STUDY: Effeminate gay men and bottoms elicit more disgust in straight people

In other case water is wet

Duh

God created male and female. They are to be distinct from each other. Men aren't to take on the look or appearance of a woman and vice versa.

Well, to be fair, I’m as gay as can be, but effeminate men also disgust me.

I'm also as gay as glitter, and I can't being in the company of effeminate men either.

They needed a study for this?

MORE disgust, which means that all gays elicit some level of disgust.

Uh, of course. I hear guys say all the time, “I don’t mind gays who act like regular dudes; it’s the one who act like females I can’t stand.”

Welcome R3 - I think Mother Goose and the Old Lady Who Lived in the Shoe had similar messages.

Well the ones who “act like females” are our brothers and sisters. They’re human just like everyone else. This is one masculine top who stands behind you—especially if you’ve got a nice ass.

A European study released today claims that “straight acting” men are less likely to experience homophobia than their “feminine acting” counterparts.

In fact, those polled who proclaimed themselves to be straight acting (56-percent) said they did not experience any negative interactions, while 25-percent who do not identify with that term say they have suffered homophobia in school.

The sampling consisted of 280 gay men from the United Kingdom and California.

Further, the study shows that self-identifying straight-acting gay males were also 37-percent more likely to agree with the statement, “‘Feminine gay men give gay men like me a bad reputation.”

The poll also indicated that of those who participated, 33-percent said that had experienced no prejudice based on their sexuality within the last five years, and 35-percent of the gay men said they identify more with the heterosexual community than with the gay community.

Those who identified as “straight acting,” also said that in addition to not experiencing homophobia they also felt that discrimination was less-likely to affect them, and did nothing to challenge homophobia if they encountered it.

In contrast, those who said they have experienced homophobia were more likely to advocate for change from within their group rather than remove themselves from it.

Cal Strode (above left) who compiled and wrote the report said that everyone strives for positive self-conception and people would like to believe that the groups in which they belong are positively distinctive from any others.

And if this is not the case some will migrate to other groups with a perceived higher status, while others will fight to make change from within.

"This certainly seems to chime with a lot of what we see in the gay community today,” Said Strode. “Feminine gay men are caught in the crossfire of a battle that self-described ‘straight acting’ gay men are having with themselves. The way gay men market themselves is more visible than ever before because of the rise of apps like Grindr. This brings things like femphobia to the surface, and we need to take every opportunity to challenge that.”

Polling more than 5,000 gay men last month, the U.K. magazine found that 71% of gay men have found themselves sexually turned off by a prospective partner because he showed signs of femininity. In fact, only 29% of those polled said they saw effeminate traits in men as a positive thing.

Taking it a step further, 41% affirmed that they believe effeminate gay men give the gay community a bad image or reputation, and 41% have also considered themselves “less of a man” because of their sexuality.

I'd gladly have sex with Jack McBrayer.

I'd like to take a baseball bat to Jack McFarland's skull. And everyone else on that show, too.

It's the fems who play it up like a minstrel. It's not honest and it's not genuine.

Pascoe (2007) delineates between the use of the terms “gay” and “fag” in that both males and females used gay to describe anything as stupid, whereas fag was almost exclusively used by boys directed at other boys to emphasize that individual’s lack of masculinity. These observations are reflected in the idea inherent in the findings of Glick and colleagues (2007) that an important distinction exists between what it means for a male to be homosexual versus what it means to not be masculine; mainly that the two concepts are not inextricably linked. One male student interviewed by Pascoe (2007) expressed this idea when he said, “Being gay is just a lifestyle. It’s someone you choose to sleep with. You can still throw around a football and be gay” (p. 58). This sentiment reflects the idea that embodying traditional masculine traits, even if only a few, positions men higher on the masculine totem pole than those who display feminine traits, regardless of that individual’s sexual orientation. Examining fag discourse has helped to inform an understanding as to the purpose it serves men, mainly to help bolster their position within the masculine hierarchy. Pascoe (2007) proposed the “hot potato hypothesis” (p. 61) by observing that threatened men could restore their masculinity by emasculating other men and therefore shift their position within the hierarchy. She explained that, “In this way the fag became a hot potato that no boy wanted to be left holding” (p. 61). Given that traditional masculine ideology appears to be at the center of fag discourse between men (Pascoe, 2007), it seems important to include it as a characteristic that might predict negative attitudes toward effeminacy.

