AfterEllen and the Trans

Is there a tl;dr version?

It sounds like AfterEllen hired some "woke" writers who shifted the tone of the site towards trans inclusiveness (some women have penises! Deal with it!) which of course caused actual lesbians to leave the site, causing a decline in revenues, and causing the site to change hands and the Woke Writers to be fired.

The Woke Writers then went to outlets like the Advocate and OUT and other publications and started bashing AfterEllen and predicting its imminent demise - for years now.

Some rag mag called DIVA put out a trans inclusiveness statement with the dramatic title "Not in our name" calling for editors and writers to be condemned if they didn't Stand With Trans™ and all that entails. AE decided not to sign it because of the violent language about attacking those who didn't agree and then the unholy floodgates of Woke Twitter deluged on them as the various publications published think pieces and other editorial rants disguised as journalism and attacked AfterEllen with the fury of a trans activist scorned.

It seems AE doesn't jive with the "trans women can be lesbians too!!!" thought police and decided not to suck up to them with a stupid statement, and got blasted for it.

That's what I have deduced by reading the post and the comments, anyway.

OP there have been two updates to the site since that was posted on Jan 15th, looks like. Not sure what their typical posting schedule is or maybe they just took a few weeks off.

For the most part, it's updated at least every other day and usually every day. They'll take an occasional long weekend off during a holiday or something. That's why it's strange that it stopped updating so quickly following that particular post, especially knowing that they've been being attacked all over the Twitterverse.

R4, are you new? I mean to the world, not just DL. Idiot.

Dumbass R5 calling me an idiot who is new to the DL.

If only her lousy brain could retain the words I wrote =

"chased off the DL several years ago" then she wouldn't have egg all over her face right now.

Poor thing.

You're in the minority here, R6. More so every single day...which you'd know if you had been on DL for any real time in the last five years.

More revisionist history R7.

Within the last five years, your little movement tried to drop the T & even made a few headlines but went down in flames.

Now you're back on the DL after threatening to take your crap elsewhere.

The truth is you probably didn't have the numbers (or the brain power) to make your own message board so you came crawling back here.

For the record, I've been on the DL for over a decade now & witnessed your failed attempts firsthand.

R8, go read this thread if you want to know where DL stands.

One thread among thousands means nothing moron.

You're just grasping at straws.

R10, the other hundred similar threads have been deleted because of people like you who are afraid of discussion on the topic. If you don't know that then, like I said, you haven't been around here much.

R11 I know they've been deleted (hopefully like this one) because I helped get rid of them dummy.

You made my point when you mentioned the hundreds of threads have been deleted because the MAJORITY are tired of your polarizing shit.

A few bad or crazy apples shouldn't spoil the whole bunch.

Take your junk over to the comment sections on the Drudge Report articles.

They'll love you all four of you guys over there.

R11, don’t waste another second on this person. He’s not interested in the thread topic, only in flinging insults.

I certainly hope AE and its editors are doing well. They have been extraordinarily brave in standing up for lesbians.

R13 You're a bigger moron than R11.

R5 started the insults with the word "idiot". I just turned the tables on her with the facts.

I don't take crap from anyone.

Case closed.

General question... Why are the pro-T posters always so aggressive, launching in with ad hominem attacks rather than winning debates through reasoned arguments...? It's exactly the same on social media. No hearts and minds campaigns - just insults, shut-downs and threats.

Poor R15 The anti - T's started the insults on this thread. Try to read R5 if you are able to.

Now practice what you preach R15 & go after her for bringing the first attack against someone on this thread with the word "idiot".

"Rather than winning debates through reasoned arguments" = I believe you also just described your threadmate R5 to a T (pun intended).

The simple truth is that you anti-T folk can't get your facts right on anything including who starts name calling on a thread or anything else.

Yep. R16 proving the point.

Fortunately his, "unique" syntax betrays him on every thread. We are many, he is few.

R17 I haven't been on an anti-T thread in awhile so you must be confusing me with one or more posters.

I usually ignore these threads but I'm not in the mood to see any of them today so that's why I've been a thorn in your side. Deal with it.

Count me as one who believes that the anti-trans movement doesn't belong on DL and never has. It's a non-issue for gay men. Trans people don't threaten us. We have very little to do with them, and they with us. This is strictly a battle between radical lesbians and radical trans. By the way, the majority of trans are not radical - nor are the majority of lesbians. As someone who has participated in a number of anti-trans threads over the past several months, and one of the very few who injects actual facts into the discussion rather than anecdotes which get repeated infinitum, I can say that the hysteria lies on the anti-trans side. Let me reiterate one fact here. For the past number of years, the AVERAGE number of surgical trans operations has been between 2000 and 3000/year, with a small increase every year. Less than one out of 1000 Americans/per year undergoes this operation. Compare that to 1,800.000 plastic surgeries of all types, just to get a small comparison going. Half of that 3000 is for Female to Male, which for most in the anti-trans camp represent less of a problem. That means that about 1500 Male to Female operations are performed in a year. And this is a national crisis which represents total gay and lesbian erasure because????????...................................................

In spite of the massive publicity about a very few, there is much opposition in the medical field to sex reassignment surgery before someone has reached 18. Possibly hormones beginning at age 16. The numbers of exceptions, except in the case of children who are born intersex is inifinitessimaly small - and yet, again, this is a NATIONAL CRISIS, because?????........................................

I don't see how being against the sterilization and chemical/surgical mutilation of children who studies show mostly turn about to be gay is "anti-trans."

I agree through, the heterosexual feminist activists who have invaded DL and ingratiated themselves amongst gay men are a bit tiresome. You ladies far overestimate the power of this website to spark political action and would be better suited applying for positions within "LGBT" organizations as "bisexuals" or "allies." The reins of power are not held on DL. You actually have to start attacking the head of the monster, and it's not by partnering with the Heritage foundation, which promotes and defends X-tian conversion therapy for gays. It does your cause no good to be associated with these groups.

15 - If I was supporting a movement that has let paedophiles under cover infiltrate it, hates half of the world's population, especially the non compliant ones amongst it, is homophobic, is boosted by Straight , white, male money and whims and is the first top/down "rights" purview going under cover as "civil rights" and is jam packed with the personality disordered, I'd be a hateful, raging,paranoid mess, too. Considering that the first objective question asked about the movement and it's goal post changing "philosophy" always brings a vision in a sane person's mind of a house built of sand, crumbling...what else is a transactivist to do , but to go "extra"? There is no way that their aims or arguments can be won with reason. They either have to "keep it ethereal" with talk of "souls", "born in the wrong body", "female brains" to attract the simple and "nice" who are too follow fashion and need to be seen to be "correct", to the point that they educate all intelligence out of themselves, or they have to attack and lie ( like the unhinged fool on this thread whose lies can be proven easily, but what is "proof" to the co morbidly disordered?) and doxx.

They'll never be able to take the foot off the gas. As each generation is born, the signals that have been laid down in our DNA to tell what something is NOT and not what something IS will always remain in all creatures of Creation, including and most importantly, humans. Transactivsts will have to pull a permanent King Herod with people's firstborns, for ever more for them to even be one hundredth successful in upending The Paradigm, permanently. I mean , it took for Neoliberalism to be a thing for Transactivism to make it this far and people hardly believe their idiocy that has only been finessed by money changing hands, white mediating class conformity and anti child, ,anti female stunts pulled by so called "good people", also in awe to Neoliberalism, just not as much as "them over there" .

They'll never win. They know it. That is why they went through the "I got to be nice" white, mediating class types first and their POC adherents. A set of people more conformist and passive aggressive do not exist in Creation. This type of person knows how to do "overseer" better than anybody else. I just hope that they have been practising their Kung Fu for when "Mr and Mrs Rough and Tumble " comes for them, because that is what they are going to need for trying to be the boss of everybody. In fact I give a "chapeau" to malignant Transactivists for using them to hide behind. Entitled recognised Entitled, I guess.

R19 You know nothing about pediatric transition and puberty blockers, then. The exponential rise in referrals and the activism surrounding it. Don't sit there and say you're "just injecting facts" when it's abundantly clear you're unversed on these issues and have already expressed your bias that you think the gay and lesbian response (which you characterize as 'radical') is overblown.

Mutilating gay children to legitimize a few wealthy white heterosexual men's fetishes is radical. Declaring that homosexuality doesn't exist if someone falsely believes themselves to be the opposite sex is radical. Trans receiving 2x as much individual funding from LGBT orgs as any other letter in the acronym is radical. Men in women's prisons (wherein one raped 4 women) is radical. Men setting world records in women's sports is radical.

Regardless of how trivial an impact you think this has on gay men, and I doubt very much you actually are one, there will a blowback to this Orwellian insanity. Humans do not change sex. Men who think they are women are not lesbians.

Thank your R19. You summed up my position perfectly in your statement.

I'm done with this thread for today.

I hope it's gone from my thread keeper tomorrow.

20 - Well associating with pedophiles and pedophile defenders who are very prominent within Transactivism which has used "LGB" as a means to couch their degeneracy in "respectability" ( I can't find anything more homophobic than the "gays are deviants" arguments pretty much anywhere, but that's just me. It used to be LGB for a fuck long time, too, but "funny money," eh?) hasn't done the cause of Transactivism any harm , has it?

Or are you just being disingenuous with your demand for "purity" from anti transactivists?

R24 The "trans pedophilia" connection is a losing argument for feminist activists. They are not good at picking their battles or recognizing how deeply offensive it is to the same gay men they're trying to get fired up about the trans issue impacting L's and G's.

Couple that with the Heritage foundation partnership and it feeds into the trans activist narrative about 'TERFs' being a right wing hate group. Most of them I think are just desperate since they've been exiled from the left. However, the excuse that a lot of those Heritage radical feminists are lesbians and cant be homophobic doesn't really cut it since we know how many lesbians feel about us and it's hardly any different from the rest of their Heritage buddies.

Does anyone have any comments about AfterEllen? (Also, I'm not reading the lengthy essays above - you guys may think you're making points but very few will see them because of the walls of text).

