Apparently young people don’t like when we call other gay men “she”

Millennial here. My other gay friends (non use DL) all don't like it. They say it supposed to make fem guys feel bad. I get why it seems like that but I don't think that's the goal

I call it annoying and I am an older gay man.

53 year old man here. You call me she and you get a punch in the nose and I delete your number from my phone.

It’s homophobic.

It just sounds weird. Like, hello, we had fought against dumb people who said if you were a man liking men you had to be actually a woman on the inside, and vice versa, and now you are the ones pulling this shit? Just why. I don't get a lot of ancient gay culture, though. It just seems weird, cheesy and kind of offensive at the same time.

I don't think it's attacking fem guys. A lot of gay men don't like women and just are calling others "she" as an insult.

I have friends that call me "gurl" And it doesn't bother me

You have zero self-respect, R6.

The people saying it are other gays R7. I don't see how its different from "she"

Don't have friends that do it then... geez. You can't control everyone.

A lot of gays are homophobic, R8.

A lot of people got offended when Kathy said something like he was a "spineless heiress" - but I thought it was funny. There was a debate on here & the usual places about it... but nobody is going to convince anyone else what they find funny or offensive.

Nobody will stop using the word "queer" which I think is vile... but I can't waste my energy on it.

My preferred pronouns are glbxz, kltpyz, and blfscu. if you do not use them perfectly without fail, I will report you.

It’s homophobic and vile, same with “queer”. So, do ‘t associate. Agree with R11.

In the late Nineties, gurl was what best friends called one another. I would feel odd using it now because I’m an adult and no longer a gossipy teenager. Being campy was a way to identify and create a group identity, for good or bad.

I was talking about Anderson cooper... not sure how i edited that out before posting...

And for the queer thing, the kids who insist on using that term refuse to listen to anyone who tries to explain to them why it was / is offensive. But I have to stop using "gurl" and "she" because some fucking millennials or wannabe-gay "bros" are too triggered by it? Sorry gurl. No. I don't use it around straight people. I use it around my friends that I've known for ages. Plenty of millennial gays use it. Look at Drag Race... or anyone discussing drag race or talking among themselves. It's the masc4masc gays that are triggered by it because they have no sense of humor and too much self-loathing.

Also the radfems hate it too.

So, every easily triggered group hates it except gay men with a sense of humor and camp.

Aaron Schock is a "she."

R16, you’re a radfem. You post on a gossip site. That’s exceptionallyfem.

Gurl what?

I meant the radical feminists ("radfem") don't like gays using the word "She" - and the especially hate "bitch" or RuPaul's "Charisma Uniqueness Nerve and Talent"

R15 The only guys who say masc guys are full of self-loathing are the one envious of them. Gurl, she, camp-it's 2k18, how are those things are still things?

I like all of that, but they use it. Gay men that use it here use it in a homophobic sense. Like you do.

R3, why do you have numbers in your phone? You’re 53. Nobody’s calling your ancient saggy ass.

I have always thought it just sounded childish and it seems to always accompany lots of arm waving.

I'm sure it's a very masc, saggy ass.

It's theater.

In day-to-day usage, I don't use "gurl" or female pronouns when referring to gay men.

With a very small handful of gay friends, I do use it ironically to riff when gay men behave in cartoonishly gay ways - "Well, smell her" or "oh guurrrrl"

gurl, please....

"gurl" is fine (in fact I like it, it's jokey) - but "girl" I find offensive.

[quote]Apparently young people

Who cares what they like or not... they need to lighten up. We grew up in the trenches. A sense of humor was all we had.

R27 I don't think it's funny. I think it's self-deprecating.

I think finding it insulting is interesting. The implication being that being a woman is the worst possible thing. Fine if you don't like it because you prefer "he"; but if you're punching people in the nose over it, take a look at your misogyny. Or don't, I don't care.

R29 It's not what's insulting about it. It's being laughed at/misgendered/referring to the insane theories about non-straight people all being trans.

Basically it's close to the reason an earlier poster finds the word queer insulting. It's something enemies and bullies used to say. Using it ourselves is not taking it back. It's giving in.

It is very pre-Stonewall eldergay to use feminine pronouns for men.

I find it very annoying.

