Hart Family Crash - Pt4 - Pedal to the Metal continued

Was it previously noted here that there were *two* reports of child abuse made against the Hart women in Minnesota? The first one was in 2008, when 6 year-old Hannah said Jen hit her with a belt. Jen and Sarah used the favorite abuser's excuse that the girl fell down a flight of stairs. CPS apparently gave the women a free pass on that one. Three years later, 6-year old Abigail told her teacher than Jen had beaten her and held her head under water. That was the one that Sarah took the fall for.

I'm not convinced that this woman in the Ft. Bragg store is actually Jenn Hart. It doesn't look like any photos we've seen and her hair color is wrong. Was she ever pictured wearing glasses?

It looks like she's holding a credit card, so I guess that's why they say it's Jenn.

r1 I fell down the stairs all the time too!

i think the most recent pics of the family floating around are the Bernie ones, that was in 2016

The sheriff was just on HLN. The person pictured at the checkout used Jen’s Safeway rewards card, was wearing the same clothes Jen’s body was recovered in, and the crashed SUV was captured on the parking lot’s security cameras.

It’s Jen.

Falling down the stairs and running in the house would not fool one person on DL. How come this tricked the cps social workers? Something is so wrong with this cps program.

How bizarre to use your Safeway rewards card and then slaughter your family a short time later.

Any gamers? What kind of time and $ are involved? What about being a guild leader? Looks like she was playing up until 3/23?

A Dler posted this on previous thread and it is interesting...

These 2 psychos were allowed to home school these kids, AFTER the cps investigation and conviction. Yes, they were cleared to be home school by cps.

WHAT THE FUCK?

R8, many homicides and suicides are impulsive acts.

you do not get the sales or discounted price, if you do not use the rewards card. They were scrapped for cash.

Why not go to a nice restaurant and get a decent last meal for the whole family? Even on a suicide mission, they were overly withholding.

I just found out something today about the food benefits. Every time the hart psychos moved, the cps cuts them off food benefits. So this procedure punishes the kids. This is one reason why the kids were starving.

I think we need to give all these benefits to the kids; not cps, and certainly, not to the foster & adopted parents or guardians.

Also, what is this cps program? It makes no sense what they do to these kids.

Yeah r13, I fought for my kids to have chicken nuggets!

R14 You can get an emergency SNAP card issued the same day you apply.

R8 People w/ bi-polar are at high risk for suicide. I wonder whether Jenn was bi-polar and it was a factor in the decision to drive off the cliff.

Ok, ok, we get that you bloody hate CPS. Enough already!

There is a beach full of sea glass in Ft. Bragg. I hope the kids got to see it.

There are a lot of neighbors and witnesses to the kids' abuse that are furious with cps. They all tried to help the kids, but cps did not help them. The most recent neighbors, the Dekalb's, also tried cps. The neighbors wanted something positive for these kids. This is a major aspect of all the reports to this disturbing news story

I had to put the CPS troll on ignore.

[quote]A Dler posted this on previous thread and it is interesting...

Deranged CPS Troll, are you not aware that we can see that it was you who posted the “interesting” drivel you now attribute to “a Dler” on the other thread?

Non-CPS trolls, so what is the best way to handle a situation like the Turpins and the Harts? Do you call police or CPS? The cops helped the Turpins immediately but the Turpin girl had photos on her phone. The cops in Woodland didn't do anything for the Hart kids when the neighbors called them.

If a neighborhood child came to my home in the middle of the night, saying he/she was abused i would call the police. Same with the Turpin kids. Devonte asking for that much food is a huge sign to call CPS/police. I'd probably call both.

R9

Check out the rank chart. It looks just like the cliff. She flatlined.

[R20] is the troll. Do not listen to someone telling you what all the facts are in the case, or what debate you can engage in on DL.

Is this allowed on DL? If you do not post what the troll wants, you get bullied.

Anyone know what kind of dogs they had? I wonder if they possibly let them go before the cliff dive. Maybe they gave them to a shelter in the area?

R22, I would contact the police, not CPS. Police can respond faster and can enter someone’s house if they have probable cause.

I posted in one of the other Hart threads that my partner had a small child who lived next door to his mother’s house knock on the door asking for food. He gave her something to eat and didn’t call the police. But that was an isolated incident. Certainly multiple incidents or an incident involving a visibly distressed child complaining of being starved and abused would have me calling the cops immediately.

Sane people can evaluate the facts in the case, and discern that there is a problem with this CPS, and what services are available to children?

R26 In videos, there was a small b/w dog that looked like a Boston Terrier and a larger black dog that looked like a lab or a shepherd. There was another dog in one of the hiking videos that was medium size, spotted gray like a border collie.

Jenn mentioned 5 dead pets in her FB , so I'm not sure what dogs were still alive.

I think the cops removed chickens and a "pet" from the house.

There are some dumb assumptions being made by the cops. One is "they planned a short trip because they left animals at the house." No. It means they left the house in a damn hurry!

latest info

Check out the Dr. Seuss shirt numbering. Jenn is Thing 1. Devonte is Thing 2. Sara is either Thing 7 or 8. I guess 8.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R18, Glass Beach is in MacKerricher State Park (technically, there are three beaches like that), which is where the revised drift-pattern and current analysis led them to concentrate their ocean search yesterday. They had been searching farther to the south until the Coast Guard changed it to the Noyo/MacKerricher area.

I really hope the three missing kids don't wash up there because the Hart Fan Club will be cumming all over themselves about how beautiful and meaningful it is that they came home to terra firma in such a beautiful spot. It will just be more cause for them to believe that everything was meant to be and the universe wanted it that way, maaaaan.

On the other hand, Glass Beach came to be because people used to dump their trash over the cliff. Sadly, it is fitting considering how their short lives played out.

[R16] how many times have the kids told someone they were being abused? How many times do kids have to tell cps that they are starving to get their benefits for food and other needs, like medical care and school? They had adult witnesses too, speaking up for them, reporting the issue.

How the fuck do abused kids sign up for the benefits? Why is this not automatic for fostered and adopted children already?

[quote]There is a beach full of sea glass in Ft. Bragg. I hope the kids got to see it.

Some of them may arrive currently.

I haven't read anything about the parents/families of Jen and Sarah. I'm not sure why but I'm curious. Were they close? Estranged?

Usually after a major tragedy like this we hear a bit about the families or they might issue a statement. So far it's been total silence. Seems kind of odd.

[quote]the most recent pics of the family floating around

Unfortunate choice of words, r5.

R35 In the spirit of gallows humor, scroll down to see the graphic of the warning sign about it being slippery - too bad it's cut off.

And yes, it's hard to miss the typo at the top of this guy's blog. He went to all that trouble w/ the different fonts and everything.

R36 After Sara's conviction for taking the blame for Jenn hitting Abigail in MN, they cut off contact w/ their families because the families didn't agree w/ how they were parenting the kids.

I saw this headline at R30's link (not related to this case)

"Tillamook hotel evacuated due to puking guests, passed out patron"

"Puking"? Are they going to write "Fuck" and "Shit" in headlines next?

Today's weather: Another Fucking Snowstorm

Movie Opens on Friday: It's Shit

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

according to this guy, the KKK story is true

"The group left a burning cross on the family's front yard - a tactic synonymous with the Klan - to scare and intimidate them into leaving the area, according to former neighbor Eric Cederquist."

r42 or they did it themselves. I imagine also that CPS didn't want to hassle them too much because they didn't want to look homophobic, too bad, these bitches needed looking into.

R40 It was probably written by the intern who thought "puking" sounded classier than "barfing." The other reporters are busy covering the Hart case.

I hope it wasn't the cheese.

R42, that person isn't their neighbor from Minnesota.

unfortunate R37 or ironic?

A family born from the heart, not the womb

R42/R43, he was their neighbor in Oregon. He’s just repeating what they told him.

[quote]They told my wife about some trouble they had back in Minnesota,' Eric told DailyMail.com from his West Linn home.

the family, their friends, the teachers and neighbors all reported the hart's to the cps. It was cps that sided with the hart psychos. It was cps that let them plea bargain down the abuse charges, and also, cleared them for home school.

CPS did get paid for all of this. The children received nothing, except abuse, starvation and death.

A lot of the witnesses are reporting that cps is lying. CPS is aware that many witnesses contacted cps about the hart's child abuse. Whether CPS made official reports of this or are shredding the reports is unknown.

But it is the witnesses who are coming forwarding to the press and saying CPS knew and CPS is lying. This is how we know the entire backstory now.

Some of the reports said that the first time CPS came, Jenn had come home from work and wouldn't open the door.

Maybe she was coming back from a photo or video shoot.

Can someone please call Adult Protective Services and have them cart away the CPS troll?

Where the hell did this CPS troll appear from? Is it new to DL?

I agree, the cps would actually do more to suppress free speech, a factual review of their actions and an improvement to their function/program than stopping fucking CHILD ABUSE.

Moreover, the homeschooling, religious cunts and cps would probably want to shut down DL, our free speech forum. OR worse.

[R52] look to a mirror, you are the troll.

MARY!! R40

I don't think CPS issues food cards and Medicaid. In my state it's the DHS (Department of Human Services)

Do you call the Police or CPS? I would call the police, I think they would be faster than CPS.

No one fucking knows what cps does. I thought they deal with child abuse and stressed out families. Apparently, starving child is fine and being locked into a van is counted as home schooled. I am upset.

r47 WTF? That story doesn't add up

does anyone here believe the missing kids are still alive?

cps fucked everything up. We do not know anything.

R47, wtf is that story? Makes no sense. Is that some weird combo of two different accident stories because who the hell is in the top pic?

Think about it, the youngest kid was 12, the others were 14, 15 (two of each) and one 19 year old. You can't tell me they were still sitting there quietly putting up with this nonsense, house on Walden pond bullshit. They weren't getting any kind of education that would let them move on into the world. They had to realize that by now. Even though contact with the outside world was minimal, they *knew* it was out there. They must've been mouthing off. They're teenagers!! Fuck, I wish they had risen up, knocked those two bitches senseless and ran.

I agree with the above poster; that video shot of Jenn from the gas station dies not jibe with the pictures of her from 1.5 years ago. Jekyll and Hyde, what happened to her? Weird.

CPS Troll is like the Taco Bell menu, but instead of a limited number of ingredients it has a limited number of words which it randomly throws together to form myriad posts.

Taco Bell mixes the same old ground beef, lettuce & tomato, sour cream, cheese, a soft tortilla, and Doritos and comes up with:

NEW! Limited Time Only! El Supremo Crispy Cheesy Dorito Nacho Fiestaval Soft Taco!

CPS Troll mixes CPS, cps [sic], psycho abusers, FUCK, sicken [sic], WTF, principles [sic], reform, and FOOD and comes up with post after post of:

getting sicken by these repeated cps stories. I think we need reform. WTF is cps doing? Why aren't there docs and psychologists involved? cps is a county or city program. And what about FOOD? CPS did noting to facilitate and pay for this either. What the fuck does cps do? We need more teachers and learning psychologists at the school. No more principles and that type. And what the fuck is up with a death duala? Why the fuck do we give social workers jobs and health care benefits? getting sicken by these repeated cps stories. I think we need reform. WTF is cps doing? Why aren't there docs and psychologists involved? And what the fuck is up with a death duala? And what about FOOD? CPS did noting to facilitate and pay for this either. What the fuck does cps do?

My God

[R64] do you work for cps?

No, I don't. I agree that CPS is a huge mess and needs to be gutted and rebuilt with the ultimate goal of no child falling though the cracks.

But that doesn't make this unhinged, repetitive word-salad on DL any less tiresome.

[R67] do you have a gun bc I'm scared? You are the troll.

[R64] introducing CPS troll, pro cps troll I think.

look, people can discuss cps if they want too.

I had to block the CPS troll. By the way, good parenting means children/teens should NOT be given direct access to huge amount of money. (Adults, yes; trusts, yes.) Any teen I know with access to large amounts of money burned through it. I didn’t even get an allowance and any money I had I worked for.

money for food, money to spend with friends is not a huge amount of money.

Huh, R72?!

Jenn talks about Devonte proving the psychologists wrong in one of her FB posts, so he was seen at some point in his life. Although she could have been talking about what she had read online written by psychologists.

HRA (Human Resources Admin) issues Medicaid and SNAP in NY.

Social workers tied into food banks, senior centers, etc. help people apply for benefits. You can also apply online.

The HRA offices are full of unhelpful, rude people. It's mostly computerized now, so people wait in line and then find out they have to sit at an old pc and do it all themselves w/o help.

I would think that CPS would encourage people w/ kids to apply for a bunch of different benefits.

The storm is going to be huge. No telling where or if the bodies of the 3 missing kids will turn up.

The sheriff alluded to the unpleasant prospect that the decomposing bodies will balloon up w/ gas and be floating making them more visible than they were closer to the time of the crash.

Why are they not searching the woods? They could be alive still.

They might be searching the woods. They're using drones now.

CHP has been searching the roadside all along the route they drove and the mountain rescue unit from San Mateo County was handling the rougher terrain.

Thank you, R78; it just seemed like everything was concentrated on a sea search. I’m glad it’s not the case.

You have a case of two relatively attractive lesbians being checked in on by probably not so attractive lesbians at CPS. They decide not to do anything.

I shouldn't have made it sound like those are the only two involved in ground searches. There were just under 100 additional search-and-rescue people on Wednesday, from all over.

I just meant that CHP's ground search has been ongoing and the SM County mountain rescue unit was there for a while, too. Marin also sent mountain rescue but I think they were only there for the one day. In general, the mountain crews are a lot better than normal search-and-rescue because they're made up of people with really specific rock-climbing and mountaineering skills, and they train constantly for every possible scenario.

Some big ol happy go lucky retriever will come running down the beach with a head in it's mouth.

A friend and defender of the Harts, named Lance Gry had been posting photos from Jen’s FB timeline. It’s where I got their grocery shopping list.

He had posted a few photos and a long screed from a previous trip the Harts took to Fort Bragg and Glass Beach. There were a few paragraphs about a magical gift shop owner who sold them some “earthly specimens” (they had some weird term for rocks) and was very engaged with the kids. I think that was their destination on this last fateful trip, maybe revisiting happy memories.

I found these photos on The Oregonian’s FB Page, in the comments of articles about the Harts. They have since been removed.

Dude removed his photos (wish I had ss them!). His comments are mostly still there:

“Lance Grȳ 💜Jennifer Hart (and family) were allegedly last seen at Fort Bragg buying bananas in a store (see photo). Fort Bragg is known for its glass stones along the beachside. The Hart kids had a love for discovering ‘Earthy specimens’ (especially glassy stones)...and the Family liked adventures ‘into the Wild’ with few plans...and they ‘avoided interstate highways’.

After the last CPS visit, why would there not be an APB sent out through law enforcement?

R85, I’m sure no one expected the family car to be driven off a cliff.

The CPS people knocked, dropped off their card and went on their merry way. I don’t think they saw this shit coming.

They didn' go on their merry way. They returned twice. And then they learned of the crash.

The neighbor reported withholding food not that the children were in imminent danger. That still resulted in a visit, with LE, within hours. It was the choice of Jenn not to answer the door.

R87, yes, you are correct. I was being facetious. Honestly I give them credit for trying again, but I am sad they didn’t bring police the first time.

They DID have someone from LE with them according to early articles. The 4th Am still requires a warrant for entry. There was no known emergency, so knocking was all that they could do. WA authorities had no information about prior reports in OR or the conviction in MN. The police cannot just barge into your house without a warrant and at that time there was not a basis for one. Had the MN conviction occurred in WA state, that might have been different. CPS continued to try to make contact but Jenn drove them all off a cliff in yet a different state, CA, in the meantime.

I wonder if the bins being stacked to cover the window was to make it harder to see in?

[quote]The group left a burning cross on the family's front yard...

And Del Monte went up and hugged it.

If you call police for a disturbance and they show up and there are kids involved, they will call CPS. CPS has to investigate calls within a mandated time period after receiving reports, pretty sure it ranges from immediate if child is in danger to 24-48 hours to make contact (visit) in most places. It is an intersecting process, not 2 parallel tracks. If you think a kid is in immediate danger, call 911. Here, the neighbors called CPS and using food as a punishment is not the same as hearing a kid being thrown into walls in terms of immediacy. CPS in WA did respond within hours, accompanied by someone from the Sheriffs Dept.

Reforms that could make a difference are to have CPS records follow a family and not to allow those with convictions (different from reports) to homeschool.

Checking in/following. Thanks for a new thread! I’m way behind.

Fraus have invaded this thread.

Cunts.

David Chilly Love (Minnesota) seems to be close to the family. Type the name in on Facebook and he has a lot of photos with the kids. Someone wrote “They loved you so much brother”.

CPS has been fucked up for a long time. Literally, decades. In the past 30 years whenever the worst (meaning the death of children) has been reported there have always been incidents where CPS dropped the ball and were not following through on things. It's generally reported that the caseworkers are completely overburdened. I'm making this up to use as an example, I don't know the actual numbers -- but lets say a caseworker is supposed to have a maximum of 12 cases at a time, the reports are that they are actually dealing with 37. It must be so screwed up from top to bottom and there never seems to have been any major reforms and this applies across the board for all over the U.S.

It's very, very sad but like I said - it's been happening forever.

My aunt is a social worker and she has to be one of the most soulless assholes I've ever known. Over time I've met a few more and all not nice people. I'm starting to suspect that social workers become social workers so they can feel superior to the forsaken. Easy powertrips. Has anyone ever met a social worker who was a good human being?

r97 yes. I also think a lot of them start off good but get exposed to so much crap that they become cynical towards everyone.

My friend works for CPS within the California system. She’s cynical but a good caring person, although emotionally drained, it’s obviously taxing work. A few thoughts from her are that children apparently beg for food often and it’s usually a lie and that the public fear of CPS is misguided.

I’m personally not convinced a knock at the door from CPS was enough to make Jen Hart decide to suddenly drive the family off a cliff.

I am in Texas. Repugs have continually slashed the budgets for all programs affecting kids, including special needs. CPS workers are seriously overburdened and due to laws and budget problems many employees quit. Think about it - how many of you would want to see and handle the abuse knowing that the law favors keeping the child with the parent and there are not enough resources and good foster homes? For the past 5 or 6 legislative sessions all state agencies have been mandated to cut their budgets 4% to 6% each year while the legislature took away full time positions. This was occurring even when Perry was running around talking about the great Texas economy. Abbot was criticized for his further slashes to budgets for the disabled and special needs children and adults and for not wanting to meet with them despite his being in a wheelchair. Stop acting like CPS is some fundamentally evil thing, they are dealing with horrible circumstances and politicians who don't care. Some money will be federal, but the CPS type agencies that would handle this are run and budgeted by the states. Additionally, there was a comment about CPS workers not protesting. In Texas it is against the law for state workers to protest and the statute specifically says you can be fired for protesting. I don't know how it is in the states involved in this situation, but some of what is being discussed here is just factually wrong.

R97, I have known ONE; when we were in our 20s. She was a normal nice person.

