Figure Skating 2018, PT. III

Link to previous thread:

No, no, no, yes, yes.

r2 Your answer to Question 4 is vague: yes he will prove he deserved to make it or yes he will fuck it up again?

Speaking of the Gracie tweets, her shading has been, while passive aggressive, quite delightful. She's been snarky without being cruel and she's finally showed some level of personality that she never showed from 2013-2016.

People here seem really torn on Johnny/Tara. I don't care much for them outside of commentary, but I like their commentary. If you had to pick one person to best represent skating as "a personality" who would it be? In the 90s they were shoving Scott Hamilton down our throats as Mr. Personality, and it almost worked. I loved him until Rudy Galindo won Nationals and his true colors as a homophobic cultural gatekeeper started showing. (Interestingly, for a conservative sport that seems to force people into the closet, it seems like the general public started turning on Hamilton the more 'wholesome' he tried to get. Remember Johnny/Tara were only supposed to do the morning live stream commentary (the Shannon Miller commentary, if you will) and it wasn't until people realized they were actually good that they kicked off the A team and promoted them.

Anyone else remember when Tara wanted nothing to do with skating when she thought she was going to be an actress? Then when no one wanted to hire the short, hobbit-looking creature she suddenly loves skating again and misses it sooooo much and, oh look at that, I'm commentating for NBC now, and I loooove it.

Tara has always been a spoiled basic white bitch.

r4 I don't entirely blame her. She fucked up her body doing a combination that nobody even attempts anymore and she's the only person I can think of that won the US a gold medal and was hated because of it. I'd be tired of the sport too if I were her. Meanwhile all this happened when she was... 15? 16? She couldn't even legally vote and people were telling her that they hated her.

I'm not saying she should be absolved of anything prissy she said, but skating screws up a lot of people. It's 6 hours of training minimum every day from the time you are 10 until the time you are 22-23 at least. No wonder these people are screwed up, they've had no time to develop as people.

It's amazing to me that Tara seems as reasonable as she does now as an adult. And she never was involved in a plot to injure or kill Michelle Kwan nor was she arrested for buying meth. So she has that going for her. Would you rather have her be Nancy Kerrigan still skating to Wicked on Ice in 4 nights a week in Peoria but unable to do any jump above a double toe?

She had limited options - she tried one of them and it didn't work so she pivoted and succeeded. If you think she's insufferable, that's fine. But don't act like marketing herself for her job is a crime.

Weir is so much more annoying than Tara

[quote]she's the only person I can think of that won the US a gold medal and was hated because of it.

Only because you bitches keep forgetting I even existed.

I really did not expect to like Johnny and Tara as a commentating team. I actually expected to dislike them. But when I heard them together, I knew NBC had something special. Johnny is very articulate and insightful, and he's not afraid to be a little bitchy/snarky at times (one of the things that made Dick Button great). Tara. while not as strong on her own (and no Peggy Fleming), complements him well. And Terry Gannon plays along well. Someone in the previous thread was bashing Gannon for being dumb about skating despite covering it for many years. I don't think that's the case at all. He knows what he's talking about, but he also realizes a lot of viewers only follow the sport very casually... once every year or four. The questions he asks and comments he makes are not because he doesn't know... they're for the casual viewers who may not have the knowledge that hardcore fans might.

With Johnny and Tara, and Tanith capably handling ice dance, I don't know why they even keep Hamilton around any more.

[quote] I loved him until Rudy Galindo won Nationals and his true colors as a homophobic cultural gatekeeper started showing.

Fill me in? I don't know what he did to Rudy.

Caroline Zhang was attempting and landing the triple loop-triple loop combination, R5. I don't know about this year, but she did land it and get credited for it at last year's Nationals.

Gracie misses the spotlight (hence the tweeting and attending Nationals) but I don't think she's going to compete again, no matter what she says.

Javi and Hanyu make a cute couple.

I'm sure everyone in U.S figure skating absolutely loved that out gay and HIV positive Rudy Galindo won nationals.

R10 Zhang still tries to do it.

The second 3Lo of the combo was called under-rotated both at Nepela and in Tallin this year. At Nationals, I think she fell on the first 3Lo.

I think Alex Shibutani is handsome. Any gossip? Maybe he's gay.

R10 R13 I forgot Caroline Zhang soon to be Caroline Hochstein also does the 3Lo3Lo in the SP. SO yes, she got it at Nationals 2018 too.

At Nepela she fell and in Tallin she got the second 3Lo called UR. Or the opposition (fall in in Tallin and UR at Nepela)

Thanks for all the info about Zhang. No matter what, good for her.

How does Zhang handle a limp dick?

Are Grant and Caroline waiting until the wedding night?

Why do USFSA want people to pay for skaters family members trip to PyeongChang?

I loved the article from the Part II that figure skating ruins lives that R349 posted in that thread. I think Oksana Baiul partially crashed and burned because she had the Olympic Gold handed to her despite her two-foot jumps in the short and long, as well as other mistakes. When she went pro, all of a sudden everyone was criticizing her and the judges realized she basically skated from the waist up and was queen of the two-footed landing. The 1994 Olympic judges were sick to death of the Tonya-Nancy saga (don't blame them) and Oksana seemed like a refreshing young princess. Too much handed to her too soon that she didn't deserve, then the resulting criticism when she was still just a teenager, must have been hell to deal with. Enormous consumption of vodka ensued.

r20 Baiul/Kerrigan was very much an east vs. west

Agreed, R21, but it doesn't change my observation.

M'eh. Baiul didn't go crazy because she was "handed" anything. I actually disagree that she shouldn't have won. Kerrigan may have had better technical content but she skated like she was bored and hated it. Kerrigan got the technical mark above Baiul (although it's hilarious that the US judge gave the technical score to Baiul). She lost the Gold on the artistic mark and I think it had to do more with her being so passionless on the ice. They generally like to reward the athlete that skates like they like it (just ask Michelle!)

Anyway, you can debate whether or not Kerrigan or Baiul should have won until the world ends. It's not going to make a difference. But her (Baiul) winning, isn't the reason she became so screwed up. I'd say her unfortunate childhood is what messed her up. She never properly got the help she needed after that.

I forget did Baiul get marked down for the 2 foot landings?

As a 14 yo boy I cried when Kerrigan lost to Baiul, how fucking gay was I?

[quote]I forget did Baiul get marked down for the 2 foot landings?

Did she two foot more than one landing? As far as if she was marked down her scores ranged from:

5.5, 5.6, 5.7, five 5.8's, and a 5.9.

Kerrigan got six 5.8s and three 5.7's.

Oh, I was wrong. The US judge didn't give the technical mark to Kerrigan, he tied them. I've always thought that was odd.

This is what I like about the new system, you can't get away with fucking up landings like Sarah hughes.

Canada Nationals

1) Virtue/Moir 209.82 (FS: all level 4s, all +3 GOE, all 10s)

2) Gilles/Poirier 192.08

3) Weaver/Poje 191.09

4) Soucisse/Firus 180.73

5) Arnold/Williams 158.53

Canada Nationals are known for their super inflated marks.

Piper had some issues in the twizzles today. They almost lost second place even with one element advantage. W/P beats them in the FS by 7 points.

So who is favored for the gold, V/M or C/G?

r30 Who is C/G?

Forward directly to the end to see Piper Gilles and Carole Lane being as OTT (some would say insufferable) as they can be when they see they are ahead of W/P.

R31 Cizeron/Guillaume?

He will skate with himself. Papadakis can stay at home.

It's a car crash for third Olympic spot in Canada

Larkyn Austman with, 1 UR, 1 fall and 2 step outs leads Alaine Chartrand 169 to 164 points.

Only Osmond and Daleman left.

Shot to the backstage with Austman crying as she is hugged by her coach and her choreographer.

Basil was reigning World Champ going into the Olympics, so she was no underdog, despite the constant poor orphan drivel put forth by the media. Her technical marks should have been much lower since she 2-footed more than one jump.

Canadian Nationals - Ladies

1. Gabrielle Daleman 229.78

2. Kaetlyn Osmond 218.73

3. Larkyn Austman 169.62

4. Alaine Chartrand 164.21

Daleman really did a great job and she was skating with pneumonia!

r36 Piper Gilles is just... not that great? She's good throughout the lifts, but I just don't see quality in the skating. The announcer mentions that she lost the edge in the first twizzle, but she's sloppy in the 3rd as well, and she adds steps throughout the program that aren't necessary.

I know its their first outing with this program, but I just don't see it happening for them.

People give Guillaume credit for being the clear best of his pair, but could you imagine how successful Poirier would be with somebody of his talents next to him? Honestly, he'd probably be great with Maia (US/Canada could rock paper scissor who gets to send them to the Olympics.)

Canadian Olympic team will be announced tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. ET

Have they fucked?

Man, the FS threads have heated up here.

I made the comment about Ashley's silver being a gift at Worlds. I still think it was, but I do think she might have medalled with a bronze elsewhere. She *did* have a great skate at Boston--her all-time best--and she is a terrific performer. So, the silver was a little generous, but nowhere near as generous as, say, Sotnikova getting Gold in Sochi. But Ashley's basic skating skills have always been an issue--she didn't, from what I understand, have great early training. So lot's of two-footed skated, issues with clean jumps, well-centered jumps. The Golden Skate forum is having a big Chen v. Wagner thread--Chen's flakey and not as interesting a performer, but the girl knows how to move around the ice in a way Ashley never has.

Skating fans are weird--they get their favorites and then get so besotted with them that they'll be brutal and unfair about other skaters--so, yeah, Tara Lipinski had the skate of her life in Nagano and got cold-shouldered because she'd beaten Queen Michelle. I personally preferred Kwan's skate to Lipinski, but this stuff happens. So now you have Ashley Wagner fans who will never forgive Chen for beating their queen. You still have Mirai fans who growl about Polina Edmunds winning silver and going to the Olympics . Both Adam Rippon and Vincent Zhou are getting attacked for their Olympic berths--while, as usual, the people who actually make the decisions go unscathed.

Gilles/Poirier--better music, but you can tell the program is new--the skating's just not that dynamic and Gilles is just kind of stiff in the upper body. They do have that drama kids problem--the play-acting's obvious--if you're going to do that, I think you have to be like Davis/White--they came off as two American kids putting on a show in the barn, but then having these mad skillz. and speed.

The Candian commentators are (as politely as possible) shitting on all the men today. They've noted that the Canadian men have struggled all year across all levels of competition. I don't know if they're expressing disappointment or trying to temper expectations for Olympics.

Brian Orser's 13 year old wunderkind with a quad lutz is kind of impressive, but why even have him skate at senior levels this year? What's the benefit over keeping him at Juniors and dominating the competition while allowing him to grow since he has no legal chance of going to the Olympics?

r41 Agreed on ALL POINTS. Davis/White never came across as a "romantic" couple, and yet they excelled in performance where mid-career Virtue/Moir didn't in that they eschewed it entirely and went for dance showmanship. They pulled right from the competitive dance (on non-ice) play book, and they were all the more incredible to watch for it. I don't hate Tessa like some people do here, and I do think she has some good chemistry, but it's like season 2 of Moonlighting - you can't rely on will-they/won't-they forever. You have to deliver something new, and at Sochi they didn't.

I fear though that everyone has learned the wrong lessons from Sochi. All the dancers think "well, I guess we have to end the program at 3x speed" instead of thinking "I guess we have to tell a compelling story that ends on a high note" (See the G/P performance linked above)

Is it normal for Canadian National Championships to split FS as they are doing? I mean, crap Ladies, then Ice Dance, then top Ladies, then crap Men, then Pairs, finally less crap Men instead of doing all Ladies, then all Men, etc?

It seems a lot of people go over time in free skate now while holding spins too long. How many points is it for going over time vs how many points do you get for holding a spin for an extra two seconds to increase the difficulty?

r9 I don't remember exactly what went down, but Galindo won the 1996 Nationals after having been a wash-up for nearly a decade. He had come on to the scene skating pairs with Kristi Yamaguchi (they were rather good, but she was better and went on... well to be Kristi Yamaguchi). Galindo struggled with skating and drugs and both his coach and brother died of AIDS.

Galindo was glass closet. So flaming that everyone knew he was gay, but refusing to answer direct media inquiries. It was also a known secret that he was HIV+ (although I think he didn't officially reveal his status until later...). But Galindo's skating was very feminine and, like Johnny Weir, he often was graded down even when he had great skates, and great skates were often few and far between. However, he came back and had a brilliant long program at nationals and won. All in all, it should have been a wonderful capping to his amateur career. Coming back from tragedy and skating the performance of his singles career, and it should have been drama free (it wasn't an Olympic year so who really cares who wins Nationals).

But commentators were pretty vicious. They had been promoting Eldridge for years and because he was marketable and straight-enough, they acted like the national championship was a fluke and not a celebratory capstone. Hamilton was particularly non-effusive, and his whole commentator schtick was to be the wild and crazily effusive one. And there was pretty significant Hamilton backlash. In fact, Hamilton would write a book a year or two later and discuss his "evolving feeling" on gays in sports, probably in direct response to the lackluster response people gave him (Yamaguchi had been doing a bunch of pro-tour events with Hamilton and was still incredibly marketable and she started giving him the cold shoulder.

It's been a while since I read Hamilton's book (and I do not recommend it) but I remember him going through the (already known) discussion of how his homophobia prevented him from wearing typical costumes, but then later he talked about how he was learning to accept different styles of skating and people now that he had more self-confidence and was no longer afraid of people calling him gay. He then outed (dead) Rob McCall saying that he helped him become less homophobic.

I was fairly young and still competing when all this was going on, so somebody may have a better memory of the reaction at the time, but it was honestly the first time I had sensed some "pro-Gay acceptance" out loud and it was all the more surprising because it was being directed at the unimpeachable Hamilton and not... like Rosalyn Sumners or somebody who was less liked but equally as homophobic.

Virtue/Moir have made changes in their FD and it comes across far better IMO. This is the first time I've actually enjoyed watching it and that last change they made right at the end is a huge improvement over the "dying in his arms" that seemed to just fade out.

Osmond needs some kind of intensive training because once she hits the 2 minute mark in her long program, she's done for the day. It's great that Daleman went clean but that program won't get her near the Olympic podium.

Rudi and Kristi were actually two-time Nationals champs in pairs before she decided to go solo, so it was a big deal for Rudi who didn't have the same kind of success as a solo skater. As I recall, he was so broke that he lived in a trailer and his sister acted has his coach.

Rudi wasn't in the glass closet when he won in 1996--he'd come out in Christine Brennan's book--so he was the first openly gay U.S. men's champion.

It was a big deal, locally, when he won the championship--Scott Hamilton's snippy attitude was not appreciated.

He now coaches Kristi Yamaguchi's daughter, so I guess they're on okay terms now. Also choreographs for Polina Edmunds.

r47 So you're saying Kristi and Rudy were on bad terms when they split?

r47 I had forgotten that he was officially out out. I do think he hadn't officially revealed his status at the time of the National Championships though.

It was a big deal everywhere (in skating) when he won the championship. It wasn't as big as if Tonia Kwiatowski had beaten Michelle, but it was seen as a huge upset. But even the homophobes at local ice rinks that were less than enthused about Rudy now being the national champion, sort of realized that the lack of fanfare over his ability to come back from so much was really unfair to him on a personal level. It's crazy to think how attitudes have changed/not changed in 20 years, but given how homophobic the culture was it was rather heartwarming to see people turn on Hamilton.

The craziest part of this story, is that Hamilton wasn't even on the national broadcast commentary for the event. It was Dick Button and Brian Boitano! And both of them (on air) were incredibly supportive of Rudy. Dick Button, as much as he annoyed me, was magnanimous to Rudy's talent and performance and was really able to appreciate many different styles of skating. It was after Nationals that Hamilton was snippy. If I recall, Eldridge behaved poorly (I don't remember what exactly he did...) And Hamilton went out of his way to insert himself in the conversation and talk about Eldridge as a model ambassador for the sport.

R48, I think the split did initial leave some bad feelings in Rudy because it really wasn't clear at the time whether he could make it as a singles skater.

^^ initially

[quote]Virtue/Moir have made changes in their FD and it comes across far better IMO. This is the first time I've actually enjoyed watching it and that last change they made right at the end is a huge improvement over the "dying in his arms" that seemed to just fade out.

I actually think the new ending is worse. Maybe it's because I've gotten used to the somber ending, but this new one (to me) makes the program feel even more disjointed, like each section should be a separate program itself. The opening is so intense and rather dark, telling the story of a prostitute, then abruptly changes to a swelling, uplifting love ballad. It feels very unbalanced tonally.

Plus the crescendo-y ending sounds badly edited in.

But, with the crazy inflated scores they got at Nationals, and this last-minute change, people are now seriously talking about them again leading up to the Olympics, which is mission accomplished I suppose.

It'll be interesting to see if P/C go to Euros. They could go, and have an amazing performance and steal some press and momentum back before the games, or play it safe and stay home to rest/focus for the games. Tough call.

Euros is this week so I very much doubt P/C are planning to withdraw at the last minute. It's an easy win for them anyway.

r52 I agree with you. But as much as I think the program is a tacky mess, I'm surprised how much I love seeing Moir in the mesh sided shirt.

r50 I imagine it must have. I also guess its one of those things that it would be easier for Rudy to see Kristi's side later. He was a (self-proclaimed) mess and she was difficult and driven. Of course if somebody left you right when your personal and professional life started to slide and they only seemed to get more and more successful you would have difficulty moving on gracefully. And on Kristi's side, well - she didn't seem to care much for other people's opinions during her ascendance. The interviews (both at the time and retrospective) on how she felt as an Asian American skater make it clear that she had decided steely grit was how she was going to handle fame and success. It certainly worked for her.

Yamaguchi lost me when she campaigned for Mitt Romney's presidential bid, but I had nothing against her as a skater and feel she made the right choice going solo.

I always found Kristi to be a rather dull skater. Plus she has a flat head and the face of a frog. Delicate but not a beauty at all.

I can't believe she supported Romney either. So many skaters are from upper middle class, conservative Republican backgrounds...so actually it shouldn't surprise me at all.

Canada.......that's up north somewhere....isn't it....I mean like Michigan or some place?

r57 The Shibutanis live in Michigan, dear. Not one of your stronger efforts.

Men (2 spots)

1. Patrick Chan 272.24

2. Keegan Messing 259.25

3. Nam Nguyen 258.16

4. Elladj Balde 250.28 5

5. Kevin Reynolds 249.30

Messing who switched from US to Canada to have a chance...and it looks like he did the right move

PAIRS (3 Olympic spots)

1. Duhamel/Radford 234.55

2. Seguin/Bilodeau 213.00

3. Moore-Towers/Marinaro 209.85

4. Ilyushechkina/Moscovitch 190.53

Disappointed for I/M but they were too messy. Today and all season

R45, thanks for that. I was very young that year so I missed the finer points of his win.

There was definitely tension between Rudi and Kristi after she dropped him to focus on singles. Can you blame him? They were National champions and ranked fairly high at Worlds (4th)? He wasn't as good of a single skater as she was at the time so he would understandably feel like she fucked him over. She was his shot to make it to the Olympics (and they most likely would have).

I remember reading an article published around 1992 when she competed in Albertville. Rudy gave some quotes that weren't pro-Kristi. The writer commented on how there was animosity on his part and bitterness. Kristi was asked about it and she said that she understood where he was coming from. I don't think it was until after 1996 that they made amends. I recall reading something where he said he finally understood where she was coming from and that she didn't end their partnership to screw him over.

About Kristi and Romney... that was something I never understood.

She filmed the video, however it wasn't an endorsement of his Candidacy. Apparently she and other athletes were asked to film something regarding Romney's handling of the SLC Olympics (which apparently she was part of the organization). It was then used in a super pac commercial. I can understand how something you filmed for other reasons could then be used for other purposes without it being your original intent (I work in film/entertainment and I've seen it happen over and over).

Kristi's people made a statement shortly after clarifying that her appearance in that statement about the SLC Olympics was NOT an endorsement for Romney.

HOWEVER the follow up statement was that Kristi hadn't decided who she was voting for.

REALLY?

Come on.

r62 Yes, (1) her publicist did come out and say it wasn't an endorsement and (2) the SuperPAC people were clear to have the athletes (it was Kristi and that luge guy who once had a torrid affair with a secretary at my office) only say things like "Mitt Romney saved the Olympics" and not have them say anything specific about the presidential race... but, come on! What do you imagine those spots would be used for if not for an election ad? It seemed like a case of trying to have your cake and make money eating it too.

r59 Poor Nam Nguyen. He seemed to almost give up when he had that awful showing at world's a few years ago, but he really seemed to bounce back recently only for somebody from a shithole country to come in and take his Olympic spot. I wonder if he'll stick around another 4 years. He's still young, but Canada has a whole slew of quad monsters just waiting in the wings.

So looks like no gold medal hopes for Canada this year. The French get the ice dancing, the Russians get the women's, and zero hope for men's or pairs.

Wrong, R65. We're totally gonna win the Team Gold!!!!

Do you think someone at Getty Images is a Patrick Chan Stan? This is one of Javi's photo's from a Getty portrait session.

R66- I doubt it. The team needs skaters with some kind of consistency and right now, there's not a Canadian who can do that.

God Javi is hot to death! Do Spanish men in general have the same (or slightly lower) level of hotness? Such a shame Miki was unable to hold on to that dick.

I've never heard of Elladj Balde but that guy can MOVE. It's too bad he doesn't have the jumps because I'd rather see him represent Canada than Patrick Chan. Actually, since Chan can't really do his jumps anymore, they might as well send Balde.

[quote]... she was difficult and driven... she didn't seem to care much for other people's opinions during her ascendance. The interviews (both at the time and retrospective) on how she felt as an Asian American skater make it clear that she had decided steely grit was how she was going to handle fame and success.

r55 - I never got the impression that Kristi was as mean and cold as you make her sound - then or now. Is that a universal perception that I've just missed?

r69 - Generally speaking I think Spanish men are very good-looking.

r71 I didn't say she was mean. Cold... depends on your definition. I always thought she was a warm presence, but not necessarily a warm friend. She was driven and focused and was fairly closed off. Like I said, I had nothing against her and thought she made smart decisions for her. She was photogenic and when she turned pro shortly after hitting her peak, she was the main draw of the pro circuit. She was show-y and fun and seemed to have good business sense.