The aggressive ass on this thread should just be blocked. No good can come of engaging with it. It's acting exactly like AfterEllen's statement talks about - bullying in an attempt to intimidate and silence speech it doesn't agree with.

In the statement AE mentioned the point of such tactics wasn't to primarily destroy the target, but to cause everyone else to be afraid to stand up and say anything and to further give an incentive for showing them support, as in their mercy they won't attack you.

Any nuance or distinction between topics goes out the window because their goal is not to discuss, but to silence.

R26 Not reading that lengthy essay, sorry. I'm sure you thought you were making a point.

R27 cute, but I was clearly talking about the posts at r19 and r21.

R28 I know, I skimmed and it was mostly incomprehensible.

My comment about AfterEllen is I'm glad it exists and they should seek donations in order to advertise aggressively as it seems more and more lesbian youth are being indoctrinated into "give lady penis a try" queer media like AutoStaddle and the other gender centric ones. Memoree Joelle has to get serious otherwise AE could disappear like a lot of other principled lesbian publications. Being snide on twitter isn't going to win the war. She should invest in some bots to inflate her tweets like TRAs and "microinfluencers" do.

R29 you should read the fucking statement by AE then if you think it's incomprehensible, since it's about that. Which is the actual point of this thread. It's not even mentioned in most of the rants above.

Just admit you were being a cunt and stopped reading after the first paragraph to post your anger-induced "dig" and now feel stupid.

R30 I'm confused. Are you behind R19? I responded to it at R22 which you can read again if you'd like some clarification. Only one of us is angry and should feel stupid about what's been written here.

Jesus christ. Nevermind, you certainly are confused.

R32 It's an anonymous message board where sometimes it's hard to follow which replies are to who. Sounds like you can't defend your point, if you were even making one. Take your nap and your estrogen tablet, Drusilla.

R33 dude. I was complaining about the ridiculous long posts above. That do not even touch on the bloody issue the thread is about. You clearly were responding to those. I didn't read your posts because they were responding to the long threads above. Which weren't yours, but I didn't read yours because they were in response to the others.

I am the one who posted the summary of the ACtUAL issue of the thread. And who was pointing out that the

You can blame the formatting all you want, but my posts were pretty clear and used references (except for the first one, which you assumed I was talking about your post, and then fired off a cunty remark). - however I corrected that by telling you which posts I was talking about - but that only seemed to make you MORE confused).

At this point you should start at the beginning and review the posts. It's not that hard and it shouldn't be confusing.

R34 You DIDN'T clarify which posts you were talking about, you still haven't, you said Jesus Christ and threw in another snide remark. It is very obvious that no matter how many times you call others cunts it's you with the serious aggression issues and I hope whichever side of the issue you're on you do it a favor by logging the fuck off.

Asshole.

R35 perhaps you missed the post at r28 where I linked the specific ones I was talking about.

Yes, at which point I assumed you were another person because I didn't see your childish "you seem triggered" signature. Goodbye.

Whatever, r37. Kind of rich to be whining about my "childish" response given your initial cunty remark. Goodbye.

I smell a 17 year old "aedan" using deliberately hostile netspeak and platitudes found in gaming circles to compensate for the fact that she's a woman. Call me crazy.

Really, in the Gucci thread you're calling me an old man.

There's no point in continuing to argue with you. You are clearly a hopeless case.

I'm crushed we'll never interact again. Really.

After Ellen rocks so sad if the mental cuntless wonders have destroyed that as well, fuck all trannys do is destroy

Almost three weeks and still no update at AfterEllen.

Dykes are notoriously lazy.

r43 No update to the article, maybe, but they've posted new things since then.

[quote]Let me reiterate one fact here. For the past number of years, the AVERAGE number of surgical trans operations has been between 2000 and 3000/year, with a small increase every year.

And what is this factoid supposed to prove, other than the fact that something like 80% of adult TIMs decide to keep their dicks and thus remain a threat to women when they insist on coming in to the women's locker room? Because as has been pointed out over and over, most adult TIMs are attracted to women.

Contrary to adult transgenders, most if not all trans-identified kids are gay, as we are the ones that exhibit gender non-conformity at this age. The big trans surge has only happened in the last 5 years. Most of these gay kids probably haven't reached the age where they can have operations yet. I predict a big increase in operations in the years to come.

Lesbians can have penises too!

I’m with r22. Like most gays & lesbians.

R25, a lot of Ts have gotten in trouble for messing with kids. In fact, a T “youth counselor,” who calls himself “Julianna” Fialowski is currently in jail for child porn. There’s tons more cases...do some research.

R49 I've uh... done some research. In fact I'd say I'm probably more versed on these cases than you are.

It is still a losing political point given the years anti-gay activists spent saying, and are still saying, the exact same things about gay men. There have also been gays that have "gotten in trouble for messing with kids," but when this becomes a tool with which to impugn all gay men as sexual deviants and molesters that do not belong around and should not be able to adopt children it crosses the line into bigotry and you will not be winning over any gay men that recognize this line of attack as being hurled at them. Feminist activists like yourself still obsess madly over the young drag kid while not batting an eye at the enormity of child exploitation that comes in the form of toddler beauty pageants.

I repeat, the tranny pedophilia connection is a losing talking point for a mainstream audience. Especially when it veers into derangement like "trans creating living transhumanist fuck puppets out of children with puberty blockers" stuff. Do some research on that.

R50 is a big fibber, he's all over these threads, moaning, but in this new incarnation he is pretending to be rational. Nope.

Transgender “women” are incarcerated in the US at a 19.3% rate, while white men are at a 5% rate and women at a much less than 1% rate.

James Rennie ,Chief Executive of LGBT Youth in Scotland went to jail for being the ringleader of a pedophile ring.

Chad Severance Turner, one of the LGBT leaders behind the North California Bathroom bill, is a convicted child molester.

Here’s a whole website with grotesque Transgender crimes.

R45, as of tomorrow or Sunday, it will have been three weeks since the newest posted article, the one about the black lesbian superhero, on AfterEllen. Before now, the new posts came at least every other day, if not every day.

I’m really starting to hate the words “folk” and “folks” since they’ve been hijacked by the Ts and the whole SJW crowd (see R16). I’ve actually stopped using “folks” altogether in correspondence.

I've hated "folks" since Obama started using it. Why did he use it so much? It's not a Chicago thing. Did someone tell him it sounded non-threatening or something? It always grated. Almost as much as all these idiots using "homeland" and "treasure".

[quote]the tranny pedophilia connection is a losing talking point

The opposite is true. Just like: “transwomen are women.” The opposite is true. Transwomen are men.

This is so obviously an attempt to eliminate women as the gatekeepers to children. That’s why some pedos want to impersonate women. They want kids to trust them. Kids generally trust women over men. With good reason...per Michael Jackson, Bryan Singer...catholic priests.

Mainstream people are disgusted by pedophilia. We don’t want children & babies victimized by predatory men.

Allowing men in women’s spaces is like allowing foxes in hen houses. It’s dangerous. It defies logic. It’s counter to our basic survival instinct.

Hide behind gay rights all you want. But I and other gays will fight you every step of the way. Just like we did in the 70s when the man-boy love freaks tried to join us.

T is a lie. Men are not women. It’s impossible to change sex. Tons of “transwomen” have harmed children & women. It’s inevitbale. You can identify out of male pattern violence.

Say their names:

[italic]Patricia Wright

Charlotte Reed

Benny Diambu-Wright [/italic]

Typo:

You cannot identify our of male pattern violence. It is what it is.

From r160 on the Andrew Sullivan / T thread:

[quote]Now a lesbian named Amy Dyess, who writes for the only prominent US lesbian publication still for actual lesbians, AFTER ELLEN, apparently is trying to get some kind of lawsuit going against Twitter for kicking feminists off.

[quote]General question... Why are the pro-T posters always so aggressive, launching in with ad hominem attacks rather than winning debates through reasoned arguments...? It's exactly the same on social media. No hearts and minds campaigns - just insults, shut-downs and threats.

It's literally all they have along with their flagrant abuse of the word "literally."

Any news? Are they posting?

Posted TODAY!

To the guy who said he is fine with the trans and how hey don’t impact him; will you eat out an ftm? It may not impact you, but as a 22 y/o gay guy it bothers me. There is a whole generation of entitled ‘gay’ ftms coming through. Spend 5 mins on YouTube and these people have hundreds of thousands of followers. Many have convinced their tween audience that cis gay men are oppressive and transphobic dinosaurs and fetishise dick. Some even consider themselves ‘more’ gay as they have chosen to transition, not simply been born a gay man- in being completely serious.

It’s disheartening, frustrating and infuriating. It has made me loathe these gay ftms and sanctimonious ‘queer’ (who all by chance have normal cis bfs....) 20 something women who push this shit

Interesting article about this in OUT magazine

"Interesting"? It's just more anti-lesbian, anti-feminist junk.

Well said R61. It's not likely to have as much impact on older, established gays but for the young generation coming up it's going to be really difficult for them to have boundaries without being told they are evil transphobes. Lesbians have already been through this but it's going to ramp up for gay male teens.

r22, very well said.

And now Outsports is OFFICIALLY transjacked..not that the signs weren’t there before hand. They have colonised every org and closed off every way of objecting to their anti-science TWAW faith-based belief system that gaslights that even the most hulking brute with decades of male privilege and social advantage combined with a legacy of hormonal/skeletal advantage has no innate advantage over a natal female. It’s almost like this is coordinated..I doubt it is..but may as well be as we-gay men specifically —have been supine and cowardly. We need to fight the fuck back

Under new MA”AMagement

R67, I wonder if any of these dudes ever post unfiltered pics. The amount of blur on that one is just ridiculous.

