British Royal Family Part 6: general gossip and information

For when Part 5 is full of course.

One thing to keep in mind: the Gloucesters are richer than the Kents. Two generations ago, each prince had an allocation from the state. The Duke of Gloucester, third son of George V, who lived a long life, continued to get this annual allocation until his death. The Duke of Kent, fourth son of George V, died young and his widow, Princess Marina, received no allocation. The Kents (the current Duke, Princess Alexandra, and Prince Michael) have been much less well off than the Duke of Gloucester, who was the only surviving son of the first duke, Prince Henry. This was discussed in the 1970s when they were considering an allowance for a putative widow of Prince Andrew...it was my first encounter with the word "putative." It all became moot when the system was changed such that only the monarch, consort, and heir receive a direct allocation, with the monarch funding the other relations.

R2 see R1

There's so much supposition about who hates who and internal sniping within the ranks, I'm on a one fag mission to post pictures of them semi or totally off guard and let the picture speak for itself.

^ Why the old pic of Andy and Will?

R4's pic: "And THEN she told him that because he's soon to be the son of a King, he should take YOUR country house!!"

So, per last post in last thread (Part 5) documents were filed in October for planning permission for renovations to Frogmore Cottage.

That's around a month ago.

When did the Sussex duo return from Down Under?

And where are those pictures of Will's bulge?

Does this work for you?

no

William taking a piss at the edge of a sports field some years ago:

Link to a French blog that has more stills from the video. The video is supposedly there too but I can't get it to play for me.

Then look them up for yourself, R11, you lazy piece of shit.

no

There isn't enough pictures of me on this thread

We think it's wonderful that verb/subject agreement escapes you, Prince(ess) George(ina) despite your peerless "education." Tell us a bit more about yourself, please.

Kate booted Meghan out of the palace.

Rank has its privileges, bitch.

I think HM, Charles and William realize Meghan is a lost cause and are marginalizing her in the hopes she will get frustrated and leave. They'll stick them at Windsor and won't assign her patronages. She'll be stuck joining Harry for his patronages or trying to develop her own. Since Harry is no longer being included on the Cambridges' outings, he will have limited visibility, too. Unless she starts organizing pap walks, we won't see as much of her in the future. Heck, we should begin placing bets on whether they let her do the walk to church at Sandringham at Christmas.

What will also be interesting is to see if they have given up hope for Harry, a la Andy. He'll always have their protection, but will they sideline him after the divorce or will they build him up again as they have over the past years?

This article claims that Harry and Meghan have known that they'd be moving to FrogCott since July. It was just announced because the renovation is to commence as architectural plans were approved and finalized last month. This move is not looking like the royal snub many of us have painted it to be, myself included. I bet that place is going to be really nice when it's finished. They're going to turn it into a five bedroom home with a mother-in-law studio over another structure in the back.

That’s utter nonsense. They will be doing more events after she has that baby, now they are slowing doing because she’s pregnant. And even her “slowing down” is more busy than Cambridges ever were. H&M also get more glamorous and international events. The Australian tour was a huge success, minor hiccups aside. Yes, Meghan is hardly a shrinking violet, but it will teach the Royal family not to mess with her.

Where are all these events of which you have such commanding and detailed knowledge, R22?

And as interesting, what horrible fate awaits if they mess with the powerful Meagain Mercher?

Royal Reporter Richard Palmer, who reports are generally accurate and he's no butt kissing royalist either, confirms the gossip coming out of Royal circles that Meghan is allegedly demanding and difficult. He also says in his twitter thread the decision to move to Frogmore stems more for a desire to raise their child outside of the city, but he also confirms serious tension between Kate and Meghan.

Two women not getting along for no apparent reason is hardly an unusual situation.

R25 No one said anything about it being unusual, we're just stating talking gossip here. It's not at all uncommon that sisters-in-law don't see eye to eye.

I have a bad feeling about this marriage and think it will end badly. My guess is that Meghan is calling the shots behind the scenes which I guess stems for Harry's lack of emotional maturity and the need for a mother figure. Also, they didn't date long enough and most of their relationship was spent apart.

In the previous thread someone speculated about post-divorce living quarters with the possibility Haz would stay at Frog Cott and Bean be moved to another grace-and-favor elsewhere. There is another possibility - Fort Belvedere so beloved of Edward VIII is still in the ownership of the RF. It’s leased to a Canadian couple who are close friends of the RF but if need be they could give up the lease as was done with Anmer Hall then Bean could remain in Frog Cott and Haz could go to his disgraced great uncle’s crib.

Can you guys please stop with the Trumpian nicknames? Nobody knows who you’re talking about. Whose “Bean?”

I read that MM and PH are going to renovate Frogmore Cottage in a 5 bedroom and a place for Doria in the back .Doria is going to regret that she’s gonna be a caretaker for the child . She will be on duty 24/ 7 seven days per week . I don’t think these two are gonna be busy with their child when the photo ops are over and all the excitement from the birth will be over too .

Meghan dictating to Prince Charles where she and Prince Harry will live.You all give her wayyyyy too much credit.Prince Charles is consolidating operations....end of non-story.Who gets what is up to him....he will be King.

It’s public knowledge, R23. Note that H&M get the events like the Hamilton Gala and Royal Variety Performance, while W&K are relegated to the soup kitchen.

They know that they will be exposed as racists if they try anything against Meghan. I doubt this is the risk they would be willing to take.

That's H&M and W&C, peasant.

"Haz" was the diminutive Meghan coined for Harry to her friends. "Bean" is the nickname she would post about herself in her blog, on her Instagram posts, or any articles she wrote in referencing her Dad. Her father apparently gave her the nickname of Bean, as well as Buckaroo. These origins is what resulted in the portmanteau "HazBean" for the Sussexes. Call it Trumpian but it is Meghan herself who gave these names (aside from the funny HazBean combo).

The Duke Of Pork continues his tour of Australia.

Lol at the notion the royal variety show is prime real estate.

I know, right? The Royal Variety Show is one of those chores the royals jockey whose turn it is to do. The BRF are stuck with it but none of them want to do it. The closest they got to an A-lister attending this year was Andrea Bocelli, and that is nominal at best. Maybe it will be permanently assigned to the Sussexes as one of their "patronages?"

R28 can you please pull the stick out of your ass? There is fuck all “Trumpian” (whatever the fuck you think that means) in using the names BEAN herself uses.

Still a bit amazed Her Megjesty is going to live in the relative isolation of Windsor Great Park. She’ll be pulling a Lady Chatterley out of sheer boredom. Either that or motoring up to Sowhore House right after breakfast each day.

R35 I know, right? Hosting deserving finalists of Radio 1's Teen Heroes of 2018, that’s where the true fabulousness.

R24 Richard Palmer's article about the move

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Interesting Tidbit: Camilla's engagement ring once belonged to Charles' beloved grandmother, The Queen Mum.

Fergie posing with Eugenie and Jack.

Interesting that Cam was given the heirloom from his beloved grandmother and Di got to pick one from a tray sent over from the jeweller.

Some women don’t want the bad luck associated with other people’s jewels. I doubt Kate would have chosen Diana’s ring if she had a choice.

Some people aren't Queen Mary...

[quote]They know that they will be exposed as racists if they try anything against Meghan

You're suggesting their motivation would be her biracial ethnicity, not bad behavior? Why "exposed" vs. "accused?" The former is predicated on the assumption that the Cambridges are indeed racist. Have they demonstrated any instances of prejudiced or bigoted behavior? Please provide an example or two.

Have the Cambridges ever been in the company of black people that were not a part of the crowd?

[R48]

Checkmate........

Your serve.......you all are hilarious

Whomever made the assertion the Cambridges are racist is the only one who has to prove their statement. No one else has to engage except the person who has alleged something as fact and IT IS NOT FACT until it is proven. Dodging and weaving with nonsense like in R48 is empty smoke and mirrors.

How do you guys know they are actually moving to Windsor? Maybe that place is just a country house for weekends and holidays or to stay out of the public eye for a couple of months after their first child is born. W&C did the same after George was born.

I don't think the Cambridge"s are involved. No this reeks of the cousins who are soon to be cut off and their lackeys in the press.Who have built careers on insider Royal news but fear,as Palmer told a magazine (Marie Claire,Sept edition)

"William and Harry are very much in control of whats released to the media....an those they allow into the royal circle."

What kind of an answer is that, R48? Are you suggesting that white people who are not typically in the company of black people socially are racist by default? News flash, that typifies the vast, vast majority of the white population who are upper middle class (if not just middle class) and above. Where in their lives have they had the occasion to make friends or socialize with POC in their own social strata and of similar economic means? Marlborough, Eton, and Saint Andrews are pretty lily white as are the Home Counties, if you have not noticed. No examples of prejudicial or bigoted behavior, I see.

I believe that Kensington Palace official confirmed the Sussexes are moving to Frogmore Cottage and that it will be their "official residence".

I'm too lazy to look it up.

If you doubt the story is true, check the KP official press releases.

The Telegraph published it

Offical residence,as of nxt year Frogmore Cottage Cottswold will be a still be a country getaway

I was surprised so many royals are buried at Frogmore, i do hope the renovations are spectacular. ...it will serve the naysayers right

R44, Charles could not have given Diana his grandmother's ring even if he'd wanted to because the Queen Mother was still alive in 1981.

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I find William so unattractive. It's those gopher teeth, primarily.

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Eugenie looks good with straighter hair at r43. Fergie should not wear black, esp sheer black.

I will never believe that Meghan (or Harry) *chose* to leave Kensington for this dilapidated pile in the country. It's the old servants' quarters FFS. She and Harry were booted. Meghan loves the fishbowl. How will she be photographed every day with her child in the pram if she's out in the middle of nowhere?

It doesn’t matter if they really ARE racists or not, they try something against Meghan, they will be SEEN as racists. Meghan made a preemptive strike when she threatened the press, now everybody knows any action they take will be construed as racism. Even words are not necessary. Blackamoor brooch = racism. And once the public sees that, it will stay with them forever. Nobody confirmed Cambridges are behind this move, it’s all gossip and rumors, but everyone now KNOWS Kate does not get along with Meghan and this is how it’s going down in history books.

R61 If plans to renovate Froghall already existed in July, I doubt a Meghan and Kate feud was the reason. They live in the same building now, if they really hate each other why not just move to another apartment/house in London? I think they just want to raise the baby in the countryside. At least the first couple of years.

As I said in the other thread, Windsor is not countryside. Not at all. It's suburbia.

If Diana were still alive, I wonder what kind of relationship she and Charles would have now? They were on extremely bad terms at the time of her death, but maybe they would have softened towards each other over the years. Or maybe not. Either way, the media would have loved the drama of Diana sitting near Charles and Camilla at William and Harry's respective weddings, and posing with them in the official family photos.

[R59]

Thank you,he has quite a package. I am suddenly jealous of Kate.....

I agree R66. I think I would have waited the 7-8 years, too, for a lifetime of THAT.

Most British people are only friends with white people - the country is 87% white, and those figures are even higher if you go outside the major cities. Berkshire, where Kate grew up, is only 6% non-white, and almost all of those are South Asians. It's not the US.

Re. R43:

"there were three of us in this marriage, so it's a bit crowded."

Jack, Princess of Whales

I imagine they are quite racist as most likely most of the British aristocracy are. After all our racist founding fathers and most of the Southern slave owners were British descendants.

What an incredibly ignorant statement.

Yep r471 it is. Welcome to the DL!

Sorry that was obviously for r71

[quote] No this reeks of the cousins who are soon to be cut off and their lackeys in the press.

I hope you are referring to the Yorks and not the Gloucester or Kents. We already discussed this in the last thread. The older cousins of the Queen aren't interested in digging at anybody and aren't put out by being asked to move when needed. They also don't have 'lackeys' in the press. Please.

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Relax girls. You’re both right! Moving against Meghan will 100% be seen as racist, no matter the motive. AND British royalty/nobility/aristocracy are also likely very racist.

Anyway, please keep making up gossip about how these people hate each other. I’m a little tired of reading about Shawn and Timmy.

r65 Charles and Diana were on ok terms when she died, relations between the two were already thawing out slowly. They spoke occasionally about issues surrounding their sons and were mostly on the same page there. She was resigned to his relationship with Camilla and that she would end up by his side when he became King.

I have a feeling they would have ended up good friends and co-parents. Charles would have turned out surprisingly supportive of her I think, and perhaps vice versa as time went on.

Diana and Charles were actually on quite good terms at the time of her death, or so I have read. He'd even stop by for tea from time to time. She'd call for his advice, and supposedly joke with him about his sweaters. He wore a particular suit at her funeral because it was her favorite (He keeps his clothes forever). One of the queen's relatives swore up and down that Charles was always Diana's great love in Diana's mind, not Hasnat Kahn. Per an interview I'd read with Kahn, which was circumspect and respectful, Diana had basically ghosted Kahn right before the end of her life. When he couldn't reach her, he knew what was happening as he'd seen her do it before. Prior to that he'd spent a long time basically living with her at KP, or at least it was near to a second home, he overnighted there so frequently. He was very diplomatic and extremely noncommittal about whether or not they would ever have had a permanent romantic future, but Kahn felt they would always end up friends.

I also read somewhere that Charles had told family and friends he anticipated having to care for Diana for the rest of his life. She didn't seem to be on any track towards stability or personal happiness, as her final liaison with Dodi Fayed (if it was indeed that and not a publicity stunt) sort of shows. Or maybe he meant "Be responsible for her" ultimately, as the mother of his sons.

R56 he was especially close with his grandmother, it isn’t beyond the bounds of possibility he could have asked her for it.

Interesting r78. Insightful. It may be why he and others in the Royal Fam are so indulgent of Andrew's handling of Fergie after all these years, keeping her tucked into Royal Lodge and taking vacations with her.

Was Diana allowed to keep her patronages after her divorce? I seem to recall she was. She kept her apartment at KP as well, I believe that was hers unless she re-married. I wonder what kind of role she would have played as a "Royal Adjacent" if she had lived- ? If she would have some kind of unofficial role in a court of King Charles, some kind of roving ambassador or something similar.

Actually, R7, I agree with that. Diana was nuts and Charles was spoiled rotten but both of them had good hearts in their own ways. They'd have managed something, especially if Diana had found a partner with whom she felt secure. That would have made all the difference. And I'm glad Diana took Charles to the cleaners financially, it's the least she deserved for having Camilla in her marriage.

Sorry, that was for R77.

Divorced or not, I don't think there'd be a Duchess of Cornwall as we know her today if Diana had not died.

[R74]

Princess Micheal had a friend at Tattler she regularly leaked stories too.That's common knowledge. I never mentioned the Gorchester's except to wonder if they had more money then the Kents.It you thats following me from thread to thread trying to drag the Gorchester's into it.For what reason,i do not know.Stop gaslighting for the Kents

Frogmore is not a country getaway, it is their residence. They will have no London residence or abode or pied a terre. They are out of KP.

The plans are not for a spectacular renovation. The permissions were filed months ago and are for very prosaic improvements such as drainage, a canopy in front and back, two parking lots and attaching a studio to the main structure. Here's the fun part - it is configured as 3 x 3 bedroom units and 1 x 1 bedroom unit, and is not being reconfigured as a single family dwelling per the current permissions. It all sounds very 'get this up to code", not "get this up to royal snuff."

There are other options available all over Great Britain on the estates of royal properties - it is extremely common to have not just one but multiple cottages and smaller homes on a large royal estate. But this was the one chosen by the Queen, who doubtless wanted to respect the Harkles' much publicized intention to raise their children "normally" and take them on subways and such. No titles. You can't get more "normal" than a once fairly modest single home structure subdivided into separate little apartment units to maximize the value one gets out of the space.

Harry does not have the cash to purchase his own independent London apartment away from the royal properties. As Richard Palmer noted, apparently no other non Nott Cott apartments were "available" although I think we can all understand that to mean, "Not available to Harry and Meghan.". Not on offer. Not to mention the huge logistical and security issues that would entail even if he had the money for it. Even their most partisan fans in the media are clear - it ain't a getaway, it's their home base. They can shuttle over to Soho Farmhouse, as ever, if they want a getaway. Oh, excuse me, I mean their "rental property in the Cotswolds."

Thread stalkers!

Oh I think there would be r83. In fact he might have been able to marry Camilla a bit sooner, before 2007, if Diana hadn't died. It was because of her shock death that his 'coming out' plan for Camilla was delayed by several years.

If things were good with Diana, and relations positive, there probably wouldn't be that much controversy re a "Queen Camilla" either. Diana could make several subtle public statements of support re the idea, and bring a lot of people on board to it.

The nicknames are tiresome and confusing.

Who are the "Gorchesters' r84? Never heard of them. And bugger off re me or anyone 'stalking' you; I don't have a clue who I was responding to in the prior thread, only that there were points to be made about the loyalty of some of the elder secondary Royals and I made them, as part of a general discussion. Not everything is about you or in response to you, you know.

What is 'gaslighting' for the Kents lol? Have no idea.

R83, true. And what we might have instead is a divorced Prince of Whales with a well known lady friend who had to remain in the shadows. While Diana's own romantic life got either more desperate or sad. Unless she effected some extraordinary turn around. By most accounts, she did not envision a cozy domestic life, even with Hasnat Kahn. She wanted them to be sort of celebrity Doctors without Borders, international superstars using their influence to improve the world. He wasn't into that idea. She was. She wanted to big him up.

