Jazz Jennings: Complications and Implications

Is it wrong that I imagine Jazz speaking with the Jiz voice?

R1 Hah! Hell, no!

Thanks for linking to previous thread, OP.

Bringing my posts over from the previous thread for any newbies who end up here.

The real nitty gritty about dilation. Written in 2012, before the world went fully trans crazy.

From the link:

"The neovagina is an artificially created opening into the body. Because your genetic code has no plan for an opening there, your body will simply heal what it considers to be a gaping wound and close the neovagina completely and permanently. The tissue surrounding the neovagina, including the PC muscle, were pushed aside during the dissection of neovaginal cavity. These tissues will attempt to move back into their original positions. So in order to keep it open, we must insert something into the neovagina on a regular and frequent basis. Such a device is called a stent or dilator."

If posters here read further than the excerpt, and I hope they do, the site mentions that dilation is something SRS patients will have to do (though at lesser intervals) FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES.

Keep dilating, Peggy! Please keep dilating!

NEOvagina? Like neo Nazis?

Neo was in The Matrix..... OMG we’re in the MATRIX!!!!

It’s a dirty pocket.

Test

So Jazz has a boyfriend now? I don't remember him.

Plus the guy who is supposedly her bf looks either completely disinterested or a poorly paid actor who can't bother to put in the effort.

WTF?!

I know that on DL, female genitalia often gets a bad rap for being "stinky," but realistically, a healthy vaj is a self-cleaning mucus membrane that should not have a smell.

The "neovaginas" however, have to fucking reek. Think about all that loose skin on your dick and balls and how musty it can get if you don't wash thoroughly and often, and then imagine all of that inverted into a dark moist pocket that traps sweat and dead skin cells. It's like bellybutton odor times a thousand. *shudder*

Agree R12. Surgeons can only do so much, and you can't transform a penis into a vagina. They're different organs with different functions.

R12 Eaxctly! And I don't see anyone talking about the risks of infection for the sexual partner if he sticks his penis in that moldy wound. Why is this ignored?

Apparently one of the complications with Jazz’s surgery that is not being reported is that the skin graft did not work and the tissue is going necrotic.

Even more weird, does a neo vag get STI's? Like chlamydia? Herpes? Normally these things need a mucus membrane.

Welcome to a life of no orgasms ever Jazz!!!!

R15, isn’t that life threatening if they don’t remove the dead skin? Then what? The pain must be horrible.

Is Jazz prepared for the fact that sex in the beginning will always be painful and bloody? Is her boyfriend? It's one thing to deflower a virgin girl, but this would surely freak a guy out.

I’d be scared that my penis would tear the delicate skin and she would hemorrhage and have to go to the hospital. It’s no joke to tear an opening into the body cavity. Tons of opportunity for a life threatening infection there. Who wants to kill somebody with their dick?

Jazz and her family don’t seem to understand how easily she could die. Or that she could spend most of her adult life having surgery after surgery, trying to correct the problems the last surgeon created.

Where’s the money for all this coming from when the show is over? How much of this is covered by insurance? Where’s she going to be in 15-20 years when the show is over and she’s still having issues that need surgical correction? What if she can’t pay for it?

If she’s smart, she’ll just have anal. At least she can’t die from that.

The overwhelming impression I get is that she and her family think everything is guaranteed to go smoothly, which is highly unrealistic. This is experimental surgery. Going by her tweets, she thinks this is just a temporary setback and in the end she’ll have a perfect vagina. Where’s the tissue coming from next time, and if the next attempt fails, where’s it coming from next time? She’s only got so much stomach lining.

They said this is the first time this particular surgery was done. What’s the long term implications for wear and tear? Nobody knows. And she’s young. It has to last fifty or sixty years, and all through her youth when a partner will want a lot of sex. This is not like a fifty year old having surgery.

I’m afraid the long term implications are that she ends up having ten or fifteen surgeries until she gives up. And what partner is putting up with that? A lot of people would just leave. I’m sure that doesn’t even occur to her and her family. Their whole lives revolve around her health. Potential partners are not spending their lives talking about nothing but dilation procedures and corrective surgery. They will get fed up with it.

I’m saying that as a person who was really sick in my twenties. My partner got sick of my constant health issues and how they restricted our lives together, and dumped me. And that was nothing compared to this. Well people don’t want to be held back by sick people. Harsh, but it’s the truth.

My guess is ten or fifteen years from now Jazz will be bitter and making a living as some kind of sex worker to pay for more surgery.

