Figure Skating - Part XVII

Old thread

This is what Orser said about Elizabet Tursynbaeva:

[quote] Elizabet’s problem is that she’s small. Very little. I do not mean age, but purely external data. In order not to look as a junior on ice, competing with such skater as Gabrielle (Daleman), Kaetlyn (Osmond) or Mariah Bell, my athlete has to do a bloody amount of extra work. But according to the marks, sometimes I see that they continue to perceive Tursynbaeva as a little girl.

On Jun-hwan Cha:

[quote] I have a Korean boy in the group who performed excellently at the Olympic Games and in all respects should become a prominent figure in men’s single skating. But the Korean federation has hopes on him for the next four years and did not deem it necessary to send him to Milan.

Cha's youthful looks aren't the problem according to Orser. Most of the top men look young for their age anyway, including non-Asian skaters like Kolyada. Tursynbaeva doesn't just look young. She looks prepubescent.

How does Gracie Gold fit into the USFSA envelope money? I thought Wagner retired?

Some 65 year old East European judges probably mistook Cha for a girl and thought they were judging the ladies event and gave him Dabin Choi's marks

R3 Lol I wish I was kidding, but Cha was pressured before the Olympics to get a haircut so he wouldn't be mistaken for a girl...

This pairs season looks like it's going to be seriously underwhelming. I'm looking forward to James/Cipres (and their choreo from Guillaume!), Sui/Han, and curious to see what Trankov does with Tarasova/Morozov. Otherwise it seems like a very lackluster field. No S/K, S/M, Marchei/Hotarek, etc. I would like to see the NK pair and Peng/Jin step up...the US pairs I have no faith in, as always.

Whoa. Just saw Cha's photoshoot for Vogue Korea. He's gotten tall! Good looking kid.

PCS for Cha at Olympics

SP

Spanish judge placed him #9

French judge: #10

Canadian judge: #12

Chinese judge: #13

Japanese judge #15

Australian judge. #17

Uzbekistan judge: #19

Russian judge: #20

Latvian judge:#24

FS

Chinese judge: #7

USA judge: #10

Japanese judge: #13

Russian judge: #17

Latvian judge: #17

Czech judge: #17

Israeli judge: #18

Uzbek judge: #18

Kazakh judge: #18

How do y'all feel about Jackie Wong? Does he do figure skating twitter for a living? I found his latest tweet on Gracie Gold to be weirdly condescending, even though he was trying to sound benevolent about it...

R8: Wong was okay until he started drinking the kool-aid.

I like Jackie. He's not perfect, nobody is. I don't give a shit about Gracie either way & not a big fan of generalizations about "the skating world," but it's just a fucking tweet. Who cares.

Mirai Nagasu is sassing it up on MSNBC with Ari Melber.

Girl, you made it.

It doesn't reveal much, but Krasnozhon had been living with the Cains for five years:

[quote] “I decided to switch coaches because I feel like I want to try something new and switch up my training atmosphere,” said the 18-year-old, who also moved into his own apartment.

[quote] After staying with the friends of his parents for a few months, Krasnozhon then lived with his coaches Peter and Darlene Cain for nearly five years.

[quote] The skater is well aware that he has been criticized by fans and other people in both Russian and the U.S. who didn’t like the fact that he switched countries. “I know a lot of people don’t like me because I am skating for the U.S. and some people are saying, ‘He’s taking U.S. spots.’ I read that on Golden Skate (forum) and it’s really funny. I love reading that stuff!” the 2017 U.S. National Junior Champion shared. He also finds critical posts on Russian internet forums. “Some people say: ‘Alexei has left his country, abandoned his country.'” But Krasnozhon doesn’t let these comments distract him.

r6 Wow, in those photos Cha looks like full-fledged kpop star. That's some majorly pretty face.

I think the lack of PCS for Cha might be the result of his a) inconsitency b) lack of appearances due to injury. I hate it, but apparently quads matter. If he starts turning in clean-ish programs with quads, his PCS should go up slowly. His SP especially was great, the kid's got the goods.

Something that might help him would be his federation's support but apparently Korean fed is an absolute mess, under investigation for embezzlement and harassment, chef director resigned etc. It's probably also the reason why Korea passed on the GP chance.

But anyway, he's only turning 17 in October, as long as his growth doesn't screw his jumps up completely. Orser has been talking a bit about it a bit in interviwes, and it seems that he's big on off-ice training in order to strenghten the muscles and he rcommends easier training load if growing causes pain. However, easier training load is something feasible for a junior Gogolev, not neccesarily for GP and Worlds attending Cha. Nam is 5'11" and we know what happened to his consistency, but Conrad Orzel is 6' and has been seen jumping 4F so let's hope Cha, who's almost 5'10" and might hit 6' fares well.

Krasnozhon's skating just doesn't do anything for me. It's so heavy - I really can't see Krasnozhon breaking through amongst the US guys, not to mention the international guys. I just feel that his talent is mediocre compared to others. In exhibitions, we can see that Nathan Chen does know how to skate to the music, so there is potential for him to become more than a jumper, but Krasnozhon... eh. Even his technical elements are meh.

Golden Skate is the worst, regardless of how you feel about Krasnozhon's talent, he is not stealing anyone's spot. Good for him that he decided to skate for America. If anything, he was the only one winning titles for America during the Junior Grand Prix. He has total Bi face and total big dick face too. The camel spin needs a lot of help though.

So what's with Danny O'shea ?? He finally starts posting pictures of people and not just his dog. 27, appears to have no love life, no friends...

Is he closeted and that's why he appears lost all the time? Oh Danny, just come out and be the best gay you can be.

I always got the impression GoldenSkate is more constrained than FSUniverse.

On FSU the comments about Krasnozhon were about how many girlfriends he changed during last year, how the tone of his social media posts on his private snapchat in Russian were different from his American IG, etc

r16 how was the tone different?

R17

tbh, it wasn't anything particularly shocking. He just sounded like the typical straight jock.

from FSU:

"He posts different things on US-based and Russia-based social media. I am sure he knows "going hunting animals for fun" and reposting comments about girls like "I don't care if you (a girl) are fat or thin, as long as you're is not fat", will not fly well with the US crowd."

"To be exact it was girlfriendS until recently, and many fast expensive cars... He thinks he is so cool and hot.. One post (on the russian site) said "Women don't need to get too drunk (before having sex) because all man are handsome" which is a counter-phrase to "she is so ugly i had to get drunk to sleep with her" :D ... it's not a crime, of course... but it says something to me about his "level of culture".

"It's not where the photo is from, it's what he posts for US audience and for Russian audience. With anti-gun sentiments today and anti-hunting, maybe he does not want to take a chance for social back lash..... Russians will think he is cool, and Americans may not think it is too cool.. and that's two-faced."

r18 so he's kinda a macho redneck at heart despite being a skater but tries not to appear be one? Well, I guess there are worse crimes, but, like his skating, nothing endearing.

Well, I guess at the moment Nathan will have to be the personality one to root for, despite the jump-crossover-crossover-crossover-jump-handwaving-crossover-crossover-crossover-crossover jump.

You don't have to root for any American skater, you know. I haven't like any of them since Johnny (and I don't care for his personality now - but he was enjoyable to watch at the time).

GERMANY- Team envelopes

TEAM A (which consists in the former Olympians)

Nicole Schott

Paul Fentz

Aljona Savchenko/Bruno Massot

Annicka Hocke/Ruben Blommaert

Panagiotis Polizoakis (even if he's partnerless)

TEAM B

Nathalie Weinzierl, Lea Johanna Dastich, Anna Christin Marold

Jonathan Hess

Haase/Seegert; Thomalla/Kunkert

Muller/Dieck, Koch/Nuchtern, Urban/Steffan, Schwendinger/Wunderlich

Music choices 2018/19:

Nicole Schott is doing something from Ghost the Musical as SP and something French by Lara Fabian as FS. Ouch!

Paul Fentz is keeping Game of Thrones because he's under illussion his FS is so popular among skating fans

Hocke/Blommaer are doing Malaguena. I can see him selling it, but not her.

r21 Or Paul Fenz can't affort a new FS or he doesn't want to risk learning a new program when there ere new rules to navigate around.

Tbh Lara Fabian is an improvement on Shindler's List, that was one boring program.

Just checked krasnozhons sns and he seems unpleasant at least. Kolyada definitely stands out among Russian male skaters, genuine and nice.

Kolyada is dull as dishwater though. Aliev & Voronov have great personalities. Krasnozhon never competed for Russia internationally so I wouldn't consider him an example of anything.

R22 yes, some cost saving strategy is there. Fentz always keeps one program for 2 years. Only in 2011/12 he had two brand new programs. Otherwise, yes, he recycles one from previous season.

But he really thinks the Game of Thrones one is popular. He received a few articles (like the one linked below) after his Olympic performance about his music choice. I have to search again for the quote he gave to ISU after Worlds but he basically said lots of people from America wrote him about GoT and therefore, he will keep it for another season.

I love Kolyada - I think he's got a wicked sense of humor that comes through even with the language barrier. Wish his jumps were more consistent - they're fabulous when he's on.

Why are Voronav and Aliev not genuine and/or nice, R23? (Don’t know any other Russian male skaters.)

Wakaba Higuchi has unveiled her new SP at the Aqua Cup yesterday (6/30): "Energia" by Sofi Tukker. 2A, FCSp, CCoSp, 1Lz, 3F2T, StSq, LSp. Fast-paced with lots of dancing. This could be very interesting. A nice change from all of the war horses we'll be seeing next season.

Wakaba said she wanted to try something new and asked Shae Lynn Bourne to choreograph a SP that would allow her to dance and move like one of Ashley Wagner's programs. No video as of now but we do know what her costume looks like.

I'm not saying they are not nice, it just Kolyada leaves a much better impression than others. Aliev is your typical angsty teenager who likes to post deep thoughts, somewhat like Zhou. It's not bad, but not especially good either. Don't know much about Voronov, but saw a video on Instagram where he called an exercising 13-14 year old Zagitova hot as a joke and it just felt weird. Also, for krasnozhon I meant the upbringing not the country they represent.

Oh what Voronov WTF. Gross.

r25 Well, perhaps with casual viewers it's more popular than with figure skating fans, so it was a good choice for Olys. I must confess that the only thing I remember about that program was the fact that it was to the Games of Thrones but I've never watched the show so nothing in his skate actually stood out to me. Oh well, I guess I'll get another season to appreciate it, lol.

r24. I like Kolyada, both as a person and as a skater. He seems quiet and a bit shy but genuine. His skating apoeals to me more often than Aliev's too. Personality-wise, though, I will agree that Voronov tops them all. Even if he makes bad jokes about underaged girls.

Kolyada's movements are beautiful. It's painful to watch him fall but he skates so pretty, he deserves better.

Just got word that Dai has announced a return to competitive skating. Anyone know what's up?

R33 the announcement on his website said that he was motivated to return when he worked as a commentator for 2017 jpn nationals and he wants to being a sense of completion to his career that he didn't feel when he retired. I loved his skating and felt he was screwed on a number of occasions but this seems like not the best idea. I guess it depends on what he wants to get out of it.

Daisuke is training with Mishin(!) so he must be serious about wanting to get his jumps back. Hey, if Carolina can still compete with her weak-ass tech then give me Daisuke. I know the men's field is different, but after the worst Worlds podium of all time I'm so ready for his beautiful skating to come back. Shoma just does not compare for me, never will. And the less said about the other medalists the better.

I agree that was the worst worlds podium ever and I despise the jumping bean programs but I don't see Dai being competitive in this era no matter how wonderful his artistry. It will be a nice treat for fans but he could do in this ice shows without the pressure of competition. Hope he's not doing this because, as others have suggested, he's just craving adoration and fame. Maybe I just don't understand the lure of competition for these athletes but it never seemed like an environment in which he thrived.

Competing is totally different from skating in shows. Serious athletes get addicted to the adrenaline and there is of course the satisfaction in achieving a goal, which isn't always a medal. It's not for everyone but for someone who competed as long as he did and managed to rack up a pretty impressive amount of medals, clearly he did thrive on it to some degree.

Very interesting timing there, Takahashi. He's having a press conference tonight Japan time, the night before Hanyu is to receive the People’s Honor Award, which some of Takahashi's fans have been protesting. I don't think he could have continued his commentating job. Fuji TV had to bring in someone else just to interview Hanyu during the Olympics after Takahashi had interviewed all of the other skaters and people noticed. Hanyu and Takahashi haven't been able to appear on television or in ice shows together for years.

This will be interesting for Uno because Takahashi's crazier fans used to accuse him of copying their favorite skater, but turned around and began to support him after he became senior and went up against Hanyu. With Takahashi back, I hope they won't turn on Uno again. Then you have the president of the Japanese federation who is still Seiko Hashimoto, a politician who practically sexually assaulted Takahashi four years ago. It's going to be chaos in Japan although I wouldn't mind seeing another program like Blues for Klook from him. But Nobunari Oda seems more competition ready to me than Takahashi.

R38 I am a fan of Dai's skating and know some of his fans are batshit crazy but I don't know anything about his personality. Hard for me to imagine that he could seriously be that petty but what do I know. Japan's mens field after uno and Hanyu is problematic (esp. compared to their women). Shouldn't JFS turned their attention to that instead?

R39 The People's Honor Award is one of the biggest news stories of the year and the entire country knows Hanyu will be receiving the award on Monday. There is absolutely no way the timing could be a coincidence. Takahashi has been known to be petty toward other male skaters and especially toward Hanyu. The JFS should focus on new talent to take Uno and Hanyu's place after they retire. Tomono did look promising at Worlds.

Wow, Takahashis comeback is number one trending on Twitter Japan

Sometimes I wonder what would Hanyu do when the new genius appears. Will he be more like Plushenko or Takahashi

here is my comment on skating. it does not warrant over 600 freaking comments. and '12 threads. really, who gives a flip? oh, 600 of yas.....

R42 I feel like he won't be quite as generous as Plushenko. He's already had a number of interviews where Uno would stand right there and praise him to no end, and he'd just say "it's OUR time now" or "he has nerves of steel" and never really compliment his skating. Maybe because he's legitimately threatened by Uno? Maybe he'll mellow out with maturity, who knows.

The timing is clearly not a coincidence. Poor Hanyu. Never seen a pettiest and more pathetically jealous skater than Takahashi.

Is Plush generous in his praise of other skaters besides Hanyu, especially when he was still competing against them (not a rhetorical question, I don't remember)? Hanyu seems very specific about the praise he dishes out - Jason's spins, Javier's and Boyang's jumps, Meds consistency. I find such praise more sincere if not rapturous. Maybe he's just pissed Shoma and his UR jumps beat out Javi for the silver.

On what level is Daisuke Takahashi going to compete? Can he even attend worlds? I mean, I would watch him rather than shoma's boring programs, but is it even possible for him to return at this point

Watch and learn kids. This is how you steal the spotlight from a lesser talent.

I didn't expect this comeback.

It is not like Kostner who skates in a country without any other national challenger.

Dai's FS is apparently choreographed by Benoit Richaud.

I guess he can beat Tomono and Tanaka even without quads if he is clean on triples.

R47 He could appear at the Japan Open and NHK. There's speculation that he'll retire at nationals, which will take place in his adopted hometown of Osaka , a la Tatsuki Machida. If he makes Worlds, he could retire there.

r50. I would have thought "return to competitive skating" meant more than doing one or half a season...

I wouldn't be that surprised if the announcement came from Oda, he actually seems to have become a better skater sincd retirement and dven acquired a 4Lz.

No matter his character, insecurity, jealoudy, whatever, Daisuke was one of the most watchable skaters ever. As much as I love Hanyu, I do get where people's preference for Daisuke comes from. BUT He is 32 now and the quad revolution has already happened. The amount of work he would have to put in in order to be competitive is insane, if doable at all (I remember a champion ski jumper talking about his decision to retire: the amount of training he had to when started nearing thirty was dispropotionate to the results) and I don't think he has a chance to podium. 4CCs and Worlds top 10 maybe, if all really goes well. As long as he's fine with that, I suppose it would be great to see him.

What did he say? Did new scoring system factor in his decision?

(holy shit I can't believe this off season)

How old is Takahashi?

32. Born in March 1986

Takahashi's fans almost caused Hanyu to quit skating in 2013. They also started the rumors picked up by the tabloids and harassment that drove him to contemplate suicide which he talked about at his ice show. I hope the media doesn't ask him about Takahashi tomorrow but that has to be why USM and Takahashi decided to make the announcement today. You can read the English version of the announcement on Takahashi's official page. He said the 2017 Japan Figure Skating Championships inspired him to return.

[quote]I hope the media doesn't ask him about Takahashi tomorrow but that has to be why USM and Takahashi decided to make the announcement today.

Hanyu's media-savvy. He'll just give a stock answer about being happy to see his sempai back and if asked if he'll beat Takahashi in competition, he'll just say he always aims to win and will do his best. I almost wish they'd just ask him "do you think Daisuke Takahashi will be a threat to anybody on top?" but then he'd probably just say that all skater fight against their oen weakness or somesuch.

[quote]He said the 2017 Japan Figure Skating Championships inspired him to return.

Was 2017 Nationals a paryicularly bad mess? I only remember Hanyu was out with injury and Uno won.

[quote]They also started the rumors picked up by the tabloids and harassment that drove him to contemplate suicide

Oh shut the fuck up. Hanyu is a big time drama queen.

R55 I don't think 2017 Nationals were particularly bad.

Apart from having 3 Les Miserables FS in a row

Nothing stellar either. A sort of meh.

Uno wasn't at his top. In the FS he had one fall and IIRC a couple of messy landings.

Mura was cleanish.

Tanaka did a couple of messing landings in the FS and ended up with 2 jumps in REP because he couldn't attach the planned combos. However, he landed a quad he never tried in competition. And that guaranteed his Olympic spot (along with a soldi SP the day before).

r56 Especially that he didn't even say it, it's only his craziest fans that insist on this little tidbit.

Can we go back to the bracelets? At least that was somewhat funny.

Will Takahashi sort out his hair color before coming back?

I would deduct 0.25 in PCS if he shows up blonde.

I'm glad for him actually, he seems lost and if it what it takes to get a piece of mind hes doing the right thing

The Hanyu ubers are tedious and creepy. The world does not revolve around him. He's a grown man and an incredibly strong athlete, not some delicate flower who needs to have everything done in his favor so as not to upset his fragile emotional state. Like everyone else on the planet, he needs to deal with the fact that other people exist and can carry on with their lives however they please, whether that takes the spotlight off him for half a second or whether it means he has to meet them at training/competitions/etc. and perhaps feel some slight discomfort on occasion, like any other normal human being. Suck it up, buttercup!

Agree. But also I don't understand those fans that scrutinize every interaction of hanyu and Fernandez. Some of them are also the same people who cry about hanyus feelings(regarding ge issues) and so on. Also, they make it sound like other skaters trying to jump 4a are personally offending him, wtf

I took a break from following skating during most of Takahashi's career so I had to look up his record. He certainly didn't exit competitive skating at his peak. Odd that he's coming back now. Skaters really need to do a better job of planning ahead for life after skating.

As for Hanyu, one of the skaters who competed with him in juniors called him a "ruthless" competitor. You don't win two OGMs by being a delicate flower. That's why Orser finds Yuzu such an enigma and has repeatedly said he doesn't really understand him--off the ice he's a sweetheart but on the ice he's killer. He's also one of the most intelligent and charismatic skaters I've ever seen.

Sounds like Takahashi will take part in Regionals, aims at Nationals, "doesn't want to disturb a junior skater" - so he might not even take the NHK host pick. He really sounds like doesn't really care about placements all that much but wants to go out with a good skate.

The tabloids and suicide talk is real, that show was televised and you can see it for yourself or read the transcript. The 2013 talk of quitting because of Takahashi's fans was also reported by a major paper at that time. His friend being stalked and unable to leave her home for school due to the tabloids was reported and Hanyu addressed it then, too. His physical therapist also became a target last season and spoke about how it affected him at a conference last week (can provide receipts for that, too). His mother has also been a target. The problem is the fans attacking the people around him, not Hanyu himself. It's not Takahashi's fault and they won't compete against each other until nationals but it is a real problem.

Hanyu Ubers might be tedious and annoying but what R65 is describing is next level stupid and insane. Who has time to do this shit? Like him or not, like his style or not, there is nothing about Hanyu that should inspire this idiocy. In fact, I can't think of one skater, even the ones that say things we like to make fun of, who deserves something like that.

On a more positive note, I'm starting to really appreciate deniss' skating. Any news on his programs for next season?

Hanyu himself mentioned the suicide thing, also calling him a drama queen when Takahashi is clearly the biggest drama queen and insecure little bitch this sport has known is a joke. The timing of the annoucement alone is perfectly intentional to try and shadow the news of Hanyu receiving the prize tomorrow because Takahashi is pissed off that Hanyu is the first figure skater to get it. He gives the gay community in Japan a bad rep with his whiny entitled prick behaviour.

I agree that Takahashi's timing is no accident. Having to watch Hanyu win a second OGM and then be celebrated as the GOAT must have been agony for him.

Takahashi

SP by David Wilson

FS by Benoit Richaud

I would like to go back to the halcyon days of just DL level meanness, like making fun of Tessa's nose or Zhou's insta. No need to be vicious about anyone's friends or family. I guess we were a little mean to Mama Zhou.

David Wilson working with Dai?? Yuzu says, et tu Brute?

I'm kidding. I hope Hanyu realizes that it doesn't matter -- he HAS the two Olympic gold medals and this Shinzo Abe honor that Takahashi can only dream of - and envy - not to mention the juicy commentating role seems to have been snapped up by Oda, who practically worships Hanyu. I think Hanyu would also be good on tv because he's quick-witted (unless Dai, who's just another headcase...)

He reminds me of Patrick Chan - personality and skating, actually.

* crap I meant UNLIKE Dai -- who has said that he's not cut out for tv work - that it's just too hard. Cry me a river, Dai...

Summary of Takahashi's press conference: -Last year's nationals inspired him to return. -He started talking to his coach at the end of December. -He started practicing in April. -He's researching Nathan Chen's jumps to improve his own. -He thinks he needs two different types of quads and feels his jump practice is going better than it did during the second half of his career. -He contacted other skaters like Mao and Oda at the last minute to let them know he was returning. -Nationals is his goal for now. He wants to practice and skate with the last group. -If he's invited to an international competition, he will think about it. He doesn't want to interfere with the younger skaters.

r74. I'm really curious whether he'll be able to break out 2 types if quads. I believe he had a 4T when he used to compete, did he havd anything else in training?

