"The Conners"

Estelle Parsons has found the fountain of youth thanks to her 5 Oscars and countless other awards. She is 97 but looks 37. What is her secret?

Do they really think they can get away with killing the titular character of a TV show off?

Oh go blow it out of your titty bag!

DJs black Army wife is a bible thumper.

It will be interesting to see where this show goes from here. Roseanne Conner was such a force of nature. Hard to imagine the clan without her.

DJ married the lil black girl he wouldn't kiss back in the 90s right? Now it all makes sense. Deej got jungle fever.

This is really bad. I think it's super disrespectful to the character the way they're writing her demise. It's way too jokey and the tone is way off. As someone commented online yesterday - the writers better get started on the Lazarus script.

Why is John Goodman wearing a hearing aid?

It's just too weird. This isn't going to last.

Well, Darlene's gender-bending son is officially gay and out.

I actually think it's quite good so far. Much, much better than I was expecting.

I also thinks it’s good.

This is depressing as fuck. I agree the tone is way off. It's like half the cast is acting in a comedy and the others in a drama. And what happened to Goodman?

This is a poor mans version of the Auntie Barbara episode from season five.

IDK, I think all the actors are doing a phenomenal job of working through a really difficult situation. If the matriarch of a family was suddenly ripped away, it would not be easy. It remains to be seen where the show will find its footing in the future, but so far they are firing on all cylinders this episode.

It’s shit.

Oh, nice. Now they're blaming her for her death. This show is toast and I don't think it's good at all contrary to the supposed rave reviews.

Mary Steenburgen knocked the hell out of that brief scene.

Dying of and opiade overdose is an ode to deplorables

The deplorables can bitch all they want, it's a good episode.

Was Goodman this thin recently?

R13 Last season was laugh-free and everyone except the two Beckys and Beverly looked like the fucking Walking Dead. Yes, I am so sure it is firing on all cylinders, wanker.

Steenburgen was really great. They should bring her back.

Goodman looks ill.

I'm no Deplorable and I think the episode sucked. They didn't set the right tone at all. We need to start a thread on when they'll cancel the show or raise Roseanne from the dead.

R21, they're probably setting her up as Dan's new love interest. Another really bad idea.

I liked it. Very funny and moving. I have no idea if they can sustain it, but it was good.

oooh, i was waiting for that into. it was ok.

i think overall this episode is B. it doest suck.

R21, one of the reviews I read said the same, that they should find a way to bring Steenburgen back. I agree that she did a fabulous job tonight in that brief scene with Goodman.

Perhaps, with time, she could return as Dan's love interest.

Did they forget Dan slept on the other side of the bed? At least get one fucking thing right.

[quote]The deplorables can bitch all they want

You can think Roseanne deserved to be fired AND still think this is a stinking pile of shit.

Under twenty posts before this stupidity showed up, BTW. I would have pegged this rationale to show up immediately. DL., you're slipping.

Mary Steenburgen broke my heart.

R28, this episode was no worse than any of the first season of the reboot. And it was a lot better than many of them. So yes, it was a good episode.

That's great R29. One always wants to be moved to tears while watching a comedy series. Bravo writers.

Why ABC Decided to Do "Roseanne" Without Roseanne:

R28 based on their political beliefs DLers have never been too bright. In fact they are mostly moronic and celebrate how ignorant they are every minute of their waking day.

What's scary is that Roseanne went on the air in October 1988. Thirty years ago!

I wonder if Roxanne insisted on an opiade death before she signed away her rights

R35 is Mrs. Wellman.

I still think of Harris as Debs.

I wouldn’t watch this if you paid me.

Did they donate her body to Trump University Med School?

I'll be interested to see the ratings.

R7/R31, which is it troll? Too jokey or no comedy show should ever move you to tears?

I thought it was pretty darned good. But of course I'm disappointed that those bastards killed Roseanne the way they did. Agree its very disrespectful. I wanted the fat bitch to choke on a chicken bone as she falls into a grease fire. And Valerie Jarrett makes a cameo as a bystander who laughs.

I would have loved if Valerie Jarrett made a cameo

Valerie should have played the woman who give Roseanne the pills that killed her.

Was John Goodman high? Or ill? He seemed off and the whole show was depressing as fuck.

I'm no troll, R41. The entire tone of the show was off. It was much too dismissive of her death in the first act with nothing but tone-deaf jokes which didn't land.

As for the later scenes, I don't need some sad ass character I've never seen before sharing screentime discussing the main character's death with Dan while the audience figures out she'll probably be his new love interest. What was her fucking name? Marge? Let's rename the goddamn show "Marge!" while we're at it.

The ratings will be high because people tuned in out of curiosity. From there I think it'll drop significantly off after that.

it made me feel sorry for Roseanne - she was once very creative, interesting and funny. of course she was always batshit crazy.

[quote] Mary Steenburgen broke my heart.

MARY!

The "Shameless" chick Emma Kenney and Sara Gilbert are making out like bandits, they both have two TV gigs.

Did they forget Jerry and Jackie' kid again?

Very well done. The episodes screened got rave reviews. All the critics say that the show is back to being blue collar and no longer Trump thanks to Roseanne being off the show. She was forcing it on the writers. They all say the show is a million times better without Roseanne.

R52 those are the same writers that come from very narrow backgrounds. We'll have to wait to see what regular people think of it.

Ok, they can end the whole saga now. That was enough.

R52, the only time I recall her mentioning Trump was in the season premiere last season. They had Jackie balance it out with a punch line about voting for Jill Stein.

Agree with R55. The show itself was never Trump centric. What critics didn't like was the statements of the real Roseanne. There was no issue with the fictional Roseanne.

The episode was odd. I grew up watching the whole series. It was like "a very special episode" - except now that it's over, it will not go back to normal unlike those episodes. The next week preview looked slightly funny...hard to tell. It wasn't really funny tonight. It was all over the place. It's odd to watch Roseanne (who I think was in every episode since the beginning) with no Roseanne. I can't think of any sitcoms that would work if you killed off their central character. Game of Thrones can do it. It's just very awkward here.

What a disaster! Did most of the regular cast members really need the money that desperately?

[quote]Did they forget Dan slept on the other side of the bed? At least get one fucking thing right.

He switched sides in last year's reboot because he had a CPAP machine now and there is no night stand on the other side. Pay attention.

Not true r55, they did she about snowflakes and illegals, then it was the Muslims next door. It was turning into Fox News and the writers were getting fed up.

Not true r55, they did shit about snowflakes, hitting your kids, and illegals, then it was the Muslims next door, etc. It was turning into Fox News and the writers were getting fed up.

I wasn't expecting to like it as much as I did. I'll give it a chance. Plus, the new show on after it has a hot college guy in tight jeans.

Did they show them dancing and pissing on her grave?

[quote]I can't think of any sitcoms that would work if you killed off their central character.

Hear! Hear!

Way better than I expected. Those saying that there shouldn't be drama or crying in a comedy show must not have seen the Darlene poem episode back in the day.

[quote]Valerie Hogan’s Car Wreck

There's a huge difference. They only did... what 15-20 episodes with her? Roseanne has been in over 230 episodes.

I saw Estelle Parsons (w/ Ellen Burstein) is the audience at the Public Theater last year. Both women looked absolutely fabulous. Wonderful to see these remarkable women together!

Who is Ellen Burstein?

R60, R61, and however many other pseudo duplicate posts you have floating around, the Muslim episode was a teaching moment, remember? As I recall Trump supporters were pissed at that ep because they made the neighbors sympathetic characters.

It actually does work, and I didn't even "miss" Roseanne. Not sure how that will play in future episodes. I think they would be very smart to tone down Jackie and write her more like the earlier seasons.

R59, how can I pay attention when ABC pulled all eps from season 10 and refused to produce a season 10 dvd of the series? They have removed all traces of this show and wiped it from the internet as if it never happened.

They did the best they could moving the show forward by dealing with her death in the first episode. Hopefully the rest of the season will be pure comedy. But Goodman did seem off. He's got the look that a lot of people get when they lose a ton of weight with no carbs. All gaunt and pasty.

I thought maybe he had gastric bypass.

I thought it was very good. I'll be watching next week. I did not miss Roseanne and that god awful voice of hers at all.

Is Jackie's hockey coach boyfriend coming back? Hewas cute, if violent.

Was he the one who beat her up?

What appended to Crystal's kids, Lonnie was in a bunch of eps way back? I assume Dan's father died. I bet they would bring Arnie back just to stick the knife into Roseanne further.

john goodman looked horrible..

R78: funny, but Goodman looked good on all the interviews promoting the show. On the show he looked like the character he's playing, a stressed out man in his 60s.

No deplorable liked Roseanne, the show. They turned it on, turned off the volume until it was over. They just wanted to give it ratings.

R27 - no, he didn't.

Did Dan try to salvage his Kung Fu coupon?

I didn't expect to like it...but I did. The writers handled the situation as gracefully as they could have. Dan was cute helping his gay grandson decide which boy to sit with on the bus. Before, I don't think he would have done it, but with Roseanne gone, I guess he's trying to fill in the gap. And I think Darlene doesn't know her son is gay; Dan kept the kid's secret.

Where was Nancy?

That was pointless and quite wretched. Why can't they let these shows just die?

Spot on, R59! Good episode. Yet I kept waiting for Roseanne to come in and give the boost of a few jokes. Steenburgen nailed her few tracks. Little else of the episode was played at that level. Most of the family was good, but …… don't see this as a big success. Might last a season, even a renewal, but …

Network tv is still a thing? That's funny.

I thought it was actually really solid. Liked a lot of it. Didn't watch last season so was happy to see Crystal.

The only distraction was Mary Steenburgen. who looked like she was reading cue cards the entire time.

Steenburgen was brilliant! I hope she comes back as a regular

I watched it because I can't stand Roseanne anymore and wanted to see it without her, so what do I get? An entire show memorializing Roseanne! Ugh. Maybe later this season when they can stop talking about her.

R90 I think they had to do that, obviously. It would be kinda weird if they just didn't mention her again.

I'd much rather watch the Connors. A show about the home life of Chrissy Lu Connors who had little tits and dingy brown hair.

I kind of like the dynamic without Roseanne. Her presence still looms over the whole thing and there's ten years of history to draw from and recall, but in a way, it's a better tribute to the original character without her actually being there than seeing her portrayed by the Roseanne Barr of today who is so incongruent with Roseanne Conner of the past.

[quote] She is 97 but looks 37

Not quite. She turns 91 in November.

This was a good show. Suck it roseanne!

Meanwhile, the real Roseanne is smearing her shit on the walls of her luxurious mansion, mumbling to herself, "It's all George Soro's fault".

It was meh. Not so good acting, stupid laugh track, dumb one liners. Made sense that Dan would react to his addicted wife's death by blaming others before he had all the facts. Typical deplorable.

r96 That is likely scarily accurate.

Not quite, R96. Roseanne tweeted this after it aired on the East Coast: "I AIN'T DEAD, BITCHES!!!"

She'll have the last laugh you can count on it.

She's not dead, R99, but, her career is deader than Shelley Winters.

Wasn't she heading off to Israel?

I thought she was getting off twitter.

Haven't watched but am excited to.

I'm reading through all of your opinions now.

In terms of format, one way to echo the original is to have a lot special guest stars in upcoming episodes, if Roseanne's void becomes to unnoticeable. And not just any special guest stars but MAJOR actors, actresses, and maybe even political, athletic and other entertainment figures. Write juicy parts or topical cameos into the show and have the family react and interact with them in honest, exploratory and of course humorous ways.

Okay,. going back to read your opinions.

Shelly Winters played her grandmother in the series, R100. I'm surprised they didn't dig her up and prop her up next to one of the other scintillating C-List actors who now make up the cast. Fun game - who looks more alive - Shelly Winters or Sara Gilbert?

P.S. I'm sure through John Goodman and Laurie Metcalf, they could get some MAJOR players.

John Goodman, for example, is extremely good friends with Jessica Lange and she did a supporting part in Horace and Pete (which she was excellent in), so I'm sure she'd come out for Goodman.

[quote] The entire tone of the show was off. It was much too dismissive of her death in the first act with nothing but tone-deaf jokes which didn't land.

Gallows humour is exactly how their family would deal with someone dying, especially Roseanne if it hadn’t been her.

She overdosed, took the pills before bed and died in her sleep

.they thought it was a heart attack

but autopsy revealed it was an overdose.

I suggested she should've died in the bathroom in an homage to the famous pot smoking scene where Jackie is sitting in the tub and Roseanne outside in the edge.

Imagine.... Dan knocking on the bathroom in door checking to see if everything is is alright and no answer

DJ's military wife knocks down the door and they see Roseanne face down on the floor!

There's no structure to this show. It was like they threw everything at the wall to see what would stick. The only dependable character on The Conners is the set.

R106, that's my quote and I understand Roseanne's gallows humor. "He's fine. He sends his love." is one of the funniest scenes in the show's history. But we're talking about them killing off the fucking star of the series here, the tentpole character, so I'll say it again - for me the jokes were tone deaf and I didn't find them funny. I felt the whole show was off and it was done in such a dismissive way in which they chose to say goodbye to an iconic character.

If it didn't include a funeral...

R108, I think mourning her death is going to be an on-going thing on the show. It's not a one and done.

Oh for fucks sake, go watch the episode with Jackie and Roseannes dad's death to see how the show has dealt with death. It was one of the best wishes of the series (if not THE best) and spawned DLs favorite line He's fine, he sends his love.

Cast Discussion...

He's fine. He sends his love.

[quote]Not so good acting

The acting was so bad. Most of those people should be thanking their lucky stars they have an acting gig because they are terrible.

Roseanne is not fine. She does not send her love! Bitches!

Weird thing is that the girl who plays Deb on Shameless is one of the best actors on that show, she is a natural while some of them act like they are in a middle school production.

R111, stop comparing a tertiary character to the fucking lead. Fucking idiots cheering on this untalented ragtag cast haven't a clue how pissed viewers are that they killed off Roseanne. They should have let the show die but instead, ABC and that rapacious talentless Sara Gilbert had to keep the gravy train rolling along. Fuck them.

You'll notice none of the younger cast worked after Roseanne ended. Sara Gilbert shopped The Talk idea to CBS and put herself at the table, because who the hell would hire her for an acting gig? And now she's like the lead of this show? Please.

Are you a Trumpster, R117? You sound like a mad Trumpster.

[quote]John Goodman, for example, is extremely good friends with Jessica Lange and she did a supporting part in Horace and Pete (which she was excellent in), so I'm sure she'd come out for Goodman.

Constance Langdon rents a room from the Conners.

"DJ...where's that colored child of yours? I need her to run down to the Ko-Ree-ans and fetch me some ciggies."

"Why Mark, what a fashionable little ensemble you have attired yourself in today. After all, you people are supposed to be so styyyyylish."

Looking forward to next weeks episode, where Darlene drives the fam over the Landford bridge that is being renovated, only to discover Roseanne fell into one of the cement pilings just adjacent to Crystal's husband many years ago. Spoilers; in the next 6 years, every cast member ends up in a cement piling under the Landford bridge at some point....

