Yuzuru Hanyu and other figure skating talk part 19

Link to previous thread.

Details about Kolyada's illness. Poor guy.

After his performances, especially after the free skating, Kolyada almost collapsed. He made only one serious mistake in the long when he fell on a triple Lutz.

“There, to be honest, my conscience was starting to fade away,” recalled the 23-year-old. “I don’t even remember a lot how all that happened. That is, I did the footwork and half of it I just can’t remember now. And the spins, of course. When I am spinning, it all starts to flow in, hurts. Not a nice feeling and the breathing gets out of rhythm, naturally. And when the breathing is off, the rhythm of the program is off and it is hard to get back into it.”

“I never have felt as bad as I did (after the program),” said Kolyada. “Who came to me, said something, I don’t remember that at all. We went to TV, they did an interview, I don’t even remember what I said. I was in such a condition that I couldn’t even focus, my vision was blurry. And then, when they took me to the anti-doping control, I saw stars, spots … The doctors said that it comes from a major lack of oxygen, hypoxia.”

r2 Sounds like a real nightmare.

I really hope everybody gets over their health conditions by Worlds. Right now out of the 5 podium contenders only 2 remain unscathed. It'd be sad if the winners got their win just due to their opponents physically not being able to skate well.

Hippy noob yeet from Zhou & Co.!

In response to the Medo stuff at the end of the last thread - Everything Med has done since going back to Russia has been PR. She made a big stink about staying off of evil social media after Grenoble and had opened a private instagram account. Then she goes back to Russia, makes a big deal about being back on social media , and after bombing at Nats, it's all about her and the Bulgarian boy who share the same agent. Guess if her skating can't keep her relevant, she has to go in a different direction.

Would you let this person be your hairdresser? (and he needs Yuzuru to iron his shirt)

R6 I still can't believe Orser sacrificed Gogolev for her. WTF was he thinking? He must have let his emotions get the better of him but WTF was Tracy Wilson thinking to not stop him?

Gogo’s team seems too needy too early. If they want to be the center of their coach’s attention, they need to leave TCC. That’s never gonna happen with Yuzuru and Med there. These are Olympic and world champions. I see a coaching pattern similar to PChiddy for Gogo. Things not going your way, blame coach and switch.

R7 I like the simpler look

Russians and Japanese skaters have ruined this sport. Boring.

I miss Tanya Harding

I miss Brian Boitano.

Shingo Nishiyama will still continue skating singles while trying his hand at ice dance.

Kozuka got some pointers from Ge or Medvedeva via Ge. He was wearing the Irene gloves on “Tatakae Sports Naikaku”!

(No, the Sendai rink is not a sponsor of the Kansai show and no, he wasn’t wearing the Irene gloves when he was with Ge and he usually wears Under Armour or Nike if he wears gloves at all.)

Kozuka was mainly on the show to praise and demonstrate the difficulty of Hanyu’s PyeongChang SP spread eagle-4S-spread eagle or 3S in Kozuka’s case. It’s 15:55-29:30 in part 2.

Kanako Murakami talked about Kihira from 11:25 in Part 1 and there’s some footage of little Kihira and little Murakami. The show will have a long interview with Kihira herself in a couple of weeks. Murakami just said Kihira has a strong core and is a well-rounded skater. She also mentioned that top skaters usually take about 5 staff members (coaches, parent, trainer, nutritionist) with them to international competitions. There were some brief clips of Mao and Takahashi at the Vancouver Olympics.

I'm about to watch the Fuji New Years special where Weir and Meier competed against Ando and Kozuka if I can stay awake.

[quote]Russians and Japanese skaters have ruined this sport. Boring.

Is it the fault of Russia and Japan that American skaters suck so badly?

Casting call for the new Netflix "ice" skating series - maybe Med can try out for the part of the aging ingenue whose world falls apart when she finds her Bulgarian twink boyfriend getting his salad tossed while wearing nothing but her pink leg slimming stockings

"Kozuka got some pointers from Ge or Medvedeva via Ge. He was wearing the Irene gloves on “Tatakae Sports Naikaku”!"

Soon there will be 126 million Yuzurenais in Japan.

I hope Med team's PR game will come back to bite her in the ass some day. Besides Plushenko whose SNS posts are all for PR, Med team is the team that likes PR game the most and has dragged many people into their game. Every famous athletes need some PR moves. But as an athlete, they need to prioritize training and competing over anything else and not to use media/SNS to crave attention. I agree, if her skating can't keep Med relevant, she will go in a different direction, something similar to what Elizaveta Tuktamysheva has been doing, being active on SNS, isn't a bad idea. Some posts about Kpop, anime,...might keep her relevant enough.

Weir has been cast in that Netflix series

"Weir plays Gabe, who seems like an easygoing guy — but under his funny, laidback exterior, he’s a cutthroat competitor who will stop at nothing to beat Kat and Justin."

r9 Gogolev acts like the least neediest skater at TCC. Even if his parents are overbearing, they weren’t terrible enough to be an issue for Orser for 7 years, and most parents would rethink the coaching situation if their kid’s coach acted the way Orser did with Gogolev this season in the K&C.

Gogolev has great potential to become Canada’s national champion and an Olympic team member. Medvedeva doesn’t have those same prospects and if you remember, Orser just brought in another Russian skater (representing Poland) despite being completely stretched this season. Why not go back to the main coach (Lee) at least until Orser figures out how to manage his time?

Also, Orser indicated it wasn’t just one skater/team who was dissatisfied with his behavior this season. In recent interviews, he also said he doesn’t spend much time coaching Hanyu and even after Hanyu’s injury leading up to the Olympics, the skater and his Japanese team (with Ghislain) took care of everything, which he said is also happening right now.

And this is all coming from Orser's own mouth. We haven't even heard from the other sides(s) yet.

Here you go R11. Hope it keeps you entertained while you get ready to go to the Bette Davis picture show at the dollar theatre with your beau this afternoon.

R20 I agree. Gogo doesn't seem needy at all. Orser was probably expecting another Hanyu when he took on Med and instead got a teenage Russian diva who needs midnight therapy sessions.

[quote]Kozuka (...) was wearing the Irene gloves on “Tatakae Sports Naikaku”!

I didn't expect this development. Waiting for bracelets.

r16 r19. Is that the series with the dumb premise of an injured singles skater who switches to Pairs and gets paired up with a badboy partner? Meh. If Johnny plays an antagonist, rooting for his character is going to be pointless because the dumb-sounding main characters are gonna to win eventually anyway.

R23 yup, that one

I'm looking forward to the real life references the writers of that series throw in in the most shallow way possible, to show how much they know about the sport.

[Actor's stunt double does a mediocre 3T] "Damn, who do you think you are, 2018 World Champion Nathan Chen a.k.a. the Jump King?"

"Kat, stop sitting around gossiping with your Asian best friend and go work on your quad Axel! I wanna see it clean by the end of the day!"

"But Marcus...you ruptured your spleen doing that quad Sal-quad flip combo..." "You think I give a crap?" [ripping out IV line and stumbling out of hospital bed] "I have to skate the free tomorrow. I know I can come back from fifteenth place and take it. If Yuzuru Hanyu won the Olympics on a broken leg, I can win regionals on a ruptured spleen."

R23 I still don't get the premise of that show (and similar ones). So, you're a female singles skater, suffer a career ending injury........ and you decide on pairs?! Pairs seem much more scary, for the ladies, than singles, and you still have to jump. I understand ice dance, but not pairs.

r26 Yeah, I'm not expecting much from this series if this is their understanding of the sport.

R22 Orser wasn't thinking clearly if he expected Med to be another Hanyu or if he thought Med could win Worlds this year--or any year going forward given how competitive the Russian ladies are likely to be next season. One thing I've always wondered about Brian is how he would handle not being considered the world's top coach once Yuzu retired. I'm starting to think the answer is "not well."

Marcus on his phone checking Grind profiles: "shut up, I don't care if I have the FS in 2 hours, I am chatting up this blonde muscle guy"

R29 Is Sondre a consultant for the show?

Gogo and Brian situation is all speculation. No one seems to know what really happened except Gogo team somewhat unexpectedly dropped Brian as head coach. I think those who actually like Brian feel he got slighted and those who like Gogo feel he wasn’t treated right. Sounds like splitting up is better. It may end up being better for both of them. Brian May have opened up a spot for another potential gold medalist or he can focus on Jun who is a contender for 2022 as well.

R30 Mediterranean mui calientes men like me are much more in demand than twinks.

R28 skater’s innate potential is certainly important but Brian has had success with multiple skaters and not just Hanyu, including Yuna, Javi, Gabby ( before break), now Jun. honestly from beginning to end, Javi was probably the biggest success story and a testament to this coaching.

Instead of trying to sell ugly tshirts, the Shibs should try for that Netflix series. Mirai too since her Dancing with the stars casting led to nothing. Both remind me so much of each other because they tried so hard to get that relevance after Olympics.

Happy New Year! Bless the owner of this magnificent ass!

I find it hilarious that the Shibs are selling homespun t-shirts. I do the same thing to make a few extra $$$ (I get around $50 a year from it), so I can't really fault them. But I'm not famous, let alone a 2x Olympic medalist.

Miari at least seems to be having some success in the skating community, promoting nationals and touring. Does the USFSA not think the Shibs will bring in fans? If that's the case, that's kind of sad for them.

There’s no video of the Fujiyama special to link to right now, but Ando & Kozuka and Weir & Meier competed against each other in spins, jumps, and technique. For jumps, it was Kozuka vs. Meier in who could spin the longest, with up to five kicks allowed. Kozuka won (because he cheated, in my opinion). Then Ando vs. Weir for who could do the most jumps in 1 minute. Weir won. Finally, they had a relay course which Ando & Kozuka won. Sadly, there was little interaction between the TV host and Kozuka, although they were forced to sit next to each other.

r31 Well, now you say that after calling Gogolev needy and likening him to Patrick Chan for the second time. Orser was the one who said he spent most of his time with Medvedeva and didn’t balance his time with the other skaters, which caused the rifts. He never claimed he was slighted or that Gogolev and the others were wrong to feel they were being treated unfairly. (He also called Med a “great skater,” but Gogolev a “really great skater” in the same sentence.) So if you like him, why wouldn’t you believe what he said?

That should make a Shibs fragrance, sibling love- that’s where the money is.

R37 Yeah, its called being an adult and listening to other peoples’s viewpoints.

Also, if you listen to Brian, he said he was “surprised” meaning there may not not have been much discussion with Gogo team before the split-after 7 years-have some respect. The way it was done caused a lot of speculation and made Brian seem disposable. Obviously people let their biases lead to how they interpret someone’s words so we can interpret BOrser’s interview differently. You say he said he wasn’t slighted, fine, being dumped publicly by your student’s team after 7 years -surprisingly without much warning- must have made him want to celebrate.

I wonder if the fact that Brian is simply getting on in years has soething to do with the situation. Maybe he isn't capable of devoting so much attention to that many students anymore. Or maybe be's not inclined to anymore. There was an interview about two years ago where he said he might be retiring after Beijing because coaching and personal engagement was so emotionally draining that didn't know how long he could continue.

R40 I also recall interviews with Brian where it sounded like he was planning to take it easier after this year's Olympics and just focus on his current younger kids and preparing them for 2022. So I was very surprised when he suddenly was going to coach Jin and Med too. Oh, and Jason Brown also.

R39 Orser wasn’t dumped publicly. The public didn’t find out about the coaching change until Gogolev’s ISU bio was updated in December because his team didn’t issue a statement and kept quiet (which was also a courtesy to Medvedeva and Orser if you consider the timing.) However, Orser was already talking about losing Gogolev to Insider Skating when they interviewed him in Rostelecom, in November. He was fired long before the public found out. This is fact, not bias or speculation.

R41 And now there's Kurakova, plus the Chinese team, though it's unclear how often he's expected to visit Beijing.

January 1 interview with Tursy's mom:

TursyMom: ...There were instances when Elizabet reminisce and say to me: we should have stayed with the previous coach. Tutberdize had a better inside for what each pupil needs. And here (in Canada) we had to learn English, adapt to each other, and five years just went by.

RVD: Brian Orser – what is he like?

TursyMom: Orser – he is cheerful, open (easy going), but extremely busy. He has many students, he travels all over the world. (He) spends quite a lot of time on ice shows. Our mistake in choosing Orser was our misconception that he will be with us 24/7 (that we will be under his management through out the day). But instead we had to work pretty much all on our own.

RVD: So there is a difference in the systems – “old soviet” vs. “western”?

TursyMom:

TursyMom: Over there (in the west) you’re left to your own devices, a lot you have to decide on your own, all the way to selecting your own programmes. But when you make a mistake, it is your mistake. Orser, pretty much, gives a 20 minute lesson, and he is responsible for these 20 minutes….

RVD: After Orser, will there be changes from Tutberidze in your daughter’s (training/technique)?

TursyMom: Of course, it is standard practice, yet technique from Tutberidze was not affected (saved) under Orser. We begged Eteri (to take us) for a long time, conducted negotiations. Eteri Georgievna, when she works, she puts her soul into it, and is not held back by formalities, perhaps that is why she has such results. She is a well organized (disciplined) coach with a great team – coach Dudakov, choreographer Gleikh.

RVD: Has Tatiana Tarasova, the honored coach of USSR, made any comments about Elizabet?

TursyMom: She (TAT) thinks that Elizabet could do well in pairs, because of her built, but I am not getting involved in my daughter’s business, she is now 18….

More of interview at link:

R43 This says more about what Med expects than what happened with Gogo team,since BOrser trained Javi and Hanyu and Jun and others without any of these complaints at the same time.

R42 Brian coaches Hanyu, of course the public would find out even without an announcement. The ISU page change is done publicly. The fact that we are even taking about this shows the Skating public was made aware. And the “timing”, doesn’t change the fact there is “speculation” since Brian was surprised and the degree of discussion if at all happened or not is not clear since Gogo camp is not making a statement-which is fine- but then they can’t complain if people/fans “speculate”.

R44, wasn’t the public made aware of gogolev’s coaching switch mostly due to TSL leaking this in November? And their source is none other than Doug Haw aka Orser’s buddy the TCC PR rep exclusively for TSL. Although, sometimes I do feel Haw gets a bit wild and might have said a bit more than what he’s asked to do.

Gogo should go to Arutyunyan. I hear he has more time now.

Lolll, ofc we won't hear Cha, Hanyu's team complain until they change coach or something even if Orser doesn't spend enough time with them. We wouldn't have known about that if Gogolev or Elizabeth hadn't left him. Did you hear any Eteri's girls complain about her team or simply talk about their experience working with her until they left ? Ghislain being listed as one of Hanyu's coaches since this season might say something.

R44 OK, I’ll be clearer this time. You said Orser was dumped publicly. He wasn’t.

I'm sure the Russian trolls and press would have appreciated it if Gogolev's team hadn't been so quiet and announced Orser's firing while Medvedeva was still competing in the GP.

R45 TSL did say Gogolev was no longer Orser’s student in the GP France recap, but they didn’t explicitly say he was officially fired as coach and many people still won't believe anything that comes from TSL (including some here), which may be why it didn't get much attention outside DL. Good point about the TCC contact being Doug Haw who Orser has been using to leak information.

R48 let me be more clear. “Firing” your coach after 7 years the way they did was a dick move. You need to Google the definition of “publicly”. If they had more tact, they should have talked to Brian and if they had any PR experience and sense of respect and maturity would have made it more of a mutual decision. The reason they didn’t is speculated as bitterness. Obviously we agree BOrser was fired, the way it was done is the sticking point. By the way, I’m not a huge Brian fan but a skating fan and when coaches get disrespected the skaters come off as egotistical or have overbearing parents...not a good pic either way.

So Tursynbaeva must be incredibly needy since she has to have someone holding her hand all the time and couldn't hack it at TCC. Right?

Every skaters who leave Brian Orser are needy af, want to be coddled and to have every attention from coach Brian paid to them all the times. When they want to change coach, they need to dump him publicly and thank him for having cared them even if they're just a junior, a unknown skater and don't give a fuck about PR game. If they don't do that, it's lack of maturity and respect. In more famous skaters case like Yuzuru Hanyu, Jun Hwan Cha, Javier Fernandez,... they need to hire 200000 journalists to write about their coach change as the way to express their gratitude towards coach Orser.

R43 Thanks for that. This is interesting because Brian called the split with Tursy amicable and that both sides agreed she was better off elsewhere. I can see how both sides are speaking a version of the truth here. I don't blame Tursy's mom for sounding bitter actually - they moved to another country, learned the language, stayed for almost 5 years, during which time her daughter's career stagnated, and now she's basically over the hill. I'm not convinced she would have done any better with Eteri though. Tursy should consider pairs.

As for Gogo, it's his right to change if he doesn't think Brian is working out. Neither he nor his parents have said a word about the change. Brian is the one who drew attention to it (first with Doug leaking to TSL and then in interviews). When it first happened I thought it was kind of abrupt to dump Brian just because of Med. But if Gogo needed Brian and Brian just wasn't there, I think it's understandable. The interview with Tursy's mom really made clear (to me at least), just how divided Brian's attention already was, even pre-Med.

Brian doesn't seem to be the ideal coach for people with hovering parents who don't have their own support system and who expect Brian to closely manage their careers.

R49 We don't know why or how Gogo/parents fired Orser. Are you contending that the firing itself is a "dick move"? You can't fire a coach you're unhappy with? Why does it have to be a "mutual decision"? They could have fired him in the nicest, most polite way possible and I'm sure Brian would have still been hurt. In any case, it's their right to fire him if things weren't working out.

R53 so dense... how he was fired— PUBLICLY— was a dick move after 7 years of coaching him. Obviously he can fire anyone he wants. You need to have a sense of empathy to understand, I guess.

R54 The only thing Gogo did was change his ISU bio. The only reason we noticed the change (on DL at least) was because of TSL (which likely got the tip from Doug). After that, the only person who has publicly confirmed that the split was a firing was Brian. You're getting awfully butt hurt about all of this after calling for equanimity on both sides.

You called out the equanimity with passive aggressive statements. I called peace with my statement. You can’t seem to stop butt hurting yourself. Spade a spade. I’m at peace. Chill and keep hoping for your Gogo gold.

R56 What are you talking about? I responded to you at R53 and R55. There's nothing passive aggressive about what I said - I am very directly saying that I don't agree with you and that you are contradicting yourself. I have very little interest in Gogo as a skater.

This started with R37 responding to R31. if that wasn’t you, you shouldn’t have butted in with butt hurt comments.

R48 [quote]You need to Google the definition of “publicly”.

Thanks for the laugh.

To fire someone publicly is to fire someone [bold]in public[/bold]. If Orser was “dumped publicly” as you said, that would mean that Gogolev’s team told [bold]the public[/bold] that they were firing Orser [bold]before[/bold] they had fired him privately. Gogolev’s team didn’t say a word, therefore Orser was not fired publicly. Orser told other people, such as Inside Skating, that Gogolev had left him [bold]before[/bold] it was made public, therefore Orser was [bold]fired privately.[/bold]

Gogolev stuck with Orser while he was coaching Fernandez and Hanyu through two stressful Olympics and he’s still at TCC. Orser never described the way he was fired. He never said anything about ego, disrespect, or bitterness. In fact, he still praised Gogolev (calling him a “really great skater,” while Med and Brown were just two “great skaters”) and lamented the loss in his recent interview.

Gogolev is not the first to leave Orser. Rippon left after a similarly tumultuous period during the Yuna breakup and bizarre behavior in the K&C. If you’re going to talk about public behavior, what about how Orser acted in Richmond?

R57 Well, I appreciated the butting it so thank you for taking one for the team.

R59 hahaha. U r welcome for the laugh. Publicly as in “so as to be seen by other people; in public (google).”- as in the ISU website- welcome to technology and the internet. Yes people have left Orser and maybe Gogo can be as successful as Rippon. Your team should thank you both for taking one for your team-whatever team that is.

R60 Holy shit I thought you said you made peace with yourself. You still sound rather insane.

Has anyone seen an English sub version of the recent documentary on Dai (I think it's called Rebirth or Restart)?

Dirt Czar, what is the running gag on Kenji's Room about Tamura showing up uninvited (it's mentioned in the shows with Dai, Hanyu and Satoko)? Is there some sort of bigger inside joke or are they just ribbing him?

R58 Fair enough. I think it's wise that you're putting a cap on the number of posters who can call you inane.

[quote] If you’re going to talk about public behavior, what about how Orser acted in Richmond?

like a nice cheerful man

R61 R63 I guess if you’re not clever enough to think of a response.... insane is a good a comeback as any. Good idea changing subject.

Javi should be back at TCC, any images or vids yet?

R60 You still don’t understand what it means to “publicly fire” someone and I’m only going to say this once: November comes [bold]before[/bold] December. I know reading comprehension isn’t your thing, but you’ve been informed several times now that Orser revealed his firing in November.

But wait, all of this time you thought Gogolev’s team disrespected Orser because the ISU bio was updated (in December) as it’s supposed to be when there’s a coaching change? That was unavoidable and likely happened when entry information for the JGPF was submitted. That update also saved Orser and the TCC team a lot of grief. There would’ve been much criticism and drama had the public not been informed when they saw that Orser wasn’t with Gogolev at the JGPF K&C despite being in the building.

So you’ve been blaming Gogolev’s team for something completely out their hands. Bye.

R62 Yeah, the joke is that he always shows up uninvited and says he just happened to be in the neighborhood or Miyahara wanted him there.

R66 eyeroll...I see redundancy is your thing...

I think you guys are getting trolled by Dai troll. R600 sounds and reads exactly like the gibberish we are used from him.

Skaters are different. Some do well in a situation like Orser's, where there are a lot of skaters, multiple coaches and assistants, and much of one's work is self directed. Others do better in an environment where there's fewer skaters and more one on one time with an individual coach. As a former skater, I don't see either as better or worse, it just comes down to temperament.