Lol. Takahashi really can't help himself. Even mentioning nationals 2017 when Hanyu didn't compete as the motivation for him to come back. I find it funny how all Hanyu western fans unlike the Japanese ones who are annoyed, are being naive or voluntarily obtuse and saying things like "so nice to see Dai Chan compete again. I'm sure Yuzu is happy to have him back." Nothing about the dubious timing and statement release. I guess you need to know Japanese subtlety to catch what an affront to Hanyu the whole thing is. Reminds me of the Misha/Medvedeva situation. International fans didn't get how upset Hanyu was.

r76 You know, 3/4 of your post is crazy speak but I do agree about the timing. What I don't get is what Takahashi will get out of this. Hanyu will get his fancy award, be shown on the evening news anyway, then hop on the plane to Canada and leave the whole media circus behind. It seems rather pointless?

R77 Free press. Takahashi's news station is already discussing how Hanyu's going to be asked about the comeback during the press conference for his award.

r78. Well, I can't really blame the guy for knowing how to get free press.

This isn't the first time this has happened. Miki Ando announced she had had a baby right before Hanyu's big press conference regarding his contract with ANA. Hanyu joked he wasn't the father. Maybe he'll answer with a sense of humor again.

I am a western fan of Hanyu and I realize what Takahashi is doing. I don't believe this is a coincidence either. I believe he calculated when to make this big announcement.

Maybe I'm naive, but I truly don't understand how this could be intentional. Does this really give him that big of a media coverage compared to doing it another time? It's still a pretty big deal regardless of the timing. And I genuinely don't understand how someone could be outwardly petty if this is calculated. Could it be that he didn't think it would be big deal? Does it take away a lot of coverage from Hanyu?

I think what bothered me most was that Takahashi made a point to say he was studying Nathan Chen's technique to help him with his own quads. Doesn't Hanyu get higher GOE on his quads than Chen?

I haven't followed these people for years, but I've wondered why Hanyu exults about Plushenko especially but also Johnny Weir and Stephane Lambiel. When it comes to skaters he admires, I don't think he's often said Takahashi, though maybe he did years ago and something happened... Shoma says Takahashi is an idol. I realize Shoma is young but still... just to be politically correct, so to speak, you'd think Hanyu would speak of admiring Takahashi more than he does, being his countryman and all.

That said, who knows what went on behind the scenes that led Hanyu to avoid mentioning Dai - and he certainly has the right to admire the others and say so. I hope it doesn't upset Hanyu too much, and I do think it's intentional (especially after the Chen mention and the 2017 Nationals, where Hanyu was absent), but I don't see how it matters much, compared to the government award -- Hanyu doesn't seem to care about getting boatloads of press attention anyway (although he gets it nonethless). Like so what? An old has been is coming back... zzzzzzz.

R75 Dai had an unreliable 4t and tried but ur a 4f at wc (2010?). Maybe he's banking on a high PCS and clean triples.

I’d like to fuck Takahashi in the ass, and I’m not even into Asians.

I'm curious as to how Dai will handle the scrutiny. SNS has taken the FS fandom to a new level of cray unseen in his day. He's seen it from the sidelines but how will he react when he's at the center of it? Is he the kind to love any kind of attention, even if negative? I'm excited to see his new programs. Not excited by all the stupid drama, mostly created by some insane fans, but maybe not discouraged by Dai. R85 lol thank you for reminding me why I come to DL for FS news.

Saying he was studying Nathan's quads was definitely an intentional dick move on Dai's part. One thing this American has learned from her fellow Hanyu fans is that Japanese skating fandom is made up of multiple factions who hate each other's guts. Given that, I'm not surprised that Hanyu prefers Plush, Weir and Lambiel to older Japanese skaters.

Maybe he's been studying Chen's quads because Chen jumps more of them and survives? Just a conjecture, of course... maybe it hurts their pride to admit that they learn from their own kohai and it's easier to admit to learning from foreigners. Especially since said kohai were people you watched grow up and inspired and are maybe threatened by? I feel like Yuzu is a lot more generous with praising foreigners too than his own countrymen. Maybe it's a different level of competitiveness.

He could have been inspired by anything at 17 Nats though. It could be watching Satoko come back from a devastating injury. Or watching them fight for an Olympic spot. Or just watching Shoma crush the competition. Of course saying these things could be intentional, but I guess I have a hard time believing that someone would calculate such tiny petty detail and count on someone reading deeply into it and getting pissed off. It just makes more sense to believe that not everything revolves around Hanyu's fans' sensibilities.

My biggest question is how would this change the Dai - Shoma dynamic? If Dai really IS as fragile and petty as some say, will Shoma be collateral damage?

R88 I'm one of the people who didn't think someone could be that petty but the Chen comment jumped out at me. Dont know if that makes him as big a dick as some people think, but whatever. I'm sick of the stupidity already and the season hasn't even started. Yes, I want to know what will happen to Dai/Shoma. Hopefully Shoma will just remain his usual oblivious underrotating self and I think Seiko Hashimoto has enough cock to take on both at once.

Ooooh, if Takahashi takes the NHK host spot, he will go directly against Shoma. That would be fun!

For an idol and a follower, it's funny how different personality-wise the two of them are, Takahashi sensitive and insecure, Shoma oblivious and unfazed. Skating-wise... I'll take Takahashi any day, petty or not. I hope he comes back in good form.

The timing is clearly intentional and you have to be beyond naive to think otherwise. As if announcing it a few days or weeks later would make a difference. Now however Takahashi will have the twisted pleasure of seeing what should have been all Hanyu news be split with news about his own announcement and probably Hanyu himself will be asked about it. I don't think it's much about getting free press as it is to undermine Hanyu's achievement. And before you ask who would be petty enough to do so, well yes Takahashi is stupidly petty and mad with jealousy about Hanyu. Too bad for him. The 2 OGMs and national level recognition will always be Hanyu's and not his. There is nothing more unattractive than an older guy being petty towards a younger one and refusing to let go. I also wonder how things will go with Shoma. Hopefully Shoma can see the real face of his idol through this experience. The only reason Takahashi likes him is because Shoma continuously praised him. That's all the peacock cares about.

r91 Are you the one who insisted Medvedeva went to Orser because of Hanyu? Just wondering, there are disturbing similarities.

R82 The award is bigger and rarer than getting knighted in the UK. It will be covered as a top story by all news stations and at least one network will do an hour long special. Takahashi's return has been in the works for some time according to the man himself. There is no way he and his management just happened to schedule their press conference the night before Hanyu's ceremony. It is petty but also savvy.

Hanyu has named other Japanese skaters as influences, such as Arakawa, Asada, Mura and Minoru Sano. He developed his 3A watching Asada. Hanyu was most influenced by the Salt Lake City and Torino Olympics. Takahashi didn't become a big star until 2010 when Hanyu went senior. Hanyu did compliment him a number of times while he was still skating competitively. Uno and Takahashi train in the same region (Kansai) and are under the same management. Hanyu is from Northern Japan, so never trained with the superstars who are mainly from Kansai and moved to Canada when he was 17. As far as I know, there was no bad blood between Hanyu and Takahashi until 2012 Worlds.

R93 what happened at 2012 Worlds?

Dai is working with Alexei Mishin so it makes sense to study Nathan because his technique is from that school..

r93 I only heard about some ugly incident involving Takahashi's fans at 2012 Japanese Nationals, not Worlds, but I'm not ckear on details.

r95. But that fact stands in opposition to the "evil jealous petty Takahashi" narrative.

Time to block the crazy Hanyu speak. We certainly have two or three crazies hijacking this thread.

Anyway, skating cattiest queen has made a new video.

R94 It's incredibly stupid but Takahashi said he was hurt that the audience cheered for Hanyu during the medal ceremony more than they cheered for him. The mentally unstable fans decided that from then on, they would never cheer or clap for Hanyu again, yell Takahashi's name during Hanyu's practices to psyche him, and boo him during national competitions and just escalated from there.

R99 oh good god you cannot be serious.

There are plenty of people who jump better quads than Nathan, I don't see how this could possibly reach to him trying to piss off Hanyu in particular. Him announcing now doesn't minimize the honor of Hanyu's award. Him enjoying watching Nationals doesn't mean he enjoyed it precisely because Hanyu was missing. This feels more like Hanyu fans reaching to read into Dai to make him an evil character than Dai plotting his life around pissing off Hanyu. Yeah Dai's fans, if true, did some petty shit but a lot of Hanyu fans' overprotectiveness is also kinda cray. They're both just trying to live their lives, but the fan drama dials it to a whole new level.

But if it's true that Dai's fans are mostly crazies that moved onto Uno, it will be interesting to see how they react in a Dai vs. Shoma competition. I hope poor Shoma doesn't see a new face of his idol and get disappointed, he seems like a genuinely nice guy who's generous with praise and truly humble.

Carreira/Ponomarenko music choices

Rhythm dance: Jealousy Tango and Yo Soy Maria

Free Dance: Tokio Myers Medley

Both choreos by Igor Shpilband & Pasquale Camerlengo

We should keep the count how many Piazzola for RD

As usual Ice Dance opens the season of International competitions with the Lake Placid event at the end of July. I guess we will see some of the (few) teams still training in USA taking part.

Olympic season has probably been tiring for many teams. So some are starting preparations a bit later and therefore not ready to debut a program in July (even if Lake Placid outings are often pretty raw)

Lake Placid will be first ISU recognized event using the +/-5 GOE. Out of US summer compeitions only Lake Placid and Philadelphia are considered by ISU. Anyway we will the first Challenger in early August. But being in Thailandia, I don't expect many non Asian skaters going there.

The psycho Yuzu stan who keeps posting all this shit about Daisuke and Evgenia really has no sense of self awareness. Have you ever looked in a mirror, you hypersensitive, obsessive, whiny creeper? Don't you think that writing essay-length posts about someone's psychological makeup (oh, the irony) and examining all of their SNS with a fine-toothed comb is just a BIT much??? If you are really Japanese, thank god most of the Japanese FS fans I've gotten to know online & in person are nothing like you.

Daisuke can announce whatever the fuck he wants any damn day of the year. I'll take his "petty" hot ass and brilliant skating over the sexless midget Shoma forever.

R101 I agree with you insofar as I don't know a lot about Dai and will wait to judge his level of involvement and calculation in all this nonsense when the drama unfolds during the season. However, with respect to the fans, I wouldn't equate outright harassment on one side with overprotecticeness on the other. Both are annoying but one is actually trying to interfere with a competitor's safety (and that of his friends and family) and career. Didn't crazy fans at some point try to publish Hanyu's home address?

Eh, I don't know, I guess to me, protectiveness equals just respecting their privacy and not speculating at all, either negative OR positive, because the positive speculations also get creepy and go into fantasyland and just feed into the fictitious narrative that fans on either side want to create. Getting up in arms about how they're SO SURE that this is exactly what's going on with their fav skater might be seen as positive drama, but it's still drama. And often it goes into dragging other skaters for no reason and downplaying other peoples' achievements and spamming...oh boy, flashbacks to a fanatical stan over there in figure skating confessions tumblr.

Personally I have no dogs in this race because I don't know Dai and while I respect Hanyu's skills, his skating doesn't do it for me. But I'm pretty excited to see what all this hype is about, and whether Dai can live up to it. And for his sake, I hope he can. Regardless of what people like to speculate about his personality, it's a pretty brave thing to come back risking the potential embarrassment and public tut-tutting after all those years to give yourself the closure you want.

And after all the complaints I've seen of Uno not having his own style, it will be interesting to see where Dai's style ends and Uno's style begins. I wonder how they measure up to each other at this stage in terms of skating skills, speed, edges, and all that? For all his wonky jumps, Uno is a powerful skater.

If he skates clean, would Dai be superior to Tanaka in every way? Or would the new ISU rules also give Tanaka a fighting chance with clean triples? Personally I find Tanaka's skating cringey because it's so obvious how shy he is about it. For being so shy, Uno sure does get into the zone way better.

Am I the only one who found Kazuki Tomono to be juniorish and bland at Worlds? Wakaba was amazing, but Tomono was meh for me. I can see why Uno thought he had to carry Japan all by himself despite having both Tomono and Tanaka with him.

Loved the link R98 of The Skating Lesson video with Meghan Duhamel – I wish she was on every week instead of Jonathan (though I’m an oddball who loves Dave Lease, even when he makes me mad sometimes.)

Anyway, sweet Meghan even threw a bit of shade on Denis Ten (about how he'll withdraw from a main event and then end up doing a minor one in its place), also DL uber Misha Ge never meaning it when he "retires" - she loves Wakaba and hopes this is her season, wonders how Med and Zags will do w/new rules, ditto Satoko and her underrotations, lots of background about Keegan Messing, her hopes for Bradie, Vincent, Gabby, Dabin Choi, Rika Kihira, Mai, Kaori, etc... Oh and info on how Grand Prix assignments are made and TBD's get filled.

They go through all six grand prix’s lineups and her assessments of each event, so that was a lot of fun. Not much yacky yack time wasting like usual.

What's with these relatively older skaters, Daisuke T. and Gracie Gold trying to compete again. I think they're setting themselves up for disappointment and being seen like Fumi Suguri, Katarina Witt, and Caroline Zhang, staying too long in the game. Kostner being constantly overmarked, yet flubbing her jumps and showing declining skills, is not a shining example. I'd rather see Oda step back into the ring. At least he's been recently doing quad toe-triple toes, triple axel-triple toes, and jumps with both arms up. Dai hasn't even been in many shows, so what jumps has he been able to do? I liked his skating, but that was about 10 years ago. And yes, it seems strange that he made his big announcement right before Hanyu gets honored. Missing the fame and adulation, it seems.

R106 [quote] sweet Meghan even threw a bit of shade on Denis Ten (about how he'll withdraw from a main event and then end up doing a minor one in its place), also DL uber Misha Ge never meaning it when he "retires"

and the "we don't know how old he is " about Zhang

(because the rumour is that China Fed faked his documents when he was junior and he's older than what it is claimed).

Gracie Gold's not that old--she's 22 and hasn't had major injuries. If she can get back to her pre melt-down level, she'll easily beat anyone else in the U.S.--at least until Alysa Liu survives adolescence.

did Massot killed the cat of Italian Fed's president or whatever?

At World Championships victory ceremony, the flower prevention was done by the President of Italian Ice Federation. They only had one bouquet (for the woman). At 6m10 mark, he presents the flower to Aljona. And he barely looks at Massot. He shakes Morozov's and Cipres' hand even if he hasn't to deliver flowers to them.

It almost looks intentional to avoid eye contacts with Massot.

Oh God, when you think youre finally free from hearing Duhamels name she comes up with some shitty video.

Meghan looks more butch than Dave and Jonathan. Her hairstyles have been unflattering. I like her no nonsense candor though.

I.would love all figure skaters to skate to Josh Groban. His voice is beautiful. That is all.

Why is Tumblr and a lot of Twitter so obsessed with Japanese skaters? Is it mostly weeaboo teenage girls with a fetish for Yuzuru? It's creepy.

R114 I made this mistake myself last month. I like plenty of Japanese skaters but the teenage-serious ruminations on who is a cinnamon roll and must be protected, OTPs etc. were a bit much. Also lots of stuff on the V/M's beautiful love affair. I did find one blog that was helpful in explaining the technical aspects of skating, which was nice and another one that was pretty funny, someone blogging as one of Hanyu's fingers, but none of this is enough for me to venture back into that hellscape.

Why the obsession with Japanese skaters? Because, as Brian Orser said when he was in Boston for 2016 Worlds, it's the Japanese fans who are holding up figure skating, who are keeping it alive. Interest in the sport is on life support pretty much everywhere else. So it would seem logical that Japanese skaters get the most attention on social media. And many of us who are not Japanese also think they are, overall, the best single skaters in the world now.

What I'm finding amusing now are Jason Brown's super duper uber fans--some of whom I know are old enough to be his grandma--who have become obsessed with his "relationship" with Evgenia. You would think they would show more interest in whether the poor guy will ever attain consistent quads in competition. Or whether David Wilson will have him skating his FS to some ancient Broadway tune by Sinatra.

Lol wat. Japanese fans are holding up figure skating and keeping it alive? I think Team Canada and Russia would beg to differ. There is a world of figure skaters, great ones even, outside of retired and underage Japanese skaters in ice shows, but sure, whatever justifies a Japan fetish I guess.

But Japan is clearly holding up figure skating. Most skaters and officials are well aware of that fact. Russia and Canada are still great skating nations and will probably always remain so but even there the interest isn't as high as it used to be.

Japanese fans seem to travel more than the rest.

And their media follow the skaters around intensively. When Shoma was at Lombardia Trophy, the Japanese journalists and photographers almost outnumbered the Italians.

Eh, I don't go into Japanese Tumblr (do they use Tumblr?) so the Japan obsession I've were from English speaking teenagers who seem to glorify Hanyu and everything and everyone related to him as the pinnacle of perfection. I have no idea how Japanese fans interact online but among the western ones, there sure seems to be a pronounced cult following where YuZu Is PerFeCt and So Is EveRyThinG JaPan!

R106 Did Duhamel say the top 3 can also choose or suggest which of the 4-6 should compete with them? Also interesting about Li and Xie and the mystery behind how they were able to get an assignment.

R116 I didn't realize there were people out there who actually think he's straight. It seems like Orser isn't very invested in him but doing Tracy a favor.

She did say something like that, R121. That they can kind of negotiate an "easy" competition - or at least, say who they do or don't want to be in competition with. I don't remember her exact words and it's pretty long but she gave a lot of details on how the skaters have input, though I assume only the top ones - or maybe the ones in the same countries where the events are held.

R121 I hope that's not the case re Jason. He's a beautiful skater and has a lot to offer. I'd much rather watch him than some of the quadsters like Chen and Zhou.

Sometimes I get a little sad about the quad evolution because beautiful skaters like Jason and Takahashi and Kolyada are doomed to always lose to the likes of Chen and Zhou, who might as well just stand in place and do a jumping contest.

New episode in the Misha Ge saga. He posted a picture of his shoes signed by other skaters from faoi and of course there is what appears to be a message by or about Hanyu saying 'Yuzu mean "friend"'. Not sure what he is trying to achieve there. He only toured 2 cities with faoi and the last one was in Kanazawa where the whole photo drama happened so the signing of the shoes must have happened before. Why publish it now is a mystery.

Just read Artur Danielyan's interview, the second place junior in Sofia. He is so sensible and determined, can't help but root for him

Artur Danielian was a bright spot at the JGP, that alone made me root for him.

R126 just read the interview with Artur. Seems like a great kid. Had to use Google translate, which led to interesting results; like, what is a quadruple sheepskin? Apparently Boyang is still in China.

Oh Misha. I went looking on twitter for the drama but I don't see the photo. Did he take it down already?

Anna Pogorilaya is going to get married to that Latvian (?) ice dancer she's dating in about a week or so. Mind you, she's only 20 .. I guess Russians like getting married young.

Or maybe she wants a change of nationality ...

Wonder what kind of physical condition Pogosplat is in? Those falls were grim. I'll never understand how she made it up so far without someone teaching her to fall safely.

Gorgeous skater though--she actually straightens her leg unlike the Eteri girls

[quote] Also interesting about Li and Xie and the mystery behind how they were able to get an assignment.

ISU have't yet published the GP "general announcement" that usually contains all the "rules". Maybe they are trying to create a creative explantion on why Lie/Xie were eligible.

Feds have until mid August to confirm the assignments. I am wondering about a couple of ice dance teams selected. One is certainly on Ice Partner Search....

r130. I'm all for Pogo changing nationality if it'd allow her to compete for a few years longer.

Passing along Pogo info - nothing mentioned about nationality though. Would she have to sit out one or two seasons and/or be released by the Russian fed, even if she married a Latvian and changed her citizenship? (I think there's a translation problem but her having to skate under doctor's care sounds worrying - concussions?)

Anna is back according to International Figure Skating Club on FB:

Anna Pogorilaya told to RIA Novosti that she starts preparing for the season-2018/19. Anna plans to perform at the traditional autumn check skates of Russian national team.

"I have already started getting ready to the new season, but right now I am preparing to perform at a show in Japan, I work under the supervision of doctors.. I will have to train under their supervision till the end of my career in order not to allow critical cases. After autumn check skates I think to participate in some Challenger”.

According to Anna, programs for the new season have not been made yet, still she doesn’t know who will choreograph her programs, but Anna has got back her triple jumps, including lutz.

Credit: RIA Novosti, Anatoly Samokhvalov

I like watching Jonathan Beyer on This and That. He's so handsome, despite the queeniness.

R128, quad toe loop.

R132 Is it possible the Lie/Xie assignment was to appease the Chinese federation for the speed skating snub and judge suspensions or would the couple have already been assigned by the time the Chinese decided not to host the ISU events? Which teams are on your mind?

[quote]what is a quadruple [bold]sheepskin[/bold]

[quote]quad toe loop.

What the hell.

I am not sure the guy Pogosplat is marrying is actually Lativian himself. The girl he danced with was Latvian.

Here's the Olympic Channel stream of all the men's short programs at Pyeongchang at the link. They have the free skates up too. I didn't realize they were available till today (just in case anybody else will feel a void due to no World Cup matches tomorrow). Go, uh, England I guess! They're not doing too good in figure skating...

The Chinese judge in Pairs didn't see the suspension coming. One week after the the Pairs competition and just before the got notified that he was under investigation he posted on facebook:

"So honored in the Pyeongchang OWG , Really Amazing Experience ! Thanks everyone for everything , See you in 2022 Beijing OWG !"

And more interestingly it is who "liked" his post:

the referee of the Pair competition

the technical controller of the Pairs competition

the technical specialist of Pairs competition

the Israeli judge of Pairs competition

the Canadian judge of the Pairs competition

one member of the Assessment Commission

one member of the Single and Pairs Technical Committee

Sharon Rogers

Lorrie Parker

the technical specialist of the Men competition

the assistant technical specialist of the Ice Dance competition

the chair of Ice Dance Technical Committee

another member of the Ice Dance Technical Committee

USFSA Team Leader

UFSA Chair

a fellow judge even commented with "so proud of you"

[quote]Sometimes I get a little sad about the quad evolution because beautiful skaters like Jason and Takahashi and Kolyada

One of these things is not like the others...

