Can we do a thread about gay actors from Classic Hollywood?

No. No we can’t.

[quote] I've always like David Manners

I had to look him up. The studio executive had some fun with him. These can't ALL be coincidences. Amongst his film titles:

He Knew Women

Sweet Mama

Kismet

The Truth About Youth

Mothers Cry

The Right to Love

The Greeks Had a Word for Them

Man Wanted

Stranger in Town

They Call It Sin

From Hell to Heaven

The Warrior's Husband

The Devil's in Love

Roman Scandals

The Great Flirtation

Well, obviously, Hollywood heartthrob Rock Hudson own this thread.

But, I will throw in Farley Granger and John Dall in Rope.

I am a big fan of Montgomery Clift. Stunning face and acting ability. What a waste of talent.

And, Dirk Bogarde in Victim, The Servant, and Death in Venice. Pictured here in the Hunted (1952).

I love Dirk Bogarde!!!! Do any eldergays here have any stories?

r3 Classic Hollywood was before that.

Love Ramon Novarro

Sorry, R7. I'm not an eldergay, just a cinephile.

No R8. Classic Hollywood (or the "Golden Age") was from the 1910s-1960s. Hudson was a leading man during the 1950s and 1960s. His biggest films: All that Heaven Allows, Giant, and Pillow Talk were all during this time. Check your facts.

[quote] What a waste of talent.

I don’t think his talent was wasted. He was in some great and memorable films and was often the best part of them. What is a shame is that an accident stopped his career and life, from which it was hard to rebuild, and the closet and treatment of homosexuals in those days caused irreparable damage to an already frail soul. The accident also changed his almost perfect looks.

Novarro was murdered by two male prostitutes (brothers).

Here's Thomas Beck, he was never a star but was in a lot of B pictures. He left movies in 1939 and later went to Florida with his partner and sold real estate. The other actor is Peter Lorre, of course.

Farley + Roddy (and some cock block)

Gardenia.

[quote]Ramon Novarro

My granny (who thought he was hot) used to pronounce it "RAY-mun Na-VA-ruh"

Mr Manners looks like the love child of Cary Grant and Randolph Scott

I've seen Thomas Beck in a couple things, didn't know he was gay

Michael Whalen was a tall, dark, and handsome leading man in some thirties films

OP, this 97 year old's interview says George Cukor brought David Manners to Hollywood and cast him opposite Kate Hepburn,

^ Was the casting couch involved?

Dirk Bogarde was a war hero. He helped liberate Bergen Belsen. It traumatized him for the rest of his life.

I always liked Anthony Perkins.

Gay actor David Manners played the slave of the vampire in the original Dracula.

He eventually left Hollywood, had a male partner for many years, and wrote a metaphysical spiritual book which I have.

He was very popular back in the 1930's.

David Manners was a Canadian actor, born in the province of Nova Scotia, and lived to the ripe old age of 98.

He was quite the looker back in the day.

R2 is one of the funniest posts I've read in 10 years here

R24 David Manners was not Renfield, which is who is in the picture you linked. That was Dwight Frye.

Manners played Johnathan Harker, Mina's fianceé.

kxakd

r14, that cock block is none other than DL fave Jane Powell! Wonder if she has any dish on Farley and Roddy...

Douglass Montgomery - played Laurie opposite Katharine Hepburn in Little Women

Roddy is clearly very young in that photo....teens it seems to me. Damn, Farley was beautiful.

William Haines

Clifton Webb

Van Johnson

Van was hot when he was young. Did he hook up with any other actors? Or at least some MGM chorus boys?

We REFUSE to believe Douglass Montgomery was gay!

^Guuuuuuurl

What about the guys who always played prissy -- like Franklin Pangborn, Grady Sutton, and Edward Everett Horton?

I read somewhere that EE Horton had a small summer theater and that Franklln Pangborn would sometimes appear in the plays, but I can't find a source for that.

Great Garbo and Ramon Novarro in Mata Hari - The Original Moment By Moment!

R33, Van Johnson was a very good friend of Keenan Wynn and his wife, Evie. The trio spent a lot of time together. Meanwhile Van's studio, MGM, was getting worried about all the rumors about perennial bachelor Van and gave him an ultimatum: marry or else. He balked and said the only woman he would ever consider marrying was Evie. The marriage produced a daughter but ended in divorce. Van never remarried. spent the rest of his life estranged from his daughter.

Sorry, I meant R34.

There was a rumor that Van was busted for public sex with a sailor during the war, but MGM covered it up

William Eythe and Lon McCallister were an item

[quote] I am a big fan of Montgomery Clift. Stunning face and acting ability.

Hairy, too.

But he was Princess Tinymeat

bumping

Bobby Harron, a promising silent film actor who died under "mysterious circumstances" was whispered to be gay

Richard Cromwell, Angela Lansbury's gay 1st husband!!!

Ross Alexander. Possibly bi, twice married but had gay trouble (covered up by the studio), and then killed himself. His obsession with Bette Davis and her scornful rejection of him should earn him a minor niche in the DL pantheon.

The great line from "Mata Hari," What's the matter, Mata?

Why haven't any of you bitches mentioned me yet?

Ugh, Van Johnson was never hot, never a good actor and never a good dancer. He rode to fame during WWII on the backs of all the good actors who were caught up in military service whilst he somehow wormed his way out of it. Poser!

"He rode to fame during WWII on the backs of all the good actors who were caught up in military service whilst he somehow wormed his way out of it."

He was exempt for medical reasons, if you want to slam someone for "worming" their way out of serving how about John Wayne?

Speaking of John Wayne—he was a fag.

Carleton Carpenter, still living at 92. Wonder if he has any dish on Scotty Bowers!

So Warner Brothers quickly needed a replacement for Ross Alexander and they picked Ronald Reagan.

^ Damn, wish we could go back in time and slap that pistol out of Ross's hands!!!!!

Van Johnsons female co-stars at MGM like Lana Turner, Gloria De Haven and Esther Williams, must have known he was gay, and he was camp as hell. Bet they found it hilarious to go along with the fantasy that he was a ladies man, and funny that he was irressistable to hoards of women.

How about Nils Asther?

Tyrone Power

Odd parallels between Montgomery Clift and Phillips Holmes (pictured), who starred in the first version of An American Tragedy twenty years before it was remade as A Place in the Sun. Both were Libby Holman's lovers, both were closeted. Holman left Phillips for his brother Ralph, whom she married, though she, Philips and Ralph were gay (or sporadically bisexual). Holman lived with several women over the years, including Jane Bowles. Phillips died in a plane crash in WWII, Ralph swallowed a fatal dose of barbiturates a few years later, and twenty years after the release of A Place in the Sun, Holman killed herself via carbon monoxide poisoning in her Rolls Royce. Holman was also rumored to have shot her first husband, tobacco heir Smith Reynolds, though his death was later ruled a suicide.

Phillips Holmes was quite pretty, and a nice body for the period.

A cheat list for the gaylings"

Slideshow with the most commonly known 'mos:

This 60-second montage is gay gay gay!

Documentary!

I'm not sure how many of the men listed here were actually gay.

Looks interesting

R67 = Frau. Do you really think Van Johnson and co. we're straight?

ty4turtu

In his later years, Van was very open and flamboyant. He came thru a summer theater I was working at and when meeting him he presented his hand like I should kiss it and remarked how fortunate it was that when he and I got married I wouldn't have to change my name. I stayed clear the rest of the week.

r71, were you a cute twink?

ewew

Nils Asther, Swedish born actor portrayed Charlie Chan in several films and was quite handsome and very gay.

Nils and Rex on their wedding day...

Kate about qualifies...

r74 ... strongly resembles [italic]Rosalind Russell,[/italic] there!

This is a good thread. Thanks, bitches.

Nils has major gayface at r74

Not entirely on point but close: H. H. Asquith, UK PM from 1908-1916, was responsible for jailing Oscar Wilde. Asquith's son, Anthony (pictured here) in a twist of fate turned out to be gay. He also directed what many consider to be the best Wilde screen adaptation, 1952's The Importance of Being Earnest. Anthony, more Pinewood than Hollywood, helmed Pygmalion, We Dive at Dawn, The Winslow Boy, The Browning Version, Orders to Kill, The Millionairess, The VIPs, and The Yellow Rolls Royce as well. He did a very small spot of acting on the side.

"The Singing Capon" himself, Nelson Eddy. Howard Strickling files from MGM note concerns over Eddy"......spending a great amount of time hovering around actor Tom Brown in a way that makes Brown uncomfortable...." Brown had a featured role in "Maytime" (1937) although he and Eddy shared no scenes. Eddy, however, showed up to watch. Eddy had a longer relationship with actor William Tannen and helped him get a role in 1940's "New Moon". This was shortly after Eddy and Tyrone Power created a mini-scandal by becoming involved in 1938 when Power was loaned by 20th Century Fox for MGM's "Marie Antoinette". Zanuck ordered Power to marry Annabella and Eddy was commanded by Louis Mayer to marry Ann Franklin, a casual friend and escort to Eddy previously. According to the Strickling files, the Tannen relationship was the final straw and Mayer waning respect for Eddy reached a nadir. Eventually Eddy, while remaining married, had a longterm relationship with Theodore (Ted) Paxson, his accompanist and musical director for many years. Louella Parsons had a hefty file on Eddy's dalliances with men and often threatened to use it, settling instead for periodic "suggestive remarks" about Eddy's masculinity in her popular column.

A bit before Hollywood, but Mrs. Fisk was known to have coined the term "Scissor Sisters."

But I thought Nelson Eddy was in love with Jeanette McDonald???!!!!!

Tom Brown was clearly a tease, R181. Here he is stroking Richard Dix's gun in Hell's Highway.

Brown and gay Richard Cromwell in Annapolis Farewell

R80 Very informative and ironic.

Is there any more gay dirt in the Howard Strickling files?

I know that Van Johnson and Gene Raymond have been mentioned here several times. Charles Farrell and Buddy Rogers, the latter being quite dishy.

I prefer Farrell.

Bogarde gave one of the most unsung performances of the 1960s, as Robert Gold in "Darling". Julie Christie got all the attention (not without reason) but Bogarde's quiet performance of the tortured Gold, who leaves his wife for Christie and even after she moves on never gets her out of his system, did not get the attention it merited, in my view. He was such a fine actor that his performances were taken too much for granted.

And I thought he was dee-vine to look at with a luscious voice.

Farley Granger was at his most beautiful in Rope (1948).

The best documentary on Gay Hollywood is, of course, The Celluloid Closet.

The Celluloid Closet was more about gay Hollywood films and their content than it was about actors.

Anyway, Jon Ericson married a couple of times, but whenever I see him in a movie (like Rhapsody, Bad Day at Black Rock, Pretty Boy Floyd), he always comes across as gay.

R91 I have Farley Granger's memoir. He had sex with both men and women and considered himself bisexual although at the end of his life he had a male partner.

Has anyone mentioned Tom Drake, Judy's "Boy Next Door?"

Farley Granger, happy and handsome.

R82, "You're too short for that gesture. Besides, it went out with Mrs. Fisk."

(R83) Sorry but the Strickling files confirm NO love lost between the enormously popular duo. In fact Miss MacDonald requested, several times, to not be reteamed with Eddy. She had a much friendlier relationship with Allan Jones, a singer that Eddy made a pass at and was rebuffed physically. The MacDonald-Eddy team was popular enough at the box-office that Eddy's threat to walk if Jones remained on the lot, was taken seriously and Jones never achieved the heights of stardom that his talents warranted. After he left the lot, Miss MacDonald never forgave Eddy for what she described as his "...boorish and juvenile antics...." She and her husband maintained a friendship with Jones and his wife, actress Irene Hervey for many years.

Allan Jones was Jeanette MacDonald's co-star in "The Firefly," in which he sang "The Donkey Serenade." He was the father of singer Jack Jones.

(R99) Allan also made a brief appearance in two operatic sequences of the 1936 MacDonald-Eddy film, "Rose Marie". Much of his footage ended up on the cutting room floor at the insistence of Eddy. She and Jones are great together in "The Firefly". Jones often told the story that he recorded "The Donkey Serenade" for RCA on the day his son, Jack, was born.

Allan Jones. A good singer but not very handsome.

(R87) The Strickling files confirm the relationship between Vincente Minnelli and Gene Kelly during "The Pirate" in particular and the effect it had on Judy Garland's mental health.

Allan Jones plays Gaylord Ravenal in the 1936 "Show Boat," which also stars Irene Dunne, Helen Morgan, Paul Robeson and Hattie McDaniel. It's superior in every way to MGM's color remake, which truncates the story to give Kathryn Grayson and Howard Keel a happy ending.

(R103) I totally agree. No comparison to the 1951 version.

The 1936 "Show Boat" was directed by Hollywood homosexualist James Whale, better remembered for "Frankenstein" and "The Bride of Frankenstein."

The Golden Couple.- Cary Grant and Randolph Scott.

While watching older movies I noticed handsome William Henry who appeared the young Gilbert Wynant in the first The Thin Man film and shortly after in Tarzan Escapes as Jane's cousin Eric. But he apparently was not gay, having married twice and having children with both. William Henry went on to do many B-movies and later mostly character actor roles.

I don't care what anybody's daughter says, Cary and Randy were clearly in love.

The photos of them living together was at the same time in Hollywood history that Marlene Dietrich, Katharine Hepburn and Greta Garbo wore pants in public (very shocking at the time!) and had all sorts of shenanigans with lady costars onscreen and off.