Thanks for sharing R88. Everyone, let's change how things are posted and referenced to R88's personal taste. That's why we're here.

[R85]

It used to be residential for royal staff,it is being converted to a 10 bedroom single family home. Do you have 10 bedrooms and eight baths.Thats not a minor rehabilitation job.

R80, didn't the royal family say something like Diana was still considered a family member and would be included in events at times? They did their best to respect her position as mother to the future sovereign, although I think it was Charles who insisted on striking the HRH.

Was trying to find this. Charles and Diana greeting each other 3/10/97. Said to be the last time they were photographed together.

No it is not, R81, being converted to a 10 bedroom single family home. Nowhere in the planning permissions filed months ago, which you have not read, is that a plan. It is what I said - drainage. Canopies. Parking lot. Attaching the detached studio. The configuration is staying. There are no plans on file to change the configuration.

There WERE reports that the place as it now exists had 10 bedrooms total, which Richard Palmer says is not true and in fact there is but a fraction of that number.

R94 is clearly the fabulous Duchess of Reno. Don’t argue with her; she knows her gut jobs!

I hope nobody is reading fantasist Camilla Tomininy or however her name is spelled, who imagines Meghan and her Haz one day moving across the lawn to Frogmore House itself. That is a laugh - it is not a residence. But any bigging up of the property is coming from that sort of "let's suppose" quarter and not from reality.

R94- lolz

Sorry, meant R95 lolz

It was actually the divorce attorneys who got Diana's HRH dropped. Anthony Julius represented Diana and Fiona Shackleton Charles. Diana was encouraged by Julius to give up her HRH in return for a better financial deal.

Charles didn't necessarily 'insist' on it as use it as a bargaining chip in the negotiations, one Diana took but later regretted. it of course had repercussions a few months later for Fergie, who divorced Andrew in the same time period and also had to give up her HRH.

I think a lot of the royal reporters were caught off guard with the Frog Cott move . They all hyped the apartment 1 story as a sure thing and now they have to come up with a reason for why they were wrong and what better than to create a rift between brothers and wives story.

I think we all were caught off guard by news of the Frog Cott move. It goes against all conventional wisdom of what we generally know re the UK royals and about H &M as well (so far).

Who knows, maybe they'll be blissfully happy out in Windsor and we'll never hear another peep about tension and dissension. Hey it could happen.

Article from the UK Telegraph detailing Diana and Charles's divorce, an interview with Charles's former personal banker:

There is no way in hell this move was decided in July. This is a snub plain and simple and if Harry doesn't help MM to learn the ropes and abide by protocol there will be many more to come.

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Planning permission document

What does this photo say?

r104 is a good read. Lots of subtle artful shade there.

re r105 and the planning permissions: the entries dating from last spring probably were before a decision was reached for H & M to move in. It looks like they were going to consolidate the apartments. Now there will be new plans, but wont those be private and sealed?

Because it is a LISTED building, these planning documents must be submitted.

That's to prevent people who live there from changing the building in ways unwanted for a listed building.

I would think it is like the "National Register of Historic Places" in the USA.

However "consent for various internal changes" could not be more vague.

If it's three apartments with three bedrooms each and one apartment with one bedroom then it is ten bedrooms. After the renovations it will have fewer but it seems to be ten now.

[quote]Meghan is hardly a shrinking violet, but it will teach the Royal family not to mess with her.

Been there, done that. And look where it got me.

Diana's in a league of her own, Megan will never get anywhere near Diana's level. If she works at it she can do better than Fergie.

If it was a snub, we will know anout it soon enough, as Meghan is sure to act up in some way.

[R100]

Spot on....Palmer and the rest are scambling,so yup lets bring back the anti-Meghan gibberish.It sells and that section of royal haters feed on it like starved piranhas. Mix in the disguntled cousins and you have royal stories for days.

Speaking of family, we haven't heard from Meghan's recently. Did she finally pay them off? Is that why Harry can't afford his own London pile?

Harry and Meghan could have apartments at St. Jame's or Buck House for London diggs.

R81 what did Diana deserve for being the third wheel in so many other marriages?

Didn’t she die a tragic death, or is that still not enough for you?

No idea, r112, but the wives in those marriages deserved to take their husbands to the cleaners. Just as husbands should take their rich wives to the cleaners if the wives are long-term cheaters.

Obviously Charles and Diana's relationship was unique given their position. Normal couples can separate and divorce if they wish to be with other partners. If someone really wants to leave their spouse for another person, they should be able to manage it decently in about six months. Endlessly making excuses, dragging out affairs for years, it's all bullshit.

I'm not anti-Charles, I like Charles. The Camilla affair was a nasty bit of business and I'm glad Diana cleaned him out for it. He recovered, he's fine and very rich. Good for him but even the Prince of Wales has consequences once in a while.

It's just my opinion, I don't want adulterers wearing Scarlet letters, just writing their spouses fat checks.

So Di should’ve written several checks to Charles then? How many, one to cover each man she committed adultery with?

I agree that Diana and Charles would've come to terms with their divorce and relationship, and eventually she would've gotten the mental health support she desperately needed. I'm not sure what her diagnosis would've been as I'm not remotely an expert, but in hindsight it's clear she had some major mental health issues. And this is why her children are so committed to mental health initiatives.

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^ lol. the second season of "The Windsors" did an episode in Poundbury. It was funny showing things made of styrofoam and such.

Among the Queen's children, only Prince Edward holds the distinction of having a successful FIRST marriage to Sophie.

We will never see her like again.

I hope her children have Kate's abundant hair and not Will's.

R125 Its only success is that neither Sophie nor Ed have been publicly caught out cheating or grifting. This despite the scandale when ole Soph's PR firm partner hinted they could set up sex tours and gay parties for clients and use the royal family to boost business and capitalize on Soph's and Ed’s names by coordinating their ad campaigns with photo opportunities staged by the royals.

[R119]

You don't think cheaters should wear Scarlet letters.

Interesting statement,so you don't mind them being penalized, but they shouldn't be publically ridiculed.That’s very hypocritical. I mean if they never feel the condemnation of their bad choices. What's to stop them from doing it over and over again?Thinking a check will solve everything. Its dosen't

Ever noticed

Camilla is older than Charles

Fergie is older than Andrew

Anne is older than her current husband

Catherine is older than William

Meghan is older than Harry

Koo Stark, Andrew's old flame, is older than he is

Just found that interesting.

Harry and Meghan theoretically could use any one of dozens of properties, cottages, apartments, houses, etc. in London or without but cannot, as none have been made available to them. Without prior agreement, they can’t swing in to any inhabited royal spot and decide to stay there. Not without permission. Currently even their partisans in the media have been clear they are out of London and set down in frogmore cottage, and whatever their Cotswolds thing is, that set up continues. But London is closed.

R130 and Diana was 12 years younger than Charles.

I’d put some of these as at the same age if they’re only a year apart. Was Diana older than Dodi or Kahn?

It's silly to keep speculating on why Harry and Megs have "agreed" to live in such a place. To read it told by you all, they've been BANISHED from London forever. They're merely taking the same route that Will and Kate took when they first began having children. They'll move to the burbs/country for a few years to enjoy some freedom with raising the one or two children they'll have before the serious work of being a Royal begins for them. Again, we must remember that Harry is both the son and brother of future Kings, and as such he will enjoy having that status and all the perks which come with it. Let's not forget that the most important job of the Monarch as a whole, and I'm quoting here, is "SURVIVAL." Will's kids won't be old enough to play a significant role with their presence for years into the future. Harry and Megs WILL be called upon to contribute heavily to ensuring the institution continues on into the future. It's a good thing that they'll be given this special time for their family. Honestly, there's nothing to see here, folks.

Here's the thing, the BRF very much does want the Sussexes to assume their proper role in the Firm. The issue is they continue to brandish themselves as some strain of Hollywood celebrity which risks irreparably tarnishing the idea of monarchy. The royals are supposed to be steady, noble, dignified, timeless, removed from anything base or corruptible. Meghan and Harry's boorish behavior and flagrant commercialism devalues royal currency which will consequently cause them to be banished to the fringes if they are perceived as threatening the social foundations of the whole institution.

Has Meghan ever been in the company of black people that were not a part of the crowd? (excluding her family)

The only shades of color I can recall Meghan associating with can be named on one hand: Her mother, Serena Williams, and Priyanka Chopra. Otherwise it's a sea of whitewash, from boyfriends to husbands to best friends...

Your forgetting Oprah also attended the royal wedding R136. Clearly, that means that she and Megs are best friends.

Oprah who used Meaghan's mother to get an invite. And then wore a horrid outfit. Not Oprah's best moment.

You can bet your ass if anything like a framed shot of Oprah and Meghan together was floating about, Meghan would have long promoted it as a storied friendship. Their first and probably only face to face meeting was no doubt the reception.

Diana had issues but rabid anti-Diana freaks are dumb and tiresome.

Well that Lear’s that up r140. Any other scintillating insights? No?

Who shut down Tendrils 29 after only one post?

Oprah and the Clooneys showing their ass by rolling up to a "royal wedding" when they knew no royals, certainly not the bride and groom, and then it's like, "This is it? This is cheap AF." Because it wasn't a real royal wedding. Clearly done at a breakneck pace with details neglected.

R133, it is not the Will and Kate route. Will had a job as an rescue helicopter pilot, he and Kate bunked at Anglesley "Cottage" was actually a mansion with outbuildings of its own. They still had Nott Cott as their London apartment.

As the media has confirmed, NO London accomodations are now available to Meghan and Harry, and they are sent to Frogmore Cottage, a pokey (by royal standards) residence where previously servants resided. It is divided into 4 apartments plus a studio that is being attached, and the permissions application show no planned conversion to a single family residence, as it would have to publicly if it were intended, since it's a listed building. Planned improvements include two parking lots, which sounds extremely homey. Furthermore, it's under a flight path. If people want to spin this as on par with Will and Kate's trajectory, surely they are free to, but it's fantasy.

The royal family has been devaluing itself DECADES before Meghan joined the family. Why some people act like the royals are saints and Meghan is some sort of Jezebel is ridiculous. She’s no worse than the rest of them.

The Meghan/Kate fake feud is the new Aniston/Jolie feud for fraus. Will there be Team Meghan or Team Kate shirts?

R142 idiots who keep talking race and making thinly veiled racist comments about meghan and her mother.

It's like they can't help themselves.

Anglesley Cottage was not a "mansion" although the interior might be done up, it's basically a farmhouse.

Nobody was making racist comments r146. You are full of shit.

As I recall, the Queen gifted Meghan and Harry with some estate on the grounds of Sandringham, didn't she? Wedding present I thought. And I remember she gifted William and Catherine with Anmer Hall to raise little George. I think they eventually moved back to KP because of security concerns even though they said it was for schooling and for William and Kate to participate more actively in The Firm.

Harry is wound too tight. He is so combative and defensive seems to find evil lurking in places it doesn't exist. He is not helpful. He is probably stressing Meghan out at a time when she really could use support and guidance. I really don't think there is real tension between Kate & Meghan, but probably just a case of both being stressed during the run up to the wedding. Meghan should wise up. Better to be seen as sad and weepy than a demanding diva.

R147 is correct about Anglesley Cottage, although it should be mentioned it has fantastic views in nearly every direction and a secluded beach down the hill which is basically private because it can only be accessed from the Cottage's property.

[quote]As I recall, the Queen gifted Meghan and Harry with some estate on the grounds of Sandringham, didn't she?

As I recall, there was much discussion about the possibility of it happening and then much speculation about why it didn't. A popular theory was that W & K didn't want them nearby.

R148 Yeah getting any thread that touches on Meg shutdown because of 'racism' seems to be their MO. They've already managed to derail the other thread about them that's still open. Pisses me off because racism actually does affect my daily life but whoever this is just using it for their stan war.

One does not question or - Heaven forfend! - criticize Megs. One submits. Silently.

Not silently. She needs to hear the adulation.

You don't seem to get it.

I gave the advice to STOP talking about race and stop the snide thinly veiled racist comments because the owners of this site clearly do not like it and will delete your thread.

I have never FF'd anyone. I actually wanted the threads to remain hence my suggestion to stop with the idiotic bullshit and if you still can't stop then take your frau ass back to tumblr. And before you call me a "sugar" which is something you middle aged fraus like to do to anyone who even mildly tells you to turn the hatred down a notch, take a minute to understand the owners of this site already hates this shit and would prefer you to not be here at all.

Thread carefully and at least TRY to blend in. Most of you are humorless and lack wit so you're already annoying.

Guys what happens with their apartment at KP? I thought they just recently renovated the whole building and W&K got a huge 8(?) bedroom apartment and M&H the apartment next door. Didn't the media make a big deal about it? That they both now live next to each other, both are married and will raise their kids together. Wasn't that the narrative? Who will live there now? I thought it was especially renovated for the young couples. Can't imagine some C or D list royal will move in there now.

[quote]take a minute to understand the owners of this site already hates this shit and would prefer you to not be here at all.

R156 is definitely not a sugar. She's a fascist, dictatorial assumptive cunt sugar!

You heard the intended plans for Apt. 1 nearly correctly. The latest plan is turn the recently renovated 21 room apartment next door to K&W's apartment into offices so that this situation doesn't happen again. The Gloucesters, who were living there, are moving to the renovated former Royal Stables at KP. They wanted to downsize anyway now that their children don't live with them and they are getting older.

Nobody is living in the grace and favour apts at Hampton Court these days.

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If Princess Anne turned her hat around, she'd give Napoleon Bonaparte a run for his money!

William was a man with two small children whose wife was expecting the third at the time of Harry and Meghan’s engagement. Meghan was a woman leaking stories about said wife to the press. Why wouldn’t William roll out red carpet for Meghan? Mind boggles...

Kate is greeted by students in Leicester.

Kate in Leicester. I love her dress. Sombre gray and appropriate for the occasion. The second photo shows off her great legs.

Well Harry is a fucking drama queen and always has been the more emotional one. But the point is, this was a big deal for him. He was really excited, and he expected the whole world (his world anyway) to stop and accommodate his emotional high. He thought William would be in sync and be his #1 ally and he felt William didn't "give" enough.

William OTOH, had a pregnant wife, two kids, and he was struggling with the reality that, he had just moved his family back to London, his grandmother was failing, his father was going to become regent in deed if not name, and he was told he would have to stop playing rescue pilot and start taking on more responsibilities for the RF. His position in the line of succession weighed heavily on him from what I've read.

So while he was happy for Harry, he probably also had some misgivings, after all, this was not the first time Harry was "in love." And the African American actress, and divorced U.S. citizen was certainly a departure from previous candidates. I think Wills tried to be supportive, but had some legitimate reservations. As for Meghan, in the roll out she got great coverage. She, IMO probably started believing her own publicity and her "Specialness."

But she needs to remember. She is popular because the public adores Harry and always has. If she is seen to fuck over him...or by extension her in-laws, William and Catherine, that will not go over well. I think the attempts to separate the courts are the Palace's way of minimizing the damage once the Harry/Meghan thing unravels. William, Catherine, and the kids have to convey stability and tradition, as the heirs. They can't be joined at the hip to Harry and his more "celebrity-oriented" brand. Their roles and their style are in conflict. Both may be necessary for the modern monarchy, but they don't work well hitched to the same carriage.

Meanwhile this is pretty toxic press they're getting. The absolute worse thing is for the media to hype and stress division and the pubic views it along racial lines with some on "team Catherine" and others on Team Meghan" for all the wrong reasons. So it needs to be quashed immediately and if that means Charles sits them down individually and separately and ER2, Betty Windsor gets involved then they better nip it now. Moving to Windsor was a lame move, BTW.

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You forgot one thing, R166.

That first nasty leak of Sparkle's claiming Catherine didn't offer her a ride to go shopping. That happened right after Sparkle moved into Nottingham Cottage with Harry. I don't even think they were engaged at that point.

That was really the first shot at anyone in the Royal Family from MM. And it was petty. And directed at William's wife.

She showed William and anyone else who chose to look what she was like.

Then followed it up with that TV engagement interview and then the hugely expensive and totally inappropriate (and never to be seen again) evening gown for the photos.

When people show you who they are, you should believe them.

Clear to see.

R166 thanks for a well-reasoned post that explains your views without bashing others on this thread. I agree with pretty much all of your observations.

How can an 18 y.o. graduate from Sandhurst? Isn't that awfully young to become a military officer? Queen Rania looks unrecognizable. Another facial filler victim.

Fergie had an office at the WTC and was on her way there on 9/11? Has this been k nown before?

If the rumours about a rift between Meghan and Kate (which they seem to be), I'm team Kate all the way!

[R173]

I would hate to have to choose,i am fond of both.

Team Kate.

Meghan could've been good for the BRF, but she has entirely fucked up and she deserves nothing but derision.

Kate is starting to remind me of the Queen Mum (but with much better teeth) She is content to allow William to be the star of the show, but is [seemingly] becoming a power house behind the scenes.

