Complications and More Surgeries

Girl, forget your pussy. Fix that honker up first.

I hate all of this, and the people who glorify it.

She’s not very pretty from that angle is she?

I’m very sad for Jazz.

Is this the year Jazz otherwise would have been starting college?

On the show, the surgery was described as “penile inversion vaginoplasty” and “bilateral orchiectomy” and involved skin grafts to help create a vaginal canal. One doctor said it was “the most difficult case that I have encountered,” while another surgeon — Dr. Marci Bowers — said the procedure was “an engineering feat” and “pioneering” and “complicated.”

Dr. Frankenstein? Dr. Mengele?

It was because of the hormone blocker, Jazz had a toddler sized dick. An option of using a hormone cream on it to try to create more tissue was rejected by Jazz as icky.

I hope that they are amplifying the complications cuz it is reality tv, the poor kid. All that and a camera in your face.

So many surgeries in such a short time.

And when the cameras eventually go and Jazz is no longer special, what then?

What’s wrong with these parents?

What doctor performs sex change operations on children for television?

I hope she sues her parents for child abuse in 10 years when her open wound pussy doesn't prove to be the recipe for mental health.

R8-They all make a ton of $ for appearing on TLC. Just like the 400 pound chick with her show. She doesn't have a JOB yet she has enough money to buy a house.

A doctor who is also T, R8.

I'm sorry for her, but this should be a example why any "sex change" intent should be after the person is 18 years old at least. Before that, only mental help should be provided. Mental health issues plus hormones is a recipe for disaster.

Remember when it was thought of as bad parenting when the parent allowed breast or nose jobs before 18?

These tranny loving parents are abusive. This is all unthinkable behavior.

Jazz has been such a socially isolated kid - wonder if there will ever be a real romantic relationship with another adult?

Not even a tattoo should be allowed, why chemical castration is allowed is beyond my understanding

They live in FLORIDA. I doubt he/she will find many friends there. Full of judging religious types.

Florida is the creepiest place. The kind of place you can find a surgeon to butcher your child for you.

Where is child services?????

So Jazz will never really reach adult sexual maturity, right? Like orgasms etc on an adult level?

It does appear to go against some accepted ethical standards.

[quote] Despite the minimum age of 18 as eligibility to undergo irreversible procedures, anecdotal reports show that vaginoplasties of female-affirmed patients under 18 have been performed by surgeons, thereby contravening the World Professional Association for Transgender Health Standards of Care.

He had a prolapse. That was the complication.

Talk about being judging, you all have been the worst. I admire her and her entire family for putting this out there. There are a ton of kids going thru this same thing , most alone, without the support of a loving family. Jazz is lucky to have them. I hope she's well.

I think everyone wishes Jazz well and definitely not harm, but certainly I think they should have waited until after age 18 to do this. Jazz is now barren. I hope sperm was collected so Jazz has the option of procreating.

Absolutely not, R20. I have talked to a mother of a young boy. That mother was nuts. The kid needed support not surgery.

I assume Jazx was a similar situation

Waiting til 18 wouldn’t have mattered. This kid has been fucked since his mother decided to put him on this track. Jazz was never going to turn 18 and magically somehow decide NOT to get this useless, dangerous surgery.

[quote]there was the reality of saying goodbye to the boy she gave birth to in 2000 and officially welcoming the girl

The reality is that the mother said goodbye to the perfect boy she gave birth to and welcomed the medically- mutilated/castrated boy she engineered with the connivance of media, medical and mental health professionals. They should ALL be prosecuted.

I used to live in the Tampa Bay area and I was told by a number of -- hmmm -- I don't know the PC term to call them -- transitioned individuals that Florida is a great place to transition. These folks had actually moved to FL just to transition. I'm going to guess that, because there are so many people moving in, around, and out of Florida that it's hard to keep track of who someone is and where s/he goes.

It's the same reason so many shysters, crooks, and fake doctors/lawyers move here.

[Looking at you, President Orange.]

Of course there HAS to be complications.

The real problem is this JAZZ person is an attention whore of the highest degree. If "she" decided now that she no longer has what nature intended was it, that would be the end of the attention.

Like do you hear anything about Michael Phelps, when the Summer Olympics aren't around? No, nor should you.

This individual is going to be messed up in the head, not from wanting to be female but from the young age the family has presented "her" as a whore for attention, when "she" stops getting it, the mental issues are going to rage.

You think child actors have trouble adjusting, Jazz is going to be one messed up individual unless "she" learns, Earth revolves around the Sun not "her."

But until then these "complications" will arise, so the TV cameras can provide much needed attention.

Jazz will always have mommy to love. Mommy saw to that. Just jazz and mommy forever.

Scary shit!

Having read some of the regretful testimonies from post-OP SRS patients, and how much excruciating pain and despair it brings, I really fear for this young person's future. I would expect that it's going to be impossible to maintain what, medically speaking, is an open wound, for even a few years, let alone a lifetime. Especially as this one was jimmyrigged together Dr. Frankenstein style from odds and ends, as the off-label cancer medication they used to prevent the boy's penis from growing bigger than cherub size means he didn't even have the "advantage" of a regular penis to invert.

I hope for Jazz's sake they didn't remove his prostate gland and that it developed enough so xe can one day recieve pleasure from anal sex. Apparently those "nullo" guys can still experience the sensation of orgasm even if they have their dicks and balls medically castrated so perhaps Jazz can too (although the nullos are always adult males who've completed puberty).

I find all of this appalling--Human Centipede-level stuff. FFS, human brains don't even completely finish maturing until about age 25!!!

R21 of course they didn't preserve any of his sperm--they prevented his body from ever being able to make sperm. He's apparently counting on his sister to one day make her eggs and womb available to him and his future husband to provide them with children. No idea how she feels about that but the whole family seems to subscribe to the idea that female = boobs, pink outfits, long hair, etc so of course the sister is perceived as a convenient babymaking dispenser for the benefit of her special [male] sibling. I hope she goes to college, realizes how toxic her family is, travels to a distant country and decides to never come back.

As for Jazz, I hope he's able to find some measure of peace and fulfillment, but I don't see how that's possible given the environment he was raised in and what's been denied him. Maybe, because he was never allowed to physically mature enough to know what an orgasm feels like, he won't miss it as much as the other post-op T's who realize, too late, what they've irrevocably lost. But if he does turn around and try to detransition, he'll be walking a VERY lonely road because the voices of the regretful former-T's are more shouted down, noplatformed, denied, hated and silenced than just about anyones!

What a shitshow. Those doctors should be stripped of their medical licenses, tarred and feathered.

One can only hope that the publicity over this will put an end to the US public's belief that puberty blockers are "harmless" and "reversible." No, they're not. Jazz was left sterile, with a micro-penis. Most kids in this situation will feel that there's no turning back at that point-- even if they want to.

"He's apparently counting on his sister to one day make her eggs and womb available to him and his future husband to provide them with children. No idea how she feels about that"

We have no idea how she feels about it because not one person involved in this show seems to think there's anything wrong with the appropriation of this girl's reproductive organs/labor, or any reason to analyze Jazz's sense of entitlement to these things.

I'm shocked they went through with this, given Jazz' history of depression and mood disorders.

I was also shocked how male Dr Bowers seemed when she was doing surgery, with hair covered and a surgical mask on. It made me sad for her because I don't think others really see what Dr Bowers want/expect us to see post-transition. I think the same will happen with Jazz, who already comports herself in some ways as very male. Because that is what her body is, despite the window dressing. And that's ok.

We have innate instinctual responses as to whether another human is male or female. The trans movement seems to want us to erase this, which we can't.

What happened to androgyny? This seems like a step in the opposite direction. The orwellian thinking (Trans Women ARE Women!) is scary.

[quote]I was also shocked how male Dr Bowers seemed when she was doing surgery, with hair covered and a surgical mask on.

Uh that would make sense since Dr Bowers is male.

Its cruel for adults to put a young person through all this physical torture and gobbledegook identity discourse. Whats the point of never having a sexual pleasure and orgasms? As least a chick with a dick has years of sex before deciding she may or may not want to make the chop. What meaning will Jazz have to compensate this loss? She's no brainiac, she's not beautiful or talented. It's a kind of martyrdom for the Almighty gender. Suffering forever to be a "woman" which she will never totally be.

All this just to get a cunt??? Dang, baby.

What a nightmare.

I hope I live long enough to see all these people jailed (not poor exploited Jazz obviously).

r15 circumcision, too. it's irreversible and a mutilation. It should not be allowed on minors.

I also have trouble listening to all the discussion about Jazz' new "vagina". It's not a vagina. Vaginas don't need dilation to prevent them from sealing shut (ie healing). Vaginas don't have the risk of necrosis from transplanted tissue. A surgically created hole that connects to internal organs seems like it would carry a high infection risk. Vaginas secrete mucus for protection, Jazz's front hole won't.

It seems like the grandfather and the older sister also don't really believe in it all, but they just want to support Jazz.

r37 circumcision is so minor compared to genital reconstruction. It's like have a skin tag removed or having your ears pierced. True it's done on non-consenting people, but it's so minor.

It's "mutilation" only in your tiny, bigoted mind R37

This is child abuse

Um, this makes me want to say stuff I can't say here. This is getting a bit in-your-face.

And what Jazz is going through is supposed to be the example? The standard? This is too much

R20, do you see the pain in his face?

This is surgery to not only remove his penis & testicles, but to also carve out a cosmetic “vagina.”

He will never be able to reproduce. He’s sterile.

There is no such thing as a risk free surgery — just ask Joan Rivers. Oh wait you can’t because she died during a routine procedure. Just like Kanye’s mom & countless others.

It’s impossible to change sex. This surgery is not only painful, expensive & dangerous — it’s literally fruitless. It changes nothing.

Anyone born male will die male. Males are XY. Jazz is XY. Jazz is male. He always will be. This surgery was a waste.

r39 uhm, it completely alters the look of your dick, I wouldn't call that minor at all.

r37 sorry, I don't think you know the meaning of the words you are using.

anyway, this was just as a side note. carry on with your discussion

Dr. Bowers is not male.

She's an MTF, r47.

[quote]Florida is the creepiest place. The kind of place you can find a surgeon to butcher your child for you.

His/her surgery was done in NYC.

R31. That’s a good post.

R47. Marci Bowers is genetically male.

Lol I have r47 blocked, but yes dear, he’s male. He’s openly MTF, even doing a documentary series on the Discovery Channel called Trangender MD of all things about his transition.

[quote]The humble Bowers shares with us the story she's most likely heard hundreds of times: Her gender just never felt right. During the winter of 1996 Mark made the difficult decision to tell his wife, Ann Bowers, that he needed to change, and by 1998 she was calling him Marci. The pair, however, remained friends – and married.

R48 You mean M[bold]P[/bold]F, a Male posing or presenting as female).

I am the modern day Annie Sullivan.

Marci Bowers, Miracle Worker, MD.

I can't think of many things I'd rather not watch than this.

R52. I know. I remember this persons show about the sex change clinic in Trinidad, CO about 10 years ago? I can’t remeber which channel it came on.

Didn’t Chaz Bono use this person to remove her breast with transitioning?

Homophobic parents Castrated male

There is a war on men and it is a proxy war on gay men.

seems like a war on women, esp lesbians.

the idea that gynecologists can't mention female anatomy because it might offend some is absurd and terrifying. When will it stop?

It's lesbian AIDS, R59.

Wow r60

You’re right!!!! 😳😭

I don’t understand why this surgery is so groundbreaking? He’s mutilating his genitalia so he can be a pretend woman. No periods, no pregnancies. What is the point? It’s a hatchet job to create a hatchet wound.

Has Jazz tried out the new cooter yet?

Yes, this was clearly a much more reasonable path to go down than just letting your son enjoy girly things and possibly grow up to be a gay male.

Anti-gay AND anti-God at the same time.

And he still has a wide body build that won’t look good in anything feminine.

When Jazz complained of pain after surgery, the deranged mother said "wait until you get your period." These people should be brought up on child abuse charges. Jail time. They are deranged homophobes and completely out of touch with reality.

R67 I hope she didn't really say that. Come on.

Sadly, I watched the episode. It is right there recorded and broadcast for anyone who wants to hear what gaslighting and parental abuse sounds like. Tragic story.

And this is why we don't TEENAGERS make life-altering, permanent decisions. Maybe these people forgot they are still parents of a teen, who like any other teen, is self-obsessed, narrow-minded and short-sighted, delusional and dumb.

There are good reasons to let trans MtF teens take puberty-blocking drugs (male puberty is a one-way trip that can always be undertaken later), but in Jazz's case, they started giving them to her WAY too soon. Hopefully, the medical profession learned from its mistake.

This kid has his entire family focused on him and HIS needs. I do wonder about these perpetual victim/attention whores. How do they support others? Can there ever be any sort of give and take or equality in their relationships? Is it EVER about any one else? Or is it always about THEM because they are so needy and fucked up.

JAZZ HANDS!

Why do many if these television trannys want to not have sex with men? They want to transition and be in sexual relationships with women.

When this all explodes and people wise up to the craziness, every LGB person is going to be blamed for it. Our movement has sold us out and told the world that this is the new civil rights frontier.

[quote]There are good reasons to let trans MtF teens take puberty-blocking drugs

No. There are no good reasons.

R67, that made me ugly-snort-laugh in public. Did she really say that?

My heart goes out to Jazz.

Can't he just live as a woman and not have to go through so much pain in trying to realize this dream? I think the only winners here are the surgeons.

This twitter breakdown has a lot of clips. Disturbing stuff.

Moreover, r38, there aren't too many young born-females, I'd wager, who would gleefully discuss their genitalia or operations thereon with the world.

And having those discussions with one's father and brothers present....?!

Nope. Jazz is perforce thinking like a guy.

Are the grandparents of the mother or father? Granny has had some much facial surgery, her eyes don't move in sequence.

And another thing...

If we here know about post-op problems, from continual dilation to infections to stitches failure, etc. , why wouldn't Jazz and her family? They all act (I guess that's the operative, haha, word) stunned when informed right before the surgery of potential complications.

Finally, I couldn't believe that, even though on television, the hospital authorities discharged Jazz as early as any other patient, with all the attendant risks to the patient and with the expectation that the family would become in loco hospitalis (or whatever).

R26 In New York commercials are running with Michael Phelps encouraging people to seek help for psychological problems. He's promoting a Talk-to-a-Therapist service.

Are Sander and Griffin twins? They're cute.

No, r67. She did not.

is it really called "bottom surgery"?

R78, You're a little late to the party.

R84, The boys are cute! Jazz would be a cute brother to them! Sister? The jury's still out.

The Prime Time News should say, Jazz Jennings gender confirmation surgery has encountered complications because he had a micro penis that was way to small to even attempt building a facsimile vaginal tube.

Meanwhile, they can show this video in the background.

Then they can say: Experts aren't sure Jazz will ever experience orgasm in her life, but remain hopeful. Her sister has been coerced into a future role as baby provider for Jazz's blessed union with a man. If the baby is gay, this is one family that will know what to do about that!

The parents strike me as George and Martha, without the academic and intellectual wit--Jeanette clearly rules the roost and the dad can't wait to leave NYC and get back to Florida (perhaps to his girlfriend?). I find it telling that we see very little of the sister (she made some token appearances, for which I am sure she was compensated and which she was probably bullied into). The brothers seem as smart as boxes of hair, but cute in a doofussy kind of way. Grandma (with the crazy eyes) and grandpa seem to me the most intelligent and thoughtful.

I can't help thinking of Kate McKinnon's Fitzwilliam whenever I watch Jazz.

We have all known for years putting a boy on puberty blockers at 13 results in an inability to make a fauxhole later. This family knew but pretended all would be good....it isn't. And fuck people feeling sorry and apologizing for Jazz, he has lead this from the start and now I just want to laugh in his big nosed face and shout 'WE TOLD YOU SO'.

I don’t think Jazz has lead this from the start, it’s clearly the insane mother behind all of this.

The point is he's been brainwashed into this since he was a young child, r91. He is a victim. I feel bad for him because I think there's no way he's going to have a happy adulthood now. The only benefit of this grotesque display is that it may make other parents think twice, may make GNC kids think twice, and may be the prelude to Jazz realizing what's been stolen from him and turning around with a lawsuit for damages against the doctors, the TV network, possibly even his parents.

It could potentially help other kids to avoid the same fate, and help get legislation passed to protect minors from this exploitation.

Does anyone know if Jazz's micro penis was saved. I'd like put it on a chain and wear it casually around my neck.

Yes, R87, I am, and as such am sober and aware of the drunken-like delusion of putting yourself through the trauma of surgery when all you have to do these days is just call yourself whatever you wish to be. Surgery is no longer necessary for the community to recognize and accept that desire. It allows fluidity rather than restriction and pain.

Good surgical outcomes still have problems but it sounds like Jazz is going through a lot more than realized.

I feel compassion for this kid and feel like she was sold something she's never going to achieve without a great deal of pain and suffering. I feel nothing but contempt for the surgeons who sell it.

I suppose they have to perfect it somehow, but it's too bad it's at the expense of such a young life.

Notice that, as usual, this is all about Jeanette and her feelings. She cried twice last night, I called she would cry three times, maybe next time. Dr. Ting looks like he may be transing too. At any rate, I see Marci gloved up and got in there which surprised me but I doubt she was dumb enough to really put her name on this, it's gotta be all Ting when the lawsuits come.