It's something Mrs Patrick Campbell would do.

I see it used all the time on shows like Project Runway. It just across as bitchy because they're not using it to be friendly.

It’s vile and annoying. I see why some effeminate gay guys have a bad rep. Stay in your lane and don’t disrespect normal men by Projecting gender chaos on them.

[quote] "Who is she? Who was she? Who does she hope to be?"

Pretty well on the same page as R3.

I’m in my 50s and I’ve always thought it was a self hating hangover from harsher times and never actually as ‘funny’ as the men who used it thought it was. It’s depressing that people still use it.

It’s one thing for effeminate dudes to use it amongst themselves with other guys who are OK with unconventional pronoun usage. However feminine guys need to understand that they are a small, distinct group of people whose terms and axioms are often fighting words among regular males.

Please don't refer to feminine gays as a different group from "regular males" R36

"normal men" "regular men" - interesting phrasing, bro

Actually, I’d rather be called “gurl” than “bro”. Why do so many people use that word now?

This is used on Drag Race all the time; I agree with the poster above who said things like, “well smell her” can be funny. Since Drag Race has become such a major part of gay culture, I think it’s totally normal for us use the language/slang in our everyday lives.

If any of this was even remotely offensive at one time, it has been 100% reclaimed by our culture, just like the word queer.

“She” and “queer” can’t offend because we hold all the power now.

My straight male friends call me bro. My gay and female friends call me gurl. Neither bothers me.

[quote]Actually, I’d rather be called “gurl” than “bro”. Why do so many people use that word now?

Me too. I HATE bro and I HATE dude.

I quite like "mate".

"Mate" is the person you marry.

Not in England, R43.

It's just a bit of fun. Not a hard concept to grasp.

Why do you call a men "she" ?

Why do effeminate guys even think it’s okay to thrust their queenie terms on guys who aren’t like that? They know it’s gonna infuriate most guys, yet they do it. And some gay men have nerve to ask why so many bi and gay men want nothing to do with gay culture or identity.

I generally don't like it. A guy I know always calls me princess which grates my nerves. Then he plays dumb that he doesn't get why I find it obnoxious.

"queenie terms" Oh dear... some of those people have wandered in. And hunty, if you want nothing to do with gay culture its your loss!

R47 This 👏

Those are very "queenie" hands clapping, R50.

Masc guys don't clap like that. Duhhh.

Who the fuck cares?

If a straight person called me “she/her/gurl” I would tell him off. If a gay person did, I wouldn’t care. To me, it’s like the N word.

[quote]And some gay men have nerve to ask why so many bi and gay men want nothing to do with gay culture or identity.

Testosterone poisoning is a terrible condition.

I address people as "gurl' quite often on DL. I like when they respond completely ignoring it - because they know it doesn't mean anything.

The ones who get all uptight (quite rare) seem very uncool - "I'm NOT a girl!" This happened recently and a bunch of posters laughed at him. hahaha!

I don't use misgender pronouns because I think doing so is dumb.

[quote]If a straight person called me “she/her/gurl” I would tell him off. If a gay person did, I wouldn’t care. To me, it’s like the N word.

R53 banged the nail on the head.

I thought "normal" and "regular" men are supposed to be more chill? It's not very chill to let words wound so easily.

R47 Yes, the majority of young gay men I know (I actually don't know many of them because most seem to prefer being called bi or pan to gay even if they mostly date other guys) don't want anything to do with the so called gay culture.

I saw a really flaming guy who called a dude “gurl” at a party get punched in the face. The flaming guy acted like he was a victim, but he had it coming.

Stop fucking guys and I call you "he" "him" and "man,"

otherwise it's "hey girl, how is she?"

Masc4Masc is 100x More Offensive!

[quote]The only guys who say masc guys are full of self-loathing are the one envious of them.

But they are blanche, they* are self-loathing

(*) The ones with no sense of humor, who are uptight, and "discrete" - not all of them.

[quote]I saw a really flaming guy who called a dude “gurl” at a party get punched in the face. The flaming guy acted like he was a victim, but he had it coming.

This never happened.

I love DL. On a gay board, flaming guys deserve to get punched in the face.

