Celebrate this Holiday Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 65)

Link to previous thread for reference:

Previous thread titles for reference:

First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation (10/27/17)

First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation, Part Two (10/28/17)

The Four Treasons: Mueller Investigation, Part 3 (10/31/17)

A Man For All Treasons: Mueller Investigation, Part 4 (11/5/17)

It's Beginning to Look a lot like Treason! The Mueller Investigation Part 5 (12/4/17)

Treason Is The Reason For The Season! The Mueller Investigation Part 6 (12/16/17)

Treason to Believe (The Mueller Investigation Part 7) (12/26/17)

I Love You For Sentimental Treasons (The Mueller Investigation Part 8) (1/3/18)

Give Me One Treason To Stay Here... (The Mueller Investigation Part 9) (1/15/18)

Treasons of Love (The Mueller Investigation Part 10) (1/24/18)

For Treasons Which Are Well Known To Them (The Mueller Investigation Part 11) (1/30/18)

Come on and Treason Down, Treason Down the Road (The Mueller Investigation Part 12) (2/6/18)

13 Treasons Why (The Mueller Investigation Part 13) (2/18/18)

By Treason of Insanity (The Mueller Investigation Part 14) (2/23/18)

The Edge of Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 15) (2/28/18)

A Treason to Live; A Treason to Die (The Mueller Investigation Part 16)…(3/10/18)

Treasons of the Heart (The Mueller Investigation Part 17) (3/17/18)

A Stormy Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 18) (3/21/18)

Lovin', Touchin', Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 19) (3/26/18)

Everything Happens for a Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 20) (4/4/18)

For All the Right Treasons (The Mueller Investigation Part 21) (4/11/18)

Treasons Change (The Mueller Investigation Part 22) (4/16/18)

Dangerous Tre'asons (The Mueller Investigation Part 23) (4/22/18)

Don't Stop (the) Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 24) (5/1/18)

Got This Treason in My Body (The Mueller Investigation Part 25) (5/7/18)

I'm Treason on a Jet Plane... (The Mueller Investigation Part 26) (5/14/18)

Treasonnaires' Disease (The Mueller Investigation Part 27) (5/21/18)

You've Lost That Lovin' Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 28) (6/2/18)

Multiple Treasons Why (The Mueller Investigation Part 29) (6/9/18)

For Undisclosed Treasons (The Mueller Investigation Part 30) (6/18/18)

The Apple Doesn't Fall Far from the Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 31) (06/23/18)

Treason d'être (The Mueller Investigation Part 32) (06/30/18)

My Treasons Are Not My Own (The Mueller Investigation Part 33) (07/08/18)

The Treasons a Baby Cries (The Mueller Investigation Part 34) (07/13/19)

Get to Know Your Family Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 35) (07/15/18)

All You Got To Do is Hold Him And Kiss Him and Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 36) (07/17/18)

Fall or Spring? Which Would / Wouldn't Be Your Favorite Treason? (The Mueller Investigation Part 37) (07/18/18)

It's the Time of the Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 38) (07/21/18)

My Treasonal Summer Job Abroad (The Mueller Investigation Part 39) (07/25/18)

Yellow is the Color of the Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 40) (07/27/18)

When will it Be Mushroom Treason? (The Mueller Investigation Part 53) (09/21/18)

The Treason for my Life's Trials and Tribulations (The Mueller Investigation Part 41) (07/31/18)

Hunting Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 42) (08/04/18)

It's Swimsuit Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 43) (08/07/18)

Treasonably Priced (The Mueller Investigation Part 44) (08/12/18)

Tre45onal Affective Disorder (The Mueller Investigation Part 45) (08/16/18)

A Plea for Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 46 (08/21/18)

Untreasonably Hot (The Mueller Investigation Part 47) (08/22/18)

There is a Treason... Turn, Turn, Turn (The Mueller Investigation Part 48) (08/24/18)

The Voice of Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 49) (08/28/18)

The Golden Age of Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 50) (09/03/18)

Treasons for Remaining Anonymous (The Mueller Investigation Part 51) (09/08/18)

Hurricane Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 52) (09/16/18)

All Natural Mushroom Treasoning (The Mueller Investigation Part 53) (The Mueller Investigation Part 53) (09/22/18)

Treasoning with an Alcoholic (The Mueller Investigation Part 54) (09/28/18)

Judicial Treasoning (The Mueller Investigation Part 55) (10/06/18)

Treasons for Hidden Genius (The Mueller Investigation Part 56) (10/15/18)

Trick or Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 57) (10/25/18)

Several Treasons to Get Out and Vote in the Midterms (The Mueller Investigation Part 58) (11/5/18)

Heading Back to the Magical Keebler Elf Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 59) (11/11/18)

It's Turkey Picking Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 60) (November 18, 2018)

Stepping into the Holiday Treason! (The Mueller Investigation Part 61) (November 26, 2018)

Treason's Greetings! (The Mueller Investigation Part 62) (November 29, 2018)

Spirit of the Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 63) (December 3, 2018)

'Tis the Treason to be Jolly (The Mueller Investigation Part 64) (December 5, 2018)

Celebrate this Holiday Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 65) (December 8, 2018)

Another great thread title!

Hopefully Mueller Claus has got something nice for our Christmas stocking.

Pence must be so thrilled with all of this. I've seen the rumors that the Republican donors are getting squeamish about Trump in 2020 - but would the donors really back Pence in 2020? Are they looking around at any other choices, like Kasich? Kasich has made it clear he would be happy to run, although he doesn't have any charisma.

Kasich is dangerous. Don't let that "ah shucks" demeanor of his fool you, he's a right wing ideologue just like Pence.

I hope they lock up Manafort and throw away the key.

Even IF innocent, Pence will be poison by association.

Pence = Gerald Ford 2.0

No, hopefully Pence = Spiro Agnew 2.0

As in he goes FIRST.

Mike Pence is a robot from outer space.

A special place in hell

That reeks of fetid smell

Is what I'd wish for Manafort

So that he never can abort

With plea deals any plan a court

Imposes on his sleazy sort.

Kasich is a barely-closeted gay man. He has always pinged for me (from space). I’m always surprised at people not seeing it right away.

Kasich is ugly and surly looking. I really couldn't look at his mug for 4 years. He definitely lacks IT.

A reminder of just how wide this net was cast:

It’s not just the Trump Tower meeting. It’s not just the interactions with Wikileaks. It’s not just the Russian ties to Cambridge Analytica. It’s not just Konstantin Kiliminik, a Russian agent working hand in hand with campaign chair Paul Manafort.

It’s not just the ties between Flynn and the Russians. it’s not just the links between the Russians and Eric Prince through the meeting in the Seychelles and beyond that. It’s not just the ties of Wilbur Ross. It’s not just the Trump Organization dealings with Russia.

It’s not just Jared Kushner’s dealings with Russia. It’s not just Kushner and Flynn’s dealing with Kislyak during the campaign. It’s not just the candidate Trump asking for Russian help. It’s not just the GRU hacking for which indictments have already taken place. It’s not just Russian spies creating a channel through the NRA to provide illegal funding support for Trump’s campaign.

We can go on. But let’s not stop before we discuss the many benefits the Russians delivered to Trump via hacking, the dumping of files, the manipulation of social media and other avenues all to support Trump over Clinton. Nor should we fail to discuss the benefits Trump offered the Russians since he gained power. There was his covering up their hacking and his efforts to slow investigations of it. There was his denying the conclusions of the intelligence community about the Russians. There were the talks between Flynn and the Russians about waiving sanctions. There were the meetings with Trump when he was president when he handed over classified information to the Russians. There were whatever promises or concessions were made in Helsinki. There was a pattern of placating the Russians or failing to enforce sanctions for months and months. In other words, there was plenty of quid and plenty of quo ($50 million penthouse apartments and the promise of big deals or financing benefits aside).

From the outreach to Cohen to just the first months of the administration we can count more than a dozen separate avenues of connection at the highest level. In any normal campaign or administration, just one would set off alarm bells and have the president calling the FBI into action.

But instead, in addition to those dozen avenues, the offers that were explicitly or tacitly accepted, benefits to both sides & the overt betrayal of the U.S. to advance the political or economic interests of Trump and those close to him, we have the president obstructing justice.

Actively obstructing. Threatening to fire all those getting closer to the truth. Lying and lying and lying some more and urging staff to lie and witness tampering and so on.

This is not a case of possible collusion. This is sweeping, multi-layered, high level conspiracy led by Vladimir Putin and the Russian intelligence community and involving the active cooperation and complicity of a man who was a candidate for president and then president as well as his entire team. This is the biggest scandal in the history of the American presidency and there is not another that is close to it. But that is not all we know.

The thing about Tillerson, Putin had Donald appoint him. Puton and Exxon had a deal going and Obama said no. Putin thought since he got the presidency for Trump, that he could tell Donald who to hire. Tillerson recognized a lazy dummy and refused to show respect for Trump...therefore, the baby Trump had to get him out of office. In the future, I see Putin ratting out Trump.

Sometimes I wonder how Hillary can even stay here in America...she has been treated so unfairly, I would like to see at least a dozen Republicans pay for the evil that was done.

What's amusing is trump keeps lashing out at mueller on twitter. Mueller never replies but keeps tightening the noose.

Mueller knows the power of silence and discretion in the face of attacks from Individual 1.

Reposting from the end of the last thread because this and the link at R16 above are good summaries of where we are -- and where we are is a very, very bad place for tRump, his children, his co-conspirators, and his cronies.

It will be interesting to watch as people around him, in the government, and in the media begin to realize exactly how fucked he is.

They will start taking those slow steps backing away as it all sinks in.

It will be a delight to behold -- so long as he doesn't blow up the world in the process.

I enjoy watching, mainly on MSNBC, female ex-prosecutors such as Jill Winebanks and Barbara McQuade. They are smart, serious, articulate, intuitive, direct, and are not ambivalent.

CNN, and elsewhere, continuing to feature the Epstein-Trump connected Dershowitz is not endearing one bit. Dershowitz is just a more clever and polished Rudy Giuliani.

From the Washington Post. The closing paragraph is just plain wonderful:

[quote] This scandal can’t be hidden away. Republicans in Congress can’t save Trump, his attorney general can’t save him, and no amount of desperate tweets can save him. Accountability is on its way, and it’s arriving very soon.

Donald Trump is in violation of the U.S. Constitution for 687 days

8 HOURS SINCE THE LATEST REPORT

1488 REPORTS TRACKED

39 INDICTMENTS, 8 GUILTY PLEAS OR VERDICTS

Trump Russia Timeline

Steele Dossier

I love that the URL is Corrupt.AF

Day 687: Undisciplined.

1/ Paul Manafort told "multiple," "discernible lies" to the FBI and the special counsel's office concerning five different matters after agreeing to cooperate with prosecutors.

2/ Mueller's office said that while Michael Cohen gave federal investigators "relevant and useful" information, he still deserves a "substantial" prison term of about four years for his "extensive" criminal conduct.

3/ Mueller cited Trump's time in the White House as relevant to the investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election,

4/ Hours before Mueller filed his memos, Trump kicked off the day by attacking the investigation in a series of angry, error-laden tweets

5/ Trump also claimed that his lawyers are preparing a "major Counter Report" to rebut Mueller's findings

two days." (Washington Post / The Atlantic)

6/ CNN received a bomb threat and had to be evacuated as Trump attacked the media on Twitter as "the enemy of the people."

7/ John Kelly is expected to resign immediately as chief of staff in the coming days.

poll/ 71% of Republicans believe Mueller's investigation is a "witch hunt,"

Notables.

George Papadopoulos was released from prison after serving 12 whole days for lying to investigators

James Comey met behind closed doors with the House Judiciary and Oversight committees.

Trump named William Barr as his next attorney general.

Trump named Army Gen. Mark Milley as his nominee to be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The Justice Department hasn't filed required paperwork stating when Jeff Sessions left office.

Trump nominated former Fox News anchor Heather Nauert as the next ambassador to the United Nations.

The Trump administration finalized a rollback of school lunch regulations, relaxing restrictions on products allowed.

Hot takes.

Mueller Is Telling Us: He’s Got Trump on Collusion

Analysis | The government implicates Trump and the Trump campaign in federal...

Manafort, Cohen, and Individual 1 Are in Grave Danger

Mueller Implicates Trump Officials After Cohen and Manafort

Why does Trump think anything has exonerated him???

Later on

we'll conspire

[quote]who can not bare to have someone disagree with her

Oh, dear.

Oh, dear.

[quote]Dump tweeted about the "boarder"

I have a musical friend who calls these disgrace notes.

My fantasy pretend parents: Robert Mueller and Jill Wine-Banks. Oh to be raised by two such brilliant people.

If I may be so optimistic, if Cheeto goes down so will Faux News. They have hitched their wagon to him so tightly with all kinds of denials of his crimes and corruption that it's gonna be hard to disentangle if fingers crossed Cheeto gets impeached, discredited etc.

Is Fox still yammering about migrant caravans?

And, Kelly is out at the WH.

So Nick Ayers will be Trump-Pence operative to fix it all for the WH? He'll "satisfy" any concerns Miss Lindzey, McTurtle, Gym Jordan, and certain other GOP legislative members may have.

Op thanks for continuing this. Thanks to posters. These threads are beautiful

As we wade through the raw sewage of the Trump administration, keep something in mind. Trump is a gangster/thug. He is cowardly, he is a bully, he believes he is above the law. That's been his MO for decades. He has lived in a bubble where he always ended up getting his way, lying, and twisting every defeat as if it were a win. He is not going to go quietly. He will do anything to hold on to power and stay in that White House. Yes, I know we know that. But given that context, we need to start thinking like Trump. We need to ask ourselves what he's going to do to fight this.It won't be limited to attacking Mueller and lying. He will DO something to prolong his presidency long after it is viable. He doesn't acre about the people or the government. He cares only about his own survival. So what do you think he might do to "change the subject?"

That's what I worry about. He's already been attacking the press for two or three years, and attacking the Department of Justice and the Special Prosecutor. He has singled out individual "enemies" to misdirect the investigators and to change the subject. But he will not stop there. And he has also said that if they tried to impeach or remove him his supporters would become violent. Will he provoke rioting so he can declare martial law and suspend the Constitution? I know that seems very extreme, but this is Trump.

Some very good links upthread cataloging all the developments. How can the Deplorables pretend that all this shit didn’t happen/isn’t happening? They truly believe none of it points to collusion. WTF

Sam Nunberg was just on MSNBC in the last hour disparaging Cohen’s life decisions and saying the filings don’t point to any wrongdoing by Trump.

Turn on MSNBC now— two great legal analysts on, hosting their own short segment about yesterday’s filings

Make that *3* great analysts.

Shit, FOUR! Glenn Kirschner, That Asian girl whose name I can’t remember, that Alinske woman (can’t spell her name), and that hot Guido.

[quote]Sam Nunberg was just on MSNBC in the last hour disparaging Cohen’s life decisions and saying the filings don’t point to any wrongdoing by Trump.

What is it about Trump that these people would lick the shit out of his dirty asshole and call it a 3 star Michelin meal?

10 years after Nixon resigned, people like my grandfather (about 1 in 4 voters) still believed that he was "railroaded" and unjustly "persecuted."

At least the same number of people will go to their graves believing Trump did nothing wrong and was a victim.

[quote]Sam Nunberg was just on MSNBC in the last hour disparaging Cohen’s life decisions and saying the filings don’t point to any wrongdoing by Trump.

Rather funny that the msnbc chyron read: "Sam Nunberg will appear before the House Judiciary in January".

Indeed, r20.

Ha! Cynthia Alskne just said “I think there are a lot of lawyers at the White House doing kegal exercises.”

R37, nothing in Trump's history suggests that he has the fortitude to try something like that. He bullies, manipulates, and blusters, but when he can't get his way--when he is confronted by united opposition--he changes course and goes onto the next scam. (The history of his failure with the Television City development in NYC is a good illustration of this). He is also a physical coward; that's why he doesn't visit war zones. He's unlikely to welcome flying bullets.

r42, let them die holding on to their belief that Trump was right. Life's too precious to waste in on people who refuse to see the truth.

He's going to emerge from this weekend diminished. The momentum has been clearly against him since the election. He's more and more isolated, especially with the repulsive but relatively sane Kelly leaving. His defenses are failing and it remains to be seen whether Congressional Republicans will be willing to take risks for him.

R46 This is somewhat like David Cay Johnston -who has written about Trump for 25 30 years and pegged him immediately as a con man and grifter-has suggested Trump might well do if impeached/convicted. Others, like Charles Blow in the Wash. Post have suggested similar actions by Trump. Yes, I can see him whipping his deplorable base into a violent frenzy. He would sooner see the country implode into violent chaos than leave office. He may be cowardly but he is a true demagogue. I can see him doing most anything. And the problem is, Congress is too weak to act against him. And Mattis and Pompeo both seem to kowtow to the blithering idiot. There are no checks and balances. The Republicans have gone to the dark side and Chuck Schumer is an idiot. Thank goodness for Pelosi-never thought I'd say that but she is a gutsy old gal.

Maybe I'm just in a sad and hopeless frame of mind about life and this world in general but I see terrible disaster in the next few years. Trump and many of those surrounding him are amoral (his family and Mitch McTurtle etc.) and whiloe I believe the country will survive, it will forever be damaged thanks to the Republican enablers and the Orange Trumpturd Tweeter/Tariff Man!!

Is he talking to the portrait of Nixon, yet?

As the months go by my hatred for trump voters increases rather than diminishes.

[quote] The Republicans have gone to the dark side

Let's play a little game, shall we? Pretend for the moment that yesterday's filing had not been about pResident 46-1 Bone Spurs, but rather about President Hillary Rodham Clinton. And it was she who had directed her personal lawyer to commit two election-law felonies. Can you predict what the Repuke's reaction would have been in that case? Perhaps more of the uneasy silence they've shown in the last 24 hours?

