My Sociopath Son Killed My Daughter

Sad fucking story. The mother is really beautiful.

Holy shit, a real life Michael Myers. If he gets out of prison in 20 years, he’ll probably try to murder his new baby sister, too.

“While Lee describes him as “manipulative” and “narcissistic,” she is quick to explain how her maternal instinct means she puts her love for her son above her anger.”

I doubt she’d forgive a daughter brutally murdering her son.

Yeah this chick seemed like such a winner too. Here's a fucking tip: if you get pregnant while on heroin. have a fucking abortion. This whole bullshit, "oh he saved me, I quit drugs because I was pregnant with him". Also, maybe have kids with the same fucking person, or you know what, don't have anymore kids at all. Now she has a replacement baby that the kid will want to kill soon. He's a straight up psycho like Kevin, he killed the sister to hurt the mom.

Agree with R3 and R4. There is something "off" about this woman. I wonder if there were more troubled people in her family tree.

I wonder what they chat about during visits.

I saw this documentary and agree there is something "off" about this woman (the least of which is all her hideous tattoos). At one point she evidently spoke with a noted child psychiatrist, Dr. Park Dietz. He told her if her son ever does get out to change her name and move as far away as she can!!

Is she M2F?

No R8. She's plump with short hair.

The drugs could have affected the baby in her womb. I haven't seen the docu. Any mention of the sperm donor?

r5 Her mom hired a hit man to kill her dad and got away with it, her family seems like a bloodline that needs to be stopped and not carried on any further.

That grocery store cunt deserved a tire iron to the skull

What's the name of that documentary about that southern family that are all bottom feeders, every last one, from generation to generation?

She's a mess and dragged two kids into it.

Fry her ass, too.

Wonderful Whites of West Virginia r13?

[quote] That grocery store cunt deserved a tire iron to the skull

That grocery store cunt deserves a medal, and a street named after her.

Drug addicts who refuse to stop should be forcibly sterilized.

This is one of the best articles on psychopathy in children I've read:

[quote]"Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath?

[quote]By the time he turned 5, Michael had developed an uncanny ability to switch from full-blown anger to moments of pure rationality or calculated charm — a facility that Anne describes as deeply unsettling. “You never know when you’re going to see a proper emotion,” she said. She recalled one argument, over a homework assignment, when Michael shrieked and wept as she tried to reason with him. “I said: ‘Michael, remember the brainstorming we did yesterday? All you have to do is take your thoughts from that and turn them into sentences, and you’re done!’ He’s still screaming bloody murder, so I say, ‘Michael, I thought we brainstormed so we could avoid all this drama today.’ He stopped dead, in the middle of the screaming, turned to me and said in this flat, adult voice, ‘Well, you didn’t think that through very clearly then, did you?’ ”

I had a brother that a psychologist said was Antisocial (but wasn't diagnosed with it, of course, at that age), when he was just a tween. Being a child, too, I didn't know what the word meant for a long time. However, it turned out, that the psychologist was right.

The brother was killed by the police, decades later, following a stand-down a few years ago. I only found out about it recently, having been raised separately from the family (taken away by the State, and settled in a far away location, as a young teen).

Why was I googling my brother's name, decades after really knowing him, you ask? (I would google him, every great now and then.) Because, he STILL scared the hell out of me. For years and years, I thought he would show up at my door one day and kill/harm. He threatened to do so, and I knew he meant it - even as others around me scoffed when I tried to talk about it with them.

The first thing I thought, upon reading the news about my brother, was, "He's been headed that way his whole life." Then, I felt guilty for thinking that.

I don't know if any of you spent any time with a child that is already showing florid psycho characteristics, but let me tell you, it is FREAKY. It's... like something that should never happen, and a part of you doesn't want to believe these things are happening, but there's no way to deny it, either. It is truly horrifying and surreal, to see this coming from a child.

You sound exhausting, R19

Wow r19! That is a crazy fucking story! And I absolutely believe people are born that way, this chick's mom was a psycho too. Most people, in that circumstance, would just not have children, but Charity Lee must have some progeny, goddamn it! and fuck anyone who disagrees!

No, R20. I would v. rarely bring this up with anyone, keeping it to myself once I learned, when young, that people don't understand (and I wouldn't want them to), but some things... there's just no nice, pleasant way to put it. After all, it was an intense experience, but it IS in the past.

I hear you, R21. Time to close up shop, at the point.

Give me back those shoes, LeRoy!

I also saw this doc on ID. That NYPOST story doesn't come close to explaining the totally bizarre way murder has surrounded this woman. She's definitely "off" but it's difficult to figure out exactly what it is..

Her mother is a real piece of work. She had her husband killed, but she was tried and acquitted. She then took over his trucking company and became very wealthy.

This kid will definitely kill again when he gets out.

Mom hasn't learned her lesson. She will petition the court for his early release and move him back into the home when he gets out.

Jesus, what a horrible story.

r25 Yeah, she and Bart Whittaker's dad, like we should be inspired that they have forgiven them. That's great that you created this demon spawn and then were benevolent enough to forgive them, but we really don't give a rat's ass that you have made peace with them in your heart, and we shouldn't be expected to also.

Thanks for sharing r19, ignore 20.

Wow, R19 - that's scary. My younger brother is also sociopathic. He has been in jail for years. He and my 3 siblings were all raised in the same family home, pretty stable. But, from the time he was a very little boy, I remember he was off, and seemed evil to me. He killed a dog when he was about 7 - for pure fun - tied it to a leash and ran over it with a riding lawnmower. He told everyone it was an accident, but I knew damn good and well it wasn't. That was just the beginning of a life time of deranged stuff. He's now 30 and still in jail, thank god, for various crimes.

Here's the doc. Her newest kid was born with a bad heart, don't know how many ways nature can tell you not to breed.

What if kid #2 turns out to be a sociopath as well, mom?

DOH!

Kid #2 was murdered by kid #1 so no worries of that, but kid 3 is off to a bad start with a tricky ticker.

The end of r18's post sounds scary.

This kid, who still can't be named, killed his dad and his dad's friend for no fucking reason and he is about to be off probation and turned loose again. I don't have high hopes for him. And the mother in this doc is just a raging narcissistic asshole. She makes a point to say how her replacement kid will have no contact with his dad and that's how she wanted it, she planned to be a single parent. etc. Fuck her.

Reminds me of this.

the mother looks like a mannish rose mcgowan

That was positively chilling, R18.

Sorry y’all. The mom is cute. She’s a complete disaster as a human, but she’s cute.

R38 - she is, but too much eyebrow tweezing. That has got to stop.

There's a part of me that also feels sorry for this kid - he's very, very disturbed, but beneath that psycho exterior appears to be an on-again, off-again good heart.

Let's all go visit him.

Yikes, R40. Turn those detective tendencies off plz 😂

I don't know. I felt a lot of compassion for her. No I wouldn't say she was the healthiest of individuals, but holy shit, what a tragedy.

She seemed to be always on a high simmer, like she's very close to the edge at all times, but can anyone blame her?

Let's say you were the parent of a little sociopath. You worry that he is going to kill you or other children of yours. You can't commit him to an institution -- they don't exist anymore. How would you get rid of him?

Next go around at life, she should choose houseplants.

r43 But she could have, she did and the institution told her he was homicidal and she took him out of it, she then says "he still would have killed someone". Maybe, maybe not. Quit fucking breeding though, you're an asshole and make bad choices. And note the new kid, of course named "Phoenix" (gag) has long blond hair and earrings, like a replacement for the girl, no doubt he will go the route of Jazz jennings.

The psychotic son looks hot. And he has an IQ of 141. Who knows what he'll do when he gets out of prison.