I expected the show to fall flat, but the writers did an admirable job of dealing with the circumstances. They squeezed a lot into 22 minutes. Each character had a small, but significant moment. Jackie's disruptive sofa cleaning and manic kitchen disorganizing were clever running gags that gave unforced laughs and led to Jackie's dramatic conversation with Darlene. It was a classic Roseanne moment when Jackie poked Darlene with the corn cob handles during their hug.

John Goodman did look thinner and worn down, but I'm sure that was very intentional. He has looked better lately, promoting the show. He seemed like he was more alive on this episode, not just sleep walking through it, like some of last season.

They waited until the next-to-last segment and then segued the scene directly into the to their first Rosanne-less camera pan of the kitchen as we heard the first Roseanne-less harmonica theme-song. It was very artfully done and a clever nod to the family's finding their new normal.

Let's get back to R1 and Estelle Parsons, shall we? I mean, how in the world could ABC afford to hire her, in light of her 6 Oscars, 8 Tonys, 4 Emmys, 2 Grammys, her Sarah Siddons award, her Peabody, her 16 Pulitzer prizes and countless Nobels?

Who is Estelle Parsons?

What is google?

(The gay gasp!)

R122 - I just did a quick search. A few threads with Estelle Parsons' name came up, but I don't know which thread you're referring to. Please post if you can.

Parsons is actually 97. She lied about her age.

R11 And she could come during a Halloween special, like the old run.

That homage would be EVERYTHING.

I found this so sad to watch.

Wow, R129. She's tragic. ABC should have ended the show. It won't last past this season anyway. There is no Roseanne without Roseanne Barr. Just a bunch of unattractive depressed people in an ugly house.

She is such a narcissist and a pathological liar. A very dangerous and evil woman.

R131 Drink some bleach, bitch. No one gives a fuck what a cunt like you thinks.

R132 Consider the possibility that R130 and R131 are both right. That clip was amazing. She's sad and tragic, but still quite the narcissist. I don't think she's a pathological liar though, I think she's just delusional. She's lamented that the show went on without her, but wasn't she vocal in begging ABC to continue the show so that the others wouldn't be out of work? Every other week she changes the story.

What I also found so interesting is that she's back to being close to her mom. When did that happen? I recall her cutting her parents off years ago, accusing them of molestation. I must have missed a couple chapters. Could somebody please fill me in?

ABC has been dead last in ratings for years. It is practically a dead network with not one good show on it. There is no audience for The Conners. It will hugely fail. The only one who was irreplaceable on Roseanne was Roseanne. Sara Gilbert is loathsome. Her only hook is being a lesbian. There is absolutely nothing interesting about her. None of the other characters are interesting either.

Some of the r129 clip comments were out of the blue. She has never talked about her parents before, that I can recall.

Where is she in that video anyway? Some condo building in LA? It looks kind of drab for someone with all those Emmys and other awards.

She had a career that was more successful than the vast majority of people on the planet, and it was basically over already (with millions in the bank & reruns 24/7 sending her residuals, what could be the issue). The revival of her show was a rare event that only a handful of sitcoms are getting (out of desperation by the networks). I can only feel bad for her for a minute in the video until I realize the rest of the above. Her "life's work" was not taken from her. It's all still there. Well over 200 episodes of it...plus emmys... plus millions of dollars. How many people get that in life?

I mean, she never talked about her parents other than claiming she was molested by them & then going back on that. I didn't even know they were still alive. If she lives in Hawaii most of the time, how often does she really even see them?

I wish someone would work with Sara Gilbert and help her make facial expressions. She started to look natural when she was beginning to cry with Jackie. Otherwise, she makes the same smirk all the time.

I also wish they would have shown Dan weep. He bent over on the porch so we couldn’t see his face. Ironically, Goodman is one of two, maybe three, who could have made that scene really powerful.

There is no reason to feel sorry for Roseanne. She made her decision to tweet her nonsense. I am sure others warned her to watch what she tweeted. She is responsible for whatever repercussions she faced.

R135 Good point.

I just watched tonight's premiere. I was a huge fan of Roseanne seasons 2 thru 6. It went downhill after that. I thought the last season was practically unwatchable. For that reason, I had very low expectations for the reboot. And they were met! I think I saw maybe 5 of the episodes. Goodman was phoning it in, Metcalf continued the screeching caricature of later years, (after being so brilliant early on), and Roseanne seemed to have forgotten all she learned about acting after her amateurish first season in the original. The reboot had some decent moments but I thought it was mostly forced. I did like the relationship between the sisters, and the episode where Johnny Galecki came back seemed to raise everybody's game.

So I had no expectations for tonight's episode. Man, i thought it was pretty good. When Becky said that line about finding Roseanne's stash of pills, "Damn, that was the only thing in that closet I wanted!", I laughed really hard. And I think I laughed hard two more times. I think I only laughed hard twice throughout the entire first 8 episodes.....And I thought the final scene in the kitchen was inspired.

I'm somewhat excited now for the next episode. It's got Juliette Lewis. It can't be all bad.

Yes R139, Becky's line about the pills was so unexpected and non jokey and very funny. I agree. But the show will be nothing but deadly unless it goes very dark. There all too much like hillbillies now. It's depressing and I'm sorry but Laurie Metcalf is no reason to watch. I cringe when she appears. She's not as subtle as Granny Clampett.

Metcalf, Goodman, and Gilbert all look 200 years old. Watching them is disgusting. It is like a public service announcement. Don't let yourself waste away or turn into these old fucks. If anything The Conners is a horror series.

*They're...

Andy Ackerman directed this dreck of a premiere episode. He directed many Seinfeld episodes and every episode of my favorite series The New Adventures of Old Christine. He is a master director and none of his magic shone through in this horrible series. Metcalf trying to cry tonight was some of the worst acting I have ever seen.

I'm so glad this premiere sucked. As with a Wrinkle in Time, once again critics try the hardest to excuse a pile of shit, because of politics. If I were Roseanne I'd be laughing my way to the bank wit the 5 million deal she got to pull out of the deal and of course the dress-wearing boy comes out as gay, because we were running out of stereotypes, right?

Just take a stroll down social media and you'll see the reality, that people are pissed they killed off Roseanne over a stupid joke on a white person who would be considered black only in surreal America. I laugh every time someone here is called a Trumpster just because they have common sense and find this witch hunt on Roseanne stupid and hypocritical, last time I checked wasn't Trump a donor to the Clinton's? Are you so naive that you think there's any difference between these rich cold hearted sociopaths?

What is stupid and hypocritical is for you to write that post while speaking passively about Trump, as if you did not vote for him.

One less deplorable is always a good thing for the planet!

R146 Put your head back in your disgusting shithole, Ms All roads lead to Trump. The adults are trying to talk.

[quote]And I think Darlene doesn't know her son is gay; Dan kept the kid's secret.

He wears girls clothes...I think she knows.

[quote]my favorite series The New Adventures of Old Christine

Holy shit!

I'm fascinated by the 'almost bot-like" naysayers on this and other discussions on other sites who are so on-message with disparaging this show and lamenting the absence of the authoritarian.

Of course, everyone that disagrees with you voted for Trump and is a card holding member of the KKK, there's no nuance. Your childish unhinged approach to making everything about politics is the reason Donal Trump became the president and it will remain the reason he is reelected. I thought the other post showing that most of America hates the PC culture should be an indicative of how your radicalism elected the orange buffoon, but I guess that's too much sophistication for such a singled minded idiot.

R150 STFU, cunt. We are not talking about Trump.

R141 - How do you expect them to look for 66 and 63, especially after Goodman lost so much weight? Metfcalf hasn't had any plastic surgery & doesn't really go heavy on the makeup (and the show doesn't use much for the "blue collar look") so she looks 63.

Bea Arthur was 63 on Season 1 of the Golden Girls... but styled to look much better & she already had a facelift by then - and possibly her eyelids done too.

R148 I think he's probably the Trump supporter.

Notice how he spoke more passively about Trump than you did ("these rich cold hearted sociopaths).

Part of their tactics here now include using Trump as a divide and conquer tool by accusing those that obviously don't support him of supporting him!

Do they have the same director they had on the old shows with Roseanne? It's always interesting to see how bad some actors (who we're used to putting in great performances) can be if they have a bad director. Some actors need to be told every move to make, down to the tiniest nuances of their performance, in order to give a good performance. While other actors really don't need a director at all. They inherently know what is needed and how to get the job done.

I think John Goodman is one of those actors who needs to be hand held every step of the way.

R155 Someone just said who directed the episode, you moron. Do you know how to read?

Because it's right to defend free speech. The truth is that most of "The Connors" would have voted for Trump, except for Darlene and Jackie. But so much was made out of the initial storyline that the character of Roseanne Conner voted for Trump that it only served to attract more deplorables. The show had a lot to teach and say given enough time and was far from being right wing propaganda. I know that Roseanne is a narcissist who has told many different stories about her infamous "tweet", but I think her first one was probably the most true.

She should never have been fired and had her own creation and intellectual property taken from her. She does have mental illness and she always tweeted some crazy shit. She has gone nuts about Israel and it has colored all her politics and paranoia. She SHOULD have stayed off twitter but the show was such a success they had her on non stop press tours and she got too far away from her safer mental state. Of Hawaii.

I loathe Donald Trump and have never voted anything but liberal democrats my whole life. Think what you want. I think Roseanne was fired for exactly the reason she says here:

[quote] Part of their tactics here now include using Trump as a divide and conquer tool by accusing those that obviously don't support him of supporting him!

Take your meds, you sound just like the right wing paranoids you are accusing others to be.

R158 Just ignore these unhinged psychopaths. It is Trump 24/7 with these fucking mentally ill tards.

R158 It's being done more than you think and I won't fucking have it!

[quote] Someone just said who directed the episode, you moron. Do you know how to read?

Yes shitstain I know how to read. I'm just not interested in reading all 159 replies on this thread. So how bout you take your bitchy little queen act somewhere else, you ignorant little loser.

Of course it is R160, and there's an entire Russian farm dedicated to attacking your IP with Trump propaganda, I'm sure they have your personal info at the KGB as we speak.

Now, back to reality, get a photo of Valerie and post anywhere on the Internet and you won't find a single person saying she's black, because she isn't. She looks like a white person, maybe with some native blood like Jhonny Depp or Joseph Gordon-Levitt. I agree with R157 and Roseanne was a scapegoat to unhinged political pundits.

I also think the bigwigs who fired Roseanne will regret soon enough what they did, social media is unanimously mad at her exit and if that article on Americans hating PC culture holds any truth, they won't have it.

The Conners will fail and disappear. ABC goes back to being bankrupt and irrelevant.

This will go down in TV history as one of the biggest fails of the Trump era, to cancel a #1 hit show based on a mean tweet and then resurrect it without its main attraction must be one of the stupidest decisions an executive has ever made. To anyone following Harvey Weinstein's case, there's a fat chance he will walk free, his witnesses are being proven to be liars under a sort of casting couch liaison and as deplorable as he is, it think it will also go down in film history as a possible fail as well. Too bad because there are many women who were actually raped by him I'm sure.

R1..Estelle Parsons, is one of the lucky ones, who looks better as she has gotten older.

R164 ABC paid for a second season order of ten episodes then Roseanne was fired. The money was already spent for actor's salaries, production costs etc. That is the only reason The Conners was created. With extremely poor ratings I doubt there will be another season.

R153 taking a brief detour away from the predictable political turn this thread has taken - one reason everyone looks so fucking ghastly is because of HDTV, which is friend to no one, not even the viewer. Everyone suffers. The lighting is flat and unflattering, almost like that seen late 1960s videotape. The makeup is horrible; it looks caked on and too orange, again like that often seen in videotaped tv, and actors look embarrassingly bad. Viewers have to sit and look at that mess. Aging is one thing; what happens through HDTV is another. It's the same thing on Will & Grace. Everyone looks like parchment slathered with orange frosting.

I thought it was excellent. Depressing, yes, and funny, and that was always the tone of Roseanne. I think they can preserve the series with Darlene and especially her daughter bringing the same kind of attitude Roseanne brought. Roseanne WAS perfect in the role but real-lofe Roseanne ruined her own career by bringing that baggage into the series. Becky and DJ remain terrible actors. John Goodman brings heavy pathos, and Jackie is a little *too* insane for me now, but I still like this update a lot. Darlene and her kids to me are the reason to watch.

Estelle is wonderful, but defying age is not a virtue, and she hasn’t defied age. Someone above said she looks 35. That person needs glasses.

That's true r167 but these two look that way in still pictures too.

screams Flop....

the network not thrilled with the show.

Wow, the show already has extremely poor ratings? The overnights haven't even been released yet, dipshits.

Roseanne sold her stake in the show. Period. She didn't have to, but she did.

Go away Trump trolls. You guys are astroturfing the entire internet over this. Nothing better to do?

Roseanne Conner is dead and the world is still turning. Imagine that.

[quote] John Goodman, for example, is extremely good friends with Jessica Lange and she did a supporting part in Horace and Pete (which she was excellent in), so I'm sure she'd come out for Goodman.

I doubt Jess would let herself be so down market wardrobe wise

I, too, miss "Roseanne," but not that thing that appeared in the revival last spring - the old one. She was a stand up comedian who grew into a pretty good actress in the first few seasons of the original show. The thing in the revival was unrecognizable. Good riddance.

‘The Conners’ Debut Ratings Steady With ‘Roseanne’ Finale; Falls From Opener

Down 35% from the Roseanne opener, the start of The Conners was just 4% better than the mothership series finale in metered market numbers. In fact, even with a massive marketing push, The Conners wasn’t even the highest rated show of Tuesday night. Though The Conners was ahead of This Is Us by 22% in the early numbers, it was CBS’ NCIS that topped the night with a 8.1/13 in metered market results with the fourth episode of its 16th season.

They saved the credits until the end of the show - will these be the new opening credits? Look at Sara Gilbert making sure everyone knows she’s the co-lead with John Goodman and not Laurie.

R165, wow, she looks in her 30s. 40s, tops. What's her secret?

[quote]I just watched tonight's premiere. I was a huge fan of Roseanne seasons 2 thru 6. It went downhill after that. I thought the last season was practically unwatchable. For that reason, I had very low expectations for the reboot. And they were met! I think I saw maybe 5 of the episodes. Goodman was phoning it in, Metcalf continued the screeching caricature of later years, (after being so brilliant early on), and Roseanne seemed to have forgotten all she learned about acting after her amateurish first season in the original. The reboot had some decent moments but I thought it was mostly forced.

R139, I felt the same way. Seasons 2-5 are some of my favorite television episodes ever (seriously). I thought season 6 started going downhill and then the last few seasons fell off a cliff in terms of quality. I was hoping that the reboot would be better but it turned out to be pretty mediocre. Goodman and Metcalf were so good during the earlier seasons and they were so bad during the reboot.

R177, Sara Gilbert is one of the producers.

