full of antiques and art deco in prime location in central paris.My eyes were in awe.......

Poor Lee,had an attendant or nurse but still bled out....jesus.Surprised Tina hasn't filed a lawsuit. Somebody dropped the ball.

Tina isn't petite,but she is no rotund woman either.

What kind of bleed out was it?

r474, it's where you fuck up the edges on your weave, one needs to moisturize the hairline or wear a scarf.

Seriously, was it internal?

No, not internal.

[R477]

OMG....

I disagree. I think Jackie liked Ed plenty.

Carly Simon said Jackie called Ed the 'old fogey' and didn't like him, and Caroline threatened that if she wasn't allowed to marry him she wouldn't let Jackie see any subsequent grandchildren she might have.

WTF did Caroline ever see in Ed Schlossberg? He was homely and had such a shitty, arrogant personality.

Lee was a renowned drunk, she was probably pissed when she fell and bled. The alcoholism could also explain her thin frame, she probably only drank and not ate..

[R481]

So her nurse/attendant allowed that to happen. Very upsetting...i hope Princess Tina handles this appropriately

R471, It was the latter.

William Holden bled out in 1981, after hitting his head and not being found for days.

^^^^^^ your point?

^incapable of empathy.

The Princess hadn't eaten since at least the 80s. She was bored with food

I read once that Ed stayed behind in NYC while Caroline went off to Japan as our ambassador. That's pretty telling. Can't imagine he'd been so busy designing museum installations that he couldn't have torn himself away to accompany his wife in a situation like that.

R488 I’ve read their marriage is pretty much over. Wasn’t there news a few years ago that Caroline had an affai with the publisher of the NYT? Btw where us everyone reading about how Lee died? I haven’t seen any news items about it.

Caroline will never divorce,its just not done at this level of social status.

So was the book Delores by Jacqueline Susann about Lee...i mean the broke Prince storyline's a dead giveaway

R490, are you posting from the 40s?

R466. I read somewhere of JFK jr commenting after the auction that if they knew AS wanted the golf clubs, they would have given them to him. AS did the right thing.

I purchased the auction catalogue when it became available and was surprised at the condition of many items, especially Jackie's furniture. Not as bad as Joan Collins' stained headboard, but scratches and nicks were on many of the furniture pieces.

Jackie definitely didn't decorate to impress.

Jackie was never Lee....though she tried very hard to be.Hence the condition of the auctioned pieces.

I think Lee,had more class.

R480, well I can see what she saw in him.

He was extremely bright, independently wealthy, mature, and protective of her.

Her mom had married a man 12 years her senior, and Ed is exactly that much older than C.

R492, thanks. Yes, Arnie did the right thing.

But R470's point is interesting too.

R493, pardon my ignorance, but where in the heck did Jackie store all that stuff?

Was she really into clutter? (I am kidding.)

Jackie had high WASP taste, ie Bunny Mellon’s. Decorate to not impress which is very impressive when you are that wealthy.

Jackie was no Bunny Melon

R479, very indiscreet of Carly Simon to repeat that!

I could see "old fogey" sort of being a term of endearment.

I could also see that Jackie might not have liked any potential partner for Caroline or JFK Jr. You know, she was extremely close to both of them; possibly she would have had the feeling that no one was good enough for them. And she might have been "jealous" of the partner's closeness to her kids.

I've heard the rumors that Caroline and Ed are essentially just for show these days. I understand why they're not divorced, he's 73 and she's 61. It's not as though they're looking for second acts.

Was Caroline's hot son there or was he busy at a glory hole?

R500, Bunny Mellon was no Bunny Melon.

R501, Jackie was very fond of Caroline's former boyfriend Tom Carney and John's former girlfriend Christina Haag.

Thanks, R501.

I mean, thanks, R505.

Susann's book Dolores or Delores or whatever it was was about jackie but Lee is another character in it. It was a very slight book and not worthy of the time it would take to find it and read it.

Dolores was a total washout because I wasn't in it.