He raped the 4 year old sister before he stabbed her to death r46 so maybe he'll go work with kids.

R47 - how do you know that? It didn't mention that in the documentary.

The mom says it in one of the articles r48. There was semen all over the kid's underwear and the bed too.

R49 - that makes it much, much worse. Not that the murder isn't bad enough, but that's even more deranged.

It doesn't say that anywhere, R49.

[quote] But she could have, she did and the institution told her he was homicidal and she took him out of it,

I didn't see anything in the OP article saying that

Through mandatory therapy, he will learn how to better blend in, and know what to say to make people think he's changed. He will kill again.

In one story, and in another she said he raped her, even if he just dry humped her, fucking foul: "Lee tried to believe Paris’ version of events. That changed when she got Ella’s autopsy report weeks later. “Before reading that, I had no idea Ella had suffered as much as she did,” she told me. Then, she read reports that detectives had discovered semen on the bed where they found Ella and inside the shorts Paris was wearing that night."

and it's in the doc that she says he was in an institution and she took him out of it r52.

When the serial killer was finally incarcerated, his aunt had given an interview.

She'd recalled an account of her babysitting a 5-YO Ted, where she needed to stay over for the evening. Though she'd placed him in his bedroom earlier in the evening (his bedtime), she was later awakened that evening by his placing large kitchen knives immediately next to her under her bed blankets.

Ted Bundy @ R55.

I think the mom is off and obviously needs children in her life to feel complete. Even in the documentary, she says once she got pregnant, she had no intentions in staying with the dad of her third child. Luckily, her mom is wealthy due to a questionable murder of the husband. The son will more than likely kill again but at least the mom is realistic. She says she's afraid of her son and has no desire for him to be around her third child. Yes, she loves him but she knows he needs help which he isn't getting in prison. And yeah, her son is cute and smart, but yes, I don't believe he's gonna turn his life around. When he gets out, he's gonna snap again, I think.

I too read no mentioned of a rape of the 4 year old, nor did she say it in the documentary so unless someone can provide a link to that source, I'm gonna go ahead and say that rape claim is false.

R57, see R54. He may not have actually raped her though, he may have just jerked off over her dead body, which is almost as bad.

Or he could have spontaneously orgasmed while killing her.

wow, so the mom takes her son (who's having behavior and mental issues) to go an live with her mother, a murderer? Brilliant.

Or he was an adolescent boy with wet dreams who doesn't change his underwear. Stop making shit up, the story is harrowing enough on its own.

She probably doesn't like to talk about it since she encourages a relationship between him and her new kid and she doesn't want to look like a fucking enabling kook but I read it on something she said and also here, which I assume she okay'd the writing of:

In my research for this web blog I ran across a woman with a son who is a psychopathic murderer, just as my son is a murderer, but her son not only killed someone, he killed and raped her own four year old daughter, Ella, in 2007.

An 18-year-old who, at age 11, murdered his father's pregnant fiancée in her sleep, has been recently released.

I find child murderers to be morbidly fascinating. There's the whole question of if they're "salvageable" or not.

There's been cases of kids who killed, or kids who were deeply disturbed, but later became fairly well adjusted, law abiding adults. For example, 10-year-old killer Mary Bell (never killed again) and the little girl from that Child of Rage documentary who liked to sexually molest her brother (she grew up and I think became a therapist, of all things).

Here's a link to an article where seemingly Charity herself in the comment section contradicts the writer by stating that her son did not rape her daughter but does say he was sexually abusing her:

From the article (the word "raped" has a double-line through it):

San Antonio's Charity Lee has certainly earned a right to permanent front-row seats inside the killing chamber. Her own father was murdered when she was only six. Then, as a young parent herself, her daughter (shown at right in a courtesy photo) was raped sexually abused and murdered in 2007 by her son. Perhaps because of the nature of the intra-family assault, she has instead joined the anti-death penalty camp.

From the comments section:

Charity • 6 years ago Couple of points to clarify. My son did NOT rape his sister but he was sexually abusing her. I also do not believe offenders should "suffer". The quote was a person should "suffer the consequences" of their crime but they should not be treated inhumanely because they have committed a crime.

gharman Charity • 6 years ago first: my apologies for any errors. i will change rape to "sexually assaulted". however, the quotes are all 100 percent accurate right off my recorder — but thanks for clarifying your intention/conviction.

Thank you r64! I knew I read that and was not "making shit up".

Who the hell are you accusing of "making shit up," stupid twat at R61?

There's linked articles in the previous posts. The mother herself says the victim was being sexually abused. And since investigators found it noteworthy that there was the presence of semen at the murder scene and in the kid's pants, this indicates that it was relevant to the crime.

[quote] He raped the 4 year old sister before he stabbed her to death

Even if it was "just" sexual abuse these are the offenders who DO NOT get rehabilitated. These are the offenders who do it again. They are the most dangerous. Sexual abuse followed by murder of the child is as bad an offense to deal as you can get. He probably needs to be put down. Definitely kept under supervision - maybe for life if that's possible.

Wow, so many people on this thread desperately trying to make out this kid is not the fiend that he actually is. Hmm, wonder why.

R68 - doesn't sound like that to me - sounds like most people are calling him what he is - a crazed killer and psycho.

Geez, the article at r54 is even more chilling than the documentary video...the revelation of sexual abuse, the vicious things he said to his mother when she revealed she knew that he committed the crime on purpose (as opposed to having a hallucination). When he does get out of prison, he'll have no money and no place to live. (His grandma will probably be dead by then.) At that point, he'll have nothing to lose, and could very well go after his mother or go after his brother...just to hurt his mother.

Yet another reason we've elected not to have/adopted children. Thank Gawd. One never knows what the future may hold.

In the picture at R54 Paris is ten and has an arm tatoo.

I wonder if Paris was abused, too.

For those who watched the documentary you know that he is very convincing. I almost felt guilty for wondering if he was sincere in his expression of remorse. Then I read the article at r54 and realized he's lying through his teeth. His high intelligence makes him extra dangerous.

R58, there's no evidence of that being mentioned anywhere. Like I said, unless someone provides a source, I'm gonna believe a lot of y'all are just adding bull shit just to make the story more gruesome.

R62...a web blog is not a credible source. Y'all just making up shit in this thread. Provide some real sources. Some news sources of doctors and scientist, and body examiners saying there was semen at the scene, saying she was raped. Why are y'all lying? And why are y'all posting links to people who haven't any sources, and heresay?

R75/R76 = fucking weirdo

Are you Paris or one of his prison lovers? You're strangely invested in discrediting any claims that he sexually assaulted his victim, despite the fact the mother SAYS SO HERSELF that he did.

I love DL but man, some of the posters on here really do seriously give me the creeps (and they tend to come out of the woodwork on these kinds of threads).

From the mother's victim impact statement:

[quote]What I know about my son is this. He is sick. He could care less that he [bold]sexually assaulted[/bold] and murdered Ella. He has a dark side that is dormant right now, but my son is dangerous.

R77 Ignore the troll, I don't feel the need to justify anything to anyone who says "y'all".

R76, go do some research and shut the fuck up.

I did research and NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THE 4 YEAR OLD WAS RAPED!!!!!!!!!! Y'ALL ARE LYINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG!

Provide me some sources and I'll shut the fuck up until then...here I am.

"Ooh Papa Tooney, we got a looney."

I say y'all all the time and think he should have been put down like a rabid pit bull, but you know, thirteen and all...

