Call Me By Your Name does NOT look like a kid hugging his father! (Part 16)

If there is one thing that is clear, it's that Aciman purposely left it for the reader to interpret what they thought Oliver and Elio's true sexuality outside of their relationship was.

Hence Eliio does not mention which gender he's been sleeping with in those intervening years and the vagueness of the ending.

It was painfully boring. Not very erotic and kinda creepy. I was stunned given how much attention DL has given it.

Exactly. He purposely leaves Elio's ending gender-less.

He purposely establishes there is pressure that might be forcing Oliver into this marriage (my father would ship me off to a conversion camp).

His intent to leave it vague is very clear.

I'm not that concerned with the now clear bisexualism; there is something in the kissing scenes that bug me, the lack of tongue. Countless posts have gone on about he lack of dong (which is understandable) but the lack of tongue is unpardonable

[QUOTE]it's that Aciman purposely left it for the reader to interpret what they thought Oliver and Elio's true sexuality outside of their relationship was.

Problem with that is previous threads have shown we have a number of posters here who need everything spoon-fed to them.

I liked it a lot more than I expected. And I think Timmie deserves the Oscar (Please, do not give it to that Churchill impersonation....)

I thought it was very well done.

So, what clips do we think should be used for the big award shows? I half expect Sony to use clips of Elio and Marzia and Oliver and Chiara.

I've done a complete 180 with this movie. Left me completely cold the first time I saw it. Now, after having seen it for the fourth time, the romance thing completely disappeared and I don't even see it as a gay movie anymore but as a nature documentary of sorts. I love all the things that are happening not with but around the main characters and especially the scenes those two are not in. It's like an overflowing goblet of the most delicious elixir of life.

The DP sounds kind of a douche in the interviews but damn does he (and his colourist) know his stuff. I couldn't be more in love with a movie and I feel more rejuvenated down to my bones every time I see it. But again, I've no interest in the main plot so I won't be reading the book anytime soon.

[quote]So, what clips do we think should be used for the big award shows?

Their confrontation around the fountain seems like an obvious candidate.

I really liked it, but I could have done without the father's speech near the end. Talk about playing the subtext on the top.

R9, you didn’t like a movie so you saw it three more times?!

[QUOTE]What a pit that Arme Hammer looks 20 years older than the very young LOOKING Timothee Chalamet.

[QUOTE]Has the director explained why he chose 2 actors who look so massively different in terms of age.

Probably because they’re amazing actors?

R4...

R13 I wouldn't call Armie an amazing actor, especially when Luca had to even showing him clips to help him play certain scenes.

R15 I suspect he did the same with Timo, but it has not been mentioned or maybe mentioned on the Armie Hammer thread

Hammer was perfectly fine in the film, but many other actors could have done the role just as well as he did.

Yeah that father's final speech was like DAMN I WISH I TOOK THAT DICK Not needed

clips used will perhaps depend on who's nominated:

Chalalmant & Sthulberg = dad's speech

Chalamant & Hammer = war memorial

Chalamant only = last phone call, closing sequence

I see tongue R4

I know it'll never be used, but I thought some of the best acting was post-peach scene, when Elio says 'I don't want you to go'. His voice crack so perfectly, I cri evertiem.

R19 I've seen some botched spellings but who is chalalmant

R21 I agree. That entire scene is perfection. Oliver being flirty and playful at first and then changing completely once he sees Elio's reaction, and Elio's breakdown. Both were great in that scene. Their voices, their bodies, their faces. Too bad it's probably not gonna be used.

The only moment when I almost cried was when Elio called his mom at the train station. It's too real.

Yes! That's another good one. When his voice breaks and then the way he cries in the car. That was so real, I got shivers.

[quote](my father would ship me off to a conversion camp).

Correctional facility, but same idea.

Omg I couldn’t believe it.

I saw this yesterday and now I'm actually considering seeing it again today. There's so much happening on a multi-sensory level that I kind of feel like I'd benefit from a second viewing. Aside from the person up-thread who has seen it four times, are there others that have seen it more than once and felt that they discovered new things?

R20 it's the only scene with a tongue and there were about 8 kisses - give or take

R29 Yes you definitely catch things on repeat viewings.

I'll be interested to see what they use for Chalamet's awards clips.

R29 I watched it twice in the cinema and have seen it several times online (will be watching in the cinema when it's out on wider release). Absolutely definitely go to watch again. I feel like I see new things I missed every single time.

R30 did you want explicit tongue sucking? What are you getting it? They kissed like normal human beings kiss.

Where are people viewing it online?

The focus on the lack of explicit sex scenes is evidence of how Hollywood has become over reliant on them, to the point where we miss them when they're not there, even when they do nothing to move the plot along and are purely for prurient interest. That goes for straight movies as well.

R35 = idiot

this is an adaptation of a sexual charged novel with explicit sexuality.

R36 = pervert -- there is plenty of eroticism in the movie and the sex scenes are erotically charged.

Pity you can't imagine that without seeing tongue or cock.

Maybe go back to watching the afternoon soaps? They're much better at spoon feeding.

I saw more than enough tongue.

The novel is famous for the semen eating scene and the shit scene and R35 blames Hollywood.

I prefer the other thread starter who adds the little quips and paragraphs. Boo, OP.

I am the other thread starter. I didn't have any material.

Everyone share their opinions on Armie and Timmy's butts now that we've all seen them.

Timothy's career will wither on the vine of indie film.

Armie has the prospect of being the go to leading man on Lifetime TV movies. Murderous husband, sensitive side piece/second husband.

Meh to both of you!

R42 I thought their butts were cute, but I expressed the opinion that Timmy could've done a few squats on an earlier thread and someone told me to die. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed it, just thought it could've been perkier if he'd done some squats.

[quote]Correctional facility, but same idea.

No, I don't think it is the same thing.

I think Oliver was saying his father would have made sure anyone who fucked his underage son went to prison. It wasn't about converting him.

Uh no it had nothing to do with being underage (which Elio isn't).

It was about correcting his sexuality.

[quote]It's like an overflowing goblet of the most delicious elixir of life.

You write like a romance novel. Dial it back a bit.

[quote]I think Oliver was saying his father would have made sure anyone who fucked his underage son went to prison. It wasn't about converting him.

Oh [bold]dear[/bold]

No, just no.

DLers do that all the time R47

So many posts read like ad copy or romance novels or both.

R33 something like this at 1:43

This is the official thread:

I'm sorry, the kid looks 14. Didn't Kevin Spacey get booted out of show business for something they're now going to hand out Oscars?

So, R50 pretty much confirmed as a frau, as only fraus seek out those kind of videos on YouTube

And no, R51, this thread came before that one

No, this is the real thread. Go talk to yourself in that other one some more.

It looks like they wanted to do a male Lolita, so they made the boy look 14, but say his age is 17.

If they wanted to make him look 14 instead of 17, they probably wouldn't have hired a 20 year old.

Don't encourage that poster r56. Just ignore rather than letting it derail.

[QUOTE]No, this is the real thread. Go talk to yourself in that other one some more.

There are nearly 40 posts in the thread and I made about five of them, you dipshit.

R58 Well why don't you post in the one that was made first instead?

What do people get out of making a second thread and trying to make everyone post in it?

This thread was made prematurely before the other one finished, so it being “made first” is meaningless. A new thread shouldn’t be made when people are still able to post in the current one. Shall I make Part 17 now and declare it the official thread? 18, too?

R61 But like why does it matter? It was made like 5 posts before the end of the last thread. Just use this one, especially because the other one is infested by a troll.

R53 you wanted a demonstration of what I was talking about. The clip is not ideal but it pretty much gives some inkling as to what I'm referring to. Some more tongue. The licking in the first kiss is alright but I was expecting some more tongue action. It seems pretty sanitized otherwise. My guess is because Luca knew the kisses would seem lame he came up with the licking

You should make a thread when one is close to being maxed, that is the logical thing to do, which is what this OP did.

Please stop this pointless, immature argument.

R60 Some people have so little in their life that being the OP of threads on an anonymous board is literally all they have going for them. R61 being a good example of that.

The threads were made four minutes within each other, so shut up over claims of it being premature - your one was created before the last thread closed too. Anyway the very fact that you tried to call your thread the "official" one means you should be mocked and your threads ignored.

I heard Timo improvised that tongue.

Did he now? Anything about Armie's reaction to it? R66

R66 Heard it where?

Just checked and it's not in the script.

So you didn't hear it anywhere, you just made it up that he improvised it?

[QUOTE]The threads were made four minutes within each other, so shut up over claims of it being premature - your one was created before the last thread closed too.

I made it at post 599, and linked to the thread at post 600. That’s the way it’s supposed to be done. This thread is an abomination. A bastard of a thread.

R71 You're weird.

I heard Luca gave the actors the freedom to improvise. He basically took multiple shots and during each shot the actors could do whatever they want. He then picked whichever satisfied him.

I would love to know the ages and genders of the posters in this thread...

R73 Yeah he said there was lots of improv. Timmy also improvised the mocking of Oliver's voice when he invites him to go into town together.

R75 So the answer is "yes I made it up".

[QUOTE]I would love to know the ages and genders of the posters in this thread...

I, the creator of the official CMBYN Thread 16, am a 56 year old male.

But how old is the creator of the unofficial CMBYN Thread 16?

This thread is hilarious, the other one has been hijacked by the pedo trolls, pretty sad. If you don-t like the film , don't watch. It's that simple

More kissing with a tiny bit more tongue

[QUOTE]a 56 year old male

You're fifty-fucking-six and you're whining about people not using your thread.

That’s because MY THREAD IS THE OFFICIAL THREAD!!

pedo trolls infest all cmbyn threads. don't feed them

Meanwhile the Armie thread is invaded by gay men who dislike the idea of Armie fucking Timothee silly. Is this really the DL? What happened to the DL - I want it back!

There are 56 year olds on the internet. Wow.

Cymbn - it sounds like a sleep disorder medicine.

I think that the film's producers have hired people to post positive shit on Datalounge about this movie to garner interest in it... because they know that pretentious queens will go to see this film like it's the second coming of Christ....

[QUOTE] gay men who dislike the idea of Armie fucking Timothee silly

There's a difference between disliking something and not believing it. Return to Tumblr if you want to live in an echo chamber.

[quote]because they know that pretentious queens will go to see this film like it's the second coming of Christ....

The gay Jews in the media love this movie. I remember one critic wet his pants because Armie Hammer's character talked about his "bubbe"... I mean please the man is an eighth Jew, and was raised fundamentalist Christian, pick your heroes better.

[quote] But I've seen you film. And you you're amazing. And I have to say this. I came in, I arrived from New York to the set and I watched him basically saying watching the scenes happen and cut we'll do it again cut we'll be doing it again and cut. And every single time it was different. Everytime, I mean, Timothee would do something different every single time which was amazing. Because, in other words, there was this you have a feeling that the actress felt free sort of to improvise every single time. And eventually you liked what you saw.

Aciman said during interview The NYC Library.

And yet, R88, he doesn't mention anything about the lick being Timothee's idea, which was the original claim.

R87 I agree with you. But also, Harper was at a Hanukkah party just before Christmas that I think was thrown by Mrs hammer. It was on her Instagram.

R86 = I eat my faeces for breakfast like the scat queen that I am, then I puke it and gobble it back

Someone on one of these threads found a gif of one of Armie's old movie kisses which was basically identical to elio & Oliver's first kiss. Wouldn't put it past Luca to have dug it up and said 'This. This is what I want'

Doesn't it seem that ANY coming of age...whatever....becomes "a hit" even if it's not that good? Dear Evan Hansen, American Beauty, Rent, Spring Awakening, Breakfast Club. They all start to become one yet win awards for the same schlock - but apparently we want more of this.....or at least the entertainment industry thinks we do.

R89 Tim contributed a few ideas that made the final cut as did Michael Stuhlbarg

R93 I don't agree. American Beauty was pretty good

American Beauty's protagonist is a middle aged man. Rent's main characters are in their 20s. These aren't coming of age stories.

R90 the Hammers don't celebrate Hannukah, they are practicing Episcopalians. Mrs H put on her cards, "Merry Christmas and Happy Everything."

Armand Hammer the 1st raised his family without religion because he himself was raised atheistically because both his parents were Communists. His grandson Michael Hammer (Armie's father) became a fundamentalist Christian when he met Armie's mother who was from a fundamentalist family from Tulsa.

R92 Possible. But Luca also said he wanted the actors not only play the characters but also express their own so that the audience could see the actors in the characters they play.

We know, given then numerous times it was mentioned, that they rehearsed rolling around in the grass kissing. Maybe once they'd gotten initial sexual tension out the way they managed to slow it down to some licking first.

I doubt you get the 'sexual tension out of the way' that easily with the likes of someone like Armie.

The following was from one of the last posts in the previous thread, which I just got done reading. I apologize in advance if it seems a bit random.

[quote]He is trying to beat Adrien Brody's youngest best actor record, but Adrien Brody won for playing a polish character. The academy is always impressed by things like that, ask Streep.

Brody also had the good fortune of vote splitting. Daniel Day-Lewis (GANGS OF NEW YORK) won SAG, BAFTA, and NYFCC; Jack Nicholson (ABOUT SCHMIDT) won the Golden Globe; they both tied for LAFCA and Critics' Choice. No one was expecting Brody to win.

Vote splitting, and Holocaust movies always go over well with the Academy.

Right, Brody was even more of a surprise than Chalamet would be considering Chalamet has LAFCA and NYFCC.

I love when these threads become as pathetic and stalkery as the Luke Evans frau threads.

I remember not being that surprised when Adrien Brody won; it think he'd been pegged as a dark horse for some time.

And look at Brody now.

Doing bad Marlon Brando in Godfather imitations on "Peaky Blinders"

Yes I think Brody's post-Oscar career could veer sentiment away from giving Chalamet the trophy.

Young male Oscar winners have fared better than young male Oscar nominees to be fair.

I have no idea how Adrien Brody got it. He's a horrendous actor in every way possible

Brody was great in The Pianist, it might have been a fluke but the performance stands.

But what has he done since then??................. I rest my case

Back to CMBYN -- something to remember is that the book is told from Elio's POV some 20 years after it happened, and Elio proves himself to be an unreliable narrator. Not purposefully unreliable, but everything that happens is from the POV of a lovestruck 17 year old.