That’s the last click Outsports gets from me. Shame on those two twats for selling the LGB (especially the L) out to the heterosexual AGP crossdresing fetishists such as their special star writer dOcToR Rachel McKinnon

The new front in the transwars is 'TEHM' or Trans Exclusionary Homosexual Male. Coming soon from tumblr to a trans activist near you. You're an exclusively same-sex attracted homosexual? Well strap in, bigot, because females have just self-identified into your dating pool and you will fuck their vaginas or you are TRANSPHOBIC!

Editor Memoree Joelle addresses lesbophobic, anti-AfterEllen article in "Out":

[quote]AfterEllen Was a Refuge for All Queer Women — Until It Wasn’t

That's the title of the article linked at R71. AfterEllen has always been for lesbian and bi women. It was literally stated in the title for most of its existence and has always been the focus. The whole point of the website was to focus on the under-represenation of lesbians and bi women in the media. It was never about queer anything. If the trans want their own site, why don't they start DetachedFromScience or PostReality or something like that?

That title is enraging, R72. Can you imagine the title "Ebony Was a Refuge for All Minority People-- Until It Wasn't"?

Um, no... Ebony was ALWAYS a magazine for black people, period. Deal with it.

How is it not obvious to everyone what is going on when MtTs are being put in charge of ALL the gay organizations? Do these idiots just think it's a coincidence? Are MtTs just so much better and more qualified than other gay people, especially women? The fact that they are just pushy as hell and have become professional victims that can't even be criticized is ridiculous. How do we restart the gay media and just let these assholes keep everything they've stolen because that's the only option I see anymore.

I mean, is AfterEllen literally the only lesbian media outlet fighting this? I think so. Will the other media just report the amazing progress women have made when all the MtTs win gold in the women's events at the Olympics? When will this shit end?

"When will this shit end?"

When the lawsuits start.

What enrages me is that we're not allowed to have exclusive gay male spaces anymore. Either it's 'gay as in the community, so let's rename it TGLBQ+ or queer and include everyone!" or it's "gay as in man/man, and trans men are men so you must include them too!" I'm tired of it. I want gay spaces to be gay in with other gay males, without having to worry about females or any non same-sex attracted males. I don't know, I'm not saying this very well, but I AM sick of it! Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say.

R76 yes it’s the double standard in ‘erasure’. The same people who call for everyone not straight to be referred to as the queer community and will say “what’s harmful in using a term that is inclusive of everyone?” Will then bend over backwards to make sure bisexuals are able to have their identity validated. You won’t hear them ranting at a bi person to say queer instead of bi. That’s a ‘sacred’ identity to them. People want labels, spaces specific for them. Simply not being ‘cis and straight’ isn enough to form a cohesive community most times.

Is there a lot of push by FtMs to get into gay male spaces or make gay guys fuck their male vaginas? (What is the actual equivalent to "girl dick"?) This seems to be a MtF thing.

R78 spend time of twitter and YouTube and you will see that it’s a thing. Clearly not as aggressive as they haven’t been socialised as males like mtfs and time really masc/aggressive ftms tend to be ‘straight’ (funny that).

R78 There has been a recent campaign to shame bathhouses who refused mALe-vaginas the right to flap around freely in gay male—and NAKED—spaces

R78 an increasing number of young women who are convinced that they are gay men post about their hurt feelings on tumblr (cis-gays who reject transmen are literal trash!).

It's the daftest thing I've ever seen. I'm wondering if some remedial sex ed would help. Perhaps flashcards.

" Will then bend over backwards to make sure bisexuals are able to have their identity validated. "

R77 Not really I'm bi and have been given hell for refusing to identify as "pan" because apparently being bi " refuses to aknowlege all genders".

Maybe we should start a war between trans and bi and we can have our gay world back?

R83 don’t be absurd. We don’t need a ‘war’ we just need more gay people (men especially) to stop pandering to this shit and tell the queers to fuck off and leave us alone. Build your own communities. Don’t shame and cajole us into leaving and destroying ours.

It does feel like the tide is starting to change a bit. AfterEllen will be on the right side of history when all is said and done.

R85 So were the Jews and how did that work out for them in the 1940s?

That's the weirdest comparison I've ever seen on DL, R86.

So, back to the tide starting to change...

The editor of After Ellen came out swinging at other LGBT sites yesterday on twitter.

Glad she boxes and is tough as shit!

The editor, Memoree Joelle (sp?) and another trans-critical lesbian, have bought After Ellen.

Memoree shows us what we're up against. Remember, it is your duty to include trans people in your sexuality.

" Duty!"

The TRAs sound awfully like sadistic Victorian patriarchs. "It is your duty, madam, to allow me to exercise my conjugal rights upon your person, which I bought lawfully in the church..."

I stopped reading afterellen when it became so protrans. Interesting to learn that that was only a phase. I'm going to start reading it now that those writers are gone. if it even exists in the future

R94, are you thinking of Autostraddle or something? AfterEllen has been getting attacked for speaking up for lesbians. I'm really glad that Memoree Joelle and her company, Lesbian Nation, bought the site. I was worried that a more corporate type owner would tamp down on the coverage of actual lesbians and replace it with all T, all the time like so many other sites have done.

Excellent! After Ellen is now the place to go for all your trans bashing needs. Knock yourselves out.

No r96. AfterEllen is now the true home of lesbians. To stand up for lesbians is not to bash trans, it's to stand up for good old same-sex attraction between women. Articles like this will not happen!

That article at R97 is so surreal. If anyone can translate this into reality, more power to ya!

[quote]These tips focus on sex with hands and mouths, since personally PIV sex is much harder on my dysphoria. And I know that not all trans women have penises, and that queer women can have sex with people with penises who aren’t trans women, but here I’ll be referring to women (trans or cis) having non-PIV sex with a trans women with a penis.

The part where they talk about how these trans "lesbians" have to be careful and use a condom to avoid pregnancy is especially hilarious.

That quote at R98 is giving me a migraine.

Okay, I'm ready for the right wing money behind TransPlanet to be exposed. I can't believe this is still going on.

Real women want to end the global epidemic of violence against women.

“Transwomen” want to increase it.

Now that AfterEllen has been bought by the unapologetically pro-lesbian company, do you think they're going to get attacked (cyber and otherwise) by the trans apologists even more than before? I hope they have good security on the site. We should try to direct people we know who are also pro-lesbian to the site to make sure it stays busy and gets the support it deserves for standing up for lesbians and gays in general.

[quote] You won’t hear them ranting at a bi person to say queer instead of bi. That’s a ‘sacred’ identity to them.

As a bisexual I copied and pasted this statement so I could make the same point that I later saw R82 did. Bisexuals are indeed currently harassed not to use the phrase “bisexual” but rather “pansexual”, as “bisexual” is considered transphobic.

Further, bisexuals are considered transphobic because if they want to date men and women without gender dysphoria - aka XY men and XX women - this is considered bigoted as apparently bisexuals lack discrimination anyway so should just accept penises on transwomen and vulvas on transmen.

I actually am attracted to people at peace with their bodies and genitals and it’s coercive to push me to date people I’m not attracted to, just like it’s coercive to push lesbians to date people with penises, or to push men to date people with vulvas.

Out decides that AfterEllen should suck it up and suck the shenis (or ladydick, if you prefer).

I could only skim that article at r104. Nauseating. Has everyone lost their collective mind??

Meanwhile, in Illinois, it's being reported today that a "gay rights organization", Equality Illinois, is fighting a proposed law that would keep doctors and parents from trans-ing children. Every single report I've heard has said "gay rights organization". So, basically, 'gay' now has no meaning.

And, a question...how can these organizations fight against gay conversion therapy but then fight for the surgical and chemical conversion of gay kids into 'trans' kids? What's the number, something like 90% of non-gender conforming children end up being gay when they become adults? Too bad there aren't any more actual gay organizations to point that out.

I was just reading an article on lesbian trailblazers and, as I scrolled down, I kept waiting for the inevitable inclusion of at least three different Ts. It didn't happen because the article is on AfterEllen. I found it so strange that I've become so used to these men being front-and-center in articles about lesbians that I was literally surprised by their absence.

R107 inspired me to look up Wikipedia’s page about women;

[quote]A woman is a female human being. The word woman is usually reserved for an adult, with girl being the usual term for a female child or adolescent. The plural women is also sometimes used for female humans, regardless of age, as in phrases such as "women's rights". Women with typical genetic development are usually capable of giving birth from puberty until menopause. There are also trans women (those who have a male sex assignment that does not align with their gender identity),[1] and intersex women (those born with sexual characteristics that do not fit typical notions of male or female).

OMG, look at Martina's latest tweet!

R106: Your conspiracy theory is boring. Get a life.

Martina Navratilova is a true hero.

Has she ever been awarded the Woman of the Year award?

She should. Especially since “Caitlyn” got one.

R110, so you're for the erasure of everything gay and/or female and in favor of trans-ing children. T aren't gay. MtT aren't women. There are no lesbian men. Any reason they can't form their own rights' group instead of glomming onto the gay and feminist groups? I notice you aren't good at answering questions but give it a shot.

4th Wave Now announced that Gallus Mag has a new site, gendertrending.com, but it's down. I wonder if some laydee in IT did DDOS attack.

R113, the site is back up now.

I saw that yesterday & wondered the same thing r113.

If so, I hope they prosecute whoever did it

I’m all for trans and gender non-conforming breaking off and starting their own acronym. I can’t handle it. Go away.

Technically being gay is gender nonconforming.

We are neither cis nor T.

AfterEllen DID go through a trans-inclusive phase but it was a few years ago now. It was never Autostraddle “how to have lesbian sex with a penis” level, but more gentle trans mentions. I distinctly remember because I stopped visiting the site at that time. More recently it’s been getting more ardently pro-actual-lesbian and now they’re all-out trans exclusive, so they will get my clicks now.

Petition for gay men supporting lesbians and women’s rights:

Look at the ratio on this Dustin Lance Black post:

Annnnnd... Rachel McKinnon got tenure.

DLB is a hack who has gay blood on our hands.

His hands

Omg awesome r120

Now I can finally admit I hate [italic]Star Trek[/italic] in any incarnation.

