Famous Borderline Pesonality Disorder sufferers

Lassie.

Jodi Arias

Aaron Hernandez

Angela Lansbury, allegedly.

Kathy Griffin. Classic traits.

Roseanne

Natalie Wood, Arthur Ashe, Kay Lenz.

I don't agree about Roseanne (and of course I'm only guessing). She lacks the anger, and she's too laid back. She's stated that she struggles with mental illness, but I doubt she's a borderline.

Ellen Degeneres

AS PER THE INTERNET:

Amy Winehouse

Self-Injury Shame Volatile relationships Substance abuse Impulsive Suicidal Eating disorder 2. Pete Doherty

Impulsive Shame Excessive anger Volatile relationships 3. Britney Spears

Excessive anger Mood swings Reckless behavior (i.e. driving) Substance abuse Eating disorder 4. Courtney Love

Substance abuse Excessive anger Shame Self injury Possible eating disorder 5. Lindsey Lohan

Reckless behavior (i.e. driving) Substance abuse Eating disorder Promiscuous sex Self injury 6. Princess Diana

Eating disorder Mood swings Reckless behavior Substance abuse Possible self injury 7. Angelina Jolie-Pitt

Self injury Volatile relationships Sexual confusion Eating disorder

Also speculated over the years: Princess Di, Anna Nichole Smith, Marilyn Monroe,

BTW I have BPD ( Diagnosed with it at 18, now 36) I am appalled(?) at how much ignorance people on DL were spewing about it on that last thread I saw. It is treatable, manageable with certain types of therapies and possibly psychiatric medications to treat other disorders/symptoms associated with it ( i.e. impulsivity, depression, anxiety) A lot of times, people have MORE THEN ONE diagnosis. ( I.e. BPD and Bipolar 1 or BPD and depression for example) and BPD is not the whole issue/problem. I have never self-medicated with alcohol or drugs ( not even pot). Not all stereotypes about it are true. I am now considered an ex-BPD and I had it SEVERE in my early-mid 20's especially and it naturally died down with age ( along with DBT and CBT therapy and some medications) It really impacted my life until I was well enough starting in my late 20's to see my coping skills were not working. It is no longer in my chart according to my current therapist.

Celebrities don't want to come out who have it ( and it's more common than Bipolar and Schizophrenia) because of the stigma attached to it ( portrayals like "Basic Instinct" for example ) make us all look like horrible people/serial killers/hot messes.

BPD's can be terrible to deal with and highly troubled but the stigma leads itself a terrible catch 22 in getting the necessary help to get better. People like Courtney Love or Amy Winehouse ( when she was alive) had the added mess of substance abuse to deal with that probably made it difficult to get better. Or maybe Courtney Love DID get better. (?)

[R11] amazing post and I'm glad that you are happy and doing well.

R11 explain what it was like living with BPD. Give us the real deal on this disorder. This will help identify signs etc.

Angie Voight-Face. Volatility, neediness- Constant need for: attention: to be revered and praised; thought of as superior to others; deathly afraid of people seeing her faults. History of abuse and being abused, eating disorder, high dosage poly drug user. She's got it all and then some.

Donny T

Kanye West.

Add suicidal tendencies to that list, R15. She once contacted a hit-man and asked him about arranging for him to murder her. I think she also has that trait where she puts people on pedestals (and sometimes knocks them down later). Remember how she idealized Billy Bob Thornton, and then Brad Pitt?

BPD is a wastebasket diagnosis, practically meaningless in modern clinical terms. It is part of a B cluster personality disorders but not clearly delineated or existing as some defined illness. Symptoms tend to overlap and not follow clear paths. Most everyone falls into characteristics of one of the "personality disorders." Read Karen Horner and some of the other not so new thinkers. My mother is a psychiatrist and would never diagnose someone as BPD. Neither would most other progressive clinicians. It's not useful to the patient or the practitioner, only insurance companies and biographers. Datalounge is obsessed with BPD and NPD for some reason. I think that speaks to the age of most posters here.

r19-not BPD just a bitch

I think that rage distinguishes borderlines from other disorders, R19.

I agree about Kathy Griffin. The immaturity, blame-shifting, impulsivity and vengeance against practically everyone she's ever worked with.

I can’t speak for all BPD suffers, as I also suffer from a unique combination of diagnosis that makes my situation unique (SZA w. depression in my case; very rare for people with BPD to also have signs of schizophrenia along with it, usually it is Bipolar or depression) but for me It was like having no emotional skin. I would get angry really with other people if I felt they were insulting me or they didn’t love me. AND I WAS TERRIFIED OF ABANDONMENT!!-- And after the anger, I would get depressed and self-loathing and felt tremendously guilty. Oh my, it’s a *definite* stereotype that we BPD’s don’t feel anything (like sociopaths don’t supposedly) NO WAY. I felt so much guilt, felt things VERY deeply. It all goes back to the BPD person’s family and how they treated them, common thread a lot of BPD suffers have had childhoods filled with inconstant parenting skills from caretakers. (i.e. parents who were at least slightly “borderline” themselves.) They fear abandonment. And will DO or SAY anything not to be abandoned. This is the root of BPD—fear. Fear of abandonment by others. The only way to stop the cycle was to love myself for who I was and recognize that I inherited these coping skills from my upbringing and I deserved better for myself. I had to recognize I was not a victim and not everyone was like my family-- and, I was “victimizing” myself by getting people to leave by how I was ACTING ( duh!) oddly I couldn’t recognize that when I was in the throes of it -- but that wasn’t who I was deep down. The real person deep down was a very loving person. I think most people with BPD and very loving and kind, the horrible way they act is just coping mechanisms that must be unlearned, it just takes some will-power, inner soul searching and work to get them undone and relearned. It lessened naturally as I got older anyways because you *burn out*(i.e. get tired of yelling and carrying on) But like I said, I was also conscious enough to stay away from drugs and alcohol anyways. And I never self-mutated (well, back as a teen a little but it was during my “goth” phase) … not everyone has all the symptoms. So, basically, now I recognize that people aren’t always perfect and sometimes you get left behind—not everything is personal. Also: there are different types of BPD --- I was a *stereotype* of one (sort of) because I was an *acting-out * BPD (anger, yelling). I had one friend who cut – she was very quiet and almost mousy. Not the stereotype at all… Anyways, sorry for the long post. I hope that answers your question R. 13.