The bottoms who don't wash their bottoms are the only ones who disgust me.

I count my blessings every day that I'm not femme and can pass for straight.

R12 I bet 90% of Lesbian women think vocal frying psycho girls give them a bad name.

Str8 is not worth passing for.

This is the distinguished TA. I mean researcher, behind the report.

It's even more complicated than this, IMO.

What is called "disgust" might just be people trying to act disgusted in order to conform to social mores, in this case, they believe they have to be disgusted by gays, so they act that way to signal to others that they aren't gay (even if they are).

And yes, people prefer people who conform to socialized gender roles. And guys who act like girls are often derided. No surprise there.

The real problem with doing this sort of research is that people will give the socially preferred response that is congruent to their circumstances. It is very difficult to figure out what people really think about controversial and taboo topics.

I've come across too many surprising closet cases to accept at face value what anybody says publicly about their opinions regarding sex and sexuality.

Fuck straight people.

Then why do dumb straight middle america guys like bottom boy cum dump Milo Y? Sexual frustration?

In secret, so-called str8 guys love out, even flamboyant and femme, guys. They hit on them and want to have sex with them, when no one's looking.

it all comes down to misogyny

Gays need to stop giving a fuck about what straight people think about them.

Masculinity is a fragile concept. I'm surprised gay men are so enamoured with a concept, that they will always be lesser in than straight men.

I think as bum sex is more accepted in the straight world, the disgust factor for gay bottoms will decline.

R14=victim blaming.

R25 nails it.

Effeminate gay men should just accept themselves who they are [i.e a woman ] .

They are woman trapped inside male body . They should go Trans way

OP, Are you saying that all effeminate gay men are bottoms? Is that what you mean by the post title? If not, how would a straight know who was a bottom?

They are biggest backstabber too

This doesn’t bother me. It may become less of an issue as time goes by. Many people aren’t huge fans of bitchy and queeny women either . There is something for everyone in this world and thank goodness that gay people have become much more mainstream and more accepted as a whole . There are plenty of gay celebrities who are well-liked and are on the effeminate end of the spectrum.

This is why masc4masc serves an important function

This is a RUSSIAN post.

Fems are the reason I can't have nice things.

r18 Um, no. Lesbians, too, view negatively those among them who don't conform to societal expectations, ie, masculine women.

r28 I don't think it's merely disgust at anal sex - if it were, then why should there be a difference in how people react to tops and bottoms? Tops are as involved in anal sex as bottoms are. Research shows that discomfort with gay male sexuality extends even to mildly sexual acts such as kissing on the lips, as well as non-sexual ones such as holding hands, kissing on the cheek, and even exchanging weddings rings. So, all the disgust towards male homosexuality can't be played down as an "understandable" reaction to anal sex - it's merely straight people (especially straight men) being childish jerks. I know this forum loves straight men, but they're vicious and they suck.

r31 No, sweetheart, the title simply mirrors the fact that the study analyzed societal attitudes towards both bottoms and effeminate gay men in separate questions.

In other words, it’s easier to be a straight-acting gay man.

[quote] This is why masc4masc serves an important function

What, to reinforce the same sexist cult of jenn-durr stereotypes that keep gay men from loving each other?

[quote]“I don’t mind gays who act like regular dudes; it’s the one who act like females I can’t stand.”

They're lying. They hate ALL of us.

R40, you realize There are varying degrees of hate?

I agree that THEY ALL pretty much are disgusted by all of us, but the "liberal media" has "shoved" us down their throats to the point that they're afraid of not being seen as PC if they voice their disgust. But I've seen and heard enough from supposedly straight "allies" to see that they tolerate us at best.

R25 exactly. women can be feminine because they're already inferior. but men who are feminine are degrading themselves by stooping to a woman's level

^Which is why homophobia is clearly linked to misogyny.

Man up!

Masculinity is sexy. But only in males.

[quote]I agree that THEY ALL pretty much are disgusted by all of us, but the "liberal media" has "shoved" us down their throats to the point that they're afraid of not being seen as PC if they voice their disgust. But I've seen and heard enough from supposedly straight "allies" to see that they tolerate us at best.

The Left are not our allies. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. They have waged a war on men and they do not care if gay men become collateral damage in this war. I even argued over the impact of abortion on the gay population, they said they didn't care if gay babies got aborted.