"Six inches forward, five inches back, I've got an angry inch!"

I know that R48, therefore she is female

So many transphobic people on here, sickening

She looks like she's orgasming out of her new front hole in OP's pic.

Bravo, R1.

What's sickening is the woman is never gonna CUM, and probably won't even be able to take a good fauxhole fucking. EVER IN HER LIFE. This store really pisses me off and makes me scared for gay or gender questioning KIDS in fucked up families.

R93 Is poor little victim Jazz so retarded he cannot use google search, as all the information we have known for years is out there for poor little victim Jazz to find.

He wanted fame, he got it. And an open wound for life

And his MUm did not say wait til you get your first period. She said wait til you get your first infection and you have smelly puss pouring out of your fauxhole and you have to live with the hole rotting and produucing pus

This kid is gonna get an infection and die. Can they close the gash up? I mean if they decide later - can they just let it close up?

One would assume they would need to first scoop out whatever fish gil and titanium mesh they put in.

If the penis was so tiny, they should have left it. Agreed to refer to it as a megaclitoris and saved the kid all this pain.

Yup r75.

T is a Trojan Horse...destroying us from the inside.

All of this is nothing compared to the thrill of pretty dresses and girly shoes.

Would this be Carrie Bradshaw's main charity work?

R98, bio sex cannot be changed. MTFs are male.

R99 - Since when is being realistic now being 'transphobic'?

[quote]This twitter breakdown has a lot of clips. Disturbing stuff.

That tweet cannot be found. Like most things that are gender-skeptical, it was probably deleted thanks to TRA tantrums.

[OP] *Singing* Don't stop! Make the pussy pop!

Be happy for her... she is who she always wanted to be!!! You go gurl!!!

Well I hope she likes anal.

Well, at least we didn't have a gay son.

R91 and r92, Nobody "has lead" anything, because it's "has led," you maroons!

What a scary reality for this poor kid. All of it.

Well, as long as Mother has what she wants... her very own Little Edie.

You guys do realize Jazz had the surgery several months ago and is now past the complications and doing fine, right?

^Which is not to say the surgery was necessarily a great idea for a teenager, and I do think the parents have exercised poor judgment in putting all this shit on TV, but the concern trolls carrying on as though Jazz's man-made vagina is a botch job that she won't be able to use for penetrative sex or having an orgasm are just making stuff up.

I feel about this Jazz kid as I do about a wounded animal. I don’t want to know when it dies.

Not possible, R21, Jazz never went through puberty, they used blockers. These kids, whether natal girls or boys are generally sterilized with no ability to harvest mature eggs or sperm. Hormones have huge impacts on brain development during adolescence, how that is being impacted is a real wildcard.

R122 - and doing fine, right?

Somehow, I doubt that.

how exactly does this get a pass from child services??? This is much more insane and vicious parenting than that kid Desmond the child tranny and Desmond’s family is being investigated.

R99 please go fuck yourself with your fake penis or vag.

[quote]Jazz's man-made vagina is a botch job that she won't be able to use for penetrative sex or having an orgasm are just making stuff up.

His penis was a botch job to begin with — it was micro.

Cutting off, however, was not only unnecessary — it’s cruel. So yeah it’s another botch surgery.

So maybe he will be able to figure out how to...enjoy his mutilation. But God bless the partner who assists him...

R15, I believe the castration is more than chemical.

Jazz must be dilating her fauxgina, full time every day. Apparently its difficult to much of anything else for several months.

Why aren't One Million Moms out protesting this show's sponsors?

It would be good if trans kids could see that surgery is not magic and that they don't need to alter their genitals in order to express themselves as the opposite sex. FtMs who remove the breasts but keep their stank pit have the right idea.

I had so much respect for Dr. Bowers at one time, now I just want to see her in prison with all of the other doctors and the parents. For Jazz to be put on blockers at such a young age is absolute malpractice, or did they go to TJ and get them that way? It is tragic what has been done to this kid, and I see it ending tragically.

Sad fact, most reputable plastic surgeons won't do nose jobs on teens/people under 17-20 because their nose is still growing, and they know a revision would be more likely necessary then not. This is likely why Jazz still has a huge schozz, because she's TOO FUCKING YOUNG to have a proper one done. But an open wound for a cunt? No problem! You should have brought Jazz in at age 8. It's never too young!

Throw the book at them. And make it a nice, big, long one. Like [italic]Gone with the Wind[/italic].

I hope her pain subsides soon, but her parents could help her most at this point by closing her social media accounts.

It is the family business to appear on reality tv, R136. The SM just drum up business for it. Jazz does not appear to be getting an education, has no romantic partner and no friends, this is it.

What happened to 80s style androgyny ? Sometimes I dress masculine and other times fem. I am chick. No need for a surgery. Instead isn’t gender fluid.?

That's the stuff that keeps your car running, R138.

Won't last past 30. I guess the rationale for such early intervention and the hormones, etc, is that to wait would allow certain "masculine" traits to emerge and make change more difficult.?

Well we could be really cruel and cynical and say a different rationale. If this boy had experiences several years of ENFORCED breathing space with no medical interventions at all, he might have decided he was a boy, and poof, good by the pioneering trans narrative for all the stakeholders implicated. He might have even been a GAY BOY. THE HORROR!!! OR a cross dressing hetero! Remember those guys?

The cold truth is that most guys who want to have a relationship with a trans woman want her to have a cock. Inconvenient truth to this madness. And yeah, a trans shouldn't decide what she wants based on what a man wants. And maybe a trans wants a woman. Or a another trans. Or a grapefruit with AI, for a lover. And times a changing. But still. Thats the general situation. I think a trans woman has to be older and sexually experienced to really weigh out the way things are going to play for her when she chops off her shenis. A teen boy could never know this.

Jazz is a TEEN BOY who had his dick and balls cut off. Think about that. Let that sink in. With plenty of adults involve for years, making it possible.

Jazz's grandfather strikes me as an old school type of doctor. How can he possibly support this atrocity being done to his grandson? Anything to get whiny Jazz's and Jeannette's approval? Seems the grandparents are going along for the ride so they don't , god forbid, come off as intolerant, etc. I agree that Jazz would have been gay ---and his homophobic parents just couldn't deal with THAT.

The doctors, all the so-called specialists in this show who encouraged Jazz through this travesty, should lose their licenses and Jazz's parents should be arrested, thrown in jail. The daughter should run for the hills and like a poster said above, never ever come back to that fucked up family. The twins are indeed dumber than dirt ---and I'm hoping they don't breed. One can hope.

The mother also pressures Jazz to find a romantic partner. Good luck with that.

R142, A man with breast implants is not a woman or any pronouns referring to one.

It is called castration, R434.

Oops, meant R433

This is a wonderful affirmation of her chosen sexuality. #bless!

You need to pick your enemies, R145. Everyone can't be. Tiresome!

[quote] Some of my friends didn't believe me that I get wet; I get soaked when I come.

What the hell is that from r150?

After learning and listening to the whole trans debate, I’ve grown to feel, like many here, that the whole thing is fraught with psychological issues, superficial ideas about sexuality, fetishism (autogynophilia), and a mix of homophobia and misogyny. On the one hand I agree that an adult has the right to make a decision about their own body; on the other, I’m adamantly opposed to allowing any teenager to take hormones. It’s a medical disaster waiting to happen.

A straight female friend of mine made the comment that “Of course it takes a man to enter the world of women and demand that they accommodate him to the point of sacrificing the actual medical definition of being a woman to accommodate his. That’s a man for you.” That’s been an eye-opener for me.

There are two things I’ve taken away from it all. It isn’t MTF. It’s MTT. No male becomes a female: a man becomes trans. A trans-woman is a trans-woman, not female. The other is that I now only refer to the Lesbian and Gay community. I’ve dropped everything else, bisexuality included. Being lesbian or gay is straightforward. Everything else is so shaded within its own definition that it makes more sense to me to no longer unite under the alphabet soup umbrella. If a person is queer or trans or non-binary, knock yourselves out. They have the right to be safe and free from discrimination. But I shouldn’t be forced to participate in their fantasies beyond that.

I feel desperately sorry for the young people who go through with it.

It's from the link at R131.

From the article at R131. I'm still wondering why those ideas are linked. Like 'getting wet' is an arousal thing, no?

[quote]Some of my friends didn't believe me that I get wet; I get soaked when I come.

How does that occur? His ditch isn’t attached to any glands that would produce precome or whatever— unless he had the colon type surgery and in that case it’s anal mucus.

Depending on the type of stimulation, some women squirt when they come. Maybe it is a big thing in porn so it is something the person in the article fetishized? Not getting where an inverted penis or piece of intestine would spontaneously lubricate upon arousal though, anyone?

Just did a quick search, seems to be something that comes up in porn a lot.

This whole phenomenon is driven by porn, SM and autism it seems. So sad.

Back in the day there was the occasional person, but this is clearly social engineering coming for women, gays and kids.

I don't watch the show. It's disturbing to think she had the surgery at such a young age. It's a lot to go through. It seems she identified as female from a very young age, though. The surgery sounds like a real ordeal. I hope she heals OK.

I read the Cosmo article, and I can't stop barfing. 1/3 lies, 1/3 bullshit and 1/3 delusion. All of it poorly written.

I agree, R159.

[quote]the concern trolls carrying on as though Jazz's man-made vagina is a botch job that she won't be able to use for penetrative sex or having an orgasm are just making stuff up.

How is Jazz supposed to have an orgasm, even once in his life? Through the power of imagination?

A surgical wound cannot produce lubricating fluids - it is scar tissue. A man does not have a cervix, therefore he will never produce lubricating cervical discharge. In females, the Bartholin's glands, located at the opening of the vagina, provide additional lubrication on sexual arousal. Alas, without those glands, there will be no lubrication. The man who reported becoming "wet" with his scar tissue is lying - no cervix, no Bartholin's glands = no fluids/lubrication.

It takes a massive amount of money and homophobia to put your gay son through this horrendous and pointless butchery.

This is worse than religious ex-gay therapy. At least there, all you're doing is wasting your time with prayers that won't be answered.

The pic at r158 is heartbreaking. He was such an adorable gayby.

[quote]It seems she identified as female from a very young age, though.

You can’t “identify” into male or female. Sex categories aren’t identities, they’re just objective designations based on biology.

What you had was a little boy who enjoyed feminine toys, items of clothing, etc— most likely based on how he perceived the treatment and behavior of his sister, the one girl in the family, over his two brothers. A three year old has no concept of sex; he’s reacting to dynamics at work between his family members.

If sister gets special, gentler treatment, if sister doesn’t have to perform the same chores as the boys, or is perhaps “nicer” to Jazz (doesn’t play rough like brothers may) then you can see why, in a young child’s mind, being a girl is preferred to being a boy.

R152 very well said. I'm old and for many years didn't "get" trans. Then later I was all for people "actualizing" themselves and their selves. Now, I think that there is often major dysmorphia and neurosis involved. Certainly for children it's a mine field. From the little I know of Native American berdache tradition, that seems a healthy approach for the individual and the society.

Before anyone gets too gushy about Native Americans and their "traditions" that white people fetishize, most of the people you'll find on the Rez are homophobic as hell.

When the man said he got wet he meant the pus from his open wound getting infected

I kind of want to look up the surgery where they use the colon, but I kind of don't. Ew.....

R168, correctly or not, I was thinking of pre-colonial, pre-"Rez", pre-white-people-fetish times. Now it's all fucked up.

Understood r171. It really is so fucked up now. Very sad.

[quote] most of the people you'll find on the Rez are homophobic as hell.

That is the result of embracing the white man's religion. Pre-white man they were not homophobic at all.

This will not end well.

I think Jazz is going to snap one day, in the not too distant future, and it's going to be a family annihilation situation.

R170 Then I do not recommend looking at the photos of what trans identifying women who 'want' to be men do their bodies, little coverage of this, but the idea of removing all the skin from the forearm and wrap it around thigh bone to make some kind of faux penis really is the height of self delusion and medical malpractice

Link please r176 (wincing, knowing I will regret it)

[quote]How is Jazz supposed to have an orgasm, even once in his life?

The surgeons used the head of Jazz's penis to make a clitoris that will, at least in theory, experience the same sensations as an actual clit. They also encouraged her to masturbate pre-surgery to practice having orgasms. I would have thought the hormone blockers had made this impossible but apparently not. I suppose, now that I am thinking about this bizarre topic, that since she takes female hormones and experienced a feminizing puberty—and the penis head is made of basically the same material as a clitoris—that she could have some sort of dry orgasm, much as she'll be able to with her new vag.

[quote][R122] - and doing fine, right? Somehow, I doubt that.

Overall, who knows? But in terms of the vag, apparently it has healed and is functioning as expected.

Why weren't the parents arrested for child abuse?

R179 How the fuck do they know it is "functioning as expected" Did they hire some guy to fuck her while the sick mother watched and the cameras recorded it ? Did she have her "period"? What the hell?

[quote][R179] How the fuck do they know it is "functioning as expected" Did they hire some guy to fuck her while the sick mother watched and the cameras recorded it ?

LOL, I don't think so, but apparently she DOES have a bf now and I'm sure the world will hear all about it the first time they fuck. As for "functioning as expected," I think that just means it hasn't closed up or shrunk or done anything that would indicate the surgery's going to fail.

[quote]Did she have her "period"?

Well, now, that wouldn't be expected, would it?

Her parents are wisely saving "fucking the boyfriend" episode for sweeps week.

R182 someone upthread said the sick mother said something to that effect to Jazz re: periods. I may have misread. Thanks for answering my question though re: "functioning"

I hope she's on birth control!

R178 Jazz has talked extensively about how his body revolts him and how he hates looking at it, let alone masturbate. Another obvious symptom of having body hate issues. Good forbid the poor little cuntless wonder got actual help with his body issues that did not involve untested drugs and surgery

The mother groomed him to be a trans.

It puts the lotion on.

[quote]No male becomes a female: a man becomes trans.

No man becomes "trans". He becomes a medically-mutilated MAN. "Trans" is a benign term for medical malpractice, pandering to fantasy and mental illness and child abuse.

So are you all saying that because of the puberty blockers Jazz had a puny cocklet????

If the "Equality Act" that the Democrats are pushing passes, transgender conversion therapy will be banned the result being that parents won't be able to stop their "gender non-conforming" (gay) kids from being transitioned.

Now that 2% of US kids "identify" as transgender, that's going to be a lot of pissed-off parents fighting to save their kids from Jazz's fate.

The backlash against the LGBTQ + whatever, will be massive.

The "Equality Act" will also change the definition of sex to the following, this allowing men who self-id as women into any women's traditionally protected space, including hospital rooms, nursing home rooms and longterm disabled facilities, like the one where the Arizona woman was raped.

"(4) SEX . The term ‘sex’ includes— (A) a sex stereotype; (B) pregnancy, childbirth, or a related medical condition; and (C) sexual orientation or gender identity."

[quote]Back in the day there was the occasional person

This is what I don’t understand. I knew a few trans people back in the day. They were cool, it wasn’t a big deal. There were very few of them, though. Now all of a sudden everybody and their dog is trans. Where did they all come from?

R191 And they never believed they were 'actual' women. And butch dykes just cross dressed and did not have double mastectomies and hysterectomies

[quote]Where did they all come from?

Medicine overtaking reason and sanity.

Jazz’s mom is psychotic and his dad must be a doormat.

The article saids Jazz was eighteen at the time of the surgery, but still...

The parents have been conditioning Jazz for this surgery for years

R7 if rubbing his genitals with cream Ickes him out, I wonder what he thinks about dialating his open wound very month so it won’t heal shut. This kid is delusional.

R196 Every month? He will have to dilate everyday, twice a day, especially as this was made from his colon. He will have to dilate everyday for the rest of his life or his poocunt will close

I'm not seeing where the colon was involved. Says here part of the stomach? Jesus this is so fucking Frankenstein. Of course this was featured in a women's health magazine. Of course.

'When I was 2 years old, I went up to my Mom and asked her, 'When is the good fairy going to come with her magic wand and change my penis into a vagina?' she said. (From the link at R198)

This never happened. Two year olds are not capable of such complex language or ideas.

Agree completely r199 That is ALL her attention whore cunt of a mother.

I'm guessing that most posters here are guys. Any women want to weigh in? Also, how would guys and gals feel about a little girl going in the reverse direction?

R155 women’s vaginas are naturally wet. They have ducts in their labias that release vaginal secretions, it’s called vaginal mucus. Depending on the time of their cycle, the amount of mucus changes. And when a woman is arounsed she produces more vaginal secretions as a natural lube for intercourse. The guy in that video is either straight up lying or something else that has to do with his colon BUT his fauxgina is not getting wet

R201 I'm a woman, I posted at R199. I'm very dubious about the whole thing and believe that Jazz was probably brainwashed. I'm a mother myself, one of my boys was very feminine in his ways, liked pink and glitter and copying the models on ANTM, etc, thank goodness there was no one around to tell him he was really a girl or had been born in the wrong body or any of that shit. Generally speaking I believe in avoiding medical and surgical interventions unless they're really necessary, just let children grow up in their own way. The worst thing is that Jazz is seen as a role model by some children and no one seems to apply any critical thought to the things they come out with. No offence to Jazz though, I hope they have a happy life.