I think not, the hypocrites.

Forget impeachment, I suspect that there likely would have been mobs in Lafayette Square across from the WH with pitchforks and (Tiki) torches demanding she be executed on the spot.

[quote]Pretend for the moment that yesterday's filing had not been about pResident 46-1 Bone Spurs, but rather about President Hillary Rodham Clinton

I know!

I wish all reporters and newspeople ask this question when any Repug starts spouting 'No Collusion" and "Witchhunt".

And follow up by asking abut the Repug vouching 4 years of investigations if HRC won the election.

hush, r49. There are others in the military and in congress who realize what's going on. They are very aware how unhinged this fool is and I seriously doubt that the military would take an order from someone compromised by Russian intelligence.

They go into recess on the 21st for the holiday and they have to get another budget worked out before then. Fat Donnie will have to sit there and stew.

My bet is that someone - probably treason Barbie - has sat his fat ass down and told him he needs to resign before it gets worse. He will scream and rage and lash out but at some point, he will realize it is his only "out" and he will take it.

Right now he is testing where the weaknesses are but he is finding no give in the system anymore.

Come January 3, boiled owl Pelosi will put the fear of God into these traitors and every house committee will come out with subpoenas blazing.

So be of good cheer. Mueller has brought tidings of great joy. Flynn wore a wire.

We did our jobs and brought the blue wave. WE are Mueller's calvary. Take comfort in that.

Lots and lots of wishful thinking in these posts, as well as a lot of regurgitating of opinions despised as facts from "progressive" blogs.

I love how Michael Cohen's deep and long marionette lines keep his mouth in a permanent state of frowning. It's what he deserves for all the thuggery he engaged in on behalf of Trump for the last 15 years

[quote]Thank goodness for Pelosi-never thought I'd say that

[quote]boiled owl Pelosi

You know what, fuck you and the mayonnaise-covered dildo you rode in on.

Transcript of Comey’s testimony yesterday coming soon.

How much of Comey’s testimony will be redacted because he doesn’t say what they want to hear?

I looooooooove Nancy, those of you who don’t are fucking fools. This does not mean you can’t also want new leadership. But Nancy understands what’s happening and will keep this shit show on course. Chuck is a much bigger problem than Nancy imho.

Today is December 8th!!! We are so close to January 3rd I can almost feel it. He is literally going to get a hailstorm of subpoenas, he doesn’t even have the legal power to respond lololol. His allies are turning on him. Mueller cannot, I said Mueller canNOT, be stopped. I don’t CARE if he fires him, I don’t CARE if he gets a real lawyer, I don’t CARE if the Senate won’t cooperate, I don’t CARE!! He literally has countless lawsuits coming at him as I speak. It’s unstoppable now. Everyone who isn’t evil tied to our Fed understands we have a traitor in the WH. Everyone sees it!!! There is no hiding it. It’s all becoming public record. No one who loves America is going to just roll over, he truly underestimated all of us. They all did. He will died penniless, despised and rejected. Hopefully every worm tied to him will too.

To all my brothers and sisters here on the DL, I plan this week to buy some top shelf champagne that I will only uncork when he leaves office. Dom P isn’t very creative, but I can’t tell you what bearing the sound of the cork pop will be like for me. I cannot wait!! And I’m totally enjoying watching all this.

From that CNN article about Kelly leaving:

[quote]Ayers has told Trump that he wants to move back to his home state of Georgia at the end of the year, citing his young children, the official said. But Ayers offered to postpone it and become chief of staff temporarily. Trump, however, wants a two-year commitment.

I thought Ayers was supposed to be super ambitious, but if this is to be believed, he's looking to distance himself from both Pence and Trump. Things that make me go "Hmmm...."

Lao-Trump is a weak man. A loser. And very low-IQ.

A very informative Twitter post -- read the who way through -- from Kurt Eichenwald about the implications behind what is in the Cohen sentencing memo from Mueller. He cautions people not to jump to conclusions because we don't yet have all the facts, but it is not hard to see how with just a little bit more info from the SCO Fat Nixon is royally fucked.

Chill, r57.

Boiled owls are tough as hell. It was a compliment to Pelosi. She is the one who is going to put an end to this bullshit since the useless men won't.

And she isn't going to be intimidated by mean tweets or the freedumb carcass.

Game on.

[quote]Mueller never replies but keeps tightening the noose.

Mueller has not the slightest need to dignify Trump. He's stooping to conquer as the copious evidence leads him.

The more Trump spews about fake noose, the more Mueller follows through with accounts of widespread entitled illegality, objectively verified.

Trump has one shrill repetitive self-serving slogan. Mueller has thousands of interlinked documented facts. Guess who's in the commanding position.

R55, are you kidding? The evidence of trump's corruption is overwhelming. The fish rots from the head down. The first time I heard that saying was, strangely or not so strangely enough, when Michael Dukakis described Ronald Reagan 's administration. Apt then, apt now.

[quote]Ayers has told Trump that he wants to move back to his home state of Georgia at the end of the year, citing his young children, the official said.

When politicians and operatives retreat citing family and children, something's up.

Pres Bone Spurs needs to make arrangements for prison or execution, maybe?

Do you really believe that crap about Ayers wanting to spend time with his kids?

[quote]I thought Ayers was supposed to be super ambitious, but if this is to be believed, he's looking to distance himself from both Pence and Trump. Things that make me go "Hmmm...."

Picture it: Nick Ayers plowing a lingerie-clad Mike Pence while Mother directs the action.

r68, Are you insane? This is 2018 (almost 2019) and this is STILL the United States of America, nobody is going to be executed. Just stop.

It feels so many around him are going down first.

The Comey transcript has been released.

r71, hanging is still on the books for DC.

Treason remains a Capital offense.

Trump is a unique perp.

r74, It will never happen. The ACLU and about a thousand other liberal civil rights groups would scream to high heaven (even though most of them don't believe in it) if the government ever even attempted to execute anybody in this day and age.

You can't even get consensus in this country about capital punishment and you think executing someone will be allowed? Come on.

[quote]At least the same number of people will go to their graves believing Trump did nothing wrong and was a victim.

As will Trump himself. All of them are fully entitled to their wilful stupefaction and/or mental illness.

I respect Pelosi's political skills far more than those of Chuck Schumer.

Schumer is focused on pleasing the big banks, Wall Street, AIPAC, special financial interests, etc. He'll be mildly critical of Trump when he has to, but he has done little in combating this mess. He could have ripped into Lindsey Graham's nasty attacks on fellow Democrats over the Kavanaugh saga. He failed to go on an aggressive attack when McConnell refused to consider Merrick Garland for the SCOTUS while Obama was still President.

R61, it is probably precisely because Ayers is ambitious that he’s avoiding becoming Trump’s Chief of Staff. Who the fuck would want to be his CoS at this point and preside over the non-stop raining shitshow that’s going to be 2019? Hard pass from everybody, I would think.

I'd like to see Schumer replaced.

[quote]you think executing someone will be allowed?

It's not only allowed but required by law in many U.S. jurisdictions.

Your friend is a genius, r30.

Ripping those kids away from their parents was so evil. Hopefully he will be punished for that if nothing else.

There is no worse a sorry than being a baby and being ripped away from a mother. These kids are going to be screwed.

Hopefully they will sue this wannabe mafia family for damages.

sorrow

And those in r80 are for state convictions.

The U.S. federal government also has death as a penalty for many crimes, including treason.

[quote]The method of execution of federal prisoners for offenses under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 is that of the state in which the conviction took place. If the state has no death penalty, the judge must choose a state with the death penalty for carrying out the execution.

[quote]Class Action Law Suit. Great idea.

I agree!!!

So true, r77. Democrats need better Senate leadership in the future. For now, Schumer is a solid Minority Leader for a potential impeachment trial. If she weren't running for president, Amy Klobuchar would be perfect.

Sue them to oblivion!

R80, I got the impression that r75 was drawing a distinction between the federal government hanging/shooting a prisoner, and lethal injections at the state level?

No idea. We all know convicted criminals are still executed in this country. But reading a passionate argument to the contrary made me laugh pretty hard.

He likes to rip families apart for some reason it’s like a fettish. Some people would rather hear cries than laughter, and prefer tears over smiles.

Of course I was talking about the federal govenment r88.

As in, what are the chances that the federal govenment would ever execute a president of the US for treason in this day in age?

Not bloodly likely.

I would love to know where the dubious alt-right Nazi, Stephen Miller fits into Mueller’s investigation. You know he drowns cats in his backyard. Pure fucking evil.

R37 here. I generally agree with R46's assessment of Trump, but in this particular case I think Trump believes he is not alone. The fact that he has had Putin's backing, that he is part of a worldwide Extreme Right movement, and that he has his Deplorables, gives him false courage. As long as he has backing and an audience he will Showboat and might do anything. Hopefully his GOP enablers in the Senate will decide to cut their losses and there is enough patriotism in our Military leadership to take him out if he goes to far. I can almost picture the Department of Justice sending federal marshals to the White House or more likely to Mar A Lago, to arrest him if he refuses to leave. Trump is real 3rd world. He may try anything. Hiu own Secret Service may be forced to stand down for the marshals.

I only posted this as it REMAINS a possibility.

Possibility

.

r74

[QUOTE] —"C'mon, really go for it, kids."

Please tell me this was an AbFab Patsy Stone reference.

I will try to find out so more info for you guys.

Where do these people get their suits? It’s like Dick Tracy but real life.

[quote]As in, what are the chances that the federal govenment would ever execute a president of the US for treason in this day in age? Not bloodly likely.

Eh. Had it been President HRC it would have been demanded AND it would have been made a National Holiday so all could view it.

Ayers is smart. Who in the right mind would want to be COS for Trump now?

The Kurt Eichenwald Twitter thread about yesterday’s filing is really illuminating.

So Ayers is now hesitating? If he were smart and expected a future in politics, he should.

R100, here's a link to an article about that.

I know a Trump execution for treason isn't at all likely. But a guy can dream ...

[quote]Eh. Had it been President HRC it would have been demanded AND it would have been made a National Holiday so all could view it.

And they would also try to make it mandatory viewing in schools.

Except in Texas, r104, where HRC and Helen Keller no longer exist.

I want executions. This is too bad to let people off the hook with jail time. This has to be punished bigly.

Did he get booed at the game?

If Trump and Pence were both indicted, who would the Republican party nominate for 2020? Would there be another 17 candidates?

Washington Post:

‘Siege warfare’: Republican anxiety spikes as Trump faces growing legal and political perils

Pres Bone Spurs is escalating. He is so unhinged I wonder what limits his staff will place on him. From what Tillerson said, how can ANYONE support this maniac? And his juvenile response to him was.....there aren't words honestly.

From above:

Trump’s lead outside attorney, Rudolph W. Giuliani, said he and his team are busy writing a defiant “counter report” to Mueller, which the president boasted this week was 87 pages long. Giuliani described the effort as a collaboration in which he, Jay Sekulow, Jane Raskin and other lawyers draft different sections and then trade them among the group, debating how to frame various passages on the president’s conduct and Russian interference.

“We’re writing out a lot and will pick and choose what to include. We’re trying to think through every possibility,” Giuliani said. “I’m sure we’ll take the lead in defending [Trump] publicly, if he needs defense, like we always do.”

Lindsey Graham promoting Trump for 2020 on Fox and dissing Joe Biden.

The really scary part is that Trump is ONLY safe while he's president, so why would he ever go, unless promised a pardon.

Now suppose he hangs on until 2020 and loses the election (goddess willing) can you REALLY picture a peaceful transition of power, as he received from the president he accused of not being legitimate? No. Way.

There is going to be trouble ahead.

R108 don't worry, it isn't as though Vlad isn't already working on it.

R106

I want to win the lottery when the aftertax payout is more than $100 million, have a twelve inch dick and a 31 inch waistline. All are less likely than Trump's execution.

Executing him would make him more of a martyr in the eyes of the illiterates/greedheads/racists/nationalists who support him. It won't happen. He won't even be found guilty by the craven, gutless Rethugs in the Senate if he's impeached because they fear defeat by the crazies the next time they have a primary opponent.

Mueller is so much smarter than Day-Glo Donny and his cut-rate Roy Cohn, Ghouliani: he's going for the crimes, plain and simple, not a political decision.

What I took from that article is that Steve Bannon is still advising the White House.

For those saying that the US would never execute a President for Treason....Thats exactly WHY they would do it. If it is proven that Trump conspired with Russia and it rises to Treason, they would have no choice. The Constitutionalists will support it too. Its one of the few crimes mentioned in the Constitution as punishable by death. It will have to be done to make an example that you dont sell out our country for your own self interests and that of a hostile foreign nation. Its a crime committed against our country and every person living in it. It needs to be taken seriously. The Rosenbergs were executed for a lot less.

From that WP article....

Former House speaker Newt Gingrich said Clinton’s experience in 1998, when the embattled president questioned the special prosecutor and warned of GOP overreach, is instructive for Trump and Republicans, showing them how to be both combative and confident amid chaos.

“You can’t have that many smart lawyers, with the full power of the government, and not have something bad come out,” Gingrich said of the special counsel’s team. “Mueller has to find something, like Trump jaywalked 11 times. The media will go crazy for three days, screaming, ‘Oh, my God! Oh, my God!’”

But, Gingrich said, “This isn’t a crisis moment for Trump or the party. Remember, we thought we had Clinton on the ropes, but Clinton kept smiling and his popularity went up.”

Newt needs to be told this is NOTHING like what Clinton did. The public did not care and rightfully so.

This is far, far worse.

Newt is a fucking moron.

Newt is trying to gently prepare the base that something - anything - will be found, and he's laying out the Republican strategy of trying to minimize whatever is found.

They're all whistling past the graveyard at this point. Fat Nixon is in a lot of trouble. People will begin to distance themselves from him. Quietly, perhaps, but most definitely.

Is this the new troll M.O.: trying to distract with nonsense talk about executions?

Let’s stay focused.

Comey in his closed door testimony made brief reference to leaks in the NY FBI office forcing his hand before the election. There was an investigation that was as not yet complete when he was fired. Presumably, it’s still going on?

Giuliani needs to be in cuffs as much as any of them.

Trump needs to be impeached (the House will do this no doubt...and it better be fucking damning!) , removed from office, charged, convicted, lose his business and sent away to jail a pauper.

R123, the House might but the Senate will not.

If the evidence is damning then the Senate likely will. I mean, look at the amount of damning things said about him (leaked) from his own staff? They all know he is a huge liability and there is no way they want that anchor around their necks. Unless they are all compromised as well.

The Senate might depending on how many of them are indicted!

I used to think The Senate wouldn't either, R124 but more and more I think they might have no choice. What could happen is a deal for him to resign. As this shitstorm continues, the Senate and Presidency for Repubs in 2020 and beyond is in great jeopardy.

I hope Roger Stone and his two clowns are next, and then Mueller starts with the brats. Junior Mint, Jared and then for dessert, Ivanka. Make Cheeto rave. And then bring down the axe on him and Pence.

Republicans are really the New Confederate Party.

I find it hard to believe they couldn’t find 20 Republicans to agree to convict him if Trump is shown to have committed multiple felonies (and you know he has).

They might be afraid of “the base”, but they cannot win elections with just Trump’s base of looney supporters. If Trump is shown to be the most criminal president this country has ever had—5 or 10x worse than Nixon, let’s say—public support will erode. He’ll lose most of the moderate Republicans and independents. And for the Senate Rs to see that and not dump/convict him before 2020? It would be political suicide for them. 2020 would be a bloodbath.

If they convict him, they might *anger* Trump voters, but those Trump voters wouldn’t suddenly leave the party or decide never to vote again. They would STILL vote Republican.

The GOP Senators can’t turn on Trump because they will lose the base. They won’t do it.

If the base turns on them, the only place to go to make up for the loss is among the independents. They won’t get enough of them without a fundemantal change in their party’s politics. They won’t do it.

Remember after 2012 there was supposed to be all this reflecting. Soften up on immigration, make economic policies more middle class friendly, broaden the tent, etc. Instead they doubled down *harder.* And won bigly.

They unleashed the hardest core racism/misogyny and vulture capitaism on us and won anyway. Fuck your feelings, anything that brings on liberal tears goes. Their base will not accept any retreat from any of it now. And neither will the leadership.

And remember, you have to consider Mueller’s report PLUS all the House investigations which will turn up even more damning evidence against Trump. You can bet on it.

R131, I maintain that the loss of soft conservatives, moderates, and independents will fuck the Senate Republicans way worse if they don’t convict.

What will drive their decision is poll numbers and calculation. They’ll have to actually take into consideration Democrats who voted for Trump, independents, Republicans who didn’t vote for Trump, etc etc.

What will drive them is whether Trump delivers voters to or away from them. So long as the base supports Trump, they will not turn on him. That doesn’t mean they won’t try to negotiate something behind closed doors, but what’s great about that is they can’t have any assurance that Trump won’t turn on them publicly anyway.

For fucks sake they already have GINGRICH of all people making the rounds selling the narrative (which major media is happy to bullhorn, trust) that impeachment is an overreach because look how it backfired with Clinton. There is going to be a very loud repetitive insistent chorus for the next 2 years that impeachment is just not the right way to do this. All the while, the same pundits will be wringing their hands wondering when oh when will Trump do the right thing. They’ve learned nothing from 2016; in fact 2016 went down just how they wanted.

Not if they have a primary in 2020 and a lot of Republicans do. Deplorables aren't that smart but they have long memories and they vote in primaries. Democrats who voted for Trump, independents, Republicans who didn’t vote for Trump et al won't be a problem then. If a senator from a state that went overwhelmingly for Trump votes to ditch Donny they're gonna get fucked in a primary and they know it.

