Pine Valley's GLAMORAMA: Make your appointment now!

Tad Martin! He was HOT!

Bringing back a topic from the old thread

Taylor Miller (Nina) said one of the reasons she left, was that they kept repeating the same story-line of breaking up Cliff and Nina, and then having them get back together.

Ironically when she left, and was replaced by Heather Stanford, Taylor said if she knew what the writers had in store (having Nina go crazy and then wind up with memory loss) she would not have left as that was a dynamite storyline. She said she was a bit envious she didn't get a chance to do that.

Everyone here said Heather Stanford sucked, but she graduated from Yale School of Drama, so maybe she is more of a theater actress and TV is not her medium? Peter Bergman also did say he questioned her acting abilities as well. But if that is the case, how did she get through Yale?

Anyways go 1:25 into video to see Nina ( Heather Stanford) go absolutely crazy (which is why Taylor wished she had not quit, as she would have loved to play Nina crazy)

Didn't Palmer work at the Chicken Shack awhile? That James Mitchell was a beauty in his youth!

....

Who was the hunky actor brought in to play Brooke's boyfriend, who did something foolish at a fan event and immediately got booted? Jim something? He was a real hunk.

Yes, R4, the threads are similar, and so is the photo. Not that many photos to link to these days that don't have Getty's shitty paws all over them.

Just enjoy.

Stanford sucked ass and not in a good way. See the way she is playing going crazy? You would have gotten that same emotion if she was simply asking Daisy if she wanted some coffee. I would have loved to see Taylor play those scenes. She had really grown as an actress by the time she left. Same with Kim Delaney. That being said I too wanted Sean Cudahy in me. We used to laugh our asses off when he was fucking Devon. Letting her thing they were going to get married.

[quote] Stanford sucked ass and not in a good way.

But she graduated from Yale School of Drama (Meryl Streep Alma mater)

Wasn't Sean Cudahy really hairy?

I missed Devon when she left the show. It wasn't intentional but she was great comic relief. I think they tried to pair her with Cliff once. How she got as much screen time and stories as she did is beyond me because she completely sucked as an actress. She made Candice Bergen look like she was over emotional.

They did a great job casting Tom and Sean. They really looked like brothers.

Met Michael E. Knight at the Broadway Cares Equity Fight AIDS Annual Flea Market. He was at the celebrity autograph table. He was adorable and very excited to be sitting right next to Sir Ian McKellen.

Click and scroll down.

More recent photo of the actor who played Sean.

He's kept most of those gorgeous locks.

I remember on one of Taylor Miller’s later returns, she had a scene with David Canary and they purposefully played up a little wary but playful flirtation and it was great. I remember one of the soap mags talked about what great storyline potential that would be- Palmer’s most beloved daughter taking up with his mortal enemy. I actually think Adam and Nina would’ve been an amazing couple. So many inherent, juicy conflicts- Brooke was Nina’s good friend, Adam v Palmer. And they just had chemistry, even in that one scene. What could’ve been.

One of the youtube clips has a scene with Sean and Erica. It seems to be when Lucci came back from maternity leave and Erica is trying to get manipulate Tom into reconciling after she returned from California. Erica arrives at Tom's apt where Sean is staying and there conversation is technically polite, but the actors do a good job shading their responses that showed they saw each other clearly for the schemers that they were.'

Nina and Adam would have been interesting.

Eileen Davidson would have made a decent replacement Nina.

Yeah. If Nina was a man.

Ahhh, I remember the days when I let Greg Nelson and Bob Georgia double penetrate me in the parking lot behind the Glamorama. Thank God Liza never found out.

Devon always came across as comic relief. I know that AMC didn't seem to intend for her to be that, but that's how I viewed her.

Tricia Prusley was such a mediocre actress. I never understood how she kept her job for seven years. Devon was full of angst and melodrama, but Tricia couldn't pull all the subtlties of that off. She was outacted by everyone around her, except for baby Bonnie. So, I always viewed Devon's scenes as comedy because of Tricia's bad acting.

Didn't they write Devon out, then bring her back? When I first started watching she wasn't on, and she came back, I think - it was the second go round where Devon had the story with lesbian Lynn (DL fave Donna Pescow). She was still played by Tricia Pursley, but she had the mature, chic, shorter hair-do.

I want to hear more about Eileen Herlie, the lesbian. Who did she hook up with behind the scenes? Lezabeth Lawrence? Jackie Babbin? Spill the deets!

Heather Standford was brilliant and brought wit, grace and fire to the part of dormant Nina. Taylor Miller was sweet and pretty, but her Nina only rocked when with Dack Rambo. Heather could have been an Academy Award winning actress akin to Ms. Streep.

I never realized how fem MEK was in the 80s. He seemed to butch it up more in the 90s.

They gave Tad a lot more comedy in the 1980s. Easier to allow that fem side out playing comic scenes.

But by the 1990s, Tad was a much more serious character, so he had to butch it up.

Why has Michael E. Knight stayed in the closet? I don't get it. Works in entertainment, lives in NYC - it's hard not to be gay.

MEK fucked Catherine Hickland, didn’t he?

R5 His name was Jim Fitzpatrick. Pierce was the characters name. They recast the role twice and both actors were duds and didn't catch on with fans. He claimed his behavior at the fan event was because of his alcoholism.

I think his and his character could've been a mainstay on the show if he hadn't been fired. He was hot and could act well enough too. Maybe if he stayed around, maybe Ryan and Zach would have been shoved down viewers throats so much.

He's still in pretty good shape and looks good for his age (nearly 60).

His two sons are hot.

Fake Brooke!!!!

LOL at 44 minutes when Chuck Tyler and Cliff Warner look like two peas in a pod.

R31 thanks! What soaps should be. Great stuff.

The actress who played Sybil voice really grated.

Fake Brooke was too different from Julia Barr. She was a stiff actress too.

Was that before or after Sue started painting her infamous upper lip?

Jenny, Opal, and Erica! AMCs MVPs!

Any vids of Greg Nelson in a speedo?

Larry Lau had the homosex relations.

What episode did MEK butch it up? I must have missed that one.

OMG R24 THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THAT'S THE NICEST THING ANYONE EVER SAID TO ME OMG OMG OMG I CAN'T BREATHE. OMG OMG I LOVE YOU SO MUCH. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD TYPE SOMETHING SO NICE ABOUT ME. OMG OMG OMG I STILL CAN'T BREATHE. WOW WOW WOW YOUR COMMENT MADE IT ALL WORTH WHILE OMG OMG OMG YOU ARE THE NICEST PERSON THAT EVER POSTED ON DATALOUNGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW CAN I EVER THANK YOU. WOW I STILL CAN'T BREATHE.

History question.

Was Tad on the show from the beginning? Did he always know he was adopted? Who is his biological father? Why did Opal give him up?

Tad was not on the show from the beginning but close. Tad's father abused him and left him abandoned in a park with a broken arm. Dr. Joe and Ruth took him in and adopted him. Tad's father abused the whole family, Jenny and opal

Tad was adopted when he was around 6. Ray Gardner was his biological father. He was actually tossed out of a pick up truck by Ray at a park and we first saw Tad in the hospital. That’s how Nurse Ruth and Dr. Joe first got to know him.

I was very disappointed the show never delved into what exactly Tad did to survive as s young teen runaway. I suspect he depended on the kindness of older men. Tad:The Other Side of Dawn.

When was Tad a teenage runaway? Why did he runaway?

R28, weren’t they married for a time? Before she got into the Debbie Reynolds clan.

R28 Yes they were married. Hickland was also married to David Hasselhoff for awhile.

Hickland hypnotized MEK into thinking he was straight.

She hypnotized audiences into thinking she was talented and a good actress.

Now she's hypnotizing randos on the street for cash.

Catherine Hickland is the daughter-in-law of Debbie Reynolds - which means Carrie Fisher was her sister-in-law.

Tad ran away from home in 1981, right before Jenny and Opal arrived. In the story he had been getting into trouble, and he took off after he stole the family station wagon and crashed it.

In his first scenes as Tad, MEK is in jail with a hardened criminal (he calls Kate and the family comes to get him). The scene is played as if the con wants to fuck Tad, who is aware of his interest but tries to act tough

Tad was gone for around two years but of course he was SORAS’d to look a bit older. I think the stupid Nola Orsini plot was the only one which addressed his time away from Pine Valley.

R47

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

The Nola Orsini plot was stupid, but Barbara Rush was great though. They loved her and kept her around longer than originally planned.

Carol Burnett ruined AMC by stealing Dorothy Lyman away for Mama's Family. That was the beginning of the end for ACM's peak era 80s period. Dorothy's replacement wasn't funny at all.

Yeah I NEVER forgave Carol for that. In the long run I'm sure Dorothy didn't either. Had she not associated herself with that schlock she might have had a better career outside of AMC.

Tad was about 14 when he away from Pine Valley after getting in trouble with various things. I think he was smoking pot, shoplifting, etc. Felt bad about disappointing his adoptive parent. Was played at that point by John E. Dunn.

As someone said above, he ran away in summer 1981 just weeks before Opal and Jenny arrived in town on that bus. When he returned about 18 months later, he was SORASed to late teens.

My favorite Opal moment. Bedpans. LOL.

From about 78 to 89 AMC was off the charts good. Then they had so many people, who made it special, leave. They just couldn't recover. I still miss Faux Silver.

Wasn't Opal racist?

First time we see Tad, he is in jail

That was a very provocative clip R58. Calling Tad "pretty". And that touch. What the home viewers must have thought.

My... GOD! How old ARE you all? Obsessed over minutiae of a soap opera from four decades ago. Really! The very idea!

And we're also living without benefit of clergy, Mrs. Tyler!

This was before I watched, but wasn't Tad originally going to be adopted by Jeff Martin and "mousy" Mary Kenicott and when they were written off he was adopted by Joe and Ruth?

[quote]Wasn't Opal racist?

I remember when they retroconned Opal having left Ray briefly with baby/toddler Tad and someone meeting, falling in love, setting up house and having a baby (who would later show up as a super spy) with a black man people called foul because it did not fit in how early Opal had been. Plus, I don't think Tad and Jenny were much more than a couple of years apart so it did not make sense logistically either.

I actually liked recast Opal, but after her first six months on the show, she really was a different character. Once she stopped scheming to break up Tad and Dixie, she became a salt of the earth character with a big heart.

Linc and Kelly should have had kids. It would have been fun to see Phoebe meddling in their lives or breaking up their unsuitable relationships. And they shouldn’t have killed off Donna and Chuck’s baby son.

And Jeff Martin should have had kids—NOT THE ABORTION, but with his wife (Christina,the one played by Robin Strasser).

Agnes lost interest in the Tyler clan by the end of the 70s. She killed off Anne. She made Kelly sterile, meaning Linc and Kelly couldn't have kids and then had them move out of town. She made Chuck subordinate to Donna and then killed off Donna and Chuck's baby.

No future for the Tylers if they don't have children to continue on the show.

A missed story opportunity was never bringing in Charles Tyler's first wife, who was never named to the best of my recollection. Although Chuck called Phoebe "grandmother," she was really his "step-grandmother." In fact, I don't recall Chuck ever mentioning his real grandmother.

Similarly, Charles Tyler might have had other (never before mentioned) children by that first wife. Lots of story possibilities if Charles Tyler had other children aside from Chuck's father, Charles Tyler II, who was killed in an off screen car wreck at the start of the series which is why Chuck came to live with Charles and Phoebe.

Christine Baranski acting with her real-life husband Matthew Cowles, who played Billy Clyde Tuttle.

Here Christine plays Billy Clyde newest girlfriend (Jewell) who kidnap Adam Chandler for ransom

Go 1:00 into video

I wanted Alfred Vanderpoole and Greg Nelson to DP me.

I wanted Phoebe and Mona to DP me.

Who has sampled Walt Willey's pendulous dong?

Billy Clyde Tuggle was the best soap villain ever.

Myrtle Lum was a hottie!

R66, Bill Timoney (Alfred Vanderpoole) is in the Broadway cast of Network, starting previews next week.

Is Bill Timoney of the homosexual persuasion?

You don't need the pills, Kelly darlin'! You got talent!

[quote] Who has sampled Walt Willey's pendulous dong?

I wish!

Palmer and Myrtle were gay. Others,?

R75 Langley Wallingford. Actually Eileen Herlie and Louis Edmonds were best friends, and often spent holidays together.

ELEZabeth Lawrence as Myra Murdoch Sloane.

I always thought Walt Willey was the picture of masculine beauty. I would have spread my legs for him anytime.

MEK? Anyone have stories about him? He seems like a nice guy

Wow that clip at r31!! I didn't start watching until 1982--happened to tune in one day when school was out and saw (Faux) Silver on a plane to Pine Valley to find her sister Erica Kane, and I was hooked!

They must have done a big purge not long after that clip aired, because when I started watching, Sybil, Sean, Wally, that Betsy person, and fake Brooke were all gone. And who was that Rick guy? Have never heard of him, but he was Hot!

Loved seeing Grandma Kate getting the best of Erica! Kim Delaney was SO raw, but she definitely had the "it" factor. Lyman hadn't gone full tilt with Opal yet, it seems. Interesting..

That fake Brooke was worse than either of the fake Ninas or the fake Lizas!!! I remember Julia Barr returning not long after I started watching.

Thanks for sharing, r31.

How did the Erica/Brooke feud start?

Whatever happened to Rosa Nevin? Why did she leave acting?

[quote] Whatever happened to Rosa Nevin? Why did she leave acting?

She couldn't get an acting job, you can't banging your head against a wall forever.

On an older thread someone claimed to have done Walt.

I think he himself implied that during the coke fueled 80s he was bi.

I wonder why they took the comic relief Silver character and turned it into such a dark drama with a recast. No one liked it. Everyone was mad they got rid of Faux Silver.

Rosa still acts in theater in the Chicago area, where she lives. She's aged well and doesn't look like any work done either.

Thanks r86. She looks really happy.

You bitches aren't kidding! Rosa glows and looks beautiful (and natural)!

R31 - bravo on that episode! Watching early Opal with Erica was amazing. When I think of how successful AMC was with on-boarding a slew of new characters who were instant fan favorites and ultimately enduring soap opera icons (Opal, Jenny, Liza, Greg, Angie, Jesse), it makes me wonder why that could never happen today. I guess it was the alchemy of brilliant casting, rare chemistry, and solid storytelling.

You can add to that Daisy, Palmer, Cliff, Nina, Tad, and a couple others. It was nearly a whole recast of the show but it worked.

I gave up on AMC in the late 90s and never looked back. I think that Erica baby stealing SL was the final straw for me.

I like how Kate bested Erica while largely doing it in nice Kate fashion. As much as Erica looked down at PineValleyians at that time, there was still a part of her that did not want to be persona non grata with the Martin or at least Kate. Funny how when they asked how long she knew her they kind of skipped the fact that they had been in-laws twice. As selfish as Erica was and was presented there, you can't really blame her for not wanting to give Opal her number. No doubt Opal would have been pestering her non-stop and trying to get in her good graces.

