Hart Family Crash - Pt 6 - Pedal to the Metal cont.

There doesn't need to be a part 6 to this thread. It's the same three people from the alt-right troll farm that keep feeding it. Take it to a blog.

Nacho, is that you?

These poor kids. While their adoption was pending, another young child in the house, Hannah, was sent to school with a bruise from being hit with a belt. MN was responsible with monitoring the visit and reporting to TX. The private adoption agency in TX has since been closed. Jenn and Sarah pulled out the classic abuser line that Hannah had fallen down the stairs but she told her teacher about the belt. The investigation was closed, although Sarah would be convicted of child abuse within 2 years in MN, leading to all the kids being pulled out of school, permanently.

Sarah was not wearing her wedding ring in later pictures. Wonder if she was involved with the woman who called 911 after getting the middle of the night text from her?

Jenn claimed to feel closer to Devonte than to anyone in her life, ever. Was his betrayal by going to the DeKalbs what made her snap? Odd thing for a married lesbian to claim...as is her obsession with football players, Max and Nacho.

Devonte and Nacho?

Thread #6 is off to a rousing start with 4 of 5 posts by the same oh-so-earnest florid fraubeast who produced 70% of the content in all of the previous threads it started on this subject.

“I don’t know what Websleths is,” my black ass.

I have been on DL since the early days. Why the aggressive attempts to deter talk of the murder/suicide of the Harts here? DL tends not to be as gullible as hippies, sorry. Take your #protect the community BS elsewhere.

I read where Jen's birthday was June 4th. All Gemini's are liars, so it doesn't surprise me.

I hadn't heard about Jen cutting the nipples off the mannequin. That is really bizarre. What a stupid post above that all Geminis are liars.

Sarah couldn't go on the trips because she was working!

I wonder if the Hart kids wrote journals like the Turpin kids. I think Markis was really disabled and could not be on his own. I think Devonte & Hannah had the ability to escape but worried about leaving their siblings behind.

Max and Kristina have been among the primary spokespeople for the #protect the community crowd.

How does interpretive dance and playing the horn lead to them paying their bills? Do they both have trust funds?

Trust funds or selling trinkets or herb.

Markis does not seem to have been severely disabled while attending school in MN though?

Gotta say that having a combo daycare/pot shop is a really dumb idea.

They all seem like grifters and Jenn seems very unbalanced.

R12 Who is "she" in that paragraph? Is it Jen bragging about the kids? It could mean that Markis liked a particular picture book about geography.

Whoever mentioned about the cremation --- autopsies were done on the bodies before cremation. It's how they knew about the Benadryl and Jen being drunk.

Have they found the three missing kids yet?

R16

Devonte and Hannah are the only missing kids now. Sierra was confirmed as being the body that washed up miles south of the crash and pulled out of the surf by some brave guy about a week ago.

The author of the Oregon Live piece was recounting some of the posts Jenn made bragging about the kids while they were still in school. Nothing the MN schools said or what was written suggests that any of the kids were in special ed classes. It talks about Devonte and something classmates wrote, so I am assuming Markis did well in a geography bee in a MN public school at some point and the others were doing ok in school too. She trotted out all sorts of other details about the kids and their personal business so I would think she would have mentioned special ed? I think the kids could have done fine if not beaten, starved and isolated.

There are only 2 missing now, one of the missing girls washed up. The FBI has missing posters for Devonte and Hannah.

Jenn seems to have planned for them to never leave her, perhaps this was always her end game? Were the Terpin parents also completely isolated from other adults? I think I read that they cut extended family off from the kids too? So tragic, at least those kids got to live.

r17 thnx

Wait, mentally ill lesbians? Unheard of!

Jenn was never good with teens, never mind a houseful and had been moody for decades, according to the former foster kid.

Their finances seem really suspect. If the kids left there goes the income that pays the mortgage. If the kids could be framed as disabled, and perhaps in fact made to be disabled by abuse, starvation, and lack of education, then the TX $ might be replaced with disability $? Still not sure how they were able to buy the house and the cars were pretty old.

R18

The Turpin parents went out every day and took the baby to Taco Bell. They bought food for themselves but not the kids left at home.

They had a bit of contact w. the mother's sisters, I believe. The dad had just gotten a new job out of state and they told their neighbors that they were going to leave soon.

I still don't get Jordan (the 17 yr old) being able to have singing videos on youtube. Did the mom know about these? Probably not.

R9, my post isnt stupid, you obviously haven't been on dl very long, it was sarcastic, now go back to websleuths or ivillage or wherever you came from.

The parallels are eerie. That story coming out may have further unhinged Jenn. Thanks, R22.

Oy, six threads of conspiracies is too much. Muriel, please close this beast.

I’ve followed all 5 previous threads, and I’ll follow this one too. These kids deserve better than to have their story dismissed or ignored. I’m sure that there are many kids out there in a similarly abusive situations who could benefit from people knowing what signs to look for and what the best course of action for reporting allegations of abuse are. Plus I strongly feel that these hippie, festival goer, “love everyone”, child abuser apologists should continue to be discussed and scrutinized. They deserve every bit of scorn that they are receiving for speaking out positively about these evil, murdering cunts. I’m glad to have somewhere to come read updates on this case, cause it seems that most media has already abandoned the story. If you don’t want to read any more about it, how about you don’t click the link? 🤔

Jenn was very large in her own mind. This photo is just odd.

Someone on another thread likely called it right - the long trips with no destination, other people, visits to other people, etc. suggest mania. She definitely wanted validation and attention from men, whether football players or hippy singers. Maybe she saw Sarah as a mark she could control? Had they stopped beating the children and starving them, they could have put them in public school. No matter where they moved, neighbors and even hippies reported them for abuse, it had to have been bad. Jenn seems to have had no motivation to work to alleviate the financial pressure, just hoovering up tax $.

I do not know where the gas $ came from, that thing is huge. Having owned older vehicles, they are expensive to maintain, I avoided long trips.

Jenn and Sarah were not restricting their own food intake, it is clear.

R23 I've been at DL since it started. You must be a Virgo.

The Turpin parents and kids were more isolated

These kids went to all the music shows, went outside on trips and the political things.

I don't think either family socialized much. The Turpins had no friends. These two had a little bit with the music crowd but it seems like they were more isolated in the last year.

People are calling this kid and that kid disabled but there is no proof anywhere. People are just making up stuff. We hardly know anything about them except for a few articles.

R27

Jen put on a lot of weight since the photo of her on top of the SUV. Bi-polar trying to self-medicate with booze?

This is fascinating and chilling, it goes into why people see or do not see abuse hidden in plain sight. One of the T kids went to community college. Poor Markis should have had that opportunity.

Canes?

Have not seen them yet, R34, perhaps they were aging into them?

R23, you're a Gemini aren't you?

Just found this video. What if this were really true?

Has anyone checked the water tanks at the Cecil Hotel?

Even without the CPS investigation as the immediate trigger, none of it was sustainable, financially or otherwise.

I think Jen was falling apart for the past couple of years. She could create and control a fantasy life on FB and her gaming group.

R39, exactly.

In order to get the money for “disabled” adult children, they’d have to produce the person for assessment and produce medical records.

I think some of Jenn's problem was that kids are like puppies, cute when they are little. She probably couldn't handle them growing up and was panicking about when they would grow up and try to leave.

I wonder if Jen felt the kids should be more grateful since in her mind she saved them

I am sure she did feel that way, R43.

So when they laughed too loud, it was nose to the wall and no food for you! They should only laugh at HER jokes.

Jenn was nuts, as exemplified by the lack of maintained relationships, inability to hold a job, frequent lies, need to control others to tame the chaos inside, etc. She should never have had power over other humans.

Seems like there is a backstory re the text message. When she says no one saw Sarah or Jenn, it seemed no one saw Jenn, so was it an emergency pre-arranged code from Sarah? Seems like there is a backstory here. Did Cheryl Hart work at or shop at Kohls? How did she know Sarah?

Was it 3am on the 24th, around the time that they were leaving the house in WA, or 3am on the 25th when they would have been in CA? When she says that we are concerned wonder who that was? Did Sarah have an emergency alert set with a friend? Cannot come out - wonder what that was about?

The DeKalbs said they left in the night and the friend got the text at 3am Sat, perhaps as they were leaving. She said the phone was dead after that. Sounds like an SOS from Sarah?

Sarah was witnessed being cruel to the kids but maybe she was under the control of Jenn too? Still, she had a job, income and was alone for months at a time, seems she could have left or raised the alarm re: the kids? TX had the payments going to Jenn so she seems to have been the original adopter (she liked control). Do we know if Sarah had any legal relationship to the kids?

There is a Cheryl Hart in Vancouver who used to live in Portland. Maybe she had known Sarah for a while. I had thought it was just kind of a call out text but am wondering if Sarah was trying to get help.

R47, to answer one of your questions: the neighbor was commenting on a FB page about the case and said that Devonte told them that BOTH women abused them. The reason Hannah ran away that night was because Jen was abusing her. But also that “Sarah used to not accept it but was now tolerating it”.

Thanks, R48.

If Sarah had no legal rights to the kids, that gives Jenn a lot of power to make threats, but Jenn had no means of earning income, which gave Sarah power too. Sarah pleading guilty to the abuse of Abigail, likely committed by Jenn, would mean that she would be unlikely to be granted custody, esp if she was not a legal parent to the kids, from a legal standpoint her hands may have been somewhat tied. No one had any good options, because all on some level thought Jenn was capable of anything. The neighbor said that he was not surprised by the outcome. Group homes are no panecea. It is a shame that the 3 kids were not placed with the aunt. It sounded like they were doing ok in public school despite the immediate abuse by Jenn.

There are photos where Sarah has bruises, in one, she is wearing a short pleated skirt and has a large bruise on her thigh. Was she abused by Jenn too?

If Sarah was conditioned to act like a victim, it does not change her responsibility for protecting the kids but would cast a particular light on the text and on the word choices of the 911 call.

Some families celebrate both their adoption day and the date of the second parent adoption. There was evidence of the first on social media, anyone see the second? How was 20 something Jenn, without much of an income, able to adopt 6 kids from TX?

They were living in MN, after the conviction of child abuse, I am not sure that Sarah tried to adopt them via a second parent adoption, or if that would have been approved. They would need a home study and a court proceeding and there has been no mention of that by anyone. I think the kids may have been under the sole legal control of Jenn. Maybe Sarah thought staying helped mitigate some of the harm? She clearly had actual relationships with adults outside the home, unlike Jenn, thus the 911 call.

Jenn strikes me as someone put off men by sexual abuse or assault but who still is primarily focused on attention from males - Nacho, Max, feeling closer to Devonte than anyone else in her life ever, etc, being angry about the football signing, etc. The women do not seem to have ever been part of any lesbian communities, just the hippies, periodically. The CPS report in OR seems to have triggered even more extreme isolation and danger for the kids. If OR had gotten weights and heights, no statements by the kids may have been necessary to corroborate the report.

Found this on line:

In 2013, after Minnesota began recognizing same-sex marriage, a new avenue for adoption was established for same-sex couples: step-parent adoptions. This method, prior to the state’s recognition of same-sex marriage, was exclusively available to married couples of different genders.

Before Minnesota recognized same-sex marriage the only option available to same-sex couples was second-parent adoptions. In a second-parent adoption, a party unrelated by marriage establishes parental rights to a minor child. To complete a second-parent adoption successfully in Minnesota, the party must get permission from the court to file the adoption petition.

[quote] The women do not seem to have ever been part of any lesbian communities, just the hippies, periodically.

Not every gay or lesbian person is involved in gay or lesbian" communities," whether it be due to personality/personal choice, or whatever. Especially those from small towns or conservative areas who may feel no connection to it as these places are usually lacking or if in existence dominated by a few local personalities. Further, this is not the 1970s or 80s, and lesbian groups barely exist anymore.

Someone mentioned a story about Jen being raped. Can that poster provide a link?

True, but many become involved in gay parenting groups and playgroups when the kids are young, so they can see families that look like theirs. There are even gay dad and lesbian mom groups online. Same for families of adopted kids. Instead of creating community with people who shared common challenges, they saw the hippies a few times a year and then even that seemed to taper off after the OR CPS report. They would have been able to travel to such groups in MN and certainly they exist in Portland.

No baseball teams, following of lesbian performers, LGBT group at work, gay or lesbian friends coming forward whether parents or not, it just seems unusual. Most stay at home parents have a support network of other stay at home dad and mom friends. Jenn seemed to use the foster kid and the adopted kids to fill in for the lack of family or peer relationships.

It seems very likely that the probation Sarah was under included parenting and anger management classes, so sad that instead of changing it led immediately to the kids being yanked from school and them fleeing the state as soon as it was allowed.

The story Jenn told on social media about being raped was that she was out jogging while in college and was assaulted by a stranger. It was never reported. Not sure where that was supposed to fit in the timeline of taking a hacksaw to the nipples on the mannequins in the department store where both women worked. There was a screenshot of someone talking about Jenn discussing the assault on Part 5 of this thread I think? I do wonder if there is any indication that Jenn identified as a lesbian at an earlier time, she seemed very focused on getting attention from men and to treat Sarah as kind of a meal ticket and SJW signifier. She was happy to take all 6 kids off for long periods of time by herself and says her strongest relationship in her life was with Devonte. It does make the Thing shirts look a little different if Jenn was 1 and Devonte 2. In the one pic of the house on the market, there was a single photo on the nightstand and it was a photo of Devonte. There is just kind of a roommate vibe with Sarah.

R53 I didn't see a screenshot of the rape discussion in the old thread.. but thank you nonetheless!

R54, this was copied from a FB post. Jenn had a page that was accessible for a while and it seemed many read it. Anyway, I think that is where the poster saw it, or maybe on another FB page?

Jen has told a story of being raped in college to her friends that makes very little sense because her story is that she was out jogging at night Lee and was accosted and raped by a stranger. As a rape crisis counselor, I can tell you that that scenario is very very rare and it’s the type of scenario that the police take very seriously so if it had been reported, we would know about it. And the thing is that it just doesn’t make sense that she wouldn’t report something like that I know that most people would report a stranger rape 1000 times more than people do acquaintance rape which makes up for the majority of reps. It sounds like she was a huge liar or delusional or both. But when you look back in hindsight most of her stories were very unbelievable. I am under the impression that Jen did not have much life experience and that she made up a lot of stuff from the perspective of someone who doesn’t have much understanding of how the world works. She seems like someone who was very sheltered all her life.

If they hadn't been a part of gay/lesbian groups, they would not necessarily join them later

The music new age crowd could have appealed more. Not that unusual for those who were outsiders, or who liked the other crowd better.

A lot of people do it so their kids know other families like theirs, but the Harts had to avoid any adults who were not gullible and most parents to boot.

Just wondering about Jenn and her lesbian identity.

R57, that’s a big piece of the puzzle to me, too. At its most basic essence, lesbianism is loving women. She didn’t seem too.

I think one of the big reasons they did not get involved is because they were loners. Folie a deux.

I think "lesbian identity" is different in rural areas. It still quite homophobic in smaller towns so it is all mixed up and there is a lot of people in the closet and people do not have a chance to socialize with others.

"Lesbian" has also been swallowed up by "LGBTQ++" which is not very lesbian, and these days is anti-lesbian

There are straight couples and families who do not really interact with others as well. No one really examines them.

Jenn was said by her dad to have played on boys sports teams. Wonder what kind of trouble she was getting into that led him to send her back to live with her mom?

One of Jenns brothers is gay, too.

No info on Sarah dating anyone in high school or college nor does she seem to have friends who are actively courting media attention at this time.

It is true that some families are extremely isolated, R59, as with the Turpins, it is usually a sign of extreme dysfunction and a cover for abuse.

I just looked on Websleuths and they thought something connected to the building was a possible punishment room....then someone had to point out it was a satellite dish...

Police report from MN

Being grounded sounds like taking the phone from a teen and making him/her cancel plans - these kids were very young and restricted to the house anyway. In Jenn world, being grounded meant staying in bed and missing meals.

These houses were not big for 8 people, 7 of whom did not go outside.

All of the court docs re Abigail, 6, turning up at school black and blue, are online

Sometimes CPS works really well, and sometimes it's a total disaster, same with social workers. I was made a permanent ward when I was 7 and basically grew up in the foster system. At 9 I had a great worker who sent me to a really good foster family who kept me till I was 15. They had two adult children and another foster son who was a few years older than myself and they treated me like i was part of the family. I had chores, went to school, had after school activities and got to be a normal kid for a few years.

I was removed from that family because my foster dad developed a brain tumor and my new worker wouldn't let me stay with the only family I had known for six years even though it was the only stable, normal environment I had ever experienced. My foster mom fought to keep me but CPS shut down her home and took away my foster parents credentials claiming that the medical condition of my foster father was too serious, and I was sent to a group home which I promptly ran away from. After running away several times, at 16 I was placed in what they call a supervised independent living environment, which was just a fancy way of saying that I stayed in a hotel room with another boy, was given vouchers for food and groceries, and had visits from a youth worker. I fell in with the wrong crowd, dropped out of school, started drinking and doing drugs. It was shit.

My point is, I had social workers who fought for me, who checked on my well being and made sure everything was going well, and those that didn't. I still am in touch with my former foster parents, (my foster dad survived) and visit them on holidays and for birthdays. I truly believe that if I could have stayed with them my life would have been a lot easier. I made bad choices, yes, but who at 15/16 doesn't, especially when you have little to no adult supervision? CPS can work if the right people are involved, it needs to be improved of course, but all the improvements in the world won't work unless the right people are involved.

Sorry you had to experience that, R64. Glad he survived and that you are all still in touch.

My god, the constant insinuation on these threads that the murder wives weren't 'real' lesbians is fucking tiresome. We get it: you're over-invested in the notion that lesbians are The Best People and, therefore, if these two woman abused and killed their adopted children they can't possibly be Real Lesbians!

FFS, get some priorities.

Reading about Jenn shoplifting, wonder how those urges played into her punching a first grader black and blue and sticking her head under cold water for picking up a penny at school? Poor impulse control repeatedly by Jenn but was it a --we hate most in others what we hate in ourselves-- kinda thing?

The kids were a cover for Jenn not ever really transitioning to being a functional adult and may have kept Sarah tied to her (since she could not seem to maintain close relationships with family or friends).

Nope, you missed the point entirely, R66.

Jenn seemed to be primarily focused on getting attention from men, using the kids to do so, not typical of lesbians. She seemed to use Sarah as an income stream and a social justice point, whilst being happy to live apart from her for extended periods of time.

Jenn played on a boys baseball team, seems she might have sought out a rec team as an adult, it is a common way to connect with other dykes, no? Even before the kids needed to be isolated to hide abuse, it seems like Jenn was profoundly isolated and Sarah was possibly kind of a cover for that.

Lesbians are capable of good and bad acts, like any humans. But was a lesbian identity just part of grifter Jenns dramatic social justice narrative? Sarah a means to an end? A source of income? Nothing particularly woman centered in their lives or even in forcing a tomboy foster kid to get a makeup makeover at a department store. Yet sawing the nipples off mannequins owned by a store? She is a mass of contradictions.

A lot of lesbians would listen to at least some women centered music (huge at the time they were teens), but nope, it was Nacho and Max and football players that Jenn was obsessed by. Her son she felt closest too, her daughters who were the most abused. Nothing too female centered at all.

It is notable and an obvious topic for a gay chat board. If you do not want to read about it, scroll or avoid the threads.

It's like you don't even realize that you're doing it.

*It's like you don't even realize that you're obsessed and constantly doing it.

Said the hippie fighting to keep any part of the narrative from being questioned?

Guess again. I think all these hippy fuckers were ignorant at best, if not outright complicit. They're only interested in protecting their own image and potential income.

She had some connections with some of the female new age dancers, singers, too. She could have been drawn to the two males ones because: they were more interesting, or because she was contradictory personality (kind of a bi trait, really). We will never know.

Well, we sure agree on that, R72!

From the Oregonian

The curated life Jen Hart presented on social media contains elements that appear unreal or overstated. The only people who probably knew the truth are dead.

Speculation, about all of it, may be all we get.

If Jenn could not maintain relationships or function well, glomming onto a closeted relationship with work horse Sarah provided her with companionship, an audience/adulation and $$$, Jenn liked to be big in her worlds.

Again from the Oregoneon

After the photo of Devonte and the police officer went viral, she said reporters staked out the family home for weeks. Their mailbox filled with positive messages from people worldwide, she wrote on Facebook. “Kim Kardashian = #breaktheinternet. Devonte Hart = #healtheinternet,” she wrote.

So the messages were positive? Wait? I thought they had to pull a kid from a school he was never enrolled in due to the negative response? Nothing she says adds up, especially over time. In real life, with consistent interaction, people notice, and distance.

They had to hide out from public attention in 2014 but she is posting away online and famewhoring to get her name and picture in the paper any time she does allow the kids out? At The Goonies event, etc, they were mentioned several times in the article, in 2015, when they were supposed to be hiding out. People like this are great with the gullible who have an impression set then never stop to re-evaluate.