I agree allyship is more often than not a joke and that the left has a huge tendency towards hypocrisy. I don't get the part about the war on men when the problem discussed in this thread is men acting like women, though.

We don't do ourselves any favours when we make out that we, as gay men, are somehow superior when it comes to aesthetics and the 'finer things in life'. So arrogant.

Some of the most tackiest people I have ever met are gay men.

^"most tackiest"? Oh, dear!

I am straight, I really don't like feminine gays. They don't disgust me but I wouldn't want to interact with tem at any level. I enjoy masculine men. A lot. When I am in the sauna on all four, sucking and being fucked by all masculine men who want me, I enjoy myself. Really. I don't judge myself but I wouldn't want anyone to know.So its complicated

[quote]U.K. magazine found that 71% of gay men have found themselves sexually turned off by a prospective partner because he showed signs of femininity

Homosexual men are attracted to men, with male traits

This is the same dichotomy with FTM trannies : gay men are attracted to men, not a woman pretending to be a man

It's not rocket science

[quote]This is the same dichotomy with FTM trannies : gay men are attracted to men, not a woman pretending to be a man

Now you tell me!

Fruity bottoms are fun.

Stupid study.... Crazy it isn't clear and obvious it's easier if one blends into the crowd, doesn't stand out like a sore thumb, etc. Men who are straight, yet artsy, or androgynous, alternative and the like have it just as hard as effete gay men. Many are called "fag" and bullied in exactly the same fashion. Nasty people always pick on whomever they perceive to be weak, or less agressive.

Strong people fight back.

That indeed may be true R56, but my point is they needed a study to figure all this out? Pretty ridiculous!

That's why I can't take people seriously when they throw statistics at me that contradict what I have actually seen with my own two eyes in the real world.

Femmy bottoms don't help their cause by going around calling their assholes manginas or puss-hes. Nobody masculine, whether gay or straight, wants to hear that disgustingness. They make asses of themselves, no pun intended.

God created male and female. They are to be distinct from each other. Men aren't to take on the look or appearance of a woman and vice versa.

Beyond word !!

Preach it, r60! Preach it, bitch!

I hate lesbians

r18, we do!!

I hate lesbians

Flamers usually do.

Flamboyantly effeminate men elicit disgust in many gay men, too. But the what I’ve noticed is that many gay men have a very warped view of what masculinity is, and the ones who call themselves “masc”, generally aren’t at all themselves.

Perhaps it’s because they are immune to their own mannerisms, voice, and body language but I’d wager to say most gay men do demonstrate some feminine characteristics.

Perhaps it’s the lack of socialization with mainstream straight men, who are often effortlessly “masculine”. Who knows.

I think that most heterosexuals perceive homosexuality as "abnormal" and not natural. I know many straight people that accept gay people even though they feel same-sex relationships are not the way nature intended it. Again, just things I've heard from straight people over the years. I am not offended by it, because everyone has the right to their opinion.

They're not the ones who have to live with the consequences of how other people treat us.

Well said R59! I agree with you 100% !

r47 speaks the truth!!

Sorry but I really can't stands lesbz

R70 = the lezzie-hating troll from the Y&R threads.

They elicit more disgust in gay people too. That's not a good thing, but I see it all the time - just read DL responses on several threads.

We grow up with the same social conditioning, too, R72.

I think human beings are complicated. I also think we should ALL try to get along.

"I cured the world of its effem-o-homophobia. Let's dance!"

I have felt that many straights prefer us to act femmy, and get uptight around us "masculine" gays. not quite trusting us. They want us to play act like Sean Hayes on Will and Grace.

Bullshit, R75, you just reinforced every homophobic stereotype in the book and called that the only way to be gay.

[quote] I have felt that many straights prefer us to act femmy, and get uptight around us "masculine" gays. not quite trusting us. They want us to play act like Sean Hayes on Will and Grace.

That's why that show should never have been aired. He closeted himself through all eight years of that shit, did a movie with Mike fucking Myers and Alec fucking Baldwin, and all the while reinforced the stereotype that gay men are inherently unmanly and incapable of displaying masculine traits, and therefore not really men. Jodie Dallas from [italic]Soap[/italic] never made me feel aggravated or annoyed like that even though he almost did some of the worst things we as gay men can do to ourselves. He almost destroyed his body to be with a closeted football player in public: he didn't. He almost married a woman; he didn't. And he fought in court for the right to raise the child born of his coerced night alone with Carol. But he was a better-written and better-acted character on a better show.