Speaking of bad casts, looking at that clip at R65 - what were they thinking with the new Mike? He is nothing like the original and I can see why they killed him off.

Did the Brooke - Erica feud start over Tom and/or Brooke's involvement with Mark?

I loved the Tom and Erica romance. You truly believed Erica loved Tom. Plus they put Tom in a speedo on their honeymoon. I was sad when they broke up. I used to also love the dance the two schemers, Erica and Sean, would do whenever they were together. They could see right through each other.

R69 (nice!) I loved Billy Clyde and Estelle and Tyrone (the pimps and the other hooker Donna was associated when she first came to Pine Valley and met Chuck Tyler and tried to pry his attention away from Tara.) They were so trashy and I was such a little kid, I ate it up. The way Billy Clyde would say "Es-stelle" and 'right h-yuh' for right here as he bossed his girls around over the payphone...we imitated his piggy white trash accent thru college. Gahhh.

^^^Associated WITH^^^

[quote] I like how Kate bested Erica while largely doing it in nice Kate fashion

Grandma Kate?

Somehow they turned Donna into a boring frau. When she first came on though she really was a hoot. Especially when dealing with Pheebs. Her and Chuck's romance was one for the books. I will say she got to shine one more time during the dead baby/doll story

R94, Billy Clyde might have had a “piggy white trash” accent but the actor who played him, Matthew Cowles, was actually from a very wealthy, old money family Down South.

Okay, it took me some digging, but I answered my own question. That "Rick" person from the 1981 clip above was hunky actor Stephen Parr, who played Rick Kincaid and was involved with the Betsy, Devon, Wally, Sybil set. Wonder why he didn't last--he sure was hot!!

Erica Kane was an insufferable twat

Is an insufferable twat, R101. Is.

Is it true that Jack's humongous cock could not fit inside Erica's petite vagine?

R100, he was in a lot of commercials at that time.

Dear Erica,

R99 Perhaps it was not obvious that I was referring to a character, a character obviously portrayed by an actor, an actor who employed a piggy white trash accent, perhaps dissimilar to the way he actually speaks, to give nuance to his pimp character? Or maybe you just like to be the person who can top off a conversation with a little bit of extra know it all information.

FUCK YOU, R106. Jesus, do you go through life with an attitude like that every day? What a cunt you are.

R106 = Enid Nelson

Forgot to add, R94/104, you claimed “we imitated his piggy white trash accent thru college”? Really? I bet y’all were a scream to be around “thru college.”

Now THAT’S me attacking you, bitch. For good reason. Get that thru your thick fucking skull.

It's surprising that in 2018, there are actors who seem to have disappeared. I googled Stephen Parr, who played Rick Kincaid on AMC and there's almost nothing. his work as an actor seems to have ended and now - what? It's curious. And R100 - you're right - he was a good looknig man!

Betsy, or the actress who played her, was the homeliest woman on the show and since Devon was on at the same time, that's a statement. On one episode, Rick grabbed Betsy and drunkenly told her that his New Year's resolution was to make love to her. He had to be drunk to say that to her but it remained a creepy, weird moment.

I only got to see Donna after she was a reformed prostitute so I always found her boring, though one of the most memorable AMC scenes of my childhood was when Donna went crazy while driving and going full tilt Karen Black cross-eyed as she drove off the road...

Melissa Leo was on a Sandra Bernhard’s Sirius Show today and she asked her about her AMC experience. She said... Kim delaney took her out for her first sushi lunch. Kim was on her way out, but still was nice to the newbie. Susan Lucci was beyond lovely. Very generous. Peter Bergman - a doll. Sandra said she knew a lot of people over there at the time and she knew the set was “crazy in those days.” Melissa said for a new actress fresh out of theatre school, it was a ball. Let’s decipher Sandra- she has mentioned on air that she dated an evil, sociopathic woman who was a closeted soap actress at the time - we know it was Amanda Bearse (check). The “crazy” set was the rampant drug use and partying. God that show had to be fun in its day. What a den of inequity.

Did Amanda Bearse eat out Eileen Herlie?

[quote] she has mentioned on air that she dated an evil, sociopathic woman who was a closeted soap actress at the time - we know it was Amanda Bearse (check).

They were photographed together in Soap magazines and Sandra was identified as Amanda's "roommate"

R114- one can only assume.

Don't feed the troll, folks.

Hey Mrs. T lighten up would ya?

The guy who played Mark posed for some artistic nudes once.

NUDIES! That’s what they were. Nudies.

I remember watching AMC in the early 80s when I was in my early teens, and had a major crush on some of the guys - Cliff, Greg, Kent, etc. But as I look back now, the best looking, sexiest guy was probably Richard Shoberg as Tom. Why did I not see it then? Do tastes change that much over time?

By the time I started watching in 1986, Tom was kind of frumpy. Late 80’s Tom was a dad-jean, bad patterned sweater-wearing asexual. The men of AMC in the late 80s didn’t hold a candle to men of OLTL at that point. (Max and Cord alone!) But back to Tom, I can see when he was married to ErIca, he was a piece. The honeymoon footage shows he was beautiful in his day.

Yes - by the time I was watching Tom was handsome but very suburban dad. It probably did not help his relationship with Skye was largely just meant to be a plot device for Adam and Brooke and they were not a convincing couple. It was more believable when he fell for Barbara.

I always thought this pic was nice. Some of the younger leads today might have better gym bodies, but these two had an it-factor that am not sure you see with most of the younger soap actors today. I am sure the writing and the super-rushed production doesn't help.

Richard Shoberg (Tom) had 70s porn hotness in that photo at R123.

He and Mark LaMura were both so sexy to me. Tom had that all-American jock thing, and Mark had that dark haired, wiry, ethnic sexiness.

The biggest joke is that we were expected to believe any of those men would be attracted to that bony bitch Sue.

R123- That pic is Richard Shoberg at his peak. No question. It was downhill from there.

Mmm...Tom Cudahy in a jock. Great fantasy.

R123---Love that pic of Erica, she looks gorgeous, toned down in a sort of Rhoda Morgenstern look.

[quote] Mmm...Tom Cudahy in a jock. Great fantasy.

That full, straining pouch. Yum.

This was peak AMC. It just didn't get better than Opal Gardner, Tad, Jenny, Liza, Jesse, and lets not forget Erica as a 5 Ft. supermodel.

Why didn’t Trent Bushey have a bigger career? Was it his name? I wanted to worship his body with my tongue!

It went down hill from there because they stop caring about the character. Until Laura died and he showed he could really act. I LOVED Susan Pratt as Barbara. I watched her on General Hospital as Ann Logan. So I was surprised to see her as Barbara. I didn't know she had it in her. She was so dull on General Hospital which helped people root for Heather Webber. Unfortunately for Barbara they were just so top heavy with talent at the time they just didn't know what to do with her. As for romance she just really didn't click with any of the male leads at the time. I think they even tried to pair her with Tad. They should have cast as a power Lez.

Susan still says today that Richard was the most beautiful man she'd ever seen. He took her breath away when they first met. When she talks about it you can tell she's telling the truth and not just being flattering.

AMC really let the bottom fall out on any family foundations the show once had.

I loved Mark Lemura, he had a real gentle beauty. He was more husband material for me, Tome Cudahy was a fantasy.

[quote] Why didn’t Trent Bushey have a bigger career? Was it his name? I wanted to worship his body with my tongue!

You want it, you got it. Here is Trent Bushey in only a towel on AMC

Go 1:07 into video

The clip at R136 should actually say start at 1:06

In regards to Trent Bushey body, it should be noted that he is a former gymnast.

He seems too tall to have been a gymnast.

Did Jean LeClerc get a boner around Trent?

[quote]I watched her on General Hospital as Ann Logan

It's AnnE.

David/Trent definitely had a nice body, but if I remember correctly his character was kind of whiny, humorless, and sullen. He did not necessarily have the charisma to play the chip on the shoulder role without coming across as a bit of brat. He was very nice to look at however.

R142 the David/Laine romance was suppose to be a rehash of the Nina/Cliff - Jenny/Greg and even the Julie/Charlie teen romance - but it quickly became apparent they had no chemistry and the audience was falling asleep. The storyline was quickly aborted and both characters moved on to separate storylines.

However 3 years later when Paige Turco (Laine) chose not to renew her contract, TPTB decided to kill two birds with one stone and write both characters out, by having them quickly reunite and leave town together - in one single episode!

R143, David was a total wimp and when they introduced Trask it was obvious who would get the girl. Only he didn't.

I was talking to my sister about AMC the other night. We were reminiscing about the show. We both stopped watching at about 1990. We were laughing about the fake Ninas and how bad they were. Then she said at least they weren't as bad as the two fake Gregs. For the life of me I can't remember any fake Gregs. Does anyone else remember them?

There were a couple of fake Greg's: Don Scardino and Jack Armstrong (I had to look that up). I vaguely remember one, it must have been Scardino because I don't think I watched in '86, when Armstrong was on. But Scardino was on in 1984, in the middle of Lau's run (1981-1986), so he might have been a temporary player. Perhaps someone else here remembers.

Don Scardino was just temp recast while Lau was out for some reason.

Armstrong replaced Lau after he left (Lau was soon was snatched up by AW). He didn't catch on with the viewers and was out after about 6 months. He was also one of the many Kevin Buchanan's on OLTL. Think he lasted there a few more months there then he did on AMC.

There was also a "fake" Jenny who appeared after Jenny died. The character's real name was Sheila, and she was hired by Olga to appear as Jenny. I don't remember much other than the actress was horrible.

This video backs me up (the 2:30 mark). Also a scene with Tom and Marc trying to fight off the passion they truly felt for each other.

Laurence Lau actually walked off the set when his contract negotiations hit a standstill, so they brought in Don Scardino to pinch-hit. This was right in the beginning of his new love-interest Robin McCall (played by Hunter Tylo) being introduced. I think his agents thought this would be good timing to show ABC they meant business by staging the walk-out right at the start of the Greg/Robin romance.

It didn't hurt that Don Scardino resembled Laurence Lau. The contract was resolved, and Laurence returned to the show. Only to leave a year later, as he was unsatisfied withe the direction of the Greg/Robin storyline, and told ABC he wanted out.

The sex scene between Greg and Fake Jenny is still supposed to be the most risque scene ever shown on daytime.

Greg had the preppy 80's looked that I liked - handsome, clean cut face, and his ass filled out those tight 80's styles khakis nicely at R148.

I think AMC hit a bit of a lull in the mid-80's, started to improve again in the late 80's, and then had one more good period in the early mid-90s. I thought it might rebound again in the early 2000's (a lot of potential with David, Leo, early Greenlee, Vanessa, Bianca), but then it slipped again and never really recovered.

Bushey pits.

R123. SL was gorgeous.

I wonder if Tony Barclay ever got out of jail for killing Jenny.

[quote] I wonder if Tony Barclay ever got out of jail for killing Jenny.

He is sharing a cell with Andrew Cortlandt (who killed Natalie's husband Alex Hunter)

What about Petey Cortlandt?

[quote] What about Petey Cortlandt?

He was locked up in a mental hospital (located in Salem) as he thinks he is some dude named Ben Weston

Always had a huge crush on James Patrick Stuart. Handsome and a good actor; great comic timing.

I can't remember his name but I think he was a Cortlandt. Maybe will? Kind of compact with dark hair. He was Tracy Quartamaine's son. Only Tracy was using a different name and living in Pine Valley at the time. He was the one fakenina ran to when she went nuts. Anyway. I thought he was the hottest thing and a good actor. They really wasted him.

R159 see R155

I never could understand why woman after woman had the hots for Adam. David Canary always looked very, very old and appeared decades older than some of the women he was paired with. I've seen him in productions when he was much younger and even when he was young he looked old. And in my opinion he never had any good looks to speak of.

[quote] I thought he was the hottest thing and a good actor. They really wasted him.

here he is lip-syncing to Dreamgirls

Jane Eliot’s character on AMC was named Cynthia Preston.

r161 i agree with you, but Canary was very charismatic as an actor (until he started chewing the scenery).

Was Stewart the worst portrayal of a mentally challenged person ever?

Mary Fickett seemed very dykey, like she played softball after work with Eileen Herlie and Jackie Babbin.

R166 she starred opposite Anthony Perkins in Tea and Sympathy on Broadway

Actually, Tony Barclay ended up dying. What happened was he was trapped on the WRCW roof, cornered by Greg, who had found out about his involvement in Jenny's death. Tony fell after seeing who he thought was Jenny on the street (same idea as Chip and the pitchfork on Knots Landing, but not as good). That set up the Sheila storyline. Also, something I didn't know -- Jenny found out about Liza/Tad/Marian on the same day as her non-wedding to Tony (December 1983). The Greg and Jenny wedding was February 1984 and the couple spent their last few months in a storyline about running a club with Jessie and Angie.

Ya know if Marian Colby and Ross Chandler can be released from prison and return to Pine Valley, so could Andrew Cortlandt and Connie Wilkes (aka Silver Kane)

I always thought they should of had Deborah Goodrich come back as Connie and cause all sorts of trouble for Erica and Pine Valley in general.

Nothing could beat faux Silver's big reveal.

[quote] Laurence Lau actually walked off the set when his contract negotiations hit a standstill

Now he probably wishes he could work the Walgreens register farthest away from the door. It's cold out there, bitches!

I want Tom Cudahy's floppy jock cock bouncing off my chin.

Not bringing back Connie Wilkes was a gigantic missed opportunity.

I would much rather have had Faux Silver come back than Real Silver come to town. The Real Silver storyline was lackluster.

I’ll say this again-it should have been Crazy Connie Wilkes, with plastic surgery to look identical to Erica, who had Erica held captive during that final year on ABC.

I always thought it was odd that they started the big Erica/Jane story line and the big dead baby story line for the Hubbards and about two weeks later announced the show was ending. That had to know for awhile they were axing the show, you think they would have put the kibosh on those stories rather than have to spend the few months having to speed through the stories that needed more time and then not have much time to wrap up the show. I am guessing there had to be more to Jane's identiy initially, but they had to do a quick ending.

As much as I loved the Silver Kane (Deborah Goodrich) story back in '82-'83, what made it so fun for me was (1) seeing her emerge over those initial weeks, starting initially as the quiet, mousy, unassuming girl, and becoming the vixenish and cunning woman; and (2) the gaslighting of Erica, making her think she was going crazy. Once Erica learned what Silver was capable of, the story wasn't as fun.

While I would have welcomed a Goodrich return (she was immensely watchable), it would have been difficult to recapture what made that initial story so entertaining to me.

Look what you did to your dress Erica.

As brilliant as AMC was at casting in the early 80s, they failed miserably when it came to recasts...the Nina, Greg and Brooke replacements were among the worst recasts in daytime. The original actors were just too damn good to be forgotten.

I'd love to see footage of one of the fakegregs. I was so into the show in that time period I don't know how I missed them. Maybe it was a mental block. Since I so had the hots for Laurence Lau. He's a gay isn't he?

