The Treasons a Baby Cries (The Mueller Investigation Part 34)

Link to previous thread for reference.

Previous thread titles for reference:

First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation (10/27/17)

First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation, Part Two (10/28/17)

The Four Treasons: Mueller Investigation, Part 3 (10/31/17)

A Man For All Treasons: Mueller Investigation, Part 4 (11/5/17)

It's Beginning to Look a lot like Treason! The Mueller Investigation Part 5 (12/4/17)

Treason Is The Reason For The Season! The Mueller Investigation Part 6 (12/16/17)

Treason to Believe (The Mueller Investigation Part 7) (12/26/17)

I Love You For Sentimental Treasons (The Mueller Investigation Part 8) (1/3/18)

Give Me One Treason To Stay Here... (The Mueller Investigation Part 9) (1/15/18)

Treasons of Love (The Mueller Investigation Part 10) (1/24/18)

For Treasons Which Are Well Known To Them (The Mueller Investigation Part 11) (1/30/18)

Come on and Treason Down, Treason Down the Road (The Mueller Investigation Part 12) (2/6/18)

13 Treasons Why (The Mueller Investigation Part 13) (2/18/18)

By Treason of Insanity (The Mueller Investigation Part 14) (2/23/18)

The Edge of Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 15) (2/28/18)

A Treason to Live; A Treason to Die (The Mueller Investigation Part 16)…(3/10/18)

Treasons of the Heart (The Mueller Investigation Part 17) (3/17/18)

A Stormy Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 18) (3/21/18)

Lovin', Touchin', Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 19) (3/26/18)

Everything Happens for a Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 20) (4/4/18)

For All the Right Treasons (The Mueller Investigation Part 21) (4/11/18)

Treasons Change (The Mueller Investigation Part 22) (4/16/18)

Dangerous Tre'asons (The Mueller Investigation Part 23) (4/22/18)

Don't Stop (the) Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 24) (5/1/18)

Got This Treason in My Body (The Mueller Investigation Part 25) (5/7/18)

I'm Treason on a Jet Plane... (The Mueller Investigation Part 26) (5/14/18)

Treasonnaires' Disease (The Mueller Investigation Part 27) (5/21/18)

You've Lost That Lovin' Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 28) (6/2/18)

Multiple Treasons Why (The Mueller Investigation Part 29) (6/9/18)

For Undisclosed Treasons (The Mueller Investigation Part 30) (6/18/18)

The Apple Doesn't Fall Far from the Treason (The Mueller Investigation Part 31) (06/23/18)

Treason d'être (The Mueller Investigation Part 32) (06/30/18)

My Treasons Are Not My Own (The Mueller Investigation Part 33) (07/08/18)

The Treasons a Baby Cries (The Mueller Investigation Part 34) (07/13/19)

What perfect timing for these new indictments!

So Rump knew about this for a week?

Is THAT why Ghouliani has been in hiding? I mean, it would seem that if Rump knew about this that Gholiani would be out there in full force trying to do that thing he does... but he's been nowhere in sight?

Round ‘em up.

Did you catch when a reporter asked Rosenstein to confirm that the hacking did not change vote totals he answered by saying there was nothing in these allegations that stated that without dismissing the possibility outright?

July 27

Also July 27

Guiliani stated yesterday that the Russians indicted should have their charges dismissed.....

Bwahahaha

So much for a happy tea in the second-tier castle

Trump kept the queen waiting. Tsk, tsk.

So R6 he basically said he couldn't say that they didn't change the totals?

Thanks OP for the thread.

wanna bet that Dana Roherbacher is the congressman ?

Maybe Rudy has been busy, and he and Miller had a late night at Pussy N Boots, and it wasn't the cat food plant.

Perhaps Ruby and Stephie gotta have their drag time.

The FBI did not deny vote hacking. Let that sink in.

We’ve been had.

Hillary needs to be sworn in now. She won fair and square.

Yes, R6, I caught that. Lady in the blue shirt. She asked the question quite directly and making no mistake about it. The Deputy AG made sure he didn't answer that part of the question.

So does this mean the investigation is over? Or are they still investigating?

Dear god, R18. I hope you're a troll.

It continues. Bear in mind that election tampering is only one of the things Mueller is looking at. There are the various financial improprieties of which he's suspected, and obstruction of justice as well.

MONEY laundering and the use of bitcoins smells like Kushner skullduggery to me.

B-b-but Don said he ask Vlad and he said the Russians didn’t interfere! What’s going on here???

love the thread title, OP!

Could this be one of the reasons Rosenstein asked for more prosecutors?

I'm the maroon in the other thread who asked for a link and someone was kind enough to supply it. Thanks.

This was the state of play regarding indictments before today. This investigation is a long way from its conclusion.

We'd tell you, R18, but you would probably not understand.

Mark Warner was just saying on CNN that Trump’s ad hoc, “winging it” style in these summit meetings is very unproductive and dangerous. And he also claimed that Trump cannot be allowed to meet alone with Putin.

Lawyer on CNN just said, “There will be more indictments to come.” Thank God!

It is especially dangerous, R26, when even HE does not know what he is saying. Even when in the same room, it often feels as though he was at a different meeting than what actually occurred.

I am asking this sincerely. Not trolling.

What exactly is the evidence that Trump colluded with Russians? And what exactly is he supposed to have done?

R11 How late was he?

But r28, he said he will "strongly ask the question" of Putin as to whether there was "meddling." What part of that kind of leadership is hard to fathom?

R29, read Seth Abramson's Twitter thread tying all of the pieces together.

Won't see Trump praising these indictments on Russian operatives.

Any other President would be commending the investigators.

So are we taking bets on the next round-up?

Will it be the journalist with no morals, the politician that sold out his country, the state lobbyist that would do anything for a buck, the campaign official with loose lips, or the right-wing organizations in which it all passed through?

They’re gonna get their reality show all right, but not the one they thought.

Stay tuned.

Absolutely, r33. He’s a fucking disgrace.

R33 is correct. In this case, look for Trump to be apologising to Putin for being outed.

The summit needs to be canceled now that this has come to light. No talks until these people are prosecuted and damn sure no meeting alone.

Those repugs that went there last week should be investigated. Who goes to dinner in enemy territory in the middle of a cyber war?

WTF, REPUBLICANS?

R33 Will we see any of the GOP praise the indictments?

Was the announcement about Russian interference deliberately made ahead of Trump's love-in with Putin? No, I'm not a hand-wringing troll fretting about "the timing"—I'd love evidence that those in the know are being politically savvy and strategic (not that I doubt Mueller has those qualities).

45/ I'm wondering now if DCLeaks was launched on June 8 so that Don Jr. could see it on June 9 (directed there by others, whether Russian or American) and see it as a sign of Russian "good faith" before meeting with Kremlin agent Natalia Veselnitskaya and a Russian intel officer.

r6 The indictment says not only did Russia target the voting administration systems of states, but also of counties in Iowa, Georgia and Florida. So first we were told they got into 3 states, then 6, then 21, then almost all of them, and now we know they were drilling down looking for vulnerabilities in county systems.

R29, if you're not trolling you should understand no one can really answer that question (aside from just speculating) until Mueller is done with his investigation and shares all the results.

I picture Putin whispering to Trump, "We can help you, comrade." during their little meeting and Trump thanking him...hopefully all on a CIA wire.

Seth Abramson @SethAbramson · 28m 38/ (IMPORTANT) Rosenstein said Trump *knew before today* that this was coming. What are the chances Trump's *stooges in Congress* also knew this was coming—and that the way they conducted themselves with Strzok yesterday was an attempt to blunt the blow from today's indictments?

It was congress who timed the hearing, not the other way around. The FBI doesn’t need political stunts because they have ALL the DETAILED receipts.

From the sounds of it they have all the emails, voice recordings, witnesses and timelines, maybe even video.

I’ve seen this a thousand times. The perp is always riding the highest just before they are laid out flat.

Ron DeSantis came up in the indictment thread. Why do people thing this is the unnamed congressional turncoat that aided the enemy?

What about Meadows? He seems up to his neck in it all.

I think the congressman might be Brian Mast. The guy who received the info described in the indictment seems to be Aaron Nevins. He posted some of the data he got and it was used by Mast's campaign consultant. So Mast is my guess.

Any comment from the congressmen in question?

I would like to know which congressmen are compromised. That isn’t too much to ask, is it?

Look. Trump knew about these indictments, and still, while he was in the UK, he called Mueller's investigation a "witch hunt." And as my darling Jake Tapper reminded Wolf earlier, The Trump campaign was warned about the Russian hackers and interference in March of 2016 and again in July. So for Mueller to say "there's no evidence the Trump campaign knew they were talking to Russian Intel officers" etc. is just legal ass covering. Maybe they're still developing the evidence but they will get that smoking gun. But here's another thing to ponder.This indictment confirms they hacked into states' voting machines and voting rolls, etc. So think about it. Why the hell would they get into our voting process, infiltrate our state election operations and not alter the votes?

Mueller probably wanted to get these indictments out because Congress is demanding the FBI confidential sources be turned over. The other thing that struck me is that Mueller has now handed this aspect of the investigation over to the FBI counter intelligence division. He will continue to investigate the level of American participation in massive election fraud and conspiracy to interfere with our elections.

Good point r38

12 Russian hackers 11 charged w/identity theft 10 hrs grilling Strzok 9 June ‘16 Don Jr. meets Russians 8 Sealed indictments 7 R.Stone’s friends probed 6 November coming soon 5 Guilty pleas! 4 Convictions 3 Companies charged 2.0 Guccifer Russian intel & 1 Manafort in jail 🎶

Who is the journalist that sold us up the river? And who is the state lobbyist?

I want names.

How can Trump even consider to ever go back to the US? And those senators who visited Russia around the 4th of July should be locked up by now. The US government has been under attack for almost two years and it shouldn't proceed like everything's fine. The Republican Party, the Kochs, the Mercers, etc. should be officially declared enemy of the State. Freeze their assets, lock them up, interview them, hold them accountable for their actions.

The congressman is Brian Mast...a republican from Florida...yes, hes in office now....his district includes Palm Beach....isnt that where Mar A Lago is ?

R46, DeSantis was suggested because of this:

Trump’s return to America will be hard to manage.

His press office will have to defend against the false NATO claims about defense spending commitments that Trump has been repeating while defending his destructive public and private meeting behavior.

That would be hard enough, but he also knifed UK’s PM in the press and suggested a political rival replace her. The excuse for this seems to be that he doesn’t know what he’s doing and may have also said a nice thing or two about the PM.

That would be hard enough, but there’s also the matter of playing defense about Russian intelligence officers conspiring with American political actors. While abroad, they are denigrating a counter-intelligence investigation into attacks on America by a hostile foreign power. The WH press machine continues to hold its ground on the claim that the investigation, despite returning 12 indictments for intelligence officers of the hostile foreign power, is a witch hunt.

That would be hard enough, but they plan to meet, for a private and possibly friendly summit organized in defiance of the recommendation of senior US officials, that very same hostile foreign power in the wake of the US government charging that officials of the foreign power committed crimes including conspiracy against the US.

Is there any way to see if my vote was changed? I am in Michigan

The journalist who asked Guccifer for Black Lives Matter documents was Lee Stranahan. He used to work for Breitbart and I think I read somewhere he now works for Sputnik.

In other news:

[quote]Did you catch when a reporter asked Rosenstein to confirm that the hacking did not change vote totals he answered by saying there was nothing in these allegations that stated that without dismissing the possibility outright?

I, just like many of you, have always firmly believed the numbers were altered. But how much of what Rosenstein said was just him being cautious? I mean, regardless, that in itself speaks volumes that our intelligence community cannot deny that there is a possibility the numbers were changed.

Also, I will never forget this that was posted in one of the earliest threads and repeated a few times but hasn't been reposted in awhile:

[quote]There's already proof. I work in the industry. I sat in a meeting with the head of cyber security investigations for the FBI in Florida. Their systems were hacked in 2016. What's difficult is proving that (or more accurately stated "how") the votes were manipulated. But go back to election night and remember how Trump pulled ahead in Florida, NC, MI, PA and WI. It happened almost like clock work once the precincts reporting crossed the 50% threshold. This shit is deep. Putin had already done this in his own election and also in Ukraine. We should be very worried about the EU elections coming up.

R61: Yep! I remember that post!

There are going to be pieces of this vast investigation all over the place, and out of Trump's reach if he fires Mueller. Mueller is very smart about the way he is dividing things up.

[quote] I mean, regardless, that in itself speaks volumes that our intelligence community cannot deny that there is a possibility the numbers were changed.

Something Reality Winner went to prison for. She shared her story with The Intercept.

[quote] The Intercept published an intelligence document on June 5, and it described details about Russian efforts to hack voting systems in the U.S. about one week before the 2016 presidential election.

Somehow I doubt Donald Trump is very eager to pardon her.

Trump doesn’t realise for a moment that the whole world thinks he’s an idiot.

These crooks are the luckiest lot in history.

The 3 things that are saving their neck at the moment:

1. Americans have to work 2 jobs to survive so they don’t have time to sift through all the reports.

2. And FBI agent has yet to leak the goods. One doc dump email to the NYTimes and it’s all over.

3. An American citizen has yet to sue for a possibility of an altered vote. It only takes one citizen in one of the states that were hacked to sue. Through the court process, past polling procedures will be scrutinized

Trump is going to make a big ass out of himself with Putin on Monday. He won’t be able to help himself.

Did Trump know about the 12 incitements when he said that Russia would be the easiest of his trips?

No, he will behave perfectly fine, because he knows better than to set up the stage for a public feud with his handler who's giving him new instructions.

Has that shady congressmen made a statement? This can’t be good for business.

R29 there is information coming out every day. But right now one of the main situations we know of is a meeting with and an email from Don Jr. ..honestly, those are the two things that would be enough. And there were 4 Russians at the meeting, at least one Russian recorded it. And more than likely at least one of their phones had been tapped by the FBI.

The truth is, all those law enforcement people that congress interrogates...those people already know Trump is cooked.

If only that were true, R60!

R66 I’ve thought about class actions suits on hacked votes, but I live in IL.

DL Legal Dept, could the right torte attorney build a class action suit on this? To me, the basis for a lawsuit like this is almost EXACTLY like Brown vs Board!! I mean, it seems to me that there are numerous “damages,” literally numerous inalienable rights were/are violated when our VOTING SYSTEM is not reliable. A penetrated voting system literally means that every citizen is prevented from pursuing all the promises guaranteed in our Constitution. The fundamental idea of a government by and through REEPRESENTATION is a complete farce if our voting system is cheated in ANY way. Why is this legal fight not happening and what can be done to MAKE this happen? Of course, I will be hiring Michael Avenatti and fucking his brains out between our strategy meetings.

I agree. If you can afford a lawyer and live in one of these states then go for it.

A go fund me would bring in a ton of money for legal fees.

Whichever citizen could get this to the courts would be an American hero.

[quote]Did Trump know about the 12 incitements when he said that Russia would be the easiest of his trips?

Yes - yes he did. He is not one to let reality interfere with his world. Like a couple of days ago saying how great things were with NK when he was sent the real vague letter that Trump liked because it called him "excellency" but had no substance, even though that morning they had skipped a meeting without notice or reason to discuss the return of the veteran remains (which Trump lied about already receiving).

[quote]@AriMelber --DOJ says Pres. Trump was given advance notice of indictment (appropriate as a national security measure) — and note *then* Trump denigrated the probe, praised Putin and said Putin would be his easiest meeting on this trip.

Mast is on Twitter trying to distract from the scandal.

Constituents are not having it.

Will you be resigning this afternoon?

Holden Lewis @HoldenL Replying to @pattymo

The congressional candidate was Brian Mast, a Republican who represents the 18th district of Florida. A Republican political operative and blogger named Aaron Nevins asked Guccifer for Florida-related info. Guccifer complied and the info was given to the Mast campaign.

[quote] The FBI did not deny vote hacking. Let that sink in. We’ve been had. Hillary needs to be sworn in now. She won fair and square.

Yep. She is our rightful 45th President.

I smell Ivanka and Kushner all over this.

R74 you could ask Jill Stein for some of those recount funds, oh, wait, oops... nevermind.

"Roger Stone: here's a shredder, a fifth of scotch, a loaded gun, and you're in a locked room. You know what to do."

Again, Lindsey Graham is assuming the role, or assigned by Turtle, to pressure Democratic colleagues to vote for Trump's nominees and agenda going toward 2020. What kind of IOUs do Democrats owe to Lindsey? Why would Dems accept Lindsey's views as superior? Are these Dems gentleman ringer-uppers or something?

Has he been visiting the furor’s colorist?

Roger Stone, the prolific swinger.

If it was the 1800s or early 1900s, he'd be "swinging" from something.

The Senatrice IS looking mighty orange.

Has Putty been storing up a lot of sperm and hasn't washed his ass to reward his underling sychophant?

POLITICO: House conservatives prepping new push to oust Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein.

Conservative sources say they could file the impeachment document as soon as Monday, as Meadows and Freedom Caucus founder Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) look to build Republican support in the House.

Jordan isn't gone yet? He needs to resign. They only have so much time until November.

The Trump agents in Congress know this is likely the last period of time where they can expect to whip their majority in order to take such an action. I wouldn't be surprised if they try, r86.

Mueller may have everything he needs right now. He will slowly release indictments over the next few months.

I’d say the cat is out if the bag at this point.

The train has left the station.

The pig has left the pin.

Is there really no way Hillary can be sworn in? It all seems so unfair. And now they’re getting ready to fire Rosenstein and sweep everything under the rug. Trump and the Russians have won. Everybody knows they fixed the election, but no one will do anything about it. It seems like the investigation is over and there’s nothing to show for it.

Oh well then let's just wring our hands into bone dust and WITHER!!

R91, knock it off. No one is buying your blustery concern anymore. It doesn't work and it's futile. Grow a pair or shut the fuck up and get off the battlefield.

What's so great about today's development: 12 Russians indicted will lead directly to double or triple the number of Americans indicted.

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for less, yes?

If anything this reassures me that Mueller and his team are definitely being strategic. There's no way this happened today without a reason.

Is filing a class action suit really even a thing? I would have imagined if it was actually a viable thing someone would have done it already.

If it is, someone please get Avenatti on this immediately!

It has to start with one complaint. Get moving.

I assume that no one has sued before because no one had evidence; there was no factual basis for a lawsuit. There were rumors and surmise, of course, but no evidence. Now there may be grounds for a suit.

^ BINGO!!!

John Brennan on MTP just now: It's tied to the Russian military. Next to come will be American conspirators.

Conspirators, as in engaged.

Treason treason treason. Every fucking one of the Repugs( and there are many), journalists, corporations, billionaire right wingers, conservative think tanks, politicians who no doubt participated in this fucking mess need to be rounded up, assets frozen, and then executed.

This is deep. But his may finally be the undoing of the modern conservative movement.

Yes, votes were changed. There is very little doubt. Hillary needs to be sworn in, all of Dumpster's judges and justices removed immediately.

Thank you to all of you who have made reading this thread so informative. You do much better than I ever could.

Agree with r102

Also, all of the SC decisions since Gorsuck has been on the bench are null and void until Hillary's pick is sworn in, the cases reexamined and another vote is had.

Also, all of the SC decisions since Gorsuck has been on the bench are null and void until Hillary's pick is sworn in, the cases reexamined and another vote is had.

R97, are you for real? As far as I’m concerned all our great social changes cane through LITIGATION.

It's so frustrating that something so obvious has to be backed up with proof and some people still call it FAKE NEWS and DEEP STATE CONSPIRACY. Who are these headless people who still need more proof that Trump is a Russian asset and the GOP is selling the US to Russia to hold on to their self declared power?.