R201 sorry, just noticed your point about girls transitioning to transboys. I feel sad for them, sad that they feel the need to risk injury by wearing breastbinders, have their healthy breasts removed (increasingly younger it would seem) and risk a premature death by using longterm testosterone therapy. Girls often do find puberty and the physical changes very hard to cope with and it can take a few years to come to terms with the whole thing and I think some people are exploiting that for their own agenda.

I'm a woman. My youngest son was like Jazz, all Disney Princess dress up and Barbies until he was about 8 or 9. He's a young teen now, very artistic, creative and heavily into fashion, most of his friends are girls. He came out as bisexual recently (I think he's probably gay but he'll figure that out in his own time).

The whole situation around Jazz disturbs me to the very core of my soul.

I'm speaking from the UK, I think some parents are starting to get scared for their children now. The whole agenda seems to be getting out of hand.

Wasn't there just recently some new regulation in the UK about banning trans-conversion therapy? Somewhere there's a bad joke about MTF and Brexit.

I hope Jazz gets the life she wants and deserves. Being true to yourself from such a young age and having such a supportive family is a gift.

I agree 208.

I'm an old Frau and a hard-core Democrat, but I deplore (yes) the Party's insane position on "Gender Equality."

Nothing involving human behavior is 100% one way or another, so there are likely true cases of males who feel female to their synapses. But that simply makes them extremely mentally disturbed.

That there now exist politicians, psychologists, parents, portions of the public, and physicians willing to aid and abet such thinking, from legally sanctioning male access to heretofore designated-female areas such as changing rooms, bathrooms, and nursing home rooms, unto surgical mutilation in the NAME of "Equality" is itself a perversion of TRUE equality.

For TRUE equality would allow for FACTS; for biology and not merely altered outer appearances (whether from surgery or simply attire and make-up); for the civil and privacy rights of females of any age, from the young girl in a school lav to the old woman in a nursing home double room; for opportunities available for success in areas such as athletics, where males allowed to compete as females are now defeating actual females; etc.

That our language is being changed to accommodate this craziness is another intended (yes) consequence to be rued. "CIS"? GTHO. I said it before and I say it again: The word that began our descent into linguistic gender-lunacy is "surrogate." Certain women who became pregnant and gave birth were no longer termed "mothers"; the "mother" was the woman who had paid the former to give up her child. The BUYER was deemed to be the "expectant" one.

So now a brainwashed] boy gains TV money and fame by being medicated and mutilated, because every adult in his life has entered his world of delusion.

OUR world of delusion.

"Jazz" will not "get the life he wants", since he has no mature idea of what that life should be. He will be a suicide before he is 30.

What do you think of this, r206? I say it's tactful and long overdue.

[quote]Some of my friends didn't believe me that I get wet; I get soaked when I come.

[quote]How does that occur?

Urine?

Jazz’s mom looks like a tranny.

R212 a sensible statement

R198, the surgery was accomplished using "peritoneum", the thin, tough lining of the abdominal cavity. Not sure why that was elected, as it's one tissue layer, as opposed to multiple layers (including smooth muscle) that may be found in the intestinal tract.

How pleasurable could a tissue sleeve be to fuck? How durable is it really?

I thought I saw that it was a more experimental technique?

Bet any purported boyfriend is hired.

Since Jazz doesn’t like touching his genitals, will mommy perform the dilation? 🤮

this is lurid

Supposedly one reason doctors have given for castrating high school students is that the dialation schedule can be supervised by the mother while kid is still at home, always wondered wtf that meant.

Jazz was strongly encouraged to become orgasmic prior to the surgery and refused if I recall correctly.

R217, not necessarily. I'm sure there are lots of guys who see $$$ as being part of the show. And some who want bragging rights. And possibly some who might genuinely care about Jazz.

No 18 year old guy would enter that circus unless cash. So Jazz identifies as a hetero woman?

I would think those same factors were in play the past few years though, no, R221? Guess time will tell. There had to be a significant other to move the plot along and to make all this seem worth is, funny how dateless and friendless Jazz had someone pop up just at this plot point.

The fauxgina does not seem very durable? I cannot imagine fear of causing some damage would not be a bit of a boner killer. If it has no muscle tissue, it is like fucking a balloon anchored at 2 ends? Anal seems like it would be more pleasurable.

Agreed r178. They’re the only ones benefiting from this. A new medical industry. It also involves big pharma, who no doubt makes a killing selling sex hormones.

^^^literally perhaps^^^

'Dilation schedule' has got to be one of the most horrifying locutions yet devised.

The mom seems over-invested to a toxic degree. It will all end in tears. I wish parents could take a hands-off approach to their kids' identities and sexuality-- just let them be who they are in the bodies they have, which are perfect as is.

20 years ago I noticed my siblings offering their kids so many choices. What do you want for dinner? Chicken? Pizza? Do you want salad? Would you rather carrots?

I'm rather shocked by the comments on this thread. All the misgendering and assumptions - same thing gay men suffered not too long ago. How quickly we forget that we were considered mentally ill, or called a woman etc etc. Sad so many on this thread are eager to punch down and do that to another group.

Please stop saying "punch down" r228, and this has nothing to do with you if you aren't a woman, no offense. It's not gay men who are being usurped...oh wait, yes it is! You guys are being pushed out of your own organizations and young gnc boys are being transed.

It would be laughable if not so sad the amount of gays here who hate. Some are making fun of her...as if she WANTS to have the surgery for attention. Same question to you idiots who had to give this answer to straights----why would I WANT to go through this given all of hate we all encounter? I was born this way.

Jesus.

The twins in the boxing ring was worth watching this car crash.

I'm a woman. I call bullshit on that 'wet' stuff. Stomach lining cannot secrete vaginal juices! WTF?

I remember losing my virginity to a man being a very painful experience and I cannot imagine repeating that every day for the rest of my life. At least it was somewhat pleasurable. Dilation, on the other hand, is so much more painful and you can't even get aroused! Who would want this???

By the way, when aroused, vaginas expand to accommodate a penis. How long is that piece of intestine they used? Is the boyfriend's penis 3 inched long?

R229 No.

Who sucks the dad's dick?

Stop equating it with gayness r230, it's not the fucking same thing at all. Gay people don't cut off healthy organs or need chemicals to assert their "gayness" this is a fucking mental illness the same as anorexia is and should not be encouraged. Since when did we treat dysmorphia by mutilating the body. You can't fix psychological problems externally, it's an inside job. Also, as a gay you should worry that a new generation of gay kids are being sterilized at the very least.

R235, the social stigma is the same. Homosexuality was considered a mental illness too.

It is far more profound than dysmorphia. It is both chemical AND psychological. Basically, EVERYTHING is chemical. This is what is felt by people- why all of the hate? Why is everyone here so pissed? I get this one in particular by way of HER age, but hell..being a transsexual is obviously painful. People on here are so hateful as if they are somehow being affected. So, yeah...BIG PARALLEL with the whole gay thing too. The stigma and the lack of understanding. Especially HERE.

R236 No you fucking moron you cannot equate the two, I do not have to take off label untested drugs, have body parts chopped off and shit on woman to 'maintain' or 'embrace my true ' gayness. You and we know it.

Now go fuck a tranny

Who says it is chemical r236? What do you even mean by that? If you mean it's chemical because these trans boys aren't making estrogen, then yeah, I guess it is. But I've not heard that there is any chemical lacking in them. Is anorexia also chemical? How about BIID? Do we treat anorexics by changing their body to match their brain? Yes, you are fat, Karen, you should lose another ten pounds. You say your arm feels "alien" well, let's fucking chop it off then! No, we don't do that because it's fucking dangerous and because, wait for it, it doesn't work! There's a reason Johns Hopkins doesn't do SRS surgeries anymore ( I fucking refuse to call them gender confirmation surgeries) and the reason is that these trans are just as likely to commit suicide with them as without them. No, I don't have to play along and I do not have to be called "cis" like I am the minority, you don't get to change the fucking language to suit you.

R237, you are an angry psychotic. Jesus wtf happened to you as a kid?

R239 That is your comeback you pathetic pile of shit? Dumb Frau, this is why your children hate your fucking guts

R239, did your frau mommy touch you?

I'm a dinner jac(ket). I've identified as one since 3. I shall be confirming that soon.

Coincidentally, Iran LURVS trans and coincidentally, there are NO HOMOS in Iran.

R238 yes we are all chemical. But with this issue, its both. And, if they don't get "chopped up", they will feel as if they are an alien in a host body. I dont understand why everyone is so pissed off. If an adult wants to do this, why is everyone so mad? Have some empathy. .

Are you new to the debate R243?

Oh sweetie, R243, DL has a contingent of people who post everyday 365 a year, on the topic of the apocalyptic trans agenda. There is no discussion with them. Most gay people IRL operate in subtle middle grounds and rationales about trans and the so-called trans agenda. Social Media like this DL forum is just a mine field of binary-based outrage and anger.

R245 I think you have a good point.

r245 HA, we have been questioning the trans bullshit narrative for years, cause it is all such an obvious pile of shit. And as suicide rates go up after transition, lobbing off childrens body parts accomplishes nothing

r243 Jazz isn't an adult, or wasn't when all this shit was foisted on him. These boys that are competing with high school girls aren't adults. These kids who are being taken from their parents cause their parents won't give them cross hormones, aren't adults. And you saying that it's both doesn't fucking prove anything. Again, if you feel all wrong in your body, then you need to change your feelings, not your body. And again, this is not a viable cure since many trans are just as desperate post surgery. If you guys wouldn't shout down the desistors, you would know this. And r245, yes we have been questioning this for years but assholes like Huff po and buzzfeed toe the line and censor any resistance to it.

R248, yes I excluded Jazz as a subject of debate, despite the thread. I was referring to the adult transsexuals.

Honey Boo Boo needs to be at Jazz's side, holding his/her hand.

ignore 235, sick bastard that hates transgendered people

R251 everything HE said is true, now fuck off frau who does not even know how to r a reply

Damn, R251 YOU are ONE MISERABLE BASTARD! Wow. When is the suicide?

You're all mocking Jazz and hating on her and I'm the sick one? Fuck yourselves

I don't care if they want to take hormones and surgical sterilization, as long they are adults. I'm against blockers on teens, and Jazz complications are a prove why they are a bad idea.

Also, I think any mental health issue should be discarded before a surgery. A cousin of mine was considering surgery, but was pretty obvious without going to deep, he felt he was discriminated for being too femenine, by my family and by other gay guys, he thought "maybe if I go all the way" and become a woman he would be more accepted. That's not real gender disphoria. How a kid can possible know the difference?

I’m starting to wonder if this surgery really happened. It is a reality show, maybe they faked it for tv and the doctors went along with it to push their tran$ agenda.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about mtf surgery. They don’t chop off dicks or balls, the surgeon fashions them into a faux vulva and vagina. That’s why it’s called penile inversion surgery.

Tranny fuckers are still fucking male genitalia. The clitoris is basically the penis head and it looks nothing like a female clitoris when aroused.

Faux vaginas cannot self lubricate, it’s penile tissue inverted, which is not mucosal, the intestinal lining used by some surgeons is part of the colon and secretes a putrid smell. Trannys need to dialate to keep the wound open and need to prepare to have penetrative sex by dialating and lubing up the front hole.

Men dressed as women are just that and nothing more.

[quote] Faux vaginas cannot self lubricate, it’s penile tissue inverted, which is not mucosal, the intestinal lining used by some surgeons is part of the colon and secretes a putrid smell. Trannys need to dialate to keep the wound open and need to prepare to have penetrative sex by dialating and lubing up the front hole.

I think I'll skip dinner this evening, and possibly every meal for the next week.

Gosh, this is a bit much to take. And I mean just all of it. I hope Jazz makes it - but - the odds are not good.

Young female detransitioners have formed a new group and are speaking out:

Jazz is just fine but lots of the people on here need serious help

r261 = Jazz's famewhore cunt mother who should be locked up in Guantanamo.

R261 Actually, research shows he will suicide out, sooner rather than later.

R257 Thank you for that post. This May 2019 I'm having my confirmation surgery. I have identified for 2 decades as a lizard-man but was born with only 1, averaged sized human male penis. My mind literacy aches for my Hemipenis. My human penis is going to be refashioned, after they harvest half it's nerves, to join my left arm, which will also be fashioned into the 2nd part of my hemipenis. In my identity I have an enormous hemipenis. Fortunately I am fluid for sexual partners, which will maximize the possibilities of partners to ride my human penis sized hemi, as well as my human arm-sized hemi. My brilliant doctors assure me that I'll be able to shoot sperme out all the tentacles (fashioned from my human fingers) on my hemipenis.

From R210 "The word that began our descent into linguistic gender-lunacy is "surrogate." Certain women who became pregnant and gave birth were no longer termed "mothers"; the "mother" was the woman who had paid the former to give up her child. The BUYER was deemed to be the "expectant" one."

A surrogate is a woman who carries an implanted embryo that is not biologically her own. She has agreed to do this for altruism, for money, and because it is her body and therefore her choice. This is categorically distinct from "mother" -- a term that describes a woman who gives birth to her own biological child with the intent to raise it. If she gives it up for adoption, she is the birth mother, but not the child's mother.

R245, Out gay men don't agitate for rules and laws allowing them unquestioned access to women-only places, including school lavatories.

R264 Glad I could help. But won’t you reconsider keeping your scaley skin?

So the fauxgina smells like shit? And it is likely to have hairballs and become infected? Do people really understand what they are signing up for? A kid cannot grasp the magnitude of being sterilized, the social and sexual and employment implications - even as an adult, all of this is astonishing.

I believe the majority of trans people are trans because they are ashamed to just say they are gay. With that said, I watched season 5 and Jazz is pretty damn likable and seems to be a good person. I’m afraid the parents got addicted to the spotlight with that Barbara Walters interview and that set Jazz’s future then and there. It will be interesting to see how Jazz feels about the new Frankenminge. The troubles have just begun unfortunately.

Yeah, pretty soon she's going to realize that only fetishists want to fuck her.

If them.

Jazz has not had much of a childhood or adolescence outside of being lauded as an activists by adults. No romances, chose to switch to homeschooling, no friend group. Sad.

Title of the upcoming show about FTM: "I Am Jizz"

r269 Really? You think Jazz is likable? I think he's a spoiled brat. He makes everything about him and brings up his genitals at every family dinner while burping and laughing all the while. In short, a teen boy and they are rarely likable. I hate that he has no interests outside of having a pussy, no hopes or interests but food and pussy, again, a teen boy.

So he's getting himself some pussy.

Fetishists aren't going to want to fuck Jazz, because most fetishists want their chick with a dick. Only reality famewhores are going to "want" to fuck Jazz to get some airtime.

Yep, R275, no one wants to fuck trannys, it is just the reality. All the pain, $ and dilation and it is likely to go unused. Few adhere to the dilation schedule over time anyway.

The dilation issue confuses me. So dilating the new vagina with some sort of dildo device is required several times a day to keep it open?

Why not wear an inverted strap-on all day until it heals? Maybe take it out and wipe it off to pee and re-insert after. Kind of like piercings. you have to keep the bolt or whatever in or the hole will close.

It’d be almost impossible to sit with a rigid length of plastic sticking into your intestines r277.

Perhaps it could be soft, squishy, and supple, not rigid, R278. It doesn't need to be hard, just big enough to place hold the gap.

[quote] Why not wear an inverted strap-on all day until it heals? Maybe take it out and wipe it off to pee and re-insert after. Kind of like piercings. you have to keep the bolt or whatever in or the hole will close.

I just barfed a little.

A piercing is exposed to the air: there is circulation.

Can you imagine the bacteria growth on a dildo--4 or 5 inches--that is plugging up a dark, warm, moist (with SWEAT, rubbing against a silicone dildo) part of the body.

Yuck.

It doesn't ever heal.

Nor does it grow back.

Plus--I don't know how much you guys want to hear about lady anatomy--but...

the vagina is extremely muscular. If, for some reason, I decided to wear a dildo all day while going to work or something, I could use my vag muscles to hang onto it when walking.

In the middle of a long stride, anyone without muscularity in that region is going to have a dildo falling out of them (or only kept sort of in place by underwear.)

Sorry. I know it's gross.

^^^^♡♡♡♡♡^^^^^

There is no way this teenager will keep up with the required dilation and maintenance to keep the hole open. Jazz will get bored with it for sure. Jazz already seemed kind of disgusted with the idea of masturbation and self-touching before this so how the hell is this going to work?

I am so fucking sick of the fraus, juniorfraus and trannies infesting our site. If you're not gay, you need to fucking leave.

Why don't you just toddle off, junior?

Dialation is not like sexy times, I was told that often it is painful. People begin to resent the time required. Once depth is lost it is unlikely that it can be re-gained.

And some people view circumcision as a gruesome and unnecessary procedure.

Yeah many do r289 but luckily it is done when they are infants and they don't remember it or ever have to maintain it. The dilation is painful and bloody and the aftercare things I have read about it say it's intense and time consuming.

The real nitty gritty about dilation. Written in 2012, before the world went fully trans crazy.