YES, not bringing Connie Wilkes back to get revenge on Erica and Tad was a huge missed opportunity!

[quote]As brilliant as AMC was at casting in the early 80s, they failed miserably when it came to recasts...the Nina, Greg and Brooke replacements were among the worst recasts in daytime. The original actors were just too damn good to be forgotten.

I would throw the Mike Roy recast in there as well.

I love this scene with Erica barging in on her daughter with Lena Kundera... (cunt, dare... get it?)

I loathed fake Natalie. Too bad Kate Collins and James Kiberd hated each other so much. On the other hand Robin Mattson was a terrific Janet!

Robin Mattson should have played Laurel.

Lena was a bit wooden although attractive. She always seemed a bit too old for just out of high school Bianca. Too bad they killed off Frankie. It would have been a logical second story after the coming out. Frankie coming to terms with the fact she is gay (Bianca had alrready come to terms with her sexuality - just not how to share it with Erica) and they had good chemistry. For some reason never cared for Maggie.

....

It’s so obvious that the Connie Wilkes / Silver troll is faking comments as if people want to engage on that topic. You aren’t fooling anyone!

Microdermabrasion, skin transforming crystals, or something else?

To me they just seem like coke heads.

[quote] As brilliant as AMC was at casting in the early 80s, they failed miserably when it came to recasts

Don't forget the Liza recast (played by perpetual soap actress Alice Haining) - good actress but miscast as Liza. In fact Fake Nina even said that fake Liza would have been a better replacement for Taylor Miller than her!

The Gloria character would have been amazing if Eileen Davidson had played her.

I remember the rumor that Haining was the plaything of executive producer Jacqueline Babbin, hence the awful casting. I liked Haining on ATWT as Angel Lang Snyder, though.

Good call, R192, I never put it together but the chick that played Gloria seemed like Davidson on Quaaludes. As it was, that character lasted a lot longer on the show than I expected considering her fried hair and somnambulant acting style.

R180 Lau is bi, I think. He has had GF's and I think was or is married but I think he swung both ways back in the day.

Oh dang I hated Gloria.

Actually, the actress was OK, sort of. It was the hair that bugged me.

But Gloria was about the point where I realized there was only ever going to be one story for Adam.

(1) He finds and woos a woman.

(2) She hears of his past, but he sweeps her off her feet.

(3) She has an independent thought or does something to make him jealous, and he mind fucks her, gaslights her, or in some way torments her.

(4) She absolutely loses her shit, goes psycho, loses a baby, or whatever.

(5) The downer part of the story drags on three times as long as the charming part, and somehow ends with her wary forgiveness, instead of her putting a foot in Adam's ass.

(6) Stuart gives Adam a dopey faced "It's okay!" and everything goes back to square one.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Recent interview with James Kiberd.

“Taking a break from film and television.” Yeah, right...loser.

They really had a good chance to break Adam's cycle with Liza and the whole - I am you. However it was not too long before they went from being cut from the same cloth to Adam lying to and ultimately victimizing Liza. By the third marriage Liza had lost much of her backbone and was a shell of herself. I remember when she found out Adam and Brooke were having an affair - instead of going midevial on Brooke - she practically apologized to her.

I have to say that fake Liza was just about as bad as the fake Ninas.

I hated this bitch as Liza.

Talk about 1981 to 1983 the golden years of AMC, posters forgot to mention the legendary fights between Liza and her mother Marian

They made fights between Alexis & Krystle on Dynasty seem like child play!

R201 here forgot to write that Michael E. Knight (Tad) says his all time favorite story-line was the Liza/Tad/Marian triangle.

Kim Delaney and Debbi Morgan were quite close off-screen. I often wondered how Kim and Marcy Walker got along off-set.

Kim was a hardcore party girl even then. Her booze and drugs would go on to ruin her life. She's not even allowed to see her kids.

allergies

R203- I vividly remember Kim Delaney on Rosie O’Donnell’s talk show being asked about AMC (since Rosie was a die-hard fan) and after chatting about it for awhile, Kim squinted her eyes and said... “didn’t, um, didn’t um Marcy Walker go back?” It was almost like she forgot her name for a second. And it didn’t seem bitchy- more like forgetting the name of a high school classmate. And she genuinely seemed like she wasn’t sure she did... was legit confirming if in fact her former co-star was back on a show they’d both left decades before.

Kim seemed sober in some recent interviews she did (including the AMC reunion on Home and Family) but her memory seems spotty from her years of boozing probably.

Fake Silver looks a lot like Sarah Michelle Geller.

Liza's return in the 90s was great...running WRCW, cheating with Tad...but eventually she became a frumpy frau.

Yes - Liza was great until maybe the second marriage to Adam. I remember reading an interview saying she wished Liza was more like Brooke. I know Marcy became some sort of minister, so maybe she no longer wanted to play someone devious, but if that was the case she probably ruined the character. She was pretty watered down by the time she left.

Great post, r196. You reminded me why Adam/David Canary could grow tiresome. It really was the same story over and over. And like r198 mentioned, it was business as usual with Liza. She really was his equal and then she became just another wife of Adam which was sad.

What happened to Marcy? Is she still a minister? It seems to have gone quiet on her end. I would love it if she made a comeback. She really is a great actress.

Kim Delaney had so much potential. She still carved out a decent career but I think she would have had even more success.

R211, I remember Dorothy Lyman saying on various shows that she was trying to really mentor Delaney because she felt that she really had the chance to make it big. She had the chance and blew it.

Kim had long running roles on two primetime series, NYPD Blue and Army Wives. Not a whole lot of actors can say that.

She has a recurring role on Chicago Fire currently.

Occasionally, she posts stuff from her AMC days on her Instagram.

I was watching pretty infrequently at the end, but it seemed like they were toying with pairing Erica and Adam again. It might have been interesting to have them have a go around with it being more two way and Erica actually reciprocating Adam's advances. They did work well together, It would have at the very least been better than the Erica-Ryan and Adam-Annie pairings that they ended up going with after Erica and Adam's brief flirtations.

R211. Oprah should feature her on a "Where Are They Now?" episode.

She had a twitter page for a little while a few years ago and said she was debating on doing an indie movie. I really miss her work.

Jamie Luner should have played a Julie Chandler recast.

R209- agree- Liza’s return was electric. Sadly, I missed the early 80’s golden era, so for me it was a great way to experience some of that magic way after the fact. The writers did a hell of a job with updating her character to a cutthroat Type A Executive who took no prisoners but was just a wounded girl at heart. Her scenes with Tad, Dixie, ErIca, Marian, and Opal were stellar. And sadly... the show did what it always did to its villianesses which was totally water her down. I could never understand why they couldn’t just let a female character be “bad”. They always had to make them saintly which ultimately ruined them and made them boring to watch. It was a shame.

All My Children was the softest of the soaps and could never give us a major league villainess, unless you include Kendall. Janet doesn't really qualify because she was more of a comic relief loon.

R218- to be fair, 70s-era ErIca Kane was just that and drove the early popularity of the show. Obviously she was softened over the years but always remained a brat. However her storylines in the 1970’s gained her fans like Camille Paglia.

Love that pic, R213, I remember thinking that Greg and Jenny were the most beautiful couple in the world when I was a nine year old watching their Summer in New York in 1983. I remember People magazine doing an article about them and it all but said that they had nothing to do with each other in real life, which I found disappointing. Of the young power couples of AMC they were my favorite, followed closely by Nico and Cecily, who were more fun, though not quite as pretty.

It was hard to see how far the soaps fall so fast. When Greg and Jenny were on even people who didn't watch the show knew who they were. I'm surprised Lau didn't end up on prime time too.

Kim, Larry and Susan on the over of TV Guide.

Jesus she was gorgeous.

HE was gorgeous, too.

He was every dreamy HS and college guy from that era. Banging body, great hair, preppie looks.

Kim's modeling portfolio when she was with the Elite Modeling Agency.

r219, I'm talking about a psychopathic villainess, like the Sheila character from the Bell soaps. None of the ABC soaps to my knowledge had a woman who was pure evil in that way. They had bitches like Erica, but never true psychopaths.

I hated retard Stewart.

David Canary should have returned his Emmys for his portrayal of Stuart.

R226 Vanessa (Played by Marj Dusay) she was a drug lord!

I knew any hope of the show rebounding was over for good when they did the Vanessa drug lord story. Plus the timeline was so screwy at the time -- in order to make her Sam Page's mother with Richard Fields - they had her Hollywood starlet phase when she was about 40. And she also managed to have two later in life children close together that no one knew about, including her grown or almost grown son.

It is too bad because she was really good as an amoral - borderline sociopath socialite who hated Erica and dug her claws into Palmer and had a creepy relationship with son Leo and antagonistic relationship with David. The show went from almost being back on track with some good recent hires to starting the final decent down the drain.

I always thought the initial plan was to make David be Eric Kane's son. It would have fit into Vanessa being a young starlet and marrying the person David thought was his father out of necessity and being resentful for being in a loveless marriage. It also fit with why she had a secret vendetta against Erica when she first came to town. That obviously changed when Erica and David became involved. Heyward and Lucci had good chemistry, but they did not do much with them as a couple, and think they could have gotten more long term out of them being siblings. They certainly had certain personality similarities. It would have added some extra drama when David hid the fact Babe's baby was actually Bianca's.

Vanessa vs. Erica was more interesting than Vanessa vs. Greenlee. Erica and Vanessa were better matched, whereas the would put Greenlee in helpless ingenue mode (which she normally was not) and Vanessa would easily devour her. Plus Vanessa was more subtle and sneaky early on which made her scheming against Erica more interesting.

They should have made Alex Devane the psycho. I loved Finola in that role.

Who is this Kim Delaney? Was she an extra?

R232 She played your drunken grandmother.

Sue must have hated Kim at first glance. How would you like to have been in your sixties and have to compete with that? She's probably the one who bought the monthly cognac club membership for Kim

Brooke's mother, Peg English, was the Cobra, the original AMC drug lord.

I would love to see Phoebe's reaction to that whole mess.

[quote] Brooke's mother, Peg English, was the Cobra, the original AMC drug lord.

It was revealed in that storyline, Peg English wasn't Brooke's biological mother.

R235, was wondering when someone was going to bring that storyline up. It was great.

R238- This is the storyline credited for the mid-80’s AMC creative slump. We have to move on to avoid a thread killer. So with that in mind... JENNY! GREG!!! NATALIE!!! LIZA!!!! KENDALL!!!! NICO!!!!

Brooke’s biological mother, Jane, was so boring.

Drug lord Peg English and Naxi spy Lars Bogard were the two WTF storylines during the glory years of 1981-84.

I never found the Erica Kane character to be sympathetic or genuine.

You weren't supposed to.

Oh please. They tried endlessly to make Erica sympathetic in Lucci's quest for the Emmy. Lucci could never pull off any deeper material.

Erica, sympathetic? I never got that as the angle they were going for. At least back in the 80s when I watched Erica was spoiled, self-centered, whiny, and the character was largely played for laughs or high drama. I don't think they wanted viewers to hate Erica, but I don't think they wanted viewers to sympathize with her either. That was more for Mona, who had to put up with Erica's antics and complaining.

Maybe they changed the focus in the 90s and beyond, but that was my read on 80s Erica.

I don't think Lucci was necessarily the greatest dramatic actress, but I thought she did pull off the subtext that deep down Erica was damaged and vulnerable. She was better at showing this off in little moments rather than a big dramatic crying scene. Probably an unpopular opinion, but I do think her work in the Bianca intervention scene where she won the Emmy was award winning and not "we just need to give it to her." She did a good job holding looking both devastated that Bianca was telling her she blamed her and overjoyed that Bianca was opening up.

I saw her Richard Field trial testimony somewhat recently, and I thought she did a great job recalling the night. It helped greatly that it was a more subdued telling rather than a full on cry. When she held back and did not go all out scene chewing, she could be effective. Although the over the top Woman of the Year drug meltdown was pretty entertaining and well done.

This bony bitch broke bones trying to eke out those fake tears.

She did a great job when Mona died. Mona was a great back burner of a character. Back in the days when they had a ton of back burner characters to help move the plots. The character of Erica wouldn't have been half as great as it was without Mona. Some of the best scenes were Mona popping Erica's balloon.

Really? I still laugh at that so fucking OTT fall on the coffin.

I thought she did great in the episodes leading up to the coffin fall. Mona did help make her character. I also loved her relationship with Mark. The scenes with Mark/Mona/Erica were always gold and probably helped keep her relatable.

Oh Erica. I mean really.

R246, I was on the Daytime Enmy panel in NY when Lucci finally won. And she thoroughly deserved that win. She simply submitted the most effective tape.Some of the ones she submitted in previous years were dire.

R252 that was the feedback from people on the blue ribbon panel - that Lucci would send in tapes didn't show any range.

One year she sent in her "Erica - the movie" episode where she was confronted in a dream by all her exs

Another year she sent in the anniversary episode, where she and the other four remaining original cast-members reminisced (in character) about the past 20 years.

Why did Lucci get so many Emmy nominations... UNDESERVING I might add, and versatile talents like Kate Collins were shut out?

One year those of us in the panel (which included cast members of OLTL and ATWT) were at our lunch break and surmised that Lucci (and Huber) were submitting bad tapes on purpose to keep the losing streak going because it was good for Lucci financially and publicity-wise.

R254 the old system of nominating, is that eveyone voted the top five actress of the year, whoever got the 5th highest votes and up was nominated.

Susan Lucci was the biggest name in daytime, so her name was automatically checked off like an after-thought

R255 it is possible Lucci just didn't have the material - Erica is a character that is spoiled and vain, that is hardly a role that shows any range.

Most of the nominations and a goodly chunk of the wins were the result of name recognition. Viki Sleestak is undeniably talented, and deserved recognition. Not sure if she deserved it that many times.

On the flip side, Lucci may have deserved it more than once. Beverlee McKinsey deserved it at least once in her almost 25 year daytime career and never got it.

R256, I remember one particular year when her tape included an episode with Erica yelping over a dead body being put into the trunk of a car. It provoked unintentional laughter. When it concluded we looked at each other as if to say “What the fuck was THAT?”

R252, even Dorothy Lyman said that. She was on the Arsenio show and he asked her about AMC and Susan Lucci and the Emmy and Lyman plainly said it was probably what she was putting on her submission reel.

Why exactly does there need to be an excuse for Hooch not winning? No one ever simply says she wasn't that good and she was always up against much better actresses.

Amanda Bearse deserved an Emmy.

I used to think that La Looch didn't win because she wasn't a good actor, but that was when I pretty much only watched AMC. Having seen some of the performances of those who defeated her through the years, including Slezak and Zimmer, I have to say that she actually wasn't that bad...the bar was pretty low.

While Slee and Kimmy could both be big hams, they were both far better than Looch ever was. Looch could never go "raw" like those two. Looch was more in line with Andrea Evans - a good soap personality but mainly a superficial actress.

