Yuzuru Hanyu and other figure skating talk

Hanyu pooped today.

R1 = Disgruntled Patrick Chan fan.

Thank you for creating the thread! Just saw on Medvedeva's Instagram that she was at the Tokyo airport, so I assume she's headed back to TCC, but when is Yuzuru going? Some thing right about now, since his ice shows/awards seem to be wrapping up or at least winding down. I'm still a bit in shock that Boyang may not go at all - but I guess there's nothing to do but wait and see. Jason Brown is there and he's so sweet and positive. I hope its a good season for all involved.

You're welcome [R3] I think we should be able to talk about any figure skater we want without being told to stop. I was the one that posted I like Hanyu after Johnny weir. He is just so interesting. Both are imo.

Hanyu should be heading back to tcc and I assume soon. I am also surprised Boyang might not be going. I love Jason Brown. I can't wait for the season to start!

Does anyone have a link to his Olympic program?

R5

R6 THANK YOU!

I'd been looking all over but never could find it,

I'd like to know more about what's happening with Kozuka. Can anyone enlighten us?

I have limited knowledge but from what I can piece together: Takahito Kozuka has become a tv announcer.

In a recent show (like in the last day or two), he said he never expected Yuzuru to win the Olympic gold in Sochi, and he also never expected him to win at Pyeongchang.

I think that's the gist but we'd need a Japanese speaker to give the exact words. I mean, if that's all there is, I'm not sure I see what the problem is? He was so young in 2014 and there was Patrick Chan - and I don't think at that time, Fernandez was as behind on base value as he was at Pyeongchang. Kurt Russell said he thought Hanyu's costume would make it unlikely that the judges would give him high enough marks to win! Then in Pyeongchang, he was a big question mark because of his ankle.

Anyway, that's all I can figure out about the mini-scandal.

From another message board: "Feels like this is what the TV producer wants [controversial remarks]. There's also the part that the female guest said Yuzu is acting cool/cute to attract fans (maybe not 100% accurate but something like that). They really tried to produce some controversy to grab more attention. - I think Kozuka is a smart (invented new blade!) and knowledgeable person, and I know he has been nice to Yuzuru so I don't judge his personality by only one mistake (if I call it "mistake"). But at the same time, having seeing him on TV for a while, I admit I feel like he has not been well spoken on TV. So, if he continues to work as a commentator or the likes, maybe he should be careful not to be misunderstood. (Daisuke doesn't work for Fuji TV anymore and I am wondering if Kozuka will take over his job since his wife is ex-announcer of Fuji, there is the connection. But I may be thinking too much)"

* Oops lol -- not Kurt Russell -- Kurt Browning!

No the reason Japanese fans are pissed off is because Kozuka compared Yuzuru's strategy at Pyeongchang to the one employed by the Japanese football team against Poland during the World cup recently. Except that's an awful comparison. The football team knowing they just needed to keep the score and not get any yellow cards and would pass the group stage over Senegal had a kind of tacit agreement also with the Polish players and basically spent the last 10/15min of the match barely moving so as to preserve the status quo. It was seen as shameless by most people in Japan and the coach even had to apologize so to compare Hanyu who despite an awful injury and nearly 3 months of the ice still put everything on the line and did 4 quads (albeit not the loop and Lutz) in the free is really unfair and dickish. Kozuka also commented that he thought someone with more accomplishments would win. For 2018 that would mean Nathan or Shoma but for 2014 it makes no sense because Yuzu came into Sochi number 1 in world standing and having beaten Chan at GPF. Anyway not the first time Kozuka has made a negative comment about Yuzu. The guy reeks jealousy from all his pores. A lot of Yuzu's seniors in team Japan do to be honest.

R11 Is Kozuka a dick or just not bright? I guess I never got the jerkish vibe from him. Has he said anything since, after all the uproar?

Hanyu won not one but TWO OGMs for Japan and Kozuka is critical of him? That just blows my mind. I can understand feeling envious of Hanyu but you would think he would be smart enough to conceal that envy when he's commentating.

This reminds me of something Tara Lipinski said at 2017 Worlds after Hanyu's FS. He was bowing to Brian & Tracy and Tara said that they should be bowing to Yuzu. And she was absolutely right. How many coaches get a chance to coach that level of talent?

If we all could poop as perfectly as Hanyu, the world would be filled with beautiful shit.

It reminds me of Yuzuru saying he just didn't want to be hated - that no matter what he said or did, people would hate him for it.

WTF? I agree with so many seniors being jerks - especially Takahashi who could have called off his attack-dog fans in the past but has never bothered to, or in fact, has stirred them up to attack more.

Didn't takahashi have photos on his instagram during the Olympics of the Japanese figure skaters but he had no photo with Hanyu? I wonder why sometimes.

And yes his fans still go after Hanyu like it will never stop. On Twitter if there is no new Hanyu news they bring up old photos and old tweets just to make fun of him. Imo takahashi should say something. I believe Hanyu tried to die many times not just because of the tabloid but from these antis going after him online. Things said online can really hurt some people very deeply.

I stopped posting on those skating threads awhile ago. The OP and her cult members of those threads are very controlling and territorial. If you say anything slightly off she and her minions will try and drive you out. I saw many newbies attacked on those threads. Thankful it never happened to me but I tired of the bullshit they produced.

[R14] you're welcome to join in anytime.

[R17] what skating threads? Sorry.

Apparently, the Baidu bars are going batshit crazy over Boyang right now. People are already jumping all over him even though it's unclear what's happening and whether or not he's had any say. Many are speculating that it's some internal tug of war between those who think Chinese athletes should train in China and those who think they should be allowed to go overseas. I know this is a Hanyu thread, but I'm tired of all the hissing on the other thread.

At least one, maybe more, of the attack dogs on the other skating threads posted videos of Takahashi saying something like, "Hanyu is boring - HERE's a fabulous skater..." blah blah blah - showing their hand.

The Daisuke extremists are here - and they'll be here on this thread too. Maybe by just blocking them, one by one, and ignoring them otherwise, we can keep this thread from being eliminated? R18 I think there have been a stream of "Figure Skating 2018 - Part XIV, Part XV, Part XVI".... etc., and they've been targeted by the same people who go after Hanyu everywhere else.

Maybe some are Chan fans - maybe some are just 4Chan type haters - it's probably why message boards like this one are going extinct. Alas.

Is it a Dai vs. Hanyu thing? I wonder if they're the same kind of people that hate on Johnny Weir for looking too gay. Maybe internalized homophobia?

R16 That was the second time. Takahashi also snubbed him during Sochi when they were teammates.

I guess I'll post my gossip here but it's mainly about Kozuka. To add onto r11, the pianist who accompanied Hanyu’s new exhibition at the Fantasy on Ice show was also on the program and later tweeted he disagreed with what was said and didn’t think it was right to compare Hanyu’s performance to the Japan vs. Poland game. The show was aired on Fuji TV, which is the station that loves to criticize and gossip about Hanyu, and Kozuka’s wife Yukari Oshima used to be a Fuji reporter. She officially left Fuji in December to take care of her child, but trying to return to television as a freelance announcer.

The show is partly scripted and edited, and some viewers think Kozuka was told to compare Hanyu to the Poland match to get views to boost his and his wife’s TV careers because the comparison was so bizarre. The next day, he and his wife appeared together on another TV show about their family life. By the way, Kozuka said he thought Hanyu wouldn’t win at Sochi or Pyeongyang, and he was publicly backing Shoma Uno before this Olympics. They attended the same university and from the same rink. (1/2)

The juicy stuff. Takahiko Kozuka is son of figure skating coach and international judge Tsuguhiko Kozuka. In 2014, one of his former students at Chukyo University accused him of molesting her at his home in 2012. Tsuguhiko already had a reputation according to insiders at his rink, but in 2012, he invited his former student out for a bite to catch up and talk about the old days but instead of taking her to a restaurant as promised, took her to his home where he refused to let her leave and molested her.

Since two years had passed, the police were unable to collect evidence but she also filed a lawsuit which could be ongoing since no one has reported the result. Oddly, while this type of story would immediately make the headlines, it was not reported in the news until late 2015. Takahiko retired in 2016 and it’s believed his father’s situation caused him to retire. Now, Takahiko and his wife started dating in 2010 and wanted to marry in 2013 but Tsuguhiko wouldn’t allow them. They finally became engaged in 2015 (months before the molestation case was revealed) after Tsuguhiko relented and married in 2016. (2/2)

Thanks, that is juicy. How are these kinds of stunts (Kozuka comparing Hanyu to Poland/Japan) received in Japan? In America, we're used to celebrities clambering for press, not caring whether it's good or bad. Is it the same in Japan? What was the reaction to Kozuka in Japan and do you think it was what he/wife expected (assuming it was orchestrated)?

Thanks so much for your scoops R23 R24 ! I'm sorry to hear that about Fuji TV. Sounds like this is really never going to end.

At least it's starting to make sense. Only reading English press, it's hard to understand what the big deal is, but it sounds a lot more sinister than a silly girl wearing bracelets - though I will never understand how Misha thinks this nonsense is going to make him look good. And from what I hear, his choreography for Kazuki Tomono is not well-suited to the kid. But I guess we'll see...

I guess Hanyu is back at TCC

R25 The reaction was mostly indifference to light confusion to anger, with some agreeing with what he was trying to say about Hanyu playing safe but disagreeing with the comparison. I think he shot himself in the foot because it was poor commentary even if you agree with him and people who didn't know him now think he's just not very smart and ill-suited to television. It was also bad because they were talking about Hanyu's award and he never congratulated Hanyu but made those comments instead. He's always been kind of arrogant but he also surprised me this time.

The only new Medvedeva news I have today is that she's still wearing Hanyu's gloves and has them in more than one color, ha ha ha.

R19 poor Boyang. Whether he had a say or not in not moving to Orser, he doesn't deserve the mobbing by angry fans.

R28 the people agreeing with the comparison are no doubt Takahashi/Shoma fans. Saying Hanyu played safe when he was literally jumping 6 quads (2 in sp, 4 in fs) on a useless leg using painkillers and sheer will to get through the pain. Excuse him for not going for loop and lutz which 6 months of rehab later he still has trouble doing even as triples.

r29. Boyang fans are angry at Boyang or Chinese skating fans in general are angry at Boyang?

What interests me is who really broke the deal, the Chnese side or the TCC side.

And since this is basically a Hanyu thread, Jin being out is probably good for him. He's going to remain TCC's top male. Though I do wonder whether having no skater truly at his level, like Javier used to be, will make him less motivated or whether he's past that sort of thing.

r17. Are you talking about Goldenskate or somewhere else?

R30, Yeah, it's so idiotic it's hard for me to believe it was planned, but seems like there is circumstantial evidence showing it might have been. Why are the Japanese skating senpai falling all over themselves to praise Shoma? Is it a regional thing? Is it because his seemingly non-confrontational personality is more palatable than Hanyu's? Is it because they hate Hanyu and want someone to overtake him? Given all the debate over whether Boyang should be training overseas, is this issue a big deal in Japan? Is this why Hanyu seems kind of isolated? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm truly intrigued.

r32. I think it might be the "success breeds contempt" scenario. The Takahashi vs Hanyu case is the most obvious, but Kozuka's attitude might be similar for exactly the same reason. Their attitude towards Hanyu might be negative because, well, Hanyu turned out to be better them, at basically everything. Better results, more professional recognition, more fan adoration, more fame. Therefore, they might feel more positively towards anyone who has a chance to knock Hanyu down a peg, in their stead.

it's kinda similar situation I saw on Goldenskate, there was this hardcore fan of Patrick Chan who hated Hanyu, and he switched to supporting Nathan Chen. Since Nathan Chen's skating is pretty much opposite of Chan's, the most logical explanation is that it was not Nathan's skating that made him into a supporter but because Nathan was was one of the few who could knock Hanyu down.

R32 Regional and they're from the same club (Toyota) or same agency (USM, which is also connected to Dentsu Inc). Hanyu refuses to sign with an agency and I think that's why he's targeted aside from being the top figure skater right now. But most skaters speak positively of him.

Yuzuru spotted at TCC finally. R32 I think the reason for the widespread animosity towards him among his seniors is because he rose too much too soon and started overshadowing and beating them when he was just a tiny thing of barely 17 years old. The humiliation Takahashi, his skating backers and fans felt when he beat him at Nationals was just too strong. They never got over it and he never stopped going further. Boy was breaking word records for his SP at 17. That's how incredible he was. Only his asthma was holding him back but when he managed to get it under control more or less he gave the incredible RJ performance at Worlds 2012 which made so many Japanese women fall for him. Add to that that he has a cute face, perfect skin, beautiful smile and manga body proportions, that he is charismatic, dramatic, strong willed and open with his emotions while also very clever and an amazing orator and you get the full star package. It drives people mad with jealousy and so they poke at the areas where he is vulnerable to try and get him back on their level. Too bad for them he thrives on adversity and as the insightful Machida so well said about him: "he is a mouse that would fight a lion and win." Now with the 2 OGMs and the people honor's award I can't imagine what is going on inside his seniors' heads but that must be a mix of awe, fear and jealousy. He is just too much.

Wow, you must be the uber that was quaking in the other thread because Takahashi dared to name Chen as a jump example. Manga body proportions? Lol. Could you be any more fanatical? If someone stanned me to this level I'd hide too.

R35 That's kind of extreme unless you are joking. Most of Hanyu's fans appeared after Sochi. Takahashi's fans have targeted every Japanese skater who's beaten him or become more popular, like Mao. They're the worst with Hanyu because of his success.

r35 Takahashi's fans targeted Mao? Even though she was not a competition for him? What did they do?

Not the one saying he has manga proportions Japan is. He was called Shinji Ikari (from Evangelion) when he was younger. Anyway you must be the pathetic Takahashi lover who keeps calling Hanyu ferret face. For someone who hates him you are truly quite a bit obsessed with him aren't you. Even coming here now that the thread was created. Also it may come at a surprise but some people may appreciate someone purely aesthetically or for how good/amazing a person they are and not be attracted to them physically/wanting to stalk them like a crazed fan. That's how I feel about Hanyu. I lust after Javier but am in admiration for Yuzuru.

I guess I think it's a good thing for Yuzuru if Boyang doesn't come to TCC (though I'm far from sure.) I think Brian might be very distracted and maybe Hanyu would feel discarded. I don't think that would be the case with Jason, who's not as threatening (he doesn't have 5 quads) and, well, everybody loves Jason. He just spreads hearts and air kisses wherever he goes.

Med? Uh... she wouldn't be Hanyu's training partner. Is she good enough to be Gabby's? (j/k)

R37 He indeed got the majority of his fans during Sochi but he already got a significant number of them after Nice. And yes I agree that Takahashi fans went after anyone who beat him/got more popular. They just were particularly vicious towards Hanyu because he started beating him while still so young.

r31 Thread starter should correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that this isn't meant to be a primarily Hanyu thread. It's meant to be a skating thread where you won't be harassed for talking about Hanyu or any other skater so all skating talk is welcome and encouraged : )

R39 For someone who claims not to be a crazed stalker fan, you sure oscillate a lot between waxing poetic about his attractive traits and getting crazy bitter about his competitors. Yes it's creepy and no I'm not a Hanyu hater or a Takahashi fan, I just feel sorry for Hanyu for having such crazy fans. You remind me of the "people who dislike USA are just jealous of our FREEDOMS!!!" Great deflection.

There's no "widespread animosity" toward him among his seniors. You don't know their dynamic any more than anyone else. He's human with human faults and relationships are complicated. People are allowed to not click with people, yes, even people you deem amazing. You can project your fantasies all you want, but using them to attack others of simply being jealous is pretty delusional. The world is not a black and white showdown between perfect Yuzu vs. the big bad meanies who just don't get it. Grow up.

r42. Well, with that title... Not that I mind, the sheer amount of interest would make it logical, with other skating talk mixed up.

[R42] yes. We can talk about other skaters. I just made it so we can talk about Hanyu as well without being screamed at.

[R42] any skating talk can be discussed here. : )

R40 does boyang have 5 quads? I only remember him doing Lutz, toe, and salchow.

I can see him being the biggest long term threat because he and Kolyada have the purest technique aside from Hanyu. I think there's too much wrong with Boyang's skating to be much of a threat for a couple more years though. Even his jumps need a lot of work. In spite of the crazy height he gets, the only jump he did last year that was greater than +3 quality was his quad Lutz,which didn't have enough other features to attain +5

[R22] what did Dai do to Hanyu in sochi? I became a fan after this past Olympics.

LOL with med and the gloves. I find it somewhat ridiculous.

Here's Boyang Jin's quad loop. I don't know which programs he's put it in, if any, but he has it (or did at the time of this video).

Oops - that's still just four R47 - I don't think he has the quad flip. Sorry. So it's only Nathan that has 5 different quads?

[quote]Didn't takahashi have photos on his instagram during the Olympics of the Japanese figure skaters but he had no photo with Hanyu? I wonder why sometimes.

Makes me wonder what the deal is there too. Once I saw a Tumblr which was by Takahashi fan and was basically devoted to Hanyu bashing: if Hanyu said or did something, it was with malicious intent, if he didn't say or do something, it was with malicious intent toi. Anyway, the fact that Hanyu doesn't mention Takahashi, isn't interviewed by Takahashi is the proof that Hanyu avoids, hates and snubs Takahashi. The Pyeongchang interviews with everybody but Hanyu were brought up. It was weird to read because a few days earlier I read on DL how Takahashi avoids, hates and snubs Hanyu and those very interviwes, or lack thereof, were brought up as proof.

So what's the real deal? Who avoids whom? Who makes the effort to stay away and why exactly? Is it just because of crazy fanbases and they don't want to add fuel to the fire or is there actual animosity on either side?

R33 I think I know who you're talking about. There also used to be one or two die-hard Takahashi fans on GS or FSU who appeared under multiple accounts after getting banned. You could tell who they were due to their broken English, wild conspiracy theories whenever Takahashi didn't place first, and peculiar comments in Hanyu threads about his mom or Orser. I wonder if they'll be returning now that their guy is back.

R50 Orser says Stephen Gogolev has all the basic quads but he's a junior until 2021.

R39 aren't the psycho Takahashi fans in Japan? 99% sure ferret boy is North American. My guess is that R2 is correct about him being a bitter Chan Stan. Best just to point and laugh at people like him.

Where do you think Dai will place at Nationals? Based on his average scores he could conceivably get 3rd but can't imagine he's anywhere close to even injured Dai of 2014. Seems like a lot of people are getting their hopes up for nothing. We're depending on Japanese uploaders to get to see him.

Saw a recent translation of an interview with Dai, some stuff we've heard before but some new things for me: -confirmed that Benoit Richaud will choreograph his free, David Wilson his short. -coach is Utako Nagamitsu. -he has all of his triples back, including the axel. -says he doesn't have a nutritionist or trainer and is trying to do these things on his own. unemployed now and not getting show or competition money anytime soon, so he has to spend wisely. -doesn't think the new rules will help him because he sucks at spins, doesn't have much flow in his jumps, and the shortened time of the free doesn't give him a lot of time to recover in between elements.

r55 When was the last time Dai was in a show? Maybe this is a stunt to get him back in the spotlight to try to reboot his show career.

R56 He did that Hyoen (Kabuki on ice) show back in 2017. Don't know what he's done since. Getting back into competition form just to drum up his show career seems extreme to me, I guess. Surely, he's still famous enough to gain publicity some easier way.

R56 He recently said he doesn't like show skating. He performed at Price Ice World in May and has some shows in August.

R58 Interesting you say that because in the recent interview, when asked what his goal is, he says: "I wish to live my life as a performer on skates, so my goal is to perform to the greatest extent until I reach my limits. I believe the start to that will be this comeback. I don’t have a goal for my competitive career yet. But as a goal for the future, I know my time is up soon, nobody knows what will happen to figure skating in the future, and we don’t know if there will be skating rinks in the future, but until then, I would like to show my greatest performances at ice shows as well." I didn't even think to include it in my earlier summary, but it's interesting if he's said in the past he doesn't like show skating.

R59 Actually, I think I read it in a very recent interview about his un-retirement. He tends to bounce around. He quit grad school right before he was about to graduate to go to the US to study dance. Then he returned to Japan after three or four months to appear on television and do some shows, then went back to the US for another few months. Then he returned to become a navigator (reporter) but I think his TV work was sporadic. He occasionally wrote sports columns. He was also trying to become an interior decorator or something similar not that long ago. Competitive skating is the only thing he's stuck to and I think he feels lost without it.

Now I'm curious as to where Mao and Oda stand in all this backstage drama. Mao seems very close to Dai, but it's been mentioned a few times that his fans attacked her? Why? Of the older skaters, Oda seems most close to Hanyu, but it's unclear to what extent frankly. Oda also seems friendly with Dai despite all the past drama with Morozov and Dai's fans attacking him too.

Someone (on a message board somewhere I didn't make a note of) said that during his ice show this past May (Prince Ice World, I think), he didn't even get to do Tokyo. I took it from that comment that the organizers weren't interested in hiring him for Tokyo but that really surprised me. I figured he was still one of the top draws in Japan. So maybe I misread the comment or the person was just wrong.

He also had a tv show where he did special interviews or on the road adventures - something like that - and he abruptly announced he was quitting, and that he wasn't cut out for tv - that it was a tough business, and he wasn't suited to it.

I'm beginning to worry about his mental health - but better not go down the psychoanalyzing rabbit hole.... He seems so weird to me though. That said, I think it happens to a lot of athletes. They dedicate so many years - and then, abruptly, at quite a young age, it just stops. And they're sometimes lost as to what to do next. Which makes sense and it's sad.

But I find it hard to care about the ones who are less than gracious towards other skaters, like Patrick Chan or Daisuke. I can't remember the details but it sounds like Dai wasn't all that nice to Nobunari Oda or Hanyu during his career. I don't believe in the superstitious aspects of karma - but in some ways, maybe I do believe in it - screw over people or just be un-generous - and it often comes back to haunt you.

Oh now I remember another anecdote -- when he was in Pyeongchang working for one of the Japanese networks, he refused to interview Hanyu, so they had to get somebody else to do it. And the person who said that happened said it was why he wasn't asked to continue working as a sports reporter. Though I guess that's a good thing for him since Dai says he doesn't like doing tv.

R22 He just snubbed him. He took photos with everyone except Hanyu. His group photos of the Japanese skating team were also only missing Hanyu. This was before they stopped appearing on television together.

Takahashi has said he hates it when anyone else gets the spotlight in his autobiographies. He’s said he can accept an older and more established skater beating him in competition, but is bitter when a younger skater does. He’s talked about being infuriated that the media loves female skaters more than the men. He’s written about how he can’t stand the idea of Hanyu surpassing him since 2011. The crazy Takahashi fans treat every word he’s written as some kind of biblical message that they need to attack these other skaters and their supporters to protect him.

R61 R38 But just because Takahashi’s fans attack other skaters doesn’t necessarily mean Takahashi himself hates them. Mao and Takahashi were good friends, but she was competition to him in terms of popularity. The fans haven't been as extreme with her, but they’ve created hate boards and also pose as Mao fans hating on Hanyu (and vice versa). It would be clever if they didn’t forget their twitter and forum histories can be traced. Hilariously, they also used to ship Mao and Takahashi, maybe to suppress the gay rumors. Oda felt very guilty about the coaching situation and I think he blames himself for the hate he received. They’ve known each other since they were little and still do shows together. Mao and Oda are also very sweet and kind to everyone.

R51 Now Tumblr? His Japanese fans mainly stick to twitter, blogs and 5chan. I think Takahashi originally avoided Hanyu, and then Hanyu began to avoid him after the crazy fans escalated. He almost quit because of their harassment in 2013, and talked about getting advice from Weir about anti-fans during his suicidal talk at his show in April. What they've done sounds unbelievable, but people have been literally recording the craziness for years and the crazy fans like to flaunt their hate in public to encourage others to harass him.

Now anyone who praises Hanyu is a traitor and if Takahashi himself brings up Hanyu, it’s because he must have been forced by someone else. So when Takahashi complimented Hanyu in a TV interview with Arakawa, his fans accused the show of making him name Hanyu and stormed Arakawa's twitter. Takahashi deleted his own twitter account hours later and Arakawa issued an apology the next day. That’s just one example but Takahashi and Hanyu on TV together risks provoking Takahashi’s fans. Orser also seems aware and maybe wouldn't allow it.

r65. The Tumblr was in English, albeit a bit broken English so I think the person was Japanese.

Holy shit, Takahashi had to delete his Twitter just because he mentioned Hanyu positively? And they dragged the TV station in it? That's a whole different level of crazy. Maybe there really isn't that much personal animosity between them but the avoidance tactics is because of the fanbases. If really no matter what they do and say will rile the crazies up, it's better to stay away. Maybe Takahashi, or Hanyu, feel what kind of shitstorm would break out if they actually did an interview together.

It looks like Boyang Jin will not be going to tcc.

I feel Takahashi has fueled the Hanyu hate with what he has written and/or said. I thought the hate Johnny Weir got was bad. The Hanyu hate is worst than that.