Lesley Jordan too

Then you can go ahead and cancel [italic]The Cool Kids[/italic] and get rid of the whole damn Fox Network now that Disney owns the actual studio.

Dustin Lance Hack is a hypocrite. He thinks men should be allowed to steal the mantle of womanhood from women ... until they need a real woman to act as a surrogate.

Exactly, r128...male supremacy in action.

Trans women are women!

OK. Good luck getting an MtF to birth your next child, Dustin Lance.

If trans “women” are women and real women want to be men, then why do we need any women, real or fake?

Stupid real women with their stupid biology, an MtF could easily beat them at the Olympics and doesn’t bleed for a quarter of the time.

Oh, but if any gay guys want surrogate children then they might have to use a feeble womb-bearer and afterwards sign a letter giving away other people’s rights.

Fuck off Dustin, yeah?

Why aren’t transwomen naked all over the internet? Straight men love naked women.

If transwomen were women, they’d be stripping in every city.

So why aren’t they?

They are, uh, "artfully draped," R133.

Out of curiosity...I googled naked transwomen.

Yeah... it’s impossible to change sex. Transwomen are men.

Women don’t have cocks & balls. They don’t get erections. They don’t shoot sperm. They can’t impregnate.

Everyone knows that trans women aren’t actually women. However many times you demand that we pretend males are females, the fact is that not giving, say, prostate screens to trans women or cervical cancer screens to trans men will kill people, because it turns out biology is actually relevant.

Being polite and pretending that trans women were women as a courtesy was fine and I went along with it, but apparently, it wasn’t enough and now we have Rachel McKinnon and “lesbian sex” involving dicks. Is this stupidity nearly over yet, please? On this topic I find straight men often more sensible than gay guys, hugely depressingly, because at least their c*cks will tell them what is and isn’t a woman, or, less crudely, because some of them love women and have them as partners, then they are better-placed to understand what’s at stake. Some gay guys have been fantastic allies but others are just calling lesbians TERFs etc because they don’t see why female-only spaces matter, for example, and it’s awful to see.

Wow. Just saw this thread... I have to ask, are many actual women (born female) posting on this thread - or is it just a bunch of me (born male) posting?

As a female (born female) and a lesbian (born lesbian) I will say this-

There isn’t one person on this earth that will ever be able to convince me that trans women mtf are women. They are not women, they will never be a women - I will never refer to any mtf as a women. Or any ftm as a man.

I’ve had enough of this delusional thinking.

I’ve had enough of people pushing this agenda and trying to force feed this nonsense on the gay community.

I’m a lesbian too, R137 and sick and tired of this trans nonsense. Privately, I know many lesbians are, but often can’t say so publicly or trans rights activists will go crazy on them (this is a real thing that actually happens, by the way).

If AfterEllen are now following their change of ownership taking an editorial view to push back against everything trans in favor of actual homosexuals, then they have my full support.

R138 - I hope that’s the case. We need our community and real sisters back. The trans situation, with them hyjacking everything with a LBG has gotten out of control.

I hope so too, I really do, R137/R139. I am no longer active in my local LGBT community because it was “trans-jacked.” I have lesbian friends who feel the same way and we just meet and associate away from the “community” that’s been taken over by fetishists who want to call us names for actually being gay. Lesbians are self-excluding but I do take heart a little from people like Martina Navratilova standing up to this stuff now.

'Queer' lost me when it became about bullying gay women for the crime of embodying the words female homosexual. Our community's more hostile to lesbians than straight people - it's ridiculous. Straight men in drag gaslighting gay women into fucking them is ridiculous. Gnc men in homeless womens' shelters is sadistic.

The Equality Act V 2019 was rolled out two days ago to great fanfare by the Democrats.

This is the act that will erase both gays and women by redefining the word "sex" to include "gender identity." Gays (same-sex attracted people) and women will cease to exist as a legal category and a lot of legislation passed to guarantee their rights will go bye-bye and they will be incapable of organizing for their own specific needs.

It will also open up every women's space to biological men. As well, women will be forced, for instance, to be pat down by a biologically male TSA agent.

All to say that it's time to get off this board and get on the phone. Call Congress - every single one of those fuckers, call journalists and call (former) gay organizations, especially the All-Trans-All-The-Time Human Rights Campaign, because those (former) gay organizations are the one pushing for the destruction of gays (and women).

State that you are gay. Make clear that if the Democrats push the Equality Act through it's not in the name of the L and the G.

Does this new and unimproved Equality Act dispense with women's stated preferences for female nurses and doctors in favor of the need for narcissists to do their LARPing-as-women in gynecologist's offices? Because that's going to keep a whole lot of actual women from accessing healthcare.

R143, I work at a hospital where I happen to know that a ob-gyn oncologist presents as female but is actually male.

If you search our website’s physician directory for female ob-gyn oncos, his name comes up. Of course, he changed his name & appearance to female.

But he is male. And listed as female on our website directory. So if someone prefers a female ob-gyn onco, they may actually pick him. Even though they wanted a woman.

I think of a lot of trans people as people who were rejected all through their lives---for whatever reasons: appearing too butch or femme, cross-dressing, being interested in 'opposite gender activities,' and other aspects of their personalities and beings that somehow attracted negative attention, bullying, and being made to feel marginal. From this isolation and loneliness grows a feeling that things would be so much better on the other side of the fence. I have no idea what makes a guy think life is going to be better as a woman; women are a world-wide sub-class, and being able to wear more clothes and play with the accessories of fashion doesn't make up for the way women are treated. 'Becoming a woman' doesn't magically open doors of acceptance, and to imagine one will be accepted as a 'real woman' by society is just opening doors to a whole new kind of rejection. (Women who'd prefer to be men is a little easier to understand, since men have the upper hand in pretty much all societies in the world.)

Trans people need to be able to live and work in peace. I believe in civil/human rights for all people. But no one can demand love or sexual attraction from another person. It is no one's DUTY to fuck you, in ANY identity or incarnation. (I'm not saying all trans people demand this from others. Some MtF trans people have their former hetero wives stand by them and remain married, so they do live that 'lesbian' life they sought.) But transitioning doesn't seem to give some people what they hoped for, and so they try to force it.

Unfortunately, those who do demand this sexual/romantic acceptance of their trans status are lined up to continue to be rejected by many people who are simply not attracted to them. DEMANDING acceptance gets one attention on the interwebs, but it still doesn't result in the type of love/sexual acceptance that is craved.

The type of activism that is prevalent today (online) makes a lesser number of screaming outliers seem more numerous and powerful than they are. AfterEllen should continue to write for and about the stated target audience: lesbians. Individually, everyone just has to say yes or no to whomever wishes to 'date' them. Your reasons are your reasons, and no one can force you into a relationship you're not into.

This is just my take on the inter-personal stuff. The usurping women's spaces and fields of challenge is another huge subject.

R145, I personally think most MTFs are straight men embodying a sex fetish.

I absolutely believe these men are in it for sexual reasons only...not just cross-dressing, but they want to conquer where they are not allowed...women’s restrooms, showers, dressing rooms, dorms, prisons, sports teams, etc. That by itself excites them.

They get off on it. Their dicks get hard when they put on a dress. Make no mistake that they will jerk off in stalls. They will surreptitiously peek & even record women in undress & vulnerable.

Allowing them in is like allowing peeping toms to spy through windows & drill holes to see through doors without permission.

Heck, maybe V will be added to LBTQIA+ to be inclusive of voyeurs.

Oh, and don’t forget the exhibitionists...another sex fetish. I saw a “transwoman” flash his underwear at church. In a pew. That was a couple years ago. I see him on lesbian dating apps, but not at church lately. Guess he didn’t score on any chicks at my church & decided to move on. Perhaps he should try the Methodists next.

Ever see the movie “Porky’s”...? Men secretly spying women in group showers is a popular male fantasy. In fact, it’s why porn is so popular.

The Philes are taking over and ruining it.

They Came for AfterEllen.

Datalounge has allowed the anti-trans alt-Right shit here for years. It’s time for it to clean up its act and take some responsibility.

DL is no different than 4chan.

R149, it's called pro-gay reality, dear. It's also called self-defense.

R147 A female friend told me the same thing after dating a MTF.

Once upon time one would see these sad creatures lurking at your local lesbian bar, these schlubby middle-aged heterosexual males, fetishists who believed that they were women simply because they got a stiffy whenever they put on their wife’s control-top pantyhose. At some point a compassionate person made the mistake of endorsing these men’s delusional beliefs instead of showing them the nearest exit, and now here we fucking are 30 - 40 years later: lesbian bars are virtually extinct. Meanwhile men in dresses and craptastic eyeliner are infesting LGB dating apps, running all the gay orgs, editing major gay publications, and kicking out actual honest-to-God pelt-licking lesbians from Pride for not co-signing their unutterably insane porn-addled bullshit.

I’m embarrassed for my fellow gay men for selling our lesbian sisters down the river like this.

Truth r154 👊

R154 Oh please straight women embrace this total shit more than any other group and push it unendingly

I think trans needs to learn not to be so hostile all the time. It’s exhausting.

R145 I agree. What us abundantly clear but what no one wants to talk about is that the vast majority of trans people have been sexually abused as young kids. To the point where their sense of self was totally destroyed. There us a deep self loathing underneath it all. They are profundly disordered personalities and some of them don't have boundaries when it comes to sex and consent. They believe other people can slip their identity on and off like a glove because they have no stable idea of self. They shouldn't be discriminated against, obviously. But to allow people with such a clear mental and emotional instability to dictate the definition of " Normal" to society is foolish and dangerous. They need help.

What R153 said. I can remember the first time I met male pervert in a lesbian bar (the now closed Candy Bar in London). He wanted to show me the “titties” he had grown from oestrogen, and was dressed as a schoolgirl with a wig in fake pigtails. Not making this up. I declined the offer to look at his boobs.

Little did I think that in the not so distant future a lesbian not agreeing to consider such a person as a potential sexual partner would be called a bigot and hounded out of Pride.

