All About Eve

The best written film of all time.

Tired flick

Absolutely classic.

Tired

thanks, ok! I own it, have seen it about a billion times - but never turn down an opportunity to watch again. Will be fun to check this thread along the way.

"You can put that award where your heart ought to be."

"I hate men."

"We're all busy little bees, full of stings, making honey day and night."

Fabulous..

I never miss an Eve Arden retrospective. The husbear is away so I’ve got a pitcher of Appletini’s to keep me warm as I hear it’s going to be a bumpy night.

"I don't want to make trouble. All I want is a drink."

-Marilyn Monroe

This is how I always want to enter a room...

(Fuck you!)

[quote]The best written film of all time.

What a dull cliché.

I love you OP

I use that line often, R11. Nobody gets it, of course.

I've read enough AAE threads on here to know it will quickly devolve into a critique of Baxter's performance, mostly derisive. I for one thought she perfectly portrayed a fantasist, especially when she goes off into her fugue states where she's narrating her own alternate reality - which is of course her gift, in art and life. I also think not enough is made of the fact that her grandfather was Frank Lloyd Wright!

How about this one, R16?

"Maybe somebody's name is Butler."

rofl.

It's starting...IT'S STARTING!!!

So did Eve end up winning in the end?

It seems like they all just gave up, and let her win.

At least she left New York, R19.

Max Fabian is kind of a disgusting creature. A skirt chaser?

r21, Max Fabian was probably the Harvey Weinstein of his day. lol

So the old actor has been doing this for 40 years - meaning since 1910.

That's what I figure, R23. I wonder if Miss Caswell ever made it big.

We should have a thread reconstructing the entire film in GIFs.

"You can breathe it, can't you" - Eve seems genuine about her love of acting, at least. One of her few sort of likable moments.

R26 this thread has so many good lines that you could actually do it!

I wish I could find some gifs of Bertie. She was similar to Margaret Hamilton in Wizard of Oz, in that she had just a little bit of screen time, but her appearance made a HUGE impact on the film.

I love this line...

There very few perfect movies.

Casting, scripts and performances.

Night of the Iguana Gone with the wind Moonstruck

And this. Perfection.

Mary. Saved somebody the trouble.

Bertie barging in just as Eve is about to launch into her bullshit story - perfect.

Every line a bonbon, R30

The only Birdie I could find. She says it all without saying a word.

Oops. Bad formatting.

Eve: "If you'd like."

Margo: "I WOULDN'T like."

Hahaha, love it!

Everybody needs a friend like Bertie.

My favorite Birdie moment is when she closes the door with an ominous look, after Margo learns of Eve's birthday call to Bill.

Birdie us Oscar material...a very under rated actress...great in everything she is in.

What's the theory about the "dreary letter" line?

Gary Merrill is hammy and overacts in the scene where Eve questions him about Hollywood while Margo dresses.

I read Bette Davis was unaware the second curtain call was being filmed, and so her look of surprise is genuine.

The husband of Celeste Holme character is kind of hot, wasn't he in Day the Earth Stood Still?

The honeymoon is on.

Stop trying to make "Bertie" happen, Gretchen!

What’s on her breakfast tray?

R47, this being 1949 or so....probably grapefruit? A soft-boiled egg?

Love Margo's warm, genuine laughter with Bertie.

The turning point.

Is Miss Caswell implying Addison is a rabid pussy hound?

I like how the switch to "Blue Moon" changes the mood.

Marilyn Monroe manages to steal the few scenes she's in from both Bette Davis and George Sanders, which is quite a feat.

Ok, here's the one thing that was always implausible to me - that they would remotely consider handing Eve, a secretary, the role of understudy to Broadway's greatest star.

100% agree, R41. It's the only wrong note in the entire film. He is way over the top and it's purple prose to start.

I won't make it through the entire movie, but isn't the subtext around the male villain his homosexuality? Or am I the only one for whom the critic pings?

The cigarette holder seems like signal...

Always assumed Addison was gay - classic, cynical bitter closer queen

R56, R41, I feel like that's the point. That he's an egotistical director, full of himself, loves to pontificate, takes himself super-seriously.

Can't at all picture Claudette Colbert in this role.

Aged In Wood!

R43, Celeste Holmes' character's husband Lloyd was played by Hugh Marlowe, who was in a lot of movies, including "The Day the Earth Stood Still" -- he also played patriarch Jim Matthews on the TV soap "Another World" for years.

Love the reference to Arthur Miller - later to wed none other than "Miss Caswell"!

[R63] Hugh Marlowe also played Gene Tierney's bohemian "gay best friend" in the fantastic NIGHT AND THE CITY, which is available free on YouTube. Another true classic.

57 and have never seen it....is this something you lose you gay card over?

That is one treacherous, fucked-up thing Karen did to her best friend. And gambling with the hottest play on Broadway!

Are you watching now, R66? Enjoying?

[R66] I envy you because I've seen it so many times and know it so well that it's hard to enjoy the way it used to be. For no fault of the movie's the experience of watching it has becomes almost...liturgical for me. Do yourself a favor and watch it. Martini optional.

I don't usually watch classic movies, and I saw this one night and was surprised that it's still poignant today. And a lot of famous people show up in it.

And now, with a triumph under her belt, Eve transforms. That shot of her ripping the wig is startling in its savagery.

Addison's delight when people behave badly is hilarious.

I think Merrill is just fine in his role. It's Baxter (and to a lesser extent, Marlowe) who aren't quite up to par with the rest of the cast.

Wasn't Sanders the only one to win an Oscar for this film?

[R72] Addison to Margo: "You're maudlin and full of self-pity. You're magnificent!" Addison can't imagine that actors are ever not acting. Maybe he's onto something.

And the winner is ... George Sanders for "All Abou Eve."

I hate how Gary Merrill runs across the room to her. Something about how he holds his hands. He is definitely the weak link. As with every role she ever had, Ann Baxter also chews the scenery relentlessly. Ben-Hur is the worst.

Footstep On The Ceiling!

Do we suppose the Richardses live on Central Park West? Or Fifth Avenue?

"On her knees, I've no doubt!" - ho ho!

Margo Channing in the Cub Room.

I dunno, I love every character, couldn't imagine any others in these roles.

I think Anne Baxter plays a marvelous bitch! The way she says "No" to a shocked Karen.

[R30] So happy someone else appreciates The Night of the Iguana.

That was her best scene. Or second best...the upcoming scene out-of-town with Addison is the other one.

Really a wonderful soundtrack. I wonder if it's available.

R84, indeed! The final scene with the fan club girl is good, too.

Celeste played that giggling adorably.

This is one of the films that makes me think about how the characters end up after the film is over. Margo will be just fine and will always have a level of legend status that Eve will never get to. Why? Because Phoebe is going to FUCK EVE UP! You can just tell. Phoebe comes off as someone with a little more hood in them than Eve.

My wish is for Director Todd Haynes grabs Julianne Moore, who he directed in the great Far From Heaven, to play Margo Channing in a sequel. Fuck a remake. Todd Haynes is a great script writer as well. This film begs for a sequel.

A sequel? Only if it's a faithful early-50s period piece. Who would play Eve? Jennifer Lawrence?

So do we believe Eve is sleeping with Lloyd, and that he's temporarily besotted with her? It's certainly plausible, but is it one of Eve's fantasies?

One of many great things about this movie is, there's no overuse of dramatic music. This scene is beautifully played with no music at all.

She's making it all up, just planning on Addison publishing it so she can make it true after the fact.

One of my all time favorite lines. And I love Marilyn's haughty reaction.

R76: Anne Baxter was not in Ben Hur. She was in "The Ten Commandments" with Yul Brynner and Charlton Heston.

"You’re too short for that gesture!"

But that throbbing music that plays under the final shot of Phoebe's multiple images in Eve's evening cape just slays me every time!

Kill me, but I think Gary Merrill is hot and I totally see why Bette fell for him.

Sanders delivery of the long monologue late in the film is one of the best things in the film--definitely Oscar worthy because it is so diffiuclt to perform.

Is that a Tony award?

Do we think Eve and Addison have slept together at this point?

I love the scene (which I can’t find!) where she’s setting up the cigarettes and chocolates for the party while having one of her famous feisty discussions with her man. She toys around with this one particular bom bom, resists it repeatedly, until she gives in and devours it.

“Couldn’t go on? You’ll give the performance of your life.”

Sorry, R94...you're right; I meant The Ten Commandments, not Ben-Hur.

Can't you just picture Eve a bitch diva Hollywood movie star?

Why are they all driving those old cars?

Interesting that Eve doesn't want to attend her triumphant party, and that she leaves her award in the cab. What's up with that? Maybe it really is about her "craft" for her in the end.

The passage of time makes no sense in this entire movie.

Well, Addison's gay and Eve's a dyke, R99, so there’s that.

How did the new girl know what she was drinking?