R67 The Japanese tweet is by a fan of Chinese skaters and only says that she's disappointed he's no longer going to Orser but will support him no matter the reason. It doesn't say how or if she knows it's not happening.

This came from Johnny's instagram. Who do you think would make a good couple. Lambiel and Weir? Lambiel and Yuzuru?

Here's my choice

Or better still - yeah, I know he's married - so what...

I've never seen there photos before. [ R71] is Yuzuru grabbing Lambiels ass? I have never seen him do anything like that.

He definitely is - and that look he's giving the came - oo la la! There's another one where he grabs Stephane by both wrists and Lambiel has such a sexy look in response - I don't know how to describe it - submissive? excited? It's hot!!

And I didn't mean to say Nobu's marriage didn't matter but they could share custody. Nobu and Yuzu would make such good parents, getting the kids every other weekend or something. Gotta stop this silly shipping but the pictures are so damned hot!

Oda is really ugly though, no offence. And it's obvious Hanyu prefers his men on the handsome side. R71 It's such a smug cheeky look. What a little minx. I love his relationship with Lambiel. Yuzuru trusts and relies on him a lot and Lambiel is always really supportive and affectionate with him. I would love to see them skate as a duet on the ice.

r75 awww. it's not like he's Kevin Reynolds ugly. Oda's more ugly-cute, like a chimp.

Speaking of simian looking Asians, I can't decide if I think Nathan is hot or not. Sometimes I think he looks sexy, but I also think he has the face of a monkey. What do you guys think?

r70 I second that choice. I don't think Weir and Hanyu could work as a couple - they'd both want to be the one who gets all the attention. Plus, Weir hasn't aged as well. Stephane is as hot as ever while Weir gained weight weirdly over the years.

r71 Actually, there's a few incidents of Hanyu's interesting hand placements. When Hanyu hugged Boyang at the Olympics he had his hand on Boyang's upper thigh/butt. And in the cast photo of Heroes and Future, he has his hand below Candeloro's belt.

r64 I cant believe Dai was the that frank about his feelings in his autobiographies. He really sounds petty. Are the psycho fans mostly on Dai's side or do the Hanyu/Asada/Oda fans pull the same crap with Dai?

[R76] I sometimes feel the same about Nathan looking sexy. Not the face of a monkey. Most of the time I just find him cute.

Maybe Hanyu is finally coming out of his shell so to speak and showing us what he likes. lol

Stephane and Johnny probably find it hot that Hanyu gets so aggressive sometimes. Didn't they say that they considered dating at one point but it didn't work out because they "both wanted to be girls"? Backstage cams still show the two of them ice dancing together every chance they get though.

Interesting how Hanyu takes turns grabbing at his older skaters and then gets all submissive looking in front of some others. The infamous grope from Zach aside, I've seen Uno spank him in the butt while Hanyu giggled.

I find Nathan to be just an average Asian looking face, but then again, that's how I feel about Hanyu and people go crazy for his looks.

Maybe we're reading too much into the whole Hanyu / Dai hate drama? Maybe they're pretty neutral about each other, but it's the crazy fans that are forcing them to keep their distance. Sure, there are Dai fans who read too much into anything Hanyu does as Dai hate, but then we've seen a mirror image of that from a Hanyu uber right here.

R79 I agree re the relationship between Hanyu/Dai. Doubt they're best pals b/c they are so different, but I don't think it's all that clear how they feel about each other. It's the dumb fans that force them to keep their distance. Kind of like the dumb fans that go to Javi's SNS asking about yuzuvier. Dai seems insecure and possibly petty, but not vicious.

Where can I find the photo of Yuzuru holding Lambiels wrists? Instagram?

I agree with R77. I don't think Johnny has aged well either.

Oh I'll keep looking for that wrist grap picture but no luck so far. I did run into a photo of Yuzuru's quad-jumping leg muscles

Here's the wrist grab. There's a video somewhere out there too.

r79 Hanyu isn't classically handsome but his look fills a niche type that people tend to either be crazy about or don't like at all. Very few male athletes have this look so it makes sense that he gets the vast majority of fans who are into this type while everyone else is splitting up the same half of the pie. With a standard guy's haircut and no make-up, he still gets mistaken for a girl. Even Hanyu's figure has a very feminine shape, especially when he stands the way he does in that Heroes and Future picture.

You think the Shibs are skipping next season because the idea of them skating the tango romantica creeps even them out?

Fuller picture of the butt grab.

In what world does Hanyu get mistaken for a girl? ???? Is this a white people thing?

I can see the "feminine" shape thing just because he's got the thighs of a figure skater and happens to be very skinny, which creates the illusion of a womanly body. But his face? Nah dude, he's a very average Japanese face. No one in Asia would mistake him for a girl.

Stephane and Hanyu in 2016

R84 Didn't the Shibs sign with UTA shortly after the Olympics? What have they been doing lately to promote themselves?

He's got wide hips relative to his small waist, too, R86. Most guys don't curve like that but just sort of go straight down. Maybe it's just the tiny waist. His body reminds me of a tall skinny supermodel's. He looks so much like some characters in anime I can't get over it - so it must be a pretty common look in Japan.

Anyway, to the Shibs! What will they do? If you don't coach, choreograph or commentate, what DO you do as an ex-skater? I guess what any of the rest of us do... I wish they'd do more with the professional competition thing like Midori Ito was recently in. But if the audience for the regular competitions is declining, I guess there's not much hope for the older ones. Even though the ice shows are big, especially in Japan, seems like a pretty small percentage of ex-skaters get invites.

r84 when did they announce the break? Before or after the short dance announcement? r89 I think they're quite popular in Japan? Japanese shows don't invite many pairs and dancers, but there's usually room for at least one or two teams, so Shibs would have a good chance of filling that slot.

I don’t like Hanzu or his skating...

Hanyu, sorry.

Tell us more about it, r91.

R90 They announced the break in April and signed with the talent agency around the same time

Yes, Dai R91, we've just been talking about you, come sit down, tell us what happened.

Our little German redhead at Orser's rink has struck again - Evgenia is there!! With Yuzuru in the distant background. I think that first guy on the bench with the white stripe down his pants is the gorgeous Conrad Orzel - god I hope they get his skating smoothed out because he's the handsomest thing to come along in skating since... shit, ever?

No Boyang sighting though. WTF happened? Brian must be bereft. Who could take his place? Isn't Toronto closer to Yale than Los Angeles? Oh yeah, there's Jason. He'll keep everybody loved up instead of squabbling...

I heard Javi was coming back but I don't know if it's true. He's not doing GPs but is doing Europeans, so you'd think he'd do some Senior B's or whatever they call them.

Can anybody recognize anybody else in the background - seems they're pixillated or something. Junghwan Cha? Another pretty pretty boy.

Dammit I'm always forgetting the link....

R97 That's the only photo with a pixelated background. Interesting. If Boyang doesn't show up, I wonder if that means Orser will take a more active role in Jason's skating. He didn't seem too interested.

More on Conrad - first from a message board this info (and then the link): Conrad Orzel, who is 183cm (6 feet!), joined TCC in April, so Junhwan (5’10”) isn't the only tall skater now. Conrad recently shared his 4F on instagram, which he learned at TCC, what may be a proof that quads are possible also for tall skaters

A quad flip !! Come on, senior season!! (although last year, his skating was mighty shaky)

The pixelation makes me think someone has had a word with Evgenia and Jason - because they were posting TCC pictures like crazy for a while, but now we know they're both there, and no pix? (except from little kiddies, and even they have to pixelate, hmmm)

R83 thanks. I wish there was another angle. Lambiels face looks like he likes it. Yuzu might be kinky in the bedroom.

I still can't believe Hanyu is now butt grabbing. lol

Since Junhwan was brought up. I think he will get better and better. I thought he was pretty good at the Olympics.

OK, R101 These pics give you almost every possible angle on that exchange. Hope it was everything you dreamed it would be!

R66 That was one of their lesser incidents. One paper reported the skating federation banned the press from asking Hanyu about Takahashi’s return during his award ceremony, but Seiko Hashimoto was also standing next to him there so I think that was more to protect her. But Takahashi also wasn’t asked about Hanyu’s award during his press conference the night before, so the federation must be in control.

R77 They hate on Takahashi or more accurately his fans on blogs and forums, but do not harass him directly online or otherwise. Asada’s fans have the second worst reputation in terms of behavior, but Hanyu has a lot of international fans and the most fans, so his fans are the most annoying right now by virtue of size.

R68 I don’t think Takahashi ignited the hate for other skaters in his fans before Hanyu appeared. But after he knew how they were interpreting his words, he shouldn’t have kept writing about Hanyu in his later books and talk about how resentful he gets when someone else is praised for anything. It’s also bad for his mental health to dwell on it so much. His fans had already been attacking the other Japanese men for years by the time they got to Hanyu, so he had some idea of what would happen, just not how far they’d take it.

Takahiko Kozuka’s dad, the one being sued for sexual assault by one of his former skaters, appeared on TV with Takahiko and his wife on Monday (at 29:00). Why Takahiko and his wife let him appear on television is a mystery. The dad coached Miki Ando while she was a junior, so that makes two handsy coaches.

There was another Japanese skating dad in trouble with the law just months before the pubic found out about Tsuguhiko’s case in 2015. Mao’s dad was arrested for beating his girlfriend less than a week after Mao announced her comeback. It was his third offence but his first two had curiously gone unreported by the media. Mao’s dad was a very successful host in Nagoya who owned a host club and some more risqué establishments. Her mother was a customer he married after he knocked her up. He was first arrested for public indecency at a lingerie club (a hostess bar where the women only wear lingerie and usually a front for a brothel) he owned. He was later arrested for assault although the circumstances are unknown. Hard to believe he fathered Mao.

R102. Thanks! They both should seriously think about getting together. They would be so cute! They looked like they were enjoying that moment.

What if Takahashi came out one day and said guess what bitches? Yuzuru and I have always been friends. His fans would probably have a stroke.

What a mess. I'd feel sorry for Takahashi but... well, it's hard. It's kind of pitiful for a guy who had a reasonable amount of accomplishments and certainly accolades and fame to be so blunt about being jealous of a rival. It makes him look so petty. I just can't imagine wanting that to be your legacy and writing about it in your autobiography but I guess he wanted to get it off his chest.

But at least for me, every time I look at him, it's what I'll think about - here's the guy who was eaten up with envy of a fast skinny kid who could do more quads (I mean Hanyu is more than that, but Takahashi had Chan-like skating skills and a lot to be proud of himself - I'm guessing he didn't have the consistent jumps and his injury scuppered his chances - nothing to be ashamed of - it happens to most of them - came close to happening to Yuzuru, at least his ultimate goal at Pyeongchang,)

So Takahashi could have a completely positive life - or he could be drifting from goal to goal and nothing is ever enough... We'll see if this comeback does the trick, but that's not his track record. To some extent, you decide if you're going to be happy or not, and his life has had plenty of good fortune but he wants to focus on the bad too much (imo). He should be like Patrick who said he was so very proud of HIMSELF that he could finally watch Hanyu and be impressed by his skating because HE had made such huge strides in becoming a wonderful person and didn't have to hate Hanyu anymore (gotta love Pchiddy)

R23, this guy who compared Hanyu to Japan v Poland JUST because he changed his jump layout due to injury - fricking Nathan Chen changes his every competition because THE RULES LET YOU DO THAT. It's the way to compete - maybe that's why Kozuka totally crashed and burned - he didn't understand the sport?

What IS Kozuka's excuse for petering out after being an up and comer in 2010, who many would predict would be a factor at Sochi. He didn't even make it to Sochi. What a complete loser. And injury doesn't count because he didn't let it count for Hanyu. He should have pulled out six quads even if his legs were broken - or else he's a bigger example of Japan v Poland.

I'm not looking forward to seeing Nathan Chen this season. His skating doesn't do a thing for me. If he had some artistry maybe I could enjoy him more. I wonder of he will have to eventually postpone school or his skating.

*for his skating.

R103 How does Seiko Hashimoto figure into all of this? On one hand, she loves Dai; on the other his presence dredges up embarrassing questions. What happened to her after the Dai incident in 2014? Seemed like she was still able to hang onto her position of power.

R104 If Kozuka and his wife are trying to (re)launch their broadcasting careers, isn't everything he's doing seriously dumb? He insults Hanyu in a totally ineffective and nonsensical way and then puts his own sordid family history on display. In the US, we're used to celebrities famewhoring their way to wealth and notoriety. How does it work in Japan?

I like Nathan's personality a lot - he seems like a sweet, humble guy. But I'm not sure his shyness will ever translate into being an expressive, engaging skater. Maybe - he's only 19 but he just doesn't seem to be much of a showman. And some of his landings are crap but I suppose he could fix that. I love those love, flowing Japanese landings, and I think I've seen some good ones from him but he's hit and miss. Well, who wouldn't be when you do a quad every 20 seconds or whatever sheesh. And with half a minute cut off the program, if he continues with 6 quads per free skate, his programs will be even more jump-centered and dull.

Anyhow, I wish him well. And someone upthread was asking if we thought he was cute/sexy. I kinda do. He's so soft-spoken and seems really generous towards his competitiors - a breath of fresh air. And not a headcase like Vincent. We'll see if the Yale + skating works out - he may have too much on his plate, and frankly, it seems kinda dumb to jeopardize his academics and future career to be a figure skating star, especially when he doesn't seem to have much of a drive to be a show-offy worshipped celebrity.

* I love those LOW, flowing Japanese landings....

Im looking Torwar to seeing Nathan mosty to see whether the Yale+EliteSkating combo is at all possible. I don't believe he'll improve in terms of transition or expression because he simply won't have time for it, so what I fear is that he'll focus on quads, be fairly-consistent but have empty programs but because of the consistency his PCS will keep rising despite empty programs. To sum up, I guess I'm looking forward to frustration and anger.

I like Nathan as well. He seems nice though he had his dumb remark about how if you want artistry you should watch ice dance but I can put it on him being young. Otherwise he seems like a good kid and Rippon seems to have been a good influence on him. His landings however are atrocious. He cannot bend his knees to save his life.

R106 Patrick will always be Patrick meaning a bit (a lot) full of himself but I appreciate how he is now able to distance himself from things and look at them with a calmer mind and actually give credit where credit is due. You could see the beginning of that in his interactions with Yuzuru during 4CC last year. So yeah props to him because changing is not easy and coming to acknowledge your rivals after some truly bitter losses even less. Takahashi has not reached that stage yet and probably never will. Pity.

I saw Nemesis as an EX and it was...better. Much better, actually, so I can see the potential in Nathan's skating without all the quads. He was also more comfortable so he sold it better. I mean, quads are his bag, but I feel like if he didn't rely on them so much, he would have incentive to develop other aspects of his skating and make his programs more interesting. It's a shame, actually.

R106 He describes himself as jealous of everything, so it's not about skating or Hanyu. I think he needs someone to listen to him talk about his problems.

R110 Nothing happened to her. A scandal like that would usually lead to immediate resignation or termination and would have if the sexes were reversed. She's also a politician for the ruling party. I'd like to know who leaked the photos. There's a rumor that Arakawa did.

R111 He has a nice job at Toyota. I don't know why he can't leave the TV work to his wife. The talent agencies and sponsors have total control in Japan. It's much harder to act on your own and famewhore to money and success. Whoever is helping Kozuka is making terrible decisions.

So because of a little girl who can't stop taking pics with elite skaters at TCC we know that Hanyu and Medvedeva are at least sharing some group practices together with seemingly no issue. Now it makes me wonder about his strong reaction and denial of the dating rumors and the even stronger one from his physiotherapist. I legit thought he was beyond upset and uncomfortable with the situation but clearly that's not the case and it was probably just a strategy to get media/fans to back off. But he should know that with the number of people sharing pictures from inside the Cricket it's basically impossible as fans and media alike will jump on any piece of news they get.

R117 LOL at the thought of Arakawa leaking those pictures, especially b/c she was elected VP of JSF shortly after the leak. Wonder how things are working out with Hashimoto then. If talent agencies have total control in Japan, why don't you think Hanyu has signed up with one yet?

R119 Maybe that's the reason he hasn't signed up? He didn't want to be under so much control. Or perhaps his family or someone else advised against it, because I believe he was still very young when he got his first big sponsorship. I imagine the control of a talent agency might interfere with training. I think he'd be doing a lot more commercials if he were with an agency, and more high-profile ones.

Now this is a mystery. How come some skaters are so shy and it shows in their showmanship, while other shy skaters perform so well? Chen and Tanaka are some examples I can think of that are super shy and it shows in their skating. Takahashi and Uno are naturally shy too - I know the focus on Dai's personality is mostly on how petty or jealous he is, but he's a really shy person. So I wonder what it is that makes the latter two so much better at artistic immersion than the former two?

Then of course you have the likes of Zhou, who's just a bad showman regardless of shyness.

Zhou is God awful. Sorry to any Zhou fans here. I prefer Nathan over him. His skating is horrendous. His face has no expression .whatsoever.

Has Misha Ge always been a Dai Takahashi fan? Or is this love recent after Hanyu kicked him to the curb.

R121 It's their inner gay that gives them the edge. I may have to disagree about Uno. I associate only one kind of expression with him, no matter what he's skating to - a look of yearning with outstretched arms.

R123 Misha has a talent for latching on to other people's fandoms, I'll give him that.

Lol "inner gay". Nice.

But I have to disagree about Uno having only one expression - the Loco program and the Sacred Spirits? Some kind of spirits... the short program on his senior debut year. Definitely not yearning type expressions. But yeah I think his coaching team makes him do a lot of dramatic operatic stuff because they see that as his strength.

Bless Misha for entertaining us with more petty drama every day.

I wonder how corrupt JSF is? With a chairwoman getting away with nary a slap in the wrist for sexual harassment, makes me wonder if there are other dirty secrets like bribery that go on. I remember JSF was accused of forcing Hanyu to compete and perform in ice shows in spite of serious injury some years ago. How much pressure is a federation capable of exerting on a skater anyway? And if any, how does it even happen? During drunk dancing hours in banquets? Do judges that meet skaters there decide their favorite skaters based on how well behaved the skaters are?

I know how demanding talent agencies can get, but I thought athletes have a different sort of agencies... like sports management agencies? I didn't expect sports agencies to be as crazy as talent agencies, but if they're anything like how talent agencies are, yeah things are gonna be super demanding and political up there. Also makes one wonder about the kind of reach an agency has -- can they force an athlete to stay in the closet (apparently what Misha's agency or federation did? or told him to butch it up?) or do commercials, or do ice shows, etc.?

[quote] I wonder how corrupt JSF is? With a chairwoman getting away with nary a slap in the wrist for sexual harassment, makes me wonder if there are other dirty secrets like bribery that go on.

It depends what we can use as benchmark. If the benchmark is French Fed, JSF would be an example of integrity! Oh and we have the German/Czech Fed still employing the coach who was suspended and convicted for sexual abuse and physical harms on girls at the rink. And the German Fed official who didn't act in that case (and was fined by the tribunal) is still an ISU judge.

R125 I was just kidding. I think Uno is quite expressive. It's his jumping technique I have issues with. The Sacred Spirits program is actually good, too bad about the stupid face paint and shirt.

I think Hashimoto rose to power after a huge embezzlement scandal, so maybe like R126 said, sexual harassment is small potatoes compared to the other shit they're trying to cover up.

R118 - I think Misha was much more the problem than Evgenia - he's the one who bought the bracelets, he posted the Weibo post showing Yuzuru upset at him grabbing her arm. I noticed at Nagano, where Evgenia was there but no Misha, that there were no problems. I really don't think Evgenia is going to push herself on Yuzuru - I never did. She might act silly on her own, liking posts that ship her and Yuzuru or going along with some silly hijinks that Misha arranges, but I think she's aware that she can't throw herself at Yuzuru at TCC. I mean, I don't agree with a lot of the stuff she's done, but she doesn't strike me as a total idiot.

And she's gotten close with Jason Brown which is nice and probably is enough for her - she was also posting some very playful pictures of her and Gabby Daleman a few months ago. I even think Yuzuru is aware that the problem isn't really the girl - it's two-faced Misha, going on and on about what a wonderful friend he's been to Yuzuru and that they "grew up together." Evgenia hasn't said anything so provocative, that I'm aware of - just teenage behavior, probably just newly-free joie de vivre. Misha is more complicated - what is he? 30 years old? He's the problem. If Yuzuru has any pull with Orser, and he should, it's Misha who should be banned from the place.

Well, just my opinion, but I watched her at Nagano, and she kept her distance from Hanyu, at least from what I could see from the clips, the finale, etc.

Maybe Misha is acting up so much with Yuzuru through other female skaters because he secretly wants to have Yuzuru instead. Living vicariously? Who knows. He sure seems happy to be skating in pair holds with Yuzuru with himself being the girl.

I think Misha wants to use Yuzuru's success and fame to help himself - I don't think he has any interest in him beyond that. Otherwise, he wouldn't have done all these things to hurt Yuzu, even after the revealing speech at his own ice show, and his interviews with Johnny and Plushenko, where he said people spreading rumors and hate about him had hurt him so much. Misha's reaction? Buy the bracelets and pour salt on his wounds.

R104 Between Morozov and Kozuka's dad, Miki Ando sure has some stories to tell. A poster here mentioned that she perpetually has her foot in her mouth, so it's funny that she's not the one who spilled the beans on the mess with Morozov and Javi. Javi is usually pretty discrete, so I was surprised he talked about it.

Man, pouring salt on the wounds. Almost sounds like a bitter spurned lover. Sorry for the dramatic imagination lol.

r115 I don't know how much Patrick has changed. He's always been good at self preservation. He spent years propping himself up with rationalization and throwing shade about Hanyu when he thought they were rivals. By the time he got around to not hating Hanyu, he was a non-factor in the sport. Holding on to resentment at that point would have just been damaging himself. When he accepted that he wasn't competitive, he changed his priorities to that team gold. He might be a douche, but in a way, he probably has the healthiest attitude - he seems to just enjoy the good that comes his way without overthinking it, changes his goals to something attainable when he can't get what he really wanted, finds ways to always prop up his ego when others would let their confidence lapse, and he doesn't seem to let his skating results drag him down. His hyper focus on himself was probably his career downfall, but I think he was overall happier than Hanyu and Takahashi, who seemed to let several things affect their mental state, in the 4 years leading to the Olympics.

While I enjoy the camaraderie amongst the current generation of skaters, I hope we get a couple Chan type personalities for flavor. I miss Yagudin/Plushenko - bitter rivalries are so much more fun when both sides are slinging mud. The whole Dai/Hanyu thing just seems sad.

r112 Next year will be the real test in Nathan figuring out where his priorities really lay. Skating doesn't seem to be the passion for him that it is for others. I've seen on these forums a few times that he was going for broke for 2018 so he could move on. If his results suffer between the new judging system and school, will the prospect of a dwindling career light a fire under him or make him focus more on other things?

r121 r116 Did Nathan say he was shy? I never got that impression from articles I read about him or his interviews. I just thought he had sort of a white bread personality. Nemesis was great at Rostelecom and Mao's Last Dancer was decent back then. I think it was Olympic strategy on their part to drop the choreography in favor of hoping for more success on the jumps. I think they knew he would get the PCS scores either way if he landed the jumps so why take the risk?

I like Patrick. It's rare to see a guy so honestly himself and not self-policing to try to be perfect. People hate on him for being arrogant, but so what. Arrogance is a very minor and natural human flaw compared to other flaws a person could have. It's hilarious how many zealous Hanyu fangirls love to drag Patrick when they wanna sing praises about Hanyu. It's so petty. I was pretty impressed with how Patrick came out and said he used to hate Hanyu - that isn't something you easily admit as a famous person. Give me an evolving character like Patrick with human flaws any day over, well, whatever. He seems like a nice guy who matured and learned how to deal with failure. Hope Hanyu learns that skill sometime.

R134 I don't recall Nathan announcing his shyness to the world, but it's pretty obvious that he's an awkward teenage kid who gets self-conscious. The self-consciousness is probably what ate into his nerves at the Olympics. It's not easy to turn it off and zone out like some skaters can.

r135 It's not a Hanyu fan thing it's a big personality=polarizing opinions thing. Same reason Hanyu, Plushenko, and Weir get so much hate. I remember leading up to Sochi, I heard a lot of ABC - Anyone But Chan - for the Olympics by people who didn't give a shit about Hanyu. I say "douche" with the greatest of affection. Chan is douchey. Weir is flaming. Plushenko is arrogant. Hanyu is odd. But I like that about them. Skating is so much more interesting with them in it.

No one in the world could help but drag Patrick because he's hilarious !! Who says shit like that - well, other than Trump.

Really, he is no threat to Hanyu whatsoever, but the guy says the stupidest things when he's bragging on himself, when otherwise he seems quite intelligent. My biggest problem with him is I think he's ugly, so I can't appreciate his skating, which I realize is very smooth and skilled blah blah blah... Vincent is another one who's just a big zero.