^ Yup. Even the GOP leaders who are smart enough to see the long term danger of supporting Trump know they have to fake it enough to get through the primaries.

Again, they supposedly had this come to Jesus moment after 2012. They’re going to ride the last gasp of the angry white voter to the bitter end.

By the time we are finished with that shitstain in North Carolina we will have picked up 41 seats. That is the biggest gain by either party, in the history of our country. The Senate map looks very hostile for the Republicans in 2020. The probability that we will gain control of both houses is very high. If we do not get rid of Trump before then I can fucking guarantee he will get impeached, and he will get convicted by the Senate in 2021. Gone. Now. The Republicans might realize that he is no longer the asset they thought he was, and they will never get both houses of Congress to agree on any legislation in the next session. So, it is possible that either McConnell decides to hang Trump out to dry and turn on him, in 2019, or the Dems simply keep Trump bottled up and keep investigating him while they stop the Senate from doing anything. I know you want to see blood on the floors, but Mueller can either test the Law and indict Trump tomorrow, or he can deliver his report to Congress in 2019, and we start holding hearings. But if we play this smartly, we can have Trump's head on a platter in 2021. Absolutely.

That assumes he's re-elected. You can't impeach nor convict an ex-President. That's why Mueller is looking at the financial stuff - stuff he can be indicted for and be judged by a jury, not the Senate.

R138 Once he's the ex-President, he would be in even more trouble! His crimes exposed through Mueller aren't going away.

Chances of The Donald getting impeached is practically zero. I would rather see congress torture him and his cohorts until 2020.

R139 Depends on how he becomes an ex-President. If he resigns as part of a deal, you can be sure part of that deal will be no prosecution. If he resigns before 2020, you can be sure Pence will pardon him.

The word "cohort" is a plural noun.

You're welcome.

Pence will turn on him yesterday if Pence is in any danger. Trump can’t and won’t trust Pence to do anything for him.

Trump will cling to the office to the bitter end, nails digging into the wood floors as you try to drag him out, because he’s only “safe” while in office. We need to start planning NOW to combat what will be the most sinister election fraud ever in 2020.

I want that disgusting slob, Gingrich, to be executed. In public. Hanging would be good. I will kick the fucking chair out from under him.

Bannon and the Mercer's have committed treason and need to be locked up and their assets stripped.

No mercy for these traitors. Stupid deplorables need to grasp the gravity of their treachery and their own complicity in treason

R137 here. I was looking at it from the perspective of him ranting and toughing it out in 2019, pulling all sorts of tricks, like making his new AG fire Mueller or trying to suppress his report. All of this resulting in him trying to hang on, and very likely insist on running again and maybe even getting Russian help to win. This is my worst case scenario. Worst case scenario, to me, is if nothing happens to him this year, and he runs and wins re-election. Personally I don't think he will win because people are truly outraged and he will be looking at the economy going into the shitter, and his relationships with the rest of the world will deteriorate further. But if he loses, he will be looking at the full weight of all his wrong doing coming back on him like a ton of bricks. He will have no where to run or hide and he will no longer be President. And rest assured the Democrat who wins will not pardon him. So if he hangs on, runs again, and loses he is fucked. He has to be convinced he cannot win and he must make a deal to leave. If I were advising him that's what I'd tell him. But if he runs and wins we will still crucify his ass and he will definitely not last the year in 2021. That is all. It was hypothetical.

R141 But Pence is part of the crime... He's already being dragged in by Manafort. There is no way out for Trump/Pence and the rest of the Team Trump, but they are just pretending like none of this is happening. This is the last stand for American democracy. If they get away with all this, there is no rules for elections, and hence, no real legitimacy for the government. Banana Republic of America is our future.

Great title

I'm not disagreeing with you, R146, but how? If Trump is impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate, Pence becomes the President. With the power to pardon which he can use until he's impeached and convicted.

Which won't happen on the same afternoon they vote to send Trump packing. They have to try 'em one at a time.

The Senate Republicans wouldn’t vote to convict Trump even if there was video of him drowning babies.

Rachel Maddow's Bag Man podcast is about the investigations into Spiro Agnew. The people at the DoJ felt like they were in a race to get Agnew to resign, because they were terrified that Nixon would end up impeached, Agnew would become President, and there was no way to touch him at that point.

Part of me wonders if she's saying that more is known about what's going on behind the scenes with Mueller than she's able to report.

R150 Yes, that is why there is talk that Pence would be indicted first through his Manafort connection.

R148, assuming Pence isn't targeted first, Pence has been or will be told in no uncertain terms if he wants any kind of deal or leniency he will not assist Trump or any Trump associate/family member in any way, especially via pardon.

Pence would never win an election, so if he succeeds Trump he will only have less than one term to do what he wants, then he's thrown to the wolves. He's going to protect himself at all costs.

R149 There is a tipping point where the fear of losing their Senate seats outweigh their foolish loyalty to a clown like Trump. We're heading there in 2019.

[quote]I'm not disagreeing with you, [R146], but how? If Trump is impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate, Pence becomes the President. With the power to pardon which he can use until he's impeached and convicted.

But how what? There is no way that Pence pardons Trump, even if by some miracle he isn’t indicted and removed from the office of VP himself. He would be fucking impeached himself if he pardoned Trump. Good god. That’s abuse of power, an impeachable offense. He has zero incentive to pardon Trump anyway.

But I don’t see him hanging on through a Trump removal anyway.

While we’re on the subject, can someone clear this up once and for all: Who brought whom into the Trump campaign? Was it MANAFORT who brought PENCE on board, or did PENCE bring MANAFORT on board? I keep hearing both. Not just on the internet but on MSNBC and Mueller She Wrote as well.

It’s funny that it keeps coming up, too, and that half of the people bringing it up get it wrong—just goes to show how many people are thinking about a possible indictment for Pence.

There is no one clean in this administration. Even if they were passably clean coming in, they look like corrupt piece of shit when they leave. Mueller didn't need to look hard to find the crimes, because these criminals think they are above the law and never bother to hide anything! All they do or think they need to do is lie and threaten/bribe people to cover their lies. Trump is the root of corruption. He will not hesitate to corrupt the whole government to save himself. That's the dark future we are facing.

r55 "Despised as facts"? I assume you mean "disguised as facts", Boris.

r154....Manafort brought Pence into the campaign. Trump wanted someone like Christy, but Manafort had "other" plans and staged plane trouble in Indiana and pretty much ambushed Trump into picking Pence. I think Pence even went public before Trump announced him as vp.

r154...not to mention, Manafort and Trump knew each other for years....Manafort even lived in Trump Tower....and is an ex business partner of Roger Stone, a friend of Trump.

There was no way Trump was going to be elected either.

Things don't always go the way we think they will or should.

Assuming more than a dozen Republicans in the Senate were to vote to impeach Trump next year (not likely) Pence would be President. He could treat Trump the same way Ford pardoned Nixon, claiming on the first day of HIS presidency, "Our long national nightmare is over." And pardoning him a month later.

It fucked his political career, too, but he did it.

All this talk about Trump being likely to dig his fingernails into the walls than be removed from the Oval Office just makes me think of that SNL sketch where Nancy Reagan has to be carried away. "I can help you, Barbara. It will be fun ...!"

does anyone else wonder how much lower he can go?

Donald J. Trump ‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 8h8 hours ago

Watched Da Nang Dick Blumenthal on television spewing facts almost as accurate as his bravery in Vietnam (which he never saw). As the bullets whizzed by Da Nang Dicks head, as he was saving soldiers.... 1:58 PM - 8 Dec 2018

....left and right, he then woke up from his dream screaming that HE LIED. Next time I go to Vietnam I will ask “the Dick” to travel with me! 28,719 replies 12,060 retweets 47,342 likes

All politics is local. Republicans support Trump because they can't afford to upset the Deplorables in their Congressional district or state. Because of gerrymandering of the House and the Republican Constitutional advantage in the Senate, the Deplorables have tremendous power in spite of being a minority in the country as a whole.

"does anyone else wonder how much lower he can go?"

How deep is the fetid swamp?

R162 That's changing fast with the Dem wins at the state level and the investigation into the election cheating by Republicans. By 2020, these Republicans up for elections are going to face a whole different reality.

r161 so says President Bone Spurs! How many deferments was that?

[quote]Assuming more than a dozen Republicans in the Senate were to vote to impeach Trump next year (not likely) Pence would be President. He could treat Trump the same way Ford pardoned Nixon, claiming on the first day of HIS presidency, "Our long national nightmare is over." And pardoning him a month later.

There is no way it plays out like this.

The NYT weighs in

R159, Ford wasn't facing possible charges of his own. He had the luxury. In fact, he was likely selected for his willingness to provide Nixon some cover.

Really good article from NYT @ R167, which also breaks some news, I think, about Ghouliani and Sekulow meeting with the DoJ and Mueller’s team to “express concern” about Trump being named in their court filings. How quaint.

House is done for the year this Thursday, 12/13/18. Senate is done the following day.

A new world in January! 👍🏽✅😁

I heard Comey was meeting with the House Republicans AGAIN the week after next, R170.

R109, so juicy, right?

However, I don't like that the press is essentially advising him on what he's overlooked doing in preparation (e.g., no war room).

R168 Ford was brought in as the GOP cleaner, so of course he wasn't caught up in the scandal. The GOP would need to find another cleaner after Trump/Pence implodes.

R171, correct. See, e.g., 12/7/18 Washington Post article about Comey's testimony on that Friday.

So some kind of continuance for this inquiry.

Comey testifies again Monday, 12/17/18.

R169, that came out when Corsi made his crazed series of appearances on TV publicizing his refusal to enter into a plea agreement with Mueller, but was lost in the general insanity of it all.

Found the article.

Could someone summarize what the Repubs hope to gain by having Comey testify yet again, at this late date? What's their stupid angle here?

What’s going on? Here’s my best guess.

Cohen has a lot more he could give. The government knows that. They want to crack him. Moreover, even on the stuff he’s given them so far, he is a less valuable witness so long as he refuses to be fully candid. They are tired of playing his coy little game, and political considerations require speed. So they’ve accelerated sentencing, and set up a classic “good cop – bad cop” squeeze. New York has told the judge to hammer Cohen. By contrast, Mueller looks like a generous friend. Cohen—who like every white collar criminal I’ve ever known is undoubtedly scared silly of going to prison—is facing 4-5 years (and, not improbably, a good deal more if the judge is impatient with his recalcitrance). This crystallizes his choices. Either he quits fiddling around or he goes to the Big House for a long while.

I don’t think this was posted previously.

Prior to his apparent nomination, Trump’s new AG pick, William Barr, was interviewed personally by Trump at the White House to defend Trump in the Mueller investigation.

Of course, while speaking to reporters about Barr, Trump preemptively lied that he never met him before now.

spin, r178.

And they are hoping that Comey forgets a detail or two then they can scream about him lying to congress or giving false testimony.

it's just a bunch of monkeys throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks.

[quote]You can't impeach nor convict an ex-President.

Why would you even want to? Impeachment and conviction by congress only removes the elected president from office.

R178:

"Yes, because it is a waste of time to start with," Nadler said in response to a question about whether he would end the probe. Nadler characterized the Republican investigation as a political sideshow that aims to distract from special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into possible ties between the Trump campaign and Russia.

"The entire purpose of this investigation is to be a diversion of the real investigation, which is Mueller. There is no evidence of bias at the FBI and this other nonsense they are talking about," he continued.

Good summary.

The Republicans want to expose the "deep state". Comey is a soft target. He is a fool and the Republicans will find it easy to embarrass him. In addition, the Democrats have no interest in defending Comey.

OK. there's a "tradition" not a real law with standing that you don't indict a sitting President. It has some legal standing at the justice department, but I believe it is flawed. WHY? Because of Residential succession. If you can indict a Vice President, then you can indict the sitting President. It's logic. Now they can argue that the Constitution gives us a process to remove a President, but that does not prohibit him getting indicted first. In fact, IMO if you did indict him, then the House would have to impeach him based on the evidence submitted when he is charged, and then he would get a trial and go to fucking jail. So all this other bullshit is simply an interpretation of the law that is flawed in its logic. AmIright?

[quote]He would be fucking impeached himself if he pardoned Trump. Good god. That’s abuse of power, an impeachable offense.

There are no limits placed on a sitting president’s Pardon powers. So exercising them is not “abuse of power.”

There’s also no grounds for impeachment for “abuse of power.” The grounds for impeachment and removal are “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors".

R189 Except treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors are abuses of power. Next you will say "abuse of power" is not a crime.

R189, abuse of power is a high crime/misdemeanor.

I know this from listening to Jill Wine-Banks.

Maybe pardoning Trump for 20+ different criminal charges wouldn’t be considered an abuse of power, but what incentive would Pence have to do that?

All I was trying to say is that an indictment ought to come before impeachment not after. Nothing in the Constitution prohibits an indictment of a sitting President.

[quote]Comey is a soft target. He is a fool and the Republicans will find it easy to embarrass him. In addition, the Democrats have no interest in defending Comey.

Say WHAT now?!

Not sure exactly what you're geting at, but Agnew was indicted and plead guilty to one count of tax evasion, not the far more serious charges of conspiracy, bribery, extortion, and tax fraud, all which occured when he was governor of Maryland. The crimes he is alleged to have committed had nothing to do with his acts in office as Nixon's VP, impeachment for which (if he committed any) are limited to treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. What are the charges that could lead to Pence's resignation? That Manafort selected him? That he covered for Flynn? That he lied to Mueller? Pence was quoted as saying he be happy to talk to Mueller but so far I can't find any reference saying he did.

R170 The house has pushed back adjournment for the Holiday recess until December 21st.

GOP afraid of the base:

Why have people always allowed Trump to get away with all his lies and his crimes? I am beginning to think that America is evil to it's core.

R194, Agnew's plea deal was carefully negotiated; it was limited with the understanding that he would resign after admitting guilt, in order to prevent exposure of the many criminal acts that he committed while he was Vice President, including bribery and tax evasion.

R197 Of course, the US always had its evil side and it always will. Colonialism and racism (white people's thirst for power over others) are at the heart of the US origin story after all, not just democracy and human rights as they like to preach as the US ascends into a world leader. The evil hasn't gone away just hid in darkness until someone like Trump summons that darkness froth. No real politicians would do it because they know the risks, but a power hungry ignoramus would

This talk about Ford as the cleaner Republican makes me wonder, is there anybody today who could serve in that capacity? I guess we won't know for a while, but I want to believe there's one relatively uncompromised Republican.

[quote]Except treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors are abuses of power.

Except ... what? Again, “abuse of power” is not an impeachable offense.” Stop stating it as if it’s a defined term in a law that leads to impeachment.

We already have one ill-defined impeach and convict guideline, please don’t layer on more which aren’t even there.

r201 Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. Nixon was impeached for abuse of power. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Agnew didn't plead guilty. He pleaded "No contest." Nolo contendere" is what I remember as a kid. It sounded so foreign!

[quote]Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. Nixon was impeached for abuse of power.

Not exactly, R202. The Judicial Committee in the House approved 3 articles of impeachment to be brought forward to a vote against Nixon, with one of them being abuse of power. Nixon resigned before the full House could formally vote on those articles, however, so he was never actually impeached. Had Nixon not resigned, he certainly would have been impeached.

So you are correct in that abuse of power is an impeachable offense and that the Committee members thought he had abused his power, but it's not accurate to say that he WAS ever impeached for abuse of power or anything else.

R202: Nixon was not impeached. The Judiciary Committee approved three articles of impeachment against Nixon, for obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress, and reported those articles to the House of Representatives. He resigned before the House voted to impeach him. Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson were both impeached by the House but both were acquited by a vote of the Senate.

This thread is on and popin’

Trump is giving away the game. He said the rioters in France were shouting his name! The Extreme Right worldwide is creating chaos. He'd love to generate some chaos here so he can call out the military. He's already said that if he were ousted his supporters would become violent. Maybe that's their endgame? (No one in France was calling out his name.)

This is why I've always said law enforcement on a national and local level must be prepared. Anything to avoid the possible martial law declaration.

[quote]] Abuse of power is an impeachable offense. Nixon was impeached for abuse of power. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Nixon wasn’t impeached, you low-information character.

Here is what the judiciary committee passed anc recommended to the house:

[quote]RESOLVED, That Richard M. Nixon, President of the United States, is impeached for [bold]high crimes and misdemeanours[/bold], and that the following articles of impeachment to be exhibited to the Senate:

He would not have been impeached for “abuse of power,” not the grounds for impeachment in the constitution.

Twitter is not an education in anything. Sorry.

Hey R201, Abuse Of Power is an impeachable offense. Suck it.

"High crimes and misdemeanors" in the Constitution is a term of art and is not explicitly defined anywhere. In historical terms, misdemeanor in the Framers' time had a much broader meaning than the narrow specific meaning as we use in it reference to criminal codes today. High crimes usually referred to bad conduct unique to a person in a powerful position, so usually related to violating some kind of public trust or duty. So an impeachable offense is basically whatever the House decides is one. There is nothing that requires that impeachment must be for an explicit federal or state crime, although given how rare it is (and is meant to be) and given how much our federal code has ballooned since the Constitution was drafted, it's not likely to happen without an actual crime or violation of a serious civil or administrative code.

And R209, the Articles of Impeachment for Nixon that were passed by the House Judiciary Committee did in fact include that he "misused" his executive powers. So you should be more cautious about throwing "low information" insults around.

High crimes and misdemeanors means whatever a congress will impeach and convict a president for.