From the above:

The neovagina is an artificially created opening into the body. Because your genetic code has no plan for an opening there, your body will simply heal what it considers to be a gaping wound and close the neovagina completely and permanently. The tissue surrounding the neovagina, including the PC muscle, were pushed aside during the dissection of neovaginal cavity. These tissues will attempt to move back into their original positions. So in order to keep it open, we must insert something into the neovagina on a regular and frequent basis. Such a device is called a stent or dilator.

About R291's post--

this made me sad--

[quote] Why do you have to dilate? Several things are happening. The surrounding tissues, including the PC muscle, are trying to move back to their original positions, forcing the neovagina closed. The scar tissue that is forming is contracting, again closing the neovagina. As if this wasn’t enough, when the neovagina relaxes and contracts between dilations, it develops wrinkles. These wrinkles will actually start healing together, narrowing the diameter of the neovagina. This will continue until the tissue has enough time to heal, so adequate dilation must be maintained during the healing process.

Your poor body is trying to heal itself in myriad pathetic ways...

then this

[quote] Obviously, you have to dilate frequently, for at least 30 to 45 minutes at least six times per day at first.

THREE HOURS A DAY with a dildo in your vag..?

[quote] The nose (of the dilator) must be blunt enough to minimize the danger of penetrating the vaginal wall.

Fantastic.

Yep, it really is a fascinating read. No BS in it at all. And they also remind you, that SRS patients will have to do this (though at lesser intervals) FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. The body wants to do everything it can to close up the wound for as long as the person lives.

Now compare this information with that complete stack of lies and fairytales that was in the Cosmo article upthread. Yeah...it's just a fucking picnic. NBD!

I don't understand where the wound is not healing. It never completely closes at all? Where is is staying open? Deep inside? That doesn't seem healthy for having sex.

Concur, R152. I do include the B, though. There is a very funny bit by gay comedian Tim Dillon on CC’s Sirius channel right now talking about the “outrage” he faced when not referencing the full alphabet soup of letters.

The T should not be included with us, nor should the A. The Q, I have no idea what that really is - someone once explained as the goth and emo kids who kissed someone of the same gender once. I feel badly for the I, and I think they just want to be left alone.

BTW, Tinder has around 30 options for “gender” some of them are really funny.

R295 You really do have to read the article linked above. It isn't that long but it describes all of the different ways the body wants to heal the wound. Very informative.

This whole issue of gender is so complex. Then there's orientation. I don't know if looking at how other animals behave can be of use. So, there are many examples of same-sex activity in nature, as discussed in a book called "Biological Exuberance." That gives the lie to the claim some make that homosexuality is unnatural and specific only to humans.

But the torturing of the body that can be part of trans is unique to humans. It seems, like others have said, a superficial way of addressing the real issue of self image. The fact that some trans people choose not to have the surgery shows that there are different ways to solve questions of self image. This dilation business is horrendous.

R268 someone on another message board is close friends with a MTF and they said he said his friend’s opening smells like poop.

R293 that made me sad too.

I am woman, hear me roar...

R298, thank you for that very good, logical response.

r299, I seriously doubt that it would smell like "poop", any more than sausage smells like poop (sausage casing is made from intestinal lining too).

It's also not quite accurate to describe a fauxgina as a permanently open wound, any more than your belly button is. It might very well stink due to fungi or bacteria in a dark, moist cavity, but that's independent of the tissue where it came from.

Personally, if Jazz was uncut before surgery, I'd expect her vag to smell like a rancid uncut cock, because the cells that produce smeg are now inside her neo-vag.

R299

Jazz’s family is Jewish. I’m sure he was cut.

The intestinal neovag may not smell like shit but it reportedly does have more of a foul odor than the skin neovag. Although the skin version is teeming with bacteria and fungus since, as you noted, it’s basically an extremely deep bellybutton.

'Neovagina' is a completely ridiculous term, a sop to patients deluded by their own psychological infirmities and by the nefarious false promises of greedy unscrupulous surgeons. It's a pocket. A pocket that bears no resemblance in terms of its appearance or functionality to an actual vagina, which is a natural marvel and not a mere fuckhole coveted by porn-addled men who get off at the idea of being women because they see women as submissive skanks.

I remember years ago on the Howard Stern show, there was a tranny who said his neovagina didn't small bad per se, but more like "a fine stilton." I remember looking up what the hell "stilton" was and the name stuck with me. Years later, in the Netherlands, someone opened a jar of cheese to spread on crackers. I caught a whiff, looked down, and saw what looked like an extra-veiny blue cheese.

I asked, "What is THAT?" The reply was "it's stilton." 🤮

You ATE someone's vagina?!

This article rocks, for so many reasons. Guarantee that the T will/would take issue with it

[quote] You ATE someone's vagina?!

I saw it, and politely declined the offer.

But, these trannies have some nerve to call real women "fish" when they have the Gowanus Canal between their legs.

Lesbian here. Years ago I fell into a group of friends at college. Our group was quite diverse. One friend was a MTF who was much older than the rest of us and had a very successful career but quit it in order to have the surgery by a famed doctor. This friend basically was recuperating and attending this college near her parents to pass the time I guess, I’m not really sure. She had also had thousands of dollars worth of plastic surgery, gastric sleeve surgery, skin removal, butt lift, you name it. Anyways, I had ended up “fooling” around a bit prior to my knowledge that they were MTF. I always knew something was majorly off. They did not smell right at all. This one and only time fooling around was me “fingering” the “pussy” and it was right then I knew something was massively wrong. There was hair growing on the inside of the orifice, which is not at all what a woman’s is like. There was also a musky smell overall. Nothing felt tight and I don’t think she felt any pleasure. Anyways to make a long story short, they revealed their transgenderism to me and I tried to be very open minded..up until “she” began harassing me for wasting my “natural womanhood” by being an androgynous young butch. She ended up turning psychotic and I got the hell away out of that friendship. I’ll never ever forget the awful smell. I grew up around sweaty blue collar guys and it does not phase me in the least, but the smell on this person wasn’t the same at all and in fact her dorm room smelled like infection mixed with a musky smell. She bitched and complained about the daily dilation thing and was contemplating stopping it and just letting the thing close up. I wish I had never gotten involved and gotten to know this person and it’s a great embarsssment to me. I actually just told this story to my long time partner the other day, as she finally asked for more details and it felt like a weight off me but I also felt shame.

Cool story bro/R310.

R311, yes it is true and I lived it. Are you over here from 4chan or Reddit to brigade because you don’t like or believe that some people don’t care for trannys much?

This wound needs to be dialated 6 times a day for 20 minutes for the first month at least, then to some lesser extent for the rest of Jazz' life. Does anyone actually believe he's going to do this?

I have a similar opinion. I think kids like Jazz who had stereotypical feminine interests at one point start seeing themselves through girls because of the interests they share. They make the wrong assumption that they are girls because of how much they think they have in common with girls. As soon as they realise their bodies differ from those of girls then there is when gender dysphoria kicks in. R166

In this video you can see it is the same story: stereotypical masculinie insterests/behaviour --> I relate more to boys --> I'm a boy.

And yet, lesbians are bullied for not wanting to go down on a shenis or a rancid wound. How dare we not to desire that! Transphobic! It's enough that we have to share bathrooms and changing rooms with men in dresses pretending to be women, now we have to fuck that too. I'm all for LGB leaving the rest of the alphabet soup behind.

R310, thx for the story. I hope you can let go of the shame, since you did nothing to be ashamed of.

r303 u r mental

Will the manufacturers of the Jazz doll update their product to reflect the change?

So who does Jazz want to date? Straight men/boys??

Jazz likes girls, supposedly.

The only people who will fuck a tranny are straight guys who are sex addicts. They will fuck a tranny as fetish-sport on the down low. They are construction worker types.

Jazz will have no love life.

I get the impression R319 that Jazz doesn't know what their sexuality is. The puberty blockers made them physically stuck as a pre pubescent child and there is some evidence to suggest blockers also affect brain maturity which is a major part of going through puberty.

A person can only really discover their sexuality through sexually maturing and experimentation. Both of those things have been denied to Jazz. I think Jazz will date whoever their mother deems suitable and expect that will probably be a 'straight' man. I'd be surprised if the family have pushed through this whole process only for Jazz to be a lesbian (not that I think males can be lesbians but you get the drift). I'm sure Mother has got her eye on a future wedding series and magazine deals.

Now imagine all the fame chasers wanting their fifteen minutes. And the fetishists wanting to 'get in first'... Has Jazz any real friends outside of the circus? Away from the trans/entertainment agendas. It'd be nice if Jazz could meet someone who's a friend of a friend's brother or something. Someone genuine and with a background kind of 'known' to Jazz's circle. Kid is incredibly naive and sheltered, has issues with depression and poor self-image, and thanks to surgery, physically a bit 'delicate'*, so extremely vulnerable

*Real vaginas can 'take a pounding', -so to speak -but they're built for childbirth and sexual intercourse. The single layer tissue that's been put into Jazz hasn't the same muscular resilience. Anyone penetrating that pseudo-vag cavity... needs to be extremely careful to not tear up the tissue.

You can order the "Jazz Doll Fauxgina Mini Dilation Set", in Fiesta Colors, 8.99.

"Disclaimer: Not for human use. Chocking hazard. Not Edible"

choking.

Paging Lorena Bobbitt...

R310, I knew a stealth MTF years ago. I was the only one who knew he was born male.

He loved dick...so he was a homo like us.

When I told him I was lesbian and not bi, he was disappointed. He told me to at least be a “lipstick lesbian” and not a “bull dyke.”

Everybody else embraced & accepted me when I came out...even my republican dad.

Ts are homophobic & misogynist. But we are the only ones who know that. Nobody is listening to us. Nobody cares.

Agreed, R326. It’s so transparent.

MRA in a dress

Mainstream thinks they're poor sad gay boys because the mainstream might be superficially gay-friendly but underneath the "Vote Yes" badge, they still think gay men aren't real men, just like they think some lesbians have male brains and some "just need to work through their fear of men". And now the TRAs are reassuring them they were right all along.

Jazz should start dating Desmond because he's amazing

If Desmond is amazing, he deserves insanity-free love

Sadly Jazz will never experience normal life. Casual dating? Forget it, everybody in the bar knows the story. Children? Nope, sterilized. Orgasm? Unlikely.

Poor little fuck, his mom should have just accepted a femme boy not been a cheerleader for Frankentwat.

Frankentwat is amazing! And incredibly sad.

I get the sense that going public and being on TV was a coping mechanism for the parents at first, this sort of public confirmation that they were doing the right thing and that this was "normal."

Once they got on that train though, there was no turning back.

Trankenstein's Monster, HRC, that former gay organization, is encouraging schools across the US to have readings of the children's book "I AM JAZZ" on February 28th.

The backlash against the educational system glorifying what's happened to this poor kid will be enormous. No one sane wants to see their kid go through this, and the fact that it's now being glamorized and indoctrinated into school kids?

Gays need to speak out or risk being tarred by this madness.

R305 the term "neovagina" has been around since the very early days of SRS. It is the true medical term, not a fucking "sop". What is sad, is these fucking charlatan / fellow brainwashed surgeons are now dropping the "neo" and referring it to a vagina, which it obviously is not. Everything is being reframed, re-termed, re-re-re, blah, blah, blah in order to make all of this seem perfectly natural and pedestrian, which as we can see from the article upthread, it is most certainly not.

R310 Your first hand account was fascinating and invaluable to this discussion. I hope you feel better for talking about it, and I hope anyone else who has had any experiences comes forward to tell theirs here.

As a woman, I find the whole "I preferred playing with dolls and wearing makeup as a child so I knew I was a girl" beyond insulting. Nevermind the physical complications and risks that come along with being female, it's all the societal crap that happens from day 1.

There was a study where participants were asked to guess the sex of a newborn and the study showed more accurate guesses than expected.

Turns out, after further investigation, it appears the research team held girls differently -- more gingerly, close to the body -- and people picked up on that.

And so it begins..

What about the nerve endings down there? If I had to shove a slightly too large object into my earring hole for 30 minutes several time per day, that would be painful. And that's just an earlobe!

R336, the term SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery) is now considered outdated; 'gender reassignment' or 'gender confirmation' seems to be preferred usage.

Of course any notion of 'sex reassignment' is yet another impossibility in this grotesque grab-bag of impossibilities and illusions. Sex cannot be changed in humans. It is immutable. Gender on the other hand is a construct that varies across cultures. So why risk surgery (any surgery no matter how 'minor' carries a measure of risk, ranging from problems with anesthesia to post-surgical infections to permanent loss of sensation from nerve damage) and mutilate one's body for a cultural construct?

Not to mention the real and significant cancer, heart attack, stroke and MS risks from hormones, R339.

It’s OK to be a boy who likes makeup. It’s OK to be a girl who likes GI Joe. It’s not OK to tell people they can become the opposite sex - it’s impossible. This way leads to unobtainable expectations and when it all falls down all that’s left is bitter regret at best or suicidal depression.

Agree, R341. Always enlightening to follow the money.

Also, think about why Ocasio-Cortez is involved in promoting Mermaids, a charity promoting transing kids in the UK. She was elected to Congress from NYC. Is T the new plank in the socialist agenda? Seems like she has plenty of US based concerns on her plate.

r339, which is exactly why I prefer to use the long recognized term SRS. I refuse to buy into the re-framing of this bizarrely faddish phenomenon. Fuck preferred usage. It's snowballing out of control. See "neovagina" for example. Now the "preferred usage" is "vagina" Get the fuck out of here with that shit.

While I'm at it, the term "cis" can go straight back to the hell-pit it crawled out of.

[quote] What is sad, is these fucking charlatan / fellow brainwashed surgeons are now dropping the "neo" and referring it to a vagina, which it obviously is not.

And, women who have the real thing are told they now must refer to it as a "fronthole." This has to be the 2nd most misogynistic thing to call a vagina. (Number one would be "fuckhole")

Another body part that seems to get ignored is the clitoris. Re-fashioning the head of a penis, with functioning nerve endings, is extremely difficult. Pray that Jazz's neo-clit doesn't turn black and fall off. His surgical team seems less than competent.

Her surgical team is probably addled by their own narcissism and cross sex hormones, R344.

I don't know why Dr. Bowers went to the dark side. She had a very interesting reality show back when she had her practice in Colorado. She seemed very personable, wise, no bullshit and skilled. Whoever did her surgery was damn good. That's about as close to passing as someone of her build could get. Now Dr. Bowers is the fucking devil as far as I am concerned. I hope she gets sued into oblivion.

Interesting clip from the Oprah network.

His parents really did transition him at the age of 5.

He was a cute boy. And obviously the "sissy" who probably would have grown up to be a gay man.

You are all fucking crazy, in another thread you're celebrating another transgender finding a new love, you all raved about POSE and yet you slam Jazz and her family.

Yep, R347. A little gayling. But the dad deserves kudos for accepting those traits in a castrated version of his son? Please.

Jazz will probably die a premature death from suicide or cancer. Hope he can live with having made his kid a social experiment and figurehead for an agenda rather than providing a warm, loving, truly accepting childhood.

I thought I was a puppy for a bit as a toddler. My parents let me bark and play around but reminded me I was a person.

Jazz was and is a femme man. That is and will always be true on a cellular level, no matter the costume or plastic surgery.

His father should have worked through taking his young SON to preschool in a princess dress. Or, alternatively, saying dress up is what we do at home. How many here had parents who talked through the social ramifications for us as kids of going out in something girly? That is what parents do. They are reality checks, they set limits, they love. Not gaslight and financially exploit.

Dad has a bit of gayface and mom looks tranny herself. Such an odd family.

Ouch! and to have it all televised is an immediate WTF

That picture R335 is so cringeworthy. Reminds me of a college brochure. I’m also sure that the “deeply tolerant” parents of the little girl holding the book would be thrilled to see that picture and know what was being read to her.

R342, self-proclaimed actor/ life guru Vincent D'Onofrio went off on TERFs (TERF is the slur Trans Activists hurl at anyone who questions even one iota of their crazed dogma) on his Twitter feed. D'Onofrio then got an earful from lesbians, gay men against the Trans crap, feminists and parents of kids being suckered into medically transitioning.

Rather than back off, D'Onofrio doubled down. These are parents objecting to Big Pharma making guinea pigs out of their primarily gay kids and D'Onofrio is very viciously disparaging them.

But then, D'Onofrio, on his Twitter feed, started railing against Big Pharma himself, and put up a link to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez railing against Big Pharma.

So a man, D'Onofrio, who'd just been hurling slurs at parents trying to save their kids from Big Pharma, starts a tirade about Big Pharma himself, and then champions Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who endorsed a transgender kids UK "charity," Mermaids, that is affiliated with a doctor who is proscribing puberty blockers and hormones to kids ( a Big Pharma BONANZA!) under the UK age of consent.

The cognitive dissonance of Trans supporters is mind-bending.

Course they would, R351, extra virtue signalling points.

This is literally indoctrination in public schools. It is astonishing and OUR organizations were hijacked to spearhead it. Meanwhile, we can be legally discriminated against in housing, employment and custody in many states. Guess we were a means to an end, huh?

A generation, perhaps more, of gay and lesbian children are literally being annihilated whilst everyone cheers at how accepting and progressive it is. Orwellian use of language for sure.

Marry me, R252! You get it.

This entire portion of the zeitgeist is proof how cognitively simple most people are, and their few to non existent critical thinking skills. It's going to get worse. People don't have their feet on the ground and aren't learning through lived experience.

