Wimbledon 2018 - Part III

Someone mentioned doping in the other thread. I posted this in Thread II. Thought I'd repost here since this was the penultimate posting in that thread:

I'm not sure what to think about PEDs in tennis. Serena has been accused of juicing, so has Nadal, Henin was plagued by those rumors and ultimately retired early. I'm inclined to think they're probably all taking something. There were many rumors that Djokovic finally started doping when he had his marvelous 2011, and that he did it knowing Nadal was doing it. But so far in tennis, at least at the upper echelons, there are only rumors.

Rumors, though, often lead to finally getting evidence. Lance Armstrong is the lead example. Marion Jones is another.

But rumors don't always lead to definitive proof. To this day, although never proven, most people think Florence Griffith Joyner was doping, and it's hard not to think that she was given her records from 1988 are still standing, and the only time they were threatened was by Marion Jones, a confessed doper. Also Griffith Joyner retired in 1989 when it was announced that random, out-of-competition drug testing would be the new norm. Her untimely death at age 38 due to an epileptic seizure, too, was labeled suspicious, but the autopsy didn't find any evidence of PED use.

Michelle Smith, the Irish swimmer who stunned everyone in 1996 by winning several golds seemingly out of nowhere, never tested positive for a banned substance. However, she was banned for 4 years for allegedly tampering with a urine sample, and her husband and trainer, a Dutch discus thrower, had been suspended from his sport due to steroid use. She remarkably improved her times after training exclusively with her juicer husband. She's probably a doper.

Some of us are here. Work it out girls!

I weep for a tennis world where Isner is a GS champion.

I'm not sure what to think about PEDs in tennis. Serena has been accused of juicing, so has Nadal, Henin was plagued by those rumors and ultimately retired early. I'm inclined to think they're probably all taking something. There were many rumors that Djokovic finally started doping when he had his marvelous 2011, and that he did it knowing Nadal was doing it. But so far in tennis, at least at the upper echelons, there are only rumors.

Rumors, though, often lead to finally getting evidence. Lance Armstrong is the lead example. Marion Jones is another.

But rumors don't always lead to definitive proof. To this day, although never proven, most people think Florence Griffith Joyner was doping, and it's hard not to think that she was given her records from 1988 are still standing, and the only time they were threatened was by Marion Jones, a confessed doper. Also Griffith Joyner retired in 1989 when it was announced that random, out-of-competition drug testing would be the new norm. Her untimely death at age 38 due to an epileptic seizure, too, was labeled suspicious, but the autopsy didn't find any evidence of PED use.

Michelle Smith, the Irish swimmer who stunned everyone in 1996 by winning several golds seemingly out of nowhere, never tested positive for a banned substance. However, she was banned for 4 years for allegedly tampering with a urine sample, and her husband and trainer, a Dutch discus thrower, had been suspended from his sport due to steroid use. She remarkably improved her times after training exclusively with her juicer husband. She's probably a doper.

I like this thread better because of the Isner jinx photo.

So do I, R5. So do I.

There are two threads where should I yap in my horrible English ? this one or the other one ?Decide which is official ?

[quote]So do I, [R5]. So do I.

me too

ESL, this one had you in the OP’s post, so you should stick to this one.

Oh and your English is far from horrible, ESL. It’s far better than that of many Americans especially that of Trump voters (not a high bar mind you).

Stay here, r7 (ESL), because we wanna jinx Isner.

Jinx Isner!

yesterday's Nadal - Delpo hug

Jinxing Isner is goals.

That’s sweet, R13.

Today's Kerber v. Ostapenko match got a little scary for Kerber toward the end. Kerber was up two breaks in the 2nd set and then she started to tighten up, while Ostapenko began to pull her game together. In the last game, with Kerber serving for the second time to close the match, Ostapenko made two bad unforced errors, essentially giving the win to Kerber. If instead Kerber had gotten broken again, the match could have really slipped away from her (as it did for Halep against Ostapenko in last year's French Open). Kerber can't afford to have that kind of lapse with Serena on Saturday.

R16, who do you think would be tougher for Serena to beat: Kerber or Ostapenko?

Oh, Johnny, put your shirt on ..nobody wants to see that.

[quote] Oh, Johnny, put your shirt on ..nobody wants to see that.

Ivan’s would.

[quote] Oh, Johnny, put your shirt on ..nobody wants to see that.

Ivanka would.

R17, I'm not R16, but I think who would be tougher for Serena to beat between Kerber or Ostapenko depends on which Serena shows up. Kerber is steady and gets a lot of balls back. If Serena's serve is off, Kerber could beat her is Serena is making a lot of unforced errors. Ostapenko, on the other hand, can hit with Serena. When Ostapenko is on, she can blast anyone off the court. But like all big hitters, Ostapenko is streaky and could litter the court with UEs.

My guess is Kerber will give Serena a tough time UNLESS Serena is serving lights out. I think that match is a tough call.

I forgot Isner did the ESPN Body Issue

Thanks, R21.

What is DL’s favorite major?

Wimbledon! US Open is too commercial and Roland Garros injures too many people. Australian Open is just the US Open's less rich cousin

Oh, Johnny, put your pants on. Nobody wants to see that.

R17, I agree with R21. Ostapenko has the power to hang with Serena, but she's not that great a mover and would eventually be littering the court with unforced errors. Also, Ostapenko's second serve is pretty weak and inconsistent, and I could see Serena teeing off that. Kerber, on the other hand, should be able to absorb Serena's power and has more variety in her shots, which could throw Serena off her game. Still, if Serena serves like she did the other day -- winning 75% of her SECOND-serve points -- I don't think there will be much that Kerber can do.

[quote] Oh, Johnny, put your pants on. Nobody wants to see that.

Jared does.

I understand the hate for Isner, but I find him hot, OP pic notwithstanding.

Lacoste, sweetie darling. Lacoste.

It's not just that Isner is a Trump supporter; he also has one of the most boring games on the tour. I have nothing against big servers as long as they as least have something else going on with the rest of their game, but the rest of Isner's game is just plain ugly. He's like the male version of Betty Stove.

Kerber was the only player who can challenge Serena. If Serena doesn't serve well she is toast because Kerber has a very good defensive game. The last time they played was two years ago in the Wimbledon final. Serena won, but Serena is far from that player so Angelique should have a chance

R25, the Aussie Open is far and away the most fun of all the majors and the favorite for many on tour...

I wouldn't say Serena is FAR from that R32. I'd put her at 90% of her pre baby level

Betty is a lot butcher, R31.

And remember that Kerber isn't quite back at her peak level either. 2017 wasn't a very good year for her and, in fact, this is the first tournament where I believe she's finally playing close to where she was in 2016, yet the confidence isn't quite there yet.

LOL, r35! I'm just glad that my reference to Betty wasn't lost on everyone although, this being DL, I guess I shouldn't have worried. You might remember that Betty suffered quite an ignominious Wimbledon in 1977, losing in all three finals: ladies singles, ladies doubles, and mixed doubles.

R31, I also laughed my ass off to the Betty Stove comparison. Perfect! Thanks for the laugh!

Betty is the Angela Lansbury of tennis

Team NODAL!

I'm with you, R40. If Nadal wins tomorrow, I'm not going to watch the final. No one on the other side can beat him, although someone on the other side could pull an upset over Djokovic.

Isner and Anderson can defeat Nadal on grass. On other surfaces he could be unbeatable for them but on grass he is beatable. And inspired day on serve it's all that they need (and not choke)

[quote] Betty is a lot butcher

I read that as Betty IS a butcher.

[quote] Betty is the Angela Lansbury of tennis

Wow. Uncanny.

I grew up watching Betty, Francoise Durr and her ridiculous serve and Soviet doll Olga Morozova.

And Durr's forehand was also a sight to behold. They sure don't make 'em like that anymore.

R45, did Olga have other dolls nesting inside her?

Also laughing at the Betty comments! Very ‘Dutch butch’. met her once at the US Open and she’s very friendly. Announced by Serena at the presser: Meghan Markle will cheer her on from the Royal Box on Saturday.

Favorite Slam: the US. Although, that may admittedly be a hangover from when I first started to watch tennis. The French was ruled by baseliners, Wimbledon by big servers, so the US was the great neutralizer. (Aussie was clearly 4th of 4, because the top players didn't always play it.) Nowadays, with baseliners winning Wimbledon, and serve & volley all but dead, I guess the US doesn't stand out in the same way.

I also loved watching night matches back in the 90s. When I first found courts with lights on them, I'd play with my friends under the lights, and felt like I was playing US Open night sessions. Always made me excited to play/watch.