For Example, Hillary would have been impeached and removed already under this corrupt Republican Congress for her emails. That would meet the criteria as General Petraeus was convicted of the misdemeanor of badly handling his emails with his bed mate. It is whatever the want to believe. Just like settled law is an illusion, as law is settled until it is revisited.

Never trust a Republican.

[quote]Hillary would have been impeached and removed already under this corrupt Republican Congress

She might have been impeached, but she wouldn't have been removed any more than Bill was. The Republicans couldn't convict him because they couldn't get any Democratic votes, and they wouldn't have any now.

r213, just slipped on the Senate super majority. Thank you for pointing this out.

[quote]So you should be more cautious about throwing "low information" insults around.

Nixon was not impeached. Do you know what impeachment is, low info? The judiciary committee does not impeach presidents.

[quote]Hey [R201], Abuse Of Power is an impeachable offense. Suck it.

Chanting something repeatedly doesn’t make it so, low info. You might want to read the grounds for the impeachment as recommended by the judiciary committee.

[quote]"High crimes and misdemeanors" in the Constitution is a term of art and is not explicitly defined anywhere.

At least it’s USED in the constitution which “abuse of power” is not. lol!

Idiot at R215, I never said Nixon was impeached. I referenced the Articles of Impeachment against him that came out of the Judiciary Committee.

Bye, R216. Asshole.

R213 Even the most idiotic Republicans (of course, Trumpies are beyond idiotic) know that got nothing with emails other than making noise. You can't prove a crime by saying we have no evidence because it must have been deleted! LOL It's as believable as the dog ate my homework.

By the way, one of the charges against Andrew Johnson, who WAS impeached, was that he "did attempt to bring into disgrace, ridicule, hatred, contempt and reproach the Congress of the United States, and the several branches thereof, to impair and destroy the regard and respect of all the good people of the United States for the Congress and legislative power thereof...."

And there was never any corrupt intent on Hillary’s part (what the fuck did they think she was doing with her private server? Disseminating child porn?). They can never prove intent. They are beyond pathetic.

Wow, R220. Who does that sound like?

Legally a sitting VIP and POTUS can be immpeached. But in this case it's very unlikely to happen since the senate is run by the Republican Party which is loyal to its conservative cause and very likely compromised and blackmailed into going along with Trump thanks to Putin and Russia (hacking of their emails?).

And the Republican Party must know that sticking with Trump will be their doom with the voters. The midterm election showed that Trump pissed off enough people for them to vote Democratic. The release of Mueller's investigation and the public hearings with Trump and his associates, including Republican senators, will very likely piss off even more people and even Republican voters may very well sit out the 2020 election because of all the (undeniable proof of) corruption staring them right in the face.

I believe the GOP will beg both Putin and Trump to go silently so none of the GOP's crimes (voter fraud and how they do it being all laid out in the hacked emails?) will come to light. If that doesn't work they either have to give up and face the music or hire someone to get rid of both Putin and Trump.

[quote]The house has pushed back adjournment for the Holiday recess until December 21st.

Any thoughts on exactly what evil they have planned that they needed the extra time to accomplish (or, going by their previous record, fuck up bigly)?

I'm much too young to remember the details of Watergate.

they still have not passed a budget, r224.

The CR was set to expire on Dec 7 but they did a 2 week CR because of HWB's funeral.

They will be squabbling over the budget for two weeks.

Yeah, but what else, R226? Surely they are going to try to push some shit through quickly before they lose control and they are now giving themselves an extra week to accomplish it. I heard someone from the Progressive caucus say they are all on guard and paying attention to see what they might try and to be ready to counter it because the Repugs know no one is paying attention because of the holidays.

R227 What could they do that the Dems can't reverse when they take control?

I suppose they could introduce and pass a piece of legislation that the senate would pass and trump sign. A horrible law the courts (good luck) could undo? I don't know. They are spiteful, mean, and angry.

Yes, the charge of impeachment cited @ R220 could be used word for word today. It's not unlike one of John Brennan's tweets.

I'm not a republican Trumper, but I believe those idiots think Hillary's secret email server will reveal that the Steele dossier was Hill's brainchild. They think this dossier (and this alone) caused the need for a special prosecutor (Mueller). That makes the entire investigation invalid. And, voila, it therefore, is an unfair "witch hunt". It's as stupid as that!

INSANE highlights (or lowlights) from Jeanine Pirro tonight lmao!! The crazy lady is not backing down at all in defending Trump and bashing Mueller + Democrats

I really wonder if FOX will just keep this charade up even if the very worst of the worst ends up being true about Trump.

They keep saying no collusion, no crimes. Their viewers believe this shit! Millions of Americans get riled up and angry and think Trump is being targeted for no good reason. This is just madness. I cannot believe the people at FOX can look at themselves in the mirror with this shit they spew

Was the Manafort stuff published as well as the Cohen stuff?

I am really lost here with all of the nonstop hypothetical musings on executions and pardons.

I wish Mueller can follow the Russian/NRA money straight to Fox News' doorstep. It would make a lot of sense since Faux has been stirring and spewing republican shit for decades now. I want to see Murdoch's moldy ass in prison. He was the owner and held sole responsibility when all this went down.

We had so much information given to us Thursday and Friday, but this entire thread is just pardons, impeachments and more gobbledygook.

How wasteful and distracting.

R233 the Manafort sentencing memo was released. My phone is old and I can't link it. I googled Manafort sentencing memo and it came up.

Thank you all for posting. I can't sleep and have learned a lot.

This is fascinating!

Why aren’t we discussing this?

R237 The problem with the information released is that it's all so incomplete and redacted. You can see Trump has committed crimes, but you don't know whether he will actually be held responsible or whether anyone will be up to the task of charging him.

I don't think Fox News is directly linked to Russian money. Rupert Murdoch? Very likely, but I don't think that it was funneled through Fox News to get to him or their pundits. I think for the likes of Hannity shell companies in, say, Panama (remember the Panama Papers?) were used to get the bribes to them.

With all that has come out this week (and that will likely continue to come out), one thought occurred to me.

The next general election is in less than two years, which means Trump will have to start campaigning soon. I can't imagine he'd win another term with the dirt that's already out there, let alone what will likely get revealed while he's on the campaign trail doing his little rallies.

How in the world could the GOP actually ALLOW him to run again? They would be all but guaranteeing us the White House for the next 4-8 years.

I think we're going to see a fake excuse from Trump in 2019 about how he doesn't "need" to run again, which will allow the GOP to try to find a candidate they think can beat any Dem in 2020.

Stay gone, Junior Mint!

Holy Cow!

The Today Show just had the female reporter (Kelly?) scoffing at Trump's "No collusion!" shrieking, stating that Trump had provided "No proof, OF COURSE" very flippantly!!!!!

Chuck Todd agreed it's BAD for Trump with impeachment processes "INEVITABLE"!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE FUCKING TIDE IS TURNING!!!!!!!!!

As mentioned in the last thread, FOX News, doesn’t have to be directly corrupted by Russia. They are fucked, like the many Republican candidates, because the brand on which they are based has now been irreparably tainted by Trump.

Independents (even formerly Republican leaning independents) are fleeing in droves.

R241 I think the lying about Moscow Trump Tower deal continuing into the campaign really turned the tide against him. It involved direct contact between Trump's inner circle with Putin's inner circle all during the campaign with money and deals going back and forth. You can't get more colluding than that.

If I were the Republican party, I would want Pence to resign before Xmas. Then install a safe candidate - a modern-day Gerald Ford - to become the VP for when the subpoenas start flying. It's only going to get harder to install a new VP when the new Congress starts.

R245 It won't matter. If they go to that length, they are admitting Trump is guilty. The GOP will be politically dead come 2020 anyway for foisting Trump on this country.

They won’t do anything, r245, just like they haven’t done shit the last two years.

I just don't get how the GOP doesn't understand how much they are damaging their brand by shrugging their shoulders about Trump.

Couldn't they win more voters at this point by coming out and publicly saying, "Yeah, we fucked up. We're not gonna take Trump's bullshit anymore. We are in favor of President Pence, and we promise to make it up to you in 2020 with a different great candidate!"

Of course, doing that would require some small sense of integrate, with no one in the GOP seems to posses.

integrate = integrity

"Did he get booed at the game?"

The morning paper says Trump received several rounds of applause. Also, the planned protest outside the stadium fizzed when no one showed up.

To the original poster who suggested Philly would surely embarrass Trump: you are an idiot and you don't know jack shit about it. Whole swatches of northeast Philly, the most populous area of the city, are pro Trump and adore him. It's so obvious who ever made the original post about who Philly would protest the arrival of Trump seldom ventures outside of his/her echo chamber of the two rivers, Spring Garden Street and Washington Avenue.

The thing is any reasonable opportunist would think "Ok, I need to re-invent myself because the guy I am associated with (Trump) is going to be toxic and will drag me down with him if I stick with him!". But for whatever reason the GOP sticks with Trump. Do they think the Kochs and the Mercers will throw their money at them when the Republican Party gets deafeated "bigly" because the voters are put off by Trump and what comes out in the Mueller investigation?

R250, well, guess what? My family is from NE Philly (I am in the burbs) and there are plenty of people who can’t stand Dump. I made it clear in my post that if the locals were there, they would have no problem booing. The problem is the game probably didn’t have any locals attending; probably just cadets, family and military supporters. These are not people who would boo Dump publicly. If there were locals there is no doubt he would have been booed. Hillary carried Philly and suburbs by a lot, and the stadium is in South Philly not NE Philly. Geez this is the town that booed Sarah Palin with her kid by her side.

I think some people still hold on to that "you can't disrespect the POTUS!" etiquette. Or hide behind that premise because they support Trump and the bigotry he represents.

Is the Senate also getting that extension to Dec. 21? I'm guessing the main event for this week will be dealing with the Farm Bill, and the week of Dec. 17-21 will be budget stuff. Still, let's pay attention to any last minute surprises.

What do Matthew McConaughey and Nicole Kidman say now? They were the biggest "He's The President! We HAVE to support him!" shills after the election.

"I didn't vote for him, but..."

Fucking traitors.

R251 Yeah, if the big money sticks with Trump, the GOP will too, even if means jumping off a cliff come 2020. These are not real politicians, just mindless lemmings masquerading as ones.

They need a budget deal and Trump wants to shut down the government to show how powerful he is. He will insist on $$$ for his Wall and then say whatever they propose is not enough.

BTW: Just to let you know the Times of London and several other reputable news sites have confirmed that Russian accounts and bots have been spreading fake news phony photos and agitating and shit stirring to generate the rioting in France. The riots in Amsterdam and a couple other places as well. This is what cyber warfare looks like. Now ask yourself if Trump, who insists the rioters in France were shouting his name, (they weren't) is hoping for similar here. Putin usually test runs his ops before launching them here.

Of course people are upset about a tax hike and rising fuel costs, and Macron has his political detractors, but this rioting and spreading of false information is state sponsored by Russia. THe news media ought to be shining a spotlight on it. The only way to fight them is to expose them and take cyber security measures to insure they fail.

If Trump is guilty, it would follow that Pence is equally guilty. Mueller is arguing that the CAMPAIGN Itself was tainted. They either both won or they both lost the election.. Besides, Pence led the transition team. There's no way he'll escape unscathed.

Another thought regarding the highly compromised republican congress: if Dump miraculously delays impeachment, he could win over the democratic House and stiff the Repug Senate. If I recall, Trump has never been a dyed in the wool Repug. He could swing left.

[quote] THe news media ought to be shining a spotlight on it. The only way to fight them is to expose them and take cyber security measures to insure they fail.

The media can't allow that to happen, because they don't want to be perceived as what they are: A mass manipulation tool.

The media will try to control the narrative by insisting that they report the news and are here to inform people of what's going on in the world. They can't admit that someone is using them for what they've been created in the first place.

Same goes for social media like facebook (being a mass manipulation tool).

R259, you’re ccertainly parroting the fake news narrative.

I have a feeling Pence was a "go along to get along" type guy and he was brow beaten by Kushner to accept Flynn as the NSA. I recall when Flynn finally go fired, or at least when the media started focusing attention on him, it was Jared who pushed for him (at Trump's behest.) Tell you what. When the Jared Kushner indictment comes out it is going to be scathing. If you read the sort of comments the SDNY and the Mueller team attach to their indictment filings, Jared's is going to be explosive.

Read up thread that Bannon is still around and that is something I've been saying for months. Steve Miller is a Bannon protege and he advises Trump. The great thing about pardons is that you have to admit guilt to get a pardon. (Please don't point out Nixon. That was a "special circumstance." It was as much about PR as anything else. ) They can also strip you of your assets.

According to many expert lawyers, the "you can't indict a sitting POTUS" thing is a Legal memorandum from the Justice department designed to protect who ever was President. It would not withstand a challenge.

This is one of the best concise, truthful takedown of the Orange One:

“So we know this, Russian government representatives reached out to the Trump campaign in 2015 and undertook multiple initiatives and had multiple points and series of contacts with Team Trump for the next couple years.

It's not just the Trump Tower meeting. It's not just the interactions with Wikileaks. It's not just the Russian ties to Cambridge Analytica. It's not just Konstantin Kiliminik, a Russian agent working hand in hand with campaign chair Paul Manafort.

It's not just the ties between Flynn and the Russians. it's not just the links between the Russians and Eric Prince through the meeting in the Seychelles and beyond that. It's not just the ties of Wilbur Ross. It's not just the Trump Organization dealings with Russia.

It's not just Jared Kushner's dealings with Russia. It's not just Kushner and Flynn's dealing with Kislyak during the campaign. It's not just the candidate Trump asking for Russian help. It's not just the GRU hacking for which indictments have already taken place....” (continued at link)

Twenty-five days until the Democrats take control of the House.

Rand Paul on MTP just spinning, spinning and saying essentially that there is nothing here, nothing illegal, and casting doubts on the concept of a special prosecutor.

He sounds dirty, blackmailed, or desperate to keep power in his claws.

And as usual, Chuck Toad just lets him get away with the nonsense.

R259 sounds like a QAnon-er worried about "the Deep State!" nonsense.

R259 ALSO posted this:

[Quote] I don't think Fox News is directly linked to Russian money.

[quote]They unleashed the hardest core racism/misogyny and vulture capitalism on us and won anyway. Fuck your feelings, anything that brings on liberal tears goes. Their base will not accept any retreat from any of it now. And neither will the leadership.

I agree R131. I don't understand why some people still expect the GOP to behave rationally as more and more evidence of the crimes everyone already knew were committed leaks out. They are true believers. They have complete faith in the power of white supremacy and they are unwilling to face their future in a global community that no longer supports that belief.

The Republican party has become Hitler in the bunker. They will never give up, but they will let the country burn until they finally destroy themselves. They are mentally deranged fanatics as are their supporters at Fox News, and followers, billionaires and Deplorables alike. They will never turn on their Fuhrer.

Can't wait to see Jared nd Donnie, Jr. busted. Can you imagine the leverage? Jared AND Ivanka are in this up to their eyeballs.

Jared has to be locked up. Remember how he kept lying on forms and papers? Kept changing the details.

[quote]I just don't get how the GOP doesn't understand how much they are damaging their brand by shrugging their shoulders about Trump.

because republicans do not see past themselves. they only worry about whether they can win the next election.

Senator Angus King (I, ME - who caucuses with the D's) is on "Meet the Press" saying thus far, the evidence presented thus far does not rise to the "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" standard. Color me surprised.

Rand Paul is bloviating under his awful hairpiece in Trump's defense at the moment.

[quote]Idiot at [R215], I never said Nixon was impeached. I referenced the Articles of Impeachment against him that came out of the Judiciary Committee.

It’s actually kind of poignant. I feel sorry for you, low-info troll. Ok time to quote low info:

[quote]Nixon was impeached for abuse of power. Stop embarrassing yourself.

“I never said Nixon was impeached.” Lol!

R273, you’re quoting 2 different people, stupid.

Girls... no one under 50 gives a fuck about Nixon.

Can we ignore the dissension-motivated impeachment troll at R273?

Let's stay on tangible topics!

[quote]This thread is on and popin’

Definitely moving faster now.

Well, duh. Mueller provides more than enough material for discussion these days.

Between the talking heads and the pundits lamenting Fox news and how their viewers are ill informed by the network, NOT A ONE has mentioned re-instating the Fairness Doctorine. Yes, it wouldnt solve the problem, but it would definitely take some of the wind from their sails in order to allow their viewers some semblance of facts and reality.

Here’s a laugh. The text is from a new WaPo article.

[quote] Senator Angus King (I, ME - who caucuses with the D's) is on "Meet the Press" saying thus far, the evidence presented thus far does not rise to the "High Crimes and Misdemeanors" standard.

In one respect, he's right. We don't really have enough information -- at this point -- to know the extent of tRump's criminality. The filings from the Special Counsel and the SDNY hint at much more to come, but until we get that it would be premature for a member of the Senate to be making pronouncements about impeaching the Dotard. I suspect that in the next few months the breadth of Cheatolini's criminal transgressions will become apparent to everyone. At that point it would be incumbent on the House Judiciary Committee to begin the process of drafting articles of impeachment.

In the meantime, Chuck Todd is still a piss-poor interviewer and and all-around useless idiot. He either doesn't do his homework -- and is thus unprepared to conduct a thorough, hard-hitting interview -- or he doesn't understand that he isn't simply there to provide a platform for Repukes to spread their nonsense unchallenged.

[quote]Any thoughts on exactly what evil they have planned that they needed the extra time to accomplish (or, going by their previous record, fuck up bigly)?

[quote]What could they do that the Dems can't reverse when they take control?