R159 why is it always a fucking schoolgirl with pigtails? So creepy.

....

Ugh! R159, that’s so fucking gross. I’ve never forgotten the first time I saw one of these dudes in a bar. I asked my gf who the man in the terrible wig was and why was he here (I was really young and stupid and had never heard of, let alone laid eyes on, a cross-dressing straight man). She told me he was ‘harmless’. At the time I thought he was just a lonely eccentric old man and that this was an isolated thing... like I said, I was young and stupid!

....

An obsessive women- hating T got Vancouver city council to stop funding a women's rape crisis center. Brain-dead "progressive" women sided with him and voted against funding.

R162 I think we all went through that at the beginning. My initial reaction even to that obvious gross perv was that well, he’s a weirdo, but he can’t do that much harm, and he must be an outlier. “No-one will take him seriously.” It was one of my first encounters with the modern “trans” person and up to that point I had thought, oh right, “trapped in the wrong body”, “female brain” etc etc, it must be really difficult for them. I hadn’t appreciated that it could be a fetish and that the line between cross-dressers and trans would basically be erased entirely.

My naïveté on that score has since been well and truly destroyed... Whilst I’m not sure the dressing as a schoolgirl thing would get much support from anyone, I’m meant to think that person is a woman if they say so despite the fact they’re clearly a fucking perverted guy (transage, ridiculous; transracial, offensive; transgender is LITERALLY THE SEX THAT THEY SAY THEY ARE WITH NO DISTINCTIONS blah blah blah).

R164 any link to that?

I’m not R164 but here’s a link. Apparently they think they will have enough from private donations and will not change their policies, good for them.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

D R A M A

Martina commented on Twitter about how awful the defunding of the Vancouver women's shelter was. I'd be very surprised if she did not contribute to keeping it open.

What is shocking is that the transgender person in R168 post has been released into the community, despite the fact that it clearly has every intention to continue to attack young girls. What a flaccid justice system the UK has.

More about Vancouver rape center funding cut

"the loss of city funding (a result of trans activist bullying"

more info here - Ts have targeted it for years. Pure hatred of women...and we are supposed to say they are women...

This is a good thread, too.

Stupid Canada (by the way, this was not discussed in Canada before it became law..Beware Americans!)

I'm sure notorious homophobe Sophia Banks is delighted to hear that the Vancouver council voted to cut off funding to the shelter.

Stupid American lawmakers - I honestly don't think that all the rah-rah Democrats blathering on about the Equality Act have read it, because if they had they would know that it is political suicide.

The US press too - deafening silence.

So it's up to us to kick up a stink about the Equality Act.

Sadly, the change of the law of the word "sex" to include "gender identity" has happened already in many states, and also, there are court cases pending that would also change "sex" to include "gender identity" so by the time Americans realize what has happened, the Transgender takeover of the US will be a fait accompli.

I ask you, what lesbian can resist a "DICK MAMA" knuckles tattoo?

There are links to donate in R172's link for any of you with the means to do so. There is one for Canadians and one that might work for Americans a few posts later. I hope they get a hundred times the amount that's being taken away from them in donations.

What will be said when one of these rape victims is raped again in the shelter she sought for protection? I hate these people.

I just donated. Morgane Oger is such a vile little creep.

Nice to see funding cut. That will help save taxpayers money or that money could be put to better use. Spend it on a statue of Harvey Milk.

Really, R181? I think Harvey would be appalled.

Elton John then, R182.

A statue of a white cis gay man? Are you being serious! A statue of black trans Marsha P. Johnson who managed to start Stonewall and the whole gay liberation movement even though she turned up to the Stonewall riots half way through on her own admission (thought the mad trans ignore that)

And we ask ourselves was Marsha trans or was she a drag queen? The transgenderists love transing historical figures

So long as it isn't a statue of a cis white woman I'm happy.

R185 hates women...except transwomen.

More proof that transwomen are men, and that TRAs & MRAs are one & the same.

FRA = FISH RIGHTS ACTIVIST

I didn't realise parents were forcing their gay sons to wear gential constricting underwear. This is disturbing and indefensible.

Americans have organized to save women's sports, forming an organization called, you guessed it "Save Women's Sports"

In the UK, the organization is Fair Play for Women, which has a lot of information on not just women's sports, but also how the Transgender Lobby has destroyed women's rights.

What I will never get is why the Transgender Rights Activists are so fucking narcissistic that they can't see that kicking women out of their own competitions will lead to even dopey "men's men" like Joe Rogan start to question their movement. Like Martina, it will start with average people being "WTF?" about men like the Cyclopath taking over women's sports, which will then lead to them questioning the entire Transgender Movement.

Sad that it took athletics to wake people up to the threat to women's rights, but at least they're waking up.

Thanks, R174. I just donated. For those who are interested, you can get there directly with the link below. I did The Paypal and it converted my donation from US to Canadian dollahs. You can use a credit card, too.

r185 = angry tranny with vagina envy

But, R185, how would you know it's a "cis white woman" since, to you, there is no discernible difference? From this point forward, I declare that all statues are of "cis white women" and there's nothing you can do to prove me wrong.

CIS women are the best. That's why trannies want to be them.

Wow R188 that needs to be seen by as many people as possible. It really lays out how warped the agenda is. Those parents have not just been brainwashed, they have become desensitized to the normal feelings (disgust, disquiet) it should engender when anyone suggests making silicone sex organs for toddlers to wear.

Good lord, the parents quoted in that GenderTrending article at R188 are one huge toxic ball of Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

Gay boys being forced to transition is sad. Those parents are homophobes. But people who have being living in men's bodies for forty, fifty, sixty years really know what they are inside. That's why their transitions are to be admired.

R196 Gee, what fucking bullshit.

Gay boys being forced to transition isn't good for Gays.

Grown men becoming women is good for Gays.

R198 Splitting your cock does not make them a woman, it makes them a deformed mutant

Yes, it does, R199. 😊

Really disgusting to see as a gay man the left reject science, ignore common sense, and turn on us homosexuals. My experience with the transgendered is that they are quickly prone to violent rage.

Any Transwoman who doesn't have her penis and testicles removed is hedging her bets. She's not REALLY serious about being a woman.

No excuses about "gender is in the brain". Chop 'em.

I used to be anti-trans. I thought it was a homophobic response to Gay Men. Then I began to understand the distinction between the different types of transwomen: The gay men who are often forced into transitioning to become straight women (this practice I oppose) and the straight men who often transition late in life and mock and humiliate women (this practice I support).

These creepy parents at R188 are bragging about their young sons being "well endowed" and how to get the right trans underwear for them

Another is getting trans underwear for a 6 year old who has not expressed any of the trans stuff. "It was my choice. She couldn't care less."

Child abuse!

I hope some of the gay men on here will put R203 in his place because I know he won't listen to any women.

I hope some of the women on here will put [R205] in her place because I know she won't listen to any Gay Men.

Since he’ll listen to transwomen, r205, it proves that TRANSWOMEN ARE MEN.

Try and prove it all you like, R207, but TRANSWOMEN ARE WOMEN.

Transwomen are women like I'm a mermaid. You can put udders on a bull it won't make milk.

Trans women are men. You could dig their bodies up 100 years after death and you’ll find a male skeleton. Sorry.

The transright movement is good for Gay Men. I don't want it to be associated with us. But I want it to happen. I support Drop the T and those brave and inspirational Connecticut athletes from that recent thread.

Could someone from the UK explain what being "under caution" from the police means? Is it just the cops informing you that a complaint was made against you or are there other implications?

I've seen this phrase in other articles by British feminists and lesbians and it sounded in some cases like they were telling the women to stop saying or tweeting what she believed to be true under threat of arrest.

Martina retweeted this

Has the BC NDP apologized for any of this.?

❤️ Martina 👊

Martina has definitely reached Peak Trans.

Martina also retweeted a post about how transwomen lord it over transmen. She's all in.

Gay Men should get to work on making sure Martina is deplatformed.

Manly, unattractive women are the most virulently transphobic. It's because they know transwomen are a threat. They're scared -- and they should be. Caitlyn Jenner looks like a feminine Cindy Crawford.

Martina is too famous and powerful for your deplatforming shit, R218. You finally met your match.

F&F R220 for that homophobic gif.

Ciswomen need to know their place. TransWomen can show it to them.

And cis women will be waiting for them.

You’re ..... not quite right in the head are you r222? Something a bit “off”? The voices tell you things?

I'm not trans but the voices in my head tell me I am. Time to harass a women's shelters or beauty technicians into waxing my bàlls with the full backing of the Canadian government.

Those waxers who that one asshole sued for not plucking his balls should have said, "Well, of course we'll service you madam but we don't do balls so..." while clicking a giant pair of garden shears.

How about we just start breaking everything down by "innies" and "outies"? Let the idiotification of society reach its zenith.

R223 is threatening violence. Webmaster.

R226 I would think "we don't do balls" would be good enough. The presence of the anatomy is an objective fact, regardless of the gender identity of the person. No vendor is obliged to provide a service to someone because of gender identity if it is a serve they don't provide to anyone.

Time to FF the troll trying to derail the thread.

R230's idea of the thread is for it to be a lesbian circle jerk of hate.

#GayMenstandwithtranswomen

#GayMenStandWithLesbianSisters

How does that help Gay Men, R232?

Gay men stand with their lesbian sisters and not with homophobic transtapos who claim gay people are "transphobic" because they don't want to fuck you.

[quote]who claim gay people are "transphobic" because they don't want to fuck you.

It isn't gay people though; it's only lesbians.

Can anyone actually explain how standing with lesbians helps Gay Men?

Remember trans activists think gay men are really women on the inside. It’s an inherently homophobic and misogynistic movement.

[quote]Remember trans activists think gay men are really women on the inside.

I'm opposed to the sort of erasure of Gay Men to transgenderism as in Iran and Apartheid South Africa. In those cases it's usually young boys being forced to become 'fixed' as straight women. But there's nothing homophobic in the Caitlyn Jenner type of transwomen.