She'd never do it, but I'd love to hear Susan's commentary on her peers. I'm thinking Erika, Robin Strasser, Victoria Wyndham, Kim Zimmer, Deidre, even CZP, Leslie Charleson and Melody Thomas Scott.

Leslie Charleson never gets mentioned in these discussions as one of the best actresses, but I think she was up there. From my recollections (GH viewer '81-'85, and off and on the rest of the 80s), she was never as hammy as the others. Very controlled, effective, and understated, even in scenes where she displayed anger or anguish.

I know Slee is generally loved here, and she was fine half the time. But some of those Viki to Niki performances... they should take Emmy's away for that crap.

Loved, loved, loved Leslie Charleson.

Did Myrtle ever win or get nominated for supporting actress. I really loved that old lady.

Did Myrtle ever have a legit storyline of her own? I mean aside from the two day stories that occurred on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day where she was being wooed by a man who may or may not be Santa Claus? I always thought of her as a backburner character, there to fill in the gaps for the main players.

Myrtle got nominated four times ('83-'86) in the supporting category. Lost all four times to four different actresses: Louise Shaffer (Rae, RH), Judi Evans (Beth, GL), Beth Maitland (Traci, Y&R), and Leann Hunley (Anna, DOOL).

I'm so ashamed but I cried during Myrtle's funeral. All the flashbacks really showed what a part of the show she was. I loved when she tangled with the "professor". LOL

Leslie Charleson was nominated a few times in the 80s and once in the 90s (all Lead Actress noms), but never won. I can't believe Nancy Addison never won for Ryan's Hope in the 80s either, she was terrific.

Meanwhile you have Laura fucking Wright winning these days (albeit a much more shallow pool of performers).

It warms my heart to see all this Leslie Charleson love. Her work holds up.

My mother always laughed at how often Mona's lines began with "Oh,... ".

"Oh, Erica..." "Oh, Charles..."

[quote]I'm so ashamed but I cried during Myrtle's funeral. All the flashbacks really showed what a part of the show she was. I loved when she tangled with the "professor". LOL

Some of these characters you grew to "know" for 10 or 20 years, so I don't think it's that strange to feel moved by their deaths, especially during memorial scenes, where the other characters are remembering them and sobbing.

I think soap operas, at least back in the day, were unique in that many of the veteran actors had been working together for years (or decades) and probably were there for weddings, births, funerals, etc. for each other and their families. To watch those scenes, I'd say some of that is more about real emotion, and less about acting. For AMC, whether it was Mona, Myrtle, Phoebe, Palmer - there were a bunch of co-workers, like Erica, Joe, Ruth, Brooke, Opal - who had been with them for years. How couldn't they have some real emotion in those scenes?

Leann Hunley who won for DAYS as Anna Brady was up against theater royalty!

Dame Judith Anderson

Uta Hagan

Kathleen Widdoes

Eileen Herlie

All theater trained Shakespearean actresses - but none of them had the material other than holding a coffee pot and saying "More coffee, dear" If any of those four had the right material, there was no way Leann Hunley could beat any of them.

OLTL must have the record for most Best Actress wins, right? Slee, Strasser, Light, Haskell, HBS

Scott Thompson Baker (who is a christian fundie) playing bed-hopping con artist on All My Children (he tried to romance Dixie and con her out of her millions)

I think they changed the role mid-way through the storyline, as originally he was suppose to be Dixie savior. Then 3 months later, they decide to make him a con artist, so they could bring on Teresa Blake (Gloria) as his accomplice

Anyways here he is doing something, he never did on General Hospital (as Colton Shore) a bed scene - again because of his Christian values, but I guess since he was new at AMC he felt he had no choice. Maybe he even saw it as a challenge, though it went against his Christian beliefs.

Go 8:40 into video

Zimmer became a parody of herself, but she had the talent and the skills early on. She deserved the first Emmys. The only time we saw a flicker of it later was when Tom Pelphrey came on board, and challenged her.

Slezak was just completely overrated. A two trick pony, at best.

Lucci grew as an actress over the years, but I think one challenge she had is that Erica was such a cultural icon early on that people believed it was her, and there was no acting. Even after her performance got better and deeper, they still though she was Erica, Hair Tossing Super Model.

Here's an episode from 37 years ago! I didn't watch back then, but I watched GH, because my older sisters would watch. The clip has an ad for OLTL and GH towards the end, and it took me right back to that summer. I would hang out with friends all day swimming, of riding our bikes, but I'd be sure to be home by 3pm for my stories. I'd half pay attention to all that Luke and Laura crap, but I was riveted so Joe investigating Diana's murder, Bobbie hooking up with Noah (swoon), Monica spying on Alan with his mistress Susan.

Anyway, interesting to see the AMC scenes of Jenny working at Foxy's. I vaguely remember hearing that backstory, but I think I started following AMC the next year (1982).

Kim Delaney was the worst actress in the world when she first came on AMC. Actually, she WASN'T an actress; she was a model. She got marginally better, but I never thought she had any great acting talent, although she was very good looking at one time. I remember her as a very unconvincing female war correspondent on "Tour of Duty." Her character got killed, which was very satisfying.

Some of those '80s clips, Lucci is overwrought and I remember her shrieking when Mona died, but it made sense because this was Erica Kane losing her mother.

I agree that the Bianca intervention, Lucci was fabulous. I think when Lucci underplayed, it was her biggest strength. When Erica had to compose herself and drop the airs, she was really fabulous. I think my all-time favourite scene was the goodbye scenes with SMG's Kendall. Seeing Erica try to say goodbye to a daughter she can't bring herself to fully love was some strong acting. Actually both Lucci and SMG were amazing. The tension between them actually worked in the scenes because there was a wall that both were trying to break down but couldn't and it resonated with the characters.

I don't think there is anything embarrassing about crying at a scene like Myrtle's death. Some of the deaths on AMC were hard because we knew the actors had died as well.

Actually these threads have really moved me because I realize how much I loved and miss AMC and wish it was back on the air. And seeing all the love for the show and its characters - and referencing characters who I thought I only remembered (calling Gloria!) is why I love Datalounge.

Irna Phillips mentored and trained Agnes Nixon and William J. Bell

Those two mentored and trained Pat Falken Smith, Douglas Marland and James E. Reilly

Safe to say those are the five best soap writers in the business. The fact that Marland and Reilly didn't train and mentor the next generation is one (but not the only reason) Soaps have died - because at the end of the day it is about the writing.

Right now nobody knows how to write soaps, because today's soap writing is atrocious.

SMG is is one breach in Susan Lucci's armor. She came off as uncaring and unprofessional by cold shouldering her in public even if Michelle Gellar was a brat... Deidre Hall and Alison Sweeney did not get along for years *at all*, yet Hall always championed her and was kind and encouraging when she spoke of Sweeney in public.

I think SMG felt her career would benefit if she would create a "feud" - unfortunately Susan Lucci career has gotten even better, while SMG can't even get an audition for a sitcom.

The Kendall - Erica goodbye scene was well done. It was nice to see them take the high road with the exit when they could have easily had Kendall written out by going full-psycho. They did a nice job balancing them coming to terms and really wishing each other well, but knowing that they would probably never be close.

Until there was a recast years later, although even then they actually did a pretty good job of taking their time of them becoming close and doing it in stages. They did not go from hating each other to Kendall calling Erica mom - there was a transition stage where they were civil but not esp. close, but they both cared about Bianca.

I agree with the decline in writing on soaps. Whoever wrote Erica's testimony dialogue did a great job of outlining the horror of the rape with just a few descriptions. Good acting by a lot of people in this episode, and the actress playing Livia had enough gravitas that she was a believable lawyer. You also got to see Mona be bad ass one last time. Frau Heflin must have gotten sick not too long after that.

The other scene that stands out for me that Lucci effectively underplayed was when she returned Maria's baby to her. I actually thought, as bad as that story line was, that she might win an Emmy from that scene.

Was AMC the only soap that would do a love triangle story with senior citizens? Because the Charles/Phoebe/Mona story was a big hoot. Especially the way it ended. Phoebe faking that she had to be in a wheelchair and needed her husband. Mona letting Charles go. Then the day he agrees to go back to Phoebe he tells her. Out on the patio. When he leaves Phoebe gets out of her chair and starts dancing. Charles forgot something and goes back and sees her dancing.

"That Mona Kane woman."

R282 Marland was mentored and trained in part by Harding Lemay. He really didn't have much to do with Nixon or Bell at the beginning of his career.

He was an actor who got into writing. If I remember correctly he played Lisa's doctor on ATWT, the show he would become famous for writing, when she had a phantom pregnancy.

I get and agree with your general point, though.

R286, how many times did they do that story? I remember when Phoebe was in the wheelchair and she told Benny she needed to get onto the porch to exercise. In the middle of her calisthenics, Charles comes in, catches her and takes her wheelchair away.

What was the deal with the Giles St Clair story. It was odd and didn’t seem to fit on AMC.

Also, why did Jane Elliot leave? I would’ve thought Cynthia could have turned into a great rival for Erica eventually.

Jane said she loved AMC as a set. Not sure why she left, but wonder if, like Genie, the network wanted her back on GH.

[quote] Also, why did Jane Elliot leave? I would’ve thought Cynthia could have turned into a great rival for Erica eventually.

She was let go as the writers felt there was nowhere to go with the character. They toyed with the idea of pairing her up with Adam, but then TPTB felt Julia Barr deserved the slot as David Canary new leading lady. They just brought Natalie on to battle with Erica, so there was nothing to do with the character of Cynthia.

Jane might have liked AMC as a set, but she was unhappy with the storyline, as she felt the character was too one-dimensional.

R289 your version is probably correct. I just remember everyone jumping up and cheering that the old lady had been caught. Laughing too. They defanged Phoebe in the later years of her run, probably for the best because she became a more fleshed out character, but people forget what a true bitch she was in her earlier days. She was pretty nasty.

They should have sent Tracy Quartermaine to AMC in the 80s instead of had Jane play a new character.

[quote]people forget what a true bitch she was in her earlier days. She was pretty nasty.

You don't know the half of it!

"I respect Donna for what she has been through, however... I cannot forgive WHO she was or WHAT she was, or those appalling people she associated with... that Billy Clyde Tuggle and that Estelle LaTour!"

I agree with the insights on Erica. Her overall journey as a character - specifically how she was written and positioned - was interesting.

In the 70s, she filled a story function - she was the troublemaker and a catalyst for story (like Phoebe). Agnes wrote a very human reason - her need for love because of abandonment issues. Obviously the character took off and they devoted more screen time to her.

That resulted in having to up the stakes and the stories for Erica. Combined with the overall "glitz" of the 80s, you get Erica the model, becoming famous, etc. The wonderful serendipity of it is, by this time, the writers realized that Lucci had comedic abilities and could pull off Erica's outrageous narcissism in a funny and charming manner. Thus you get what I call the "glory years" for Erica - from about 1980 - 1987 - where the character was primarily played for comedic purposes. I do not think it's a coincidence that this is the time frame where Lucci started to become a household name (helped in part by the Emmy losses).

Starting in 1987 with Travis through the mid 90s, Erica lost her edge. A big part of that was the birth of Bianca which, understandably, was a decision made to help the character grow and evolve (as much as I would have loved Erica to continue as an unchecked ego maniac, I can understand why others might not). This period - for me - is remembered more for the quality of the stories than Erica herself. People were obsessed with Erica and Jack but I found them boring. The Kendall story, despite making zero sense continuity wise, was interesting and gave Lucci something good to play.

The pill addiction story from 95-96 was, to me, the last great Erica story. I thought Lucci was fantastic, not only in her breakdown speech but in the powder room scenes before (whispering to herself in the mirror "I am Erica Kane. I am Erica Kane" as a mantra of reinforcement to herself to not fall apart). Her screaming at Maria and Brooke, crawling on the bathroom floor picking up dropped pills, lashing out at Myrtle. Those episodes ranged from comedy to tragedy in a moment. They were great.

After that, it seemed the writers didn't really know what to do with Erica. They knew they needed to write for her because she was the face of the show and the most famous daytime star out there. But Erica had already become famous, and matured (slightly) due to the deaths of Mona and the birth of Bianca. Also, post pill story, I noticed Lucci seemed to get more self conscious in her acting. The posturing, posing and hair flipping started to increase. It was almost if she was trying to fight her age through making Erica more coquettish. The unfortunate thing was that no one seemed to try to figure out what the next big journey for Erica was. What does the latter half of life look like for, ultimately, an incredibly insecure person who has achieved so much? A "lose everything and start over" story could have been interesting but they never went there.

When Erica was positioned as reactionary to her family there was interesting material: Bianca's intervention, coming out, rape, the baby switch. You got to see her be the mama bear, which Lucci played well. And they never, NEVER played her comedic skills enough. She's actually a good comic actress.

What would Erica have been like from 97-2011 if she had the same level of clarity that she had for her first 27 years? I've always wondered. What do you all think?

Regardless, I miss this show. I miss Erica. Life is so scary and hard. Knowing Pine Valley was there, day in and day out, always gave me a little bit of comfort in its stability. It is so sorely missed.

There was a storyline where Erica went undercover for some reason. She was a waitress at a greasy spoon (AMC writers had gone on vacation. Erica would have never been a waitress and they had been watching too much Alice) but there was a moment where a trucker identified her. Cliffhanger. Erica said of course I'm Erica Kane and that's why I'm working here. And this is Paul Newman and this is Elizabeth Taylor. Overall, a great scene and played very well by Lucci.

Erica is the only one I know who can screw on soap operas, take no birth control pills or anything and never get pregnant

The waitress story line was when she was Erica was in hiding from Travis after she discovered he faked his kidnapping which led to Bianca being kidnapped. It always irritated me how Travis basically blamed everything on Erica for the demise of their first marriage when what he did was really unforgivable.

Nice post R297. I wish more of the 70's stuff would have survived. I agree, while the Woman of the Year speech was memorable, I thought the episode leading up to it where everything went wrong, Erica finding out Adam bought her award, the press overhearing Dimitri tell her they were through, the spilled wine, the trembling while trying to put on lipstick in the bathroom was the one where her acting really shone.

This is more of Eden's story, but her last good story line might have been the coming out story. Lucci had no problems showing Erica as a very flawed mother.. Even before the coming out when planning a big party for Bianca, I thought she really nailed the narcissistic mother who has a hard time not seeing her daughter as an extension of herself. I also thought she was used well in the end of the baby switch story line. There was a scene when she goes to see the baby and silently realizes the baby is a Kane and you see all of the reactions on her face - including a quick -- I will cut you Tad as he tries to pull her away. It was odd that the story ended with Babe far away during the resolution and Bianca in a coma (the ultimate confrontation was pretty tame), but Lucci Canary, and Jacob Young really did some good work bringing the story to its conclusion. The scenes between Erica and Adam used their history well.