Favourite GS, Roland Garros. Hey, i'm spanish it's in our genes to love Roland Garros (even the french crowd boo our players every year)

Interesting read. I had always wondered why The Duchess was no longer presenting the trophies. I had wondered if she passed away. I miss the Duchess, and I miss Bud Collins. Wimbledon is a little less fun without them.

For you, r45

Thanks for the link, R51. The BBC made a moving tribute to Jana Novotna between the two semi finals today, and they interviewed the duchess. She said they remained friends after Jana’s Wimbledon finals. The duchess seems like a sweet lady.

Saw Betty play at the Slims of DC in 1976 and she took a set off Chrissie. They played in a gymnasium in Fairfax. Betty took almost no back swing and muscled winners. In the 3rd set she came in on crazy shots and Chrissie nailed the ball at her feet. She was loved by the crowd and we gave them a long ovation. The Secret Service was there cuz Chrissie was spending the week with Jack Ford. Good times.

[quote] I grew up watching Betty, Francoise Durr and her ridiculous serve and Soviet doll Olga Morozova.

Edda Buding is pictures with Francoise on Durr’s Wikipedia page.

That slut Chrissie!

Pictures = pictured

Great article, r51. Thanks for sharing it.

The problem with the US Open is that the actual tennis has become an afterthought, secondary to all the merch, concession stands, expensive day passes which are these days more of a status symbol than a means to enjoying top-quality tennis. My partner and I used to travel from Toronto to NYC every Labor Day weekend to enjoy tennis but stopped a couple of years ago when it truly became tedious. We bought primetime Arthur Ashe tickets only to be constantly distracted by the bridge-and-tunnel audiences who didn't care about what was happening on the court but were constantly walking around, even during points, to go to the bathroom, buy hot dogs and beer, loudly yammer about the ongoing football games, and so on. I think we left before the matches were over because it was absolutely impossible to enjoy it. The audiences at European slams have far more respect for the game. Hell, I've been to some smaller scale ATP Tour events where people had far more respect for the game.

Also, r59, Arthur Ashe stadium is an abomination. With all those luxury suites, the audience in the upper levels of the stadium are so far removed from the action. When I go to the U.S. Open now, I prefer going just during the first week to watch the matches on the outer courts and I avoid Arthur Ashe.

Does anyone how the shot clock will work? For example, if the server is interrupted by noise or some hecklers (US OPEN, I am looking at you) does the shot clock stop? Does the server need to serve under whatever time is allowed no matter what?

[quote] Some of us are here. Work it out girls!

OP here. I didn’t realize another thread had been started. I apologize for starting this one. I am a frequent “worse than Hitler” poster, and today I am worse than Hitler.

Those are good questions, r61. I'd also want to know when the clock starts. Does it start immediately at the conclusion of the previous point? (Of course, if there's a challenge, I would assume the clock wouldn't start until a ruling was made on the challenged point.)

I hope Nadal wins. I utterly loathe Isner and hope he is defeated forthwith.

[R63] I have looked for some information but I cannot find any specifics. I think the clock starts from the moment the point ends. The 25 seconds (not sure) is the maximum time from moment the point ends till the server finally serves. At the USO it will be a mess if the spectators do not shut up. Will the umpire reset the clock?

I miss the old Grandstand at the US Open, and to a lesser degree, Armstrong. Like R60, I go in the first week and stay clear of Ashe. (1) It sucks, and (2) matches scheduled there for the first several days are usually horrible, like Serena vs. Carina Withoeft of Federer va. Miriam Basic. I'd much prefer seeing a competitive 1R match rather than a blowout by a Top player. (Side note: I'm very happy Slams are returning to 16 seeds, too.)

While the USTA has done a nice job with the new outside courts (Grandstand, 17), they're lacking the character of the old courts.

The 25 second serve clock starts from the point after the score has been announced from the prior point. (Or when the chair announces "time" for the first point of the game.)

The chair does have the discretion to pause or reset the clock if for instance there's crowd noise or debris that falls on to the court. (Said another way, players will still have something to bitch at the chair ump.)

I just question the necessity. Yeah, I know Nadal and Djokovic can get pokey, maybe a few others too. But it's never really distracted me from a match.

[quote]The 25 second serve clock starts from the point after the score has been announced from the prior point.

The downfall of Tennis is complete!

[quote] Federer vs. Miriam Basic

Is she Mirza's sister? ;)

For a second there I thought you typed Mirka, R69, because she is indeed quite basic - basically fat! Tehe.

Lol, fucking autocorrect, R69

From the last thread:

[quote]Aren't feminists offended that women only get to play 3 sets in GS? Shouldn't they fight for the chance to play 5 sets so they won't be treated differently than men?

The new tactic is to lobby the ITF to get the slams to reduce men’s best-of-fivers to best-of-threes. Courtney, and especially Ben, have already started.

Ben's been advocating that forever. Here's the thing - the argument that's been used re: equal prize money is that sports is entertainment, and in what other form of entertainment do you pay performers based on length of performance? So they should really stick with that argument instead of getting twisted in the Best of 3 vs. 5 debate.

As for Best of 5 for the men, why change it? I like that fitness becomes a big factor at the Slams, and there's less random results by playing Best of 5. I think his arguments come down to health and scheduling, but frankly I don't see issues there that need to be addressed outside of introducing a final set tiebreak.

As for the unending debate on prize money: Part of the problem is I think the women are afraid of the equal prize money debate because the men are currently drawing more fans. Instead, they need to embrace the cyclical nature of the sport. In the early 2000's, the women were arguably the bigger attraction. In five years time, who knows which side will be more popular? So just pay them equally at the Slams and be done with it. Outside of the Slams, it's up to each Tour (ATP vs WTA) how they want to compensate based on the level of event at each tour location.

The US Open is by far the worst. The stands are often empty, the crowd uneducated, and the poor players are forced to talk about how HARD it is playing at the US Open OR how much they LOVE New York and NYers. BARF

If it's entertainment and payment is based on that, then they should pay the women based on their ratings, which are not nearly as high as the mens' ratings.

In the US, French Open ratings were pretty even between the men (1.1 rating, 1.62 million viewers) and women (1.0 rating, 1.45 million viewers).

Frankly, with numbers like those, players are lucky they're being paid as well as they are!

The stereotype of US Open crowds as a bunch of State Island and Brooklyn working class Italians heckling players and swilling cheap beer is more accurate if we were talking about 1985. My last few visits the crowd was much more international and knowledgeable than in the past. I do agree that Ashe is designed almost solely to make money, however.

Two things I enjoy about Wimbledon are the lack of music between games and on-court interviews. Both are pointless and annoying.

[quote] The stereotype of US Open crowds as a bunch of State Island and Brooklyn working class Italians heckling players and swilling cheap beer is more accurate if we were talking about 1985. My last few visits the crowd was much more international and knowledgeable than in the past. I do agree that Ashe is designed almost solely to make money, however.

I don't know what it was like in 1985, but I'm talking about 2015 (or maybe 2016?) Most of the audience on Ashe was there to get RF merchandise and eat while largely ignoring the match. Andy Murray was playing the evening match, 3rd or 4th round, I forget, and those bozos had no idea who he was. I think that a lot of those types are only aware of Federer, Serena, and, to a lesser degree, Nadal. For all they cared, there could've been a bear riding a unicycle on the court or a Thai hooker shooting ping pong balls out of her vagina.

DL fave Ronan Farrow, son of Frank Sinatra, was at the Ostapenko-Kerber match with an older woman who is not his mother.

For [R61] and [R63]. (R67] covered the main things but here's the ATP explanation.

If at any point women's tennis is or was clearly more popular than the men's game, we'd know about it, as it would be endlessly and triumphantly quoted. The silence is the clearest evidence that, barring the odd special match once a decade or so, it manifestly isn't.

Chissie really was a slut..good for her

Difficult to say, R82. Usually the data people look at in the U.S. is TV ratings for Grand Slam Finals because it clearly draws a line between women's and men's play. (Whereas a random Day 4 of Wimbledon or Day 7 of the US Open features both genders, so who knows what people are tuning in for.) If you go by that measure, the women were outpacing the men for much of 2013-2015, a period where Serena dominated the women's game and in 2015 was going for the Grand Slam, while Federer had faded behind Djokovic and Nadal. For instance, the US ratings were higher for women at the 2013 US Final, 2014 US final, 2015 Australian Final, etc. It happened pretty regularly.

But what does that really mean? It's US-specific, and as we know tennis is a global sport. Plus it's measuring only two days of a two week event.