*butting in * Thanks for your comments, r11. It really helps me to understand.

My sister was diagnosed her with it. She’s working hard on herself and I see so much improvement. She was an absolute horror show when she was in her teens and 20s. She still struggles, but it has died down a lot. Like you mention, I think she just got burned out on living that way. She’s missed out on a lot because of her behavior.

There is hope for improvement. Glad you’re doing better.

RDJ.

Charlie Sheen.

Pete Davidson said he was diagnosed with it during a segment of Weekend Update on SNL.

That's a funny sentence r26. I once fucked a guy off the coast of the Atlantic all summer in his ass.

R11 Glad you are doing well. I don't know if it was you who commented on one of these threads before and was dog piled, but whoever that was I hope they are okay. That was a really ugly, nasty thread even by Datalounge standards.

I sense that America's sweetheart has some smattering of disorders but is coping better in old age.

Oh ! the conundrum of prepositions . R27 think we can be head writers for SNL :D !?

R29, Who do you mean?

I'm guessing r29 means Julia Roberts.

Are Borderline people the type who just assume they are close friends with you and demand you confide in them? I've known two people like this. They both get enraged about how I never told them personal details of my life. It was so odd. I just responded we really aren't close enough friends for that. They both seemed perplexed.

Did someone mention Borderline Personality Disorder?

Obviously the diagnosis didn't exist a century ago, but Tsarina Alexandra is widely thought to have been a likely BPD case. When you read her story she certainly ticks a lot of the boxes.

Pete Davidson from SNL says he has it ....... this is ridiculous.... What kind of snakeoil is the psychiatrist selling him

Kristy McNichol?

Tuesday Weld

Julie Andrews, Peggy Lipton and Seth MacFarlane.

Mary Todd Lincoln was one, supposedly.

R10 - One more to add . . . Giada

Vivien Leigh

A certain 32 year old actress

Vivien Leigh was the furthest thing from BPD, not that it matters to dummies.

too vague r44. This is DL spill.

r44 can't mean me. I turned 33 this year (again).

I still want r44 to answer. Initials at least.

Mark Latham.

For the non-Australians, Mark Latham is a former politician and was the leader of the Australian Labor Party (centre-left party). He came from a modest background but was very much the golden child of his family. He was quite intelligent but I felt there was little substance behind it (I am a Labor voter incidentally). He lost an election as leader of the Labor Party and his sense of identity has never recovered. It was his first big failure in life. Since losing and retiring on a very generous parliamentary pension, he has become increasingly unhinged and ended up on the far-right of politics - rails against political correctness and femi-nazis. No one in the Labor Party has explained why they thought he'd be a good leader.

Judy, surely.

Surprised no one mentioned her.

Everyone who might have a psychiatric diagnosis does not have BPD. My guess is that Garland was bipolar which is entirely different. My understanding of BPD is that those who have it cannot read other people at all- and therefore end up alienating almost everyone. Relationships are nearly impossible, both professional and personal. Impulsiveness and anger go along with it- anger due to frustration as much as anything. Paranoia as well, due to not being able to read people- they assume the worst. And then there is the matter of degree.

Truman Capote

Susan Smith

I think Judy had some pretty classic characteristics of BPD, r53.

Aileen Wournos

r19, I am afraid your official diagnosis is "snippy and cunting would-be know-it-all."

Peter Sellers. He said in multiple interviews that he was basically a hollow, empty shell with no personality until he took on a role. Like many BPDs, he was a very gifted actor when playing a part.

Hitler is thought by many to have been a BPD. In men, usually BPD-ish qualities manifest as narcissism, but Hitler had some qualities specific to BPD. He viewed himself as a victim until the very end, believing that Germany had let him down. Narcissists rarely commit suicide -- in fact, despots almost never do -- but BPDs are at high risk of it. Hitler finally did it, after dragging his whole inner circle, and indeed the whole country and practically the whole world to the brink with him, all the while feeling sorry for himself for being unappreciated and "betrayed."

Mia Farrow reeks of it.

I wonder if stalkers do typically have it.

R53, to the contrary, BPDs are absolutely brilliant at reading people. That's why they are so charismatic and skilled at manipulation (whether conscious or unconscious). When they're "on," they can convince you that they are your soulmate, that your hearts beat as one, that your union was foreordained from the beginning of time. When they turn on you -- because BPDs don't see greys, and people are either beloved or despised -- they either forget you in the 15 minutes it takes them to find another "soulmate"/bestie, or they become vengeful to the point of self-destruction.

Jim Carrey

marilyn monroe...........per her last quack unstable shrink . Ralph Greenson.

You know, R64, I wonder what the hell Jim Carrey's diagnosis really is.

I think he has massive depression issues, but there could easily be a personality disorder as well. He's a mess, and has been a mess for a long time.

Thank you R19 for such an informative and accurate post. What is your opinion on my opinion?

Jodi Arias is a sociopath as is Roseanne Barr, and Rosie O'Donnell has (Cluster B) Anti-Social Personality Disorder (comorbid) Bi-Polar Disorder, but not Borderline Personality Disorder. I realize ASPD is a catch-all blanket term for B Cluster.

Borderlines with anti-social personality/sociopathy are very dangerous people. Think Jodi Arias and Aaron Hernandez.