There was an obese woman in my neighborhood who used to walk her dog and my kids would always stop to pet her dog and we’d chat. She was a very nice person, but I think she had some degree of mental illness. She had been on medical leave and was trying to get back into social work with a few clients. From what I gleaned of her life over the years, she was a depressed person who was struggling. I don’t see her anymore, I assume she moved away. Really I hope she’s doing better. She was a good listener and was very sweet with the children. But if she got upset about something (she was estranged from her sister), you could see she had a temper.

My friend’s mother was a social worker and was one of the most toxic, narcissistic cunts I’ve EVER met. Awful woman.

The one at my daughter’s middle school was the same. She stepped in for the guidance counselor on maternity leave, and she was a nosy, judgemental and ignorant woman. I only had one conversation with her and was appalled that someone like her was allowed access to children.

The social worker we dealt with when my dad was in the hospital was absolutely useless. Nice enough, but we needed her help and she just handed us a photocopied list of phone numbers. That one was a lump of woo-woo new age garbage.

R101 sad that those the most in need have to rely on what seems like a lot of rotten apples. The idea that my aunt is in charge of the lives of the elderly.... no words. I'm guessing the sensitive good souls that CPA needs are rare to non existent. This whole story is just too sad to handle. Such beautiful children at the mercy of monsters.

Honestly to be a CPA worker must be horrific - Ibet they have seen every degree of inhumanity. Children and the elderly are the victims of everyone in the US. The burnout rate must hit hard and fast. In a perfect world more experienced, say 7-10yr SW should transfer to office work as Supervisor case managers and resource officers. Let the more idealistic individuals work the field.

Totally the fault of the GOP - refusing to pay or respect these services just like school teachers. I expect every single GOP politician with the exception of the very very few moderates all BURN IN HELL. Exactly what they deserve.

CPS is a really thankless job and it attracts people who, lets be honest, not the best and brightest.

Is this thread still active?

Everyone's frustrated with CPS. Years ago, after one too many stories about neglected children falling through the cracks and dying, I became resigned to the way things are. Read a few stories from the perspective of the social workers and from then on, I've shut my trap. The job is low paying, thankless and psychologically damaging. I couldn't do it so pretty hypocritical of me to Monday morning quarterback a case. The only cases that piss me off anymore are the ones where a CPS worker lies about home visits that never occurred.

Ironically, in this family's case, everything was done by the book. Because of the Harts, I've read up on RAD and agree with r99 that those kids are prone to lying. Look at any of the videos and check out their healthy skin tone. There would be a lack of fat in their faces if they were starving. They didn't eat sugar or processed foods so they were thin. I bet if we had a nutritionist weighing in, they wouldn't see any problem based on the pictures.

But, we're all speculating here so that's my opinion and everyone's entitled to their own. Going to take a while to untangle and make sense of this whole saga.

might as well change the name of the post to CPS--frau or foe?

What is wrong with CPS? Why can’t they just give out free healthcare and mental health specialists at the drop of a hat, why are they allowing torture!? WHY are they ok with starving kids? They need proper nutrition and foods! Specialists need to be provided. They need to give out thousands of dollars DIRECTLY to the children in need, instead of their legial guardians, why don’t they get this!? Omg, I can’t take this neglect anymore. Why is the CPS still allowed to exist?!

R108, parents who abuse their children don’t want to stop.

They don’t want to admit they’re wrong. They don’t want anyone telling them how to raise their children. They don’t want “services”. They want to abuse their little punching bags in peace.

It is my understanding that once the adoption is finalized, they are the responsibility of the adoptive parents. They weren't fostering the kids and receiving monthly checks. i'm sure they received adoption tax credits and probably disability benefits for the children that had disabilities but other than that, they were to be treated as if they were the "natural" parents.

R106 if people think you're 7 when you're 14, that's not a diet without processed sugar... it's starvation.

@r109 It was a parody of our new member the “CPS troll”. You were not supposed to take it seriously.

The surf is going to pick up on Saturday evening with 10-16 ft. waves and continue like that until early Sunday morning. It's going to remain high all day Sunday, just not as high as that overnight period....more like 8-12. Primary swells are due east and secondary will be north to northeast throughout the period. Hopefully something will wash up.

Also, it sounds like they shot their wad, for lack of a better term, on ground searches on Wednesday and will be back to focusing almost solely on the post-storm ocean.

Map with timeline

It usually takes about three days for drowning victims to resurface. After a certain amount of time the gases escape and they sink again.

If the kids were in the back without seatbelts and the door came off, probably none would remain in the car. They mentioned that personal effects seemed to have escaped the car as well, washed away by the action of the water. I hope they just turned the dogs loose somewhere. They should check round their home and I guess around the crash site. Maybe at the pound.

What happened about the claim a couple of days ago that someone saw a body or clothing in the rocks, out of reach?

So they packed up the kids after dusk or middle of the night so no one would see them leave - esp the “nosey neighbors” that called for help. Where did they stay after driving 12hrs? Tent camping? Did they break and enter someplace? They werent in a hotel otherwise that would have been discovered. 5 or 8 people camped out in a vehicle to rest? Honestly they need to encourage responsible outdoor oriented locals to search every site in the area conducive to camping. WHAT did they do? Give these kids one last day of life in the out of doors - car camping with a tent off some backwoods country road? Surely someone saw them. If they had tents with them in the car- nylon - I believe they would have largely remained buoyant.

Since they passed that lookout on the way South - they already picked it out for horrific purposes. “Is this the spot Sarah?” These kids had moved so many times - but now Devonte’ knew he was in trouble big time. I really hope they drugged these kids so they werent full on terrified compared to the usual average state of anxiety- omg. I dont know that i believe in Heaven or Hell - but these two bitches? I really really hope they are in Hell.

R116 here I think they camped and left the animals and gear behind. Sort of a “we wil comeback and get them - we are just running into town” or something.

[quote]Is this thread still active?

No, it's been archived, and anyone replying to it is being banned.

Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes is not a very involved game. I haven't played it for a couple of years so I'm sure they've added features but it's not the kind of MMO like WoW where you can spend all your time grinding and playing. It's free to play so they limit the number of battles you can actually do at any one time. It's essentially Clash of Clans or Farmville. I'm guessing the guilds are like in Clash of Clans where your scores are added together but you don't actually play the game together like a raiding guild in WoW would.

In animal rescue there is a repeated pattern of people who start with good intentions and often do fine for years At some point they take on too much, become overwhelmed and become abusers themselves. and often these people have fine intentions but as things get worse and they cannot cope, they lose perspective on the conditions they are living in and the actual welfare of their charges.

I still don't know why they would snap at the prospect of another CPS investigation. I still think it's possible that they were abusive parents and had an accident after many hours of driving and being sleep deprived. It's not that I believe they were great people, I just think shit happens sometimes.

R97, my mom was a CPS worker in Florida for years when I was young (though it was called HRS back then). It was a pretty soul crushing job. She cried a lot. I remember she once had to bring a newborn home overnight to sleep in our house. The baby still had her umbilical nubbin attached. She never told me why. I can't imagine having to see the worst humanity has to offer day in and day out, while simultaneously not being given the resources to properly address it when that's your job.

R120 yeah sometimes GPS is off. And sometimes the evil KKK burns crosses on saintly lesbian mom lawns. And sometimes parents are sociopaths, liars, and kill their kids.

Sarah could have done better. I guess she was stuck in a crazy relationship.

We don't know that she was in on it. Jenn could have killed her. It could have been very spur of the moment on her part. She was still buying bananas and using a points card.

And maybe it was an accident?

If I were married to someone who beat my kids, I wouldn't run away from the police with those kids.

You defenders should be ashamed of yourselves.

[quote]What happened about the claim a couple of days ago that someone saw a body or clothing in the rocks, out of reach?

They searched that area with divers on Wednesday and found nothing.

I wouldn’t be surprised if details about their marriage being in trouble surfaces in the next few days, it would be the final straw for jenn. The CPS breathing down their neck, possibly losing the kids, and Sarah too, made her suicidal. The details about Jenn being the driver, still buckled in, and Sarah trapped between the roof and the back seat suggest that Sarah was not wearing a seatbelt. Jenn pulls over and stops, all the other occupants of the car thinks they are going to stretch their legs and prepares to exit. But Jenn has other plans and floors it towards the cliff. Maybe even locking all the doors preventing them from leaving. My guess anyway. It’s too evil to think they were both in on it.

[quote]My aunt is a social worker and she has to be one of the most soulless assholes I've ever known. Over time I've met a few more and all not nice people.

I agree. My lesbian niece is a social worker, she is not empathetic and very moody.

and they are all in the union

It could have been an accident, i kind of doubt it though. I said that early on. That they pulled off and sat there for a few minutes is of concern, like they prayed or something.

all the people that believe this was an accident are followers of Nahko

They now believe all the children were in the car when it crashed:

[quote]"Information obtained through interviews with family and friends indicated it was rare for the family to be apart, especially while traveling," a news release from the sheriff's office says. "That information coupled with the other children being recovered outside of the vehicle ... supports the possibility that the missing children were swept away from the crash scene by the Pacific Ocean."

Does anyone know for sure if these Moms received govt assistance for the kids? I understand that all of the kids were legally adopted - which means that all foster payments stop. Right?

I’m just trying to make sense of this. The easiest explanation is that the moms were freaking out about loss of income if CPS took the kids away, but from what I know about adoptions, all foster payments stop upon adoption.

For kids with sn and for sibling groups the payments can be up to 80% of what would be spent on foster care. For disabilities they may continue past 18.

I think they were also worried about possible jail/prison time. Sarah had already gotten a 90 day sentence, which was suspended, back in MN. As soon as the terms of her probation were finalized, the kids were pulled from public school the next day, never to return. A teacher had reported the extensive bruising on the front and back of the child in 2010. There were other CPS reports and investigations too.

They were about to go from being loving racial justice heroes to being exposed as monsters. Death, framed to possibly be seen as an accident, or in some culty drive into the ocean to be free lyric from their bud Nahko, seemed like a better option.

This case just makes me feel heartsick. I keep hoping that the missing 3 escaped w/ the dogs but now that hope is fading.

The timeline still isn't clear but authorities say Jenn was at the small market in Ft. Bragg in the morning and the at some point they traveled back north. Could the kids have been asleep in sleeping bags w/ the seats collapsed? They all had such a hard life before their adoption, during their short lives w/ the moms and then when the SUV was barreling off the cliff.

I live in an affluent area of the Upper Westside of Manhattan. Lots of the kids are what I would consider "skinny minnies" much thinner than I was in CA or my classmates. The Hart girls' collarbones showing was bad, though and the Devonte's distended stomach - not good. But I have seen AA boys w/ skinny legs and arms, here.

The grocery list didn't have any protein. Could they misspellings have been a joke?

Devonte asked the neighbors for "cured meat" so I don't know if the Harts for vegetarians, vegans or not. Could one of their health problems or skinniness have stemmed from not enough protein?

The bins in the window don't mean much. That could have been a storage room. The house looked very clean.

I'd feel guilty if I were Nahko. I'd hate that anything I created would prompt people to commit suicide/mass murder. I guess it's like Peggy Lee's "Is that All There Is?" or Billie Holiday's "Gloomy Sunday."

Devonte looking back at Jenn's camera as the kids hiked down to the waterfall didn't bother me. He was just looking for direction from his mom, Jenn, the video director, as to what the kids were supposed to be doing.

It reminded me of the prompting of Harper Beckham, "Run" in directing her to run away from the camera in the flower field. Although of course, the Beckhams don't withhold food and haven't killed their kids.

The Turpins and Harts are a huge wakeup call. States need to check up on homeschooling and reform CPS.

If I saw a kid being abused, I'd be tempted to tell 911 they are in imminent danger just to be safe and protect the kid(s).

Several posters have compared the Harts to the Jackson family. I agree. Jenn saw the value in having the kids (especially Devonte) perform as it helped her photography + video business, she was the abuser but Sara was the enabler. Just like Katherine Jackson, she didn't step in, protect the kids and leave the abuser.

[quote]The bins in the window don't mean much. That could have been a storage room.

With two adults and six teenagers in three-bedroom, 1,300 sq. ft. house, I’m guessing they didn’t have room for a dedicated storage room.

In my experience, people who are seriously concerned about children call both the police and CPS, however, mean, vindictive people who know damn well there is no cause for concern call CPS alone. People I know had CPS called on them because their nasty old frau of a neighbor saw the kids running and playing in the backyard (fenced backyard) alone, and because their daughter, who was like five or six didn't have a shirt on.

Besides the dead Hart kids, the sorriest I feel is for the neighbor lady, deKalb. Can you imagine the pain of thinking your call to the authorities may have triggered this mass murder when all you were trying to do was help abused kids?

It's going to be awful if it is revealed that Jenn went off bi-polar meds to save money , causing her to flip out.

I'm conflicted about the no-computer access for the kids. Silicon Valley titans bar their kids from using computers until after age 8. Many send their kids to Montessori schools that have no computers. The Hart kids were behind in the age they appeared and most likely were behind in learning skills. They looked to be creative---although the videos were centered on the boys and not the girls.

Jenn playing the Star Wars internet games were no doubt a stress release. She may have done it after the kids were asleep. What time do teens go to bed these days?

R137

I have only known about one instance of a friend's sister reporting child abuse to CPS (molestation by a family member). It was the right thing to do but blew the family apart. The reporting relative was shunned by the others for years.

There’s still so many questions. Has anyone claimed the bodies? Did they establish a time of death? I feel as though they are being very tight-lipped about this case.

There are lots of reasons why people are reluctant to report neighbors to the authorities. Sometimes, you're not sure of your suspicions, you're afraid of making things worse for the victims and you have to continue to live next door to the people you reported and you fear they will retaliate against you.

I called the cops once in LA because I heard a woman across the street being beaten by her boyfriend. The f-ing cops came up to my front door after knocking on their door. Thanks, assholes. Now they know who called you. I still felt like I had to make that call. It's not worth a woman dying or being injured.

If Devonte was asking for “preserved meats” he may have been under the mistaken impression that he could hide lunchmeat in the kids’ rooms and it wouldn’t need refrigeration. Tortillas and peanut butter don’t need refrigeration if you eat them pretty fast. Six kids can eat a lot in a short time. I wonder if the cops searched under the kids’ beds and in their closets. I bet there was food from the neighbors hidden away from the parents.

Just because the two moms were vegan doesn’t mean the kids wanted to be. They might have been perfectly happy with a burger. They were the kids of drug addicts weren’t they? What drug addict is eating a “healthy” diet? They probably grew up on Fruity Pebbles, Kool Aid and McDonalds, and were glad to get it, before they got into foster care. They didn’t get a choice about becoming vegans though.

And for growing kids, especially in the teen years, going through a growth spurt, to get no protein and dairy, no wonder they couldn’t grow! You need calcium to grow your bones. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had brittle bones.

R140

I don't understand why the authorities can't just say that the black box indicates that the car went over the cliff at ____ blank time.

I think the Mendocino Sheriff's poster is very lame w/ the circled missing kids. How about showing more photos of the missing kids and family. The market photo didn't look like the Jenn of the photos. Did the kids look different than what we've seen?

Are the 2 sets of bio parents still alive or their relatives?

Who is in Seattle? Why did Hannah ask the neighbors to take her to Seattle?

I only knew of Nahko through Standing Rock benefit concerts.

Due to the Turpins, Hart Family and Parkland Shooter Cruz, there is a new awareness of RAD, total lack of protection and oversight of fostered , adopted kids and homeschooled kids.

.....

Speaking of the biological parents,anybody else just waiting for the lawsuits?

R144

I've read several versions of Devonte's hugging photo.

I think that the person who took that photo said Devonte was already crying before the photo was taken. The photographer said Devonte was upset and crying in front of the line of policemen. Then, he walked forward or the cop walked toward Devonte and started talking to him.

I believe this to be true but I'm sure that would qualify as being staged.

I think that you can never underestimate the power of racism and discrimination. Devonte did experience more shit in his short life than many of us.

The hugging of strangers is weird and the hippie festival stuff is a bit creepy. But my mother was a hugger. She came from 2 remote, undemonstrative parents. When is hugging nourishing and validating and when does it turn into sexual and deviant pedo stuff?

typo: not sure it was staged.

i do think jenn relished in it but was that so bad?

the cop spoke to him and hugged him

preserved meat is probably stuff like beef jerky.

pepperoni

stuff you get in the unrefrigerated section of the supermarket.

Jenn herself is smirking in the background of the hug snap.

R140, the coroner (who is also the sheriff in Mendocino County) hasn't released the bodies yet.

As I am learning about RAD (I knew a bit about food insecurity), I want to know whether the stunted growth of the Harts happened before or after they were adopted. Is this something that happens within the first few of life or was this because they weren't getting enough nourishment living w/ Jenn and Sara?

cured ham and beef and salami as well, aren't refrigerated.

R152

Are you serious? Is the Mendocino Sheriff also the coroner? Holy shit! I have ZERO confidence in that guy.

CPS is a local agency and they show up with the police. The neighbors said they have been called before and they did nothing, so the neighbors called the state authorities. The local CPS released the friendly images of them to the press. The state authorities are releasing all their past child abuse crimes.

When CPS said they did not know about the family and never received any calls prior, the neighbors said that cps is lying. Local cps is embeded with the local police.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R154, that’s what I was thinking he meant, but other than jerky, once you open the package it has to be refrigerated. Unless he meant canned tuna or Vienna sausages or something they could eat in one sitting.

RE: Devonte hugging the cop.

What I read is that Devonte was crying looking at the line of cops. He was motioned forward by the white cop in the photo anwho started to make small talk (this according to jenn). Devonte said something about being afraid that that cops are killing black people and the cop replied. "I'm sorry." then the hug took place.

I will never know the pain that Devonte and his 5 siblings faced. I'm not so sure the public acclaim hurt them. it could have been validating after a short life of being treated like shit. whether jenn and sara profited from or missed it that -- then that is it their sin. these kids deserved any recognition, hugs, accolades, praise, food treats. i think they did believe in what their signs said about love. i believe it. it is so sad that they were murdered after what they had endured.

[quote]Just because the two moms were vegan doesn’t mean the kids wanted to be [....] They didn’t get a choice about becoming vegans though.

Where has it been determined that they were vegan? There are pictures of the kids in a restaurant eating eggs and sausage, another of of them with a frozen chocolate cream pie, and a (now locked) FB post by Jenn about eggs from their chickens. Apart from DL talking about veganism, the only mention of diet I've seen was a brainwashed friend who said they were wonderful mothers because they fed the kids healthy food and didn't allow sugar.

R155, Tom Allman's title is "Sheriff-Coroner." It's not uncommon in CA for the sheriff to be both.

Sea Rancher DLer, thank you for your posts. I grew up in the Bay Area but never had seen Sea Glass Beach. It looked so lovely at first. Then, I thought, omg, there must be tons of bottled glass waste in our oceans. Then, I read the history of the trash heap and I felt very sad.

But... the colored glass does look magical and I wanted the Hart kids to experience it and now I read that they had seen it in a previous trip.

The Hart kids are not trash to be hurled into the ocean. Those poor kids. Sara allowed herself to be designated as "Thing 8" but those adopted, at-risk kids deserved better.