Really r352? I don't have twitter and didn't know about that but I did know that a few months back he posted that he was considering taking a role of a real asshole so I am guessing a killer or KKK guy or something and he wanted the advice of his fans as to whether he should. That struck me as being so douchey and virtue signaling, like we wouldn't know he was just playing a role. He sucks.

Kids compelled via social pressure to read I am Jazz reminds me of World Hijab day. Surely we can object on the grounds of cultural appropriation, no?!

Although both are actually really grooming...

An endocrinologist deconstructs the inaccuracies (read pro-Trans propaganda) in "I AM JAZZ"

And yet, later this month, children across the US are going to be forced to read this rubbish book thanks to a "gay" (read Trans) organization, HRC.

R359, good article.

I used to scoff at those talking about the feminization of men through plastics and other chemicals in the environment or books like The End of Men.

That said, hard not to see the agenda served. From link above:

In fact, most children who suffer from gender dysphoria will no longer experience it by the time they become adults. In other words, about 90 percent of biologically male children who believe they are female as young children, when allowed to go through normal puberty and enter adulthood as men, will identify as biological males.

Um, why would that not be the best outcome then?

I guess the suicide rate going up after transition and the irreversible sterilization go to zero population growth.

This is all as brazen and hidden in plain sight as Michael Jackson.

In the link at R359, the doc mentions substance abuse as one of the likely co-morbid conditions. Jazz was snapped buying weed at a young age, no?

And the parents taking Jazz to a drag club at 16 is weird, just like those other pervy Munchhausen parents. It is GAYS who are going to get the blowback. Adult entertainment is for adults. Who is letting children into these bars/clubs?

Eh, at least Jazz was not made to dance on a bar for dollars like that other kid or Honey Boo Boo. Tends to result in CPS being called, although they never help any of these exploited for cash kids.

[quote]There are good reasons to let trans MtF teens take puberty-blocking drugs

NO THERE AREN'T!

What if the MtF teens were hooked up to a blood testing device that was also strapped to a trigger sensitive bomb that would go off if their body testosterone increased to a normal male level??? What THEN, r363??!!

Lol.

Puberty blockers and cross sex hormones impede the important brain development that occurs during adolescence. Surely ethics alone requires that process to proceed unimpeded when IQ, not to mention sterilization of the mentally is at stake?

Since 90% of kids desist after puberty (almost all growing up to become gay men and lesbians) it is clear what the agendas are in preventing that outcome.

GENDER NON-CONFORMING is NOT "TRANS"!

GENDER NON-CONFORMING is NOT "TRANS"!

GENDER NON-CONFORMING is NOT "TRANS"!

There is NO SUCH THING AS "TRANS" ANYTHING!

There is NO SUCH THING AS "TRANS" ANYTHING!

There is NO SUCH THING AS "TRANS" ANYTHING!

^ has had too many trans fats

Since Jazz was born male all Jazz's brain cells are XY. That was an interesting part to read

Every cell in his body has and always will have male chromosomes.

His feelings about that and any other mental health problems cannot be addressed by carving up his body.

Did repeated surgeries make Michael Jackson happy and well adjusted?

Note to self, NEVER tweet #jazzhands

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

There are no good intentions here, R371: some of this madness is about lowering the age of consent. If a child can be considered to know their mind enough to consent to life-altering medications and surgery, these creeps are hoping that the thinking will then go that a child is also able to know their mind enough to consent to sex.

The Pedophile Lobby, renamed MAPs for Minor Attracted Person, is very deliberately using the Transgender Lobby, both in copying the Trans Lobby's smash & grab techniques, but also because they both want the age of consent lowered.

Don't believe me? Here -a feminist screenshot this manifesto.

Keeping a Frankentwat from sealing shut is akin to a part time job. I have heard that it hurts and sometimes there is bleeding. These kidts cannot possibly grasp what they are signing up for, for a pocket likely to rarely if ever get used, prone to infection, no orgasms and sterile. This schedule linked below is brutal and you cannot slack off - once depth is lost it may not be possible to regain it. How many adults, never mind teens could be so consistent? What would teens otherwise be doing with this time - holding down a pt job, pursuing education or hobbies, developing socially, etc?

What happened to parents wanting kids to be minimally socially functional, employable, NOT medicalized or prone to early death?

What exactly does "vaginal dilation" entail? That schedule is crazy.

r373 That schedule is horrifying. Thank god there's no schedule for being gay!

More like a she-duel.

It probably involves some type of speculum you have to crank open to widen your front gole. This whole trans madness is barbaric. I imagine this child's suicide likelihood is through the roof!

R373, I hadn't realized that dilators of different sizes are used in each session. The dilation business seems like it must be such a reminder to the person that the physiology has been constructed. At least, after 2 years, it's down to 2-3 times per week.

R378 For the rest of their shortened lifetimes

LGB need to separate from T; not to create hostillity but because transgender is inherently problematic since it is a psychological issue; not biological and the attempt to ignore biology violates other people's rights and nature as when lesbians are told women have penises and get called transphobic for defending the only and true nature of homosexuality.

WW the OP to protect the thread.

R303 is a,fucking idiot. The Frankenminge is an open wound.

R374 see linked article at r191 for dilation details. It's a comprehensive description of why the dilation is necessary and how it must be done.

I will say the one surprising item in that link was that it mentions some MtT's can, in fact, self-lubricate a little with fluid from their intact prostate gland and/or something called the Cowpers gland. I still assume that any of them who claim to get gushing wet are delusional liars.

Jazz will become an opioid addict to deal with the pain (physical and mental) and will OD.

The cruel irony is that the movement is being driven by adult male "non-op" transgenders. They've been through puberty, love fucking (mostly real women) and love jerking off to porn. They're proud of their dicks and would never dream of cutting them off.

And yet, they use angel-faced "trans kids" as the family-friendly front for their movement.

Let's hope (despite all evidence) Jazz's transition works out. But if it doesn't, he should become vocal spokesperson for the de-transition movement.

2 1/2 hours PER DAY for years to dilate? Literally, like a pt job, or more, that is just under 18 HOURS per week. That is purportedly the reason they are pushing the surgery younger and younger, so the parents can supervise the schedule in high school for years, prior to the kid going to college. Imagine that being your teen years. No wonder they are on SM all the time, they are stuck in a bed or chair with a tube in their Frankentwat.

T are nothing like LGB and in fact pose a huge threat to our very definition, not to the physical threats to women and children.

Mengele surely was the one who dreamed this all up.

Agree, R382, no one has to spend hours per day for years dilating their belly button to prevent its closure.

The schedule does look like a lot of work. Watched the last I Am Jazz episode and in it they used some stomach lining that the doctors say can produce some lubrication. After the surgery they kept telling Jazz that's she's glowing. They also remind her that women aren't competitive about vaginal depth

Who's asshole did her medical "team" pull that little nugget from? R388 What an odd thing to say. Sounds like they know they already did a botch job, and she's likely going to seal back up PDQ. It also contradicts the SANE article posted upthread, where they emphasize the importance of depth.

Well, since the POINT is for someone to stick their DICK in the faux pocket, the depth is kinda the whole POINT, no?!

I think it was her mom or sister when Jazz was in recovery. I just thought it was interesting they gave her a little instruction on her new body.. more like, relax, it's not a big dick. ???

Said another way, they achieved a good 7" depth but they don't want her bragging about it?

Concerns for MtT if they live to old age.

Wait, I thought it was gender CONFIRMATION, you mean it is not? Who woulda thunk it?

R312 fyi 4chan hates everything, they are definitely not Reddit.

Women do not have vaginal depth to be competitive about because the vagina is dynamic in expanding, has muscles, etc. Seems like something a guy would be competitive about Jarron.

Ii don't get why they don't prefer some vulva, a clit, and a 1 or 2 cm crevice that is not interior at all, just normal, healed exterior skin. A decorative mussy with a clit and pissehole that works. All the passionate action could be in the butt where there's a prostate, to boot. The mussy appliqué could be very convincing looking in clothes and nude and no health hazards, no pain.

If they let the hole close up, does that mean they can no longer pee?

Is Jazz located in South Florida?

Surrounded by Haitian, Dominican, Cuban, and Puerto Rican sizemeat, that neovagina will destroyed and rushed to the hospital in no time. (Is that the next TLC docu-series? Trans ER)

As a homosexual male, Jazz better figure out that the mouth and the ass are the only two viable options for pleasing a man.

Or, restrict his dating pool to gentle lovers with 5 1/2 cocks who are interested in dating high-profile, emotionally unstable, MTF reality-TV personalities.

Regardless of what you think of transgender, since it is a concept about your biological gender and not your sexuality, they shouldn't be a part of LGB. It's not the same mission.

Poster at Reddit, hmmmm, GP docs in UK are backing away from the Mermaids propoganda. Too bad schools will not do that with HRC here.

Somebody needs to tell AOC she helped raise money for a UK charity that doesn't meet the standards of the medical establishment in the UK. How progressive and woke.

From the Times (Mermaids is the charity)

Training guide ‘pushed GPs to endorse gender swaps’ The royal college for family doctors has scrapped a course it says is making its members uneasy

Nicholas Hellen, Social Affairs Editor February 3 2019, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

The professional body for family doctors has dropped a course provided by a transgender activist charity because GPs felt it pushed them to guide patients towards gender reassignment.

The course on gender variance, which the Royal College of General Practitioners had hosted on its website since 2015, has been withdrawn.

The college’s decision represents a significant response by the medical establishment at a time of growing disquiet about the surging number of children who are transitioning.

Dr Jonathan Leach, honorary secretary, said the online module, developed and paid for by the Gender Identity Research and Education Society (Gires) “risked creating unrealistic expectations for patients regarding the role of the GP in initiating treatment”.

He added: “We understand that access to specialist gender reassignment services in the NHS is inadequate, and that this is incredibly frustrating for trans patients and their families.

“But GPs should not have to bear the brunt of poor access to specialist services by being put in a position where they are being asked to prescribe treatment that they are not trained to prescribe or monitor safely without expert support.”

Gires said it developed the course to help GPs assessing young trans people and adults. Gires paid the college £7,837 to host the course on its website.

But the two fell out after the college made changes to the course without informing Gires. The college objected to the charity Mermaids, which supports transgender children and their families, being recommended for referrals, saying: “Delete Mermaids from the list of people to use for support and just use Gires. Mermaids have become very controversial.”

Mermaids advised the makers of the ITV drama Butterfly, which starred Anna Friel as a mother whose son, Max, identifies as a girl from a young age. The drama was criticised as an “advert” by the pressure group Transgender Trend, which is alarmed by the growing number of children changing gender. The Big Lottery Fund is reviewing a decision to grant £500,000 to Mermaids.

The college said it was simply trying to protect GPs from feeling that they were under pressure to prescribe hormones to trans patients, and that some GPs lacked expertise in such a complex area.

“It is also important that we only prescribe if we are happy that safe monitoring is in place,” its documents warn.

It said many GPs might have just one or two patients with gender dysphoria, others none. “We are aware of some GPs who have felt so uneasy that they have declined to prescribe,” the college added.

Gires, which shapes public attitudes with factsheets for schools, said it “could not agree to changes made in direct contravention of NHS and General Medical Council guidelines, and give GPs excuses to deny access to healthcare for transgender people”.

Gires maintains it is “becoming ever more apparent that 5% of the population [or 3.3m people] are gender-diverse”. By contrast the Government Equalities Office estimates that 200,000 to 500,000 people are defined under the term “trans”.

R265, "Implanted entire embryo" is one definition. But so is using a combination of donor sperm and the "surrogate's" own egg.

In any case, the term downplays the physical, psychological, and emotional realities of a woman's pregnancy and childbirth.

R388 and r389, The point was (and is) that "vaginal (mispronounced by Dr. Marci-Mark as "va-GI-nal") depth" is simply not a topic on real females' radar. Nor is it part of any normal gynecological exam.

Real women can accommodate, KWIM?

Are men really this ignorant? Urethra is not located inside the vagina!

Yeah, but we aren't talking about a real vagina, so who knows

Sometimes feces and urine can pour into/out of the neovagina, R403

Post-op fistulas are the cause and this is documented in several post-SRS accounts.

One horrifying post-SRS account ...

[quote] Possible complications of SRS are numerous, but perhaps the most common, and also the most troublesome, is a rectovaginal fistula. A fistula of this type is an opening between the rectum and the newly-created vagina, and can occur if the surgeon dissects too deeply or the patient dilates improperly. Whatever the cause, the problem must be addressed immediately to avoid further complications.

[quote] Discovering that one has a rectovaginal fistula is unpleasant. Symptoms include intrusion of intestinal fluids, gases and feces into the vagina, and often intestinal distress. For a small fistula, the only clue may be a brown discharge appearing on a pad. A larger fistula makes its presence well known. Upon discovery of a fistula, the patient should immediately be examined by a doctor--if not the doctor who performed the SRS, then a competent physician. The possibility of infection is very high.

[quote] Repair of a fistula can be time-consuming and expensive. If the fistula is large, an immediate temporary colostomy may be required so that a repair can be effected. The colostomy is necessary to divert feces away from the injured area so that it may heal properly after being repaired. For smaller fistulas, doctors occasionally may wish to wait for a few months to allow the SRS site to heal before attempting a repair. Even for smaller fistulas, however, a temporary colostomy lasting a couple of weeks may be required.

To be fair to R397, I've seen other gay men make this mistake. I blame poor public school education; most men, gay or straight, probably don't understand much about female anatomy.

A T identified man DOES NOT HAVE FEMALE ANATOMY. FFS.

Who knows what they do with the urethra when the cock is carved up and the pieces re-positioned? Sure is not where nature put it, so reasonable question.

R407 I should hope that straight men who watch porn might have noticed the peehole ABOVE the vagina.

If her neo-vag was constructed to resemble the real vagina, why would they put the urethra inside it? Real women don't pee out of their vagina. So if her hole closes up, she should still be able to pee out of her URETHRA, the way it's intended.

The pee hole is separate from the front hole. However the frankenholes are usually not perfectly symmetrical and sometimes this causes pee to fly everywhere. They will never pee like a female.

Interesting, R337. Do you have a link for that?

[quote]the term SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery) is now considered outdated; 'gender reassignment' or 'gender confirmation' seems to be preferred usage.

It is absolutely chilling to see the political/pharma -biased "gender confirmation" term used with children.

The head of the penis (with expensive SRS) is made into an imitation clitoris. So, it wouldn't even be an absurd notion to think that post-op trannies can pee out of their clits.

R413 I assumed they diverted the urethra, no?

Who knows, R414? They also said that Jazz still has a cowper's gland which usually contributes a small bit of fluid to ejaculated semen (most comes from the prostate.) But this fluid is somehow supposed to now lubricate the neovagina?!?

So, who knows where the urine comes out. It's no wonder the whole mess started to come apart at the seams as soon as Jazz left the hospital.

Women don’t talk amongst each other about vaginal depth or width. Vaginas are elastic and can accommodate larger penises and the occasional big headed baby.

R342, She was recently tweeting "Charlotte Clymer" this:

(Also - sorry I said “cisgendered” instead of the correct “cisgender.” I’ve learned and am growing too✨)

Charles Clymer is probably fully erect knowing that yet another dimwitted woman has submitted herself and lies prostrate at his size 12M feet.

And the chances of Clymer getting "the chop" are 0.00%.

But, hey, let's raise money to slice-and-dice every "sissy" and "tomboy" who feels like they don't fit in to society.

R401, I am glad you seem to have moved away from accusing "surrogacy" to be the source of the current gender madness.

In the United States almost all surrogates carry embryos that are not genetically linked to them: this is in fact a requirement for any surrogacy agency (it is a multi-billion dollar business, based primarily in California).

Only women who have already had children can become surrogates. And in order to become one, they must have an extensive interview with a psychologist to make sure that they are not susceptible to the psychological and emotional suffering you invoke. Thus, hypothetically, should you decide (from economic need, perhaps) that you would like to be a surrogate, you would not qualify.

Have you spoken to many surrogates? I have. They are happy to do good to otherwise childless couples, they (universally) love being pregnant but don't want more children, and they appreciate the substantial sum of money they are paid.

For anyone who really wants to know how everything gets rewired and where the urethra ends up, here's a video. There are no captions or audio descriptions of what's happening but it's fairly self explanatory if you know the basic anatomy of male and female genitalia (and if you can bear to watch).

Jazz's surgery would have been even more complicated as his stunted little boy's penis could not be inverted and they had to cobble a pocket together using stomach lining. Presumably they still used his penis head as a faux clit and trimmed&diverted his urethra.

Is it 85-90% of MtT's who keep their dicks fully intact or 90-95%? I forget. But of course as r385 pointed out, the irreversible surgery is being pushed on the most vulnerable group, GNC kids and teens, and the I Am Jazz series is effectively propaganda for radical (wholly unnecessary) surgery on young people.

Gender stereotypes.

[quote]Jazz's surgery would have been even more complicated as his stunted little boy's penis could not be inverted and they had to cobble a pocket together using stomach lining. Presumably they still used his penis head as a faux clit and trimmed&diverted his urethra.