"Miss Caswell is an actress, a graduate of the Copacabana school of dramatic arts."

I read there was a big question as to whether they should include this last bit with Eve and Phoebe, or cut it. I think it's a cool coda.

Well then R107 what is Addison blathering on about, that Eve "belongs" to him?

It truly is a fabulous film.

"I call myself Phoebe!"

You'd think Ben Mankiewicz could have dropped a fresh nugget or two about this film, some family gossip, seeing that his relative wrote it and all. And how disloyal of him to agree that Judy Holliday should have beat Bette for the Oscar. I'm sorry, but Judy's voice was annoying.

This movie is in need of a remake, set in the pop music world with Madonna and Lady Gaga.

I never got the hype about Judy Holliday! Born Yesterday was a born mess!!!! Ugh😡

There is no Shubert Thetare in San Francisco, Eve.

That was a lie! A stupid lie.

This film epitomizes my career -

(Do not fuck with me, Princess.)

R108, she read about it in the Eve Harrington Fan Club newsletter

You do all know that there's currenbtly a new stage version playing on the West End in London with Gillian Anderson, Lily James and Julian Ovenden directed by avant garde enfant terrible Ivo von Hove, right?? Just in previews so the reviews haven't come out yet but word on the Theatre Gossip Thread is unsurprisingly not good.

"Nice speech, Eve. But I wouldn't worry too much about your heart. You can always put that award where your heart ought to be."

Always , always, always, The Village Voice's coverage of Stonewall: "Instead of trying to find a revival of All About Eve, they decided to stand up and fight." The motto of Stonewall.

[quote]Ok, here's the one thing that was always implausible to me - that they would remotely consider handing Eve, a secretary, the role of understudy to Broadway's greatest star.

A.) Margo is a trouper who never misses a performance.

B.) The job of the understudy is to keep the curtain up and nothing greater. A more established talent would be called a Stand-By and would probably cost the producer more. (Recall, Margo never misses a show.)

C.) Margo is too old for her role. There is not a role for a younger woman in the play because that would make Margo look even older. That means there isn't an actress already on the payroll who could step up in Margo's absence.

D.) Eve has seen the play over a hundred times and knows it word for word. Writers like that.

E.) Since understudy to Margo is a shit duty anyway, and since dear little Eve makes herself so very useful around the theater, it is nice to provide a tidy extra sum in her paycheck each week, filling a position a more established actress would consider a futile chore.

But was Eve a member of Actor's Equity??

Also Eve's understudy was in an advanced state of pregnancy.

A considerate way of helping Eve get her Equity card too, R124. A lot of producers' wives used to get Equity cards, or join the musician's union, just to be given a job on paper, so the producer could pay himself indirectly out of a show's revenue.

She was probably made a member the moment they hired her to be understudy. Back then it was easier to get your card, as there was a lot more need for stage talent.

Fun fact: Marilyn was so intimidated by Bette that after filming the scene where Ms Caswell's audition goes so bad she ends up sick in the bathroom, Marilyn actually ran off and threw up for real.

I always wondered why MM wasn't there at the audition scene!

Addison . . . uncut?

R128, MM really was a method actress!

Is it just me or does Ann Baxter have really bad posture??

Her shoulders always look like she's slouching.

The part about Phoebe being in a high school fan club for Eve was odd. Would high school girls really have fan clubs for stage actors? I could see it for singers of the day, but not stage actors since most high school kids would never be able to see a Broadway show.

Interesting R123, I’ll take your word for it.

R133 I think the implication is that Eve was an “it” girl, the hot new young star in town. Besides, there weren’t 1 million billion jillion celebrities back then like there are now.

They were probably like the online fangurls who are rampant across the internet today, R133.

The only difference is that to meet their idol, they had to either go there in person or correspond with letters.

But they probably did meet in hometown groups, to gather and talk about the star. Just like any other social club.

Now I understand the lesbian reference about Eve.

When she had her friend call Lloyd's house in the middle of the night, and then when the call was over, Eve and her "friend" walked up the stairs together, with their arms around each other. I got a major vibe from that scene of an unspoken relationship between the two.

I think Bette did a fantastic job but the hairstyle made her look old...unless that was the point. The length of it draws attention to her jowl line so a shorter hairstyle would have made her look younger. Unless that's not what they were going for.

I always assumed Phoebe was blowing a little smoke up Eve's ass. What better way to ingratiate herself than tell Eve she has fan clubs popping up everywhere and Phoebe is her biggest cheerleader?

Bette Davis. Joan Crawford. Barbara Stanwyck.

The greatest classic movie queens.

Did Margo ever win a Tony?

Oh, dear, a “Tony”, you mean, that “other” award? Anyone can win a Tony. A Sara Siddons award, now that is something special!

[quote] Birdie: “I closed the first have for eleven years, and she knows it!”

Or something like that.

I had to look that up (years ago). Do you all know what it means?

The Celluloid Closet has a whole section on that scene and the one with Addison at the end, r137. And yes, the general consensus was that they were both gay, and “needed each other.”

It's the "first half," the spot right before intermission a high prestige spot in vaudeville. Points to Birdie's career as a performer before she aged out and became Margo's aide-de-camp.

In all the goodness of the film, there is the badness of that walk that they take in front of the theater, back to her hotel. It is such a bad green screen treatment that it is jarring to see in such a classy production.The background jumps around and George and Anne apparently don't know how to fake a walk down a street.

I always assumed the Margo hairdo was in reference to Tallulah Bankhead and IMHO it suits Bette and Margo perfectly.

And what's really odd about that "green screen" shot is they're in New Haven, supposedly walking around the Shubert Theatre, hardly an iconic location the world would know. Surely, Mank could have done an easy outdoor location shot anywhere for that moment.

Yep, R145. The last act in the first half had to be good to entice people to come back after intermission.

I saw Sugar Babies with Mickey Rooney at my father’s insistence, but left at the intermission. It was so awful, especially for anyone born after the advent of “talkies”.

R146, It's right up there with the amateurish backgrounds in "Marnie", when Sean takes Tippi to visit her mother.

Haha, I love the old green screen scenes, they remind me of my childhood when I totally bought them, and I still do.

And now I see, Eve as Addison’s beard. For some reason I hadn’t thought of that angle. I thought he was still trying to prove himself sexually with her or something.

I loved Marilyn Monroe in this movie. I thought she was perfect. Her character was a bit of a, what’s the word for it? An exaggerated fake character for comic relief? I hadn’t realized that she and Bette were making movies at the same time.

There are many brilliant lines in this film:

But there are just a few clinkers, too:

"That bitter cynicism of yours is something you've acquired since you left Radcliffe!"

“Like most women she told more than she learned.”

Zing, Addison, you cunt!

R133, back then, before television became ubiquitous, middle to upper class families who lived in the NYC area would go out for the night for dinner and a Broadway show for less than $6.00 a person. Families could go out practically every night at that rate. So it's perfectly plausible for high school girls and boys to form fan clubs for their favorite Broadway star. Today, a dinner and a play for a family of four would cost upwards of $500.

All About Eve received 14 Oscar nominations, also achieved by only 2 other films, Titanic and La La Land. No film yet has received more than 14 Oscar nominations. All About Eve won 6 Oscars: Best Picture, Director, Supporting Actor, Writing (Screenplay), Costume Design (Black and white) and Sound recording.

“...it gets BETTER...” Margo, reading Addison’s review of Eve’s performance.

Then I like the part where she says that Eve must have sent out Indian runners to racetracks or saloons or wherever they congregate... something like that.

[quote] I like the part where she says that Eve must have sent out Indian runners to racetracks or saloons or wherever they congregate

Rofl.

The REAL zinger was where Margo talked about theater critics to be found at "steam rooms and museums, or wherever they congregate."

OUCH!

Funny. Where else might theater critics congregate?

Day Care Centers and Methadone Clinics.

Seriously, 150+ posts and no one's mentioned this?!:

"What a story! Everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end."

[quote] Funny. Where else might theater critics congregate?

Rest stops and dollar stores

From the views and casement windows I imagine the Richards are supposed to live in a 1940s building on 5th Ave, like 870, 880, or 930

Oh shit, manners.

R162 I didn’t pay close attention to the buildings on the other side of the park, are they recognizable? I would have thought theater people would be on the west side but maybe it was different in the late 1940s.

[quote]Oh shit, manners

BD upon meeting CH on set, right?

R63, wait that was Jim Matthews? Wow, I did not realize it watching the soap with my mother when I was a kid. Anyone remember who his wife was on the show?

"Oh shit....manners!"

There has to be a backstory for this intercourse between CH and BD. I mean, I know BD could be a bitch, but the way CH tells it, it came out of nowhere and for no reason. Unless, BD heard something about CH and had decided to be upfront about her distrust of her co-star. I heard that CH could be very brittle and kind of pompous at times. (Like Miriam Hopkins?) Maybe a reputation preceded her.