Trying to compare ratings for the initial debut of Roseanne and The Connors premiere is absolutely ridiculous. The ratings were already falling from that colossal premiere by the finale.

Has anyone addressed Jackie's child in interviews? This really makes no sense as it would give Laurie Metcalf an entire other storyline to play.

No, R182. There are too many characters already.

[quote] I'm just not interested in reading all 159 replies on this thread.

And no one on this thread is interested in reading your one reply.

I think the actors somehow interjected the real, off screen relationships they had with Roseanne. The best being the line from Becky " mom always taught us to laugh inappropriately". Roseanne was more a comedian than actress. Comedian are usually inappropriately funny/dark.

This is good. She says she only smokes 10 cigs a day.

Becky's line was the best they had in the show & I bet they debated using a line like that to death.

I think it's a hard time to be funny on a sitcom sponsored by companies like P & G. Even in local stand up clubs, the comics have to deal with SJWs in the audience (god knows why humorless cunts go to standup shows, but they do... you hear them groan on Real Time with Bill Maher, in the audience during his monologue, too, when he's off color)

It IS weird that they've forgotten about both Jackie's kid and Jerry.

Although one of the stories for a young guy in that age range that would be timely would be opioid addiction, and Granny got that story for herself.....

Sarah Gilbert is playing herself now, a boring, ugly lesbian. The character Darlene, is long gone. This show sucks my hemmeroids.

They're soldiering on past someone's demise of opiate addiction. What other choice do they have?

I think it’s interesting that DL fave Natalie West has appeared in more seasons than Roseanne Barr herself.

Crystal’s revenge is kinda awesome in that way.

I agree Mary Steenburgen was really good in her cameo. The show kinda went to a “really good tv” moment in that scene.

How can anyone say Steenburgen was good? She was reading cue cards!

So what?

2.3/demo and 10 mil viewers/ highest rated show of the night in key demo - ABC is definitely pleased right now.

Better than Kevin Can Wait which made a mockery of his wife's death.

They have to allow for a huge chunk of curiosity viewing over Roseanne's death - it's a good number, but I hope they can sustain a good amount of it.

Am I guest starring this season? I can’t ever keep track

Why does this show so obsess Datalounge? Isn't it the antithesis of this site: fat, poor, ugly breeders being boring?

I don't get it.

[quote]It IS weird that they've forgotten about both Jackie's kid and Jerry.

You mean every relative has to be in the reboot? Maybe Jackie's kid who must be 25 or by now lives in another state and isn't still attached to his Mommy's tit.

But to not address Jerry or Jackie and Fred's kid is really stupid.

It did about as well as the final episode of the reboot 1.0

Nobody has discussed the casting of Mary Steenburgen which I thought was quite interesting. Anybody recall who one of Mary's closest girlfriends is????? Hillary Clinton!!

Mary grew up in Arkansas. One of the first public appearances of Bill and Hillary after the election loss was out to dinner in NY with Mary and Ted Danson.

R201's photo says it all. Why who wouldn't find comedy gold watching that loveable old scamp Dan Conner mourn his dead wife? Let's not forget the scintillating new female lead, why she gives Eve a run for her money in the looks and charm dept. doncha think? Look out Eve, Margo's not really dead.

Tinhats like R162 are really unhinged, at this point. "The Russians, the Russians!!!"...Jeebus. Meanwhile, the corporate oligarchy that actually runs things here appreciates the way your weird paranoia deflects attention away from them.

The show stunk. Saying that does not make anyone here a trump supporter or a Russian. It's likely that Goodman also supported Trump, btw, given what close pals he and Roseanne are. And the DJ guy is from a family of fundies, you know they all voted for him. So supporting this show is hardly being anti-trump.

You do realize that Roseanne wasn’t fired for a single tweet, right? It was simply the final straw. The crazy bitch was doxxing people. She was a PR nightmare.

I think the show wants to quickly leave Roseanne behind and move on--which is why the first episode seemed so dismissive of her.

R205, yes she was fired for that tweet specifically.

This show won't last till December.

wtf is doxxing and no google is not MY friend.

R209 Sorry you're too damn dumb and lazy to figure out things on your own.

Doxxing is when you release personal info (including name/address/phone) of people on the Internet, especially those you dislike.

Yeah, the Jarrett tweet was the last straw.

How they ever did the show with her after this is a head scratcher.

r198, a lot of people grew up with it when the big 3 networks still dominated & there were no DVRs yet. It was one of the top shows for 5-6 years, and at the time, only Cosby really was its main competitor (that I remember at least). It was also before reality TV took hold. It was a very funny, well written show regardless of the fact it had "breeders and fat people" on it. Are we only supposed to watch reality shows of twinks fighting over who has to eat a tic tac? Or Rupaul's Drag Race? Let me guess, you're under 30...

Roseanne also had out LGBTQ characters (Leon and Nancy) at a time when it was still relatively rare on TV.

Jerry helped Roseanne fake her death. We'll see him at the end of the season as part of the cliffhanger where he pulls up to the house with a mysterious woman in the back seat. Then Season 11 of Roseanne will start in the fall of 2019.

Oh I forgot about that. She got 30 million viewers to tune in for the back of Mariel Hemingway's head. That controversy was huge. Kraft foods pulled their ads... and the company was comprised heavily of fraus and gay men in the Chicago suburbs. But that was 1994!

They got less than half the ratings the show got when roseanne was in the cast. (Comparing opening nights).

End of story. Given ćuriosity factor now gone, they will get less than 20% of what Roseanne got.

Makes me happy those elitist, classist hollywood assholes got their comeuppance.

Jackie: What do you think it's like, anyway ... two women living together?

Roseanne: Oh, that's easy—"Hey, it's MY turn to be unselfish and giving!" "No, YOU got to be unselfish and giving yesterday! Today YOU have to be supportive and nurturing!"

Not funny at all. John Goodman looks terrible. This is like a car wreck. Once everyone gets a look, they will move on.

NYT Review

If this fails, since they brought Dan back from the dead for the reboot, and killed-off Rosanne for the re-reboot, they can bring Rosanne back for the re-re-reboot.

Does anybody know why they replaced DJ's african-american wife with a new actress? Why was the first one fired?

She tweeted that Kellyanne Conway looked like a jar of mayonnaise.

I thought a lot of the choices they made were really transparent. Suddenly DJ's wife, who barely made an appearance in the first season, is now a regular, her daughter (who didn't have any lines) suddenly is super verbal, Dan's black best friend is going to the bar with him, Mark's friends now include a Hispanic kid, and Mark is officially gay now.

All shows should include diversity, but the way they did it with the first episode was very desperate and patronizing to the audience. They already got rid of Roseanne. This sudden refocus on a multicultural cast feels very disingenuous and seems only designed to ward off claims of residual racism than an actual interest in telling the stories of these people.

Making Mary Steenburgens character , to be a love interest to Dan would make for a weird plot development . He would basically be dating the woman who helped contribute to his wife’s death

It was stupid of them to bring back the show at all. Crazy Roseane picked a lot of stupid battles, but she also picked some important ones. She was always the one on set that made sure the stories and jokes reflected the lives of actual working class Americans from middle America when writers from Harvard tried to pitch her hokey sitcom tropes. It was one of the most consistent sources of on-set tension during the original run of the show.

Now without that vanguard, the show seems like an another standard sitcom based on some wealthy writers idea of what poor white trash goes through. Sara Gilbert is an opportunistic game player. Fuck her. Laurie Metcalf deserves better than this. And I don't buy this bullshit "We're doing it for the crew" excuse. I'm sure the staff would have no trouble finding new jobs. And the revival was never intended to go past one season, so it wasn't like they were promised an open-ended run.

If you're going to bring back Roseanne, bring back Roseanne.

[quote]Does anybody know why they replaced DJ's african-american wife with a new actress? Why was the first one fired?

They pulled a Becky with her. Did the first actress also talk with such a black accent and was such a bitch to the family?

Is that the surgeon general from Grey's Anthony as Dan's best friend?

The same guy has always played Dan's best friend, going back 30 years. He looks great that man. SEXY. John Goodman looks dead, literally.

Since when was Dan best friends with a black man, and a black doctor at that? What would they have in common to talk about?

So the ratings for the premiere of The Conners were higher than the ratings for the season finale of Roseanne.

So the show can get higher ratings without her than with her.

Time will tell if this lasts.

IF the show lasts and IF there's a regime change at ABC, they could always do the 'it was a dream' thing. Didn't they do that with Dan's death?

R216. Yes, the ratings were down from last season's premiere but last night's ratings were basically on par with last season's finale. The show didn't tank like had been predicted. The question is was the steady ratings last night due to viewer curiosity? If it was, the numbers will tank next week.

I was a fan of the original series and own the DVDs for it. I thought last night's show was a vast improvement over the reboot, which never felt "right" to me. There was something very strained about it.

But for me The Conners works. The writing is much better and the cast seemed very comfortable with each other.

R224 I think Mary Steenburgen would make a great choice for Dan's love interest.

One other thing, The Conners was the number 1 show amongst 18-40 year olds last night, and even if the show loses half of its viewers over the coming weeks, it'll still be ABC's highest rated comedy. Basically, the Rosanne-less Rosanne show is not going anywhere for a while.

James Pickens Jr. was always one of Dan's poker buddies and he and his wife Anne Marie were often featured in small ways in various neighbourhood or Halloween episodes. He worked with Dan and figured prominently in the episode when D.J. didn't want to kiss the black girl in school. But you knew that R226. What's a black accent btw?

[quote]It's likely that Goodman also supported Trump, btw, given what close pals he and Roseanne are.

Define friends? They didn't hang out. They didn't socialize, they didn't see each other for years and would reunite for Roseanne functions like a DVD release. They were working friends and they butted heads a lot during the original show. And if he were that good a friend, he wouldn't have been on TV last night. He never once defended her or her actions.

John Goodman is no Log Cabin Republican. He voted for Hillary.

what's weird from the first run is that this one is on film and the old one was on video tape.

I was never a huge fan of the original though I thought the masterbating episode was funny and the one about the pot.

What's exhausting is the people proclaiming she shouldn't have been fired for being a racist. Probably not. Who knows? Will Peter Fonda ever work again? I don't know.

I did hear stories for years of Roseanne bitching at writers, critics, etc. Maybe this is payback for all that?

No R39 they called some Saudis.

I am a big Trump supporter and I am still on television. This is because I know when to keep my mouth shut.

Ratings were down 55% against the original reboot premiere. I called it, the unanimously negative social media response should've been an indicator, but as someone upthread suggested, this might be just a 10 episode-deal to fulfil legal obligations so they might as well go crazy with it and do something. I still find them to be backstabbing ingrates and wouldn't work of either of them after what they pulled, regardless of Roseanne's insanity, ingratitude is something no one should take lightly.

ROSEANNE was not created by Roseanne.

The show was created by Matt Williams.

I am glad she died, now I can watch the show.

Roseanne was created by Helen and Jerome.

Predictions for episode 2? I am calling it at a 35% drop.

[quote] what's weird from the first run is that this one is on film and the old one was on video tape.

No it's not, it's taped on HD video. No one shoots on film anymore. Even Game of Thrones, the cream of the crop is shot with an Arri Alexa and Red Dragon, because most modern day rigs are superior to film in every way and can mimic them with a higher definition result. A few tv shows and films are shot on film and are reserved to auteur filmmakers, it's hard to justify the higher cost otherwise.

Was Anne Marie on the reboot last season?

When I said this was the Wrinkle in Time of sitcoms I was scolded and as I predicted, critics were trying too hard to excuse a terrible show everyone was rooting against just to be politically correct and woke. I don't hate to say it that I told you so.

Clearly some of you are bitterly disappointed that The Conners is getting good reviews and decent ratings.

55% down is not good ratings R247, this shitstorm will be over before you can spell Valerie is white.

It’s not down 55%, you moron.

Yes it is, R249

[quote] The debut airing delivered 10.5 million viewers and a 2.3 rating among adults 18-49.

That’s down 55 percent from the premiere of Roseanne last spring, but was on par with Roseanne‘s finale and even managed to edge out NBC’s This Is Us for the night.

So they had a number one hit show and now it's in full decline. This only got viewers out of curiosity for Roseanne's demise. It will drop even more next week, I'm calling it. I hope defenders of free speech can rejoice themselves watching this politically correct gone mad debacle wane. James Gunn is probably kicking himself twice as we speak.

Well, it's not really fair to compare the 2 premiers. The first one was a big deal - and tons of people watched just to see them again, with little interest in the whole series. This one was still more curiosity about the show without Roseanne + the audience from the season finale. Once the curiosity people leave, I think it's going to drop a lot. We'll see. What's the minimum to keep a show on ABC these days? We're hardly in the 8 digit territory anymore.

As a non American fan of the series, I wish they had sent her to rehab instead until things cooled off...

The defender's of free speech on this thread are those of us who think that it was wrong for Roseanne to be fired in the first place. She was scapegoated by the media and the hysteria over the fact that she voted for Trump. That tweet did not warrant an immediate firing. Her co stars were appalled except for the ones who are her friends.

Even with the return of show press, John Goodman said that he misses Roseanne, that she was his buddy and they were trying to make their grief over Roseanne Barr's loss work for their characterizations in the show. Laurie Metcalf also supports Roseanne. Silently. Two things can be true at once, as a matter of fact they usually are. Just never on DL.

WTF cares you stupid treasonous Dump supporting assholes. Go lick some Saudi ass or be a toilet for some Russian. That's all your right wingers are good for.

IDK if the show fails miserably with or without her. The point is THE BITCH IS OFF THE SHOW. Good enough for me! Winning! WE don't care if the show fails without her. Not going to hurt me in any way. The reboot was never even watched by right wingers. They just kept the TV on with volume off to give it ratings.

Perfect R252. You're smarter than a whole network, most news outlets and more than half of twitter. That would have been a great solution in life and for the show. Roseanne could go to rehab! Love it.

I don't think the ratings are going to drop all that much. The first show was funny and very similar in tone to the original Roseanne. As a fan of both Goodman and Metcalf, I'm looking forward to watching it. And I watch very little broadcast TV these days.

The problem with Roseanne wasn't just her racist tweets. It was obvious she was reading her lines off cue cards and her Trump obsession fucked up the writing of the show. The original Roseanne might have voted for Trump "to shake things up" but no way would she ever have remained loyal to him. Roseanne the character no longer worked so killing her off was the only way to go.

I am pissed though that ABC has made it impossible to view the episodes of the original reboot. That's ridiculous.

She should have been fired for being racist. No one really fucking cared she voted for Dump. She was a vile, conspiracy theorist who posted racist shit. She was too fucking stupid not to. Just like all the racists coming out of the woodwork, she felt emboldened to act this way thinking there are no repercussions. Most other jobs would see a similar fate. Boo fucking hoo. A millionaire racist bitch lost her job. Wow.

DL posters don't give a rusty fuck about racists and they never did. It's your excuse for dismissing her because she voted for Trump. Ancient white fags on DL are far more racist against black people than Roseanne Barr could ever be.