So you can be opposed to children being forced to puberty blockers and support middle-aged men deciding they are women.

[quote]misogynistic movement.

Don't care.

Is there a single lezbian who can tell Gay Men why we should care with making it about 'womyn' and 'misogyny'?

What a relentless troll, isn’t it time to dilate or something

Seems like proof that lezbians ultimately know that Gay Men have no incentive to care about them and their transhate issue.

R 236 really? You can't see how the political oppression of same sex attracted women might have an effect on homosexual men? You don't see the crossover in that ven diagram? You must be stupid as well as a troll.

Aside from that we should be consistent in our defense of human rights for ALL as citizens of a free country and human beings.

[quote]You can't see how the political oppression of same sex attracted women might have an effect on homosexual men? You don't see the crossover in that ven diagram?

No. That sounds like something a sixty-something in Montana might say. We know that lezbians don't like being lumped in with trans, so why would you assume Gay Men like being lumped in with lezbians?

They're all totally different.

We need to find a way to publically humiliate trannies so that everyone sees them for the clowns they are. No mercy.

I wouldn’t even bother trying to get through to the troll attempting to derail this thread. He’s clearly a misogynistic twat and frankly, there’s no hope for the likes of him.

'Twat'? Are you English? Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to why TERFness is so much bigger there than in the US?

[quote]I wouldn’t even bother trying to get through to the troll attempting to derail this thread. He’s clearly a misogynistic twat and frankly, there’s no hope for the likes of him.

Conceding that there's no case to be made for why Gay Men should support lezbians over transwomen.

[quote]We need to find a way to publically humiliate trannies so that everyone sees them for the clowns they are. No mercy.

Would be tough. Lezbians aren't known for their self-awareness and ability to work together.

And while you were all bashing Cindy Brady, Mr. Sulu actually sold us out.

Yes r227.

Innies bathrooms have tampons.

Outies bathrooms have urinals.

Use the bathroom that matches your plumbing.

R244– post their nude photos.

Cosmetic surgery, make-up & clothes are deceptive.

Drop their drawers & let’s see their big hard penises shooting.

Nude women are everywhere. If transwomen are really women, their nudes should be everywhere too.

But nude photos of the average lezbian would be just as horrific, R251.

R246 not the poster you replied to but I guess we are just smarter here.

Lol R252 far from dysphoria, autogynephile trans have a weird kind of reverse body dysmorphia where they think that they not only pass but are gorgeous and everyone (straight men, gay men, lesbians, probably even straight women) wants to fuck them. It’s a sight to behold. You can hate lesbians all you want, you’ll find they increasingly don’t care. They’re real women at the end of the day whereas MtFs never will be.

"Lol [R252] far from dysphoria, autogynephile trans have a weird kind of reverse body dysmorphia where they think that they not only pass but are gorgeous and everyone (straight men, gay men, lesbians, probably even straight women) wants to fuck them."

Disagree. Straight men who identify as transwomen know they hardly pass to anyone, and from what I've observed, that's part of the turn-on: forcing others, especially women, to state something they do not believe. Gay trans-identified males primp and preen constantly, because they are trying to please those who are higher on the food chain: straight males. But if those same straight males identify as trans, they "let themselves go" because THEY CAN.

R252, you mean like Samantha Fox?

Your turn. Show me nudes of Janet Mock or Laverne Cox or Caitlyn or Stef-on-knee or Ana Arriola

And str8 TIMs still make up excuses to cockblock gay men.

Gay women supported gay men in crisis in the AIDS era. Likely a gay black woman who threw the first brick at Stonewall and a bisexual woman came up with the idea for pride. Lesbians are gay and if its a gay man throwing these women to the autogynephile wolves he's nobody I want eating at my table.

R229, ideally that is the logical thing that should happen. However, those women got in legal trouble because they wouldn't wax some guy's balls.

And, is spelling lesbian with a 'z' supposed to be an insult or can the idiot troll just not spell?

Amy Dyess is so ambitious.

Marsha P Johnson did not throw the first brick. She joined the riot about a half an hour after they started and we know this because she admitted it.

R261 He, Marsha identified and stated many times he was a gay man. So, please, to use tranny language, respect how he identified

Awesome r260!

I love it.

We are not alone!

The latest Jazz thread has been killed

What a surprise, R264. Jazz is now an adult so I’m not sure why facts about him can’t be discussed.

A philosophy magazine, 3 AM, has been shut down by its owner after one of its respected writers did an interview with *GASP* a gender-critical philosopher and the Transtapo launched their usual assault.

Open University forced to cancel conference following threats from the transgender lobby

(I have never seen so much censorship in my life. And for what? Crossdressers??)

Was the DL search engine changed to make it harder to find and bump threads?

For a good perspective on white male privilege, all you have to do is compare this bullshit movement of solely white males and the quick and overwhelming response it has gotten with similar protests by women, minorities, and gays over the last two centuries whose fights are still being fought to this day.

R154, this straight woman doesn't. However, it is a split amongst my friends sadly. I am vocal with them about what is happening to lesbians, women in domestic violence shelters and prisons. I won't be silenced.

A lot don't seem to care. When a point is introduced that conflicts with the propaganda they have been fed, they get angry at you and they cannot dispute what you have said. They can't say anything and then they don't want to talk about it. These are "liberal/SJW" women.

[quote]But nude photos of the average lezbian would be just as horrific, [R251].

Not to other women in bathrooms, locker rooms, hospital rooms, prisons ... People with penises have no idea and don't seem to care why women feel safer where penises are not allowed. Doesn't matter if the penis owner calls himself 'her' or wears lipstick.

Lib fems really are mindless saps: Here's another Vancouver rape shelter just HORRIFIED that people all over the world are coming to the aid of Vancouver Rape Relief.

WAVAW Rape Crisis Center enters the fray to castigate all those evil TERFs and rape survivor sympathizers helping to fund a penis-free space for women victimized by penises.

These women call themselves feminists and think they're all brave and noble and shit, but they are actually handmaidens to violent, misogynistic, heterosexual, middle-aged, relatively wealthy, delusional, narcissistic white men with penises.

[quote] IT IS TIME FOR THE ANTI-VIOLENCE SECTOR TO PUSH BACK AGAINST TRANSMISOGYNY In the last week, we have witnessed and experienced an increase of transphobic, transmisogynistic hate speech online and backlash in response to a recent funding decision made by the City of Vancouver. As a trans-inclusive anti-violence organization, we feel a sense of responsibility to provide a counter-narrative to this trans-exclusionary radical feminism. It’s no secret that there is a long, difficult history between feminism and trans people. This history is rooted in the right wing ideology that queer and trans people and their issues are somehow oppositional to the issues of cisgender women and feminism as a whole. This conflict often shows up in the realm of gender-specific spaces, in shelters and anti-violence organizations. Feminism has been used as a means of spreading hatred against trans people, particularly trans women, and has co-opted the anti-violence movement to implicitly and explicitly exclude trans women. It’s difficult for WAVAW to grapple with this history, especially as feminists doing anti-violence work. This is especially true as trans-exclusionary radical feminism is alive and well in Vancouver; it’s no secret that we’re working amongst a hotbed of transmisogyny that has a global reach.

R273, I'm a liberal feminist and the OP of this thread and all of that is complete bullshit as far as I'm concerned. What you are describing is third wave feminists, not liberal feminists. The AfterEllen group and the UK lesbians fighting the T every single day are liberal feminists.

R274, modern Lib fems (also referred to as 3rd Wave or Fun feminists) are the Trans-Maidens. They are basically Men's Rights Activists in female form due to some heavy-duty gaslighting by Judith Butler and the Gender Studies/ Queer Theory crowd starting in the 1990s. Modern lib fems are pro pornography, pro BDSM, pro-prostitution as empowering, very pro-Trans. See R273 for an example.

2nd wave feminists, gender-critical and radical feminists (which overlap) are the ones fighting the Transgender Lobby's nonsense, along with every other person with a modicum of sense.

Sometimes people get confused, like R274 seems to be, because they assume 'liberal feminist' has something to do with being politically liberal. It sounds like they would be but they are quite different and unrelated. So I am a liberal, but NOT a liberal feminist.

This will be the last post I make on this thread.

I just want to say I'm quite sad that the Webmaster hasn't closed it. It's sad that there is such a streak of homophobia running through the self-congratulatory anti-trans community. It's sad that it's allowed on this website; and I'm sure makes others as much as me less likely to engage on this website.

The anti-trans zealots are also anti-drag and anti-porn. Increasingly, it's becoming clear to us -- the primary group on this website -- that anti-trans dislike us too, perhaps because we refuse to go along with their hate and all it entails (e.g. anti Democrat, pro Republican; threats of violence against transwomen's genitals using shears). I'm talking to them. I want us to work together and create a positive community.

Transwomen are a tiny, tiny proportion of the total population. They're greatly outnumbered by their haters. They're an oppressed minority, and despite how loud the transhaters are I don't think they speak for most of Datalounge. We know transwomen are allies and that transhate should be eradicated from this board.

R277 you're full of it. Transwomen are men. Men make up 50% of the population.

Men are not an oppressed minority.

R277 you side with people that attack Martina Navratilova.

R277, video at link shows transgender women attacking males and females.

Transgender Woman sprays unknown substance in series of attacks, police launch hate crime investigation

^woman

Exactly re posts above, “liberal feminist” has a particular meaning. It doesn’t mean a person whose politics are liberal who is also a feminist. OP, if you started this thread, you aren’t a lib fem and good for you.

I just say gender critical feminists, it clarifies the viewpoint that feminism is about equality not validating male fantasy or kowtowing to MRA bullshit.

Lesbians just don’t sexually assault women the way those with penises do. That’s why even if straight women don’t like them, they don’t care so much about them in their spaces. Lesbians might be attracted to straight women but they don’t leer at them and they don’t assault them. Males do this, yes a small number, yes mostly “cis”, but we have seen time and again that saying you’re a woman doesn’t stop some people with penises being creeps.