Then the Romney thing happened and I was over it.

Given that she's Asian-American and from the Bay Area, it is surprising that Kristi came out for Mitt. That said, a lot of athletes seem to skew conservative--they don't want to pay taxes and they have a bit of a black/white winner-take-all mentality. Kristi seems to have some decent traits, but I suspect she's not a big deep thinker.

According to Wikipedia, Rudi came out right before 1996 Nationals--and I kind of remember that he was out. He didn't reveal his HIV status until 2000, though.

Kristi had a tough choice--being U.S. Ladies champion is a bigger deal than being pairs champion. She went pro right after winning Olympic gold, even though the next Winter games were only two years later--she and her team knew that she might not have the jumps to hold onto gold a second time.

She and Rudi would have had a much harder time getting any kind of pairs medal at the Olympics. She made the right choice for her career, but it was tough on Rudi, who was short for a male pairs skater, so wasn't going to have an easy time finding another partner.

I don't recall Tara getting the cold shoulder at all. Sure, Kwan was loved by a lot of fans, but plenty others loved the fresh, effervescent style that Tara brought. I do remember some grumbling that she quite the sport too early, and that her mother was a raging bitch to deal with, but that had nothing to do with Tara.

[quote[she and her team knew that she might not have the jumps to hold onto gold a second time.

I don't think that's correct. She turned Pro because she had already won Gold. There was no need for her to stay amateur. They decided to cash in when they could... only it didn't amount to what they thought it would.

And funnily enough she still had the jumps through at least 98. Wasn't she still doing triple-triples in Pro Am competitions?

At the time, you had Tonya Harding and Midori Ito coming out with triple axels. It wasn't at all clear that that wasn't going to be the future of the sport. And Kristi wasn't going to get a triple axel. So, her mother actually said something like Silver, then gold looks good, gold, then silver, not so much. Since it was only two years between those Winter Olympics, it really wasn't that big a gap.

And, yes, ironically, Kristi kept going along and actually getting better as a pro skater--and triple triples, not triple axels became the mainstay of Ladies skating. She had one of the better pro careers--there wasn't another American gold medalist til Tara Lipinski, who quit skating because of injury. Then there was Sarah Hughes of the freak win and, then poof, no more American Ladies gold medalists.

We'll have to see what Alysa Liu is like in four years.

Alysa who?

R64 How many coaches has Nam changed in the last couple of years?

I think he left Orser at the end of 2015-16 season and moved to David Glyn. He moved to Tracey Wainman at the end of 2016. And a couple of months ago he moved to Robert Burke.

I guess it can be difficult psychologically when you were described as the next big thing and then struggling so much. So when you don't get results, you think jumping to a new coach is the solution.

On FSU some said he listens too much to his tiger papa. And that he is lazy in the off-ice training (and that's the cause of friction with some of his previous coaches).

Patrick's program today was lifeless, dull, plodding, not challenging, and not even particularly well skated. Elladj has the energy, Nam has the youth, and Keegan has the jumps. The fix was in for Patrick tonight, and listening to the commentators slobber over him was nauseating.

Not a Kevin Reynolds fan, but was sad to see him at 5th.

Yeah, Nam apparently doesn't believe in off-ice training which is honestly crucial.

Nam is slow as molasses and he looked very gawky for awhile after he got so tall. His skating doesn't do anything for me and I am sick to death of the recycled programs this season.

I watched a couple of his livestreams with Roman when they were training together & they seemed to be flirting nonstop with each other, for those who are into that. They're way too young and dorky for me but I guess that's appealing to certain DLers.

Felt a little bad for Lubov yesterday after she went to the trouble of getting Canadian citizenship, but I really can't deal with their sappy romantic programs.

I really like Patrick's long program, but I am a sucker for Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah.

It really says a lot about the lack of depth in Canadian skating if Messing is winning medals. When he skated for the US, his best nationals finish was 7th, and he was in the lower half of the field his last 2 years. Maybe he's improved greatly, but for the US he was below Hochstein, etc.

Messing vs Hochstein this year

Hochstein: 217.52 (Nepela), 206.09 (Rostelecom) and 216.44 (Cup of China)

Messing: 248.30 (Autumn Classic), 217.75 (Skate Canada) and 235.80 (NHK)

So yes, in International competitions Messing has scored better. Grent's best is Messing's worst score

Messing has lost to Jason Brown both at Skate Canada and NHK. At NHK he lost also to Rippon. At Autumn Classic he has beaten Ross Miner.

Messing looks like a hobgoblin to me but he does have quite good skating skills and interesting transitions. I think he has definitely improved in the past season or two. Kevin has gotten worse ever since he lost a season due to injury.

Prediction for the finish at PyeongChang: 1. Hanyu 2. Chen 3. Fernandez or Chan

Any update on Hanyu's status?

It's a little worrisome that we haven't really heard much.

I actually think Chen is going to win. I think Hanyu's injury is more severe than we really know. Even if he makes it to Olympic ice, I just can't see him (or anyone) executed a 4-5 quad program after losing months of training.

Uno will pre-rotate his way to the podium.

r86 I'd go with Shoma, Chen, and Hanyu with an outside shot at Fernandez, but that's assuming all 4 are healthy which I believe has happened precisely 0 times over the past year.

r76 Maybe you're right, but this sounds wrong to me. Harding had the triple axel in 91 and Ito had the triple by...89? And had definitely peaked by Albertville. Kristi had no need to worry about them in Lillehammer. She turned pro to make money not out of fear of being left behind. I remember her saying that as a Japanese American, she felt she only had a tight window for sponsorship and marketability. Her turning pro made perfect business sense and she didn't need another medal to be a sensation.

Sarah Hughes on the other hand... she could have bagged 2 more Olympic medals and nobody would remember who she was.

I agree with R89. Kristi retired because there was nothing left for her to accomplish. Had she won the silver in Albertville she would have stuck around for 94 (as posted above that was the plan). But she won Gold. What incentive did she have to stick around and try for another? She won the gold and needed to cash in as quickly as she could. No other American had won gold since 1976... if she was going to cash in that was the time to do it.

I don't agree that she was worried about the triple axels. By 1992 she learned pretty quickly that she could win without it. She won both 91 Worlds and the 92 Olympics without it, competing against athletes that successfully landed it. It was no longer a factor. Midori retired, Tonya hadn't been landing it consistently or successfully in competition in a year... and there was no one else remotely close to landing it (in fact no one was even attempting it until what another decade later)?

So I don't think the fear of where the sport was technically going was even a thought in her mind. And she could certainly see by 93 where she stacked up and she could have reinstated if she wanted another Gold. It was clear to anyone that if she had she would have won easily.

Eric Radford has just spoilered the Olympic team with his latest IG Story. He has taken it down after a few minutes.

It was a group photo in Canada uniforms. It was all the medalists except Nam. So I guess it's the Olympic team

And Daleman has spoilered who the third lady is.

And Piper who the second man is.

They followed Nationals outcome.

Larkyn Austman and Keegan Messing go to PyeongChang

r92 I think Canada made the right decision. While I think it's easier for them then the US (Nam's international performance has been nothing like Adam's), it's great that they went by national's results when they could have gone either younger (for experience) or more consistent than Larkyn and Keegan.

Wish US would do the same, but the precedent has already been set and now if they DIDN'T throw people under the bus it would be suspicious.

Patrick Chan

Keegan Messing

Gabrielle Daleman

Kaetlyn Osmond

Larkyn Austman

Meagan Duhamel/Eric Radford

Julianne Seguin/Charlie Bilodeau

Kirsten Moore-Towers/Michael Marinaro

Tessa Virtue/Scott Moir

Piper Gilles/Paul Poirier

Kaitlyn Weaver/Andrew Poje

R93 Messing has beaten Nguyen at Autumn Classic and at NHK this season. So, yes, Nam didn't stand a chance after finishing third yesterday.

I still can't believe how Chartrand managed to throw away an easy qualification.

4 Continents

Elladj Balde, Nam Nguyen, Kevin Reynolds

Alaine Chartrand, Michelle Long, Alicia Pineault

Lubov Ilyushechkina/Dylan Moscovitch, Sydney Kolodziej/Maxime Deschamps, Camille Ruest/Drew Wolfe

Sarah Arnold/Thomas Williams, Haley Sales/Nikolas Wamsteeker, Carolane Soucisse/Shane Firus

Are Loena and Jorick Hendrickx the first siblings to qualify for the Olympics in Figure Skating not as a tandem (a la the Carruthers or the Shibutanis)

R89 and R90, Kristin was indeed worried about the triple axel. Midori Ito had been doing one since 1989, but not necessarily consistently, then Tonya Harding landed hers at 1991 Nationals. Kristi was trying to train a triple axel for a time. I remember seeing footage of it back in the day.

Kristi just could never land the triple axel consistently in practice, though, so the plan was to have her do triple-triples to compete. Kristi did win the 1991 Worlds without the triple axel, where both Midori and Tonya fell on their attempts, which I think sealed the strategy to do triple-triples. By the 1992 Olympics, Midori was struggling so mightily with the triple axel, she replaced it with a triple lutz combo in the Olympic Short Program but fell, and thus was not in control of her own destiny after the Short back in the old scoring system. In the end, Kristi's strategy worked and she walked away with the Gold.

Tonya landed her 3A at 1991 Worlds. She had other errors but the Axel was even better than Nationals.

WHAT CHANNEL/ NETWORK ARE THESE ON??? THX

r97 I don't think anyone is denying that Kristi was concerned about the 3A, she was pretty honest about thinking she was pretty much guaranteed silver at Albertville but that gold was likely out of her reach unless she had the skate of her life.

What we are disagreeing with is her motivation for leaving and the timeline. She had developed consistent triple triples by 92 (and would continue to skate them through much of her pro-tour career), and by 1992 she knew she didn't need a 3A. It's like Kim Yuna. She had a great triple triple, and even Mao doing a 3A IN COMBINATION wasn't going to mean anything. She had Toronto in the bag.

Kristi would have likely won Lillehammer. It wasn't a guarantee. And she took the money over the likelihood, not out of fear.

Whatever the reason, Kristi is a business more than she is a skater and she made a great business decision.

I'm not sure what the disagreement is here--Kristi had a gold in the bag, but didn't consider the Lillehammer one in the bag, so decided not to risk it, particularly when turning pro was going to be lucrative.

In retrospect, Kristi didn't need a triple axel to win, but that was not at all clear at the time she made her decision. She had no reason to think it wasn't going to go the way men's has--where a quad went from a rarity to a requirement for the international podium.

The decision paid off--she made money from skating and didn't destroy her body trying to endlessly up her athletic content.

Some skaters like to compete more than others. Brian Boitano liked competing and is one of those who came back when pros were allowed into the Olympics.

r101 Ok. Now that there is no disagreement on that front: Patrick Chan - asexual flounder eyed robot or hot-assed former enfant terrible who is probably a freak in bed?

Is Oleksai Belchenko the oldest figure skater to qualify for the Olympics this year? Is the 35-ish year old Chinese pairs skater still skating?

😍😍😍

[quote]She had developed consistent triple triples by 92 (and would continue to skate them through much of her pro-tour career), and by 1992 she knew she didn't need a 3A.

If you consider landing a total of 3 triple lutz-triple toes in competition in an entire career consistent, then I guess Tonya had a consistent triple axel.

When exactly did Kristi. Y. skate 3-3s on the pro tour? Don't remember that either, even early in her pro career.

r104 Well, I had forgotten that Midori had attempted a triple axel triple toe combination, so maybe my memory isn't as great I as I thought it was. I thought Kristi was still doing 3/3 when she did the Chopin piece on the pro tour, but it appears that's not true. I knew she took out the 3/3 in 100% Pure Love and Whata Man (two programs I hated), but I thought she added it back in. Honestly I don't remember. She was still doing a 3L/2T by 2002, which is surprising to me.

Alex is adorable. Timothee and Alex would make a cute couple <3

For a moment I didn't recognize Brian Boitano !

[quote]In retrospect, Kristi didn't need a triple axel to win, but that was not at all clear at the time she made her decision. She had no reason to think it wasn't going to go the way men's has--where a quad went from a rarity to a requirement for the international podium.

She did have a reason to KNOW it wasn't going that way because 1) she won two of the major competitions, Worlds and Olympics even though others landed the triple axel 2) she knew it wasn't going to change that much in two years because a) Midori retired b) Tonya hadn't landed it in almost a year and c) no other woman was even rumored to be attempting it let alone close to being able to land it. In fact no other woman attempted/landed it until 2002.

Further, as it was pointed out above, Kristi knew in 93 what the field was like and she would have won. Everyone knew it. She could have re-instated and had another shot but she didn't want to because again... what would the point be? She had already won. She had already gotten out of the sport what she wanted. So what would the point be?

It's still very clear Brian can still grow hair, why is he no letting it grow? Those hair treatments are obviously giving him results.

Speaking of skaters who jumps improved when they went pro...

Midori's triple axel was amazing here:

There should be a rule of not posting uggos like Alex and Cross Eyed on this thread.

R99- You'll probably have to search on youtube for clips.

They really need to do something about limiting jumps. All of the artistry is being sucked out of these programs when you see men trying to jam 3, 4, 5 quads into a program. It's not much better for the women.

I remember when Kurt Browning did his long program in 1991 and the announcers swooned over a triple salchow-triple loop combination because at the time, it was the most difficult - but it was also the most awkward looking combo. It may have given him technical marks but it did nothing for the program.

If they're going to reward the most difficult jumps and combinations without any rules to them, then don't even bother giving marks for artistry and choreography.

Alex isn't ugly in tht pix--not looking straight either . . .

R102, not asexual, but too self-absorbed for freakdom, IMO.

Grandpa Zhang is still skating.

r110 Why couldn't she do that at the Olympics?

Virtue/Moir changed up parts of their free skate--but it's still the overdone Moulin Rouge. If you're going to do dying prostitute/courtesans, there are plenty of operas with that theme that have better music--Traviata, Iris, Manon, La Boheme (sorta). Also, Tessa's dress could actually, dare I say it, use some sequins or sparkles or something. Now that Ashley's gone off in a huff, maybe she could send one of her outfits to Tessa.

R114 her triple axel at the Olympics was still pretty great, especially since she threw it in at the end of her program.

r115 Maybe Tess could do yellow face and they could change the program to Miss Saigon.

[quote] Are Loena and Jorick Hendrickx the first siblings to qualify for the Olympics in Figure Skating not as a tandem (a la the Carruthers or the Shibutanis)

In Vancouver there were the Reeds siblings skating for Japan and their sister skating for Georgia.

[quote] Is Oleksai Belchenko the oldest figure skater to qualify for the Olympics this year? Is the 35-ish year old Chinese pairs skater still skating?

He will be the oldest in man single.

The Chinese pair guy (Zhang) is still skating. He has changed girl last year. He is into his third partner. This new partnership looks better as previous girl (Cheng Peng) always looked scared to death that he was going to eat her alive. The fact she can't land a SBS jump even to save her life didn't help her. Now she has been switched to Yang Jin (who was skating with the girl now assigned to Zhang) and she looks more relaxed (she still can't land jumps but he sometimes joins her in splats and he always looks happy)

Officially Zhang was born in 1984. Some say he's older because China cheated his papers to keep in Juniors for more time.

Aliona Savchenko is also still there (and aiming for Gold). She was also born in 1984

Oldest Lady will be Kostner (1987)

Oldest ice dancer? I think the Turkish guy and Luca Lanotte. Both are from 1985 class. Oldest female ice dancer is probably Anna Cappellini (1987)

R98, I had forgotten Tonya landed her 3A at the 1991 Worlds. For some reason I've always thought she missed it, so I went back and watched her program on YouTube. She landed an even better 3A at 1991 Worlds than she did at 1991 Nationals. But she only landed four triples in her 1991 Worlds free skate and popped two other triples. Kristi landed six triples, including a sort-of triple-triple (flip, toe but there was a turn on the ice between the jumps--they weren't back-to-back), as well as two triple lutzes. Kristi really did skate the best program that night.

It's funny because just the year before, Kristi was considered the jumping bean while Jill Trenary, the 1990 US and World Champion, was considered the artist/swan. 1990 was the last year figures were done. Midori Ito won the short and long programs that year at Worlds, but she had made a big mistake in figures that set her too far back to win. Same for Kristi, who was never great at figures. The next year, they did away with figures, Trenary wisely retired knowing her time in the sport was over, and suddenly Kristi was more the swan/artist against the jumping beans of Ito and Harding. Such a huge shift in just one year.

To quote a DL meme, Jill Ternary had BDF. But yes, Kristi has more pairs national championships than she does singles national championships, because Jill and Tanya beat her for 3 years until she finally peaked right before the Olympics.

It was smart of her not to peak early, something most skaters never learn.

[quote]because Jill and Tanya beat her for 3 years until she finally peaked right before the Olympics.

Well the only reason Tonya beat her for that title is because she landed that triple axel. Otherwise, Kristi had that competition in the bag. They were ready to hand it to her.

Speaking of figures. I've been meaning to ask. I know that Midori and Kristi were both awful at figures.

How were Tonya and Nancy at them?

The fact that Kristi was considered the athlete one year and then the artist the next year is precisely why she was the perfect champion (in the eyes of the ISU). She was the balance of them both.

Over in one of the Tonya threads someone tried to make an argument that Kristi benefited from better scores because she wasn't being judged off the ice like Tonya. I disagree with that. Kristi was being rewarded (and I think fairly) for being the complete package on the ice.

R122--Nancy wasn't very good at figures. Tony wasn't too bad. She placed 4th in figures in the 1989 US Championships whereas Kerrigan was 7th in figures.

R123--Completely agree with you about Kristi being more the complete package. That's why she won in Albertville. Harding and Ito could jump, but Ito in particular just never really clicked in the artistry department. But Ito's jumps could be otherworldly, which I think swayed the judges more than once. It was hard not to marvel at Ito's athletic ability.

[quote]Harding and Ito could jump, but Ito in particular just never really clicked in the artistry department. But Ito's jumps could be otherworldly, which I think swayed the judges more than once. It was hard not to marvel at Ito's athletic ability.

I would actually disagree with that. I think Ito's artistry was actually fine. Especially if you look back now on her Albertville prorgrams (particularly her free skate). I think you compare that with some of what we see now and she's perfectly fine. Harding on the other hand... yikes. I've commented in another thread about how she has all these weird ticks that she thinks were artistic. The weird splayed fingers with the fake nails... the arm pumps... the head rolls... awful.

And speaking of Midori's jumps. I was watching some clips the other day and they slowed down several of her jumps and I was amazed because she is literally at the height of the boards. I was shocked. I never realized she was getting that high up in the air.

r125. I think Ito had great taste, but perhaps not great fluid movement. I liked her Albertville free skate, and she didn't seem to stay long on the pro tour (or wasn't as big of a draw as Kristi, Scott, Katarina and others), but I really liked her pro programs as well. They were very elegant and restrained (I'm thinking of the rose routine she did) where other people would be gaudy and gauche. But she just didn't move like one imagines a graceful figure skater to move. It was really the opposite of Michelle Kwan, who I think actually lacked for personal artistry, but she moved so beautifully and could pay for top notch choreography and it really papered over the... deadness? of her skating.

I was so happy when Kristi won gold, and I'm still happy for Kristi, but looking back on it I wish Kristi had won in 94 and Ito had won in 92. Ito really did mean a lot to the sport and she's already such a footnote. I was so happy for her when she got to be involved in the torch lighting in Nagano. It was a well deserved capstone to her career.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Ito, R125. She always came across as, "Look, I'm trying to be artistic." It wasn't organic and looked very forced. Agree with you about Tonya, though, with the head rolls especially.

As for Ito's jumps, I remember back in the day being awed by the height she got. I thought Ito was going to revolutionize women's skating with the triple axel becoming a requirement, but instead we got the Kerrigan-Baiul era and Michelle Kwan era, where even Kristi's triple lutz-triple toe combo was rarely attempted.

It's a good thing Kristi didn't stick around for the '94 Olympics. Getting your knee capped isn't a whole lot of fun.

I always thought the narrative sold in the early 90s, that Kristi was some great artistic skater, to be a load of bull.

She was a rather safe, paint-by-numbers type of skater. Very robotic and consistent, did everything her coach and choreographer laid out for her, but I never felt she actually ever connected with her programs or music. Watching Kristi was like watching someone go through a check-list of elements, all done proficiently, but done simply because she was told to do so, not because she was moved to do so. When I think of great artistic skaters, they have this ability (no matter how rehearsed they are) to lose themselves (or at least [italic]appear[/italic] to lose themselves) in the performance and the music, like each movement and expression is born out of genuine emotion and necessity to what the music is communicating. This ability I saw in Michelle Kwan, Jeremy Abbott, Torvill and Dean, etc...skaters that I would consider "artistic" skaters.

I never got that from Kristi. She was way too guarded to ever let herself go in a performance, and played every aspect of her amateur career safely.

In many ways, I would argue that Midori was on par with her artistically, if not better. I certainly found her more entertaining to watch, that's for sure. She wasn't as "graceful" in the conventional sense, but boy did she come alive and explode when she was on. Watch any of her memorable performances, and you can see the pure joy on her face and how dynamically she moved with the music. She had deep edges, speed, power and, unlike Harding, amazing musicality, which is often overlooked.

Kristi benefitted a lot from the politics of the times too. She packaged herself exactly how the judges thought a female skater should be at the time--petite, dainty, graceful and, above all, overtly feminine. It was easy for her team to contrast this image against the powerful, stout Ito and her more "butch"-like skating. Midori wasn't overtly feminine, but that didn't make her skating any less artistic, but nevertheless Kristi and her team definitely made sure to play up this contrast all the way up to the games.

Kristi was the "artist" and Midori was the "athlete"...which was just coded language for feminine and masculine. In those days, for female skaters, femininity was de-facto seen as more artistic...which I don't agree with. I think being feminine doesn't make a skater more or less artistic, but that's how artistic impression was perceived back then.

When Midori was on her game, she was an undeniable force that couldn't be denied, and I think if she had skated cleanly, would've easily beaten Kristi. But Midori was unfortunately a head case and, by 1992, totally bought into the artist/athlete narrative and tried to skate to pretty music that did nothing to highlight her strengths--which ultimately was the end of her in my opinion.

But yeah, I think Kristi's supposed "artistry" was largely manufactured simply because she wore the veneer of it very well. That, along with consistency, was enough for her to win.