R140 Wow, excellent sleuthing there. What else could their facebook activities reveal? Didn't the pairs judge's scores deviate less than Parker's? He'd received a warning before, but Parker's bias was already being reported by Buzzfeed before the Olympics, so I assume she had or should have received a warning as well. Sharon Rogers, too.

R139 I don't understand how they could hire a guy on the official Olympic Channel to commentate who literally knows nothing he's talking about. Can't pronounce names, doesn't know ages, has no grasp of the backgrounds... such a blathering fool.

He was bad. Although Though Terry Gannon isn't exactly a font of wisdom - I think it was after Patrick Chan's skate, he asked Tara and Johnny if he would score higher than Chen? The Chen who had just put six quads in his program, and Patrick had only two quads, both toe loops, and had his triple axle downgraded to a double.

I do like the lady - Australian? Belinda something? I can't remember who she is but I enjoy her commentary.

Oops - I looked up the wrong Olympics. Patrick had one quad and two triple axles. Anyway, Tara responded, "Nathan Chen?? Of course not." Terry was all, "oh, ok" like he had no idea what he was talking about. I don't see why they need him when they have both Johnny and Tara - but I do notice Johnny keeps his mouth shut a LOT. I was kind of surprised by that, but I like it. I don't blame him for complaining when they offered Adam a job right in the middle of the Olympics (if it's true). WTF? Please keep Johnny, NBC - he was abused enough during his skating career and doesn't deserve to be replaced (and he's smarter than Adam too imo).

Yes, Belinda Noonan is great. I cracked up listening to her try to explain Med's soul leaving the body program without audibly rolling her eyes. It was a valiant effort. She struck just the right balance between appreciating all the good things a skater has to offer and educating the viewer about the flaws in their programs. No idea why Terry is there.

R142 From the wording of his verdict, I got the impression that the Pair judge wasn't singled out by the Assessment Commission and it was an ISU decision to pursuit him.

ISU don't want to publish who got warnings. I think it's because many of them get at least one during a season and so they don't want their whole credibility to openly collapse. However, if you know warnings are private, they don't become much effective.

The wording of Huang's warning for his GP Final judging was hilarious. IIRC it was something on the lines of "your work has been good, except for the overmarking of Sui/Han and Yu/Zhang". Well, there were 6 pairs, he got 2 wrongly marked...but overall his work was good...he only got it wrong 1/3 of the competition...

Terry Gannon is there to play the part of the uninformed viewer. He actually knows a fair amount at this point since he's been working with expert skating commentators for decades. He asks the leading questions.

That this is his job becomes really clear when you watch Tanith Belbin does it--asking questions of Ben Agosto--as if Tanith didn't know as much about ice dancing as Ben, her former partner.

My favorite judging misconduct is the Nepela 2016 one. Because it wasn't probably even cheating but just carelessness but in trying to defend themselves, they sounded at best bizarre, at worst a bit mad...

Judge 3 testimony: “J1 and J2 talked amongst themselves during the event. They were not speaking in English. This began during the program of the team that was third to skate and continued throughout the second warm up and subsequent performances…. After the conclusion of the event, J4 and J5 and J6 expressed their anger about how distracting the talking was during the event. Due to the proximity of the seating on the panel, even the judges seated as far as those positions could hear the talking.”

Judge 4 testimony: "Subsequent to the Pairs Team from Great Britain skating there appeared to be a lot of conversation between Judge 1 and Judge 2 seated on the judging panel. The competition resumed and the conversation continued between the 2 judges. At the conclusion of the event Judge 3 (Canada), Judge 4 (myself GB), Judge 5 (USA) and Judge 6 (Germany) reported to the Technical Controller our concerns and he advised that we raise the issue in the RTD scheduled for later that day.”

Judge 5 testimony: “During the Pairs FS, judge 1 and judge 2 began talking quite loudly after the British team missed a lift. Judges 3 - 6 looked at that direction, nearly in unison, as the distraction was so severe. After the skaters finished their program the referee walked behind us and spoke to judge 7 in Russian, making him laugh. Judges 1 and 2 continued to talk.”

Judge 6 testiomony: “During the program of Wilkinson / Boyadij I heard a conversation between judge 1 and judge 2. I could not understand what they talked about because it was not in English. I was irritated and it disturbed me. The referee joined the conversation after a few seconds. I could not understand anything because they talked also not in English. I was irritated about these 2 things because normally for me there is no reason to talk during the competition.”

Judge 2 (it's Babenko who has along history about being caught talking to others during competitions...) testimony: he explained that several times he could not input his marks into the computer system, because the score for one element replaced the score for the previous element. Moreover, the video replay system did not work several times. That was why he as well as some other judges were forced to call on the Referee (and only him) with the request to help to fix the system. Probably his requests to the referee regarding the above-mentioned problems were interpreted by the judges No. 3 - 6 as violation of the Rules. But according to the Rules he would have the right to call on the Referee during competitions if some problems arise. Further the Alleged Offender pointed out that the spectators were sitting close behind the judges’ stand and that the conversation of the audience could have been mistaken as a conversation between him and Judge No. 2.

Judge 1 testimony: "I cannot comment anything on the talking with the Judge No. 1 as such talking did not exist…. The video replay issue made me talk to the Referee several times as my video replay was constantly breaking and judging pair skating without the video replay is very difficult and distracting. As far as I know, I wasn’t the only one who was struggling with this problem…. I cannot recall all the details of the competition but it might be the case that my video replay stopped working and I wanted to check the element again, which might have caused the idea that I was talking to another judge when I was actually talking to the Referee who was sitting next to Judge No.1. My mistake is that I did not stand up and went to the Referee but talked to him sitting in my place. "

...cont...

Terry Gannon is also on TV as mere eye candy.

the account of the post competition Judges meeting at Nepela 2016 was even better:

Judge 2: The Alleged Offender said that the Round Table Discussion passed as usual. Neither the Technical Controller nor the Referee nor the other Judges tried to speak about the conversation during the competition between Judge No. 1 and him.

Judge 3: During the Round Table Discussion, J 4, J 5 and myself each asked the Referee at different points in the meeting to address the issue of the talking during the event as it was so distracting. The Referee did not acknowledge the question the first and second time it was posed. We asked it later in the meeting for a third time at which point the Technical Controller also prompted the Referee to answer the question. The Referee’s explanation deviated on a tangent that did not address nor answer the question and concluded with a statement that he could only include items of technical nature in his report.”

Judge 5: “Two judges asked about the distraction during the discussion and the referee changed the subject. I finally came out and asked point-blank about it, and the referee went into a 20-minute dissertation on how difficult it was to judge under the 6.0 system. At this point we were simply ready to leave.”

Technical Controller: “At several points during the RTD the four Judges did raise the subject of the talking, and the walking around during the event by the Referee. The Referee did not answer these questions directly and only made reference to “technical issues”. At the third attempt one of the four Judges raised the subject, to which the Referee ignored the question again totally, I felt obliged to step in and prompted the Referee if he could please answer the question of that Judge. Even at that point, there was no clear answer given by the Referee. I can confirm the relevant parts of the statements by the Judges in Exhibits 6, 7, 8 and 9 as correct transcripts of what took place during the RTD. After the third attempt and my interference in the RTD to have the subject discussed, I gave up further attempts on it and decided there was no other choice than to report the Irregularity as I have done.”

Referee's report: the referee described the organization of the event as “acceptable” and added: “There were no problems during Competition.” The referee reported the course of the Round Table Discussion: “All judges participated in discussion. … During the RTD the atmosphere was very good and friendly.”

Referee's testimony: During the warm-up after 1st group of event, concluded by a British Pair Free Program, I surveyed all of the judges to clarify the correct operation of the PC and to identify any other problems. No one from the judges did inform me of any other problems, but problems with the PC. Based on the physical possibilities of man, I doubt that in such situation Judges 3-6 could hear conversation between Judge 1 and 2, or clearly identify the source of a talks (technical panel, staff, spectators). I also doubt that in that situation Judge 3 could identify language of conversations, and Judge 6 could hear conversation between referee and Judge 1 and 2 on an incomprehensible language (Judges 3-5 were sitting closer to referee and Judges 1 and 2, than Judge 6, and didn't observe it). None of the judges did report about violations of ISU Rules, ISU Code of Ethics during breaks in execution of programs, warm-up, before and during RTD. I deny the fact of conversations between judges 1 and 2 during the execution of programs, breaks between execution of programs, and the warm-up, and therefore the necessity for my actions on the matter. I deny the fact of referee talking with the judges in non-English language. I deny the fact of receiving and ignoring judges 3-5 questions at the RTD about the violation of the ISU Rules by Judges 1 and 2, and, therefore the necessity for my actions on this issue. I deny the fact of talks at the RTD on topics not related to the RTD.”

but the big question left unanswered are: what the hell were they talking about? and

R151: Is that written in English?

R152 for ISU standards, that's fluid English...I've seen worse things written by them. They don't proof-read even official regulations. They are often full of typos

Referee's English skills are not top mark.

They are still better than those of this judge:

"After the competition I went and ask (the referee) if I can have my file because all my marking papers are inside, and she said yes you can take your file, but I took one page from it and I want to talk to you. She took the paper without my permission or without asking me of course she is a referee she can look check but what she is trying to do is as I felt was a bit to disturb me, we go to the room she show me which page she took, that was the page list of skaters which was with me during the short dance practice that I took some notes near the names of skaters with my own hand writing, I supposed to make up my mind not to mix the skaters because there were 20 couples and its sometimes difficult for me to remember while judging its more practice to grouping them but there were only 5 or 6 skaters the first group I mean, and I told her this is for the short dance and you can check my marks for short dance you will see it they are totally same and this paper is nothing it’s just my paper and my own notes?!!”"

Even if Judges 3-6 couldn't understand Russian, they probably would be able tell if Judges 1 and 2 were just consulting the ref about the computer system. 1 and 2 would be pointing back and forth at the screen and their notes. But why were they so loud? And who was the ref?

Nevermind. The ref was Alexandre Gorojdanov, also of Belarus. So Laimute Krauziene of Lithuania was Judge 1.

yes, referee was Gorojdanov

He got 6 months for that. He came back for GP 2017. He judged at Rostelecom Cup. Then he was at Golden Spin in December 2017. He was filmed looking at the marks of Russian judge next to him during Short Dance. He was put under investigation again. He resigned in order to get the investigation stopped. He is now out for at least 3 years.

I saw this on Twitter:

David Wilson will be choreographing Daisuke Takahashi's new short program at the Cricket Club in Toronto. Daisuke will be there from July 16-24.

R157 I think he asked Wilson when they ran into each other in Japan. Mid July is kind of late but understandable with Wilson's schedule. Maybe he'll stop complaining about Japanese skaters going to other choreographers now.

I've only been following figure skating since Pyeongchang (after a years long break) but are Evgenia and Brian trolling Eteri?

David Wilson complains about not having Japanese figure skaters? Apart from the top ranking male skaters in the world? Hm.

R160 He doesn't like that they use other choreographers for other programs unlike Yuna Kim, who's used him for all of her programs since 2007. I half expect him to call them "orientals," the way he talks about Asian skaters.

David Wilson was complaining to Dave Lease a few years ago that Asian skaters typically don't stay with one choreographer. What he neglected to mention is that the best skaters dump him because he's mediocre and they've found someone better--who they do stay with.

Orser probably is trolling Eteri but maybe Yuna too? As in, I finally found myself another top female skater to replace the one who dumped me. I really wish Brian wouldn't do that stuff. He was bragging about Tursy when she first came to him and look how that turned out.

Daisuke Takahashi practicing (yesterday?) at Kansai Uni rink in Japan - doing a triple axel (in a shaky combo with two doubles?) and some other jump. And after he takes his backwards baseball cap off (very cool, Dai, the years just melt away...), he reveals his two tone red/black hair. So we know he's going to Wilson for choreography (short program anyway) but do we know if he has a coach and who it is? He was with Benoit Richaud a couple weeks back - choreo for long?

Anyway, he's on Japanese tv! So I hope he's happy. On one messageboard, they were talking about him possibly making it to Worlds along with Hanyu/Uno instead of Tomono. That would be a helluva thing, especially from one who did an interview on July 1 and said he wasn't sure if it was right for him to compete internationally, even if he made the team, because he felt it was fairer to let the younger skaters get the experience. And also Tomono is 10 years younger, less injured, and has quads Takahashi didn't have at his best times. Oh and Keiji who?

Forgot the link of Takahashi practice:

I cannot see it. I mean his coming back. I love Dai but.....

[quote]On one messageboard, they were talking about him possibly making it to Worlds along with Hanyu/Uno instead of Tomono. That would be a helluva thing, especially from one who did an interview on July 1 and said he wasn't sure if it was right for him to compete internationally, even if he made the team, because he felt it was fairer to let the younger skaters get the experience. And also Tomono is 10 years younger, less injured, and has quads Takahashi didn't have at his best times. Oh and Keiji who?

How can you be so sure none of those others will be injured by the time Worlds rolls around? Yuzuru seems to spend more time injured than not. And Keiji who, indeed...I forget he exists all the time. Tomono's cute but very inconsistent. Uno is probably due for a big injury soon with his awful landings.

Tanaka will peak in December. Get the Worlds spot. And will finish 12th there.

Dai has seriously unattractive hair.

R162 Dai's combo in the clip was a triple axel, double toe, double loop. And shaky, as you noted. They also showed him landing a rather weak triple loop. But I love this guy. Nobody gets across the ice like him.

I love it when people can look at a jump and just i.d. it immediately. So butch!

I can't even tell a triple from a quadruple. I try to watch their heads but I can't keep up. I can finally tell a triple axel from the leg swing and switch to forward facing - and the loop sometimes - when the camera shows their legs crossed really well.

The flip really confuses me. Seems like they jump up and switch their foot from facing in one direction to facing in the complete opposite direction, just before takeoff, but I'm not sure if that's part of the jump all the time - I know I've seen Uno do that - maybe it's just his style. Or maybe that's the "flip" part.

Oh and I can see that wicked ankle lean in the Lutz. That looks deadly to ligaments to me. And for some reason, they say loops are terrible on the hips - hurt Tara Lipinsky's because of her triple-triple loops - and it's been an issue for Nathan Chen because he's had some kind of hip surgery (impulsion or some weird word that his injury was - took him out of competition for months) and I think I read it the loop still bothers him?

OK here it is (on Chen's hip): Chen sustained an avulsion injury to his left hip, leading to surgery on January 27, 2016, ...resumed full-strength on-ice training around July.

R162 I don't think Brian would troll Eteri or Yuna. He's acknowledged Eteri's work with Medvedeva in his interviews since she announced her move and told her to be appreciative of her old coach. Not that it matters. Eteri will still see it as trolling.

With Dai headed to the Cricket Club in July, maybe he can hook back up with his ex-lovebird Hanyu. Here’s a gif of them at an ice show doing a version of the bridal threshhold carry, with Yuzuru as the groom.

Is Hanyu even back in Toronto? And what's the deal with Boyang Jin, will he move to TCC in the end? Seems like he will stay in China at least until the end of July. Seems quite late to join pre season training.

I don't think Daisuke and Yuzu get along to be honest. They are way too different even disregarding all the past drama. Pretending everyone is friends during ice shows is standard though unless you are called Misha Ge and annoyed Yuzu so much he can't even keep his famous public composure and plastered smile anymore and straight up looks like he hates you.

R162: Don’t confuse an actual top skater with Med, who shouldn’t be within a mile of a podium. With actual top skaters you can talk about some talent connected with their skating.. Notice people don’t do that with her or anyone connected with that school. The jacket wearing is tedious at best since this is Tursy part 2.

I’m upset that Wilson will now ruin Japanese FS. Damn.

Misha's twitter is so cringey. What is up with the black and white artsy shots? I get that it's pretty but it looks so pretentious. Maybe I'm biased because I get goosebumps with his consistently writing about what an artist he is. But what would we do without our favorite person to hate, right?

r177 Black and white photos is what makes you cringe? I don't know how you can stand the internet then. r176 Medvedeva, while being no Mao Asada, is certainly a talented skater, one does not achieve what she did, against competition she had, without talent. The greatest thing about her move yo Orser, that now she might have a chance, and time, to add maturity to her talent.

As for whether Hanyu is back in Toronto, I've found a formula that seems to accurately predict where he is; if Uno is in Japan, Hanyu is in Canda. If Uno is in Canada, Hanyu is in Japan. i have no idea why this formula works but it does.

Medvedeva has stone-cold nerves, I give her credit for that. She's also expressive (if prone to maudlin), which makes her more than a robot. On the downside, she skates hunched, with low jumps and bent legs. I'd like her much better as a skater if she opened up and stretched occasionally.

Hanyu was visiting a school in Fukushima the other day. I don't think he's left Japan yet. Are there any non-Eteri girls who could pull an upset in seniors and juniors?

non-Eteri Russian girls I mean.

R181: I’m not sure if the new rule to curb backloading will be enough for that to happen.

R178: Backloading is not talent. The Eteribots are not talented. Their era cannot end fast enough.

So will Eteri make a star out of Tursy? Can't wait to see the two of them in the K&C together.

Zagitova's actually got good jumps and clean edges, and despite the hate she gets for backloading, she's got power and a choreography that matched her backloading. She didn't learn jumps from Eteri. If expressing through skating is being a robot, give me a robot like Alina any day over the face mimes like Med.

R185: is she young enough learn how to skate a complete program?

Wilson did fantastic program for daisuke. One Of his best

R186 She already did. And won an olympic gold medal for it. All the components, the GOEs, etc. were there. I don't know what was missing aside from miming or making faces. Sure, she could always improve, but so could everyone else. It's pretty dismissive to call Russian girls "robots" for being technically superior when we all know no one would be calling Chen or Zhou a robot if they cleaned up their jumps.

R186 AKA Helen Keller: on what alternate universe are the Eteribots technically superior to other skaters?

The Medvedeva vs. Zagitova showdown has already begun. Yesterday, Medvedeva challenged the same skating course Zagitova did on the Japanese game show Honoo-no Taiiku-kai TV. Zagitova got it on her second try (not shown in the clip below). Not sure when Medvedeva's episode will broadcast but other members of Dreams on Ice will be in it, definitely Savchenko and maybe Chen . There's a video of the entire 5/12 show with Zagitova under a Russian title somewhere on youtube. Fernandez, Osmond and Wakaba also appeared although Zagitova was the only one to do the course. Looks like Japanese media and Medvedeva's agent are going to milk this rivalry.

Yet they will delete posts about skaters being gay...but will practically write college term papers on their sexual exploits if they’re heterosexual...

New programs debuted at Dreams on Ice

Kihira SP: Clair de lune

Mihara SP: It's magic

Tanaka FS: William Tell

Sakamoto FS: The Piano

Tomono SP: Nuovo Cinema Paradiso

R176, I would never confuse Yuna with Med. But as a major Hanyu fan, I've been watching Orser for years and it's clear that he still has not recovered from Yuna dumping him. Or even from Adam leaving him--he mentioned both of those events yet again in an interview not that long ago. So yes, I can see him thinking of Med as both a Yuna replacement and also as someone who can keep him in the coaching spotlight. Brian has now been to three Olympics as a coach and his skaters have won OGMs at all of them. Despite his outward modesty, I think he has loved every minute of that and doesn't want to give that up. So instead of just focusing (as he earlier said he was planning to do) on his 13 year old Canadian jump machine and that Korean kid, he suddenly agreed to take on Med and Jin. It will be interesting to see how that plays out for him.

[quote]AKA Helen Keller: on what alternate universe are the Eteribots technically superior to other skaters?

You sound like a bitter old queen stuck in some past decade! How do you measure superiority? And all of Eteri's skaters are quite different. What makes Kostornaia, Tarakanova, Tsurskaya, etc. "bots"? What is Panenkova or Zagitova lacking technically (since your bitching is not about artistry)? Be specific.

R194: Guess I’m bitter, but less so than the public that no longer watch or have an interest in FS. They agree with me... along with announcers, ppl employed in the sport, and other skaters.

Med and Zag are such bots that I cannot be bothered to type their names out. They win by gaming the system. It’s why we can discuss other skaters skating abilities versus only speaking about bracelets and Instagram when it comes to speaking about Med.

I measure superiority by being able to do more than wave your arms around and do half-asses jumps.

R193: Another skater will not get close to 100% focus by a coaching team like Yuna did at TCC. I don’t think that Med and Boyang as replacements for Yuna and Hanyu. I think it’s a smart business move to get Russian and Chinese Fed money. I’m not knocking it. It’s a smart move especially when you consider these two have followings. I’d be pissed over Yuna, considering her mom wrote a book how to coach your child, and Yuna was able to win a second medal. I would like to see a Junior lady develop and win out of TCC.

Lmao at R188 for thinking that cleaned up jumps are al Zhou or Chen need to keep us from criticizing them. Believe whatever you want to believe in order to live in the fantasy land where zags is expressive.

I seriously doubt that TCC--playground of the "idle rich" (David Wilson) --is in need of Russian or Chinese money. Brian & Tracy are drowning in requests by skating parents to coach their kids.

A few years ago Phil Hersh did an interview with Orser and brought up the topic of how long any one coach/training center can remain on top. I'm guessing that issue is probably something Brian thinks about a lot--I certainly would if I were him. And to remain on top your skaters have to win medals.

R197: There’s a big difference between the money offered from local children looking to skate and federation money and support. Also, they are the marketable skaters. I’m not saying it’s the only reason, just that it may be one reason among many.

Wilson’s idle rich comment is interesting.

What causes a club to sink?

I agree that Orser hasn't gotten over Yuna, but I guess I can't see how Med is a Yuna replacement. Both Orser and David Wilson seem to feel proprietary over Yuna because she came to them as this sad, weepy, unmotivated, albeit talented, young thing and they really worked to bring her out as a person and a skater. I can see why he would feel personally betrayed after mom dumps him unceremoniously. Even though Yuna got a medal, the fact that she didn't win is still seen as a huge injustice and failure by her fans. A big what-if for Yuna has always been that if she stayed with Orser and been smarter about certain things, including her layout, maybe she would have won (or been more cheat-proof).

Med comes to him with an already impressive resume, having been shaped by another coach since she was 8/9. The problems with her technique are not easy fixes and If she gets something other than gold in 2022, that doesn't give him redemption for Yuna because Yuna medaled without him. I guess I see the Yuna thing as both a personal and professional issue for Orser - I don't see where he gets the personal satisfaction with Med b/c she comes to him already a mature skater (and that's the problem) and he already experienced the professional satisfaction of coaching someone to 2 OGMs with Hanyu. Is the Yuna betrayal so deep that he has to also show that he can coach a more mature woman to an OGM?