So how do we assess "popularity"? Li Na was huge in China, Halep is huge in Romania, Del Potro is huge in Argentina, Djokovic is huge in Serbia - how does that get measured? "Popularity" can turn on a dime, based on which players are playing in a specific match; for instance, the 2015 US Open Women's semis (Williams vs. Vinci) were more "popular" than the finals (Vinci vs. Pennetta) if we look at fan attendance and US TV ratings. So you can basically cut the data in multiple ways to support whatever argument you want to make.

R68: 25 seconds are more than enough to serve. But i hope they implement the rule with common sense, it's not the same wasting more time at the beginning of the match than after 4 hours

When a match is suspenseful like the Aussie Open 2012 men's final (Djokovic v. Nadal), I don't mind a slower tempo of play between points. But when a match is boring and lopsided, I wanna scream, "Come on, just got on with it already." A serve clock can help correct the latter type of matches, but it also could detract from the former type of matches until players get used to it. Just my opinion, but I think players (even Nadal) will get used to the serve clock faster than we think they will. I was surprised, for example, how relatively quickly players seem to adjust to tiebreakers when they first were introduced.

I'm not that sure, he is reacting really bad to everytime he gets a time warning. He knows the warning is correct but that doesn't stop him to shout and protest. With a clear rule and a clock he'll change, because those reactions will be bad for his image (when everybody can see that he is wrong). He'll adapt to the rule, but i don't think he'll adapt without at least a couple of bad reactions

Wow 20 minutes and only three games

R87, I think the problem in the past is that the time warnings weren't consistently enforced by different chair umpires, which then of course leads to players arguing and protesting. The serve clock will ensure more uniform enforcement and, yeah, players will look like jerks if they start arguing with the serve clock. It would be like continuing to argue a line call when Hawkeye has already shown that you were wrong. So, I could be wrong, but I think even players like Nadal and Djokovic will adapt quickly to the serve clock.

R84, I'd suggest there is enough current and historic evidence for LTA/WTA attendance and ticket demand, relative viewing figures, and similar figures for Slam days for a moderately competent statistician to come to a clear general conclusion. It wouldn't be that complicated a piece of research compared to most of what they do and it wouldn't cost much. It doesn't happen because everyone involved knows what the result would be and they don't want to go there.

Has Dump shown up yet to watch his big fan Isner?

Anderson wins the first-set tiebreak!

R90, regarding attendance: when all 4 of the Slams, and half of the approx. 20 WTA "premier" events are combined men & women events, how do you get any semblance of an accurate attendance figure for men's vs. women's tennis? The majority of the women's only events are the smaller "International" series events, which don't have the top players present, so it's a little misleading to tally only those numbers.

There would be a similar challenge for viewership numbers since most of the largest events are co-ed. I suppose streaming numbers from ATP vs. WTA coverage would be helpful, but again, that's only a small percentage of viewership.

Sure, my guess is that viewership and attendance are more interested in ATP action vs. WTA action. And I agree that the WTA might not be too interested in a real deep dive into this at the moment. But I don't know how you can parse those numbers based on the current structure of the tours.

Male and female tennis payers get the same pay only at certain select events. Overall, women make less. So if you are really militant about maintaining a pay gap, I don't think that you have much to worry about. It's definitely there.

I was rooting for John but now that Kevin has won the first set, Kevin should finish in three set . I want this side to win in final meanwhile other semis should go in five hour marathon

John dropped his first set against Raonic in a tie break and came back strong

Justin Gimelstob looks like such a douche in his suit and sunglasses.

who is good looking guy in light blue suit and black goggles in Isner box? His side piece? Can any American gays tell me about that guy?

R97: Well, he is an homophobic douche so he looks exactly the way he is

Justin GimelsKNOB is a Class A douche. Please, Anderson, take out the deplorable Isner!

Everyone laments the state of the WTA, but what state is the ATP in if someone like Isner has a chance to make it to the Wimbledon final? UGH.

of course Anderson botches the 2nd set tiebreak....

ugh just checked h2h and it's heavily in Isner's favor. I thought it would have been closer. Anderson hasn't beaten him in 6 years

this match is SO BORING

C’mon, Anderson!

Anderson breaks, has a chance to serve for the 3rd and gets broken back. dafuq

Anderson-Isner is more sedating than even ketamine. There's no K hole. Just Isner's hole.

What a boring match. That players like Anderson and Isner can make semi-finals shows the poor state of the game these days.

Oh damn. Anderson had a set point but then double-faulted. Now he's down two sets to one.

Ugh. Isner wins the third.... Blah.

MAGA

Eww isner is up 2 sets to one

Anderson works really hard. Actually wins the advantage and the promptly gives it away. He will brutally kick himself for a long time when he looks back at this one,

ugg Nadal/nole winner is so going to win the whole as winner of this semifinal will not have thing left in his tank for the final

Ugh, of course Anderson plays lights out against an out-of-form Federer, but he can't even hold his serve when he's up a break or close out a set point against servebot Isner.

I wouldn't be so sure, r114. The Nadal v. Djokovic match could easily go to five sets with lots of long rallies, leaving the winner likewise exhausted.

Ain’t both of them servebots?

Can't imagine this match is too taxing even if they keep going to tiebreaks. Isnt it just serving and maybe many points go up to three or four rallies?

R93, these are not remotely difficult problems for a competent statistician. Making allowances for the different venue sizes, ticket availability, number of rounds and so on to produce meaningful figurers for comparative purposes would be pretty simple for them. It isn't an insane number of variables, For Slams, they could focus on the later stages when men or women usually play quarters, semis and finals on different days.

R118, it might not be as physically taxing as a match between two baseliners, but there's gotta be a lot of mental fatigue, especially having to play tiebreakers.

R118 and R120

Do you play tennis? Powerful serves are generated by the legs. Doing it for 3+ hours will kill your legs-- that's the reason why the serve is always first to go when a person is fatigued. It actually explains why Anderson isn't performing as well today as he did during his match against Federer.

Geez, he can break Isner twice and can't hold. After holding over and over, come on...

They are pro athletes. They should be fit enough to play a relatively long match get a day break and come back to compete refreshed. If not they need to train harder.

Of course they recover, but to say that it isn't taxing to "just" serve is false.

R121, I still think that a grueling match between two baseliners will be more physically taxing. Think of Nadal v. Djokovic in the 2012 Aussie Open final. Both men could barely stand at the end of that. I don't see that same kind of physical exhaustion between two serving machines like Isner v. Anderson.

I'm not disagreeing with that. Baseliners still have to serve, after all. I'm just correcting the assumption that serving is not physically exhaustive.

Back to the match. If Anderson can't convert this break, I'm turning this off!

40 - 0 Anderson and loses 3 points in a row and FINALLY consolidates and wins the set. Come on, Kev.

R126, well your comment -- "Do you play tennis?" -- was directed at both me and r118, and all I said was that a serving duel might not be as physically demanding as a match between two baseliners.

I love a good fifth set

I have to think Isner is getting a bit more tired. He's looking like this long match is affecting him more. But Anderson sure has battled his nerves a lot in consolidating breaks and serving out opportunities.

2 sets all. Given that there is no tie-break in the fifth set, I could easily see it go to a 22-20 scoreline, Nadal and Djokovic will have to come back tomorrow, no?

Now there's no tiebreak. I want Anderson but ultimately I want either to break so we can get to the Nadal/Nole match. Dont want a 50-48 set.

R131, I was just going to post that possibility. I hope they move them to another court. I want Nadal as fatigued as possible.

Please let this 5th set have less than 16 games.

Yeah, the last thing I want is a repeat of Isner v. Mahut.

Nadal will never play on something other than Center Court

They would shut the roof and make it a night match if needed I believe

I knew that the Isner-Mahut match was long but I didn't know the 5th set was 70-68. Holy fuck.

Justin is same guy who commented about Domi's ass. right? If I remember correctly he only told that Domi take all the power from his ass .

R139 what?

[quote]Please let this 5th set have less than 16 games.

Fewer.

Yes he talked in a homoerotic way about Thiem's butt and when realized what he did live on air basically said "no homo."

And it was over three days R138

Is rafa cunting at Locker room ?

They really do need to make all Slams have a 5th set tiebreaker for the men and 3rd set breaker for the women. No one ever wants to see another Isner-Mahut abortion of a match. That was ghastly.

I believe the term is “ tremendous tuckus”

Good question, r144. For someone as OCD as Nadal, a match like this has gotta wear on his nerves.

I don't care who wins now. Just please put a stake in this horrible match so we can see Nole/Nadal.