Narcissists react (overreact) badly and retaliate forever to any perceived offense not matter how minor (Narcissistic Wound/Injury) and will never.let.it.go. If something so minor as Kate not offering a ride happened, she will forever punish and undermine her. That goes for the rest of the family too, any thing that wasn't glowing praise could be construed as an injury to her ego and require never ending punishment, overt and covert. Think of Cheetolini, it's been over a decade since Rosie insulted his hair and he is still ranting and seething and raging about it and will until his dying day.

Had Meghan shown herself a genuine article of feminism and more importantly humanitarianism, she would be lauded for truly changing up the game... but she turned out to be just another greedy grifting grabby celebrity bullshitter spending like she was owed extravagance off the backs of the the working class.

Nutmeg didn't hit the ground running. She hit a brick wall instead with only herself to blame.

People here are crazy.

Lol true R179 and R178. It's no wonder Harry feels the way this biographer claims.

Yes, r141, you smell of old sweat and despair, your parents are tired of supporting your wasted life, you know what to do.

I echo r170 's sentiments. That poster always has great insights.

R172 yes I've heard that story before. I'm assuming it's true., she was in NYC that morning. Am surprised she hasn't exploited it more, actually.

All of this favorable coverage by the DM convinces me that it is reciprocity for the Tiaragate scoop. No doubt it came from the York camp.

Look it was not all Meghan's fault that the pairing of her and Harry as a real couple was electrifying, non-Trumpian news. It was one thing for them to be dating. But when it got serious, and she started to accompany him to social events and other events, then the media frenzy went into overdrive. And there was reaction to it that we might not even be aware of. I have a few friends in London who tell me racism directed towards Meghan was pretty blatant from some in the tabloid press, and Harry being the kind of person he is, it had to send him into nutso territory. And I have no idea whether any of the petty gossip about being invited to go shopping or getting rides or WTF ever is true. I think there is a lot of invention and misinterpretation with malice behind a lot of what we've read. Do I think Meghan needs to dial it back a bit? Absolutely. Both of them do. Harry is ridiculous. You can see how wired he is just looking at photos. he is a wreck dealing with her pregnancy. Over protective, hovering, completely unraveling. Now if William is telling him to "get a grip!" and he is too far out on his limb to come back right now then they might be estranged. It will pass. But I believe Harry has ongoing mental health issues, and William can get very exasperated with him. It's about emotional maturity. I have some family members who have similar problems, but then maybe I'm projecting.

There was no way that Kate could have offered her a ride. Megan wasn’t officially a girl friend and Kate couldn’t be seen with her until it was. That’s how it’s always done. But I agree, the big mistake was spilling it to the press.

I called it in another thread that Megan would have the Clooneys as godparents. She has no family that could ask and they can’t all be from Harry’s side. I’ll be that Mulroney thing is also asked.

All the media coverage of this suggests to me that a) whatever the specifics there is a rift of some nature between the Cambridges and the Sussexes. It makes sense of them withholding their children during the recessional at the wedding. B) Meghan is the origin of much of what is being leaked. C) she doesn’t know how to behave to be a success in her role. D) the Sussex marriage won’t last. Frustrated with her inability to be herself or with paying the price for being herself, Helicopter Harry’s hovering will earn her scorn and contempt. It’s doomed. Probably always was.

R166 i think you took a lot of conjecture liberties with the regency and failing Queen theory but totally agree with “ William, Catherine, and the kids have to convey stability and tradition, as the heirs. They can't be joined at the hip to Harry and his more "celebrity-oriented" brand. “. I wonder if meagain grasps this?

Excellent analysis here, r166 and r188. We'll have to wait and see.

Anybody who truely loves the monarchy isn't wasting time attacking the Duchess of Sussex with frivolous hearsay.

Hi, Meghan!

For crying out loud r190. Puh-lease.

R188, you may be right. I should have said the queen was slowing down and delegating more and more to Charles. "Failing" conveys a lot more than what I meant.

R149 Her Majesty never “gifts” anything.

She does, on occasion, “give”.

Here is the Queen's wedding gift to Meghan and Harry.

How can the Clooneys become godparents to the Sussex baby?

I don't think Amal is even a Christian. And I doubt either of that pair are churchgoers at all.

The role of godparent is not some social role, it is a religious role. It requires certain promises from those chosen.

It's not just someone who has their picture taken at the Christening.

That report is erroneous, R194. Read the language of the story. It never happened.

r127 It is well known that Kate wears half wigs and/or extensions. Her natural hair is thin and flyaway.

I don't think Meghan even knows Amal Clooney. That "mini-break at Lake Como" was disproved. The A list celebrities who reportedly haven't kept in touch - how many truly A listers were there at the wedding? Oprah and the Clooneys.

They're not going to be godparents. Doria isn't coming to London to live. I mean, why? She owns her home, has a partner, seems comfortable, likes her life. Frogmore is not getting some multi-million dollar luxury upgrade because there are no planning permissions for that type of work and they're due to relocate there in February.

Me, I'm more interested in the Mulroney/Markle connection and if a rift really occurred. Watch her wardrobe to see. The jewelry too. When Meghan showed at Charles birthday wearing those Claire's earrings on repeat, I thought "Uh oh, Birks didn't provide!" Jessica is the Birks link.

Very bad photoshop R198. I know it's not yours, but you should recognize it when you see it.

That was photoshopped r199 ? Sorry, I didn't realize. Here's another example

R195 no, they were not given York Cottage.

Can someone please explain how a duke outranks a prince?

A duke does not outrank a prince.

Wait, I think I might be wrong:

Yes, the title Duke is better than Prince (in the UK, at least). Dukedoms are substantive titles, which the holder holds in their own right; the title of prince is a derived title, based on membership of the ruling family (eg in the UK, all grandchildren of a monarch in the male line receive the title Prince). The one exception to this in the UK is the title of Prince of Wales - which is a substantive title in its own right, and outranks all dukes.

Once granted, a peerage cannot be rescinded except by Act of Parliament - whereas the monarch can change the rules for the title Prince just by issuing Letters Patent.

Some other differentiators:

Duke is a title of nobility, and therefore holders are not Commoners

The titles of Prince and Princess are not titles of nobility / peerage, and therefore holders are still Commoners, despite being members of the royal family

As members of the peerage, Dukes historically had a wide range of privileges - membership of the House of Lords, trial by their peers, freedom from arrest for Civil offences, right of access to the monarch, etc (although most of this are now obsolete

The titles of Prince and Princess have never carried any privileges

R204 Prince outranks duke every time. A royal duke outranks a non royal duke every time. The order of precedence goes monarch - spouse of monarch - eldest child of monarch - other children of monarch - grandchildren of monarch - siblings of monarch - then an assortment of uncles, grandsons of uncles etc., THEN the nobility, of which dukes are the top tier. It goes duke - marquess - earl - viscount - baron. The church lords have precedence in there too but slightly off to one side.

All titles arise from the monarch ; the fount of honors. A queen may make a commoner a duke but a duke cannot make a prince a commoner. No one born into royalty is a commoner, commoners who marry royalty assume a subsidiary rank to their spouse.

Clearly being a duke has a higher rank than prince or William, Andrew and Harry wouldn't have taken up a dukedom. But why is Sophie a countess? Is Edward a count? Why?

A Duke does NOT outrank a Prince or Princess. Sophie is a Countess in relation to her husband being an Earl, who will assume the Dukedom of Edinburgh after his father passes. He will then be a ROYAL Duke which supersedes being a titular Duke. That will be all.

Here's the story. Children of the monarch and grandchildren through the male line are princes and princess, as are anyone else the monarch gives the title to (e.g., Prince Philip who, although born a Prince of Greece and Denmark, renounced that title on his marriage to Princess Elizabeth but was later made a Prince of the United Kingdom). A prince may also be made a duke by the monarch, which is the highest title of nobility (ahead of marquess, earl, viscount, and baron). Princes who are made dukes (Philip, Andrew, William, and Harry) or princes who inherit a dukedom (the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent) are considered "royal dukes," although that phrase has no official meaning. It is often done to avoid the awkwardness of a prince's wife being called by her husband's name, e.g., the Duchess of Gloucester used to be called "Princess Richard." Edward, for a reason never explained, opted to take an earldom (and one that had not existed for a millennium), Earl of Wessex, which made his wife Sophie a countess (the female title associated with the male title "earl"). If Harry had not been made Duke of Sussex, Meghan would have been titled "Princess Henry of Wales." An exception to this is the Dukedom of Cornwall, which is not granted by the monarch to the monarch's eldest son but automatically goes to the monarch's eldest son.

[R191]

Hello Princess Micheal ..shouldn't you be somewhere showing off your Blackamoor collections proudly

Can Sophie keep her title once Edward is promoted to D of E? Because Countess of Wessex is way cooler sounding than Duchess of Edinburgh.

WTF, there is too much of them and not enough of me. I'm the only one that matters at this point

The irony does not escape that the link R195 posted as PROOF the Queen favors the Sussexes is FROM FOX NEWS.

^^^Not only that but it’s wrong.

Princess Anne is now in Chile. This hardworking lady sure gets around.

Princess Anne is the best of that entire miserable lot. She's intelligent, works hard, plays hard albeit mostly on horses, and she's funny as hell.

Sly Di supposedly tipped off reporters about her husband's affair with Camilla. Good girl.

If the Queen lives as long as her mother, Charles will need a cane to walk up the aisle of Westminster Abbey at his coronation.

I made it, y'all. It took me my whole life to get here, but I'm here. Poor Charles. He was in diapers when he became the heir and now that he's King, he's back in diapers.

What a smart outfit Anne is wearing. She is lovely.

Who is the British designer Anne is wearing there?

Anne is looking more and more like Her Majesty with each passing year.

Anne - the Queen who should've been.

Princess Eugenie attended a Royal Air Force event. I'm seeing a lot more of Andrew and the York girls lately doing events.

The York's are trying to prove to Charles that the British public cares.

I believe Meghan has hired a PR firm on her own and has had one from the beginning. When you go to Yahoo or MSN there are all of these BS stories praising her. Even when she makes a mistake they proclaim "OMG! We love Meghan because she forgets to cut her dress tags off!" It is really jarring, like even stupid mistakes like that are empowering to all women.

The Yorks, not the York's.

[quote]I believe Meghan has hired a PR firm on her own and has had one from the beginning.

Didn't Meghan and Serena Williams share the same PR agency back when Meghan was on Suits? I've read (probably on DL) that that is how the two met. (I can't recall the name.) I can see that the Duchess maintained a connection with the firm.

R218 I feel like Charles will be crowned King and the die the next day.

After finding a black fly in his new Chardonnay?

The prince of Monaco his marriage is of convenience.

The PR firm is SunshineSachs, r226, and yes, that is their true connection.

R224, it actually is empowering in that women do not have to be perfect . I find most of her mistakes to be endearing.

That's it! Thank you, R230.

I love Anne and her Oakley blades! She really does not GAF! Eugenie looks lovely there and it probably drives Meagan bonkers that Eug has her own social media presence.

R233: The York Sisters will always be Princesses.

I love the old guy in the picture with Eugenie. He looks so pleased to see her, and she him.

It appears that Eugenie is coming into her own. Anne seems great, but I really wish she would change her hairstyle.

What could Anne do with such Brillo pad hair?

R235, did you read the text about Eugenie's appearance.

The "old guy" you remarked on is a one time WWII POW who was in the POW camp later made famous by "The Great Escape".

The only comment I made about Eugenie is that she looks pleased to meet him, R238, (i.e. her demeanor). What do you mean by "appearance?" Why is that so offensive to you? I only stated the obvious. And yes, I do know who he is. I was quite capable of reading her Instagram caption, but thank you for wasting your time to paraphrase it. Would have felt better if I'd repeated what was already there?

What makes you so butt-hurt that you take such an innocuous, if not complimentary, post and twist it into something so negative? Good lord!

R229 - Yes, it is, and everyone knows it. He put it off as long as he could, but the clamour for a direct heir finally made it impossible to put off any longer. His wife's eyes are tragic. I assume she's has one hell of a payoff coming the day she can decently bolt, probably when the kids are safely into their late teens.

The Monegasqes are filthy rich. But they are also only Serene Highnesses - their "royalty" is, shall we say, somewhat tarnished.

R239 I think you took offense where none was intended. I think OP found it interesting and pointed it out.

R210 - Oh, not it ain't, not by a long shot. There's no substitute for that HRH, mate. Sophie will leap at that Duchess of Edinburgh like a frog out of a pot of boiling water. And you know what: she deserves it. She has worked hard, uncomplainingly, and has kept the side up consistently. She deserves that HRH far more than Meghan Markle does.

Bea and Yuge, of course, did nothing to earn their HRHs but get born to the Queen's son. But that's different.

Sophie Wessex has earned that HRH. I hope Edward doesn't turn it down. And I hope he accepts the bump-up for his kids to HRHs, too, which they will be entitled to as grandchildren of the Sovereign in the male line.

*NO it ain't

R242

Wait, so right now Sophie is not an HRH?

Thank you, R241.

You are quite right. It's good to know there are some intelligent, perceptive people still left on DL.

R244 - No - she's the Countess of Wessex. Prince Edward turned down the ducal title that is customarily conferred upon marriage for a male in the direct line. Andrew became Duke of York the day he married, William became Duke of Cambridge, Harry became Duke of Sussex. Edward is still an HRH as he's the son of the Sovereign, and technically, without the ducal title, she could have been known as HRH Princess Edward, like Princess Michael of Kent. Edward chose to be known by his subsidiary title, Earl of Wessex. But that doesn't come with an HRH so Sophie isn't. Nor do their children hold HRH's although they should have been entitled to them at birth. Edward was told he would get his father's title, Duke of Edienburgh, when his father died.

Once that happens, Sophie becomes HRH the Duchess of Edinburgh, and their children, Lady Louis Windsor and Viscount Severn, technically also step up to HRHs.

I think it would be delicious for Meghan Markle and Harry to see Sophie's kids get HRHs while theirs don't.

Damn the fast typing: Duke of Edinburgh, when his father died

And

Lady LouisE Windsor

R246

Harry becomes Duke of York after Andrew kicks it.

R242, Sophie is already an HRH, silly.

Sophie is Her Royal Highness the Countess of Wessex. Page all the way down at her Wiki page under "Titles, styles, honors,...."

Princess Anne's hair is lovely,infact she was once known for her famous blond bouffant....which revolutionized England

R251: Are you drunk?

R249 - Is she really? I thought not. Well, there it is. Then the Edinburgh title won't make as much difference to her as it will to the children. I wonder if Edward will insist the children keep their non-HRH status.

Duke of York usually goes to the second son of the Sovereign. Andrew is 12 years younger than Charles - he's only 58; unless ill-health takes Andrew out early, Charles will die first, making William King, and the York title will be earmarked for Prince Louis, and Harry will remain Duke of Sussex for the rest of his life.

R253: Damn, that’s an excellent point!

Especially since Andrew doesn't have any sons upon whom to pass the title anyway.

The dukedoms always make me laugh. In the past a duke was the warrior in charge, now it’s just a title shambling round from generation to generation.

I wonder if Harry’s baby will be dark olive skin or ginger and white adorable either way.

You have never seen a ginger African American?

R256 - There's a distinction between an ordinary dukedom (Your Grace) and a royal dukedom, which carries the rank of HRH. But both go shambling around from generation to generation - it's called primogeniture.

Hence Carole Middleton's chagrin when Pippa and George Percy, the heir to the (ordinary) dukedom of Northumberland, couldn't make a go of it. Cuan you imagine landing one daughter with the future King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the other with the future Duke of Northumberland?!

But speaking of dukes and battles and the York title: be it remembered that the Duke of York was the highest ranking man to die at the Battle of Agincourt.

It's an old and honourable title, as is Northumberland.

Though, frankly, given a choice, I'd rather be Northumberland's heir than one of those flimsy royal dukedoms like Sussex. It's a much more distinguished family. And Alnwick Castle beats Frogore Cottage ten ways from Sunday.

In Henry V, York begs Henry for the honour of leading the charge. "My Lord, most humbly on my knees I beg the leading of the vanguard." (paraphrasing from memory).

*And Alnwick Castle beats FrogMore Cottage ten ways from Sunday.

R259

What is the significance of Anne's title, Princess Royal?

Sophie, like Edward, is an HRH. When Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh dies, the title is automatically inherited by his eldest son, Prince Charles, the Prince of Wales. When Charles becomes king, the title merges with the Crown. Charles can then create Edward Duke of Edinburgh (of a new creation). Sophie becomes HRH The Duchess of Edinburgh, rather than HRH The Countess of Wessex. The title Duke of York is often, but not always, given to the sovereign's second son. Queen Victoria, for example, gave it her eldest son's second son, Prince George (who later became King George V). After Andrew dies, since his daughters cannot inherit the title, it will be available to the sovereign to bestow as he or she wishes. It is conceivable that Charles, when king, could give it to Harry, but he could just as easily give to Prince George or Prince Louis.

R261 - It's an extra honour that the reigning monarch can confer on the eldest daughter. QEII conferred it on Anne after the entry of Diana and Fergie and the media frenzy that followed them around. It was a way in which the Queen reminded everyone that the arrivistes were only princesses by marriage, and who the real Blood Princess in the group was.

The Princess Royal before Anne was her Great-Aunt, Mary, the only daughter of King George VI and Queen Mary. And, in fact, both Anne and QEII bear a passing resemblance to Princess Mary.