Next week

MENTOR TORUN CUP

Men field

Hayrapetyan SLAVIK ARM

Brendan KERRY AUS

Yakau ZENKO BLR

Petr KOTLARIK CZE

Valtter VIRTANEN FIN

Benjam POPP FIN

ADRIEN TESSON FRA

ADAM SIAO HIM FA FRA

JOSHUA ROLS FRA

Peter James HALLAM GBR

Graham NEWBERRY GBR

Gabriele FRANGIPANI ITA

Jari KESSLER ITA

CARRILLO DONOVAN MEX

Micah TANG TPE

Chih-I TSAO TPE

DEMİRBOĞA BURAK TUR

________________

EDUSPORT TROPHY

Men entries

Nicky Leo OBREYKOV Bulgaria

Aleksander ZLATKOV Bulgaria

Christopher CALUZA Philippines

Michael NEUMAN Slovakia

EduTrophy could have been a good fit for Dai

Entries at Europeans

Burak DEMIRBOGA over Basar OKTAR. I am outraged

Pairs field is, erm, sad

Javier is a big question mark at this point. It’ll be interesting to see what he can put together on 3 weeks.

36 entries for Men

38 Ladies

13 Pairs (all qualified for FS as the cut off is at 16)

25 Ice Dancers (cut off for Free Dance is 20)

r72 Wait, Raya is an alternate despite Spain having two spots? There's someone who's getting sent over him other Fernandez?

R75 Raya managed to lose Nationals to Hector Alsonso something

[R75] Raya is another casualty of an overextended Team Orser.

Because of Raya general uselessness last season they had to take to Olympics a male skater without the 3A (Montoya). But Montoya's coach trying to groping him after Raya's score was announced at Nationals is still one of the key moments of last season

Some vintage 2015 Yuzuru English, talking about his Habi, with a cute "gracias" on the end.

Skip to the 4:00 mark. Tursy's mom seemed happy enough at the K&C for Worlds 2017. Same during Olys 2018.

You have to skip to 5:11 to see the really mortifying stuff.

angel Yuzu

Thunder eyes and thunder thighs!

2019 GP Final has been apparently moved from France to Italy. It will be held in Turin

Why?

Didier blew his budget on the lit horse and fireworks at IdF

Sick of paper medals and disco podiums

Karen Chen out of Nationals

I loved the disco podium!

R88 So Mariah and a 13 year old battling it out for gold? Who is left?

I will be a two time consecutive national champ!

The odds are in my favor!!

God will side with me

Sorry, I only really follow ice dance.

He said he didn't believe it, but Dave Lease said there was a rumor that Ashley Wagner might be coming back to competitive skating. I don't suppose it would be for Nationals, but really, might as well, if she's in any kind of shape at all. Canada and the US are in a race to the bottom in ladies skating lol. Though I guess there's Bradie and Mariah (until a Russian or a Japanese or a Korea shows up)

Ashley Wagner could barely make it through Nationals last year. Skaters keep alive the idea that they will go back to competing at some point because their agents or managers tell them that they are more marketable that way.

I don't believe Ashley can come back successfully, but I have a feeling she has no idea what else she can do with herself. She is too narcissistic to be a coach long-term. I didn't hear her commentating, but I read that she, of course, made it all about her, and I can imagine how grating her upspeak would be to everyone but her rabid stans.

I forgot that Ashley was less than 3 points behind Karen Chen at Nationals last year - they sent her to Pyeongchang and she ended up in 11th place. Maybe they should have sent Ashley - she was a big "name" anyway.

r97 Does she have rabid stans?

R98 They probably would have been better off sending Ashley but they had no way of knowing that. Karen finished 4th at Worlds the previous year and Ashley had been going downhill since she won that silver medal at Boston Worlds in 2016.

I still don't understand what happened to Ashley after her Boston win. I think she broke up with a boyfriend and that may have affected her 2016-17 season. But I'm unclear as to why the Olympic season was such a mess for her. Deciding to keep an old SP, making a video of her new LP, then dumping that long program for her MR program, then doing a last minute dump of MR and going back to her new LP--which wasn't all that great to begin with. It's like she had no team in place to help her make these decisions. And maybe she didn't. I recall an interview where she said that she had a lot of trouble asking for help and so took on more than she could effectively handle.

That 4th place for Karen Chen at 2017 Worlds was a very very generous gift to USFSA

I read an old article on Dave Lease and he recounts this incident: “I had a skater at a bar flip out at me because I said I didn’t like her music edit,” Lease told me. He said she was screaming and crying, and “they had to pull her out of the bar.”

Has there been any consensus on who the skater was?

It’s the Japan Collegiate Figure Skating Championship, but the JSF forgot to update the results page, so you have to rely on the competition’s twitter for entries and scores. Tomono, Shu Nakamura, Honda brother, and Shoya Ichihashi (who usually competes in pairs) are there. For ladies, Mai Mihara. There’s 9 ice dance entries. No pairs…? @gakuren_figure

Uno is not having the best week. His brother tweeted them visiting a temple on New Years (hatsumode) and he was spotted at a shopping mall on the day he was to appear in the Italian ice show. I don’t think there would be much outcry had some his fans not accused another skater of exaggerating an injury, and criticized him for wearing sneakers at the Rostelecom medal ceremony and withdrawing from the gala.

And the Osaka version of 1/3 Sponichi devoted a full page Hanyu, Takahashi, and mostly full page to Kihira while Uno had a small photo alongside Sakamoto, Tanaka and Miyahara.

The TCC boys are back (is that Kagiyama?):

Damn, Yuzu is manners-handing Javi in the second one. What happened?

R104. I want to know what happened too! It is nice to see Hanyu. Seems like forever when we last saw him.

r104 Hopefully just a force of habit.

Do you think he's doing manner hands because of that asshole calling him gay? I hope that's not the reason.

r107 I doubt it. I don't think Yuzu is the type of person to give in to this type of presssure, otherwise he'd have abandoned his costiumology and Johnny Weir tributes.

R103 I think that kid is too tall to be Kagiyama. Also doesn't look like him.

R107 Hanyu's been dealing with those insults since the beginning of time. And still, he's a slutty pink sakura blossom this season, so he doesn't seem to care too much.

Who knows ? This time, it came from a famous comedian's mouth ( in such an insulting way) and on TV.

Not the first time he did it with a guy. But the first time it's that obvious with a guy.

Tomono 4S(!maybe?) 3F3T 3A (but messed up on CCoSp) Nakamura 3A 3Lo3T 3Lz Honda 3A 3T3T 3F Finally delivered a clean program. Ichihashi 3Lz(fall) 3T< 2A

JSF still hasn't updated the results page with any info. JACSIF doesn't have the officials, but does have the lunch menu. The official twitter hasn't tweeted since yesterday, so no scores yet. I think Tomono was the only one to do a quad.

Medvedeva is going to play herself in a Canadian film called "The Petrichor" (2019):

[quote]Maya is a former figure skater who, due to personal tragedy, fails her first two attempts at senior international competition. Inspired by her skating idol, Igor Rusky, she decides at the age of thirty, to get back on the ice and pursue her dream of competing once more. As she starts skating again, she is overcome with the painful memories of her past and develops a unique form of visualization, placing Igor Rusky into her old memories to replace pain with inspiration and giving her a chance to pursue her dreams.

r104 Maybe Fernandez had a sweaty back or Hanyu wanted to spare him feeling compelled to post another photo of himself tonguing his girlfriend to remind us he's not gay and that nothing's happened with Radford.

Update from Mirai:

One of Medvedeva's scenes in the movie, which was possibly filmed in October:

[quote] As a skater with Eastern origins, surgery was not something I could commit to quickly.

Can someone explain this to me? What do Eastern origins have anything to with it?

So basically she skated at the Olympics with a torn labrum a a fucked up hip? I guess the sacrifice paid off though.

R114 There's no resistance to getting surgery to fix or treat injuries in Japanese culture, so that also confused me.

Quick question R112, Is it still considered gay sex if my girlfriend is in the room watching and doing her knitting the whole time?

R116, it's not gay if it's a threeway, you're cool, bro

Can I be your girlfriend too, r116? I promise to learn to knit.

Former American skater, John Coughlin, who sits on ISU Single and Pairs Technical Committee and on ISU Athletes Commission, is under investigation by SafeSport.

No info about the accusations. He is restricted from making contact with the accusers but not suspended yet.

Thigh Master

R120. Thank you! He has a beautiful body. R110. Maybe he felt upset that the jerk said that on television. I wish we could know for sure what the reason for manner hands is.

He looks so good in his costume. I hope he does Origin again next season. I love him in this costume.

TSL Ice Shows/Predictions - 6 January - Part 1. TSL: Guest is Doug Haw. Until Minute 11 it was about controversy of John Coughlin - and something about Russian dodging of doping testing. I didn’t really understand all that too well. 11: Javi/Yuzu back, Gabby’s back skating, Med due back Mon or Tues. 22 Med. She looks so, so much better than last summer. Will Javi be ready? (Haw says yes, he's kept in practice though more time wd have been nice -- but Dave was doubtful because he probably hasn't been jumping much.) 40 About Prerotation like Uno (which Haw thought was no big deal). Dave also asked about full-blade assist instead of toe pick. Haw says so what – jumps should not be replayed to look for picky little flaws: sport shouldn't “analyze to paralyze”. He wants fewer cameras. 48 Med again – at the Italian ice show – Doug said she was better than he’d ever seen her and he sent video to Brian. 52 If Med wants to win, she’ll have to add quad sal (said Doug). 53 Alysa Liu was sent to watch GPF and will probably be hungry and go for wins – meaning getting quad(s). To win you have to be desperate to win and that means going for it, for ladies now - either 3As, quads, or both. 54 Rika is going to Colorado twice to work at altitude (and to keep working on her quad) – once with Satoko and once with Mia Hamada, both times before Worlds. 54.50 Eteri’s gamesmanship – after Med said she would work on a quad sal, Sambo showed video of Zags doing a quad flip in harness, and Trusova in same video did a quad flip (without harness) and landed it. Dave says Eteri put that video out there intentionally on Instagram. Doug says harness jumps mean absolutely nothing. 59 Doug holds court on jump technique details: triples and quads are the same height – it’s just a difference in speed of rotation. Leadup needs to be slower and more precise. (+ more jump tech details)

TSL Ice Shows/Predictions - 6 January - Part 2. PREDICTIONS 1.06 Dave predicts Alysa Lyu will win nationals. Dave loves her gay father and thinks he’s the one who is really coaching her. Dave told her dad he didn’t want her to wear tights over her boots, and the dad said that would not happen at Nationals. Doug says he definitely thinks Alysa will win but he thinks Bradie will skate really well but will be out-jumped. Doug thinks Nathan is unbeatable and that Jason (due to +5 GOE) will beat Vincent. Dave agrees. Doug: Zack and Maddie should win – no one knows what Evan and whatsit are up to. Dave thinks all the controversy behind the scenes (and their personalities) makes pairs exciting. Dave wondered if USF should “hold up” Bradie because Alysa doesn’t have the skating skills that Bradie has. Doug loves Denise Myers and therefore would love for Bradie to win. But he thinks Alysa has the wow factor and when you see only one girl doing triple axels it’ll bear a lot of weight. 1.10 Dave (asked by Jon): Tonya Harding could have done a quad but it wasn’t needed then. Dave thinks Eunsoo will try to do either a quad toe or a triple axel next year. Doug definitely think the page has turned for women. (1.13 Todd Eldridge learned the 3A and then 10 years later tried for quad toe). Doug says axel, sal, toe are all one family. Then the loop, flip and the lutz are another family because you take off and land on same foot. Doug thinks it’s much easier to learn a lutz than a flip or loop and that’s why you see Eteri girls doing lutzes before some of the others. (more details on loops vs lutz technique)

He wants fewer cameras??? Fuck that and everyone who just brushes off shitty technique like Shoma's and Satoko's. I want them to be more strict (but strict across the board, no favoritism).

What is Coughlin alleged to have done? More #metoo stuff?

TSL Ice Shows/Predictions - 6 January - Part 3. 1.15 Doug’s prediction for WORLDS: He’s sticking with Rika even though she lost the national title, because she has the complete package. And a second Japanese lady on podium. And then a wild card. Could be Eunsoo but he’s worried she won’t get components. MEN: Doug thinks Yuzu will be better prepared than Nathan so Yuzu first. Dance, Papadakis and Cizeron – Maddie and Zack have a great shot, then will probably be Russian – he likes Bukin better; he doesn’t think Poirer will have right politics to push them. He hopes Chinese pairs win but French team are more favored and they’re more consistent. 1.19 Dave predicts Chinese will go for a quad twist because their 2nd SBS jumps are iffy. 1.24 Dave asked Doug how he got Orser to do that 3A again at age 40. Doug said he wanted to beat Brian Boitano but unfortunately Boitano has his 3A for that Goodwill Games, and Petrenko was there too, and the results were the same as ‘88. And then “there was a big night at the bar.” Doug was teaching a junior then at the Cricket Club who didn’t want to do 3A so Doug pointed out the 40 year old doing it. To do it, Brian lost weight and worked out. Doug said these champions – they all have that extra gear, that “it” factor that makes them push themselves. The others are not risk takers. 1.26 Jonathan’s predictions – he’s hoping for a Japanese sweep at Worlds (think he meant ladies but maybe Yuzu included). He thinks Morgan and Vanessa may retire after this year/Doug frowned. (somewhere in there Doug said he was at the comp where Tonya whacked Nancy and everybody knew it was her as soon as they heard - and it overshadowed everything else that happened - probably up there where Dave mentions Tonya? Oh I don't know - sorry I didn't time stamp that - I generally tune out of the good-old-days stuff) THE END.

R125 I just listened and have no idea - but Dave was comparing the current controversy to one in gymnastics - some guy had 3 broken necks and 2 gymnasts that passed away and parents were still sending their girls to him! But gymnastics had a sexual abuse scandal too. Oh and Dave mentioned the Morozov thing - again, I didn't understand any of it but it's only the first 11 minutes if you want to listen - you'll probably get it, where I didn't because I know nothing about politics/behind the scenes stuff.

1 Shu Nakamura 233.40 (78.57+154.83)

2 Kazuki Tomono 232.77 (79.43+153.34)

3 Taichi Honda 189.61 (70.56+119.05)

Tomono fell on his second 4S, then had issues with the rest of his jumps. Maybe Tanaka is the better choice for worlds.

r123 Thanks for the summary. Medvedeva has been talking about the 4S I think as early as the summer, so it’s unlikely Eteri’s video of Zagitova was some kind of response as Lease thinks.

Haw said there’s going to be skate off for Worlds, but I find it hard to believe the Russian fed wouldn’t choose Tuk or Samodurova for the third spot.

Morozov has dated several of his own students (not all of them of legal age) and married his third wife on her 18th birthday, although he's already moved on.

Takahashi is spending time with competitive eater Takeru Kobayashi (@kobayashitakeru) again. There were rumors about them in the past, although Kobayashi is married. (By the way, both he and his wife seem to be very connected to the NYC gay scene so maybe a DL connection somewhere?) Kobayashi and Takahashi met while Takahashi was studying in New York and dating the mysterious “Takanori.”

About Takanori… According to a recent interview with Takahashi’s trainer in Josei Jishin, Takahashi had dinner with his trainer on Christmas Eve in 2017, as neither had “plans” that night (Christmas Eve is Valentine’s in Japan), where they discussed his return to competition. It’s possible the skater had broken up with Takanori by then.

R125: Less cameras AND a placement for world’s determined by one’s performance in an obscure Italian ice show.

R128: Morozov’s moved on? 🤮

When I heard that a coach at Hackensack was arrested for sexual contact with a minor, I wasn’t expecting someone else. But it’s clear that Morozov has influenced the culture at Ice House.

Andrew Lavrik is (was?) the coach of U.S. dance juniors Oona and Gage Brown, whose FD at the last JGP (which featured Oona lifting Gage) got a lot of fan love.

It’s his wife who has moved on and he’s now dating Ksenia Stolbova.

So he has moved on on old ladies

r128 Dai's guy is actually not bad looking. It's just that he has like 10 hot dogs in his mouth in most pics of him on the internet.

Tomono just doesn't have his shit together this season.

[quote] It's just that he has like 10 hot dogs in his mouth

so professional eater really means that. I thought it was a typo

What's up with Tomono not getting his shit together this season? Isn't he a little old for a growth spurt?

It's Misha's bad influence.

That one pic from faoi 2018 photobook that stan twitter is losing its collective shit about, is a clever (or not so clever) fake

R137 I was wondering why it's of such mysterious provenance and without any better scans of whatever book that is.

R137 Nooo I wanna believe

[R137] You mean Javier's head was photoshopped into guy-on-the-right's body?

What pic are you guys talking about? Link please...

R141: Here you go. (If it isn’t Javi, who could it be? Stéphane?)

Jfc I thought it would be something amazing. These girls squeal over nothing.

I saw this picture on 2ch before it was shared on Twitter so if it's fake even the guys there were none the wiser.

R133 You misunderstood that. He's not Dai's guy. Kobayashi is married to Maggie James, the woman who is in that picture with Dai and the dog.

R140, not necessarily. Yuzuru's face and his hand (identifiable by his bracelet) are not seen to be linked in the picture so they could belong to different pics. The proportions in the picture seemed wrong to me and if you look at it carefully you'll see it too. So when I got home from work, I thought I could easily trace the original pics but it seems I can't on a first try, so I could be wrong.

r141 Looks fine to me, proportions-wise. It'd be some really marvellous photoshop.

So the question is, what happened that Hanyu went from all huggy in spring to manner hands in winter?

R141 FaOI 2018 was in the summer

R145 I didn't misunderstand anything. I was responding to R128's speculation that Dai and the pro eater might have been dating. If you think it's impossible for a married dude to be gobbling cock on the side, then you should go back to your frau fest on GS.

R147 Hasn't this question been settled? Javi clearly developed a taste for Canadian meat over the summer.

how does it owrk in China? Third place gets less flower in the crown of flower?

So the boys get flowers in their hair and the girls don't get any at all? China is just so weird, skating-wise, from cancelling GPs to rescinding their star's coach change and plunging him into a depression (I assume that's what happened anyway). Who knows what's next? At least Yan Han is back (well, I guess we'll see - only have TSL's word and they've been pretty flighty). Flying Brian and Tracy over there once and that's it?? And it just seemed like a photo op instead of them actually 'doing' anything, like Misha Ge and Aljona have done.

Oh and Benoit - they've had him over too. Teaching a class and I guess doing some coaching.

R152 He also did the new choreos for Yu/Zhang while he was there

Zhang is apparently having his final exams at university these days....

R151 I think Yan Han's info comes Tong of Pang/Tong...or Pang from Pang/Tong...

Thanks for the info R153. That guy in the couple on the right looks like Yan Han (though probably younger). Surely it's not him or Misha would have named him ?!

R154 He is Yang Yongchao

R149 Kobayashi says he isn't interested in cock. The only sausages he eats on the side are served in a bun.

Loena Hendrickx out of Euros. Problems with her back

Ted interviews Brian Orser.

R158 The interview is a goldmine of Canadian passive-aggressiveness.

- Brian talks about how hard it is when skaters leave coaches; video cuts to Gogo - Brian talks about how junior girls have moved the sport ahead...in the world of junior skating. - The junior men "are just a mixed bag of...different countries." - Coach that Brian most respects in this era: Ravi Walia, for taking Osmond to Bronze at Olys

Yuzuru is doing the manner-hands because Javier probably was like, please man people keep commenting weird shit on my Instagram photos, I can't take it anymore.

That's a shame R157, Leona's programs are beautiful this year. It's unlikely anyone will be able to stop a Russian sweep at Euros without her there. Hope she's recovered for worlds.

What Russian sweep? The juniors won't be there, will they?

R161 no, they won't...but Zagitova-Kostantinova-Samoudarova are the favorite for the podium given the 4th and 5th highest SB are Vivica Lindfords and Alexia Paganini

SB by Euros Ladies

Zagitova 238.43

Samodurova 204.33

Konstantinova 197.57

Lindfords 187.19

Paganini 182.50

Meite 178.89

Lecavelier 172.41

Peltonen 172.02

Ryabova 171.10

Yamada 164.68

and yes, I know you are wondering who she is

Aw well... Still, I bet some of them have the base value needed to podium, they just never delivered clean so far.

Poor Tuk - had to catch pneumonia at the end of her great year. coming 3rd at the Grand Prix final, ahead of Samodurova, who was 5th, and Konstantinova, who was just an alternate at the GPF.

She's the Euros first Euros alternate (Med is second). She was making headway as a big personality too. Hope she rebounds but I think Worlds is out of the question?

A curling member of TCC posted a video, taken from behind the glass on the first floor, of Hanyu and Fernandez practicing together. Hanyu was doing the Otonal step sequence while Fernandez was practicing his spins. The video has been deleted, but not before it was saved and reposted elsewhere.

Higuchi is performing her MK program by Richaud at Prince Ice World.

Ge is desperately trying to appeal to the Japanese on IG for whatever reason.

JSF finally updated the Intercollegiate results page (Japanese only). Tomono’s SP CcoSp was invalidated, but that program was otherwise clean. But the scores are all over the place… 0 to +5 for CSSp4, one +3 for FCSp4 while everyone else gave a 0. Probably a mistake on the judge’s part, but Honda got -5 to +3 for his 3T+3T. I haven’t seen any video.

Mishin, who’s celebrating his 50th year of coaching, just gave an interview saying Tuk is recovered and started practicing the difficult jumps, but won’t comment on the 3A until later. The Russian fed told him 1-2 skaters at Euros will be replaced for the Worlds team.

If you’re bored and curious about the Japanese intercollegiate judges scores:

Men 男子7.8級クラス Ladies 女子7.8級クラス

Shu Nakamura 中村優

Kazuki Tomono 友野一希

Taichi Honda 本田太一

Mai Mihara 三原舞依

r168 Samudrova and Konstantinova are a bit boring, I'll take Tuk over them with all her flaws.

In other news, Gracie Gold withdrew from US Nationals.

Zhou's media call

"He is working to "Redefine my standard of what is acceptable jump rotation" w/his coaching team; training is going well & he thinks change will be noticeable at nationals: "They (tech panels) are keeping an eagle-eye on my jumps but it doesn't bother me." "

me me me me...and my standards

does anyone told him that the standards are decided by ISU and technical panels and not by him?

R168 Link to TCC video? I haven't seen it anywhere.

R171 I laughed hard at Phil Hersh's response to ol' Vince. That he has never known any skater who expresses themselves more richly, more thoughtfully, so impressive.....

Vincent's instagram makes up for his skating. He needs to get judges onboard, one post is an extra goe point.

I think my country needs me.

