Figure skating 2018, PT. II

Link to previous thread.

Has Sarah Hughes weighed in on the ladies' final?

Does she still weigh 1,000 pounds?

Open questions from the last thread:

1. One poster wants to know: do the Women have a chance at an Olympic medal 2. A different poster wonders: What do we think will happen at Canadian nationals next week? 3. Dominique Dawes asks: Why does Shannon Miller's leotard not cover her flat white girl ass? 4. Who had the better WHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYY ME? moment at nationals: Ashley Wagner or Nancy Kerrigan 5. Will NathanChenBot peak at the Olympics, or is a new jumpBot with an improved operating system going to come out of nowhere? 6. What's on Grant Hochstein's wedding registry

Have at it bitches.

I don't watch figure skating. I masturbate to it.

[quote] 6. What's on Grant Hochstein's wedding registry

A hockey uniform, helmet, pads and a stick for Caroline to wear when he's forced to have sex with her on their honeymoon.

r3 1. If one of our bitches has the skate of her life maybe bronze 2. Canada is irrelevant 3.She's from Oklahoma 4. Kerrigan 5. Chenbot reigns supreme 6. CustomDicks on 5th street in Weho.

From previous thread: [quote]We'll see how he behaves whenever he is humbled. Or he could simply win an Olympics, injure himself from jumping too much too soon, and retire shortly thereafter like Tara.

That boy is not sticking around if he wins Olympic gold. Someone who is willing to push their body to those limits is not thinking long-term.

Nathan keeps talking about his strategy and his plans. His plan is to win, and win now. Take the money, run and have a life.

Honestly, he doesn't even seem to enjoy skating. It's looks like he does it because he just happens to be good at it. Even if he doesn't end up winning Olympic gold, I don't think he'll stick around another cycle. He just seems so bored with the whole thing.

Without much emotional investment, it makes all the more sense to throw caution to the wind, capitalize on his youth and talent now, win the big prize, then collect his millions and go find his true passion--but without having to worry financial security ever again.

It's a gamble, but if I wasn't into skating, doing it for another four years (even if I were good) would seem like torture, especially when I had the capability to go out on top now.

From the last thread: Who was a religious loon in the 90s-00s era of skating?

Paul Wylie would talk about his desire to be a religious liberties lawyer and was one of the worst. I remember Ryan Jahnke (WHET!) used to be interviewed talking about teaching Sunday school. He had one good nationals and then disappeared entirely. Roz Sumners was very fundy, but she was already in her dotage in that era. Rachell Flatt, who let's not forget was a chronic liar and a raging bitch that made Ashley seem sympathetic when she broke out on the scene, was a religious nutjob. Don't know if he was religious, but Elvis Stojko is a homophobic asshole par excellence.

Then there are those who gladly took religious money and looked the other way at homophobia. Michelle Kwan married (and divorced) a democrat, but she sure never said anything when Stars on Ice wouldn't hire Johnny Weir because he wasn't "family friendly". Scott Hamilton loved to take money from 700 club appearances. Michael Weiss started fucking his dance teacher when he was 20, and to distract from that news he started skating to religious music like that dreadful Lord's Prayer program. I have no idea about Patrick Chan's religion, but he was the face of SkateTough for the one year it lasted, and I've never forgiven him or Canada for it.

The real evil people were the coaches, donors, and sponsors. Richard Callaghan was a huge proponent of keeping guys in the closet. Probably because he was (allegedly, and alleged repeatedly) sexual misconduct with his underage male skaters.

(My biggest hope out of the Tara and Johnny Renaissance is that Tara writes a tell all. You know she wouldn't hold back, and she ditched Callaghan as a coach for the guy who accused him of molestation for the last 5 months of her skating career. You know she knows things).

It's been rumored for years that he fucked Todd Eldredge up psychologically, if not literally.

Yeah, I also remember Ryan Jahnke, who was like a Wylie 2.0--pinged a lot, but always dropping religious, bible stuff in whatever interview he gave. He wasn't a great skater though, so he rarely got much press.

I just hope we are at the beginning of the end of that era in skating. There are open gay skaters now, like Adam and Eric Radford, succeeding in the sport as out athletes. It's not much, but it's something young gay kids can look to for representation and inspiration. That, along with social media and a younger generation fazing out the old...hopefully we'll see more skaters coming out younger and not thinking how it might affect their career or reputation with the judges.

when is jason brown going to come out though

USFSA's scoring manipulations are finally going to bite them in the ass. If they scored Zhou's UR's the way they scored Ross Miner's, they wouldn't be in the situation they're currently in... If they fuck over Zhou again, I'll be very disappointed.

South Korean Olympic selection

Ice Dance

Yura Min/Alexander Gamelin

Pairs

Kyueun Kim/Alex Kangchan Kam

Ladies

Dabin Choi

Hanul Kim

Men

Jun hwan Cha

Cha butch as ever

R10 Never, because he'll lose his Japanese fanbase. Same for Yuzuru and Shoma.

Now that Rippon has flopped as much as he could, will we go to the Olympics with just 2 openly gay skaters?

Only Eric Radford and Joti Polizoakis

And Polizoakis' skating is so good that he is best remembered because he used to (get) fuck(ed) by Johnny Wear's crazy ex husband.

Somebody posted at FSU, they are hearing from very reliable sources that Ross Miner will NOT be selected for the Olympic team.

Looks like he's going to be the sacrificial lamb for Adam.

Sucks for Ross, really. He was so emotional after his skate. And really, this bombing-at-Nationals-but-still-making-Olympic-teams is starting to look like a pattern for Raf's students.

Poor Ross. I've never considered him but it must fell heartbreaking. I always root for the underdogs

Zhou on IG: "...What a great way to start 2018--with better performances, a number of quads that I know were clean...."

is he bitching about the technical panel like a Diva Wagner? He knows they are clean..how did they dare to call them URs?!

Nah, Zhou's just being a hyper-competitive Chinese kid from Palo Alto--think engineer/math geek--it's a type. I prefer Nathan--I don't think he's a bot--he actually picks interesting music--but he's got to know his body can't take quads forever, so he needs to go for the gold while he can.

Realistically--Chen's competition for the gold is Hanyu (if well), Uno and Fernandez. Hanyu's the best skater, but both he and Uno can be head cases.

Speaking of headcases, Gracie Gold tweeted that she wants to compete again--inspired by the mess at Nationals. Hell, even a messed-up Gold has better arms than Bradie, more musicality than Nagasu and more consistency than Chen. Also prefer her snark to Ashley's .

All in all, I'm getting the sense that Frank Carroll's packaging was deadly for her. Damn shame, because she's way more talented than the current pack.

Yes, Ashley, that includes you.

Oh, for 578 in the old thread--no the Grand Prix isn't a perfect indicator of who will win the Olympics.

Hanyu and Fernandez were missing from the Grand Prix--one was injured and the other was sick during one of the qualifiers and scored weirdly low. Also the Men's Grand Prix was a mess. They all sucked.

Pairs--Sui and Han are the current World champs and also have a good shot at Gold.

Dance--I wouldn't rule out Virtue/Moir yet, though I think the Grand Prix results do give Papadakis/Cizeron the edge. And, yeah, I expect the Shibs to get the bronze. No matter what, I hope V/M retire afterwards.

Ladies--Evgenia Medvedeva is injured, but she's the favorite over Zagitova. I expect the medals to be Medvedeva, Zagitova and a non-Russian for bronze--Kaitlyn Osmond. Though there could be a splatfest and Carolina Kostner could come gliding in on her PCS. Major splatfest and Bradie Tennill could sneak in there, but she'd have to get past the third Russian, the Japanese as well as Kostner and Osmond. I don't see it happening, but ice skating has a random factor.

And, damn, not sure what to think about Russ Miner having the skate of his life and then possibly getting booted for Adam Rippon. Or Vincent getting booted after he was denied Worlds last year after winning the silver.

Miner's quad through a spanner into the works.

As long as that FS by Tarasova/Morozov doesn't win an Olympic Gold, I am fine with both Sui/Han or Aljona in Pairs

WHET to that girl Tyler Pierce? She used to skate with Kori Ade for a while didn't she?

On FSU they say Rippon's team has been informed he has been selected

omg I really hope Miner makes it

Didn't they deny Zhou a spot at worlds last season?

I can't imagine they would the kid again, especially when he can do a quad lutz.

I know there have been some sightings of male figure skater bare butts, but has there been any peen?

Re: Alexa Knierim---What I really don't like is not the belief in God, but the attitude of "God is good because He chose ME to win!" I know all about her surgery and health setbacks, and for that, I'm sorry. What I don't feel sorry for is someone who believes that they are the chosen one, more deserving than anyone else. And why are you defending fundies on a gay discussion board? They could care a less about you...

[quote]WHET to that girl Tyler Pierce? She used to skate with Kori Ade for a while didn't she?

I forgot about her. Not sure where she went. But yeah, she was with Kori briefly and didn't last. Mariah Bell bailed on Kori too. Kori seemed to be a rising star of coaching a few years ago, but it seems like she has done nothing to build up her reputation recently. And while I laughed at her going after Jonathan from TSL in Grenoble and leaving him crying in a bathroom, it does seem kind of unseemly and unprofessional for a coach to be engaging with some two-bit Youtuber that way.

Kori got Lecavelier this season and she is working hard to lose the Olympic spot to Meité

Meité won Nationals and beat Lecavelier also at Masters of France and in French GP. Generally by small margins. French Fed decided to delay decision after Euros

More hand-wringing over First Alternate Wagner’s failure to make the Olympic team. At least those interviewed put the blame squarely on her shoulders.

She did worse at the World Championships last year than her American rival. She placed 4th here.

Case closed.

In the last thread a couple people compared Ashley to Trump and it's so true. Both are textbook narcissists. They suck everyone into their vortex, have zero self awareness and throw tantrums like toddlers when they don't get their way. Her retirement announcement is the one I'm most eagerly awaiting.

From the article that r28 linked to:

[quote]What upset Wagner was a feeling that the judges looked at her rotations more critically than those of other skaters. "I am absolutely OK with them being strict on my rotations, but it needs to be across the board," Wagner said. "I don't necessarily think it has been that way at this event." The judges actually slammed Chen far more on rotation flaws in the free skate, downgrading one of her jumps and calling three others under-rotated. That added up to a loss of some seven base value points.

An oldie but goody about Wagner from 2014.

Can someone explain to me why companies have lined up to continue sponsoring this woman? Her selection to the 2014 team was controversial, she ended up in seventh place, she’s a poor sport, and she’s pushing 30. How much shit Pandora jewelry do people actually buy because of her??

Never major always Miner.

Sad.

Christine Brennan‏ @cbrennansports Breaking Olympic selection news: I have confirmed with three sources that the US men’s Olympic figure skating team will be Nathan Chen, Vincent Zhou and Adam Rippon. Ross Miner, 2nd place finisher at US Nationals, has been dropped.

Oh for fuck’s sake....I can’t believe they put Adam on that team. It’s Ashley 2014 all over again.

That’s bullshit. Miner did a perfect skate!

This is yet one more reason why US figure skating has become a joke.

And that's yet another reason why I was against the 2014 Ashley decision because it set a bad precedent. I can understand bumping a skater if another much better, more accomplished skater were injured. But bumping a skater for someone else whom he/she has just beaten at Nationals sets us up for all kinds of favoritism and bullsh*t.

Miner looks like he has Downs. Good decision.

R39 = Adam Rippon

The men’s singles team is

Nathan Chen

Adam Rippon

Vincent Zhou.

Jason Brown (first alternate), Ross Miner (second alternate), and Max Aaron (third alternate).

They never considered Miner. He's down to second alternate. If someone get injured, they will send Brown

Adam Rippon: When I found out what the Olympic team was, I texted Ross Miner and I told him that I was proud of what he did yesterday and how well he skated. He texted me right back and told me he was very happy to me. Four years ago, I didn't know if I wanted to continue skating, and a year ago, I was sitting in a cast. I've been very consistent and I'm very grateful for this opportunity. And I feel like my experience will help me have a great performance at the Olympic games

Vincent Zhou: To have [Olympian] attached to my name is more than I can ask for. I'm so grateful for everyone who has been part of the process. My two teammates are very deserving of the spots and I'm very happy for them

Jesus, that's cold, R41. What a blatant appeasement to Brown's fans......

Wow, Adam really is Ashley.

I never thought I'd be feeling sorry for Ross Miner, but damn that's cold. Why the fuck do they even have Nationals if they're going to just name whoever they want anyway?

Tai Babilonia @taiskates I just heard my friend/skating coach Mark Mitchell is leaving the world of figure skating

R43, not sure who’s the bigger ass: Adam or the idiots who put him on the team.

Adam, your “experience” didn’t help your fucked up performance last night, why should it help you at the Olympics?

Sam Auxier: The vote was 11 to 1

This just raises more questions about figure skating being a "sport." I'm trying to remember if this has ever happened in swimming or track and field -- somebody getting bumped for another athlete whom he/she has just beaten at the qualifying nationals.

Oh, I love Tia Baloney.

Vincent Zhou: Last night, I was in my hotel room and my mom told me to go to sleep but I couldn't. I was hanging on to everything I could that I would make the team. When the text came, it was such a moment, it was absolutely amazing

R46, I think it's simply to ensure the most competitive team. Most other countries pick Olympic teams in any number of sports based on a broad span of work and not just on one competition - even in objective sports like track and field and swimming where the results should speak for themselves. Even gymnastics was relatively straight forward for years, with the exception of an injured "star". The US has a long history of simply having trials or nationals to decide the team in a lot of sports, but that's changing. Track and field and swimming remain "pure" in how the teams are picked, but other sports are packing on the committees, increasing the span of competitions considered, increasing the criteria on which selections will be based, etc.

R47, wasn't Mark Mitchell also bumped from a team once? I seem to remember, though, that the skater who bumped Mitchell was injured and couldn't compete at Nationals.

Chen: I train w him every day. I definitely wouldn't be the skater that I am without him by my side

Zhou: Adam is really deserving & we know he's a fighter

Rippon: I'm so excited that my 2 sons are doing so well and I'm happy to be their father

Except, R53, when you put a skater on the team who can’t hold it together at Nationals, you’re not really getting the most competitive team.

They should disband this committee selection process. Olympic selection should just be based on nationals solely. Those who can withstand the pressure will rise to the top and those who can't wither.

Ross' omission makes me want to root for any other team but the USA. Go Japan! Go Olympic athletes from Russia!

I agree, R56, but I think that's their reasoning - at least their public reasoning. Could be political reasons behind the scenes.

Holy shit, second alternate? That's sending quite the message.

Fuck off, Ross Miner.

Yeah, R54, he was bumped from an Olympic team for Todd Eldridge. But at least Todd had a back injury.

Then again, Eldridge went to the Olympics three times, and three times came away with no medals.

Would someone mind filling me in on the backstory on Ross Miner? I don’t know much about him other than seeing him skate at Nationals. This thread has touched upon the backgrounds of the skaters but not really his.

Rippon won't the oldest debutant in the Pyeongchang Men event.

Chafik Besseghier of France is a couple of months older than Rippon and will make his Olympic debut (it's actually a testament of how much French male skating have fallen in the last decade)

I have no problem with the team being chosen according to a skater's 'body of work' but there needs to be a system in place. Everybody has a bad day (or a very good day) and team placement shouldn't necessarily be based on one skate.

Rather, they should codify a system wherein perhaps the results of five (or more) major events over the course of a year are tallied up to give a grand total and thus determine a skater's place on the team. That would be fair and unbiased.

Ross Miner was found on a tropical island beach by his adoptive parents.

Sam Auxier: On the criteria, we looked Adam's seasons. He had one of the strongest seasons of all the men based on average scores. He was selected for Worlds last year but had to pull out due to injury

eh? They didn't say it last year...

Im sorry, but this system of choosing someone despite his “bad day” at the biggest competition before the Olympics is such a millennial concept.

Aww, he tried so hard, give it to Adam. UGH.

As much as Michelle Kwan deserved gold based on her illustrious career, she didn’t get it because she didn’t deliver when it counted. Nor did she demand it. How times have changed.

^^I’m^^

Has Ross Miner been Kim Kelly'd?? 😫

R61, do you remember if Mitchell complained after he was bumped? If he did, maybe the Miner decision is a little bit of payback. I would hate to think if that's true, but as we all now this "sport" can be so political at times.

^^know and not now

[quote] Im sorry, but this system of choosing someone despite his “bad day” at the biggest competition before the Olympics is such a millennial concept.

That's news to us.

Love,

Roza Galieva, Alexandra Marinescu, and Kim Kelly

[quote]That's news to us. Love, Roza Galieva, Alexandra Marinescu, and Kim Kelly

Girls, please.

The main problem with figure skating is that too many of the people behind the scenes crave the power and influence and politics. They see themselves as the puppeteers...the real artists. After all, there's always a new young and needy skater ready to feed their ego.

If Figure Skating is going to be a sport, they need to stop this backroom bullshit. It's already a judged competition. It already straddles the line between art/athletics. It has already (and consistently) shown itself to be corrupt. The election process should be absolutely crystal clear and not something that can be "voted on."

And all of this bullshit for what? So Adam Rippon can get 7th place? Who cares? And you know they moved Jason to 1st Alternate as cover for their decision.

[quote] Rather, they should codify a system wherein perhaps the results of five (or more) major events over the course of a year are tallied up to give a grand total and thus determine a skater's place on the team. That would be fair and unbiased.

that's what some other nations did

Italy=sum of scores from National and 3 best International scores of the season

Germany=sum of the 3 best scores between Nationals, GP and Challenger Series (each skater would have been assigned to 3 Challengers)

South Korea=sum of results of 3 internal events (Nationals + other 2)* they were so stupid that they forced semi-injured skaters to do all the 3 events or they would have dropped off the Olympic race

Spain=sum of Nationals + Golden Spin of Zagreb (except for Fernandez who was selected before the season started)

Problem of doing this in USA is that if they consider only GPs, they cut off all skaters who don't have 2 assignments. If they include Challenger Series, comparing scores of GPs and Challenger is not always fair. Some of the results at Challenger Series are, erm, interesting...

The person who said they do these things in objective sports like track and field is wrong. Track and Field and Swimming for the US have a strict Trials system. It's different than a national championship, but the results at trials stand. And sometimes there are upsets and the US's best swimmer doesn't make top two and doesn't go to Olympics. EVEN IF IT WAS JUST A BAD DAY.

I don't mind the idea of having a bake-off or a body of work selection process, but it should written in stone what it is, and if they aren't going to go with national finishes, then they should also just divorce the selection from nationals entirely.

I defended the Ashley selection in 2014. I didn't necessarily like it, but I thought it was defensible. Mirai looked tired and didn't skate well and this was on the back of 3 years of bad skating. In my mind, a justification was - well, if they don't take Ashley here, why would anyone show up to nationals? Why not just claim a foot injury and get an auto-dispensation into the Olympics a la Todd Eldridge if you are number 1 in the sport already.

But here's where I think this whole thing is unfair. Adam has a "body of work" BECAUSE USFS sent him to all these competitions. They haven't been sending Ross Miner to... anywhere. It's not like he even had a chance to get a body of work. I also realize that alternates are rarely ever moved in, and I can't imagine any of the three current skaters not dragging themselves onto the ice even if they lost a limb right before the short program... but to put him as 2nd alternate is even more galling. What body of work does Jason Brown have?! And why is Max Aaron's name even anywhere near the alternates list. Dude finished 9th and has looked bad for 5 years.