Nothing in thesr studies is controversial or in dispute among reasonable people . Homophobia is usually expressed as disdain against gender nonconforming behaviors and identities. For example the most popular gay slurs inherently are infused with the notion that gay Men specifically are not manly or masculine. Fag, sissy, poofta, tinkerbell, pansy, light in the loafers, limp wrists, girly, and punk connote a defective man who may not even have sex with men, but lacks culturally sanctioned behaviors associated with masculinity and manliness. While many think gay sex itself is bad, weird, immoral, or unnatural, the passive role in gay sex bears the brunt of the cultural ridicule and loathing. Calling a guy a cocksucker is supposed to be a supreme insult, whereas there is no such common insult for dude who lets a dude suck him. I have heard countless men talk at length about the indignity of getting penetrated, but few spend energy portraying penetrating a man as so bad. Also, I have heard machismo fathers say that if their son is gay, he always is gonna be the “one giving it, never taking it.” Urban men especially distinguish levels of respect and disdain based upon sexual roles. The gay character Omar was lionized and beloved urban man because he was ultramasculine, thuggish.

Even in ancient Rome and Greece, a man who waz penetrated wias viewed much differently than a man who only penetrated . In fact, grown men were supposed to only penetrate

Bottom status may generate disgust as well as effeminancy, but people don't have to know if a gay guy is a bottom. Effeminancy, on the other hand, is plainly obvious.

Yeah, but I think a lot of people think about bottoming and sucking penis when they think about gay sex. That seems to be what guys especially are fixated on when saying gay sex disgusts them

There's only one "n" in effeminacy, R81.

In prison, a man who sucks or bottom is considered a “butch,” no how consensual or loving the context. No such stigma is attached to total tops.

Are they wrong, R82? Most gay men are bottoms.

The top/bottom dichotomy is a false one born of fear and ignorance about anal sex.

Real men take other men's dicks in their asses.

This thread needs to be taken out. There's no excuse for this.

It's an attack on gay people and the DL.

They won't even deal with stalker threads, R88, or the twice-weekly anti-Jewish dog whistle threads. What makes you think this will be any different?

Gotta love a fruity twink with a tight bum.

R88, how so? And how is it different than most threads here?

Haha well feminine gay men are also some of the most desired despite the replies on this thread

R92, evidence? Certainly not on dating apps and Craigslist

[quote]In prison, a man who sucks or bottom is considered a “butch,”

You sure you have the right vowel there?

"I do all right."

You can even compare the votes on Reddit porn.

Effeminate gay men elicit disgust in many GAY people - hunty you don't have to go much further than your phone to see that.

But gay men self-consciously trying to be masculine is also an extreme. It's still trying too hard, but in the other direction.

[quote] Also, I have heard machismo fathers say that if their son is gay, he always is gonna be the “one giving it, never taking it.”

Yeah, I'm sure you really heard that. What kind of ghetto shithole did you grow up in that this is something to discuss. It's a safe assumption that the vast majority of straight people don't want their kid to be any kind of gay, because they think it will make him/her an outcast.

R99, I know you’re racist, dude

If that’s you, R95, then I can see why.

Though I’d make you lose the heels.

Feminist theories are also helpful in understanding the social location of gay men who bottom. Because of their subverted sexual position, these men do not enjoy the same benefits of the patriarchy, and thus, feminist theory can be a lens through which to understand their experiences. In “Thinking Sex,” Rubin (1984) introduced the charmed circle to describe sexualities that have society’s seal of approval: heterosexual, married, monogamous, procreative, intra-generational, intra-racial, etc. Bottoming is often considered shameful because of its association with the anus (Guss, 2010) and because it is thought of as “femininizing” (Morin, 2010). Although still judged for having sex with men, people can more easily understand the role of a man who penetrates. The concept of masculinity is one with which gay men must grapple and negotiate.

Thinking about bottomhood as an identity is a particularly compelling place to begin because of the stigmatization often experienced by these gay men, both within and outside of communities of other gay men (Hoppe, 2011). Men and women of all sexual orientations still believe men compromise their masculinity when they allow penetration. Thus, “bottoms are judged on an entirely separate scale” and are often “more severely stigmatized because” penetration “is considered feminizing and shameful” (Underwood, 2003, p. 3). Men who identify as bottoms and allow penetration by other men, may be likely to develop and experience their identities differently than other gay men and certainly heterosexual or bisexual men. The purpose of this paper is to explore the intrinsic dispositions and extrinsic motivations that may lead some gay men to perform and embody “bottom identities” in intimate, interpersonal, and social contexts.