I hope Liza will get her 3A back by Worlds. She is nothing without 3A.

So American nationals is this weekend?

R176

No

They are on the 19th to 27th week

Jan 13-20 Canadian Nationals in St John, New Brunswick.

Jan 19-27 USA Nationals in Detroit.

Jan 21-27 Europeans in Minsk, Belarus.

Feb 4-10 Four Continents in Anaheim, California.

March 4-10 World Junior Championships in Zagreb, Croatia.

March 18-24 Worlds in Saitama City, Japan.

April 11-14 World Team Trophy in Fukuoka, Japan.

this week we have Mentor Cup in Poland and EduSport in Romania

Livestream from Poland

Why haven't they announced the location for Skate America next season? It's really weird, all the other locations have been announced already.

Reading the Gracie threads are always good for a laugh. Nobody can ever call a spade a spade, everything has to have the most ridiculous positive PR spin. Mr. Magoo could have seen that she wasn't going to be competition ready this season. I just find it so funny compared to the constant doom and gloom when someone is talking about Russian skaters and how they are "done" after one bad competition. Try posting that Gracie is "done" and see what kind of reaction you get.

Korean Nationals Jan. 9-13.

Cha details from GS: His boots are still brand new He apparently tried several pairs. Orser arrived (as of January 9).

Junhwan is No. 5 out of 8 senior men. Men's Short Program (Jan 12) 15:48-16:08 -- 3rd Day Competition (Jan. 13),15:00-16:08 -- Gala (Jan 13) 17:00-18:00. [I assume the times are Korean]

Seems a bit weird that Javier arrives to TCC and almost immediately Brian has to take off for Korea, but with students from all corners of the world, I guess it's to be expected. In a way, In some ways, I'm relieved that Boyang didn't go to TCC - however would Brian have survived?

Men in SP at Mentor Cup

1) Brendan Kerry 79.99

2) Gabriele Frangipane 68.19

3) Demirboga Burag 66.36

Ladies SP

1) Marina Piredda 53.75

2) Isadora Williams 53.48

3) Laura Karhunen 51.43

EduSport

All men below 60 points

Brezinova leading among Ladies with 54.19

r182 Why is it weird that Brian has to take off to Korea right after Javier arrives? That's Brian's schedule. It'd be weirder if he didn't go with Cha to Nationals. I really doubt Brian took a look at Javier and then decided that Korean Nationals are the place to be.

Oh I wasn't implying he looked at Javi and decided to go to Korea. I guess I just hoped he'd be there to coach Javi for the last competition. And he did skip a number of Jun's Korean comps that led up to the Nationals, so maybe I was expecting that pattern to continue. But you're right - he should be there. If anything, Jun may be his student who's most likely to succeed in the future - not counting Yuzu but it's iffy as to how much longer he'll be competing.

R182 and some trolls used to bash his decision not training with Brian Lolll. Although he started the season with poor performances ( like he did since forever), he's doing well now. It's better for him to train in China than in a foreign country, with a super busy head coach who is dealing with Med's shit , has to fly to all corners of the world every week and can't spend reasonable time with his students during important peak season.

186 If I remember correctly, it wasn't the trolls who bashed Boyang's decision to stay in China. Trolls bash just in order to provoke and incite a reaction, and it was mostly people who actually wanted Boyang to succeed that criticized him. Boyang didn't need Brian per se but he would have benefited from a stable training environment - Hanyu has always seemed to be doing fine despite Brian's absences - and the magic of Brian's name. This was the crux of the matter, you jump quads and are Orser's students, and suddenly judges start noticing how your skating skills and artistry have improved, even if they didn't.

That said, after the mess with Med, the Orser magic might be gone, and even if Boyang moved to TCC now, it might not have its desired effect.

r185 Wilson has also been touring with Fernandez, so maybe he had some coaching while he was in Spain. Canadian Nationals are next week and Orser will likely be gone again.

Hanyu accepted his Japan Sports Award via video message and said he’s continuing treatment and rehab, and trying to return to form as soon as possible.

Pointless news updates:

It was Itsuki’s (@jumokuno0108) birthday two days ago! He’s appearing on Tokai TV’s “Takeisou” [bold]without[/bold] his brother tonight to demonstrate his field hockey skills. (Tokai TV is a regional channel, but hopefully someone will upload a clip.)

Gallagher (@sportsjapan) recently interviewed Ge in his podcast. Supposedly, Ge said the skater he wants to choreograph for the most is Takahashi. Gallagher is interviewing pianist Jennifer Thomas (composer of “Beautiful Storm” and Kihira’s FS music) next. Has anyone listened to the Kozuka interview yet? Speaking of Kozuka, he was recently blamed for the extremely poor ratings (2.2%!) the Fujiyama New Year special received. Tabloids have dubbed it the "Kozuka Curse."

Radford and Abbott have been working on a same-sex routine (in the literal sense, you freaks), perhaps with some pointers from Judge Bulge.

R188 I tried to listen to the Kozuka interview but I couldn't. Jack sounds like his larynx's been crushed and Kozuka had to speak through an interpreter. Has the wife come out with more receipts? I hope Takahashi doesn't fall for all the ass kissing. I'm sure there's a line of people who would love to choreograph for him. He doesn't need Ge's discount prices. Someone here is a fan of Ge's choreo and helpfully listed the good programs and I did watch them, but I wasn't really into them.

Did Hanyu also say he's continuing to next season during the video message?

I came across this compilation of Dick Button's best moments as a commentator (best as in most vicious). I remember seeing this on DL before, but here it is again:

R189 He said his goal next season is to win GPS and do the 4A with perfect package. You can watch part of the video on Yomiuri's site. His award is at the beginning.

R188 What is Judge Bulge's day job? Other than creeping around skaters and taking bulge selfies by the pool.

r190 Thank you.

Misha Ge is overhyped as a choreographer methinks

It's really a pity that Yuzu missed this award ceremony once again and did not get to stand next to and talk to this tall piece of snack in the past 3 years.

R193 But Shohei did his hair LGC-style to show where his heart lies.

r191 I don't know, but I'm sure Judge Czar can give us the inside info. Is he Fenero's, Radford's or Abbott's "friend"? How "open" is Fenero?

There are most interesting scandals going on right now and Kozuka and wife are likely in the middle of negotiations. The tabloids did say there was more to be released, but maybe the wife's team is holding off to see if he'll agree to her demands.

Ge has been after Takahashi for years and did a Takahashi tribute, so he's probably already been turned down at least once. Takahashi seems to have a good relationship with Wilson and an even better relationship with Richaud (who also has a good relationship with Japanese ladies), though maybe he'd let Ge do an ex for a show.

At first I thought it was to appeal to the Japanese fans as they've soured on him even more since his behavior at Nationals and Rostelecom, but now I wonder if the purpose of Ge's Osaka video was to impress Takahashi. Maybe Ge's out of practice or he doesn't look as good off-ice, but I was surprised by how unimpressive his dancing was.

Excuse me, r182, Ge can't be an overhyped choreographer id I'm the *only* fan.

r189 I've forgotten that bitch insulted the Carmen that ruined all other Carmens for me. That Krylova/Ovsiannikov one was DA SHIT, go big or home, just like a Carmen should. be.

R195 Misha as a dancer is basically Misha as a skater. Lots of stuff going on around the hands but nothing else.

R196 Lol I was entertained by the Krylova/Ovsiannikov Carmen too, but Dick's comment was deliciously cunty: "her expressiveness will reach the 70th row of the arena. Unfortunatley, there are only 30 rows in it."

This thread needs a photo.

Cha's SP at Nats. 89.12

Brendan Kerry wins Torun Cup with 205.95 but he lost FS to Frangipane (198.96) and Hayrapetian (who bombed the SP and finished 6th overall)

Takahashi gave a talk on his “D-Color” condominiums, “SkyCourt D-iberte Asakusa,” which will be completed this spring (www.d-color.tokyo). The 13-story, black, red, and white condo building is a 7-minute walk from Asakusa station in Tokyo and SkyTree can be seen from its rooftop. The purpose of the event was to find potential buyers who will allow SkyCourt to manage and rent out their condos. Everyone who attended the talk received a Takahashi clear file.

Takahashi also talked about his skating goals for next season. He’s thinking about starting with Kinki regionals again and maybe doing some B-competitions if he feels like it, but he’s not thinking about the GPS at this time.

He also said that since he successfully landed the 4T*, some have been telling him he can do the 4S, so he’d like to do work on that and if possible, do one quad in the SP and another in the FS next season.

*I think he was referring to the 6-minute warm up because he didn’t do the quad during his actual performance at Nationals and he wasn’t referring to past competitions.

In scary news, Hashimoto has been encouraged to run for governor of Hokkaido this year, but rumor has it that she's more interested in running for governor of Tokyo in 2020. Also, the JOC president was reportedly indicted by the French for bribery yesterday. Hashimoto is the JOC VP and considered to be a possible successor when the JOC president resigns after the Summer Olympics (where Hanyu is expected to be one of the torch runners).

Lol, as usual there is really no limit to how batshit crazy Yuzu antis are.

R202 I also like the clone/body double theory that's managed to float to the top lately, turdlike. Hanyu antis really give Virtue/Moirs a run for their money with the theories. V/M tinhats are more disturbing but the Hanyu crazies are so much funnier.

How you guys find these scary corners of the internet is beyond me...glad my favorite skater isn't popular enough to stir up such psychosis (or at least I've never gone looking for any of it - ignorance is bliss!)

Everyone takes photos like this with their coach and his life partner, right?

The fact that I had to watch Cha wearing those uninspired costumes for a whole season depresses me.

r204 I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their house. Does Deniss have two surrogate daddies or does he have two daddies?

Plushenko was hospitalized again with severe back pain. He's still in his mid-30s...imagine what a hard time he will have when he reaches middle age. I hope it was all worth it to him.

R201 Dai's one of the few skaters whose programs don't look dated to me, so I wish he would just focus on skating clean, beautifully performed programs rather than going for a quad.

Hashimoto must have major dirt on some very very powerful people, is all I can come up with to explain her steady rise.

R207 Apparently, Plush skated his 30+ ice shows on painkillers. I don't understand why he's still doing this. Isn't Plush already loaded?

Plushenko is a fame whore, he can't stand fading into obscurity.

r208 I believe Plush is quite rich but maybe he had some contracts he couldn't easily get away from. He'll hopefully tone down now, maybe focus on that school of his. But all in all, I don't think Plush would exchange all of his medals and wealth for perfect health in lower middle class and obscurity.

At least Hanyu's biggest health problem seems to be his foot, not his spine or knees. At worst he could just hack it off and get a prosthetic but you can't replace a spine.

Korean nationals

GS comments “[Junhwan] doesn't seem to be in good condition. anyway he finished the program. last fall was really dangerous to see though.. nice step sequence (his left boot got killed at the first Lutz attempt.) He had ruined boots and hung on 4T and 4S. and he missed first 3Lz combo and then he did two 3A, one with combo, and he tried to put 3Lo to his last 3Lo (which is just after Julieeeeet! part)”

Men Final Results 1 Junhwan Cha 245.52 2 Jun hyoung Lee 194.33 3 Sihyeong Lee 190.92 4 Younghyun Cha 183.37 5 Jaeseok Kyeong 176.35 6 Geonhyeong An 174.34 7 Sejong Byun 164.38 8 Sunghoon Park 162.66

Senior Ladies Final Results (Top10) 1 Young You 198.64 2 Eunsoo Lim 194.20 3 Haein Lee 187.73 4 Soyoun Park 176.74 5 Yelim Kim 172.90 6 Seoyoung Wi 171.62 7 Seoyeon Ji 168.04 8 Jihun To 162.60 9 Hanul Kim 161.16 10 Yujin Choi 157.07

r211 Lucky for Cha that he doesn't have much competition in Korea. 245 is nothing to write home about. He'd better get those boot problems sorted out soon.

What needs to be noted though is that Korean Nationals have very very strict rankings - whereas other Nationals such as RusNats or JPN Nats inflate the scores up to the sky, Korean Nationals give their skaters much much lower scores than they would get at an International competition.

South Korea also have a very strict selection process that sometimes doesn't even make sense

4 Continents selection in based on Ranking Competition held a couple of weeks ago

Worlds selection is based on Nationals

Nationals take place before 4 Continents entry deadline anyway

The outcome this year is that Haniul Kim beats Park by 0.something at Ranking Competition and get third 4CCs spot

At Nationals Park beats Kim by 15 points but it won't matter in the end (1 spot at Worlds and it goest to Lim who has been beaten by the young girl who is not age eligible for Senior Worlds)

[R211] Why do elite skaters end up with boot problems? Don't they have a schedule for when to get new boots so that there is plenty of time to break them in? Shouldn't the coaches be monitoring that?

We missed Norwegian Nationals last weekend

The male field is so deep. Out of Novice, Junior, Senior, whatever, Sondre was the only male entry.

Maybe I'm crazy - but I swear I remember reading somewhere that Hanyu can wear one pair of boots for four years

r217 I read that he gets a new pair every season and always brings an old pair (or two?) to the competition, in a different luggage, as a back up. Maybe it means that he keeps a pair as long as four years?

I also read that Nathan goes through up to 4 pairs a season. I remember he had his boots all taped up either at Olys or Worlds.

It's possible that Hanyu's more limited ice-time allows for longer longevity of boots.

It could be that Cha did get new boots in spring but he already wore them out.

Thanks R218 - that makes more sense (that he keeps the 4 year olds as one of his backup pairs). Some skaters need to study his bootology rules (looking at you, Karen Chen). You'd think Cha would already have learned from him but maybe his size, weight, practice time, technique, etc., are so different, he's just harder on boots.

R219 From what I've read, Karen Chen injured her foot a few years ago and it didn't heal properly. And it was after that injury that she started having all the boot problems.

I read somewhere that Cha has gotten a few new boots last year but he outgrew them and since then he has a hard time to find new boots because he is still growing! But I also read that a Skating boot fabricant has a new System for measuring a skaters foot to choose the right boot for every skater . Hopefully his boot problems will be solved soon!

R217 You're probably thinking of this translated bit where Hanyu said when he jumps, he uses his body strength and doesn't rely on his boots so he doesn't go through them as quickly and that they could last up to 4 years. The translation or the original is a little unclear.

I believe different boot brands wear out at different rates. And custom fitted boots can take some time to build. I heard Rika needed new boots but they weren't ready until after Japanese Nats.

The only good thing to come out of that dreadful xylitol costume:

Good shot, R224. That was a weird costume though.

Speaking of... I used to think Junhwan had a sort of blocky shape, but in this set of photos, it looks like he's developing a defined waist, a bit more like Yuzu. The hair is weird though - too poofy, like a ladies hairstyle from the past. Like the V neckline and the jewelry though. He has the most interesting face - babyish, so fair, oh I don't know how to describe it. It'll be interesting to see how he ages.

OMG, TSL is interviewing Misha Ge.

R226: Those are four slappable faces.

R226: WTF do those four have to smile about?

TSL Misha Ge 13 Jan: =TSL Misha Ge. He says he got a text from Brian to choreo for Med, “a big surprise for me as well.” 9.19 Jonathan asked about the “skate off” they’re going to have to decide the Russian team (to Worlds?) 10.45 Dave asked about Tomono. Ge said JPF came to him to ask him to choreo for Kazuki (after Worlds in Milan.) He says he worked with Kazuki in the summer, giving him practice exercise and “homework” to improve (as the JPF had asked him to) “so we kind of became a team with his coach and they were hoping we’d have long partnership and work on that - now after six months, I’m not his choreographer, I’m more his coach”. His coach taught him 10 yrs and Ge says he respects him and he tries not to cross the line too much. They use simplified English to communicate. They work on all sorts of things, including mindset – Ge’s not happy with his spins yet. 16 Ge’s coach and his parents work w/Tomono too--and his ballet teacher. 17.30 He’s been helping Med for years, trying to encourage her. 19 He brags about his artistic family after Dave asked how he got started in choreo. First he did his own & about 10 years ago he choreographed for Daisuke somebody (Murakami?) His grandfather skated professionally for China for 25 years – then he coached, etc… 28 He choreographed for Mishin’s students and many others – even competitors who were rivals. Then lots of stuff about where he grew up, how he doesn’t get help from big fed so he has to do all travel arrangements, etc. 38 He admires Plush, Dai, Yagudin, Sandhu, etc. 41 Differences of US, China and Russian training. Michin vs Frank Carroll. 46 Why he went to California to work with Frank (after living in Russia till age 10 and China till 18). 48 Why he has such a big fanbase (Jon asked). 52 Why he did glam rock style in Sochi. 56 Bunch of hair dyeing details. 1.01 After a terrible worlds where he didn’t make the FS, he started from zero and had great year (2015) and he explains his philosophy of life – you choose whether to be negative or positive. Then talk about motivating himself/others. 1.06 when he worked on quad and hurt his ankle (2016): His joints were wearing out on his pick leg. Plush said just get a titanium joint and you’ll be fine - Misha said ‘that's not for me.’ Then how painful Boston Worlds was – he was hitting wall with his fist to try to wake up his body. 1.11 He thought of retiring or Pyeongchang. 1.17 His retiring and does he miss skating. 1.19 was a rep at ISU conference/wants to help make skating more popular. 1.21 He’s just as interested in being a coach as being a choreographer – then what’s coming up for him. Because he’s doing a few weeks of a show (Art on Ice?) as a skater -- “he has skaters at Europeans and 4 Continents” and unfortunately he cannot be with them but he’ll keep his eye on them and keep working together remotely. Maybe a few of his skaters will compete at Worlds, so that might be what he "possibly" does next. Then training camps and choreo coming up too. At the end, Jonathan said thank you for teaching us that it’s Misha Ge like the letter “G”

R229: TSL Troll, once again you take the bullet for us.

Thanks 230 - sorry for the double title. I was annoyed Dave didn't ask about the bracelets! It was very respectful - on all sides - if I didn't know about that other side of him, he'd have me convinced he was a great guy. Well, hopefully that's all in the past...

Oh in the first 9 minutes he talks about Med and the first short program that didn't work out - he gently says David Wilson is great but Med isn't capable of doing different styles, as other skaters like Yuna Kim were, so she wasn't quite ready for that.

Why did I think Sandra Bezin *or whatever her last name is) choreographed that short - and David did the boring long?? I think I got that from Dave Lease, actually - but maybe it was David after all. God I hated that thing - and all those perky "sassy" little pieces. I'll take the melodramatic miming any day.

R228 LOL you guys are a tough crowd. What did Tracy ever do to anyone?

R229 I appreciate the recaps too; thank you. The summaries are excellent. A few times, I watched the episodes after reading the recaps and thought it was a total waste of my time because your recaps contained all the interesting bits.

R232 Sandra Bezic consulted with David Wilson on the SP. She's sometimes listed as co-choreographer. She talked quite a bit about it at the beginning of the season.

Thanks R233 - I feel guilty which is why I put all the time stamps, thinking people will go click on the video to read the parts they're interested in, so I'm not cheating Dave and Jonathan after all - ahem, then the OCD part of me takes over and I go on and on and on....

Also thanks R234! That was really bugging me and you cleared it up!

[R231] Sorry but can someone tell me what the bracelets thing is about? I've just got into figure skating and I don't get the inside joke. I'm genuinely curious.

R236 You're going to regret you ever asked because it is the stupidest thing ever, so I'm going to keep it short. Hanyu wears bracelets. Over the summer, Med and Misha bought the same bracelets. On SNS, Med showed off said bracelet along with gloves from Hanyu's rink, encouraging rumors that they were together. Apparently, she had a history of liking posts that shipped them. She continued to do stuff to suggest some kind of relationship between them even after Hanyu publicly and pointedly denied that they were together. She has since gotten the message and moved on to her Bulgarian twink.

Just to add - Misha's role in all of this was that he seemed to be egging on her little crush/PR move for whatever reason. But bracelets are only a tiny part of why Misha is one of this thread's favorite whipping boys. The major reasons all have to do with his ubiquity and general pretentiousness.

With respect to this thread, "bracelets" is sometimes shorthand for saying we've beat this issue to death, let's fucking move on.

Angela Wang has withdrawn from US nationals.

So who's left?

Basically just Bradie Tennell, Mariah Bell, Ting Cui, and Alysa Liu. Maybe Amber Glenn if she finally gets her act together.

r240 Are Starr Andrews and Hicks still on the list? Not that they matters for medals. Although, in that field, who knows.

R241, as far I know they're both also competing. They're unlikely to be medal contenders, but I agree that in such a depleted field you never know.

R233: She’s with them, so she’s part of it.

What’s the ratio for skating vs posing for pics. The endless pr campaign out of tcc shows a lack of substance in that center.

Election for ISU Athlete Commission

Candidates

Single and Pairs

Misha Ge

Eric Redford

Ice Dance

Yuri Hulitski (elected unopposed)

R244 Interesting! What does the Athlete Commission do? When will we know the results? John Coughlin is currently the chair of the Athlete Commission, so they'll be in good company! I'm casting my worthless, internet vote for Eric.

R245

Coughlin is out. Ge or Redford are replacing him as he is not standing again

The evil would say the right answer is "nothing"

It used to be linked with the Athlete Representative on the ISU Technical Committee but now ISU can appoint whoever they want to the TC regardless of the result of Athlete Commission election. So Coughlin can carry on on the Technical Committee if ISU doesn't kick him out

R246 Thanks for answering my question. For the bored few, here's the ISU Communication on it. It does sound like a do nothing position whose purpose is to "represent the views of the athletes and make their voice heard within the ISU." Maybe it is a way for someone with aspirations to get their foot in the door. I recall Misha running for some other ISU position this summer.

R210, I hate to say this, but it's still early days for Yuzuru Hanyu in terms of injury. Evgeni's spine problems are mainly a result of his Bielmann spin.

Bielmann spins should be banned. Skaters have been permanently harmed by that (usually) ugly spin.

Some details regarding Plush's injury: he needed surgery to remove a herniated disc from his spine. I hope Hanyu takes note and stopes practicing that ridiculous spin.

Are women not harmed by Biellmans? Because it seems like most of them do it.

And gymnasts do even more hyperextension of the spine with those extreme backbends - or is it something about the Biellmann that makes it worse than a backbend?