By the power of VRIL, I summon... The Kathy Griffin Gurrrrlll gif poster!

[quote]I love DL. On a gay board, flaming guys deserve to get punched in the face

Tuffgurl!

so calling someone male "bitch" or "cunt" is ok, but "gurl" or "she" is offensive.

Urban dudes with 'swag' call their women bitches and hoes, but don't dare call them 'gurl' when they're getting dick on the side!

There Is so much content on here that is not gossip that draws folks here. The flexing buff guys and political discussion get the most hype on here. It’s not much of a gossip board despite its label

[quote]I saw a really flaming guy who called a dude “gurl” at a party get punched in the face. The flaming guy acted like he was a victim, but he had it coming.

LOL bullshit r60 GURL.

This topic is so stupid. There is no universal thing here. Do what you want with your own friends. Why is this even a "debate"? Nobody is going to police what I say to my friends and vice versa, I don't give a shit what you say to yours. I don't really care if straight guys call me "bro" and "dude" either - though both terms are worse than "gurl" honestly. I noticed FTMs LOOOVE to use "bro" and "dude" constantly - so they can have it...along with the "masc4masc" queens.

"Sup bro - are you a top??" Gurl bye.

[quote]Urban dudes with 'swag' call their women bitches and hoes, but don't dare call them 'gurl' when they're getting dick on the side!

I don't think I'm going to start caring what "urban dudes" say or think, anytime soon.

"That's because you're old and out of touch, dude."

It's tacky and tired and usually accompanied by a host of other trashy terms.

It's an affectation that has always annoyed me.

R61 So from your logic a man topping a woman is a man, a man topping a man is a woman, a man bottoming for a man is also a woman, what that makes a man bottoming for a woman with a strap-on? Two lesbians?

It’s also a holdover from the days when gays had to talk in code to reduce the chances of getting their heads bashed in. You modern gurls REALLY have it hard.

Kids today would rather focus on meaningless minutae than solve real issues.

R76 is right. It's not a co-opting of an offensive term - so some of you gals are going to have to find a different reason to be so hysterical about it.

57 here, and I think it shows a lack of self-respect.

The ones of you who are triggered by this can join the FTM here who was also lecturing everyone how it is very triggering and hurtful to use such a horrible term.

I hope you're happy to be in such good company.

And by the way, Reddit is mostly "young gays" who don't give a shit & sit and judge ALL FUCKING DAY LONG like people on DL. OP is full of it.

You have to click the [+] next to "justsomeFTMdude" to expand her/his comments because they got so many downvotes, the comments were all collapsed.

R75, if a top stopped topping and took to toping and topiary, would a polyglot plot a lot?

[quote]I saw a really flaming guy who called a dude “gurl” at a party get punched in the face. The flaming guy acted like he was a victim, but he had it coming.

Not only did this not happen -- as noted above -- but R60 said it because he [italic]wishes[/italic] (with all his rancid heart) that it happened. It's not really a party until a (fellow) queer gets bashed, obvi.

I'm reminded of this important part of the enduring DL charter:

[quote]This site contains all kinds of pointless shit posted by very peculiar people.

But the use of Girl, Queen, Sis, Bitch and Ho are not only acceptable, but encouraged.

And r83 calls him a "queer."

R80 FTM, you mean straight girls ?

FTM = Female - To - Male Transsexual.

To be clear, r85, I'm calling all of us queers queers, including me. Now turn all red in the face from pointless rage and go back to your adult beverage.

Don't call me a queer, cunt.

Or else you'll get punched in the face. And deserve it.

[quote] If a straight person called me “she/her/gurl” I would tell him off. If a gay person did, I wouldn’t care. To me, it’s like the N word.

This is not a valid comparison. What a stupid thing to say.

I am not an "alpha bro," either, R90. I am simply old enough to think "queer" should be referred to as "the Q word."

If your sense masculinity is so fragile that it can be stolen by being called 'she' (taking into account context and relationship to the person) , then I would really analyse whether the foundations of my personality are durable.