One set of things worrying me a little is around the specific Constitutional dictates and Congressional arcana around the mechanics of Congress adjourning and convening. The Republicans' obviously coordinated attempts to pull shit after losing control in North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Michigan just makes me nervous about their willingness to accept defeat in the U.S. House.

+The date/time of the next Congress' convening can be set by the current Congress; it doesn't have to happen on January 3. Amendment 20, Section 2: “The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and such meeting shall begin at noon on the 3d day of January, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.”

What if they make it February 1 so that they have more time to pull more shit?

+The president can make Congress adjourn or convene regardless of what Congress has decided to do. Article 2, Section 3, Clause 3: "he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper"

What if he does this, say, over Christmas and Russia turns up the kompromat from the recently revealed Republican campaign HQ computer break-in, and makes them pass some shit?

+Pro forma sessions, when Congress is in session technically for a minute at a time every three days (though almost all of them leave town) have been used for a while to keep presidents from making recess appointments or because the houses couldn't agree with one another on the terms of a recess.

I'm not devious enough to think of how Ryan and McConnell could use this, but it could be part of some fuckery they have planned. I suppose while one of the chambers is in "session" a particular committee is free to meet, conduct hearings, have press conferences to spread propaganda.

We’re going to need the jaws of life to pry that fat fuck out of the White House:

I found this old photo of a GOP rally at Madison Square Garden.

So, you can break the law to win office, but once you're in office, you're above the law.

That make sense.

r286, the Founding Fathers NEVER envisioned a person as corrupt and craven as a Donald Trump EVER getting close to the President's House.

They never foresaw the snowballing energy of white racism.

R225, I read your comment in Baby Jane Hudson's voice, when she sees herself in the mirror

"Because I'm MUCH too YOUNG to KNOW..." (clip eluded me)

Fux noise people are going to live in their alternate reality until Fux is FORCED by the FCC to stop calling themselves "news".

I knew as soon as I heard about the violence in Paris that Putin was behind it. He has hired goons everywhere. I have to wonder how he can afford to pay them unless he is getting money from - who?

Rethugs figure they can keep winning elections because the cock brothers and the mercers will still give them millions and use social media to reach the dim witted and gullible.

They are willing to hang onto fat Donnie for dear life in the hopes of keeping their seats. But if you dance with the devil, you cannot hide when the bill comes due.

R289 There is diminishing return from going after "the dim witted and gullible" though. Sure they can still make their stand in those gerrymandered red counties and the racist red states, but those are not growing in number and the margins of victory are also shrinking. The trend is not their friend.

The GOP is going to go down with the Trump ship. They are inexorably tied to him now. For that reason, they will never vote to impeach, so why bother wasting our political capital on it? We just proved that we can massively outvote them. Focus on 2020.

Hosts like Tappper and O'Donnell are insistently hectoring Dems like Nadler to impeach on Day One. It's getting annoying.

R286/R287 impeachment was the mechanism designed to protect us from this level of corruption. What the Founders didn't envision was an entire political party so devoted to their narrow interests they'd sacrifice everything else.

Washington warned about warring factions, but even he didn't think it would be this bad. This should have been corrected after the Civil War, but the interests of white supremacy won over in the end.

this is the last gasp of the south and white supremacy. At least I hope it is.

I want those vile fuckers to die off in misery clutching their guns, confederate flags and bibles as their hateful world goes down in flames. Again. Once and for all.

How in the Fuck can 20% of the population hold the other 80% hostage?

Maybe this will wake some people the Fuck up and they will stop yapping and start voting.

r294....that is a fantasy...its inbred into them from birth. Their numbers may decline, but they are never leaving completely.

R284

Because the (increasingly liberal) kids don't vote.

Rudy Gulliani ....never a good prosecutor even though the narrative makes him out to be some sort of savior....works for Trump for free, like Manafort....spouts complete and utter bullshit without challenge. Will anyone be surprised when the shit hits the fan and Gulliani says publicly that he was never formally retained and that he knew Trump was guilty and intentionally fed Trump a buch of legal mumbo jumbo to protect Mueller ? Thats of course if his ass doesnt go down first for his games with the NYFBI. He IS that kind of snake.

R292, I agree. O'Donnell is someone who thinks he's going to single-handedly save the world. He and Tapper need to keep the focus on what the investigation tells us and otherwise get over themselves.

[quote]Because the (increasingly liberal) kids don't vote.

I made sure they wouldn't and I will again in 2020.

- Bernie

I agree, it's unlikely that the repubs in the Senate would ever vote to impeach, but I think it's REALLY important to have the beltway media say the world impeachment as often as possible. This eventually changes the national conversation. It makes everyone start to think in turns of impeachment and that impeachment is a natural response to the orange shitgibbon's actions.

And it will make the Senate look guilty as hell for not impeaching an obvious criminal POTUS and it should influence voters' decision in the 2020 election.

R299

Seriously, people, why is there no maximum age for President? The Constitution requires the person elected to the job be 40 years old. So there's a floor.

Why no ceiling when everyone's physical strength and mental acuity declines over time? Hell, we physically shrink. Airline pilots must retire at 65 (it used to be 60) and they're only responsible for the people sitting behind them on the plane. I'm all for wisdom that comes from age and experience and "Yes," age limits are arbitrary, but wtf: can we not find a couple of qualified individuals with D's after their name who aren't yet on Medicare in a country of more than 300 million people to run for President?

Mueller needs to start indicting Republican Senators in order to get to the 68 needed to remove this human tumor.

I think it's a much worse outcome to have him impeached by the House and then found not guilty by the Senate than to wait and keep the investigations coming until he has to resign or the evidence is so overwhelming, like audio tapes of Trump himself and his number being revealed as the blocked number called during the Russia meeting at Trump Tower, that the Repugs in the Senate have no choice but to convict and remove him. The first scenario will just create an entire victim narrative that the Repugs can use in 2020 to energize their base.

LOL, R277.

And the Twitter thread at r263 is absolutely brilliant.

If a Republican decided to run against Trump, how early would he have to announce his or her plans?

I'd say Flake and Kasich have already announced, just not officially. I actually wonder if one or the other of them will form an entire ticket by attaching Nikki Haley in the VP spot right out of the gate.

I said it earlier. If in 2020, Trump runs and wins re-election, the numbers are also in our favor to regain the Senate and hold the House. If the Impeachment hearings and the news coverage present a banquet of evidence to show the unprecedented level of corruption in graphic detail, then you will be able to "convert" enough GOP senators to convict him, assuming you have a Democratic majority in the Senate of maybe 53.

Now. IMO, (along with a lot of Legal Experts) the Constitution does not prohibit a sitting President from being charged with a statutory criminal offense. If Trump were indicted, charged with a crime, and those charges were as specific and public as Mueller has done with others, then the burden (and the rationale) would be on Congress to decide to either allow an indicted President to continue to serve, or to impeach him, try him in the Senate and throw his ass in Prison. Public Opinion and media attention would force Congress to act .

Trump is crazy but he isn't crazy. If he were told there was no way in the world he could win, that the votes weren't there, he would make a deal and resign. His lawlessness is a real challenge for prosecutors, though, and I'm sure many of them would like to see him in jail. He does not generate a lot of sympathy from the law enforcement community.

r307 Kasich nor Flake will get far. They won't go for the jugular. If Pres Bone Spurs lasts that long.

Underestimate Kasich at your peril.

Why would Kasich get any farther in 2020 than he did as a sitting governor in 2016?

DILF/Inveterbrate Jeff Flake wont go too far: Deplorables hate him even more than Libs.

R300, the problem is the Beltway media is always primed to push the Democrats in Disarray! narrative, facts be damned. Pay careful attention to how impeachment will be talked about as the new Congress comes in--Dems will be both weak for not making it happen yesterday and overreaching by even mentioning it.

Kasich is an idiot because he is no brighter when it comes to women's rights than Trump or Pence. He thinks being better than Trump is key, but he is simply not reading the room at all. Women and minorities will drive the 2020 election.

There seems to be a lot of odd rumors floating around this weekend. Republican Senators are meeting privately in DC to decide what to do about the Trump problem, Pence and his lawyer are holed up in Indiana, Jr. is hiding in Canada.

Nick Ayers doesn't seem to want the COS job on more than a temp. basis past this spring, much to Trump's chagrin.

Mueller's self discipline is really amazing. Ken Starr and everyone around him was a babbling, blathering doofus. though in fairness, he was not actually hired to discover the truth, but to find anything that would get rid of Clinton, even if he had to invent a crime or turn a totally voluntary adult relationship into a crime. Mueller really is the ideal prosecutor. And we are very lucky to have him.

Maggie Haberman ‏

@maggieNYT 20m20 minutes ago More Confirmed, Ayers told Trump he won’t take the chief of staff role. He’s still leaving the administration and is likely to have a role with the super PAC backing Trump.

^ Forgot to add, and watch what the pundits do to Dems who try to talk policy--they'll be talked over and you'll hear a barrage of "but what about impeachment?" questions. And then they'll be endless chatter about how Dems are making a HUGE mistake by focusing on Trump/impeachment instead of talking about real issues.

See e.g. 2016 and 2018 election coverage.

Agree that they should be totally tied to him, r291, but they won't. They will simply lie and pretend in a few years that Trump, like George W Bush before him, simply has nothing to do with them. That they were always the pure Platonic ideal of Republican, never the dirty, nasty, stupid, racist reality. It's an old game, and the media sadly almost always goes along with it.

Flake and/or Kasich running in the primaries won't win. The Republican Party leadership is too heavily invested in Trump to dump him now, barring some major turn of events. But they would serve to deepen and widen the existing schism among the conservative movement. Let them peel more conservatives away from Trump, let the deplorables waste more of their time and resources fighting them off.

Pence is holed up with his lawyers? I wonder if he's looking to cut a deal. Back in the day, there was a Daily Beast article that claimed Manafort was in touch with Pence every day during the transition, or something like that. If Manafort was under observation by the FBI, who knows what they have on tape.

For an example of the media's willingness to sell bullshit, see the molasses poured over the career of one George H.W. Bush this week. You can never nail these whores down. They suck at every part of governing except the PR side.

Speaking of the recently dead ex-president, did they plant him yet?

And I know exactly what will happen if Trump is actually impeached and removed for treason. We will be told "the country is prepared for a president to go to jail." The country is entirely prepared for it. The whores and jackasses in the Republican Party and the U.S. Media are not prepared for it, but everyone else is.

shit, "is not prepared for" not "is prepared"

Or this R21. They're already starting with the "This is good news for John McCa... err, Trump" narrative.

One day old and this story is a dud, because supposedly Ayers said no. But this is how eager they are to go to bat for him.

^ I meant R321.

If the re-election campaign and the RNC are one entity as that article describes - isn't that going to be prejudicial against any alternate Republican candidates? Are they just assuming that there won't be any challengers?

That's going to be a huge tell in the coming months. Usually same side/party challengers to a reelection campaign are 3rd party caucasing types or fringe elements within the party who get no real support. But the GOP throwing weight behind a serious contender for the primary would be a shocking rebuke to Trump--that would be real money where your mouth is action.

I'm guessing no, though. The last time we saw anything like it was Kennedy in 1980 challenging Carter, and even then I think Kennedy was only able to get the party support he did because he was Kennedy. And it was ultimately a disaster.

Ayers tweeted his goodbye. He's running home to Georgia.

The fact that Ayers just turned down Trump and is leaving Pence in two weeks is very telling. There is obvious chaos with Trump and there must be dirt on Pence. He's grabbing his wife and kids and scampering off to Georgia. He is out of there!

Much of the Mueller report is already public. What does it say?

The hundreds of published pages from the Special Counsel’s office and the House intelligence committee read like a Le Carré novel

Dec 8th 2018

The Mueller investigation has been running for 81 weeks and counting. For much of that time it has offered those yet to get over the 2016 election a chance to fantasise about an alternative ending to the Trump presidency, one in which the good guys get the bad guys and justice is served. The market for this is so strong that there is even a podcast dedicated to investigation speculation, called “Mueller, she wrote”. Lawfare, a wonky legal blog, has become so popular that it has a merchandise section selling Lawfare-branded babygrows.

Yet the investigation is widely misunderstood. Many Americans seem to be waiting for a final report from Robert Mueller’s team, at which point something will happen. Both those assumptions are wrong. The report, when it eventually comes, will probably not be made public. And the judgment on what that report means for the president will be political, rather than legal. It will rest on the views of Republicans in Congress. And many of them would rather not think about it.

nterviews with Republican congressmen, staffers and strategists in the wake of the most recent guilty plea from Michael Cohen, the president’s former lawyer and fixer, suggest few have paid it much attention. “I don’t think our members of Congress give a shit about Don Junior, the president’s family, people around the president,” says one. Another likens the party’s situation to the fable of the frog: the water is hotter, but colleagues have adjusted to it. Some quietly calculate that their political futures depend on publicly supporting a president whom they deplore.

Yet the widespread indifference in one party does not mean the special counsel’s investigation is inconsequential. Its seven guilty pleas or convictions are real enough. What has already been revealed, in the hundreds of pages of documents published by the special counsel’s office and the report by the House intelligence committee, is startling. These documents contain a cast of characters that seem drawn from a novel by Eric Ambler or John le Carré: the Maltese professor who vanished, the Azerbaijani would-be pop star and his billionaire father, the financier who smashed a glass in another man’s face in a bar fight, the shady Brits. Though parts are redacted, it is usually possible to infer who is who. ******** “has a unique and colourful background, and described for the committee his path from Wall Street banker to white-collar criminal to government informant.” Hello, Felix Sater.

In other words, much, perhaps even most, of the Mueller report has already been published. What does it say?

The Department of Justice asked Mr Mueller to investigate “any links and/or co-ordination” between the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump campaign. Start with the links.

One set ran through the Trump Organisation, which was attempting to build a tower in Moscow, a project that continued throughout the Republican primaries of 2016. A second set ran through Michael Flynn, a former national security adviser, who took it upon himself to establish a private line of communication with the Russian ambassador in Washington, after Mr Trump won the election.

There are three more links, which look more like Russian intelligence operations. One went via an enthusiastic Russian member of the National Rifle Association (NRA), Maria Butina, and her sponsor, Alexandr Torshin, then the deputy governor of Russia’s central bank. Emails from May 2016 provided to the House Intelligence Committee show that Mr Torshin contacted the campaign, offering an “overture from President Putin.” Both Russians exchanged emails with the president’s eldest son. But the hoped-for meeting, at an NRA gathering in Kentucky, never happened, partly because Jared Kushner counselled against it. Ms Butina has since been indicted as a spy.

...

...

Then there is the link that ran through New York, where Donald Trump junior, Mr Kushner and Paul Manafort, then Mr Trump’s campaign chairman, met a Russian lawyer claiming to have embarrassing information about Hillary Clinton. That meeting apparently proved disappointing. Still, Don junior made misleading statements about it and his father dictated a statement about what had been discussed, which was issued in the son’s name and was later found to be false, too.

The final known set of links runs through London, and involves a fifth-rate foreign-policy adviser to Mr Trump, George Papadopoulos, and an equally distinguished Maltese academic and grifter, Joseph Mifsud. Mr Mifsud ran an institute called the London Academy of Diplomacy, which did not exist, and boasted of his links to the Russian government. The pair met in Rome in March 2016 and then twice in London. In April Mr Mifsud told Mr Papadopoulos that the Russian government had “dirt” on Mrs Clinton.

That leaves one last channel, about which there has been much speculation but little proof. Russia’s military intelligence arm, the gru, which was responsible for hacking into the Democratic National Committee’s email server, used WikiLeaks to publish its material. For the past two years investigative journalists have been trying to find out whether anyone from the Trump campaign co-ordinated with WikiLeaks over the release of the stolen material. Don junior did send a message to WikiLeaks on Twitter, asking for advance notice of a future release of material, but apparently received no reply. The special counsel’s indictments have not yet shed any light on this last channel, either.

Grifters and fixers

So much for the links. How about the co-ordination? As so often, Mr Trump said the thing out loud that others would only whisper: “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you are able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” he told a rally in July 2016. Other expressions of a desire to work together were more private. Offered dope on Mrs Clinton from the Russian government before the New York meeting, Don junior wrote, “If it’s what you say I love it.”

What the special counsel has not yet found is a clear example of successful co-ordination. At times the published documents read less like a spy thriller and more like a Coen Brothers screenplay, in which a cast of confidence men attempt to use a presidential campaign to make themselves money and become the sort of people who get invited to speak at Davos. “”Buddy,” writes Mr Sater to Michael Cohen, the president’s lawyer and fixer, in November 2015, “our boy can become President of the usa and we can engineer it.” If “Putin gets on a stage with Donald for a ribbon cutting for Trump Moscow...Donald owns the Republican nomination.”

This exchange, though laughable, relates to a long-standing allegation, namely that the candidate’s policy towards Russia, which on the campaign trail involved praising Vladimir Putin and opposing further sanctions, was influenced by his business interests. In the absence of documentary evidence, this is, in an epistemological sense, unknowable. If somebody acts in a way that is consistent with their financial interest, did they act because it was in their interest to do so, or because they wanted to do so anyway?

In a political sense, though, the answer is already in. The candidate repeatedly said that he had no dealings in Russia. Donald Junior testified to Congress that the Trump Tower Moscow project was on hold by early June 2016. Mr Cohen gave testimony to the same effect. The House intelligence committee concluded that the project was dormant in January 2016. The special counsel obtained Mr Cohen’s emails and proved that the Trump Organisation was in fact still working on the Trump Moscow project throughout the Republican primaries.

...

Ayers offered to stay until Trump found someone but Trump said no he had wanted Ayers to be permanent

...