I tried to watch this documentary but only watched parts of it, because no one involved in this sick story was sympathetic except for the poor little girl who got killed and the sickly new baby. The kid who killed his sister is a sociopath; by the way, a sociopath CANNOT change. Sociopathy is incurable. He'll be one until he dies. The mother of this freak is totally fucked up, and no wonder. Her mother is a sociopath, too; the evil cunt admitted that she 'charmed" and "manipulated (sociopaths are experts at charming and manipulating people) the jury that acquitted her for the murder of her husband (of course she did it). A policeman who talked to her at the time of the murder noticed how "pleased" she seemed to be with herself and after her acquittal she was photographed "beaming" in happiness. Just hearing her talk it was obvious that she and her murderer grandson were cut out of the same piece of cloth. ALL the the people in this mess are crazy scum: the son, his mother and her mother. Fuck them all.

[quote]NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THE 4 YEAR OLD WAS RAPED!!!!!!!!!! Y'ALL ARE LYINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG!

JFC. I'm getting flashbacks to that time Luka Magnotta supposedly posted here on DL. *shudder*

In the book "We Need To Talk About Kevin (a good movie was made out of it starring Tilda Swinton)", a woman is left alone and ostracized after her sociopathic son (he seemed to be that way since birth and no doubt was) kills her daughter, her husband and several of his class mates. At the end of the novel, despite everything her son has done, despite his abominable behavior his entire life, she decides she will be there for him when he gets out of prison, keeping his room ready for him. Parents tend to do that, stick by their offspring no matter how evil they are. I think this woman will probably do that. And I think when he gets out of prison he'll probably kill somebody else. This little monster should NEVER be let out of prison.

r85 How funny, I just got done watching that again because of this thread and I read the book many times. I think in "Kevin" it was also that she could never have another kid and he was really all she had, same as with Bart Whittaker in Texas. I don't know why this mom is doing it and I found her annoying, especially when she calls the prison and is adamant about saying his name because "he has a name, he's not just a number" Meh, whatever, you can sell that bullshit to yourself all day but don't expect us to play along and look for the redemption in him.

Here’s the documentary r63 referenced, “Child of Rage” . Six years old and admittedly wanted to kill her adoptive parents and her brother, as well as harmed animals. She was sexually abused by her bio father at very young age (mother died when she was one year old) which seemed to be the cause of her sociopathy, as well as neglect before she was adopted. Just watch, she is ice freaking cold at her young age talking about her feelings and what she has done.

The mother looks way too pleased with herself in the picture in R64.

The story is tragic but I question her motives for being so public. Giving an interview is one thing but making a career out of it seems opportunistic.

I've learned to be a little leary of 'advocates', much of the time.

The original link described Charity Lee as "A former heroin addict who kicked drugs shortly before conceiving her son".

I don't believe for a second that she just happened to kick drugs just before getting knocked it. Real life junkies don't work that way -- they get knocked up, THEN they get clean [if they ever do].

Bart Whittaker has done some interesting writing from his prison cell, including this post on "Minutes Before Six", a blog he created for fellow Death Row inmates [Texas inmates are typically executed at 6pm in the Huntsville Unit]:

Younger Sigourney Weaver

Holy shit, I just read one of the stories that Bart Whittaker wrote and it's fucking amazing!

Why does the kid have an arm band tat at 10?

Yeah it's too bad that Bart's bright light will finally be extinguished in February. Oh Bart, we hardly knew ye! Not it was actually his 20 year old brother that we hardly knew.

holy shit! that story makes me feel sorry for him.

[quote] Just hearing her talk it was obvious that she and her murderer grandson were cut out of the same piece of cloth. ALL the the people in this mess are crazy scum: the son, his mother and her mother. Fuck them all.

I don't think the mother is scum. She's never killed anyone, didn't/doesn't abuse her children and is honest about Paris and how dangerous he is.

It is too bad for the world really that this family can't be studied. Clearly, there is a heredity element to sociopathology. Is that already known in the medical field? And what's really creepy, in the grandmother's case, she has the kind where she simply has no empathy. She can kill if she wants to and it serves her, but she's able to control herself. Whereas, Paris talked about a desire that was intensifying over time. He had fantasized about killing people since he was 8 years old.

[quote]The original link described Charity Lee as "A former heroin addict who kicked drugs shortly before conceiving her son". I don't believe for a second that she just happened to kick drugs just before getting knocked it. Real life junkies don't work that way -- they get knocked up, THEN they get clean [if they ever do].

I doubt you know any former junkies. I do and I believe her because she describes the 1st year of clean time as being miserable and how she was contemplating suicide. Anyone is who is a former addict knows how hard that first year is. The way she described it was too spot on to be a lie.

We Need To Talk About Kevin.

That's not a tattoo on his arm. It's more of a brand. There's a lot more to this story that has yet to be told. It's no surprise that the grandmother got away with murder and is wealthy. She's and the jurors, lawyers & judge are most likely part of the same "club."

Missed R85 somehow.

That's a temp tattoo. They make them in armbands these days, tramp stamps, too. I was ashamed to see these fake tattoos on my brother's kids, but at least they are temp

No, it's a permanent tattoo.

Prominent 'Donate' links on all the killer's writing sites, noted.

the killer is a damn good writer.

[quote] . She's and the jurors, lawyers & judge are most likely part of the same "club."

Sale on tin foil at the Dollar Store for you.

Um, maybe there just wasn't enough believable evidence as in a snitch the jury couldn't believe. Yes, good lawyers help but even without expensive lawyers the prosecution doesn't always won when the defendant is actually guilty.

[quote]Who the hell are you accusing of "making shit up," stupid twat at [R61]?

Probably you, if you are the one who made up, or lied, or exaggerated the circumstances surrounding this girl's death. Was that you who did that? If so, then it was you who I am accusing of making shit up.

[quote] She's and the jurors, lawyers & judge are most likely part of the same "club"

Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy and the parents, jurors, judge and lawyers are all in on it. Because that would be so easy to do.

Not really, r106.

The record shown indicates that he is ELIGIBLE for parole in 2027, but not entitled to it automatically. He has to apply and may be turned down. I think the intentional death of a young family member that did not happen as the result of a fight, particularly if it was combined with any sort of sexual abuse, would negate release in 2027. He would be age 34 and could very easily kill again. If his mother were to testify against his release, it probably wouldn't be granted.

Did he say he wants to get out? If he is truly sincere about how sorry he is for his actions, he will lobby the court to keep him in prison, "where he can get help."

Yeah, he said he wants a second chance to prove that he is reformed. And of course, he is not sincere in expressing remorse for his actions. He hates his mother and is cold as ice. He presents very well, though. He also makes a point of emphasizing how young he was when he committed the crime.

Can you imagine being that baby-sitter? I would have felt horribly guilty-manipulated by a 13 year old to leave so he could commit murder.

I would be more pissed r111, that his mom knew how capable he was of murder and didn't fucking tell me about it when I agreed to the gig.

13 is old enough to be left alone, it's also old enough to babysit, it's what, 8th grade? Also Charity talked about how incredibly smart Paris is, so the fact that she even had a babysitter was probably just to keep him from molesting his sister, but she didn't tell the babysitter that or I'm sure she wouldn't have left. She's as creepy as her creepy kid.

If I was his mother I'd get an apartment in a high rise with doormen/security guards. Much harder to break in and kill her, as opposed to a house with a bunch of possible entry points. Break a window, enter house. The end.

What's weird is that Charity, Paris' mom, decided to pack up and move to be closer to her own sociopathic mom. The one who, with her sociopathic grandson, tried to sue Charity three times.

I understood in the documentary why Charity felt the need to forgive her own fucked up mother the way she had forgiven her own fucked up son, but I don't see why she chose to move to be closer to her, unless Charity needs free babysitting or something. Even then... Charity may not be a sociopath like all in the family, but I bet she has some tendencies, like recklessness.