If you have never had someone like this in your life, count yourself as lucky. Their actions and stories run the gamut and it is just exhausting. Like Jenn, they often do not or cannot maintain relationships or steady employment. College and midlife seem to be times of decompensation. Someone I knew like this also used to shop on line for sibling groups to save. Thankfully she lacked the steady income, or a Sarah figure, to follow through. Her sexual orientation seemed to vary as well, kind of a what can you do for me, kind of approach. It seemed to be a combo of childhood abuse and mental/perception problems that are reinforced by isolation. She was dramatic and ended her life early, at least not taking 7 other people with her.

If these types are relatives it is a nightmare. I cannot fathom the life those kids led - that pic of Devonte in the rain playing magic Negro and managing Jenn and her feelings - is probably a good snapshot. I imagine he was the kid who was not hit, as well.

Good point, R73, maybe she valued the attentions of Nacho, Max, Jojo, etc most highly since they were the stars or dominant figures? More reflected glory?

When the friend called for the welfare check, she said no one had seen or heard from Sarah or Jenn - so was Jenn truly isolated or was that exaggerated? Did she leave the kids, with, perhaps, Devonte in charge? The info is sketchy with unreliable narrator Jenn as a primary source, so who knows? Sometimes parents like this will kill or threaten to kill pets to keep kids in line, wonder if that was part of the high pet death rate or if they were all just old, or also underfed with no medical care?

Did her rape story remind anyone else of Lens? Just a bit? Wish we could see the post Jenn made for some sort of context. Hope Lens never acquires children.

The kids needed interventions and likely a break from Jenn and her issues.

Jeremiah may have been on the spectrum or had OCD if this incident ever happened.

Crayons, long drives and chickens are not interventions for those things. Why not explain it was the alarm system causing the red light to blink? The kids had medical provided, we all know why they could not access it though, to hide abuse. The die was pretty much cast after the conviction with no meaningful intervention in MN.

Hard to know if it is true though since pot selling daycare chick claims both that Hannah explained to her that she did not want her teeth fixed and that she had never heard Hannah speak. She and Jenn seem to be birds of a feather, delusional and lying together...

R68 Really? So in yr expert opinion she “wasnt really a lesbian?” You raise more questions about yourself than you do this sad sack sadist of a woman. I think you are trolling this subject across multiple threads.

As a Lesbian I happen to enjoy the friendship of “woke men.” Many gay women have male friends and remain firm in thier primary emotional commitments to women. In this case the woman in question had very little social contact and the internet was her primary outlet. From this you deduct that she wasnt a Lesbian.

DL posters, I have noticed on other websites that there are numbers of Trolls/Bots that are focused on invalidating Lesbian women - whether deceased celebrities in same sex relationships, or Jenn Hart/Sarah Hart.

This is trolling at its worse.

R76, lesbians need all the defense that can be mustered these days but perhaps kitchen sinking that issue with a focus on Jenn Hart is not the way to go? Surely there are women and relationships more worthy of your passion?

Her bizarre and impulsive acts culminating family annihilation are not really examples of anything but flags to run from if you encounter them IRL. She was an extremely monstrous and disordered person, and her relationship was an example of domestic violence culminating in a murder suicide. Please find healthier people to champion.

Wonder if this is what Jenn characterized as vandalism by Jeremiah in OR? Seems more like curiosity? The neighbor did not mention any breaking of windows or anything for access? At one point Devonte and Jeremiah were about the same size. Or did Devonte do it and Jenn said it was Jeremiah since Devonte had to be perfect?

It seems like they were always trash talking the kids to people and bringing up their backgrounds. Along with telling people they would never have jobs or families. Just shitty. The neighbor talks about it as not a big deal, no harm done, but Sarah, not Jenn, was angry. These kids really had no chance in life. Just heartbreaking.

R77 Not taking yr bait. They were sadistic murderers. I was objecting to a poster that continues to send the same anti -gay message championed by alt right trolls and Bots.... “not real lesbians.”

I have been on DL since early days, R79, but easy enough to block you and move on. If you alienate allies as persistently IRL, you do your causes no favors. By all means, champion the Harts any way you wish.

Other parent bloggers usually figure out ways to monetize it all. Still feels like there is a secret Paetron out there. Jenn sells it all hard, too bad the reality was so horrific.

Jen Hart August 22, 2017 ·

"It's just a shadow. They won't even care." The eclipse glasses we were gifted were recalled and possibly dangerous. We found this out less than 24 hours before the eclipse and were traveling, so we didn't have the means or space to whip up 8 homemade viewing devices in time. After about 100 calls, we popped into one last place. We were informed they were sold out. I probably looked a bit defeated at this point. The employee continued, "It's just a shadow. They won't even care." as he glanced over the family. The same sentiment was easily observed on Facebook as well. I cared. I cared a whole heckuva lot. I cared so much that I dropped $100 when I spotted someone selling a bundle on Craigslist. I get it. It's not for everyone. 1986. I was 7 years old standing barefoot on the grass of Wisconsin Ave in Huron SD. Holding the same binoculars that spotted the cardinals and warblers in the backyard, I witnessed Halley's comet. Grandma told me that she would never see the comet again, because it wouldn't be back for another 75 years. For her, it was a once in a lifetime experience, and I was fortunate enough to share it with her. Some of the most cherished memories of my childhood occurred while gazing at the night sky with my grandmother. She taught me how to find the constellations and what planets were visible at various times. We would lay down on a tattered blanket and stare into the great beyond talking about the possibility of extra terrestrial life, argue about spaceship sightings, and count shooting stars while being serenaded by a chorus of cicadas and the occasional hoot of an owl. This was my heaven. These were the moments that filled me full of life and inspiration. Yesterday, as we gathered on a blanket in the same fashion I did with my grandma, it was impossible to not feel connected to everything that she was and is and hold that same feeling with our children. It wasn't even three minutes into the eclipse before I heard the first "WOW" of wonder. His face held the stories of ages, and majesty of being part of something bigger than ourselves. We shared moments of silence and moments aided with music that caused tears to trickle down our cheeks. The chill and transformation of totality was as if they were taking their first breath of life in unison. The whisper of "Thank you mom. I will never forget this." is etched on my heart. This was indeed not just a shadow. You can't put a price tag on memories that will become stories passed to future generations. They absolutely cared. #Totaleclipseofthehart

Jen Hart FB post

This was posted shortly before the murders.

Jen Hart March 15 ·

Celebrations Yesterday we celebrated the 9th anniversary of the official adoption day of Sierra, Jeremiah, and Devonte. We celebrate all.the.things in this family: The day we met our kids. The day they came home. The official finalization/court date. Birthdays of cats, dogs, chickens. seasons. anniversaries. Tuesdays. Why? Why not? I get this one precious life to live. When you open up your various social media accounts, it’s probably safe to say you are inundated with a lot of challenging thoughts, feelings, realities, and events going on in this world. Many of these ongoing discussions are vital to moving forward as a society and to cultivating a better world. I firmly believe that the greatest impact starts with watering the roots of family. So, while I may march in the streets, voice my thoughts and opinions on controversial topics, stir the proverbial pot and challenge people I love with alternate viewpoints and realities, I also choose to celebrate this life as often as freaking possible. 9 years ago, the adoption of these three humans was finalized. "Finalized" ~ the terminology seems so unfitting for the situation. It was just the beginning. A new beginning of an expansion of my(our) understanding of love. I am a better human in every possible way for knowing these children. They have been my greatest teachers. I'm immensely grateful to the people that have opened their hearts and shared time, talents, and love with this family. I couldn’t be more in awe of all the people that choose to CELEBRATE this life with us. The thousands of people that have shared a hug, a dance, a story, a laugh, a meal, a cry, a word of encouragement, a smile, a song ~thank you for joining us on this shared journey. Thank you for exemplifying the true meaning of family. Contrary to the common notion that we can't choose our family, we absolutely can. We choose by loving - and that’s worth celebrating every damn day.

F&F r1 and r25. If you don't like this thread then skip it.

If you love somebody let them go. Jen didn't follow her own advice.

r81 Jen was either overly sensitive or those kids knew enough to kiss her ass because that is laying it on way too thick.

[quote] A new beginning of an expansion of my(our) understanding of love. I am a better human in every possible way for knowing these children. They have been my greatest teachers.

Such a great love. Oh brother.

Magical experiences the kids were having - beatings, waterboarding, starvation? Magic maybe if your name is LaVey!

I can see why people who just saw her social media and who envied the childhood depicted are having difficulty reconciling the reality, but tbe endless investigations and a criminal guilty plea for child abuse are facts. The kids look more or less emaciated at different times, she really was good at manipulating perceptions.

I have known people like Jenn, if their lips are moving, they are lying or spinning. They tend to move through friends quickly as people catch on and to be estranged from family. They do not have stable employment and social media is a perfect platform. Kids often catch on before adults, Hannah called her moms racists while the hippies still claim they are warriors for racial equality.

Being hungry as a kid SUCKS if your family does not have much $. To have food maliciously withheld, in peak growing years, is profoundly sick. Jenn and Sarah certainly look well fed.

She writes this cue the violins BS about the anniversary - meanwhile she beat a tiny child with a belt, leaving bruises, while the adoption of Devonte, Jeremiah and Ciera Rose was pending and while they were in MN for a visit. They later claimed that little Hannah had fallen down stairs, surprised that they did not trot out the hoary chestnut that she walked into a door. You call it greatest love (what is it with these 80s song quotes?) and I say burn in hell motherfuckers and THAT is still too good for you!

I am gonna go with kiss her ass...remember when the football player signed the ball of the teen foster girl and moody Jenn gave her the silent treatment for days? You would not want her to withhold food for days, as she often did. Jeremiah could play the game.

You can't put a price tag on memories that will become stories passed to future generations.

Wait, I thought Jenn claimed that none of the kids would work, marry or have children of their own? So, which is it? Tragically, she made sure that prediction came to pass...

That last note reads like goodbye letter Maybe she liked to think about suicide from time to time.

Jeremiah wanting to see the flashing light sounds like autism. My brother is autistic and liked flashing lights when he was young - Lite Brite, flashing tops, flashlights, handheld light spinners, etc.

Devonte could have been scoping out the neighbor's car to hotwire and get the kids away to safety. Or maybe he just wanted a better look. Kids like cars.

How could Nasheen know that Hannah didn't want dental implants if "Hannah never talked?"

R64 I'm sorry you had such a tough life. I'm glad you survived and that you were able to re-connect with your nice family and that your dad survived the brain tumor.

To me, Sarah's final text to the woman most likely was to buy time. The woman was probably a co-worker at Kohl's or an area supervisor. Sarah gave a strong enough excuse as to why she wouldn't be coming into work. She texted at a time she knew the woman would be asleep. Moms were probably packing up the car.

If Sarah hadn't sent the text, the woman would have made the call for a wellness check that very day if Sarah didn't show up for work and didn't answer her cell. So the text bought them several days on the road.

I wonder if they were heading for the border and then gave up that idea in Ft. Bragg when they only had money for bananas for breakfast. Or, I still think it's possible that Devonte and Hannah were assigned to walk the leashed dogs so the 2 dogs could go to the bathroom. It probably happened when Jen was filling up the SUV with gas, the kids + moms were going to the restrooms. The moms would be distracted and Devonte and Hannah could run off with the dogs into the bushes. I'm still holding out hope they somehow escaped.

It could have been the breaking point for Jen knowing that she'd be busted and lose everything - the kids, their money, the house, SUV, etc. She decided to drive off the cliff and then drove north to a turnout she remembered or the next available place when the timing was right.

R85: Or she made all that shit up! All those corny posts about stuff the kids “said” sound just like people on Twitter with fake-profound kids voicing deep thoughts. She was a liar and a shitty writer.

She was always talking in New age cliches, there was nothing personal in it.

She worked so hard on branding, really wonder how she was planning to commoditize the kids. B Corp?

Why would the kids care about B Corps if Jenn had decreed that they would never hold jobs? After all, she had no degree and look what a banging success she made of her life!

I wonder if there was some incident that led to her degree being withheld, she stayed in school until Sarah graduated. Given that erratic behavior had started, and with her issues, wonder if there was plagerism or something of the sort that created issues at the school? Given the mannequins, perhaps even something like theft or destruction of university property?

[Jen Hart March 15]

The more I read that note, the more, in hindsight, it looks as though she is curating a way out of the walls closing in on what she must know, somewhere in there, can't go on.

She is imagining the mourners I think. And it makes me think her drive off the cliff was a fantasy in her back pocket for awhile.

She liked to look down into abysses, and they were starting to look back.

If the security system was on, then why didn't the car alarm go off? Maybe paranoid Jen sent him over because she was fixated or worried about the flashing light, like it might be a camera set to spy on her.

Are there any FB posts by Sarah? Just wondering if she writes the same new age way

R99, someone in the FB group posted something Sarah had written and everyone thought it sounded as if Jen had written it. Overblown, florid new age garbage. I’ll see if I can find it later.

R100

I saw that on Twitter.

Thanks, r101! Wanted to re-read it to see how “Jen”-ish it sounded.

Sounds like Jen wrote it!

Oregon CPS knew.

Sad, but pretty typical, R103.

OR should have gotten heights and weights on the kids to substantiate the allegations of underfeeding.

The punishments are bizarre - lying on the floor in a dark room for 4-7 hours is what they were told after coaching, locked in a closet for days is probably more like it. WTF?!

The road trip after a CPS attempted contact was a pattern.

Not a hell of a lot of love and light in that household.

CPS claiming that the women looked normal? I am sure that they got a got an earful about white saviorhood.

WTH?!

OR DID get weights and heights on the kids.

5 of the 6 were SO SMALL that they were NOT ON THE CHARTS FOR HEIGHT OR WEIGHT.

Yet the doctor listed having NO CONCERNS. And the investigation was closed in 5 days.

Rant some more that the neighbor calling a week earlier would have transformed their lives.

But Minnesota child welfare records show that a social worker said that, four years after the couple adopted their middle daughter, Abigail, the then 6-year-old was the size of a 2-year-old. Her school called child welfare authorities after the child was seen going through garbage and taking food. Records indicate school officials stopped telling the Hart parents when their children took food at school so that the children would not be punished.

Jen was a fucking psycho

One person who alerted authorities said that while the family was staying in her home, they ordered pizza and each child was only allowed one small piece. The next morning the pizza was gone. The woman told authorities Jennifer Hart became enraged and took all the children into a bathroom.

When they emerged, Jennifer Hart said none of them would be eating breakfast because no one would admit he or she had eaten the pizza, the woman reported. All the children then had to lie on a bed for four to five hours.They had to wear sleeping masks on their faces and lie with their arms at their sides, the woman said.

One woman interviewed case workers as part of their investigation of the Harts told them Jen Hart had reacted defensively when she asked her why she only gave the children tiny amounts of food and kept them away from people outside the family. The woman said Jen Hart told her that Hannah Hart, the oldest daughter who had been noted to be "very small" and lacking front teeth, was morbidly obese at the time of her adoption. Jen Hart said the girl "now was so much better," the woman reported.

A photograph of Hannah Hart and her two biological siblings at the time they were adopted shows a slender, normal weight 4-year-old girl with all her teeth.

Two women that Oregon case workers spoke to described Hannah and her biological brother Markis, the oldest of the Hart children, as the particular targets of Jen Hart's abuse.

They should have left these kids in TX, esp the 3 that the aunt tried so hard to adopt.

Hannah and Markis were her particular targets you can see the hollows in their bones in photos. I hope they are burning in Hell.

One of the women said that Jen Hart told her that Markis tried to kill her once but that Devonte saved her. She witnessed Markis make a benign comment. In response, Jen Hart made him lie on a floor in a dark room for seven hours as punishment. Another time, on Markis' July 1 birthday, he got in trouble so no one could tell him "Happy birthday," the woman told Oregon case workers.

What AMAZING examples of REAL lesbians, eh?

When Jen and Sarah Hart were interviewed, they told case workers they had been targeted in the past because they were vegetarian lesbians who adopted high-risk children while living in a small Midwestern town. They moved to Oregon to better fit in, they said.

People like this always play the biggest victims, yet when those 6 kids were placed with them they were normal sizes. Hannah called it when she said that they were racists. SJWs my ass. How did the purported homophobia prevent the children from being on height and weight charts? Oh wait, that was chubby women running their own little Gitmo that accomplished that.

So wish that they had the ending of the Turpin kids...

Ding, ding, ding, maybe MN did report the abuse on the visit of the second set of 3 to TX? Lots of people had Jenn and Sarahs number, but they kept moving. To avoid CPS for 5 weeks is unusual. So much for the adventures, they could not take the risk of going home. Wonder if they tried to fatten them up over the months before the doctor saw them, when 5 out of 6 did not make it on the chart for height or weight?

Earlier, Minnesota child welfare investigators had fielded six reports that one or more of the Hart children had been neglected or abused.

An Oregon child welfare worker called a case worker in Minnesota to ask about the Hart children's adoptions and background. She wrote that the Minnesota worker told her that Texas carried out adoptions "even when the child welfare office has not supported the placement."

The Minnesota worker said that the problem with Jen and Sarah Hart was that they appear normal and can talk convincingly about the children having high needs and mental health issues related to food, both stemming back to their early lives before adoption. "Then people tend to assign the problems to these children," the Oregon worker wrote that the Minnesota worker told her.

"Without any regular or consistent academic or medical oversight, ... these children risk falling through the cracks," the Oregon worker wrote in her report.

They obviously should have intervened earlier in Oregon in 2013.

It is clear why OR hoped to withhold these docs. Good Lord!

Oregon workers wrote that Minnesota's child welfare agency fielded six reports about the Hart family during a three-month period from November 2010 through January 2011. All of the reports were tied to Hannah or Abigail Hart, biological siblings who were adopted in 2006. Abuse was found to be substantiated in two of the six investigations.

But Oregon workers did not learn of a 2008 investigation into allegations Jen Hart injured Hannah.

Oregon did not learn that Sarah Hart had pleaded to criminal abuse of Abigail until Sept. 24, 2013. In that case, Abigail told investigators her mother had hit her because she had a penny that she claimed she had found but her mothers thought she had stolen it and that she was lying.

That was the only documents incident that resulted in consequences for either Hart parent. Sarah Hart was required to undergo in-home counseling and therapy, and the couple agreed to no longer physically discipline their children.

The final Minnesota child welfare report that Oregon officials learned about took place in January 2011. Hannah told a nurse she had not eaten all day. She said Jen Hart had shoved a banana and nuts in her mouth for being disrespectful. When the nurse asked Sarah Hart about what happened, Sarah Hart said "she's playing the food card. Just give her water," the nurse told a child welfare worker.

R113, I wish they had the Turpin outcome too, those poor kids. So now i think that Jen was definitely panicked when the Turpin story came out.

yes, they could probably fake normalcy

The thing that stops them, aside from having so many kids to deal with and put through the system, is that society at large tolerates a lot of "strict" parents and strange behavior ...so a lot can get by before it is deemed abuse or dangerous

Yes, R117 that is what it seems

she had to kill Sarah too in case she testified against her

And removal often ends up with the kids in worse circumstances, R118, to whit, out of the frying pan in TX and into the fire in MN.

Normal is often a euphemism for white and middle class. The kids were appropriate sizes at the time of their adoption.

Jenn was hoping it would be seen as a tragic accident.

Remind me why the hippies are building ALTARS to them again?

Btw, what the fuck was wrong with the nurse working with abused kids who was so simpatico with abusers? Hannah was NOT ON THE CHART for height or weight and when she told a medical professional that food was withheld that day she gave her WATER?!

Misread in my outrage, it was Sarah who told the nurse to give her water.

I do not think that Sarah was going to testify against Jenn, she was seen being in public being abusive herself.

The pizza story is so bizzare, to do that in a home when you are all guests? Cannot imagine, except that sometimes people like Jenn like to flaunt that rules do not apply to them.

No matter when WA CPS was called, I think Jenn would have killed them all. To me, the Turpin difference was the electronic evidence that provided the basis for a warrant, and things like the chains and filth were things that CPS does not readily overlook. I do not think WA would have removed them. After each CPS investigation the isolation increased and Jenn already seemed to be decompensating before this last round. Had Jenn and Sarah been bio parents of color those kids would have been taken in MN. It sounded like MN saw through the BS.

Comments at OR Live have a lot of hippies trying to shut down info.

Think all can agree with this one...

MaxPower 2 hours ago I'm sorry but this article just doesn't match the carefully staged Facebook photos that the mysterious 9th person was always able to capture.

[quote]I do not think that Sarah was going to testify against Jenn

She may or may not have; the possibility had to be eliminated

yeah, who was taking the photos?

Reading this shit makes me sick to my stomach. I wish those cunts were alive so they could face their consequences.

And I want to rub all this into the faces of those stupid festival people who are still defending them and not the kids.

Is anyone still defending them at this point?

The OR investigation was FIVE years ago.

And it seems that things got even WORSE since the move to WA.

The tactics Jenn and Sarah used are similar to those used in cults, wonder if either family or woman had some history?

