Chilling Adventures of Sabrina

Going to binge it tonight! I love the comics that this is based on!

Does pansexual cousin Ambrose get it on with any guys?

R2, yep!

Enjoying it. A+ for Hilda, Zelda, and Madam Satan.

Im enjoying it.

There's a lot more Lesbianism and gay sex than I was expecting.

The new Harvey is hot hot hot!

I have a hard time separating him from Disney though. R6

There's this shirtless scene with him and Sabrina in the third or fourth episode, but I can't find clips of it. And he's 22.

I never saw him as a younger actor that I recall, so I don't have that problem r7!

Ambrose was looking good in his underwear

He needs a bag over his head but I wouldn't complain about that body!

The statue of the Dark Lord in the foyer of the Academy of Unseen Arts is modeled after the drawing of Baphomet from Eliphas Levi's Transcendental Magic from the 19th century.

I love Michelle Gomez (I think she's Scottish?). She's so campy and OTT.

Loved her since Doctor Who R13

I loved her since the beginning scene in Green Wing where she has a breast-off with a coworker

I'm about to start this and hopefully can get through it. There is something about Kiernan Shipka's look that bothers the fuck out of me.

It's the Taylor Swift look with blonde hair, dark eyebrows, and bright red lipstick. Her face is rounder though so it's not as bad as I was expecting. She comes into her own when she shouts in the first episode near the end.

To me the lead looks like an Emma Watson clone. But I think she's adorable and her look is a stark contrast to the darkness around her.

It's nice that another closeted actor is cast as Harvey Kinkle.

After watching half of the season I understand why this isn't on CW. it's pretty graphic and gory. Love the casual and whimsical approach of Satanism.

I believe the Satan statue in the school is inspired by a real statue of Baphomet (but in the real life statue the kids are closer to Baphomet)

I'm finding the pacing incredibly slow.

Can't wait to watch this.

[Quote] After watching half of the season I understand why this isn't on CW. it's pretty graphic and gory.

Plus they already have Charmed.

I love the opening credits.

The blurry background is annoying af.

R18 are you saying that the original Harvey, Nate’s Richert is gay? I had such a crush on him back in the day. It’s a shame how he turned out.

There are points in the first few episodes that Michelle Gomez looks like late era Michael Jackson ....lol

R18 all Baphomets are based on the drawing from Levi. I remembered seeing the children before but I couldn't remember where.

I was never a fan of Ross Lynch when he had peroxide blond hair but he looks so hot in this series.

^ my point was just that it was inspired by that drawing, even if it was inspired by an interpretation of it.

Interestingly the name Baphomet was some scholars mishearing "Mohammed" - it never really existed as a god.

R26 yeah he looks much better clean-cut

It does seem a little slow to me so far. I’m loving the retro soundtrack though. And I think Kiernan is cute— definitely way less annoying than Emma Watson.

I like her red coat too. I like the scenes best when she kicks ass.

Thanks everybody for helping Netflix piss and shit all over memories of me.

#Us,too

Ross’s butt.

Hideous

That blonde hair looks awful on him.

Not complaining about the rest though.

ALL HAIL SATAN !!

I'm amused at the thought of the original Sabrina cast sending the kitschy post about choosing a vacuum over a broom and then sitting down to watch the series.

"They're GAY???"

"Praise SATAN?!!"

This is the first image that appears when Googling “Ross Lynch nude.” Legitimate?

Holy shit, let's hope so!

^^^He's no Kenton Duty.

A pretty great first season. I like that both AHS: Apocaplypse and TCAoS feature a war brewing between witches (women) and warlocks (men).

Love Michelle Gomez as scheming villain and her scenes with Richard Doyle.

An entertaining show, although I wonder why the Harry Potter-hating fundamentalists haven't reacted to a show that makes heroes out of witches who really do worship Satan and perform human sacrifice.

Did Kiernan learn to act?

I love Zelda's hair and her little cigarette holder thing.

I wonder how many kids will be praising the Dark Lord and cursing the False God.

I love the image of Prudence sitting on the throne of skulls.

I loved the MJH Sabrina and find this really disturbing. I hate the way Zelda treats Hilda-horrifying! Plus so much Satanism. Honestly! And, again, why are ALL warlocks deemed to be homosexual?

Yeah I'm surprised they made this version so dark. I'm also surprised more people haven't complained about it yet. I'll keep watching. I'm on episode 3.

Oh jeez, lighten up people.

MJH can suck my dick.

" I wonder why the Harry Potter-hating fundamentalists haven't reacted to a show that makes heroes out of witches who really do worship Satan and perform human sacrifice."

Fundamentalists usually have to choose between buying Alex Jones approved end of times vitamins and Netflix. Eventually, one who can afford both will sound the alarm and all the sister-wives and daughter-wives and brother-sisters will take to Twitter.

One of the sister-wives will eventually post a picture she found on the internet, and claim this is her wonderful heterosexual son who is not interested in the inter-racial gay romance The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina portrays. The ensuing tsunami of criticism will cause her to delete her account and take inventory of her life choices. Sadly, she'll find most of that inventory is damaged.

The characters Prudence and Harvey are awful, because the actors playing them suck. Keirnan just isn't a good choice to play a lead. She can act, but she's dull.

Miss R51 has spoken, y'all! She has shone us her fine tastes and her exquisite eyebrow situation! Joan Crawford all over those motherfuckers, Miss R51!

Relax r52. Jesus.

R51 I completely disagree with you. Prudence is great, as is Harvey and Sabrina. And Ms. Wardwell.

I can't wait for Part II!

Why does Hilda have an English accent and Zelda doesn’t? If Ambrose is Sabrina’s cousin and not Hilda or Zelda’s son, does that mean Vesta will show up at some time as his mother?

The cinematography is annoying as fuck. This must be what having glaucoma is like.

R56 I didn't have any problems with it after I brightened the screen as much as it would go (watching on laptop). It is a pretty dark series though. I love the set design too. Has an otherworldly feel.

"Relax [R52]. Jesus.."

Girl is invoking the name of the savior, y'all! That is Baptist level shit right there. The heavenly shinola! Praise Jesus Buddha and the Wizard of Oz and every motherfucking turd, y'all! It's going to be organic!

Omg stop saying "y'all"

r46, not homosexual but pansexual.

But boys be hot.

Just finished binging and LOVED it.

For those who watched the entire season. Obvs Spoiler alert!

What's the most fucked up scene for you?

For me it's Harvey killing his resurrected brother (you don't even see the act himself, still) and the scene of the witches Thanksgiving where the crazy, zealous witch cuts her own throat to be Queen of the feast.

Ups, sorry. (you don't even see the act itself, still)

I wonder why the show just dropped the murder mystery of the guy at the beginning who gets stabbed to death (later the couple, which adopted him, dies as well)? I thought Luke, Ambrose's lover, turns out to be an actual witchhunter but he seems to be an actual warlock working for Father Blackhood.

Is it just me who thought that Lucy Davis (Hilda) is wearing some really bad prosthetics to make her look fat (the whole chin and throat area looked so strange)?

Spoiler alert

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. When Sabrina burns the souls of the hanged witches with Hellfire, you know we have left MJH territory.

good one, r64.

Y'all.

Love it! Can't wait for season 2

Much better than I expected.

The balance seems off at times. The Harrowing (hazing / bullying) plot seemed too Afterschool special while the rest seemed very mature for a teen show. Ross Lynch was pretty great in the scenes where his character had panic attacks triggered by the mine.

Love the very special episode where the Spellmans are trapped in the house with the nightmare demon. Zelda's nightmare was pretty revealing.

R63 I thought the same in the first episode - she looked like she was wearing a prosthetic when she first appeared. But it may have been just a bad angle or a reshoot or something.

I hope the mystery of the stabbed boy gets picked up in Part II. I assumed they left some threads to pick up later but who knows. I wonder if the first three episodes were done by different people - they seem a bit out of place compared to the rest.

R66 = rebel

[quote]I hope the mystery of the stabbed boy gets picked up in Part II. I assumed they left some threads to pick up later but who knows.

I get that they had to drop it because of the stuff Sabrina was doing which eventually involved everyone. I don't think it was entirely dropped though because there were many references to "witch hunters" (who Ambrose thought did the crime originally) throughout the series to set them up for probably next season.

I wouldn't be surprised if Harvey's family are still hunting witches and we'll loop back around to the original witch death with his father or grandfather having done the deed but that's just a guess.

[quote]I wonder if the first three episodes were done by different people - they seem a bit out of place compared to the rest.

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. There was a significant tone change between the first two or so episodes and the rest of the series. I wondered if they used those first two to sell it then scaled everything back a bit later on. After those first ones the show seemed less serious and more goofy.

[quote] I wouldn't be surprised if Harvey's family are still hunting witches and we'll loop back around to the original witch death with his father or grandfather having done the deed but that's just a guess.

And who played Harevey's grandfather? None other than Michael Hogan from MTV's Teen Wolf where he played Gerard, boss of the monster hunting family Ardent.

Regarding "dropped" plots. I don't think they will let Rosalind actually go blind on the show if she is plagued by a witch's curse. So they will deal with this in the second season as well and maybe she will still keep her cunning which is her family's legacy.

How come Ambrose could leave the Spellman property in the last episode? I thought he was only allowed to go to the academy as part of a work release?

There are times he astral projects and it appears that he is off the property.

Episode 1

I like the lensing. Often all edges are out of focus.

How did that cadaver suddenly appear in the embalming room. There was no set up or did I miss it?

This was shot in the Spring. Sabrina and boyfriend go to an apple orchard and the trees are in BLOOM!. And some poor production assistants had to tie apples here and there. It's pretty funny and ridiculous. Then there is a sign "Old Tree!". Well, duh!

The visual effects are taken from the comic book. It has psychedelic influences, such as the peripheral views being distorted and also occasionally uses a sort of double-exposure effect to show that while the witches look young and pretty, they’re all actually decrepit ancient ghouls who eat human flesh. The Netflix series is a lot less gruesome from what I’ve seen so far, but I am pleasantly surprised that it brings in some of the trippy visuals.

The comic features actual devil-goat-on-Puritan sex. And cannibalism.

When is it supposed to take place? No smartphones, just landlines. No internet?

r77, it was a magical orchard. I liked seeing apples and blossoms on the same trees. It gave me a mortal moment.

R80 The comic is set in the 1960s, and the styles, groovy lingo etc of the show echo that...the cultural climate of Greendale on the TV series, or at least the girls who live there, is very 2018.

I like all the slightly disturbing paintings in the background of a lot of the shots. You can't always tell what they are but they are thematic.

It's basically the same as Riverdale R82

Part II will be coming out next year - it's still the first season, they just broke it in half, like they did with Disenchanted. We saw the mid-season cliffhanger.

r85, are you sure about that? IMDB claims that season features only the ten episodes Netflix released and the episodes of next year are season two.

What you describe is something like MTV's Teen Wolf where a 20 plus episode season is broken into two parts and one block is aired in one part of the year (say October) airing one episode per week and the second part starts later (March, the next year) airing one episode per week and then have another break until the new season starts (in, say, October).

R86 Sure, it's called Part I in Netflix. They did the same thing with Disenchanted. There's ten more episodes that will come out as Part II. It's a 20 episode season.

I've just seen the first two episodes and love it! A+ to the cast. And I love this very classic take on witchcraft. Signing the devils black book is what 17th and 18th century Americans and Europeans actually believed in!

r80

Ambrose was using a laptop in one of the first eps and Harvey had a smartphone around ep 6 when Sabrina called him really late

Denying Ambrose access to Grindr is really the cruelest thing the Church of Night could do to him.

It does have a timeless quality to it though r89. Like the movie theater in episode 1 or the school they go to.

Teen romance (especially straight teen romance) usually makes me gag but I find Sabrina and Harvey adorable

Witches have no need for technology.

r90

he had to rely on old school paper gay porn mags!!!

Also Sabrina uses a Polaroid camera in episode 2

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I think Ricxhard Coyle is hot and his Father Blackwood is in danger as Lilith (Gomez) knows that Sabrina is now one of the 4 witches that can summon Hellfire.

Michelle Gomez is a delight.

Liked this more than I thought I would.

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[quote] I think Ricxhard Coyle is hot and his Father Blackwood is in danger as Lilith (Gomez) knows that Sabrina is now one of the 4 witches that can summon Hellfire.

Didn't Sabrina confide in Mrs. Wardell / Lilith and told her of her plans to go after Satan himself?

I think Lilith is double crossing both Father Blackwood AND Satan!

I like Justin Dobies as Tommy, Harvey's brother who looks out for Harvey and protects him from their dad.

The cars are mostly vintage. Half the clothes are vintage style. I suppose its now but "timeless" now somehow.

Kiernan Shipka is cute. In a few shots with shitty lighting, one sees her face is covered with tiny bumps, I don't know the name of it. Not acne. Also, she sometimes sounds TOO MUCH like Lena Dunham. I guess this is a curse of her generation. I hope she isn't a huge fan of Dunham and somehow taking her voice and inflections.

Ross Lynch can do everything it seems. Must be fun to be him at 22. I like his boxer's nose. Here's a younger pic where you can see all his attractions.

r97, post again when you have watched all 10...

Ross Lynch is having a killer career and finding very steady work. He went from a successful Disney show to that acclaimed Jeffrey Dahmer Biopic and has gotten good reviews for this. He's one of the most consistent actors of his age group

It's very good, although it was hard to forgive Sabrina for the spider spell she cast on her principle.

r99. I already did. He kept protecting Harvey beyond, well, you know. Rather tragic.

And Ross is a hot pop star!

r101. LOL that's harmless compared to what she does later on. It's kind of intruiging how Michelle Gomez's character corrupts Sabrina and leads her astray and her aunts don't have a single clue about it.