IIRC, Elio never actually describes what Oliver looks like--we know he sometimes shows up at meals with his hair still wet from the shower, but do we ever get a read on Oliver's eye color, level of hirsuteness, body type, etc.?

We know he looks like an American movie star from the 80s, I was picturing something like a young Richard Gere

What are the odds that Sufjan Stevens gets nominated for an Academy Award for 'Mystery of Love' and performs it at the Oscars?

[quote]I remember not being that surprised when Adrien Brody won; it think he'd been pegged as a dark horse for some time.

When DDL and Nicholson began splitting up the precursors, yes, there were pundits wondering aloud if there could be vote splitting and which leftover nominee would it benefit: Brody, Cage (ADAPTATION), or Caine (THE QUIET AMERICAN)? Another strike against Brody was his age. Before him, no twentysomething had won for Best Actor. He remains the only one so far.

That would be insane, but it's not going to happen R114

R114 he's not superfamous so I doubt they'd let him perform if he were nominated. They've only been letting the superstars perform on the program lately.

Sufjan has a good odd to get a nomination either for Mystery of Love or Visions of Gideon.

That's not true, all song nominees performed last year. The most comparable to a Sufjan nomination would be The Moon Song by Karen O from Her and she got to perform. If Sufjan is nominated, I'd be surprised if he didn't perform.

I don't see why they wouldn't let him perform if nominated. He may not be superfamous, but he's not a total unknown either and has been around for years. 'Mystery of Love' ticks all of the right boxes (it's written for the film), it encapsulates the spirit of the film, and was used in the trailer and featured prominently in the film. I can't see how it wouldn't be nominated, much less win. If 'It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp' can win Best Song (beating out Dolly Parton), there's no reason this can't or shouldn't be a strong contender this year.

Sufjan performing and one of his songs being nominated is a pretty sure bet. Think Elliot Smith and “Miss Misery” from Good Will Hunting.

This piano cover of Mystery of Love is pretty dope.

Best sex scene in film 2017. Guess which one took the 1st place, bitches.....

Though they do call out the movie on its lack of a sex scene.

[quote]“Call Me By Your Name” has justly come in for criticism over its portrayal of the sex act — for a film that is fast becoming a landmark in LGBT cinema to only show its heterosexual sex scenes in any kind of detail is at the very least disappointingly timid. But this scene is so fearlessly performed by Timothée Chalamet that it almost compensates

The peach scene is just as detailed as any scene between Elio and Marzia.

Where were all of these complainers when they all loved Moonlight? That film features heterosexual penetration too.

Cute

That photo does Timmy no favours

R114 -- from what the various trades have been putting out, the Sufjan song is almost a shoo-in for a nomination and early favorite to win the category too.

Armor looks 38 in the photo at 126

Damn autocorrect

Hard to screencap, but did Timothée have a boner in this scene?

Nah, it's the fabric in his jeans.

R131, I thought he did too.

Why would he get a boner from kissing someone for three seconds and not in the sex scenes he has with the girl?

So disturbing!

[quote] I'm not that concerned with the now clear bisexualism; there is something in the kissing scenes that bug me, the lack of tongue.

No tongue....

R131 it definitely looks like it. Plus there's some obviously tugging and adjusting when they pull apart.

R135 , here we are defending his skinny frame. Why not draw him as an actual stickman

I have always wondered about Timmy and Esther Garrel. Those scenes they had together were juicy indeed

Some of the fanart is pretty incredible

From a purely aesthetic point of view, and I'm sure this will be an unpopular opinion, I reckon Esther had the best body on set. She was so toned!

R139 Really? I thought their chemistry was lacking, compared to the chemistry Chalamet had with all of his other co-stars.

R141 second only to Stuhlbarg. Impossibly curved, that man.

Timmy had more chemistry with Saoirse Ronan in Lady Bird during their ridiculous, comedic sex scene than her did with Garrel.

We are not talking esoteric chemistry but f-ing. Let's get real if Tim is het he must have got a boner from fondling Esther's tits and from holding that body she had. It was incredible.

Sex scenes are often very clinical when actors actually film them. There's no sign of a boner in that scene.

There was deffo boner there when I saw it in the cinema. It's easier to see when said boner is on the big screen.

In the sex scene? No there wasn't.

The boy wears tight fitting jeans because he's skinny, what do you expect.

R146, R148 keep telling yourself that

I've just rewatched it and there's 0 sign of a boner in the scene where he grabs her tits. And he's in skimpy boxers. Post screenshots if you're so sure.

It’s such a queer masterpiece that it’s coined the portmanteau “quasterpiece.”

If there was you think Luca would leave it in? You do realize there's an editing process in post-production, right?

Or maybe he's just not into Esther Garrel.

Not during the sex scene, outside afterwards when they're kissing against the wall and are interrupted by 'sonny and cher'

R153 I one million percent believe Luca would leave it in

R155 Yeah, he has the same situation going on in the video at R149 though.

No point in arguing. Post a screenshot, gif or a video.

Does it really matter? He was a 20 year old guy, of course he gets boners, both spontaneous and otherwise. If he was really into Esther then I'm sure he would have had one in the scene where he's fondling her naked body rather than the scene where he's kissing her for ten seconds before pulling away, but he doesn't.

R157 maybe he was just really excited to perform

R156 that would be exploitative. I don't think he's that bad

That OP used an anti-gay slur tells me everything to know about this film, its agenda, and its fans.

Given the mind games he seemed to be playing with Armie, I'm not sure he has particularly strict boundaries R161

He does it to Armie but not to Tim R163. Given the circumstances, Luca has been quite chivalrous toward Tim

Yeah I don't think he desired Timmy as much as he desired Armie...

[quote]Hard to screencap, but did Timothée have a boner in this scene?

I doubt Timothée had but to my understanding Elio was supposed to have one. He was tugging his cock in frustration. A thing young Italian men might do in public as well.

Just saw it.

Hated it. A sloppy, inauthentic fairy tale with no reason to be filmed, except the production team's zeal in fulfilling their fantasies. It was beautiful to watch, but another rich-people film with no conflict, no arc but a lazily self-indulgent wander, no addressing real issues - REAL issues all gay people have had to address, and more so in the 1980s than now.

Bad direction, because Chalamet had potential beyond making moony faces and gaping like the fish he mocked. Hammer could have (almost) overcome the age issue, which was serious as he looked much too mature for the story's premises, if the idiot director had worked with him and established some sort of actual character development other than encouraging brash Americanism with no close-ups in until they fuck and then close-up after close-up of his face looking blankly pensive. The female characters were not served well but at least their treatment by the twat-teasing male-libidos-active-but-gay-at-heart leads was rather true to life; the actresses were lovely.

I shudder to think what the crappy Guadagnino is going to make of his SUSPIRIA remake.

2 out of 5.

R167, have you read the novel? Oliver is deliberately left as a very vague character in the novel. I can only imagine that's why he stays so distant in the film as well.

[quote]Sex scenes are often very clinical when actors actually film them. There's no sign of a boner in that scene.

I got a boner in my sex scene. You know, the one we actually showed in my film and I was happy to do it with full frontal nudity. Cough.

[quote] Let's get real if Tim is het he must have got a boner from fondling Esther's tits and from holding that body she had. It was incredible.

This is the sort of crap that you see on the Fan Frau threads about Evans, Pace, Barnes, Hiddleston, Harold et al.

Like they really believe that the scenes are shot sequentially and the characters are having sex and there's not a fat sweaty cameraman two feet away from them shouting at the makeup woman to add more sweat beads to the brow...

R149, that was kind of weird.

R170 It also sounds like a straight man that got off on looking at Esther's body to be honest.

Speaking of fraus, the CMBYN page on A03 is filling up quickly. This sounds like a replay of the frau fetishization of gay sex on QAF.

We fetishize straight males all of the time on here.

'Here' meaning DL, not necessarily this thread.

it just gets better.

on the 3rd viewing i was so into the transformational sounds of the wind, trees, cows, chickens, splashing waters, dinner bell,.....

spellbinding.

When will the DVD be released? Ballpark, I mean.

R177, the release dates have not been announced yet.

r177, I would suspect sometime in March or April. That seemed to be the timeline for this past year's Oscar nominated films. If it doesn't win any of the big awards, then it may be released on Blu-ray sooner rather than later. I love that the turnaround time for home video is so much quicker than it used to be. In the past, it would take up to a year for a film to become available for purchase.

Here's hoping Luca will release the near 4 hours cut for special edition Blu-ray. Don't keep it for yourself Luca. Also, anyone knows why Elio's cousin was in the inverted color scene when Elio's sleeping the day before Oliver left. Seems random to me

Just getting caught up with this thread, and wanted to bring something over from the previous thread concerning the 'are they gay or bi/Aciman leaves it ambiguous' discussion:

[quote] It's been a while since I read the novel but I vaguely remember Oliver loving his wife he had kids with.

Oliver actually never says a thing about his wife that would indicate how he feels about her or what their relationship is like. We know prior to his summer with Elio that their relationship had been on and off for over two years (and it's unclear whether it was on or off during that summer). We don't know why it was on and off. They are married for at least 15 years, and have the two boys, but we have no idea if, or to what extent, she is loved by him, or how: as a woman or just as a family member he has shared nearly two decades of his life with, and with whom he has children. If we DID know more about their relationship, it would be much easier to settle the question of whether Oliver is truly bisexual, or a gay man in the closet. Which of course was Aciman's intent. On the other hand, with just a few bare mentions, Oliver's warmth for his sons comes through. But about their mother, we get nothing.

Ansel would have made a better Oliver.

Nah. Seeing Ansel come out of that taxi at the start of the movie would have been pretty anticlimactic. He's not ugly but he's just A Dude. He's visually forgettable. Armie is way hotter and has a presence that Ansel doesn't.

R182 Oliver is meant to be attractive.

R182 Fuck no!

How much truth do we think there is to this? Because it's throwing a spanner in the works for the whole 'Elio falls for another man' storyline.

The danger with a young looking Oliver, someone like Elgort, is that the film becomes a teen flick, an art house version of Teen Wolf.

Not saying that would have made a worse movie, just a very different one.

The US version of QAF did that-- found two actors who, despite the characters having about 12 years between them, looked to be about 4 or 5 years apart.

Sort of interesting to think about what that first episode would have looked like with Hammer and Chalamet in the Brian and Justin roles.

R183 true

Armie is aging quite well

I think Luca's just spinning R186

He unexpectedly has this huge hit on his hands, talks of Oscar nominations and an IP holder (Aciman) who didn't immediately shut down his "let's make lots of sequels" request.

Doesn't mean it will ever get made.

I hope it doesn't -- CMBYN is a nice fantasy piece, the sort of thing where the time and place played as large a role in everything coming together. Removing the characters from that time and place wouldn't work. would be a more banal story.

Plus you know there are fraus already hard at work writing M/M slash stories where Oliver's son and Elio's son have a passionate summer romance back at the villa in 2018. Probably with Marzia's daughter thrown in to be the frau's chubby understanding stand in.

[quote] Plus you know there are fraus already hard at work writing M/M slash stories where Oliver's son and Elio's son have a passionate summer romance back at the villa in 2018. Probably with Marzia's daughter thrown in to be the frau's chubby understanding stand in.

Don't. It's too much.

i can't get enough of this flick. i can't wait to see it again.

R187 god forbid we have a 24 year old looking character like it is in the book instead of the intergenerational love story you crave

Jesus Christ, who is this poster who keeps trying to get people to talk about Queer As Folk? No-one but fraus watched it, fucking drop it will you?

I'm not sure you know what intergenerational means R192

Well at least you're honest R194

The photo in this article reminded me of the peach scene. 'Pommie-bashing' it's more like 'peachie-screwing'

[quote]Jesus Christ, who is this poster who keeps trying to get people to talk about Queer As Folk? No-one but fraus watched it, fucking drop it will you?

Plenty of gay people watched QAF, both the UK and the US versions. It's just later become a huge thing for certain frau shippers. Say what you want about the show but the US version was probably the gayest tv show ever made. Yes it was silly at times, yes it was soapy, but it was gay through and through. I lived in a homophobic small town when the show aired and watching it, usually with a few shots of whiskey, made me feel less alone. So thanks to the production, your work really did count.

Apparently unless they show these two barebacking and fisting, some will call this movie sex negative.....jeesus.

For sure r197, Queer as Folk meant a lot to me as a little gayling at the time. Also there was more gay sex unabashedly depicted in any given episode than you will find in this movie.

I thought it was obvious right from the start that Dad was or wanted to be gay. I loved the movie and if nothing else , it made me want to go back to Italy

[quote]Apparently unless they show these two barebacking and fisting, some will call this movie sex negative.....jeesus.

Honestly Luca made it a bigger talking point than it had to be by purposely panning to the window while they are having sex, emphasizing to the audience that they aren't going to show it. He should just have just cut to the next scene.

[quote]I thought it was obvious right from the start that Dad was or wanted to be gay.

If you mean he [italic]had[/italic] wanted to be with [bold]a[/bold] man then yes but I doubt he really was or wanted to be gay. And with gay I obviously mean a man who is not bisexual or straight. He came off as Kinsey 1. He seemed perfectly happy with his wife.

What movie did you watch r202?

They emphasized in the movie that Mr. Perlman really prefers men. The scene with him and Oliver were they are looking at the "sensual" sculptures and Perlman is going on about their beauty, Hammer even gives that great look of "damn, this dude is cock-hungry!"

His speech to Elio is not of a man that is perfectly happy, but of a man who has deep regrets that he never had the bravery of his son to go for it.

R203 I don't think the statue scene was about him. More about telling Oliver that desiring men is ok, i.e. you can like my son that's fine. I don't think that look you refer to was 'damn he's cock hungry' but rather 'is this really a father who's so progressive and forward thinking? I've never experienced this before'

If that scene occurred in a vacuum I could get the argument for your interpretation, but given his speech to Elio was coming later, to me it was clearly meant to lay the groundwork about his attraction to men.

And Oliver, who is supposed to be excellent at reading people, I would think definitely picked up on that.