I think someone may have mentioned in a previous thread---what is up with the oldest boy's extremely wide jowels? Is that a birth defect due to parents' drug use?

R158

i keep praying that the 3 most able kids stockpiled food (peanut butter, apples, tortillas) + maybe canned tuna or something and then ran off w/ the dogs into the woods.

it sounds like a cat and the chickens were left behind and rescued.

sea glass is a thing, among new age con artists. People make jewelry from it and lie about it origins, usually saying it was ancient glass.

R160. Be careful. When you posr meaningful observations the fraus start screaming you're a defender. Too many loons here to count.

And yes, your observations are correct.

i've been on dl for years and never experienced so many cunty responses to my posts, at least not in typical dl fashion. they need to go back to websleuths

[quote]Then, I read the history of the trash heap and I felt very sad.

Yeah, it's crazy to think that beaches used to be used as official town dumps and had also been unofficial dumping grounds going way back, but the glass has actually been good for the environment because as it wears down in the surf there's a release of the minerals that were used to color it.

There's a really robust ecosystem in the area of the three dump beaches and it drops off as you get farther away from them. That's always seemed so odd to me considering the rest of the junk and toxic waste that was dumped there.

R166

Have there been any new updates about the search? I don't really get how the sheriff maintains that Devonte and the 2 girls were most certainly dead because friends said the family always traveled together in the SUV. WTF?

Missing posters have been distributed. I hope that they are found alive.

I read that Sierra and Devonte are twins. Wonder why the moms did not play that up? They are 2 of the missing. Wonder why it was believed that Sierra was 12? Jenn and Sarah are the types who are lying if their mouths are moving.

A heavy SUV like that probably impacted the rocky shore twice - hitting so hard a door was ripped off. Light weight children would have been flung out in a nano second - also dont forget the tide was HIGH, like 6 feet high. Images we see are from low tide. There was at least one high tide - maybe two to wash every single out of the vehicle. Unless you have swam in an area like this, full of boulders that create their own potent stormy currents you have no idea how powerful, those currents are. They sucked every single item out of the vehicle.

My friend said not long before this she met a kid working at a Portland area grocery as a bag boy named Davonte then she saw the pic and said she thinks it was him...could he have been working I wonder(Fred Meyer store) -on a side note I ignored the troll and noticed it eliminated a lot of posts

No. Nothing new that I've heard, r167, but I'm on the Peninsula now anyway. I was planning to go up tonight but I think the weather is too crappy.

I'm not sure why they were so cagey in the beginning about their reasons for believing that all six kids went over the cliff. They kept saying that there was no reason to believe they weren't in the SUV, friends said they always traveled together, blah blah blah, but for some reason they really downplayed the locations of the bodies and why that made them think it was likely that the missing kids were swept away. I just don't understand why they didn't come out and say it upfront. It may have cleared up a lot of questions in the public's mind.

For those who aren't aware: two bodies were immediately visible outside of the SUV, but the third was in the water, between rocks, and partially submerged. They didn't find it right away. The belief that it would have been pulled out at high tide by the current had it not been been stuck just so is what led them to suspect the others most likely didn't get caught in rocks and were swept away. So why not just say that?

Have they specified just how long the car was stopped before it sped up and went over the cliff? Seconds, minutes?

Someone asked if I think the other kids are alive--sadly no as they were under the abusive control of a narcissist. God only knows what she threatened them with. This is very dark. Whts telling is all the signage about being kind when the moms ere clearly not.

In a crash energy moves toward the point of impact then away from it almost as forcefully. Like whiplash, for example.

So car slams into rocks, all bodies slam forward then move forcefully away from point of impact. This is when bodies are ejected depending on their place in the car and the areas of the car open to the outside like broken or dislodged windows/doors

I would think the other three kids were in the car as well and they'll eventually be discovered by some drunken queens walking the beach within 60 days.

I have been researching this horrid crime since the day it was reported. . Sheriff Barney and Officer Allman were previously charged with running a sex swap ring. Barney prostituted his wife out to other guys and the officers. You can look this up if you really want to know the truth. They are not to be trusted. I believe the three children that are missing were probably trafficked. These 2 women did not make enough money to pay for the homes they lived in. They adopted these children to pull in money from the state. Believe me you get a lot of money from that many children. Also they moved after the child abuse charge. Hint Hint. I don't know what happened to them or the other 3 children, but I would not believe Barney or Allman. Oh, and btw, Allman is also the coroner.

I think they were abducted by aliens R175

What is strange to me is that a poster said earlier in this thread that the sheriff had released a poster about the 3 missing/endangered kids. Was this yesterday or the day before? Anyway, I went to the Mendocino Sherriff's website and couldn't find the damn poster! It wasn't in the press release section or anywhere else. It wasn't until hours later, someone poster the poster where Devonte and the 2 girls had their bodies circled in the photograph.

Time is of the essence. Why isn't there an Amber Alert or something? Why aren't there better posters requesting help from the public that are easy to find online. It is all baffling, amateur. The wording and main title are terrible.

They're in the ocean, Rose.

From 2010 but still...wow.

Looks like these poor abused kids were going to be thrown into this system by the local cps. Thankfully, the neighbors throw a wrench into the plan. CPS did not even help the kids with food or getting enrolled into the local school.

Can someone explain what cps actually does for fostered and adopted children?

The payments were being made to Jenn, which would explain why Sarah took the fall, but later in the article it says the two of them adopted the kids.

[quote]An Oregon woman found dead at the base of a Northern California cliff with her spouse and three of their adopted children late last month likely received more than $270,000 from the state of Texas to help care for the adopted children, according to a Texas newspaper.

[quote]The San Antonio Express-News reports the state paid a Jennifer Jean Hart monthly adoption subsidies for her adopted children over the past decade. Hart got nearly $1,900 each month, most recently in March, the newspaper reports.

[quote]Most families who adopt children out of foster care from Texas get monthly payments that range from $400 to $545 per child to help cover care costs until the child turns 18, according to the newspaper.

[quote]Jennifer and Sarah Hart adopted all six of their children from Texas.

Someone on twiitter is saying the kids were pushed off the cliff

I think people are saying anything because there isn't a lot of information

I'm obsessed with these ditzy hippies right now so I tried listening to some of the musicians they were starfucking. Nahko is unlistenable. However, I've had Spirit Bird by Xavier Rudd stuck in my head for days.

I taught at Columbia School of Social Work for a few years and was stunned by how stupid social workers and social workers in training were. At the time, Columbia was the number one school. So I'm never surprised now when I hear CPS fail children and lies about it.

this is from "Spirit Bird":

"Many tribes of a modern kind, Doing brand new work, same spirit by side, Joining hearts and hand and ancestral twine, ancestral twine"

Nakho talks about tribes, too

........

Columbia SSW had a contract to train social workers already working for the city. Right? So its not like an ivy league crowd of the creme de la creme in intelligence.

So just for funsies, I looked into the lawsuit against Barney and Allman. It sounded like some tinfoil hat shit, and I love some crazy. I’m not buying the whole enchilada, but it sounds like everything wasn’t quite right, either.

I’m not sure if those past shenanigans affect Allman’s ability to get some answers in this case. It is odd that they’ve changed the facts about a few things, though.

It seems they had spent so much time running from CPS wherever they went that I wonder if they just got in the car to go away for a few days. That was a long trip and I imagine they were pretty tired. When Jen saw that turn off is maybe when the idea came to her that instead of having to run all the time to just end it. If one was planning on killing themselves and their kids in a car accident would one drive all that distance to do it when they could have just as easily done it closer to home?

R181, those payments are tax free.

I do not buy that Devonte was hanging all over unrelated adult men due to RAD, in videos you can often hear Jenn commanding/prompting it. Often he is crying when doing it, RAD does not look like that. Boasting of him giving thousands of free hugs to strangers is just not good parenting. The free hug adult guy wanted to meet Devonte after reading that he was inspired by him. Jenn said that it would interfere with his school schedule. The only people allowed to get closer than images were this curated group of new age musicians and their hanger ons it seems. They cut off family and friends in MN and in her fb post made it sound like even the hippies no longer had their current phone numbers.

There is another musician they were tight with, Tubby Love. I kid not.

Many people are posting #protect the community, were they into some kind of cult like thing? It all seems kinda Jonestownish. Did the women use the kids, esp D, to get close to these musicians, Bernie, etc?

The behavior or physical intimacy on command is grooming. There is one pic where D is laying on one of the guys, Max, maybe, in a tent of people. The discomfort of many is clear on their faces.

Someone is calling Nahko pedo bear on Twitter and has referred to their little Bohemian Grove, cannot rule it out. Cannot rule out trafficking either, although the kids probably got washed out to sea.

Jenn made the self pitying post on FB and kept repeating rebuild, time, trust. Anyone else get a vibe of all not being well between the women? Acting like the new home would be some solution, AA calls that a geographic cure, it does not work. Sarah was pretty and left the house, maybe she took up with some woman or guy? They do not seem very close in images.

R189, they had to leave on Fri before CPS came back. Ft Bragg was said to hold some happy memories, maybe that is why they headed there?

What about her mod at Kohl’s? Since she was a manager, chances are she had to work evenings and weeekends? Did she call in sick, ask for time off? Was this a pre-planned trip or spur of the moment? Enquiring minds want to know!

This is a group that they were part of - supposedly travelling back from OR.

Seems like most of the pics stopped a few years ago, but there are a lot of videos with them at these events.

Is this some culty group?

I can smell that picture.

[quote]I believe the three children that are missing were probably trafficked.

The fraus, they’re here!

In addition to the tax free $ from TX, they may also have received SSI payments, and those may not stop at 18. The children would also be eligible for Medicaid, I imagine.

They were not living on just Sarahs salary from Kohls and $1900 per month from TX. The house cost $375,000.

R190, I had the same thoughts.

What strikes me is all the MEN.

I can’t claim to be an expert on lesbians at all, but the lesbians I know tend to keep company with mostly WOMEN. They listen to music made by women. They align with feminist political action.

The most ardent and tenacious Hart defenders are male. I don’t see any women on FB comments who are still sticking up for them.

The pro pedo crowd wandered over from a nambla thread at R196. Fuck off!

Trafficking of kids is far more common than most would like to think. Many in the crowd they ran in were abused as kids, were foster kids, etc. The Hart kids were not being taught appropriate boundaries with adults, esp Devonte. The mom commanded, Dont you want to hug Nahko? They used the kids to get attention from the stars of their culty world and overtly groomed him. If it was coming from RAD he would not need to be told and he would not be crying so much. They posted the 12 year old dancing in his underpants, publically, on Youtube, which according to An Open Secret is a common advertising technique. They beat, starved and murdered them, so they had few scruples. Trafficking in images used to involve photographers but has exploded with common technology. The US is a leader in production of images of kids, with white kids being most commonly trafficked in images and kids of color, in person. Trafficking by family members is common too, ask Nahkos mom.

Yep, R198, the men are vehement, there are also a lot of posts tagged #protect the community

In the photo of D laying on top of a man in a tent, Max maybe? you can see some of the women in the circle around them looking uncomfortable.

Parents teach kids about healthy boundaries, Devonte was literally trained to have none with men. I have not seen photos of him hanging on women. The directed physical intimacy was not about relationships or male mentoring, when the Free Hugs guy wanted to meet with D, Jenn told him it would interfere with his school schedule. The kid had not been in school in YEARS.

I think they were drawn into the festival circles because there was no other community and they were overwhelmed with six kids.

I don't think it has to do with "trafficking" or other bizarre scenarios.

[quote]In the photo of D laying on top of a man in a tent, Max maybe? you can see some of the women in the circle around them looking uncomfortable.

link?

An assistant manager at Kohl's makes over 50K? Not too bad

I doubt that they do

Max Ribner is one of the people going hardest, think he is the one who wants to make a movie about them? He plays in Nahkos band. He is actually a really young guy, some of that crowd are older. Max has a song called something like Gym N Juice

R200, I’m not getting into *trafficking* theories, but I will 100% agree that there is an unusual number of images with Devonte having physical contact with men. I saw one where D is posing piggyback on (ANOTHER) photographer.

It gave me pause. How does that come about? I don’t know a single teenage boy who’d want to do that. (I can’t speak for gaylings).

They constantly made contact with the stars of that world using the kids.

The festival pics seemed to end in 2014 though.

The Gym N Juice song

I read at least two women that stuck up for them

There are no real "women's political groups" in the countryside or smaller cities and in bigger cities they are all divided for being taken over by some other cause. This isn't 1972 or even 1982.

Max and 2 of the boys, from 2014. Wonder how recently any of their festival and social media friends had seen them?

This does not look like Max or Nahko. Think it is Tubby Love?

Some of the women look uncomfortable to me.

Sarah and Jenn are by the microphone stand.

This thread has melted down to pure histrionics and fan fiction about trafficking and cults. Come on now.

Why would anyone need to avenge Jenns death? She murdered at least 4 if not 7 people.

I am surprised that hippies are such heavy users of social media.

Tubby Love and the kids

The women seem to have used the kids as kinda groupies by proxy, dressing them to stand out and putting them by the stage, contacting the musicians on social media using images of the kids.

The posters online all seem to mention Jenn, not sure I have seen any friends of Sarah posting or that the defenders speak of her.

we can't see facebook stuff

[quote]The pro pedo crowd wandered over from a nambla thread at [R196]. Fuck off!

Holy shit. You are literally insane.

An altar to a mother letting go of the spirit of her child. Guess that is Tubby Love/Nahko crowd speak for murder...

R210, I’m wondering about the tarp. Was... moisture ... anticipated?

This has a mugshot of Sarah Hart dated December 2017. Sure looks like her. Can anyone in WA find out more info?

A tarp on top of rugs seems slippery as hell.

That whole scene is odd AF.

Nahko is kinda hot though.

R213, it was The Jen and Davonte Show.

There are public posts tagging Sarah, but not even close to tags for Jen. My husband posts on FB a lot. I never do.

R218, I think that was from the 2011 MN child abuse case. Don’t know why it’s dated 12/2017, but those two sources (Everipedia and Scholarly Sentinel) aren’t exactly bastions of journalistic credibility.

Odd how she is all glammed up for her mugshot.

That would make sense though.

Reaching out to Xavier using Devonte

For people who cannot see the pics which were posted on FB, not sure how/where else to upload them so they can be seen? Suggestions?

The card to Xavier also included a snap of the 2 min hug onstage with Devonte in the girls zebra costume. Just in case he needed the reminder. Jenn posted that he made it for HER to give to Xavier at an adult only show of his she was going to attend. I had a friend once who was a big groupie, have never seen people use kids as such an in though.

Elsewhere on FB a former retail colleague posted that Jenn and Sarah had a foster daughter as far back as 2004, they started with the system right out of college. Jenn at that time also worked retail.

Promoting the brand, laying it on THICK in 2015

There is some speculation that the Harts and their defenders had ties to this group. The article is behind a paywall but you can get a free 30 day pass from the NR website. I know little about cults. The #defend the community hashtag does stick out.

Wild, Wild Country, the documentary chronicling the activities of the cult of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh in Oregon during the first half of the 1980s currently streaming on Netflix, makes a significant step forward in filmic presentation of this bizarre and unsettling story. There have been two previous attempts to accomplish that challenging task. The first attempt, thankfully lost in the mists of history, played like outright pro-Rajneesh propaganda. The second, underwritten by the Oregon Public Broadcasting system several years back, all but exonerated the cult of its multitudinous wrongdoings; technically inept to boot, it was a fiasco for which the station’s financial supporters should have called the management of OPB to stern account.

These folks announced that they are making a film to basically venerate the Hart family. Anyone know anything about them?

Sharkeye Productions, Vanjam Productions and Align Media

Another story by Jen about Devonte, her Magical Negro

Are they calling it one of the most baffling events our country has ever seen? Is that coded language for something? Sure seems like it.

Hard to forget the Nahko song about driving into the ocean to be free.

R229, Others in that crowd call Devonte a prophet who had to be stopped before he could disrupt the system.

Meanwhile the poor kids was just trying to keep himself and his sibs fed with some tortillas and peanut butter.

They are actually in the Bernie with Magical Bird clip look above his left shoulder

I guess it is his right shoulder. To the viewer it is the left of him by his shoulder/head

What did Jenn post about Devonte in 2017? Cannot read it.

How were these kids supposed to support themselves as adults? Wonder if they were getting any education.

What do people make of this?

R232, that’s the second time they’ve been in the frame behind Bernie.

they are in this clip, too

R234, here ya go.

I think Devonte is seen a lot with men because he probably gravitated towards them since there were no males in his life. The picture of him crying with the cop, every time I see it I feel like he is crying because he wants that cop to rescue him and take him home and crying for what he knows he doesn't have.

Any relation?

Good point R239, but with regard to the men who are musicians or even the cop, Jenn specifically prompted him to hug them. It can be heard in some of the videos. Dont you want to hug Nahko, etc.

I thought hippies were anti political parties but they went hard for Bernie.

Jenn sure knew how to work the visual impact of the kids. Are we sure there is not a Paetron account out there?

R235, I’m glad Devonte at least got some recognition for being denied birthday presents.

And I’m learning a lot about these alternative communities and festival circuit people. It’s just so far from my own experience and chosen lifestyle, it’s teally eye-opening.

Jenn aged really badly. Was Sarah getting some on the side? Jenn easily looked a decade older than Sarah recently despite them being said to be 38.

The culty hippies act like Devonte had the thought on the sign as a tot. They treat him like Yoda but he was literally a prop for Jenn. She is in the background of the cop photo too.

Agree, R242, they are like carnies with trance music. There is a really dark undercurrent. Nahko is kinda hot though.

R225:

“Elsewhere on FB a former retail colleague posted that Jenn and Sarah had a foster daughter as far back as 2004, they started with the system right out of college. Jenn at that time also worked retail.“

I’d love to hear more about that!

R243, even in earlier photos, Jen looked much older than her supposed age. Someone mused she was ten years older, which I could certainly buy. Just because they were in college together doesn’t mean they were the same age...

I’m assuming that police identified her using her drivers license, which should have her real age. ?? Maybe she just had one of those faces.

There do seem to be links between the festivals and the cult profiled by Netflix and in TNR. It is a captive audience to recruit from I guess and they seem like a very prone to suspending reality crowd.

From Twitter, re Beloved Festival, the one with the 2 min hug with Xavier Rudd while Devonte sobbed

Deva Premal apparently helps run the festival, and met her partner through following Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho)

Besides Nahko singing about driving into the ocean to be free, there seem to be other water & ocean themes in the music.

R246, the press has said both were 38, dunno.

Appearance is everything!

In another tweet she said the first foster daughter would be in her late 20s now, Jenn and Sarah fostered her in 2004, so a tween?

R249, can’t see what you posted.

Take a screenshot and go to www.imgbb.com and upload it. Copy the link they give you and post it here.

Please!

David Chilly Love, another friend, has a lot of pics of the kids up on his Facebook. Jennifer has a brother Christopher Hart, so it does seem to be her name. The hippy festivals they were into were in MN and OR, they seem to have been really disconnected even from those social connections for a while.