How is this not child abuse? It's shocking. The parents should be brought up on charges. If Jazz still wanted to undergo surgery after age 18 it would be his choice to do so but he's only a kid (and one with a famewhore family, sadly). Why the urgency to intervene surgically at so young an age? Surely waiting a bit wouldn't have caused any harm. Rushing into elective surgery is always a bad idea. Even minor surgery is no joke, and this sounds like a highly complex procedure with the potential for multiple revisions down the road (something you want to avoid; I say this as someone who has undergone multiple surgeries).

R393, I doubt whether lack of ongoing dilation due to dementia is particularly high on the 'things to worry about' hierarchy. I've NEVER heard of a dementia patient pursuing sex... not even gay guys who were formerly hosting Folsom Street sex parties in their 60s. At most, they might compulsively masturbate in socially-inappropriate settings... but actual hook-ups are beyond most of their interpersonal skill sets by that point.

If Jazz becomes a demented 80 year old woman & lets her neovag shrink into a de-facto second belly button by neither dilating nor ramming dildos up there, chances are SHE WON'T CARE at that point because she'll know better ways to get off, or she won't care about getting off at all.

IMHO, the more disturbing mental image is of her mom nagging her to masturbate & playing yenta (finding the perfect TV-ready boy to officially devirginize Jazz, then documenting his 6-week educational briefing prior to an event that looks like something from a cheesy Bollywood sex comedy about an arranged marriage).

I would think the concern is about infection, sepsis, and possibly the tissue going necrotic r423.

I watched the episode again to make sure I heard correctly. It is worse than I mentioned. The exact quote from Mom when Jazz is at the hotel recently discharged from SRS surgery and complaining of pain and some bleeding is: "That's nothing. You should see when you get your period." Gaslighting and parental psychological abuse at its worst.

So what happens when the hole seals shut? Do trans-women get another surgery to create a new hole or do they just not bother?

The mom cannot be right in the head, does she understand that Jaron has not got a uterus or ovaries, so, no menstruating?

Whether the Mom knows and understands or not, the brainwashing of this child to believe in and have expectations of life as a biological woman is the real crime and tragedy here. Criminal child abuse resulting in a lifetime of pain, disappointment and anguish.

Are people just pants-on-head retarded now? Jazz will never menstruate. Men don't have periods. This is beyond daft.

And remember when Jazz asked the father if men really look that much at their wife's/girlfriend's vaginas? That was last year, rather late to be asking. And they didn't answer.

This child is begging for love and being butchered instead. How incredibly sad. This makes me angry! All gender non-conforming people, straights included, should be outraged. When will this insanity end?

What's is also horrifying is that a gay organization, HRC, is sponsoring a nationwide reading of I AM JAZZ to school kids on February 28th.

What's even more surreal and dangerous is that a teachers organization, the National Educational Association (NEA) is co-sponsoring this Trans Lobby propaganda effort. The NEA is the the country’s largest professional employee organization, representing 3 million educators across the United States.

This poor kid just got his micro-penis scrambled on TV, and yet a purportedly GAY ORGANIZATION is using him to indoctrinate probably gay children into taking extremely dangerous and unnecessary drugs and getting the same surgery, and other kids to accept it as normal.

And a TEACHERS ORGANIZATION is involved too.

I am speechless.

Really, the backlash against this bullshit will be extreme, and the L , many of whom already want out of the Alphabet Soup, and the G, who will suffer too.

[R420] Is it 85-90% of MtT's who keep their dicks fully intact or 90-95%? I forget. But of course as [R385] pointed out, the irreversible surgery is being pushed on the most vulnerable group, GNC kids and teens, and the I Am Jazz series is effectively propaganda for radical (wholly unnecessary) surgery on young people.

Of course 90% keep 'em. They're straight men in dresses targeting children whose parents would rather have them mutilated rather than chance having them mature into gay individuals.

Funny them working together like that, huh?

It is not just J and kids like him who are huge $ streams to new industries, FGM has been imported into Western countries and is booming. Crazy times we are living in.

They keep saying that the prostrate will provide lubrication, but that makes no sense, because the prostrate is not in the neovag pocket...or is it? I mean, did they connect the neovag pocket to the rectum?

Also is that her stomach lining they used (meaning, they also made an incision into her stomach?) or from a donor (usually a cadaver?)?

How many different surgical sites were involved in this one mess?

[quote]This poor kid just got his micro-penis scrambled on TV, and yet a purportedly GAY ORGANIZATION is using him to indoctrinate probably gay children into taking extremely dangerous and unnecessary drugs and getting the same surgery, and other kids to accept it as normal.

MARY! There is no discussion of hormone treatments or surgery in the children's picture book "I am Jazz," which features Jazz as a little kid, prior to the introduction of puberty blockers, etc. The point of the book is simply to explain that some kids' bodies don't match their gender, and it's aimed more toward trans kids' classmates and peers than toward transgender children themselves. You're still free to argue that its message is wrong and it shouldn't be read in schools, but to say that the book encourages gender-nonconforming children to seek hormone treatments and surgery is totally off-base.

One too fucking many r436. It is abominable what they have done to this kid. This is some Island of Dr. Moreau shit

It is a broad based reading event of propoganda. Children who suddenly experience ROGD will seek out those hormone treatments, often with support and encoragement from strangers on the internet. If the parents object, they may lose custody to the State and our tax dollars will fund it. Do not be so naive, or if you are shilling, do not peg us as morons. Many here were GNC kids and were simply fortunate to be born in a different era.

We went from kids being bullied to the brief euphoria of some legal progress to touching a doll means castration for you? And remember the MRA/TRA Cotton Ceiling panel imperiling lesbians was hosted by none other than Planned Parenthood. Now teachers are working with a propoganda outfit in the schools to push this and they ARE HIDING BEHIND US! It should be clear what the agenda of these groups is and it is not the well being of women, children, gays or lesbians, as you may have formerly thought when hearing NEA, PP or HRC.

Do NOTHING, leave the kids alone as Roger Waters advises and 90% will outgrow this after puberty. They will also experience normal brain development and have mature eggs and sperm to store in case they want to do this later. One argument was transing early would make them more likely to pass. Jarron shows how the body fights back, he is male on literally a cellular level and it is becoming more and more apparent to a casual observer. They need a steady supply of cute young androgynous kids to sell the fantasy.

Wonder how old J will be when he is diagnosed with cancer?

To be fair, parents are terrorized with propoganda that the kids will kill themselves if this is not permitted, or they fear losing custody and it happening anyway. What has the State become when it plays the role of Mengele with mentally ill and autistic kids as the targets?

[quote]The point of the book is simply to explain that some kids' bodies don't match their gender

This is not the sort of message little kids who are still developing need to hear. Their bodies are fine AS IS. This is bullshit trans propaganda. NO ONE is born in the 'wrong body'. The problem lies outside-- the straitjacket that society tries to impose upon us from a young age. Let's work on fixing that, shall we? The message children need is to practice self-acceptance, not to despise their own perfectly healthy bodies because the culture we live in has totally fucked-up ideas about what makes a man a man or a woman a woman. I'm so glad that I grew up during a time when playing in the dirt, climbing trees, and preferring the company of boys meant only that I was a tomboy, and not a candidate for being fast-tracked onto hormone treatment. We live in a fallen world, truly.

R437, you obviously missed the link posted at R359 in which an endocrinologist deconstructs the book I AM JAZZ and exposes its medical and other fallacies. I would suggest you read the article.

For all of you thinkers, here's a very interesting piece on not just the rapid and inexplicable rise of Transgenderism as a chaos vector, but the underpinnings of this and other movements.

I got out of college before post-modernism and queer theory turned coeds' brains into mush, so the linked article was very thought-provoking for me as someone who is trying to figure out what's happening on a global scale, because we do appear to be living in Upside Down World. I'm not endorsing the author or his words, I just found what he has to say very interesting

R441, this is a very interesting article. I'm still reading it, but want to thank you for posting.

(The analogies to the children's crusade in particular are thought-provoking at least. I have to think it over.)

[quote][R437], you obviously missed the link posted at [R359] in which an endocrinologist deconstructs the book I AM JAZZ and exposes its medical and other fallacies. I would suggest you read the article.

Actually, I did read it, and it was biased (in a very disingenuous way) and ridiculous. Most of the "fallacies" the article "exposed" simply weren't relevant to I AM JAZZ because they concern topics (hormones, surgery, e.g.) not discussed at all in the book and/or not appropriate for the primary grade audience the book is aimed at. (Like a kiddy picture book about a trans kid is really going to delve into the issue of mental illness among the transgender population.)

Personally, I am all in favor of simply supporting little GNC kids in dressing, behaving and being however they want to be and leaving the issues of declaring a official trans identity and seeking any accompanying medical/surgical interventions until the kid is much, much older (by which time gender may indeed no longer be an issue). But to treat I AM JAZZ as though it's a primer on how to transition is bullshit.

The point of the book (and the national reading day) is not to provide scientific info on transgenderism/gender dysphoria or to educate GNC kids and their parents on the one "correct" path to a successful transition but simply to encourage gender-conforming little kids to be accepting and kind toward transgender peers. In other words, it's an anti-bullying effort.

Do I think it's the best kids' book out there on this topic? Not necessarily. I'd rather see teachers reading their classes something like MY PRINCESS BOY, which sends the message that it's fine for boys to like pink, dresses, princesses, etc., w/o declaring that a boy who likes those things is really, definitively, a girl. Nonetheless, I don't think I AM JAZZ and the associated reading day have some secret, nefarious goal of getting every little GNC kid on hormones and ready for surgery ASAP.

No, the point is to induce ROGD so the numbers will grow. Duh, that is the point of propaganda.

This is truly the gay apocalypse that we are witnessing before our eyes. The trans lobby is insidious, they have taken over gay organizations and are now working on taking over women’s rights organizations.

Soon there will be no more gays, because the behavior can be fixed with magic pills and surgery.

Women will lose medical funding to gender confirmation surgeries.

In 40 years this will be regarded as a ghoulish experiment on gay children. I wonder how the fem boy will feel when he finally realizes he is not a woman. What gay man will be willing to fuck a mutilated eunuch?

What is ROGD?

ROGD = Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria

They took over the womens orgs a long time ago, sadly. PP is all about your pronouns now, an acquaintance works there. T are put in student leadership positions of womens orgs. Top to bottom, they are gone too.

It is the frantic parents, the get the L out women from the UK and astonishingly, the Heritage Foundation who are trying to fight back. Given the vast dangers posed by the Equality Acts simultaneously pending in the US and UK (funny that coincidence), it may be too late.

Oh, for fuck's sake, r447. That is not a real thing and certainly can't be induced by reading a kid a picture book about a trans child, any more than reading a story about a gay kid will turn young readers/listeners gay. Did reading books about straight children turn you straight?

For example, eminently qualified, stable, Anally surely can represent the interests of women, the repulsive name and dupers delight smirk are just bonuses.

[quote]They keep saying that the prostrate will provide lubrication, but that makes no sense, because the prostrate is not in the neovag ...

It's PROSTATE, not prostRate.

R451, my phone auto-corrected, and I didn't notice.

Sorry.

These kids are being judged and put on the Frankenstein path because they are tomboys, not manly enough, playing with the wrong toy, dress etc. - or they are autistic or anxious and OCD etc

I think we should even question the other fake "medical" (marketing/classifying) term "gender dysphoria" - it is just another made-up term to cement this as something requiring drugs/surgery/de-gaying

"Gender dysphoria (GD) was invented in the 1950s by reactionary male psychiatrists in an era when men were men and women were doormats. It is a term used to describe someone who feels strongly that they should belong to the opposite sex and that they were born in the wrong body. GD has no proven genetic or physiological basis" [And here, written in 2009, she was speaking of ADULTS. It more obvious what it all really is about when you see this applied to teens/children].

I saw this blog linked on Twitter

"I believe that gender identity is a fraud perpetrated by psychiatry, the likes of something the United States and other nations hasn’t experienced since the lobotomy era. As a result, I have returned to my male birth sex...

I will not be a party to advancing harmful gender ideologies that are ruining lives, causing deaths and contributing to the sterilization and mutilation of gender-confused children.

My history-making and landmark sex change to non-binary was a fraud based on the pseudoscience of gender identity. I am and have always been male. There should be no social or legal penalty for others to state that...

r450 It's sickening that 90% of the comments on that article have been removed. Even most of the ones they allowed to be posted were not completely supportive. Some people were just so confused, like the person who asked "what is a queer lesbian?". The straights have no idea what is going on, the idea of man dressing as a woman but wanting to still fuck women is just so beyond them. This is all because we are not allowed to have an open dialog about this issue in the media that most people are in the dark. I am sure this was by design.

R406 fistulas are unfortunately not that uncommon. You might have heard about the controversy surrounding a commemorative statue, Central Park, on a 19th-century American gynecologist who discovered a treatment for fistula, but by experimenting on Black women who were slaves and had not given permission. He also didn't use analgesia, as he supposedly thought Black people were less sensitive to pain.

[quote]The straights have no idea what is going on, the idea of man dressing as a woman but wanting to still fuck women is just so beyond them.

The whole 'transbian' thing is hard to wrap your head around unless you've encountered them in the wild doing their thing, i.e. harassing and importuning actual lesbians, who have had to endure pathetic straight dudes fetishizing them forever. The first time I heard a straight guy use the line 'I'm actually a lesbian in a straight man's body' was in front of me and my girlfriend when we were both in high school in 1982. I rolled my eyes at him back then but little did I know what still lay in the future...

There is a wiki page on the guy at R454 - not completely updated, it seems .. "in 2016, became the first person in the United States to have their sex legally declared as non-binary." Do you think the media will cover how he thinks now...?

[quote]Really, the backlash against this bullshit will be extreme, and the L , many of whom already want out of the Alphabet Soup, and the G, who will suffer too.

And maybe we should, I am so fucking angry that this is being done in our name. This is child abuse, plain and simple. And the most disgusting part is that the children being targeted are gender non-conforming children, those that the gay and lesbian movement traditionally supported.

'And maybe we should"

But it wasn't us. It was T, and G&L who took $$$$ to go along with this.

We were censored and shut out.

There needs to be more picketing of HRC and other orgs that promote this, including TLC and NEA - all of them

What's happening to Jazz is heartbreaking. I only hope this kid will end up relatively mentally stable but I just don't see how that can happen.

I am utterly fed up and frustrated with every LGBT org that goes along with the transing of children. For adults, it's a nonsense, but for children, it's madness. I gave up all work I was doing for LGBT charities and organisations because it had turned into T rights advocacy and being required to support extremely questionable charities such as Mermaids here in the UK. I will not raise money for these charlatans and I will not sign up to their goals. Every "non-gender-conforming kid" has my understanding, but trying to convince that child, and the world at large, that they are the wrong sex and that flipping over to the other, or adopting a non-binary identity, will "fix" their issues, is abuse in my opinion.

I have this image of him as eventually going through an emotionally painful realization that this has all been a fraud, probably stopping the hormones, etc., and becoming kind of a sage. Sort of like Tiresias in Greek myth.

[quote] kind of a sage.

But the brain needs hormones at certain times to fully develop. I actually have experience with adults who were pediatric oncology patients whose hormones were interrupted by chemo/rad therapy at a very age. (It is also sterilizing and they don't reach any kind of normal maturity, even with growth hormones given afterwards--when they work at all.

R461, have you signed the petition by gays and lesbians to tell Stonewall (UK's most prominent gay organization) to stop with the extreme Transgender Agenda? It's at the link. Please bookmark it and pass it along too.

The gay man who started the petition is Jonathan Best and his Twitter is @JonnnyBest (note the misspelling of Johnny in his twitter handle)

Yesterday, he said that over 250 people had signed the petition over the last 24 hours, so the move by gays and lesbians to distance themselves from the extreme Transgender Agenda is picking up speed.

I agree about telling gay organizations, politicians, and everyone else, including the teachers' organizations co-sponsoring the I AM JAZZ national reading, that you will not support the homophobia and misogyny of the Trans Lobby and will not support them as a result.

As laws come up in our legislatures, like the "Equality Act" in the US, time is running out to stop this, both in the US and the UK. We must organize and we must act.

Hi R464, yes, I was one of the early signatories on the petition and follow Jonathan (and various of the signatories) on Twitter, I also passed along the petition to some sympathetic friends who have signed too. There are a bunch of us very, very disillusioned with what Stonewall in particular has been doing. It is not possible to be entirely open about this without "transphobia!!!" accusations being thrown at you, even though I consider what has happened to Jazz for example to be result of clear homophobia, but I've put my name to the petition because enough is enough.

As a related point, see the attached link to a YouTube video encouraging kids to fill out the UK's Gender Recognition Act consultation and advising them that "everyone has a gender identity" and other nonsense. I do NOT want any part of this, I do not support this, NOT IN MY NAME. Leave. Kids. Alone.

R463, that's fascinating.

OP, even if you're lined out, thanks for the thread!

What disturbing propaganda at R465 - and aimed at kids

Jazz's brain chemical structure will always be that of a male, which is dominant. One day, in Jazz's middle 30s, Jazz will awaken to the horror of a life-altering decision made during his/her adolescence.

They started transing him at five

The posters upthread talking about straight people not getting it are correct, but I would like to add they do not often want to know more. Scottish comic Janey Godley has been going on and on about 'trans issues' for the last few days, but stated for her all it is about if the toilet issue. When people tried to point out the toileting issue is the least of OUR concerns it is met with ridicule and blocking. She is happy nopt having to think to much about an issue that she gets to support with no idea of the actual issues involved, and then she can gobble her virtue cookies in peace.