Her mom is rich r115, someone needs to pay for Charity's tattoos.

True. One thing you gotta hand to the sociopaths in this world. They do great in busine$$.

This is a later San Antonio Current article. He apparently assaulted peers in juvenile lock-up. He also hacked into the prison computer system during his time in juvie. He wants to be a writer and, at 16 or 17 was communicating with New York literary journals through the computer system he wasn't supposed to be using.

She was advised to keep her address secret from him, but now that she's living with his murderous grandma and they alternate visits, he knows where she lives. She was the one who asked that he be put in adult prison when he was adjudicated at age 18.

Perhaps Charity went back to her mom's house because she grew up on the property and she wants to give her son a sense of family, provided by a grandmother and an aunt. She's probably living rent free, which gives her time to perform her public service work. I feel bad for Charity, and I don't know what I'd do in her situation. She has to keep talking to her older son (ending her phone calls with "I love you") because she doesn't want to do anything to make him mad at her or her younger son. She needs to stay in her mom's good graces, because grandma probably gets a little high in provoking drama, and she'll probably fight for her grandson's parole. Also, she doesn't want to get cut from mom's will. Let's face it, not to be greedy, but how fucking sad would it be if the older lady died and left all of Charity's dad's money to Charity's stepsister. I wouldn't put it past that lady to split the money 50/50 between Charity's stepsister and Charity's psychopathic son...just to screw over Charity and have the last laugh.

I tried to post this earlier but don't see it. All these stories make me less trusting of people in general. So many sociopaths out there.

It's so devious and cruel, not to mention convenient, that he blames his mother's relapse for his horrific crimes. He knew all too well that there would be a certain amount of sympathy for him if he played the victim of a neglectful mother. He also knew she would be judged harshly for being a weak parent who couldn't control her addiction enough to put the welfare of her kids first.

But the fact is there a millions of kids who have had it MUCH tougher than this whiny psycho, and they never committed murder........or anything even close. Waaaaah, Mommy had a 6 month relapse. Waaaaah!!! JFC, get over it, loser.

Most sociopaths have a monotonous tone to their voices. They can be flatter and be charming but it's like they are dull people underneath the voice.

Again I say: ALL the people in this mess are horror stories: fucked up Charity, sociopathic Paris (what a name to give a boy child) and the murdering grandma. I think another family member will definitely end up dead. Maybe Charity and her murder mom will have an altercation and one of them will kill the other. Maybe Paris will manipulate his way out of prison and come back and kill Charity or his little brother (I think he and his sociopathic grandma would get along pretty well). This is one vile group of people, truly the family from hell.

It would be a sad irony if the little brother turns out to be a sociopath as well, and he's the one who finally kills the mom.

“I've learned to be a little leary of 'advocates', much of the time.”

TRUTH.

Charity reminds me of a woman my dad dated for a long time. She was sincere and wanted to be a good person but she was a colossal fuck-up and very, very damaged. Her life has been nothing but tragedy. My sister and I wondered about her and did some googling. More fucking tragedy. She is also an “advocate” and “activist”. I suppose she could help by understanding what someone might be going through, but her judgment is seriously off.

As I do with Charity, I wish her well, but man, I wouldn’t get anywhere near her.

Wait until son number 2 is old enough to figure out he's being raised by the Mansons.

The title sounds like a Lifetime movie.

R97 she left her defenseless 4-year old daughter at home with her troubled older child.

The face of a killer.

R128 she actually left them with a babysitter (who was mostly there for the 4-year-old, since 13-year-olds are old enough to be left alone). The 13-year-old convinced the babysitter to leave.

Anyone else jolted by the home movies and all the warning signs that leapt out at you that this kid was not normal? How the mother could miss those red flags is astounding.

I thought she didn't miss the warning signs, R131. I thought someone said she took him out of an institution.

Yeah, he tried to attack her with a knife when he was eleven or something. That's when he went to an institution. They recommended he stay and get further treatment, but she took him out.

Actually, I think it was when he was 12. I'm pretty sure she said he killed Ella a year later.

[quote] she has to keep talking to her older son (ending her phone calls with "I love you") because she doesn't want to do anything to make him mad at her or her younger son.

Noen of this will matter. Her son will do what he wants. He is probably getting a thrill out of letting his mom be loving knowing he plans to hurt her again or kill her.

Her mom ain't leaving her shit. Her mom is a psychopath as well and she is also probably getting some pleasure thinking her daughter is trying to stay in her good graces - and all for naught. She'll leave more money to the son - the killer son - than she will to Charity.

The only thing to do with sociopaths is stay away from them and have a gun at the ready.

But the behaviour was evident years before. Why did she wait until he pulled a knife on her? You generally know by the time they are 3 or 4 if your kid doesn't like you or your personalities don't gel.

I think if I had a psychopath kid I would keep him drugged all the time.

I wonder is there an effective course of treatment to manage a psychopathic child? Have there been any documented success stories?

I don't see the beauty of this woman that other posters do. She looks like your garden variety dyke to me, with overplucked eyebrows.

Yes and no r 138. There was a really scary article I read about an experimental facility for teenage sociopaths. They discovered that the usual deterrents used to curb bad behavior don't work on sociopaths, it makes them act worse. Instead they found that the best way to get a sociopath to participate in his own rehabilitation is to keep the punishment/reward system ego based. I can't quite remember what that entailed, just that I think it was to focus on the rewards for good behavior rather than the punishments for bad.

They also used one on one and group therapy to help sociopaths understand that they don't think or feel like average people so they have to make deliberate choices to act in empathetic ways, since emotionally they will never be guided to.

One guy was eventually released and he did well for a few years, but ended up back in court after he beat up his wife.

One of the people who worked in the facility said something like, ultimately if we can get it so that these people never kill again that is a success.

I'll see if I can hunt down the article.

If I remember one of the articles correctly, it was an expert who diagnosed him as a sociopath who told her that if her son was alive and free, she and her younger son would never be safe since sociopaths can't be rehabilitated. He was the one who told her to change her name and move, and never contact him again.

At least part of the reason she continues in contact with her own mother is definitely for the money. Beyond some type of role as an advocate, there's never a mention of Charity's job and yet she's shown at different times in the documentary living comfortably, driving a new Volvo wagon and a new Mercedes coupe, etc.

I'm certain a woman I worked with has this condition. At first I just thought she was on the autism spectrum. She has all of the traits, egomaniac, complete lack of empathy for others, zero understanding of social norms, cold and calculating stalking of her victims, an insane compulsion to be vindictive and triumph in any interaction. I sat in astonishment one day as she coldly described how her diabetic brother had just been informed that his leg would have to be amputated. She didn't even try to mimic concern. She gave the most ghoulish recount of how she told him she was happy it happened to him. It was almost if she was picturing the sawing off the limb and mentally savoring his predicament. She moved in with an asshole who is divorced and has a kid. I keep expecting to read about her one day. I can't believe she is out in regular society.

Here is the article I was talking about at r140, in case anyone is interested.

Her "making amends" with her mom is clearly for the money. It's obvious she doesn't work, yet lives very well. She's had a lot of time to wallow and steep herself in misery.

What's the story with the sperm donors for these kids? Were all of her kids fathered by the same man? Do any of them have personality disorders? I bet they could add some insight.

I'm wondering, had she lived, would the daughter have turned out as damaged as the son. The abuse she suffered at the hands of the brother could be enough to cause a disorder. According to both the mother and grandmother, she loved attention and was very outspoken. The grandmother told a story about how, after hearing her mom bad mouth the grandmother, the granddaughter told her, "my mom hates you, but I just want you to know that I love you." At first, I laughed and thought out of the mouths of babes, but then I wondered if she made the statement out of a lack of self-awareness, a common trait in sociopaths, or perhaps she wanted to manipulate the grandmother by pitting her against her daughter.