I’ll just mention that I think it’s pretty lame and shitty for someone to interject commentary about “tiny bumps” on the face of the teen star. She’s 18 years old, for fuck’s sake. By all means, let’s mock a beautiful young girl’s complexion for no reason at all.

I’m on the dream episode and the whole thing is tedious. I can’t wait for it to end so that we can get back to the story.

R106, that was the worst episode so far. But episodes 7-10 are terrific.

Lighten up you twat at R105. I didn't mock her. I said I noticed she has these bumps. This is DL by the way, and not a safe space.

Exactly, r108.

Skitter off to wherever you came from r105. You're not wanted here.

Shame there won't be any riverdale crossovers. I think they could be quite fun

R110 Riverdale has witches.

R111 I mean with the show Riverdale on the CW. In the Archie comics, Sabrina occasionally hangs out with Betty and Veronica, or sometimes one of their gang come to Sabrina to ask for some magical assistance

Kiernan Shipka is pretty remarkable. She's managed to graduate from child star to adult star, but she's only had a brief awkward period (Feud) when she wasn't very good.

Kiernan and Ross are both great, but I really don't think there's a weak acting job in the show

It's weird to me that for the first time in his life Bronson Pinchot is actually hot on this show. He was too disproportionately muscular during his "Step by Step" days, and then he got fat; but now he's kind of a zaddy.

Zelda and Hilda are both great too. Even though I found the dream episode tedious as well, the part where Zelda makes roast Night child and Hilda makes an onion-free vegetable cake (or whatever it was) was hilarious. I also liked when Zelda's suddenly turned on by the high priest wanting some S&M.

R115 I was surprised that was Bronson Pinchot, he does look pretty good for his age. He played sleazy pretty well. Of course (spoilers) now he's dead. Although I suppose he could come back as a ghost or something.

And I guess Hilda's new boss is really a vampire or something, which is going to be interesting, I'm sure.

I'm surprised none of the witches could detect Madam Satan in the body of the teacher.

I was wondering if Sabrina was going to throw Satan's book in the fire in the last episode, but I didn't see any way for that to happen logically.

I'm curious what the old cast of the pun-heavy Sabrina the Teenage Witch REALLY think of the new show. I vaguely remember Melissa Joan Heart being a fundie or something?

I was home sick Friday and binged the whole thing. LOVED it. Kiernan is really great in this--loved her as Sally Draper, so I'm glad to see her succeed in something else. Her friends were annoying me at first but then both of their stories got interesting.

It sort of made me think of a BUFFY for the new age, but much darker, which was appreciated.

Spoiler Alert in link

I'm not sure that was a HUGE crossover, considering he was a fairly minor character who died in the other show. Content farm writers are such drama queens.

Seems like more of an easter egg than anything.

[quote]I'm curious what the old cast of the pun-heavy Sabrina the Teenage Witch REALLY think of the new show. I vaguely remember Melissa Joan Heart being a fundie or something?

As long as the show somehow gets them more attention by reminding people the original tv series exists, I'm sure they'll like it just fine. If they play their cards right, it's likely at least one of them will get a cameo in Season 2 as a nod to fans.

Berlanti loves his cameos with the original John Wesley Shipp on the Flash and Teri Hatcher/Dean Cain/Helen Slater all having appeared on Supergirl.

This is where I always felt the original cast of Charmed screwed up. They openly were against a reboot/continuation but they should have realized it was going to happen anyway and played nice.

Even MacKenzie Phillips has a recurring role on Netflix's version of "One Day at a Time."

FWIW: Melissa is more of a Candice Cameron fundie if she is a fundie because it's not apparent if you actually hang out with her.

R73 I laughed when i saw him show up playing a hunter again.

R86 Hopefully splitting the seasons works out better for them than it did for Teen Wolf.

R122 I can't really picture MJH on this particular version of the show.

So Ross Lynch takes his shirt off once, and that's it for him being naked?

[quote] This is where I always felt the original cast of Charmed screwed up.

I think they were expecting something from the new showrunners. Either some glorified producer / consulting credit, cash, or a cameo / regular guest appearances coming their way in exchange for their public approval.

[quote] They openly were against a reboot/continuation but they should have realized it was going to happen anyway and played nice.

A couple of years back there was talk that Murder, She Wrote would be re-booted starring Octavia Spencer. When asked about it Angela Lansbury voiced their disapproval. Don't know if it was because of her statement or some behind the scenes problem but the reboot was nixed a short while after.

Ok, guys. Fess up: How many of you are busy buttering up a friend so you can go as Aunt Zelda (with her iconic cigarette holder) and your friend as Aunt Hilda for Halloween?

Aunt Zelda = This years's Barb from Stranger Things?

I'm not gay - or straight - or thin - enough to dress in Zelda drag, but she does have an iconic look! I wonder how many kids will start smoking just so they can use a cigarette holder like that.

I bet there are a lot of girls dressing as Sabrina though.

I could go as Harvey in his miner's hat...

R125 yeah I got the impression the Charmed cast was more pissed at being excluded than actually having an issue about the reboot. Although I'm happy that we don't have to see any more Grumpy Holly Marie Combs being a cunt or Alyssa Milano's breasts and tattoos.

I grew up reading Archie and I never liked Melissa Joan Hart as Sabrina for some reason. I think it was her expressions and her overly cutesy way of doing things. I met her in passing at an awards show and she was high as a kite and kind of aloof verging on rude...the funny thing is that it was an anti-drug awards show, so it seemed kind of assholish to show up smelling like weed. But whatever.

I like Shipka’s Sabrina a lot better. She actually has some qualities that remind me of Hart’s version, but I like Shipka’s interpretations better. This show does feel greatly inspired by both Buffy and Riverdale, but also equally by the Archie original comics and the sitcom. It’s very well done. I’m so happy for the success of Archie Comics nowadays!

One thing that does strike me as just another surreal aspect of the 2010s that makes me feel like the whole world has been turned upside down and inside out: Archie Comics always has been known as the most wholesome, even hokey (although the stories were smart and based on human behaviours), sometimes even verging on Christian parables without directly addressing religiosity. This show presents a positive view of SATANISTS! It’s extraordinary that this would be made at all by a major entertainment production company, much less created by Archie Comics! I think it’s kind of awesome that we’ve come so far and there’s no outcry from fundamentalist Christians about celebrating Satan and witchcraft. Harry Potter is still banned from schools for witchcraft (certainly with no suggestion that the witches are serving Satan), and here it’s just a cutesy take on all kinds of evil. This only could have happened post-2016.

I saw the pilot of the new Charmed and it only makes me love Sabrina all the more. Charmed forces 2018 social justice themes and related jokes into every line of dialogue and into plots. I turned it off before it was over because all the characters were just serving the themes instead of seeming like human beings. Sabrina is the opposite; all the feminist stuff built into it is organic and it is completely natural to the storytelling.

[Quote] I met her in passing at an awards show and she was high as a kite and kind of aloof verging on rude...the funny thing is that it was an anti-drug awards show, so it seemed kind of assholish to show up smelling like weed. But whatever.

Lol

R131 Stoned? You tell me.

R129 I actually think the view of Satanism is quite negative. It is shown as having a lot of the worst traits of Christianity, like telling woman what they can do with their bodies and encouraging brutality. And Satan is shown as unambiguously evil

Zelda is a rather interesting character. Her ego is so fragile she needs to make herself big and superior by making her sister feel small and inferior. Of course her nightmare involves her losing and her sister winning and then losing her sister altogether.

The look on Zelda's face was priceless when Hilda tells her she's moving out in the final episode.

I found the idea that the church sanctions the abuse of younger sisters fascinating

R133 OK, perhaps I should have said Satanism is treated casually and is “normalized” in this series. This is still by and large a Christian nation, and it’s funny to me that you say Satanism is made to look bad because it’s made to resemble Christianity...ha!

Yes, there’s plenty of non-didactic criticism of all kinds of church culture in this show, and I appreciate it for that. Sabrina standing up against the ritual sacrifice had me questioning how dark the series is willing to be (the comic is much darker, believe it or not), but I also appreciate it because plots like that certainly reinforce thinking young people’s inclinations to question their own churches’ archaic rituals.

As it turns out, fundamentalist witches are little different than fundamentalist Christians. The only real difference is that the Satan-worshipping witches in this show are not hypocritical and are actually being “good” in the sense of serving their master by doing evil things, whereas Christians defend their evil deeds by twisting their religious teachings into perverted, evil versions of what they are supposed to be. I like that Sabrina is a rebel against the dogma of her family’s religion and even her dark god, and that...well, given that rebellion is a fundamental tenet of satanism, she’s actually being a good satanist by refusing to do the evil things she is told to do.

Also, Ryan Murphy should have his writers taking notes from this show. It is darker than American Horror Story. The witches feel like real people, not bitchy-bitch stereotypes. Their magic feels more authentic to the story. Even the repeated deaths and revivals of Hilda—my primary complaint about AHS Coven, that the witches died but remained alive—is perfectly comfortable in this series and it doesn’t lessen the dramatic stakes at all. The writing of Sabrina is SO good—a delicate balance of teen drama, wickedness and a little bit of humor without feeling juvenile or overly campy. It really, really puts American Horror Story to shame.

I thought the scene in Feast of Feasts was heartbreaking when Sabrina and her witch friends meet an old witch in the woods who ran away, because as an infant a predecessor of Father Blackwood wanted to rape her right before her ritual sacrifice (the girl was apparently ok with the sacrifice part but not with the sex).

R137 when Hilda came back covered in dirt and blood the look on her face was so horrifying.

I'm glad the dream scared Zelda (in all likelihood) from killing her sister again.

R138 Me too. It’s so good. That witch looked like a wilderness witch should look, complete with the buggy eye like the Snow White witch, and yet she was so humanized and believable. Really heartbreaking and also reinforcing the very 2018 feminists-will-break-the-patriarchy movement without taking us out of the story at all.

Yeah, R139, the only reason I suffered through the bad dream episode is because I realized it was there to lend insights into the motivations of all the Spellman characters. I think it was tedious, but an important part of the characterizations. I sensed that Zelda isn’t as evil as her evil deeds against Hilda already, but the confirmation was comforting.

I have to add that this incarnation of Sabrina feels very psychedelics-inspired, which is fascinating to me for a ton of reasons. But one aspect of that influence is that every magical event seems to refine the interpretations of reality and to lend insights for characters into why they do what they do—which is what psychedelics can do. This series feels like it was written by someone very experienced with ayahuasca.

R136 The comic is indeed much darker but I actually prefer this because that Sabrina is portrayed as morally ambiguous while this one is a ray of sunshine in an otherwise grim story. It works

R142 And that’s what I appreciate about this and Riverdale. Everything has changed about the stories—environment, events, some relationships—everything except the characters of the characters. Even back in the hokey 70s and 80s comics, Sabrina was always a twinkling Samantha Stevens type. A little bit of mischief, more insight than everyone around her, can play tricks when she’s bored but not at anyone’s expense. Making her a “half witch” may seem derivative of Harry Potter, but it’s a good way to explain why she’s inclined to use dark powers for light purposes. I do like, too, the complexity inherent in the “good” evil people following orders of the dark lord, but the ones who really understand the nature of satanism being naturally comfortable with independence, rule breaking, and doing beneficent things even when that is “bad” in the context of standing for evil values.

So did Luke only like Ambrose because of the love potion? And did he kill Connor and his parents? Also, I thought witches did't fall in love the way mortals do?

Can we talk about the brilliant casting of Melissa Gomez as Madame Satan? Her acting is great, and she looks exactly like the original character.

Ambrose is flamboyant, went to Oxford, published a book of poetry...Milo Yiannopoulos is flamboyant, went to Cambridge (failed, dropped out), published a book of poetry (mostly Tori Amos lyrics, uncredited). COINCIDENCE? Or is this proof Milo is a witch?!

I grew up reading the comics and I find it interesting that they switched the personalities of Hilda and Zelda. But I'm not really sure why.

[quote]I got the impression the Charmed cast was more pissed at being excluded than actually having an issue about the reboot.

The Charmed actresses got pissed off at some statements that the producers made calling the reboot fierce, funny, and feminist to which Holly Marie Combs responding that the original was all those things and more.

R147 The chubby one has to be the jolly, daft one. Hollywood 101.

Luke was attracted to Ambrose when they first met but not enamored. I’m glad it was confirmed that Luke is gay before he’s given the love potion.

Didn't Luke get really interested Ambrose after he found out that Ambrose took in the dead boy's familiar? And after the hookup the lizard is dead and Luke is gone? However Zelda mentioned that the familar dies soon after its master died. Still a strange conincidence.

Ross Lynch, like Garrett Clayton, should never age. He's not meant to be an old man. He's meant to be an eternal twink.

.....

I just watched the first few eps yesterday. I am enjoying it, the cast really sells this thing, it is pretty strong across the board. There was some clunky exposition dialog but I guess that can't be helped. The timeline threw me for a loop when I saw a laptop, so it is set in the modern day yet it has a strong period piece aesthetic. Ok.

I am already crushing on Ambrose, the actor is very charismatic and it was great to see him into the mansex. Is there a fourth sibling with the aunts and Edward? Trying to figure out his exact relationship.

R150 The trick definitely killed the iguana to keep secrets from getting out.

I never read the comics this is based off so I wasn't expecting the literal witches are devil worshippers who have sold their souls to Satan angle. It is definitely true this show could never be on the CW or any broadcast network. It shows you how society is changed that we can do topics like that without much controversy.

Also does anyone think there should be more magic? I get special effects cost money but I would expect her aunts and Ambrose to use magic all the time, but there isn't really much casual magic so far. I mean why chop vegetables when you have telekinesis to do it for you.

R153 Yeah, Archie Comics is *all in* on the Satan thing. Sabrina’s nemesis going back decades was “Madame Satan,” and that’s about as deep as it went, I think. The new iteration of the comics draws from Satanic practice and philosophy, Aleister Crowley influence, etc.