Most borderlines are now diagnosed with Bipolar II, basically depression with briefer periods of mood elevation but never any episodes of mania. Bipolar II is quite a popular diagnosis these days.

Kanye West may have personality disorder but he is pretty straight forward Bipolar I, as is Mariah Carey. He was recently in the throes of a manic episode and was clearly psychotic.

Wino Forever seems like she has it.

--- the late great Prince: hyper sexuality, eating disordered, inability to trust, constant chaos, merry-go-round of relationships/marriages, intense need for attention and approval, addiction

--- Richey Edwards (manic street preachers): admitted to feelings of chronic emptiness and weakness, eating disordered, self-harming, substance abuse(heavy drinking) and suicide.

Lord Byron

Big hug to [11], Lol @ [20]…important topic…glad to see some thoughtful commentary, with some excellent humor in the DL tradition.

I strongly suspect Kim Cattrall. She has the trademark inappropriate anger and lack of personal responsibility for her own choices. Everything is someone else's fault.

R73, good call. I never noticed before, but now that you said it, it seems obvious.

^^ Yes, that seems true about KC, but those behaviors also describes narcissists too.

I don’t know about him, but Ben Stiller’s sister apparently checks all the boxes.

R76 I've never heard of stillers siblings, is she an actress?

I think she’s a comedian.

Definitely Diana The People's Princess. Throwing herself down stairs, pushing other people down stairs, stalking her numerous Ex lovers wives.... She was a loon.

R53, thank you so much. Thought was only one on how they misread people.

Your post is so enlightening

Let me think about this. This is one of the traits I've noticed but there's a few others. And no, I won't be kind.

They need to be identified for the good of Dataloungers. Let's do this

R95 in this thread however I'm gonna be cruel after chewing on this and I don't care.

Most common trait? This is what I've found and you may want to scroll up this list of celebrities and question it.

They're never beautiful. They're passable as attractive at best but never beautiful. Starting to believe this may be the crux of the problem for them. Truly beautiful people don't reek of the desperation so common in those who suffer from BPD. Think about it.

R1 OMG why on earth would Lassie be BPD!

R82 hmm ,I am going to have to disagree with that one. I've known 4 obvious bpd cases, 2 male and 2 female. All were significantly more attractive than the norm, I suspect that is why their behavior went unchallenged for so long. That being said, it's almost impossible to get statistics on something like this.

R11, congrats and best wishes.

Madonna seems like one

They have no qualms about ingratiating themselves to people who are better than them. Punching and slinging above their weight. To normal, healthy people they're dangerous predators but not purposely like a narcissist or ASPD. Their damage is out of desperateness. Still, they're predators who won't think twice about ensnaring an innocent better in their trap as long as it serves THEM. Intentional or not, that's a predator. They don't care who they have to take down with them.

Self identity issues and fear of abandonment is their catch 22. They know they're tricking a better person so they're always waiting for that other shoe to drop. They're essentially fearing not if but WHEN their victim finally wakes up. There's their anxiety. They're basically duping people into dead ends and when the jig is up, they know they're gonna get the boot from their host. Parasites. Usually spongers.

Being that they dupe and trap people without this debilitating "lifestyle" and who have it over them in spades in survival tactics alone they set themselves up for abandonment. Eventually get the boot. They'll always have a chump lined up as a safety net when they've worn out their welcome.

The trait above mentioned by R53 about reading people is that they often employ triangulation just like a narcissist but actually BETRAY the person they're dependant on. A narcissist is sly but a borderline is a bumbling moron.

They're ALWAYS desperate for living quarters. They're more familiar with Uhaul than a lesbian on a second date.

This one you've got to know:

They always have it in for someone from group of friends, workplace and family. You're just waiting your turn. The judgement issue they have is that they think people won't eventually notice. It's always someone's turn when the borderline focus their actual own issues onto a group scenario. They'll work out their self hate by placing it on a family member. At work, a coworker, a group of buddies. Always an innocent victim du jour. Upon further investigation their attacks are always fueled by envy. In healthy people envy is utilized to realize your true desires. Easiest way to find out what you really want out of this life. Envy is true to you. That's how you gage yourself. A sick person will not seek guidance on how to achieve what you have or who you are. All energy is instead spent on punishing the person for possessing what they want for themselves. Always backfires in their faces. Time to pack up and move to new dwelling, new friends, new job. They never learn. That's why it is a personality disorder in the psychiatric section of the Merck manual. Stupid and impulsive they'll think nothing of victimizing a person extending them charity and putting them up for free after their last vulture fest of landlord or boss eventually backfired.

They bite the hand that feeds them

There's your impulsivity and abandonment issues. It stems from this circular program of self defeat and they never take a lesson from it. They're pieces of shit and they know it. Can't skate by on good looks and lovable persona because they don't posess these qualities. If you have anything they pine for, you're in for a rough ride. Used and abused.

Dodge the bullet. They're good for nothings.

Glenn.

Angelina Jolie, Alec Baldwin

Here's the overlap concerning NPD & BPD-

Both cannot stand to see anyone having it better than them. Perceived as having more than them in any way, shape or form.

Being that they both are essentially acting in defense of their loser envious selves a family gathering is a mine field. Earning a living, putting food on your table isn't just the job. There's a whole 'nother dimension you've got to traverse because you can be ripped to shreds by these toxic sickos. They are everywhere. It's part of the human condition, everywhere on the globe. Some people are so sick and miserable that they cannot rescue themselves from their own envy. Human beings.

These sick people have held me back in my career and jobs. There were kids in school with these screwy brains. They're in the workplace. If putting in an honest days work terrorizes you it is most likely you suffer of past torment at the dirty hands of these sickos polluting society. It's effecting your time walking this earth. They cannot stand to see anyone happy or dare...comfortable in their own skin. Pretend to be friend or outright enemy you have a task at hand everyday. You're gonna have to surf websites to piece together a defense plan to recognize them. First step. They come in so many forms. Could be boss. Coworker? Underling.