Cary and Randy must have felt the timing was right to put some signals out there. Sadly, it didn't work. and they broke up their happy home and married women they didn't love.

r102, thanks for the dirt. Any more tidbits?

I simply can't believe that with all the possibilities at The Arthur Freed Unit, Gene would have to settle for Vincente, even if he was the director.

(R110) Believe me when I say, Gene enjoyed the pleasure of a great many other members of both the Freed and Joe Pasternak units at MGM. However, during making of "The Pirate", Gene wanted to make sure he was shown more advantageously than Judy - someone he only pretended to like for public consumption. He resented the love affair that the public had with her - the kind of mass love that he would never have despite his popularity. It's not for nothing that several actresses who worked with him privately referred to him as "Smelly Kelly". It had NOTHING to do with body odor but the fact that he "...stinks as a person......"

Gene Kelly only agreed to do the sub-par SUMMER STOCK because he knew Judy was failing and needed a strong costar in that troubled time of her life and career. He was always patient and supportive of her and repaid her with the generosity she showed him on his first film FOR ME AND MY GAL.

That Vincente Minnelli rumor is bullshit and I'm betting "the Strickling File" (if it even exists) makes no mention of it.

The openly gay delicious French actor Jean-Claude Brialy who made a string of important French films with the likes of Claude Chabrol, Jean-Luc Goard & Eric Roomer.

Also, made a film with Tony Perkins in the early 60s.

(R112) Gene had no say in being assigned to "Summer Stock". Joe Pasternak wanted him for box-office assurance, period. Gene made it a very difficult shoot because he felt the material was beneath him and Judy very clearly picked-up on his feelings, further exacerbating her problems. And YES, the Minnelli-Kelly matter is clearly in the Howard Strickling files as are Miss Garland's repeated requests to have him removed from "The Pirate". Several lawyers skilled in entertainment law are reviewing the voluminous files so that when they are ready for release - in hardcover - there will be as little redaction as possible, thus giving readers a very thorough and clear view as to the machinations at the biggest movie studio during the 30's and 40's.

R114, how did you get access to the files?

(R115) I purchased them privately two years ago for $ 27,000 from someone who had worked for many years at MGM. I didn't want them sold in bits and pieces, thus losing their value from an historic place.

^ Wow, what an interesting story! Do you have any more gossip from the files to share with us?

(R177) Because they were not under contract to MGM, there is little to nothing about stars such as Cary Grant and Randolph Scott for instance. However, there are eye opening files about Robert Taylor, a lot of contract players, Charles Laughton, nothing that we don't already know about Van Johnson but some truly tragic files on Judy, supporting what many know but putting Mr. Mayer in a much kinder light. He intervenes frequently with the NY Metro office that seems to have wanted to "unload the problem" on numerous occasions. Mayer goes to bat for her a number of times.

David E ?

r118, thanks for sharing actual gossip!

This is a bit off topic, but has an accurate biography of Judy Garland been published?

(R121) I honestly don't think so. For whatever reason, each is skewed toward something different - usually interesting, but never the complete picture. It would be a compelling story for sure and would probably provide a better understanding of what happened to her and why. Too often it's "blame L.B. or the studio" although they are not the reason for the sometimes horrible choices Judy made in personal relationships. If someone, one day, really wants to write a definitive biography, I'd be happy to loan copies of the appropriate entries from the Strickling files. They provide a great deal if insight - pro and con - but it would be rewarding for Garland fans to know why a talent of that magnitude burned out by the time she was 47.

ghfghh

Not a heartthrob by any means but Victor Buono from Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?

You can see Victor Buono in a TV noir film "Goodnight My Love", set in 1940's Los Angeles, with Barbara Bain, Richard Boone, Michael Dunn, it's pretty short, about 1 hour 15 minutes.

Also Raymond Burr.

Did Danny Kaye have a string of same sex affairs, or or was it just Larry Olivier?

His wife sounds like a bulldozer.

Speaking of Victor Buono, I don't think anyone has mentioned Laird Cregar. He was a well regarded stage actor whom Hollywood discovered in the early 1940s. He scored major successes immediately as a villain (ie, a heavy) but was told he would never be a major star unless he lost a lot of weight. With the help of a crash diet and amphetamines he did so but then died a few days after surgery for problems caused by his sudden major weight loss.

I like big boys and think he was kind of hot. But he was, although a brilliant actor, very, very big.

I deliberately chose the most flattering picture I could find of Laird Cregar above. Here's how he looked more typically. But, like Raymond Burr and Mario Lanza, his weight tended to balloon up and down until his final, fatal attempt to deal with it.

Still, his success as a character actor is undenied. He was remarkably talented beyond what most of his photos suggest.

That's a load of crap about the so-called 'Strickling Files' R116. A book based on those files was written more than a decade ago...

More nonsense at R114: Kelly did the film as a favor to Garland, who he knew was struggling. He did everything EXCEPT 'make it a difficult shoot' because of the fact that Garland could barely function.

Gene Kelly was involved in the casting couch R131, at least indirectly.

(R131) I guess we have to agree to disagree. Kelly was under contract and at that juncture had no ability to decline what he was assigned to do without risking suspension. Pasternak wanted him, despite the multi-million dollar failure of the previous Garland-Kelly teaming. Despite an enormous talent, Kelly's even larger ego precluded him from doing anything for anyone else unless there was something in it for him.

(R130) While an interesting and informative book, the selections from the Strickling files were often out of context and abridged. A very worthwhile read and one every film fan should own, my plan is to present them complete by star and allow the reader to get the overall story on a favorite and their life during their time under contract at MGM. I would not have invested by 401K monies unless I felt there was a story to be told that had not been told previously.

Someone who gets surprisingly little attention on DL is Edgar Montilion "Monty" Woolley (1888-1963) who starred in one of my favourite movies The Man Who Came to Dinner.

I wish I'd thought of him during the thread on how we envisage our fellows DLers.

Monty Woolley used to cruise for sailors with his pal Cole Porter

R136 isn't making that up. They met at Yale and remained BFFs for life. The stories of them cruising together in a taxi are legion.

"Cruising with Porter in New York, they saw a sailor on the sidewalk and called him over to the car. The young man knew the score from the off as he asked: ‘What are you guys, cocksuckers?’ Woolley hardly batted an eye and replied: ‘Now that the preliminaries are over, why don’t you get in the car and we can discuss the details'."

Whose idea was it that Gene Kelly dance in those shorts in THE PIRATE? That dance sequence is fap material for real.

R81/R98, I do not want to hijack this thread, but there is a VERY devoted group of fans/fraus who claim that MacDonald and Eddy had a long-time affair, complete with failed pregnancies and suicide attempts. They have dedicated themselves to unearthing every bit of supporting evidence, and have a couple of websites where it is all laid out with documentation. The alleged affair was interrupted by many rifts between the two temperamental stars, so it is entirely possible that your Strickling files are correct in noting MacDonald’s desire not to be paired further with Eddy onscreen, and that they were hot for each other in private life.

As for Eddy having an eye for the guys, his marriage to an older, mentally unstable woman was a disaster, yet he did not divorce her even after his film career was long over. He is reported to have had a number of heterosexual affairs, including with Gale Sherwood, his post-MacDonald singing partner. Ted Paxson was his accompanist from the late 1920s until Eddy’s death. They were certainly as close as two people can be, but Paxson was married with a family. And Paxson was, to put it politely, a rather homely man. It is hard to imagine the handsome Eddy in a sexual relationship with him. But stranger partnerships have existed.

By the way, do you ever make these files available to film researchers?

However, to get things back on track, here is a photo from Dec. 1933, of Jeanette’s future husband Gene Raymond and Nelson Eddy, with a starlet. It almost looks like a J.C. Leyendecker Arrow Collar ad, where the woman is superfluous to the men’s attention to each other. Raymond was known to be bisexual/gay. Wouldn’t it be something if Nelson had fucked both Gene and Jeanette?

The rumors about Nelson, Jeanette and Gene Raymond are so confusing and conflicted. Are there any reliable bios out there?

And it's absolutely fascinating (and quite incomprehensible) to understand the enormous popularity of Nelson. Jeanette and operetta in Depression Era America.

R140, why would you believe anything "fraus" claim?

R140, there was this one certifiable woman who ran a website and before that a fan club and magazine insisting MacDonald and Eddy were thwarted lovers. She was over the top and insane but taken quite seriously by legions of elder frau. I think she called the two "MacEddy." At any rate, at one point she was the dominant editor at Wikipedia for all articles having anything to do with either star and shut out everything reasonable. It took years for her lunacy to be finally exposed and to convince rational editors at WP she was not the expert she claimed to be and get her banned.

^ When I wrote "certifiable woman" above, I meant to imply "certifiably insane woman."

Fangurls are all certifiable

The guy with the Harold Strickling files should share them with the fanfrau described at r143. Seriously, I can't believe anyone in the modern era would be so obsessed with someone like Nelson Eddy. Is she still carrying a torch for Rudy Vallee, too?

(R140) Insofar as I am not self-publishing but going with an established publisher, after the entertainment lawyers review the files, I'll be happy to provide copies for legitimate research when the time comes. I was never a real fan of the MacDonald-Eddy genre of films although I love her earlier work with Lubitsch and Mamoulian. I gave only passing notice to anything being said about their personal lives until I had the opportunity to read the files. In all honesty, there is NOTHING that indicates Nelson Eddy as being anything other than a gay man. There are four or five arrests that are noted, which the studio took pains to cover-up. In fact in one instance, Eddy and Tannen were caught by a police officer and Eddy struck the officer and was charged with assault. There is also quite a bit about Joseph Schenck from the MGM New York office wanting Mayer to dump Eddy in 1939 because of problems surrounding his off-screen behavior. There are notes about a planned MacDonald-Eddy screen re-teaming for Joe Pasternak in the late 40's. Apparently MacDonald went to Mayer and said she didn't want to work in another film with Eddy despite fan interest and "......I don't mind radio work with him as he is on his best behavior......" There is a reference to a 1949 memorandum from Schenck to Mayer telling him to drop MacDonald if she won't cooperate on the pairing. It would appear that Schenck had mellowed (???) in his attitude toward Eddy or perhaps was only interested in a potential box-office success. Raymond is referenced but never in a negative way and the studio apparently signed him for a film in early 1941 (???) with a notation that "he's clean, we'll have no problems or issues....." Not sure what that means out of context. The only semi-negative remarks that would be subscribed to MacDonald appear to be her repeated annoyance at being re-teamed with Eddy. She was also "warned" about discussing a situation in which she went over Mayer's head to the NY office about some matter "...of artistic importance......." Compared to the information about Eddy, Robert Taylor, James Stewart, Ilona Massey and several others, MacDonald comes across as professional and sane.

"Compared to the information about Eddy, Robert Taylor, James Stewart, Ilona Massey and several others, MacDonald comes across as professional and sane."

What's the dirt on Massey, Taylor, and Stewart?

Laird Cregar's early death was a tragedy. He should have been a much more significant character actor. And even with his bulk he could look impressive.

My favorite role. He owns every scene he is in.

Why didn't MacDonald like working with Eddy? Was it because of homophobia, or was he just an asshole?

"[R140], there was this one certifiable woman who ran a website and before that a fan club and magazine insisting MacDonald and Eddy were thwarted lovers. "

Oh, the old studio-trying-to-ruin-the-secret-romance fantasy! A sure sign of an insane fangirl.

I've actually seen this many times at the loonier fringes of fandom, including here in the Prancing Pony days. The fan convinces themselves that the object of obsession is having a secret romance, that the studio powers that be are trying to keep the object of obsession from their beloved, and that the fans have to intervene in order for the object of obsession to be happy. And grateful. It's a way for crazy fans to convince themselves that their idol needs the fans as much as the fan needs the idol, although people crazy enough to convince themselves of this one usually do it with living entertainers.

Question for the person with the Strickling files. Is there any information about the famous comedians at MGM, such as the Marx Brothers, Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello? Thank you for your posts. And, good luck with your project.

Strickling files dude: Why not scan ONE page that alludes to anything between Kelly and Minelli. Then some might start taking you seriously.

R152: Abbott and Costello did one film at MGM. And they weren't really funny except for maybe their first 2 or 3 films. A lot's been written about their callous disregard for rehearsing, for being on time...hence their quick descent into schlocky 'Abbott & Costello Meets..." series.

We already did this in the Scotty Bowers threads.

So sick of the duplicate threads by the Bipolar Movie Maniac/ Thread Idea Thief.

r154, that's an entirely different thread, about an entirely different person

(R150) From what I have been told by reliable sources, MacDonald was not homophobic and was in fact good friends with Franklin Pangborn, Sydney Guilaroff, Adrian, Ramon Novarro, Orry-Kelly and Cary Grant. Grant had appeared with her in a 1929 Broadway flop called "Boom Boom" but they remained very friendly. From what I could perceive in the files, she did not like Eddy's work ethic, finding it "...lazy and unprepared..." This seemed to only be when it came to motion pictures, not his singing. She was apparently known as "The Iron Butterfly" and I perused a book about her to get some information after reviewing the files. It seems she had a iron work ethic, was usually prepared, and had little patience for people who didn't take the art of moviemaking with a degree of seriousness.

(R152) Happy to check for you once all the files are returned. I didn't read everything as that would have taken longer than I had available prior to the deadline for the lawyers. However, when I get them back I'll specifically look for what you are requesting and answer.