R250, the original tweeter does not seem to have it up anymore. Basically it says that the poster worked in retail with both Jenn and Sarah and that she, the poster worked at the Clinique counter. They brought the young foster girl in for a makeover, which the poster did. She seemed very sad and they seemed unsympathetic, to lack empathy.

The link you posted wanted me to download software so no can do, sorry. But this is what she said. She also said that the foster daughter would be in her late 20s now, so I guess a young teen? Jenn must have been so happy with the advent of social media, it fits so well with her appearances are everything world view.

[quote] fits so well with her appearances are everything world view.

she isn't the only one

the whole hippy festival scene is a mixture of groupthink, self-righteousness, marijuana and depression

R252, thanks, I understand. Things I’ve seen posted have been taken down or made private.

I wonder where that foster child is now. It would be interesting to see what she’d have to say.

Devonte being manhandled at his birthday celebration in MN.

There are 144 photos and Sarah is not present in any of them. I guess she was scouting for a job and new home in OR? This was in 2012.

Again

Same event: the child has been missing her teeth for 6 years.

R226 "and so we embarked on a weekend of unknown destinations and exploration with discovery and wonder in every breath. "

these wacko killers generate so many many macabre details

Did not think you literally meant handled by men.

I would think she would come back for his birthday?

I wonder if they split several times. The post about rebuilding time and trust repeated over and over.

They list an estimated weight on Sierras missing person poster. I googled, it is not even on the chart for a 12 year old and now it has come out that she was really 15? They were dyke Terpins starving those kids to keep them smaller, weaker and thus bring more adulation to Jenn for as long as possible.

The costumes they wore, the accessories, it was like their life was one big photo shoot.

If Jenn did leave them alone, wonder if there was a kid left in charge. Markis looks like he has disabilities maybe?

I hope to hell those kids were sleeeping and not singing We Are So Provided For to their god Nahko as they went to freedom in the ocean. Jenn and Sarah look very conventional and uptight, not like the other women in that crowd. Hope more of their backstory comes out.

R254. You've described Wall Street

r261, there is no fucking way those children were seeing pediatricians once a year.

And, r261, I’ve been thinking about Jen leaving the kids alone. She must have. And I really really wonder if she didn’t restrain them or sequester them when she did.

Or perhaps she trusted Devonte to be in charge while she was gone.

I’ve also been thinking about the pecking order of the kids. I’m certain Devonte was the Golden Child and Sierra was the scapegoat.

The last sentence of this piece really struck me.

At R265: "The notion that queer folks should not adopt is one I am not willing to indulge."

R266 - I read that too and was flabbergasted by the open homophobia. It is interesting that in her fictitious intersectional morality plays about class and race, she does not discuss how they would be treated if they were a heterosexual couple,

Max Ribner seems to be a CT trust fund type.

If you looked at any of the social media about the case or comments at the articles, there is the predictable response from some opposing gay and lesbian parenting. How is NOT jumping on that bandwagon and stating so, openly homophobic?

If they were alive, they would likely be treated similarly to the Terpins. Their culty friends think the world needs more parents like them, hope not many of them have kids.

She brings it up, R269. It is passive-aggressive.

She says she disagrees and reframes the issue as about abuse of kids. Still not seeing the open homophobia from her. Have you seen the actual open homophobia she is responding to? As though people like the Terpins do not ALSO beat and starve their children.

I blocked R175 prob a 4Chan, freak. Suggest all do the same.

If the Sheriff has a shady past, seems relevant, no?

I blocked you instead R273.

Cannot tell if Max is dippy or dim or both. Mother Theresa invoked re parents who did a Thelma & Louise with 6 kids in tow? Maybe Ghandi links to the starvation but for the kids it was not self imposed. I had no idea that this festival world existed. Thought cults went out with the 70s, but no, according to TNR.

He must not be worried about this impacting his career, he even called the neighbors in WA and bitched at them for calling CPS, that was picked up in some early stories. Pretty ballsy thing to do. At least THEY tried to help the kids. Max uses them for promotion to a niche market, just like Jenn.

------------------------------------

The Greatest Teachers....

Our little Wolf PaK. We thank you for your wisdom. We thank you for your deep innocence. We thank you for your courage. We thank you for to two mother hens who helped bring you back to life. We know you're watching over us know... Smiling, Dancing, Hopping, Hugging, Crying, Giggling... Laughing at the goofiest little obscure things. Walking as a unit....like one star. Shining to every human that you've met. Sharing to strangers. Giving to humanity. Caring for the planet. Understanding global, social and racial issues...

The world needs to know your legacy. Of how through struggle, you have gotten a chance to know what following your gifts looks like. Of what dancing to musical medicine looks like. Of what supporting political marches and racial equality looks like. Of what looking beyond yourself and raising money for charities looks like...even on days we call birthday.

As parts of the world may create a narrative, I and we stand here as your brother, sister, auntie, uncle, father, mother, cousin, distant friend, stranger & human to protect your legacy. Let it be known...Let it be known the amount of hardship your two angels had to carry...Two shining lesbians and 6 superhero children rocking the world to a new wave of life. Rocking the festivals like no other family has. Like Amma, giving thousands of hugs today. Like MLK, looking after your people of all races. Like Gandhi in your activism. Like Mother Teresa in your caring for everybody.

We know the circle will only grow from here sweet Harts. We know that like the Rising Sisters sing, we Widen the circle. We know like medicine sings, we believe in the good things coming. We know like Trevor sings we stand with Haleakala like a mountain. We feel your pain and understand the world may be a frustrating place...but we shine our candle through that darkness. Providing light on the horizon above. To know the shadow, is to know the spark that lives inside.

So from to the North, East, South, West, above, below and to the center of our Hart...We honor you. We know you're here in spirit...

& we love you

With grace and gratitude

your one of many guardians

Everyone knows this festival world exists if you live on the West Coast

R266, I think that sentence is a double negative, so she’s refusing to be negative about gays raising families.

Agree, R277.

She is a cluesless straight who is pretending to be pro-gay but her statement is loudly anti-gay as she brings it up. The only article where it has been brought up.

No one gay would do that.

The liberals condone the homophobic and sexist transing of kids, too. They are pro-child abuse.

What was the endgame? A house of teens, now they are saying, the youngest, 12, was really 15, what were they supposed to do for jobs? Did they get any education? Date? Have friends? Cutting them off from the world except for family works for very small kids but what were they supposed to do with adulthood looming?

Oh, and she uses the word "queer" too because she thinks that is hip but she is using a homophobic slur. More stupidity/homophobia.

I agree that transing of minor is abuse and notice that Jeramiah is dressed in skirts a few times, Jenn would not want to leave that box unchecked.

If you think others have not brought up that the problem was gay parents, you are simply wrong and have missed a lot of the social media and comments around this case.

R281, what are your feelings toward Jenn & Sarah Hart?

Comments is one thing. She wrote an article, R282. One where she was talking about how thoughtful she was.

I don't know them, R283.

Surely you have thoughts? Opinions?

Scammers of a feather, exploit black kids for attention together. What, his music and family $ do not support him? I hear taking in abused black kids from TX pays ok... He has a Patreon and promotes juice cleanses too.

Max Ribner is with Kristina Pescatore. March 26 at 1:34pm · C H E E R S...

To a fresh week everybody. Empowering the community to join me for a week cleanse starting today. Taking the time to look at all of our attachments & additions including things like sugars, caffeine, fast foods, smoking or drinking...and then putting good action in improvement will in turn benefit us all in the long run. All the info and details are located here: www.Patreon.com/MaxRibner.

Give thanks

Max

The card at R223 interesting. Among many others, no doubt, we have....

The cop in the viral picture

The guy who had been through the foster system and recognized that Devonte needed help

The black family who offered to serve as healthy black role models and get their kids together with the Harts

Ken E. Nwadike, the Free Hugs movement guy

All of whom tried to contact Devonte and were rebuffed. Meanwhile Jen has Devonte sending with pictures and phone numbers to Xavier Rudd. The difference? Xavier Rudd lives in Australia and doesn't tour in the US that often; there's no chance of him texting and saying, "hey, I'm going to be in town this weekend...."

I'm wondering how many of the people pushing the "perfect family" fantasy ever saw them away from a crowd. I'm guessing not a single one was ever invited to their house and their only interaction was ooh'ing and ahh'ing at the Jen and Her Magical Negro Show at festivals while muttering to each other about what a saint Jen is to be raising the lessers on her own while distant Sarah contributes nothing. Apart from those public meetings, I suspect their sole contact was consuming Jen's carefully constructed social media life, designed to reaffirm her sainthood.

freeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaks! I hope someone makes a juicy documentary or movie out of this freak show but it's going to be such grisly watch. I hope all their freaky communities are exposed for how fucking narcissistic and strange they are.

Some of them plan to make a documentary glorifying it, lol. Big audience for that!

Wonder how much of a search is occurring in WA state. Any locals?

Wonder if any cadaver dogs visited those raised garden beds?

I had really hoped that they might be alive still.

Re Rudd, curious how Jenn was going to an adult show and wanted to use the card to get close and fangirl. Wonder who was with the kids then?

Does anyone else think the cop hugging Devonte is kinda cute??? I’d bang him.

Xavier Rudd is pretty hot.

I wonder if the kids knew the lyrics to title song from THE ARISTOCATS. God, I love that picture. Its fun.

How soon will we see the Dateline or 48 Hours special?

@r294 I can hardly wait.

the raised garden bed theory that the missing kids are buried in them is dumb as hell. i'm sure the police have already checked

I believe there was a quote saying there was only a warrant for a search within the house. Anyone local who could weigh in?

.....

Why is Nahko going so hard for them? It seems like it would be a turn-off to a percentage of his audience unless he's sure that they are [italic]all[/italic] of the festival ilk.

He seems a bit sketchy himself. When his name first came up in this story I watched a couple of his videos and there were comments on one stating that he was using [whatever the Native term in the song was] in a way that showed he had no understanding of the meaning or of what he was actually saying. He was using it in the way that only white hippies trying to appear spiritual would.

Then there's his backstory.... grandparents fighting oil companies and turning up murdered, 12-year-old prostitutes being sold to violent alcoholics, etc. I guess it's easy to be interesting when adoption records are sealed and the birth mother is also in public eye, on the speaking circuit as an intersectional feminist with a harrowing history and a tale of salvation by the spirits of "The Ancestors."

Raccoons would be digging up the reeking garden beds by now. Neither one of them looked capable of digging a deep grave.

Probably, R300. Wonder if they are out in the woods somewhere?

The child who wanted to go to Seattle and who was said to jump out of a second floor window, wonder what the connection is there? The kids were all from TX. It was sad and strange that she ran into the house of strangers to hide at 1:30 am, but also that Jenn & Sarah immediately knew she was gone and that the whole family went looking for her in the middle of the night. Strange hours when at least Sarah had a typical schedule. Jumping out of a second floor window seems kinda desperate. Not sure I want to know what went on in that home.

R298 thanks for posting that interest information from an academic with real research. Except at the end when the researcher goes off the research to opine that there is frequently "no monster" in these family annihilators, rather parent who abuse because they were abused as children. Well, whatever. In my opinion what these 2 parents made those kids endure for years is monstrous.

So Jennifer was the abuser? She was the one who drove them.off tbe cliff. I guess Sarah was a victim as well?

Sometimes both parents are abusive. Sarah had spoken to someone at a festival about having a hard time coping with the kids behaviors. The fact that she got the ed degree but never taught at all makes me wonder.

I think Sarah left Jenn, maybe more than once. She lived out of state for most of a year, not even returning for kid bday parties. When Jenn wrote the FB screed she talked of rebuilding trust over and over.

The kids spoke of both of them being abusive or both of them starving them. I think that there can be a temptation to make one adult helpless or a victim but Sarah was the one with a work history and an ability to get along with others in work situations. It is not clear how well Jenn functioned outside of festivals and social media.

The woman on Twitter who worked with them spoke of both of them being critical and unkind to their first foster daughter and it making her feel uncomfortable. Sarah did not stop things there, they went on to adopt 6 kids with sn all very close in age. Of course that gave them the highest income stream possible, too...

The idea of taking in 6 sn kids is much better than the reality. I think Sarah preferred being away all the time for work and left Jenn to all of it, and ignored Jenn losing her shit and taking it out on the kids. It was much easier to avoid the toxicity and live the happy family life on social media. Sarah was fine with the hassle of packing up and moving to another state for work but not with the hassle of making sure those kids had their school and daily life in order.

You are all over interpreting the nuance of their monstrosity. A parent doesn't distract themselves sufficiently at work to enter into a delusion that both parents are NOT FEEDING THEIR CHILDREN AND SENDING THEM TO SCHOOL SO THEY CAN GROW UP AND BE INDEPENDENT HEALTHY HUMANS. Not lifestyle accessories for the creation of fake identities.

Sierra may have arrived #RIP

RIP.

i'm so glad one of them was found, hopefully the other two will surface soon. this is so sad.

I thought this post from FB was interesting and kind of gave some background on the scene they moved in. Splitting it up in 2 parts due to length.

Part I From FB: So I was part of the West Coast festival scene for the decade I lived in NorCal. I ended up fading out cuz the scene is racist, painfully white, and full of hypocritical cultural appropriators. It was bad for me and the handful of POC to be in that community. I did volunteer gigs and sometimes workshops at these events becuz they are expensive to attend.

I do not think Nahko is Native American at all, and even if he were, he has no connection to the Apache heritage he claims to have. Being Indigenous is so much more than one ancestor you have no connection to. But his entire image is built on being a Native dude who wants to sing Kumbaya with white hippies. He never asks these people to examine their privilege; it's all love and light and giving people a pass for *saying* all the right things. He rubber-stamps cultural appropriation, esp by calling his fanatic base a tribe. I know of one Native person out of all the folks across the US and Canada in my network who likes him, and that says something when a musician who capitalizes on his specious claim to an Indigenous identity doesn't have much of a base with us.

Here's the thing with the WC festival scene: they believe they are so much more evolved than people in the "default world". Yet their events and community is rife with abusers, rapists, thieves, and charlatans. I've been doing antiracism/cultural appropriation education in that subculture since 2006. I've seen them issue death threats to Indigenous people. I've seen them defend known predators. A couple years ago there was a huge scandal cuz women were using the festival scene to recruit vulnerable people into pyramid schemes where you had to buy in for $5k with the promise of getting $20k back -- once you lured in 2 other women into the racket. I saw women exposed in this scandal threaten to make people lose custody of their children. This is how low people in this scene will stoop to exploit others and get away with it. Pyramid schemes are illegal in many states, and these women were preying on folks, under the guise of joining a "supportive sisterhood". One of my former close friends tried to recruit me. Apparently she thought my friendship was not as important as her recouping her $5k investment.

From FB Part 2: I used to work a monthly event for a rich musician named Jah Levi, who lived in George Lucas's old spread in Fairfax, CA. These people would steal from each other, sexually assault each other, you name it. Fantuzzi used to perform there; i mention him cuz I saw someone post him further up this thread. When I worked at Burning Man doing crisis intervention, the number of rapes, thefts, and physical abuse between people was off the hook. This community is no more enlightened than any other sector of society. They follow charismatic people blindly and think they are so spiritually superior and have no work to do on themselves. So none of Nahko's or their collective behavior surprises me, because if they admit they are wrong about the Harts and missed all the red flags, it means their entire subculture is build on lies. The scene is built on groupthink and moral superiority, when in reality they are some of the most pretentious and ethically challenged people I've encountered.

Last May, I attended a bear dance with a friend who is also a Native activist like myself. Nahko came up in our conversation, cuz we know so many white people in the scene who worship him. Something about this dude doesn't sit right with us, and i can't name it, but my intuition about these things has yet to be wrong. I had the same feeling about Michael Franti, who is also revered by people in the scene, and it turns out the dude is a notorious horndog who borders on predatory. Same with the yoga "guru" Rodney Yee, and neither of those men had agreements with their partners to be in open relationships. But the scene doesnt care about what people do, as long a they maintain a pretty facade and SAY all the right things.

I feel like sometime in the future, I am going to find out something nasty about Nahko, and whether it has to do with this family, i dont know. But he doesn't seem as devastated by all the evidence that these women abused and killed their kids as he is concerned about the love and light charade being maintained, one that he worked hard to construct.

Or it could be tiny Hannah. Wow, I was so hoping that they had gotten away somehow. RIP munchkins.

I'm never going to Esalen again. #tribeBS

Yeah, Nacho or whatever his name is is typical of the "indigenous" poseurs who think that being an aboriginal American endows him with superpowers and a link to being "at one" with the universe. Fuck you, Nacho—AND your screwball disciples. Some of us are on to your chicanery.

Nahko Bear’s deadname is Joel Parayno.

Why does it not surprise me that he’s got Paris Jackson twirling in one of his videos.

Also, nahko means bear, so it’s sort of like he’s calling himself “shrimp scampi.”

An anagram of Nahko Bear is Aha Broken.

I prefer Nacho Bear.

Narco Bear

Damn you gays for making me laugh when the thought of that little girl washing up made me teary!

Is that his name for real?

What is the carrying around a teddy bear thing about?

He tweets Paris Jackson, too. Eh, charlatan for sure but still kinda hot. Max is a bit, too.

The screed at R275 is vomit-inducing, is that from Ribner?

I never knew about these festival types but I hate them already. What a bunch of air-headed, self-important assholes.

[quote]Eh, charlatan for sure but still kinda hot.

Being hot pretty much absolves one of everything else bad about them, doesn't it? Not judging you, r319, just making a comment.

Yes, R320.

Joel reallis quite full of himself. The story of his mom is tragic. These broken people create these empty facades then defend them to the death. He and Jenn were quite simpatico. Jenn seems obsessed with Nahko in particular, are we sure she was really a dyke?

Ribner is from CT and comes from family $, went to elite schools.

Not in real life, R321.

Jenn wasnt hot and look how hard they are going for her.

Per the link at r322:

Adoptee details — Race: Asian

Birth-mother details — Race: Hispanic, Asian

let's face cps dumped these poor children with these 2 psychos, then paid the psychos and not the kids money. The CPS workers got paid too.

I want this program shut down and a new program that focuses on children development and health/well being of the children to be implemented. Adopted and fostered kids will get the benefits for their entire lives. Who is on board with this change?

R326, come back to the real world. They do not give money to kids. They give them to their guardians/parents who in turn are to use the money in supoort fo the child.

The money mentioned upthread does not seem like all that much over a decade and for 6 kids. Quite frankly with that Texas subsidy ($1900 monthly), SSDI, one full time salary and other possible assistance (medicaid, food programs) it seems to be they'd be fine financially. The mortgage on that house wouldn't be unmanageable.

there have been problems with this system for decades

Adopted and fostered children should get benefits for life, including comprehensive medical, education, social security, housing vouchers and food.

Haven't they suffered enough?

I can’t handle Nakho Bear’s music. No wonder Shailene Woodley left him for a rugby player..

Knew Shailene was a hippy. But did not know she was dating that Nakho Bear weirdo .

My family lived in Woodland, Washington for about ten years. It is absolutely correct that there is an entire network of these weirdos up in north Clark County. "North County" is full of fringe, separatist types with more land than sense. Lots of Little House on the Prairie delusion.