Of course, Roseanne has a right to free speech, but, for every action, there's a reaction. If you told your employer "Go fuck yourself, I'm practicing my right to freedom of speech!", what do you think would happen to you? ABC cut their own throats by giving Roseanne another tv series. Much like her idol Trump, Roseanne views herself as a deity who must never be questioned & who can do no wrong. Well, the golden calf has fell off her altar.

R259 ABC is a dead network, stupid fuck.

You know what the show should have done? Roseanne is driving for uber (like in last season). She's abusing pain meds, and it's influencing her behavior. She gets into a fight with the customer, and says something that is perceived by some as racist. The uber customer records the whole thing on his phone, and the video goes viral, making Roseanne hated around the country.

Of course, uber has to fire her now, and the Conners' financial situation becomes more dire. Also, Roseanne is being bombarded by threats and hate mail, and the family must apologize in order to get peace. Roseanne does an interview on a cable news station and admits she's been abusing meds that might have influenced her behavior in the video.

At some point, a couple of Lanford neighbors walk up to her and laud her for what she did on video, revealing themselves to be white supremacists. Roseanne admonishes them, and tells them she's disgusted by what they've just told her. Roseanne looks inside herself to ask if she might actually be racist (like she did 30 years ago when DJ's now-father-in-law showed up at her restaurant and scared her). She didn't think she was being racist, but maybe she was subconsciously.

R260 is dead from the neck up.

[quote]even managed to edge out NBC’s This Is Us for the night.

Speaking of another show that seems to be in decline, story-wise, since the new season started.

The crazy thing is how this was a self fulfilled prophecy. Roseanne wrote in her second memoir “My Lives” how the studio tried to fire her and went to Goodman and Metcalf about starring in the show without her, but at that time, Goodman and Metcalf (Out of loyalty to Barr) refused. The studio wanted it though.

It’s crazy to think that 30 years later, the exact same thing happened, (only this time they said “yes”)

I like that a lot, R261. It actually involves some *critical thinking* and could have been good both for the show *and* its viewers—an authentic “teachable moment”.

That would have been good and demonstrated that ABC not only cared about the show and its viewers, but took any potential influence it had on the culture seriously.

It could even have potentially positively influenced some viewers. And it would have been good tv.

Sigh. The knee jerk overreaction of firing Roseanne was unnecessary and a major waste of an opportunity for good.

The show/ABC also would have given an example of a “path to redemption” for those in society who make mistakes and show their flaws in the worst way on social media—and are repentant. You know, like a lot of flawed human beings?

Your idea would have been miles better (and could have been so much more important for “the greater good” of society) than what ABC ultimately did. They could have actually made a good point while showing an example of redemption and humans having the ability to change. This would have been a great example to viewers and could have actually changed some hearts.

This was just ABC grandstanding to look good on Twitter. Lame...

*ABC doesn’t give a shit about their viewers, was not trying to “help” anyone

I don't know how they "overreacted." She made an agreement to turn her social media over to her children, almost immediately violated that, and had already sent a bunch of tweets they didn't like even before the Tweet Heard Round The World.

I don't think they should have brought the show back without Roseanne but I actually liked last night's episode and I'll tune in again next week. And they've got to find a way to bring Mary Steenburgen back because, last night, she reminded everyone why she has an Oscar.

I got as far as the kitchen triangle and switched channels.

They should have said she was in jail and nobody wants to drive to Elgin to visit her.

Did they still have the loose meat restaurant?

Completely contrived. The Conners needs good actors and good writers. I'll watch the Christmas Vacation reunion with Galecki and Lewis next week, but that's it.

I don't see any problem with Sara being the Roseanne replacement. Her character was obviously supposed to be wisecracking Roseanne Jr. anyway. And she still has the comic timing she needed for the part originally. The writers gave her great material, but she still had to be able to deliver the joke effectively, and got a big share of the laughs during the original run.

Everything felt authentic in the original show. In both reboots everyone's acting is so bad, even my favorites Goodman and Metcalfe aren't cutting it. Metcalfe and Roseanne together were always gold. Now it's like they are parodies of their original characters now. I also hate how they cram in every social issue, which was also done in the previous run. Of course there is a cross dressing, gay child, an interracial family, the Muslim neighbors etc... it's overkill. I loved the original show's first 4-5 seasons, (mainly 2-4, which was when Tom Arnold was writing it) then it stared going downhill continuing with the reboots. Some times you just can't go home again. I will say that Becky could be an interesting character, though the acting is not great. Sarah Gilbert is horrible. As a kid she was witty, so you're kinda expecting it here, but you never get it. Maybe a spin-off would have been better.

Lecy and Fishman are pretty great spokespeople for the reboot of the reboot. Lecy wrote a good article at the time of Roseanne's firing too. She's a thoughtful woman. I like "Darlene" but can do without Sara Gilbert thanks.

Lecy is underrated. For me, she and Steenburgen were the standouts last night. I hope we don't see much of Fishman and his wife.

R253 thinks it is perfectly fine to equate black women (Jarrett, Rice) with apes.

I thought Lecy was pretty amazing and natural last night, though they gave Gilbert and Metcalf more to work with.

ABC must be ecstatic about the numbers since all the returning shows are coming back to stunning audience drops. ABC needs a hit and has one here.

Do you think they will get an extension on the 10 episodes or is that it since the cast has other commitments?

It was like what I would imagine I Love Lucy would be without Lucy. Grim, depressing and not funny. One episode was enough for me. It's a shame Roseanne is crazy.

No, it's a shame Roseanne is a racist that even for millions of dollars could not keep her hatred to herself. The show is better without her. They lost nothing but a vile person working for ABC.

Perhaps Dan's sister, played by new cast member Sandy Duncan, could move in to help raise and wrangle this impish brood!

It’s crazy how someone like Mary Steenburgen can have essentially a cameo in a sitcom, but in a brief scene with Goodman, deliver in such a brilliant way that everyone wonders why she doesn’t do more dramatic work.

I didn't miss Roseanne. I think the rest of the cast is strong enough to carry on without her.

Another vote for Lecy being underrated. I actually think she's been on quite strong throughout this reboot, acting-wise. I really think, if the show is to survive, they really need to shift the main focus now to Darlene and Becky, with John and Laurie being supporting characters.

It's Michael Fishmann that's the dead weight. He's still being treated like an afterthought. DJ is a grown man now, but he's still being written as the forgotten little brother.

The show is "hardly better without her". Roseanne made the show. I'd be surprised if it makes it to another season.

I want one regular character to die in every episode until only Dan is left and then he hangs himself in the series finale

Don't brink up hanging in this thread, R285. You may lose your job.

All of this drama over some tweet about Valerie Jarrett... a light-skinned Iranian woman who nobody had ever heard of.

Lecy Goranson was great. I'll be excited to see what happens and where it goes once we don't have to talk about Roseanne's death anymore.

This is where it's going, R288.

Roseanne is a total nutcase now, how did she fuck up her life so much? Wasn't she happy living in Hawaii being a nut farmer? She's got that weird orthodox conservative rabbi hanging around her.

Did anyone watch that short Vice piece on Roseanne that aired on HBO last night? Considering how much money she has she lives in a dump. I was shocked when they showed the interiors.

Her office:

Wasn't she living on some nut farm in Hawaii? What happened to that?

R290, where the hell have you been? Roseanne has been front page National Enquirer fodder for her entire career. She's always been controversial.

It looks like she smokes 4 packs a day now

r294 WTF are you talking about? I'm speaking of her mental well being, and she looks unwell. It would explain the deplorable nonsense.

R294, she accused her father of molesting her and went public in 1991. She later recanted. She's always been this way. ALWAYS.

Out of all of the shit she's said and done over the years you finally think she's flipped because she voted for Trump? Oh, my sides.

Sorry, R297 was in reply to R296.

R296, there's no point in trying to have a reasonable conversation with these pro-Roseanne loons. Healthy adults don't fly into a rage over a television series.

I know what R290 is talking about. For a few years after the series first ended and her talk show failed, it seemed like Roseanne had calmed down a lot and was enjoying a quieter and presumably happier life.

Turns out she was just keeping the crazy out of the public eye. Once she started getting attention again, all the crazy came right back with it.

Here is the Vice piece. She seems off, like really off.

A poster upthread mentioned an essay Lecy Goranson wrote about her tv mom. I just found it. Here it is...

Roseanne has always been a one hit wonder. Granted it was a huge hit and made her rich beyond most people's needs but it still is the only success she really has had. She wasn't even in stand up too long before the show, so she never really toured big venues with her act. This show was all she had.

I liked The Conners premiere. Some obvious adjustments were made ostensibly to make up for Roseanne Barr’s offenses.

Someone above said DJ’s wife is now “a regular,” but that remains to be seen. The character said on this week’s episode that she only gets four bereavement days of leave from active duty, so they’ll need a lame excuse to keep her in the house if that is the plan. She may just Skype in as she did last season.

I like the setup with DJ and his wife, but something Michael Fishman said on The View yesterday makes me think the person who complained above about “Harvard writers’ version” of this family without Roseanne’s influence could be coming true. Fishman described the actress who plays his daughter as “giving good side eye” and being “sassy.” I’m not black and even I winced when he said that.

I was REALLY surprised by Lecy’s commentary on The View. She didn’t hesitate to say that Roseanne was a stifling presence and to call Roseanne’s tweet racist. She didn’t make or accept excuses. And while I am well aware actors are not the characters they play, Lecy’s acting has been so poor in this new version that I guess I figured she just isn’t very bright in real life. But she was thoughtful and articulated her views so well in the View interview that I was really surprised how not-Becky she is. Turns out she went to Vassar (!!—so un-Lanford!), and now I’m thinking maybe she does a poor job at being Becky now because maybe she just can’t relate to her at all in her imagination. She’s originally from Illinois herself, and she was in my opinion a much more believable actress as a teenager than she is now. Maybe she has a patronizing notion of a 40-something waitress in middle America and that’s why she is so unconvincing portraying her?

Oh but I’ll ad I thought that Darlene and her kids were written as the heart of the reboot even when Roseanne was on it, and Sara Gilbert and her kids (especially the son) are by far the most resonant characters for me. Metcalf and Goodman are very good actors and they deserve all the credit they get for their careers, but Dan Conner is so, so sad now that he feels misplaced on any sitcom, even a bittersweet one, and Jackie just seems completely unhinged. I would speculate that Metcalf maybe has spent so much time onstage that she can’t downsize a performance for camera anymore—but she was too good in Ladybird to suggest that. I’m thinking she either just has weird direction on this show, or else she is choosing to overplay what’s written on the page to make it funnier. In last night’s episode, she could have been a lot more subdued to better effect. I think the scenario was written fine—the nervous reorganization of the house makes sense in theory, but she was so grandiose with the “triangle” stuff that it made her look crazy and took me out of the grieving story. Jack and Karen in Will and Grace are sitcom-crazy, but Jackie is too believably crazy for me to find her very funny.

Roseanne wipes back to front. The character AND the racist wretch

Anyone know if Sarah Chalke is appearing this season?

Will Arnie breeze back into Landford?

Where abouts is that apartment in LA? At first I thought she must be in one of the celebrity condo buildings like Sierra Towers or Empire west but the view from the balcony doesn’t match. It’s a very depressing home and I think I would sleep 17 hours a day if I lived there too.

I listened in full to the Roseanne interview with Joe Rogan. I found it ridiculous that he kept trying to give her excuses. I don’t know much about him, seems like a libertarian bro type. He ranted about colleges indoctrinating tech students to be left wing and generally seemed like he thinks he’s way smarter than he is.

Anyway the Rogan interview sort of changed my opinion on the Roseanne firing. I don’t believe she’s a racist. I do believe she’s mentally ill. I don’t think she should have been fired but I also don’t think she should have been hired for a reboot in the first place being so unstable. I’ll give her props for not allowing Joe Rogan to put excuses in her mouth and for admitting she was asked to stop tweeting but did it anyway and in doing so gave them the gun to shoot her with.

Maybe Roseanne will return as a snarky, sarcastic version of Hamlet’s ghost and coerce DJ to kill the whole family. Then we’ll get a Middle-American Horror Story: Murder House season.

Interesting

R308 I think Joe Rogan is the prototypical Libertarian bro. He has created a whole culture of guys who have created themselves in the image of his podcast, meaning that they have libertarian views, think they are funny when usually they are not and aspire to be standup comics, are into microdosing with psychedelics with the hope of sparking some sort of entrepreneurial genius, are vain and obsessed with working out and buy into a strange Rogan-created notion that MMA is some kind of noble intellectual pursuit, and not actually just naked meatheads beating the shit out of one another. In summary: gym, tan, drug, chase money.

[quote]Anyone know if Sarah Chalke is appearing this season?

Working on her own show.

r305, did you watch the last several seasons of Rosanne? Jackie became Barney Fife and a complete caricature, so this character being "unhinged" is nothing new. I said already I wish they would tone Jackie down and write her like the earlier seasons.

It was only down 12k. The show had already lost viewers. You can’t pit it up against the premiere of the previous season. You put it up against the finale. That’s where it was viewership wise. It only dropped from 10.58 to 10.46. It beat This Is Us in the demo and is the highest-rated series of the week thus far.

I hated Jackie by the end of the original series’ run for the reason stated by r313. I think she’s been fine on the reboot but agree she was best during the original early seasons.

R308, she is a racist. You obviously didn’t follow her on Twitter for the past 6 years. She went after blacks in America like you wouldn’t believe. She also came out against gay marriage.

Darlene is essentially the Jackie of the earlier seasons. They seem to feel the need to make Jackie "zany" in order to get laughs.

Lecy is very smart and is my favorite character on the show. Apparently she asks Dan for a job in his drywall construction company and he says no. She says it’s because she’s a woman. He says it’s because she’s an alcoholic.

R300, the crazy came back when a black man took the nomination away from a white woman. Then she went nuts over Israel. She was anti-Israel, then every non-Jew must be executed. Then she hated every Democrat known to man and became a full-blown gun-toting Right winger and began doxxing people.

Why was Sarah Chalke fired?

Lecy and Michael Fishman said the ghost of Glenn Quinn haunts the set and plays pranks on Johnny Galecki. Are they crazy or is this true?

I love how idiot deplorables are still trying to make excuses for Roseanne. The racist bitch is fired and trump loving character is dead.

And Lecy is a lot smarter and a lot better actress than Roseanne Barf. She is doing fine in the role.

the best episode of the whole show in my opinion was when Becky left and Goranson really rose to the occasion. The scene between her and Goodman when she told Dan that “If he knew how to run a business Mark would have a job and she wouldn’t be leaving” was so brutal and yet so perfectly played. That was when the show was at its best and something other “sitcoms” couldn’t touch.

R322, that entire episode was electrifying. The emotions were real and raw. Dan was already depressed about his business dream dying, and then Becky added insult to injury when she dumped all over him. And then that last scene at the phone booth...wow. You could sense the fear in the parents that Becky was going to repeat their mistakes, choosing a boy and marriage over school, continuing the cycle. It was upsetting because she had always been the "smart" kid who was going to escape the working class.

