Treasons of Love (The Mueller Investigation Part 10)

Link to previous thread:

Cheeto, the accidental environmentalist!

Kyle GriffinVerified account @kylegriffin1

Shark charities have been flooded with donations after it was revealed in Stormy Daniels' interview that Trump said he hopes sharks die, MarketWatch reports.

One year ago today that Flynn lied to FBI.

Let's Celebrate!

Watch now the lawyers walk him back. Tye Cobb apparently said "under his lawyers' guidance".

Josh DawseyVerified account @jdawsey1

"He should treat Mueller like a plague," said Trump friend Chris Ruddy. "He should assert executive privilege in every opportunity they can... It's about anything and everything they can find. This is moving rapidly, extremely fast."

Best paragraph from this story:

"People who have appeared before Mueller’s team say prosecutors have detailed accounts of events, sometimes to the minute, and have surprised witnesses by showing them emails or documents they were unaware that the team had or that their colleagues had written. One person said Mueller’s team has asked about Trump’s private comments around key events and how he explained decisions."

Ty Cobb, the White House lawyer leading the response to the investigation, said Mr. Trump was speaking hurriedly and intended only to say that he was willing to meet. “He’s ready to meet with them, but he’ll be guided by the advice of his personal counsel,” Mr. Cobb said. He said the arrangements were being worked out between Mr. Mueller’s team and the president’s personal lawyers.

Mr. Cobb said the president was not trying to volunteer to testify before a grand jury, which is how prosecutors speak to witnesses under oath, but was merely speaking off the cuff. Interviews with agents and prosecutors are not conducted under oath, but lying to the F.B.I. is a felony.

Seth Abramson:

When will Nunes be charged with obstruction?

Trump doesn't remember if he asked McCabe who he voted for. He also said that it isn't a a big deal question. Translation - he did ask him.

Schiff on msnbc now saying the two members of congress who've read the underlying materials for Nunes's memo are him and Trey Gowdy.

Also says the Committee, aka the Rethugs, refused to vote in favor of letting the whole committee read these documents.

^^ "him" meaning Schiff --and Gowdy.

The memo was probably rife with grammatical errors, and misspellings. I wouldn't be surprised if it was fucking written in crayon! How I wish Cheetolini would have a cardiac event or a stroke...His army of dumb, blind followers would just see him as a fucking martyr. The deplorables always love their emperor's new clothes...

Exclusive: The full 'secret society' text between FBI agents: Was it meant in jest?

For the past 24 hours, a number of Republican lawmakers have been suggesting that a months-old text message between two FBI officials reveals a "secret society" of federal law enforcement officials clandestinely plotting against President Donald Trump.

Lawmakers have refused to publicly release the full text message, sent the day after Trump won the 2016 presidential election. But ABC News has obtained a copy of the one message that Republicans appear to be citing, and it's unclear if the message's reference to a “secret society” may have been made in jest.

"Are you even going to give out your calendars? Seems kind of depressing. Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society," FBI lawyer Lisa Page wrote to senior FBI agent Peter Strzok, who was working on the FBI’s probe of Russian meddling in the presidential election and would later join Page for a brief period on Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team.

That text stands alone in the series of messages obtained by ABC News – with no apparent tie to other messages sent before or after it.

In another text message obtained by ABC News, sent the day after the presidential election in November 2016, Strzok told Page: "Omg I am so depressed."

Those texts are among a large cache of messages handed over to House and Senate committees in the past two months. After recent news accounts reported that Strzok was axed from Mueller's team for sending potentially anti-Trump messages, lawmakers demanded to see the messages for themselves.

On Friday, the Justice Department handed the Senate Homeland Security Committee and other committees a new batch of more than 1,000 messages sent between Strzok and Page. The messages newly obtained by ABC News were in that set.

Asked Wednesday whether he believes there’s a "secret society" inside the FBI to take down the president, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wisc., said, "That's Strzok and Page’s term."

"Everything I take with a grain of salt," he added. "[But] I've heard from an individual that ... there was a group of managers within the FBI that were holding meetings off site."

So "when Strzok and Page had described a secret society, that didn't surprise me because I had corroborating information," Johnson said.

He declined to describe the "whistleblower" in any way, and he said he did not know what the FBI's "off-site" meetings might have entailed.

Nevertheless, he said he is "trying to be as transparent as possible."

... The Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr, R-North Carolina, said he believes the Justice Department’s explanation and described the FBI as being cooperative in providing documents to his committee for its investigation looking at Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

The ranking Democrats on the House Judiciary and Oversight Committees are calling on the DOJ Inspector General to investigate attempts to weaken the FBI’s independence and discredit career investigators.

On Maddow!

Trump's lawyers filed something in court today and they filed the wrong attachment. It's now public record, and she says it seems like part of their case notes.

^ Hopefully is bona fide and not like the Trump tax return she got from sources unknown when Trump.

R15....It was MANAFORTs lawyer.....and it was case notes.

....

Miss Jill Wine-Banks is on The Last Word tonight wearing a Last Word logo lapel pin.

That’s a good read, r17.

I hope the oopsie from Manafort's lawyers isn't a cheap attempt to get a mistrial.

I also hate that I think like this now....But thanks R17, that looks like a fantastic story.

Where's the speculation that the Mueller's team will be calling in Pence?

Can a "mistrial" be declared before the actual trial has started?

Won’t he be interviewing members of congress? At least the ones that appeared to commit treason out in broad day light?

Someone earlier asked who would investigate Stormy Davis' payoff. It is believed that the money came from the campaign. The campaign transferred $130k to the Trump Organization at about the same time as the payoff. John Edwards was prosecuted for almost the exact same thing - but found not guilty. Since this was part of the campaign, Sessions would be recused as he has recused from anything campaign related. Seems it would fall to Mueller as evidence of blackmail that Russia could use on Trump. It will come out.

Glenn Salig, PR guy for Rick Gates who was indicted by Mueller, was killed in a terrorist attack at a Kabul hotel.

The best quote from the NYT article about the interview comes in the last paragraph:

[quote] “The fact is, you people won’t say this, but I’ll say it: I was a much better candidate than her,” the president went on, referring to Mrs. Clinton. “You always say she was a bad candidate; you never say I was a good candidate. I was one of the greatest candidates.”

What a miserable, pathetic man.

Treasons of Love?! Still no Treason of the Bitch?!

Paul Ryan is responsible for Devin Nunes' actions. He appointed Nunes to the House Intelligence Committee and can remove him at any point.

From the last thread:

[quote]For Treasons Which Are Well Known To Them

We MUST use this one next. It's everything one could want in one DL thread title.

[quote]"Are you even going to give out your calendars? Seems kind of depressing. Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society," FBI lawyer Lisa Page wrote to senior FBI agent Peter Strzok.

This is what the Republicans used to fuel an entire weeks' worth of sound and fury? This is what impelled Republican Senators and Representatives before reporters to warn the American public of the existence of a sinister shadow organization within the FBI?

I knew they had no shame, but I honestly didn't believe they were this jaw-droppingly stupid.

[quote]Treason of the Bitch?!

That should be saved for win Ivanka gets indicted or when Melania turns on Dump!

Morning Joke replayed Rep. Schiff from last night. He said Nunes hasn't even read the documents he alleges show conspiracy in that memo. Only Schiff and vampire Gowdy have read them. And the Intelligence rethugs didn't either, by their own choice they voted against. Treasonous bitches

Secret Society = Obstruction from Wisconsin

YOu know what's more than ironic? As usual the GOP is projecting again. Because there are definitely secret groups that meet regularly on the GOP's side. When the fuck is some investigative reporter going to expose that shit? There is definitely a secret group of conspirators. But they ain't FBI.

It is so obvious that the GOP is terrified and throwing all the bullshit they can at the wall - hoping something, anything will stick! It is pathetic.

I agree and while some are dismissing this as party over country, I think a lot of this behavior and the false charges and the active attempts to undermine and discredit the FBI and federal law enforcement in general as well as the CIA and other Intel services goes way beyond partisan politics. This is bigger. IMO there is obstruction of justice and Treason charges as well as illegal money that needs to be looked at. One thing is sure. By doing this, Nunes and the others are out in the open. They're exposing the Kompromat.

Ron Johnson is without question the fucking stupidest dumbfuck currently in the Senate. (Nearest competition: Grassley). He more properly belongs in the House with the Louis Gohmerts and the Steve Kings.

The Malignant Narcissist had one idee fixe at that presser. HRC wasn't "under oath" (she, in fact, didn't need to be), but he was going to be better than her, so he vowed to testified under oat, without a clue as to what that entailed. He is awesomely self-destructive.

Treason of the Witch is saved for Ivanka. Treasons in the Son is for the sons!

I love this talk (and outrage) over Secret Society's in the FBI that the Rethugs are trying to spread.

Hm... maybe their projecting?

Like I don't know, could a group of alleged NY FBI agents who passed info along to Ghoulliani about how they were pressuring Comey to make that statement re: Re-examining emails... could THEY be considered a Secret Society?

A pair of groups supporting President Trump say they raised $30 million last year, then spent tens of thousands of those dollars at the Trump International Hotel here and on payments to a few Trump loyalists like the former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski and the former Milwaukee County sheriff David A. Clarke Jr., according to new campaign finance reports and news reports.

Of the millions raised, at least $1 million came from a coal company that has gained extraordinary access to the Trump administration to push for pro-coal policy changes.

Kyle GriffinVerified account @kylegriffin1

Wisconsin Republicans have voted to remove the state’s top election and ethics officials, despite looming elections, HuffPost reports. A watchdog group called it “one of the most grotesque abuses of power that has occurred in Wisconsin in its history.”

Byron Tau‏Verified account @ByronTau

Chuck Grassley says he will release the transcripts of all the witnesses the Judiciary Committee interviewed about the June 9, 2016 Trump Tower meeting.

He also says that the committee's chances to get a voluntary interview with Jared Kushner "have been shot" since he already testified in front of Senate Intel.

The Repugs learned from the best; Trump is the biggest mother fucking projector in the history of the World.

Maybe even the Universe...

[quote]Kyle GriffinVerified account @kylegriffin1

[quote]Wisconsin Republicans have voted to remove the state’s top election and ethics officials, despite looming elections, HuffPost reports. A watchdog group called it “one of the most grotesque abuses of power that has occurred in Wisconsin in its history.”

Are you kidding me? Someone in the last thread said it was as if the Wisconsin Republicans were holding up a giant sign that read, "Election Rigged Here". I thought that was funny, but didn’t really believe it. But now? Well.....

Rachel Maddow reports on a letter from Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd ( a former Sessions Senate Staffer) to Rep. Devin Nunes, cautioning him that whatever political stunt he is trying to pull with classified material, he risks endangering national security in doing so.

It's amazing to me how these fuckers are attempting to use procedural rules to violate the law and compromise our national security all in service to a foreign power and no one is attempting to stop them. WTF can we do? There must be some remedy like an injunction or suspending Nunes or something. And don't tell me Ryan is responsible to discipline NUnes. Because someone needs to discipline Ryan. Cam the fucking House Dems insist on a fucking floor fight to censure and remove NUnes? I bet they'd get support from some House GOP members. They don't need that many do they?

R46 Wisconsin has become Ground Zero for every form of corruption.

R31 I agree that was the best title of all those suggested at the end of the last thread.

I must say I am LIVING for these titles.

Rumors floating in DC that Ryan will be retiring in November.

Hmmm.

Kind of like the "rumors" that Tillerson wound be leaving State Department in January 2018, R52?

He's got less than a week to tender his resignation.

[quote]Rumors floating in DC that Ryan will be retiring in November.

He already got his $500,000 paycheck so of course he will.

I somehow missed that Drumpf told Stormy Daniels she reminded him of Ivanka... and then fucked her? JFC.

I believe it was B then A, R55. Still. Yeeeeesh.

Oh, R56, so was it her pussy that reminded him of Ivanka's?

Kevin Mccarthy is irremedially stupid. He's next in line for Speaker for the GOP. He's also BFFs with Trump. So we really really really need to take back the House. As I think about it, you know, we Americans are really gullible people. I think that it's Trump's outrageous lack of civility and his resistance to do anything "normal" Presidents do that helps dig his political grave. He offers no condolences and offers no sense of outrage at mass shootings. He doesn't console people beset by tragedy. He is really useless when it comes to national disasters and even used the hurricane to trach Puerto Rico's economy .. He shows himself to be vile at every opportunity. But I wonder if the reactions would be more muted and conciliatory towards him if he had a different style?Because I worry that we're going to get someone who will have a different style but they will be the same as him in substance one day, and we will not be ready to resist them.

[quote]I think that it's Trump's outrageous lack of civility and his resistance to do anything "normal" Presidents do that helps dig his political grave. He offers no condolences and offers no sense of outrage at mass shootings. He doesn't console people beset by tragedy. He is really useless when it comes to national disasters and even used the hurricane to trach Puerto Rico's economy .. He shows himself to be vile at every opportunity. But I wonder if the reactions would be more muted and conciliatory towards him if he had a different style?

Good overview of the horror, and I've often had the same thought. What if the same 'policies' were presented by someone with enough maturity, humanity, sanity, and a plausible back story. Said person would still be opposed in full and widely disliked; but recognised perhaps as someone part of the process to be fought hard, who otherwise might just be a tolerable national figurehead.

But with Trump, the style is the man is the policy. Freakish sleaziness blends with charmless ineptitude and stupidity to pollute every initiative he attempts. Any trust and goodwill an unusual new President might have enjoyed was exploded pretty much from the start, simply because of who Trump is. He would see conciliation as weakness - anything short of rally hysteria is useless to him. He's earned very ounce of detestation in full. No good can come from a bad man.

Is it just me, or does Stormy Daniels look more like Marla Maples than any of the other Trump whores?

I didn't like this thread title (love the Crawford reference one!) until it made me start singing "Prisoners of Love" from The Producers.

Treason of the Snitch - I still think Jared Kushner will be the one to bring Trump down to save himself.

Expert trolling by the Guggenheim!

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

The W.H. asked the Guggenheim to “borrow” a Van Gogh painting for Trump’s private living quarters.

The curator denied the request, offering instead an 18-karat, fully functioning, solid gold toilet — an interactive work entitled “America,” WaPo reports.

I just realized the GOP nuttery went into batshit overdrive after the report about the NRA working with the Russians came out. That could touch literally every GOP member of Congress. (And, to be fair, some Democrats).

New story about the Dutch alerting us to hacking.

Thank you R64! This confirms once again that the FBI Counter Intel probe of Trump et al, is much bigger than those little imbeciles like Devin Nunes can fathom. The entire international Intel community are watching our backs, and Nunes can write all the secret memos he & his co-conspirators want to write, but at the end of the day there is so much incriminating evidence , they won't know whether to shit or go blind as Granny used to say. (The origins of that saying are a source of enduring curiosity to me.)

I hope your granny is prescient, R65!

Right-wing media are all saying that Trump testifying to Mueller would surely be a “perjury trap.” So they all recognize that Trump can’t tell the truth? That’s all pretty funny.

NBC News has set up a site for the Russia investigation.

No, R67, they're saying that the conspiracy will trick innocent naive Donny into saying or confirming things which are perjury, because Donny is at the mercy of the bad bad "deep state".

You see, Donny always tells the truth but the deep state is so evil and will trick even the most truthful person to perjury.

Republican voters really do believe the Deep State is attempting a coup against the most beloved, smartest, best President we've ever had. I don't understand why Fox News and Murdoch aren't being investigated. Hannity is in with Assange and Wikileaks and the whole network is just pushing Russian propaganda. This country will never change while Fox is allowed to exist.

About the secret society and calendars message. It was all black humor.

The New York Times first reported that the “calendars,” which the Times said had a “Russia theme,” were a gag gift for those working on the early Russia probe.

It’s unclear precisely which Putin calendar Strzok bought for the team or whether it was from 2016 or 2017. A 2016 calendar featured photos of the Russian president in camouflage, lighting a candle for Christmas, standing next to a horse, smelling a flower, working out in a gym, hugging a dog and fishing without a shirt. A 2017 calendar, per a CNN report, was available by mid-October 2016 at kiosks around Moscow.

What’s remarkable about the “secret society” text message is that it has been available to reporters for more than a month, as it was included in a first set of texts that the Justice Department sent to Capitol Hill (and allowed reporters to view) in December. But it wasn’t picked up, even by Fox News (which had access to the texts), because it seemed like such an obvious joke.

Mueller Wasn’t Interested in Bannon Until ‘Fire and Fury,’ Source Says

Donald Trump’s ex-campaign chairman and White House strategist painted a bullseye on himself after he blabbed to Michael Wolff about the Russia probe.

Melania flew off to Florida today. One knows she is pissed, and refused to fly to Switzerland with him.

Watch, there may a complete separation and she may no longer appear with him anywhere. She may not show for the Sate of the Union address.

Well, she was in the process of leaving him before he decided to run. Then she agreed to stick around for the campaign, and now she's First Lady. Well, today melania went to the Holocaust Museum and posted a couple of pictures, then she issued a statement fro the Office of the First Lady a lovely statement really , commemorating the anniversary of the Holocaust observance. So my guess is she is going t be a fucking First Lady and fuck him and his bloated ass. She will lead a completely separate life and leave him to his own devices. She will do her thing. And if he tries for one second to stupidly get Ivanka to accompany hi to state dinners because Melly has refused, then Melly will blow him up. I hope she calls Mueller.. Bet she could tell a story. Better ask for the Witness Protection program first.

[quote]She will lead a completely separate life and leave him to his own devices.

This is fine for 5 min of gossip but I don't have any use for her unless she has tapes or documents and goes to Muller or the press.

Without that, she is another filthy rich future ex trophy wife. She knew who she was marrying. She'll be more than fine and her public pr private distress doesn't concern me at all. She stood by him.

I wonder if Melania told Trump, change my contract or I run straight to Mueller

Melania could never go to Mueller. She ight fear for her life or for the safety of her parents and Barron. The Russian mob doesn't play.

