Pose - New Ryan Murphy show on FX

I was in New York in the 1980's and I had no interest in the scene then, and I have even less interest now. I know Ryan Murphy is behind it, but it seems like a show for more of an African-American gay community, specifically inner-city types.

I love black men, but this show seems very NMCD.

A tranny show? meh

Thanks, OP, I'll be using your nice thread because the older ones are mostly just people whining about you know whaT.

I'll go in with an open mind even though the reviews I've read point to a B quality.

Murphy's the worse thing that ever happened to television. No thanks.

Yes, all those older actresses should have stayed unemployed, like God intended! And who cares about the gay sensibility either, amirite?

It looks interesting, but also seems extremely niche. I read Emily Nussbaum's profile of Murphy last month, and he admitted that he liked for his shows to have big ratings and mainstream appeal. So, he might be in meltdown mode when the ratings are released tomorrow.

It does have Chris Meloni, so there is that.

Looking forward to it. Murphy must have been a bit worried about backlash because a month ago he announced that all the proceeds (?) or profits (?) from the show would go to related charities -- can't recall the exact wording. Sounds like he might have suspected he'd be taken to task for being a white, cis man telling a mostly POC & trans story. Advance reviews have been good.

No one seems to have asked him how these profits or proceeds would be determined. Will it be when the studio says the show is in the black? Does he mean that he's donated his own salary? It could mean anything or nothing.

It’s awesome that a superstar TV producer, Ryan M, is making TV about and for folks that have long been ignored by pop culture.

R9, trans people will still be pissed at him, he's a cis gay man after all! That's the worst thing you can be to them.

I'm liking it so far. Gay in the late 80's wasn't easy, that's for sure

Turned it off after a half hour. Best part was hearing Mary Jane Girls' In My House.

Wasn't able to watch tonight but I'll check it out tomorrow.

Bump for the people who should stop creating new threads when there are already plenty of threads about this show

God it’s slow - just like all of these series. Interesting 80s AIDS=death backdrop. Fabulous Billy Porter. But dragging a little already.

It mostly just made me miss Leroy from Fame. Fun soundtrack though.

People always ask me...”hey, did you ever go to the balls back in the day...they seemed like so much fun!!”

Me: “No, I was too busy having a career”

R14 I searched as I assumed there would be an official thread--this was all that came up.

I liked it, and completely agree about Leroy, as Damon so reminded me of him.

Music for us of that era--fabulous!

Shocked to hear Kate Bush (of all people) “Running Up That Hill” used

The soundtrack alone must have cost FX millions... Whitney, Chaka, Donna, Kate Bush, etc.

Obviously a farewell FU to FX, can't imagine anything more outre and edgy than this. And an 80+ episode to boot.

Good on Ryan Murphy.

Whatever you want to say, he reinvented what TV can be. Hate if you want.

Angel is a star! I want more Bush too (:

[quote] I want more Bush too (:

Don't we all ?

What does R20 mean by saying 80+ episodes?

(...because this show did not even get 80+ posts on a gay board on Premiere night!!!)

[quote]What does [R20] mean by saying 80+ episodes?

The episode was over 80 minutes long.

I expect it felt longer to its viewers.

It was boring.

R21 Angel is pretty but it was Blanca that carried the pilot but their acting is not great.

I'm not sure what's sadder; r17's remark or the fact that r17 thinks it says something good about him.

Chris Meloni makes my heart sparkle

The show's dialogue seems to be full of anachronisms, at least many of the sayings and phrases seem 21st century instead of late 20th century.

[R30]

R30 is right. "The shade of it all"? That wasn't said back then!

A ryan Murphy show not being accurate? That doesn't sound like him.

I also ended up laughing through most of Damon's dancing audition for the dean.

That didn't even look up to the level of So You Think You Can Dance or even Dancing with the Stars, that was some lip-syncing for your life moves; Facts is facts.

I looked up the cast list on IMDB and was not surprised to find that many of them have few, if any, other acting credits.

So? Everyone has to start somewhere and it's not like there are showrunners out there, hiring trans and gay actors left and right.

r32, "shade" is a big word in "Paris is Burning" (1990).

The music and costumes were great, but the acting, for the most part, was awful.

R34 at first I was expecting a flashdance momennt but instead it was laughably terrible and he made it in? How?

The vast majority of masculine gay and bi men will not watch this, nor will probably ANY lesbians. That leaves a pretty niche audience. I'm surprised both Murphy and CD did not realize this.

r40 Who is CD?

Sorry, R41...FX

It was surprisingly risque and auteur-ish - and, admittedly, a little amateurish in the acting department. It seems Murphy had total carte blanche and ran with it.

I truly cannot believe FX greenlit it and also agreed to the 80+ minute episodes, but I guess they're going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel now that Murphy is at Netflix. I get the feeling this was a "gimme" because he is still so butthurt about them passing on PRETTY/HANDSOME, which (based on the pilot) was ten times more dramatically involving and interesting. A shame they didn't have the balls to air that when he wrote it. It was way ahead of its time.

Ironically, the ending to PRETTY/HANDSOME was all set to "Bohemian Rhapsody" and that was the first commercial shown after the 25-minute opening to POSE.

Jason A Rodriguez is a cutie. Couldn't keep my eyes off him in every scene he was in. He was throwing so much attitude with his face during the dance-off, all the while dancing his ass off. Looked so effortless, like he could do it in his sleep.

That people think shade was invented in the 21st century is why this show needs to exist.

To all of the posters scoffing at it, that dance audition was supposed to look passionate but amateurish. Full of rawness, with little refinement. After all, he was applying to enroll in that dance school, not to become its dean.

This was like an Ikea version of the Balls. I have watched Paris is Burning dozens of times and there is none of the grit, desperation or authenticity that flowed from that masterpiece. I was thinking of how HBO depicted NY and Times Square in particular in Deuce and how real that seemed to me in look and attitude. This has potential but I don't think it's possible for Murphy who tends to put a gloss on things or the young kids who are playing the parts and are too young to understand the scene to ever make it seem real.

Agree Jason Rodriguez stole the screen whenever he was in a shot - with pose and attitude alone. 2 snaps.

I walked away from it to get the mail and forgot that it was even on. The acting is so piss poor-Blanca sounds like she is about to cry in every scene. Whoever played "Mother" in the opening scene was just wretched. I also wondered if I was supposed to root for them when they were stealing from the museum.

You’ve watched the movie Paris Is Burning dozens of times?

Is that 24 viewings? 36? More? Were these viewings one after the other or did you take breaks between showings? Did you watch the movie so many times to win a contest? Is watching this movie dozens of times your job?

Do you have the credits memorized? Do you dream about scenes from the movie?

You bitches are BITTER. The show is worth watching for the art direction alone. Are you NOT of a certain age and do you NOT remember how fab dumpster treasures could be?

I wonder what's wrong with r50 - in the head, I mean - that he can't comprehend someone watching a favorite movie many times.

Go Ryan. Always interesting.

Yeah-except it wasn't interesting.

Dafuk, R50?

I've seen "Grease" at least 40 times, R50-are there any questions you'd like answered?

Same.

To go off another thread, I've seen SUSPIRIA at least 25-30 times. Probably more.

And I've seen MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS at least 20 times, too.

I will keep watching but agree that the dance audition scene should've been a bit better if he was actually going to get in after all that drama and missing the deadline. The soundtrack is the best thing about it. Murphy is great at that, just like he was with Versace. I would like a playlist of these tunes.

Is Angle a trans actor? Evans Peters looks healthy again and has a great body.

OK, I've watched Paris is Burning and of course, Pose is a complete rip-off. Can someone who was there tell me if Rupaul was a part of this scene or did he just rip it off too?

Vogue.

RuPaul was more part of the Club Kid scene than the ball scene r60. Him and Lady Bunny were doing their own thing and not part of those drag houses. Michelle Visage was actually more intertwined with the ballroom scene, she was part of the House of Magnifiques

well its 90 minutes and held my attention. I thought there were very touching moments in it.

Thank you so much, R62, I had no idea and have so much more respect for her now.

What I can't figure out is where the hell they get the money for all of those fabulous outfits. I mean, none of them seems to have a well-paying job (save Evan Peters), or a sugar daddy.

Good lord. They steal them.

I love this show! For all the Miserable-Mary's, fuck off. It's fun and touching. And no one else is bringing anything like this to TV. Love You, Ryan Murphy.

I grinned from the beginning to the end. As a black gay man I loved seeing a reflection of me on tv and not as a plot driven device or the butt of a joke. And for the people shitting on this show, just remember that this is the only gay series on a tv that has any sort of backing and its quite good. If you dont like go watch your old Queer As Folk dvds.

[quote] And no one else is bringing anything like this to TV

There may be a reason for that.

You could definitely feel the episode's length, and yes you can tell a lot of these people are new to acting...but I still enjoyed it. And I can't overlook that this show even exists and is shining a light on this culture and these stories is a positive thing.

I thought that Dawson's Creek guy was amazing. He did so much with his short little scene and embodied the character completely. I had no idea he could actually act.

The actor who plays Lil' Papi (Angel Bismark Curiel) looks nothing like the photo on his IMDb profile. But in a good way; he's a delicious grown man now. I could just lick every square inch of his adorable face. Can't wait to see more of him.

[quote]I grinned from the beginning to the end. As a black gay man I loved seeing a reflection of me on tv and not as a plot driven device or the butt of a joke.

r68 I feel such glee whenever people say something like that. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I found the presence of all those black and Latino actors very refreshing but can see how that - coupled with trans actors - would be triggering to a lot of gay men who loved the lily-white QAF.

[quote]Fabulous Billy Porter

Yeah, you can tell he is the veteran actor in the cast.

I did think Indya Moore's Angel really had a lot of draw on screen.

The weakest links were the Blanca's old house mother and dancer Damon.

Indya Moore is from the Bronx but does anyone know what her ethnic background is? Her face is just so stunning I didn't even care about her acting chops. She looks like a Sumerian goddess.

Indya is Dominican.

[quote]One of the things I experience as an Afro-Latino is that once men find out that I’m Dominican they overstep their boundaries with their comments about Black people.

r74 Thanks! And what an incredible quote; I had no idea people behaved like that.

Ryan Murphy keeps making new projects but doesn't follow through with the told ones. I don't think the second season of "Feud" has been cast, much less shot, and the first one aired more than a year ago.

[quote]Yeah, you can tell he is the veteran actor in the cast.

Excuse me?

688,000 18-49 viewers.

Is that decent for cable?

.2 in the demo is not good at all.

The premiere of Feud was a .5 in the demo and Versace was a .7, to compare it to other Murphy FX shows.

Is it over the top and fantasy like on purpose? Like, who’s paying for the dance school? Did young yuppies dance to 40’s big band music in the 80’s? I loves it but it did seem full of the movie cliches you see on DL threads.

This show is already better than ACS Versace. I'm obsessed.

The amateur acting was off-putting at first, but then the realness of it takes over and you become immersed in their world.

A lot of Murphy shows are feasts for the eyes. Pose seems to be no exception.

The armature acting adds to the fun. I love it. I'm hooked.

Yeah a lot of people just know Michelle as "that judge who is Ru's friend" without knowing her long history with the drag scene and the queer community r64.

I often disagree with her, but I can't deny she has a right to be there.

Someone posted this on previously.tv and I thought it was spot-on (and funny):

Alright everyone, its time to play another round of Ryan! Murphy! Bingo!

Get your bingo squares ready, and see what we can find this week!

Eclectic and yet classic soundtrack?

Daddy Issues?

Overbearing mother figure?

Sassy gay men?

Someone wanting to live their dream of succeeding in show biz?

CAMP in the highest degree?

Non conventional family?

Snotty rich white assholes?

Evan Peters?

Judgmental intolerant Christians?

The audience thinking "wow, Ryan Murphy is really working some stuff out still"?

Thats what I've got for now! Clean your cards, and get ready to play again next week!