R199: Does the OGM have that much importance nowadays? It’s not like the ladies stick around or that they do anything that memorable anymore. Take out Yuna and think about in the past 20 years, what ogm is that memorable?

R200 Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but I definitely think OGMs matter, even if there are going to be OGM programs that are more memorable than others. 1) That's why most skaters just secure their OGM and then retire, most think there's nothing left for them to accomplish; 2) It gives them more options when they retire; 3) For someone like Michelle Kwan, who had a long successful career and won everything but, I think the lack of a OGM is still seen as a blemish on her otherwise stellar record; 4) Many of Yuna's fans are still smarting over her loss; and the crazy ones are still leaving nasty comments and death threats on pictures/videos of other skaters they think somehow challenge her as the undisputed queen of figure skating, like Sotnikova, Medvedeva, basically every top female Russian skater and even Hanyu (but maybe that's more of a nationalistic thing than an OGM thing). What else do you think matters more for skaters than the OGM in terms of professional achievement?

[quote] Take out Yuna and think about in the past 20 years, what ogm is that memorable?

A lot of them? Grishuk/Platov 1998, Yagudin 2002, Anissina/Peizerat 2002, Plushenko 2006, Shen/Zhao 2010, Virtue/Moir both times, Volosozhar/Trankov 2014, Davis/White 2014, Savchenko/Massot 2018, Hanyu 2018, and I would think Arakawa 2006 was pretty memorable too.

[quote]What else do you think matters more for skaters than the OGM in terms of professional achievement?

I agree, it's the crowning of their career. That's why Aliona Savchenko postponed having a family and got herself the third partner, why Hanyu grit his teeth, took some pills and risked not having a further career, why Virtue/Moir came after an already long and successful career. I think not getting the OGM was why Patrick Chan continued this last cycle.

Woops, It was supposed to be only about who of the female OGMs are memorable? I still maintain that Arakawa's was memorable.

R201 R203: We remember them, but does the public? Is it now more important to have great social media presence and marketing? I know it is important to skaters, but is it as important? I can see it decreasing. It’s not as if you are moving on to anything else, like a professional career.

r200 I'm not R199 but Tara Lipinski wouldn't have any of her opportunities of she didn't win OGM. OMG also completely changed Shizuka Arakawa's life. Yuna is the best example and Brian would know that firsthand. Hughes and Sotnikova not as much but Hughes chose to go to Yale fulltime right after and Sotnikova was an unusual case.

But Medvedeva might not even make the next Olympics, as a Russian skater. I think she's more of an experiment for Orser to test his ability to create a rounded, professional skater. If Russia decides to reduce her funding in the future to support the younger girls, she could leave TCC. I don't the 2022 Olympics or 4 full years at TCC is a guarentee.

R204 Med and Jin aren't North American. Their governments will set them up for life of they become national heroes. You can have a professional career in Russia and China's market is growing.

R205: Yuna has a major marketing machine behind her before the Games. It’s the way it works in SK. I’m not saying a gold makes no difference, but is it the end all be all? If you have a commercial presence, esp with social media, do you need the gold? It may give you more of what you already have now.

r204. It depends on who do you mean by public. If it's the once-in-four-years type of public, then they'll remember them no less and no more than Yuna, and no less and no more than winners of other sports they're not fans of. If they actually sat down and watched the performances, they might remember them better than winners of other sports. If it's casual fans who watch more than just the Olympics, then they'll have definitely remembered them.

R199 Yuna was a sad, weepy little thing? Please. She had textbook jumps even before she went to Orser and just happened to be shy and introverted. It's so sad how people think she was "unmotivated" just because she wasn't flailing her arms around trying to get attention. To get to where she was from a country that has literally one college with an ice rink and a mess of a federation and no support systems at all, and to seek out a guy who had never coached before in a strategy to get an Olympic gold by training far away from home in Canada, I think most people would agree that there is some motivation there. She'd done a lot for future skaters too, I don't see where people get this idea that they are qualified to mouth off on her level of motivation. Or is it that she's Asian that everything she does is dismissed as a "tiger mom" thing?

R195 R196 Zagitova may not be "expressive" in terms of miming or tragic face-making, but her skating speaks for itself. Her jumps are clean. Waving arms around, you're thinking Med. And her jumping skills are way superior to either Chen or Zhou, yet we don't see people calling the boys bots. It's one thing to not be moved by her skating but to flippantly dismiss an entire legion of skaters because they fit the evil cackling Russian witch narrative just looks like bitterness.

R205 Yuna was famous in SK because she was the first skater that came out of nowhere to show that much talent and the country put huge hopes in her. It's no different than the kind of hype and camera-bombing that skaters in Japan get from a young age nowadays. I mean Ashley Wagner or whoever has a lot of social media presence, Misha Ge has a lot of social media presence, doesn't make them relevant in the general public's mind unless you're a diehard fan.

It's interesting how hung up Orser is about Yuna. It's almost as if he feels a little bit guilty about his part in it and wants a re-do, but what do I know. Hanyu fans will lynch anyone that so much as suggests that Orser doesn't fart rainbows and gold pots.

Orser already created a well-rounded skater--have you forgotten former slacker Javi Fernandez already?

Not true about Hanyu fans and Orser. Most remember how difficult it has been for the 2 of them to come to a point where they can communicate (and I don't mean because of the language barrier). Orser initially tried to stay distant (he admitted it himself) so as not to grow attached and get hurt like with Yuna if the student were to leave while Yuzu had troubles expressing himself whether he was feeling left out or even downright injured and hiding it. This led to the Boston drama after which most Hanyu fans expected him to pack his bags and leave. He didn't but he always mentioned how Tracy is the one who helped him when he was going through rehabilitation after Boston not only with physical training but mentally. He also seems very close with the jump coach Briand. I think with Brian they have a complicated relationship and again I think on Brian's side it's partially because of his past with Yuna. And of course Yuzuru is not the easiest student to handle because of how intense and competitive he is but also very emotional and private. So yeah all in all not all roses and rainbows at TCC but still a team that worked well together towards their common goal.

SP of Kihira (Claire de Lune) and Mihara (Doris Day's It's Magic) are choreographed by David Wilson

Sakamoto's The Piano is by Richaud

Tomono's Nuovo Cinema Paradiso is by Ge as we already knew

Who has done Tanaka's William Tell?

Eh, I guess I've seen too much drama at Tumblr and Twitter among the teenage crazies who believe that anything and anyone that Hanyu touches is holy and good. They defend Orser's handling of Boyang's TCC move because Papa Orser couldn't have possibly done anything less than their own idea of how a perfect man handles things. They defend Misha and Med's stupid SNS actions because all of Hanyu's friendships are pure and beautiful and must be protected. They literally challenge anyone who doesn't think like them to fight them publicly though they have no idea what happened either, and their worship of Hanyu's teammates is borderline fetishizing. But sure, I'd be happy to believe that there are logical ones out there that aren't diehard weeaboos with too much time on their hands.

I am curious to see the quality of the Artist Misha Ge's choreography of Tomono. I hope it's worth his hype.

And bless Tanaka. With Takahashi coming back and consistently being way behind Hanyu and Uno, I half expected him to retire this season after the Olympics. He's not my favorite to watch but good on him for continuing to try.

Those fans are really weird. They don't mind scrutinizing and tinhatting about the most inane elements of Yuzu's life but the moment you mention something that doesn't sound like praise towards the people who surround him, they come for your throat because how dare you ruin the perfect image of uninterested friend Misha Ge or question papa Orser motives and methods. Personally I prefer tinhatting over Hanyu's feelings to being told Medvedeva and Jin would move to TCC which I don't believe to be all positive, rather than wondering about his living arrangement with his mom or trying to determine the size of his penis by looking at HD pics of his crotch like those same fans do.

R210 I meant develop a well-rounded skater from the Russian system. It's a way for him to show his holistic approach is superior.

R209 Western fangirls on Tumblr but not so in Asia where they're becoming more and more angry at Orser for taking in Medvedeva's and Brown. The last interview he gave about Hanyu 's personal life and lack of friends didn't help.

You don't need to like Orser or believe he is a miracle coach to know that his approach to skating is the right one and leads to well-rounded skaters.

Did Orser do yet another interview about what a loner poor little Hanyu is? Jezus. He really fans the flames on the crazy. Now I'm curious about how the majority of fans in Asia view the situation. I've seen Korean fans say they can't trust a word that comes out of Orser's mouth but I don't know if that's a popular sentiment. They seemed pretty skeptical of the whole "I told him and he didn't respond so I took it as a yes, he would have said something if he didn't like Boyang coming" but tell that to the western fangirls and they'll eat you alive.

I don't know or care about Orser personally but I don't think there is "the right approach" for every skater. Skaters have different personalities that thrive under different conditions. Nam and Gabby don't look to me like the most successful skaters at this stage but what do I know.

I feel like the coaching team over there aside from Orser deserve a little more credit. Everyone talks about Orser when they talk about the coaching team, but the team is like an army of professionals that are ready to groom you into a champion. Orser may have been alone in coaching Yuna, but Yuna was also an extraordinary talent that was already technically accomplished by the time she found him. Tracy Wilson seems like a great coach whose name often gets dropped when it comes to the coaching team there.

Re: Orser's relationship with Yuzuru - I don't think they're that distant? He's talked before about how he decided to not get close to his skaters but then he basically gave up on that and he considers both Yuzuru and Javier (probably Jun Hwan as well as he's mentioned) sort of like his sons.

This is what I meant br is a ogm important. Fan talk instead of discussing actual skating or anything based in reality, just fan impressions. This is what’s important and why skaters and coaches fan those flames.

"Orser may have been alone in coaching Yuna"

In an interview, Orser said he was reluctant to become a coach but Tracy Wilson said, "Let's do it together" and that convinced him. So I assume that means she was an integral part of the coaching Yuna. And people seldom mention the rest of the coaches at TCC but I think there's a couple dozen at least - maybe you have to include specialists in that - there's a woman who helps with spins but I can't remember her name.

Also, has Ghislain left? All I seem to hear about or see together are Orser and David Wilson (and at the Olympics, throw in Tracy or the guy who sat with Gabby). I hope Ghislain is still there because he and Hanyu seemed particularly close (Hanyu and Tracy too).

I think Med needs Tracy for deportment and skating skills - and she needs a technical jump coach. Not sure she needs Brian that much, but what do I know. Well, I know he wants to be upfront with her in public, for the reputation thing - to keep his going. Who can even touch him now? Just Raf, who's had plenty stumbles of his own?

Not sure he considers any of them like family apart from Javier but he has mentioned that Yuzu reminds him a lot of himself younger which I find a pretty interesting comment.

R209 Where did I get the impression that Yuna was weepy and sad? David Wilson said so in his interview with David Lease - that for the first 3 months, his goal was to make her smile and (I think it's in the same interview, not sure) that she was miserable and cried and cried all the time during training. He said he thought she shut down again after she left them in 2010.

This is what Orser had to say about her mother's role in motivating her: "Mee-hee did everything in her power to make Yuna practice, recover and be in great shape. In this respect, I always knew that I could rely on her completely. And now I can say, although we stopped cooperating with Yuna soon after Vancouver, that the contribution of her mother to her Olympic victory is huge, it cannot be overestimated."

We can disagree about all of this means, but I'm hardly relying on some sort of racial stereotype. And I'm not sure how these things take away from her skating skills or accomplishments. I thought her performances in 2010 were wonderful and she should have won in 2014. This doesn't mean she is a happy camper though - the pressure on her in Korea is still pretty insane. There was some speculation that she never even set foot on ice in the years between Sochi and Pyeongchang because she was afraid it would lead to pressure for her to return for a third Olympics.

I was wondering why you were suddenly going off on Hanyu fans, but I guess if you just came from Tumblr, I can understand the PTSD.

tLee Barkell is the "guy who sat with Gabby". And he's her primary coach

I've heard Brian call Yuzu headstrong and stubborn. Brian didn't want him to add the loop or the Lutz - Yuzu did anyway. Brian wanted Yuzu to work out and bulk up - Yuzu said no, it would mess up his jumps.

I think Javi basically did what Brian told him to do. OTOH, I've read that Brian develops Yuzuru's training regimen and Yuzu follows it to the letter - I guess until he has a major disagreement and then he puts his foot down.

Thanks R223 - I'm hell with names. I found it odd that Brian sat with Gabby during the team event at Pyechongchang but not at her individual ones. I figured a rift had developed but maybe it didn't mean anything.

Orser said Fernandez is much closer to him, very dependent and seeks his advice while Hanyu is distant, makes his own decisions and does his own thing. He also said he was so happy to see Hanyu hang out with the other skaters during the fantasy on Ice tour, that he hasn't seen anything like that since Sochi when he stopped going out and interacting with other skaters. But Hanyu never hung out or went out pre-Sochi according to himself and Fernandez, also a self-described homebody, always fooled around with other skaters during tours. He thinks Medvedeva, Brown, and Jin wi l be good for him socially but Hanyu is old enough to make his own friends and isn't Orser.

I haven't seen Hanyu name Orser in any interviews for a while. Tracy, yes. He did say only family is forever, coaches change right after Pyeongchang.

Coaching staff from Toronto Cricket Skating Club from 2018 Summer Skating brochure

Orser

Wilson

Paige Aistrop

Ed Bahoric

Christine Bahoric

Lee Barkell

Ghislain Briand

Petra Burka

Geoffrey Dionisio

Andrew Hallam

Thom Hayim

Judie Jeffcott

Ken Langlois

Mary Angela Larmer

Ken Ormsby

Karen Preston

Ernest Pryhitka

Alison Purkiss

Joey Russell (Javier Raya's primary coach)

Astrid Shrubb

Mazin Thomas

David Wilson

I like Hanyu a lot and wish him well -- but I can't help but look at this from Orser's point of view. Javi's definitely gone and Yuzuru just won his second gold medal! He's announced he wants to skate competively "just a little while longer" and his only motivation is the 4A.

It would be weird if Orser just sat around and didn't add big stars who approached him, for fear that Yuzuru might not be happy about it. Now four years ago - and certainly six years ago right after Yuzuru started at TCC, it would have been a different situation. But a coach has to keep thinking about the future, just like anybody else with a career. You can't say he hasn't delivered for Hanyu, if you judge a coach's value by the results you've achieved with him/her.

Orser said in a televised interview, if Fernandez and Hanyu continue with him after Pyeongchang, "Well, if you adult kids want to move back with you after they graduate, you don't turn them away."

R220 - Ghislain is still there and he was pretty prominent during the Olympics - he sat with Hanyu after his short and free programs. Paige Aistrop is the spin coach.

Oh good - thanks R220. Yeah I didn't phrase that very well - I meant that I hadn't heard or seen anything of Ghislain SINCE the Olympics - but I guess, why would I?

R227 In the same interview he also said he thought Hanyu was going to retire until they spoke at the end of March. I don't know the Jin or Brown timeline but I think they were almost finalized by then. I agree no one should expect Orser not to take on new skaters, just disagree that Orser and Hanyu are close, and that Hanyu was consulted rather than told. I doubt he would have objected in either case knowing it's Orser's right and life. I wouldn't be surprised if Hanyu's going back to TCC for the facilities and teamand not so much Orser.

R227, agreed. Hanyu's career peak has happened. He's already been injured--what are the odds, really, that he's going to last the next quad on top? Fernandez is retiring. It only makes sense for Orser to pick up skaters who haven't peaked yet.

I think Medvedeva's an interesting challenge--a world champion with nerves of steel and flawed technique. She's a winner, but not, IMO, a truly great skater because of the posture, low, forced jumps. I'll be curious about what happens there. She's still young for a North American skater, though not a Russian one.

Re: Zagitova--my issue with her is not talent; it's more that I think she'll crash and burn. She's hit puberty hard and I think she's like Julia Lipnitskaya in that her adult body isn't naturally an ultra-thin one. She's going to be fighting her appetite and injury to stay on top. My guess is that, gold already in hand, she won't stick around for the full next quad. Medvedeva, who has a thinner build, can and will--since she wants that OGM.

R227 - I agree, Orser has to think about the future of his club and career. Aside from the other points you made, at this point in his career, Hanyu seems to know what he wants from each of the coaches and likes to be in control so he doesn't need the constant handling.

Hanyu's relationship with Orser does seem to be interesting - I've often thought, how can you be around someone for 6 years, go through so much with them, and still claim not to really know them that well personally, but I guess it happens and Hanyu does hold most people at a distance and might have decided he's in Toronto to get coaching advice and not make friends. I think Orser has a more paternal/personal relationship with Javi not just because of Javi's more open personality, but because that's what Javi needed from him.

I do think that language has something to do with it. Hanyu once said that one of the great things about having his mother in Toronto with him was to be able to talk to her about everything in the evenings, in Japanese. I recently watched a youtube about an Englishman who spoke Japanese and lived there for 5 years, but he missed most being able to 'really' talk to someone in English - it's not even just the fluency, it's a different way of thinking about the world.

And Orser (and everybody) seems to think Hanyu doesn't have any friends - but in an interview with Kenji Miyamoto when asked what he liked to do, Hanyu said he talked to his friends a lot online - Oda mentioned being in a snapchat or somesuch with Yuzu, Kanako and Akiko once - I think we don't really know how much Hanyu socializes, and neither does Orser (and I consider talking to your friends online to be "socializing") He probably has all the friends he wants to have - he just can't go out because people would approach him a lot and being so polite - well, that would be a pain to deal with. Anyhow, it's his business - I wish Orser would shut up about it. He sure kept HIS private life secret as long as he possible could manage (till sued for palimony).

Hanyu holds people at a distance in Japan as well and barely goes out there either. He never visited Kanazawa landmarks when they had a show there last month while most of the other skaters did. He doesn't even go for dinner with Oda who he is admittedly the closest to. I think it's partly his personality: despite enjoying the attention while on the ice, he is an introvert and enjoys staying home. And partly because his insane popularity and the pressure on his shoulders make it hard for him to go out and interact normally with people. And it's probably not going to improve since the first thing he mentioned after receiving his prize is that he will work hard as a skater and a person not to bring shame to his name and make sure no one can speak ill behind his back.

R234 "and make sure no one can speak ill behind his back" - the first time I saw that I was like, shit, he's going to be miserable b/c people will find shit to say about you no matter what you do, but I recently saw another translation of what he said and it was something more along the lines of, I will try my best to live up to my responsibilities as a recipient of this honor, both in my skating and in my private life.

As far as I remember the literal meaning in Japanese is about behaving in way that won't give incentive for people to talk behind his back and with his experience with media and antis that's probably what he meant. It's sad and quite unhealthy to be honest. I guess it also confirms that even if he is gay, he will never come out.

R236 Really? That's sad. I was hoping it was just a bad translation.

R236 Just to add, if he's gay I don't care whether he comes or not, but he should be able to live his private life however he wants. It's sad that he would feel this sense of pressure and responsibility even in private.

It's kinda weird. Just watching Yuzuru at competitions, galas, on talk shows, the photos from the banquets, etc., I wouldn't even guess that Yuzuru was shy. He seems so outgoing. Now Shoma, Nathan, Keiji, a bunch of others, yes, I'd think they were shy. But not Yuzuru.

I take him at his word about not going out and such, but I just can't imagine him living a hermit/otaku kind of life. He's always at some 'do' or another - visiting a school, having a parade, being given an award with a gazillion people around, being interviewed on countless talk shows, making adverts (they seem to always make a documentary about him making a commercial) -- I could go on... He seems as much exposed as anybody. He can't even do his work (practice at an ice rink) without having to deal with numerous people.

And when he talks about his future, it always involves other people - whether doing ice shows or starting a skating school... He also has a sister, a family... Well, I don't know, in a way, it's because he's so open about talking about these things, practically about anything, that I think it even comes up. Sometimes I think he's more of an open book than any other skater, in his own way - he lives his life in public - almost constantly (or when in Toronto, in the rink). He made friends with Javi, that's for sure - but also with Shoma, with Keiji, with Kenji, with Mura, with Oda, with Kanoko, with Akiko, with Plushenko, with Lambiel, with Johnny Weir, and let's not forget Misha! And on and on...

Med recently said she didn't have any friends. Funny how we're not talking about that - or anybody else, in the same way.

r233 The 90s were a very different time for gay men in Canada and no one should force another person to come out, unless they're a gay-hating politician or evangelist. But I get your point.

Hanyu was talking about being a homebody since he was twelve or around there. It's even harder now but he was never an extrovert or social butterfly even before he became famous. Uno doesn't go out either but no one finds that strange. Hanyu also doesn't or can't drink, which is a big thing in your early twenties in Japan.

R235 That's more accurate. It sounds extreme in English when you do a direct translation but I watched the press conference and he didn't say anything particularly surprising. Just as a warning, most translations out there are done by fans who don't always have the language ability or cultural understanding to translate accurately. I've seen a lot of errors and some English translations are also translations of Chinese translations of Japanese articles.

You can be someone who loves attention and praise and hanging out with people and still be someone who also wants to be seen as perfect and keep people at arm's length so as to avoid being talked about. Anxiety manifests in different forms.

I don't think I see Hanyu as someone who has held himself out to be "perfect." He's described himself as a loudmouth, greedy, not modest, stubborn and mentally weak and he rarely seems satisfied with his performances. He's open about his professional goals, failures and frustrations. He has said virtually nothing about his private life, except that he wants to try to live an honest one. Don't most people, even if they fall short or fuck up along the way? Not so much about perfection as living thoughtfully and doing the best you can.

What's your problem with not going out? Not everyone has to like it.jesus. not everyone has to live spendin time with "friends",drinkin like it should be the only way to spend your time. If not, you re called no lifer

Hanyu isn't shy but he is an introvert. He has very few friends and never goes out and as someone mentioned it's not a recent thing. On the other hand you have Shoma who is shy but actually hangs out with a lot of people. He was for instance rooming with Keiji during Pyeonchang. Also all the times Hanyu appears as a social butterfly are public gatherings usually competitions or ice shows or events with the media. There isn't a single instance of him going out with friends in private whether in Japan or in Toronto and he himself has commented on how he is lonely and doesn't go out and people like Oda, Javier and Miki have also mentioned several times that he always declines invitations. His entire life is focused on the ice (and repaying the people who have supported him) and everything else seems completely secondary to him.