Of course she won't go to Mueller or talk. She wants her divorce settlement and has probably had to sign 1001 NDAs. All she wants is coddle Barron, be a lady who lunches, and fuck some pool boys or ski instructors. She's set so I couldn't care less about her.

This may well be the lamest non-denial I've ever seen, and it took them over five days to craft it.

[quote]A lawyer representing the NRA has responded to a McClatchy report that the FBI was investigating whether a Russian banker illegally funneled money to the group in an effort to boost Donald Trump in 2016.

[quote]“We have not been contacted by the FBI about anything related to Russia,” Steven Hart, an outside lawyer for the NRA, told McClatchy in a statement posted Tuesday evening as an update to McClatchy’s original story, which appeared January 18.

I think it's all a ruse... it's to show the deplorables Trump got his "punishment" from Melania for the Stormy revelation, and when they show up together again, the narration will be Mel has forgiven Trump so should the public. Storm over. Nothing to see here.

Yeah, that will go well with the Deplorables. Of course, they were all up in self-righteous indignation at Hillary for staying with Bill, and cheered when Dumpf brought those women to a debate.

Wasn't Stormy invited to the SOTU or some such by someone on the left? That'll be a first, an acting Potus's porn star in attendance.

[quote] be a lady who lunches, and fuck some pool boys or ski instructors.

You forgot to include us. Don't think we're not getting some.

Either invite Stormy to the SOTU or all the members of the Democratic Party, attending the SOTU, being dressed up as her, or hold up pictures of her facing Trump.

Don't waste an ounce of wishing thinking on Mel, she is 100% complicit in all his crimes just by standing there and act like he's a decent human being.

The minute AF-1 was wheels up Melania had her secretary call Pilot to start up the jet because she's going to Mar-a-lago to empty her southern jewelry vault and pick up the remaining valuable baubles, trinkets, tchotchkes and furs.

So the taxpayers have to foot two separate flights?

R86 The Trumps have no concept of saving taxpayer money.

"texts truthers" is now a thing

Perhaps County Clerk Kim Davis will receive another guest invitation from Congressman Jim Jordan for the State of the Union address.

That will reinforce marital fidelity.

Breaking: TRUMP ATTEMPTED TO FIRE MUELLER IN JUNE OF 2017!

It never ends.

R90, excellent news.

So the tradition of blockbuster news breaking while Cheeto is on a foreign trip holds. More, more, more!

Post it. It's behind the paywall.

Or give us the high lights.

R94 open the link in an incognito window.

Would this be considered an attempt to obstruct justice? Not that it matters, because it’s only that if he had fired him, but it does show a pattern. It also shows he has been bullshitting his base and the rest of America by claiming that the investigation isn’t problematic, since he committed no crimes.

President Trump attempted to fire special counsel Robert Mueller last summer but was stopped after White House counsel Don McGahn threatened to resign, according to a new report.

The New York Times reports Trump ordered Mueller to be fired in June, according to four people with knowledge of the matter.

Trump reportedly said Mueller had conflicts of interest in his investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 election, including a dispute over fees at Trump’s National Golf Club in Virginia and Mueller’s previous employment at a law firm that represent Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner, according to the Times.

Mueller recently found out about Trump’s attempt to have him fired, according to the Times, as his team has begun interviewing top current and former Trump officials.

This is a Bannon leak? A warning shot to Cheeto?

Holy shit. The past few days have shown there are a whole lot of people who are fucking DONE with Trump and his games.

[quote]This is a Bannon leak?

Or McGahn?

For the n-th time, I had a perfectly good show prepared, people!

Poor Rachel. Lol!

Lawdy, Twitler will be tweeting big-time from Davos.

Morning Joe will be entertaining.

Rachel also suspects Don McGahn.

Suspects him of what? I’m glad we have leakers.

More evidence of obstruction of justice. The list grows.

DJT is the leaked himself!

R94 that does not work for those of us who have used up our allotted free non-subscriber issues per month; the papers don't buy the anonymous google search. Would someone please copy and paste NYT and WAPO text here? Much gratitude for your generous efforts!

1.

WASHINGTON — President Trump ordered the firing last June of Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel overseeing the Russia investigation, according to four people told of the matter, but ultimately backed down after the White House counsel threatened to resign rather than carry out the directive.

The West Wing confrontation marks the first time Mr. Trump is known to have tried to fire the special counsel. Mr. Mueller learned about the episode in recent months as his investigators interviewed current and former senior White House officials in his inquiry into whether the president obstructed justice.

Amid the first wave of news media reports that Mr. Mueller was examining a possible obstruction case, the president began to argue that Mr. Mueller had three conflicts of interest that disqualified him from overseeing the investigation, two of the people said.

First, he claimed that a dispute years ago over fees at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Va., had prompted Mr. Mueller, the F.B.I. director at the time, to resign his membership. The president also said Mr. Mueller could not be impartial because he had most recently worked for the law firm that previously represented the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Finally, the president said, Mr. Mueller had been interviewed to return as the F.B.I. director the day before he was appointed special counsel in May.

After receiving the president’s order to fire Mr. Mueller, the White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, refused to ask the Justice Department to dismiss the special counsel, saying he would quit instead, the people said. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to be identified discussing a continuing investigation.

Open it in a private browsing window, R109. It resets your paywall limit.

2.

Mr. McGahn disagreed with the president’s case and told senior White House officials that firing Mr. Mueller would have a catastrophic effect on Mr. Trump’s presidency. Mr. McGahn also told White House officials that Mr. Trump would not follow through on the dismissal on his own. The president then backed off.

Ty Cobb, who manages the White House’s relationship with Mr. Mueller’s office, said in a statement, “We decline to comment out of respect for the Office of the Special Counsel and its process.”

Mr. McGahn, a longtime Republican campaign finance lawyer in Washington who served on the Federal Election Commission, was the top lawyer on Mr. Trump’s campaign. He has been involved in nearly every key decision Mr. Trump has made — like the firing of the former F.B.I. director — that is being scrutinized by Mr. Mueller.

Mr. McGahn was also concerned that firing the special counsel would incite more questions about whether the White House was trying to obstruct the Russia investigation.

Around the time Mr. Trump wanted to fire Mr. Mueller, the president’s legal team, led then by his longtime personal lawyer in New York, Marc E. Kasowitz, was taking an adversarial approach to the Russia investigation. The president’s lawyers were digging into potential conflict-of-interest issues for Mr. Mueller and his team, according to current and former White House officials, and news media reports revealed that several of Mr. Mueller’s prosecutors had donated to Democrats.

Mr. Mueller could not legally have considered political affiliations when making hiring decisions. But for Mr. Trump’s supporters, it reinforced the idea that, although Mr. Mueller is a Republican, he had assembled a team of Democrats to take down the president.

3.

Another option that Mr. Trump considered in discussions with his advisers was dismissing the deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, and elevating the department’s No. 3 official, Rachel Brand, to oversee Mr. Mueller. Mr. Rosenstein has overseen the investigation since March, when Attorney General Jeff Sessions recused himself.

Mr. Trump has significantly ratcheted back his criticisms of Mr. Mueller since he hired Mr. Cobb for his legal team in July. A veteran of several high-profile Washington controversies, Mr. Cobb has known Mr. Mueller for decades, dating to their early careers in the Justice Department.

He advised Mr. Trump that he had nothing to gain from combat with Mr. Mueller, a highly respected former prosecutor and F.B.I. director who has subpoena power as special counsel. Since Mr. Cobb’s arrival, the White House has operated on the premise that the quickest way to clear the cloud of suspicion was to cooperate with Mr. Mueller, not to fight him.

Nonetheless, Mr. Trump has wavered for months about whether he wants to fire Mr. Mueller, whose job security is an omnipresent concern among the president’s legal team and close aides. The president’s lawyers, including Mr. Cobb, have tried to keep Mr. Trump calm by assuring him for months, amid new revelations about the inquiry, that it is close to ending.

4.

Mr. Trump has long demonstrated a preoccupation with those who have overseen the Russia investigation. In March, after Mr. McGahn failed to persuade Attorney General Jeff Sessions not to recuse himself from the inquiry, Mr. Trump complained that he needed someone loyal to oversee the Justice Department.

The former F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, said Mr. Trump asked him for loyalty and encouraged him to drop an investigation into his former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn. Mr. Comey said he sidestepped those requests. He was soon fired.

In an interview with The New York Times in the Oval Office in July, the president pointedly kept open the option of firing Mr. Mueller, saying that the special counsel would be passing a red line if his investigation expanded to look at Mr. Trump’s finances. Mr. Trump said he never would have made Mr. Sessions the attorney general if he had known he would recuse himself from the investigation.

Last month, as Republicans were increasing their attacks on the special counsel, Mr. Trump said in an interview with The Times that he believed Mr. Mueller was going to treat him fairly.

“No, it doesn’t bother me because I hope that he’s going to be fair,” Mr. Trump said in response to a question about whether it bothered him that Mr. Mueller had not yet ended his investigation. “I think that he’s going to be fair.”

Mr. Trump added: “There’s been no collusion. But I think he’s going to be fair.”

OK. If I may, since we are entering that phase of the investigation,I got a digital subscription to the Washington Post and it was worth every dime. It was $99. A Year. Do it. put it on your credit card. You will not be sorry.

Washington Post

1.

President Trump sought the firing of Robert S. Mueller III last June, shortly after the special counsel took over the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, and he backed off only after White House Counsel Donald F. McGahn threatened to resign over the move.

The extraordinary showdown was confirmed by two people familiar with the episode, which was first reported by the New York Times.

McGahn did not deliver his resignation threat directly to Trump, but was serious about his threat to leave, according to a person familiar with the episode.

The president’s effort came in the weeks after Mueller’s appointment last May to lead the probe into Trump’s campaign and whether it coordinated with Russian attempts to tilt the election. Mueller was tapped for the role by Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein after Trump fired FBI Director James B. Comey, and his probe has quickly expanded to include an exploration of whether Trump has attempted to obstruct the ongoing investigation.

The incident could now become part of Mueller’s examination of whether Trump has taken steps to try to stymie the investigation.

2.

Peter Carr, a spokesman for the special counsel’s office, declined to comment. McGahn did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

A White House spokesman referred questions to Ty Cobb, the attorney coordinating the administration’s response to the Russia investigations, who did not immediately respond to requests for comment. John Dowd, an attorney for the president, declined to comment.

Sen. Mark R. Warner (Va.,), the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is conducting its own investigation of Russian interference, said in a statement that “firing the Special Counsel is a red line that the President cannot cross. Any attempt to remove the Special Counsel, pardon key witnesses, or otherwise interfere in the investigation, would be a gross abuse of power, and all members of Congress, from both parties, have a responsibility to our Constitution and to our country to make that clear immediately.”

3.

Trump was initially calm when Mueller was appointed, surprising White House aides, according to a senior administration official.

But in the weeks that followed, the president spoke with a number of friends and advisers who convinced him that Mueller would dig through his private finances and look beyond questions of collusion with Russians. They warned that the probe could last years and would ruin his first term in office.

At the time, his legal team was urging him to aggressive action against the special counsel and compiling arguments about why he could not be impartial, raising questions about whether Mueller had gotten into a dispute over membership fees at a Trump-owned golf course in Northern Virginia.

Trump decided to assert that Mueller had unacceptable conflicts of interest and moved to remove him from his position, according to the people familiar with internal conversations.

In response, McGahn said he would not be at the White House if Trump went through with the move, according to a senior administration official.

Since then, Trump brought in a new legal team that has counseled cooperation with Mueller. He has continued to fume about the investigation, even as his lawyers have publicly pledged to work with the special counsel. On Thursday, one of the president’s attorneys distributed a memo outlining the number of voluntary staff interviews and documents they have produced.

Can Trump fire Mueller when they meet? Do you think Trump would do one of those Apprentice style "You're fired!" actions against Mueller?

Well, they probably will be meeting during February sweeps....

Trump can't fire Mueller directly but he can fire people in the Justice Department until he finds one ready to fire Mueller for him.

R111 Thanks very much. I am limited to an iPad and that does not seem to work for me.

R122, as I said above at R94, you can open in an incognito mode. What browser are you using on iPad?

WH the fuck is orchestrating the talking points for the GOP loyalists? Everyone from Rush Limbaugh to Roger Stone they're all talking about the potential Mueller interview as a "perjury trap." The language is so similar for all of them it's as if it were scripted, which I think it was like every other line of rebuttal. I want to know who is feeding them these lines and please don't tell me it's Hope Hicks because that's bullshit. She didn't come up with the secret memo ploy either. It's almost as if Bannon were still around.

R115 R123 thanks for the help. I am so fucking poor that subscribing is a desired luxury I cannot afford. R123 I use Safari. Thanks for trying to help me with access.

R125, use “incognito” with a google browser or private browsing with Firefox.

R124, there’s no such thing as a perjury trap. Either you perjure yourself, or you don’t.

R125 try this:

Here is how to turn on private browsing in iOS:

Open Safari. Tap the Pages icon (shaped as two squares). Tap Private. You will now be in private browsing mode. An alert tells you that Safari won't remember the pages you visit, your search history, or AutoFill information. Tap the Search field to search for a website, or the Add icon to browse from your bookmarks.

When in Private Browsing mode the Menu bar and Smart Search Field in Safari will be a dark grey colour. Tap Pages and Private again to turn off Private Browsing Mode.

R127, there actually is something that's called a "perjury trap" but it's not what Trump's supporters mean:

[quote]But “perjury trap” is a specific legal defense, related to entrapment. A claim of a perjury trap is really a claim of prosecutorial misconduct. It refers to an abuse of the legal process, whereby a prosecutor subpoenas a witness to testify not for a legitimate investigative purpose but to try to catch him in an inconsistency or falsehood — even a relatively minor one — that can then trigger a perjury charge.

And per a definition on uslegal.com:

[quote]Perjury trap doctrine refers to a principle that a perjury indictment against a person must be dismissed if the prosecution secures it by calling that person as a grand-jury witness in an effort to obtain evidence for a perjury charge especially when the person’s testimony does not relate to issues material to the ongoing grand-jury investigation.

Note that neither of these definitions could possibly be used in Trump's defense. Or to describe the situation that Trump would face.

Does private browsing block cookies? is that how it works.

It blocks all identifying information, including cookies.

I recommend watching Lawrence O'Donnell in repeats or on u-tube and podcast. Tonight's panel was hoppin'! And also very informative and with expert opinions.

R128 R131 Thanks so much. I'll give it a try.

Was glamour queen Jill Wine-Banks on again tonight? 😍

Sadly no Jill W-B but they had other experts, Joy, Ari, and David K Johnson

Thanks to the person who posted the texts of the two articles. It was above and beyond the call.

And thanks r132.

Maybe Trump's rocket scientist lawyers are going to use the "perjury trap" legal defense. LOLOL! David K. Johnson said something chilling tonight. He said what if trump refuses the subpoena and refuses to leave once impeached? He said he could see Trump who believes he is above the law, not answering to anyone and just digging in. I wonder about that. Does the staff evacuate the WH? Does the Secret Service intervene? WTF happens if the POTUS refuses to acknowledge the law? So Mueller completes his investigation, and he presents his findings to Congress. And Congress ignores him? If he is charging the POTUS with a crime, and Ryan refuses to act, Ryan ought to be arrested for obstruction too. I think a few heads need to roll in Congress. They need to have some federal marshals go in there and frog march a couple of those bastards out of the Capitol in handcuffs.

On Brian Williams’ show they also thought McGahn leaked it.

The theory was that McGahn is so desperate to stop Trump, that Trump must have recently brought up the subject of firing Mueller again and this is McGahn’s last ditch attempt to stop him (again). If that’s true, watch for McGahn to go bye-bye.

R132: About to watch O'Donnell now!

This is going to be a bigger story than Trump wanting to fire Mueller, here is some of it translated from Dutch:

[quote]It's the summer of 2014. A hacker from the Dutch intelligence agency AIVD has penetrated the computer network of a university building next to the Red Square in Moscow, oblivious to the implications. One year later, from the AIVD headquarters in Zoetermeer, he and his colleagues witness Russian hackers launching an attack on the Democratic Party in the United States. The AIVD hackers had not infiltrated just any building; they were in the computer network of the infamous Russian hacker group Cozy Bear. And unbeknownst to the Russians, they could see everything.

[quote]That's how the AIVD becomes witness to the Russian hackers harassing and penetrating the leaders of the Democratic Party, transferring thousands of emails and documents. It won't be the last time they alert their American counterparts. And yet, it will be months before the United States realize what this warning means: that with these hacks the Russians have interfered with the American elections. And the AIVD hackers have seen it happening before their very eyes.

[quote]The Dutch access provides crucial evidence of the Russian involvement in the hacking of the Democratic Party, according to six American and Dutch sources who are familiar with the material, but wish to remain anonymous. It's also grounds for the FBI to start an investigation into the influence of the Russian interference on the election race between the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and the Republican candidate Donald Trump.

[quote]'High confidence': After Trump's election in May 2017, this investigation was taken over by special prosecutor Robert Mueller. While it also aims to uncover contacts between Trump's presidential campaign and the Russian government, the prime objective is bringing to light the Russian interference with the elections. An attempt to undermine the democratic process, and an act that caused tensions between the two superpowers to rise to new heights, bringing about a string of diplomatic acts of revenge.

[quote]Three American intelligence services state with 'high confidence' that the Kremlin was behind the attack on the Democratic Party. That certainty, sources say, is derived from the AIVD hackers having had access to the office-like space in the center of Moscow for years. This is so exceptional that the directors of the foremost American intelligence services are all too happy to receive the Dutchmen. They provide technical evidence for the attack on the Democratic Party, and it becomes apparent that they know a lot more. The prime objective is bringing to light the Russian interference with the elections

[quote]'Cozy Bear': Specialists from the best intelligence services have been hunting them for years. It's somewhat of a 'fluke' that the AIVD hackers were able to acquire such useful information in 2014. The team uses a CNA, which stands for Computer Network Attack. These hackers are permitted to perform offensive operations: to penetrate and attack hostile networks. It's a relatively small team within a larger digital business unit of about 80-100 people. All cyberoperations converge here. Part of the unit is focused on intercepting or managing sources, while another team is dedicated to Computer Network Defence. In turn, this team is part of the Joint Sigint Cyber Unit, a collaborative unit of the AIVD and the Dutch Military Intelligence and Security Service MIVD, of about 300 people.