(R148) When the files are returned, I'll respond in detail to your questions. These are hundreds and hundreds of pages - some typed, some handwritten with notations. They are to be returned no later than November. One thing I did note when perusing - about a decade or more ago, Mickey Rooney alleged to have had a sexual relationship with Norma Shearer. I think he lied. There is nothing to indicate such a connection and the only detailed info about Shearer was the studio's concern over her "spending time with George Raft....." His reported underworld connections seemed to be an odds with her on and off-screen personae. Both Strickling and Mannix wrote about the concerns. She apparently did dally, briefly, with James Stewart but then so did many others of both sexes.

Jimmy Stewart was bi?

r158, when November rolls around, you need to create a thread with all the dirt!

(R160) Thanks - that's a great idea. "The Strickling Files"!!

I could well imagine Jeanette just getting sick and tired of constantly being paired with ANY particular actor. She didn't want to be thought of as part of a team.

We've certainly heard the same of Astaire and Rogers and I'd bet that Maureen O'Sullivan probably hated doing all those Tarzan movies.

The only teaming that was probably a happy one was Myrna Loy and William Powell but at least the Thin Man movies were spaced with 2 or 3 years between them. And Loy and Powell made many non-Thin Man films in between.

More about Jimmy Stewart!

Were Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart more than roommates?

Thank you for this information and background,, R147. I wish you luck with the publication of these papers, and look forward to the book. Agree 100% with you that under the direction of L:ubitsch and Mamoulian, MacDonald was a delight - nothing like her arch MGM persona. And again, apologies to DL for taking the thread a bit off track.

I met Van Johnson while working for Disney. He was really pissy & rude to me & my boyfriend - sad, but we shrugged it off. So clearly about being repressed and bitter. Cautionary tale for sure.

Darwin Porter rides again!

How many actors were arrested on "morals charges" but had it covered it up by the studio?

I wonder what's in there about Joan Crawford.

[italic]"Memo to Nurse Station: Please group all complaints of Crawford claw marks on starlets in batches of 5 before sending to front office. We have a special fund that covers payouts now, but only at a group rate."

Was Nelson Eddy into Stout Hearted Men?

(R170) That's William Tannen his "friend" standing next to him (on the left of the screen but to Eddy's right).

Tannen was cute

That clip of Nelson Eddy is certainly conclusive proof that he was gay!!! I agree with (R172) that William Tannen is cute!!

(R140) I took several hours and looked over some of the insanity surrounding MacDonald and Eddy. At first I thought it was supposed to be a satire or that I'd wandered into a parallel universe. However, it was sheer madness and of the level of a very badly written soap opera. Perhaps it filled a need for a desperately lonely and pathetic group of fraus but there is also an underlying current of anger and hatred for the subjects, especially MacDonald's husband, Raymond. Whatever did he do to cause such rage and abject hatred? A logical thinking person would see right through the nonsense but I suppose there's a market for every kind of insanity. While not a fan of operetta, I've enjoyed several of MacDonald's films on TCM including "San Francisco". She has a pleasing tongue in cheek quality and definitely star quality. But the stuff conjured up by these individuals who are clearly stirring a cauldron, doesn't show much respect for either star. So, Nelson might have been gay. Nothing wrong with that and, in fact, it might actually generate some interest in a mostly forgotten singer.

I can't believe there are women fantarding over a guy who died 50 years ago. Get a life, ladies.

(R175) Well said!!!

I know.

The guy with the Howard Strickling files should send all the stuff about Nelson Eddy's cruising busts to the fan fraus and watch the poor dears have a meltdown

Enjoy.

r98: Interesting tidbits above about Allen Jones, whose tenure at MGM was brief. After leaving MGM, Jones went to Universal. He made a B-Musical with Jane Frazee called "Moonlight in Hawaii" where his several shirtless scenes revealed a very hairy chest (very surprising that got through, or maybe Universal was too cheap to buy a can of Barbasol) . Tony Martin replaced him at MGM.

Laird Cregar auditioned for THE MAN WHO CAME TO DINNER - he would have been just as perfect as Wooley.

Surprising Cesar Romero has not been mentioned yet. The favorite nightclub escort and dancing partner of many a Hollywood fag hag.

[quote]r181 Surprising Cesar Romero has not been mentioned yet. The favorite nightclub escort and dancing partner of many a Hollywood fag hag.

I get his name mixed up with Jeff Chandler's, for some reason : (

I've never seen their movies. Except the pretty awful FEMALE ON THE BEACH.

How is it even possible not to know Cesar Romero

I never watched that show. But I have come to appreciate Julie Newmar's body.

William Frawley

Cesar Romero's nickname in Hollywood was "Butch".

Jeanette MacDonald and Cesar Romero, a good friend, at the Hollywood Bowl in 1948 following MacDonald's record-breaking concert.

Link doesn't work

(R190) I followed what I thought were the correct steps, which I've successfully done before but.............I'll start again. My computer skills have always been somewhat lax. Fortunately, my skills elsewhere are markedly better!!! (LOL)

Take 2!!

Yay! Thank you, r188.

Jeanette looks very hard here but it might well be the angle and unflattering lighting. Cesar looks great.

Cesar Romero!

(swoon)

(R192) She was 45 at the time and had just completed a long concert before more than 20,000 people on a very hot August evening. Reportedly the number of people who came backstage was also a record number. I think she was probably a bit exhausted. And yes, Cesar looks amazing. He was one of many gay friends she had and they occasionally enjoyed lunch and gossip at the Cock n' Bull, a popular olde world restaurant that was on Sunset near Doheny for about 50 years.

Very knowledgeable group here. I'd like to throw in a name: Basil Rathbone. I've always found him devastatingly handsome with such a cultured voice. Sounds like he was married to a real piece of bull dyke work, much like Danny Kaye.

Anybody have info or anecdotes?

Basil Rathbone and his dykey wife were the premiere hosts of the British contingent in Hollywood. They warmly welcomed all visitors from across the pond.

Cesar is just so lovely and patient in that silly interview at r183. And devastatingly handsome at age 78.

He seemed completely comfortable explaining that Butch had been given to him as a nickname even though it was everything he was not.

Basil was another good friend of Miss MacDonald and yes, he liked to dally with the boys. His wife Ouida turned a willing eye as she enjoyed some female company. They were a good mix, much like Vincent Price and his wife. Basil enjoyed the company for a few months in the late 30's of MGM's famed hairstylist, Sydney Guilaroff. Here is Jeanette and her husband at a costume party with the Rathbones, who hosted.

Thank you to R196 and R198. Have never heard of Basil actually being linked with anyone so that was terribly exciting news about Mr. Guilaroff, R198. Very much appreciated.

Rathbone's later years were quite sad, reduced to living in a NYC apt (when that didn't cost a fortune) while Ouida bled him dry. Their adopted daughter Cynthia died in 1968 or so, either drugs or suicide.

Sydney Guilaroff, had he chosen to write his 1996 autobiography without the veil of the studio system hanging over it, would probably have shocked and stunned a great many. He never hid being gay from MGM, where he worked for decades, or from any of the people he worked with. In fact he stood up to Louis B. Mayer when the mogul "suggested" he get married, just as designer Adrian had and set designer Cedric Gibbons to name but a few. Guilaroff refused to enter into such an arrangement although he did adopt two sons, becoming the first single man to do so in California. Privately Guilaroff estimated he had slept with more than 1,000 men between his arrival in Hollywood in 1933 and the 1980's. A veritable who's who. When a newcomer would arrive at MGM, Sydney was one of the first people they saw. He would access them and try out various hairstyles and colors to see which worked the best. This was done in conjunction with make-up, wardrobe and a producer. It was during one of these reviews that he developed the rinse that would turn Lucille Ball into a redhead. When Nelson Eddy arrived on the lot in 1933, Sydney took him under his wing, providing suggestions, counsel and a few other things. He was a frequent visitor to George Cukor's celebrated pool parties and worked with George on many films. His book, "Crowning Glory" is accurate about many of his career highpoints and friendships BUT loses credibility because of his reluctance to come out and instead fabricate love affairs with Greta Garbo and Ava Gardner. He was a good friend to both but that was all.

I wonder if Jeanette gossiped about Nelson Eddy with Cesar and her gay pals...

OMG if anyone knew the intimate secrets of MGM's biggest stars, it was Guilaroff!

Is his bio worth reading or is it too polite? Does he mention Basil Rathbone?

(R202) IT's entertaining and some of the stories about his interactions with stars and working on certain films is enjoyable. HOWEVER, there is absolutely nothing dishy....nothing, beyond him calling Mickey Rooney "The All-American nothing". From an historical standpoint there is some interest but his professions at being straight and having affairs with several stars (Garbo and Gardner in particular), make it hard to swallow.

A wonderful book on this thread's subject is:

William Mann's BEHIND THE SCREEN; HOW GAYS AND LESBIANS SHAPED HOLLYWOOD, 1910-1969.

Besides all the actors, directors and writers mentioned, there's a lot about the Wardrobe, Production Design and Props depts. that were virtually all run by and employed with gay men and women. But there were no gay studio heads and few gay producers.

Fabulous cover photo of Marlene, Claudette and several other famous gays bathed in a lavender and pink wash.

Guilaroff used the old "dead beard" trick, where elderly guys claim to have had a hot affair with some old-timey starlet who is dead and can't dispute their claims. I know of at least 3 old, closeted actors who have done this.....

Guilaroff with some of his lady "friends"!

Nelson Eddy sounds like the Kevin Spacey of the thirties

(R207) Well noted!! I never had much interest in Eddy previously, but I look forward to finding out what the Strickling files will provide for insight into someone I referred to, before it would have been politically incorrect, as a "Cigar Store Indian with a loud voice....."

I assume the two bisexual actors mentioned in the Sydney Guilaroff article at r206, having an affair when the Fox actor was loaned to MGM in the late 1930s, were Tyrone Power and Robert Taylor? Power was there on loan making Marie Antoinette, a film particularly using the talents of Guilaroff.

And the r206 article further stated that both actors were rushed into weddings by their respective studio heads. Did Taylor marry Barbara Stanwyck and Power marry Annabella around 1938/39?

There you have it!

I was just watching "The Black Swan" on TCM with the impossibly gorgeous Tyrone Power co-starring Laird Cregar and Maureen O'Hara. Highly enjoyable and fun. Tyrone was stunning in Technicolor swashing his buckle all over the screen. Laird was decked out in very long ringlets down to his shoulders. At one point he ripped off the wig and stormed around the scene in a very butch manner.

Laird died at 31 from strenuous dieting to make him look more like a leading man. It killed him instead. I hope he got a taste of Tyrone between scenes. Maureen's character was cock teased by Tyrone's character before succeeding at getting in his breeches by calling him "Jamie Boy" three times.

Jeanette and Nelson were known to their detractors as The Iron Butterfly and The Singing Capon.

(R212) Actually when Bennett Cerf (Random House) approached Miss MacDonald about writing her autobiography, SHE suggested she call it "The Iron Butterfly". She was very amused by the nickname. Ultimately the autobiography didn't get published. The fraus obtained a copy of a latter version and made changes to suit their reinvention but the original which MacDonald worked on with two magazine writers (Delight Evans and Ruth Waterbury) was compelling at more than 800 pages. This was the manuscript Cerf read and deemed "...too much at odds with your on-screen image....."

r2309: Robert Taylor was also lent to Fox for THIS IS MY AFFAIR with Stanwyck (1937) so, its possible that Taylor and Power were fucking back and forth at both studios.

[quote]Privately Guilaroff estimated he had slept with more than 1,000 men between his arrival in Hollywood in 1933 and the 1980's.

So that's like--what? 20 weekends?

R209 - read the posts above, it was Nelson Eddy and Ty Power

OK but I'd rather imagine Robert Taylor and Ty Power.

R217 Tyrone Power may have been the handsomest actor in Hollywood history, but he lived a very hard lifestyle. His heavy drinking and chain smoking made him look closer to age 60 than age 44, which is what he was when he died in 1958 of a massive heart attack.

Tyrone Power age 44.

Power was at his twinkiest in the Sonja Henie movie Thin Ice.

(R217) Not that Ty and Bob didn't connect!!

For anyone who doesn't know, a capon is a castrated rooster. Castration causes roosters to get fat and they taste better.

So what was up with Gene Raymond, Jeanette MacDonald's husband?

I've seen him in a couple of films, where he looked as gay as a tinsel basket of Christmas bows.

(R222) Nelson, when he arrived at MGM in 1933, was very lean and athletic and good looking if you like that type. Couldn't act to save his life. He put on weight very easily and much of that was due to drinking. By 1940 critics were noting, "Eddy's figure is becoming almost as operatic as his singing" and when he voiced a whale for a Disney cartoon in the 40's, one critic noted that he'd finally found a role that suited his figure.

(R223) Other than the fraus who decided Raymond and not Eddy should be gay, I never heard a legitimate rumor or whisper. Raymond had affairs with a number of actresses including Ann Sothern, his co-star in several films. When MacDonald passed away in 1965 after nearly 28 years of marriage, he was often seen with Jane Wyman and eventually remarried, outliving the second wife, after a marriage of some 2 decades. He was a decorated pilot in WW II, eventually becoming a Colonel in the Air Force. Retired from the reserves after about 25 years. Highly respected in the business because of his involvement on boards and committees for just about any cause including the Motion Picture Home. Wyman once said to an L.A. paper, "For Gene Raymond, the only real value of being a name is what he can contribute to making things better for others....." He was five years older than MacDonald, who waited until she was almost 34 before getting married, after a one year engagement and dating for nearly two. One of the "fraus" reportedly ripped off an associate of Raymond by getting them to publish her book about MacDonald. The book was filled with errors and Raymond noted such. The "frau" set out to decimate his name and reputation at whatever cost, as only a scorned frau can do.