From the doc. Three different fathers. Paris' dad's a schizophrenic. Ella's is an alcoholic. Don't know about the youngest.

R146, thanks. I'm less sympathetic to the mother now that I know she willingly mated with a schizophrenic and may have been using right before or during the pregnancy. I'm guessing because of her "family values," abortion was never an option.

This documentary was absolutely riveting. I hate that word, but it was.

Charity Lee's mother is a fucking sociopath herself. I am surprised that no one here mentioned her interview near the end of the doc when she said that her entire family manipulates people and each other. That they are all "spoiled rotten" and that she just no longer has a "company to manipulate, truck drivers to manipulate, and a JURY TO MANIPULATE!"

I was up and down on Charity throughout the doc, and just when I decided that I respected her after she admits that she knows that her mother called the hit on her father, she then ultimately decides to move to Georgia to have a relationship with her mother!!!!! WHAT THE FUCK???

That son of hers will be out to kill Charity when he is released. He has a 40 year sentence and I suspect he will be out of jail within 10-15 years.

That kid was insanely intelligent and well spoken, and he is evil incarnate if you ask me.

What a generally loathsome group of characters. I still think Charity has a lot of good in her, but if I saw any of these motherfuckers on the street, I would run for the hills.

I didn't see anything in Paris that indicated he would do it again. He admits he was fucked up in the head when he murdered Ella and he did have remorse. Says he wishes he could turn back the clock. But he can't. He has to live with his guilt for the rest of his life.

Charity was right, though, about something she said toward the end-- if he was redeemable when he was locked up at 13 y/o, he sure won't be after 30 years in prison. That in itself can turn you crazy.

R18, this was good too. Apologies if already posted.

Agree, R19. They are very dangerous and can be oddly adult, like a switch flipping. Calm, unemotional threats to kill family members from tweens, scary as hell.

I wonder what the boy said in the call to the classmate?

R147, both bad choices. But these genes appear when mothers have done neither of those things.

Good point, R145.

There are a lot of them, R142. They often seek positions of power over others - judges, cops, teachers, military intelligence, politicians, etc.

If you can't get away, don't expect much help from others, who rightly fear them. These people are often promoted up in companies, so as to get them away, but without the former boss risking becoming a target. They are like the kid with the magnifying glass and the ants, but to them, humans are ants to fuck with...

To develop genuine empathy, R138? No. But they do grow up and can fake it if they choose, they are all around us, esp in positions of power.

Video of teen recently diagnosed as a sociopath-

This guy notoriously killed close family, including a toddler, for $. While he was incarcerated the WP came out with an extraordinary series of 4 articles completely trashing the family of the mom of the dead baby. JB's paper is known to have "associations" and a co-worker speculated someone like this could well be a useful asset of an alphabet agency. The articles could have influenced potential jurors to blame the victim, etc. Happily, it did not work.

He is known to have killed his mother, a baby mama and a toddler, all for life insurance money. He had another son, wonder if he is a psychopath too? His mom was killed, so if he is not with family, he is in the system.

In my experience, these people are often physically attractive and they can be superficially charming until they drop the mask and turn on a dime. The genes are there in kids with great pre-natal and home situations, they just seem wired to feel rage and to lack empathy, since they are tiny. Bless the folks who work with them, I would not want to put myself in the cross hairs that way.

The Atlantic article was interesting, wonder how things went for the other kids when the teen girl returned home? Since they planned to alarm her room, I couldn't help but wonder, what if the power goes out?

Hinckley seems like this too. Newer words are autistic or mentally ill but I think some people are just evil. Anyone who tries to kill another child is just not safe around humans.

When Paris said he wanted to "get out and prove everyone wrong" that he would always be a killer, there was anger in his expression. It was frightening. I got the feeling he would definitely kill again, but he would try to hide it. He may have believed he wouldn't face serious consequences for his murder, because of his age. When he started whining about all the "snapshot moments" he"d missed, I wanted to vomit. He never seemed to express true remorse over what he did, the only hint of emotion came when he talked about what he"d missed in life, and how he would prove people wrong when he got out

It is like Charity is trying to get murdered.

The whole family is a mess. For those of you who don't have experience with highly manipulative people, some signs right off the bat are the humble brags, lack of accountability and deflection - all on display here. Charity tries to position herself as an innocent amid all the craziness but her actions show she feeds into it. She likes being a martyr, she reminds me of those Munchausen Moms. The fact that she knew her womb produced the devil, she still went ahead and had another kid by another deadbeat. Not only that, he is clearly a replacement kid in order for charity to have a do over complete with growing out her sons hair just like the Ella's, the daughter she failed to protect. Classic narcissist, treating your children as your possessions. The documentary didn't go deep enough.

Hinckley fucking with the Secret Service jumped out at me as did him frequently violating rules and St. E' s letting it go. Bet there are stories of him acting like Paris as a kid. These types have a guiding motto that rules don't apply to them and Hinckley liked to flaunt it. Putting theres in fear of them or of what they might do next seems to give them great pleasure and a thrill, think of the Grinch.

I wonder if on some level, Charity thinks her visits might prevent Paris from killing her when he is released? Appeasing won't work, makes them see you as weak and prey.

Good points, R159. Her wiring and experiences leads her to seek chaos. I don't think any experiences could have offset the wiring of Paris, however. You have clearly known such people, any as a child? They are scary as hell.

Here is a piece Charity contributed to a human right advocacy project where she clearly states Paris raped, beat and choked his 4 year-old sister before he plunged a knife into her multiple times.

Wise words, R135.

That she was able to get him any intervention when he tries to kill her surprises me, maybe due to family money? Went through this with extended family and the professionals seemed charmed by or afraid of the dangerous tween, who did the same thing Paris did. No real help, despite extensive efforts. Discussion of alarming her door were considered "traumatizing" by professionals, instead of a way to balance the safety of the younger kids. No one can relax around these kids, it's like having a dangerous animal in the house. Everyone flattens their emotions and becomes more strategic, just like the sociopathic kid.

On some level, Charity is trying to create the loving family she never had, in all likelihood, hoping for it with each new kid. You can't do that with sociopaths. She has to know he will come for her. He should never be released. That knowledge would be life changing for Phoenix.

Did she not fully understand how dangerous he was and that he would soon be bigger than her when she brought him home? Or was she trying to appease him, even then? Maybe if he had initially threatened Ella she might have made a different calculation? Many in the mental health profession possess these traits too.

Wow, R161.

Charity seems to lack the innate sense to run and get a gun, advice above. Did she Stockholm with both her mother and her son?

Love isn't going to change Paris, or likely, even register that much.

The best that can be hoped for is that Paris doesn't kill Phoenix, unless I am missing something. For those who watched, did Phoenix seem normal?

R162 here, "stigmatizing" somehow that autocorrected

In my extended family, an 11 year old threatened a parent and younger sibs, and the safety of those kids did not even seem to rate for the professionals. They seemed to share some of the thinking patterns of the tween, in fact. The parents were shamed for trying to take practical steps and the girl seemed even more empowered. She frequently threatens to call the police and report them for heinous things that have never happened. Instead of an intervention is was more like grooming her to further terrorize people. That Paris was initially locked up amazes me. The girl has not killed anyone yet but she casually threatens violence to younger kids and laughs. I steer clear, as do many others. Unfortunately that kind of isolates them more. There is quite a paper trail, but even less safety as a result. I'm sure many of these kids grow up to be white collar criminals.