I like AIVD

Here is link to the Dutch article, it is very long but worth the read.

R137 The onus ultimately falls on the GOP to get Trump to go without too much of a scene when his approval ratings eventually plummets as more damning news break. Avoiding an outright confrontation/arrest/impeachment is really in the Party's own interests, so they can save some face and alleviate the blame of foisting this demented fool/criminal on the country. They would much prefer Pence (If he survives this mess) to take over anyway. But if Mueller moves quickly to prosecute from this point on, the GOP will have no time for damage control and they will bear the maximum brunt of their Trump fiasco.

R143: Unfortunately, the CCC (Complicit - Corrupt - Congress) is too stupid (or afraid) to realize this as Nunes and co. continues to spew conspiracy bullshit and Ryan kisses Trump's ass at every chance (although Trump hates him and doesn't respect him at all). Notice how Trump backed down from the lawyer who stood up to him about firing Mueller? That should tell you all you need to know about the fucking bully. Mueller is really going to go after Trump's ass now. Someone said shit is going to hit the fan by March of this year. I think that person is probably psychic!

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If anybody knows and can explain this to me, what happens if Trump pleads the 5th?

But he said that only guilty people take the 5th?!

Our dear president will just shout MAGA! at every question. Take that perjury trapper-disgruntled golfer-deep state Mueller!

The Dutch having tapes of the Russians hacking DNC prove that Trump was a big fat liar with his pants on fire when he said there was no evidence of Russians hacking US. All that, "Putin is my friend and I believe him, Russia is good/Hillary is evil" BS looks especially bad knowing he was informed in early 2017.

This is worth reading

R146 Let's say there is a videotape of you stealing a 5lb bar of gold from a bank. Multiple witnesses identified you in a line up . The bar which has a serial number was found in your possession.

Asserting the 5th Amendment only permits you to not render a response . It does not prevent a jury from deciding with the evidence available if you are in fact guilty of robbery .

"According to the Times, Trump claimed that multiple conflicts of interests disqualified Mueller from overseeing the Russia investigation—including a fee dispute with a Trump golf club"

I wish Mueller would for once make a public statement and respond "I had totally forgotten I ever played golf at your shitty club. After seeing your taxes and discovering how much you're really worth, I understand why you would nickel and dime someone over some fees because you obviously need all the cash you can get."

Oops I backspaced and deleted an entire passage. After the first paragraph should be :

If you were called to the stand you would theoretically avoid answering the following questions:

1) Were you at Random Bank on the day of the robbery ?

2) How do you explain x # of witnesses seeing you leave Random Bank with a bar of gold?

3) Do you reside at 123 House St. , Bristol VA 24201 ?

4) Was this bar of gold with the following serial # found at your house ?

Jeanine Pirro and Sean Hannity probably have been on the phone to DJT in Davos.

Miss Lindsey golfed for free.

Yeah, the best / worst is yet to come. I am this close to go full on crazy and stock up on water, food, and supplies and barricade myself in the middle of nowhere until Trump / GOP no longer can start a war or fake a terrorist attack in order to start a war as a distraction.

This is a terrifying time to live in. We’re so close to exposing this fat criminal and his disgusting family, but also close to all out war.

I feel like the IC and the media are dripping things out to keep everything from just exploding because the truth is horrifyingly obvious. Putin used Trump as a foil and worked with traitors within his campaign, Congress, and Giuliani's FBI to hack and steal the election because the thought of Hillary as President terrified him.

Trump will go down as the most heinous traitor in American history, worse than Benedict Arnold, Robert E Lee, and Nixon. He will finally be the best at something in his pathetic life. This was posted on DL months ago by someone supposedly in the loop, and it still gives me hope that justice will prevail.

[quote] He will die in jail.

I think the reason this stuff is leaking out, including the involvement of the Dutch and other members of the Intel community, is because they are signaling Trump, his traitors in Congress, and the American people that there is a whole international network of agencies who cooperate and share and spy together and the information is out here and cannot be suppressed. Their lack of knowledge about how government works and what it takes to keep this country safe is simply breathtaking. For example did Jared really think asking the Russian Ambassador for a "safe room" at the Russian Embassy to establish a "back channel" to Moscow was not going to come out? You could dismiss that as amateur, except he knew communicating with Russia in that way was wrong, that's why he wanted to hide it. Trump and his family will resist and his first impulse will be to lie, deny, deflect and resist but at some point he will realize it's over and he will face full exposure. His entire business empire will crumble. His kids may pressure him to cut his losses and resign. Then he'll make a deal and all those treasonous pieces of shit in Congress will be left holding the bag.

Morning Joe just showed a(n) hilarious montage of Hannity from last night. First he denies that Trump ordering the firing of Mueller ever happened, then he sheepishly admits that it did, then he cuts to car crash video. Hysterical!

LOL, Hannity has to get his instructions on how to spin this from the WH first.

Here's the Hannity clip. It's hysterical.

[quote]The Dutch having tapes of the Russians hacking DNC prove that Trump was a big fat liar with his pants on fire when he said there was no evidence of Russians hacking US.

Rick Wilson yesterday, following up a tweet about the Dutch intelligence reveal:

"I can tell you with absolute confidence that another, skilled European intel agency has Team Trump nervous."

R155. I hear you. I have a constant niggling suspicion that the best thing to do would be to cash out my 401k immediately and use it to stock up on cigarettes and gold coins for trade and barter after the inevitable financial and/or literal apocalypse that I feel is looming.

[quote]Trump was a big fat liar with his pants on fire

Perfect. It's quite astonishing that the grown-up circling wagons are now visible in the middle distance - while 'POTUS' will revel in grandstanding as the biggest swinging dick in the room at Davos.

(This reminds me of when Margaret Thatcher was throwing her weight about at a European summit, while at home in the UK she didn't win enough leadership votes to sustain the confidence of her party. Gathering storm. Beginning of the end.)

On the plus side (I think) the buzz Trump'll get from Davos will lead to some unfounded overconfidence, like the upswing of a manic-depressive. So he'll overreach again, leave himself open to more justified ridicule and contempt, as those wagons edge closer.

President Donald Trump on Friday dismissed as “fake news” a New York Times report that he ordered the firing of special counsel Robert Mueller last June, but backed down after White House lawyer Don McGahn threatened to resign.

Trump pushed back against the report, without addressing the specific allegation, as he arrived Friday at the site of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

“Fake news, folks. Fake news. Typical New York Times fake stories,” Trump told reporters.

Wow, he called it fake news? Didn't see that coming!

I imagine Trump will declare war on the Dutch for spying and spreading Fake News.

It's not just the Dutch as you know. It's all of them who are our allies, who are members of NATO, etc. Russia hates and wants to disband NATO, remember that fiasco when Trump first took office? I'm figuring all the Dems will vote to impeach and all we need is 24 Republicans to join them to get a majority. The GOP has more than 200 House members.

I do believe these leaks are deliberate, because for the Dutch to admit they hacked into Russian Intel operations is a major admission. They are telling on themselves so they have to be doing this as part of an effort to help us break up this Trump Russia mess. The last thing the world needs is a weakened USA acting as a client state to RUssia. Russia's government is essentially a criminal enterprise and they ought to be classified as a rogue nation.

[quote]testified under oat

Pics please.

Yeah, I believe some countries are drawing a line and saying beforehand that they have no intention to get dragged into some stupid distraction, like a war, by Trum (or Putin).

Sorry, Trump (or Putin).

I have to wonder if our CIA and Intel people at the DIA and the NIA and the NSA a re holding back important information from Trump and all the people he wants to get his Daily Briefings. I would I'd bet there's an understanding among the working members of those agencies not to "overshare" with even their own Cabinet secretaries. Except for Mattis and McMasters, I trust none of them.

[quote] If anybody knows and can explain this to me, what happens if Trump pleads the 5th

It is a question by question process. He has to assert his Fifth for each question he believes he has a right to refuse to answer because a truthful answer may incriminate him in a criminal offense. He can get up and leave the room and consult with his attorney sitting outside as many times as he wants.

If the government does not believe he has a Fifth Amend. right to refuse to answer some or all of the questions he asserted to, then they file a Motion to Show Cause why he shouldn't be held in contempt for refusing to answer. It then goes to whatever federal judge is overseeing this grand jury and there is a closed hearing under seal.

Remember this would all be under seal. We can't see or even know of such motions or hearings officially. It wouldbe a serious breach for those bound by the GJ secrecy to violate it. But as always witnesses are not bound by secrecy so Trump and his peeps can discuss it all they want.

At the hearing Trump's lawyer explains to the court ex parte (usually at the bench with a husher on so the government cannot hear with Trump either at e bench with his lawyer or back at the table with headphones on so he can hear the exchange). Everyone will have a sealed transcript they have reviewed - some questions will be obvious (like if he refuses to give his name or his address) and others will need an explanation. The judge will ask point blank if a truthful answer to this and that question may implicate him in a crime. If the judge agrees that it may (not the likelihood it will be charges just the possibility it could) then the Fifth stands. If the judge finds that he "over asserted" and he can answer some questions or all of them then the judge orders Trump back into the grand jury to answer the questions he has ruled are not protected by the Fifth.

If Trump refuses to obey the first court he can be held in contempt and jailed until he obeys. If the government wants answers to questions Trump has properly refused to answer by properly asserting his Fifth and that he was not ordered to answer, then they can go to a federal judge and get statutory immunity for him and a federal judge can order him to answer the questions under a grant of immunity - that means he can answer and none of his answers can later be used against him.

That's how a grand jury works but there may be some provisions governing the special prosecutor statute I am clueless about.

Wow r173, thanks!

Forgot to add: Asserting your Fifth does NOT mean you are guilty of anything. It just means that a truthful answer can in someway link you to a crime. If you drove your neighbor to the scene of a crime without kmowledge of any crime then you are not guilty of anything but admitting you did that could easily link you to a crime. If you drive your neighbor to Olive Garden and you sit outside while neighbor supposedly picks up a carry out but instead he robs them, you better assert your Fifth.

That Hannity clip at r161 is hysterical. I love how defeated he is by the end. Asshole.

LOL! Even Hannity is at a loss for words.

Thanks for the explanation. Now a question: Statutory immunity. Does that mean he can't be charged with crimes or only that his answers before the GJ cannot be used against him?

Even crow would be too good for what Hannity should eat for being such a shameless propaganda douche nozzle.

[quote]Now a question: Statutory immunity. Does that mean he can't be charged with crimes or only that his answers before the GJ cannot be used against him?

Last night someone said on msnbc that means he can still be impeached. Immunity from prosecution is about a court trial, I believe, but anyway a criminal trial is a very long shot for a sitting president.

I get that. Impeachment is part of the political process according to our Constitution. And the POTUS can be tried before the Senate for "high crimes and misdemeanors." I just want to know if "a grant of statutory immunity" allows him to walk away or if it is narrowly defined as simply saying the answers he gives in the Grand Jury or to the FBI, can't be used against him.

Because IMO he has done so much, he is such an incredible criminal piece of shit, that firing Comey and the Obstruction charges is the least of his problems. I don't want him to get immunity from prosecution. I want him to plead until his kneecaps bleed and he has no voice, to get a deal and resign. Then the State Attorney General in NY can have him. And he can spend the rest of his life on Rikers Island. Along with his son-in-law and Donnie Jr. I want to see fear in his eyes to replace that arrogant sneer he wears most of the time.

I also have to wonder how much his businesses are suffering. because as this heats up, you have to believe that Eric, Donald, jr. & Ivanka will be watching his house of cards collapse and might urge him to cut a deal to resign.

I have to believe the Koch brothers et al would never let the government get to the point where Donald Trump would cause the economy to collapse. Not for anything altruistic, for sure. They’re all about money and nothing else. They’re ruthless—I can see them “taking care” of the problem before they lose any money in the stock market.

For guys like the Kochs money is power. They have all the money now, they don't care about the regular people suffering during a recession. They can wait out the recession and spend not a single dime to help anyone else, but rule like Kings with government officials doing their bidding.

In a recession you can bet the government will first and foremost help the Kochs, because, you know, tickle down economics!

Why would the Kochs care about losses in a recession? There would be no losses for them.

sorry, trickle-down economics

Well, the Kochs are certainly pulling Paul Ryan's strings. They literally own him. But I'd always heard that the Kochs hated Trump. They certainly hated him during the primaries. of course they find him useful. He has that big outsized personality that appeals to the masses and as long as he can keep distracting people while he "signs anything we put on his desk" then they will keep supporting him. But I have to ask at what point do the Kochs sign on to treason? I somehow thought that might matter to them. Now if Pence were POTUS, the Kochs could still get their way easily enough, and without all the mess Trump brings with him. I mean it's one thing to stoke up the White Supremacy and the Anti Immigration, Anti Muslim sentiment. But Porn stars? Really?

[quote]But I have to ask at what point do the Kochs sign on to treason?

What's a little treason between republicans?

YOU know, I don't think American people, especially those under 45, really fully appreciate the damage and the trouble and the lives the Russians have cost us. They don't understand why Europe hate Russia and so do many other nations. This goes beyond the Cuban Missile Crisis of the 60's. This is about the trouble they've caused in the Middle east and Africa, and developing nations all over the globe. It's no accident that rogue states like Syria and Iran are their allies and clients. It's no secret that they have co-opted and exploited leaders in African countries and traded arms with criminals. In fact the Russian gov't is one big criminal enterprise and they thrive on sowing chaos and destabilizing governments all over the world. they are really evil people. I think the media assumes people understand what Russia is about but they need to be reminded. Repeatedly. When Trump and his allies spout this crap about "what's wrong with wanting to have a better relationship with Russia, " they need to understand what that will cost us.

Just wanted to add that people refer to the Russian mob in NYC but few people realize that there is a direct connection between the mob and Putin and his oligarchs and actually the mob runs the government.

The mock brothers backed Trump the entire primary season... always believe the opposite of their press releases.

and in exchange Trump gave them the AFP dream cabinet and is working on their 100+ federal judges plus one Supreme Court Justice so far. They are all AFP/Koch approved.

It troubles me that this is not common knowledge. We never get news coverage of the brothers, even though they are our masters.

The brothers know how to hedge a bet.

R173, you are invaluable. Thank you.

R157. Richard Nixon committed a crime, but it was not treason. Robert E. Lee joined the states that succeeded leading to a civil war. Not the same context.

SJW revisionism doesn't change the facts of history.

Question I was listening to a radio show this morning (Make it Plain) and one of his questions this morning was whether or not people thought that Dump trying to fire Mueller was a slam dunk case for obstruction of justice. Most callers agreed that it was.

Here's my question. Is it?

Wouldn't his intent have to be proved? If he says that he wanted to fire Mueller because Mueller has a bias against him, etc. Would that still be considered obstruction of justice?

Another laurel for dear R173.

I remember when the election was imminent and I kept hearing positive stuff about Russia. I am 44, but I know the history of Russia's machinations, and was cognizant during the Cold War. It was a huge red flag, and I watched this whole investigation unfurl without a moment's surprise.

Tickle Down Economics is far more interesting.

I don't think the Dutch like Trump or his administration very well. A reporter caught the newly appointed US Ambassador to The Netherlands in a lie about fake news and cars/journalists being burned in parts of The Netherlands. The reporter called him out on the lie and showed him video of him saying exactly what he denied saying. Then, at a larger press conference, the entire Dutch media gangbangs the Ambassador until he basically runs screaming from the room. I wish our press would treat our officials like this.

Nixon was a traitor.

[quote]Robert E. Lee joined the states that [bold]succeeded[/bold] leading to a civil war. Not the same context.

Oh honey, learn how to write a coherent sentence in English before you lecture people on SJWs and treason.

Fucking idiot.

[quote]If you drive your neighbor to Olive Garden and you sit outside while neighbor supposedly picks up a carry out but instead he robs them, you better assert your Fifth.

Maybe I'm naive but why wouldn't you just tell the truth and not try to hide it and make yourself look suspicious. I mean, if you've already been arrested and are being questioned you've obviously been caught on camera or witnessed being in the car and driving the robber there. We can extrapolate this out to the Trump bullshit because he (or at least his lawyers) must know that Mueller already knows the answer to any question he's going to ask. Trying to take the Fifth will end Trump faster than impeachment.

Our new Ambassador to the Netherlands is a racist white supremacist piece of shit. he is a vile Extremist Christian Right bastard. He's from Michigan and so am I.

[quote] the entire Dutch media gangbangs the Ambassador

Pics please.

This is for R173, R150 (thank you also if not the same poster), and anyone else with knowledge who can participate in this discussion:

I was watching political commenters on CNN and MSNBC in regards to this latest bombshell regarding Trump attempting to fire Mueller last June. Most seem to speculate that Trump would NOT plead the 5th because of the political optics and ramifications. My feeling is that Trump has proved time and again he doesn’t give a shit about optics. He cares only about himself and only lives in the moment. He stalls as much as possible - whenever possible – when questioned or approached to reveal anything that could be incriminating, (like his taxes, for example). Therefore, it stands to reason that unless he can suddenly come up with a lie or explanation that isn’t highly implausible even to him, he would absolutely plead the 5th.

Would you guys agree? Why or why wouldn't he? Thanks.

R199, This analogy doesn't work:

"why wouldn't you just tell the truth and not try to hide it and make yourself look suspicious. I mean, if you've already been arrested and are being questioned you've obviously been caught on camera or witnessed being in the car and driving the robber there. "

Because Trump IS THE ROBBER. Therefore, he cannot just "tell the truth". I hope you get that,+.

nobody uses the word sjw except deplorable scum. That phrase is always on these strange accounts with like a picture of a far kid drinking Mountain Dew and has 1 follower.