[quote] I believe the term is “ tremendous tuckus”

I thought he said that of Jack Sock?

This could go on forever ugh.

[quote]I thought he said that of Jack Sock?

no, it was Thiem

ESPN really needs to stop showing shots of Gimelstob.

Does gimelstob not realize how much of a total dBag he looks like standing after every point??

How does Isner get away with basic groundstrokes that look like THAT at the professional level. I HIT BETTER THAN THAT!

R154 he looks kind of amateur when he isnt serving.

In 1993, Ivanisevic was booed at the Paris Open when he served a gazillion aces and a trazillion service winners. TPTB realized the courts and balls had gotten too fast for the racquet technology and starred to slow everything down. Indoor carpet disappeared, hard courts were slowed down and Wimbledon’s grass was slowed to a treacle pace.

This horror of a semifinal between Anderson and Isner (!!!) is one of the consequences of that mad rush to slow everything down, and will be as pivotal a moment in forcing a rethink as that Paris Open was.

Bring. back. real. grass!!!

Billie Jean King vs. Margaret Cunt

Why does Isner keep adjusting himself?

He’s got a big knob!

Isner is one the most annoying players to watch

r159 Exactly the opposite. Sadly I have to do the same.

R156, wouldn't bringing back "real grass" make the game quicker, and therefore lead to MORE Isner/Anderson-type matches?

Dear God, this is never going to end!

Two days later: 68-68, Isner to serve...

This is so dumb.

To the poster who said that great servers come from the legs- yes! It's all part of a process called pronation, where racket head speed and forward momentum are maximized from the legs up to the shoulder for the maximum whiplash effect to the head of the racket. The wrist must also be kept loose- grip the racket just tight enough to keep it from being thrown out of your hand. The racket head snaps over the ball. In fact the entire body except for the legs stays as loose as possible for maximum racket head speed. It's like cracking a whip. Peter Sampras was the master of the service motion in the modern game. Actually, service production has not changed much. Great servers like Gonzalez, Ashe, Sampras, and Isner have pretty much the same stroke productions. What has changed is that the rackets are a bit lighter and more powerful- they do not absorb force like wood used to.

Over five hours watching two guys with little “star power “, no wonder Americans hate tennis.

Anderson team

Isner is so stiff now. Can hardly walk. But his serve will continue to bail him.

In 2018 Wimbledon ladies' doubles final Kveta Peschke, partnering Nicole Melichar, will face Barbora Krejcikova and Katerina Siniakova neither of whom had been conceived yet when Peschke played her first Wimbledon in 1994.

Last time Isner had a loooong match in Wimbledon he was defeated in easy three sets in the following round. Unless Rafa and Nole had a terrible long battle, the winner of this match won't have a chance against the winner of Rafa/Nole

Has nole started cunting in locker room yet?

i wonder what nole/Rafa "locker room talk" would be like ?

15 all and weren’t not talking abou a score for a game.

I doubt Nole or Rafa get nervous just because they have to wait, they have tons of experience. Zverev was bashing Rafa on Rome, but after the rain the only one on court was Rafa

It's past time for stodgy ole Wimbledon to institute 5th set tie breakers. It is the greatest tournament in the world- but they can be a bit slow to modernize (like the monarchy). However I hope they never commercialize the way the US Open and Aussie Open have. Just the discrete Rolex logo and all else green and flowers everywhere.

I think Isner will win. He has the advantage of being the first to serve and Anderson proved that he had trouble in holding his serve after a break

R174, which Zverev?

Anderson had two breakpoints so far in the final set. Isner had none.

This is why the us open is the best slam

R177: The Zverev who played the Rome final

[quote] This is why the us open is the best slam

Why?

There's a tiebreak in the final set to keep this dumb shit from happening.

I don't see the problem with a long fifth set if it's in the final rounds, the problem here is that you don't watch tennis only serves

The boys semifinals between Draper and Mejía is 13-12 in the third

Break him Anderson!

No such luck (and the one who loses oportunities end losing the match). Draper had match points too but Mejía save them

I hate Isner. He got my hopes up.

Anderson looks the fresher of the two, but John has to just serve bombs and he'll stay in this match.

Wimbleton

Why don't they move the match of those entitled diva to court no 1?

Damn. This is kind of ridiculous.

STILL BORING.

These guys are not even serving double faults

Someone break. Literally dont care who at this point.

Puig!

Drape and Mejía are competing with Anderson and Isner, 15-14

Why are people still watching this? Are you all into BDSM? This would be torture.

We really need to get to the main event. Can't the fucking tournament just decide to do a tiebreak right now? I'm sure both guys would agree to it. Neither wants to be gassed for the final.

This match is now irrelevant. There's no way the winner will be competitive on Sunday even if Djokovic and Nadal of a semi hard battle. Which sucks.

Damn, the whole world is going crazy in England today.

"Sorry, I had a thirty minute appointment with some American couple, carry on boys" says the Queen

And the worse thing, THE WORST THING, is that the moment Anderson gets the break, you know he won't be able to hold his serve.

Servebots like Isner ruin tennis

Isner still loves Trump.

Isner fucking sucks. He's literally just a serve and is a horribly ambassador for the sport.

I did not know Anderson played NCAA.

If this were dynamic and compelling tennis than this would be great and few would complain about how long its lasting. But its not.

FUCK THIS SHIT!!!

Heineken, R207?

I bet whoever wins this will wish there had been a final set tie break.

Tseng won the junior semifinal 63 61, he will play tomorrow against the winner of Draper- Mejía 18-17 in the third. It's not very difficult to predict who will win the junior boys final

How many times did Isner start his service game at a 0-30 lead only to serve like 4 bombs straight bombs to close out the game!

Draper won 19-17.

I think Nole - Rafa match won't even start today

R211 it's been a few

Whoa, Isner's speaking voice. He sounds like a dork

Here is Kevin's chance to close the match.

Who are the gays in Anderson's box in the back row? They're handsome boys!

Please hold, Anderson, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!

Break! Now let's hope R201's scenario does't happen. Again . . .

OH GOD HE BROKE

If he is not able to close now i predict they will play till the next mass extinction

Please, dear god, Anderson; bury Isner on this break!!!!

I think after this match they should just close the roof and play it like a night match. Of course because that makes sense, the tournament officials will NOT do it.

I like to imagine that everyone is cheering because they see an end in sight....

Anderson has been holding comfortably this entire set. If he doesn't end this now... FUCK HIM

Please hold

Bury him!

Excellent, Kevin! Down with the Trumpettes!

Anderson!

Finally!

Finally and end to this shit show, and the deplorable American loses to boot!

Suck it Isner!

^an end

Yay!

Puig!

Oh God! Do I love to be proven wrong!

Kevin is such a classy guys . So much respect for his opponents . Even after such grueling match they embraced at the nets . You will not these thing in WTA. Ekatrina Bychkova was right

Oh dear, who is that handsome man wearing the navy polo in Anderson's box? Lovely!

It's curious that in the last years instead of teen prodigies we are getting veterans that suddenly improve. Second GS final for Anderson

Roof will be CLOSED for Djokovic v Nadal when it starts

r238, yeah, it's really telling that all of the men's semifinalists are in their 30s.

Kevin Anderson has now reached two slam finals in the past year and he'll rise to a career high of #5.

When indeed?

Hope Anderson has enough in the tank for the final. Needs to do whatever he can to recharge till Sunday.

r236: That happens in juniors and u16 and u14, the boys can be bratty and even have an aggressive behaviour on court, but once the match ends there's a nice handshake and even a hug. With girls is all and endless drama and bad handshakes.

I was surprised by Lopatcheskaya at les petits as last year, she cried even during the match. I really felt bad for her because she cried after every point lost (even when she was winning). But what surprised me is that after that bratty and child behaviour she was already nice after the matche ended. She was nice with Gauff (who is as good as she is a drama queen) after defeating her, but even more important she was nice after losing the final. I hope they improve her behaviour on court because crowds are going to hate her if she behaves that way, and of course such drama will drain her and her chances (and she seems a good prospect)

His wife better not demand sex tonight or tomorrow night

I'm really happy for Anderson. It's not just that I've never liked Isner, but it's also that it was Anderson who took out Federer so it seems right that he should be the one in the final.

R238

It's the nature of the modern tennis game. Players now need to be at peak physical condition in order to compete now. It'll be increasingly rare for teenagers to have breakthroughs at a grand slam these days, let alone win the whole damn thing. Unless they're physical freaks of nature like Serena.