When "operating under friend form" they'll always launch the attack of confiding in another couched by concern for you. They do this with almost everyone because almost everyone is better than them.

LEARN TO IDENTIFY

then zap. Because their envious meddling could end up you being out of a job. Can't afford to go get a drink no less struggling for a time. The damage is life altering on some level. Don't let them get you into lifestake level. That's what they're going for sadly. A capitalistic society ramps this competition into Olympic levels. A sicko could easily target you again. First identify. If the sicko perceives you as a threat and you're not playing defensive skills, the game is on. If you settle for less (of your true value) you're gonna be surrounded by people where you are actually superior to overall..might as well paint a bullseye on your back. At least a handful of people will go for you. You make them uncomfortable so they determined to bring you down to their level and eliminating you. There's no way you can control envious loser sickos. You could be dead and they'll swoop in on your carcass in a heartbeat. The irrational envy is endless. Relentless. You could give them a kidney. Wouldn't matter. There's nothing you can do for them. But there is a way to avoid becoming a target in the first place.

How do you do this? What's your tactic?

R89, wrong. They lean towards a narcissistic axis those two. Borderlines are rarely viewed as physically attractive because they're not usually exceptional in the looks department. Passable attractive. Do you find this?

Learn to spot the sicko who would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Sometimes you may just need a PT gig well below your station in which you're gonna be loaded to the gills with people who would trade to be you sans blinking.

When you find yourself in these situations and that sicko is attendance conceal your assets. Never, ever show off in the presence of a personality disorder in the B cluster. Group of friends, work or family once you identify this/these sickos you're gonna have to be working for a SAG card. You're not only humble but you're downright miserable. Start working the back story. Self depreciation. Make up pitiable stories, get them straight. Make it seem like there's nothing to be taken from you.

It's caused distraction while you wait for them to move on to their next victim after they size you up. Do you need punishing in their eyes? Of course not ..while he may have that car, his marriage is a wreck. You're so miserable, so self loathing they actually have it better than you overall.

I'm sorry and I'm not to have to tell you this. Get a handle on this social disease and watch yourself snap the fuck out of that slump. You've been playing blindfolded, that's all.

Tracey Gold

R86, Madge is a classic narcissist.

Lou Reed

Edie Sedgwick

[quote] pushing other people down stairs,

When did Diana ever do that???

Betty Buckley -- I think I read that speculation on the DL

The entertainment world is full of people with narcissistic personality disorder, a nasty case of NPD is actually a huge help in rising to the top and staying there. In fact, I think that a huge percentage of the people who'd have long careers in the entertainment industry have NPD, they're the ones who know how to turn "It's all about ME" into not just a career, but an industry! Madonna, Joan Crawford, Tom Cruise, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Trump, etc.

And one of the many reasons I think that Angelina JOlie has BPD rather than NPD is that she's currently letting a divorce ruin her career and image. A narcissist would do a much better job of appealing to the public and trashing their ex, but she's made a mess of it, just like anyone with BPD who's been dumped.

What was Michael Jackson's diagnosis?

Obviously he was a pedophile and a world-class addict in addition to whatever personality disorder he had, but which personality disorder?

Joan Crawford

Joan Crawford was a textbook case of NPD.

That old bitch had it coming R97.

R101 Joan Crawford reminds me of my mother who is a diagnosed psychopath. Their M.O., traits, behaviors, etc.,strikingly similar.

Roseanne, Sharon Stone, Garland, Monroe

Roseanne doesn't strike me as a borderline, r105

I think Michael Jackson was NPD. Possibly psychopath - but all psychopaths are also narcissists. I think one of the main differences is N's require adulation (Donald J. Trump). Psychopaths have a similar personality structure but without the deep-seated need for approval/admiration from others that both N's and borderlines have. Not just yes-men but true attention and admiration.

Psychopaths don't give a fuck what you think - N's care a lot, even if it's negative attention, shock, horror (if they cant get glowing affirmation like an actor on a stage) but it's LOOK AT ME!!!!!!!!!!! 24/7. Just screwing over people gives psychopaths and their sadism the rush they require to keep the emptiness and boredom inside them at bay, like a cat toying with a mouse before eating it.

Most of these various "disordered personality" traits overlap. Even psychiatrists will disagree on an actual diagnoses of an individual. A 30 yr old guy was a suspect in his mother's highly publicized death. He seemed a bit off as far as the investigators were concerned so he ended up being evaluated by two different psychiatrists after the police interrogated him. They each came up with a different Cluster B diagnosis. A third psychiatrist who was called in said he was not Cluster B, he's an Aspie. So even the experts disagree due to an overlap of symptoms. It is not uncommon for them to disagree even with the latest DSM. Suffice it to say STAY AWAY, they're all fucked up.

My daughter. She not really famous but she is a raging BPD with some traits of NPD.

R107 Psychopaths care about their image, some to the point of being obsessed with it. They may smile if you tell them off or laugh in your face if you call them a name, acting as if they don't care. But say anything that taints the perfect image they portray and they'll get even.

This woman is all sorts of Cluster B

If it were still a "thing" (and I think they took it out of the DSM?) - but Roseanne seems like a person with Histrionic Personality Disorder. Behaving outrageously for whatever fucked up reason deep inside her unfathomable head. To get attention? Disdain? It's so over-the-top and she's somewhat self-aware about it, at least I think so. Let me go out and sing the most fucked-up national anthem I can to get the whole country screaming at me. Who does that??

I 'think' it's what they used to say a histrionic person would do. Though I don't understand the underpinnings or the why's of that kind of behavior. Salvador Dali may have had that? Joaquin Phoenix on that talk show where he acted insane? Jim Carrey? There must be other cases of intentional acting-out that doesn't seem strategic or designed to get them anything other than attention - or maybe they get a rush out of shocking people? I don't get it (or her.)