The babbling on about white allyhood while punching, waterboarding and starving these kids for a decade - those women were true evil in human form. Still feels like there is a big piece missing around $. Sarah working at Kohls and the TX stipends still should not have given them the ability to swing the mortgage in WA. Wonder how much they put down? They did not make a huge profit on the MN house.

Not sure a bill re sharing info is going to make a difference. Reading between the lines it sure sounds like MN told TX to quash the second adoption. Even with the aunt taking it to the Court of Appeals to try to save the second set of 3, TX would not be deterred. Kids were removed in TX but were they made better off?

MN prosecuted Sarah, which triggered the pull out from school, where at least they had some respite and some access to food. Were they made better off?

OR was well aware of the MN records we all learned today. They were well aware that 5 out of 6 were not on the chart for weight or height. They still did not act, more about that is likely to come out. Even if they had, there are not a lot of safe places to put kids who are taken. (Teens in CPS care often face horrors, including sex trafficking, and sex assault of both males and females living in group homes is common.) If removed, they would have gotten food and education however.

Every time they were reported, the degree of isolation and starvation increased. After the OR report they pulled back from the festival community.

The final report in WA triggered family annihilation. I cannot get neighbor Bruce DeKalb saying this was about how he thought it would turn out, out of my head. White people have a lot of leeway to abuse, esp women and kids.

Hannah and Devonte are still missing. The FBI communications say that they may be travelling together. While that would be an amazing outcome, like a movie! it seems super likely all were in the car. Hopefully the end was quick and pain free. Life can be so shitty and unfair. RIP kiddos.

Props for 2 narcissists and abusers. Astounding racism and torture techniques at home while the tvictims were mere props to better virtue signal in public and on social media. Friend noted they were only animated for photos. Poor things were starved for a decade.

There were a lot of photos of the kids with food, but none of it was eaten or being eaten. I think the Turpins did that too? Sadistic fuckers.

Still think she was monetizing the kids somehow. People sent them stuff but I bet there was more. She marketed the family as a brand. Her social media had no sponsors as some mommy bloggers do. Hmmm...

So weird. Those photos were so elaborate. Facebook encourages this madness.

R130, what do you mean, “monetizing”...? Did she have a blog?

I don’t think it’s crazy to go there. Personally, I wondered about the Bernie appearances. Would they have gotten paid for them?

The farm/food pantry folks gave me pause. I think the farmer people were using the kids for free labor. I’d love to know more about that. Apparently they had some sort of relationship over a three year period.

Interesting, R132.

Anyone else surprised that there was not a Patreon account?

Okay, the family DID work at the farm/food pantry. It’s a sort of co-op deal. (It seems like a nice idea but it also seems that the poorest people wouldnt have the means to travel out to the country to work that system.). I remember reading that the kids would work and they received food. According to Tyler Boggs, he spent time alone with the kids* and they had plenty of opportunity to reach out and ask for help if they were being abused.

* It seems odd to me that those two murderous cunts let the kids out of their sight. They must have had a lot of trust in this man. And trust in the kids that they wouldn’t ask for help.

Surrounding the kids with food yet not letting them eat.

The description of the patties made me spit out my drink. The sight of their bones poking out brought tears to my eyes.

Jen Hart May 20, 2015 · Edited ·

Thanks to the continued inspirational efforts of Heart 2 Heart Farms, I was able to pick up nearly 1,800 Chez Marie GMO free - organic - gluten free - soy free - corn free vegetarian patties. Our family is currently assembling assorted boxes to deliver to those in need. If you are someone that could benefit from this, please let me know. I will be driving into Portland this afternoon to deliver the boxes. I know I will not be able to meet the needs of all those who reach out(as much of it is already spoken for), but I will do my best. Furthermore, if you are in awe of this, please consider volunteering your time at the farm(ANYTIME) so that more families in need can continue to be fed. Not to mention supporting your local farmer is one of the best ways to help this planet! We are all in this together. Helping each other on the path is the reason we are here!

Jenn was very creative in obscuring or distracting from her starvation of the kids in the photos. The pattern and hat draw the eye, but look at that bones of that poor girl. Aug 2017.

Thought she said the Harts were part of her daily life? Had not seen them since move from OR in 2016. Ava and Jenn both lie constantly. The pothead daycare also did not always have food for the kids. Is that a West Coast thing, or what?! No wonder she was down with not feeding the kids. Birds of a feather...

The OR investigation was in 2013.

The doctor who did not provide evidence for removal should face some kind of consequence. CPS needed testimony or medical evidence. Thanks to Jenn and Sarah and the doctor, they had neither.

5 out of 6 were not on the charts for height or weight. I think we can say these kids were in the 5. They must have felt so hungry and weak all the time. A medical professional looked at these kids, and punted. They look like they should be in a feeding center in a war or famine ravaged country, but nope, literally the slaves of virtue signalers in Portland.

Jenn put the photo at R138 on FB and everyone thought it was fine? Found the following blurb about it:

Jen Hart posted this picture on Facebook of three of her children in February 2013, five months before Oregon child welfare officials opened an investigation into whether the parents were denying the children needed food. Shown are, from left, Jeremiah, then three weeks from turning 9, Sierra, then 7, and Devonte, then 10. A doctor determined that the weights and heights of all the Hart children except Jeremiah were below growth charts for their ages.

R116

Jen bought bananas and a bag of something at Safeway in Ft. Bragg. Was it a bag of nuts? Maybe it wasn't breakfast but a punishment like before: [quote]Hannah told a nurse she had not eaten all day. She said Jen Hart had shoved a banana and nuts in her mouth for being disrespectful.

R116

Jen bought bananas and a bag of something at Safeway in Ft. Bragg. Was it a bag of nuts? Maybe it wasn't breakfast but a punishment like before: "Hannah told a nurse she had not eaten all day. She said Jen Hart had shoved a banana and nuts in her mouth for being disrespectful."

R138 This picture is truly one of the worst. All have ribs sticking out. A thigh the size of an arm --- topless girl. Is that Devonte on the right? What's with his knee caps? His face looks like an old man's.

Damn those women! I believe that they were both psychopaths. This is way beyond any narcissism or borderline I've witnessed.

I think the farm is set up like many organic farms run by socially-minded people around the world. What the Harts were doing is called gleaning. Some people pick the produce and give it away. Others pick it to feed themselves or their families. It's very big in the UK. People are still really suffering from collapse if the global economy due to Wall St. thugs.

In Florida, many corporate farms let their produce rot in the field rather than give it away. They don't want to deal with the insurance risk of someone getting hurt.

To answer someone above, Bernie didn't pay anyone to appear at his rallies. With the exception of a few signs, stickers and buttons that you had to pick up from a field office, everything was financed by volunteers.

Those shirts the Harts are wearing cost $20-25 each if I remember correctly. You had to order them online.

Reading all this, it’s easy to see those two psychos were never going to let those kids grow up and live into adulthood.

Why were the kids so often in their underwear? Was wearing clothes a privilege too?

As a follow up - not only why were the kid so frequently in their underwear, why were photos of the kids in their underwear posted on the internet? She claimed the others did not want video of dancing in their underpants online, implying, what, that Devonte did? What a fucked up bitch. Will not be surprised in the least if these kids were pimped out in images, in addition to being verbally commanded to hang all over adults in public. Maybe that was another plus to Jenn of keeping them looking pre-pubescent.

Read that Sarah DID NOT lose her job in MN, that was another lie. She may have left Jenn when her probation ended and that was a cover story.

Abigail in a Nahko shirt. This may have been at Shangri-La in 2013, the year of the OR investigation.

Jenn must have been livid when even the festivals became too risky.

Since the adoption of the first 3 was finalized in 2006, no way to blame the state of this skin and bones child on the birth family, although Jenn and Sarah did so all the time. Fuck Sarah and her ---playing the food card, give her water---comment, to a nurse. The kids were better off in their original families in TX. It is not unheard of for removal to increase risk of harm, even death. So few good options.

A lot of abusers use the punish all for the actions of one. That way the kids police each other, makes the job easier for the adult.

Stress positions, starvation, punching, waterboarding, sensory deprivation...it is like she studied the reports from Gitmo. All while posing as some huge love and light, racial justice SJW loving mother.

Sarah was little better. Monsters.

Can that document be real? There's a section that reports that Lee the foster teen's placement did not last long because she used wire hangers against the Hart women's wishes.

Is that some kind of CPS worker dark humor in-joke or shorthand for abuse and insane behaviour?

Jenn must have watched Mommy Dearest. She claims that they ghosted the foster teen over the use of wire hangers. For real.

I have adult kids, all of which are rather thin, and the picture at r138 disturbs me. When I was a kid in 1970s Detroit, CPS came to the door because I was too thin and my mother opened every cupboard and showed them food, but they didn't believe her.

I was placed with my grandmother and when I got older I realized I had been through many beatings and abuse. I don't remember it, but there are written reports.

Yes, I probably would have been thin like my own kids, but nothing that looked like r138.

You can see Jen and the kids in this one

I was skimming websleuths and read this:

"It's towards the end of the CPS report, not the article. You have to get inside the report and scroll down. The person making the report told the social worker that Jen was obsessed with her and wanted to leave Sarah for her."

Do you people who are following this case know anything about this?

Quite apart from any punishment strategy, there are women who really like their children to be thin, to the point of withholding food from them. They abhor pudgy or chubby children. Having really skinny kids is a kind of virtue signalling in this age of pudgy children.

Also, the Hart parents were photo-obsessed, and the camera puts on 10 pounds. Imagine how those kids looked in person. Maybe the parents were obsessed with the children photographing well. Like really thin fashion models.

[R154] I find what you said so ironic (i.e., parents wanting their children to be thin) given than Sarah could have lost a few ad Jen was a tub. Yet those poor kids were skin and bones. I think the starvation/withholding of food was nothing more than sadistic punishment. Those pictures make it look like those poor kids were nothing more than props. RIP.

then I read this at websleuths, in reference to the post at R153:

"The anon person making the report is the one who told the social worker about Jen being obsessed with her."

Are there links to any full documents from CPS or otherwise?

here

From the CPS documents at R158

"The worker said this placement didn't work out for very long, and one of the breaking point issues was the girl used wire hangers against the Hart's wishes"

I have a question about wire hangers. If wire hangers are so objectionable, why are they in the home in the first place? Did Christina Crawford and Foster Child Lee go out and BUY them?

I’m not a huge fan of wire hangers, so when we get them from the dry cleaners, I put them in the metal recycling bin.

R156, I’m assuming that the woman Jen was obsessed with was Alexandra Argyropoulos. Does that sound right? She’s the one who had the Harts as houseguests. And she’s married to a man, apparently.

R160

I can't imagine that note was meant literally, give it's an iconic pop ultra reference to child abuse of a certain type.. More probably it was a metaphor for unreasonable expectations of perfection, with non compliance or mistake seen by the foster family as willfulness, rejection, or ingratitude. OIW, the "poor fit" Jen and Sarah complained of. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a common shorthand around the office for a particular type of poor fit.

"‘No wire hangers!’ entered the vernacular as shorthand for neurotic maternal instability"

A few parallels maybe.

When CPS writes reports, the case workers don't use metaphors or inside jokes. The reports are often used in court cases and have to be read by many different people. I have a hard time believing that fictional literary devices are allowed in a factual report.

R164

Their is the possibility that it was a facetious or remark taken literally by the Oregon caseworker. Such things do sometimes happen. The MN caseworker seems to be bright, to have the Hart's number and views their way of excusing parental whims with a satirical eye.

Or perhaps it was a flippant and defensive sarcastic answer of Jenn herself when she turned I her "kid drop off report" or whatever they make foster parents do.

Wire hanger conflict didn't feature in any of Lee, the foster-daughter's accounts, and was t remarked on in any of the tales Jenn spun out for her acquaintances. it's too iconic a reference to child abuse and neurotic motherhood to be literally true.

Thanks for the document link, R158. I also think the wire hangers reference just HAS to be code; if it were literal, there would be more information. Otherwise it reads as nonsensical.

I'm a nurse who has worked in pediatric and adolescent psych units. If we suspected there was abuse and a parent was lying to us, our written assessment began with "the parent appears to be an unreliable historian" and nothing would be accepted at face value. Who is this doctor who reassured CPS that Hart kids were normal and healthy? MDs always err on the side of caution for fear of litigation. The social worker states Jen was delusional and needed to feel heroic: then they don't explore her mentions of psych/mood disorders and psychotropic meds? The kids had been in the school system--there would be IEPs and paperwork documenting the kids' social interactions. I just don't understand how the system failed so utterly when the social workers had the family's number. Ugh, so tragic.

Agree, r166. That doctor has blood on their hands, and I suspect was hand-picked by the Hart cunts because they were sympathetic to their “naturopathic” bent.

This doctor was someone I met many years ago. He and his partner adopted two children (white, blonde, I think they were by surrogate). They were wan and very small and thin. I should say no more.

My point in all this is that there are all kinds of doctors out there. My own pediatrician flat-out told us at our first appointment if we don’t want to follow the official vax schedule, we needed to find another doctor. At the other end of the spectrum are people like this.

If there are quacks like this in Manhattan, I’m sure it wasn’t hard to find one in OR.

He’s still treating children, BTW ^^

This all just got very real for me, because reading the CPS report, I discovered that Devonte was born on exactly the same date as my son -- October 24, 2002.

My son, ftr, is 5'9", and he's not even one of the taller boys in his 9th-grade class. Devonte looked to be about 5'0" in all his pix, so unless his birth parents were midgets, he has to have been malnourished. I also initially thought Jeremiah was his older brother, since Jeremiah was the taller one, but he was actually younger.

Oddly, except for Hannah's missing teeth, all the kids seemed to have very healthy white teeth (surprising, if they were malnourished and vegan -- no milk for calcium). And they did get glasses for Jeremiah and Abigail (I think), who needed them. So they must have gone to get prescriptions for those.

Is there another link to the document r158 doesn’t work for me - says document no longer available

R153 = sillybilly

R170, they are here. Scroll down.

I think the wire hanger comment was trolling the caseworkers by the Harts, maybe.

Are the psych med references in the reports? Must have missed those.

MN DID seem to have their number, that is why they moved.

Any photos of the object of Jenns fixation and the kids?

R173, I’m assuming the person who reported was Alexandra Argyropoulos. There is a photo on her Twitter account, of the kids in front of the Golden Gate Bridge. There is also a woman of the same name on LinkedIn, who’s in the Bay Area; her photo shows an attractive woman who resembles Sarah.

I’m speculating. The object of Jen’s obsession could be someone else entirely.

Nusheen/Ava daycare pot peddler also resembles Sarah

She took the rap for her in MN, worked in retail and Jenn was spending her time online lining up a replacement. If you have never known someone like Jenn, count yourself lucky.

Early Hart Tribe marketing materials - seeking more kids on the page of the closed adoption agency

Closed adoption agency moved a lot of kids from TX to MN.

I saw this elsewhere, but it was someone on Websleuths who found all the agency info. I have not been to the site but it was good research.

In this article at least one other child hoarding type situation is mentioned.

the wire hangers comment is interesting. Someone could verify with the former foster child if it were true. Where does a foster kid get wire hangers anyway?

I think Lee was interviewed for an article and wished to be anonymous so not sure there is a way to get more info on the hanger sitch. They did not even give her a heads up, say goodbye, nothing. Just ghosted a teen when they had gotten what they wanted from the rx, to portray themselves as experienced parents, although they were just out of college.

Supposedly Sarah bragged about not having to pay for festivals, that is probably the goal of the photos and videos aimed at Nacho, Max, etc. It probably also gave them cache to seem tight with them.

I recall a psychiatrist saying a long term patient who never drank went on a bender one night and he got called by authorities as his name was on a prescription bottle. Jen never drank so she either had mental issues and was manic or she was staging an accident crash. I can’t believe she put those horrid starved kids picture on social media—how could she and Sarah not notice? I wish those kids had been loved like they deservec😭

Ewww, they bargained their white saviorhood for deals? Did they pay for the Bernie t-shirts or was that a gimme?

I'm newly repulsed by the latest CPS files. I admit that I was one of the "the kids are just skinny" posters initially. Now I see. Oy, I can't even imagine having food insecurity like that. I grew up with the worst thing happening re: food was seeing my morning cereal back at dinner because I didn't eat it in the am. That only happened a couple times. Can't even imagine needing to sneak a slice of pizza and then dealing with gestapo questioning techniques and punishments.

Those fucking pictures of the kids so nicely turned out fooled me (and others) and I feel dumb. It was all a cover-up. At the memorial, I hope protestors against the so-called mom cunts show up. Wish I lived in the area.

R172, and now the documents have been removed from scribd. Interesting. Oregon has changed their practice of reviewing a family from a 5 day assessment to 30 days using this case as a teaching moment, apparently. On the backs of those poor kids. Usually I'm very pro CPS because who the hell wants that job but omfg, this tries my patience, oh I'm sick over this case 😩

[quote]Ewww, they bargained their white saviorhood for deals?

I'm guessing Jen had a verbal press kit at the ready. "I have this many followers on Facebook; this many on Instagram; Devonte has appeared in 11,964 publications worldwide and we've done interviews with x, y, and z. We travel to festivals all over the continental US and we attract positive attention wherever we go. Just imagine all of those eyes glued to us, with your t-shirts front and center..."

The funny thing is, the CPS report confirmed everything we've been saying here all along — right down to the dynamic of Jen and Sarah's relationship — and we only had pictures and a few FB posts to go on. We're expected to believe that Nahko, Max Ribner, Tots-n-THC Lady, and the rest of their fan club didn't notice that something was off? Please. That only works if every one of them is lacking an amygdala.

Even if their only interaction had been via Facebook, line after ostensibly verbatim line of Yoda the Magical Negro pontificating like Ramtha in a Walmart fedora gave the game away.

So Jenn was definitely in to women as far as seeking out personal partners. Can we park the 'hmm, she doesn't sound very lesbian to me' routine and concentrate on her being a total nut job who just happened to be a woman who fucked women?

The starving of these children is horrific. The photos of them half-dressed at these hippy festivals look like adverts for Club Med Darfur. I don't know how these people have the nerve to put their head over the parapet, let alone talk about protecting their community.

Did you catch that he was nationally famous for his hugs campaign, before the photo, R184? That kind of thing makes CPS workers cringe, not applaud. We were right about the rx between the women not being solid either. People capable of such cruelty and disassociation about their actions are not good candidates for real intimacy.

The magic Negro in the rain post was astonishing, with D not only managing Jenn and her mental issues but also offering to do the laundry! Those kids ran the house while she sat on her fat ass gaming.

Things that have struck me from these threads:

Hannah in the green shirt with white vest, for years, never growing is profoundly sad. She told the neighbors that Jenn and Sarah were racists, she knew the score.

The festival freak going on about the massages Abigail gave him and her --weightless-- body made it super clear that Devonte was not the only one exploited to serve the needs of adults both inside and outside the family. How far that went I shudder to think.

Did Sarah leave her and move to OR? Even for Jenn, this story is paranoid and nonsensical.

Pt 1 of accident

R186 Abigail massages??? I missed this totally, is it in the CPS documents? Jesus Christ these poor poor children

In a WaPo article it said Jennifer told a welfare worker they received $2,000 a month in adoption assistance. WTF? I adopted a child and get nothing.

[quote]One person who alerted authorities said that while the family was staying in her home, they ordered pizza and each child was only allowed one small piece.

Sounds like there was leftovers because the kids got in trouble for somebody eating the leftover pizza. So limiting them to 1 piece is a shitty thing to do.

What a couple of evil psycho bitches. Don’t see any evidence of “racism” however, where is the assertion that the kids’ racial makeup had anything to do with their mistreatment? Given Jen’s apparent insanity, surely she would’ve treated kids in her care like shit no matter their race.

[quote]One of the women said that Jennifer Hart often made the children look like “one big happy family” in photos she would post on Facebook. After the photo was taken, the children would go “back to looking lifeless,”

I wonder if these dehumanizing patterns of abuse are more commonly inflicted on non-biological children - does anyone know?

I’ll agree to stop with the “was she really a lesbian?” stuff. Apparently, Jen was a lesbian who didn’t have LGB at the top of her SJW list of priorities. It doesn’t have much significance to anything that happened.

*shrugs*

The adoption agency even looked sketchy. Sara H and one of the children are even shown on their main page.

Jenn's writing is always just fake "progressive" and new age jargon. No personal thought or information. She might as well be typing:

**HJk;airmi;rof'a9954-q=q==;DED&*NV il;gmn

From the Washington Post: “On Tuesday, Lorraine Fealy, who lived across from the family in Minnesota, told The Post that the children rarely left the house. They often marched down the stairs or stood in a line, waiting for a command from Jennifer Hart.

“This always bothered me and our neighbor next door,” she said. “It wasn’t right to us. We called them little soldiers.”

She said she once told Jennifer Hart, “Oh my gosh, how do you do it with such perfect kids?” Hart looked incredulous.