I liked it up until that Flashdance inspired audition scene which was awful. That kid never would have been accepted into a dance program based on that audition. And where is he going to get the tuition money?

R86 he’s black and poor so full time scholarship.

In reality a combination of financial aid and loans. I love people are like "where would he get the money", where does anybody whose parents can't pay for school get the money for it. They go into debt.

I think R86 totally missed the point of that scene.

[quote]And where is he going to get the tuition money?

How does Blanca and Elektra afford where they stay? We're just supposed to accept it like we had to except why the fat guy from LOST never lost weight while stuck on a deserted island.

It is a rundown apartment in the Bronx in 80s NY, we know Blanca has a job but I forget what.

Billy Porter's character is a spritz girl (even lower than a salesbottom) at Macy's; that sounds like a job we'd joke about on DL (and that they DID joke about on "Will and Grace"), but he appears he's doing quite well.

r85 Shouldn't we, as gay men, be grateful that we can play that bingo? Who else is bothering with depicting gay culture on somewhat mainstream TV right now?

[quote]Judgmental intolerant Christians? The audience thinking "wow, Ryan Murphy is really working some stuff out still"?

As can be observed from the Supreme Court decision this week, he's working through national, not personal stuff. And yes, the majority of those who kicked their gay kids on the street then and now were and are religious people. Don't @ me.

R89 Can you explain the point of the scene because I think I missed it, too. And I'm not being snarky, I really didn't get it.

Thank god for r90. If you lived in my city we'd have a standing watch date each Sunday at 9pm. Sharp!

R20 Reinvented TV??? LOL! You mean, he took it into the toilet. Rehashing ideas better done by others, and turning everything fun or interesting into lowest common denominator kitsch.

R93 Depicting gay men?? You mean spewing stereotypes right and left.

R89 here. The point of the scene was the range of emotions he went through trying to impress a jury of judges. Set against Whitney's "I want to Dance With Somebody" he was expressing his truth as a gay black man. He goes from aggressive "masculine" moves until he finally becomes free and dances what comes naturally to him. His cry at the end got to me. He was accepted by a woman who looked like his mom who embraced him and where his queerness was a deterent. That was my favorite scene and it really resonated with me.

If you like the show better enjoy the eps you will get, with those ratings I can't see FX renewing this.

So are the show's fans known as "poseurs?"

New series “Pose” on FX and “Succession” on HBO started fairly quietly, each finishing out of the top 25. Both had 0.2 ratings in adults 18-49; “Pose” had 688,000 viewers and “Succession” 582,000.

MEXICO LIFE on HGTV did better.

I wanted to post the preview for the second episode but it's so long that it gives much of the plot away. Lil' Papi in his shorts over sweatpants trying to learn how to dance alone makes me pumped for next week.

Can't remember the last time I was so invested in a Ryan Murphy show. Power of representation, y'all.

So how long is the run? It will begin sucking at the halfway point like every damn Ryan Murphy production. He will get bored and move on, and his show will suffer.

Too many anachronisms for those of us conscious at the time., and Murphy is my senior.

Eight episodes. I do hope he feels more responsibility for this one so it doesn't end up sucking halfway through.

I think Murphy has handed over the day to day duties to Goop's fiance Brad Falchuck and another EP as he has his Netflix projects he has to get to. He has said he doesn't know what will happen to American Crime story so I take that to mean he has transitioned out of the F/X projects.

So the straight guy is running the show now? Great. Hopefully, the third - and very gay - showrunner will exert enough influence over Goop going forward.

How fabulous is this EW cover?

Murphy has also said he fully intends to have full control of AHS as its his personal favorite of his projects, so I am hopeful he will get a killer final season or two out of it (what? there are 3 more to go I believe). I'm sure Lange won't do it if he's not on set every day with her, so it's theirs to lose. If she drops out of doing next year's COVEN 2 season at the Murder House it will be a sign he has let go of it, but I am cautiously optimistic he will see it through to the end.

I have no faith that FEUD or AMERICAN CRIME STORY will have major involvement from Murphy beyond overall concepts and maybe pilots going forward. The Katrina ACS sounds like a downer and the Diana/Charles FEUD seems like it will be a CROWN/BBC rip-off so best to let those two languish. I would love to see the Monica Lewinsky/Clinton ACS but again I think Murphy is moving on (as he should; biggest contract in TV history).

I kinda can't wait to see what he's going to cook up for Netflix. I wonder if they'll reign him in or leave him to be freer than ever (to fuck up the second half of any given project). I just want to see some indication that he's aware of the slump that tends to happen in his shows, and - more importantly - that he's willing to do something about that going forward.

[quote]I just want to see some indication that he's aware of the slump that tends to happen in his shows, and - more importantly -

Of course he is aware of this, he has talked about it several times.

Look at every show he has launched post-Glee. American Horror Story, American Crime Story, Feud. They are all anthology shows where you only maintain the same plotline for one season and then you start over.

But the slump has happened in almost every AHS season now so how is that an excuse?

[quote] I wonder if they'll reign him in

Oh, dear.

Evan Peters is transgendered? Who knew?

Y'all old queens probably fell asleep.

The pilot was strong AF. Fantastic soundtrack and I don't see the so-called "atrocious" bad acting, tons of network and cable shows have showcased far worse.

It's just pure camp glossy galore. Ryan finally delivered.

R114 It is fake stupid shit

[quote] Ryan finally delivered.

from the ratings noted above, nobody was there to accept the delivery.

R114 lol must be one of those tired queens that think every drag race season is the best ever!

[quote]Y'all old queens probably fell asleep.

Seems weird to insult the audience that would actually know something about the time period portrayed. I'm not even in that age group, but tiresome way to start your post if you want to be taken seriously.

The dialogue and setting is waaaay too modern. That pier did not look like that. The dance school too. Billy Porter is the best one but i didn't think the acting was all that bad from the rest of the cast. There were some good moments. Soundtrack was killer. Some of it is just a blatant ripoff of paris is burning.

The school audition was absolutely TERRIBLE. the actor is really bad. He's the worst one. Just awful.

Oh and of course they had him working for Trump. Ugh. I'm so over it. Must every show mention him?! He cannot win another term because i can't deal with the obsession over him.

Originally Donald Trump was to be a character on the show, be thankful they changed it to just Trump employees.

[quote]In one of the original scripts for Pose, Trump was an actual character. “Van Der Beek’s part in the first draft was written to be a young Trump, and Evan was going to be the speechwriter,” says co-creator Ryan Murphy. Adds co-creator Brad Falchuk, “I wrote a lot of Trump dialogue which was a lot of fun to write. I think I had him down.” But eventually, the creative team felt that having him in there was too distracting. Explains Murphy, “The election happened, and we’re like, ‘Nobody wants to see him.’ And then it was going to be an actor impersonating somebody who’s already a caricature, and I thought, ‘Well, that’s just going to take you right out of the show.'”

[quote]The Pose team still felt like his specter provided an important element to the series about being your true self, so he’s name-checked still. “He’s the biggest fraud of all time,” says Falchuk. “If the show is called Pose, he poses as someone who is much richer than he is, much smarter than he is, much more educated than he is. He is the representation in terms of all that is wrong in terms of inauthenticity. But the contrast between someone like Blanca (Mj Rodriguez) and someone like him could not be greater. I think it was important we felt that contrast.”

r123 I'm glad they changed it to the way it is now. No Trumpster on my gay-ass show, thanks.

The “actress” who plays the evil house mother is easily the worst performer of the bunch. They need to have her sit silently and glower rather than give her pages of dialogue. Is English her first language?

I’m as gay as a picnic basket and rah-rah for my fellow gays but even I find “competitive vogueing” completely silly. Hopefully we won’t get too many more cringeworthy scenes like that one.

r125 She may not be much of an actress, but she does "fierce" quite well. (Without talking.)

Yea that "actress" is at the bottom with the dance school boy. Terrible. "Her" facial expressions are good though. "She" was a drag queen at the club's in nyc for years and years just like laverne cox.

I thought the OTT dance audition scene was consistent with the campiness of the rest of the show. I’m surprised that Murphy didn’t have the actor literally fly around the room, powered only by his fabulosity.

If this show gets any campier, it’s going to burst into flames.

I just saw that the second episode airs tonight. Oh, it feels like I've been waiting for ages since the season opener. I'm so excited!

Trying to find gifs of Jason A Rodriguez's incredible vogueing and failing miserably. He's so dreamy.

r125 Dance-offs of any kind cringe me out normally, but I didn't mind this one that much for some reason. Maybe because I felt like I was a part of that community that was observing the dance-off, for once.

"The armature acting adds to the fun." - R83

Oh, yes! I love all those rotating coils!

ar·ma·ture ˈärməˌCHər,ˈärməˌCHo͝or/ noun noun: armature; plural noun: armatures

1. the rotating coil or coils of a dynamo or electric motor. any moving part of an electrical machine in which a voltage is induced by a magnetic field. a piece of iron or other object acting as a keeper for a magnet. 2. a metal framework on which a sculpture is molded with clay or similar material.

I'm sorry but that Flashdance'ish 'dance' audition was horrid. You can read whatever you want into it but there's no way that kid would have been accepted based on that audition especially if the classes were already booked. And, I'm sorry, he was auditioning for a Fall semester but based on the coats and scarves the actors are wearing it's clearly winter. BUT, there's much to like about the show. Billy Porter. The actress playing Blanca is wonderful. And I'm glad they're taking the opportunity to remind everyone about AIDS. You remember AIDS, don't you?

The dean hugged him at the end. Whatever talent he displayed during his audition, I'm sure compassion or even pity played a big part in him finally getting in. Besides, it's just a narrative device so don't give it too much thought.

However, if I don't see Lil' Papi overtake Jason A. Rodriguez in the dancing department by the end of the season, I'm definitely rioting.

Do you think the ratings will be extra shit tonight because of the Tonys?

R134 No, the ratings will be extra shit tonight because people saw the pilot

r135 You're just the worst, aren't you?

R136 No, that would be 'Pose'

Tonight's episode is even longer than the premiere! More than 90 minutes according to my DVR. FX is really sucking Murphy's dick with this series.

This Nordstrom style stuff is so stupid

r138 Yay, can't wait!

[quote]The dean hugged him at the end.

She just wanted to cop a feel.

R134 how high do the ratings really need to be? It's a show about a niche topic. They probably just want whatever audience they get to be on the young side.

[quote]They probably just want whatever audience they get to be on the young side.

The premiere had a .2 in the 18-49 demo. That is horrible.

The show is too expensive to stay afloat with a .2 (and likely lower) rating. They have to hope for a huge number in delayed viewing.

R143 Crappy reality shows with 1/20th the budget of this shit get better ratings than that!

The first episode was impressive. the second one makes me think it's already running out of gas.

It won't be that easy for them to cancel it. It got so much promotion and was being heralded as a social breakthrough. It's kind of a vanity project for them. Easier to just take a loss on it.

R145 The first episode was dull and bad though.

There's a name for you ladies, but it isn't used in polite society outside of kennels.

PrestonMitchum‏@PrestonMitchum

Gay and straight white men are being shown for exactly who they are: the same person. #PoseFX

[quote]R134] how high do the ratings really need to be?

High enough for advertisers to want to buy airtime for their commercials. With ratings like those, you might as well run ads on public access.

How could anyone reasonably have expected a show about trannys would earn a viable audience. FX is just fishing for "woke" points and awards during the low audience summer. Maybe they'll start showing two consecutively to burn them off more quickly.

The dialogue is too preachy and tries to explain too much. Less is more.

I really like this show, and I hope it grows an audience, if indeed the ratings are not where it needs to be.

[quote]I also ended up laughing through most of Damon's dancing audition for the dean. That didn't even look up to the level of So You Think You Can Dance or even Dancing with the Stars, that was some lip-syncing for your life moves; Facts is facts.

So true!

I was scratching my head, because I was expecting something great not a WTF moment.

Still, I like this show, and I'm not watching for the dancing.