Another great episode was when Becky came back home for a visit after eloping, and Dan gave her the silent treatment and refused to reason with Roseanne about his anger towards Becky.

R311...Joe Rogan is simply a vehicle for straight white men who feel emasculated by a fast-changing culture that no longer centers their idea of manhood anymore. He, and all his listeners were socialized with that "Be a man" framework, which is no longer working in this world, and they feel displaced with no identity. He allows them a "safe space" to cling harshly to that old identity.

The new generation of boys, hopefully raised with a more healthy view on male identity, will eventually fade them out. It might take 50-100 years (patriarchy is a bitch), but it will happen.

Joe Rogan bothers me because he’s married with daughters and a step daughter. He never mentions them on the show and never brings his experience as a man raising young women into his conversations. Even when his guests are being incredibly sexist and throwing around the word ‘cuck’. No doubt they’d consider him a cuck too if he publicised his step daughter. I’ve listened to a few shows and it seems like he’s just saying what he thinks his audience wants to hear. He does a lot of segments on diets and chastises lazy fat people when he has a big fat head himself. He’s just a more PC Alex Jones.

He was totally pathetic feeding Roseanne those excuses. “But you were drunk right?” “And smoking pot?” I love that she said no she just had one beer but he keeps it up “but one beer with an Ambien you were fucked up”. Aren’t douche canoes like him all about personal responsibility. I wonder if someone insulted his family would he say it’s okay the guy got drunk, got high, took meds and couldn’t help it. If anything I came away with more respect for Roseanne who wouldn’t use the excuses and took responsibility for screwing up.

I enjoyed it. I’ll stay put. One problem is that it might have too many characters.

[r322] YES!! Both episodes of her exit were brilliant tv. Most shows won’t go “there” ya know? She really broke her father because in her mind, he ruined her future. I don’t think anyone ever really healed from that.

Lecy always had it all over Sarah Chalke in my opinion. Becky became a bland, goody-two-shoes, nothing like she'd been with sassy Lecy. Lecy's the much more interesting actress as she's finally getting to prove now.

R240 Based on her act. C'mon, let's not be that ridiculous. The shows WAS her.

[quote]What's a black accent btw?

Are you really that stupid or are you just race-baiting?

Sarah Chalke wasn't really fired. Lecy wanted to come back and, after all, she really was Becky. Chalke was released from her contract but hasn't done too badly so I doubt she's complaining.

R328, Chalke herself has said that Roseanne was a very intimidating experience. It was her first major job and she was very young . She became an excellent comedic actress eventually.

Why was she fired this year from the cast?

could be that the cast is too big and having both 'Beckys' back was a nice thing to do, but they may not be committed to the surrogate story

The surrogate story was resolved. Chalke was not meant to be a regular cast member.

[quote] I AIN’T DEAD, BITCHES!!!!

[quote] — Roseanne Barr (@therealroseanne) October 17, 2018

People actually watched this pilot TV show? I was never a fan of the original Roseanne and I don't find her to be that funny.

Chalke appeared in the final season of Roseanne as Becky and some of the previous season.

Lecy came back because season 8 (1995-96) was supposed to be the last year then she would go back to school for her senior year. Midway through Roseanne changed her mind and decided to do a season 9. Lecy went back to school and Goodman was on a limited number of shows because he already had work lined up.

College was part of the reason she left initially after the 91-92 season and did a few shows for the 92-93 season, but the bigger reason was that she had relationship with an older crew member that ended badly. She may have been under age and he may have been married. Howard stern asked Roseanne about it years ago and Roseanne was startled that he knew about it and quickly changed the subject

Why wasn't Sarah Chalke asked back to be Becky for the reboot? She was the last Becky we knew. They should've had two Darlenes too. If they had two Roseannes, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Apropos of nothing in this thread, I remember reading here years and years ago that Joe Rogan was closeted and in the leather scene.

r340, so just like the Senatrice Lindsey Graham?

I'd like to know why no one has a problem with Darlene now sitting in her mother's place at the kitchen table during the credits? Sara Gilbert comes across like an opportunistic and rapacious asshole. I couldn't stand the character of Darlene as the original Roseanne series progressed because she never changed. She just became a taller and more monotone (if that's even possible) version of the little obnoxious brat she always was. Now she and her boring as fuck children are taking over as the main family on the show?

I can't wait to see how Channing Dungey tries to spin this entire clusterfuck - starting with the knee-jerk reaction to fire Roseanne, the decision to greenlight The Conners and ending with its eventual slide into oblivion. This will go down as one of the most tone-deaf decisions in network television history.

R342 The reboot showed that not one person in the town, Conner household or even nation has a good job or success. They are all just trash. What a sick view of the world.

Classist garbage, basically.

I guess if you guys cant find a dick to shit on you must shit on everything else that is posted on this board. FFS, get a life and/or a dildo and stfu.

R345 your mama took a shit and gave birth to you. Ms Alotta Feces.

R345 is lost.

R339=exxie wilson

[quote]'d like to know why no one has a problem with Darlene now sitting in her mother's place at the kitchen table during the credits? Sara Gilbert comes across like an opportunistic and rapacious asshole. I couldn't stand the character of Darlene as the original Roseanne series progressed because she never changed.

You didn't like Darlene before and you don't like her now and you complain about a fictional character never changing? Hmmm.

The thing about the reboot that bothered me is that they felt the audience couldn't accept any change. Except for a new stove, the house hasn't changed in 30 years? Same wallpaper ? Dan couldn't afford a few cans of paint? And that couch was old to start but still lasted another 30 years with all that use and weight. C'mon.

The inane, childish bickering here has degraded to the level of YouTube commenters. If you’re going to insult one another like children, at least say something clever and prove you’re not methed out in a Florida trailer.

YouTube commenters are usually funny in their diversity of opinions. You are just a persnickety cunt.

word is its a pain in ass

will be cancelled.

R350 The same couch I agree was silly but having the same wallpaper and other stuff would not be unusual for a family like The Conners. When you're constantly trying to keep your head above water, you don't have the money, time or energy to spend on decorating.

MUST HEAR!!!!!!!!!!! Joe and Roseanne. Yah, it's a long ass talk but SO worth it to hear what she has to say.....if you come away from this hating Roseanne you don't deserve to live.

and oh, R210? Thanks for being so helpful sweets.....I looked it up before you gave your lovely opinion of me. Ya know one of the things Roseanne said here and there in this interview was, people, anyone, can say or think anything they want....i let it all go because it is about them and not me.

BOOM R210.

Seriously, R349? Darlene's character was never written as a lead character. She was good for a snarky one-liner as she strolled through the living room and ascended the stairs. It's not my responsibility to change my dislike of a character if said character remains the same throughout a nine-season run. Add to the fact Sara Gilbert has the charisma of a shock therapy recipient and you have a recipe for failure.

Bottom line: She's a producer of the show so now her boring character is promoted to female lead. Darlene doesn't have "it" and neither does Sara. Let the countdown to cancellation begin.

R350 I’m from a working class family in a factory town in Indiana. Im 37 and my mother has the same wallpaper, tiling, light fixtures, kitchen and living room furniture as she had when I was 5. Possibly since she married actually but the earliest pics I have are from my 5th birthday party. That’s not at all strange here. People don’t move house and they don’t really redecorate. Beds and new carpet would be about the only things people change and even then the men have to me cajoled into it.

I always appreciated the set decoration on Roseanne. Another show I felt captured a working class home was the U.K. show “The Royal Family”. There’s an episode where the dad started to scrape off the wallpaper but quit and for the rest of the show’s run they left the torn wallpaper. That was my grandmas kitchen for about 15 years.

R357, you post could have just as easily described an old-money family. Take heart.

I really liked the Darlene character as a kid. The episode about Darlene's poem is an all-time favorite of mine. The all-black goth phase felt very real for the character. But Sara Gilbert's acting has declined since those days.

Also, what is the last name for Darlene and her kids? Are they Conners or Healys? Since the show is called the Conners, I was trying to think who would actually be named Conner on the show?

There is an 'All About Eve' aspect to all this. Gilbert had to have known that Roseanne was going to say something incredibly stupid. And now, she's the lead. Purely a coincidence.

They had money to hang out and drink all night, and give elaborate Halloweens, they could buy a gallon of paint at Walmart once in 30 years.

If the show is successful enough for ABC to profit financially, (which is easier now that Roseanne herself is no longer involved), they'll keep it on the air.

Creatively - and if Sara Gilbert is a good producer - they'll let it evolve organically. They'll see what characters and stories work, then go with those. Remember Family TIes? It was primarily about Meredith Baxter Birney's character, but Michael J. Fox became the breakout star. Happy Days dispensed with Ron Howard when Henry Winkler broke out. The Connors could go in various directions. We'll just see how it plays.

Steenbruggen deserves an award

Why didn't Darlene do the signature cackle in the opening credits?

^^Because she knows better.

R361 speaks the truth that'll get a lot of people upset. Screams of "the poor can't have fun?" will be shouted from the rooftops. The Connors were at that bar a lot in the past. And those Halloween episodes were very expensive looking. It's an interesting concept when people who are struggling financially waste their money on non-necessities. My white trash sister who was on welfare would still buy cigarettes, get her nails done, and had a membership at one of those tanning salons. She would complain about being broke all the time, and how certain "other people" we're on welfare. Guess who those people were??

I sat down with her once and went through what she spends money on in one year. Cigs alone were $2000.00. ( this was early 90's). Her tanning thing was hard to figure out as she started getting irritated. I guesstimated the tanning and nails was around $1500.00 at least. Not to mention all the fast food she'd buy her kids and general useless crap that caught her attention at the moment. Imagine what could be done with an "extra" $3000 or more? It's not going to pull one up out of poverty instantly, but it could go into something more tangible than cigs and tanning.

I guess I'm rambling and can't really understand her or "the Connors" situation as they had kids, I do not. That's a whole other ball of wax. If you can't afford to have kids, do not have them. PERIOD!!! It's like an endless cycle of despair and poverty.

Lots of dumb Trump voters posting here.

R367 crawl back into your litter box, revolting lil troll cunt.

R368 typing in Ambien.

The Trump/Rosanne trolls are acting out because The Conners has been well reviewed by the critics and got slightly higher ratings than the final episode with Roseanne. It's a winner for ABC and a winner for the show's writers and cast because they no longer have to work with crazy anymore.

Sarah Chalke has a deal with the creator of Scrubs and ABC for a new sitcom. Do any of you fraus have any intellectual curiosity at all to look things up. GD Google is not that hard.

Sarah Chalke is the only one with talent AND beauty. Instead of looking like a terrifying gargoyle like Metcalf and Gilbert.

Lecy Goranson will always be Becky. Sarah Chalke looked like a member of the Royal Family compared to the Connors.

Lecy is excellent in the part of Becky. People who dislike her are just wrong. I know that character, I remember the trajectory of her life. She plays it very well. Now that Roseanne's gone, she is the most hopeful character on the show. Who doesn't know somebody who gave up her future and independence for a boy and ended up a waitress or cashier? She's attractive and funny and still trying. I like her.

Lecy Goranson the actress is a thoughtful, astute and smart woman. Sarah Chalke is a bright eyed dumb chick from Vancouver.

R373 Was just about to post something similar to what you wrote. Looking forward to seeing how the current writers deal with Becky's alcoholism and lost dreams.

R373 Way to defend a stereotypical trailer trash bimbo like the original Becky vs real life Sarah Chalke, who has always been successful. Lecy Goranson has done nothing but bit parts aside from Roseanne.

That’s because she went to school and got an education. Roseanne couldn’t understand why she wanted to do that. Roseanne never made her real kids go to school. She was a deadbeat white trash mother.

I agree R342, and I'm not even a fan of Rosaeanne, Tom Arnold, or John Goodman. Did the character Roseanne Connor die from a heart attack, or overdose of opiates? I read both in different articles.

Also, it's been well known for decades that Roseanne is literally batshit crazy, and a huge cunt to work for/with. But if she's bipolar that would explain why, and apparently she had a traumatic brain injury, according to her wikipedia page. But who knows if that's true?

If someone is abused either sexually or physically they are going to remember it, and will not have dodgy or repressed memories of it.

I have met quite a number of bipolar people who claimed that their parents or other family members sexually or physically abused them, but in reality they were never abused and just want attention or do this as part of their mania.

From below link: 6. ROSEANNE'S PARENTS ON USING THE FORCE. Back in the day when Roseanne was still hot and heavy with Tom Arnold, he confessed to her that he'd been molested as a young boy by his babysitter. That revelation triggered a truckload of repressed memories for Roseanne, who soon appeared in the press and on various talk shows bemoaning her sexual abuse at the hands of her parents from age six months until she moved out of their house at 17. When real-life Roseanne discovered retroactively that her parents were evil, she rewrote her TV parents to be equally abusive and dysfunctional.

It's odd how Tom Arnold converted to Judaism when he married Roseanne, but then he got tattoos which was once something devout/religious Jews were extremely against since they consider it to be mutilation, and you were once not allowed to be buried in a Jewish cemetery if you had a tattoo. Of course if someone had a forced Holocaust, or forced GULAG tattoo-despite how Jews had preferential treatment in the GUALG camps as they started them in the USSR sometimes people especially thieves and snitches were given tattoos by force- that was different and they were allowed to be buried in a Jewish cemetery.

Even today there are many Jews who consider a tattoo to be mutilation of the body, yet think nothing of having a young boy's penis mutilated because of silly bronze age barbaric traditions-which is disgusting.

Also, most Jews-at least devout/religious ones anyway, do not consider someone who converts to Judaism or is what they call a "Jew by choice", or someone who claims to be Jewish because they have a Jewish father but no Jewish mother, to be actually Jewish, as they were not born to a Jewish mother, or were not raised in Judaism.

Y'all sure travelled a long distance just to say you love uncut dick R378.

[quote] I have met quite a number of bipolar people who claimed that their parents or other family members sexually or physically abused them, but in reality they were never abused and just want attention or do this as part of their mania.

People who are Bipolar don’t make shit up. Roseanne is a sociopath.

R377 The character died in her sleep. She was discovered mid-episode to have died as a result of opiate overdose—the way it usually happens: she stopped breathing, and the heart stops as a result. It takes time to figure out why a person died during sleep.

Matthew Broderick is going to guest star as Aunt Jackie’s boyfriend.

Matthew Broderick is another sad sack. This show is going to increase the suicide rate.

Why does Aunt Jackie get a boyfriend? She’s 63 in the series.

Some people here seem to be criticizing Roseanne and The Conners as if it is presenting itself as a documentary about a real working-class family. It’s still a sitcom. A comedy, even if it is a bittersweet, melancholic one that highlights issues. Jackie is wacky because she’s a sitcom character. Scenarios are unrealistic because it’s a situation comedy. They need different situations every week. They need to exaggerate for the sake of comedy. Picking apart everyone’s motivations and suggesting that the show is a failure because people are behaving in ways inconsistent with reality...well, it’s a fictional sitcom about a fictional family. We don’t even expect realism from “reality television.” When did we start expecting it from fictional television?