“She said, ‘They are not perfect kids!’ ” Fealy said. “She didn’t speak to me after that.””

Not surprising. I can’t imagine kids behaving that way unless they were really afraid of getting the shit beaten out of them.

R187

Is part two around anywhere?

Yeah, don't tease us with unimaginable horror and then fail to deliver.

Though knowing this bitch it was all made up anyway.

I hate the way she writes so much, I'd like to dig her up and kick her in the vagina bone.

R193

I don't know if it more commonly happens to adopted children, but I have heard of abuse against adoptees where the bio kids in the house were treated fine while the adopted kids were severely neglected and abused. I mentioned the Ethiopian girl Hana earlier in this thread, and both she and the other Ethiopian child who was adopted with her were kept in closets, beaten, starved, and exposed to the elements (the latter is what killed Hana) while the white bio kids in the family weren't neglected or abused. If anything, they contributed to the abuse.

R191

Hannah, the girl who ran to the neighbors' house, claimed they were racist. I assume she knew something the rest of us don't.

The story about Abigail giving massages to some hippy dude and about her --weightless body-- were on a prior thread, maybe Part 5 or 4?

These kids existed to meet the emotional and narcissistic needs of the adults around them. Tragic that they will never have a chance to have a life of their own or even know what it is like to not be hungry. I hope Jenn and Sarah lived for a while and suffered greatly.

Weightless Abi

Continued - Abi massage

These were written by an adult man in the festival tribe. More Magic Nego BS. Starved so not on the charts for height or weight for her age, she is some weightless sprite bringing physical and emotional comfort to some high dude probably at least twice her age.

New comment from a former neighbor in The Washington Post today: "On Tuesday, Lorraine Fealy, who lived across from the family in Minnesota, told The Post that the children rarely left the house. They often marched down the stairs or stood in a line, waiting for a command from Jennifer Hart. “This always bothered me and our neighbor next door,” she said. “It wasn’t right to us. We called them little soldiers.” She said she once told Jennifer Hart, “Oh my gosh, how do you do it with such perfect kids?” Hart looked incredulous. “She said, ‘They are not perfect kids!’ ” Fealy said. “She didn’t speak to me after that.”

It was human slavery, not a loving family.

The Turpins were described as marching as well.

I wonder if they read the Turpin coverage.

This was years ago but the parallels are eerie.

Look at this snap of hippie boot camp. Their twig like arms are horrifying.

I think the pics of Markis were his jaw bone poking out. He said something to one of the CPS reporters about waiting until the others ate and seeing if there was anything left. He and Hannah were often excluded from the faked photo ops. Hannah was not in the video created for Sarahs bday.

Having no one speak to him or wish him Happy Birthday as a punishment is so twisted.

The Turpins chains and filth gave CPS a basis for removal along with the video evidence of the same. After MN told them to stop corporal punishment, she went to things like stress positions. Love and Light by way of Gitmo. Sick bitches. Sarah was said to be NO better.

Link did not post, trying again.

All that is missing from hippy boot camp is Nacho himself...

Report from a family friend, so very sad...

Bad link, sorry. Trying again, re R210

A report re the rx between the 2 women, hint, it was not epic romance. There have been pics on FB of Sarah with bruises. She was also said to be cold and abusive towards the kids.

R211

How did Jen know Steve didn't eat the pizza? I think we all know who ate the pizza.

What a sick bitch this Hart less Jen was

r203, they were just kids but they treated them like magical negroes.

I thought Abigail had massaged a woman who burst into tears. It was a man?! Even worse.

Jen said that Devonte had a mood disorder and ADHD but had stopped his medicine because she didn't believe the diagnosis.

She said that Jeremiah was "globally delayed" and didn't know how to use a fork.

These kids should have gone to extended family, at least the 3 of them who had the aunt legally fighting for custody.

The kids needed stable loving homes and time to catch up. Not what they got. That worker in MN sure had their number. The Harts got interventions following the criminal convictions - their response was to yank the kids from school and to move as soon as possible. These were not people who had good intentions who were overwhelmed or ignorant. Had they stayed in MN I think the kids would have been removed. Bye bye TX tax money.

Hart less is perfect!

Unlike Jenn, Sarah came from a seemingly stable, happy home.

“Nothing stood out,” said Big Stone City Mayor Deb Wiik. She was talking about Sarah (then Sarah Gengler), who grew up in the town of 600 that lies so close to Minnesota that Sarah went to high school there. “They seemed like a very nice family.”

Sarah’s dad worked at a hardware business, her mom at a cheese factory, recalled Lori Brandt, a middle-school teacher who taught all the Gengler children. Sarah was a good student and a great kid, Brandt said. “She baby-sat for us.”

After high school, Sarah went for a semester to the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities, and then transferred to Northern State University in Aberdeen, South Dakota, according to records from both schools.

She majored in elementary education — and so, during the same period, did Jen Hart, who hailed from Huron, South Dakota, a prairie town of about 13,000.

They left school in 2002 and were settled by 2004 in Alexandria, Minnesota.

From another board

The agency used was sketchy as hell

There appear to have been 2 foster children - the wire hanger kid and then tomboy Lee, whose purpose was to help get them on the adoption track as 20 somethings. Once achieved they ghosted the poor kid without a word and never had contact again.

The volume of removals without allowing extended family placements feeds the maw of an industry operating on the edges of the law, or possibly outside it. A lot of players cannot make $ if the kids go to Aunt X, in state.

“I wonder if these dehumanizing patterns of abuse are more commonly inflicted on non-biological children - does anyone know?”

I do know, as I study this. Adoptive parents have much lower abuser rates of all kinds than biological parents. The highest levels of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse comes from stepparents, specifically stepfathers.

That's interesting, r221, and surprising to a certain degree (the part about adoptive parents having lower rates of abuse).

What exactly do you do, that you're studying these issues, and what more can you tell us on the subject?

R222, I don’t post revealing information, but in broad terms I study evolutionary theory. Most biological parents support their biological kin under kin selection theories, and it is theorized that adoptive parents usually want to be parents so much that they do not even require genetic relatedness (a sort of biological altruism by default). Step-parents, on the other hand, do not always have the same parent (kin selection) or “superparent” tendencies. Humans may also have vestigial infanticide (coupled with an evolved desire for paternity certainty) impulses in a “step-parent” situation that we might share with other great apes such as gorillas, one famous Swedish study indicates this regarding step-fathers. The bulk of the studies also indicate that adoptive parents are more often the so-called “better” parents compared to biological or step-parents. I do not know the studies regarding foster parents.

We haven't heard much from Jen and Sarah harts past. Here is a comment on nusheens post that can give us an idea of who Jen was in high school.

"I knew Jen Hart in high school. I didn't care much for her. She seemed to have what I would describe as a "superiority complex:" In that, she gave me the vibe that she thought she was smarter than everyone else, she was cunning and manipulative, and above all else, she was an attention seeker. (No, I never thought she was someone who would kill 6 children, she wasn't violent or cruel, I am saying this was just a "vibe"). Not everybody saw her the way I did, though. She had plenty of friends who genuinely seemed to enjoy her company and who clearly did not get the same vibe from her that I did. These were, and still are, very good, kind, socially aware people that I call friends. I just assumed that Jen Hart and I had a vibe that just didn't "click," and that was totally OK. I certainly got along with her when I was around her, I just didn't care for her and therefore didn't seek her out. Years later, I was directed to her FB page by classmates when the famous photo of Devonte was getting a lot of attention. Cool! I thought, what an amazing thing she has done and is doing! I friended her. It didn't take long before I "unfollowed" her, because her posts creeped me out the same way she did in high school: They seemed manipulative, staged... highly attention-seeking. That is not to say I thought at the time she would harm those kids or that they were abused - it was just that same vibe all over again. My point is, just because you think you know someone, it doesn't mean you are seeing everything. You knew her for the past few years. I knew her 20 years ago. We have very different experiences, and saw very different things. Face the facts: If you knew her in person so well but couldn't tell something was wrong, you weren't perceptive. You were oblivious. You were too self-absorbed in the "Hart Tribe" story line to see past the tip of your own nose. Based on your post, I would say you still are."

Res ipsa loquitur.

That's best viewed full screen. Check the fear faces.

Thanks for posting, R224. I have known people like that, they tend to attract acolytes happy to drink the kool-aid. Those that see through the facade are exiled or self select to distance. Hannah saw though the BS.

People who were narcissists themselves (the performers, etc) seemed to appreciate the fake woke vibe the Hart association connoted on them within certain circles. Nusheen/Ava falls into that camp, she is using the attention to promote her pot business.

In the HS photo of Jenn she appears to have crazy eyes, even then. Both women who called CPS are married to men. For her to proclaim her obsession with either is more of the crazy/chaotic way she rolled. Curious to hear more about Sarah.

This is really a dark side of social media. It is the crack pipe of people like Jenn.

This photo is so sad. Hannah was the oldest girl and the tallest at the time of adoption, starved into the size of a kindergartner. She smiled openly until her teeth were mysteriously knocked out.

Jenn looks manic here.

[quote]People who were narcissists themselves (the performers, etc) seemed to appreciate the fake woke vibe the Hart association connoted on them within certain circles.

Who was it that called them "two shining lesbians"? What an odd thing to say.

My best friend adopted, they went through a ton of red tape and waiting and they just adore their adopted daughter. I think most people who adopt are so grateful to have a child. Fuck these two women who treated these kids like property.

why did Jen and Sarah adopt Devonte, Ciera, and Jeremiah, when they obviously couldn't handle the first three kids?

R217 Think of what could have happened if the state of TX gave money for rehab and tubal ligation for the bio mom of Devonte, Sierra and Jeremiah instead of funding Jen & Sarah.

I hope Mendocino County didn't cremate everyone together to save money.

No, I believe the oldest girl was Abigail, r228.

She would be the one on the left in your pic (which was taken with a fish-eye type lens that seems to distort all the sizes).

Hannah was the oldest girl (16), then. Abigail (14) and Ciera/Sierra (12.) Abigail was the tallest R233.

Fuck, R225, that looks like a fucking hostage video. Those poor children.

Where does that marching in the woods video come from? Did Jen have that on facebook?

I hope they don't give up on this investigation and just presume Devonte & Hannah are in the water then case closed.

Creepy, it’s like that bitch kept a captive performance troupe.

R337, I would LOVE to know where Devonte and Hannah are, but we might have to wait a long time. Since the perpetrators of the crime are dead, there’s no reason to investigate. There’s no one to arrest.

We don’t know what investigators found at the Hart house. IIRC, there were some “red flags” although no signs of disorder or violence. I have a hunch that there was some sort of restraint system or special room where the kids were punished.

And I also have a hunch that someday a hunter is going to find two skeletons chained to a tree in the middle of a forest. The traitors Hannah and Devonte.

I imagine $$$, R231? Jenn could not afford to not work on what TX would pay monthly for 3, 6 was more feasible.

Had not heard that, R239. Wonder if food was locked, doors alarmed, etc? The Turpins used chains.

So incredibly sad.

I read that Sarah did not lose her job in MN, that was a pretext for moving after her probation for beating Abigail ended. That probation included in home therapy and skills building. Jenn and Sarah had no interest in changing.

Sarah left for OR at least 6 months before Jenn and the kids who stayed behind supposedly to sell the house. Some think they had split for a time.

We have wondered where the $ to buy the WA house came from - it appears that Jenn had an inheritance.

[quote]We don’t know what investigators found at the Hart house

Do you think they will ever reveal to the public what they found re the house search or computer, phone searches?

[quote] it appears that Jenn had an inheritance.

Is there any proof at all of this? She seemed to be from a blue-collar family which she was estranged from. That does not usually mean inheritance.

I read that Jenn inherited money from her grandmother when she passed away and that enabled them to get a mortgage to buy the WA house. They did not make much on the MN house and rented in OR.

R240, that’s exactly what haunts me. That those two might have run way and either been caught and killed, or ran and then got lost in the forest or somewhere, and had no phone or means to call for help. They were young kids. In a panic, they might have left phones behind and just run blindly.

There’s a reason the parents drove that van over the cliff. The reason was the jig was up. But why exactly? If it’s different than the publicly given reasons, no one seems to know or care. The police there seem awful.

R243, I wonder about that, too. It sounds like Sarah LEFT and Jen was spinning it some other way.

R247, I don’t want to sound like a dick, but those kids didn’t have phones to leave behind. Jen would never let them have means to communicate with the outside. But yeah, Jen must have been worried about more than just another CPS visit. The kids had the routine down; they would have talked their way out of it yet again. I think it was serious.

I do not understand why people thought posts like this were ok? He was a child.

They had no lives or genuine experiences, the Magic Negro in the rain post was probably cribbed from their veritable god, Nacho Bear.

When the kids are posed with food, none is ever eaten. The Turpins did that too. Sadistic fucks.

Chickens in the house pooping all over are gross. I would think the feet would get tangled in her hair?

Devonte is not smizing in that photo.

My SIL commissioned a professional photo shoot of their family. The kids have those fake smiles; they’re baring their teeth but the eyes are bored/annoyed. There are a few shots where my niece looks like a little psychopath (I love her), with her full set of baby teeth showing and angry brows and eyes. As soon as those kids see a camera, they show their teeth.

He was probably pissed to be posed with food that was going to be eaten by tubby Jenn and Sarah. I think the Turpins posed the kids with pie?

Jenn got better at hiding the evidence of starvation in photos.

In the rain photo, his shirt seems dry?

Jenn likely came from abuse and was always off. She looks crazy in photos from high school. Sarah looks cold and bitchy. The kids --showing affection-- toward her look even more fake than most of the photos.

A whole group of little kids are cute, a big group of older kids - who cares? Unless all those --free hugs-- are your thing? What was the end game plan? They do not look like they were going through puberty but how long could they be starved into this limbo stage of looking younger than their ages?

Anyone see photos of Hannah after she had gone to the neighbors? She was so frail looking and surely Jenn retaliated?

A nearly fully grown teen, treated and fed like a child, showing compassion to a craven sadistic torturer. Those young teens lived this long on his empathy and ability to protect them by calming this bitches insanity. She loved it, He was practically her nurturer.

In the end he was only young and could do so much. I hope no one claims those bitches bodies and the kids are cremated and sent home to their family. I think photos of them should be posted in every single POS/Texas CPS office. And Oregon, WI, Washington CPS.

hello, i just recently discovered DL while extensively following the Hart case... i've been searching out every photo & video i can find but i can't find ANY visuals of the children past October 2016 (Devonte's 15th Bday Charity Sign). Even that awful, silent Waterfall Video was filmed in autumn of 2016. this seems so frighteningly significant, that after a lifetime of sticking cameras in everyone's faces, Jen abruptly just STOPPED filming for the entire final year of their lives. Has anyone here seen any footage from any point in 2017?? If so, could you please (re)post it? thanks so much

Good question, r255

People are holding a vigil in Portland today for the kids. Supporters of their murderers are not welcome.

Where are Devonte and Hannah?

There is a FB group that is trying to take action, whether raising awareness on the west coast that Devonte or Hannah are missing, contacting the media to try to change the narratives from those pushed by the hippies, possibly influencing legislation, etc. It is called Finding the Missing Hart Children/Honoring the Hart Children for those who are interested. It is a closed group but just apply to join.

R255, since you’ve been searching out pictures, do you have any idea when this one was taken? It has a Websleuths URL, but I saw it posted elsewhere as a stand-alone photo with no information attached. They look so much older here.

More Nacho and the Magic Negro children, including Max in yoga pants.

Have to say, he and Jenn market themselves to the hippie niche with astounding success. So many cross-branding opportunities. In the world where Filipino is sold as Native American, Jenn Hart can be sold as a loving mother. Had to make her livid when the festival crowd started reporting them.

What was her end game? The kids were growing up, not little anymore. Were they really going to live in that house all together for decades?

I wonder if it was the guy in the band who post about weightless Abigail? Standing her ground fearlessly and giving him a massage?

It seems like they were being incorporated into the performance at end of video above. They got music lessons from Max for almost a year. Maybe the hope was to make them performers too, but clearly that did not pan out. Surely they planned to file for disability for them but evidence is required. How were they going to keep that house as the kids aged out of the TX stipend? Clearly, without the TX money, if they lost custody it was game over. Not only was Jenn unstable, she had no degree and little work experience. A $400k house on a Kohls manager salary is quite a stretch.

I don't think they had "an end game." It is clear that none of it was thought out.

Telling people that the kids would never live independently seems calculated to forestall questions from the festival crowd.

Wonder if Tracy Chapman, Melissa Etheridge, or the Indigo Girls were ever on Jen and Sarah's playlist...

I would laugh in disbelief but Nusheen/Ava owns a DAYCARE.

R264 Fast Car no doubt

Has this been posted? It is difficult to grasp that this is not a parody.

Damn you 266!

The token POC hippie chick has finally grasped the monsterousness of the Harts.

app-facebook Niema Lightseed about 3 weeks ago I continue to struggle with making sense of this tragedy. The many layers of oppression and wounding woven into this story. As more is revealed and the pieces come together I struggle with feeling duped, and the idea that defending these women was a mistake. I know refusing to give into hate is never a mistake, but I must question my own (albeit unwitting) complicity in oppression. Now I am uncertain about my belonging as one of the few people of color in this community, recalling the times when it was these children, and me, and a sea of white faces. If those children's presence allowed the WP to think, "everything is okay, our community is not fed by white supremacy, because look, those 'rescued' children are here," and what that means for the safety of POC in these spaces. And while I still strive for and will champion the importance of compassion, I recognize the importance of fierce compassion, compassion balanced by accountability, how Kali is close kin to Quan Yin. My tolerance for white bullsh*t and people unwilling to examine their own privilege and biases is running very, very thin, and I feel called to deepen my commitment to the work of transforming both internalized and community/societal oppression.

Hippy from R267

Anyone else have ads for the hippie festivals popping up all over your feed after reading about this case. Had an ad for Nacho Bear himself.

Is there any evidence at all that Hannah and Devonte existed at all in recent months?

Yes, r272. Devonte has been going to the neighbors and asking for food in the days leading up to their final trip to CA. The neighbors reported them and they ran.

There was evidence of Devonte asking the dekalbs for food starting from March 15th for a week leading up to CPS visiting.. but not sure of Hannah

Do you think they were big potheads? That music newage crow are all potheads. Their friend defending them is.

Pot makes you depressed, irritable, and paranoid.

R 261

Especially once all those sweet income tax bennies are gone.

Starving Ciera Rose, just heartbreaking. If the other kids all looked this bad, had Hannah died?

They always went on the road and rehearsed the kids for CPS. So that trip was the usual pattern. What could not be talked away this time?

R 274

That's the same date as Jen's adoption obit... I mean, anniversary post.

None of those kids look near starvation IIRC they are underfed by US standards but all look healthy despite the skinny - hair, skin, teeth. There is the implication that the pictures stopped and a bona fide starvation campaign began ? This crazy woman JH stopped posting on FB as she starved her one daughter to death? She was planning to starve the others to death too, and then what? What would she say about their sudden disappearance? Would the hippies just not mention it so as not to harsh anyone’s mellow?

Devonte asked for six of everything so the kids were all living them. Did anyone ever count the number of bananas JH was holding in that store?

r25, not so fast. Maybe these fucked-up threads will continue to magnetize the cookie-cycling ghoul/troll crowd, and they'll stay the fuck away from everything else.

I am surprised Muriel hasn't noticed all the super-transparent "do you know if" trolls. You know, the ones that casually add bullshit like, "Have you heard the rumor that Lesbian Illuminati make hearty stock from the boiled bones of foster kids? I don't know if it's true, but I'm sure I read it somewhere and thought I'd better stop what I'm doing and type it here -- not that I personally have an agenda or anything."

r267 some of these people act like they have never been around kids before. My nieces and nephews hug me and though I love them I don't think they are some magical beings. Give me a fucking break.

R280 it certainly isn't the usual crowd. Used to wonder about the Websleuths complaints but I get it now.

[R259] thank you for reposting that picture of all the kids backstage somewhere -- i've only seen it on WS & wondering about it too. it never seems to come up in my Google searches. but. looks like maybe was taken around same time as the Blackberries photo? if anyone knows whether these photos were taken in 2017, please post... could the Backstage pic be the last photo taken of Hannah?

R275

I started taking pot for insomnia, and my anxiety has since plummeted, although I suppose I'm as irritable as usual. I tend toward depression as well, but it hasn't been worse than what's normal for me. Pot affects people in different ways. It can also depend on what strain you're using.

I think the backstage photo of the kids was taken during their 2 week stay at Alexandra A's house when she lived in SF. There is another photo of the kids w/ the Golden Gate in the background. It was during this stay that the pizza punishment happened. Afterwards, Alexandra reported her fears to OR child protective services.

Nahko Bear speaks of his family's heritage:

K: When did you start to integrate your roots in native american spirituality?