In the comics, the setup was different than it appears here. The parental story (This COULD turn out to be a spoiler, so don’t read further on the off chance it is) in the comics is that Madame Satan was in love with Sabrina’s father, and he rejected her to be with Sabrina’s mother. So Madame Satan threw herself into a lion’s den at a zoo and was eaten by lions (graphic images included in the comic) and was sent to hell for her suicide, where she became a demon. Meanwhile, Sabrina’s mother knowingly married the warlock but (I think I am remembering this correctly.) didn’t want her daughter conscripted to Satan and she and Sabrina’s father, the high priest, fought about that. He ended up casting a spell on Sabrina’s mother to make her insane, and she is locked up in an asylum. (Later on, Madame Satan comes back and possesses Sabrina’s teacher, and she seeks revenge based in jealousy on Sabrina’s mother, but finding her so pathetic in the asylum, instead of killing her, Mme Satan restores her sanity and her memory—so she is trapped there remembering the satantic witches who stole her daughter (the true story), which of course sounds insane to everyone. So it’s her own living hell.

I won’t go into the comic story involving Harvey and Sabrina’s father but it’s probably way too wild to have a place in this show.

R154 I don’t think that this is “Bewitched” type of domestic witchcraft. Their witchcraft is based in the religious practice, and so it involves casting spells, conjuring, herbalism, various shamanic-type practices that all require some level of work and study. I don’t think they’ll ever twitch their noses to whip up a casserole. It’s not that kind of witchcraft.

This show feels so fully imagined to me. Jessica Lange has such an AHS fanclub here on the DL, but for my money Miranda Otto is fully immersed in her character and gives a brilliant performance in what should be a silly teen horror-fantasy. There’s nothing “I’m spooky!” about what she’s doing. She’s just playing it straight as a devil-loving witch.

Wow! Episode nine now...necromancy. Sabrina, you a witch.

R153 in the comics Sabrina has two other witch aunts who don't live with them. One is supposed to be the oldest of all the siblings and Zelda and Hilda both openly fear her

Watched the first 5 episodes. Spent nearly the entire first episode experimenting with the settings on my TV because the show looks awful. It's not just the edges being out of focus, the series is just too dark, literally. I decided to stick with the recommended HDR settings but upped the gamma by about 30%. Still doesn't look great but is watchable.

The show is pretty good so far, but it's amazing how Sabrina doesn't get to use any powers during the first half of the season.

She does the spider thing to her principal and messes with those boys in the mine. Granted she doesn't do those by herself.

She’s a teenager who is just coming into her powers. The reason this show is so good is its emphasis on characters and relationships instead of special effects and gimmicky tricks.

Interesting discussion among Wiccans. According to the thread, the premise of the show intentionally interprets witchcraft through the perspective of puritans and not Wicca, hence the witches being in service to Satan, the goat gods, sacrifices, etc. Some of the wiccan people here are irked, but it’s interesting that most of them appear to have a sense of humor and get that it’s fiction and not a condemnation of their beliefs. Can you imagine Christians, Muslim or Jewish people seeing a similar perverse interpretation of their beliefs and not freaking out about it?

R98

I skipped to the end and don't know if your question was answered. But apparently Shipka is VERY allergic to cats -- or at least one of the three cats who plays Salem. She found this out the hard way while shooting the show. So the bumps on her face are likely to be hives from actually snuggling with cats. Apparently you can also tell she is goofed out on allergy meds in some early scenes shot after they found out what was going wrong.

The show does love this fish eyes blue effect r161, they use it A LOT.

Blur*

this is way better than the bullshit they did with the charmed reboot

R166 The visual distortions...I’m tellin’ ya, this is inspired by psychedelics.

I also love that Salem doesn’t talk, and knowing what he looks like as a goblin. It changes everything.

[quote]I met her in passing at an awards show and she was high as a kite and kind of aloof verging on rude...the funny thing is that it was an anti-drug awards show, so it seemed kind of assholish to show up smelling like weed. But whatever.

As an aside, R129, this was exactly my experience at another event although I can't say she was an asshole to us.

It was good seeing the original cast again.

“The high priest has appointed me directress of the satanic choir.”

Michelle Gomez is Scottish. Who knew? Miranda Otto is Australian, Lucy Davis, Richard Coyle and Chance Perdomo are English. Interesting that the Brits use their native accents and the nonbrits use American-ish accents.

Did the dream demon remind anyone else of The Trickster from Brainscan?

I guess I'll watch this after I finish Hill House. I like how it went so unambiguously dark it has people clutching their pearls. I hate cutesy, which is what I thought it'd be.

R174 Parts of it are cute, but it’s not cutesy.

It’s amazing how well the original cast of Sabrina the Teenage Witch as held up...except for Harvey.

"...Sabrina" uses the same time technique as "Gotham" and "Riverdale". It is sort of taking place in multiple eras/decades without really defining the exact year. I think it works for these comic book shows. It's a period piece without being a period piece and not beholden to the boundaries and restrictions of any one time period.

r163 Considering "wicca" as a religion has only been around since the seventies when it was invented by Gerald Gardner (based on older European sources plus some of his own stuff) I don't think that there's one official take on witchcraft that has any validity. There are many practicing witches who do use Satan/Lucifer as a god, although they aren't "wiccans" and may not necessarily be Satanists (which is also a recently-invented religion).

Given these characters are immortal I figured they were all raised in the UK before they decided to move over to the new country of America r172. Thus the accents.

Thanks r159. So presumably one of them is Ambrose's mother.

r159 is that Aunt Irma? I remember also an Aunt Vesta.

I agree with whoever said Kieran sounds like Lena Dunham— sometimes it was so spot on it took me out of the scenes. Other than that, she’s a really good actress and a smart choice of casting. I like her better than Dove Cameron, who was rumored at one point.

Ross and I are actually the same age, and I remember him on Austin and Ally, which is the best show Disney Channel has ever put out. So glad he’s getting good work.

You're 22? Do you take photos of your food?

I never watched "Girls" and haven't really paid attention to Lena Dunham so I don't have that issue.

The two girlfriends of hers are a bit boring so far - they didn't really develop the whole normal-school aspect of it very well.

R182 Never. Funny enough, my 51 year old mom does all the time

There is an inherent dichotomy in Sabrina that I find interesting.

She helped the souls of the hazed dead children get revenge. Both sweet and evil.

She completed the destruction of the 13s souls to protect her city and friends with Hellfire. Good and bad.

I adore her.

Madame Satan needs to watch her satanic ass...

It's Mademoiselle Satan!

Everything has a price. I love that after all the cop outs Sabrina had to face some real consequences. Again, American Horror Story writers could learn a lot by watching this series.

[quote]It's a period piece without being a period piece and not beholden to the boundaries and restrictions of any one time period.

I read the pilot script and the aunts were receiving a body of a man who was just killed in Vietnam and if I recall Harvey's brother was over there as well. It was set in the 60s but contemporous. I guess they nixed dating the era.

You can say it is set in "any era" but there are smartphones and laptops, the technology does make it clear it is modern. It just has an old school look to everything for the visual effect.

Greendale has a lot in common with Mayberry.

R190 And, um, Riverdale. Which has existed since the 40s...long before Mayberry. :)

[quote]You can say it is set in "any era" but there are smartphones and laptops, the technology does make it clear it is modern. It just has an old school look to everything for the visual effect.

I think you are being too literal. Smartphones and laptops don't make it modern, any more than the old school phones and TVs make it period. They have all the bases covered.

All the cars I have seen are vintage. They look 60s

R193 It’s like Riverdale. I always wanted to know as an Archie reader where Riverdale is. It’s just Riverdale, USA. It’s in no particular state and no particular time. Like the Riverdale series, the visuals and setting remind us constantly that the show is a comic book world, not the real world. There’s no point in trying to ground it in reality. It’s self-consciously a comic book world.

It's completely drenched in estrogen -- the femmiest show ever. Well, almost ever. Miss Murphy's horror shows are even femmier.

A show that's campy, but well-written and understands logic and dramatic stakes. Suck it, AHS Coven.

Yessssssss R196

A show about witches is drenched in estrogen r195?! What a crazy world!

Surely there are a multitude of other places you can discuss your hatred of women.

Seriously R195, you got Entourage, Game of Thrones, Mad Men, endless male points of view for eons. And then along came Ryan Murphy with a manufactured, unconvincing gay camp perspective. As a gay man with some fantastical ideas, Sabrina is exactly what I have been longing for. Smart, fun and daring—and respectful of women.

Well there DOES appear to be a witches vs. warlock fracas brewing on Sabrina. Can the womens' forces of darkness overcome the mens'?! Stay tuned!

R200 You bet your broomstick the witchy women are gonna come out on top.

[quote]Surely there are a multitude of other places you can discuss your hatred of women.

Oh, the irony!

Man, the frau retort is so played out, I knew that would your reply.

I'm a gay guy and a guarantee I've been here longer than you. Anyway, enough of this, not letting one poster derail a thread.

[quote]As a gay man with some fantastical ideas, Sabrina is exactly what I have been longing for.

Ew, really? It's just a matter of time before they start casting spells of mug cradling, and unearthly spirits begin laughing at salad.

Sabrina could be cursed with fibromyalgia or Morgellon's! Maybe mug cradling can be a witch counterspell for it. She must go on a Quest to find the Mug of Cain, which has been lost for generations!

Sabrina is on long term disability with an environmental illness.

Wow, some extreme woman hating in here. Thank Satan for the block button.

Sabrina should become a Boniva spokesperson.

R207 I think everyone's just riffing off of it for fun.

R209 They do throw around words like intersectional and patriarchy without irony and include a scene of masculine shaming by having boys make out with each other, which I would have found distasteful had I not been admiring their young bodies and packages.

And Sabrina's young friend looks neither like a boy or a girl. In fact, I couldn't tell if it was a boy pretending to be a girl or a girl pretending to be a boy at first.

R210 The boys were only being “shamed” because they had been abusing the boyish girl. And as it turned out, one of the boys was in love with another. It wasn’t about shaming them for being men; it was about teaching them empathy. Oy.

The ghost called her a boy, didn't she? I thought that was odd. Perhaps she's a hermaphrodite.

R211 That’s the whole point! The kids know her as a girl who is boyish, but the blind grandmother “sees” her as a boy. So her spirit is a boy.

I thought it was the ghost, not the blind grandmother.

[quote][R210] The boys were only being “shamed” because they had been abusing the boyish girl. And as it turned out, one of the boys was in love with another. It wasn’t about shaming them for being men; it was about teaching them empathy. Oy.

Loved it when Hilda revealed that one of the guys had a thing for the other.

You could definitely look at that as gay shaming. Twitter has freaked out over less.

I love how the frau on this thread is freaking because a few of us are mocking the show's femmy SJW preachiness.

Yeah I saw a few comments of people thinking it it was gay-shaming, but really it is more about taking advantage of their own homophobia

Did anyone else notice this Rosemary’s Baby reference in episode 1?

Ms Wardwell (before she’s taken over by Madam Satan) brings the injured woman to her home and says she will take her to see Dr Saperstein in the morning.

Six Times “Chilling Adventures of Sabrina” Paid Tribute to Classic Horror Films, Including ‘Elm Street’!

R220 That’s in the comic, too. When the witches invoke their ancestors, they also name a lot of historic figures (including Anne Boelyn, which I thought was funny), and the witches’ one law is “Do what thou wilt,” which is from Aleister Crowley. There’s a mix of historic and fictional references to witchcraft throughout, but again somehow it works a lot more seamlessly than it does in American Horror Story.

I’d love it if the Castavets showed up on this show.

r221 Harvey lying on the bed with his midriff showing was hot hot hot! You just want to jump on him. I'm jealous of Shipka for getting to make out with him multiple times.

I don’t find Harvey very attractive, but they make a cute teen couple.

Sabrina non-binary actor hints at their character's gender journey on the show

I love Harvey's lips. So sexy.

I don’t know why everyone’s so interested in the guy who plays Harvey (hate that name!). He’s so bland.

Ambrose, Luke, and Nicholas Scratch are way better looking.

I preferred Tommy more than Harvey. Was so sad when he died. Plus he has major gay face in certain photos

Did someone say Tommy DIED...???

I tire of these kinds of shows, like DC's "Titans," where some bony teen girl is a demon, Satan's girlfriend or the antichrist.

The owners of the conglomerates that own these networks and shows are deliberately making programming to obscure the truth, that the true evil ones are actually old white straight male billionaires.

R229, I was upset about Tommy. That hairy chested miner deserved more screen time.

r230 yes and his soul was eaten. So he likely won't be coming back, ever! :-(

wardwell is giving me Meg Foster vibes.

I feel like Ms. Wardwell's hair is a tad TOO big.

That is her own hair.

Is Ross Lynch gay? Do we have proof?

Ross broke up with his girlfriend last year

R236 you realize that she's fifteen years younger in that clip right

That clip is my most favorite clip on YT.

She still has a fabulous body.

I did not realize that your qualm was with the hair and makeup people.

I believe the print character has the same comic book voluminousness to the coif.

So I just got to the harrowing episode which reminded me of a question.

Okay. They sign their soul to Satan and they are given near-immortality, we saw with Hilda that they are even resurrected once killed. But obviously they can be killed, Sabrina's parents were killed and apparently all these students were killed in the hazing ritual. What are the rules? They don't seem well defined.

On an unrelated note the side plots with the humans are boring. I almost laughed at the melodramatic "the mines?!?!" business with Harvey.

The mines end up being much more than a side plot.

Yes R242 it was a very neat and tidy storyline all season...everything that was introduced to the story had something significant to do with the overall plot.

R241 Zelda states that each time they die it takes longer for them to resurrect and eventually they just stay dead.