Wow - Michael Christian Martinez has a pretty amazing Biellmann - I think his is more stretched than Yuzuru's. I'll have to go look at Plushenko's, which I don't remember - but didn't Plush land his quads and other jumps in a kind of clunky heavy way? I would think that would be pretty rough on the spine - the Japanese low knee bend landing takes a lot of the impact off the back, I would think. (and I know some others have bendy landings too - seems like Kolyada's is quite smooth and pretty, when he ever manages to land a jump)

It's easier for women to do the Biellman, they're generally more flexible in that area. Notice that men's Biellmans usually look like a circle and women's look like a tear drop. I'm surprised to hear that skaters have been harmed by Biellmans, though I guess you can be harmed by any move of you do it without proper warm up. Also, the spin Yuzuru should ditch is the one in which he bends down, I don't even what's that called.

R246 yes, it looks like a void position. I mean, they barely got a candidate for the Ice Dance slot and he is an unknown 22 year old guy. Last time (the first time) they had more candidates. Ge was beaten by a mile. It was Couglin vs Verner and few votes for the rest (Ge, Marchei, Ten, Tong, Korpi and maybe a couple of others)

If Coughlin is forced to resign from Technical Committee (a more important position) by his SafeSport case, the winner of Ge vs Redford may be considered for appointment there.

R254 The A spin? I fucking hate that spin so fucking much.

A reporter managed to fool hospital staff and guards into thinking he or she was one of Plushenko’s relatives, got into Plushenko’s room, took photo and/or video, and woke him up to ask questions about his health.

Kanako Murakami is making her acting debut. She’s playing a jewelry shop attendant in the next episode of the Japanese remake of “The Good Wife.”

A ballroom dancer has leaked that Arakawa and Takahashi will be judging the Super Japan Cup. I’m not sure how they’re qualified to judge, but Hashimoto is a member of the JBDF (Japan Ballroom Dance Federation), so the job likely came through her.

What is going on with Carrillo? He pulled out of Torun cup, but he’s been posting videos of himself skating, including on the day he withdrew.

R236 You can read about it starting from “Figure Skating Part CV.” It was during a whole week of cringey behavior. Peak Misha Ge.

R243 Orser agreed to Brown, so Tracy had to agree to Medvedeva. She hasn’t talked to the press much about Med or even Brown, and she’s always been very calm in the K&C. I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t agree with some of the PR tactics.

R247 Is the position entirely volunteer or are some expenses paid?

Regarding Biellman spins, I'm female and was forced to stop training the Biellman when I was getting recurring spasms in my chest and back area. I was pretty flexible at the time - I could do the splits all three ways and a nice layback. Some people just can't physically get their bodies in that position.

Hanyu's unusually supple and flexible so maybe the Biellmann isn't as much of a strain on him, but he's been phasing it out, which is probably a good idea. That being said, his layback IB is deeper than it's been for years, so he doesn't appear to have back issues yet.

Oooh you're good R257 - thanks for the scoops!

I found this comment (article linked) about Yuzuru, his back, and the Biellmann (though maybe his back problems weren't related to performing the Biellmann and they just impacted him being able to do it for a while):

February 13, 2015:  "However we have seen this season, some instances where Yuzu has chosen not to perform the Biellmann spin due to his back pain issues."

R256 That's the one. I hate it too, it's so ugly, I don't see the point of it.

r261 Some men have a good one, just not Hanyu. The trick is to have the leg that's not on the ice quite far apart and some enhance the whole thing by moving that leg up and apart before letting go. Boyang Jin's version is actually great as a part of his combination spin, see below.

r257 That reporter story is a whole new level off shitty.

time stamp, 2:15

I think the Bielmann has been the culprit in several career-ending labral tears--i.e., tears in the cartilage around the hip joint.

Ugly spin. Get rid of it and bring back those long, glorious spirals.

Men aren't and will never be as flexible as women. Some are just more flexible compared other men. Hanyu Biellmann spin doesn't look good and it could affect his back. He should ditch it.

R260 I've been a Hanyu fan for years and I've never heard about him having back pain issues or dropping his Biellmann because of that. IIRC he's said the actual reason why he drops his Biellmann sometimes is to save energy during the free skate (he didn't do it in the long program at the Olympics bc of that, but then he did perform it at the gala a few days later). He's not the lazy type to skip over elements, but he skips the Biellmann when he's skating with some type of injury and needs to tone down his program content to prioritize the jumps (that's why he didn't do it at the Olympics, COC 2014 and recently at CoR 2018, just a few examples). I think it's more complicated to fit the spin into the program now that the free skate is 30 seconds shorter. He's probably realized that he won't lose any points if he replaces that spin, but he still likes to do it whenever he can. He said he's especially training it now that he's doing a Plushenko tribute program.

I remember watching an interview with Debbie Thomas in which she said that the human body is not supposed to bend like that-referring to the Beilmann.

R266 being a fan doesn't make you an expert and you not hearing about it doesn't mean it can't be real, thanks

R257 I skimmed the Constitution and it's not clear whether office holders on the Athletes Commission even get their expenses paid (there are sections providing for expenses like travel, room/board for certain positions, but nothing for "office holders," such as those on the AC).

I did find this interesting language regarding the percentage of a skater's endorsements, ice show appearances etc. that go to their fed:

[quote] "Participation of Skaters and Officials in national competitions and in non-competitive events, e.g. appearances, endorsements, exhibitions, shows and other events with a recreational or show type character are subject to respective rules and conditions of their ISU Members only. Such rules and conditions are not part of the ISU eligibility rules under this Rule 102. However, ISU Members may not unduly restrict their Skaters to participate in non-competitive events. They may share payments received by their Skaters for participation in such noncompetitive events in consideration of past and present support of such Skaters, but with no more than 10%.

Am I reading this right? No more than 10%? For some reason, I always thought the feds received a greater percentage.

r269 Endorsements too? No wonder federations want them some stars.

damn...

R266 - I think I remember an interview where he talked about back injuries (I think it was in print). And just from Wikipedia:

Hanyu withdrew from the 2014 Finlandia Trophy due to a back injury.[82][83]

Zaccardi, Nick (23 September 2014). "Yuzuru Hanyu (back) pulls out of first event this season". NBC Sports. Retrieved 8 November 2014.

Whether or not he had a back injury doesn't remove the possibility that Biellmann spin affect his back badly.

Article on Gabby Daleman. Sounds like she's dealing with a host of issues: depression, anxiety, visual disturbances, fatigue, ADHD, learning disabilities, stomach issues. They attribute some of this in part to a concussion she suffered in fall 2018.

R267 Yes, I remember that too. The problem with the Bielmann is that the risk of a career-ending injury is too high.

R274 How is she even alive, poor girl.

Actually she sounds like the lady from that Julianne Moore's movie.

Mariah Bell on Nathan Chen: "I'm really close with Nathan - he's like my little brother. Actually him and my boyfriend are like inseparable - they're best friends."

Darling, we should talk.

R277 LOL are you talking about Safe?

Also Mariah: "Nathan comes to our place for sleep overs often. Except he and Romain spend most of the time locked in the bedroom playing video games. They are really competitive so there's quite a bit of screaming and yelling and injured animal sounds. But they are also supportive, so it's not uncommon for me to hear one or the other yell, 'Faster! Harder! You can do it!' We're like one big happy family."

Read Lucinda Ruh's memoir. She was a mental and especially physical wreck. Brain issues from all that spinning. She was also gifted with one of the most horrendous skating mothers. I was shocked that she eventually had a healthy pregnancy once she quit skating. I like skating much less after reading that.

279 yeah that's the one I meant. Maybe something in the rink's air is making Gabby sick. Not to make light of her issues but she sounds rather hypochondriac.

Medo gave an interview today and when asked what she misses about the Cricket Club, she said she misses Jason and she's sorry she will miss Javi since he will be at Euros when she gets back. Seems she left out someone.

Part 1: TSL 14 Jan Korean Nats – Guests Alissa Czisner/Kimmie Meisner – First their opinion about upcoming US Nats. Ladies 3-way showdown Bradie Mariah Alysa. K says Bradie will probably win but don’t forget Ting Cui, her dark horse. They said Liu shouldn’t be pushed too much too soon. 9 some judge (Robin Silcovy?) is moving to California/will train Kneirems; D asks was he responsible for T/M’s Candy Man which they all were laughing about. “Looks like Rafael will be there too” (with Robin? I think that’s what he meant – he said, “It looks like we’re trying to set up training centers in California.) KOREAN NATS 10.45 The skaters looked tired. They’re too busy. 13 Tom Z’s You Young won – she’s working on 3A and quad Lutz but hasn’t rotated them yet. She won Senior Nationals at age 11! D said she had best jumps and speed but programs were juniorish. K found her most engaging but D disagreed. D thinks she may be competitive w/Russians at junior worlds. A: All the Lutzes looked like Yuna, who had such a great one. 16: Comparing Korean vs Japanese vs US technique, esp Lutz. D: Korean ladies were all giving “Madison Chock” face (very expressive) while Japanese are all about knees and edges. 22 All discuss how great Rika Kihira is. Back to Korea, they were impressed by 3rd place Lee. 32 And by Park & YelimKim (beautiful arms). 39 JUNHWAN CHA. He looked tired but always goes for his quads – never pops. Has “scratch” 3A that K was worried about. D hates his ‘bird wings’ air position and thinks he needs a ballet class to stretch his legs more.

Part 2 TSL 14 Jan: 43 D sent A&K videos of a new young Russian, Kamela Volyeva??, on Eteri’s real Instagram, Eteri said this girl had her fave short program of all time. She may be Eteri’s new pet. 45 They love Eteri’s students’ flow out of their jumps. Eteri scores her students every day in their practice. 47 A thinks feds should support girls thru the growth period and they’d become better skaters as adults (like Carolina) but there’s not enough support. 48:45 What of Chock/Bates return? The new Marie France version. D: loved Madison doing the Elvis number; they look more refined than Cain/LeDuc, who’ve been making a lot of mistakes. 53 D noted Eteri’s students’ programs starting and finishing on same theme. A: Because ballet is that way? K: Russians tell stories with their programs, definitely more than Americans. 56:40 D is worried that Nats will be really boring without Ashley. K: You want the drama. D: Well, there has to be something. 57 D anecdote: his bf and he saw Ashley stare down Gracie Gold across the hotel bar. D and bf are going to Detroit this year. Alysa is performing Wed Jan 23 with Yuka Sato, Jeremy Abbott: free show to benefit Skate to Prevent Cancer. 59 D wants to see where Tonya/Nancy went down – and if Rafael has “another outburst” he’d like to be there to record it again. 1.01 A says don’t walk around downtown Detroit because it’s not safe. (she gives some details on how to get around) 1:06 They’re talking about Instagrams and D prefers Meryl Davis’ dog’s Instagram over her own. The other two love Meryl’s Insta. 1.08.40: Videos of Irina Slutskaya on her Instagram doing ballet and then skating on a snowy pond, followed by Instagram video of Michelle Kwan skating on a pond.

* Oops in Part 1 - I said some judge and meant some coach - the Robin guy. Also, they liked Jun a lot (his projection of his personality in skating) and think he has benefited a lot from watching Yuzu and Javi at TCC - and Kimmie doesn't want to go to Nationals because she doesn't want to pay for a ticket plus it makes her feel sad to not be competing. She thinks ex-skaters should be given tickets for free (Dave said yeah they should with all those empty seats) -- not a single word about the men at US Nationals lol.

Sorry, TSL Troll, I know you love him, but Dave is full of shit: 1) Young You is slow as fuck; 2) at some point this summer, he talked about how Tom Z had all these Korean girls with 3As. Now we know they are practicing 3As but haven't been able to rotate them yet. I guess in the age Vincent & Shoma, skaters can be said to "have" a jump without actually rotating them.

Isn't it sad that even if the US and Canada (two former powerhouses) pooled their Nats together, the men and ladies singles still wouldn't be worth watching?

R286 Well, duh, we'd all benefit from watching this at TCC

Oh I'm just the stenographer, R287 - I don't vouch for anything. And I just think he's cute :)

He's also said in the past that Kaori was boring and just "nice" but then he decided he was great - and he said that Yuzu hated Shoma or was jealous of him or something which, as you say, is pure bullshit. Gotta get those clicks somehow though!

Oh, and I used to not like Jonathan but now I do - and I missed him! (he had the flu) Sometimes he's been a bit manic and talks too much for my taste, but lately I've noticed he's calmed down quite a bit. I don't know why - I've tried other podcasts/v-logs, but I always come back to this one as my favorite. I guess it's the gossipy angle.

*Dammit I screwed up again. It's Alissa that's performing in Detroit for 'Skate to Benefit Cancer' - too many similar names for me...

And thanks R288 - that's a hot one!! Well worth a W/W. And I agree that US and Canada are pretty sad R287. Put them all together and there's one star - Nathan - an awkward introvert but at least he can quad his heart out - and, so far, manage to avoid a nervous breakdown. Oh and there's Jason but without quads these days, well... sad.

We need some ass

I love that one especially because of the definition of the thigh muscles. Whoa.

r289 I've attempted to watch a few others as well but they're always so dry. It's pretty obvious that Jonathon doesn't know much about skating and I wish their biases didn't sway their commentary so much but at least they have personality. The other ones are so boring and PJ's "yup" quirk annoys the piss out of me. TSL was much better when Jenny was on the show though. She added a lot more substance than Jonathon and balanced Dave's bitchiness without being saccharine

I only watch TSL with Yuzu content and then regret it because of their boring biased commentary.

And the girls are nice ("In the Loop") but it's like just a recap of what happened - and their opinions aren't spicy or something. Just stuff we all know/think. And one of them (I won't name names) has the world's worst glottal fry and upspeak - I can't take it!!! That's when I head to the transcript... but still, I can't really think of anything new I found out from them. They do have a little clique from which they send reps to the actual comps, at least sometimes, so there's that I guess. I really should give them more of a try but after three goes, I just wasn't that interested.

And say what you will, Dave does have a few sources - you can tell by all the interviews - Doug Haw, Aljona, Meghan - he knows these people and probably has their phone numbers. Does he make stuff up sometimes? I think yes, he does, but not often. Probably less now that he's been called out about some of his shit.

I want to thank you for summarizing TSL as always and taking one for the team. As far as I’m concerned you can put any bias you want into it as long as you save me 90 min of pain and suffering(occasionally 10 min worth of interesting content).

Thanks R296 - I've been trying to cover the most interesting parts of all of it (I used to skip pairs/dance). And right now, he's got two videos with Kimmie Meisner, but I wasn't following skating then so I don't plan on watching and recapping. Someone on GS said in her second video, she went into a lot of her personal problems that eventually drove her out of skating (that related to Gabby's problems) - now I can't find the post - probably on here somewhere lol.

Gallagher is planning another fan dinner with Richaud this time during Worlds. He didn’t specify the date or location, but it’ll probably be at another restaurant in Tokyo.

Stars on Ice Japan cast so far: Fernandez, Duhamel/Radford, Uno (Kanazawa only), Chan, Shimada, Miyahara, Sakamoto (missing 4/5 Kanazawa), Mihara, Kihira, Shiraiwa (Sapporo only), Shib Sibs. Details for Osaka shows still being worked out. Does this mean more compromising backstage videos of Fernandez and Radford?

Challenger Cup: Uno, Sota, Kagiyama, Kihira, Wakaba.

Bavarian Open: Miyahara, Aoki, Shimada, Kishina.

Universiade (this was already announced): Tomono, Nakamura, Sato, Mihara, Hina Takeno.

Chinese Olympic channel posted a video of Hanyu imitating Cizeron and teasing Orser about his lack of 6-pack (5:30) while warming up during the Olympics:

r269 Thank you. Ge was just complaining about how busy he's been and how he has to take care of his own arrangements, so there must be some incentive for the commission position. The Reeds’ mom said the fed cut is 20% for the JSF when it comes to ice shows. I can’t imagine it would be any lower for the Russian fed (or government). Maybe 10% only covers what’s exchanged directly between fed and skater, not between agencies/event organizers/etc. and fed, or the skaters are charged a separate “fee” which doesn’t count toward the 10%.

r287 They didn’t even mention Zhou reducing his quads for nationals after discussing Young You and their coach?

Who was the crazy fan who gave Medvedeva a t-shirt from Hanyu’s show?

I really don't think Dave and Jonathan pay much attention to men's skating at all. Last episode I saw they were pronouncing Vincent's last name as "Zoo".

R283 Well, I watched the interview. And unsurprisingly, Hanyu came out of nowhere along with boyfriend/ ideal type topic, exactly the way he has been dragged into her interview for years.

It's hard to find an interview with Med in which interviewer doesn't drag Hanyu along. It would be normal if they had asked her about FS related things like his technique, performances, programs... but instead they tie him with shipping stuffs, romantic rumours, bf/ ideal types topics.... Hanyu aside, I never have read any Japanese/ American interviews where they dig that deep into private matters and SNS bullshit like Russian ones. Maybe it's a cultural thing which I will never get.

R301, I think it's Medvedeva herself who welcomes this kind of stuff, otherwise she'd ask them to stop. But she welcomes this as a kind of publicity. She's not the only one, and FS is not a popular sport anyway so whatever works I guess

Yea, if Med didn't like it she would have shut them down long ago same as Alina did it to a Japanese interviewer.

R299

[quote] Maybe 10% only covers what’s exchanged directly between fed and skater, not between agencies/event organizers/etc. and fed, or the skaters are charged a separate “fee” which doesn’t count toward the 10%.

Since the rule specifies payments to the Skater, I suppose the feds could technically do this, but that seems violative of the spirit of the rule, especially if the "fee" is charged based on particular skaters participating (e.g., a big name, like Hanyu) or if the ice show organizers pay the fed fee by reducing payment to the skater. Also, if it's a separate fee that's arranged between the fed and the organizers, how would Reed's mother know it is? I wonder what she means by 20% - 20% of what, exactly?

[quote] Who was the crazy fan who gave Medvedeva a t-shirt from Hanyu’s show

I remember this person from PH. I didn't think she was a shipper, just a little awkward or naive. Then again, I didn't know there were Med/Hanyu shippers at the time. Who knew people thought that a Japanese recluse and a Russian famewhore who don't speak each other's languages would be good together.

Here is the Med interview, subbed. The Hanyu/TCC questions begin at 7:58

Q: "How do you feel about the fans who want you to be with Yuzuru Hanyu" A: [Shrugs] "This happens. And not only with me."

R299 Sorry, I misread your statement, are you thinking that the feds might charge skaters a separate fee on top of taking their 10% and that's how Reed's mom arrived at 20%? Like a flat fee for every show in which they participate? That would seriously suck and in my opinion, a violation of that rule, no matter what they choose to call the payment. An issue for the Athletes Commission reps to take up!

R304 r305 Yeah, that's what I mean. From a JT article, the Reeds' mom said: "They take 20 percent of the appearance fee when skaters take part in a show -- even if they had nothing to do with arranging it ." The JSF never corrected the article and it doesn't seem like Reed mom would blatantly lie about that.

News is reporting today that JOC president Takeda will likely be fired soon. Yesterday, he held what was supposed to be a 30-minute press conference with questions from press that ended up being a 7-minute, no-questions-allowed press conference that drew more criticism than support. Hopefully, Hashimoto won’t be taking his place, but the other likely successors are in their 70’s and she’s managed to survive despite other politicians being forced to resign for smaller offenses.

Kozuka debuted his new Misha Ge-choreographed program during one of his skating classes:

R306 If an adulterous, has-been tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see or hear it except a couple of random people at the mall, does it make a sound?

I know we've seen the 2018 Olys handholding thing a million times, but this video makes clear that Javi cockblocked Misha behind the curtains in order to get himself behind Hanyu in the first place. Well played, Javi, well played.

I would have asked Med why she likes shipping posts of her and Hanyu on SNS?

R309 He’s not the first, and he won’t be the last one I ship myself with @_@/

When will someone ship meeeee?

Feel bad for her - I think she actually had a crush on him, but didn't handle it well. She took his friendship as more...

Are the Kinerims in SoCal right now? I thought I ran into them at the local rink but couldn't be sure.

R313 Yes, in Irvine?

Yeah I thought I was seeing things lol. It was definitely them. Are they training there permanently? Sorry, I'm out of the loop and can't seem to find steady figure skating sources and gossip without having to trawl through eye-bleeding forums and giving up.

R315 I thought they moved to Sands and Meno after the split with Aljona. S/M Are based in Aliso Viejo IIRC

R315 They're now coached by Todd Sand and Jenni Meno. It's where Robin Szolkowy is moving to coach as well. Hopefully Savchenko will visit her old partner and make things super awkward.

I'm more astounded by the fact that they are actually/have actually(?) built the so called Great Park. That project's been like 2 decades in the making.

R316 They're now in Irvine, according to Robin's recent insta post.

Did Savchenko or the Knierims ever specify what went wrong? Just the training was too tough or Aljona was too busy?

I was wrong about Kozuka hiring Ge to choreograph a program for him for PIW. Ge approached him. According to Kozuka’s blog, Kozuka happened to be practicing at the same rink where Ge was teaching a camp and “like a random old man who happened to be passing by,” Ge started giving him advice and then choreographed a little something in the time he had left.

Three popular Zagitova fan accounts have been hacked. In a recent interview, Lazukin said his favorite skaters currently competing are Chen and Uno. Chen has stylish programs, is great at capturing the music, and better than Hanyu now. (He didn’t specify what he liked about Uno). Chan and Abbott for favorite retired skaters.

Entries at 4 Continents with Canada and USA still "TBD"

26 men: 3 USA, 3 Canada, 3 Japan, 3 Australia, 3 South Korea, 2 China, 2 Taiwan, 2 Hong Kong, 2 Malesia, 1 Kazakhstan, 1 Mexico, 1 Thailand

22 ladies: 3 USA, 3 Japan, 3 Canada, 3 South Korea, 2 Australia, 2 Hong Kong, 1 Brazil, 1 China, 1 Taiwan, 1 Kazakhstan, 1 Mexico, 1 Philippines

11 Pairs: 3 Canada, 3 USA, 2 China, 1 North Korea, 1 Japan, 1 Australia ** Sui/Han entered. No Yu/Zhang

12 Ice Dance: 3 USA, 3 Canada, 3 China, 2 Australia, 1 Japan

R319 They look good in that picture. No accounting for taste but I don't understand how anyone with eyes could think Nathan's skating is superior, especially the Nathan we've seen this season.