N: When I met my mom, and my grandma, in 2007. I knew that I had Native American roots here, and I also knew that my father was Filipino and Chamorro from Guam, but I didn’t know if I was puerto rican. But, when I met my mom it BOOM, cultural influence and everything, get ready. My grandmother is nuts.. My grandmother was Mescalero/Apache, and my mom’s dad was Puerto Rican. When I met my grandmother she lived for two years after I had met her and I really wish I had spent more time to get in her head about our people, but given the fact that she was nuts it was hard to get in her head about anything. And, my mom used to be a fancy dancer when she was a little girl, and none of them actually grew up on a reservation. There were pretty much in Portland and Klamath territory – Piute.

It was a part of their life, like my grandmother did beadwork and silverwork and stuff like that, and they were involved in different tribes in the northwest area, but neither of them really followed any of those spiritual practices of our tribe.

Hannah does not have healthy hair and teeth.

The attempts to get threads about a current event featuring 2 lesbians shut down on DL are funny. If you were a DLer you would skip or scroll. I have been here longer than you, promise. WTF?! You are not the hall monitor and your attempts to shut down discussion of this do nothing but shield those women, which at least one of you claims is not the goal, right.

The children were weighed in OR, only ONE of SIX was even on the chart for height or weight. That is more than skinny. The allegations of withholding food have followed them since MN.

I wonder if it’s the same person posting “the kids were just skinny by fat American standards” on FB and Websleuths, too.

In some photos, the kids look fine. In plenty of others they are skeletal. There is evidence of kwashiorkor, and you should never see a child’s upper ribs/sternum. The children were LITERALLY “off the charts” because they were so small/underweight. There were witnesses and reports of them being underfed.

They were starving at least part of the time. Please take your “fat American” bullshit and stuff it up your new age rectum.

This post was so over the top and the photo so implausibly staged - but the hippies, for the most part, ate it up...

Posted on 2/19/18 *I was hauling lumber to the garage and saw that these guys had a fire crackling in the back, so I popped over to warm up a bit.

Me: Hey, can I have a sip?

Bros: mischievous smirks at each other

J: You don't want to try this.

Me: ok?

D: It burns

Me: Oh. I'll wait until it cools then.

Bros: *guffaws*

J: Oh, it's plenty cool. *having a difficult time keeping a straight face* I didn't think you liked whiskey.

Me: 😑

Bros: *rolling on the ground*

Me: If I didn't know better, I'd think you really were drunk.

Bros: *snort laughing*

Me: What's really in there?

D: Hot *still laughing* cocoa

J: Can't wait to do this again when mom gets home from work.

6 teenagers, y'all. 6 teenagers. I'm gonna make it. 😆*

No steam coming out of the thermos? Holding a metal cup of hot liquid by the bottom? A snowball (too perfect to be real?) next to a fire pit? A partial book held by Jeremaih, partially shopped out?

Joking about the kids drinking when the did not even get to eat? Jenn may have been a drinker, it is common for unmedicated bi-polars and would explain some of the weight gain. She drank in the turn off before the cliff dive, rather than taking Benadryl herself after all.

The kids were so starved, like the Turpins, that they were not even going through puberty. They lived like toddlers, cut off from the world, never leaving the house, yet she pretends she is living the life of a typical parent of teens? The brand was becoming less and less plausible. I have seen some of the photos of the Turpins in the media - did they also attempt these ridiculous fantasy captions?

Wonder if Jenn was tangentially involved in the pot industry through the hippie friends like Nusheen/Ava? Was that part of the long road trips? The additional income would make their finances a bit more plausible. Protect the community meant what, exactly?

Those fake dialogues are as fake as the new age hippie bs speeches. They all speak in bullshit. A favorite word of these types is "authenticity" and they are all fake, fake, fake. Jargon, bs, peace and love but there is a lot of depression, nihilism, materialism, and pot smoking.

R290

Munchies= Jen's weight gain

Many Bi-polar people self-medicate with pot and/or alcohol.

Curious choice of food for a hike. Wonder if they got to eat any of it? So stagey!

With the news that Jenn went out and left them alone during the day, I wonder if some type of restraints or locks will be found? The Turpins chained the kids up, how did Jenn control them? Since Devonte ran to the DeKalbs, maybe he was left in charge, as the enforcer? Was the food locked up? Guess we may never know. Still holding out a faint hope that Devonte and Hannah may be found alive.

I wonder what Sarahs family thought of Jenn? In my extended family, some people who threw off a lot of red flags were embraced so as to not seem homophobic or racist. Had it been a same race opposite gender relationship, people would have said, run! Jenn had crazy eyes even in HS. Her family divorced at a bad time for a kid and it is more unusual for teen girls to want to live with their father. He described her acting out and breaking rules while he was at work, so she was sent back to the mom. Wonder if her mom is crazy too? One of the brothers is gay and lives in MN. Maybe he is the one posting that we should stop talking about the case? Who knows?

The shoplifting incident and sawing the nipples off the mannequins were real red flags too. The combo of crazy and extreme isolation and financial pressure is not a pretty one. The kids were there as an income source and as victims to control. So very sad.

Once Sarah was convicted it was kind of a sentence for the other 7, Jenn could never take the risk of putting them back in school. There are work from home jobs that pay, doing customer service, etc, not sure if a degree is required. I doubt she was actively educating the kids. It seems like she curated their brand and wrote her faux deep crap, and likely smoked up and drank. Not much of a life. MN even required services while Sarah was on probation but the women were angry and not interested in changing.

This photo is one of the only times Jenn looks genuinely happy and not to be super aware of posing.

If they fed the kids normally, given the big mortgage, did they have enough $ to make ends meet? The vehicles were old and would need to be replaced. The cost of living in Portland was super high. Were they still getting $ for Markis? Will not be surprised to hear that the financial situation was not great.

Lots of comments here...

OR should have followed up and required records from the doctor 6 months later. If they were not bigger and heavier that would be evidence supporting removal. If they had to be fed to prevent losing the money from TX, win/win. Sarah affirmatively liked to OR and said that they were following up. Too much weight was given to words, those of the parents, the kids, etc. That 5/6 were NOT EVEN ON THE CHARTS for height or weight said it all. If the doctor wanted more than 1 datapoint to cya, it should have been required.

Every time there was CPS contact, the situation of the kids worsened. Removal by TX worsened their situation. Conviction by MN worsened their situation. There are so few good answers when it comes to kids. Support services for extended family to take them used to be the norm but the financial incentives now seem to cut differently. Many group homes are hell holes and many foster parents are in it for the $. At least many states preclude foster parents from home schooling. The adoption agency they used is out of business but the heads are still active in making $ off the misery of kids. Tragic all around.

AS IF those kids would be allowed hot chocolate. AS IF they’d be allowed to sit on their lazy black asses while Jen hauled lumber. Ha.

R290, I’ve read that growers pay good money for trimmers. Maybe Jen had herself a nice little work force... She made those kids work for food at Boggs’ food pantry/farm. Why wouldn’t she put them to work for growers for some actual profit $$$?

Agree, R297, otherwise the $ just does not add up. Would fit with the road trips, the pot community being some of their most vehement defenders and with the exhortations to protect the community. Jojo got that message out quick and MN crowd was quiet as could be except for the repetitive talking points.

These kids were literally treated like slaves while Jenn cloaked herself as a white savior and crusader for racial justice. The hypocrisy of such types is unreal.

Do you think someone will write about and research the details? Something beyond the rushed true-crime type book?

Guess it depends on how much can be discovered, R299?

Heartwarming photo. Devonte would have been 11. Based on the caption, it appears to be Peter Yarrow of protest singing fame.

Wholesome!

Jenn was a starfucker one step removed with the sleaziest of dudes.

There are photos of him and young girls all over his FB.

It was in the news quite a bit the same year as the photo with his hands around Devontes throat

How could she think that was a good photo? He looks like he is choking him.

Damn! Those hippy types are serious with their free love. I can't help but fear what those kids went through, especially the ones who were not the favorites. I hope the two missing got away, but now I am worried that after CPS tried to reach them Jen might have punished the two "snitches" on the family and killed them, maybe accidentally. After hiding the bodies that might have been when she knew the gig was up and did the murder-suicide. She would have no way to explain the two missing kids, especially Devonte. Does anyone find it strange their hasn't been much info put out by the police on what they found in the house?

Yeah, will there be more info, or is it case solved, so that is it?

He is a famous hippie icon, R305! That is all that mattered to Jenn.

Just another sleazy guy for her to try to get attention from using the kids. Jenn had Daddy issues. Her fixation on this dude, Nacho, Max, Jojo, David Chilly Love, etc is striking.

Black Hills Unity Concert 2014

Nacho and Peter Yarrow - sleazy pot meet sleazy kettle

So much for Devonte hanging all over shirtless adults being wholesome. Thousands of hugs on command? Free hugs to me seems to distinguish them from those that are not free, otherwise why not just indicate -- Hugs?

Bethany Yarrow is the daughter of Peter Yarrow.

According to NYT: EVER since Bethany Yarrow could walk, she has marched for peace, a family tradition. Her father is Peter Yarrow, a member of the folk trio Peter, Paul and Mary and a tireless political activist.

It all sounds so great on paper, yet Yarrow and Hart did not respect the basic human rights of children to be safe from predatory and exploitative adults. To be safe in their own bodies. Nacho is a self-admitted misogynist. They are all simply poseurs and narcissists.

The photo at r300 is sinister. What the actual fuck.

R306, I agree. It’s too much coincidence that the whistleblowers’ bodies haven’t been found. I think one or both of them died before the trip. They are probably dumped somewhere near the Naselle stop.

Peter Yarrow goes around speaking at schools about bullying. For reals. Bet Woodster wishes he could get in on that. Yarrow was CONVICTED. Gives him a lot of access. He also has a 14 year old granddaughter. Same age as the girl he was convicted for sexually assaulting.

Jenn posted the kids dancing to Joni Mitchell and Cat Stevens. She must have been creaming her jeans to snap and watermark a shot of Yarrow choking Devonte.

His fingertips are pressing in and he is covering it with his other hand. Devonte is grimacing. WTAF?!

Glorifying convicted kiddie diddlers, posting lots of shots of ween tDevonte and Jeremiah in underpants, the hanging on high, half naked men on command, the freak rambling on about weightless Abi and her massages, it is all DARK AS FUCK.

The racial overtones of that photo are astonishing.

Not only did Jenn post it, Bethany, who I believe is a parent herself, embraced the photo and rambled on about empowering youth.

Nothing like white allies, eh? White saviors and kiddie diddlers can do as they please?

The love and light crowd thought the image was just groovy... right on man, eh?

Who is a bigger fraud?

Jenn Hart - white savior and black child murderer

Nacho Bear - Native American by way of the Phillipines

Peter Yarrow - political activist and convicted child molester

I vote for a tie between all 3, with poor Devonte like a pass around party favor between them.

Why stop with his hands when he could have joked around with a noose? WTF?!!!

So this is why websleuths has so many rules about what posters can say

I haven't had this much fun since the Casey Anthony trial!

R317, I’m part of the FB group, which really doesn’t have those strict rules and it’s fine.

And anyway, the rules are very unevenly enforced at WS. Tricia/mods let a lot slide if they feel like it.

There are a lot of photos of adult men being handsy with the Hart kids as tweens and teens (when they looked far younger). This choking picture (which looks racist AF) must have been meant as a joke, still odd. Nacho often looks high as a kite around the kids and he himself says that is pretty typical. There are the posts about weightless Abi giving massages and David Chilly Love and young Ciera cuddling (or something). One task of parents is to teach kids appropriate boundaries. It is even more important if kids have RAD. I do not think these kids do/did since Devonte is often verbally prompted to hang on men. Jenn may have been a lesbian but she was a star fucker by proxy for well known men. Those kids and their boundaries did not matter if it got her attention and validation. This guy is a convicted child molester, cool. Like Sarah was a convicted child abuser. It was all groovy, love and light though, right? Human filth dressed up with a bow is still garbage. These kids were not props or pets or some minstrel show to be trotted around and pawed by sex offenders. If there is a hell, I hope those sick bitches are in it. The sheer exploitation in the Yarrow photo and the tacit agreement to ignore the racial overtones by fake woke Jenn and the fake yoke Yarrows is just awful. It was not lost on Devonte, it is clear on his face. Their racism was not lost on Hannah either. I hope they find those 2 alive or at least they get a decent burial. Who knows what that sick bitch did? Or was capable of?

Dressing Devonte as King Tut was marginally less dehumanizing than the very loaded ZEBRA costume.

The time that they were adopting was th

The time that they were adopting was the height of the GAYBY boom, yet it seems neither wanted to try to get pregnant. Guess their own spawn would not offer an income from the State of TX.

Jen said she couldn't, but Jen said a lot of things.

Jen also brought up Cancer inflicted upon her as a trial but didn't make clear who had it and what kind. Maybe it was an invention of her mind., but it was in THE LIST OF BITCHING on FB. Poor Sarah was so sick she maybe needed to go to the hospital [instead of a road trip off a cliff] according to the 3:AM mystery text. So was this some sort of Munchausen fantasy of Jens or was something really going on there?

And since when did they start going to doctors that could actually diagnose something besides Eye of Newt deficiency or ears in need of candling?

I think the dog or cat had cancer.

The dog got medical care. It could not reveal secrets while in the presence of an adult not Jenn or Sarah.

Jen Hart September 6, 2017 ·

This week has been intense in a myriad of ways. The day before the Eagle Creek fire started, our eldest dog slipped down the last few steps of the stairs. She was shaking and unable to walk at first. She's 13 and has had a few small slips this past year due to her decreasing mobility, but she has been able to rest a day and bounce back to normal. This time was different. Kylie was completely unable to walk, very shaky, and just kept collapsing to the right when I attempted to assist her. I had no idea if anything was broken, sprained, if she had experienced a small seizure, stroke, or if we were that close to saying goodbye. I had to carry her 75lb body outside to go to the bathroom, and up and down the stairs so she could always be by my side. While her body wasn't cooperating, it was very evident that her mind was still intact and that she wanted to be able to do all the things she normally would. When we finally were able to get her into the vet, she ruled out any bone breaks and told us she was likely suffering from canine idiopathic vestibular disease - which sounded daunting in the moment. Thankfully, they were rather confident that she would shake out of it after a week or so. Her head is still slightly tilted to the side due to imbalance she's experiencing, but after 5 days of round-the-clock care, she's finally able to walk on her own again. Small bouts of dizziness still occur, but she's back to her usual spunky 13 year old self. She's very much enjoying the extra pampering she's getting from everyone to boot. Devonte has been reading The Art and Science of Fire Management to her the past two days while taking breaks to massage her leg muscles. Life has been intense, but I'm thankful for moments like these.

Jen Hart Fb post

Has anyone ever seen a house with a lot of kids furnished like a single grandma lived there? 8 people and a lot of animals, including pooping chickens and this is the furniture? When I first saw it I thought it was from one of the visits elsewhere. I knew someone growing up where the kids were not allowed in the formal living room, but the Hart houses were not that big for 8 people, 7 of whom did not go outside.

Re the dog - Is laying on an elderly, injured animal really a kind thing to do?

If I was a parent of six kids no way would i have white furniture or rugs in the house, that self congratulatory post above just reeks of bullshit. If i had been her facebook friend i would have called her out.

[R285] the photo of the kids at GG Bridge is from their visit w Alexandra Argyropoulos. that was a few years ago and they were visibly younger, also Markis still had longer hair. i keep comparing the Blackberries and the Backstage photos and am convinced they were taken much more recently, both around the same time. Sierra, Jeremiah & Markis look the same, or nearly, in both. But i can't find where anyone has identified the year those pix were taken, and i very much do feel that the Backstage photo may be the final picture to include Hannah.

Also, [R300] ... what the hell is going on in that photo! i cannot stand what i am seeing there - that is no "friendly embrace" - Yarrow is clearly squeezing Devonte's neck with his fingers while keeping the guilty hand somewhat hidden by the other. anyone who's ever experienced DV choking knows ...

That picture was posted by someone from The AM and I think that was her house. I can’t find her Instagram again, nor can I remember her name. She deleted a lot of pictures when this first happened, but left all of the ones with the kids.

If I find it again, I’ll post it.

The blackberries photo is from the WA house, so in the past year. Hannah went to the neighbors in the fall, I think, so she was alive then. To see photos of her over the years in the same outfits is so sad.

Jenn, lesbian or not, seemed to project her self hatred most onto the girls and her rage at men onto Markis.

There are women who are in relationships with women simply because they are not men, who they hate and fear, often due to abuse in childhood. Jenn and her orientation toward attention from straight men is one for the books regardless of what she calls herself. Sarah always had to be the made up pretty pretty princess (even in her mugshot!) and the poor tomboy foster daughter Lee got a department store makeover that she did not want. In contrast, the 3 adopted girls were the ones documented as having been beaten or assaulted and to have matted hair. Hannah said they were racists and that sure seems to played a role. Jenn expressing her ardor for married straight women is further proof of her instability and delusions. She and Sarah were yoked by their shared criminal exposure, ever since MN.

The caption from the Peter Yarrow chocking picture is astonishing, these social media relationships were like mutual masturbation and utterly meaningless. The fawning is ludicrous, Jenn Hart reminds everyone else of the depths of human depravity and duplicitousness, Bethany. But when you father is a kiddie diddler, perhaps you do not grow up to be a good judge of character.

The photos of Yarrow and Nacho performing are like 2 drunks in on a good con, smirking at each other.

Think Yarrow came from a Laurel Canyon type background like many musicians in his day. There is a lot of generational perving on kids in that military/intel crowd.

Yarrow, Jim Morrison and others held out as counterculture musicians actually came from military and intelligence backgrounds. There is a high rate of generational perving on kids in that crowd.

Him going into schools and glorifying him for his trumped up pretext is putting the fox in the hen house.

Surprised that R. Kelly has not come up with some similar anti-bullying schtick to get into middle schools. Close friend of Bryan Singer, Sir Ian, does something similar in the UK. Pete Townsend may as well. Hiding in plain sight seems to get them accolades.

Devonte around boys his age - his elbow is bigger than his upper arm.

The OR doctor who saw that 5/6 were not even on the charts for height or weight should face some type of repercussion.

Portland seems like a strategic choice after the criminal conviction in MN. If CPS had repeatedly followed up the women could have mobilized a lot of people to defend their family from purported racism and homophobia, as has happened even AFTER THEY KILLED THE KIDS. They were there for a few years after the 2013 investigation, the move to WA seems to be timed due to Jenn inheriting money to buy a house. With the OR investigation having been years earlier, wonder what triggered her flight from social media and increased isolation around the time of the move?

Looking at the photo of the boys and Devonte, these festivals were such white environments, in such white states. These kids were almost never around POC who looked like them. When they were, say the woman who offered to help the women learn how to care for the hair of the girls, the POC were rebuffed. They seemed to see through the facade more readily and did not fawn over the kids being trotted around like exotic pets. The kids were better off in T

TX

So tragic that extended family fought legally to raise three of them.

Parents do not post pics of their tweens in underwear online with public settings. Most parents do not have their tweens sitting on laps of unrelated men or giving thousands of strangers, many half dressed, hugs, on command. I think the sunglasses were chosen to hide the pain in the eyes of the kids. Starvation and exploitation hurt.

Jenn had her very own minstrel show. Sick bitch.

Does feminist theory condone punching, waterboarding and starving young girls? Everything is so staged, FAKE and pretentious.

R333 Her closed off paranoia did seem to rapidly escalate with purchase of her splitlevel and biglot, you'd think this achievement unlocked would have her various pinterest pageants in full glory. But I think she was really hurt and humiliated - and frightened- by the Counterpunch criticism that got shared around everywhere. For one thing, the author totally had her number, and for another, her go to method of controlling people catching on to her was to cut them off. S o she was trying to cut off criticism, long after the internet moved right along as it usually does - The wicked flee when no man pursueth.

Her love and light family theatricals seen through and disparaged, and she was held up as the opposite of a Hero - and willing to call her an abuser, which she was. She knew somewhere in there what she was - and must have seen spies behind every blackberry bush.

The hapless Dekalbs said the kids were not only never playing outside, but ran - RAN - from the Yukon to the house and vice versa if anyone went out.

Staged photos are common. Check out all the mommy bloggers on Instagram. Kids are used as props. Also fake and pretentious. Jenn was apping them

Agree, r338. As with the Turpins, there was a tipping point. Although I think Jen was always misogynist and abusive.

And, like a broken record, I keep saying that there was something very wrong with the way Devonte was always in very close physical contact with grown men.

I’m a woman, so I can’t really know what it’s like to be a young man in that environment. I certainly don’t think that all physical contact between men is homoerotic. But I am surrounded by 12-year old boys, and their typical expression of physical contact amongst themselves is playful punching and shoving. And direct contact in sports. They don’t hug each other or pick each other up. And they don’t do anything like that with adult males.

Maybe some of you can speak to that.

R337, That is all left wing poseur propaganda, not feminist. "Socialist feminist" means women shut their mouths for "socialism."

Aside from neglect and abuse and murder, it is a disturbing mixture of "social media" look-at-me fake life and new-age-SJW look-at-me-fake personality of poseur politics and phony peace and love pretension

The new age SJW set is very fake and nasty

What drove her crazy was that people were angrily saying the Devonte photo was fake at the time!