More recently, the concept of "Mediterranean homosexuality" has been adduced as a contrast to the predominant form of same-sex sexuality in Western Europe and North America. In this contrast, Mediterranean homosexuality is seen as characterized by a sharp dichotomy between active and passive partners, with only the passive partner in sexual relations ascribed a homosexual identity (and stigmatized), while the homosexuality predominant in North America and Western Europe is seen as one that emphasizes egalitarian relationships in which sexual roles are not rigidly polarized.

To much a do about nothing

Every good top has bottomed before.

Unlike the United States, where homophobia tends to be directed more evenly against all individuals who are attracted to other persons of the same sex, in Mexico it is far more intensely directed against those who violate norms of male and female conduct. That is especially pronounced among men, where effeminate behavior elicits far greater levels of social disapproval than does homosexuality per se. In the machista perspective, a man's greatest offense against the norm is to not act like a man. Effeminacy and cross-dressing are serious violations of the masculine ideal. But the greatest transgression is for a man to assume the sexual role of a woman in intercourse. The man who penetrates another man remains masculine. The man who is penetrated loses his masculinity, and incurs by far the greater social stigma.

According to Mexican Nobel laureate Octavio Paz,

It is likewise significant that masculine homosexuality is regarded with a certain indulgence insofar as the active agent is concerned. The passive agent is an abject, degraded being. This ambiguous conception is made very clear in the word games or battles—full of obscene allusions and double meanings—that are so popular in Mexico City. Each of the speakers tries to humiliate his adversary with verbal traps and ingenious linguistic combinations, and the loser is the person who cannot think of a comeback, who has to swallow his opponent's jibes. These jibes are full of aggressive sexual allusions; the loser is possessed, is violated, by the winner, and the spectators laugh and sneer at him. Masculine homosexuality is tolerated, then, on condition that it consists in violating a passive agent. As with heterosexual relationships, the important thing is not to open oneself up and at the same time to break open one's opponent.

I Recall a rapper Making the comment that his gay friends dont “get done,” never get poked, which made them still manly and worthy of respect.

Guys often express disrespect and dominance over men by saying loudly, “suck my dick.” It is telling they never say, “I’m gonna suck your dick.” Also, one of the ways soldiers assert dominance over the opposition historically was to rape the conquered people, including boys and men, obviously in the active penetrative role. Penetrating a man is still seen as a dominating ALPha role consistent with manliness.

A lot of heterosexual believes that it's all about Masculine Tops subjugating Feminine Bottoms. And therefore bottoms are weak.

THE END

And that's where we differ from heterosexuals. As gay men, we try to attract other men by appealing to our strengths as men.

[quote]But the greatest transgression is for a man to assume the sexual role of a woman in intercourse. The man who penetrates another man remains masculine. The man who is penetrated loses his masculinity, and incurs by far the greater social stigma.'s

And THIS is what it's about and has been sine the Greeks, Romans and all the way back to the time of Adam. POWER, DOMINANCE, SUBMISSION .It's not PRIMARILY about the sex and who does what WITH whom, it's about who does what TO whom.

To the lizard part of our brain, sexual "receptiveness" = weakness. And nature(and the human consciousness that rises OUT of biology) has not made a particularly strong case for "weakness". ...particularly in males.

Unfortunately, many,if not most, heterosexual male brains are still running this evolutionary program. As are, even more sadly, many HOMOSEXUAL men.

men have been shown to be more likely to explicitly label others who they feel are violating gender roles with pejorative terms, such as dyke, queer, or fag, perhaps as one way to police other’s behaviors (Bosson, Taylor, & Prewitt- Freilino, 2006). Beyond this, groups of men tend to be particularly harsh towards other men who they see as violating traditional gender roles; for example, Schope and Eliason (2004) found that heterosexual men would be open to introducing a masculine-acting gay man to their friend group, but less open to doing the same for a less masculine-acting gay man. Violations of gender role norms also hold considerably harsher consequences for men. According to Schope and Eliason (2004), men who violate their traditional gender role may face consequences as harsh as violence, and the penalties for women are often more subtle. With this in mind, it makes sense that other research has found that men experience higher expectations of negative backlash following violations of their gender roles (e.g., Bosson et al., 2006).