Becker was right about Kevin . He told that Kevin won biggest match of his career after 7 hours and all he talked about is John Isner. that show how much of a gentleman Kevin is . He earned so much respect from me

Yay, the pic jinx worked !

Tim Henmen looks so good . Becker who is not much old than him looks so old and haggard? What happened ?

Yes, r248, Anderson is such a gracious winner and genuinely nice guy. I, too, was so impressed with his post-match interview.

I remember the times where Andres Gomez was considered old to play a GS final when he is just 30.

The problem for teenagers is not physical (with some exceptions, but most juniors are physically strong) the problem is they took a good while to adjust their game. Most of them are able to play high level tennis during a while but not to sustain that level for long, and generally commit a lots of UE. I remember Donald Young when he was considered a big promise and he was incredibly inconsistent, he played fantastic one game and terrible bad the next (of course in Young's case the physical aspect was very importat because he was not tall or strong when he won his junior GS so compete against pros was a big big change)

[quote] Yay, the pic jinx worked !

If this thread makes it to 600 (which I doubt) by Sunday, I’ll start a new one with the consensus cover boy (likely Nadal or Djokovic) in order to jinx him.

They already closed the roof

Newport update:

OUT: Isner

IN: Granollers

Next: Young

I wonder if the roof is high enough for Nadal's banana whipped forehands.

Where can I watch Kevin's post match interview?

Djokovic for the jinx please!

[quote]Who are the gays in Anderson's box in the back row? They're handsome boys!

[quote]Oh dear, who is that handsome man wearing the navy polo in Anderson's box? Lovely!

I don't know who they are, but here's a gif of Anderson's box

Is this where we talk about Anderson’s box?

I know Nole is a great returner but Nadal’s service game is terrible!

They're already was a Part III thread started (before this one even) with Nole as the coverboy. So Rafa should win.

I think Nadal is going to end being thankfull the Anderson-Isner match was so long. He is having trouble with every serve

Nadal is the favorite to win over Nole so is playing with less pressure. i think he will win this.

Geez, i meant Nole is playing with less pressure.

R258 That's quite the upper arm blue polo boy is sporting.

R263: I wouldn't say Nadal is the favourite. On grass Nole is way more consistent and he has even a positive H2h against Nadal. Of course Djokovic came after a not so good season.

But it's true he has less pressure, in my opinion it's not because Nadal is the clear favourite but because losing against Nadal is not the same that losing agains Ceccinatto or Chung. He knows he can win, but if he lost nobody will write articles about how he had fallen (unless he receive a heavy loss)

Firts big test, serving for the set. Nadal is really good at return to serve, if Djokovic let his nerves control him he could end with his serve broke and that will send Nadal the sign that he is not that confident

Djokovic DOES look pretty confident. Nadal doesn’t look happy to be there—maybe it’s the roof.

The roof is supposed to make the court faster wich obviously benefits Djokovic. But i still remember when that happened at the Australian open final and everybody said that benefited Maria Sharapova and the an out of form Serena kicked her ass

Can someone please tell Nole he doesn't play a clinic?

Can someone please tell Nole he doesn't play ping pong?

Oh god, Djokovic in final?

Djokovic is quite obnoxious.

Isn't a little bit too soon to say something like that. With Nadal a match is not over till it's over, and they are even in the second set

Puig pong

Nole team.

Boobs out!

Nole recovered pretty fast

I think there will be some boob action occurring son.

Ugh, Nadal up a break in the 2nd.

Go Nadal! Vamos Rafa!

I love that Nadal has incorporated a crotch tug into his routine.

This is turning into quite the match.

Djokovic looks like he's throwing this set. Bad idea. Nadal will be brimming with confidence in the 3rd if that happens.

Now.....this is tennis. I love when these two go at it. Compared to the borefest we had before, this is heaven

Hot tall Anderson vs hot tall Isner was like porn.

And I always like seeing Nole and his sexy, lean body.

[quote] Djokovic came

On my face, please!

Nadal's ass looks so hot.

Noooooo!!!!! Come on, Nole. Take out the Spanish OCD spaz!

Are they going to stop now or are they continue to play till the end?

GO NADAL

Does Chris Fowler ever fucking SHUT UP????

DL loves to hate on Novak, but damn, he has the most beautiful groundstrokes in the game

There is some great shot-making in this match.

I agree, r292. His groundstrokes are so crisp and clean. Today, though, he doesn't seem to have the confidence to really crank some aggressive down-the-line backhands.

R258, nice! Now, we need to know the name of the hunk with the massive guns. Thanks!

wow he's pretty

If his demeanor matched the beauty of his ground strokes, then we'd love Djokovic, R292. Well, that and if he got rid of the boobs out embarrassment.

Is Chris Fowler being compensated by ESPN per word? He never shuts his mouth.

This match should have been the championship match.

Have we ever discussed Nole's wife? She is one annoying drama queen! And she needs to eat also.

R300 She gave the camera a death stare about 5 min ago. I guess she’s as nasty as her husband.

R301, I suspect that they are both very high-maintenance, very high-strung.

the grunting is so loud with the roof closed

this match will not finish tonight

R300 = Mirka

A. Zverev

They should finish it tonight.

Go Nole!

That tiebreaker was exhilarating!

I don't think that's possible. Unless Nole win the fourth very fast (wich i doubt)

Nole!

Suspending the match until tomorrow would seem to benefit Rafa. Nole will lose his momentum.

Nole team

Where’s ESL?

Nadal will win it all.

I think the benefit could go either way, R312. If the match goes to five sets, I believe the night's rest will benefit Djokovic, who I think isn't in as good a shape as Nadal.

R312: I'm not that sure, it's not like if Nole was dominating right now, the match was very tight. Tomorrow it could go either way

I just hope both players can pick up the match where they left off, with such high-quality tennis and exciting shot-making.

Wow, such a treat to watch two of the game's greatest go at it with high quality tennis. That was so much more enjoyable that that servebot borefest earlier.

Tomorrow is a tough call. The rest could benefit Nadal. However, although Nole won the tiebreak, he was looking a bit weary, so perhaps a night's rest will help him come out fresher? We'll see tomorrow. Too bad Federer faded against Anderson. A Federer vs Nadal or Djokovic would have been a worthy final. As it is right now, this match between Djokovic and Nadal is more like the final. Whoever wins will likely take the title.

Weeeeeeeel seeeeeeeee.

What a fucking embarrassment John Isner is to America. Is he really the best we've got?

I agree that Nadal or Djoker will most likely win against Anderson.

Jack Sock is the best American...

Ass wise.

R321, John Isner is an embarrassment because he supports and loves Trump. After everything that has happened since the election, anyone who still supports Trump is an appalling human being.

Not even, 322. Try Michael Mmoh, Mackenzie McDonald, or Francis Tiafoe.

R322, that is.

Did you read the second part of my post, R324?

Yes, R322/R326. Did you read my signature?

Tommy Paul, Escobedo and especially Tiafoe have way better asses. Tiafoe's is enormous.

What do you like or not like about Jack Sock’s ass. Analyze it please.

Isner doesn’t yet meet the Roddick standard of one major win to be in the International Tennis Hall of Fame.

It's not muscular, only doughy. Very pale. Probably smelly.

Who? What?

What time will the Djokovic-Nadal match re-start? There's a rumor that the tournament will make Serena and Angie wait until the men's semi-final is done.

....

[quote]What time will the Djokovic-Nadal match re-start?

I read 1.00 PM (London time) on Twitter...the women's final is scheduled 'not before 2.00 PM' so I assume after Nadal & Djokovic have finished

1:00pm (so 8:00am EST)

Isner's IQ appears to be approaching triple digits based on the link.

He is white privilege exemplified. I loathe him and his Trump-loving ass.

he's a white southerner

Has Donnie tweeted his regards to Isner's (not so) stunning loss to Anderson?

Gimelstob is more annoying in the player's box than he is as a commentator, and that's saying a lot. Fowler is even more annoying though.

So glad that deplorable scum bag lost in a heartbreaking way. Hopefully he never gets that far at a slam again. He already overachieved by winning Miami

Wimbledon and that stupid curfew rule. Stopping the match when there's a rough is beyond dumb and ruins momentum. Djokovic played pretty well and made Nadal pay for weak second serves

Do we dislike deplorables or Quislings more?

Part II of Nadal v. Djokovic is about to begin!

They’re back, and the roof is closed.

Meghan Markle in attendance.

Meghan and Serena are apparently 'best friends' ie they've met more than once

Meghan has better taste in husbands than friends.

Great, both players are starting off looking sharp. It's like a seamless continuation from last night.