It turned out to be fake! Not exactly in the way the people criticizing it thought, but there was a more disturbing fakery about it

Keep posting photos, some of us are not on Facebook. Thanks.

I think some of them wanted to"protect the community" because this is a crack seeing into how fake it all is

R343

And she was being called out in the most public way, as a bad mother, contemptible, even wicked. Which she was all three of those things. And knew it.

R345, Good one. I wonder if she read it. That would have driven her insane. She is the target of that article. It's attacking her whole idea/project about herself and the kids.

Aside from the neglect/abuse, when Jen wrote those bullshit posts, she couldn't really carry it off...The writer of this article is obviously better educated and has a better sense of how people are thinking about these issues today (and how to write). It's like Jen WAS in the 1960s, with her not-quite-getting things in the way she wrote, the empty jargon and missing a lot - perhaps that could have passed in the 60s.

If she didn't read this one, I remember others were saying stuff along these lines. Jen didn't get it in a lot of ways.

I think it is sad Devonte was worried about a cop killing him, when he really just needed to worry about his mom killing him.

I don’t think it is Jen buying bananas at Safeway. Just doesn’t look like her. Does anyone agree?

The Counterpunch essay was smart. I wonder if Jen did read it. Well it didn’t make a dent, if she did.

I don't think it looks like her, either, R348. Just another weird detail to this story.

#Pray4Devonté

R343

Some people saw through it for what it was — white people pimping out a black kid for social justice accolades and more specifically in a very white “all lives matter”, “why can’t we get along”, “I don’t see color” kind of way. It was mostly black commenters online who responded to the photo for what it actually was, and their response clarified for me why my gut reaction to the photo was a skeeved out feeling. I don’t think anyone imagined how bad the situation was though, but most attention-seeking parents don’t starve or beat their kids.

It was Jen at the Safeway. She used her rewards card for that transaction and the clothing is the same as the body recovered. Those ugly patterned leggings on her fat ass.

It was her.

She'd gained a ton of weight, stopped lightening/dyeing her hair, and was wearing glasses that make her newly bloated facial features look even less like her older pics. I guess the star trek gaming guild life takes a toll. Her gut is blown up which suggests maybe she had more drinks than the last drinks on a regular basis for a while.

The woman in Safeway used the card belonging to Jenn Hart, that is, what she, in fact, looked like IRL, not staged photos. She had gained weight and was hanging by a thread. The manic grin and Stepford Wife grooming were absent.

Devonte AND Hannah are both still missing. Hope they are alive somewhere...

Wow, that was some essay!

R91 that was my first thought while reading Jenn’s Post too. I’ve had to live with depression for most of my life now and I’ve also had to deal with suicidal thoughts enough times for me to know a thinly veiled suicide letter when I see one.

I followed a link from FB to WS, there was an interesting post by someone who uses photo editing quite a bit. She points out photos of the kids and of Sarah where editing was applied. When the area is zoomed in on, it appears to be bruised.

I noticed that Jenn seemed to photoshop the chickens in, you can seen the alteration if you zoom. No way they were pooping in that pristine ivory colored living room, so her it would not surprise me that she cleaned up evidence of her beat downs. She got sloppy with images, if you look at the fake scene with the boys at the fire pit, it appears that Jeremiah is holding a book, but most of it is missing.

There is a photo of Sarah and the kids at some Goonies thing, Sarah is in a short skirt and has a large bruise on her thigh. In one of the photos highlighted by the photographer as being altered, Sarah has bruising on her face. Jenn looks to have a red area under her eye, maybe they both got into it? I do not have the greatest resolution on this screen, so curious what others think?

I wonder if Devonte and Hannah will ever be found? I think when they went north it was to some Goonies house? The whole trip seemed like a best moments of the Hart family kind of thing. In the past they had fled CPS and gone on trips to rehearse. It is certainly possible that they were in the car and washed away. Or maybe they were elsewhere and that is why driving off a cliff seemed like a good option to Jenn?

She did sound like she was in a very dark place in that long post. And recent posts were odd, a fake looking snowball next to a supposed crackling fire pit? Maybe she was losing the plot a bit, the kids sure seemed to be becoming more desperate and she was tightening the screws. I still think that finances had to play a role. Also, it is possible that Sarah was having an affair or Jenn perceived it that way - she definitely had an SOS signal arranged with the woman who called 911. That is what drove Aunt Diane full out bonkers.

Oh for pity's sake, R359. They didn't go to some goonie's house. They are in the ocean.

You read that wrong, R360. The FAMILY drove north to the town where the house from the Goonies is located, where they had previously been for events, ere are articles and photos from past years. Their travel was documented with cell phone pings. There was speculation upthread that the trip north was to dump bodies somewhere. I think revisiting that Goonies location, the beach glass beach, etc, was purposeful, kind of revisiting happier memories, but maybe they always did that kind of stuff while coaching the kids for CPS?

r345 that really nails what we have been posting here. Thanks for the link.

The posters with added conspiracy bs are almost as troubling as the hippies that enabled these women. Why isnt the obvious fact that all 6 teens perished in a full tide enough for them? They sound like Shitolini in the ..... oh never mind.

WS thread just got shut down by moderator citing conspiracies & bickering as reasons for closure. R363, you just mentioned conspiracy bs too. guess i'm confused, what are these conspiracy theories being talked about??

I just went to see what was happening at Websleuths and discovered.....garbage detail!

[quote]At festivals, they could have been paying their way by working on cleanup crews

So the kids not only had to do chores at their own house, they had to be janitors at the festivals (in addition to hugging and massaging strangers on demand)?!

THATS the conspiracy theory that got the WS thread shut down? O_okayyyy

I agree with the poster stating the OR physician be held accountable for not reporting the kids underweight and height

[quote]THATS the conspiracy theory that got the WS thread shut down? O_okayyyy

No, just something that people from DL would understand.

.....

There is a photo of the slightly older kids with big black trash bags so that might be where the idea of cleanup crew came from, no idea They were not paying for tickets for that big group. No idea what the details were.

Beloved is the festival with direct Osho ties, R370.

Beloved was founded by Osho adherents and includes sexuality workshops.

The blue gloves may be a Rajneesh thing, dude ran a sex cult but was a germophobe who pushed the use of condoms and gloves.

Several folks were wearing a blue glove in the full Hart Visions image.

In the pics of the older kids with trash bags, they were not wearing gloves.

Protect the community - the MN crowd got the word from on high early and have been quiet as can be.

R357

It does have that vibe, doesn't it? Another semi-interesting detail is the repeated and ALLCAPS emphasis on the word "Celebrate" which is a big o' Osho buzzword ,with some unsettling connotations if one view the letter in the "goodbye letter" light, as death is one of those things that's supposed to be "celebrated." I really don't know how directly Jen Hart ever fell into Osho teachings, but she hung on to some hangers on, and the lingo and concepts and aphorisms were everywhere around.

I observed Osho culty stuff nfused in all the 2010's posturing with Buddhas and meditations and the creepy kid's musicale on SoundClloud and the Sarah birthday adventure video. I don't know if she was really hard into that or if its just something that rubs off if you are in an Oregon Festival scene and that's your peer group.

R376

Like this:

Also this:

Creepy. That is openly creepy at R377.

If you ever met this crowd you notice an undercurrent of nihilism and depression under all the flowery bs.

Devonte laying on top of Jay Lash at Beloved.

Devonte sure was passed around by the men.

Anyone familiar with the heart and wings symbol? It was left at the crash site and has popped up elsewhere.

That looks like a forced smile at R381. Who would want their kid near such a strange-looking guy?

Reminded me of the forced smile with convicted pedo Peter Yarrow, with his hands around his neck.

Here is the same symbol of a heart with wings. Someone left it at the crash site, too.

This is the moment that the card above refers to, it was on an earlier thread. Devonte would have been 9 or 10 but looks much younger due to his size. The costume is very feminizing. His distress is uncomfortable to watch. Jenn can often be heard audibly commanding these physical interactions with male performers. Bringing the card to another Rudd show is using your kid to be a starfucker by proxy.

They symbol seems to be related to Osho, but what does it mean, specifically? Anyone?

The whole intends to do something through you? Huh? Is that why the kids as a group or Devonte were treated as mascots at best or some kind of totems?

It is a Sufi symbol that was co-opted by Osho/Rajneesh.

Not sure why it would be used in the card to Xavier Rudd?

I think the photo with Jojo Lash was at Shangri-La?

What is the deal with the ones who add Love to their names?

David Chilly Love is one. He is said to be making a shrine to the Harts in his home. His roommate posted that she needed to find a new place to live to create a space for it. He traveled from MN and left a heart with wings and other items in an alter at the crash site.

One or more of Jenns brothers (the one who lives in Minneapolis) and her aunt seem heavily involved with the Osho affiliated crowd. The aunt supposedly asked Nusheen/Ava to be a spokesperson for the family.

R387

". . . the heart is between soul and body"

or, as it sometimes happens, "trapped between the roof and the seats in the rear of the vehicle."

R 389 Do you have a link or source for Jenn's brother and aunt being heavily involved with Osho?

Guess there were kits/gloves left over...no idea what wearing one would symbolize. I have seen gloves blown up to entertain kids as balloons, but this was not that. In the photo it looks like two adult men and two young boys are each wearing one. Do not want to think about the kids in these environments and how they were groomed to be very touchy with adults, both the boys and the girls.

Jenn posted about toking up to manage her anxiety. Surely it did not help her paranoia. Wonder if she was in business in some way with Nusheen?

The aunt supposedly asked Nusheen to function as a family spokesperson. The brother is very close to David Chilly Love. He may have moved in with DCL following the crash according to the post of the roommate forced to move out suddenly. DCL travelled from MN to CA to create an altar at the crash site. With the exhortations to protect the community and the total silence from MN after Uncle Jojo decreed not talking with the media, there are a lot of dots to connect. There are direct ties between Beloved and Osho followers, for example. Not saying that everyone who attends festivals is in a cult, but there was/is a subculture. Protect the community has been the mantra from on high and it has been followed. Think what you wish.

Poster @389 please divulge how you know about Jen's family being involved in Osho

Not what was said, R394.

heavily involved with the Osho affiliated crowd

Dark, yet funny, R390.

We won’t ever know, but I still think it was really hinky the way Devonte was always in close physical contact with grown men all the time.

Someone said it was because he craved a male role model, but I don’t think that was it. When I think of all the fatherless boys/men I know, NONE of their mothers would have allowed that creepy fondling. There are other ways to “teach a boy to be a man”... (whatever that means).

Abi giving men massages was not about her learning to be a man...

2013 = 10 yrs old

R376 yes!!! That and the part where she wrote: “I'm immensely grateful to the people that have opened their hearts and shared time, talents, and love with this family. I couldn’t be more in awe of all the people that choose to CELEBRATE this life with us. The thousands of people that have shared a hug, a dance, a story, a laugh, a meal, a cry, a word of encouragement, a smile, a song ~thank you for joining us on this shared journey. ”

This part in particular stuck out at me because it sounds like she is saying her “goodbyes” (like you said). Sadly, I think this is the point in time when she made the plan to drive off the cliff. It just sounds so final to me.

I have been wanting to ask this since Thread One: HOW do you pronounce Markis?

Is it MAR-cus, or more like mar-KEES?

Also, he looks part Hispanic imo, but maybe he just got the straight hair from the white side of his genetics?

R401, I always assumed it was just like “Marcus”.

R398, good point. Well, maybe Devonte was most photographed, and all the kids were manhandled.

Jen Hart seems to have saved Oregon some money. Not acting in 2013 was part of a pattern of not acting. It might not even have made a difference if CPS had actually mandated follow-up pediatrician visits.

"Damages would also punish the workers and the agency that treated the vulnerable children in their care with deliberate indifference, the suit says. This is at least the third time since 2004, in cases involving at least five children, that youngster placed in foster care by Oregon child welfare workers ended up suffering from life-threatening starvation."

Two older kids got away, thanks to a relentless advocate. But "After the older children were out of the Yateses' control, they disclosed that Danielle Yates had denied them food under the guise of discipline. When a child protective services worker investigated, Yates admitted she locked up food to prevent the children from "stealing" it.

"n response, the younger children's caseworker decided to put in place a "safety plan" for how the Yateses would better treat the 1- and 2-year-old still in their care.

That is contrary to DHS policy; "safety plans" are used to allow biological parents to keep custody of their own children despite concerns. Foster parents, certified by the state as qualified to care for children, aren't supposed to need "safety plans."

The system does not work. These kids are the lowest on the hierarchy so they are vulnerable. And there are too many to deal with so they just get farmed out.

Same article linked in 405:

" Caseworkers need to make sure children can feel safe providing honest answers. That requires expertise and also requires giving children a place to speak privately.

The 15-year-old foster child who was moved from the Yates home told her caseworker she couldn't tell the truth in the home because Danielle Yates would listen in and punish her later."

This really makes me want to CELEBRATE the folks at CPS in Oregon sideways with some bllue gloves.

R401

He barely looks mixed race. Maybe that's part of why Jenn treated him so harshly? He wasn't "ethnic" enough to be part of the Magical Negro troupe.

Rajneesh was not big on kids or on kids being around. He did not want them in the culty compound in OR. So the Magic Negro Minstrel thing was something else.

How long before the cliff dive did Jenn post that? The choice of words seems very significant in that circle. So does adding Love to your name, Hart must have seemed like an amazing coincidence.

I cannot read too much posted by he hippies but they seemed to see Devonte as some sort of significant figure. Maybe they think he is a reincarnated spirit or that he will reincarnate? Even in the post by the pervy old folks singers daughter, from years ago, she wrote something like --the world thanks you for him-- uh, huh?

Markis and Hannah seemed far more aggressively starved too, interesting point about appearances. Maybe. Hannah called them racists to the DeKalbs. Markis said something to someone along the lines of waiting until everyone was finished eating to see if there was food left for him. Wish Sarah and Jenn were still alive so they could be starved then fed to fire ants. It would still be too good for what they did to 6 human beings.

R409 It was posted March 15 of this year. That's about the same day if not the same day Devonte went over the wall so to speak to ask for food.

R409 I saw D. compared to this guy by more than one of that Osho-shish bunch.

That's Amma, the "hugging saint" I said guy, but she's a she.

Devonte was a big and specific focus of the culty crew.

Tubby Love, commented on this post. Far from tubby, he is actually a thin and creepy looking mofo otherwise known as Jay Lash or Uncle Jojo. He is the one who put the lock down on the festival crowd and MN crowd speaking to the media except for selected people using talking points. He seems to carry a fair bit of weight with them as the edict was pretty much complied with. What is the deal with all these folks calling themselves Love? Means something, but what? Is it some kind of ranking thing?

They were said to travel mostly sleeping in the car to save $.

Interesting that the FB doom on post was when D upped his escape plan. Wonder if her behavior changed or if she said alarming things. Just awful to think of the life these kids had, the pain of hunger and the constant fear.

Jenn seemed to start up the online gaming around the time that Hannah jumped out a 2nd story window and bolted for the neighbors. Distraction is one thing but the pot and booze likely did not help Jenns mental health or paranoia. It is so weird the coincidences with the Nacho songs though too. Did they or others think they were acting out or living out some hippy culty narrative arc?

They were so little but Jenn was beating the first set black and blue before they even acquired the other 3. They deserved to be safe and loved and to get to grow up.

Do not judge a book by its cover sure applies re the Hart family. Love, light and knocked out teeth.

A woman posted this exchange with Jenn shortly after the murders, no date available. It could have been old and just resonating then?

They all talk about meeting in dreams. Max posted about meeting Jenn Hart in a dream after the murders, others have too. Is that some Osho/Rajneesh concept?

Guess Sarah was a lipstick lez, lol.

This was posted by the friend who posted the oceans apart message exchange with Jenn.

The woman who posted the instant message recently spent a year in India. If not Rajneesh, something similar, perhaps? She was part of the tribe that seemed to move between Hawaii and Oregon.

How do these people pay their bills?!

R417 I don't know about this person, but I get the impression some are trust fund kids.

I know that the Osha group were into guiltless free love among adults , but did that include kids?

Don't you think some of the festival people would have been curious as to why they gave Devonte so much attention while virtually ignoring other kids? I feel so sorry for the 19 year old. Ignored, last to eat. His life must have been hell, as well as the others who didn't get attention from their moms or the festival goers while watching everyone make over Devonte.

(None of the women who made allegations were identified by name in the documents.)

According to one allegation, Jennifer viewed the children as “animals” before they were adopted and said she thought of herself “as their savior.”

According to another allegation, Jennifer was also “controlling in her relationship with Sarah,” as well as manipulative and cold to the children.

The couple would target certain children for mistreatment, according to one allegation, but they favored Devonte, who became famous after a photo of him hugging an officer at a 2014 police reform rally went viral.

Well, I’m glad the mainstream media hasn’t dropped this case yet.

The neighbor posted this on a FB group. She and others are trying to prod a search using SAR dogs in areas other than the crash site. Maybe it is a resource issue that it has not happened yet? There did not appear to be evidence that the missing 2 were in the car. Seems odd that the 2 who went off the reservation for help were the bodies not found. Could just be a coincidence though. The Nov call referenced was the call about Hannah, I think.

I talked to a commander at my house yesterday regarding the Nov phone call, but asked this question, he said there had been no search. I told him I didn't think the two kids were in the Yukon. I asked if they would do that with dogs, look in homeless camps, put out flyers, ask the media to share missing children posters!

Max Ribner is doing the right thing re: Hannah and Devonte, for whatever reason, after some prompting, but he does have reach on his social media. From FB today:

Max Ribner Follow · 10 hrs ·

There is a search happening for Devonte & Hannah. Please share this especially to our friends that live near the coast line.

Also, please use the comment section with mindfulness.

Thank you.

Recent photo of missing kids, ages 15 & 16

I can see why the neighbor described Hannah as looking about 7 (also the missing front teeth would be typical of that age) and described Devonte as not looking proportionate. The doctor in OR who punted when only 1 of 6 was on the chart for height or weight should face sanctions. It seems things had gotten worse of late re the withholding food, even for the golden child. His head looks way too big for his body.

It is just heartbreaking. They deserve to be found and given a decent burial, or found and given a good home. SAR around the house and in places identified on the FBI bulletin needs to happen.

[quote]Also, please use the comment section with mindfulness.

That sounds sketchy.

Every single picture, that poor child with her teeth knocked out smiles with her mouth closed. That gets to me, photo after photo. No one questioned this bullshit?! I really hate these culty people. That Tubby Love guy is fucking skeevy/shady/pervy looking as HELL.

R378 Hare Krishna meets Up With People...

I studied mystically Judaism and was told that they believe the dead communicate with you in dreams. They had 3 types of those dreams defined. Also living people communicate with you this way they believe.

Take a look at this site only for the photos. Wild, outrageous theories but is there a grain of truth in some of it? There are a lot of pictures of the Harts that I hadn't seen including one of Hannah with her teeth knocked out.

R412 Oh, I like her. She gives Hershey Kisses as well as hugs just like my mother.

R429 I'm about 1/3 of the way through this site. There is a really disturbing part about the owners of the organic farm where the Hart kids picked produce. Could it be true?

[quote]There is a really disturbing part about the owners of the organic farm where the Hart kids picked produce.

Just tell us what it is, please. I’m not wading through all that conspiracy crap.

R432 You have to look at the pictures of the husband and wife. Type in "Boggs" and it will take you to the farm couple. The husband butchered animals at the farm and reportedly drank their blood. Wife pictured with a gun. Photo of husband w/ naked men holding farm tools covering their genitals.

The author of the website was a young Black Panther in Oakland during Huey Newton's time. Lots of crazy stuff but there are a bunch of photos I hadn't seen before. Also, he talks about the pedo rings in Ft. Bragg and MN.

[quote] The husband butchered animals at the farm

You clearly did not grow up on a farm to exhibit surprise over this one.

R434 Both of my parents grew up on farms. My mother said that when it came to having to kill animals for food, they traded their animals w/ neighbors, so you wouldn't have to eat animals that you knew.

None of my relatives drank the blood of the animals they killed for food.

The organic farmers were dealing w/ a vegetarian (or vegan as Jen claims) family. The Boggs' photos are bizarre. Not the Heart to Heart, all peace and love vibe at all.

[quote] My mother said that when it came to having to kill animals for food, they traded their animals w/ neighbors, so you wouldn't have to eat animals that you knew.

This is bullshit.

R436 So you are the authority on how my mother's family butchered their farm animals?! Asshole! My father's family didn't do it but my mother's did.

Interesting, thanks, R428.

I obviously cannot attest to your mother’s experience, but for you to extrapolate that farmers habitually do not butcher their own animals in the United States (as opposed to the UK), is ridiculous from the point of view of someone like myself who grew up in a rural area. Similarly, women posing with guns is not unusual in rural environments, though I’ll grant you I’ve never heard nor seen of drinking animal blood in a farming context. That said, I think you’re speculating quite a bit (bordering on libel) about the “odd” farmers in order to make it fit some bizarre Websleuths pet narrative.