Someone asked Dai once what the secret was to being a great skater and he said, "You need to look fabulous!" He was probably joking but I agree with him - and he does look fabulous, I'll give him that. Maybe I'll check him out and try to overlook his vicious fanbase, but talk about somebody who needs to learn how to cope with failure, I'd have him top of the list. Grow up, cutie, and get yourself a good man! (not that I don't think Hanyu has problems but like R136 said, he's so odd, I have no clue what he needs to do - quit being so sensitive I guess, and tell people to fuck off instead of getting so depressed)

Patrick Chan is a great example of why overpraising a child can backfire big time. Instead of creating a self-confidant adult you end up with a narcissistic asshole with deep insecurities. And in his case, a not particularly bright one as evidenced by the countless stupid things he's said in numerous interviews over the years.

Yeah, I don't see the Patrick Chan hate as a Hanyu fan thing. Hanyu was young and the underdog in Sochi and by the time Chan came back, he wasn't really a factor. It's likely more a reaction to Chanflation, and Patrick's seeming obliviousness to the PCS candies he was given. I don't understand why the Dai fans don't seem to hate Patrick, especially after he walked away with Dai's gold at Worlds 2012. I actually don't think Patrick is an asshole even though he says asshole things - like R133 said, his self-justification, lack of awareness and narcissism seem like survival mechanisms, so I never held it against him. We all have to do what we have to do to get on with life, I guess.

I don't get these "Hanyu is odd" comments. How is he odd? His charisma is through the roof--not only is he book smart but he consistently displays extraordinary emotional intelligence. That's why he's so popular--he understands what fans want and he gives it to them, even teases them about it. And the camera loves him--he has this uncanny ability to look his age one minute and several years younger the next--strong one minute, vulnerable the next.

And yes, I think Chan is an asshole. He treated several of his coaches so badly that they ended up firing him. You gotta be pretty bad for that to happen multiple times in figure skating.

R128 She took the initiative with some of it but I can imagine Ge egging her on by promising to help because he's "best friends" with Hanyu and knows she has a chance. It makes him feel important and they get to live out the high school fun they had to miss. With the GP assignments out and Ge gone, I think Medvedeva will move on.

R135 Nathan seems like a regular teenager to me and less awkward than his other team members. He's just low-key compared to the big personalities and their constant tweeting. The bigger question is, what will he do with his newfound freedom?

Patrick Chan got a lot of Canadian hate after that article where he suggested skating for China would be better than his home country.

R140 I think some people say this because he's a little hard to figure out and a bit of a mystery, even to people who like him. It's easier to relate to someone who says stupid things or acts out, especially if they are apologetic and seem to change afterwards. Who can relate to someone who seems to be singlemindedly focused on his goals since he was like 12 or whatever like Hanyu has been with very few missteps. More power to him and he has my admiration, but it does make him something of an oddity.

r137 Exactly. I actually like several of Chan's programs but it's his personality that entertains me to no end. There are so many Chan gems that I can't find the links to but here's a few.

"anyone can do the quad," /canadas-patrick-chan-on-skating-gold-controversy/

“I have a life outside of skating. I want to extend my career other than what I do in competition.“I’m going to stick to what I can do... because if I try and ... do the impossible, I will either get too frustrated to the point where I won’t enjoy the sport anymore or I will get hurt and maybe have to get hip replace“However, we are treading into the unknown when it comes to men’s skating. Maybe they (the ISU) need to limit the amount of quads you can do in the long program. “But I don’t think that will happen until somebody actually does get hurt.”

Chan rolled his eyes when he heard Olympic champion Hanyu claim “scientifically... five rotations in the air is a possibility”. However, the rapidly changing landscape in men’s figure skating means that the artistic and aesthetically pleasing performers, such as Chan and two-times world champion Javier Fernandez, may soon become an extinct breed. “Unfortunately... I definitely don’t see another Javi or another me coming up in the world of skating. I see a lot of Boyangs and lot of Shomas coming up in the sport in the junior level,” Chan said. article/us-figureskating-men-quads-chan/chan-fears-for-skaters-health-in-era-of-quads-idUSKBN17L07T

“I’ve been through it all. I’ve kind of lived the bridge between these two generations. I hope I can be one of those skaters that’s a little bit like Switzerland, right in the middle. A technically sound skater and an artistically sound skater. “I’m the only skater that can offer that. I may be the last,” said Chan

r140 I agree with r142 but also off the top of my head, Hanyu cries almost as much as Oda, he looks more fabulous in ladies' costume designs than any of them, he lives like a monk, he's approaching his mid-twenties and still carries a teddy bear around, he talks to and pets that teddy bear in public, his life revolves around skating, he donates most of his winnings, doesn't have an agent even though he's the biggest star in the sport so he probably isn't making nearly as much as he could, he wins worlds then spends his evening regretting a mistake on his short rather than celebrating. Then, there's all the speculation about his sexuality.

But a lot of what makes him odd are also the things that make him great. I think he's one of the most intriguing figures that's ever been in the sport.

I think what I like about Chan, Hanyu, Plushenko, Weir, Yagudin, Oda is that they are all so unabashedly themselves.

Speaking of survival mechanisms, Hanyu started getting harassed by Dai fans when he was like 17 right? That's got to shape a person's outlook. Maybe that's why he's so private and closed off. Hanyu won his first Japanese title at 17/18 and had to stand there on the podium getting booed by the Dai fans. I think there's still like 15 minutes of footage that Japanese TV has never released because of that. I was a big Dai fan at the time, but I haven't forgotten the look on that kid's face as he had to stand on the podium getting heckled by crazy people.

R143 Thanks for the laughs. I'd forgotten about some of those Pchiddy gems.

r139 That's what I find so strange about the fan wars in Japan. Why do they direct all their hate at another one of their own skaters but seem to welcome foreign skaters, even the ones that treat their skaters poorly? In the US, even Nancy/Tonya never got that bad. I remember Sasha/Michelle fan wars got bitter but it was kept to the forums.

Someone on another forum said that there was tension between Ghislain and Brian that might cause Ghislain to leave TCC. Anyone hear of any evidence of this? I can see Ghislain being resentful - Brian gets most of the credit with Tracy getting most of the rest when it seems like Ghislain spends more time with Hanyu than anyone. If there were a split, I wonder if Hanyu would stick to TCC or follow Ghislain.

That breaks my heart, R144. And yeah, it might explain a lot of Hanyu's sensitivity and reserve. At least he has 'some' people on his side, at least I hope so. I can't help but worry what will come next for Hanyu - the transition out of skating is fraught for so many people. Interesting about Ghislain - all Hanyu really needs is a jump coach at this point, right? Well, add Shae Lynn, Buttle, and of course, Stephane for, uh, dance lessons?

R144 I wasn't a fan of Hanyu till this year. How awful for him to hear that from bitter Takahashi fans. Going through what he has gone through from the antis and fans who won't leave him alone I can understand why he isolates himself. It can't be healthy for him though.

If you thought Yuzuru looked like a girl, look at Junhwan Cha with his new haircut! He makes Yuzu look very koi (strong/masculine)

A few more Chiddy gems. So fun reminiscing - will anyone replace him in the next quad? Right now it looks like Zhou is the front runner but mere pretentiousness pales in comparison. Btw, did Chan nickname himself that nickname?

2012 Worlds Twenty four hours after Chan smoothed over the cracks in his short programme with what he called “his priceless expressions” and Oscar-winning acting skills

2013 Worlds “I deserved it,” declared Chan. “I think it was about who makes the least mistakes in the week.” (Chan fell twice, severe step out on 3 sal, and doubled a lutz while Ten’s only mistake was a doubled jump)

After 2014 Olympics: "Two silver medals is as good as a gold medal and not even Yuzuru can say he's had as much success as me in his career. "I'm the only male skater to have ever have left the Olympics with two medals so that's really special to say I have achieved," added Chan, who also won silver with Canada in the team event. "I think I'm still the best skater in the world for some time. I've above all pushed the sport in a new direction. We're really in a new generation."

After 2013 Grand Prix Final: Chan was asked if a camera stationed over the ice in Fukuoka threw him off in the short during his triple Lutz, which he ended up turning into a double. "A little bit," he said. "I don’t really want to make excuses, but it was just something I don’t experience normally. I’m one of the few skaters who looks up before a jump choreographically, and that’s what happened... ..."I definitely felt (fatigue) here at the Final," he said. "The body was getting sore and my knees were getting sore more often than usual.

After Hanyu beat all his record scores at NHK: "There was always, 'Oh, what if he did do a clean competition? What kind of marks would he get?' And now we know. Now that it's in front of our eyes, everyone's eyes, it's less of a mystery," Chan said. "So for me, it kind of calms me down, and makes me realize: Alright, that's something tangible that I can reach for” Chan said it will be a different competition in Spain, when the best in the world converge on one rink. Javier Fernandez of Spain, last season's world champion, will also be in the mix for gold. "It's different when all three are in one place," said Chan. "It changes the energy, it changes the vibe, it changes the dynamic between everyone on the ice, and who knows, maybe even the dynamic between the judges and how they feel seeing all three of us on one surface ... skating visually changes, and feels different depending on the energy and who else is on the ice, and who you have to compare to directly."

Could have sworn he also said something about Hanyu being at his maximum potential while Chan has yet to reach his potential - but maybe that's a journalist paraphrasing things.

After 2018 Olympics: "Or maybe the way skating is now is because of me—adding more quads and having a good balance all around the skater.

Hanyu has been through a lot of trauma in a short amount of time really. The earthquake/tsunami when he was 16, a year later he moved across the country, then he began to be harassed by Dai fans, Patrick fans, imagine being 18 and winning nationals after everything you’ve gone through less than two years and you get booed. I mean, he was a teenager. I would be surprised if he didn’t have some form of PTSD.

r151 At the very least, he's expressed some survivor's guilt after the earthquake.

r149 He's so pretty! Didn't remember him being good looking when I saw him at the Olympics. Will have to take another look.

Conrad, Junhwan, Hanyu, Javi...Jason must be queefing rainbows at the buffet of choices.

I doin't believe all Chan hate is Hanyu fandom; I'm just uber confused by how very specific Hanyu fans I have seen on Twitter tend to praise him specifically by comparing him to Chan. I guess there's a lot of pent-up bitterness? Which is strange to me because Chan came out and said he respects Hanyu and they're friendly toward each other, but I guess fans gotta be bitter about something.

Hanyu is known to be two-faced in Japan. Not necessarily in an evil villain way, but just in terms of how easily he cries and how weak he is emotionally and how strong and ruthless he can still get when it comes to winning. He's always been a loud and obnoxious kid - in his own words, fans, don't come at me - and he probably got burned a few times crossing a line in public or in front of his seniors and learned to keep a bit more to himself in public. I don't understand how people think he's an enigma - he's another person, so of course there are going to be private parts of him we don't have sight of. He's just a classic bipolar boy who's slow to grow up. Most Asian boys are, pampered as they are by parents well into adulthood.

Cha seems like a nice boy. I hope he doesn't get any crazy fans.

R149 Cha is a cutie. I am looking forward to his programs this season.

R154 I agree cha does seem sweet. Are the Korean fans as crazy as the Japanese fans?

R155 From what I've seen around Twitter and blog spheres, Cha's fans seem pretty normal. They have hopes in him but are careful about letting him have his space and admiring from afar. They seem to see him as a cute little brother for the most part and are cheering for him to grow. Most Koreans fans I've seen seem pretty mild, if not sharply nostalgic for Yuna.

I guess I don't see how being both emotional and strong/ruthless makes Hanyu "two-faced" or "bipolar," given that he's an athlete whose purpose is to win competitions. You're right, by his own description and others' description of him, Hanyu is aggressive - he said when he was little, he was thrown out of the rink every day; his coach said he got into fights with the older boys and even though he'd cry, he'd go at it again the next day; when Hanyu lost to Patrick Chan at Skate Canada in 2015, he said to him at the podium, something along the lines of, "Next time, I will win. I'll be standing there in first place, just you wait." So maybe you're bristling at the fact that some Tumblr/Twitter fans think Hanyu's some delicate thing who needs to be protected at all costs against the big bad seniors? I don't think any reasonable person who's paid attention to his career would think that. But it doesn't mean he hasn't gone through some tough shit at a pretty young age, which likely shaped his personality and can't easily be dismissed as bipolar disorder or another example of some racial stereotype.

R154 Being two faced and having opposite elements to your personality isn't the same. The former implies fakeness. No one in Japan apart from his antis think Hanyu is two-faced, they just love that he is multi-faceted: highly emotional but able to focus like crazy, sensitive and delicate but competitive etc. It's the duality a lot of people like. But it's not fake. You don't cry like Yuzu cried for Javi at the Olympics (first over him medalling after 3 Olympics and then the whole 'I can't do it without you' when Javier told him it was likely their last competition together), uncaring of the camera if you are two-faced. And I agree that he displays signs of ptsd when it comes to the earthquake and tsunami he survived and to be honest that wouldn't be surprising. A lot of people in that region in Japan still do.

I don't get this " ruthless" thing, I remember another skater, Gachinsky?, called Hanyu ruthless too, and it doesn't sound right to me. How a skater can be ruthless about winning? It's not soccer, you can't foul your opponents, or pretend something happened. They're out there on their own, it's up to them how they perform, and they have no opportunity to influence another skater's performance.

Gachinsky's career went nowhere super fast - I think on his part there's a pretty hefty serving of sour grapes....

I think by ruthless they mean that when he is on he is so good that he scares the shit out of his opponents. Think of Javier's meltdown after witnessing Yuzuru's world record free skate at Worlds 2017. Aliev also mentioned something like he feels scared looking at Yuzuru's eyes when they share the ice because it would destabilize him. It's really fascinating how this cute teddy bear holding guy can inspire such fear in his rivals and make some of them bitter for life.

Did Javi melt down after Worlds 2017? All I remember is a quick cut to the waiting room and Javi fell to his knees, bowing several times, while Shoma looked up with a sweet, gentle sort of smile on his face. I probably watched the medal ceremony but I don't remember anything ever happening at any of those.

What I do remember about Javi is the look in his eyes after Shoma's skate at Pyeongchang. I kept thinking he looked like he was just barely containing his despair but he had to go through the motions of hugging everyone and getting through the medals and such. And several people - Kurt Browning I think, maybe Orser, have said that they thought Javi deserved the silver - because Shoma's fall on his opening jump (loop or flip? I can't remember but some thought maybe it was rotated enough to get the points it got?) At least I think that was their rationale. Even Yuzu said something quickly that I tried to catch -- "Maybe Javi wasn't happy with the color of his medal but...." oh something like that -- I can't remember which interview he said that in, but he was already back in Japan when he said that -- not in front of Shoma or anything.

But anyway, Javi had 3 quads to Shoma's 4, and on his 3rd quad, he not only underrotated it, he turned it into a double!! And the emotion Shoma pulled out in the last part of his free is something that still gives me chill bumps - when the guy starts singing Nessun Dorma, just wow, I don't know how that little guy can bring tears to my eyes like nobody else, even Hanyu (and I'm a fanyu) -- well, I don't understand it but he can really get the tears flowing from my eyes. (I also hate every Javi program except 'possibly' the Man of La Mancha but I still don't feel like he's 100% committed - not like Shoma anyway - and the Chaplin/Elvis/Beatles sort of junk I despise on anybody, even Kolyada, whom I normally adore)

correction: ** some thought maybe Shoma's first quad jump he fell on was NOT rotated enough to get the points....

R162 Javi was first after the sp at Worlds but apparently seeing Yuzu's free and hearing the massive score he got went to his head and then he made huge mistakes in his free and finished off podium. Orser mentioned afterwards that if he had known he would have kept Javi away from the screen backstage.

Ohhhh ok. I've got my competitions mixed up, because the one I described had Javi back in the waiting room AFTER his skate when he reacted to Yuzuru's wonderful free - The camera turned to Shoma and Javi, back there, and Shoma looked down at Javi, doing the bowing -- I think it's one of Yuzu's record breaking free's, but in any case, it was after Javi's, so it couldn't be what you're talking about. I'll have to go diving into Youtube to figure out which one that was (with Javi bowing down in the green room or whatever they call it where they go sit after they skate if they're in the top 3).

I think you are confusing with GPF 2015 where Yuzu was first after the short and last to compete in the free and broke his world again once more 2 weeks after NHK. His score for that competition is still the WR for total score till now. That whole event was crazy. All the top guys performed really well.

You're right! I don't know how I mixed that up with Worlds 2017. Thanks! That was a hell of a thing, the back-to-back record breaking. I'll watch World '17 again and pay more attention to Javi. You know, people always seem to say he's the laid-back one and Yuzuru isn't - but he chokes due to emotion, though I'm not sure if he does more than Yuzuru, but as a fairly new fan, I would say he's more likely to choke than Yuzu, who seems more like he's always battling himself and not thrown off by other skaters. But if I could mix those two comps, I could be totally wrong on that as well.

@162 Shoma’s opening quad was a quad loop and he definitely underrotated it, you could tell in real time it was UR. But it wasn’t called. If it had been called, Javi would have gotten silver. He had another jump, I think it was a solo 4T that was also borderline UR. Shoma actually had a bit of a UR problem last season but he never got called on it. He by far has the worst jump technique amongst the top men, he doesn’t do as many revolutions in the air because he pre-rotates so excessively, especially on toe jumps, but he gets the same amount of points as the ones who do it right.

A lot of people think Javi should have gotten the silver over him, even with the doubled sal. I have to laugh at the Yuzu interview where he mentions Javi’s medal color (he says something, “well in regards to the color, Javi probably thinks...”) because it’s so clear that he means he thinks Javi should have gotten a different medal color, as in silver. But of course he can’t directlysay that because it would inpolite.

But what can you do, Javi seems happy enough to have medaled and Shoma’s silver is still completely overshadowed by Yuzu’s gold in Japan anyways. When it was announced Yuzu was going to helsinki GP instead of NHK, which Shoma got instead, people started canceling their hotel reservations and reselling their tickets like crazy.

Yuzu clearly expected Javier to get silver hence his reaction in the green room when he flopped on him and they hugged and cried without caring that Shoma wasn't done with his FS. At that point they knew he had messed the first quad iirc. Too bad judges turn a blind eye to the little gremlin's technical issues time and again.

I love Shoma - but I agree he should be judged correctly. Are they just idiots? If amateurs around the world can see if jump technique deficits, it's just weird that the judges can't get it right. I don't know much about skating, but I have issues with the Russian girls' skating marks, especially Medvedeva's. Her skating just looks, well, sort of bad to me. Some of her jumps are just downright ugly to me - like someone just starting out. But she gets the highest marks time after time. Is there a lot of underhanded deals with the big federations or something?

Zhous's Twitter. I can't stand his skating and can't stand this tweet. It sounds like it's all about him.

I'm also in the group of Javi should have won silver. These judges are useless. I bet they can go find people on the streets to act as judges and they would do a better job.

R162 Javi's FS seem a bit similar to me but I've liked a lot of his SPs: Black Betty, Malaguena, 2018 Chaplin. And his 2013/14 FS stood out as a bit different from his other LPs. But that can be said about a lot of skaters, about Yuzuru too who usually has big dramatic LPs with the 2016/17 being different, and more varied SPs. I guess whether one likes a skater or not lies in their preferred LP style.

z171 Maybe he IS the next Patrick Chan. But I think he generally means we'll, despite his egocentrism. It's really going to be fun if gets to play with the top boys and has to do interviews. Will he low-key trash the competition like Patrick did or will he be all "I'm so happy to compete with them, they're wonderful skaters, but the sun shines out of MY ass" lol.

R119 I think he wants complete control over his image. He would have to endorse products, TV shows, people he doesn't like. They take a large cut. He can get sponsors and offers without an agency. These agencies also have bad reputations and his family is very careful.

Misha uploaded an instastory with Boyang's blades. I don't have IG I can't see it. Does he know about the coaching situation?

R174 Re MIsha's instastory - nothing noteworthy as far as I can tell. Just a video of Misha skating with someone in Qingdao (where Boyang was last spotted) and a picture of Boyang's skates with the goldblades on the floor in a hallway.

R171 Oh Vincent. I'm glad my 17-year-old musings were not immortalized on SNS for all the world to see. I doubt I was that pretentious, but I'm pretty sure I was that dumb.

This was a really cute moment with Yuzuru bringing out his inner diva but then Mr Ge had to come and ruin it because god forbid something happens in front of a phone or a camera and he isn't involved. Was really annoying especially because other fancams from the gala practices show Radford and Yuzuru doing dumb shit like that together and generally having fun just for themselves not because someone is filming. They seem to get along well for some reason.

I kinda feel like the Misha Ge hate here goes too far. He gets grief for things we wouldn't think twice about if it was someone else. He joins in on some silly fun for two minutes up for a pic, like lots of people have tendency to do and other participants usually feel that the more the merrier, and he "ruins it"? No, seriously, if it was Junhwan or Boyang nobody would blink an eye.

Javi did some Spanish interviews after Olys where he seemed to be a little bitter over losing out on the silver, alluding to the questionable judging. It's obvious Hanyu thinks he should have gotten the silver too and I'm actually surprised he came out and said as much, given the potential for backlash in Japan. Fortunately, Javi doesn't seem to be the type to dwell on things for too long.

Radford's hot. Hanyu couldn't have picked better to bring out his inner gay with. Lookswise, they make such a classical hot daddy/ cute twink pair, lol.

R178 I personally don't get too offended by Misha either. He is a little pretentious and self-promoting in a way that seems to be disproportionate to his talent or influence in the skating world, so I think that's why people dislike him. Also, there have been a number of things over the past few months (that I can remember) that caused people to go from just rolling their eyes to outright hating him. Doesn't mean everything he does is cause for uproar though.

R178 I was indifferent to Misha but he is always trying to attach himself to popular things or people to get likes and new fans on social media like with the whole wanking of BTS to get the kpop crowd or the cringey 50 shades. Also his series of rants about how he is Yuzuru's best friend who showed him the light in the darkness and thanks to him he is now 2 times OGM. People here bash the Shibs or Plushenko for doing similar things. It's annoying because it feels insincere.

R179 Skating fans also question Uno's jumping scores in Japan and it's creating antis. They haven't harassed him yet but you see more and more angry comments and threads in articles about him. Part of the anger comes from the belief that the federation has unusually propped up Uno while ignoring the women and allowing them to be underscored. They also don't like Satoko's underrotations but she's less controversial.

R182 I wonder if some of the tone-deafness in MIsha's posts is due to his English. He speaks a lot of languages and his English is quite good, but sometimes non-native speakers aren't able to see how certain nuances in phrasing or tone might rub people the wrong way. That's probably a way too charitable read on Misha's SNS habits, but I wonder if it's part of the problem.

R177 maybe it's just me but I think Yuzuru is comfortable of who he is on the the ice. I just don't know if he'll ever come out. I really doubt it. But I feel this might be the real him.

R183 Shoma thus far has benefited from being in Hanyu's shadow while also getting support from fans and the fed for various reasons, but I'm very curious as to how he will fare when this starts to change, with Dai's return, increasing resentment for the uncalled UR, increasing expectations as Hanyu's retirement nears etc. etc. I find him hilarious, so I bear him no ill-will, but I am excited to see how this all plays out.

R185 Hanyu seems to have a very clear idea of how he wants to look on the ice. His aesthetic has pretty much remained the same over the years, despite the criticism and hate he's gotten over his style and costumes.

Ugh, I specifically said I don't mean two-faced in a bad way but in an opposite extreme way but leave it to the ubers to pile on and get defensive. The two-faced comment comes from Hanyu's own friends. Stop projecting your definition of the term and getting mad about it. He's been said to be ruthless and aggressive about winning while also being extremely delicate emotionally, and I'm literally quoting Japanese here from people that love him. No need to take offense and get so protective. It's not a racial stereotype to look at a guy who swings between extreme highs and lows (his own words, not mine) and think that looks bipolar. And there's nothing wrong with being bipolar, if you think it's such an insult.

R185 I agree. Don't think he'll ever come out but at least he is able to express himself while on the ice. Actually I always find the comments from his fraus that he is so normal off ice which means he can't be gay funny, especially since Yuzuru himself has mentioned how the ice is the only place where he can be himself and do things he can't do off ice. That's pretty telling imo. And every time he is giving free space for his creativity he comes up with things like the Swan Notte Stellata, Hope and Legacy and his recent exhibition program. And the designer who does his costumes explained how he is the one in charge and telling her what to do, how he wants things to look down to the tiniest details. Even the seemingly more warrior like Seimei is actually inspired by a divinator character (initially Seimei is a real historical figure but Yuzuru took inspiration from the movie because he loved it so much and is a huge fan of the main actor). In the movie Seimei is very mischievous, both hated and revered for his powers, has no female love interest but instead cares deeply for another man and ends up crying for him. It's interesting because both Yuzuru and Shae Lynn Bourne who watched the movie before choreographing the program have commented how similar he and Seimei are.

R188 Look, you need to stop calling people "ubers" when they rightfully point out that "two-face" is the wrong expression to use if it's your intention to say Hanyu has dualing elements in personality. Why does it matter whether the misuse of this term came from your own brain or from a Hanyu fan you found Tumblr? Nobody is criticizing you because they are an uber or being protective of Hanyu. Also, if you give a non-sensical armchair diagnosis of someone you don't know and people say, don't give an armchair diagnosis of someone you don't know, it's absurd to come back with, "What's wrong with bipolar disorder?"