Jackie trying to be Lee? You must be joking. Jackie never had to humiliate herself continually down-sizing and selling whatever she could to pay her bills.

Once you reach a certain age and your entertaining days are over, even the extremely rich (Mellon, Wrightsman, ..) downsize.

[quote]Jackie never had to humiliate herself continually down-sizing and selling whatever she could to pay her bills.

Jackie sold herself to pay the bills.

I'm talking about after her divorce from the "Prince" and before she snagged Herbert Ross. Not when Lee was old.

R512, so did Lee but she couldn't demand top dollar.

Herbert Ross was a godsend for Lee, financially speaking. Very, very wealthy (also a very nice man, but I doubt Lee considered that). She ran through a great deal of his fortune before dumping him.

What's up with Ari?

He seems short and ugly, but was he a real charmer?

Ross divorced Lee, not the other way around. R515

Lee supposedly wanted $15K a month from newton cope just to have in pocket spending money.

I believe Lee wanting that kind of extravagance on a monthly basis from newton played a big part in them not getting married.

Newton probably saw that as financially unsustainable in the long run. Lee loved and enjoyed money just as much as Jackie and their mother Janet did. They had a lifestyle to keep up with.

She constructively left the marriage, r517.

Where's the proof that lee had to sell art work and jewelry to maintain her lifestyle and to keep $$$ in the bank? I keep hearing people say she constantly had to downsize and sell of things just to stay in the $$. Where's all of this coming from?

R519, the expression "conscious uncoupling" had not been invented yet.

Lee's Paris Apartment? Stuffed with beautiful antiques? You people have very vivid imaginations or no idea what antiques are. There were a couple old pieces, that's it.

R520, a book written about Lee that went into all the sordid details. She sold a Francis Bacon for a fraction of what it was worth. Instead of placing it with one dealer discreetly, she blabbed all over town and people knew she was desperate.

Same with some major furniture pieces., jewelry and other art and her first nice apartment in NY.

I remember reading “Dolores,” it was not Susann’s best work to say the least. There was one inane line where Jackie says to Lee over tea, “Oh, you have those marvelous cucumber sandwiches!” That’s about all I clearly recall.

I just got curious and looked up Bouvier on Google translate. It means cowherd.

Or as Jacleen would say, “personne qui soigne les boeufs”

"constructively left the marriage" means that she walked, regardless which one of them filed. She chose to no longer live with Ross because she hadn't realized she would have to spend so much time in L.A., which she hated. And by this time she had spent his money building and decorating her/their new house, so really what was the point of remaining married. He filed in order to protect whatever assets remained, and died within a year.

r520 may mean "In the Shadow of her Sister," a really juicy and wholly unauthorized bio of Lee. Worth reading if you're into this stuff.

The book is called In Her Sisters Shadow. Most of these claims are backed by public records. If you sell a place for let's say $2 million and buy something for $500K what would you call that? And this was in the 70s, not when Lee was old.

Well, fine; close enough. I must have confused the title with the nasty Samantha Markle book. In any case, it's a good read.

Thanks to whoever posted that Lee interview clip upthread. I actually miss Larry King on CNN, like him or not he was a great interviewer, asked the sort of questions normal people would.

Lee and Jackie and Little Edie had the most curious accents. Such distinctive pronunciations of certain words, and a kind of slight slurring. Very unusual to my ears. And I see Lee liked to use the word "enormously," as I believe Jackie did too, on the White House tour.

R530, I was posting at the same time as you. Excellent book.

Lee got 4 million for that apartment in Paris Dec 2017.She was hardly broke or destitute.

An the NY apartment could be worth 3 times that. Its funny how people love to paint Lee as poor. Forgetting her properties,jewels,paintings,etc.

An to the paris apartment, Lee had 4 Chagalls in a closet.4 Chagalls.....4 sitting in a closet.Lee also has the property in upstate NY.Carol buried part of Anthony 's body at that beach behind Lee's house because it was Anthony's favorite place.The other half of Anthony's ashes went to that British church his father helped.As of the middle of 2016 Lee still had that 15 room property as well.