[quote]Erica is the only one I know who can screw on soap operas, take no birth control pills or anything and never get pregnant

Except for when she was taking birth control during her marriage to Tom, and while Erica did not become pregnant, Lucci sure did. I do remember a scene with Erica and Mona when Erica discovered she was pregnant with Bianca. Mona basically asked her was she not being careful, and Erica replied they were, but whoever said accidents usually happen at home was correct. Funny how I can remember scenes from the 80's and early 90's and have basically forgotten every plot post 2003.

R300, the line was from Millie Jackson's monologue about soap operas. Her previous line was "no one ever gets any on soap operas unless it's to become pregnant".

[quote]After that, it seemed the writers didn't really know what to do with Erica.

I think part of this was the Frons era of ABC daytime did not know what to do with any women over the age of 30..

One scene I still remember was when Adam was using Erica to try to make Brooke jealous. They were in a restaurant and he made a big thing about how they were together. Once Brooke and (I think) Tom left, Erica tore Adam a new asshole. Very much in keeping with the character but it was fun to see Erica put on the spot for once.

I think it might have been Jack instead of Tom when she and Jack were on the outs but she still had a thing for him.

Trying to remember what Giles St. Clair looked like. Anyone remember the actors name so I can google?

Very European. Dark brown hair. Not overly muscular but very ripped. Somehow Erica managed to keep him in a speedo all summer.

girl talk with Myrtle and Opal. AMC did these types of scenes better than anyone

Jorn Winther died earlier this month. He was the EP who oversaw AMC for two stints in the 80s. He elevated AMC and introduced location shoots such a Nina and Cliff's wedding to the show. AMC at its best...

From what I remember, the cast was pretty fond of him.

Nice man but his son Kim is a major asshole. He’s an assistant director on films.

I loved Erica's storyline with Natalie and Jeremy because it was the first time Erica had a rival who she considered a true threat. They were so fantastic together.... Natalie brought out Erica's insecurity and fears, she never quite felt as sure about herself when Nat was around and was interesting to finally get Erica a female dynamic that got under her skin.

I'm trying to remember how Opal reacted when Jenny died, but I have no recollection of her at the time. I'm pretty sure Lyman was off the show by then, but did they not even acknowledge Opal at Jenny's services? That feels like a miss to me.

r311, I doubt Lyman could have played it raw. I never saw her play Opal beyond the clown schtick... same with Jill Larson. The character seemed mildly retarded to me and incapable of a different mood.

Lyman could definitely handle dramatic scenes, if you've seen her outside of AMC or Mama's Family, that is very obvious. But I don't think the AMC writers ever gave Opal "drama"... at least in the 80s, which is the only time I watched regularly, they maintained Opal as the "comic" character

Robin Mattson should have played the Laurel character and had an affair with Trevor, causing Natalie to leave town... and then it would have been revealed Laurel was in cahoots with Janet from prison and was a psychopath herself, so if Kate Collins had come back down the line, it could have been as Janet after Laurel for revenge or as Natalie.

Gilles St. Clair was played by French actor Gilles Kohler.

r311 As I recall, the explained Opal's absence at Jenny's funeral by saying that Opal had an ear infection and could not fly.

Though the cast liked Dorothy Lyman they didn't particularly like working with her because the writers pretty much ad-lib most of her material. The scenes with Myrtle and real Opal were almost entirely ad libbed.

I was the most faithful watcher of AMC when Giles was on. I certainly remember him but have no idea what point of plot he served. He would be in his speedos, come down, say something to a room full of women, usually Brooke, Erica, and especially Olga. They'd all get in a twitter and it would end with Erica saying something like "Oh Giles why don't you go back up on the roof and work on your tan". Then he'd trot off in his speedo. Other than eye candy what purpose he served I have no recollection.

This picture doesn't really do him justice but here he is while on AMC

Natalie's romance with Trevor made NO SENSE, although it drove story for several years and some viewers liked it.

Think about it: She'd obsessed over Jermey for years prior, moved Heaven and Earth to snag him, and shortly after he finally fall for her, too, their relationship goes kaput with little motivation. And then beautiful Natalie falls for fat swine Trevor.

Was there some backstage reason Kate Collins was suddenly wrenched from Jean LeClerc's orbit into the odious James Kiberd's?

Wasn’t that about the time “Moonlighting” was a hit, r319?

Regardless I was a fan of the Natalie/Trevor courtship. I thought the actors had great chemistry!

[quote] From what I remember, the cast was pretty fond of him. (Jorn Wither)

Yes but his replacement was Jacqueline Babbin, and many AMC fans point her tenure as the golden classic years of AMC

[quote] I thought the actors had great chemistry!

They despised each other, and Soap Opera Digest cover had to be cancelled because they hated each other so much.

When Kate Collins decided to leave, she didn't even tell James Kiberd. He found out about it from other people, she did tell.

You're correct, R320, about "Moonlighting", and that may have been behind Tad and Barbara's short-lived foray into running a detective agency.

It still doesn't motivate a Natalie/ Trevor romance. It would have made much more sense for Janet to plot, scheme and steal Jeremy from Natalie than from Trevor.

I knew that they despised each other in real life but I thought they hid it really well. I enjoyed their scenes together.

In all honesty, I think Lucy and Scott on General Hospital did better with the Moonlighting style of romance. Oddly enough, I think Dorothy Lyman left just before Jenny's failed wedding to Tony and her real wedding to Greg. It's a pity she couldn't have hung on for 2-3 more months.

[quote] It's a pity she couldn't have hung on for 2-3 more months.

She was doing Mama;s Family and AMC at the same time.

R316, Opal didn’t attend Jenny and Greg’s wedding because she had an ear infection and couldn’t fly. She wasn’t at Jenny’s funeral because she was a basket case and couldn’t bear showing up for it.

When I worked as a background actor on AMC in the early 80s we’d sit in the Green Room watching the studio floor feed. Sometimes Marcy Walker and Amanda Bearse would hang out with us. I remember we all enjoyed Gilles cooing to Brooke’s daughter in that thick French accent-“Leetle Lo-wha”!

Do you remember what Gilles point of being on the show was?

[quote]Think about it: She'd obsessed over Jermey for years prior, moved Heaven and Earth to snag him, and shortly after he finally fall for her, too, their relationship goes kaput with little motivation. And then beautiful Natalie falls for fat swine Trevor.

Plus Trevor was a bad guy for the first few months on the show, he was actually working with Jeremy's ex Marissa on breaking up Natalie and Jeremy which led to Marissa almost murdering Natalie. Natalie cannot forgive Jeremy for being an idiot and foolishly believing his ex but she was ok with Trevor who knowingly schemed with her.

Trevor was great on Loving. I'm probably the only person in the world whose favorite soap was Loving. We had a lot of AMC rejects move to Corinth.

R331 I liked Loving too. Not my favorite soap though (that would be AMC). Kiberd got a lot a praise for his role on Loving, but I didn't start watching until the early 90s.

I loved Loving! The serial killer story was one of the best on soaps ever!

Don't forget they had Trucker too.

I only started watching Loving with the ending murder mystery, but I don't daytime has done a comparable whodunit since.

Mmmm, Trucker. Hottest guy on a soap ever. And there have been plenty of hot ones.

Yes, the Loving murders storyline was great. Wish someone would upload the whole thing on youtube. Would love to watch it again. There is way too little of Loving on youtube though in general.

Although GH, AMC and OLTL were the popular soaps, Ryan's Hope was the one that always got all the awards and critical acclaim. It was always towards the bottom of the ratings as well.

Too bad they didn't move Maggie from Ryan's Hope to Corinth.

I started a Loving thread a few years ago. I was shocked that it had like 500 responses. Another reason to love Datalounge.

I also loved the chemistry between Natalie and Trevor. It's a shame James Kiberd was such an asshole. Has Kelly Ripa ever talked about her "Uncle Porkchop"?

I don't think Kelly has ever had Uncle Porkchop on the show. She's had plenty of other AMC folks on however.

Rips has talked about what a bitch Collins was.

Leslie Charleson was nominated, not for Best Actress, for an Emmy as Iris on Love Is A Many Splendored Thing. It was one of those deals where you could be lumped with the set decorator or the stage manager. She didn't win.

Never loved Loving.

It killed Ryan's Hope, to be honest. And was never really anywhere near as good.

I loved RH but it didn't need any help being killed. It was just not a popular show.

I feel like Ryan's Hope would have thrived if ABC had aired soaps in the late '50s. That brings me to one of my favorite things about AMC in its prime -- how it seemed to be both quintessential soap opera yet also feel fresh.

RH was brilliantly written, brilliantly acted and was always acknowledged at Emmy time but it never really caught on with the audiences. Maybe it was just too too working class. Even the wealthy Coleridges seemed middle class.

*sobs*

A phenomenal scene from RH. Jack is in love with his sister in law but can't admit it and the writers use La Traviata as the backdrop. Watch Sarah Felder in this. She's riveting.

Wasn't there some controversy with Sarah Felder?

R350, ABC thought she wasn't pretty enough so they tried to restyle her by cutting her hair. Felder is one of those rare actresses who wasn't a beauty, didn't conform to soap standards of appearance yet was simply beautiful because of her personality.

Sarah Felder was wonderful. She had an offbeat style, perfect for the character.

Not sure if this was listed upthread

Former AMC producer Jorn Winther dead

What killed Ryan's Hope was the turnstile casting. Except for Mauve, Johnny, and Jack I think every lead character was played by at least five people. The recasts, no matter how good, could NEVER live up to the originals. Especially the fake Marys. Kate Mulgrew was just irreplaceable. It's not that the recasts were so bad it's that the originals were so good.

Cali Timmins who played Maggie was absolutely mesmerizing in any scene she was in. Especially the brief period the paired her with Max. It was electrifying. For some reason they ended up putting her back with Roger.

[quote] Except for Mauve, Johnny, and Jack

Jillian and Roger were on the show all 14 years as well.

But I agree, the revolving door of Franks, Pats, Marys, Sibohans and Delias were frustrating.

However, I would say the timeslot did the show no favors. Especially, when they put Loving at 12:30 and moved Ryan's Hope to 12 noon. That was the kiss of death.

If Ryan's Hope had aired between All My Children and One Life to Live, I imagine it would have soared in the ratings.

I don't necessarily agree on the re-casting. The original fake Mary, Mary Carney might have actually made a great replacement had she not followed Mulgrew. If they had started with Kathleen Tolan, Fake Mary #2 and one of the worst actresses ever on soaps, and replaced her with Carney, the writers might have actually done something with the character. As for Frank, they started out poorly with Christian Slater's dad, got even worse with the psycho killer from Dirty Harry but landed with Daniel Hugh Kelly who was very good. I don't even remember the others. However, the way they remade the Delia character with Randall Edwards was a sign of how good the writers could have been. The whole storyline with the Crystal Palace could never have been pulled off with Ilene Kristen, brilliant as she was. Similarly, the show could not recast Sarah Felder's part so when they finally got Marg, they seriously retooled the character and she had some impact in the role.

As much as I love Robin Mattson her turn as Delia was ridiculously bad. When you make Robin Mattson look bad you know something is wrong. Bonus: Bill Hyde is in the clip.

Robin Mattson stinks up every show she is in.

I love Robin. She did a great job as Janet. To be able to reform Janet-from-Another-Planet and have her and Trevor fall in love (!) was ridiculous on paper but somehow she made it work.

Bill Hyde! A scene in Ryan's Hope where he was in white boxers and Grant Show as his brother was in a towel confirmed my homosexuality.

I think I checked the last time you (or someone else here) mentioned Bill Hyde and couldn't find a photo, but you sure have me curious R360!

The only body better than "Bill Hyde" was Trucker on Loving.

This thread has brought back some memories. There was a character named Gloria (the actress had a main of long curly hair) who was going to marry mentally challenged Stuart, but she falls in love with Adam. I think Stuart, being a saint, forgives his brother for stealing away his bride. Did Gloria and Adam marry? Anyway, I remember her going completely crazy; she started poisoning him and ended up in a hospital cuddling a pillow she thought was her baby (did she lose a baby? I can't remember). Anyway, I just wondered what finally happened to poor nutty Gloria.

Fuck Gloria. She was a hoe. I still want to know what Gilles was doing on AMC.

Gloria got a ton of hate mail from fraus when she was wearing a g-string under her negligee. Unlike the ones Phoebe always wore, this one obviously wasn't full length.

R363 Gloria was discussed extensively upthread.

And yes, she married Adam.

Adam did something bad that caused Gloria to leave him -- doing this at a dramatic soapy fashion during the renewal of their vows right as a tornado was hitting (starting the scarred Julia story line). At the same time Gloria discovered she was pregnant. Adam found out and tried to force her to reconcile, I believe even locking her up when she was about 5 to 6 months pregnant. This caused premature labor and the baby dying (I remember Erica actually being nice to Gloria during this - triggering an Erica/Dimitri reunion). Gloria pretended to forgive Adam, but blamed him for the baby's death and was secretly slowing poisoning him -- I believe usually his oatmeal (not the same as the poisoned pancakes that killed Dixie....).

I had been a casual soap viewer as a kid, usually when my older siblings were watching GUIDING LIGHT (I believe John Wesley Shipp in a speedo made me realize at around 11 that I was gay) or when my aunts were watching ANOTHER WORLD.

I had sort of seen AMC some (my mom watched it before she went back to work) but didn't get into until I happened to catch the first episode with Silver (aka Connie Wilkes), and I was hooked. I was 13, I think. It will always be "my show" and even though the last years were somewhat dire, I still miss it every day.

Robin Mattson could often spin crap into gold. The writers tried writing Janet into a corner by making her going against fan faves like Brooke and Dixie, and were actually planning writing the character off after the nixed bombing storyline (nixed because Oklahoma City bombing) and thankfully her exit leaked online in advance and many fans protested online and they changed their minds. It's a shame she was wasted her last few years on the show for the most part.

By the time I really got into soaps, Ryan's Hope was either on in the wee hours, and then not carried at all by my local affiliate. I did however think David Sederholm (Bill Hyde) was GORGEOUS when I'd see him in the soap mags or when I'd visit my cousin--the only rabid Ryan's Hope fan I ever knew. He was only on 2-3 years. He must have not been much of an actor since no other soaps snatched him up; he certainly had the looks. Gay?

Sorry, don't want to hijack the AMC thread, but I'd forgotten about hot Bill Hyde!!!

I met Robin Mattson during her AMC stint, and she was fabulous. Very warm and down to earth.

Robin Mattson's best roles were Heather on GH and Gina on Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara was her longest continuous run. She and Justin Deas were on fire. I'll give her credit...she's been on just about every soap there is.

Dixie was written pretty annoyingly during the time of Janet's return. I think a lot of people were hoping Janet would use the crow bar on her.

I hoped that Janet would use the crowbar on Dixie and especially Laurel.

Laurel was hated by many viewers.

Always thought it was a crime Sarah Felder and Kate Mulgrew never shared scenes on Ryan's Hope. They were by far that show's best actresses.

Ryan's Hope was twee garbage with that hyper religious twit played by Helen Gallagher moralising everybody. AMC had a sly sense of humor.