R188 Two-faced is negative in nature and not the right term to use if you want to illustrate that he has a dual personality in a neutral way.

R188 "Two-faced" has a very specific meaning in English: insincere, deceitful, lying, back-stabbing, hypocritical etc. The meaning of the term is ALWAYS negative, that's why people latched onto it. What you're describing is not "two-faced" and being an uber has nothing to do with it. It's as if you said "he's a lying douche but I don't mean in negatively" - people will correct you.

R180 Eric is very hot. Someone in an earlier skating thread called him "ugly." I know tastes differ, but there is no way someone with eyes would consider this man "ugly."

R189 yes saying he can only be himself on the ice tells me what i need to know. I also watch him off the ice in interviews and his mannerisms. That tells me a lot and why I also believe he Is gay. I don't care too much in how his voice is. I look at the body language.

R175 Thank you and fsigstories has it now. So Misha and Boyang are at the same rink. That's the first Boyang-related photo in weeks. It's tagged with MKblades but it's a personal photo by Ge so it I think the intention was more to tell us where Boyang is right now than to advertise the blades. Would it be too late to move to Canada in August? The coaching announcement is taking so long even if it's not happening that I want to believe there is still a chance both sides are trying to come up with a compromise.

I really wish I knew what caused Boyang not to move/delay his move to Canada. The curiosity is eating me.

August doesn't seem too late if the choreos are done, it's 3 months before Boyang's 1st GP, but the effects of training at TCC aren't gonna be particularly great either, I think. If he had gone in June, there would have been time to get used to new place, new training methods etc with some months left for full-out training.

But it looks like Boyang won't be going after all, which is such a pity.

r154 Every significant fandom has its nut jobs and the Chan/Hanyu fanwars have been going on since 2014. Hanyu has the most because of the sheer size of his fan base and the Chan Stans are the most aggressive, hyper defensive fans I've seen on the boards. When you have to deal with enough of the crazies, you start resenting the skater so both sides find excuses to snipe at each other. Now a lot of the Chan Stans have moved on to Nathan even though their skating is nothing alike and those sides are sniping at each other.

Here's Shoma's short program for next season (Stairway to Heaven.) I wonder if they've intentionally made his short too short so his bare stomach shows a LOT, especially during the spins? I don't think he did the exact same jumps he'll do in competition because I didn't notice any combos and I'm not sure these were quads, but then I can never tell a triple from a quad anyway.

I love that song but I would have preferred the real thing, instead of a guitar-only version, but I guess this is more sophisticated. Anyway, I guess I like it - I love Shoma, so it'll probably grow on me. There's a 25 second intro before the skate starts - he debuted it at the Nagano ice show in June.

* I wonder if they've intentionally made his SHIRT too short...

If Philippe Meriguet sees Uno with short shirt and bare stomach, he will go into a deep orgasm even more than usual and will try to mark him with a 11

I think it would be a strange coincidence if the ISU suspended the Chinese judges (or whatever they did) and China canceled two international competitions in China, one a Grand Prix event, and at the same time, Boyang mysteriously is being kept home in China instead of being sent to a western coach.

I think feeling singled out and attacked (which I think they kind of were because there are other judges with very questionable marking) might cause a country which tends to be a bit paranoid and isolationist to act on their hurt/angry feelings.

Then again, I guess it 'could' be just a coincidence. But all the ISU unpleasantness happened soon AFTER Boyang was announced, at least by Orser, to be coming to TCC. These things happened very close together, so one could be part of an angry response to the other, imo.

R200 LOL. Has Meriguet loved anyone as much Shoma in the past?

I'm looking forward to the next crazy Misha Ge tweet or instagram post. R196 I too want to know what's going on with Boyang. It's already July. I would be surprised if he goes to tcc. I just don't see it happening now. That's a shame.

Well, first I just want to post this because Conrad is so damned gorgeous.

But I also need someone smarter than me to explain it. It's from HER Instagram stories but SHE is the one who has a grand prix assignment (Rostelecom) and he doesn't. Or is it him saying this to her?? He turned 18 yesterday so isn’t it time for Conrad to go to seniors – he has a quad flip (at a minimum) – I’ve seen a video of it (it’s on here somewhere).

R204 Orzel is entered in Junior Grand Prix again. He was only 13th at last year's Junior Worlds. He has quads but so far not much constitency in landing them in competition.

Oh dear. Maybe it's true that there's a height limit in the quad era. He's 6 feet tall. There may never be another big one. I think Dmitri Aliev is close - 5'11"? but he's brilliant on day and a disaster the next. He's a member of FSU's "Team Trainwreck"

I've been thinking about the height as well. It seems to be me that quads are possible if one is tall but they're prone to greater inconsistency. Maybe it'll be different with the new batch of juniors who train quads since pre-puberty. But maybe they'll lose their skills like girls lose theirs. Gogolev will be an interesting case to watch. It's a pity Nam didn't stick with Orser, we would have had a chance to see whether Orser's insistence on off-ice training would have helped. We will see how they will fare with Junhwan, he's quite tall and might grow taller still. I really hope they'll succeed with Junhwan because he's got all the signs of a rounded skater.

And weight too. I always wondered why Javi's 3rd quad was so inconsistent - he doubled it at the Olympics - it was his later jumps at Worlds 2017 that went wonky, he actually started quite well. He's not that tall, about the same as Yuzuru, but he's heavier, probably 150ish? Maybe these taxing 4 revolutions and extra pounding on the landing ankle mean you have to be thin, or it's just too much poundage on the ankle ligaments, which probably aren't 'that' much stronger in a taller and/or heavier man than they are in a lighter one.

Yuzuru, Nathan, Boyang, Vincent - they're all thin, and nobody seems to be touching them, at the moment, when it comes to 4, 5 or 6 quads. A coach, I can't remember her name, said she'd expect shorter, smaller guys to be sought out to develop for men's singles nowadays. I think she may be right.

Oh and I just remembered - Javi did an interview after the Olympics and was asked if nerves got to him, but he said, no, the third quad always gave him trouble. And he clearly had great technique - why didn't he add a 4th, like his real rivals at Pyeongchang? He also said his body had trouble handling the pounding of quads. He wasn't even that heavy - but heavier than the main quadsters, for sure.

Tarasova complained that Aliev was too fat (and Kolyada skated like a girl ??) Kolyada seems to have the right body type - maybe slightly heavier than the big 4. Oh I forgot Uno - he's on the thick side but being 5'3", if that, the weight wouldn't be very high - I read somewhere he weighed about 120 (don't know if it's accurate). Yuzuru's has been reported anywhere from 117 to 125. That's awfully thin, but he has the best technique and is able to land 4 quads, even in the latter half of the program, as he did in the team competition in 2017. At this rate, the boys may develop the same eating disorders Eteri's girls are sadly famous for - Adam Rippon already spoke of trying to hold it to 3 slices of bread per day. Yikes!

Hanyu is lucky in that he can eat whatever he wants and doesn't put on weight. He explained in an interview post Olympics that he likes eating at McDonald's for instance and doesn't gain weight. If anything he has trouble gaining muscle mass and the moment he stops training he loses it all. I think Boyang, Nathan and the other quadsters have probably a similar metabolism.

Javier seemed to have lost a lot of weight before Olys and Europeans, his legs seemed even thinner than Hanyu's.

It does look like the sport favours smaller slighter build. I think it'll be difficult to compete with people of Asian origin. Kolyada seems an anomaly for his ethnicity, I think the average height of a young man in Northern and eastern Europe is about 6 ft, and US just a bit shorter on average. It'd be a different story if the sport were more popular, then we'd get wider pool and men with more favourable physical predispositions would stick.

Kolyada only has one stable quad.

Hanyu can probably eat a whole cake and not gain weight.

People with asthma need more calories - takes more energy to breathe or something.

Its interesting that Shoma can jump well while not being skinny. Nathan's a little thicker than the others too and he's also smaller (5'5") so there must be some combination of short height and skinnyness that's just right.

I don't know how I feel about quads. I kinda wish they'd limited them to three per long program with repetitions allowed in combination. Then maybe there'd be not only more artistry and choreography development but also more room for larger skaters.

R213 in that clip Yuzu is eating like actors do when they want to show they eat like normal people - out of the huge plate of food in front of them, they're just picking at one piece of lettuce, or in Yuzu's case, a lone sprinkle.

No surprise Boyang is in China. This probably means no TCC. Misha always latching onto someone. lol. I do look forward to these posts from Misha though.

For our Conrad Orzel devotee

r216 We should come to terms with Misha and be grateful, we actually get relevant info.

Was it really an eating disorder that caused Anastasia Tarakanova to leave Eteri? Did Tarakanova shop around or did Plushenko hear she was unhappy and poached her? I like the idea of an Eteri and Plushenko rivalry. Plushenko will bring the drama while Orser will be careful.

News I got from FSU:

According to reliable source, the fed even offered to let Boyang's Mom come to Canada with him but he just does not want to leave China. The fed was very frustrated.

Jack Gallagher of the Japan Times reports that the Jin-to-Orser move won't happen. His information comes from an anonymous "veteran" skating source.

R211 Kolyada is average height for a Russian man. Eastern Europeans are much smaller than the Scandinavians.

R220 Is your reliable source a personal source?

I'm just quoting posters on the Figure Skating Universe message board (at the end of this thread: Chinese Skating News, Pt. 3) - all of a sudden, multiple sources are coming out to say Jin isn't coming, including Gallagher's article.

Lots of discussion of all this also at the link below, on another figure skating message board.

R200 It doesn't sound like Boyang is going to TCC, but I don't buy this storyline that it's his decision. Chinese Fed controls everything, think Han Yan or Wang/Wang. No way would they countenance Boyang changing his mind on some whim. In his insta posts when he was last in Canada, he was effusive about the opportunity to train there.

R221, after reading all this, I think the "reliable source" is wrong and Boyang wants to go to Orser but the Chinese fed has blocked the move. They had never officially announced it anyway, if I understand it all correctly. I still think this has to do with the ISU officials being sanctioned.

Yes, I agree with you R223. I shouldn't have brought that rumor over here from FSU but was making notes and it was the first mention that I found today (and one theory that was being discussed at first - less so, at this point).

I'm so pissed about Boyang. First they screw him over and then they try to dump it all on him, making him look like either a big diva or a big pussy depending on which "source" is talking.

I would never have chosen for things to work out this way, but since they have, I hope Misha Ge gloms onto Boyang and quits plotting with Evgenia to piss off Yuzuru. He's got a new host to attach himself as a parasite to. I think he grew up in Beijing and speaks pretty good Chinese too. Stay over there, Misha, and away from Toronto!!

r221. So it looks like I thought Kolyada was 166cm tall instead of 176, what's wrong with my eyes. Yeah, 176 sounds pretty average.

Lol, "reliable" source.

I'm with everybody, I'm not buying it. Boyang prattle cheerfully about his month of choreographing in Canada, things are settled enough that Orser announces they'd be taking him on, and then Boyang changes his mind and they let him?

Sorry r222. Missed the FSU part. Boyang already spent time in Canada and used to being away from home with all the competitions. If his mom was allowed to go with him it's strange he would suddenly decide he can't leave China. Hanyu and Fernandez go home several times a year. Not to rag on China but the air quality and training conditions are much better in Toronto and that's what you would want as an athlete.

Pretty upset Boyang won't be going to Toronto. No he did not make this choice. I think he was looking forward to perhaps going. R226 LOL! Yes Misha needs to stay away from Toronto! Who will be the next person he clings onto?

Oh wow, the overprotectiveness here is insane. "twofaced" is a literal translation of a word Hanyu's friend used to describe him but yeah, mob an English speaker for not tiptoeing around the sensibilities of how English speakers view the word. I'd rather someone call him bipolar any day than listen to the dreamy essays about how mysterious the enigmatic Japanese boy is, that shit gets tiring if you know exactly how not enigmatic he is to an Asian person's eyes.

Is the Boyang news official? It's too bad if it is... I wonder if there's any truth to the choreographer power games that Orser is rumored to be playing.

Misha seems to be cropping up pretty much everywhere these days. I guess he does do good work as a choreographer.

Get some medication. The one with a mental condition and what appears as bioolarity seeing your posts is you not Hanyu. The translator who translated whatever Hanyu's 'friend' said was probably an ESL.

*bipolarity

Here's Phil Hersh's article on Huang Feng, one of the suspended Chinese judges. Apparently, he's just passed the test to be tech controller. There's a job for everyone at the ISU! LOL.

Feng has been promoted. He was an Internatinal Technical Controller and he has now passed the exam to be an ISU Technical Controller (so allowed to officiate in ISU Championships and GPs). ISU said he won't appoint him for next season in any ISU events.

Is Hanyu’s asthma like Sharapova’s heart issues?

R235. I don't know. You tell us. You're the one who reported that he pooped the other day. Was it delicious? Did he let you clean up afterwards? But even more relevant to your question, was his breathing labored when he slapped you on the ass and asked you to leave?

I've felt Misha had the hots for Yuzu ever since I watched him at the Autumn Classic a few years ago. Misha literally could not keep away from him and, at one point, looked like he was about to push Max Aaron off the podium they were all standing on. I don't know how Yuzu feels about Misha but he does seem attracted to other male skaters--Johnny, Stephane. And that posing he did with Eric Radford--priceless. My guess is that he knows exactly what he's doing--he may not officially "come out" but he's making his preference very clear to anyone paying attention. In contrast, he's never looked all that thrilled with the attention he's gotten from all the female skaters who always want pictures with him.

R236 And he didn't even say arigatou gozaimasu. *SSSSOB*

r237. You think he's buttering the public up for the moment he retires and goes on with his life with all his fans pretty much knowing he's gay? I never thought all the gay vibes he gives off are deliberate, just him being at ease and having fun, until that photo with his hand on Stephane's butt. Perhaps now that he got what he wanted, the ogm, he loosened up a little. Or maybe he's just trolling.

R239 I don't think Hanyu is trolling I truly believe this is who he is. Unless he is an academy award winning actor we don't know about. I don't think he will go in front of cameras and come out. That would not be wise. I watch him both on and off the ice and I believe 90 percent he's gay. I have to give myself that 10 percent just in case.

Look at how straight and manly he acts.

r118 All of the top skaters take stroking classes together but I don't think Hanyu was actually in that photo. Joseph Phan and Shingo Nishiyama were on the end. Someone was next to Conrad but he or she was wearing short sleeves and stripped pants which Hanyu doesn't wear but Jun Hwan Cha does. I also thought the description was saying Hanyu was in the photo and that's why it was pixelated, but now it looks like it was a bad joke or purposely ambiguous for likes. That photo and all of her TCC photos until today have been deleted so the club might have had a word with her parents. The Team Orser fan page (which is looking suspicious itself) still has the photo.

R241 he isn't acting. I don't think he cares at this point. He won't lose any fans over his sexuality either. It's nice to see him be who he is.

r240. I didn't mean to suggest he was trolling with his behaviour, just with that photo. I don't doubt he's behaviour is genuine.

R242 Oh no! Our little mole has been uncovered and sent to the gulag. I guess if TCC policy was unclear at some point, they're now making it pretty clear.

r245 Does this mean Med and Jason won't be posting either?

R246 I haven't seen anything recently from either of them on insta. They've posted other things, but no TCC content.

R243 You are naive if you believe he wouldn't lose fans by being open with his sexuality. I have seen quite a lot of homophobic comments from his fans asking him to please be more like a man and stop wearing too feminine costumes. I have also seen idiotic Japanese fans bashing Takahashi for being gay while gloating about how perfect Yuzu is as if those 2 things can't go together. I mean I dislike Takahashi and 90% of his Japanese fans are awful bullies but some Japanese Hanyu fans also need to look after their own shit and stop using gay as an insult. As if Yuzu who has Weir as one of his idols would approve.

I think the class roster could also be part of the problem. It was posted privately by another skater but the Team Orser fan page got ahold of it and put it on their own instagram. I would look to the other skaters at TCC like Conrad and Joseph to see if there is a change.

R248 Yes, he will lose the homophobes, but Hanyu emerged as a giant pink sakura petal for his Ex recently and gleefully held Javi's hands for all to see, so he clearly does not give a shit about what those fans think.

r204 I think the text is supposed to be a thought bubble from Conrad. My guess is that this is her way of publicly staking her claim on her man.

R251 Are they dating? Between that and the cross around his neck, I'm no longer interested.

R249 Shingo, Conrad and Joseph all seem to be posting the typical shots we get from TCC - pics with one or just a few skaters who have clearly consented to have their picture taken, with no one recognizable in the background.

R248 I can't call those people fans. More like homophobes. Plus he has so many international fans who I believe would still be fans if he ever came out. Johnny Weir has lots of fans and everyone knows he's gay.

r252 sorry, I don't know much about them. I was just trying to interpret the pic

R255 Following your lead, I looked more closely and think he might be hover-handing her. I might also be interested again.

R204 R251

It's the "Ask a question" thing on Instagram Stories that everybody has done yesterday. The "why are you leaving me to go Senior etc" is the question by Orzel. The "I will wait for you" is her answer

r257 thanks for the info. though I'm a little disappointed by the truth, lol.

r250 would a homophobe be a Hanyu fan in the first place? Even if he turns out to not be gay, how could any self respecting homophobe even consider liking a guy who wears ruffles and sparkles, grabs guys' butts, and is that limp wristed? Apparently he even had a lisp when he was younger. Is the denial in Japan so powerful that it wouldn't even cross their minds that he could be gay?

r207 Plushenko is 5' 11". Not sure what he weighed when he competed but he claims to have trained quad axels and quad/quad combos. Alexei Yagudin is 5'9" and he didn't look all that scrawny when he competed. Of course, neither of them ever did more than 2 quads in a program.

That Stephen Gogolev was born 4 years too early. I haven't personally seen his skating but I've been told that he doesn't have anything but the jumps. He still has a lot of time to work on it before he can compete in seniors but now skaters know that they need multiple quads to compete. He won't be able to just out base value the field like Nathan did unless the depth of talent declines again.

r258 obviously I meant born 4 years too late

Somebody on one of the threads said Plushy was lying about his height. But he's a little bit taller than Hanyu (lots of photos of them in each other's arms lol.) If Hanyu is 5'8" which I believe, then maybe Plushy is 5'9" (Lambiel's height) or at most 5'10". He's thick. Last photo I saw of him, just yesterday I think, he was wearing a neck brace and apologizing to Japanese fans that he hurt himself practicing some hard jumps for a new program for them and he wouldn't be appearing in the next ice show, "The Ice" or something like that.

Poor Plushy. BTW, I think he lies/exaggerates a bit, but who's counting...

R261 I know! I'm sure he's injured because the man has clearly pushed his body to its limits, but just seeing his neck brace and the way he talks about his injury made me think of a not-too-subtle personal injury plaintiff.

Plus my wasn't thick when he competed tough. He wasn't thin like some teen skaters are/were nowadays, but he was always on the slender side.

OK, the rules probably haven't changed. People are allowed to post photos as long as they have permission from the skaters. Another girl still has her photo with Hanyu up. It must be the trolling photo that got the other girl's mom or dad in trouble. I think Med and Jason were told to reduce their social media posting in general after the endless tweets from Jason.

Not to defend those homophobic Hanyu stans but using gay as an insult started with Takahashi fans calling Hanyu gay. As Takahashi is practically out and everyone but his biggest stans accept he's gay, it set off the Hanyu ubers which is why they taunt Takahashi being gay. Knowing fan behavior, if or when either officially comes out, those homophobes will suddenly start accusing everyone else of homophobia and act like being gay is the best thing.

The lisp Hanyu had came from the corrective braces on the back of his teeth. It was only there for those few years. Lisps aren't associated with gay men in Japan, anyway. There is such thing as a gay affectation but he doesn't have it, not that every gay man does. Takahashi does and got asked about it when he slipped up. He and the other skaters would joke it was because he only hung out with the female skaters. He hasn't masked his sexuality since.

R264 You would know better than me, but I've seen a few Dai fans argue vehemently against him being gay, especially with respect to the picture you posted. That he was just hangin' with a few friends and some LADIES (at a g*y pride parade) and that this doesn't mean anything other than that he's an accepting guy.

r264 What is gay affectation in Japan and what did Dai do when he slipped up?

I thought Dai actually said he was gay in the autobiography he wrote.

I second r266, what's gay affectation in Japan?

R258 Here's Gogolev's SP from 2017 if you're interested in watching him.

Sorry, here's the link

What was Takahashi's slip up? Now I'm curious

Here's Gogolev's FS from 2018 Canadian Nats to occupy us, as we all eagerly await instructions on how to be gay in Japan.

R265 He has photos cuddling with his boyfriend, spotted getting hotel rooms with his boyfriend, hanging out with fellow gays, spotted at gay bars. I think he hasn't officially come out because of his mom but he's open otherwise.

R266 r267 It's an affectation and speech called オネエ言葉 onee kotoba. It's happened on multiple shows and the hosts, guests and Takahashi laugh about it and how he's more feminine and pays closer attention to women's fashion than most women. I'll see if I can find some examples later.

R267 I don't think so but he could have implied he is.

R273 Not disputing that he's gay or that most of his fans know he is , just pointing out some people's level of delusion. Who is Dai's boyfriend? Thanks for answering these questions.

I keep thinking about Dais return. I think he is partly returning to be an ass. I think he dislikes Hanyu and wants to have attention for himself. I believe he is in Toronto this week. Hanyu will probably stay far away.

R258 I think Plushenko is at least 5'10. Sometimes on the ice Hanyu looks taller than he is because he has to wear insoles in his boots as he needs to take them a size or 2 bigger than his feet apparently but I think 5'8 is accurate for him. It's funny because all his height seems to be in his legs and neck. If not for his long neck he would be much shorter.

r275. I don't think so. To be an ass he'd have to have a chance to defeat Hanyu and he doesn't, which I think he knows. Fans and media won't magically stop being obsessed with Hanyu either, and Dai knows that too, he's not stupid. He may want to get some attention by his return but I can't blame him for that. It' not like media and fan attention is limited quantitatively. Otherwise, I do believe his reasons for his return, that he wants to finish his career on a more positive note. I'm just wondering if he can given the quad era.

r272. Does Brian dye his hair?

That FS was a bit boring, but tbh no worse than lots of other current guys. The SP was much better, it's not an empty program. Stephen might fare better if he goes up against his peers at junior GP. The pops in the FS might have been caused by nerves due to competing against adults at Nats.

I found this on ig. I look at how he is (behaviors). Who eats cake like that? lol.

r292 I find him interesting but people go through the effort of finding clips of him just eating stuff and doing of montage of just that? Shit, that's creepy.

I find it creepier with the ones putting the clips together. That takes a lot of effort. Anyone can go through pictures on instagram not necessarily looking for clips of him eating.

R261 hmmm. I am not saying plushenko is not injured. He might be over exaggerating. The injury though. I also think he lies and exaggerates quite a bit.

R274 I don't know if they're still together but his name is Takanori. He's not famous so no one knows what he does or how they met. They used to wear rings on their left ring finger so I think they were engaged.

R278: No, his girlfriend gave an interview, saying it’s natural.

The pic of Dai and his boyfriend is hot... more please

R283 it's just two buddies having fun together talking about hot girls

Here are a few more pics of Dai and his "buddy"

R277, perhaps Dai is returning for financial reasons. Skaters are apparently the most marketable when they're still competing. Which is why, of course, most of them (at least in the US) avoid formally announcing their retirement.

Just saw this video of the original Seimei backward crossrolls stsq that SLB said they had to take out to maximize points. That's too bad, it looks cool.

R289 thanks for sharing. Its quite beautiful to watch. I'm always in awe when I watch Hanyu skate. From his skating to the expressions on his face. He feels that music.

Poor Plushy. First he breaks his neck (or something) and then he loses two coaches (how many did he even have?) I wonder if he needed that ice show money to pay them? (just a wild guess - I have no idea - how 'does' one start a skating school??)

Yulia Lavrenchuk (supposedly an excellent jump technician) and Alexei Vasilevsky (two senior coaches at Plushenko’s Angels) moved to Anna Tsareva’s group/rink. They also took skaters Valeria Mikhailova (definite) and (maybe) Vladimir Samoilov with them.

16 year old Mikhailova was 7th at Rostelecom in 2017. Smoilov is 19 and the 2017 JGP silver medalist (Wiki: he has recently had success at both the junior and senior levels a competitions like various levels of the Russian Cup and Minsk Arena Ice Star. He's had a difficult skating career up until this point (in fact, he was considering retirement at the end of last season), but the 2017-18 season so far has been a breakout one for him.)

r283 yum. No wonder Dai didn't care about skating for a few years. Maybe they broke up and he needs something else to distract him these days.

Wasn't Dai crying in the stands when Hanyu won at the Olympics? Do people get that emotional over someone they hate? Seems like if there actually is lingering animosity between them, it's on Hanyu's side, understandably so since he seems like the victim in the scenario.

r291 I remember Lavrenchuk. Skated fast and beautiful jumps, but telegraphed the fuck out of them, looked really ugly on her cross overs, and had boring empty programs.