And they explained that Hilda’s resurrection is possible because of some regenerative aspect of the soil Zelda buries her in in their yard. So there are some parameters. The witches are not immortal; they live far longer than human beings as long as they hold power. When their powers are stripped by the Dark Lord, they age rapidly. I do think they shouldn’t use the term “mortals” for human beings since the witches ultimately are mortal too.

R245 I agree about the term mortal it's confusing. But that's what they call them in the comics and old show. In the MJH show I think witches are straight up immortal so it made more sense there.

R180 Thank you it was Irma I was talking about and couldn't remember. And if I remember right Aunt Vesta was actually a great aunt of Sabrina's rather than one of her father's sisters. I think she was another one Hilda and Zelda feared. She once turned Zelda into a bush or something for years because Zelda woke her from a nap.

Yes I get they aren't officially immortal, just long-lived, eventually they will die of old age. That isn't confusing.

I am confused on the death thing. So did Hilda only resurrect because she was purposely buried to be brought back? Outside of special circumstances do witches just die like humans do?

In the MJH show they say witches live to be around 650 I think? Zelda was around 500 I think. Although they throw in some confusing flashbacks that hint they are a lot older, but I think that's just bad writing.

As shown in the show, witches can die. It was the special soil that allowed them to be resurrected.

We do see glimpses of how ancient and decrepit they really are without the glamours.

R247 they don't mention the Cain Pit (what they call that part of the garden with the special soil) in the first several episodes but it is given more background halfway through the season. I think it's unique to the Spellmans and they have to have a body to put in it.

R250 that square with the Puritan view of witches the show is going for. Puritans believed witches were all secretly hideous but used magic to appear younger and hotter then they were

😱😱😱😱

I'm confused about the setting. All the cars and the classmates clothes are from the 60s or 70s. There's no mention of Internet and no cell phone usage. Yet Ambrose has a laptop in the first episode.

Does Susie remind anyone else of Mike (Finn Wolfhard) on Stranger Things?

Ross is a hot piece off ass

Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this

I don't understand that Tweet ^

The original Sabrina the Teenage Witch cast (well, not the movie version, that had a much hotter Harvey) reacts to a few episodes of the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina.

I wish it was longer! I think they watched the first three episodes but it was only two minutes of banter. I mean Caroline Rhea is a stand-up comedian, and I wanted to hear what the cast members thought about their replacements. They did comment on the shirtless scenes a bit, hehe.

Nate's aged and gained a little weight but he's still cute. I never thought his Harvey was all that attractive though.

Aw, that was so sweet! They all look really good, still.

R142 I really need to start reading the comics.

R173 *raises hand*

R221 Thanks for posting that article. I immediately thought of NOES when i saw Harvey baring his midriff lol

R258 The makeup on his face was off, giving him a yellow look

Ah ok, makes more sense now. The tweet appears to be written in some sort of foreign tongue. It's English, but not quite English. I presume it's the hand of the Dark Lord at work.

This was the original Harvey, from the movie. He was so cute and hot with his green eyes. He didn't ever really break out in Hollywood for some reason.

R130

Totally agree - the Charmed reboot is horrible. only been able to watch the pilot episode of Sabrina and it is leagues better than what CW did.

Even the original Charmed is way superior to the reboot. the reboot lacks depth

No cable TV station would be able to get away with what Sabrina pulled this season. It's rather sad that the Charmed reboot is the best they could come up with. Pushes more people to streaming services like Netflix which push the envelope even in their Teen TV programming (I would dare to include the dark comedy Insatiable as well).

[quote]Is Ross Lynch gay?

Short of him jumping on your bed naked and spreading his cheeks and begging you to enter him, there is no fucking way to tell with young men these days.

My niece's boyfriend is very heterosexual but he's gayer than I am. He wears two different color socks with little bunnies on them, he knows nothing about sports, he's constantly preening in front of a camera, he's a foodie, and everything has to be just so in his presence or he, his words, "gets all bunchy." I'm Genghis Khan compared to him.

Yes I see, they've finally explained Hilda's resurrection in episode 8 r251.

Gloria Swanson uses the same cigarette holder contraption/ring in "Sunset Boulevard" that Aunt Zelda uses.

Are any of the cast @ R259 Trump supporters? Nate looks like a aged rough trade biker !

Luckily Melissa Joan Heart isn't R270

Er Hart

It was driving me crazy during the whole series where I'd seen Michelle Gomez before. Finally got around to looking her up, and OH YEAH!! She was in THE BOOK CLUB. She was great in that. I've heard of a lot of the other shows she's been in, but have never watched them. (Yes,even DOCTOR WHO.)

IMO Michelle's best work is in Psychobitches and Doctor Who.

If the need arises, I think they should hire Lorde to play a young version of Michelle Gomez's character.

I didn't know Michelle was married to Jack Davenport. Lucky bitch.

She's six years older too.

The last episode was amazing. I was kinda hoping she would sign her name in the book in the first episode.

Michelle Gomez is kind of hard looking , but also very striking and sensual at the same time.

[quote] Ross broke up with his girlfriend last year

We are on a BREAK!!!

La Gomez was delightful on Green Wing.

I’m kind of liking this and I never got into Charmed, Buffy or the original Sabrina. Loved when a Dr. Saperstein was mentioned and the idiot doofus from Coupling is interesting as someone not being an idiot.

It’s far better than Charmed or the Sabrina sitcom. Buffy was good, but Sabrina feels less campy/silly to me. It even outdoes The Craft (which I like a lot) because it’s more morally ambiguous.

She’d be a great cameo.

I've really liked this. Kiernan Shipka is excellent--her movement to the dark side is really believable and non-melodramatic--you're manipulated by the scripts into approving of the choices she's making, and lose track of the fact that Ms. Wardwell is tricking her into doing them and pushing her closer and closer to evil. I am not the rabid fan of Ross Lynch the rest of you are, but he is fairly believable, and I find Gavin Leatherwood as Sabrina's other possible love interest, Nick Scratch, gorgeous. And there are absolutely first rate performances by Miranda Otto and Lucy Davis as Zelda and Hilda (respectively), and the star turn besides Shipka's is by Michelle Gomez as Ms. Wardwell.

Alright finished with this now.

It ended fairly strongly, though I had to chuckle at some of the writing "I don't want witches protection!!!"...cue next scene of Nicholas Scratch showing up to magically protect Harvey

Also Ambrose was still under house arrest and only given permission to go to the academy to work, but after that character seems to be able to move freely.

But overall, very satisfied with the first season. The important writing was good because Sabrina starts getting on your nerves with her entitlement but the show does a great job calling her out on it episode 9. And her descent further into the world felt real, I was surprised to see the signing of the book was done by the end of season 1, assumed that dilemma would have been dragged out longer.

Never thought I’d like a show based on a comic book with a character named Madame Satan, but it’s really good and well grounded. Such a great relief from the Marvel/DC stuff that has taken over Hollywood.

Nothing really scares or even grosses me out anymore—so all that’s left is storytelling. Is it engaging and immersive or not? That’s what makes this teen melodrama a thousand times better than American Horror Story. I wish Sabrina could be nominated for an Emmy, but I don’t see a show for teens involving magic and service to Satan getting much love from the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.

I was shocked when I realized it was Lucy Davis playing Hida. When did gain s much weight?

[Quote] Totally agree - the Charmed reboot is horrible. only been able to watch the pilot episode of Sabrina and it is leagues better than what CW did. Even the original Charmed is way superior to the reboot. the reboot lacks depth

Well it is the CW lol. I've only seen 2 episodes and i don't hate it, but there were so many times i was wondering why the girls did something so stupid.

[Quote] I’m kind of liking this and I never got into Charmed, Buffy or the original Sabrina.

Charmed and Sabrina were both cheesy shows but still fun. Buffy and Angel are good though. You should give it a shot.

[Quote] It even outdoes The Craft (which I like a lot) because it’s more morally ambiguous.

I'd say (in some ways) The Craft was a tad darker.

[quote] but there were so many times i was wondering why the girls did something so stupid.

There was a definite tone change from the Shannen days to the Rose days when the show became campy. Originally it took things very seriously (or as serious as you can get on a teen network) and by the end they were having insane adventures as Goddesses and the show became focused on dating and babies and all the wackiness they thought teen girls wanted.

[quote]I'd say (in some ways) The Craft was a tad darker.

Completely agree. I'd say the ideas behind the usage of magic were very different in each. On Sabrina there are no (what we would classify as) "good witches." They're very "do'est thou will" and can use magic (and often do with the exception of Sabrina but only because of her stupidity) with no consequences or regard for human life or the lives of others. They eat people, kill and torture and don't think twice about it.

The Craft on the other hand established that if you do something to someone it will come back to bite you in the butt "times three" because they're Wiccans. Nancy lost her mind. Rochelle and Bonnie along with Nancy lost their access to their power because Sarah "bound" them after they tried to kill their friend. Only Sarah reigns supreme since she only used her powers to torture a jock at school and learned how bad it was to do that after he died thanks to Nancy.

However, at the beginning we were supposed to believe these were all good people including Nancy (who was a bit twisted but meant well). They all started out wanting to do good, have fun and defend themselves and three got corrupted. It's much more cautionary.

[Quote] There was a definite tone change from the Shannen days to the Rose days when the show became campy. Originally it took things very seriously (or as serious as you can get on a teen network) and by the end they were having insane adventures as Goddesses and the show became focused on dating and babies and all the wackiness they thought teen girls wanted.

Yeah, you're right. I think it was Shannen who wanted the show to go in a darker direction. And it was one of the reasons why she was having problems on the show.

LOL. The Satanic Temple is pissed that Sabrina took their Baphomet design.

Anyone who's read the comics, does the Academy have a statue like the one in the show?

The Baphomet design as mentioned above was from a drawing by Eliphas Levi. However the Satanic Temple made a version of it that had children gazing up at Baphomet which is similar to the one in the TV show.

For reference here's the Satanic Temples version of Baphomet.

I don’t recall any kind of witch academy or the weird sisters in the comics. Satan is pictured many times as a goat god, but I don’t think there’s an exact version of the Satanic Temple’s Baphomet.

This show is fantastic, highly recommended to people who just watched The Haunting of Hill House. Don't worry that it'll be too soft or too teen, it's a flat-out horror show, you'll love it. Takes the nasty taste out of your mouth from the cutesy Sabrina 90s series. I like how they revived the career of perfectly good actor Bronson Pinchot too, giving him a role in something dignified for a change.

Ross’s butt.

[quote]The balance seems off at times. The Harrowing (hazing / bullying) plot seemed too Afterschool special while the rest seemed very mature for a teen show

I thought the harrowing episode was by far the weakest. All these witch kids were killed when they started school and none of their parents cared or raised attention to it before Sabrina? Okay, whatever. We finally get to the magic academy and that episode was disappointing.

[quote]Harvey lying on the bed with his midriff showing was hot hot hot! You just want to jump on him

I'm not even really into Ross Lynch, but him laying in bed in that midriff exposing top was sexy as fuck.

[quote]Does pansexual cousin Ambrose

This show presented every young witch'/warlock as pansexual. Prudence and her two minions, Ambrose, Luke, Nick Scratch. They were all presented as hedonists that can get down with either gender.

[quote] I wish Sabrina could be nominated for an Emmy, but I don’t see a show for teens involving magic and service to Satan getting much love from the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences.

Eh, I like this show but I don't see as emmy material really, which is fine.

Here’s bulimic Lucy Davis. I like Hilda version better.

The comic’s dark lord and the tree where the witches were hanged.

I always thought she had the sort of face, that showed her natural body type was bigger. Same with Christina Ricci. I always thought they had eating disorders.

That said, most of Hollywood probably have eating disorders or drug addictions.

I was shocked when I saw Lucy in Wonder Woman. I thought perhaps she had gained the weight for the role.

I thought she may have partly worn a fat suit, as well as accepting that the weight fight was too hard. I don't think she wore one now. Oh well, she has a new career in playing the daffy, funny, fat, middle aged spinster. She does a nice job at it.

The incredible visuals and art direction, and Michelle Gomez's acting is what has made me keep watching it. Looking forward to seeing where it goes (I'm three episodes in).

Michelle Gomez' hair should get its own screen credit.

r293 Lmao the Satanic Temple turned out worst that the christians, if the Vatican had to sue every time some imagery or (often wrong) of their rituals are depicted in movies, half of the terror genre won't exist anymore.

Well, they're suing because it looks like Sabrina's set design people copied their statue, which itself was a derivative of other work (although no longer copyrighted). The other stuff about cannibalism etc. they're mainly just whining about, but the artwork issue actually seems valid. The statue does appear to be a close copy of the one they had made, with the same variations that the Satanic Temple made to their version of Baphomet that are a little too specific to be a coincidence.

It's not a great comparison with the Catholic church given its ubiquity and integration into the lives of millions - images like Christ on a cross etc. are so commonplace. But if they had a specific design, or even the church's official logo for example, that could be protected.

r304 I was wondering if they had to reshoot parts of the initial episode and maybe she WAS wearing a fat suit in the first episode, because she'd lost weight during the season or something and they had to redo an early scene after filming had wrapped. The unevenness of the first several episodes would make more sense if they ended up reshooting or adding scenes later because they decided to go a different direction.

I [italic]almost[/italic] forgot about her role in Shaun Of The Dead.

I was telling my dad (70) about Sabrina and he was interested in it. I told him it’s funny that I have no patience for vampires or zombies or mummies or any horror tropes at all—except witches. He said he feels the same way, because witches are real. Not the Bewitched kind, but there are people who practice magic of various sorts and witches have a significant place in history, so it’s much easier to take witchcraft seriously. I was kinda floored that he feels that way! Do any of you feel similarly?

R311, yes, absolutely.

Like him better blonde

Zombies are real.