The farmers were vehement that the kids would have asked for help had anything been wrong. Even Max Ribner is backing off that stance. Seemed odd. Why not just say RIP or something?

A slew of folks did not add the word Love to their names for no reason. That is a key to the community they are all being exhorted to protect.

Some people say that they attend the festivals with kids and do family centric things. The Hart kids were up against the stage surrounded by high adults or on stage, at night, surrounded by high (in his own description by Nacho) performers. They had very few physical boundaries with adults and it was NOT RAD. Devonte often has to be verbally commanded or prompted to hug Nacho, Rudd, etc. He often appears visibly upset. The lives that these kids led were brutal, far too short and creepy as hell. Love and light!

R440 You are an idiot. I was talking about Boggs farm in particular. What has that to do with Websleuths. a site I've visited 2x in 8 years??

R431, that site is beyond ridiculous, but... I always thought that the children were being exploited for free labor. Apparently, it was a sort of co-op deal where you can do work and get food.

I always thought it odd that the kids were left there by their mothers. Those murderous cunts never let those kids out of their sight, but they’d drop them off at a farm for the day? As for saying that the kids had every opportunity to report abuse; that might be true, but there is a reason they didn’t complain to Boggs. They’d seen what happened when they tattled.

And the other conspiracy about Shannon Barney; I don’t buy all the Illuminati crap, but I do believe he’s corrupt. The sex shenanigans that happened in his department seem to be corroborated.

R442, I think you meant R439?

Invoking WS is a troll tactic that has been used to try to shut down discussion on the Hart threads. Just ignore him, block and move on.

New story

I wish there was a focus on a search for the 2 missing kids. It is good that the story is still being covered though.

Devonte and Tubby Love

What the hell was WRONG with those bitches, letting these men get so physically close to their son?

I am starting to think Jen got off on it. Unless she was pimping out Devonte, that the only other explanation.

Entirely possible all of them were being pimped...in one way or another.

r445 this article nails Jen and Sarah, I hope their fans will read it

Wow that “music” video above where he fondles poor Devontes head is disturbing...shit music

Just a question -- why, according to the article linked at r445, are "Black people very sensitive about strangers touching their children’s heads and hair—especially white people"?

I mean, anyone could be expected to be sensitive about a stranger touching their child, but the rest of it?

R452, I think it makes them feel like they’re animals in a petting zoo. As if they’re not people, just a freak curiosity. And they assume a stranger wouldn’t go touch a white child’s hair. As if white people have an entitlement to black people’s bodies. It makes perfect sense to me, I get it.

Having said that, I was a girl with long thick blonde hair. When I was little, a black girl at my day camp wanted to play with my hair. And I played with hers, too. I can promise you that there was no RACISM or colonial condescension or whatever. It was mutual and innocent.

But yeah, I get it.

Jeremiah

David Chilly Love & kids. He drove from MN to CA and left an altar at the crash site

Jojo is Jay Lash, aka, Tubby Love, see photo above. Trevor is likely Trevor Hall, another musician big with the hippy festival crowd. He sometimes plays with Nacho, and with Tubby Love and Xavier Rudd.

Jenn aggressively pimped the kids to get attention from the musicians. There are photos, videos, etc. re: Nacho, Max Ribner, Xavier Rudd, etc.

Tubby Love and Max Ribner both attended the Berkeley College of Music

That article was whack. Jen took her self-image problems and inflicted herself on human beings who deserved better, but that's because she's a scheming narcissist who wanted to be seen as important and heroic. There's fights everywhere about it but color or lack of it doesn't define a person or how they should be treated, and I'm sick of being told it should. And that "head rub" wasn't to feel his nappy head or "get good luck" or racist crap like that. It was a creepy, creepy, loving embrace, a "dad's protective arms" kind of deal. There's enough bad stuff to go around with out making this out to be about hair types.

R456, your use of the word “aggressive” is spot-on. She was like a stage mother. I never met the woman, but I imagine she’s like a few I know IRL. You don’t say NO to them.

What ugly behavior.

R458, I tend to agree. Some people see more racially-motivated behavior in this case than I do. Different perspective, but I won’t deny it’s there. But I think their brand of racism was of the “low expectations” kind, not the overt kind.

Very rarely do I see it mentioned, and I really truly do not know; who’s actually willing to adopt children? Are there black families waiting to adopt? Asian? Latino?

In my anecdotal, white-person experience, most of the adoptions I know of are white people adopting children from Asia or South America. A very few white babies by white parents. I don’t know a single family of color who’s adopted a non-relative/stranger. Not to say they don’t exist, I just don’t know of any.

We can’t very well say “you can only foster/adopt children of the same race as you”, either!

I agreed with the article in R445, but i think Jen would have abused any kid in her care, regardless of their race.

This comment was posted by someone who knew Sarah before Jenn.

Sarah was observed to be cold and physically abusive to the kids but her relationship with Jenn was far from a love story. I think she left after her parole ended in MN with no real plans to reunite. Jenn went after her with the kids.

Jenn saw Sarah as a means to ends - no single 20 something would have been given all those kids and Sarah got her degree and had a steady, if not esp lucrative, work history. Was there more? Ever? Was it puffed up and staged on social media like the rest of what was marketed as Hart family love? Sarah also had visible bruises at times.

Dunno, but one reporter to CPS said that Jenn said she was obsessed with the woman who was reporting, who was married to a man. Jenn said she wanted to leave Sarah for her. What was to become of the kids? Jenn was not a good judge of people IRL since this woman was dropping a dime on them and liked dick.

Anyway, fwiw...

I knew Sarah in college @ NSU in Aberdeen. She was nice. No one in our group knew she was a lesbian until she started dating Jen. When she started dating Jen, our group barely ever saw her because they seemed to be so in love. (Or Jen was controlling?) Went to a few house parties with both of them and Sarah was not the same. She seemed unhappy.

I think that they met fairly quickly as transfer students, so the other friends did not know Sarah well.

Jenn seemed to have issues, the shoplifting, difficult family relationships, sawing nipples off mannequins at work and not finishing her degree. Jenn reminds me a lot someone I know who is bipolar, even down to the road trips. Just patterns of chaos, withdraw, rage outburst and mania. Sarah seemed more stable and even keeled. Both had started as ed majors but worked in retail and never taught.

They took in 2 foster children soon after college graduation (1 at a time) and had adopted while still in their 20s which seems unusual. Jenn might have figured that the adoption subsidy would replace what she would have made in a retail job.

[quote] I don’t know a single family of color who’s adopted a non-relative/stranger. Not to say they don’t exist, I just don’t know of any.

I adopted from Russia (I adopted as a single mother) and the same thing goes on in Russia. Now Russian adoptions are closed but when I adopted they made it sound like the Americans were taking away the children that could have been adopted by Russian families but no Russian families wanted to adopt. In Russia there is a stigma to being an orphan and they rarely if ever would adopt a child from an orphanage. It's more a pride thing that they didn't want Americans taking their children, some would rather see the kid spend the rest of his childhood in an orphanage.

R463. There were not two fosters, just the one.

It came out that there was another, informal one, previously.

Nacho & Jenn

......

R467, I do think OR dropped the ball on this one - I lay MUCH blame at the feet of the “doctor” who gave the children a clean bill of health despite their being too small to appear on the growth chart. We can’t expect a stoned bunch of childless hippies to be on the lookout for child abuse, but a medical professional is bound to.

I hope that asshole loses sleep over this. And their medical license.

Agree, R468.

It is clear why they had to flee MN, the report of the social worker clearly had their number and they had 2 investigations and a criminal conviction for child abuse. Reading between the lines it seems that MN recommended that the adoption of the second set of 3 NOT proceed, but TX went ahead anyway. Given that their aunt fought it to the Court of Appeals, it is particularly heartbreaking.

All of the kids were so much happier seeming and were normally sized when first with the Harts. Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I do see Jen’s behaviour with these kids to be racially motivated - she set herself up as the Earth Mother of a rainbow family, got so much support and attention from the festival community for being an open hearted non racist vegan lesbian and pimped out charismatic Devonté to inspire white men into hugging him.

She used them as signifiers of her greatness and that they were black is part and parcel with that.

Let’s not pretend Jen did the black community a favour by adopting their unwanted. Recall she abandoned her first foster kid without a goodbye.

As for why black people don’t adopt, in many black communities, there is the “it takes a village” ethos. Kids are often raised by aunts, grandmas, older siblings and godparents. In fact some of the Hart kids were. And as we know, not many men of other races marry black women (though black men will marry white women) and I doubt many agencies would allow a single 20-something college dropout to adopt if she were black.

I wonder if "beloved" Jen was actually kindly asked to leave her position.

As in, advised that a career in mannequin mauling was not offered by her employer.

Was Jen racist so much as just a user, who had no respect for the lives of others except as objects to reflect her glory. I think that was Jen's deal. She had no firm or fixed identity and was always latching on to whatever made her the grooviest in her present circle.

Yeah, I think that's it. A user with no respect for the lives of others

My cousin and his wife who are the whitest of white bread and have 3 Caucasian sons adopted a black baby. They have raised in a predominately white school and church, the little girl is dressed nicely but her hair is a mess because they obviously don't know how to take care of it. Whites adopting blacks is a hard thing, their little girl will be loved but she will have a very shallow white view of the world which I think will come back to bite her when she is an adult. But maybe in the long run at least she was loved. Tough call.

........

So many people failed these children.

Nacho appears to be the unidentified man in the photo of the Oregonian. Over time, people had to notice that they were bony and not getting bigger. All the contact with unrelated adults would get more skeevy seeming when they didnt seem like grade schoolers. Their heads look too big for their bodies. In many photos they have protruding bellies like children in developing countries who do not get enough protein. Horrifying that it was paraded about and normalized, even lauded. Cognitive biases seem very powerful.

As I suspected:

“The physician, whose name the state child welfare agency redacted, is as an osteopathic doctor who worked at a Providence clinic in Clackamas. A message left for a Providence spokesperson has not been returned.”

For those unfamiliar: “Osteopathy is a type of alternative medicine that emphasizes manual readjustments, myofascial release and other physical manipulation of muscle tissue and bones. Practitioners of osteopathy are referred to as osteopaths.”

I’ll bet you a million dollars, this was one of Jen’s festival buddies. Not a pediatric MD.

And doesn’t the absence of prior medical records raise a red flag for these fucktards?

Poor kid never got to be one, he was just one of the adults. Creepy as hell how he was treated.

Wonder if this was the guy posting about --weightless Abi-- and her management of his trip? So many adult hands all over these kids.

[quote]described Devonte as not looking proportionate.

I have always thought that Devonte didn't look proportionate! Maybe he had a type of dwarfism or just had slightly a deformed breastplate?

Clackamas County HAS a child advocacy center, now, but it appears it did not then.

I still do not get why the Harts got to pick the doctor. It is not like it was their usual ped, after all, she had no records for them.

I could buy any individual kid having a growth problem but since only ONE was on the chart for height or weight, and having seen the Turpins, I have to go with starvation. The kids were provided with medical care by TX, it is obvious why it was not accessed.

Jenn looking happy as a clam while you can see bones poking out through the shirt of her oldest son. Unreal.

There is a bit of an odd vibe in the pics of Chilly Love and the kids one on one

Link for R484

Starving kids - Ciera has a belly found on malnourished kids in developing countries and the legs of the boys look like twigs. Next to the others the difference is so stark.

[quote]My mother said that when it came to having to kill animals for food, they traded their animals w/ neighbors, so you wouldn't have to eat animals that you knew.

R435, I can 110% guarantee that [bold]never[/bold] happened.

Farmers are [bold]perfectly fine[/bold] with butchering and eating their own animals, that's [bold]why[/bold] they raise them. Many of the farmers and homesteaders that I know, both personally and on websites and youtube channels, will describe their cows/goats/chickens/etc as having "a great life with one bad day".

If your mom truly believes that her parents traded animals with neighbours for butchering (not breeding), then either she's an idiot or, more likely, she was a sensitive child and her parents just told her that lie so that she would eat meat without crying or complaining.

David Chilly Love with Devonte

Jeremiah - skin and bones and a lollipop head, surrounded by men.

..........

Little Hannah, to the left and tiny Abigail, to the right, were already being sent to school black and blue at these young ages. Hannah was hit in the arm with a belt before the second adoption was even finalized. Abi was punched up and down her torso and back and had her head submerged in water. Can you fathom what monsters would prey on such young, vulnerable kids? They all looked so much healthier and happier when new to Chez Hart. Markis seemed worried from the jump, he and Hannah were not good sources of fawning for self absorbed Jenn. Devonte played the game for all of them. So sad that they will never get a chance to have a different life.

R435 R436 R487 My mom gave my brother and I the choice of eating our chickens or giving them away to our neighbors, which is what we did. Even as young children we knew our neighbors would probably kill them. I've been a vegetarian ever since.

And R487 that may be something that "farmers" with young children would tell them, and maybe the trading never really happened, but given how much children are indoctrinated with songs and stories about children, it can be unsettling to consume their beloved pets.

R487 Especially, you fucker. R436 R439

I took few days break from DL after dealing w/ trolls on virtually every thread I on which I posted.

I have been on DL since it started. I work in entertainment.

I am so sick of the assholes who have flooded this place — racist, hateful, naysayers. They have driven out anyone and everyone.”It never happened” is a common refrain.

I have read entertainment gossip on this site (not posted by me) that I know to be true but yet, jerks put down the poster.

On this thread I have had morons challenging my mother’s family farm practice of not killing their own stock but trading with their neighbors. My mother's parents did not sugarcoat ANYTHING. They lived a tough life during the Dust Bowl.

You idiots know nothing about my family at all or farmers or anyone. You only know about your own tiny, miserable lives.

When my mother was in her late 70s, she cried to me saying that she when she a little girl, she was riding on the school bus & looked out the window and saw a man beating a mule. It was one of the biggest regrets of her life that she didn’t or couldn’t do anything about it. It haunted her for over 60 decades.

She and her older sister named the animals on their farm. Her parents traded their stock w/ their neighbors so the families would not have to eat their own animals.

So because you don't have the same sensitive nature towards animals, you should just shut the fuck up.

This thread plus the Prince Harry thread w/ the attacks on Meghan Markle are the nail in the coffin. So yeah, Meghan’s dad IS escorting her down the aisle. Meghan’s trashy half-brother, half-sister and former, envious classmate Miss P, lost.

R492 Thank you.

R492 The trading did take place in my mother's family. It is just one more reason that I admire my maternal Grandmother and Grandfather even though I never met them. They had passed on before I was born.

R492 I am a vegetarian too. My relatives raised hogs, cattle and tobacco. I don't smoke and I haven't eaten meat since I was 20.

I joined DL today just to be able to comment here and thank every one of you for your insightful comments about these lost children. I was so upset about the story, I joined WS, which was absurd. You couldn't say anything without offending someone, and the comments which did get through kept focusing on easy answers like "bipolarism.' Reddit was completely silent. Thank goodness, I found a link to here from WS. Every photo you've posted confirms my belief that these children were not only starved and physically abused at home, they were in most likelihood physically and/or sexually abused in the public venues where they were pimped and paraded as the Hart Family. I found comfort here on DL that others recognized the signs and continued to post meaningful observations, articles, and photos. Only the truth matters, and you DLers have gotten closer than anyone else so far, in my opinion. Thank you. And to you R493, I'm sorry you weren't believed. You clearly had a better family than most of us here.

There's one female DO at the Providence medical center in Clackamas, although the OregonLive article implies the doctor who signed off on the Harts' malnourishment doesn't work there anymore.

Websleuths allowed a link to DL, r497? That couldn’t have lasted long.

I know of more than one adult who became a lifelong vegetarian after visiting family on their farm and being served an animal playmate for dinner. Everyone is different.

So, back to the kiddos, found and missing...there are a handful of pictures with other kids in them, but generally the Hart kids are alone with adults, often with their parents nowhere nearby. They seem known for it and not just Devonte. It is striking. It does seem like a pervs paradise, impaired adults, lots of free love and huggy BS, lots of strangers. Such sad, short lives.

i was just saying Datalounge has been infected by miserable creeps.

[R500] 'dont worry... they have enough kids for everyone TO GET 'Plenty Of Love™' o_0

Could that be any more CREEPY???

The Hart family shows up after the 15 min mark of the video. Jenn has a vibe.

The kids may have benefited from speech therapy if they had remained in school. Not being allowed to speak in the home unless they raised their hands likely did not help either. So sad that Hannah did not get to speak in the video, maybe she was self conscious about her missing teeth? She was so tiny and would have been in her teens in 2015. Markis looked utterly fearful when being filmed by Jenn.

I thought that the hippie natururalpathc (sp?) doc the Harts picked to weigh the kids said that they all seemed intelligent and well spoken. Likely she was paid off or the kids were parroting scripts. They were known to have development and/or cognitive issues before a decade of intense isolation, trauma and starvation stunted their growth and possibly caused brain damage. Jenn was known for hitting the head of one kid against a wall when she was in first grade, and another one against the bottom of the bathtub as she held her head under water. Brain injuries and trauma and starvation do not boost development. Kids who are safe and who get proper nutrition and support can catch up to some degree, esp when little, but even the Turpins and those boys starved in NJ. So sad that they will never get that chance. Jenn told people that they would never live independently, she wanted the disability payments, so she systematically brought that about. Far more impaired people can live and work with proper supports, but that would have brought the starvation and lack of education to light and cut off the $$$ train that enabled her to sit on her fat ass gaming all day.

R503

Their affection for C-love is looking real enough. The close up on Jeremiah shows he has no cleft repair: he's just just missing so much normal subcutaneous fat around his mouth that the musculature is visible.

Why didn't Chili notice? Why didn't Chili help? How could he have been so blind.

[R503] Voice of Hannah is conspicuously absent; while Markis looks fairly terrified being filmed by Jenn

I'm terrified of being filmed by Jen. She's really intensely tense for a deceased person.

i hope Jen's camera got lodged in her ass when she drove off that cliff

But, but, but, Jenn is a savior. You can see how she curried favor and burnished her image by things like creating that lengthy video.

Chilly seems like a bit of a lost soul himself. He supposedly has had run ins with the law and I think he lives in a trailer, which must be cold in MN. He drank Jenns kool-aide. Wonder if she did not want the kids to speak since it showed their saving transformation was incomplete?

Those kids deserved a chance, not to die a horrifying and terrorizing death.

re: R503's video:

Hannah must have done something to piss off Jenn, since she's not allowed to wish Chilli a happy b-day in the video.

Markis looks... off. Maybe he's just cross-eyed, but he seems slightly challenged.

That video shows chilli spelled 3-4 different ways

R510, i was noticing that too... i think you're right about Hannah being left out as *punishment* , it would seem to fit the pattern... Markis, i wonder if he opted for the cross-eyed thing as a way to not have to see everything, all the awfulness. i went to school with an abused kid who did exactly that. in some photos, Markis looks distinctly cross-eyed but in others his eyes appear normally aligned, and also he seems less bone thin, jawline less prominent. maybe some periods in his life were *better* (less awful) than others?

Chronic undernourishment in childhood leads to deficits cognitive function, motor development and language. Some are more resilient than others, but the lack of food as judged by stunted growth was probably having other effects. Markis was singled out, he may have suffered more.

We failed these kids, this sucks

It breaks my heart to think Devonte and Hannah may never be found. We will never know what happened.

Yes we DO know that most likely Hannah and Devonte were pulled from the auto by massive tide currents, or thrown from the auto as it went over the clif and impacted. What is with the need to make something that is so stunningly insane, monstrously awful - just isnt awful enough? That is something to say about the poster. Reals.

They were probably in the car and thrown out But they aren't found and there is no certainty. Hannah was the most fragile in terms of stature and was starved by her own report, but brave enough to try to escape and seek rescue from neighbors. Devonte sought help from the same neighbors.

There are no reports of other children attempting to thwart their own abuse, at least not recently. It is a coincidence that the two "traitor" children happen to be the two missing family members.

It is just possible that either or both of these children were punished severely, injured, abandoned, or even killed. Jen Hart had the obvious capacity to torture, injure, and kill.

Is it really so outrageous a hypothesis that Jen might single those two out? Even police were in enough doubt to issue missing person flyers. I believe they are dead and most likely went in the water.

I can seen them being beaten, abandoned, left to die of exposure, or even directly murdered. After all, Jen murdered everyone in her family. She's capable of anything.

More remains found at the crash site

Sucks. I wonder if left there dead or washed up there.

Washed up. It's almost certainly Hannah.

They are combing the area for any more remains.

Devonte probably shared her fate. Still, he's the only one I thought really might have a chance of escaping (all but ruled out now) or being left somewhere alive. I don't think Jen would let that one get away, though. They were all going down, together.

Huggin' with the fishes.

A girl's size 10 pants and she was how old?

16 years old...size 10 pants, and big kids shoes. My heart aches. Now will we ever know about Devante? I so wish these two women had lived to be tortured like these defenseless children were.