Or maybe he's just sore that someone from Hanyu's club called his girlfriend fat? Those chubby chasers can be so defensive!

R319 Savchenko said that it was her decision to split and that they had a difference of opinion regarding work ethic. (I've linked the German article on the split)

Raf is planning to move to the Irvine rink at the end of the season. Maybe he can help the Knierims with jumps.

R322 English translation: "Those lazy Americans aren't even worth the 15 minutes of Facetime I spend with them each day."

R321 Maybe he, like many other people can't get into Hanyu's skating, got disturbed by his poor postures. Sorry but no one can change my mind that Hanyu's upper body movement despite of having improved quite a bit is still weak ( especially when compared to his other areas like SS and jumps...).

R324 He specifically praised Nathan's ability to interpret music and his choreo. Does it matter if your programs are well choreographed when you drop most of the choreo and flail about stiffly while preparing for your jumps? Or are Nathan's programs so minimalist and avant-garde that we plebs just can't appreciate how much he's moving the sport forward with this new brand of artistry? Even Nathan's jump layout this year has been lazy as hell.

And please, spare me the argument that this season, Nathan needs to work on his spins, his ss, his transitions, jumping in a different place in the rink, skating to his music, performing the choreo that he's been given; but he's still superior because Hanyu needs to work on his posture and extending his foot.

R324 Sounds like you're playing devil's advocate, so to clarify, I'm not directing my ire at you. I just can't stand people who dismiss rival skaters over petty hangups while ignoring glaring issues with their own faves.

R325 Well, I was trying to give some speculative arguments which could be Lazuki's reasons for finding Nathan's skating more appealing, based on the truth that many people can't get into Hanyu's skating because of his poor postures. And wtf is that Chen's layout is lazy. I guess when he goes full force with all quads at Worlds and win only by high TES, his layout won't be lazy anymore. But I bet a lot of Hanyu fans won't like it.

And I won't talk to ubers and oversensitive people. So if you are one of them, let's admit so that I don't have to waste my time on you.

R327 I meant it's lazy because he jumps in the same fucking place. Nathan's jumps are ugly but most of the time I don't have an issue with his technique and his arsenal of jumps is undeniably impressive. I don't have any problems with Nathan winning if he gets the TES he deserves AND the PCS he deserves.

R319 What happened to the Zag fan accounts? Were untoward things written on them or were they just taken down? I've also heard about other Instagram fan accounts getting taken down in the past week or so, but I don't think they were hacked.

r328 aren't you the fan who saw him in Helsinki who was talking about how you KNOW him based on what your therapist tells you about yourself and KNOW everything he's going to do?

R331 No, unfortunately.

But when I don't skate well, I have boot problems

Great for Hanyu.

R327 poor "postures"?

Hate to break it to you but Nathan's hunched over posture is atrocious. So if you want to praise Chen and diss Hanyu, you need to come up with something better than that.

R335 Where did I praise Chen ?

R336 Please, you love Chen. You even tried to make the, "if he skated two clean programs at Olys..." argument. Loving Chen is fine, but just own it.

R327 "when he goes full force with all quads at Worlds and win only by high TES" You're forgetting that the TES also includes GOE, which Hanyu excels at. That's why Chen has never beaten his WRs even with all his quadZz and inflated PCs. And yeah, Chen's layout is lazy because it only consists of jumps between crossovers- I've watched his free program many times and I still can't find where his CHSQ is supposed to be.

And Chen's poor postures didn't make Hanyu's look any better.

R337 Oh yes I love him. But not as a skater.

r336 you replied to a post about why Lazukin likes Chen better than Hanyu, claiming that it might be because of Hanyu's "poor" posture. The obvious inference is that if one dislikes one skater for having poor posture then a skater he likes has good posture. r335 merely pointed out the obvious, which is that this doesn't make any sense since Chen's posture is atrocious.

r338 Yes, that highest GOE of the season choreo sequence. Anyone who actually watches the blades will miss it since it's almost entirely upper body movements.

R338 C'mon. Didn't you see how judges have fucked up GOEs scoring for years ? They just throw +4 +5 to all top contenders without hesistence. They gave Chen's stsq highest GOE. So far the GOEs Uno, Chen have got on all elements this season weren't any lower than Hanyu's.

r321 Tuk named Hanyu as one of her favorite skaters and Haw is more of a Uno and Chen fan (though Lazukin probably doesn’t know about that). I think Lazukin prefers the North American skating style given he also named Abbott and Chan. He also said he never wanted to skate like Plushenko. Something about being too young to understand or appreciate him.

R322 Thank you. I don’t know why I was under the impression that they left her.

R333 Wrong Chen!

R330 I’m not sure about the details, but a Russian article reported that according to IG, it was a planned, simultaneous hacking and they’re working to restore the three accounts, but may not get them back before Euros.

The full version of Zagitova’s Madoka commercial with Medvedeva (though they had to film separately with stand-ins for each other) finally just came out, so the timing is bad. An earlier version with just Zagitova was released right after the filming in August, which is why the commercial might seem familiar.

So who's excited for Canadian Nats!!!???

Will Veronik Mallet launch from semi-retirement to silver or will Larkyn Austman bring the pizzazzle and spoil her fun?

Will emerging bad boy Stephen Gogolev give Orser the finger on his way to the podium? Or will he quietly write "that fat bitch, Brian Orser" next to "former coach" in his ISU bio, in hopes that an eagle-eyed DLer will spot it?

See you all tomorrow!

Let me get this straight: a B-list skater dares to prefer someone over Hanyu and so the entire thread degenarets into juvenile squabbling over how that someone is absolutely not as good as Hanyu? We get it, Chen's not as good as Hanyu, we got it the first 10 times around.

R341 Because there are different types of poor postures and it could turn into a matter of taste at the end. People who can't get into Hanyu's skating because of his poor postures/ weak upper body movement aren't necessarily the ones who only enjoy skaters having good postures, which means the skaters they like aren't always supposed to be the one with good postures. I also never said Chen's posture better than Hanyu's. Everyone just acted as if I dismissed Hanyu and praised Chen.

R344 You know what we've heard 10 times already? Your constant bitching about other people's bitching. Stop trying to schoolmarm an unmoderated thread.

r346 Lol, sweets, if I feel like bitching, I will do so. That's exactly what unmoderated threads are for, I don't have to pretend everything's fine and dandy like the poor fucks on whatever forums. I see idiocy, I bitch about idiocy. But hey, I'm all for equal bitching, so go on with yours.

R347 Of course, when you bitch, it's because you're pointing out "idiocy" that everyone else has failed to recognize. When other people bitch, it's because they're a bunch of juveniles. Self-awareness, in addition to maturity, is definitely your strength.

Forget Canadian Nationals

we have SKATE HELENA this weekend in Belgrad

R349 OMG, there are 3 entrants in the men's category. Petr Gumennik is one of them.

Anyone know what's going on with Petr? He got sick and had to pull out of RusNats. One of my favorite juniors, but he's yet to have a break out moment.

The Referee, Mr. Matjaz KRUSEC, is obliged to do double-jobbing and being also Judge#1 at Skate Helena Senior events

R352 Nevermind him, I feel for the novice judges. There are 3 levels of novices (basic, intermediate, advanced). Within basic girls, there are 3 separate groups. In Basic Novices III Girls alone, there are 32 entrants; the other two groups have 27 and 28.

People who don’t like Hanyu’s “ feminine” skating are borderline homophobes. They hide behind “masculine” and “stiffer” skating is better for men. Weir suffered through this and now Hanyu Antis focus on his “loose upper extremities”. If you like your more “masculine” skaters that’s fine, but not giving props to what Hanyu does is questionable.

Streaming and schedule for Canadian Nats

I have no dog in the race but I think saying "poor posture" is equivalent to homophobia is a reach. "Loose upper extremities" doesn't mean feminine. You can have controlled balletic movements that are still fluid instead of flopping around. Just because we like Hanyu doesn't mean everyone needs to get their underpants in a twist when someone dares to say he could work on his posture. It's a well known fact that Hanyu's own coach said Hanyu's body control is a huge problem. Why can't we do a healthy criticism of someone without someone knee-jerk screaming about how the OTHER skater is WORSE?

Do not waste your time on calls for healthy criticism r356. We want dirt. Tell us about the Knierims.

r356 I wasn't screaming about how Chen is worse but pointing out the utter lack of logic in r336 's argument. Pretty sure r335 was saying the same. And r354 didn't event mention Chen, though I agree that equating posture criticism to homophobia is quite a stretch.

r342 Just a guess, but I think r333 was referring to when Nathan skated poorly at 2017 worlds. I think there were 1 or 2 other times that he's had boot issues though I can't remember off the top of my head.

R342 So Medvedeva didn't get a solo commercial? Not a single one features her without Zagitova.

R358 You didn't but others did. I brought up Hanyu's posture issue as something which could be unappealing to Lazuki. Immediately the thread turned into scream party how Chen's worse than Hanyu and ofc it wasn't me who started it, I didn't mentioned anything about Chen in ANY posts regarding to this topic. Also your argument that if one dislikes one skater for having poor posture then a skater he likes has good posture is problematic. In R345 I already explained why.

R360 I realize that I shouldn’t bother with a structured argument on someone like you, but I’m going to walk through the sequence of events in hopes that other people get it.

1. R324 you made an illogical argument for why Lazukin might like Chen more than Hanyu

2. R325 pointed out that Lazukin specifically stated that the aspects of Chen’s skating that he liked had nothing to do with your illogical argument

3. R327 r328 You respond emotionally with more statements that have nothing to do with the topic.

4. R335 points out that your argument in r324 doesn’t make sense.

5. R339 you make another statement that dodges the points that everyone is making

5. r340 I concur with r335 and explain why Chen came up, though I know perfectly well that you know

I didn’t acknowledge r345 because it was obvious bullshit to backpedal after you got called out on your original bullshit by multiple people. No one who is genuinely that hung up on posture is going to dislike one skater for having slightly rounded shoulders then stan the hunchback. I’ve criticized Hanyu’s landing positions in the past, but you don’t see me following that up by praising Elvis Stojko’s landings to high heavens.

Most of the reaction has been to your disingenuousness, which someone else has also pointed out. (also, you mentioned Chen several times and you were responding to a statement comparing Chen and Hanyu so you expressing dismay about it coming up just makes you look stupid)

The likelihood is that r342 is right in that Lazukin just prefers the N. American style since that’s what all 3 skaters he named have in common.

and btw, I'm sure you're reaction is to go to the tired old "where did I praise Chen" statement.

I feel like I'm using the words "obvious" and "illogical" to death but unfortunately I keep having to point it out. People are obviously referring to your past statements on Chen and are making the connection between your uberdom and your original illogical statement

R361 Thank you. How would you describe the N. American way of skating? I guess I've never considered Uno's way of skating as N. American, so I'm curious.

r363 Of course there's a lot of variance, but in general, I would say that our skaters tend to have a more straightforward style.

Those who like it, will call it clean and "purist".

Those who don't, will call it boring and simplistic.

To be honest, I never thought of Uno as having a N. American style either until this discussion. Perhaps I was influenced by the costumes and the Takahashi comparisons though I can see the argument for both.

Nathan's style sort of morphs as the season goes on. I actually find Nathan's choreographic strategy the last couple years to be very smart. He starts out with more intricate choreography and an easier layout then once the PCS baseline gets established with the judges, he strips the programs down to focus on the jumps. The more romantic fans get angry at his marks, but from a competitive standpoint it makes sense.

R334 Nice that Hanyu was nominated, but McMorris should win. His injury was horrific. It was unclear whether he could even walk again.

r365 Not sure how the voting process goes, but don't these things generally just go to the biggest names? Have no clue about anyone other than Hanyu's situation, but I would think someone like Tiger Woods would win.

If it's based on actual credentials, I would think it would be a combination of the seriousness of the injury, the magnitude of the moment, and the dominance in the return.

I doubt Hanyu is going to win but it's great that a figure skater is recognized in such a big event for all sports.

And to close my night, I leave you with some ass. I'm not generally a fan of the hydroblade, but with our talented photographers I'm learning to appreciate it.

R365 that's a great description of the arc of Nathan's programs. I never thought of it as strategic, but you may be right.

Where does Chan fit in all of this? I think his skating was beautiful, and I never saw him as being from the same tradition as the typical N. American skater. I've never understood how someone who liked Chan could move to someone like Chen.

R366 Did Tiger come back from getting whacked by his wife with a golf club?

I love the way Brian is looking at Johnny Weir, who's apparently revealing Yuzuru's R&J2 costume design to him for the first time. Wonder what he was thinking?

What are those Japanese commercials even selling? I watched them all and I can't figure it out.

R361 Well, before you claim my R345 is bullshit, can you give me a reason why there are people who dislike Miyahara's skating because her jump technique saying that her small jumps destroyed the performance but have no problem with Uno whose jump technique is as bad as her ? Why are there people who complained about Konstantinova's posture but then enjoy Zagitova, Medvedeva whose posture isn't better than her ? Other than my reason that there are different types of poor posture and it might end up being a matter of taste ?

Ooooff I think you mean people who genuinely hang up on posture ? But then I didn't say Lazuki is that obsessed to posture.

Who the fuck is "Lazuki"? Andrei LazuKIN is a Russian skater.

RR372 Should I send a message to him and say sorry ?

R368, thank you for posting in this thread anything other than the great Hanyu vs Chen posture debate, I was bored af scrolling down this thread. That is a great pic never seen it before, Brian is probably thinking 'i cant wait for them to stop filmin so I can have a good laugh about this costume'. Altho, to be fair, brian had some super silly costumes himself. Oh and thats not my opinion btw, I love the rj2 costume myself, although the unfinished version in that pic looks meh, but the finished product is gorgeous

like this one

R375: Get the hell off the internet

I don't see a six pack, Brian.

R375 that's worse than anything Yuzuru has EVER worn. I love it though lol

R369 I think Med and Zag are doing promo for an anime.

I haven't had a chance to listen to it, but the new Icetalk (Jackie Wong's podcast) has Brezina and Fernandez.

R380 Fernandez says he's doing his SP from 3 years ago, so Malaguena or Black Betty, I guess. Brezina's fed wants him to keep going until one of the more junior skaters can take his place. I like Brezina; hope he wins.

I really like Jackie as an interviewer - knowledgeable and is able to ask questions that are suggestive, but not unprofessional. I can see how some fans might prefer Dave and his gossipy style, but I don't understand why any skater or coach would want to go on Dave's show. Nobody comes out looking their best.

That said, Fernandez and Brezina are bores as interviewees, so I don't know that this IceTalk was that interesting.

Javi's gonna love this gif of him wanting Yuzu's ass. Time for another French kissing on the beach picture (with him and a woman, not with Eric).

Ladies short at Canadian Nationals (Gabby's video is at the top at link to Jackie Wong site)

1. Gabrielle Daleman - 70.18 2. Larkyn Austman - 64.53 3. Veronik Mallet - 60.55 4. Alison Schumacher - 60.10 5. Alaine Chartrand - 59.22 6. Aurora Cotop - 58.98 7. Aislinn Ganci - 54.92 8. Michelle Long - 54.76 9. Emy Decelles - 54.62 10. Emily Bausback - 54.61 11. Olivia Gran - 52.39 12. Sarah-Maude Blanchard - 50.27 13. Helene Carle - 49.86 14. Jane Gray - 46.92 15. Sarah Tamura - 45.50 16. Madison Moore - 44.17 17. Beatrice Lavoie-Leonard - 43.98

Gabrielle Daleman - 3T3T, 2A, 3Lz(hangs on)

r383 There used to be a time when Chartrand was my fav Canadian.

r368 He's trying to kill Johnny with his eyes for committing that costume.

r370 I don't recall anybody here ever was saying Miyahara's small jumps ruined her programs. It's always " lower her TES, raise her PCS". But then I sometimes manage to block the stupid so I may have missed it.

I really liked Alison Schumacher's short - her hands were very pretty and her jumps looked strong to me. Tracy said she had had beautiful long programs this year (her first year on the senior circuit) but had a lot of problems with the short - but this one was clean. There was a video of Yuzu pretty recently and a girl was skating in the foreground who people thought was Med but it was Alison. Wonder who she "belongs to" - Brian or Lee or Karen? You never know these days. And who is Gabby working with? Well, I guess Lee, since she gave him a long, tight hug at the end of her short. Welcome back, Gabby! I wish she could pull it together and make a comeback (beyond this - she's in position to repeat as Canadian champion in this comp.

Canada needs these girls -- bad! The whole continent does. I think I saw Kaetlyn Osmond in the stands with some Asian guy (her coach?) - she didn't have on stage makeup (if it was her), so I'm not sure. They cut to her during or right after Gabby's skate.

I looked up Alison - 5’0” - born Nov 22, 2002, so just turned 16 – coached by Lee Barkell – former coaches Jen Jackson, Yuka Sato

Here are links to Ladies SP 1-4.

Poor Chartrand. One of her many ex-coaches was Brian Orser! She fell on her 3Lz. I liked all four of the top Canadians but this 22-year-old may be headed to the end, after just missing the Olys. She has an elegance about her but looks like she chokes a lot. At least she's going to uni, getting ready to move on.

R382. Omg. His ass is so beautiful!

R367 In the figure skating circle, Chan's skating style is viewed as the best of the North American style of skating. Strength, cleanness, and speed. It's all about the feet. The Russian style of skating is seen as the opposite end of that, but I don't have the vocabulary to describe it well. Hanyu talked about how he learned the Russian way during his camps in teenage years and is now excited to learn the North American way, but also said he didn't want to copy Chan (whom he was looking up to as the Endgame Boss) and wanted to create his own style. His skating skills are viewed as closer to the Russian type.

Your Friday night entertainment brought by TCC.

Oh, and the North American style of skating is more palatable to men whose masculinity is threatened by figure skating.

PIW Nagano starts today (@princeiceworld): Arakawa, Takeshi Honda, all Honda sisters, Ando, Oda, Kozuka, Murakami, and Higuchi.

Kihira is already in Colorado. Check Pulkinen’s twitter @CamdenPulk for 3As.

Costume designer Tomoko Yasuno (@yasunotomoko) is having an exhibition in Omotesando right now. You can see Zagitova’s Madoka costume, as well as many of Mao’s dresses on display.

First, they compared Hanyu to Da Vinci. Now they’re going to compare Uno to Van Gogh… for Fuji TV’s 5-minute program, “The Beauty.”

r304 Sorry, I missed the second part of your comment. I remember someone here saying that the fan was a known shipper and had a twitter that indicated the same.

r358 I completely forgot about worlds. I guess it’s safe to assume that almost everyone has had boot problems affect their jumps, but Karen’s crazy boot war still takes the cake.

R366 “The nominees are voted for by over 1000 media from 70 countries.” The Laureus Academy members then vote for the winners.

R383 Daleman is doing really well considering her break from the season.

R359 I would be surprised if a Med-only version doesn’t come out. Still, the momentum has kind of been lost. Zagitova’s solo version aired shortly after filming and was a big hit, while it’s taken months to see these new commercials and they haven’t received much attention outside figure skating. A lot of the FS attention is due to many misinterpreting the commercial as some kind of truce or PR move (not that there’s any bad blood), not realizing that the girls didn’t film together and may have agreed to the commercials before the coaching change.

R379 It’s for the “Magia Record” video game based on the popular anime, Madoka Magica. They’re portraying two main characters: Zagitova is Madoka Kaname and Med is Homura Akemi.

Photos of Zag and Med with stunt double:

Gorgeous Conrad Orzel had a good skate - he's first with six more to come.

Conrad Orzel - 82.87 (46.81, 36.06) 4T, 3Lz3T(hangs on), 3A

Conrad Orzel 82.87, Joseph Phan 76.35, Iliya Kovler 68.24 lead;

final 6 on the ice: Bennet Toman, Stephen Gogolev, Nicolas Nadeau, Roman Sadovsky, Nam Nguyen, Keegan Messing

Men’s short (FINAL) 1. Stephen Gogolev - 88.77 (51.05, 37.72) 2. Keegan Messing - 87.18 (45.04, 43.14, -1.00) 3. Nam Nguyen - 85.73 (44.88, 40.85) 4. Conrad Orzel - 82.87 (46.81, 36.06) 5. Roman Sadovsky - 82.10 (41.52, 40.58) 6. Joseph Phan - 76.35 (41.10, 36.25, -1.00) 7. Nicolas Nadeau - 70.16 (31.01, 39.15) 8. Bennet Toman - 69.31 (34.30, 36.01, -1.00) 9. Iliya Kovler - 68.24 10. Alexander Lawrence - 65.83 11. Laurent Guay - 62.60 12. Zoe Duval-Yergeau - 60.99 13. Eric Liu - 60.33 14. Dustin Sherriff-Clayton - 58.63 15. Max Denk - 57.29 16. Samuel Turcotte - 57.16 17. Matthew Markell - 52.23 18. Brian Le - 51.18

Keegan fell on his quad toe. Sadovsky tried two quads and really messed up the second - turned it into a single (4S(ur?)3T, 1T(ftdwn)*, 3A(turn), but Tracy went on and on about how great his skating skills, elegance, and spins were. She played down pipsqueak Stephen I thought, mentioning how much slower he was than the other guys. It was nice to see Nam so happy - they said it was like he used to be. I think they said he hitched a ride to the competition with a couple of fans? I had read somewhere that he had to work now to pay for his training and it was a struggle. Tracy was very pro-Nam too, saying his new coach has worked wonders hmmm.

Nice to hear about Nam. That kid has had a rough few years.

Tracy said Nam lost the will to go on skating for a while. She was glad to see he had it back. (I don't know if she meant it was because he just missed going to the Olys by one point - I think she said that too but I don't know if it was in relation to him sort of giving up for awhile)

At least at the moment, Conrad Orzel's short program is the first video at Jackie Wong's site and it's so beautiful! I don't understand why he didn't score higher.

I was watching the GP series and noticed that a lot of Canadian male skaters seem to like wearing suit-like combos. Sweaters. Vests. Sweater vests. Ties. To "jazzy" kind of music. Then I remember Orser trying to get Med to do a female version of that and wonder... is this a Canadian thing? I want to be excited for them but the moment I see a sweater vest combo I get bored.

Linked is a cute baby-faced photo of Yuzuru (in his Otonal blue top) with this provocative comment by a fan (or is this sort of thing usual in Japan?)