R49, I can't believe the vote was 11-1. In the past, Miner and/or his coach Mark Mitchell must have done something to really p*ss off the powers that be.

r77 Yeah, or something else is going on. I could see a near unanimous decision to send Adam. As much as I think the eeny-meeny-miny-mo committee is a stupid system, if they are going to allow it I might as well use it to move up somebody I actually think might possibly have a chance at giving us a medal opportunity...

but I find it hard to believe that 11/12 people were like "yeah, fuck Ross Miner's dreams, lets send the 17 year old who can't fully rotate anything and the mouthy choke-artist"

[quote] They haven't been sending Ross Miner to... anywhere. It's not like he even had a chance to get a body of work.

this season Ross Miner did Skate America (6th with Chen first and Rippon second). He did one Challenger Series event: Finlandia Trophy (5th with Zhou second and Rippon third)

2018 World Championships

Nathan Chen

Adam Rippon

Vincent Zhou

Alternate 1 – Jason Brown Alternate 2 – Ross Miner Alternate 3 – Max Aaron

2018 Four Continents Championships

Jason Brown

Ross Miner

Max Aaron

Alternate 1 – Grant Hochstein Alternate 2 – Timothy Dolensky Alternate 3 – Alexander Johnson

r69 Oh other Kim, you dour old hag. Always with the "I had hips and that's why Bela didn't like me" blame game. Maybe you should just admit that Bela was looking for girls with flair, and class, and knockout hair and not --- the Anybodys understudy from the Pacoima Players Community Theatre production of West Side Story.

Kick you off the time once, shame on me; kick you off the team twice... well... you know.

Not even Worlds for Miner

And no 4Continents for Grant. They send Aaron!

Also, r78, why is Miner second alternate instead of first alternate? This really stinks.

I miss Kevin bottom.

2018 World Junior Championships

Alex Krasnozhon Camden Pulkinen Tomoki Hiwatashi

Alternates (not ranked): Maxim Naumov, Andrew Torgashev, Dinh Tran.

top omment by Golden Skate frau: Grant doesn't get 4CC???? USFS you're killing me today. Luckily he has Caroline

Is Miner smart? He should quit and go to med school. None of this matters. Maybe fatherhood will be as fulfilling for Grant as it has been for me.

Why is this sport seemingly so much more corrupt than gymnastics? They are both "artistic," subjective sports, after all.

r88 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Fuck Rippon and his statement that he is, "consistent."

No, honey, you're obviously not which is why you fucked yourself all over the ice last night. If you can't keep it together at the Nationals you shouldn't be going to the Olympics.

Your mistakes last night were you giving up and it proves you aren't deserving.

And to give Miner SECOND ALTERNATE really is fucked up.

Where's Tonya? We need someone to not know anything about a clubbing on two skaters.

In the last thread I told you to sit back and watch them do it with a smile. I told you... they're even nastier than you imagined!

r88 Yes. And boxing has also always been 100% on the level, too.

Enjoy watching the Olympics, sweeetie. And drink your juice and be in bed by 8:30.

r90. Calm down. It's just a sport! And there's something to be said about putting in the time and the unquantifiables that go beyond a nationals score. Remember this is a team sport as much as an individual now! But also please note that if you aren't on the team you absolutely cannot walk in the opening ceremonies or enter the athletes village. rules are rules.

Ashley Wagner is talented at one thing: being white. If she were a woman of color who dared to say any of the things she did - either this quadrennial or last, she would have been excoriated by everyone. But because she's white, it's all pushed off on her "being outspoken" or an army-brat princess.

Gabby Douglas doesn't smile one time and it launched 1000 thinkpieces about how she was a raging bitch. Ashley is a raging bitch and she's met with frau fans saying "OH MY GOD ASHLEY I KNOW!!!!"

Exhibition on live on NBC today, 2-5 pm CST. Will be interesting to see who comments on the Wagner/Miner situation. I like Johnny and Tara very much and they do not seem like the types to hold back!

their asses are so lovely mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Didn't Gabby Douglas also say her teammates who were molested deserved it because of the way they dressed... and then when she got bad press for it turned around claimed she was molested too.

[quote]I like Johnny and Tara very much and they do not seem like the types to hold back!

Johnny seemed pretty vocal that Wagner didn't deserve her place back in 2014.

Johnny Weir @JohnnyGWeir USA Figure Skating has nominated @nathanwchen @Adaripp & @govincentzhou to the Olympic Team. I am heartbroken that Ross Miner was not named however I trust Adam will be exemplary in his preparation and inspire many with his performances at Olympics.

Pairs Olympic selection

Alexa Scimeca-Knierim and Chris Knierim

Tarah Kayne and Danny O’Shea (first alternate), Deanna Stellato and Nathan Bartholomay (second alternate), and Ashley Cain and Timothy LeDuc (third alternate).

Would Ross Miner have been bumped if he were black? I don't know anyone on the selection committee but I would guess that they would have been less likely to bump Miner if he were black because they would have wanted to avoid any suggestion of being racist. I bring this up to make a point that, unless there's some sort of transparent, predefined criteria in place (e.g., Nationals count as 50% and three highest finishes over the past year count as the remaining 50%), then all kinds of other factors can come into the committee's decision-making process, whether consciously or not.

After Ladies FS Auxier didn't want to reveal who was on the selection committee...

have they named them yet? Or will it be a secret forever?

The "body of work" argument is lame because they don't use that argument for the Worlds or Olympics. It's not like the Olympics give points for a "body of work" and then add that to the outcome at the Olympics. You get judged gold, silver or bronze based on that one skate.

Pairs selection

2018 World Championships

Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea

Alexa Scimeca-Knierim/Chris Knierim

Alternate 1 – Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay Alternate 2 – Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc Alternate 3 – Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier

2018 Four Continents Championships

Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc

Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea

Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay

Alternate 1 – Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier Alternate 2 – Marissa Castelli/Mervin Tran Alternate 3 – Chelsea Liu/Brian Johnson

2018 World Junior Championships

Sarah Feng/TJ Nyman

Audrey Lu/Misha Mitrofanov

Alternate 1 – Laiken Lockley/Keenan Prochnow Alternate 2 – Nadine Wang/Spencer Howe Alternate 3 – Elli Kopmar/Jonah Barrett

[quote] I would guess that they would have been less likely to bump Miner if he were black because they would have wanted to avoid any suggestion of being racist.

Don't be so sure about that!

Even so, r105, I think the committee would be more likely to bump an Asian skater than a black one just because there's a much higher number of Asian skaters. But my point is that we don't know what kinds of factors are entering the committee's decision-making process, either consciously or subconsciously. And this is why we really need transparent, predefined, objective criteria.

But R106 it IS transparent... because it's obvious they had already pre-determined Rippon was going to the Olympics despite his not deserving it!

The "they wouldn't bump a black" poster is a complete troll post. It's never even been close to happening since there haven't been black male skaters close to qualifying for an Olympic spot. A unique way to complain about "reverse racism" even though nothing of the sort happened or had even the possibility of happening.

Actually I think they already decided it would have been 2 between Rippon-Brown-Zhou-Aaron and only used Nationals to pick the 2 out of the 4.

R107, LMFAO!

What's the best Karmic outcome of all this? US gets the expected team bronze but they don't skate Adam so he doesn't medal. Then Nathan gets mens gold and Mirai gets women's silver while Adam pulls a Jeremy Abbot 15 second on ice splat meltdown after being in 4th going into the free skate?

As dumb as this scoring system is, at least its better than the old ordinals ranking.

R108, you missed the point of my post. My point was that we need transparent, predefined, objective criteria; otherwise, other factors can come into play, whether consciously or subconsciously. I used race as an example, but it could be myriad other things. For instance, maybe the committee members don't like a skater's coach because he's been outspokenly critical of them in the past. In the Jamie Natalie (gymnastics) case cited earlier, the selection committee snubbed him allegedly because he had gone against the USOC's wish for him to train with them and had instead continued his training at Ohio State University.

Brown: "Nothing is easy about this moment, but I remain proud of giving it my all. While I wish I was competing by their sides, I am so proud and excited for @adaripp @govincentzhou @nathanwchen!! I'll be cheering them on like crazy this February!!!"

....

For starters, r111, I would be ecstatic if Miner took the gold at 4 CC.

So do they do the same with Worlds? Are they sending Rippon in Miner's place too?

Used to be that if they removed someone from the team for the Olympics they would at least get to compete at Worlds. I noticed they didn't do that with Mirai back in 2014 though.

I wonder if Miss Rippon regrets acting so cocky with his selection committee crack after how they saved his hide.

yes, Rippon also at Worlds. With Jason Brown as first alternate

Doubtful, R117. The entitled never regret anything.

Maybe the committee wanted another Asian in Korea instead of a bland white boy. That's why they picked Zhou instead of Minor.

I thought he was the best out of them all, except for the guy who won, of course.

But would some of you bitches mind tweeting him and asking if his mommy was on the selection committee?

the only 1 sitting on the selection committee who didn't vote for Rippon-Zhou was Miner's mother?

R122, LOL!!!

Where is Kevin right now?

If Adam had fucked up just one of his final jumps and not both of them would we be in this position?

Also - how did Jason Brown get first alternate? Miner may be inconsistent, but how many times has Jason landed a quad in practice let alone competition?! Jason can barely land a decent triple axel.

So is 4 Continents the consolation prize competition for skaters who miss the Olympic cut?

yup, USA and Canadian won't go to 4 Continents this year because they are too close to Olympics (IIRC they finish on January 28) and they are in Taiwan.

Japan and China are sending their Olympic team to 4CCs though (except Hanyu and Yu/Zhang)

So is Ashley going to be forced to skate at 4 Continents???

R125, Rippon was 5.5 points behind Zhou, so he would have needed more than just one of those triples unless that triple was really well executed and he got addional grade-of-execution points too.

Going back to Wagner's bitching that she didn't receive the component marks she "should have," gotten.

How much of that can be attributed to her 1) using an old program she had already used for several seasons and 2) debuting a brand new program at Nationals?

Oh stop with your bitching, everyone. Compared to Ross, Adam is a much better skater and he had much much better results this year and so did Vincent. Like did anyone actually think Ross was ever going to be chosen for the Olympic team?

I do agree though that it's unfair that Jason Stagnating-Like-Crazy gets first alternate.

r129 Huh. It makes me wonder why Adam has that stupid double axel early in the program. I get their are bonus points for late in the program difficult elements, but if you are going to have a lame jump, why not make it last. That way if you pop an early jump, you at least have one element spot left you can try to up the points.

It feels like USFS should whip its coaches in shape to learn how to play the game better. They should demand that Jason gets a quad or he's off the team, they should force Nathan's coaches to design a program with great transitions to hide his artistry problems (boy has ok musicality, he moves ok, he's just... not graceful), etc. etc. It would be better for the sport and for the competitors. You wouldn't have someone like Jason stagnating with some backwater coach.

In addition, r130, the brand new program was essentially the old program set to different music. She really hasn't grown as a skater.

With the Salchow not But with the Lutz he could have made it.....His 1Lz had a 0.66 base value. 3Lz in the second half is 6.60..

r133 Agreed. The one thing I will say, is the La La Land program was... nice. It's not good, it's not bad it's just nice! I have no problems with it.

But how could she have not learned her lesson? She had to ditch her slutty program before last Olympics and that whole debacle likely contributed to her poor performance at Nationals 4 years ago. Why would she stick with a routine we're ALL sick of (judges included) and then throw in a tossed together program that isn't mature. On top of that to claim that she's "a performer!" Yes in the same way that some old warhorse cabaret singer in Branson Missouri is a performer trotting out the same dull shit year after year, and we aren't sending Yakhov Smirnof to the Olympics just as we aren't sending you.

Finally - I think it is fair to question what was going on with some of her performance scores, but that should come from her publicist/coach/team whatever. She should smile solemnly and say things like "I gave it my best, but I left points on the ice, and others had great skates. Congratulations"

Could catch, r134. I had forgotten about the bonus for the second half of a program.

Skip to 14:25 where the President of US Figure Skating basically tells Wagner to STFU and breaks down why she didn't get the scores she thought she deserved.

When is the Free Dance starting?

Mitchell:;

“Time will tell. This is the third time for me. Myself in 92, my student Katrina Hacker for worlds in 2008, and now Ross in 2018. Three strikes and your out”

“I’ll let you know when I have a final answer. It will be very difficult to continue to encourage kids to work hard and do your best and hopefully your dreams will come true when I know this is not the truth. “

Maybe I should have used "Looking Through the Eyes of Love." Always a winner.

It would have been delicious if Mirai had changed her program to Moonlight and beaten Ashley.

[quote]But how could she have not learned her lesson? She had to ditch her slutty program before last Olympics and that whole debacle likely contributed to her poor performance at Nationals 4 years ago.

I don't remember the details of this. Please fill me in!

Sending skaters who go splat! during Nationals (one of the few televised skating events anyone watches anymore) to the Olympics is a huge mistake.

That giant sucking sound you hear is the sound of US figure skating fans tuning out of the sport.

r124 Who knows. Probably at Au Bon Pain getting lunch.

Men Olympics field by ISU Season Best

** assuming it is Kolyada and Samarin for Russia, Chan as first Canadian spot and Boyang and Han for China, and that Swedish Olympic Committee allow Majorov to go instead of returning the spot back

** ignoring Canadian second spot because I don't have a clue on who will get it

Shoma UNO (JPN) 319.84

Nathan CHEN (USA) 293.78

Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 290.77

Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 283.71

Mikhail KOLYADA (RUS) 282.00

Adam RIPPON (USA) 266.45

Boyang JIN (CHN) 264.48

Misha GE (UZB) 258.34

Vincent ZHOU (USA) 256.66

Han YAN (CHN) 254.61

Alexander SAMARIN (RUS) 253.13

Jorik HENDRICKX (BEL) 253.06

Alexei BYCHENKO (ISR) 252.07

Moris KVITELASHVILI (GEO) 250.26

Keiji TANAKA (JPN) 247.17

Patrick CHAN (CAN) 245.70

Michal BREZINA (CZE) 237.04

Deniss VASILJEVS (LAT) 234.80

Yaroslav PANIOT (UKR) 233.16

Brendan KERRY (AUS) 233.05

Matteo RIZZO (ITA) 232.98

Denis TEN (KAZ) 228.81

Alexander MAJOROV (SWE) 225.04

Julian Zhi Jie YEE (MAL) 220.67

Daniel SAMOHIN (ISR) 219.75

Paul FENTZ (GER) 212.16

Junhwan CHA (KOR) 210.32

Chafik BESSEGHIER (FRA) 203.69

Felipe MONTOYA (ESP) 193.09

Good luck with that, Ashley at R140.

The judges would also have to go blind.

r142 Ashley had started off that season skating a Romeo Juliet themed program. It was... almost offensively bad. If you thought hip hip wink was bad, this was something else entirely. Everyone hated the program from the time it premiered, but Ashley went ahead and skated it anyway, and everyone said that it showed she hadn't grown. She skated Juliet as... characterless but slutty when it should be passionate and strong (Prokofiev's music is nothing if not bombastic and strong).

It was terrible, and she ditched it to go back to Samson and Delilah for the Olympics. Which - while a better program, but the luster had come off and people realized all she could be was stylistically alluring.

Even Johnny and Tara hated Romeo and Juliet, they thought the skate was not feminine or strong and mentioned that it made her lack of balletic movement really killed her allure. Without the Delilah to fall back as sultry character, she just came off as basic and slutty.

You'd think in a sport where there are coaches and a federation, you could sit someone down and say - hey, this is not for you, here's a program. Grow or die.

Who cares about rippon vs miner, both would probably end up 8-10th at the Olympics. Chen's our only hope.

Is Patrick Chan still a frankenstein faced self-important ass (with, I'll admit, a great ass) now that he's no longer anywhere near the top of the sport? Has he been humbled at all by his mediocrity?

Also the very possiblity of Olympic Champion Shoma Uno must be killing the Shoma is a rat-faced goblin troll.

Ashley's coach is also Adam's coach (and Nathan's coach. And Mariah's coach)....when this summer Adam proposed to have himself sining a cover of Rhianna's Diamonds as SP...he said "interesting idea"...

thankfully they decided to drop it...but it was choreographed. I mean, they really tried it...

R149

in order

yes

no

yes

So Patrick Chan is not even in the medal hunt? What happened?

R150, ugh.

This trend of skaters singing their own music MUST BE STOPPED.

It makes the skater seem like an annoying, precocious child star you just want to slap across the face. Shut up and skate, kid.

Sucks for, Ross. I would have sent him, but I am still married to the Trial system skating used to go by. Barring an unforeseen circumstance, like an accomplished skater petitioning due to injury, for the most part USFSA always went by National results to decide Olympic and World teams.

Those days are obviously gone. The message to coaches and skaters is clear: Every! Competition! Counts!

The days of phoning it in are over. Everyone knows Worlds and the Olympics are the only accolades that truly matter in skating, but it isn't enough to skate like crap the whole season and then peak at Nationals. You have to be "on" all season, at every event, otherwise you risk putting yourself in positions like Ross was in come crunch time.

If he skated better the past 2 seasons, and had a better track record backing his 2nd place finish, he would be going.

It sorta eliminates the underdog element of competition, but in the end it might produce more consistency if skaters knew that a bad skate (even in a B-level event) might come back to haunt them later when/if they were being considered for a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Chan did only one event this season, Skate Canada. He bombed the FS there, imploded mentally and then disappeared. He withdrew from the other GP event he had. He quit his coaching base in Michigan to come back to Vancouver. He is training there. We will see next week at Canadian Nationals in what conditions he is

The problem though of expecting an athlete to hit at all competitions and create a "body of work," can only backfire. They spend all year punishing their bodies both physically and mentally and then by the time the Olympics roll around they're injured or a mental basket case... so yeah, it might be better to send some fresh upstart who's on their way up rather than a skater who has a "body of work," whose trajectory is down.

Not that they'd ever change the rules but perhaps the only way someone who finishes out of the top 3 should be "considered" for a placement on an Olympic Team is if 1) they were a medalist at the most recent Worlds and/or a legitimate contender for a medal or 2) they are injured and unable to compete at the Nationals -- although I'd still say they should only be given consideration if they were a recent Medalist and/or a contender for a medal.

R156 nails it.

Smart training and smart coaching is required to peak at the right time. If you peaked in 2016, and your dream is to win an Olympic medal, they you haven’t done your job and your body of work means nothing.

Exactly, R158!!!! I agree with you 100%

Now go tell that to poor, Kim Z, tee hee!!!!

I don't like this whole "body of work" thing, but if it's used I think it should be limited to three competitions: recent Nationals, last year's Worlds, and last year's Nationals, with perhaps a 2:1:1 weighting.

r159 Agree whole heartedly. Actually, it's best if you just don't peak at all and your coach can just get you on the team without merit. That sounds lovely.

Does anyone see a reply at 161? Comes up empty as though it doesn't exist. Oh, it doesn't.

BBA! Big beautiful ass.

I don't care how proficient robot Chen is, I would much rather watch the artistry and grace of Jason Brown with all his jumping problems than watch Chen's rigid perfection. I wish they gave more weight to the beauty and elegance of the sport

Patrick Chan's eyes look..... special.