As if we are supposed to turn our back on social justice icons like MLK and JFK just because some nascar watching loser told us to.

Fake word, fake news and fake trolls. F off already.

And the hits keep on coming. Cheeto should travel overseas more often.

Reminder that the GOP demanded the Dems return Weinstein's donations. Steve Wynn is GOP's Finance Chair! #awkward #PlasticSurgeryHorror

They need to return the money. It’s only fair.

[quote]They need to return the money. It’s only fair.

Like Rethugs ever cared about doing what's fair.

If Trump pleads the fifth it would be the same thing as saying guilty on all counts.

Trump will plead the fifth as a response to every single question or blame Hillary and Obama to kick the can further down the road. Trump has no intention of being forced out now. He still needs more time to put money in his pockets by making shady business deals with international crooks after Davos.

Maybe he'll just do what all the fucks do and respond with, "I don't recall."

R199 was simply describing a situation where a person might not be guilty of a crime but it might be in their interests to plead the 5th. Trump is not that person, but I can understand why someone could be innocent & plead the 5th.

I agree with R203 that Trump doesn't give a shit about optics in general, or at least in the way PR types traditionally might advise other people. But he believes he is different and so far it has worked.

But here's the thing, and I said some of this upthread earlier. Trump does care about being seen to grovel. Don't forget, in Trump World he is El Supremo! He is not going to appear to be a supplicant to Mueller by pleading the 5th, unless he goes on the offensive first.

My bet is that Trump comes out swinging with Mueller, and goes on the attack, to try to put him on the defensive. ( I know. Don't laugh.) His strategy will be to attack Mueller and characterize this as a political witch hunt in which he is treated unfairly and there is a conspiracy and it also involves the Media, and He has been treated more unfairly than any other President in History, and why haven't they investigated the corrupt FBI and the Hillary Clinton missing e-mails. Basically he will give a rendition of the familiar stump speech he gives at his rallies.

Mueller is smart enough to understand this ploy. he will listen patiently, and he will then, very gently, lead POTUS to the questions. And lower the hammer, because yes, he already knows the answers and he will not need them to chrge Trump or to get a conviction in a fair court proceeding. In the meantime I hope Paul Ryan finds his balls. If not he needs to face obstruction charges with heavy penalties and jail time.

Trump is never going to meet with Mueller. Mueller doesn't need him to make his case, anyway.

[quote]He still needs more time to put money in his pockets by making shady business deals with international crooks after Davos.

Post-Davos cockiness will assist Mueller. Mueller's been dealing with forensics for months, not getting a narcissistic rush from bright billionaires in Switzerland. If Mueller's detailed facts are in a row, Trump's showboating, his 'dealmaking', will be ever more tragic theatre.

I know people who worked on shows at the Wynn. Judging from their stories, Wynn is, at best, a asshole megalomaniac and, at worst, dangerously unbalanced. Any wonder he’s been on the Trump Train?

R200 "Maybe I'm naive but why wouldn't you just tell the truth and not try to hide it and make yourself look suspicious."

Because you can't assume the police/prosecutor are going to play fair. They often don't. There are plenty of careerists who don't care about justice so much as they do about getting a conviction, any conviction. I've had many clients who tried to do the "right" thing with the police and ended up getting screwed.

[quote]"Maybe I'm naive but why wouldn't you just tell the truth and not try to hide it and make yourself look suspicious."

See below:

It feels like the rate of leaks and trickle of stories has become a flood in recent weeks - every day there’s new stuff coming out - big and small - none of it enough in itself to sink the Cheeto and his minions in themselves - but the incredible weight and accumulation of it all must be doing severe damage...

And seriously: how could this administration recover from all this (especially when the assorted idiots involved also keep doing new stupid stuff as well!)

Was listening to a Dan Carlin podcast about WW1 - and he was discussing a moment which comes in every war where one of the protagonists isn’t actually defeated yet - but they also realise that they can no longer win...

Surely this government must be at this stage?

If so - then the level of desperation will get even worse from now on? There’ll be lots more resignations as people try to escape before it completely tanks leaving it’s toxic stench on anyone involved - and there’s a real danger that those remaining at the top may get itchy trigger fingers at the thought of creating a major distraction to try and save themselves...

The only thing I can see they have going for them is a collective fatigue as the public is numbed with by the daily revelations - it all just becomes grist - and yet it’s seemingky going on without consequences (we know there will be - but these things take time).

Seriously: can this administration ever really recover from all the shit that’s going down and actually govern? You’d have to think it was impossible now...

I will make it my mission to not let anyone forget who was complicit in this mess. Any congress member, any Media mouth piece...I have been backing up news clips showing the behavior, as I have already noticed some clips are really hard to find. Paul Ryan especially likes to make his regretful mouth noise disappear.

There’s like 500 people in on this. It’s staggering.

Actually R219 -that’s a great idea! Collecting interviews etc with those minions and having them indexes so they can be seen to eat their own words later is useful - but I have some reservations as to how useful...

What i find hard to come to terms with is this:

The last ten-twenty tears have seen an explosion in digital access and archiving of old footage - so time and time again this administration has been caught out by some footage surfacing that completely contradicts the message they’re currently tried to spin

But is it just me - or does this rarely linger for long in the public and get the attention it richly deserves?

I mean - just the other day the footage of the Cheeto back in the day going on and on about how if there’s a government shutdown - it’s the fault of the president (Obama). He’s very clear on that. Now he’s in charge - it’s the fault of the Democrats. All very amusing - but that footage needs to hammered home everywhere. Especially on sites and social media outlets where his base can see it.

Has that happened though? Seems to have had a brief burst of energy - then quickly forgotten.

I hate to advocate conspiracy theory - but this is not the first time this has happened. Someone out there is awfully good at removing or downplaying footage that should be getting likes and retweets and going viral.

Or am I sadly paranoid and misinformed?

The Family Tree of Treason

R221. you do have a point, but I still think it is valuable to keep a record for those of us who DO care.

Yes, I saw the footage of Trump blaming the President (Obama, at the time) for the shutdown. But did deplorables, who only watch Fox for their news see it? Of course not. Fox shields the deplorables from hearing about any bad news about Trump—or they spin it and dismiss it. And the deplorables are happy to just nod their heads in agreement. They’re not the brightest bulbs in the house.

President Donald Trump pressed senior aides last June to devise and carry out a campaign to discredit senior FBI officials after learning that those specific employees were likely to be witnesses against him as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, according to two people directly familiar with the matter.

In testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee on June 8, recently fired FBI Director James Comey disclosed that he spoke contemporaneously with other senior bureau officials about potentially improper efforts by the president to curtail the FBI’s investigation of alleged collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Mueller is investigating whether Trump’s efforts constituted obstruction of justice.

I'm telling you the intelligence community is done with this shit. There will be more leaks.

The Russia Cover Up and Conspiring to Lie to Federal Authorities

To our faithful, long suffering Allies I offer my humble thanks and gratitude for your ceaseless work against this traitor.

I mean it. You give me hope that eventually there will be just too much and it will drown these stupid, insidious traitors and hang them out to dry.

I agree we're at the point where "the other side" can't win but this is also the point where desperation kicks in and they try trick plays and "Hail Marys." It is going to be ugly for awhile.

U predict it will become ugliest around September through the end of the year.

Especially as the special elections go to Democrats. The fear of God will hit these traitors about September and then the hard core shit will start right before the election. Watch.

The most frightening thing about this is how easy it’s been for the GOP to take control of everything and do so much damage. In a weird way, we should be thankful that their standard-bearer is Trump. If it was someone less stupid or less criminally inclined, there’d be no hope of getting him out.

Isn't it heartwarming that some nations don't play into Trump's and Putin's hands?

I think the fear of God is hitting the traitors right now. They're seeing what the elections will look like in November. Alabama put a Democrat in the Senate!!! They see the writing on the wall. Ryan will continue to do nothing and allow his minions to run wild. He will continue to take big $$$ from donors and will not run again in 2018. He wants away from this mess so he can run again for president in 2020. McConnel is an evil bastard. He will continue to block anything that is good for the people. His wife is making lots of money on back channel deals with Chinese shipping companies. They will continue to do everything possible to back the Orange Turd to continue their gravy train. Some of the younger ones like Nunes will try harder because they just got in on the whole thing and want more.

Call my crazy, but I do think from here on now it's all going to be scorched earth destruction. The Republican Party knows that they won't get away with it and take all they can carry and burn the rest to the ground and go into hiding. Leave it to the Democratic Party to clean up the mess that takes decades to clean up (if ever).

R231 The republicans would have never allowed the democrats to block a supreme court nominee for a year. They would have shut down the government and done everything in their power to push the nomination forward. They're truly willing to fight and cheat for their billionaire donor overloads. I wish the democrats had the same fury for the common people.

R178, immunity just means the govt can't use what you say against you. That's the entire essence of the Fifth Amendment. There are different types/levels of immunity but suffice it to say if they later decide they want to prosecute you they have to find evidence independent of your testimony. There is often litigation where the govt has to prove they did not use the witness' testimony and that they had other independent avenue and/or sources.

The govt often offers the witness what's called "letter immunity" (which is considered informal immunity) given to the witness via a letter spelling out the scope of the immunity. A witness does not have to accept letter immunity. They can insist on statutory immunity. Though "letter immunity" is enforceable in court, lawyers often make the govt get statutory immunity because it makes them jump through more hoops, takes more time and some witnesses aren't willing to voluntarily cooperate. Some witnesses are treated shabbily by some prosecutors and the last thing that witness will do is make it easy for that prosecutor. Though there should be cases where the govt can't get approval from DOJ for statutory immunty, they always do if they want it even if it goes against DOJ guidelines. For all practical purposes if DOJ approves a request from a US Attorney's Office for statutory immunity the federal judge issuing the order to testify rubber stamps it.

Immunity does not cover perjury - so if you lie when you are testifying under immunity and the government can demonstrably prove it, well there goes your immunity. And additionally you will be prosecuted for perjury and maybe obstruction of justice. There are all kinds of intricacies in these cases and there are various ways to prove perjury.

But, no, being given immunity does not let you walk free but it does mean the govt needs to be able to prove they obtained their evidence apart from your testimony.

I'll finish my thoughts below.

R216 explains very well why even the innocent should assert in some circumstances. For all you know the robber is telling the govt you're the brains behind the robbery. If the govt doesn't believe you are in any way involved - or even if they do but want your testimony to get the bigger player - then they won't hesitate to give you immunity. If they do believe you are involved then your lawyer will be informed that you're a target or a subject of the investigation. And then, of course, you assert your Fifth.

And for god's sake never go before a grand jury without a lawyer first. You just tell them you want a lawyer when you get to the grand jury and the govt wants to talk to you. That lawyer will talk to the govt and find out as much as possible about the case both from the govt and sometimes their own investigation and try to find out exactly what they want to ask you. Some prosecutors are more forthcoming than others. If there are taped interviews of you or any statement you made they will turn them over so the witness can review them with the lawyer. If there is a prior grand jury apoearance by the witness then the prosecutor needs to get judicial approval to lift the gj secrecy and give the gj transcript to you. It comes with a judicial order to keep it secret and not give a copy to your client or leave your copy with them - tho obviously you can review it with them. Sometimes the witness will have already made statements and then later need to amend something because they remembered it better or forgot something or didn't understand a question. Changing anything raises suspicions and best that a lawyer handle that.

Also please be mindful you are being subpoened to the grand jury only. You are not being subpoened to anyone's office. They always want to talk to you first in their office but you do not have to do that if you don't want to. At times there is no harm -attorneys will go into the office with the witness and sometimes make the representations of what they will testify to for the witness. Or even let the witness speak. But the atty needs to make sure they have gone over everything with the witness to ensure there aren't Fifth issues (which sometimes is impossible to cover everything) and, if neccessary, get an immunity letter that covers those conversations in the prosecutor's office. Witnesses often surprise attorneys by saying something not anticipated that hurts them. The govt should also explain the practical procedures once in the grand jury and that can be helpful for the witness to hear.

Mueller's org chart for the investigation probably looks a lot like this, only more complicated.

R199 your argument is highlighting a device spelling error? You are not ready for 'Oh, Dear' primetime. Perhaps take a break from your basement safe space and read some history. Then re-read five times.

Does no one care about the Dutch intel story? It seems big to me, but MSM isn't covering it. It claims the Dutch have the Russians on tape hacking DNC and that Trump was alerted early 2017; paints a pathetic picture of Trump knowing they hacked yet saying he believed Putin when he said they didn't.

Also, in regards to the Dutch story, the Dutch are pissed off at US because someone leaked to the WaPo , and outed their spying to the Russians. If it was the WH that leaked (and they were the ones informed of Dutch early 2017), the implications are huge that Trump/WH betrayed this info to help Russia and put our allies in danger.

R240 Americans are just worn out, it’s a lot to take in. In hindsight, I wish the Dutch did this a year ago, but I understand why they had to wait and love them for their loyalty. And r241, HOLY FUCK, that is the first I’m reading that!!!!!!!!!!! First, he outed Israeli spurs and now the Dutch too? Good on them, we all need to take our our earrings, push up our sleeves, and knock some teeth out. It’s time. If you’ve ever wanted to rumble Phyllis, this is your chance!

—R173/175/R236 has replaced The Poll Troll as DL's sexiest poster.

R243 I'm prepared to fight and kill all of you for the right to accept his milky loads.

Agree, Victor is hot and Luke knows what he is doing. But Jon was sweet in an awkward way and Luke was into stud-slim. Victor may last awhile with Luke, but he if he gets too possessive on holidays he will be making Jon's big mistake.

^ Deplorable deflection is getting really desperate.

Ha!!!

Where is the link to the Dutch article?

ABC:

WaPo:

Reuters:

MotherJones:

Kyle Griffin re The New York Times:

[quote] Does no one care about the Dutch intel story?

I care. Will they now abandon us or just be more careful who they share this intel with?

I care as well.

I can't see the WH leaking this as it makes dump look even more guilty. Why? Unless it's some idiot trying to cause problems and get the Dutch attacked by Russian Intel.

I hope the Dutch hacker left a bomb for cozy bear. Fuck those ruskies.

The Dutch story will probably prove to be VERY important. And that’s just the one country that we know about. Aside from Russia and Israel (and probably Turkey), there isn’t a nation in the world that wouldn’t move heaven and earth to get Trump out of office. The American IC and their considerable efforts are just the tip of the iceberg.

If Mueller asks Trump if he ordered to have him fired, if he answers no, it's perjury and if he answers yes, it's obstruction of justice.

Can't Trump claim "Executive Privilege" because he was talking to the WH Counsel?

[quote]If Mueller asks Trump if he ordered to have him fired, if he answers no, it's perjury and if he answers yes, it's obstruction of justice.

Unfortunately, if he says yes, it’s not actual, provable obstruction of justice. By your standards and my standards, it is, but the law demands more. Though it certainly suggests a pattern.

Joy Reid just read the federal Statute for Obstruction on the iar, and it looks like Trump, everyone around him, and Devin Nunes, Paul Ryan, Trey Gowdy and several members of the U.S.Senate could easily be charged, and the charges would stick.

R258, I'm 100% certain that his legal council aren't the only people he talked to about this, and that's even assuming attorney/client privilege applies in this case.

I don't believe attorney/client privilege applies to Trump and the WH counsel. He's the White House's lawyer, not Trump's lawyer.

[quote]Does no one care about the Dutch intel story? It seems big to me, but MSM isn't covering it.

The American media basically omit any acknowledgement when a foreign country has been of assistance to the USA, unless it is awkward to leave it out of the story line. This has been going on since the beginning of time. One only has to be a citizen of another country that has been of assistance in the past to observe this deafening silence in the American media. It's okay, we're quite used to being the unsung heroes. In US media it's all America, all the time.

The White House Counsel is not his personal legal counsel. It was McGahn who he ordered to fire Mueller. McGahn is the White House Counsel not his personal attorney. Discussing this with other people isn't necessarily the point, IMO. What is germain here is that he gave an order to the WH Counsel to fire the Special Prosecutor.

It seems like that would fall under Executive Privilege. He wasn't discussing it with Lester Holt. As far as who else he discussed this with, as long as he was talking to members of his WH staff about it , that could reasonably be considered executive privilege. Now I would really like to hear from our legal expert on this because I'm certainly not one.

Trump could frame it as a discussion, meaning not necessarily an attempt to fire Mueller but a discussion about the "possibility" of firing him. I'm just worried that we'll all (me mostly) get our hopes up that this it, this is the smoking gun, he can be impeached for this, and then nothing happens. Interesting point made on Joy Reid's show this morning that everything will hinge on whether or not Congress has the will to act, and so far they have not shown they care. There is a lot more talk on Twitter about Nunes and possibly Ryan being in the crosshairs of Obstruction charges under the Federal Obstruction Statute.

Don Jr. claimed attorney-client confidentiality when he was talking to daddy with a lawyer in the room.

Not the brightest bulbs on the porch, these.

Donnie can't claim executive privilege. Only the President can. Not Donnie or Steve Bannon or WTF ever.

If Mueller only refers obstruction charges, the hopes of impeachment are substantially weakened and the hopes of conviction are essentially dashed.

In my opinion, the Rs in the Senate will only have the appetite to convict based on the public reaction to multiple and well-founded charges complete with the president named as an unindicted co-conspirator.

Also in my opinion, multiple and well-founded charges complete with the president named as an unindicted co-conspirator are more likely than not.

Doesn't there have to be some national security implication in order to claim executive privilege? It's not like he can claim his last McDonald's order is secret due to executive privilege.

R263 is spot on.

I'll wait patiently until criminal charges are brought. Those should be an eye opener for his base.

My expectation will be that indictments, if/when done, will be announced for Kushner, Junior, and DJT, on the same day. Others may be sooner. Kushner could be before Trump if he's going to really talk; but Kushner could be the one with the most and deepest charges, particularly if money laundering is at the core. He seems to have had his hands in a lot of messy activity, and was quite inept in covering his tracks.