Lol Takahashi was crying over Shoma not Yuzuru. Actually there are pictures/fancams of his reaction after Yuzuru's SP and it's not a pleased one. And for the FS he only cried after Shoma's performance and his results. Western teletubbies trying to make it as if Takahashi likes Hanyu now have a bad case of voluntary blindness/memory loss.

woops. Completely forgot about Shoma. I'm going to have to look for those fancams, sounds hilarious.

I doubt it will happen, but I hope Dai podiums at nationals. Would love to see him and Hanyu be forced to interact. They can't possibly avoid questions about each other if they're in a press conference together, can they?

Yes! Takahashi cried for Shoma. I haven't seen fancams of his reaction after Hanyu's sp. If anyone finds it I would love to see that. I still find something strange with Takahashi's return. Plus the fact he announced it the day before Hanyu was to receive the people's award? He could have waited till after. This all sounds calculated and perhaps his unfinished business is beating Hanyu. We probably agree that won't happen. But what if he is hoping for an injury and then sees the opening? I don't know. I don't trust Takahashi.

Geez, you guys are awful attributing Takahashi the worst motives. Can't the guy really want just another shot? I bet not everything in Takahashi's life revolves around Hanyu. Unlike some people. A bit of support for the gay guy here? Maybe he did cry over Shoma, but c'mon he can't be hoping to beat Hanyu, the champ is just too far ahead. And banking on an injury is just stupid, considering Hanyu can win motherfucking olympics with an injury. Maybe the guy is insecure and can be petty but he's got brain, give him some credit.

That said, links to the fancams please? Let nobody say I can't partake in some mild shadenfreude.

R296 I agree. As with everything, I'm think Dai's desire to come back is probably complicated and rooted in different things e.g., a desire to get some attention, end his career on a more satisfying note, push his limits, show Shoma "the ropes," (eww, sorry), maybe fuck with Hanyu a little bit, who knows. I've seen the fancam and don't think it's that satisfying. Dai stands and claps politely but, as far as I could see, his face is not twisted with rage and he's not gesturing for Hanyu to suck anything, so too bad for us!

I'm the one sharing info on Takahashi and his fans and while the timing of his announcement was deliberate and petty, even I don't believe his comeback is about messing with Hanyu. If anything, it's going to hurt Uno and the younger skaters. Takahashi hasn't been satisfied with his post skating career and I think he wants to return to what he loves doing most. I don't think he would return if he didn't believe he has a chance at medaling at nationals. I just can't tell if he's being overconfident or has been training longer than he's let on.

Misha Ge is doing choreo for the Chinese ice dance couple Wang/Wang. “I Put a Spell on You” for SP and sounds like “Life is Beautiful” for FS.

r299 For a guy who can rock out to BTS, you'd think he'd create something more original than "I Put a Spell on You". That said, some of his choreos can be really good, we'll see.

R299 Wang/Wang are Pairs if they are the W/W we were used to see (they skipped last season because of some injury and I think they have been left out of the National team announced last week). The "I put a spell on you" as Short suggests they are Pairs rather than Ice Dance (because ice dancers have Tango as pattern for the Short this season and I can't see a Tango on I put a spell on you)

Look what fans have dug out. Dai on a dancing show. I liked his skating when he competed, but if he turned it up a notch and skated approximately like this, he can be as petty as he wants. Gimme some of that.

Sorry - you're right R301. I get ice dance and pairs mixed up.

R302 lol. That video was hot. I just don't care for Dai. Probably because of his pettiness and probably because I am a big Fanyu.

I'm quite sure Dai's world doesn't revolve around fucking Hanyu like it does for Hanyu's crazy fans. Welcome back beautiful man.

r302 didn't he also do some dance show with Charlie and Meryl? I've been looking for it. Did he do a lot of these? His dancing is not as good as the pros but it's hot and he could get there.

Dai just seems lost the last few years. I agree with r298 , outside of the timing of the announcement and the general avoidance of talking about each other, I doubt Hanyu has anything at to do with this. I guess you could argue that had Hanyu and Dai been more receptive with each other when Dai was doing TV work that maybe Dai would have been more successful and more satisfied with that work, but we don't know who instigated that and it's seeming like it's on both sides. It seems logical that Dai would look for closure somewhere in his life since nothing has worked so far since he retired.

And I doubt he's holding back the promising youngsters as well. He has no shot of beating Uno either. He's battling Tanaka, who isn't a real world medal threat anyway, and Tomono, who I don't think will ever get past dark horse category. Even if he does, he still needs a couple years to get there and Dai will probably re-retire by then. I would hope Dai is being realistic about his chances. If this is about getting closure, I think having too high of expectations will just create a bigger void.

r299 I like Misha's skating and what he did for Tomono. One of the commentators mentioned that there were some composition problems for competition with Misha's program though. Looks like his fame whoring is working so I can't really blame him for doing what he needs to do to get his foot in the door.

R305. Crazy Hanyu fans? What about the crazy Dai fans? They are out of their minds on borderline dangerous! I don't blame some Hanyu fans being concerned.

Do all skaters warm up like this? Check out 00:00 - 01:25 ... I'm sure Dai and Hanyu could figure out SOME way to work out their differences ...

and the hip roll from :10-:14

r310. Warming up is an individual matter, I guess as many competitors as many warm-up techniques. I heard about people who include meditation.

r311. Poor Tanaka and Satoko, trying to keep up with Hanyu and Oda.

This clip and some that were brought over with Hanyu in the group intros/finales in shows indicate that Hanyu has what it takes to be a good dancer. Maybe not quite the "I touch myself" type like Dai (excuse me while I wipe drool off my face) but he definitely has the moves. But it never comes across in competitive skating, and I wonder why? Does he not think it's appropriate? Does he need to be relaxed enough which is impossible in competition? Simply the matter of music? I think on the closest he got was the Parisian Walkways.

Not to pick on him or anything, but what does a skater like Tanaka do post-skating? He's nearing retirement age for male skaters at this point. Hasn't had a lot of success, likely not going to. Does he have to get a company job somewhere or are there opportunities for skaters, like in dance shows or something else where he can make a decent living? Also, is he gay? I've seen Shoma sitting on his lap in a few clips.

R312 I think Hanyu might find it hard to relax in competitions. I believe he can dance and dance well. I would love to see him relax more this season and show us something different. More himself.

There's an Instagram account called team_orser, run by a Russian, that sure seems to have a lot of vaguely insider type photos. Now it could be just a person who stays online hunting all these things down - in fact it just claims to be a "fan page"... but anyway, they recently did one of those question and answer sessions that have become popular on Instagram, and whoever it is thinks that Yuzuru, Evgenia and Jason will all be at Autumn Classic International, September 20-22.

They also posted the official looking announcement that ISU Junior Grand Prix, Aug 22-25, Bratislava, Slovakia, would have Stephen Gogolev (and some other names, maybe from Orser’s rink?: singles: Aurora Cotop; pairs: Patricia Andrew/Paxton Fletcher; and ice dance: Ellie Fisher/Simon-Pierre Malette-Paquette.

Considering Evgenia's heavy involvement in social media, I just wondered if maybe they have her as a source. They still have the pictures the little red-headed girl took down from her Instagram with Yuzuru, Brian, and Evgenia (the one that had a pixelated background with Yuzuru, Conrad, and Junhwan.)

If this is a recent photo from that account, I'm concerned about how extremely thin Yuzuru looks - more than I've ever seen before. (I have a wild guess that his ankle is still a problem and he's intentionally lost weight so as to lessen the impact on that ankle as he regains his jumps and maybe tries to work on the 4A).

r315. Skate Canada has published assignments for their skaters, that's why it's known which JGP Stephen got. No insider knowledge needed for this one.

[quote]I've felt Misha had the hots for Yuzu ever since I watched him at the Autumn Classic a few years ago.

[quote]Also makes one wonder about the kind of reach an agency has -- can they force an athlete to stay in the closet (apparently what Misha's agency or federation did? or told him to butch it up?) or do commercials, or do ice shows, etc.?

There's been speculation that Misha's gay? What is his agency? Is Uzbek Fed influential enough or cares enough to force someone to stay in the closet?

R315. I really hope that's an old photo. I agree he looks awfully thin. Is it even healthy for these athletes to get so thin? I would say no. I'm also in agreement that his ankle isn't completely healed. He may not ever be able to do the 4A if he can't get that ankle healed.

R315 R318 it's an old photo.

Thank god, R319, but he also looks horribly thin in the recent photos with the little girls. In the non-redheaded one his waist looks as small as hers and she's about 5 years old.

This one:

Well, now that I look at it, she's not 5. 10 or 12?

R318, someone at an ice show said that as he left the ice after his solo, he reached down and grabbed his ankle. Now he does stuff like that – but typically for a reason – like “thanks for getting me through that” instead of necessarily grabbing it in pain. But still, if it's well, why would he be doing that?

R321 he does look pretty thin. I thought he looked really thin at his ice show and faoi too. He may be going through a lot personally that we don't know about. I know he loves skating and lives for it but his health is more important.

R323. I feel he is not 100 percent. Did he even give himself the right amount of time to heal? I think he started jumping before he should have. That may be why he is not healed yet.

r313 He's majoring in health and life sciences. He'll probably become an employee of some related company. I don't think he's popular enough to make a living in the field. Most of the men become regular salarymen. Athletes who compete for corporate clubs become full-time employees of the company when they retire, like Kozuka withd Toyota. Tanaka skates for his university but that was one of the worst hit areas during the recent flood. Many people have lost their homes and lives. His home and family are also there so he might be dealing with matters more important than skating. I hope he at least beats Vincent Zhou for making the flood all about himself and his feelings. I don't know if his family relocated but Takahashi is also originally from Kurashiki. I hope he's the final Japanese skater at NHK and teaches Zhou a lesson, that shouldn't be too difficult.

R315 Team Orser has been strategic in what they repost and what they upload and don't attribute to create the illusion that they're on the inside. I think they're actually a Hanyu -Medvedeva shipping insta judging by their older history. There was a popular shipping IG run by a Russian fan that recently got in trouble for taking and using Japanese fan photos without permission. I think it might be the same person.

Ah thanks, R326. Glad for the warning. Wonder if Orser can get it taken down - or whoever got the redheaded German girl to delete all those pictures of TCC skaters on her Instagram. Maybe cell phones should be collected at the entrance - I read somewhere people had to go through a front desk to get admission - maybe true at all rinks but especially important at this one!

R325 It's good to know that some of the Japanese skaters have a place to go to after they retire. I read an article recently about how Jeremy Abbott's family had to refinance their family home several times and make sundry personal and financial sacrifices just so he could skate. Very few skaters make a fortune off figure skating (well, not FS itself, but the broadcasting careers, endorsement deals etc that result from it); the vast majority basically have to start over and find other ways to make a living when their careers end.

Vincent is a pompous ass, but his attitude doesn't surprise me. Remember, he comes from Silicon Valley, land of Elon Musk who recently made a show of building a submarine to rescue the Thai cave boys, and then when they were rescued no thanks to him, threw a shitfit on twitter and called the guy who actually helped rescue them a "pedo," because people made fun of his little sub and called it a pr stunt. To these guys, most things happening in the world are interesting to them only insofar as 1) they could make money off it or 2) it makes them feel good about how they're changing the world with their vision and genius. I know I'm overstating Vincent's idiocy because he is 17 after all, but if it's the environment in which he grew up, I'm not surprised he's turning out to be a little right wing turd. Hope he keeps it up because I hate his skating too.

Boyang and his gold blades. I'm not liking them too much lol

Definitely tacky. Not as tacky as evgenia's bedazzled skates though

I know this is old. It's new to me though. I find yuzuru's English adorable! It's funny how his voice sounds different in English than when he speaks Japanese.

R330 evgenia's skates are God.awful. if anyone hasn't seen them yet I provided a link to her instagram

R331 Then you might be interested in this video. Personally, I'd like to know why Don/John is a fucking slutbag. Surely someone on DL can tell us.

Med's new skates are a tacky distraction. Why does Edea have all those cutouts on their boots? It makes it look like something is wrong with them.

So it was interesting to hear the sordid details about Kazuka's and Mao Asada's sleazy fathers. The skaters themselves seem to have a squeaky clean, positive image though. Maybe that's why Mao and Mai Asada are not married. Aren't they considered old by Japanese standards for not being married? Somebody here must have a lot of inside information on the Japanese skating world. What did the person from the Japanese Skating Federation do to Takahashi, make a pass at him?

Has it been determined that the father of Miki Ando's daughter is a married Japanese businessman? I wonder what involvement he has in the child's life. Poor Miki. Now that Javier has dumped her, she probably doesn't have many options. He posted a tacky picture of himself and his girlfriend in a hot tub on Instagram recently. Rumor has it that Morosov and his teen wife split already, so maybe he's an option again.

What's going on with Takahito Mura, posting about feeling lonely and needing time to sort out his thoughts. Did he get divorced? Half the time he's not wearing his wedding ring. There was a gay pride convention in Tokyo a few months ago and one of his sponsors, a gay man who has a clothing co., showed a picture of him getting clothes at that hotel. Not that I think he's gay.

Oda seems fey but how many gay guys accidentally get their girlfriends pregnant, get married, then have 2 more kids. He is goofy looking but fun and still has a quad.

Jason Brown's not going to publicly come out because he needs to remain marketable. He's been learning Japanese to curry favor with the Japanese fangurls. They don't want to know if or that he's gay.

R334 the Miki and Javier story is somewhat new to me. I know he has a new girlfriend. Wasn't Miki pregnant when they were together? What made him decide to leave her for another woman?

Mao Asada is rich and famous and herself has an excellent reputation- I don't think her father's reputation has any bearing on her romantic prospects. I once talked to woman who had a Japanese daughter in law. She said that her daughter in law had had romance problems because of how independent she was (only child, no brothers, excellent education, well-travelled, good job) and was much better suited to western men. Maybe that's why Mao remains single? She's not well-suited to traditional Japanese relationship? Any Japanese people here to shed light on this?

Miki might be a similar case: she's been fending for herself for years, has a child to look after. Maybe male prospects are not her top priority. r335 I'd wager Miki and Javier split because their relationship was long-distance. How many people can carry on together if they rarely see each other? I've always thought their story was cute but wouldn't stand the trial of time, she had her life estanblished in Japan and it didn't look like Javi had any plans moving to Japan.

Average age of marriage is about 30 for men and women in Japan, and less people are getting married these days. Mao and Mai aren't spinsters by Japanese standards, but maybe by Russian standards. Mai is like her dad and riding her sisters coattails, trying very hard to stay famous. She had a huge boob job, new face, and was swimsuit/lingerie modeling. She was or is friends with benefits with the vocalist from One OK Rock. Everyone, including the general public, knows about Mao's parents but it hasn't affected her personal image. But she's so famous and has been held up as such a pure, heroic figure (more than Hanyu in terms of pureness and innocence) that I think men don't want to deal with that pressure. Mao also talks like she's five, which is kind of a turn off. The Japanese youth are like the youth in most western countries but I think Mao might have a more sexist view of gender roles given her family's background.

The father of Miki's daughter hasn't been revealed but she looks 100% Japanese and everyone is still convinced it's a married man due to the secrecy. Miki always has a lot of drama. I haven't heard about Mura's troubles but doubt he's gay.

Jason's Japanese fans are old women. No one thinks he's handsome. It's his cheerfulness and skating that people like. And most think he's gay. But a lot of people also think he has trouble reading social cues and find his obsession with Japanese kind of annoying. Someone should tell him he's been writing Yuzuru's name incorrectly all of these years.

R334 Re Takahashi and Seiko Hashimoto, the president of JSF, there are pictures of her trying to kiss him at a dance party during Sochi. You can google it; it's the kind of kiss you'd expect from a drunk old lady trying to force herself on a repulsed gay man.

Javi's SNS posts with his girlfriends are always slightly cringey, but maybe he just wears his heart on his sleeve. It seems like he and Miki broke up on bad terms. He said in a Spanish interview recently that he doesn't have anything to do with either Morozov or Miki anymore, which seemed harsh with respect to Miki given that he had been dating her up until early 2017.

R334 She's still held up as an example of sexual and power harassment in Japan.

As far as I know, Miki wasn't with Javi while she was pregnant. She was living with a Japanese skater, Yasuhiro? Nanri, who wasn't/isn't the kid's father. How could Miki and Javi really communicate anyway? Neither of them speaks English fluently. Well, somehow it worked out for Chen Lu and Denis Petrov. They have 2 kids and coach in China.

That older lady kissing Daisuke is disgusting. There's a YouTube video from when he was on Love on the Floor. The clueless reporter asks him if he's in love, asks about Cheryl Burke, his dance coach, and makes them do romantic poses together. Awkward!

R340 that is disgusting! Both of them.

Is it true the jsf doesn't really care about Hanyu? I hear some say they don't. If so why? Sorry if this was asked before. I'm new here wanting some dirt and gossip.

R342 It might be overstating it a bit to say that JSF doesn't care about Hanyu, but he's certainly not their favorite. As I understand it, it's a regional issue. The most powerful figure skating faction in Japan is from Nagoya (where Mao, Midori and Shoma are from) while Sendai (where Hanyu and Shizuka Arakawa are from) has no political power. I'm sure they'd prefer if one of their own were on top, and that's one of the reasons why Shoma has so much support from JSF. But I think they care about Hanyu insofar as he is their cash cow and their star, so they're not going to actively sabotage him. I read somewhere that JSF gets an insane percentage of skaters' earnings. I'm sure Hanyu makes a lot of money from commercials and such (a Japanese TV show did a segment on this recently and said he makes over a million dollars per commercial), but it's not clear how much of it he gets to keep.

Wasn't there also an article during Sochi about how Seiko Hashimoto berated Hanyu after his short and told him that even though he did well in the short, he better not fuck up the free?

r342 That's an exaggeration, I think. Some Hanyu fans are frustrated that JSF seems to show more support for Shoma Uno. One of the reasons might be that for a long time Hanyu talked about retireing after Pyeongchang and JSF needed another skating star, so they put their weight behind Shoma. Hanyu also doesn't actually need as much propping up, his reputation on international stage is solid and he's just that good so again, they focus on Shoma. But at the same time, when there was a choice between their Japanese Champion and Hanyu for NHK Trophy (in 2016 and 2017) they picked Hanyu both times. They know who sells those astronomically-expensive tickets. Another reason for more Shoma support might be that Shoma Uno comes from influential training center in Nagoya whereas Hanyu, training in Canada, is far removed from Japanese "politicking", as in has nobody who would back him up. When GPF 2017 was planned in Nagoya, there were some weird restrictions concerning banners and throwing presents on ice - most interpreted it as trying to curb the fan enthusiasm for Hanyu and prop the homeboy Shoma up, but it backfired when Hanyu tore his tendons and couldn't even go to the GPF. Lots of fans feel that Hanyu was underscored in 2017 Worlds mostly due to skating first in the group, but if the JSF had showed more push that score could have been higher.

I wonder, does JFS get the cut from skating shows? If so, there might be another reason why JSF might show him less support than they could: after the disastrous 2014/15 season Hanyu never again committed himself to a large number of shows. He seems to have quite a bit of autonomy, and maybe the fact that he isn't very controllable makes JSF make less effort. [ /speculation]

R343 During a press conference after Hanyu got the gold, she said he congratulated him after his SP and told him (nicely) to repeat his good performance the next day. Hanyu laughed and made a face like that wasn't what happened, so she asked him to remind her what she actually said. He refused to respond but what she had actually told him was "You know what's going to happen if you don't continue your streak tomorrow!"

You can tell Hanyu isn't their favorite by how Uno and his brother has been promoted these last two years. That reminds me that Takahashi 's brother was arrested for stealing a car, hit and run, and robbery some years ago. He had six offenses previously. It was reported in the local news but they didn't mention he was Takahashi's brother at the time. I think there are still a couple of other figures skaters with troubled family members but their agencies and the federation have done a good job of keeping things quiet.

R345 Bless you, you have the best Japanese FS gossip. Some of your posts belong on the DL thread "Deep Dark Family Secrets."

r345. How is Uno's brother a part of this? What does he do?

R343 and R344 thank you! I agree Hanyu is the cash cow. I also believed that the federation favored uno over Hanyu. I now see why that may be it.

Does anyone think after hanyu retires he'll do ice shows only in Japan? Are there any other places that do ice shows? He is such a huge star internationally I was just curious.

Rr346 Thanks. I don't think I've posted any real secrets yet. Most of it made the news a while ago but never made it outside Japan or maybe that kind of news is frowned upon in places like GS and FSU. I have a little Hanyu news but not that exciting. He was stressing out about people taking photos of him in private according to a recent article in AERA. I haven't seen the full article yet.

347 That's a very good question. The Fed and USM have been pairing Uno with his brother for media appearances since 2016, except Uno's 16-year old brother is not a skater. At first, they promoted him as Uno's "interpreter" and he somehow got permission to accompany Shoma around the world. Then he was described as a "model" after he suddenly appeared in a magazine or two. He's not much taller than his brother and not what you would describe as modelesque. Anyway, he's always on TV with Shoma and at promotional events as a guest, not staff. It's obvious he wants a career in showbuisiness but it's strange how much the fed and USM are helping him when he doesn't even skate. Uno's fans are even sick of him. I want to know how he's allowed to miss so much school.

r349. Wow, that's really peculiar. If he's a client of USM, then they'd naturally want to put him out there but it's strange that JSF plays along. Unless it's no skin off their nose, so if Shoma wants it, they don't much care.

R349 Is the AERA thing separate from the Dai/Hanyu article that has people up in arms, or separate from it? Promoting Shoma's brother as some sort of model? The talent agencies in Japan have so much control they think they can manipulate our eyeballs as well? I thought they were just parading him around as an aspie translator for Shoma.

R350 Only Shoma is signed with USM. They only take athletes. The brother Itsuki is represented by Gran Models but all of his appearances (and probably all of those weird articles about how hot he is that keep popping up) are through Shoma and USM. I think the fed thought Uno would sell better with his more social and talkative brother. Ironically, Uno's quiet personality and bizarre comments are what make him popular.

R351 Have to go but is the article you're talking about written by the lady with the glasses? If it is, she's a Takahashi stan and there's a funny story about her next time.

R349 if you get to read the article please let us know what it all said. I wonder why Hanyu was stressing? Was he worried they might go public? I know he values his privacy.

I guess you're our source for Japanese news. : )

I'm interested in the article about Yuzuru being worried about pictures too. He's made at least two with little girls visiting TCC since he got back to Canada, so it must not be too serious. If it's because of people distorting them to make insulting weibo posts, for example, well, there are thousands of his pictures on the internet that could be photoshopped, but anyway, I can see why he'd get tired of being interrupted a lot to take endless photos with strangers.

I also read, on this thread I think, that Ghislain Briand, the TCC jump coach, was leaving Orser and that it was reported on a skating messageboard but I can't find it! Dave Lease made fun of how Ghislain was rubbing his hands all over Yuzuru - not in a sexual way but because he wanted to associate himself with him to promote himself. I wonder, if like Misha, the Japanese fed has hired him? (except Misha is now working in China, either instead of Japan or in addition to.) He's gonna have a hard time not being in the limelight in his first non-skating season. Wonder what devilment he'll get into...)

Someone just mentioned the Ghislain thing in passing on the TCC thread in Goldenskate. I think it might have just been how they interpreted something they saw on TSL or something rather than a real report.

Thanks to the person answering all the questions about the Japanese stories and I hope you don't mind a few more.

When Dai started being more open about being gay, did he lose fans? Were people surprised by it and what was the general reaction? What about when Fumie Suguri came out as bi?

We in NA, have an image of the Japanese as being fairly conservative. If Hanyu isn't strange by Japanese standards, then why do you think that we don't see any of the other Japanese more like him? Conforming to Western standards?

If the Japanese are as anti-gay as they're portrayed, then why are Johnny Weir and other well know gay skaters so accepted? Do the Japanese fans just have different standards for "their own"? How big of a scandal do you think it would be if a popular skater actually came out?

R355 good questions! From what I understand they love Johnny in Japan. So I don't think they are anti gay. I do not think Hanyu would lose fans if he came out. I could be wrong. Maybe some of the fans already suspect he is? I am the one that believes 90 percent he is gay. In regards to Dai I don't think he lost fans. Again I could be wrong. We have to wait for the other poster to answer the questions.

Fumie Suguri didn't come out until way after her competitive days ended... but wait, didn't she keep competing at regionals til she was past age 30? Kind of pathetic, like her Instagram photos where she tries too hard to look sexy, showing leg and cleavage. I wonder how she makes a living now.

Daisuke T. had some exciting programs but he doesn't look attractive to me, sort of frog like with short legs. He admits his spins sucked too. So what's he going to bring to competitions after only getting older?

I saw some recent pics of Mai, and could her fake giant boobs look even more out of place on her stick thin frame?! How's she going to look in her skating costumes? She is pretty and didn't need those porno star wannabe implants. Mao on the other hand, along with that Japanese male pair skater (not sure if it's the guy who shows lots of pics of his ass), has a slight cross eye. You'd think they would've gotten that problem fixed as children.