I wish I'd made note of his exact words - but anyway, Hanyu did several hours of one-on-one interviews with Kenji Miyamoto - I think that's his name. He's done some choreography for Yuzuru. Anyway, in one of their conversations - HOURS of conversation - they broach the subject of socializing. And Yuzuru said something like: I think if I hadn't become a skater, my life would be much different, much more social.

Not the exact words but close - and he didn't expound on it - but I think just before that, he talked about being a pushy little kid, brash, outspoken, oh something like that. If I weren't so lazy I'd go back and listen but I can't remember which episode it was (it aired over several days.) It really jumped out at me as an odd thing to say.

I also think it's odd to say "I'm lonely..." I mean, I know people do it, but most people don't say so. Well, maybe on a messageboard or in a blog, but it's just such an open, soul-bearing, unusual thing to hear. But then, I'm not Japanese - but I had the impression that Japanese were the opposite of open and soul-bearing, and were easily embarrassed or ashamed. Yuzuru never fails to surprise me with his transparency. Maybe it's one of those cultural nuances I'll never be able to get - and I dont understand the Japanese at all. Or maybe Yuzuru is truly sui generis. And that's ok. He certainly has helped us idle away a few hours lol...

Could someone please start a Hanyu thread? The obsession with this guy is too much for the FS threads.

Well, I'll try to change the subject - Conrad Orzel is DROP DEAD GORGEOUS !!! I hope he doesn't run into injuries and drop out of skating. And I must say Stephane Lambiel has excellent taste if he's hooked up with him somehow (should Deniss Vasiljevs be jealous?)

Johnny Weir has been gracing the sidewalks of Philadelphia in this fabulous white lace ensemble. What exquisite taste! No wonder he went into fashion design.

R247 That's Conrad Orzel? I was wondering who that was.

R248 I have a soft spot for Johnny because I started watching FS as a little kid when he was still skating and all the shit he faced about his style and orientation make him completely taste-proof for me. So even though I can see why he might seem outrageous, I never find him ridiculous like I would anyone else wearing what he wears because he's earned the right to do whatever he wants, in my mind.

Speaking of the Canadian men, is it a given Messing is going to be on top? I hope Lambiel takes on more skaters after watching Deniss performances. Will he ever coach women as well? The surrounding landscape of his skating school in Champéry is breathtaking.

I also respect Johnny. He gets more shit for the same stuff any other person would do, just because it's easy to deride a flamboyant gay man. He's done a lot for the sport, and for all the Hanyu lovers here, he's also done a lot for Hanyu. And as for fashiony stuff... well, I don't pretend to understand his taste, but it's no weirder than other haute couture fashion that is outrageous and charges stupid prices. At least his taste is shared by our apparent favorite skater from Japan.

Anyway, for all the weeaboos who want to introspect on the enigma of the Otherworldly Japanese - they're people, just like you and me. If you must, you can try comparing the whole social shame and stigma thing to maybe a strict religious community in the US or something. Plenty of people born in Japan have outgoing, loud personalities, and you can be perfectionist while being aware that you're not perfect. It's plenty common to say you're lonely when you are taught to believe that everyone needs to have a boyfriend/girlfriend and get married and you're a loser if you don't. Extroverted people say "I'm lonely" all the time. People here do it and people over there are people too, it's not that hard and it's not "soul-bearing". Y'all need to stop studying his character and projecting this fantasy that being Japanese means he's some sort of alien.

Anyone following Aliona's IG stories? She's dropping a lot of them but they all look pretty boring.

I wonder why Uno seems to be popping up all over Canada these days? Has he found a different jump coach?

Hating Plushenko seems to be increasingly en vogue these days. Partly because of the child discipline thing and partly because he is "homophobic"? I just discovered a picture of him in a minnie mouse dress and ears and he looks pretty secure in his masculinity lol. I don't know why there is such extremes in loving or hating skaters online. YuZU Is So MYsTERiouS anD PerfeCtest HuMan Alive And MiShA is PerFect ProteCt EvGenia but PlushEnkO is HorrIBle and JohnnY Said the Most DisGusting ThinG Ever!

Also, has Jason always been this active on twitter? It's everyday and sometimes several times a day. No vlogs at the moment.

Back to my new eye candy - I wish I were a better analyst of skating, but Conrad Orzel will be 18 on July 11, and the link is a JPG event from this past August. He did an ok quad toe and fell on his second quad - but his triple axel looks high and quite good to me. He's a bit rushed but maybe that's a junior thing. Looks like he'd be ready to move to seniors and compete for Canada this season - I mean, how old do they let you be to stay in juniors? And he's got at least one quad - I don't know the type he fell on.

God, with looks like that, who cares if he can skate - just give him high PCS like you do the Russian girls, no matter what, judges, 'kay? But he's definitely not bad imo - I just don't know how good he is. But the competition in Canada, I mean... well, I like Messing and he's posting his quad axel all over social media, so maybe he's gonna whip it out this season, but I've heard the only quad he has otherwise (or the only other good one) is a toe and that he's wild with it. In any case, he's an interesting character-type skater and certainly offers some variety. Hope he does well - but bring on Orzel !!! Fix his artistry, Stephane, we know you could do it!

OK, mea culpa, R251 - I'll try to chill on fanyuing all over the place, but you can't really do anything but uber-gush on the boards that are either devoted to him or have threads about him. I think hanyu-fever will start dying soon - there's no Olympics and especially when the buildup to Beijing starts, well, as someone upthread said, surely he won't be in the hunt, and others will take the spotlight. I also love Shoma but there's never much to find out about him -- I didn't know he'd been in Canada. That's weird. And last year he did the current ice show in Japan but he's skipping it this time (Nathan's in it, like last year). Oh and our favorite bracelet flutzgirl Med.

But more than wondering about Uno, I'm surprised there's nothing about Boyang. I've tried to figure out his social media, and it looks like he's into retail -- modeling clothes and looking all sexy and stuff. Which is absolutely NOT what I expected! I wonder if he is trying to raise some capital for his westward move? And I'm worrying that the recent unpleasantness with China vs the ISU might mean his moving to Orser is no longer a sure thing? Looks like he should get on up there instead of hanging around in China.

Agree on Aljona - I was enjoying her Instagram for a while but it did get a little blah - the Olympic Channel even handed their IG over to her for a while. Oh well, can't blame a girl for trying, she's at the new ice show with Nathan and Med too. and oh boy Jason. I love him so much but I worry... ditto about Johnny Weir. He was so mistreated it made me give up watching figure skating till Pyeongchang - and I think he's absolutely brilliant and so witty. I also love his partnership with Tara and I've even been watching his current show, Wedding Cake Competition - or whatever it's called - on the food network - as I expected, he and Tara are the only good thing about it. But anything for Johnny... I'll try to shut up about Hanyu but it's hard... he's so babyface cuuuute!!

Anyone excited about Gracie Gold and Daisuke Takahashi returning to competition this fall? On the forums everyone's being so positive, but I doubt that either one of them is going to be truly competitive. I'll be really surprised if Gracie Gold can land a triple flip or triple lutz again. Last year, she couldn't even do a double axel. Well, if they actually show up to the competitions, it will bring some excitement.

As for Canada, I remember being disappointed with the bad quality of skating in both their men's and ladies events at Nationals earlier this year. There was all this talk about Gogolev and Phan, but their general skating skills seemed subpar. At this point, it looks like Keegan Messing is a lock to finally win the gold, with maybe Nam Nguyen in second place if he can land his jumps. That was sad that Nam did not even make it to qualifying that worlds.

R205, you must have forgotten Ms. Hughes’ ill-fated post-Olympic season, where she failed yet again to win a National Championship (eking out a silver) and then scrapping by with a 6th place finish at 2013 Worlds. Heck, even Ms. Hughes knew that her OGM would be outweighed by her chronic underrotation issues, no national championship titles and a World Bronze in 2001 that she lucked into without finishing in the top 3 in either the SP or the LP portions of the event. How else can you explain that Hail Mary 2002-2003 season?

[quote] I hope Lambiel takes on more skaters after watching Deniss performances. Will he ever coach women as well?

He coaches the Latvian girl, Diana Nikitina, FWIIW....she can't even get the minimum TES for Worlds but she went to Olympics (and failed to qualify for FS)

R255, I'm quite excited about Gracie Gold's comeback. I trust that she's working with a great medical team who's cleared her return. She's a perfectionist, and I don't think she's try to come back unless she truly felt ready. I don't expect her to win everything, but I think she'll do better than Polina at her GP.

With Alyssa Liu so young and Mirai and Ashley likely retiring, the US women's field is incredibly weak. It's a great time for her to start coming back.

[R252] Those U.S. SOI skaters were a bad influence

Semi-interesting tidbit: Javier Fernandez has a lookalike older sister, Laura Fernandez, who also competed internationally. She's still involved with skating and has been certified by the ISU as a tech specialist. So if we see someone who looks like Javi in drag start to show up on judging panels here and there, it's her.

They did an exhibition program together once, which you can find on YT. Javi could forge a decent second career as an ice dancer if he wanted.

R260 Has she got promoted from International TS to ISU TS at this week Frankfurt seminar?

Last season she called at Open of Andorra in both Men and Ladies.

ISU held the seminar for re-appointment of Technical Controllers and Technical Specialists this week

IIRC to get re-appointment you need to attend an ISU seminar in the last 3 years and having served as TC/TS in 2 competitions (also counting National one) in the last 2 years.

Mind you, the Tech Specialists who served at ISU Championships (Worlds, Euros, 4 Continents, GP Final) and Olympics don't need to attend the seminar as the mini-seminar that they receive pre-competition there counts towards re-appointment requirement.

So it was a seminar mainly for international TC/TS and those not rated by ISU as good enough to be nominated for an ISU Championships in the last 3 years.

They also held the seminar and exam for new appointments of new International TC/TS and for promotion from International to ISU TC/TS

R256 I stand corrected then. I thought she spent her final year juggling Yale and skating, like what Chen is trying to do, which is why it didn't go so well although she was never the best skater. But without her OGM, the public would have never heard of her so I think it's fair to say winning OGM was an important moment even if she didn't stick around long and went into a totally different field.

Here's a clip from Tomono's new sp choreographed by Misha Ge. There was an earthquake and he had to stop briefly but it's not in the clip.

ISU trying to explain the +/-5 GOE

Examples used for positive bullets

JUMPS

1) very good height and very good length (of all jumps in a combo or sequence) Hanyu

2) good take-off and landing: Medvedeva

3) effortless throughout (including rhythm in Jump combination) : Fernandez

4) steps before the jump, unexpected or creative entry : Hanyu

5) very good body position from take-off to landing : Kostner

6) element matches the music : Medvedeva

SPINS

1) good speed and/or acceleration during spin: Loena Hendricxs

2) good controlled, clear position(s) (inc. height and air/landing position in flying spin): Myhara

3) effortless throughout: Keegan Messing

4) maintaining a centered spin: Higuchi

5) creativity and originality: Rippon

6) element matches the music : Brezina

CHOREO SEQUENCE

1) creativity and originality: Ge

2) element matches the music: Zagitova

3) effortless throughout with good energy, flow and execution : Jorik

4) good ice coverage : Rizzo

5) good clarity and precision: Myhara

6) excellent commitment and control of the whole body: Jorik

STEP SEQUENCE

1) deep edges, clean steps and turns: Chan

2) element matches the music : Giada Russo

3) effortless throughout with good energy, flow and execution: Chan

4) creativity and originality : Osmond

5) excellent commitment and control of the whole body : Kolyada

6) good acceleration and deceleration : Ge

Nathan Chen is not an example in any bullet point of jumps, yet Medvedeva is in two? I thought she didn't even do the takeoff right in her flutz. I guess we can assume she has the judges in her back pocket, no matter what. I hate her jumps! Glad to see my boy Kolyada get a step sequence kudo.

this one is the ISU video for Pairs bullets

Jorik and Rizzo? Meh.

Javi and his sister are really beautiful. Is there anything that family can't steal our hearts for? I hope Javi stays in the figure skating world for a long time.

Why is Ge in 2 points. He has musicality but that's about it. Hanyu deserves to be there at least for step sequence and not just jumps. He always has intricate footwork and very good flow.

We could not find anything good about Chen-bot and Uno

R269 I'm pretty sure they limited mentions of skaters to no more than two in the whole list. Some odd choices though imo. No Jin Boyang and I thought his Lutz was great - Kolyada's is gorgeous but it doesn't often land. Hanyu's take offs and especially landings are my favorite (other than Kolyada) but he already had his two mentions I guess.

So true, Fabio and Susan. Throw Med in there, as well. Her jumps look so weird - low, muscled with her arms, wrong edges, hideous tanos...

R265 do you have a link? I'd like to read more

Here's the video of the webinar with the examples for the judges, R273.

In the Pairs webinar they picked Laura Barquero/Aritz Maestu...Miriam Ziegler/Severin Kiefer...and Hocke/Blommaert (twice) as examples

Oh man, the link was already there -- sorry. Apparently all the examples were drawn from Worlds and the Olympics.

Single, yes.

In Pairs they had also examples from Euros, GP (for ex Denney/Frazier from Skate Canada) and I think also one from Junior Worlds (an Asian pair I don't know)

The Ice Dance ISU video is better. It is clearer. They show an element and then they identify the positive and negative features and finally they say the GOE it should receive.

ouch, they are showing poor Junior couples and then "do you find any positive features?" "No? Me neither"

Thank you for posting these videos.

"the worst of the worst"....video from some unknown duo at Junior GP...."well, you can give them -4 if you are generous but it wouldn't be fair to others"

R260 R261

Replying to myself, yes, I see that Laura Fernandez got the promotion from International to ISU Technical Specialist at Frankfurt seminar. So from now on, she can be appointed to Worlds, Euros, 4CCs and GPs

In Ice Dance, Stefano Caruso and Ivan Volobuev (a second tier Russian ice dancer from early 2010s) passed the exam to become International Technical Specialists. It would mean judging in Senior Bs

Just when the Hanyu-Medvedeva's gossip was dying down, Hanyu's trainer/physical therapist Kikuchi gave a lecture today where he told the audience that there's nothing between Hanyu and Medvedeva like the tabloids described(!). How or why he brought up the topic at a physical therapy seminar is unclear.

Lee Tze Ching is also among those promoted to ISU Technical Specialist this week.

Her peak was 37th at 4 Continents and 50th at Junior Worlds in 2010

Fernandez's sister had a 21th at Junior Worlds, 28th at Euros and she once made to Senior Worlds.

I think I am supposed to know the woman in the middle of the pic when they are holding certificates. I've seen her somewhere.

And yes, Laura looks like Javier in drag

What is Mariah Bell up to these days?

R285 Getting choreo from Shae Lynn Bourne

R283 hey, don't tell me he's become a lecturer. I hope he won't be Misha Ge ver2.

Who is in second pic with Tomono? And are they wearing lipstick in last pic?

R283: I’d fire that trainer.

He has been Hanyu's physical therapist for years and never once made this kind of comment in the past, so if he is doing it now it's probably with Hanyu's approval. Western fans can keep bullying everyone into loving the Ge/Medvedeva/Hanyu unit, it's obvious the latter is pissed off at them and the rumors. He was just as ice cold when there were rumors of him and a high school female classmate dating in 2016. I think he hates people making up lies about him and/or using him for pr more than anything else.

If Hanyu's therapist said something maybe the Medvedeva rumors bothered Hanyu more than we know. I am a western fan of his and some Hanyu fans are crazy. If you don't like his "friends" then you are a bad fan.

Hanyu is a faggot. It is obvious

Didn't realize Ashley Cain was such an airhead. She's posting make-up tips from Kylie Jenner. gag. Bye, girl.

At least she is not getting make up tips from Tanaka

R291: Medeva is underage

I doubt Medvedeva being 18 (meaning still underage in Japan) is the only reason he dislikes being associated with her as he reacted exactly the same to a dating rumor with a same age classmate. I believe he is gay too but I also don't think that's the reason why he is so adamant when it comes to denying dating rumors.

R288 Maybe pairs skater Shoya Ichihashi.

What makes it even more weird is that the physical therapist was crying as he said it. I doubt it's about Western fans and silly shipping rumors which the general public and fans in Japan don't believe. Kikuchi naming Medvedeva is kind of shocking. You would normally say "another skater" or "a Russian skater. " Neither Kikuchi nor Hanyu defended Medvedeva or had kind words for her in their statements, which is also weird because Hanyu scolded the press for causing trouble for his classmate when they wrote stories about her. That's making Med fans angry and turning into anti-Hanyus. Both skaters should be at TCC this week.

I feel sad for Tanaka. He is a good looking guy and seems to be a real sweetheart but without the talent of Hanyu, Shoma or even younger skaters like Kazuki and now with Takahashi coming back he will probably fade even more into obscurity.

I think Hanyu discovered the extent of her obssession with him (all the creepy manips she and Ge liked for the past 2 years) after fans started digging out examples of it recently. Until then he was probably blissfully naive about his friendship with her and Misha.

R298 at least he got the Olympic partecipation that Mura and Murakami never managed. It was this year or never as I doubt he would be still in contention in 2022.

R297 thanks, he looked quite hot in that pic

R297 Do you have a source on that Kikuchi crying? I find it a bit too much to be honest. Unless the media/paparazzi have been truly awful and harassing Hanyu and his family because of the rumor.

R296 The rumor about his classmate was that they were engaged and she'd had an abortion for him. Reporters hounded him when he was traveling and Fuji was reporting the story on their TV news program. There have been tabloid stories about Medvedeva but nothing at that level and this was the first time Hanyu brought it up on his own. The tabloids also started in Russia, not Japan.

I think he saw it coming this time around and to avoid for it to get as bad as the last time he chose the proactive approach. Anyway the abortion thing wasn't even a rumor but the usual bullcrap lie coming from some anonymous board that spread around. Not even sure it was even linked to the same girl. But let's cool down on the Hanyu drama for now.

I’m one of the posters that complain about the Hanyu fan squealing. The physical therapist comments are interesting. Something bizarre is going down.

“Neither Kikuchi nor Hanyu defended Medvedeva or had kind words for her in their statements“

What statements and why was a defense needed?

Medieval may start missing her Russian gulag skating school that offered her protection

Where are you all getting the info about Kikuchi? Links please, if possible, even if they aren't English links....

R301 That's from someone who was at the seminar. Kikuchi was also complaining about false stories and harassment he experienced at a lecture last month. He also tweeted about it and wrote an article in his blog but deleted both and said so in his twitter. There are screencaps. The Medvedeva thing is new.

R303 The abortion thing was a rumor started on hate forums which the tabloid ran with and harassed his classmate about according to the classmate's father. Same girl.

I think if Hanyu really wants to avoid Medvedeva at all costs even while staying at TCC it should be feasible. They rent and train at more than one rink and have individual ice time apart from common class like the stroking lesson. He should be fine provided she didn't also invade his apartment block like was reported at one point. Will be interested to see the developments of this mess in the months to come.

If i was her, i d feel stupid . She was trolling him lately with misha and all those statements are caused by her.

R309: Does this teenager need to be embarrassed like this? It could be discussed behind closed doors with no public comment needed. While I maintain she should not be anywhere near a podium, she doesn’t need some trainer trashing her at a seminar.

Sorry, the deleted tweets and entries came not from Kikuchi but a Twitter and blog from a physical therapist from Osaka at the June seminar. But the tweets appear to be photos of Kikuchi's presentation that talks about the media and harassment since the 2014 Olympics. It looks more like diary entries than a professional powerpoint. I 've found the photos.

Kikuchi is the old man who's always by Hanyu's side during competitions.

I'm probably being insensitive or missing something, but I feel like even if Med/Misha are doing everything they're accused of - shipping, bracelets etc., these things, while annoying, aren't so egregious as to warrant this kind of reaction from Kikuchi. Hanyu's reaction in denying the rumors was fine and done lightly (at least to my western eyes), but this seems like a bit much if we're just talking about the Med stuff. I feel like there must be something else.

R311: So a physical therapist reported what the trainer said in a seminar? If that discussion happened, it’s way out of line.

Kikuchi didn't trash Medvedeva. He and Hanyu just haven't said how these "stories" are rude and unfair to her, which is what you would expect to Hanyu and how he responded to rumors in the past. But I think Kikuchi is getting too emotional and involved. The seminar is not the place to talk about Medvedeva and he could have just talked about tabloids or media pressure in a general sense.

R312 he didn't trash her just reiterated that there is nothing going on between her and Hanyu. Not sure what warranted his comment but as someone who has been supporting Hanyu silently for years while seeing him get trashed constantly by Japanese media and antis alike, he maybe just finally snapped. His last comment according to the tweet posted above is a general one about how much Yuzuru suffered in the process of getting his OGM.

R315 I think you're right. I didn't mean I thought he was trashing Med, just commenting on his tearful reaction. Rather than looking at this as some sort of coordinated response from Hanyu and his trainer, it's more likely that the trainer is old and fond of Hanyu and got emotional about all the rumors swirling around him, especially after what Hanyu said at his ice show about how this stuff affects him. My late, beloved grandfather lived with us for a short time when I was young and when someone would call me on the landline, he would provide mortifying details about where I was, what I was probably doing and my general emotional state. I'm not Hanyu and this trainer probably should know better, but I'm thinking it's something like that.

Christ...you guys are still talking about Hanyu and Med and Japanese tabloid crap? Zzzzzz....

Apparently Stolbova and Klimov are over - she posted an Instastory yesterday of her skating with some mediocre dude and there are rumors that he has a new partner as well.

R300 True about him at least getting the Olympic spot. Poor Mura didn't get that chance. I'm just really fond of Tanaka and feeling a bit concerned for him next season. And also because he isn't really a media type so it's not like he could really capitalize on being an Olympian to advance his career.

R317 apparently the new partner is Andrei Novoselov? Has this been confirmed?

R319 He doesn't look lek Novoselov

I find the Hanyu story interesting. Probably because he is one of my favorite skaters after Johnny Weir. I think Hanyu has been through a lot. We have no idea how much he has been hurting either.

Those are my favorite two skaters too, R321, and I'm especially interested in them. They seem to catch so much more grief than the others (or maybe I don't pay close enough attention to the others to know what they've been through - Takahashi seems to have had a difficult road, but I was mostly unaware of him till his recent tv work and then comeback announcement.)

Weir was so brilliant and I felt like the powers that be were deadset against him and did everything they could to trip him up. With Hanyu, there also seems to be so much more "anti" kind of behaviors that I just don't understand - I think if I could speak Japanese I'd have a better picture of what he's been through. I keep hearing that most of the problems come from Japanese and other foreign sources. I can't figure out why they'd single him out for hatred, which reminds me of Weir. It's hard not to sympathize when someone seems to be mistreated from so many quarters.