I agree with much of what you wrote, R129. For me, Kristi became a much more artistic skater after she turned pro. This is one of my favorite performances of hers...

Euros start on Wednesday.

Technical panel for Ice Dance is

Halina Gordon Poltorak from Poland as Technical Controller

Denis Samokhin from Russia as Technical Specialist

Francesca Fermi from Italy as Assistant Technical Specialist

I guess Samokhin and Fermi will cancel each other in terms of B/S, C/L and S/B with HGP being the tiebreaker. HGP is the chairwoman of ISU Technical Committee for Ice Dance. So in a way ISU will get the decisive vote in the way levels are called between teams 2-3-4.

I suppose P/C are too in front this year for Russia and Italy doing any deals to push B/S and C/L ahead of them in TES like last year

r130 I miss the old footwork sequences. Sure they weren't 'technically difficult' but they really did allow for a skater to connect to the music. You see none of that anymore. Other than Jason Brown's Riverdance step sequence when was the last time a non jump/spin made any sort of lasting memory? Before, you would have all sorts of step sequence and connecting moves that people would gush over from Philippe Candeloro's blade forward hops to Scott Hamilton's sabre dance step sequence to Michelle Kwan's falling leaf stag jump. But since those get you no points, they've disappeared.

I know this board hates on Shoma, but his hands free cantilever spread eagle is maybe the only memorable move post Sochi (I realize he didn't invent the move, but its weird that wikipedia calls out Ilia Klimkin as recently popularizing the cantilever and not Shoma). In general I think Shoma's spins are laughably bad, but I think he has the best connective choreography today. That being said, I haven't seen his 2018 programs yet.

Ito was so bad in the artistic department

The Technical Specialist for Pairs at the European Championships is Peter Cain, father of Ashley Cain.

I am always a bit uncomfortable with active coaches being in Tech Panels when their skaters aren't there. Cain/LeDuc spent part of the summer training with Nina Mozer. And Mozer has her top team here (basically all Russian pairs). The Assistant Technical Specialist is the former Uzbec pair skater Artem Knyazev

R132, I would add Yagudin's 'Winter' step sequence. My favorite ever.

[quote] . That being said, I haven't seen his 2018 programs yet.

His FP is here. Yes, he's recycling Turandot music from two seasons ago. FP is Vivaldi's Winter

While I can understand a lot of the points made above about Kristi, I will say that there is more to artistry than just the choreography or how the skater emotes or as Scott Hamilton likes to screech about, "Feels every note of their music." Artistry includes how well a skater holds their positions, grace/elegance (subjective obviously), flow between jumps, movement etc. Kristi had that. Especially considering her competition. Who else in the 91-92 season could even be remotely considered artistic aside from Kerrigan?

And what Kristi had over Kerrigan was that while Kristi didn't emote the joy that say Midori did when she skated (to music that suited her), she didn't skate like it was a job she hated (like Kerrigan).

I think I preferred Yamaguchi over to Trenary. Jill had one particular program, I think it was in 90? That I thought was horrendous and I felt embarrassed for her.

Kristi wouldn't survive COP today because every single triple had a 1/4 turn cheat or more. She was Ashley Wagner with more consistency and less charisma, if that's possible.

r135 I liked Yagudin's skating, but that man was clearly crazy. I remember when he claimed that showing up for practice with wet hair lead to him getting the flu and flaming out and losing to Plushenko. Sure... "wet hair" caused you to get sick. He also always wore black gloves even when skating with short sleeves. Did he have self-image issues with his hands? Then his car was stolen with his medal inside in a story that equally makes no sense. It's funny to me that Yagudin had such a great career, and yet he's basically a reality tv star also ran in Russia while Plushenko, is treated like a national icon. When I was living in Russia, there would be billboards with Plushenko on them around Moscow meanwhile Yagudin had to publish his "autobiography" in Japan and star in a series of low-grade ice skating tv shows.

R138...she also flutzed, but that was par for the course in those days. Most women didn't have a pure lutz. But you know who did? Yep, Midori and Tonya. Deep outside edges on those take-offs, always.

What's everyone's issue with Michelle Kwan? I know she has dangerously rabid fans, and I've heard about PsychoDad, but she seems to get a lot of side-eye for such a successful skater. Is everyone still pissed about her bombing at 2 Olympics.

r141 I don't think she gets side eye at all. In fact, her divorce wasn't 'big news' precisely because most people sort of blandly respect her and have moved on.

I think Michelle is the reason the sport isn't as technically as advanced as it should be. Because she wasn't doing difficult triples (she barely ever did a triple-triple) and was winning all over the place, everyone else figured why should they?

I also don't think she deserved to win her first World title.

R135, funny you should post that, the Olympic channel was replaying a bunch of free skates a few weeks ago and I saw his man in the iron mask from SLC...I was wowed by the step sequence in a way that I haven't been by some newer programs. He really had IT.

[quote]We'll have to agree to disagree about Ito, [R125]. She always came across as, "Look, I'm trying to be artistic." It wasn't organic and looked very forced.

I'm with you, R127. To me, her 1992 free was absolutely "Look, I'm trying to be artistic," and demonstrated that her team absolutely did NOT understand that her only chance to come off as artistic was to complement her strong, energetic jumping with strong, energetic music and choreography. Her 1992 short worked in that way; in fact, I thought her short was a perfect vehicle for her to be "artistic" and maintain strength. Her 1992 free, on the other hand, was plodding and brooding and completely antithetical to her strengths.

Incidentally, Scott Hamilton was all, "Tonya should've been marked higher than Midori since she went for the triple axel." You'd think he wasn't an actual skater since apparently all he was paying attention to was the combo jump. Every other spin and jump in Midori's short was superb. Tonya (and arguably even Midori) should've been behind Yuka Sato, who should've finished top 5 in the short.

[quote]I also don't think she deserved to win her first World title.

Agree, R143. In my opinion, Chen Lu's 1996 Worlds Free is the best ladies LP ever. I don't care if the spins were not A+. That program is a masterpiece.

[quote]Incidentally, Scott Hamilton was all, "Tonya should've been marked higher than Midori since she went for the triple axel." You'd think he wasn't an actual skater since apparently all he was paying attention to was the combo jump.

Yeah that was ridiculous because Tonya completely MISSED the combination or rather, didn't even bother. Midori may have fallen on the lutz but she got up and completed the required combo. So in what world did Tonya deserve to be placed higher than Midori?

Midori Ito was a little troll. Short, squat with a massive head and bowed legs like a chimp. That latter feature, however, helped her with her jumps.

[quote]Chen Lu's 1996 Worlds Free is the best ladies LP ever. I don't care if the spins were not A+. That program is a masterpiece.

Agree. It was exquisite.

They gave it to Kwan solely because she went from being a 10 year old to looking 16 in one year.

Loved Michelle, but hated her dad.

Old-school Chinese tiger dad who cost her Olympic gold, twice.

In 97, he forced her to wear and endorse fucked up skates from a company he made a business deal with (behind Frank's back), which threw off the timing of her jumps, which then led to her bombing that season and allowing Tara Lipinski to swoop in and win everything, positioning herself as a viable candidate for Olympic gold in the judges eyes.

Then in 98, she suffered a stress fracture in her toe because of skating in those fucked up skates all last season, which sets her back leading to games. Then at the Olympics, he fills her head with a bunch of undue pressure about not letting down the country, and told her to skate safe and clean, and she'd definitely win. She did what he said, and she lost.

Then in 2002, he coerces her to dump Frank right before the Olympics because of clashes between them over what Michelle needed to do to effectively prepare for the games. As a results, she shows up to the Olympics unprepared, using her old SP, a generic, forgettable FP by Sarah Kawahara, and her daddy acting as her coach in the kiss-and-cry.

And, of course, she bombs and loses gold again.

You can tell Danny Kwan was always a thorn in Frank's side, overstepping his role and making coaching decisions for Michelle that Frank totally disagreed with.

And Michelle, being the obedient daughter she was, never questioned her father. What papa Kwan wanted, he got. No challenging the patriarch.

[quote]And Michelle, being the obedient daughter she was, never questioned her father.

I remember a story that Frank told about the 98 Olympics. After Tara skated (and won) her father was apparently causing an uproar and screaming about how Michelle was cheated. Frank says that Michelle didn't know what to think and looked over to him to confirm what her father was saying. He told her no, her father was wrong. Tara deserved the win. Apparently after she got the word from Frank, she accepted it. So part of Michelle knew Frank knew best.

Will Chen Lu and Michelle Kwan be competing in the North Korea Olympics? I love them both and just boo to that slutty Slutkya. How much longer will Russian women dominate skating? One thing for sure is Patrick Chen is your next Olympic Gold medalist. He will make the Korean community very proud.

[quote]He told her no, her father was wrong. Tara deserved the win. Apparently after she got the word from Frank, she accepted it. So part of Michelle knew Frank knew best.

Michelle v Tara falls into the same category as Oksana v Nancy to me. One clearly had superior technical content, but the question is whether the other's artistry and presentation warranted a win nonetheless. They went w/ the artist in 1994 and the technician in 1998. I think Michelle had every right to be as pissy as Nancy.

R152 I actually think that in 94 and 98 the judges made the same call. They gave it to the skaters who skated like they enjoyed it and had some passion. Kerrigan always skated like a robot and Michelle in 98 skated that free program with absolutely no emotion or joy.

R139, several hardcore skatefans told me several years ago that Yags was rubbing cocks with Rudy Galindo while on tour. Things got so bad that Brian Boitano was said to have taken Rudy aside to tell him to "leave the kid alone". Yags was underage at the time. Somehow Alexei Urmanov got wind of or witnessed some mano y mano affection between the two of them and tattled to the Russian Federation, who is even more homophobic than the USFSA. They were not pleased and Yags was chewed out when he returned to Russia after the tour. It may or may not have had something to do with Yags always finishing second to Plushy at the Russian Nationals. And when Rudi revealed his HIV+ status, several skaters, male and female, on the COI tour were worried because if they didn't sleep with Rudi, they slept with Yags, including Nicole Bobek. Fortunately, all turned out well. So I am thinking that Yags has to at least be bisexual.

Ah, I also loved Chen Lu's 1996 free skate at Worlds. It was genuinely exquisite. I go back and forth on who should have won. Michelle also skated a great program. She missed the triple toe-tripple toe combo, but she threw the triple toe in at the end, something that looked like a bold move but one that I think was planned if she missed the triple-triple. That's one that I personally find too close to call.

R149, interesting information about Danny Kwan. I didn't realize all that happened. I think Michelle skated magically to Lyra Angelica at 1998 Nationals but seemed restrained in Nagano. I didn't know about her father telling her to play it safe. Frank would never have told her that. In fact, I think Frank told her to attack the free skate at Nationals to grab her title back from Tara, which Michelle did. Still one of my favorite long programs/free skates to watch. It's kind of shocking that Frank told Michelle that Tara deserved the win.

In fairness to Danny Kwan, all the skating commentators were also talking about how Michelle just had to skate clean and she'd be handed the gold. Maybe he just listened to the "expert" chatter too much? I think the judges were miffed that the press was saying that as well and went out of their way to be fair to Tara. I still prefer Michelle's skate to Tara's, but I can't complain about the result. It was close enough where different judging panels may have gone in different ways. But I think Michelle had the better overall program (spins, jumps, choreography, musicality) while Tara won on jumping and the energy with which she skated.

As for Kerrigan and Baiul, Baiul's program was sloppy at the end and it marred the artistry. Plus Baiul was the queen of the two-footed landing. I still think Nancy should have won, but meh, it was what it was. There have been worse results (Sale/Pelletier in 2002).

Lastly, Yagudin's Winter SP from 2002 is my favorite short ever. Love it!

[quote]several hardcore skatefans told me several years ago that Yags was rubbing cocks with Rudy Galindo while on tour.

What year was this?

Good for Galindo for pulling a hot piece of ass like Yagudin.

The Kwan/Chen Lu showdown was probably the closes Ladies final I can ever remember. Total toss-up. I think that if the skating order had been reversed and Lu skated last, she may have won.

I never warmed to Tara's skating, but I do think in that particular competition, she deserved her Olympic gold.

Speaking of Chen Lu... I find it incredibly funny/odd that her LP from Nagano isn't available. There's only like one upload of it and it's randomly been hit with a copyright claim so the music has been muted.

Thanks for posting Chen Lu's World's LP, r148. It is indeed an exquisite program and I had forgotten how fast she could skate. Just two nitpicks: I wish she could have held the spiral a little longer, and the position of her layback spin wasn't the greatest. But that's just two minor nitpicks for a superb performance.

Strangely they are not delating Peng/Jin's current FS that is skated on Butterfly Lovers like Lu Chen 1998 LP. I guess no-one search for videos of P/J and so went unnoticed

Butterfly Lovers just seems like such a random/weird track to stamp a copyright claim on.

I think the basic difference between Michelle and Tara was that Michelle skated not to lose while Tara skated to win. All other things being roughly equal, judges tend to favor the latter over the former.

Michelle is one the greatest and most beautiful skaters of all time. Tara sits next to that queer who never won anything.

[quote]One clearly had superior technical content, but the question is whether the other's artistry and presentation warranted a win nonetheless. They went w/ the artist in 1994 and the technician in 1998.

I honestly believe that if Tara were not the reigning World Champion coming in to those Olympics, she would've won silver that night, even if everything else played out the same.

Reputation and status meant a lot in skating back then. It was often a benchmark for the presentation scores. Being a World champion carried a lot of weight and perceived maturity, and thus, usually came higher presentation marks.

I don't care what anyone says about Tara's energy that night, she looked and skated like a junior skater, but because she was World Champion, the judges perceived her presentation to be a lot more mature than it was. She got 5.9s and 5.8s in Nagano, which was absurd. Maybe a few 5.8s, but no way should that juvenile program gotten anywhere close to a 5.9.

If you look back at 1997, before Michelle imploded, Tara was getting 5.4-5.7 for presentation all season. However, when Michelle bombed at Nationals, the judges had no other choice but to crown Tara national champion. After Tara defeated Michelle, suddenly her presentation marks shot up to 5.7-5.8, seemingly overnight.

But that's how much Tara beating Michelle (then the World Champion) set into motion a domino effect that drastically shifted the judges perception of Tara's presentation marks, which by the Olympics, were almost on par with Michelle's, which is just ludicrous.

So, in essence, Michelle lost Olympic gold in 1997 when she lost the world title to Tara.

I don't think Tara would've gotten 5.8-5.9s for that skate in Nagano for presentation if Michelle had been the reigning World Champion. She would've been rewarded for her technical content, but I think the judges would've been much more objective about her presentation mark (5.6-5.8) without that title and the perceived maturity that came with it.

And this chain of events could've all been avoided if stupid Danny Kwan wasn't a greedy bastard and insisted that Michelle skate in boots that were hurting her feet and messing up her jumping.

[quote]I don't care what anyone says about Tara's energy that night, she looked and skated like a junior skater, but because she was World Champion, the judges perceived her presentation to be a lot more mature than it was. She got 5.9s and 5.8s in Nagano, which was absurd. Maybe a few 5.8s, but no way should that juvenile program gotten anywhere close to a 5.9.

I agree. I think Tara winning is justifiable, but I personally would've given it to Michelle, especially b/c the presentation mark was supposed to be the tiebreaker in the LP.

Yagudin winning in 2002 was great to see. I hate Plushenko and don't think much of his skating. He's athletic and was a good jumper, but especially after 2002, he never had anything approaching real choreography. He preened and posed, flailed his body around the rink, and jumped high. Yagudin felt the music and it translated into his skating. As I wrote above, I think Yagudin's Winter SP was the best ever. Love it to this day.

Plushenko was bitterly angry about losing to Yagudin in 2002, an anger that was eclipsed when Evan Lysachek bested him in 2010, which I think was the right call. Plushenko hit a quad, although it was a little sketchy on the landing. But the rest of his program sucked and he made mistakes on 3-4 jumps that dropped his GOE. Plush Plushenko front-loaded his program while Evan got more bonus for doing jumps in the second half. I laughed when Plushenko stalked off after realizing he got silver. One of my favorite memories of him--being a sore loser.

It was might have been better for US Skating that Tara won, considering Michelle likely would have retired if she'd gotten gold.

Which leads to the question... would Tara have continued to 2002 if she had gotten the silver? Or would she have even lasted until 2002.

Her hip wouldn't have held out for 2002, R169. It didn't even hold out until 99.

Tara couldn't have gone on to 2002 since her hip was shot.

Didn't Tara not even skate Worlds right after the Olympics. She pretty much retired ASAP as I recall.

Didn't know all about Danny Kwan and the boots--do remember Kwan not having a real coach at her second Olympics and, boy, did she (and everyone else) implode there.

Sarah Hughes says thank you.

R172 I remember seeing interview of Kwan saying there wasn't a need for a coach. That after you've spent years on the ice you already know what you need to do... you just need someone there to motivate you, hence Danny.

Great logic, Michelle! Love it!

r167 Plushenko didn't just front-load is program, he basically only skated half a program. If I recall, he didn't have a single jump in the second half of his 2010 free skate, and it looked and felt ridiculous. Yagudin really was a wonderful skater, but he was a strange head case who seemed to need constant guidance. He always felt like the true successor to Ilia Kulik... he was handsome in the same way and really extended on the ice and breathed into every aspect of his program where Plushenko felt like he would be equally comfortable in a jumping competition or scaring goats off bridges, but never made a good claim for skating royalty.

And yet - Plushenko seems to have gotten the last laugh. He was (as of two or three years ago) still popular in Russia and had a brief (albeit rather unflattering) political career. I bet he's still connected to all the right people though.

r174 Plushenko seems to have a more Russian attitude about life so it's no wonder he was more popular. Kinda like i'll do what I want and you're going to give me what I want type attitude. He came across as a real douchebag.

R174, Plushenko did two triple jumps in the second half of his program and that was it. IIRC, he even had a scratchy landing on one of them. I still can't believe, though, that the Russians think of Plushenko as more skating royalty. Yagudin represented them much better. Oh well, Russians are crazy and I'll never understand them.

2 more recycles identified at Euros practices:

-Lecavelier is back at Grease for the FS

-Coomes/Buckland dropped FS and went back to the Muse one (2014/15 and 2015/16) but at least with a new choreography (by Christopher Dean)

In terms of Olympic selections, Euros will decide:

- second French ice dance team

- French lady

- Finnish lady

- Swedish lady (assuming Swedish Olympic Committee will let her go in the end, whoever she will be. Same issue for Majorov)

- Hungarian lady

It says a lot about the current state of Figure Skating (much like gymnastics) where the more interesting/in-depth discussions go back to the 90's.

[quote]In terms of Olympic selections, Euros will decide:- French lady

Really? I have a program to Moulin Rouge. Think I could skate for France?

Ashley today

I think all too often we use Instagram as a platform to show a perfectly curated life, and we don’t make enough space for the real moments in our lives. A couple of days ago, my Olympic dreams were crushed in the most public way possible. I was heartbroken, and my feelings were ripped apart by people who knew nothing about me or my journey. My life course changed dramatically in a matter of minutes. I don’t think people feel comfortable enough saying they aren’t okay, and right now I am not okay. But also, someday, hopefully soon, I’ll be able to make myself be okay! Life knocks you down in a surprising number of ways, and it’s about finding a way to readjust your course and make yourself feel happy and content when you’re ready. So I guess, this more than anything else, is a reminder to anyone feeling down or lost, that things will be okay, you just need to start looking for your own way to make things better ❤️

Oh Ashley, STFU. Nothing was taken from you. You lost because you didn't do the work. And stop acting like you're a special snowflake. You want to talk about someone who actually had their Olympics taken from them? Go talk to Mirai... who handled herself way better than you do.

And did you forget you HAD your Olympic dream? You know, when you unfairly got placed back in 2014?

r180 I don't dislike Ashley as much as others, but can we agree that photo is terrifying?

Finland: Viveca LINDFORS vs Emmi PELTONEN

Sweden: Matilda ALGOTSSON vs Anita ÖSTLUND

Hungary: tFruzsina MEDGYESI vs Ivett TOTH

France: Laurine LECAVELIER vs Mae Berenice MEITE

France dance: Marie-Jade LAURIAULT / Romain LE GAC vs tAngelique ABACHKINA / Louis THAURON

It probably took her hours to pose for it, R182.

Did Mirai really deserve to go to the Olympics over Ashley in 2014? I doubt many of you that are complaining really remember the circumstances in 2014

God, she's fugly. And someone should tell her that sometimes your feelings just need to be yours and yours alone.

R185 in my opinion she did. I don't buy into the whole taking someone who did better over the season but fucked up when it counted scenario. I think you're better off taking a skater who has their trajectory going up rather than someone who has exerted everything all season and is on their way down.

I personally don't think that the selection process should be used unless it's for an athlete who is injured and can't compete. That's obviously just my opinion in it.

r185 Of course people here remember the circumstances in 2014. People here can remember Caryn Kadavy's figures performances from National Championships in the 80s.

I think Ashley vs Mirai in 2014 was a fair debate, but people who say Mirai had a crap season and only had one good performance don't know what they're talking about. She won bronze at Rostelecom that year. It was the first time I saw her long that season, and I quite liked it.

That cracked me up, R188.

1999-2000 r156.

Re: Tara winning OGM because she won Worlds the year previous; the same reason DRUNKSANA won over Nancy. Nancy was 1st going into the LP at worlds in Prague 1993. Her freeskate had a coat hanger dangling from it, so shitty it was. The judges assumed that she'd bend under the pressure.

R191 is correct. This performance is what really lost her the gold.

R191 if it was in 99-2000 wouldn't he have been of age? He would have been 19?

So Ashley really thought she was going to be handed that Olympic spot on a platter no matter how she skated. I, I, I, me, me, me...yeah, I'm not feeling more sympathetic after reading that narcissistic drivel.

No R193, that is when I found OUT....I misunderstood you. He was underaged at the time.

BTW, that LP of Nancy's is painful to watch. Ironically, her hair and makeup were flawless.

Are top 3 Teams going to be: 1. Independent Athletes from Russia, 2. Canada, 3. US in that order? Does anybody else have an inside or outside shot at a team medal?

I get allowing Russia to compete as individuals, but I think they actually should be disqualified from the team competition. Does anybody think that Plushenko was clean last Olympics? Skating isn't even a sport that you should need drugs, but after it leaked that Adelina had been under serious investigation (albeit charges dropped and she was never officially named) I think everybody's thoughts turned to Plushenko.