Today I went to Mr. Nobuaki Tanaka’s photo lecture (figure skater’s photographer). As usual, it shows a lot of Yuzu season p hotos not posted in magazines, etc. Rather than saying a lecture, Mr. Tanaka talks about love of Yuzu totally in the same position as ours (fan’s eyes….like a fandom).

“Cute, YABAI, wonderful, incredible, cool, beautiful” … He always uses a laser pointer and strokes Yuzu’s buttocks and tells how much he loves Yuzu LOL

If Japanese fandom is anything like, well, fandom anywhere, there's going to be creepy fans that feel entitled to stalking and fondling and baby-talking their idol.

R401 I noticed it too. I tend to blame David White - but apparently Sandra Bezik was in on that monstrosity they had Med skating to - would have been a good number on a 1950s variety show. I know it's more recent but it has that 50s-60s Doris Day/Rosemary Clooney vibe.

For the men, the godawful Sinatra shit plus Elvis, Charlie Chaplin, Buble' trying to be Tony Bennett... Even Beatles medleys make me feel sick. I guess the Simon & Garfunkel thing was ok but 1967? Is there nothing suitable from, uh, maybe the last 30 years (instead of 60 years? or really, the 1920s with Chaplin - are young people really familiar with Chaplin's films?)

Maybe most judges are elderly - that's all I can figure. Johnny Weir was complaining about AC/DC but really - that's seems to be one of the few "modern" pieces in the whole of skating. I think Kolyada did a program to Muse. (but just last season, tired old Elvis....) This sport is stuck in the past, music wise. To watch a comp, you have to get ready to cringe a lot.

R403 - I think I was confusing - it was the photographer giving the lecture that shocked me (not the fan reporting it). He stroked Yuzu's buttocks with his laser pointer while talking about how much he loves him? That part seemed odd - I'm assuming it was some sort of scheduled exhibit of his photographs - maybe I'm not understanding the venue.

Interview at Rostelecom in November 2018 - translated from Russian (I guess Raf wasn't kidding when he told Yuzuru he was a fan and asked for his autograph at Pyeongchang):

Q: Rafael, how can you evaluate Yuzuru Hanyu’s performance?

Arutyunyan: I’ll begin not from today’s skating. I’ll begin with many people calling Hanyu another planet’s figure skater, a sportsman that descended from heaven. He has awesome abilities, which he embodies where he needs to – on the ice.

Q: Perhaps it is also thanks to his Canadian coach Brian Orser and the choreographer who’s working with him.

Arutyunyan: And also them. But in the main, it's his own talent. But aside from all this, there’s something special in Hanyu: his ability to be beautiful not only on the ice. He has his own way of conducting himself which his team are unlikely able to suggest. Maybe the secret is his parents’ genes.

Q: But his father and mother are very common/simple people.

Arutyunyan: There is something else, that was given to him by a higher/supreme being.

Q: From God?

Arutyunyan: Exactly. Someone, maybe, will win over Yuzuru on the ice. But he is inimitable in life.

Hanyu actually thanks and show appreciation to his coaches. NHK 2015, record breaker, and he bowed to Orser, raised his arms up and gave him tons of props. He’s pretty consistent in showing appreciation when he performs well, and when he doesn’t then less so because he takes the blame. I bet Arutyunyan is a bit jealous.

That sounds weirdly passive aggressive lol. Just because western skaters don't have the culture of bowing and exaggeratedly raising their arms in a theatrical way at the cameras doesn't mean they don't show appreciation to their coaches. Everyone's different.

We know the secret is not in his genes - it's in his jeans.

R408 Hanyu raised Orsers arms at NHK. Not sure why you’re so sensitive. His level of outward appreciation isn’t just cultural. Not all Japanese skaters do the same and some Western skaters do show affection and hug their coaches and others do show some gratitude to their coaches. Hanyu just does this more consistently.

Iirc there was an interview with a coach that said when Western skaters aren’t doing well they switch their coaches more than European and Russians and that’s why they coach hop so much. I’m not saying this is a bad thing and of course it’s a generalization. From Raf’s perspective as a coach, watching an athlete show that much appreciation for his coach is probably refreshing.

Coughlin has killed himself yesterday

Well if Coughlin was innocent in any way, he wouldn't have done that. So good riddance, I say.

Suicide is always sad. RIP. But now I’m even more curious what the allegations were.

Yes what did he do

"We are shocked and saddened by the unexpected passing of John Coughlin, Chair of the ISU Athletes Commission and member of the ISU Single & Pair Skating Technical Committee. In the name of the ISU family, we herewith want to share our heartfelt condolences and kindest thoughts with John's family and friends in this time of sorrow."

Holy shit. What a horrible situation all around.

R412 we don't even know what the charges are or what the evidence is. Not saying that's what happened here, but innocent people kill themselves all the time when faced with charges they can't disprove or they feel unproven allegations themselves will ruin their lives.

[R412] Yes, innocent people do give up when faced with allegations they can't disprove, but I think that would occur after a longer period of time trying to disprove them. This came to light in mid-December when the notification was made on Safesport and when I first saw it mentioned on a skating forum. That's only a month. I think it's more likely that there is truth to the allegations and he couldn't deal with the prospect of the details coming to light and the ramifications of that and how it would affect his family and his career. Very sad.

I think he must have been facing some serious mental issues, depression maybe. This is an extreme reaction, innocent or not.

Canadians Nats Ladies

1) Chartrand

2) Aurora Cotop

3) Véronik Mallet

Daleman 5th

Gabby's reaction to her bad skate makes me think she's just wasn't ready to come back mentally.

Gabby's scores were a little harsh imo.

R412, to me Coughlin's suicide isn't necessarily an admission of guilt. I'll reserve judgment either way until we know more about the case.

It was sad to see Gabby Daleman have such a rough skate. When did she start training again? She looked out of shape and like she just ran out of gas halfway through the program. I was surprised she got such low scores. I really thought Skate Canada would try to keep her on the podium. If she's mentally up for it, she could be ready for worlds with a couple of intense months of training.

Fantastic comeback for Chartrand and a well-deserved win.

Coughlin could have killed himself because the allegations were true, or he could have killed himself because he felt his life was over because of false allegations. To speculate either way at this point is very premature.

Cotop hasn't competed Senior yet. So she can't do 4CCs.

She still has time for attempting to get the minimum for Worlds.

R410 that sounds way too much like projecting, like that one person who claims that because their therapist calls them sad and depressed cuz they cry a lot Hanyu must be depressed as well. Did Raf ever say he has a problem with skaters not appreciating him? It's kind of a stretch to assume that he's envious of Hanyu's coaches because he's jealous of appreciative skaters just based on what some other people have said about their own experiences and mere speculation about skaters' individual attitudes that we know nothing about. I agree that Hanyu's hand raising is not cultural but it's obviously performative and not everyone is performative in that manner. Gossip and speculation is one thing but this is way too many assumptions about too many people.

I feel like there must have been a fair amount of evidence against Coughlin for it to get to the point it did. I hope the whole story does come out eventually (without naming the alleged victim/s) because otherwise it's just too easy to assume the very worst. And also so that hopefully this situation does not repeat itself.

R426 Raf has talked about how coaches don’t get credit for their work. He called coaches “passengers” when they sit with new coaches when other coaches have “really” taught them. He talked about it in the context of other coaches “clinging” to top skaters, like Ashley Wagner then went on a tirade about lack of credit given to the right coaches. He also talked about when Nathen almost left him, and although he was a kid at the time, he thought the adults should have decency on how its handled. So yes, in many ways, he talks about how coaches (which he is one) are not always treated right.

(Raf talking about Ashley Wagner) You know she has enough money, if she raised her hand and said ‘I’m free’ a million of “passengers” will come to her. After all, we have different coaches. Some are responsible for what they do. Others – “passengers”. You know, skater is like a rocket flies upwards, and they cling to this rocket. So, I told her, ‘There is plenty who wants to cling to you and to sit with you in the Kiss-and-cry corner’, which I honestly hate.

Why do you hate it?

– Because not always there is sitting the one who raised an athlete. The work is done by one and the other is sitting there. Trained for a month and sat down. And for the one, who coached for six years, it remains only to tell as much as possible, that it’s his merit. But the visual analyzer is stronger than hearing. People see the inscription, see the person sitting in the “Kiss-and-cry” – and they have an entirely different picture. Do I need to explain them that everyone has his own understanding of decency? And how can I judge this person if this is normal for him? There are people who train themselves to do bad things. And after some time, these things become the norm for them. It’s ok for them to take athletes in two years before the Olympic Games, cling to them, as to the rocket – and fly up to the paradise.

Since we have moved to the hottest topic of the season, you can answer a direct question – did Nathan Chen leave your group? In the broadcast from Paris titres reported that his coach is Marina Zueva.

– Before the grand-prix in Paris, he called me and said: I’ll see you here, we’ll talk. I said – okay, if you’re going to announce a change of coach, warn me, please. There I was approached by representatives of the media center and reported that Zueva asked them to change the name of the coach in the protocol. They asked – who is still his coach? I’m such kind of person who won’t look after someone and ask ‘Did you do an official announcement or not?’ So I answered: ask him. I doubt they actually asked him. He’s a child, he’s only 17 years old. He came here with four quads to try them all. I don’t think he’s interested in playing this games. I think the responsibility in such cases is on us, the adults, on our decency.

Last group of men at Canadian Nationals starting right now

Nam Nguyen wins (cleanish), Gogo silver (popped the opening quad), a very messy Messing third. It's really surprising to see Messing fucking up that Chaplin program again and again. after he did such a good job with it past season. Maybe it's the missing 30 secs. Out of the top 3 my fav was actually Gogo tonight, but some od lower placing guys had their mokents.

Phan and Sadovsky, and to lesser degree Messing, have a very good ass spin!

Redemption for Nam! Now a 2-time Canadian champ. Nice moment after his skate and just before Keegan's when the guys hugged each other. And before that, Keegan pounded the boards in happiness for Nam. They also showed Brian congratulating him and his coach giving him a bear hug. I really wanted Orzel and Phan to podium - Sadovsky too. I like these guys. And I had no idea the ladies winner Alaine Chartrand was married to Kevin Reynolds.

Congrats to Nam!!!

None of them skated their best but I'm so happy for Nam. Gogo will have his day soon. Good to see him learning to recover after the pop at the beginning. I think same thing happened at jgpf.

Kevin and Alaine are definitely an unexpected pairing.

Gogo looks different?!?!?

R434 is it the growth spurt?

TSL 19 Jan - Guest “Jen” - about John Coughlin suicide –Jen is an “elite cheerleading coach.” She’s there to talk about “SafeSport” who are investigating JC. She grew up in figure/roller skating (1993-99) and JC was also involved in roller skating when she was. 4.15 Two weeks ago Dave posted allegations and he's stunned by backlash. Dave's really shaken up - he said JC had been on his show/was so beloved/now his friends and fans are attacking Dave about what Dave posted, which he said was just like what he had done in the Nasser case (gymnastics), and some other guy nearby in a similar situation (Andrew Laverick - some name like that.) He and Christine Brennan are getting messages like, “you’ve got blood on your hands”. 9 Jen says part of grooming process (in whatever sport) is to be charming so she’s heard this before (that abuser was a great guy etc.) In this case, like others at SafeSport, Jen said allegations have to go through 6, 7, 8 channels before anything becomes public. 11.30 She said “many interviews” have been held on this case. So “we have corroboration", before elevation to suspension. 13 Dave: Same thing happened to Andrew Laverick a week or two ago. (when such an elevation happened, a mass email telling all coaches about a suspension goes out) 14.30 Coughlin case was brought to SafeSport’s attention in mid-Oct when someone made a complaint, and during investigation, someone contacted Jen to interview her about John. 18 SafeSport is a panel of nine, and this is not a witchhunt but a slow careful process. 19.30 She blames ISU, USFSA, for trying to keep this one quiet because he was an ISU official and beloved guy among skaters. 22.30 Dave talked about a police report involved here. 27 Jen says both skating and gymnastics tend to have narcissistic abusive parents which makes their children vulnerable to abuse 29 Dave talks about the on-going culture in skating of young girls like age13 in rel’ships w/men in late 30s, an "inside secret" and widespread thing. 32.30 Jen said she (and all females) in pairs have always been told to shut up and take it, whatever it is, because you need the guy more than he needs you (her parents told her this); then Dave talks about coaches having pool parties at their house for the male skaters (they're desperate to keep the guys - the girls are replaceable) and he brings up skaters living in their coaches homes and should that be looked into 41 Parents tend to be in complete denial about inappropriate rel'ships. 44 JC had a clinic in Dec with Gracie while he was under investigation and it was undisclosed 47 No one told JC he couldn’t defend himself and talk about this except his own counsel.

R436: That’s a lot to process, Tsl troll. The skaters have to know about the safe sport process. Will this lead to more accusations?

I’m glad they mentioned parent complicity and that women have no value in skating.

Oh , who is having these pool parties.

Yeah I know - I almost didn't post it but since I'd listened and took notes I figured what the hell. It's a grim subject - and like they brought up at the end, it's sad it will take the focus off skating, skaters will be put on the spot about it by interviewers, etc. OTOH, if it changes the dark side of the culture, maybe there's a silver lining. They both made it sound like parents want successes and if that means handing your child over to, well, whoever, whatever, then so what - it's worth it. That part's kinda sick. They need to make it easier to report, even if it's the kid who wants to - I think in the past, they were like slaves sometimes (to parents' ambition and corrupt coaches/partners' abuse)

Oh yeah - I thought they were gonna go in a new direction with the pool party thing - like coaches abusing boys but it seemed mostly focused on abuse of girls (though Jen did say it could be either gender as the abuser and either one as the victim). I think we might have an idea of which coach has his skaters living in the house with him ahemm. (they also said different countries have different ideas about what's ok so maybe in Swi... well you know)

R436 I watched the whole segment and basically your summary covers it. I'm glad Dave did a segment on this, but that guest was mostly useless. Her so called expertise is based on the fact that SafeSport interviewed her and since she was last in Coughlin's circles 20 years ago, she thinks they must be doing a thorough investigation. That's useful to know, but you have to watch an hour's worth of her interrupting Dave when he's about to say something interesting, talking about her kids, and laughing inappropriately throughout to get all of that. I don't agree with how many in the skating community seem to be going after people who are bringing up these allegations, but this woman is nuts if she thinks that Coughlin should have spoken out publicly while this was all unfolding, against advice of counsel.

For those who watched, am I getting this right - is she arguing for transparency on one hand (for example, that Coughlin should have just come clean and responded to the allegations), and on the other saying that the details of what happened shouldn't be revealed (she says as a mother, she wouldn't want such details about her own daughters to be made public). That seems inconsistent to me, but I don't know if I'm misunderstanding her. That's why these things are so awful for the victims. They have to give the details so the accused knows the charges against them and can appropriately respond. That's how due process works.

Mervin Tran had the most nuanced reaction to all of this. If the allegations are true, I feel bad for the victim(s) who have to see everyone rally around Coughlin without acknowledging that there might have been another side to him and for those who might now feel responsible for what happened.

R439 LOL I thought of our favorite gluten free avocado tart baker as well.

Yeah, the laughter was awful - I guess she was nervous. And the giggling about the jokes they made about poor Nancy Kerrigan - wearing a t-shirt that said skating club (with a picture of an actual club used to hit someone) - it's like if she thinks something is bad, it's bad - but hey, let's make fun of a physical assault because that's just a joke. Really freaky!! But I think he was desperate to defend himself and the process and needed an "insider" and she was the best he could get.

Speaking of Dave Lease, last week he said he found Eteri's real Instagram - and on it, she posted a video of a short program by one of her students, Kamila Valieva, which was the best short program she had ever seen. Here's a link. Look out Trusova, Scherbakova, Kostornaia...

R441 That kid is amazing, loved the spins especially. She's only 12, so by 2022 she will be ready to play 15-year-old-spoiler to the by then geriatric wunderkinds of today.

She was born in April 2006 - so that means she'll turn 15 in 2021, before the July 1st deadline - doesn't that mean she could compete in seniors in the 2021-2022 season? And if my arithmetic is right, she'd be eligible for the 2022 Olympics in Beijing? Like the British uncles said of young Yuzuru, wrap her up in cotton wool - if she could stay healthy, we could be looking at the future. I love her spins too, and her arms and hands - and the way she just floats up into the jumps effortlessly.

I found the TSL episode odd rather than illuminating (of course there had to be something serious if they moved to interim suspension, of course they have been investigating long before it was made public). However, I'm confused - the woman said she was last at OTC 19 years ago. I wonder why they were investigating from the time he was 13-14?

It was odd. She was odd.

Dave said he and she had been talking earlier and she told him that SafeSport had a nine-person panel. She didn't seem to like it that he revealed that she had said that - but I assume from that that she has some kind of knowledge of how SafeSport is organized and how they do their investigations. If you're just an interviewee, how would you know that detail?

I think she made the point that they must be thorough because they had tracked down who, in his life, had had the same coaches, worked in the same place, overlapped in some way - and the fact that they went all the way back to her must mean they were very diligent. Oh I don't know... maybe this will help him as damage control. People do seem to be over-reacting against him and Brennan.

R445 Why are people threatening Lease and Brennan? Because they are bringing up the abuse allegations?

Yes - I think it was two weeks ago that Dave wrote (on TSL Facebook page?) that there was an investigation into Coughlin. People are blaming him for bringing attention to it. But he said parents had the right to know and if anybody dug a bit, they could find the information - he was just making it more public.

But the suicide seems triggered by what happened in the last two days, not two weeks ago - SafeSport raising the level of the investigation to "interim suspension". How would Lease (and Brennan) have had any effect on SafeSport deciding to do that?

r402 Interestingly, she didn’t include any of that creepy talk in the Japanese part of her comment. She just talked about how excited she’d been for the lecture and went home right after because she had work the next day. The Japanese commenters didn’t respond to the creepy English part, so they probably didn’t even notice it. I think she was exaggerating about the stroking for comedic effect for her English-speaking friends. Tanaka gives lectures all of the time and this one wasn’t specifically about Hanyu, but about figure skating photography in general.

R436 So the public didn’t even know about the allegations until two months after the investigation started when Brennan and TSL mentioned it? The investigation is already 3 months old? The silence from the victims makes it doubtful that the allegations were just some kind of vendetta or smear campaign. I'm actually surprised how little attention Coughlin's case received from the media until his suicide.

Re parents and silences on abuses

Parents were shamed also in the abuse scandal in the 90s in some German rink. It was more on physical abuses (there were sexual abuse accusations too ).

The coach was convicted. 20 years later he is still coaching and getting accreditation for Olympics as German and Czech Feds don't seem to care.

R449 That's ridiculous that the coach is still working. When we look back at these abuse scandals, we're always astounded by how the abusers get away their crimes for so long. But seeing the way these communities rally around and protect their own members, the parents who look the other way, the power imbalances, it's easy to see how.

I don't understand people going after TSL and Brennan for just reporting that Coughlin was under investigation. That was a matter of public record. They weren't peddling rumors. Seems clear to me that Dave and a few people in the skating world know what the rumors are though (Mervin Tran mentioned knowing the alleged victim in his statement).

Here is the message that Rohene Ward left for TSL: "Omg!!!! Yet another bad example of what you are trying to do for the sport and what you actually do. Its disguesting and sad the way you disregard all the energy and work that people put in to their careers day in and day out. You should evaluate your purpose of this site and maybe find another hobby!!!"

[quote] That's ridiculous that the coach is still working. When we look back at these abuse scandals, we're always astounded by how the abusers get away their crimes for so long. But seeing the way these communities rally around and protect their own members, the parents who look the other way, the power imbalances, it's easy to see how.

he got a 2 years sentence commuted into a 3 years probation. And a professional ban for 3 years. A 25,000 marks compensation for the 2 girls who made the accusations.

In delivering the verdict, the judge said something on the lines ""I hope that some parents sleep worse now"

this is a 2 pages account of that case....in German but it is understandable with a google translation.

If the culture they are describing is true, it’s gonna be a hella mess.

R442 r443 exactly! When it comes to Russian women skaters we need to look at their 12 year olds to find the next Zagitova. The current 14-15yr olds likely won’t be around by 2022.

r441 The girl is great but that program is just another in the long line of Daniil's personality-devoid dirges. How can it be Eteri's favorite when it's exactly the same as two dozen others.

Canada selection

WORLDs

Nam Nguyen

Keegan Messing

Alaine Chartrand

Lady TBD after 4CCs

Lady TBD after 4CCs

Kirsten Moore-Towers / Michael Marinaro

Evelyn Walsh / Trennt Michau

Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje

Piper Gilles / Paul Poirier

Laurence Fournier Beaudry / Nikolaj Sørensen

4 CONTINENTS

Nam Nguyen

Keegan Messing

Nicolas Nadeau

Alaine Chartrand

Véronik Mallet

Larkyn Austman

Kirsten Moore-Towers / Michael Marinaro

Evelyn Walsh / Trennt Michaud

Camille Ruest / Andrew Wolfe t

Kaitlyn Weaver / Andrew Poje

Piper Gilles / Paul Poirier

Laurence Fournier Beaudry / Nikolaj Sørensen

JUNIOR WORLDS

Stephen Gogolev

Joseph Phan t

Alison Schumacher

Brooke McIntosh / Brandon Toste

Gabrielle Levesque / Pier-Alexandre Hudon t

Marjorie Lajoie / Zachary Lagha

Alicia Fabbri / Paul Ayer

So the losters basically are Sadovsky and Orzel

I'm really enjoying the Canadian panic over how their ladies will place at Worlds.

r455 I thought that the TBD lady was to give Daleman a second chance, but she's not going to 4CCs.

r466 Sadovsky was below Nadeau so that's not a surprise, but Orzel was above him so yeah, he was kinda screwed over by not getting a 4CC spot. Orzel should switch to Poland and get himself a forever spot at Europeans. Now that I think of it, is Sadovsky of Polish ancestry too? Maybe they could both switch.

R458 Orzel hasn't done Senior competitions. So no minimum TES. Same with Phan.

They went with Nationals results for both Senior and Junior

Orzel was basically fighting Phan for the second Junior Worlds spot

I guess if Daleman wants it and all other ladies in contention perform awfully at 4CCs (and there is a good chance for it to happen), Daleman will go to Worlds

Moreover, Cotop and Austman don't have minimum TES for Worlds yet either

r459 Thank's for the explanation. Odd that Orzel didn't do the ACI for example.