R385, nice post.

R385 I think it’s the number of self appointed critics out there on blogs/forums/Tumblr who take every movie and tv show deathly serious and analyze every syllable until they find something objectionable to rant about and be offended by.

Roseanne hasn't been middle class for thirty years.

R385, that's what Roseanne brought to this show. Authenticity. She made sure the writers did not write parodies of the characters. Now we're seeing the effects of her absence and it will become increasingly obvious that she had a huge part in keeping these characters realistic for a comedy. During her tenure, this show covered a lot of serious subject matter and it worked because the characters were believable.

The other issue will be quantity vs quality. Roseanne was the main character whose absence has left a huge hole in this relaunch of the reboot. There's a reason DJ (Michael Fishman) wasn't given much to do in the reboot - he has zero presence and he can't act. But now with Roseanne off the canvas, he, his wife and his child are going to be featured. Quantity vs quality. How many actors can you fit on a soundstage all at once? I'm sure The Conners will give us the answer.

Darlene (Sara Gilbert) is not leading lady material. She has zero screen presence and does not have Roseanne's in-on-the-joke understanding of her character. That's why it worked when Laurie would play Jackie OTT and Roseanne was there to play the older and more grounded sibling. Now she's playing off of her niece and it just doesn't work. Sara will play it depressingly serious and will pull down the series comedic elements with her overwrought ignorance. Darlene was good for a sarcastic one-liner on Roseanne but when she was featured as the A plot in a few of the shows she was a monotonous and boring performer, yet here she is literally taking her mother's spot at the table.

Look, a poster who thinks. Very nice response R389.

[quote] Authenticity. She made sure the writers did not write parodies of the characters.

Did you watch the last two seasons of the original series?

It’s always funny to see the people who obviously never really watched the show out themselves by bringing up Darlrne’s poem episode when it’s not even considered a top 30 classic episode by any means by real fans who grew up with the series. That was some early days Cosby bullshit. These are the idiots who are upset that Roseanne was killed off. They must have been introduced to the show through reruns. Real fans know Barr needed to go. She ruined the character. She brought her personal life into the show and infused it into the Roseanne character and ruined it. Roseanne Conner was already dead to us.

The show is back on in syndication. I was beginning to think I would never see it again.

R380, I never said they make stuff up, when someone's bipolar and manic a lot of times they will have delusions, and believe them. I know many bipolar people who when they are manic will claim that their parents or siblings, or a partner or spouse sexually or physically abused them, and in reality their family members or partner are loving and normal, and not abusive.

[quote]It’s always funny to see the people who obviously never really watched the show out themselves by bringing up Darlene’s poem episode when it’s not even considered a top 30 classic episode by any means by real fans who grew up with the series

Are you kidding? Darlene's poem episode is absolutely a Roseanne classic. The episode was a pivotal turning point for Darlene's character in terms of development. It was the first episode that introduced some depth to her character, and showed the audience there was more to her than just being the wise-cracking, smartass tomboy.

Her poem perfectly conveyed her feelings of insecurity and vulnerability--something we never saw from Darlene up to that point--as she started to enter into adolescence. We get a rare glimpse into her true feelings, and learn so much about her that we didn't previously know--namely, that she is actually smart despite always underachieving in school, and that (despite always picking on Becky for being boy-crazy), she too had feelings for boys, and was struggling to reconcile her desire to be noticed by them with her ideas of her own femininity and womanhood.

It's a seminal episode that set-up and helped influence a lot of future Darlene episodes, particularly her depression story arc in later seasons. A lot of themes explored in those episodes, about Darlene feeling ugly, weird and different, all tie back to this poem episode. It all boils down to Darlene, an atypical girl growing up in a typical town, feeling like an outsider.

I do agree though that the character of Roseanne Conner started going downhill after season 4 or 5. You could really see a tonal shift in the character during later seasons. In the early seasons, Roseanne was wise-cracking and no-nonsense, but she was a hard worker with a good heart who clearly loved her family. The character became a lot more lazy, shrill and cruel after season 5, which I attribute to the real Roseanne injecting more of herself into the character.

Omg, I thought the posts about Matthew Broderick joining the show was a joke until I looked it up. That is pretty sad. I actually can't get over the Ferris Bueller is only 6 years younger than LM. Clooney coming back would have been better. Did they ever address what happened to Fred?

Good for ABC and Channing Dungey. The cast and crew get to continue working this season despite the horrible behavior of the former star of the show. Decency wins.

Dan looks like he will die next.Crystal was all over him......Jackie looked okay and her cleaning Rosanne's dirty house was so real to me.Becky and Darlene still have stupid arguements.DJ was very quiet except with his wife.I don't like the reboot.....they all look strung out or old.Except for 92 yr old Estelle Parsons.......who dosen't age.I streamed it but cut it off,tooo sad.......Rosanne's od'ing dosen't give me the joy i thought it would.

Fuck The Conners. They should've just made a show with Nancy, Leon and Kathy "Needle Butt Sneeze" Bowman.

I like the reboot. And I actually *like* that the cast looks like everyday people (YES, they really do.) and not like Hollywood glamazons. It lends to the atmosphere and the setting of the show, and it lends credibility to their down-and-out defensive attitudes and to the lack of life opportunities they find. I do wish the acting were better, but somehow even the subpar acting for me contributes to being able to imagine these people as poorly educated and just...stuck. I was REALLY surprised to hear Lecy speaking as herself on The View. I’ve knocked her acting on the new reboot, but I have to say that I was blown away by how different the real person is; she’s articulate, even eloquent, and didn’t seem sarcastic or snarky at all, or even funny, and that really does say that she is performing a convincing character. It’s like Jean Stapleton...I can hardly believe it anytime I ever see her play anyone unlike Edith Bunker because she’s just so fully imagined in her limitations.

R395 Total agreement.

I've watched the show from the beginning. I thought the first few episodes were fairly awful, and it was obvious Roseanne had no idea what she was doing. Didn't know how to stand in front of the camera, where to look, etc. As amateurish as could be. But Goodman and Metcalf were pros, and the show was innovative enough to keep watching. By mid-season, it was starting to find it's way, (and Roseanne Barr was vastly improving). The episode of Darlene's poem, for me, was the first great episode!

I agree the first season Roseanne's acting was awful. The voice! However, I still think S1 was better than the later seasons. I like the family dynamic and it was smaller cast. After Becky left the things changed. Roseanne and Dan were always a unit until the later seasons when Dan was emasculated by Roseanne. Dan was right a lot of the time. Why would you allow your teenaged daughter's boyfriend move in with them, especially with Mark being his brother? Roseanne actively worked against Dan in the later seasons. They went from working class to trash. Plus the show just got to OTT and the cast too big.

[quote]I agree the first season Roseanne's acting was awful.

But she was charming, you can't not smile watching the pilot. Unfortunately a trait she lost as fame rose.

I think Becky leaving was so realistic. Most sitcoms have characters leave for “good” reasons like a new job or a happy marriage. Or characters leave in death. Becky was neither. She didn’t die, but her dreams and hopes died.

That was brave and unusual. Even still in 2018.

I saw reboot 2.0 and I saw no hole where Roseanne used to be. I saw a show that was more enjoyable. And Becky finally coming into her own.

Why did Becky the character leave? And why did Lecy leave to go to Vassar? Sara Gilbert went to Yale without ever leaving the show.

Rumor has it Lecy was hooking up with a much older, married producer and that's why she left and Vassar was a PR reason. Not sure why the producer wasn't fired instead.

Why do neurotic republican bitches obsess over this site?

RB was terrible in season 10. Awful. It was between her and Lecy to see who could give the worst line readings.

Yes, Barr deserves all the credit for what the show became in it's first few seasons, but she also deserves the blame for season 9.

In some ways, season 9 was brilliant because it completely blew up the show. That was ballsy. Had any series ever gone it like that before? The larger statement was that the only way people like The Conners can actually get ahead is to win the lottery. Then you have stuff like the train episode which.... Wow.

Season 10 was too politically focused, like they had a checklist of things they wanted to get through. The original was never that on the nose.

If Barr had only ever made one comment, I'd believe in a redemption arc for her. But she's a loose cannon. ABC had no idea what she might say next.

It's she a racist? I have no idea. Remember, she's the one who plastered George Zimmerman's private contact information on Twitter.

I think she's just nuts.

Melissa gilbert is hard to take

doubt the show will last...

I liked second Becky better.

Chalke is pound-for-pound a better actress, although I don't know if she was a better Becky.

John Goodman is one of those guys who looks better fat.

On the show the character of Becky left because Dan lost his business and Mark lost his job and moved away to another job opportunity. Becky dropped out of high school eloped, and followed him there. Becky has a bitter confrontation with Dan prior to leaving where she blamed him for all of her broken dreams and called her a failure, so as a result, he refused to speak to her when she left, so she only got to tearfully say goodbye to Roseanne.

^ she called him a failure not “call her a failure”

Those Becky/Dan scenes were incredible, when the show was at its peak.

Still can't believe Goodman didn't win an Emmy for his wo on this show.

R414, Dan didn't stop speaking to Becky until after she ran away and eloped. It hurt him to be called a failure, but he probably would have quickly forgiven her for that and attributed the behavior to normal female teenage angst. What made Dan angry enough to stop speaking to Becky was the fact that she ran away from home to get married, abandoning the path he had laid out for her to go to college (even if community college at first) and escape the blue-collar Lanford life. When Becky first came home to visit after running away to elope, that's when we saw Dan giving her the silent treatment. Becky tried to justify her running away by arguing to him, "I was just another mouth to feed...I was just doing you a favor by leaving". Dan replied, "Don't do me any favors, Becky."

That was a heartbreaking scene. I really think Lecy and John should have gotten dramatic Emmys that year instead of comedy. Hell that year Laurie won for the episode where Fisher beat her and Roseanne won for the dramatic work when her dad died.

Perhaps the show should’ve just submitted as drama that year. I think Lecy could’ve won guest for her goodbye show.

R418 has not stopped crying since seeing that scene. We condole you.

How does one condole?

Here you go, empathy-free person/R420.

I consoled Roseanne Conner.

Roseanne and Dan had a fight late in the original series—I think it might have been S8—in which Dan called his children failures and vented all his disappointments about his life. Roseanne concedes that Becky and Darlene threw their lives away for a man, like she did, and she’s not going to do it anymore. He calls her a controlling bitch, she calls him a lazy ass. He starts saying he wishes he had never married her. She flips through her catalogue of resentments, including his failed bike shop that devastated the family financially.

It culminates with her smashing the TV and leaving to go to Jackie’s.

It’s rare to see a scene that raw and emotionally honest, especially on a sitcom. That was what the old series did best, and I hope The Conners can recapture some of that.

Lacey is not very good on the reboot and I agree everyone's acting is ...off..It is like they are just rushing through their lines to get to something better off set. Was the same last year with Roseanne in the first reboot. Lacey can act though-she was great in Boys Dont Cry and the original run of the series. Sarah Chalke was awful. Anyone know the reason Lacey left the original series? Some say college, some say substance abuse and mental health.

R423 What episode was that? I have not seen that one.

[quote] However, I still think S1 was better than the later seasons.

Then you don't like "Roseanne" nor get why it was a groundbreaking series. The first three seasons were a run of the mill tv show and not what made the show a classic, something that was never seen before.

The most emotional episode of the original series for me was the one that Jackie and Rosie go visit their childhood home and discuss abuse from their father. Roseanne even quotes a Patti Smith lyric in that scene.

[quote]Are you kidding? Darlene's poem episode is absolutely a Roseanne classic. The episode was a pivotal turning point for Darlene's character in terms of development.

lmao. No it wasn't. Darlene's depression was the turning the point. You are not really familiar with this show.

[quote]Lacey is not very good

Lacey has become the best part.

The episode referred to above was called “fights and stuff” in season 8 and it was as thrilling as described. It also had a raw moment when Roseanne screamed at Dan that he was “pathetic” for blaming her on him not having a relationship with his family anymore

[quote] Lacey has become the best part.

Guys, I think you’re in the wrong thread. Tyne is on the Murphy Brown reboot, not this one. And most agree she is the best part!

Well Dan and Roseanne really did screw over Becky. If I'm remembering right they used her college fund money to buy the bike shop. How do they expect her life to get better when they took away the one thing that would help her? She could've gotten financial aid and loads though, that was a bit of a plothole.

[quote]lmao. No it wasn't. Darlene's depression was the turning the point. You are not really familiar with this show.

Darlene's poem is absolutely a classic episode. Deal with it.

Becky was a straight A student. They gave Darlene money to go to art school though...and then she started hanging out with that older woman and Rosie was pissed and thought the chick was creepy.

r432, when Dan revealed to Becky that there wasn't any money in her college fund, he suggested that she could go to community college for the first two years. That wasn't good enough for Becky, who was a little bit of a snob.

[quote]If I'm remembering right they used her college fund money to buy the bike shop.

They remorgeged the house and used Ziggy's money to buy the bike shop.

I agree that Darlene's poem is a classic episode. It's the first time that Darlene shows some vulnerability. She was always pretending to be the sarcastic kid who doesn't care if she fits in or not. But now, we can see she does care. Earlier in the episode, before the reading, she shouts that she can't wait to move away from Lanford. Throughout the series, she would continue to shout that same refrain over and over again...until she became pregnant.

I think Darlene's story arc reflected that of Roseanne Barr, who grew up Jewish and surrounded by Mormons in Utah. Not feeling that she was accepted by her peers and then just giving up and pretending she didn't want their acceptance anyway.

Darlene likely had a crush on Karen, the bookstore owner. She also seemed to be in denial about her feelings for Molly, the next door neighbor.

r437 there's no place in America where Jews are a majority. We all grow up someplace where we're "surrounded" by another faith. Using LDS as a plotline for her own backstory is a bit disingenuous. Roseanne likes to play victim when too often she was the bully.

Here’s the fight

Leci was pretty good back then.

Lecy was excellent as Becky in the original series. She and Sara (as Darlene) were the most realistic portrayal of American teens on TV ever. Those girls had depth, unlike every other "OMG!" teen girl on TV. Unfortunately they couldn't or wouldn't give DJ similar depth. He was the classic "pop in and out of the scene only as needed" child.

Sarah Chalke never got the part right. She's demonstrated better acting skills elsewhere though (and I love her as the voice of Beth on Rick and Morty), so I think a big problem was the show not knowing what to do with her and not giving her enough guidance.

And since it came up, Darlene's infamous poem:

[quote] She could've gotten financial aid and loads though, that was a bit of a plothole.

Yeah, financial aid never covers the whole expense. She would have to take loads on the weekends to get some extra money. But, if she asked nicely, I'm sure that Crystal's son Lonnie could teach her how to douche a load out quick enough so she could turn tricks faster. It's quantity, not quality, that counts.

R443...Yep, still a CLASSIC.

[quote]Did they forget Jerry and Jackie' kid again?

Jerry and Andy are the Chuck Cunnighams of the Roseanne reboot/The Conners. I also don't think this reboot or spin off ever addressed what happened with Dan's dad Ed who was married to Crystal. Ed and Crystal had two kids together. I remember one was born before Jackie had Andy on the original series.