This is such a giant f.u. to the women. I wonder who it might throw off more.

nadal totally exposed nole in this game

Uh oh. Djokovic looking very flat when serving and now looking flat on Nadal's serve. Djokovic isn't putting enough sting in his shots and he's hitting it too safely allowing Nadal to tee off. Plus Nadal is hitting the ball beautifully. Nole has got to turn it around or Nadal takes this pretty quickly in two.

Djokovic seems to have lost his focus and intensity after failing to break Nadal in the first game. I hope he can regroup quickly.

Djokovic will probably tank this set.

John Isner is 6 foot 10? Mercy me! (((fans self)))

And Kevin Anderson is 6 foot 8?

*faints*

I hate Nadal, but man, is he ever volleying well. Bastard.

I think Nadal's volleying is the most underrated part of his game. He really is quite a fine volleyer.

After reading the comments i thought Nadal was slaying but they are 3-3

R358, it really looked like Nadal was going to run away with the set, but then his level dipped a bit and Djokovic quickly regrouped.

Up and down match so far. Other than the first game, neither has played his best at the same time as the other.

Novak surrenders another break, but there are probably more breaks coming.

Fuck, this is going 5 sets. Huge advantage to Nadal.

I agree, r360. I keep on waiting for both to play well at the same time.

R362: Why? First, Djokovic defeated Nadal in the last 5 set GS they played, second, it could be an advantage if they play the five sets in the same day but not this way

I could almost like Isner for his tweet about Anderson and the match.

R364, if Nadal wins this set, he has the momentum. As a confidence player, I think it'll be advantage Nadal. But I sincerely hope Djokovic wins this.

Djokovic looks like he's doubting a bit too much. We'll see how he responds in the 5th, but whatever happens, I hope it doesn't go 24-22 or something ridiculous like that.

R:366 Sorry but that was proved wrong on the previous sets. That kind of thing works with some players, but Nadal and Djokovic are very strong mentally

Okay, here comes the 5th set. I hope both Nadal and Djokovic play well at the same time like they did last night.

Both had a lot of trouble with their serves in the fourth

How long do you suppose the Duchesses will want to sit in that heat and humidity?

That was stupid of Djokovic to hit his own foot so many time.

Here's to an excruciatingly long fifth set to even the playing field for Anderson tomorrow. Would love to see him take the whole thing rather than these two temperamental prima donnas.

Kate is a huge tennis fan. Not sure Meghan even knows what tennis is.

Anderson is gonna have tired legs. how do you recover after that?

The temperamental prima donnas know to play tennis, not just serve

So many unforced errors. Neither player has been able to sustain a high level of play. Mental fatigue from last night?

Anderson hasn't made it to two GS finals solely on a serve.

I agree Anderson is more than a servebot.

No doubt there is some mental fatigue. I think both players probably slept fitfully last night. Nadal sees this as his big opportunity to win yet another Wimbledon after years of crashing out early. Djokovic sees this as his big opportunity to turn the last couple years around and get back to the winner's circle at Slams. There is a lot riding on this match for both of them. It's certainly affecting the level of play today.

Sorry, but Anderson without his serve wouldn't reach a second week on any GS

One could argue Isner is more than a servebot going by the amount he served and volleyed yesterday.

R381 Well obviously it's his big strength but it's not like he can't rally and play other aspects of the game very well.

If Isner weren't overall execrable.

Nadal seems to have the edge in this 5th set. Wouldn't he have the edge fitness wise?

You're probably right, r381, but that's like saying Steffi Graf wouldn't have made it to the second round of a Major without her forehand. I think Anderson's game is more well-rounded than most people give him credit for.

R383: His all court game is weak, like Isner's game. Raonic is able to do something more but not that much

Djokovic's wife looks like she might start singing "I dreamed a dream in time gone baaaiiiiiii"

R386: Wrong comparission. Steffi was way more than her forehand, in fact her backhand is deeply underrated. Yes it was not an offensive skill but it was very uncomfortable to play, specially for tall players

Yea right, Anderson is nothing but a serve.

R387 no hes not an all court player but he is more than just a serve

R390: I didn't say he was nothing but a serve, i said without that big serve he is a very average player

You missed my point, r389. My point was that you can take away anyone's primary weapon and then easily claim they wouldn't make it to the 2nd round of a Major, but that doesn't really prove anything about how well-rounded their game really is.

Some of Anderson's forehands this tournament have been spectacular.

It seems Nole and Rafa are having less trouble holding their serves in this set

As evidenced by the former and current links, Anderson is far more than average even without his serve.

Sorry, but i watch hideous matches that look amazing watching the highlights

That was essentially a non sequitur unless you care to take it beyond false equivalence.

Both players are throwing in some clutch serves to save break points.

Fucking Djokovic! It was 0-30 with Nadal serving, then Djokovic made two errors to level it at 30-30. Then Nadal hit two fantastic serves. Seems like Djokovic is blowing his break chances, or potential break chances.

Sithole is a most unfortunate surname.

Do you know how the orcs first came into being?

R400, all the drama seems to be happening when Nadal is on serve. Djokovic is generally having an easier time on serve.

But Djokovic was the one saving break points lately

And now we have yet another example why they should have a 5th set tiebreaker at Wimbledon (add Australia and the French as well).

Djokovic is finally using his down-the- line backhand more to open up the court.

Djokovic blew too many potential break chances. He looks like he's fading now.

He had potential break chances, but Nadl is the one having break points

Why would one not want to watch an epic five-setter? Even despite the odd borefest, I really don't understand the wish to end matches. As for today, it's not like women's finals often last much over an hour. The crowd's getting its money's worth for a change.

Great Djokovic point.

Given the length of this semi-final, will either finalist have an advantage in terms of being tired tomorrow?

Djokovic can't buy a first serve.

Kevin A: a South African with a green card marriage. Quick, search the archives of the Bait Bus. He's gotta be in there somewhere!

They are grunting worse than some of the women.

These baseline exchanges are brutal!

Gutsy hold by Djokovic even though his first serve had deserted him until the last two points.

Djokovic finally gets a first serve in in the ad court and wins the game. The quality yesterday was better, but I still get fatigued watching these brutal baseline slugfests between Djokovic and Nadal. Djokovic needs to break here and end this thing.

A tiebreak in the fifth doesn't preclude epic 5 set matches. Going beyond 7-7 or say, 10-10 seems tortuous, unfair to players, and arguably to fans. And in this case and last night, to the players waiting to play on the same court.

Or is that just crazy?

The net cord is trying to end this.

This happens to Isner a lot. He is point shaving?

nole is so tentative right now

You're spot on, R418.

That was a really gutsy drop shot by Nadal to save match point.

Another blown break chance from Nole. I agree, ESL. Nole seems a bit tentative. You can't play not to lose. Djokovic needs to serve better.

Re the tie break, I like how Wimbledon used to do it at 8 games all for the first four sets. Maybe make that the case for all five sets. Imagine what it was like before 1971 when there were NO tie breaks for any set.

"Nole" needs to go full boobs out in the next game.

DJoJo and Nadal, now playing. I can't stand the tension! (I've turned down the sound on my TV, glancing over to it only periodically!)

When the men grunt it's natural and down to exertion.

When the women do it it's ugly and cheating.

Oh, that fall was costly.

Nole!

YES!!!!!! Incredible win for Djokovic!

Boobs out!

Ok, this is the one time that I don't mind the boobs out gesture.

We just watched the final.

Nole!!!

I'll be rooting for Anderson. Can the next thread be the Djokovic jinx thread

DJoJo!

Rooting for Anderson in the final but there is probably no chance he'll win. Djokovic is just such a asshat.

"The boobs out" gesture really has to go.

And what a match it was. Absolutely withering shots.

They're interviewing Djokovic now on ESPN. He looks like he might have been crying earlier.

Anderson team

Puig!

I suspect that if Djokovic hadn't had his elbow issues and mental issues the last couple years, Nadal's and Federer's Slam counts would be lower.

Can we gag Chris Fowler for the final tomorrow?

Can Kevin save the tennis and DL?

It feels like both Djokovic and Nadal should get trophies for that match.

OMG yesterday was longest semifinal ever in Wimbledon and today was 2nd longest semifinal of the Wimbledon

[quote] Can we gag Chris Fowler for the final tomorrow?

From your fingers to “god’s” mind.

Does anyone know why they have to play under the roof?

It's "Centre Court." All the big matches are played in Centre Court.

I volunteer to lick Djokovic's balls in victory.

Fingers Fortescue.

They said the ladies' final will we played with the roof open.