Yes, R106, obviously. So as I said.. SOMEONE GET AVENATTI ON THIS.

And if they do find undeniable proof that the numbers were altered against HRC what can be done? Wasn't that that the job of the Electoral College to fucking not be as moronic as the person they went ahead and put in?

Yes, get Avenatti on the case.

R107 I've given up on them. They will always say it's a conspiracy. Fuck them. They are treasonous too.

My fear(I hate putting this out there)- with the vote totals likely altered, is Putin's final plan to create so much doubt in our elections that Trump actually says the 2020 election cannot go ahead because we need to make sure it's sound and accurate?

R108, we’ve discovered that certain sections of the Constitution are actually useless. The Electoral College and the 25th Amendment, for instance.

Any lawyers on DL?

Sign me up.

A lot of the repub congressmen are really, really dumb. They don’t know how to read signs, signals, or metaphor. You have to be literal, and then they go into deeper denial, saying things like “fake news.” Crazy and dumber than dirt.

No, if suing is a viable things someone start tweeting Avenatti. I don't have Twitter or else I would.

I like to sometimes think that there's no way Mueller and his team don't sift through the internet to see what people are saying/thinking. In my fantasy, they've stumbled across these threads and occasionally drop us hints and clues as to what's going on and what can be done.

YES ITS A FANTASY but fuck it. If Rethugs can constantly masturbate to their fantasies about Clinton I can have this one!

R109, I understand the fear, but I think we'd be past the point of trusting Trump's authority on what's fair or not. If, say, Mitch McConnell called for it, we're fucked.

[quote]What kind of IOUs do Democrats owe to Lindsey? Why would Dems accept Lindsey's views as superior? Are these Dems gentleman ringer-uppers or something?

None. They wouldn't. And no.

Next?

R113 I like to have that fantasy too.

Mueller team if you are reading this - White House CFO.

I just watched a clip of that beast who was birthed by John McCain. She had the nerve to screech at people not to cheer that Gowdy was stepping down because "he is one of the good ones."

God, I can't stand that fucking dumb bitch.

[quote]the right torte attorney

Ready. Set. BAKE!

The one thing that I've kept coming back to in these threads, over and over and over, is something Elijah Cummings said when he was asked about all the Democrats who boycotted the inauguration. He said something to the effect that there was a specific reason, and that people would eventually know what it was.

I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories. Human beings are programmed to look for patterns, even when they aren't actual patterns. Coincidence is not causation. Intuition isn't fact. But...I know all that...and I'm starting to believe Hillary won.

God you are such a bitch r118

R117, Sired, not "birthed"!

Cummings is the first rep I ever contacted, r119. He's not my reps but I called his office regarding orange's violation of the 25th amendment.

This sounds weird but I trust him a lot. A LOT. I can't explain it but I feel he is one of the Good Guys. Aside from being a democrat, I mean.

4 more months until November. We can make a difference by voting. I'm going to take a picture of my vote as proof of who I voted for.

Cummings got them good with the giant posted of the 5 convictions. So far.

Everyone supporting these crooks will have egg on their face.

What will their excuses be?

Voter machines were manipulated...that is the truth and the FBI needs to stop being coy about it. 3 times now, Republicans have robed us of the vote and every time it was very bad for our country.

R123, if you take a picture of your vote it can be thrown out, at least in some states.

R123, your name isn't on your ballot, anyway. There'd be no proof of anything.

Nice article in Vox summing up the history of the hacks as we know it.

Meanwhile, another cyber attack is imminent...

By stating that votes were hacked, it would be necessary to declare the vote invalid and send the country into chaos. I don't think any one person or organization wants to deal with or be responsible for that.

Something, however, must be done. What about all that money that Congress allocated to defend against cyber attack?

It’s a shame the way repugs on both sides of the pond are working with our enemies destroy democracies across the globe.

What did they get out of this? Some cash and a fancy office? Was it worth it?

Why can’t we ever get the Kochs or the Mercers on the record?

There should be news cameras st their houses 24/7.

They are the one calling the shots. Everything else is just noise.

Murdoch, Koch's, Mercers and the rest like them should be rounded up and executed as enemies of free people around the world.

I 💟 r52!

[quote]By stating that votes were hacked, it would be necessary to declare the vote invalid and send the country into chaos. I don't think any one person or organization wants to deal with or be responsible for that.

Is it possible that the intelligence community knows EVERYTHING, including that he is not the rightful president, but can do nothing without the involvement of Congress because, without them, it would be considered a coup?

I just don’t get why the cnn truck is not outside of their house right now.

Anybody else would have 20 reporters on their beat?

If it weren’t for Jane Mayer we all be in the dark.

R135 Yes. I think there is enough evidence to convince most people the votes were altered. However, they need absolute proof. I'm not sure they will get that or can get that. But there is little doubt votes were changed and the Presidency robbed from HRC.

Here’s the deal. The FBI needs to just SAY the vote was hacked, and then admit that they do not know the legal solution to this. But that’s the only way. We can only start by facing the truth. And the truth is that our Constitution has no remedy for a cheated voted. Ok then. Brush ourselves off, work with the facts, and win the next election!!!!!! That’s ALL we can do. Yes, people will flip out. Yes, there will be hysterics. Yes, there will be fear and panic.

The only argument I can see being made against this is that perhaps it is indeed wiser to wait to tell the people AFTER they aren’t controlling Congress. If the DOJ tells the people, then the Repubs will stoke the fear even harder, so I can see the case for waiting. But it MUST be told. Americans need the truth, we can take it because, what choice do we have? We won’t have a choice but to accept it and deal with it as best we can knowing that currently we have NO LAWS dictating how to handle this.

I’m ready for the truth though. I don’t want to wait anymore.

This is why we need to start voting the way Washington State does. No in-person voting, mail-in only, and you can check the status of your ballot online.

[quote]The only argument I can see being made against this is that perhaps it is indeed wiser to wait to tell the people AFTER they aren’t controlling Congress. If the DOJ tells the people, then the Repubs will stoke the fear even harder, so I can see the case for waiting.

I don't see how waiting makes it any easier. I think by waiting and if the Dems take control of Congress they'll just push and say that it's all a bunch of lies that the Dems are manufacturing to get Hillary in.

R139, your solution to hacked voting is to computerize the whole process? We need to go back to paper and markers at this point.

R141 who said anything about computerizing the whole process? Mail in ballots are not computerized. They're PAPER Ballots you MAIL IN but they are also trackable for the voter.

Meadows, Biggs, Jordan, Gohmert, DeSantis, Gaetz, S. King, Issa, Nunes, Poe, Gowdy, Conoway, and several other House Republicans, are manuvering to stop Mueller through an effort to fire Rosenberg. They are acting emboldened from the day long assault on the FBI agent on Thursday. Fox News is drumming up hate and anger toward the DOJ, the FBI, and the investigation. Hopefully, Ryan, McCarthy, Scalise, and others in leadership, will have a slither of decency and stop the outrageous efforts of this sinister caucus.

Does anyone have a clip of the person asking Rosenstein about hacked votes?

R130 all but 5 states have requested and received the funds. I can't recall, Ohio, Texas I think were 2. I don't want to dig through my emails to search. Every security expert calls for hand counts and paper ballots.

I'm not afraid of this entire trump administration going down, including supreme court judges named and other judicial appts that were held until repubs were in power.

It will be chaos for sure but we can let the cheaters win. Hillary Clinton should be rightfully named as president, or short of that, emergency elections held in 90 days, no more.

They showed McConnell and Ryan the proof in October. He refused to listen to Obama's people and make a joint statement to stop the hack.

We need to convict and send these people to jail, we need to know what happened with the voting, and we need to fix the loophole that allowed this to happen.

I don't know if they can wait for the Dems to be in charge because 1) it might be too late and 2) it would be seen as political retribution instead of justice.

But, I also don't think they can do it right before the election because an October surprise would also look too political.

I'd look for September to be a big month.

[quote]Hopefully, Ryan, McCarthy, Scalise, and others in leadership, will have a slither of decency and stop the outrageous efforts of this sinister caucus.

I'm curious as to when any of them have ever given any sort of indication that they had a slither of decency?

Based on the information included in the indictment, it indicates there are multiple US citizens involved....the next indictments will come before or right after Labor Day....and it will be a mass sweep. The DOJ is ready. You dont describe individuals without naming them (when everybody knows the identity), if youre not ready to move. The sweep will include not only Trump and assoc, but lobbyists, congress members, and lord knows who else.........Do you honestly believe RR is requesting close to 300 attorneys travel to DC just to prep for Kavanaughs confirmation ? Seriously. Its coming sooner than we think, and the results will be devastating to our democracy.

R142, what do you think tallies those votes? What do you think is used to track them? What will you be checking to track your vote? It's all hackable at every point where a computer is involved.

I think the ultimate goal of all of this was to have us all lose faith in our election process and, honestly, I have. The blue wave coming to fruition in November will bring back some of my faith in it but we'll have to see what happens in 2020.

R150, I disagree. It will be devastating to those seeking to destroy the democracy and an impetus for change to prevent this from happening again. It will ultimately strengthen us.

R151 what do you think tallies votes NOW?

I think that not only did Russians hack our elections by getting into swing states' county voting machines and flipping some votes, but also in some swing districts die hard right wing voting officials did it, too. You would only need to flip a few crucial counties, not all counties in a state, to turn a state red. It sure looked that way on the map.

[quote]Meadows, Biggs, Jordan, Gohmert, DeSantis, Gaetz, S. King, Issa, Nunes, Poe, Gowdy, Conoway, and several other House Republicans, are manuvering to stop Mueller through an effort to fire Rosenberg.

Funny how that came right after Congress confirmed that traitorous piece of shit Alfa Bank employee to serve under Rosenstein, huh?

It seems pretty obvious that having a trackable vote only works in the voters favor. Votes can be manipulated whether counted by a computer or by hand (and there's no way they're going to count by hand). At least if a voter can track their own votes if an instance came up, there would be a system in place for voters to at least have an opportunity to see if there was discrepancy.

As it is now it's tough shit, good luck, let the Rethugs steal your vote.

I know computers count them R153. That's why I mentioned markers and paper ballots. Those were hand counted before the computer counting started. We need to go stone age.

And thanks to OP for the new thread. Love the title. The pic makes me angry though cause I hate that look Orange always has on his face.

"Damn the shit fuck, I have had enough. No more golf outings with you lying-ass criminal Trump to receive new instructions and blackmail. Fuck you Putin. Fuck you turtle-looking Mitch McShit. Yes, I love cock. I love black cock. I love old daddies. There, I said it. Fuck all".

I'd be happy to be the ancor for that.^

anchor^

Serious question: Was Wikileaks always a Russian propaganda tool? I never liked Assange, even before all of this shit happened, but I can't tell if he was coopted or he was always on board.

What I find more important is what Rosenstein said. He threw down the gauntlet of patriotism to the Republicans in challenging them to rise above party for their country and not give into the efforts to tear us apart.

Who is the Florida rep implied in the indictment? Does anyone know who the reporter was who released the BLM movement information? Hannity?

The Republicans are bringing up impeaching Rosenstein again because they are shitting bricks after reading that indictment. Mueller knows Russian official names, the fake screen names they used, the specific actions they all took, the computers they were using in the US, the times they logged into those computers, even specific keyword searches they used, and has the bitcoin money trail. If they know that about the Russian actors, imagine what they know about the Americans who worked with them. Tick tock.

Why would I say all that, R159? It's all lies, lies I do declare .. well, other than "criminal Trump" and " Fuck you Putin" and "Mitch McShit" which is my nickname for Elaine.

Otherwise, all true. Isn't it time for commercial yet, Shep?

r163 The journalist was Lee Stranahan.

Hillary WON.

John Schindler gained a lot of credibility in my mind when I encountered this from 2013. He was on MSNBC with Chris Hayes and said this when it was not a commonly expressed opinion. He was correct then and it's borne out. I tend to believe he is also correct today.

[quote] Julian Assange has gotten himself into quite a situation. It’s very clear that WikiLeaks doesn’t have a great deal on money of its own. But WikiLeaks has, in effect, put itself in bed with the Russians at this point. Their point man for the famous Moscow airport press conference, by his own admission, was Israel Shamir who is well known to be linked to Russian intelligence. It is a mistake to view WikiLeaks as an independent entity at this point. I’m sure they were 2010, but at this point, they are not. This has to be viewed in the context of a larger analysis, if you will, with the Russian government and with what WikiLeak’s actual agenda is. WikiLeaks, on its own, has very little power, but they are not functioning on their own at this point. It is not an accident that they’re in Russia.

Remember, this is a quote from 2013!

Why isn’t the media all over issues like r164?

If the tabloids can tell you what’s in clebrities trash and on their voicemail, surely they can tell you what happened in 2016. With receipts.

It’s disgraceful that investigative journalism is not as roubust as it once was. Big media has sucked it all up and diluted it.

Hats off to MSNBC and a few others for trying.

Firing Rosenstein would make them look even more guilty (if that is even possible!) and wouldn't stop anything. They are fucked and know it. It is like they are tied to traintracks and they can see the train heading toward them as they desperately try to free themselves from the ropes before deadly impact.

Best thing to do now is call Mueller and cooperate.

The first one that does it wins!

r171 is correct. There are only a few deals to give out. It's the prisoner's dilemma in Congress.

Kushner wanting the backline to Russia, just days after the inauguration...the gossip about Ivanka and Jared drawing lots for who got to run for President after big daddy...awfully darn confident, just like Zuckerberg's musings of running. Again, I'm feeling Kushner as the bitcoin manipulator and the supposed master at hiding in plain sight...always the slick excuse.

[quote]Firing Rosenstein would make them look even more guilty (if that is even possible!)

Like they care.

Reddit is getting in on the action:

lastoftheromans123 1953 points 6 hours ago

Russia, if you’re listening: we could really use the Trump Pee-Pee tape about now!

permalinkembedsavereportreply [–]JohnTM3 1268 points 4 hours ago

OMG, can you think of the insanity we would have to endure if that thing surfaced? IT WOULD TEAR THIS COUNTRY APART!!!

Are you listening Russians? It will tear us apart...

The only thing I can think of is if some how an investigation of some of the electors could find that they were ineligible to be electors and thus the Electoral College has to re-vote. The other thing I was thinking is that some of the electors themselves insist they were deprived of important information and they consider their votes invalid and want to reconvene. That is the only way and I don't even know whether or not that is feasible from a legal point of view.

OMG, Dana Bash is orange!!!!! (Watching Anderson Cooper)

Stand back bitches, Miss Jill Winebanks has on her Spider Web Brooch on Chris Hayes right now!

Yay Jill! Tuning in now!

R92 & R93, drop dead!

I’m allowed to share my feelings. You can spin this tragedy any way you want, but it’s clear that no one is interested in holding Trump and the Republicans accountable. I’m very sad and very angry that the America of my childhood is gone forever.

Fuck Roger Stone.

That is all.

Litman says Stone is the unnamed person in Mueller indictment.

When they want to get rid of the idiot, the tape will surface. Putin seems to be in complete controll. Can we steal his money...or his oil?

r181 Roger told CNN earlier he can't be that person because he didn't deal with Trump campaign *officials*, only Trump himself.

So..........thanks for telling us you went directly to the man himself?

Very strange statement.

[quote]Firing Rosenstein would make them look even more guilty

Yes, you wouldn’t want to do anything too obvious.

Wow.

In regard to vote hacking, we have a state, Georgia, where the electronic data mysteriously disappeared from a "secure" place in a university when the question of hacked votes came up in court. First of all, we have to get rid of electronic only voting. It's fine to vote on an electronic machine, but it has to kick out a paper receipt (like your ATM) that you can deposit so there is also a paper record. Otherwise it's just Election-Stealing 101......

I still don't understand why anyone thinks the Pee Pee tapes would make any difference to anyone whatsoever. It's not going to change our minds about him and it's certainly not going to make the Deplorables upset.

Are you guys watching Chris Hayes? The Russians got access to the Clinton Campaign analytics. Meaning they could have messed with the direction and data that the Hillary Campaign was relying in order to target voters.

So if Dems turn out for the midterms in the millions, but amazingly they “lose” state after state, what do we then? More hand wringing & protesting?

It’s absurd to think that Trump might ask Putin to stop helping him win elections. Why would he do that?

Anyone think Prez Bone Spurs might just stay in Russia and ask for asylum?

NBC news named Wikileaks and Roger Stone outright. They said their names weren't used but everyone knows it was them. We need more of THIS!

And yes, Hillary WON.

They probably were part of making her campaign think Wisconsin was safe.

Putin has been laughing his ass off at the US for the last two years. Every day he gets a new chuckle.

This is good news. Our justice department is still working for the Constitution. That we do have an obvious problem is becoming clear to people who were just 'too busy' to pay attention. They're paying attention now.

This country has always had problems. Your childhood America was a dream.

No, I don't think Baby Drumpf is going to try to stay with Daddy Put Put. Why? Because he's not scared nor is he worried. He's delusional and he's used to getting his own way. People who have never had to deal with any sort of consequence always feel like they have nothing to worry about.

Maybe these "law and order" type conservatives in the intelligence agencies/FBI/CIA will now see the right has never been about "law and order". EVER. They've been shady as fuck since the late 60's.

Podesta changed his Email password due to spearfishing by Russian hackers cueing him to do so. One would think someone would have advised him in the campaign about being a target and the techniques used by intruders. Or, Podesta has no computer savvy.

More sanctions or admit you're a traitor. Put up or shut up, Trump.

r191 It would also explain how Paul Manafort, who had supposedly quit the campaign by that point, knew exactly which areas of which states Trump should go to in the closing days of the election.

I think it's fair-minded after what we've learned today that the DCCC hacks were also made actionable by the Russians in congressional races. How many seats did the Democrats lose due to cheating and foreign influence?

[quote]what do you think tallies those votes? What do you think is used to track them? What will you be checking to track your vote? It's all hackable at every point where a computer is involved.

That's not quite true. It's hackable only if the computer is connected to an externally-visible network. A computer that isn't connected isn't vulnerable. You could easily set up a system like Washington's where the computers doing the counting aren't connected to the net. The count data are written to an external hard drive, which is then connected to a computer on the network so that everyone can check the results.

With this approach, you'd have the paper trail of the original ballots, you'd have the count on a computer that was never connected to the net, and you'd have the final tally available online. It's not foolproof but it's likely close enough, particularly since the results can be hand-counted and verified.

[quote]Or, Podesta has no computer savvy.

This. Most people, particularly older people, aren't savvy. The number one cause of data loss isn't operating system vulnerabilities; it's social hacking and phishing.

They are fighting for the perv, Jordan but I still hope to see him gone soon. I would love to see him jail.

[quote]The Russians got access to the Clinton Campaign analytics.

I'm not watching Hayes but the obvious question is whether they got read access or write access. In the former case, all they can do is share it with the Trump campaign so that they can better target their strategies. In the latter case, then yes, they could subtly alter the data in some harmful ways.

Roger Stone is back on CNN now and he says he probably is the person in the indictment. (He is).

So if Trump is impeached / indicted/ prosecuted and he does not comply? Or loses 2020 and does not step down, then what? Will he pull a military coup? On Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago some military big shot, an aide to Colin Powell, was worried about the military is likely willing to back Trump!

Unlikely, R202. So far, nobody has targeted him as being one of the abusers. A 20-year-old charge of failing to protect those in his care likely isn't actionable.