Yuzuru is a short program skater. His fs' are all the same. And they blame papadakis/cizeron for having the same fs' all the time

Can we please start a separate Hanyu thread so those who are interested in the whole tabloid thing can discuss it and it will stop taking over the general figure skating thread?

Why do we need a separate Hanyu thread? Just scroll over the comments about him. I have zero interest in pairs and dance and have no problem scrolling over comments about them.

R323 that's the most idiotic and untrue argument I have seen against his skating in a while. How is his Romeo and Juliet from 2011/2012 anything like his Phantom of the Opera and how is the latter anything like Seimei or Hope and Legacy. You can accuse him of recycling for the Olympic season (even though in the end that was the smart thing to do) but saying he is a SP skater when he has had just as much variety and breakthrough moments with his FS in his career is really dumb.

R322 Yeah the hate Hanyu gets in Japan is similar to what Weir got from the US at the time. The only difference is that he also has legions of fans to compensate but really his antis are nasty and relentless. Both Hanyu and Weir are too emotional, sensitive and flamboyant with a feminine presentation on the ice (and off the ice for Weir) and those are a magnet for haters most of the time. Some Hanyu fans from the West argue that he isn't perceived as feminine in Japan but that's only partially true. While the media and fan narrative is to present him as some strong minded popular cool guy, the truth is that a lot of Japanese men find him weird/feminine. They don't like the costumes, the pooh bear, the excessive tears and overdramatic gestures etc. Many use the expression 'kimoi' or 'kimochi warui' to describe him (it means 'it makes me sick', 'gives me the creeps') or call him a tranny. So yeah pretty similar to the insults Weir got and still gets quite often.

R327. Thanks. You and the other Japanese speaking poster on this forum provide a lot of interesting information on the Japanese skaters that I really appreciate.

Johnny still gets crap. From Homophobes because he's flamboyant, from weeaboos because he praised Satoko as a perfectionist who trains so hard she forgets to eat or rest and that is now apparently the "most disgusting thing they've ever heard". The delusion of moral superiority these fangurls have in bashing the smallest slip up from a western man is mindblowing, especially considering how shamelessly they defend Misha/Med's pure friendship with Hanyu. He either talks too much or is too sassy or has an annoying voice or whatever, he just can't win when it's so easy to hate on a flamboyant gay man.

I hope Tanaka really picks up some more confidence. The Olympic channel commentator woman said it bluntly: he has a problem selling some of his programs, and I think it comes from crippling shyness. Just get lost in the zone like oblivious little Shoma, Keiji! Also the aristocratic vest look adds to the blandness of his look. He should go back to sheer, skintight stuff to help create some lines.

Saw Nathan's new program. Kid may have potential, but I'm still not convinced that he's able to emotionally invest in his movements. Maybe it's an awkward teenager thing, but maybe Uno is an outlier in being an awkward teenager who gets scary absorbed in his programs aside from the ladies. Hanyu could, but he looks so flail-y to me. Please use the rest of your upper body, Yuzuru.

Uno's new program also looks incomplete but he still throws himself into it in a way that's engaging to watch. I'm torn on Tomono's new program - I see that Misha has passed down the Jerky Arms and don't know how to feel about it. It worked for Ave Maria for me but can Tomono pull it off without it being a gimmick? Hm.

Someone plz tell Med to stop posting so many TCC photos, I'm starting to feel bad for some of the skaters that are paying good money to have the privacy there.

Who is Med photographing at TCC against their consent? She's not even in Toronto now and I don't see any recent posts she's made there. WTF are you talking about and why don't you bitch about Jason taking photos there?

Conrad Orzel posts from TCC frequently...so does Joseph Phan. Hell, click on the location tag & you'll see plenty of skaters posting there. But god forbid evil Evgenia do it.

[R327] thank you for your post! I had no idea Hanyu went through all that. I remember also Johnny getting so much crap when he skated. From fellow skaters, announcers and other skating fans.

(323) I meant the style. The way he moves .The music to Romeo and juliet is different then seimei but choreo and style is similar. Sorry no offence. I find his FS ' boring .for me he is a SP skater. They are much more interesting. The long is too long for him i suppose ;)

R325, I DO scroll over a bunch of it, but it fills up the threads quickly and there's other stuff going on. Yeesh, I'm not saying you can't talk about it, I'm simply suggesting that it get its own damn thread. Then you won't have to read about things like pairs, which bore you.

Papadakis/Cizeron are working with Lambiel in Toronto right now

I'm with R334.

I love the way Hanyu moves on the ice--he's unique and unlike any other figure skater I've ever seen.

And for those of you who only want to talk about pairs and dance, why don't you start a thread dedicated to those disciplines?

R328 R332 You're welcome. Anyway I'm not saying it's the main reason he is getting hate because in truth he gets probably more from fans of other Japanese skaters/representatives of other skating holds (Takahashi/Nagoya fans) than he does from random Japanese men who don't like that he makes them feel weird. It's just that at times it seems too much the hate he gets from so many different sides that you wonder what the hell did he ever do to deserve that crap. And then you have idiotic Western fans who want to live in their fantasy land where all is fine and dandy and censor things coming from the Japanese side of the fandom. They went as far as bullying a translator for translating his words at his ice show back in April to 'committed suicide' while actually that translator was way less off than all the others who tried to minimize what he said (he said something along the lines of 'I tried to die many times' and that part was cut from the broadcast version which tells you how strongly it was received). So yeah the Japanese skating fandom is tiring because it's drama central 24/7 but Western fans with their 'na na na can't hear you' head in the sand attitude are just as annoying.

I dont say i hate the way he moves. I like very much, only he is much more intresting in shorts. The choreo, his personality..

R333 But that's factually wrong. Nothing apart from some of his signature elements like the Biellmann spin or the hydroblade is similar in any of his long programs. Again you can make a case that he recycled his SPs too much especially Chopin but he has always shown great diversity in his FS. The only issue he had and still does sometimes is that he lacks stamina (because of his asthma) towards the end of long programs. For him to be compared to Cizeron/Papadakis who look like they haven't changed choreo in the past 3 seasons is unfair.

Most Of his Fs seem to much alike for me sorry

If you can post in this thread, you can create a new thread. Please create one about Hanyu.

Pc havent change the choreo in the past 3 years??lol are you fan Of moron Scott or tessa?? They changed. They had completely different choreo, just similar style. Just Like hanyu. But fs of pc are much more intresting even if the same. Hanyus shorts are better for instancje. PS i dont talk about biellman or such things

Let's watch them before they are taken down by copyright reasons

Sakamato new FS

Mai Mihara SP

Rika Kihira FS

Tanaka FS

If lambiel is gonna make choreo for tango...no. thy should work with some real tango dancer from south america Like russians in 1997

R343 Then what are you talking about. Music choice, rhythm, step and choreo sequence and even jump layout (apart from the first 3 jump passes) have all been different in his long programs so unless you mean that for you Japanese music is all the same hence why you feel his fs have been similar these past 3 seasons, then I have no clue what you mean. On the other hand Papadakis/Cizeron have stayed with very similar music and layout choices and that aside from the snip snip incident is what cost them the gold in Pyeongchang. And I say that as someone who prefers them to Scott and Moir.

R257 Thank you! She looks quite tall for a singles lady though height hasn't stopped Kostner. I know Lambiel has choreographed for the Shibs but what other singles skaters have choreographed for dance and pairs? Does it usually work out?

The Tomono SP by Ge is very underwhelming considering the hype. It's completely Misha Ge but I was expecting a more energetic hip hop or dance-ish program when the Japanese federation approached the choreographer. They could have gone to anyone else for that type of piece. Tomono needs a showstopper to beat Takahashi (and Tanaka) if the latter gets back to form.

I am disapppointed we won't get that Tango Romantica by the Shibs

I haven't seen Tomono's SP yet but I will be sad for him if he loses his chance of a 3rd spot at Worlds because his team chose to trust Ge over a more experienced choreographer.

Thanks for the links R344. Sakamoto's has potential, but she's not feeling it yet, but I think it's interesting. Miyahara's skating beautifully, but oh I hate that music--high fructose corn syrup. Rika's little jumps don't work with the big stormy music.

Tomono SP

So Tango Romantica sounds like it's a boon for Hubbell/Donohue--but does anyone think they have a shot at beating P/C at any point during the season? Seems like it would also help Chock and Bates, maybe a Russian team as well.

I'm not expecting a lot of surprises in ice dance this season, but who knows. Maybe Gilles/Poirier will have a breakthrough doing some weird 1960s tango music. They really are the drama kids of ice dance.

Jesus ,for you sensei is completely different then Hope and legacy because they have different layout????LOL i dont say about layout, spins . Of course steps re different. They must be. But they look similar. Both programs are in the same mood. When you turn off the music, you will see the same. Maybe because those tracks have no characteristics notes. Chopin for instance ,slow music but he hits every note . IT Has amazing moments, no noodle boring choreo, you cannot mistake it with sensei right? When i saw h&l I couldnt stop thinking about sensei. The PofO is the copy of Romeo And juliet for me.

R355 I expect Gilles/Poirier to have a breakthrough but that's because they will do the GP as top Canadian team and Skate Canada is known to strictly follow their internal ranking (see Weaver/Poje dropping to bottom top 10 when V/M came back and then in one month raising to top 3 again)

And whats more Prince and gary Moore parisian walkways are different too.

How much can Stepanova and Sinistina can stay rigid while dragged around in a Tango?

Will Zagorski choose a red dress that match her hair colour and Guerreiro's tan?

I would hardly call Misha an inexperienced choreographer.

That's pathetic. Now gillies/poires will score 75+ coz there are no better canadian pair i see those 10s in gpf in vancouver

The Hanyu fangulrs need to leave this thread. Head to GoldenSkate where you'll be at home with all the frauge, and fucking stop spamming this thread.

Anyway, I am fucking livid!!! I went to the L.A Open and skating moms are openly bribing the judges with fresh food and doughnuts. You can't do that! The officials told me is was courtesy. No it wasn't. It might be a club competition but you judge should be getting treats for a competitor's family. I am going to write a very nasty letter to the SCLA.

R357, Yeah, I was never a big fan of Weaver/Poje, but they were treated like crap by the Canadian Federation. The US Fed kind of left it open--whichever team skated best at the Olympics was the likely bronze. This helped, I think, H/D at worlds.

I'm rooting for C/B to have a comeback. They've never been my favorite team, but they've been up and down the roller coaster, just brutal to watch and they sound like nice people, FWIW

no judge* should be getting treats* from a skating family*

Will the Parsons try to circunavitage the siblings thing in the Tango Romantica or just ingore it presenting a Tango version with a boy and a truck driver?

Last time ISU picked the Tango Romantica was 2010 Olympic season. There were lots of siblings (the Kerrs, the Reeds, the Zaretsky, some German siblings only their parents remember)

The Kerrs went for the "fuck off ISU, you chose Tango Romantica and now don't feel embaressed by brother-sisters being sexy and flirt"

That's one passage of their Tango

if your mom does better cakes than your rivals' mothers, you can get better PCS... is it how this works at club competitions?

R365, Oh, man, the Kerrs--the "I've been Everywhere" OD closing pose--yeah, definitely the "what's a little incest?" team.

R366 it was the "country" OD, right?

R362 Sorry for your pain, but I had to laugh at your telling off Hanyu "fangurls and fraus," only to turn your heels to write a VERY huffy letter to SCLA about food and donuts at the skating club competition. In any case, food and donuts are an amateur's game. You need to look into the Texas Mom's Cheerleading Handbook for how to plant drugs and hire assassins.

[quote]Both programs are in the same mood.

OK, I have to bite this. I'm doubting your eyes and ears, r356. The moods of these two programs are practically opposite. Seimei's a character-driven, warrior type of program with lots of that magic/fighting type of movement, and the 2016/17 one is a completely introvert, lyrical type with much more fluid movement. Quite a few Hanyu's FS's are similar, but to illustrate the point you took the two that actually stand out as different?

R366--Yep. Sinead Kerr even got a tramp stamp for it at her coach's suggestion.

Wow - I just watched Dave Lease's latest video (linked) and he said Boyang is NOT going to Orser anymore - and that's what Orser (or Orser's people) are outright saying though the Chinese fed doesn't know it yet ??? He seemed to think it 'might' be because Boyang stayed with Lori Nichol a long time, that she was his choreographer, and Orser is just not going to work with an outside choreographer like that - that Boyang would have had to work with his team.

I had wondered when the hell Boyang would show up - and what little I could figure out from his social media was modeling poses with jeans and cool earrings and - oh I don't remember exactly but my jaw dropped - like cool boy model stuff. Of all people.... Easier to imagine that on Han Yan -- who, btw, IS coming back to work toward Beijing, at least so he says, though he doesn't have a GP assignment. Anyway, I'm flustered.... but if it's true, then it's really a big deal imo.

But I had wondered before if the big blow up over the ISU getting onto the Chinese judges or suspending them or whatever -- I just assume that would be the reason Boyang didn't go to Orser, assuming that's true - but Dave seemed to insist it WAS true and Boyang will not go to Toronto.

Just whoa boy. AND as a tinhat idea - could Hanyu have finally gotten back to Orser on Boyang - Remember when Orser said he didn't ask Hanyu about Boyang, he just told him and assumed he'd hear about it if there was a problem. Maybe that either pissed the Hanyu team off OR suggested to Hanyu that he could stop it if he wanted to. (I don't really believe that, but frankly, I don't know what to believe - the Lori Nichols thing seems too easy to change, if that's why Orser nixed the Boyang thing.

Forgot the link to Dave Lease's latest - with the news about Boyang:

R372 If that's true, the Chinese are going be absolutely furious that some skating fan on youtube heard it first. The Chinese fed is much scarier than Eteri with the next Olympics in Beijing. Wasn't Boyang in Toronto for a while? Perhaps Orser or the team saw something they didn't like. Or felt the Chinese fed or Boyang's coaches weren't allowing them the freedom to train him as they would like. This is very disappointing if true.

[R338] was the translator on Twitter? Iron Klause? (sp) if so I saw those people giving them a hard time. They translated Hanyu saying I tried to die many times. I took that as he tried to take his life on more than one occasion. Which is very sad if true. I can't stand most of the western fans of his on Twitter. They think they know Hanyu better than anyone else. Maybe they think they know Hanyu better than he knows himself? They're crazy fans.

R372: Wouldn’t Boyang have known about being stuck with Dave Wilson before now?

TSL seemed to hedge a little on their supposed inside scoop that Boyang isn't going. Said the word from TCC is that he isn't going, but that this could simply be a ploy by TCC to gain greater control over the whole choreography thing. Seems implausible but who knows with this off season.

I'm going to state 2 obvious points since a handful of you can't seem to figure it out.

Most of the people who are talking about Hanyu probably have the people who are bitching about it blocked. The ones who haven't blocked you, don't give a shit about you so you're constant whining only serves to bog the thread down more. If anything, those of you who are being dicks about not getting your way are probably encouraging them to talk about Hanyu even more.

It's a lot easier to control your own actions than those of a bunch of strangers who have no incentive to do anything for you. If the Hanyu talk bothers you so much then either A) Block the people who are talking about it B) Start a new non-Hanyu thread C) go somewhere else. None of these options are difficult.

Thank you R378. How can you have a "figure skating" thread and never discuss the biggest name in figure skating, who's actually one the more interesting skaters, both on and off the ice? It's like having a "basketball" thread but jumping down the throat of anyone who mentions LeBron James because they're sick of him or something. I just don't get it. It feels like some of the army of Hanyu haters just make it their part-time career to track down any remote mentions of the guy and throw a hissy fit.

Anyway, regarding R376 's point Lori Nichol has choreographed all of Gabby’s programs in the past four years and Brian is totally fine with Jason’s SP by Rohene. That reason for the falling out (if there's been one) doesn't make any sense. The recent upheaval in China over canceling their junior and GP event all happened after the announcement of Boyang going to Orser - it would be weird to me if that was just a coincidence.

What the fuck is this? Golden Skate? You can talk about Hanyu all you want, but you cannot hijack this thread with mindless essay long posts that have nothing to do with Skating. Shut the fuck up and start your own Hanyu thread if you think Figure Skating talk gets in the way of your mindless dribble.

Anyway, let's talk about a Japanese that actually has a personality.

r380 how fucking stupid are you? It's hard to decide which line of that post is more idiotic but I'll stick to the primary topic. They absolutely can hijack this thread. There is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it.

I'm not even one of the people talking about him but I come here to read about skaters and at least they're talking about the topic rather than filling the thread up with a bunch of crying.

I don't care if you want to continue being a whiny bitch but it would be much more productive for you to do something that actually has a chance to resolve this particular issue for you, though I suspect that your real problems aren't fixable.

I don't put lot of stock into TSL in general. Most of what they say you can find on fan forums and even with the little I've seen of them, they've often said things that are wrong or at least so colored by their bias that you can't take it seriously.

The choreographer conflict theory doesn't make any sense to me but I wish it were true. I'm so sick of Lori Nichol's formulaic crap. Whatever we can do to weed her out will be a step forward for skating.

R379 Gabby and Jason aren't really Brian's students so maybe that makes a difference? Still seems farfetched that the fallout would be over a choreographer. Unless Brian thought that the programs Lori choreographed for Boyang were shit and the Chinese fed wouldn't let him change them. Considering the majority of Lori's programs are shit, seems more likely than it just being an ego thing.

r377 Leaking to TSL to pressure the Chinese into changing the choreography just doesn't seem likely. It would be foolish to set off the Chinese of all federations with their history of retaliation. The only other theory I can think of aside from something happening during Boyang's Toronto visit is that training Boyang would require a lot of resources and time, and now that Medvedeva and Brown have joined TCC, Orser thinks it's just too much. Still, it would be unfair to let Boyang go when he was the first to sign on and most likely to go to and medal at the next Olympics, so that seems unlikely. In any case, TSL has been right about the coaching changes this season and they clearly have someone on the inside at TCC. Even if they are wrong, there may be drama once this rumor spreads to the Chinese fed and fans, if it hasn't already.

Maybe the Chinese fed decided it wasn't worth the expense to send Boyang to Canada this season or they just want to keep a tighter rein on him. Could be a lot of factors. The Chinese fed is not known for transparency.

Stolbova us indeed skating with Novoselov. Klimov is rumoured to have found a new partner as well. More to the story, Stolbova is now dating Nikolai Morozov who has split from his baby wife number three. Apparently, Morozov was also the one behind Loboda/Drozd split - Morozov wanted him to skate with his daughter, but Drozd is now skating with his own sister instead.

R381, Are you new here? Because there are absolutely things people can do, these threads have gotten grayed out at times because other people didn't want to keep seeing figure skating threads. Enough complaints, threads disappear.

However, more to the point, why are your panties in a twist because some of us asked the Hanyu-stans to create a separate thread? No, they don't *have* to, but for those of us who left middle school, it would be the easy courteous thing to do.

I don't mind discussing Hanyu--as a skater--and even some of the gossip about Orser is fine with me. It's the endlessness and triviality of the discussion that's worn me down. The thread gets mired in it--and, as I said before, there are other things going on in figure skating and this is a general figure skating thread.

Saw this tweet about the Chinese National Team for 2018-19. Where's Yu/Zhang?

And I agree w/R387. If anyone wants to read those tedious essays about Hanyu, or mope about what a victim he is (oh, please!) then they can easily go to Tumblr, his fan forum, GS, etc. I happen to like Hanyu's skating but the armchair psychoanalysis is ridiculous and way out of control.

TSL is suggesting Orser's side that put an end to the relationship, not the Chinese fed.

You would think Stolbova would be too old for Morozov. Is it too late for his last wife to get him jailed? And think of all of the young skaters we don't know about it...

Unbelievable that Morozov would split Loboda/Drozd. Loboda was a big meh though, but now Drozd is probably a lost cause skating with his sister. At this rate he'll be romancing Poje...

[quote] how fucking stupid are you? It's hard to decide which line of that post is more idiotic but I'll stick to the primary topic. They absolutely can hijack this thread. There is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it.

The fuck??? R381 are you aware where you're posting??? Dlers will absolutely call out little fucks like those Hanyu fans. They are not providing gossip or Skating talk. They are posting derange conspiracies about some ferret-face queen.

Now kindly step aside bitch!

I have seen Chinese fans suggest that it's Boyang Jin himself who didn't want to go abroad. Actually some of them were talking about it weeks ago already.

R391 Why do they think that and why would he change his mind?

So, from what I understand, the Han Chinese hate anything that would involve a loss of face. With the Beijing Winter Olympics coming up, the whole kerfuffle over Chinese judges when no one else got nicked had to have stung hard. I wonder if there's going to be a push to train everyone at home and become a bit more nationalistic and insular.

I feel for Sui/Han--they're going to be seen as the OGM favorites in China and she's already had serious injuries. The pressure on them is going to be insane.

Can our Chinese readers help out? According to poster at GS, the coaching roster was just released on Baidu and there are no foreign coaches listed. Yikes.

R386

bonne chance in getting his release

Hey... when did we drop the 2018 from the threads title? That's gonna be a pain in the assignment to search for later.

Also Esbrat/Novoselov were scheduled to skate at a skating school show in France the last week end of June, but they just didn't show up. Makes me wonder like r395 how easy his release is going to be.

Also, from the style of posting there are at most 4 posters who keep going on hanyu and co. At least one us japanese. Ça we agree to at least reduce the frequency of posting? It's not very interesting and it makes everyone run away. Also I'm surprised at how rude and anti-western the Japanese poster is.

Esbrat/Novoselov finished getting new choreo by Pechelat in mid June. If he has dumped her at short notice I can picture French Fed getting pissed

I just skip all messages with hanyus name, really saves you a headache. Anyway, any info on Boyang Jin?

Not a fan of TSL but their rumor matches with what others have been saying like Boyang wants to keep training in China, is really close with his current coaches and the Chinese fed might also not want for him to go abroad anymore. Anyway the earliest he could join now is by mid August after his training camp and ice show and that's awfully late, so most likely his transfer is either postponed or cancelled.

Was it posted already? Aliev got engaged.

R400 Is she 18 yet?

Aliev's post doesn't say anything about engagement. Just that they've been together 4 years and he's happy they have each other, etc.

I made another figure skating thread. We can talk figure skating and Yuzuru Hanyu. Apparently some are getting mad talking about a certain figure skater on a figure skating thread. Hope the link works.