[quote]I remember seeing interview of Kwan saying there wasn't a need for a coach. That after you've spent years on the ice you already know what you need to do... you just need someone there to motivate you, hence Danny.

Poor Michelle had to bend over backwards that season with the press to not only explain Danny's reckless decisions, but make them seem like they were her own choices. I don't buy for a second that it was Michelle's own decision to leave Frank, especially in an Olympic year and after finishing the previous season so strongly with him.

It made absolutely no sense whatsoever for them to part ways at that particular time.

Something must've clashed between Danny and Frank. Maybe it was over money, or difference of opinion regarding training--who knows? But whatever it was, it was enough for Danny to put an end to Frank's coaching relationship with Michelle. What's worse, is that I think Danny instructed Michelle to tell Frank and act like this was her own decision, because Frank seemed floored by it. But he probably knew, deep down, it was Danny's doing.

Michelle, even at age 21, couldn't stand up to her father.

That PR story the media loves to tell, about Michelle taking her senior's level test at 12 behind Frank's back, was never Michelle's decision. Are you kidding me? This was a girl who was conditioned early on to listen to authority and do what she was told, whether by Frank or her dad.

That was all Danny's doing. He thought she was ready to be a senior, despite Frank's differing opinion, and so he forced Michelle to take the test when Frank was away on a business trip, and then pretended like it was Michelle who lied to him so she could take the test.

Only in that case Danny had to be sneaky when he would override Frank's decisions, because at that time, the Kwans needed Frank a lot more than he needed them. Michelle was a nobody at that time, and they needed Frank to make Michelle a champion.

But once she became a champion, with fame and money, Danny had the power and, sure enough, he yanked Michelle away from Frank so fast when he felt his authority was finally challenged.

R196 - I honestly can't see Canada getting a silver medal in the team event. The only ones who can put a decent skate together is Virtue/Moir and that's because they don't have to do any jumps. The problem with Canadian skaters throughout history is that none of them have ever had that nerve of steel/killer instinct that you need for the Olympics. The two best chances Canada ever had for gold were Orser and Browning and they both crumbled.

The only Canadian who outdid expectations at the Olympics was Liz Manley when she won the silver.

Actually, the real head case for Canada was always Josee Chouinard. She could do perfect practices, perfect triples including being able to land a triple axel---but once she got into competition, she turned into Anna Pogorilaya.

[quote]Josee Chouinard. She could do perfect practices, perfect triples including being able to land a triple axel--

Uh say what? Seriously? I have never once heard any report of her being able to do a triple axel???

R199- My mistake. I misread that - it should be "triple Axel attempts". But apparently she was doing all these great practices, landing everything - but once she had to actually skate in competition, it all fell apart.

r198 Joannie Rochette also far outdid expectations in Vancouver (she had hometown advantage and a lot of public goodwill on her side though, so would she have won bronze with a different scoring panel? I don't know). Jeff Buttle at least met expectations, and Elvis Stojko... I hate giving him credit for anything, but nerves were definitely not his problem.

Orser definitely let nerves get the best of him, and Kurt Browning - honestly I don't remember anything about him other than that stupid pro routine he did with the hat for like 7 consecutive years.

r198 And Toller Cranston was before my time, but wasn't he one of those who (like Orser) just had appalling figures but actually skated well? I never heard anything about his nerves.

The one thing I remember about Kurt Browning was how the US media built up Bowman to be the star of the Paris worlds in 1989 and they ignored Browning. Browning goes in and nearly nails both programs and Bowman can't match his technical content and his "Bowman the Showman" goes flat. You could hear Bowman ask Frank Carroll in the kiss and cry "what did Kurt do?" Well, he outskated you, that's all.

That's true about Elvis- he didn't have a problem with nerves; his problem was a total lack of any kind of artistry. He would try waving his arms around in a stilted way and that was about it as far as choreography went.

Unfortunately, R203, that was one of the few times I saw Kurt Browning nail anything in competition. He always fell apart at the Olympics. And yeah, the hat thing got old after awhile.

Granted, Kurt Browning fell apart at both Olympics he skated ('92 and '94), but he was four time World Champion. Browning was no slouch. During his reign from '89-'91, the judges were itching to give it to Viktor Petrenko but Petrenko always made some silly mistake. Petrenko did the same in the Olympic long program, but there was no way the judges were going to give it to Paul Wylie who was in second. I still think Wylie should have won the gold because his artistry far outshone Petrenko's, who was skating the same recycled program to the same music for three straight years.

Browning was a great skater. It's one of the biggest surprises ever in skating that he walked away from two Olympics with zero medals. Michelle Kwan never lived up to her potential at the Olympics, but at least she has two Olympic medals to show for her efforts.

Ironically, R198, I think Liz Manley should have won the gold. The judges were too busy propping up Witt and her "artistry" when Manley skated the best short and long. IIRC, the judges even gave Witt higher technical marks despite Manley having the more difficult technical content. Ah, figure skating judging--the gift that keeps one bitching!

Why do these threads keep getting greyed out? lol. I find it hilarious.

[quote] Joannie Rochette also far outdid expectations in Vancouver (she had hometown advantage and a lot of public goodwill on her side though, so would she have won bronze with a different scoring panel? I don't know). J

I don't even remember her skate. Is the consensus that she should have won over Mirai?

Men Short Program tomorrow at Euros in Moscow is never ending

First skater (somebody called Nicky Obreykov from Bulgaria. SP PB 56.82) starts at 11:45 AM local time

Last group starts at 16:45 PM. Last skater (Jorik Hendrickx) is scheduled at 17:16

Rochette is like the Canadian version of Sarah Hughes - bland and utterly forgettable.

yeah Mirai was 6th is the SP and 5th in the free, overall 12 points down from Rochette. Rochette was overscored on components but there was no way Mirai could have closed the gap.

German Olympic Committee approved the already selected skating team for Pyeongchang

Slogan is "Remember our face"

And in the promo pic they all look straight out of the criminal register

R206- The thing about Browning was that he rarely skated clean in competition - I think one of his few clean programs was when he won gold in 1991, but that was also his most boring program IMO. But he really knew how to sell his programs. He got a perfect 6 for presentation with his Casablanca program in 1993 and there was no way Mark Mitchell was going to beat that.

"Will you people who don't know anything about me stop ripping my life apart? It was my turn again, dammit!"

Virtue and Moir will be Canada's flab bearers at Olympic Opening Ceremony

r215 Moir may have faults but flab is not one of them.

r207 World Bronze medalist Holly Cook has an army of Mormon mommy bloggers who try to shut down any and all discussion praising that scene stealing bitch Kristi Yamaguchi just because she has an Olympic gold. It was only a matter of time before they struck here. Nevertheless, we shall persist.

Ross is alive

"I just wanted to say thank you for the tremendous outpouring of support I've received. I'm disappointed with the things I couldn't control, but I am INCREDIBLY proud of how I performed under pressure. No matter what, the happiness and accomplishment I felt in the moment this picture was taken will never leave my heart. Two clean skates, two standing ovations at US championships in an Olympic year. Getting the silver medal was amazing, but damn this moment felt gold."

[quote]Holly Cook

Who?

r219 Agreed gurl. Us Olympic medalists, America's sweethearts need to stick together

[quote]Ashley

So if Canada doesn't win team gold, will it be Independent Athletes from Russia Gold and Canada Silver again? Who rounds out the top five?

Canada is going to win Team Gold. I am focusing my entire effort on the team event!

Speaking of Canada, I'm not sure how Kaitlyn Weaver is keeping it together.

Virtue/Moir are surely going to skate both Team segments. Just like they did last Olympics. So, Weaver/Poje are going to retire with no Olympic medals. Kevin Reynolds, Kirsten Moore-Towers and Dylan Moscovitch have Silver medals. But not Weaver/Poje. That must be driving her nuts.

r224 Christian Laettner was on the 92 Dream Team and Shaquille O'Neal was not. Sometimes the better athlete is left home for political reasons.

All the hassle of getting Canadian citizenship and no Olympic medal to show. Weaver would have had a better shot in the U.S. where the dominant team knows how to stay retired.

After watching V/M adapted new Moulin Rouge routine, I worry for P/C. I think P/C have the better, and typically better skated routine, but V/M is flashier and shinier and I just don't think Moonlight Sonata is good enough (like Bolero-level) to overcome the bright shiny new toy aspect of Moulin Rouge.

And honestly, as much as I strongly dislike Tessa and as much as I honestly think her dress and the whole Moulin Rouge routine is a tacky mess, it's hard to believe how GOOD that routine is. 20 years ago a team like Punsalan/Swallow had a (small outside) chance at a medal in Ice Dance. Can you imagine Elizabeth Punsalan being able to do any of the moves Tessa does? It's almost insane to think that the sport has progressed that much in 20 years where if you look at women's figure skating, Tara had a 3lutz/2loop in her short, and two combinations with double triples in her free - and many competitive women won't attempt anything above a 3L/2T this year.

Men's jumping and spinning have both progressed, but we'll see if the skating holds up or if its a fiasco like last Olympics. 20 years ago while Stojko had no artistry, at least Kulik and Candeloro did, so even then today might not be a huge improvement.

the real Canadian head case was and always will be Emanuel Sandhu. No-one else ever beat Plushenko, but what a flame out of a career.

V/M have added some flash to Moulin Rouge, but it's such an overdone piece of music at this point that I don't see how anyone will see it as shiny and new. Their technique is pretty amazing at this point, but P/C float across the ice and have a deeper musicality than V/M, so we'll see. Really could go either way. I'll root for P/C, but if V/M wins, P/C are young enough to easily make it to the next quad.

[quote] So if Canada doesn't win team gold, will it be Independent Athletes from Russia Gold and Canada Silver again? Who rounds out the top five?

China, Japan, Italy and France are likely to be 4th-7th. It will be a close call who will make the FS. And that could impact some of the results of the top 3 (for ex France pair will be placed between Russia and USA in the FS but if it's Japan making to the final, their pair will be dead last allowing US to be a 1 point closer to Russia).

r230 Interesting. I really hate the team trophy format. I don't like that it means we end up seeing many of these performances twice, I hate that it gives some individuals or pairs a chance to work out nerves just because they happen to be from a country with a lot of skaters, I don't like the weird scoring system that seems provide perverse incentives for fans to root for certain people to do well or poorly, and I don't really care for the switch rules which seem to be designed specifically to get more people medals.

Couldn't they come up with any more creative a way to do a team event? Even the old Ice Wars format seemed more exciting than this.

I also think the Gala is hokey and should be discontinued, and I realize that might mean I just have bad opinions.

I know this happened a while back but, somehow we all just let r129 claim that Jeremy Abbot was a great artistic skater.

Question: is there even a shred of truth to this? Follow up: is r129 Jeremy Abbot? Is he the one greying out all the threads?

ouch, the first group at Euros

they would make bottom Kevin look not out of place

many of them would lose to Ashley

First guy from Bulgaria scored 50.24.

Second skater, queeny guy from Ireland...20 for TES...he got 43 overall.

Turkish guy with awful hairstyle...weak skating skills, but he has some jumps. 61.27

Larry Loupolover.....not looking happy. 52.44

Some chap from Monaco...54.64

I think only the Turkish guy did the 3A. The others can't do it.

Paniot is coached by Tammy Gambill?

He just did the SP at Euros with one of the most idiotic strategies out there.

He wanted to do a layout with 2 Quads. 4T as single jump and then 4F in the combo

The only problem is that he's quite good and promising but he's not Chen or Hanyu

He fell on the 4T

And then he fell on the 4F. So no combo

He scored only 60.07. And unless two of those left to skate also bomb, he's out of the FS.

Luckely for him there are a couple of skaters left who are not that good (Harris, Maysuradze, Walker).

So far qualified for the FS:

HAYRAPETYAN (69.49)

REZNICHENKO (63.96)

BOE (61.85)

PONSART (61.45)

DEMIRBOGA (61.27)

MONTOYA (61.23)

NAURITS (60.76)

[quote]I also think the Gala is hokey and should be discontinued, and I realize that might mean I just have bad opinions.

It seems mostly pointless to me to have the galas now that they can skate to music with lyrics. By the way, when did they make this change and why? I stopped watching skating for a long period so I wasn't aware of the change when they made it.

Men Short Program at Euros in Moscow

1) Javier Fernandez 103.82

2) Dimitri Aliev 91.33

3) Deniss Vasiljevs 85.11 (PB)

4) Mikhal Kolyada (no combo) 83.41

5) Jorik Hendricxk 78.56

6) Matteo Rizzo 78.26 (PB)

7) Moris Kvitelashvili 76.74 (2 falls under a disgusted look by Eteri who didn't even go to sit in the K&C with him)

8) Alexei Bychenko 74.97

9) Alexander Samarin 74.25 (2 splats on the Quads. Ridiculously high PCS)

10) Michael Brezina 72.72

11) Paul Fentz 72.54

12) Alexander Majorov 71.28

then the rest. The good old Doctor from Finland with 60.23 is the last to make the cut for FS.

Usual meltdown by Samohin. 3 falls. -5 deduction. And out of FS.

Exhibitions from the US Nationals have been posted on Youtube.

Why are they still hiring Hamilton to do commentary? Was it only because Tara and Johnny took off early?

I'm surprised homophobe Hamilton even opened his mouth during Rippon's performance.

I like the idea of the gala, but most skaters just skate to crappy pop music and don't take any risks so it's boring as hell. A few skaters do interesting exhibitions...Misha Ge, Javier, etc. But it's usually like 10% quality and 90% rubbish.

During Miner's exhibition Hamilton gushes about how Miner is skating to a Bruce Springsteen song and then comments that, "not many skaters could pull this off."

Um... what could he possibly have meant by that?

Bradie has a Kerrigan quality about her, no?

[quote] Bradie has a Kerrigan quality about her, no?

More Lipinski than Kerrigan for me.

I never thought that Lipinski should be entered in to the Kentucky Derby!

Pairs SP at European Championships

1) Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES 75.02

2) Natalia ZABIIAKO / Alexander ENBERT 72.95

3) Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV 72.05

4) Valentina MARCHEI / Ondrej HOTAREK 71.89 PB

5) Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV 70.37

6) Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE 64.53

7) Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER 63.94

8) Lola ESBRAT / Andrei NOVOSELOV 57.48

9) Annika HOCKE / Ruben BLOMMAERT 57.05

10) Paige CONNERS / Evgeni KRASNOPOLSKI 52.32

etc.

James/Cipres have a really good shot at Euro Gold now.

Tarasova/Morozov used to be very consistent but it's 3 competitions in a row with mistakes. The fight for Olympic bronze is really open assuming Sui/Han and Savchenko/Massot are the top 2

Do we know why Michelle Kwan divorced her husband??? He was the one who asked for the divorce first....I wonder why.

The one time I literally gasped at a gala performance was when Duhamel and Radford did a program where he's grabbing her by one arm and one leg, swinging her around and then he throws her into the air so that she lands on her skates. She misses that landing and her brains are all over the ice.

I think the team event is silly. If the point is to give out more medals then why not have a medal for the short program, a medal for the long program, then have medals given for individual jumps - like which man can do the best quad, which woman can do the best spiral etc.

I had nothing to do with it, R246!!!!

R247 and don't forget best spin!

And Best Ina Bauer which I'd win, right???

So what is going on with Adam? Is he transitioning into a female or something? He has let go of the last ounce of masculinity he ever had.

Ugh! Send Ross instead.

Even if he were transitioning... he wouldn't have even been able to make the Ladies squad.

I wonder if Ashley Wagner will drown her sorrows in a quart of gelato. I know I would.

Bitch at R252, GTFO here with that lame mess.

Is there a man in the world hotter than Javier? His ass in the short is insane!

He does this pose off the ice too.

Yes, R254, the designer of that outfit is a genius. The way it scoops down draws your eyes to that ass the entire program.

Meanwhile, just finished watching Pairs and they had some truly hideous outfits. Whoever is styling Matteo Guarise needs an ass kicking. All that beauty wasted. (Though he truly doesn't help things with the man bun. Why? Who finds that hot?) Last year's outfits were ugly, too.

Coach Nina Mozer looks like a blast. I'm fascinated by her and that ratty ass purple fur.

Commentator Ryan Bradley's voice drives me crazy. And he won't shut up during a program. Please tell me he won't be doing the Olympics.

I hope Javier decides to go without facial hair/stubble for the Olympics.

I know that sititng 4-5 hours judging can be difficult.

But there was some serious random judging by some judges in second and third tier skaters at Euros.

I know that in the end it is how you ranked them that it's more important rather than the mark itself. But COP was supposed to bring some objectivity into figure skater. Then you see the mark for Composition to the Armenia skater

judge 7: 8.0

judge 8 (who is Turkish): 5.25

In some cases there may be some agendas, but others seem totally random

Judge 7 (who comes from Slovakia, non France)...Performance

Ponsart: 7.25 (for almost all other judges he was below 6.0 with one going down to 4.75)

Boe 5.50 (he was generally around 6. 5.5 would be ok but not compared to scoring Ponsart over 7)

Short in Moscow

1) Alina Zagitova 80.27 (no Eteri in the K&C. Even if Med had already skated)

2) Evgenia Medvedeva 78.57

3) Carolina Kostner 78.30

4) Maria Sotskova 68.70

5) Nicole Rajcova 61.01

6) Anita Ostlund 56.04

7) Laurine Lecavelier 55.36

8) Loena Hendrickx 55.13

9) Alexia Paganini 54.95

10) Mae Berenice Meité 54.14

i hope to god Zagitova and Medove BOMB at the olympics. can't stand their fucking ugly skating and programs and the massive overscoring they get every time. I don't even like Osmond, Miyahara, Daleman and co. but damn can't i stand those eteri bots

LOL 260 So who do you like? Kostner?

Interesting that Zagitova beat Eugenia in the short. This is the first time they went head to head right? Would love to watch the long

it's the first time Med loses a segment since Gracie outscored her in SP in Boston

Yvett Toth gets the Hungary Olympic spot. The other girl didn't qualify for the FS

Anita Ostlund is the only one left for Swedish Olympic spot as Matilda whatever bombed hard and didn't qualify for FS. Now it's up to Swedish Olympic Committee and its absurd standards (they ask her and Majorov to get the score the 8th at 2017 Worlds got).

Kori apparently has some VISA problems and she didn't make it to Moscow.

Lecavelier was almost having a nervous breakdown in the K&C

What does 'visa problems' mean, anyway?

Didn't feel like going so she sent her assistant?

R261 Yeah granny Kostner is enjoyable to watch when she can actually jump. (like she did today) at least she can skate and perform without the windmill arms or swinging her legs around to be able to hit an edge like those russia bots do I'm partial to Marin Honda but she is a headcase prone to meltdowns like she had this season. Any skater i like is usually tragic anyways

R265 The Embassy didn't give it to her in time?

Bourzat (who did her choreo) was in the K&C with LL.

R263 are u sure of that?? i thought they asked Majorov to be 8th because he already went once to olympics in Sochi and to go again he needs to prove he is a medal contender. (poor guy BYE). But that Anita girl never went so she should be fine. at least that was my understanding.

R268 my understanding was that if you get that standard, Swedish Olympic Committee can't reject your nomination. If you don't get it, it's up to them to decide to send you or not. But young promising athletes who has never performed in a previous Olympic Game will get a special consideration even if they didn't reach the standard.

So yes, the Anita girl is more likely to be approved than Majorov because she is young and didn't take part to Sochi. if she stays in top 10 on Saturday, it's probably enough.

The manager of Swedish Skating Association is quoted as "Now the European Championship will be decisive whether the Swedish Olympic Committee intends to take out any skater to the Olympic Games, and if so, who of Östlund and Algotsson is allowed to go"

wow Swedish OC tough crowd lol.

Think about Swedish OC trying to analyze Anita's body of work

The way things are going I highly doubt Medvedeva take the Gold in Korea. I am thinking Kostner put together a good strategy for the season and may be our winner.

Zagitova cheated both the 3Lz and 3L. But of course no call. She'll win the Olympics - Medvedeva is running out of gas. Kostner was wonderful and should have been 1st.

I am no fan of Alina but her jumps are rarely cheated. It's all she has.

Tarasova/Morozov FS overscored in quite spectacular way

R275 watch her jumps in slow she cheats that 3Lz3Lo ALL THE DAMN TIME and never gets called. her flip is also short most of the time

R276, TES was fair, perhaps PCS 2 points lower but otherwise, when they skate clean they get about that amount.

* slowmo

R277, I watched, it's "within", that's why she never gets called. If she was a cheater she would have been caught as she has faced some hostile tech panels.

what panels were hostile to her?? certainly not COC or TDF. the would have been caught thing doesn't work with Medvedeva's flutz so i disagree with you

R281, she has been competing internationally for years now. I know it is fashionable to hate on Russians and particularly Eteri students but she is what she is and what she does technically is impressive. Find the areas where she should fairly be criticised as there are plenty.

[quote]what she does technically is impressive

Skimming underrotated jumps with questionable edges? I have a different definition of impressive.

R278 they gave them positive GOE for landing with second foot down...

R283, well too bad, tough luck for you then.

285 is Eteri

R286, I wish but thanks...

no way, it's Daniil

Meanwhile, Zabjako/Enbert drop behind Stolbova/Klimov who are on the podium now

At least it's Stolbova making mistakes now. Therefore, Fedor is still alive

James/Cipres are making mistakes. They should drop behind T/M

to be fair to the judges now, J/C seem to have get positive GOEs for crap landings too

wow, Zabjako/Enbert get bronze by 0.01 over James/Cipres

Silver to Stolbova/Klimov

Gold to Tarasova/Morozov

4th place for Marchei/HOtarek with a new PB (204.something)

WOW, that was very harsh for J/C. Damn it I was rooting for them to take it. But this was rather edge competition where everyone except for T/M skated crap.

1) Tarasova/Morozov 221.60

2) Stolbova/Klimov 211.01

3) Zabiiako/Enbert 210.18

4) James/Cipres 210.17

5) Marchei/Hotarek 204.20

6) Della Monica/Guarise 192.38

7) Ziegler/Kiefer 181.75

8) Hocke/Blommaert 170.21

9) Conners/Krasnopolski 163.55

10) Esbrat/Novoselov 160.47

UGHH I hate T/M! So so so bland. And the FS music is nauseating.