You bitches would be stumped by interpretative dance if you thought Damon's audition was WTF. It was perfectly fine.

I want Lil' Papi inside me, deeply. Shoulder-deep, to be exact. He's the MVP of the show for me but he really needs to stop dealing drugs.

I'm always annoyed by prescient dialogue in period pieces so all those woke lines didn't really work for me. I thought the diner scene was perfection from the first second to the last and I couldn't believe it took place in a Murphy show. Peters and Indya blew it out of the park there.

Was screaming at the screen when the two guys went to the storage facility to have sex. That guy was such a playa, saying all the right things to score that hole. And give sweet Damon the death sentence while he's at it.

How did it do in the ratings last night? Haven't been able to find any posted.

[quote]I have no faith that FEUD or AMERICAN CRIME STORY will have major involvement from Murphy overall concepts and maybe pilots

Hasn't ACS always been like that though? He doesn't write it.

[quote]The dialogue is too preachy and tries to explain too much. Less is more.

Welcome to your first Ryan Murphy production! This is not a concept he believes in.

I'm through most of the second episode now, and the actress who plays Elektra is distractingly bad. Those community theater line readings are hurting my soul.

[quote] I thought the diner scene was perfection from the first second to the last and I couldn't believe it took place in a Murphy show. Peters and Indya blew it out of the park there.

Agree. Evan Peters and Indya have been magic together in the first two episodes. Their scenes always pop.

The scenes between Evan an Indya are the most authentic. Not forced dialogue and woke lines, just two people connecting.

[quote]Evan Peters and Indya have been magic together in the first two episodes. Their scenes always pop.

I live for their scenes.

Damon and Elektra are the worst. Just awful awful actors. I also liked the diner scene. The modern setting really bothers me. I was just in that porn shop last week. Why aren't they at Sally's hideaway and places like that? The soundtrack makes it better than it is.

Only on DL will someone argue about the period accuracy of Times Square porn shops on a gay ass TV show.

LOL!

[quote]Damon and Elektra are the worst. Just awful awful actors.

I agree. At least, Elektra brings camp, but Damon. . .

I think he's too aware of the camera, and he has too many big chompers to keep his mouth closed.

Damon is as a bad an actor as he is a dancer , jesus was one of the so you think you can dance gays not available?

R166 Robert FTW

Speaking of SYTYCD, they could have used Danny Tidwell. He is tall and a powerful dancer.

R168 Ahhhh adored Danny

Here's Danny in all of his glory.

R170 Still pissed that Sabra won that season, Gods, Neil and danny were a million times better. Lacey was better than her. And where the fuck is Sabra now?

Oh, I'm glad people have love for Danny. In fact, Danny's true life story kind of matches Damon minus the being kicked out for being gay story. At the age of 8, Dany was neglected and had to walk ten miles to get back home from dance practice. Eventually, his dance teacher adopted him at the age of 12.

Danny would have rocked I Wanna Dance with Somebody and earned that hug.

R172 Adopted by Travis Walls' Mum

Who is the guy with progeria that R130 and R44 are blathering about?

R172) Yes.

[quote]and where the fuck is Sabra now?

Since her win, Sabra has been dancing all over the world. She spent a year with Cedar Lake Contemporary Ballet in NYC, danced in Mexico City and Germany and is now a member of dance theater company Staatstheater Darmstadt in Austria.

R177 I shouldn't be so down on her BUT just so adored Neil and Danny, here I am, 13 years later still not fucking over it BWHAAHAH Thanks for the info, she was stunning, just not my Danny or Neil. Gods, or Lacey, she was also great

No, she was better than Lacey for sure. I remember Lacey had a tough road once she got on DWTS.

Again... a missed opportunity in that I always believed and wanted to see Dany on DWTS.

R179 She sure did from the Judges. Sabra had it easy from them. Lacey was also stuck with that guy for the first five dances who was stunning, but limited. When she got to top ten she shone having a better class of partner. Heard there was trouble on tour between Lacey and Lauren

Ok. This is a POSE thread not SYTYCD. Cut it out now. Take it somewhere else.

[quote]I agree. At least, Elektra brings camp, but Damon. . .

Elektra is great with the physicality of the role, watching her stomp down the runway at the end was nice, but they give her these long Sue from Glee-type monologues and it doesn't work.

But yes, Damon is just as bad with no redeeming features. You'd think the reason he was hired was his dancing ability, but yeah he is not some great dancer either.

I'm still in on the show, there is a lot of good there. The two bottoms "what are ya'll gonna do bump purses" line felt like it could have been lifted from the DL. (As does the white gay guys being virulently anti-trans...)

r175 What a nasty little creature you are.

R165, that’s the downside of casting for diversity. When you can only pick from a limited pool of viable candidates, you aren’t always going to get the most talented performers.

Still, the rest of the cast is pretty good for such a niche casting pool.

I'm gonna finish the season as well. I'm not into the trans thing but it is awesome that they have the real thing in this show. I'm all for truth and authenticity. I think MJ Rodriguez is adorable. So warm and funny as Blanca. Evan Peters and Indya Moore too. They do have good chemistry together.

2nd episode: 0.19 A18-49. Didn't drop too much.

r85 That pool is only limited today because it hadn't been used in the past to such an extent, if at all. I'm sure many gay and trans PoC will now recognize acting might be a viable career path for them after watching this show. Gotta start somewhere and I for one am glad someone's decided to break the ice.

There are so many worse things going on right now to bitch about than a black gay kid booking an acting gig. In fact, the more I read this thread, the more I get the feeling that DL is like that gay bar in the second episode; all Judy, Barbra, and Ethel Merman all the time, if you know what I mean. No room for or even interest in different experiences and perspectives.

[quote]There are so many worse things going on right now to bitch about than a black gay kid booking an acting gig.

This is a discussion thread for the TV show, I'll bitch about world events in other threads.

Talking about the acting is a pretty central concept to discussing a TV show. There is no getting around him not being great at it, it was a noticeable part of both episodes.

“If you don’t praise this show you are a bad person”

So tiresome

R182 Yes we did love. sorry, it is just Pose is so dreary and dank

its ratings are tanking cause its fake as fuk and the leads are NOT FUN

FX’s POSE fell 0.05 from last week’s premiere to 0.19. That puts it behind even The Talking Dead.

What were the total viewers?

R194 Under 100,000?

R193 how high of a rating were they expecting? It's not like it was going to be a blockbuster. I'm sure they had some target but I think this show is not really about ratings for them.

R195 for real? Jesus I thought every tranny and crossdresswe would at least be tuning in. Can’t expect to attract viewers with crappy writing and casting.

The June 5 show had 688,000 viewers. Haven't found the numbers for this past Sunday.

[quote] I thought every tranny and crossdresswe would at least be tuning in

Considering how very low the viewership is, they probably are.

I wasn't even gonna watch but decided to because it's only 8 episodes and curiousity got the best of me. I know all about that time period and love it and this show is not doing a good job. Also, like others have said, it's trans so nobody is trying to hear that. Only a small handful. I'm surprised it has any viewers at all and it doesn't deserve any. I'm watching though. Curious to see what they did and they are failing. They are not capturing it all. And the Damon boy has to go. Soundtrack is bangin. But the historical accuracy is not there and that's important. But what can you expect from two white guys running the show telling a black/blatino/latino story. How dare they.

R200 the two white guys are being advised by a boatload of paid advisers who are black/blatino/latino.

The storyline has limited appeal so it was never going to have a ton of viewers. It's not meant to be a trans version of Will & Grace that tries to reach and make connections with those outside the community.

There are three show creators, the third of whom is black and gay, so you’re going to have to save your White Men Are The Cause Of Everything Bad diatribe for another topic.

^^^chill. Nobody said all that. The show just comes across as someone who watched the movie and finds the whole scene and it's people fascinating. Not someone who was actually there and lived it. That's all I'm saying. So cut it with the white male bashing shit. That's not even my style.

Now we know why Murphy said he was going to donate the proceeds. With ratings like this I am sure that $3.21 will go far for black trans sex workers....

They are losing money on this shit so what is Murphy going to donate?

If this was his fuck you to FX can't they fuck him back and cancel it?

R206 Only 8 episodes, and imagine the tranny mentals if they cancelled it, TRIGGERED

It's a niche show with a summer premiere. It was never going to have big numbers. This isn't a surprise to them.

Oh if its 8 episodes its probably in Murphy's contract that they air all of them.

They will air all of them. They probably wrote it knowing it would likely only be 8 episodes. I bet the season finale wraps things up well.

Season finale nearly all of them die of aids, so predictable.

Well, that's what happen to all the real people so that makes sense.

R198, meet r187. It only got 584k total live viewers.

I wonder what does that time slot normally get. I hope Pose brought in more viewers than its predecessor.

[quote] it could have been lifted from the DL. (As does the white gay guys being virulently anti-trans...

That is exactly what I thought. I'm a chick, and I never thought gay men could be racist or against transsexuals due to the fact that they have been ostracized. Naive girl.

R214 Not against transexuals, just would be nice if the depiction in the show was realistic of how they behaved in this era.

R215 wouldn't be PC in today's environment.

[quote]just would be nice if the depiction in the show was realistic of how they behaved in this era.

How did they behave in that era?

R217 Drug, drink, sex, trade, party, repeat

Two episodes in, I think it's okay, if not spectacular. It's what I would expect from Murphy - a glossy, broad series about this time/scene/culture. It's sort of like Cliff Notes for people who are not familiar with ball culture, trans people, 80s NYC and suburban dads on the down low. It sketches a broad outline, but if you really want to learn about all of that as it really was, you'd have to dig much deeper.

Billy Porter as Pray Tell is great. The ball scenes are okay, but don't capture the full energy of a ball, even one recreated for TV. I like Blanca and Angel the best. Angel's arc with Stan is fine, but doesn't seem vital. Elektra is okay so far. She's the queer villain, but I think her and Blanca will work it out in the end. I think Damon is a real dud. He's sweet, but he grates. I don't think the actor playing him is doing so great, but we'll see. He sure as hell can't dance. I have more to say, but I'll wait.

Everyone I talked to after the first pilot, even the ones who loved it, thought the audition scene was ridiculous. I don't think it really matters in overall narrative, so it didn't bother me that such a poor dancer would get into the school. He was better in the opening scene in the second episode, but that's not saying much.

I'm not watching it live. I purchased the season pass on Amazon for $13.99 (well, more like $3.99 since I used Amazon Visa points). I can't be the only one. Though, I don't think there's an enormous number of non-live viewers.

The audition was supposed to be bad, I think. He looks great in the class, although to perform a complete dance number like that is silly. They'd all be doing the same moves, unless they're already working on a faculty piece, which is also wrong.

Pizza date guy is cute!

The ballet 2nd time, same four dancers, was odd and also mediocre choreography. The ending set to 'Hall of the Mountain King' started off well, but faltered. I was hoping for a full-on trans invasion of the gay bar.

[quote]Drug, drink, sex, trade, party, repeat

Well, they did show this w/one character selling drugs, one is a prostitute, and the ball is kind of like a party.

Oh they pushed this show like crazy during the Hilary Swank-Donald Sutherland Getty show. I had absolutely no interest in "the scene" then and even less than no interest now. The show has limited appeal at best and I say it as a 53 year old gay man of New York. Now that read they bashed white gay men forget about it.

The trans thing is waaaay overdone anyway and was over the moment clueless Obama declared school bathrooms needed to accommodate trans kids.

The very lucky one-note Ryan Murphy will flop on Netflix if this is the product he plans to deliver.

It's totally a glossy version. The real life experience was much more gritty, grimey, dirty and desperate. The ball people were ruthless, rough criminals with a lot of joy and humor too. A lot of sadness. LOTS of drugs, sex, and death. NYC was a completely different place. Everytime they show that pier i just crack up and think where the hell are they supposed to be? Haha. Just putting people in the background half ass dancing with a boom box. It's totally ryan murphy. It's the pop white version.