Kate Collins was a GODDESS

Were there any longtime AMC characters that never really had a scenes together? For example, I'm trying to remember if Adam/Myrtle ever crossed paths or Jesse/Phoebe.

Not sure about Adam and Jesse, but I think all the others have.

Myrtle was a surrogate mother to so many, including Erica and her daughters post-Mona. She must have had a confrontation or two with Adam in protective mother mode.

R348- the Ryan’s Hope finale set the standard for how a long running show should bow out. It was so poignant and consistent with the tone of the show. This was the sort of finale AMC fans deserved. I know it could be argued that they needed a cliffhanger to tee up the Hulu show, but ending a 40 year run on ABC with a gun shot was just so misbegotten. You could’ve honored the legacy of the show and still left people eager to watch the Hulu show. Just awful.

I remember some sort of conflict between Jesse and Adam. Maybe about the Steam Pit...

Adam stole the Steam Pit from Jesse. Did they have scenes during the Cindy Parker story when Angie was her doctor?

Happy Thansgiving from Pine Valley, 1989!

This episode has a LOT!

* the first appearance of Jill Larson's Opal

* baby dyke Bianca in a pilgrim dress

* a musical performance by Donna, Emily Ann, and Mrs. Valentine's granddaughter

* Mona shooting daggers at her (woefully miscast) ex-husband Eric

* Ruth being a low-key bitch as her Thanksgiving gathering goes off the rails

* the not so great Michael Brainard as Joey and the equally not-great Lonnie Quinn as Will

* Lauren Holly's butch haircut

* Skye and Nico teaching David and Phoebe the true meaning of Thanksgiving, respectively

* and the early stages of Natalie and Trevor, with goddess Kate Collins giving you SUBTEXT!

Sigh....I always loved the Thanksgiving episodes. We'd always watch it before eating our own Thanksgiving dinner.

They gave Jill Larson as Opal a weird 1940s hairdo for the first months she was on.

r384, it really is a shame that AMC lost any sense of family after the mid 90s.

In that 1989 Thanksgiving clip, Lauren Holly's Julie referred to Eric Kane as "grandfather."

I'm drawing a blank on that. Was Julie related to Eric somehow? Or was this just an affectionate nickname Julie had for him?

[quote] not so great Michael Brainard as Joey and the equally not-great Lonnie Quinn as Will

Bland and blander.

It was always interesting to me that Erica was never a character that "pulled the show together" or in any way provided a foundation, yet she became the "face" of AMC.

Julie was Mark Dalton’s daughter. He was son of Eric. Half brother of ErIca. The actor who played Eric was so clearly younger than Mona. It was creepy to even imagine them spawning ErIca.

I never told Erica that Satan was her real father.

Frances Heflin’s (Mona) real life daughter, Nora. She was in ‘Chilly Scenes of Winter’ and ‘Born Innocent’.

In 'Born Innocent' there's an infamous scene where she sticks a plunger handle up Linda Blair's snatch.

I wonder if she watched that from with Fra?

*I wonder if she watched that movie with Fra?

What has Felicity LaFortune been uo to lately?

R396 She still acts in theater.

Fra Heflin also had a daughter named Mady Kaplan, who appeared on Edge of Night in 1981 as Bobbie Gerard, who was part of the Sky Whitney storyline.

IMDB also lists her having roles on ATWT as Marie Kovack in 1985 and GL as Pearl Crystal in 1981, but I don't recall her.

Lucci on Sally Jessy in 1990. It's weird but from a period in the late 80s to the mid 90s, Lucci was considered a top tier celebrity and not just a soap star. What caused that?

Is Lucci the only soap star to host SNL? She did a great job, BTW. I thought it was because of the quick study required on soaps as well as being able to subtly look at the monitor for your lines.

Apparently Dierdre Hall was asked to host SNL, but she thought it was beneath her.

Lucci was a great SNL host, surprisingly.

Why'd didn't Jean and Kate marry? They were clearly in love with each other..

Kate's cute little bubble bob hairdo she briefly had before they cut and gave her the terrible frumpy frau look.

Don't forget how fat she got during her caftan years.

r399, The networks starred Lucci in many made for television movies too. So did other daytime actresses such as Dee, Genie, and Marcy. Soaps were just more popular and stood out more for reasons that are well known.

Fran Heflin son (Jonathan Kaplan) is a director who directed "The Accused" with Jodie Foster

Wesley Snipe in his first acting role on All My Children

Wesley Snipes & Darnell Williams FIGHT!

Go 4:25 into video

Jean and Kate likely didn't marry because, y'know, Jean loved COCK.

Jean was super hot when he was young. He hit the wall fast though. It's like all that cock sucking made his face cave in.

[quote] IMDB also lists her having roles on ATWT as Marie Kovack in 1985 and GL as Pearl Crystal in 1981, but I don't recall her.

Marie on ATWT was the catalyst that returned Frannie Hughes to Oakdale in the recast form of Julianne Moore (seriously!). Marie had slept with Frannie's boyfriend Kevin (Steven Weber) at Yale, sending Frannie scurrying home. Marie's plots to ruin Frannie and Kevin ended when she found out her employer, and new Frannie-lover, Douglas Cummings (John Wesley Shipp) was obsessed with Frannie's aunt Kim and Douglas killed her.

All the female Heflins had unfortunate hatchet faces.

Fra’s niece Marta was actually attractive but suffered from bulimia for a large part of her life. She died in 2013.

Marta was actually a fairly successful musical comedy actress in the late 60's early 70s. Hair, Jesus Christ Superstar, Fiddler on the Roof. She is unfortunately probably best known for the topless swim she did in Streisand's A Star is Born. On her commentary, Streisand didn't even remember her name but said she felt sorry for her because the pool was freezing cold.

Who cares about Mona's ugly children? For heaven's sake they're all a bunch of dogs. Lets talk about my new cover story in Tempo magazine.

[quote]Mona shooting daggers at her (woefully miscast) ex-husband Eric

Yes, Albert Stratton was indeed woefully miscast. That likely explains why he only lasted a year on the show.

And you're right about the age. Stratton was 52 in real life (born in 1937), while Fra Heflin was 69 (born in 1920).

But who could they have cast in the role of Eric? What actor would have been late 60s/early 70s in 1989 who could have pulled off the role of manipulative, self-involved Eric Kane?

Maybe Gabrielle Carteris in drag?

Robert Mandan might have made a good Eric. While he has 10 years younger than Fra Heflin, he had experience with daytime and comedy. And he was good playing a self absorbed, effete jerk.

Which of the vets was a pain behind the scenes. One of them had to have been difficult.

Wasn't Dorothy Lyman such a pain in the ass that they recast Opal with Jill Larson, instead of bringing back Lyman--who was apparently interested?

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As I recall, Lyman said they never contacted her about resuming the role of Opal in late 1989. Mama's Family was just about over at that point (last new episode aired in Feb. 1990) and she said she would have definitely considered it.

The Eric Kane as a clown was one of the stranger ones. When she was starting to suspect that he was her father, they made a big deal of him faking his death and alluding that he had done something wrong and might be dangerous. Once she brought him home, that was completely ignored - no legal consequences and no criminal ties. They even underplayed the emotional repercussions for his actions in faking his death not to mention causing major abandonment issues for Erica growing up.

They briefly teased that he might get involved with Natalie, but mostly he was just a sounding board for Erica and someone to side with Travis during the Erica/Jack/Travis triangle. I think his exit story was a handful of episodes. He and Erica had a disagreement and out of spite he left an sold his Enchantment shares to Natalie or Adam. It was odd, because he and Erica had been getting a long well and it seemed like an extreme reaction. His year on the show as barely a supporting character was strange considering who he was and all the issues he had caused that had driven Erica for the entire run of the show. If you are going to bring Eric Kane back from the dead (which was a mistake in the first place) - do something with him.

I loved Jill Larson as Opal. No, she wasn't Dorothy, but I liked her, especially in the early years.

I don't know that pairing her with Palmer was a great thing for the character, though. She should have always been struggling.

It's funny because I started liking Jill in the later years. Really liking her. I loved her and Palmer together. They never could have paired Lyman's Opal with Plamer. Well maybe it would have been interesting but I don't think it would have worked. I say this as a huge Lyman fan too. Lyman's Opal was probably my favorite character after real Nina.

Myrtle had great chemistry with both Opals.

I loved Palmer and Opal's relationship with Dixie. They were the parents she never had, and in the '90s, those relationships were front and center.

Of course, later on, Palmer and Opal were split up for no good reason, Dixie was killed off multiple times and subsequent HWs completely ignored what was left of the Courtlandts.

It was a nice touch, however, on Palmer's memorial episode, that Tad had a quiet monologue where he acknowledged that Dixie had thought of him as a father.

The first year or so Opal 2 was on the show she was more crass and a schemer. She disapproved of Dixie and worked with Palmer to break them up. By the time Tad "died" she thought of Dixie as a daughter and before you knew it she was Erica's best friend and considered as a bit eccentric but with a heart of gold.

Did Opal and Palmer finally break up due to the misguided stolen Nazi art story line? He had a one-night-stand with Janet Green who was posing as Jane Cox, but I think they got past that. I liked Palmer's toxic marriage to Vanessa, so was fine with a temporary break from Opal, but it never made much sense that they never had them reconcile while James Mitchell could still do the story line. It is not like either of them had other love interests after Palmer threw Vanessa out, and they were constantly together anyway.

Interesting connection with Eva LaRue to the Les Moonves scandal

Is the Martin housewarming on YouTube? I couldn’t find it. I’m curious about it since it sounds like so many old characters came back, most for the final time.

Used to love when original Opal was messing around with Langley, behind Phoebe's back.

Opal had sex with Langley?

This thread was supposed to be for both AMC and OLTL but it seems a whole lot of OLTL'ers want their own so

HERE Y'ARE, BITCHES

R434, I love how Phoebe's helmet shakes ever so slightly.

Does anyone have video of Susan Lucci's Emmy winning EPISODE ? If I recall it was an hour long anorexia intervention. My VCR didn't tape that day and I have been always curious. I was never able to find it on youtube. Thanks!

I have never found it either. The women of the year melt down and returning the baby are easy to find, but not this one. It is too bad, because it is a good episode on its own, and kind of works as a stand alone episode. All the actors nailed it - it was like Barbara and Travis had never left. Sometimes those short return stints don't feel quite right, but they still knew how to play their characters and the chemistry between the four characters - Travis-Erica-Jack-Barbara still was still there.

I suppose it could still be there but not labeled with anything specific - but something like AMC 1998, but I have never dug that deeply.

Mark's drug intervention is the funniest shit I've ever seen on a soap. Lucci was a hot mess in that scene. "OH MAAAAARK, WE LOOOOVE YOU."

When she was goodt She was very, very good,t And when she was bad she was horrid.

at 13:08,

Lucci had such good chemistry with her brother and had some nice scenes before and after the intervention - but yes - the episode was not her best dramatic moment. I wonder how she would have played it ten years later when she was starting to down play some of her crying scenes. He showed up for her alcohol intervention. There were a few moments there where I thought she was going to go over the top -- but she ended keeping it reigned in for the most part.

Loved Erica and Adam going at it and Erica's bad Raising Kane acting. I kind of wish they would have gone with Erica and Adam as an actual couple at the end of the series, which they appeared to be doing but instead went with Erica and Ryan and Adam and Annie. Although their friendship was pretty good at that point and a true romantic pairing probably would have blown that up. Still it would have been better than Ryan or Jack part 10.

I hoped that Janet would use the crowbar on Dixie and especially Laurel. Laurel was hated by many viewers.

I vaguely remember the original Laurel was cast with this very tall , elegant and beautiful (Clearly an ex- model) blonde. She was replaced quickly. I remember my sister saying when Susan L. got back from summer vacation and saw her she probably had her fired. She was THE model after all. The actress couldn't act, but so what. The they got Felicity Lafortune (That name. Was her mother a stripper?) from Ryan's Hope.

I seem to remember a Walt Wiley interview where he mentioned the first Laurel was a little green. I think sometimes the quick departures are not just not being able to act, but not being able to learn all the lines and do the job. I believe Walt did mention it was a strange recast in that the actresses were so different. Someone really must have liked Felicity, because they tried really hard to ram her done the viewers throat as the best woman ever. She can play ball with Timmy - she can make cookies - she is understanding - she has a heart of gold etc. Her crimes were all to protect her daughter and was her husband's fault. I wonder if they would have gone more with a femme fatale or at least gray character, had the blonde stayed in the part. It is hard to imagine they would have hired a model type to play a character who really just wanted to be a wife and mother.

Funny and on-point SNL sketch with the late and great Phil Hartman. The opening sketch has DL fave Jan Hooks btw.

Wait (444)! I'm rusty. The blonde girl with autism (Who went on to a small part in The Hunger Games) was Laurel's daughter? Did that mean at some point she had an affair with Jack? I actually don't remember how Jack did get a daughter.

BTW Walt Wiley can't help but be goofy in interviews. I used to have to change the channels. Nice guy, but soooo corny. Like an embarrassing dad.

Kristen Jensen (first Laurel) was an ex-model. She had done some acting, but nothing really major. She wasn't really given anything too challenging during her short 3-month stint and thought she did well enough with what she was given. Her Laurel was a mystery woman. She gave an interview to one of the soap magazines afterwards and said she was totally blindsided by the firing. The producers didn't indicate they had any problems with her work or that she needed to change anything. She just had gotten an apartment too since she was living in LA when she landed the part.

I'm not sure if she could've handled the more difficult storylines La Fortune's Laurel got, like her evil ex showing up, her killing him in self defense and hiding the body. La Fortune did pull that of well, but Laurel soon became very insufferable. Fans were rooting for Janet over her (and they certainly did try writing Janet into a corner, and were even set to write her off at one point, just goes to show how good Robin Mattson was as Janet). Funny how fans can change things when they aren't buying what they writers/producers are selling.

R446 Lily was Laurel's daughter from her first marriage to Denny Benton. Laurel killed him in self defense. I think Jack adopted her after Laurel died.

I never cared much for the Jack character. Walt seems like a very nice guy, but yeah he can come across as corny.

^^^ Thank you. I forgot that storyline. Kale Brown played him. He worked a lot! IMDB is great!

Jack was Lily's stepfather during their marriage. For some reason Jack remained her guardian even though the show tried to make Trevor seem to be her real soulmate and he was her husband when she died and Jack was not Lily's stepfather for long. I suppose that was largely due to the fact that Trevor left the show by the time they wanted to bring back the character.

Jack was OK as the black sheep brother who was a bit of a rogue and as a supporting character. He was a bit of a stick in the mud once he became more of a Dudley DoRight DA. Similarly, he and Erica were fun when it was more of an impulsive affair not as much when it was written as this great love.

R445's link tries to download shit on your desktop.

Here's an actual link.

The screams when they show the logo for this clip are hysterical.

Hmm, odd, mine does a download too....

I remember the crowd having a big reaction when she walked into the chapel as well.