He .

How could they do this to their kid AND put it on TV?

She can get a herpetic infection from contact, but yes, I imagine the penises that go in there are subject to whatever infections might be lingering in her crotchal pocket. I am thinking of the kind of skin infections those people on 600-pound life get in their folds. Being so close to other organs and intestines, I bet those infections could be incredibly dangerous.

I think her mother has a variety of Munchausen fueled by social media and being perceived as “woke” that could lead to all sorts of other afflictions. Who’s to say the next kidvictim isn’t a dual-sexual with a penis and a vagina, maybe just for grins a hand, in its nether regions?

Asserting that you can transform a man into a woman is medical malpractice on multiple levels.

I’d say one serious possibility is becoming a drug addict from the heavy duty pain killers they must have to give her. And we all know how difficult it is to get pain killers now. If you cut off pain killers for a person with chronic pain, many of them end up buying drugs in the streets. Or drinking heavily to numb the pain.

I ran into a woman a while back who had a painful foot issue she couldn’t afford to treat. She was a waitress. Her friend told me, she just drinks all day to endure the pain.

The pain level Jazz must be enduring must be horrible. I can see her parents telling her older brothers to go in the street and buy painkillers for her when they cut her off. And then the brother has legal problems too if he gets caught, which he would because they cannot shut up about anything. Or she ends up ODing and her doctors find out that way. Which means they would cut her off. Pain management in this country is atrocious or non-existent now.

This whole family’s dynamic is Jazz comes first uber alles. When things go to shit, the whole family is going to be dragged down into it.

No way would I let my "daughter" or son, for that matter, go on TV and wave dildos, I mean "vagina expanders," around. It's unseemly. Do we want to see a bio teenager do that? Yeah, so I'm old fashioned when it comes to family. A little privacy, please.

Also, what's going on with her mouth in that clip? She looks like she had a stroke.

R27, I hate to say this, but people who have major surgery sometimes do have strokes. It’s not uncommon to have a blood clot get loose.

It can happen to young people as well, sometimes women in labor have them. It happened to a cat I had. Major surgery and then a stroke as a surgical complication.

I’m not saying it happened to Jazz, but if she has one major surgery after another she is definitely at higher risk.

Dr. Jess Ting visited them at their hotel and found that the color of the skin along the edge of the wound looked “dusky, kind of bluish.” Yes, like necrotic skin. And yeah, Marci Bowers saying it was a patchwork vagina did not bode well. JFC, what a risk to take for a cosmetic procedure.

Anyone who would trade in a working penis, testicles, and scrotum for a rotting fake vagina must be mentally ill. Such people should be protected from themselves, not encouraged.

R21 this is very true. Young guys these days are selfish and cannot even live without sex one week if their gf has her period. Imagine waiting around for weeks or months to have sex. And when you do have sex, you have to be extremely gentle or the fake vag will rip open. What straight guy will sign up for that? The level of delusion is mind-boggling.

R29 I didn’t know his name was Jess Ting - jesting? Seriously? Fucking hilarious, talk about nominative determinism...

r29 He shortened it, it was "Sum Ting Wong"

Or writing an insider tells all story, r21.

R21, sorry to hear you got dumped due to having to endure a period of illness. Obviously you are better off without that immature brat.

Are you doing better these days?

Did you know that when an MTF sees a doctor about her perforated neo-vag, she's examined by a gynecologist, not a colorectal specialist? Yes, a gynecologist examines an artificially created hole that has no functions of an actual vagina. Let that sink in.

Oh dear. 'My vagina fell apart' ‘I Am Jazz’ Spoilers: Jazz Jennings Scary Post-Surgery ‘Pop’ – Second Operation Needed ASAP

Wow, R36. How many different branches of medical science have to reject actual medical science in order to humor trans people?

Eeek r37

It seems FTM surgery is even more dangerous. Quite a number of court cases scheduled for the first quarter of this year. All against one surgeon who is supposed to be the best in his field. The documented evidence is horrifying.

Jazz says she likes dilating because it reminds her she has a vage.

r36 I don't know that they HAVE to see an OB/GYN but I do know that they are now trying to make ob/gyns continue education to treat trans patients. I also know that my 73 year old Jewish doctor Janet Schwartz would laugh her ass off if it were suggested to her she do a pelvic on a dude. And at r37 "I got a peak at it and laughed" Jesus, Jazz, too bad you didn't stay in school instead of lopping off your dick.