Yes, this is like the ABC Afterschool Special version of the '80s ball scene. Everybody's clean and shiny, the street kids have hearts of gold, and much of the dialogue consists of heavy-handed "teachable moments." Love the music, though.

Billy Porter is great. It's reminds me of the character he played in Netflix's The Get Down. I love Pray Tell's love for Blanca.

R226, if you think that people are able to show trans people in anything other than the most positive light in 2018, you’re wrong.

We’re past the time of complex, nuanced characters that don’t fit the mold. After all, the SJW trolls on Twitter who don’t watch TV but love to feel outrage over it don’t have the mental capacity or maturity to understand that people living on the fringes often self destruct and lash out at those closest to them.

I don't get why guys pick up tranny prostitutes? What's the attraction? Are these johns just closeted homos?

Even though I like it, I'm annoyed by the huge percentage of glowing reviews. Yes, it shows a mainstream audience a slice of life they may have never seen before. Also, a show can just be judged on whether it's entertaining and that may justify a good review. I get that. But, no one has really taken it to task for how glossy it is, and how inaccurate it can be (The Atlantic went there halfway). I know it's not supposed to be a documentary and it's essentially simply "based on" 80s ball culture, and it's a Murphy FX production so its look and tone and narrative is totally unsurprising. But, I wish a good reviewer would point out how vastly different NYC and the ball culture was compared to what is in the show.

Unrelated, I know it isn't the show's intention to, in any way, show the whole of 80s NYC gay life/nightlife, but the show presents a binary take - black and brown gays/trans were into ball culture (those who actually were into that scene were but a mere subset of black and brown gays), while white gays were hanging out drinking gin and tonics at places like Boylounge (or wherever Blanca was trying to get a drink). Lol. It's still early though.

I’m in at least for now. We’ll see if they can maintain. The dance audition scene was embarrassingly bad.

I like the show so far. The Angel and Blanca characters are my favorites.

Damon's audition would never have gained entrance into a performing arts school (maybe a spot in a high school musical).

I don't think his awful audition really matters to the narrative.

Some of you bitches love to complain about everything.

I love scenes in seedy adult bookstores. I wonder why that is? The scene with Angel in the bookstore reminded me of Season Hubley in Hardcore.

It was a nice touch showing the janitor mopping up the nacreous layer of permacum in one of the Show World booths.

had high hopes for this, but its like pablum compared to Paris is Burning..

how could they get it so wrong. the casting is abysmal...

[quote]Some of you bitches love to complain about everything.

Tell me about it.

My goodness. Let the show breathe. Maybe, it doesn't want to be a total rendition of the life back in the day. Perhaps, it just wants to a touch of it and do its own thing.

Stop defending mediocrity! Shit is shit.

I think the quality of the dancing in the audition does matter if you want to make the show realistic.

Damon is the weakest link. He's annoying and not a good dancer. I don't understand why the producers didn't hire a trained dancer with talent. There are legions of talented dancers who can also act.

People will be complaining about the audition scene until this show is just a memory.

And Cuba Gooding Jr STILL looks nothing like OJ Simpson!

The tranny who is going to be getting it on with Evan Peters as Patrick Bateman is beautiful. Is she a biological woman?

The lead trannys are the worst actors in the history of tv

the whole thing is so fake its like it was made by st8 people....

No, Imaya Moore is a transexual.

She's gorgeous...unlike certain other trans celebrities...

but has the acting skills of a possum.

R246 lol still she’s better than the other ones

The first scene of the film shows "1978"...and there are no subsequent scenes where they give you a later year, so I'm left with the expectation that we are looking at that specific timeframe.

Therefore, hearing pretty much all of the soundtrack being from 1983-1986, and Blanca being diagnosed with "HIV", I found distracting.

I must be alone here, but I "LIVE" for Elektra. That is one fun scene stealing bitch, with a bit of heart that you see from time to time. I think she's doing an incredible job with that part.

[quote]The first scene of the film shows "1978"...and there are no subsequent scenes where they give you a later year, so I'm left with the expectation that we are looking at that specific timeframe.

Are you referring to "Pose" or something else? (I'm confused by your use of the word "film.") I'm pretty sure that it said "1987" somewhere along the line. And there's no way we are in pre-AIDS 1978.

"I must be alone here, but I "LIVE" for Elektra."

I can appreciate Elektra's over-enunciating ass for the big, bold, camp value she brings. I get the actor isn't very good, but I still enjoy her scenes.

I like the show, but it would have been a thousand times better if a handsome actor were cast as Damon. It's not like he was chosen because he's such a good actor or dancer. Same goes for Evan Peters' role. Give us the eye candy, Ryan.

r252 The guy who played Ricky was 10 times hotter.

I’m so glad Elektra is getting love in the last few posts. I rewatched her first scene when she went nuts on Blanca. It was so fun and over the top. She has charisma to spare.

Damon’s audition scene for the school was so embarrassing. He was dancing like a spastic toddler at a birthday party. And you could swap in any fast tempo song and it wouldn’t make a difference (save for the peridioc lip syncing). The choreography was shit.

Evan Peters getting top billing is BULLSHIT. I love how even a show BUILT AROUND black ballroom culture gives star billing to a straight white guy who isn’t exactly the Michelle Pfeiffer Dangerous Minds type lead character in an otherwise minority cast.

That’s all.

The order of names is worked out by agents during contract negotiations. Evan Peters agent got that for his client because he is the biggest name in a cast of largely unknowns. He would be a bad agent if he didn't get that.

R254 there are viewers tuning in solely because they are fans of Evan Peters because as pointed out he is the biggest name in the cast. He should get top billing. The unknowns aren't bringing in fans.

R256 Nobody is bringing in any viewers

But Evan Peters is white! And straight! He needs to be punished!!!!

He doesn't need to be punished at all, the producers do. Though, since it's an ensemble show, someone has to be the be billed first. That Kate Mara is billed at all is strange, but maybe her role greatly expands.

[quote]I like the show, but it would have been a thousand times better if a handsome actor were cast as Damon. It's not like he was chosen because he's such a good actor or dancer. Same goes for Evan Peters' role. Give us the eye candy, Ryan.

I like Evan Peters, but I have to agree. We need the pretty.

R250, my age is showing. You are right, the year said 1987 not 1978.

Now it makes more sense. I think I got distracted by the playing of "On the Radio" as the first song we hear when Damon is dancing in his room...my dyslexia got confirmed, and I was off to the disco era of my youth, and started to take umbrage with all these 80s songs being played during the wrong time period.

Time for bed!

The producers should have cast the guy who plays Damon's pizza date as the Damon character. The former is a lot more charismatic and handsome than the actor playing Damon.

I agree Damon can't act, but I thought he was just fine during the scenes with his parents.

That scene was the rare exception. He has this annoying habit of lifting his nose in the air in every scene. Ugh!

That's because he has big chompers.

[quote]Evan Peters agent got that for his client because he is the biggest name in a cast of largely unknowns.

Seriously?

R254 Oh yeah, the billing is ridiculous. Ok, Peters and Kata Mara, I guess, are the 'names' but the real lead actors trailing behind them is insane.

sorry excuse for a show.

will wait when its over and go bak and binge watch the evan peters parts

the lead trannys are pathetic actors. Lousy with a capital L

[quote] the lead trannys are pathetic actors. Lousy with a capital L

However they identify as Laurence Olivier by way of Maggie Smith. What more can you ask.

LOL..

The bright white bleached teeth that the characters have throw me off. No one had bright white teeth like that back then, especially people who have been living on the street. Otherwise I'm in love with the show, I just wrapped up episode two.

they sound like they are reading cue cards from Love Boat circa 1988

Love Boat was 1988? I don't think that's right...?

Just watched both episodes. LOVE IT. So many emotions were brought out of me. I laughed, cried, cheered and got angry. Awesome soundtrack and wonderful performances.

"The Love Boat" ran from '77 through '87.

No one in 2018 wants to watch actors with 1987 colored teeth.

Are these really tranis playing the roles or women?

Some of both, I think.

All the trans roles are being played by trans.

Teen Vogue: "Pose" Is Making Television History With These 5 Transgender Actors

[quote] "Pose" Is Making Television History With These 5 Transgender Actors

Does a tree falling in the woods make history if nobody is there to watch it.

Since they are not sticking that closely to the actual history I'm surprised they didn't include any trans men.

Nobody's watching tonight?

Angel is going to meet a tragic end, isn't she?

I always watch the next day, R282, when it's posted to Amazon video where I have a season pass.

Yeah I watch the next day on the FX website. I watch Westworld live.

Another episode with many touching scenes. Loved Angel and Evan Peters making love to Janet Jackson’s “Let’s Wait Awhile”. The scene where Electra and the Latina robbed the FAO Schwartz Santa had me ROFLMAO. Van Der Beek was looking hot. Can’t wait to see Meloni in next week’s episode.

r286 agreed great episode. It was actually a great Christmas episode and one I'll watch again during the holidays.

Van Der Beek is great as a slimeball.

I’m pretty impressed that this is on TV, even if it’s cable. Murphy is all in, and although the dialogue can be pat and trite, it’s amazing seeing these actors and the situations they’re dealing with. Yes, it’s far too clean and nowhere near as gritty as the eighties or even the early nineties in NY, but at least they’re trying.

Elektra Abundance is becoming my favorite character/ villain on this show. Tonight she mentioned that she’s being funded by a rich suiter and for some strange reason I’m sensing that it’s James Van Der Beek’s character.

James van der Beek's azz is to die for. If your ass sticks out when you're wearing a Brooks Brothers suit then it's pretty special. And next week we get Chris Meloni in a towel. This has become my favorite new show. And it's really nice to see the fabulous Charlayne Woodard in a high profile show. The scene in the AIDS ward was heartbreaking. Garbage in the halls and the rooms, patients in dirty gowns, nurses afraid to bring them their meals, pneumonia is a death sentence. Yes, that really happened.

I was born days before the gift giving scene at the end took place, yet I had to stop the episode twice because I got so upset with those hospital scenes. Can't remember the last time I sobbed during a TV show. Absolutely heartbreaking.

Couldn't they have given Angel a sexy pantyhose to wear for the lovemaking scene? Those manky socks were a needle scratch moment for me.

Here's a nice little gif I made of Lil' Papi's exquisite dancing. He's actually a genius, though no one at that time gets those moves yet.

He's so goofy. Please give him a boyfriend already, thank you.

I looooovvvve the show

I love that they touched on the racism and the discrimination against transgendered from the white gay males in the second episode

Blanca is my favorite. Her willingness to go out on a limb for people makes me root for her every time. I pray the series ends on a good note for her.

JVDB’s ass needs to be cast and displayed. It’s that magnificent. And speaking of great asses, can’t wait for Meloni next week.

They better not go too far south with Lil Papi’s drug dealing storyline. I hope he redeems himself and doesn’t die by the end of this season. Ryan & Co like dropping bodies left and right on their shows.

There was an episode of Don't Trust the B that featured JVBM's bubble butt a good amount. He had a suplot of launching BJ Denim.

You bitches were shitting all over this show when it was first announced!

A lot of those obsessive trans-haters who were shitting on it were not people who are actually going to watch it and post about it r297. Just drive by hate-mongering.

Just checking out this thread now. Caught the first two episodes last weekend; I was VERY dubious because of Ryan Murphy, but I ended up being engaged.

The most glaring flaw was the dancer’s audition in episode one. After the buildup and Bianca’s impassioned speech to the instructor, I expected to be wowed — or at least impressed. The dance was totally unimpressive and it really stretched credibility that he would be admitted to the school. The husband and I looked at each other when it was done and said, “That’s it?!”

Glad to see a lot of DL folks upthread agree!

[quote]Glad to see a lot of DL folks upthread agree!

r299 Why is it so important to you that others share your erroneous (and ever so subtly racist) read of that scene? His audition was more than fine, plus the dean clearly took a pity on him because she saw that dying student in him. Have you people ever seen a dance audition by a kid before? They're fucking rough and derivative as hell, you guys. Hence the need to apply to a dance school.