R256 you crystallized it perfectly. These titles are meaningless in today’s world. A woman can’t even inherit them. So why are we propping them up with our tax dollars?

R262 - York was also the title conferred upon the second son of George V and Queen Mary - who became Duke of York upon his marriage to Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, so ti continued the second son tradition.

I cannot imagine that the York title would go to Prince George, who would be in line for Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall when William becomes King. And as these titles are customarily bestowed now upon the marriage day of the sons, it's unlikely Charles will be around by the time George marries, so the Wales/Cornwall titles will be much nearer for George than it seems now. York, I believe, will go to Louis.

R264 - You may well arsk. We've brought that up before, but it's a weighty topic and probably merits its own thread, like BREXIT. The support my benighted fellow citizens still extend to the monarchy never fails to astonish me.

Perhaps it's because the politicians are so much more loathsome - the royals look good by comparison.

I think support for the monarchy (which is different from liking every member of the family) still stands at about 75%. I think Charles knows the difference and that is why he is keen to slim down the monarchy and limit the numbers of HRHs littering the place and being paid by the Sovereign Grant.

Its true though, there are thinly veiled and snide race comments on every Meghan thread. It’s not nice obviously but it also makes everyone else on the thread seem like party to it. Even if they’re just talking about her ill-fitting coat dresses or weird habits like paying with her hair, it’s guilt by association.

[QUOTE] What is the significance of Anne's title, Princess Royal?

Very little. There’s no land associated with it, no peerage, no special precedence. It just marks her as the eldest daughter of the sovereign and it’s hers for life, even after the gifting sovereign is dead.

Harry and Nutmeg's children: what titles will they have and will they be American citizens?

[quote]A woman can’t even inherit them.

Not quite true. There are titles that are inherited through the female line. When Earl Mountbatten of Burma was killed by the IRA, his elder daughter Patricia inherited the title becoming Countess Mountbatten of Burma. Currently, the title is held by her son. If he dies without producing a son, Patricia's sister Pamela will inherit the title.

The Earldom of Errol is also inherited through the female line. When the Earl of Errol was murdered in Kenya, his daughter Diana inherited the title, becoming 23rd Countess of Errol.

R259 thanks for a well thought out post, I’m very aware of primogeniture and history, nice to see someone else have the same interest. My meaning was actually that titles have no meaning in current life. They had a role in the past when the governing structure was feudalism but in more democratic times it’s just silly.

Anne was also awarded the Princess Royal title around the time that she divorced Mark Phillips but before she married Tim Lawrence.

By being entitled Princess Royal she avoided good Ng from “Princess Anne Mrs Mark Phillips” to “Princess Anne Mrs Tim Lawrence” which maybe took the pressure off her second marriage working out. Which, if rumour is true, it hasn’t. They apparently are married in name only but get on quite civilly.

^^^ fucking autocorrect is OOC - should have been “going from” not “good NG”. WTF is “good NG” anyway?

Hmmmm....looking information up rather than just pulling incorrect information out of one's ass isn't really THAT hard.

Learning SO much here and loving it. Carry on!

A summation on Kate vs. Meghan

R259's comment about Pippa not marrying the future Duke of Northumberland reminded me of the wiki entry for the Hugh van Cutsem family. Longtime friend of Prince Charles and who formerly lived at Amer Hall. Four sons: one married a Grosvenor, one married an Astor (and are parents of the memorable Grace, crabby flower girl), one married a Hadden-Paton (sister of the actor on Downton) and last one married a woman whose name wasn't well known but it was a double-barrelled name. So this family appears to have achieved the ultimate in "marrying well".

Pippa married well and better than an earl . Her husband has a lot of money and he ‘s as sportive as she is . And she doesn’t have to live in a golden cage like her sister .

R277, a little random, but I laughed for about a minute re your discription of Grace. Nice treat with my coffee!

They closed the tendrils threads and you all bring that bullshit here! Ugh.

That so called blind item was bullshit made up by Lanie. She was a part of the so called "solid dinner crew", ie inner circle of Meg and she (Laney) didn't get an invite to the wedding. Wonder why? Gee could it have been starting shit between the two duchess before she was even engaged Meg is ruthless when she perceives betrayal or you no longer serve a purpose. Is she a social climber, yes. Is she ruthless yes. Is she the evil that is portrayed here, NO. The same could be said the Middleton Gel.

I actually admire Kate ascent. However, I don't understand Carole's end game prep. She did EVERYTHING to position Kate for the throne, BUT she didn't prepare her to be a queen in the modern world. Kate has to do more than just pop out babies and look appropriate. In addition to the elocution lessons to polish her accent, she should have been taking public speaking tutelage, prepping herself to be competent patron of the arts for ALL strata of British society(she does have an art history degree): art programs for the disadvantaged, getting millennials involved in the arts, promoting undiscovered artists etc... I know she does photography for the kids and became patron for the V&A, but she is capable of sooo much more.

R278 - The Northumberlands aren't exactly short of money, and the match would have given Pippa almost as much social cachet as her sister, but without the fishbowl existence - people don't follow the Percys around the way they do the Windsors. Some things are more valuable than money and Pippa would hardly have been poor. In point of fact, the man she finally settled for is geeky looking and rich but not as rich as people think. I'd put a good deal on Carole M. and Pippa preferring the Northumberland catch to Matthews. Pips did all right, certainly. But capturing William and George Percy would have been a staggering coup for the woman born in a council house whose grandfather was a coal miner.

R278 - Oh, and do remember that George Percy is the future DUKE of Northumerland, not Earl. Pippa would eventually have been Her Grace the Duchess of Northumberland.

That ain't hay, as they say across the Pond.

Do you all really believe Carole Middleton strategically married-off her daughters this way? Show me some proof.

Carole is no-nonsense and pragmatic. She gets along well with the Duke of Edinburgh, for example. She's too busy running her business. She doesn't seek the limelight.

Don't paint her as this machiavellian mother. She ain't.

R280 - It wasn't Carole's job to prepare Kate to be a "queen in the modern world". And Kate's real job was to stabilise William and surround him with the kind of stable warm family she grew up in - her job as consort was actually secondary. And I think you've missed something here - with the third and last child out, Kate is already doing more. Her job isn't to rock boats, change things, etc. Her job is to maintain stability, stand behind William, keep up the middle-class secure family facade that helped the Windsors navigate the modern era: they went from wielding power to wielding the Happy Families fantasy. "Representation" is the job they constructed for themselves when they realised their real jobs had been over for a century or more.

That's why Diana ended up being so destructive, and that's what Kate gets but Meghan doesn't.

Good points r280 and r284. I do believe, per r280, that many people will be more accepting of a modern monarchy if Kate were more active. I think the BRF prefers the mother figure Kate, but the public does not.

^no matter how great Kate is as a mother (which I think we agree she is), there’s a reason the public thinks she and Wills are lazy. In the long run, that does not bode well. They need to work on this, in my opinion, if they want the backing of the public when they assume the throne.

Meghan wants to be queen, I have no doubt in my mind. Some hundred years ago she would have had the Cambridges murdered.

You, know what, r284. You're right! I stand corrected. I'm looking at this from a plebe view, I confess. I still would like to see her transform(as the WORLD will transform around her), but if that is a disrupt to William's confidence, future and the BRF then so be it.

R283 - I don't think Carole's social ambitions are a state secret. That doesn't make her any more Machiavellian than many other mothers in those circles. It is not only middle-class arrivistes who tried for partis (as the French would put it) like the Windsors and Percys. But St. Andrews, whilst a fine university, is also known as a place where people of a certain social class meet mates. The school fees are astronomical, and I believe Carole's very well heeled brother paid the fees for at least Kate as the Middleton's business took off. As some wag put it when William married Kate, "From the pits to the Palace in three generations". (The pits being the coal mines.)

These things have worked differently in Britain for a much longer time than in America. George Percy would have been a far greater catch than James Matthews as things are reckoned here.

As for Harry's and Meghan's children's titles: if the Queen is still alive when they are born, they are not automatically entitled to HRH's. Instead, a boy would take Harry's ducal subsidiary title, Earl of Dumbarton; a girl will be Lady [name] Windsor. The automatic HRHs stop with the grandsons of the Sovereign in the male line; this child will be a great-grandchild, not a grandchild, of the Sovereign.

If Charles is on the throne, they are grandchildren of the Sovereign in the male line, and automatically entitled to HRHs. Harry and Meghan have said they will "refuse" titles so their children can live 'normal" lives. I take that statement with a large bucket of salt.

William's children are in a similar position - great-grandhildren so not automatically HRHs. The Queen conferred HRHs on them for obvious reasons: their father is going to be King one day. But she is under no such pressure where Harry's children are concerned, and with the prevailing idea that the monarchy has to be slimmed down, she may just let Harry's kids make do with their subsidiary titles.

And Charles can if he wishes issue Letters Patent withholding HRHs from Harry's children, as well.

The Sussexes may already have been told that the Queen is not planning to make their children HRHs as she did Wiliam's - hence their asserting they don't want titles for their children. Getting in front of the story, so to speak, just the way they're asserting that they don't want their children living in the goldfish bowl of Kensington Palace as they're fobbed off with that second rate home base, Frogmore Cottage.

I do think there is a racist undertone to the media coverage of Meg. The irony is Meg transformed her life from biracial to PRACTICALLY ALL WHITE ADJACENT. She has no black people in her life other than her mother. I think this so called 'friendship' with Serena is just that, so called. She likes to take advantage of white privilege and that missive to the press from Harry was a pre-emptive shot that merely wounded the bear(the press) and served to inflamed the rage. Most of the crazy racist hate directed toward her is from whites! As hard as she has tried to distance herself from anything black(other than her mother) and as whitewashed as she has constructed her life, in the end most whites don't claim her.

OAN, Many black women claim her as their 'queen' when the reality is she would probably change her seat on a plane, if seated next to one of them. She has no black 'friends' who aren't celebrities! I don't think she has had any meaningful interactions with black people(other than her mom) since her grandmother died and she eventually and permanently cut off that part of her family.

R286 - They are stepping up - and I think the Queen was keen to have them enjoy their young family as long as possible. She had to take over as Queen when her first two children were quite small and they suffered for it. William and Kate I believe had the full backing of the Queen in focusing on their home life while Kate was having them. But with the birth of Louis and the chess pieces clearly on the move behind the scenes as Charles turns 70, it's quite clear that they are doing more. You're not keeping up with their events. I think the Queen was fully behind their decision to establish and focus on their family lives first.

Any time race crawls into these threads, shit goes down. From greyed out to snuffed out. Can we keep that kind of discussion to the latest version of DT which is apparently the threads with "Gurl" in the title? The first started out strong, but now they are going down fast. Just a suggestion. I love how concise and informative these BRF threads are. Hopefully we can keep them that way.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I am convinced that William and Kate will have at least one more baby and apparently genetically in terms of the Spencers and the Middletons there is not an insignificant chance they could have twins.

R294 - I'm not convinced - I'll agree that under other circumstances, Kate might go for four; she clearly loves being a mother and God knows she has enough money to have enough help to make it as comfortable as possible. But I think it's clear that with the Queen's age, Charles's age, their end of time as the Cambridges is looming closer all the time, and a fourth pregnancy and baby will cut into the necessity for them to raise their public profile and start filling out those larger roles, as it were. Kate will be 37 in January, her last child is only seven months old, and the clock is ticking on the reigns of the Queen AND Charles.

So whatever she might want privately, I think their stepped up schedules as Kate emerges from her last maternity is an indication that they understand where they are now, and that more children are just not part of that scenario.

r294 I said it way up thread either here or in Part 5 that I have a very strong hunch she's going to go for 4, if she isn't already "planted". I heard she said something recently to the fact she wasn't ruling it out. Twins? That might be a bit much, but who knows? I do know she gets less...awkward... with each kid. She really did come into her own with Louis, and I had the bar set VERY low for her. But a well deserved well done to her. While it may slightly kill me for saying it, as I and a few others on here have observed the revisionist history on Lazy, perhaps MM is the kick in the ass she needed. So far, so good.

You may be right [R295] but I suspect it is not as cut and dry as you suspect it is . I think for the medium term there is enough wriggle room to maneourve for a fourth child to be possible .I think some senior royals will be sold on the desirability of it in terms of securing the long term future for the royal family and is a bit of an extra cushion if things go badly wrong with Meghan and Harry as the rumours are not good and if true do not point to Meghans longevity as a royal.

Word is anyway William is keen for another child and not that it proves anything but one of Kates Uncles once tweeted after Charlotte he reckoned they would have a few more as they love parenthood so much.

[R296] I also suspect that Meghans popularity will be very ethereal and short term. Long term the nations affection is with William and Kate. When Fergie first married into the royal family she was more popular than Princess Diana for a number of years but that then changed.

R297 - The fate of the Sussex marriage has no bearing on the succession whatsoever. They could be divorced next year or celebrate a Silver Wedding Anniversary, the long game and the succession go to William, George, Charlotte and Louis. That is plenty of cushion. Harry is no longer the "spare" - Charlotte and Louis are. Harry is already sixth in line - another Cambridge baby would simply make him seventh - it's not much of a difference.

And William was unwary enough to mention family limitation to two children because of overpopulation just as it emerged Kate was pregnant again. It was an embarrassing moment. No, I don't think they'll go for four - the optics will go from charming to suspicious.

So we will have to agree to disagree here.

I just hope the Cambridge's have finally been ordered to stop taking family flights. I STILL don't get how that was ever allowed.

R298 - I more or less agree. I think Harry's popularity is something of a flashback and his wife's rapid blotting of her copybook will dent his popularity as William and Kate, as they are doing, step it up.

I don't the nation's affection for Charles, or William and Kate, will ever match that of the Queen's, or that of King George VI and Queen Elizabeth's, or King George V and Queen Mary. Those days are gone, but I suspect Kate and William know that their task now is to come as close to that as possible.

I think Meghan Markle assumed far too much, too soon. The pair have been virtually invisible since Meghan ventured out to meet her Hubb Kitchen friends and the news about Frogmore Cottage came out. I think Remembrance Day was a major embarrassment for Meghan and so is the virtual exile from London to Frogmore Cottage.

As I said once before, everything in these circle is transmitted in code. And the recent optics and Frogmore and silence and retreat of the couple since returning from their tour suggest they've been ripped a new one from on high, and told to back off, dial it back, and lower the temperature.

R300 Scared are ya? Well fasten your seatbelt; you're in for a bumpy ride.

R300 - Diana first broke that rule on her first tour Down Under after William was born.

However, you will notice that Charles and William never fly together, and I suspect as George gets a bit older, Kate and George will fly in one plane and William in another.

However upthread was salivating over gorgeous British homes, according to the Daily Mail today, Devizes Castle, in Wilsthire, a gift from Henry VIII, and alleged to be "the most beautiful in Christendom", just went on sale. Price: a mere 2.5 million quid. Actually, after a look at the photos, that seems a quite modest sum.

It's the upkeep that will cost you.

And, according to the DM, Harry will be attending the Meat Loaf gala benefit concert Bat Out of Hell for the Invictus Games, but "a pregnant Meghan Markle will not be joining him".

Meghan Markle is barely five months pregnant. Kate in her second trimester emerged and began doing her usual schedule of events.

Meghan is, in my opinion, is either hiding or throwing in the towel already. They've done next to nothing since mid-November and it's now 1 December.

This smells.

[R301] Who do you suspect is the most irated and hacked with them ?The Queen or Prince Charles?

Maybe she just doesn't care for Meat Loaf?

[R299] I don't neccesarily mean in terms of the succession per se but in the direction that Prince Charles wishes to move the royal family. Slimmed down and mainly just his descendents and their spouses doing royal duties .That is a lot to share and in a very crude logic sense the more offspring William has the more people there will be to share the load in the future. Spread the load too heavily on a few people and it could all go wrong if it becomes too much for the individuals .That's why I feel William having more children is desirable and likely .

Just my thoughts

Gentle reminder. You don't need to manually add the brackets. The program does it for you. Just type the letter r with the reply number right next to it, no space. Like how I type r305 Not a slam against you at all, doll, just using it as an example.

*WHOoever upthread was salivating

R301 - I would only be guessing, but as they say, the fish rots from the head down. I subscribe to the truth of Tiara Gate, which would have angered the Queen considerably, and likely both the Queen and Charles were pissed off at Meghan's petty spite at the wedding of the Queen's granddaughter, the child of her rumoured favourite son. The reports of abuse toward staff and the pointed press release praising Meghan's P.A. would have more than angered both: it would have alarmed them.

I think it's a split decision and doesn't much matter. Well, I will say that the Queen is notoriously generous, mild-mannered, easy to get along with, and loathe to interfere in her relatives private lives. For her to get angry enough to send signals like the optics on Remembrance Day and Frogmore Cottage, the situation is by their reckoning, dire.

Memoirs of those on the Privy Council during the Margaret-Townsend affair reported that the only time they saw the Queen lose control of herself was when that topic arose. The idea of telling her much loved sister whom she could and could not marry was anathema. She has maintained that stance ever since, although she had reservations about Diana and probably about Meghan Markle.

Make of that what you will.

Thanks r308

r309 I find it intriguing and nice that the Queen seemingly did not have reservations about Sarah Ferguson and by all accounts seems to generally view her favourably and as a good egg.