Even radical feminists believe heterosexuality is inherently sexist and degrading to women because women necessarily are penetrated during nonsynthetic intercourse with a man. This means they think being penetrated is always inferior, degrading, submissive.

"But gay men self-consciously trying to be masculine is also an extreme. It's still trying too hard, but in the other direction."

True, but do you think EVERY masculine gay guy is forcing the issue? Surely, some are. But aren't there actually gay men who are naturally masculine. If not, then we're concluding that to be gay necessarily means one is effeminate.

I am gay and I have never met a gay man who didn't set off my gaydar, no matter how masculine a facade he tried to project. There are just subtle little traits I'm able to pick up on. Something about the voice, body language, hand gestures, the smile...there's always something that gives them away.

[quote] But aren't there actually gay men who are naturally masculine. If not, then we're concluding that to be gay necessarily means one is effeminate.

Of course there are. But to feel threatened by things like long hair or openly expressing sadness is not a sign of being secure in one's manhood.

Exactly, r116.

Restricting what you do or how you look just because you're desperate to not seem feminine is dumb and the opposite of the confident "masc" persona you're trying to project. Every man gay and straight has some feminine qualities.

After several comments about the femmy dude on Will and Grace, I thought about it, and has there ever been an non- effeminate stand up comic? While I love almost all of them, it seems that they are all quite femme.

Is there a gay version of Norm McDonald or even the out of favor Louis CK?

I have always felt that Will Ferrell was a very femmy comic if he is even straight.

David Cassidy was a straight guy who was more feminine or androgynous and tons of girls and guys (gay and straight) loved him. I'm not understanding completely what it all means to people when they say fem? I think men who can show some emotions or feelings come across as very comfortable with themselves. That to me is a very attractive trait in all people whether it's a man or woman.

It makes me feel sad to read these studies and or see some of the comments because there are so many people who hate themselves already and it's better to just try to get along. If you're not turned on by someone for some reason so what? You're not going to sleep with the majority of folks you know anyhow.

I think it’s mostky discomfort or feeling something is weird more than hatred for most people. Most guys don’t mean any harm or fem guys, but rather just don’t feel comfortable Around or affinity for them

Well I've seen some straight guys not be able to deal with illness whether it's them or someone else. They are big fucking babies. I've watched gay men stick like glue to their partners who were dieing of AIDs related cancers etc. Their strength was just amazing. So what makes a man?

Know yourself, be yourself, and LOVE yourself.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -DR. SEUSS

Femmy guys are just as exhausting as women, if not more so. Like women, they tend to be irrational, very catty, and extremely emotionally needy, and feel the need to voice every fucking thought they have, no matter how trivial. And because they have testosterone coursing through their veins, all of these exhausting traits are magnified 100-fold. It's as though their feminine characteristics are amped up on steroids. They'e just awful to be around.

Men are selfish and self serving by nature, r121. You just took a feminine trait and tried to turn it into something masculine to make it "acceptable".

R123 No I didn't say it was feminine or masculine I was talking about strength. It takes lots of toughness and strength to be a caregiver. And if you're ever dieing and need someone I hope you have that!?

I'm masc and am only masc4masc when I date, and I would run for the hills if my partner came down with a catastrophic illness. The last dude I dated for about three or four months. He had a nasty cold for two weeks during the time we dated and I was constantly having to disinfect the powder room. Not wanting to be around sickos doesn't make me any less masc. I work out religiously and have a deep voice, so if you were to meet me and speak with me, you'd see that I was a 110% masc bro.

Most normal people find all gays repulsing.

[quote] [R123] No I didn't say it was feminine or masculine I was talking about strength.

You don't have to say it's feminine. It is. The vast majority of caregivers are women.

R125 No of course not! Not anymore than running away from reality and disinfecting your powder room because you're afraid of a little ol cold.

R127 Yeah? Well you state that to all the doctors out there. Say it to the men who have terminally ill wives they are taking care of and there are plenty of them. I hear what you're saying but a man taking care of someone doesn't make them any less of a man. I think it makes them a better man.

"They hate us because we're fabulous."

R130 ha ha Naw, I love ya all!!