I'm not sure he can do more than mimic emotions other than anger. The anger reinforces his sense of victimhood and thus seems to justify any actions he takes. He should never be released. He raped and murdered his own 4 year old sister to fuck with his mom. Society does not need to see what he has been plotting all these years.

[quote]. He has to live with his guilt for the rest of his life.

He doesn’t experience guilt. He’s a sociopath.

And if you try to make him feel guilty he will target you, learned that the hard way.

They know they are different, they lack most emotions, and don't appreciate it being called out.

He will likely kill Charity and Phoenix. She didn't think this through. She will have to cut him off or bar him from Phoenix when he is released and after all these visits setting his expectations, that will enrage him. Cutting ties and hiding would have been smarter.

Exactly, R167. Like all narcissists he is not capable of seeing all the good she has done for him. That doesn't even register in his brain. He will only see that she has cut him off from her and from his brother. He will look upon Phoenix as the "golden child" the same way he did with Ella. He will seethe with rage and envy.....and he'll kill them both.

"I didn't see anything in Paris that indicated he would do it again."

He killed his sister for no reason at all, although it's speculated that he did it because he didn't like the attention she got. And he later stated he did it to make his mother suffer her entire life, not just for 20 minutes or so (he figured that if he killed her she'd only suffer for that long). He's a sociopath, and that is incurable. If he got out he'd be entirely capable of killing someone else again. If someone got in his way, he'd kill them. That's what killer sociopaths do, kill whoever crosses them or prevents them from achieving their aims.

He also made comments in the home movies r169 about killing her, he said something like "mom's least favorite words are kill Ella" or something like that and Charity said "Oh Paris, you scamp!"

What a beautiful boy. He could have modeled. I don't believe the story this cunt is telling. Every picture he looks so beautiful and happy. His sister probably provoked something and deserved it. The real story needs to be told. Sad story.

R171, we would be happy to arrange a cell for you next to Paris! It sounds like you would be better off out of the streets.

You don't know me, r172. There are people in this world (even cute little 4 years old girls) who deserve to be killed in the most horrible ways imaginable. This girl taunted little Paris and she deserved to have the knife plunged over and over in her cunt.

Mrs. Ramsey I thought you signed your posts.

Looks like Paris at r173 found datalounge

I think the mother is not helping. She may have good intentions, may, but I suspect she has first and foremost made this about her in many ways for whatever reason. Narcissism, a full time "job", attention, a form of Munchausen syndrome. Her behavior on so many levels is so problematic and that includes her choices for her children.

The fact that she is fostering a relationship between Phoenix and Paris (how come Ella wasn't named for a city?) just shows she has no clue what she's doing and is experiencing some kind of magical thinking that she can have a redo and the power to change things. Well, she doesn't. In fact, I think Paris may have a better grasp of how unhelpful his mother's tactics are than Charity does. I assume he realizes his father has schizophrenia.

It is possible that the fact this was committed at such a young age may mean that Paris can be rehabilitated to some degree. Behavior can be adjusted and there are therapies that work with alleged sociopaths - it's based on the recognition that "good" behavior has its rewards for those with a dysfunctional empathy. Disturbed children and adolescents commit heinous acts that a more mature person wouldn't. Even a more mature offender or sociopath would have more inner resources to deal with the disturbed emotions Paris was experiencing at the time. This is why when I have a case that involves more youthful participants it is almost always the young 'uns who initiate the really violent aspects of the crime. Sometimes shocking the older criminals involved. Obviously this is too complex a subject for one documentary or a publicmforum. I came away from the documentary less impressed with Charity and less sure of her mother's evil. No one is blameless here but there are no clear cut answers to any of the questions raised.

If I were her I'd disappear with my son and let the grandmother deal with Paris. Or let him deal with it himself like many adult offenders have to if and when they are released after a lifetime incarcerated.

She looks like Mary Louise Parker.

He's looking for penpals.

r176 Phoenix wasn't named for a city, he was named for the "rising out of the ashes" that Charity thinks her life will do now that her kid killed her other one, he is symbolic of her new beginning and that's the only reason he was born. She's a total asshole with her whole "I don't intend for him to meet his dad, he's my kid, I'm a single mom" etc. yet she lets her fucking psycho kid talk to and have influence over him. He needs to be taken away.

That's some Hannibal Lecter look he's got going in his pics at r178

It’s such a shame he was born a sociopath. He’s so intelligent. He probably could have lived a great life if it wasn’t for this horrific flaw.

I don't understand why prisoners are allowed to advertise for pen pals.

Wait, Paris interacts with Phoenix? What, on the phone?

It's unlikely that taking him away might give him a better life. Sadly, a young white boy with blond hair would likely be trafficked or used to run drugs if put in a group home.

Charity seems mesmerized by Paris, did she ever acknowledge how dangerous he is? Normalizing him to Phoenix makes him a sitting duck.

What about loving Ella? This intra-family shit gets so messy, had Paris been the kid up the street, none of this would be happening. She thinks steadfast love will change Paris, but but this is how he is.

The penpal will be the 4th victim.

The ones I've met have all been very intelligent, as well as very manipulative and very dangerous.

r183 Yeah they talk on the phone and Paris sends him charming cards and letters. They recently talked about the new Star Wars and Paris told Ella 2 to watch it and he would also and they could chat about it next week.

R185, what do you think orison is like? Of course they watch movies, hopefully attend classes, have jobs, and participate in other activites. The main purpose of incarceration is to separate you from the public, not to further torture you.

R178 he looks a LOT better with hair.

I know they watch movies r186 but no, I didn't think they watched new movies that are in theaters now.

Now that the documentary has been released Paris will no doubt get a swarm of fan mail from deranged lunatics. Poor Phoenix is fucked. Paris will kill again. Unfortunately his next victim won't be his evil grandma.

Ella correctly zeroed in Grandma as the power broker. Too bad she was focused on being narcissistic supply and not getting the hell away from murderous granny and murderous bro. In fairness, she was a pre-schooler.

I think on some level, Charity is deluded that Paris will change. He is still controlling the family, even from prison. It is as though Ella was raped and stabbed to death by someone else. Charity may have a need for things to turn out differently this time but the fact that TX won't let Phoenix visit should be a clue. Phoenix and Charity are paying court like he is a simple narcissist, not a killer, and as though being good supply has some protective effect. Not likely.

You think Paris takes it up the poop chute?

Charity herself is fucked and cared so little for her children that she exposed them to her own murderous sociopath of a mother. I feel terrible for the little girl that died. That's tragic and I can't imagine the horrors of her final moments. On the other hand, who knows what sort of sociopath she or any possible progeny she may have had would have turned out to be. This family is fucked and I hope the family tree ends with Paris and Phoenix. Hopefully they die without reproducing another generation of possible sociopaths who may not stop at harming their own blood.

Paris is smart and handsome, too bad he is a monster.

If Paris and Ella were your children, what do you think your options would be?

R194 I'm with R176. Grab the little one, get the hell out of dodge (preferably to a different country), change our names, and let Psycho Granny deal with Psycho Son.

But when Ella was still alive?

There is no fixing them nor was locking him up for life possible, nor did anyone want that.

He was just a kid but all the world seemed to dance to his tune, babysitter went home, etc. Charity was at work.

Does Charity have other family or are the mom and Paris it?

Did anyone else read the Arron Hernandez threads? He was so manipulative that his using a guard's name was enough to get that guy transferred away. Paris is white, attractive, clever and due to be out one day, just like Hinckley. Does anyone really think his elderly and very frail mom is a reliable keeper? But Paris will be much younger and with no social relationships but Phoenix. Charity keeps offering up human sacrifices to him...