It's ridiculous to be making a separate thread. He is a figure skater and should be discussed in this thread as anybody else. Now of course people shouldn't go overboard with the posts but I don't think creating a new thread is the solution. I know I will keep talking about him here like I do with other skaters.

r404 It's not ridiculous: I was annoyed myself by the silly posts that overwhelmed the rest but now I'll gladly read all the gossip and even the stupid analyses in the new thread, hell maybe I'll even participate in the idiocy. See ya there!

r396 I'm the one who shared the physical therapist and other news about Hanyu but I haven't written anti-western posts. As far as I can tell, only one other person here can read Japanese and they're not writing the diatribes and long essays You can tell who is writing what using the block function. I've got more Hanyu gossip but it's more about Kozuka and I don't know which thread it belongs in if it isn't just about Hanyu.

Can the Hanyu fraus please GTFO this GAY board?

R406 I haven't seen any anti-western sentiment other than the suggestion that maybe westerners should accept that other cultures don't not always share their perspective; hardly controversial. There are other interesting Japanese skaters besides Hanyu, and the women's field now is especially deep. I'm glad we have Japanese speakers here who can give us some gossip from time to time. And who cares if some people want to indulge in the Hanyu gossip? Some are excessive, some aren't. Skip, block or comment on something that interests you and see who else bites. On the other hand, it's the hysterical complaints about fraus and fangurls that are getting old now.

Hanyu likes to take BBC.

Update me with gossip from China

What is happening with Boyang?

I knew Zu was injured and Zhang skated with different girls in EXs. But being out of national team means that they don't except her to be back soon? Withdrawls from GP expected?

Sui is back on ice.

But I think only Peng/Jin went to Canada for choreos this month. I guess Sui/Han can keep one program from last season for GP if they are behind the schedule.

Wang/Liu in Team C? What does it mean? They have been sent to Gadbois. It seems they were investing a bit in them.

The 2 men who are in Team A with Boyang are the 2 sent to RA in California?

R409 I doubt he discriminates as long as the lad is strong enough to lift him and let's be real there is very little bbc in the figure skating world.

Is there ANY explanation why Stolbova and Klimov spli? Even rummors or supposition? Them starting anew with different partners is even more surprising than the Ilynkh/Katsalapov split. Tbh I'd wager S/K are gonna end up just like I/K.

The more I read, the more I think that the Chinese fed's anger about the judges are at the root of Boyang Jin's Toronto withdrawal. Apparently, it was the Fed, not Jin himself, that approached Orser. When the whole judging thing went down, China got pissed. Jin probably saw the handwriting on the wall (and may not have been that keen to uproot himself) and decided to stay home. At least for now.

It's a bitch for China since Jin has great potential, but really could use some of the Orser polish, but there's still time if things get smoothed out. I do think China's judges got singled out for something a ton of the judges are doing (Canada, Russia, U.S., France, Italy).

Genuinely confused by the hysterical bashing here regarding anyone who posts about Hanyu. Some of the posts go overboard into armchair psychoanalysis but you can just ignore it or tell them to cut it out. Incessantly screaming because it's about Hanyu and pairing that with your hate for women (??) makes no sense to me. Are men not allowed to have an interested in the guy? It's anti-western and rude now to say some of the western fans are delusional or read too much into things?

Anyway, now that the hysterical gatekeeping managed to drive off some of the posters, I hate the pearl-clutchers are ready to provide us with enough content to make up for lowered participation, aside from screaming about donuts.

I *hope the pearl-clutchers are ready to provide content. "Hate" was a Freudian slip.

Stolbova and Klimov notoriously don't get along that well. Nina Mozer, in oner of her bizarre interviews, said that had they not skated together, they would have not spoken to each other either

However, yes, it doesn't make much sense to start all over again with new partners at their age, especially if these rumoured partners are not that good.

Dear R414,

I am simply ENRAGED that you do not think the issue of bribing judges at local club competitions with food and donuts is reprehensible and repugnant and must be condemned by ALL Americans. I urge you to look at yourself in the mirror and join me in my fight against this most grave injustice.

In Solidarity, LA Donut Mom

R417 We support you in this battle. But we know ISU officials are so corruptible by coffee breaks. I can only imagine what a home made cake can raise in terms of PCS

I can also see Mama Zhou bringing cakes to ISU technical specialists to avoid his precious son being called 10 URs in 9 jumps

R418 Gift cards only. No cakes. --Shin

It was Anastasia Galustyan's father who got mad at Shin at Euros a couple of years ago. And he went to Russian press to complain saying "my daughter should be top 5! That Shin Amano was targetting her. And the assistent specialist has Armenian roots but he did do nothing, he was just sitting there letting Amano do that to my daughter"

Breaking news for the donuts skating mom. Hanyu has been spotted back at TCC. Probably has been there a few days already. But you have to be a kid for him to let you take pictures with him.

So, like Disney cosplay?

Yes like pooh bears

R387 You go ahead and do that. Send dozens of complaints to get a thread you want to post in closed. Then open a new thread where people are free to talk about Hanyu again then start the whole process again. In other words, you did absolutely nothing.

You give yourself way too much importance. I don’t actually give a shit about you guys. It started out as some obvious simple advice and now I’m just pointing you hypcritical idiots out.

R390 are YOU aware of where you’re posting? You act that fucking stupid for long enough and someone is going to call YOU out. You realize that constantly whining like a little bitch on some message board isn’t actually doing anything. Better a ferret face than a ferret brain.

R404 It’s so stupid. Now when someone has a question they either have to post it in 2 threads or have it half as likely to be answered and the conversations won’t be as in depth. All because a handful of entitled morons can’t get their collective ferret mind to process the simplest of concepts. In less than the time it takes to write one sentence they could have blocked all the Hanyu fanatics but instead they want to cry over and over about people discussing a figure skater on a figure skating thread.

Something tells me they're fragile little thirteen-year-olds who want to look tough to cover up the internalized homophobia....

The endless Hanyu drama is so boring and tedious, when I see his name, I just scroll the post down.

[quote]Anyway, let's talk about a Japanese that actually has a personality.

R380...I'm sick of all the Hanyu talk too, but you lose all credibility by pairing this statement with perhaps the dullest, blandest, devoid-of-all-personality person on the planet.

You could've chosen anyone else...and you went with an incest twin?

Although...the creepy, incestuous vibe of his videos with his sister do serve a certain element of intrigue...in a can't-look-away-from-a-car-wreck-sorta-way.

How will Machida cope with Takahashi's return? I thought he wrote a Shakespearean essay on Takahashi's retirement and followed him into retirement? Takahashi's trolling a lot of people right now with his return. Apparently Oda has quads now and Lambiel is better than ever... Maybe the senior skaters are seeing a sliver of a chance with somewhat-imminent retirement of the 2-time OGM?

r429 He quit even show skating and moved on to academics. I guess he'll be one of those for whom life will not revolve around skating, so it'll be easier for him to cope.

But Oda, yeah. Oda actually could make it and be competitive, so it'd be more exciting than Takahashi since I think the most exciting thing about Takahashi's return are the fanwars.

R424 has made her boundaries clear. It gives me that old MichFest frison.

R431: Man on the land!

Lambiel still has a 4T and he would easily still be the top skater in Switzerland if he had stuck around, but he seemed rather relieved when he was done competing. And of course, he's got a lot on his plate as a coach & with all the ice shows. Nobu ought to do it (although I guess he also keeps busy with his tv career).

" I thought he wrote a Shakespearean essay on Takahashi's retirement "

does the essay end with all of them dead?

But Lambiel hasn’t a 3A for ages, R433

may god, buddha, allah, jesus, the aliens, anyone prevent Oda from coming back. who cares if he can jump a 4T, his skating and programs were always dreadful and he is incapable of conveying any genuine emotion. He is better off crying over Hanyu on national TV while pretending to be straight.

R434 No it didn't but it was heavily rumored that Machida's self choreographed exhibition "Je te veux" was also dedicated to Takahashi after they helped each other through their disappointment in Sochi while rooming together.

I liked Oda's skating a lot more than Uno's. Yuck.

Watched machidas performances and I like his skating a lot. I never paid attention to him while he was competing, and now regret it

[quoote] Also Esbrat/Novoselov were scheduled to skate at a skating school show in France the last week end of June, but they just didn't show up.

Esbrat is currently at a summer camp in Switzerland. Novoselov is not in the group pic

I notice Bidar is there.

I am not sure if we should read something into how boys and girls are placed in the lines. Petranovic/Souza, Hase/Saagart and Kashitsyna/Magyar are one in front of the other (I don't know who is the 4th pair)....Bidar is right behind Esbrat...a try out maybe? or just the 2 leftovers?

R436 'Je te veux' means 'I want you' in French. I guess they 'helped' each other get over the disappointment in many ways. Machida could do better though.

Rumors say that Machida was rooming with Hanyu during Sochi and asked to be moved?

Machida and Hanyu are friends though, and pretty close I think.

I think it's Hanyu who moved to a hotel because he was sick/the rooms were triggering his asthma. R442 I wouldn't say friends but there was a level of respect and understanding between them. Hanyu admired Machida a lot and would replicate parts of his choreos very often and was really affected when he retired and they were a bit like a comical duo with one making dry jokes and the other reacting like the audience.

Did anyone see Zhou's tweet on Hiroshima's flooding? And then doubling down on wanting his discomfort at seeing suffering to end? Lol Vincent.

R444 I have a feeling those tweets are going to disappear soon. I'm going to quote them just in case.

[quote]Vincent Zhou: "Heard about the flooding in Hiroshima Prefecture. I'm praying for the safety of everyone and rescue of victims, and may the city be intact for NHK Trophy🙏"

"um vincent this is a lovely message and all but the last part really undercuts the whole statement"

Vincent: "It seems as if there is a misunderstanding. To clarify, I love Japan and hope Hiroshima Prefecture does not suffer any more losses. I hope to have the privilege of seeing an intact city in November, so that my discomfort at knowing people are suffering can meet closure. Thanks🙂"[/quote]

Oh my god, I'm cringing! Does he even know how to use Twitter? He writes his tweets like an ESL student writing a term paper. Keep digging that hole, kid.

Vinnie's ain't what you call socially adept, even for a figure skater. He makes Mirai Nagasu sound sophisticated.

Let's hope the rink is intact! I have been picked up for NHK

The kid needs a life outside of skating. He appears to be emotionally and socially stunted.

Is he...autistic?

Is Vincent a native English speaker? There's something odd about those tweets.

He was born in San José

R450 it's what pretentiousness looks like.

R449 Do we know Vincent has no life outside skating? I thought his Insta and Twitter indicate he does do other stuff. But c'mon, autistic? He's just full of himself.

Are we sure it's Vincent writing his tweets and not his mom.

Isn't Mom busy shouting at some coach?

Bringing donuts to judges, maybe.

Picture dedicated to the 'ferret-faced Hanyu' poster. Couldn't resist.

I wonder if the "Ferret Hanyu" poster is the same person as the "Gremlin/Troll Shoma" guy.

Stephen Gogolev will debut at JGP in Bratislava on August 22-25

How does Yuzuru look like a ferret? Seriously?

R460 The question should be how does anybody look like a ferret. I looked up "ferret face man" on Google images and every face looks different, there is no common denominator.

R460 and R461:

R462 And here I was thinking you'd link to something actually helpful, like "A Ferret Face And What It Means".

Love how it's okay to talk about Wakaba's thighs and not okay to talk about Hanyu's face here lol. Someone has a serious hate problem with Hanyu.

Ferrets are cute. Yuzu is cute. Maybe it's a compliment? Anyway, I thought it just meant Hanyu has a small face and short chin. Having a small face is basically a compliment in Japan, certainly for women, but I think for men as well. Japanese tend to have larger faces than western people - well, obviously not all of them, because there's Hanyu.

I like to fuss about Evgenia's toothpick thin legs but I know it's wrong. I need to go to confession I guess...

So in order to mention yuzuru we need to go to another thread? Is he not a figure skater? Or is he hated here and the name is banned? I'm confused.

[quote] How does Yuzuru look like a ferret? Seriously?

It's the weak ( recessed) chin.

Some Hanyu haters flipped out and screamed enough times every time people mentioned Hanyu that the adults packed up and left to another thread, it seems. Now the other thread is talking about all sorts of figure skating without the tantrums.

You can still talk about Hanyu here. I know I will keep bothering ferret faced poster with Hanyu content until he loosens up a bit.

R468: please, go be with the adults.

I was one of the posters that called Hanyu Ferret face. Whoever came up with that nickname is brilliant.

So what is our verdict on Vincent? I remember he was very queeny during his junior years. Can someone tell me why Jenny Kirk has som Home Ed channel? I thought she was studying to become a layer in California????

Hanyu discussion is fine here--just as long as it's not endless back and forths over the secret meanings of photographs and bracelets.

But, yes, Hanyu's got a ferret face, Evgenia has toothpick legs and Vincent Zhou is strange. I think it's mostly that he is bright, but also really isolated. No idea how to do normal. I'm sure there's a major ego as well. He makes me root for Nathan Chen. Nathan's not the most artistic of skaters, but he's pretty straightforward as a person--basic jock type.

How soon til the summer competitions in the U.S.?

The Hanyu hate here by some is ridiculous. Makes one wonder what he ever did to you to deserve this hate.

I feel like Maya is trying to out her brother...

Maia I mean

Why can't she let him sleep in the goddamned car? Tiger sister?

R468 so there is an adult thread and a thread to have tantrums?

What do we know about Alex? He once had a mythical girlfriend, who nobody appears to know.

Does he date in Europe?

R469 I don't see any ferret in that photo. He looks pretty cute.

Do either of the ShibSibs have significant others? Have they ever? Maia's bitchery is less held in check than it used to be--she's going to be the dance coach from hell one day.

[quote] How soon til the summer competitions in the U.S.?

Skate Detroit is next week.

First ISU recognized international competition is Lake Placid Ice Dance in 2 weeks. Philadelphia and the new Challanger Series event in Thailandia are in the first week of August

Uno, Oda and Kostner are the latest entries at Japan Open

So

Chen-Abbott-Tannell-Daleman

Fernandez-Vasiljevs-Zagitova-Kostner

Uno-Oda-Myahara-Sakamoto

I feel so lost between the excessive Hanyu hate here and the overprotective Hanyu fangurling over in the other thread...

LOL. Huang Feng passed the exam to be promoted as ISU Technical Controller last week at ISU seminar for new appointments and re-appointments of Technical Controllers and Technical Specialists!

ISU said that he isn't suspended as technical controller....but they won't appointed him for Words/Euros/4CC/GPs next season

R483, Hanyu's not hated here. It's the fangurling that is.

Japan Open--what a lousy draw for Tennell--Zags, two of the Japanese and Kostner. She'll need help to even get third.

[quote] [R483], Hanyu's not hated here. It's the fangurling that is.

[R483] If you'd bother to read posts that aren't about Hanyu you'd see there are equal opportunity haters here. Everyone is fair game. NotAFanboard

Weaver/Poje are getting choreos for new programs from Camerlengo/Shpilband

So, swapping places with Chock/Bates? W/P could use something a little livelier than some of the numbers they've had.

The people discussing hanyu were the only ones told to make a new thread. That kind of is saying we don't want Hanyu discussed here.

Oh for fuck's sake. Nobody cares if Hanyu is discussed here. But endless long posts full of wank about his poor fragile mental state and bracelets is not "discussion." It's fanfiction/fangurl crap like you would find on Tumblr. Ain't nobody got time for that!

Seriously, it's no big deal. The people on the Hanyu thread can talk about Hanyu and other skaters without being hissed at, and the people on this thread can talk about other things without feeling like the thread is being dominated by Hanyu talk. It's a perfectly reasonable detente and it's not difficult to keep track of both threads if that's what you want.

I think, given how long the Hanyu thread is, that having a separate Hanyu thread is perfectly legitimate. What was and is weird to me is how resentful the Hanyustans were about being asked to make their own thread, but that's the Internet for you.

So, any other American men who have a shot at the top three besides Chen, Zhou and Brown? I think the Ladies might be the more interesting competition this season--not because anyone will be that good, but because everyone has issues--Gracie has the most talent, but is now an official headcase. Bradie's yet to show much artistry (and those arms). Ashley, I assume, is unofficially retired, though I think she got money. Mirai has even less artistry than Bradie (who at least skates the choreography she's given). Karen Chen is a baby headcase. Mariah has delivered once.

Coming up, Amber Glenn is flakey in competition, but can skate. She seems to be skating like crazy this summer to improve her competitive mindset.

Then there's Alysa Liu gunning for the podium. I think the fed should be careful giving her too much too soon--she's got to get through puberty.

Wonder if Polina Edmunds will show up at Nationals or is unofficially retired because of the jumps.

Judging by her social media activities, Edmunds doesn't give the impression of someone who is training at all

Isn't Glenn another big headcase?

Polina almost never posts about training, even when she's training, but she's not on the lists for anything so far, so that's why I'm wondering if she's unofficially retired after her doing her short at Nationals for the hometown crowd. Even in her sorority-focused Instagram account, you figure there'd be something about getting new choreography if that were happening.

Glenn's a headcase, but one of the ways you deal with being a nervous competitor is to compete a lot and I guess she did a good performance at some real minor event (seriously, it was at a mall.) I've seen her skate and she was a stand-out among the lower-level competitors at Nationals. Blew her jumps, of course, but her actual skating looked like she was cutting through silk. Definite contrast to Starr Andrews, who's poised as hell, but doesn't skate on her edges. She really does need actual coaches instead of Hollywood cute guy coaches.

Well, Krasnozhon is turning senior & he wasn't a bad competitor at the junior level, but his skating is very rough around the edges, and I don't know if the coaching change will help or hinder him. I still wish someone would spill the tea on what happened with him & the Cains.

Is Ross officially done?

r466 You can talk all you want about Hanyu, bracelets, and his fragile mental state. Every board has self righteous twats who think everyone else should adjust to their preferences rather than using the options available to take care of the problem themselves. Datalounge is nice because you can actually call them out for being twats.

However, both threads have almost all the same topics but that one has more content on almost all of them so there's only a few reasons to participate here: 1. getting a more receptive audience if you hate Hanyu 2. trolling the Hanyu haters with Hanyu discussion 3.discussing/mocking the behaviors of other posters, which seems to be the main topic of this thread now

Although, this one does seem more interested in ice dance and skaters most people haven't heard of if that's your thing.

[quote] Although, this one does seem more interested in ice dance and skaters most people haven't heard of if that's your thing.

the peak would be ice dancers most have people haven't heard of??

Let's remember Datalounge Ice Dance Dream podium during Worlds

Gold: Zagorski/Guerreiro

Silver: Min/Gamelin (and that's because a DL poster was trying to hook up with him on grindr!)

Bronze: "the Lithuanian Reed sister" (but only because a Canada led ISU cospiracy would have prevented Agafonova/Ucar to rigthfully win)

Yeah it's hilarious the hissing about Hanyu's bracelets discussion by the same who want to talk about donuts bribing stories and literal who's no one but their parents has ever heard about.

Ignoring the person who should not be named since it has his own thread. Let's keep this thread Skating related.

So Skating Detroit is Next week. Pooja Kalyan is debuting as senior. I love her. She reminds me of a young Stellato. If only Amber Glenn wasn't such a headcase, she was beautiful last year, well when her ass was not down on the ice.

If Dolenski doesn't have a viable pair of quads, the USFSA will stick a fork on him.

R499 Dolenski needs to perform well this summer this summer if he wants the Skate America hot spot. But there is basically no-one in contention for that post unless they give a second spot to Alex Johnson

So bracelets bought by two figure skaters to harass another figure skater can't be discussed? But endless posts about judges can?

The judges posts are boring af to me as well as the obsessive fangurl posts. But people aren't posting about judges every single day, so they are easier to skip.

I am more interested in who will be the assistant technical specialist at Cup of Tyrol to call UR doubles to girls "no one but their parents have heard of" than in which bracelets two skaters bought.

But I don't mind if some people want to talk about bracelets. Even if said posts are numerous and long it is pretty easy to pass over them as the topic is usually pretty clear from the first words.

Speaking of Figure Skating, I'm intrigued as to why Krylova left for Russia. She could have move West and start her own skating academy after her divorce. Why did she divorce anyway? infidelity?

R504 Did they divorce?

He is going to Moscow this summer to do a camp with her new students according to Krylova

It was the rumor going around last year. I'm pretty sure it was Eurosports that said it on air in one of the GP competitions.

R506 Thanks

The news wouldn't shock me given the move to Moscow even if the relationship seem amicable enough to still collaborate

I can see why she chose Russia though. Russian ice dance is struggling compared to glorious old days. She can find a market there.

In US what is left in terms of traning opportunities at the moment? She knew Hawayek/Baker were moving away. Shibutanis are off temporaly or permanently. yes, you can try and snatch Parsons/Parsons or McManara/Carpenter from their base. Carreira/Ponomarenko won't leave Igor (actually, Ponomarenko won't leave Igor soon).

Montreal's bubble will bust at some point. Maybe not before the next Olympics though. It will be interesting who will be best positioned to capture back some momentum.

What is Zueva doing now?

Pogo got married today...how long were they engaged, 2 weeks? Smells like a shotgun wedding to me. She'll probably have a baby and be divorced next year like Mustafina.

R508 The Reeds (all of them) are the only Seniors left in Canton at the moment, I think. But doesn't she have the reputation on focusing only the top teams of her rink? So she probably couldn't remember who and why they are there.

R509 Did she splat while walking to the altar?

Doesn't Zueva have some Spanish team as well? It's kind of crazy she doesn't have more, it's not like all her teams have suddenly tanked. But I guess it's the siren call of Gadbois.

Are Weaver/Poje actually with Ivan?

Poor Pogosplat--she's what? 20? I know she's skating, but with the injuries and the way Russia churns out baby skaters, I think she's done. Too bad, she's one of the few Russians who skates large scale with big jumps. Just don't know why no one ever taught her how to fall without risking major injury. Medvedeva moving to Canada was a shrewd move, I think. Keeps her from being last year's news.

I'll be really curious to see if we see Olympic Zagitova or Worlds Zagitova.

R511 Re Spanish teams. Smart/Diaz are at Gadbois. Hurtado/Khaliavin are with Zulin. Robledo/Fenero were at Gabdois but they have retired at the end of the season. I don't think there is anybody else doing Ice Dance in Spain.