R309 Along with her husband, HM left most of the family issues that needed to be sorted to the Grey Men. She is a known ostrich, bless her.

Both the Queen and Princess Anne liked Sarah Ferguson very much at first. Anne despised Diana. Does anyone else remember when it emerged that Anne was disgusted with Diana's antics, and called her "that ridiculous woman", and shortly after, the two were pointedly photographed leaving some service side by side smiling and chatting together? It was so clearly a pre-arranged optic to offset the truth.

You may expect something similar in the near future as Kate and Meghan appear outside Sandringham at Christmas, walking next to each other and smiling and chatting.

I think Sarah Ferguson was just not cut out for royal life. She had low inhibition controls and strong ones are an absolute necessity for royals these days. But she's probably charming and lots of fun to hang out with.

r313 I remember after Diana died Princess Anne erupting on a british journalist who said to her the late Diana was the first royal to highlight the issue of HIV and AIDS and was thus a kind of humanitarian trailblazer because Anne herself had been highlighting the issue for years but without the media fanfare .She particularly highlighted it in relation to HIV prevention in poor parts of the world.

R313 - Well - that's a good lesson on how shallow the media is. Diana was young and beautiful and charismatic, and Anne never was. Diana's photo ops sold magazines and papers, Anne didn't. Diana knew how to manipulate the press, Anne even if she knew would have felt it beneath her to bother.

I suspect Anne feels similarly toward Meghan Markle - Anne loathes grandstanding and can probably spot a like model at 100 metres.

Any young girl looking at these two models would have chosen Diana in a heartbeat . . . they didn't call it a "fairy tale" for nothing. And yet, who has lived the fuller, happier, and less fraught life?

That's a good point r314 but then you have to ask if Anne did (and continues to do) all this humanitarian work yet gets no credit for it, what is she accomplishing exactly. Is the royal visit important to publicize the charity or is it to reward the workers for their efforts?

But wasn't the difference that Diana touched and hugged people and treated them like human beings deserving of love and respect?

What did icy Anne, the original ice princess, hug besides a horse?

Sorry, not buying Anne's retro rehabilitation.

Does anyone find it curious that the daily mail is falling over themselves to spit out Megan/Kate stories this week? It really seems like overkill.

R318 The DM is a business. Controversy sells far better than Parliamentary shenanigans and Labour Party bigotry.

I agree r319 but this week seemed out of control. I was wondering who pissed off who here. Need a flow chart.

R289 Her father's family was decidedly not pits though .

George was always going to be HRH Prince XY of Cambridge , he's the oldest son of the oldest son of the Prince of Wales . It's Charlotte and Louis who would have to wait for their grandfather to become King to get their title upgrade . The Queen only changed the rules for Charlotte and Louis , that all kids of the oldest son of the Prince of Wales would be Prince/ss

DM is def going after Meghan. I don't for one min believe Tiara Gate. Meg's style has always been simple. I believe HER idol was Carolyn B. Kennedy. If you look at pre-Harry pics of her style, she seriously bites the Bessette style. Even the simplicity of her wedding gown channeled Carolyn. So, that being said, some gaudy tiara is DEF NOT MEG'S STYLE. I believe that was a plant by the Yorks and or their courtiers over anger at the House of Sussex kicking the Yorks even further into the background.

I would not be surprised if there was some tension between the brothers and their wives. However, I think it has been exaggerated. Just think, normal people have a period of adjustment in most in-law relationships and being on the world stage only magnifies (with the help of rapacious press) what happens in most families when new members marry in.

If DO think Andy and Fergie could do with less of Meg. I think the rest of the family are taking it in stride one step, or misstep at a time, including the Queen. I don't think the queen would have taken Meg on a road trip so soon after the marriage if she did not want to convey her approval of Meg and the union. As a poster upthread said, optics are everything with the RBF.

[QUOTE] the memorable Grace, crabby flower girl

Tard face

Here is how you know TiaraGate did in fact happen: All legitimate news sources printed it. The Times of London confirmed its veracity. And most telling, the Palace did NOT and never will refute the story. To dismiss the scandal as fiction is projection of someone's wished for fantasy.

[QUOTE] ] I find it intriguing and nice that the Queen seemingly did not have reservations about Sarah Ferguson and by all accounts seems to generally view her favourably and as a good egg.

They share a lot of the same interests. Fergie has always aspired for the champagne lifestyle like a Grimaldi for some reason, but the truth is she’s from the country Gentry and was raised among horses and dogs and polo and picnics in the back of Range Rovers and muddy boots and all that shit that the Windsors like. Fergie is also a bit (ok, a lot) of a Becky Sharp and even though The Queen is a shrewd cookie, Fergie must know how to work her. Philip is immune to it so he won’t tolerate her presence.

If, as R322 likes to pretend, the Queen approves of Meghan, where are the signs (any?), where are the optics of support for Meghan now when her press is the most negative it's ever been? All the signals indicate Meghan is being shunted, and this has been done with the tacit knowledge if not by direct order of HM.

R324 is right. The fact that The Times and The Guardian BOTH reported it in addition to all the other publications nails it. The Times doesn’t run a story without solid sources.

Did I miss something? What happened on Remembrance Day?

Given the Queen's affection for the late Queen of Tonga and that it was only to Tonga that the Queen sent a special message at the time of the Sussex visit Down Under, I would guess that Sparkle's half hearted curtsy to the Queen of Tonga would have made Queen Elizabeth very upset.

Add that to the the ridiculous leaving after only 5 minutes from the Fiji open market after women and children had been waiting for 3 hours in the sun to meet Sparkle, - another insulting picture being presented to the Commonwealth nations.

Especially from the wife of the man who was recently appointed to be the - what was it - Commonwealth Youth Minister???

These actions would not have been acceptable to the Queen.

Betting you dollars to donuts Meghan is keeping her head down with a lower profile because she is lobbying heavily behind the scenes for a photo op with Michelle Obama who will be in town next week with a speaking engagement on the 3rd. If we see any meet&greet publicity it will be a sign of a slight thaw toward Meghan by the BRF--but she will definitely be on probation.

And if none it means she is still in the frog house, I mean dog house.

Why did The Queen make that ballyhooed appearance with Meghan though? Wouldn’t ‘L'affaire du Diadème’ have put a rotten taste in her mouth? Wouldn’t Meghan have fallen out of favour, as they used to say? The Queen looked rather warm to her, and her body language is pretty easy to read. Just look how she behaves around Trump versus Obama.

Anyway, I don’t think Eugenie’s emerald tiara would have suited Meghan, I think plain white diamonds were the best choice. Also, the diamond tiara was actually worn by Queen Mary. No one in the family ever wore the emerald tiara, which was bequeathed by a brewer’s daughter.

Does the BRF ever confirm or denies these planted stories? These stories whose origins were deemed to be from "legitimate" sources, I believe to be from the Yorks or someone from their court. The sources may be legit, but the story they planted is not necessarily legit/

Didn’t they come out and deny the Prince Andrew/Epstein underage sex thing?

I imagine the Queen made the early appearance with MeMeghan to document the family's willingness to accept her and to counter any poo MeMeghan tries to fling at them in the future when it all falls apart. It was preemptive. They had already witnessed TiaraGate and CharlottesGoingToRuinMyWeddingGate and who knows what else.

R333 here’s a summary in The Independent

Now, I ain't one to gossip, so you ain't heard this from ME!

Where is this warmth you are asserting the Queen displayed toward Meghan? She was polite and cordial sure but in the pictures of the Queen smiling it is never in the direction of Meghan's person. If you watch the videos she smiles politely and ever so briefly in response to whatever Meghan was babbling behind a cupped hand, but her HM's broad smiles were directed at the presenters and performers before her. In fact, HM almost looked annoyed that Meghan wasn't paying attention to their hosts.

I should have clarified, R338 is in reference to Meghan's one and only joint appearance with the Queen in Cheshire.

I read somewhere that George can fly with both his parents until he turns 12. After that, he and William have to take separate planes.

Thanks R336. I don’t know whether to trust that article though because the sources and metrics they frequently site are comments in their own columns. I also spotted a typo, which always makes me loose faith in a story. I was hoping for more detail on tiaragate.

Meghan: "What are you wearing?"

Kate: "Oh, just a casual pair of pants and a collar shirt or simple blouse."

Meghan: "WOW. What happened to your plan to go casual?"

Kate: "I was dressed, but Charlotte spilled something on me so I just grabbed this old thing."

Meghan: "Hmmmmm"

I prefer The Duchess of Kent at Wimbledon. Now THERE is a lovely woman.

If Sparkle wanted to know how Kate would dress for Wimbledon, an easy internet search would have given her plenty of pictures.

R341 you spotted a typo which makes you “loose” faith in the article?

I believe Mein Kampf contained perfect spelling throughout, doesn’t mean it’s a good book.

R344 do you really think Me is able to google noone but herself?

Her search history consist of a single word:

Me

R345 = Team Kate

R317 - I think you're mistaking classic British royal reserve for iciness. And never forget that whilst Diana was hugging everyone she was well aware the cameras were lapping it up. Meanwhile, Anne does the work for the work's sake - she's old school and believes this is her devoir, so to speak: what she owes for her privileges. Because someone doesn't grandstand doesn't make them necessarily unfeeling or ineffective at bringing in funds. Anne has worked tirelessly, as have the Gloucester and Sophie Wessex, but with only a fraction of the frenzy that Diana generated and that Meghan Markle thinks she can generate.

If you ask any of Anne's patronages, especially Save the Children, about her work for them, you'll hear nothing but praise for her patronage. She's brisk, efficient, and dedicated - the question is, are the children she worked for just as well off as the ones Diana worked for.

Diana always fancied herself onstage. She always wanted a larger framework - that doesn't mean the kids she hugged for a few minutes for the cameras weren't served long-range as well as the ones Anne worked for. That performance she gave onstage at Covent Garden to Uptown Girl with Wayne Sleep - that was pure Diana, the real Diana. It was also totally inappropriate for a Princess of Wales, regardless of the fact that it was a charity benefit. She and Meghan are sisters under the skin - they crave attention.

I rather admire Anne for her refusal to play the camera game. Perhaps it's an English thing.

R335, please explain CharlottesGoingToRuinMyWedding.

R332 - The joint appearance was the Queen's gesture of acceptance. She did one with Kate, as well, one year after W&K married. It's a standard thing and was, as another poster pointed out, meant to display the family's acceptance. It was , as you can see, a one-time gesture. And Meghan, typically, pretended she didn't understand the message delivered by LIW or equerry, that HM would be wearing a hat (cue the clued-in: you should be wearing a hat, too). Instead, Meghan not only didn't wear a hat, but wore her hair completely long and messy - Llaha Apso style. The Queen is far too disciplined and well mannered to have let her opinion of this show, but it's likely she translated it as more evidence of Meghan's self-will.

If you google photos of Kate's first outing solo with the Queen, you'll see something quite different; a relaxed but beautifully dressed young duchess in an appropriate day suit and hat over the long hair, and both women smiling and laughing together.

Meghan just kept getting it wrong from the beginning.

R348, there's gossip Meggers made Kate cry only a few days after Louis was born by throwing a tantrum due to Charlotte being a bit figdety at a fitting for the children's wedding wardrobe.

Princess Anne was mad at Diana for the godparent issue.Princess Diana forbid Prince Charles from name Princess Anne a godparent.....she thought her to harsh with the boys.Queen Mum begged Prince Charles to reconsider but he didn't

I feel like he agreed with Diana's assessment ,just didn't have the backbone to tell his sister.Who from that point on hated Princess Diana

Where did you read this, R352? I've never heard that one.

R353 Nor I. Princess Anne has at least half a dozen godchildren, one of whom is Crown Prince Haakon of Norway, and none of whom are her nieces and nephers. For the most part, the BRF avoid family as godparents. Anne isn't a godmother to any of Andrew's or Sophie's children, either.

I call b.s. on this.

Diana and Marie-Christine did not get on well. Marie-Christine, as a scion of the princely Houses of the former Holy Roman Empire, multi-lingual, and would-be authoress, felt that Diana was low rank and terribly unsophisticated. Diana on her part, was frequently annoyed by Princess Michael’s prized cats, who roamed free on the Kensington property.

[quote] [R348], there's gossip Meggers made Kate cry only a few days after Louis was born by throwing a tantrum due to Charlotte being a bit figdety at a fitting for the children's wedding wardrobe.

The other bits of this story are that

(1) Sparkle said something like "That kid is going to ruin my wedding"

(2) It was Charlotte who told William about this, even before Kate did.

If this story is true, that means that Sparkle has even pissed off Charlotte. Don't kid yourself. Kids remember things like this.

I've told this story before, but it is appropriate:...

I once was having a conversation with an older cousin of mine (we were related through our mothers) , age 60-70, and asked him about his paternal grandmother. He coldly responded "She made my mother cry.". This was probably 40-50 years after his grandmother had died. And he still remembered the event of childhood and who it was who made his mother cry. And his anger about it remained.

Kids have long memories and if they love their mothers, would not forget someone who made them cry. Particularly if the person who did it was angry at said kid's fidgeting.

[QUOTE] it was Charlotte who told William about this, even before Kate did.

Nobody like a tattle-tale, Char.

I do like Charlotte - particularly if she really told William about Meggie having been rude to her.

If THiS particular story is true, it's getting pretty clear all of a sudden why Camilla sort of made sure Meh-gan wouln't get to touch Charlotte in Charles' birthday family pictures.

It doesn't matter if you marry in, which one is your sibling/parent/in-law, or who generates the most sensational headlines. At the end of the day, these 4 are the only ones who really count, period.

Awwww, that cute, mischievous grin on George's face!

I'd love to pinch his cheeks and smother him with kisses and candy.

R185 it is not racism to point out that Meghan is an uppity cunt that is your typical celebrity narcissist.

[QUOTE] uppity

And there we have it.

R363 - The word "uppity" is not the exclusive property of racists; it would have applied equally to a white D-List 37 year old brash divorced American actress thinking she has the right to demand a particular tiara from the Queen of Great Britain and Northern Ireland because it completed her "look" as she marries the sixth in line.

In fact, the racism cart is sometimes (I won't say all the time) before the horse where Meghan and Harry are concerned: had Megan been white rather than mixed race, the women gushing over her who defend every questionable sartorial choice she makes would have skewered her to the wall a long time ago.

And I have heard quite classist remarks made about, for example, Mary Donaldson, the Australian who married Crown Prince Frederik of Denmark and who is on track to become the first Australian ever to be Queen Consort of a European country. "That jumped up bogan" was the term, if I remember.

I do acknowledge the history of the word, but the fact is, Meghan has behaved in a way that invites the term: not because of her colour, but because of her utter disregard for the nature of the hierarchy she thought she could join whilst snubbing the very structure that gives her her current privileges.

With the reality of her husband's cash wealth (over-estimated) and her in-laws' power (underestimated - for example, they can determine where and how she is going to live), I rather think the former Suitcase Girl has got her fingers rapidly burnt.

You can phrase it more politely - but the fact is, Meghan Markle has behaved as if she owns the place, only to find out that as she is now totally dependent upon it for the very framework of her life - it owns her.

You can call it "overconfident" or just plain rude or any other polite term, but it comes to the same thing.

[QUOTE] revisionist history on Lazy,

Thankfully someone besides me is saying this out loud

R347 I’m not team anyone. You made a point that you didn’t trust the content of an article to be true because there was a typo and in that same sentence you used “loose” instead of “lose”. You’re ridiculous, just calm down.

If was autocorrect, you twat.

And yet you STILL don’t understand the irony...

Fuck off Kate lover

R352 don’t make stuff up.

Charles was mad Princess Anne married first. He said it put pressure on him to find a suitable mate.The Godparent story was from the Queen Mum's lips......Prince Charles felt the Firm needed him married,and Princess Anne's wedding didn't help that.

And you *still* don’t know or understand why you’re so ridiculous r369.

Not a Kate lover. Don’t think royals are anything special or should be kowtowed to, I just think you’re incredibly stupid for trying to undermine an article in a respected publication because it contained a typo when you yourself have littered your posts with typos. Does that mean we can’t believe a word you say?

r371 Anne married Mark *seven* years before Charles and Diana. Was she supposed to wait around until he was good and ready? That's ridiculous. There were no restrictions on Anne getting married first, ahead of Charles.

The Queen and Prince Philip were thrilled when Peter Philips was born a few years later. Really happy to be grandparents. Imagine if they had to wait another several years for that.

r355 the funniest story of Marie-Christine and Diana living side-by-side at KP was about cats. M-C was upset at some feral cats roaming the grounds, that were bothering her prized personal felines. She set up feral cat traps in the courtyard to catch these.

Diana found this cruel, and seeing an opportunity to tweak M-C would go out with her boys and would release the ferals from the cages, replacing them with....stuffed aniimal cats. When M-C found this she would shriek with irritation, she knew it was probably Di but couldn't very well do anything about it. Diana and the boys found it hilarious.

Anne married her first husband on Chuck's birthday. That's kind of fucked.

Well, at least Meghan’s doesn’t have a retired Nazi officer for a father unlike your beloved Mary and Maxima, you gotta give her that.

WTF?

My father wasn't a Nazi officer, does that make me duchess material?