Perhaps try focusing on something else instead? Because complaining that a homeless gay black kid shouldn't have been accepted to a dance school is not a good look on anyone, seriously.

R300 is losing their grip on the fact that this is a TV show, and that was a scene in which the audience is meant to be impressed by his audition.

Wait, Evan Peters is trans?

I posted earlier about Damian's dance audition and said it was dreadful and there's no way he would have been accepted into a school especially after admissions had ended and the classes were full. I stand by that. I don't care if he's black and homeless or one of those privileged whites (like me). He still sucked and in no way was he a revelation. Her former student's delirious dance in the hospital was far more impressive and powerful.

Thank you, R301, I appreciate the defense. I’d said I enjoyed the show and my only criticism was that the audition scene seemed unbelievable because of the dancing. It was interesting to me that other people on DL felt similarly, so in hindsight maybe I should have substituted the phrase “Glad to see..” with the phrase “Interesting to see” . Didn’t expect to trigger anyone.

I think the questionable acting ability of some of the cast is part of its charm; it's not the most polished of programmes on TV but it's good fun and has a bit of heart to it.

Really enjoying what I've seen so far.

Completely agree, r305. In fact, when the "names" are on the screen its distracting, except of course the scene btw Evan and Angel last night (I thought the socks on Angel were a great visual--he is still a guy after all) and the impending arrival next week of Meloni

[quote]Blanca is my favorite. Her willingness to go out on a limb for people makes me root for her every time. I pray the series ends on a good note for her.

Me too! I'm like, please, please, oh please make her wise up and take the meds.

I really enjoyed this weeks episode. Again, it's glossy, and there's some questionable acting, but it works. Love Ricky becoming more of a regular. Blanca is the best, agree.

r289 From the previews,it looks like Elektra's sugar daddy is Chris Meloni.

So Elektra asked Santa to bring her a pussy for Christmas?

Did people use the expression "that's my lane" in the '80s?

I want to be double-teamed by Lil Papi and Ricky.

I tried once again to view it, but its like watching a high school play, turdy kids pretending to be actors, . . actual professional producers and directors were involved in this retarded production??

the look on evan peters face says it all when he has to go kiss and make love to that beast..

it must be some sort of ironic comedy where no one has a clue.

"Angel is going to meet a tragic end, isn't she? "

Characters named Angel always do.

R313) That's 3 hours of viewing, posting on this thread, and you just now decided it wasn't for you? Who is the tard?

I'm envisioning the honchos at FX after seeing the abysmal ratings:

"Pose? Strike it."

Pose scored a 2.1 rating in Adults 18-49 this past Sunday, putting it at #45 for the night among all cable shows. It was sandwiched between a Lifetime movie and the 5 pm showing of Tom Cruise vehicle "American Made" on HBO.

Contrary to an earlier suggestion, it's pulling in a much older audience -- its 18-34 rating is just .12, it's 50+ rating is .22.

The good thing is the ratings are being pretty stable.

The bad thing is they are stably very bad ratings.

I thought it was a one-off series, like Gianni Versace? So, if it's already made, ratings really don't matter since it doesn't have to get renewed.

It's a pretty niche topic though isn't it? I doubt anyone was expecting Game of Thrones-level viewing figures.

It'll probably do very well on the streaming channels.

No, it is not conceived to be a one-off miniseries. They have never described it that way r319.

They are definitely hoping for a renewal.

Why do I get the feeling Ricky is going to get the AIDS.

[quote]It's a pretty niche topic though isn't it? I doubt anyone was expecting Games of Thrones-level viewing figures.

Ryan Murphy definitely thought it would be a big mainstream hit. He said so himself in that New Yorker profile last month. He claimed it would have a broad demographic.

It's not a mainstream hit, and if it was only intended to be one season, it doesn't really matter - to us anyway. It might matter to Murphy in terms of the dollar amount of new deals (he seems to have done okay regardless since the Netflix deal was signed before Pose) or creative freedom on projects.

[quote]and if it was only intended to be one season

You keep saying this but I have no idea where you are getting it from, it was never be described as a miniseries

[quote] The network has ordered eight episodes for Season 1, which is scheduled to begin production in February in New York. It’s slated to premiere on FX in summer 2018.

The series order specified Season 1.

I can't believe that it was really conceived to go more than one season. They would have been better off describing it from the get go as a miniseries.

This way, in the event it was a massive success, they could have claimed the ratings as a positive thing and then converted it into a regular series.

R323 but a broad demographic among who? Soap opera-type mini-series are the type of thing that usually draws in women. Not to be snarky but why would women want to watch this particular show?

The main female character is a huge loser. She's stuck at home with kids while her husband is out dazzling a lover who can offer her husband something she never can - a penis. Her husband won't even buy her a lousy dishwasher but gives Angel a rent-free apartment. That might be the ultimate soap storyline for transgender people but it's not going to be that entertaining for women to watch.

Unlike gay-focused fare, I'm not sure that trans-related stories attract women at all. This is no Tales of the City.

Where did they find that guy who played the dying AIDS patient? (The dancer who actually died during the episode.) He was SCARY-looking. I hope he doesn't have real life health issues.

shitty ratings

shitty show

mr murphy how could u have made such boring shit?

It just this minute occurs to me to wonder. Are the Wachowskis somehow mixed up in this.

Nah R330 not enough S&M dungeon action

The writing and plots are wonderful mixture. There is a lot of boiler-plate platitudes and gagworthy gritty sentimentality, it reminds me of every production ever done about "downtown" and bohemian lifestyles that most of us only know a little about. Heavily romanticised and moral. Screeching screaming juxtapositions of the AIDS plot lines into the other. However there is a lot of lyrical cinematography. Stan (Evans) going to see Angel at ShowWorld was so wonderfully and tightly, directed, written, acted. And real. There are MANY flashes of this tight verisimilitude in every episode. Dominique Jackson is great to watch. What you bitches talking about with the "bad acting". A couple of her scenes with Blanca were very human, VERY inside their world. On the street after Dominique makes Blanca's bail, and then again in Blanca's nail salon. The actress Mj Rodriguez at the balls is a JOKE - she doesn't have the body or the moves. Dominique does.

One small quibble I have is Blanca supposed being snubbed by white homos at "their" bar. This is supposed to be about 1985 and that plot line seems to come out of the 60's! East Village, West Village and every night spot that I knew of, no club or bar had scenes like the heavy fake ones in this series. It is TOTALLY written to create some false narrative to give Blanca a trans civil rights subplot.

I liked the throwaway about the burnt champagne in the Category is Dynasty at the ball.

R325, I'm the one who keeps going on about the one-season thing. I honestly thought it was supposed to be a limited series like OJ or Versace. For some reason, it just made sense to me that it would be a one-and-done series.

R333 All the gay characters are horrible, all the trannys are magical and real because it is an endless stupid polemic. And fuck the=at pimp Janet Mock being involved, the dumb bastard who thinks prostitution is the bestesty life, dumb man

I think Ricky is a good gay character. Damon, on the other hand, ugh.

There’s something quite heartfelt and deeply emotional about this show. Yes, the acting continues to be at times quite amateurish, but then a trans actor will have a moment that’s so real pass over their face that it just wipes the floor with the more polished straight actors. I’m really liking this show.

R338 That isn't acting, it is luck. An actor can deliver that level take after take. The trans actors suck balls. Every single one

The script is boiler-plate R339. These are not Yale School of Drama graduates. Also, trans. I think the script fits the context in interesting ways and trans people, well especially in the 80's in that scene, and I was there, have several layers of artifice and boiler plate in the way they communicate. They are men taking on all sorts of roles they have seen at home in their community but also in decades of pop culture. Don't forget, this is supposed to be a bit of a "pulp" genre of entertainment.

I love the show and can’t wait to own it on DVD.

I don’t trust Ricky. I like Damon a lot.

They all shady characters in the 3 episodes so far except Blanca.

I don't trust Ricky, but I like the character.

Hello! I'm on the show, too! Why is no one talking about me?!

Of all the transgender actors, I think Angel (Indya Moore) is the most talented. The look on her face when she got her red pumps for Christmas was just heartbreaking.

I wish they had cast a better actor for Blanca, though. She's just awful.

[quote] I'm on the show, too! Why is no one talking about me?!

Because it is no longer the Year of the Shoulder.

R347 LOL! I loved that episode.

I love MJ Rodriguez as Blanca. She gives the character heart, and you believe that she wants to do right by the kids in her house.

I love the Angel and Evan Peters story line. I also don't trust Ricky.

The scene at the bar was right on. Many gay men discriminate against trans people, especially transgender women of color.

I don't understand all the hate for the trans actors. None of them will ever get into Julliard but, frankly, they're alot more interesting to watch than most Julliard graduates.

R352 It has nothing to do with them being transgender. Bad actors are bad actors. Period.

Great episode. Billy Porter is a treasure.

Billy Porter just made me cry. You got that right, r354

The music in the show is terrific, but Swing Out Sister's "Breakout" was inspired. I just wish they didn't end the song so abruptly.

lousy casting.

amateurs....

BORING AMATEURS

But yet you obviously keep tuning in, r357

Electra's Big Papa is played by Chris Meloni. He's still a sexy fucker.

This show is such a mess. I can't believe FX is airing it. I get the vibe and "important message" but I can't imagine anybody is into this. Anybody. It's just not a viable concept for a series - even if it was HBO/Showtime - and hitting everyone over the head every moment with the trans and/or AIDS angle isn't engendering anyone to the cause. Preaching to the choir. And, furthermore, the lead dancer kid is absolutely horrible as an actor, dancer and everything else. His casting is a major WTF, especially since Ryan Murphy has this amazing assortment of kids from GLEE who could have absolutely nailed the part (Jacob Artist?!). Very weird. It's like a fever dream, but not the good kind. That said, the acting isn't that bad and the writing is nice, but it's just such a clusterfuck.

Another great episode. Loved the soundtrack tonight, too. And Meloni’s melons were visible even under that robe. That man has an ass (and bod) that just won’t quit.

Turns out Lil' Papi is the token straight guy. Well, fuck that shit. I always fall for the straight ones, sigh.

I don't understand the Lil' Papi character --- is he supposed to be gay?

r363 No, he's just a poor straight guy right now, possibly abandoned as a kid. He let men suck his dick for money back when he was homeless.

r363

he also said that he is an equal opportunity lover in the last ep implying he is bisexual but he said he prefers the ladies

The “Wings” episode where Bernard had to pretend to be engaged to sleazeball Roy to appease his mother (played by Rose Marie — and yes, it’s pathetic that I remember this!) was hilarious.

Wrong thread, hun R366

D’OH — I am indeed more pathetic than I thought! Sorry, folks!

The silicon injection scenes were so dismal, and yet it was all true. In fact Episode 4 was filled with grim stuff. I stopped watching 3 times before I got through it. I'm surprised this got made. It narrates some dark times.

I think episode 4 is the best one so far. Like r369 said, many of the scenes felt real. The one scene where Candy gets the budget injection in that terrifying basement felt authentic as did the scene between Blanca and Pray Tell. It came across as two friends talking. Pray Tell in the nursing room was heartbreaking. The show gets better and better for me.

Billy Porter's scene in the hospital was incredible. But Dominique Jackson was awful - just awful. Watching her try to act opposite someone like Chris Meloni, who knows what he's doing, was almost painful. Girl cannot act.

[quote]I'm surprised this got made. It narrates some dark times.

But it does it in a way that feels like a Very Special Episode of "Fame," circa 1982.

r371 I appreciate that she's bringing her own experience into it (that part would have been played by a biological woman even five years ago, I'm sure), but yeah, her delivery is terrible. Hopefully, they're aware of that and will adjust the script towards the end. Although why the showrunners hadn't caught that during table reads is beyond me. But perhaps they had and goodwill prevailed over creative sense.