The people indicted today are part of the Russian government, yet lowlife Trump still goes to make love to Putin.

r203......Brad Parscale and Jared Kushner.....they even had front cover magazine articles written about their "genius" in being able to target certain voters.

Is the rumor true that Mueller has evidence that Hillary actually won the election because Trump sanctioned Russian interference, also now documented? Buh bye Fat Donnie

R209: Where are you hearing that rumor?

They were so sure they were going to win in those last few days. The frizzled blonde con artist spokeslady was sure of it. She keep repeating “we’re going to win.”

If the courts find Trump & Pence were illegally elected and we're conspirators in doing so, there are no constitutional provisions to have a special re-do election or reconvene the Electoral College or outright install HRC instead. If Trump and Pence are impeached in quick fashion, the Speaker of the House at the time ascends to the Presidency as next in the order of succession, and serves till the completion of the present term.

Our lovely capitol

I guess people are not “getting” the reddit joke.

Yeesh.

[quote]Where are you hearing that rumor?

He made it up. Come on, people; use some common sense.

Exactly right, R212. Regardless of the outcome of the Mueller investigation, Clinton will not be installed as President, nor will Trump's executive orders and judicial appointments be overturned.

All we can do now is try to elect a Democratic House and Senate and then see where the evidence takes us. And if he isn't taken down by the evidence, vote the son of a bitch out in 2020.

Yes 216. And some forget that Trump nominees to the Cabinet and as federal judges are CONFIRMED by Senate votes.

The new SCOTUS will not be confirmed.

No one is saying she would be instituted, just that she actually won

Mark spots the X @

3h

Replying to @TheRickWilson Naming members of the GRU is key. The US has been attacked by a foreign military (GRU is Russian “military” intelligence). As a member of NATO, this could trigger Article 5 (Common Defense).

R219, you are wrong. MANY have been saying EXACTLY that since the election. And it’s understandable, but that line of thinking MUST be shut down within our ranks because it becomes ammunition for the Rethugs. Hillary CANNOT be a “do-over.” And I voted for her. Our Constitution has no provision for this scenario. It sucks. This is why we must WIN. And this is why they must be stopped. No. Matter. What. Rosenstein is ready and willing to go down fighting, and I have no doubt there are literally countless civil servants who are like him. The problem is them stacking the deck — and that is why time is of the essence. The more they stack the deck, the harder it will be to stop them.

I am more than willing to go down fighting too — I am willing to participate in a class action suit over votes being rigged.

One angle I never thought of is this.....is the DOJ also sitting on the truth of the stolen election because of liability and legal exposure? It is their job to protect the government and once they admit it happened, the government obviously not only has severely damaged credibility, but the cost could be hundreds of millions to defend. AND.....it will tie up our best attorneys when we really want them focused on the traitors and prosecuting the biggest RICO case ever. So, we are in quite the pickle, no? I could see how if I worked for DOJ, I would struggle with whether revealing this is in the best interest of our government (if I’m thinking like a lawyer protecting their client).

You are misreading my comments, Mary Jane. Calm down.

If the Dems win and Pelosi becomes Speaker, she will be President in that scenario, R212. She can ask the Senate to approve Hillary as her VP then step down. It could happen. But it won't.

Very telling that Trump has not cancelled, nor will he

R223, that is a great idea. No more far fetched than Homeland or ICE

R221, I wouldn't worry about the DOJ. For one thing, most of the responsibilities for protecting the country in this instance fell on the FBI. More importantly--and this is to condense a million legal treatises into a sentence--you, as a citizen, cannot sue the government or one of its agencies, absent to specific statutory authorization to do so. That's what sovereign immunity is. You can sue individual government employees if they break an established law, but you can't sue governmental agencies themselves.

Anyone know what Fox News is currently covering?

Isn't there a shortcut to that R223? If the Dems take over Congress they could just make HRC be Speaker of the House.

Obviously won't happen but it COULD.

There is no shortcut, no.

I'm sure they found someone with dark skin doing something bad to focus on, R227.

State seats matter. Dem Secretaries of State help ensure a clean voting process. Dem state AGs mean state and regional lawsuits against the fed government. Dem legislatures lessen the threat of a constitutional convention.

The GOP is criticizing Rosenstein for announcing the indictments today while Trump was with the Queen and just before he meets with Putin. But think about it. First, they told Trump, briefed him days ago. So he wasn't blind-sided. Now if you're Rosenstein and Mueller telling him before he meets with Putin is really obligatory. He needs to have the best available information so he can decide how he handles it. He has options. Right now he is probably sitting at his golf resort in Scotland trying to decide WTF to do. My bet is he'll go forward with the meeting. trump could have got on top of this instead of looking guilty as fuck. He could have taken the confidential briefing he received from DOJ, and had his office announce that he had a change of plans and would not be going to meet Putin. Then let them announce the indictments. Not one single Republican except for McCain issued a statement or spoke up about this. The White House statement was all about Trump. Not a word to express outrage over the cyber attack. Russian Intelligence attacked us. Putin needs his ass handed to him.

Yeah, there is R229. They could technically just nominate HRC in as Speaker of the House (if they control the House) and she would be put in. But again, they'd never do it.

[quote] Right now he is probably sitting at his golf resort in Scotland trying to decide WTF to do.

No he isn't. He doesn't decide to do anything. He just does and will continue to do as Daddy Put Put tells him.

R232, I have to say I called it on the last thread (post 512):

"New GOP spin: DOJ timed announcement to disrupt Trump's meeting with Queen! DOJ trying to undermine our alliance with the UK!"

I always like Friday the 13th hit specials. Take them all out

Brian Mast (R-FL) is the congressional candidate who asked Guccifer for stolen data.

Lee Stranahan is the reporter who asked for BLM data. At the time, he worked for Breitbart. He now works for Sputnik, a Russian news agency (all Russian news agencies are ultimately controlled by the Russian govt).

Wow, that is one hell of an indictment.

In September 2016, Florida GOP consultant Aaron Nevins wrote to Guccifer 2.0 to tell the hacker to “feel free to send any Florida based information,” according to the Journal.

Guccifer 2.0 ended up passing Nevins 2.5 gigabytes of stolen documents, including information about Democrats’ get-out-the-vote strategy in Florida and other swing states, the Journal reported. Nevins then posted the documents on his blog, HelloFLA.com, under a pseudonym.

The stolen documents Nevins published on his blog and then passed along to Florida journalists included detailed analyses commissioned by the DCCC of specific Florida districts—reports that revealed how many dependable Democratic voters, likely Democratic voters, and frequent-but-not-committed voters resided in each area.

Nevins was a campaign consultant for Brian Mast

Fuck this "Oh, this can't happen, because it's unprecedented". Blame the Republican Party and punish the fuck out of them instead of declaring that the Democrats have to play nice and by the book.

The Republican party chose to play dirty and it can't be that they are allowed to go on any further. Every single action from the past two years have to be reversed. "Oh, it can't be done, because ... the Constitution! / it's unprecedented! / it will be CHAOS!". FUCK. THAT! That's the Republican's Party's fault and they, and their donors, should be held accountable and prevented from every doing this again!

Criminal behavior should neither be permitted or granted to go on when discovered as being criminal.

There should be a clear sign towards Putin and Russia that his scheme will not go on and cause more harm. The US should lead by example and deal with their Russian intrusion swiftly.

I hear you r240. Especially about us being an example to the world on Russia. But how exactly do you propose it is done? I mean, specifically?

[quote] Fuck this "Oh, this can't happen, because it's unprecedented".

He's the one playing the "unprecedented" game. Time for it to bite him on his big fat ass.

R240 Here here! Well said and abso-fucking-lutely. If the punishments aren't severe, they will do it again. Dismantling everything they have done, reversing it and going after anyone who knew and participated must be done. The first order of business is removing Gorsuck from the SC, nullifying any decision he was apart of, and reviewing those cases.

Remember the tape where Paul Ryan(?) supposedly joked about some congressman(men) on the payroll of Russia? Then Ryan is complicit if he knew and thus should be removed from office.

Streisand 2020

R138, We haven't been told the truth about our history ever, without the rare actions of a Daniel Ellsberg or, we hope, a Robert Mueller.

R150, No. The results will be shocking but liberating for our democracy. Triumphant, even.

I'll be the one holding the sign saying "Sic Semper Tyrannis!"

The repugs were unhappy about something Rosenstein did, that probably breaks his heart.

FYI, after I got the info about Nevins/Mast I looked up Nevins and you see that post I made at R239? That came from an article written in May 2017. Mueller knew LAST YEAR that that Nevin contacted and got info from Guccifer. Yet he & Brian Mast are not indicted.

The FBI should show up in Scotland and arrest Trump for treason. Yes I am serious.

[quote] Especially about us being an example to the world on Russia. But how exactly do you propose it is done? I mean, specifically?

Mueller should be given the task to "clean house". He's the one knowing all the details. Get rid of the corruption and tell the Republican Party they are on very thin ice and better choose their next words and steps very carefully. Of course they will fuck it up and that's when the Democratic Party should lead by example and provide specific strategies.

What must Rosenstein be thinking? He has to sometimes just stare into a mirror and wonder if he's in a nightmare. Things are so far off the rails it seems unreal.

Voting Repug is akin to endorsing treason and being complicit in this hellish situation. Voting 3rd party also. As Steve Schmidt said, its the Dems or bust, bitches.

Who replaces all the indicted members of congress? There should be many.

R252 It will be a mess that takes a lot of time to clean up. We don't need all the seats filled right away. But it will likely be a lot in both chambers. The rot is very deep in the Repug party.

Sorry, if that goes off topic, but we all hear references about conservative think tanks and what sort of vile strategies come from them. What about all the liberal think tanks? Do they exist and what do they come up with? They should be the ones coming up with something that deals with the current, unprecedented corruption problem going on in the Republican Party. They should've been on this the moment Trump was declared POTUS with their Washington insider intel. Don't think tanks do these sort of things (come up with scenarios and strategies) in the first place?

[quote]Anyone think Prez Bone Spurs might just stay in Russia and ask for asylum?

He’s not going to Russia.

[quote] He’s not going to Russia.

But Putin will go back to Russia when he's done in Helsinki. They could fly into the Russian sunset together in Putin's plane.

Self delusion is the only way Trump can cope.

He can't read.

He lacks a proper education.

He doesn't understand the briefs he is reading or having read to him.

The complexity of a job he was only trolling for is mind boggling.

He doesn't have any political or social activity experience.

He does not know who to call on.

He wouldn't know how to even judge the capability of people who come work for him.

His political party is composed of people from another world.

He knows most of them hate him.

He retreats into family.

His wife hates him and he doesn't know if and when she'll turn against him.

His previous work acquaintances soon appear to be running afoul of the law because of what he's done and they've done together.

He is terrified of what may be unearthed.

He wonders how long before it comes to light.

He can only rely on racism.

He cannot hold his own among other leaders.

He relies on Putin to give him shelter.

In return he will launder money for them as in the past.

It's the only way to keep that hidden.

He must continue to do more for the Russians.

He needs to alienate his allies to hide the real reasons why he cannot work with them.

He wishes it were not a democracy.

His has no dreams only greed in his waking hours and nightmares when he sleeps.

R258 you're giving him way too much credit. He doesn't have the capacity to even think about 1/3 of those things you mentioned.

Trump is an adult narcissistic sociopath with Reactive Attachment Disorder. Neither parent bonded with him. His father conflated success and money with love and his mother must have been one of those cold tit monkey mannequins. He is living proof that once a growth period is passed, it is lost forever. If he weren't so powerful and cruel he would be an object of pity.

[quote] And it’s understandable, but that line of thinking MUST be shut down within our ranks because it becomes ammunition for the Rethugs.

Oh, fuck you. I’ve read better legal scholars than you argue quite the opposite, and certainly the case if Hillary got more votes. You’re always on these threads panicking if someone said Hillary rightfully won, “shutting it down”.

Trump was 1/2 hour late for the G-7 meeting.

Trump was 1/2 hour late for NATO

Trump kept the Queen of England waiting

What you want to bet he’ll be early for Putin?

^Yep.

R249 I agree.

The fantasies about Hillary being installed and Gorsuch being removed are comforting, but neither will happen. They’re as far fetched as repug theories that Mueller’s going to indict Obama and Hillary any day now. We gotta temper our expectations and VOTE the assholes out. That’s the quickest, most effective strategy we have. Join the resistance, sign up for Indivisible, get involved on every level.

[quote] They’re as far fetched as repug theories that Mueller’s going to indict Obama and Hillary any day now.

Bullshit. And there has been an orchestrated campaign to push this angle — particularly in the Tad Devine / Sanders “economic anxiety’s camp that insists that Hillary “lost”, in tandem with the kompromat-compromised GOP — since November 2016.

If you were a true patriot you would be glad for any pushback, and if you were a true patriot you would be outraged that the legally elected president is not in the Oval Office. Ergo, you either supported Bernie in the primary and “reluctantly” voted Clinton and are violently trembling due to your cognitive dissonance struggle, or you’re posting from Veles, Macedonia.

[quote] We gotta temper our expectations and VOTE the assholes out.

OK, but the two things are not mutually exclusive. You can both work very hard to ensure that our fellow citizens vote the fuckers out AND still harbor a distant but persistent hope that the woman who was rightfully chosen President of the United States be allowed to assume the office to which she was duly elected.

Trump and the the Repukes participated in an unprecedented act of treason that resulted in a massive fraud on the United States. These felons, traitors, and thugs overturned the will of the people to install the agent of a foreign government as the chief executive. It is an entirely reasonable position to want to restore our government to the person who should properly be heading it -- especially after seeing what an utter and complete disaster the alternative turned out to be.

Who is this demented Mueller fan? Have you picked out a way to dispatch yourself when this dog and pony show comes to naught?

What a terrifying mental world you must inhabit.

Caftans, earrings.

The Democrats themselves would never allow Clinton to assume the presidency. Remember those awful recriminations by Schummer, et.al., blaming her for the loss? By doing so, they pretty much alienated those of us who supported her from the start. I think the old guard will strive to keep business as usual, including tr🐖mp in the presidency, and it will be up to the younger Democrats to clean it up. Schummer and to an extent Pelosi disgust me.

Hillary WON.

For those of us who don’t get Fox News, can someone recap how they’ve been distracting both their audience and themselves from the indictments? One or two sentences would be enough. TIA.

If it is indeed established that the voting results were hacked that would mean some conservative senators didn't win their election race and, as a result, are as illegitimate in their position of power as Donald Trump. The notion that they are allowed to stay in power with this being known adds insult to the injury.

Fuck protocol. To me a do-over, or reboot of the government before Trump took over is the most logical and easiest step to maintain order in this criminal, chaotic situation. Hand it over to Obama and the Democrats now and let them figure things out how to proceed. The control of this country needs to be taken away from the Republican Party ASAP.

Of course Hillary won, but it will be hard to prove since some of the key states that might have gotten hacked already destroyed their voting data *cough* Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, and Georgia * cough* Without those states, you cannot mount an investigation that could determine how many votes Clinton actually got.

[bold]Also[/bold], I think Hillary is too disgusted and disillusioned with Washington DC to ever comeback to politics. She was treated horribly by young white Democrats, and her own party (Biden, Schummer, Obama, Franken, Brazile) threw her under the bus even though all of them were aware there was possible Russian collusion. After 35 years of experiencing misogyny, she has probably had enough.

[quote] Of course Hillary won, but it will be hard to prove

Why does it have to be proven though? The votes were hacked by Russia. Trump refuses to take appropiate actions against the country that hacked the voting system that put him in power. People still need some official judge to state the obvious?

Simple, no court or [bold]men[/bold] in congress will push to place the female Democrat as president unless there is irrefutable proof that she won the tally.

I also don't see Clinton accepting a reduced presidency that only spans 1 year. Any trial against Trump could potentially last months if not years.

I agree that although installing Clinton as president and removing or suspending Trump's judicial appointments is unrealistic—especially given that Republican partisans currently control what mechanisms of government those processes would have to go through (Congress, Supreme Court)—we should keep holding them up as proper goals, at least, if the hacking did in fact change the outcome of the election. Enough with the unaccountability—failing to hold officials accountable for crimes just keeps pushing us towards unconstitutional government. Enough with the hand-wringing about "chaos" or "tearing the country apart"—chaos and strife are coming from secretive government supported by a deluded base, not from the proper application of law after a thorough, sober investigation of the facts. We have to at least push this ideal.

Dum Dum Trump. He could have brought Miss Lindsey with him to witness the dialogue with Putin.

Putin would be enchanted. Trump would declare great success. Miss Lindsey would proclaim how tough Trump was at negotiating, how Putty was like puddy before Trump, and great deals were reached.

When back, Miss Lindsey would receive unlimited camera time before all the begging networks. The anchors and talking heads would believe everything Miss Lindsey says, because she is so principled, bi-partisan, and an expert maverick for truth and country.

Trump would be seen as having a most extraordinary summit of profoundly positive consequences.

And Miss Lindsey, Queen on Queen, could tell how grand her fabulous session was with Elizabeth II.

People are forgetting that being indicted doesn't mean a trial end. The court fight could last months if not years. Indictments are more likely to have an immediate effect in congress (congressmen resigning, getting arrested, or losing in November due to exposure).

Our best bet is for Democrats to win in November but not have Trump (or Pence) fully removed until January 2019 when they assume power. In that scenario, the Democratic speaker of the House would ascend the presidency. Once in power they can delegitimize the Trump presidency and could potentially dissolved all his court picks.

Either way, Democrats must win congress in November, that way they can tame some of the damage if a Republican president is still in the White House.

The U.S. is under continuing attack by our #1 foreign adversary, who wants to disrupt our elections and destroy democracy, and the president of the United States is helping him.

WHY ARE WE NOT IN THE STREETS?

It will probably take all of 2019 and some of 2020 in order to sort all this chaos through the court system. It appears that a high volume of politicians will be taken to court for collusion. This is why a Clinton presidency would most likely be out of the question. A decision on the legitimacy of the Trump presidency wouldn't come out until months of delivery. Probably pushing any decision until the end of 2019 or even 2020. There is no way Clinton would take a one year presidency when the next election is in 2020. For example, Michael Cohen's court cases will probably last until early 2019. Any court case against an entire administration will take months upon months to resolve. Hilary ain't taking anybody's crumbs.

If Democrats win the House and pressure the Trump administration to vacate in January, Nancy could take over the presidency or the Dems could name a temporary Speaker of The House (it could be anybody, even Hillary) so that person could ascend the presidency.

That is the only way I can see things panning out.

[quote]For those of us who don’t get Fox News, can someone recap how they’ve been distracting both their audience and themselves from the indictments?

The headline graphic Hannity used last night while discussing the Russian indictments was "Hillary Server Scandal."

I hope Hannity gets indicted.

UK can protest DJT on short notice, and most looked and spoke like ordinary citizens, many with families, and a lot of women. There was no thuggery and masses of obesity

FOX News is probably still claiming the Thai boys are trapped in the cave.

My sister lives there for work and she said people were ducking out of the office all day to run to the protests, then come back and they were in a jubilant mood. Even the shopkeeper in her neighborhood where she buys her scones asked if she went to the demonstrations. They ALL hate Trump. hundreds of thousands of people, and no incidents, no rioting, they just wanted to let that fat fuck know. He said he felt "very unwelcome" in London. Good. he ought to see how the rest of the UK feels. They were demonstrating outside his gold Resort in Turnberry too. Rotten fucker. Traitor. Traitor. Traitor. Let's get comfortable with that word. And Liar. We need to use that one more too. I'd love to see him arrested in Scotland while he's golfing. The FBI doesn't even have to go. They can pick up the phone I'm sure Scotland Yard would be happy to help.