J/C skated tight and not very well but they were done dirty put behind that atrocious 3rd Russian couple that no one ever remembers

Protocols

R288 who is that Daniil person? I heard rumors about some wannabe choreographer w that name but i don't believe them since there is no good terrorism or holocaust program this year

Things I learned from these first groups in Ice Dance

I am already tired by man in black with a deep V

Barbara Fuser Poli is spending the whole morning running from K&C to boards. She just had something like 3 teams in a row

1) Gabriela Papadakis/Guillaume Cizeorn (France) 81.29

2) Alexandra Stepanova/Ivan Bukin (Russia) 74.38

3) Anna Cappellini/Luca Lanotte (Italy) 74.76

4) Ekaterina Babrova/Dmitri Soloviev (Russia) 74.43

5) Charlene Guignard/Marco Fabbri (Italy) 71.58

6) Penny Coomes/Nick Buckland (Great Britain) 69.45

7) Sara Hurtado/Kirill Khaliavin (Spain) 66.60

8) Tiffany Zagorski/Jonathan Guerreiro (Russia) 65.35

9) Laurence Fournier / Nikolaj Sorensen (Denmark) 65.03

10) Natalia Kaliszek / Maksym Spodyriev (Poland) 64.80

11) Alexandra Nazarova/Maksim Nikitin (Ukraine) 63.20

12) Alisa Agafonova/Alper Ucar (Turkey) 59.30

13) Anna Yanoskaya / Adam Lukacs (Hungary) 59.13

14) Marie Jade Lauriault/Romain LeGac (France) 58.99

15) Angelique Abachkina/Louis Thauron (France) 58.14

16) Cecilia Torn / Jussiville Partanen (Finland) 57.73

17) Lucie Mysliveckova / Lukas Csolley (Slovakia) 54.71

18) Jasmine Tessari/Francesco Fioretti (Italy) 54.25

19) Viktoria Kavaliova / Yurii Bieliaiev (Belaurs) 53.64

20)tTina Garabedian / Simon Proulx Senecal (Armenia) 51.77

* 75.38 for Stepanova/Bukin

so it happened S/B have beaten B/S in the Short Dance.

I don't understand what is supposed to be so great about Stepanova/Bukin. They always look so sloppy to me and he is fug.

These marks make me wonder if Russia is afraid Bobrova/Soloviev won't be approved by IOC for the Olympics

P/C score was a bit too generous. She clearly had some issues in the twizzles but a couple of judges gave them +3 anyway.

So are you guys saying that the judging is still as crooked as the 6.0 era?

i'm baffled at how much the judges but also the commentators are trying to make stepanova/bukin happen. how? why? they are a mess

Men are the second to last group.

Fentz splattered so many times I lost count

Brezina didn't splat too many time

Majorov did well and takes the lead. He will be in top 10. Swedish Olympic Committee, it's up to you but he deserves to close his career at Olympics.

Moris is doing crap. Eteri is going to kill him. But she smiled when he fell all over after a quad

lol I am watching this youtube Euros live stream of some random Russian gay. When the guy with the rainbow came out he was queening out.

Who knew? Russian gays are no different than American ones.

Yes!!! Aliev gets silver. They can't send their wooden darling (Samarin) to OG now

Yay! Dmitri was the top Russian man. He gay...

Euro Men finals

1) Javier Fernandsez (Spain) 295.55

2) Dmitri Aliev (Russia) 274.06

3) Mikhail Kolyada (Russia) 258.90

4) Deniss Vasiljevs 243.52

5) Alexei Bychenko (Israel) 238.44

6 Alexander Samarin (Russia) 229.81

7 Alexander Majorov (Sweden) 225.86

8 Michal Brezina (Czech Rep) 225.20

9 Matteo Rizzo (Italy) 219.43

10 Jorik Hendrickx (Belgium) 218.17

11 Chafik Besseghier (France) 211.17

12 Moris Kvitelashvili (Georgia) 210.47

13 Phillip Harris (UK) 208.22

14 Romain Ponsart (France) 200.72

15 Slavik Hayrapetyan (Armenia) 196.63

16 Paul Fentz (Germany) 194.9

17 Irakli Maysuradze (Georgia) 191.22

18 Stephane Walker (Switzerland) 185.41

19 Valtter Virtanen (Finland) 181.77

20 Felipe Montoya (Spain) 181.72

21 Daniel Albert Naurits (Estonia) 176.10

22 Sondre Oddvoll Boe (Norway)170.64

23 Burak Demirboga (Turkey)167.22

24 Igor Reznichenko (Poland) 165.65

[quote] 7 Alexander Majorov (Sweden) 225.86

PB in the FS. Best placement at Euros since 2013. In 2015 he donated bone marrow to his father (and coach...he was the first coach of Yagudin) who was diagnosed with leukaemia.

During the weekend the Swedish Olympic Committee will review his and Anita's body of work. Maybe Ashley can send a letter to ask them to take her in consideration.....

[quote] 19 Valtter Virtanen (Finland) 181.77

this one is a doctor. He works in a clinic in Germany in the morning and trains in the afternoon/evening. He sets his PB today. He'll be 31 this year, but maybe he will carry on as no-one in Finland can beat him.

Aliev has beautiful lines, posture and extensions. And feels the music. Now he just needs better spins. Most of the men's music selections /programs were such garbage

By the way, I guess , no further confirmation is needed that Lambiel is fucking Deniss?

R304- Basically it's the same. They tried to make it look more legit by giving points for elements, but ice dancing was notorious for having the results predetermined before anyone skated and that really hasn't changed much.

Add that some of the judges seem not so well trained. Therefore you get the incompetent judging added to the rigged judging. This result in even more bizarre results.

Some of the protocols at Senior B (or Senior C, those below the Challenger Series) are a nightmare.

Question: Who will you be legitimately happy for if they do well and really sad for if they do poorly at Olympics. Somebody who you wouldn't attribute success or failure to luck, someone who deserves to do well and has trained hard and who you wouldn't wish poorly upon?

Its funny, because I would have said Adam going into nationals, and my immediate reaction when he popped the first of the jumps in his long was genuine anguish and when he popped the second it was just complete shock. But seeing his reaction to that moment and the lack of... I don't know if there's a best way to handle the Olympic selection process, but there's got to be a better way. Now I would say Javier and P/C.

I say that, but if Papadakis has errors on twizzles I think part of me will blame her for their failure as opposed to just feeling genuine sadness for them. On the women's side, I'm not emotionally attached to anyone. I'd be happy for Bradie or Mirai if they do well, but I don't think I'd care much if they underperform.

R304 R313 R314

At a Challenger Series event last season:

“During the Pairs FS, judge 1 and judge 2 began talking quite loudly after the British team missed a lift. Judges 3 - 6 looked at that direction, nearly in unison, as the distraction was so severe. After the skaters finished their program the referee walked behind us and spoke to judge 7 in Russian, making him laugh. Judges 1 and 2 continued to talk.”

They probably weren't even rigging the event. The British pair is crap, you don't need cheating to beat them. But given they weren't paid much attention, they were likely scoring them as they planned before instead of judging the actual performance.

R312 Only a Japanese magazine could have made them pose in a bedroom without realizing what others would have thought.

I think Gabriella Papadakis gets a bad rap as far as twizzles are concerned. (Though I do watch a lot of Canadian TV and Carol Lane moans through every P/C twizzle looking for errors.) Gabriella had a slight issue today (watch it and you'll barely notice it)...but it was nothing compared to Guillaume's fuckup in Helsinki.

After her concussion, she had obvious difficulty that season. It wasn't so noticeable in the side-by-sides...but you could see it in standalone twizzles. They were a little slow and wonky. But, since then she's been solid. P/C have never had a twizzle disaster like the Shibs, Chock/Bates, Hubbell Donohue, Weaver/Poje or Gilles/Poirier.

Was happy for Aliev, but I kept comparing his "To Build A Home" to P/C's. So, I guess I'd say that he may feel the music, but that he's not quite able to fully interpret the music and let it flow through him. But, he's promising and way better than Kolyada or Samarin.

[quote]Question: Who will you be legitimately happy for if they do well and really sad for if they do poorly at Olympics. Somebody who you wouldn't attribute success or failure to luck, someone who deserves to do well and has trained hard and who you wouldn't wish poorly upon?

I think it would be a real pity if Javier retires without an Olympic medal. He's sacrificed a lot and he seems like a genuinely good guy without an ego.

R317, Aliev's interpretation is obviously not P/C levels ... they simply own the music. Aliev is very nice and pleasant to watch, but he doesn't yet fully live the music.

Skaters don't seem to have any personality these days, so I can't say I'll be crushed if one skater or another loses. I miss Brasseur and Eisler, Christopher Bowman, Torvil and Dean, Kurt Browning, the Dushayneys- they all had some kind of personality and charm on the ice. Now, they all look bland and like they came out of the same cookie cutter.

If there's one skater I would like to see succeed it's Mirai. I know a lot of people hate on her but she is someone who has worked really hard over the years to improve. Not something easy at her age.

The European skaters are ugly.

I second R321. I would love to see Mirai medal, if only as a big F-you to both USFSA and the one who bumped her from the 2014 team (forgot her name already...Ashton or something....)

[quote]The European skaters are ugly.

You think Javier Fernandez, Luca Lanotte, Alexander Enbert, Morgan Cipres, etc. are all uglier than Crazy Eyes Chan, Jason Brown, Evan Bates, etc.? Your taste is strange.

Also Aliev's program itself is boring and the choreography nothing special. There could be so much more in terms of transitions (look at Jason Brown)

The Chinese pairs withdrew from 4CC. It's never been my favorite competition, but it seems like it will be especially crappy this year.

Aliev will be hot when he grows up. He has Joubert potential.

r327 Are you blind?...Joubert he is not

You're the blind one cunt @ R328

r324 Aw. I think Evan Bates is cute. I don't mind that he's straight either because I don't find him the least bit sexual, but I think he has a perfectly lovely puppy dog face. Chan's face and attitude might be a turn off, but his body makes up for a lot of sins.

Are James/Cipres still skaiting to Sounds of Silence too? How did this song take over so quickly? You Raise Me Up/Carmen/Firebird/Moulin Rouge have had a smattering of routines forever (or in YRMU and MRs case since lyrics have been allowed), but it seems like we went from 0 Sounds of Silences to 100 in 1 year.

I'm surprised more people don't skate to pop pablum like Katy Perry's Roar or upbeat songs that are about overcoming obstacles more. It seems like with a song like that and a few well placed sweeping arm movements, if you have a clean skate it would be very easy to get the crowd on your side and get composition artistry points without the need for actual artistry (see Russ and his Queen program).

I guess Mirai is committed to continue learning new skills and upping her game. Apparently she's now training tano jumps. I don't recall seeing her do them before. I'm not really sure this is the best strategy just weeks before the games. But I do at least admire that she's constantly pushing herself. You know, unlike a certain someone who thought she'd just get placed on the team again.

"Ashley Wagner plans to be in South Korea one way or another"

is this a threat?

R331...

Honestly, I wish Mirai would focus more on her presentation and performance skills than her jumping.

She gives nothing to the audience and skates with dead eyes and arms, going through the motions just setting up for the next jump.

It's so hard for me to believe this is the same girl who skated with such expressiveness and heart at the Olympics in 2010.

This was Mirai at her absolute best--physically, mentally, technically and artistically. She was thin and in prime physical shape, her jumps were fully rotated and never looked better, and she had on-ice charisma in spades.

I want this Mirai back, but I think she's gone forever.

She's gotten herself back to the Olympics, but something fundamentally broke inside her after 2010. All her expressiveness is gone, and her skating is so joyless now. She's never gotten that back I'm afraid.

Damn, Mirai used to be such a charming skater, which is what I remember, but she's just so dreary now that I don't enjoy watching her. I respect her grit, but that's about it.

It's weird to see a skater lose all her personality on ice.

Abachkina/Thauron totally missed a lift in the FD

Lauriault/Le Gac (who delivered their PB in FS) have comfortably beaten them and got second French ticket for Olympics.

Yeah, I'm with R330...Evan Bates is cute. Not sexy, but perfect boyfriend material. Meanwhile, I hope Chock/Bates surprise everyone and sneak away that Bronze medal from the boring Shibs and way overhyped Hubbell/Donohue. So many heads would explode.

C/L bombed. FS lower than Guignard/Fabbri. Russia will take Silver and Bronze. Let's in what order

Bobrova/Soloviev take back second place over Stephanova/Bukin

R334, you are absolutely right!

I, on the other hand, express TONS of personality on ice. It’s all in the coquettish winking, head tilting, and hand on hip thrust, you see.

203.16 for P/C

[quote]Aliev will be hot when he grows up. He has Joubert potential.

He looks good from some angles and others, not so much. He does have a perfect body and ass though.

Joubert looks like crap now...his hotness peaked ages ago.

Asslee will make a sign that says: "South Korea or Bust" - and you know where that will leave her.

[quote]Honestly, I wish Mirai would focus more on her presentation and performance skills than her jumping.

I agree but is her focus on jumping rather than presentation a result of the new scoring system? Is presentation and performance going to help her chances at a medal or would it just be a waste of time?

[quote]This was Mirai at her absolute best--physically, mentally, technically and artistically. She was thin and in prime physical shape, her jumps were fully rotated and never looked better, and she had on-ice charisma in spades.

I agree. I often wonder if USFSA, or Frank, or both, broke her. I mean, the way that she's been treated by USFSA alone, I could understand it. But I don't if I agree that she's never been expressive again. There have been glimpses of it. I really liked her Imagine Dragons SP and some of her exhibition pieces show that she's not completely dead inside.

Here's Javier's EC2018 winner. People are bitching about it but imho it still was the best exercise. What do you think?

R344 i don't love the program but i think it's much better than his SP which is just terrible. when he does the Charlo walk it gives me so much 2nd hand embarrassment. He did a good job here and his shirt is very improved compared to the GPs. I think he should do two 4T and not two 4S. The second salchow is never happening and his 4T is much more beautiful imo. Some of his weird mistakes on easier jumps or spins remind me of PChan sometimes. bff solidarity. but overall that's a very good competition from him

Emmi Peltonen gets the Finnish Olympic spot

Kori finally arrived in Moscow

But Meite beats Lecavelier again. 4th time this season (Masters of France, French GP, Nationals and Euros). Really, I guess French Fed can't find a way to send Laurine now

Ice Dance result was

1 Papadakis/Cizeron (France) 203.16

2 Bobrova/Soloviev (Russia) 187.13

3 Stepanova/Bukin (Russia) 184.86

4 Cappellini/Lanotte (Italy) 180.65

5 Guignard/Fabbri (Italy) 177.75

6 Zagorski/Guerreiro (Russia) 168.45

7 Coomes/Buckland (UK)168.42

8 Hurtado/Khaliavin (Spain) 165.03

9 Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen (Denmark) 164.90

10 Kaliszek/Spodyriev (Poland)164.48

11 Nazarova/Nikitin (Ukraine) 156.35

12 Lauriault/Le Gac (France) 154.04

13 Agafonova/Ucar (Turkey) 152.10

14 Yanovskaya/Lukacs (Hungary) 148.69

15 Torn/Partanen (Finland)145.60

16 Abachkina/Thauron (France) 139.74

17 Mysliveckova/Csolley (Slovakia) 136.51

18 Tessari/Fioretti (Italy) 133.00

19 Garabedian/Proulx Senecal (Armenia) 131.30

20 Kavaliova/Bieliaiev (Belaurs) 128.38

Papadakis/Cizeron got all 10s for Interpretation and Composition. All +3 by Judge 2 (France), 5 (Russia), 6 (Czech Republic)

I hope Papa/Cizer win the Olympics over those Canadians whores.

Anita bombed big time. She's out of top 15

Kostner is wearing..I don't know..something horrible...green and glitter

Disastrous FS for Kostner

She saved bronze over Sotskova by 4 points

With a 51.86 TES in the FS. LOL!

Zagitova clean

238 overall

Med needs 159.something to beat her

She's clean apart from a bit messy landing on the first jump

78 TES

I think Alina will win it

1 Zagitova 238.24

2 Med 232.86

3 Carolina's PCS 204.25

4 Sotskova 200.81

5 Loena 176.91

6 Rajcova 171.90

7 Paganini 161.62

8 Meite 159.70

9 Peltonen 159.48

10 Schott 157.84

Medvedeva bye gurl. hopefully it's the beginning of the end for her

who cares about bitching Ashley?

Finnish blonde girl who earned the Olympic spot at Nebelhorn loses to other Finnish blonde girl today. She is interviewed after FS and says "it's better that she skates well in Pyeongchang and doesn't start to pop jumps given I earned her spot"

Olivia Smart hasn't yet congratulated Hurtado/Khaliavin for securing second Spanish spot at Euros. I guess she was busy sewing the voodoo doll to use when they will skate at Olympics.

How the hell did Kostner get bronze for that? 3 Triples plus one with a shaky landing, a fall and a hand down. She should have been in 5th place just for the costume alone. She did an Osmond long program and got marked like she was Michelle Kwan. The judging is as bad as it ever was.

[quote]Medvedeva bye gurl. hopefully it's the beginning of the end for her

Wow, that downfall was fast. Girl didn't even last an entire cycle before being dethroned.

The window for these Russian girls is becoming smaller and smaller each season. Won't be long before there's a new Russian #1 every year. World champion today, gone tomorrow.

Frankly, I can't wait until this era of Russian ladies dominance is over, with their hunch-back skating, pantomime choreography, and crazy inflated PCS scores. I don't think time will be kind to this "style" of skating when we look back on it in 20 years. It'll hopefully be like a bad fashion trend we vow never to repeat.

I long for the days when ladies skating celebrated straight backs, held extensions and lines, and choreography which was sensical and expressed with nuanced musicality.

Zagitova will win the Olympics, then be over the next season and be forgotten. At least it's been fun to see Medvedeva finally meet defeat, even if it's at the hands of another Russian girl who skates just as badly as she does. Sorta karma in that.

Ryom/Kim are going to the Olympics. IOC awarded them an additional quota today. They are still on the entry list for next week's 4 Continents. They are suddenly showing up everywhere.

Can someone kindly explain me what the hell the Belarus dancer was doing at 6 minutes 31second mark?

r355 It was bound to happen. People looked at the scores Yulia L got at the Olympics and figured, well if juvenile skating with hyperextended spins is what people want, we might as well throw all our eggs into that basket. There's no bonus points for holding extended edges or skating with maturity. Coaches won't care because there will always be a new 12 year old Russian girl to grift, and skaters are too young with stars in their eyes to know any different.

I give credit to the Japanese men, they've found a way to stay at the top of the sport, but with people with longevity who seem to really enjoy skating and the skating lifestyle. You wish people would learn from the Japanese men's program instead of a 14 year old girl who had no problem doing a Bielman to the theme song from Schindler's list.

You know, I am starting to belief those kirill khalyavin rumors from juniors were true. As he has aged, there is just something about this skater that pings hardcore. Probably wishful thinking on my part.

Good thing he is now skating for Spain, he'll exposed to many hot gays in Spain...

i thought Khalyavin was dating his ex partner Ksenia Monko. is this still happening? was that fake?

oh they got married

R358. He married Monko this summer.

And not that he spends too much time in Spain to be able to meet anyone of any gender. I think he speaks something like 2 words of Spanish in total.

I know those which words he knows:

"follar" and "culo"

I quite like their FD . Yes, it's old fashioned and seems directly out of another Ice Dance era. But at least it is a break in the middle of around 100 lyrical snoozefests

Sara doesn't look like such a troll now. I really prefer them over Smart and Diaz.

Diaz's ass is remarkable. They are good in the Latin SD. But their FD is a mess.

If the rumors that Smart/Diaz are Spanish Fed's darlings and that they set up everything for them only to have Zhulin/Khaliavin/Russia/KGB/whatever rigging the Golden Spin results and messing their whole selection are true...

...yes, I should be outraged by cheating judging but the whole situation made me laugh.

I can imagine the Spanish judge (who was marking S/D at the same level or above Bobrova/Soloviev at Golden Spin) going mad because at the other side of the judges' table the Belarus judge was talking loudly and copying the marks of the Russian woman in favour of H/K.

[quote]Diaz's ass is remarkable.

Any photos?

ok with all this talk about Rippon being the 1st gay olympian out, i wanted to do a list of the gay/bi skaters/coaches

OUT : Adam Rippon, Tim LeDuc, Eric Radford, Javier Raya, Luis Fenero, Joe Johnson, Brian Orser, Brian Boitano, Tim Goebbel, John Curry, Johnny Weir, Jeff Buttle, Rudy Galindo, David Wilson, Toller Cranston, Robin Cousins, Randy Gardner, Ondrej Nepala , Matt Savoie, Mark Mitchell, Romain Haguenauer, Jamal Othman, Rohene Ward, Fumie Suguri

PRETTY SURE : Stéphane Lambiel, Guillaume Cizeron, Evan Lysacek, Jorik Hendrickx, Jason Brown, Daisuke Takahashi, Daisuke Murakami, Tatsuki Machida, Denniss Vasiljevs, Dick Button, Christopher Bowman, Drew Meekins, Massimo Scali, Emanuel Sandhu, Jeremy Abbott, Richard Callaghan

MAYBE : Daniil G, Florent Amodio, Max Aaron, Josh Farris, Yan Han, Alexei Yagudin, Denis Ten, Yuzuru Hanyu, Shoma Uno, Gracie Gold, Katarina Witt

what do you think?

R367 I know for a fact that Evan is at the very least, Bi. But let's face it, as much as he loves cock... he's gay.

You fucked Evan 368?? Was he as expressive as when he skates? Also was his dick orange too?

Gracie Gold and Katarina Witt might be gay?

Witt was a total slut who would fuck anyone who could help her out

r370 Lesbian/bisexual rumors followed Witt from her first appearance on the scene. My mother never followed a single gossip magazine in her life, and she was aware of the Witt lesbian talk. So there was plenty of smoke there...

Fumie Suguri is an out lesbian? This is news to me. Source please?

[quote]You fucked Evan 368?? Was he as expressive as when he skates? Also was his dick orange too?

We go to the same gym. Let's just say I've experienced what he has to offer and he offers it a lot. And yes, he's very expressive.

R373 Suguri came out as bisexual in 2014 in Japanese press. There is a link on her wikipedia page. She was also in some kind of matchmaking TV show to find a date and was considering a lesbian.