R38 If we have to pretend that morbidly obese people are 'healthy at any size', the sky is the limit. I mean, medical professionals are not allowed to tell them they are eating themselves to death, because that would be fat-shaming, right? Logic and reason are already dead.

Yeah that's true r43! I just saw an article about how sharing weight loss photos is fat shaming, but then I read an article about how proud Drew Barrymore is to be losing weight and how bad ass she is. I mean, that must have taken some balls to write the Drew article because it could be considered literal violence against butter huffers.

R40 wasn't there an FTM youtuber who talked about having to dilate his urethra with a metal tube so it wouldn't close up because of all the scar tissue? I think his fake dick was eventually removed because of all the infections and necrosis.

R37 no actual woman would tweet about her vaginal surgery! Women don't even routinely talk about periods among themselves. Jazz is displaying typical male behavior.

R42 Here is a medical article that describes a case of neovaginal perforation following sexual intercourse. The MTF patient came to the hospital and was examined by a GYN department, where gynecologists examined discharge coming from an inverted ball sack. They treated the case as vaginal perforation, because neo-vag = vag. This is fucked up!

If the parents had waited a few years, their youngest son would have realized his attraction to boys and would have made the surgery totally unnecessary.

R48 they wouldn't have had to wait if he hadn't been given puberty blockers. He would have developed as a normal boy, whatever his sexual orientation.

R35, yes, I’m doing a lot better, thanks for asking. I had really severe ulcerative colitis. The doctor was talking about taking out some intestine. I didn’t want to do that because once it’s gone, you can never get it back.

Eventually I made a complete recovery without surgery. But it took years, and that guy was long gone.

We had a lot of conversations about how self-indulgent I was being by being so sick, how I could get better if only I applied myself, and how he was so tired of it. He told me he would leave me if I didn’t get better soon, and I was hanging on to my job by my fingernails because I missed so much time. I was going to work deathly ill every day. I didn’t have a supportive family like Jazz, so I was scared shitless.

Eventually he dumped me and I slowly got better. He was no prize himself, but a lot of guys aren’t going to take that into consideration. It really opened my eyes. I didn’t realize how impatient somebody could be about illness. My illness was related to extreme stress, and he was a part of that, but not all of it.

But in Jazz’ case, this is self inflicted. There is so much propaganda about how this is easily achievable, which is false, and that the people soon recover without incident, which is false. I can see some PC young person thinking Jazz has got it covered, the neo-vag is a done deal and is just like a wonan’s, and then they stick something up there and tear it. Midnight hospital trip, upset parents and siblings, anxious waiting in the hospital waiting room, a doctor comes out and says more surgery is required. Once a guy realizes she’s going to be one long medical emergency after another, he’s out of there.

My personality really changed when I was sick. Crying and depressed all the time, in pain all the time. I was told I’d be sick the rest of my life and I was young. After a couple of years of illness with no real solutions, I just wanted to die. I found out that people with chronic illness almost always become depressed. It’s not just emotional stress, it’s a physical symptom of illness. Even pets become depressed from physical illness. They’re not sad, their body isn’t producing the right chemicals for normal behavior. Same with humans.

I can tell you where Jazz will be in a few years, if she continues to have complications and doesn’t heal right. Her bouncy personality will be ruined from chronic pain, she’ll have anxiety attacks (which is what happens when you’re afraid of getting sick out somewhere all the time), she’ll be a brittle, anxious, exhausted, easily upset shell of her former self. I was.

Then there’s the dread she’ll feel after a few disastrous dates with a few jerks that treat her like a freak show instead of a person. More anxiety. A few of those and she’ll be afraid to date. As Mark Twain once wrote, “the burnt Experiment shuns the fire.”

Bouncy personality r50? Jazz is a sullen, depressed, moody creep.

I haven’t watched the show for years. She was bouncy to start with.

When I was watching, she had friends and went to school. What happened?

She had an intestine macrame'd onto her urethra and was told it was the answer to her prayers r52.

Seriously, when did she drop out of school? Why did the friends dump her? Is she getting any education or did she just give up on it?

Jazz switched to an online school because he was having a difficult time in regular high school. Not due to bullying, but because he was not adjusting to high school socially, was losing friends from his younger years, and felt socially isolated.

FTM surgery: an actual nightmare

I find it ridiculous how they always say that his hole will look just like a real vagina. The level of delusion! I remember seeing pics of an MTF neo-vagina that looked nothing like the real deal and wasn't even anatomically correct. Yet fellow MTFs were commenting on how realistic it looked. Either they don't know what a real vagina looks like (with free porn easily available?) or they are deliberately lying to themselves.