R352 The article I'm thinking of comparing Hanyu/Dai was written by the lady with the glasses. Give us the dirt! You take off leaving us with pictures of the tantalizing Itsuki Uno with his come-hither poses and fuck-me sweats. Unfair!

R354 Dave Lease is an ass and rarely has actual insider info. People seem to think his TCC gossip is slightly more reliable because he knows Doug Haw, one of Brian's close friends. However, I doubt that if there are issues between Brian and Ghislain, that Brian would send his minions to TSL for...what exactly? He and Ghislain go back a long way and Brian appears to be an adult so I don't see him throwing a fit over some perception that Ghislain is moving in on his star pupil. David Wilson said that even at the height of the whole Yuna mess, when Yuna's mom dumped Brian and asked David to be her coach, that Brian was ever unprofessional towards him or made him feel like he had to choose sides.

Thats interesting R358! I'm so dense I didn't even take Lease's comments as meaning Ghislain was trying to do anything other than take some of the credit for Yuzuru's success - maybe jealous of the limelight that Brian and Tracy gets when it comes to interviews and mentions when it comes to Yuzuru. Well, I don't know how to explain it but I didn't think of it the way you said - but I'm sure you're right and Dave had some sort of sinister intention.

I remember him just flat out saying that Yuzuru hated Shoma. Has he never watched any footage of those two interacting? or the many pictures of them being affectionate with each other?? Yuzuru's like a mother with Shoma (not the only one, oddly - people just can't keep their hands off him - but like Yuzu said, he is cute, like a puppy).

R359 No really, your guess is as good as mine and we're all just speculating when it comes to TSL's intentions. I don't even know exactly what Dave Lease said about Ghislain - just what you and other posters here have reported. I think my point is just that he likes to throw little tidbits out there - like Hanyu hating Shoma, Ghislain, Brian favoring Javi - because he likes to stir things up and not because he has actual info (although occasionally he does). I wouldn't call it sinister, but TSL should be taken for what it is - catty, periodically entertaining (when they have good guests), but not exactly reliable.

Good advice R360 and I can't help it but I just love watching Dave Lease, even knowing about his crap. Jonathan annoys me - makes me nervous or something because he has a manic way of speaking and goes off on tangents I'm not interested in. I do admit he seems like the nicer guy, though.

Anyway, I've been searching for Mai's new boobs! Can't wait to see them :) I really like some of her (new?) hairstyles with bangs. I think it helps because her face is so long. Maybe the boobs will likewise draw focus. She's one of the last people I'd ever expect to get implants, I will say that! Hope she has a good season. I would assume the Japanese ladies (and others) are a bit intimidated by Rika Kihira's 3A, though maybe Wakaba's will come through as well. I hope the girls are ready to rumble!! Getting a little sick of the ultrafocus on only the men and their quads. (apparently Rika's working on a quad toe too!)

Keep shaking things up, Trusova. Maybe someday one of the women will have the right body type and be able to keep a quad into her mid 20s. Hell, Surya Bonaly was working on them pretty hard way back when - and she wasn't a reed thin teen, albeit she never quite made it, but it looked almost within reach for her.

R361, I think you're confusing Mai Asada (big fake boobs) with Mai Mihara (bangs, still competing).

Oh you're right - I never even heard of Mai Asada ahem..

[quote]Dave Lease made fun of how Ghislain was rubbing his hands all over Yuzuru - not in a sexual way but because he wanted to associate himself with him to promote himself.

Why can't some people imagine other reasons than self-promotion? Everything points to the fact that Ghislain was the one who worked with Hanyu the most during his recovery - he was interviewed by Japanese TV even where he talked about their approach to training - and he was close to Hanyu even before that. He seems like an affectionate person and Hanyu does seem to welcome physical displays of affection from people he considers friends. Is it so unfathomable that Ghislain might be touching him in a comforting or congratulatory manner? Ghislain played a part in Hanyu's success, so they both may feel like a job well done.

Btw by this photo, Hanyu went into a meltdown mode not when Javier entered the green room, but in the K&C right after the cameras stopped focusing on him. It was up to Ghislain to be there for him, so maybe the guy simply cares.

r354 In which episode did David make fun of Ghislain? I'd like to watch it and see if it was as mean as it sounds.

Shoma's new programs for next season are Stairway to Heaven (SP) and Moonlight Sonata (FS).

I saw it - but I'm not sure. I think the one right after the Pyeongchang Olympics. It was just Dave's usual innuendo, raised eyebrow sort of comment.

I agree Ghislain has been a great support to Yuzuru - it was fun to watch him on the sidelines at Pyeonchang getting excited when Yuzuru landed his jumps (and in the kiss and cry because Orser had to immediately go to Javier after Yuzuru's free skate.) I sure hope he's still at the cricket club!

Has Javi always dressed like this off ice?

R366 The most significant part of Shoma's announcement to me was that it was accompanied by a picture of my new favorite fame-adjacent sibling. He taunts us with just a view of his backside, daring us to ask for more. Okay, Itsuki, I surrender, more please!

I think Hanyu is closer to Ghislain than he is to Orser.

R349 There are two different AERA articles. The one I was talking about is in the 7/23 issue. No one has posted the full article yet and I don’t know if it’s worth buying, but it said he was being stalked for photos. After he went back to Japan following the Olympics, the paparazzi photographed him at his hotel and the hospital, so it could be about paparazzi. He was also reportedly stalked by some people when he was visiting his home in Sendai in March.

The other AERA article posted on 7/9 was online only and written by Makiko Yabe, the lady with the glasses. She was shading Hanyu and going on and on about how sexy, handsome, and kind Takahashi is, did I mention how sexy he is? and how he’s the greatest skater in the world unlike Hanyu. (It’s a lot more embarrassing and creepy than I’ve described.) She also went on about how Kozuka praised Takahashi on a TV show in June and is very knowledgeable and the best commentator. Well, the article had very strategic timing because it was published the day after Kozuka compared Hanyu to the Japan vs Poland World Cup game and made those other comments. It just so happens that four years ago after Sochi, Yabe also wrote a very similar article whining about how Plushenko and Lysacek had praised Hanyu when Takahashi is so much sexier, you know, so sexy, and better. She used to write for a weekly called Shukan Asahi and the former editor of Shukan Asahi now runs J-Cast, an internet news site that is notorious for targeting Hanyu.

R355 Male figure skaters have the gay image in Japan as well, so a figure skater coming out would be less shocking than an athlete from a different sport coming out. People have suspected Takahashi is gay from the start, so it wasn’t surprising to the public or his casual fans when he and the media started hinting about his homosexuality. His uber fans refused to believe it and I think they're still in denial.

I don’t think anyone cared about Suguri and her “coming out” has been mischaracterized. She used her sexuality as a talking point to get on a variety show. She said was attracted to women but had never dated a girl before, so the show set her up with a lesbian. Nothing came of it and she still hasn’t dated a woman years later. She was known to frequent host clubs back then where she lost most of her money, so I think she was financially desperate and exaggerated her bi-curiosity (if it existed) for job opportunities. She also tried her hand at gravure modeling. It was rumored she was one of the people caught on tape doing cocaine with Hiroki Narimiya, the gay actor who escaped to Thailand after a tabloid published photos and audio of his cocaine binge. She returned to her hometown and is a coach now.

The theory from the other thread that foreign skaters are hiding in the closet for the Japanese is garbage. Johnny is loved because he was brave enough to be himself despite that it hurt his scores and relationships with western federations. If he wasn’t gay and flamboyant, he might not have become as popular as he is in Japan. Hanyu is in a completely different category, including from the other Japanese skaters because he’s more of a cultural figure now. It would be a very big deal if he came out, but some already suspect he’s gay and I doubt his fans would leave him. What would likely happen is that his homosexuality would become his entire identity and whenever he’s talked about, his sexuality would be brought up. The media would try to make him into a gay personality and he would constantly be asked to give his “gay” perspective. The tabloids would spin all of his relationships with male skaters he admires into something sinister and everything he does would be attributed to his gayness. The idea that everything he does or says is a cover for his homosexuality is also silly, especially when he’s always making girly gestures at the camera and proudly wearing ridiculous costumes.

Hanyu’s body type and flexibility are very rare in Japan, so I think that’s why you haven’t seen other Japanese skaters like him yet. I say yet because the younger generations are more slim and long-legged than their parents. Mao’s body was also seen as an anomaly as Japanese men and women usually have long torsos and thick, short legs. You might want to look into Yamato Tamura who’s Satoko’s coach now. He’s more masculine on ice, but he’s a flamboyant and interesting character who came before Hanyu and Takahashi.

Thanks for the perspective, r371! So basically, if Hanyu were gay, the best course of action for him would be to do what Takahashi does? Go on with his life after he retires from competition, but without public admission? It's kinda sad, tbh, because it sounds like Japan could use some openly gay high-profile icons.

Isn't AERA rather supportive of Hanyu though? Or do they simply not mind some controversy, print whatever will sell?

On the stalker/paparazzi note: hey, maybe it will make Hanyu stay in competition until Beijing, just so that he has an excuse to spend 2/3 of a year abroad.

I really appreciate your insights R371. It's easy to get it wrong when you don't understand a person's standing in their home country - or any possible cultural differences.

And that makes me feel sad, R370. This coming season, with Takahashi competing again, and who knows how it will go for Hanyu - well, it'll definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I hadn't thought about that R372. The decompression/transition from skating to retirement seems to be difficult for so many people - and to come from the dizzying heights that Hanyu reached - well, I don't know if that makes it better or worse. It seems like it would open many more doors - but other hand, it's hard to imagine he'll be let alone to start the next phase of his life, since he's such a cultural icon. I guess it could kind of restrict him, at least for a while, but even someone upthread said that even Mao's mega-fame is fading a bit - you'd think it would get easier with time for Hanyu but... well, sounds tricky.

He's talked about doing something similar to Plushenko - starting a school with famed great coaches - but that would threaten the skating powers that already be in Japan, I would think, unless it's somehow done in conjunction with them?? Oh I don't know. Good thing Hanyu seems to be very inteligent - I think he's going to need careful thought and planning to navigate his future, considering all the complications.

R372 There are openly gay icons, but it's like their sexuality overshadows everything else, kind of like how Adam Rippon has been treated. The print version of AERA is supportive, but the online magazine isn't. They probably have different teams running things.

R370 R371 Your posts are very informative and even-handed. Thank you. Why do you think Hanyu is closer to Ghislain than Brian? They have warm interactions but I haven't seen anything noteworthy describing their relationship. It doesn't look like if he's gay that Hanyu will ever come out. I don't blame him. Even Dick Button has never come out publicly and I think if he did, people would start to talk about his skating career and legacy through that lens. I don't even see Hanyu being out privately. He seems way too paranoid about stalkers and people selling him out to be able to venture outside of his trusted circle.

I'm thinking about the. Hotel and hospital photos. I know some hanyu antis had posted a lot of photos that looked like he was at a hotel and hospital. They kept writing Hanyu clinic. Wonder of antis were stalking him.

If antis were stalking him.

R370 I definitely agree that Hanyu is closer to Ghislain than to Orser. Their relationship seems much more relaxed. Adam Rippon was also very fond of Ghislain and openly preferred him to Orser.

When Yuzu first skated to Seimei, Brian said in an interview that he didn't understand the program. He's also said on more than one occasion that Yuzu remains a mystery to him. I wonder if he's ever made any serious attempt to really get to know him. The comment he made to Hersh about not directly asking him about bringing Jin to TCC seemed odd to me. Sharing your coach with a direct competitor is kind of a big deal. At least it would be for me. Can you imagine Orser and Boitano training together?

After Adam Rippon left Orser, he actually chose to stay at TCC and his primary coach was Ghislain. There were some questions as to whether it would be awkward for Adam to continue to skate there, and he left for Michigan after a few months, so I guess they couldn't make it work. Did Brian really say that about Seimei? I thought he said that about Hope & Legacy. Seriously, Yuna must have left him so scarred that he never wanted to be close to another Asian again.

r378. Brian also said, I don't remember if it was in the same interview or not, that Hanyu generally doesn't say "no", no matter what he thinks. (It's also my understanding that it's a major cultural difference: it's up to the individual to adapt, and not try to have the environment adapt to the individual.) From the context, I understood, that Brian thought that asking him whether he minded Boyang training at TCC was useles and Brian was better served reading non-verbal clues from Hanyu.

I think Orser knows Hanyu pretty well, no matter what he says. "He's a mystery", I think applies more to "getting" him character-wise but I think Orser knows Hanyu just about as well as Hanyu's other coaches know him. About who Hanyu's closer to, that's really hard to say but it might be reasonable that Hanyu's more relaxed with Ghislain - Orser's probably more of an authority figure to Hanyu than Ghislain. But then again, it's not like Hanyu's tense with Orser or anything. They seem to have good rapport.

There seems to be genuine warmth between him and Tracy - and Yuzuru has said she sensed he was having a lot of anxiety at Worlds 2017 and helped him, after he was so far behind after the short (hope I've got the competition right) - but other times as well. I'm not saying he doesn't like Brian, but people are just different - maybe he's a bit colder than the other two, and with language barriers, you need more intuition about what's going on with someone.

Brian has said he's been shocked at some of the things Yuzuru has said at press conferences that he knew nothing about. And if it was just an Asian thing - well, there was a problem with Rippon too, when there wasn't as much with Ghislain.

Just wanted to add: Brian seems actually one of the warmest coaches up there in K&C? And I think he's the warmest with Yuzuru and Javier, his longest-standing students.

I remember an interview with Brian where he said that he might retire as a coach after Beijing because coaching is extremely emotionally draining, he can't help but get emotionally invested, and he doesn't know how long he'd be able to carry on. At this point he's possibly most attached to Javier and Hanyu, even if he doesn't completely "get" Hanyu. What's more important is, I think, that Orser recognizes that lack of common brainwave and trusts Hanyu enough to let him do his thing. And it's also important that Hanyu trusts Orser enough to stick with him, after all they had their differences but they still didn't let those differences undo their working relationship.

r381 I'm curious, did Brian say which things by Yuzu shocked him? I guess their relationship is focused on training and they don't discuss private matters much.

From what I read around the forums, the reason for the split between Adam and Brian was the training methods. Brian's apparently big on off-ice training, which Adam was not exactly keen on. Incidentally, it was reportedly also the reason for the split with Nam - or Nam's father. (And if I remember correctly, Hanyu also was reluctant and it took Orser a long time to convince him.)

That all said, I agree that Ghislain seems like a really warm and caring person. And David Lease can be an asshole with just one throwaway sentence.

Brian can't win, really. FS fandom is crazy and people will find fault with him and pick apart the most innocuous things, so sometimes I think he plays dumb about Hanyu on purpose. He's dealt with two of the most intense fandoms in FS - Hanyu and Yuna. Below is an article about his split with Adam. Stay for the comments by the Yuna fan.

Rippon attributes his successful comeback to his work off the ice.

R371 I believe perhaps Hanyu is saying this is me guys. In the way he acts. The way he skates and what he wears on that ice Without saying the words I'm gay. Of course some of his fans will deny it. But I also believe many of his fans know or feel strongly he is and accept him. They will not stop beng his fans. He must know that.

I wonder how Dai and Hanyu are doing in Toronto? Are they hanging out together? LOL! I say no. : )

R382, about when Brian said he was surprised (or shocked or taken aback) by things Yuzuru would say in press conferences after skates - or in interviews - I don't remember any specific details about what he learned.

I do remember, either in the same interview or another one, Brian said that in the beginning, communication was difficult - that he had a Japanese interpreter "on speed dial." Also that Yuzuru woud say yes, as though he understood, when Brian was explaining something -- then Brian would ask Yuzuru to do a jump, using the new info, and Yuzuru would do an entirely different jump and Brian would realize he hadn't understood. He sort of joked, "I learned that 'yes' actually means 'no'"

Anyone know what happened to Dennis Ten? I just read Johnny weirs tweet that said he passed away. I am going to look online. How horrible!

He stabbed. This is tragic. I was never a fan of his but he had his whole life ahead of him. So young! I hope they get the people that did this.

Stabbed to death over some car mirrors....damn, what a waste...

What a damn senseless tragedy. I didn't really follow his career, but it seemed he bounced from coach to coach, country to country, fought through many injuries in order to continue skating, and in the end accomplished a lot. How devastating for his family, friends and fans.

Brian Orser post on instagram.

Denis was always enjoyable to watch and he is mourned by so many skaters. He should have won worlds 2013 over Patrick Chan. He brought attention to Kazhakstan and made friends with people so many countries. That was a classy message from Brian Orser about Denis.

R392 I guess this is indirect confirmation that Boyang isn't going to be part of team cricket.

Denis made stamps of some of the skaters for LINE last November.

R375 Some of Orser’s interviews imply there’s an emotional distance between them and I think Hanyu and Ghislain bonded this past year. Ghislain traveled with Hanyu to Japan for NHK where he was injured while Brian was recovering from surgery, and Ghislain and Tracy (who Hanyu’s credited for helping him get through the psychological hardships) primarily helped Hanyu prepare for the Olympics during the final weeks.

R376 The tabloids had different photos of Hanyu and his mom at a hotel, and the photo of Hanyu walking into the Tokyo hospital was taken by professional paparazzi. (There was a photo of Hanyu in a hospital waiting room a year or two ago. Is that what you were talking about? I think it was taken by someone who just happened to be there.) The paparazzi also followed him to all of his ice shows and tabloids followed him to Sendai when he took time off to see his family. I don’t think the stalkers were necessarily antis, although the antis were the ones who published the location of his home. He was also being stalked in Toronto by some non-Japanese fans, so he doesn’t have much privacy in Canada, either.

The online version of AERA posted excerpts from the article by Taisuke Goto from the 7/23 issue but about the photo-taking, it just says that the author heard Hanyu’s been stressed out that lately that people have taking photos of him even when he’s in a private space and during his personal time. I think it’s a combination of paparazzi stalking him and people trying to get photos of him for their SNS when he’s trying to go about his day.

In his latest video, Daisuke Murakami said his partner (word choice implies a girlfriend) of five years asked that they take a break from their relationship after he decided to retire. He was heartbroken although they are supposed to get back together at the end of the summer. They had been living together for four years and share a dog. He doesn’t know what to do and asking for advice. I wonder if this girlfriend is another skater.

R395 thank you. I had no idea who took the photos. I also have no idea if the photos were from a year or two ago. They may have been. I saw them posted by antis online and posting Hanyu Clinic. Hanyu can't even get privacy going to a hospital? That pretty sad.

R396 I didn't know Murakami is such a drama Queen closet case

Seriously, I didn't know Murakami was a drama queen or a closet case, but these youtube videos are something. Is he doing anything else post-retirement besides asking random strangers for relationship advice on youtube? Or is being a youtuber his plan now?

R395 Denis seemed to have a lot of interests, talents and a good sense of humor. What an absolutely shitty and random way for things to end for him.

Echo Cheng @echotpe Echo Cheng Retweeted NHKスポーツ

"Yuzu will compete at Autumn Classic SC on Sep 20-22, confirmed by JSF."

This tweet gives a tentative schedule for Hanyu. It has Japan Nationals too. Isn't takahashi going to that event? Could be interesting if they are both at that event.

I wonder what the odds are that both Hanyu and Takahashi appear at Japan Nationals. Yuzuru hasn't competed there since December 2015. According to Wikipedia on how a skater qualifies for Worlds:

"Member nations select their entries according to their own criteria. Some countries rely on the results of their national championships while others have more varied criteria, which may include success at certain international events or specific technical requirements."

You'd think the reigning Olympic gold medalist would have a leg up, especially when Japan is one of the few countries that will have three slots.

He's already missed Nationals twice. Unless he's got a really good reason like last year, there's likely to be a backlash if he misses it again, especially if Takahashi takes part. I don't think He will miss it, or that he wants to miss it.

I didn't realize it was such a big deal (Nationals.) I think I read that Max Kovtum won his Nationals but they sent Evgeni Plushenko as their only entry to the Olympics because he was the bigger "name." You'd think if they wanted Yuzuru so much, they'd have him at NHK but I guess they didn't want to hurt either his or Shoma's chances for the winner's big point haul.

If Hanyu and Takahashi are at Japan Nationals I am sure Hanyu will be staying away from Takahashi the best he can.

I see that the schedule doesn't include 4CC. I am sort of glad because I thought the prices for those tickets were ridiculous. Were they really banking on Hanyu going? If so that was a big mistake. I am thinking a lot of empty seats for that event and it's their own fault.

I think that assumed Hanyu schedule is somebody's best guess (other than the announced Autumn Classic, GP assignments, and presumed GP final and Worlds - and I guess Nationals.) R402 calls it a "tentative" schedule, but I don't think we even know that it's Yuzuru himself's "tentative schedule".

4CC is unfinished business, in a way, for Yuzuru, so I think it's possible he may want to do that one. He's said he wants to skate "a little bit longer" and his "only motivation" is the 4A (though I imagine that'll change quickly, when the season starts, if it hasn't already, when his competitive instinct kicks in.)

I also wonder if he didn't want to go to NHK because he's superstitious and that's where the ankle injury happened that nearly upended his career - plus he's won that already, three times.

I guess I don't want to think about an arena with warring factions of fanbases - Takahashi's vs Hanyu's, with lots of booing - or applauding mistakes. Ai yi yi. Even though Takahashi (oddly I thought) said it was his dream to be in practice sessions or 6 minute warmups with the current Olympics medalists, even though he doesn't think he has a chance to beat them. Just seems weird to me. In any case, I dread any comp that they're both in :(

and when I first read R402's conjecture about Nationals, I hate to admit it, but the first thought I had was how unlikely that both would make it there, healthy and uninjured (if past is prologue...) This sport is getting ridiculous for wrecking relatively young bodies sheesh.....

Is 4CC unfinished business for Yuzu or for some of his fans? It's the same with Skate Canada--some fans say he needs to do it again because he needs to finish first there just once. Apparently winning two OGMs is not sufficient for them; he needs to finish first at every major competition at least once.

LOL good point. I hope you're right and he couldn't care less, which wouldn't surprise me, given his "only motivation/4A" admission. He also said he 'finally' wanted to do everything his own way. That's enough right there - maybe it's all about producing the performances he wants to, and to hell with fretting about medals -- he really has "done it all" and then some. It's kind of weird to see him back, though many skaters struggle with that next step, post competing - it must be really really scary. It's all they've ever known, basically.

Are Hanyu antis this horrible? This one sounds like a mental case and needs mental help. I guess if you get addresses you must be pretty bad. I never saw anything like this till today. My jaw dropped.

r408. I think this time JSF really couldn't put Hanyu over Shoma for NHK, even if they wanted to. Shoma was seeded and Hanyu was not, if they pushed out their own seeded national champion, worlds silver medallist and Olympic silver medallist somewhere else, there'd be backlash too. So they had to take on Shoma - and they didn't want to take on Hanyu in that case so that their two top skaters wouldn't stand in each other's way. Or perhaps it was Hanyu's preference to go somewhere else and not go up against Shoma.

r411 what does the caption say? (I'm not sure how to interpret Google translate)

r408 Uno chose NHK, so it wasn't an option. Hanyu's fans will also travel internationally whereas Uno's are less willing to go overseas, so it makes more sense to have Uno at NHK and Hanyu abroad from a financial standpoint. Finland also demanded the Olympic champions in exchange for hosting CoC, although he probably would have chosen Finland anyway. I wonder how the host change affected everyone else. Hanyu was sick and injured the past two nationals. He wouldn't have been allowed to skip the competition otherwise. Nationals is going to be crazy. With Takahashi back, you have a bloodbath for third but there 's also the question of Uno's overscoring. Speaking of Denis, he was very angry at the judges for not calling Uno's underrotations at the GPF last year and demanded they implement AI so the judges can't be bribed.

R412 That's just another Takahashi uber. Sadly, these types of tweets and comments blaming Hanyu were all over the internet as soon as Denis' death was announced. Those same crazy fans were still spreading the false rumour that Hanyu wasn't in Sendai during the earthquake while he was having his People's Honor Award ceremony. It's just a little of what he deals with, but it's despicable how they are exploiting Denis.

R413 That's a Takahashi fan twitter devoted to bashing Hanyu and his fans. The tweet is saying that the robbery and murder was staged and Hanyu is responsible for Denis dying.

Interesting R414, Denis Ten wasn't even at the Grand Prix final with Uno. And are the judges bribed?

That's so scary, about the Takahashi ubers. I hope Hanyu can afford bodyguards - for the rest of his life, I guess. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anything like this before. There's so much I didn't understand before - about the way he's chosen to live. People stalking him just to take photos must scare him, considering the amount of hate posted about him. I know it would scare me. So sad. (and in that picture, they both look like they're smiling!)

Well, I meant Ten looks like he's joking and Hanyu looks like he's smiling.

r417 I think it's just a restless joke, not a real accusation. Just, really, really restless. Tbh, I think people who make this sort of jokes are not right in the head.

R418 The photo they used was a joke between Denis and Hanyu but the caption is not a joke. Go through the rest of the twitter. They're saying there's no evidence of the robbery and murder and it's a conspiracy. They're also accusing Hanyu of doping, lying, etc.