SNL being an NBC show you think they would have had Diedre Hall host at some point, although I am not sure she could have done the satire and comedy. Did she guest on Friends when Joey was working on Days? I know they had some cameos.

I know Friends had Joey work on Days due to it being a NBC show, but the show clearly had some AMC fans somewhere - Phoebe (Tyler), Joey (Martin), (Adam) Chandler, Ross (Chandler), Rachel (Janet Greene). Am assuming Monica might have been a nod to GH - and Rachel also possibly to AW. Monica and Chandlers twins were named Jack and Erica, Even though Joey worked on Days, the Susan Sarandon's character seemed modeled after Lucci.

Deidre was never on Friends, no. I want to say that Bright Kaufman Crane wanted Joey to be on All My Children, but NBC refused. I also remember TV Guide "Jeering" the idea of DOOL being produced in NYC, pointing out he could have been on AW instead.

Alfred Vanderpool looks pretty good. And works all the time.

Did Devon and Amanda Cousins ever do the lez-lez?

I can see why soap operas died. Front-burner characters had a zillion marriages and love interests. It all got to be too much. I liked Erica when I started watching in the 1970s, but by the late 1980s, she was on her millionth guy. It got to be too much. I gave up soaps in the early 90s. I remember in the early 2000s, I was home with the flu for a whole week. I tried watching some of the soaps I used to watch. All were unwatchable to me. It was like no characters had made any growth whatsoever.

I'm glad I was able to watch during the 1970s and 1980s, which are the so-called Golden Age of Soaps. The characters and storylines were new, or at least seemed so to a teenager like me at the time. Every soap ripped off Luke and Laura, who were original in their adventure storylines. Then it all got recycled so many times it became blah.

Luke and Laura's storyline is what killed the soaps. It took GH outside in the world when the best of soaps were studio bound and about characters, not crazy outlandish plots like that fucking Ice Princess. Gloria Monty destroyed this genre and made it inane and childish... and that's how we ended up with a steaming turd like Passions.

Well, Luke and Laura were original at the time and we loved them as teenagers. I don't see that plot line as having ruined soaps. It was that other soaps desperately tried to latch on to that type of storyline. That and the fact that they hired pretty instead of talented again and again. Luke was fugly, but Tony Geary at least had some talent and made Luke a memorable character.

I loved the Ice Princess story except for Alexandra Quartermaine's death. It was much better than listening to boring hospital cafeteria chitchat relays or watching coffee get poured at ugly Kelly's Diner.

I also hated it that characters came back from the dead so often.

A lot of people blame The Ice Princess for the death of soaps. But it wasn't the first crazy adventure story on the soaps. Hell, even Ryan's Hope - which won Emmy's for Best Writing six times during its short lifespan - had storylines about an Egyptian Mummy curse, and King Kong where a gorilla kidnapped Delia, and that was before the Ice Princess.

But perhaps the popularity of The Ice Princess caused the balance to shift. It was just one story at the time, but after its success it seemed that crazy escapades became the norm rather than the occasional. I think it's sentiments like R460 that changed what soaps originally were. I liked listening in on those conversations between friends, hearing their takes on the events going on around them. I liked the slower pacing... miss a day or two, and catch right back up.

(I'm reminded of the scene in Golden Girls where Blanche is reading the comic strip Apartment 3-G in the newspaper. Dorothy gets nostalgic, and mentions she hasn't read it in years. Blanche tells her she'll get her caught up: "it's later the same day...")

Coming from someone who wasn't a huge Ice Princess fan, the first part of that story was excellent, the introduction of Alex Quartermaine, Laura becoming secretary at ELQ and developing a rivalry with Alex, Lesley having split from Rick and starting to date Tony Cassadeine, and everyone on the hunt for the Ice Princess even if they didn't exactly know why it was so valuable. Once they revealed the power of the Ice Princess and introduced the Cassedeine's island, they lost me.

Jennifer Bassey tweeted this recently

Gloria Monty certainly hated old soap style shows, and she did try to tear that style apart. But she still recognized what made it popular - that it wasn't just supercouples and over the top melodrama, but also friendships and family ties. During her first GH run she did a good job of balancing those things.

She's sometimes blamed for the beginning of the demise of soaps, and it's true that she was one of the first to take away the intimate conversations and small moments many of us loved. But I think it was more the advent of 24 hour cable news, reality TV and talk shows that have done more damage. When you can see paternity revelations in 10 minutes instead of 3 years....well, instant gratification, folks.

You know what? FUCK Gloria "There are so many people who WANT to be raped!" Monty. Fuck that sick bitch.

One of the many things that caught my attention about AMC when I was a young gayling was Daisy's cat, Bonkers! I don't recall any other soap characters having pets. I think maybe he belonged to producer Jackie Babbin? They even wrote it in when the cat died...I remember Daisy being distraught. I doubt any other soaps ever addressed the feeling of losing a pet.

I wish I could find those episodes (it was only one or two, I think), but here's Bonkers at the beginning of this clip. I also loved Daisy.

R466 Harold, Timmy's dog figured into some storylines in the 90s. They even had a small storyline when died. They brought back Kate Collins as Natalie to welcome Harold into heaven. I thought it was funny they even gave her a scene with a dog over a scene with James Kiberd.

Bonkers was the real-life pet of AMC EP Jackie Babbin.

Ha! I remember that r467. That's hilarious that Kate hated him so much that she would rather have a scene with a dog than him.

Harold! How did I forget him!

OJ killed soaps, the way he killed Ron and Nicole. Gloria Monty had nothing to do with it. Judy Judy danced on their grave.

Sloppy writing and keeping characters around too long helped kill American soaps.

The show was in decline by the time of Harold's death, because I remember it being the best story at the time.

I've always thought that AMC's decline began shortly after the 25th anniversary shows where everyone came back for Joe and Ruth's housewarming in early 1995.

Sure, there were some good storylines in the ensuing years, the last great one probably being Bianca's coming out. And there were LOTS of clunkers in those final 15 years.

But more importantly, in those final 15 years, the show began to gradually change, loose its small town feel and emphasize looks over talent when casting the actors. It was slow at first, but certainly noticeable, especially when AMC turned into the Ryan Lavery Show for a year or so in 1998-99 following Matheson's arrival. And by 2002 when Frons came on board and pushed Agnes out, the decline accelerated rapidly.

r474, that's the year the ratings started eroding too. You can trace AMC toppling out of the top tier in the ratings from when SMG left in July 1995.

Also, 1995 was the year the show changed its opening and theme AGAIN and went for this hideous white layout with little bubbles of actors posing, and perhaps the most offensive to the ears theme tune in soap history. The audience wisely tuned out.

January 1995 was when the OJ trial began.

Harold the dog was put to good use during Janet's return. She was passing herself off as Jane Cox and Harold had her number. Janet drugged him and sent him on a truck for far away (Canada?). He recovered and high-tailed (pun intended) back to Pine Valley, interrupting Janet's wedding to Trevor.

Agreed that the show began to go off the rails after the 25th anniversary. McTavish just got totally out of control. Lorraine Broderick wrote some good material when she returned later in 95, but there was too much emphasis on the new teen set (Scott, Laura, Bobby, Anita, Kelsey, Kevin) and the storylines just weren't that compelling. The show bottomed out when McTavish returned in late 98. It was hit and miss for a few years, but was still salvageable until Frons came in and tried to turn it into a Sex and the City clone with all that Fusion nonsense and Zendall/Rylee 24x7. The show never stood a chance from that point on.

R478 Didn't Harold first show up as a thorn in Janet's side when she had Natalie in the well? I remember her hitting him with a rock or something. Can't recall how he ended up with Timmy.

Most of the shows lost between 1 and 2 million viewers to OJ that they just never got back. It was pretty much the final nail for AW and it started GL's slide, because a lot of West Coast stations that pre-empted GL a lot during the trial found they were getting bigger ratings with local news and/or talk, so they either moved GL to the morning or - in the case of Sacramento - took it off all together.

You can tell the changes to storytelling after 1996ish. Everything was ramped up, got much darker, etc.

R481, it was more than 1-2 million, it was a generation that never got hooked on soaps.

Yes, the OJ trial ushered in a whole new way of devouring media. It had to be now, now, now. Real time. Not waiting for the six o'clock news to get the update. It was like the Bronco chase - people wanted to watch it live.

I remember there were some terrific stories on both AMC and OLTL at the time - Noah and Julia falling in love and the Dorian Lord trial. And the OJ coverage and subsequent trial meant lots of postponements.

Didn't Disney acquire ABC in 95 of 96? I noticed a huge shift in AMC. The show became less family/community focused and more and more unrecognizable. It was around then they added the Pine Valley skyline, and people were living in "downtown lofts". I mean, WTF! Maybe Disney wanted it to have more urban feel to be more compatible with OLTL and GH, but that was just ridiculous.

From 1991 to 1995 All My Children was number 2 rated soap (behind Young and Restless) - making it

1 - ABC Highest rated soap (ahead of General Hospital)

2- Highest rated soap produced in NYC

The show had been in a ratings upswing in 1990 with Tad/Dixie mania and the return of Billy Clyde Tuggle. In 1991, Natalie in the well propelled the show to number 2.

here is mortal enemies Erica and Brooke going at it, now this time their daughters (Bianca and Laura) and intertwined, which raises the Brooke/Erica feud a notch higher

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R488 I much preferred McDermott as Scott too. He was well-cast. Lauren Roman (Laura) and TC Warner (Kelsey) wouldn't have been cast probably even 5 years later on AMC or any other soap for not being pretty enough. They recast Laura a few years after writing her off with the more conventionally pretty Laura Allen, and soon ruined the character.

Disney officially acquired ABC in Feb 1996. Here's the Wikipedia info:

quote]On July 31, 1995, The Walt Disney Company announced an agreement to merge with Capital Cities/ABC for $19 billion.[50][146] Disney shareholders approved the merger at a special conference in New York City on January 4, 1996,[146][147] with the acquisition of Capital Cities/ABC being completed on February 9; following the sale, Disney renamed its new subsidiary ABC Inc.[146] In addition to the ABC network, the Disney acquisition integrated ABC's ten owned-and-operated television and 21 radio stations; its 80% interest in ESPN, ownership interests in The History Channel, A&E Television Networks, and Lifetime Entertainment; and Capital Cities/ABC's magazine and newspaper properties into the company.[50]

Cosgrove became a better actor and developed a personality later on after he left the show, but I believe he was pretty wooden when he came on as a typical hunk recast.

Originally Laura was good when she was first on, but they ended up watering her down and making her more of a helpless ingenue. If I remember correctly, they even wrote her off in the Jim Thomenson story where she should have been a key player. The less that is said about the recast of Laura the better. Its too bad, because Brooke could have used a daughter that age for some good story lines.

Kelsey was great, but they really did not know what to do with her once she was no longer a gray character and her issues with Bobby and the baby were resolved. Her story line with Kevin was really well done.

[quote]Cosgrove became a better actor and developed a personality later on after he left the show, but I believe he was pretty wooden when he came on as a typical hunk recast.

Forbes March was equally bland and wooden when he started as Scott. In fact, he only lasted about a year before AMC wrote Scott off.

March had developed a lot more as an actor by the time OLTL cast him as Nash in 2005.

Poor Forbes -- I think Cosgrove was at least efficiently wooden when he first came on, but Forbes was just bad. It did not help that his dad, Stuart, died while Forbes played the part and required dramatic acting. I think they realized how bad he was and just had him play as he was in complete denial.

I really loved Kelsey, good actor and good character, I was so disappointed when she was written off, they really blew it with that character as she could have aged into a compelling adult character. Cecily was a similarly terrific character--thought that might have had more to do with Rosa Nevin than the character as written--and she was another one they just let disappear (I know she came back and was totally defanged and boring), the character and the actress reminded me a lot of the character of Ava (as played by Roya Megnot) from Loving.

Fronsie loved his generic Fusion/SATC ladies.

Kelsey had a lot of potential - esp. when she still had a bit of an edge. I think the actor playing Bobby had left by then, they messed up Scott, and they Kevin story line had run its course, so I wonder if they just decided to scrap that whole young adult set. They might have shifted to Ryan-Gillian-Greenlee by this time. I thought Greenlee showed up to stalk Cosgrove's Scott.

I actually kind of liked Charlie and Cecily. Too bad they did not put a little more effort into their story. By that time, they did not spend much time on the second tier players. The show was shifting utilizing their entire cast - tier one players on 3 to 4 times a week - second tier players 2 to 3 times a week, three or four story lines on during a day --- to having the same people on every single day for weeks at a time. There is a reason why so many of the supporting players introduced never took off in the later years, people would only see them 3 to 5 times in a month.

Do you think Liza and Amanda ever fooled around during their study sessions?

Recast Laura - though the actress who played her was liked by the cast, the viewers HATED her. They absolutely despised the character once Laura Allen started playing her. Then when Laura got Gillian heart, that really broke the camels back with viewers - the hate against the character by the audience reached out this world levels, and TPTB had to wrap up the storyline quickly and send the character of Laura packing.

Was the original Laura Roman that popular? I remember her being liked in the context of the Janet/Pierce storyline, but rather lackluster as a romantic heroine. I remember people saying she came off as too butch. She and Julia Barr had an effortless chemistry as "mother and daughter." Laura Allen was cute, but the writing for the character was all over the map, and they sort of de-aged her to Bianca's age.

Frons should have manned up and applied for work at HBO, then. Ditto JFP and her primetime ambitions.

Frons admitted that compared to GH and OLTL, he never really "got" AMC, so he turned it into a Sex and the City clone. GH and OLTL were easy enough to sum up in one sentence. GH was per Guza "love in wartime" and OLTL was pure over the top camp. AMC was a little more complex. There were social issues, satire, humor, community, family, young love. But it wasn't a high concept show like GH or OLTL, so it couldn't really be explained in a nutshell.

Kelsey was great because everyone hated the Santos' so much. I seem to remember Kelsey giving a sad monologue about how she felt Bobby was in love with her and she had sex with him only to find out he thought of her as a one night stand. Bobby was one of the least sympathetic male characters so you couldn't help but side with Kelsey. I thought Bobby and the youngest Santos were perfect for each other because they were both bores.

Cosgrove really came into his own at Guiding Light. When he's allowed to be sarcastic/humorous, his performances are great and he also just becomes that much hotter to the audience.

When he's got a stick up his ass, as he did at, say, DAYS, he's just average.

The network thought Shane McDermott came off as too sensitive and fey (translation: gay), so he was axed for someone more conventionally hotter. I agree. He wasn't soap leading man material. One hot piece of tail they let slip through their fingers was Micah Alberti, who played the first teen Jamie Martin. He was SO dreamily good looking and had major star quality. He would've gone far with the show had he stayed.

General Hospital = "love in wartime"? If only "wartime" had more to do with everyday struggles and less about the fucking mob.

That's how Guza described the show, with all its mob wars.

I'm home sick working today and I'm working in my building's lounge. All the mommyfraus in the building just descended on the lounge to wait for their kiddos' bus. Evidently the bus is late. One of the mommies just announced that she is missing her stories. What did she mean by that? That she was missing her soaps?