How does one communicate with people who do not actually want to know?

L&G millennials (except for a very few smart ones) do not know anything about the many issues involved and repeat all the T propaganda without thinking about it. They have no built-in shit detector or no immediate solidarity for obvious G&L issues because they have never had to fight for their rights/existence. And they have no knowledge of G&L history. I was told that a black trans started gay rights.

Communicate with people who do want to know, R470.

Muslims, Latinos, conservative Christians, the elderly, the disabled, women over 45 who didn't grow up with this "Lib" fem nonsense, fathers of daughters, grandfathers, Conservatives in general, women who have been sexually assaulted - all of these groups would be horrified at women's intimate spaces being thrown open to ANY man who SELF IDENTIFIES as a woman.

Explain that the Equality Act (and its equivalent in other countries) would not only take away any safety for a woman using public facilities, but would also mean that women might be patted down by a biological male at the airport, or forced to have a male perform a PAP smear or breast exam, or that Grandma would have to share a nursing home bathroom with a man.

The Left, especially and including gay and women's organizations, are lost to us on this issue -- in fact, the Left are the ones shoving this issue down our throats -- so, in order to stop this we have to appeal to the Right and the Middle.

Young people have been thoroughly immersed in queer theory, R471, so I can't really blame them for not getting it. But it's high time that they educate themselves, as they are always urging others to do, and 'check their privilege' along the same lines-- for them pride is a corporate-sponsored event, not a protest.

Your blanket dismissal of the Left is very short sighted. What's your deal?

Point out that under the Equality Act, boys and men would qualify to play on girls and women’s athletic teams, that they could receive girls athletic scholarships, that things like loans and other financial service meant to promote women-owned small businesses could go toward men. Talk about it in practical ways.

My deal, R474, is that I'm old and have been involved in politics for decades, so have long since discarded any notion that the Left can't pull major bullshit, such as erasing women and gays via changing the definition of "sex" via the Orwellian "Equality Act."

Also taking away the rights of parents to pull their kids back from transitioning, because the Equality Act would also ban transgender conversion therapy, so even if a therapist realized that the confused kid didn't really want puberty blockers or to actually trans, the therapist was not legally allowed to offer the child the alternative of just going through puberty. This Equality Act destroys parental rights to keep their kids from becoming sterile medical guinea pigs.

Don't worry, I despise the GOP. but right now, and ONLY ON THIS ISSUE, the GOP are on the side of women, gays and kids - no really. The Heritage Foundation just welcomed lesbians and feminists to speak on this issue, while NBC OUT practically burned them at stake. Read the linked DL thread for more info.

We're ultimately doing what they do in parts of the middle east and Asia...if a boy is a little feminine (or just gay) they go trans. It's disgusting. Watching it happen here and around other developed countries is frightening. These people who support it just want to enforce stereotypes and gender roles. The gay people who do it see an easy way out. It's all so fucked up. I never had an issue with it, although I never understood why it was grouped with gays and lesbians. Now, with what's happening, I've changed my tune. Sorry for maybe the 0.1% of people who it may be true for but its got to stop.

Slightly non conforming children must be trans, men can gain access to women only sex segregated spaces and positions, children are taken from parents who don’t comply. It’s anti gay, anti women and pro pedophile.

I don't bother with millenials. I raised one so well and open minded and non homophobic that he can't fathom my change of mind on trans issues. In fairness, he knows a bunch of perverts call themselves trans but he also still believes in 'real trans' people and i am to blame on that.

I talk to older (than millenials) women mostly about it and my talking points say : yes, being nice is nice but now, legally, because of all our niceness, if I were in need of a rape or abuse shelter my roommate could possibly be an intact straight male calling himself a lesbian. if I complain or have a ptsd episode because of it, I will be the one asked to leave. I show pictures of trans in sports. that's usually enough to open up the conversation and their minds.

Sounds like your son is very decent, if perhaps a bit misguided, so congrats on that.

Anyone who thinks that the left is totally with women has never encountered a Bernie Bro. By the way, there are plenty of dudes in the dem party who were just like the "Bros" before Bernie became a thing.

[quote]children are taken from parents who don’t comply

Has this ever actually happened?

He's a fantastic human being r480, I think he's my one great achievement. but my generation needs to take some responsibility for all of this. we raised the kids that led this whole craziness. it started with safe spaces and triggering and while good ideas, have gone completely mad in reality.

r476, spot on, this matter is simply too important to worry about party lines.

[quote] children are taken from parents who don’t comply

[quote] Has this ever actually happened? doubt it

Sorry for your lack of knowledge, R482. If you don't go outside of the mainstream media, you won't hear serious trans-critical news. Also, a number of citizen journalists who document the abuses of kids and concerned parents under trans ideology have been purged from the internet as publishing platforms (Wordpress) and social media giants (Twitter, Facebook) have deleted 1st-person stories and the accounts associated with them. One remaining website, 4thWaveNow.com is an eye-opening site where parents share their stories of dealing with gender clinics and counselors where "gender confirmation" is the model and a child's stated identity must not be questioned.

The highest percentage of these stories are from the parents of FTM kids who don't want their daughters to take testosterone and have double mastectomies. Here's one such example from the mainstream press ...

Wow -The comments on the petition to UK LGBT organization Stonewall to stop the Transgender agenda (linked at R464) are really pointed.

Gays and lesbians in the UK seem really fed-up with the Trans Activists and the LGBT organizations prioritizing the T, especially given the Trans Lobby demands that intimate female spaces be open to men who self-identify as women, the violence and threats T activists hurl at anyone who question them, and that gay kids are being transed.

Americans, read the comments linked at R464 - We are facing the same issues as the Brits, but we're way behind them in not only recognizing the problems, but also organizing to stop them, and, as a result, the Equality Act is going to be pushed through by the Democrats before just about any American knows the radical and negative changes it will bring to their lives.

The Equality Act will redefine the word sex to include "gender identity" Please read Andrew Sullivan's article (in the OP) and the related DL thread at the link to get an idea of what that will mean to homosexuals.

We have to get organized and we have to make our voices heard by lawmakers.

I told a story here once and no one believed me. I had an emergency situation and needed a place to stay, so I went for help at the LBGTQ student center at school because they had a poster that said they had emergency housing available. It was all bull, because the only spot they actually had was for trans students, not gay. They told me to go to a regular shelter. I don't blame a trans student for needing emergency housing, but I'm still pissed at the center when I think about it.

r471 Dont worry mama, there are more non-loony gay and lesbian millennials that you think (source: am an 88 millenial). Not enough, but the number is increasing.

To borrow a dumb phrase, the "red pill" on t issues is usually sports, since male transwoman competing against female women tends to offend every american's innate bias towards "fairness," which it is clearly not. I think the pendulum will really swing back when A. the many negative effects of "puberty blockers" become more known, and the inevitable lawsuits will ensure that they do, and B. the detransitioning/desisting chorus becomes loud enough to overcome the kneejerk trans censorship of that topic.

As to the effects of gender ideology on gays and lesbians, I view it as just another discrimination that we have to endure. And for a community that has faced so much hatred and violence as ours and persisted, that's sadly something we're more than equipped to deal with. A lot of people thought homophobia and attacks on homosexuality were largely behind us, but the harsh truth is that homophobia will never be over, it will always return wearing a different face.

The difference R488, is that the Equality Act will make this new homophobia into law before 99.9% of Americans have any idea what it is.

And the Americans who do know about the Equality Act, including Kamala Harris, who tweeted her support of the Act on January 31st, think that it will be HELPING homosexuals, because it's "gay" organizations pushing it.

Throwing up your hands and excepting this new homophobia is not an option, R488. This attack on homosexuals is coming from inside the house - in fact, it's very sneakily being done in homosexuals' name, so homosexuals have to be the ones to say to lawmakers, the media, and society, "I am homosexual. Do not redefine the word sex to include gender identity."

[quote]Throwing up your hands and excepting this new homophobia is not an option

What about accepting it, instead?

R344 - who told you that you "must refer to your vagina as a front hole" ? Specifically who?

We are part of hetero patriarchy.

Thank you all, this thread is full of great info and link. I always find this, when they are allowed to stay, the discussion is reasoned, clear and starkly on the side of reason, knowing damn well the T has descended into bizarre madness and what is happening is criminal

Ok, R491, we're going to ignore the questionable accuracy of Snopes as a fact-checking organization by doing our own homework on the term "front hole." Snopes' claim is easily disproved by going directly to the sources where each organization currently has their guidance on "trans inclusive" terminology online.

Here's the link download the HRC's PDF. You can also search for Planned Parenthood's advocacy of the term "front hole" as well has their willingness to give hormones to underage FTMs (depending on the state.)

Snopes' decision to portray this as message from one small agency (Healthline in California) that was picked up by the right wing media is deceptive because this ignores that fact that the largest LGBT-run organizations have been pushing medical staff to use these new terms for years. This also pretends that this is a US phenomenon with no mention of Canada and Europe.

I chuckle every time I see the photo in OPs post, it looks like she’s giving birth

Right on, R85. Plus, DL itself is also in the business of censoring trans-questioning posters by allowing them to be labelled as trolls by DLers who support the trans agenda.

I've never personally attacked anyone but I have openly questioned the trans agenda on this forum. For example: Google: When Feminists Abandon Girls by Abigail Shrier

^R485

What the DL webmaster doesn't what you to read apparently:

Google: News Channel 3: Girls encounter 'naked man' at Palm Springs Swim Center. Police say person 'self-identified as female'

There are almost daily videos of detransitioning on YouTube, and most of them seem to be girls who identified as boys. Fortunately, not all of them took testosterone beforehand. ALL of them went through some kind of serious trauma in their lives.

You are all full of shit, Jazz is well adjusted and she's 18. I love her parents, she's a lucky girl to have such support from her whole family. I'm sure Candis Cayne, Laverne Cox and even Caitlyn Jenner would all disagree with you.

[quote] Jazz is well adjusted

Not true. And, there are five seasons of I Am Jazz, plus many prior years of media appearances to prove this. Most people would define "well-adjusted" as having friends, career goals, and an overall state of emotional well being. Jazz has no real friends, no career goals, and is openly battling depression. Correction: There is one career goal - trans spokesperson.

So, to say that an 18 year-old adult is free to make any decision ignores that fact that Jazz has endured 13 years of grooming to believe that he is a girl and will eventually be a woman. Prior to this surgery, nearly a decade was spent with puberty blockers and hormones. Add to that, the pressure of being the family's primary source of income and you have mountain of pressure to go through with "gender confirmation" surgery.

R132 I am guessing that they understand that this show may end u being the best advertisement/instructional against MTF surgery.

I am hoping that in fact is the case, and that it saves other little gaylings from attempting such a horrible procedure.

As for his still being able to have anal, won't that be a bit of a drag without his prostate gland? Talk about a lose-lose situation.

I am convinced that it won't be the surgical complications and attendant lack of sexual satisfaction which ends up driving him to suicide.

I fear that when he truly reaches the realization that no straight man will ever sweep him off his feet and make him the princess he has always dreamed of being, he just won't be able to handle it. And as we have all said from the jump, if he had kept his penis(small as it may have been) he would at least been able to attract a fetish freak. Now? He is truly a eunuch.

From what I've seen of the show, it seems likely that Jazz will be paired up with a trans man. That's what happened with the long-haired blonde trans girlfriend of Jazz who appeared on the show.

Today I feel uncomfortable when transgender people speak for us as one single group with an agreed discourse in favour of trans activism when clearly we are now at conflict with what trans activism advocates which disregards the nature of sexual orientation and could eventually make us again unprotected.

It is not just Granny sharing a nursing home bathroom, it is Granny sharing a room with Steph-on-knee or Clymer.

Orwellian is right. Now Twitter is kicking off FtT who say that T are not women, not biologically or socially. Bless this person for speaking out, it is a threat to the utter BS of it all.

Thanks also to the Sunday Times and, never thought I would type this, to the Heritage Foundation for breaking through the media blackouts. The NYT and HuffPo are mere propoganda outlets.

I live in the US and had heard a lot about the UK Equality Act but very little about a US one, and I pay attention to this issue. People really need to talk to people you know and raise awareness.

At the link at R489 about the upcoming US "Equality" Bill it has:

The bill defines: "sex" to include a sex stereotype, sexual orientation or gender identity, and pregnancy, childbirth, or a related medical condition;

I see a lot if trans propaganda in there. Sex (noun) means biological sex. This is basic science. "Gender" is a "sex stereotype," not sex. That does not even make sense and is trans propaganda to confuse. Also "sex" is not "gender identity" that is trans propaganda to confuse.

PS: People will not be able to have a clear discussion about the issues if words mean completely different things. That is exactly how this has gotten this far

PSS: I don't even know why "pregnancy, childbirth, or a related medical condition" is defined as "sex" either. The whole "definition" of "sex" sounds like a combination of trans propaganda and ESL confusion.

Do you really think Joe Biden et al can wade through all of that and understand it?

R494 - the term "front hole" in the document that you linked is used 18 times. Every incidence of its usage refers to trans fauxginas.... NOT straight vaginas. Please cite the exact paragraph from HRC or Planned Parenthood that says "straight women MIUST refer to their vaginas as front holes."

I don't know why I said "straight"... I just mean biological women, lesbian or straight.

I don't know about the fronthole thing but I know teen Vogue or teen Cosmo now says "non prostate owners" to refer to women, so fuck them and boycott them.

[quote]Do you really think Joe Biden et al can wade through all of that and understand it?

Joe Biden needs to have the plot lines on [italic]Two Broke Girls[/italic] explained to him.

Gay people need to start a movement that separates us from trans. Let them do their thing but make sure we are completely different and not remotely relatable. Let the trans bullshit either flourish or burn to the ground. Either way, I don't want it dragging down the progress we gays and lesbians have made.

So I just spent an hour (or more?) reading this whole thread. Why is this such a circlejerk? I don't really even care about trans issues - but it's odd that anyone that says anything to remotely defend or support any kind of trans person is immediately attacked and silence (sound familiar? If not, the trans do the exact same thing - hello).

The obsession with dilation is also bizarre. There are probably over 100 posts in this thread talking about dilation. Has anyone on here had surgery before? You do know that ALL surgery requires post-op care, sometimes with months of dressing changes, wound cleaning, compression garments, and (gasp) tissue expanders (like in breast reconstruction after mastectomies). Yet, you are all OBSESSED with trannies sticking dildos in their "permanent wounds." Do you want to hear how I had to pack & clean my would after I had MOHS surgery for skin cancer so it would heal properly? Should I have just left it open & unattended? What about the fact I had to wear a retainer for 2 years after braces to keep my teeth from moving back to their "natural" position? Egads! A retainer defies God and the natural order of my orthodontia!

Also, I noticed a lot of posts talking about the absolute certainty that Jazz will commit suicide eventually If Jazz kills herself, it seems like a lot of you will rejoice & bask in the glow of your predictions. That's a bit fucked up - is it not?

Anyway - after an hour - I will say that R197 wins this thread,, as I will never get the term "poocunt" out of my head for the rest of my life now.

Ok go ahead and FF me. Let's see how fast my post goes grey with all you loons on this thread.

R511 probably a legacy from that guy who ran Teen Vogue and then left to start "them", a digital only media experience focused on how millions of trans are literally being murdered every five seconds

R514 For someone who "doesn't really care about trans issues" You sure seem to care an awful fucking lot.

[R514]

You haven't read the entire thread very closely, Tranny Shill.

We're actually thinking about the welfare of children.

We're even sparing a thought or two for old ladies being trapped in nursing homes with rapists in dresses.

R514 post operative care is far different from LIFELONG dilation and drugs.

Ummm R516 - if you could actually fucking read, my post was about how this thread is a circlejerk & full of illogical bullshit.

Of course - within minutes - as expected - you screeching banshees have descended!

R517 - the "welfare of children" is a cloak you are using for your blindly fueled rage toward trans people. It's complete bullshit & transparent as hell. And again, the logic fails. Your hysteria that we're going to be in a society where "all gays are transed" to avoid having a gay child is so illogical & impossible, it borders on delusion.

That is the T again, ignoring everything of importance in this thread and showing he does not care about the harm being done to minors with this insane T push

R514 Oh honey, we are not attacking you, we are mocking you. Mock mock mock.

[R521] You know 514 only wants to touch lesbians, kiddies, and demented old ladies.

R521...

A. Why are you mocking me when you're the one who came up with "poocunt" and I said it was the best post in this thread?

B. "—ever fucked a tranny? if not, you have no idea" What the fuck does this have to do with the points I was making?

Can't any of you read?

And admit it, based on your post at R263 - you will be happy when he kills himself, correct? Just admit it.

Begone multiple device/browser using tranny shill troll. Dear god you are tedious.

There are a lot of diverse opinions about trans people in this thread but the fact is that trans people exist and have been part of human history for a long time. Perhaps they did not always have the opportunity to surgically alter their genitals but the longing in their hearts and minds is real to them.

As for Jazz, she's on a difficult journey. The surgery and it's follow up procedures sound awful. Not something I'd care to do. It's unfortunate that trans political activism is negatively affecting other communities but allies to the gay community hopefully see the differences while bigots will always refuse to and will be beyond reach unless it touches their lives in a way that engenders understanding.