I watched the opening block of Hanity last night to see what the president sees. Hanity’s position is that the indictments are of Russians not Americans and therefore it is true that Americans are not guilty of anything and the investigation is over...unless Mueller wants to look at some Democratic servers.

I don't understand WHY Russians would risk getting caught while hacking the voter registration of not just one but 30 states that we know of so far, unless they were able to manipulate the voter rolls in a way that helped Trump win the presidency. It is beyond me why officials are still claiming that it not influence the outcome of the election, when it absolutely did. There is no other reason why they hacked the voter registrations. And I am sick and tired of people pretending that nothing happened.

I realize that officials are afraid that disclosing this would lead to absolute chaos and riots in the streets, but they cannot presume that we are that stupid.

[quote] WHY ARE WE NOT IN THE STREETS?

This X 10,000. I've been wondering the same thing for the better part of the last 20 months. Our country was invaded and attacked in a way that guts the core of our democracy. Without ever firing a shot, our government has been taken over by a hostile foreign power, and the puppet that Putin installed is advancing Russian interests over American interests.

We should be in the streets until this is resolved in a way that swiftly punishes the guilty.

Hey r261? Fuck. YOU. Bitch.

If you disagree with me, then say it like a big girl. Second, you’re quite stupid. I’m not “that poster” and you embarrass yourself with false accusations. Third, pleeeeeeaaaassse, post for me all the legal scholars writing articles on “do-overs” for stolen elections, umkay? I would love to read an actual legal remedy for a stolen presidency. But unless and until I do read an actual legal scholar giving us that path, I do feel strongly that talk of a mother fucking do-over weakens us. So YOU fuck off.

I do not oppose Hillary as many others do, the Presidency was won by her, and if we could legally install her I would entertain it for sure. But right now, I have yet to hear a path that uses our LAWS — you know, the rules? — to make that happen. Because the Republicans cheated doesn’t mean that we in turn, throw out all the laws too — no, that won’t happen, and it CANNOT happen. How can we say they’re wrong for cheating, and then turn right around and cheat back? Nope, that’s stupid, and we can still win without doing that. But you (and others like you) keep getting pissed because you’re mistaking my (and people like me) insistence on following LAW with passivity. I’m just as angry as you!!!!!!!!!!! I have no desire to play nice, or play fair at all! I want to come for them HARD, and as others said, justice must be swift and hardcore. We need to send a message, we have to ANSWER, know what I’m saying? I’m all for kicking their asses in every way possible. But what is the best solution for that?? Win elections!!!!!!! So please, post a list of legal scholars who lay out your grand do-over plan where we just make up laws as we go. I have NOT yet read anything telling us how to legally put the true winner into office, and I believe I have not read that because it does not exist. I’ll be the first to admit I’m wrong, but can you do the same? I doubt it, it takes true balls to do that.

If you’re such a god damn patriot, why are you attacking your own side, huh? That’s what irks me about you more than anything else. You eat your own.

The English are in the streets because they don’t have FOX NEWS poisoning their minds. It’s really that simple. They are showing us what it could and should be like, a society that doesn’t allow propaganda.

R289, the English are too smart for Fox News. Fox could never succeed there except for maybe on a comedy channel.

Exactly

It was disconcerting to see Hanity describe the investigative actions that led to the 100 or so charges against military intelligence officers who attacked America’s democracy as a witch hunt.

We should not be attacking each other. All are outraged. All are fed up. All are disgusted.

R290, You do know The Sun, the most popular news rag in the UK, is owned by Rupert Murdoch.

Want to get to FOX, organize and declare a sustained boycott of companies that advertise on Fox, including all the pharmaceuticals, big insurance, processed foods, cosmetics, investment & banking corporates, etc. That can work if enough people participate and it is widely distributed on social media. ALWAYS, ALWAYs, target the pocketbook. Fox's ad fees could plummet to lower rates than their competitors.

Hannity is not a credible person. Years ago, told by someone who knew him well, he makes fun of the gullibility of his audiences, and will qualify his messaging in social settings, and act friendly to personalities, face to face, he bashes relentlessly on the air.

I think Hillary will return to DC with a red hot vengeance after Bill croaks.

Having a "conservative" oriented network is not the real issue. Conservative-type newscasters have been around for many decades. Even CNN and MSNBC have several.

Fox is really something else--GOP propaganda TV

It is the lies, propaganda, hate-stirring, personality worshiping, and the grossly unbalanced coverage, that's the problem.

This never seemed to get the traction it deserved, r243. It gets brought up every so often and then.....

Then why have we allowed it? I have a laundry list I want a Democratic Congress to tackle:

Remedy for stolen elections

Remove Gorsuch

Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine

Remove the Electoral College

Those are just my appetizers.....

R299 I’d also go after Citizens United

Hang any citizen who has plotted with, or helped cover up collusion with Russia.

Give the GOP the equivalent of a football Death Penalty—10 years before they can legally organize and put forth candidates at any election level where they cheated.

The removal of Citizens United should be the FIRST item of business. Hell, take ALL donations and private money out of our elections and we might actually start voting the right people in.

Are there ANY Dems talking about Citizens United? I know it’s not sexy anddoesnt get ratings, but these are issues I want to see addressed.

R279, we've been in the streets, repeatedly. If the Republicans go after Mueller or Rosenstein, protests will be triggered.

If Trump committed TREASON, you can rest assured he will be removed from office immediately.....they can not, and will not, allow him to stay in office for 6 mo to a year or longer to allow an impeachment to proceed.....If Mueller has proof Trump committed treason or espionage, I guarantee you that he will be arrested regardless of protocol. It will then go to the SC, where Mueller will present enough proof to convince the SC that Trump should remain in custody as a national security threat. Remember, we are not talking about some bungled break in of the competitors file cabinet.

[quote] Are there ANY Dems talking about Citizens United?

The only Dem I know who repeatedly and consistently talks about Citizens United is Senator Jon Tester of Montana. Others may, but I hear it from him a lot. He has also proposed a constitutional amendment to reverse the decision.

Cancel your cable provider if they carry fox.

How many votes would it need to reverse Citzens United? I mean it feels almost like a joke to even pretend that any elected official would shut the door in the Kochs' and Mercers' faces. So much fucking corruption.

[quote] His wife hates him and he doesn't know if and when she'll turn against him

There is no evidence of this. Just because she doesn’t want to always hold his hand doesn’t mean she hates him. She mostly does hold his hand (except for when he is in front of her, blocking her way). She’s been with him since the 1997 or 1998, even though they didn’t get married until 2005. That’s twenty years.

I think she’s used to doing what she wants when she wants to do it and that’s why she seems unhappy. She wants to lunch with friends and go shopping on 5th Avenue. She’s no Einstein. People claiming she’s “trolling” Trump are projecting. She’s not that smart. Wearing a jacket saying “I Really Don’t Care - Do U?” on her way to meet refugee children as First Lady of the United States isn’t “trolling her husband.” It’s being a fucking bitch and a rich asshole who cares for nothing but herself.

She’s an empty vessel, just like Donald. He requires adulation to feel temporarily fulfilled. She requires dresses, jewelry, Loubutin shoes. She requires hairdressers, makeup artists, famous designers. She’s too fucking stupid to put on that ridiculous yellow princess dress to be signaling Beauty and the Beast.

How many times has she pushed Trump’s hand away versus holding his hand? It’s minuscule. 99.9% of the time she’s holding his hand or smiling next to him. So she gets pissed at him every once in a while. All married couples do. That doesn’t mean she hates him, she’s trolling him, she’s really a sympathetic creature who desperately wants to escape from Trump and join the resistance.

She’s just a spoiled, entitled cunt who’s been treated as if she’s been i a golden egg in an incubator for the past 20 years. It’s YOU she’s trolling, not Trump.

Because. She. Really. Doesn’t. Care.

R266 funny... I always associate the person who keeps trying to control and steer the conversation from the fact that Hillary won with a Bernie supporter. I don't know why when I usually associate trolls with the Boris types but for some reason or other whenever I see the, "Anti-Hillary Won/Do NOT talk about Hillary winning" comments I always associate it with a demented Bernie fan. I don't know why.

[quote]Also, I think Hillary is too disgusted and disillusioned with Washington DC to ever comeback to politics. She was treated horribly by young white Democrats, and her own party (Biden, Schummer, Obama, Franken, Brazile) threw her under the bus even though all of them were aware there was possible Russian collusion. After 35 years of experiencing misogyny, she has probably had enough.

I don't agree with this. Everything about Hillary's character shows shes got an unfaltering love for and belief in our country (which I often think is to her detriment). One of the biggest things I think was misunderstood about her (and probably hated for as well) was her belief in doing the right thing.

The House and Senate can expel members. Even if "impeachment is off the table," which it probably isn't, Nancy Pelosi should call loudly for us to find out who that treasonous Congressperson is (probably Brian Mast) and move for immediate expulsion. Say it loud, say it proud: GOP=TREASON, again and again and again.

Charles Pierce fueling the flames of my hope: "There's so much more coming. You can feel the hoofbeats of the horseman and the baying of the hounds behind every syllable of this indictment."

It’s unfortunate the Republicans in Congress are making excuses for and enabling treason. Russian interference in Presidential or Congressional elections is significant, but to them it’s no big deal because they won. Trump is a Puttin puppet, and I am ashamed to be an American

Legal path to HRC taking office?

Dems take Congress. Impeach or Arrest Drumpf and Penis. Nominate HRC as Speaker of the House. She takes her rightful place.

Will that ever happen? Absolutely not but it is a legal path. It's not the legal path for overturning and righting a stolen election but it is a legal path to put the rightful winner in to the office.

But again, it will never happen that way.

You can't just nominate random people to be Speaker of the House. They have to be a U.S. Representative.

R313 to that end I thoroughly enjoyed watching Tara Setmayer unload on that thing that dripped out of McCain's dick.

They should replace her with Tara.

Start watching at about 10:54 mark.

[quote]Serious question: Was Wikileaks always a Russian propaganda tool? I never liked Assange, even before all of this shit happened, but I can't tell if he was coopted or he was always on board.

As I dimly recall, no. They certainly weren't working transparently working for the Kremlin 10-12 years ago. My guess is something happened between 2005 and now to flip Assange. (who frankly was always a mercenary asshole)

[quote]...we are not talking about some bungled break in of the competitor’s file cabinet..

Lol maybe we are.

Wrong, R315. Speaker of the House can be anyone.

[quote]You can't just nominate random people to be Speaker of the House. They have to be a U.S. Representative.

No, they don't. Get your facts straight.

Before Trump stole the election from Hillary, he stole the Republican nomination from one of 16 men. Which of those men would have been the legitimate Republican candidate?

I wish the investigation would take a look at New Hampshire. We know there was dark money operating up there, with at least one oligarch in the mix. The real question is if primary vote totals were tampered with.

Assange/Wikileaks isn't working with Russians for ideological reasons. Assange is a bitter bitch because the Obama administration (and Hillary Clinton) went after him hard after the Chelsea Manning leaks in 2010. He doesn't care that any Republican administration would have done the same (and in fact the GOP back then said he had blood on his hands as well). Had Obama/Clinton hailed him as a hero and were he not put on the run, you can bet your ass he would have happily interfered on her behalf in 2016. His connections now are classic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" (even if the enemy of your enemy would also be your enemy if given the chance).

Of course I don't blame Assange for being bitter that he was targeted for leaks that demonstrated just how fucking corrupt and inept the Bush administration was in its handling of pretty much everything military associated. I still think that release was vital and belongs with the Pentagon Papers as heroic acts in US history. But I'm not blind to the fact that Assange himself is a piece of shit.

From the website of the Clerk of the House of Representatives:

[quote] Article I, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states, "The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers."

[quote] [bold] Although the Constitution does not require the Speaker to be a Member of the House, all Speakers have been Members. [/bold]

[quote] When a Congress convenes for the first time, each major party conference or caucus nominates a candidate for Speaker. Members customarily elect the Speaker by roll call vote. A Member usually votes for the candidate from his or her own party conference or caucus but can vote for anyone, whether that person has been nominated or not.

[quote] To be elected, a candidate must receive an absolute majority of the votes cast—which may be less than a majority of the full House because of vacancies, absentee Members, or Members who vote "present." If no candidate receives the majority of votes, the roll call is repeated until a majority is reached and the Speaker is elected.

And, it is not like they would be plucking some random janitor off the street to be the Speaker and potentially assume the Presidency. Instead, they would be electing as Speaker the person who won the most votes in the last Presidential election and who would have taken office rightfully had the traitors on the other side not colluded with an enemy of the United States to throw the election to the orange dotard.

Exactly, R323.

I hate when people spout off offering definitive answers to something they know shit about.

[quote]And, it is not like they would be plucking some random janitor off the street to be the Speaker

But they could if they wanted to!

If the Dems retake the house, and Nancy Pelosi becomes speaker, then she becomes President if/when Trump and Pence go. She can then choose her own VP. Who could be Hillary Clinton. Nancy could then resign, Hillary becomes president. Nancy could then rerun for her old seat.

[quote] Serious question: Was Wikileaks always a Russian propaganda tool?

Yes.

One of the first — if not the first — reports from WikiLeaks gave transcripts of phone calls between US diplomatic personnel in Ukraine and their role in trying to replace Putin’s puppet as president of Ukraine. Where do you think that information came from? Russian secret service, who was recording the phone calls.

The female diplomat involved in this event was on Maddox the other night. Her name is Victoria Nuland

We were meddling in Ukraine’s political elections. Manafort was meddling on one side and US diplomatic personnel were meddling on the other side.

This is why Putin targeted our election.

Again, R325 they can bypass all that.

But of course they're not going to.

Sorry for spellcheck error. Victoria Nuland was on Maddow the other night, not Maddox.

And Pelossi wouldn't just be able to give HRC the VP. It would have to be approved by Congress so the easiest way would actually be to make HRC the Speaker of the House. But again, not going to happen.

We did not meddle in Ukraine. Manafort, for 10+ years at the behest of putin sought to divide Ukraine. He exploited linguistic divisions(Russian speakers vs Ukrainian speakers in Ukraine) to do so, like the Russians now do with race in the US.

Ukraine wanted membership in the EU and NATO. Putin wants control of oil, oil routes, and a pipeline. He also wants a Russian empire.

Revealed this morning in the WaPo that Maryland's voting system outsourced to a firm that's owned by a Russian oligarch. Last month in the primaries, 80K provisional ballots had to be cast because anybody registering via DMV didn't get entered into the system. A perfect "dry run" to exclude voters from the rolls for other states to follow.

Has anyone seen this? Taken from a different forum:

[quote]Maryland’s entire elections system is run by a firm whose primary investor is a Russian “tycoon ... seen by many as the high priest of oligarchy who paved the way for today’s [Russian] society of a few hundred super-wealthy haves and tens of millions of have-nots: a democracy in name only, with the rich pulling the strings and the rest wondering what might have been.” He is the eighth wealthiest man in Russia (thanks to buying up public assets for a pittance back in the day) and was on the list of individual Russians considered for US sanctions.

[quote]To save you Googling it, Hillary Clinton beat the Unpresident by a historically huge margin in Maryland. But the fact that ANY state is using elections software from a corrupt Russian billionaire with deep ties to Putin is UNACCEPTABLE. And I wonder how many other states are similarly compromised.

r321, Bernie Sanders.

Serious question, (although possible naive),for R304 or anybody who might know the answer....

["If Trump committed TREASON, you can rest assured he will be removed from office immediately.....they can not, and will not, allow him to stay in office..."]

WHO, specifically, removes him? "they can not...allow him" -THEY being who? Is there an actual person, (or group of people) above or equal to The President who has the power to do this? Trump has already blatantly committed crimes right out in the open, and statements like these are constantly being made. But who calls the police to arrest and handcuff him? I don't think a situation like this with a currently sitting "President" has ever occurred, (even close to one) so maybe nobody truly knows???

Perhaps I'm just plain ignorant on the matter. If so, I apologize. But if somebody reading knows the answer, please educate me. Thanks.

This seems to be the right-wing narrative emerging (today at least): "So Russia tried to meddle in our election. We know they've been trying that for decades. We've done the same to them. The real issue is that Obama didn't take any steps to stop them in the 2016 election and HIllary and the Dems were too stupid to protect their servers. In any case, Trump has nothing to do with it."

R321 is correct. The Russians helping Trump was going on during the 2016 GOP primaries. They were also helping the Bernie Sanders insurgency on social media. They were a big force in stirring crowds to Bernie's rallies. Russia was also involved with BLM agitation and the right-wing militias that descended on Charlottesville, all via social media..

Beyond Russian intrusion, the cable media was covering Trump 24/7 from the get-go. He received a massive amount of free TV that was not afforded to other candidates. Morning Joe allowed Trump to call-in almost daily, while Joe and Mika acted star-struck. Every tweet Trump delivered was presented and discussed for hours by the cable media. Every rally Trump had was covered fully by cable media. Was a town hall by Marco Rubio, for example, covered in this kind of way?

Hillary was highly qualified. Though one may not like them, the GOP candidate field, other than Trump, was loaded with seasoned current and former Governors and Senators, most with solid name recognition with those that keep up with politics. While Hillary is the biggest victim of Russian intrusion and conspiracy, it went beyond her and started early. The plans for all this were hatched in Moscow in 2013.

Then the right-wing narrative is full of lies and omissions. Obama tried to issue a joint statement about Russian meddling with Congress, and Mitch refused to cooperate. And Trump certaintly did, at the very least, court support from the Russians who's been propping him up financially for decades.

I don't believe the Russians made much difference in the primaries, however. Trump steamrolled those jokers. There was no way any of them was going to make a showing against this ruthless master reality show host, not with the current Republican base/audience.

r334....Congress....both Senate and House, the SC, and top law enforcement...the FBI, CIA, etc...... You can claim "congress wont do shit, theyre complicit, etc......but once evidence is produced it becomes a totally different animal. There will still be a few nuts screaming of a witch hunt (Trump, Nunes, Jordan, etc), but a good portion that are just going along at this point will turn on a dime when it comes to National Security, Treason, etc. Once it becomes clear Trump and his minions are complicit and conspired with Putin, then all bets are off. Right now they can hide behind the rhetoric because there has not been irrefutable evidence presented publicly. Even a good portion of the deplorables will turn if its proven Trump was in cahoots with Putin. Right now its just a game for a lot of them, when things turn serious, its a different story.

R335, is that the Fox News narrative, or just other "right-wingers"?

Because as far as I know, there has not even been sincere acknowledgment by Fox, let alone the White House, that the program of Russian interference even happened, for sure.

In any case, doesn't admitting it was real toss out the "witch hunt" bullshit his fatness was peddling just yesterday? Even after being briefed on the new indictments!!

[quote]While Hillary is the biggest victim of Russian intrusion and conspiracy, it went beyond her and started early. The plans for all this were hatched in Moscow in 2013.

I recall a theory that Russia was planting a bunch of seeds early on, partially as a personal vendetta against HRC. I can't remember where the theory came from but it had to do with planting a virus on Weiner's laptop which supposedly gave them access to later on plant Huma's emails on to Weiner's computer. Huma has always maintained that she never once used his computer to access her emails. How many spouses, especially in their positions do that?

R321, and to add to R336 ...