[R373]

Not according to Prince Charles ,he felt it put enormous pressure on him

An that Anne was trying to one up him,as she had always done, especially for Prince Phillip

Why am I not the center point of this thread? I'm too cute for words

R380 You come across as a creep, no offence.

R386 Crown Princess Mary’s father is a non-retired Professor of Mathematics, not a retired Nazi officer.

What drugs are you on?

The stupidity on these threads beggars belief.

Princess Michael of Kent's father is the Nazi. Maxima's father was part of the Videla junta responsible for the desaparecidos, up to 30,000 political opponents who were disappeared by Vedela and his junta.

R383 Pope Francis was also supportive of the torture and murder of Argentinos.

R384 And the help and assistance by Pope Pius XII and the Catholic Church to Nazi butchers escaping from Europe aka The Rat Lines is also well-known.

Diana endured extensive training from the Queen Mother re royal protocol. Everything from table manners to proper public comportment at home and abroad. And Diana grew up around the royals so she was no stranger to their ways

Has any such training been offered to MM? Early on the Press printed that Harry had declared he would help her to understand her new environment. Dear god.

I feel for her constant faux pas. She's over her head and the Ginger Twit is of no help. .

PLus cunty staff love this kind of thing. They'll undermine the American (her biggest crime - not race) while reporting every perceived misstep to the tabs

Her constant faux pas are more a result of her headstrong, mulish, unkind behavior as opposed to a lack of training.

^^^Agree.

Totally agree with R386. If there is one thing upper class brits- the Colonialists of Old- hate more than a non-white person is a "dynamic", pushy American. With MM's personality, even if she looked like Charlize Theron, the claws would come out. She's too reminiscent of Mrs Simpson for them not to jump in. If anything, I think her race might make them hold back a little. Even places like Celebitchy would be jumping into the feeding frenzy if MM wasn't biracial.

The Queen was reported to have said directly after her first meeting with Princess Grace of Monaco "She's quite nice, isn't she? For an American."

Yes, the anti-American sentiment is strong amongst this lot.

Don't try telling that to this asshole:

It's not a matter of being "too American" or "offensive", Megs is simply unworldly and ignorant. Which manifests as demanding and awkward, because she's trying to make her incomprehensible, foreign environment comprehensible rather than look, listen and learn to adapt to her new environment, as any intelligent adult would do.

The above was posted in the Part III Harry Gurl thread.

The chaos and disruption of the Diana years are still fresh in many minds. I'm sure many in the Royal family look at Megs and think oh no, here we go again.

Protocal training?For an actress.....laughs Megs would be hated no manner what she did. Alot of brit ladies are mad she stole their ginger Prince from them.As if Prince Harry would have ever choose them to begin with.So the jealous girlfriend syndrome will always follow Meghan, claws out....ever ready to criticize whatever she does.Its weird and probably to some degree expected.Maybe that's why Duchess of Cambridge praised Meghan specifically to the press. She apparently is tired of you lots belly aching lies too.

I think something must be going on with Harry for the BRF to have caved in so easily. This is less MM's fault and more on Harry- HE is the one who should have known how everything works in the BRF. It's a little cruel on his part to have thrown MM in the deep end. There's a reason why Wills waited 10 years- commitment phobia or no commitment phobia

R393- Not trying to be sarcastic but please dont kid yourself. Harry seems petulant and dim, I doubt anyone outside of Tumblr wants him that bad. Even in the UK it's mostly a sympathy driven popularity as most oldfraus think of him as a 12 year old who lost his mum. Say what you will- atleast Megs and Kate come across as adults in all of this.

[quote] Alot of brit ladies are mad she stole their ginger Prince from them

Stole? From whom? No one wanted him. Except perhaps some estate chav.

[R396]

Estate chav....i choked on my bickies,laughs too loudly

You lot are hilarious

R386 - The Queen Mother did nothing of the kind, that is myth. And Diana grew up in a grand household on the Sandringham estate, her grandmother was a Woman of the Bedchamber to the Queen Mum, her father had been an equerry in the royal househood - you think this girl needed help knowing which fork to use??!!!

As it happens, the Queen assigned Lady Susan Hussey to coach Diana in protocol, and Charles's private secretary Edward Adeane was also assigned to help under with the constitutional stuff. Diana wasn't interested in anything either one had to say. She didn't like being told what to do, she felt her "instincts" would tell her everything she needed to know, and she could already tell she had a certain "gift" with the commons and the media. Both of the people assigned to help her gave up fairly quickly. The Lady in Waiting they gave her, the notably dumpy and unattractive Lady Anne Beckwith-Smith, was perhaps more helpful to her.

Mentors were also assigned to Meghan Markle. Like her predecessors, Ms Cohen wasn't terribly successful.

It's the stuff of great literature how alike these two seemingly unlike women were under the skin.

R394 - Well, there's something in what you say - I think you are correct that he should have known better -where we differ is that I think he DID know, and Meghan's appearance in his life gave him a chance to fulfill several fantasies: getting a woman like his Mum (i.e., a classic larger than life NPD persona who sucks all the air out of the room), and stick it to the institution he probably still resent for how he believed it treated his Mum.

The whole thing strikes me as the typically passive-aggressive action of someone who never acquired the skill or even vocabulary to get past his personal demons.

I suspect the BRF in some way still feels guilty about Diana, and dimly understands Harry's actions, and that's why they couldn't bring themselves to tell him to take the famewhore grifter back to America and live a nice quiet life there with her. (Of course, she would instantly have broken the engagement, nobly claiming she couldn't bear to be the cause of him losing his patrimony.)

You couldn't make it up. It's like watching Euripides.

The DM has two fresh new ‘Megan is a bitch’ articles today. Apparently she got mouthy with a member of Kate’s staff and Kate had to reprimand her. The other is that the bride to be found St. George’s Chapel a bit musty, and wanted air fresheners used, and the response was ‘if it’s been good enough for ruling monarchs to worship there since 1475, it should be good enough for her’. They also referred to her as ‘dictorial’. Lol! The knives are out for Megan!!!!

R399 I’d doubt the RF feels guilty in any way, they did nothing wrong. She had mental issues from childhood and died while being driven by the drunk druggie chauffeur provided by her cokehead boyfriend’s shady-as-fuck sex pest father. The French paps chasing them weren’t there because she was so shy and retiring and never sought publicity. She used the media with expert manipulation.

NOBODY believes that lie, r396 - not even YOU!!

You don't have to like or be supportive of MM, but the level of vitriol and leaping at ANY opportunity for derision proves you lot to be the equivalent of Cinderella's Ugly Stepsisters. Enjoy the bitterness of your sour wine -I have an old bottle of Tig in the cellar should you run out.

I believe it r402 so your first claim is proven wrong right there. She’s a badly dressed, grasping fame whore. People see right through her. He is an idiot man-child who fucked up relationships over and over, nobody he wanted wanted him.

Relax R402, every woman marrying into that wretched family has to go through this initiation-by-fire. Camilla had bread rolls thrown at her by angry public after Di's death (no doubt manipulated by the press) while buying groceries so MM is not special. She will need to find her way and she sure as hell doesnt need White Knights on the internet defending her honour. She knew what she was getting into when she married into that elitist, lazy, entitled, racist family. Waity faced it too. Try to calm down and not scream bloody murder. And that Tig stuff is ridiculous and beneath you

I found the "Tig stuff"rather comical......smh

Carole Middleton is looking good for her age.

The Telegraph's interview with Carole Middleton is interesting in its sudden appearance amdist all the negative Markle PR, don't you all think?

The Telegraph has been virulently pro-Meghan until perhaps two weeks ago. Suddenly, they're running a rather nice interview with Kate's Mum (I must say, Carol comes off well) - the unspoken contrast between the two families, one warm, close, stable, mutually supportive, and highly successful - the other, well, NOT.

So this interview drops amidst an onslaught of negative stories about Meghan (and please, nobody tell me this onslaught is comparable to the Waity Katy, WillNot and Kannot stories) - almost as if the Telegraph also knows that something has changed and they've backed the wrong mare.

Anyone else think so?

Photos of The Queen with the Bushes over the years.

The Queen and her sister Princess Margaret as young women.

Who was prettier you think between Maggie and Lilibet? Some times I undoubtedly think it was Margaret but other times her face looks oddly proportioned and off kilter. The Queen always looked pretty in a toothy, thick eyebrow-ed kinda way

The girls' beauty lay in their colourting and exquisite complexions, rather than some special arrangement of features. Margaret was closer to classically pretty than her sister, but she lost that quickly after the Townsend affair - it was almost as if something hardened inside her and her face lost its softness.

Both were petite, Margaret more strikingly so, but neither had the charisma of their mother, from whom they got the dark hair, creamy skin, and blue eyes, a very Celtic look. And both from unanimous reports, were much prettier in person than in photographs, as was the case with their mother.

But Lilibet definitely got more of the Hanoverian features than Margaret did - Margaret looked much more like the Bowes-Lyons, as later, Prince Andrew did, and then Prince Andrew's daughter, Eugenie, did.

Margaret followed the same path as many Windsors: Striking until about age 25, then hitting the wall fast.

Elizabeth was always more attractive than beautiful, so there wasn't as large a wall for her to hit.

Thank you R408, r409, r410, r411 and r412 for getting this thread back on the rails. There are SO many DL threads to hammer on MM, it would be nice to keep this particular thread a bit more tidy.

I'm very calm ( r402 here!) However, most of this shit is just over the top and it negates the VALID criticism, in some instances she is deservedly receiving. Yes. We ALL know that she is a ruthless, social climbing, fame whore. On some level I see nothing wrong with that. Harry knows exactly what she is and apparently HE thinks she's what he needs. Go figure.

And there we go...

r402, here no more off topic from ME; I'll play by the rules ; )

So that royal foibles blog seems to think Philip had a long time affair with Princess Alexandria. Since she's mentioned so often as a close confident of the queen, I wonder what the story is.

[quote]Harry knows exactly what she is and apparently HE thinks she's what he needs.

Uh, no R414. Megs is the consolation prize, not what Harry needs, but what desperate to marry Harry had to make due with after the knock-backs.

Maggie???She was called Margaret Rose

You all really know zero about them.That knickname from Prince Phillip became quite popular.

I think she was known as Margo in the family.

Margaret had her mother's porcelain Celtic coloring, which she shot all to shit with tanning, smoking, and drinking. Here she is at 30, already prematurely aged.

Of course, marriage to Snowdon would have prematurely aged anyone. That guy made Prince Phillip look like a saint.

The question is, is there any hope for poor Lady Louise? She looks a bit like her Auntie Anne, who was a handsome woman back in the day, but there's something so awkward about Edward's daughter.

R419- Ye Gads, I know no one called her Maggie, no need to be so snotty. i was just being facetious. I've been reading Ma'am Darling and have been utterly enthralled by her and the depths of her rather-tragic despair as a "spare". Let's hope Harry escapes that fate

I don't think Louise has a prayer of being as striking as Anne was in her prime.

If you want a good idea of what Margaret's marriage to Snowdon was like, read Snowdon's biography. His biographer was clearly half in love with him, and he still comes off as a raging asshole. Imagine what he must have been like in real life.

Louise is at an awkward stage, but she would be greatly helped by braces.

I think Louise resembles Edward. It seems as if Anne Elizabeth Alice Louise, The Princess Royal, could look a lot better if she wanted to. Starting with her hair and her dry wrinkled skin. Inexcusable. She chooses to look like Gary Oldman as Dracula.

Sparkle was of course provided with someone to help her navigate her way into the Royal Family. The woman had been a long time staff member of TQ (The Queen).

You can see her sitting behind Sparkle and TQ in photos from the Cheshire visit.

I believe she is the lady in the white dress sitting in the 2nd row in the picture below.

The hair is probably Anne's biggest fashion faux pas. Gary Oldman in Dracula is right. I'd love to see her in something sleek and modern.

Anne looked a lot like Phillip when she was young, but she's gotten more Windsor as she's gotten older. Quite a marked resemblance to our beloved grifter, Queen Mary.

Does Anne have a Lady's Maid to brush her hair like Lady Mary Crawley does on Downton Abbey?

Louise has a Windsor look, but her father Edward was a handsome young man. Louise is not handsome OR pretty.

Edward was a slightly gormy looking teenager, though. There may be hope for Louise if they'll fix her damn teeth.

Edward has always resembled his mother, and Louise looks a lot like a teenage Lilibet.

R429, the anachronism is the point. It's a status marker. Anne has no interest in the modern.

I bet Anne was quite the sexual bottlerocket back in the day. She had that Grace Kellyesque "ice queen with a volcano underneath" look about her.

Like Grace Kelly with a saddle...

Still my favorite take on Princess Anne:

[quote]If it doesn't fart or eat hay, she isn't interested.

R422, wow, she's gonna need a lot of plastic surgery. A nose job at the very least. She has big tits so no need for a boob job.

I love this photo of the Queen. Is she looking for a little tidbit to munch on with her tea?

Kate and George.

The Queen was quite cute as a child.

Do you think Charlotte favours the Queen? I'm always struggling to decide who she looks like..a bit of William, maybe Lady Sarah Chatto and a little bit of the Queen?

Charlotte looks like Carole.

I think Charlotte favors Queen Elizabeth II She has that Lilibet glow

Lady Louise does indeed favor Queen Mary

I like Princess Anne's coiffure, its regal.Unlike that guttersnipe Princess Micheal who looks over bleached and heavily made up.

Queen Mary as a young woman. I really see the resemblance to Anne here, particularly in the bone structure.

^^ Well, at least we know where the Queen got her big ol' eyebrows.

Not a fan of Carole, but damn, she can really play the long game with the best of them. Props to her for that. She looks quite nice in that snap.

I think Lady Louise will come into her own one day. It's time to get her teeth sorted. She may also have to have another eye operation, and they are waiting until she is older, as was the case with my cousin who had the same condition. She has a good personality by all accounts. Perhaps being a late bloomer has given her some strength of character. She carries herself with confidence.

Louise has the same quiet glow as Queen Elizabeth as a young woman. She'll probably lead the life QE wanted desperately to lead: Married to a nice man, living in the country with horses and dogs and kids.

George in jeans at R442! He's a lot younger there.

Given how he and Kate are dressed, this looks like they are out and about and "off duty".

The mirror did an artist's rendition of Kate at age 65. I don't think she'll ever wear her hair that short.

[R449]

Indeed,she is very sure of herself and has a presence at her young age.I bet she will evolve into a great beauty.

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I agree that Charlotte looks like Carole.

Does anyone know which brand of ballet flats Kate is wearing in R442? She seems like she'd be a Ferragamo Vara woman, but I've never seen her in Varas or Varinas.

I think the artist in R452 had been watching too much House of Cards.

R399, I'll have you know that the Queen Mother did indeed coach Diana, and went so far as to set up a small classroom on the upper floors of Clarence House, complete with little desks and a chalkboard where she could write out notes for Diana and things for her to recite, such as old drinking songs from the 1920's and bawdy Edwardian limericks. She often dressed as a posh schoolmarm for these lessons, wearing a only single strand of pearls. In addition, she dressed her corgies in various military officer's uniforms and paraded them in front of Diana to the beat of an old army cadet band drum, so that Diana could learn the differences in military styles. Sometimes she'd even break out into song and dance, putting her instruction to music in a sort of Royal Mary Poppins number, which delighted all the staff, who'd get in on the fun and serve as back up singers. This is well-documented.

R447 that picture looks exactly like young Charles. It is as if he were cross-dressing. In fact, yes, he WAS cross dressing!

The resemblance between Carole Middleton and Tiny Dancer Charlotte is post Carole's most recent plastic surgery results. So IMO it doesn't really count. ISee Charlotte as Windsor through and through and definitely a mini version of Betty Windsor.

Holy shit, you're right, R458.

More royals and their 19th Century doppelgangers.

Lord Freddy Windsor

Charles crossdressing

Why did you put that visual in my mind ,yuck

Prince Albert Victor

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What you have to remember is that up until Charles and Diana, the Windsors were terribly inbred. All through the 19th and early 20th Centuries, the British Royals kept marrying their cousins. It's not surprising that even today, they all bear an eerie resemblance to each other and to their long-dead relatives.

And if Dickie Mountbatten had had his way, the inbreeding would have continued, as he was angling to marry his granddaughter Amanda Knatchbull to Charles, even though the two are second cousins.

R457, I believed you until you got to the bit about "old drinking songs from the 1920's and bawdy Edwardian limericks."

Queen Victoria and Prince Albert were first cousins (her mother and his father were brother and sister). They were also third cousins through another family connection. Also keep in mind that Prince Albert’s father and mother were second cousins.

Prince Albert, Victoria’s son, married Princess Alexandra of Denmark. Alexandra’s parents King Christian IX and Queen Louise, were second cousins. Alexandra and Albert weren’t closely related, though Alexandra was a descendant of George II of England.

Prince George, Albert’s son, married his second cousin Mary of Teck.

Prince Bertie, George’s son, married Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, who was not a close relative.

The inbreeding came back in with Elizabeth and Philip, who are second cousins via their mutual ancestor Christian IX AND third cousins via their mutual ancestress Queen Victoria.

So yeah, it’s a good thing that Charles didn’t marry his second cousin. His babies would have had flippers.

Charles and Diana were not closely related, though they were both descendants of the Tudors and the Stuarts through various family lines.