They aren't actually dead people but are those who have been over-worked or who are chronically ill but still must serve their slave driver in spite of being in a terrible stupor.

R314 sure, that's what the Secret Lesbians WANT you to think.

Count me in as one of the viewers who disliked the first three and warmed up to it as it went on. It started off as The Self-Righteous Adventures of the Sabrina the Teenage SJW. I get that shows need to establish themselves quickly as "woke" and socially-conscious to fend off Twitter mobs, but the characters just weren't likable. Sabrina kept going off of self-righteous rants and that whole plotline where she traumatized the principal with spiders because he wouldn't do anything to stop the genderqueer's bullying...without proof or the names of any of the tormenters didn't help to make her a sympathetic lead. I also HATED the storyline with Ambrose cheerfully fucking the dead guy's boyfriend while he was body was downstairs and not even cold yet. I was ready to give up after episode three until the boyfriend read something online how the season gets better and I'm happy I did.

Kiernan Shipka is still coasting on goodwill from Mad Men, but it wasn't as if MJH was a great actress either. I do hate the incessant horror movie references, like Pet Sematary, Carrie, and The Shinin--I mean, "The Cunning." It doesn't really seem to color the plot. It just feels like the writers letting us know they know some VERY cool movies and to establish some unearned credibility.

Well duh! The first three episodes are important (apart from setting up the whole show and its universe) to see the progression from nice girl to bad (ass) witch.

Of Sabrina, I mean.

Nick Scratch is the devil in human form, right? That none-too-subtle name selection has to point to something.

R317, if that was the writers trying to establish Sabrina as a "nice girl" then they failed miserably.

[quote] The incredible visuals and art direction

The art direction was fine but the visuals were awful. Too dark and out of focus.

[Quote]I also HATED the storyline with Ambrose cheerfully fucking the dead guy's boyfriend while he was body was downstairs and not even cold yet.

It wasn't his boyfriend, Luke said they had hooked up a few times, he clearly had no real attachment to him (and was probably involved in his murder I think)

[Quote]Sabrina kept going off of self-righteous rants

Agreed, but that is why I appreciated that by the end she specifically gets called out for how self-righteous she is being and her actions blow up in her face.

[Quote]Nick Scratch is the devil in human form, right? That none-too-subtle name selection has to point to something.

His supportive interactions with Harvey made me think otherwise, I think the character just is who appears to be, not Satan in disguise. Why on earth would Satan be helpful to Harvey and encourage him to give Sabrina another chance?

I thought the star, Kiernan Shipka, reminded me of some earlier child star, and then realized Kiernan Shipka looks just like Kiernan Shipka. She's been working consistently since she was 7. Being Don Draper's daughter in Mad Men was probably her highest profile role before Sabrina, but this really her first big break.

Nick is gorgeous. I feel like he was being set up as a potential boyfriend/ temptation for Sabrina.

While everyone was losing their nuts over "Harvey" I thought Nick (Gavin Leatherwood) was pretty hot.

I think we will eventually see Gavin in cloven hooves...

Will we eventually see Gavin completely naked?

I do like his last name. Gavin Leatherwood.

R323 that's actually Kiernan Shipka's mother. You're older than you think.

To enjoy any Archie Comic product, you have to accept that there will be a ton of pop culture references, cute puns, some hokeyness. It’s a big part of the Americana charm that is the Archie brand. And I’ll say it again: it does the pop culture reference thing much more successfully than American Horror Story does.

Am I the only person who doesn't find Nick all that attractive? I'd much rather boink Harvey.

Looks like all the boys hang out together.

Mmm, hot three-way family sex.

Holy shit! Can't believe Shaun of the Dead was that long ago

Tom and Lorenzo posted their review. I always enjoy hearing their viewpoint, some of their points I agreed with and some really made my eyes roll though.

[quote]The mid-Century aesthetic, while fun to look at and charming, is hugely distracting at those times when the show suddenly decides it’s set in the present. Worse, it forces the characters into doing things – like using Polaroid cameras and pay phones – that really don’t make any sense in a world where a smart phone suddenly pops up when the story needs it to. Given the early press materials for the show and the comic it’s based on, it would seem that the plan was to originally set it in the 1960s but the idea got abandoned somewhere in the process. The problem is, the 98% period aesthetic is a bit too overwhelming. Riverdale is a show with a classic aesthetic and lots of throwbacks to mid-Century period styles and designs, but you never lose sight of the fact that those kids live in a world where computers and smart phones and the internet are ubiquitous.

Agree.

[quote]And the writing, at times, doesn’t seem to play into Kiernan’s natural strengths. Sabrina can’t really be a badass; not when Kiernan Shipka’s embodying her. Because of Shipka’s baby face, small size and naturally placid expression, the role of Sabrina needs to have way less Buffy Summers and way more Carrie White in the mix. It’s why we were so excited about Shipka’s casting in the first place, because the comic this series is based on plays up the darker sides of Sabrina’s personality, something Kiernan’s extremely adept at as an actress. She’s pretty, sweet-looking, and capable of a darkly unsettling undertone in her acting. On the few occasions when the show played into that (the wink in the last second of the season would be the prime example), her casting really makes sense and brings the character to life. When she’s spitting threats or vowing vengeance, however, the script is not playing to her strengths.

Agree

[quote]And unfortunately, we have to address some parts of the story that felt a bit problematic. The most glaring was the scene in the second episode when Sabrina and the weird sisters bewitched a group of bullies into making out with each other and taking pictures of it. Now, this happened in a series where the lead character slit a girl’s throat and in which a some of the supporting characters tore a woman’s body to pieces eating it. Obviously, the moral codes of a great deal of the characters are screwed up, if not downright evil – Sabrina included. But we were meant to question the throat-slitting, meant to be revolted by the cannibalism. The gay panic response to the bullies was not meant to be presented as something bad on Sabrina’s part, but something triumphant and righteous. Even worse, Hilda’s later outing of one of the boys to the other one was presented as something comical and deserved instead of the cruelly dangerous thing that it was. These tropes are old and outdated and damaging. And honestly, kind of weird when they were deliberately positioned against Suzie’s gender identity journey, as if gayness and non-binary identities are in violent opposition to each other. It feels like someone didn’t think through the implications of these scenes.

Eye roll.

[quote]n a similar vein, the racial optics of the show were sometimes questionable at best. On the surface, there was something appealing about the racial blindness of the show in its casting choices, but again, there’s a sense that certain things weren’t exactly thought though completely. From Sabrina triumphantly hanging Prudence from a tree to Zelda abducting a biracial baby, there was this odd sort of … sloppiness surrounding how the characters of color were framed or portrayed. Any time a writer wants to have a white character hang a black character from a tree or abduct a black character’s baby or slit the only Asian character’s throat, they really have to stop and consider how they’re portraying that and more importantly, why they’re doing it

Hardcore eye-roll.

Another viewer here annoyed by the SJW junk at the beginning and relieved when the show started to leave it behind and focused on the storytelling. Lots of stage-trained actors having a lot of fun--the Brits know how to do this kind over the top theatrical stuff and it helps--honorary Brit tag for Aussie Miranda Otto for these purposes. So well cast on the coven front. Harvey's fine, less interested in blind seer girl and genderqueer girl, though they're not terrible--but I don't care about their rather earnest storylines. More weird sisters, aunties, Nick Scratch, Lilith and High Priest with great voice and eyeliner.

Oh, and Kiernan's okay. Not super charismatic, but she makes some interesting choices and there's a bit of a spin in her delivery that's interesting and makes the character work.

[quote] n a similar vein, the racial optics of the show were sometimes questionable at best. On the surface, there was something appealing about the racial blindness of the show in its casting choices, but again, there’s a sense that certain things weren’t exactly thought though completely. From Sabrina triumphantly hanging Prudence from a tree to Zelda abducting a biracial baby, there was this odd sort of … sloppiness surrounding how the characters of color were framed or portrayed. Any time a writer wants to have a white character hang a black character from a tree or abduct a black character’s baby or slit the only Asian character’s throat, they really have to stop and consider how they’re portraying that and more importantly, why they’re doing it

I read this first and stopped there. It makes me not want to read anything else these people write. It did make me laugh out loud though.

Major eyeroll from me too R334.

[quote] The gay panic response to the bullies was not meant to be presented as something bad on Sabrina’s part, but something triumphant and righteous.

I did a double take when I saw this scene. However, I suspected that one or two of them would turn out to be gay and we'd find out later. The blond jock is even in the opening credits. Add into that the fact that the person they were attacking may be genderqueer or future trans or whatever they will label the character and it takes a slightly different turn.

[quote]Even worse, Hilda’s later outing of one of the boys to the other one was presented as something comical and deserved instead of the cruelly dangerous thing that it was.

It wasn't presented as comical at all. The music, Hilda's expressions, the camera work, all lent itself to be nothing less than menacing. She told the blond jock that just because he was abused, that doesn't give him the right to do it to other people and she did out his friend but they were both picking on someone who is also in the same situation. She was more annoyed and disgusted that they didn't see that.

[quote]From Sabrina triumphantly hanging Prudence from a tree to Zelda abducting a biracial baby, there was this odd sort of … sloppiness surrounding how the characters of color were framed or portrayed. Any time a writer wants to have a white character hang a black character from a tree or abduct a black character’s baby or slit the only Asian character’s throat, they really have to stop and consider how they’re portraying that and more importantly, why they’re doing it

Characters of color were portrayed like any character would in a script and that's the goal of this kind of casting. It's a brutal show. Witches were often hung from trees. Zelda "adopted" the baby to save her life. The "Asian witch" got what she deserved after killing another character. This is part of the character's universes. Besides, we got the nice black character "best friend" Rosalind who is a stark contrast to Prudence. We also got Ambrose. The characters of color run the gambit of morality and motivations. That's how this is supposed to be done. No one is getting singled out.

Is Agatha truly "the only Asian character"? I thought she was mixed race (in her case, Eurasian), and that Gavin Leatherdale who plays Nick is mixed race (Eurasian) too.

Also, Zelda did not abduct the baby from a black character, since Lady blackwood was dead when she took the baby home. She abducted the baby from its white father.

[quote]From Sabrina triumphantly hanging Prudence from a tree

But Prudence wasn't killed, and Sabrina did not even seriously try to kill her. And Sabrina did it only after she threatened to hang Sabrina (and was going to kill her if she did).

This is bullshit.

[quote]Is Agatha truly "the only Asian character"? I thought she was mixed race (in her case, Eurasian), and that Gavin Leatherdale who plays Nick is mixed race (Eurasian) too.

Yeah I'm fairly certain that both actors are half white/half Asian.

I like TomandLorenzo in general, but they've got the same issues a lot of SJWish critics have which is that they're so caught up in being PC that they lose any sense of how to construct a story and build characters. A lot of this type criticism really comes down to closing down storyline options and flattening out POC characters.

Prudence wasn't hanged--it showed her being magically choked, not hanged--probably as a way of *not* showing a black woman being hanged.

So, is the answer for Zelda stealing a biracial baby just to not cast a black woman as Rev. Blackwood's wife? Because that's really the easy way out of it for the show, but it means a black actress not getting a part she'd otherwise have.

The show would work better if all the characters were Lesbians.

[quote]So, is the answer for Zelda stealing a biracial baby just to not cast a black woman as Rev. Blackwood's wife? Because that's really the easy way out of it for the show, but it means a black actress not getting a part she'd otherwise have.

Well said. When you start saying non-white characters need to treated with kids gloves, then it just make creatives not want to use non-white actors.

If this show didn't have such a racially diverse cast, or didn't have a prominent gay/bi character in Ambrose I might get their points. Then it could seem the writers view of homosexuality or race seems problematic, but obviously that is not the case, trying to find ways to attack them over those issues seems absurd.

I know Tlo comes here, or at least they did, hope your reading this guys!

Is it me or does Netflix use the same actors in multiple shows.

Try watching BBC shows on Netflix R344. It will blow your mind how many actors cross over from show to show.

Thank r334. I didn't realize Tom & Lorenzo are doing TV show reviews.

Don't care much for the SJW "problematic" on a show where "Hail Satan!" and a Baphomet statue is used on a set. It's crazy fun. That's all I care.

r345. Whenever I see something like Midsomer Murders I imagine that actors can make a whole career out of guest starring on murder mystery series or (UK) TV shows in general popping up everywhere for one episode and then move on to the next show.

I know! It gets really confusing when you see the same actors on different shows.

The actress playing Prudence is also half-Korean.

R345 Bear in mind that all of Great Britain is about the size of Florida. The Royal Academy can only generate so many versatile, US-ready actors.

I don’t usually mind seeing familiar character actors play different roles. The one exception I can think of is Costa Ronan playing a Russian spy on The Americans for many seasons suddenly showing up on Homeland and playing...a Russian spy. The shows aired simultaneously and he was a major character in both story arcs at the same time and I kept confusing the storylines, especially in Homeland because he had been on The Americans for so long with a similar character (deeply embedded in the Russian embassy) and all that baggage came with him to Homeland. It was frustrating.

Whenever I hear the name Prudence I always think about the Siouxsie & The Banshees cover of the Beatles song Dear Prudence (which is supposedly about Prudence Farrow, Mia's Sister).

[Quote] The art direction was fine but the visuals were awful. Too dark and out of focus.

That was one of my main complaints. I feel like i missed a few things because of some scenes being too dark (e.g Hilda's bf being a vampire).

[Quote] Oh, and Kiernan's okay. Not super charismatic, but she makes some interesting choices and there's a bit of a spin in her delivery that's interesting and makes the character work.

She was pretty creepy in a movie called February. I think it's called something else in the US.

I must be weird because while all of you are lusting after those boys I’m hot for Lord Blackwood. He’s deliciously kinky and looks like he’d throw a mean fuck.