I think it’s time to get back to basics on this whole thing anyway. Let’s have a bathroom / locker room for those with dicks and one for those with vag and we can include neovag out of the goodness of women’s hearts. Don’t care what you call yourself but go in the bathroom that matches your equipment.

True, r269.

Blacks literally risked jail, fire hoses, & lynchings just to end segregation & be able to vote in the 1960s. And are we fully integrated now? No, we are not. Can blacks easily vote? Nope. All kinds of roadblocks are in place to dissuade them.

Yet straight white men who like to dress as society’s stereotype of women are Oppression Olympics gold medalists. All in just a few fucking years.

Meanwhile, gays are still bashed & females are still killed — and gay & feminist orgs are not advocating for us, they are actually advocating against us.

The Ts not only ended MichFest, they also proudly shut down a rape clinic in Canada.

And tranny Dana Rivers murdered two lesbians & their son...without a peep from gay & feminist orgs.

If people can’t see Ts as the Trojan Horse they are, then people are idiots.

Oh bullshit r277.

There is a global epidemic of violence against women.

Opening women’s spaces to men who like to impersonate women will not reduce violence against women. It will increase it.

Fuck you for trying to eliminate our survival instinct. Women deserve safety & privacy from men. It’s impossible to change sex.

Anyone who welcomes men into women’s spaces are enabling the increase of violence against women.

Sorry r285 but I don’t want to share a dressing room with a man who cut off his penis & testicles.

R269 and R286 make great points. Trans is a white men’s movement, which is why it has been so successful, so quickly.

The Dana Rivers thing is incredible and total proof of the points everyone makes. I will be so glad when trans is dropped as the “human rights struggle” of our age.

Those lovely lads, all white by the way, the Trans-Activist group the Degenderettes, are now selling axes in Trans-flag colors!

Lest we forget, it was the Degenderettes who last year put up the exhibit in the San Francisco public library that had baseball bats, one covered in barb wire, with which they wanted to bash women.

Some of the gentle Twans R277 is white-knighting, are hoping that the axes will reach them in time for London Pride. Unfortunately, London Pride has banned any lesbian who only wants real pussy, so who knows who the Twans will find to use the axes on?

I'm predicting gay men are next because some of those T "men" are getting pretty rangy with all that testosterone coursing through their veins.

More proof that the Twans are such gentle men...

[quote] The headline act of a transgender event in Dundee has pulled out after calling on people to “throat-punch” radical feminists.

Peyton Rose, a transgender singer-songwriter from Edinburgh who was to top the bill at the Trans Pride Scotland event in Dundee next week, posted the tweet last Friday.

Above an image of a leaflet distributed last summer by For Women Scotland, a women’s rights group, she wrote: “If you catch one of these assholes in the act, please undo their work or throat-punch them.”

Violence against women is so HOT right now!

You can’t trust the Trans. They are violent mysogenists and that is clear.

TRA = MRA

Wolves in sheep’s clothing

It's all death and rape threats, get someone fired, censorship, over and over again. Who else is allowed to talk and act like that? And still get 100% government, media, and "academia" support?

Giving them axes seems like a bad idea.

And when you tell people about the outrageous actions of the Transgender Lobby they look at you like you're the one who is nuts, because the Trans Lobby has done such an amazing job of painting the poor, widdle "Just want to peeeeee" trans as the Victimist Victims that ever Victimed.

Hundreds of millions of dollars from Soros, Pritzker, Rothblatt and the pharmaceutical lobby among others, to do this. Obviously there's big money to be made from the puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and endless surgeries, but there's a bigger endgame in destabilizing society worldwide so that the words "woman" and "man" are meaningless (and "gay" for that matter) so what's the endgame?

The endgame is no women's rights, no gay existence, and child exploitation

R160 Because they're straight men, and straight men have basic fantasies and no fashion sense.

I have no interest in supporting the delusions of straight men in dresses and eyeliner. Own your own shit, trannies.

Remember trans women’s penises are biologically female

You may be living as a woman, and that’s fine, but if you were born a male you will always be male underneath it all. Sorry.

So, everyone’s (supposedly) talking about this trans porn performer with a huge dick, and this, from the Daily Dot article, jumped out at me: “This doesn’t take away from her womanhood, either; she’s ridiculously femme and adorable…”

That’s what womanhood is to them: being ridiculously femme and adorable. They can’t even comprehend feminism, yet they’re all “feminists.”

Being a woman is so performative to them.

Why is womanface acceptable but not black face

What R298 said.

Having a disorder that makes you think you’re a woman doesn’t make you a woman.

Another new lesbian site:

R301 This narrative about female penises and trying to convince lesbians they should just accept them is so sick. Sorry but specific genitalia are part of the sexual attraction and even if a person would look like Michael Fassbender but had a vagina I would just opt out.

Google launches Gender Emojis

the emojis will include the international gesture for transgenderism

(Have you noticed Tech/Corporate/Govt is pushing this HARD?)

R309 Tech tries hard because they want to convince the rest of population that the are open, accepting and trustworthy to everyone, which makes the fact that they are fucking with our data and privacy more difficult to pay attention to. They dont give a shit about any minoroty unless it can help them make money.

True. The diversity mantra of corporate-govt is bs, too - meant to cover the exploitation and poverty of corporate globalism.

R311 there is also a huge crossover between IT types, autism and transgenderism.

Accenture, a large London Corporation (Stonewall Top 100) tonight called 7 police officers to forcefully eject lesbian women from a public speaking event. The women were doing nothing other than sitting and waiting for the event to start.

Apparently Susie Green, CEO of Mermaids , a charity to support 'trans' children, was speaking or something and refused to leave her room until the women were ejected. Susie Green took her 16 year old son to Thailand to be castrated into a trans girl because it was illegal in the UK at that age. Thailand has since raised the age itself. Apparently, the child liked to wear dresses when they were young and appeared feminine - obviously declared themselves a girl and that was the end of it. This now means to her and Mermaids that every child who says it's the opposite sex should be believed and transitioned asap.

Susie now enjoys tormenting women and reporting tweets to the police

Thanks, R313 & R314.

Julia Long rocks. She is so gutsy.

I know about the IT/autism/T etc link but there is also the IT/GOVT/Corporate link - they are all pushing this.

And why is that shady, awful "Mermaids" thing given so much money and input? I don't get it. If this was about PR, can they see that Mermaids is and will be bad PR? What is it? Even that US congresswoman specifically supported them. I don't get it. Is there something we are missing?

*can't they see

I don’t think anyone with any sense is missing anything, R315, it’s simply that some gullible easy marks wishing to be “the most woke” think a charity for trans KIDS, for god’s sake, run by someone who arguably circumvented U.K. law at the time and caused Thailand to change their own, is something progressive or to be proud of.

So in the rush to be loudly "woke" they endorse obvious child abuse? Is it really just that, over and over in govts, media, schools etc.?

I’m trying to think what else it can be R318, but that’s how it seems to me. Pathologising children’s “exploring the world” behavior, especially to the level of telling them must be the other sex and getting them puberty blockers, is horrendous. But I’m a bigot apparently.

R319, Doesn't this all reveal how stupid people really are - at high levels of govt, corporate, media etc? And apparently "LGBT" groups. The handmaidens are incredibly stupid, but then they have been pretending that prostitution was "empowering" "work" for years...

R301, in you linked article Indya Moore schools us: "Dear cis people, I hope you one day evolve beyond penises and vaginas.”

From what I've seen the past few years it seems many trans people themselves are mostly defined by their genitalia and other physical signs of gender. I wouldn't necessarily call that evolving. And I've seen enough trans girls wanking their dicks on Chaturbate to know they certainly are not all women. I was practically traumatized by a tall drag queenish trans woman with huge tits doing a show there who spoke with obviously fake little girl voice. It seemed so weird to see her/him wanking her/his dick. It was extremely off-putting, partly because his dick was so ugly but mostly because the combination of everything about her/him seemed so extremely fake.

As a gay man I'm a bit sad to find how I'm more and more against the trans movement. I'm fairly certain I'm annoyed by some trans people the same way homophobes are annoyed by guys like me. I was bullied in my teens for being gay and obviously there's still homophobia around. I don't like that now I'm the bully against some trans people. Especially because I really do believe some trans people truly feel better living as their trans self. It's just that especially trans women should not expect to be treated as natural women. If they accepted that they can't compete with natural women in sports or expect to be treated everywhere like natural women things would be more simple. But no, they want to rule the world and define everything around them without hearing "cis" people. Like mentioned many times before it's a very male attitude. BTW, using the word cis is just absolutely infuriating. Trans people can use it if they want but why should we? I mean seriously from all the people on the planet under 1 % are trans.

LA-based feminists seem to be forming a group. On the Reddit GenderCritical sub, Seven Sisters graduates were also forming a resistance group. The various Resisters in the UK have been successful at raising awareness of the Transtapo.

Organization has to happen now in the US. The Equality Act might pass the House, but with any luck will die there (while ensuring that Donnie Fatso and his band of Cretins wins 2020) but on a state level, the Trans Lobby is sneaking the same kind of legislation through without anyone knowing. They have to be stopped on the state and local level or women and gay rights will be lost.

[quote]Violence against women is so HOT right now!

Arrgh, r292. Jesus, wtf? That picture should come with a warning or some eyeball bleach.

So it used to be "transsexual," but "trans folk" knew that the general public would never buy that. Probably the first sex-related lesson every human throughout history has learned is "boys have a penis girls have a vagina." It just wouldn't work. So "trans folk" decided to go about it with a bait-and-switch by:

1. Separating Sex and Gender. Yes, sex is immutable, the activists said, but *gender* is a social construct. You identify with the gender that matches your sex, but I don't! My brain isn't a male brain, but a female brain (they still use this even though the science has completely failed to support it, ever). Because if gender isn't biological, then who are you to tell me what my gender is??