Regarding pets on soaps - GH had a whole storyline devoted to 2 dogs, Foster and Annabelle who got together and had puppies.

The only dog in Pine Valley is that bony bitch Sue Looch!

I remember back in the early 2000s, because OLTL was sandwiched between AMC and GH, it was nicknamed 'Between Heaven and Hell' which, funnily enough, was its working title.

^^^^ That really hurts coming from a such an esteemed thespian as the woman who played Electra Woman.

Ps People thought Sara Michelle was too young to play my daughter? Well, she had Wilford Brimley play her father on that wretched show. (She used to baby sit him when she was 12)).

I was the STAR of my nighttime show OUR HOUSE, which was seen by actual people, not sad Lifetime TV fraus.

But you're consistent, Hooch, I'll give you that.

You've found a way to parlay playing the same cheap looking mobster's wife in all your movies and commercials into a CAREER!

Too bad Dee never joined AMC as Tara Martin as had been rumored. Dee and Sue sharing scenes would've been pure gay nirvana. The subtext to their dialogue wouldn't been delicious.

Oh DH. I don't need pills to be thin. I'm surprised you didn't try for the Midol account on your 70th birthday (Which was in 1979).

Girls, GIRLS ... you're both hard to take for longer than an hour!

I notice Lucci does that Celebrity Autobiography show a couple of times a year. The cast is always a very eclectic mix. Has anyone ever seen it? It seems like it would be either really funny or really cringe worthy.

D.H. I can't believe your self-produced ,video taped somewhere near a Jersey Turnpike off ramp, didn't get one nomination. I mean you almost had me convinced for a second you were not a carpet muncher. I kid. It did not.

....

Sue should be nice and give Dee the number to the person the that did her face work.

Love these two. Special bonus, Myrtle tells off Datalounge at 1:15.

Awwww. Loved them both. We owe much to James Mitchell.

Even though the show was waning, they did pretty good tributes to Myrtle, Phoebe, and Palmer.

I was 12 when I started watching, but those three were among my favorites.

Julia Barr walked off the show when they wanted to drop her to recurring status.

Meanwhile (while they dropped Julia Barr to recurring) they hired Bobbie Eakes to play Krystle (described in the character breakdown as an Erin Brockovich type) to play bombshell, whose body could stop traffic.

Ugh, I fucking hated the Careys. And the Laverys.

Krystal was an interesting character at first, but they turned her into an earth mother type. Bobbie Eakes pulled it off, but the character became dull.

[quote] Krystal was an interesting character at first

She was suppose to be an Erin Brockovich "type"

[quote]Krystal was an interesting character at first, but they turned her into an earth mother type. Bobbie Eakes pulled it off, but the character became dull.

When they first showed her, I thought she might be like original recipe Opal, cheering on her daughter for nabbing a rich heir while she herself was shown to have flings in cheap hotels. I thought she and Adam could have had potential if she had remained a schemer, but instead she became another victim-wife.

Babe also was more interesting as the schemer with flashes of vulnerability instead of being this personification of love that everyone praised.. The strange thing about her is that fairly early on they started to try to present her more as a besieged heroine rather than a scheming vixen, but they did not adjust her story line. She was stealing babies and sleeping with her brother's husband,and we were supposed to cheer her on and think JR was horrible for being angry with her.

[quote]Robin Mattson could often spin crap into gold. The writers tried writing Janet into a corner by making her going against fan faves

True, more often than not she was amazing. And this was Mattson at her best. Robin as Janet from another planet actually makes the character look sane and her actions seem reasonable in the set up between Janet and Trevor and Dena Dietrich as her cynical, hard edged mother Wilma.

That's an old picture of her from December 2007, so she was 60 there. That's a rough looking 60. She obviously spent a lot of time in the sun with little or no sunblock when she was younger.

She looks a little better in more recent photos where she's wearing make-up to cover the sun damage on her face.

Here Aiden tells the truth - wondering why Ryan (Cameron Mathison) has the women in Pine Valley falling in love with him, while he (Aiden) is stuck at home with nothing to do but twiddling his thumbs

Towards the end Aiden went from hero to psycho, and blamed all his problems on Ryan

Go 2:42 into video for Aiden exit

Aidan was hot. Ryan was not.

Should be noted that Aiden Devane is Anna Devane (General Hospital) nephew

And Ryan Lavery is Duke Lavery (General Hospital) cousin

Scroll to 4:20 for a hilarious exchange between Opal and Devon. Dorothy Lyman must've ad libbed her line.

That's definitely an ad-lib. Notice that Tricia Pursley is covering her face to keep from corpsing.

[quote] Robin as Janet from another planet actually makes the character look sane and her actions seem reasonable in the set up between Janet and Trevor and Dena Dietrich as her cynical, hard edged mother Wilma.

It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!

Holy cow, R520 was impossible to watch. They were so wonderful even a few years earlier and now they're simply waiting for the coroner to show up.

Wilma, (who was no fan of Glamorama either) takes her dramatic plunge from the top of the staircase at 38:46.

That clip at r534!

Mr. Jim picked up on Devon's latent lesbianism and gave her that dykey hairdo.

One thing I love about DataLounge: We all seem to be unapologetically Team Janet.

Kate Collins is the definitive Janet, but Robin Mattson was great.

In fact, Robin doesn't get enough credit for her career. She's been on practically every soap, playing a wide range of characters, and excelled at all of them. (Well maybe not so much on Ryan's Hope!)

I met her while she was on AMC, and she was a sweetheart.

Robin was a big reason why I got hooked on All My Children.

Robin Mattson is also a great cook and even hosted her own cooking show. With the proliferation of the Food Network stars, never understood why she wasn't tapped or developed her own show to make herself an even bigger star.

Uhh...excuse me, R539, it was Mr. Jym.

I thought Robin's Janet was better than Kate's when Kate was still playing the dual role. Her Janet was more of a cartoon with and a lot of mannerisms, although it was a fun story. Robin's Janet was more interesting (until she became a Trevor Dillon Stepford wife (his wives did not fare well) and she was mainly seen folding laundry. I thought Kate's Janet was fascinating when she came back at the end and played her as full blown tragically-Gothic crazy. Kate's Natalie was always great.

r501, funny how you shoehorn OLTL into just being camp.

Newflash - AMC was not that complex. It was already a mess by the time Frons came in.

Kate Collins ruled daytime those weeks that Natalie was in the well and Janet was impersonating her.

It does say something that AMC could go toe to toe with Y&R (whose stint at the top of the ratings was still fairly new) and DOOL (and the return of Marlena and Roman) that summer.

I think AMC was a trickier show to define compared with OLTL and GH. OLTL was really expert at pure camp and GH had the mob/action adventure stuff down pat. AMC had traditionally been a hodgepodge of styles that didn't always click with some viewers.

One of the reasons (not the main reason) but one of the reasons AMC moved its production to LA was to appease Rebecca Budig. She had made it clear she wanted to be LA based and had no desire to return to NYC

So instead of Frons moving her to GH, he just moved the entire show to LA! so Budig wouldn't have any excuse to say no to an AMC return, and reunite her with Cameron Mathison.

The Natalie and Janet story made Kate Collins the true lead of AMC and if Lucci had left the show would have remained viable.

Remember Carlos, the Latin lover type guy, who they paired Greenlee with right after Leo died?

Loved those years r552.

R552 Was that the guy who won the sexiest man contest or something?

Yes! OMG I'd forgotten that's how he was introduced...

It must suck a little bit to be Rebecca Budig. Knowing she had a decent amount of power that's now long gone.

Budig, Mathison, HoboThorsten and Minshew all sucked the life out of AMC. They were like the sonny/carly/Jason/sam.

Celebrate Christmas 1982 in Pine Valley, with Jenny, Greg, Langley, Phoebe, Opal, Kent and Erica...and ORIGINAL SILVER KANE.

In 1999 AMC introduced yet another pair of teen star-crossed lovers, this time Scott Chandler and Becca Tyree - and Rebecca Budig was hired as a non-contract player to be the spoiler Greenlee, along with Josh Duhamel as Leo. Greenlee and Leo were devised as the villains to break-up the star crossed lovers

However audiences reacted more to Greenlee and Leo - once the audience reaction was so strong, Scott and Becca were immediately thrown on the backburner, while Leo and Greenlee became the star-crossed duo!

I remember they then brought in Laura who I think we were supposed to cheer for over mean Greenlee (Greenlee even through Laura off a boat and blackmailed Bianca not to tell). They quickly realized Laura worked better as a mentally imbalanced spoiler. Jake actually did work as a spoiler. You pretty much knew it would ultimately end up Greenlee and Leo, but the Jake/Greenlee/Leo triangle worked. I am not sure why they were so obsessed with Greenlee and Ryan post-Leo.

I remember when Greenlee came on as a non-contract player, thinking she was pretty good and really could have worked as a recast Kendell. In some ways she was written more as a young Erica than the eventual recast, at least the early years before they tied her to Ryan and Kendell.

Greenlee had a fat ass.

What is strange about the character of Scott Chandler - when he was played by Daniel Cosgrove AMC had the Scott/Gillian/Kelsey/Ryan quadrangle

Then TPTB fired the actress who played Kelsey and moved Ryan & Gillian to the "twentysomething" crowd and wrote out Scott (as Daniel Cosgrove left the show)

They originally cast Forbes March as the new Tim Dillion, but audience reaction was so negative, they switched tactics and made him the new Scott. So here is Scott still stuck in the young set with the Scott/Becca/Leo/Greenlee quadrangle while Ryan & Gillian (Scott ex-wife!) moved up to the older crowd!

Fuck this show.

If it's any consolation, I preferred you, Sabine, over that Budig creature.

R558- that is AMC at its peak. What an amazing roster of actors and characters. Such a special show in its day.

How were Palmer,Nina and Cliff introduced? Did they have connections to the rest of the canvas? Or was Cortlandt Manor next to the Tyler Estate?

Palmer, Nina, and Cliff were all introduced in the summer of 1979.

Phoebe was recently split from Dr. Tyler, and Langley was interested in her because she had money. But Phoebe was going after Palmer. (His original backstory, before the Pete Cooley story, was that he had lived in Pine Valley at one time and moved back in '79.) He and Nina were having dinner at Phoebe's when Nina got sick, was rushed to the hospital and diagnosed with appendicitis, and Cliff needed to perform the emergency surgery.

Here's the SOD recap from their first appearances.

Taylor Miller would have been a massive star in the studio system era. Kate Collins too. Not sure about Susan Lucci though, maybe she would have been been a budding starlet but I don't see her hitting the big time.

Hi SMG!^

I can confirm AMC didn't move to L.A. for Rebecca Budig. They thought it was going to be cheaper because the could have a bigger studio and spend less money on storage of sets (a HUGE expense in NYC)

Taylor Miller was on The Merv Griffin Show and Merv compared her to a young Elizabeth Taylor. I would have bet she was going to be the one who would have been the crossover star of the show.

They should have cancelled AMC and moved OLTL to LA instead.

R572 - many people that worked there thought the same thing.

[quote] I can confirm AMC didn't move to L.A. for Rebecca Budig.

That wasn't the MAIN reason, but it was like a cherry on the top "Oh we can also get Budig back on the show if we move to LA"

It might have been one of the points made to justify the trip but Budig would have been replaceable by a 1000 girls.

[quote] but Budig would have been replaceable by a 1000 girls

Not in the eyes of Brian Frons

WHET the actress who played Estelle? I was so mad when she got killed off. Donna and Benny went to shit once she gone.

R577 Kate Dezina wanted to concentrate on doing theater - not being a soap actress

A recent-ish pic of Dezina. She aged well.

Long ago, in a galaxy far far away.

About 5 years ago, Dezina was living in France, working as an artistic director in theater over there.

Nice to hear that Kate Dezina has done alright for herself r581. Not that I think about KD but I really loved her during her AMC run.

Estelle was killed off not long after I started watching AMC, so I don't remember much about her other than thinking she had a low-key charm. Oh, and Donna calling her "Stelle".

I always liked Sandy Gabriel's Edna. She was a hoot. I remember reading somewhere ages ago some less than positive words about Sandy. Either she was nuts or a bitch, maybe? I have a vague memory of someone saying she wasn't very pleasant to work with. Anyone heard anything like that?

I don't remember Estelle dying... I can remember she was there and then she was gone. Was it a car accident or something?

I could totally see Sandy being kooky, but I don't know for sure. I know her husband (John) was on Ryan's Hope for years, and their daughter was on "Lost" for a while.

I loved Edna too. Puzzled as to why soaps can't write any oddballs who can manage to stir shit up without breaking the law or being total idoits.

It does look like it was a car accident.

Donna and Benny were married when I started watching, so I missed her, but she was referenced from time to time, and then frequently once Liz Vassey became Emily Ann and her story line was learning the truth about her parents.

Benny reminded me of that Jerry kid from Grey Gardens, the dumb blue collar figure who exists as a flirtation for the grand batshit crazy rich lady.

Estelle died in 1982, right? I ask because Dezina (and Shelley Burch of OLTL) were both in Nine around that time. Speaking of musicals, R587's dead-on post reminds me of when OLTL did the Grey Gardens spoof with Dorian and Blair. I'd be curious to see it being played by Phoebe and Brooke.

r588, Brooke was too down to earth to turn into an Edie... maybe if Erica were Phoebe's daughter, one could see them playing out the Grey Gardens narrative, Pine Valley style.

Or perhaps Erica and Opal. Anyway, here's the OLTL clip. Kassie's pretty good here, even though I'd love to hear her attempt the Little Edie voice. Robin's overall the winner.

Has anyone here ever thought about how it was a lost opportunity that Brooke - who was raped by Eddie Dorrance and had an abortion from the resulting pregnancy - was not more used in the Erica/Bianca/Kendall saga, where rape played such a critical and defining role for the three women?

Who *wasn't* raped in Pine Valley?? Raped:

Erica

Brooke

Natalie

Ruth

Bianca

Gloria

Julia

I'm sure there were more...

R592, ones who weren't raped:

Phoebe Myrtle Mona Ruth

Ruth *was* raped, by Ray Gardner. We can assume Opal might have been at some point prior to her time in Pine Valley. I want to say Liza Colby was during the fallout from her discovering about Marian and Tad. Molestation is a form of rape, so that adds Ceara.

Opal seemed like the product of rape between siblings. The ultimate hick.

Was Dixie raped?

Remember Ms. Gonzales the landlady from the summer of 1982 when Jenny runs away to Hell's Kitchen? She'd call Jenny and Jesse "Yaynee" and "Yesse" and did her best to be in their corner.

Mrs. Gonzales cracked me up. She hated Erica when she came to visit. My favorite moment was during Jenny's ill fated wedding. Greg showed up and she started wildly motioning for him to hurry up and break up the ceremony.

Mona was raped by Satan.

I still can't get over the fact that Jenny and Tony's non-wedding was the same day she learned about Marian and Tad.