I didn't get the impression from the book that the father was potentially bisexual or closeted, although, like a lot of the characters in this story, there's definite ambiguity. Seeing it acted out does seem to potentially hint at that possibility more overtly and Michael Stuhlbarg may have played that as a subtext. On the other hand, I could see Elio's father simply as a stand in for Andre Aciman himself. A scholarly libertine man who is open to not limiting himself romantically or sexually, even if he ends up doing just that. Clearly Elio's parents were very open and supportive of Elio's sexuality and sexual exploration, given that somewhat startling moment when Elio announces at the breakfast table that he almost had sex with Marzia and the father nonchalantly questions why he didn't, as if any decision Elio made was fine by him.

Stulhbarg on it

[quote]In a way, Sammy’s supportive final speech is as much about revealing things about himself as it is about comforting his son.

[quote]It does suggest that. You get glimpses of the road not taken — or perhaps the road that was taken away from him. He’s content within his own family but also, as we grow to learn, he’s made some choices in his own life. He doesn’t elaborate on it, although perhaps someday maybe he will.

Didn't the daddy talk about being infatuated with a man only once? That's not being gay, that's being Kinsey 1. And yes I realize Kinsey scale feels a bit silly when talking about such a complex thing as sexuality but it's still correct to a point.

Daddy did not specify gender- the whole point.

Great film- lots of cluelessness on this thread- and I think some think they are witty and smart- not. Go back to porn and super heros and ‘action’ and effects and Twitter. Cannot teach the blind to see.

R209, well to be fair it was quite obvious he was talking about falling for a man.

Stuhlbarg in another interview

[quote]It’s very possible [that Professor Perlman was gay]. I saw him as a very passionate, loving, generous spirit. So he very likely could be, that may have been the thing that he was alluding to. I’m not sure.

What's interesting about that speech is that the father seems to allude to the fact that he settled for something less or different than what he may have desired. For all intents and purposes, the relationship between Elio's parents seems very loving and romantic, so it was an odd speech to give given what we had seen already of the parents dynamic. Elio's mother is the least fleshed out character, although, I got from the film that she has a very sort of non-fussy, French approach to parenting. She didn't leap up when Elio had a nosebleed, nor did we see her offering sage words of wisdom to comfort him through his heartsick grief, but you get that she was very perceptive about Elio and Oliver's relationship. It's also strange that the father claims that the mother didn't know about Elio and Oliver, when clearly she did. She definitely has more awareness of things than her husband realizes. How that extends to their own relationship, we'll never know.

[quote] It's also strange that the father claims that the mother didn't know about Elio and Oliver

I assumed it was her not knowing about daddy's infatuation with another man, not about Elio and Oliver.

Exactly what I was going to say.

There are two ways you can take that statement

1) Does Mom know about me and Oliver?

2) Does Mom know about [italic]you[/italic]?

The latter makes more sense to me. As I think what his father is hinting at, would be surprising to Elio.

I definitely think it can be interpreted either way. I just think that the father's notion that the mother doesn't know (either about himself or Elio) seems faulty. She probably knows a lot more than he's aware of, but again, we don't have much read on her. In fact, all of the women in this story are kind of peripheral and ancillary.

Also to make up to a post I missed the first time, Luca wants to give Elio a son?!

The one thing we do know with the flash forward is Elio has never settled down and started a family.

I know Luca is taking the story his own way now, but still, giving Elio a kid feels wrong to me.

I just hope they never make the secuel/s it already sounds like a mess.

I hope the sequel never happens either. Going by the book, we already have a good idea what happens with these characters and there's not enough source material left over from what was already filmed to make a new film out of. What we have now is a perfect first love/heartbreak story. Trying to squeeze more juice out of it will seem far-fetched and silly. I love the Before trilogy, but there's always the risk of diminishing returns and spoiling the magic of the first film by trying to replicate it over and over.

[quote]What we have now is a perfect first love/heartbreak story. Trying to squeeze more juice out of it will seem far-fetched and silly.

Agreed. LG would need to be invested in the artistic potential, not just puking out a sequel to please audiences.

r219 or himself

[quote]Sex scenes are often very clinical when actors actually film them. There's no sign of a boner in that scene.

Did the rest of the movie go over your head, too?

He -- CLEARLY -- adjusts his boner when he pulls away. It was done for comic effect.

[quote]Didn't the daddy talk about being infatuated with a man only once? That's not being gay, that's being Kinsey 1. And yes I realize Kinsey scale feels a bit silly when talking about such a complex thing as sexuality but it's still correct to a point.

And the bi-haters don't seem to get that you can be a Kinsey 5 and self-identify as gay or be monogamous with your same-sex partner. The Kinsey scale conceptually helps explain it.

I'd love to see this nominated for sound mixing and sound editing. You could "watch" this movie blindfolded and still have an exquisite sense of the mood and imagery. Also, when cock-sucking was happening.

I don't think I've seen this one before, Timothée looking like he can't stop being a male model and Armie looking like an overgrown little boy.

[quote] Timothée looking like he can't stop being a male model and Armie looking like an overgrown little boy

the roles have reversed!

MOONLIGHT director Barry Jenkins is a fan.

[quote]I didn't get the impression from the book that the father was potentially bisexual or closeted, although, like a lot of the characters in this story, there's definite ambiguity. Seeing it acted out does seem to potentially hint at that possibility more overtly and Michael Stuhlbarg may have played that as a subtext. On the other hand, I could see Elio's father simply as a stand in for Andre Aciman himself.

I DID get the impression from the book that the father was bisexual, but did not interpret it as the main point of his life lesson to Elio, but rather as you say, a subtext. His father opened a door on a side of himself that had been heretofore unknown to his son, in order to comfort and teach him. It made Elio think but it wasn't the point of what he had to say. And part of the reason I do feel that we are supposed to take that subtext from Prof. Perlman's words, besides Elio's thought 'We'd all heard about his women when he was young, but I'd never even had an inkling of anything else', is because...

BIG SPOILERS for Andre Aciman's book of interconnected short stories, Enigma Variations, for those who haven't read it: * * * The first story in the book, 'First Love', has been cited for its similarities to Call Me By Your Name. At the end of the story, the bisexual main character learns that his father had carried on a deeply felt love affair with a man over the years while married to his mother. And unlike Call Me By Your Name, there's nothing ambiguous about it. So writing stories in which a bisexual son learns his father also had a great male love is a thing for Aciman. And based on some of the things that Aciman has said in interviews, this story seems to be closer to the real events in his life that inspired Call Me By Your Name than that book's actual story. Which brings us to your idea of Elio's dad as a stand-in for Aciman himself...indeed.

[quote]I hope the sequel never happens either. Going by the book, we already have a good idea what happens with these characters and there's not enough source material left over from what was already filmed to make a new film out of. What we have now is a perfect first love/heartbreak story.

I've been all over the spectrum about the potential sequel: initially appalled, then neutral, then thinking maybe it could be interesting, and now finally back to they shouldn't go there, period. And what turned me against the idea again was the news that Luca wants Andre Aciman to collaborate with him on it, and at the very least has consulted him in order to bounce his ideas off on him and get some of Aciman's in return. One of the things fans of movie adaptations of books always tell the book readers who protest this or that change is that 'the movie is the movie and the book is the book, and nothing in the movie can change the book.' But Aciman's potential involvement in the sequel DOES have the power to change how we read the ambiguous ending he gave us for the book. If we are made privy to Aciman's head canon for his characters that he chose to hold back from the novel, that is essentially a de facto sequel to the book as well, just in another medium. And that affects our ability to imagine for ourselves how things turned out for these characters, what they were doing in such and such time period, etc. If it's going to happen, let it all be Luca's own fanfiction, as crappy as most of it sounds.

r227, that's intriguing point about 'Enigma Variations'. Aciman really is an interesting case study in and of himself. I know that he's married to a woman with whom he has kids and claims to have never had a gay relationship in his life. It makes you wonder where this all comes from within him and where he's channeling his gay/bisexual character's feelings and emotions so precisely. If the father in CMBYN is a stand-in for him, is Elio likewise a fantasy version of himself living an alternative reality to the one Aciman himself lived? Why would an ostensibly straight man spend so much of his literary canon writing about gay and bisexual themes?

aciman is elio up to the crotch grabbing. rather than going to oliver's room a midnight, the two took the "other road" and ended it there . he is also the dad, who "almost had what you and oliver had". close, but no cigar

I'd say he's also Oliver though. He dedicates the book to Albio (Elio) 'Alma de mi vida' (Cor cordium) and they're both university professors that are married with sons.

maybe, but he admitted to have a teen crush on an older guy who wore a star of david

Since the movie is set in 1983, why doesn't Elio wear briefs instead of boxers?

R233, I can only imagine they were trying to avoid too blatant vpl's.

This is why I don't get mad that in the sequel Elio will have a female partner/girlfriend because CMBYN is clearly autobiographical. Luca must know this too.

r234 They shouldn't have. That would have been essential.

R234 Because the boxers were cute and briefs would've looked comical on his skinny body.

plus in the shorts you clearly get a shot of Timmo's balls in one of the scenes. Timmo looked to be bald down there...

r237 Wouldn't it have been more realistic, though? Timothee's boxers were too saggy.

R238, you’re going to have to find a screencap after a statement like that.

You can clearly see up his shorts when he's sleeping outside and Oliver wakes him up but he has underwear on. Nice outline though.

I think the boxers were a good shout

Timothee seems comfortable masturbating on camera!

That gif though. I can almost empathize with that "Dad" looking for a Timothée Chalamet look-alike.

[quote]you’re going to have to find a screencap after a statement like that.

that particular scene(or the gif of it) was posted in the 13th/14th part of the CMBYN threads. It's the scene when Armie enters the room to a masturbating Elio. You can clearly see Elio's balls and they look bald.

Timmy balls!

[quote] that particular scene(or the gif of it) was posted in the 13th/14th part of the CMBYN threads

We have to go hunting for the balls? If someone has it, post it

R233 I was wearing boxers, and only boxers, in college in 1983, and so was everyone I knew. It's perfectly period appropriate.

Has it been discussed in one of these CMBYN threads already that Armie Hammer's own mother won't see the film because of her strong religious beliefs? Though he's not gay himself, I wonder if he gets that this is slightly analogous with those who experience rejection upon "coming out"? This is a major moment for him and it's a project that he and everyone who loves him should be proud of. The fact that he can't fully share this artistic and professional boon with his mother must be really disappointing.

R249, that is a shame.

I saw this afternoon. Subtlety powerful.

The audience was completely silent as the movie ended. And they left in silence.

I'm still thinking about it.

It's the best movie of the year, and I would say it's in the Top 5 of my life.

I remember Jonathan Groff saying his parents wouldn't watch "Looking".

I like his answer.

[quote]Aciman really is an interesting case study in and of himself. I know that he's married to a woman with whom he has kids and claims to have never had a gay relationship in his life. It makes you wonder where this all comes from within him and where he's channeling his gay/bisexual character's feelings and emotions so precisely. If the father in CMBYN is a stand-in for him, is Elio likewise a fantasy version of himself living an alternative reality to the one Aciman himself lived? Why would an ostensibly straight man spend so much of his literary canon writing about gay and bisexual themes?

I admit to having a somewhat prurient interest in the autobiographical aspects of this story, though I don't think we'll ever get any of the answers to your questions from Aciman directly. That story that I mentioned from Enigma Variations may very well have some further clues, though. And I think Aciman is ALL of them: he's Elio, Oliver and Mr Perlman too. His youth is Elio (Jewish in more than one country where it's unusual, cosmopolitan family, Italy, precocious, bookish, fell for older guy), the life he ended up living is Oliver (longtime wife, multiple sons, a life in academia on the East Coast and writer), and Perlman is where he's at now. Paul, the bisexual character around whom Enigma Variations revolves, bears some resemblance to Elio and lives the sort of life I imagine Elio might have in his adult years. So he too is Aciman.

[quote]This is why I don't get mad that in the sequel Elio will have a female partner/girlfriend because CMBYN is clearly autobiographical. Luca must know this too.

For me, from a narrative point of view, I don't find Elio with Marzia and Oliver with his wife all that riveting a premise. Just change their names to Alma and Lureen and be done with it. And I also wish it wasn't Marzia for Elio - besides the fact that he treated her so poorly the first time around, another poster put it very well: Marzia is the also-ran. One does not generally turn around and find 'intense' passion with the also-ran. It just feels off.

But ultimately - the 'in' for me with this story is the same-sex relationship between these two men, however you want to define their sexuality. I care about the characters but without that relationship I'm just less interested. I don't really care about Oliver and his wife arguing about the mortgage or poor Marzia stressing every time a hot guy walks by Elio. We are going to get a lot of that kind of stuff in the sequel (or sequels), because Luca will be trying to artificially elongate something that Aciman himself kept truncated for a reason - and without any guarantee that Luca will bring it to the same sort of point that Aciman did in the 'Ghost Spots' section of the novel, since he has said he feels no obligation to stick with that material.

I think you're completely right, r254. Aciman is likely all of the main (male) characters. I concur about the sequel. Chronicling the "straight" lives of these characters would be boring. Also, you can't discount the setting and season from this particular romance because it plays such an integral role here. Sometimes you can be attracted to/by someone in a particular locale, during a specific time of year, but take it somewhere else and it may suddenly lose a bit of magic. I guess I just can't envision a sequel for this thing that wouldn't ultimately be disappointing in some way.

[quote]however you want to define their sexuality.

Within reason. Please let's not have a hetero fanfiction sequel that amounts to two straight guys taking out their gay and dusting it off for each other, once every 40 years.

So where are Timmy’s balls?

We were promised balls

Will Timmy’s balls drop for the new year?

I took a look at the scene in question and IF you see the balls the view's not really clear.

Was just watching the “Love My Way” video. It made me realize how strategic it was for James Ivory or Luca to call out so specifically in the film that Oliver absolutely loves the Psychedelic Furs.

The lead singer and most of the band are very thin, waifish guys just like Elio. This might explain Oliver’s strong physical attraction to Elio when many DL’ers couldn’t get past thinking that Oliver would only ever want another hunk like himself. Not that Oliver can’t love the P Furs just for the music, but he’s really nuts for them and even has some dialogue with the people in the street about the lead singer being amazing, a genius, I love him, etc.

And in the last scene, Elio is dressed to very much look like the P Furs singer with the blousy, loose shirt and high waisted pants.. Even beyond the trendy fashions of the time for hip young guys, I think this was a conscious decision on the part of Elio’s character to emulate someone he knew Oliver loved and in turn maybe make Oliver love him even that much more. To me, this now makes the rejection he gets on the phone call from Oliver particularly heartbreaking.