Does Chan have a consistent quad yet?

,,,,,,,,

is anyone keeping a running total of warhorses of those selected for Olympics?

How many Moulin Rouge? How many Swan Lakes? Has any Phantom of the Opera qualified yet?

I don't care about the skate. Just his ass.

r164 That's insane. And Chen isn't nearly as robotic as... who was that woman who used to just do like 40 triple jumps in her long program before they put the cap on?

But saying Adam is better than Chen even on an entertainment level is like saying its more entertaining to see Barack Obama skiing than it is Lindsay Vaughn. Uh... maybe? But we're not gonna send him to the Olympics.

Nobody is going to mistake Nathan for a Robin Cousins, but he's not the worst in terms of artistry.

All skaters have good asses.

Chan is really hard to watch. He's always skating some variation on Mack the Knife, always throwing himself into every jump, with no care if he lands it, since he was the first to figure out it was better to fall on a "fully rotated" quad than to land a gorgeous triple. The "artistry" was telegraphed and mimeographed, and watching him start popping jumps isn't satisfying at all.

Didn't he win a Skate Canada a few years ago despite falling 3 or 4 times?

[Quote] All skaters have good asses.

Not all but nice try, Ashley.

Wish I could say the same thing about gymnasts. I was fine, but some of my teammates could have used quite a bit of help. One be-pontytailed bitch in particular.

Male figure skaters do often have great asses, but many have the upper bodies of Steven Hawking.

Are you thinking of Elaine Zayak, r170? And, to make matters worse, all Zayak's triples were toe loops, salchows, and loops although, to be fair, not many women were doing triple flips and lutzes then (and certainly not triple axels).

r175 YES! That's exactly who I was thinking of.

Chen is a far more appealing skater than her and many others. He's not graceful and he's not fluid, but he's not unappealing as a skater. I think the bigger problem is the first 1/3rd of his long program is deliberately under-choreographed because they have to give him room to rearrange his quads depending on how he's doing for the day. I get allowing for variability has served him well, but it makes the first part of his program uncaptivating.

They should just have him skate to some global crowd pleasing song. Like Queen or INXS or something where he doesn't need any actual choreography, the music does all the work for him on getting the crowd on his side. Ross Miner skated well and cleanly, but its not like he was doing much in the way of artistry. People just liked his routine because its familiar and crowd pleasing music.

Plus Chen's spins have increased 5 fold in the last year. Give him credit.

If you don't have a skill, find a good way to paper over it like Miner (just do it more often and not simply once in a 4 year cycle!)

I agree with you, r176, about Chen's skating. His artistry might not be a huge strength but, in my opinion, it's not a glaring weakness either. His speed on the ice, solid spins, and spectacular jumps are more than enough to hold my interest. And I totally agree with you about choice of music. A better selection would have helped Chen enormously.

Does Ashley Wagner's pussy stink?

They surgically cut Miner out of the pic like he never existed

United States Olympic Committee wrote

"Rippon is expected to be the first, or one of the first, openly gay man to compete for the U.S. at the Winter Olympics."

are they unsure if he is the first? they could have missed an homosexual somewhere

Wasn't Timothy Gayboy out at Nagano?

Oops, I meant SLC 2002. ^

R179, and why does Adam Rippon have a medal around his neck?

R183 because USFSA give medals to 4th placed...the pewter medal!

I think Goebel came out later but I am not sure

He got married last year

Good for him! But boy does he look aged. Maybe that's just a bad angle^

In other words, R180:

“When all else fails, find a social justice angle to justify our dumb decision.”

Boitano (84, 88, 94), Goebel (02), Savoie (06), and Weir (10) all came out after competing in the Olympics.

The US Olympic Committee website write up of the selection

On Rippon: "He had a stellar short at the 2018 U.S. championships that put him in second, but made several mistakes in the free skate and fell to fourth; however, his Olympic spot was saved by his international successes."

On Zhou:" He struggled to remain consistent throughout this season, finishing fourth and ninth at his grand prix assignments, but earned bronze at nationals with an attempted five quads in his long (he fell on one and three were under-rotated)."

They stopped short to write "why are we sending these crap skaters?"

It’s a travesty that they continue to call it “figure skating.” It should be called “ice skating” until and unless they restore compulsory figures to the sport that was named for them. Or maybe “ice skating with jumping tricks.”

“ice skating with jumping tricks.”

how we fit ice dance in?

Wow, r185, maybe it's his shorter hair, but I would not have recognized him in that pic.

[quote] “ice skating with jumping tricks.”

Stop being so cruel to Ashley Wagner! Isn't it bad enough she missed out on the Olympics?

Vincent is like a cheap bootleg version of Nathan. And I don't even like Nathan all that much.

There was also an Ice Dancer who skated in Torino 2006 who then came out when he retired..can't remember his name...he and the girl who skated with were weak. Got it only as USA had 3 spots

Ryan O'Meara...I had to check

Jamie Silverstein/Ryan O'Meara...16th in Torino 2006 Olympics

Agree, R190. They should restore compulsory figures because it will force skaters to learn how to SKATE.

I know the argument is that figures are too boring for the viewing audience. Therefore, they should show the compulsory figures like a Busby Berkeley-type production and use cool computer graphics to show viewers what figure the skater is expected to trace so they can how far off the mark they are.

Better yet, throw random, computer-generated images at the skaters. It’ll be fun to watch who succeeds and who crumbles!

Ice Dance is at last group

McNamara / Carpenter are leading with 175.19. So they will finish in top 6 and get their trip to 4 Continents

In an alternate universe, Miner places 1st, Zhou 2nd, Chen 3rd, and Rippon 4th. What does the selection committee do then?

We relent. Miner gets FIRST alternate!

I forgot Randy Gardner (76-80).

1956 silver medalist Ronnie Robertson was also gay, but he never publicly came out before his death in 2000.

I think there was also a lesser pairs skater in 72 or 76 who later died of AIDS.

I feel bad for Ross. Skating is so elitist and so corrupt, I am almost certain that shenanigans are involved. Trends in skating come and go, and right now Team USA is in a freefall - they have been since before Code of Points. We only promote and support the women instead of all disciplines. It's frustrating to watch anymore. I will be rooting for Javier Fernandez.

I love Chen but I do laugh at the term "Chenbot" because it's kind of true.

Have the Shibsibs skated?

R203 not yet

now Parsons boy is trying to lift Parson girl

then Hawayek/Baker

then Incest Twins

H/D

and Chock/Bates

R200, was Robertson the guy who was Tab Hunter's boyfriend? And, uhmmmm, shall we not mention Dick Button?

Parsons/Parsons FD lower than McNamara/Carpenter

But they should stay ahead overall

176.07 vs 175.19

Argh, I can't stomach watching the Shib-bot incest twins win yet another National title with their oatmeal skating, which will all but secure them (at the very least) an Olympic Bronze. Blech.

So pissed that H/D, yet again, dropped the ball and failed to seize the small window of opportunity the judges offered them to overtake the Shib-bots. They obviously want to give it to them, but H/D keep making stupid mistakes that cost them levels.

I think Chen, Zhou and Rippon were the right selection for the team. Rippon appeals to the international judges more than Miner, and that matters a lot. Even if the top skaters had trouble, a clean skate by Miner at the Olympics still wouldn't medal. Rippon, however, might squeak in a medal if the top skaters struggle and he skates clean. But neither Rippon nor Miner are likely to get a medal. I think the USFSA was just playing the odds and know that Rippon's programs are some of the best out there internationally. Miner skated the program of his life. He should be proud. I'm sure that's cold comfort to him, but he had to know he faced an uphill battle getting on the team with just one skate of a lifetime. Zhou has several quads, and whether it's right or not, quads matter more than anything to the international judges. Getting Zhou an Olympic experience is wise at this point as he may be our best show in 2022 for a medal. He's the future.

I also agree with the women's team choices. Wager's program seemed a bit lackluster. Someone upthread mentioned she just recycled her program from Moulin Rouge to music for La La Land. I think that was a key part of the problem. The choreography seemed like it didn't fit the music very well. Now I know why. Christine Brennan lists some of the reasons why Wagner wasn't selected in the attached link.

Christine Brennan is biased as hell and an Ashley fanfrau. Nothing is Ashley's fault... she's such a victim!!!

Here come the incest twins!

Shibutanis now

There are some warhorses that I get: Swan Lake, Firebird, Carmen. They all come with audience appeal, the right amount of bombast, and they're easy to interpret because they have a pre-defined character. I give Oksana credit for applying the Swan Lake character to different music. That was gutsy and it paid off. But other than that, I get why a mediocre skater in seniors or a poor skater would pick one of those three.

I can also understand the appeal of musical theater for men and disney for women. Phantom, Les Mis, etc. (Although, I guess people steer clear of Beauty and the Beast because of the long shadow of Nancy Kerrigan, or at least the long shadow of her teeth). Again, pre-engrained nostalgia, simple characters, etc. I cannot fathom why Max Aaron would choose the movie version of phantom which was horrific, and its especially galling because his family has money and can afford a coaching team with taste.

However - I do not get: 1. Josh Groban You Raise Me Up, 2. Assorted Groban/Andrea Bocelli operatic warbling, 3. Moulin Rouge. REPEATED AD NAUSEUM. None of them are great to listen to and none of them allow for particularly thrilling or emotional programs. Plus, we've seen about 1000000 of them at this point. This year there were 2 Sounds of Silences at Nationals in men alone as well.

I hate mumford and son typically, but the short program skate to Awake My Soul was surprisingly engaging just because it was so unexpected and it works well in terms of build. I'm not saying we should all go Jimmy Ma (which I think even he even admits is a gimmick he'd kick at the drop of a hat if he thought he had a chance at a medal), but what is wrong with people! There were better and even more varied music selections when the music was restricted to no vocals.

Shibutanis not doing well

they don't beat the FS to Hawayek/Baker

Hubbell/Donoheu are going to win

H/D better fucking seize this moment! It won't come again! Take it bitches, it's yours!

They can't even do their fake smile

They are stone faced.

Between GPF and this they have thrown away the assurance of that bronze medal. Now it's up for grab

we will end up Bobrova....

And Zueva needs that bronze for the Shibutani.

She tried to enter the Singles market but she failed

She doesn't have many teams now and none of them promising for the future

Now that was very sexy. Wow!

Beautiful!

Hubbell / Donohue have won

Gadbois sweep at Olympics?

Igor at least have 200 tier II teams.

Zueva have, well, the various Reed siblings...

Did he just propose to her?

FUCKING YEESSSS! H/D! FINALLY!

THE SHIB-BOT REIGN IS OVER!!!

R219

Hubbell and Donohue are not dating

Hubbell is dating Diaz of Smart/Diaz

Donohue is dating Smart of Smart/Diaz

TES dropped a lot compared to first call

but it's enough to win

H/D won by 0.19....too close for comfort, but it's a pivotal turning point for them. They will be the leading Americans leading into the Olympics.

Chock/Bates have 4 elements under review. First call is Level 4 for all of them. If they don't drop they may win it....ahaha

one dropped to 3 now

This Imagine “duet” proves the song should never, ever be sung in a high-pitched little girl voice.

Wow. What happened?! Is somebody psychologically destroying every top skater in the US? VERA WANG IS THAT YOU?!

Also how does one fuck of up a free dance? Like - I get it if you catch a blade on a twizzle, you'll lose a few points, but how do you possibly screw up a free dance? The only people who I could have even conceived of just losing it were Davis/White in Scheherazade because that opening lift was so insane (and they almost whiffed it during the olympic free!) and the closing 40 seconds were unbelievably fast... but what are the Shibs skating to? Coldplay again? Something banal? HOW DO YOU SCREW THAT UP?!

Alex better agree to going down on Vera for the next year and a half if he is going to get that Olympic medal.

Also now what will the US do for the Team Trophy? Clearly they aren't switching out pairs that'd be insane. They should rest Victor given the propensity for injury, but that leaves them with Mr. Consistency to choke again. I would have said keep the ShibSibs in for both and just get safe bronze points, but now what? Shibs on short and H/D on free?!

How do we live in a world where we are relying on the Shibutanis for THEIR LATIN DANCE ABILITIES. Ugh.

Send Ashley Wagner and Ross Miner as an ice dancing duo. Ashley can shake her flat ass for Latin Dance and Ross can let the music convince the judges he has a personality. Then H/D can do the free.

Shit...are C/B going to win this?

Still reviewing the Combination Spin

it's 118.99t if the Combination Spin holds at Level 4

196.60

Are C/B fundies?

Why is OP "lined out? "

Am I the only one who sorta wishes Ashley was going just for the LOL drama factor?

r234 No. Ashley agrees with you.

R233 It's not lined out on my screen. But the previous figure skating thread was! I don't know why

Madison Chock really is beautiful. Evan Bates is... an alive person?

H/D win! YAY! Finally! Best result of this championship.

Are the Shibutani alive? Have they killed anyone yet?

R232. No

[Bold] r236, it's line out for me. Is Ashley posting on the DL now?

Ashley is jealous of all the attention bottom Kevin bottom is getting and has taken out her anger on the thread. Or Vera Wang's army of spies are angry that we are on to her voodoo. Or it's Kim Zmeskal ruining everyone's fun again and generally just being the worst.

Actually I have no idea, but it is lined out for me too. I never figured out what that meant? That a lot of non-participants are ff'ing the thread because its been so active the past few days? It'll stop being as active now that nationals are over. At least until the olympics start.

R237 No-one look at the poor bland Evan Bates....actually no-one look at who Chock skates with.

When she was with Zuerlein it was the same. Apart for the ice dancer judge who then married Greg...I suppose "fuckability" is one of the items considered in PCS

It's the Russians. They're angry that you bitches are talking about skating and Olympic golds, and meanwhile they can't even represent !

Surely we can't miss the 4 Continents....

Could someone ask Charlie White to please stop jerking off to Imagine while on the air? "Such and important message", jesus h christ-it's just ice dance.

[quote] "Such and important message", jesus h christ-it's just ice dance.

exactly. let's stop this trend. let's stop lyrical ice dance. we want Phantom of the Opera back

r244 Nice try Ashley.

One of the trashiest FD of the teams qualified for Olympics...The Slovak couple doing Cabaret

r245 I don't get it. We were doing culturally deep and moving ice dance nearly a decade ago.

R248, excellent, i love trashy

I am not sure who the most bitching expression on the podium between Alex and Madison

r248 I don't see what the big deal is, that's not even close to the trashiest ice dancing I've seen in the last 4 years. I also like their leg outstretched twizzles (although she looks more like she's doing traveling spins than twizzles and their synchro isn't great)

Full trashy make up for Pirates of the Caribbean FD of the Ukrainian Nazarova/Nikitin

r253 Eek. Now that is a shitty program. Also he should pin down that vest or risk getting called as a prop/costume violation. That routine makes no sense. The steps don't seem to match the music let alone a coherent theme and they just seem to be getting from one end of the ice to the other as fast as possible.

I love the new era of ice dancing, but I wish there was a way for the scoring to take off points when teams don't have deep and well-maintained edges. The compulsory dance was a bore, but given the new state of technology, at least you could use video overlay to point out which teams weren't cutting deep edges and who was cheating on corners.

R254 that thing scored 97.55. 8.32 for Composition......

r255 Huh. That's perplexing. It's certainly a difficult routine. But it's like they took all of the things Davis/White got credit for and none of the things Davis/White actually did well: having routines that were thought out to maximize drama from the very first movement, incredibly athletic and precision edges, and a good editor (there was drama, but it wasn't just drama pause drama pause lift pause drama all the way through).

That Ukrainian piece is like Fast and the Furious 3: Tokyo Drift on Ice. It's a hollow imitation of what came before it and designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Which brings up the point, Ashley should have skated to Pirates of the Caribbean.

LOL r241!!!!!!!!

Is bottom Kevin bottom going to be at the 4C?

Talk about Rudy Galindo's National Championship this week, so I checked in on him. He coaches Kristi Yamaguchi's daughter, Emma, as I'm sure many of you know. Found this cute pic, if anyone is interested.

[quote]Why is OP "lined out? "

Is this thread lined out? Awwwww. So either Ashley's pissed or its the weird Tonya fan who is mad that I repeatedly told them that I, Tonya was not a Documentary.

Wait, Brian Boitano is out?

.......

This thread is lined out, Brian Boitano is glass closeted out Kim Z is out of bounds And Ashley Clomp Clomp is out of the Olympics.

Everything is as it should be.

Wow, Brennan really loves her some Wagner, doesn't she? Is she honestly saying that Wagner shouldn't have been left off the team because Wagner criticized Trump and Putin and she does great marketing for USFS?

Okay, the Russian girls know how to jump. Does that mean Wagner should get a free pass for her two-footed landings, screwed up jumps etc, just because she goes around the ice shaking her ass? Is Brennan saying judges are only rewarding jumps and not artistry? Really? Then why is Katelyn Osmond getting such great marks for her Edith Piaf SP?

Brennan needs to suck it up like Wagner needs to and realize that the reason Wagner isn't on the team isn't because of the judges - it's because of Wagner. She screwed up her combo in the short program and screwed up two jumps in the long. That's what lost your place on the team, sweetie, and complaining that you didn't get the right marks because "I'M A PERFORMER!" doesn't cut it.

Amen, R264. And look at how well Carolina is still doing even with her low tech content. Look at Satoko's success. They, of course, have artistry that isn't limited to hip shimmies and O-faces, so Ashley fails against them as well.

Brennan must be getting paid to do PR for Ashley. She is just embarrassing.

Christine Brennan has always been odd when it comes to her coverage of the sports. It's always been obvious she has her favorites and they never do any wrong, nor are they ever to blame for anything.

I can't believe Evan Lysasuck won a gold medal.

Saw the free dance at the arena today--I've never been a big Hubbell/Donahue fan, but they're gorgeous and charismatic in person--and even during the warm-up, you could tell that they were "on." The ShibSibs looked a little tense, but, man, when Maia stumbled, I was shocked. The Shibs are usually like clockwork. They had the biggest no. of fans in the audience--took forever for the little skate girls to pick up all the fake roses and stuffed animals--Hubbell/Donahue just kind of skated around them for a while.

But even with a pro-Shib crowd, everybody just kind of knew that Hubbell/Donahue were on fire and deserved the FS win--just a matter of waiting to see if they were ahead on the whole thing. Poor Chock & Bates had to follow all of that--they were fine, but they weren't larger-than-life sex-on-a-stick the way Hubbell/Donahue were.

I was sitting in front of either Hubbell or Donahue's mother--lots of congratulations coming her way from various skaters passing by. They clearly all know one another and this is the annual village gathering.

The Shibbots are fantastic!

Seeing Alex give major bitch-face was fun. I knew all that goody goody, PR rehearsed bullshit was all an act. Either do the plastic fake smile when the camera is on, or fucking say something honest about your feelings when interviewed. Don't just sit there all pouty, and then give PC robotic answers.

Either be plastic or be human. None of this in-between bullshit.

Both the ShibSibs and Chock/Bates were really upset--you could see it in how they stood--Maia's pinched smile. Meanwhile, both Hubbell/Donahue and the Pewter winners Hayawak/Baker (who were really competing against P/P, P/B, Mc/C) were looking pretty damned pleased, it made for an interesting medal ceremony. Neither the ShibSibs or C/B could really fake it--they know that this was really about the Olympic bronze.