I read in T.V. Guide in the late 60's, that a T.V. version was being planned with Angela Lansbury and Marlo Thomas.

I recall watching this for the first time and being disappointed. Yes Bette is good, though not her best performance imo. Yes some of the scenes are great, with sharp dialogue, but somehow it felt flat to me. Quite stagey. None of you will agree but i find it a tad overrated.

"Eve would ask Abbott to give her Costello."

For me its George Sanders who really steals the movie. The scene at the end where he "owns" Eve is the highlight.

Gary Merril was the weak link in the cast. So wooden and charisma free. He brings the film down for me. Also the fact that he subjected Bette to ten years of abuse after the movie finished.

No one's going to comment on Gary Merril???

Max . . . . . you sly puss !!!

Gary's (rumored) massive sizemeat was the reason Bette supported him for at least 15 years.

[quote]Kill me, but I think Gary Merrill is hot and I totally see why Bette fell for him.

And I totally see why he beat the shit out of her on a regular basis.

Gary went from Bette Davis to Rita Hayworth.

Talk about trading up.

R177. I just think he was using Bette.

Gary defended Bette when B.D.'s book was published.

Bette Davis was a huge fan of Another World and particularly loved Constance Ford, Hugh Marlowe's co-star.

Where does Birdie Coonan go? I think its sloppy plotting and mean to the audience, not to mention Thelma.

You learned a lot from that salesman from Cincinnati, didn’t you?

Oh, there was nothin’ that he didn’t know...

r89, oh most definitely it should be set in the same time period and I think Jennifer Lawrence as Eve is an excellent suggestion. Emma Stone would be good for that role as well.

r138, are you high? Aside from Now Voyager, post-character makeover, Bette never looked more beautiful as she did as Margo. That hairstyle SLAAAAYED!!!

I am somewhat impressed DL can turnout 180 replies so rapidly on All About Eve in 2019!

"Green screen"?????

In the 1950s?????

Could it be possible that you've confused me with that group of children you play tricks on?

Isn’t it “backward children”, R186?

The full quote is, "It is possible - even conceivable - that you've confused me with that gang of backward children you've been playing tricks on - that you have the same contempt for me that you have for them?"

What r183 said. Bette looked her age, and HOT! Womanly, ripe, intelligent and sexy without that faux ingenue facade many actresses of a certain age tried to get away with...coughCrawfordcough.

Hi Christina!

"The heave-ho,"

[quote]Also the fact that he subjected Bette to ten years of abuse after the movie finished.

The abuse was quite shocking. Merrill was a drunk and a batterer. In today's world he would be in jail.

Gary and Bette would get drunk and beat each other up then have hate sex. Gary was a wife-beater but Bette was a husband-beater as well. There's a reason all four of her marriages failed.

I want a birdie of my own!

The look of surprise on the actors face at the final curtain was a theatre tradition in those days.

And to think Bette almost didn't play Margo! She was cast as a last-minute replacement for Claudette Colbert who broke her back. I believe Bette was cast only a week before filming started.

R180 Constance Ford deserves a thread of her, for her performance in "A Summer Place" alone. I think I'll search the archives....

I found it interesting that the bonbons Margo futzes with before the party, and eventually eats one of, was actually cut-up pieces of gingerbread. It was used as a prop because Davis claimed she could eat chocolate at an early morning shoot.

"I call myself Pheobe!"

"And why not?"

Didn’t one of Bette’s husbands, Arthur Farnsworth, die under mysterious circumstances? There was a rumor that Bette clunked him on the head with something during a row and he collapsed several hours later. The studio allegedly covered her tracks .

What's most shocking is that Bette Davis was at the absolute lowest point of her career when she was cast as Margo. Brilliant as she is, it's surprising that Fox allowed Mank to cast her when Claudette was unable to continue. It was probably to Bette's advantage that she was out of work and readily available.

I wonder if they'd considered Barbara Stanwyck or even Joan Crawford, either of whom would have been interesting, to say the least, to see as Margo. Is this all covered in the Sam Staggs book All About All About Eve? I must buy it!

R196, Had Claudette Colbert played Margo, the threat of Anne Baxter's upstart Eve would've been more potent since she resembled her and would've been an actual physical replacement. Bette Davis' Margo is a different type altogether, and you could see both Margo and Eve coexisting in the same great lady of the theater realm.

The Oscar for Best Actress for 1950 should have gone to Gloria Swanson. Bette even said in interviews that she would have cheered if Swanson had won.

Agreed, R203. Swanson's performance was the greatest among the nominees. Holiday got the Oscar because she was young and the PTB were trying to jump-start her film career.

R204, Steve Hayes, aka Tired Old Queen at the Movies, said that another reason why Swanson and Davis lost because both had a bad reputations in Hollywood at the time, and despite delivering some of the best performances of their careers, Hollywood harbored some bitterness towards the two and decided to vote for the newcomer, Judy Holliday.

[quote]Is it just me or does Ann Baxter have really bad posture??

I don't know. "Ann" Baxter is not in this film.

You're too short for that statement, r206.

[quote] Holiday got the Oscar because she was young and the PTB were trying to jump-start her film career.

That's terrible.

I always have mixed feelings about this movie. it's very good overall, there are genuinely great performances in it, and the screenplay is extremely witty, but there are some silly things in the movie that just don't work, and when fans of it try to treat it as if its deeply profound I am wondering what movie they saw. It basically is just about a bunch of insecure threatened actresses (and one really horrible gay sociopath) and how badly they can behave towards one another.

Some of the performances are absolutely superb: Bette Davis, George Sanders, Celeste Holm (although her part is horrible), Thelma Ritter, and Gregory Ratoff. Marilyn Monroe gets a lot of credit for being a scene stealer, although actually the part would have worked better without a scene stealer--had she not gone on to be so famous people might talk about the fact that she holds focus when she shouldn't. Gary Merrill and Hugh Marlowe are not very good, and Anne Baxter is genuinely great in some scenes (especially when she reveals openly what a monster and schemer she is in the scene in the ladies' room with Celeste Holm), but utterly ridiculous in her big final confrontation with George Sanders. The film suffers from quite a bit of cheesiness and unbelievability: it implies Addison DeWitt is heterosexual and wants to fuck Eve (which is completely unbelievable), and it also suggests no one can see through Eve except Birdie or people who have directly experienced her nastiness (which is also unbelievable given how wildly Anne Baxter tips her hand). By calling the Anne Baxter character Eve, the screenplay implies this is what all women are really like, and it continues this somewhat misogynistic idea with Phoebe and her endless multiplication by the mirrors at the film's end.

There's also a lot of nonsense in the film about the theater as some sort of higher heavenly calling that's pretty ridiculous. Whenever any of the characters goes into those moments, I want someone else to say, "Well, but that's just pretentious nonsense.--you don't really believe that, and if you do, you're an idiot" I DO like that at one point Karen does with her great line, "A part in a play.. you would really do all that, just for a part in a play?"

I still don't think it was the greatest movie of the year or had the greatest performance (SUNSET BLVD was and the greater performance is Gloria Swanson's), but it is a fine movie overall, and it still features one of Bette Davis's absolutely greatest performances ever (although I like her even better in JEZEBEL and THE LETTER).

[quote] There's also a lot of nonsense in the film about the theater as some sort of higher heavenly calling that's pretty ridiculous

Actually, you have to consider the time period.

It was around 1950 when theater was fading away, and television and movies were taking its place. Hence, the dig at movies as being "all auditions."

It wasn't ridiculous, as much as trying to hold on to the last vestiges of the golden days of the theater.

Helen Lawson was the original choice to play Margo. I've forgotten why she couldn't do it.

[quote]Helen Lawson was the original choice to play Margo. I've forgotten why she couldn't do it.

Jenny Stewart started a nasty rumor that Lawson had spread chlamydia on her last set.

Producers got cold feet.

I don’t get how this was based on Three Wives - which was shown right after last night. A totally different story.

Felliucci had promised the role to me.

R209, but to these people, the theatre is exactly as portrayed. The Sarah Siddons Award is the important one. Not the garish Tony. This is an insular group. It should also be incestuous, too, but perhaps mostly just for the younger actors. It is their world and their higher calling. And it’s all they know. Even their relationships revolve around their play-availability dates.

Marilyn ‘s appearances are brief, they just seem long because she is so perfect in them. Acting perfectly as a blonde no-talent bombshell.

I object to something someone said that actors are always acting. When acting, there’s a whole 4th wall of people with lights, cameras, gestures, dialogue cards sometimes. Play-acting in real life is sociopathic, not acting. Though, I don’t know how “method” acting applies here. Am I wrong?

[quote]The film suffers from quite a bit of cheesiness and unbelievability: it implies Addison DeWitt is heterosexual and wants to fuck Eve (which is completely unbelievable),

You have to understand the time period. Yes it is ridiculous that DeWitt is presented as heterosexual, but there was no other choice. At that time no character in a movie could be openly gay. In the "real world," of course he would be gay but not in a Hollywood film made in 1950.