R110 Well, that makes sense - maybe psychopaths are just narcissist + sadism. But I think most narcissists have a dose of sadism, so maybe it's just one thing -- on a spectrum, from the spoilt gradeschool bully (like Trump was) to the serial killer (now we're up to Bundy/Hitler/Stalin.

People are too complicated to identify and sort into categories like organisms under a microscope in Biology 101.

Now I remember -- some experts say psychopaths are born that way - narcissists and borderlines are made.

I'm not even sure they're right about that - we don't know if there are hereditary markers for NPD and BPD, at least I don't think so. But I think they can identify abnormalities in the pre-frontal cortex in psychopaths. Or the amygdala. Oh something like that. It's been years since I read up on all this -- then I got away from my NPD mother and haven't been as obsessed.

Angie Jolie owns this disorder.

R114 - Sociopaths are also made.

Maybe that guy who used to wrestle women in his nightclub act - Andy Kaufman? I think he would have qualified for Histrionic Personality Disorder. (like I think Roseanne would)

I think there have been cases of trauma to the head causing psychopathy - like a child dropped on his head during infancy or being in an accident, which lends more credence to the brain malformation theory (and I think brain damage can easily be causing during birth and not be picked up on). But I also think psychopathy can run in families so it could be genetic as well - like any other physical abnormality can be either genetic or caused by an accident or whatever.

Yes R116 - like a killer who just happened to be born into a mob family or his brothers were all in a gang, so he just did what he had to do - meanwhile, he could be perfectly empathetic and loving to his mother, lovers, children, dog, etc. What is it Ted Bundy said in that last interview, "I'm the most evil mother-fucker you'll ever meet?" Something like that. He knew it and he reveled in it.

I keep hearing over and over that BPDs suffered abuse as children. That's bull. Many had idilic childhoods with great parents who doted on them. They have siblings who grew up the exact same way with the same parents, but none of them are BPD.

BPDs are drama queens. They see every slight, no matter how small, as horrific abuse. And they remember everything for decades---ruminating, seething and turning little grains of sand into mountains. They think they are being neglected if they don't get 110% of your attention 24/7. So a parent who has four other kids yet gives the BPD 90% of their attention is in fact neglecting the other kids, but the BPD will see it differently. They feel THEY were neglected because they didn't get ALL of their parents' attention.

These are the people who go on to tell future therapists that they were "abused" as kids. Yeah, okay.

What r120 said.

R108, very interesting!

Borderlines differ in that they have empathy-especially for animals.

R108 hit on the box being checked for

◽Lack of empathy

NPD

Psychopath

Autism Spectrum

These 3 are the overlap cases. ^post above makes complete sense as to the aspie diagnosis.

Loving DL. ☧The sharing here is special. Got your back, this thread

The Axis II's (NPD and BPD) that I have know were coddled in childhood, the opposite of abuse (or some say, that IS a kind of abuse - but that's screwing around with semantics too much for my taste.) They're that good old-fashioned word: spoiled!

Probably not all of them. I don't think Marilyn Monroe was spoiled in the traditional sense - wasn't she passed around a bunch of foster homes? BUT: she was beautiful - and that in itself can cause NPD imo. People are in awe of you, they fawn over you, men/women want you, just because you walk in a room and they see your beauty - so it's another way to be spoiled. Probably child prodigies can go through the same thing -- the child singer Michael Jackson, everyone ooing and ahhing over him - Bobby Fisher the chess genius - etc...

* that I have KNOWN --- god I can't spell (in a hurry) any more. Typo Personality Disorder?

People are actually not complicated but simple. Wiser you become the more simple things are to understand, R113.

This thread is hitting it out of the ballpark. Learning so much here. Many gems.

Later may want to all research and nab the signs of any personality disorder. Then work through a common denominator list focusing on the most dangerously disordered. I might make a thread later and link here.

I find this so imperative to the gang here because run ins with these sickos have lasting, lifelong repercussions.

I know a lot of guys here have been isolating themselves. I'm doing it right now. I'm terrified of letting anyone into my life because I cannot take another hit. Protection mode can be lonely for some but like i said in R92, you've been play blindfolded, that's all.

Identify and build a defense. Custom build a defense so these sickos move on. How to disarm them if they can't be avoided. It's different for everybody. Build an arsenal and figuring out their m.o. so we can predict their next move to the point we're betting on them while we expose them.

Neuter these sickos and get on with life.

[R8] Rosanne isn't angry...you are kidding her defiance is not because she was fighting for liberal or conservative causes....tell NO and she ignites….What really bothers me is America seems to turn a blind eye to worshipping celebs who clearly have chronic mental hlth issues beyond everyday people. Jennifer Lewis, the AA actress who usually plays angry black women...is an out of the closet bi-polar patient...she is very helpful when telling people to get diagnosed and THEN get help...she almost pleads, especially with us Black folk who are still reticent about mental hlth and getting help...BTW her most telling comment was "most entertainers and performing artists have chronic mental hlth issues

That sounds great R125, but I'm so beaten down from having been raised by a single mother with NPD that I'd never have the confidence to put such strategies into action. One day I noticed, when buying some mints or something, that I was afraid of the sales clerk and trying so hard to get my credit card out quickly enough, say just the right things - not too much, not too little... Too many years of being slapped across the face for the least little utterance that displeased her (or dropping a glass of milk at age 5). It's embedded so deep I can't really have confidence or be assertive. I'm broke.

These people are demonic.

R123, the BPDs were spoiled in a way by being told they were special in some superficial trait by family.

NPDs not spoiled so they warp towards entitlement because they feel they were robbed of things they should of had when young. Now they feel ENTITLED to take it for themselves. Same base emotion and drive of most kleptomaniacs.