When is the women going to start? I have things to do today.

Protective gear is mandatory for ball boys tomorrow.

Now, R454.

I blew off my office job Thursday afternoon and flew to Vegas for 3 hours to bet $250 for Serena and $750 for the other chick. I haven't looked at the tickets to see the potential payouts yet (I will after the match), but I'm hoping the other chick wins. I know, I'm an idiot gambler. At least I played a $25 slot while I was there that won $2,000 and I left with $1,300 plus whatever I win today. lolz

R457 and how much was your flight?

Will that snazzy hat help Pam Shriver catch a man?

Are you going to watch the women's final or an old U.S. Open Djokovic/Wawrinka match on the Tennis Channel?

so sad. i wanted nadal to win.

Novak Djokovic "I'm in the FINAL. It is INCREDIBLE"

Match Point

r457, what are the odds.

And how much was the ticket to Vegas?

The boobs out gesture is no more annoying that Agassi's smarmy bow and blown kisses to each corner of the stadium

Djokovic is such a dick, crying about how he doesn't get a day off while Anderson does, neglecting to mention that Anderson's 26-24 fifth set might have been just a wee bit taxing.

My flight was only $162, plus $50 for taxis, food, $30 parking. The other chick was -188 and Serena was +200, I think, but I don't know how to calculate the odds. When I purchased the tickets I immediately put them in my wallet backwards, I want to be surprised after the match to see what I won, I imagine it's only about double, but that's fine. The winning amount is written on the front of the ticket.

That's a low bar when the charm/annoyance factor is a comparison between Agassi and Djokovic.

People with moles on their face shouldn't be rewarded in life. Put them down.

Some say Angie is our "sister." Are we rooting for her?

True, R469. But worse are neck moles.

Trolls are far worse than moles.

These jinx threads ruined my whole Wimbledon. It just wasn't the same. I became lonely and depressed that it seemed my Wimbledon experience ended after the first round. It felt like someone...I mean something was missing because of the threads. I didn't get to see my favorite young players. Players I mean. I'm such a fan of the game mostly. Yeah the game. Completely the game.

Hi Mole, you saucy chocha.

R449, they played the men's match under the roof because it started under the roof yesterday, to keep the same conditions.

Tiger Woods jinx in the Serena box.

r467, i see odds are -200 for serena and +range for kerber

are you saying that when you bet Serena was +200 and not the favorite. If so you got shitty odds on Kerber

The men had the choice to play with the roof or without it, and they had to agree. Nole pushed to keep the roof, to maintain yesterday’s conditions.

R477, according to the commentators, both Nadal and Djokovic had to agree to open the roof or it would remain closed. So, Nole didn't have to "push" to keep it open. All he had to do was say no. Nadal had to know that's what Nole would say.

R478, I’m only repeating what the commentators said, that Nole had advocated for the roof, and Nadal had not disagreed with him.

Serena doesn't have to stick her chest out to be boobs out. She is stacked up top.

Little off topic but any DL gays from UK tell me that the bbc series The three musketeers is a good watch or not ?I am feeling to lazy to start a thread about that .

I'm honestly surprised Serena is in the final; didn't think she was ready. The busted draw helped a little bit. Her game looks much better than at the French Open. And, though her ample rack is on full display, her Wimbledon outfit is miles better than the catsuit at the French.

Kerber's good - great defensively and can hit some aggressive shots when need be. And, she has won two Slams, so she's not a deer in the headlights.

R481, lots of twinkish eye candy, weak writing, weak acting except for Dr. Who.

Just seeing Tiger in her box makes me want her to lose.

It’s fun to see Kate and Meghan surrounded by lesbian champions and their partners in the Royal Box. Anyone know who Bartoli was talking to?

I wonder if they are each rooting for the other player to win. Surely Meghan is rooting for Serena being she went to her wedding. Would Kate perhaps root for the American mother or does she think pick Angie?

Of course Kate is rooting for the white woman.

Does Kate send Meghan out to fetch her a snack?

Serena not moving well at all. Kerber wins the first set.

r487, why would you say of course. It's a maybe. Mother to mother might make a difference. You've made some strange assumptions about the Future Queen

Kate's going to make Meghan fan her.

r488, that is William's job

Wow, Serena is playing FLAT

OK. I take that back

Serena's footwork isn't great. She's reaching too much.

great point

NOLE forever! Please get your 13th!

I'm so happy to see Serena lose in front of her fake BFF Meghan.

R485,Bartoli is talking to Daniela Hantuchová

to the poster that flew to Vegas to bet on this match. You need to know if you bet $750 on Kerber as the favorite or not. Because if it was as you posted, you aren't going to do so well.

r498, don't jinx Angie right now, it is not over

Can kerber finish this off or the load of moment will break her? We have time and time again SEREna coming back from defeat

great point

I hate the obligatory fall- to-the-ground-on-your-back-as-soon-as-you-win cliché no matter who does it.

The guy in the blue shirt is hot. Who is he?

boooo-yaaaaahhh! I flipped over my ticket and I won $2,100 because Kerber won. Going to the post office to mail my ticket now. Holla!

I love how Germany beat U.S. right now and I am American.

Love it Angie, back to 2016 form. The good old days 2016

It helps that Kerber is so nice and likeable. Also, she's pretty unknown for someone who's won three out of four of the Slams.

Woo! Would've preferred Nadal to Nole, but other results were good.

Happy for Angie. Nice to see her playing well again after a really miserable 2017 in which she looked totally lethargic and depressed.

Career Grand Slam for Kerber?

R510 - Is she any good on clay?

She lost only one set all tournament (to teenager Claire Liu in the second round). It was a quietly impressive two weeks for her.

So happy for kerber .Had zero expectation from her.She deserves every bit of her success and more

i'm glad they show you the inside of the buildings now. They never used to, back when I was growing up.

Who is this lady?

is that her coach ? who is in the white shirt? and blue shirt?

Wim Fissette, her coach.

r515, are you joking. That is that Margaret Court bitch.

Congratulations, R505.

When Kerber was on the balcony presenting her trophy to the crowd, there was a fat guy with a St. Olaf t-shirt. Is he a DLer?

Serena was horrible today lol. Her movement was woeful as was her return-of-serve. She let Kerber coast with those weak serves! That's un-Serena-like. It's still incredible that she was able to reach the final though given that she only came back on tour in March and had her baby last September with complications.

Kerber's defense was impressive as usual. She seems like a nice girl so I don't mind her winning. I'd rather her than Halep or Wozniacki again.

SO glad Djokovic took out Nadal. Now I want Anderson to win the ment's title

Random thought - aren’t Steffi Graf fans on message boards some of the most annoying people ever or is it just me ?

R522 - Sharapova fans are the worst

of course, Serena can't move well, she is fat, out of shape.

Kerber has now defeated Serena twice in GS finals. Has anyone else done it before, other than Venus?

Is there a list of players who defeated Serena multiple times in majors?

RG might be a reach for Kerber. She doesn't move that great on clay and she doesn't like high bounces.

Sorry for Serena losing, but at least she made it to the final. The older she has gotten, the more impressed I've been with her.

I almost don't care about the Men's final tomorrow; will be waiting for World Cup. Good luck to Anderson, I guess, since I've never warmed up to Novak.

Serena is in the press room right now and she looks like she has a moustache lol

R521 who could have thought Wozniacki would become more and more bitter after finally winning a grand slam?

Wozniacki's issue is she felt entitled to a slam after being No. 1 and winning so many other titles.

She's insufferable.

R530, exactly.

Her nickname being "sunshine" is hilarious.

r523 Sharapova and Serena's fans. Can't tell which are worse and more obsessed.

Serena's fans can be pretty bad. They can't handle any critique of Serena.

I am gutted for Rafa.

To the next OP, please use Djokovic's picture for the jinx.

so glad the Federer/Nadal 6 slam stranglehold on the ATP has come to an end. Djokovic is of course part of the big 3 but I'd rather him right now than those 2. Hopefully the USO will give us a young first time male winner. It's beyond time

R534 we probably won’t have a new thread for Wimbledon.

Or would we?

The "Sunshine" nickname for Wozniacki came when she was younger and not so much of a cunt. Then she became besties with Serena, and picked up an attitude.

Was Serena friends with Meghan before she married Harry?

R536, we probably will if the A, B, C. Zverev, Puig and Nole trolls visit.

R535, I used to be a fan of Djokovic before his uncontrolled anger and overall insufferable nature overtook his tennis old age. I'd rather see the title go to Rafa.

I do like that Sock gives doubles a good go; so few top players do these days.