Early 40's here, and while I can somewhat understand why people less than half my age might be questioning why some of us still use expressions like "she" - I think you're not understanding the context of how it was used decades ago vs. today. I don't think it was ever meant to be a direct attack on anyone in the community who happened to be transgender or effeminate. It was, at least in my understanding, a more collective term used to identify all of us - whether you were the queeniest of all queens or the butchest hairy leather daddy of them all. It was just a lighthearted inside joke used among us all. It's like calling someone a "Mary". I see many younger gay folks these days throwing around similar phrases like "fishy" - isn't that equally offensive to you?

R93 "whether the foundations of my personality are durable "

Termites at work.

This goes way back, before Stonewall. Gay men, in the past, sometimes referred to another gay man as “she” or “her”. It was usually with annoyance or agitation or humor.

For instance, if a man was haughty or arrogant or fake, the response was “Well, get HER?? or “Who in the hell does that queen think she is?” Another popular one was “she had a bee in her bonnet”, if a gay man was bitchy or angry.

Gay men too, would call another gay guy “Mary” as an exclaimation of surprise or bewilderment. Other feminine names were used, too, particularly of famous female movie stars or female characters in movies and plays. For instance, if a man was a bitchy clean freak, he was “Joan Crawford. If he was a strong, arrogant, bitchy, attitude laden person, he was “Bette Davis.” If he dressed ostentatiously, wore jewelry and was around the block a few times, he was “Elizabeth Taylor”. If he was overly dramatic and was suffering, he might be “Susan Hayward”. Often movie dialogue was used, as well.

This was all done in “camp” or being “campy”. It was humor and hilarity. It’s kept alive by drag queens and older gay men, and those gay men of the arts.

R94 here, just to clarify here a bit further. As someone who is a homosexual biological male and identifies as male, the very people who even explained what stuff like guys referring to all other guys as "she", or "mary", or "bitch" when I first started coming out were - you guessed it, trans & effeminiate gay folks. The OP is making it sound like gay guys who identify as male and aren't trans were coming up with some secret language to criticize gay folks who were trans and/or fem. I felt welcomed into the LGBT community at a very young age 20+ years ago, with learning the lingo as part of the process. I never refer to someone as "she" or a "mary" these days as a mean spirited insult.

R94, I find "fishy," etc, very offensive, to the extent that I block the user.

This is why masc and fem guys generally don’t Hang with each other. Totally different sensibilities and senses of humor/male bonding.

All that she shit is so lame, makes me embarrassed to be gay.

It’s homophobic. Enough.

[quote]It’s homophobic. Enough.

Self-righteous indignation is exhausting.

But, I'm glad to know that there are whole groups of folks out there deciding that we should collectively be outraged.

You don't like it - don't use it. It's actually rather simple. Beyond an occasional joke, I'm not likely going to use them, but like hell some silly outraged fool is going to tell me that I can't.

Considering the things I've been called since school days, "she" or "gurl" would have been so innocuous.

It's OUR "nigga."

I feel sad for the people with no sense of humor / camp / amusement, but I feel worse for myself knowing how many more of them are out there than I thought.

R102, I think most are okay if a certain subculture of gay men want to consentually use it among themselves. IT’s When they project it on the majority of other men who don’t want to be called female markers that it becomes a problem

[quote]IT’s When they project it on the majority of other men who don’t want to be called female markers that it becomes a problem

Why would I waste my time around a bunch of butch queens tho?

"I do not consent! I DO NOT CONSENT!"

[quote]Self-righteous indignation is exhausting.

It doesn’t matter what you call it or how you defend it. A rose by any other name is still a rose. It’s homophobic. ENOUGH.

[quote]—Lets watch sports brah

I don’t like sports.

It's not homophobic, Rose! (r109)

Yes, it is R111. Blocked. And, so is this thread. I agree though, please use call gay men “she” and “her” and “fags” (or “racist f-ggots” with the a) and “queers” and lesbians “dykes”, like you usually do. This is Datalounge, and it hates gays (and “trannies”).

All the gays bashing masc4masc bros should be glad bi/gay men are masculine have options with other, and fem guys have their own kind to hang with. Tolerance

Thoughts and prayers to all you downtrodden masc4masc jockbros. Our hearts go out to you.

It’s a real problem man

Well then, like I said - thoughts and prayers. They solve everything.

Oooooo gurl, that masc queen is BLOCKING now!