Be honest. How many of you actually liked the character of Darlene? She treated everyone like shit especially David and her flat, monotone delivery wore on me as the series progressed.

It's rather ironic she's written in the reboot as the responsible parent who took care of her kids while David became an irresponsible lout. In the original series, their characters were well defined - he was her devoted doormat and she was the selfish asshole in the relationship.

Thanks for the clips R440 and the rest. Roseanne (the show) was really something special, different and real. What remarkable chemistry they all had. Makes me want to buy the DVDs. That's what I'm about to do.

[quote]when Dan revealed to Becky that there wasn't any money in her college fund, he suggested that she could go to community college for the first two years. That wasn't good enough for Becky, who was a little bit of a snob.

I remember that and then a two or three seasons later they had that storyline where Dan and Roseanne gave money to Becky so she could attend the local community college and she gave to Mark so he could go.

Speaking of Mark, if they will ever reveal what he died of off screen. I wonder if the writers would go the route of having him die of a drug overdose like Glenn Quinn.

Darlene, like most of the characters, became very unlikeable as the show went downhill. During the show's peak though, she was awesome. Not as in an awesome person, but an awesome character.

I love the scene at 17:20 in this episode where Roseanne decides not only that Darlene can go away to school, but pushes her to even after Darlene changes her mind.

"Darlene, you're not normal. You dress funny, you're weird, you're too smart for your own damn good. Let’s face it, Darlene, you’re special. And I think you can be something great."

And the topper: "So what, you get there and you find out you suck. Great. You’re gonna be the first Conner to suck in college. You can come back home. We ain't going nowhere, never have for 20 years. "

And since I'm posting clips, one of my all time favorite scenes:

I didn't like Darlene at all. She was just a humorless, ugly troll. I liked the Becky/Mark episodes. Too bad they never developed Mark more.

Sara Gilbert is just another example of nepotism gone mad. Her last name isn't even Gilbert. I suppose she took the name of her mother's ex-husband in order to capitalize on her half-sister, Melissa's fame. I just looked up her bio and it says her maternal grandfather created The Honeymooners.

N E P O T I S M.

At least, Sara seemed to have managed her money well and doesn't owe the IRS like Melissa. But, I agree nepotism aided their careers and it's sort of dick move that Sara used the "Gilbert" surname to help her career.

r453 Death has a way of stopping character development.

R456- Glenn Quinn died way after Roseanne ended.

Was Glenn using drugs during Roseanne?

R458- Most likely. He was basically fired from Angel for his drug use. Perhaps that's why the stunted development of the character on Roseanne. He was a wise ass when he first came on then all of a sudden he was as dumb as a box of rocks.

"Darlene" did not write that poem, folks. Joss Whedon did. He did a great job while on the show.

The end of the depressed Darlene arc was one of my favorite episodes. Roseanne finally confronts her on the couple she's hanging out with and all the stuff that has happened. Darlene, with venom in her voice, tells her "I don't want to be like YOU!" There is a pause as you think Roseanne is going to break down, but instead she replies, "Face it, Darlene. You are EXACTLY like me!" It was gut wrenching, iluminating, and hilariously funny at the same time. That's brilliant writing.

R460 Thanks for clearing that up, twat. We all thought a fictional character wrote it. My fucking god - what a moron.

The Russians are manipulating the ratings.

r456 he was killed off on Angel after a few episodes. The gossip was his drug addiction - and this was in '99, right after he left Roseanne. For all the sympathy he received from the cast, there was no intervention from Roseanne or the producers. He tried rehab at the end, but got kicked out and died shortly after.

Seasons 4, 5 and the first half of 6 were magical television. Was they ever anything so real, raw, yet absolutely hilarious ever on network TV?

The finale of season 8 was the last best episode they did. That fight was electric TV - you could feel 25 years of frustration and disappointment in every line.

R395, I agree 100% with your thoughts on the poem episide and the later seasons. I guess if someone is a fan of seasons 6-8, they may not enjoy the early seasons as much. But I think seasons 2-5 are some of the best television ever. The later seasons lost the warmth and chemistry of the cast and replaced it with overacting and bad writing.

Anyway, I was the one who first brought up the poem episode. Aside from all of the insights into Darlene's inner thoughts, I love the episode for the parenting talk. Dan and Roseanne arguing about whether to force Darlene to read the poem is just so real and authentic. I love how Roseanne had to convince Dan to listen to her point of view. I love how Roseanne is still unsure when she shows up at the school with Jackie. I love Roseanne embarrassing Darlene with the picture taking. The whole episode was funny, poignant, and real.

And the best thing about the episode R466 is, rather than let it linger on sentiment, it ends with Darlene giving her mother the death stare for taking pictures. Poignant but still very real.

Not getting the love for Dan at all. He's the very definition of a working class loser who boozed it up and never had a single intellectual thought in his head. He and his shrew wife could barely keep a roof over their family's head and yet they popped out yet another kid.

Melissa Gilbert was adopted. Sara was not.

R469 Well, Melissa lucked out that she was adopted by a couple that had a lot showbiz connections.

[quote]For all the sympathy he received from the cast, there was no intervention from Roseanne or the producers.

Why the fuck was his sobriety the responsibility of Roseanne or the producers? A) He was an adult, and B) he was hired to do a job.

Also, how do you know there wasn't an intervention? There could have been several attempts, for all you know!

Just watched the first couple of minutes of the first episode, and my god, John Goodman looks 80 years old!

I know that lifelong fatties tend to look weird and gaunt when they suddenly lose a lot of weight, but he looks like he's dying of cancer, quite frankly.

Goodman, Gilbert, and Metcalf all look like the Walking Dead now. People have said that countless times by now.

[quote]Not getting the love for Dan at all. He's the very definition of a working class loser who boozed it up and never had a single intellectual thought in his head.

I know several fathers just like Dan. They drink and work hard and would do anything for their families. I don't know why you call that a "working class loser".

Favorite Dan episodes: - Dan and Becky go to the mall. - The Mother's Day episode where Dan rips into Becky and Darlene. - The one where Dan beats up Fisher.

Was Mark in Roseanne til the very end? He never left the show?

R475 He was. I

Mark was on the show to the very end. His character did develop somewhat; in fact, his character arc was similar to Dan's. A guy who didn't have great parents and who wasn't the smartest guy in the world, a blue-collar worker with a strong work ethic. He marries a woman who's a good influence on him, though the woman gave up a few dreams to be with him. Dan even points out the similarities between Mark and himself when Dan has an argument with David. David had insulted Mark's lifestyle, unintentionally insulting Dan at the same time.

In one of the later episodes (I believe it was Darlene's wedding), the show even hints that Mark and Becky are pregnant with their own child. In a private conversation, Mark asks Becky when they're going to share their own big news with the family, and Becky tells him that they can't do it today since it's Darlene's wedding day, but they'll share the news soon enough. (Meghan Markle never saw this episode, obviously.)

reply 462 Oh DEAR. I was pointing out the Whedon contribution, cunt. I know you know 'she' didn't write it. But people keep saying Darlene this and that, and I wanted Whedon to get credit. By the way...go die in a grease fire.

The episode from the original Roseanne when Darlene got trashed with her friend was funny!

reply 468 Wow..."working class loser". Aren't you just the delightful fellow, Donald Trump Jr?

R477, what happened to their babby?

Was Darlene pregnant on the show?

R481, yes Darlene was pregnant on the show. She and David conceived their child on a trip to Disney World. (Disney had recently with ABC, and all ABC sitcoms were forced to write a Disney trip into their storylines. Darlene and David got married, and Dan had his heart attack during their wedding ceremony.

How were they able to afford to go to Disney Word?

The characters would never blow that much money on a trip to Disney World. The only time they ever traveled anywhere for leisure was when they got a free ride, i.e. when Arnie and Nancy took them to Vegas, when their neighbor took them in his RV.

I remember Michael Fishman collecting donations for Glenn's funeral costs.

So Becky has both her husband and mother die of drug overdose. What is she, Meredith Grey?

[quote]Mark was on the show to the very end. His character did develop somewhat; in fact, his character arc was similar to Dan's. A guy who didn't have great parents and who wasn't the smartest guy in the world, a blue-collar worker with a strong work ethic. He marries a woman who's a good influence on him, though the woman gave up a few dreams to be with him. Dan even points out the similarities between Mark and himself when Dan has an argument with David. David had insulted Mark's lifestyle, unintentionally insulting Dan at the same time.

That particular episode is one of my favorites because it gives to credit to the good hard working blue collar people out in the world. It was good to see David getting called out for insulting Mark. We all know people in real life who are just total assholes to people in blue collar jobs.

R486, The reboot never said how Mark died off screen. Years ago before the reboot, Roseanne Barr in an interview about where she thought the Roseanne characters would be at the time and she mentioned that Mark would have been killed in Iraq. It seems that when it came to developing the reboot, Roseanne's idea was changed to have that DJ had served in the war.

I do wonder if the writers will ever give more details on Mark's death and I remember some people were upset that the reboot just mentioned that he died. It could be that the writers were planning to go into further detail later on.

468- What an elitist attitude. Dan tried to at least improve the family's economic status. He was loving towards his wife and kids and wanted the best for them. He was also less permissive than Roseanne.

One thing that doesn't ring true is Becky and Mark not having kids. They married so young and realistically they would have had one soon after. Darlene was more the type to never have been married or have kids. I know that all happened at the end of the original show, but now with the reboot it doesn't seem realistic.

R489 Last season on the reboot, Becky tried to be a surrogate for a wealthy couple and had lied about her age. She believed that she could carry a pregnancy because Roseanne had Jerry in her 40s. IIRC, the doctor said there wasn't much of a chance Becky being able to get pregnant as a surrogate. Later in the episode, Becky told Darlene that when Mark was alive they were trying to conceive all the time and it didn't happen. I think the writers wanted the audience to believe that Becky or Mark was sterile. I'm leaning that it was Becky.

[quote] She believed that she could carry a pregnancy because Roseanne had Jerry in her 40s.

Did she actually refer to Jerry, the phantom child? I don’t remember this.

And the wealthy woman Becky was to be a surrogate for was played by......Sarah Chalke. It was sweet and clever. Roseanne had some great little inside winks in the show, always. Like when the new Becky sit watching TV with the family and complained about them replacing Darren on Bewitched and how nobody would believe that.

*sat

Actually I am happy the reboot hasn’t gone all meta. That gets old quick.

What's more meta that the OG becky carrying a child for the replacement Becky?

When Darlene gave birth on the original show it was when the family had won the lotto. Remember they were saying fly doctors in from wherever, money is no object. So since that entire year supposedly wasn't real doesn't it mean Darlene never really had a baby? Or is that girl of hers supposed to be the baby Darlene and David had during the lottery year? Like they want it all ways, some of that year was Roseanne's imagination and some real? If so that really sucks and is crappy writing on the part of Roseanne and whoever wrote with her .

Best not to go there in your mind R496. Because then Dan is REALLY dead, Becky is married to David and Darlene is with Mark and I forget the deal with Jackie and Bev.

[quote]Becky is married to David and Darlene is with Mark

Wtf? Those pairings make ZERO sense, the way the characters have always been written!

I wonder whose stupid idea that was.

Before Roseanne got booted, there were several stories still to be explored -- what happened to Mark, why DJ is no longer welcome in the US Army, and David's return (although that seems like it is going to be a sappy sitcom central sort of plot). These are interesting whether or not Roseanne is involved.

We know what happened to Mark.

R499, all of those will still be explored.

[quote] Did she actually refer to Jerry, the phantom child? I don’t remember this.

Yep, first episode.

R485, and Roseanne didn’t do anything. She didn’t even go to the funeral.

Finally.

R478 Quit your cunting.

In the first episode of the reboot, it was mentioned that Jerry was working on a fishing boat in Alaska. (He must have been desperate to get out of Lanford.)

What happened to Fred and Andy? Have they mentioned them at all?

DJ is fug

[quote]We know what happened to Mark.

We know he died but not how and why.

I think DJ has grown-up to be a lot more handsome than I was anticipating. Great head of hair on him- that is for sure.

R508, I don't think he is at all. He looks like the average guy-next-door. He doesn't look like Brad Pitt, but that was the charming realism of the show. The characters look like people you'd see at your local Walmart.

In the pilot, another actor played DJ, but his mother removed him from the show after a physical altercation between the boy and Sara Gilbert. Michael Fishman was cast because he looked so much like Roseanne. Especially before all Roseanne's plastic surgery, Fishman looked as if he could have really been her son.

I recall reading somewhere that Jospeh Gordon Leviit was also up for the part of DJ -or was it Leo Dicaprio? I forget but some big name.

Joseph Gordon Levitt guest starred in several episodes as DJ's friend.

R512, no, the original actor who played DJ remains unknown: Sal Mineo. Leonardo DiCaprio would have been too old to play DJ. Though he was an extra in the "Career Day"episode.

[quote]In the pilot, another actor played DJ, but his mother removed him from the show after a physical altercation between the boy and Sara Gilbert

That mother must be kicking herself now!

[quote]We know he died but not how and why.

He died from breast cancer. Men get it too.

Roseanne was one of the first, if not THE first, to show a messy house. In a few episodes, there's a basket of laundry sitting on the couch waiting to be folded. I think it was these touches that made it such a popular show.

I also remember one of the producers being interviewed during the run of the show. He said his wife would sit down to watch the show and she would see things that he had taken from their house to put on the set.

It was Macaulay Culkin who was up for the part of DJ.

Too bad Fishman wasn't a really good actor, because appearance-wise he was perfectly cast for the role. He still looks like he could be Roseanne's real-life son.

Having Darlene get pregnant made no sense. Darlene was all about getting out of Lanford and doing better. It was a complete insult to the character.

Darlene didn't really get pregnant. That was all part of Roseanne's fiction novel. The reboot is all still part of the novel. In real life, Dan died of a heart attack and Darlene married Mark.

And the way the show kept pushing Sara Gilbert and Johnny Galecki together got ridiculous. They were not a long term couple. Darlene had a great scene the first (of several times) they broke up talking about how people who don't pursue other relationships become her parents. The show seemed to be under the impression that they were some Ross and Rachel type of couple, and they simply weren't. Plus, they emasculated Galecki to the point that he became a completely pathetic do nothing. They should have ended it when Darlene first went to school.

Basically, late 93 is when the show started to jump the proverbial shark When Bev gives Leon a share in the diner is the moment that the fins start to show.

The show did seem like they emasculated all the male characters. Dan, DJ, David, Fred, even Mark,.

R513 and Florence Henderson played his mom.

They should kept Jackie as a lez in the reboot.

I love R399 for mentioning Kathy Bowman. I loved that character

R479, that was Becky that got drunk with a friend not Darlene

Agree R525. I wonder how her operation went.

I loved the Kathy Bowman character, too. Why did she exit so quickly? I've always wondered if the actress who played her presented a threat to Roseanne. She was so perfectly cast and she and Roseanne had great chemistry. It seemed like such a waste to get rid of her so quickly.