Let me clarify here about Marilyn because you've got me thinking when you said : "BUT she was beautiful and that in itself can cause NPD, imo"

What we all need to realize to protect ourselves is identifying these sickos. Being suddenly told you're all that, people fawning over you is unrelated to NPD. Instagram self obsessive selfie posting is not indicative of narcissism. Mistaking narcissism for VANITY.

That's playing blind

Thank god we're here for each other. The crux with NPD is not being fawned over. NPDs strive their whole lives for this. Contrary to common belief a narcissist has shaky LOW SELF ESTEEM. Flamboyant or covert narcissist have no inner core. The IDENTIFIER here is LACK OF EMPATHY. Monroe being fawned over could blow up her head to conceit but if she is able to feel EMPATHY for other souls..ability to put herself in the shoes of another- NOT NARCISSIST. There's your defining key.

BPD & NPDs base emotions and behavior stems from ENVY of others.

That's why intentional in NPD and unintentional mostly in BPD they're still DANGEROUS PREDATORS

Hope we've cleared that up

R127 🌞 That's why we're here for you love ♡

Grew up w/ NPD mom. Enabling dad. R127, gonna be back & tell you my identical incident to yours. She had a nickname for me when I spilt the milk. Guess it.

Oh no... "you piece of shit!" ?? I suck at guessing.

Mine didn't curse at me too much - just rageful slapping, mostly my face or thighs - only occasionally the hair brush, but her rage snapped to quickly she never had time to go grab a weapon - just slap slap slap. I guess I should be grateful she exploded so fast, and I'd run away and hide, and that would be it for a while. (I hid a LOT - I was an only child - she had men over most night and I was stuck in a bedroom with nothing but a goddamned radio, set to adult easy-listening which was her channel, and I dare not change it!)

What mine would yell was "GET OUT FROM UNDER ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" if I ever accidentally 'was' around. And on top of that, she wouldn't let me go outside to play with other kids and she wouldn't let me invite other kids to our apartment -- but SHE went out nearly every night, leaving me with hired babysitters or relatives (some of whom were kind, so at least there was that.)

Sorry about the gut-spilling - will try to squelch it. I think I really am over it other than having Avoidant Personality Disorder but I do NOT want to be cured - I have a partner, kids, several close friends, I'm FINE, but for the most part, Sartre was right, hell IS other people, and some of us learn that really early!

At the core of the person with borderline personality is an absence of identity and poorly defined boundaries, leading to constant mood lability. Also the "borderline" in BP is borderline psychotic.

Madonna is in no way borderline. She presents as a confident, self-aware person who has not demonstrated poor boundaries.

Angelina is borderline. She lacks so little self awareness and is insecure about her identity - or what she wants us to believe about her. The dressing up and parading the children in front of the paps as a way to demonstrate that she is a good mother - when the reality of this is that she is mocked , as it is ridiculous. The real excitement will begin when her daughters reach adolescence and try to assert autonomy and their own boundaries.

^ If the daughters are smart they will estrange from her when they are young adults or as soon as they can. Same for Tori Spelling's kids. I think Tori is a narcissist. Angelina's kids will be walking away from a significant inheritance but at least they'll have their dignity, self-respect and sanity, something all the money in the world can't buy. I made the mistake of not estranging from my disordered (psychopath) mother sooner than later. Biggest regret of my life. At least I did it but really should have cut-off all contact with her years before I finally did.

"Rosanne isn't angry..."

Oh, she's angry all right, she just doesn't have any rational reason to be angry.

As for Jolie, her kids will be doubly wise to disengage with her as they get older. Partly because she's batshit crazy and is a horrible parent, and partly because she's going to have serious financial problems the way she's living, while Brad Pitt is rich beyond the dreams of avarice. If those kids want to be rich, they'd better reconcile with Pitt.

channel this year that catapulted me in one week to finally rise from those ashes like a bat out of hell.

Copy/Paste this link-

parenting.exposed/characteristics-narcissistic-parent/

^was this author living in the downstairs hall closet? No other site, forum or book has ever been so damned vindicating. Free at last!

The YT channel below, best one ever. The girl is a sage! Healing with this channel is a cakewalk. Where has she been all these years? Surprising because she's rather young but wise beyond her years. She'll take you into the Sun. Promise.

Having a time posting Surviving To Thriving Link

R134 got cut up when resubmitting.

My dad caught her when she went ape shit and the half gallon milk bottle slipped out of my 5 yr. old hands pouring into cereal. Dad said, Relax, honey. In a complete rage she still screamed "Butterfingers!"

Psychosis=delusional beliefs

Classic Borderline.

Some mistakenly think narcissist or too high sense of self esteem.

This one ticks every box including my own observation that BPDs are never truly beautiful

My sister and brother-in-law are the two nicest people you could ever meet; calm, thoughtful and compassionate. One of their two daughters is the same but the other is a nightmare. I am not a therapist but I would say she is a sociopath. I believe it runs in families and can possibly skip a generation. My mother is a psychopath ( I posted upthread) and my sister and I are not, but my older brother is and our youngest sister is a narcissist. We were all raised under the same roof by the same toxic, abusive parents.

I think there is a hereditary pre-disposition to these disorders. My closest friend is the nicest person ever and she was raised by a crazy narcissist. So it just seems that there is something hereditary going on and I can't figure out why the experts/scientists don't come forward with this genetic information or conduct more studies proving a genetic link. My sister and BIL get blamed and judged for a lot of the terrible things my niece does and says when they didn't raise her to be this way and never abused her. She abuses them. And she's in her 30s now. She truly is a disgusting, horrible person. I pity her coworkers.

R139 is it possible she was mistreated or abused by someone outside the home ? Though obviously genetics is still a factor. I'm just asking because in my experience family upbringing gets a lot of attention when discussing personality disorders but experiences outside the Home can have equal or even more impact on personality development.