R105 I don't even know why camp and gay have to be related. It's annoying. Yes, I'm sexually attracted to men, that's it, there is nothing else to it, quit applying the dumb stereotypes to my personality. They aren't even attractive.

It’s part of the catty drag queen persona a lot of effeminate gay males adopt. Some claim IT is a coping mechanism, but it only further alienates them from other males.

Who said it's a "coping mechanism" ?

Jesus you people take this shit way too seriously.

You sound horrendously boring too. Tell me about a night or weekend out for you, dear anti-camp DLers. Do you sit at the dinner table eating your hamburger and drinking your Miller Lite without talking to any other people at the table, and then get in your Civic & go back to your 1-br apartment with fluorescent lights, nothing on the walls, and discount Furniture from Bob's or Ashley? Then, do you hang up your mom jeans right away or do you put them "in the wash" before you shower with Target brand shampoo / body-wash & return to your job in accounting the next day?

Paint me a picture of your (superior) existence, please.

Settle down, Mary.

[quote]I find "fishy," etc, very offensive, to the extent that I block the user.

I can't believe someone is so triggered by this that they actually block people over it.

Oh wait, that's you, Mary r121!

I don’t he’s triggered so much as doesn’t identify with or want to be involved with it. Nothing wrong with that

Then why does he tell another poster to "Settle down, Mary " ten minutes later?

R112 has been triggered and has stated her boundaries!

O Snap R120!! You go gurl !!!

I deeply care about what millennials like and don't like!

I await the verbal picture of your existence, not "O snap - you go girl"

Thank you.

[quote] I saw a really flaming guy who called a dude “gurl” at a party get punched in the face. The flaming guy acted like he was a victim, but he had it coming.

Gurl, this never happened!

It was very prevalent to use in the 90's and 00's in the nyc club world. It's like, you weren't in that world and not calling each other /her/she/girl. It wasn't a dis, it was just a habit. Even the muscle and leather queens trying to be butch used it. In the real world these days I never use it except around my friends who used to go to the clubs. It's VERY antiquated and also confusing for people.

What did r130 do?

Somebody is on somebody's s**t list...

“Also the radfems hate it too.”

Why would they care what we call each other?

So let me get this straight... the millennials hate it, the radfems hate it, the trans community hates it, and the lesbians hate it...

By God, that settles it! I'm going to keep doing it for the rest of my life!

r133- They don't like men using female terms because they think we use it to imply the feminine is a "lesser than" thing.

They hate bitch far more, and cunt is like the worst possible thing you can ever say in their world.

lol r134 - amen.

😂😂😂 r134! AMEN!!

Yeah well, I don't like it when young people call gay men "queer." I hate that word. It's degrading and insulting--and I don't want to "own" it. Don't use it.

R67.....Let’s Do The Trouser Press, Baby!

I am not Cis either. Language has become ugly.

OMG - a red tag on R136! I haven't seen one of those for years on DL. Love it.

Mary!

[quote]OMG - a red tag on [R136]! I haven't seen one of those for years on DL. Love it.

Gurl. they're BACK!

& HOW!

I've started to stop listening to people who use "she" or the "auto-hon".

Shu's lovers = 'she' and tunatasters = 'he'

[quote] [R133]- They don't like men using female terms because they think we use it to imply the feminine is a "lesser than" thing. They hate bitch far more, and cunt is like the worst possible thing you can ever say in their world.

They're not your words to use.

This used to bother me when I was really young...and an asshole. Then I grew up and realized my irritation was more about self-hatred than something so harmless.

I LOVE MY RED TAG!!! It only proves how intolerant the left wing and data lounge is of differing opinions. Seriously? Right wing propagandist? You can do better than that. That proves that data lounge is nothing more than left wing propaganda that is brainwashed by CNN and msnbc. Now all you've been hoping for (collusion) has been ripped out from under you and you're all scrambling for something to hold on to. Poor things.

The red tags are pretty silly. We can’t make up our own minds and need big sister to protect us?

Well, r148, that's the left wing for you: the queens of stompy pants. "Waaaaaahhhhh, you don't think like us, you will be PUNISHED!!"

R149 looks like she's posting from jail.

Lol r140, EXACTLY! Thank you, that "she" made my day! 😂 Fucking great timing!