Thanks, r224. Nelson and Fred Astaire both made their film debuts in Dancing Lady with Joan Crawford. You'll remember Joan's "tap" number from it in the original "That's Entertainment!

Clomp, clomp, clomp.

Thanks, r225. That's very interesting. Nevertheless, I've heard for decades that Raymond was very bi. I certainly don't know for sure, though.

(R226) Joan said to Sydney Guilaroff (she was responsible for bringing him to MGM) after she attempted to seduce Eddy (a typical pattern for her when she met someone she wanted), "I guess I'm not man enough for him. Your turn Sydney...."

She told this story to Dore Freeman, a close friend and longtime MGM employee, while they were out enjoying a drink together in the 40's and Freeman mentioned Eddy.

(R227) Never heard that and find it difficult to believe insofar as MacDonald was not known as "The Iron Butterfly" for nothing. She refused to sign a 7 year contract with MGM like everyone else would do because she wanted her freedom. She'd have never married someone who was gay or bi, not because she had anything against that but because if she was going to finally get married in her 30's, it was going to be on her terms. She'd dumped Bob Ritchie who she'd dated for many years, after he cheated on her with a guy. While living in NYC and starring in stage musicals in the 20's, she had lead a normal life for a single woman in show business and enjoyed sex, something she discussed in that manuscript that Bennett Cerf deemed too much at odds with what the public perceived Jeanette MacDonald as being. At Metro she had a short fling with Jimmy Stewart while on location - prior to her engagement to Raymond but after they'd started dating. When she found out Stewart was also having sex with Guilaroff and with Cole Porter, who was composing the music for the film "Born to Dance" starring Eleanor Powell and Stewart, she was relieved it had only been a fling. Jeanette wasn't looking for a consort when she married in 1937. She'd had her fun and was ready for a stable marriage and from all reports, it was a very good marriage of nearly 28 years.

I am in awe of your knowledge, r229. Thanks.

It's worth noting that Jimmy Stewart probably didn't identify as gay. From all legit reports, he was very, very ambitious and anxious to make a name for himself. He was extraordinarily well-endowed, which appealed to Porter. Stewart also had brief affairs with Eleanor Powell and with Norma Shearer as well as Ginger Rogers. He wanted to be successful and I think that he felt he could use his "tool" to good advantage with people that might be able to help him climb the ladder to success. I am not aware of any reports of his being involved with men after he'd reached a certain level of success in the late 30's. This was not unusual behavior in the Hollywood of that time, when someone wanted to stand out among hundreds of overly eager actors and actresses.

[quote]Power was at his twinkiest in the Sonja Henie movie Thin Ice.

That little bitch better keep his hands off of my woman!

Everyone talks about how the accident fucked up Clift's face, but I've seen him before and after, and if you hadn't told me he'd been in an accident, I wouldn't have been able to tell a noticeable difference. The way people talk, he was disfigured beyond belief. I'm sure in the immediate aftermath, he was in pretty bad shape, but post-reconstruction, there wasn't a demonstrable difference to me.

I'd love to hear more about John Dall's personal life. There doesn't seem to be much out there, besides "Oh, he was gay."

I don't think I've ever heard rumors of Jimmy Stewart's bisexuality until very recently on DL. Has it been discussed in any reputable (or even salacious) bios or articles?? Is he mentioned in the Scotty Bowers book?

(R234) I've not read the Bowers book and other than remarks about his close friendship with Henry Fonda, not sure what else might have been out there. I don't think once he established himself in Hollywood, there were any dalliances, other than the heterosexual type. I'd heard suggestions with respect to Cole Porter since Cole rarely missed a cock he wanted to suck. Guilaroff told me about himself and Stewart. He said there was something about Jimmy that made everyone want him - the kind of seeming innocent young man out of his element in big Hollywood.

Why would Jimmy Stewart have to dally with Cole Porter?

[quote]r233 Everyone talks about how the accident fucked up Clift's face, but I've seen him before and after, and if you hadn't told me he'd been in an accident, I wouldn't have been able to tell a noticeable difference. The way people talk, he was disfigured beyond belief. I'm sure in the immediate aftermath, he was in pretty bad shape, but post-reconstruction, there wasn't a demonstrable difference to me.

Clift's biographer Patricia Bosworth wrote that the real difference between his physical appearance in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY and RAINTREE COUNTY (four years later) was caused by drink robbing his looks of their lustre. The hard living was starting to show on his face at age 37, and coarsen it. The original inner light was dimming.

Jeanette was also called the Iron Butterfly because while she seemed like a lovely, delicate lady, she was very stubborn about things like her contracts and also about doing her own (or most of ) her own horseback stunts; there are certain shots in the great film "Love Me Tonight" when she is horseback right next to the train that do not look they could have been faked. Btw, until Robert Redford, Gene Raymond was one of the only actors in Hollywood who was a blonde (assuming Eddy was mostly red-headed or his hair dyed various colors by Guilaroff). When Redford came to Hollywood, despite his look and talent, most people there thought that a blonde leading man rarely ever made it.

Come again?

(R239) I think they were referring to the period of the 1930's in particular.

Basil and Tyrone in the"Mark of Zorro". The sexual tension between these two is so thick not even that sword could cut through it.

Somehow, looking at this picture I can't help but imagine both of them still wearing the boots but nothing else.

(R236) Strickling file guy here. Cole Porter was a hugely successful composer on both Broadway and in Hollywood. He was also someone who, despite his marriage of convenience, had an insatiable appetite for men. This was prior to his tragic accident and virtually everyone in Hollywood knew his "secret". Porter was working at MGM and composing the score for a big-budget musical extravaganza entitled, "Born to Dance" starring the studio's latest star, Eleanor Powell as a follow-up to the very popular, "Broadway Melody of 1936". Two songs Porter composed for the score seemed destined to become hits ("Easy to Love" and "I've Got You Under My Skin"). "Easy to Love", in particular, was expected to be a chart topper in 1936. Stewart was cast as Powell's leading man, a huge risk since he didn't sing or dance. He worked studiously on the dance moves required for a short sequence and in the finished product, he is quite good. His character was also scheduled to introduce "Easy to Love", singing it to Powell during a Central Park sequence. The studio and producer Jack Cummings planned to dub Stewart because they felt his amateurish singing voice would not do justice and might in fact impede the success of a song they expected to become popular. Stewart wanted to do his own singing. It was not unusual in those days at MGM to have voices dubbed. Even singer Dennis Morgan had his voice dubbed by Allan Jones when he sang "A Pretty Girl" in "The Great Ziegfeld". The files indicate that Stewart spent a weekend as a house guest of Porter and the following Monday morning Porter contacted Producer Cummings and told him he'd worked all weekend with Stewart on his interpretation of the song and wanted him to do his own singing. Cummings agreed. Everyone who knew Porter knew why he'd gone to bat for Stewart. Stewart did in fact introduce the song, charmingly in his distinctive Stewart voice.

(R225) The MacDonald-Raymond wedding was one of the most star-studded in history. This photo includes members of the wedding party including Eddy, Allan Jones, Basil Rathbone, Johnny Mack Brown, Bridesmaids including Ginger Rogers and Fay Wray.

The blonde Gene Raymond theory is interesting but wouldn't James Cagney be considered a blonde leading man of the early 1930s? And what about Gary Cooper?? And Leslie Howard???

Maybe Gene was the first at MGM though he obviously never scaled the heights of Cagney, Cooper and Howard.

(R244) Raymond did most of his 1930's work at RKO, so perhaps he qualifies as RKO's blonde! He did work occasionally at other studios (MGM for a film with Joan Crawford and in 1941 co-starring with his wife), but the bulk of his work during that decade was at RKO including a half dozen co-starring vehicles with Ann Sothern as well as films with Lily Pons, Barbara Stanwyck, etc.

How far do the Strickling files go back? Is there stuff on silent stars like Ramon Novarro?

(R246) What I was able to afford were the years 1929 - 1951.

Interesting article about Strickling. He leaked bad shit about Nils Asther to the media when Asther didn't want to continue with his beard/sham marriage. Makes you realize what gay stars of that era had to go through.

(R248) Strickling was definitely not someone to anger. When he saw Nelson Eddy and a young contract player at MGM enjoying a much too friendly dinner together at a popular restaurant, Musso and Frank in Hollywood, he responded by contacting Louella Parsons. Parsons ran a not too veiled piece about Eddy's sexuality in her column.

Who was the contract player?

R240, this is what we got from R238: "Btw, until Robert Redford, Gene Raymond was one of the only actors in Hollywood who was a blonde". Even if we were limiting ourselves to 1930-1939, we'd still have Leslie Howard, Cagney, Richard Cromwell, Phillips Holmes, Buster Crabbe, Wayne Morris, Brian Aherne and Randolph Scott in various shades.

(R250) Leonard Penn, who was about 6 years younger than Eddy and was in an arranged marriage with the alcoholic actress, Gladys George. One of Penn's more notable roles around that time was in "The Firefly" co-starring with Jeanette MacDonald and Allan Jones.

Do I not remember some dish on a possibly BiSexual Johnny Mack Brown and his huge endowment from The Data Lounge's not too distant past?

Maybe explains his presence in that photo at r243.

Pic of Leonard and Gladys.

Here's Buster Crabbe looking all blonde in the 1930s, for the "Flash Gordon" serials. But he wasn't a natural blond, his hair was dyed so he'd look like the guy in the comic strips.

But yeah, during the 1930s most films were made in black and white, and it was commonly thought that dark hair and dark eyes photographed better on b/w film. Or at least where men were concerned, because blonde blue-eyed girls were still prized, but then blonde blue-eyed girls could wear enough mascara and eyebrow pencil to make light eyes photograph well on the b/w film stock, without looking like a tranny.

Search for Crabbe's all but naked scenes in the pre-code "Search for Beauty." They're probably still on youtube.

This is a shot from Search for Beauty. None of these guys is Buster, though. He's elsewhere in the gym taking a shower.

Leonard Penn was cute....too bad he was forced into a beard marriage

Hawt

Looks like we could use a separate thread for Jeanette, Nelson, Gene and their adventures together and apart.

Lovely Jeanette makes an appearance on What's My Line? in 1952. She seems quite sweet and sincere and down to earth.

Also worth watching to see Dorothy Kilgallen's hair decor.

[quote]r525 Leonard Penn, who was about 6 years younger than Eddy and was in an arranged marriage with the alcoholic actress, Gladys George

I SO love Gladys George! She was really a very bold actress. Very gutsy/vibrant, and grounded!

George went directly from Queer People on Broadway to Straight Is the Way as her first sound film in 1934. She pretty much drank herself to death and died at 54 in the advanced stages of cirrhosis of the liver, throat cancer and heart disease. Apparently she finally ended it all with an overdose of sleeping pill, though the official diagnosis was cerebral hemorrhage.

Here she is as a hooker with a heart of gold in her one Oscar-nominated performance.

I first saw Gladys George playing a trashy mom in THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES. I think she just has one scene, but I was like, "WOW! That woman has a PRESENCE!" She just cuts through all that gooey, Golden Age "dignified" approach to posing one's way through a part, and somehow seems like a real person....but theatrical. She has a very authoritative voice, too. She's just really magnetic to watch.

Then I saw her do small roles as tough broads in THE HARD WAY and MARIE ANTOINETTE, and each time she was dramatic, and also a little bit funny. She's simply a good actress. And she had charisma...you want to watch her.

Gladys George was also exceptional as Doris Day's mother in Warner Bros' 1951 musical, "Lullaby of Broadway" playing a part that made a lasting impression in an otherwise forgettable film.

What do the files say about Van Johnson, Golden Age Queen?

There must be a file 9" thick on Van Johnson.

Oh, some of those musical numbers, especially Doris dancing with Gene Nelson (FOLLIES!!!!!), including the title number of "Lullabye of Broadway" are pretty terrific, too, in addition to the very fine Ms. Gladys George.

Van Johnson was kind of cute with a decent, if freckled body, with thighs like tree trunks. But his career was short lived when the fifties came and people preferred actors with a more adult and manly visage. Van was an aging teenybopper.

Van's career wasn't short-lived, he played leading man roles into the late 50s

What was the dirt on Robert Taylor?

He made a pass at me in summer stock. I wish I'd've taken it. (Van Johnson).

r272, how old was he at the time?

Btw - to the Howard Strickling guy: How do you feel about Scotty Bowers? Does anything from the Strickling files confirm his claims?

1970 something

What do the Strickling files say about Clark Gable's drunk driving accidents?

WOW, r274! Van Johnson made a pass at me when I was an apprentice in summer stock in 1970, too! He was appearing in Boeing, Boeing. But he was very sweet and harmless. And he wore red socks every day.

That's pretty old, R274, almost two thousand years.

Did Van Johnson proposition the entire datalounge? LOL.

Van Johnson allegedly was very indiscreet and sloppy with his affairs and LB Mayer didn’t like it one bit. So he told him marriage or else no more career. So Van supposedly said he’d marry but only Keenan Wynn’s wife Evie but obviously she was already married. Was it an attempt to call LB’s bluff? Who knows? But it got arranged pretty quickly and Keenan and Evie filed for divorce. I bet Keenan got paid. Didn’t one of Keenan and Evie’s sons write a book about it?

r279, one of his sons did write a book but it wasn't exclusively about Evie and Van's relationship (he did confirm the rumors about Johnson, though)

Keenan and Van were boyfriends. The relationship among the three of them had been something of a ménage à trois. After the divorce and new marriage Keenan lived next door to Van and Evie and the relationship continued as before. That's why Van had insisted on Evie.