Looks like TSL deleted their video. WTF if going on. Dave, we are all a bunch of anonymous assholes. Please don’t do anything drastic.

R462 Maybe I missed it, but we didn't criticize Dave or the fact he covered this topic, just the guest. I think it's the people directly sending him threats and posting messages on TSL SNS that's stressing him out.

I'm no TSL fan, but I cannot believe Dave has to justify reporting on sexual misconduct allegations.

It is clear from Dave's videos that he is, at the very least, an extreme narcissist if not an out and out sociopath. I was not aware of this back when I first started watching TSL but it's become quite obvious since Jenny Kirk's departure. His grandiose and frequent monologues about how the sport of figure skating can be saved along with his constant defensiveness when criticized or when he even thinks someone might criticize him are both hallmarks of someone with narcissistic personality disorder. Ditto his obvious need for admiration and his lack of any genuine empathy (though he often attempts to fake it) for skaters who are struggling. Why anyone in the North American skating community is still agreeing to be interviewed by this fellow is a mystery to me--are they that desperate to be heard?

Thank R448. Now I see what was going on. It's strange that that fan would claim Tanaka said and did things he did not do, but hey, fans and all. I think she may be the one who's 16 (but I get the Twitter fan accounts mixed up). In future, I'll take the extra step of Google-translating the Japanese - especially when something is so bizarre like that. She's maligning that poor photographer guy Tanaka, implying he'd act so crazy in public like that!

Brennan's new article on Coughlin's sexual misconduct allegations. Two of them involved minors.

I've always detested the glee with which Lease gives his disparaging comments, as if he gets personal satisfaction from someone's misfortunes.

Aww, poor baby Conrad is so nervous his voice is shaking in this interview. I hope he gains confidence and has a good season next year. It's a shame he'll miss out on more comps this year but from the sound of his voice, maybe it's best he just relax and keep training for the future. Maybe Keegan will retire and... well, maybe there will be room for him in the top tier in the future. He was still in juniors this year after all.

He's not nervous like Conrad, but here's Yuzuru vs English in an interview (in the second one, he mentions wanting to do the quad axel if he can)

This was a comment on Facebook re: the Coughlin situation: "The name of the accuser should be released, and that person should be punished for false accusations. Maybe, it will prevent potential others from wrongdoing, and make people think twice before harming another person. Safe Sport, PSA and USFSA should be responsible as well." Jesus Christ!

R471 The person posting that is an idiot and probably a predator

The person who posted that on Facebook (what I quoted in R471) is a woman, R472. I don't know if she knew Coughlin, but I couldn't believe what I was reading.

R473 women can be predators too

Damn I didn't know this guy had so many fans. Everyone is defending and swearing up and down he was a saint. Is it the suicide thing that's causing so much sympathy? Very few people is giving two shits about the possible victims which is frankly sad.

R473 Obviously someone without empathy. If she or her family member was assaulted, doubt she would feel the same.

At 2:36 in this video Nam talks about being crammed in the backseat with the fans who drove him to St John when his flight was canceled:

"I didn’t want to make awkward body contact because I’m really not into that” lol

Btw, Elladj is a sweetheart! I hope they keep him on the tv.

Was Coughlin a billionaire? 3 women decided to come forward for someone who killed himself because he lost his livelihood. I guess coincidentally 3 women could have been treated like shit by this great guy and so are trying to get him back. I guess we’ll never know since he couldn’t deal with the truth.

Hey victims -Coughlin supporters are saying shut up. I say keep speaking up boys/girls/men/women/ transgender/Q. Survivors over perpetrators every time.

I'm having trouble understanding the skating community's reaction to Coughlin. I think most of them know at least some of the women who have come forward, but are unswayed by reports of the allegations. Is this an issue where the person is technically a minor but an older teenager (like, say 17) so people are waving it off? There have been many instances (some romanticized) of older men dating younger women in skating and no one's batted an eye. Dave and his guest did bring up Gordeeva/Grinkov on the show. So people are upset that Coughlin was facing ruination for something other people in the skating community have engaged in? I'm not saying this is acceptable. I'm just wondering whether this accounts for their reaction.

A rep for SafeSport just stated that it's "unlikely" they'll continue the Coughlin investigation:

[quote] I think it’s unlikely given the Center’s mission,” Dan Hill said in a telephone interview. “We are not a punitive body. When someone is suspended, it is to keep individuals safe. It’s all about the safety of the reporting party. In this instance, sadly, the safety issue isn’t there now.” The only likely reason to keep the investigation open would be if there were any reports of “systemic issues,” Hill said. “If there were other parties that perhaps were involved or anything else that would be systemic in nature, that would be a reason to keep it open. In other cases, there have been people who assisted, knew of things, had an obligation to report and didn’t, that kind of thing.”

I have no words. The Professional Skaters Association just came out with this:

"We are all deeply saddened and still in shock by John’s Coughlin’s death. He was a dear friend, respected coach, and advocate for our sport.

As an organization, PSA is required to follow the U.S. Center for SafeSport’s rules and guidelines. The U.S. Center for SafeSport has ultimate authority granted to them by the federal government over all National Governing Bodies (NGB). We, as a skating and coaching community, need to come together with a clear and unified front that advocates for change and reform. PSA will do everything in its power to advocate and support our coaches in this effort."

I love this. lol

I typed up notes of Dave Lease's interview with Christine Brennan of USA Today but I don't know if anybody's interested - I feel funny clogging up the thread with all the details, especially on this because if you're interested, you'd listen yourself - it's mostly a defense of both Dave's and Christine's reporting. At the end, Dave said he took down the last video with "Jen" because the Daily Mail called him about it and he didn't want to this stuff to become about him, he worried how they'd handle it and how it would affect JC's family - he didn't like the reporter's "probing" questions so he declined to answer. Christine said she had one (maybe two?) more pieces coming out about this story - that she'll be in Detroit and will continue working on it. She said she had personally spoken to about 35 people in skating about the situation (defending her tweet that there were "believed to be" more accusers.) BTW, anyone can report abuse - it doesn't have to be the victim. In fact, coaches "must" report any abuse. At minute44, she quotes SafeSport's Dan Hill who said the investigation will now end unless there seems to be systemic knowledge of this and failure to report.

r477 I hope this second win leads to more sponsors for Nguyen.

r479 According to Brennan’s source, the victims include one adult and at least two minors, so that would make two older teenagers if that were the case, and it wouldn’t explain the allegation from the adult who’s supposedly well-known in the local community (and now hated by judges). It’s possible these vocal friends and acquaintances of Coughlin were under the false impression that they knew more about the investigation than they actually did because they were misled by their only source. It still doesn’t excuse the victim and messenger-blaming. I know I will never look at some of these people (Gold, Ari Zakarian, Knierims) the same way again.

Chris Knierim (Alexa also had to bring "God" into it)::

If I understood him correctly, Dave said he'd talked to the judges and they were angry at this person (accuser) that you're talking about - he wondered if this person would be able to continue in the sport. And if this is going to mean that no one will dare come forward again. Even the SafeSport guy said he and and they are getting a lot of terrible emails and even threats.

Technical Panels at Euros

MEN

Controller: Ms. Julia ANDREEVA (Russia)

Specialists: Mr. Jan CEJVAN (Slovenia) and Ms. Jyrina LORENZ (Italy)

LADIES

Controller: Ms. Raffaella LOCATELLI (Italy)

Specialist: Mr. Sandor GALAMBOS (Switzerland) and Mr. Jamie MCGRIGOR (Canada)

PAIRS

Controller: Ms. Anna SIEROCKA (Poland)

Specialist: Mr. Brad COX (USA) and Ms. Larisa FEDOSEEVA (Russia)

DANCE

Controller: Mr. Shawn RETTSTATT (USA)

Specialists: Mr. Sergei BARANOVt (Ukraine) and Mr. Andrzej DOSTATNI (Poland)

R471 here. The woman who posted the "We should name the accuser" on Facebook works with children at the Fort Wayne Ice Rink. I so feel like like letting them know that their Artistic Director is a complete bitch but I don't want to be as nasty as she is. But I certainly wouldn't trust her with my children (if I had them!)

[quote] I feel funny clogging up the thread with all the details, especially on this because if you're interested, you'd listen yourself

No, I hate Dave's mincing and catty cuntitude and I don't want to give him any clicks, and I also hate Christine Brennan (not for this particular incident, just in general), but I'm just as morbidly curious as anyone, so I do appreciate the notes.

Why are "judges" in particular so pissed off about the accuser? That seems odd to me.

TSL 20 Jan – Part 1: Guest: Christine Brennan of CNN/GMA/USA Today – Starts with several minutes of condolences/memories & fondness for John Coughlin. Dave said they were being accused of attacking John “before the body gets cold.” He wants to talk to her about their “civic duty.” Dave says he published a screen capture of the SafeSport allegation two weeks ago from Friday and he decided to post it after calling around to people to find out about this because it hadn’t been posted on the USFS website and it worried him to see pix of his clinics with Gracie Gold – it didn’t seem like this was being reported. And he had posted/shared Brennan’s articles and now wants to ask her about her decision to report and the thought processes she went through. Christine said this is a “huge, huge story” so she’s glad to talk w/him. When SafeSport, on Dec 17, posted the “Interim Restriction” for JC, it became a matter of public record. She put it out on Jan 7 (and Dave on Jan 4) and says that was “absolutely appropriate.” It was not innuendo or gossip, and she says it would be “highest level of journalistic malpractice” had she known and not published it. She’s been a professional for 37 yrs. She reported today that there were three reports of sexual misconduct, two with minors. She said she broke news of the elevation of discipline that she saw on the SafeSport site on Twitter Thursday night (and two later allegations had come out). She said her source knew exactly what he or she was talking about.

TSL 20 Jan – Part 2 --12 CB: After the Nasser scandal, SafeSport was started in 2017 where ppl cd go anonymously to report sexual misconduct. 15 “People have clamored for this – to know who was on a SafeSport list.” 15:45 Dave said ppl in skating don’t like a light shone on their culture. 16:40 DL talks about Andrew Laverick case who was arrested. Dave said he knows judges and some are angry at the accuser. Can this person continue in the sport? – there is fear now for anyone who might want to come forward. 18.50 CB says she has another piece out where she talks to Dave Hill at SafeSport – they’re getting terrible emails and threats. Before this, they were criticized for not doing enough, now the pendulum has swung, ppl say they’ve done too much. You can report someone by phone or email – you don’t have to be the victim – in fact coaches know they must report, even if it’s not recent. Then they investigate. Till Oct, they only had 4 ppl and they’ve been overwhelmed. 20 Congress is looking into this. They need more funding, there is such need. She’s going to Detroit in a couple of days to continue covering this story – but maybe after this, ppl won’t want SafeSport doing things this way. 23 For the Jan 7 story, she emailed John Coughlin. He gave her a long comment calling the allegations unfounded, that she quoted at length. 24 Dave said ppl have complained about his reporting but he said from his first show with Tai Babilonia, he’s discussed issues with the skating culture - like anorexia/body image. Dave then compares JC to Alex Nadoor (sp?) who had a similar situation in gymnastics. There were articles then about Nadoor, like CB’s about John. Nadoor’s interim suspension was lifted and he’s back coaching and owns a gym. JC could have cleared his name too.

TSL 20 Jan – Part 3 – 27 CB tells about the reaction to her four tweets, which Dave asked her to discuss. She said she had talked to about thirty-five ppl in the sport about potential other allegations. People she trusted told her his restriction was elevated to suspension because there were more than one. That’s why she said “believed to be” more than one allegation. 36 CB talks about Richard Callahan story w/named victim and he’s fighting it – she says they would have covered it had JC fought these allegations. 40 DL: Andrew Laverick says he will clear his name; there was a police report in his case. Dave reads/discusses the statement from Professional Skaters Association about JC. 44 Dan Hill of SafeSport told CB that the investigation will be over unless there was systemic knowledge and failure to report. 46 CB talks about cases where both the accused and the victims have committed suicide in the middle of investigations. Dave said ppl have tweeted at him – “I guess you’re happy now” (about the suicide). 48 CB is not concerned about being attacked - “the line forms over here” 51 CB says attacks on Dave should stop. “The anger doesn’t do anybody any good.” 52 Why did Dave take last video down? He had been contacted by a reporter for the Daily Mail and Dave didn’t like their “probing” questions and declined to answer their questions. THE END

Sexual misconduct is an umbrella term. It can mean anything from looking at someone in a sleazy way or making dirty jokes, to actual rape. I am curious about what it is the guy actually did. I know he's dead and that's tragic, but the can of worms has been opened, better let it all out. They can keep the victims' names secret but I wanna know the rest.

I agree with R492. The best thing would be to get it all out there to stop the endless speculation. Based on his public persona/character I find it hard to believe it was about dirty jokes. And for that alone to lead to suicide??? That would be one hell of an overreaction. This whole thing about his career being over...he was only 33 ffs, there are plenty of other things he could do outside of skating. Go back to school if need be. No, I think it must have been something much more serious for him to feel so ashamed and hopeless. Probably not "rape rape" but perhaps a pattern of grooming and so on. He wouldn't be the first or the last.

I suppose it is not "rape rape" because the former ice dancer who had the inappropriate touching accusation in November last month was taken in custody and criminally charged in early December

Maybe it is skating culture. There seems to be a pattern here.

WILD SPECULATION- maybe these skaters start so young they blur the lines from teenager to adulthood, especially when men in their 20s start dating girls 16-17. I bet in most situations it is considered “consensual”( although could argue consent for anyone under 18) and people around them think it’s sweet. But add a little mental illness, personal past trauma, and/or deviance and you can get a predator amongst a pool of “good” people.

Was Coughlin still with Dennery? If not, does anyone know when they split up, and if he was dating anyone else?

also SPECULATION: the victims were 2 minors (at that time) and 1 adult so i don't think it's only a matter of age, it was something inappropriate that he did several times. it wasn't actual rape or he would've been criminally charged right away. but it was serious enough for him to kill himself over it. skaters like mervin tran who know about the situation talk about him on twitter with sympathy and pity, that confuses me most of all. there's also the reluctance of the official bodies to speak about it now, all this leads me to think it was something perceived as shameful, such as voyeuristic behavior or exhibitionism. /end speculation

The skating community has had a rollercoaster relationship with Christine Brennan over the years because she’s rather objective about them. They want someone who is all rah-rah about the sport a la those figure skating magazines. She wrote about what she saw. And it wasn’t always pretty. Especially after her first book, Inside Edge. She wrote a chapter on how AIDS had decimated the skating ranks, especially Canada’s rosters. She also focused on the Great Straight Hope, the muscle bound yet dull Michael Weiss, and his team’s treatment of Brian Wright, his choreographer who later died from AIDS. She wrote a follow up, Edge of Glory, which focused on the season leading up to the Nagano Games. Her chapter on Rudy Galindo was great, especially when talking about how the USFSA would not assign him to Skate America in 1996, despite winning the national title earlier that year. They weren’t comfortable with him being openly gay. So they gave him events in Europe.

I didn’t know that Jenny Kirk left TSL. I was surprised that she was with Dave because when Dave was on GGMB/Figure Skating, he trashed her a couple of times. GGMB was loaded with psychopaths and bullies. Too many power plays, cliques and favorites. Eventually the site closed because of too much infighting. I think that it’s back, but under new ownership with less gay gossip.

R497 People who talk about due process need to understand it doesn’t always work for sexual assault victims. Anyone familiar with indictment/conviction of rape over the past century would understand this.

Take Nassar, he was only convicted of molesting 7 Minors, but more than 100 survivors spoke up. It’s hard to prove you were fingered by your doctor during an exam. Look at the Coughlin reaction and immediate attacking “accusers”. I like the idea of Safesport, it’s a baby organization so needs tweaking. HOWEVER, Coughlin suicide is on his shoulders and his shoulders alone in this situation. From what I can tell he has tons of family /friend support and minimal public backlash. Instead of trying to shut down the conversation because he killed himself , everyone should try to get to the truth to clear his name or bring some sense of justice to the victims.

R484 I understand it might be difficult to for skaters to reconcile the charges with the friend they knew, but some of the responses have been disappointing.

This is what Ari wrote: "I will never believe , John was pure and honest person, he was so proud to became ISU member, I do not buy this bullshit. R.I.P."

Chris interrupted an abuse survivor's plea to skaters to also be sensitive to the victims by lecturing her that Coughlin hasn't been convicted of anything yet.

R498 thanks for the background on Brennan. I haven't read her books so I'll check them out. USFSA's treatment of Rudy was atrocious, I don't know if I have the stomach to read those chapters.

TSL went down the drain when Jenny left. Her seriousness and knowledge helped balance out Dave's bitchiness and lack of substance. Jon, the new guy is just a yes man and is often worst than Dave

That's exactly why I really dislike the Knierims. They lay on the Christian b.s., and then they do something like lecture abuse survivors on how they are supposed to act. "Christian, " my ass.

I just dislike them because they are lazy.

R500 Since FS, much like gymnastics, involves underaged children from all backgrounds, it sounds like all the participants and leaders need to get educated about potential child predators.

Their first class should be “ nice guys can rape too”

“Approximately 90 percent of child sexual victimization crimes are committed by people the children know. People we trust. People we hand our children over to voluntarily. The FBI has a few terms for these offenders: “Nice Guy Offenders” or “Pillars of the Community Offenders” or “Acquaintance Offenders.”

Thanks, Jesus. I concur.

I could use a Yuzu pic right about now.

Being charming and nice is exactly the way they get victims and get away with what they do for as long as they do.

Richard Callaghan is a known molester, but he gets away with it because he coached Tara Lipinski. It sucks. Figure skating is run by eccentrics, elitists and bigots. The fans are so snotty too.

R501 TSL went down the drain before Jenny left. I would say the decline began after fans started sending them money to attend skating comps and visit training centers. Dave in particular seemed to spend most of his time partying at the comps and seemed to forget why he was there in the first place.

As for Christine Brennan, she's still stuck in the past with the 6.0 scoring system and has little interest in the actual sport; she's focused on personalities and scandal. Phil Hersh at least tried to keep up with the changes in the sport and cover it with some journalistic integrity but he's more or less retired now.

R508 Craig Maurizi first accused Callaghan of abusing him in 1999. Callaghan wasn't suspended by SafeSport until 2018. Almost 20 fucking years with a whole lot of cover-up by US figure skating. No wonder no one wants to come forward.

TSL has risen ever since Johnathan came in. If anything, the have been hitting it out of the park post Olympics.

Christine Brennan was great in last night’s interview.

R511 Are you writing from your bathroom stall in Grenoble, Jonathan?

Safe sport has only been around since 2013, but they were not an independent organization until last year when congress decided to take it within their wings after the Larry Nassar case. When the Callaghan complaint came to their doorstep, they took action.

The irony is that Richard is suing everyone and their mother, and has talked about the ongoing investigations against him.

R513 Yes, I agree and didn't mean to imply SafeSport sat on it for 20 years. Craig's complaint was kicked around/dismissed by the usual channels until SafeSport took action. Now Coughlin's defenders are talking about needing to fix SafeSport as if it's the problem here.

Dalilah Sappenfield put up a GoFundMe for John's funeral costs and legal fees, and the list of donors looks like the who's who of skaters.

There's also a comment from someone: "My husbands Suspension was recently rescinded by SafeSport nearly a year after it was publicly posted. He had already been cleared by police, SBI and our DA’s Office before SafeSport issued a public Suspension over the same accusations. There ARE false reporters out there and these Suspensions are ruining lives. Now they have cost one. Unacceptable."

Delilah Sappenfield has another thing coming for her. There has always been talk that she has always favored the male skaters in her pairs. Often, dropping the female skater after a split, and pampering the male creating an unfair power imbalance.

I think Denney was still with Coughlin. They apparently caught her mother and made a little write up with their "interview" with her.

R503 and R505, you both made me laugh. This whole story is depressing, and I needed that bitchery!

Coughlin's agent is Maurizi's wife

Jesus, that just makes it worse, R519.

It’s loaded with weirdos. I met a woman at Skate America in 2005. Typical looking frau who delighted in telling me and my girl BFF about Jeff Buttle getting caught giving some guy a hummer in the men’s room at Skate Canada. Apparently things like this happen a lot.

Polina Edmunds's mom is calling for the victims' names to be made public.

Link, R522? (I'm just disgusted with her for doing that)

R523 See attached.

Yeah, now I’m pretty sure 60 minutes need to break this down for everyone. Let’s get a real view of the skating culture and pedophilic tendencies.

GS has shut down both threads on Coughlin because there are just soooo many more important things to talk about in FS right now. What assholes.

In the most crucial news of the day...one of the German pairs withdrew from Euros

There will be only 11 pairs...

But which one, R527 ????!!!!

R528

Hocke/Blommaert!!!

We still have an exciting line up....

Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER

Lana PETRANOVIC / Antonio SOUZA-KORDEIRU

Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES

Minerva Fabienne HASE / Nolan SEEGERT

Zoe JONES / Christopher BOYADJI

Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE

Rebecca GHILARDI / Filippo AMBROSINI

Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII

Daria PAVLIUCHENKO / Denis KHODYKIN

Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV

Laura BARQUERO / Aritz MAESTU

R529 Good God, not Hocke/Blommaert! ANYONE BUT THEM!!

R521 What was he humming? The fraus always leave out the most important details.

R530 fingers crossed that Ghilardi/Ambrosini will make it to Minsk!

Only because Ambrosini is openly gay....otherwise the whole gay scene at Europeans will be in the hands of Sondre!

R531 Something he learned from his church choir, "Lord, You’ve Searched and Known Me." Definitely one of my favorites.

[quote] GS has shut down both threads on Coughlin because there are just soooo many more important things to talk about in FS right now. What assholes.

[R526] After seeing the scary naziesque lists of "Trash" skaters that SansaStarkss is posting on twitter, I think shutting down is a good idea. Thanks to Euros and the U.S. Nats, I plan to do nothing but watch skating and read K/C threads for the next five days..

Which skaters made the list?

Euro schedule...Minsk times

Wednesday

11:45 Ladies SP

19:00 Pairs SP

Thursday

12:00 Men SP

19.45 Pairs FS

Friday

12.40 Rhythm Dance

18:00 Ladies FS

Saturday

11:15 Men FS

16.25 Free Dance

R534 I felt bad for her at first and am disappointed by the reaction of the FS community, but listing every person who has posted something about Coughlin on SNS is crazy, frankly.