And I agree that the issue really came through while she was lying in Meloni's lap and was just waiting for her turn, instead of reacting to him. Moments like those really make me appreciate good acting and the effort that goes into the craft. I know I'd be way worse than Dominique if I ever took a shot at it.

She was better in other scenes but the scene with Meloni was awkward.

I see Dominique Jackson as playing a character who is for the most part 100% on. Elektra is nuts. Oh and are they just going to FORGET that Elektra promised her girls presents with the money they stole. Elektra is immoral and a narcissist but also someone who was hurt and then built up an armour. She is not going to let down everything she fabricated. I hope the next episode at least lets her girls have a crack at that armour, over the money. Also, the series goes right to some central questions - like why are men with chicks with dicks. Its quite true that the men in relationships with chicks with dicks do NOT want the tranny to get the chop. It is usually a completely different pond of men who may be interested in a tranny with a faked, open wound snatch.

[quote] Girl cannot act.

Nope. It has been repeated on this thread but neither Dominique Jackson nor Ryan Swain have any real acting skill, and it shows with their amateur line deliveries. Harsh, but true.

Dominique is on and off with her acting to me. More stiff and awkward with her delivery than on most of the time.

Elektra/Dominique is fine when she's throwing shade, lecturing her subjects - it's still bad and clipped, but it works since it's so campy. But, when she's attempting actual dramatic scenes, it grates a little. That said, I just ignore it. and take the show for what it is. I've enjoyed it for the most part.

Pose cracked the Sunday cable top 25 for the first time on June 24 with a 0.3 rating, up from .21 the week before.

It is nice that the ratings increased rather than fell. If that trend continues it could make FX believe that the show can find an audience.

Wonderful news, thanks!

I was loving Dominique until her scene with Chris Meloni. Next to him she really came off like an amateur. I wonder how many takes they had to do.

They could save a lot of time by just having Dominique do one take. Is it really going to get that much better upon multiple takes? She's not a good actor, but it's a good character. So, just let her stumble through it and don't try to make her a thespian.

agreed R383.

r383 That's what I was thinking as well. There's no way they'd bother with more than one take.

And even though I've brought up her lack of acting skills numerous times now (in response to others), I'm fine with it. She doesn't ruin the show for me or anything.

Me either, R385.

I actually think the actress who plays Candy is a much better actress than Dominique. She seems much more natural.

Angelica Ross (Candy) has worked a lot.

R388 she used to be a hooker and made something with legit jobs and startups. And acting now.

The only thing Dominique Swain does well on this show is enter and exit a scene.

This is set in the 80's and Elektra is in the ballpark for that time and the kind of passing tranny she deludes herself to be. She's an interesting character to see in 2018.

Reddit cracks me up sometimes:

[quote]Elektra, I will pay for your operation if you can use a contraction. One, single, real word.

I'll never be able to [italic]not[/italic] notice that going forward.

Her clipped, loud, oratory style, without contractions, makes me laugh, but in a good way. Again, it sort of works when she's just arguing at the balls and throwing shade at people, but when she's in supposedly quieter, reflective settings, it's just campy - like when she was in the coffee shop talking to the young trans (I think) who idolized her.

I haven't seen it yet but can that style of speaking be heard in the Paris Is Burning documentary as well? Because that's the only explanation I can think of for this particular creative decision.

"Transsexualism operation" made me laugh because it sounds so archaic and because it came out of Elektra's mouth, but it also made me cringe as I thought of all the straight people who will now think that's still the correct term.

R394 - Pose is not a remake of that ancient documentary. It is a fictional series based on historic time and events. Dominique is from Trinidad Tobago and the way she speaks is within that Caribbean English.

She tells her story here.

[quote] I thought of all the straight people who will now think that's still the correct term.

Do you really think there are any straight people watching that fiasco?

How much of this show is tranny wish fulfillment?

Well they haven't lied about tranny chasers not wanting their tranny lovers to chop off their dicks. Todays crop would find this absolutely scandalous and insist everyone if fine with all their lies and everyone wants to fuck their gashes.

This show is far far from a fiasco but obviously has very limited appeal even to most gay men. Especially miserable cunts like some of you are.

Interesting comparison to all the trans operations and HIV testing; realness vs. lying about one's status.

Yes, a bit too After-School Special. But when has any TV show even bothered with the topic in years?

Also, interesting casual CGI insertion of the WTC in one shot (better done in 'Angels in America')

"Angels in America is one of the first "period" pictures to etch the fallen World Trade Center onto the skyline, and in cinematographer Steven Bernstein, effects supervisor Richard Edlund and Mike Nichols' incarnation, its panorama is mistiness against mistiness, distinct in its indistinctness. As the key shot begins, traveling across a Brooklyn rooftop, we see Mary Louise Parker barefoot-in-the-rain flexing herself against gravity as she turns to her estranged husband and intones a line like, "The end of the world is beginning." Heavy-handed or feathery frisson? I"

WTC in 'Pose' ep. 4.

r396 I know it's not a remake but thanks for being a condescending asshole. I was just curious whether there was such a strong character in that documentary who inspired the showrunners to have her talk like that.

I loved the Twin Towers coming out of Blanca's head when she was doling out some life wisdom at the pier.

Wow, Dominique is much more beautiful and a better actress when she’s just being herself. Thanks for the you tube video - great story and I like her better now.

I must admit this show has me all misty. Pray Tell in the nurse office - OMG.

I'm committed to watch this show until the end, but it's become a chore to watch. I find myself fast-forwarding through the Evan Peters scenes.

It's weird how Blanca has turned into a supporting player, when she was the clear lead in the first 2 episodes. Maybe the producers saw that she wasn't very good and beefed up the other characters' storylines at the last minute.

With this show, and lackluster recent seasons of AHS and ACS, I wonder if Netflix is second-guessing the mega contract they just signed with Murphy?

I like the show but can’t stand the Damon character. Truly awful.

R406 well don't be a martyr. If you don't enjoy it stop watching.

Evans is eye candy (again - he looks cleaned up and fit here) and his character feels accurate enough. Tranny chasers are odd birds.

I may be in the minority but I'm really enjoying it and finding it very moving. Each of the last two episodes made me cry at some point -- I know, I know: MARY!

I'm impressed with MJ Rodriguez, who's very strong, IMO, especially since her previous film/TV acting credits were mostly guest spots.

And Billy Porter is fabulous. I second R405 re: Pray Tell's post-results scene.

[quote]I was loving Dominique until her scene with Chris Meloni. Next to him she really came off like an amateur. I wonder how many takes they had to do.

If I were doing a scene with a half-naked Meloni, I'd demand as many takes as I could.

The whole storyline with Damon an his "flu," was ridiculous. He couldn't possibly be so ignorant as not to have considered that he might have gotten HIV after experiencing those symptoms.

R411 And if we're to believe he never had sex with a man until he got with this boyfriend of his, if it was HIV, he wouldn't have gotten that sick that fast.

That whole storyline felt like a public service announcement about safe sex.

I'm enjoying Pose, but the actor who plays Damon is so awful, that when he's on the screen, the show comes to a screeching halt. If he was a decent dancer, it would be fine, but he flops around like a fish out of water. He couldn't even make it past the judges on So You Think You Can Dance. But other than him, I look forward to watching each week, and I've become totally invested in all the other characters.

[quote]That whole storyline felt like a public service announcement about safe sex.

The whole show feels like a PSA. It’s so earnest and so sanitized. But I can’t stop watching.

Ok further education for you R412. One can seroconvert within 3-4 weeks of transmission. Its the first effect, when the virus replicates enormously. Then the immune response kicks in. Those 2 guys were screwing for a few weeks, if not months.... Time is odd in this series.. But just a few weeks would be enough to seroconvert.

Too many Tranny’s pour Moi.

I wonder if Elektra will kill Meloni and stuff him in a trunk a la Dorian Corey, her clear inspiration.

Correct, R415, but I think what people are missing is that this young uneducated kid was panicked that he might have HIV, and it turned out it was the flu after all. It can happen...

R402, I also like seeing WTC in the series, but it's distracting to me, because these scenes on the W10 Street Pier, the twin towers would be on the other side, south of the Pier, not north.

MJ Rodriguez is excellent in this. I don’t see how anyone can say otherwise.

MJ is okay, but Indya Moore is much better. Dominique Jackson is, well, dreadful.

Dammit, I cry over just about every episode.

This is absolutely dreadful.

^Oh shut up.

All the pier scenes are shot in Red Hook, and I agree it’s distracting and weird.

[quote]Dammit, I cry over just about every episode.

I was sobbing during the flashback of young Blanca and her mother and then with Blanca and Damon in the kitchen.

MJ Rodriguez was excellent tonight.

My only real issue with this show is wouldn't one of them at least be hooked on drugs if they're capturing the late '80s scene in NYC?

And while I love the scenes between Pray Tell and Blanca, what happens when Pray Tell drags her during a ball? Have they addressed this?

gets worse every week, im givin up on it

WHO HIRED THESE BITCHES TO BE IN IT???? CANT ACT FUN AT ALL

Elektra gets the snip and discovers contractions immediately upon waking up. Modern medicine, y'all!

Please give Lil' Papi a proper plot already. I'm tired of stitching up these second-long cameos, however cute they may be.

Since they established that L'il Papi deals drugs a couple of episodes ago, I sense a tragic demise for this character before the season is over.

When Blanca swabbed that piece of furniture at the beginning of the episode and screamed "Papi!" I actually thought it was going to be coke, not dust.

I also expect the showrunners to kill him horribly by the end because he's such a ray of sunshine at all times and of course we can't have nice things. Whatever, just give him [italic]something[/italic] so I can gif the crap out of it.

I screamed when the episode ended. I want to see that conversation right the fuck now!

r426 That made me cry as well. It's exactly what my mother and I were doing together back in the day and it's so refreshing to see that on TV, instead of the umpteenth depiction of a father throwing a ball at his son.

I want to see a bonus episode that's just Lil' Papi's and Kate Mara's limo drive to the club.

"gets worse every week, im givin up on it."

Please, there's only three episodes left, and you're going to NOT tell us how much you hate the show? Sure, Jan.

I enjoyed this week with the motherhood theme. Patty at the ball, lol, the look on her face - "what the fuck IS this?

As an old white dude I have an interest in the world, and it's a strong cast.

However.

The script gets AWFULLY explainy. "Girl, sit down and let me tell you what the ballroom scene in 1987 New York is.....yadda yadda yadda yadda."

I'm guessing thsi audience has some background in this world. Show me, don't explain it to me.

Gay history rewritten as trans reality, Fuck Ryan Murphy. And fuck the actors are shitty

But enough about your phobias, R437.

I love the show but it is so sanitized. At least Elektra remains a bitch even when showing some vulnerability.

You know if this was real life, these bitches would eat you alive.

[quote]And Billy Porter is fabulous. I second [R405] re: Pray Tell's post-results scene.

I agree and could easily see him getting an Emmy nomination (and possibly the win) for that scene in the doctor's office alone.

By the way, every time I see MJ Rodriguez, I always think of Cher. Don't know why but they just look similar to me.

Elektra Abundance : What the FUCK are you doing here?

That line cracked me up last night.

r441 And in front of the nurse as well, which made me cringe hard. She's pretty classless for someone who speaks in such a mannered way.

It’s only eight episodes, so there’s only two left R434.

Only eight episodes?! This better get a second season because there's no way I can only have eight episodes of this show in my life.

I agree R444. Took me until the second episode to like it, and by this last week I'm hooked. Sadly I don't think it will be back for another season.

What a long bummer of an episode. And the only interesting storyline with Patty gets shoved to next week.

I also don’t see what you all do with Lil Papi. He’s a useless character.

Will there be a second season? Or is this a one and done type deal?

Lil' Papi isn't useless, he's just been used as a writing device up to this point to move other characters' plots along, which I hate. I mean, I know he should take the back seat in this show because he's a straight guy, but he's just so damn adorable and goofy, I want to see more of him.

Why the hell did we need ten episodes of that Versace crap but we only get eight episodes of this?! It was probably made for pennies so couldn't they just give us another season even with the low ratings?