I can't imagine but Lee Radziwell was hardly broke dears.

Someone as extravagant as Lee could blow through $4 million pretty quickly--assuming that some or all of it wasn't already owed to creditors.

That 15-room property is the one built with Herb Ross's money. She refused to sell it while they were still married because she didn't want Ross to share in the proceeds. And then he had the good grace to die so she was off the hook.

[quote]pardon my ignorance, but where in the heck did Jackie store all that stuff?

Jackie had her big apartment on 5th Ave., a house in New Jersey and a house on Martha's Vineyard.

[R534]

Probably, i just remember Carol [the publicity seeking NY wife] and that story.Splitting the dead son's ashes....no wonder Lee hated her. Carol called that house Lee's house many times. Are you sure Ross didn't give it to Lee.He gave her many trinkets.

"I call Jerry the maawble faawn."

Typical Longuyland accent

No one was claiming Lee was destitute. She spent money like water when she had none and made many foolish financial decisions. Marrying Herbert Ross was the best thing she did for herself, otherwise she would have been borderline Beale.

I didn't think Ross gave Lee that house, r534, but I suppose he might have done just to get the divorce wrapped up, since she refused to sell it. I think he was beginning to be unwell during the settlement negotiations, and he might have just wanted to be done with her.

That interview lee did for the New York Times! The apartment she's in looks pretty pricey to me. And it looks like it was filled with lot of expensive trinkets. I don't think lee was as hard up for money as DL likes to make it seem.

You'd be surprised at what people really have stored away.

I think "hard up for money" may be a relative concept.

Lee may have been loaded and she may have had gorgeous apartments, but that doesn't mean a thing if you don't have a honey to keep you warm at night.

Trite, but true!

R541, yep, for sure!

R542, if anyone DLers can provide any song lyrics (either pop songs or B'way standards) that illustrate this point, I would be most appreciative.

"Make Someone Happy" (Styne/Comden/Green "Do Re Mi")

R545, thanks so much!

If anyone does the slightest bit of research, you could see Lee was relatively cash poor. That means you have to sell things to live. Her grooming bills in the 80s were over over $10 thousand a month. God knows what they were before she died.

An apartment filled with expensive trinkets? We'll see when they have the auction. And if Lee had 4 Chagalls just sitting in a closet, they weren't worth hanging or she would have. Or sold them.

R531, Here's a written transcript of the entire 2001 interview.

What can you possibly do/have done to yourself for $10 thousand a month?

[R547]

Deal....don't disappear on me.I bet Lee's goodies are worth at the least 8/9 million.I just can't see Tina letting go of much.Isn’t Tina wealthy also?I mean if Anthony left NY Housewife 30 million...Tina has got to be in the chips as well.JS

10 grand a month,certainly not the behavior of somebody "cash poor"

Larry King is so annoying. He interrupts too much.

[quote]What's up with Ari? He seems short and ugly, but was he a real charmer?

Yes, Ari had million$ of ways of charming Jackie.

R552, All the millions she inherited after her father died couldn't save Christina Onassis, who died at 37 from a fatal heart attack while in the bathtub.

People are always talking about how being wealthy doesn't bring you happiness. But you never see one wealthy asshole eager to get rid of or give away any of their wealth.

Let's face it, people would rather be unhappy and depressed with $2.5 billion dollars in the bank than feel the same way and be completely broke. Money always provides comfort and security.

Look at all the wealthy people throughout history who had everything monetarily speaking and was still very unhappy throughout their lives. A perfect example is socialite Barbara Hutton who inherited $900 million dollars in today's money. Very depressed and unhappy throughout her entire life and never gave any of it away. She enjoyed every Inc of her fortune until it was all completely gone.

Rich people just like to complain.

R550, I'm not going anywhere. You wait and see about Lee.

I think $10 thousand a month is how she got cash poor, r550

R535 Jackie also had a huge storage unit somewhere. This summer I read the book written by her personal assistant. It was an easy read— nothing really new. In the book the author recalls going with Jackie to her storage unit after she (the PA) got married. Jackie offered to let her pick out some furniture from the unit to furnish her newlywed apartment.