And it illustrates the wonderful level of detail and subtle nuance in this superb film.

I thought i read sonewhere they were emulating Tears for Fears for Elio’s last scene ?

And that ‘you’re missing it’ line was maybe because that song was significant for them from earlier when they were both dancing and mking each other jealous

Funny fanart, less creepy than the last one.

Am I the only one that found elio's father way hotter and manlier than oliver and elio?

R264, manlier, yes, but not hotter.

Impossibly curved, that man. Almost as if he were daring you to desire him.

(I will keep making this joke until one person laughs)

Well someone uploaded the entire audio book. It's seven hours?

I don't think I can sit through that, but I won't lie, I want to hear Armie read the more racy passages... hehe

[quote]Also, you can't discount the setting and season from this particular romance because it plays such an integral role here. Sometimes you can be attracted to/by someone in a particular locale, during a specific time of year, but take it somewhere else and it may suddenly lose a bit of magic. I guess I just can't envision a sequel for this thing that wouldn't ultimately be disappointing in some way.

For sure, removing things from that magical Italian summer has the potential to make things more banal, more focused on the details of everyday life, which again is not all that riveting. Once more, I'm reminded of Enigma Variations and the life Paul-who-is-Elio-esque leads. After the compelling, CMBYN-like first story I was driven crazy by everyone's dithering and obsessing over self-inflicted first-world problems in the rest of the book. Most of them came off as over-educated and neurotic. What seemed intellectual and free and elevated at a beautiful Italian villa could become annoying as fuck when dropped into another setting.

[quote]Within reason. Please let's not have a hetero fanfiction sequel that amounts to two straight guys taking out their gay and dusting it off for each other, once every 40 years.

I'm with you. I just didn't want to set off the bi/gay/straight debate again, so I was trying to head it off.

[quote]I thought i read sonewhere they were emulating Tears for Fears for Elio’s last scene ?

Honestly, as someone who lived through those years - Elio's look at the end was pretty typical of the guys who were into the new wave/New Romantic/UK/underground/Euro type bands - early Duran Duran, A Flock of Seagulls, Tears For Fears, whatever. He even looks a little like Jon Cryer in Pretty in Pink. Lots of non-jock, non-heavy metal artsy guys rocked that look, and the sources of inspiration for it are too many to name. A poster on one of these threads expressed that they thought the film was trying to tell us through his new look that Elio was full-on gay now (why, the eyeliner?) - but no. Plenty of straight guys were doing all that back then. I just took it to mean he had sort of become more conscious of his look and was trying to be edgier or hipper, as teenagers will do.

R267 the last passage is cut off! You don't get to hear the final line :(

*paragraph

Call Me By Your Name Hi-Res Textless Movie Poster x6038

[quote]There are 56 year olds on the internet. Wow.

....

....

I am embarrassed for you and embarrassed for this thread.

Where do half the posters in these threads come from, because you aren't DLers.

[QUOTE]Where do half the posters in these threads come from

Tumblr. This was pretty much proven in the Armie thread earlier today

When will Tumblr freaks understand we don't want them here?

R272 Twas a joke. Take it easy old man.

We only want Tumblr-ers that are hot young men and present hole!

"Visions Of Gideon" has been playing on repeat in my house/car/iPhone since I saw the movie two days ago.

Plenty of people wore boxers in the 80s. Why would you think it was unrealistic?

R277 I can't listen to that without actually crying.

R279 Same.

[quote]the last passage is cut off! You don't get to hear the final line :(

Ironically, you don't but it's just the last phrase that's cut off:

[quuote]."...as you did back then, look me in the face, hold my gaze, and call me by your name.”

Still worth listening to Armie read the preceding 7+ hours. Thanks for that, R267If you play Sufjan's music at the same time, it's even better.

The movie has put me in a contemplative mood R279, and listening to that song helps me maintain my new headspace.

I fucking loved this movie.. It's inspiring me to make changes in my life.

I love that this film is resonating with people in small and profound ways.

The book was an emotional experience that stays with you, if people are getting that from the film then the adaptation was successful.

I agree, r284. The book was so good it made me apprehensive about seeing the movie. Thankfully, the movie only enhances the power of the book and was really quite faithful to the spirit of it.

[quote]When will Tumblr freaks understand we don't want them here?

The presence of the Tumblrinas would be far less of an issue if they would recognize that they are guests in GAY MALE SPACE and stop trying to control the tone and style in which this movie, its actors, etc are discussed here, even as they use this space to talk anonymously about the stuff their Tumblr covens frown on publicly discussing, like Armie's fetishes. No, we aren't going to be reverent and sycophantic like Tumblr, and if you can't handle it, door's over there. Their attempts to dictate to gay men the terms on which this film and its associated aspects are discussed are egregious, to say the least.

What's been happening on the Armie thread today boggles the mind. It wasn't happening just a few threads ago. I miss the older threads.

R286 That's what I find really hypocritical about them. If you look at any of their blogs, they're all typical Tumblr SJW types - and yet then have no problem invading what would be considered a "safe space" intended for a minority, and then attack actual members of that minority group as being self-loathing or not real gay men or whatever just because they won't play along with their fantasies.

Elderlez here. In 1987 at the age of 16 I spent several weeks of the summer vacation living with a pen pal’s family in Northern Italy. It was the Adriatic coast, not Lombardy. Still the movie really struck a cord. So many things were spot-on - the food, biking everywhere, the warm languid days spent in groups of teenagers at the beach and the evenings listening to music in the town center. My pen pal’s Mother was a hair dresser and she gave me Chiarra’s perm. But what really transported me back was talking to Italian girls in French. Italian teenagers had to take either English, German or French in school. Most took English. I didn’t meet anyone who took German (despite all the German tourists). One of my pen pal’s friends whom I became very close to was in the French group and I have never spoken more French in my life before or since. She was lovely.

*spoilerish*

I was somewhat puzzled by the scene after the night they first had sex and went for a swim the next day, but there was this weird distance between them leading Oliver to question if Elio was going to hold the events of the previous night against him. This of course lead to that moment back at the house where Oliver attempted to regain the upper hand by commanding Elio to remove his trunks and proceeded to briefly blow him until Elio was hard and then left him hanging there. Armie's victorious grin after that moment was great, but I'm still wondering why Elio seemingly backed off that day when he was so eager and urgent up to that point and thereafter after?

Oops! Ignore that unnecessary redundant "after" at the end of my last post.

Just saw this yesterday. Had "the" controversy in my mind as I watched (far in the back of my mind).

I don't think Chalamet looks like anything other than a 17-18 year old. But yeah, in some shots, Armie reads older than 24, for sure. There were also several shots and or sentences he said where I momentarily thought I was looking at Jon Hamm.

[quote] There are 56 year olds on the internet. Wow.

Yes, shockingly, we don't all die at 30.

[quote]Armie's victorious grin after that moment was great, but I'm still wondering why Elio seemingly backed off that day when he was so eager and urgent up to that point and thereafter after?

Self-loathing. He had sex with, was fucked by, a man. He had to get his head around it and beat back the internalized homophobia.

It is made very plain in the book, but I guess is fuzzier in the film.

Thank you, r293. I did read the book, but it's been so long I can't recall some of the internal dialogue Elio had about that first experience. It makes perfect sense though.

That must have been an formative experience, r288. Thanks for sharing that. Incidentally, 1987 is the year the events take place in the book, but they changed the year for the movie and made it earlier (it's easy to speculate why they did of course).

[quote]But what really transported me back was talking to Italian girls in French.

Marzia and Chiara were both french girls in the film, who just happened to be living in this Italian town. They made those two and Elio's mother french to work with Chalamet.

In the MOVIE, did Elio and Oliver have butt sex? Blowjobs were clear as day. Do you think it reasonable a 17 year old in 1983, pre internet, who had never had sex with a man before, would be into anal? Somehow, it's sweet and tender to think that oral sex was as far as the got during their summer.

Of course, Timmy and Armie are completely versatile in real life whenever they to get together. Elizabeth always films it, holding a cup of pistachios (Timmy favorite snack) when he needs an extra boost of energy from supporting a 6'5" blonde big balled god.

SPC added just one run for Call Me By Your Name directed by Luca Guadagnino in its sixth frame. In 115 theaters, the Golden Globe-nominee grossed over $702K, averaging $6,105 (-18%). The title took in nearly $851K Friday to Sunday of Christmas weekend, averaging $7,463. It has cumed over $4.61M.

More beautiful fanart

Haha what the fuck is that even meant to be? I'm guessing the "artist" has never seen a male body in real life before

That drawing is embarrassing R299

Now now, let's not embarrass R299 any more. We are all beautiful in our own way. *pats R299's back*

I was just thinking about how literally every critics and the cast themselves keep claiming there's no antagonist in CMBYN, which apparently is so very refreshing. When really if that was the case then why the hell didn't they hold hand there? It baffles me how people can just convince themselves that homophobia and being forced to live in the closet isn't one of the main theme of the movie/book. This particular moment is one of my favourite though. Sad and romantic at the same time.

The antagonist is Anthony Rapp.

I've bitched about that before r303. Homophobia is very much a ever present cord running through the background,

I mean they even have Oliver directly say he would get shipped off to be fixed if his father knew about his interest in men. C'mon now.

The movie was set in 1983 R303

R306 I knew that thank you. What's your point?

Of course r306. That is the point, the story takes place in a very homophobic world and you can see clear reflections of that. Yet many critics (and Armie Hammer himself) like to pretend it is different because it is a gay story without homophobia.

No gay bashing and no AIDS R308

When has there been a gay movie without those?

So is your argument that homophobia is the only reason Elio and Oliver didn't stay together, R308?

That if Elio was a woman, everything would have worked out?

On the surface, the main antagonist for Elio and Oliver during this particular summer is time. It’s what makes it all seem so urgent, yet the ramifications and fear of homophobia is what kept them from acknowledging their attraction and acting on it sooner. In that way, it was complicit in denying them more time together, which was already fleeting by the time they consummated their relationship.

...My argument? I never said that.

But clearly you want to talk about that which is fine.

It is an interesting thought experiment. There are two primary things that keep Elio and Oliver apart. Their gender. Their distance.

If they didn't have the problem of trying to have their clandestine same-sex relationship in the 80s would they have survived? Yeah, I think so. Oliver indicates to Elio that their relationship isn't going to work for him back in the real world. Had Elio been Elia, they probably would have managed to make it work.

I find it interesting that Aciman thinks he left their ending optimistic. Flash-forward 20 years later where society is less homophobic and Oliver's father was perhaps dead...and maybe he is willing to try?

We used to call that "shoehorning" R311

A 17 year old high school senior and a 24 year old college professor living on two different continents?

Seems like you're spinning to make a point R312

Er, professor? Oliver is a grad student, still a ways to go before he becomes a professor (though him and Elio both end up becoming one).

Elio had one more year in Italy and then was planning to go to college in America. They could be living in the same city again a year later.

I'm too lazy to scroll but someone asked earlier if Elio and Oliver had anal sex in the movie. Based on what was shown (two blowjobs and the aftermath of a 69 probably), no. However I think Elio definitely thought about it, he seemed to clearly fantisize being penetrated (and vice-versa ? it could be both) when he sniffed Oliver's trunks.

oliver fucked elio first, later elio fucked oliver

So disturbing!

R317, in the book, yes. The movie wasn’t quite so clear.

Then I’ve got to buy the audio book to hear Armie describe that R319.

I’m just six pages into the novel, and I already love it.

No style left behind with the fanart. Very eclectic fanbase here.

Eclectic is one word for it

To save you from disappointment R320-- the sex isn't described in detail or in the moment.

Oliver asks Elio if his butt is sore the next morning and Elio reports that it is. At another point he thinks about that fact that Oliver was cumming inside him a few hours earlier. But it's that clinical-- "I thought about the fact that just five hours earlier Oliver was icumming inside me as I passed him the bread."

Ditto the reverse-- Elio says something about being attentive to Oliver the next morning "because he had let me top him the night before"

(None of those quotes are anywhere close to exact, but close enough--that's as erotic as it gets ... except for maybe when they are in the hotel room in Rome and Elio is fingering Oliver's hole as the look out the window and discuss something unrelated.

The fingering was the hottest for me.

I just played hookie from work, and saw the movie for second time. Not so devastating emotional as the first time I saw four days, but I’m in a different mind

I am even more impressed by Timmy’s performance. I caught many of subtleties that a missed. He’s definitely getting nominated for an Oscar.

Armie’s acting was excellent when he did not speak. His voice has a bro-ish quality to it that was out of place in this movie. But his facial expressions, posture, movement...he was equal to Timmy and sometimes surpassed him in certain scenes.

All the other actors were great on the second viewing. I gained a new appreciation for the mother.

I’m definitely watching the Luca’s earlier movies. He’s a great director.

I just saw this for the second time and I enjoyed it more this time. I was able to relax and take it all in, appreciating the subtlety in acting, editing and soundtrack design.

Definitely watch 'I Am Love', r325. That film is probably the most stylistically akin to this one, although on a more grandiose scale.

I love that Luca allows the space for the the non-verbal dialogue in this film to reveal all that was left unspoken. I appreciate that he didn't rush the quiet moments for the sake of expediency.

[quote] It baffles me how people can just convince themselves that homophobia and being forced to live in the closet isn't one of the main theme of the movie/book.

I've also complained about the narrative that has developed about this around the film. I get that people want to feel good about this beautiful movie, I get that those associated with the film want to present it as a 'universal' story and not as a bummer with the tire iron or a horrible death at the end. They want to present it as a progression from the last big gay film that had a pop culture moment, Brokeback Mountain. But the closet and homophobia - including INTERNALIZED homophobia - are ever present in the story, and to pretend otherwise is dishonest.

[quote]No gay bashing and no AIDS [R308] When has there been a gay movie without those?

Maurice...written and directed by James Ivory.

Yes, you are right R328. The closet, and homophobia were present in Call Me By Your Name. But the movie is set in 1983, not some fairyland. It’s integral to the story, mainly Oliver.

“Weekend” which was made in 2011, also had no gay bashing and no AIDS. So when the a gay movie is set in the present day, maybe Oliver will end up with Elio.