FX hasn't said whether they will renew it r447, the ratings are not good though.

With Ryan Murphy moving to Netflix, I expect Pose is dead after this season. He'll probably drop out of American Horror Story as well soon.

But Murphy isn't involved with Pose right now, anyway. It has two other showrunners.

The only reason FX agreed to do Pose is because of Ryan, R451. Let's not pretend that they'd have done this show otherwise.

I know that, but now it has his name attached anyway so who cares if he hasn't been involved with the creative process much in this season and going forward? It's a Ryan Murphy show in people's minds.

Lovely video review of the first five episodes with Jason Carter and Alonso Duralde (TheWrap). You may recognize Jason from RuPaul's Drag Race, although he's wearing clothes here.

Pose scored a 0.25 adults 18-49 rating for the July 1 episode, down from the prior week's 0.29, but higher than the first three weeks of the series (0.24, 0.19, 0.21).

r454 "My favourite Ryan Murphy shows are the ones he entrusts to other people..."

Yeah, you can say that again.

r454 "I love this show and not just because I'm LGBTQ+..."

Oh, Jason. How can anyone say that with a straight face? Aren't most people pretty much settled on just one of the letters once they hit 40?

This show is FANTASTIC but I truly am worried it's going to get axed because of the ratings. I sincerely hope not!!!

I want Ricky and Li'l Papi to have a spinoff where they do gay porn together.

Now that Ryan Murphy is moving over to Netflix (Netflix are paying Ryan hundreds of millions of dollars to develop shows exclusively for Netflix)...who knows, maybe Netflix will snap up Pose.

I just don't see Ryan Murphy letting this show disappear (he has previously said Pose is the show he's most proud of creating). I feel if FX give it the axe, Ryan will try and make sure it lives on over at Netflix.

[quote]You may recognize Jason from RuPaul's Drag Race, although he's wearing clothes here.

You mean he's usually naked?

I think they shot in Red Hook because the piers on the West Side would’ve been impossible to schedule without background noise and a gay audience interrupting constantly. Also, the bannisters and background give away the newness, not the old 80’s run down look they needed. Some of the pier footage also looked like Roosevelt Island.

Lil’ Papi needs to get naked. He’s adorable.

You know somebody is gonna die from the AIDS in the finale. Who? My money is on Ricky.

Ricky said he was HIV- . Ep 3?

[quote]You know somebody is gonna die from the AIDS in the finale. Who?

Let it be either Damon's father or Blanca's brother.

To be honest, I was a little surprised that none of the younger guys contracted HIV, although if I recall correctly, we didn't see the nurse reveal the results to Papi? He just said he was negative.

I really think Angel and Papi are doomed.

But I wonder how they will wrap up this season - as a season or series finale?

R467 I must have been in the can some time now. Doubt they would reshoot a series finale.

I watched Paris is Burning tonight — Ryan Murphy stole so much from it! Even the bit about Stan’s wife wanting a dishwahser and having to sleep with him for it!

God, this latest episode was excruciating. It was like watching "a very special episode" of a bad 1990s ABC dramedy.

When this show's over, I hope Electra takes whatever she earned from this show and invests it in drama school if she hopes to ever work again.

This show is my guilty pleasure. On its surface, it’s awful— the acting, the plot, all laughable. But it’s so much fun!!

Male black dancers are a rarity so every dance school, and particular one with a black dancer focus, would have snapped him up no matter how well he danced

Heck, the Debbie Allen School of Dance would have given him a full scholarship.

I don’t get the whole tranny-chaser phenomenon. Are they gay? Bi? Straight?

I’m so confused

R473 They're sexually fluid, Rose.

It’s shocking just how old Meloni has gotten. That means I’ve gotten old too!!

Meloni looks like a creepy old man to me now. Sad. R469 EXACTLY and thats why im gonna check the bitch at R396. If it weren't for that "ancient" documentary this show wouldn't exist at all. Show some RESPECT. I've said on this thread before like everyone else about how the acting is awful, modern dialogue and setting. Its like a lifetime movie, etc. The past two episodes before this last ep were really bad to me. Corny and just dragging on slowly. BUT i really liked this last one. I loved the flashback to the 1982 ball. MJ Rodriguez was so cute and funny. the MC was hilarious. I really loved the challenge between Abundance and the other house later on. Miss Candy and LuLu were FIERCE. They also played the "iconic" Sylvester song. No gay movie/show is complete without it. Haha. BLANCA,MISS CANDY, and LULU are my favorites. Damon can drop dead. Count me in as another who does not see what yall see in Lil Papi. I forget he's there.

The actress who plays Angel just tweeted that "season 2 is going to be spectacular"...

Guess she already knows the show is returning to FX for another season (though i'm assuming she wasn't supposed to let it out of the bag just yet).

It's really not all that shocking. Legion is another big FX drama that's coming back for another season, and it's ratings are MUCH worse than Pose.

They in it to win it

Why do some of you bitches need to love every episode of a series? Most series SUCK so I am happy I manage to find a few that have a couple of good episodes a season.

This show is great; it makes me cry every week. The people in here complaining about the performances are out of their minds. The cast is amazing.

Ryan Murphy’s best show ever, by far.

Pray Tell's apartment in Episode 5 is fabulously art directed and shot. Lost Splendor!

R480 We're so glad you could check in and join us in the conversation, Dominique!

Interesting edit. Stan comes out of the conference room and he's been made VP. Bromley is seething. Stan tells a bunch of slimy transparent lies to hide that he is a barracuda and Bromley is not having it. He says you showed me exactly who you are and now I'm going to show you who I am. Then the montage of Dominique in the hospital for the chop, and Pry Tell MC'ing, Categor is Perfect Realness (passing as a woman). And the soundtrack is:

Indya Moore comes across as a bit unstable on her Twitter. She sounds exhausting and is definitely trying to gain some publicity with the ScarJo controversy.

[quote]Stan comes out of the conference room and he's been made VP. Bromley is seething. Stan tells a bunch of slimy transparent lies to hide that he is a barracuda and Bromley is not having it. He says you showed me exactly who you are and now I'm going to show you who I am.

Stan didn't tell lies. Bromley was late for the meeting and didn't care until he heard that Trump was there. Bromley learned that Stan got promoted and felt some type of way about it.

I can’t concentrate once Vanderbeek’s large forehead is on the screen. Does he have encephalitis?? His head is fucking HUGE!

[quote]Ryan Murphy’s best show ever, by far.

Shut your dirty whore mouth!

I would call it Ryan Murphy's most groundbreaking show ever. But "best?"

R486 it is extremely distracting. When he first started out his face wasn't so gaunt so it wasn't as noticable. It's YUUUUGE!

R486 I especially noticed it during his scene in the office with Evan Peters.

"The category is...incredibly distorted heads!"

I love it because it’s so over the top in every way, but I won’t watch it more than one season

I agree about Vanderbeek's forehead. It's more distracting than Jamaal Swain's bad acting.

I love the Elektra/Blanca relationship. It is layered and they have amazing chemistry. I am invested in their characters and their interplay is awesome. Also - I hate to quibble but Elektra mentioned watching As the World Turns when Blanca visited her in the hospital. The most popular soaps in 1987 for women of color were All My Children and Y&R. I don’t buy her watching that white grandma soap.

[quote]By the way, every time I see MJ Rodriguez, I always think of Cher.

Yup, I see that, too. I also see a resemblance to Good Morning America's Robin Roberts.

I love this show more with each passing episode.

Also, I love you R487.

Was that Jiggly Caliente in the clothing store scene? She didn’t have any lines.

Is Jiggly trans? Because trans don’t like drag queens, right?

Yes Jiggly is trans now. She did a commercial on LOGO about it.

The two of them singing Home is making me bawl like a damn baby.

Tonight's episode is really strong. Janet Mock directed it.

Courtney said that James’s head is “bigger than a breadbox”

R497 agreed. Highlight of the series so far.

And didn't Blanca sound a bit like Michael Jackson?

^Yes she sure did.

Does James have BDF?

MJ has a great voice.

I had no idea MJ could sing like that. She really is very talented.

Dare I say it - the reason why this episode was so good was because both Damon and Elektra were barely in it. As much as I love Elektra and her comebacks, Dominique is just not a very good actress. Billy Porter and MJ Rodriguez are the heart of the show.

(And Ricky is hot as fuck - damn).

Was Another World a white grandma show? I used to watch it with mine but she's not white.

Tonight was by far the best episode. This is Billy Porter's Emmy reel. Costas' speech to Pray Tell to continue living his life was poignant; sad, but uplifting. The "we all fucked him" Darius mini arc was pretty funny; I think Blanca still should have fucked him lol. Patty was incredibly restrained with both Angel and Stan. Was glad to see Sandra Bernhard. She was fine, but she just doesn't have her past "zing" - she's semi sleepwalking through her lines.

And the singing at the hospital was fantastic.

r506 I am still low-key rooting for Blanca to fuck Darius.

Everyone can hate on Ryan Murphy (and certainly on DL they do), but when he writes the eps you viscerally feel it. It's so obvious. This was masterfully constructed and beautifully done by all. Frankly, this could have been an HBO movie as is and critics would plotz. It was incredible. I am not a big fan of the series (esp some of the casting), but when Murphy pens the eps you feel a different and more expansive energy that really enlivens the entire enterprise. It's bigger than it is... and this was superlative.

Damn, those hospital scenes [italic]destroy[/italic] me until I'm a sobbing mess. I know some critics complained about tonal shifts, but juxtaposing all that misery with the joyousness of the balls is... well, life.

The diner scene with Angel and Kate Mara was amazing. Indiya Moore can ACT.

When trouble with the capital T has his sights set on you but the straight friend got your back.

Lil' Papi [italic]finally[/italic] gets his moment in the spotlight! Imagine being a straight boy in your first gay ballroom outing and you win the Grand Prize.

Love how the category was just "realness" at first and then he clarified it means ghetto realness. Doesn't get much realer than that, does it?

Candi is a total caricature but she's definitely my fave.

Look at that entrance. Like. A. Boss.

He's such trash, in the best way possible.

Those tacky trophies crack me up.

r515 And they're giving out so many. I mean, I know they're cheap, but they still have to cost something to make. And they look heavier than just tin foil wrapped around construction paper, so they can't be [italic]that[/italic] cheap.

Seeing Elektra wheel that tacky trophy home in a little sled or a stroller or whatever the hell that's called cracks me up as well every time.

I finally watched the documentary "Paris is Burning" last night to get a better idea of the context of "Pose."

"Pose" certainly glamorizes those ball venues. Most were actually held in places like Elk's Lodges, with tacky folding chairs and cafeteria tables covered in Pepsi 1-liter bottles and bags of Cheetos. Nary a disco ball or red velvet curtain in sight.

Re: Paris is Burning. Elektra has the same over enunciation that Venus has in PIB which is also the same enunciation that the legendary Crystal had in that other "ancient" documentary The Queen. On Drag Race two seasons ago Aja did Crystal as a Snatch Game contestant. Paris is Burning was definitely the template for Pose although the reality of the balls was far more gritty than Pose presents.

If Billy Porter doesn't win an award for that ep, the voters have hearts made of shriveled black tar.

I read somewhere they aren't eligible for Emmys anymore. But Amy Adams is doing her show at the same time and she definitely wouldn't have done that if an Emmy wasn't in play. No way is she going to be content with a Golden Globe only.

Can they compete next year?

Yep, R520, "Pose" and its cast will be eligible for the 2019 Emmys.

Its June 3rd premiere means the show (and cast) unfortunately jusssssst missed the eligibility window (which was June 1, 2017 to May 31, 2018) for this year's awards.

The Ballroom stuff should be a lot grittier. It would illustrate the “need” these kids have to gather and perform and show their ingenuity and creativity.

On the show, it seems like these balls are well-organized and well-funded affairs. It makes the competitions less important when we don’t get to see any blood, sweat, or tears.