Also, my brother ran with the hippy-dippy crowd up there (I live in Portland) and those people, the few I had the misfortune to encounter, were the skeeviest trash on record. There is a definite cult-ish "spiritualism" among them, a tendency to manipulative charisma, not to mention criminal records. Anyone with adult intelligence can see through the facade immediately, but it works on damaged fringe types. Everyone else just assumes he or she is watching lackluster dinner theater old-time religion.

In one of the photos posted, Jenn's wearing tinted sunglasses and it made me think of Jim Jones. There was some malignancy in her that made this inevitable. They were always headed for that cliff, from the moment Jenn and Sarah met.

[quote]At [R265]: "The notion that queer folks should not adopt is one I am not willing to indulge."

Erm, that’s not homophobic. She supports gay adoption.

She actually brought up the topic to do virtue-signalling about herself. It does not help the cause of gay rights to have it brought up as a topic in an article about this story.

The "queer" crap is homophobic, too.

CNN reporting body found new crash site.

Could be Del Monte hugging the shore.

R311

[quote] When I worked at Burning Man doing crisis intervention…

Holy shit!

Well, it makes sense that sex is used as currency in a barter society.

[quote]Eh, charlatan for sure but still kinda hot. Max is a bit, too.

Way to sound like one of those morons making excuses for Sarah Palin in 2008. At least she gives me spank bank material.

R332, on the flip side I have read that there are outposts of white pride survivalists in the PNW, aren’t there? Very strange.

Wow. Just caught up on this thread. I'm taking this personally. USA keeps sinking lower.

I'm getting Jenn murder-suicide from all of this. I don't think Sarah had a say here in the crash.

[R332] I was thinking that too, when reading this thread. They would have joined the jim jones cult. They were probably searching for something like that.

Why wouldn't cps let these children live with people who did not have good relationships with extending family members?

This is such a bleak story ever way you look at it.

Hello Frauen!

Yes, the NW is infested with White Supremacists and militias. Oregon was founded in White Supremacy.

R342, zip it. Try Hello Fellow Human

Crazy sad story. Just full of disaster and enabling by total indulged wankers. I pity the children. Also, Nachos Bear is a total drongo

The PNW is full of them, r339. There’s been decades-long push to get white supremacist to move there with the end goal of a seceding and creating an Aryan country.

Google “Northwest Imperative.”

^^^Mass of typos. Mea culpa.

That Nacho cunt tweets like a lobotomy patient. “This fam was FAM, fam!” He’s trying way too hard.

I don't usually block, but begone CPS troll. This thread loads SO slowly, is this because the nutter butter posted 85 times?

I visited a friend who had moved to rural Oregon years ago (we're from Northern CA) and he commented on the large number of fundamental Christians living in the woods. I just recently visited Portland and was struck by the plethora of man buns and mystical crystal shops. We passed a place that advertised as a place for fathers to hang with their toddlers and we joked it should be called the Man Bun Cave. Otherwise, I love Oregon, especially the coast. Portland is nice, so many vintage neighborhoods and really great food. We have those mystical types in No Cal too but not to the extent found in Oregon.

Why cannot people ask questions about CPS? Or suggestions ways to reform the CPS program?

R350, that would be SeaHorses. It is indeed a man bun paradise.

It is indeed homophobic to bring up, out of the blue without further comment or context, “that queer folks should not be parents is a notion I will not indulge”. Imagine replacing it with an ethnic or religious minority that you yourself belong to, and you will understand how deeply biased that statement is. Anyone arguing otherwise is arguing from the (non-gay, as is the linguistic framing) perspective of the tacitly judging author. Why the fuck would you mention this so cavalierly? If you’re going to mention it at all, you better damn well be addressing it. It’s a fucked up statement full of dogwhistle nuance.

R344, Bitch, Please. This thread is histrionic fan fiction in between the CPS trolls bizarre monologues and shit like:

[quote]hugging nourishing and validating

no gay man typed that.

Yes, we know, dear.

R352 Yes! That was it! We theorized the man bun dads would be smoking pot and playing music while their spawn ran wild.

We also met a clerk with a man bun in a crystal shop.

These buns be for you

I met a bunch of PDX folks at a festival in Australia. Really ordinary nice liberal whitebros with postgrad degrees. Very friendly, generous, good company for a few days. Then one recommended Atlas Shrugged all weekend, another was an chartered accountant saving up to go to yoga teacher school in Nepal, another’s girlfriend was his Asian ex-student and the last hated Barack Hussein Obama and was a Bernie supporter. (All voted Hillary.)

R356, I live a few blocks from Seahorses. It's one of a kind.

*to above: your observation would be absolutely correct.

[quote]Adopted and fostered children should get benefits for life, including comprehensive medical, education, social security, housing vouchers and food.

For life? Uh, no.

R361, right? If that were the case, I’d give up my own children for adoption so they could have this things.

^^ those things.

Jeez. That sounded positively Vladimir.

R332, I keep being struck by the fact that a house of half a dozen teens seemed to be receiving NO preparation for supporting themselves, having a social network, etc, as adults, and it was not far off. The kind of parenting they CLAIMED to do, is really more appropriate for TODDLERS. The Sheriff has spoken of multiple phones, maybe just the women but maybe the no electronics was BS too.

The dark sides of the internet have hit kids had - trafficking in images and selling family dysfunction as a glossy brand. They came close to having a Terpin ending but Jenn would not tolerate exposure.

People who have abuse backgrounds are often controlling, care intensely about appearances, have unresolved anger. Therapy, a good support system, one or 2 kids and all can be well. Nahko and his denial are concerning.

What do you guys think they mean by #protect the community?

Just tragic

Another post from FB, split into parts or length: Part 1 Nicholas E. Walker is with Leslie Noel Montgomery and 26 others. March 30 at 8:31am · I am feeling deeply disturbed by forces of racism and denial at play in my extended Portland community. As evidence has been coming out around long term abuse of six adopted black children by the Hart family, there is an outrageous force of denial and whitewashing arising from a subset of the transformative festival community.

When I speak of child abuse I refer to a long term process of physical/social isolation, complete dependency, physical violence, and implied threat. There are a number of charismatic and popular voices in the Pacific Northwest festival community who are on a campaign of denial and whitewashing.

Sarah Hart pled guilty under oauth to striking her adopted daughter with a closed fist, submerging her head under cold water, and withholding meals as a form of control.

Jennifer Hart drove Sarah and at least 3 of the children off a cliff. From a complete stop. The children were not wearing seatbelts.

The spin control in the television appearances by Max Ribner, Kristina Pescatore, and Zipporah Lomax is sick: e.g. the children were not kept isolated, they were "travelers" and were being "saved from their trauma" by being homeschooled and kept indoors. I call Max and Kristina and Zipporah out by name specifically because they organized a campaign to get on television to paint a puritanical image of the Hart women.

The families moved from state to state following reports of child abuse in each state. They began unregistered homeschooling of the children after the first documented case of child abuse.

No quantity of "free hugs" makes up for a beaten child. The fact that they specifically adopted children of color (two sets of three blood siblings) and presented a front of perfect "white savior" makes it all the more disturbing. They were receiving government subsidies to raise these children.

The women were using the children as slaves to their own image. There was oppression involved in the creation of the photographs we keep seeing posted by the "friends" who lived nowhere near these women. Continuing efforts to maintain that image are a perpetuation of the same image slavery based on the notion of a white right to maintaining a puritanical image. The oppressors might want to call it "love" or "light" but what they are embodying is the belief that white people have a special right to keep shame private at the cost of human life.

I am calling on my friends to hold the transformative festival community accountable to facing their shame, shadow, and grandiosity. Start to talk about rape and oppressive behavior openly. Acknowledge the modern day slavery present in the acts of the Hart women.

We have a miniature Holocaust denial on our hands. These folks don't want to have their image taken away. This is not the first time in history we have seen a collective shadow rear its head with mythological force. Jung predicted the Holocaust before it happened by seeing the rise of Odin in the depressed remains of the old Holy Roman Empire. Our American Empire is failing now and more than one shadow is emerging.

At the heart of these denials is a commune in southwest Portland idolizing "Binah Zing", the original owner of a property now owned by her widower, Elijah Parker. Binah's death is shrouded in mystery, but what is known is that she drowned in a hot tub after consuming 5-MeO-DMT while staying at her parents' house on Orcas Island with her husband. Friends report she had well-known long-term suicidal ideations including dreams of drowning in the ocean. Why these same people are so fervently engaged in the coverup of the Hart murders remains to be seen.

Meanwhile, three children are missing.

#BlackLivesMatter

Nacho has another song about drowning in the rising tide, My Name is Bear. Which, if any survived the impact, they did.

Jenn becoming an annihilator was due to other things but was how/where she did it influenced by their dippy God type figure, Nacho? What about Binah and the drowning imagery (and reality, for her too)? WHY are they going so hard? Why not just say, we are tremendously sad to learn these things about our acquaintances and leave it at that?

Any PDX folks, what is up with this Zippy person? Max calling the neighbors in WA to denounce them as bigots seems pretty extreme. I thought he was 18 or something but he is over 30.

Wonder how the Harts afforded the fees of Zippy or if she waived them? The snap of her in a string bikini top shooting on her stomach on a boardwalk captures the duality of all this - the fake better than you, coupled with sexuality and manipulation on a really crass level. It is rare to find a shot of Nacho or Max wearing a shirt.

R368 Zippy's macro shots of water drops, snails and flower are gorgeous. I hope she comes to her senses about the Hart family.

According to Zippy and Max, anyone who speaks or thinks ill of Jenn and Sarah Hart is a racist and a homophobe! Of course, those labels were part of the shield the abusers hid behind, the fake KKK incident, reason neighbors called CPS was that they were lesbians, etc. All to deflect from bruises up and down the front and back of a first grader, etc. Having a penny in your pocket was a pretext for a vicious beat down in their home, how groovy, man!

If you click on "littles" in the portfolio, you will see two Hart kids, but also you will see a lot of skinny children in cool clothes, so the look was not so different from the other kids. It isn't a Disneyland crowd.

Unless those were Hannah's baby teeth that were knocked out and the adult ones grew in, the authorities would know immediately that wasn't Hannah who washed up. Bless that brave person who fished her out of the ocean. I'm sure it was a pretty gruesome sight.

Sara could have been taking the pictures in that MN gallery and it's why she isn't seen. She could have been working.

Rather than thinking Jenn's FB post about "rebuilding trust" was concerning whether Sara had cheated on Jenn or Jenn cheated on her, I believe it was Jenn promising not to hit one of their kids again.

The 3 incidents of abuse in 3 states were directed against the girls not boys. Why was that? Could the choreographed hugs have been the result of Jenn feeling guilty that they didn't have a man in their lives?

Not that it matters now, but the family probably got most of their protein from eggs from their chickens and that's why protein wasn't on the grocery list. They could have had big bags of beans that they stored.

I don't understand why bloodhounds weren't brought in immediately after the discovery of the crash and the realization that 3 of the kids were missing. They would have been useful at the house and at the coast.

But after all the time went by and the storm and rains, they blew the window of opportunity.

They did use dogs at the crash site. The belief of the authorities that all were in the suv was correct. The storm brought one body back, RIP Sierra. One child was found submerged in water with clothing caught on a rock. That is why they thought the others may have been washed out. The other 2 originally found were on the rocks.

I wonder what was going on when Jenn increased the isolation from the festival crowd in the last year or 2. She was still plugged in with the gamers, who all though she was a great mom from the photos, too.

They would have lost the kids at this point and what besides Star Wars would Jenn have left? She would not let that happen.

Many online want to make Sarah a loving, fun mom who truly wanted the kids. Both seemed overwhelmed, Sarah spoke about it. In the snaps with the kids that show affection, the kids are showing it to HER. Her swanning about in the bday video made me think she was as much of a narcissist. I cannot dismiss the possibility that Sarah agreed to ending it all, with Jenn. Making it look like an accident, so their image would continue. The kids were not being set up for adult life, it is hard to see what other end game there was.

"It takes two to tango" as the old cliché goes. Sara was an enabler. Sometimes people choose their secret selves as their partner. You could be right. Sara could have been a narcissist too.

I really hope that this wasn't a case of mass murder/suicide because Jenn stopped taking bi-polar meds due to lack of money. Has there been any report that she actually was diagnosed bi-polar?

I think the dogs at the crash site were search & rescue German shepherds not bloodhounds that have the ability to smell a peron's scent for miles. They can tell whether someone has left in a car, etc.

R371, none of the kids in her portfolio are emaciated, as the Hart kids appear in some photos. The boy playing the guitar upthread is shocking. Of course the guitar is signed by Tubby, Max and Nacho which is all that matters, eh?The kids on the website are not fat, but they have the rounded limbs that healthy kids have.

How many nose rings and white people wearing locks can a person take seeing at those festivals?

If the kids were washed out to sea, as tragically seems to be the case, not sure what bloodhounds could do. They were all dead sometime that Sunday night or early Monday.

Sarah never looks genuinely delighted by the kids or to show spontaneous joy with them, she always seems aware of the camera. She had the job and left the family for months, not even coming back for Devontes birthday. I cannot see her as helpless or controlled by her devotion to the kids, factors for some enablers. The facts just do not seem to support that re Sarah. Her smile does not reach her eyes. There was a reason that she NEVER taught. She openly spoke about being overwhelmed by the behaviors of the kids, yet acquired more. The glammed up mugshot was striking.

Jenn was a family annihilator triggered by the imminent loss of the kids and exposure as a monster when her image of a white savior was her reason for living. Nothing to do with medication and no evidence thus far she was on any or that she had stopped it.

R376. there are skinny kids, including ones with ribs showing

Good points re: poor Markis, often banished from the Hart Tribe marketing images as he aged:

Nadine Wu What special needs did he have? Is there credible evidence that he had major special needs? If he had special needs though, his "parents" should've enrolled him for a sheltered employment program or some kind of vocational training program for adults with disabilities. There are also programs that work with disabled adults to develop independent living skills.

Actually, children in special education can attend school for free up to age 21. The school could've worked on a lot of life skills with him as part of his IEP.

The way people are just making stuff up is creepy. We do not know very much about these people.

Skinny kids are one thing, sometimes their ribs show. The kid playing the guitar upthread was emaciated. Multiple kids had reported over years that the women had withheld food as a punishment. Twice, adults reported the same to authorities, one a festival friend that they visited and the neighbors. Not sure what those facts have to do with Zippys photos. To show that she had no way to know? Fair enough, but when the child abuse guilty plea become public knowledge, why double down on defending and idolizing them in the media, pretty aggressively?

they look pretty normal and happy in these photos and not isolated

There was a question whether the 3 missing kids had been in the SUV or not. A bloodhound could have picked up a scent that they had run off, etc. The bloodhound could have been taken to the Ft Bragg shop to see if the scents took off in a different direction like the kids had escaped.

The skinny legs and arms are something I see in my rich area. But what about the distended stomach on the boy w/ glasses and the girl's collarbone sticking out? That's not normal.

The worst thing of course is going off a cliff and killing everyone. We don't really know too much before that point. People are just repeating the Turpin story here but it does not seem to be the same scenario and there is less info and sadly we do not have the kids around

Remember the days of adopted kids made others feel envy because they were really wanted? Was that just a facade? I'm not talking about kids in foster care. Those infants people spent an arm and leg to get? Traveling great distances for? Couples were screened from now until Tuesday. Applying for visas. This isn't one of those cases. What the hell happened?!

Jenn herself posted on FB that they were isolating, their friends did not even have current cell numbers and they were estranged from family. The kids were pulled from school, permanently, the day after Sarah finalized her criminal plea for child abuse, so, isolated. Neighbors in multiple states reported the kids rarely left the house even in nice weather and did not really interact if spoken to. In WA, neighbors who shared a driveway said they had a visitor twice in 8 months. Photo ops are not reality. Abusers create an image that deflects and that people cling on to as a reason not to believe kids. That is the danger. The Terpins had all kinds of images too. Manipulators also manipulate perception to their own benefit.

Yikes, R387, I know of an adopted kid who taunted siblings by saying they were PICKED and the parents were stuck with the bio kids, thought it was just him but maybe it was an approach.

Jolie had a somewhat similar approach, adopting a large number of kids, acting as though the family was a tribe, moving around, social isolation, etc. Those kids supposedly have tutors and have attended school here and there. Social connections can be a pressure release valve for parents and help us all norm our behavior in healthy ways. They give kids a diversity of role model or adults to intervene. Avoiding those things is a red flag, as it was here.

The are in more varied activities than the Turpins. We don't know.

A lot of foster kids, and homeschooled kids, and just regular kids of neurotic or somewhat neglectful parents are isolated, controlled or not getting enough food.

R375, R384–. German Shepherds are the go to search and rescue dogs. Hounds are better following a trail, than searching a site with inert victims.

I grew up off and on and then entirely on in foster care. I will just say if you isolate and look at separately the top and bottom halves of the children's 'smiling' faces you get 2 completely different stories. Those are not happy kids.

Yes, Jolie’s parenting seems similar to the Hart’s and Terpins. Would love to know what is going on with her kids....

I wonder if more info will come out on the homeschooling - if there was any.

I have known people who homeschool and who register - the district can be a source of curriculum and enriching opportunities. Jenn and Sarah, a teacher, just wanted those kids off the radar.

No, R382, you are right. They were kids trained to perform and to sell the Hart Tribe brand. What strikes me is that they had not given up on escape/help.

Leaving an abuser, as an adult or as a child is the MOST dangerous time. Abuse is about control and killing is the ultimate power move. People should be aware and try to learn signs to look for from these stories, but good intentions do not guarantee a good outcome. The DeKalb woman will likely never recover. She wanted to call CPS some time ago, after the middle of the night visit from the girl, but was discouraged by her daughter, a SN teacher and the husband, who cared enough to go over and check on the kids. I know that CPS records do not cross states but would they have access to Sarah Hart pleading guilty to child abuse in the criminal system. Anyone know?

To me, the kids seemed like props for Jenn and a source of income while she gamed. Starvation kept them small and young looking for longer but there are few end games given the isolation and lack of education. Even the festival folks had not seen them in years and had no cell numbers for them.

Jolie didn't adopt our American kids. Like Madonna with a history of instability, they couldn't pass muster in the States.

That's why I'm so let down by our system. How did these women get these kids? How in the hell? Who signed off on them overloaded with six children and getting cash after adoptions finalized? Would they be able to pull this off in Connecticut? Vermont? Or just a shitty state like Texas? Is it because the kids are POC?

I've always thought Americans would federally have every one of our children's backs. Under the impression as a potential parent you went under a microscope and scrutinizing procedure to get a child. Please let this be a state and local screw up and not a reflection of the USA. Please!

Few people want older kids of color with issues and there were 2 big (3) groups of sibs. They were likely impressed by Sarah having an ed degree. Jenn is a master manipulator. The report of the bruised arm and belting were, I think, during the evaluation period for the second adoption, however they may have gotten their clear paperwork beforehand. Moving so often, isolation and use of social media to manipulate images kept any jurisdiction from following up. In OR, they said the kids had clearly been coached, but without physical evidence or statements there was nothing they could do. People with convictions for child abuse should lose the ability to homeschool. It should be required not just recommended that homeschoolers register with their local districts and the progress of the kids be monitored.