[quote] No gay bashing and no AIDS [[R308]] When has there been a gay movie without those? - - - Maurice...written and directed by James Ivory.

To be fair homophobia is a main theme in Maurice. And R329, remember the scene at the end of Weekend when they meet the homophobe?

I'm not quite getting why there should be any mention of gay bashings in CMBYN? When I was falling in love with guys in the late 80s in a small town I was living my own life with gorgeous non-homophobic people. In my reality there wasn't much homophobia, and that was the case in Elio and Oliver's bubble as well.

[quote]I love that the turnaround time for home video is so much quicker than it used to be. In the past, it would take up to a year for a film to become available for purchase.

R179 I remember that JURASSIC PARK was released toward the end of seventh grade (June 1993), but it didn't come out on video until I was a freshman in high school (Oct. 1994).

Sufjan Steven's new video for "Mystery Of Love"

R332 it was directed by Luca's partner

What?? Who is Luca's partner?

Also, I bet that Luca wants to fuck Sufjan. He offered him a role in the movie. I never knew what Sufjan looked like, until I saw the accompanying news story to this video.

[quote]What?? Who is Luca's partner?

Didn't we just talk about this? Feels like we did.

Luca wants to fuck Armie, since by his own admission he's totally infantuated with him and has been for a few years.

Luca's partner is this guy

^ Ferdinando Cito Filomarino

Wow, he’s the same age as Armie (about 15 years younger than Luca).

R335 I too am experiencing deja vu

[quote]Luca wants to fuck Armie,

You think he hasn't fucked Armie already? C'mon, this is Luca we're talking about.

Lovely video r332, thanks for posting it

Yes, thank you R322

That music video makes you realise how much the leaked version pales compared to the real thing in terms of quality. I need to watch it on the big screen again ASAP!

I agree, r342.

The crispness of the colors, their subtle facial nuances, and the sunny warmth of it all is sorely missed in the leaked screener copies floating around the internet. I’m hoping the official blu-ray will look more like it does on the big screen.

It’s interesting what scenes Ferdinando chose to highlight. Esther Garrel features more prominently in this video than she otherwise did in the film and there’s some curious omissions between Elio and Oliver that were perhaps too sexy or spoilerish to include. Either way, it’s a beautiful video and it’s clever how he began and ended with the picking of the peach. I hope it’s included on the special features on the blu-ray.

R342. It’s incredible on the big screen. Just buy your tickets early, because the first time I went to see it, I was in the very first row.

R344 I know! They sold out so fast in the theatre near me. I was lucky enough to see it twice when a local independent cinema picked it up a few weeks later.

On the other hand, at my local art theater in Malverne NY, it only lasted two weeks. And this is a theater that plays things for weeks on end

Budgett$3.5 million

Box officet$7.2 million

Then I better leave work early tomorrow and see it again R346.

But in Portland, last weekend it was sold out for every showing.

The 10 Best LGBTQ Films of 2017

Those hands of his look so delicate. It could even be girls hands

How many peach jokes will Seth Meyers make at the Globes?

Were there any apple pie jokes at the 2000 Golden Globes?

Xavier Nolan on CMBYN:

"It hit so close to home that, for a while, it paralyzed me. I couldn’t really talk about it, even though I wanted to. What it did to me, fundamentally, was help me project myself in people I’ve fallen in love with in the past. People I judged as unkind, or selfish. Through Hammer’s character – that boastful giant who you’d think invincible – I had to, well, rethink my twenties. What I love here is that the rare moments where Hammer’s fragility isn’t concealed are almost only when Chalamet sits with his back to him – because vulnerability equals weakness of course, and from weakness arises pain, which by all means we shun. Not a lot of characters or human beings, in my own culture and experience, are capable of tenderness like Michael Stuhlbarg in this scene where he expounds his theories on our ageless incapabilities as lovers. It is so stirring to see filmmaking at its best, aesthetically, go hand in hand with the cruel truth about our romantic failures. To be able to attain such controlled contrast is just masterful, and something great to aspire to."

Hi R346 we saw it at Roosevelt Raceway. In theory the Malverne Theater is great and it is cheap, but it is kind of a dump.

Dolan gives all the credit to the film, when all those aspects were straight from the book that Luca adapted.

[quote]Yes, you are right [R328]. The closet, and homophobia were present in Call Me By Your Name. But the movie is set in 1983, not some fairyland. It’s integral to the story, mainly Oliver.

Yes, I understand that - that's what I was arguing. I was complaining that many of the people praising the film in the media (as well as people associated with the production) are so hellbent on presenting it as the anti-Brokeback Mountain, as a positive love story in which no one dies horribly or suffers from self-loathing due to being gay, that they are intentionally airbrushing out the role homophobia, external and internal, plays in the story.

Here's an interesting piece from The Atlantic in which the author discusses the ways he feels the specter of AIDS hovers over the story. I think, as he admits early on in the article, that he might be overthinking it a tad, but it's intriguing to consider in any case. And some of the things we've been discussing about homophobia are touched on too:

[quote][italic]Maybe the horror-film flashes are meant simply to reinforce the fear Oliver and Elio must feel. Their relationship is forbidden, we sense, because of their age difference, because Elio is the son of Oliver’s boss, and because they are the same sex. Though none of these factors is spoken of directly, both characters clearly feel a dalliance would be taboo. Elio at one point makes a homophobic crack about his parents’ gay friends. And despite his brash, swaggering affect, Oliver comes off as especially worried about the external world’s judgment. “We haven’t done anything to be ashamed of, and that’s a good thing,” he tells Elio after breaking off their first kiss. “I want to be good.”[/italic]

In the scene where they are about to drive to Lake Garda, why was Elio upset when his Dad asks Oliver to sit up front and navigate? Was it because he wanted to use the drive as a way to surreptitiously be physically close to Oliver in the small space of the back seat... or was it because the Dad was giving attention to Oliver?

Reckon he was also a bit embarrassed that he just told Armie to sit at the back (with him) but then his dad said the opposite. Who wants to be embarrassed in front of their crush?

[quote]Was it because he wanted to use the drive as a way to surreptitiously be physically close to Oliver in the small space of the back seat.

That’s how I read it; that’s such a great little moment. Elio was aching to set things right between himself and Oliver. Any attention is good attention.

Plus there's probably annoyance that his dad trusted Oliver to navigate but seemingly never trusted Elio to do it.

Does anyone else getva subtext that the dad also liked Oliver? I mean that way.

Fuck, yeah. I got a huge, "Dad procuring for his son" vibe.

R361 actually, no.

Mom and dad knew their son...better than he knew himself.

Elio’s mom tells Elio that that Oliver likes him. “How do you know this?” “Because he told me. Oliver likes you...more than you do.”

So dad let it be known to Oliver, that was okay through that slide show of male statues that begged to be touched.

Elio’s parents are the fantasy parents that we all wish we had....loving and accepting.

So this was a good day for CMBYN, it got both WGA and PGA. I was not expecting PGA. So I am fairly certain this is getting Best Picture nomination. And with The darkest Hour underperforming so far, it will take Oldman to set a new precedent for Best Actor win.

Didn't anyone got the impression that Dad was crushing on Olive.

...that's how I took it after his last speech.

Not really. I did get the sense that the parents kind of encouraged the romance, the mom because she knew Elio liked Oliver and probably thought Oliver was a nice guy. The dad, I think, did it for those same reasons but also because he wanted Elio to have the sort of connection he couldn't have (what he tells Elio in his speech).

Regarding Oliver and Dad, there's a scene near the beginning (but after the shoulder massage) where we see Oliver touch Dad's back in the same lingering-too-long way he touched Elio immediately before giving Elio the massage. It stuck out to me as obviously flirtatious but then I figured they were just telling us that Oliver is a touchy-feely guy. By the end, I concluded that it was very much Oliver teasing Dad, not expecting anything to come of it, but definitely playing with his ability to arouse desire.

r366, Mom totally encouraged it. She's the one who suggested the two have a weekend away. I laughed out loud when Elio and Dad were having THE conversation and Dad said Mom didn't know about his youthful crush on a guy. Yeah, buddy, your wife knows. She's trying to make sure her son doesn't repeat your mistakes.

Luca said there's a deleted scene, set right after Elio and Oliver kiss on the balcony and talk about how much time they wasted, in which the parents hear them and then end up having sex or something. I don't remember all the details but it was in an interview a while ago, but Luca said it would make it in the DVD. So both of them knew and the dad knew that the mum knew (and vice versa).

I've seen it twice in the movies, now it's time for Putio

I've seen in 7 times at different festivals, paying 20 or so pounds every time now it's time for putlocker!

The blu-ray will be released on March 5th.

R371, that’s sooner than I expected.

That’s the day after the Academy Awards. I would think they would want time to modify the packaging to tout any awards they might win.

That's just the UK release date.

R374 for the DVD?

[quote]Luca said there's a deleted scene, set right after Elio and Oliver kiss on the balcony and talk about how much time they wasted, in which the parents hear them and then end up having sex or something.

Yes, that scene is in the version of the script that Sony released for awards consideration.

R375 Yeah. The film was released in the UK in October so makes sense that it would be released earlier there.

Thank God it didn’t win any Golden Globes.

It's quite clear they are not going to win any Oscars either. Anyone noticed how subdued the room was when Dakota was presented CMBYN? It's wrong timing , they will be lucky if they get nominated at all.

It will get two nominations - Chalamet and Adapted Screenplay. It is not doing well with the Guilds - picking up only two so far (Writers and Producers) and unlikely to get noms in either of the remaining major Guilds yet to announce - Cinematographers and Directors - so that indicates lukewarm support across potential Academy voters.

Getting the writers and producers guild is doing well. Of course it will get a best picture nomination.

We've talked about this in this thread before, the only oscar it might take home is adapted screenplay. This isn't news, everyone should have known that.

R380 or maybe Stuhlbarg. screenplay and cinematography?

If Chalamet gets nominated, I think he'll drag Hammer not Stuhlbarg for the supporting nod. Everyone thinks of Elio and Oliver together. Like Bernardo and Anita. Of course, I don't expect them to win like those two, but just laying out the scenario for who would most likely get the supporting nomination if it were one of its nods.

We would all like that. But Supporting Actor category is crowded this year.

And the Oscars, and pretty much all awards, are public masturbation for the industry, not a reflection of quality.

[quote]We've talked about this in this thread before, the only oscar it might take home is adapted screenplay.

I think this is almost guaranteed - the opportunity to grant James Ivory an Oscar at last will put it over the top. He's 89, highly respected and this is almost certainly his last time at the rodeo.

[quote]If Chalamet gets nominated, I think he'll drag Hammer not Stuhlbarg for the supporting nod. Everyone thinks of Elio and Oliver together.

Stuhlbarg seems to have stalled out - Hollywood Elsewhere has recently had a couple of those interviews with industry figures giving their takes on the awards season anonymously, and the male director-writer praised Stuhlbarg's big scene but said it was mainly the writing, not his acting. I think that's probably a common opinion, given that all the critical praise he's gotten hasn't translated into the predicted awards acclaim.

The aforementioned male Academy member (whom the commenters think is probably Rod Lurie) didn't mention CMBYN much except to praise Chalamet and call it a 'real' movie, but the female producer they interviewed loved it. Yet even she didn't think it would actually get anything beyond adapted screenplay.

Ivory deserves that statue.

A Chalamet nomination (and loss) and a Adapted win would mirror what happened with Gods and Monsters twenty years ago.

However, don’t count out The Disaster Artist or Molly’s Game for Adapted.

Is CMBMN losing steam? Does a story about a twenty-something gay guy preying an a kid who looks 14 hit too close to home? Kevin Spacey?

The straight equivalent of CMBYN would have been if the stars of 2005’s Hard Candy, Patrick Wilson and Ellen Page, had instead starred in a beautiful, life affirming romance.

The most current parallel you can draw to this film is ‘Carol’ (2015). Both are based on gay themed novels that feature an age difference between the leads, both tastefully shot by respected directors, both lauded by critics and audiences alike, yet ‘Carol’ walked away empty handed at the big awards shows that year and there’s a very good possibility that CMBYN will meet the same fate, which is a shame.

All because Arnie refused to manscape.

**Armie

Gay themed movies which show (simulated) sex, like Armie going down on Timmy and Cate munching Rooney’s box, don’t do well with 60+ crowd of academy voters.

Moonlight won because it didn’t offend anyone with its discreet handjob.

BBM had simulated sex.

CMBYM could scarely be more tame in its depictions of sex.

You're a nut

Thanks was meant for r389

For us gay men and anyone who is less than 60 year old R395. Our lives are constantly steeped in porn.

But to a 65 year old? Shocking to see Armie kneeling and giving head to Timmy in the doorway.

SPC’s Call Me By Your Name took in nearly $759K with two additional runs in its 7th frame bringing its cume to just over $6M. In 117 theaters, the title grossed $758,726, averaging $6,458, which actually tops its three-day average of $6,105 last weekend from a gross of $702K in 115 locations.

[quote]But to a 65 year old?

What's the average age of Academy voters?

They have tried to diversify the membership in recent years, but as of 2014 the demographics of the academy were as follows

[quote]94% White, 76% Men, and an Average of 63 Years Old

Didn't Cheryl Isaac Boone shake up the membership in early 2016 in light of the #OscarsSoWhite bullshit? I think I remember reading about longtime older members losing their status.

Yes and they've added around 1400 members in the last two years. So the average age will definitely have gone down.

The average black person is even more homophobic that the average white person. So there's even less of chance for CMBYN to be recognized.

Sad, but you know it's true.

They haven't added 1,400 black members. They've added more women, more Europeans, more younger white people etc.

Do you have a link to a breakdown of the new members R405?

R406 Here's the ones added this year including Armie himself.

R406 Here's the 2016 list.

Thank you R407/R408

Now will Armie to be voting for himself or Timmy in the nomination? Support himself or his dear friend? What is the process for what actor goes in what category for the nominations?

Hammer and Chalamet are not competing in the same category r409.

Hammer can put himself first for supporting male, and Chalamet first for lead male.

It is Hammer/Stahlburg that are competing in the same category.

Why are there 2 Part 16s??

[italic] As I stare at these threads, I feel an utter sense of confusion. [/italic] "I don't know what to believe anymore", [italic] I said as tears started to blur my vision.