[Quote] He’s deliciously kinky and looks like he’d throw a mean fuck.

Lol he definitely did thanks to Zelda's reaction.

I'm black, and this is the biggest bunch of bullshit that I've ever read in my life. We've argued for years for colorblind casting and now we've gotten it and some are still not happy.

And this one too. I've decided that everyone just wants to be offended now. Being offended must feel good.

[Quote] Being offended must feel good.

I think it's an addiction for some of them.

r349, she's BLASIAN?

R359 They do exist.

Everyone does want to be offended now. It’s pathological because weirdly the only way to feel like a valid non-villain in our day and age is to be part of an oppressed group. You can’t be good without having been victimized, and it does seem that a lot is forgiven of people as long as they belong to some minority class. It’s a pretty twisted turn. I am a white guy and so presumably I am horrible, but I am pretty damned gay and so I am treated by many like a delicate little kitten. Mind you, I was abused throughout middle and high school and I carry some trauma from it—but in the end, I am not fragile; I can be as much of an asshole as anyone and when I am I expect to be held accountable, not granted special victim status, which people have done. It makes me feel less than human when it happens, too, ironically. I pray that if we come through this era, people will more or less accept that everyone is capable of good and bad and that most of us are mostly OK, some are condemnable, and all it has to do with is individual personal character and not one’s special protected group designation.

Yeah I didn't guess that from her appearance, but her mom is Asian and her father is black.

Well Ross Lynch and his real life brother think it's cool they have sex in the same room together r332.

R363 Why are they half naked? And I think Ross Lynch is kind of homely, to be honest. He looks like he is going to end up looking like Gary Busey in a couple of decades. I don’t usually like to say critical things about less-than-gorgeous people’s appearances, but all of you seem to think he’s an Adonis and so I guess one critic isn’t going to break his heart.

Ross is a cute goofy.

Tom Hanks, Ben Afflek, Brad Pitt

Yeah Lynch is far from an adonis r364, honestly if you passed him on the street you wouldn't look twice. The only scene where I thought he was hot was the crop-top Nightmare on Elm street homage.

Ross Lynch by way of David Lynch = Gary Busey. Time will not be kind to his face.

[quote]In the MJH show they say witches live to be around 650 I think? Zelda was around 500 I think. Although they throw in some confusing flashbacks that hint they are a lot older, but I think that's just bad writing.

I don't think witches live that long in this show. The founding of Greendale is referred to as the past generation, something the current witches weren't alive for.

Hilda made it seem she was young around the time of Queen Victoria's coronation. I'd guess the characters are probably supposed to be around ~200 or so. Ambrose probably around 100, it seems like he was young when he tried to blow up the Vatican 75 years ago. Zelda and Hilda are into middle age so witches probably can live up to say 300?

That'd be my guess.

I think R368 has put a lot more thought into the ages of witches than Sabrina’s writers have.

Heh, you are probably right r369.

[quote]I don't think witches live that long in this show. The founding of Greendale is referred to as the past generation, something the current witches weren't alive for.

Ambros is in his 70s but looks like he can't be that much older than Sabrina (I'd place him in his early 20s) so you'd have to imagine how old Hilda and Zelda are based upon that.

Sabrina was told that falling in love with mortals is tricky because they will age and die and she'll still be the same. So they at least live longer than a single human lifetime.

They likely have some form of slowed aging but they can be killed like anyone else.

As for the Greendale, many of the "previous" generation of witches in Greendale's history were murdered by the citizens while the rest ran and hid. Who knows how long they were alive before that happened.

It's possible Hilda and Zelda were alive then but not in Greendale.

Gary Busey was never handsome. Entertaining actor though.

they said how old Ambrose was? I missed that

R373, repeatedly.

No they didn't. We never got an exact age for Ambrose or any of the witches. We know Ambrose has been under house arrest for 75 years though.

And we know Hilda talked about her most drunk night was Queen Victoria's coronation.

That does make sense R375.

Ambros has been under house arrest for 75 years. If we assume it's 2018 in the show then …

That fits with him saying he met Crowley in the 40s when they tried to blow up the Vatican around when he would have been in university.

If he was serious when he said he was friends with Houdini then he would have been alive in the late 18th, early 19th centuries.

If Greendale was founded in colonial times it would be about 350 years old. Hilda and Zelda could be well over 200 and still consider themselves the "next generation" of witches after greendale

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Miranda Otto needs to stop whining. Why would anyone hire her as an actor for a show they hope to have legs when she could leave any minute?

R366 I don't think he's an Adonis, I just think he's cute and has a nice body. But he's certainly above average.

‘Chilling Adventures of Sabrina’: An Epic Spellbinding Guide to All the Horror References, Episode by Episode

Not enough gay sex. As usual the gay love story barely got any screen time. Would have loved to see more of Ambrose and Luke, they were cute together.

To be fair the only love story that got any screentime was Sabrina and harvey

I'd hesitate to call Ambrose and Luke a love story, or "cute". , Luke hooks up with Ambrose primarily for the purpose of killing the iguana (at least that is what is implied), and then they continue because Luke is basically being mind-controlled by a love potion.

I enjoyed learning about Hilda's attraction to Sabrina's principal. In the MJH show Hilda dated Sabrina's principal two separate times.

The ending really pissed me off, she fought so hard to keep her humanity and boom 20 mins towards the end she’s like ok great sell my soul to the devil.

R386 Her whole family is committed to serving the Dark Lord. And the series has made it painfully obvious that Sabrina will refuse to play by established rules. Someone even commented at some point about her arguing with the devil or something. She put her name in the book but she’s going to insist on being independent. The show established early that these witches follow Aleister Crowley’s motto, “Do what thou will is the whole of the law.” What YOU will, not what any overlord commands of you. So unlike everyone else who follows orders, Sabrina is going to do what she will—although she is probably going to learn difficult lessons at her own and at others’ espenses. Actual satanists (not witches/wiccans) practice independence, and remember that (if we’re going by contemporary Christianity, which is not actually established in the Bible but which people believe is because people are ill informed) Satan was once Lucifer, “the light bearer” and God’s favorite angel who sat at the right of his throne. As the commonly accepted story goes, Lucifer was rejected by God not because he was evil but because after always having been God’s favorite and his confidant, God suddenly demoted him and stopped listening to his counsel. Lucifer asked why he had been rejected and God told him that he is not meant to ask questions—just to follow commands. Lucifer challenged this based on all he knew, and as punishment for being insubordinate, God created hell and threw Lucifer and all the angels who sided with him into hellfire. So the basis of satanism is true independence—do what YOU will, reject the orders of any hierarchy if you’re not comfortable with what it tells you to do. If Sabrina is true to her devotion, then she will follow her will and not the orders of Satan.

[Quote] Not enough gay sex. As usual the gay love story barely got any screen time. Would have loved to see more of Ambrose and Luke, they were cute together.

Hopefully we will......in season 2.

[Quote] In the MJH show Hilda dated Sabrina's principal two separate times.

I'm still baffled by Hilda and Zelda's attraction to Mr Kraft.

Just read that Tlo review and I can't find any part of it where they claimed to be offended.

[quote]The ending really pissed me off, she fought so hard to keep her humanity and boom 20 mins towards the end she’s like ok great sell my soul to the devil.

We are meant to see her getting seduced by withcraft over the course of the season. I mean that is what Satan promises, power and "immortality". We see she wants the power to do whatever she wants, as she starts casting out demons and trying to play around with life or death. Sabrina wants to go all in on the witchcraft, and that means signing the book.

Not everything can have a Hollywood ending. Especially not in the horror genre. Jeez.

Great to see Miranda Otto in a prominent tole. She seemed to go to ground after killing the Witch King of Angmar.

I've seen this mentioned a few time, the MJH show. Could someone tell me what it means. I've Googled and can't seem to find an answer.

The Melissa Joan Hart show R393

You must be very young r393. There was a popular 90s sitcom of "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" that starred Melissa Joan Hart.

Thank you. R394.

r393. MJH = Melissa Joan Hart, who played Sabrina on a TV show more than a decade ago.

r55 Zelda does have an English accent-hers is more refined than Hilda's.

Although it does bother me that everyone in Sabrina's family has an English accent, as well as the two big bads.

Chance Perdomo says that he previously auditioned for the role of Jughead on Riverdale which in the end ultimately ended going to Cole Sprouse.

If the aunties are 400-plus years old, then they immigrated from Britain at some point.

I can't be the only person on this thread who has never seen an episode of Riverdale right?

I wonder which hometown coven they were born into?

Hometown Coven sounds like a buffet place.

And no you are not alone, I have never seen an episode of Riverdale.

However I saw the guy who plays Jug Head on Colbert. He seems like an idiot and appropriately cast.

[quote]If the aunties are 400-plus years old, then they immigrated from Britain at some point.

If you want to be technical R400, Brits didn't sound like that 400 years ago.

Kiernan Shipka who currently play Sabrina previously auditioned for the role of Betty on Riverdale.

That slut? Good lord!

r398 it's a side effect of British colonialism. English accent = evil!

You heard it here first: I’m starting the rumor that Sarah Michelle Gellar will have a cameo as Buffy in a future season.

If Buffy appears she'll be playing a demon or something.

R408 Or she’ll be trying to vanquish evil witches who serve the dark lord...she might think Sabrina is wicked and then discover she is more like Buffy than expected and give her a boost of confidence.

And then they lez out

[Quote] I've seen this mentioned a few time, the MJH show. Could someone tell me what it means. I've Googled and can't seem to find an answer.

You never saw Clarissa Explains It All ?

[Quote] Great to see Miranda Otto in a prominent tole. She seemed to go to ground after killing the Witch King of Angmar.

I don't know why she's in that Annabelle prequel. Her role was less than 10 mins.

[Quote] I can't be the only person on this thread who has never seen an episode of Riverdale right?

No you're not.

[Quote] I’m starting the rumor that Sarah Michelle Gellar will have a cameo as Buffy in a future season.

I wouldn't mind seeing her have a recurring role on a show like this. It'd be even better if she was an evil witch. In fact, i'd prefer it to her ever showing up on the Buffy reboot.

Off topic but just wanted to share: MJH's husband is hot as hell

Agreed. No wonder she has so many kids.

Thread with a lot of pictures of Mark here for any interested. Now back on topic!

CBR complains the series isn't dark enough!

I do think they lurch pretty wildly back and forth between dark mature series and fund teenage fluff. It's like they couldn't choose a target audience. And I say this as a big fan of season 1

I'm glad it's not too dark. Seems to walk the line pretty well.

R416 agreed - also I wish the demon faces didn't look so cartoonish. Maybe it was the actress - I had a hard time seeing her as anything but a bad actress in a comical mask. Of course that was also my least favourite episode of the first part of season one, even if it did provide some interesting character background.

I hope we get to see Salem in his goblin form more, that looked amazing.

[quote]I don't think he's an Adonis, I just think he's cute and has a nice body. But he's certainly above average.

Someone get a ruler, please.

Does this new show have the wise ass cat?

It has a cat, just in this case it's a goblin in cat form that Sabrina made a big deal out of letting select HER instead of picking a trained one, like womyn's lib for goblins or something. And then it is NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN

They did less with Salem than originally intended because they found out when they started filming that Kiernan is very allergic to cats.

That's a shame. I like Salem.

Can't they just give her a Claratin? I find it hard to believe she'd never encountered a cat before.

She said they did drug her up to do the scenes, but she came out in hives all over her body.

Does sabrina have a twin werewolf brother?

I like the actress but being allergic to cats would be a dealbreaker for me in the casting process. Like, she didn't know that a witch role wouldn't include dealing with cats?

Sorry, like, she didn't know that a witch role WOULD include dealing with cats?

Well MJH had the puppet Salem most of the time.

She’s 18 and she didn’t know that she was allergic to cats before she was cast. I don’t find that hard to believe at all.

I never had a cat, but when I was a kid my best friend had a cat and she had kittens. I played with them all the time—snuggled them and all that. No problem. Then at 18 I sort of dated a guy who had a psychotic cat that would ambush me and scratch me all the time. Everytime I went to his house my scalp and legs would itch and I figured the house was dusty or something. Then around age 22 my aunt asked me to cat sit/house sit for her and I was happy to do it...I love cats! She encouraged me to live in her house while she was gone. So I snuggled with the cat when she warmed up to me, went to bed a little itchy, and then a lot, and then the sneezing started, and then suddenly my throat began to close up and I couldn’t breathe. I RAN out of that house when I finally realized at 22 how allergic I am to cats. I took Benadryl and was OK, but I am lucky that I didn’t have a severe anaphylatic reaction. Had an allergy prick test and had mild allergies to dust, cockroaches and ragweed, and half my forearm swelled up from the cat allergin. The allergist said “don’t even think about cats or you’ll probably break out in hives.” She said living with or around a cat, even with antihistamines, would make my immune system go haywire. I told her I was never allergic to cats as a kid and she said it’s normal to develop new allergies and sensitivities as we age. So I don’t have any trouble believing that an 18 year old girl had no idea she was allergic to cats when she was cast in this show, and cat allergies can be very serious. Anaphylaxis is potentially life threatening. I am surprised they can’t CGI a simple black cat, though.

[Quote] Does sabrina have a twin werewolf brother?

Is that in the comics or.....?

Oh look. The Mary Sue thinks it's Problematic.

I did think Susie came across as an afterthought mostly. But only because they pursued so many plot lines. I think a little more focus on just a few plotlines would benefit them next season

Totally the token trans kid that has to be shoehorned into every show.

It's a show with a large ensemble cast. I don't know how much ground people expect to be covered in 10 episodes.

I think they could of done without a lot of characters, I think harv of course along with hilda, zelda and deffo her teacher were needed but some others were not. It felt like they were there not for the story but to tick some boxes. I’d rather them not have so many characters or at least limit the screen time, for a show like this you need 3 main characters and maybe like 4 supporting but as with many Netflix shows they try to ram as many stories and characters as possible. When you limit the characters it makes the flow of show much easier to watch and you invest in the characters because you get to see more back story.