And i agree the show emasculated all the male characters by the end. After Roseanne and Tom Arnold broke up, you could feel Roseanne's attitudes towards men take over the show.

I liked the Tildens especially Charlotte. But they just disappeared.

[quote]I liked the Tildens especially Charlotte. But they just disappeared.

The show seemed to have a pattern of introducing a lot of interesting characters with comedic and storyline potential but, for some reason or another, seemed to disappear before they could really flesh them out fully.

Kathy Bowman, the Tildens, and even Bonnie--Roseanne's waitress/singer friend. What the hell happened to her? She was a regular reoccurring character for almost 2 seasons, then disappeared without ever another mention by anyone.

I wouldn't be surprised if Roseanne got rid of them the moment she felt slighted in some way.

Does anybody recall (or realize) who played Charlotte? It was Mara Hobel !!!! from Mommie Dearest!!! I guess she was so traumatized from working with Faye Dunaway, she gained 100 pounds!!

Wow...I had no idea, R531. I remember she seemed vaguely familiar to me when I first saw her on Roseanne.

Yeah, I always wondered what happened to Bonnie. S4 was my favorite when she and Roseanne worked at the diner. I remember the ep where they both wanted Leon's job and Roseanne, who was a shitty waitress, thought she was entitled to it over Bonnie because she had kids. Roseanne was a real bitch in that episode.

In Roseanne's defense, she seemed to hire people that she liked and/or especially admired musically like Bonnie. That Mother's Day ep with Bonnie singing was gold. And she did have Bonnie on her reality show.

Bill Maher thanked her for giving him work when he couldn't get arrested.

They're obviously friends and she more than likely was hired because of Roseanne.

R514, you mean Sal Barone, not Sal Mineo.

what a mess

its become a satire/cliché of itself

I pity ms gilbert for her association with this trash

R537 Ever heard of punctuation, stupid cunt. Blocked.

If they were smart, they'd do an awesome Halloween episode next week.

I loved the Charlotte Tilden character. She was so realistic. Painfully shy, treated like crap by her more popular sister but still willing to lie to keep her sister out of trouble. I got the feeling she was based on someone from Roseanne's real life.

R540...I loved Charlotte too, mainly because she was so unlike the brash Conner clan, and that contrast was fun to see play out, especially with Roseanne.

I loved Roseanne's introduction to Charlotte's dad, Ty Tilden. First, it was awesome that an overweight actress without a perfect body unapologetically stripped down to her bra on-camera. And it wasn't gratuitous, either. It was important for setting up the scene that provided me with the biggest laugh of the entire series. Roseanne and Jackie and a few friends are having a girls' night party at Roseanne's house. (The event had originally been planned as a birthday party for Darlene, but she skipped out on it.) After the ladies dare Roseanne to run out to the garage to flash Dan, we hear her off camera yelling playfully as she embarks on her mission. Then suddenly the tone of her yelling switches from obnoxious playfulness to shock, and she runs back into the girls' night party looking shocked. Then Dan walks into the house with Ty and says "This is our new neighbor Ty. Ty, you've met my wife, Roseanne." Then Ty says, "Roseanne, you sure know how to make a guy feel welcome."

[quote]They're obviously friends and she more than likely was hired because of Roseanne.

I remember reading an article about how Roseanne was a big fan of Bonnie's singing and specifically wrote the recurring part for her. I'm assuming that Bonnie just moved on to other things since acting wasn't her usual job.

Kathy Bowman was Roseanne's commentary on interacting with her rich and snobby neighbors after she got rich from the show. They were funny, but I don't know how much more story you can do with a one-joke character like that.

Everyone knows a Kathy Bowman. She's just too good for you, but she won't tell you exactly why. She hates her life and needs a target to transfer (unload) her misery. And she's picked you.

They should do a 20th high school reunion episode and bring back both Tilden sisters as guest stars.

20th high school reunion? Wouldn't it be more like 45 years?

The show actually made a point about how some friends and neighbors come into and out of your life with Bonnie. When the mall restaurant closes Bonnie laments they won't stay friends. Roseanne protests but Bonnie was right.

My favorite episode was the one where Jackie is in community theater and is the understudy to the female lead in Cyrano de Bergerac. The lead actress can't go on and Jackie hasn't memorized the lines so Roseanne prompts her. Absolutely hilarious - reminded me of an I Love Lucy episode.

[quote] Everyone knows a Kathy Bowman. She's just too good for you, but she won't tell you exactly why. She hates her life and needs a target to transfer (unload) her misery. And she's picked you.

We lived across from two of those cunts in the 70s and my mom was their target. I eventually told them off, though.

[quote]My favorite episode was the one where Jackie is in community theater and is the understudy to the female lead in Cyrano de Bergerac. The lead actress can't go on and Jackie hasn't memorized the lines so Roseanne prompts her. Absolutely hilarious - reminded me of an I Love Lucy episode.

Yeah, that's a great episode. Laurie Metcalf is such a great comedic actress. That's why it's so puzzling how bad she is in the reboot.

Because the writing for her character is so broad and over the top. She can bring the funny to realistic situations, as best illustrated in the classic phone call to her aunt about their father's death.

For me, I think it was the 2-parter where Roseanne, (and we, the audience) discovers that Jackie has been a victim of physical abuse by her live-in boyfriend, Fisher. It was as close as you could to just the right combination of serious social statement and hilarity. One of the most beautifully written and acted hours of television. It was Metcalf's "Emmy" episode, but Roseanne was on the top of her game . The scene where Darlene has to bail Dan out of jail was one of their funniest ever, but my favorite scene was Roseanne confronting FIsher in his living room while helping Jackie pack her things and move out. She gave this great speech about how she's most angry at herself because of how much she liked FIsher and she couldn't believe how he fell right out of her radar. Then she drops his television, breaking it and exits.

Again, it was Roseanne at its best!

Below is the only clip I could find. It's solely dramatic, but Goodman plays it beautifully.

The episodes dealing with Jackie being abused is right up there with their father's death episode in terms of perfect balance of harsh reality and biting but side-splitting humor.

Another thing that was great about that 2-part episode was that the story was built up in the several episodes before it. You see Jackie, already frail from prior bad relationships, enter a whirlwind romance with a guy who totally overwhelms her and it moves really quickly into the 2 of them living together all the while she's really insecure about the relationship and at several points wants to break it off. Fisher beating her doesn't just drop out of the sky, there's a momentum that leads to it. For a TV sitcom, that's a pretty relative well-rounded depiction of an abusive relationship.

R553 Yup!!

Remember when Darlene used to be the weird one?

[quote] The show actually made a point about how some friends and neighbors come into and out of your life with Bonnie. When the mall restaurant closes Bonnie laments they won't stay friends. Roseanne protests but Bonnie was right.

Not true, boyfriend got a job. Had nothing to do with the restaurant.

[quote] Basically, late 93 is when the show started to jump the proverbial shark When Bev gives Leon a share in the diner is the moment that the fins start to show.

No, it was 95 when Roseanne finally got pregnant. Roseanne came into its own with the gay kiss, Nancy coming coming, the Lunch Box, David, Jackie beat up, etc.

The hard-bodied young Seth Rogan was without peer.

R552 I love that scene of Roseanne and Jackie arguing and how Roseanne brought up that Jackie used to be a cop. They so rarely referenced that on the show in later seasons.

Also, if you search youtube for "Roseanne crime and punishment", both episodes are there in full.

Jackie used to get all of the hot men: Booker, Gary, Fisher. It's a shame that she ended up marrying Fred.

My favorite episode is when Jackie takes Roseanne to her therapy session to help resolve their differences. Roseanne is asked to say something positive about Jackie and cannot help but to add a criticism along with the positive reinforcement! The actress playing the therapist had the funniest reactions.

It’s crazy with how vapid/stupid sitcoms are these days that that season (5) saw Jackie get brutally beaten up, them lose their electricity from being so poor, the dad die of a heart attack, Becky run away and elope, and Darlene move away to college at 16 to get away from home.

Yes, the Charlotte character was the best of the recurring characters, along with Kathy Bowman. The best episode was when Molly and Darlene go to a Daisy Chainsaw concert in Rockford and Charlotte goes over to the Conners to make dinner. "You have a meatloaf recipe?" - Roseanne to Charlotte, "Aren't you 16?"

[bold] the dad die of a heart attack[/bold]

The dad?

[quote]The show actually made a point about how some friends and neighbors come into and out of your life with Bonnie. When the mall restaurant closes Bonnie laments they won't stay friends. Roseanne protests but Bonnie was right.

Didn't Bonnie also mention that she and her biker husband moved around a lot? I'll admit that I loved the BBQ episode where they sang in the background and Bonnie stole the show.

[quote] The hard-bodied young Seth Rogan was without peer.

Huh?

[quote] The dad?

Roseanne's dad, which leads, of course, to this classic scene.

Darlene clearly never had the dream season baby, because that child would be in its twenties now and her kids on the reboot are younger.

I never bought that Darlene would stay in Lanford and marry young. She had been written as destined to leave and accomplish bigger things. Darlene would have move to San Francisco, come out as a lesbian and be a renowned artist living in Nob Hill.

I also never bought Dan & Roseanne having Jerry. It made no sense that two people over forty, struggling financially to the point that they couldn't pay for electricity or medical insurance, who already had three children, would voluntarily have another baby.

In the original series (before the "Roseanne was just writing a novel" retcon), Darlene and David have a girl and name her Harris. In the reboot Darlene and David have a daughter named Harris. So yes, I think we are to assume she's the same child. Her being only a teenager in the reboot isn't the only thing that shows lack of continuity.

Also, in the original series, by the time they have baby Jerry, Roseanne and Dan are doing OK financially. They have the Lunch Box which is supposed to be doing well and Dan has a city job that pays well with good benefits. Becky and Mark were also still doing OK at that point, and Darlene had left for art school on a full scholarship. Financially at least, having another baby wasn't so outlandish an idea.

I wonder how tonight's epi will do? I hope it crashes.

R569 I hope your tests come back positive.

[quote]My favorite episode was the one where Jackie is in community theater and is the understudy to the female lead in Cyrano de Bergerac.

Tureen of BAEEF!

I love the scene where Molly comes over and she's doing a bit of flirting with David in front of Darlene. Molly goes to the collar of David's shirt, tucks in the tag and says, "Your tags out."

After she leaves, Darlene goes over to David, rips the tag out of his shirt and says, "Your tags out."

This horrible show, The Conners, must die. SJW shitfest.

I'm loving Lecy lately.

I said it upthread, Becky is the only interesting part of this show. Sara Gilbert should not be the star. There is nothing interesting/entertaining about her or her kids. Same as on The Talk, she is the weak link but since she produces it, she stays.

Yeah, I really think Lecy is bringing her A-game. She's proving that she could be the star of her own show one day.

Michael Fishman, per usual, is basically a statue.

Lecy needs to bring it down just a notch.

The alcoholism storyline will give her a chance to show her dramatic chops.

The character that needs bringing it down a notch is JACKIE.

He's not winning any awards but Michael Fishman is doing fine.

Michael Fishman is a lump. He needs to make maybe two appearances a season.

Michael Fishman had more lines in the 80s episodes.

Michael Fishman still can’t act.

And he's a fundie.

does Roseanne realize every interview she gives with her chain smoking makes her look nasty as a dirty old sow??? she has no self awareness or respect for her body, or anyone elses lungs.

slob has bottomed out.

No he isn’t r583.

R583 seriously stop it. He's not a fundie. He's actually very outspoken as a liberal and was ine of the first in the cast to condemn Roseanne for her racist twee. He's an all. Stop trying to push that narrative. We need allies right now.

Michael actually has a nice tush on him.

was anyone else watching tonight? It was kinda dull... sometimes funny. Becky did have a good shot at a plot and had some good lines. I think they're overdoing it with "Blue" being such a wacko. I think the whole season will be seeing if Darlene gets back together with David, when they're obviously a better fit than him and "blue". Without Roseanne, it's not as witty. It's like Caesar salad without the dressing.

[quote] It's likely that Goodman also supported Trump, btw, given what close pals he and Roseanne are. And the DJ guy is from a family of fundies, you know they all voted for him. So supporting this show is hardly being anti-trump.

Goodman who starred in the anti-Right Wing/anti-religious crazies film, "Red State", is a Trumpster?

Micheal FISHMAN, who is Jewish, is a Fundie? Since when?

Where the fuck do you get your information?! 😂😂😂😂😂

Roseanne would have sucked the life out of every scene by insisting on politicizing it and making sure the orange one’s voice was heard. As in - no we aren’t getting you a morning after pill and there would be less jokes about trailer parks and diabetes free women. The two best lines in tonight’s show.

The show was all about setting up plot lines for the short 10 episodes they have, so it was exposition with a joke attached to almost every plot point. It was therefore a little much to have Darlene set her divorce in motion and Becky’s alcoholism come to the foreground. Juliette Lewis overplayed her part. Darlene underplayed hers. Becky did well but the writers don’t have to have a laugh line with every alcoholism implication. I enjoyed it and will continue watching.

[quote]The show was all about setting up plot lines for the short 10 episodes

Yeah, this explains it.

R590 I doubt Roseanne would have mentioned Trump, you sick fuck. She knows she was the only one out of 100 on the cast who supported him. So stick that up your ass, you moron.

I just watched The Conners. It was actually good. I'm shocked. David is always great. I actually laughed quite a few times. They did a good job. I like that they are adding new characters finally. It felt like the old Roseanne for once. I am finally hopeful it will be funny again. Jackie was finally funny.

tHow can you all be so sure that gazillionaire Johnny Galecki - one of two of the highest paid TV stars of the last decade - is gonna stick around for more than a few episodes of a mediocre arc in a reboot show? It’s not like his billing would be included in the wealth distribution should the show take off, and the gratitude he owes the production should only go so far.

Even if he were doing it as a favor to his buddy Gilbert, he already got her work in the country’s number one show when she was unemployed. I’d say he’s been more than generous already.

Yeah, some of you are treating the David character like a pivotal one in the show. I wouldn’t count on it, unless they re-cast.

It will be hard to pull off having the show be centered around David’s and Darlene’s relationship fresh isafter ten years of Leonard...and the millions of dollars behind it.

David was the best thing about the episode. He is the only seasoned pro on the show right now. The rest are all very rusty. By next season Galecki will be available full time for the whole season. He has agents. He will be paid fairly.

Plus as others have mentioned the original Roseanne started falling apart in the middle of season 6 and got progressively worse until the abortion of season 9. It was all due to Roseanne's severe mental illness, being on anti-depressants, anti-psychotics and who knows what else. She made every other actor into terrible actors in the last few seasons.

Galecki made this episode. He is the only one in the original cast who became a big star with actual talent. He truly is slumming it with the cast of Roseanne.

Interesting.

Juliet Lewis said today that she was on for three episodes SO FAR. So she and Galecki could return. There is no way Galecki was paid $400 grand for three episodes and Gilbert's salary was so high because she is a major producer too.