R128, she left her kids with a sitter and one she had probably used in the past. She needed to work. Honestly, the sitter, who is never identified, was a moron. Who lets a kid tell you when to stop working?

I don't know what you are reading, R190, but it's not anything like what I've read. She knows he's a psychopathic narcissist. She knows he is incapable of love, but is trying to support him as her child. She asked that he be kept in prison as an adult and she will probably testify against parole in 2027. She acknowledges that she would be afraid if he were released. That does not sound like someone who is hoping things will get better.

R176, where did you get the idea that Charity was fostering a relationship between her two sons? Now I could see sociopath grandma doing it.

R178, that is unfortunate. See how manipulative his profile is? Someone as bright as he is, who is a sociopath, should not be allowed to even get online. He'll find some witless stranger, whom he can manipulate to harass his mother or worse.

R198, in the doc she is shown taking a call from Paris and letting Phoenix speak to him. They also write to each other.

The murdering narcissist granny needs her own tv special.

Granny needs a neck lift.

Isn't them chatting on the phone fostering a relationship?

Testifying against parole for him is risky. What if he gets out? He would be pissed! What if Phoenix testifies for it?

Is there extended family besides Paris and the grandmother?

She needs he mother's money. She can't just disappear. She wouldn't know how to support herself. I'm sure the mom told her she had to live near her to stay on the dole.

R197, I imagine the little girl was asleep and he said he was old enough to be left alone?

Paris and granny sound like 2 peas in a pod.

She may be the most normal one, R5. Her mother had her father killed.

Well R207, she was acquitted. Now I know she could still be guilty but I sure as hell am not relying on Charity's interpretation of things she allegedly found many years later. By then she had an agenda.

Really, who cares about any of these individuals? The sooner this dumpster fire of a family dies off the better for society as a whole. Let the little freak kill his remaining family members so he can rot in prison for the rest of his life or be executed by the state or get killed by the cops. That's better than one of these freaks taking out their violence on someone else and/or passing their sicko tendencies down to a future generation of psychopathic thugs. If this trash family didn't have some wealth no one here would give a flying fuck about Charity, her mother, the dead daughter, the dead father or either son.

[quote]Charity herself is fucked and cared so little for her children that she exposed them to her own murderous sociopath of a mother.

I don't know if Charity's mother was a sociopath. Perhaps, a garden variety murderer. What I do know is that Paris' DAD was a schizophrenic.

The DAD'S genes most likely played a part into Paris' demise. This family is fucked and I hope the family tree ends with Paris and Phoenix. Hopefully they die without reproducing another generation of possible sociopaths who may not stop at harming their own blood.

[quote]I feel terrible for the little girl that died. That's tragic and I can't imagine the horrors of her final moments. On the other hand, who knows what sort of sociopath she or any possible progeny she may have had would have turned out to be. This family is fucked and I hope the family tree ends with Paris and Phoenix. Hopefully they die without reproducing another generation of possible sociopaths who may not stop at harming their own blood.

You better hope the MAN WHO PRODUCED PARIS stops producing. That's probably the link to all of this.

Continuing:

The only fault that I had with Charity was her decision to release Paris from the mental facility. He was admitted in November 2006 and killed his sister the following February of 2007. That was 3 months later!

Paris being admitted to the facility probably would have only delayed the inevitable, but it would have been something.

The same something she wanted the state of Texas to do, in which she criticizes Texas for not doing.

Other than that big, WTF, she has my sympathy.

Why does she have any of your sympathy, R211? Doesn't her having Paris released from the mental facility tell you something about her thought processes? She's a completely unsympathetic character in all aspects of this. A junkie who relapsed and allowed her children to be around a murderer, "garden variety" or sociopathic. Like I said, if this family didn't have money, people would be talking about the family being the trash that they are and no one would have sympathy for a junkie parent. She now allows and is fostering a relationship between his sociopathic son and her youngest child. What kind of person does that? Oh right, one that allowed children to live with a the woman who had her own father killed. Charity is likely mentally deranged to a certain extent herself. And yes, hopefully Paris' father doesn't/didn't reproduce again but it would also be to the benefit of greater society if this family ends with both Paris and Phoenix, and I certainly hope that at 44, Charity is too old to have another child.

Wait, one person is saying she will testify against him getting parole, another is saying she wanted TX to release him, which is it?

A garden variety murderer doesn't arrange for the death of her HUSBAND.

The problematic genes here are likely from Charity, the dads provided the chaos that was familiar to her from living with a narcissistic sociopath. Charity has been groomed all her life to appease people like Paris by her mom, and to see father figures as literally disposable. All of that is linked to Grandma's bad wiring/character.

He should not be allowed penpals, who he may kill upon release.

I am morbidly curious to read what Paris writes in his pen pal letters. However I do not want to engage with a monster and ultimately become his murder victim.

I wouldn't. I have read that prisoners have all sorts of ways of getting back at pen pals they fall out with.

He likely flatters and manipulates, whilst plotting to kill someone you love. Fool me twice...

R161, I didn't see where she used the word rape anywhere in that article.

One of my cousins was a sociopath and was a bad kid from the start. Because he had 4 siblings who were all well-behaved kids it was glaringly obvious it wasn't nature. And like Paris he was smart, well-spoken and manipulative. He ended up going to jail for raping a woman. He's out now and I am glad I don't know where he is.

*nurture that should say. Autocorrect can eat my entire ass.

R217, it is stated multiple places that he raped his 4 year old sister.

Phoenix was born in 2013, isn't he a bit young for Star Wars? And a bit young to be groomed to love a murderer who killed his sister?

Paris has lost none of his rage or sense of entitlement.

R208, law enforcement pretty much put the whole thing together. But the part-time trucker she hired to do the hit was Black and this was Georgia in 1979-1980. Obviously he was also charged and convicted, so the system had its killer.

Get how offended she is that Paris would imply that Charity is not familiar with Satanism.

Charity is clearly Paris' bitch. He will kill Phoenix when he gets out.

Some mental health or prison officials should cut off their emeshment. That letter would be hard for a penpal to top re dysfunction.

A monster in human form sounds about right...

R220, he did NOT rape his sister. The autopsy showed she was not penetrated. There was his semen on the bed and in his shorts. Best guess is that he ejaculated while killing her. It seems that every time the connection between murder, to which he admits, and sexual arousal is connected for him, he blows up.

Charity asked that he not be released at age 18 and admits she is afraid of him. I'm predicting that she will ask that he not be released. But she should have dumped him and her own mother long ago. My guess is that she has some sort of personality disorder herself where she continues to try to stay in contact with these people who continue to try to wreck her life. But that is the price of having that foundation, where she gets a lot of access to prison officials, law enforcement and has given speeches even internationally. She's a bit of a rock star in the true crime community and gets a lot of sympathy from others. She's completing or has completed a master's degree in counseling so that gives her an image of a professional. Nonetheless, I'm beginning to see Charity's desperation to keep this unit together. I agree with those who think if Paris gets out, he and grandma will find a way to get rid of Charity or he'll do it and grandma will cover for him if it suits her.

I don't think he'll get out the first time he's up for parole. He might get out in his forties. Or he might get out in his sixties. It depends on the parole board. A stupid parole board would probably fall for his manipulations, like the jury of his sociopath grandma did.

Since she moved close to her mother. the 'bad seed will know exactly where to find her if, and when, he EVER gets out. Phoenix will be in serious danger if his brother is ever released.

This blog echoes many of the concerns expressed here about Charity and her thinking and choices...from women who have psychopathic kids.