[quote]I'll wait patiently until criminal charges are brought. Those should be an eye opener for his base.

It'll be grimly fascinating to see how Fox News will handle such momentous events. (Find 'a new angle' on Hillary's emails, probably.) It should be 'an eye opener', but there's none so blind as those who will not see.

Trump will outlast Mueller. Bank on it.

R270 and others... "I'll wait patiently until criminal charges are brought. Those should be an eye opener for his base."

With all due respect, I think you and others keep making the mistake of giving his base the benefit of the doubt. That they are basically good people who want the best for this country. Although I'm certain some are, most are comprised of those who are deeply racist, angry, dangerous, and want nothing more than this country to be all White. So anything to keep Trump in power is okay with them, even if it means involvement with the Russians or any foreign power. They are unreachable and simply need to be written off. Very sad, but I believe this to be true and we have to accept this when planning our strategy.

That's not too odd to use that phrase at all R273.

R274 is right.

^^From the poll:

In marked contrast to the rest of the country, Republicans also say that Trump shares their values (82 percent) and that — get this — he “provides the United States with moral leadership” (80 percent).

[quote]he “provides the United States with moral leadership” (80 percent).

You betcha!

[quote] Those should be an eye opener for his base.

They will say "it's fake news" until their dying breath. Their brains are too brainwashed to handle, translate, and comprehend the same information we receive. Unless there is something similar than what the Allies in Nazi Germany could do and drag the Germans into the Nazi Camps to make them see with their own eyes what the Nazis did. I don't think this sort of eye opening experience for the Deplorables will come from an impeachment trial.

Since the beginning, there have been stories that the IC has tapes of the majority of conversations....including meetings between Trump people and Russian agents in europe.....and supposedly there is also a conversation with Trump himself...... think that would chip away at least a third of his base....and some media support.

I read a theory that the reason Mueller appears to be concentrating on potential obstruction charges for Trump right now is that, not only are they relatively easy to prove (I mean, that Trump has been attempting to obstruct justice is clear to anyone with a functioning brain), but that putting such charges before the relevant authorities would insulate him (Mueller) against the risk of Trump firing him, as far as that's possible for him to do. Once Mueller brings those charges against Trump, the theory is that that would make the optics of attempting to remove Mueller from his position too unpalatable for even Trump/the Republicans.

Then, once he can no longer be fired, things will start motoring on the money laundering, conspiracy with Russia etc. charges.

Not Sean Hannity.

The clip of Joe Scarborough laughing until he cried when Hannity had to go through the stages of grief made my day.

Does anyone have a link to the Joy Reid clip mentioned above?

Never forget, on the day Nixon resigned, he still had a 25% approval rating. Idiocy is stubborn.

R279 - et al -

When WW1 was done, many - if not most! - German civilians were gobsmacked.. they just couldn’t believe it was as over - and that they weren’t the victors. Their news media had fed them a narrative of superiority and glorious battles. Victory was just around the corner! So when that didn’t happen - they were pissed! And it had to have been soneone’s fault. Someone - or group - had sold out the fatherland! The Bolsheviks! The Jews! The bankers! Even some of the generals!

Kind of left a very fractured, broken society in the aftermath. And that didn’t end well.

The actual troops mostly knew better - they understood the significane of dwindling resources and the utter exhaustion of the military after four years. But that didn’t fit the narrative of the propaganda that had been fed to the populace.

Whatever happens with the Cheeto and his demon spawn and henchmen - there will be people who’ve sat at home and watched the Fox propaganda for several years - and they will also not be easily convinced after any downfall. From the outside looking in - it seems like American society will be more fractured and polarised than ever.

What this means for the future - who can say? - but can’t see it being easy.

Mueller will take down Trump with the obstruction charge.....he will be impeached and then Mueller will nail him with everything else along with all those complicit....and there will be no fears of pardons, etc. Just because Trump leaves office doesnt mean the investigation ends.

[quote] Although I'm certain some are, most are comprised of those who are deeply racist, angry, dangerous, and want nothing more than this country to be all White. So anything to keep Trump in power is okay with them, even if it means involvement with the Russians or any foreign power. They are unreachable and simply need to be written off.

This R274, except it's not most, it's all of them - every. last. one. I hope the FBI is ready when Mueller takes bozo and his clown posse down. The deplorable rabble are going to be crazed and angry. Hopefully they'll reach for their pills and booze instead of their guns.

It's here, R283.

Trump says he’s wants to talk with Mueller and he will, (subject to his lawyers, of course).

Translation: He’ll talk to Mueller right after he releases his tax returns.

Thanks, R288.

R289 he doesn't have a choice. Either he talks now or his giant ass is subpoenaed.

How long can he delay it?

I think with Hannity and a couple others someone like the guy who signs their contracts, will have to bring them back from the limb they find themselves on for defending trump too vigorously.

But on the obstruction thing, it's not exactly like getting a parking ticket. It's a fucking federal crime. And personally, if I were Mueller and I wanted to jar Congress into doing their fucking job, I'd charge Nunes with obstruction, and maybe one or two others, and I would make Paul Ryan belileve he was very likely going to be charged with obstruction.n You know there have to be tapes or wiretaps on those bastards. But if a couple of members of Congress got swept up in this net of Obstruction ...and conspiracy,,,, that would be a huge wake up call to Congress. I 'd love to see Federal Marshals frog march a handcuffed Nunes to the squad car in prime time.

If the GOP would fear that they are themselves in Mueller's crosshair he would have been gone a long time ago. The Republican Party is ready to dump Trump for the mid-term election to gain favors with the "finally, he's gone! Thank you Republicans for doing the right thing in the end!" voters. I would be VERY surprised if anyone beyond a sacrificial lamb would take a hit in the Republican Party.

R285, what if we are the ones who are being fed the "we're winning" stuff? I keep worrying that that's the case. Everything would seem to be supported by facts and evidence, etc., but, as you've pointed out, we've seen this before. I hope it is the Trump and the Traitors and their fanbase that is being mislead and hyped and not us. I try to stay hopeful and keep an open mind about everything to make sure that I'm not falling for the hype about Trumps eventual downfall but this world is usually disappointing to the rational among us.

[quote]When WW1 was done, many - if not most! - German civilians were gobsmacked.. they just couldn’t believe it was as over - and that they weren’t the victors. Their news media had fed them a narrative of superiority and glorious battles. Victory was just around the corner! So when that didn’t happen - they were pissed! And it had to have been soneone’s fault. Someone - or group - had sold out the fatherland! The Bolsheviks! The Jews! The bankers! Even some of the generals!

r285, Fox News will feed the Deplorables the narrative that serves the GOP. I bet FOX News will blame the Deep State, Hillary or Obama. The GOP or Fox News will never ever take responsibility for telling lies to their audiences. And the audience will accepte any scapegoat as the true reason why things didn't happen the way Trump and Fox News promised them.

R287 I know it seems that way sometimes, (and maybe it's true where you live), but I know some genuinely great, sincere, and smart individuals (except for this), who still stand by their original decision. I like to think of them as being under some evil witch's spell and I'm waiting for the spell to be broken so they can finally come to their senses.

R296, FWIW, Conor Lamb in PA's upcoming special election is only polling 3 points behind the rethug running. In a "safe" Republican district that orange won by a substantial margin.

We aren't the ones being deceived, unless all of these special elections are just "flukes" of the highest order and I doubt it.

Deplorables are mad and stomping their little feet but liberals are mad and stomping to the ballot box.

R298 the only way they will come to their sense is when they feel it in their wallets. Then they'll blame the Democrats even though all fucking branches of government are under R control.

R300 But that's the thing! Some of them ARE Democrats, (or used to be, anyway).

What is the cure for brainwashing? There has to be a soulution.

As long as this is treated as a psychological issue then it can be fixed.

it’s not political at this point. The advertisers of right wing media need to be shamed and blamed. They put the prop in propaganda. Without their $$$ fox would have to pull the plug. There should be protest outside of their headquarters demanding they set the record straight.

Right wing media is dangerous and a public hazard. It’s destroying the country.

Look. Millions of people, mostly women came out to march two years in a row. The special elections have been going against the GOP hard. A bunch of GOP members of Congress have all announced they will not stand for re-election. . So I think the Deplorables might be very vocal but they are pretty invisible. There's way more of u than there are of them. My concern is if we do make it out of this terrible situation, we need to take measures so it doesn't happen again. We need to make some rules about campaigning, and we need to insist that there is public financing of elections, and that no campaign can last for more than 6 months. The media will fight us because they make a lot of money off politicians, but fuck them.

R65 from the Urban Dictionary. To shit or go blind: This is a phrase used when someone is confused and cannot decide between two choices. It is derived from the conundrum faced by a teenage male who lives in a house with one bathroom and a large family. When you live in a house with lots of people you can only masturbate in the privacy of the bathroom. You also have limited time because everyone has to use the same bathroom. Hence the dilemma, should I shit or jack off, which everyone told you would cause you to go blind. The running back put such a move on the linebacker he did not know whether to shit or go blind! #shit or wind your watch#confused#beaten#faked out#schooled by Mr Wod November 29, 2010

It is impossible to underestimate the moral character of Trump supporters. There really is no point whatsoever in giving them the benefit of the doubt. I can't think of anything within the realm of possibility that would cause them to stop supporting him. He would have to repudiate everything that they like about him (his stances on abortion, guns, gays, immigrants etc.) for them to finally desert that bloated, orange Titanic, and a big chunk of them would still insist that the "Deep Obama/Hillary State" was making him do it.

One thing that we haven't discussed is that republicans have basically gone underground since Trump's election. Very few have held town halls or had any direct communication with their constituents. They're running and hiding from their local offices. When they have decided to meet with the voters (example Grassley's town hall in Mt. Ayr, IA), the crowds have torn them apart. When people run for the House and Senate, the constituents expect to see the politicians up close and personal. You can't win many elections (especially House elections) by running and hiding and not kissing babies and knocking on doors. The republicans who will run for re-election are going to have to defend Trump and it's going to be hard. The good news is we're doing pretty well in special elections. In special elections, it's most likely two people without much baggage to Trump. It's only going to get worse in the generals when all the republicans will be tied to Trump.

r307....Why do you think the majority of the tax cuts wont really take effect until next year....and why Trump pushed for an immediate adjustment so people save a few dollars with their paychecks Now instead of next year......its smoke and mirrors to play the population before they realize the damage done....ala Reagan.

NBC's Pete Williams reporting that FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe is stepping down.

i wonder if they negotiated a way for him to leave and still get his pension? He's leaving two months earlier then announced. He's a real loss. Mc Cabe is a good man.

I believe the only way the Deplorables would turn on him is when he comes for their guns, as in literally taking away their guns. I mean the Deplorables are ok to have no healthcare when it hurts the foreign moochers more, same with money and jobs, but they will not accept the claim that the others will suffer more when they can't have their guns anymore.

So, is McCabe leaving a win for the Deplorables? Will they see this as "proof" that the "Deep State" is being dismantled?

Why is he leaving?

FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe stepped down Monday as the agency’s No. 2, multiple sources familiar with the matter told NBC News.

McCabe will remain on the FBI payroll until he is eligible to retire with full benefits in mid-March, the sources said.

One source familiar said McCabe was exercising his retirement eligibility and characterized McCabe’s decision as "stepping aside."

McCabe has been at the center of ongoing tensions between the White House and the FBI and has reportedly been on the receiving end of pressure to quit from President Donald Trump, whose campaign is being investigated for possible collusion with Russia.

Earlier this month, the Washington Post reported that after Trump had fired FBI Director James Comey, he met with McCabe in the Oval Office and asked him who he voted for in the 2016 election.

Trump, the officials told The Post, also vented his anger at McCabe over the several hundred thousand dollars in donations that his wife, a Democrat, received for her failed 2015 Virginia state Senate bid from a political action committee controlled by a close friend of Hillary Clinton.

No, McCabe leaving is a personal win for Trump. He is getting closer with every move, to remaking the FBI and the DOJ, his own rubber stamp politically corrupt department, and they will engage with whole sale selective investigations and prosecution of anyone Trump wants investigated. The FBI has always leaned conservative and they have always had a political mission as when they were after Dr. MLK, Jr. etc. and the anti-war radicals in the 70's. but this was always done clandestinely. Now they will do it right out in the open and do more of it. Now it will be official policy. So this isn't a good day. McCabe had planned on leaving in March. Maybe they made a deal for him to leave earlier? I hope he runs for attorney General in one of those states where Trump has business dealings. But my guess is that he lands a very high dollar partnership in a classy law firm. Didn't he do a lot of counterterrorism work ?

Cheeto look like a turd is caught @ R295

I don't see how it can be interpreted as anything but a win for Trump.

At the moment it feels like the tide is turning in Trump's favor.

It's depressing but I'm hopeful that this receding tide is like what happens shortly before a Tsunami comes slamming back to shore.

Trump will take the FBI back to the bad old days of Hoover, but with himself as the fat fuck who makes cannon fodder of his political enemies by destroying their reputations as well as their lives. He's used to doing that. He's been destroying lives for years.

Federal employees who retire at full benefits almost always have lots of sick leave and sometimes annual leave accrued. They often take it at the end of their career leaving early but technically remain a federal employee until their retirement date.

He can make a fortune elsewhere without the headaches of serving in this administration. Plus he had no future with bureau.

I hope some Democrat brings him back as Director of FBI. LOLOL! What a filthy fuck is Trump. and you know Sessions had his fists all the way up the FBI's ass on this one. Rosenstein is the next one. They are laser focused on him right now. I hope he is strong enough to stand up to it. It would be terrible if they remove him. That will get them inches closer to getting rid of Mueller. I hope Mueller issues charges against Trump Jared Donnie Jr. before the end of March. He can present his findings to the House of Representatives in May or June. LOL! Then in phase three get Sessions, Kelly Ann Steve Bannon, Steve Miller, Devin Nunes and Paul Ryan for obstruction. As I sit here, I think about the Koch who announced a couple days ago their dumping more than $400 Million into the midterms to save the GOP Congress. Do they ever consider the treason that has been committed, or are they in denial?

I'm also confused about the new #ReleaseTheMemo crap going on on Twitter. Is there actually something in it that is damaging to our side?

I'm trying to read through Seth and Kyle's posts but I'm still confused.

[quote]I'm also confused about the new #ReleaseTheMemo crap going on on Twitter. Is there actually something in it that is damaging to our side?

From the NY Times today: Secret Memo Hints at a New Republican Target: Rod Rosenstein

"A secret, highly contentious Republican memo reveals that Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein approved an application to extend surveillance of a former Trump campaign associate shortly after taking office last spring, according to three people familiar with it."

The Republicans are wary of Trump outright firing Mueller, so they want to lay the groundwork for Trump to fire Rosenstein and pick a successor who will then fire Mueller.

No, R322. As I understand it, and someone please correct me if I'm mistaken, Devin Nunes, Intel committee staff compiled a memmo pulling various disparate threads together of half truths, truths and lies to concoct a "case" against the FBI. They are "bulding a case" to show that the FBI was biased against Trump and was politically motivated to investigate him by information contained in the Steele Dossier which they intend to discredit. Not only is it a spectacular example on an Orwellian level, of disinformation, but it also will contain classified nuggets of Intel mixed with other shit, and for that reason alone the FBI has asked that they not release information of a classified nature. Nunes has nothing damaging to Mueller. What he does have is information that endangers national security because it will compromise a lot of our sources. Like the Dutch, etc in terms of sources. Nunes is a rotten piece of shit. I want him to die in a grease fire.

The saturday night massacre called and wants its plot back.

Matthew Yglesias‏ @mattyglesias

Trump’s effort to carry out a purge of the security services is proceeding fitfully, but it is in fact proceeding.

R326, glad they're noticing.

I look for something major to drop today as a FU to Trump. Probably not from Mueller but something leaked from the IC - won't be surprised if it is leaked from foreign IC. Both McCabe and Comey were well liked by the FBI rank and file. This can't make Wray's job any easier

Especially right before the State of the Union...would be delightful timing.

[quote]A secret, highly contentious Republican memo reveals that Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein approved an application to extend surveillance of a former Trump campaign associate shortly after taking office last spring

Is the #ReleasetheMemo BS supposed to make us think this approval was somehow illegal / unwarranted just because it was someone from Trump's campaign?

Right wing media is back to stirring up the deplorables over immigration this week. Rush is on a tear with the 1984 style propaganda and wild accusations today.

I wonder if he is on a certain dictator's payroll along with the NRA.

[quote]A secret, highly contentious Republican memo reveals that Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein approved an application to extend surveillance of a former Trump campaign associate shortly after taking office last spring

Well, maybe if Trump hadn’t staffed his campaign with criminals, that wouldn’t have happened. Duh.

It might be this. This seems to me to be a BFD...

Oooooooh! Now THAT'S juicy.

From r333' linked article:

[quoteThe interest of Veselnitskaya and the Russian prosecutor general’s office is likely to be linked back to a $230 million tax fraud that was uncovered by Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who was working for Bill Browder, whose Hermitage Capital had major investments in Russia. After discovering the massive financial crime that could be linked back to the Russian government, Magnitsky was arrested, beaten, and allowed to die in a Russian jail cell.

[quote]Alexander Perepilichnyy, a Russian businessman living near London, had tipped off Magnitsky about the role played by Switzerland in the international scam. A few weeks before he was due to give evidence at a hearing in Lausanne, he died suddenly while he was out running.

Ho.Ly. Fuck!

Valerie Bertinelli stars in "Me, Natalia: Scandal, Lies, and Power for Profit".

Hmmm, there are conflicting reports now regarding McCabe, some reporters are saying he was forced to step down, others saying he was "urged" , and others saying he was removed from his duties.

The current FBI director, Wray, threatened to resign if McCabe was forced to step down, so we'll see what happens with him.