Is there anything in the Strickling files about lesbians, or is it just gay men?

(R282) Garbo, Marjorie Main, Judy's occasional trysts with women, Dietrich when she came to the lot to do "Kismet" - she had already spent time visiting the lot and Ilona Massey. MGM had hoped Massey would be their own Dietrich but the public never warmed to her. There are quite a few others.

I heard rumors about that Hepburn woman....

(R284) Katharine Hepburn and L.B. Mayer had a great relationship and she would bristle when others would demean him. They had a genuine affection for one another and much of that was founded on her complete honesty with him. When they met to talk about her coming to Metro she told him, in no uncertain terms, that her private life was hers to life as she wished. She promised to never do anything to harm the Metro reputation or Mr. Mayer but she would conduct her personal life with discretion and "....do as I damn well please......." She did with a succession of women and an occasional man. She kept her word and although there were whispers about her and Spencer, something she fanned for effect, there was never a real scandal around Hepburn and that's one of the reasons she rarely talked to the press during her Metro days or was seen doing a lot of industry-related things as compared to other stars in her position. She never took to Dietrich after their fling but was fond of Garbo and they remained acquaintances when both lived in NYC. Hedy would sleep with just about anything with a pulse and Hepburn was one of many. Hedy was a real frustration to the MGM folks because she didn't care whether she was caught doing something and Mayer was often beside himself.

[quote]r279 Van Johnson allegedly was very indiscreet and sloppy with his affairs and LB Mayer didn’t like it one bit.

Mr. Mayer was having NONE of it!

(R286) Van and Tom Drake were caught in Van's dressing room.

Ed Wynn's famous alleged comment on his son Keenan's love life: "I can't keep them straight. Evie loves Keenan. Keenan loves Evie. Van loves Evie. Evie loves Van. Van loves Keenan. Keenan loves Van."

What r287? Really?

Did Van sleep with any other guys at MGM?

I don't know but Peter Lawford was on the lot at that time.

(R291) Peter did have sex with Sydney Guilaroff.

Everybody had sex with Sydney.

(R293) If indeed he had sex with approximately 1,000 men in a fifty year period, you are probably right in your assessment.

When I met Sydney in 1980, I was in my twenties and he was in his early 70's. Normally I'd have never been attracted to someone almost fifty years older than myself. However, he was so distinguished, well-spoken, charming and had a force of personality that was also almost childlike. It was as though he couldn't believe his good fortune in having known, befriended and been a part of so many stars and an industry when it was really the "Dream Factory". I slept with him and he was one of those lovers who is far more concerned about your pleasure than his own. I could see why the walls of his home were covered with pictures from male and female celebrities thanking him for sharing his gifts and talent. Within five minutes of talking with him, you felt as though you'd been friends for many years. I can well understand why a lot of men succumbed to his charm over the years. He knew Scotty Bowers although at that time I assumed he was speaking of another friend since Bowers name was not a household word. During the nearly 18 years in which we were friends, Sydney spoke, without artifice or ego about his friends and his lovers.

Ray Milan but I thought he was straight.

Ray Milan?! Do you mean Ray Milland?

Wrong, 155.

Scotty Bowers is not "an entirely different thread" or "an entirely different person."

He was fucking them all and even arranging less affairs for people like Katherine Hepburn!

The point is, we've already had this conversation numerous times. You can bump.

r298, no, you are wrong. There is some overlap in the stars being discussed but this isn't about Bowers.

What's the dirt on Robert Taylor?

Come back, Strickling guy!

R300 Taylor was a Major Mama's boy.

But he married a tough Brooklyn broad, Barbara Stanwyck.

Taylor allegedly had a very tiny penis.

^^ I'm ashamed this came to my mind about him, too.

There's some strange story about him showing it to a male costar, because he was concerned his wife's opinion was true.

(Though, in hindsight, maybe that was all A RUSE?)

What do the Strickling files say about Billy Haines and Ramon Novarro?

(R306) Strickling file guy here...... files are still with the lawyers but from what I recall about Novarro, he was very discrete and actually had the respect of Mayer because of his discretion. However, as was often the case, the NY Office was homophobic, before the term was used. It was Mayer's willingness to overlook homosex as long as it didn't embarrass the studio, that contributed toward years of battles with Nick Schenck and Mayer's departure from the studio. Schenck hated gays and would have preferred MGM have no homosexuals working at the studio in any capacity. While Mayer didn't want it thrown in his face, he respected the many gay men and women who were employed by the studio for their talents.

Strickling File Guy, thank you for sharing all this fascinating information! Really enjoying your stories!

(R308) Thanks. I think Mayer often gets a bad rap. He was nowhere near as bad as Zanuck, Cohn, Warner and some of the other moguls. He was tough, and wanted to protect his studio from scandal. He could also be cruel, but overall, he accepted a lot of foibles and quirks and usually looked at someone for their talent before he judged them by their sex life. However, he rarely forgave someone who did not respect the reputation and image that MGM represented. I hope that by showing the files in their entirety and not picking and choosing paragraphs or sections, that an historical purpose will also be served for future film lovers/scholars to reference. How the studio was sometimes able to protect their artists from themselves at times, is really very impressive. People like Luise Rainer tried to make it seem as though her star dimmed because she wouldn't "put out" for Mayer or someone else. In reality, despite all the benefits provided her by a studio contract, she drank too much in public and then ran her mouth about virtually every actress on the lot that she was jealous of, slept with anyone with a pulse - male or female - and was frequently unprepared on the set. She was not the martyr she portrayed herself as,

One of the actors from that silly TV series, VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, recently deceased, was a gay. The blonde one that they called Chip. I was a a friends home a few years ago goofing off online when we came across a webpage devoted to the series. My buddy recognized him from a bar in West Hollywood in the seventies.

(R310) Robert Dowdell. I recall seeing him in several bars in West Hollywood in the early 80's.

I met him at Rage in West Hollywood in 1981. He was with a younger guy but ditched him and took me home. I didn't recognize him until I saw some pics at his place, from some of his career highlights. He was late 40's I think but still looked very good - in shape and hung! Told me he'd been married once but they'd divorced a few years earlier. He said he played around a lot while married including with somebody from the cast of "Voyage...." He didn't say who. It was a very fun night.

^^^^ I hope it was the actor who played Kowalski-he gave me wood.

A young Dowdell...

The “versatile” actor...

What are some of the other same sex hookups mentioned in the Strickling files?

(R316) June Allyson and Claudette Colbert, when Colbert was on the lot playing Allyson's mother. Vincente Minnelli and Robert Walker. Irene Lentz and Judy Garland during the making of "The Harvey Girls" for which Irene had done the costumes. This was more out of loneliness and dissatisfaction with where their personal lives were at the time.

Wow, never heard any gay/bi gossip about Allyson or Walker.

Dowdell was kind of plain looking. But blonde, so folks gave him a pass I guess.

Wasn’t Colbert part of the notorious “sewing circle” headed by Marlene Dietrich? Just dykes eating lunch, amongst other things.

Did Minnelli and Walker hook up when they were making The Clock? Damn, how did Judy feel about her hubby hooking up with her leading men....

Robert Dowdell looked a lot like one of my favorite actors, Oskar Werner. He always stirred my loins.

I don’t see any resemblance r322. Where?

To the Strickling files guy - which MGM stars had arrests that were hushed up?

(R324) Can't give you 100% accurate until the files are back from the lawyers. However, for certain - Clark Gable, Robert Taylor, Nelson Eddy (multiple times, in fact more than any other male actor on the lot in the 30's), Spencer Tracy, John Barrymore, Mickey Rooney, Van Johnson, Robert Walker, Tom Drake, Luise Rainer, Hedy Lamarr, and a number of others that I don't want to list without making sure I am correct from the files.

What did Hedy Lamarr and Luise Rainer get arrested for?

solicitation and assaulting a police officer.

[quote]Wow, never heard any gay/bi gossip about Allyson or Walker.

i heard about Walker 40 years ago when I was a young gayling. Hadn't heard anything over the years about Allyson but at this point nothing causes me to lift what's left of my eyebrows.

R326, I don't know any specifics but I've heard Rainer was a mess, which accounted for her leaving Hollywood despite her early massive initial success, As for Hedy, she was famously arrested for shoplifting.

Regarding Clark Gable's arrest - is it true he was involved in a hit-and-run?

[quote]r328 Hadn't heard anything over the years about Allyson but at this point nothing causes me to lift what's left of my eyebrows.

Poor June Allyson was a nympho and drunk. In the early 1980s she was asked if a bio-pic was made of her life, who would she like to play her. Her response: Sissy Spacek.

With all those arrests, Nelson Eddy should have been a rapper....

Errol Flynn

In like Flynn!

Behind the facade of Van Johnson

"However, for certain - Clark Gable, Robert Taylor, Nelson Eddy (multiple times, in fact more than any other male actor on the lot in the 30's), Spencer Tracy, John Barrymore, Mickey Rooney, Van Johnson, Robert Walker, Tom Drake, Luise Rainer, Hedy Lamarr, and a number of others that I don't want to list without making sure I am correct from the files."

What did Mickey and Robert Walker do? I assume the Tracy and Barrymore arrests were along the "drunk and disorderly" lines

That's a superficial account of the relationship among Van and Keenan and Evie, r335, but thanks for posting it. It shows how the mainstream press reported the relationship among Van, Keenan and Evie.

Oh, please, r336, Robert Walker was a big ol' homo and everyone knew it. That's why Hitchcock cast him in Strangers on a Train. You were supposed to get that at least one of the two guys was queer.

I thought Farley Granger was the gay one in Strangers on a Train

Both! All so coded. The perverted Hitchcock was the expert at keeping everything mainstream.

Interesting about Luise Rainer!

Her brief but starry time at MGM is still really such an enigma.

Was Van busted for cruising or for something else?

Is there bisexual stuff in the files about Spencer Tracy? I would think if he really were active in that way, there would have been more talk over the decades.

I only heard vaguen rumors about him after Hepburn's death...maybe because she would have gone full kamikazi on anyone who DARED to speak so about him in her lifetime.

I like the image of the two of them hitting a gay bar together in Tijuana, or somewhere...in dark glasses.

Well, supposedly Spencer Tracy had a thing for Van Johnson and refused to work with a replacement actor when Van was sidelined by his car accident on A Thing Called Joe (was that the name of the picture?).

A Guy Named Joe, R343. Irene Dunne also said she wouldn't work until Van returned to the film.

What else do the files say about Van?

So these two guys were humping?

Any info in the Strickling files about: Lena Horne, Sinatra and Gardner, Davies and Hearst, Olivier and Leigh, John Gilbert, Robert Young, Lana Turner, Lucy, Lupe Velez, Cary Grant, Tallulah?

Is there any stuff in the Strickling files about REALLY serious crimes, like murder, rape, child molestation?

Am I in those damned files?

Helen, I'm sure there's plenty of references to your twelve drunk and disorderly arrests!

Almost 400 replies and no mention yet of Tab Hunter, Tony Perkins, Anton Walbrook, Alfred Lunt, Hayden Rorke, Johnny Arthur or Kerwin Mathews?

That's because we already know about Tab and Tony.

It's what I imagined Randolph and Mortimer Duke were like at home, r138.

My father liked to tell the story of how June Allyson tried to pick him up at a bar in Manhattan shortly after he came home from the war. He lied about his age and enlisted at seventeen so he couldn't have been more than 22 at the time. He said he thought about taking her up on the offer but she was clearly drunk and he didn't want to take advantage of her. My dad was a handsome guy. A dead ringer for Tyrone Power. I wonder if that's why she hit on him.

Strickling file guy: any info on Lana Turner and the Johnny Stompanato murder? Supposedly the studio had been in Lana’s house hours before the police were called. Some have suggested that Lana stabbed Stompanato in a drunken rage but her daughter Cheryl Crane took the rap since no one would convict her of murder. Lesbian Crane stands by the account today profiling it in her autobiography “Detour”.

I think the Strickling guy said his files only go up to 1951, so they wouldn't cover the Stompanato case.

I wonder if other studios had their own "Stricklings"?

Re: 357

all of the major studios in those days had fixers

Who is (was?) Johnny Arthur. r351?

Robert Walker PLAYED gay in Strangers On a Train but that does not mean he WAS gay. He had a nervous breakdown when Jennifer Jones left him for David Selznick, that much is documented. He was devastated when his wife left him. And he was a major drunk during the filming of The Clock, too. Judy and a friend used to troll the bars in L.A. at night to try to find him and get him home and sobered up so he would be at the studio in the mornings for filming. So sad. He died tragically young from a reaction to a medication. I think he was quite sexy and adorable. I wish there were more stories about his gay side or that he was gay or whatever. Never heard a peep about him in that way before other than his role in Strangers On a Train.

Not certain this is Op's idea of classic Hollywood since he didn't do Silents but this is a character actor whose performances I always enjoyed. Anton Diffring escaped Germany not too long before WW2 when they started rounding up homosexuals and did his first film for the Brits as a U-Boat officer in a 1940 film. Perfect cold Prussian officer. Died of Aids in his 70s.

[quote]r355 Strickling file guy: any info on Lana Turner and the Johnny Stompanato murder? Supposedly the studio had been in Lana’s house hours before the police were called.

I don't think Turner was under contract to MGM any longer at that time (?)

R360 A few months ago I had seen The Clock with Robert Walker & Judy Garland for the first time. Yes Robert Walker did seem somewhat out of it or intoxicated. I was surprised I didn't observe any NYC locations or landmarks in the film, only to later learn the whole thing was shot in a MGM lot in Culver City.