I wrote about this on another thread. The GOP candidate who was originally expected to be the nominee was Jeb Bush. Rachel did a show on this, at least a year ago, now. It was a 20 min opening segment about why Jeb's campaign and how Jeb's campaign seemed to self-destruct before it even started. It had to do with Jeb's visit to Poland, and how Russia was able to turn a snafu to it's advantage and suddenly released a batch of fake news stories about Jeb, precisely one or two days before Trump's ride down the escalator. They did the same thing with Ted Cruz just as he was creeping up on the polls about to eclipse Trump in delegates when those stories fake news stories were released about his dad responsible for JFK and all those affairs on the side Cruz was supposedly having. So Putin targeted Trump long before 2016. Putin's hatred of Hillary came second.

I'm looking forward to his next verbal fumble. It might not be THE big one, but I expect a sizeable one this week. Too many stars are aligned, and mostly aligned by him.

^^sorry about my typos and run-ons. Using an old laptop.

r340....its "The Carolina Conspiracy".....there is a hacker that supposedly spilled the beans on what was going on.....and IT IS under Muellers purview and is being investigated.

R316 I watched that clip last night. Thanks for posting.

Trump has not even articulated any objectives for his meeting with Putin! It’s embarrassing and he will just say Putin is a great guy and he believes his assurances that Russians did not meddle. It’s the US Congress that is enabling treason, and they will rue the day

R345 I love how Tara wouldn't back down to that Thing's attacks. I also loved how she straight up told the Thing when the Thing tried to pin her into a corner and say, "Are you telling me you're not happy about the fruits of Orange? ie Supreme Court Justices, etc."

And Tara flat out said to her with moral superiority, I might add, "Absolutely not. It's not worth it."

[quote]WHO, specifically, removes him? "they can not...allow him" -THEY being who? Is there an actual person, (or group of people) above or equal to The President who has the power to do this?

Is there a branch equal to the President? Why yes... it's supposed to be The House and Senate and the Supreme Court. But they obviously currently have no plans to do shit about it.

Trumpers are going to keep coming unglued. The shit coming is going to rock their world. Buckle up buttercups.

[quote] We did not meddle in Ukraine

We certainly did, whether you like it or not. Manafort was good at his job. He got the Putin’s guy elected. The US didn’t want Ukraine to have Putin’s guy in place so we were meddling to get rid of him. The diplomats were specifically talking about this — and that’s why Putin developed Wikileaks. To report negative things about the US. He managed to hack the phones of embassy personnel. Of course we were trying to get rid of Putin’s guy in Ukraine. Would you want Putin’s guy to stay in charge? I wouldn’t. What do you think we were doing? Throwing tea parties?

Putin has been running rings around us for quite a few years. He’s a high ranking counter intelligence officer. He didn’t get his position by being Mr Nice Guy. He kills journalists, former spies, diplomats. He’s not shy about it. He just issues the usual denial. “What you people, crazy? I dont do bad things. I am democratically elected world leader.”

Our diplomatic service (aka our intelligence agencies) were devastated when those transcripts were released. We insulted allies as not being ardent enough in Ukraine regime change. Oops.

Putin is devious, he’s a strongman, he’s a mob guy who orders hits in his country and around the world. He’s also very smart. He got Donald Trump elected. When those results were coming in on election night, I said “This isn’t right. Something very wrong is happening here.” I knew there was tampering, but didn’t know how. Now I know. They suppressed millions of votes by kicking people off voter rolls in swing states around the country. It worked just as well as actual machine tampering.

Funny how Putin privatized the take over of Crimea using American mercenaries.

[quote]Trump has not even articulated any objectives for his meeting with Putin!

During his nauseating press conference at Chequers with PM May, he was put on the spot by a sharp hack about what he would ask of Putin.

So as not to look like a lickspittle who won't criticise his Russian host in a trashy tabloid, he mentioned issues he would raise with Putin: Ukraine, Crimea, poisonings in the UK, interference in US elections.

Thus he's on record as to what he'll bring up. Not, of course, that that makes the slightest bit of difference to anything Trump ever does. Tomorrow is a new day, a new face, and a new set of shameless bullshit.

R350 Great post! Thank you. You should re-post that every once in awhile when necessary.

It must often be pointed out how Trump deflected Chris Wallace’s accusing Putin of being a murderer with something like “Don’t think that politicians over here haven’t been so guilt free.”

R350 Wikileaks was created in 2006, nylands phone call was 2014.

Sure, putin time traveled to create Wikileak.

Good for Jake Tapper and CNN:

Oops, it was the WH that canceled, not CNN. It SHOULD have been CNN.

[quote] He then attacked CNN’s Jeff Zucker tweeting, “Remember, it was Little Jeff Z and his people, who are told exactly what to say, who said I could not win the election in that ‘there was no way to 270’ (over & over again) in the Electoral College. I got 306! They were sooooo wrong in their election coverage. Still hurting!”

He is a lunatic. He cannot let go of the election. His "victory" (fake and false though it is) is everything to him. He brought it up in the press conference with Theresa May when he talked about Hillary Clinton -- he cannot stop referring to it. Which will make it all more delicious when Mueller and Co. take it away from him and expose him for the cheat and traitor that he is.

It's as if he keeps defending the legitimacy his victory even when it isn't challenged. I wonder why.

What happens if Trump dies in the near future? Since day one, we've joked about his lack of physical fitness. I could also see some rogue in the intelligence community (or Putin's associates) considering an orchestrated assassination. A Trump death means he'd be out of power, albeit with the frustrating aspect of not facing the full consequences. Can we depend on the investigation going the distance even after death, or would there be pressure to wrap it up?

Because he is an adult with RAD and has to constantly validate himself.

People focus on his narcissistic sociopathology, but the real key is lack of attachment to his mother and father.

He is permanently fucked up.

R360, I want him to suffer and then die. You know that politician that the Russians poisoned and he became all deformed. I want that to happen first and then that Trump die of embarrassment.

To those asking why we aren't in the streets? We are. Have you not noticed the constant protests for the last two years. And, honestly, when would we? I see the protests that go on for weeks in other countries, like Ukraine, but I always wonder if none of the have jobs? Does the whole country just shut down? How did those protesting the Vietnam war endlessly afford to eat and travel? We'd have to shut down the entire country to protest at the level that would even be noticeable in a country as large as ours. And, it helps that the media doesn't bother to cover the protests except as a three minute segment on the news before they start talking about a fucking Kardashian. I just don't see the protests mattering. We need to boycott. Those are what works in this country. Money.

Is there any group that is planning an ongoing, permanent protest that people can join when they can? Like a roving band of protestors, one in each state, that never stops protesting. That would work. I think all these planned protests are too organized. They tell the cops and get permission beforehand to stand in a certain park or wherever. That's not the kind of protesting that got the president's and Congress's attention during Vietnam. We need to become revolutionary and take to the streets in unanticipated mobs that just keep growing and allow for people to join and leave without having to schedule their life around it because the truth is many of us do not have that kind of freedom with our time.

Some guy on the BBC’s Dateline London today put it best: “He’s a narcissistic salesman with a personality disorder.”

Yes suffering and humiliation please!

and penniless.....he must be stripped of all assets.

And Ivanka too. Don't forget about Ivanka.

I would actually be quiet pleased if and when Jared exposes all of them in an effort to save his own ass.

Thank goodness you all get where I'm coming from. I want the full humiliation conga, culminating with a permanently discredited legacy. What I'd really love is for the Trump Tower to become the world's largest sanctuary for refugees. I'm just nervous that someone could try to prevent justice.

For people who keep bringing up that the Obama administration did not do enough regarding the Russian interference: We don’t know how much cover up the GOP did for the Russians. Look at Mitch McTurtle and his donations from Russian oligarchs. They’re the ones who look pretty crooked right now.

If their new line of defense is -"Russians have always tried to meddle. We do it too" Then we should scream back about "well this time they were successful and we should never back down."

If we are a rule of law nation then we must install the rightful winner, nullify all of the decisions and judges nominated by the perp and prosecute everyone involved. Fingers crossed we take out the Kochs, Adelson, and Mercers.

It may be a fantasy and may never happen but in a just world it would and must happen.

Only guilty people blame others for their own actions

I am sure Sick Rudy will spin this as not an issue at all, since it has nothing to do with the President and he committed no crimes

Trump blames Obama for not doing anything, but what is HE doing about it NOW?

Calling out Obama for his weak response is fair game. He screwed up. But Deplorables hold the presidency, what's their excuse for not doing anything? Their president is Putin's bitch.

Pres Bone Spurs brings up Hillary and the election so much because he KNOWS he did not win it. He KNOWS the Russians helped. He has so many personality disorders and mental illnesses the guilt spills out of him. Classic projection. Text book in fact.

So who's going to be doing the prep walk before this is all over?

Fuck these pantywaists who don’t think we deserve any restitution. The whole reason we’re in this mess is because the system isn’t working. When the reckoning comes it should not only include that the winner shows you be installed immediately and all judicial appointments and executive orders be made null and void but we should also seek to abolish the electoral college and all of this gerry-mandering too. Enough is enough. We owe it to future generations.

I’m sorry.....who said anything about no restitution? I keep hearing posters blather like no one is angry and we’re all quivering in fear about coming across too aggressively or heaven forbid, we might UPSET them. I’m sorry but I don’t hear anyone actually saying that, so I’m not sure why the anger gets turned on the home team.

[quote]I am sure Sick Rudy will spin this as not an issue at all,

What happened with that IG report that allegedly was looking int =p the NY FBI and possibly had something about Ghouliani?

One person can change the tune of Republicans in Congress with two five minutes phone calls. He could quickly bring down Trump if he wanted. One call to Mitch McConnell. One call to Paul Ryan or Kevin McCarthy.

That caller would be David Koch.

Because I’m bored with the “it’ll never happen” crowd and their appeasement. The country has never seen anything like this, it will require new ideas and new solutions to restore and protect our democracy.

R381 Restitution has to happen or they will try this again. The consequences must be severe. I don't know how anyone who believes in fairness would not demand HRC be installed as President. Not only that, but her FULL 4 year term start then. It will change the course of when we have Pres elections but oh well.

A changed date might serve as a good historical reminder, R382, of how close to losing democracy we came and how we must never allow it again. Perhaps in a hundred years they will be teaching, “And this is why the presidential elections always take place in a year with an uneven number. Our legal president, Hillary Rodham Clinton, started her term in March, 2019, and her first term lasted until 2023, and her second until 2027. Never forget how much our constitution was compromised and how close to chaos it got.”

R383 That's what I was getting at. It would serve as a reminder and we it would always be in the discussion as to why.

Not only did the Russians attack our democracy but fingers crossed this brings down the American oligarchs who facilitated this. As in, executed.

In the continuing fantasy I have, which I've already mentioned includes Mueller and team being aware of this thread...

I also like to fantasize that the coincidences as of late, non-answers, info re: Russian's owning voting machines, etc. is Intelligence getting the people slowly ready for the revelation that vote counts were indeed altered.

Again, if the Deplorables can jerk off to Hillary whipping them (you know they do) I'm allowed to have this fantasy.

Does Martha MacCallum of Fox's "The Story" have other people to interview? Miss Lindsey appears there almost nightly. And Miss Lindsey doesn't fail to tweet her upcoming interviews.

Praise of Trump and talk of war, no one does it better than Miss Lindsey.

R386 They have something on Miss Lindsey cuz she changed her tune on Prez Bone Spurs fast.

Yes, r375. Add to that list the constant talk of how he knew to go to Wisconsin and Clinton didn’t.

The biggest obstacle to getting rid of the Citizens United decision, is the Media. The media has been the biggest beneficiary of Citizens United. All the money they spend on political ads, billions. Why do you think CNN, Fox, and others start hyping the Presidential election two years out, staging those weekly debates and "town halls." First of all they are very inexpensive to mount as TV shows or news specials go, and secondly they hype the election creating the "horse race" atmosphere deliberately manipulating polls and getting the campaigns to spend massive amounts of $$$. The best way to reform the whole campaign finance thing is with a Constitutional amendment. It would require a referendum in 37-38 states to approve it once Congress passed it. Good luck. As for the Supremes reversing that ruling, Even though Roberts for one, expressed remorse at supporting it, I doubt he'd be the "swing vote" to reverse it. But we have to try. Look at Abortion Rights and Affirmative action. The Republicans have been trying for years to reverse both. What has happened is that every year they have been able to hollow out and restrict the law on those issues. It isn't exactly what they want, but it is close. So maybe we have to do the same thing. Go after Citizens United incrementally, Personally I favor massive campaign finance reform with a Constitutional amendment. Something has to be done.

R389 Yes, the fix is in on CU. The media greatly profits from it. The Oligarchs Big Corps will run things (to an extent) until we can overturn it. It starts with voting.

R389, I'm even for leaving those tax breaks for the rich in place, for a while, as whitewash. Some things feel more urgent. Q

Hillary Clinton ran on repealing Citizens United. She even had a “litmus” test on the issue regarding who she would appoint to the Supreme Court.

Those PAC ads, which the Citizens United decision allowed to flourish, are big revenue for the networks. R389 noted that.

Constitutional amendment or constraints through legislation, change to CU starts with Congress and would obviously follow pressure from public interests and advocacy. CU gives a huge boost for incumbents on top of other advantages.

Unfortunately, Congress has been awful for such a long time and it only gets worse. They are crippled in doing anything beyond appeasing major donors and powerful interests. I really favor term limits and limits on campaign expenditures. Any single contribution over $200 needs to be documented and show on a database website with names. Illegal contributions need to be penalized enough to discourage it.

People such as McConnell, Feinstein, Gohmert, and many others, don't need to be there for a life-time. And when lawmakers, including McCain, become terminally ill or cannot fulfill there duties for a long time, they need to resign and allow another to represent the district or state and be physically there to deliberate and vote.

Growing up during the Cold War, it's unfathomable that the President would meet the Russian President with only 2 translators present.

Tramp has never criticized Putie, has he?

Interesting that Drumpf doesn't have a nickname for Daddy Put Put, huh?

Putty needs a sinister nickname, not a fuzzy one. He has "off'd" too many critics to be viewed as charming in any respectable way.

Trumpy may call him Rimable Poopshoot, but that's him.

Florida Republicans play starring roles in Russia hacking indictment By MARC CAPUTO 07/13/2018 06:37 PM EDT MIAMI — The new indictment of Russian military officials who hacked Democrats during the 2016 presidential elections has Florida written all over it.

Two Florida Republicans and possibly a third — Rep. Brian Mast — play starring roles in the indictment, although none is named.

Story Continued Below

Unlike President Donald Trump‘s former political adviser Roger Stone and political operative Aaron Nevins, Mast’s identity is the least certain of any of the Florida Republicans hinted at in the indictment. The indictment released Friday details how a dozen Russian military officers used an online persona called “Guccifer 2.0” to disseminate information they stole from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the Democratic National Committee, which was led at the time by Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.).

Almost as soon as the indictment was released Friday, Florida Republicans, Democrats and even allies of Mast speculated that the congressman’s campaign was likely implicated — in great part because a former campaign consultant for Mast admitted last year to The Wall Street Journal and then to POLITICO that he used some of the hacked information in 2016.

Mast, through a spokesman, denied a link.

Kind of quiet in here before the Sunday bobbleheads.

Elon Musk, savior of the environment, appears to have a strong interest in the Republicans' maintaining control of Congress. Maybe it's so that he won't have to pay taxes.

Wow on Musk. I always naively assume techies skew Democratic. That disgusts me. Wonder if all the clients of Tesla know this about him? I would imagine many of them would NOT be happy to hear he’s supporting Republicans.

He actually supports both parties....as do most large donors.

Has anybody ever thought about the possibility that A certain trio of advisors are leading the potus intentionally astray?

The same trio that was backed by a certain family and previously committed to a different candidate?

They might want to see him fail so that their previous client can come in.

They could be walking him right off the plank.

R403 No

R392, yes HRC ran against CU. She also ran against the NRA insisting Reasonable Gun Safety Measures were a priority. She also took on the issue of Racism and police violence towards young Black men. And she still got 3 million more votes than Trump, and had the fucking election stolen from her by Putin's GRU, their version of our CIA.

Good - I hope all Florida newspapers play up the whole Mast thing, not just one. Pretty much all newspapers endorsed Hillary. So - do something editors. Make this story sound salacious. Make it sexy for the readers. When I say sexy I mean it in the sense of enhancing something to give it greater appeal or impact. Get someone who can write this story breathlessly, as if it’s a tabloid story.

Actually House Dem leaders could call very publicly and very loudly for his expulsion from the House, R406. That would raise the profile a bit, and give Democrats something to talk about right here and now while everyone is still waiting for the Mueller report. And also remind people that this shit didn't start with Trump, that the entire GOP is a deeply corrupt party full of assholes whose only thought is money, money, money and how to serve the rich.

I knew Russia hacked voting machines to change votes, It will finally come to light that Trump stole the ekection.

R401 - No. just no. The tech people might have seemed likely to have skewed dem twenty or thirty years ago when they were young and idealistic - but that’s a long time ago.

It helps to think of them - as someone once referred to them - as ‘robber barrons in chinos’.

The vast sums of dough has vast power to corrupt. Generally - they now want the biggest and best houses, boats, planes - and they don’t care how many people are paid sub-standard wages or treatedlike slaves so they can have it. And rest assured, that where there is great wealth like that - someone, somewhere along the supply chain is getting screwed over.

And do you really think these people want to pay taxes?

They hire the best economics graduates and lawyers to game the system. They don’t operate by the same rules as the rest of us mere mortals.

It’s utter greed and ompletely corrupt. And their attitudes and behaviours are why revolutions happened in the past.

But maybe their high tech devices will protect them this time around. We’ll see I guess...

And yep - R408 - agreed. It makes no sense that Russia and co would put in all that effort electronically and not go the extra mile and massage some voting numbers in key areas. The Cheeto won those areas by razor thin margins. Why would they hold back after all that effort and leave anything to chance?

But what gets me - is that people have been discussing the vulnerability of electronic voting for years. Ever since the first Diebold machines were introduced. And yet - it’s just gotten worse. It’s like the country has been asleep at the wheel and just taking its democracy for granted. It cannot continue. Sweeping changes must be made - and I suspect that after the perfidy and traitorous behaviour is finally revealed - there will be the appetite for it.

I truly believe that when it all comes out - the Republican Party could well end up being banned - the way the Nazi parry in Germany and fascist party in Italy were after WW2.

And I’m confident it will all come out. If they think by firing Muller they can prevent the information from being released - think again. There are many, many genuine patriots who care about their country involved in the investigation. They won’t let it be covered up. And it’s never been easier to get large volumes of information out to the press and the public. If they try and shut it down - you think the information they’ve discovered will just disappear? Not on your life.

The revelations will make the Panama papers and the paradise papers look like chicken feed.

agreed, r409, they are as dreary and corporate as every other industry. And the rich assholes that run them are as greedy and shortsighted as every other bitch who has voted Republican in the last 50 years.

[quote] What happened with that IG report that allegedly was looking int =p the NY FBI and possibly had something about Ghouliani?

Why is Reality Winner in prison for spilling the beans to the press and Rudy Giuliani isn't?

OMG, r331. HTH is a state government entity allowed to "outsource" our very democracy?!

We are deeply sick in our level of Capitalist avarice, pretending to "save tax-payers' money" by corrupting our elections and betraying our country.

Traitors all.

All Of Them Treasonous

I believe the Republicans were acting down right insane the other day in hearings...because they are connected to Russia also and they will probably have to go to jail for it. With Watergate only 40 went to jail. My good sense says there will be a hundred going to jail with Russiagate.

Russians changed our votes and that is a certainty. Eventually it will all come out but it seems the worst has already been done to our country. The tax bill alone will end up killing us.

That's why shit like the tax bill have to be reversed on the grounds of the whole government being illegitimate because of the Russians hacking the election. There's a first for everything and the US has to take a stand that it can't let Russia and its agents run the US (into the ground).