The "gay" characters are portrayed as super-manipulative and bitchy.

R209, the legitimate theater held a lot of prestige back then, compared to the other visual art forms like vaudeville, film and, heaven forbid!, television, so it is perfectly plausible that theater actors and playwrights behaved with such haughty self-importance. They were carrying on the traditions of Sophocles, Shakespeare, Shaw, Bernhardt and Duse after all, so in their little insular circle, they were the gods. Even theater critics saw themselves as purveyors and messengers of high culture, so a supercilious character like Addison Dewitt makes perfect sense.

Regarding the portrayal of women-- if you know actors, male and female, they are vain and insecure and are threatened by young up-and-comers ready to usurp their power. In a way you understand why their business is so cutthroat, very few make a success of it, and when they do, their shelf life is short, particularly for women. That is why competition is fierce and the ambitious resort to conniving and backstabbing and other questionable means to achieve their goals.

[quote]It was around 1950 when theater was fading away, and television and movies were taking its place. Hence, the dig at movies as being "all auditions."

It was television that Addison dismisses as being "nothing but auditions," after telling Miss Casswell that he believed her future was in television.

On the subject of Bette's "career low-point" at the time she landed ALL ABOUT EVE, one must take into account that A. Bette wasn't fired from Warner's. She had 10 years left on her contract (!) but during the filming of BEYOND THE FOREST she threatened Jack Warner that she wouldn't finish the movie unless he gave her her release. Although it's understood that at this point Warner was probably dying to get rid of her, it was indeed Bette who demanded out. B. ALL ABOUT EVE was not Bette's first movie after leaving Warner's - PAYMENT ON DEMAND (aka THE STORY OF A DIVORCE) produced by Howard Hugh and directed by Curtis Bernhardt (A STOLEN LIFE) was. It was made first but released after and it's a very good movie, although not nearly on the level of AAE. Also, in 1948 Bette was the highest-paid woman in the U.S., even her career was admittedly in decline. She was very much still a big deal in 1950 even though her career was in trouble.

Just as people exaggerate and misrepresented Crawford's departure from MGM (she also wasn't fired but bought her way out of her contract), Bette's exit from Warner's has been altered to make her comeback in AAE seem even more dramatic than it was.

Now, Voyager on TCM tonight at 8. I love 30 Days of Oscar!

Hugh Marlowe and Gary Merrill had important roles in “Twelve O’Clock High” (1949), an Oscar nominee for Best Picture. Dean Jagger won a Best Supporting Oscar. Gregory Peck had the lead role in a very strong ensemble. It’s a great movie focusing on the men and human cost rather than just action scenes.

r220: How could Bette Davis be the highest paid woman in America in 1948? What had she done that year to get paid such a large amount?

Surely, Rita Hayworth and Ingrid Bergman, to name two, must have been paid more that year? Even the other Bettys, Grable and Hutton were way more popular.

[R223] Bette signed a contract when her career was red-hot and it came with incremental raises that weren't tied to the box office of her films. She was with Warner's for 17 years and over time built up enormous power as one of their top money makers. I did some fact-checking - it was actually 1947 that she was named the top-paid woman in the country - sorry.

While Addison de Witt strikes most of us as a typical crypto-gay villain of the time period, I wonder if that's necessarily the case. I read somewhere that he is based in part on the theatre critic George Jean Nathan, whose mistress (later wife--they married in the mid-50s) was Julie Haydon, the original Laura in "The Glass Menagerie." Nathan wrote a book called "The Bachelor Life," and had an affair with Lillian Gish in the twenties (she refused to marry him). So, even though de Witt seems epicene in his style, he may very well have been, as you say in the DL, a major pussyhound. And his relationship with Eve was clearly about power--whether sexual or professional or psychological. I have often wondered if one of the reasons Eve is so eager (even if ambivalent) to go to Hollywood is to get away from him. (It also would have been the next step for someone in her position at the time--earlier great ladies of the theatre like Cornell did not do movies, though some worked occasionally in them--Helen Hayes did some work in the early talkies and then didn't really return to them until her third act--her films between her Oscar win for "The Sin of Madelon Claudet" and that for "Airport" (both undeserved) are few and far between. I think Cornell was smart enough to know that, by the time she was a big enough star, she would come across as matronly on film (and her lavender marriage to Guthrie McClintic might have been under more scrutiny in Hollywood than on Broadway).

From Bette’s Wikipedia entry...

[quote]Despite the lackluster box office receipts from her more recent films, in 1949, she negotiated a four-film contract with Warner Bros. that paid $10,285 per week and made her the highest-paid woman in the United States. However, Jack Warner had refused to allow her script approval, and cast her in Beyond the Forest (1949). Davis reportedly loathed the script, and begged Warner to recast the role, but he refused. After the film was completed, her request to be released from her contract was honored.

[R226] Bette claims in MOTHER GODDAM that she gave Jack Warner the ultimatum to release her or leave BEYOND THE FOREST unfinished.

In today's dollars, Bette was earning $108,500/week.

Considering some of Bette's later work. Wondering if she wished she had stayed At WB ?

Interesting because, according to IMDB, Bette made no films in 1947. In 1948 she made Winter Meeting and June Bride (has ANYONE seen them?). And then in 1949 she made Beyond the Forest.

So I would maintain that no matter how much she was earning in the late 1940s, she wouldn't have been anyone's first casting choice for anything. I do wonder if her easy availabilty really helped her get cast. And I wonder if she was as well paid by Fox as she was by Warners.

But I say all this with enormous gratitude that she was cast as Margo and gave a brilliant performance (my fave of 1950).

R229. I doubt it. Jack Warner refused to let her do the projects she wanted to do. I read that she implored him to let her play Mary Todd Lincoln in a film version of a play about her. He thought it was too high brow. I'm sure there were many instances like this. She had to leave really Warners didn't give a fuck about her by 1949.

Hugh Marlowe is really terrible and lifeless in this.He was typical of that eras second tier actors. Like Bruce Bennett or Kent smith.

Bette was to have appeared in Posessed in 1947, but fell pregnant (the odious B.D.) and took the year off. Crawford played the part and was Oscar-nominated for it.

[R231] Another film she desperately wanted to do was ETHAN FROME and again Warner nixed it.

But ironically and sadly, once Bette left Warners, she never got a great role until 1962's Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? Well, maybe the Irish mother in A Catered Affair.

Hugh Marlowe has a shower scene in Come to the Stable (also with Celeste Holm) and displays a very hot fit body.

I felt she was miscast in A Catered Affair. Thelma Ritter should've played that role in the film since she originated it on Broadway.

[R235] Bette also moved to Maine with Gary Merrill and children in the early 1950's to focus on raising her family. She consciously placed her career 2nd for the first time in her adult life and greatly enjoyed it - until her marriage fell apart. Bette was realistic and knew she couldn't maintain her career of the 30's and 40's as an older actress.

Merrill is fine if only because he & Davis were having an affair. Marlowe has the least significant part which is good because he's the wekest actor in the whole thing. Kent Smith had more presence.

Of course DeWitt is gay and if he was a public figure he would have had a lavender marriage and it could have been with someone has shallow as Eve. The film is historically authetic, some people may just not like the history.

Miss Caswell is needed to help establish the circumstances of Eve's audition.

Claudette Colbert would have sucked. Bette knew she was lucky and made the most of it.

Bette was in negotiations to play Mrs. Venable (the Hepburn role) in SUDDENLY, LAST SUMMER (also directed by Joseph Mankiewicz) but it didn't work out reasons that escape me ($$$ most likely). She was also offered COME BACK LITTLE SHEBA, which she turned down and later regretted, and was strongly considered for THE GLASS MENAGERIE, supposedly to the point where she did a test with Irving Rapper. GLASS MENAGERIE came soon after her exit from Warner's and it was very likely that Jack W simply didn't want her on the lot. All tantalizing "what ifs" and all potential Oscar noms that got away

Oh - and Bette also turned down the Hepburn role in THE AFRICAN QUEEN because she refused to go on location in Africa.

[quote]Bette knew she was lucky and made the most of it.

Exactly. Bette had been complaining for years about the quality of the scripts she was getting. She knew a great one when she saw it.

That's funny, R241, because decades later she eventually took the role in Death on the Nile which was shot in Egypt.

If she turned down the film of Come Back Little Sheba, it could only be because she saw Shirley Booth play Lola on Broadway and knew she would be unfavorably compared.

And she was way too harsh and grounded and sensible to ever play a credible Amanda in The Glass Menagerie.

Davis was a talented actress, if only she'd reigned in those campy mannerisms more. I feel her real forte was adaptations of plays and novels. Her performances in The Little Foxes etc show given the right material she could be very effective. But most of her performances are scenery chewing horrors.