Other gay actors of old Hollywood: Billy DeWolfe, James Mitchell, George Tobias, Maurice Evans, Dick Sargent, Eric Blore, Johnny Ray

Supposedly, LB Mayer fumed that Judy was being wasted on a non-musical film when she was shooting The Clock. I wonder if they gave her a few more dramatic roles during her time at MGM, she wouldn't have been a little healthier?

Re:365

Judy originally pitched A Star Is Born to Arthur Freed and LB Mayer as a non musical. LB vetoed the idea saying that Judy would tarnish her girl next door screen persona by playing the wife of a drunk. Judy then pulled him aside and said "LB, my father was a drunk!" The idea was shelved

This was right before she made Meet Me in St. Louis btw

(R362) You're right. Lana's contract with MGM was long over and she was free-lancing at that time.

Anton Diffring (mentioned upthread) was in The Day the Clown Cried! LOL!

I love threads like these - they always introduce me to so many different actors

r359, this is Johnny Arthur

What about Lon Chaney? Seriously. First wife tried to commit suicide. He married a second time to an overweight, rather homely woman seemingly in order to get custody of his son. Had no known relationships with other women between wives, and didn't seem to associate with women on any level. Preferred to hang out with the crew on his films, and was critical of actors who had notorious affairs (like why would he care so much?) Had a long-time chauffeur who was always around, even going on vacation with Chaney and his wife (they had a cabin in the mountains and the chauffeur would go along). It wasn't like they couldn't drive! After Chaney died, the chauffeur wanted to marry the wife, but she rejected him and he ended his days as something of a hustler. Odd.

Weren't there rumors about William S. Hart?

More Britain than Hollywood, but Peter Arne was a talented character actor who was murdered by a trick in the 80s

Fiii

Any gossip on Hurd Hatfield, George Chakiris, or Sal Mineo?

Classic Hollywood?

When Lana Turner’s lover died, the first person she called was Jerry Geisler, a famous attorney.

John Derek was allegedly closeted and poz

John Derek was hardly gay, he had a definite type.

John Derek was bi

And so is Linda Evans.

Linda Evans can't be queer, she dated Richard Chamberlain!

She must be gay, she kissed Rock Hudson.

Didn't Gene Raymond get arrested in thé '30s for cruising in an LA park?

(R383) NOPE!! Only in the minds of the Fraus that are determined to turn Nelson Eddy from gay to straight. Eddy was arrested numerous times. in the 30's and in the 40's. There are no legit records, anywhere, to indicate Raymond being arrested.

The rumor was that Judy Garland's father liked to sit in the back row of the movie theater he managed and diddle and fiddle with very young boy customers.

Mama and Papa Gumm with the other Gumm sisters.

(R383) Strickling files guy here...…….Nelson Eddy was arrested more times during the period of 1935 - 1940 than any other player under contract at MGM during that time. There's a memo regarding Eddy's co-star in a film called "Let Freedom Ring" (1939). Virginia Bruce apparently told director Conway that she didn't want to kiss Eddy in the film because, ".....I don't know where his lips have been...…" She was threatened with suspension and did change her mind but she and Eddy were barely civil during the film's shooting schedule. When the files are returned next month, I'll share some of these stories and copies.

Strickling guy, we love you!!!

Please return when you're ready.

My late friend who was a big Jeanette/Eddy fan and gay, was absolutely livid when Jerry Herman had a song in "A Day in Hollywood/A Night in the Ukraine" called "Nelson", sung by a rather sarcastic Jeanette, that basically said that Eddy was gay. There have also been rumors that they loved one another and had affairs all through and after their film partnership. So maybe Eddy was very bi?

(R387) Thank you (blush) Without all the files in front of me, I don't want to make a misstatement until they're back and I can provide accurate data and info. I guess the Nelson Eddy stood out for me and I retained some of it, not because I enjoyed his work (I really didn't) but because the things that went on with him were so at odds with the stuffy rather dull impression I had of him from whatever I'd read or seen. Clearly he wanted homosex and bucked the studio in order to get what he craved. It's a far more interesting story that the myth conjured up by the sadly pathetic fraus who tried to create a relationship between him and co-star MacDonald.

(R388) Jerry Herman is a very bright and smart person and has confided to many over the years the reality of Mr. Eddy. He was friends with Bob Wright and Chet Forrest who worked on a number of films with Eddy. Apparently they also had threesomes and foursomes with Eddy over the years. Some file entries clearly indicated Miss MacDonald's feelings toward Eddy - personally - and they were far from loving.

Jerry Herman WAS NOT involved in the sexual activities with Eddy. I am referencing that Wright and Forrest had sex with Eddy and often a third, including Leonard Penn, William Tannen and one time a very drunk Don Ameche.

What's this about Don Ameche?!!

What's this about Don Ameche?!!

What about John Payne??

Don Ameche didn't even want to say the word "fuck" in "Trading Places" in more than one take. He was very cute though -- don't know too much about her personal life. Apparently Stritch didn't get on with him in "Goldilocks", even considering that he was a late replacement prior to its opening and had to learn the show pretty quickly. He seemed perfectly charming.

Re:384

Thank you for clearing that rumor up, i had my suspicions since no police files have surfaced. For a writer to make up that arrest is straight up nuts

Strickling files guy, any info in the papers about anyone associated with the Freed Unit (i.e. Judy, Vincente Minnelli, Kay Thompson, Roger Edens, Chuck Walters, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Frank Sinatra, Lena Horne, Cyd Charisse, etc)

The Eddy/MacDonald fanfraus sound worse than the "larries"

Sounds like Nelson Eddy's life was way more interesting than his movies. Same goes for Van Johnson!

Don Ameche was married for 54 years with six children, but I read somewhere that his wife was an invalid or had mental health issues, so I find it easy to believe that he may have had something on the side.

John Payne was married twice with three children and was apparently quite straight, though because of his athletic build and good looks he's become a gay icon.

Any Laurence Harvey gossip?

Hunky John Payne was the rare actor of the pre-Henry Willson years who was photographed often shirtless or in swim suits. And with good reason.

John Payne was also very talented and had a fine singing voice in his Fox musicals. Plus he's a perennial in the classic "Miracle on 34th Street" as Fred Gailey. Yes, he wasl also a hunk.

The Strickling Files Guy is the most exciting thing to happen on the DL for YEARS!!! And this is the best thread we've had in a very long time. I hope it runs for a long time.

John Payne in Kid Nightingale, 1939. Photograph by George Hurrell.

Strickling guy - you're the bomb!!! Can't wait til you publish - some of the classic movie fanfraus are going to be freaking out. There used to be these twats on the TCM boards if you suggested that someone like Garbo or Hepburn might not have been totally straight.

Payne was one of the few who didn't have to be dubbed in those Fox musicals. His mother was an opera singer who gave him voice lessons as he grew up. He went to college at Columbia but during that time he also took more vocal lessons at Julliard. He had a lovely light baritone voice and although he wouldn't have had a classical career, he could do far more than just carry a tune.

John Payne in speedo with surfboard. One of the few stars of the 1940s-1950s whose physique is up to today’s standards.

Not really.

Actually, r408, his physique is sexier.

Surprise there's been no mention yet of Erik Rhodes (best known for his roles in The Gay Divorcee and Top Hat), who was the longtime partner of Baron Nicolas de Gunzberg

What does everyone think of Robert Cummings?

I had such a crush on him as a kid watching reruns of his sitcom Love That Bob! He played an unrepentant Hollywood cheesecake photographer madly chasing after beautiful models in every episode. I always assumed he was straight. He was married a couple of times and had many kids.

But after he died, rumors implied that he was bisexual, if not downright gay. What's the story??

(R411) I thought the same things when I watched his reruns. Never heard any rumors however, but even at 6 or 7, I knew I wanted him to be my special friend.

To me the most interesting this about Robert Cummings is he was godson of Orville Wright. Wright himself taught Cummings how to fly while the boy was still in high school. When the government started issuing licenses to flight instructors, Cummings was issued Flight Instructor Certificate #1, making him the first official flight instructor in the US.

Being taught by Orville has to be the ultimate pilot boast.

I remember an old interview with Joan Collins in which she said one of the reasons she went to Hollywood was to meet John Payne. Hope she got him.

Robert Cummings was a fine comedic actor who also starred in Hitchcock's "Saboteur" as well as opposite DL fave Deanna Durbin in two of her films. He's also in that Lucy-Desi Comedy Hour where he's trying to take a bath in Japan and Lucy inadvertently spies on him in the tub.

And if IIRC Lucy plunges her hand down into Bob Cummings' bathwater to retrieve her lost pearls, thereby unintentionally (or not) groping Bob.

As much as I love Lucy. I'd have much rather seen her groping Payne than that silly Cummings guy.

And I'm assuming that Bob Cummings was very gay friendly with Nancy Kulp and Ann B Davis being regulars on his show. Another frequent guest star was the sensational Kathleen Freeman who presented as the butchest butch who ever butched on the show and turned out to be never married and was survived by her long time partner, Helen Ramsey, when she died at 82.

I remember Love That Bob and the renamed series from its original run and not syndication.

Cummings had an enormously pretty blond son named Tony who was on Another World for a year or so around 1980. Pretty sure he enjoyed the homosex.

Simon Callow hints about Orson Welles's bisexuality in the first volume of his Welles bios, saying that he and actor Jack Carter (the very light skinned black actor who starred in the Voodoo Macbeth), cruised around Harlem's nightspots (no doubt looking for rentboys) Welles was also rumored to be kept by both Guthrie McClintock and Thornton Wilder

I think there's something in one of Callow's biographies about Welles teasing John Houseman (I think) where he got out of the bath after Houseman arrived at his hotel room and just paraded around with his cock out.

Orson Welles? No way

Well, he was given his break and then mentored by (gay as a goose) Michael MacLammoir. And they remained very close friends for life. He played Iago alongside Welles in the latter's great adaptation of OTHELLO. And THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI is very campy. And he was a life-long liberal. And one of his longest friends/collaborators was uber-dyke Agnes Moorhead. And he had that great lesbian scene in TOUCH OF EVIL. Und his last film, the still unreleased THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND was about a gay director and a bisexual movie star, based on James Dean...

"The Other Side of the Wind" is coming out soon. There are articles about it just this week on-line, plus another documentary on the making of it.

I'm really forward to eventually (hopefully) seeing THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WIND, but I don't have much faith that it will be anything close to Welles's intended movie. It's been edited by someone else and Welles's editing style by the 70s was so idiosyncratic and unconventional (still) that it seems like an impossible task. Can you imagine if F FOR FAKE only existed in an unedited form and it fell to someone else to finish it?

Is there any casting couch gossip in the Strickling files?

Any word on Clark Gable -- other than his scorching flamethrower breath -- as a flaming homo from time to time to bang male ass?

Like many young Hollywood actors at the time, Gable was allegedly gay for pay as a struggling young Hollywood actor in the late 1920s/very early '30s. i posted the formerly famous story about him, William Haines, Haines' BFF George Cukor, the perfumed bar of soap of Haines sent to Gable the afternoon before their appointment and Gable's resulting discomfort with Cukor that was partially, but only partially, responsible for Cukor's dismissal from GWTW. (That had much more to do with the fact that after shooting actually began, it quickly went behind schedule and overbudget.) But Gable's discomfort with Cukor because of Cukor's close friendship with Haines was indeed a factor.

I won't repost the story, which involved Gable's famously smelly smegma and foreskin (allegedly even worse than his breath).

I meant to add that I wouldn't repost the Clark Gable story because I was so shot down the time or two I did post it, but I hit post too soon. But it's alleged to be true and you can get the gist of it from what I did post.

R429 Carole Lombard make some joke about him being the queen of Hollywood, referring to his dick size. While looking for a source for the quote I found this long article about Strickling, Gable and Lombard, very detailed.

Gable's close personal friendship with Victor Fleming, an MGM house director who had directed many of Gable's previous MGM hits, was no accident when Fleming was assigned to take over GWTW from Cukor. Fleming had to be pulled off of The Wizard of Oz to take over GWTW, resulting in the uncredited filming of the final Oz scenes, mainly the black and white/sepia Kansas sequences, including Over the Rainbow, by famed director King Vidor. Some people say that Fleming's desire to have Over the Rainbow cut after test screenings was because he hadn't filmed it.

1939 was a very good year for Victor Fleming. He got the not totally deserved screen credit for directing both Gone With the Wind and The Wizard of Oz.

Cukor did nearly two and half years of pre-production on GWTW and over 20% percent of the footage in the released film was his. Selznick told Fleming he'd like to give Cukor some sort of acknowledgment in the credits, like a special thanks or such, and Fleming told him no.

And Fleming also rejected a bit of the back end profits thinking Gone With The Wind would be a huge flop.

Gable too IIRC.

Gable's first two wives speak volumes about his ambition. Two well off dowdy women old enough to be his mother but useful to have in order to get ahead as an actor who stated out in life as blue collar trash.

Yet, all the other women in his life after them, were attractive, fit, and young .

Fleming also suffered a "nervous breakdown" while shooting GWTW and missed many weeks of filming. Sam Wood took over and shot as much of the film as had Cukor, including the lumbermill scene where India Wilkes and some old biddy catch Scarlet embracing Ashley. When Fleming came back, Wood continued shooting and Vivien Leigh ended up sometimes working 18 hour days alternating between the directors. Fleming also denied Wood any credit for his contributions.