All the borderliners I've met give it away with some intricate crazy big lie. They are like real life Elaborate Scenario Trolls and the aim of the big lie is to gather sympathy and support, if they can add some guilt tripping into the mix then all the better.

There was the PTSD Vietnam Vet, the brave cancer lady, the sexually abused little girl trapped in an adult body, the poisoned workplace survivor waiting on a heart lung transplant the list goes on. It's kinda sad and I wish they were happy and competent, but I can't fix them and I can't let them suck me in.

r141, I have known people like that, and I think at least some of them had comorbid factitious disorder. They also displayed signs of pseudologia fantastica.

Fascinating, but also infuriating.

R141, YES! The Big Lie about how someone, usually a family member, has victimized them. It's a full-time job spinning the truth and mixing it with lies to stay ahead of the game. Because the victims of this are usually perfectly normal, nice people, so there is some cognitive dissonance when a BPD says horrible things about pleasant Uncle Joe, or whoever. The BPD has to convince everyone that the Uncle Joe they've known for decades is all a FACADE and a tower of lies -- really, he's a monster! Let me tell you how he's victimized me! etc etc.

But when inevitably someone says, "hey, let me talk to Joe. I'm sure I can straighten this out," the response is usually a hard "NO! he won't understand, you'd just make it worse," etc. So old Joe (or whoever) never even knows the full extent of the lies and whisper campaign that is ostracizing him and depriving him of a family.

I never thought of it as an EST but yes, it is. But instead of amusing, it's utterly demonic. "Once Around the Pits of Hell" or "Satan's Harvest."

I started watching the show Crazy Ex Girlfriend for fun. It's a comedy with musical numbers that I thought was just a wacky fun show for a Friday night. Come to learn by the third season that the main character, the crazy girl Rebecca, has been being portrayed as a person with BPD. The show goes into her meltdown and diagnosis and treatment without becoming dour.

Now in it's fourth and final season they are tying everything up but now that I know the first two seasons were showing BPD in the main character I need to watch again to really understand. My first watch I was just laughing at all the crazy fucked up things that wacky Rebecca was doing. I want to really understand the presentation of that disorder, at least as demonstrated in the show, so I'll go back and watch again.

I knew someone like that years ago R142. She'd tell me about how she hated her dad because he molested her and subjected her to crazy hippie sex parties (or some weird shit) and then she'd slip up a few months later by telling me that she was looking forward to visiting with him.

Every other friend's husband was secretly hitting on her and her neighbour was stalking her. She moved and guess what? Her new neighbour was stalking her as well.

There's no cure for crazy.

I always assumed Shirley Mason (Sybil) had a personality disorder, either borderline or histrionic (or both).

R142 had me opening tabs earlier. Realized more overlaps. I had forgotten about what is now referred to as "comorbid factitious" & pseudologia fantastica".

Led me to NPD BPD overlaps common in psychopaths/sociopaths. So if we have an NPD BPD overlap we're probably out of the personality disorder territory and dealing with a dangerous 'path!

Here's the checklist

R142 mentions hypochondria and pathological lying. Looking to it we can identify the root cause, reasoning for the malady.

Identify

Checklist for 'path

◽Factor 1 is labelled "selfish, callous and remorseless use of others". Factor 2 is labelled as "chronically unstable, antisocial and socially deviant lifestyle". There is a high risk of recidivism and mostly small likelihood of rehabilitation for those who are labelled as having "psychopathy" on the basis of the PCL-R ratings in the manual for the test.

PCL-R Factors 1a,1b are correlated with narcissistic personality disorder.They are associated with extraversion and positive affect. Factor 1, the so-called core personality traits of psychopathy, may even be beneficial for the psychopath (in terms of nondeviant social functioning).

PCL-R Factors 2a,2b are particularly strongly correlated to antisocial personality disorder and borderline personality disorder and are associated with reactive anger, criminality, and impulsive violence.-

I know head injuries can play a part as well. HEAD INJURIES can explain why one child develops psychopathy without any family history. High percentage of inmates in prisons with head injuries when young.

Sherry papini

Diagnosing pathological lying can be difficult. Psychologists are trained to understand the issues this diagnosis presents as a disorder. It is listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, third edition.[5] It is a stand-alone disorder as well as a symptom of other disorders such as psychopathy and antisocial, narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders, but people who are pathological liars may not possess characteristics of the other disorders.-

Watch out for people with a tic

Patients may have prominent borderline personality features and are usually intelligent and resourceful. They know how to simulate disease and are sophisticated regarding medical practices. They differ from malingerers because although their deceits and simulations are conscious and volitional, there are no obvious external incentives (eg, economic gain) for their behavior. It is unclear what they gain beyond medical attention for their suffering, and their motivations and quest for attention are largely unconscious and obscure.

Patients may have an early history of emotional and physical abuse. Patients may also have experienced a severe illness during childhood or had a seriously ill relative. Patients appear to have problems with their identity as well as unstable relationships. Feigning illness may be a way to increase or protect self-esteem by blaming failures on their illness, by being associated with prestigious physicians and medical centers, and/or by appearing unique, heroic, or medically knowledgeable and sophisticated.-

We've all had at least one bout with these lazy good for nothings

My mother was classic

R131 you don't think Madonna lacks an identity, due to all reinvention? All her relationships are volatile, and she was incredibly promiscuous at least in her younger days.

I have this client for 2 years now. Lunch meetings, get there early now. He'll be at the bar an hour in advance. Combined with xanax by 3:00, this pretentious ass is in full swing. Closet case, to boot. He blames his mannerisms on being jewish. He's not nebish at all. A feeling he's a tranny chaser. He's in the top 3 of most pretentious jackasses ever encountered. #1 is closet case top, he's #2. #3 a black bisexual femme lez.