[R243] And she hated the heat and was very uncomfortable, as were all of the actors. The role in THE AFRICAN QUEEN was very physically demanding and she probably thought she wasn't up for it. She wasn't a natural athlete like Hepburn was. She was also recently married to Gary and probably didn't want to leave him. They starred together ANOTHER MAN'S POISON the same year THE AFRICAN QUEEN was released (1951), essentially to enjoy an all-expenses paid extended honeymoon together. It was a big mistake, the film flopped and many blamed her subsequent stalled career momentum on it.

[quote] In 1948 she made Winter Meeting and June Bride (has ANYONE seen them?).

Sad to say that I have.

R246. She was offered the role in 1947 apparently. Way before her marriage to Gary, however the year she gave birth so there was that.

The thread is fascinating, if only to see a bunch of ancient queens get all hot and bothered over a million-year old film and Betty Davis.

I had read that Bette didn't like the director on BEYOND THE FOREST and charged into Jack Warner's office and said: "Jack, one of us has to go - make up your mind - it's him or me."

Warner saw a chance to rid himself of a liability and said: "Okay, Bette, it's you."

Bette finished the picture and drove off the lot.

And when she was doing theatre in the hinterlands - probably that reader's theatre thing - a man came backstage and told her that Warner's was interested in her for the mother role in THE HELEN MORGAN STORY. She didn't believe but sent Warner a telegram:

"Hear you're interested in me for mother HELEN MORGAN STORY."

Warner cabled back: "No Bette. We never even thought of you."

[R247] JUNE BRIDE is a cute but slight rom-com and was a modest hit. WINTER MEETING is dreadfully boring and Bette looks awful in it - unflattering hairstyle (she didn't look good in bangs) and she bought her clothes off the rack at I. Magnin's against the studio's advice.

R172 I agree Merrill was pretty awful.

Celeste Holme commented that Davis and Merrill were obnoxious together, infatuated with themselves and each other, spoiled and egocentric.

[R249] Please, bitch! 53 is old but not "ancient!"

[quote] Her performances in The Little Foxes etc show given the right material she could be very effective.

Pauline Kael, who was a huge admirer of Bette Davis, said that her performance in The Little Foxes was too dry and Tallulah Bankhead in the original Broadway production was better. Apparently, William Wyler, the director of the film, felt that way too, which is why the two clashed while filming it and never worked together again.

I have to give her credit for doing the role her own way without trying to emulate Bankhead. I consider it one of her best performances.

[R252] Celeste Holm had a terrible reputation for being big bitch and a snob so I doubt that Bette was too far off-base.

R249 fuck you. Im 40 and this is why I come to this site. Where else online can you have such interesting discussions on old movies. Now get back to your reality TV kiddo and let the adults talk.

R249 can't spell and can't count, so doesn't get to voice an opinion.

Exactly, R253 and R256! I'm in my late 30s, hardly ancient. I'm a film buff and love classic Hollywood.

R256 here. I actually love you guys. I love how open this site is to different topics. Especially old hollywood.you guys rock xx

I'm 34 and a long and fascinating thread about Joan Crawford brought me here first, some years ago.

I finally saw The Star after many years of curiosity about it.

What a dreary and cheap looking mess (supposedly based somewhat on Joan Crawford's life and career)! It's really shocking that somehow Bette didn't get to work with better material for most of the rest of her career, but especially in the years immediately following her triumph in All About Eve.

[R259] No offense taken - all in good fun.

[quote]The thread is fascinating, if only to see a bunch of ancient queens get all hot and bothered over a million-year old film and Betty Davis.

But not fascinating enough for you to have picked up the correct spelling of her name.

[R261] I actually like THE STAR and it's "cheap" look can at least in part be explained in that it's supposed to have a documentary, "Hollywood exposed" feel. If Bette had done THE AFRICAN QUEEN and COME BACK LITTLE SHEBA and passed on ANOTHER MAN'S POISON then the whole 1950's would have been different for her. But it's not tragic - her destiny was in Maine during that period.

[quote]But ironically and sadly, once Bette left Warners, she never got a great role until 1962's Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

"All About Eve" wasn't a great role?

"The Star" is actually quite a bit of fun if you enjoy it as the campfest it basically is (although it was clearly intended as a serious drama). "Come on, Oscar, let's you and me go get drunk!" (A scene shot with one of Bette's actual Oscars.) I love when she steals the display bottle of "the most expensive perfume in the world" (Desire Me) from the drugstore counter.

Correct, R265: “All About Eve” wan’t great role. It is a wonderful movie. Margo Channing, on the other hand, was a great role

Why was Bette always struggling financially when she made that kind of money for years? She should've been set for life.

Bette was a hot mess before the term was coined.

For operatic excess, blood and thunder and Bette at her most crazed and elemental, BEYOND THE FOREST is quite a thing to behold. True she was miscast, but she plays it with such commitment and ferocity that it becomes strangely poignant, particularly in the lengthy death scene when she succumbs to peritonitis just before boarding the train to Chicago to marry her lover, industrialist Neil K. Latimer.

Among the movie's highlights - she shoots a porcupine for no other reason than, "I don't like porkies - they irritate me!"; she places a bottle of whiskey behind a can of coffee so the her husband's alcoholic older friend will find it and relapse; she shoots said friend when he threatens to expose her affair and gets off by tricking the "hicks" on the jury ("Why should I kill him!? Someone tell me that! Why should I want to?!"); she induces an abortion by jumping off a precipice; she slaps the medicine that would have saved her life out of the hand of her doctor husband in a rage; she complains of her hum-drum life and the outmoded decor in her home ("I want Venetian blinds! All the houses in the magazines have Venetian blinds!"); she abuses her Indian maid in racist language ("No red-faced Indian is going to talk to me that way in my own home!") and later impersonates her so she can sneak out to obtain an illegal abortion. What's not to like?

Definitely worth checking out. The interplay between Bette and the maid alone is worth watching the movie for.

[R268] Though Bette lived modestly for a star of her stature, she had to support her mother in high style, she supported her mentally ill younger sister through children, marriages and divorces and she made her highest earnings during a period of ultra-high taxation (the war years and the years immediately following). She was generous to a fault.

R266 It really is. A few great scenes in Bette Davis’ The Star, as when she snaps at the two “old bags” who discover her character working in a department store. I also liked the brassy sister and layabout brother-in-law. And the scenes where she vamps during a screen test, angling for the lead role of a much younger character. Sterling Hayden looked good.

r271 I completely forgot! Yes, Bette supported her mother, and her mother demanded a lavish lifestyle. The sister was mentally ill and unable to work, so there went more of Bette's money. I believe she may also have paid alimony to two of her ex-husbands.

And don't forget BD, the awful daughter. Never worked a day in her life, had a lazy-ass husband who also didn't like to work, so Bette supported THEM for 20 years. She really spent a fortune on that daughter and useless son-in-law.

If Bette hadn't cut off BD when she did, she would've died broke.

[quote]And the scenes where she vamps during a screen test, angling for the lead role of a much younger character.

After adjusting her costume to appear less frumpy.

"You fans would love it."

[R272] OMG! The screen test scene is riotous! I love it how she haughtily "disregards the stage directions", takes off her "aging" makeup to make herself appear younger and more glamorous and reties the apron she's wearing to give herself - playing a depressed, defeated maid who's witnessed a murder - a more "hourglass" figure. Her expressions when she views the test and realizes how absurd she looks are priceless - you see her dawning realization of who she is and her shame in having to own it. That's why Bette is never pure camp - there are moments where she conveys the most brutal insights of her deepest self.

[quote]That's why Bette is never pure camp - there are moments where she conveys the most brutal insights of her deepest self.

She used that to great effect as Baby Jane. That role could've been a cartoon, but Davis found pathos and you really do feel sorry for her in parts of the film.

She really did deserve the Oscar, that was a fucking fearless performance.

I think the movie gets the joke Dash that these theater people are pretentious and full of themselves, and that’s why Eve was able to trick them so easily.

☝🏼Ugh dictation is never consistent in spelling out a dash —

"Beyond the Forest" is surpisingly dull despite the excess.

[quote] [R249] fuck you. Im 40 and this is why I come to this site

Do you mean, “as in four-O?”

I can’t believe I’m the first to mention this. I love the segment where Bette goes on and on about how she’s a half dead old maid because she’s reaching forty. I loved it when I was forty-ish. Now I’m 58 and have some trouble relating.

I'm currently 41 and I have to say it's pretty spot-on r280. When I'm around people in their 20s (Millennials) I do sometimes feel like I might as well be 105 years old.

I know this is total MARY! but I do think of Margo Channing in those moments.

Why was she mourning at her party? Because of her age? Or was it man-trouble?

She was feeling insecure about getting older because she knew her career was going to wind down, and she was also insecure about Bill (Merrill) because he was significantly younger than her and she thought he might get tired of her because of the age difference. Remember, back then 40 was a lot older than it is now.

I swear if this isn't better than Bette's original scene.....