UGH, that's supposed to be for r150 !! It's folks like her that keep me coming back to DL. I come here for the great (occasional) wit that sometimes happens.

Where is the free speech on this thread ?

R153, obviously there is NO free speech on DL unless you think ONE way. As long as you are a liberal, you can call for the beheading and killing of anyone who doesn't think the way you think they should. If you're conservative, you will be silenced because there's nothing worse than a truth teller to a liberal.

Hmmmm

R153, if there were really no free speech on this thread, the swill at R149, 151 and 154 would not be in evidence at all.

I'm so glad that red-tagged poster has proven to be rational and calm and completely undeserving of a red tag. Censorship really chaps my pussy.

Well, we haven't seen the original thread that triggered the tag.

I just came across r154 's tag in another thread.

[quote]She's gross and "thirsty" although I HATE THAT WORD!!! Ugh just go away with your tiny little head and flip flopping. Pence was very smart to OWN this little queen right from the beginning, and this fag looked ridiculous and stupid AF with all her political shit talking that she THEN wished she'd taken back. YOU LOSE, sweetie, now go retire to a trailer park forever. You're done in less than six months unless you go get gang banged bareback with T.I.M. and then resort to All Fans.

r158 I think r157 was being sarcastic.

Oh I see that now... I could barely read the grey text.

Smdh

It’s always something.

R159, that is some vitriol. Sort of like Martha from WAOVW on benzedrine.

Bvfdd

from now on their going to be known as The Red Tag Gurls.

sorry ** they're**

I like it, it reminds me of history and how far we’ve come. It’s not necessary and can be used or abused at will, but it doesn’t bother me like it does some

It bothers me that some don’t respect others enough not to call them out of their gender. If you are okay with it for yourself, fine. But respect the great majority who do not enough not to cross that boundary

"The great majority" lol. Read this thread

Do some of you not know where you are posting or for how long this has been a (predominantly) gay gossip site? Cuz GURL I am confused by some of these comments.

And if you think I'd walk up to a total stranger or some senior executive male at my workplace (gay or straight) and say "hey gurl" or even "dude" - you're nuts. There's obviously a time and a place....and apparently the attached thread was one place. I think Adam is called "she" more than he - by far. And where are the pronoun police?

This whole thread is very bizarre. Some of you sound worse than trannies and their "misgendering" hysteria.

I didn't even know some gay guys didn't like gurl before reading this thread.

The "masc discrete (sic)" ones, r172..

R172, what? Do you only hang with stereotypical and fem guys? are you joking?

"They're not your words to use."

Honey, nobody owns words. That's the beauty part.

It’s moreso another divide between mainstream masculine bi/gay males and fem/gay culture gays, than it is a generational thing.

R174 Most of my gay friends are fem, but I say it to my less flamboyant gay friends too, and they use it sometimes. I also use it with my closer straight male friends and none of them seem to mind.

R177, you hang around a certain set of guys that are not quite indicativeof the mainstream and many bi/gay men who think of themselves as masculine. There is nothing wrong with that, but it’s important to realize it’s a distinct subculture.

Important? Really? "Butch" gays who think things like this are important are extremely boring people.

“Butch?”

Yes. That's a gay man who thinks he's masculine. The kind that goes, "SUCK that dick. TAKE that cock." That kind of bullshit.

As RuPaul says - and others have said years before him, "It's all drag, honey."

I think some gay guys dont like this, i mean drag queens are a trend right now, but they dont represent the "whole" gay community.

R176 I find it interesting you only included bi males in the first group, are there no bi guys who are also fem and into gay culture?

A few, but I think it’s a minority of bi guys, which includes a lot of guys who live a very mainstream life apart from gay culture.

R184 Are they closeted/mostly into women?

Many I know or encounter are open about their attractions to or messing around with guys. They just eschew the notion that being gay or bi has any effect or significance to them beyond their dating or sex life. It’s the “I’m a regular dude who just happens to like guys” mantra. They are guys who assert they naturally are not into gay culture or stereotypes. While they overlap with masc4masc, homothugs, and brosexuals, they aren’t the same.

"How strange it is, to be anything at all."-Lewis Carroll

HUh?