Since he's a client working for family firm he assumes I'm this regular joe blow. Maybe he can sense I'm not and attempting to impress me. One time I let him go on and on about a prestigious school he attended. Even asking him about it, the whole 9 yards. Then I injected how great the nearby shops were in proximity. He bluffed knowing as I shut him down with how I miss an eatery as I boarded and graduated from said school.

Doesn't stop him with his internal locus disability.

-A definitely internal, not an external, motive for the behavior can be discerned clinically: e.g., long-lasting extortion or habitual spousal battery might cause a person to lie repeatedly, without the lying being a pathological symptom. The stories told tend toward presenting the liar favorably. The liar "decorates their own person" by telling stories that present them as the hero or the victim. For example, the person might be presented as being fantastically brave, as knowing or being related to many famous people, or as having great power, position, or wealth."

Madonna is an identity disorder. Always try to figure out who she is SWFing.

Dietrich was obvious as was Debby Harry.

Jolie SWFd her character Lara Croft. Brad Pitt SWFs anyone he dates.

Both madly afflicted IDENTITY DISORDER

Now enough with R131 from LChat and the other one, black LChat. Forgot the name.

What does SWF mean?

Jackie Coakley

Angelina Jolie - Monica Lewinsky - the friend of Sarah Ferguson who murdered her boyfriend

Proof right here. On an elementary based society where survival is highest level on earth, no time for the sociopath. Wiped out of gene pool.

Proof there's no cure for the psychopath. How we wish Ted Bundy was a kunlangeta

▪William Ralph Inge said in the early twentieth century, "The proper time to influence the character of a child is about 100 years before he is born."

From recorded observations, we do know that sociopaths, by various names, have existed in all kinds of societies, worldwide and throughout history. As an illustration, psychiatric anthropologist Jane M. Murphy describes the Inuit concept of kunlangeta, which refers to a person whose "mind knows what to do but does not do it."

Murphy writes that in northwest Alaska, kunlangeta "might be applied to a man who, for example, repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and does not go hunting, and, when the other men are out of the village, takes sexual advantage of many women." The Inuits tacitly assume that kunlangeta is irremediable. And so, according to Murphy, the traditional Inuit approach to such a man was to insist that he go hunting, and then, in the absence of witnesses, push him off the edge of the ice. ~

R131, JoliePitts both psychopaths. Now go back to LSA & stay!

Never think of L**inski because the full name is committing a sin onto thine ears

I've had who I would consider to be a "good friend" for the last three years through a community organization- also BPD. As we became closer , he disclosed his diagnosis to me. Unlike most BPD'S he'd been in aggressive treatment for 20 years or so (DBT). I was impressed both by his candor, high intelligence, and ability to tackle problems both external and internal head on. Our friendship was, I would state, mutually agreeable for a certain period of time. Fast-forward three years: my friend was involved in a terrible auto accident ( the other driver was at fault) and also unfortunately, a corrective surgery that happened afterwards, did not go as well as planned. I cannot say whether the surgeon or medical team were at fault for this but certainly my friend saw it that way. What I can also say is that my friend also started to become mentally unhinged from the crisis: do BPD'S decompensate and become psychotic? Because certainly, I think this is what happened. Now I began to see all the nightmare symptoms of BPD that I had only read about. My friend both called and texted me that he was cutting off communication with me for no reason. ( BPD's are famous for not tolerating the stability of permanent relatiinships) When I messaged his partner innocently (a bald man of 60 5'6" 200 lbs!) a few weeks later to inquire innocently about my friend's health- he contacted me immediately to accuse me of trying to sabatoge his relationship! Then two weeks later, he left me a vouce- mail apologizing for his behavior, saying " he wanted to get my side of the story". Unfortunately by then my mother had fallen I'll and was in the hospital. I returned his call- wearily- saying I could only speak for a few minutes, explaining I was visiting my mother. He then preposterousmy said he " had no idea why I called and had no interest in talking to me". Remembering again that BPD's were master's at Mind- Fucking, and with enough problems of my own, I realized sadly, the friendship was lost, and removed all traces of contacts with him. Never again.

R164, don't even try following after R162,3.

Stay in your end. TMI

"a L****ski" is a widespread lexicon, no?

Wow R164, he sounds exausting. I don't blame you for cutting your losses at this point, you'd be treading in eggshells around him all the time.

Sadly, this all sounds very familiar to me with regards to a long-time friend. I keep them at a distance these days, setting up meetings for coffee at places where we can't linger, otherwise they will talk at length (up to 5 hours) going over the same grievances over and over.

[quote]I don't agree about Roseanne (and of course I'm only guessing). She lacks the anger, and she's too laid back.

Sure, Jan.

Barr has Histrionic Personality Disorder.

^ Yes, RB is Histrionic and quite fucked up. She is also very easily triggered. I had heard many times way back when that no one wanted to work on the set with her but did so anyway as they knew that sitcom would someday land them bigger and better roles. She caused the cast and crew major anxiety and countless delays and was generally uncooperative with her crazy drama.

R164. Yup, dramatically cutting off contact. And announcing it with a big flounce. Been there.

R167. Yup. BPDs are exhausting alright. Emotional vampires.

R168. Yup. Hours and hours spent listening to petty grievances in a never ending loop.

When the borderline is the victim of the narcissist. This is so eye opening because it's hard to tag the true victim. Someone in the first few comments clears it up with a backing thought.

Identify: using their HYPOCRISY OF DEMAND

This is a good channel also but the bottom line here is stocking up your arsenal. Knowledge is an arsenal. La bibliothèque est un armurerie. Ignorance causes lower classitis.

Protecting yourself from personality disorders. Spotting then avoiding them. No money? Misery?= no glamor

^she mentions the hate borderlines heap on her including "you should have been aborted". Doesn't stop her stoicly calling them out.

Lisa Robin Kelly

My older sister had it. She was a total pain in the ass.