2. Replacing "sex" in all of their jargon with gender. Thus "sex reassignment surgery" became "gender confirmation surgery" and "transsexual" itself became "transgender." The condition of *gender* dysphoria became the north star of the movement, providing a clinical, science-based diagnosis to validate their claims (note: although debate remains, many [most?] trans folk have abandoned the idea that you need to have gender dysphoria at all now). Now with the backing of both sociologists and psychologists, to question trans folk on the subject of gender became rote bigotry.

3. Subtly redefining how everyone else experiences their own *gender.* What we used to call gender norms or gender roles now becomes "gender identity," and even though you've never thought of it along the lines that the trans folk are drawing, you must nevertheless comply, or risk "invalidating" the trans folk, and being labeled transphobic. You liked G.I. Joe action figures as a child? Of course, you're a boy! But your sister also liked G.I. Joes? Sorry, but she's not the tomboy you all thought she was, she was actually a boy too, and to refuse her (dangerous) medication was literal bigotry. She says she's a girl? Oh, the poor soul doesn't realize it yet, such is the sorry nature of internal transphobia. Make sure you tell her that every emotional problem she experiences during puberty is a direct result of her being "born in the wrong body," and when she's ready to accept that, send her to us.

We're currently in step 4 of this convoluted maze. The final turn will have trans folk telling us that gender does indeed equal sex---to deny such a reality is harmful, transphobic, and in some places legally actionable. Yes, gender does equal sex, so my penis is really a female penis, his vagina is a man's vagina, and homosexuality is inherently bigoted for refusing trans folk their human right to be in whomever's dating pool that they wish. You may be a gay man, but if you work on it you can overcome your limitations! You can educate yourself on my male vagina, and together we can have wonderful gay sex, which is to say penis-in-vagina sex! Is there any gay sex that's gayer than heterosexual sex? NO! trans folk say, And we'll get you fired for asking that question!

r324 you forgot to add 2 other critical foundations of trans ideology: 1. trans people are literally being murdered in the streets for no other reason than their trans-ness, which incites murderous violence by cis people, and 2. trans people will commit suicide if not encouraged and validated in their brave transitions, and to deny them this is tantamount to killing.

Also, to talk about detransitioners will not be tolerated.

Actually, no dissent will be tolerated. You will be no platformed, attacked verbally and physically, stalked, threatened with rape and murder, and (in England) be arrested for the hate speech crime of saying a transgender female is a biological male. Orwell just got the date wrong.

Where are all of you getting the idea that liberal feminism has been redefined? (Is it something different in Europe because I know they use the words 'left' and 'liberal' differently) Googling 'liberal feminism' brings up nothing but the history of feminism from the first wave on. Liberal feminism has been around a lot longer than the idiots who fill up the third wave and the current SJW contingent. I'm not going to let them steal the history of liberal feminism for their own uses. Not only are they not liberal feminists, they are not even feminists. The TERF slur is them defining us as radical feminists, not us defining ourselves as such, so why would we claim that term to define ourselves. We are liberal feminists, whether our haters like it or not.

R325 I think in the last decade a total of 9 trans people were murdered in the UK, most by boyfriends or johns.

Not sure how much longer this thread can last on here but appreciate the discussion.

Women get murdered by their partners or men they’re intimate with, so it’s no surprise if that also happens to trans women. It of course means nothing about how trans people are accepted in broader society.

One time there was some excitement from the pro-trans crowd as it was thought a “cis” woman had pushed a trans woman under a train in London and murdered her. Sadly for those hoping for a mythical “TERF” violent crime, the killer turned out to be trans too.

The victim was a woman socially but a man when pursuing their career... no comment.

Trying link again:

About 5 years ago I was head of a staff LGBT network. Our trans rep once declared in a meeting that he was all 4; he was bi, he was gay when he got shagged by men, he was a lesbian when he dressed up and shagged women and he was trans.

I spoke out against this saying how offensive it was to actual lesbians and was backed to the hilt. Now I probably would have lost my job.

that sounds a bit like Pippa Bunce r331. Bloke on some days, but make sure to wear makeup and a bra on the day they're giving out awards to women.

[quote] Doesn't this all reveal how stupid people really are - at high levels of govt, corporate, media etc? And apparently "LGBT" groups.

Yep. The combination of this, Trump, and stuff going on in the company I work for has truly revealed to me that most of the people in power are incredibly stupid, and thoroughly, cravenly hypocritical. I want to just get away to a cabin in Labrador, hundreds of miles from humanity and let civilization collapse without me.

"Bloke on some days"

Any day when money is involved in any way.

R318, they’ve been duped.

My late father was a medical doctor. Before he was sick, I asked what he thought about “sex changes” - in light of the fact that it’s impossible to change sex.

He passionately believed surgery to seem to “change sex” was the right thing to do — because suicide. He truly believed those operations saved lives.

(He never performed those surgeries. I do know that he was in the OR for one of those “shock treatment” things...back in the 1980s...& I don’t know how “shock treatment” holds up today.)

I have a friend who is a therapist. One day I thumbed through her “continuing education” catalogs. I wondered if she ever received one that coached her on working with transgenders but I never asked. She & I totally disagree about T ideology but she’s enlightened enough to continue our friendship despite our disagreement. But I would not be surprised that she is being trained in her professional career to validate T ideology.

I have other friends who are pretty much SJWs — but middle-aged. They get all kinds of “leftist” magazines which I’ve thumbed through on occasion. Those mags are FULL to the brim of pro-T propaganda. One mag I saw was from the Unitarian Universalist Church. Another may have been ACLU or planned parenthood. Those mags are also pro-porn & legalized prostition...& supportive of Islam but damning of Christianity (despite MLK & Jimmy Carter).

Propaganda is effective. Who knew.

What a cluster fuck.

R322, I’m heartened that LA rad fems are stepping up.

I blame the Wachowski brothers for delivering the “red pill” of T ideology. I fucking loved the original Matrix movie — it was a big hit so I’m not the only one. They’re success made them very influential.

Also...my pack used to watch the L Word back in the day. They had a storyline where a straight man identified as a lesbian...& of course all the characters in the show accepted & nurtured him. (Unlike the real-life lesbian who got bashed by “queers” outside the Grey Fox Pub a couple years ago.)

IMO, the Wachowskis & the L Word are why the Indigo Girls & NCLR chose to support Ts & boycott MichFest.

They want to call us cis? Fine. We call 'em trannies.

This is why Trump will be re-elected

R336 The L Word is now considered “problematic” for its treatment of trans characters. If you can believe it, the idea is that the male lesbian you mentioned (“Lisa”) was, some feel, treated as a joke and without sufficient respect — this is because a couple of characters do find him slightly ridiculous and don’t immediately fall over themselves to welcome him into the lesbian fold.

They also had an FtM character and his girlfriend, who eventually dumps him because he’s transitioning but she is gay and originally dated him as a butch and doesn’t want a boyfriend, is considered to be mean to him. That’s even though her point why she can’t date him affirms his “gender identity” and the gf (Jenny) is a c*nt to nearly every single character at some point such that the final season of the original series was built around a murder mystery where her character had seemingly been murdered by one of her friends and Lucy Lawless had to figure out which one did it.

Nothing is EVER good enough for these people. I am not sure how we get the genie back in the bottle now. The “change sex”, “trans women are women and trans men are men” propaganda is of course meaningless but effective. And laws behind it to change birth certificates are pure insanity. The certificate issued should be a “sex change” certificate. Still not true but not the rabbit hole insanity of rewriting history about the sex one was born (after all, when you change name without changing sex, you still have to disclose your former name in many situations and no-one goes back and says your parents really named you what you’ve now named yourself. You get a document that acknowledges from a certain point your name changed).

We are going to have to go through several more rounds of trans outrageousness before the general public wakes up. Sadly I think the religious right are going to be the ones who will get anywhere with pushing back on this rather than feminists. Bad news for the LG and B.

This is the psychology in play.

Trans encourages violence in Twitter post (imagine if a “TERF” did that) and is rightly booted from event.

Event organisers: nasty women made “her” do it!!

The male pattern thinking is all too obvious.

R329, remember the Google shooter?

I think “she” was bio male & TPTB are suppressing that info.

Imagine the outrage if a black person were forced to treat a white person as black, under penalty of law.

Yet in California and New York and other places, "misgendering" is a crime, with a possible jail term in CA, and in NYC up to a $250,000 fine.

And in the UK, one woman has been arrested and another, a journalist no less, threatened with arrest and a jail sentence of a few years, for "misgendering."

We need to compare "trans-gender" with "trans-racial" when making our argument because it points out the absurdity and the doublethink of the Transgender Lobby.

Race is much more of a social construct than biological sex: for instance, many mixed-race people can pass as one race or the other. Many (most?) African-Americans have European blood, even if appearing "Black." If you examined their DNA you would find it.

But no transgender "woman" (leaving aside intersex people, who are a whole other issue ) lacks a Y chromosome.

We need to fight back and call their bullshit out everywhere we see it, we need to call our lawmakers and companies that support this rot and make our voices heard, because the rights we, gays and women, have fought for for millennia will be gone if we don't.

R341 I have my suspicions that is correct. Aghdam even referred to herself as trans in one of her videos at one point, albeit she didn’t do so consistently. But her transition records would likely be in Iran and difficult to get hold of, so they can deny her, and in fact even use her as evidence of cis women’s violence and “transphobic assumptions.”

[quote]They want to call us cis? Fine. We call 'em trannies.

It would be much clearer if we still used the terms transsexual vs transvestite/crossdresser.

R343...I wonder if an autopsy report would indicate the presence of a penis.

These days, I’d bet even an autopsy report would list the bio sex of a TW as female.

Imare we still permitted to say “transvestite”? I think Trans activists told us we aren’t allowed.

[quote] Yet in California and New York and other places, "misgendering" is a crime, with a possible jail term in CA, and in NYC up to a $250,000 fine.

r342, I hope somebody takes this on, as it strikes me as unconstitutional under the 1st Amendment's protection of free speech.