I am sure Susie and her family will be as important in the future as the other kids and their families and their legacies.

Game of Thrones has shown writers they can go as big as they want to r436.

As to the Satanists and that statue of Baphomet, I know they are trying to rescue "Satanism" from the idea that it's evil and the opposite of Christianity and "what God wants," but ... a goat headed man with cloven hooves is really the best messenger for that?

I mean, why not just go all the way and have a man with three snake heads, bat wings and a jackhammer for a penis?

Satanists need an appointment at Edelman, STAT!

"I'm good! I'm just misunderstood! HONESTLY I am! Now leave your firstborn children with me ...."

[quote] As to the Satanists and that statue of Baphomet, I know they are trying to rescue "Satanism" from the idea that it's evil and the opposite of Christianity and "what God wants," but ... a goat headed man with cloven hooves is really the best messenger for that?

Did we watch the same show? It's clear as day to me that the show doesn't condone Satanism as it's portrayed on the show. I would dare to claim that the show is very anti religion or anti cult. The jury is still out on what they think of families and kids following their families' legacies.

GOT had clear separate storylines that could easily be broken down due to the fact they were in separate locations jon in the north, dags in the desert etc. But when you have one location and characters walking in and out of each others scenes with multiple story lines and arcs it can be confusing from time to time and stories feel half done like the witch hunter story for example.

r442. C'mon. You mention Game of Thrones? The show is going on for, what, seven seasons now? Remember when they introduced the White Walkers in the opening scene and then did barely anything with them until season 3? And then you write something like

[quote] and stories feel half done like the witch hunter story for example.

Since you've waited so patiently while watching Game of Thrones I'm sure you can muster the same patience for Chilling Adventures of Sabrina.

Not really I ended up skipping through alot of the scenes by episode 7 so I could focus on the sabrina storyline and it’s not an ensemble cast the clues in the name the chilling adventures of “Sabrina” 90% of screen time should be devoted to her because the other characters are not equal to her, it’s her story from her pov.

r444. So, you fast forward through a lot of scenes that doesn't involve the lead and still complain

[quote] and stories feel half done like the witch hunter story for example.

WTF????????? Do you also complain there is not enough gay stuff on the show, because, gosh, you fast forward through that as well?

Connors murder storyline wasn't dropped, it was just a storyline to be continued into Season 2. It was clear that Luke knows more than what he said.

Damn, R444 is just too stupid to watch TV.

Yes I skipped and yes I complained about 30 mins of a 60 min episode was essentially sabrina, the rest were snooze fest boring characters playing lip service to lgbtq issues.

Clearly the guy's a troll. Ignore.

r430 that's interesting that you would compare your experiences with an actor who has been working for years and exposed to a lot more than most people her age.

r427 oh she knew Sabrina had a cat. More than likely she didn't tell them she was allergic until it was too late to replace her so she could get this breakout starring role. I'm sure she thought she could handle it with drugs.

Sabrina the Teenage Witch TV series used four or five real cats as Salem, and the puppet when it was talking. Each cat had one or more things it was good at (like running or jumping or whatever) so they'd use whichever cat was needed in the scene based on what they were doing.

[quote]oh she knew Sabrina had a cat. More than likely she didn't tell them she was allergic until it was too late to replace her so she could get this breakout starring role. I'm sure she thought she could handle it with drugs.

According to the interview where she revealed this R451, she had no clue she was allergic to cats at all. So up until that point she'd never had to handle one in her personal life or she had never had one close to her face.

I don't think she was lying or she would have likely gone to a doctor and dealt with it before she started working on the show once she got the part rather shoot the scenes, go home and wake up the next morning with an allergic reaction and THEN start on different medications to try and deal with it.

I haven't been around a cat in almost 15 years now that I think about it and even then years ago I don't think I touched it or held it.

Yeah I don't know why some people find it hard to believe an 18 year old had never spent much time with a cat.

I was never around cats much growing up, it wasn't til my 20s when I had a good friend with a cat that changed.

I guess they are cat people.

[quote] It has a cat, just in this case it's a goblin in cat form that Sabrina made a big deal out of letting select HER instead of picking a trained one, like womyn's lib for goblins or something. And then it is NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN

Oh my God! And there will be no more episodes of the show ever, so we will never find out anything more about Salem! That really justifies your all caps hysteria.

I don’t get why they didn’t use cgi or puppets like they did with MJH. Salem on the sitcom was a massive part of the show.

I’m glad Salem doesn’t talk. It lends to the serious tone of the show. The sitcom was a silly broadcast family show that aired while people still remembered Alf, so a dumb looking sassy cat puppet made more sense in that time for that purpose. It would completely wreck a scary version of the show to have a cute little cat sassing Sabrina around. Come on.

R454 doesn't understand sarcasm

Loved the show but why oh why did they have to kill the hot brother?

Sorry but it's clear that she lied to get the part, and probably did so because she needed the money due to her gambling and coke problems. Since she was millions in debt, she knew they'd pass over her if she told them the truth about her car allergy. But she was also too high by then to care about lying to Jesus and the studio execs.

Why are you all so ageist as to believe an 18 year old who has been working for a decade (unless you were a young actor I doubt your experiences compare) would not have encountered at least one cat growing up?

R459 been reading a lot of CDAN blinds eh?

Growing up we had 2 different cats, Tom and Beebo. I loved those damned cats and didn't have a problem with them. Fast forward to 24 and my roommate and I got a cat and I started sneezing and wheezing and all that junk. Found out that I have a cat allergy. Explained that I had cats growing up and the doctor said that allergies can develop later in life. Shit happens.

R459 has stated her boundaries R460.

We musn't upset her and her strange "encyclopedic knowledge" of Kiernan Shipka's personal life & past relationships with cats.

r462 doesn't understand that Shipka needed money to pay down her gambling debts and also to bail her coke dealer out of prison, because only he can provide the special China White blend she grew up with. That's why she lied to get the part, knowing about her terrible cat allergy from the time she was ten. If they cross reference where she grew up with the reports of the Cat Strangler murders, they would discover a Lot More.

I found out I was allergic to cats when I was ten or eleven when my parents decided to get one. Oddly I was unaware of it before that, even though I know I spent time at the house of a friend who had two cats. Maybe I didn't develop the allergy until around that age? And I don't remember hanging out with people who had cats in my teens except once or twice. It's not impossible for her to be unaware of it. It's hilarious though that this is now part of an elaborate CDAN fantasy as I gather from above posters.

^ r464 = Shipka's PR team

[quote] Growing up we had 2 different cats, Tom and Beebo.

Thanks for giving us their names. The anecdote just wouldn't have been the same without them!

Why isn’t Bootsie Gumdrops playing Salem?

R463 Lmao

Is that you Sissyboodles?

Wow.

This thread got weird in a very unexpected way.

R470 They always do.

r471 sure, that's what the False God WANTS you to think.

Some more info on the Satanic Temple lawsuit from Netflix:

The Satanic Temple Apparently Believes In Copyright And Is Suing Netflix For $50 Million It Will Not Get from the satanic-copyrights dept

So... the Satanic Temple is suing Netflix for $50 million for copyright infringement. Please insert your own joke here.

To be honest, you would kind of hope that the Satanic Temple would, you know, maybe have a bit more excitement when filing federal cases, but this case is just... dumb. I'm almost wondering if it's just a sort of publicity stunt for both the Satanic Temple and the Netflix series Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. The crux of the complaint is that the show features a Baphomet statue that they feel is too similar to their own Baphomet statue (which the Temple tries to get erected in front of courthouses who want to post the 10 Commandments). If you're thinking but isn't Baphomet "a historical deity which has a complex history, having been associated with accusations of devil worship against the Knight Templar," I'd agree with you and perhaps copy and paste that statement straight from the Satanic Temple's complaint. But... wouldn't that also likely mean that it had been around in a design form for many, many years, meaning most depictions are probably public domain? Yes, again. Hell, even the complaint itself explains this:

The classic visual representation of idea of Baphomet is an image created in or about 1856 by an occult historian Eliphas Levi (the “1856 Baphomet”), which is notable for its use of a seated figure, with exposed large voluptuous female breasts, androgynous arms, a seeming male lower body and a Sabbatic Goat’s head. A copy of the historic Levi drawing of Baphomet is annexed as Exhibit E.

Yes, yes, I know you want to see Exhibit E, so here it is:

(see link)

And let's say it's pretty clear that whoever designed the Baphomet statue in the Sabrina show was pretty clearly copying the Satanic Temple's Baphomet. It's the same thing:

(see link)

But is it infringing? First off, how much of the Temple's Baphomet is actually protectable? Not very much. The Temple notes that it made Baphomet's chest to be a male chest, rather than a female chest (to prevent courthouses from blocking their requests on the grounds that an exposed female breast -- on a mythical winged beast -- might be deemed "obscene"). The Temple also notes it added the children to the sculpture, which at least is something different.

The lawsuit, filed by lawyer Bruce Lederman, is full of useful nuggets -- many pointed out by Sarah Burstein. It opens up by saying that:

This case presents, among other things, a textbook example of the hornbook explanation of copyright protection that copyright law protects unique expressions, but not the ideas themselves.

Hornbook in legal terminology does tend to mean a settled legal principle, but it's difficult to believe that the lawyers weren't going for a bit of a pun here.

There's a copyright claim, but beyond the question of what is even protectable here, Burstein highlights that the Satanic Temple doesn't even really show that it has a valid copyright at all, since the sculpture was done on commission, and it's not clear that the copyrights were properly transferred:

(see link)

There's also the fair use issue. This is a statue that happens to be seen in a TV show. While there do tend to be insurance companies and entertainment lawyers who demand that every possible thing seen on a screen must first be licensed, that's not how copyright law actually works (or it would be impossible to film a ton of stuff).

On the trademark side, Burstein also questions whether or not there's a valid trademark, while I'd question (if there even is a trademark) whether or not these are even competing in the same marketplace.

(see link for rest)

This thread is going to end up weirder than a boiled owl between seasons.

Happened on the OITNB threads as well.

There's nothing weird about this thread!

R475

Exactly.

That guy had lived with cats and open arks his whole life. Only to discover that he was allergic to them both quite suddenly at the ripe old age of...

Somebody is embracing their new sex symbol status

More Ross Lynch!!!!

He is doing the basic bitch Instagram thing of posting some thirst trap picture with a trying to be deep caption r477. That always makes me roll my eyes.

I really enjoyed this. Looking for to the next season.

Am i the only one who found the scene where Sabrina winks at Nick awkward?

R481 That is a very specific criticism of a 10-episode narrative lol

R482 Is it?? I blame the slow motion.

I was quite surprised when I worked out Aunt Hilda was once the hot one in the Office.

r484- she's completely unrecognizable as Etta Candy in "Wonder Woman".

She was fun in WW. I think she'd be pretty funny if she'd interacted with the Justice League.

I loved Wonder Woman (although I’ve grown tired of superhero movies as a rule), and her small role was my favorite part of the whole movie.

[Quote] (although I’ve grown tired of superhero movies as a rule)

I can't keep up with the tv shows either. How many more do we need?

We will not rest until there are Seven trans superheroes woven into the fabric of the culture of society! Anything less is LITERAL VIOLENCE!!

R488 Superhero TV shows or just TV shows generally? A girl at my office yelled out, exasperated, that she just doesn’t have time to watch all the new TV shows. I suggested then that she not watch them and instead prioritize real life. “But!” she said, “EVERYONE is watching them! I feel guilty if I don’t!”

I hate people.

R490 of she didnt watch them, she might have to fall back on her brilliant personality in conversations!

R490 I meant superhero shows but it applies to all of them. I've lost track and i can't keep up. Sabrina is actually one of the few shows i binge watched right away.

R491 Lol snap!

That's the problem with some people. They need to stay informed and watch all the popular stuff in order to be able to "contribute" while socializing. They never realize that they are just sheep following trends to be part of a mass they are completely invisible in (or they are scary creeps who do exactly that to be invisible to everybody else and do their creepy thing undetected).

I was 27 when I found out I was allergic to cats. Being around a friends cat for 5 or 10 minutes maybe I had the symptoms and wrote them off as a cold. But when I spent a weekend at a friends house hanging around his cat for hours, it became obvious.

Why do people think an 18 year old actress would be hanging around cats enough to know she has an allergy when most normal folk do not know at that point? And if she did know, why do you think the producers would can her when she is so right in other respects?

For the production it's a safety and insurance issue. Now that they know she's allergic they have to make sure the set is safe for her or she could sue them. That wouldn't be an issue with someone who isn't allergic. And while very likely easy to work around I imagine it's a pretty annoying issue to deal with at a show about witches.

[Quote] They never realize that they are just sheep following trends to be part of a mass they are completely invisible in

Netflix is releasing a bonus christmas themed episode on Dec 14th. Pleasant surprise.

A Very Satanic Christmas. Interesting!

There are soamy plot holes, little and big, which get me about this show. Here's one of each:

If the Spellmans have a graveyard for burying witches which brings them back to life, why wasn't Sabrina's father buried there and brought back to life as is regularly done for Hilda?

At the end, what was the throwaway line about "your hair changed"? Why in the midst of something so big was that pointed out (twice?!) It was also as if they had to do a reshoot and needed to explain why it was different- from what I could tell it was all bleached instead of having the tips darker as before. The other interpretation is it happened after she signed the book and the new power changed her hair as representation of her new state, but it was downright distracting a thing to point out the way they did for seemingly no reason.

R499 I believe the parents supposedly died in an aiplane crash. If that memory is correct, then there may not have been recovered bodies to bury and bring back to life.