I didn't follow the discussion on GS that carefully, but when I did look, it didn't seem at all extreme.

R536 I'm glad Euros will provide a distraction.

[R535] It's a list of skaters who have contributed to the GFM for Coughlin's family or have said anything nice about John on social media, even if it's just to say rip and they will miss him., or to like someone else's posts. This list is being posted so that skating fans can decide who they want to continue to support.. Vomit.

R538 It lists them by the severity of their offense (actively defending him vs. just posting a tribute). Apparently, she at one point also listed the people who stayed silent, but then decided it wasn't "relevant."

I don't know what's worse, his rabid defenders who refuse to believe he wasn't a saint and want to name and shame his accusers, or crazy SJW thought police who can't accept that those who knew him might not be ready to call him a monster. Especially when we don't even know exactly what he was accused of. Who would have ever guessed John freaking Coughlin would spark this kind of madness?

R540 Coughlin took himself out of the picture. Now it’s his potential victims versus a mob mentality. I vote potential victims until proven otherwise.

R540 I totally feel you. You're between a rock and my hard place.

How about a distraction? French stalker (Giji_S) is volunteering at Euros and already creeping on Fernandez. She now has almost a thousand followers. She had maybe 20 during ACI?

But I creep only from safe distances!! Only enough to eavesdrop on conversations and lightly caress ample bottoms.

R519 R520 Tara Modlin, managed Johnny Weir for years. I remember her from “Johnny Be Good”. She was not married to Maurizi at the time. I saw an episode of “Say Yes to the Dress” she was featured on. This was after “Johnny Be Good” ended. Johnny was part of the group who accompanied her on the shopping trip. I don’t know when their professional relationship ended. I imagine he required broad entertainment based representation. I just looked up his current representation. All based in LA : manager, agent (CAA) and attorney.

R545 here. Link to season 8 Episode 7 “Say Yes to the Dress” from 2012 with Tara and Johnny. Must have been a different fiancé . She just got married to Craig Maurizi on New Years Eve. I thought they were already married.

Johnny Weir just needs to transition already.

TSL 21 Jan CDN Nats – Part 3. Jonathan Beyer is back – will be in Detroit with Dave for US Nats. CDN MEN: 1.04 Nam Nguyen. Others faltered and he got his gold. J: still some hunching but quads seemed stronger. D: So good to see Nam make a comeback after such a difficult period. But his speed and SS not tip top. J wants him to work with Bukin. Gogo: D felt like Rob was rooting for him to win. 1.12 Dave sees in Gogo deficits that weren’t worked on in Nam when he was young. D thinks it’s good he didn’t win – needs better SS so you don’t have a Nam or Zhou situation. Gogo doesn’t have performance quality that Nathan Chen did at that age. Gogo’s skating misses that character and personality. He’s dull. And “we’re judging him against Keegan who does have that charisma and persona” J: “For days.” 1.14 Nam spent too much time on quads, not on SS, and then the quads started to go as well – that can easily happen. Jon thinks Stephen needs to work on his spins too. D: “[bad spins] are becoming a Cricket Club thing this season but NOT with Hanyu, “he practices his spins.” (Jon: but he may have come that way) D: Javi had good spins. They weren’t so jump centric then. Jason keeps his spins; how much better can Jason Brown get at spinning?! J: Let Jason teach the others ones! D: That would be good, he would cheer. D: Keegan Messing. J: Also known as Tigger – because I’ve never seen anyone bounce off their butt like that. And he skates across the ice like a bullet. D: Meagan said Keegan was the best spinner in the world. D: though maybe esthetically not the greatest 1.19. J: Roman broke his heart here – such beautiful skating. J wanted him to be on Worlds team over Nadeau. D: Canada has a lot in the ‘almost’ category. Orzel too – such beautiful air position! A lot of up-and-coming Canadian men have qualities than Nam is missing.

TSL 21 Jan CDN Nats – Part 4 – 1.21 D:“I’ve held off but Vincent Resentcort on Instagram: “such a transparent vulture” J: “opportunistic/exploitative” Unhelpful to Gracie. Why is he talking about losing 12 lbs in a week when GG has issues? J: Red flags. They say Ting’s dad used to keep Vincent in line. He doesn’t force run-thrus. CDN LADIES: 1.24 “Alaine Chartrand has seized the moment and made it her own!!” (a running joke in this show based on old commentator “Uncle” Vern.) D: I thought my girl Larkyn was gonna do it. Great for Alaine because her career has been on a down and she was def best in the field (such as it was). She’s still “rough around the edges” GABBY 1.31 Talked about her concussion and the discomfort everybody has addressing her mental issues. Her mom said, “Is skating part of the problem or part of the solution?” Heartbreaking to see her break down in k&c and D wondered why she did this comp. 1.34 D talks about his own anxiety issues and meds/therapy/lifestyle mods. So when someone is ‘wound [tight]’ (like him?) they shdn’t be pushed too soon. 1.37 they have to consider Gabby for Worlds because she has the potential and deserves it. IF it’s safe for her, she shd be sent. So a hard decision for those close to her. Aurora: new coach Ravi has helped a lot w/her basic skating. 1.42 US Nats preview: they’ll be in mourning so who will be able to handle it? How will the duress affect skaters? D has heard the scene in Detroit is intense/raw, esp pair event. He said Jenny’s been watching leadup but he hasn’t been able to pay attention due to stress. D has talked to her privately and “it’s been rough.”

TSL 21 Jan CDN Nats – Part 1. Meagan Duhamel was going to join them but weather/luggage issues ?? 4 Toronto synchronized team will be skating to The Handmaidens Tale/Kate Bush. ICE DANCE: both loved Weaver/Poje, ethereal compared to earthiness of Piper/Paul. D saw essence of Tessa/Scott w/W/P, a “grand dame-ness”. 11.30 D: “Jonathan, you love a tall giraffe and W&P are your tall giraffe team.” D prefers them to Hubbell/Zach. 16.30 Piper/Paul: less mature than W/P. J missed their quirkiness. D wanted more drama. 20 Meagan texted Dave that she couldn’t make it to be with them for this show but hopes they can catch up at some point. 3rd place team better than expected but D prefers him without the man bun; J doesn’t mind it. 24 Dave said someone told him he looked like a twink and he weakly said “uh thanks” (not too pleased) but he doesn’t grow facial hair ? (but he’s cut himself shaving and complained on his show about it); more on other teams & what’s going on in Montreal. PAIRS 32 Kirsten Moore Towers, who Dave had interviewed before (after her concussion, she went to his airb&b and brought her dog – but another one in her apt w/Jenny and he combed her hair), she “was really on – what a moment!” She’s very relatable. KMT sells it. Great lifts/spins for this pair.

TSL 21 Jan CDN Nats – Part 2 – 41 They like Tracy’s commentary – she can kindly point out deficits – but “it’s her counterpart that’s annoying.” Someone said they had a game: every time that guy (commentating with Tracy) called Gogo “the young gun” they’d take a drink. Funny mimicking of him talking to much vs Sandra Bezik gently waiting for the right moment to speak. J said he didn’t know enough to critique jumps (in men’s) and Tracy was artfully cutting him off when he was wrong. 44 D: “Apparently Tracy and Sandra go out for ‘wine night’” “Rob McCall may have been the art and presentation but Tracy was the rock in that team.” [she’s tough] He decides she probably said, “It’s been tense w/these Oly champ and Brian is stressed out, so let’s have Jason Brown here at TCC...” 47 They miss “Vern Londquist” who felt like their uncle. Lots about Tracy who they love. 49 Dick Button is auctioning off his goods. 50 They talked about being in Jonathan’s apartment together – and his harp and boa blanket, Tibetan lamp, D: “It was like Rue McClanahan lived on the Upper West Side.” 51 Kammie Rueh and Drew? They’re couple now off the ice but they like drive. He misses a “Deanna moment in the K&C.” Jonathan: “Another dated soft rock piece from another Canadian pair...” 59 Evelyn and Trennt had nice ride out on their triple toes. 1.04 They talk about Meagan knowing what every other couple is doing. Dave said she’s not as quick with the texting now [note from TSL Troll: ?? to him? Beats me - wonder if Meagan decided not to appear with Dave because of Coughlin controversy - Dave seemed nervous - he probably faces scorn in Detroit! Jonathan seemed to be trying to be comforting.]

* At minute 51 - that couple LACK drive (according to Dave) - not "like" drive like I incorrectly typed above

Someone called Dave a twink? Was it Mr. Magoo? Nice humblebrag (if it even really happened).

I loathe those guys but I do agree w/them about Gogolev. He has no personality...and yes, I've seen him live, twice.

Tony Wheeler (who does the skating vlog with P J) had this comment on FSU:

"Anyways, there's a lot of TSL hate through these threads and by now most everyone knows I am no big fan of the message Dave is spreading about the sport he supposedly loves so much. He's always taken the Perez Hilton/TMZ route, but from what I've seen, I don't think anything was really over the line this time. Comments such as a few weeks ago telling everyone to go look up Vincent Restencourt's past record, though, go back to that 'I know something and I want you to know that I know it' and that's what bothers me, as are previous comments he (back in the days with Jenny) made regarding skaters and their physical conditions. I know he's still in touch with former skaters/parents/people in the sport that have a chips on their shoulders for one reason or another, and a lot of his information seems to come from those very people that just want to take everyone else/the USFSA/the sport down and want in on all the gossip." END QUOTE

Well.... I bet that's why Dave got furious and attacked Restencourt again (about the losing 12 pounds). Narcissists go ballistic when criticized and if Dave is one, and I'm coming around to that idea, then he must feel like he walking on burning coals right now. I noticed Christine Brennan claimed to not give a shit what ppl say about her. (not that she isn't one too lol, but her life's love/skating commentary career doesn't depend on her rep - at least I don't think so, I guess we'll see.

Still think Meagan ditched on him because of him reporting the investigation of Coughlin first - I wonder if his interviewees will start bailing on him (and skating fans tune out)?

Farewall Javier

SP Ladies tomorrow

5 hours and 9 minutes

All of them...

Elizabete JUBKANEtttLAT

Anastasia GOZHVAtttUKR

Hana CVIJANOVICtttCRO

Sophia SCHALLERtttAUT

Silvia HUGECtttSVK

Lara Naki GUTMANNtttITA

Warm-Up Group 2t  tt

Antonina DUBININAtttSRB

Valentina MATOStttESP

Paulina RAMANAUSKAITE LTU

Ekaterina RYABOVAtttAZE

Julia SAUTERtttROU

Pernille SORENSENtttDEN

Warm-Up Group 3t  tt

Anastasiya GALUSTYANtttARM

Gerli LIINAMÄEtttEST

Kyarha VAN TIELtttNED

Yasmine Kimiko YAMADAtttSUI

Elzbieta GABRYSZAKtttPOL

Camilla GJERSEMtttNOR

Warm-Up Group 4t  tt

Lucrezia GENNAROtttITA

Eliska BREZINOVAtttCZE

Alexandra FEIGINtttBUL

Dasa GRMtttSLO

Natasha MCKAYtttGBR

Nathalie WEINZIERLtttGER

Warm-Up Group 5t  tt

Anita ÖSTLUNDtttSWE

Viveca LINDFORStttFIN

Ivett TOTHtttHUN

Nicole SCHOTTtttGER

Emmi PELTONENtttFIN

Nicole RAJICOVAtttSVK

Warm-Up Group 6t  tt

Alina ZAGITOVAtttRUS

Stanislava KONSTANTINOVAtttRUS

Laurine LECAVELIERtttFRA

Mae Berenice MEITEtttFRA

Sofia SAMODUROVAtRUS

Alexia PAGANINItttSUI

Don't know if this was causing anyone else to wonder - but Caydey Denney donated to a "GoFundMe" for John Coughlin (for funeral I think?), so I think that means she wasn't one of the three accusers.

Confess....how many you don't even recognize in the ISU promo for Euros?

There are 2 I don't know who they are...

R557 She wasn't a likely candidate

Her sister Haven Denney (who is competing at Nationals this week) was posting tributes to Coughlin during the weekend

R558

in order of appearance it should be

James/Cipres

Stepanova/Bukin

Fernandez

Sinistina/Katslapov

Papadkis/Cizeron

Della Monica/Guarise

Bychenko?

Samarin

Paul Fentz

Alexia Paganini

Kolyada

Guignard/Fabbri

Brezina

Boikova/Kozlovskii

Hase/Seegert

James/Cipres again

??

Vasjlieves

Yanovskaya/Lukacs

Evdokimova/Bazin

??

Zagitova

Paganini again

Guignard/Fabbri again

Samodurova

Tarasova/Morozov

Alison Reed and Lithuanian boy

Evdokimova/Bazin again (!)

Pavliuchenko/Khodykin

Della Monica/Guarise again

Rizzo

Papadakis/Cizeron

Meite

Pavliuchenko/Khodykin again

Ziegler/Kiefer

Della Monica/Guarise again

Sotskova who is not even taking part?

Fernandez again

Stepanova/Bukin again

Aymoz

Zagitova

Thanks R559. Sorry to have even remotely made the suggestion - I just don't know anything about pairs skating, especially in the past.

BTW, I saw this comment in a post at the forum FSU: "I have read at least one comment by a prominent judge in response to Sappenfield's initial facebook post, that would give me pause about their ability to be neutral in judging the complainant's skating. The post doesn't refer to the complainant at all, but argues that Coughlin's life has been ruined, implies that it was social media posts that prompted his suicide, and claims that "due process" was not done."

So it sounds like one of the complainants, at least, was a currently-competing skater. I know one person had commented that they felt for John - and also for the complainant, and when they saw the complainant at Nationals, they would hug them and ask how they were doing. But I still didn't know if that meant the person was a skater or someone else, like a coach. If that person was telling the truth, which I have no reason to doubt, then I really really feel sorry for him/her (oh, also on FSU they're saying there were rumors John was gay, so I guess this could be a male or female??)

With all this innuendo, I feel like more should be known. Not necessarily outing the complainants, but leaving it all up in the air like this doesn't seem to be healthy for the people involved - or for skating in general, and yet, they may be shutting down the investigation.

I am not a TSL follower, but according to FSU Dave is getting so many death threats that he is shutting down his social media. While I certainly don't condone anyone getting death threats, I feel like this day was always going to come. When your entire brand is built on being provocative and stirring the pot with a total disregard for who it might hurt, eventually it's going to bite you back. I'm sure he'll be back soon, since no narcissist can survive for long without attention.

Made new thread.

R562 you’re an asshole in disguise. NO ONE SHOULD GET DEATH THREATS FOR SAYING THEIR OPINONS. Dave had the right to talk about someone accused of sexual assault when the info was publicly available. The lack of empathy for the potential victims here is just plain gross.

Actually after retreading your post... not in disguise

The lack of empathy Dave Lease has shown skaters over the past decade is just plain gross. The chickens always come home to roost. And you obviously can't read for shit, since I said in plain English that I do not condone death threats.

Like I said...I didn't follow any of his SM accounts, haven't watched him in years. I try my best to ignore his existence - it's the only way to deal with narcissists. I do think it's pretty telling that you are freaking out over my comment instead of the multiple people actually threatening him. Calm the fuck down and get some perspective.

R566 you don’t condone death threats but gloat “ this day was going to come”. thats condoning it dipshit. Keep ignoring him if you think he’s a narcissist, instead of sounding like an idiot. I’m fuckin pissed you make me defend someone I don’t like that much because of your hypocrisy.

I dislike TSL intensely, but for them to go down like this - over the fact that they simply want to discuss an investigation into sexual misconduct allegations - is just plain ridiculous. I knew the skating fandom/community was insane, but this is embarrassing and revolting.

Anyone read the document at R451? Coaches molesting girls, inviting boys at the rink to sexually assault girls, parents not giving a fuck. If that's part of the culture, maybe that's why people are freaking out about people digging into it.

If Dave is getting death threats, I'm even more concerned about the victims, at least one of whom will be competing this weekend.

There were rumours Coughlin was gay? Any other info on that? He always seemed hetero to me.

R570 I don't think so. Most of the rumors I've heard are about girls.

Judges panel for Ladies at Euros

Referee: Ms. Florence VUYLSTEKER (France)t

Judge 1: Ms. Mona ADOLFSEN (Norway)

Judge 2: Ms. Lone AMSTRUP LINNEMANN (Denmark)t

Judge 3: Mr. Yury KLIUSHNIKOV (Kazakhstan)

Judge 4: Ms. Hermi OTTEMANN (Netherlands)

Judge 5: Ms. Zoia YORDANOVA (Bulgaria)

Judge 6: Mr. Sviatoslav BABENKO (Russia)

Judge 7: Ms. Laimute KRAUZIENEt (Lithuania)

Judge 8: Ms. Zsuzsanna VIKARNE-HOMOLYA (Hungary)

Judge 9: Ms. Lenka BOHUNICKA (Slovakia)

---

you know, last time Krauziene and Babenko were sitting next to each other what happened. Referee must stay awake for the whole 5 hours to check if they don't start talking again. Good that referee should be in the middle of the panel, so next to them

sorry, Mr Kliushnikov is from Azerbaijan not Kazakhstan

R572 Maybe this time Babenko and Krauziene can communicate exclusively through foot tapping.

Krauzine is a bit dumb!

R570 - look at post #885 on this FSU thread for the citations about John's sexuality. You have to scroll quite a ways down (the post numbers are in the upper right I think)

LOL. The Swiss girl celebrating like she won the Olympic because she qualified for FS

Who is the young coach next to her, btw?

is he Samohin's brother?

TSL is available for paid subscription.

Where are you finding that about TSL, R579? Everything except youtube seems to have been taken down?

Hm, the speculation about Coughlin's sexuality seems vague at best. It's always possible he's gay and deeply closeted, but I'll be surprised if the alleged victims aren't female.

I agree R581 - not much there.

After Dave backing out, Christine Brennan talking about all the flak she's getting, SafeSport getting "terrible emails and threats" - I wouldn't be surprised if the skater who is the complainant drops out of Nationals. Can you imagine how this person would feel, with all eyes gazing, many with anger and disgust? How could you possibly perform at your best - how could you even feel safe there?

we don't care about Coughlin's sexuality

we focus on the showdown between Emmie Peltonen and Vivica Lindfors

Lindfors wins today, R583. Now it's time for Zag vs. Sofia vs. Konstantinova.

Kostantinova flops

Looks like Tuk just got her ticket to worlds.

Samodurova was fantastic. She should be ahead of Zag, too bad there is not justice in this world.

Konstantinova keeps her spot on FSU's Team Trainwreck.

DL fave Alexia Paganini nails her program and is in 3rd. The US really shouldn't have released her.

Zag's SP.

Note all the camera closeups of her face in the K&C after her skate.

Cameraman is trying to figure out why does she always look so terrified

No, it's because she's so stunningly beautiful.

Alright.

I liked the height on her jump combo - but that double axel was so small. And jumped on a slant? I thought it looked pathetic. And her body carriage sucks - so hunched. OTOH, I like watching her, more than, say, Med. She's very likeable - and yep, drop dead gorgeous. Most of the girls are pretty but she's on a whole 'nother level, so I get the closeups. I don't know what you do about posture - just coast on with reputation and consistency I guess (and some great jumps). Med's posture sucks too and it never stopped her. I think there's a little bit of tentativeness in Zag too - maybe there always was but her jump proficiency overrode it. We'll see if she has those jumps in her free.

I can't find Samodurova's skate but I just watched her short at Russian Nationals. She has better posture than Zag - and a kind of fun, wild abandon that almost reminds me of a young Yuzuru, like R&J1. If she would get rid of that damned bent-arm tano. She even did it on a spin! It's ugly and takes away from the height of her jumps, which is really cool. And I love that Burlesque song and her high spirits. Seems more athletic than Zag (and Med). But I'm commenting on a different comp lol. Glad she did well. I like these girls. But without 3As or quads, well, I'm not sure of their future, especially hunchy slow-ish Zag. To think we may be looking at the twilight of her career at age 16.

R580

R594, sadly I suspect this season might be Zag's last hurrah and her final realistic chance to get the world title. I find her lovely (outside of when she hunches sometimes) off and on the ice, but she's clearly struggling with growth spurts and body changes. She doesn't look like she's naturally teeny tiny (like Michelle Kwan) or super athletic (like Tuk) in adult build, so she's fighting against nature. Luckily, she's so beautiful that at least she can probably get tons of endorsements and modeling opportunities after she retires.

So can the Russian fed now replace Konstantinova with Tuk for Worlds without having to worry about what Konstantinova's dad might do to them?

R597 I thought it was grandpa who was pulling the strings. Who's her dad?

Starting order for Men tomorrow

Fernandez skates last

Judge #4 in Pairs today was Ms Natalia KRUGLOVA from Ukraine

She was once suspended for 2 years for one of the most LOL attempt of rigging in favour of anonymous skaters...

it was Cup of Nice 2012

The British judge was sitting at the rink cafe when Kruglova arrived and tried to convince her to be generous with the GOEs for Julia Lavrentieva / Yuri Rudik as this pair needed the minimum TES for Worlds....

“On that day I knew I was judging the pairs skating section. I arrived at the ice rink at a quarter past one and the competition was due to start at two o clock. We had a meeting with the referee at 1:30. I went into the cafe at the ice rink, which was on the top floor next to the judges’ room. When I was getting my soup suddenly Natalia Kruglova asked me: ‘…, come and sit with me!’ Behind me all the tables were full but in front of me they were all empty. If she hadn’t said that to me I would have gone to one of the other tables. As I was having my soup Natalia bent over tome and touched my arm and just said: ‘O … I have got something to ask you. Please, when you are judging my couple this afternoon, you know they need every mark they can get. So please will you, when you think of giving them a Zero, please give them a Plus, because that will help them’. At this point I was shocked and I was angry. I put my spoon down and said ‘I am going to the meeting’ and left the table and moved away.”

Kruglova was in the panel for Junior Ladies in Nice....and the referee reported noted ".based on her total score for components, she would have placed the Ukrainian skater 5th. The skater finished 12th on components in this segment. …to me this judging looks like a national bias. Also in the round table discussion she was really fighting and pushing for this skater ( Alina Milevskaya)."