The timing matters. In the weeks after Mr Trump sewed up the Republican presidential nomination in Indiana, in May 2016, conservative media outlets were buzzing with rumours of an intra-party coup to deny him the crown. One of Mr Trump’s vanquished opponents, Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, said he could not “in good conscience” support Mr Trump or attend the Republican convention in Cleveland at which he was due to accept the Republican ticket. There was speculation over whether nominees to the convention might award it to someone else. Had the party’s most recent presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, who had criticised Mr Trump as a “a phoney, a fraud”, stepped forward at that point, perhaps they might have done. Imagine how much shakier Mr Trump’s prospects would have seemed if it had been known that his advisers were simultaneously negotiating with the Kremlin to obtain land and finance for a Trump Tower in Moscow.

Yet behaviour that would have seemed unconscionable two years ago does not now seem to trouble Mr Trump’s party colleagues too much. Given that the president could not be removed by articles of impeachment unless around 20 Republican senators broke with him, almost no matter what Mr Mueller may find, this is great news for Mr Trump.

From the top down

A few remaining chapters in the report have yet to be written. The most important ones relate to the nature of the link between the GRU, WikiLeaks and the campaign. Roger Stone, a longtime adviser to Mr Trump, has been subpoenaed by Democrats in the Senate, and has invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. The special counsel will not be brushed off so easily.

Finally, the president himself has already answered written questions from Mr Mueller’s office. There is a real possibility that some of the president’s answers contradict what Mr Mueller now knows. One theme from the hundreds of pages of indictments is that the people around the president lied frequently and easily, even under oath. It is a management cliché that culture is set at the top. That was true of the Trump campaign, too.

Yet even if the president has lied under oath, the Department of Justice’s guidelines caution against indicting a sitting president. Such an offence might not be deemed grave enough to overrule that. There will be no final scene where the detective explains how all the loose ends fit together. The only denouement available is political, and therefore contested.

Nick knows, as does Sarah Sanders, that in January the Democrats will be able to subpoena all communications.

Best to be far away from DC when that happens. The fall out will be great.

sometimes I can't see some of the posts. Is that because they have blocked me?

anyone with the slightest intelligence is jumping off this sinking ship.

If Ayers was Plan A, was there ever a Plan B?

Ayers running for the hills should give the Republican Senators something to talk about.

You know you're fucked when even the VIP's fucktoy doesn't want to rise in the ranks of this criminal enterprise that's the US administration.

LOL. Sorry VP's fucktoy

Manafort's afraid of becoming "Paulie".

Washington Post comments on Ayers:

LOL - Another rat fleeing the dumpster fire on the SS Trump. No one in their right mind wants their resume tainted by having worked for Donnie's administration - the only post-administration job open to you would be Fox News talking head.

He didn't even make it to the rowboat to ferry him over to the Trumptanic!

Ayers has an eye to his future and knows this job is nothing but pain, misery, ineffectiveness, lying. and sucking up to a vulgar toady.

Get ready for Chief Of Staff Tiffany!

Isn't Ayers going to miss Pence's sloppy hole?

The republicans like Trump were not elected by the people.

Trump was placed in the oval office by Putin and his money with help from the republican by way of gerrymandering and voter suppression.

With the gerrymandering and voter suppression the republicans in the house and senate selected their voters that put them in office.

McConnell and Trump are now busy placing illegitimate and unqualified far right wing judges on the courts.

In addition to the fact that we have republicans on the supreme court that are filling "stolen seats" to include Roberts who was placed in the court by Bush2 who was himself an illegitimate president.

This whole republican control of our government is illegitimate.

That means the the only real elected representatives we have in this Country are the Democrats.

FYI, the Democrats get their "courage" for the voters that get off their sofas and vote for them.

Maybe Trump will promote Sarah Huckabee Sanders to WH Chief of Staff?

Romney could challenge Trump in 2020 and garner much support. He doesn't owe Trump anything. Romney would attract the GOP big donors.

What’s the deal with Don Jr? Is he planning to stay in Canada forever? Can they kick him out? Does he have some sort of tourist visa?

What I really want to know is why even a delusional idiot like Don Jr thinks the jig is up. What do they have on him that’s so bad, even he thinks it’s curtains? And what does Trump think of this lack of nerve? Isn’t it a show of lack of faith in Daddy Dearest?

And is La Guillfoyle sewing jewels in her skirt hems and buying a ticket to China? Or is their “twue wuv” suddenly over?

Anybody that would challenge Trump is not a Deplorable and doesn’t agree with their point of view. It would split the vote right down the middle.

Even if Trump doesn’t run, some radical but more well spoken Trumpist (low bar) would probably appear to challenge a Romney type. And I think there’s going to be a lot of anger and resentment in the Deplorable wing party for years to come towards moderate Republicans that challenge Trump or his ideas.

The reason Kasich lost is that he was too moderate. The Republican Party didn’t want that. A person that seems “moderate” to Democrats is unelectable to Republicans for that very reason. And they aren’t going to get Democratic crossover votes right now because Democrats are taking care of their own.

Remember, Trump got some crossover votes. Hillary lost some Obama voters. They were easily duped people who thought Trump was “for the working man.” Most of those people will probably go back to the Democrats before this is over.

R349 do we have an extradition agreement with Canada? Dump Jr. can run but he can’t hide.

Does anyone think Trudeau - after the way Trump Sr. has treated him - is going to offer Diaper Donny asylum?

The president is directly implicated in the SDNY and Special Counsel’s public findings, as is mentioned in the Economist piece above.

Simply put, there are now two tracks of reality for sale on TV—the one where the president directed felonious behavior to defraud the American voter and the one where such findings are ignored.

The second track is running out of railroad.

The SDNY people are getting closer and closer...

"What the prosecutors did not say in Mr. Cohen’s sentencing memorandum filed on Friday, however, is that they have continued to scrutinize what other executives in the president’s family business may have known about those crimes, which involved hush-money payments to two women who had said they had affairs with Mr. Trump.

In addition to implicating Mr. Trump in the payments to the two women, Mr. Cohen has told prosecutors that the company’s chief financial officer was involved in discussions about them, a claim that is now a focus of the inquiry, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.

Mr. Cohen has told prosecutors that he believes Mr. Trump personally approved the company’s decision to reimburse him for one of the payments, one of the people said."

Sorry for reposting. I asked this over in the Nick Ayers thread. I’m seriously interested in you all’s thoughts.

The rats are abandoning ship.

Nick Ayers, like Paul Ryan, Chaffetz and others, has suddenly discovered he’s got a wife and kids who need attending to.

So here’s my question.

The possible new Attorney General, William Barr, is respected (among conservatives and many moderates). He’s 68. He’s already punched his ticket by being H.W.Bush’s Attorney General. He makes millions on boards and as Verizon’s top lawyer. He can call his own shots.

So why, really, is he joining this shitshow?

Mueller has Trump 'cornered,' Carl Bernstein says.

At some point the evidence of his wrongdoing will be so overwhelming that the Congress is going to have to act. I understand and appreciate the value of ousting him via the 2020 election. But, we can't leave a mentally unstable, deranged and traitorous felon in office for two more years. Especially one who has shown a proclivity towards dictatorial tendencies. That's like leaving a rabid animal in the house and just hoping everything will be OK.

R355: Barr may just be a crazy right-winger, as he already was under GHWB; and since he's already been Atty. Gen. once before and is towards the end of his career he doesn't have the future career to be guard against ruining that Ayers and others do.

R355 Some people think they can save the country from a dumpster fire (or is it the other way around in this case), so they run towards it. The same reason Kelly stayed this long.

Russian fingers in every Republican pie, including—no big surprise—the push to destroy Net Neutrality. Among the outrages is an insult to a DL fave: "Reviews of the public record found that 2 million of the 22 million comments submitted to the FCC used stolen identities, some for people who were dead, including actress Patty Duke, who died in 2016."

So how does this involve Verizon et al.?

Neely O'Hara!!!!!

[quote] So why, really, is he joining this shitshow?

I think that Bill Barr is doing this purely out of a sense of obligation to the Justice Department and the country.

I met him once or twice at DOJ when he had come back for various events. He certainly seemed nice enough. I realize he's horrid on LGBT rights and a number of other issues, but he's probably the best we can get. He's competent at least.

He doesn't actually want the job -- and he certainly doesn't need it. He's done it already and is worth a fortune. And, he certainly doesn't need the headache that is coming down the road. But, I expect that others have talked to him and told him he had to take it because Whitaker can't stay much longer and someone needs to steer the ship. I doubt there is anyone else. McConnell told tRump you may not pick from among the sitting Rethuglican Senators. That leaves a very small number of people to pick from.

Barr will protect Mueller

Thank you R357, R358, R361 & 362.

I suppose even vehement right wingers can have the country’s best interest at heart.

(Heck, I suspect even Justice Alito - right wing, but a former prosecutor- will still do the right thing on “double jeopardy” case.)

The bigger question, and I do mean bigger, is whether or not Roseanne Barr will protect Donny.

Guys like Roberts and Alito are ideologically very extremely Conservative, but Trump's vulgarity and his coarseness would disgust them. Thomas is an immoral piece of shit and Gorsuch and Kavanaugh are too.

Good Trumpcast this week.

Pence's guy, Ayers is bad news. He is an Extremist and he will be working for one of the Superpacs for the Trump Re Election effort. He even signed his twitter #MAGA. So while he is definitely doing the smart thing career wise, he is definitely not someone any decent person wants anything to do with. He will probably resurface in Georgia State Republican politics. He's a piece of shit.

R362 I wouldn't trust Barr one bit. He is a political operator and a cleaner, so he will make it look like he's not interfering but he will still try to steer it away from the criminals in the WH. His one and only job will be to act as desperate Trump's last defense and save his presidency. Don't even imagine he's there for the good of the DOJ or to restore its integrity. For that, you'll need to get rid of the source of corruption in the WH first.

R367 - is there a Republican who ISN'T a piece of shit?

Ayers probably want to run for president one day. If so, he's making the right move.

R368 that's exactly what worries me. With Whitaker he is as dumb as a post and he is no match for Rosenstein and Mueller's team he can't even figure out his way to te men's room. I'd rather have an ass like Whitaker over there than Barr who knows his way around DoJ and will press Rosenstein and ask questions. Now, Mueller is probably a known entity to Barr. And I don't think Mueller is going to kiss his ass. I think the way it works is that if Barr is confirmed, Mueller will make his case, just as if he were in a court room, and he will show Barr just enough for Barr to know that if he tries to fuck with the investigation he will be stepping into shit. I think no matter what your ideology is, Trump has really pushed past the boundaries of excess. No real career Republican likes him. Forget it.

[quote]What’s the deal with Don Jr? Is he planning to stay in Canada forever? Can they kick him out? Does he have some sort of tourist visa?

Seems like America just dusted off whatever mechanisms are used to ask Canada to arrest people and deliver them to the U.S.

R372 Maybe Jr. can see Russia from Canada... and cry for help.

Corporate scum.

Tan Mom for Chief of Staff!

Charles Blow

[quote]There seems to be a lot of odd rumors floating around this weekend. Republican Senators are meeting privately in DC to decide what to do about the Trump problem, Pence and his lawyer are holed up in Indiana, Jr. is hiding in Canada.

How do we know about all this (with the exception of Trump Jr)?

Five-year statute of limitations on campaign finance violations. To stay out of prison, he must win reelection.

Campaign finance laws are the least of his crimes.

R379, but so far it's the one for which the public is aware there is the most evidence. More will come.

The stature of limitations begins from the time the crime was committed, so that sucks too.

But, I wonder if the statute of limitations is tolled while he is in office, thus holding the time in abeyance until he is out of office. Interesting question -- one that doesn't come up often because we generally don't have presidents committing felonies and treason.

R382, Nadler discussed this on Rachel the other day. It's not tolled, and Nadler is considering introducing legislation to do that.

What does ‘tolled’ mean in this context?

Cockgobbler Schock's fuckbuddy defends Trump.

R384, put on hold. Pausing the clock in relation to the statue of limitations.

Can’t NY legislators pull a Republican move and change the law on how long the statute of limitations is?

Not on a federal law...

R384, "tolled" in this case means "suspended" -- a limitation period doesn't run while it is tolled.

The thing that bothers me is that the MSM still has plenty of guests on saying there don't think we're "quite there" yet. We were there in the campaign. We've been there since day one in office. We need to get on with it.

I could see Trump going with someone like Gingrich, who has been around forever. Nobody who would still like a career after this is going to take the job.

If Repugs were smart, they'd dump this entire shitfest and see what a Mitt Romney/Nikki Haley ticket could do for them. That might actually be hard to run against. But, they'll run Trump, if he's not rotting in prison.

Thank you R386 and r389.

No one likes Newt in Congress. He will be advised against putting Newt in the WH. He appointed Gingrich ambassador to the Vatican. I doubt he would bring him back and put him in the WH and I don't think Gingrich would do it. Everyone knows this is a sinking ship. Yes Newt defends him, but he wants to be able to turn on him when the time is right. They need an Alexander Haig type.

Forgot to say that the Chief of staff interacts with members of Congress and with Cabinet officials. It's a lot of power in the wrong hands. Newt is not trustworthy and everyone knows it.

Four connected to Russians.

r394 Callista Gingrich - AKA The Joker - is ambassador to the Vatican. Only two complete freaks like Newt and Callista would willingly marry each other.

Weisselberg now has immunity...and will drop nukes on Trump...it will NOT get better. It WILL get worse.

Repubs know this and their attempts at trying to shape the narrative will become increasingly ridiculous.

In the end they will look at self-preservation of the party and Trump will be sacrificed.

[quote] It is no longer journalistically sound to report on the Trump investigation as if it is a matter that may, or may not, yield damning information about the President. In a series of filings that came Friday night, the office of the special counsel, Robert Mueller, and a separate group of federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York, laid out evidence that, taken together, leaves little doubt that Donald Trump sought to use his candidacy to enrich himself by approving a plan to curry political favor from Vladimir Putin in exchange for a lucrative real-estate opportunity.

[quote] It may be only part of the full story, but what we now know is a powerful tale that combines elements that are familiar from other Trumpworld scandals. It is at once shockingly corrupt, blatantly unethical, probably illegal, and yet, at the same time, shabby, small, and ineptly executed.

I hope Corsi and Stone get indicted this week

I wonder if Hoe Hicks will get in trouble for lying to Congress and being part of crafting this lying letter on Air Force One...Mueller seems pretty lenient as he didn't indict KT McFarland so I'm guessing not but hoping yes

Trump was probably told to nominate Barr for AG by party leaders such as McConnell, Grassley, Graham, etc. Pence probably weghed-in as well. And the Koch Bros., Adelson, the Federalist Society, Heritage Foundation, etc. have their recommendations and pressures. Apparently Trump tried earlier to have Barr on his personal legal team, but got turned down. Christie, Giuliani, and so forth, all know Barr. Mueller has worked with Barr before, so they know how each other operates. Barr is very partisan and conservative. Yet, crime is crime, and it is doubtful he would want his legacy to be about suppressing a criminal investigation on the highest level. If he tampers with the investigation in a negative way, it will get quickly leaked.

Let’s just remember (I fucking know it’s been said before you cunts!!!) that *this* is the week the tide turned. We are officially at the end of the middle.....dare I say, the beginning of the end?

Well, sooner the GOP figure out this is the end of the road and there's no way to save this dumpster fire, the sooner they can move on to save their broken party. Of course they asked for this when they got in bed with Trump, so they got what they deserved.

Check this out: Conservative Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin predicted over the weekend that President Donald Trump will resign 10 minutes earlier than planned, giving Vice President Mike Pence the opportunity to pardon him.

On Sunday, political analyst and politicians suggested that the Department of Justice may be waiting until Trump leaves office before indicting him for campaign finance violations, obstruction of justice or other crimes... (link)

If he pulled that off, my head will explode.

BUT, not so fast. State charges state charges state charges.

So he can pull that shit, he canNOT fully escape all charges.

Canada is half-way to Russia, right?

Putin doesnt want Trump....he'll be more than toxic soon.

R406 And Russia is half-way to Hell! Run Jr. Run!

Deplorables on social media are doubling-down and now claim that Hillary and Obama will be carted off to jail by Spring 2019.

Rubin's prediction is one of several scenarios that people have speculated on over the last couple years: Trump/Pence are voted out (or 2nd term is about to end), before the next President and VP are sworn in, Trump pardons Pence, resigns, Pence is sworn in and Pence pardons Trump.

This possibility has already been taken into consideration, count on it.

R409, it's the new Friedman Unit.

[quote]Deplorables on social media are doubling-down and now claim that Hillary and Obama will be carted off to jail by Spring 2019.

Don't they tire of being constantly wrong?

The opinions, assessments, and predictions of anyone in the Trump cult are useless. None of them are based on facts, nor are they at all the product of critical thinking.

It's pointless to note what they're saying. It's like talking to a North Korean true believer. It's a cult and they don't see objective reality. They know Fox News and that's about it.

There is no pardon for tax evasion and money laundering.

Nope.

And New York state will come at the fucker once the IRS gets their pound of flesh. If there is anything left.

My wish/dream list for upcoming indictments: Pence, Stone, Corsi, Hannity, Assange (not officially announced yet), McFarland, Hicks, Ivanka, Jared,Don Jr, Eric, Kellyanne, Huckabee, and any other Trump admin members

WAPO's Jennifer Rubin: “I would predict here on MSNBC that when Trump leaves office he will resign the presidency 10 minutes before Mike Pence leaves office, allowing Pence to pardon him if there is not a Republican president to follow him,”

R416 My request to Jennifer Rubin, "PLEASE.... do not give him any ideas!!!"

Seriously, what if he sees that article?

Regarding the statute of limitations, if a sealed indictment is filed before the limitation is up, does that stop the statute of limitations clock? Then unseal when Trump is out of office.