Ignore that other troll-infested Part 16. Stick with us, baby. We’ll show you a good time.

R410 are you allowed to vote for yourself?

I would imagine voting is anonymous so probably.

R412 [italic] "As I was taking a stroll, I met a stranger in the distance. He was rather... strange."

Stahlburg is so out of luck with Mr Hammer

✅ Armie Hammer for Best Supporting Actor

✅ Timmy Chalamet for Best Actor

It sucked. Bland boring older blond guy and twinky skinny Chris Makepeace look-alike younger guy. I couldn’t relate.

You are comparing this fetus with Timmy Chally. Come on..... Timo is nothing like this dude

[quote] Luca said there's a deleted scene, set right after Elio and Oliver kiss on the balcony and talk about how much time they wasted, in which the parents hear them and then end up having sex or something.

Is that the anal sex scene from Ivory's original script?

IIRC you see them in position and then close-up on Elio as he winces and then relaxes and that's it.

so riddle me this.

Is Oliver a bisexual ?? And did he just treat his relationship with Elio as a fling and forgot him later ? If he was seriously in love with Elio, why did he decide to marry so young ?

Why Elio didn't pursue his love with Oliver ? He is an American apparently and he could easily move to America if he wanted to as parents were rich and supportive.

Isn’t that a young Fran Lebowitz in R418? Taken right before this shot, right?

R413 I did!

R420 Do the guys really have to spell it out that theyre bisexual? They're OBVIOUSLY bisexual in both the book and the film.

r423 I am sorry I didn't read the book but when does Oliver say he is bisexual in the movie ?

R424 no mention is made of any characters sexuality in the movie.

We've discussed all this before of course, but alright r420

[quote] If he was seriously in love with Elio, why did he decide to marry so young ?

Young? The average age of a guy getting married in 1983 was 25, which given when we meet Oliver he is 24, he would have been 25 when he got married.

[quote]Why Elio didn't pursue his love with Oliver ? He is an American apparently and he could easily move to America if he wanted to as parents

Elio does move to America. He purposely stays away from Oliver because he is heartbroken and doesn't want to see him with his wife and kids. Oliver invites him to meet his family and Elio is like fuck no.

[quote]And did he just treat his relationship with Elio as a fling and forgot him later ?

Oliver in no way feels comfortable being in a relationship with Elio. He tells him how lucky Elio is, and that his parents would basically disown him.

Oliver never forgots Elio in the book. He keeps close tabs on him his entire life, and he hangs the location of their first kiss in his office. The book ends with him going to visit Elio at the Italian family home 20 years after they first met.

R424 They dont have to say it. It's heavily implied that theyre bisexual.

Have you not been playing along R420?

To answer your questions

There are not three black and white kinds of sexuality. Oliver falls somewhere in the middle of the Kinsey scale. It's made clear that Elio is not hid first male lover, but it's left unclear how into females he is. Enough to procreate for sure.

In the 80s, moreso than today, most guys who had the ability to get it up for a woman got married because of AiDS and lack of acceptance. It's made obvious that Oliver "passes" for straight too.

The book and movie are told from Elio's POV so Oliver never says anything other than what he says directly to Elio. The book is told as Elio looking back 20 years after that summer and it's made clear that he is a somewhat unreliable narrator. Not on purpose, just that he only knows what his 17 year old self knew at the time.

Elio eventually goes to college in the US, but he's still a high school senior. In the book there are two scenes, maybe 10 years after and then 20 years after, where Elio does track down Oliver who is married with two kids. It's left unclear/unsaid if his marriage is happy or who his wife is. He wants to bring Elio home to meet his kids, but not his wife... though again that is Elio telling the story. Oliver may have said "wife and kids" and all Elio hears/remembers is "kids".

I agree with most of what you said R426 except this:

[quote] Young? The average age of a guy getting married in 1983 was 25, which given when we meet Oliver he is 24, he would have been 25 when he got married.

That's for ALL Americans (I'll assume that's a real stat, not a made up one.)

For an upper middle class Jewish kid like Oliver with a PhD, 25 was VERY young, even in 1983. He would likely have been the first of his friends to have gotten married.

R428 So did Elio fucked his kids too?

R420 my take was yes, Oliver really was falling in love with Elio but didn't know what to do with it. He had to leave and go back to school in New York, was probably not at all clear about what Elio's parents would think about him bedding down their son (although we later learn he was getting hints from Elio's dad that they approved), and for sure he knew his own parents would not accept a relationship like this at all.

The last shot in the hotel room in Bergamo on the day Oliver will leave for New York has him awake very early and with Elio still asleep... Armie Hammer handled this scene very well in my opinion. He has such a look of confusion, longing, helplessness, and what he knows will be the beginning of heartbreak for both of them as he watches Elio.

thanks to each one of you r425, r426, r427, r428, r429, r431

R426 my question was why Elio didn't move to America when both of them were still in love with each other and not after Oliver got married .

Elio still had a year of highschool to finish (which is a key point that people who think they should have aged up the character miss, you need that conflict)

He can go to university in New York and meet Oliver...in a year, but there was no feasible way for them to be together at the time.

r433 thanks :)

Oh please, if they really wanted to be together, they would be, it's not like they would get killed or arrested. All of their problems and things that blocked them from benig a couple were created in their own mind. Even if they married a woman they could just dump her later on.

Well the way Andre Aciman sees his ending is Oliver might be dumping his wife in the flashforward, he leaves Oliver's intentions when he goes to visit Elio open-ended.

R432 yes R433 is exactly right. Elio still had his senior year of high school in Italy. The phone call that ends CMBYN as a film would have been only about 3 or 4 months after Oliver had gone back to New York.

What made the ending of the film especially heartbreaking for me was that, to your point, I think Elio had every intention and hope that within the year he and Oliver could find a way to be together again. This would seem particularly possible for Elio's film character because remember by this point his parents had already essentially given him their blessing and support to be gay... and of course we know both parents adored Oliver.

For Elio, the phone call completely destroyed within a matter of minutes all those romantic hopes and dreams he was still holding onto from just a few months earlier. And he must have really felt betrayed in that Oliver had kept from him even the knowledge he ever had a girlfriend. Oliver says his girlfriend has "been off and on for a few years" during their phone call which clues us in on his struggles to put up a straight face for his parents, society, whatever, and that he didn't have any feelings of true love for the girl. She just an apparatus for the closet.

As others have mentioned here, he probably got back to New York and with AIDS quickly changing the landscape for what being a gay man meant, he succumbed to all the pressure and had a knee jerk reaction to get married as a way to "solve everything".

If Elio and Oliver are together at the end of the second movie, my heart will explode.

And I’m a hard, cynical 46 old man.

You were also supposed to take away that the villa created a Midsummer Night's Dream type atmosphere for Oliver, this sort of magical world where anything was possible.

When he got back to New York and to reality, it probably all seemed like a dream to him and he chose to move forward with his life as it was planned.

R435 and other romantics need to realize the absurdity/impracticality of Oliver having 17 year old Elio with him in NYC. Both Elio and Oliver realized that they needed to move on with their lives, Elio never asks Oliver if he can go with him or even thinks about it. Not in the book or in the movie.

Of course Elio doesn't expect to go with him, but he does honestly believe that he will go to college in NY next year and they will be together again.

That is why it utterly destroys him when Oliver breaks his heart (as r437 already said). He never gets over it. When they talk years and years later the pain of the heartbreak and what he feels is Oliver's betrayal is still so visceral for him.

Good summary R437

I think the "what girlfriend" aspect was what freaked Elio out

And, as I'd mentioned earlier, the fact that for a guy of Oliver (and Elio's) background, 25 was indeed a very young age to get married, even in 1983. Plus it must have seemed so adult to a high school senior. Remember that Elio has another nine months to go before he even starts his freshman year of college. Aciman never mentions where Elio went to high school either--was he at an Italian school or at an expat school (e.g .The American School of Bologna or wherever Prof. Perlman taught)

[quote] Of course Elio doesn't expect to go with him, but he does honestly believe that he will go to college in NY next year and they will be together again.

Does he though?

IIRC, that Hanukkah phone call is the first time Elio's heard from Oliver (in the book) since Oliver left.

R442 I haven't read the book yet, so maybe you're right. But with the film, based on what we know about the two characters, it's easy to add your own narrative as a viewer that they most likely had some regular written communication since Oliver left. International phone calls in 1983 wouldn't have necessarily been as frequent as we would expect today... maybe Oliver needed a better deal with MCI. LOL ... and of course it wasn't like either of them were running around with an iPhone glued to their ear.

You made me quickly flip through the book again r442.

It plays out differently. Oliver and Elio had been in phone contact, Oliver visits him for Christmas/Hannukah and then drops the marriage bomb in person. Even though he had never mentioned it to Elio on the phone. Elio still tries to engage Oliver in sex, but Oliver refuses him. That is when things become chilly between them and they lose regular contact after that trip.

Thank you R444!

I was just about to get up and find the book to check. All coming back to me now, lol

That ending in many ways sadder than the movie but makes clearer that Oliver it trying to compartmentalize it as a summer fling and move on. He may also believe that he's helping Elio move on too, that a 17 year old doesn't need to be pining over an unavailable older guy.

First saw the film a few weeks ago with friends who got all upset at the parents for so enthusiastically congratulating Oliver about his marriage news considering how they knew Elio felt about Oliver, etc.

But went to see it again last night and the scene plays very differently when you what's coming and can focus on the details of Michael Stuhlbarg's performance. His over the top "Ahhhhh! CoNgRaTuLaTiOnS! Mazel tov!!!" is actually said with a very forced inflection that makes it pretty clear it's a just a put on and he's actually disappointed to hear the news... but what else could he say.

Anyway, I really enjoyed seeing CMBYN a second time because you are able to better notice all the great acting from the supporting cast and the little clues they drop as to what they really know/ suspect and how they really feel about the whole Elio & Oliver dynamic.

Also notable is the weird bind Oliver is in because he needs Professor Perlman's approval professionally, so needs to tread a very fine line with Elio.

Were that not the case, it's likely he would have ghosted Elio so as to keep "all that gay stuff" in the past.

Can we have a Brokeback Mountain sequel?

[quote]He wants to bring Elio home to meet his kids, but not his wife... though again that is Elio telling the story. Oliver may have said "wife and kids" and all Elio hears/remembers is "kids".

He does want Elio to meet the wife. What he says is, 'Come for a drink, come for dinner, tonight, now, meet my wife, my boys. Please, please, please.' As Andre Aciman has said, he was attempting to 'integrate' Elio into his family there - present him to Wife and Boys as just an old friend, turn him into what Oliver himself became to the Perlmans. Elio wasn't having it, as has been noted. But Oliver did refer to his wife there - it's one of the very few times he does so.

[quote] Elio still tries to engage Oliver in sex, but Oliver refuses him. That is when things become chilly between them and they lose regular contact after that trip.

I've felt during that scene that Elio was sort of just 'You're getting married, and...? What's that got to do with us?' It doesn't initially occur to him that this makes any difference to them. And Oliver was acting like a drunk with a bottle of booze placed in front of him - desperately tempted, trying to hold Elio at bay. Elio senses his weakness: 'I should, could, have seized him.' Only later do we realize that if Elio had pushed harder there, maybe things would have turned out very differently.

[quote]Well the way Andre Aciman sees his ending is Oliver might be dumping his wife in the flashforward, he leaves Oliver's intentions when he goes to visit Elio open-ended.

The possibility is definitely there...I think it's interesting that this visit comes a few years after the visit at Oliver's university, where Elio basically states his boundaries: I still feel too much for you to pretend to be your old buddy for your wife and kids, sorry. Having failed to bring Elio back into his life via the old family friend route - now Oliver is coming to Elio alone, in the place where they fell in love, which is no longer much fun, what with various deaths and changes. But still he's there, and being very ambiguous with his intentions...

Thanks for the clarifications R449

I think though that if Elio had pushed Oliver that night all that would have happened is that Oliver would have woken up with a hangover, so to speak and pushed Elio away even harder, knowing that he did not always have the power to resist him.

I don't think he would have changed course.

I just wish they had the guts to do something really graphic. A scene with Elio experiencing an anal prolapse as a result of not getting enough lube for instance. Anything. Make it clear the guys on that screen are not hugging, groping or kissing, we have seen this before. I want it made clear the guys on the screen are fucking like jackhammers. If there is a concern straight audiences can't handle well, then the only way to get them over their prudishness is to blow their minds honey!!!

R451 is a director for TimTales

[quote] A scene with Elio experiencing an anal prolapse as a result of not getting enough lube for instance

Ah yes, just something random like that. Your comment made me laugh more than it should have

Strangely, I don't think people not wanting to see the inside of someone's asshole makes them prudish? Idk, maybe it's just me.

We were having such a nice discussion about the story and what the future could've held for Elio and Oliver before Mr Freak In The Sheets came along

r420 here again. Can anyone explain Oliver dancing like a freak with that lady near the car leaving Elio behind at the end of the movie ?

Yeah, the women in this film are just placeholders and annoyances.

Elio's mom is like the best character though.

It foreshadows that Oliver will end up with a woman.

R459 Its pretty obvious from the trailer that it wont have a good ending though

It is a novel with only two real characters, two men who the story is about r457. Even Elio's father only exists for one speech.

I agree, R461; I'm saying I found the women's roles annoying.

That scene deviates from the novel the most R420

In the novel, they go to Rome. Oliver is taken out by his publisher who IIRC know Elio's dad too. Elio drinks too much and stats thinking about how hot the publishers 30 year old daughter is and is very impressed and proud that everyone is making a big deal over Oliver. A bit jealous too because he wants Oliver to himself.

Elio drinks too much and, as in the movie, he throws up and Oliver helps him.

They meet the people playing hte music, but Elio seems more into hanging with them and dancing with them than Oliver. IIRC, the next morning during pillow talk, Oliver reveals that Elio wanted to take one of the girls home with them, and they both have a laugh over it.

In the movie the scene seems more to show how free and childlike Oliver is when he's alone with Elio, that he can finally be his true self.

It does look like a kid hugging his father.

The summer scenery is beautifully filmed.

For those that read the book. How much better is the book if at all. And when you imagined the characters did they look like the movie characters.