I’ve never understood Fleming and Gable assuming or believing that Gone With The Wind was going to be a flop I mean I understand of the expectations for it were incredibly if not impossibly high but couldn’t they see what they were making?

Hey, R436, you know the old quote about Sam Wood?

Groucho Marx said of him "You can't make a man out of clay, or a director out of Wood.".

No one thought that people weren't going to see GWTW, but there was eventually such a huge amount of money put into its production that many thought it would never earn back its cost.

Very good, r438,

OP

Several years ago Diamond Select Toys did a series of Universal Monsters Minimates.

Minimates are articulated block type figures slightly larger than Lego figures that focus mostly on non children’s properties

There was supposed to be a set based on “The Mummy” but it was canceled. A Toys R Us exclusive two pack was released though and it contained figures of the Princess Anck-Es-En-Amon & Frank Whemple. Frank Whemple was of course played by David Manners so there are actually tiny David Manners figures out there in the world.

Silly maybe but odd enough that I thought you might get a kick out of this.

In the late 1930s.Selznick finally gained enough financial independence to found his own studio and no longer had to depend on a major studio like MGM or RKO before that to produce, ie, control his films. He became his own auteur and though he usually hired brilliant directors -- Cukor and Von Sterberg for example -- he ultimately had total control and it didn't matter who he hired to tell the photographer how to frame their shots. He was always the auteur of the films he produced, not his hired director.

At any rate, many people directed GWTW -- Cukor, Fleming, Sam Wood, designer William Cameron Menzies, even Yakima Canutt, who directed the scenes with any stunt work -- but in the end it was all Selznick's vision and film.

William Cameron Menzies drew the film's elaborate storyboard before filming commenced and whoever Selznick had as a director or photographer was required to stick closely to it. And there are indeed a few shots helmed by Cameron Menzies himself.

Fascinating article about Gable, Lombard and Loretta Young! Thanks for posting, r431.

I assume that Gable and Fleming were offered far less salary in exchange for a back end deal and perhaps they thought the immediate gratification of a huge salary was more appealing than the unreliability of shared profits (though admittedly now that seems incredibly foolish).

I also wonder if the shenanigans of LB Mayer and other studio chiefs would be included in the Strickling files. Probably not as those were the bosses to whom Strickling had created the files?

(R444) Actually the "shenanigans" of the studio brass at MGM are reported. Mayer, however, wasn't nearly in the league with Harry Cohn, Daryl Zanuck and others. For the most part, he treated his female stars with great deference and respect. The files indicate he did have flings with Ginny Simms and Ann Miller, despite any of their protestations of nothing happening. However, his relationships with other "ladies on the lot" were strictly platonic. The files do outlines his battles with the "East Coast Faction" of the studio but also incredible acts of kindness, not reported, and his genuine love for the studio. However, if someone betrayed him or their behavior threatened to damage the studio. IN those instances, "Hell hath no fury...….."

Great story about Gable and Lombard. I loved it. But it’s disappointing to see that Clark mistreated Carole with his womanizing and verbal abuse.

(R446) Clark did not know the meaning of the phrase "being faithful" and I would imagine Carole realized that he wasn't about to change his pattern once he was married to her. She was very much a realist.

r441, thanks for the link! I always think about David Manners around Halloween, since he was in both The Mummy and Dracula.

You are most welcome OP

I bought two of that pack and use the second Whemple as my Harker with the Dracula set.

Would you ever think there would be tiny David Manners and Helen Chandlers out in the world?

I must warn you however that Minimates can be addictive. They make a lot of non mainstream characters most companies wouldn’t touch.

They even did a “Desperately Seeking Susan” set and the Madonna figure has a tiny cigarette molded to her hand.

I guess David Manners was partying with Cary and Randy:

DM set sail from New York on the French ocean liner Paris, bound for Southampton on November 23, 1933, to make his first British picture Luck of A Sailor. Also on board the ship were actors Cary Grant and Randolph Scott, sharing a lavish first-class suite that was furnished by Paramount Pictures. Such luxury can be found in the newest Viking Yachts for sale today. Studios have been known to spare no expense for top talent including yachts and private jets. The studio had installed a grand piano for Grant's use, and Manners later recalled spending much of the voyage harmonizing with Grant and Scott; the three film stars formed an enthusiastic albeit unpolished baritone trio. Upon his arrival in London, DM was enthusiastically greeted by the British press, who hailed him as "Hollywood's handsomest man."

Any more info in the Strickling files about a certain Miss Garland?

I would love to have been around Hollywood in the Pre-Code era. Lots of hot gay sex with beautiful and talented men in a town swimming in money and creating a whole new artform from scratch. How exciting it must have been!!!

Gable's first wife, Josephine Dillon, was not some rich old lady. She was an acting coach struggling to make ends meet when she hooked up with Gable at the beginning of his journey to stardom. She clothed him and fed him and put a roof over his head using her own money. When he finally broke out from being a movie extra, he left her far behind and moved on with a real rich old lady, Ria Langham, who could support him even more grandly than wife #1 could.

Ex-wife #1 continued to live hand to mouth for most of the rest of her life as Clark did his best to cut her existence out of his past. He used people and discarded them once they were of no use to him. Not a nice man. His father didn't think much of the man that Clark became later on.

"King of Hollywood? If his peepee were an inch shorter, he'd be the Queen of Hollywood!" Fucking love it.

(I'll bet she used the word "cock" , but the quote was cleaned up when retold. Carole was known to have the filthiest mouth among the top female stars at that time. She could put sailors to shame.)

Gable must have had something going for him if he regularly fucked Lombard, Crawford, Turner and Loretta Young. And Harlow and Shearer, most likely. It's not like they couldn't have feasted on others.

Though he may seem rather a generic he-man now, Gable was actually the prototype of the rugged, blue collar leading man, lacking in Hollywood until he came along.

Cultured and urbane gents like William Haines, William Powell and Robert Montgomery (and poor John Gilbert) were the more common type in early talkies.

[quote]Fleming also suffered a "nervous breakdown"

Sounds more like Victor "Flaming."

Tom Mix and Tony the Wonder Horse - more than just co-stars?

Shut up, r457.

Wilbur!

"Gable must have had something going for him if he regularly fucked Lombard, Crawford, Turner and Loretta Young. And Harlow and Shearer, most likely."

What he had going for him was looks, money, and fame

Besides Gable, what other guys used the casting couch?

Allegedly, Rock was the object of some movie executive's obsession and would pay regular visits to the man's orifice for servicing. Rock would just stand there as the executive would go down on all fours and crawl over to Rock's crotch and unzip and gobble it all down. Reminds me of the tale of Cole Porter having to crawl after Jack Cassidy in order to indulge on Cassidy's legendary meat. Cassidy would cock tease Cole by moving away from his mouth as soon as Cole got within sucking distance.

The hunky Aldo Ray also shared a story of another movie exec. who regularly sent for Aldo for some private meetings in his orifice. Aldo said he knew what was expected of him and would stand there with his pants and undershorts down around his knees as the VIP sucked him to completion and waved him out of the office as he swallowed.

According to many accounts, Gary Cooper also played the casting couch game, both male and female. We don't really realize today what a huge star he was at the time. And since he was never under contract to MGM, he's probably not in the Strickland files.

I wonder if there's anything in the Strickland files about anyone in the Arthur Freed unit. The behind the scenes guys. The so-called "Freed's Fairies," etc.

I read somewhere that Aldo Ray said it was George Cukor who serviced him in exchange for his casting in The Marrying Kind. That was a Columbia Pictures film.

R462, that "movie exec" was allegedly Cukor, who gave Ray his two initial Hollywood starring roles. Later, Ray said that Cukor taught him in those two films everything he needed to know about acting in films. Ray had been a cop. He knew how to drop trou and stare at the ceiling to get what wanted from powerful gay men.

There are many accounts or Ray's success around but you have to know how read between the lines.

Sorry, r465, your comment appeared while I was posting my comment at r466 about the relationship between Ray and Cukor. We're both right but you got it first.

Verificatia of Ray meat?

this is supposedly a quote from Ray: "George Cukor gave me my big break in this business. He thought I could be a star, and I knew somebody important like him could easily help me, so I let him take his pleasure and it didn't compromise me in the least."

Never have been rumors about Ray sizemeat but in the 1950s, that so broad and so hairy manchest induced endless hours of man fantasy. At least for me. Eldergay. Here he is in The Naked and the Dead. What a great title.

There was a joke in The Golden Girls about Dorothy being in the Aldo Ray Fan Club which was meant to show how pathetic she was. I thought this was a silly joke because Aldo was so hot. Look at him in Nightfall with Anne Bancroft, before he started to get too heavy. There is one shot where he stands with his back to the camera and his butt is in tight pants.

(R464) There is a lot about the Freed unit. While Arthur Freed was totally hetero, he was surrounded by gay talent - in front of and behind the scenes. Like Mayer, he did not judge someone by who they slept with but rather by their talent and what they brought to their job. As long as they didn't jeopardize the studio's reputation, Freed had no problem. In fact if it came to having to make a decision to hire someone gay or straight for the same job, he was more inclined to hire the gay person. He felt they were more "artistic". There will be some eye-opening revelations in the book about the "unit".

Aldo Ray ended up doing a non-sexual role in a porn movie late in his "career."

I'm sorry to post something so vague but I remember reading years ago about Dana Andrews allowing himself to be serviced by another actor/or director but it so long ago I don't remember the details.

Wasnt there rumors about Lucy walking in on Cesar Romero giving Desi a bj?

r462, the exec was universal's Ed Muhl

r472 Oh wow! Thank you x

Any info in the Strickling files about the male chorus dancers at MGM?

^ Bet they were all sucking on Van's Johnson

Just came upon His Girl Friday on TCM and couldn't resist watching it again (for the 100th time). The long takes between him and Roz with that crackling over-lapping dialogue that seems entirely ad-libbed.....amazing.

What a truly unique and amazing talent Cary Grant was and how tortured he must have been over his homosexuality (just think about it!).

And what of Howard Hawks? Can the brilliant man who directed this and Bringing Up Baby be entirely straight?

Bob Cummings was a health food enthusiast and big on vitamins. His son beame a fat trollish looking thing.

The Desi-Cesar hook-up did not involve Lucy "walking in on them." I believe the anecdote was from some Boze Hadleigh book. Desi allegedly said to Cesar (not sure of the context or place), "We both know what you want. So let's get it over with." As best I recall from what I read, Cesar sucked him off but who knows what else went on. Desi was a horny Latin so I would bet there were other blowjobs from other men along the way. too.

Yeah, the rumor wasn't that Lucy walked in on them but that Desi pulled it out and offered it to Romero because he was so tired of Romero's constant propositions. He just wanted to get it over and done with.

Has anyone read that Scotty Bowers book and if so is it good?

Any Laurence Olivier gossip? I read the biography sanctioned by his estate and it completely whitewashed his bisexuality

Btw I would skip the Scotty Bowers book, it's like Hollywood Babylon - the truth gets warped into fiction

Hollywood Babylon is so much fun, though.

Apparently Danny Kaye had affairs with Laurence Olivier as well as Gwen Verdon, though I don't know if they overlapped. I also don't know if that happened while she was married to Fosse, though Lord Knows he fooled around (or screwed around, which is fooling around without dinner! hehe) plenty on her.

Gay Montgomery Clift and bisexual Burt Lancaster hooked up during the filming of "From Here to Eternity" as well as Clift trolling local bars, often trying to pick up sailors and other servicemen stationed in Hawaii as well as leading to Clift showing up on set the next day hung-over. Also among the cast, Frank Sinatra was friendly with Clift and apparently okay with Monty's homosexuality - until one night a few years later when Sinatra hosted a party at his house and Monty spent most of the evening drunkenly and aggressively pursuing a male guest. Sinatra considered the behavior an insult to himself and an embarrassment to Clift and their friendship grew cold.

Were there rumors of Raymond Burr's homosexuality when he starred on TV in Perry Mason and Ironsides or did those really just surface after his death?

I think there was initially a lot of publicity about an early "tragic" marriage that kept reporters from probing. Or did they all know and somehow agreed to keep quiet?

It's kind of fascinating to realize that gay actors were plentiful in Hollywood but the press was willing to leave them alone. Or was homosexuality considered so very repugnant that it was downright unimaginable among heroes of the screen?

R489, there’s that clip of Burr going to the premiere of A Star is Born with an adorable young serviceman and there was no doubt he was being serviced.

He's not THAT bad, r481.

Raymond Burr and Frank Vitti, sailor. starts around 6.40

It was nice of Ray Burr to show support for the troops!

R474 Dana was so cute with that wavy hair and those flared nostrils.

Scotty Bowers is referenced in the Strickling files and was an occasional "guest" of various individuals working in the Freed Unit.

R492 Raymond Burr's date was very cute.

Dana Andrews was so sexy when he was younger. Unfortunately, he was a raging alcoholic and he did not age particularly well. His brother was actor Steve Forrest, who was in Mommie Dearest with Faye, playing a composite of characters, everyone from Greg Bautzer to Philip Terry.

I really wanted to lick Steve Forrest’s feets after seeing Mommie Dearest.

R489, it's been discussed here before, but Burr completely made up two wives and a son, all of whom "died tragically." He actually was married to a beard, a starlet named Bella Ward, for a few years in the late '40s; as for the fake ones, he would just shut down discussion with "I don't talk about that," as if it were far too heartbreaking, so that anyone who did press further would look like an asshole for trying.

Newspapers including the NYT listed them in his obituary without verification—I don't think it was until his biography was published that their existence was fact-checked.