There's the old saying, that "Justice delayed, is justice denied" . And I believe it's a tenet of the law. Once charges have been filed with the court, there has to be some kind of limit on how long those charges can just sit there, sealed, and not be unsealed and scheduled for a hearing. A lawyer would have to tell us that. But if Mueller indicts Trump, then it would be up to Cogress to act on those charges.

Trump has already committed impeachable offenses without any need for a Special Prosecutor. You look at the way he conducts his Presidency, and there have been several times when impeachment would have been a proper response. The debacle on the Mexican border is the most prominent that comes to mind. Putting children in cages? Failing to implement a court decision in a timely fashion to re unite kids with their families?

There are more than 12,000 kids currently living in tents in Texas. There are more than 170 who have still not been reunited with parents. We have had kids sexually assaulted by non-vetted personnel. We have had some kids die through neglect. We have had parents die. There have been suicides. This was all Trump's doing. Then there is Trump's failure to implement sanctions against Russia. That went on for months.

He has violated laws and ignored court rulings and undermined and sabotaged legal decisions from the start. As for his violation of the emoluments clause, it is serious, it is not vague or minor. If we had a Congress that did its job he wouldn't have lasted out these two years. Trump is an endless nightmare. Even his trade and tariff polices have acted against the interests of our country and in favor of Russia. He is very consistent. The unwillingness of the Senate and the House in particular to reign him in is a disgrace.

I think what a lot of people still don't get is the fact that Trump is the Circus Clown performing on center stage, but this is all part of a worlwide movement. The Extreme Right is asserting itself all over Europe. The riots promoted in France and in cities throughout Europe are not spontaneous, authentic expressions they a re the result of Extremists who are being exploited by Putin. He has not changed. The MO is to discover divisions, both political and social and then exploit them and agitate violence. This is not a theory or speculation it is established fact.

Several attempts to agitate violence here in the USA have failed. But they won't stop trying. They'd love to start a race war. That would be the most obvious. But there are other opportunities.All these marches we've been having, it's a miracle they haven't succeeded in infiltrating them and starting something. So yes, we need to get rid of Trump. Definitely. But we need some tougher laws and a serious investment in cyber security. We also need to educate and inform people. And the FCC needs to re instate some laws and regulations as tools to stop the false incendiary agitprop on social media and in our news gathering functions. It's time people realized we are definitely in a war.

What pisses me off is that the so called "popular wisdom" promoted by many in the media, and certainly by the Republicans is that this is all "political" and Impeachment is political. They say that to minimize the process. To make it sound like it;'s "just" a game. But Impeachment is also extremely serious and is a legal proceeding. It's the remedy and the prescribed way of dealing with "high cries and misdemeanors." Now if we are going to interpret this based on what the Founding Fathers meant, then we have to understand that statutory offenses, breaking the law according to the criminal code, is something that has due process attached to it and once that has been established Impeachment is the remedy. So the "president can't be indicted" is bullshit.

IMO there is a process for establishing a crime has been committed. There's an investigation, there is a Grand Jury that hears evidence, and then charges are bought and an indictment is brought before the court. That's how our justice system works. So once a person is charged with a crime, then they can be fired, or suspended or censured or impeached. To keep insisting that Impeachment comes first seems to be reversing the due process prescribed by our own justice system. But that's just me.

R415 must be Arya Stark.

Impeach is STILL off the table bitches!

What worries me is after Trump. We needed a Trump to be the reason to motivate people to get active. Then even with all the shit we have seen, all he tried to do to us these past two years, we had to beg and plead over and over again for people to show up to vote. Once he is gone, and maybe a Kasich or a Pence is President, they will be just as extreme, but with a different style. Or even a Romney type. People will be so relieved there will be a false sense of security and things will just keep getting worse. We'll all be like the proverbial frog in the pot of water. The one that gradually boils him to death.

Gee thanks for your input Susan Sarandon at r423, now kindly fuck off.

And why do you assume that only a Republican will be in office after Drumpf is thankfully gone?

The Dotard tweets there's no "Smocking Gun".

Moron.

[quote] Then even with all the shit we have seen, all he tried to do to us these past two years, we had to beg and plead over and over again for people to show up to vote.

First of all, they did show up. And, second, I don't know how much that was dependent on people "begging and pleading." Yes, there were pleas from everywhere and everyone dutifully told people to go out and vote. But, we have absolutely no way of knowing if that is what influenced people to vote, or they just realized -- on their own -- that they needed to participate in order to challenge tRump and boot out his enablers in Congress.

Oh,stop. I'm not Susan Sarandon. I loathe her . I'm not assuming that we will only have Republican Presidents. I am saying in a broader sense, that typically we let down our guard and are often sucked in by the style.I particularly worry about the Media. The media might give people like Kasich or Pence a free pass at first and not vet them enough. And we did have to beg and plead and insist people turn out to vote and I worry that people will be lulled into thinking it's not as urgent as it is. On the bright side, I can think of two issues that will get Dems to the polls:Climate Change, and Healthcare. Maybe the third one is gun safety. Our economy is heading towards the shitter too, so that might help.

R426, I live in Georgia. I was happy to see the House races flip seats here.Particularly Karen Handel who is a vile person and an outright homophobe and proud of it. We lost the governor's race , which I felt bad about, but we had a real shot at the Democrat taking the Secretary of states office. So we had a run off on December 4th. This was a chance for Georgia to clean up a lot of the voting "irregularities" and instead, the Republican won. Why? Because people didn't turn out to vote. There wasn't any urgency or push to turn out the vote. A good man lost.And were are stuck with the shit show everyone was complaining about a month ago. All the independents we needed didn't turn out.In fact a lot of them didn't realize Dec. 4th was election day.

I agree that the Georgia special election on December 4 was a missed opportunity to remedy the horrors that the Georgia SoS has been inflicting on voting rights for years. But, I'm not certain that we can read a pattern into that because it was a special election. People have become so conditioned to voting on the first Tuesday following the first Monday in November that they likely tune out everything after that. A problem? Yes, but I'm not sure that indicates people won't show up in two years or in four years for the next mid-term election.

Beyond pathetic Trump trying to look indignant while tweeting about a 'Smocking Gun.' He may as well do a 'press conference' with ketchup all over his stupid face. The cretin just sets himself up for weeks of more fully justified smockery.

[quote]giving Vice President Mike Pence the opportunity to pardon him.

That only works if there’s a Pence.

By then, there will be no Pence.

R429, they didn't publicize the election to remind people about the run off. Oh, they mentioned it but there was no "Remember, December 4th is election day" push. And because local media sort of backed off, we had to rely on paid ads on TV and local groups on facebook who were trying to get people inspired.But I think there was election fatigue among voters, and the media focus remained on the House races, and everyone sort of felt like, "Fine, we did it!" Without that sense of urgency, and the local media investing in the race, turn out was down. IMO, I think turn out in any election is based on how much urgency is conveyed and how well organized the effort is. We were getting a lot of reports during early voting that the suburban/rural white older adult demographic, which traditionally skews Republican, were really turning out. I live in the city of Atlanta, and we turned out too, but those Indie voters in the near suburbs, t he "some timey" voters didn't show up. It's frustrating.

The economy is starting to tank. That will do more damage than grabbing a thousand pussies or ripping babies from mothers arms.

R433 you’re correct. And a lot of it is due to those stupid tariffs.

Someone sounds worried.

As far as Pence goes, they're obviously squeezing from the bottom up, as they would. There's a reason he lawyered up so early on. Don't forget that.

IMO, Trump had an agenda. He was supposed to enact policies to help Russia and he has done that. Maybe he only planned on being POTUS for one term. But the way things are going with Mueller, he will want to cut a deal before he announces he's not running. OTOH, maybe now that he is aware that he will be tried for real crimes on both a state and federal level, maybe he figures running and "winning" again are his only protection from jail time.

Yes, Pence lawyered up when Flynn got busted.

[quote]As far as Pence goes, they're obviously squeezing from the bottom up

Pics please.

Whoa! MSNBC reporting that Red Sparrow Mariia Butina appears to be changing her plea to guilty. Hold on to your buckets of popcorn, folks--turbulence ahead.

That is juicy. They broke the red head huh? I wonder how I’d do in solitary. I feel like I’d love it.

"The sense of grandiose omnipotence that he displays seems especially appealing to his emotionally-needy followers. "

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I bet there has just been an increase in bowel and bladder incontinence in Washington, and among the people running the NRA. May ALL fucking traitors recieve justice and fucking die in prison (although I'd really prefer capital punishment, but unfortunately, that won't happen).

R441, my nephew is five years old and even he thinks Trump is ridiculous.

Many five year olds have some capability of articulating a full thought - tRump is nothing but repetitive sound-bites. He's more in the three-year old category.

All I can say r442 is that 46 is gonna have a lot of reupholstering to do!

The age is irrelevant. The idea that Trump and his supporters operate on the same "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! Keep! Keep! Keep!" mentality is the important part.

What happened to Red Sparrow’s live in bf?

[quote] What worries me is after Trump. We needed a Trump to be the reason to motivate people to get active. Then even with all the shit we have seen, all he tried to do to us these past two years, we had to beg and plead over and over again for people to show up to vote.

People will learn from Trump and remain suspicious of, say, the Republican Party. "We don't want another Trump, do we?" will keep a lot of people motivated for a very long time. Like "No More Bush!" did after GWB, jr. But, yes. that motivational fear will fade and people will drop their guard in, maybe, a decade.

r447 You mean this stupid, ugly clown?

R448, I wish people would remain suspicious. But what is unsettling to me is that in 2007, 2008-009 we had a major financial meltdown. People lost more than 40% of their retirement savings. People lost their jobs and their homes to foreclosure. Entire industries were on the brink of bankruptcy and we were literally staring into the abyss. We 'd already had a terrorist attack, we went to war...against the wrong country... and by 2008 people knew that, and we had Katrina. And yet, in 2010, we threw away our Democratic Majority in both houses of Congress because we were too busy congratulating ourselves about Obama getting elected, and we failed to show up. We did not turn out to vote and we gave it away.

Now if people weren't suspicious and turned off by Republicans after the shape our country was in by 2009 when Obama took office, then I can't imagine WTF people will be thinking. Because I was mystified after what we went through how anyone could ever vote for a Republican for anything ever again. I felt the same way in 2016. After the Congress's obstructionist racist nastiness towards the Obama administration, after their stated commitment to "see him fail" I was sure we would send all the GOP packing and Hillary would win and she'd get a Congress she could work with. Instead we got this shit show.

I have decided that people are easily, too easily manipulated by the mass media and if we are going to get them to do the right thing we have to constantly push and prod and insist. TheGOP never gives up. They are spewing propaganda and keeping their voters "in readiness" 24/7/365. We have to do the same thing.

t's a long piece but a lot of timeline of Kushner / Trump dealings with the Saudis

NYT: The Wooing of Jared Kushner: How the Saudis Got a Friend in the White House

Since the early months of the Trump administration, Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and Middle East adviser, had been having private, informal conversations with Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the favorite son of Saudi Arabia’s king.

But even with the restrictions in place, Mr. Kushner, 37, and Prince Mohammed, 33, kept chatting, according to three former White House officials and two others briefed by the Saudi royal court. In fact, they said, the two men were on a first-name basis, calling each other Jared and Mohammed in text messages and phone calls.

The exchanges continued even after the Oct. 2 killing of Jamal Khashoggi, the Saudi journalist who was ambushed and dismembered by Saudi agents, according to two former senior American officials and the two people briefed by the Saudis.

Judge Berman just ordered Manaforts lawyers to appear in court in lieu of filing. Manafort must waive appearance if he doesnt want to attend. Seeing that the Judge has an unredacted filing, I suspect the Judge will reprimand the attorneys and possibly request their withdrawal for providing info to Trumps team. Things are about to start to blow up.

^^^on Wednesday^^^

We NEED Kushner OUT of the politics of the Middle East...before it explodes in our faces...literally.

Call me crazy, but Kushner is a whole new conspiracy on its own. That guy must dabble in some seriously fucked up shit to get his pet project, that 666 building, going.

He’s just a post-modern version of DJT r455. Very similar upbringings in many ways.

Oh lort

SCOTUS won't hear states' appeal over Planned Parenthood funding

Dissenting: Thomas, Alito, and ahem, Gorsuch

The Supreme Court is avoiding a high-profile case by rejecting appeals from Kansas and Louisiana in their effort to strip Medicaid money from Planned Parenthood over the dissenting votes of three justices. Lower courts in both states blocked the states from withholding money that is used for health services for low-income women. The money is not used for abortions.

Thanks R458. People pay attention. This is going to be your dissenting trio. Sometimes it will include Kavanaugh for the fourth, or possibly Roberts, but the Republicans will be very surprised as will Donald Trump, to discover the court they thought they had isn't at all what they expected.

R451 - we need the texts/phone call/emails from the Jerry and Mo Show, pronto!

Get on it, Congress.

Agreed r459. The track record for judges bending to the wishes and agenda of the Executive Branch aren’t that impressive.

Jared and Acting Attorney General Matt Whitaker had a meeting on Friday.

Matty is probably hoping Jared will put in a good word for him with Dad so he can get appointed to something. Hah! Or maybe Matty was telling Jar about the shit storm waiting for him. I bet Matt wants to be Chief of staff. I mean...why not...

Since the new House will have hearings on the Khashoggi killing, Jared is in deep shit.

Trump won’t make a real move until one of the kids is charged. He’s petrified and desperate to get out, but he’s now trapped. There are really only a few choices left for him. If he wants to leave with as little humiliation as possible, he’ll be forced to take some responsibility for what he’s done — and he’s not there. The drama is at a 6.5 or a 7, once those kids get charged, it will hit a 10.

MSNBC was discussing this am reports that the new AG pick William Barr was first interviewed / auditioned for a Trump defense lawyer:

REPORT: Trump First Tapped William Barr For Another Job — Defense Lawyer

Before the president nominated Barr to be his Attorney General, White House officials were considering him for a different position. ...At one point, Barr was ushered into a brief White House meeting with Trump, who asked him if he was interested in the job, according to a source who was present for the meeting. Barr demurred. He had other obligations, he said. He would have to think about it.

The spin part:

"Notably, the source said, Barr had watched with dismay Trump’s attacks on Sessions and had no interest in putting up with the same sort of abuse. What finally changed his mind? “Patriotism,” said Flanigan. He and others say Barr genuinely felt the call of duty, especially after the turmoil the Justice Department has experienced in recent weeks with the selection as acting attorney general of Matthew Whitaker, an obscure and inexperienced former U.S. attorney from Iowa whose main apparent credential was that he had previously defended Trump on cable TV. Barr has deep, ongoing and personal ties to the Justice Department. His daughter, Mary Daly, a former federal prosecutor in New York, was named director of opioid enforcement earlier this year in a newly created position under Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. After Barr’s name was floated as a likely attorney general pick this week, several department veterans reached out to him, pleading with him to take the job, saying they were “lighting candles” hoping the reports of his nomination were true, said one knowledgeable source."

r459, the cynic in me believes that it was done so that the Republicans can still use Planned Parenthood as a hot button / read meat issue.

"They sell aborted fetuses' body parts and organs, you know?"

R462, thanks for that. That's huge. Whittaker of course has access to the unredacted Mueller filings, and probably showed them to Kushner, since he's likely being investigated, etc. for his relations to Russia, etc. Maybe Kushner offered Whittaker something in exchange for his "starving" the Mueller investigation...

Between all of this news and the Brexit vote hitting pause...does anyone else feel like the scales are finally falling off of people's eyes? I hope the IC pursues people like Zuckerberg, Bannon and the Mercers.

If Barr really wants respect, he should tell the world that he's going in to babysit and erase any doubts that he'll be another Sessions or Kelly. Sociopaths like Trump need reality and law to neutralize them. Be a hero, Barr, not an enabler.

Forget the deplorables. After today's SC decision they've pivoted to immigration as their only real concern after all!! They should all follow Trump to the woodshed.

They’ll never stop being sheeple. It’s fucking amazing. Look here! No, over there!

Anyone listening to the Mueller, She Wrote podcast? This week's episode was excellent.

no, they won't, r 470.

These types love fascism because they want someone to tell them that their racism, misogyny and homophobia is OK. They need to be told what to do.

Without that, they are nothing but dripping g snowflakes melting in the sun.

Hope he increases the stress eating.

Get after 'em Joyce Vance, Barbara McQuade, and Jill Winebanks. Those female, federal ex-prosecutors that are MSNBC guest commentators must upset DJT and cohorts.

You have to wonder ... when is he going to have the heart attack or stroke?

Corsi seeks $350 million, still freaking out.

r476...When they inform him that they have his recorded phone calls with Putin agreeing to sell the US in exchange for his business interests....and he learns that Ivanka turned on him to save herself.

Trump is looking for a new WH chief of Staff. County Clerk Kim Davis will need a new job in a couple of weeks.

[quote]When they inform him that they have his recorded phone calls with Putin agreeing to sell the US in exchange for his business interests....

So what?

Wait... Brexit has been paused?

Why don’t they just cancel it now that it has come out that it was a scam on the people of the U.K.?

Me thinks Corsi protests too much...

I wonder if Mueller will validate the Corsi affair (Corsi suing Mueller for forcing poor little Corsi to LIE!) with an official statement?

r483....the only statement will be an indictment and/or arrest.

For R481

They need to hang up Brexit for good. What a comple scam from top to bottom.

[quote]Me thinks Corsi protests too much...

Except when someone put a Honeybaked Ham in front of him.