[quote]I think though that if Elio had pushed Oliver that night all that would have happened is that Oliver would have woken up with a hangover, so to speak and pushed Elio away even harder, knowing that he did not always have the power to resist him.

Well, I think Oliver already had a pretty good idea that Elio was difficult for him to resist, but you could certainly be right, that it wouldn't have changed anything. It just seems to me that there are points ('I MIGHT be getting married...') in which he appears to be trying to put the ball in Elio's court, Elio who was the one who initially had the courage to 'speak, or to die'. We know Oliver, ultimately, isn't as courageous, and chooses to live a life of least resistance. But I think part of him wanted Elio to seize him, to make some decision for him, override him.

[quote]For those that read the book. How much better is the book if at all. And when you imagined the characters did they look like the movie characters.

Is the book is better than the film? In many ways, but not in every way. The film has boiled the book's story down to the tale of a summer romance, and doesn't deal with many of Andre Aciman's deeper ideas. And with the choice to discard the final section of the book ('Ghost Spots'), the long-term effects of this relationship on both men are never explored, which to me is where the heart of the book, the whole point, lies. It has also gotten rid of some of the book's darker edges. But the film also utilized its landscape and location in a more vivid way than the novel could, filled out some characters that feel flatter in the book because we only see them through Elio's perspective, made us invested in Oliver's life and feelings as well as Elio's, among other things. It's a beautiful adaptation of PART of the book. But the book is richer for including what the film left out.

As for how I imagined the characters - Timothee Chalamet for me is utterly perfect as Elio. Armie Hammer is a touch more problematic - Oliver in the book is 24 and still has something of the college guy about him, doesn't come off as completely grown-up. But Armie is clearly a MAN, that sort of youthfulness is gone, both physically and otherwise. When Luca Guadagnino first got the idea of Armie for Oliver after seeing him in The Social Network, he was 24 and would have fit the role very well, though there shouldn't be such a size difference between the two characters, who are able to wear each other's clothes. Acting-wise, however, he brings a tenderness and warmth to Oliver in the latter part of the film that isn't as present in the book, where Oliver seen through Elio's eyes is more remote, more of an object. Again, a trade-off.

I never had a clear picture of Elio's dad. Amira Casar is pretty much what I pictured as Elio's mom, as is Esther Garrel as Marzia. Oddly, two characters who didn't really look like I'd pictured them were Mafalda, their housekeeper (pictured a bigger woman) and Chiara. Thought the latter would be hotter for some reason.

R466 Thoughtful response appreciated. I was thinking the book has got to tell more and be more for all the hype this movie is generating. Don't get me wrong I like Armie Hammer and not that he played the character less than. I just don't see the two of them hooking up. Armie and the Mom is more believable.

Good post R466.

I twisted the collective arms of my mostly straight club last night into reading “Call Me Buy Your Name” for the meeting next month. I’m starting the novel today, and your post has given an idea of what to expect.

[quote] As for how I imagined the characters - Timothee Chalamet for me is utterly perfect as Elio. Armie Hammer is a touch more problematic - Oliver in the book is 24 and still has something of the college guy about him, doesn't come off as completely grown-up. But Armie is clearly a MAN, that sort of youthfulness is gone, both physically and otherwise. When Luca Guadagnino first got the idea of Armie for Oliver after seeing him in The Social Network, he was 24 and would have fit the role very well, though there shouldn't be such a size difference between the two characters, who are able to wear each other's clothes. Acting-wise, however, he brings a tenderness and warmth to Oliver in the latter part of the film that isn't as present in the book, where Oliver seen through Elio's eyes is more remote, more of an object. Again, a trade-off.

Agree 100% R466

In my mind there was a very bro-ish quality to Oliver, a Jewish fratboy if you will, which brings up the only other disconnect: I didn't picture Elio having Chalamet's American accent, in my mind he was one of those expat kids who speaks English fluently but with a vaguely unidentifiable accent, some words pronounced the British way, less use of American colloquialisms. One of the things that Elio is attracted to in the book is Oliver's Americanness-- the casual way he says "later" to mean goodbye and all that. Elio is a bit stressed about having to go to college in the US since he realizes he's not fully American. And you sort of got that Elio's Euopean-ness was attractive to Oliver in the same way.

I agree with what R469 points out as a Jewish frat boy quality, because if you’ve grown up around American Jews you’ll recognize there’s this kind of machismo posturing, a kind of overbaked jockiness among American Jewish boys who happen to “pass” more as stereotypical gentile American jocks. The ideal Oliver for me will always be Bryan Greenberg when he was playing Jake on One Tree Hill.

Never watched One Tree Hill R470 but just from the photo I'd say I agree with you.

[quote]Armie Hammer is a touch more problematic - Oliver in the book is 24 and still has something of the college guy about him, doesn't come off as completely grown-up. But Armie is clearly a MAN, that sort of youthfulness is gone, both physically and otherwise. When Luca Guadagnino first got the idea of Armie for Oliver after seeing him in The Social Network, he was 24 and would have fit the role very well, though there shouldn't be such a size difference between the two characters, who are able to wear each other's clothes.

Yeah, it is a well worn complaint but well said.

[quote]I didn't picture Elio having Chalamet's American accent, in my mind he was one of those expat kids who speaks English fluently but with a vaguely unidentifiable accent, some words pronounced the British way, less use of American colloquialisms. One of the things that Elio is attracted to in the book is Oliver's Americanness-- the casual way he says "later" to mean goodbye and all that. Elio is a bit stressed about having to go to college in the US since he realizes he's not fully American. And you sort of got that Elio's Euopean-ness was attractive to Oliver in the same way.

Also a well-worn complaint, but also well said.

In terms of the book vs movie, personally I had a greater emotional response to the book than I did to the film.

Call Me By Your Name does well at BAFTA, with the film, Chalamet, the screenplay and surprisingly Luca all getting nominations.

No BAFTA love for Armie.

I don't think Armie's performance necessarily merits an oscar nom. If he gets one, cool, good for him.

If not I don't see it as some horrendous snub.

Though I will point that given he was left out of SAG and BAFTA, it doesn't look great for him getting in.

R394 And how that destroyed Jake Gyllenhaal's career .

I still think Hammer will get in.

R477 I don't think it's over for him, either. I mean, Hugh Grant for PADDINGTON 2? Also, Christopher Plummer for that former Kevin Spacey role? There's no way that those two will get an Oscar nod. That still leaves two slots open. All this confirms is that Rockwell, Defoe, and possibly Harrelson (he missed out on GG) are definitely in. BAFTA definitely liked CMBYN if they nominated it for Picture, Director, Actor, and Screenplay. Maybe Stuhlbarg and Hammer split the vote? The Brits' critics awards did seem split on them,

Another thing to consider, the last time two actors were nominated for Supporting Actor for the same film was in 1991 (Keitel & Kinglsey in JFK). So it doesn't bode well for Harrelson, either.

I meant Kinglsey & Keitel in BUGSY, dammit.

Best photo of Hammer and Chalamet.

R481 both very good looking. Armie looks 35 and Chalamet looks 10 to 12 maybe 13 tops. Definitely prepubescent. Man and Child.

Very hairy man and hairless child

Chalamet is not a child. He's 22 for fuck's sake!

R481 Chalamet should be the one with the facial hair and Hammer clean shaven. Now *that* would be the photo to shut up the naysayers.

Those SPC interns are so unimaginative.

Help me with my homework

[QUOTE] Chalamet should be the one with the facial hair

If only he could grow some.

Meanwhile Armie would probably have pitched a fit about his masculinity being threatened if he was asked to shave

It does

Oliver is a pedo. It wasn't like he started to like Elio after getting to know him or fought against his feelings since Elio was 17. He stepped back because he thought Elio did not feel the same way for him. He clarifies this in a later scene where happens to be the balcony. Elio asks Oliver why he didn't make it obvious earlier if his like was mutual for him. Then Oliver refers to the shoulder massage that Elio received from him while playing volleyball. That was the hint about he liked Elio only after one or two days they met. He makes his move right away. These two scenes make me feel like Oliver is a pedo; he thought to have good time during summer and did not share the romantic side of the relationship. To me, it was pure physical for Oliver.

I don't understand why people see it as a masterpiece although it was about a predator trying to have some fun with a twink. The only thing sensual and spectacular about it was Chalamet's performance.

Hon, 17 is the age of consent in most states, so enough with the "pedo" comments. Plus, your description of Oliver means you either weren't watching the film carefully or you didn't actually see it.

A refresher: This is the map of the US showing age of consent.

Blue = 16 Gold = 17 Green - 18

Chalamet's home state NY is 17. Besides, the story takes place in Italy, where the age of consent is 14. People are getting their knickers in a bunch over nothing. Methinks they're just trying to influence negative opinion on the movie and possibly cost it Oscar nods. Why else all of this investment?

The funny is is reading the book and watching the movie the "age difference" is never supposed to be even be a consideration or cause for concern, so it is bit funny how much ink that topic has gotten.

Though a lot of that is probably due to Luca casting Armie in the role.

R407: Here's the ones added this year including Armie himself.

They're just letting anyone in these days.

Luca always wanted Armie for the role and probably wouldn’t have cast anyone else as long as he was attached to the project. If he made the film back when it was initially floated, Chalamet would have been too young, so the compromise is you get a slightly older looking Oliver and you get Chalamet as Elio. I think the end result was worth it and most people who watch are able to suspend disbelief about the reported age thing and go with it because of the power of the acting and the storytelling. Besides, the characters are supposed to be seven years apart in age and Armie and Timmy are nine years apart. That’s a pretty accurate age spread.

The question does need to be asked though if Luca's casual approach to casting ultimately hurt the film with the general public, and possibly with awards voters, because of the visual of age difference. Keyword visual - don't point out their ages again, I'm talking about how it looks. Not aided by PR letting them do shoots like R481

R494 This. The casting is perfect. Luca has good taste in men also.

Agree r492. The age is a total non issue. When I read the book I never paid any attention to the age except when Elio mentions one of them feeling older or younger. For me, the whole thing has been kind of sad and funny because personally, one of my favorite things about the book was how, despite Elio being a creep who goes into people's rooms to sniff their bathing suits, the relationship was so balanced, people explicitly asked for consent, every character's actions are driven by genuine love and affection. No one is maliciously deceived, jealous, manipulated, or abused in any way. I am so used to seeing couples in media, particularly straight, being awful, women being lied to, disrespected and manipulated (all of this shown as normal couple behavior) that reading cmbyn was such a breath of fresh air. And now seeing people's negative reactions makes me think "did we even read the same book". Then i remember they probably haven't read it, or seen the movie for at matter.

[quote]The casting is perfect

How is the casting perfect? It is supposed to be a story about a 17-year old and a 24-year old.

The casting creates a more dramatic difference between the two characters than the story attended.

R495 I was recommending CMBYN to a friend this morning. He thought it was a pedo romance based on the trailer. He said the visual age difference “could have been anywhere from 13 - 35” based on viewing the trailer and not knowing anything about the story. I explained to him that the characters were 17 and 24, and now he’s excited to see it.

So yes...Armie’s casting didn’t help with the average viewer who was viewing the trailer in a casual way and knew nothing about the movie.

"People are getting their knickers in a bunch over nothing."

Exactly. You have the hysterical types who think this film is basically reflecting and supporting what Spacey did to Anthony Rapp, which is absurd. And you have the more conservative trolls who just want to accentuate any negativity around the film. Two sets of severe hangups.

For R498/R499 et al

R500 Do you get there's a world outside DL? That the criticism over the perceived age difference isn't just limited to trolls but is impacting the wider audience? And basically caused just because Luca wanted to fuck Armie and put his own personal desires over what's best for the film.

Also, yes, Armie's casting absolutely hurt the mass appeal of the film. On the other hand he was great and Timothée was incredible WITH Armie and I wonder if a younger looking actor, as much as it would have been less visually distracting for some people, would have had the level of chemistry Armie and Timothée had together.

The American Society of Cinematographers haven't nominated Call Me for their award - which is somewhat surprising

What does that have to do with anything r501?

Queer As Folk was a story of a 17-year old and a 29-year old.

This is a story of a 17-year old and a 24-year old.

My point was casting should reflect the story you are trying to tell.

Armie Hammer doesn't strike an audience as someone in his early twenties, so it is an odd casting choice.

Because the UK version of QAF was about a 15 year old and a 29 year old R505

And the US version seemed to get around that particular math by casting a 30 year old who looked 22 to play the 29 year old.

Based on that anecdote r499, the appearance of age is problematic both ways then if Timmy is reading as 13 to a casual observer. If people are going to gripe about the casting of Hammer for looking too old, they should also consider that Chalamet may look too young for the role. The film, as it is, has been a big success considering that it could have become a small niche art house film without any traction and one way ticket to online streaming purgatory. Instead, this has elevated the profiles of everyone involved and has been a major awards contender and even if it doesn’t pick up a single major prize, it’s nowhere near a failure.

Queer as Folk isn't a good line of defence, given that Russell T Davies basically condemned QAF in Cucumber, by having a scene where it's revealed a character pursued a then 15 year old and correctly show him as a predator. Attitudes have changed markedly since QAF first aired.

I was just asking if you all were as upset about that at the time as you are about CMBYN now, given that the UK version actually WAS pederasty with a 29 year old Aiden Gillen (who unlike his US counterpart, looked 29) fucking a 15 year old

Also, as has been mentioned several times on here, having a 24 year old teen heartthrob type (Tyler Lautner, to use an easy example is 25) would have turned it into a gay teen drama

That was the story they were trying to tell. Stuart was a creep in many ways, did you watch the british QAF? It wasn't a sweet love story like the American version went with.

You seem to be missing the point. Casting reflects the specific story you are trying to tell. It isn't a moral judgement, it is literally the casting doesn't fit this narrative.

[quote]The American Society of Cinematographers haven't nominated Call Me for their award - which is somewhat surprising

CMBYN and Phantom Thread should be the winners, yet neither are nominated.

That may be your particular shibboleth R511, but many others are upset about the pedo aspects.

So to understand, you feel that casting Hammer completely ruined the movie for you, that you were unable to accept it because all you could think was "but there's no way he's 24" and that was that?

[quote]So to understand, you feel that casting Hammer completely ruined the movie for you, that you were unable to accept it because all you could think was "but there's no way he's 24" and that was that?