Yes, MtTs with a genital surgical scar can get STIs....

"Gonorrhoea of the sigmoid neovagina in a male-to-female transgender."

Full details below

MtTs also are getting candidiasis - a fungal infection.

Well Jazz sure looked ok in the coming attractions. I do have a question tho, is Dr. Ting a transgender also?

I keep hearing them say that a neovagina is self-lubricating. How? Since when is penis, scrotum or colon self-lubricating?

I wondered that too r60 he didnt used to look like it but lately his face is softer and hairless. I am shocked, shocked! that Bowers put her name on this, but not as the head doctor on the case.

I can understand wanting to dress as a woman and grow breasts, do makeup whatever but why do trans people subject themselves to painful operations?

r20 the tearing thing freaks me out too. It can happen to a woman who was born a woman and be fatal so I would think trans women are at more of a risk. A biological woman actually died in Canada a few years ago by bleeding out of a deep wound in her vagina caused by rough sex.

Apparently the prostate and Cowpers glands can release a small amount of lubricant, r61, although I have no idea how any of it works. At the end of the day you still have a bacteria-filled surgical cavity. Madness.

But since Jazz didn’t go through puberty, are those glands even mature enough to do so?

What about the hair follicles in the skin used to make the inverted neovagina? Does that hair keep growing? If so, that nasty, smelly pocket is going to be a hairy, nasty, smelly pocket.

Look at the body modification in R56. Those ears are a sign of disturbance. Someone is really suggesting this isn't a form of mental illness?

R67 I think I read somewhere about MTFs getting electrolysis first, before the surgery. Otherwise you end up with a hairy vaginal canal. Gross!

FREAK SHOW.

Yeah they do r69, I read it too, like it was so not a big deal, sounds like more pain and grossness.

Jazz never went through puberty so he was probably hairless before the inside out-ness

They used the stomach lining anyway, so no hair issues for him, I guess.

Some dumb fucking frau on Twitter wrote, "Girl, my VJ was torn apart too when I had my daughter, it healed though! We women are strong".

maybe a bit of indigestion tho

Did they end up using skin grafts from its rectum?

R74 the fact that women support this nonsense pisses me off! Jazz will never have to deal with periods, never mind the child birth. How can she call herself a woman?

How can she call HIM a woman?

Cause she's an asshole tranny handmaiden and that daughter who ripped up her "VJ" will be losing sports scholarships to boys in dresses in a few years, then she can commiserate about us women and how hard it is to be a girl.

The woman at R24 was probably just trying to be kind and encouraging. The problem with that is, it sounds like many doctors and other people have minimized the complications for Jazz and she has an unrealistic idea of how difficult this will be long term. It will never be over.

[quote]Did they end up using skin grafts from its rectum?

No, the stomach. They decided against the sigmoid colon procedure— the one with the side effect of smelling like literal shit— to this brand new, experimental procedure of grafting stomach lining. But from the sounds of it, it didn’t take.

I have searched Google to try to find a photo of a MTF post-op "vagina" but nothing is coming up except illustrations? If someone has a link of an actual post-op photo please post!

Also I feel terrible for Jazz. The last show I saw, he was preparing for his surgery, complaining to his mom about how difficult dating is because he is ashamed of his body and dating goes nowhere because he is not comfortable having sex. He kept referring to how he can't wait to get his "beautiful vagina". I'm sad for him because all of these people around him, promising a "beautiful vagina" and we know that is never going to happen.

So no colon mucous. That's nice. How about hydrochloric stomach acids?

Oh hell R84 I never thought about that. Imagine sticking your dick in that and pulling it out all excoriated from the stomach acids!??

If the skin graft does not take, what happens then? Do they have to try the colon surgery?

Think of all the people who have died on the table - think of Kanyes mom.

Should have left well enough alone and let Jarron be a femme boy, those other boys still get on the Today Show and live without medical complications.

R82 if you can stomach it, here is a vid. NSFW obviously. Looks anatomically nothing like a real vagina. Why the surgeon made a hole below the labia is beyond me. But they are convinced that no bio male would be able to tell the difference, LOL!

Thank you R87!!

That guy at r87's video should be pissed off because that looks NOTHING like a vagina. When women close their legs, you don't see a clit, you see the labia majora closed together, to form a line in the middle where they meet. This guy's, what I suspect is supposed to be his "clit" is on the outside of that when he closes his legs. The actual hole is weirdly placed, like it's not attached to the rest of the game vulva the way a woman's would be.