Yes, the political power has to be reverted back to the last legitimate government led by Barrack Obama. That would serve the Republicunts right when all they wanted was to get rid of Obama and they are the ones bringing him back. Poetic justice.

We are at war, if "war" can be defined as a foreign entity's attacks on another sovereign nation. We have been attacked by Russia.

No, not by kamikaze planes. But by weaponry far more insidious and destructive: computers and big money. Computers to steal votes and elections; big money to buy the conspiratorial acquiescence of politicians.

We know whom the Fifth Column comprises.

Yet every war has its heroes as well as its traitors. Robert Mueller earned a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart in Vietnam, but his current battle might elevate him to almost-mythic hero status.

As R418 says, we have been attacked.

America has been attacked. America is under attack right now.

Every news network should be running "America Under Attack" graphics, like they did within 12 hours of 9/11.

This is the digital 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. Except the deaths won't occur all at once ... they are happening now and will happen down the road, after the collapse of democracy.

We are so stupid. Not to have seen this, not to have reacted to it in 2016, not to have rejected Trump, not to have rejected his GOP enablers, not to be in the streets right now. We still suffer from the same "failure of imagination" that enabled 9/11 and the Russian attack on the U.S. election system. We are in serious trouble unless we fight back NOW.

We have to start the question why the media doesn't call the Russian meddling what it is, an attack. What role does the mainstream media play in this? The media that controls the narrative sold to the masses?

R418 - I don’t think we can begin to grasp the greed and lust for power that’s caused so many to sell their country out...

And I suspect that many of the smaller cogs in the wheels don’t even realise quite what they’ve done and how they’ve been used -

And I’m sure the higher ups don’t feel they have betrayed the country. They are all - the Murdochs, the Mercers, all the other plutocrats - certain of their own superiority and abilities to run things ‘properly’. I’m sure their sense of entitlement leads them to think they’d be doing everyone a huge favour!

It’s gonna be really messy. There are so many involved - at so many levels - and varying degrees of culpability. It’s gonna be chaos.

OP - Has the title "Boys in the Treason" been suggested yet? I suspect you could come up with a great graphic to accompany it?

[quote] I’m sure their sense of entitlement leads them to think they’d be doing everyone a huge favour!

Not quite. They think everybody else stands in their way to real greatness, being so selfish asking "What about me?" expecting others to help them when they can't help themselves (these undeserving moochers!).The rich douchebags don't believe in helping others. They believe in taking what is rightfully theirs, because they are who they are: So very rich, so very powerful, so very smart and so very cunning. If you can't be of use for them you are a threat of wasting the precious resources that belong to them.

An unprecedented political crisis needs an unprecedented solution.

Lock Him Up!

If someone won the election - like Hillary did - then they won the election and are the legal president.

Lock Him Up, it's an interesting notion, R424. Just because it's never been done doesn't mean it can never be done. The same goes for indicting a POTUS. Although "they" say it can't and won't be done, I'm not so sure. We've never run up against a POTUS who committed treason with a foreign adversary before. Perhaps Rosenstein and Mueller will determine that an indictment is necessary, once the shit really starts hitting the fan.

It certainly would freak him out, as he would say, [bold] like never before! [/bold]

R426 - there’s so much here that’s uncharted waters. I mean - evil fucking Richard Nixon committed crimes - in his determination to be on top and in power - but he never sold the country out to do it.

This will be big. Nothing like it will have ever happened before - so who knows what solutions or remedies will be on offer. Anything is possible.

It’s pretty obvious though - Russian - and other criminal funds - have been pouring into the Trump organisation for years. That’s the sole basis of their current wealth. Hundreds of millions have been laundered. And these people want something for it. Destabilizing the West and diminishing the US’s power and influence for starters...

Can you still be put to death for committing treason?

Tim Snyder, Yale historian who has been sounding the fascism alarm, trying to wake Americans up since 2016, warned in 2017: “My new concern is that there will be something that happens around the time of the midterms. This will allow Trump and his allies to say that the midterms don't really count or that we have to have the midterms under exceptional conditions. Take note of how Secretary of State Rex Tillerson recently said that the Russians are going to hack the 2018 election and we really can't do anything about it.”

“Every news network should be running "America Under Attack" graphics, like they did within 12 hours of 9/11.”

Thank you!

I don’t know about that R428. P🐄tin could keeel over with a heart attack or stroke tomorrow, down the line frozen international monetary assets could throw Russia and its oligarchs into disarray. Perhaps an uptick in terrorism in moscow, who knows? P🐁tin has made a a lot of enemies including the British, Dutch, and of course the Americans. We always fear the worst for ourselves, but what about them?

Doesn't Putin have some sidekick? The one who became president of Russia when it was required for Putin to step down. Of course without his master he'll be useless and easy to push aside though.

R427 Nixon sabotaged the Paris Peace talks which kept the Vietnam war going for years. It was treason. I think that is what the 18 minutes of deleted tape was about.

And where exactly in Russia is R29?

R393, Term Limits relieve Congress of power and gives it over to the Executive by its very nature. That is exactly what has happened in states where legislatures are term limited in non federal elections. Term limits already exist. Vote the fuckers out. I'm opposed to any measure that takes power away from the voters.

The reason CU has destroyed campaign financing, is because even though other reform measures were already passed in Congress from time to time, like McCain- Feingold, the GOP supporters hollowed out the muscle in those laws by challenging it repeatedly and finally overturned it on a "free speech " basis. There are still limits on donors, but they a re easy to circumvent.

That's why the only true way to reform campaign financing is through a Constitutional Amendment passed by Congress and ratified by 3/4 of all the states within a seven year time frame from the time Congress passes it and submits it to the states for ratification. That is why I have been so concerned about the Republicans taking over so many state governors and legislatures. We really need to focus on local and keep the pressure on them all.

Rand Paul was on with Jake Tapper at CNN. Paul was calling the Mueller investigation a witch-hunt and he was speaking about the indictment s on the Russians.

Paul opposes sanctions on Russia and disdains NATO.

The guy is bizarre.

R434 Executives, Governors and Presidents have term limits. Legislators accumulate so much cash and power it is about control and staying sustained, selling themselves to special interests. Few challengers can overcome this. It is not a citizens legislature. They see it as a long-term career. Serving twelve years is enough for all these characters and they need to curtail their own excessive benefits going well beyond what other government employees receive. Experience has certain merits. But longevity has also breed stagnation and corruption. My opinion, of course, and I am for a shake-up. The House has gerrymandered to protect themselves from larger voter interests.

There is no national election. There are 50 state elections with 50 different sets of rules, and different processes. Some are identical some use the same processes, but we have to view this as 50 state elections and we have to insist that voter security has to be implemented state by state.

Money has to be invested. That is one sticking point. Too many states and counties and big cities don't want to upgrade and update their machinery or their voting processes. That is where we need to focus attention.

The Russians a re definitely going to try to meddle like they did in 2016. But remember. There's no Electoral College to manipulate. This time we are aware of them, and this time we will be turning out in huge numbers. That is the way to neutralize their impact. Huge numbers. Turnout.

Because in 2016, Hillary WON the fucking election in spite of a tidal wave of shit being slung at her. So while we should worry and be alert, take heart. We can overcome this, we can win back the House and possibly the Senate.

After the Mid Terms, when we vote Dems into state offices too, we have to get serious at the state level of reforming elections, including gerrymandering, voter suppression and voter fraud. Let's do this!

Term limits give power to unelected, unaccountable aides.

Every quote from Trump in this interview is infuriating.

There's nothing unprecedented about holding public servants—like all citizens—accountable to the laws.

"Trump admin. ignoring poverty and promoting inequality" Fuck Trump and the whore he rode in on. Fuck the greedy treasonous Repubs. and the GOP who are merely complicit by standing back and yakking but doing less than nothing. I'm thinking Corker, Flake, and to an extent, mealy mouthed Susan Collins.

BTW, David Koch is out of the biz. He is supposedly very ill with a recurrence of cancer Brother CHARLES Koch is the controlling force. Koch company very homophobic. Why the hell can London turn out thousands with a Baby Blimp in protest of Trump (not to forget some of the clever posters they held up) and the butt we cant rally in every major and minor city in US and really go for it. I know we sort of have but we need to get going. We need a real leader. And no. Lets let HRC lay low. Too divisive. Who I don't know.

.

At this point, I figure any repub referring to the investigation as a “witch hunt” is in it up to his neck. So, how did rand paul betray America?

[quote]"I think it's a good thing to meet. I do believe in meetings. I believe that having a meeting with Chairman Kim was a good thing. I think having meetings with the president of China was a very good thing. I believe it's really good. So having meetings with Russia, China, North Korea, I believe in it. Nothing bad is going to come out of it, and maybe some good will come out."

Another sophisticated articulate analysis for Deplorables to consider and debate in detail.

Even the Watergate criminals didn’t stoop to the defense that the Democrats should’ve had better defenses against intrusion. Trump does just that at r439.

Trump is meeting Putin under orders from Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. These three countries want Russia to force Assad to severely limit Iran's presence in Syria, and they expect Trump to give Putin everything he wants in order to achieve their goal. Straight up treason. Trump is working for foreign governments, not the United States.

R441 "Fuck Trump and the whore he rode in on."

I cannot stop laughing; thank you!

[quote]his mother must have been one of those cold tit monkey mannequins.

Orangutan, I believe, r260.

But she gave a speech at Goldman Sachs, r405!

Until r64 i thought "Reality Winner" was a code name, kind of spoofing the profession of the president, like "David Dennison" had an agreement with Stormy Daniels.

The Russian Embassy deleted 2 key words from a tweet it sent out about Rand Paul's meeting with the Russian ambassador

McCain: Rand Paul 'is now working for Vladimir Putin'

“Is the Ron Paul Institute a Front for Russian Interests?

At first, I did not think so despite much of the evidence I was seeing connecting people at RPI to different Russian interests. First, it appears that many of the people involved in the institute are also listed as writers for Russia-Insider.com where Ed Lozansky and various other people familiar to the ongoing Trump-Russia crises reside. RPI director Daniel Mcadams is listed as writing for Russia Today as well the CNP connected Mises Institute. The 2013 Lozansky Russia-Forum consisted of people who wrote for one of these two websites.

Jon Basil Utley, a CNP member is a fellow at the Mises institute who also works on installing and funding right wing think tanks in Russia as part of the Koch brothers connected Atlas Network.”

I so want John McCain to crash the rupublican party...

Who the hell do you think has been funding both Ron Pauls for decades?

Ron Paul and the whole bunch taking money from the NRA who been taking money from Russia. This stuff was easy to find and anyone (trump) taking money from the NRA are guilty as sin.

So Putin is grooming Trump' successor? In earlier threads, I said that maybe it could be Donnie Jr. but more than likely it would be another high profile Republican. I even considered Sean Hannity. We have to figure that Putin would not pin all his hopes to Trump.

I said even earlier that he had to have compromised members of Congress. But back then, I was thinking primarily of Devin Nunes, and possibly Gowdy, and Chaffetz. But that was a while ago. Now we have confirmation Russia was fucking with many members of Congress in general, plus we now know about the NRA money and other methods they used to funnel money to Congressional candidates.

So Rand Paul. I never would have guessed. He's nuts. His father was nuts. I now have to wonder if it wasn't Russia hype that helped propel his father into prominence years ago. The Russians leave their signature. You can see it everywhere now.

This whole mess has certainly raised my awareness. When I see Bernie, or his BernieBots, or I see the infighting instigated in the state Democratic parties between factions, I know Russia's finger prints are all over it. I believe the differences are legitimate, but that they are exaggerated, exacerbated and used to divide and discourage people.

I believe the Russian/GOP plan was to make sure unelectable Far Left candidates were standard bearers in the general election, so they could get the Republican elected. But it cannot work if we all just vote for the Democrat no matter who it is. Of course we need unifiers not dividers. We need to try to get candidates elected who are going to work well for us in Congress. But we have to turn out and vote Democratic.

you may be right r456, but it's all wild speculation right now. Right now, we really, really, really need a Blue Wave that at least swamps the House of Representatives. Maybe the Senate, but at least the House. Whoever Putin picks or works with or likes needs a serious opposition that will not compromise on the underlying freedoms of this country just to make Putin's puppet smile. A Republican House can never be trusted with that job.

Since the GOP is so insistent on taking us back to the 1950s, then we need to teach the grifters and conmen a lesson......go back to the old tax code where the rich paid 94% income tax (1944, for income over 200k.....a modern equivalent would to have the tax be over 2 million a year.....no loopholes, no deductions, etc)....we need to level the playing field. Also, if we have knowledge of foreign or offshore accounts, we need to tax them too, or they risk forfeiture.

and unions, R458. The 1950s were built on unions. That's why they were so prosperous. Not just giving every possible new dollar to rich assholes. Spread that money around and have a prosperous society. Let it all congeal at the time and have ... Russia and the current US.

Trump really is the kid standing in front of class trying to race the clock while hiding the fact that he never read the book his presentation is supposed to be on.

It's such an embarrassment.

[quote] tech people might seem likely to have skewed dem twenty or thirty years ago when they were young and idealistic but that’s a king time ago.

Did you see the guy who worked for Cambridge Analytica doing Steve Bannon’s bidding? The guy with the pink hair? Twenty or thirty years ago a guy like that wouldn’t have worked for homophobic, racist, white supremacists who were trying to install a clown into the highest position on earth. But he did it. Later on, he tells people all about it, but he was as happy as a pig in shit to work for these horrible, destructive people. He knew full well who they were and what they were doing and that he was helping elect Donald Trump. He knew Steve Bannon was a low down snake but he did his bidding anyway.

That’s who were dealing with now. Amoral people who put money and closeness to power at the top of their life’s list. Celebrity means more than equality.

Of course people betray their own "tribe" to climb up the career or social ladder. We've been raised to believe that this is a White Men's World and there is very limited space for minorities at their table so members of minority groups claw and backstab each other to get one of these precious seats at the table.

People are not born ruthless sociopaths. They are raised that way.

more than that, r462, it is rapidly becoming an oligarchy that happily accepts the rule of the wealthy, and only the rule of the wealthy, and that all wealth must be concentrated into a few, very small hands. Nobody but 1 percent must get anything more than the bare minimum to survive. That is the goal.

Rand Paul has gotten more strange since his neighbor whacked him.

I'm glad I'm a member of the Democratic party. Russian looked at the American political parties and said, 'The Republicans are the immoral and gullible schmucks, we'll use them.' And then all the idiot Repug voters jumped up and volunteered to full-throatedly give up all semblance of intelligence or righteousness. Now, because of their inherent lack of self-actualization or ability to absorb knowledge of any kind, they have instead chosen to become even more hardened in their positions and support of the Republican/Russian conspiracy against America. They are all knowing traitors.

Trump just tweeted congratulations to France for their World Cup win. He then congratulated Putin for his wonderful job of putting on the World Cup. Not a word to Macron!

^ He's such a petty fifth-grade cunt.

As Trump arranges to meet face-to-face and privately with Vladimir Putin later this month, the collusion between the two men metastasizing from a dark accusation into an open alliance, it would be dangerous not to consider the possibility that the summit is less a negotiation between two heads of state than a meeting between a Russian-intelligence asset and his handler.

“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” said Donald Jr. in 2008.

“We don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia,” boasted Eric Trump in 2014.

r431, Medvedev.

If he is still alive, he is a friend.

"I would ask the president to give some serious consideration, your first request of Vladimir Putin needs to be, 'Tell us which airport we can pick up the 25 Russians that tried to interfere with the fundamentals of our democracy,'" Gowdy told "Face the Nation" on Sunday.

Gowdy suggested that Mr. Trump tell Putin: "If you really claim that you had nothing to do with it, then you should be as shocked as we were that your military being used to impact our election, tell us where your going to extradite those folks because an American grand jury indicted them for undermining our democracy."

Gowdy noted that no American has been named in an indictment as having conspired with the Russians. Gowdy, who is a leading figure in a separate congressional probe into election interference, said that Mueller's investigation is not a "witch hunt" and instead said his focus is on what exactly did Russia do to the U.S. election system.

Is he meeting Putin with no secret service present, is that even allowed? Secret Service agents are sworn to defend the Constitution.

[quote] “I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Did Gowdy see himself in the Congressional hearing the other day R472? Is he disassociating or just that dumb?

Another useful model can be found in Ukraine, where a Russian oligarch backed the 2010 political campaign of the pro-Russian apparatchik Viktor Yanukovych.

The effort to install Yanukovych prefigured many elements of Trump’s campaign.

His campaign exploited ethnic divisions and portrayed his opponent, Yulia Tymoshenko, as corrupt and the election as rigged.

Yanukovych called for closer ties with Russia while obscuring the depth of his own furtive Russian connections.

Most significant, the consultant brought in to manage Yanukovych’s campaign was the same one who managed Trump’s six years later: Paul Manafort.

Gowdy plays both sides of the fence.....hes knows whats right and whats wrong, but he puts on a show to appease the base. Gowdy is one of the ones that if push came to shove, he would side with the US....until then, he knows what side his bread is buttered on.

This much was clear in March 2016: The person who managed the campaign of a pro-Russian candidate in Ukraine was now also managing the campaign of a pro-Russian candidate in the United States.

And Trump’s campaign certainly looked like the same play Putin had run many times before: Trump inflamed internal ethnic division, assailed the corruption of the elite, attacked Western allies while calling for cooperation with Russia, and sowed distrust in the fairness of the vote count.

And in addition to deploying social-media bots and trolls, Russia apparently spent directly to help elect Trump.

The FBI is investigating Alexander Torshin, a Russian banker who built ties to Republicans and allegedly funneled campaign funds to the National Rifle Association, which spent three times as much to help Trump as it had on behalf of Romney four years earlier.

[quote] Gowdy is one of the ones that if push came to shove, he would side with the US

Oh my sides!

[quote]Gowdy is one of the ones that if push came to shove, he would side with the US...

What in the world are you basing this on?

There's a reason he's leaving.

R475, not only that, they pulled the same crap with his opponent Yulia Tymoshenko that they later tried with Clinton. Only difference is that they managed to lock up Tymoshenko.

Very interesting story and the parallels are incredible.

Re Gowdy... the tarot reader/psychic "Rosie" discussed a lot in the Predictions for 2018 thread just did a psychic reading on him. Her guides told her that Gowdy is actually cooperating with Mueller, that as a former prosecutor he ultimately could not stomach the GOP allowing Russia to destroy our government and turned on his colleagues. She thinks he could be wired. If any of that is true, could explain his strange behavior, since he would need to keep up some pretense with his GOP colleagues.

Oh, well in that case...

It is possible that the current list of known campaign contacts accounts for most, or even all, of the direct cooperation.

But that is hardly a safe assumption. Very little of the information we have about connections between the Trump campaign and Russia was voluntarily disclosed.

The pattern of anyone implicated is to lie about everything, construct the most plausible-sounding cover story for the known facts, and when their lies are exposed, retreat to a new story.

The Trump Tower meeting alone required three different cover stories over the course of two days as the truth dribbled out.

These threads fly by so fast ---did someone mention that Cohen's changed his Twitter background photo and isn't mentioning Trump... what a big change from May (he was so belligerent in late April, remember? "Says Who?" -- took him weeks to shift publicly)? I still think he's "what's in it for me?" and all mobby but that self-preservation and looking out for Number One undoubtedly shifted his allegiance when enough evidence and counsel trickled into his thick skull.

In July 2016, a loose-knit community of computer scientists and cybersecurity experts discovered a strange pattern of online traffic between two computer servers. One of those servers belonged to Alfa Bank in Moscow and the other to the Trump Organization.