Patrice Lauzon is one hot looking coach.

R268 re: Maia's slip. Tanith said on tv that Alex and Maia had tweaked that step sequence (for artistic /PCS reasons - paraphrase) that is, since the GP Final. Too bad it got away from Maia. I like them and I like the other US ice dance pairs, too . H/D were interviewed on tv after their performance. They were happy because they believe they can do even more with their program and increase their levels and score.

Do we have any medal chances outside Chen?

We stand a very good chance to get a bronze in dance... all of the 3 couples are going to be in the mix.

Pairs... Top 8 would be a win.

We shouldn't have a shot in ladies, but I have this weird gut feeling that Tennell could somehow sneak into the medals. She'll have to be perfect, and one of the top skaters will have to collapse, but the way she seemed to come out of nowhere has this whole Oksana Baiul thing going on. She might just be the crazy dark horse.... or she might wilt under pressure and finish 12th. I could see it going either way, really.

Yes, hot ....but in a maniacal , Ted Bundy kind of way.

Yeah, of the 6 ice dance couples in the grand prix final, three were American and went three, four, five. The Gold and Silver will be duked out between Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir, but the Bronze is extremely likely to go to an American team. All three American teams have now won the U.S. Nationals during the last quad and both the Shibs and Chock & Bates have been World Silver medalists.

I wasn't sure after his messy win at the Grand Prix, but I'm now pretty certain Nathan Chen will get a medal of some color--he seems to have gotten his long a bit more under control. The big question mark to me is Hanyu--will he be there and in what kind of shape--he's a more a fluid skater than Chen, but a bit of a headcase.

R275, Yeah, I also have a hunch Bradie, now with full federation backing, might sneak in there. She's got the the technical content, a well-choreographed program (backloading, lots of difficulty, a story viewers can follow) and nerves under pressure. Her upper body and arms are stiff, but that's not where the scores are. She'll need some frontrunners to blow it, but those sort of things happen at the Olympics.

And, frankly, it's to everyone's advantage if the U.S. breaks its Ladies medal drought--interest in the sport has dropped off dramatically here--and the U.S. is a big audience and, historically, views Ladies ice skating as the signature Winter Olympics sport.

Bradie's a long shot, but she's actually playing the game in terms of technical content.

Oh, and Russ Miner deserves way better treatment--second alternate to both the Olympics AND Worlds? WTF? Like Jason Brown or Adam Rippon will actually win anything? I sort of see the case for Rippon--maybe--but Brown, too? C'mon. The optics of this are awful, don't know what the fed thinks it's doing by adding insult to injury with that second alternate nonsense.

r275 I'm not getting a lack of confidence from Tennell, I think she'll do good at the Olympics, she's looking automatic right now. Whether that's good enough for a medal who knows.

Miner got shafted and then some. Passed over for 3 guys who finished behind him and essentially given the same rewards as 9th place Aaron. As much as I hate to say it (as I like Miner a lot more than I like Rippon), I could see a case for replacing him for Olympics OR Worlds, but not both. Send Miner to the Olympics and send Rippon to Worlds (where a higher finish matters in terms of number of entries for 2019 Worlds). If you have Chen and Zhou in the team competition, then Miner doesn't do anything to spoil US chances there. Or send Rippon to Olympics and Miner to Worlds (as is generally customary for the top 3 finishers). Even when Mitchell got bumped in 1992, he was sent to Worlds as sort of a consolation prize.

Of course, there's probably a decent chance Miner could still end up at Worlds. If Chen medals, I bet he skips Worlds, and Rippon has been before, so depending on how he does at the Olympics, he may just end his career there. If Brown is hurt, he might decide to skip too... I see several paths for Miner to get there.

I also feel bad for Hochstein. Sure, he never had a shot for the Olympics, really, but he was passed over for Four Continents in favor of Mr. Choke himself, Max Aaron. Two 9th place finishes in a row for Aaron are a greater "body of work" than Hochstein's 2 solid programs?

I actually went back and watched some old Nicole Bobek performances on youtube. Sure, she could be a hot mess at times, but when she was on, she was fantastic. There was an element of excitement to her skating that's missing from most these days, and even as a 16 year old, she could outperform pretty much all of today's ladies.

It's obvious, isn't it ? God hates Ross Miner. (eye roll)

Is Ross a fundie too? He always had that conservative vibe but I don't want to jump to conclusions. He feels kind of like a relic from the 90s in his skating. Still, I'd rather watch him than Zhou.

r277 I too feel bad for Russ Miner. Just as I felt bad for Kim Kellogg.

Or whoever.

But sometimes you just need to do what's best for the team and the country and send someone consistent and perky, and provide them with a reliable, workmanlike asian american for support.

It's the American way.

[quote]Is Ross a fundie too? He always had that conservative vibe but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

I doubt it.

His coaches, Mark Mitchell and Peter Johansson, are both gay and (I believe) in a relationship. After Ross' electric free skate, he seemed very emotional with them, hugging them strongly with tears in his eyes. You can tell there was a lot of mutual love and respect there.

If he were a fundie, I doubt he'd be comfortable being coached by two gay dudes, much less be so affectionate with them.

He might be religious, but not the hateful fundie type.

But that's just my guess. I've seen weirder contradictions before, so you never know.

Ross with pictured with his coach below.

I don't have any first-hand knowledge, but I never got any sort of conservative/fundie vibe from Miner. He's from Vermont/Massachusetts, not exactly a stronghold of conservatism, and he seems to be well liked by his fellow competitors, including the gay ones. He really seems like kind of a nice, regular dude. I find him kind of cute in a regular guy kind of way, but he's got a pretty smokin' girlfriend, skater Heidi Munger.

r285 I agree. I think he's refreshingly cute. Nothing to take out an ad in the times for, but the kind of guy you feel ok taking home over Christmas. I hope he comes out of this a better stronger person. He deserves some success and happiness.

Ross is a cutie. Not a model or anything, but great smile and totally boyfriend material. His hair is going, unfortunately, but he's straight so he'll be fine.

How big do you think Alex Shibbot's penis is? I'll bet he's a horny fucker! He's totally gay even if he gets married and has kids. He's going out late at night and getting dick and fucking ass.

While Tim Dolensky seems very fundie, I would definitely do him. This video!!!

You can tell Tim Dolensky is battling internally with his fundie roots and his inner queen by the trickle of shirtless pictures he's been posting lately. Young gay boys can't resist showing off their bodies on social media for attention. It's like a moth to a flame.

After they come out, the flood of nalf-naked selfies quickly follows, along with over-plucked eyebrows and sometime highlights. Never fails.

Just look at Adam Rippon, Guillaume Cizeron, Eric Radford's instagrams...so many shirtless selfies.

why are McNamara/Carpenter alternate number 2 for Worlds instead than Parsons/Parsons (who are alternate number 3)?

r290 Are you trying to talk about my body of work? Yes, I've been very consistent. The committee has made a decision based on my consistency over the season and my body of work. I am Consistent. Body of Work. My Consistency. Committee. Consistent. I. Body. Consistent. Work. Work. Body. Work. Body. Consistent.

Body of work.

Body work.

Body.

Body.

(please hit reset)

R292 maybe by "body of work" they meant who slept with the higher number of committee members.

I can't believe that this thread is lined out, lol. Ashley Wagner fans really are insane.

R294 it's not lined out because of Ashley Wagner fans.

Ashely wasn't at the Gala yesterday. I suppose they invited her as 4th place in Ice Dance and Jason Brown were there.

Then, R295?

Miner's girlfriend

#WEWANTROSS #rosswasrobbed #mjmstrong #justiceforross #mindheartguts #rossminer

R297 you blocked a post made by the OP? Deliberately or by mistake/inadvertently? The website is very tetchy. It is very sticky sometimes also refreshing just as you go to touch one thread...

No, that's not it, R299. And that's not how threads lined out works. It only happens if someone works overtime to FF the thread. So Ashley it is!

The Shibutanis are trying to pretend they have taken it well...but they haven't

Ice Dance has become wide open

SD to S/S

FD to C/B

Overall to H/D

Sign that Miner is a class act. His only tweet (and he rarely tweets) is a retweet of a congratulatory message from some little kids.

Adam Rippon, at least, has been killing it most of the season--but Jason Brown? Who's on his last legs thanks to chronic injuries?

This all goes back to the committee screwing over Victor Zhou last year and not sending him to Worlds after winning silver. Huge outcry if they don't send him this year, but he's still not reliable. So they bump poor old Miner for a more reliable skater.

The alternate stuff is still insult to injury though. It shows a basic lack of respect for both Miner and their own damn competitions.

I honestly don't know why they ever paired these two together.

It limits them too much as brother/sister, and they aren't imaginative, creative or daring enough to overcome that limitation and develop captivating non-romantic programs.

I feel bad for Maia. She had potential to be a champion many times over if she were paired with someone like Charlie White or Zachary Donohue.

Skate Canada criteria for Olympic selection:

The HPDC will exercise discretion with regard to the relative weight and priority of the Selection Criteria as well as other relevant factors deemed appropriate in their decision making process and will take into account, in no specific order, the following criteria:

Medalist at the 2016, and/or the 2017 ISU World Figure Skating Championships

Placement at the 2018 Canadian Tire National Figure Skating Championships

Top 10 placement at the 2016 and/or 2017 ISU World Figure Skating Championships

Top 6 placement at the 2016 and/or 2017 ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships

Qualifying for the 2015/2016, 2016/2017, and/or 2017/2018 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final and/or the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final

Other relevant criteria deemed appropriate for selection

They are as elusive as possible. They can decide the weighting of different events as they prefer.

I am pretty sure Chan, Duhamel/Radford; Osmond and Daleman will be picked regardless of their performance this week

Chartrand doesn't meet any criteria (well, except "Other relevant criteria deemed appropriate for selection"). So she needs to finish third.

Reynolds has a top 10 finish at 2017 Worlds. Other men don't meet any other listed criteria except Sadovsky who has a JGP Final in 2015. Given his disastrous season so far, I don't think Reynolds can be saved by his 2017 top 10. I think they will go accordingly to Nationals placement. Except that Joseph Phan can't be selected as he doesn't have the TES in a Senior competition.

I am most interested in Pairs. I/M have top 10 Worlds 2016 and 2017, top 6 4CCs 2016 and 2017. S/B have GP Final 2016 and 2017. MM/M have top 10 World 2016. So I/M have met more criteria...but would it be enough if they finish 4th Nationals with a score close to the other 2 pairs?

First half of Grand Prix

MM/M 194.52 at Cup of China S/B 186.16 at Rostelecom Cup I/M t176.35 at Skate Canada

Second half of Grand Prix

S/B 194.37 at NHK I/M t193.07 at Internationaux de France MM/M 187.81 at Skate America

R281 here. I'm sorry for anyone thought I was implying that Ross is a fundie. I don't believe he is. He does seem like a nice guy and as a figure skating Mary, I feel terrible for him.

Adam Rippon tweeted today that Ross Miner was one of the "nicest and best humans I've ever met," so PR aside, I doubt he'd have tweeted quite that if Miner was an asshole fundie.

Meanwhile, both Gracie Gold and Polina Edmunds came out on Twitter in support of Vincent Zhou being on the team.

Speaking of which, what happened to the Gracie Gold troll, who insisted that Little Miss G would show up at Nationals with a triple axle-triple flip combination?

[quote]Meanwhile, both Gracie Gold and Polina Edmunds came out on Twitter in support of Vincent Zhou being on the team.

Why shouldn't he be? It's not like he just gave up in the middle of his program and finished out of the medals and required his mommy on the selection committee to place him on the team?

Vincent Zhou got the job done, as did Ross and Nathan. Adam is the one going to the Olympics on a charity pass.

I agree R310, but there's been a fair amount of talk on the skating boards that it should have been instead of Miner kicked off in place of Rippon--a la Mirai Nagasu in 2014. There is still a group of Mirai Nagasu supporters who think Edmonds, who came out of nowhere to win silver at Nationals, should have been kicked off the 2014 team.

I know, but that's ridiculous, R312. In reality, Wagner shouldn't have been given a pass, period.

I really want to know why she was a no-show at the gala. Was she busy still sulking or did they actually disinvite her? Seems hard to believe it was the latter, but she loves the spotlight and you'd think she's suck it up to perform for her fans somehow.

Anyway, it's been a few delicious days of schadenfreude between her and the Shibbots.

[quote]but she loves the spotlight and you'd think she's suck it up to perform for her fans somehow.

Ashley seems the type to only care about herself and only do things that are self-serving.

I am surprised however that she wouldn't show up, work up the tears, and try go garner sympathy that way because #attention.

A real skater shows up.

Given that consistency has become a U.S. bugaboo, maybe if Nationals really counted, the skaters would work at consistency instead of assuming being high profile gets you a pass.

How do we know that they even asked Ashley to skate? Maybe they didn't!

The US Ice Dance situation is crazy. This competition was supposed to answer the questions. Well, I guess it did...and the answer is that any of the US teams can win Olympic Bronze.

The Shibs had their chances this season (here and at the GPF) to put 3rd place on lockdown -- and they faltered both times. Hubbell/Donohue have been gaining in momentum all year and so no real shock for them to win. But, Chock/Bates are still there, too, and keep winning the FD. Here and at the GPF all three teams were within a point of each other. It's obvious now that they all have support within the skating community. No one has been dropped. The skating is going to matter.

The Olympic SD will be very interesting. I think the Shibutanis have been overscored all season long with that Short Dance. If they are no longer the presumptive Bronze, will they still be bumped up so much? If H/D and C/B are within 2 points of the Shibs after the SD...Maia and Alex can kiss that Bronze goodbye. (Unless we have a repeat of Helsinki and both Zach and Evan flame out.)

Here's a question: Is the skating community really going to let Gadbois have all three Ice Dance medals? This week has been a reminder of how political this sport is...and even though they represent different countries, I have a hard time imagining that happening.

Question #2: If you're Chock/Bates, do you go to Four Continents? I would. They had a late start to the season. Go. Win. Show the judges that you can put another pair of performances together. I think it's worth the risk.

r309 I think there were two Gracie Gold trolls. I think one of them honestly believed (for whatever reason) that Gracie was orchestrating a comeback. It was (plausible?) but unlikely at the beginning of the season, and then even before she went to rehab it was clearly not going to happen. I think the other GG troll was just that... intentionally trolling. You can't even do a triple flip as the second jump in combination unless you add some sort of connecting element.

WHICH - SIDE POINT ABOUT CONNECTING ELEMENTS - the rules say a walley is a connecting element not a jump regardless of rotations - if Nathan Chen added a quadruple walley to his program would it really not be considered a jump? How WOULD you score that as a connecting element?

I almost feel bad for the Shibutanis. The USFS has had to market them as the next big thing as the only skaters to come out of the last Olympics positively were Davis/White and pre last year with Nathan Chen finally nailing consistant quads it wasn't clear we'd have the men to medal. But they really never grew. Maia is fine, but Alex just isn't captivating and their programs never play to their strengths.

Alex looks like he's been caught sniffing his sister's panties on more than one occasion, no?

Credit where credit is due--the SS short dance has been dynamite.

The ice dance scoring makes for some interesting choices--the Shibs won the short; Chock & Bates won the free, but Hubbell & Donahue took the whole thing while being second in both.

Conceivably, then, the U.S. has the Shibs skate the short and C/B skate the long in the team and the HD wins the bronze in the individual. It's not impossible that each team could take home a bronze of some sort. That said, I think it unlikely that the U.S. will leave the current U.S. champion off the team.

Which is why yes, Chock and Bates should go to the 4 CC. There's a good chance that they could be iced out of the team competition and the individual.

Weird thing about American ice dance is that there's this cluster of great teams--the top three and then four or five recently out of juniors, but below that--I'm the poster who saw the free dance live--it's pretty empty. There were 13 teams competing and some of the early ones were truly terrible.

Re: Gracie Gold--she's now tweeting about missing competition and wanting to skate again. I honestly thought that ship had sailed, but maybe now that she sees that everyone else is a mess, she might feel up to it.

So which skaters will Team USA put up for the Team competition?

r322 But that's mostly true in all the disciplines EXCEPT for the cluster of greatness at the top. (Women may be the least top heavy, but that has just as much to do with the lack of TOP as it has to do with the decency of the 9th-12th place finishers.

Plus you never know what joys a terrible skater may bring - if only bottom Kevin also competed in ice dance it might have been worth while.

Has somebody competed in two disciplines at nationals since Kyoko Ina did it? Do they still allow it.

I always enjoy Miss Chock and Master Bates.

Ashley Cain has competed in both pairs and singles within the past few years, and I think someone else notable did too. It's not that uncommon on the junior level, but by the time they reach seniors, skaters have usually picked one or the other.

[quote]skaters have usually picked one or the other.

Yeah and they usually pick singles leaving their partners fucked!

Everytime I see Kyoko Ina's name written out I think Ina Garten, but I would imagine it is quite difficult to skate barefoot.

I bet she would have very graceful spirals though.

I miss the days of Kyoko Ina, when the US had an outside chance at a bronze medal...

I liked when Ina skated with Dunjen. I preferred them so much more over Meno & Sand.

I didn't realize Ina was a three time Olympian.

My guesses for the team competition: Nathan (SP) and if the lead for Team USA is large enough at that point, Vincent for the LP. Ladies: Karen for the SP, or perhaps they'll go full Bradie and have her do both. Dance: as R322 mentioned, probably the Shibs for the Short Dance, and H/D for the long. And, if God is good, the Knierim's for the pairs.

r332 I think you are right for Ice Dancing and obviously you are right for pairs (because a little birdie already told me that God is good).

Men's will be interesting. We don't really have a chance at winning so there's no need to risk injury to Nathan for 2 nights, but last Olympics we had Davis/White skate twice despite them really being our only medal chances. I know he just totally bailed on the free at Nationals, but I'd suspect that as long as Team looked reasonably secure, we'd put in Adam and maybe just tell him to take out the quad.

Women is a toss up. I'd really love it if they put Mirai in and she managed to medal.

I had wondered if they would put Nagasu in the Team as a way of making it up to her last time and in an effort to give her 3 chances to be the first US Lady to land a triple axel... but they obviously don't like or care enough about her to do that.

If I'm correct (and I can't find anything to indicate for sure I am), I think we have to use the same skaters in 2 disciplines for the team competition. Obviously, the Knierems will be in both parts. I think it's got to be Nathan in both.

Sadly, I don't think that they will use Mirai for the team event. I wish they would. And yes, R333 is right now that I think about it, they probably will use Adam for the LP (and tell him to take out the Quad) I'm sure they won't want to jeopardize Nathan's chances in any way. It also depends on how close the Team Event is to the singles competition, how they decide to use or not use Nathan.

If Nathan's got to do both events, I really don't see the reason for bumping Russ Miner for Adam. I thought the big excuse was the need for consistency.

If two events have to be skated by the same skater, they're better off using rock-solid Bradie in Ladies--the U.S. has no realistic chance of a medal in Ladies, so it's a good way to use Bradie's reliability. Then have Nathan do the short and Adam the long.

r337 I love your love of RUSS! almost as much as I love the entire thread's championing of bottom Kevin. Who knew that it would take some C-level skaters and a near hostile takeover from some elderly gymnasts to really get the DL Figure Skating threads going again.