I have a weird question I’m hoping someone can help me with. I currently live in Peter Roskam’s district in IL. Currently, we have 12 amazing contenders (or sknecsuch number) running Dem. Indivisible has a meeting here yesterday, my mom attended. How in the hell do I figure out who to vote for?? Are there current polls that show their ranking by registered voters? I don’t want to waste my vote, we need him O.U.T. Much obliged if someone can help me understand how to navigate through all these great candidates.

Today was the deadline for the whitehouse to issue the russian sanctions.

I’m sure we won’t hear a peep about it.

Bloomberg: Trump Chief of Staff John Kelly held separate meetings or phone calls with senior Justice Department officials last Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to convey Trump’s displeasure and lecture them on the White House’s expectations. Kelly has taken to ending such conversations with a disclaimer that the White House isn’t expecting officials to do anything illegal or unethical.

Kelley is doing Trump’s bidding. He’s part of the Executive branch

BUT QUESTION: Why all the pressure, especially from the House leadership and the Intel Committee, to defuse, derail or destroy the FBI and the Mueller investigation?

It can’t be because they [italic] need [/italic] Trump. If he’s impeached, Pence or the new VP or Ryan will sign whatever they pass. Their willingness to run roughshod over protocol and to risk burning down the constitutional barn has got to be for something bigger.

My guess is they know/fear that Mueller has unearthed Republican leadership complicity, and some members’ direct involvement, in the receipt of laundered, campaign contributions from foreign enemies.

The President’s party in power normally loses seats at the first midterm. Trump’s unpopularity suggests that loss may be larger than normal. Still, given gerrymandering in the Republican Party’s favor, they probably hope to hold the losses down in 2018 and probably recover their hold on power in 2020.

But ... if it turns out that the Republicans not only suffer midterm losses, but are revealed by the (generally very conservative) FBI to have been scheming with our foreign enemies to win the last House elections . . . well, if that’s the case, the Republican brand might join the Whigs.

All these guys who’ve spent the last dozen years dialing for dollars and sucking up to businesses, in expectation of grabbing $1,000,000 lobbyiing and think tank slots when they leave, would suddenly find they can’t even land jobs as advisors to the dogcatcher (not to mention the prospect of jail time).

What else could explain their hysteria?

CNN'a Jake Tapper has on Matt Gaetz spouting his undermining of the Mueller investigation and the FBI. Why that multiple DUIs recipient that daddy took care of is given a stage for his agenda? Ryan put him on the House Judiciary Committee.

CNN is the worst for that shit...and rarely do they call them out on it......

[quote] Trump Chief of Staff John Kelly held separate meetings or phone calls with senior Justice Department officials last Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to convey Trump’s displeasure and lecture them on the White House’s expectations. Kelly has taken to ending such conversations with a disclaimer that the White House isn’t expecting officials to do anything illegal or unethical.

I no longer look at the history of the Nazi Germany and wonder how it could happen. It's happening.

Dont worry r344....if it ever comes to that, there will be rogue patriots/citizens who will take them out.

R344 If protecting Baby Trump is their only goal over everything, then they are indeed as evil as the Nazi.

Certain Republican Congressmen appear to be coordinating their messaging and timing with Russian-bots to undermine the U.S. intelligence services and the Mueller investigation.

Treason and obstruction of justice is essentially in the open with them.

Dont think that it hasnt come to Muellers attention......I just cant believe theyre stupid enough to risk obstruction and conspiracy charges.

I think another reason is the 36% of people who approve of Trump are the Republican party loyalists. Trump is the Republican Party. If he goes they go too.

[quote]The current FBI director, Wray, threatened to resign if McCabe was forced to step down, so we'll see what happens with him.

Plot twist!

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1

FBI Director Christopher Wray put pressure on Andrew McCabe to step aside after months of criticism from Trump, NYT reports.

Ya think?

@kylegriffin

Jeffrey Toobin now says he regrets his role in pushing a "false equivalency" between Clinton and Trump: "Every time we said something, pointed out something about Donald Trump... we felt like, 'Oh, we gotta ... say something bad about Hillary.'"

R348 Trump has crossed the lines over and over, and he gets rewarded for it by his party working harder to cover up for him. This is how fascism grows by twisting reality for the sake of "dear leader".

Dutch banks and the Dutch government have been going through major "denial of service" cyberattacks today.

[quote]FBI Director Christopher Wray put pressure on Andrew McCabe to step aside after months of criticism from Trump, NYT reports.

Is someone blackmailing Wray?

I mean at this point nothing sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory anymore.

Interesting news about the options available to Mueller. Nobody is quite sure whether he can indict a sitting President, as there has been no case law on this. And if he cannot, he may or may not even be able to recommend impeachment, as it looks like he may need Justice Department approval, specifically Rosenstein, to sign off.

[quote]At the heart of the issue are limits on the powers of the special counsel. Many legal scholars believe a sitting president can’t be criminally indicted, meaning that if Mueller finds evidence of crimes by Trump, his strongest recourse might well be to make a referral to Congress for potential impeachment proceedings. But some of those experts tell TPM that under the regulation governing the special counsel’s office, Mueller lacks the authority to make that referral without approval from Justice Department officials overseeing his investigation.

If Trump fires Rosenstein and replaces him with a loyalist (which of course he would do), that loyalist would decide whether to refer the results of the investigation to Congress. If they say no, that may well be it, unless there is sufficient public outcry or until the Democrats regain control of Congress.

If Trump terminated Mueller, do you think that would spark non-violent street protests?

I am not referencing #MeToo marches, but impromptu protests against Trump and Congress. I am suprised some public action has not already been undertaken. Congressmen need to feel the heat somehow..

Are you kidding, R357? There will be *violent* street protests!

The Republicans just voted to release the nunes memo and conceal the Democratic memo. They want to conceal the true facts. Party line vote. The Republicans are now investigating the FBI and Justice Dept. FBI asked to explain memos to Congress - Republicans said no.

Congrats Russia!

Trump's time is running out. That's why there is desperation in the air. He never had majority popular support in the country, and the GOP is losing ground day by day. They are stupid if they think any manufactured memo or firing Mueller will stop the tide against them. It just makes them look more guilty.

Someone needs to leave the real FBI memo — Anonymous, do your job!

CIA, get the fuck on with it.

I cannot believe the Dutch are getting a denial of service cyberattack today for exposing Russian hacking.

Trump needs to go down.

Mercers, Kochs, Murdoch and Putin sure like this.

[quote] The CIA oath reads: “I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Someone sitting in a basement room in Langley needs to do what they swore to do and leak everything.

Uh Oh, shot is getting deep. Why are they after Rosenstein? He's the ONE that would have to sign off on impreachment charges

[quote]The Republicans just voted to release the nunes memo and conceal the Democratic memo

Trump now has five days to decide if he will allow the memo to be released. (Spoiler alert: he’s already said he will.)

Ted Lieu @tedlieu

As a Member of the House Judiciary Committee, I read the partisan, classified Nunes House Intel memo. I can't talk about it. However, here's an analogy.

Remember Geraldo Rivera and the infamous Mystery of Al Capone's Vaults? It's like that, but Geraldo Rivera has more integrity.

Good one Ted Lieu!

Ted is a hoot! Long live Ted lieu!

The sheer truculence of the GOP and the West Wing to lie and deny without a moments thought to repercussions leads me to believe that they know the vote will be hacked fully in their favor in 2018

Marry me, Ted.

The fact that Republicans are desperately trying to discredit the justice department makes it plainly obvious that they know what's coming and that they are planning to use the whole "FBI is biased!!!!!" excuse as a reason not to act.

Politico: The Trump admin has notified Congress that last year’s bipartisan Russia sanctions bill is serving as a “deterrent” and as such, specific sanctions aren’t needed at this time.

Ho Lee Fuk

But it was a law that passed. Not a suggestion.

What. The. Fuck. Is. Happening?!?

Epublican Richard W. Painter:

If during the Cold War Congress has behaved this way — releasing classified information to score political points and to attack the FBI —we would all be speaking Russian by now.

Well, you knew that Trump wouldn't impose more sanctions on Russia. So handy that the memo vote happened today so that the media wouldn't notice the stuff about no sanctions. But I'm sure that was just a coincidence.

It's really time for foreign allies of the US to start spilling all the information they have on Trump's corruption because clearly the GOP aren't going to do anything.

Is there a link re the Russian sanctions? I went to Politico and couldn’t find anything.

@NatashaBertrand

Just today: Trump admin declined to impose new Russia sanctions, a top FBI official probing Trump&Russia was forced out, and House Intel R's voted to release a classified memo that purports to undermine Russia probe. Also, DOJ/FBI are officially under investigation by HPSCI R's

R380 Political theater for their "base". To the rest of world, all of this just shows how guilty they are.

Not yet up on Politico, tweeted by a Politico reporter:

Remember this day. Today, it is no longer about Trump. It’s about Ryan and McConnell and Nunes and all the traitors on the right subverting justice and dismantling democracy to support their criminal puppet president. They have to go. They can no longer be tolerated.

The whole GOP needs to go. The sooner the better. I fear at the midterm elections it will be too late.

Chris Matthews calling this a “slow-motion Saturday Night Massacre.” Says Trump is successfully purging law enforcement—with the help of the GOP.

The House Intelligence Committee was suppose to investigate the Russian intrusion which is still going on bigtime. Instead of Russia, they are investigating the FBI and DOJ. Terrible!

Republicans are playing 'the Empire Strikes Back' card.

Mueller needs to announce some fresh indictments. Jared and Junior come to mind.

R386 Anything to protest Baby Trump! This will not end well!

I am so fucking angry right now.

R388 I meant *protect* Baby Trump, of course.

One day (sooner rather than later, at this rate), history should consider the question: why were American representatives so determined to undo the integrity of their country?

More info on the rules about FISA warrants and how Trump and his supporters have this badly wrong. Last paragraph:

[quote]In short, the FISA warrant process is designed to protect against the very abuse of power that the President has accused his predecessor of exercising. You could even say that FISA applications go through an “extreme vetting” process before being granted – something that the Trump administration ought to support.

Baba Vanga, the Nostradamus of the Balkans, predicted that the last POTUS would be #44, and he would ne African American. All the shit that the GOP and puppet Trump are doing, gives me the uneasy feeling that the prophet (who died in the mid 1990s) may have predicted correctly. I am, by nature, somewhat skeptical, but the GOP and the Trump crime family are seemingly directing this country towards a totalitarian regime where the GOP is the ONLY party, and fair elections will be nonexistent. They used the election of GWB over Gore (who should have won the election) as the litmus test, which came into fruition with the illegal election of Trump through Russian collusion. They are all fucking traitors and THEIR HEADS SHOULD ROLL!

A good point was just brought up on Chris Hayes, Deep Throat from Watergate was a pissed off FBI agent. I'm hoping there will be at least one deep throat just waiting to the Washington Post this round

This isn't only about the corrupt GOP colluding with Russia all to protect Trump. It's not only about Trump. He's a figurehead. He's the only one who thinks he's in charge. This is much bigger. Putin and the Oligarchs and I include the Kochs & the Mercers in that group, are not going to go quietly. They are not giving up their power positions. We have a real fight on our hand and I really think something drastic needs to happen as soon as possible. We are still plying by the rules and following the letter and the SPIRIT of the law. They are not. They are lawless and manipulate rules and technicalities to serve their own purposes. They are too close to realizing their goals to give up without something real bad happening. I think the Media needs to go balls to the wall on this. They need to hype the outrage and make it possible for Nunes and everyone connected to this

I don't trust the new York Times on this stuff. There's something fishy. I'll wait to see if the Post or Bloomberg corroborate it.

Chris Hayes @chrislhayes

Increasingly sure we're not getting to other side of this without some kind of genunine constitutional crisis in where it's an open question which institutions hold.

Why the fuck can't someone go to court to stop the fuckers from releasing the fucking Meo? Why the fuck can't someone go to court to stop the POTUS from firing Rosenstein and derailing a wholly legal and proper investigation. When Watergate was going on all those fuckers were in court all the time.

Trump isn't smart enough to figure out all these intricacies of the law and I want to know who is advising him on these tactics. because this is a far cry from the bumbling Ty Cobb legal services.

He’s going to get away with it, isn’t he?

R400 That's always the way with con men... They get away with it until they don't. Just ask Madoff.

I honestly couldn’t give a shit about their meaningless memo. Anyone with half a brain cell will see right through it. Everyone else (ie Trump's base) will find yet another reason to stoke their mindless hysteria.

I am, however, pissed about the suppressing of the Democratic memo that refutes it. And I’m pissed about their attempts to get Rosenstein out. And I’m INCREDIBLY pissed about Trump's refusal to implement the Russian sanctions. It’s the fucking law. Are people really going to give him a pass on a clear violation of his duties like this? The Republican congress passed those sanctions. What happened between now and then?

WTF are the aggressive defiant in your face people who fight this bullshit??? I'm talking about when Nixon was President they weren't intimidated by Nixon's White House. We need to see people fighting back. What I'm asking is what are Rosenstein's options? Because the Nunes crowd are hanging their hats on the fact that Rosenstein approved and EXTENSION of an already approved FISA warrant on Carter Page. There was a need to continue watching hi because there was evidence he was a foreign agent. All Rosenstein did was renew something already approved by a judge in the previous administration. What he did was routine and proper. If this is all they have this is like the unmasking bullshit they tried to go after Susan Rice with. I certainly hope people are talking to other people behind the scenes who can exert pressure where it's necessary.

r402 clearly an ultimatum from Putin happened. It's called Kompramat.

Their Bullshit memo doesn't bother me, but the BS investigation into the FBI and DOJ really worries me. Does this mean they can go digging into the evidence in the case? They are essentially removing the barriers for independence as well.

He will get away with it because there is no one in power to stop him. He has complete power.

Requires public protests. Massive and loud,

I need to hurry up and renew my passport. I just hope I haven't waited too long.

I wish these goddamn hosts on CNN would for once turn to that asshole Jack Kingston and ask if he should really be commenting on any of this considering he traveled to Russia for Trump after the election and could actually be a target in Mueller's investigation.

Jill Winebanks on MSNBC is saying that what's worse is the House Intel denying the Dems the opportunity to release their own memo. So my question is, why can't some enterprising staffer from the Dem's ide go ahead and leak the fucking Democratic memoe that refutes the Republican Nunes memo. I think a Democratic Congressmen ought to release the fucking memo in defiance of the GOP. Feinstein did it. Shit. Let's go people. Time to fight.

I'm a Jew so please don't any Jews or anyone else be offended by this comment, but rounding up the Trump Republicans and throwing them into gas chambers doesn't seem like such a bad idea to me right now.

You know, the people out here, the voters, etc. would be outraged and ready to fight back if they could see some of these elected punk assed mealy mouth jerks get off their asses and raise some hell. Diane Feinstein became an instant hero because she stood up and defied them.

Adam Schiff needs to stop appearing before the cameras and "explaining " things talking about how bad this shit is, and kick some ass instead. I'm tired of him.

Adam Schiff comes off to wimpy and frankly too lawyerly, he needs to show some backbone already.

[quote] Baba Vanga, the Nostradamus of the Balkans, predicted that the last POTUS would be #44, and he would ne African American. All the shit that the GOP and puppet Trump are doing, gives me the uneasy feeling that the prophet (who died in the mid 1990s) may have predicted correctly.

She was a semi-literate Russian. I think all her "prophecies" are BS, part of Putin's propaganda mind game bot-machine on Western social media.

What do you expect a minority member to do on a committee? Schiff is keeping all of us informed.

He is doing a great job.

He needs to leak the other memo.

Ted Lieu‏ @tedlieu

I read the Democratic House Intel memo. It OBLITERATES the #NunesMemo. How can you tell? Because the Republicans won't release the Democratic memo.

The Democrats should stop being pushovers who do everything the Republicans say when they raise their voice. Leak the memos. Leak the Democratic one, or ones, now so the Republican will be put in right wing propaganda context right from the start. The Democratic Party should control the narrative and not let the Republican Party control it. The Republicans will scream bloody murder anyway (even if they released theirs first).

We’re living in a genuinely distressing time.

The silver lining, looks like Chris Wray is playing chess while Cheeto plays checkers....

Of course it gets tense like hell. Trump and the GOP are not giving up without a fight. It only shows that they are desperate.

The Democratic minority Memo will be forwarded to the Senate Intel Committee. They may release it, perhaps after DOJ clears it. The Senate Committee is less partisan operationally.

[quote]The silver lining, looks like Chris Wray is playing chess while Cheeto plays checkers….

While The Russians have always been Grandmasters. They still tell Trump he's a King, and to act like one.

Nunes and the rest, Sessions, etc. these people really are not very bright. And they are playing to a very particular base. They live in a bubble. So while the media is hyping the hell out of this memo, and it is a big deal when there is a genuine risk of exposing some of the methods and sources used to develop classified information, Nunes & company are not going to win this.

If the Dems and the Media handle this correctly the focus should be on Nunes, and Carter Page, not Rosenstein. I agree, Dems should release their Memo without any vetting. I had to laugh at the simplistic theory Ron Klain, came up with. I like Ron but he was not on his game when he said the WH "must have doubts" because they are delaying releasing the Nunes memo.

But I'm certain the White House is simply holding Nunes' memo until after the SOTU because they don't want to step on Trump's speech tonight. It's Tuesday. By Thursday the White House will allow it to be released. If I were the Dems I would release the Memo today and step all over his SOTU. In fact today or tonight right after SOTU, so tomorrow' news cycles will not talk about Trump as much as they talk about Nunes. Media needs to shine spotlight on Nunes too. And they need to keep shining it.

I have to guess that Trump is getting some tactical and legal advice from people like Giuliani, Christie and Dershowitz, because Trump & his Shithouse lawyers wouldn't come up with a "clean way" to get rid of McCabe and then Rosenstein on their own. But these are tactical moves and in the long run won't help him and it's not going to shut down the investigation. Mueller is smarter and you better believe he has anticipated the Trump tactics and will be able to handle them. As the noose tightens on the top players they are getting desperate. So they'll do what they can.

Hope you're right, r425

[quote] If the Dems and the Media handle this correctly

And therein lies the problem -- the Dems and the media NEVER handle anything correctly!