Evan was always so inexpressive and bland when he skated. glad he is not when at the gym

[quote]Evan was always so inexpressive and bland when he skated. glad he is not when at the gym

I should have clarified. He's expressive in the way that he can't help but emote desperate, angry, cunt when he can't get what he wants.

r376 All I can think of is poor poor Nastia. She should have known Evan wasn't fair game. But then again, she has so much experience in... shall we say... stepping out of bounds.

I think Emanuel Sandhu is out. Stephane was outed ages ago and he is pretty open w/his partner these days.

I don't think Florent Amodio is gay, or Max Aaron. But I would add Kevin Reynolds, Grant, Tim Dolensky, Shawn Sawyer, & Christopher Caluza.

R363, its Don Quixote... how do they not make it old fashioned? I think it suits them and is very well skated. It's actually a Don Quixote program I can watch and not think "great, another warhorse program"

Oh, I think Sondre Oddvoll Boe of Norway can also be added to the "pretty sure" list. The flames are visible from space.

Is this really Emanuel Sandhu? If so he was very handsome when he had his old nose, and lips, and cheeks, and skin color.

Is Frank Carroll gay?

[quote]Is Frank Carroll gay?

Is Dick Button?

LOVED Guignard/Fabbri. (Muse be damned)

[quote]t's actually a Don Quixote program I can watch and not think "great, another warhorse program"

It's Man of La Mancha, different from Don Quixote the ballet, which is much more of a warhorse.

After Patrick Chan's LP, I think it's the best men's LP of the season (though of course there aren't that many new programs to choose from). Hope he can turn out a great performance in Pyongchang. Would love to see him take home a medal.

^is that you crazy eyes?

R385, I'm talking about Hurtado/Khaliavin's FD, not Javier's program

Oh oops. Sorry, didn't check to whom you were responding. I pay almost no attention to dance and pairs.

Dance is where it's at, R388.

Why do you think Gracie Gold might be gay? The only thing I can't think of is that she was briefly part of Taylor Swift's set--but that always seemed a publicity thing.

Katarina Witt, on the other hand--she was gorgeous for a long time, but has never married--her romances seem to be more for show than anything.

As for the men, a list of the straight ones would be much shorter--Elvis Stojko, Michael Weiss, Zachary Donohue, Evan Bates, Scott Hamilton, Sergei Grinkov, Ilia Kulik, Evgeni Plushenko, Christopher Dean

Maybe: Charlie White, Ben Agosto (read something about a long-time girlfriend?), Paul Wylie (yeah, yeah, but he has married and spawned).

In what world are Michael Weiss and Scott Hamilton straight?

I thought both were supposed to be somewhat homophobic. Weiss bitched about the issues of being straight in skating in Christine Brennan's book, while Scott has said he had to come around on the gay issue--and there are DLers who know more than I who still think he has some more work to do.

But if there are questions, I'm fine moving them to the maybe category--leaving us with some Russians, some ice dancers and Elvis.

^Self-Hating.

Scott especially. He didn't marry until what, his 50s? Come on.

Michael was an insecure idiot, but post retirement has been a stellar mentor for most male US skaters. He provided a funds to help a young Jason Brown and Adam Rippon. Two queens of the highest order.

Fair enough--into the Maybe category they go.

Well, not Michael Weiss--Hamilton, yes. Weiss still sounds like a straight guy who matured.

Back to Europeans, where is the crowd? Is skating circling the drain in Russia as well? So many empty seats in those videos.

Is it because the Japanese fans had no reason to show?

R392 - I thought Scott was great friends with Brian Orser??

Scott still makes homophobic statements on air like was pointed out above with the Springsteen comment.

Weiss was indeed very insecure. He had that fugly wife he made sure to trot out at every opportunity.

I think they're over-scoring horseface Kostner to undermine Osmond for the team event so Russia can get the gold. But given how inconsistent Osmond is, I'm not sure why they even bother.

Some thoughts on *Canadian Nationals*:

*MEN*

Wasn't surprised to see Patrick Chan making mistakes all over the place. He is still a headcase. But at least his Free Skate showed a spark of promise. He wasn't quite as much of a wreck as he has been lately.

Keegan Messing is a little bit odd and quirky, but he skated well and deserves the Olympic spot. His Charlie Chaplin program is pretty good.

*LADIES*

Not a big surprise that Kaetlyn Osmond had trouble skating cleanly. Has she ever been able to put together 2 clean programs? She has some nice moments, but is so inconsistent. She always seems to have a couple of falls at every event. It was only a matter of time before Gabby Daleman beat her.

*PAIRS*

It's too bad for Lubov and Dylan that they didn't make the Olympic team, but Seguin & Bilodeau and Moore-Towers & Marinaro really delivered and deserved their spots. Meagan and Eric were also pretty good, but they should probably get rid of the Quad Throw.

*DANCE*

Tessa & Scott were definitely very strong, although whether or not they beat Papadakis & Cizeron at Olympics remains to be seen. And although Scott may be a douche, he has a pretty nice ass.

Speaking of nice asses, Paul Poirier's ass looked great, particularly in the short dance. Weaver & Poje have struggled with the twizzles for a long time (particularly Andrew) so it's not totally surprising that it was their undoing here.

(Photo of Paul Poirier's ass:)

R367 in the "out" list you must add German ice dancer Joti Polizoakis who is also going to Olympics. He used to date Weir's mad ex husband

Drew Meekins should be moved to the "out". He has a boyfriend on his Instagram pics. The boyfriend looks like he just finished school.

R380 is there any Euro tier II skating girl who is not best friend with Sondre? Norway Federation has a little budget, at Golden Spin they made Sondre and their female skater room sharing to cut costs. It ended with a IG story of her in bra messagging on the phone in one bed and him lying in the other bed lipsinging Mariah Carey's Christmas album

How the hell did Kostner get the bronze at Europeans? That FS was a disaster--and who decided that disco-era green jumpsuit was right for Afternoon of the Faun?

R367

if we include former skaters and coaches. There is also Greg Zuerlein (assistant coach at Igor's and former partner of Madison Chock. They won Jr Worlds over the Shibutanis). Since then he has married a male ice dance judge (I suppose sucking a judge goes into "performance" component).

Russia Olympic Team announced:

Men: Kolyada, Aliev

Ladies: Medvedeva, Zagitova, Sotskova

Pairs: Tarasova/Morozov, Stolbova/Klimov, Zabiyako/Enbert

Ice Dance: Bobrova/Soloviev, Stepanova/Bukin

Good for Aliev

[Quote] Why do you think Gracie Gold might be gay? The only thing I can't think of is that she was briefly part of Taylor Swift's set--but that always seemed a publicity thing.

She always gave me that lesbian vibe i don't know. Plus they were always trying to overcompensate for something with that perfect Miss America/Ice princess image that obviously didn't fit her at all and there were never rumours of any boyfriend. Maybe she is not but i saw her in some flannel shirt recently and i was like ok yeah 100% lesbian. Tell us Gracie since you don't give a fuck™ now

I admit I do have a hard time picturing Gracie with a boyfriend. I could see it. What about that obnoxious fundie Courtney Hicks?

According to Gracie's twitter, she has a boyfriend.

She supposedly had been dating Max Aaron at one point, if that means anything. Although, Aaron always seems to me to be trying too hard to show he's masculine/straight. Do you know he plays hockey? Do you know he has no style on the ice? He MUST be straight!

I wonder if Evan Lysacek gets all "windmill arms" when he's about to cum...

Osmond can do short programs clean but it's always the long that screws her up. If stamina is the problem, then she should do some kind of training for that.

When you nut but he keeps sucking >>>

r412 I wouldn't be surprised if Vera Wang didn't let Evan cum.

R412 he apparently can't cum unless something is in his ass.

Evan does like wang in his ass.

Irina Slutskaya is 40 this year. FORTY! Four-OH!

Who???

[quote]Evan does like wang in his ass.

And a tongue or a fist.

[quote]—Michelle Kwan

Who?

Lauriault/LeGac officially get the second French Olympic ticket

Amusingly now there are more Canadian born ice dance girls skating in Pyeongchang for other countries than for Canada given Piper and Weaver are from USA.

The Olympic Ice Dance count by coach is

Shpilband 5 teams

Gadbois 4

Zueva 3

Fusar Poli 2

Zhulin 2

Camerlengo/Krylova 2

r422 interesting. I don't follow coaching/choreography as much anymore. Who is the top team for each coach and how does the choreography break down?

It's fascinating to me how insular ice dancing is now compared to other disciplines. Do you think after a few years of "new ice dancing" (i.e. focus on low lifts, twizzles, footwork as opposed to deep edges and close holds) the coaching will spread out more?

Will there be drama this year like there was when the Canadian Olympic team started leaking to the press that Zueva wasn't giving V/M enough attention at last Olympics?

[R374] you go to the slammer la gym too?

[Quote] I admit I do have a hard time picturing Gracie with a boyfriend. I could see it. What about that obnoxious fundie Courtney Hicks?

nah Courtney is not a lesbian. She likes Good Christian Cock up the ass after Sunday sermon.

R423

Gadbois (Marie France Dubreuil, Patrice Lauzon, Romain Haguenauer) has

Papadakis/Cizeron (France)

Virtue/Moir (Canada)

Hubbell/Donohue (USA)

Lauriault/Legac (France)

So they have the top 2 (P/C and V/M) plus a contender for Bronze (H/D). So they can actually sweep the podium.

Shpilband has

Chock/Bates (USA)

Coomes/Buckland (UK)

Nazarova/Nikitin (Ukraine)

Min/Gamelin (South Korea)

Ceska/Mansour (Czech Republic)

Here it's clearer. Chock/Bates is his top team. The Brits aim at 10th place at best. N/N's aim is top 15. M/G and C/M hope to make the FD

Zueva has

Shibutani/Shibutani (USA)

Muramoto/Reed (Japan)

Lorenz/Polizoakis (Germany)

Again here it's clear. S/S are the medal contender. The other 2 hope to make the FD at Olympics.

Camerlengo/Krylova has

Agafonova/Ucar (Turkey)

Wang/Liu (China)

Not sure who is the best of the 2. They were 16th and 17th at Worlds last year. Camerlengo's top team is actually Hawayek/Baker but since they are USA #4, they are not going to Olympics

Zhulin has

Bobrova/Soloviev (Russia)

Hurtado/Khaliavin (Spain)

Again also here, there is only one podium contender.

Fusar Poli has

Guignard/Fabbri (Italy)

Mysliveckova/Csolley (Slovakia)

Fusar Poli is still fairly new to coaching. She has lots of second tier Euro teams

The other teams who made to PeyongChang are the only Olympic entry of their team.

Stepanova/Bukin train with Alexander Svinin, Irina Zhuk.

Weaver/Poje are with Morozov

Gilles/Poirier are with Carol Lane.

Cappellini/Lanotte are coached in Milan by Paola Mezzandri. They get some extra watch by Zueva, during the summer. Choreography is by Massimo Scali (who is Zueva's main assistant). So they are linked to one of the main schools too.

The Polish team train in Poland.

The very weak Israeli team (who will be there only because a team without citizenship earned the spot for them) is coached by Galit Chait.

Overal, only 7 teams out of 24 are based in Europe. The rest are all in USA.

France (Lyon old school) totally vanished from the picture.

r426 Interesting. I assume V/M dumped Zueva because of her lack of dedicated attention in Sochi only to end up again being coached by the coach of the only team that could beat them...

I'm not keen on the latin short/rhumba, but is the required step sequence at least a little more... distinguishable between who is good and bad... than the Finn step? I remember watching all the Finn step sequences and thinking "well, if I wanted a step sequence that could all come down to paying off a judge, it would be hard to come up with one better than this!"

The old TSL had some instructional videos about skating technique that I haven't seen since. They showed good technique vs. not so good in edges, footwork, etc. Anyone know where I could find something like that? Recommendations?

Speaking of TSL what's the story with Jenny Kirk? I know she left for awhile and people were saying it was because she got fed up with the other guy but then she was just in a video a few weeks back and now gone again?

Yeah, it was odd to me that V/M left Zueva with that complaint and then went over to Gadbois, where P/C were already training.

My gut feeling is that the real issue with V/M isn't coaching or skill, but lack of taste. They did the young lovers thing early on and people were enchanted, but they never went anywhere interesting with it. D/W came on strong from a very different direction, then won their gold and got out. No one dominates for a couple of years and then P/C with their strong identity take hold. V/M just seem sort of bland--really athletic, but bland.

And V/M can't go back to their young lovers shtick because P/C own that style in spades. No way were they going to beat the French at what they do best, which I think is why they chose Moulin Rouge. Even though it's a tacky mess, it's big and flashy, and highlights their skills as athletes--which is all they can really do when compared against P/C's sublime artistry and movement.

r431 Agreed. My only worry is, that with the new edits to the program, it is VERY FLASHY. I don't like Tessa, and I don't like the program, and even I was mesmerized during their Canadian Nats performance. I like P/C's better, and think that artistically it is stunning - I just wish P/C would up the flashbang gee whiz level a little bit more.

I will give V/M credit, they did have some rather inventive and visually pleasing lifts. The sort of... she does a figure skating spread eagle but on his thighs thing? may be overdone now, but they really made that their own in a way that is stunning. I just think they never grew from there. The best part of Davis and White's Scheherazade was not just the death/gravity defying opening lift (although it still seems almost physically impossible) it was how that wasn't just a one off statement, it was integrated into the beginning of their program and it only got bigger and faster and more athletic from there. V/M are still just GOLLY GEE LOOK AT ME. It's nice to look at, but there's no cohesive taste.

Ice dancing is usually the least memorable of all the skating events, partly because there's no anticipation of "will they or won't they land the jump?" Torvill and Dean found a memorable program and the Dushanays came up with their "in your face" style but it's hard to think of ice dancers that can stay memorable with the general public. One thing that V/M have been able to do is change tone dramatically. You couldn't get two more different styles than Mahler vs. MR. That versatility is also something that sells to the public when it comes time to sell a tour so I could see judges taking that into account.

Yes, the thing about Scheherazade that gets me isn't that first lift it's that huge build at the end with the lifts and the speed and that final triumphant moment, but at the same time all of that is going on, the movements are never out of character--she's always the beguiling exotic storyteller and he's always the obsessed king. With Moulin Rouge, the spread leg jump is impressive, but it hardly comes off as the kittenish, seductive Satine--there's no subtlety to it and I don't get the Moulin Rouge character and story from it. The lift, for instance, where Tessa stands on Scott's thigh--she's looking away from him. In contrast, P/C have a standing lift, but Gabriella's looking down and arcs toward Guillaume; it creates a romantic mood and sense of connection between them--it would have been a beautiful lift in a Moulin Rouge program--but the MR program has no tenderness in it and the story needs that.

V/M are wonderful skaters, but they're not really good interpretive dancers. I've never been an Ashley Wagner fan, but her 2016 MR program at Worlds gave a much better sense of the Satine character.

r434 Maybe Tessa could just... send me in her stead? If Scott (we are on a first name basis, don't worry) wants to change to a different movie musical I have some other ideas as well...

Works for me R434, you have the costumes and jump rotations won't be an issue.

Is this why Guillaume stays closeted, at least professionally, to keep up a romantic hetero perception?

Swedish Olympic Committee didn't approve Majorov's nomination. They are sending their spot back. It should go to Philippines whose skater hasn't competed since Nebelhorn and I am not even sure he's training anymore (he's not in 4CCs entry list).

Virtue/Moir's artistic weaknesses were evident from the very beginning. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg program that everyone raves about makes my skin crawl. The skating is beautiful...but the lack of understanding of what the music is telling them is shameful. The music is full of yearning and romance...but it is also mournful and tragic. It's not about recreating the movie plot...those things are deeply embedded in the music itself. Meanwhile, they are portraying cutesy young love with Tessa smiling the entire fucking time. Meanwhile, give that exact same program to Papadakis/Cizeron and they would find and convey those deeper emotions.

When Kurt Browning and Carol Lane were talking after P/C performed Moonlight Sonata at the GPF...Kurt said that V/M were the better team because they were more versatile. That V/M could skate Moonlight Sonata but P/C couldn't skate Moulin Rouge. But I think that's bullshit. With the exception of the pussy eating lift, what is there that P/C would be unable to do? Do they really think that P/C are unable to tango? Or is it another thinly veiled slam that P/C are unable to convey heterosexual passion like Canada's Sweethearts?

I don't seem to hear these versatility criticisms about the Shibs...and they are actually calling their past three FDs a trilogy. I wonder why that is...

The lack of criticism for the Shibs is really weird. I think people project artistry on to them, when the really have none. Nice lines, and practiced expressions at every beat does not artistry make. Their "evolution" and versatility started and ended with Fix You. There's this weird sense of protectiveness a lot of people seem to have about the Shibs, like nobody wants to be too mean and point out their lack of authenticity.

I hope U.S. fed doesn't cave and let them skate SD and FD at the team event.

Wasn't wild about Adam making the team but good on him for spiting fire at Mike Pence. The clapback from the White House was predictably weak.

yeah the lack of criticism of the Shibs from commentators was always strange but what i find even stranger is the massive amount of CRAZY fans they have. Like is it because they have that shitty youtube channel where they pretend they are friends with Mao Asada or Hanyu or more recently Uno? Everything they do, say, project is so freaking fake to me i just don't get how people can fall for that. They are the most contained, rehearsed, dishonest performers in ice dance right now it's pathetic. They should have skated in pairs, they could fit right in with Tarasova/Morozov

Nailed it. I have to wonder if their fans are older and non North American. Because any millennial can take one look at their social media and see they're fake as fuck. I find Shibs fans to be overly earnest and allergic to cynicism. I watched a lot of their videos after Sochi, mainly for the glimpses of other, but interesting skaters. I bet that accounts for a lot of their hits. You can see how calculating the Shibs are with how they promote videos with Hanyu on Youtube because they know all of his stans will watch, multiple times. Whoever mentioned that the Shibs go out of their way to cozy up to every other popular skater except their fellow ice dancers was right on. Pre- Fix You, ShibSib stans used to moan about what their precious team would have to do to ever rise in the standings. It always seemed obvious they were spending more time on meticulously crafting social media crap instead of on their skating. They've got a lot of sponsors now so that paid off, but they're never gonna win Olympic Gold. They may get their wish in following the Meryl/Charlie playbook though as I think Men and Ladies will be split for the Team Event; I think the federation would really like Mirai and Adam to medal.

I think Ashley Wagner is angling hard for a commentator position. She's already promised to be in South Korea. But will she take out Tara or Johnny in her quest?

[quote] There's this weird sense of protectiveness a lot of people seem to have about the Shibs, like nobody wants to be too mean and point out their lack of authenticity.

The commentators might not criticize them directly, but if you read between the lines of what they say (and don't say), it's clear they find them just as boring and oatmeal as we do. They will throw around buzzwords like "nice," "clean," "textbook," "fun"--all neutral, innocuous compliments that really say nothing beyond the surface. They're all throwaway compliments. I've never heard a commentator use any adjective on the Shibs that would demonstrate they felt any real connection to their skating. No "mesmerizing" or "spellbinding" or "beautiful", etc.

Even Charlie White, Alex's BFF, can't muster up much when talking about them. He, like everyone else, sticks to the usual script, talking about how clean they are, how hard they work, and their twizzles--OMFG their TWIZZLES!!!!! Every. Single. Fucking. Time. But that too shows how much the commentators struggle to muster up excitement when talking about them.

The saddest part is when you hear Marina talk about them. This is their fucking coach, and you can tell she's so uninspired by them. When asked to talk about her current "star" pupils, she'll talk about their "special" talent, but she never elaborates beyond that or elucidate what that actually means.

Ultimately, I think there is this protective air around the Shibs because they come off as super nice people who are desperate wannabes. We all knew that person in high school who tried so desperately to fit in with the cool kids, and wanted to be liked by everyone, but was so transparent about it, that you kinda felt sorry for them. They tried so hard, but everyone (but them) knew they were never going to be one of the cool kids, but because they seem so nice and harmless, you just indulge their effort.

That's how I think the general skating community see the Shibs. Nice people, but totally misguided. They become insufferable if you're one of those people who see beyond their veneer niceness, however.

So basically since the Belarus ice dance judge resigned as international judge, ISU don't have any jurisdiction and the proceedings are terminated. And we will never know what the 5 exhibits are. He was probably asked to resign to end the matter without too much noise.

It's still baffling to me that the Russian judge the Belarussian judge was talking to was not even investigated! Like if that Belarus dude was just talking loudly to himself, is that really worth an investigation? Obviously the Russian judge is already named to judge at the Olympics since she is so innocent. I'm not too worried about that Belarussian judge, he'll be back, wasn't he already banned once? Anyways I guess Marie France won't be visiting the region anytime soon. Must remind her when she lost worlds twice to those horrendous Bulgarians who always looked like they survived a dramatic encounter with a shredder

yes, he was banned when he was referee at Nepela last year. Because the Lithuanian and Russia judges spent half of the even talking to each other and he didn't do anything apart going to chat with them during the warm up and saying something to the Slovakia judge who started to laugh. When at the round table discussion after the event, the other judges complained to him about the 2 judges talking and he didn't listen to them and started to talk about how difficult it was to judge in the 6.0 era. He apparently went on about 20 minutes about it.

He got 6 months for that. Now he has totally resigned as judge

The Russian judge sitting next to him at GS was at Euros this week.

The scores for the Shibs are all over the place, too. OK...the "Fix You" FD was definitely their peak. P/C were out because of her concussion. Weaver/Poje were the #1 team and won the GPF (where the Shibs didn't even medal.) But Maia and Alex had momentum and goodwill and they rode it to that Silver in Boston. Watch that program again...and you'll see how much that music carried them.

But go to Worlds at Helsinki and they only got Bronze because of serious fuckups by both Hubbell/Donohue and Chock/Bates. Either of those teams does a clean twizzle and the Shibs are off the podium. Even this year, as the #1 American team, they can't put Hubbell/Donohue or even Chock/Bates away. It seems like there's a real lack on enthusiasm in the international community for the Shibs. They've been getting a bump as the top American team. But they're no longer US champs and now we're at the Olympics and it feels like they're in real danger of finishing 4th or 5th.

Their SD has been overscored all season based on reputation and politics. If they're brought back down to 74-76 points, they're in deep shit.