Alfa Bank’s owners had “assumed an unforeseen level of prominence and influence in the economic and political affairs of their nation,” as a federal court once put it.

The analysts noted that the traffic between the two servers occurred during office hours in New York and Moscow and spiked in correspondence with major campaign events, suggesting it entailed human communication rather than bots.

More suspiciously, after New York Times reporter Eric Lichtblau asked Alfa Bank about it but before he brought it up with the Trump campaign, the server in Trump Tower shut down. The timing strongly implied Alfa Bank was communicating with Trump.

In October, Slate’s Franklin Foer broke the story of the servers and the computer scientists’ analysis about what it seemed to mean, which he called “a suggestive body of evidence that doesn’t absolutely preclude alternative explanations.”

When Foer’s story landed, the political world treated it as insane.

Vox, which had dismissed reports about Trump’s secret Russian ties as “poorly evidenced conspiracy theories,” savaged the server report.

The Intercept called it “wacky.”

Lichtblau reported that the FBI was investigating the server but that it “ultimately concluded that there could be an innocuous explanation, like a marketing email or spam, for the computer contacts.”

And yet, CNN reported in March 2017 that the FBI’s investigation into the server remained open.

Meanwhile, the biggest mystery of Foer’s story — why did Trump and Russia need a computer server to communicate? — now has a coherent answer.

It was already apparent in 2016 that the highest-profile parts of Russia’s messaging machine, like RT and Sputnik, were biased toward Trump.

But now we know that its social-media activity employed precise demographic and geographic targeting — far more precise than a foreign country would be expected to have and notably concentrated on “key demographic groups in areas of the states that turned out to be pivotal,” CNN reported.

That information is highly valuable: When a Republican staffer named Aaron Nevins received stolen Democratic Party voter-profile data from Guccifer 2.0, the Russian-backed hacker, that summer, he wrote to the hacker, “This is probably worth millions of dollars.”

The Alfa Bank server connection might not have been put to the exact same kind of collaborative purpose, but Russia’s social-media operation needed some fine-grained expertise to direct its targeted messages.

It likely got it from somebody connected to Trump and quite possibly used the server to transmit directly with Trump Tower. If that server was transmitting data to and from Moscow, who in Trump Tower was feeding it?

[quote]She thinks he could be wired. If any of that is true, could explain his strange behavior, since he would need to keep up some pretense with his GOP colleagues.

Oh so that explains his strange behavior for the past 8 years... he's been wearing a wire since 2010!

Since the election, Trump and his advisers have continued to act like people who have a great deal to hide.

In January 2017, Cohen solicited consulting payments from a firm controlled by a Russian oligarch and, when Flynn became national-security adviser, delivered to him a “peace plan” that would have consolidated the gains from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

In December 2016, Jared Kushner and Russia’s ambassador discussed setting up a back-channel communications line through the Russian embassy.

Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater and brother of Trump’s Education secretary, traveled to the Seychelles and met with a Putin ally in what European and Middle Eastern officials believe was another attempt to establish a back channel. Prince also appears to have lied to Congress about the meeting.

Of course, at that point, if Trump had legal diplomatic business to discuss with Russia, the president-elect could have held a normal meeting.

It is possible to construct an innocent explanation for all the lying and skulduggery, but it is not the most obvious explanation.

More likely, collusion between the Russians and the Trump administration has continued beyond the campaign.

The largest source of suspicion and curiosity is, again, Manafort.

He left the campaign in August, when some of his ties to Deripaska were exposed and the campaign was floundering.

But contrary to Trump’s recent efforts to depict his relationship with Manafort as distant and short-lived, the two continued to speak regularly even after the inauguration.

We know this because U.S. investigators had convinced a FISA judge to wiretap Manafort’s phone.

Manafort even allegedly took the reckless step of trying to coach a fellow witness to coordinate his story and was thrown in jail for it while he awaits trial.

Why would Manafort, who has a law degree from Georgetown and years of experience around white-collar crime, behave like this?

Of all those in Trump’s camp, he is the furthest thing from a true believer, and he lacks any long-standing personal ties to the president or his family, so what incentive does he have to spend most or all of his remaining years in prison rather than betray Trump?

One way to make sense of his behavior is the possibility that Manafort is keeping his mouth shut because he’s afraid of being killed.

That speculation might sound hyperbolic, but there is plenty of evidence to support it.

In February, a video appeared on YouTube showing Manafort’s patron Deripaska on his yacht with a Belarusian escort named Anastasia Vashukevich.

In the video, from August 2016, Deripaska could be seen speaking with a high-ranking Kremlin official.

The video was such a source of embarrassment to Moscow that it fought to have it removed from YouTube.

Vashukevich, who was then in a Thai jail after having been arrested there for prostitution, announced that she had heard Deripaska describe a plot to interfere in the election and that she has 16 hours’ worth of audio recordings from the yacht to support her charges.

In a letter to America authorities, her associate wrote, “We risk our lives very much.”

Vashukevich’s name has disappeared from the news media.

In all probability, either the FBI or Russian intelligence has gotten to her.

Whatever has happened to her, her testimony suggests both that Russia is still hiding secrets about its role in Trump’s election and that someone who knows Deripaska well believes he would and could kill her for violating his confidence.

r481, then explain why he altered evidence in the Hillary Benghazi probe?

Not a Boy Scout. Gowdy is dirty.

The latter fear is hardly paranoid.

Russia murders people routinely, at home and abroad.

In the nine months after Trump’s election, nine Russian officials were murdered or died mysteriously. At least one was suspected to have been a likely source for Steele. The attorney for the firm that hired Steele told the Senate last August, “Somebody’s already been killed as a result of the publication of this dossier.”

Here is another unresolved episode that might be weighing on Manafort’s decision.

In the summer of 2016, veteran Republican activist Peter W. Smith set out to obtain hacked emails from Clinton and contacted Matt Tait, a cybersecurity expert, for help in the project.

Smith represented himself as working for the Trump campaign, though he had formed a Delaware-based company, as Smith wrote to Tait, “to avoid campaign reporting.”

Tait later said that he warned Smith that such a search would bring him into likely collusion with Russian hackers but that Smith “didn’t seem to care.”

At minimum, the episode is just another example of a person working for Trump who was eager to collude with Russia. It might indicate something more.

In the spring of 2017, Wall Street Journal reporter Shane Harris found Smith and asked about this episode.

Smith told Harris he had been acting independently of the Trump campaign.

Within ten days of speaking with Harris, the 81-year-old Smith was found dead in a hotel room, with a bag over his head attached with rubber bands and two helium tanks.

His suicide note claimed “no foul play whatsoever” and attributed his decision to a “recent bad turn in health since January, 2017” and the timing of his decision “to life insurance of $5 million expiring.”

Harris noted, however, that when they spoke, “I had no indication that he was ill or planning to take his own life.”

Local police, who initially ruled the death a suicide, stopped taking questions shortly after his role in the campaign became widely known.

Smith’s family has not publicly affirmed that he committed suicide or that they had an expiring life-insurance policy, nor has the FBI made any statement about his death.

Smith may well have killed himself for the reasons cited in the note.

Alternatively, he might have killed himself out of fear of being questioned by the FBI, or potentially he was killed by somebody else for that same reason.

If he was, or if Manafort merely suspected he was, it would explain his otherwise senseless refusal to cooperate with Mueller’s investigation.

In a Republican meeting a month before Trump clinched the 2016 nomination, the recording of which later leaked, House Speaker Paul Ryan mused about how Russia “hacked the DNC … and, like, delivered it to who?”

House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy replied, “There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump.”

When others laughed, he added, “Swear to God.”

Dana Rohrabacher, a California Republican, has been known for years in Washington as “Putin’s favorite congressman” for his idiosyncratic attention to, and support for, a wide array of pro-Russian positions.

(He has worked to weaken sanctions meant to punish Russia for human-rights violations, compared pro-Russian separatists who helped Russia seize Ukrainian territory to the American Founders, and denounced the “hypocrisy” of U.S. opposition to the Crimean invasion.)

He is widely suspected of having an ulterior motive. That Republican leaders would either gossip or joke about Rohrabacher and Trump in the same breath indicated a deep concern about the man who — as none of them expected at the time — would go on to win the presidency.

The leaked conversation also revealed something else about the Republican Party: Putin had, by then, made very few American allies.

Among elected officials, Trump and Rohrabacher stood alone in their sympathy for Russian positions.

Trump had drawn a few anomalously pro-Russian advisers into his inner circle, but by early 2017, Manafort had been disgraced and Flynn forced to resign, and Page had no chance of being confirmed for any Cabinet position.

Trump’s foreign-policy advisers mostly had traditionally hawkish views on Russia, with the partial exception of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, the former Exxon CEO who had won a Russian Order of Friendship award for his cooperation in the oil business.

(Romney had been Trump’s initial choice for that position, The New Yorker reported, but Steele, in a separate dossier with a “senior Russian official” as its source, said that Russia used “unspecified channels” to influence the decision.)

I think we should all familiarize ourselves with Article 3, Section III of the Constitution.

Now that he’s in office, Trump’s ties to Russia have attracted close scrutiny, and he has found his room to maneuver with Putin sharply constrained by his party.

In early 2017, Congress passed sanctions to retaliate against Russia’s election attack.

Trump lobbied to weaken them, and when they passed by vetoproof supermajorities, he was reportedly “apoplectic” and took four days to agree to sign the bill even knowing he couldn’t block it.

After their passage, Trump has failed to enforce the sanctions as directed.

Trump also moved to return to Russia a diplomatic compound that had been taken by the Obama administration; announced that he and Putin had “discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit” to jointly guard against “election hacking”; and congratulated the Russian strongman for winning reelection, despite being handed a card before the call warning: “Do not congratulate.”

More recently, as Trump has slipped the fetters that shackled him in his first year in office, his growing confidence and independence have been expressed in a series of notably Russophilic moves.

He has defied efforts by the leaders of Germany, France, Britain, and Canada to placate him, opening a deep rift with American allies.

He announced that Russia should be allowed back into the G7, from which it had been expelled after invading Ukraine and seizing Crimea.

Trump later explained that Russia had been expelled because “President Obama didn’t like [Putin]” and also because “President Obama lost Crimea, just so you understand. It’s his fault — yeah, it’s his fault.”

During the conference, Trump told Western leaders that Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia because most of its people speak Russian.

In private remarks, he implored French president Emmanuel Macron to leave the European Union, promising a better deal.

Trump also told fellow leaders “NATO is as bad as NAFTA” — reserving what for Trump counts as the most severe kind of insult to describe America’s closest military alliance.

At a rally in North Dakota last month, he echoed this language: “Sometimes our worst enemies are our so-called friends or allies, right?”

Last summer, Putin suggested to Trump that the U.S. stop having joint military exercises with South Korea.

Trump’s advisers, worried the concession would upset American allies, talked him out of the idea temporarily, but, without warning his aides, he offered it up in negotiations with Kim Jong-un.

Again confounding his advisers, he has decided to arrange a one-on-one summit with Putin later this month, beginning with a meeting between the two heads of state during which no advisers will be present.

Even though the 2018 version of Trump is more independent and authentic, he still has advisers pushing for and designing the thrusts of Trumpian populism.

Peter Navarro and Wilbur Ross are steering him toward a trade war; Stephen Miller, John Kelly, and Jeff Sessions have encouraged his immigration restrictionism.

But who is bending the president’s ear to split the Western alliance and placate Russia?

Trump’s determination to conciliate Putin can’t be dismissed as casual trolling or some idle attraction to a friendly face.

It has a serious cost: He is raising suspicions among the public, and among probably some hawkish Republican senators, whose support he very much needs against Mueller.

His motive for these foreign-policy moves is obviously strong enough in his mind to be worth prolonging an investigation he is desperate to terminate.

There is one other way in which Trump’s behavior has changed in recent months.

As Mueller has plunged deeper into his murky dealings with Russia, the president has increasingly abandoned the patina of innocence.

Trump used to claim he would be vindicated, and his advisers insisted his periodic fits sprang from an irrational resentment that Mueller was tarnishing his election and obscuring his achievements.

Trump barely puts much effort into predicting a clean bill of health anymore.

He acts like a man with a great deal to hide: declining to testify, dangling pardons to keep witnesses from incriminating him, publicly chastising his attorney general for not quashing the whole investigation, and endorsing Russia’s preposterous claims that it had nothing to do with the election at all.

(“Russia continues to say they had nothing to do with Meddling in our Election!” he tweeted last month, contradicting the conclusion of every U.S. intelligence agency.)

Trump’s behavior toward Russia looks nothing like that of a leader of a country it attacked and exactly like that of an accessory after the fact.

“After” could be optimistic.

The logic of Russia’s role in helping Trump has not changed since the election.

If Trump’s campaign hired hackers to penetrate his opponent’s communications or voting machines, they would risk arrest.

But Putin can hire hackers with impunity.

Mueller can indict Russians, and he has, but he can’t arrest them unless they decide to leave Russia.

Outsourcing Trump’s hacking work to Putin made perfect sense for both men in 2016, and still does.

And if you’re Putin, embarking upon a coveted summit with the most Russophilic president since World War II, who is taking a crowbar to the alliance of your enemies, why wouldn’t you help him in 2018 and 2020?

Ever since the fall of 2016, when Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell privately turned down an Obama-administration proposal for a bipartisan warning to Russia not to interfere in the election, the underlying dynamic has been set: Most Republicans would rather win an election with Putin’s help than lose one without it.

The Democrats, brimming with rage, threaten to investigate Russian activity if they win a chamber of Congress this November.

For Putin to redouble his attack — by hacking into voting machines or some other method — would be both strategic and in keeping with his personality. Why stop now?

Meanwhile, the White House has eliminated its top cybersecurity position.

That might simply reflect a Republican bias against bureaucratic expertise.

But it might also be just what it looks like: The cop on the beat is being fired because his boss is in cahoots with the crooks.

Shortly before Trump’s inauguration, according to Israeli journalist Ronen Bergman, Israeli intelligence officials gathered at CIA headquarters, where they were told something astonishing: Russia, the agency believed, had “leverages of pressure” over the incoming president.

Therefore, the agency advised the Israelis to consider the possibility that Trump might pass their secrets on to Russia.

The Israelis dismissed the warning as outlandish. [bold]Who could believe that the world’s most powerful country was about to hand its presidency to a Russian dupe?[/bold] That the United States government had, essentially, fallen?

A few months later, Trump invited Russian diplomats into the Oval Office.

He boasted to them that he had fired “nut job” James Comey. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

At the same meeting, Trump passed on to the Russians a highly sensitive intelligence secret Israel had captured from a valuable source inside ISIS.

It was the precise danger Israel had been cautioned about.

Do we have to first declare that what the Cyber attack was an act of war before any of these things these fuckers has done can be considered Treason?

Like many of the suspicious facts surrounding Trump’s relations with Russia, it was possible to construct a semi-innocent defense.

[italic]Maybe he just likes to brag about what he knows.[/italic]

[italic]Maybe he’s just too doddering to remember what’s a secret.[/italic]

And as often happens, these unwieldy explanations gained general acceptance.

[bold]It seemed just too crazy to consider the alternative: It was all exactly what it appeared to be.[/bold]

Thank you

giving them Aid and Comfort

Let’s get a demonstration going! Thousands surround the White House ahead of the creep’s return. Refuse to let Trump back in. Show the world we’re paying attention!!

R427, The treason script is already getting publicity, to wit:

"Obama knew. Obama did nothing. Blame Obama for Russian interference in 2016. But there was none; it's a hoax. Fake News. Fat guy in the basement."

What was on the missing thousands of Crooked Hillary's emails? Collusion with the Russians to steal the Presidency? Why hasn't she testified under oath yet about those missing emails?"

"But anyway, spying on other nations is SOP. The United States has interfered with the elections of other nations. You think we're so clean?"

"Putin is fine, he's fine. Semi-foe, economically. Getting along with Russia is a good thing. Why does Germany pay Russia billions for gas if we have troops in Germany to protect them from Russia?"

"The EU is our foe. They take advantage of us. NATO nations must pay more, their fair share. They take advantage of us. Not fair."

I love r509's idea, but helicopter.

Former Congressman Joe Walsh, a coo-coo bananas Tea Bagger, has been going off on Trump on Twitter today. I feel kind of ill having to agree with him.

Yes, there should be more peaceful anti Trump protests. Where are the nationwide Anti Trump rallies and demonstrations? Why are only people outside the US allowed to gather and demonstrate against Trump? All there is in the US are the Women's March.

Trump and Putin are going to talk about the Mueller investigation and the Mid terms. He will also discuss Syria and the North Korea debacle. Possibly China, then talk about how much money his resorts ar e losing and when will he get his next installment of Russian rubles.

As way of thanks Trump has given an exclusive interview with The Sun in which he threatens any trade deal with the US is off, blames Sadiq Khan for terrorism in London, tips Boris Johnson as the new Prime Minster and refuses to condemn Russia for the death of a British citizen using Novichok.

It's difficult to know where to begin with the interview, which should be preserved in formaldehyde for generations after the nuclear apocalypse to understand the deleterious effects of social media and reality television on the brain.

Here's five of the most astonishing points from it.

Trump claims he's a more popular president than Abraham Lincoln

Trump is sad he doesn't hear the word England enough

Trump claims to have predicted Brexit, the day after the result

Trump really really likes the Queen

Trump tells his host on the front page of a national newspaper she has wrecked the trade deal he was there to negotiate

[quote]Former Congressman Joe Walsh, a coo-coo bananas Tea Bagger, has been going off on Trump on Twitter today.

Borat recently unhinged him even further.

[quote] Why does Germany pay Russia billions for gas if we have troops in Germany to protect them from Russia?"

He knows that the investigation is about to close in around him. Which is why he repeated this ridiculous claim on Friday during the press conference with Theresa May. And that was after Angela Merkel -- the real leader of the free world -- had already explained why Trump was completely wrong about his unproved, erroneous assertion.

The posts from R493 onward are a wonderful summary of the evidence that has been thus far revealed. And we know that there is more that Mueller possesses and has not yet disclosed. This is going to make a fascinating series of books when this is all over -- provided that the Orange Buffoon hasn't blown up the world before he can be removed from office for treason.

Why would Boney Spurs confront Putty, his handler, about Ruskies being indicted and demand they be extradited?

Why is the media asking unrealistic questions when they know better?

R518, no one - not even the media - believes the moron will demand extradition. But now they have put him on the spot and on the record with that issue. Of course he won't ask for it, which makes him look even more subservient to his handler.

Nation wide protests are planned for July 18 about the Supreme Court, that trump is under investigation . Move on and indivisible are two groups organizing it.

Excellent, R520!! A pResident under serious criminal investigation for treason should not be naming any Justices to the Supreme Court of the United States. We do not need people on the Court appointed by a traitor.

Even before getting to treason, there remain unanswered (actually, officially unasked) questions about: the relationships among the nominee, the family of the retiring justice, and the family of the president; quid pro quo arrangements; and cookie-smelling abilities of the nominees (pictured below, center).

We will see if Trump has a Deutsche Bank connection to Kavanaugh and Justice Kennedy.

So - do we really all think that the most likely Russian assets are going to be allowed to flip and give evidence and get away unscathed?

I find it hard to believe that many will ever be allowed to go to trial. Too embarrassing for Vlad and the Cheeto, easier if they just are neatly disposed of. And of course - what a clear message to send to anyone else that’s thinking of betraying them...

My bet is on Mannafort. Maybe Flynn? And Cohen?