Jenn did not fool everyone, the friends and family tried to intervene after the criminal conviction for abuse, they cut them off, pulled the kids from school and moved.

The way that these people use language and denial is creepy AF. I hope that they do make their deifying movie and I hope it costs Max and Nacho their careers.

---------------------------- Matthew Mathis Nicholas E. Walker -- you have no shame. I have truth and reality on my side, as well as respect for the dead and fighting for justice. You are self-righteously making false claims out of some twisted sense that you know something that you actually don't.

Yes, leave this up until your develop a sense of the shame and evil mindfuckery you possess and are attempting to spread. Leave this up as a testimony to your willing refusal to honor good and loving people. Leave this up as a way for you to deny other people their rightful grief. Leave this up so that you can crow on and on about someone's perceived crimes that are likely resonant to something in yourself that you can't bear to deal with. Leave this up as a way to try and shame me when all you are really doing is making your own karma into shit.

And then, when you finally grow enough to realize how mean and vile you are being, repent and atone for your sickening attempts to desecrate both the dead and the living.

Yes, it is a language of its own like the language of extreme politics. It is devoid of individuality and meaning. Whenever we read words from Jenn there is nothing real there; it is just this hippie-progressive bullshit. They all talk like that. So who knows - there is no info.

[quote]How did these women get these kids? How in the hell? Who signed off on them overloaded with six children and getting cash after adoptions finalized? Would they be able to pull this off in Connecticut? Vermont? Or just a shitty state like Texas? Is it because the kids are POC?

I think it was a perfect storm of things:

1. People in the system wanting to be liberal minded and PC ---not going on record to oppose a gay adoption.

2. Yes, POC, especially older kids are virtually un-adoptable. No one wants to take them on. There was probably a certain amount of willful ignorance at play concerning the fitness of the women to parent so many troubled kids. Turn a blind eye and cross your fingers to get six kids out of foster care and into what you 'hope' is s loving home.

3. Sarah's educational background and Jen's psychopathic ability to lie and manipulate.

4. There are no men in this equation. Statistically, most of the abuse foster children suffer is at the hands of men. Two female parents probably felt like a good gamble.

Today I'm really annoyed with the people that are defending the Harts so voraciously. These kids were surrounded by people at these festivals but there wasn't one person they could tell. They clearly would not have been believed. Or maybe they did tell and weren't believed.

More of the magic negro and water imagery.

No way do I think that those kids moved about freely. She created such a divergent narrative and was GOOD at it.

They cop to bad days, bad weeks but the thought of reality being exposed sends them over the cliff.

Think you nailed it R400. And the belting incident likely was not known about while the second adoption was pending. To me, that says a lot, that they could not or would not control themselves even during a time of heightened scrutiny.

R401, they had not even been at the festivals in a few years. The report in OR may have made that seem risky.

The facebook post re Devonte makes it seem like it was his job to manage the moods of Jenn. Any kid of a narcissist will recognize that dynamic. She terms it 14 going on 70 but there was nothing 14 year old about his life whatsoever. Kid had so much pressure on him and did his best to survive. I think the 6 packs of tortillas and the 6 jars of peanut butter were for the other kids. Such a fucking shame.

There are a lot of huge families profiled in gay parenting books that I have seen or that I have read about in the media. I hope the majority are healthy homes. Do not fall for the white savior, love will fix everything bs. If you are well adjusted and have good social support, 1 high needs kid is still a lot to take on. Large families are tough without adding in SN kids, whose needs are life long. Do not fall for the need to be better than everyone in image and volume b/c I am gay strain of parenting. Yet, even with only one young girl they were so critical and her reaction was so sad that it made a bystander uncomfortable and remember it over a decade later. A new generation is not here to fix your damage or inflate your ego - wish all parents understood that. Intentions do NOT equal execution. They went to such a dark place and kept doubling down at junctures that could have gone differently. What if they had reacted to the criminal conviction and the concern of family and friends in MN by getting help, parenting classes, respite care? What if the kids had stayed in school and received services and interventions? What if they stayed in one community and had people that they were accountable to? The need for control is so common with people from abusive backgrounds but the exploitation of power over the vulnerable, that was on both of them. The Clinique counter poster did not say Sarah objected to Jenn being critical, they BOTH made her uncomfortable. Poor kid had to literally be made over in appearance to be in their lives.

The friends, despite the word salad of racial justice, homophobia, love and light, do not seem to define the 6 murdered kids as part of humanity. It is quite disturbing.

The festival crowd sure seems dark and damaged. This was a comment on the picture of Devonte standing in the rain playing magical Negro/Yoda and managing Jenns moods and behavior. These people literally invert reality in their attempts to glorify the Hart women. However, those kids kept trying to get help, THEY knew, as human beings, that they deserved it. So many around them just saw them as pets or feel good props. WHY are they going so hard for MURDERERS and BATTERERS?

--------------------------------------

Matthew Mathis Melissa Saunders -- what sort of hate for love and life did your parents instill in you? Did they hit you in the head so much that you have brain damage? Did they rape and traumatize you so that you've become numb to humanity? Are you on drugs?

Yeah, alright, okay; you are too cool for compassion and beauty. I get it. Fuck you and your stupid problems, and when you start suffering so loud you can't deny it any more, remember:

KARMA.

You'll have earned it.

(CNN) Authorities recovered a body near the Northern California site where an SUV plunged off a cliff last month, killing at least five members of a family and leaving three siblings missing.

Vacationers saw a body floating in the Pacific Ocean surf Saturday, days after the search for the missing Hart children was suspended due to expected heavy rain.

In a statement, the Mendocino County Sheriff's office said the body appears to be that of an African-American female.

What haunts me is how many other "families" like this are out there as we type. I mentioned having connections to Woodland, and there's a reason this case is really bothering me.

At 30, my brother became disabled from a traumatic brain injury and fell in love with a "savior" who found him at the side of the road after he was hit by a car. After one date, she asked him to move in. The house was full of Buddha imagery and "healthy" crap but it was also cramped, cluttered, and filthy. She spent most of her time feuding online about her anti-vaxx, anti-science conspiracy theory. I'm a teacher and, as a high school dropout herself, she never shut up about how foolish education is. I was also the only person in the family who could stare her down. She only picked on easy victims and the few times we locked eyes, I let her know I was perfectly healthy, knew what she was, and could probably trick her into revealing it to everyone. Having gone through serious abuse as a kid, I know these people and I stare them down. When I said never again with abuse and food withholding at 17, I meant it.

They hoarded animals and their carpet was covered in free-roaming pet bunny shit and free-roaming parrot shit. My brother didn't work, they moved out to north Clark County, and this monster was huge on telling people how to eat healthy, how to care for depression and illness, how to raise kids, etc. because she was "in medicine." Very big on "good energy" and "living clean" and she had a highly curated social media life. In secret, a bigoted barely literate alcoholic rage queen.

In medicine? She went to fucking massage school. She took over my brother's medical decisions and started "prescribing" things. There was never food in the house, so I'd bring food there. Otherwise, it was my disabled brother out in the middle of nowhere with no car, no food, and an emotionally volatile caregiver who would rage and get drunk every night once and if she got home.

I drove out there as much as I could. Maybe I wanted her to know that someone with a strong will (you have no idea) was watching and present. I tried to be what I wished we'd had as kids around similar abuse and neglect.

Eventually, she moved him three hours away, completely off-the-grid. She'd leave him out there for days: no power, no phone, no food, no car. My parents were intimidated by her and deferred to her. Not me. Once, she came home primed to scream at him and she didn't know I was staying the night (my brother begged me to stay and protect him). He was asleep and she came in ready to rage... until I came around a corner and firmly told her: stay out of the bedroom and let him sleep. If she bothered him in my earshot, I told her, she'd have me to deal with and I wasn't disabled in the least. She left and stayed at a friend's house. Fuck you, honey.

Eerily, I once told him that "she's going to drive the two of you off a cliff. You have to decide if you want to jump and roll before she drives over the cliff and she's headed for the cliff with or without you. You have time to jump free."

Fortunately, she turned out to have been cheating (I'd known for years) and kicked my brother out and she moved back to California.

I don't know, Jen and Sarah remind me of the woman who terrorized my brother. I can't imagine children experiencing that and not having one person who cares enough to get tough with these kinds of degenerates. If there's a case like the Harts or my brother's ex, then how many more don't we see or know about?

Hope he is safe now, R405.

Evil individuals I too have experience with, but all this #protect the community and going hard for child killers, with your name attached and searchable shows a level of delusion and perceived impunity that is new to me.

I imagine the Turpin case really had to rattle Jenn and Sarah and they had already isolated even from festivals and on line acquaintances. It was a ticking time bomb. A friend with experience in LE told me that after Sarah pled to child abuse, her probation would have included anger management and parenting classes. Instead of changing, they pulled the kids out of school, again, at a time of heightened scrutiny. Some people go through life believing rules do not apply to them, or needing to push the envelop in order to feel something. Pulling the kids out of school once the terms of her probation was set was a pretty ballsy move. The interventions did not impact her in a way that she backtracked and re-enrolled them. They were large and righteous in their own minds. The family and friends who tried to intervene after the conviction, I can relate. You do nothing and the kids think no one cares, you try to help and they just cut you off, or drive the kids off the cliff. It is worth trying to help though. Those kids were not resigned, they wanted to survive and believed that they deserved help.

Jumping out of a second story window wrapped in a blanket and fleeing into the house of strangers speaks of a level of terror that makes me want to cry. They were ALL up and immediately the whole Tribe started searching. WTF was going on in that house?!!

There is evil in the world ready to prey on the most vulnerable, kids, the disabled, the vulnerable. Saviors are so often wolves in sheeps clothing. As human beings the least we can do is acknowledge that reality and try to help.

Your brother is very lucky he has you as his advocate.

If there’s one thing I wish I could give my kids, it’s the ability to recognize these people. After a lifetime of near misses and minor skirmishes, I feel like I can. There’s a little ping...

I feel like Archie Bunker when I give these people a side-eye, but my experience with a lot of them is that they’re really damaged people. There can be a very dark side to all that love and light stuff.

I knew a hippie-dippie broad who was all free spirit this and that, and lazy/incompetent, so she depended on a series of asshole men to support her. One of them was a “roommate” who wasn’t romantically interested in her but spent a lot of money on her son with a deadbeat father. She thought it was great he had a male looking out for him but I think there was something bad going on there. She was all about love and honesty but she’d cut a bitch with her passive-aggressive comments.

Guess I’m feeling extra judgy today.

I'm feeling extra judgmental today too.

These two are basically Diane and Danny Schuler in tie dye.

I do not think it is specific to the festival people. I think this is across society.

Today's local news about a body found.

....

R359, I love your neighborhood! We had brunch at The Hazel Room, it was wonderful! We had brunch out every morning, apparently it's a big thing in Portland. Also had family style brunch at Tasty N Alder. All of it so delicious.

I have family in Portland now, my sister's daughter. My sis is threatening to move up there when she retires. I hope she does so I can visit more often.

You're probably not crazy about the CA invasion, we get it too from around the country in spite of ridiculously high real estate here in Sonoma County.

In fact more people are leaving Calif than moving to it. There is a Calif exodus primarily to western states like Idaho, Nev, Arizona and Colorado

[quote]Unless those were Hannah's baby teeth that were knocked out and the adult ones grew in, the authorities would know immediately that wasn't Hannah who washed up.

Not necessarily. The body could be missing more than the two front teeth.

[quote] Not that it matters now, but the family probably got most of their protein from eggs from their chickens and that's why protein wasn't on the grocery list. They could have had big bags of beans that they stored.

They could have bought beans. They could have raised fowl. They could have hunted rabbits. They could have been taught at home despite not being homeschooled.

But they didn’t. Because the children were starving.

This sounds very much like an excuse.

So much for Sarah as the innocent victim...

One former friend at the festival said she saw a different side of the Hart family that weekend. The woman, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, recalled how she had spent a day with Devonte and Sierra.

Their parents grew enraged when the group returned with food the friend had bought for the two children. Sarah, the woman said, violently grabbed Sierra, severely bruising her.

"It left a mark around her wrist for days," the friend said, in a detailed email exchange with The Oregonian/OregonLive. "Red turned to blue and yellow. She was in trouble for not sharing with everyone and [she was] called selfish."

The woman said Sierra later told her she would likely be grounded, and she often got in trouble for speaking with people her parents didn't know well. As someone who experienced an abusive upbringing, the friend said she recognized Sierra's fear.

"They seemed completely incapable of dealing with normal childlike behavior," said the woman, who later moved from the Pacific Northwest.

So much of what these women thought they “knew” was simply wrong, failed them and destroyed any real opportunity of helping these kids. Now they are dead. I hate these bitches. The terrifying beatings and food deprivation go hand in hand. I saw that in my youth. Home schools itself is an aberration - usually a form of bizarro religious political protest or just as bad an act of parental narcissism.

Totally agree that Public education is the key to the very survival of our Democracy in about 100 ways: teaching about Government, civic involvement via voting, history and political discourse. Lastly it is a breakfront for children in distress. A place where kids can have an eye exam by a school nurse if a teacher notices they cant see the blackboard - then their working parents can get them glasses. A place that encourages importance of cleanliness/dental habits and yes importance of vaccination. Lastly children at risk are spotted: child abuse, hunger, emotional development mental health issues, and with a teacher someone that knows how to approach children and provide them with a safe space or someone to talk to.

These monsters took these kids away from a Public Safety net. They isolated them - discounted thier personal histories - ill prepared them to survive as people of color is a very very troubled Trump world, white cop world, resurgence of white nationalism world, isolating them did these young Americans NO FAVOR.

But Christine Washington? This woman KNEW how fucked up these chicks were - she saw the dangers they posed - even if it began as simply as they couldnt do their daughters hair.

I am tempted to think that maybe something magical happened like they stopped to let a kid pee - then thought the car was in reverse, yeah I wish. But look at the long view. BS to that fiction. It is the ISOLATION of these children that clears up the mystery. The clear evidence of hunger, The “Responsible child” looking to feed his siblings. In a situation of trauma a “Responsible Child” emerges - a girl or a boy. The one that keeps the siblings “in line” to reduce beatings and keep Mommy Happy. The one that learns to lie his or her ass off to manipulate siblings to behave. The one that goes to the neighbors for food to feed his sisters and brothers. That was Devone. Devone was responsible and kept the Monster Jen away - no wonder he is in all the videos. His loyalty was to his sisters and brothers and keeping the monsters away - he was saving them. That’s hard.

Christine Washington would have sized this situation up asap.

Apparently it was a family friend in MN who found the body and not a vacationer. This is from a Facebook group. He searched 18 hours a day until the 6th body appeared.

Could you link to the FB group r418?

It's probably been mentioned before in this or one of the previous threads, but notice how Devonte's hand is balled up into a fist in the picture at r417; that's not normal body posture for a relaxed picture with your loving family.

Also, why does he look like he's 45 going on 12?

That kid had the weight of 5 other lives on his shoulders, managing Jenns emotions, trying to feed the other kids, trying to charm outsiders and get help...

A family friend searching - SO MANY people would have helped those kids but Jenn AND Sarah were not having it.

It's a closed group 419

Devonte was protecting his siblings and keeping the abusers at bay. Hard work for a 14yr old struggling to live himself. Also if Mommy Jen. Or Mommy Sarah got pissed it would be HIS fault for not keeping them in line.

[quote]The facebook post re Devonte makes it seem like it was his job to manage the moods of Jenn.

You’re assuming it really happened. I think that bitch was an EST troll.

R391 That's my point. Bloodhounds would have been helpful being put on the case the moment only 3 dead kids were discovered at the crash. I don't know why it took CHP 2 hrs to respond after the German tourist reporting the crash site.

Here's the bloodhound link.

Sadly, R424, there are parents who really exploit kids like that.

[R370] agreed. I’m a gay chick and it absolutely sickens me that these women and the people defending them are using the “gay card” to try to silence anyone who thinks differently of them. Child abuse can occur in any type of family, whether it’s a mom and Dad, two dads, or two moms. And as we all know and as more information comes out about then, they were definitely not the angels that their friends are portraying them as.

I was struck in the article by the fact that relatives of the DeKalbs DID call after the frantic visit from Hannah. Authorities contacted the DeKalbs and said there was not much that could be done. Had they known about MN and OR, maybe that would be different.

Clearly the neighbors DID care and the well being of the kids seems to have been a focus even of their extended family and their daughter who was a SN teacher. I hope the woman, in particular, will be able to live with this, she had the best of intentions in calling.

R412- I love my neighborhood too. I bought in the late 90s, and because of the California/NYC invasions, my house, a 3 br bungalow with walled garden, would be listed north of a million. I paid far, far less. The best brunch in town is often on my deck in the garden.

Of course, there is still quite the hippie presence, especially in the Hawthorne area, which sometimes has a low lingering physical cloud of patchouli, but it is the trustafarian variety more and more. Jen and Sarah could not have afforded rent in PDX, which is why they lived in WA, and not in Vancouver, which is rapidly becoming as expensive as Portland. The "open minded" queer (read: NOT gay or lesbian) types that go to festivals and trot out their kids for head pats and social likes, drive in for activities and attention.

R426, I am not clear how you think bloodhounds would have made a difference, the authorities seem to have been correct that all were in the car. There were no kids on land to track. By the time the car was discovered, all were dead so how would tracking dogs have changed anything.

That Sarah was so openly physically abusive and limiting re food while IN PUBLIC is pretty surprising. No wonder they distanced even from that, Jenn & Sarah could NOT control themselves even at the groovy festivals. At that point, Sierra would have been 9 or 12, depending on whether or not they lied about her age. The other adult had purchased the food, for Sarah to physically assault the kid in front of another love and light type adult is something most abusers would avoid, as would be leaving marks where they were very visible.

[quote] German Shepherds are the go to search and rescue dogs. Hounds are better following a trail, than searching a site with inert victims.

What about me? I'm really good with blood.

R415 I'm not excusing anything the 2 moms did to the kids.

Most abusers keep that shit at home. For Sarah to act like that at their groovy transformative fest shows a real lack of control OR a real sense of impunity. Did they like the thrill of the reports and the evasions? Leaving marks where they can be seen by a lot of people? They literally could not be around people without people contacting the authorities or being shocked at their actions toward the kids. Knowing types like this they likely felt that the KIDS kept them from being able to go.

Anyone follow Jenn and her thought process re Sarah being rear ended leading to homelessness? Was it loss of income?

Must we have the Angelina Jolie troll in this thread. The Jolie Pitt kids are far from isolated. Their life is full of other people, teachers, tutors, staff, friends, cousins, grandparents, other relatives, etc. They also participate in extra curricular activities from summer camp and local sports teams to music and other lessons. This is a tragedy which doesn't need silly tabloid gossip injected in it.

I want to see a full investigation into the causes and mistakes that led to this tragic ending - at least as much as can be factually determined without gossip and rank speculation. I am, however, troubled by some vestiges of the irresponsible and unsupported claim that black children should not be adopted by white adoptees. Or that somehow that interracial adoptions are harmful to black children. The National Association of Black Social Workers fueled this nonsense for decades though they now deny they ever meant this.