[quote]Bette claims in MOTHER GODDAM...

I love that she just couldn't come right out and call the book MOTHER FUCKER so instead she slyly entitled it MOTHER GODDAM!

Last time I saw AAE I thought Bette was playing herself but it is still a great performance. Judy Holiday deserved her Oscar.

In the real world, 40 is about 10 years past the "sell-by" date for a fish.

[quote] She was feeling insecure about getting older because she knew her career was going to wind down, and she was also insecure about Bill (Merrill) because he was significantly younger than her and she thought he might get tired of her because of the age difference

Not to mention that conniving slut Eve was trying to move in on her man.

No actress but Bette Davis would have allowed themselves to be shot in her very first scene in the dressing room, wearing a dumpy bathrobe, hair pinned up in a wig cap, with no makeup but cold cream smeared all over her face, playing the glamorous queen of the legitimate theater.

You can be sure Claudette Colbert would have been costumed and made up to look like an imperious version of Katherine Cornell, shot from her best left side. What a different film it would have been. How lucky we are that her back gave out!

And I guess you've all read or heard that Jeanne Crain was being forced on Mankiewicz again as Eve (after A Letter to 3 Wives) but had to back out because of her imminent pregnancy.

Darlings, does nobody remember that I was first offered Margo???

I'm the dame who brought Margo Channing back to Broadway.

"Thirty-nine-ninety-five-isn't-it-lovely."

"The Star" is on TCM on Monday at 2:00 PM ET.

Even though APPLAUSE is not the greatest Broadway musical ever, it's great fun, and at least the creative team reinvented the property and did not try and put the film onstage, moment by moment like so many new screen to stage adaptations are doing now.

[quote]I'm the dame who brought Margo Channing back to Broadway.

And unfortunately unleashed the horror that is Bonnie Franklin on the entertainment world.

[quote] No actress but Bette Davis would have allowed themselves to be shot in her very first scene in the dressing room, wearing a dumpy bathrobe, hair pinned up in a wig cap, with no makeup but cold cream smeared all over her face, playing the glamorous queen of the legitimate theater.

You clearly missed my epic performance in a certain Datalounge movie favorite.

9 to 5 is airing tonight on TCM, fyi.

They weren't able to, r294. The rights to the movie weren't available to them until it was too late. These certainly were....uh...creative lyrics!

[FIRST NIGHTERS]

Ba ba ba ba da bum

Ba ba ba ba da bum

Ba dum ba dum ba dum

Ba dum ba dum ba dum

Ba da ba da ba

Ba da ba wonderful

Ba da ba ba dum

Margo was just ba dum

Ba ba da she's looking mighty

Ba ba da ba ba ba da ba

Wasn't she ba da da

Ba da Mr. Benedict

Ba ba da ba da ba

Ba da ba producer

Ba ba da ba da ba

Ba la la la love it

[EVE]

A heeby deeby deeby deeby dee!

A heeby deeby deeby deeby doo!

[FIRST NIGHTERS]

Critics will certainly ba ba da ba da ba da ba doo

Didn't she da ba da

Dee bee dee marvelous

Ba da ba da ba hit

Look who directed it

Congratulations!

[BUZZ]

Thanks!

[FIRST NIGHTERS]

Ba ba da ba da

[FEMALE FIRST NIGHTER]

Dyah dyah dah da dyah dah dah da

[BILL]

Yes, it sure was

[MALE FIRST NIGHTER]

Dyah dyah dah dah dah dah

Ba da da dum

[BILL]

You can say that again!

[FIRST NIGHTERS]

La la la la la la

La la la la la la

La la la la dee da

Just great!

Hoping things are really ba bah da

So exciting da ba da ba da

Lee bee dee bee doo bee dee

Love him very ba bah da

Wasn't Margo ba bah da?

Thought the play was dee bee dee

Set and lights were dee bee dee

What a hot, hot opening, wow!

Not only did Miss Bacall win a Tony for Applause, she also got to fuck the much younger Len Cariou night after night in her Dakota apartment.

They say that Lauren was hot for Harry Guardino but was angered to discover that he was not into antiques,

Question. what is the name of the modern painting in Margo's apartment to the left of the fireplace. I want a copy.

ooops...i meant to the right of the fireplace. :-)

Len Cariou fucked all his leading ladies, including Betty Bacall, Glynis Johns and Glenn Close. And Roberta Maxwell, who was his first wife.

Did he fuck Angela Lansbury?

Meanwhile ...

Is Eve or Margo the leading role?

Margo but the last 20 minutes Eve feels like the lead like she has stolen the movie.

[quote]Is Eve or Margo the leading role?

Bette Davis and Anne Baxter were both nominated for best actress Oscars, if that tells you anything. And it's Eve's name in the title. But Bette always felt that both of them being in the same category is one reason she didn't win. Despite that, Bette and Anne remained good friends, and when Bette won the Sarah Siddons Award, it was Anne who presented it to her. Yes, the award that Joe Mankiewicz invented for the screenplay eventually became an actual thing.

I feel like The Favourite has a similar structure to All About Eve and that Olivia Colman and Emma Stone were both lead actresses in the film.

So have we covered the film for now? Can we put this away until it's shown on TCM again in 6 months?

Suppose we could move on to Letter to Three Wives.

"A Letter to Three Wives" was adapted from the 1945 John Klempner novel, "A Letter to Five Wives," and was to have starred Linda Darnell, Gene Tierney, Maureen O'Hara, Dorothy McGuire, and Alice Faye. But the project was shelved for a couple of years, and by the time the screenplay was done "Five Wives" had been reduced to "Four Wives" and Jeanne Crain and Anne Baxter were cast as two of the wives. Joe Mankiewicz, however, felt the story was too long, and dropped the fourth wife (Baxter).

r298, that just defies be;ief... a high school production of Applause?

How did they do the big dance number in the gay bar?

I love that she just couldn't come right out and call the book MOTHER FUCKER so instead she slyly entitled it MOTHER GODDAM!

Actually, "Mother Goddam" is the name of a famous character in the play "The Shanghai Gesture" that played on Broadway in the 1920s. When they turned the play into a film version was made in 1941, the character (played unbelievably by Una Munson, trying her best) had her name changed to "Mother Gin Sling."

R282/R283, and don't forget, just before the party, while Bill was still away, was the scene where Birdie has the conversation with Margo about Eve "studying" her. And then Eve comes in and slyly drops that she sent Bill a happy birthday message from Margo... and one from herself. And before the party, Margo "catches" Bill having what seems like an intimate conversation with Eve. She then has the fight with Bill where she echos everything Birdie said about Eve and Bill dismisses and refuses to comfort her. To add insult to injury, Addison shows up with Miss Caswell on his arm and Lloyd brushes off Margo's discomfort at playing another young woman of 20 (the Cora part) with what seems like a patronizing "Margo, you're ageless."

Margo's aging, Bill and Eve's youth, and Margo's insecurities about her love life and career all came to a crashing head at that party.

^ I should have added that's what makes the Margo character so great. Typical Hollywood crap would have Margo just be jealous about Eve and Bill. Or mad because she was "too old" for a part. The script actually weaves together a far more complex character, who has multiple issues coming to a head that all concentrate in the scheming Eve.

Plus, Bette had to deal with keeping Claudette Colbert's annoying sleeves from falling off her shoulders. and IMHO she wasn't very successful!

Why the hell didn't Mank ask ME???

"You learned a lot from that salesman from Cincinnati, didn’t you?

Oh, there was nothin’ that he didn’t know..."

It was a FRENCH VENTRILOQUIST, not a salesman from Cincinnati.

Quote from Whitney Stine's biography of Davis "I'd Love to Kiss You..."

[quote]"Mankiewicz gave me one line that told me exactly what kind of dame Margo Channing was in All About Eve. He said, ‘She treats her mink coat like a poncho.’ Pow! Lightning struck.” (p. 213)

R320, which he no doubt learned from me!

Speaking of her fur, why do you think Margo rubs if over Max' head when she passes him entering the theatre for Eve's audition?

R322, I think it's more of a 'I don't care that you're here and I don't care if my fur hits you' more than choosing to do it.

R303, Len was fucking Glenn when he was in Sweeney Todd. When he's giving his acceptance speech at the 1979 Tony Awards, they mistakenly identify Glenn as "Mrs. Len Cariou" when they cut to her sitting in the audience for a reaction shot.

And Dame Angela, R303?

R308, How ironic that Anne replaced Bette in the series "Hotel" when Bette had her stroke.

R303, What about Elizabeth Taylor during the filming of the ALNM movie?

Caffeine makes me jittery, so after eight shows a week I like to relax by going down on my leading man. Mmmmmm...I love the flavah...and you will too.

LOL!

Watching Columbo yesterday, Anne Baxter was the big guest star in it and the villain. It's a shame that Bette didn't do a Columbo movie. Janet Leigh did one too. I think it would have been a lot of fun to watch Bette and Peter Falk play cat and mouse.