Speculating about Jazz's future sex life and mental health is just that, speculation. Who knows at this point whether she'll feel pleasure or not in later years. I imagine she'll find ways to give and receive pleasure, just not in the typical ways of gay men or anyone else except perhaps trans.

My main point is the assumption expressed by some is that she'll never find love. I'm an older person who has seen quite a bit including witnessing really unusual, even strange, people who have indeed found love. So while the predictions for misery are not unfounded, there is also the possibility she may some day find happiness.

[R525]

Yes, trans people have existed since the dawn of time.

So have rapists, pedophiles, and psychos.

The problem for real trans, and women and children is that the rapists, psychos and pedophiles are putting on dresses to commit their crimes.

And they're taking advantage of the rights gays and lesbians fought for to get access to their victims.

Sorry, R525, and genuinely sorry for Jazz, who, when hypnotized, thought he was the gay man that he is.

But, according to a (sympathetic) study released last year, only 87.5 of the population would consider dating a transgender, and around 98% of heterosexual males and females, would not consider dating a transgender at all.

As this study noted, trans”men” fared better than trans”women” so Jazz might be out of luck in the romance stakes. And for that I am genuinely very, very sorry.

[quote] Across a sample of heterosexual, lesbian, gay, bisexual, queer, and trans individuals, 87.5% indicated that they would not consider dating a trans person, with cisgender heterosexual men and women being most likely to exclude trans persons from their potential dating pool. Individuals identifying as bisexual, queer, trans, or non-binary were most likely to indicate a willingness to date a trans person. However, even among those willing to date trans persons, a pattern of masculine privileging and transfeminine exclusion appeared, such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans/home/spr J S P R man but not a trans woman).

I think the idea that trans people have existed since the dawn of time is not true. Gender dysphoria is pretty much about gender roles and subjective ideas of being the other sex. But our species is very old and and gender roles did not exist when we were primitive hunter and gatherers

R528

You're forgetting "Shamans". There have been articles about tribal existence and the role of homosexuals/transsexuals as Shamans and Healers. Being different wasn't a negative in all ancient cultures.

Yes they did R528. Men hunted and gathered while women cared for babies and gathered nearer to home, among other close-to-home tasks.

What is the size of the trans population R527? 12.5%? Is it even that high? Then that's all the need to find a partner.

R526, you said "The problem for real trans, and women and children is that the rapists, psychos and pedophiles are putting on dresses to commit their crimes." That's interesting and is surely possible, as humans do such terrible things. The fact is that most rapists, psychos and pedophiles are not wearing dresses while they commit their crimes. Those crimes must be addressed no matter what clothing the perpetrators wear.

The T propaganda likes to rebrand anyone gay, androgynous, intersex since the beginning of time as trans. They weren't. Even some transsexuals want nothing to do with the current trans bullshit.

"Transgender" Inc is a social contagion, a Pharma inc marketing brand,a political push against gay rights/existence + women's rights, major medical malpractice, child abuse, and a cult.

The fact is r530 men having free access to previously female-only spaces aids and abets in their criminal and violent behavior.

Disingenuous argument, R530, as most Trans Activist arguments are.

Previously, anyone who appeared to be a man could be legally ejected from a space where females were naked, partially-naked or otherwise vulnerable.

The crime was stopped before it happened.

Now, women have no recourse when a naked man appears in a space where they themselves are naked or otherwise vulnerable. They have to wait for a crime to be committed to access legal relief.

Palm Springs Swim Center, December 2018. young female water polo players confronted by a naked man in the locker room, who, under California law, had the "right" to be there.

R532

That is absolutely correct. Plus, the rapists, etc put on the dresses to get themselves put into the female side of prisons.

In the South Seas and India, and probably elsewhere, trans people are called the Third Sex. Some may think trans is new but in many cultures it's just been hidden. People are still killed for being gay or trans in some parts of the world. In some Middle Eastern literature men are described as dressing as women and living mostly hidden in their very homophobic cultures. It's still a danger in many places to reveal a sexual orientation that is outside of traditional male/female roles.

R536 cross dressing is not a sexual orientation.

Transgender "woman" sexually assaults 10-year-old girl in women's toilet.

[quote] Dolatowski, 18, sexually assaulted the girl in the toilets of Morrisons, Kirkcaldy.

She grabbed the terrified youngster by the face, shoved her into the cubicle and ordered her to remove her trousers.

But instead of being jailed at Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court, Dolatowski, who identifies as a woman but was believed by her victim’s family to be a man, was given community payback and tagging orders.

R533, I am not a trans activist and am not trans. I just don't like to make generalizations about individuals or even groups.

Rapists and their ilk need to be dealt with legally no matter what their sexual orientation or clothing they wear. In my opinion a naked man does not belong in a woman's locker room anymore than a naked woman belongs in a man's locker room. Where I live men are not allowed in women's facilities unless facilities are labeled for all sexes. Even then, for the most part, only one person is allowed in at a time.

I did attend an event in a large city where a multi-stalled restroom was open for access to all sexes. I used it but was not comfortable. If the population served by such facilities don't like it they should complain to management and boycott the facility. In the end, it's the safety of patrons that matters. A business that doesn't support that puts itself at risk to crime and lawsuits.

I once worked at a public agency where there were three types of bathrooms. Male, female and "family" for anyone and everyone. Once the lock on the family bathroom failed while two young girls were inside. A man walked in and startled the girls, raising such a torrent of outrage from the girls' parents that bathroom management was greatly improved and all locks inspected. It was a big deal to management and quite a political pickle for some time.

Oops, Comment by R530 ^

R519 is fucking hilarious.

Love how he says T critics fail logic!

Yet we are not the ones saying that it’s possible to change sex!

GUESS WHAT, R519: SEX IS IMMUTABLE.

That means that anyone born male will die male. ITS IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TRANS.

Trans is a “logical” as unicorns. Only the deluded believe it’s possible to change sex. The deluded are not logical.

Hahahahaha

The rest of your BS is pure projection.

Shamans did not exist 200.000 years ago. Our species is much older but human civilizations started very recently, about 6000 years ago. And those shamans were simply transvesites, crossdressers. Their ambiguity was influenced by gender roles and sexual fetishes R529

I know it is a bit early, but this thread tends to have surges, so I went ahead and created a part two of sorts. Jazz Jennings: Complications and Implications.

Link below.

You know, the thing about this is Jazz, down here, is surrounded (submerged) in the gay politics community--both she and her family. She is treated like a celebrity by a VERY SMALL envelope of people. (There was a "Meet Jazz" even last Friday that was very poorly attended.)

The interesting thing is what happens when the fame from her show fades away.

R541 they've found carved tools and things from 200,000 years ago now

Thanks r542, but I think the reason this thread has survived as long as it has is bc it doesn't mention JJs name in the title.

Well, we'll find out. Can always start a new thread without the name if Muriel isn't happy and zaps it.

Preach R526!

When have power structures of societies globally ever elevated the needs of 1% over the rest of the population and allowed the 1% to prey with impunity on everyone else? Oh wait, that does seem familiar.

The T are merely the handmaidens/Trojan horse to roll back rights gained by women, gay/lesbians and children.

We modern humans are an old species. Most of our walking the Earth has been without building civilizations, no agriculture, etc.. No gender roles/stereotypes subjugating and arbitrarily defining men ad women in those days; just people working together to survive. R544

The Jazz story has become less appealing - the narrative was that Jazz being called a girl and living as a girl would somehow set him free - not replace all other elements of teen life - school then college, friends, romance, a pt job, etc. There is also something horrifyingly brutal about castration and a wound that needs to be dilated for hours per day for years so as to not heal closed. It is far from a preschooler in a tutu and rife with pain and mental illness. When the attention is fading, the surgery euphoria should carry Jazz for a bit longer. Then, some way through life will have to be found.

Some kind of intensive work on social skills and socially appropriate behavior could pay dividends in having friends at least. Jazz is very immature and self centered due to the family dynamic and the lack of brain development caused by the Lupron. Leaving school and not having friends has retarded normal social development and practice. That needs to be addressed. I would not be surprised if that life force/energy we all had as teens being kind of subsumed in the family cause is not a driver of some of the mental health issues. Work on empathy, flexibility, coping and interpersonal skills in a group could be life changing and outlets away from the family and the cause are desperately needed.

R523 I have zero need for your reviews or approval of my posts here.

And I do not require Jazz to commit sideways, but research has shown that suicide rates go up after transition, based on Swedish research.

FTM detransition, MTF suicide out, but as only 10% of MTF actually have any penis surgery, it is a smaller percentage than including all of them, as the majority have obviously used google image search and seen the disastrous results of making tummycunts

So, r511, are males referred to as "non- uterus holders"?

Medicine Net. part of WEB MD, changed its definition of female to this, while leaving its definition of male as "The sex that produces spermatozoa."

[quote] Female: The traditional definition of female was "an individual of the sex that bears young" or "that produces ova or eggs". However, things are not so simple today. Female can be defined by physical appearance, by chromosome constitution (see Female chromosome complement), or by gender identification.

That says it all, R552.

[quote]You're forgetting "Shamans". There have been articles about tribal existence and the role of homosexuals/transsexuals as Shamans and Healers. Being different wasn't a negative in all ancient cultures.

This is (as usual) a typical western misunderstanding of indigenous cultures. I know people like to ascribe a certain amount of awe and mysticism to these people, but even still they were under no illusions with regard to female=those that carry children while male=those that cannot. That homosexual men or men with “effeminate” traits were sometimes grouped socially with women, or were partnered to other men (usually in a polyamorous situation) does not mean they were regarded as female, but rather a different kind of male.

That's co-opting of the two-spirit narrative, R554, just as T does to the intersex narrative.

Two-spirits is not real. It is just feelings and adopting mannerisms and roles of the other sex. They remain biologically male or female R555

Two-spirit is a real tradition, r556, but it’s been thoroughly misinterpreted by many people. A two-spirit woman spoke at Meghan Murphy’s Vancouver library talk last month. She was under no illusions of her or anyone else’s biological sex.

Two-spirit is not biological reality; it is purely psychlogical and/or societal. R557

Well no shit r558. It’s cultural. But as a tradition it exists. Again, it’s been so wildly misinterpreted by trans activists trying to sustain their “but we’ve always been hereeeeee” historical narrative that some people dismiss it outright.

Psycholgical, societal, cultural; two-spirit remains unscientific with no biological base. They were either men or women; the rest was nothing but pure mysticism. R559

r548, "humans" are an old species, but human-neanderthal hybrids have only been around about twice as long as everything we regard as "civilization".

Civilization itself emerged almost EXACTLY in the area where humans & neanderthals first encountered each other.

Consider for a moment that literally the only humans left on earth with zero neanderthal dna are a small subset of sub-Saharan central Africans... the ones who, until EXTRAORDINARILY recently, lived in mud huts as hunter-gatherers & had basically ZERO technology.

Coincidence? I think not.

Neanderthals were a hot mess... bipolar, autism spectrum, paranoid, the works. Pre-hybrid humans spent a million years doing little more than hunting with spears & scavenging berries. Black humans got busy with blonde neanderthals, and their hybrid kids went on to literally conquer the world. The crazy, reckless neanderthals were the spark that got humanity out of its fearful, conservative, traditional rut and unleashed things like farming, cities, technology, and progress.

The entire course of recorded human history has been an endless tug-of-war between the mad-scientist descendants of the neanderthals & the stick-in-the-mud descendants of early humans.

Neanderthals weren't some primitive, alien race. They were the first white people. Crazy, dysfunctional white people... but they're our ancestors, and their kinky fireside fucking 25,000 years ago is the reason why we now have things like modern medicine, electricity, and an internet full of cat videos & pr0n.

Anyway... back to our original topic ;-)

°¿°?

A trans vagina needs constant dilatation stimulus or it will close?

Yes r563. Lifelong commitment.

R549 The problem is that Jazz can't have meaningful friendships with regular straight girls and boys, because they can't possibly relate to her struggles. That leaves fellow trans and their enablers, and having friends like that will only exacerbate the brainwashing.

Well, maybe she could have situationally focused casual friendships based on school or an interest besides T or a PT job. Exposure to the world outside her bubble could do her a lot of good. She needs coaching and training though, burping, farting and taking about her pussy are things she needs to move beyond and she needs to learn to express an interest in others.

R566 does she have any interests outside of trans issues? Sports, books, movies, music, etc? You can't get many friends based on shallow interests like make-up.

As for a PT job, what skills does she have? She's used to being a TV star, I doubt she'd want to stock shelves at Walmart.

I still can't get over the fact how the whole family expects the older sister to produce a baby for Jazz. It must be nice to have your own baby incubator in the family.

R561 they recently announced something about how the human brain didn't develop higher reasoning etc. until some sort of virus mutation changed its structure. It wasn't just Neanderthal DNA with wanderlust and early human DNA combining; the actual brain power wasn't there until the mutations. Most humans nowdays have 2% or less Neanderthal DNA.

Is there a shortage of actual women with real pussies?

The only advantage Jazz had was his "girl cock." There are tons of losers who want a Disney princess with a dick.

Jazz's cock was tiny because his fucking parents but him on hormones at such a young age ... But, at least it worked!

Remember that time when Jazz woke up complaining about a boner? Too bad there will be no more erections, or orgasms, for Jazz.

Is there any chance this Jazz person may suffer from some degree of autism/asperger which is very common among children who develop gender dysphoria at a young age.

r571 I think Jazz is a bit fucked up from being put on puberty blockers-and god knows what else-at such a young age. Hormones are essential for mental development. Jazz is certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed. However, no one in that family seems particularly intelligent, so perhaps it is a combination.

I think the sister will stay away from the family as much as possible. The brothers will have to work for dad--they are kinda cute, but, between them, they barely seem to make it into double digits for IQ. And the one brother seems very weird about his twin having a girlfriend.

R572 R573 I wonder if stupidity is the commonality between families who totally embrace the trans narrative for their children and refuse to even look at other treatments and diagnosis for body disphoria. As the whole trans narrative is so very illogical and research has shown chopping off cocks etc does not help the mental issues these people have, , maybe being stupid is what is needed to embrace this insanity

,,,?

I wonder if there will actually be an awakening in 25 years - ie lawsuits, uprising, adults pissed they were experimented on as children. If many transitioned commit suicide (which will be attributed to society still not accepting them, not something bigger) and those who don’t commit suicide are bullied into silence, how can anything happen.

The narrative that all their problems are because of our “bigoted society” is so ingrained now that I think anyone trying to expose this will be hushed down as someone only feeling that way because “normal” hateful society didn’t do enough to accept them.

If there isn't an awakening, then there will be no homosexuality, society will be a barbaric society that allows everything involved in this, and will be a society where the truth cannot be spoken, by law.

They won't be an Awakening now that both Oliver Sachs and Robin Williams are dead.

I have wondered the same, R571, the socially inappropriate behavior, the inability to form peer relationships, some sensory issues all make one wonder.

I wonder what she does all day?

I stopped watching this show years ago. Last time I saw it, Jazz went to regular school and had friends (that were all girls). What happened? Was she too narcissistic for them?

WW for R578!

Jazz seems like a spoiled Jewish girl, in my opinion. I don’t watch the show, but I’ve seen bits and pieces and she does a little promo thing on TLC. She looks and sounds like most of the girls at my daughter’s Upper East Side school (or when I was at school, for that matter.) She seems very familiar to me.

Hopefully she’ll make a productive life for herself, and find some happiness. I’m not optimistic.

Jazz's mom is about 20 years to old for those cold shoulder shirts.

It's criminal.

Drop The T in LGBT

I wonder if it would be possible aka would the HRC, GLAAD, etc. be willing to change the alphabet soup to LGBQ. It takes the T out of the equation, and lumps anyone who isn't LGB into their own category. They can change it from Queer to Questioning. But I strongly agree the T has to go. Sadly, it likely won't.

She got it wrong when basically stating it is the brain from where gender dysphria comes when in reality their brains have no issues. Gender dysphoria is a psychological issue; it is in the mind; not the brain.

Body dysphoria is such a joke. Muriel has deleted two threads about Amy Miller's anorexia over it.

[quote]Drop The T in LGBT

What about the other 15 letters that follow?

Most of us just pretend those don't exist. I'd like to cunt/nad punch the asshole(s) who came up with those other letters. I know this is getting tedious to hear, but this sort of shit is why people hate us.

Just go back to Gay. It covers men and women who are same sex attracted. Anything else isn’t necessary, we’re not just the serve that catches every fetish, mental illness and attention seeking antics.

The demisexual discrimination on this site is getting out of hand!

Talk about self created problems!

This family has no boundaries.

Useless surgeons, useless parents, useless child protection services.

Surely even the most hardcore SJWs must be starting to doubt the wisdom of giving "trans" children surgery after reading Jazz's most recent tweets?

R596 it will take at least 5 years and many more cases before the reality sets in.

Just say gay.

[quote] Even though my vagina falling apart was the hardest thing I ever experienced, I knew that one day I would be fully healed & recovered.

Which one of you melodramatic bitches is ghostwriting Jazz's tweets? 🤣 I'm surprised he didn't say his vagina wasn't "torn asunder."

Someone made a second thread with Jazz name on it, that won't last. The censure is getting ridiculous. It's 2019 for fuck sake.