R417 here. In no way did I imply that non- black folks shouldnt adopt children of color. However I am extremely opposed to non-black adult adopting kids of color and not providing them with mentors, access to sucessful adults navigating one of the most racist countries on earth - the US - that “look just like me.” That lack of awareness should be accessed and addressed as part of the interview process in every adoption.

I bet it will be now. As it should.

R431 I give up. The 3 kids were dead outside the car but 3 others were missing (including Devonte and Hannah who had told the neighbors about the abuse).

The sheirrf's [resumption that the 3 missing kids had been in the car came only from friends saying the family always went everywhere together. That is not good police investigative work. Could be the friends telling LE that are the ones defending the moms and bashing people on FB.

The missing 3 could have run into the woods behind their house BEFORE the moms took the kids down the coast. No one knew at that point. The missing kids could have escaped during a bathroom stop or red light and that could have drive Jenn into a murderous rage. They could have called someone in Seattle to pick them up. They could have called a festival goer who would hide them. They could have asked for help from Nahko's native friends on a reservation. There are many different scenarios that could have happened.

We don't know. The endangered kids poster came out late in the investigation, was badly done and wasn't even posted on the Mendocino Sheriff's website when someone upthread said they saw it when the sheriff was on HLN.

An Amber Alert should have been called immediately. Some people don't watch TV or they are tourists on vacation. An Amber Alert has text written in lights on the freeway signs, portable roadside ones,+ go out as texts to cell phones that are enabled for alerts. Then, people could have possibly seen the missing kids or the family somewhere along their route and phone LE w/ their info.

I don't fault the Search & Rescue teams. They came out from other counties like Marin, Sonoma, etc. They are skilled at what they do. It's the investigative work coming out of the Mendocino Sherriff's dept that seems lacking.

Typo: sheriff

R438, I can see your point except it appears that they were correct that they were all together, another child has been found in the ocean.

The neighbor had said that all 6 got in the car with the parents I think?

I am far too familiar with the abuse of children but this starvation thing seems horrifyingly common, more than I ever would have suspected. All done by adults who look amply fed. Just sickening.

Yikes.

Harmony Park seems like a Burning Man type event. The drugs and violence were features back when the Harts used to attend.

[quote]The sheirrf's [resumption that the 3 missing kids had been in the car came only from friends saying the family always went everywhere together.

It also came from the positioning of the bodies that were found outside the car. For reasons unknown, they downplayed that and only talked about "friends said this, friends said that..." and "we have no reason to believe they [italic]weren't[/italic] in the car.

It seems pretty clear that all 8 were in the car. No searching elsewhere, or by any means, would have saved any lives, sadly. They calculated it all well, even to the tide.

These women were so isolated, it was more important to be seen to be perfect than to live. There were people who cared and who had tried to help, services were available, it never needed to get to this point.

It is unusual to foster kids so young, wonder what hole they were trying to fill or if it was always about $$$ and having a victim? They looked so corporate, both of them, and seemed super controlling and uptight but had been part of festivals going back to SD. That is eye opening to me. I would be surprised if one or both did not have abuse in their background.

Has the “light and love” community stepped up to raise funds for their burial?

R445 They were adopted, Rose, not fostered.

[quote]They looked so corporate

not at all

They fostered at least one other child when Jenn and Sarah were just out of college, R447.

Look at them in the Sarah bday video, R448, Jenn and Sarah look corporate as can be. No weird hair, nose rings, etc, from photos, common amongst their festival acquaintances. They were part of that scene since college.

Corporate?

Jenn did have a PNW corporate look of sorts, in the descriptive sense.

I do not think they look "corporate" anywhere.

Wonder if she really lost her job or if that was a pretext for moving once her probation ended?

Sarah even looked pretty corporate in her mug shot. Their festival friends have pink hair, shaved heads, nose rings. They look quite conventional. I have NEVER seen them wearing tie dye, even when at festivals. I would not have pegged them as being in the transformative music scene for decades.

She has long hair, a t-shirt and some hippy bracelet in the birthday video. It is dressed down/casual, not corporate. The festival people do not all have pink hair and piercings. Some of them can look just mildly hippy or dressed down. Which they were. Not corporate.

I'm guessing the person who said they looked corporate meant they just looked conventional.

Bizarre that they never reached out to PFLAG groups and resorted to this clown car crowd as “support.” Disgusting really. But I suppose they could find relatively inexpensive entertainment for 6 kids - and there were be plenty of man buns around for the boys.

PFLAG would have been too well informed, tuned in to maintaining 1st rate parenting skills, providing support groups, etc. It also would have required demonstrated same from the 2 of them. Not for nothing are LGBT people dominant in the field of Social Work or Clinical Social Work.

I think of the Lesbian mothers I know and reaching out to PFLAG Parent support groups is high on thier list. Supportive Public Schools also. And one other thing - they arent into “hoarding” kids. They know their limits and are aware that if things are tough now - just wait for the teen years. Although I think the grocery bills still shock even the most prepared parents.

I don't know what Kohl's hair and dress policies are but it's likely Sara couldn't have rainbow-colored hair. CCTV can alter looks (like the murderous Sous Chef in DC0 but Jenn looked so different in that Ft. Bragg market video. No red hair and even heavier.

If bi-polar hasn't been confirmed, we at least know by her behavior that she's a narcissist and borderline.

Sara hitting Sierra's arm in front of the festival goer may be a clue that she was just as abusive as Jenn.

I don't want the kids buried with those 2 moms. The bio families in TX must feel really guilty unless they aren't living or are still junkies or whatever...

Do you think Nahko is panicking at the thought the bio families may try to sue him saying that his song caused Jenn to drive off the cliff. Although unsuccessful, there were lawsuits against Judas Priest and also Ozzy Osbourne from families whose kids killed themselves while listening to their song.

R454 Your link is bad. Didn't Sara work for Kohl's in all 3 states (MN, OR, WA)?

I still don't get how they could qualify for a mortgage to buy the WA house at $284,000. Maybe it was a bank-owned (foreclosure) or the owners were so desperate to sell, they carried the loan.

typo: Sous Chef in DC) not DCO

It's a given that with Betsy DeVos, Sec of Education, and Azar, Secretary of Health and Human Services nothing will be changed to help prevent the human suffering kids like the Turpins and Harts. But, can states make the changes necessary to safeguard kids like overhauling CPS, having home-schooling supervision, etc? Or are those things strictly federal?

^^^ human suffering of kids

The Yukon had buckets up front or a bench seat. There were bench rows in the 2nd and 3rd row. Lots and lots of windows to blow out Upon the initial impact with the rock side wall that flipped the engine heavy compartment to flip the car onto its roof. Every window gone, The explosive impact forced most of the souls out, Sarah from the front into the back or the riptide current pulled the rest of them out.

They were all in the vehicle without a doubt.

Take a look at those hundred of pages of children listed for adoption, their photos and personal details provided as they are for dogs and cats in a shelter. So very sad and the expense and man hours it must take to deal with them has got to be a financial nightmare.c

I can't imagine much change will come unless more funds are allocated so more workers can be hired to put Ain good order this system of dealing with unwanted children.

R460, there are different policies for adopting special needs kids. Because they are so hard to place and will continue to need a lot of help, the adoptive parents continue to receive monthly assistance to help cover those costs. Some states provide still more help, such as paid medical, dental, and sometimes even college tuition.

My family used to rent a vacation home from a crazy christian lady who adopted a passel of minority special needs kids. She'd drag them around and loudly share each kid's tragic backstory right in front of them. Guess it was more important for people to think, What a saintly woman to take on those poor kids, than to honor the kids' right to a little privacy. She also would dump the kids on others every chance she got, including the people she was renting the vacation home to.

She and her husband adopted the kids in the state of Nevada. They moved to the Midwest later, but she told us Nevada was providing them a monthly payment for each kid, paid medical, and a college fund. They used the money they were getting from the kids to buy real estate, claiming it was an investment for the kids' futures. Of course, the real estate bubble burst a couple years later and they lost it all in foreclosure.

Kid collectors are all crazy, if you ask me. Animal collectors, too.

I just joined the Facebook group linked above.

R399 are you sure about most abuse of foster kids is by men...nationwide most child abuse is at the hands of women

Not sure what to make of the latest tweet by Nacho Bear?

I bet these starfuckers creamed their jeans when Nahko started dating Shailene Woodley.

This girl’s matted hair. Jesus. There is an entire industry and subculture devoted to the maintainence of Black hair. But even if Jenn wanted no African Americans in the children’s lives, it’s not that hard to comb the girl’s hair with a decent conditioner and let it dry in two thick braids when wet.

The neglect is there in the details.

Negating the Harts’ White Savior narrative.

me too R470

This is the best article I've read yet, and I'm pretty obsessed.

Jenn, taking snaps of her obsession, Nacho Bear. No other kids in sight and given the crowd, you can see why. TOTAL star fucker! Do not really get a sense of connection between her and Sarah, poor Devonte and Nacho seem to to be fixations. Hope no one else acts out his lyrics.

Poor kids. Guess headphones would have interfered with the costumes. Had to have been loud. Family friendly!

Markis and Hannah, often shunted off to the side. Being aroud a lot of drunk and high people can be scary for little kids, not to mention the contact high.

Max spent so much time with those kids, relatively, and yet did not seem to really bond with them. He is one of the biggest defenders of the Hart moms. Someone on FB asked if that was really how he wanted to use the platform his music gives him. He left it up. He is in his 30s but seems way younger and not too bright. Hopefully the music provided at least some happy times for the kids. Willful ignorance is not groovy.

In the Bernie clips , they seem genuinely happy to be there and to be with each other.

We can't see the Facebook stuff

Great article from Seattle, thanks for posting.

I do give Max credit for leaving a lot of posts criticizing him up. He seems to be getting it a little. In the article above...

Even one of their most loyal friends, Portland musician Max Ribner, said of himself and others close to the family: “We never got a ton of time in their house.”

At least Nahkos people have sense.

Just how much the Harts were Nahko devotees can be seen in videos on Jen’s YouTube channel. In a 2012 video, titled “Thanksgiving Blessings,” four of the children perform one of his band’s songs.

“We are so provided for,” they repeat, as one of the children strums a guitar with “Nahko” written on it in large letters.

At the end, one of the boys calls out “Happy Thanksgiving, Nahko.”

“We are grateful for you,” a sister says, blowing a kiss.

The musician was not available for comment, said his tour manager, Melissa Gibson.

They might want to take a bigger role on Twitter.

Both women studied elementary education but neither ever taught. That is unusual. Maybe their tempers came through in classroom management during their training? Had not read that about Jenn elsewhere, that program at college was how they met. It will be interesting to see if the kids were being educated at all.

More re the neighbors.

Both retired and often home, the DeKalbs said they rarely saw the children outside.

Beginning on March 15, Devonte began to come over each day asking for food. At first he asked for tortillas, which they gave to him along with some energy bars.

He began to ask for more as the days carried on, they said. He wanted six packages of tortillas and peanut butter, along with cured meats.

“It had to be nonperishable,” Dana said. “I started to get the feeling they were going to run away.”

Gradually, Devonte began to open up about his home life, Dana said.

He told them his moms were withholding food as punishment, sometimes for days at a time. Hannah had been truthful with the DeKalbs in August about abuse, he told them.

He implored the DeKalbs not to talk to his moms or call the police because he feared the siblings would be separated. The DeKalbs wondered if they were being manipulated by a teenager, or if there was, indeed, abuse, Dana said.

A few days later, Devonte asked Dana to leave food in a box at the fence line separating the families’ properties. The DeKalbs thought he could no longer risk coming over.

On Friday, March 23, Dana DeKalb called Child Protective Services at about 10 a.m. An agency official visited the Hart home later that day, arriving just minutes after Jen had pulled into the family’s driveway in the SUV, Dana said.

The door apparently went unanswered. After a few minutes, the CPS official left, Dana said.

About half an hour later, Dana saw Sarah’s car scream up their gravel driveway.

The next morning, a cinder-block wall near their garage had been knocked over. The Harts’ SUV was gone.

R482 R483 The FB page links are dead

those poor kiids, R484, i would not have wanted to be in that SUV with those control freaks

Sorry it the dead FB links were R477 R478

I feel really sorry for the Dekalbs. They did the right thing. I wonder if anyone has sent them anything sympathetic instead of backlash from the Nahko followers

Can we reform CPS? Let's give more benefits to adopted and foster children, including comprehensive medical care, social security, housing vochers educational benefits and food.

Who agrees?

Am I the only one who thinks Nahko is some black guy putting on a long con job? Half Indian my ass. Not that I wouldnt let him stick his war club up my ass,he IS rather cute.

From a former CPS worker on FB, to the point of the poster above who talked about authorities getting a warrant and taking a door off the hinges to do a welfare check - what does it take to rise above the level of visit and evade? So, maybe if WA knew about the MN conviction and OR report they could have gotten a warrant. Otherwise a game of cat and mouse until they got access or until that process led to the basis for a warrant. I think that Jenn and Sarah were not going to wait and see how it went this time. They left in the dark of night.

Mary Bateman - I think the child coming in the middle is the night that was terrified.... A child coming that frequently for food for himself and other children... The isolation from homeschooling.... That combination may have been enough for the police to get in the home or get a warrant..... I was involved in another starvation case and it took weeks for CPS and the police to get in this family compound, but they did.... And once the younger children were separated from the parents, they sang like a canary and the truth came out. One of those children died prior to CPS involvement...and they too were home schooled.

But, supposedly relatives of the DeKalbs DID call after the 1:30 am visit and were told there was not much to be done. A 911 call would have gotten a welfare check that night but there was still a good chance they could talk there way out of it then flee. So sad.

Maybe the immediacy of the child seeming terrified could have tipped the balance in the moment but cops may have been reluctant to pull 1-6 kids in the middle of the night. That said, if the cops arranged for CPS to come the next day and they ran in between that might have resulted in an Amber Alert.

The difference in MN was physical evidence, in WA it would still have been more nebulous and maybe not enough for immediate removal of Hannah. Jenn and Sarah would still have tried to run and do a Thelma and Louise IMO.

Nacho is part Fillipino, no? So he is playing that off as Native American?

See r325, r490. Then add to that the other side of his family; the ones with the very Filipino surname “Parayno.”

The social worker quoted above spoke of this other tragic case where some children were rescued but it took some time. Prior to the call, this poor child, also adopted and homeschooled, died. She shared this link, I remember reading about this case. Poor kids, out of the frying pan and into the fire.

The links work but only if you have FB. Sorry, I do not have access to another site to post them to without downloading software. They were of the kids, very small, the only kids in a festival crowd of drunk and high folks, looking kinda lost while Jenn fangirled and photographed Nacho Bear.

R497, you could try saving the photos to your computer, then uploading them to Imgur. I don’t think you’d need any extra software for that.

R497 The links still DO NOT work if you have Facebook. It says the content is currently not available. Now, can you please go back to Websleuths with your incoherent rantings about how every festival goer "typically" has pink hair and nose rings, etc? You pinpointing every little superficial detail of their FB pics, people's features, the Dingo lady being "homely" (when she was in fact, NOT) is all getting tiresome.

The Delphine LaLauries of the PNW.

Not on Websleuths but have been here for years. Talk about ranting, R499, you are a pro. Pics just came up for my partner on a phone. If it is tiresome there is a thing called scrolling. If it is tiresome, why want to look at more pictures? No idea who a Dingo lady is but I can recognize a troll. Blocked.

R498, not feeling moved to go out of my way for trollish R499, but you did ask nicely. I can give that a try tomorrow. Think Woodstock with just a few very small kids right up against the stage and you will get the general vibe.

WaPo article "We can't ignore race in the tragic story of Devonte Hart and his white adoptive mothers"

Devonte's hug was staged

R496 What a sad story about Hana, her brother, and the other adopted kids. It makes you wonder whether Jenn and Sara read that damn book about withholding food as discipline for adopted kids.

My take: The moms were young and naive when they adopted six kids. They thought they could save them, improve their lives, mold beautiful young adults, and be lauded as progressive, loving, successful moms. They adopted two sets of siblings who already had suffered through being born from addicted mothers and early neglect during their formative first years. Such children can be a great challenge even for the most experienced adoptive parents. Instead you have two sunshine moonbeam moms out to save the world. The reality of parenting six kids close in age born of trauma gobsmacked them and they began to lose control. The facade became increasingly difficult to keep up and they fell into hopelessness and depression. Too proud to ask for help or give the kids up (and telling the world they failed) they became increasingly more depressed and desperate. Their secrets were out, they were not perfect moms, and the kids could not be silenced forever. Perhaps in their confused and sick minds they thought the kids would be better off departing from this cruel world. Their terrible choice, whether only one mom or both, was to end it all. An act of desperate, depressed, and addled minds. I'm not sorry for the moms, they made their choice (or only one did) but the children did not deserve to die, especially in such a terrible and frightening way.

Wow, Hannah, the girl who jumped out the 2nd story window and ran into the house of complete strangers in the middle of the night was said by the neighbors to look 7, the moms said she was 12. In reality, she was 16.

Sierra was described as 12 but was also 15 and as a bio sib of Devonte may have been a twin?

I did not follow the Turpins as much but thought long term starvation also stunted their growth? I guess the lying about ages by the Harts made their sizes less striking?

Max Ribner gave the whole group of kids music lessons for almost a year and is in lots of photos interacting with them. He could speak in detail about Devonte but when asked by a reporter could say little specifically about the other 5, saying that they were quiet. It was like their whole personality got erased so they could be better props. Few adults were allowed to spend time with the kids, esp without the mothers to supervise the interaction. RIP kiddos.

Link

They also lied and claimed that the kids had attended school in OR. They had not attended any school since Sarah was convicted of child abuse in MN.

Jenn and Sarah met in the early childhood ed program in college. Creepy. Neither ever taught - telling. It was likely impressive to the system when they started fostering soon out of college then shifted to adopting other sets of kids.

Max Ribner has a lot of Native American stuff on his FB. He is less authentic than Nacho as a white guy from CT, with family $.

Max Ribner is with Bullseye MediaAdmin and 19 others. 2015 · · Dedicating this song to Standing Rock. As we enter the season of the cold north winds, we oversee like an eagle the challenges, becoming a little bit more wise in each breath. For those on the front lines or in need of a sliver of strength, please receive this and pass it along, especially the 4th verse. To the north: "I know that every obstacle is a stepping stone for us to grow, walk tall, walk tall". Together we will rise. Together we know this flight for water, indigenous rights, racial equality and coming in unity with the thread of the heartbeat is much bigger than us. To all my relations.

Video courtesy Bullseye Media. Edited by yours truly. Full length Dream Show:

There will be autopsies on the children's bodies so evidence of malnutrition or starvation will come out.

Yep. If Sierra and Devonte were in fact twins, why hide it? The estimated weight for Sierra on the missing poster was not on the chart for a 12 year old and yet she may have been 15. Hannah was the size of a grade schooler at 16, while her bio sibs were pretty tall. Just so sad.