Losing the National title was big. It's a giant benchmark the judges use to place the American teams. If you're crowned the best in your country, especially when there is such depth, it's a tacit nod to the international judges that (if all skate clean), it's the National champs who should be the ones placed ahead of the pack.

Once the Shibs beat C/B at Nationals, they suddenly started placing above them internationally.

And now I think H/D will follow suit, as they should.

The Shibs might still win an Olympic medal, but it'll be only because another team(s) faltered--which is totally possible, given H/D. But all being clean and equal, the Shibs are a 5th-6th place team at best. They should be very pleased to end their careers as 2 time national champs, and multiple world medalists. That's more than they ever deserved in my opinion.

The Russians are ready to roll in PC. They will probably have Elena Fomina in the pairs panel (who put Sui/Han 4th at last year worlds and James/Ciprès 3rd in the SP at Euro) and dear Maira Abasova, the Golden Spin judge, for the ice dance. Olga Kozhemiakina will do the singles. I've really enjoyed her judging of the ladies this season, her marks for Osmond always entertain me.

yes, Fomina is their Olympic judge

At Euros French judge in Pairs (Anthony Leroy who will be also at Olympics) was giving +3 at random to Tarasova/Morozov and not to James/Cipres. In return Maira Abasova gave out +3 and 10s to Padakis/Cizeron.

I loved how the Italian judge for the Olympic (Walter Toigo who once served a 2 years ban because he was caught on video looking at judge on his side marks before entering his own one) was sitting next to Kostner and Russo in K&C at Euros. He didn't sit with Cristini.

I also liked who they put Ashley Cain's father as Pairs technical specialist at Euros when Cain/LeDuc does summer camps with Mozer who has all their teams competing there.

R450 obviously Russia, France and Spain will work together for olympics. Probably with Germany too. France judges will push hard for Javier against Chen and the Japanese (poor Anthony Leroy loves Shoma tho) and for Aljona/Bruno against the Chinese. In return Spain and Germany will push P/C against V/M. Russia also wants Javier and P/C to win in exchange of team gold and probably a medal for T/M and or B/S. Canada and USA should ally and try to work with China and Japan but they are both too stupid and don't want to make compromises on which skaters to push and China and Japan usually don't try to influence the judging at all, which is kinda remarkable but also stupid of them.

So are the Shibs going to get their way and skate both parts of the Team competition?

How would they even justify this?

To be honest, I don't care if P/C are getting a little help from the judges. If anyone deserved the judges' favor, it's them. They are the team with the best programs this season, and are skating on a level no other team is. If P/C and V/M skate clean, I think P/C should win, hands down. They are taking ice dance in the right direction into a new era, in my opinion. I'm so over the ice gymnastics set to music, with the overdone acrobatic lifts that has come to substitute for artistry in ice dance. V/M represent that old style. P/C represent real ice dancing, that is connected to movement and music.

I want ice dancing to keep progressing in that direction, and if V/M win, I think it'll be such a regression.

Plus, we'll have be subject to V/M being anointed the "greatest of all time" BS. I couldn't stomach it.

Now if P/C make mistakes, let the chips fall where there may. But if clean, fuck it, let the the politicking sway in their favor.

R452 I think France will use Philippe Meriguet or Elisabeth Louesdon in Men. Maybe Lousdon because Philippe loves Shoma. He gave him a couple of 10s at Skate Canada. But anyway, he will do what Didier tells him to do.

Marie France has spoken: “The Spanish Federation knows about all the ugly details of Zagreb. Before Spanish Nationals, we asked them in the name of fair sport to not take the Zagreb scores into account. We got a nice email back. . .they were gonna do what’s right. They are the only ones who could do something about the selection, and they didn’t. Very disappointing.”

I suppose Hurtado knows more dirty secrets about Spanish Fed than Marie France.

R454 i don't mind the politicking for P/C either. I love them and think they deserve the gold. They also have been the leading team of the quad even with V/M coming back, going to their training base and coaches and being very helped by the judges all of last season even winning worlds with a fall. But i think we just have to be conscious that the politicking will have repercussions in the other events. I think one of the very possible victims of that could be Sui/Han, which makes me pretty sad since i love them. But what can you do.

Tbh i'm glad Hurtado is getting the spot over that whiny bitch Smart. How tragic for her, i'm sure going to the olympics for Spain was her childhood dream.

Olivia Dumb posted something yesterday that would make Ashley proud

Last week when Ashley left one of her heartbreaking messages on IG about her Olympic dream being destroyed, Olivia tagged it saying something like "I needed these words today". I was wondering why she was so depressed. And then that day the news that Khaliavin received the authorization of Russian Olympic Committee to skate for Spain at Olympics came out.

I mean, Olivia, if you are convinced they rigged the Golden Spin for H/K, don't you think that they would have given him the authorization required? It's not that they set up everything just for fun.

OK...let's talk Hubbell/Donohue. I like them...but don't love them. They have all this momentum and seem to be surging towards Korea. But they've never even been on a World or GPF podium. Are TPTB really going to give them an Olympic Bronze...giving the Montreal school a podium sweep? For all this talk about politicking, I just have a hard time seeing that happening.

I think giving the Shibs two shots at the Team Competition is less about them and more about what plays good for TV. They need to split two disciplines no matter what. Adam as the first (recognized) out athlete at the Winter Olympics, now with a bonus feud with the VPOTUS, and Mirai's triumphant comeback are stories that may generate interest and can find happy endings with a team medal. Even if Mirai and Adam falter, Nathan, Bradie, and whoever's skating for Ice Dance will get the job done and ensure U.S. probably holds on to Bronze.

Because I like to see the world burn, it would be hilarious if H/D are chosen to skate twice in Team event as national champions, and then Chock/Bates manage a surprise Bronze medal win in Ice Dance, leaving the ShibSibs! out as 2 time Olympians with no medals to show for it.

[Quote] Because I like to see the world burn, it would be hilarious if H/D are chosen to skate twice in Team event as national champions, and then Chock/Bates manage a surprise Bronze medal win in Ice Dance, leaving the ShibSibs! out as 2 time Olympians with no medals to show for it.

Please let this happen omg.

My money for bronze is actually on Chock/Bates or Bobrova. Chock/Bates have won the FD at nationals and at GPF against H/D and Shibs and like 459 said there is no way they will have team Montreal sweep. The panel at Euros sent a clear message against Bobrova in the SP but finally they were still put second so idk.

Stepanova winning the "slut of night" award for her dress at closing banquet

I think it's hard to justify leaving out H/D in the team event--not when they just beat the Shibs at Nationals and the Shib free dance has been scoring below both H/D and C/B.

Having seen H/D in person, I get what the fuss is about. They are a genuinely sexy team--and that's rare. It means, too, that there's a whole range of choreography that they could make their own--as opposed to V/M--they're the real deal. P/C have an idealistic romantic vibe going--really about as close to modern ballet as I've seen on ice. The flip side to V/M's supposed range is that they lack a distinctive personality as a team.

As for the Shibs--Fix You is probably the one time they expressed anything authentic on the ice, though I liked last year's FS--felt like it said something about what they liked about ice dancing--they are musical, just not emotional. This year they've been trying to play it safe and popular, but it's not working.

No problem if C/B take the Bronze, but I don't see it happening with that third place. Judges must hate that mermaid get-up in the short.

I'm rooting for P/C, but hope Sui/Han don't get burned as a result--they and James/Cipres are the only pairs I really like to watch. Sui has that interesting intensity when she performs, while James and Cipres have that modern edge to them.

LOL, R460/R461...I would love Chock/Bates to sneak that Bronze medal out. Hilarious. And the thing is...I like their FD a lot. (And the judges do, too, apparently.) They just need a better SD score and for some of the other teams to falter.

But the US shouldn't get too cocky over a guaranteed Team medal. It's hard to see how Russia or Canada could miss the podium...but there are several very possible scenarios that have the US out of the medals. Japan is right there...especially if they have Adam do the FS.

Yes, it's hard to justify how you leave H/D out of the Team event but then who gets left off?

The rumor after Nationals was that USFSA wanted Bradie and Mirai to skate along with Shibs and H/D... they wanted Nathan to be the one to skate both.

According to further rumors, The Shibs knowing this, set out to campaign to skate both... because they're obviously selfish bastards.

The question was supposed to be if Nathan doesn't want to skate both, what happens? They'd either have to let Bradie skate both leaving Mirai out or let the one pair skate both Ice Dances.... but how do they justify picking the Shibs for that over H/D?

I would guess that if it came down to it they would probably cut Mirai out of the team (which I think would be unfortunate). I don't think Adam deserves to skate in the Team.

The Shibs have a weak FD--it's placed behind the FDs of the other two American teams at both the GP and Nationals. So, it's really hard to justify having them skate both events. You could really only make the argument with HD, though in terms of scores it should be Shibs in the short, C/B in the free. At which point, you're cutting out the national champs . . .

Mirai's choreography is a snooze and she's erratic. Bradie may be an unknown, but she's solid and, since there's no individual medal at stake in Ladies, it's safe to use her twice.

[quote]Mirai's choreography is a snooze and she's erratic. Bradie may be an unknown, but she's solid and, since there's no individual medal at stake in Ladies, it's safe to use her twice.

Funny, I'd say Bradie is just as much of a snooze.

You're both right. Both choreo are crap

I think they want to put Mirai because of the media story. She was left out of the team in 2014 blablabla but worked hard and now she is an olympic medalist with team USA. Media needs a nice story because that team is pretty bland. I mean Nathan is kinda cool with that fake laid-back attitude and Adam is Adam but no one else really shines with their personality.

From a strategical point of view Bradie should definitely do both segments. She is much more reliable than Mirai even though as snoozy and it would also help her components a lot for the individual event. For dance i'd go Shibs for the short and H/D for the long.

The Olympics are when people who never follow figure skating tune in to watch it, and in all honesty, when they see P/C they're going to think "boring". Ice dancing for the casual viewer needs big drama because of the lack of jumps and throws. V/M have that drama and they've added to it with a more dramatic ending.

P/C and V/M are both great teams but V/M chose better music to play to the non-expert viewer IMO.

I don't know. I kind of agree with you but also P/C's free dance is the one that has gone viral on Facebook with 10+millions views from non-expert viewers. I would tend to think that the Ed Sheeran program is also the most accessible between the 2 SD.

I still think V/M are more like a hollywood blockbuster, very on the nose and with no depth. So they could have the favor of casual viewers because of a lower common denominator kinda thing but i remember when i showed P/C FD from 2016 to my friends who don't care about ice dance at all, they really loved it and said it was beautiful.

[quote]Wasn't wild about Adam making the team but good on him for spiting fire at Mike Pence. The clapback from the White House was predictably weak.

How did the White House respond to Adam?

R471 - P/C's dance routines are beautiful but I've got to stick with history on this one. Very few ice dancers get a post-amateur career bump from an OGM and stick in the minds of viewers long term unless they're Torvill and Dean. Even single skaters have a hard time of it [see Sarah Hughes]. You don't have to be the greatest skater for that, but you do have to have showmanship [see Katerina Witt].

In looking at a long-term impact, V/M have got the advantage because they've got that showmanship quality. That doesn't mean that P/C don't deserve the OGM but as Alfred Hitchcock realized, you don't have to win a top award in your chosen field to have a lasting impact with your work.

how much plastic surgery has Tara had?

Bradie may not skate with much depth, but she's got a ton of speed and fully rotated jumps. She also has her own Cinderella story to go with the Cinderella free skate, which the media can use. Mirai has her sob story and her two-footed triple axel, but not much else.

V/M have the splashy jumps, but P/C are skating to a war horse--people expect skating to be done to classical music and P/C are very pretty to watch.

I don't get the closing banquet tradition

I guess the banquet must have been fun back in the days. Apparently there are some stories involving Takahashi at banquets. All the skaters also got so collectively drunk at the worlds 2012 banquet in Nice that they got into a fight in a club with some local dudes. But now if you're famous, you must take 300 selfies with all your fan-thirsting colleagues including all the juniors and some nerdy kid like Boyang or Martinez is live-streaming everything so you can't even drunk-dance ridiculously without being all over skating twitter.

Stolbova and Bukin haven't received IOC approval

Russian Skating Association is puzzled by the news.

R478, weren't there rumors last year that Stolbova was one of the doppers?

R479 yes, I think she matched one of the descriptions in the anonymous file

Russia received a list of approved athletes yesterday. Apparently it's still provisional. So the names missing in it (like Bukin and Stolbova) may resurface in the next few days. We have to wait and see.....

Meanwhile, the ISU Vice President informs us that the Belarus judge resigned because he had a brain stroke during Golden Spin.

IOC really have to make their protocols public and explain why they ban who they ban to enter the games. Viktor Ahn or Stolbova, who are multiple medalists in Sochi seem to be banned, yet they didn't lose any of their medals from the 2014 games so it's sending contradictory messages. If they have evidence against them they should be able to strip their medals and if they don't have evidence it seems unfair they are banned.

Bukin is really strange too. He wasn't even at the Sochi games. Anton Shipulin the biathlete is also strange. He was just this weekend taking part in the mass-start. If these people really failed tests they should serve their doping suspension now, not only be banned from the games.

Anita whatever her surname is got Swedish Olympic Committee's approval

What is there to "get" about the banquet? A nice meal and a chance to dress up, socialize and relax in a pleasant environment after a grueling competition. Would you rather they all be sent straight to the airport after competing with a voucher for a sandwich?

[quote]Bradie may not skate with much depth, but she's got a ton of speed and fully rotated jumps. She also has her own Cinderella story to go with the Cinderella free skate, which the media can use. Mirai has her sob story and her two-footed triple axel, but not much else.

Mirai can land the triple axel on one foot and I think she'll pull it off at least once at the Games. She also has speed. I prefer her over Bradie who is completely forgettable to me. I hate Mirai's costumes though. I keep hoping she'll change them.

R481...the ISU process is different than the Olympic one and is happening now. It's why banned spedskaters like Olga Fatkulina (love that name!) are still competing and she's banned for life from the IOC. Assume it's the same for Biathlon and other sports.

I learned that from sexy Olympic Gold Medalist and NBC commentator Joey Cheek.

IOC put out a statement saying that not being included in the approved list doesn't mean you are doped just that they can't be 100% sure you are clean

R484, Saw both Bradie and Mirai skate at Nationals, so I was able to watch them simultaneously during the warm-ups--Bradie's faster with faster jumps, though Mirai's are higher. Mirai gets the triple axels, but not that cleanly and two-footed at Nationals. And there is no choreography between jumps. She was once a charming skater, but now she's a boring one with a lot of fan loyalty. She'd be amazing if she were 16 with room to develop, but she's 24 and, artistically, skates like a junior.

Yeah, R487, I'm aware. I still prefer her over Bradie.

4CC started already? Feels so weird to have skating on a Tuesday (I know it's Wed. in Taiwan), especially since Euros just ended. Can't say I care much about anyone competing there this year, especially without the Chinese pairs.

Is Ashley competing?

It will be interesting to see how the second-tier Americans do in ice dance Wonder if the Japanese Ladies will sweep. How much will Uno win by?

Okay, that's it for the 4CC.

Is it just me or is Meghan looking dykier than ever?

Anybody have any footage from the archives of Allison Janney pursuing her 'Figure Skating' dream?

R493... oddly enough she's told three different stories as to why she quit. 1) she got too tall 2) she got injured on the ice 3) she got injured playing a party game where she went through a glass sliding door.

Maybe she's been spending too much time around Tonya!

PAIRS was quite good at 4CCs (given the field)

1 Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc (USA) 66.76 PB

2 Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya/Harley Windsor (Australia) 66.45

3 Tarah Kayne/Danny O'Shea (USA) 65.74 PB

4 Tae Ok Ryom/Ju Sik Kim (North Korea) 65.25 PB

5 Lubov Ilyushechkina/Dylan Moscovitch (Canada) 64.50

6 Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay (USA) 60.93 PB

7 Miu Suzaki/Ryuichi Kihara(Japana) 56.95 PB

8 Sydney Kolodziej/Maxime Deschamps (Canada) 56.18 PB

9 Camille Ruest/Andrew Wolfe (Canada) 54.70 PB

10 Riku Miura/Shoya Ichihashi (Japan) 44.25

Short Dance

1 Hawayek/Baker (Usa) 69.08

2 Muramoto/Reed (Japan) 65.27

3 Soucisse/Firus (Canada) 65.11

4 McNamara/Carpenter (USA) 62.83

5 Wang/Liu (China) 62.36

6 Parsons/Parsons (Usa) 60.18

7 Min/Gamelin (South Korea) 60.11

8 Sales/Wamsteeker (Canada) 57.21

9 Arnold Williams (Canada) 52.50

10 Komatsubara/Koleto (Japan)52.45

Has an Asian team ever won a medal at 4CCs in Ice Dance?

Parsons/Parsons may need to break up. They screwed up this time, but even when they're clean, they're not getting much judge love.

Hawayek can't afford to gain a pound, Baker's not a big guy--she's short enough, but tends to look wider than him if the costuming's not right.

Ladies at 4CCs

1) Satoko Miyahara 71.74

2) Sakamoto 71.34

3) Miahara 69,84

4) Bell 62.90

5) Choi 62.30

6) Kim 61.35

7) Andrews 60.61

8) Chartrand 59.86

9) Angela Wang 58.97

10) Li 57.01

Is no one on DL up to date with javi's love life? He apparently has a new girlfriend, called Marina. She might be Spanish. I have no idea when he broke up with Miki.

Watched the 4CC Ice Dance. The Parsons and McNamara/Carpenter just look so junior and clunky. Hard to see them ever being real contenders. These teams aren't much younger than Papadakis/Cizeron. (Michael is a year younger than Guillaume.) Compare P/C's Mozart from 3+ years ago (when P/C were still teenagers) to what these teams are doing and it becomes less than impressive. Compare the new American teams to Chock/Bates and it becomes concerning. Chock/Bates were winning Grand Prix medals with their previous partners when they were the age of these young teams.

No wonder none of the Top 3 American teams are talking retirement. The only team knocking on their door is Hawayek/Baker. US Ice Dance would be much better off if all three teams stay and battle it out over the next few years. That at least provides quality and drama.

"And V/M can't go back to their young lovers shtick because P/C own that style in spades. No way were they going to beat the French at what they do best, which I think is why they chose Moulin Rouge. Even though it's a tacky mess, it's big and flashy, and highlights their skills as athletes--which is all they can really do when compared against P/C's sublime artistry and movement."

"I think P/C should win, hands down. They are taking ice dance in the right direction into a new era, in my opinion. I'm so over the ice gymnastics set to music, with the overdone acrobatic lifts that has come to substitute for artistry in ice dance. V/M represent that old style. P/C represent real ice dancing, that is connected to movement and music.

I want ice dancing to keep progressing in that direction, and if V/M win, I think it'll be such a regression.

Plus, we'll have be subject to V/M being anointed the "greatest of all time" BS. I couldn't stomach it."

"When Kurt Browning and Carol Lane were talking after P/C performed Moonlight Sonata at the GPF...Kurt said that V/M were the better team because they were more versatile. That V/M could skate Moonlight Sonata but P/C couldn't skate Moulin Rouge. But I think that's bullshit. With the exception of the pussy eating lift, what is there that P/C would be unable to do? Do they really think that P/C are unable to tango? Or is it another thinly veiled slam that P/C are unable to convey heterosexual passion like Canada's Sweethearts?"

I.... just.... can't with these posts above... Who is this delusional P/C stan????

Before you accuse me of being a V/M uber or whatever term, I do think MR is not a great program (I've not rewatched it too many times this season, whereas I've worn out the replay button on Moonlight Sonata ), but V/M have been more versatile; and they did lyrical with Mahler before. No, they are not artistses the same way P/C are, but they do not have the same *style*. P/C have a way more introspective style, whereas V/M is more accessible. You don't like it fine, but it's rather ridiculous to say V/M can't do lyrical programs.

Do not think P/C could sell something like Carmen or Tango frankly. To Build a Home and Mozart were gorgeous, but they are not stylistically too different. Beautiful, but not too different no. I hope they do something drastically different next year to set that impression aside.

Also, speaking of actual technical skills, Tessa still has stronger skating skills than Gabby does. P/C have way simpler lifts, which are still Level 4???

There is definitely politiking going and V/M WILL lose the gold medal if both skate cleanly, because of it. Well, that and their program is really not in P/C league.

What is your problem, R501? I wrote R439 that had the quote about Kurt Browning and Carol Lane dissing P/C's versatility. And I stand behind what I said. Except for the acrobatic lifts, there is nothing in that program that P/C couldn't do. Would they be as laser sharp as V/M? Maybe not. But I would counter that V/M have not proven that they can be the emotional and artistic skaters that P/C are.

You can say you're not a V/M uber...you can say how much you love Moonlight Sonata and can't really get into Moulin Rouge...but your spastic ramblings reveal exactly what you are. Not as versatile...(check)..."easy" low lifts...(check)...Tessa's a better skater than Gabriella...(check).

Go pour yourself a drink...watch Mahler or Hip Hip Chin Chin for the 10,000th time...and take your tweezers and beat off a good one dreaming of V/M and their superior accessibility and versatility.

R502, they have done emotional and artistic in Mahler. If you don't see it as emotional, well, I can't help you. We get it, you don't like how they do artistic. but they have done it. It's just not your cup of tea.

P/C don't do sexy. They don't need to. It's not their thing. So no, I don't see them doing anything similar to MR.

Care to refute anything I've said instead of calling it spastic ramblings? Where was Carol Lane wrong in dissing P/C for their lack of versatility... can you tell me how versatile their FD's have been for the last 3 years? No? OK. They haven't shown what else they can do. I am not saying they can't do period. But it's hard to see.

As for the technical skills comment, I don't think there was anything uber-ish about that coment. Tessa being a stronger skater than Gabriella isn't exactly an urban myth? They do have simpler lifts. You can't see it? I don't know why, because it's not like they could do not more complicated ones.

I am not saying V/M are the best thing since sliced bread or can do what P/C do so well, but calling them ice gymnasts and not capable of being artistic is rather ....delusional.

I'm not the P/C fan who's quoted, but we've agreed with each other more than once. There's not just one P/C stan here, but more than one of us who aren't impressed with Virtue/Moir. I think they peaked back with the Mahler and haven't gone anywhere artistically since. It's fine to say P/C couldn't do Moulin Rouge.