I am not sure about Weaver/Poje. From her wording, I thought it was just for choreography. She wrote: "It was an honour and pleasure to join forces with Pasquale (again!) and Igor to create our new programs for this season. Training the past two weeks in Michigan was pure joy! Thank you to our friends, old and new, for making our trip so wonderful. Can’t wait to get back to home base to continue the journey..."

Damn, Pogo looks gorgeous though. She should go into modelling or movies when she still has the looks.

Pieces of programs are starting to show up. Starr Andrews is skating to Summertime. She's filled out a little and her SS look a bit better. If the rest of her program looks good, she might keep climbing upward. She does have a knack for actually performing and more charisma than most of the other ladies.

R501 The problem is that's not a real thing that happened, it's fanfiction for people who don't understand the difference between fantasy and real life.

Reality: Hanyu is an hugely successful and popular (and super gay) top level professional athlete with no time for a personal life. His extraordinary career and unique talent and style are always worth discussing, and his off-ice PUBLIC PERSONA is also fun and interesting. He's worshiped as a minor god.

Fanfiction: Hanyu is a poor tortured soul under constant attack from anonymous internet commentors who don't love him enough for who he really is. He's been driven to the point of suicide by internet memes and inconsiderate selfies (not by the television cameras, huge crowds and literal panel of judges, that's not stressful). He spends all his time worrying if Russian teen girls really like him, if Misha is just using him, and whether he should "allow" Boyang Jin to train in Canada (despite the fact that his own career is winding down). He also sometimes ice skates, I guess?

The "reality" as you put it is boring as shit. I thought Datalounge was intended to be a "steaming pile of Gay celebrity gossip, politics and pointless bitchery."

Maybe you've lost your way? Try Planet Hanyu, Golden Skate, or FSU. It's basically all positive all day and full of "worship as a minor god" crap. And don't dare mention anything negative!!

I agree with R516. This is a place for gossip.

Depression is nothing to laugh at. I have read some say he wanted to take his life for what he read from antis and gossip magazines. Not from memes. I really hope he is ok and getting some help. Mental illness is absolutely nothing to fool around with.

Thank you R517. It's like going into a Johnny Depp thread and telling everyone they must only talk about the "reality" that Depp is a wealthy, good looking, extremely successful actor, and we mustn't talk about any possible issues like addiction, poor relationships, depression, money problems, etc. Only his wonderful acting role and what a swell guy he is.

BTW, in case R515 doesn't understand what "gossip" means and that this is a self-declared "gossip board":

Noun: Gossip is idle talk or rumor, especially about the personal or private affairs of others; the act is also known as dishing or tattling. A genre in contemporary media, usually focused on the personal affairs of celebrities.

Verb: To talk about someone else's private or personal business, especially in a manner that spreads the information. To talk idly; to chatter or prattle (especially concerning famous or important people)

Hochstein/Zhang wedding is only one month away...

Wow, the Hanyu fangurls here manage to be more annoying and obsessive than they are on any of the regular FS forums. Can't you pathetic stans hang out on Tumblr and Planet Hanyu? Or the other fucking thread that was set up just for your whiny BS? Gossip is NOT amateur psychoanalysis. Now, Grant and Caroline, that's better. Will he manage to consummate their marriage on their wedding night?

[quote] Now, Grant and Caroline, that's better. Will he manage to consummate their marriage on their wedding night?

Grant and Caroline have been co-habituating for a while. Guess Catholics aren't what they used to be. I can understand Grant and Danny hanging out, being the same age and both coming from a Catholic background. But isn't Jason quite a bit younger than these guys?

R518 apparently you can gossip about anyone except Hanyu here. The hate on this thread looks real for that kid.

R517 R518 R522 Is it really necessary to continue to complain about Hanyu on this thread? I'm speaking as someone who has migrated to the other thread because the conversation is more fun and the topics discussed are more interesting to me (many are not Hanyu related). I think most people, except for the extremely nasty ones, have said that it's fine to discuss Hanyu as a skater and indulge in some light gossip as we do with other skaters, but that the crazy psychoanalysis gets annoying. Don't they have a point? Now that the other thread has been created, why clog up this one with meta analysis about what can and can't be discussed? Can we please just move on?

Hochstein seems like a major, major closet case, but given that both he and Caroline Zhang are disappearing into the might-have-been woodwork, I wonder why he's bothering with the marriage. Religion, I guess. Or he really wants kids? I just don't get this stuff in this day and age. Or why skating is so conservative. You have this history of skaters from the liberal SF Bay Area, but even those skaters seem to veer towards Republican. Yamaguchi, Fleming, Edmonds, Zhou have all had conservative rumors around them. Debi Thomas ended up in a southern trailer park in MAGA land.

At this point, my hopes are resting on Alisa Liu's gay Asian skate dad. He can't be bringing up a Republican, can he?

[quote]I can understand Grant and Danny hanging out, being the same age and both coming from a Catholic background. But isn't Jason quite a bit younger than these guys?

And gayer?

Unlike Grant and Danny, Jason is in a glass closet. I seriously wonder how he navigates hanging out with two Fundie closet cases, when he's already inching his way out.

Do Grant and Danny pretend to talk about girls and bro shit, while Jason dances and does cartwheels?

Is Jason religious? Or from a religious background. Isn't he in the sort don't-ask, don't-tell closet? Doesn't have a beard or say things that would make it sound like he's straight. He just doesn't say, explicitly, that he's gay.

Or, rather, he let's his skates do the talking.

[quote]Is Jason religious? Or from a religious background. Isn't he in the sort don't-ask, don't-tell closet? Doesn't have a beard or say things that would make it sound like he's straight. He just doesn't say, explicitly, that he's gay.

Or, rather, he let's his skates do the talking.

[R526] Regarding Jason, I think that's it. I have no idea if he is particularly religious but I remember reading he went to Jewish summer camps. The way Jason is living his life seems to work for him. He's being himself with no apparent pretenses. I'm ok with the skating doing the talking.

Cizeron has choreographed the new FS for Ponsart.

Cizeron will choreograph for half of the French team at this rate

Do you think daniil gleikengauz gay? Someone saw him on tinder but I really don't know

Alysa Liu's dad is a Chinese immigration lawyer who's gay in the bay area. I think it's quite unlikely the family's breeding a bunch of right wingers!

I wish all the skating talk were in the same thread. Jason Brown needs to maintain his female fan base and looks to be reaching out to the Japanese market by learning Japanese (as is Sean "go fund me" Rabbitt). So it's understandable that he's not going to be posting photos like Rohene and publicly coming out.

More new programs announced

Sara Hurtado/Kirill Khaliavin

RD: Libertango

FD: Great Gig in the Sky; by Pink Floyd + Sign of the times; by Harry Styles

Viktoria Sinitsina/Nikita Katsalapov

FD: Air, Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major by Johann Sebastian Bach

Yu/Zhang have withdrawn from the GP series - her injury is probably still not healed. You can check it out on the isu website, their names are crossed out.

R352 So one spot up for grab at Skate America and French GP

I guess Ruest/Wolfe, Walsh & Michaud or Suzaki & Kihara for Skate America and Hase/Segeert or Barquero & Maestu for France if they follow the "cheap" route (USA inviting a team training in America and France a team training in Europe as organizers have to pay for travel expenses).

R530, Good point about Jason and his fan base. He also has a following of little old ladies--I met one of them at Nationals. He's got the whole nice, somewhat dorky boy thing going on. I suppose the glass closet kind of works for his image.

With Japan being so critical to the finances of a lot of skaters, I wonder if that will keep other skaters in the closet. Cizeron's another member of the glass closet brigade, though that seems to have more to do with being an ice dancer where the whole partner/chemistry thing is a big deal. With the sexy Hubbell/Donohue nipping at their heels, P/C won't be opening any glass doors soon.

well, I was wondering the same Re if Japanese fans being so important for the sport (they travel a lot, their skating shows are better and more attended, etc) is keeping some skaters in the closet because they see Japanese people are more conservative.

On Cizeron and ice dance perceptions. I get how it can make a difference in getting more fan support. But would it make a difference in competiton? Haven't all judges assumed he's gay too? If not gossiping during the coffee breaks, what else do they do at these ISU seminars?

And Cizeron is one of those guys that not even GoldenSkate fraus believe he's straight. And some of them are still thinking Takahashi is a ladies man.

After the fan brouhaha about V/M's "chemistry", I completely don't trust ice dancing judges on that score. Yes, I'm sure they all know Cizeron is gay, but it's good for the sport to not get in the way of fan fantasies about off-ice action. I'm sure there's a ton of pressure not to come out--even more than in pairs, which has a strong athletic element. Even in pairs, Duchamel/Radford's anti-chemistry was an issue.

Cizeron is in the glass closed? I thought he was completely openly gay, didn't he have photos with a boyfriend?

Duhamel/Radford don't really have chemistry though. Papadakiz/Cizeron have it more than almost all off ice couples in ice dance (Chock/Bates, Coomes/Buckland, Guignard/Fabbri, Lauriault/LeGac, Soucisse/Firus....Fournier/Sorensen are better in that department)

Johnny Weir is one of the most beloved skaters in Japan. Adam is well liked. Few believe Jason is straight. Japan is not keeping foreign skaters in the closet and their federation wasn't the one punishing skaters for not acting masculine enough, Canada.

[quote] Even in pairs, Duchamel/Radford's anti-chemistry was an issue.

I blame a lot of that on Meagan's size, actually their size discrepancy. They're an odd duo. How about Cain and DeLuc? They're a good match size-wise. Is his sexuality keeping them from having chemistry?

Le Duc on homophobia in US skating world and "manly" perception in Pair skating:

"I've had many challenges along the way but one that always stands out to me is the homophobia I've faced. Once during a pair try-out, I was speaking with the mother of the girl I was trying out with. She asked me if I had a girlfriend, to which I replied, "no, I'm gay." She said that it would make her and her daughter look really bad so I should keep it to myself, and that I'd made a really bad choice to be gay, and that I shouldn't tell anyone in her family that I was because they would try to perform an exorcism on me. Another girl I had a pair try-out with asked one of our mutual friends "What kind of gay is Timothy, is he just going to freak out and drop me, can he be strong in lifts?” Somehow, being gay meant that I wasn't "masculine" or "strong" to these girls. I wonder how things may have been different in my skating career if I hadn't faced these homophobic people, but I'm happy with where I've ended up."

"As a male pair skater, there is a certain mold you're expected to fill. To clarify, you have to be manly. I've been told since I was a child, that I'm not manly enough, that I like "girly" stuff, that I don't belong with the other boys. Once I started skating, the bullying only got worse. As my career progressed, I was turned down as a skating partner and other, more masculine, boys got the partners. It was really hard to think that no matter how hard I worked or how good my skating was, I wouldn't progress in the sport because of something out of my control. It was one of the reasons I retired for two years. I'm so happy to have found my current skating partner Ashley Cain because she understands who I am as a person and lets me be who I am. Now I hope to have the chance to be a beacon of hope for other, more effeminate young men who might be going through the same struggle I did. You don't have to be a masculine man to have merit in sports or life."

R541, ugh, that's awful. If I were a helicopter skate mom, I'd be perfectly happy for my daughter to have a gay partner because, you know, less likelihood of hanky-panky.

Meanwhile, Twitter gossip has it that Gracie Gold is doing triple-triples. Let the hype begin. The skating fed would be *thrilled* to have a Gold comeback since she fits the pretty-pretty princess/all-American white girl image. They're convinced that having that kind of star will save American skating.

I think the person posting on Twitter from her rink said she was attempting triple-triples. I'd be very surprised if she can actually do them in competition. She still looked out of shape earlier this year, so who knows how she got herself back in athletic form. I hope her eating disorder is under control. She certainly adds some more excitement to this upcoming fall season. Meanwhile Starr Andrews is looking more polished, but she still has that hunched, high shoulder look like Rika Hongo. I'm not sure if she can do anything about that.

Gracie ended before she even started. I really don’t think that the USA is going to have a strong women’s lineup for a while. Don’t count on any podium finishes at any international comps...

Uno FS is Moonlight Sonata

Min/Gamelin have split. She has decided to retire. He wanted to continue.

The Min/Gamelin split is not amicable at all. They both delayed two posts

She said he is lazy and hasn't worked well in the last two months. She told him to stop until he would be ready to work hard.

He replied saying she and her family are liars

There are also issues with the gofundme money they raised

What an exciting summer this has turned out to be for skating gossip. It helps to distract from the daily horror show going on in DC. Dear skaters, please keep oversharing on social media. Please!

I'm team Gamelin over trashy Korean girl from Torrence. You just know her family would be real fundies. PS I'm more excited for a Gold comeback than for the entire female Olympics team, and I'm speaking as an Ashley fan.

R543, I am not counting on Gracie managing anything. I'll be happy if pre-meltdown Gracie reappears, but that's a big ask. She has all the talent and none of the toughness. On the other hand, back when she could jump, she could really jump. And if Mirai Nagasu can get a triple axel at 26, who knows what can happen?

Starr looks better, but I'm still iffy about her--it's hard to overcome weak fundamentals.

I'm rooting for Bradie Tennell--mostly because her dominance last season upset the fandom so much. People think they like underdogs--until that underdog gets in the way of their preconceived notions. Too bad her GP draw make the GP final super unlikely.

Wonder how high the skating-while-Kostner PCS will be this season? And if a baby quadster will unthrone Zags and Med.

Why did Min split with Koleto and her past partners? Gamelin seemed so dedicated to becoming Korean for her and immersing himself in the language and culture that it's hard to believe he was as lazy as Min described.

because gurl is a cunt R551

Yeah, I don't really believe that any ice dancer is lazy--I mean, c'mon.

Breaking news, Denis Ten has been stabbed and is now on life support.

Holy shit. I was never a Ten fan, but nobody deserves that.

They're saying he died now. Damn.

Oh God.

He's dead.

"The tragic incident took place in the Kazakh capital, Almaty, at 3pm Almaty time, when the skater became involved in an argument with two unknown men who had attempted to steal mirrors from his car. The verbal row quickly escalated into a serious altercation in which the athlete received knife wounds. Passersby found the unconscious skater on the street and called an ambulance, which took Ten to hospital where he passed away after surgery."

jesus fucking christ

Awful. I like him a lot, he did so much for his country and had many talents.

here's his gold-winning performance at Worlds 2013, no matter how hard the Canadians were sucking Chan's dick

WTF?!?!?

Just woke up to this news. Beyond shocked. What the hell...

Is there anyone in Kazakhstan who can continue Denis and Friends? Elizabet must be devastated. What will happen to figure skating in their country without Denis.

That something so tragic had to happen over something so small (car mirrors!) is just devastating. It sounds like the plot of a Joyce Carol Oates short story.

Incredibly heartbreaking. He accomplished so much at a young age.

Phil Hershon Twitter Denis Ten should have been world champion in 2013 after his stunning performances to music from “The Artist.” Remarkably, he used it as a 2-part story in short and long programs. Home cooked judging in Canada gave the title to Patrick Chan.

Holy crap Phil, can't you let it go for 24 hrs and act like a caring human for once.!

I imagine this will be hard on Frank Carroll. He was already looking frail.

This is horrible. I use skating as my escape from real-world awfulness, but the real-world got in. Car mirrors--what a thing to be murdered for. It was remarkable to see someone from such a small federation break through.

It was weird to read the news of Denis Ten's murder then see his last Instagram video pop up at the top of my Instagram feed-- 18 hours earlier, he had put a video clip of him eating out with a guy, with close ups of the food. Man, what a tragedy. I didn't know Kazhakstan could be such a dangerous place. Was he viewed as rich and famous there, where his safety was at risk? No wonder Hanyu is hiding out in Toronto and TCC is so closed. This is a sad day.

Denis was not specifically targeted, it was a totally random robbery for stupid car mirrors. Does Hanyu even know how to drive? This has nothing to do with him.

Kazakhstan has a lower homicide rate than the U.S.--around that of Bolivia. So not that dangerous. I wonder if there was more to it than an argument over car mirror theft.

Seguin/Bilodeau have split.

So in the end only Marinaro/Moore-Towers remain...

R570 I agree this is not about Hanyu. However, I think (and R569 can correct me) something like this can happen to him. In fact to anyone. Have you read things from Hanyu's antis? Very creepy. They seem full of hatred for him.

Can fraus R569 & R573 just GTFO to the Hanyu thread? Not everything in the universe revolves around him.

Gracie Gold's now being coached by Vincent Restencourt?

I wish she'd go for the hot coaches who coached Cuntney Hicks. I'd love to see them in the K&C again.

His death is devastating. I don't think i can watch any competition now without remembering Denis.

[quote] Gracie Gold's now being coached by Vincent Restencourt?

Apparently. She's been at his rink in PA for about 4 months.

Misha Ge: "Had contact few officials, and trying to do few things for D10 memory. Not sure for now which of them can get approved, but trying. If some of them will be approved, might needed everyones little help."

Of course he wants to get credit for everything as usual. Were they "best friends" too? I don't remember Misha ever being invited to Denis's show.

He-Shib to She-shib

He already made statements on his regular IG and twitter. On Vincent Zhou's poetry account:

Off topic, and perhaps inappropriate given the circumstances, but oh lord! I did not realise purveyor of obnoxious self-serving teen wangst Vincent Zhou had a seperate poetry account!!! What joy!

Great finding!

Yes, I feel bad given the circumstances, but I involuntarily squealed with glee when I saw that. Now that we've seen the initial heartfelt messages, I wonder where the more attention whorey skaters will take us with their tour of public grief. Misha has made his move, Vincent has thrown down the gauntlet. Who next?

Vincent has a poetry account? Oh, the world is a better place . I am so going to enjoy this.

One of the posters to that thread is from Kazakhstan, says car mirror theft is a common problem. WHY? If's a bloody mirror. Can they not make mirrors or import them cheaply from China?

So who's Vincent Restencourt? Who else does he coach? Why him?

Vincent Restencourt was a French skater. He won a couple of Junior Worlds medals but he didn't leave much impact in Senior.

I can't recall any big names coached by him. He had one of the US girls who went to Junior Worlds last year IIRC

Hunh. Wonder why Gracie chose him. I mean, in some ways, she doesn't need technical coaching--she had great technique. With her it's all about the mental game. But does he have the skating world connections to make things easier for her? Maybe it doesn't matter . . .

[quote] Vincent Restencourt was a French skater. He won a couple of Junior Worlds medals but he didn't leave much impact in Senior. I can't recall any big names coached by him. He had one of the US girls who went to Junior Worlds last year IIRC

That girl was Ting Cui who is a major talent. They parted ways about 6 weeks ago for unknown reasons. Before that he spent some time at Tammy Gambill's rink in CA and was the jump coach at Monument when both Jason Brown and Jordan Moeller suffered their season-ending injuries. He left shortly after that.

All skaters need regular technical coaching. And in Gracie's case, I'm not totally convinced that it was just her nerves that were hurting her performances. It's possible she was also experiencing some subtle body changes--which we all experience to varying degrees as we age--that were affecting her jumps. That may be why she returned to her old coach in Chicago for help.

Vincent Restencourt certainly does move around a lot. Wonder why.

Ah, Ting Cui--yeah, she's got lovely, airy jumps.

R589, I think you mean weight gain. It's okay, you can say it. Weight gain screws up jumps. Clearly Frank Carroll wasn't the coach to get her through the big crash at Worlds.

When/why did Frank Carroll get so grouchy? Or has he always been like that?

R590 I was actually talking about the slight redistribution of weight throughout the body that gradually happens with women as they age into their twenties. Although it's not major, I would think even very slight changes could make rotating and landing those triples more difficult.

Gracie also piled on the pounds too and, yes, of course that was obviously a disaster for her jumps. I just wonder if she might have been experiencing some issues with them even before she started gaining weight and if that was making her performance anxiety worse. Everyone was always telling her "just rotate those jumps and you'll win"; perhaps doing that wasn't always as easy for her as she got older.

I just found out about Dennis Ten here. How horrible! And over some fucking car mirrors.

I saw him at the World Championships in LA in 2009. He was fabulous-he had everything a skater needed to be a huge success and the audience loved him. So terrible for his family.

r592, except that Gracie didn't have an issue with URs. She started falling and popping jumps. In 2016, she was skating beautifully when not hit with nerves--Her LP was perfect at nationals and her SP perfect at Worlds. Then 2017 hit and she failed to skate a single clean program.

R593, Yes, really and truly awful.

Learning more about Denis Ten makes me feel even worse, apparently he was planning on recording a music album, writing scripts for movies, photography,he just got a girlfriend and was probably thinking about retiring this season. Choreographed a program for Voronov, helped to coach two young Kazakh girls. Incredible young man with so many plans had to die so early, what a sad world

If I'm reading this correctly, he was stabbed around noon but didn't arrive at the hospital until 3:23pm. And that he was found by passersby? I wonder how long he lay bleeding without anyone trying to stop it?

Iron Klaus @Iron_Klaus Jul 19 Iron Klaus Retweeted Masaaki Sasaki

"According to the media in Kazakhstan, this is the area where #DenisTen was stabbed....They say this happened around noon. He arrived at the hospital at 15:23 in critical condition and was pronounced dead at 17:30. It might be because he could not move because of the injury."

He left his friends restaurant at 2 pm, was stabbed between 2 and 3 pm, the ambulance was called at 2:56, he was taken to er in 23 minutes. By the time the ambulance arrived 3 liters of blood were lost and he was in a coma. He died from multiple stab wounds in the right thigh and gluteal region, there were abrasions on his face, upper limbs and both knees. The suspects say they got scared and stabbed him in the leg so that they won't follow him. Doesn't sound like it judging from the wounds. They beat him a lot and they knew what they were doing. There were three witnesses - passerby woman, man in the car who called the ambulance and a person training on the sport ground just near the murder scene. The man in the car saw the fight, and saw one man falling and called the ambulance after that. The third witness is being searched by Denis' friends.

Thanks R597. It's still atrocious but not as eerie and outrageously-slow response-wise as the tweet made me think (R596).

Not sure what happened exactly - but don't ever start something with a criminal in action. The leader of the Kinks, Ray Davies, chased a man in New Orleans who grabbed his girlfriend's purse, and the thief turned and shot Davies, who ended up in the hospital for days. It's never worth it, unless they kidnap a child or something like that.

[quote] When/why did Frank Carroll get so grouchy? Or has he always been like that?

Frank obviously had no idea how to handle Gracie at that point. It's possible no coach could have. She was losing it and was unpredictable. It's possible he didn't understand mental illness and thought she was just acting childish. Her family should have stepped in and removed her from the competitive environment before things got as bad as they did.