What a mess. A dark tinged, sloppy, biologically incorrect mess.

Auto correct added game for some unknown reason, but somehow it fits.

I'm truly afraid to watch the video.

R91 - there is bruising.

The hole, or faux vagina, doesn't sit between the labia minora the way a biological woman's does either. It's as though his surgeons never saw a real vagina and just winged it.

One of the major aesthetic problems with these “neovags” is that they are, by necessity, placed too damned high on the men’s torso. This is due to the location of their dick and the shape of the male pelvis. A vagina just wasn’t designed to be there.

It’s a bit like having a belly button on your sternum; it clearly reads as artificial to anyone familiar with a female body.

I watched the first 10 minutes or so of the video. I think that the surgeon did a decent job but the reality is that nobody is going to be fooled into thinking that is a natural woman's anatomy. The proportions are completely off and other issues as explained by R89 & R93 & R94.

That looks nothing like a real vagina. It’s a shame that he mutilated a perfectly health sex organ to satisfy his mental illness.

I'd really love to hear from a man who has actually stuck his dick into one of these fauxginas and what the experience was like for him.

r94 In other words, a literal "gunt".

[quote]I'd really love to hear from a man who has actually stuck his dick into one of these fauxginas and what the experience was like for him.

Pretty sure we had a guy on one of the deleted threads relating his or a male friend’s story about fucking one. He mentioned that because there is no muscle, it’s not tight the way a real vagina is, no actual muscle contraction or expansion. It’s just sort of there. And he remarked on the odor.

Interesting R99, I hadn't thought about the lack of vaginal walls and the tightness factor. I probably don't want to hear the answer but how did he describe the odor?

I only know guys who have has sex with pre op trans women. They liked the fact that they had dicks.

I wouldn't know if that looked like a vag or not. So many are nasty and flappy. Who has the stomach to pay that close attention?

I can't believe the utter selfishness and shory-sightedness of Jazz's parent's. As R50 has commented on, the chance of becoming surgically injured and ultimately, chronically ill, is very real and could be utterly devastating to anyone, nevermind someone as young and developmentally immature as Jazz. It's one thing to let your kid to play around with hormones ( which is damaging enough) if they seriously consider themselves transgender, but to let them risk their lives or risk becoming disabled through an ELECTIVE surgery at a young age is unconsciounable.

I know somewhat where of I speak: a surgeon ( my gyn) I trusted for 11 years performed a hystetectomy that she convinced me I needed. When I woke, she told me she had found none of the damage she jad originally diagnosed but "removed my reproductive organs anyways". Astonishingly, because of the conservative ( and corrupt) nature of the malpractice laws in my state, I cannot sue her. I have lived every day in horrific pain since that surgery, and only carry on because of my commitment to my children.

The risk of injury and pain to Jazz is very real and makes me sad she has such incompetent morons as parents.

How many times does Jazz say "my vagina" per episode?

It is up too high and in the wrong place, for starters, R102. There is no way that people would not know it is not real.

The problem with grouping transgender with LGB is that trans activism atempts to make gender dysphoria appear like an innate state just like sexual orientation. That then silences criticism and quesioning of the actual nature of gender dysphoria as a mental illness.

Trans activism cannot stand on its own and needs clng itself onto LGB to gain the same validity sexual orientation has.

Hard to believe that giving puberty blockers to teens is even legal. What kind of madness is that?

I wonder who's idea it was to put Jazz on TV. That was another stupid idea. Kind of like Teen Mom. Pushing exposure on teenagers who should be going to school and not rushing adulthood.

R103, is the pain coming from scar tissue?

It was his mom's idea r107, on one of the many deleted threads there was shared an email from that weird ftm who detransitioned but was a huge supporter for Jazz. He saved emails from Jeanette that kicked around reality show ideas about Jazz. All done for virtual asspats from strangers about what a cool mom she is.

As a lesbo, I would be remiss if I didn't weigh in...

I'm glad that guy above sounds happy, but that looks nothing like a real vagina--or maybe, a Picasso-type rendering of the vagina, all the parts are in different places and the COLORING is ridiculous (and disgusting). Also the little lips look like the wrong texture. It all looks wrong--and gross.

I don't even want to think about what it smells like.

Do you use Clorox and a toilet brush to clean it out? Maybe some Bon Ami?