Everyone wants " masculine man". No fems please. Straight acting straight looking. That's the way to go

Of course there are great male caregivers, but women are born with the caregiver gene firmly implanted, It is the rule and never the exception.

It is one of women's good qualities.

Fruity bottoms need love too!

Fruitty bottom need to butch up.they will be rewarded

R135, is Engish your second language?

Tons of shitty moms out there who wouldn’t/couldn’t care for a goldfish

Flamers skeeve me out. They ruin it for us masculine straight-acting gay guys. I think straight people would accept us if we all just acted normal.

I hate the myth perpetrated that drag queens and effeminates were the Stonewall riot heroes. I call bullshit on that.

Fuck a fem. It's fun.

That is an unusually white ass.

You can never be too rich, too thin, or too whi...

R136 I am from Slovenia

I've found that gay black men are either extremely butch or extremely femme. There are really no shades of gray.

femme guys are gross.

I don't like femme guys. Black guy are ok if they are masculine, middle age, good looking, muscular and have huge dick

Davey begs to differ.

I think femme orientals or grodier than femme AAs

who as a celebrity is too fem for those who want only masculine guys?

R149 I almost suggested Frankie Grande, but many DLers have asserted that he's undeserving of the title 'celebrity.'

There are plenty of regular black dudes that aren’t extreme either way

^Not the black hustlers I pick up at adult video stores. They're either ghetto or super-femme. I prefer the former.

Anthony Recker is to femme and has skin that’s too yellow

[quote] There are plenty of regular black dudes that aren’t extreme either way

Then why do white guys have to examine the politics of every single choice of music, wardrobe, and hairstyles?

Just tell me how I can get str8 thug dick.

Take your street sweeper cock ‘round da corner...

Do thugs like to date (with the hope it could lead to marriage?)

I want a bad boy that I can tame within three months, while still maintaining that dangerous "Will he slit my throat at the moment of climax" edge that I find so sexy and endearing.

I can’t be the only one rooting for the throat slitting

Actually, I prefer the choking fantasy. But that seemed too extreme to share with DLers.

"Ain't no fem boys where I live."

R152, aim Higher in your life, dude.

THugs rarely monogamously commit to women, let alone dudes

[quote] Anthony Recker is to femme and has skin that’s too yellow

He does not have yellow skin. It’s more brown or olive. And he’s a big jock type, not femme in the least.

And his ass isn’t womanly enough

[quote] And his ass isn’t womanly enough

Isn’t womanly enough for what?

The Indy 500, Rose

TRffd

Fascinating

I'm hungry!

I completely agree that it seems that black men seem to come in two types. The super femme Bravo TV Miss Lawrence type(although I have the feeling he is very manly behind closed doors) or the bisexual DL hard guys.

DL black guys: Are the majority of the really hard ultra masculine tatted up dudes somewhat bi w/women? I recall that Yusef Mack guy who was gay, yet her had fathered 15 kids. I mean, how gay can you be and have 15 children? I can't see any of the DL regulars having a shitload of kids.

R170, how many black dudes do you actually know?

R170, do you think DL is indicative of the average bi and gay man?

Homothugs are the the sexiest men alive. They know how to make love to their "man" and treat "him" well in bed.

I have known tom=ns of black men due to my line of work, and yes, I did think that DL was a fairly accurate representation of gay and bi men(though I have only read two self identified bi men's posts.)

And by the way, I purposely did not use the t word.

There are exceptions here, But masculine bi and gay dudes are unlikely to frequent or post on DL. A forum that discusses Golden Girls, uses female pronouns for men, and talks about soap operas and divas is inherently not gonna attract a lot of masculine male interest. The subject matter here is for stereotypical gays, not mainstream bi and gay men. There are exceptions.

Makes sense R175.

Sorry for my typo in my post @R175. It should have read tons, not toms.

I'm very effeminate and am quite aware of how others perceive me. People snicker at me, but I don't care what anyone thinks of me. I am who I am. The world would be a much better place if people just said fuck it and not give two fucks what anyone thought about them.

r177, so freakin true!! But sadly it's not .

Life is so much better when you answer a masc4masc profile, and you both heeve a sigh of relief when you first see each other and both realize the description of the other guy is accurate.

R177, do you ever feel your safety is threatened because of your femininity.

Claro

Ssssss

Fascinating

Dang

No one like bitchy, femmy queens

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