The fakes were as follows:

"Annette Sutherland," a fictional Scottish actress who supposedly perished with Leslie Howard from GWTW on BOAC Flight 773, which was shot down by the Nazis in 1943 (an Annette Sutherland isn't listed on the passenger manifest, however)

"Laura Andrina Morgan," who died of cancer in 1955

"Michael Evan Burr," his pretend son with "Laura" who died of cancer in 1953

Wow, I hope Burr met with major karma for those lies. He certainly wasn’t much of an actor.

He was a good heavy in lots of film noirs.

Gwen Verdon supposedly had a romance with Danny Kaye when they made On the Riviera which was before she started with Fosse.

How were Raymond Burr's lies really any worse than the fake lives lived by other closeted stars of the Golden Age?

Outrageous, yes, but it was his key to survival. He was huge TV star in the 1960s-1980s, not sure if the young ones here realize that as he seems to be more remembered as playing the heavy in Rear Window and other early 1950s films.

Burr had a sadistic mobster role in Raw Deal, with Claire Trevor

It's also funny in that clip that right before Burr comes up with his sailor friend, Hedda Hopper is the one being interviewed.

Little did Hedda know in 1954 that her gay son Bill would soon be Raymond Burr's costar on Perry Mason for many years to come and she'd no longer have to support him.

I guess "Annette Sutherland" was the Lenay Kekua of Golden Age Hollywood

Burr had beautiful eyes though.

I can't wait for the Strickling Files guy's book. I hope it will be available (in physical form) in the UK...

Burr's "life partner" is still with us (he's 88 now.)

I kind of like Burr's strategy, R503. He lived in an era when he really did have to choose between being out and working in his profession, and he used a bearding strategy that involved zero personal inconvenience and didn't ask anything of anyone else.

It was very clever, really.

Can we hold a ceremony of remembrance for Evan Michael Burr and Laura Andrina Morgan? I hope the angels are watching over them.

LOL, R512.

r512 Laura is bearding for God now.

Hey OP, in future you don't have to ask permission to do a thread, you just do it.

Grow some balls, Nancy.

Buck never would HAVE ASKED to do a thread!

Norman Kerry had a brief moment in the celluloid firmament as a sex symbol. Although not gay or even really bi, he was happy to accept a blowjob from anyone, male or female. He gets bonus points for starring with the Datalounge's all-time fag hag, Miss Lucille LeSueur , in the silent classic The Unknown. Sadly, Louis B. Mayer put the kibosh on his career when he knocked up the very much married Irene Mayer Selznick and she had to get an abortion. Nonetheless, he still has a star on the Hollywood Walk Of Fame.

Would love to hear more about gay actors and gay life from the silent era.

Norman Kerry was HOT.

Interesting about Norman Kerry, who I'd never heard of before. I wonder if he made any memorable talkies? I'll have to look him up.

I've always meant to read Irene Mayer Slznick's autobiography....I think it's called something like A Very Private View. She was really there in the middle of Hollywood history, a child when she moved with her family to Hollywood as dad LB took over MGM, watched the studio grow and change and then married David O Selznick in the 1930s as he produced some of the biggest hits in the town, including GWTW. After divorcing him in 1945, she moved to NY and produced A Streetcar Named Desire, Bell, Book and Candle and The Chalk Garden on Broadway. What a life!

I heard decades ago, long before it was generally known that Burr was gay, that he was also into the brown paraphilia.

I was shot down before for posting that and I expect to be shot down again as a troll.

But that was the rumor I frequently heard.

Norman Kerry allegedly slept with Rudolph Valentino (who, like Kerry, was rumored to be bi)

Charles Bronson on Hollywood: "Half the guys are fruits."

Charles , only half? And how did you get your roles?

Burt Lahr?

Re: 525

He was straight, but could definitely camp it up as he did with the Cowardly Lion. Lahr was also a heavy drinker, Ray Bolger said he had a flask hidden in his Lion costume

Wasn't Ray Bolger a 'mo?

bump

Strickling guy - have the files come back yet? Any updates?

Seems all of the gossip has dried up

R251, ahem.

Where is Strickling guy?

R391, William Tannen was NOT gay! He was married at 20 to starlet Donrue Leighton, in 1935. The marriage ended in 1936. She was the love of his life and he remained unmarried until his death at 65.

"Gable...new type."

R455, NOT an improvement.

Gable generic?!!!

I'm not his biggest fan but I can't see how anyone could call him generic.

Please tell me r533 is a parody post

"...Burr...clever.."

R511, yes. I think it's hilarious.

Robin Hughes!

Bryan O’Bannion in Mame.

^ Was he really gay?

Eddie Nugent, the tall gangly co-star of Joan Crawford in some of her first starting roles, was gay and retired to TX in the late 40s with his partner

And Eddie had a new gent every night of the week.

Did he give good Hedda? Started in "Loose Ankles" 1930, (code for limp wrists?).

I can't find any info on Henry Daniels, who played Judy's brother in MMISL, he didn't make a lot of movies and he died young (only 52).I've heard rumors that he was openly gay and that may have been a reason why his career was so short

R539 I don’t know..but never married...very sexy though.

William S. Hart - silent era cowboy, forced by the studios to marry a young starlet who filed for separation and then divorce after less than a year into the marriage which produced one son; supposedly groomed younger men as cowboys/western actors

Gary Cooper - reported to have used the casting couch with male studio executives before eventually becoming a star; also rumored to have posed for physique and nude photos before his conservative father, who was a judge, discovered what his son was doing and put a stop to it (Father Cooper wasn't keen on the idea of his son entering the movie business to begin with)

Burt Lancaster - bisexual; posed nude and slept with studio execs before stardom as well as others afterward and wasn't shy about acknowledging either

George O'Brien - silent-era actor who had success in talkies; same as with Lancaster, never shied away from his nude and almost-nude physique photos as well as having sex with men; worked briefly with closet case Spencer Tracy whom O'Brien turned away when Spence pursued him

What a wonderful thread. Keep going!!

George O'Brien nude. meaty ass!

I dunno if Spencer Tracy was a closet case, but it wouldn't shock me if he used the casting couch to get ahead. The best bio on Tracy (by James Curtis, who also wrote the definitive WC Fields bio, both are must reads) says that the gay rumors probably started with, guess who, Scotty Bowers which were transcribed by William J. Mann for his bio on Kate Hepburn in which it says she was a full blown lesbian (which isn't enitirely accurate, she more than likely bi-leaning). Mann also ghostwrote Bowers' s book Full Service, which could explain why these rumors resurfaced lately.

Tracy and O'Brien were very close early on in their careers. And didn't Tracy live on George Cukor's estate for a while? The same estate that was famous for its regular all male parties. I think some have suggested his problems with drink were exacerbated by his inability to accept his sexuality. It is hard to accept that his and Hepburn's relationship was anything other than platonic. I see her more as a mother figure to him than anything else...

Edmund Lowe was in a lavender marriage with Lilyan Tashman

Danny Kaye and his wife Sylvia Fine were also in a lavender marriage

Eddie Nugent was kinda cute

Re Spencer Tracy, how do you all explain that as he was married to his wife for several decades (until he died), they had two children, and therefore had no need to beard with Hepburn? It seems impossible to explain Tracy and Hepburn's relationship as anything other than sexual/romantic in light of his marriage.

Which is not to say that he couldn't have been bisexual.

I don't think handsome silent star Charles Farrell has been mentioned in this long thread yet.

Was he rumored to be gay? He was indeed very handsome.

R300, Robert Taylor liked the boys, but bearded with Stanwyck (a.k.a. Virginia Barkley, the Woman with Backbone and Bite!) due to career pressures. He was prettier than she was when they 'married'.

Farley Granger wrote about them in his book:

“I had just returned from working in Europe, and I wasn’t up on the latest,” he says. After he asked Stanwyck how her husband, bisexual actor Robert Taylor, was doing, Granger says, “She just stared at me very coldly and said, ‘You mean Mr. Taylor? He’s left me. For a woman!’”

Why did Robert Taylor bother to leave Barbara Stanwyck for a woman if he was gay?

He was bi

Rumors that Craig Stevens and Alexis Smith were in a lavender marriage.

I heard that too, r558. Decades ago.

[quote]Re Spencer Tracy, how do you all explain that as he was married to his wife for several decades (until he died), they had two children, and therefore had no need to beard with Hepburn? It seems impossible to explain Tracy and Hepburn's relationship as anything other than sexual/romantic in light of his marriage.

It wasn't a bearding situation, because it wasn't publicized. I think Hepburn was drawn to lost causes and he was drawn to her as a mother figure, which probably suited them both. I also think Hepburn was uncomfortable with being a total lez and probably loved the whole romance story that eventually took hold.

R560 And it was a useful shield for Hepburn. The doomed, tragic romance that could never be. Good publicity. Privately, of course, Hepburn liked women.

r561 Time voted it as the greatest love story of the 20th century.

Is there any truth to the rumour that Gary Cooper was gay or bi?

Early in his career Cooper was casting couch gay. Like everybody else.

"Time voted it as the greatest love story of the 20th century."

Who came in second - Will and Jada?

r565 Liberace and Sonja Henie.

Farley Granger slept with Maurice Evans when they were both acting in a Army Special Services theater troupe during WWII

Maurice Evans?! From Bewitched?! Wouldn't have pictured those two together

Was Dick York the only straight man to ever have appeared on Bewitched?

Any Ivor Novello gossip? I know he wasn't a Hollywood star per se, but he was a big star in the UK. One of the craziest rumors was that he slept with Winston Churchill

Speaking of Maurice Evans, if you want to see him as his campiest check out Androcles and the Lion ('52) where he plays the Emperor of Rome.

George Brent always pinged to me. He married 5 times and fathered 2 children, but the first four marriages only lasted 1-2 years each. Ruth Chatterton and Ann Sheridan were among his wives. He proposed to Bette Davis, but she turned him down. Bette said he liked to put on fashion shows for her . . . red flag!

R570, this isn't really gossip but it's the only Ivor Novello story I have handy. My partner's mother is very elderly, old enough to have seen Ivor Novello onstage. She and her friend were asked to leave a matinee for sobbing too loudly. Apparently their lachrymose behavior annoyed Mr. Novello, who was pretending to die a romantic death in a 1930s musical.

R571, I think there's a story that when Davis and Geraldine Fitzgerald were making "Dark Victory," D asked F if she'd slept with Brent. Hearing No, she said, "Well you're the only woman on the lot who hasn't."

FWIW, one of Fitzgerald's kids was actually fathered by Orson Welles. I think he became a director too.

Ivor Novello slept with writers Siegfried Sassoon and J.R. Ackerley. Apparently, he got around.

Michael Lindsay-Hogg is the son of Geraldine Fitzgerald. He directed some of the first ground-breaking videos in the UK for The Beatles and The Rolling Stones as well as much of the episodes of Brideshead Revisted.

Was George Brent the one with the wooden leg? Or was that Herbert Marshall?

I get my Bette Davis leading men confused.

Maurice Evans was old enough to be Farley Granger's father - I bet he was thrilled to hook up with a hot, much younger guy

David Manners, Turn-of-the-Century Twink

Were any classic Hollywood stars found or rumored to have done porn?

^ Joan Crawford did a stag film early in her career

Ivor Novello was hot.

And Farley Granger was a slut.

That is all.

I never knew of David Manners until I saw The Last Flight many years ago. A wonderful early talkie about WW1 vets adrift not knowing what they will do with their lives. His beauty really struck me and he was a very sympathetic actor. Maybe somebody who knows how to do these things can post photos of him modeling swimwear for some company back when men still wore tops.

He lived to be quite old and ended up in a senior citizens home. A big fan of horror films befriended him and documented their friendship on line. It was both heartening and sad. At one point this young fan showed him his laptop computer which completely amazed Manners who said he was glad he lived most of his life in a time when they didn't exist.

Re: 579

Lupe Velez, Una Merkel, Jean Harlow, Rita Hayworth, Mamie Van Doren and Jayne Mansfield all allegedly did stag films pre fame. Contrary to popular belief, Marilyn Monroe did not appear in a stag film ( at least the one that's been around for decades advertising to feature her, it's actually Playboy Playmate and MM lookalike Arlene Hunter). But it wouldn't shock me if she did actually appear in one

R571 When asked why her marriage to George Brent failed, Ann Sheridan replied "Brent bent."

R576 Marshall had the wooden leg. Interesting that Bette was always the Alpha, many of male co-stars were never quite on the same level of fame or power, many were superb actors (Claude Rains, Marshall) some were just ok- George Brent. But Bette was the boss.

Manners?

Shit!

Here's Ivor Novello, who got around.

Hot or not?

Newman

Burton

Didn't Chuck Connors do gay porn at some point?

I know Glenn Corbett and probably some other guys did physique magazines.

Didn't Chuck Connors do gay porn at some point?

I know Glenn Corbett and probably some other guys did physique magazines.

Richard Chamberlain took decades to come out of the closet but didn't everyone know he was gay even back when he starred on Dr. Kildare and "dated" Carol Burnett?

Almost time for a part 2!

R587, in "Gosford Park" he was portrayed by Jeremy Northam.

What classic "male" actors might have dabbled in adult entertainment?

R567 When Maurice Evans appeared with Ron Ely on a couple of episodes of the Tarzan tv series he must have thought he'd died and gome to heaven.

Loved Maurice Evans as Dr. Zaius

R595, that episode of Tarzan as titled "Basil of the Bulge".

I can't believe we're concerned about Maurice Evans!

What is known of Ron Ely's love life?

R598, massive pussyhound. Big Bush supporter.

Are we doing a sequel?