I gave the book to my mother after reading otherwise I’d grab it to double check where the storage unit was.

Who says Anthony Radziwill had $30 million? I think his father was pretty much broke when he died and Stas had had other children before.

Jackie established $500,000 trusts for each of the Radziwill children. I suppose it's possible that his trust grew, but I doubt it.

Is the $30 million figure coming from Carole the Real Housewife?

I'm sure it was Celebrity Net Worth- so accurate.

I’m “usually” a solid estimator of one’s net worth. If I were to wager, I’d put Carol at say $2.5 mil. Yep, that’s it. She probably has a tiny little pension from ABC, she entered that marriage with zero wealth, and Anthony had very very little. Most of her net worth is real estate, but she lives relatively simply so, no kids, minimal expenses, she maintains the luxe veneer. TOPS 4 mil.

r561, I would agree with you. She made a little money off of her book but I would bet that what spurred her to become a Real Housewife was the paycheck. She needed the money.

Indeed

When carole left housewives last year. She said she saved and banked her money for a rainy day.

Some people don't care about being enormously wealthy. Some people just want to be rich adjacent comfortable and able to do whatever they want. I think that's probably carole.

I totally agree r564. And 4 mil is rich adjacent.

Hmmmm. The Kennedy cousins-in-law are quite a bunch.

A Real House Wife of New York on the Bouvier side and those Skakel people on the Skakel side.

Also, this thread is related to the Michael Cohen thread!

Chris Cuomo's name was mentioned during the testimony. Chris is the brother of Andrew, the ex-husband of Kerry Kennedy.

I meant to write "Congressional Hearings" not testimony. My bad.

Carol brought that apartment she occupies for 2 million.As many times as they flashed the price surprised you all missed that?An rough estimates put her worth at 30-40 million. ...most from Anthony inheritance. Which is why the gag on NY Housewife was Bethany hated her because she was just as wealthy as Bethany. Prince Anthony was quite successful before ge got sick.An his novel about his illness was a NY times bestseller.Carol has more money then you all think.

I didn't know a thing about Carole, but with 3 Emmys, a Peabody and a high six figure advance for her book she seems to have done quite well aside from her Housewives money. She's probably the most accomplished and educated of any of the bitches in this franchise.

R569, I demand receipts. If memory serves, did she not buy that unit immediately after Anthony died? I have a hard time believing that unit was 2+ million 25 years ago — but I shall joyfully eat crow pie as I would be more curious to hear that she’s truly worth that much. Also, I have many friends in NYC but I can’t claim expertise on the real estate values that long ago in that neighborhood.

Regarding Jackie's Sotheby sale and crappy furniture. Jackie did indeed have a storage facility full of things. Caroline and John kept all the beautiful valuable possessions of their mothers and Sotheby's staged photographs of the crappy stuff rearranged in Jackie's apartment to make it appear they were the décor she lived with and made a fortune off the tattered reproduction furniture and common household items. Letitia Baldrige the old gossip used to tell this story. Jackie and her kids had the last laugh and everyone thinks Jackie's taste horrendous and cheap,

R572, that's so stupid. She probably did have a lot of stuff in storage - and she owned two homes (NYC and Martha's Vineyard) and rented two others (New Jersey horse farm and small Virginia horse country house).

I have a copy of the Sotheby's catalog from her estate, and can assure you that it isn't filled with junk. While there are some inconsequential items in the catalog that likely went for a lot more than they were worth, there were a lot of high quality pieces included in the sale - I imagine things that John and Caroline simply didn't have the space for.

How in the world is this thread still going?? This woman was a human cigarette/professional photobomber!

R574, how is this thread still going on?

For the same reason Lee R. was a celeb during her lifetime! Proximity to Jackie O and the Kennedys!

Jackie had a storage facility?