Tuned out after the first episode, was really turned off with the stealing,

MARY!

Whatever, r523.

R521 the show will be forgotten by 2019

R523 you must HATE Murder, She Wrote. There's a killing in EVERY episode!

Well yes, of course it's going to be forgotten by then. That's exactly the reason that started this whole Emmy side discussion...

Anyway, just two more episodes. Loving the way Kate Mara took control of her life. That's some responsible shit right there.

OMG stealing, really? Trannies are notorious for stealing (at least back then they were). As were all marginalized groups. Stealing was for fun and necessity it wasn't necessarily for drugs or profit like it is now.

R523 - hahaha

Mother Abundance reminds me of Tim Curry’s Frank N Furter. That actress needs to dial it Way down.

Billy Porter was acting the house down. The best acting I have ever seen from him. He looked old. That dinner scene made me sad. He was being so mean to the children and never apologized. Too much singing. Did anyone see the trans boy Laith? Ugh. I hate it. Is Damon the one who dies next week? Heads need to start rolling. He only had one line thank God. I totally forgot about Elektra. Still love Blanca. His acting is so good! So cute. Blanca, Candy, lulu, Angel, and Pray Tell all the way. The rest can drop dead. They better get moving. Show is already really shaky. Trannys and hookers were getting murdered left and right back then. My aunt worked in booking on the lower east side. Told me all about it. She became friends with some, always in and out, and when they would turn up murdered she would cry her eyes out.

MJ Rodriguez needs to be Angel in RENT LIVE.

r532- You should try to record your Aunt's stories, I'm sure they're fascinating. It probably would make a great screenplay, but then I'm sure all the SWJs would scream how inaccurate or damaging it was.

[quote]Did anyone see the trans boy Laith? Ugh. I hate it.

You hate what, exactly? That he booked an acting gig or that he exists? Wouldn't even put it past you that you hate him because he's Dominican. Because you sound like just the type to mask your racism with transphobia.

He literally looks like a piece of art so I'm sure he'll be fine even with your bitter self stewing in your hatred. Which is definitely not a good look for any old homosexual, if no one's told you that before.

^^^ewww. Im young and puetro rican. I dont care what she is. Her eyes are also fake.

I see the anti-trans bigots have invaded the thread. They can’t ever let us have any peace.

I can see that Laith is sweet natured but his looks do creep me out. I found it tragic to see him in the pit crew on RPDR.

Angel breaks my heart in every fucking episode. Just give Billy Porter the Emmy now cuz this is the best acting you'll see on tv for the next year. I hope this opens many, many doors for him. I really hope we get a second season.

I sobbed like a baby last night. Billy Porter just flat out slayed it last night.

Has RuPaul guest starred to tell her Diana Ross story where she calls Concorde "THE Concorde" three times?

[quote]I am still low-key rooting for Blanca to fuck Darius.

I'm rooting that Darius fucks me.

I'm confused about their naming conventions -- do they actually use their "house" surnames as their real names in other situations? Did Blanca have to change her surname when she started her own house?

As complicated as the Roman Curia

This latest episode was difficult to watch. Probably one of the best of the season so far (save for the over the top duet at the hospital - groan).

The actor who plays Ricky was apparently in the horrible "Peter Pan Live" with Alison Williams.

Ricky is hot. But would he really have won that competition? he has a nice body but the other guy was built.

That diner scene between Patty and Angel was amazing.

I've caught up now on all the episodes and I'm really liking it.

Isn't Electra supposed to be over-the-top and bitchy at all times? I really like her. She's fabulous.

So all these ladies are post-surgery transsexuals in real life?? Blanca, Electra, Angel, Candi?

I wonder if the Angel character was inspired by Venus Xtravaganza in 'Paris is Burning'? I hope she doesn't meet a tragic end like Venus, but that might be a more realistic story arc.

Johnny Sibilly's character has died, but the actor's hotness lives on!

R549 I was wondering the same thing.

I know that was MJ Rodriguez's (Blanca) real voice singing, but did anyone else notice how much deeper and masculine it was than her speaking voice? Does she use an affection to her speaking voice to sound more feminine?

Loved the singing, but it just didn't look right.

Yah, she singa likea man

R552 Yes; it was weird and jarring and it took you right out of the Blanca character completely.

Why does Ryan Murphy insist on having a "Glee" moment in every show he produces, fer Christ's sake?

That whole scene made no sense. First of all, Pray Tell is bitching to Sandra Bernhard about how depressing the hospital is, so she tells him to do something aout it. Then Pray says he's gonna put on a cabaret show and decorate the ward (which he didn't), and to "cheer up" the AIDS patients, he sings two maudlin and depressing songs. Way to cheer 'em up, Pray!

And why is his name Pray Tell?

Cultural appropriation pure and simple.

Agree this episode was pretty great. It hits moments of authenticity most big shows don’t even come close too. The first scene between Kate Mara and Indiya was amazing, hospital cabaret could have been totally maudlin but was wonderful, and the play between Darius and MJ was terrific. The show just keeps getting stronger. If FX doesn’t pick this up, Netflix had better take it.

I don’t recall any “Glee moments” in any season of American Horror Story or The New Normal or The People Vs OJ or The Assassination of Gianni Versace.

But other than those shows, Ryan Murphy insists on having a Glee moment in every show he produces.

He sure loves does love that song HOME from "the wiz". The singing moment was extra corny.

Then you haven't watched much American Horror Story, because "Coven" was one big Glee episode, as was "Freak Show." Even "Asylum" had its Glee moment with the "Name Game" number.

The New Normal had a few Glee moments, most memorably was the grade school talent show where the little girl performed as Cher.

Even Versace had its Glee moment with Amy Mann singing in the bar.

So, um, yeah, Ryan Murphy has a lot of Glee moments in his shows.

R558 AHS - The Coven "Glee" moment:

R558 One of many "Glee" moments from Freak Show:

R558 "The Name Game" - "Glee" moment from Asylum:

R560 He likes to use music in his shows like many do. He just does things more theatrically.

Exactly R4.

[quote]I know that was MJ Rodriguez's (Blanca) real voice singing, but did anyone else notice how much deeper and masculine it was than her speaking voice?

Yup! It was the first time I saw that actress/character as *not* being a woman.

Add me to the list of posters who was a sobbing mess at various points during this episode. Billy Porter is killing it.

And I love the little spark of perpetual joy that is Lil Papi.

Still not feeling the Lil Papa love. But at least he's not as awful as Damon.

I had a delightful dream wherein Lil Papi was making sweet love to me.

House of Evangelista evicted next week!

R567 same

Did you know that Pepper is still in the bathroom with Mark Consuelos?

R564 Yes. They're called "Glee" moments.

R567 I have a bad feeling about L'il Papi. When they first showed him dealing drugs, I thought, "Oh, they're gonna kill him off."

R547 Another dumb moment from the show. No way would he have won the body competition against the other guy.

Who knew Blanca had such a great male voice and could harmonize with such ease?

Why is she doing nails instead of cabaret?

Because she sounds like a man when she sings.

Does it bother anyone else that Blanca is supposedly supporting her "house" and her hooligan "children" from being a manicurist?

R577 Um, yeah.

[quote]I have a bad feeling about L'il Papi. When they first showed him dealing drugs, I thought, "Oh, they're gonna kill him off."

Could be, though I feel like quite a few of the characters could die one way or another – AIDS, drugs, complications from back-alley plastic surgery, violent trick, etc. Sadly, I think tragedies will outnumber triumphs for many of these characters.

[quote]Does it bother anyone else that Blanca is supposedly supporting her "house" and her hooligan "children" from being a manicurist?

To be fair, they're not exactly living in luxury and dining on lavish meals. It's a pretty squalid place, and some of the children (Ricky, Angel, presumably Lil Papi) are also contributing to the household from whatever they earn.

"Does it bother anyone else that Blanca is supposedly supporting her "house" and her hooligan "children" from being a manicurist?"

Why would it bother me? It's a fictional show. Just assume the money from her job and Papi's drug money and whatever else anyone is bringing in is enough to pay the rent at their crappy apartment.

Shout out for casting Sandra Bernhard as the tough nurse. Great casting. This show is perfection.

R581 yes but do you think she cringed when they mentioned Madonna's name in the singing scene?

R582 That was probably her idea.

Who knew Janet Mock had such chops as a writer/director? Hers is a harrowing story. She named herself after Janet Jackson, whose Velvet Rope album helped Mock through depression in her formatives years. I’m really excited for next season and to see what else Murphy and Mock come up with. And Blanca is currently my favorite character on TV.

[quote]Does it bother anyone else that Blanca is supposedly supporting her "house" and her hooligan "children" from being a manicurist?

Angel throws in her earnings from the adult peeky palace.

Indya Moore (Angel) is the best actress of the bunch. You feel her character's hurt and cynicism in her words and you see it in her face.

MJ Rodriguez (Blanca) is okay. You can tell the series is shot out of sequence, because in some scenes, she's really strong, and then 10 minutes later, she appears very stilted. To be fair, the part of Blanca is very demanding, and its a huge undertaking for a fairly inexperienced film performer.

Dominique Jackson (Elektra) is awful. She certainly looks the part, but she just doesn't cut it as an actress. I'm already cringing thinking about her pairing up with Christopher Meloni again next week. Next to him, she looks even worse than usual.

Among the guys, Evan Peters always delivers. He knocks every part that Ryan Murphy throws him out of the park.

James Van der Beek is appropriately menacing and has definitely developed as an actor over the years.

Ryan Jamaal Swain - just no.

Billy Porter is amazing. Just looking at him, you feel Pray Tell's pain.

I predict Emmy nominations for Billy and Indya. They may slip one in for MJ, too, just because she tries so hard.

Am I invisible, R586?

R587 Yes, Kate. You and your sister's mousy faces bother me.

I'm glad Kate Mara at least had that fabulous scene in the diner because, up until then, she was stuck with a nothing role and was pretty one note.

This last episode was great because of the lack of Damon. They really should drop his character because he adds nothing to the show. At least Elektra is entertaining. I find Damon is like a Mary Sue. The actor who plays Ricky doesn't get much to do but he's a decent enough actor that he can suggest back story to his character. You just know he has got some skeletons.

But r586 is pretty much spot-on. I really like MJ Rodriguez. She has great presence and her scenes with Billy Porter are wonderful. I do think, though, that Porter really makes Rodriguez much stronger when they are in scenes together. They have terrific chemistry. It really feels like they've been longtime friends.

[quote]she was stuck with a nothing role and was pretty one note.

I find Mara in that role the show's only casting misstep. Mara *is* pretty one-note, IMO, and both she and her character come off as wooden and cold.

As a result, I don't buy that Stan would be all that torn between his wife and Angel. Mara and Peters also have zero chemistry, IMO. By contrast...

[quote]Porter really makes Rodriguez much stronger when they are in scenes together. They have terrific chemistry. It really feels like they've been longtime friends.

Totally agree. They're the heart and soul of this show, and I love their scenes together.

And, oops!, apologies to R567 for misidentifying myself in my post at R579 -- I'm meant to write R566 in the "posted by" field.

*I meant to write...

Sheesh. Time to call it a day!

"LOVE IS THE MESSAGE" was played in "Paris Is Burning".

Love is the Message played nonstop in balls and in East Village gay dives throughout the 80's.

But isn't Mara's character supposed to be stiff and wooden? I mean she's a housewife in the 80's, for gods sake,

Wasn't a mousy, 80's woman supposed to find a husband and raise the kids? Housewives, by definition are just that, in the house taking care of everyone.

I think her character is going to wake up and start looking for something else as well. Maybe a job and other activities to help expand her world.

[quote]Maybe a job and other activities to help expand her world.

I'm kind of hoping she expands her world by packing her bags and heading right off the show. I don't feel like she really adds anything to the narrative.

And I will cringe if, at any point, she gets a makeover from any of the women of the houses.

LINK to Thread 2

STRIKE A POSE

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED

Link to Thread Two