But neither can Virtue/Moir.

It's an athletically impressive program, but it doesn't work artistically--that's part of why they keep monkeying with it--it doesn't work as storytelling/character exposition. V/M have tried over and over to be a sexy team (see the last Olympics), but they're not--I'd say the only time they pulled off the vixen thing was with the SD to Prince--and they can thank Prince for that.

You want a sexy team, watch Hubbell/Donohue.

I'm not saying you have to be impressed, but some of those quotes were a little ridiculous, saying V/M are only athletic skaters or something like that. Or saying that Carol Lane's criticism of P/C lack of versatility is BS. MR is a mass appeal program, I don't like it much either.

I think Carmen was sexy; it's a far superior program to Moulin Rouge, although not highly thought of by judges either in 2013.

Some have said Hubbell/Donohiue tried too hard to be sexy with that FD, R504. If you want sexy, watch Fournier-Beaudry and Sorensen FD or Hurtado and Diaz. Or Hurtado and Khaliavin.

Maybe my Canadian teammates got it wrong that to be sexy ice dancers is to present a sexual intercourse like program on ice. This could explain why people find them annoying and lack of versatility. Oh yes, plus their super fake orgasm faces during the programs (Wtf?! Do they think this could add up their non-existing sexiness?!

R506, shouldn't you be whining on Twitter about Hurtado/Khaliavin getting sent to the Olympics? ;)

I am a different poster than the two self-identified above who has been quite critical of Moulin Rouge (I'm the one that thinks its going to win, though). I agree with r504 and their prior points. MR is acrobatically impressive, and its not that its "not lyrical", it's that it isn't self-consistent that bothers me. I honestly believe D/W Sheherazade is the best Free Dance ever performed give or take Bolero, and I don't think it was particularly emotional. I thought it was quite... kids in a barn putting on a show version of 1001 Nights, and yet it still works like gangbusters. I'm totally fine with many types of artistic expression in Ice Dancing. I don't think the Shibs are particularly great and are definitely not versatile, but I think both their MJ routine and Coldplay routine are... fine in terms of TYPE of artistic expression (not saying anything about execution).

I don't like TV much. I agree she is more athletic and has better technical skills than Gabby, but I don't find her to be a particularly fluid or dynamic skater. I feel like often its the tricks that are doing the work to create levels. If somebody wanted to make a case for Moir being the greatest of all time, I would listen to the argument (I wouldn't agree, but I think its a fair position to start from).

Lastly - I just think the 'versatility' argument IS bullshit. If versatility were a requirement for Olympic gold, then Ice Dancing should require a 1 minute 30 second routine in each of 10 different styles. It doesn't. It should be considered on the strength of that year's performances.

Also - I think P/C could definitely do a great tango. Something like Tanguera would absolutely be in their wheelhouse.

1) Hawayek/Baker 174.29

2) Soucisse/Firus 164.96

3) Muramato/Reed 163.86

4) McNamara/Carpenter 160.12

5) Wang/Liu 158.21

6) Parsons/Parsons 155.30

7) Min/Gamelin 151.38

So we witnessed

Asia winning a medal in Ice Dance

a member of the Reed famialy winning a medal

I think the judges are leaning toward P/C getting gold if each skates clean, but that's a big "if".

I saw H/D's free dance in person--it's genuinely sexy and they have genuine chemistry--even more in person than on TV. Madison's height, though, probably limits some the kinds of lifts they can do.

I'm with R508 re: Scheherezade--it's exhilerating to watch--but the chemistry between Davis and White is all-American good kids dressing up. I don't think ice dance pairs need to be sexy, but I think they need to have a connection. D/W seemed to be on the same wave length. Ironically, I think Chock/Bates, who are a couple, have a problem matching their performance energy.

P/C have a connection--they remind me a lot of ballet dancers where they seem intent on creating a mood and a moment. It doesn't hurt that they look really, really good together.

With Virtue/Moir, it's partly a sense that they've stayed too long at the fair. This is their third Olympics and while they can do some new lifts, they're not innovative the way Torvill and Dean were--that was a pair with extraordinary range.

So Deniss posted an IG story in front of some cafe called Le Chat Rouge, making fun of Lambiel's iconic Red Cat program.

How red do you think his tight little derrière got after tonight's spanking?

R504 I think Chock/Bates definitely have chemistry. Watch their exhibition this year.

I think Cock/Bates have chemistry but they are fighting it with that shibutaniesque FD about world peace that they do

R508 never said anything about versatility having to determine who should win gold, but it's a valid criticism of P/C style, and it is a factor when you are evaluating greatness/ overall impact of a team.

Sheherezade is technically impressive and crazy athletic, but ultimately a bit generic. I also can't get over Meryl's unattractive leg line in some of the movements.

Boyang over 100 in SP at 4CCs

With I/B gone we now have 2 pairs of serious uggos for Russian ice dance. What's the point of ugly ice dancers? I have the same feeling about the Mcnamara/Carpenter pair.

Men at 4CCs

1) Shoma 100.49

2) Boyang 100.17

3) Tanaka 90.68

4) Brown 89,78

5) Han 84.74

6) Aaron 84.15

7) Nguyen 84.09

8) Ge 82.27

9) Kerry 79.57

10) Mura 76.66

R516 who are I/B

R518, maybe Ivan Bukin is meant?

That is not correct, R514. That is your opinion. Not everyone thinks that P/C are not versatile. Not everyone thinks that versatility is what should define greatness in an Ice Dance team.

The problem is that V/M fans and all others who are criticizing P/C on this issue are acting like their subjective opinions are fact. Finding P/C not versatile is comparable to many of us finding V/M not artistic. And yet, the versatility proponents believe that their opinion of P/C's skating is an irrefutable absolute truth...while our opinion of V/M's artistry is just a matter of personal taste.

You can think that P/C skate the same FD over and over. That is your right. That is your opinion. We don't have to agree.

R502/R520 please explain ***objectively*** how P/C are versatile, and how it's subjective that their FDs use the same type of lyrical flowing music that suits their style.? Where exactly have they demonstrated versatility? You are all up in arms over Carol Lane calling V/M more versatile like she is spewing some ****, but you can't actually dispute it?

V/M (whether you think they have been successful or not) have tried to skate different music types in their programs.

For the record, I don't think P/C have skated the absolute same FD. I can differentiate between Moonlight Sonata and To Build a Home. Both are beautiful, but it *is* similar style. It's a valid criticism.

Shouldn't we discuss Shoma's new costume instead of P/C vs V/M?

Looks great, R522

do you think Dany G is Eteri's boytoy? I thought he was gay but now i doubt

R524, I think he has/d a GF

What is versatility, R521? Is it skating to different types of music? Or showing different types of movement?

When criticizing P/C, why are we only talking about their FDs from Mozart to Moonlight? Why are their SDs being ignored? Are you saying that their Ed Sheeran...their Lindy Hop...and their Pasodoble are just like their FDs? Why are we ignoring their career before the move to Montreal?

Why is no other team being held to this standard of versatility? Well, we know the answer to that one. They are the only team keeping V/M from that Olympic Gold.

But what you still aren't understanding, R521, is that my main disagreement with Carol Lane and Kurt Browning isn't that they think V/M are more versatile than P/C...that's their opinion and they're welcome to it...it's that they use that to claim that V/M are the better team. Your claims of versatility are just as subjective as my claims of artistry. You think that you're dealing in facts...and I'm voicing opinions...but we are both just voicing our preferences based on what is important to us.

But, just for your viewing pleasure, I'm including some videos of P/C that you may not have seen...since they fall out of the four program sample you are using to judge their career.

So classical...just like Moonlight Sonata...

Is Asslee Wagner at FC?

P/C's weakness has been the short, but not this season--and their Latin short hardly falls into the adagio/lyrical style. Their exhibition last year was a bit disco Eurotrash--and they look perfectly comfortable doing it--particularly Guillaume.

I think the "lack of versatility" is code for Guillaume being too graceful and not macho. Hell, we know it is, because the Canadian commentators have pretty much said so at other times.

There are lots of reasons to like Virtue/Moir--if they win gold, I won't feel that they've stolen it--but, like every other team, they have their limitations. The Canadian parochialism gets old. At least the rabid P/C fans generally babble in French.

r529 agreed (and I don't know if you are r526 or not but agreed with that post as well.

Saying V/M are the GOAT is a fine opinion to have (I disagree pretty strongly, although I think there is a solid argument for M being the all time MVP), but what I don't get is why people who are all in on V/M raise ad hoc arguments as to why P/C are a lesser team. And I absolutely agree - 'versatility' here is coded language for gay just as 'able to skate to Springsteen' is coded language for straight and its fucking bananas that not only are commentators using coded language, they are using it to define what "skating should be" and that is some 1940's gender-norm white middle class bullshit.

Everyone should be welcome to a style of skating as long as they are successfully interpreting and expressing the music be it P/C's Moonlight Sonata or Jimmy Ma's Turn Down for What.

R525, it's both.

Don't understand the point of you including SDs, as these are always different every year and done to different required music beats. And I think P/C short this season is terrible (who though Ed Sheeran to a Latin beat was a good idea?), so if you are using it as an example of versatility.... well I'm not convinced, and yes, it's my opinion. Apart from the hideous music choice, it never looks comfortable and just comes across as "trying too hard". I prefer last year's SD from P/C if anything.

The 2013 FD is definitely different than their recent work , I'll give you that. But that's 1 FD before P/C really became the team that they are today. Why not bring up their junior level dance programs? It's been 4 years since then, and all their programs since then have been in the same vein.I still don't understand why you have a problem when someone thinks V/M are a better team because of "versatility"...

I find the claim that V/M fans raise "ad hoc arguments" as to why P/C are a lesser team (ok well maybe on the infamous Jessica Dube loves Scott Moir blog that is full of crazies ) a little funny when we get gems like

"I think P/C should win, hands down. They are taking ice dance in the right direction into a new era, in my opinion. I'm so over the ice gymnastics set to music, with the overdone acrobatic lifts that has come to substitute for artistry in ice dance. V/M represent that old style. P/C represent real ice dancing, that is connected to movement and music."???

I think V/M are a better team personally not because of anything to do with versatility, but because they are more evenly matched as a team in terms of "skating skills", and they do more difficult things out there. Gabby is a great skater, but I'm still finding that Guillaume is the star of this team . Anyways, I think I'm done with discussing this, as there are more interesting things to talk about - like the IOC announcement on Sunday.

Méité is the French selection in Ladies.

Sweden have officially given up the Men spot to Philippines.

Russia say they will take 169 athletes to PyeongChang. They are still fighting for some. Stepanova/Bukin are leaving for the training camp in Japan but Tiffany/Jonathan have also been put on the airplain. As things stand, it's Zagorski/Guerreiro and Astakhova/Rogonov in the 169 names list. They also said they won't replace non invited athletes but it may be that they are not referring to skating but to other sports where almost all the A team has been barred.

R531, you my not like P/C's short dance, but the judges do--so clearly it's seen as working. And, no, last year their short dance didn't and cost them the World Championship. I find it more memorable than V/M's current short dance, which seems to me a less-effective attempt to recreate the frisson of their Prince SD (which I did think was outstanding.)

Given that they're a young team and there are only two programs a year, I think using their junior programs to demonstrate their versatility is legitimate. And, no, I'm not the poster who did that. I'm R529.

And, yes, it's clear you prefer V/M. I agree Scott and Tess have similar skating skills, though I think they're physically a bit mismatched--Scott's a little short for Tessa. I also find his dance moves when he tries to rock and roll a bit sloppy.

The judges may like lots of things,.They also give Zagitova PCS in the 9.0s. To me , it looks very forced and they never should have picked Ed Sheeran to latin beat, but you probably think the same for V/M SD.. Let's not pretend judging is a completely accurate representation of what works great and what doesn't.

It's not that simple. It's not that I prefer V/M. I just thought the above comments that" P/C are "real artistes" who are bringing an esthetic to ice dance , and that V/M can only do acrobatic lifts and tacky programs" arrogant, so I decided to comment.

I just love Misha Ge's skating

everyone loves that guy. i don't get it.

Why not, R536?

Can you cunts leave the V/M vs P/C to the fat fraus of GoldenSkate? Jesus christ!

Meryl would neva use the word "frau"

Oh fine, Meryl. Let's discuss my green catsuit then.

Well, I'll take that from you, Meryl...because it takes a cunt to know a cunt.

(OK...one last aside to the comment about coded language...did any of you watch the FCC Ice Dance when Ben Agostso made that comment about some Ice Dance couple and how they really nailed the Man/Woman dynamic? Ugh...Really, queen?)

So, let's talk about the Russians and how the potential IOC ruling will affect the Team competition. If Stolbova and Bukin are out...that is unfortunate, but salvageable. T/M can save the day with their ugly, boring skating. But...what is the deal with Bobrova? If they're out, too...that makes the Team event very interesting. It doesn't fuck up Russia so much...but it does add a wrinkle to the Japan/Italy/France/China race for the final round.

The Pairs short will be very, very interesting. That seems like the event where politics can play a part. Where do James/Cipres get placed?

If I'm Russia and I want Team Gold...I want Japan and France in the final. If I'm Canada/The US...I'd want Italy and France. Could France actually make the final with two shitty singles skaters?

And, R540, the final touch to that unfortunate outfit was the dark armpit hair she missed while shaving. You're in HD, girl...in an Olympic year. Do better.

I wonder if Grindr will crash in Korea like it did in Brazil. The only problem with the Winter Olympics is that everyone is so covered up all the time except in Figure Skating that it's hard to really comment on what's important: how hot everyone is. As far as the US delegation goes, the only two people I'm familiar with outside of Figure Skating are Gus Kenworthy (if we're going to take it or leave it, I'd leave it) and JR Celski of short track who is a hot little thing but has ugly tats.

I think Shoma looks great in the new outfit. I wish Hanyu would get better costumes. Didn't he let Johnny Weir design his Sochi Free Skate outfit?

R541 Russia Olympic Committee say Bobrova is in the approved list they received

Kayne/O'Shea win 4 Continents.

Silver to Cain/Le Duc

Bronze to the North Koreans

Sakamoto wins 4CCs in a Japanese podium sweep. Mihara ahead of the Queen of URs Miyahara.

I would have put Mihara 1st because that Amelie program by Sakamoto really is dreadful. But it's true her jumps are fantastic.

The Amelie FS is choregraphed by Benoit Richaud, right? He produced some , let't say, less than stellar programs this year. The voidy Cindarella thing for Tennell is done by him. And the messy Chicago FD of Loboda/Drodz also.

Though I think Bruno Massot is way hot...I am total Team Sui/Han (and think he's hot, too.)

Don't understand a fucking thing they're saying, but they are killing me in this video. Her eye-rolls. The way he makes fun of her but still defers to her. So...a total brother/sister relationship...no sexual tension...his willingness to let her be the boss...

He's gay, right?

Love that Sui/Han interview--they're hilarious--Tigger and Spider. They're like an ice dance team but with lifts and throws. Hope they win OGM.

R537 I just find him incredibly boring and uninteresting on the ice yet so many people adore him. His programs are not inventive or even just memorable choreographically and his interpretation is contained until the last 30 seconds where he then overdramatically emotes during his step sequence . His skating skills are nothing to write about either. Yeah he tends to skate clean, good for him. His work as a choreographer for other skaters really isn't good either from what we've seen this year.

R547 wow I didn't know Richaud did the Chicago program... well all things considered Amelie is a masterpiece compared to that one.

Richaud has lots of work who made to the Olympics

both SP and FS of Sakamato (Moonlight Sonata and Amelie)

both SP and FS of Ivett Toth (AC/DC and Carmen)

FS of Bradie Tennell (Cinderella)

both SP and FS of Méité (Beyonce and Chopin/some random French song)

FS of Besseghier (Godfather)

FS of Brezina (Human/Stand by Me)

I see. Only quality programs hey

R550 who do you like then

R553 my favourite skater was Takahashi. I like Uno, Chen, Hanyu, Kolyada, Aliev, Fernandez, Ten, Jin, Han Yan, Vasiljevs, Samohin... a lot of them actually. Depends of the program and perf. Ge, i'm just not into at all.

Shiblings on IG live doing an Icebreakers taste test

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Shibs may be releasing a makeup video by Maia, hope I can learn to do something other than a red lip!

Alex is trying desperately to look cool

Leaving aside the emotional breakdown at the end...why the hell is this guy wearing flash colored gloves? what's the point?

Meryl??? She was unwatchable. How did she even make it that far in skating?

R550, I can appreciate Ge's over-emotive choreography not being everyone's cup of tea and it can be a bit much, but I can't agree that his interperetation is contained in the last 30 secs only... he interprets the music from the start of the program... I think he actually tries to listen to the music and extends his body in relation to it.

Takahashi is my all-time favorite skater as well. I think his artistry is unmatched.

R550, I can appreciate that not everyone likes Ge over-emoting choreography (it can be a bit much), but I would not agree that he only spends the last 30 secs interpreting the music. He does it from the start of the program; I appreciate the way he extends his arms and legs to accentuate the music.

Takakashi is my all time fave male skater as well. Don't think anyone comes anywhere near close to his artistry.

Takahashi was the shit. He was a genuinely beautiful skater, he moves so wonderfully. If could have just had reliable quads and stayed injury free he would have been unstoppable. I'm a bit sad he wasn't able to go out high with a bronze in Sochi. Has anyone seen him on Love on the Floor? It's this live dance show type of thing produced by Cheryl Burke of American Dancing with the Stars, starring Dai, Cheryl Meryl & Charlie and Kristi Yamaguchi. No surprise Dai is a very good dancer as well.

Ooops, double post there

Am I out of the loop, or has the silence on Hanyu's status been deafening?

If you're out of the loop, so am I R564, because I agree.

I love Takahashi...I still think he's the best men's skater from Japan. Hanyu is meh, though technically proficient. Though a different body type, Takahashi reminds me of Stephane Lambiel...they both have uninhibited, gypsy like skating qualities. I adored Stephane's skating.

Shoma's got an endless supply of ugly velvet deep v-neck costumes. What's the point of changing them when they all look the same?

Boyang is healthy again. Shoma beaten at 4CCs

1) Boyang 300.95

2) Uno 297.94

3) Brown 269.22

4) Tanaka 260.31

5) Aaron 255.45

6) Ge 248.96

7) Reynolds 241.50

8) Balde 238.20

9) Nguyen 237.52

10) Han 227.93

11) Mura 225.41

12) Kerry 219.95

13) Lee 211.86

14) Ten 210.82

15) Yee 197.68

Glad Reynolds and Balde had decent performances. I assume it was their last outing before retirement from competitive skating.

I forgot Grant......11th 226.39

Jesus, so many quads from Boyang.

Nathlie Pechalat has resigned from ISU Ice Dance Technical Committee because "a potential conflict of interest situation related to her double function as Figure Skating media consultant".

Since she was already doing TV commentary at the time of her appointment to the Committee, I wonder what's the issue now.

Well at least Jason fought back to a decent international finish. I haven't been a fan since 2014, but it's nice to see somebody have a couple of decent skates after a notably bad nationals.

R572 I wonder if the head of the Canadian federation will resign as a judge then. The conflict of interest would be more blatant some might say.

Considering how shameless certain Canadians in figure skating could be, I don't think this patriotic lady would resign even if she had a brain stroke.

Towards the end of 4CCs gala they had a power outrage

Ashley: "thankfully I didn't go to this shitty event where they don't even have the money for electricity"

The performance of Kevin Reynolds, so emotional, I loved it ! It's a nice start to retirement

So Ten looks like shit, what happened to him being the next big thing?

Olympic Athletes of Russia invited by IOC:

Evgenia Medvedeva

Alina Zagitova

Maria Sotskova

Mikhail Kolyada

Dmitry Aliev

Vladimir Morozov/Evgenia Tarasova

Alexei Rogonov/ Christina Astakhova

Alexander Enbert/Natalia Zabiako

Dmitry Soloviev/Ekaterina Bobrova

Jonathan Guerreiro/Tiffany Zagorski

r578 Who was calling for him to be the next big thing? He already has an Olympic Bronze and is 24. I think everyone knows he has peaked. He used to be rather cute (although never sexy), but not much anymore. Apparently he's quite homophobic, but that might be Kazakhstan cultural thing.

Jason went back to his "Scent of Love" program for 4CC.

If Jason had skated this performance at Nationals, he would be going to the Olympics.

R581, I wish he had kept Inner Love; it was a beautiful program

r581 Good good good for Jason. Showing a lot of class to return from a bad Nationals to attend 4CC. Makes you wish all US skaters had that type of sportsmanship...

The shaaaaaaade, Mirai, the shaaaaade

At least Ashley is an Olympian!

Can't get over how homely Jason is...

Yes sister! You tell 'em! r585. SISTER LOVE! Hope you one day are a medalist too.

We hope someday you're a medalist too, Ashley, at R587. A real medalist.

[quote]Olympic Athletes of Russia invited by IOC:

What was the point of banning Russia if their athletes are still allowed to compete?

Anyone seen my razor? It was next to my medal.

Shoma looks so gross to me...that greasy hair, those sparkly v-necks...blecch! His jumps look horrid and he interprets every piece of music the same way. I really don't get his appeal at all.

[R584] What did she say?

R592 I'm pretty sure R584 was referring to R583

r581 Nobody will be Dai, but I don't think Shoma is "gross". There's a commenter here who is obsessed with how ugly Shoma is, and I think that's such an overblown reaction. I think he's not much to look at, but his look doesn't offend me.

I do think Keiji is kind of cute. He has a really strange face, but it works for him. It's interesting that he's listed as half an inch shorter than Hanyu, because he looks longer and leaner.

Link to new thread when this one maxes out.

If you had an Asian fetish which skater would y'all find attractive? Hanyu is classical anime style Japanese but Chen is very handsome Chinese.

Patrick not getting the flat Asian ass gene makes up for that face

R596 I like Tanaka. I find Chen quite ugly (ok, ugly is maybe too strong). Yan Han is also fine when he gets a decent hairstyle (so not in many occasions), he gives me the impression of someone who knows how to have fun. For all the asses of this world, I can't past Chan's face. Uno is a doll. Cha is too androgynous anime looking.

R596 that cutie pie Mervin Tran

[quote]Patrick not getting the flat Asian ass gene makes up for that face

Yeah, Patrick Chan may be a douche, but he does have a nice ass.