That makes me think of the episode of Seinfeld where Bob Sackamano has a storage facility and rents part of it to Kramer, and Kramer sublets part of his section of the sf to Newman.

I hope Jackie didn't use one of those facilities where cocaine and dead bodies are hidden.

R572, very interesting about restaging her belongings in her apartment.

Jackie already had a huge estate thanks to the smart investment strategies of her beau Maurice T.

The Sothebys auction was just the cherry on the icing on the cake.

r572 doesn't know that at all. People make shit up here all the time just to see how many gullible idiots fall for it.

R578 Your right, there's a bunch of good liars on this site. Sometimes you don't know what or who to believe.

But it's still fun to read it anyway.

This thread is still going because most DLers want Lee's life (minus the bouts of relative poverty).

I remember being surprised at all the cigarette lighters, cigarette cases and ashtrays in Jackie's estate catalog. It wasn't generally known that she smoked until a while after she died.

In the 40s, 50s and 60s, even non-smoking households had cigarette cases and boxes, table lighters and ashtrays. The silver cig boxes and table lighters were standard wedding gifts. (and yes, I do know she was a secret smoker)

Even the 70s. I remember my mom getting a Lalique lion head table lighter as a house warming gift. I yanked out the lighter and use it as a vase.

Exactly, r582. I grew up in a non-smoking household but we had plenty of ashtrays around for smoking guests. It was just accepted in those days that people would smoke in your house.

There was a rather well-known photo of jackie using a cigarette holder to smoke back in the '60s but I agree that the amount of her smoking was kept on the downlow.

[quote]It wasn't generally known that she smoked until a while after she died.

In even in death, she just couldn’t give up the cigs, could she?

I'm not sure that Jackie was a heavy smoker like Lee. Jackie was quite athletic and loved to jog.

Fuck off r585.

Jackie smoked like a chimney, it was well-documented.

Non-smokers may have kept ashtrays in their homes, but I doubt they kept several pocket-sized lighters.

No, probably not. But I meant those heavy silver Ronson table lighters. I don't remember going into a home in the 50s-60s that didn't have one on a coffee table, along with a sliver cigarette box (often engraved with the couple's wedding announcement or invitation).

How do you know Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg's hubby hated Carolyn Bessette? There is no mention of Tina Radziwill being at her own mother's funeral. Are there no photos of her? Anthony Radziwill and John John were very close. Almost like brothers.

Maybe the press respected Tina's privacy, r590. Or maybe she went into the church through another entrance and wasn't seen on the "red carpet."

I grew up in the 1980s and even then is was common courtesy to allow guests to smoke in your home even if you were a non-smoker. My non-smoking parents kept ashtrays in a cabinet and set them out around the house before they had people over. If you asked a smoker to take it outside back in those days, it was considered a social faux pas and being rude to your guests. Unbelievable now, but that's just how it was.

As I remember it, the shift of smokers going outside started in the early 90s, and by the late 90s it was common practice.

I imagine Tina would have arrived early, being the surviving family member and the one to greet the invited guests coming in. The photographers might have missed her.

R592, quite so.

I remember at weddings, matchbooks with the name of the couple and the date of the wedding would be printed up.

And ciggies were always on every table, but not Marlboros.

Why not Marlboros? I thought that was the most popular cigarette brand.

R592, I think we can thank Surgeon General C. Everett Koop for our non-smoking culture.

He had Federal Government employees go non-smoking in 1988, and other businesses gradually followed suit.

Jackie was a chain smoker, as was Pat Nixon.

Jackie smoked during all of her pregnancies, which caused John, Jr. and Patrick to be born with the same lung infection.

Here's Jackie smoking while pregnant with Patrick.

Jackie didn't quit smoking until her cancer diagnosis. And even then she did it reluctantly.

R581 how did she pull that off ???

She tried hard not to be photographed smoking in public, and was seldom caught. No internet then, either, to blast the pictures all over the world r599. Also, smoking was allowed indoors in public places so she didn't have to go outside and smoke on the street.

r599 = Persnickety language police and a tiresome bore.