419. Well, there goes my Polyanna theory. Fuck. Some people are just insane.

And that was supposed to be "tasteless" joke, fuck you autocorrect.

That account is kind of notorious too (at least I've heard of it and I'm no twitter denizen) because it has lots of pictures of Hanyu so Hanyu fans who don't know Japanese follow it thinking it's a fan account.

That person has almost 20,000 posts dedicated to harassing someone they don't know.

r416 Before he deleted it:

I thought Japanese skating fans were supposed to be so kind and respectful of everyone... didn't realize how many crazies they have there.

I agree with whoever said Hanyu might need bodyguards the rest of his life. I went through that crazy Twitter and then looked at some of the ones he or she follows. So much hate for someone they don't know. I am concerned for him at Japan Nationals if both Hanyu and Takahashi are there. But Hanyu does have bodyguards at competitions right?

r462. Most people like that bully from the safety of their own armchair. It seems to me that Hanyu has bodyguards more so that he can make it across the street undisturbed, rather than for protection against violence.

And really, even his fame will fade, and once he stops appearing every two days on tv and in press, his stalkers will fade as well. Well, hopefully.

Can we get an update on what Itsuki Uno is doing? His take on this topsy-turvy thing called existence is the only perspective that matters to me right now. Modeling pics would also be appreciated. Thx.

r428 Itsuki Uno vs Vincent Zhou, that would be a match-up

R429 There are no "match-ups" in life, only the melding of two souls, hurtling through space and time towards inexplicability and nothingness.

r430 Thanks for the laughs, Vincent!

When Shoma

had a competition in Taiwan

I went along with him. We entered the hotel

and I was the one who was asked for a signature.

I said, “I’m his brother”,

and they were like, “Ah!!”

r406 Looking like 4 Continents is fucked. They must have been banking on Hanyu competing when they set prices that high - they had Nathan as their cover boy but even if he won the Olympics, I don't think he could have generated enough interest to sell out the event and the likelihood is that he would have retired. I thought I read somewhere that Nathan will likely not even be able to attend because of school and now Hanyu is reportedly not competing. The Japanese fans aren't traveling for Shoma and Americans don't care enough about skating to pay that much for foreigners and second rate American skaters..

Leave it to the American fed to fuck up... Interesting that Yuzuru just said screw the 4CC (not sure he said that - just sayin' - is this more evidence he's past giving many shits, just wants to do it 'my way' but oh please god, don't do Sinatra, Yuzu).

Speaking of his way, I didn't know Dmitri Aliev was working on 4A! Got these Russian boy items from GS:

Kovtun...who knows...His problem is that at this moment the young and hungry ones are coming and that he has no signature skill in his skating to give him some leverage.

Dmitriev is smart trying for that elusive 4 Axel , this is his last chance.

Eteri's got 2 boys working with Danlil - the second one looks promising but he's an itty bitty "advanced novice" - new programs for both:

Artem Frolov (age 15 or 16) "Cry Me a River" Buble (wish he'd do Timberlake's)

Daniil Samsonov (12 or 13) "Rhapsody in Blue" Gershwin – good spins, no quad in rock-n-roll short linked below

Wait - I need a brain transplant. I think they're talking about Artur Dmitriev Jr, age 25, working on the 4A -- not Dmitri Aliev. Oh well, him, Keegan, and Yuzuru. Will any of them do it? And they lowered the points anyway. I can see the others wanting to make a mark before they quit, but I'm worried about Hanyu's ankle and don't see why he's pushing it with the 4A - he reached the summit already.

R426 The fed hired two bodyguards for competitions from 2014 NHK and onwards after a Takahashi fan was issuing death threats online. That person was visited by the prefectural police and actually posted a photo of the warning he received from the security division of his internet provider because the other haters didn’t take him seriously when he cautioned them to be careful. The one good thing about these haters is that they are very public and upload their own evidence. Outside competitions, I think Hanyu’s mom acts as the bodyguard.

R427 I agree that their tactics are mostly from afar and psychological, but they have bullied him at competitions including trying to distract him when he was practicing jumps. Check out the 2014 Sochi FS warmup. From their armchairs, they also revealed the location of his home, his dad's workplace and his classmates university, which has helped obsessive fans stalk him or people connected to him.

How many skaters have left Eteri this year?

R428 If you want to see more of Itsuki, you’ll have more success doing a search with his name in Japanese 宇野樹. He’s always introduced as “Shoma Uno’s handsome brother” (宇野昌磨のイケメン弟) as if the media has been instructed to use that exact phrase. On celebrity news blogs, the subject of his height is always approached in a very positive way. “He’s taller than his brother!” “He’s 165cm, average height!” 6cm shorter than average. “OK, he’s short but he’s still growing!” “So he’s not tall… but look at these other short celebrities!” Also, “Ituski is very popular at school!” “He’s single, but the girls love him!” On national television, he "accidentally" revealed that his brother never goes to class. From 4:00. He says Shoma will sleep until 11AM or until someone wakes him up on days he doesn’t have practice. “Oh, then is he ever late for class?” Itsuki: “No, because he doesn’t go to class.” TV host, nervous, clearly thinking Shut up, Itsuki!: “No, haha. No, he’s, uh, still going to school, I’m sure...” I think he got into trouble for that one but he seems to enjoy shading his brother.

.....

r438 Isn't she, like, 65? Holy shit.

r467. So how does this work, making a career out of being an athlete's brother. You get invited to a show, talk about your brother, get paid. (Does he even get paid for that?) But in 5 years or so Shoma will stop competting, what then? The only way it makes sense to me is if it's all just to make Shoma more popular.

So, is Shoma full-time student? What does he study?

I think you’re a racist r76.

Oh god I just forced myself through the latest This and That with Dave Lease and Jonathan somebody. Jonathan's audio was atrocious - and his manic ramblings are driving me insane but I'm so desperate to hear Dave Lease shade everybody - well, I forced myself through it. My god there was even a teensy bit of shade on Denis Ten re Yuri on Ice but I don't dare type it here because it is probably grossly inappropriate but if anybody wants to hear it, it's in the first half (take an xanax or something if you're sensitive to screechy audio - plus Jonathan is twice as loud as Dave - I sat there with my hand on the volume control turning Dave up and Jonathan down...)

He (well, they, but most of the content was Dave's) talked about Denis' many coaches, especially Frank Carroll - about how it's probably not advisable for Gracie Gold to be competing yet - loads about Karen Chen (Dave had just seen her at a show or camp or something and was commenting on her skating, Mirai's, maybe Gracie's?, Starr Andrews, oh I forget who all.) Some stuff about Canadian pairs having falling-outs and busting up just this past week and where that leaves things (no pairs for their slots, I think he was saying) - even the ones working with Meghan Duhamel just busted up, oh good stuff, if you can force yourself through it.

R436 How scary. All this because Hanyu beat Takahashi? I would never want to be Hanyu for day. I hope they stop. Nobody deserves this.

I still feel such sadness for Denis. What a waste of a young life. The mirrors weren’t worth it...

r433. It's unknown whether Hanyu is going to 4CCs or not, it wasn't announced either way, and the official announcement can't be made until after Japanese Nationals which are formally the trials for 4CCs and Worlds. The fan only made an educated guess which competitions Hanyu will take part in: ACI and GPs were confirmed, she's banking on him making it to the GPF, Nationals is a sure thing unless he's ill, and Worlds are very likely. 4CCs are just not certain because Hanyu's got history of skipping them. Oddly enough, usually he had an actual reason: illness, Olys, sprained ankle etc, but JSF practices spreading it's skaters across competitions too so some skaters get Worlds and some 4CCs. I think Takahashi's return might factor in: if Takahashi does well enough at Nationals he might change his mind and want to take part in either Worlds or 4CCs. On the other hand if Hanyu actually goes for the 4A this season, 4CCs would be a good place to test it out, so he might want to go. There's 50/50 chance Hanyu will go.

That said, US Fed are crazy with those ticket prices. Even Japanese Hanyu fans will think twice.

The U.S. Fed is crazy and greedy with those prices. I hope Yuzuru and Nathan decide not to go to 4CC. They don't deserve those two. I hope the event is a flop. Maybe the U.S. Fed will think twice before doing something like that again.

R439 Uno studies sports medicine at Chukyo University where they have their own skating club. Mao, Miki, and Kozuka also went there. They specialize in Olympic level sports programs, so I assume athletes aren't expected to attend class full-time. He's also an employee of Toyota although in name only until he retires.

It seemed like Itsuki was being used to help Shoma's popularity in the beginning because the latter doesn't speak much or well, but Shoma won over the public during the Olympics with his quirky personality and Itsuki's presence is becoming a nuisance to Shoma fans, so there must be something more to it if the media is still bringing out the younger brother. All of the other siblings who've been promoted in this way were skaters themselves and the media wasn't gushing about them this much. Another weird thing that happened with the Uno family is the grandfather, a painter, showed a painting he supposedly did of Shoma on TV but there's a Pooh bear on the ice and the figure kind of looks like Hanyu.

Perhaps a Freudian slip on Grandpa's part? lol

Since the other FG thread has expired is it where we talk about Lake Placid Ice Dance competition (first international competition of 2018/19 season) and about the entries of Bangkok Challenger Series?

R443 It might just be a rumor but I read somewhere that Denis' Lexus was a gift from the president for his medal at Sochi. Both of the suspects had criminal records and one had just been released and awaiting trial (or something like that) for a similar theft charge. I don't understand why the suspects couldn't have just run away without hurting Denis when they were two on one.

Nathan's new program is a rehash of Abbot's Land of All ex from last year and Yura Min's dad is accusing Gamelin of being shady with the gofundme account?

R448 yes you can talk about anything related to figure skating

I made a new thread once this one is full. Wasn't sure if it's 500 or 600 posts.

The South Korean assignments

Asian Trophy: Eunsoo Lim, Sihyeong Lee, Seunghoon Park, Sejong Byun

Lombardia Trophy: Junehyeong Lee

Autumn Classic: Junhwan Cha

Ondrej Nepela: Dabin Choi

Finlandia Trophy: Haneul Kim

R448 I think you can talk about whatever you want here including, but not limited to, I, Uno, Shoma's impossibly handsome, catalogue modelesque brother, who is impossibly handsome.

r450 limit is 600 but we'll get there soon enough

lol, I think Itsuki is nice looking but model seems a bit too far. In this case, I'm pretty sure model is just the title you use when you're a fame whore but don't have any actual creditable achievements.

I think I better start a Vincent Zhou quote compilation. So sad to think of all the great Chan quotes I may have lost over the years. I hope Zhou's social media is around for many more years to come.

r446. this painting thing is hilarious

r451 ACI should be renamed "TCC Championships" or some such. I'm excited to see what Cha brings to the table this season. Though I must say I will miss Tursynbaeva there.

r448. Feel free. Who's going to Bangkok?

Here's a twitter thread translating an article about the issues between Min/Gamelin over the gofundme account. She's claiming his parents oversaw the 125K they received, wants him to return it since they're not going to Beijing. Apparently their coaching fees alone were $200K/year because they didn't have sponsors!

R453 I think "nice looking" is going a bit too far. You're likely the kind of generous minded person who upon seeing Sloth from the Goonies likely remarked, "He is a kind hearted fellow with a sweet tooth."

r455 That Min/Gamelin mess is on par with the Russian drama.

Coaching fees of 200K a year? That would make over $16500 a month... Seriously?

R455 So the journalist only interviewed Min's father and rep in that article. "He revealed last feb that his parents paid for his retirement plan to support his olympic dream." - I'm guessing what the translator was trying to say was that Gamelin's parents had relinquished their retirement fund to support the couple. If the coaching fees are 200k a year, Min's father had to loan Gamelin money to pay for transportation, and Gamelin's parents couldn't even afford to watch him at Olympics, I don't understand their objection to the donations. I would like to know why Min has gone through seven partners in 10 years.

r412 , r414 I think it would have been a real slap in the face to not let Uno have NHK. Previous years, Hanyu was their top finisher at worlds so it makes sense to give him NHK. But Uno skated injured to earn those spots for the JSF this year. I don't think Hanyu has even expressed a desire to get NHK and won't it likely sell out anyway? From ISU perspective, Hanyu should always skate in events that struggle to sell.

r438 Damn. That's what a 55 year old looks like these days?!?

r446 I actually like that painting but I'm utterly confused as to why there's a Pooh bear if it's supposed to be Uno. The body type is more like Uno's. The face doesn't really look like either to me though it looks more like Hanyu than Uno, I guess. Still, it's better than that piece of shit painting of Hanyu that sold for 1/2 mil or something.

r435 For Hanyu, 4 axel is just one of those dreams that he disregarded in pursuit of competition. I think he figures at this point he's achieved everything he needs to competitively so he can start being crazy. But I think he's always had the mindset to push the sport - he never needed 4 loop or 4 lutz to win but kept insisting on it.

r456 Nah, in true DL fashion, I'm pretty bitchy. I'm the racist that thinks Nathan looks like a sexy monkey - not even sure why, I'm thinking it's the ears and the dullness of the eyes. Honestly, I just don't see anything wrong with either Uno's face. "Nice looking" is just my term for not hot but not ugly either.

R437 Thanks for teaching a man to fish and feeding him for a lifetime. My first find was this painterly vision of I, Uno. It's called, "Sojourn Through the Morning Dew"

Japanese Fed's September assignments

ASAN OPEN (Bangkok):

Sota Yamamoto,Mitsuki Sumoto,

Mako Yamashita,Yuna Shiraiwa

Misato Komatsubara / Timothy Koleto

USA INTERNATIONAL (Salt Lake City)

Hiroaki Sato

Satoko Miyahara,Yuna Shiraiwa

Misato Komatsubara / Timothy Koleto

LOMBARDIA TROPHY

Shoma Uno,Kazuki Tomono

Kaori Sakamoto,Mako Yamashita

NEPELA

Keiji Tanaka

Rika kihira

AUTUMN CLASSIC

Yuzuru Hanyu

Wakaba Higichi,Yura Matsuda

NEBELHORN

Mai Mihara,Marin Honda

FINLANDIA TROPHY

Rika Hongo Miu Suzaki / Ryuichi Kihara

So Sota's back in competition - that injury cost him a few years - I wonder, does he have a quad? Lombardia's ghost pretty strong representation, I hope it won't be the even where Shoma gets his PB. People going yo ACI are lucky, both Hanyu and Wakaba.

Lombardia usually give out scores like candies.

I saw Sota at the competition in Luxemburg the week before Worlds. He finished 5th behind Majorov, Tomono, Ponsart and Sato. At that time no quads and not even 3A.

Perhaps he recovered a bit more of his jumps. To think that he was on his way to be the successor of Hanyu and Uno - he used to have a 4T at the age of 15. I remember he won a JGP over Deniss Vasilijevs and Krasnozhon, and how I thought Sota and Deniss would have a bright future and Krasnozhon would get lost amongst the American guys due to his heavy skating.

Btw, yesterday I learned that Deniss lives with Stephane. I guess that in this case loyalty to Stephane will stop Deniss ever from leaving. His chances for a quad don't look too good.

Does anyone have any ideas or hope to see in regards to Hanyu's sp and fs? What do you think he might wear for a costume? I want to see him continue to wear what he has been wearing. I loved the hope and legacy costume and would like to see him go with costumes like that one. As for music I would love for him to skate to pieces that he relates to. Something that goes to his heart and soul. Whatever that may be. I want him to be himself out on that ice.

In that Press Conference he did after the Olympics, didn't he say he wants to continue to skate to Asian music? I'm excited to see what he comes up with.

I'm just trying to pass time while we are in off season.

Poll: How will Nathan Chen do this season?

A) Fantastic! He will have 5-6 quads and bring artistry to his programs

B) same as last season

C) terrible. He won't have enough time to do much with his Yale schedule

R466 I'm excited too for his programs. I really want to see what he does for his costumes. It should be exciting.

r467. B

d) Nathan will turn to modeling full-time because that's what all the stars of figure skating do.

r460 gotta hand it to the Japanese. Their men are definitely the goofiest mofos in skating right now.

r466 r468 Someone claimed they saw him practicing Let's Go Crazy. Last year, TCC media day was 8/9-8/10, so not too much longer to wait for the announcements.

r467 B. I imagine Nathan will stagnate. He'll win Skate America, the French Grand Prix, and Nationals. Silver at GPF. Silver or bronze at worlds.

R457 Nathan said his LP "Land of All" was inspired by Jeremy Abbott's 2017-2018 "Land of All," but the "elite" skater at GS is claiming it's more of a copy. Abbott's version was choreographed by Benoit Richaud, but who choreographed Nathan's? Abbott is also performing at the Japan Open. I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict Abbott will be performing a different exhibition piece.

R460 They're reenacting the rain scene from the infamous Japanese art house porn In the Realm of the Senses

R471 I cannot see him redoing LGC, although he never performed it clean. Someone just wants to see the tight purple pants again.

Who was Denis Ten’s boyfriend?

I made the poll and didn't answer my own poll. I pick C. Not sure how well he will do while going to Yale full time.

I can't see Hanyu doing LGC again. First he never did it clean and second I can't see him wearing that costume again. Am I the only one that hated that costume?

R474 Denis claimed to be straight.

r476 I can see him doing LGC precisely because he never skated it clean. He's always trying to perfect his programs and wanted to skate it in the Olympic season but his team convinced him that it was a bad idea.

I think there are as many people that hate that costume as those that love it. It's one of my personal favorites.

r457 just out of curiousity, is the "elite" skater that IceRabbit? He claimed he was a great skater but I just assumed he was joking. Sometimes it's hard to tell on there when someone is kidding or if they're a genuine dipshit.

R476 I personally didn't like it, but it had its moments.

Who is Johnny Weir dating now? Who would want him?

r480 lol. looks like Javi and Shoma wear briefs. The rest must be dance belts.

R479. There's the reason I hate that costume. Why didn't anyone tell him the costume did that? Coach Brian allowed him to skate like that lol.

R480. Johnny is single I believe. I'm not even sure he is looking for anyone. I hope he can find someone who loves him. Not like that ex husband of his.

R478 That's the one. I think he truly believes he's an elite skater, but not everyone has the same definition of "elite." He was one of the performers at Nathan's Sun Valley show or implied it anyway. He really loves Abbott.

I want Yuzuru to wear more costumes like this. It's beautiful.and i think it fits him.

[quote] I think he truly believes he's an elite skater, but not everyone has the same definition of "elite."

isn't ISU definition of "elite" skaters something like "once did National Championships"?

R486 Fuck you. I also won silver at Finlandia Trophy once.

I loved those Purple Pants of Sin. The white ones were fine with me too.

I'm confused. Are you guys talking about these Purple Pants of Sin?

r484 He got the highest FS score at Olympics, won a GPF once, won Worlds. How is he NOT an elite skater?

r489 Makes me wonder what Orser thinks now about his erstwhile costume choices.

I support Hanyu's Prince costume, if only for the shock value, although I much prefer the white version. After all his frills and sequins I thought he couldn't surprise me anymore, but the white spandex did.

[quote] He got the highest FS score at Olympics, won a GPF once, won Worlds. How is he NOT an elite skater?

the Golden Skate poster?

I think Ic3Rabbit (the GoldenSkate poster) might be a woman. I went through their posting history, and I can't imagine any male skater giving tampon advice. Unless he's so caught up in his own sense of self importance that he feels qualified to talk about sanitary products.

r491 Not really, just a realistic poster. I love me some Hanyu as much as the next person here, if not more, and I can bemoan Nathan's weaknesses with the best of them, but that doesn't blind me to reality. "Elite skater" is not a subjective term, like someone upwards implied. You're on the GP level, you're an elite skater. If you win Worlds, you're certainly an elite skater. Geez, it's not rocket science. Take off those Hanyu-tinted goggles and use those brain cells.

R 493 They're talking about someone on Golden Skate, not Chen.

R493 maybe I'm misunderstanding this because I'm not the person who posted but I think R484 R 491 are talking about the golden skate poster and not Nathan.

Where is elite defined by the ISU? I only found an old webpage that says a skater at U.S. Nationals aiming for top three but it's not by the ISU.

I remembered wrongly.

I had in mind the "high level skater" requirement to become a ISU/International technical specialist when the new system was introduced. And for high level they meant "as a minimum at national level"

Their definition was on porpuse very broad to have a large pool of choices. Even if fininshing 5th at US Nationals is not exactly the same as fininshing 5th at Austrian Nationals.

The demise of Michigan Ice Dance continues....

From GoldenSkate, Nazarova/Nikitin have left Novi. They are back to Ukraine. They can't afford the costs of training and living in USA. Bourzat will coach them in Europe. Will talk to Shpilband by phone...

And obviously Shpilband has lost also trashy Min/Gamelin...no bitching updates by them this week? Any new delated posts?

R482 Seriously? Why wouldn't any Yuzu fan want to see that gorgeous round ass of his? And why wouldn't he want to show it off? He knows exactly how he looks on the ice in those purple pants. He has that Japanese fellow constantly shooting videos of him. He also said he slicked back his hair for LGC because he knew his fans would enjoy it. The kid knows how to work a crowd.

r494 r495. Well, thanks. Now I feel stupid. Which is very therapeutic for me, I'm sure.

Anyway, they all should put on purple spandex and bend over so that we can make informed comparison. Black hides too much.

Thinking back to that photo of Hanyu and Lambiel. The one where Hanyu is grabbing Lambiels ass. I wonder if Lambiel also grabbed Hanyus ass at any time. I know I would have.

[quote] Anyway, they all should put on purple spandex and bend over so that we can make informed comparison. Black hides too much.

and maybe add some ripped trousers. but only for those who wear a dance belt.

R500 perhaps this will make you feel better. We're here to help.

In the second photo Yuzu looks as if he's thinking I want the hug.

R499 there is no doubt Hanyu has a nice ass. I wish I had an ass like that. I hated that the pants were going into his ass? Well it looked like it anyway.

Mai Mihara is recycling last season's FS (The Mission)

Tanaka will recycle the SP as expected (he always keeps a program for 2 seasons)

Marin Honda

SP Seven Nation Army (choreographed by Shae Lynn Borne)

FP Lovers (choreographed by Lori Nichol)

Hiroaki Sato (the Figaroy boy from NHK 2017)

SP Too Close (choreo by Massimo Scali)

FS Shostakovich Symphony Number 5 "Revolution" (choreo by Misao Sato)

Mako Yamashita (bronze at 2018 Junior Worlds)

SP - Una Voce Poco Fa (choreo by Mihoko Higuchi)

FS - Madame Butterfly (choreo by Mihoko Higuchi)

Yuna Shiraiwa

SP All On Board (choreo by Tomm Dickson)

FS -Pictures at an Exhibition (same as last season)

Mitsuki Sumoto

SP Tosca (choreo by Nanami Abe)

FS Mi Mancherai (choreo by Nanami Abe)

R506 The Japanese women seem to be trying new things at least. Do we know who choreographed Uno's SP and FS?

r489 OMG! those 80's monstrosities were more ridiculous looking than anything Hanyu has ever worn. To think, Scott Hamilton was trying to promote those jump suits as a way to butch up figure skating's image.

r503 Wow, you can see each individual muscle. It's like he's wearing purple paint instead of pants. I second the motion to put all the guys in those.

r486 , r492 My first thought was that IceRabbit was just someone's character to troll the board. Hard to believe that someone like that could be for real but maybe s/he needs to adjust the dosage on the meds.

r506 why do people keep using Lori Nichol? Her formula got old a decade ago. I'm going to have to check out that Mitsuki Sumoto - I wish Nanami Abe would choreograph another program for Hanyu.

Thank you, r503, a nice bent-over ass always brightens my day!

r506

If I never see another ate to Madam Butterfly, it'll be too soon. Wtf do the Japanese see in that awful story?

In concept, a program to Seven Nation Army sounds amazing, especially given who's doing the choreo, but I can't imagine Marin of all people doing a rock number. Wakaba perhaps, but Marin?

R505 "I hated that the pants were going into his ass? Well it looked like it anyway."

Have a little compassion, will ya? Think about it from the pants' point of view. If you were a tight pair of purple pants and someone put you that close to a muscular, fine, round ass, wouldn't you creep closer and closer until you could creep no more, savoring every second that you could be together, giving each other succor and comfort?

[quote]If I never see another ate to Madam Butterfly

huh?

r512 another *skate*

R486 In that case, he or she could be a synchronized skater on a team that happened to make it to nationals.

R489 Oh, god, no! Still better than boring, I'll give you that.

R492 [quote] I think Ic3Rabbit (the GoldenSkate poster) might be a woman. I went through their posting history, and I can't imagine any male skater giving tampon advice. [bold]Unless he's so caught up in his own sense of self importance that he feels qualified to talk about sanitary products.[/bold]

See, I would totally believe that.

R498 We're still missing info on Min vs. Gamelin, Jin vs. TCC/China, Krasnozhon vs. Cain, Morozov vs. Child Bride. Polina Tsurskaya's parents were supposed to dish on Eteri.