Such a win-win.

Nunes going to extraordinary lengths to "protect" Carter Page; fits the rumors going around G-town.

Mr. David Bowdich, our new deputy FBI director, is a Mueller acolyte. He is also quite easy on the eyes.

R430: THAT'S easy on the eyes?!

So is the insufferable Nunes up for elimination come November?

r432.....yes

Nunes is in red part of CA, but he's got a GREAT dem challenger currently within 5 points of beating him. He's not letting up on Nunes as a Trump water boy either

I keep wondering what people like Nunes are thinking. If it were me I'd be concerned that doing all this shit would put me on Mueller's radar.

Maybe he's aware that he's already being looked in to and he's trying to cut it off... but I wouldn't risk it.

[quote]So is the insufferable Nunes up for elimination come November?

Isn't his District full of Deplorables?

[quote]Nunes is in red part of CA, but he's got a GREAT dem challenger currently within 5 points of beating him. He's not letting up on Nunes as a Trump water boy either

Really? Who is it?

An op-ed of beauty, "A Conspiracy of Dunces."

[quote]Secret societies, government agents of dubious loyalties, dark cabals who work from shadowy bureaucracies seeking to overthrow the president of the United States, sinister masterminds exercising fell powers to serve a diabolical conspiracy, occult powers that shift the levers of control in mysterious ways—no, it’s not X-Files fan fiction or some modern-day Lovecraft reboot. It’s today’s GOP.

[quote]The Republican Party’s head first dive into breathless conspiratorial fantasies in defense of Donald Trump is a brand-defining moment as the Party of Lincoln morphs into the Party of LaRouche. Listening as members of Congress, the Fox/talk-radio world and the constellation of batshit crazy people drawn to Esoteric Trumpism adopt increasingly baroque theories to protect The Donald isn’t just depressing, it’s tragic. A diseased slurry of fake news, post-Truth Trumpism and Russkie agitprop infects the Republican Party. It’s an Ebola of wild-eyed MK-ULTRA paranoiac raving, spreading to every organ of the Republican body politic. This loon-centric new world of crazy talk has dissolved the old ideological skeleton of the GOP and reduced it from the Conservative Party of Ideas to the Crackpot Party of Infowars.

More at the link. Well worth a minute of your time.

Nunes will have plenty of Koch money for re-election. Kochs already pouring 450 million into Republican Congressional campaigns for '18.

Add Rebekah Mercer money and others, they will have record funds for campaigns and pacs.

Rick Wilson? LOVE HUH.

Nunes Challenger

OK. I've altered my position slightly. I want to get analytical here and you tell me what you think:

I was one who insisted the Dems ought to pre-empt the POTUS and release their own memo. But now I want to consider the risks.Here's why: Strategically the Dems ought to release their memo first, but after reading the Washington Post article this morning, it gives better context and perspective.

Schiff said the concerns about national security are very real. They involve "sources and methods " of trade craft, and even more important, publicizing the memo would endanger our sources and cause a massive disruption in our ability to get and share information with our allies. This is important because it goes to the heart of broader national security concerns. They would stop sharing stuff with us & cooperating with us.

In fact Schiff, in so many words makes a pretty clear case for treason. Endangering our broader national security concerns. Of course the PR risk of not releasing our memo first is that we are simply a rebuttal and will not get the kind of attention the one who is first out the gate gets. Right now the Post is saying this has been removed from the Justice Department's review process and will be reviewed by "national security " people for the POTUS.

I'm hoping someone high up like McMasters or even Pompeo will pull Trump away from this, and stop the release, but I am betting Trump really wants to release the memo. He and Roger Stone et al have actually built a fucking campaign around it with the help of the Freedom Caucus (tea PArty) of the GOP going all over the media screaming #releasethememo, etc.

So it seems Trump has a three options: (1) Don't release it, and blame CIA/Pompeo. (2) Trump can pretend he's responsible and redact some of the memo to show he is only going to release the parts that show how bad the FBI is. (3) release the whole damned memo a couple days after the SOTU and tell us all to go fuck ourselves.

If Trump releases a redacted version for appearances sake, he can claim they allayed the concerns about national security. Or will Trump just release it and say fuck you. Because if he does release it intact with no redactions, it will hep his BFF Russia/Putin enormously. It will expose the entire international intelligence network to Russia, and will actually come from the POTUS of the United States. A very shameful, dangerous, Treasonable offense.

My guess is Trump will release it intact. I'm thinking the Dems ought to delay their version. Or at least scrub it so they don't fuck with national security concerns. Then release it ahead of the GOP. They can then claim Nunes' memo is largely fiction....which is probably true...in some respects.

R441 he will release it in full in my opinion. The shit is REAL and hitting the fan. These people are going to leave claw marks all over the White House, it’s going to be baaaaad and ugly.

Freedom Caucus = Russian enablers

Shame on Paul Ryan.

I just had an epiphany on that thread about how to deal with Republicans. So many posters keep saying most of the Repubs they know hate him too (they believe in his “policies” lol). So, if we didn’t have Fox/Brietbart, NONE of this would have worked. It STILL feels surreal that this is happening!!!

It's past time to go after Nunes. Nunes believes, even more than Trump believes it, that by attacking the FBI and going to war with the Justice department, he has rendered himself "bullet proof." If the FBI were to investigate him....or maybe they are already investigating Nunes, he can claim it's a perfect example of what he is accusing them of:Politically motivated.

I think Nunes' zeal is, in part, because he is dirty and he thinks the best defense is a good offense, just like Trump. So bombard the media with requests to investigate Nunes. By that I mean a huge expose' on Nunes. Go after his bank accounts and investigate him, Steele Dossier style. There have to be some investigative reporters out here that would love to take on Devin Nunes. Oh, and add Paul ryan to that mix. Shine the media spotlight on them.

Phase two: Bombard the AG in California to investigate Nunes. And publicly announce it. Because you know he has been involved in something illegal out there. If the Attorney General of Ca were to open a criminal investigation into Nunes they'd find something. Third, let's have the IRS start looking at his income tax returns.

Because he definitely has Russian business partners for his "vineyards." and if money laundering is a Russian thing he has to be neck deep in it. OTOH, maybe a headline or two asking the question"Is Devin Nunes involved in Money laundering" a good way to proceed. In short, I'm saying let's give Nunes the full Hillary Clinton treatment.

What strikes me as odd, is that we all know staff working on committees leak constantly. But where are the staffers who will leak shit on Ryan and Nunes? They may have the loyalty of their immediate staff, but they serve on bi partisan committees, and staff always knows the gossip. So where the fuck is it? We need to be fighting and resisting on all fronts and I'm not seeing enough of it. Ryan Nunes and the corrupt bastards need to be exposed.

Doesn't look good for the Dems, girls. Back to the drawing board. You've been outwitted by far smarter, sharper people than you can ever dream to be.

LOL... Well, it looks like we can definitely exclude you from the list of "far smarter, sharper people," r446.

CNN is giving a lot of air time to these Republicans behind Nunes and Trump. The questions are softball; essentially hearing the talking points.

Then later, those absurd debate panels.

R446 Republicans control the three branches of government, and still require Russians to prevail in chaos.

Trump 2020 would be another theft. Congrat Putty.

Sound familiar? "From the Czech Republic, a warning for our midterms: The Russians are still meddling"

[quote]The outcome of the Czech election is a setback for the West and its supporters in the country, but as important, it is evidence that the Putin regime has not restrained its efforts to subvert Western democracies through disinformation and corruption, despite increasing exposure of the operations and sanctions imposed following the 2016 U.S. election. The Czech case is one more warning that Moscow can be expected to target the upcoming U.S. midterms — and that, to date, the Trump administration has done next to nothing to defend the American electoral system.

FBI has another dossier which independently confirms the Steele one

I don't get why the democrats need republican permission to release a rebuttal to the Nunes memo. From what I'm reading, the Nunes memo is simply a bunch of opinions made to look like facts about Rosenstein continuing to approve FISA surveillance of Carter Page. It's pretty clear that 1) Carter Page was working with the Russians and had been for a number of years and has been on the IC radar for as long and 2) He was a member of the Trump Campaign - listed as one of their chief foreign policy advisors. I'd hope to hell the Rosenstein would continue to monitor his every move. It is the right thing to do. If the republicans publish their memo, why can't the democrats simply release their response to it? Take it off House Intelligence Committee stationary and publish it as a rebuttal from the democratic representatives who happen to sit on the House Intelligence Committee and anyone else that wants to sign it. If there is anything classified or dangerous, the republican memo has already breached that wall. What's the big fucking deal other than playing politics. I'm tired of playing politics, the democrats need to start playing by the same rules as the republicans. In essence, the democrats are trying to save democracy and the future of our country and need to start behaving like it matters.

And why does it matter who paid for the Steele Dossier? What matters is whether or not it is true. The same goes for the Shearer Dossier which is making news today. What matters is whether it is accurate or not.

The republicans paid for the Steele doss FIRST.

but cnn is either ignorant or the corporations have bought in to the new world order. They have a lot to gain.

You should have watched CNN last night. They were tearing Trump a new asshole.

R453, it doesn't. But in Trump-land it does. In Trump-land it comes from somebody he's said is his enemy by default, therefore the facts are fake by default and cooked by secret "deep state" cabals just to topple the completely innocent and fighting for the common man Cheeto. It's an ages old move.

[quote]She was a semi-literate Russian. I think all her "prophecies" are BS, part of Putin's propaganda mind game bot-machine on Western social media.

She was from the Balkans, and died years ago.

[quote] Kelly has taken to ending such conversations with a disclaimer that the White House isn’t expecting officials to do anything illegal or unethical.

LOL! He's clearly not a lawyer if he thinks that little mantra will absolve him of crimes if the rest of his conversations show evidence of illegal or unethical conduct.

That's as worthless as those disclaimers by a parking garage that say "We are not responsible for damage to your car" while they hire attendants with drunk driving records.

Oh noooos, not my little heavenly slice of pumpkin pie, Carter Page. He couldn’t possibly part of these dastardly deeds. (I’ll bet he and Roger Stone shag each other, vile people)

Carter "Ma! He's Making Eyes At ME" Page needs to go on Chris Hayes again, ASAP!

[quote]LOL! He's clearly not a lawyer if he thinks that little mantra will absolve him of crimes if the rest of his conversations show evidence of illegal or unethical conduct.

Clearly they were just "spitballing"! /s

Sources say that Trump has adopted a two-track strategy to deal with the Mueller investigation.

One is an un-Trumpian passivity and trust. He keeps telling some in his circle that Mueller — any day now — will tell him he is off the hook for any charge of collusion with the Russians or obstruction of justice.

But Trump — who trusts no one, or at least no one for long — has now decided that he must have an alternative strategy that does not involve having Justice Department officials fire Mueller.

As is now becoming plain, the Trump strategy is to discredit the investigation and the FBI without officially removing the leadership. Trump is even talking to friends about the possibility of asking Attorney General Jeff Sessions to consider prosecuting Mueller and his team.

All Trump has to do is let Mueller do his job, present his findings to his superior and that superior takes those findings and does nothing with them and threatens to fire Mueller if he steps out of line. The media will declare it was a whole big "Nothingburger" and it's finally time to investigate Hillary's Emails to give the base something to be exited and riled up about.

The thing that haunts me most right now is Republicans are acting like people who aren't afraid of mid-terms. All polls point to a blood bath and yet they aren't worried. Yeah, some are retiring, but others are going full treason and don't seem to fear facing voters. Yes, we should organize and get out the vote, but the Russians are still meddling, we've done nothing to stop them and our voting machines are not secure.

The thing that gives me comfort is that Trump seems to think the FBI will just allow itself to be destroyed. They won't. And these are people who know all his secrets.

R463: I keep saying the same thing! People are saying "vote vote vote" and I will always. However, I believe the GOP/Trump already have the fix in and that is why they are acting like treasonous shits. They know there will be no consequences and they will keep their jobs.

Do we not have any anti-hackers? Surely the US employs some of their own?

Kelly has turned out to be disappointing with his tactics.

I know the UK does, R465, because I know someone who is employed that way, but I don't know about the U.S.

I have believed this for months R 464. I believevwe are already in the arms of a dictatorship. Why else go through the trouble of changing the very structure of our government institutions, like Dept. Of. Ed., Environment, Health and Human Services. They are creating an entirely different landscape.

Miss Lindsey is doing the middle-of-the-road routine again. When you think she's about to say 'enough is enough', she slides back.

So few people seem to be asking the $64K Question: if he's not cool with Mueller, then what is this motherfucker hiding?

R470: Stupid deplorables - maybe not.

Everyone else is either asking that question or know the answer and trying to protect and deflect.

Regarding the mid-term elections. Can't the UN impose some sort of independent council to oversee the election (aka forming an anti hacking task force)? Would the GOP run government just refuse to comply?

[quote]Do we not have any anti-hackers? Surely the US employs some of their own?

The articles about Dutch intelligence accessing Russian hacking groups during the 2016 election (see below) highlight the efforts by US "white hat" hackers to fight off a hacking infiltration of the State Dept. They had a tip from the Dutch so they were ready to fight off the hackers when they made their attack.

R472 No way. The US has always thought itself above the UN. The UN is just a tool for the US to impose its will on lesser states.

R472: No. Yes.

We are watching Trump/GOP/Russia destroy our country within and without and there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done to stop it! Voting may not work. FBI/DOJ/Mueller are being undermined daily. Dems in Congress and Senate are complaining but have zero power to DO anything!

Rachel last night was....depressing.

I can normally count on her to put a chipper face on all the Russian mishegas. But she concluded her a-block segment last night by saying (paraphrasing), "people put themselves at enormous risk to obstruct justice for a very good reason - sometimes it works. And as of tonight, it's working."

What exactly was she referring to? ^

[quote]What exactly was she referring to? ^

Shoving out McCabe, the House investigation of the FBI, attacks against Rosenstein, President Shithole's obsession with Mueller.

R478 And the refusal to impose sanction on Russia. All point to his guilt in being compromised by Russia.

Kyle Griffin Verified account @kylegriffin1

EPA Admin Scott Pruitt said in a 2016 interview that “Donald Trump in the White House would be more abusive to the Constitution than Barack Obama,” according to an audio recording released by an advocacy group, WaPo reports.

Gee, you tell us NOW Wapo?!?!???? Fuck you too.

I mean fuck the WaPo, not the poster

R480 How is that not obvious to any one with a brain? Trump has abused every position he has ever been in.

R476 I thought she was a bit depressing as well but we all have to remember that MSM has a desire to drag this out as long as they can. Trump daily news certainly gets more ratings than a sane Obama administration. Its one of the reasons why we have developed independent "citizen" journalists and why you have "former" journalists like Dan Rather making much more blatant statements than anything you'll hear on MSM.

Love to see something major drop about 2 hours before the SOTU address tonight. Now would be a good time.

Keep in mind what Pruitt used to be - an hired attack dog for the oil industry. So for Pruitt, constitutional abuse = real efforts to regulate industrial pollution.

Perhaps an arrest of Trump Jr. or Kushner. Just a suggestion...

Could Trump and Team know something we don’t? Like sealed indictments in place? Of his son and son in law? Seems like he’s in panic mode.

R481, reading comprehension? The tape was just released by that group to WaPo, WaPo didn't sit on it.

[quote]according to an audio recording released Tuesday by an advocacy group,

More fodder for Republicans: The Justice Department’s inspector general has been focused for months on why Andrew McCabe, as the No. 2 official at the FBI, appeared not to act for about three weeks on a request to examine a batch of Hillary Clinton-related emails found in the latter stages of the 2016 election campaign, according to people familiar with the matter.

The inspector general, Michael E. Horowitz, has been asking witnesses why FBI leadership seemed unwilling to move forward on the examination of emails found on the laptop of former congressman Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.) until late October — about three weeks after first being alerted to the issue, according to these people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive matter.

A key question of the internal investigation is whether McCabe or anyone else at the FBI wanted to avoid taking action on the laptop findings until after the Nov. 8 election, these people said. It is unclear whether the inspector general has reached any conclusions on that point.

Yes reading comprehension issues, I’m overwhelmed and upset. Aren’t you?

What does Seth Abramson say?

Trump's SOU Address is said to be an hour long and I don't think there's any way he can read for that long. I am hoping that he goes off script and incriminates himself. It's full moon eve, anything is possible. I'm trying to cheer myself up.

What are you all doing to not give up all hope completely that they'll nail these assholes?

Because I'm getting to the point where I just feel like they're going to get away with all of it.

Seth is shitting himself too.

I’m giving up hope as of last night. Regarding Mueller I mean.

Puhleeeze, cheeto is going to get so bored by the 10 minutes mark, he'll start screaming lock her up and then screaming about Mexico paying for the wall

Yeah, Abramson sounds as desperate as the rest of us:

"Will someone please just let us know which corporate interests Trump has to offend for Republicans to finally do even the first thing about his lawlessness? Which multinational conglomerate or lobbyist bloc does he have to annoy to finally face consequences for betraying America?"

This is a watershed moment in the history of the United States. You will be spoon-fed pablum tonight - I hope you will throw it across the room.

R498 And some pundit will say Trump is "presidential"! After a year of watching amateur hour at the WH, they will still say that with a straight face. That's the definition of "fascist news".

It's been clear for months that the only thing is to sweep the midterms. Not only Congress but any local and state races too. Despite the thread of hacking and voter suppression, let's not lose sight of the goal.

No to the Banana Republican Party.

R499 I was thinking the same thing. If I hear one pundit say, "This is the beginning of the Trump presidency" or "This is Trump at his most presidential" I will throw something at the screen.

R500 is preaching truth. Just buck up bitches, this is WAR.

I don't think the fucker can read and stand for an hour. He gets through hour long campaign speeches by going off script and playing to his wildly cheering base. He draws energy from the crowd. Ain't gonna have that tonight with polite responses from the republicans. I hope all democrats sit stoically through the entire thing without clapping once. Actually, I wish they would all turn their back on him but that's asking too much of them.