William and Kate are 12th cousins via their mutual ancestor, Sir Thomas Leighton.

Still, much better than previous generations.

[R468]

That's scary....

Albert and Victoria looked like brother and sister.

You can see the resemblance in actual photographs, too.

More recycled Royal faces: Queen Vicky and Princess Bea.

Shit. With all THAT inbreeding, there's got to be an actual, authentic "Uncle Daddy" somewhere in the line....

Probably in the 18th/19th Century German lines. I do know that in those German principalities, Uncle/Niece marriages were not unheard of.

The consequences of inbreeding.

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The other consequences of inbreeding.

^^ rampant hemophilia

Louise was a preemie with eye issues. I suspect she’s special.

Would anybody even notice? Bea and Harry are thick as planks, by all accounts.

I wonder if Oprah and Dr Phil, and especially OPRAH were able to shake Fergs down for some major dirt after she appeared on their shows. Didn't Fergs even get her own OWN show for a bit?

Finding Sarah....life after royalty

Stop wishing bad luck on Prince Louis,there is nothing wrong or defective with that baby

We're talking about Louise, not Louis.

Anyone here want to speculate why Carole Middleton suddenly did an interview? Seven years after her daughter married William and 17 years after they began dating, never an interview until now. Why? I find it very strange.

I wonder what Princess Michael of Kent is currently thinking and feeling about the recent news about Harry and Meghan leaving Kensington Palace and all the subsequent gossip?

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R486 - my guess is this. She's built Party Pieces and has NEVER been able to speak to it publicly, with her thoughts on business, and this is an anniversary for the business. So it seemed right. And there's no doubt William and Catherine's "people" were involved and vetted every last question. I'm sure that happened.

Prince Albert Victor was most certainly not Jack the Ripper, as a popular conspiracy theory maintains, but he was by all accounts slow and dissolute. His personal tutor reported to Prince Albert that the child was incapable of learning. His official cause of death was influenza but his symptoms in his final days much more closely resembled late stage syphilis. (Influenza does not cause dementia, for example.) There is evidence to suggest the Prince was a client of the notorious Cleveland Street male brothel.

Queen Mary, aka May of Teck, was first engaged to him, but within six months of his death was betrothed to his brother, who became King George V.

^ Er, uh, Albert Victor's tutor of course reported to AV's father Bertie, aka Edward VII, not AV's grandfather Prince Albert, who was long dead. Sorry.

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Oh, poor Prince Harry, He will be the only answer as everyone looks for the mole who leaks. He's too dim to have played the long game with his cousins the Yorks and others? Too dim to breathe.

Yep. Harry's gonna find out who the mole is. All the way from Africa!

The pics of him from Africa, by the way, show a dramatic return to the old Harry. Better-dressed, cleaner, happier.

I hope the link works.

I feel sorry for Harry. He's been given a free pass his entire life, even before the death of his mother. The blowback from the MM hate-fest must be mortifying and shocking to him. He's got nowhere to run - if he sticks with MM to the bitter end, whenever that comes, he will be tarred with the same brush, and if he bails under pressure, he will never lose the reputation as a weak, easily-fooled dimwit.

R495, the blowback is only coming from bitchy UK fraus and even bitchier DL queens. Normal people range from apathetic to generally supportive of their charity work.

I posted this on the other thread but hoping for some sane/less-MM obsessed responses here : Have royal siblings traditionally been close in the BRF? What was Bertie's relationship with David and Margaret's with Elizabeth (the Peter Townsend affair notwithstanding) like? I doubt Charles is close with any of his. Somehow this MM fallout makes me doubt the initial PR about Wills and Harry being super close. Do you think Harry resents William? It's gotta hurt a little as a child if everyone is falling all over William to teach him/train him etc and you are ignored. Sadly, Diana might have been the only person who could have equalised the balance. Were the brothers even close to begin with? It's not something you easily get over if you feel your sibling was more loved than you.. What do you think?

Even if the leak is found,DL will rush in to gaslight it because they do not like Meghan and Harry together.It hurts their souls and they feel like they lost something to America.Which is funny,they claimed they never liked the ginger prince,but they are awefully concerned about who he marries. Thats jealousy loves, plain and simple

R498 thats ridic because then we would hate kate too since she obviously has the better spouse/life plus those wonderful children. the fact is meghan invited all this gossip by leaking to the press since she got her first whiff of prince harry. it's now backfiring of course.

i feel bad for harry in a way. i think he has a borderline personality (common for children who have lost a parent and live in an invalidating environment) and meghan a narcissist. a classic, but disastrous, combination.

[QUOTE] It hurts their souls and they feel like they lost something to America

Which is funny since most of them probably are from America

The Daily Fail story at R491 is stupid. William and Kate always spend Christmas with her family. It’s actually very well known and he’s been criticized for it.

R485 - Why not? It's not as even she's been hogging headlines for 7 years. And these things are usually done three-six months ahead of publication. So, "why now" is a misleading question.

How are we going to ‘gaslight’ a stranger, R498? Do you mean ‘undermine’? You’re not grasping the concept.

R503 it’s a lost cause. He’s illiterate and bugnuts crazy, you’re pissing into the wind trying to make sense of the ramblings of a crazy troll.

R503 - He needs to sit down and watch "Gaslight" so he understands where the term comes from. One of my very favourite Bergman films, as an aside, and Boyer made a fine thing of it as the murderous, devious husband, did he not?

R498 - The DM does't "love" anybody with the possible exception of the Queen. Their business is to keep reader interest alive and get as many clicks as possible. The DM is Britain's most read news outlet, not a psychotic spinster in a a rundown bedsit in Essex with fantasies of marrying Harry Windsor.

They only thing the DM is jealous of is The SUN breaking stories like these before they do.

What the fuck planet do you live on, anyhow?

Ha R503,R504,R505.....

Confirmed racist trash butthurt because the Daily told their ignorant asses to STFU

You lot really should flush your bitch asses down the toilet where you obviously evolved from.

[R506].....another sourpussed frau mad because Prince Harry doesn't fancy his/her weak attempts at love.Don't blame me love because my assessment stuck a nerve.Prince Harry thinks those like you are trash.An everytime you comment,you dirty hoes prove him right.

R507 - I can't tolerate you anymore. Blocked.

R507 is ripped from page 1 in The Narcissist Playbook.

Now, back to the subject matter...Some interesting tidbits about the kind Queen Alexandra.

I think Alexandra was THE best looking British Queen Consort.

Carole Middleton seems to be getting Kate's dresses.

"Prince Harry thinks those like you are trash".

Your post is hilarious. Thank you for the laugh!

The Windsor Christmas tree is being decorated.

I fear this Christmas will be Prince Philips last.

I blocked him too r508, if for nothing else the continual miss-spelling of Michael.

R512, it’s great they can swap dresses. I wonder if Kate has worn Carole’s clothes?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

507 - so the theory is that people who are "anti Meghan" think that Harry is a heartthrob and are jealous that he's been taken away by an American who was living in Canada and is presently living in Britain on the British Population's coin?

Sorry, but I am not like the low standard having male population of Datalounge pertaining to "white beauty" a paradigm that by any objective measure, even to insane male data loungers, Harry doesn't fall within. That man looks like he spittles, has the worst teeth of the Royal Family outside his dead Great Nana and is given to self neglect when he is under pressure. He is dim, and seems to have inherited the worst of both his parents without any of their plus points. He is spiteful , entitled, indolent, a cheat and a coward. He has inveigled Meghan's hubris, and has run away like the big coward that he is when the shit hit the fan. It's HIM exhibiting his mega White Privilege over his own wife! He's distancing himself as if he didn't invite her over the threshold. He's the fucking racist, putting his access to privilege before the biracial wife that he married to finesse a "modern image"! It is obvious that he has been carrying feelings about his family ( Diana's death, him being a dunce never to be King, etc , etc) instead of taking time for self reflection ( even if his family are a bunch of cunts). I bet you any money that this was a large part of the pre marriage pillow talk. Harry, knowing that without his privilege, he is no catch ( after all, none of "his own" wanted him) and with his lack of confidence he had to , even though she wanted a come up, sell himself to Meghan, who with her manipulation had to cast herself in some type of image to "snare" him. They both gave each other an "in" to each other.

I don't like Meghan. Especially as I sense that she really isn't into black people. I saw the photo of her berating a wholly black, working class "helper" at a Jamaican wedding of Harry's friend, with Harry shamefaced and not reeling her colourist, classist arse the fuck in. I don't need to see nothing else to know what she is. As my father used to say about the lighter skinned blacks of a colourist disposition in Jamaica "dem neva know dem wasn't white until dem come a Britain" and as a lighter skinned black person who doesn't have to shake my family tree like a maraca until the dark skinned provenance reveals itself, I'm not into colourist, classist paradigm that Meghan is into, seen? Even so, I do think that she should think of divorcing Harry. He is cruel and selfish. I may laugh that she is stuck in the Cotswolds , but she is pregnant and Harry has twice done a runner to Africa since they have married and not taken Meghan, Princess of The of the Commonwealth down there with him; either for optics or protection.

Next time those over invested in White liberal notions of "multiculturalism" wants a non white person to sell their soul to a very white institution in order to self validate, first make sure that they have one. Secondly, make sure that they really do have some non white pride about them and a modicum of alertness as to the dynamics of an institution that has robbed , pillaged , killed their own kin, ignored pleas for amnesty from foreign , to be killed kin and raped to still retain their place in the world. A real non white person would have had a fucking clue and had a bit more panache about going about taking down the Monarchy, but still retaining privilege ( bwhaaaaaaaaa! If I laugh one more time, I dead. The hubris of it all).

To the immature people who are fighting with each other. Please fuck off. Thank you.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^ Queen Mum's

Please take the Meghan bullshit to another thread. You're going to get this one shut down, and there are some interesting conversations going on.

Queen Alexandra was beautiful, but she and her daughter-in-law Queen Mary (our favorite grifter) couldn't stand each other. Alexandra was extremely possessive of her sons, especially after Albert Victor died young. She wouldn't move out of Sandringham for ages, leaving George and Mary and their six kids to live in the poky York Cottage.

R507 - Oooohhhhhh, it hurts, it hurts!

You need medication.

And English lessons.

And you're blocked.

R523 - Another problem for Queen Mary was that Alexandra held onto her beauty well into old age, and Mary could never measure up. Mary really didn't come into her own until Edward VII finally died and Mary went from Duchess of York to Queen.

Interesting factoid: Edward, of course, had many mistresses, including Aice Keppel, who was Camilla's great-granny. But Edward was so fat that in his later years they had a special sort of gynaecological table built for him so he could have sex more comfortable.

Camilla may have inherited many things from her fabled ancestress, but beauty wasn't one of them. Alice Keppel was one of the great beauties of her day, and a visiting dignitary upon meeting her is said to have commented that it was "easy to see why she was La Favorita".

There is something ugly about how tabloid press is piling on with Meghan hate. She did an outstanding job Meghan's been interested in, this kind of economic empowerment for women in developing countries, for several years so this was not a pre-packaged PR stunt. But since the book launch, negative press has been exploding. Please tell me racism is not a factor. (one of several.) I'd like to sell you London Bridge.

If she was rude and pushy with staff, leading up to the wedding, she was wrong. But in the context of all the turmoil surrounding her wedding, I understand it. Her personality, her style, etc. is very different to what the staff is used to. Meghan doesn't get the who cultural thing. She thought she did but she doesn't. And hasn't taken time to learn. At first all she had to do was be polite, smile and be a good listener. Kindness always works.

I can understand Catherine being hyper sensitive after giving birth too. IMO William seems like he's been behaving like a bit of a prick. Harry wears his heart on his sleeve. Very emotional. He's pretty uncomplicated. When William chose Kate, Harry embraced it and supported him. Why shouldn't Harry want that same level of loyalty and support from his own brother. I think Katherine probably hates conflict and mess and just wants things to be calm. She's no crusader and never pretended to be.

I hope who ever is in charge of press relations in KP or BP or WTF ever steps in and deals with the media and the staff, and gets this whole thing dialed back. Obviously one of the ways to calm things is to have Kate and Meghan make a few appearances together looking friendly. No one expected them to become immediate BFFs. That takes time. But if they were seen to be friendly, it would make a big difference. Meghan ought to be seen with other members of the Royal family out doing simple things like shopping or something. Let the world know she is part of the family. Hunkering down and being invisible is not a good look. Isolation is bad. They should've taken advantage of Harry being in Africa, to have her doing social family things with the rest of the family. This is largely a media crisis. The family needs to put a stop to it. And if there really is a personal rift it must be patched up too.

Why? When Harry and Meghan set up a separate "court" including physically removing themselves from London, and the epicenter of the Royal Family's doings, exploit their celebrity, they're literally competing with the RF. Meghan came from an obviously dysfunctional family with half siblings bullying and throwing shit at her, so she would find conflict "normal" in a way, because she has the experience of it, almost expects it.

Neither the Queen, nor Charles can allow that. The only thing I can think of to compare, is the Duke & Duchess of Windsor vs. Elizabeth II's household. Or, Andrew setting up his own operation to compete with Charles. Now we have potential of a similar scenario acted out between Harry & Meghan and the rest of the RF. Not good. They need to nip it now.

Andrew is getting ready for more scandalous publicity with the Epstein civil law suits coming up. Maybe that will knock Meghan off the front pages. I think the tabloid press's feeding frenzy at a time she is expecting a baby really vile. Shows that the Palace PR machine dropped the ball big time. It's Christmas. They ought to be having all kinds of great publicity around the Royal children of Kate & William, and the expectant mother.

As I understood it, William and Catherine said long ago they intended to alternate Christmases with the Middletons. The media assumes the Middletons were never invited to the Palace for Christmas but maybe they were and turned it down. Don't roll your eyes. It could happen. I thought they did go to church once with them. Not sure. But the media ascribes sinister motives to every single thing right now. Obviously, I'm looking at this as someone analyzing a media crisis. It sells.

I keep hearing that Meghan has been interested in X cause for years r526. It would be helpful if someone could provide some evidence because all I've seen so far from her is very superfical interest in causes, a few speeches, some photos and calling herself a humanitarian.

If Nutmeg is becoming uncontrollable and rude to staff, then stories MUST be leaked to nip that type of behavior in the bud. Yes, it's a shame it had to come when she's pregnant but she should've known better than to pull stunts like that. I can only hope that she LEARNS from her mistakes and doesn't repeat them.

Queen Alexandra was fierce. I loved how when it came time for her coronation her prized looks were fading somewhat, but she came up with the idea of have pageboys (and not traditional maidens of honour) to carry her long train in order that the virginal maidens not distract attention from her or make her look older. The boys were specifically picked to be beautiful and from the best families.

At one point she was asked what she would wear for the occasion and she said “I’ll wear whatever I like!!!”

The DM lead royal story is basically friendly advice along the lines of, go to HM to solve your interpersonal relationship problems. Right at the top is that video of Me sitting hatless next to HM, talking behind her hand, flirting with the guy next to her, and touching her hair every 10 seconds.

This is an almost 40yo woman who acts like she's 16.

Phony pictures of Sparkle out shopping with other RF members would just scream "BULLSHIT".

If someone can provide a picture of Kate shopping with The Princess Royal, or Sophie, or Eugenie please give a link.

And as for Sparkle shopping with Eugenie (yeah, right after Sparkle pulls that Mean Girl stunt at her wedding), or The Princess Royal (oh, please, I would LOVE to see that!)...get real.

R526, it literally WAS a PR campaign created for MM, to raise her profile. There are firms that specialize in it. At the time she was hoping to become the next GOOP with her lifestyle blog.

[quote] Harry wears his heart on his sleeve. Very emotional. He's pretty uncomplicated.

"Thick as two short planks." The report said.

I still think Princess Anne had the best wedding dress. Missing is Meghan and Eugenie (2nd choice).

I loved Eugenie's dress. She should get more of her clothes made by whoever designed it.

I loved Kate Middleton's dress.

Diana's was the worst, I'm sorry to say. Anne Shirley would have loved it, though.

Anne with the Queen - Is this the closest these two have been in years?

[quote] Let the world know she is part of the family. Hunkering down and being invisible is not a good look. Isolation is bad. They should've taken advantage of Harry being in Africa, to have her doing social family things with the rest of the family. This is largely a media crisis. The family needs to put a stop to it. And if there really is a personal rift it must be patched up too.

^^This. Great points by r526. Don't want to turn this thread into yet another Meghan thread but its hard to avoid when that story is taking up so much ink in the media right now. Hopefully this won't turn into a full-on crisis a la Diana circa 1995. They absolutely NEED to get ahead of this.

They won't get ahead of anything if they insist on defining it as a MEDIA CRISIS. It's a HazBean crisis.

Indeed it is r539. What to do though? the Queen has usually, traditionally buried her head in the sand every time one of these personal crises arises, only wading in the make repairs after major damage is done. Charles is really key here; as de facto 'head of the family' now, and basically co-monarch (regent in all but name), can't he take aside his own son and DIL and do some work? This is turning into a major, growing pr nightmare with no signs of abating.

That is, unless the BRF are giving their tacit approval to all of these stories, in order to send a pointed message. Which, if true, implies that H & M have nearly gone full rogue and aren't in communicado with the core network. Gone 'off grid' as they say.