I just got back from I Tonya and it was pretty good if not great. Why not shell out for the Jurassic Park Themesong for the Lillehammer scenes? They were so slavishly accurate to her 91 performance. I would have liked them to drive home Tonya's point about Nancy being ungrateful (maybe add in the cry your make up off incident) but I especially liked how everything they did to 'humanize' Tonya worked while AT THE SAME TIME making the point that she was an egomaniac and likely crazy. Margot and Janney both do a great job. Sebastian Stan is surprisingly fun too, but way too good looking for Jeff Stone.

While nothing could possibly top Nancy/Tonya and the incident, what would make the list of top 10 skating controversies and dramas outside of the incident?

In terms of controversy, probably the time Surya took off her medal in disgust at Worlds, the Romeo+Juliet Canadian pair being downgraded in a point swapping scandal, and then MAYBE the Domnina/Shabalin folk dance? Or the Katarina Witt slutty outfits and flirting with female judges scandal/smear campaign? Would Ashley Wagner's olympics make the top ten?

How about Oksana Grishuk? She was a one-woman controversy show. She had an affair with Aleksandr Zhulin, who was one of her ice dance rivals. Oh yeah, he was also married to his partner at the time. She also later changed her name to "Pasha" because of her animosity towards Oksana Baiul.

OH THE GRISHUK DRAMA WAS DELICIOUS, but I don't know if anyone ever heard about it outside the skating world. Not that Surya was BIG NEWS, but it did get reported on at the time. I'd definitely put it in the top 10 for how bananas it got, but maybe it wasn't quite as well-known.

I would also add... the forced outing of Brian Orser (which didn't happen on ice), Rudy Galindo revealing his status, and the death of Sergei Grinkov as things that also made news that made out outside the typical figure skating circle. I don't think there was anything controversial about Grinkov's death, but coming so quickly on the heals of his 94 return to gold and the fact that his daughter was so young made it well-reported news. Maybe it was different in Canada, but I don't know many people who were shocked or scandalized by Orser being palimonied by a man, but a lot of (straight and not into skating) people I knew or was related to were cruel and dismissive about Galindo and his deserving of HIV for being fey.

Pairs scandal in Salt Lake City which necessitated the new scoring system. Oksana Baiul's drunken fall from grace.

This article has Ashley being put on the Olympic team in 2014 as being worthy of scandal #2!

r341 The Salt Lake City Controversy is the Canadian Pairs team mentioned above. While that was one of the most exhaustive news cycles (because it was deservedly a controversy, but just give them joint golds and fix the judging in the off-season and be done with it) it did lead to the moment in the gala where they performed a double pairs routine that was really beautiful.

Ha, for some reason I was thinking of a team that literally did a Romeo+Juliet routine, R342!

Does Evan Lysacek's horrible routine to "Grease" count as a scandal?

Frank Carroll has looked embalmed for about twenty years.

R338 what about the Russian judge scandal with Annissina and Piezerat at the Olympics? That can go on your list.

If anyone has online access to The Washington Post there is at least one story on Wagner. She graduated from HS in Virginia. The story mentions that the BOW criteria was added/firmed up to the selection process last year. It is not a fluff piece. There is video of Wagner speaking to reporters and saying she was furious. It's worth checking out. I am a subscriber and the link(s) expire AND aren't any good unless you subscribe. BUT, try the direct route online. That may allow you to read the entire article and more before they cut you off! The byline is Chelsea Janes Jan. 6. There are 660+ comments. Yesterday, Ashley posted a story on Instagram: an image "no negative vibes here" and a markup arrow wrapped around "move along". Whatever sympathy for her disappointment and any good will I had for her vanished....that is her message!?! Not a thank you to supporters? How much the support has helped her during a difficult time? Clearly, she was never going to temper her fury ..but she invites negativity and then smart asses an Insta story. It was so off putting - in the level of disrespect and contempt. She also posted (not a story) a photo and captioned that she was proud of creating a moment. It wasn't offensive; somewhat provocative. Some humility in the wake of her behavior would have been welcome on her Insta account. I do know she has tweeted? support of the team.

r346 It's really all one big scandal of the ice dancing trading judging points for pairs, but you are right maybe the sheer scope of the whole thing deserves two scandal spots.

Whoever mentioned Oksana B's fall from grace had a great suggestion. That was such a public meltdown complete with (I think?) a Baba Wawa interview. Nicole Bobek (meth) and Debi Thomas (bipolar and several other associated problems) had downward spirals too, but they weren't nearly as in the public eye. There's a thread about the pros and cons of Dick Button, but the one thing I did appreciate is that he always called out Nicole for her cheating the edge on her lutz. Do a lot of women still do that these days or is it called too often for review that people are more disciplined?

Ah, yes. The flutz. I don't hear it mentioned as much but I still see it happen regularly.

Not much new in here, but it's got an interview with a failed skater turned party girl, who refers to Tara Lipinski as a hard-partying wreck back in 2014. There's something to be said for the Asian tiger moms in skating--there's no way they're going to let their kids go without an education. Even the homeschooled ones do the *tough* homeschool.

Wonder if the ice dancers do a little better as a rule--longer careers, less punishing on the body.

Re scanalds

Nagano 2002 Worlds

Galit Chait / Sergei Sakhnovski getting the bronze over Margarita Drobiazko / Povilas Vanagas

Dobriazko/Vanagas were third in Compulsaoy Dances and Original Dance. After Free Dance they were already celebrating in the Kiss and Cry. They had 2 crowns on their heads. And then the scores came up....behind Chait/Sakhnovski....

the whole arena started to boooo

2 judges (France and Germany) allegedly burst in tears when the score was announced

The USA judge received death threats after the competition. She voted for D/V. She got a phone call during the night telling her they would cut her throat off.

The other ice dancers started a petition in favour of the Lithuanians. 20 ice dance couples signed it.

It was reported that after the competition, at the athletes' hotel, Papa Boris (boss of Israeli Federation and father of Galit Chait) run into some coaches (including Zhulin) and skaters...and went mad...he started to yell at them...his wife was trying to hold him....he allegedly told them "who oppose me won't live longer" . Galit Chait said other skaters congratulated her. And other skaters briefed the press that only Ilia Averbukh congratulated them. Papa Boris said that some athletes went to Galit in the locker room and asked her: how much (did) you pay for the medal?

[quote] Question #2: If you're Chock/Bates, do you go to Four Continents? I would. They had a late start to the season. Go. Win. Show the judges that you can put another pair of performances together. I think it's worth the risk.

Four Continents selection for Ice Dance is Hawayek/Baker, McNamara/Carpenter and Parsons truckdriver/Parsons boy

R346, that Instagram message is no surprise. AW was a sore winner in 2014 (when she got selected to the team ), a sore loser (when she felt the judges underscored her in Sochi), and a sore loser in 2018.

North Korea say they are going to Olympics

Does it mean a likely wild card for Ryom/Kim? IOC said they were open to it.

They earned that spot. It's only due politics that their Fed didn't send the confirmation by the deadline and was passed to Japan.

Their Short Program

And she still can't say why she wasn't at the gala? What a child. Of course her fans will do any kind of mental gymnastics to make excuses for her.

“Ashley Wagner is not just a figure skater. She’s an interesting, intelligent, well-rounded young woman who has been the most quotable skater of this, or perhaps any, generation.”

Oh, puh-leez. Christine Brennan really needs to quit pandering to First Alternate Wagner. Brennan is losing any shred credibility she might have had as a journalist. I’m really surprised she’s acting like such a fangurl.

That's freaking hilarious. Johnny Weir (as insufferable as he is now) was a lot more entertaining in his heyday. Adam is pretty quotable. Dick Button, hello! Not to mention all of the oft-quoted skaters from other countries who Brennan would never give the time of day to.

Ashley must be paying her by the word. I wish they would both STFU and go away.

Interview with Kolyada on ISU website

He explains his SP

[quote] "In the short program the character is an angel that descends from the sky down to earth. He experiences some emotional stress and wants to return to the sky, but for some reason stays here (on earth)."

Now let's investigate the reason this poor distressed angel has to remain on earth!

[quote] In dance, I like Tessa (Virtue) and Scott (Moir), in pairs the Chinese pair (Wenjing Sui/Cong Han), our pair Vova (Vladimir Morozov) and Zhenia (Evgenia Tarasova) and also Fedia (Klimov) with Ksiusha (Ksenia Stolbova). I also enjoy how Lesha (Alexei) Rogonov and Kristina Astakhova present their programs. From the girls, I like Carolina Kostner."

I've never followed Russian politics between different skating clubs. He went for Kostner which is always a safe option when you are asked about your favorite skater and no mention of any of Eteri's girls while he mention almost all Russian pairs.

Some nice praise for ice dancers

[quote] Yes, I am trying to maintain that. I can’t stand still and be stiff. You can see immediately if someone is stretching and working on flexibility. If he just goes out, skates and does his jumps, you can see that. Figure skating is such a smooth sport, everything should look like a knife cutting through butter. You need to strive for being like the dancers. They are flying over the ice. Ideally we all should strive to be like they are. I watch the ice dancers, how they are doing all this, so softly how they stretch their legs and arms and it is all beautiful.

On the too many quads debate

[quote] Basically my maximum right now is three quads in the program (laughs). In general, everybody chooses himself, how many quads they do, because if someone feels strong enough, why not jump, if it gives you a lot of points. To skate with triple is obviously a lot easier and the program as a whole looks different. I skated my programs with triples and with quads in practice and I although from my inner state these are not two different programs when I skate with triples, I still feel the difference. I even asked my choreographer and she said that it was different. As for limiting the quads, honestly, I don’t know. Now we have a very difficult situation with the jumps in figure skating, because someone does triples, does them cleanly and gets high scores, and someone tries to do quads and he doesn’t get so much. So I don’t know and I leave this question to be decided by the folks up top.

It's interesting how different the same program could look if you replace quads with triples. However, I thought the problem was the opposite than what he says: he is the prime example of getting lots of points even if he splats 2-3 times in each FS

Anyway, the sauna solves any problem

[quote] You can help working on the datcha and go to the (Russian) sauna. The sauna really distracts you, seriously. For me, when I have a lot of thoughts, I just have to go to the sauna, you heat up and you come out like a new person. What helps me best to tune out completely is the sauna, I don’t know how, but it works for me.

Kolyada seems very boring. Someone recently pointed out how two of his programs are blatant ripoffs of Javier's ("Wait, Hares" which he did back in the Morozov days, and the Elvis one of course). But Javier has about ten times as much charisma.

Grantoline=Caroline Zhang+Grant Hochstein

I swear! they have named their joint Instagram account in this way

How queeny he is in the penultime pic, well, in all of them.

Kyoko Ina! Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Who has the scoop on her? Apparently she pissed off/left her first partner with whom she had pretty good success with (Dundjen) by leaving him a voicemail after she had auditioned skaters behind his back.

She then got a 2 year ban because she refused a surprise urine test, to which she's supposedly given conflicting accounts about. One of those stories being that they arrived at her place at 10 p.m. and she couldn't produce a urine sample because she had already gotten ready for bed. How hard is it to produce a urine example even if you've just peed?

r360 I can speak from experience, it's harder than you think.

I don't know how it worked at the time but at least now they wait until you manage to pee.

From WADA 2010 guidelines

The Witness (DCO or Chaperone) shall escort the Athlete to the toilet facility. The Athlete will carry his/her own Sample collection vessel.

The Witness shall be of the same gender as the Athlete providing the Sample. Where practicable, the DCO should ensure the Athlete thoroughly washes his/her hands before providing a Sample.

Once in the toilet facility the Athlete must remove all clothing between the waist and mid-thigh, in order that the witnessing Sample Collection Personnel has an unobstructed view of Sample provision. Sleeves should be rolled up so that the Athlete’s arms and hands are also clearly visible.

The Witness shall directly observe the Athlete provide the urine Sample, adjusting his/her position so as to have a clear view of the Sample leaving the Athlete’s body.

The DCO shall verify, in full view of the Athlete, that the Suitable Volume of Urine for Analysis has been provided.

Once a urine Sample of at least 90mL has been collected, or the Athlete has provided a partial Sample and is unable to provide any more urine at this time, the Witness shall escort the Athlete, who shall carry his/her own Sample, back to the administration area. The Athlete should be encouraged to provide as much volume as possible and Sample Collection Personnel should note where an Athlete makes attempts to provide only the bare minimum.

If an Athlete wishes to wash his/her hands after passing the Sample, the Sample shall at this time be placed in a safe and secure location, in full view of both the Athlete and the Witness.

If the Witness observes any unusual behavior by the Athlete while witnessing the passing of the Sample, this shall be reported to the DCO as soon as possible, and documented.

The Witness shall sign the relevant documentation to verify that he/she witnessed Sample provision in accordance with procedures.

In the event that an Athlete is unable to provide 90 mL of urine, the DCO shall follow the procedure for a partial Sample.

The DCO shall advise the Athlete that the partial Sample provided shall be secured and a further Sample collected.

The DCO shall instruct the Athlete to select partial Sample Collection Equipment, as per 7.1. It is recommended that there are at least three partial Sample kits from which to choose.

The DCO shall then instruct the Athlete to open the relevant equipment, pour the insufficient Sample into the container, and seal it as directed by the DCO. The DCO shall check, in full view of the Athlete, that the container has been properly sealed.

The DCO and the Athlete shall check that the equipment code number and the volume and identity of the insufficient Sample are recorded accurately by the DCO. The Athlete and DCO may initial or sign the documentation to show they are satisfied with the procedure.

The Athlete should return to the waiting area, and shall remain under observation until ready to provide a further Sample.

Either the Athlete or the DCO shall retain control of the Sample. The DCO shall ensure that the sealed partial Sample is securely stored (under continuous observation or locked away in a secure area). If the Athlete retains possession of the Sample, it must be placed in a secure area, and must remain under the observation of Sample Collection Personnel.

When the Athlete is ready to provide more urine, the Sample provision process shall recommence.

To ensure continuity of the process, and for the comfort of the Athlete, the Witness should be the same Witness as for the initial attempt, whenever possible. However, a change of Witness shall in no way affect the integrity of the process.

and so on

until he/she finally pee

uhm, I can't see my comment at R362. I see it blank.

Anyway, I cut and pasted WADA procedure for the provision of urine sample. I don't know if it was the same at her time, but now they wait until you are able to produce the amount they need. They stay there with you...if you take too much time, you get dressed again, you go in the waiting room and stay the official stay there with you until you are ready.

Yeah, R361, I dunno. Her story seemed shady as hell.

Someone mentioned Oksana/Pasha above... so I thought I'd link to the best damn fluff piece ever.

"People was confusing me with other Oksana who first became very popular... and then became criminal."

who of you is the writer who gave the ice network pewter medal for best costume to bottom Kevin ?

r366 That article is strange. I love Adam's shirt to death, but his pants are the wrong color and the fitting is all wrong for skating pants (and that's a really unflattering photo angle that highlights the weird slope of his forehead).

But the inclusion of bottom Kevin is a surprising delight. I especially like the mistake/freudian slip of adding the space to bodysuit such that the article claims that bottom Kevin has a relatively simple body.

Dyer's costume sucked and he looks like he has a swayback. Why do they have such a low-res picture for him?

I like AShib's costume, but his hair is so awful that I can barely stand to look at it to analyze it. I used to far prefer him to his sisterlove (in so much as one does have a favorite) but now I realize that Maia's attitude is probably from the regret that she couldn't find a better partner.

Not me. I'd never give an award to that dress of Mirai Nagasu's--it's fussy as all get out and I prefer gold with red. Her other one's better.

I like Mirai but I hate both of her costumes. I keep hoping she'll get new ones for the Olympics.

Please somebody delete that awful fashion review! In addition to it being mostly wrong (agree with r368 that Mirai's costume is a mess she looks like she just had a long night of hooking, but trade didn't like her so she was gutted and set on fire), it is bound to anger Vera and her army of spies who will come and further try to ruin this thread.

Her thirsty for lithe effete men knows no bounds and nobody, especially bottom Kevin, is safe from her wrath now that her costumes are not universally adored.

I wonder how much Chen has spent for those awful costumes

I see Grant H. and think to myself "that little bottom is going to make a top a very happy man one day." What a way to throw his life away.

Grant, you're a mo. Stop fighting your urge for cock.

tomorrow Ashley is appearing on the Today Show.....will she announce her retirement? will she refuse to appear to 4 Continents along with all other leftovers? will she proclaim her body of work?

Meanwhile, also during the weekend, the presentation of South Korea Olympic team....Yuna couldn't wait to run away....

r371 I bet 0 dollars. Donna Karan I believe used to design Todd Eldridge's basic-ass costumes for free because she could have an in-road to getting the contract for all the skating team warm-up gear (for which I'm sure USFSA paid generously).

R373 I'm sure she'll be on the Today show bitching about how she was robbed and how she deserves to be on the Olympic Team because of her, "body of work."

And when she says, "body of work," she obviously means the bjs she gives on her back.

I didn't realize that Mirai edged Wagner for a place on the 2010 Olympic Team. She was giving nasty, bitch face back then too.

In a way, this might work out even better for Ashley than being named to the team......she could talk about this and keep it going for the next twenty years!

In addition to Baiul and Bobeck flaming out, Christopher Bowman had a crazy and tragic ride. He died of an overdose well after his skating retirement, but he also blew tons of chances at being a legitimate force of nature in the sport. He had to secretly go to rehab before the Olympics (Albertville maybe? or Calgary) and he had a cameo role in the Corey Feldman movie the Lost Boys.

Toller Cranston's books are fairly terrible (and that man sounds insufferable) but he had some good gossip. Wish Tara L and Johnny W would co-write a book covering their careers through commentating. I have a feeling Tara would not hold back. When I was skating, Johnny had the reputation of being personally crazy, but an absolutely lovely competitor. Was friendly with everyone, even the guys from shitty skating clubs, and was quick to congratulate or compliment somebody. So maybe he would be less likely to name names. But I'd love to hear about his experience getting fired by Smuckers for not being 'family friendly' enough. I bet he'd have stories about Evan L too.

R378 didn't Johnny out Evan?

Johnny already wrote a book a few years back.

r380 So did Tara (that she wrote approx. 0 words of). But both were the typical non-story auto-biographies. Here is a time I worked hard. Here is a time a faced hardship.

I want to know what Tara has to say about her former coach. I want to know what Johnny has to say about Daisuke Takahashi being outed checking into a hotel with his boyfriend in Japan. I want to know about Nicole Bobek in the Olympic village when Tara was only 15.

I don't want to know that Tara practiced triple loop triple loop combinations every day because she just knew they were special to her or whatever.

Jenny Kirk also outed Evan when she was on TSL. Practically she admitted the USFSA asked her to beard for the gay boy.

I'm shocked that Evan is gay!!! I thought his activities in the steam room were a one off.... well, once a day.

What did Todd Eldridge know and when???

Damn, I can't remember what board I read about it on, but apparently Tabitha Belbin was extremely free and easy as a teenaged competitor. Someone wrote about how she had been caught at a competition in a car with an older make skater getting fingerbanged. She was 16 at the time. I think USFS threatened to sue to have the board shut down or to get the thread removed. It might have been a gymnastics board that had a section on skating? Anyone else hear this?

Older MALE skater! She got fingerbanged by an older male skater!