They all know a lot - and I reckon at least one of them will have a ‘heart attack’ or ‘stroke’ - or suicide as they’ve been ‘so depressed’. Or a car accident or something like that.

These are very high stakes. And as the investigation draws ever closer...

R524 my guess is that one if not more of those people, and don't forget Kushner, has already flipped and given up what they need to to try to save their own asses.

I disagree what Drumpf is worried about any of it though. He's too much of a demented sociopath. He's probably gotten reassurance from Daddy Put Put that it will all be okay and that's all he needs to hear.

Now you have me wondering if Manafort's violation of bail conditions was a ruse for him to get more protection without being obvious about it.

[quote]Trump and Putin are going to talk about the Mueller investigation and the Mid terms.

One of Joy Reid's guests this morning (I believe she was a Russian journalist) said something to the effect that she thinks Trump and Putin will plot to either again throw the election to the Republicans or, as Putin's "gift" to Trump, they will actually try to help Democrats this time as a way of giving Trump cover that he and Putin are in cahoots together (not to mention it would give Dump the chance to play the victim of a fixed election). Personally, I can't see Trump going along with option #2 as that would mean helping Dems attain a great deal of power -- enough, in fact, to potentially upend his Presidency -- so if anything I think they will try to help the Rethugs hold on to the power they have.

[quote]Personally, I can't see Trump going along with option #2 as that would mean helping Dems attain a great deal of power -- enough, in fact, to potentially upend his Presidency -- so if anything I think they will try to help the Rethugs hold on to the power they have.

Dump doesn't really have a say in anything that Daddy wants to do, does he?

And as someone upthread mentioned, I'm more worried that he would declare Dems winning as being assisted by the Russians and then declare Martial Law.

Excuse me, R527, if I call total bullshit on that. Neither of that Russkie’s theories are happening. Something far more sinister is likely.

r513 hasn't been paying attention.

Okay, R529, I'll bite.

What is even more sinister?!?

IT is reasonable to suspect the the Republican Party was a front for Russian/Putin interests for years, and Trump just found out about it. Trump is just the most recent beneficiary of Putin's funding. This explains everything:

-Bush and Cheney's devotion to Putin

-The Republicans Party devotion to Putin

-And the strange fear that Republicans have of Trump, especially high ranking members (McConnell, Ryan) and donors (Koch, Mercers).

How many Senators need to be implicated in the Russian investigation to virtually guarantee impeachment? How possible is this?

R525, Jared is a very smooth and brazen liar, especially by omission. I wouldn't put much credence in anything he said.

Apparently, one of the big cheerleaders for the Trump-Putin meeting was Benjamin Netanyahu. Ostensibly, this is part of the whole freakish Israel-Saudi Arabia-Russia alliance to contain Iran, but you have to wonder if Netanyahu is also just Putin's type: a massive crook who is easy to blackmail.

R534 you actually think Kush can outsmart Mueller? No, hon. He may have TRIED, there's no way he got away with it without them straightening out his ass first.

I do believe there are some double agents in congress. But I have to believe that Ryan and McConnell will some day be in prison.

What congressman went to Russia? There are some criminals and traitors...hopefully they will land in jail.

The kushners got their ass handed to them by chris christie.

I do like to think about both Ivanka and Jared being paranoid about one another and trying to figure out if the other is trying to rat the other one out while they're doing the same.

Jared is Uncle Benji's man on the inside. So it's not just Putin directly influencing White House decisions.

we have been doing just fine with demonstrations. We have had safe, well ordered demonstrations, and they have been massive. You better listen to Trump. When he says people "better be careful" or WTF ever he is looking for an excuse to institute martial law and suspend the Constitution. He is looking for provocation. Don't give it to him. The marches for specific issues are exactly what we need. Peaceful demonstrations are our right, and we have had massive turnouts all over our country. As bad as he was Nixon did believe in the Law and the Constitution. He violated it and yet he was governed by it. Trump doesn't believe in the rule of Law and wouldn't recognize the Constitution if it bit him in his ass. He is a Thug. A rotten Son of a bitch. All of you who are saying "why don't we have demonstrations" mus have been asleep the past two years.

I love this side of her.

As far as I know, nearly as many demonstrations as Vet Nam, or equal rights. But still we need even more demonstrations in front of any Trump building. Trump is a seriously hated man and he needs to know it.

[quote]Trump is a seriously hated man and he needs to know it.

He doesn't care. As long as people are talking about him and he's getting attention do you really think it bothers him? This is a man who believes the sun was shining on him when it was clearly overcast... the man is delusional enough to just convince him protests against him are fans cheering for him.

Hard to believe that the indictments were just a few days ago.

What do we think? Is it going to be another long, dry, spell of waiting or do we think things are going to start moving more quickly?

R545: He does care that he is hated. However, instead of facing reality and changing himself, he changes his reality to be what he wants it to be... These delusions make him extremely dangerous. Who knows what fucked-up/delusional scenario he will decide to believe each day and act upon?

Confront Putty about the fate of the Pee Pee girls. Did he harm them to shut them up?

R546: The latter. Rosenstein and Mueller know they don't have time to draw things out. I expect more indictments, of Americans this time, this month or next.

I hope they won't wait till October, we need relief now, our country is dying.

I honestly think if we get more indictments in October the Rethugs will spin it and say that Mueller is doing it to impact the elections. Of course the Deplorables don't care when they do it themselves but if it looks like it's going to harm THEM then they'll start screaming for Martial Law.

R550: October is too close to the midterms. The belief is they wanted to wait until after the midterms in hopes that the House would flip before Mueller's report. However, now - time is of the essence. The target is August or September, the latest.

[quote]The target is August or September, the latest.

Where are you getting that? Is that speculation? Wishful thinking?

Speculation by many

Patience, especially this week. We aren't even past the little rendezvous in Helsinki yet.

Anyone like to knit?

Oh the humanity!

Since we were sharing fantasies earlier. One of my fantasies is that Mueller targets Ivanka and we get to witness them coming for her with handcuffs. She runs to the door to have daddy protect her and he shoves her out the door, into the arms of the police, with that smug, defiant, baby look of his because, "better her than me," and slams the door in her face.

You know he would.

Mueller, who is brilliant -- as are the people he has on his team -- wrote the indictment very carefully and with great purpose. It is no coincidence that there are no Americans named in that indictment. There is a perfectly plausible reason for it: this one was about the Russians. Sure. OK. And the WH has weakly tried to use that line but realized it's not entirely true because there are Americans mentioned in the indictment, just not named as defendants -- yet.

But you would be mistaken if you think there weren't people all over this town soiling their pants on Friday once they realized the level of detail that Mueller has available to him. Some of them may have had their lawyers call Muller to try and play "Let's Make a Deal." That will work for some perhaps, but, as one of our colleagues alluded to up-thread, people like Manafort are on the horns of a dilemma. Do they spend the rest of their wretched lives in jail or do they squeal like stuck pigs and risk get killed by one of Putin's agents (probably along with some members of their families).

So, when will the next round of indictments come out? It likely depends on what additional information is needed and what is provided by some late-comers to the party.

There will be many twists and turns before this is all done. Considering what they have done to this country and the world, we should delight in the misery they are now facing.

R558, I WOULD LOVE THAT! Right out of "I, Claudius"

So, when can we buy some Baby Trump balloons here in America? I imagine they'll be a real collector/novelty item.

I heard that there will be a steady stream of indictments, which is normal with an investigation this serious and large. The only tactical difference is that the State's DA offices are heavily involved investigating other crimes, such as, tax invasion and fraud of the treasonous scum inner circle.

Why indict a trump scum of obstruction of justice on a treason investigation, if trump can just pardon them? It would be better to get them on state level crimes.

Share some of your fantasies or who do you think will be the first American after this round to be indicted?

R562: Stone, Cohen...

Anyone know who Alexandr Dugin is and if he is important in any way?

[quote]I honestly think if we get more indictments in October the Rethugs will spin it and say that Mueller is doing it to impact the elections.

Oh, who the fuck CARES? They're never going to write you a thank-you note or send a gift of organic jam.

Then you missed the rest of that, R565 and the point.

[quote]Jared is Uncle Benji's man on the inside. So it's not just Putin directly influencing White House decisions.

Just a reminder

Strong argument. "Trump may deny collusion. But given that this the attack continues, denying it is collusion, distracting from it is collusion, obstructing the investigation of it is collusion — because all these things enable it to go on."

We really need to make a push away from the word collusion. It's conspiracy.

Thank you

it's goddam motherfucking TREASON!!

My list of who I want to see get an indictment by the time this is all over:

McTurtle and his "wife," Eddie Munster, The Senatrice, Nunes, Chaffetz, Rand Paul, Daddys little blow up doll, her husband, brothers, and bestie, Hannity, Dershowitz, both Sanders and.... who am I missing?

No, r566, you are missing the point.

But we understand you have a lot of concern.

Don't forget Kellyanne, R572. And Bannon. And Miller.

And Eric Prince. And the Mercers.

Nice try, R573, but you did miss the point. Try again.

And we know exactly what you are R573.

[quote]who am I missing?

Gomer, Pinhead, Coach, Huckbeast, Guiliana, Stoned, Smessions

R572, you forgot Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the traitorous NRA leadership. I want them taken down as much as any elected Republican.

Oh how could I forget KAC. I'm still perplexed as to why Drumpfy has kept her around.

And I also forgot Miller.

Ok, so I've actually sat down and read the entire 29 page Mueller indictment against the 12 Russian intelligence officers, and it is totally insane. I literally can't believe the scope of this thing. I'm making this status public (i.e., shareable), because people need to know about this shit. There is no way you can read the actual indictment and not conclude that 1) there WAS a RUSSIAN conspiracy, 2) that the scope of that conspiracy was GARGANTUAN, 3) that it was organized BY THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT [i.e., there's no way Putin didn't know about this], 4) That people connected to the Trump campaign [and, shockingly, other U.S. Gov't officials] WERE INVOLVED, and 5) this is just the beginning. If Mueller has already uncovered this amount of information with such specificity regarding the goings-on in far-away Russia, there's NO WAY some serious shit isn't going to hit the fan going forward right here in the U.S.

So, without further ado, here are the highlights:

Article 1 of the indictment states that the Russian government actively set up multiple intelligence units (known as the GRU) with the sole aim of interfering with the 2016 election. Two of these units, 26165, and 74455, were specifically tasked with acquiring and releasing stolen documents via hacking.

Article 2 specifically calls this a "conspiracy" and states that the 12 indicted Russians had contacts with "persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury."

Article 3: The aforementioned Russian intelligence units deliberately targeted the Clinton campaign.

Article 4: They deliberately targeted the DNC as a whole.

Article 6: In June of 2016, they released TENS OF THOUSANDS of hacked documents using fictitious online personas.

Article 10: One of the intelligence officers, Boris Antonov, oversaw a department within 26165 tasked with hacking the U.S. military, governmental (i.e., political) and non-governmental organizations. [i.e., they were spying on every level of our gov't].

Articles 12-18: The Russian hackers often used various online aliases, both male and female, such as (but not limited to) "Kate Milton," "James McMorgans," and "Karen Millen." Sergey Morgachev, another Russian hacker, was a Lt. Colonel in the Russian military. He created the hacking malware used by dept. 26165, known as "X-Agent." Another hacker named in the indictment, Nikolay Kozachek, was a Lt. Captain in the Russian military. Artem Malyshev (also named in the indictment) was a Second Lieutenant in the Russian military. Aleksandr Osadchuk (also named in the indictment) is a Colonel in the Russian Military. He oversaw the creation and dissemination of anti-Clinton material online.

Article 19: Russian Military Officer Aleksey Potemkin, assigned to 74455, supervised the creation of fake social media accounts used (among other things) in the release of DNC documents.

Article 21: Over 300 individuals affiliated with the DNC were SUCCESSFULLY targeted. (Article 21 is lengthy, and includes a detailed, play-by-play account of how 26165 and 74455 achieved their aims. Spoiler alert: It's crazy).

Article 24, subsection B: The Russian's hacking of the DNC was so advanced that they were able to monitor individual computers in real time. Subsection C states that their malware sent actual screenshots of DNC computer activity to a server in Arizona that the Russians had access to. They were also able to capture keystrokes entered by DCCC employees.

Article 24, subsection D: They monitored individual DNC / DCCC employees for hours on end, and obtained information about DNC fundraising plans and even banking information (as well as other personal information).

Article 26 subsection A: By June 2016 the Russians had complete access to 33 DNC computers, totally and completely.

Article 27: The GRU gained access to information regarding DNC opposition research, field operation plans, and the Benghazi operation.

Article 28, subsection B: Aside from the server in Arizona, the GRU also stored data to a server in Illinois, to which they filtered large gigabytes of stolen information via a program they developed known as "X-Tunnel."

Article 32: The DNC became aware of Russian attempts to hack their servers and hired a security firm to identify the extent of the intrusions. The security firm (identified in the indictment only as "company 1") also put in place measures to halt GRU access to DNC computers, but, despite this, the GRU was so efficient that they continued to maintain access via "X-Agent" well through October of 2016.

Article 33: The GRU immediately became aware of "company 1's" (referring here to the security firm that the DNC hired) efforts, and took countermeasures in response. This included investigating / hacking "company 1" itself, and later, apparently as a retaliatory measure against the DNC, setting up a wesbsite that redirected from a DNC online political donations website, to another website set up by the GRU (in other words, the GRU took funds from DNC donors, using the pretext of a false DNC donations website).

Articles 35-36: The GRU set up another website, the sole purpose of which was to release stolen DNC documents. They created fake social media accounts that falsely attributed this website's creation to a group of "American hacktivists." It received over 1 million hits.

Article 37: The GRU has also released stolen documents dating back to 2015 (i.e., they've been up to this for quite a while).

Article 40: The notion of a "lone Romanian hacker" being responsible for the DNC leaks was a fiction deliberately created by the GRU and disseminated via fake social media accounts.

Article 42: Using a popular blogging site, the GRU set up a blog that used the most "searched for" keywords by conspiracy theorists, (e.g., "Illuminati," "Worldwide," "Conspiracy," et. al.), -and used this website to further disseminate the "lone Romanian hacker" conspiracy theory. (Article 46 of the indictment further states that later entries on this blog site posted articles positing that the released, stolen documents had "nothing to do with Russia.")

Article 43, Subsection A: An individual the indictment identifies only as "a known member of congress" contacted an online GRU dummy persona, ("Guccifer 2.0") and requested stolen documents related to their political opponent, and the GRU / "Guccifer" responded by giving said member of congress access to the stolen data they were requesting.

Article 43, Subsection B: The GRU released stolen documents to what the indictment identifies as "a lobbyist and online source of political news."

Subsection C: "Guccifer" / The GRU sent stolen documents pertaining to the "Black Lives Matter" movement to a reporter (unidentified in the indictment), to which the reporter not only responded, but offered to write an article using said information.

Article 44: The GRU, posing as "Guccifer 2.0" wrote to a person who was in regular contact with SENIOR MEMBERS OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. (The indictment includes direct quotes of their online conversation, and this is CLEARLY referring to Roger Stone).

Article 45, subsection B: The GRU, using an alias, contacted a U.S. reporter (unnamed in the indictment) and ultimately gave them access to stolen DNC data.

Articles 47-49: Here the indictment refers to an organization, identified only as "Organization 1," [I'm thinking, Wikileaks] -which actually reached out to the GRU aliases seeking the stolen emails / data. "Organization 1" is directly quoted by the indictment as having communicated to "Guccifer," that they should "send [Organization 1] any new material [i.e., stolen data] here for us to review and it will have a much higher impact than what you are doing." Organization 1 was given, and later released, said data, approximately 3 days before the Democratic National Convention. In total, between October and November of 2016, over 50,000 stolen documents were released.

Articles 50-79 : Lists the counts against the 11 Russian Military Personnel, which include charges of 1) Conspiracy to Commit Offenses Against The United States, 2) Aggravated Identity Theft, 3) Conspiracy to Launder Money [according to the indictment, over 95,000 USD$ was laundered], i.e. using cryptocurrency, that was then use to register domain names, set up websites, create server infrastructure, et. al.,3) The Use of Transferred Money To Commit Crimes Against The United States, 4) General Unlawful Conspiracy [It should be noted that many of these counts have sub-crimes attached to them, such as unlawful hacking, etc.].

So, there it is folks. This WAS A RUSSIAN CONSPIRACY, massive in scope, directly linked to the Trump campaign, the sole aim of which was to subvert Democracy. There is no way around it.

Link to new thread for when this one fills up:

OP, I recall either you or another poster has the data on how fast each thread has maxed out. To you or that poster, do you mind posting it again? It feels as though the second half of part 33 and part 34 in its entirety represent some pretty fast and voluminous posting.

[quote]We can only start by facing the truth. And the truth is that our Constitution has no remedy for a cheated voted. Ok then. Brush ourselves off, work with the facts, and win the next election!!!!!!

How do we WIN when they will keep cheating?? This is the dilemma.

[quote]you are wrong. MANY have been saying EXACTLY that since the election. And it’s understandable, but that line of thinking MUST be shut down within our ranks because it becomes ammunition for the Rethugs. Hillary CANNOT be a “do-over.” And I voted for her. Our Constitution has no provision for this scenario. It sucks. This is why we must WIN.

And again, yeah we need to win - HOW CAN WE DO THAT WHEN THEY KEEP STEALING ELECTIONS and hacking into everything?

[quote]How can we say they’re wrong for cheating, and then turn right around and cheat back? Nope, that’s stupid, and we can still win without doing that.

Rly?

I admire the brio of this poster, here, who's so firm in their belief that Dems can win the next two major election cycles this year and in 2020, and thereby correct all these mistakes. But again - how will they win if the cheating continues? It's like a chicken-egg situation.

It needs to be stopped NOW.

R587 I'm not the one with that info but this current thread 34 to thread 35 took 2 days, which is quicker than normal. It usually averages about a week before a new thread is started.

Wow R585! Thanks for the summary!

R545, Trump loves to stir things up and disrupt things. The demonstrations are proof he is doing just that, so in that sense he loves that he is causing all of this chaos and thinks it's proof he is effective. It's a form of bullying to him. We're all "cry babies" because we're pissed off at him. He gets off on that. His attitude is "go fuck yourself." The man is a monster.

r560 and others asking about Trump balloons here in the US: Claude Taylor on twitter is readying a bunch of Trump baby flyables in various sizes, for purchase. Some will be large enough to fly over a house, others will be smaller Mylar balloons for about $10 apiece. Check out his feed. .

Exactly, R591. I still maintain he doesn't care if people hates him. As long as he's getting attention and a reaction, that is what matters to him.

Thanks, OP at r589. When the impeachment starts, and thus a new set of threads, I propose all of the DC DLers meet at Nellie's to celebrate.

R595 funny, I was going to say in an earlier post that Jesus, I feel like I've been through something with this and some of you have been fighting it right alongside me and I was going to propose that we do get together because this shit has been exhausting and deep.

R594: That will be EPIC! People will take off work to watch the news. Hell, they were leaving work and watching on their work computers for the 12 Russian Indictment announcement last Friday.

Link to new thread when this one maxes out.

r587, yes OP is correct

My Treasons Are Not My Own (The Mueller Investigation Part 33) started July 8 and was filled in five days.

The Treasons a Baby Cries (The Mueller Investigation Part 34) started July 13 and was filled two days.

Part 34 was the second fastest to fill, after the first one, First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation, filled in one day, from October 27 to 28, 2017.

The average number of days it takes to fill a thread is now 7.65 days.

and I will be at Nellie's

closing

Link to new thread.