The Ruth Gordon one is the best.

I just watched the Honor Blackman and Richard Basehart one who didn’t really play it as villains. You almost felt sorry for them.

I love that Anne Baxter episode of Columbo because it is rife with little in-jokes and nods to All About Eve.

Margo Channing: When we get home you're going to get into one of these girdles and *act* for two and a half hours.

Birdie Coonan: I couldn't get into *the girdle* in two and a half hours.

Here's your goddam ombre chiffon, Anne!

Is that the real Edith Head ?

Edith Head with Margo's party dress.

In the Columbo episode? Yes, it was. The scene was filmed in her real life office and one of her Oscars in the background was the one she won for All About Eve. Like I said above, their were all sorts of little winks and nods to Eve in that episode.

Sorry, that's not really Edith Head, it's the actress who played her in that one-woman show a few years ago. Whoops, my mistake! I don't know if that's the real All About Eve dress.

When are they showing "All About the Three Faces of the Lady Eve?"

r315, I would also add that because of Margo's conversation with Birdie and the fact that Margo referred to growing up working class, there's was a part of her that Birdie woke up and she knew in her heart that Eve was up to no good. Yes, there were insecurities but I've always thought people who analyze the character have a tendency to make too much of Margo's insecurities. Remember what she told Bill after they had that big backstage argument after they both calmed down. "I don't know Bill. It's just a feeling I have." The way Bette Davis said that line was one of the most vulnerable moments for Margo but for me, it also said that she knew deep in her soul something wasn't right with all that has transpired since she brought Eve into her home.

What made Bette Davis so great was that she could always find so much subtext in her characters. There were a lot of layers to the way she played her roles.

Thelma Ritter is great in this. She also seems to vanish in much the same way in "The Misfits."

Bette was in a Perry Mason but I don't know if she was the villain...

I honestly can't remember ever seeing Thelma Ritter in anything where she didn't steal ever scene she was in.

[quote]Bette was in a Perry Mason but I don't know if she was the villain.

No. She played a Perry substitute when Raymond Burr was out with an injury. Her name was Constant (yes, Constant, not Constance) Doyle, and her client was played by a young, hunky Michael Parks.

Other Burr replacements during that period were Hugh O'Brian, Michael Rennie, and Mike Connors.

Bette's Perry Mason episode used to be on Youtube (it was taken down) and she was very good in it.

R345, Was Ray having a complicated hysterectomy?

Bette said that Gary Merrill really fell in love with Margo Channing and was disappointed that, in real life, Bette was nothing like Margo.

I found the script.

Bette as Sarah Siddons...

I wish the Bette on Perry Mason was still on Youtube

"I'm a Loy - YAH!"

She did however play a major cunt on Alfred Hitchcock............

r352 that awful "Dead Ringer" wig! Ugh. Bette wore it constantly for several years, both in roles she played and in real life. One of the worst wigs I've ever seen.

That cannot be Bette Davis's actual costume, R336. It looks as if it was made of coffin lining.

The actual costume was a reddish brown fabric. It was chosen for the way it photographed in black and white. An actual black dress would have all but disappeared. The fabric chosen seemed to be black, but gave the eye all the detail in the costume.

There has been a LOT written about that dress.

Same wig, r354?

R342 Maybe the writers and directors figured, OK we’ve had our fun with Thelma stealing scenes, now we have to move the story forward and resolve it, so her character has to just go. She was that good.

When Anne Baxter replaced Lauren Bacall as Margo in "Applause," Bette went to see her friend in the show. Afterward, Bette said nice things about the musical, but also said she missed the "wonderful" Birdie character, who had been turned into Margo's gay hairstylist for the musical, which was set in 1970 rather than 1950.

Was that John Ritter?

No, someone even nellier.

R360 She's no longer a gypsy!

An understudy's performance! It will be forgotten tomorrow.

I wonder if the filmed version of Applause is available anywhere. I remember watching when I was a very little and couldn’t believe they had male nudity.

Boy.

Applause was available on YouTube at one point. I watched the whole thing on a plane.

Had the cast album as a kid and always loved “One Halloween.” “And Daddy said wash your face! You look like a whore!”

Just when you think everything that can be said about AAE the thread keeps going.

How do other iconic films like The Women and Stage Door rank with DL aficionados? Would their threads last as long?

I saw Stage Door for the first time a few months ago, and I thought it was terrific. What I found interesting is that Ginger Rodgers held her own against Katharine Hepburn. Both were the highlights of the film. I went into the movie thinking that Katharine Hepburn would steal it from everyone since this is the particular genre of comedy where she shines, however, Ginger Rodgers was every bit as entertaining and witty as Kate.

Honestly, Kate was no different in this film than she was in Morning Glory, her debut movie where she won her first Oscar. She was playing the same type of character. And just like Morning Glory, Adolphe Menjou was her love interest.

Actually, let me make a correction, Morning Glory wasn't her debut. She made her debut in A Bill of Divorcement.

Kate won her first Oscar for Morning Glory.

[quote]How do other iconic films like The Women and Stage Door rank with DL aficionados?

"The Women" was also musicalized.

I never miss a June slappin' Joan musical!

[quote]How do other iconic films like The Women and Stage Door rank with DL aficionados? Would their threads last as long?

"The Women," especially, is much loved on DL (even if Norma Shearer isn't), R368, and has been the topic of many discussions.

R40 in the short story The Wisdom of Eve, Eve hands Margola a letter, which she forgets about. Eve keeps asking her if she's read it, and Margola says "no." Eventually Margola catches Eve trying to steal the letter back. This peaks Margola's interest, so she reads it. It's a letter from a fan who heard Eve rehearsing Margola's part, saying how wonderful Eve was. Margola later theorizes that Eve wrote it herself.

My Novel into Film professor at Emerson theorized that the line in the movie was simply about dispensing with that clunky device from the short story. A weird Easter egg for people who knew the story.

The interesting thing about Applause is that originally, the producers secured only the rights to Mary Orr's short story The Wisdom of Eve. Therefore, elements that were invented for the film, like Bertie, could not be used. Eventually, late into production, the producers struck a deal with 20th Century Fox allowing them to use elements of All About Eve, including the name Margo Channing, which was invented for the movie. And I believe they inserted a "Bumpy Night" song. However, it was too far along in production to add Bertie.

June really was bustin' out all over. Thank goodness for those depends.

That would be Fasten Your Seatbelts, r376.....

With an exclusion of some DL meanies I think Norma Shearer has more than few fans here.

"All About Eve" onstage, but without songs. (I also posted this on the theater thread.)

Who knew Alexis Smith once did Applause in summer stock?

With Pia Zadora, no less.

^^Diane McAfee was originally cast as Eve on Broadway but was fired and replaced by Penny Fuller.

I did NOT fire her!

I saw Eleanor Parker in the tour.

Diane McAfee met Brandon Maggart, who played the producer, when both were cast in "Applause." They got married. Their daughter is Fiona Apple.

Except Brandon Maggart played the playwright (Hugh Marlowe in the film), not the producer who was played by Robert Mandan who went on to the TV sitcom Soap (spacing on his name). And the producer charcater was sort of a mash up of the film's Broadway producer and Addison deWitt.

I think Brandon Maggart also was in some 80's Showtime comedy called "Brothers."

[quote]Except Brandon Maggart played the playwright (Hugh Marlowe in the film), not the producer who was played by Robert Mandan

Thanks for clearing that up.

It's a shame Manciewicz and Davis never did another film together.

I wonder if Mankiewicz considered Bette for Katharine Hepburn's role in Suddenly Last Summer. She would have been great (better?) casting and we all know Kate hated working with Mank.

Did he make any other great films post-Eve? And I'm not counting Cleopatra among them.

[quote]It's a shame Manciewicz and Davis never did another film together.

She was too old to play Cleopatra in 1963.

Was Mank horrible? I hear Kate spit in his face after the filming of Suddenly, Last Summer.

thanks R376 - good tidbits, I’m happy to have the letter thing cleared up at last.

Supposedly Kate was furious with Mank's treatment of Montgomery Clift, which she found cruel and unrelenting.

She asked Mank if her last take was truly her last on the film, and when he confirmed it was, she spat on him and left the set.

Bertie??

Just thinking about Bette as Cleopatra (instead of Liz) is hilarious.

I saw a tour of Applause with opera star Patrice Munsel as Margo. She was dreadful but it was otherwise pretty good. Diane McAfee, the Eve fired out of town as mentioned above was Eve and Pia Zadora had the Bonnie Franklin role. They and the rest of the cast were more than fine but there was a big hole in the center of the production.

Lauren’s High Point with Lou for R328

R396, How about Bette in "The Barefoot Contessa"?

Long before High Point, there was Maxwell House.

As I was saying . . .

"I'll admit I've seen better days, still I won't be had for the price of a cocktail, like a salted peanut."