Some aspects of the story are references to the comic. The hair is one of those. Sabrina from Archie Comics has always had stark white hair, usually in a bob with a headband. On the show, she had blonde hair—until something changed, and her hair is a physical representation of that big change in her nature and her story. She is enchanted. The hyper focus on her hair color is a wink to people who read the comic book and may have been annoyed she was a cute blonde instead of having white hair, frankly a departure from the cutesy sitcom in which Melissa Joan Hart’s Sabrina had long blonde hair—telling us this is a witch, not a cute little high school girl—and a signal that something in her very nature has changed. She made a decision that changed who she is and that is being expressed by her hair color (typical of rebellious teens).

🐑 you say

......

R502 Harvey is more attractive with half his face covered.

........

R503 that's it, I'm telling the Dark Lord about you.

R504 Can't wait!

Gavin Leatherwood does a...thing for Thanksgiving.

Does that mean Netflix or the show follow the British TV tradition of having Christmas Specials (like, Doctor Who for example)?

That would be so cool.

Gavin looks like young Marlon Brando. He also looks like he has the same potential to get super fat

We get the Christmas special soon, and then the next 10 episodes are dropping in April.

This show is not making its fans wait, I'll give the production that.

Gavin seems like family, based on his social media.

Wow, the trailer at r511 looks amazing. Great use, and version, of Cherry Bomb.

Yeah I don't get any straight vibes from his Instagram R512

The “caught in the middle of reading or drinking coffee or sexy-lounging” voyeur pictures on his Instagram are cloying.

[quote] Gavin seems like family, based on his social media.

Not trying to go into the whole "is he or isn't he gay" discussion, but I wonder if his social media presence is more aimed at building a gay / female fanbase from the show since, I presume, that's the show's main demographic?

I don't see how his instagram is gay (or straight for that matter).

It IS annoying and cloying though.

R517 I think “it’s gay” basically means he is shirtless and not bro-y and makes gay guy’s dicks hard.

I loved the show except for that annoying Susie character.

The only thing I would like to see the show do differently in season two is to raise the stakes by making death real and not a viewer fakeout. I thought it was awesome and awful when Sabrina killed the sister-witch...and I was so disappointed when she came back because it meant, as with American Horror Story, there are no real stakes to death, which really relaxes the drama into farce. I am OK with Hilda being buried and clawing her way back over and over as a comic device, but without real consequences somewhere, what’s the point of it all?

Major spoiler from the comics:

....

....

In the comic (the TV show didn’t do this), Harvey follows Sabrina into the woods on her birthday and he comes across the Satanic ritual. He runs away. The coven hunts him down and kills him. Sabrina goes against her aunts’ warnings and casts a spell to bring him back, and his body comes back but it’s actually her father who has possessed the body like Mme Satan possessed the body of her teacher. “Harvey” returns home and eats his own parents’ faces off after gathering information he needs from them, and then he heads off to see his daughter, Sabrina. She is overjoyed that her spell worked and tries to “make up with Harvey.” Harvey, being her father, is freaked out...but then he decides Sabrina is pretty hot and starts to think about fucking her. That’s where the series stopped.

The comic is a lot darker and also has higher dramatic stakes. I hope the TV series at least takes up some of the storytelling notes from the original.

[quote] making death real and not a viewer fakeout. I thought it was awesome and awful when Sabrina killed the sister-witch

It would be pretty out of character at that point for Sabrina to just kill that chick, it was obvious there was a plan with the already introduced pit.

R521 Yes, it would be out of character, but it’s an incredibly dark show. Consider that she just signed her soul away to Satan. Killing a person as part of a bargain and then having to live with dire consequences of conscience and more would be perfectly in character for this series. That is how the books are set up. The bargain for bringing Harvey back in the comic book is that she has to kill an innocent person (and that person stays dead). She hesitates, and so death decides for itself who to take in Harvey’s place, and she is the cause of that death. There’s no cop out.

[Quote] Harvey, being her father, is freaked out...but then he decides Sabrina is pretty hot and starts to think about fucking her.

Yeah R523, it’s dark. But it IS about a bunch of people who serve Satan and who eat and sacrifice human beings and have fun doing it. That’s the tension with Sabrina being half human—she has a sense of morality her family and her community totally reject.

[quote]Yes, it would be out of character, but it’s an incredibly dark show.

You say that as if it explains it away. It's fine for something to be "dark", but it has to make narrative sense. Sabrina killing that girl at that point wouldn't have made narrative sense for the character. It would have been poor writing, I don't doubt Sabrina is going to kill someone at some point, but I am sure it will have felt earned. That is good writing. Just like the show spent a season building up to Sabrina signing the book, it earned that moment.

I kinda get that Sabrina burning the souls of the hanged witches means that they are dead-dead.

It was a great power reveal.

All I got from your gif is that Tyler Hoechlin is a bad actor r523.

[Quote] All I got from your gif is that Tyler Hoechlin is a bad actor [R523].

She needs to be raped by the Dark Lord. Then she can be depressed and suicidal for the second half of the first season.

R529 So a supernatural version of 13 Reasons Why??

I think they did Devil rape in Salem too.

This show is very strange. I think Michelle Gomez’s Miss Wardwell/Madam Satan is supposed to be the “big bad,” but I can’t help but love her and root for her. She may eat pizza boys and virgins for lunch, but she is vampy and campy and I just want her to “win.”

r532- she had always played villians you couldn't help root for.

Madame Satan is sympathetic in the comic in some ways. She’s evil now but she is acting out of recenge; she was in love with Sabrina’s father, and he rejected her for Sabrina’s human mother. Madame Satan (not yet Madame Satan) was so distraught that she threw herself into a lion exhibit at a zoo and was eaten alive. She descended to hell and willed herself back here to seek revenge. She found out that Sabrina’s father had only used Sabrina’s mother and then cast a spell on her to make her insane, committing her to an insane asylum. Madame Satan went there to kill her but felt sorry for her and gave her back her sanity—and realized that doing that was a great revenge, because living in an insane asylum as a sane person who no one believes is sane is a kind of hell like the one she lived through.

Sabrina’s dad sounds like a real prince.

R535 He was the head of Satan’s church. You expect Mr. Nice Guy? That’s why the Dark Lord is so interested in Sabrina. Her father was the worst.

So I’m assuming the tv show will eventually reveal her father’s douchery?

It's a Gothic comic book r537, that would be ARCH douchery.

Ross is so hot.

I believe they already hinted at Sabrina's father being an asshole for signing his daughter over to Satan shortly after she was born.

Yeah, some of the story has been changed for the show but it seems pretty inescapable that Sabrina’s dad was awful. He had the same job as Father Blackwood, who is evil, but he was regarded as far better/worse than Blackwood—so that means he was pretty damned bad.

Sabrina already has questioned whether the deaths of her parents in a plane crash was an accident...so we are set up to learn more about them and what they may have been up to. I’m guessing they will have changed the story somewhat, but we’ll still learn her dad was not someone she’ll be totally proud of. (Or maybe she will be proud of how horrible he was and then learn how he violated her mother and have an epiphany...I could see that happening.)

[Quote] I think Michelle Gomez’s Miss Wardwell/Madam Satan is supposed to be the “big bad,” but I can’t help but love her and root for her.

I had never heard of Michelle Gomez but she's great as Lilith.

I hate the random people eating. Is no one going to notice, in such a small town, that people are missing at such a high rate?

R543 Sunnydale syndrome??

R543

It is hinted that the pizza-boy was already dead in another show in the same universe. So it could be part of the universe building that the boundaries between the living and the dead are generally different here.

I loved this scene.

Also the CAOS Twitter account reads like it's run by a 14 year old girl.

Yep r544. I loved Buffy, but you had to pretend that anybody would live in Sunydale which was a small town with the murder rate of Syria.

You know what would be the final death blow for the village? HER moving to town.

[Quote] I loved Buffy, but you had to pretend that anybody would live in Sunydale which was a small town with the murder rate of Syria.

Well unless you were the Mayor.

Refresh my memory...didn’t Hilda move out at the end of season one? She is still living in the house in the Christmas special. I’m guessing it was filmed as a season one episode and then held to be releases as a holiday promotion...?

I thought she was just moving into another bedroom in the house.

Right. They shared a bedroom. She still lives in the house, just in a different room now.

Oh OK, thanks for the clarification. :) I was also confused that Ambrose was told to leave the house i this episode, but I guess his home-imprisonment curse was broken at the end of last season when he went to the school, huh?

Has anyone filed a lawsuit against pseudo sister show Riverdale for having a gargoyle statue in the way CAOS is for their baphomet statue?

I enjoyed the Xmas episode. But i wish Sabrina hadn't interfered with Harvey and his dad. You'd think she would know better after what happened with Tommy.

R555 Where would the drama come from if she didn’t make mistakes?

R556 Does it have to be the exact same one??

Don't ya'll have jobs?!

I have to admit I was a bit underwhelmed by the Christmas episode. I liked the yuletide brats and their mother though. The whole Sabrina and Harvey stuff was so uncomfortably awkward for me. Clearly he's never going to be ok with her being a witch. It's like a gloomy version of Bewitched couple Samantha and Darrin.

Miranda Otto voices Zelda as if she were playing Dr. Frank N. Furter.

I miss the hot brother. I'm not gonna lie, I once had a wank imagining the character he played fucking his brother (Ross Lynch). I sort of felt bad but since Lynch is 22 I thought why the hell not. They had great chemistry but mostly I just found Justin Dobies so incredibly likable and sexy. Lynch looks like a little troll with great abs but with Dobies he was passable.

Lynch looks disturbingly teen-y in this shot. Eww and yikes. Dobies is so adorable, and the dad is sexy as well.

R559 it was supposed to be awkward. I don't really blame Harvey for feeling that way.

I read the first volume of the comic book and i really enjoyed it. I didn't realize how many differences there were going to be between the comic and the tv show. I also wasn't expecting Betty & Veronica to be in it.

[quote]I was also confused that Ambrose was told to leave the house i this episode, but I guess his home-imprisonment curse was broken at the end of last season when he went to the school, huh?

Yes, they wrote that very poorly. The scene where it happened explained that Ambrose was being given special permission to go to the academy to work for Blackwood, but since then he has seemed able to freely move around.

I didn't love the holiday special either, all the stuff with her Mom just didn't work for me. Still happy they gave it to us though.

Ambrose is allowed to leave the house with Blackwood's blessing basically claiming that Ambrose does errands for him.

The Christmas Special was a perfect time to devote to exposition about her mother.

Thoroughly enjoyed it.

Liked how Krampus got turned into Lumière at the end.

What a Light Bearer.

I thought the Christmas episode was really weak. I get it was essentially a “bottle” episode but it just didn’t pull me in. No stakes, no high drama.

Wish Amrbose would've been given some more time with Luke during the special. Maybe a kiss under the mistletoe or something? Oh well...

*Ambrose

[Quote] No stakes, no high drama.

I wasn't really expecting for that to happen in this particular episode.

Christmas episodes, tend to be revelatory not conflict resolving.

The Brits have turned this into a science.

I love Kiernan but she's wrong for this part. She's too cute and boyish and pull off anything close to dark glory. When she needs to get all dark and dramatic, I just laugh.

I found her cute boyishness quite enjoyable as she burnt the souls of the 13.

THAT was dark glory!

Face it, this little wallflower ain't Sabrina.

That looks more like Cousin Serina in a blonde wig...

She is half way between that and MJH.

That's Sabrina herself, love.

I know, sweetie. And she is a version of Sabrina.

I guess I was not clear.

I don't know why many don t like Ambrose, but he's one of my favorites. Not bad to look at either.

...who doesn't like Ambrose r578? He seems to be a very popular character.

Some people earlier were saying he needed a bag over his head etc. others online said he is annoying and hammy. I didn't get it, the guy's hot and he brings another dimension to his and Sabrinas family that was much needed.

If you are going to search for negative comments you will always be able to find them, in general Ambrose is a very well liked character both here and on reddit, which are the two places I've followed discussion of the show.

Idk, you are fighting a battle that doesn't need fighting.

Ambrose felt like he was added so that several boxes could be checked off.

Not fighting, R581. Was just curious.

Sabrina gets an early renewal for seasons 3 and 4.

Though they will be 8 episodes each, rather than 10 like 1 and 2.

So did they give up the whole Season 1 A and B thing and next year is season 2 after all?

Looks like instead of splitting up the seasons, they're just making each their own season number.

Realistically, this is basically just them announcing season 2 instead of season 3 and 4.

It's great.

Great beginning, great ending. They struggled mightily in the middle. Pacing needs work. But the foundation for a great show is here

[Quote] So did they give up the whole Season 1 A and B thing and next year is season 2 after all?

I hate it when they do that.

Sabrina and The OA are the only Netflix shows I’ve really liked a lot. Everyone I know loves Black Mirror but it is too bleak for me.

How did i not see this coming?

Did Sabrina and Harvey fuck in the woods in Ep 2?

R592 nope

I don’t know how she kept her hands off him after he took his shirt off though. That boy is fine as fuck. I guess the infernal hearing that could send her to hell and rapidly kill her aunties was a little stressful though.

So cute and natural. Yet Harvey is so dumb.

Was Aunt Hilda putting love potion into that guy's coffee?

It's still season 1, part I and II, the people who report on it are just confused/not detail-oriented. They are doing the same thing with Disenchanted, the new Matt Groenig series (which is okay, not great).

What is really the distinction between 1 and 2, and 1a and 1b? It's seems just arguing over semantics.

There was a string of episodes, a story arc that comes to some conclusions and then a long hiatus before a new batch of episodes.

Link to the next thread!

r597 Netflix calls it Season 1, part 1 and part 2 is coming next year. It is sort of semantics I guess, but it annoys me when the reviewers ignore that and just call it season 1 and season 2 because it makes it even more confusing.

Thread closed!