Are you always so overdramatic r513?

That wasn't overdramatic given the amount of time you've spent dissing the casting. Clearly it bothered you a lot

R514 this is not the way you do it. Here on the DL you quote him and then you shout:

MARY!

For R514 (and R515) and from the other thread

[quote] CMBYN is unwatchable because the younger guy is too young-looking and Armie looks his actual age.

MARY!!!!

The ASC snub was not a surprise - this movie simply does not have broad-based appeal in Hollywood.

If I'm correct, it won't get a DGA nom tomorrow either, meaning the only Guilds which will have recognized it for the Guild's top prize will be Producers and Writers. The last time a film got Best Picture nom with just Producers and Writers' Guild noms was 127 Hours back in 2010.

And that was when Best Picture had to have exactly 10 nominees. That was only for films in 2009 and 2010. In 2011, they changed the rules yet again. I'm unsure what it is exactly, just that there can be anywhere from 5-10 nominees, depending on the percentages... or something?

[quote]Armie looks his actual age.

No he looks 42

PGA and WGA were the only guilds it was ever expected to get though. (And some people even doubted PGA).

On the other hand, since the extended BP lineup no film has ever missed Best Picture with BAFTA + PGA.

Armie Hammer = too big

Armie Hammer = too old

Despite his handicaps, he did a great job in CMBYN R522

Have Armie ever shown his ass before this film?

Saying the last time a film with only PGA + WGA got a BP nomination was 2010 is kind of a useless stat considering there's films with less than that that got a BP nomination. Room got nothing from the guilds for example.

Films since 2009 which have gotten just the PGA and WGA nom are Foxcatcher (14), Blue Jasmine (13), The Town (10) and 127 Hours (10). Only 127 Hours got a BP nom.

People want to go to either extreme. First there were those who were convinced it was going to sweep the oscars winning best picture and Chalamet best actor.

Now people are trying to claim it won't even be nominated for best picture.

It will score the expected noms, and should win adapted screenplay. We've said this months ago.

R525 Again...there are films that didn't even manage to get PGA + WGA that got the Best Picture nomination after 2010 such as Room two years ago, which got nothing from the guilds.

Additionally, after tomorrow's DGA noms, there should be 10 films which have gotten three or more of the above-the-line Guild noms - Big Sick, Dunkirk, Get Out, I, Tonya, Lady Bird, Molly's Game, Mudbound, The Post, The Shape of Water and 3 Billboards.

Yes - I am aware that there is usually one film a year that is completely ignored by the Guilds which gets a BP nom (for the record it's Room in 15, Selma in 14, Philomena in 13, Amour in 12, Extremely Loud in 11, Winter's Bone in 10 and Blind Side in 09) but I am talking explicitly about films which only gets PGA and WGA nods.

R528 Okay but look at that same year. Brooklyn only got Costume Design Guild and PGA. And it got Best Picture. And that's without BAFTA and Golden Globe like CMBYN has.

Mudbound is Netflix and wont be coming near Best Picture. Molly's Game has very little chance. The Big Sick could happen but it got nothing at BAFTA or Golden Globes which doesn't look like good news.

Molly's Game has Editors, Producers and Writers

Hell or High Water, Whiplash, Her, and Moneyball got in with those

Deadpool, Gone Girl, Nightcrawler, Moonrise Kingdom and Star Trek didn't

But its chances are greater than CMBYN.

Big Sick has Actors, Producers and Writers

Fences, Hidden Figures, Dallas Buyers Club and The Help got in with those

Only Straight out of Compton didn't

So it's chances are even better.

You're acting like the guilds are all that matters. CMBYN was never expected to be a big guild film.

It has:

Gotham Best Picture (Win) Los Angeles Film Critics Best Picture (Win) Indie Spirits Best Picture Golden Globes Best Picture BAFTA Best Picture PGA WGA

No film has ever got all of that and missed.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and think the guilds are all that matters.

I'm not confident about it with screenplay - I worry about how much support it'll be getting given the mess with Luca demanding a credit, and if he's going around badmouthing Ivory (he seems the type who'd do that) and whether Sony would campaign much for Ivory.

You don't know how happy it makes me (and no doubt others) that DL's Aspies know these sorts of bizarre stats.

As long as it gets Best Picture and Molly's Game doesn't, it will easily win Adapted Screenplay. Luca has only said nice things about James in public so I doubt he'd screw it up by bitching behind his back. At the end of the day, he wants his film to be known as an Oscar winning film.

[quote]I didn't picture Elio having Chalamet's American accent, in my mind he was one of those expat kids who speaks English fluently but with a vaguely unidentifiable accent, some words pronounced the British way, less use of American colloquialisms.

When I was writing my post at R466, I had also written something along these lines - that Book Elio is not Americanized as depicted in the film, but that I considered the choice to dispose of that as an acceptable trade-off in order to have Chalamet's wonderful performance. Apparently I deleted the two sentences somehow before posting - that's why there's the non-sequitur 'Again, a trade-off' at the end of my paragraph about Armie as Oliver. So yeah, I'm with you on that - and agree that Elio's 'Europeaness' was part of his attraction for Oliver, as Oliver's Americaness was part of his allure for Elio.

[quote]In terms of the book vs movie, personally I had a greater emotional response to the book than I did to the film.

As did I, though I did love the film. The book is a masterpiece that lingers in the mind long after it's over - Aciman captures something truly profound about regret and memory and loss that the film can't engage with in the same way because it doesn't deal with the flash-forward stuff.

R534 how come?

[quote] Luca has only said nice things about James in public so I doubt he'd screw it up by bitching behind his back. At the end of the day, he wants his film to be known as an Oscar winning film.

Yes, no matter what Luca is saying privately (and I'm sure he's said plenty), publicly he insists they're all friends and that it doesn't matter. There has been some sort of decision made to keep it behind closed doors because they ALL know that Ivory is their best shot at an Oscar, and they knew it even back when the WGA arbitration thing was going on.

Jesus, it’s getting for Best Picture. Records and stats are only good until they’re broken— and every year they are broken come award season. CMBYN’s biggest battle isn’t for Screenplay, which it will win, or Picture, which it will not, but if Chalamet pulls off the upset in Actor.

Hammer and Stuhlbarg canceled each other at Bafta

Thank you R536/R466-- I have enjoyed trading notes with you on the book and the movie. Appreciate the intelligent discussion.

Chalamet is so talented. He completely broke my heart in the last scene. It also made clear to me why I hate this story and why romance between a teen and an older guy only messes up the younger person who is still a kid in many ways. Fact that Armie looks more like his uncle than an older friend only makes it look worse. I will always hate Luca for messing up a perfectly good story with his fucked up casting of Oliver. REason why this movie will be ignored by the awards and reason why it take away from my enjoyment of what could have been and exceptional movie.

At the NBR Awards, @RealChalamet used his acceptance speech to shout out his "hero" Paul Thomas Anderson and the scene in "The Master" that changed his life

R542 It's already been recognized by awards idiot. It won at the Gotham Awards and Los Angeles Film Critics, not to mention the countless critics/breakthrough awards for Chalamet and the multiple nominations elsewhere.

The Bear and Emo love story.

[quote]Thank you [R536]/[R466]-- I have enjoyed trading notes with you on the book and the movie. Appreciate the intelligent discussion.

The same.:)

R466 thanks for answering my questions regarding your interpretation of the book. Eloquent

Thanks for giving me a chance to ramble about it all, R547.:)

There is a bromance stewing amongst all the awards speculation and I'm here for it. I've enjoyed reading your guys' take on the book r547 r466

I’m young enough for this movie to be relatable, unlike some of the posters here, and I thought it sucked. A generic, cold take on gay love.

R550 Cheers, my fellow younger-gay! 🍻

Omg I thought I was alone! R550.

(Unless you’re an eldergay pretending)

[quote]I’m young enough for this movie to be relatable, unlike some of the posters here

What an unnecessary and also off-base dig.

You think a story about someone being a queer youth in the 80s is meant more for a teenager in 2018 than someone who was a queer youth in the 80s?

I’m 25. And I’m queer now, when this movie has been released. I relate to it personally, not just because it stars Twink 1 & Twink 2.

[quote]And I’m queer now, when this movie has been released.

The grammar trolls must be bleeding out of their whatevers!

R550 sorry, you can’t compare being 25 now and in 1983.

On what planet is fuckin Armie Hammer a twink?!

And I'm 30, not sure why you think you are so special for being 25.

Reading the book/watching the movie definitely takes you make to your own adolescence, that is what makes it so relatable, it captures what it feels like to be a kid consumed by a crush so well, and that feeling of first heartbreak.

R552 Excuse me?

Timothée Chalamet and Meryl Streep share a moment on the NBRAwards NBRGala carpet!!

Armie at Golden Globes after winning nothing.

Armie at Golden Globes after winning nothing.

[quote]Hammer and Stuhlbarg canceled each other at Bafta

Rockwell and Harrelson didn't?

LOL @ that 'younger-gay' who thinks that only he and people his age can relate to being a teen and falling for an older, same-sex person. Honey, that's a gay cliche as much as a straight one! Many kids, regardless of their ages/orientation, fall for older, oftentimes unattainable objects of desire. In 1995 (when I was 15) a family friend (who was 43) stayed with us for a few months, while his marriage was in peril. He looked like Dennis Quaid, so naturally as a horny gayling I fell for him. Hard. Unfortunately, nothing sexual happened between us, but he used to allow me to hang out in his room with him or to tag along on his errands, and one time he even took me to meet his only sister and her family in Long Island for Columbus Day weekend. Actually, the nephew (who was a year or two older than I) got in trouble with the police, so he went down there to help out. I insisted on tagging along. :-P He eventually left because of me. I think he could sense that I really liked him that way and distanced himself. I mean, he hadn't yet made up with his wife, but he rented an apartment in the meantime even though he had been staying with us for free. I have no idea what he told my mom.

Michael Stuhlbarg is an amazing actor. It’s too bad he’s overlooked, he deserves more recognition.

He's having quite a moment this year with a role in three big Oscar contender movies. Kudos to him.

Bump.

The movie opens locally tomorrow, so I picked up a copy of the book. Then I read all the posts here. Given the hype, I thought I'd like the book more than I did. It seems to be more about power and obsession than it does about love. Even before learning that the author is apparently straight, I thought that the physical sections read more clinical than romantic. You top me, I top you. You lean over, I stick my finger in your butt.

I thought the most touching part was the final section, which is apparently not included the movie. During the couple's days in Rome, they finally seem to connect, particularly when Oliver takes care of the drunken Elio. The flash forward scenes to the present also seem more authentic than the those in the parts set in Italy.

From the posts above, it really seems as though Armie Hammer was miscast as Oliver. He certainly is beautiful, though.

R568 report back when you see the movie. I found it extraordinary powerful and moving. I’m reading the book for the first time, so we’ll see whether I agree with your assessments.

r568, enjoy the film. It's lovely and you will enjoy it a whole lot more if you don't become stressed about the appearance of age or hung up on what the characters supposed ages are. The film definitely captures the spirit of the book, but doesn't supplant it and both exist in service of the other. It's a well executed and mostly faithful adaptation of the novel that is beautifully shot, paced and acted.

No DGA nom for Call Me By Your Name

Luca isn't a member of the DGA so couldn't be nominated

DGA - Nolan, Peele, Gerwig, McDonagh, Del Toro

I think we get 1 surprise nominee at the Oscars Baker or Luca

Luca was eligble for a nomination. R572 is an idiot.

Aw, R575 is an angry troll today trying to spread bad news where there is none. No, he wasn't eligible, but like I said in the DGA Awards thread, feel free to try and find him on the DGA membership list yourself

You don't have to be a DGA member to be nominated, moron.

Since you're trolling, I can't be bothered to put much effort into this, so taking the first example off Google - nominations for a miniseries or television movie - and what does it say?

[QUOTE]Director Eligibility: Entries must be directed by a DGA member under a DGA Agreement

You do get the DGA is a union right? And the awards are basically to promote membership? They're hardly going to want to give awards to people who are making movies outside of their union agreements, are they?

Why he's not a DGA member?

R579 He's never filmed in America, has he?

Because he's a cunt.

Cunty Luca getting outcunted by the DGA

R580, no he's never filmed in America. To join the DGA you have to first prove that you have a contract to work on a project with what is called a "DGA signatory employer" (a production company that has agreed to abide by the DGA union rules). Given that Luca has only worked in Italy for Italian production companies, it's highly unlikely that any of them are DGA signatory employers, despite which company handles the distribution in the U.S.

Acording to Pete Hammond, Luca WAS eligible. And I think he knows more about this stuff than you.

He only says he wasn't on the list, not that he was eligible. If you're so desperate to prove me wrong, email the DGA and ask them if a non-member is eligible or not. For all I know, Hammond doesn't know Luca isn't a DGA member.

Luca was never going to a DGA nom eligible or not. I mean no one was expecting him to, that would have been quite a surprise.

Kris Tapley said eligible on twitter, but I know that’s not the DGA confirmation you’re looking for.

Then I have no problem admitting I was wrong. Simple as that, just wanted confirmation, rather than someone just saying "you're wrong".

Seems odd they require nominees for television awards to be members, not films.

In early 2003, I remember there was a mini-uproar when DOWNTON ABBEY won the Best Ensemble award at SAG, even though it was not made under the terms of SAG-AFTRA or something. Same reason why BEASTS OF THE SOUTHERN WILD was deemed ineligible for SAG the same fucking year!

"But that's not the time to talk about it right now." Really? Do better @RealChalamet .

Poor Armie, you could see Armie's worried face as Amanpour was asking Timmy that question. Timmy's ability to shapeshift from sweet to deadpan is scary. I think Armie will learn more by Timmy by his side than the other way around.

Does anyone get the feeling that "emotionally" Armie is younger than Timmy?

[QUOTE}Timmy's ability to shapeshift from sweet to deadpan is scary

It pretty much looked like he switched into PR mode and was trying to remember what his agent had told him to say if it came up.

Pretty sure he knew that question was coming. Would not be surprised if his publicist put it in so he could go on record with an answer.

He's given that almost exact answer before, so yeah. You're likely right it was put in as he knew the pressure would be on again after Greta apologised.

Part 17

Nominations

out on

January 23rd

Stay

tuned...

Fingers crossed