It’s not a crisis R539? You really don’t think the family is concerned about this kind of bad press? Even if the marriage is a sham and we get a divorce announcement in the next few months, they’ll try to do damage control. It’s what they do. The leaks aren’t coming from the family, it’s staff, Pa and Sam (via staff who are colluding with them), or the Middletons. Not the Cambridges and not the Yorks and certainly not the senior royals.

Doubt it is as dramatic as that.

They may simply be countering the PR Markle is putting out and laying the groundwork for an end game, beginning to shape public opinion and lay a legal framework for the info yet to come.

r541 it's a crisis, but you are dead wrong if you don't believe some of these leaked stories (not all, but some) are coming from the BRF members themselves, or with their approval via their reps. This situation has all the hallmarks of this. They have done it before; as to WHO exactly is participating, it's hard to say.

Look at the TIMES today, of all places. Not a broadsheet; they have an article basically imploring Meghan to sidle up the Queen herself for help, to model herself on Sophie Wessex, also married to a non-heir and who does her job well after a somewhat rocky entry and start. That's not coming from the Times itself, or from Pa/Sam Markle (please!) - it's coming *directly* from BP or CH.

What staff on earth is colluding with the Markles? No one inside the BRF or their staff speaks to them, at all.

I did a search on BBC.co.uk and they’re not running these stories. How odd. Why isn’t the BBC running these stories which are undermining the monarchy?

No I’m not wrong R543

You drama queens keep me laughing. Tell me more about how this crisis will bring down the British monarchy 😂

Not sure if you're r541 or not, you need to note your posts r545. I didn't say you were totally 'wrong' btw, just disputed some details. If you believe these please post why. Stating left-fields claims like the Markles are in cahoots with BP courtiers has no basis in reality or even rumor. Do you have a link or source.

r544 the BBC usually deals with harder news, and not royal gossip. Unless it becomes a much larger story with broader repercussions to the monarchy, then - maybe.

Forgot a link to the Times piece today. Behind a paywall, sorry.

It won't bring it down r546, won't even be a blip on the radar in the grander, longer scheme of things. But it's certainly a riveting story at the moment, given all the hoopla and positivity coming off the major wedding that was barely six months ago. The tide seems to have quickly turned, if the wide spate of media stories the past two weeks is an indication. This kind of wave usually indicates fire, where smoke.

This is a "general gossip" thread after all, so us queens like to dish.

The point is, r541, MeMe has come into the BRF with all PR barrels blazing, mowing down everything in her way. As has been exhaustively detailed here, she wanted to play with the big dogs, so now it's way too late to play the wee damsal in distress or any of that garbage. She"s got a full time PR agency that in my opinion is either doing a shit job or can't get her to follow a plan.

Do not for one minute think that there is no York involvement in some of these leaks. Or inventions. When I say that, they would much rather have Meghan gossip about nothing really, on the front pages of the tabloids, than the coming civil trials filed by victims against Epstein. And Sarah Ferguson has been trading gossip for pay for years.

As for going out with other famiy members, there have been outings in the past, at places like Fortnam and Masons by The Queen, accompanied by Sophie and Anne. There's no reason why we can't see Camilla, Meghan and Katherine stopping in the High Street shops, to boost Christmas shopping. They can be seen to support the local economy without resorting to crass commercial bullshit.

Having Meghan and Catherine visit some fucking elementary school to make Christmas cards with little kids is endearing and happy and fun. Something has to happen to lighten things up. This is the Christmas Season. The RF has all the elements: A beloved old Granny Queen, adorable children, and a pregnant new duchess.

The tabloids saw the enormous popularity, off the charts crowds etc., for Meghan and Harry, IMO, and realized they could get some mileage out of Meghan. You better believe they had this all planned out, probably story boarded it before The Sussex's carriage ride around Windsor castle ended.

I hardly see much mention of Harry's trip to Africa at all. Only bullshit about who's looking cross eyed at whom among the women. This is a lot of contrived bullshit to boost circulation and clicks. Might there be some tension? Sure. Is it all that the Daily Mail and the others are trying to make it. No way.

>>the enormous popularity, off the charts crowds etc., for Meghan and Harry<<

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ... yeah, right.

Yeah it's funny how for such a popular pair they were the third most watched royal wedding in the UK. Beaten by Edward and Sophie.

This spate of bad publicity is a warning shot to Meghan. She better stop with the leaks or the firm will bury her (literally if they have to). Hopefully she will get the message

[QUOTE] gossip

Oh.

For the love of god, r507! The word is “and” not “an”.

It makes you look really stupid and from the content of your lunatic rants you need no assistance in this area.

I wouldn't wish this on her, but I could see TPTB arranging an accident for Meghan if she doesn't get in line. After the babies are born, of course. Harry the Grieving Widower could get away with murder for the next 20 years, just like Harry the Grieving Son has gotten away with it for the last 20. It would be almost too convenient for everyone except poor Meghan.

Buckle up girl, and stay out of small airplanes, is what I'm saying.

Well yeah, R556. Not like they haven’t done it before

R554 and R556 make excellent points.

I do not believe that her PR has the same goal as the RF. She has not reined it in whatsoever since the hammer started to come down. She may regret that.

The halter bra strap and strapless top were a HOOT.

I thought that thing was one of those Boca Raton old frau tankinis with the requisite strewn sequins.

Tina Weaver's column is hilarious -Oh, yes, the Queen and Charles are so taken with Meghan! The balcony and Albert Hall optics on Remembrance Day sure showed that! And of course, Meghan's loose hair after the Queen's missive that HM would be wearing a hat (clue: that means you have to, too, Meghan. The Tiara Trantrum. The Press Release supporting the P.A. who quit but mysteriously not supportive of Meghan . . .

It's too bad the Middletons have to have their Christmas Day ruined by the BRF belatedly circling the wagons. Of course, as the DM pointed out, no one will believe the optics because they come along so late - which was probably part of the BRF's strategy - to do the right thing but so late in the day that people can tell it's phonier than a $3 bill.

Remember my reminder about how after the coolness between Anne and Diana was discussed in the tabs, suddenly the two women were choreographed coming down the steps after some service together, chatting and laughing with each other, and I opined that we might see something similar at Sandringham on Christmas Day?

As Jeff Goldblum said glumly in "Jurassic Park" as they tried to outrun the T-Rex . . .

[quote]It's too bad the Middletons have to have their Christmas Day ruined by the BRF belatedly circling the wagons.

I was genuinely frustrated for them when I read this latest news. And the Cambridges would surely prefer to be with Kate's family, as originally planned.

Those of you who know the logistics and traditions better than I do: Is it possible that Will and Kate will just put in a morning church appearance with the Queen et al. on Christmas Day for the press, and then discreetly head back over to her parents' house? Could they perhaps still get away with spending most of the holiday with the Middletons?

We heard all that already, R560. Come on and give us something new. We want something else, man

Your high opinion of the Yorks, which really means Prince Andrew, head of the House of York, is touching. I'd put nothing past him, and certainly not after MM's stunt and his daughter's wedding.

But I agree that the Cambridges are far too experienced to get their hands dirty with this. Staff, undoubtedly, but with the tacit approval of the BRF if it serves their purposes.

"Off the charts popularity" . . . oh, my sides!

Their wedding drew the lowest ratings in Britain of any royal wedding broadcast since Princess Margaret's in 1960, with a parallel paltry request for street closure licences for celebratory street parties.

Harry, it is true, came in at the top of the last poll; Meghan came in . . . . sixth. If that's off the charts, Kate's position at fourth must be termed Stratospheric.

So it seems that the BRF is now ready to call a halt to this; perhaps they think the lesson has been delivered. Thus, unless the tabs have something major to drop that finishes it all off, I expect the peak of the campaign has been reached and the raging waters will recede now.

Has anyone heard from Harry? (I don't mean personally, of course.)

R550 - My post above with the first sentence about the Yorks was meant for you, sorry, I forgot to address you directly.

R563

I think the PR sputtering characterized here as "raging waters" was really more of a rippling pool. Or a gentle nudge.

R562 - Mate, if I had something new, I'd share it in a heartbeat.

But as I'm not Enty and not RADAR and not INSIDER, I can't make it up - I have to keep it honest.

And it's always gratifying to see so many on the same page - I meant, metaphorically, of course.

But I do believe we are going to be disappointed from hereon in. I really thought the tabs were leading up to something.

[quote]Has anyone heard from Harry? (I don't mean personally, of course.)

I laughed out loud, R563. We're all so crazed over the Markle gossip that we're heading through the looking glass, where this would not be out of the realm of possibility.

R565 - Just a bit of hyperbolic fun. And there was always the possibility that the waters were raging underneath with a bigger story. But it does seem as if it is going to turn out to be a damp squib.

I wonder if Andrew's name will come up in the Epstein lawsuit. That Andrew is best friends with a convicted pedophile and there is photographic evidence of Andrew with his arm around a trafficked underage woman seems far more scandalous to the BRF than not wearing a hat, or having a bra show.

R550 - Spoilsport.

Come on, Tiara Gate? The P.A.? The balcony optics on Remembrance Day? If you think that wasn't HM sending a message you're in denial.

R568, I do hold out perpetual hope for a deluge, or best case a tsunami, in these situations.

Yes but if there is one authentic parcel to Bean, it is that she is a quintessential narcissist. She won't "learn her lesson;" this won't be the end. Much more is yet to be yielded by an ego of out-sized proportions. Take the Anne and Diana sudden chumminess and then recall what lay exponentially worse later down the road.

R572 - Fair point that, about Diana being unable to shift gears after a few brushes with bad P.R. I hadn't thought of that.

She has been quite invisible through all this, and it can't be due to the pregnancy, she should in the second trimester be at that stage that people call, GLOWING.

I'm still curious about the fallout going forward behind the scenes.

Ah, to be a fly . . . .

Are members of this family allowed to have their own PR? It seems like it would be more efficient for the family to have on person who oversees all PR. Then each member could have their own rep who works WITH the overseer. That way they can make sure that all the communications are consistent and don't promote conflict or competition.

I would doubt that Meghan pays any outside PR firm. She probably considers herself an expert and plans her own covert communications 24-7.

Fuck Meghan!!! Now she ruined William’s Christmas with the Middletons??? I hate this cunt.

r569 we are absolutely going to hear more about Andrew and Epstein in the coming weeks and months. A major civil trial is due to start in FL on Dec 4th involving Epstein and a former attorney for his victims. The course of that litigation is expected to bring a deluge of renewed media attention and possibly testimony from his many victims. There was at least one who claimed she was made to have sex with Andrew at Epstein's direction on at least two occasions. He was also I believe listed in the flight logs to Epstein's "Pedo Island" on his "Lolita Express" private jet.

I don't have a link to it, but there was a major series of investigative articles published by the Miami Herald this past week. I read through most of them - horrifying stuff, not only the treatment and abuse but the aftermath of the judicial travesty. Read it if you have the time.

R576 Thanks for the info and I will try to read some of the articles.

It boggles my mind that Andrew was not formally "retired" when he was linked to Epstein and testimony emerged that he had engaged in sexual activity with trafficked minors. HM must really love this sordid man.

He was sidelined r577. He lost his role as roving business ambassador. HMtQ can’t put him up for adoption at this late stage and she can’t be seen to have excluded one of her children so he remains hanging around like a bad smell, playing golf and getting on the servant’s nerves.

I thought that the quite hastily purchased home in Sweden was to give him a bolt hole if need be. It was acquired in the last legal go round re: Epstein and his black book.

r577 I found the link to the series, below. It's called "Perversion of Justice" and it's in multi-parts, scroll to the bottom to find links to other articles and videos. Amazing stuff, and very well-presented here.

The stupid and crazy thing about Andrew is he was papped out walking with Epstein in NY as late as 2010, two full YEARS after he pled guilty to his charges and was registered as a sex offender. Just stupid. There was also discussion of a sizeable loan Fergie accepted from him, that I think had to be returned -? Someone else can Google this.

I think a lot of Charles's recent ongoing disdain of Andrew stems from this association, and others like it. He (Andrew) puts the continued existence of the BRF in jeopardy with this kind of criminal stuff.

Part 7 is at the ready when this one fills up.

[QUOTE] boggles my mind that Andrew was not formally "retired"

Well he lost the trade ambassador role, that was his most significant thing he did in his adult life other than serving during the Falklands Crisis.

I am delighted to see so many fabulous photos posted here--a goldmine. Also, such delicious gossip from yore in this thread. The Queen Mary bits crack me up every time.

There are many MM-centric threads, but as one poster mentioned that whatever the fuck is going down with H&M is the story of the moment, so some discussion here is to be expected. However, thoughtful, reasoned speculation as opposed to crazy, rabid conjecture is the difference. If your post falls into column B, you will be far more at home in a different thread. (This is me using my polite voice. Forgive me, for it is rusty.) It is heartening to see you witty bitches keeping the BRF threads from going off the rails, with only a few skirmishes that are quickly sorted.

R561 It’s 250km from the Middletons’ place in Berkshire to Sandringham so not really doable except by chopper which wouldn’t exactly be discreet.

J'adore BRF Goss troll (formerly an intern to the cause-which-shall-not-be-named). Anything you say. Hope to see you in the other threads.

Did I miss something? Are William and Kate not spending Xmas with her family?

Not sure. They will be at Sandringham with the others on Xmas day at least. As far as Boxing Day, who knows? they may split the days.

You did, R586: Due to Meghan's antics, the BRF is doing damage control. Will and Kate are now requested to spend Christmas at Sandringham rather than with the Middletons, presumably for some forced togetherness with Harry and his wife.

I'm so glad that someone acknowledged my Queen Mary hustler/grifter posts! I hope you laughed as much as I did while creating them. Delighted, R583!

They cracked me up r589

OK, I've been very honest about not being a fan of anyone in this family except HM and the DoE. (Yuge has grown on me though.) THAT SAID, I am pretty fucking impressed that Willy and Wife are changing their plans for Christmas on a dime in order to keep up appearances. I wouldn't wish anyone this fate from what I have learned how it goes at Sandringham. They have both been famously mulish to a point about observing their own family Christmas celebrations privately, and they got a lot of stick for it. But while we watch shit going south, they are doing the right thing. Props and all that. I do sort of hope there will be some hair pulling and tears, but that is just my inner drama queen needing to be fed. FEED MY BEAST! I am sure Charlotte will keep shit in line, so at least there is that.

There's also the possibility that maybe it's Philip's last Xmas....perhaps for "real" or it could be the old fashioned family guilt trip. I'm sure the Royals are just like any other family....Queen Granny sighing a lot and murmuring, "Well, William...your grandfather and I are not getting any younger. It would mean SOOOOOO much to us if you and your family spent the holidays with us....but, if you can't....we understand." (followed by large disappointed Granny sigh and misty eyed glance out the nearest window towards her eternal fate)

Let's look at the Middletons for a moment. It seems to me there is a very deliberate effort to keep a polite distance from the RF. They show up for the important things like weddings, and of course their own grandchild's baptism, but they are definitely not hangers on. They seem to favor being far in the background most of the time.

Yes, that sums up the Middletons. I've never heard anything about Sophie's parents.

r593 lol

There are none so blind as those who will not see

The Middletons seem pretty happy. They've worked hard, raised three stable children to whom they remain close, and been very successful. Now there are grandchildren. If Harry had made a better choice of a wife, perhaps he too could have been included in their family circle.

BRF Christmas sounds dreadful. A few hours of grinning through teeth, and it's over. And the children can get all the attention and absorb most of the energy.

The exchanging of the joke gifts could backfire.

Link to next thread

Actually it doesn't seem so dreadful to me. They play charades, exchange gag gifts, the kids used to put on a little play, they sing Christmas carols, and they eat and drink well. there's no stress from having to cook for a gang of people or decorate, or do all the crap stuff we have to do to get to Christmas. Now I can see how the sour Princess Margaret, or the Drama Queen Diana might inject tension. And maybe Andrew shows his ass. We all have one of those at a family gathering, but it seems like it might not be unpleasant at all these days. Now if Harry thinks he needs to come with a chip on his shoulder and be all combative and defensive, and Wills has to act all sarcastic, and stiff like he is some kind of know it all, then yeah, it could get stupid. But it needn't be. There's quite a nice gaggle of young cousins now who are married with children. I'm thinking it will be fine.

Such a farce. The entire staff is leaking, or is authorized to leak. Meghan just wants to maintain the fiction that the royal family is protecting her and cares about what gets out. Did anyone read the bit about how her diary was stolen? And how she's afraid it will be read, and things she wrote in private that were said to her in confidence would be exposed, maybe even cause trouble with Catherine and William? See what she did there? Pretending Kate confided in her personal things about her marriage.

Re Carole Middleton's interview - very interesting that she was ground staff at BA, when all along people were Dolly Traying her and "Doors to Manual." She's better than they are because she never corrected it, because she knows it would make her look trashy to TRY and correct it, like "I was never a flight attendant." As if there's something demeaning about it. Smart woman.

Also noticed her attitude about clothes and fashion. Has her particular taste, but other than that, they are not on the importance scale. I think Catherine has the same mindset, and definitely sees her engagement wardrobe as working clothes, not fashion, which drives fashion bloggers crazy.

What was the source for the story they'll do Xmas on the royal side instead of the Middleton side? The BBC has been wrong before if it's them.