The Dems should ALL REFUSE TO ATTEND.

Congresspersons with consciences like John Lewis are boycotting, R503.

My honest preference? Democrats interrupting to read to a microphone the Democrat Intel Memo that is being suppressed by Nunes (obstruction).

I REALLY think Dems need to read it all. What is the worst thing that can happen? They go to the clink clink?

....

I hope something happens soon. It's oddly quiet today. Where are Jared and Ivanka?

I just heard on the radio that NBC is reporting that Dump and the WH has been talking about prosecuting Mueller as a way to get rid of him. I'm mobile so can't do a search but it's in an article by Howard fineman which also disclosed that Dump confided that Manafort had info on him that could get him indicted.

I want all of the Dems to walk out on his speech. But not all at once. A few at a time, over the course of a half hour. So by the end, half the hall will be empty.

Trump would lose it.

Russia’s sanctioned spy chief recently visited the United States and reportedly met with CIA Director Mike Pompeo, Russian state media reported Tuesday.

Sergey Naryshkin, director of Russia’s foreign intelligence service, the SVR, was spotted aboard a commercial Aeroflot flight to the United States, Russian state-owned news channel Rossiya-1 reported. The SVR is blamed by the U.S. government for a key role in the Kremlin’s interference with the 2016 election. A reporter for the network said Naryshkin landed in New York and met with the CIA director.

Here R509

That's interesting R511. What purpose could the CIA have with meeting the Russian spy chief?

Wonder if they'll hype him up on coke or whatever his drug of choice is when he performs in public?

R513 How does that work? You would imagine that the IC community would be monitoring every move that the Russian spy chief takes while on US land. Would Pompeo tell them to turn off their surveillance while he was meeting with him? What about other international IC teams. Maybe our friends in The Netherlands have a recording of their meeting.

"What purpose could the CIA have with meeting the Russian spy chief?"

I'm guessing the CIA is just giving a report to their new bosses.

Mike Pompeo is a Trump acolyte and a traitor.....anyone who thinks a Trump appointee has the best interest of the US at heart is delusional.......and that goes for Wray also........

It really is a coup isn't it. Elected by a minority of the people. Supported by an even smaller minority. Doesn't have the interest of the people at the forefront of actions. Openly, colluding with the Russians on sanctions. Personally, gaining wealth through the office of the Presidency and at the same time doing everything it can to diminish the rule of law and the influence of a free press.

So if they manage to shut down the Mueller investigation I'm hoping for the mother of all intelligence dumps.

Every. Single. Messy. Piece.

......and dont forget.....after the inauguration last year, it was reported that Trump wanted our intelligence agencies to work with their Russian counterparts.......

How long before the hammer and sickle are flying instead of the stars and stripes?

Dems should walk out tonight. Quit following rules and norms because Republicans have decided we no longer have those. There's a fucking coup in progress and we're going to sit and listen to little Hitler give his speech? Fuck that. Walk out and find a camera and start breathing some fire.

And it's pretty terrifying Pompeo is meeting with that guy. Pompeo keeps saying Russia will meddle with elections and yet he does nothing to stop it. Trump also asked him at one point to call the media, after Pompeo was director, to tell media outlets Trump wasn't under investigation. And Pompeo did it. There was also a report a few months ago in which some agents said they don't trust this guy at all.

Pompeo said he knows Russia will meddle with elections but still thinks our elections will be free and fair. Huh?

CIA and the Russians officially cooperate on anti-terrorism. As for Pompeo, he's talked out of both sides of his mouth and he's a Trump guy. So no trust whatsoever in him.

To be truthful, there probably is a "Secret Society" in the FBI that is plotting how to overthrow Trump. They know the truth and have seen the evidence. They know he is in bed with Putin. If Mueller is shut down, then they will have to take matters into their own hands. If he goes after the FBI and DOJ through the House Intelligence Committee, it could get dangerous for our dear leader.

R523 Yes. He said they will meddle but we'll push back and it will be fine. Then he hosted Russia's sanctioned spy leader here on American soil. So.

Reuters is now reporting DNI Dan Coats was also at the meeting with Sergey Naryshkin.

Cotes is another one.....all one has to do is watch his Senate testimony and you have to wonder exactly who side is he on

We know Trump fires people who won't pledge fealty to him, so I assume all his appointees took the oath.

The Purge is now officially owned by GOP.

Paul Ryan calls to 'cleanse' the FBI, backs surveillance memo release

Meanwhile, it's corruption as usual in Trump Administration

Kyle GriffinVerified account @kylegriffin1

Trump’s top public health official, CDC Director Brenda Fitzgerald, bought shares in a tobacco company one month into her leadership of the agency charged with reducing tobacco use, Politico reports.

[quote]To be truthful, there probably is a "Secret Society" in the FBI that is plotting how to overthrow Trump.

There is a Secret Society... that plotted to get him elected. Hence, Hillary's fucking Emails again.

Thanks, Comey!

Will Gloria Borger of CNN say after the SOTU that Trump sounded "presidential"?

Then the debate panel.....

I may watch real cartoons instead. Maybe Family Guy.

The Republicans forced out John Boehner and replaced him with this Paul Ryan. The results have been horrible.

Well, obstruction of Justice for DJT, and love of Russia to the point of treason, is in vogue with that body.

[quote]What are you all doing to not give up all hope completely that they'll nail these assholes?

Everyone said early on that one of the tricks they'd use is fatigue. They'd work on bombarding everyone with crap everyday and just making them give up.

I'm afraid I'm about ready to give in to that fatigue. It really does fucking feel hopeless.

They're also ramping it up now because of the good (hopefully!) chance of Dem swing in the midterms.

They seem too shameless. Paul Ryan calling for the FBI to be "cleansed"? They're not even trying to hide themselves, something is not right.

Seriously are all these fuckers being blackmailed or were they all fucking Russian plants to start with?

Tonight .... State of the Soviet Union Address - as delivered by DJT

Well we know tonight he's going to get to scream about Fake News (since they had Stormy make that statement for a reason) so it's obvious they're going to ramp up the retarded voter base's mistrust so if anything comes out within the next few weeks they won't believe it.

Paul Ryan has hitched his wagon to Trump in hopes to get his dream, the "repeal without replacement" of Social Security. He doesn't care about FBI and probably hates the Comeys there because of letting HRC off the hook on the emails. He's a nasty spiteful fucker.

As far as I’m concerned, Paul Ryan is Public Enemy #1. A whole hell of a lot of this wouldn’t be happening if he had ANY loyalty at all to his country and the Constitution.

I want him either out of office or in a jail cell.

[quote]I want him either out of office or in a jail cell.

Jail cell would accomplish both those things... so let's go with that.

Imagine how smug Ryan will be during the State of the Shithole.

Sahil Kapur‏ @sahilkapur

The Senate just voted to confirm Trump's 13th U.S. appellate court judge — David Stras on the 8th Circuit.

POTUS and McConnell are reshaping the judiciary with young conservatives at a breakneck pace.

Ugh! WTF is Mueller waiting for!! The FBI/DOJ will be over, Rosenstein will be fired and Mueller will be fired (or undermined) before he even interviews Trump, Jt, and Kushner (the BIG 3)!!! If he has enough to take those fuckers down, he needs to get moving on it - FAST - before it is too late!

Don't get discouraged. And stop reading shit that's hyped and designed to induce panic. I'm not exhausted. I'm PISSED OFF. We have to fight this and that means turning up in overwhelming numbers at the polls, and hitting the streets and mobilizing for Indivisible and other groups whose aim is to run the GOP out of office in November.

Aside from that we need to bombard the media, individual reporters, and networks shows, and print people to start investigating Ryan. Start looking at hat can be done in the State AG's offices especially in NY to start indicting some of these people. I'd certainly be burning Eirc and Ivanka right now.

Focus on Congress too.Sitting members of Congress who either announced their retirement or are Dems. Let's put pressure on them. THe reason Ryan is smug is because he believes he has control of the votes in the House. But we can show him he may not. All we need is for 24 GOP members to cave in and work with us, and they can be pressured. We need to camp out at local Congressional offices and make their lives miserable. We should have town halls, embarrass them and create media incidents. I'm telling you as an old refugee from the 60's. Do not give an inch. Raise Hell. Be Relentless.

Interesting, and horrifying, twitter thread from Julian Sanchez, who is now thinking that Trump is even more dangerous now that he knows a bit more about the game. He came in thinking that people would do whatever he wanted. They didn't, so now he's cleaning them out and replacing them with people who will, aided and abetted by a compliant Congress.

[quote]This is the endgame. And it’s scary. Trump pretty clearly didn’t understand how things work when he first took office—was basically willing to appoint whomever the Federalist Society assured him was a competent lawyer—then fumed he couldn’t use DOJ as a hit squad.

[quote]Now he pretty clearly gets it. Expect leadership post-cleanse to be chosen with a lot more personal involvement, with personal loyalty & willingness to carry out orders as prime criteria.

[quote]By 2020, we won’t be seeing angry tweets impotently wondering why DOJ won’t investigate his Democratic opponents like Hannity says they should, because he’ll be a lot more careful about picking replacements who will.

[quote]A few weeks ago, the Wall Street Journal argued that fears of an autocratic Trump administration were overblown because, essentially, our institutions have checked Trump’s openly autocratic impulses.

[quote]And they weren’t totally wrong. But that was partly a lucky byproduct of Trump’s ignorance of how those institutions worked. He’s clearly been both surprised and frustrated to find that career Justice Department attorneys won’t automatically protect his friends & harass his foes.

[quote]Again, he gets it now. And I know some of this probably sounds like paranoid hyperbole — I wish it were — but this isn’t me just imagining the worst. This is what he openly says he wants DOJ and FBI to become. Repeatedly. He’s angry that it isn’t already.

More at the link.

R338, not sure if you'll see this, but at this point, the primary doesn't matter too much if you don't already have a favorite. The important thing is turning out to vote in the general for whoever the Dem is, whether you like them personally or not. That said, it's probably Mazeski's to lose. However, I personally would vote for Sean Casten because he's an engineer and we need STEM people in Congress. We have enough lawyers and "businessmen" already.

I hope Trump gets a bad case of the cramps during the SOTU from too much McD’s and has to go shit himself.

I wonder if he'll start slurring his words by the 10 minute work.

How many times will he sniffle?

*10 minute mark.

He's going to do fine because according to all the media reports, including the ones who hate him, he's winning. He got rid of McCabe, he has that Nunes Memo to make the case against Rosenstein, and he probably won't talk to Mueller now. He really has no fucks to give. So don't expect him to shit on himself tonight. However. Because he is Donald Trump he will make an ass of himself at some point. Count on it.he's getting the support he craves from Congress, and he will take credit for the Tax cuts, so he is in a great frame of mind right now tonight. He will probably release the Memo the Intel people are urging him not to release. But let's not get consumed by these petty maneuvers. Right now there is stuff going on behind the scenes we know nothing about. Do you really think we're the only ones outraged by his policies? There are a lot of influential ,powerful people out here in our country and around the world who really believe he is dangerous and evil. He is going down.

We can call them White supremacists, or Alt Right, or Religious Extremists, or WTF ever. They are in every country in the world too. And here in America, they are making what I call their last stand. The Obama PResidency was outrageous to them. They fear two things: Diveristy and Creeping Socialism. They are profiteers and racists and they hate the idea of unity among diverse ethnic groups ganging up on old white men, and they hate anything or anyone who threatens the pure capitalist Ayn Rand bullshit they embrace. So they are in their waning days and they're fighting hard. But it's a lost cause. They can't prevail against the tides of history . #RESIST

Bravo r553!

Let's be Mueller...

What the fuck goes through your head each time you hear about Dump and Nunes, etc. trying to discredit and drag you?

[quote] But not all at once.

Yes, all at once. Stand up, shout "You lie!" and walk out.

R553, this fight isn't about diversity or even racism, it's about rule of law and democracy.

Trump has more in common with Islamists ideologies and the Chinese love for authoritarianism than he has with Europe's enlightenment history and everything the modern world defines itself by.

[quote]What the fuck goes through your head each time you hear about Dump and Nunes, etc. trying to discredit and drag you?

Mueller is known to be pretty thorough so I would imagine that he has a contingency plan in place. He's also extremely smart so my hope is that this behavior tips him off to look in to what criminal things they (Nunes) has been up to.

The moment Trump moves to remove Mueller, the indictments will flow like Niagra. I would lead with Ivankie, Jr and Eric. Cut TrumpCo off at the feet.

The new thread, For Treasons Well Known To Them, is on its way!

It's already started.

Jumped the gun a little, didn't you?

Please don't start a new thread until the old one is completely finished.

I think the new one was started in case this one got maxed out in the middle of the night. I'm just glad you all are on top of keeping these threads alive.

Are the Republicans in Congress really acting like their are not going tonight be free and fair elections later this year? Every time someone says that, I become really frightened.

^ say again?

Sorry, R566. Autocorrect fail. Are the Republicans really acting like there aren’t going to be free and fair elections later this year? It’s something that folks have been pointing out on this thread and it’s making me very worried. Like, they know democracy is over so they don’t need to even pretend anymore.

Well a lot of them are choosing to retire instead of standing for re election so that tells me in each individual state we have different scenarios. We need to make sure in which ever state and county we live, we know the rules about registering and we repeatedly check to make sure we haven't been "accidentally" purged from the voting rolls. If we have been purged we re- register. Know what the deadlines are for registering, know where the polling places are, and make sure you pay attention to whether or not they have to switch a polling place to a new address at the last minute. Make sure you know what ID to bring with you. If the law says that you're not required to show ID, but the people in charge of the polling place ask for it, do not argue. Just show the fucking ID. You can file a complaint AFTER the votes are counted. If you vote absentee, make sure you fill out everything correctly seal it correctly and turn it in correctly. Don't allow them to throw a ballot out because it was "spoiled" or had some other "problem." Find out from your local Democratic party organization or some other GOTV entities, whether there is enough coverage of the count. In the past, and you can check the laws in your state, challengers had to be allowed to observe the count. They could not in any way interfere. Oh and lastly, make sure you know the phone numbers of local TV affiliates' news desks, and make sure you have the phone numbers of who to call if you see or experience problems voting. Leave no stone unturned. Never assume, "Oh, they wouldn't do that, would they?" Yes. They would. And any attempts to threaten or intimidate people in line to vote is completely illegal so if some Alt Right assholes show up, make sure you alert the media, the police and your local Democratic Party lawyers.

^It's also important to note that in a lot of circumstances if they're hassling you at the polling places and questioning whether or not you're "allowed" to vote... you can request a provisional ballot (which they have to give you) which allows you to still vote and will be counted once everything is cleared up.

My state has a disclaimer on their absentee ballots that I only just noticed the last time I voted.

It says that the signature must exactly match the signature on the form you signed to register to vote.

I registered years ago and have no idea what that signature looked like.

I see that the Russobots and the traitorous Log Cabinettes, and the shit-eating Earn a are put in force today. I don't have a membership to start a thread, but I wish someone would start one telling all of the above to EAT SHIT AND DIE, so their BULLSHIT won't keep stinking up DL!

Have you all noticed threads are getting shut down left and right. Something is afoot.

I wonder if Muriel can tell which posts are coming from Russian IP addresses....

like what kind of threads? Can you give one example?

I can tell r573.

But I don't bother.

How committed do you think I need to be to this fucking place?

Yes, one started with “Rep Joe. Kennedy...”. And now one, my DL won’t let me see it now so I don’t have the title, but about the SOTU, it is closed at I think 90 responses.

Link to the one that was just closed. The Kennedy one is dust in the wind no link.

The kennedy one was about him “drooling” and read like a GOP (or Russian) plant.

No, the thread that disappeared was roughly 175 posts. There were a TON of posters on their claiming the Kennedy’s took credit for all kinds of things they did not do (I’m not here to debate that). But the anti-K contingent was dominating, it seems like a Kennedy person asked to have it removed is what I’m saying. And now the other one too....whatever, let’s jusf keep each other in the loop.

[quote]How committed do you think I need to be to this fucking place?

Enough to not act as a pipeline for Russian disinformation?

We're witnessing a slow moving coup d'état, brought to us by thoroughly corrupt Republicans and a heinous orange turd fake president. The question is, will the good guys win or will the bad guys consolidate their power and turn this country into an oppressive dictatorship run by idiots. Never in my long life have I seen blind allegiance by American citizens to a fascist dictator. It's a shameful disgrace.

[quote]I don't have a membership to start a thread, but I wish someone would start one telling all of the above to EAT SHIT AND DIE, so their BULLSHIT won't keep stinking up DL!

You don't need to be a member to start a thread; you just need to have made enough posts/visits to meet the minimum threshold. However, that thread will be closed very quickly. It's been tried before and even if it isn't closed it wouldn't work. We have some very determined trolls.

R581 wins.

i don't have enough posts to do anything on my new laptop. Maybe never will since I usually read on my ipad. Bit yea you canstart a thread without paying dues.

Do dues payers get a membership card or pin? What does it look like? What SHOULD it look like?

You get a long ass ID number that you need to write down somewhere

[quote]I don't have a membership to start a thread, but I wish someone would start one telling all of the above to EAT SHIT AND DIE, so their BULLSHIT won't keep stinking up DL!

I don't see this comment on my feed. Is this a troll posting or someone telling the trolls to eat shit? What is it calling BS?

[quote]Do dues payers get a membership card or pin?

We get a link to Muriel's "private" pictures.

Never mind I saw it. My bad.

Rep. Jim Himes of Connecticut gives me a funny feeling down there.

Himes is nerd hot

I want to shower in the Congressional gym with Jim Himes, Eric Swalwell and Martin Heinrich.

Why dont you people include photos?

r592......Jim Himes

r592.....Eric Swalwell

r592......Martin Heinrich

Thanks, I'll pass!

I wouldn’t mind practicing my Heinrich maneuvers on Marty.

A few more posts and this thread can officially be closed out.

Use the link below for the new thread:

Thread closed.