I have the feeling that one of the children was harmed before leaving on the trip. It's grim to think that one of the murdered children was riding in the vehicle on the way down to CA. The terror the other children must have felt, there was not one adult who did shit for them. Devonte likely crying in that photo because help is technically so close, but so far away. No one gave a shit enough to go deeper than Jen and Sarah's racist lies. All the friends high AF, and too dim to notice that the children never grew. Markis seemed like he was tall in the photos, but the lad was only 4'9"...That means the others were just beyond tiny. I am very saddened it seems like there is no one looking into this case. Websleuths has closed the thread indefinitely, and has posted the article but for some reason (no speaking of race, no criticizing hippie festivals or claiming drug use!!11!!1!!1) will not reopen.

[quote] Websleuths has closed the thread indefinitely

Jesus Wept!!

That explains DLs six absurd threads on this.

[quote]Websleuths has closed the thread indefinitely

Why?

Why are you on this thread if you don't want to read it? The plight of these children have hit a nerve with some people. So what? Go back to the 31st thread about Samm Cleughwhatever.

On Websleuths you couldn't mention race, sexual orientation, hippie and/or music and/or alternative lifestyle festivals, or sexual abuse. Did I miss anything? Even bashing child protective services drew ire. Everybody on there was more worried about themselves and their experience than what actually may have happened to these children. I don't know what finally caused that WS woman to lose it and close it because I'd stopped going there and never intend to return. It's like a third world dictatorship.

Got shut down on Websleuths, because a bunch of white women got in their feels, when it became clear racism played a part in the deaths of these children, and the fact that people who go to festivals do drugs.

Also many annoyed at any critique of adoption, or problems with transracial adoption.

Very sensitive about saying people around the kids at these festivals were high, to which was responded - IVE SEEN MORE DRUG USE AT DISNEYLAND AND WALMART!!!!! I Bring my kids to Burning Man and they are FINE!

Ok, then.

Burning man at least has kid and family zones. Jen and Sarah liked their kids out of those zones, to be "special" among adults. They were her entré into hippie society and lord love it if she was going to let them languish in a kiddie zone.

[quote]Got shut down on Websleuths, because a bunch of white women got in their feels, when it became clear racism played a part in the deaths of these children

There are a couple of closed or 'secret' Facebook groups dedicated to this case that are the same way. Race is the topic that must not be named.

I think it's a bit rich that adults are getting their feelings hurt in discussions of the Hart children. If one bit of good could come from this sad case, I'd hope we could examine the dynamics that helped the Harts collect and abuse kids with no repercussions.

R518, thank you for keeping up and posting the update.

The Websleuths threads were insane. My favorite part was the participants who are white and have like 14 adopted black kids. But they’re doing it for the RIGHT reasons. ANYONE who adopts that many kids has a screw loose, IMO.

What happened that Tricia at Websleuths threw a hissy fit and shut the Hart threads down? I'd been keeping up with them for the most part but didn't see anything egregious or inflammatory that preceded her little tantrum.

The way they are talking all the peace love new age mush is just like the Allison Mack/Nxivm cult where they are all spouting love and mindfulness and wisdom mush and at the same time are in some crazy controlling cult.

No repercussions? One had a child abuse conviction. They were under investigation and chased out of three states and over a cliff by the hot breath of the law and their own sense of failure or at least exposure. If the Dekalbs had acted sooner, immediately, they'd probably have lost the kids and might even have ended up in jail or on probation. It's a tragedy and crime that Oregon CPS just shrugged it's shoulders, but they had to ditch town to keep it that way. Wisconsin would not have been so generous. Perverse secondary gains, (monetary, social, and emotional ) motivated the adoptions and the facilitators of he adoptions. Maybe Texas should have followed the advice it was given and refused the second adoption.

They lived in WA, not WI.

No matter when the neighbors called, this seemed to be the end game for Jenn. They could not become more isolated, literally, that card was played out. The monthly income was dropping, the kids were aging out. The abuse and lack of any actual education were going to be issues in trying to get disability for adult kids.

Every time CPS intervened, things got worse for those kids - in TX, in MN, in OR and in WA. Jenn was a family annihilator. The system does not seem well set up to prevent that. They knew how to game the system, the words to use, the moving to evade investigations. They gamed TX, for income, while Jenn sat on her fat ass and played video games all day, when she was not honing their brand on social media. The Turpin kids were luckier, there was video evidence and things like chains and feces triggers a different immediate response than an orderly household and vegetables. The women had a lot interventions at the time of the criminal conviction, they were not interested in changing. The kids existed for narcissistic supply and income and those things were coming to a close. Jenn had no plan for them as adults or for herself to have a career or life outside the festival folks, from whom they had become very distant. Abuse and mental illness tend to worsen over time, especially with isolation and financial stress.

That FB post was the swan song, the Nacho --driving into the ocean to be free-- was only a matter of time.

.........

..........

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R8, no need for an apostrophe dear. Let's try to appear like we graduated high school.

I do not even kill insects!

Just black children!

Nacho to the rescue!

(Check out the Filipino dude with the beaded Native American belt!)

Not sure I have ever seen a photo of the Hart women holding the kids past pre-school age? Other adults were all over the kids. Big crowd for little people.

Happy sisters, what a beautiful smile Hannah had before her teeth were knocked out. RIP.

Even for Jenn and Sarah, this is fucking bizarre.

Lavishing love and affection on a CHICKEN? Who does not seem to be enjoying the hugs and kisses? While starving, punching and waterboarding a house full of human children? The over the top music and repeated stroking are creepy AF.

Very young Hart kids dancing with Nacho.

Jenn must have been over the moon at all the attention the kids got her from festival performers.

She must have been livid when some of the festival tribe narked them out to CPS. She had really distanced from them, even on social media, it seemed.

Sarah could have used a nose job. She is very pretty from some angles.

Wonder how they planned to pay their mortgage when the payments from TX stopped? The TX payment had dropped after Markis aged out. Less income, or did they switch Markis to a fed program? Usually there are evaluations and required documents for adult disability programs. They scammed and played the system so many times, wonder if they had threaded that needle too?

.........

Do all the kids get hugged on and handled by strangers at the hippy festivals?

Seems like it would be a pedo paradise, all that touching.

Some of the adults do seem kind and to connect a bit with the kids. Even then, were they tiny pass arounds for a hit of feel good?

The kids were beaten with belts and punched black and blue from their earliest days with Jen and Sarah. These outings outside the torture house, where they might get fed, had to literally seem like shangri la. Drunk and high adults can be really scary for kids and the performance expectations of Jen were very high, still, guess it is all relative.

The festivals are very white and overwhelmingly adult. It seems like the kids lives were here or in the house. One neighbor said that they ran from the car to the door. Had they been around more POC or gay/lesbian parents would it have been harder to keep the secrets? Did they count on the peace and love goggles and impairment as shields?

Wonder if Jen got jealous when Nacho paid attention to other kids?

They were adorable tots. And she tried to keep them small as long as she could.

,,,,,,,,

Oops

Jeremiah & Max R

Hart Visions Photography

Smiley Hannah

Clearly I need more coffee. This is the very smiley Hannah, who still had all her teeth at this point.

The only other parent I can think of who knocked out the front teeth of his kid is Ryan ONeal, nuff said, and another drunk.

For the fool upthread who thinks that an osteopathic doctor is some kind of cult-like alternative medicine:

In modern medicine, any distinction between the M.D. and the D.O. professions has eroded steadily. Diminishing numbers of D.O. graduates enter primary care fields, fewer use osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT), and increasing numbers of osteopathic graduates choose to train in non-osteopathic residency programs. An osteopathic physician (D.O.) is a fully licensed, patient-centered physician. A D.O. has full medical practice rights throughout the United States and in 44 countries abroad.

In the 21st century and most of the 20th century, the training of osteopathic physicians (DOs) in the United States is equivalent to the training of Doctors of Medicine (MDs).

Osteopathic physicians attend four years of medical school followed by an internship and a minimum two years of residency. They use all conventional methods of diagnosis and treatment. Though still trained in OMT, the modern derivative of the founder's techniques, they work in all specialties of medicine. The origins of osteopathic medicine was largely based on the belief there was over-reliance on medication as treatment.

DOs do whatever MDs do including surgery.

Regardless of the credential, the doc who saw them clearly either 1) knew little about kids, not being a ped, 2) did not care to get involved or 3) was paid off or in some way compromised, and thus was chosen by Jen.

Only 1 out of 6 even being on the charts for height and weight, having been with the Hart women for 10 years and having 2 different genetic backgrounds, was sufficient to raise concern. The charts provide objective standards, although just looking at a pic from around the same time is quite alarming. Who knows what made Jen pick this doc? Surely, she chose carefully, with so much $ on the line.

It's not the training, but what they are trained in and how they are trained - the practice philosophy may vary from OD to OD, but some are glorified witch doctors, who eschew testing, and believe osteopathic manipulation can not only assist is treatment but cure most anything. There is not the great erosion between allopaths and osteopaths claimed.

Starfucking by proxy through the kids was not limited to Nacho and Max. Tubby Love was a big fish in the hippie pond. Notice the Wookiefoot print painted on his shirt.

Big family = big $, courtesy of the tax payers of TX

Jenn never graduated (has to be a good story there!) and did not work, focusing her time on child torture, snacking and gaming. No WAY was she gonna let some stinkin CPS disrupt the gravy train. $270,000+ baby!

Life, and sadly, death, were on HER terms. She picked a doc who would guarantee that outcome, which she did, for whatever reason. OR CPS, without support from a doctor, or testimony from a kid, felt that they did not have enough evidence to go to court. Can you imagine the rallying of the hippy and PNW crowd if CPS had tried to yank the kids? They rallied to them after they were known to be family annihilators.

.........

Trust building with WHO?

Jenn often looks stressed and kinda crazy, Sarah typically looks disengaged.

Jenn, looking both crazy and old enough to be the mom of Sarah. She had to LOVE the attention the kids got her from the performers. She really did do a good job of gaslighting that community - with her stories of victimization over the years, they were primed to swing to her defense. Although some at festivals saw abusive behavior from both Sarah and Jenn,..

Ugh, meant to post this. Wonder what caused Jenn to look so old for her age? Drinking? Craziness? The super controlled facial expressions to hide the crazy?

Jen always looks manic with a fake smile. Sarah could pass as normal from what we see in photos and the 'birthday video." You can see Jen's manic stuff in the birthday video, too.

Mascots for the band

Wonder if Jenn had this kind of access prior to the kids?

That music/festival/newagey scene, for example at R568 is so unappealing. It's group think, self-righteousness, always a phony image, and constant pot smoking. And drinking that is not talked about as much as the pot.

No, they were probably loners, R569. That became their identity.

Horrible photo of Jenn, her weight seemed to fluctuate a lot. Maybe her food issues were projected onto the kids? Surely control and $ played a role in the starving of them too. The women who are the gfs in the scene, are, as expected, quite pretty. When the kids were not the draw, wonder how bitter it all made Jenn? Nusheen/Ava is striking.

I can kinda see how they thought that they knew them/her but the relationship was so superficial and managed by Jenn. She curated the interactions and social media like a brand.

Nusheen & Jeremiah

Except for extremely staged photos, usually as a big group, there are no photos of the kids interacting in a normal, affectionate way with J or S. Yet they are hugging, carried by and sat on the laps of dozens of acquaintances.

Wonder what happened that she cut off even social media contact with the hippy crowd?

That looks like the one who said she was a friend who spoke to the media recently. She is also in the photo at R572.

Yes, that is Nusheen.

The Websleuth bosslady who runs the site said that race couldn't be proved to play a part in these murders, and it was too inflammatory a subject to post about. Can you imagine these women parading scrawny white kids at festivals and protests? How is it remotely possible that this tragedy isn't about race?

There were other skinny kids at the festival (black and white).; you can see them on the Zippy photography website

No, R577. It is documented that only ONE child out of SIX was on the chart for height or weight compared to others their age. They were from 2 different bio families and were normal weights and sizes at the time of adoption.

The kids scavenging for food and food being withheld as punishment were known for a decade. These kids were stunted in growth like the Turpins because they were STARVED. Not like well cared for PNW kids at all.

Abbi is literally skin and BONES in this photo. Do not bring your defense of those monsters here or try to normalize their behavior. Those kids were $ for them and they minimized the amount spent to feed them. The cruelty is shocking. Neither of them appears to have missed a meal or snack.

The kid looks profoundly sad at his exploitation. No healthy parent demands that their child hug thousands of strangers and acquaintances, with many of the adults half dressed, sweaty, drunk or high. Never mind brags about it to OR CPS!

Jen and Markis, said to be a particular target. Look of love, right?

He said to another adult that he had to wait until the others had eaten to see if anything was left.

These kids were denied an education, medical care, food, safety. Meanwhile, the taxpayers in TX had paid them $270k, tax free for care! Seems like a chunck went to the house Jenn wanted and to camera equipment. She did not work, she abused the kids and played video games all day.

Someone up thread said everyone seemed to hold the kids except Sarah and Jenn. Look at those photos. Not everyone, only men. Men holding the kids, the kids holding onto men. Really disturbing.

[quote]Someone up thread said everyone seemed to hold the kids except Sarah and Jenn. Look at those photos. Not everyone, only men. Men holding the kids, the kids holding onto men. Really disturbing.

It's possible the kids preferred hugs from men because A) they had no men in their lives and were starved for male affection, and B) hugging men didn't arouse jealousy and anger in Jenn; on the contrary, she clearly insisted upon it.

Also, most of the performers are men, so starfucker-by-proxy Jenn worked with what she had. If she'd dragged the kids to Michfest, the girls would've been "encouraged" to hug female singers and musicions.

I'm not defending the practise by any means, but I'm not sure it's a pedophilia thing like some posters have said. Yes, some of the men who hugged Devonte probably got the wrong kind of enjoyment from it, but I suspect most of the affection truly is innocent and is oriented towards giving the kids the physical affection that all children need and that Jenn and Sarah clearly withheld.

UPDATE: a pair of girl's jeans has been found, attached to a small running shoe with a skeletal foot inside. The items were washed up about a mile North of the crash site.

It appears Hannah didn't escape with her life like some of us had hoped.

Starting the video at 1:30 (before that is just his channel opening thing and then the usual "subscribe and hit notifications" begging).

Those kids were adorable when young and it seems like Jen and Sarah didn't know what to do with them when they got older and wiser to their shit. Like the poster said above it seems like they had no game plan for when the kids grew up and they would lose their government funding for them, also they probably feared the kids leaving and airing their dirty laundry. The sad part is at least if they would have stayed with their aunt or even their biological mother they would still be alive.

There are lots of photos of the kids being hugged by and played with women as well. Posted is one of Abigail.

A FB group that had a lot of photos seems to be imploding, unfortunately.

You almost never see the kids near playground equipment, this may be at a festival in Harmony Park?

There are so many pics of Nacho and Max and Chilly playing with the kids, like Ring Around the Rosie,swimming, etc. They were not kids they just saw from afar, so I imagine that learning of the reality of their lives was a shock. I doubt anyone was beating a 6 year old with a belt in front of Nacho. No pics that I have seen of their abusers playing with them. They started beating and starving them from the jump, even before the 2nd adoption was finalized. Hopefully there was some good that came from interacting with others at festivals, some genuine happiness felt by the kids.

There seem to be well meaning folks at the festivals, those that played with them, fed them, offered Jenn and Sarah blankets and jackets for them, those that dropped the dime on them when they saw through the BS. On the minus side, there were not a whole lotta kids, there were almost no POC and there were a lot of really fucked up adults who were 3 sheets to the wind, like the guy at far right in photo. That this, or the house of horrors were their only environments is sad, that they did not get to live to create a different life for themselves is tragic.

Jenn treated them like accessorized pets or prisoners. Such beautiful little souls. RIP.

Narcissists really struggle with teens asserting themselves. It is a normal stage of development but they take it hella personally. Jenn probably liked them tiny, dependent, showering her with affection, since that is the only card kids can play for safety.

Abi, bones poking out. It is not true that the other children at the festivals were skeletal and being subjected to long term starvation that stunted their growth. The Turpins are the best comparison.

The oversized clothes and layers hid a lot. Wonder if she got ideas from ANA websites.

Lots of women in the festival community were affectionate with the kids.

Hannah had a beautiful smile before her teeth were knocked out.

So many people would have cherished these kids.

Reading to the kids

I do not buy that most kids at festivals had their elbow as the biggest part of their arms. Jenn and Sarah deflected any concern to anger at the bio families.

TX CPS as an adoption mill? MN did not seem to think so highly of TX if you read between the lines. Of course, the real bad guys here are the family annihilators, Jenn and Sarah. They knew how to game and play the system and were so bold they beat a tiny child with a belt WHILE 3 more with adoption pending were there for a visit. It was not fine and then devolved, it was starvation and beatings from the get go and the kids were tiny. No sense of protectiveness of their vulnerability then or while compelling hugs of half naked, high adults at festivals. The kids were supply for Jenn & her ego and $$$.

Since she TOLD Nasheen, years ago, that the kids would never leave, was she assuming that they could game the disability system too? Sure wonder if Markis had qualified at 18. Her payments from TX seemed to have decreased.

Sarah was not on the checks from TX and with her abuse conviction in MN would likely not have been able to keep the kids. It is unlikely she had any legal relationship given the abuse conviction and they never touted second parent adoptions happening in MN. Jenn really set it all up with herself as the Queen Bee, but the clock was always ticking.

For those who wish the Dekalb family had called earlier or more often, consider that a foster mother was allowed to starve two OR kids so that after three years a 4 and 5 year old were the same weight they were at 1 and 2 y. o.

I didn't know about Peter Yarrow's sex offender status and its quite possible the Hart women didn't either.

The family I'm from always encourages children at social events to hug and kiss relatives and some adult friends that the kids just met or haven't seen for years. As a kid I found it  creepy and hated it. However, it wasn't any kind of grooming for sexual abuse, it was just a cultural norm. A bad idea? Yeah I think so. But it wasn't preparation for sexual abuse. It seems like if your 'extended family' is a bunch of hippies at festivals then a lot of hugging would not be considered out of line.

Although I've never been on the web sleuths site I have to agree with the moderator there about race. If this was all about race and adoption then what was the cause of the Turpin family abuse and starvation? Was it due to their having the same race and not being adopted?

A lot of the posts on this thread do creep me out with the ghoulish fanfic conspiracy theory crap. Lots of families are hella fucked up in many different ways.I think the facts that are known are horrible enough without making shit up in your dark twisted mind.

What is up with the costumes? They look utterly repugnant with the dumb sunglasses, hats and Punky Brewster thrift-shop clothes. And then there was the zebra unitard...

It was either a way to humiliate them, keep them looking like toddlers playing dress-up, or maybe it was just done for attention. The other festival kids look hippyish but not grotesque.

Jen was a comprachico.

There is no way to know or sure, one way or the other, if sexual abuse of any of the Hart children occurred.

Devonte dancing in his briefs in a publicly posted Youtube video, at age 12, is an unusual parental choice, but then so is starvation.

The kids were known to go off with adults at the festivals, none of us can know what may have happened there or elsewhere. The Hart women were not at all protective.

Starvation of kids is far more common than I ever would have imagined. I would not want my life to hinge on CPS in WA or in OR. MN seemed to see through the BS, but their intervention and conviction ended up making things worse.

R581, I agree. At this point, I’m a broken record with that shit. It was weird. It was not right.

R594, I don’t think the crime or abuse was racially MOTIVATED, but I do think it’s okay to discuss it. The women took advantage of the race gap between them.

If you're interested in a racial perspective to this crime, here's an essay that nails it. Thank you to the person who provided the link on here earlier. Parading a bunch of gaunt white kids (ie like the Turpins) would never have had the same cache as the beautiful Hart children, even as starved as they were. Sarah pimped those kids. They were her brand.

They were her brand. Then they grew up.

They could not allow them to leave, lest they be arrested.

The older ones not going to school or getting jobs or having relationships or moving out is outside the norm, even for hippies. The kids being unable to do those things for whatever reason - due to abuse by the Harts, damage from starvation, lack of any formal education, damage from early childhoods, due to the risk to the Hart women if they left - would stand in stark contrast to the-- love, light and Bernie fixed all-- narrative that was the brand. Plus, if they left, the Harts could not rake in $$$ from TX or Fed taxpayers for that individual. A job at Kohls was not paying a mortgage on a $400k house nor was it feeding 8 people.

Really, there was always a time limit on their scam, from the very first beating of a tot in MN. The DeKalbs may have moved the timeline up a bit by trying to help the kids, but there were not really any good outcomes that had been set up. Jenn was decompensating and gaming, not getting a job to replace lost income. A Turpin escape is so rare and family annihilators are so crafty and dangerous.

R598

I doubt the abuse was racially motivated per se, but I do think the Harts had a creepy fixation on adopting black kids, either due to a white savior complex or due to the desire to use the kids for SJW cred, which is pretty much the same thing. Also, either motivation betrays Jenn and Sarah not truly seeing black people as fully human.