[quote]Diane McAfee met Brandon Maggart, who played the producer, when both were cast in "Applause." They got married. Their daughter is Fiona Apple.

They never married. And their other daughter is chanteuse Maude Maggart.

Did Pia Zadora play the part originated by DL icon Miss Bonnie Franklin?

R323 - the script describes Margo's fur action as follows: Margo marches down the aisle with a steady pace. She passes Max who smiles a sickly, hopeful smile. She ignores him as if he were a used paper cup.

Whenever I watch I imagine Jean Simmons as Eve, Mitchum as Bill, Lee J. Cobb and Marsha Hunt as Lloyd and Karen.

[quote]Did Pia Zadora play the part originated by DL icon Miss Bonnie Franklin?

She did in the Patrice Munsel tour I saw and mentioned above. Tiny little girl with a huge, huge voice, The audience loved her.

I saw a play which had a scene in a gay bar. One man said his favorite film was AAE and he knew every line. He challenged the friend to quote a line so he could say what scene it was from. The friends quotes "Fasten you seatbelts" and the man said that was too easy and he came back with what he thought was a more obscure one - "I guess at this point I'm what the French call 'de trop'".

A waiter approaches with a note for Karen. She stares at it curiously, then opens it.

tttLLOYD t Very discreet. A note right out in t the open like that. Next time tell t your lover to blow smoke rings - or t tap a glass...

what if Eve had just knocked on Margo's door and said, 'Hello. I know I'm disturbing you but I don't know what else to do. My name is Eve Harrington and I'm an actress. I think you're wonderful Miss Channing and I'd greatly appreciate any support or advice you could give me."

It would have been the 'heave ho!'

The above All About Eve stage show makes me want to catch a Greyhound from Kentucky to go see it. Just kidding last time I checked bus ticket prices they were through the roof. I thought the new show was a musical. The review said it had 2 songs by PJ Harvey. She she sing them or characters in the show ?

It will be sold out because all the X Files nuts will go to see Gillian and keep hoping David will make a cameo.

R411, I read reviews for the stage version of AAE - they are tepid at best. Reviewers love Anderson and Julian Ovenden as Bill... other supporting actors too. Lily James as Eve? Not so much.

AND, while this is a stage show, it makes liberal use of video... something some found distracting.

I was very excited about the play, and wondering if I will go see on 04/11.

I heard that story about Katherine Hepburn spitting in Man’s and wasn’t impressed. It would have been better if she spit in his eye during production. What would have happened? I don’t think they would have fired her.

Davis was SLS screenwriter Gore Vidal's first choice to play Violet. Imagine Davis in an SLS sequel combining Lady in a Cage, Sweet Charlotte, and Grey Gardens as Violet, returned from the asylum and rigorous shock treatment, descends the elevator once again.

Davis could also have reunited nicely with Mankiewicz in Susan Hayward's Honey Pot role.

The entire AAE script...

ttMARGO: Encore du champagne.

ttCAPTAIN :More champagne, Miss Channing?

ttMARGO: That's what I said, bub.

R322: Re: Margo's "fur action" (which sounds like two dykes making love), with Max:

When Margo marches down the aisle, she has just been informed that Eve was made her understudy and she's furious with Max for having known about it and not telling her. He's the one person she can intimidate and does so by sweeping her coat over him to show that he is nothing.

Not to hijack the thread, but Thelma Ritter's disappearance from the film midway isn't the first time a character mysteriously vanishes with no explanation. Others include:

Barbara Bel Geddes from "Vertigo" (she's Jimmy Stewart's friend and unrequited lover). Where does she go after Jimmy has his breakdown?

Geraldine Chaplin from "Dr. Zhivago". She's Omar Shariff's wife and refugees to Paris with their child after Zhivago is kidnapped and we never hear from her again. Also, Julie Christie's first child by Tom Courteney also vanishes from the film.

R418, you don't know about Vertigo's alternate ending with Midge and Scottie? It would have followed what is now the last scene. There's more explanation at the link.

Also, I think Birdie originally had a little more to do the film's second half but the film was running long and her later scenes were among the cuts. Open to correction on that. I have a great book on the making of the film called All About All About Eve but it's packed up where I can't get to it easily right now.

....

[quote] Did Pia Zadora play the part originated by DL icon Miss Bonnie Franklin?

[quote]She did in the Patrice Munsel tour I saw and mentioned above. Tiny little girl with a huge, huge voice, The audience loved her.

Care to imagine how Miss Pia would've essayed the role of Ann Romano?

[quote]The above All About Eve stage show makes me want to catch a Greyhound from Kentucky to go see it. Just kidding last time I checked bus ticket prices they were through the roof.

I can imagine. The cost of shipping a bus across the Atlantic must be astronomical!

R381, Not to digress, but an interesting interview with Alexis. The interviewer seemed unaware of her Broadway career.

It's just as well you're not catching that Greyhound, R411. Ben Brantley in the New York Times ripped the stage version of "All About Eve" to shreds.

Brantley has become so benevolent in his theater reviews of recent years (including previous raves for this director) that this take-down is a real shocker. This show must be a real shit fest.

And who would expect less? Who needs to see a lesser version of AAE which any new version is fated to be.

That interview with Alexis....the poor sound makes it unintelligible!

How sad that she had to wait until she was 50 years old to be rediscovered and fully appreciated on Broadway in Follies in 1970. Did Warner Bros have any idea that she could sing, dance, play sophisticated comedy and command a stage as she did in her final years?

R425, Brantley doesn't even mention Julian Ovenden.

A reasonably good film for those days. Not much good by current standards. Black and white was so dumb when they made it. The script is ghastly.

Not nearly as ghastly and incoherent as your prosaic, pedestrian ramble...

And as for Betty Davies' faux-English accent, pohleeeze

True R430. It’s hard getting through those black and white movies with all that talking. And no raccoon flying a spaceship. I don’t get it.

R432 B&W movies went out in 1939, gone with the wind ...

R417 Why is that good, Bub?

The "(we have) a contempt for humanity, an inability to love or be loved" speech by Addison toward the end when he exposes Eve was conformation that they were both gay. You have to put yourself in a time warp to understand it.

r435 that's how I've always interpreted that dialogue. Of course in those days homosexuality had to be talked about in code, due to the crazy censorship of the times.

Not only that, R436, at the time, homosexuals were considered to be tragic perverts who could not love and, those who were not self-pitying, had contempt for humanity and procreation (the purpose of proper sex).

Not only that, R437, homosexuals were also criminals in every American state when the movie was made in 1950.

I can see Eve as not loving or being loved by anyone in the film: she latched onto Margo like a parasite, tried to fuck Bill out from under her, then settled on working Lloyd to keep moving up the ladder to success. While Eve is ingratiating from the get-go, I never really got a lesbian vibe from Eve. George Sanders has that Euro gay drawl that makes every character he plays seem gay.

Who is more poisonous:

Addison DeWitt

Waldo Lydecker

JJ Hunsecker

Poisonous? Too close to call between portrayals by George Sanders and Clifton Webb -- Burt Lancaster's character was more brutal than poisonous, not quite insidious enough. All are fun to watch, but Sanders always wins any contest with me.

No, R435. No.

Not gay. Eve and Addison live and breathe the theater. Show business. Broadway is filled with Addison DeWitts and Eve Harringtons. And they are always treacherous. They have mothers who never picked them up or mothers who never put them down. But the result is about the same. They are snakes. Not to be trusted. They would shoot their own mothers to get the recognition they crave and believe to their cores they are wrongly being denied.

That line is not coded for homosexuality. It means exactly what it says. Contempt for humanity? Inability to love or be loved? Lauren Bacall. Betty Buckley. Elaine Stritch. Linda Lavin on a bad day. Patti Lu. Broadway's full of them. And those are just the actresses. How about David Merrick, the Abominable Showman? The film is about these larger than life monsters that we endure because they have that certain something on a stage that comes along all too rarely. With a life time in the movies, Joe Mankiewicz knew them well. It's a fool's game lifting a few words out of a very plainly written script and slathering with your own made up meaning.

In a modern context r441 that line could be interpreted as homosexuality.

R439, you're right. NOT.

Regardless of your "vibes," the filmmakers had their own ideas.

No, it really could not.

You would have to excise it entirely from the actual scene of the actual script that the actual author wrote. Then you would have to paste it into your newly invented 'modern context' that has nothing to do with the author's intent. That's a huge disservice to a very fine writer.

Ripped from the scene for which it was written, the words could be ascribed just about any meaning. But if we are interpreting Mankiewicz, it has nothing to do with homosexuality.

R441, how old are you? You seem to be under thirty, which means all books - no life - you opinion means very little.

Mankiewicz very well could've been insinuating homosexuality with that line. As has been said, it all had to be done in code.

It's only to be expected Birdie isn't in the second half of the film.

[quote] I closed the first half for eleven years an' you know it!

R419 I die of apartment envy.