Mehh nothing beats Fedor Andreev getting caught receiving a blowjob by a male ice dancer rival that would later advocate for Tanith to be kept off the Olympic team. Now that was Drama.

What was his name? Omara or something like that...

r387.... Does Meryl know about this?

R385 do you mean Tanith Belin? And why would USFS care since she was Canadian?

*Belbin

Oh, nevermind Belbin skated for the US.

r391 Tanith skated for Canada until she was paired with Agosto.

That guy that wrote Hamilton always reminded me of Agosto. Both for seeming continually pleased with themselves and for being pretty overrated. I've heard good things about Agosto as a person though since he's retired. He's done choreo and coaching/directing for some Disney and Disney-esque ice shows. Apparently he's quite easy to get along with and a hard worker.

For god sake it was a huge deal back in 2006. Of course the US passed a temporary law that would allow Miss Belbin to attend the Torino Olympics. I forgot what the name of the bill was.

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's strange that so many Asian female skaters skate to Miss Saigon? I mean, they realize they're portraying a prostitute, right?

Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that so many white figure skaters skate to Firebird and Swan lake? I mean, they realize they're portraying birds right? It's weird because birds don't skate they fly. Many of them don't even like ice and fly south for the winter.

r387 Can we return to Fedor's oral skills for a moment... When did this supposedly happen and why has he decided to forego dick in favor of a woman who looks like an anime cartoon character? (who is, I'm sure, a lovely person).

I think it's strange and hilarious R394. It's as though they have no idea what the story is about and honestly it's not even a good story to tell.

Tanith Belbin was/is gorgeous--glad she had fun. Ben not so much--and, yeah, he looks like Lin-Manuel Miranda and that's not a good thing. That said, I like both of them as commentators. Both of them know how to shut up and Ben's comments are quite insightful and low-key.

Tara's gotten so annoying that I go out of my way to listen to non-American commentators. I like the B.ESP guys.

Does anybody else remember the old Usenet skating forum RSSIF?

AND VERY VERY GAY, R392.

R394. The Firebird, Swan Lake, and also The Nutcracker were all specially commissioned for ballets. The music and themes translate wonderfully to skating programs. And, there was artistic collaboration between the composer and artistic director, designer and choreographer. The composer didn't dictate all the musical decisions. The music had to be danceable and certain sections needed to be a certain number of beats in order to accomplish particular needs of the choreographer. It works well for skaters. Yes, their musical choices are often edited to accommodate their programs. [Fokine worked with Stravinsky (later Balanchine made his own Firebird (s) and collaborated with Stravinsky). Petipa worked with Tschaikovsky. (Of course, there are many Nutcrackers, now.) ]

r401 I think you meant r395 and I also think r395 was joking.

[R402] you *think* [R395] was joking? You WROTE [R395].

You're dumber than Shane Stant and Roza Galieva combined!!!

r403 eyeroll

R403 lol

I wish someone would ask Ashley Wagner about her scores and say, "so what?"

Ashley you think you were underscored, okay, should they have placed you in third and then given your Olympic Spot to Chen since her body of work was better than yours this season?

r403 Oh Tati G. you dim-witted life-sized Margaret Keane painting! How HAVE you been? Still upset that you had to give half your Olympic prize money to me? Hope you are having fun in Michigan. I hear Detroit is lovely this time of year. Maybe you could start a friendship with Ashley, start a fun little blog called "Not Qualified" where you get to do things you are not qualified to do... like, I don't know... I'm sure some opportunity will come your way again. It always does.

(ps it's best when you reply in the right thread!)

(pps love you, bitch)

Try harder, please!

R406 you do realize that Ashley placed higher than Karen in the GP event that they appeared together right? In fact she got a much higher PCS score than Karen in both the short and the long (33.47 vs 30.43 and 67.50 vs 61.99), and she only won the bronze over Ashley because the judges somehow thought this forgettable, homely girl (PS. buy her book, I'm sure she must have endured a lot of hardship!) is worth propping up as the next "generation" of American skater: her PCS scores are higher than Ashley for both the short and the long (33.80 vs 32.94 and 69.58 vs 68.00). Comparing international and US scores clearly showed a big bump for Karen at Nationals.

I know this probably gets asked all the time, but given that they share the same name and all..

Is Karen Chen related to Karen Kadavy?

To clarify, the event they appeared together both in the short and the long was Skate Canada. They also appeared together in Skate America, and Ashley beat Karen in PCS score in the short similar to Skate Canada (33.68 vs 30.93), and in the long when Ashley withdrew, Karen got a 61.38 in PCS, similar to her score in Skate Canada but way lower than nationals.

And if one wants to only compare the TES, Ashley actually got a higher TES score in nationals when combining the short and long compared to Karen (Ashley's 33 and 62.26 add up to 95.25, higher than Karen's 35.68 and 59.53, which add up to 95.15). It's clear that the US judges propped Karen up by the PCS.

[quote] And when she says, "body of work," she obviously means the bjs she gives on her back.

they enjoyed more Adam's "body of work"

That’s Caryn with a “C” and a “y,” bitch at R410!

Mariah Bell should've been 3rd over both Karen and Ashley.

evan_bates: Rivals and friends for as long as I can remember. Congratulations @splashmadison and @zachtdonohue on your national title. Can't wait to share this Olympic experience together.

splashmadison: Thank you @evan_bates ! You and @chockolate02 have made our journey to the Olympics so much fun! See you in Pyeongchang ❤️

zachtdonohue: Wow bro! Thank you so much!! Im so proud to be on the same team as you and @chockolate02. Two of the most genuine and incredible people ive had the privilege of knowing. See you in Pyeongchang ❤️

which brings me to another point: they all can't stand the Shibutanis?

I noticed a significant lack of shibutanis content as well. Like none of the skaters present at the nationals posted about the Shibs whereas they posted about the three other teams on the podium. I think that's very telling.

Also did any of you manage to watch whiny diva wagner on today's show? spill the tea!

Clip of Her Highness on Today. She was heartbroken because "her Olympic dream had come to an end." Bitch, did you forget that you were already there in 2014? A lot of skaters never even get to go once. Why don't they ask Ross Miner how he feels?

R360

Yes, that story about Kyoko Ina is absolutely true. They showed up at her door on a Sunday night after ten. She called her coach who told her she could refuse to give a sample at that time and it would be ok. It turned out that wasn't the case. She quietly retired soon after.

She never made it clear as to why she didn't want to provide that sample.

[quote]you do realize that Ashley placed higher than Karen in the GP event that they appeared together right?

And? That has nothing to do with what was posted. Which one placed higher at Worlds?

[quote]Clip of Her Highness on Today. She was heartbroken because "her Olympic dream had come to an end." Bitch, did you forget that you were already there in 2014? A lot of skaters never even get to go once.

But she's not heartbroken that she spent more time running her mouth than on the ice practicing.

R420, the media is heartbroken that they won’t be able to make more stories out of First Alternate Wagner’s foot-in-mouth comments.

I'm sure Wagner is pissed she can't use some Kristie Phillips (courtesy of her mother) tactics!

Hubbell/Donohue, Chock/Bates and Papadakis/Cizeron all seem to get along really well. They're all over each others Instagrams and such.

Some Shibs vs. other US teams backstage drama would be delicious. Maia and Alex seem nice and always act professionally...but commentators have let it be known that "she wears the pants in that partnership." She must be throwing some bitchiness around somewhere.

Let it out, girl. Bring it to the ice. You'd have a lot more fans.

Wagner is trying desperately to do damage control in that clip above and she's horrible at it. In typical Ashley fashion she blames her comments on something other than her inability to have more tact. She was "thrown" in front of the cameras after her scores... bitch, you've been in the sport for how many years and you haven't mastered the ability to keep yourself in check?

According to someone on FSU, the selection committee was apparently composed by

Robert G. Rosenbluth

Laurie S. Johnson

Samuel Auxier

Tammie K. Campbell

Kathaleen K. Cutone

Wendy L. Enzmann

Peggy Graham

Kevin M. Rosenstein

Pilar M. Bosley

Rachael E. Flatt

Douglas P. Razzano

Benjamin Reisman Miller

Some say they were 13 as the previous chair of the International Committee is an ex-officio member of the committee and one member abstained.

We can be sure that Razzano wasn't the dissenting vote.

Think if the committee had split 7-6 for Rippon with Razzano's vote being decisive. Some skating boards would have literally exploded.

I was surprised, r425, that Rachel Flatt is on the committee. It seems like not that long ago that she, herself, was skating competitively.

R427 she's there as athletes representatives along with Razzano and that Pilar woman I've never heard of

Committee member Razzano on Rippon: "While it may be 11/10 here in North America, it is 11/11 in Osaka... We’ve been friends since we were obnoxious teenagers running around at Nationals and I have watched you grow from the lowest lows of your life into the beautiful human being you are today. I feel so lucky to have you as a friend, a best friend. Good luck in the free today and happy 28th birthday, @adaripp! Love you so much ❤️👑"

TSL just uploaded a video about Nationals. I don't normally watch TSL but wanted to see what they had to say about Ashley...

They basically said that the audience wasn't sold on her at the arena and the judges are tired of all of her hot air. They also said that people are tired of her running this game and are no longer playing it with her.

Some of the comments on TSL would make me believe Dave reads and participates on DL.

He also mentioned how La La Land was basically Moulin Rouge recycled.

Apparently Ashley is also blaming her sponsorship obligations as part of the reason she didn't skate well. She's been "overwhelmed" by them.

Isn't that her responsibility?

[quote]Douglas P. Razzano

Oh boy...doesn't Ross Miner worship Douglas Razzano? Time for Ross to go on a twitter spree.

Interesting TSL says that the word they've gotten is that Brady will be skating in the SP during the team event and Mirai will be skating the free. The Shibs want to skate both but USFSA wants Nathan to skate both. They're not using the switch in Pairs.

they don't switch Pairs because they can't switch them given they have only 1 Pair spot at Olympics.

If Shibutani really want to skate both, they are very selfish. They would basically deny a medal to one of their ice dance team-mates. But again, they probably don't care at all about C/B and H/D.

USFSA using Chen twice makes sense. But I am not sure Chen's team would like it.

They can switch only 2 disciplines.

According to TSL the Shibs want to skate both however they aren't sure that the USFSA can justify not putting in the National Champs. TSL wasn't sure if Nathan's going to want to skate both and therefore they basically say the solution is to but Bradie in both and throw out Mirai so that Chen and Adam can switch out.

TSL is also guessing that the 11-1 vote on Adam doesn't mean that the 1 vote was in favor of Miner. They're thinking it was a vote in favor of Jason.

Yeah there's a rumour circulating that the Shibutanis are lobbying to skate both SP and FS in the team event. Selfish cunts, no wonder none of the other skaters like them.

Somebody on ONTD confirmed that Maia is a total bitch with delusions of being the next Meryl Davis.

The Shibs have so many hardcore stans on all the skating forums...I wonder how they're justifying the selfishness of their wholesome, bland favorites? Nationals must have them shook, and they know they can't take the individual bronze for granted anymore, so they're going to do everything to ensure a team medal.

Some simulations on Team Event

Chen...top 2..so either 9 or 10 points

Tennell...surely behind Russia. Osmond likely second, she is usually strong in the SP. Tennell has a great skate and takes third. 8 points. But she can easily be down to 6 points as Myahara and Kostner can beat her. French girl, Schott, Li, Dabin Choi and the poor girl skating for Israel are behind USA if she doesn't bomb

Pairs...Russia (even if they field Stolbova/Klimov), Duhamel/Radford, Sui/Han, James/Cipres are certainly above USA. I don't except Aliona to skate Team Even for Germany. Annika Hocke/Ruben Blommaert are beatable by K/K. If everything goes well, Kniermis takes 6 points. But they can go behind the Italians and get only 5 points. Paige Conners & Evgeni Krasnopolsks, Miu Suzaki/Ryuichi Kihara and Kim/Kam are worse than K/K.

Ice Dance...third place. 8 points

So I would say USA between 28 and 32 points.

Russia...10 points in Ladies. Kolyada could finish third or 4th. Pairs between 10 and 8 points. Ice Dance 4th or 5th (if they lose Cappellini/Lanotte). Between 32 and 36 points

Canada...I see Chan 5th. Osmond second but she can fall to 4th if she bombs. Duhamel/Radford second or more likely third. Dance 10 or 9 points. Range 30-34 points

So the strategy will depend on the outcome of SPs. If USA are at higher end of their range and Canada and Russia at low end, fielding Chen in the FS makes more sense as Gold is achievable. If USA is at 28 and the other two nations at 32, they can take him out without much regret.

What will happen behind?

Japan: 21-26 points (top 2 for Men, Women between 2 and 4th, Pairs 9th, Muramoto/Reed 6th or 7th)

China: Boyang third or 4th; Sui/Han 9-10 points, Dance between 6th and 8th, Li 8th or 9th----21-26 points

France: Lady 6th but she doesn't skate well, she can be beaten by Nicole Schott and Dabin Choi; James/Cipres third but more likely 4th, Bessighier somewhere between 7th and 10th (Besseghier, Rizzo, Cha and Fentz can end up in whatever order), Papadakis/Cizeron in top 2. Between 20 and 27 points

Italy: Kostner between second and 5th; Rizzo beween 7th and 10th, Pair 5th or 6th, Cappellini/Lanotte 4th or 5th. Between 17 and 25 points

Only 2 of the JPN-CHI-ITA-FRA will make the FS cut. Those who will be switched can also depend on who makes the FS in 4th and 5th place. It' s one thing if you have Uno/Hanyuo or Rizzo/Besseghier; if you face James/Cypres or Suzaki/Kihara

Yesterday and today

Maia Shibutani‏@MaiaShibutani In reply to @Adaripp ❤️

Adam Rippon @Adaripp reply to @MaiaShibutani 😭❤️😘

do they send each other random emoticons? Or do they have some sense?

Anyway, the most epic scenario would be if they convince USFSA to let them skate both segments. Then Russia in the quest for Team Gold manage to rig the whole panel to get Bobrova/Soloviev outscoring them. They would explode!

I can't believe that they would fuck over one of the other Ice Dance teams for the Shibutanis -- who just fucking lost Nationals. We have three of the Top 5 Ice Dance teams. Let two of them compete and likely medal.

I wonder what the Canadians are going to do. They would surely love Virtue/Moir to skate both...or will they throw Weaver/Poje a bone at the end of their careers?

Wow, if the Shibs are pressuring the USFSA that way, little wonder they don't have friends within their discipline. Of course, their blow-up in the FS doesn't strengthen their case. If it's going to be one team, why not Hubbell/Donohue? Doesn't really matter which team, frankly--they'll all lose to V/M and P/C and beat everyone else since Capellini/La Notte and the Russians aren't doing that well.

But, yeah, it is delusions of being the next Davis/White, isn't it? Not going to happen--Hubbell/Donohue finally broke through and they have the looks and sexual chemistry that works big time. They actually managed what Virtue/Moir is always trying to do--though V/M have serious skills.

I saw the Ladies FS live--and the crowd support was big for Starr Andrews and Mirai Nagasu. Nice for Ashley, but nowhere what it was for those other two. Bradie and Karen's was decent, but Mirai fans were there in bulk and were obsessed.

Did the Shibutani's always have a bad reputation? Were they always this way? Just curious?

I think insiders have always known that Maia at least isn't as squeaky clean and wholesome as their whole "ShibSibs" brand. But they've got a lot of loyal fans who've latched on to their social media presence, and the fact that for a long time they were underdogs. People blame their blandness on the fact that they're siblings, and thus the judges are prejudiced against them or something.

Honestly with the rise in incest kink in mainstream, if the Shibs really wanted to get some national attention they should embrace it in their routines. Being nice and wholesome may get them a few sponsorships (so far they've snagged Intel and Minute Maid) but I predict the general public won't give a fuck about them after the Olympics. They probably won't give much of a fuck during the Olympics either, despite NBCs best efforts.

Problem is that it's 2 blow up in FD in a row. In FD at GP Final they were behind not only C/B and H/D but also Cappellini/Lanotte.

That's probably why they're lobbying to skate both. They don't want to go into the individual event with the 2 bad FDs fresh in the eyes of the judges.

r442 They've had a bad reputation in Ann Arbor for a while, but sometimes it's hard to discern how much of that is earned vs how much is thrust upon them. It's clear that they do consider themselves above others, but some of that may be them trying to focus (I'm not a ShibStan, just trying to give them some benefit of the doubt) and therefore they've been ignoring any attempts to really engrain themselves in the skating community. Also - Evan Bates is sort of a hometown hero here, so its definitely possible that the Shibs are seen as glory-hogging interlopers.

That being said - there's a group of people I could understand being icy toward them (competitors who want attention, rival coaches who want sponsored pupils, local fan girls andskaters at Michigan/Detroit that haven't been able to become bff's with the Olympic medal hopefuls), and yet people outside this circle also don't seem to hold them in high regard. This weekend, I was talking to a test judge with gold and international qualifications who is one of the most diplomatic people I have ever met, and she tries to never make comments about skaters other than about the merit of their skating no matter what, and yet she had nothing nice to say about the Shibutanis.

It makes me wonder how much longer the center can hold on this manufactured narrative of the ShibSibs. As much as I don't think Ashley didn't deserve higher than 4th at Nationals, I do think some of the people who aren't Ashley have raised good points about the lack of inflation in her marks - but I can't help but think that lack of inflation is absolutely a reap-what-you-sow situation. The Shibs have stopped delivering technical consistency and they don't have any x factor to make up for it. If on top of that they're miserable competitors with bad reputations, I only see their scores sinking further in the future.

I don't typically like or listen to that Dave Lease guy but he made a good point about Ashley Wagner's scores. He said in reality Ashley's scores were right where they should have been. The problem isn't that they didn't give her the scores she deserved, in fact they had. The problem is that in they just weren't padding her scores like they used to.

[quote]their asses are so lovely mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Let's see some screencaps!

A few questions...

1. Is Ross Miner's bad treatment possibly due to his age? Since US FS seems to be in dire need of increased public interest to continue on....and the Olympics are a once in 4 years chance to drum up excitement.... maybe the leaders decided that someone past a certain age isn't worth promoting because there isn't enough payback time-wise? Just wondering...

R446 I recently did a deep dive into the 2014 Sochi Olympics Ladies figure skating judging/scoring scandal.

There didn't seem to be any evidence that Ashley Wagner was deliberately underscored, unlike others.

But there was evidence that Gracie Gold got some crazy inflated values, along with the Russians.

I wonder if that's what she meant regarding those specific comments?

[quote]I wonder if that's what she meant regarding those specific comments?

What are you talking about? Ashley's comments? Ashley wasn't commenting on scores fro 2014. She was bitching that she wasn't getting the component scores she deserved at Nationals... which was bullshit.

450 OK then never mind. I thought she was griping about her Oly scores.

Don't worry, Ashley I got this.

Has Wagner always been insufferable?

r453 Yes and no. When she first came on the scene a lot of people found her refreshing. She was an unrepentant army brat in a sea of ice princesses. Rachel Flatt was sort of the Queen Bee, and she was widely disliked by competitors and audiences (and eventually USFS sued her for lying). Ashley was always a brat. But when she started she was young and people were cognizant that she had plenty of room to mature. A lot of people were hoping she'd keep the honesty but grow more adult.