That BITCH!

R540 Because top players don't always lose in the early rounds of the tournaments.

R525: Garbiñe defeated Serena two times at GS, but only one was in a final. Serena is a legend, but it's impossible that she is at a good level now. Of course, she was way worse at RG and she reached 4th round. Kerber was probably the worst oponent for her, Angie likes to construct the points, it's a great defensive player but has offensive weapons.

And sorry, but Williams fans are terrible on forums, they disrespect any player no matter how great they were. I try not to read those forums because i tend to forget that i really like Serena after three or four messages disrespecting Seles, Graf or Henin achievements

Enough of them do, R542, and then they jet off. It's a reasonable assumption that Sock actually likes playing doubles, surely. I don't like him at all, but that seems clear. Plus, he's actually good at doubles. I don't remember people sneering at Peter Fleming or Eric Van Dillen because they did better in doubles.

The Serena v Henin fan rivalry is the absolute worst. Possibly only topped by the Serena v Sharapova fan rivalry.

I'm mainly talking about tennisforum.com but it does seem to extend to every message board or comments section on the internet.

It's odd but I feel like the 2018 Wimbledon is done already and we have yet to play the men's final, LOL.

R546 Shows you what will happen if the next gen continues to disappoint and does not produce any big name or rivalry. The interest in tennis is going to drop significantly once Fed & Nadal are retired, this is unavoidable, but with the current state of play it might be harded than expected.

[quote] we probably will if the A, B, C. Zverev, Puig and Nole trolls visit.

What's "A, B, C. Zverev"?

[quote] That BITCH! —Popsicle

Why did Sock and Popsicle break up their doubles partnership? I haven't heard seen much of Popsicle lately.

John McEnroe used to take doubles quite seriously when he was a top singles player and partnered with Peter Fleming. I'm sure Fleming didn't mind he was a better doubles player. They won many a major together.

what really needs to happen is for the next gen guys to beat the big 3 at the slams. This will give them more fame and respect with the public.

Which ones do you consider the next gen guys that have "it" to take it to the level of the big four?

I wonder whether Murray will recover enough to win another major. It would be weird if Federer and Nadal retired, and Murray and Nole won a series of majors.

Sock wanted to focus on singles. He's never been in good shape so playing best of 5 at the slams + doubles wore him out easily and he broke up their very successful partnership. Popsicle, on the other hand, isn't good enough to just focus on singles and wanted to continue doubles. He now plays with Harrison.

Sock is only back to doubles because he's on a horrendous losing singles streak. If he were doing as well as last year he wouldn't be doing it.

I hope Coric can become one of the top players. He is the hottest player on tour and it would be nice to see his face all the time.

If Zverev can solve his slam issues and going 5 sets so often he can win slams. Tiafoe and Shapovalov are also immensely talented but not quite consistent enough yet.

I don't think Donaldson is anything that special.

Khachanov has a ton of power but his forehand can break down.

Coric is like Djokovic-lite. He could also be a big threat to win big titles.

Maybe, R547, but there are those of us like me who are sick to death of Fedal and Djokovic. I'd have skipped the final if it had been two of those three.

I think we'll see the Next Gen step up by next year. Against Khachanov, Tiafoe was playing lights out tennis in the third round before he got injured. Tsitsipas also seems ready to break through to the next level. A. Zverev and Coric still remain big question marks in the Slams, as they seem to lose their focus when playing 3 out of 5 in fairly quick sequence. Mmoh, Escobedo, Fritz and Rublev are even bigger question marks. I'm on the Coric train for obvious reasons, also Tiafoe, Tsitsipas, and Mmoh.

It'll also be interesting to see how buddies Shapovalov and Auger-Aliassime fare in the next couple of years.

I haven 't watched Escobedo play yet.

What does his ass look like?

I think Cljsters beat Serena in slams twice too

Exhibit A, R560...

Henin beat Serena four times at slams. Twice at the French, once at Wimbledon and once at the US Open.

None of these were in finals though.

There are a good bunch of talented players, but as Nadal proves again and again a tennis player is way more than his shots. By now Zverev is the best by far but unless he is able to overcome his problems at GS he won't be a threat soon. I think the only think that he needs is good two weeks and take that pressure off his shoulders. He is consistent the rest of the year, so probably he'll be a top player (if he is injury free) for years and years, if he is able to be a great champion is a question of time (but probably not much time, because if he doesn't step up next year i doubt he'll be a multiple time GS champion). Shapovalov has the skills, but god i hate his on court attitude, too aggressive for my taste. He, Tsitsipas, de Miñaur, Auger-Allisime, Kuhn (if he is able to return to form after the injury) all are very young and have time. Tsitsipas and Shapovalov are high on the rankings so maybe they are able to break soon. Others like Rublev or Tiafoe, have the potential but are inconsistent right now. And the older ones, Khachanov, Coric, they could break or became the Berdych, Dimitrov, Nishikori of that era. Coric could be very popular if he reach the next level

In fact Justine defeated Serena three consecutive times the same year in three different surfaces. That could have been the rivaldry the wta needed, because both were tough and the contrast of styles make their matches very attractive. Unfortunately they seem unable to be at the top of their game at the same time, and that made that they only had one GS final (after Justine returned from her retirment)

Interesting that you call out Shapovalov's attitude and aggression, R564, but not Zverev's. Of all the players you've listed, Zverev's (A., troll) stinks to highest heaven.

Rublev made a QF of a slam, so I wouldn't forget him. Others would be Tsitsipas, Shapovalov, de Minaur, Tiafoe, Khachanov and Fritz.

Plus Zvereva and Coric but they are already playing at a very high level.

It seems like we should add McDonald to that group even though he's a little long in the tooth at 23.

R565 - Their rivalry was ramped up by the personal stuff too; they really didn't like each other at all.

R566 Zverev is bratty and cocky, but Shapovalov had that body language, those screams, sorry he remind me a lot of Lleytton Hewitt who is a player i can't stand. Anyway Shapovalov is very young and i love his game, i think he has a lot of potential, but i wouldn't mind if he toned down a bit.

Anyway, a lot of male juniors show a lot of aggresivity on court (even when they are friendly after playing). I have to admit that i prefer more relaxed players like Federer, there's no need to scream or fist pump at every point, but right now it's something that almost every player does

R569: Yes, they really disliked each other but that makes an even better rivaldry. I think those feelings were a lot more relaxed after Justine came back (maybe Serena missed someone who really challenged her)

[quote] Yes, they really disliked each other but that makes an even better rivaldry.

Navratilova and Evert liked each other and were personal friends, but their rivalry was among the best ever. I think you're generally correct though.

Shopbottom

Jack Sock and Mike Bryan just won the Men's Doubles!

aggressivity?

Shopbottom at home in the Bahamas.

The Muppet version of Shopbottom.

Colombia's Robert Farah, who played at Wimbledon this year, was on Friday banned for three months and fined $5,000 after promoting a gambling website on social media, the Tennis Integrity Unit (TIU) announced. However, the 31-year-old, a runner-up at the Australian Open this year in men's doubles with compatriot Juan Sebastian Cabal, had his punishment suspended on the basis that no further breaches of the Tennis Anti-Corruption Program (TACP) are committed within the three months. The TIU said that in February, Farah posted a tweet endorsing an online betting company, in contravention of anti-corruption rules. "When contacted by the Tennis Integrity Unit, Farah removed the post, apologised for his error and co-operated fully with the investigation," said a TIU statement.

I REALLY hope during the USO series this summer we see a bitchfest of a match between Djokovic and A. Zverev. They only played once before. Now that Djokovic is getting his game back (regardless of what happens in tomorrow's final), there could be fireworks if he faces Zverev. They'll both be pumping themselves up, yelling at umpires if they don't like a call and possibly even each other.

Sure, R578, let's have them wear roller skates and try to wallop each other at the net with their rackets while we're at it.

Serena and her husband have said she's just getting started. Just getting started? I know its referring to her coming back but shes almost 37. Maybe she'll play till shes forty but after that age should be too much of a factor. I guess she might get three or so more majors.

I would love for them to play each other, R578, but I think them yelling at each other is unlikely. They seem to be on very friendly terms

Exhibit 1:

Exhibit 2:

what time is it on tomorrow? in the usa?

R583 9 AM EST just like the ladies' final. ESPN made a boo boo by just captioning it as the mixed doubles final lol

New thread. Djokovic is the jinx cover boy.

Let’s go Nole let’s go!

Capriati beat Serena in 4 majors too, on 3 different surfaces. On clay twice, grass and US hard courts.

Whak?