I don't understand something about Brexit. According to what I heard on NPR the Brexit vote was 'advisory only' if had been a regular election then there would be an automatic re-vote based on the cheating from the pro-Brexit side. And yet the British government is treating the vote as if it were law carved in stone. It would be completely legal, from what I understand, for Parliament to say "We've given the British people's advice careful study, and after extensive deliberation, have decided that leaving the EU is not in Britain's best interests."

R488, when mildly pro-EU PM David Cameron left in humiliation, having lost the Brexit vote bet, the next Conservative leader had to commit him/herself to Brexit to win leadership. May was against Brexit, but wanted to be PM, so she gave her word to execute Brexit. That's why she can't back down even now, when the majority of the country doesn't want Brexit anymore (as if they understood it in the first place in voting for it).

Yes, exactly R88. In fact, I could be wrong, but I think the vote that was postponed today would’ve been the 1st time parliament actually voted on Brexit. I’m not sure they had a vote before May asserted Article 50. Of course, it’s all coming back to haunt them now.

But that is the question: why is the British political establishment so determined to do this? (Though they may be losing that determination now.)

And the EU has ruled, call it off, that’s fine. You can have the exact same deal before the referendum. I don’t know what the UK is waiting for. It’s the best way to put an end to this madness. Just stop it.

May is completely boxed in. She likely won’t be PM for long. They have to have the vote.

The majority of the UK political establishment isn't in favor of Brexit, but a Conservative government requires cooperation with the Brexiteers. May is stuck, because of her selfish ambition to be PM.

It IS madness, but the establishment doesn't have the power it once did and the UK has deplorables, too. Not very smart, not even that many of them, but they're louder and this time, they voted.

The UK is screwed either way. If they leave the EU, the Scots will bolt. If they try to find a way to stay in it'll be seen by the Brexiteers as going back with their tale between their legs and hammered for it. And if the Tories keep going the way they have with Mat losing in Parliament, it'll be Boris (he got a haircut!) as the party leader and probably Corbyn as PM.

May was going to lose the vote because the Brexiteers don't think her proposal is hardline enough (hard Brexit) — not because a majority is against Brexit. It's that there was a combination of a plurality (those against Brexit) and enough of the Conservatives (the hardliners) who were ready to vote against the agreement as drafted.

She's not that smart. She shouldn't have been so eager to take up the position as PM, especially since she didn't support Brexit in the first place.

Did Mueller She Wrote post a new episode today? It’s not in my feed.

Excellent post R419.

I am increasingly sickened by what we're seeing coming out of this administration and in the corrupt congress that supports it. The denial of climate change in exchange for immediate profit is deeply upsetting to me. They should all be wearing Melania's "I don't dare, do you?" jacket instead of those stupid maggot hats. The whole gang, including their cohorts in Russia and Saudi Arabia, care for nothing but their own wealth and privilege. The earth and all its creatures and good humans be damned. We're in an epic fight between good and evil. We can't let evil win. Trump should be immediately removed but corrupt cowards are standing in the way.

I have a dream that several hundred thousand people overtake the protection around trump and tear that fucker to shreds.

Not the kind of dream MLK spoke of, his dreams are fading as we are overtaken by an evil we were unable to prevent. Still hoping for this all to turn around but I'm feeling a lot of despair.

So if someone was trying to completely screw the U.K., your saying that they were successful?

In that case, it sounds to me like this was a successful attack on the U.K by another country.

David Cameron was an arrogant idiot in ordering the Brexit vote. It was totally unnecessary and kind of out of the blue. Just a huge moron, thinking that it was a sure thing that the UK would vote in favor of staying in the EU (yes, I know that Scotland voted against Brexit, but I'm talking about the UK overall).

R404 et. al., no one will pardon Trump. I am sure they all privately hate him. He screams at his staff. And we know he only “hires the best people”. But more seriously, these people are unaccustomed to being screamed at. It’s a hostile work invironment. They have figured out he’s a criminal and and an idiot.

Pence will tell Trump anything, but once Trump resigns and loses leverage over Pence, forget it, Trump’s done. I hope he tells Trump after Trump admits guilt. I know that is necessary for a pardon. I assume it must be in writing. That would be perfect. That is the only thing that might get Pence elected President, not a pardon.

I have a dream that one day the U.S. and it’s allies will rise up and fight back against the daily assaults on our democracies. We will fight agains the division, the cyber attacks, the lies, disinformation and propaganda. We will fight back against the ripping apart of families, the cash grabs, the bribes, the policies that destroy Americans such as weakening of healthcare and the increase on tarrifs. We fight against those who are destroying our lakes, rivers, air and oceans. Against the poising of food supplies, the onslaught of prescription drugs and the dismantling of state and local governments. We will fight back against hatred and racism, sexism and hate crimes. I have a dream we will return America and her allies to glory.

Hold that thought, darlin', because you're R500 and this thread will probably close shortly.

Names for getting our kicks on Part 66?

Give Me One Treason to Stay Here?

I vote for Baby, It's Treason Outside

'Twas the Night Before Treason?

There is allegedly a DOJ policy not to indite a sitting President, but can’t the states decide to act differently? I mean, indite as soon as they get the evidence?

There is a DOJ opinion that a sitting President can't be sued, justified (by the DOJ, part of the Executive Branch) that the Chief Executive is - in essence - so busy with affairs of state that he can't take the time out to defend himself.

Unsurprisingly, it's never actually been tested because for all their shortcomings, every past president before this one has had more respect for the office and the nation that to soil it the way Trump has.

I vote for The Night Before Treason. And the one after that should be Auld Lang Treason.

[quote]There is a DOJ opinion that a sitting President can't be sued, justified (by the DOJ, part of the Executive Branch) that the Chief Executive is - in essence - so busy with affairs of state that he can't take the time out to defend himself.

It's very stupid because it essentially says POTUS is above the law because of his job. Nobody is above the law because of their job.

Not to mention that Cheeto declared he is going to defend himself daily, and that's what his tweet-turds are. If he has time to tweet and watch cable news for hours a day, he has time to be indicted and go to court.

Not that I want Pence in, but the Veep and 25th A is there. If a criminal indictment is incapacitating the potus, use the 25th.

I nominate this (thank you Fox News)

Harvard professor Tribe said on Twitter that had Trump shot someone dead her most CERTAINLY would have been indicted.

Trump's quote, though, was "I could shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters."

[quote]Give Me One Treason to Stay Here?

Part 9.

Treason Bells, Treason Bells, Treason All The Way!

I’ll Be Home for Treason

Elizabeth Warren, other key Democratic senators investigate Fox News bonus payments to Trump aide Bill Shine

Four Democratic senators are requesting the White House to hand over documents proving Trump communications advisor Bill Shine is not breaking federal ethics laws as he continues to get paid millions in bonuses by Fox.

Good discussion on Nicolle Wallace’s Show now just about how damning the court charges are against Trump at SDNY. Figliuzzi said, as Kurt Eichenwald, Seth Abramson, and others have, that Trump appears to have committed bank fraud, wire fraud, money laundering, and using his foundation as a slush fund. That’s just on the payoffs to Stormy and Karen!

They said that Republicans in Congress and others close to the WH know that this is very serious, the train has left the station, and there’s nothing stopping SDNY from delivering what they know to Congress—much easier for them than for the Special Counsel to do the same.

Figliuzzi also said the SDNY can indict Trump if they want to.

We Wish You a Merry Christmas And a Treasonous New Year!

I Have My Treasons.

CREW Sues FBI for Giuliani Leak Records

The FBI is in violation of the law for failing to turn over documents related to the FBI’s investigation into the leak of information to Rudy Giuliani in October 2016 that then-FBI Director James Comey was going to reopen the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a personal email system, according to a lawsuit filed today by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW).

I can’t wait for more financial crimes to be exposed. Eventually it’ll all pile up and it’ll be impossible for Trump and his Republican asslickers to deny it. Hopefully these things keep coming fast. Let’s go go go! Fucking annihilate this presidency.

Figliuzzi says Butina’s coming guilty plea is likely part of a cooperation agreement. And when she talks, there’s a good chance she won’t just fuck the NRA but also expose members of the Senate and House who took laundered money from Russia.

He added that Mueller likely farmed out this investigation to another office so that he could be insulated from it—in other words, in case Trump or Whitaker somehow got rid of Mueller, the Butina case would not be affected by it at all. Frank seems very excited about what Butina can expose.

Man, am I ready for that bitch to name names!

Still don't understand why it was ok for Reality Winner to go to prison for leaking sensitive information and Guiliani can reveal that the FBI is re-opening the investigation into Hillary's emails forcing Comey to make his official statement. He didn't even get charged for that, but Liberal Reality Winner gets the book thrown at her.

[quote] also expose members of the Senate and House who took laundered money from Russia

Yes, please!

And now presenting on CNN, Trump ass licker rep Adam Kinsinger, addressing the Trump felony charges with more spin than a cotton candy machine.

Treason by the Mistletoe

Orrin Hatch and that fucker Chuck Grassley need a comeuppance....theyre going to retire without a worry in the world.....and they are as corrupt as they come. If Hatch and Grassley would have said these things in front of me, I would have handed him his ass. These people need to be challenged for their rhetoric.

thread....(short)

This story lines up with what we were talking about yesterday - Republicans are privately discussing Trump.

r521....Remember, the original Butina charging documents stated that there were secret societies within the GOP that were aligned with Russia.... McConnell took 2.9 million.....Miss Graham took close to a million....Gowdy took a million....so did Chaffetz (why do you think he made a beeline out of town) theres something like 24 members of CONGRESS (both houses) that took Russian money.

Do we know for a fact that those asshats took money from Russia or is that just an internet rumor?

I'll add - did they knowingly take money from Russia or was it just dark money that turned out to be Russian?

Where's that clip of Paul Ryan talking about Russian money?

Chris Christie’s name is floating around for WH Chief if Staff? Well that’ll go over like a lead balloon. Christie Kream prosecuted Jared’s corrupt father, sending him to prison.

Jared has made peace with Crispie!

Months ago Christie said that Jared Kushner should be scrutinized, he deserved it. No way is Christie on any list for the White House. I think the anonymous sources just put his name out there automatically.

This one, r532?

He would make a very good Chief of Staff!

Maybe ‘Chef of Staff’

My secret shame is that Chris Christie makes my hole twitch.

That hole Jared, refers to a donut.

Christie is working something like 5 jobs now. The ABC gig, the speaker's circuit, the new law firm, the BOD of a non-profit, and he has a book coming out next month. I think the only government job he would take now is VP, where Trump couldn't fire him.

Is Christie working all those jobs to payoff the families of those who fell on their swords for him during Bridgegate?

Another fucking thug....getting away with it

Karma, that bitch, better be lurking around for some payback

Who fell on their swords for Christie? Wildstein testified that he never discussed the plan with Christie. He had an immunity deal and he's Jared Kushner's BFF - he wouldn't have covered up anything for Christie. Kelly's lawyer would have blamed Christie in a minute. Instead, Kelly testified that she told Christie it was a legitimate bridge study.

I have this bridge....

Of course he never did, R543, and at this point testifying against Christie would have done what for Wildstein? I didn't and still don't believe that either of these operatives did anything without telling the bloviated one.

I still want to know why Ryan is leaving Congress. The story about wanting to spend time with his kids is obvious bullshit. Is he trying to jump a sinking ship and hoping people forget him and therefore don't investigate him?

I can tell you without a doubt the worthless fucker, rob Portman has taken that NRA blood money.

They donate to that bag of shit every year and that shitstain has the nerve to crow about his "pro life" bullshit. I want that smarmy fucker to fry.

R500, don't you worry. We already took back the house and now we are gunning for the Senate and the presidency.

My work group has already started gearing up for 2020 by recruiting people to help fund raise and register people to vote. We are going to fight.

Mueller can do his part and we can do ours. We have to give him cover.

'Atta girl, R547!

[quote]The story about wanting to spend time with his kids is obvious bullshit.

Quite a few people have suddenly remembered they "have kids".

I still think it's suspicious that the guy who took out Christie happened to be Kushner's friend... a friend who previously helped Kushner try to take out Christie when Christie first ran for Governor. What a coincidence.

MAGA Hari pleading guilty is wonderful; her naming names and bring down the NRA's Dark Money would be sublime.

Do you think Russia would invade Ukraine... just to distract the U.S. from Trump's scandals? Is that too paranoid?

This Treason Will Never Grow Old.

Could happen, R552. Remember Georgia.

It wouldn't be to distract from Trump's BS, R552. The world doesn't revolve around dickhead. Putin's wanted to invade for some time. Trump's tenure is convenient for him because the asshole is weak and beholden. Even if he weren't an asset for Russia, which I believe he is, ol' bone spurs is too afraid.

Never go back to Georgia...

Someone upthread said they wanted Fox news to go down with all of this.

Don't forget, Cohen did work for Hannity, no? We never found out the truth of what he was doing for him, did we?

Shit, sorry, I posted that in wrong thread @r556, but you're talking about the other Georgia here.

I've been hoping he gets dragged down in the same way, R557. Thanks for bringing it up again. He's a disgrace and I can't believe he calls himself a 'journalist' with that bias.

On @Lawrence tonight (MSNBC, ~ 10:15 PM), I’ll explain why the Constitution REQUIRES that a sitting president be subject to indictment, at least for crimes committed in the acquisition of his office, notwithstanding any DOJ policy or practice to the contrary.

R561 does he refer to himself as a journalist? I don't watch the fucker. I thought though that he uses the, "I'm a personality, not a journalist" bit in order to keep spraying his shit everywhere for the Deplorables to eat up.

Judge Nap said that Trump could be potentially be charged with crimes. So... Tucker Carlson criticized Trump (albeit to a foreign journalist.) Fox is admitting that Trump could be charged with campaign finance crimes. Christie said on George S. that the Cohen prosecutors might have evidence against Trump. Ayers ran back to Georgia. Republican Senators are having private conversations about abandoning Trump.

How many mooches does Trump have left?

Surprisingly, we know parts of the backstory for each one of these individuals.....and this list is just the Americans.....

^^^sorry, wrong link^^^

correct....

Be joyful! Lindsey has the holiday spirit.

Wonder which one of those he took a load from, R567?

Well, it certainly wasn't from Sen. Tim Scott to his right—both of them are strictly bottoms, you know.

It's too bad Omarosa didn't play her cards right - she could have been Chief of Staff.

I completely forgot about Omarosa. She sort of fizzled out, didn't she?

Ayers is worth between $10–55 million. He doesn't need Congressional scrutiny on how he made the money. They mentioned that on Pod Save America today.

$10 - 55 Million? That's quite a range.

"‘Tis the treason!" Thanks for the new thread title, Miss Lindsey (via r567).

Who is that womyn in the softball hat at r568? We once shared a night of passion betwixt two raccoon-proof tarps upon The Land at the start of a particularly triggering Jupiter return, but she was gone with the sun.

Ohhh, the sweet memories of that womyn’s greedy mouth suckling at the holy temple of my yoni, during my moontime. Bliss!

^^Make that r567. I was masturbating furiously while I typed that.

[quote]Trump’s impulsive announcement quickly became an even bigger problem when it turned out that Kelly’s replacement was not sewn up; Ayers surprised Trump later that day by insisting that he only wanted the job short term. “Trump was pissed, he was caught off guard,” a former West Wing official briefed on the talks said. Sources said Ayers, who has triplets, told Trump he wanted to return to Georgia with his wife in the spring and work on a super PAC supporting Trump’s 2020 re-election. But a former White House official said Ayers wanted to avoid intense scrutiny on his financial dealings (last year, Ayers reported a net worth of $12.2 million to $54.8 million from his political-consulting ventures). “He started getting calls from reporters with requests for information about how he made his money and he thought, ‘Do I really want to do this?’” said a source familiar with his thinking.

Correction: Ayers is worth between $12–54 million, according to his White House financial disclosure forms, they said on Pod Save America today.

Who knew plowing your older look alike could pay so much?

Ayers really does look like a younger version of Pence. It's kind of creepy.

Well we know where to start investigating when Ayers runs for office.

Speaking of Omarosa, she weighed in today on the CoS fracas, Ayers, her speculation that Trump may be looking to appoint a woman CoS.

From the news reports that I've read, it doesn't sound like Trump wants a Chief of Staff - he just wants a buddy that he can kvetch with.

R577 That's like cashing in your check and running for the hills.... for the sake of his family of course, not his own cowardly ass.

Nothing less than cuffs on Trump will do.

Time for a new thread?

In the meantime here's a nice takedown by Matt Yglesias. Kelly didn't even live up to the basics of the WH CoS's job.

He'd never admit it, but do you think Trump's inner monologue is just screaming, "Dear God, I fucked up!"?

So, Trump is looking for a well-known woman with governmental and nepotism experience who has a track record for pleasing menz and is beloved by his base?

I'm available.

No,R587, narcissists are incapable of such self-reflection. He’s just a bad specimen of shit.

BOTTOMLESS PINOCCHIO is happening whether we want it to or not

Link to new thread for when this one maxes out.

Maddow is holding forth tonight with a 25 minute “watch this space” monologue on the Russia-NRA nexus.

We’ll see more soon, she says. This is my least favorite part of her program, but we WILL see soon!

Chris Cuomo was just fighting with Rick Santorum about “44 members of Congress sign a letter,” something about denouncing Trump. What was that all about?

CNN is such a reliable employer of GOP assholes like Santorum/felcher.

The WH is hiring, ladies! No experience needed!

Disagree r402. We're still at the middle of the beginning imo. This is going to be a very very long haul, with so many stories of so much deviancy it will be hard to keep track. We've got years to go yet.

I think everyone is in the other thread now. Link posted again, below:

Link to new thread:

Maria Butina and Paul Erickson - what a lovely and talented young couple.

Closing this thread

Link to new thread:

Not done yet.