R500 We were talking about this one poster on GS who's been criticizing Nathan for copying Abbott's EX from last year. This poster likes to remind everyone that he's (or she's) a former elite skater who's in the know.

I love how Lambiel knows he's hot, yet his instagram is still somewhat tasteful. Can't say the same for some of these other men... Speaking of, Morgan Ciprès made his instagram private.

R515 Lambiel has gotten hotter with age. Now please tell us who the skanky hot skaters are. That's the important piece right there.

r515. So all it takes to have a tasteful Instagram is not to post half-naked pictures of yourself and not doing sexy poses? Because Lambiel's Insta looks pretty much like an average Joe's, only here's better looking than an average Joe.

R516 Ciprès, Rippon, and Michael Christian Martinez are the worst offenders. There was that one Japanese guy a while back. I think he was a pairs skater? Who else should be added to the list? Cizeron doesn't have as many half-naked pictures as I thought. Same with handsy Donohue.

R517 Pretty much. Or lengthy inspirational messages.

R511 LOL! I have no response to that. You won.

Lambiel is so good looking. I hope he finds a good person to share his life with. Maybe he can wait for Hanyu and get him away from Japan and the crazy fans there.

Deniss Vasiljevs lives with Lambiel but if I had my druthers, I agree with you, I'd go with Yuzu.

Not to start anything but hey this is Datalounge - Misha Ge had other skaters sign his shoes at faoi, and Yuzu apparently wrote: Yuzu is mean "friend"

Hmmm. The responders to the photo seem to think it was all in good fun but I'm not so sure - I was watching a clip and Yuzu gave Misha what I thought was an angry glare at one point - and pointedly avoided him in the goodbye line (I think that's why he latched onto somebody else at the end - I saw Misha skating behind as close as he could in one 'line'). Don't just love these middle school girl dramas? Misha really knows how to bring 'em.

What figure skating god's cock do I have to suck to get a gig at Lambiel's school in Champéry? You live with him, he wipes your nose when you sneeze, you get to watch his beautiful lips move as he mouths coaching words blah blah jump blah blah spin. Who cares if Deniss ever lands two quads. He's won at life.

[quote] There was that one Japanese guy a while back. I think he was a pairs skater?

Me? I just announced I am retiring my ass from skating world

r520 Lambiel doesn't have a boyfriend? I thought he was in a long-term relationship with someone.

R524, you're right, Chris Trevisan (Deniss's manager). I think they all live together in a happy family group, also including the little Japanese kid Koshiro

r525 Good for them!

So, if you're gay and want kids, become a FS coach. Just beware that they usually come in their most troublesome teenage years.

I was thinking that with that setup, a popular ex-skater as a coach, living with your manager, even if Deniss doesn't get far in competition, he could carve himself a nice niche as a show skater, like Misha.

We actually should give some credit to Misha though. Not many medium-tier skaters (or even top skaters) have something substantial to retire to, like Misha has. That attention-whoring and ingratiation is his job, and it works. Dude has his plate full, gotta admire that. (And I will defend him as a choreographer: I think his program for Tomono is very nice.)

well, yes, Deniss is already in a lot of shows that Lambiel is in. He's a type of skater that works well in EXs, so he could have received some invitations by his own, but having the same manager as Lambiel should help a lot. Trevisan may "sell" him in a package with Lambiel.

Ah, Tomono's FS is River Dance

Well there goes my dream of Lambiel with Hanyu. : (

R521. Yuzu is mean "friend"? I am not sure what that means. Maybe Yuzu meant he has a mean friend in Misha? Where can I find this clip? YouTube?

r530 I know Hanyu's English isn't the best, but it's not that bad. "You're a mean 'friend'" is rude, "I'm a mean 'friend'" is a self-depreciating joke. I think.

I don't think Yuzuru's English is that bad either. Maybe he was thinking you're a mean friend. Of course he can't write that on the shoe so he wrote it the way he did.

I wish I'd made note of that clip R530 but now I can't even begin to think where to look. There was a line of chairs where the women sat - and in this particular clip, Yuzuru spends a long time at the end of the line (far left) talking to Oda. Oda finally points as though telling Yuzuru to go get in the middle - he manages to take Oda with him to the middle but Misha ends up beside Yuzu anyway and Yuzu leans on or talks to Plushy (on the other side) but does one look at Misha, which I thought looked very angry.

But then, maybe he had gas. Anyway, also in the clip, they're in a line with Misha behind Yuzu, and Yuzu runs up to either Plushy or Javier, anyway, he grabs hold of them, while Misha is right behind, looking like he'd like to get in on it but doesn't manage (I know one time, the first show, Yuzu grabbed Satoko by the hand and held it as they circled -- it was her only show, so that makes sense, but now that I see Misha was nearby all the time, I just thought he was trying to play keep away.) Again, all this is maybe reading way too much into things - but then I saw his comment on the shoe (and I recognize Yuzu's handwriting -- it's pretty sophisticated in English to know to put friend in quotes if you're being snide, isn't it?

Oh I need to take my tin hat off and even if they are at odds, it's understandable with the stupid weibo post, the bracelets, that ludicrous long Instagram post about how he'd been there for Yuzu through his ups and downs blah blah and then he deleted it soon after. Oh and Yuzu covering his face when Misha and Evgenia made him take a photo with them when he clearly didn't want to and was trying to pay tribute to the musicians at the end of one of the shows Lots of little tidbits of Misha being a pest -- but hopefully he'll stay away from him and quit bothering him - surely he's got the message by now. The Weibo thing is rude as hell, from a "friend", if you ask me.

Sorry to get off on this.... even if they're spatting, it's good to see someone's true colors so you can move on, better informed (assuming this is all what it looks like.) No crimes committed - just possible a user trying to use... happens everyday in showbiz...

My guess on the "friend" thing on Misha's shoe is they had some sort of argument - maybe involving Misha throwing up to Yuzu that he'd been such a good friend (just the way he did in the Instagram post) - maybe after Yuzuru confronted him about the Weibo post -- and the dispute ended up with Misha saying Yuzu wasn't being a good friend to him by not taking the Weibo "joke" well, so now Yuzu signs as his mean "friend" -- does that makes sense?

If there weren't all the other things, it would be more perplexing, but I think it's a kind of dig.

Look at Stephane and well, everybody, lustfully looking at Yuzu's ass lol - I have a feeling Yuzu may realize it?? Not sure. Is he just an innocent?

Just for R530 because I know this is getting annoying - I found it!- well just the part with the dirty look from Yuzu to Misha, which is at about 13 seconds into this short video (the only time he looks straight at Misha to his left) -- the other times he looks left he's looking at Oda who he just dragged from the end of the line with him (the earlier and later videos of this line up scenario are somewhere else on this person's Instagram, if you poke around).

I forgot the link!

From bracelets to shoes drama, lol. How old are we. lol. But what if Hanyu wanted to say: Yuzu means "friend"?

I think it was a grammatical error because I don't think Hanyu would purposely write some thing mean with everyone's messages and drawings on the shoe. The shoe was signed sometime before the Kanazawa show because a member of Chemistry, the musical guest, had a photo of it on IG. Hanyu was certainly annoyed with Misha by the end of the tour. He didn't just hide his face in their last photo, but tried to avoid professional photos with Misha while he encouraged the photographer to take photos of him with other skaters. The atmosphere in the second half of the tour was entirely different.

I'm sure Hanyu just meant it as a self deprecating joke, seems in line with his sense of humor. If there is annoyance with Misha, he's not going to let it play out on a shoe. The real drama right now is with the russian ladies. I guess Danil jumped into the fray with a short statement about Darya Panenkova, so GS is lighting up with crazy speculation over it. He said something to the effect of, she refused to come onto the ice and stayed in the locker room. Eteri told her come to the ice or leave and she and her mother chose to leave.

R535 Daniil is giving the death stare.

First International competition of the 2018/19 season starts tomorrow, the Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships

It's essentially McNamara/Carpenter vs Parsons/Parsons.

ENTRIES

Molly Lanaghan / Dmitre Razgulajevs (CAN)

Haley Sales / Nikolas Wamsteeker (CAN)

Emily Monaghan / Ilias Fourati (HUN)

Shira Ichilov / Vadim Davidovich (ISR)

Lorraine McNamara / Quinn Carpenter (USA)

Rachel Parsons / Michael Parsons (USA)

Elicia Reynolds / Stephen Reynolds (USA)

If the barely heard before Hungarian and Israeli teams don't withdraw, there are enough ISU members entered to make it valid even for World Standing points (which is kinda of a joke given the level of the event)

Nicole Takahashi & Oleg Altukhov (USA)

R535 I don't blame Stephane at all. I'd stare at his ass too. Yuzu lifts his shirt up as well. I don't think he is innocent. Yuzu knows what he is doing. I am so excited to see what he brings this season.

R536 yes I see what you are saying. He turns towards Misha and his face then looks a little upset. I don't believe those two are on good terms with each other right now. Misha needs to learn to respect people he calls a friend.

ASIAN Open (Bangkok) - Challenger Series (1-5 August)

MEN

Jordan Dodds (Australia)

Charlton Doherty (Australia)

James Min (Australia)

Chih-Sheng Chang (Taipei)

Chihi I-Tsao (Taipei)

Kwang Bom Han (North Korea)

Leslie Man Cheuk Ip (Hong Kong)

Kwun Hung Leung (Hong Kong)

Harrison Jon Yen Wong (Hong Kong)

Alberto Widaja (Indonesia )

Mitsuki Sumoto (Japan)

Sota Yamamoto (Japan)

Se Jong Byun (South Korea)

Sihyeong Lee (South Korea)

Sunghoon Park (South Korea)

Artem Lezhev (Russia)

Chadwick Wang (Singapore)

R542 is this going to be televised? Does anyone have the television schedule for the new season?

PAIRS

Peng/Yin (China)

Tang/Yang (China)

Ryom/Kim (North Korea)

ICE DANCE

Kerry/Dodds (Australia)

Ning/Wang (China)

Wang/Liu (China)

Pyo/Choe (North Korea)

Komatsubara/Koleto (Japan)

Yilansuwan/Luanpreda (Thilandia)

Television schedule for the United States.

LADIES

Hongyi CHEN (China)

Stephanie Yuung-Shuh CHANG (Taipei)

Amy Lin (Taipei)

Hiu Ching KWONG (Hong Kong)

Yi Christy LEUNG (Hong Kong)

Joanna So (Hong Kong)

Erika SANJAYA (Indonesia)

Yuna SHIRAIWA (Japan)

Mako YAMASHITA (Japan)

Eunsoo LIM (South Korea)

Seoyoung YOON (South Korea)

Thita LAMSAM (Thailandia)

Starr ANDREWS (USA)

R546 No TV. Last year there was a live stream from Lake Placid but you needed to subscribe (and pay).

Some of the Senior B offer free live streams. Maybe the Thai Challenger will have it.

The quality of live stream from Senior B is quite variable but I guess we should be thankful to those organizers who offer them for free

I loved the Cup of Tyrol (or was it the Cup of Merano?) live stream. They didn't have graphs. So the camera man would wrote the score down on a piece of paper and place it in front of the camera to show it

Mai Mihara is suffering fron juvenile arthritis. Marin Honda signed with IMG. She's also still signed with the talent agency Oscar pro.

Maybe Eteri became even more strict after Medvedeva left? Or Medvedeva gave the other skaters the courage to leave.

Daria isn't the first Eteri skater to run away from Novogorsk. Polina Shelepin did the same thing a few years ago.

Daisuke Takahashi (I think - he doesn't quite look right in this picture but still has the two-tone hair?)

anyway - why oh why would he pick David Wilson to choreograph for him? Or maybe it's just me who thinks he's awful.

And the background doesn't look like TCC so it must be that secondary ice rink in Toronto that Orser talked about.

Panenkova's decision to leave is weird though, with so many others leaving she'd be one of the very few seniors Eteri has. It's complete speculation on my part, but maybe that whole exodus has taken toll on Eteri and she has become much more difficult to work with? To the point of driving students away?

r553 David Wilson's choreos is stale but I think Takahashi's skating is distinctive enough that he can make up for the lack of originality with his expressiveness.

For a challenger event, Asian Open has a remarkably weak field. I. suppose the date works against it, it's just too early for most senior skaters to be remotely ready.

Some of the entries of Asian Open have never be seen before. In the case of the North Korean ice dance couple, literally

I can't figure out who's the most awkward but they're all cute (Yuzuru, Nathan, Keiji)

r547 Is Peng/Yin the same as Peng/Jin? If so, it's the contest between them and Ryom/Kim. Nice way to earn some points, take part in a competition with 3 pairs, guaranteed at least bronze!

R557 yes, Peng/Jin. I mispelled his name.

Because of lack of entries, ISU today announced that the Pairs event in Bangkog won't count as a Challenger but will be demoted to International status

So scores will count towards minimum TES for Worlds/4 Continents.

But it won't count as SB or PB

And given there are not 5 skaters from 3 ISU members, it won't count for World Standing

P/J vs R/K contest is quite interesting though

R550 thank you!

And I may be the few or the only one here that doesn't care for Dai.

You're not the only one, R559. He seems so grumpy and I'm not crazy about his looks (yes, I'm shallow enough to make that a priority ahem.)

I'm also not a fan and his appearance does nothing for me either. So that makes at least three of us.

[R553] Wilson choreographs at a number of different rinks in the TO area. Takahashi isn't with TCC so there's no reason to be there.

This is a question about old news, but since we have a few Japanese speaking posters here who are willing to share, I'd like to ask: what is the back story, if any, regarding the guest list for Hanyu's show back in April? It seemed very specific to me, in terms of who was included and who was excluded; some names were expected, others were not. It's clear he didn't just go for the big names, but people who were personally important to him; then again, some of the choices also seemed to be motivated by other considerations besides just their relationship with him.

I'm not Japanese, but I know the cast is comprised of people who helped and inspired him along the way.

Weir and Plushenko are his childhood skating idols and have also given him advice throughout his career Buttle and Shae choreographed his iconic programs Kavaguti trained in Russia so she helped him cope with living away from home. Someone on a board said that she and Smirnov also skated a tribute for 3-11 Mura or someone in his family helped him develop the axel when he was a kid Minoru Sano was the first Japanese world medalist.

Dammit. So annoying when you lose the formatting when you make a list. Forgot about Javi but I think we all know why he was there.

R564 R565 Thanks for your response. Sorry, I was being too open-ended and vague. I think his connection to the non-Japanese skaters are more clear to me as a westerner (his choreographers, childhood idols etc). I'm just curious because I didn't really understand the selection of the Japanese skaters - except for Mura, it didn't seem he's all that personally close to the others. For example, why Kavaguti? What about other Japanese women? Even Mura wasn't a particularly obvious choice. Why Mura over say, Oda? Why Sano over Takeshi Honda? I'm not even going to ask about Takahashi; we know the answer to that, I think. Given all the good gossip we've learned on this thread about the various Japanese skaters/factions, I just wonder whether there's an interesting story behind these choices.

I can't wait to see the North Korean dance couple. Are they even allowed to get steamy on the ice or show any kind of sensuality? Where do they train?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that doesn't care for Dai. And I don't believe he needs to be at TCC. He's just being a pain. Perhaps getting some attention he craves. I apologize to the ones that like him. I just think he is as coo coo as his fans.

R467 I know I really enjoyed the North Korean figure skaters at this past Olympics. It was a first for me to watch that team skate. I am excited to see more from North Korea.

Well, I don't know any interesting stories but here's the program by Kavaguti & Smirnov and the tweets below it explain more about it. In addition to skating that program and helping him with homesickness, apparently she was also a student of Sano.

According to an FSU poster, when he was 4 years old Hanyu followed his sister to a class being taught by Minoru Sano and that's how he started skating. Sano was also a student of Hanyu's first coach - Tsuzuki

Why Oda wasn't there, my best guess is that he was commentating? But the other guests also had something to do with his development as a skater while I think Oda is just a friend.

R570 I did see that thread at the time and it made me wonder whether Hanyu is planning to do Itsumo nando demo (the song at the end of Spirited Away) next season.

r571 haha, I got nothing then. But I doubt there's anything juicy behind any of these stories. These feel good stories rarely are.

As for why there aren't any ladies ... uh... I imagine that they didn't have that certain *something* to hold his attention

though in all seriousness, I was surprised that Arakawa wasn't mentioned. But she was pregnant at the time so maybe that's why. And Mao has her own show, but I think they weren't all that close anyways.

I find Dai to be kind of ghetto looking but I liked his dancing and he had some good programs. I hope he skates a little internationally. The men's field needs a bitch.

R572 You're likely right - there are perfectly logical explanations for each of the choices. I'm just looking for shit where none exists.

I thought Dai was good looking and liked his skating, but he looks wane and rough in the new pictures. I wish Asian men would stop dying and frying their hair. I can't think of a single instance where it looks attractive.

I meant "wan." He's not the moon.

I think we already knew this, but Med officially announced her programs on her insta:

SP - Natalie Cole “Orange Colored Sky” Choreography by @itsmedwlsn & Sandra Bezic

FP - (first part) Yo Yo Ma “Mumuki” (second part) “Libertango” Choreographer - @itsmedwlsn

Here's the link to the new thread. This one almost to 600.

R566 To add onto what others have said, Hanyu is from Sendai and most of the top Japanese skaters come from Kansai, so he didn’t train with them growing up. Hanyu and Mura became good friends after practicing together during shows and sharing a love of earphones. Out of all of the other Japanese men, Hanyu said Mura was the skater who looked after him the most, and Mura and his father helped stabilize his triple axel. I don’t think it was brought up during Hanyu’s show, but Mura has said Hanyu helped him develop his quad toe loop and his words of encouragement were the reason why he decided to continue skating after failing to make the 2014 Sochi team. Mura retired in March and Kavaguti in September, so I think that also influenced Hanyu’s decision to include them in his show.

Itsuki’s biggest fan, your boy got a perm to look just like his older brother. Shoma needs to watch his back. Itsuki also played a field hockey match with the president of Toyota (Shoma’s sponsor) last month at his high school.

Other gossip: The Ice, which starts on Saturday, isn’t selling well and sponsors are giving tickets away while nicer seats have been discounted. Mao used to headline the show but she has her own tour this year and Uno has taken her place. Jin Boyang and TCC’s Daleman will be there, which could be interesting. Is Daleman the type to keep a secret? Some of the cast members like Chen and Zagitova are expected to perform their new programs.

R576 Nooo Libertango nooo

R578 Simply breathtaking, thank you. A sunkissed balayage that highlights perfectly the mixture of intensity and insouciance that makes Itsuki so irresistible. Brother, model, field hockey player, cultural icon. What next? He's limited only by the limits of imagination itself.

If Hanyu had had any youngish women on his own ice show - whether his friends Kanako Murakami, Akiko Suzuki, or whomever - their faces would be in the crosshairs of the shipping hordes, as has happened to his distress, so even if he were inclined, I think he wouldn't invite them.

I wanted to see his ex-coach Nanami Abe though, dammit. It's been said she encouraged his moving on but on an obscure thread or comment section somewhere, I read that her husband did an interview saying that was NOT the case. And there are other reasons I guess - but I thought she was a glaring omission.

BTW, in one clip they did show Oda at the show in a control room commentating, and he waved his arm and said, "I want to skate!"

At least his producer seemed to be female (the one who guided the little kids out and sat with him during interviews) and also his interpreters. He works with women - even seems a bit closer to Tracy than Brian, on an emotional level, and he's a mama's boy, but... well, he probably has to be. What a tightwire rope of a life he leads... BTW, I heard the ice show before Hanyu's and Fantasy on Ice that he appeared in also had ticket trouble. Maybe Dai fans don't outnumber Hanyu fans after all?

Wow, shows with cast including Nathan Chen, Boyang Jin, Zagitova and Shoma Uno have trouble selling tickets? In Japan?

I wonder,then, whether the market is not over-saturated. I read somewhere that Mao made an effort to bring down the ticket prices of her show by using already-existing choreography, using smaller and less popular venues and going to smaller towns.

[quote] Maybe Dai fans don't outnumber Hanyu fans after all?

Nobody claimed that. They're just very loud.

Looking at all those posts, "Meh, Dai" makes me feel pity for Dai. I may not be a great fan of his personality, but I do like his skating. Technically flawed, yes, his jumps and spins far from "art" but he makes it up in his step sequences. And he looks just fine, wtf. Since when are a bit of rough features such a flaw? He's hot, I'd tap that ass.

Tickets for Hanyu’s GP assignments go on sale next week, nobody is buying tickets to The Ice because they’re all saving to fly to Finland and Russia for Yuzuru I’m sure. Besides, my understanding is Shoma is nearly as popular in Japan as he is in Western spaces, he doesn’t come close to the star power draw that Yuzu has.

r583 Are you saying that Shoma is more popular in the West?

I doubt Finlandia tickets influence The Ice ticket sales, unless hard-core Hanyu fans also go to shows without Hanyu.

Not to crazy about Med's programs. Personally I dislike jazz, but SP might be ok. The FS? Soft sultry version would be fine, but it's David Wilson doing the choreos. It'll be super boring probably. Geez, I can't wait until the start of the season to see if I will find Med or Zagi enjoyable at all. At least there's high probability of Zagi being spunky with her warhorse, Med will be Wilsoned. All hope in the Japanese, but holy crap, there's lots of David Wilson in there too.

So are we just waiting for Hanyu to tell us his programs for the season? Or is there anyone else we are waiting on? Hanyu is being a tease having his fans wait like this.

Not Finlandia Trophy, the I’m talking about Cup of Finland, which was one of the GP assignments that Hanyu was assigned to. Also, that’s a good point, hardcore Hanyu fans wouldn’t have gone anyways. Still, the fact that shows headlined by Shoma struggle to sell tickets is telling.

I feel like Figure skatings popularity is a bubble that’s going to burst once Hanyu is gone. Love him or hate him, he’s the one people want to see. Just like how Figure skating lost its popularity in NA once Yamaguchi and Kwan were gone, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a similar thing happen when Hanyu leaves the scene.

Yuzuru always waits to announce his programs either at summer ice shows or in August on media day, which is when all the media people are allowed into TCC to film and interview him. Since he didn’t reveal them at FAOI, we’ll be waiting until sometime in August for his.

r587 Yes, I assumed you were talking about Cup of Finland, especially since you mentioned Russia too, I made a typo.

I don't know, first there was Mao, then there was Hanyu. FS popularity might drop after Hanyu retires but unlike US, Japan has lots of great skaters in the making, female ones at the moment, who will keep getting medals and keep the interest alive, so it won't die completly, I think. Perhaps they will find another star. I feel like Wakaba is charismatic enough, but she'd need to keep winning.

There were many ice shows this year and The Ice will only take place in Osaka and Aichi, so unless you live in those regions, you'll have to take a bullet train or plane and stay in a hotel. Chen and Zagitova have some fans but they already appeared with Shoma in Stars on Ice.

Beverly Smith met with Takahashi in Toronto.

Well I wish Dai the best. I would love to interview him and ask questions such as:

Are you aware of some of your fans harassment on sns?

Do you want to compete with Hanyu again?

Why do you and Hanyu avoid each other?

I would love Hanyu to be asked similar questions in regards to Dai.

Keiji Tanaka about Takahashi's return and his programs for the new season (he'll be in Finland with Yuzuru)

Drodz is having tryouts with Abachkina according to rumours. He has also apparently left Krilova for Zhulin.

And yes, Abachkina seems to have split from her new partner after one local competition

They are not listed anymore as Subs at JGP. They also don't appear in Masters de France entry list

At MdF also no Esbrat/Novoselov increasing the split rumours.

r588 Those are some of the most populated regions in Japan, though.

R590 on one of your questions, I read an interview with Dai when he announced his comeback (the day before Yuzuru received that medal of honor thing from Shinzo Abe lol) -- anyway he said he didn't think he could ever beat the Olympic medalists (whom he didn't name lol) but it was his dream to be on the same practice/warmup ice with them. I found that to be an odd comment for some reason, but I guess it's really not. He just would love to be in the same competition as them, I guess he means, because that would mean he'd succeeded?

Anyway, it is what it is. At least both Mura and Murakami have retired this year, both 27 years old, so in a way, there's a vacancy compared to last year, with only Tomono coming on strong at Worlds to be in contention.

R593 Kansai and Chubu are next to each other. Fans in Osaka would be willing to make the trip to Nagoya and vice versa, but fans from other regions including big cities like Tokyo and Yokohama would have to think twice, especially if they had gone to other shows. They're relying entirely on certain regional fans, which seems risky for a big show when those fans would've seen their skaters at Prince Ice World or Stars on Ice . It wouldn't be so bad if the tickets had been cheaper, but now people who purchased tickets are unhappy that other people will be going for free or with a discount and better seats.

I think the fed will move onto promoting the younger Honda sisters (who will be performing at The Ice) and maybe even Marin again if she improves, if Uno and Tomono don't work out. Kihira and Wakaba are finally getting recognized but don't have as much photogenic appeal as the Hondas who also have a very famous sister.

I want to see Takahashi and Hanyu locked in a room and watch their body language towards each other lol.

Related thread

Where have you guys gone?

I need closure.

Ok. 600. Done.