Even the commentators would say things like "It's great to hear a young woman talk like this is a sport. She doesn't simply respond with platitudes and say 'I hope I do my best' she says, I'm going to fight and I'm going to win. Unfortunately she didn't mature. She grew entitled and never seemed to learn anything or grow as a skater.

Unfortunately, this means that people who supported her in the beginning either have grown totally delusional and think she can do no wrong while the people who disliked her from the beginning have become increasingly insufferable with pointless I-told-you-so'ing.

USFS sued Rachel Flatt for lying? For lying about what? And then they allowed her to be the athlete rep?

Gender

R454, that’s interesting. Rachael Flatt was widely disliked and even sued by USFSA....

And yet, there she is, on the Olympic selection committee list shared by R425. How does that happen??

r457 I don't know how the selection committee works. I just looked it up. She wasn't sued, she was fined for lying about a leg injury.

I have no idea what happened after she stopped competing. Maybe she rehabbed her reputation, maybe she got on because she was very Jesus-y and the people who appoint athlete reps and vote also love Jesus. I have heard she's done some good athlete advocating work, like trying to get concussion treatment standardized at competitions. But, no, she was not well liked while she was skating, although for a while she was marketable.

Looks like Rachael was reprimanded and fined (not sued) in 2011 for not disclosing her stress fracture before Worlds, thereby denying Mirai the chance to go. Rachael’s 12th place finish meant the US only got two, not three, spots to worlds the following year.

r459 Yes that's correct. I had remembered it wrong. I apologize.

Rachael Flatt was painful to watch. Dave Lease’s old blog, Aunt Joyce’s Ice Cream Stand, was at its most entertaining when ripping the Flatt one a new one (which was often).

Rachael Flatt also seems like a lifetime ago, and then you remember that she won Junior World's when Mirai also medalled.

Why was Rachel so disliked?

From Aunt Joyce’s Ice Cream Stand (2011 Nationals coverage):

“Rachael Flatt is the reigning champion. She may be the least popular gold medalist in ladies skating since Trixie Schuba. Simply put, her skating fails to inspire. People like Scott Hamilton have repeatedly told Rachael that she has a charming personality. It has created a monster where this apparently cocky-over-nothing skater performs a bile-rising Betty-Boop-like persona during her long program. Her new short program to East of Eden will also be a migraine-in-the-making for anyone with class, taste or a memory. Kwan owned that music with her flow, charisma and speed: three things Flatt is sorely lacking. Rachael "The Rock" lauds herself for being consistent, but she is also known to get at least 1-2 downgrades per long program. We can only hope she attempts a Triple Lutz+Triple Loop like she's droned on and on about, as almost no one ever is credited for that combination under the IJS.”

[quote]Kwan owned that music with her flow, charisma and speed:

Is that a work of fiction? When did Kwan ever have speed?

Well, R465, compared to Ms. Flatt....

Do you think if Alex Shibutani came out of the closet he'd be a nicer person?

r463 She also used to publicly whine a lot, but instead of like Ashley where she would directly say what she meant, she would do it passive aggressively and with this put-upon girl smile. If I remember correctly, she once claimed that she was getting hate mail and death threats when she skated poorly.

Honestly, she was so dull I can't remember much about her other than Scott Hamilton just happened to come out loving her right when he was getting all these church speaking gigs and Flatt was in big with all the Colorado Springs crazies.

I think she went to a good school? Harvard? Stanford? Maybe she grew a lot as a person and that's how she became an athlete rep.

I don't follow skating that intently so forgive me for asking but...

People get, "House of Yes," vibes from Maia, right?

Kwan had (some) speed and some daring when she was young and was still doing triple triple combos. She got more and more technically conservative as it was clear she'd be point inflated no matter what. I can't remember when she did East of Eden as a routine though?

I'll give Kerrigan one thing over Kwan: she had memorable programs. They weren't necessarily in the best of taste, but they were accessible and memorable.

I agree, r470, that Kwan had significantly more speed early in her career. Toward the end, though, she looked like one of the slower women and I was amazed that she could still pull off some of her triples.

Kwan did East of Eden as a Pro Am and Exhibition program in the late 90s and then used it for her SP in the early 00's.

Michal Brezina's wife set up a Gofundme to pay for her to go watch him skate in Pyeongchang next month. They just had a big expensive wedding and it's not like it's some big surprise that he was going to this Olympics since he has no competition in the Czech Republic.

Seems very tacky to me, especially after seeing Josh Farris's page. I detest cyberbegging in general, but in his case I can completely understand why he needs help due to the dismal state of US healthcare and circumstances beyond his control. If you must set up a page like this, it better be for a damn good cause. And what makes it even more cringeworthy is her extremely poor grammar and spelling! She's a native English speaker from the USA!

r467 I'm not convinced Alex is gay, and I'm not convinced that even if he came out people would stop believing that he's banging his sister, and as he is maybe the least attractive Asian or Asian-American male skaters (give or take a Shuma Uno) I don't think there'd be much demand for Shibutani dick on the skating circuit even if somebody did believe he wasn't banging his sister... so no I don't think it would really change much for him.

r472 I vaguely remember that routine. I think Kwan was unchallenging and a lazy competitor whose routines became derivative and easy, but she did skate beautifully. She has good speed in the footwork. It's not as difficult as some of the footwork sequences today, but it is more enjoyable. She's one of the few people who would react to the music facially but it seemed totally genuine not peppy plastered on smiles or Maia Shibutani style community theater acting. The spiral that changes edges exactly half way through is also stunning. It's beautiful without being over extended and showy like Sacha Baron Cohen.

Alex looks happy here. He's gay.

The Shibs have been trying to get tight with the Dancing With the Stars pros for some time now. Derek Hough likes to win, so he consulted for Meryl and Charlie's Sochi programs, but the Shibs had to settle for Corky Ballas instead. Too bad Derek's no longer with Dancing with the Stars. Sucking his dick won't get them far.

r476 How many people were paid to consult for the Davis/White Sochi program? Or did Zoueva just call in a lot of favors. I know they had Cirque du Soleil training, the people at 7 fingers of the hand that did the choreo for the Pippin revival were consulted, Derek Hough, Alex Wong and some of the So You think you Can Dance folks... At some point if you spend enough money I hope you get a gold.

Why doesn't USFS shell out to get the ShibSibs a new bag of tricks?

Did Virtue/Moir get the same treatment during that quad? The previous quad? or does Zoueva play favorites?

[quote] Maia making Alex suck his dick won't get them far

Fixed it for you R476

Maia is not going to lose an opportunity because her bottom of a brother is to much of a scary cat to take Derek's cock.

Come on, R474. I'm no big fan, but Alex Shibutani is an attractive guy. He's no Guillaume, but he's far from hideous. He'll make someone a nice husband after he quits skating and becomes a doctor.

And no one with any sense thinks they're fucking. We should be so lucky. Surely then they'd be doing more exciting programs than Coldplay or Perez Prado. If anything, Maia is pimping Alex out to Massimo Scali to make sure they're the Number 1 priority and keeping everyone under her control.

I like imagining this new power-hungry Maia Shibutani. Ice Dance has been missing a villain since Texas trash Kaitlyn Weaver became irrelevant with Virtue/Moir's return. I mean, it's fun hating on Carol Lane and Piper Gilles...but they're such non-entities it's hardly worth the effort.

r479 To each his own. I'd take Daisuke, Keiji, Mervin Tran, Nathan Chen, Patrick Chan, and bottom Kevin all before I'd even consider Alex. Hell, I'd probably go with Kim Ju Sik and Hanyu first too.

Shug Avery would never call Alex ugly as sin, he looks like a perfectly respectable McKinsey consultant, but a 10 he ain't.

[Quote] bottom Kevin all before

don't you mean bottom kevin bottom?

Is Kevin Bottom any good?

At skating or bottoming r482? At skating? No not really. He finished dead last at nationals.

But he looked like he had a lovely time and was doing it for fun.

Alex hides his gay pretty well but if you take a look at him interacting with Javi... They fucked. Javi is a rice queen.

[Quote] Is Kevin Bottom any good?

Fabulous!

So I've been checking out the skater Dave named dropped on the latest TSL. That Puja girl has potential .

Our Junior men are also quite talented. The future US team will be Russian-American it seems.

Oh right Kevin Bottom is the MIT guy who probably didn't train much and showed up looking like shit.

Keiji Tanaka is fine as fuck. Someone give him better programs.

[Quote] you take a look at him interacting with Javi... They fucked. Javi is a rice queen.

Javi does love the Asian male skaters.

What male skaters do we really believe to be straight? I'll say Hanyu, besides his cutesy anime shit he pulls I do think he's straight.

yuuuuuuuum

...........

.........

.............

r490 A better question is what Asian skaters are tops. I'd go with Keiji and Daisuke. The Korean men's skater is clearly a bottom.

Kim Ju Sik looks straight as fuck (that's not a compliment). Maybe he'd go gay if it would help him defect, but even then I think he'd have trouble lying back and thinking of England...

Speaking of, WHET England's figure skating program? They used to have so many beautiful innovative skaters and now they have seemingly nobody. John Curry, Robin Cousins, Torvill and Dean are all skating icons, but I can't think of anyone recently? Am I forgetting someone?

Hanyu? Straight? Javi fucked him too.

I think Nathan Chen is straight. Zach Donohue, Evan Bates. Vincent Zhou maybe--he looks like a bit of a slob.

I don't care how weird and androgynous the Japanese can get, I can't imagine Hanyu's straight.

Loving all the Shib-bot tea. We all knew those posers were fake as fuck with their generic social media personas and hallow skating.

[quote]It's clear that they do consider themselves above others...and therefore they've been ignoring any attempts to really engrain themselves in the skating community.

Well they seem to get along with a lot of other skaters outside of dance, but within? Yeah, you can tell there is no love lost. Just watch any of their press conferences. While everyone else is laid back and occasionally engaging with each other, even sometimes complimenting each other, the Shibs sit stone faced and pay no acknowledgement whatsoever to their rivals, and always re-direct every statement back to themselves.

So, it's not surprising to me they are not well liked within the dance community--which is kinda fucked up, because they always gush about Charlie and Meryl and how much they mentored and took the Shibs under their wing when they were training together.

Anyway, so glad H/D finally beat them.

Having said that, I not sure why people think Alex is gay. I get such a bro vibe from him. Does anyone have real inside scoop on this?

Does anyone have anything on either ShibSib having any significant other besides each other?

Davis and White both seem like genuinely well-mannered competitors. I have my doubts about Virture and Moir, especially Moir.

r498 Oh they get along with skaters outside of dance who are famous and worth their time and who can eventually do something for them in terms of networking. They do not get along with anybody that is "a distraction". They act like the Jennifer Lawrences of Ice Dance. They are on their time and you need to respect that.

[Quote] I get such a bro vibe from him.

Ummmmmm, because he knows how to be FAKE. You said it yourself, hon. Gays are the best at hiding { at least the non fem ones.}

First, R501 you are an idiot for not calling out that poster on their BS.

[quote]I get such a bro vibe from him.

What is that even supposed to mean? Gays can be Bro-like or "normal" acting?

[quote]What is that even supposed to mean? Gays can be Bro-like or "normal" acting?

Bitch, cut the crap. You know what I mean.

We all fucking know when a guy pings to us. Call it gaydar or whatever, but every gay person knows the fine art of picking up on typically feminine cues and/or qualities in a seemingly straight guy to help us gauge if said individual is truly straight or not. Is it an exact science? Of course not, but we all fucking do it anyway--on this board especially.

My point is Alex does not ping to me, but he obviously does to others. To me, he has always seemed like a typical masculine guy who is into typically masculine things (like sports)--which typically reads as "straight guy"--not unlike the other straight dudes in skating like Evan Bates, Zach Donohue, etc.

But people seem to think he's gay. Why? That's all I'm asking. Obviously they're picking up on something that I'm not that lends itself to the possibility he might be gay.

So what is it about him that makes people think he is, but not Zach or Evan, or Ross, who seem equally as masculine or bro-like?

Now fuck off with your PC "Gays can be Bro-like too" shit. I fucking know that. But people are singling Alex out for a reason, so let's not pretend that we don't use these cues to read people's sexuality, whether accurate or not.

r503 You leave Russ out of this!

lol @ self-delusional queen R503 that thinks Alex is straight.

[quote] To me, he has always seemed like a typical masculine guy who is into typically masculine things

because according to you gay men cannot be masculine. Cunt, your homophobia ain't got nothing to do with gaydar. A masculine guy can ping.

I'm soooo ready for the fundie siblings to skate to Game of Thrones.

[quote] f anything, Maia is pimping Alex out to Massimo Scali to make sure they're the Number 1 priority and keeping everyone under her control.

they don't have to plot anything to stay as the number 1 priority in Canton. Who is supposed to be the number 2 team there? Muramato/Reed?

[quote] Michal Brezina's wife set up a Gofundme to pay for her to go watch him skate in Pyeongchang next month. Seems very tacky to me,

yup, I saw it yesterday and it was quite cringeworthy. Stay at home if you don't have the money, it's not that your presence in Korea is desperately needed.

[quote] They just had a big expensive wedding

IIRC they wed the same week as Isabella Tobias. So their wedding looked cheap in comparison.

The Shibs got the invitation to Isabella's wedding. But again it doesn't count, she invited literally everyone from Michigan rinks. Only Evan Bates wasn't there, he was either ill or he once killed her dog.

[quote] The Korean men's skater is clearly a bottom.

The Korean male skater is about to transition into the Ladies event

Hubbell/Donohue have one of the best free dances in the world right now. I'd put them in for that portion. I don't know why Chock/Bates won the free at US Nationals. I was bored to tears with their program. The Shibs short dance has scored very well internationally, so it would make sense to use them for that portion. Mirai in the free? She's never done that well on the world stage. I doubt she will finally do it in Pyeongchang, although she may pull a Paul Wylie and get her shit together when it counts most. That would actually be nice to see. I'd put Adam in for the short and Nathan for the long just to save them from having to skate twice in the team competition.

I think the team competition is the stupidest thing ever. It was just a way for Russia to get jumpbot Plushenko another gold to say he had two Olympic golds as they STRONGLY feel Evgeni was "robbed" by Evan in 2010, which is total bullshit for anyone with eyes and an appreciation for the total package in skating. Alexei Mishin's posturing and begging for sympathy for Plushenko after he pulled out of the singles in the last Olympics was vomit-worthy. The corrupt, behind-the-scenes dealing Russians are a disgusting lot.

R486 interesting arms in the jumps but otherwise a snooze and heavy skating.

Go watch the short program of the girl who won above her, Alyssa Liu (who is only 12!) And you'll notice immediately the difference between world champion material and 'maybe she'll place in the top 10' material.

Also Shoma Uno gives me strong straight vibes. His mentor daisuke takahashi must be so disappointed. Hanyu to me seems like someone who hasn't gotten a grasp of sex yet. He is just so into his own head that creating the bonds with other people that are necessary to having sex is just not possible for him. IRL I know very talented people who have that 'clueless asexuality' as well

[quote]because according to you gay men cannot be masculine.

That is not even close to what I said. You're just being a PC cunt with your straw man rhetoric.

[quote]A masculine guy can ping.

Ok then, what is it about Alex that pings???

You haven't fucking answered that question. If masculine men can ping, then tell me what is it about Alex that does? If you can answer that question without bringing up one character trait, mannerism, behavior, or quality about him that can be construed in any way as typically feminine, then we can have a discussion about my supposed homophobia.

Now we should all feel bad

Alexa ScimecaKnierim@alexa_knierim I have had many people mock my faith after being public about it. (TSL) But I've also had WAY more people support me for being open about it. Stay true to what you believe! After all, the gay community gets slammed all the time, but they keep their heads up! I will too.

Alexa is coming out?

It's almost cruel this bitch is bringing the "gay community" to emotionally blackmail Dave. This bitch is surely not a friend of the gays. If she got ticked off by Dave's comment then call him on it. But she is indirectly shaming the Gay community for Dave's comment .

This bitch needs to be reminded that gays have been one of two audiences (the other being women over 60) that have remind loyal to the sport.

remain

" FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD ALEX AND ASHLEY PLEASE SHIT IN MY MOUTH! "

So is Alex Shibutani cut or uncut?

Lakernik says the investigation in the Golden Spin of Zagreb ice dance competion is still going on

The Belarus judge has officially resigned as international judge.

A FSU poster reported a rumour that the Turkish judge was caught with a list of ice dancers and scores next to them, before the Free Dance started.

The SD scores of the Turkish woman were, erm, interesting. She hammered Tiffany Zahorski/Jonathan Guerreiro and Alla Loboda/Pavel Drodz. She rated Agafonova/Ucar as high as possible but ok, nothing strage here. She rated Bobrova/Soloviev high. She went hard for Hurtado/Khaliavin over Smart/Diaz. And then she gave random scores to everyone else.

Mind you, the whole panel at Golden Spin seemed to have an agenda.

The US judge scored Guignard/Fabbri higher than Bobrova/Soloviev.

Anyone watch those 23 questions videos on YouTube? Hubbell and Donohue are barely not a couple--enough so that I wonder how often they slip into friends with benefits even after they stopped dating. Evan/Bates are a couple and it also shows. Nathan Chen comes off as a mild-mannered bro.

The Shibs, on the other hand, do the interview in dark glasses and don't give anything away. I think that's part of what it is with Alex--he's got that neutral air I sometimes see with "straight-acting" gay men. The only real sense I got is that they'd rather be in LA or NY than Detroit.

[quote] Anyone watch those 23 questions videos on YouTube? Hubbell and Donohue are barely not a couple--enough so that I wonder how often they slip into friends with benefits even after they stopped dating

Inappropriate.

Duhamel/Radford have changed FS. They are back at 2 seasons ago's program. That's what they are skating in practice at Nationals

Zach Donohue seems like a nice guy.

He also had the guts to call for gun control on Twitter a couple months ago after the latest mass shooting.

Just a few points...

1) Ashley Wagner is the single biggest bitch I've ever seen. Like unbelievable. She has been a HORRIBLE skater for many, MANY years now, yet lives in a complete fantasy land in her head where she thinks she's the greatest skater ever! Problem is, reality caught up with her and she predictably threw a temper tantrum. I'm so happy they didn't once again make the mistake of sending her to the Olympics.

2) Ross Miner was obviously screwed. Adam Rippon is not going to medal. Nathan Chen is the only one who has a serious chance of taking gold, and Vincent Zhou has a chance at bronze if others fail. But Rippon is similar to Ashley Wagner in the sense that they are BOTH bratty queens (and ironically are best friends) who think they are great skaters when they suck.

3) It is absolutely LAUGHABLE that Grant Hockstein is marrying Caroline Zhang. I guess the better looking figure skating "go to" beard, Tanith Belbin was already taken by Charlie White, so he had to "settle" for her. I really don't know. But there is no way in HELL he's straight.

4) And speaking of Tanith Belbin, supposedly she just had a baby 2 months ago with Charlie White. Yet I haven't seen ONE picture of her pregnant. I mean it's obvious Charlie White is gay, just as her previous "boyfriend" Evan Lysacek was. So did they adopt? Or do it via surrogate? I wonder... But something tells me it wasn't the "natural" way.