The CPS poster quoted above said that starvation cases are not uncommon. Just unfathomable the evil that has power over kids..

The hippies are outdoing even Nacho, posting a pic of Jenn with the caption RESPECT. Hippies are trolls. Right? They do not really mean that. Right?!!

She is also in the Medicine Band, they must have a huge payroll.

Hippy chick runs a birth retreat yet respects mothers who murder their kids. How many people like this are out there? She is a certified midwife. Jenn and Sarah studied early childhood education. These facts are disturbing.

r336 you are terrible

[R491] There are social workers/staff who work for CPS, who want reform too. Hopefully, you can go on and help these very vulnerable children and improve the services and benefits they get from their communities and state, with state oversight too

Beauty awaits us. Let's awaken to our original blessing togehter, in a supportive setting. Delicious meals will be provided as well as opportunities to relax, swim at black sands beaches, and visit the yoni lava cave. To register: www.mothertreebrith.com questions: info@mothertreebirth.com go to 'retreats'

Respect for the yoni cave and for family annihilators!

Maybe Hope is like Max, with family $? The cost of living is high in Hawaii, can one make a living with yoni lava caves? It reads like a parody. Bet Nacho fucked her when she was in the band.

Others are starting to come out with stories of abuse by Sarah at yet another festival, refusing food offered by host for kids, refusing blankets and jackets offered by host for underdressed kids in Sept as it got cold at night, none of the kids being able to leave their chairs except Devonte,Sarah being harsh and controlling, etc. This is an older biker type guy. He said many who witnessed it were upset, that may be why they cut the festival folks off as they had their families in the past few years. He said as soon as he heard about the crash, he knew it was them. It seemed to be a cycle. Almost any time they were around people, concerns were raised. The moms lacked even the awareness of how to reign it in in public, which ime is more unusual. Abusers often act like Mr. Rogers in public the better to fool everyone. But not Sarah. Not at multiple festivals.

In their warped thinking they likely blamed the kids for the negative judgment of Sarah rather than narcissist supply and exclamations of how saintly they were that they felt were their due no matter how monstrous their actions.

Link to above, really striking details. Poor kiddos.

Listen Sherlock, R506, they beat a foster kid, their first, before they ever met then adopted these six. This isn't about being "overwhelmed" over time. Crissakes.

Can't anyone read?

They were evil cunts. Damaged good who were probably destroyed by being abused themselves as children.

It’s surprising that a couple fresh out of college would be approved for foster care placement.

I wonder what would happen if ongoing state benefits tied to adopting a child out of foster care were paid out only if the child was enrolled in public school. For children receiving stipends based on disability, access to trained special education teachers should be mandatory. It might weed out crazies who wanted a family to abuse and control behind closed doors.

I really doubt these women went into adoption planning on abusing those kids, and I say this as someone who loathes the “overwhelmed” excuse. Those kids were getting old enough to at least partly fend for themselves. Devonte was apparently taking care of all of the kids at the end. Those women could have stocked the fridge with food, enrolled the kids in school, and then mostly left them up to their own devices to feed themselves and keep their own schedule. I did this from 11 to 13 while my mom was dying. I didn’t do it well, but I did it well enough that CPS didn’t get called. I just got detention from asshole teachers for not doing my homework.

But they chose not to do this because they were control freaks. Their story kind of reminds me of my step-mother who resented my existence once my mom died, and I had to move in with her and my dad. I was a quiet, obedient kid who kept to myself, and that enraged her because that made me mostly impervious to her control. Even being a self-sufficient child isn’t enough for these freaks.

But getting back to my original point, I think the mothers thought of themselves as good people with lots of love to give, but the reality of six children who couldn’t be controlled to the mothers’ satisfaction is what turned them abusive. Similar to how my father’s wife thought of herself as a good Christian and an obedient wife, but she was actually a nagging shrew who treated a half-orphaned kid like garbage.

I hope both Jen and Sarah are rotting in hell with a Trump rally playing on a big screen 24/7

Stop linking to Facebook shit that requires log-in or being “friends” with someone in order to view. Screenshot it and host it somewhere (e.g. imgur) if you think it’s important enough to warrant posting here.

[quote], they beat a foster kid, their first, before they ever met then adopted these six

link?

R519 I haven't read all of the articles linked here. Which article mentioned a prior conviction or investigation for abuse of a foster kid (i.e.not one of the six they adopted)?

Frankly I am skeptical about the ability of most people to care for large numbers of special needs kids. It makes me think of Mia Farrow. Three of Saint Mia's brood are dead before their time and lack of money wasn't a factor in that family.

A lot of us aren't on Facebook.

I'm on Facebook but the Facebook links posted on this thread never work for me.

It’s starting to sound like Sarah was the ringleader of the abuse. A plausible scenario is that she was bullying her own wife into compliance, into running the house and seldom leaving it without her (Sarah’s) supervision, into covering up her neglect and abuse. It’s not unbelievable (under this counterfactual) that Jen chose family annihilation to escape a crazy, abusive co-parent who treated her like a slave.

Could somebody post the link to the story of the person saying the daughter had marks on her wrist from Sarah?

Also, there was a link about them having a foster kid BEFORE these 6, which they adopted. There was another one soon after they graduated. I've googled and can't find it but it was posted in one of our DL threads.

Also I am surprised there is no wiki entry for this event. I can't find one at least.

Obviously Republicans hate children and love the fetus. Go figure.

[quote]I think the mothers thought of themselves as good people with lots of love to give, but the reality of six children who couldn’t be controlled to the mothers’ satisfaction is what turned them abusive.

Abusers always think of themselves as either the heroes of their own narrative or as the victims of everyone else’s abuse. Both scenarios are narcissistic delusions.

And no one/nothing ‘turns’ a person into an abuser: these women were fucked up long before they ever raised a hand towards a helpless child. No amount of stress can transform a non-abusive parent into the sort of sociopathic dirtbag who would deliberately starve children and ultimately murder them.

"No amount of stress can transform a non-abusive parent into the sort of sociopathic dirtbag who would deliberately starve children and ultimately murder them."

Are you familiar with the mechanisms of the Holocaust? Ordinary people can indeed become monsters.

r530 I would like the link to that too

The info re the first foster child was from a former co-worker in retail. It was originally posted on Reddit. I think it was posted on this thread somewhere. It was summarized above. It is not in any article. The co-worker observed verbal and emotional abuse, I have not seen allegations of physical abuse of that tween/teen girl.

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r536 I wonder if they actually got to eat those waffles, you can see their heads are too big for their bodies.

R512, there’s a skeptical comment under that post from a Christine Washington, that’s the name of the woman who befriended the kids at festivals and offered to show Jennifer how to care for the girls’ hair but was rebuffed.

Everything always looks so staged. You are right, there is not a bite out of the waffles.

Struck by accounts of the kids being punished if another adult bought them food at a festival. Hannah was estimated in her missing poster to weigh 45 lbs at 16 and Sierra 60 lbs at 15. Sounds like they were routinely starved, like the Turpins, with even that food withheld as punishment. That level of starvation can have cognitive effects, maybe they were hoping to keep them SN and thus receiving $ and dependent on them? I cannot fathom starving children, over years. Sarah and Jenn were both abusive and controlling in different accounts, there was no fun mom or mom who really loved them as some have described one or the other. I wonder what went on when Sarah was gone for almost a year moving while Jenn had all 6 kids and was trying to sell the house? I get the sense that the romance was not all that strong between the women.

If you look at the Bernie Sanders Bird video, where the bird lands him - three of the kids and Jennifer and Sarah are there. They are looking pretty happy in that video, and Jennifer hugs the oldest boy, and then reaches up to high-5 Sarah.

That was wrong for the mothers to tell about the kids backgrounds to everybody. It was obviously to make themselves look like saviors and to cover their asses if the kids told on them.

I see from the Facebook posts from their friends they are blaming the media for spreading false claims about them being abusive

Consider that that over the past 10 years there have been many many medical and psych studies that followed the children born to mothers victimized by the crack/drug epidemic. Time and again these children disproved the myth of “crack babies” it should look worse for these women - reality of these young teens lives disprove the story crafted by the broads. At the end of the day these children could have grown into healthy happy adults with actual nurturing, proper education and emotionally healthy family environment - it didnt have to be fucking perfect either. That is what these 2 crazy women were looking for - image perfection :

“But now researchers are systematically following children who were exposed to cocaine before birth, and their findings suggest that the encouraging stories of Ms. H.’s daughters are anything but unusual. So far, these scientists say, the long-term effects of such exposure on children’s brain development and behavior appear relatively small. “Are there differences? Yes,” said Barry M. Lester, a professor of psychiatry at Brown University who directs the Maternal Lifestyle Study, a large federally financed study of children exposed to cocaine in the womb. “Are they reliable and persistent? Yes. Are they big? No.”

R538 I couldnt find Christine Washington’s comment. I did use Medium. Would you please cut and paste?

R536, excellent article. I agree with this, "We will probably never know what went through the mind of Jennifer Hart when she decided to drive her SUV over a cliff and into the Pacific ocean, though the song lyrics of one of her favorite bands might lend a clue. What we do know for sure is that she, and perhaps also her partner, had ceased to see these children as beings worthy of living their own lives. With CPS closing in after more allegations of abuse, they must have foreseen the imminent destruction of the image they had carefully cultivated. At least one of them must have found it impossible to keep up the illusion of a picture perfect progressive family."

The kids look adorable with the chickens. This is so profoundly sad.

They should have let the kids live. But I guess one or both was not thinkng clearly.

Here’s the tweet about the foster daughter.

More

Doesn't say anything about a beating

I don't believe that study. Who paid for it? Now the drugs are heroin, Oxycontin and Fentanyl that junkie moms are using while pregnant that harm the babies (plus alcohol). What damage are the drugs doing to the sperm of the dads?

I am pretty sure they grilled Devonte and his sisters after the CPS visit. Jen prob immediately assumed the neighbors had someohow been involved, afterall the kids were totally isolated. (Dont forget the man next door had already come over once to check on the scene.) If Jen learned about the food request it wouldnt have taken more than a second to figure out that Food deprivation would be a crime. They werent so isolated as to miss the story of the Turpins, the fog must have lifted that thier treatment of these kids was serious abuse. Sarah’s speedy arrival surely makes that a possibility.

With the previous midnight encounter and now seeking food for hunger - these two knew they were going down. They were such assholes. I think the truth is that they drove around for 2 days trying to figure out whether they could survive CPS/LE or had to simply off themselves. They did the math, they should have let the kids out and just done their thing.

This thread is filling up fast, as expected. I hope someone starts part 5 when the time comes.

Just read it on CNN: a body found floating near crash site, believed to be that of an AA female. I was hoping the other 3 somehow escaped. I could cry.

[quote]Can we reform CPS? Let's give more benefits to adopted and foster children, including comprehensive medical care, social security, housing vochers educational benefits and food.

That sounds great in theory but CPS is so underfunded they can't even afford to hire enough social workers to handle their overwhelming caseloads. And the bottom line is the system still depends on responsible and caring parents to see that those benefits are used responsibly. There was nothing preventing these parents from taking advantage of the resources of the already existing public school system. If they were classified as disabled they were already getting some sort of SS stipend. I'm sure they already had access to medical care but that still requires the parents to manage it and get the kids there for regular checkups. They already had a house and if food were an issue of money the parents wouldn't have been so hostile towards other adults who did try to provide it.

CPS and social services could have thrown all the money in the world at these parents and it wouldn't have done a damn bit of good because the parents were the problem, not a lack of resources except in terms of the lack of funding for CPS which resulted in adequate supervision on the part of the case worker.

People did try to intervene but the parents blocked all attempts. Those who did try to help found themselves as helpless as the kids.

The part about Sarah bruising Sierra's wrist starts right under the Xavier Rudd video.

R519 is a bullying cunt just like Jen.

I'm always struck by photos of Devonte. His smile is so fake. I never quite knew what people meant when they said someone only smiles with their mouths and not their whole face. That's him to a T. Just look at the chicken photo at R536.

Davonte looks like a 45 year old little person in his photos.

I have a profoundly disabled, mentally challenged adult brother who lived at home for over 30 yrs and now lives in a group home. I don't know the severity of the disability of the Hart kids but taking care of one special needs child was difficult.

I believe my brother draws our late dad's Social Security, SSI, disability, Section 8 and he has Medicaid. I don't know whether the Hart kids' bio parents are living or dead and whether they were able to draw Social Security on top of any other benefits.

I somehow thought Sara was the more stable, non-abusive mom who trekked off to Kohl's but after reports about her being angry and physically abusive about people giving food to the kids at the festivals, now I think she and Jenn were equal in their fuckery.

They denied blankets, coats and food at a festival in the cold Pacific Northwest?! Assholes beyond belief. Both Jenn and Sara had severe personality disorders, mental illness, and/or greed. They could have killed themselves and spared the kids.

The article about Hana and the bulk adoption of Ethiopian kids was very disturbing. There were many similarities w/ the Harts.

R558

He does and that is so heartbreaking. He tried to hold it all together. He was the minstrel for Jenn's videos and photos, the PR prop for these bogus bands, and the protector who tried to get his siblings food.

Can someone tell us what is going on w/ the oldest boys jowls? Nahko purposely excluded him as being subjected to past abuse pre-adoption .

Was this a Perfect Storm as someone suggested upthread? Would Jenn have done this without Sara and Sara done it without Jenn?

Markis looks like he had hypertrophic masseter muscles on top of a sharply angled mandible. Hannah also had jaw issues.

Before and after Botox

R561

Thanks for identifying it.

Do we have confirmation whether the Mesdames Hart ever traveled to Hart, MI for the womyn's music festival?

m, r561. I didn’t want to be a jerk, but I did wonder.

R564, that’s what I’ve been wondering. I haven’t seen them do anything remotely woman-centered. I don’t have a ton of lesbian friends, but the ones I know brought their kid to Mich fest every year until it was dismantled. They seemed to be extremely focused on males.

The more details that keep coming out about these poor kids, the angrier it makes me feel. Kids-especially ones in the system-are one of the most vulnerable groups. Abusers are really good at being able to pick up on this vulnerability and use it to their advantage.

I know it has been said that Sarah was seen being abusive to one of the kids. Does anyone else think that maybe she took it out on the kids because she could have been being abused emotionally/mentally by Jenn? One of those “Dad hits mom, mom hits kid” type of thing?

Obviously that is still NO excuse for what these women did to those kids. Just something I was wondering about.

I shudder to think what finally pushed Devonte to take the risk of asking the neighbors for food. Food withholding was obviously common going by how skinny the kids were and how Sarah/Jenn flipped their shit whenever someone gave them food, but they had to have been fed occasionally or else they’d have died a long time ago. Maybe the abuse reached a point where the food withholding seemed indefinite/permanent, and that’s what inspired Devonte to act.

I weirdly feel guilty about all of this even though I had nothing to do with it, didn’t know about it, and likely couldn’t have changed the outcome even if I had known somehow. Is this what white guilt feels like?

I don't remember my parents withholding food as a punishment, ever. But after reading the article about the death of Hana the adopted Ethiopian girl that someone posted upthread, I think that Jenn & Sara adhered to some of the things like withholding food as a punishment that's part of a horrible book the multi-adoptive kids families follow. It is huge problem in Seattle.

r566 I agree, I keep putting this thread in my watcher and then taking it out because it's infuriating and heartbreaking. As for the food withholding, isn't it said to be worse to be fed sporadically then to just be starved? I mean, harder on your body? Why do I think this? I swear I heard it or something, maybe your body is more comfortable in starvation mode and to keep switching it on and off is hard on your mind and body.

This is undated, something that someone posted to a FB group.

Another example of his bloated belly and skeletal frame.

Ugh, I can't look at his pics r570. His fucking dazzling smile just kills me. What a fucking life. Poor kid. To quote other family killer Jeff MacDonald's prosecutor, ""If in the future, you should cry a tear, cry one for them. If in the future, you should say a prayer, say one for them. If in the future, you should light a candle, light one for them.".

[R569]

Permanent starvation is always fatal, so it’s surely worse than intermittent starvation. Among people who aren’t being tortured by assholes, intermittent fasting is actually good for their health. But too much food deprivation can cause long-term damage to your heart, which is why a lot of anorexia survivors drop dead in their 40s. So starvation with no food == death. Intermittent fasting in a healthy body == good. Intermittent starvation in someone already underweight == heart damage that won’t cause issues until later in life.

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r573 Stop! Fuck, I am so mad, that fucking dog he is holding is better fed than he and his sister. These fucking kids were props and photo ops, period.

more photos.

J

R575

The dog is most likely dead now too along w/ the black dog. All 3 of them in the photo have been murdered.

^^ The only ones who made it alive are the Hart chickens and the cat(s).

^^ typo: out alive

r555 thanks for the article link, it sums everything up well

Still no evidence the act was intentional. I will not believe it until investigators provid e proof.

Aren't you noble and quaint, R581.

r572 Thank you, I guess what I meant is; isn't intermittent starvation more painful if you are going to starve anyhow? I know they couldn't just starve the kids to death flat out but if you were starving, don't you get the lightheaded feeling and stop caring after 9 days or so? That's why it would be so awful since these fucking kids died anyway, in abject horror, I'm sure.

........

I was at Pride in Phoenix this weekend and I couldn't help but look around at the families there. I noticed the dads with kids had them in strollers just taking stuff in. The women with kids had them walking, in the heat, wearing fucking face paint and stupid shirts with "woke" shit written on them. It really bugged me, it was like 90 degrees here, those kids shouldn't be out in the heat being props, like these poor kids were.

Interesting,, R543, thanks for sharing it.

The chronic starvation that stunted their physical growth did them no favors, These women were pure evil. These kids deserved a chance to live.

R567, I think that is what humanity feels like...

I thought that too R565. Jenn seemed obsessed with Nacho Bear and Max, using the kids to connect with them.

Love and light! Love and light! These people sound like they are in a cult. None of them even TRIED to help those kids.

So many in their circle go by names which include the word love, odd.

There are rumors that they were involved with a group that followed Osho, as are there biggest defenders. Anyone seen Wild, Wild West on Netflix and want to share with the class?

.....

R588: yeah, Jenn was obsessed with Nacho. Were they even really lesbians?

More info on the TX adoptions

I feel like most Dl'ers already know, but if anyone preaches too much "love" and woo woo bullshit, you'd be best to avoid them. I have friends that say shit like "I'm blessed!" when asked how they are doing and I consciously make a point to myself that they are full of shit. I know someone who has a "prayer alarm" set for 3 times a day. This same dude also sells his rx painkillers and buys stolen gift cards.

At the the link at R52 , it says "Jennifer. ..and her wife Melissa"...?

I meant the link at R592

Here is more info on that creepy death doula and the cult they may all be associated with

R572

I didn't realize you were asking about the pain aspect.

End-stage starvation sounds like it's really painful. It causes heart spasms and extreme muscle pain.

Anyone else skeeved out by Jenn's poses in the family photos? It seems like Sarah is doing a prissy "I want to be pretty" pose, but Jenn's smile looks like a sneer, and the way she hovers over the kids almost seems predatory.

Part 5

R544, she said “Respect? I’ll practice forgiveness before respect.”