Off ice couples

Evan Bates and Madison Chock

Zach Donohue and Olivia Smart

Madison Hubbell and Adria Diaz

Penny Coomes and Nick Buckland

Charlene Guignard and Marco Fabbri

Sinistina and Katsalapov

Alisa Agafonova and Chafik Besseghier

Anna Cappellini and Ondrej Hotarek

Evgenia Tarasova and Vladimir Morozov

Kerstin Frank and Chris Reed

Kirsten Moore Towers Liam Firus

Eric Radford and Luis Fenero

last but not least our favorites, the Knierims

and I am sure I forgot some

I think Misha Ge and Natalia Zabiiako have split...

the 2 Danish Ice dancers too..Sorensen and Fournier Beaudry

and Lauriault/Legac. Ah, she got the French citizenship just before the end of the year.

R523, the Belbin/White pregnancy was only announced in October--I don't see any news online that there's a baby yet. If it was announced in October, the pregnancy was probably about 3 months along and would now be about 6 months--Tanith would only now really be starting to show--though a drapey top would still hide it.

I don't happen to think Charlie is gay, but if he were, there's no reason that Belbin couldn't be pregnant with his kid--that's what high-tech turkey basters are for.

Charlie mostly strikes me as a kind of earnest, somewhat nerdy jock--though he shows a talent for commentary.

Grant Hochstein on the other hand . . .

Yeah, I don't think Charlie White is gay.

He & Tanith Belbin appear to have a real relationship.

And the odds are that a real baby will make an appearance in a few months.

r512 No we shouldn't feel bad. Constantly bringing up your membership in an organization (born-again christianity) that has consistently stood for and devoted significant resources to hurting LGBT people and limiting their rights should absolutely be called out. She's pulling a fucking, "#NOTALLEVANGELICALS" and further is too stupid to understand why this is absolutely nothing like the experience of growing up being gay.

This is a false narrative that evangelicals tell themselves that white christians are the most victimized people in the country, and the scary part is they actually believe it.

I honestly don't care much if you choose to believe there's a magical man in the sky who can is so invested in figure skating that his goodness has determined the outcome of the US National Championship for pairs and also he has really fucked up opinions on women and sex, but don't start advertising harmful lies and untruths like an anti-vaccines loon.

Hope we get some nice shots of Paul Poirier's ass at Canadian Nationals this week.

Terry Gannon congratulated Tanith on tv about the baby! During the ice dance Nationals! I don't remember the exact words but the blessed event took place TWO months ago. That I remember. I never knew any timeline about the baby in any case. Perhaps, Tanith and Charlie's child was born prematurely and kept private! Prematurity is very serious depending on how many weeks along plus other factors. I do not know anything about their baby except what Terry Gannon said. There was no chit chat between them about it - the mood was happy - nothing off about what *was* said.

Speaking of "Terrence" Gannon, as Miss Weir calls him, I was surprised to see that he'd been covering skating since Peggy Fleming's day or thereabouts (NBC showed a photo of a much younger Gannon with Fleming and Dick Button at Yale). For someone who's seen that much skating, he often acts awfully dumb about the sport. I guess he leaves the opinionating to his skater sidekicks. Still, I'll take him over Scott Hamilton and/or Andrea Joyce, both of whom make me want to throw my remote through the screen.

I'll bet Alex has a big mushroom head dick that is cut, r517.

Thank you for that, R528. Her passive-aggressive victim act is the height of arrogance,

This DL gay is rooting for Ms. Scimeca-Knierim to fall on her precious Christian ass during the Olympics.

I can't believe Chris Knierim still can't land a triple jump to save his life.

Like, seriously, for an elite skater, who trains 4-6 hours a day, how fucking hard can it be to master a simple triple toe-loop or salchow? Boggles my mind.

R524 did you know all of that off the top of your head? It's both impressive and amusing. You made me smile.

r535 It boggles my mind how an organization as established as USFS can let the state of pairs disintegrate to what it is. I think we'd be better off sending Russ and bottom Kevin to skate together than the Knierems.

[quote]I'll bet Alex has a big mushroom head dick that is cut, [R517].

He's a lucky boy then.

Thanks for the input, R532.

In pairs, I really long for the days of Meno & Sand, Ina & Dungjen/Zimmerman. While they were never on the level of the Russians, those teams were so much more world class than today's. Since then... Inoue & Baldwin never quite got it all together, Brubaker and his partners showed potential (and his nice ass). Yankowskas & Coughlin looked like they were headed somewhere until they split up. The fact that the Knierems are the clear cut best is a pretty sad statement. I'm hoping Cain & LeDuc stick together long enough to maybe make some noise.

Then again, ice dance was equally sad about 20 years ago... Lang & Tchernyshev, Roca & Sur (ugh)... the fact that Eve Chalom, who is partially deaf, could medal in ice dance says it all. What Belbin & Agosto and Davis & White did for US ice dancing can't be understated.

r539 Agreed on the shape of ice dancing. I get that these things have ebbs and flows and that US never was the peak of pairs during the 90s peak of skating, but the current state is really atrocious. Same with the state of British figure skating generally.

R526 & R527, the baby is supposedly 2 months old as R530 said... I also heard Terry Gannon say it. Therefore, it's pretty strange that there is no evidence of her being pregnant. None the less, if Charlie White is not gay, he's extremely metrosexual to me... But the reason I thought he was gay immediately was because Tanith was a known beard and bearded for Evan before Charlie. When you add this to the weirdness surrounding this magical baby that appeared out of nowhere, it's strange to say the least...

And I agree with R535 & R537... I honestly don't know how pairs have gotten this bad. The Knierims should be humiliated to compete against the other pairs!

Savchenko/Massot have withdrawn from Euros. They want to concentrate on the preparation for Olympics.

So Tarasaova/Morozov and their crappy FS will win Gold. James/Cipres have a good shot at Silver but if Stolbova/Klimov skate clean, their Carolina style PCS will probably give them second place.

[R437] do you have a link to what was said about Maia?

Terry Gannon may have said it, but can you find any online announcement of the birth? Because all I've found is an announcement of the pregnancy back in October. It's not on Wikipedia. I think Gannon may have been confused--because I doubt he really cares that much.

Duhamel/Radford are recycling their Adele FS. Hasn't there been enough of this shit this season? And does it even matter what they skate to? Their programs all look exactly the same.

I've come to really hate Olympic season.

Ummm, r535, triple salchows are not as easy as they look.

Charlie's mom posted a picture of herself holding the baby (who is also named Charlie) on her Facebook around Christmas.

I somehow missed this in the news and I didn't see anyone mention it here so forgive me for posting this if you all already heard about it.

Ashley is trying to do serious damage control now by saying the USFSA made the "right decision," in leaving her off the team... but that she was still underscored.

Savchenko is working again on triple Axel throw. So it is either Gold or die at the Olympics

Ladies SP in Canada

1) Daleman 77.88

2) Osmond 71.41

3) Tamura 54.34

4) Long 54.11

5) Robinson 53.96

6) Austman 53.96

..

9) Chartrand 52.12

[quote]Charlie's mom posted a picture of herself holding the baby (who is also named Charlie) on her Facebook around Christmas.

So it looks like they had a boy?

Charlie Junior?

Canada has 3 Olympic spots for Ladies. They can pick the third girl at random. They can ask to borrow Ashley for a moment

r545 Why can't Duhamel get a decent stylist? Her partner is gay; even if he has no taste he must have some tasteful friends (tm). She always looks like a peppy post-menopausal substitute teacher. I'm not saying she's a natural Hedy Lamar, but she is definitely not doing herself any favors with her hair and makeup choices. Honestly, I think I'd like them more as a pairs group if they didn't remind me of a rejected Cheri Oteri character and her gay best friend Lurch.

r552 Wow. What's with the drop off in quality in Canadian women? I guess the men have been pretty top heavy (feels strange referring to Patrick Chan as a top, but... there we are) for a while with Reynolds and Nguyen and whoever else showing inconsistent flashes of talent but no clear other contenders for a while now.

1) Virtue/Moir 85.12

2) Gilles/Poirier 78.37

3) Soucisse/Firus 70.97

4) Weaver/Poje 70.31 (Poje fell during the twizzles. 0 points for the element)

Wagner and Miner withdraws from 4 Continents.

Angela Wang and Grant Hochstein will replace them

Of course Wagner withdrew. Is she retiring?

I wonder why Miner did. Too much insult?

Surely nobody thought the lazy bitch was going to go compete in Taiwan...the Japanese girls would embarrass her further anyway.

Alaine Chartrand was decent a few seasons ago. What happened to her?

because if he goes there and loses to Keji Tanaka and Takahito Mura, even the cleaning lady of USFSA offices will cry "no wonder we didn't select him"?

So did Wagner just figure out that having a tantrum was bad for her post-retirement career?

Poor Russ Miner.

Hmmm, so the baby thing is weird--maybe they did adopt or use a surrogate.

So is Duchamel straight? Cuz she looks like mini-dyke with the hair and D/R have anti-chemistry. I mean, they must get along, but they project a profound lack interest in one another.

I will gladly loan Ashley to Canada. We have plenty of other entitled people.

[quote]So did Wagner just figure out that having a tantrum was bad for her post-retirement career?

I would bet her Manager told her to cut the crap because they were going to lose sponsorship money.

Isn't Duhamel married to their coach?

SP at Nationals

1) Duhamel/Radford 81.78

2) Seguin/Bilodeau 68.51

3) Moore-Towers/Marinaro 68.28

4) Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch (she really can't land a SBS jump to safe her life) 65.45

Does Canada get 2 pairs for Olympics or one? And are Duhamel/Radford still a medal contender?

OMG, Luba and Dylan went back to their last season SP too. What the hell? The Phil Collins program was actually good. It's the cheesy FS that she should have changed. So many terrible decisions this season.

Watching Canadian men's nationals. Two competitors back to back skated to One Republic's Secrets back to back. I've seen duplicate programs before (Katarina vs Debi's Carmen, the 3 you raise me ups at worlds 2016), but I don't think I've seen back-to-back programs in a major competition before

Crazy Eyes from Canada says he's focusing on the Team Event and not the individual event... probably because he realizes he has no chance in hell at a medal there.

[quote]Katarina vs Debi's Carmen

Speaking of which, how did that happen? Did they both randomly choose that music or did Debi choose it first and Katarina decide to use it to mess with her?

I know Debi was using it prior to the Olympics (Skate Canada, I believe)... when did Katarina actually debut her program? Was it in Calgary?

r565 I hope Canada doesn't win just to prevent him from getting a gold he doesn't deserve. I can't believe he almost lucked his way into a Gold last Olympics in that splatfest fiasco. It must be hard for somebody who has been so pampered and so catered to have to limp on in a sport that they clearly peaked in long ago.

And now another Disturbed Sound of Silence program! Between US and Canadian nationals this is #4 in the senior competition level.

Who has been the most successful black male figure skater? Debi and Surya both have Olympic or World medals for women, but has there been a black world medal skater? I mention because Elladj Balde had a great skate at Canadian nationals, and looking him up he somehow made it worlds in 2013-2014 but finished well off a medal.

Elladj Baldé, wow. Incredible skate. Who'd-a thunk Canada would produce a terrific black male figure skater? Beautifully expressive dancer, too.

R473 Danielle Brezina's grammar is so poor because she never went to school. She basically spent every day at the skating rink, her parents sure at 6 and 7 years old she would be an Olympian. I have no idea why, the talent was never there.

Something must be up, her parents could write that $4000 check, no problem.

down goes Patrick

Is there any chance crazy eyes wouldn't make the Olympic team?

that is a ridiiiiiculous score for Patrick. 2 botched jumps? the fix is in.

Isn't Chan sort of like Wagner? They inflate his scores constantly and so he believe she deserves even better scores?

None of the Canadian men are consistent, but they know Crazy Eyes will at least get good PCS. He's going no matter what. The second spot is a wild card. I like Nic and Elladj but whoever melts down the least will probably get it, I guess.

[quote]Isn't Chan sort of like Wagner? They inflate his scores constantly and so he believe she deserves even better scores?

Yeah, and they have both been phoning it in for awhile. But Chan is objectively a better skater than she ever was.

Yeah, Patrick was the real deal. Ashley lucked into that silver at Worlds--she did have a great skate for her--but that medal was all about Gracie's implosion and the ISU's determination to break the American Ladies medal drought at Worlds while it was in Boston. Ashley was lucky that Gracie fell apart in the FS after winning the short and Polina Edmunds, who'd had a great short and an okay free at Nationals, so had silver, had that fluke foot injury.

It's not an accident that Ashley's rankings slid right back down--it was a mercy medal in the first place--but Ashley doesn't understand that. She thinks she's that good.

Patrick had a lot of talent, but he also has been consistently over-scored forever. He's been mid-career Michelle Kwan since the beginning of his career. He skates beautifully and has a lot of talent, but his performances are often uninspiring and judges don't care because he's family friendly and they need somebody from North America to do well to keep the sport alive. He's been insufferable his entire career. Ashley has always been a knife's edge away from a tantrum, but there's an honesty in her outspokenness that was admirable for a while before she learned all the wrong lessons and went off the deep end. Patrick has always just been petulant.

I don't like Kevin Reynolds skating. I have nothing against him personally (don't really know that much), but I find his skating juvenile and frantic. He's had some impressive jumps, but they don't even feel athletic... they feel wild. If he reminds me of anyone, it's Tara L, but without the joy. I'd much prefer Nam or Eladj, but Nam's skating fluctuates so badly that sometimes you watch him and think "how did he qualify at Senior levels?"

For Canadians being so well-liked, Canada has surely produced some truly insufferable men's figure skaters. Chanbot, Toller Cranston, Elvis Stojko, Kurt Browning... I guess Brian Orser turned out ok?

[quote] I guess Brian Orser turned out ok?

Don't fool yourself!

[quote]For Canadians being so well-liked, Canada has surely produced some truly insufferable men's figure skaters. Chanbot, Toller Cranston, Elvis Stojko, Kurt Browning... I guess Brian Orser turned out ok?

Emanuel Sandhu was also a bit of a diva (understatement?). Really talented, though. I also find Scott Moir insufferable, and Megan Duhamel. Hated Sale/Pelletier too. I quite like a lot of Canadian skaters as well, but I guess it's just a North American thing to have so many polarizing personalities in the sport.

Yes, Ms. Kim, at R579, what was that all about with Orser? You never explained? What exactly did re do that made you dump him after he helped you win Olympic gold? (After all, that season you were beaten in the FS at Skate America by Racheal Flatt, for god's sake! )

[quote] Does Canada get 2 pairs for Olympics or one?

Canada for Olympics have 2 Men, 3 Ladies, 3 Pairs, 3 Ice Dance

I forgot Emanuel Sandhu was Canadian! But yes another insufferable Canadian. Also, he currently looks terrible. Has he been bleaching his skin? Has he been seeing Max Aaron's 'dentist'? He used to be kind of cute, but now he looks rather alien-like.

Canadians are funny looking.

[R577], Ashley didn't luck into the silver because the USFS wanted to end its ladies drought and Gracie imploded. Gracie was the second to last skater in Boston and even with her implosion was held up in 3rd place before Ashley skated. Gracie was primed for the podium and Ashley simply came out and smashed it. Ashley may not be everybody's taste, but there's no denying that she rocked it in Boston.

Here's a link to continue this thread when this one fills up.

r585 I think it was a little bit of both. Ashley did skate well at Boston Worlds, but its also one of the only times she hasn't been called out for serious jump under-rotation, and I think all the US women were over-scored. I actually think Ashley likely would have gotten the bronze on her own merit. I remember thinking that the Japanese girl that wasn't Mao Asada was underscored in both the short and free, but honestly it's hard to remember. That free skate is the best she has ever looked on the international stage.

That Worldss was weird. Hanyu and Gracie imploded after phenomenal short programs. I'm almost surprised Hanyu managed to hang on for Silver after setting what seemed like an unbeatable score in the short, and somehow when Gracie couldn't medal the feeling in the arena was that she'd never recover...

Javier was peak hotness that year.

Agreed. Ashley saw an opening and rose to the occasion, but I think if the Worlds had been anywhere but Boston that she would have ended up in third and Pogosplat in second. Pogo also had a brilliant FS

Debbi Wilkes during the live streaming of Ladies SP at Canadian Nationals:

“In comparison to some of the other competitors in the world, our competitors move, they cover the ice…I often feel some of the European competitors are like little mice moving around the ice surface.”

let's hope those little mices from Russia will run over the inflated Osmond

Carolina: they called me horseface but never a rat!

the third Canadian lady, whoever she will be, can cover al the ice she wants. Especially with the splats.

Patrick's fans are also spinmasters much like Ashley's. They think he deserves sympathy because he had a meltdown after Skate Canada and didn't skate for awhile. Now he's not well trained enough. Uh...so maybe he should have kept training and not withdrew from NHK? Why would I feel sorry for someone who took that much time off in the Olympic season? He's had months to get it together. If you don't want to train, then why not retire with some dignity and let someone else have your spot who does want to work?

R581, Ms. Kim is lucky she is from South Korea.

In North Korea, losing to Rachael Flatt is punishable by firing squad.

[quote}Who has been the most successful black male figure skater?

Robin Szolkowy

Kostner has dumped Minish and is officially back with Huth

So is the consensus that Wagner actually earned her medal at Worlds or were her scores inflated there as well? (I honestly don't remember).

oh wait, Kostner issued a press release to say she has not dumped good old Minshin. Ste states that both Minshin and Huth are part of her coaching team; she has been training in Obersdorf lately to stay closer to her family but she is in contact with Minshin daily.

Canada Nationals schedule for today

Ladies FS Group 1 -2

Free Dance

Ladies FS Group 3

Men FS Group 1-2

Pairs FS

Men FS Group 3

For Ladies and Men getting to skate in final group or not is even more important given final group skate in a total different time compared to the rest.

[quote]So is the consensus that Wagner actually earned her medal at Worlds or were her scores inflated there as well?

I think it's a little bit of both. I think she deserved her medal, but luck definitely played a big factor. Ashley gave all she was capable of as a skater that night, for better or worse. She skated two "clean" programs that were perfectly designed to mask her weaknesses while highlighting her strengths to the hilt. And she sold those programs like her life depended on it.

But even given that, she still needed a little help--home crowd advantage, and most importantly, a very generous technical caller.

Still, I think she deserved it, with the full knowledge that this was a perfect conflation of events that would never be repeated again, and that we had witnessed the apex of Ashley's skating career. I think even Ashley knew that, hence the lackluster subsequent seasons. She had nothing left to give.

You put Worlds 2016 in another country, with a different tech caller, and I doubt Ashley would've medaled. But that's skating: sometimes luck smiles on you, sometimes not.

Still, I would much rather watch Ashley that season than Pogosplat or Radianova with her god awful Titanic program.

112 FS for Chartrand. 162 points overall. It may be enough for the third place

r592 I had completely forgotten about him. He was talented and hot. And he always seemed to keep his head down despite their team being in hot water. His partner almost didn't get citizenship before Torino, and then their coach was almost denied entry into Italy for collusion with the Stasi, and then if I remember there was some racist backlash in Germany, but he never seemed phased by any of it.

Nice body too.

I agree with you, R585. Ashley actually had the performance of the night in Boston. Everyone knew it. The crowd went wild. I'm no fan of Wagner, but she really brought it that night. Frankly, she's been living off that moment and hasn't skated anywhere near that level since then, which is why I was glad the USFSA left her off the Olympic team this year.

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