The letter she wrote him about being his ride or die, more than anyone else, was disturbing. She might parrot the labels but the message was, "love me, love ME, Paris." Creepy. She has a need to normalize things and that is causing poor choices. Phoenix will likely end up dead. He will be too young to reject the grooming and hungry for men in his life as a young teen.

Even if he is a sociopath, he has to know that if something happens to Phoenix, he'll automatically be the first suspect. Seems like he might refrain from going after them just so he can enjoy his freedom. The problem is that he'll have no money, and who would hire him with his record? If he cannot re-establish himself into society, he might offend again just so he can back to the familiarity of the correctional system.

Someone wrote this response in R224's link. I thought it was worth reposting.

[quote]This is a heart-breaking story, Joyce. I think, though, that unconditional love is the wrong response to a psychopath. The unconditional part of it, means there are no conditions. That means they don’t have to respond. It means that they don’t have to be held responsible for anything.

[quote]I can’t remember who first said that love equals responsibility. Without responsibility there is no love. The only people we can love unconditionally are infants. We can’t expect anything of them. So loving an adult unconditionally, infantilizes them. Well psychopaths have already infantilize themselves, they shun responsibility of any kind. They want to be loved without the responsibility of returning love back. Unconditional love enables this perspective.

[quote]I think the problem is that people knee jerk into unconditional love and forgiveness as a means of protecting themselves from the opposite response: hatred, vengeance and rage. It is a protective mechanism that allows people to function without becoming like the psychopath. I think it’s the better option, but it’s still denial.

[quote]There is a third option that most people don’t realize: we can offer compassion, which is not the same as love. Compassion is recognizing that suffering is what caused the psychopathic behavior — though it is not suffering that the psychopath is aware of — then letting go of any more responsibility for changing the psychopath. Just like us, the psychopath made the choice to deal with his suffering in the way he did. He could have used denial, like we did, or any number of other ways. His choice was his choice and his lack of remorse continues to be his choice

Very well thought-out, reasonable post.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

From same blog, re pen pals

The "autistic boy" at R231 is probably not autistic all. That label gets slapped on any kid with behavioral problems these days. And it sounds so much nice than schizophrenia, or psychopathy, or sociopathy.

Charity doesn't sound all that stable and actually sounds quite creepy in some of those blog posts, especially the one at R224. If Paris was born with psychopathic tendencies, having a narcissistic ex-junkie for a mother, a schizophrenic father, and a murderer for a grandmother sure didn't help his cause. It wouldn't surprise me if a combination of genes and environment will turn Phoenix into a sociopath as well (and yes, I know Paris and Phoenix don't share the same father). Hopefully he doesn't murder someone someday too.

While watching the video accompanying R87's post, I had to shut it off when the narrator describes the causes of the child's dangerous behaviors: " . . . because of the abuse (starting at the age of 1 YO), six-year old Beth never developed a subconscious, to love or trust any one . . . the inability to form lasting, emotional relationships . . . "

Beth calmly recalls the incidents of abuse as if she were describing the inconveniences of a rainy day: complete emotional detachment. She also describes the desire to kill in the same manner.

Given such behavior may be attributed to a natural survival instinct, a defense mechanism due to devastating emotional trauma; but what is it that manifests the physiological need to commit murder, especially of family members, especially at such a young age?

[quote] Of course, I can also totally imagine you running naked across a real football field. Maybe not on your 10th birthday, but I can see you getting tipsy before you turned 30, finding a football field, and running naked across it, either on a dare or just for the liberation of it. (Hell, probably after 30 if you take after your mom as much as I think you would have!) I would have loved to see you live, to see you run naked across a football field in person. I would not have been one of those moms who scoff at such expressions of the joy of freedom, passage from “youth” to “adulthood”, or just a desire to get tipsy and run naked in the world. I would have cheered you on while I kept an eye out for cops. Had they shown up, I would have used my charm to keep you from getting arrested. You have to buck the system from time to time, right? And what’s the harm in running naked across a football field? It’s not like you’d be killing anyone, right?

Phoenix is now the age Ella was when raped and murdered. His only parent foists him on his dead sister's murderer.

Charity has a different script but is no more capable of love and protectiveness than Paris.

Park Dietz is a pay-for-play shrink whose only interest is getting his name in the papers. He notoriously gave totally made-up testimony during the Andrea Yates trial. He claimed she killed her kids because of a show she'd seen on TV, a show that never existed. I'm surprised he still has his medical license.

Charity can't cut him off to protect Phoenix, her narcissism needs the attention this cause - 501c3, book, film, blog - bring her.

She said in her letter that the only people in life are her mom, sons and victims who seek her and that she can barely function. What a shit life for a preschooler!

A 4 yr old gets coopted as a peer, talking about PG13 movies and mom treats Paris like a player boyfriend. He has way too much power.

Did anyone else catch when Phoenix was asking about having a dad, then he asked his mother about her 'sugar daddy" (Charity said that was for another conversation at another time...).

Charity has no boundaries with regards to anything involving any of her children. She even played the martyr in the blog link at R222 when she told Paris that he was the reason why they couldn't get out from "under her mother's shadow."

[quote] Don’t you remember there was a time in my life I thought about moving us to Seattle so we could get away from Mama and I could pursue a Ph.D. in Comparative Religious Studies? This was before Ella, after Brendan, when it was still just you and me trying to muddle our way through growing up. I decided it was more important you have family than I have independence and a chance to figure out who I really wanted to be, out from under my mother’s shadow and influence. I wonder how different our lives would be had we gone?

Tell me how old Paris would have been during this time? Why is she discussing "getting away from Mama" (but not doing it) with a young child? Sounds like Paris was her confidant, much as Phoenix is now.

As far as I was aware, Park Dietz did not specialize in child or adolescent psychology. Yes he does testify for money as do ALL experts. I just had a case where both the government and I put on experts and the prosecutor actually tried to impeach my expert because he was paid. Well, duh! YOUR expert is paid, too. I'm not his biggest fan at all but Dietz has testified for both sides in the past.

R236

WhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhatWhat?

"Boundary issues," indeed. What a nut.

R242 the Yates case was notorious. Dietz's reputation was destroyed. Can't believe they're still paying that hack.

Phoenix is FOUR! He was born in 2013!

She is the female Paris, the thrill seeking, etc. Typing, "It's not like you'd be killing anyone, right?" Sexualizing a dead, raped, murdered by her SON preschooler in an ode to streaking? The murderer she showers with attention (about to explode vastly), $, and who she is growing and grooming a new victim for? That sentence about killing is a huge tell.

As is using her charm to keep the cops from arresting her, R245.

I think he will go for Phoenix but Charity is a waste of oxygen. I can't feel sorry for her after her own writings. Paris is dangerous as hell but his anger at being used as her confidant and scapegoat as a really little kid was what all kids of narcissists feel. Because he is a spath he raped and murdered, other kids become depressed, cut, etc. Remember the rage shown by Theron's young son? Her background is similar.

Some sensible mental health person needs to write about how sick this all is.

Note the red and black clothes to go along with her repeated indignation that her child could think she wasn't familiar with Satanism.

Agree, R246.

R246, you mean Charlize Theron?

Anybody else wonder if dear old Charity,high on coke or whatever,maybe let herself get a little too close to Paris? Shes as creepy as he is if you ask me.

When Paris was talking about everyone watching women's swimming , he said "That was popular, as you'd imagine..." Charity answered "Yeah...uh I can imagine men's swimming be popular...uhhh..with ME". She is really fucked up...She tells her 4 year old son that she has a 'sugar daddy', she sexualized her dead 4 year old daughter, and she could easily pass for a dyke.

Yeah she's pretty gross and I imagine Paris (rightfully so) is kind of pissed with her for having kids so fucking haphazardly. I mean, she kind of DOES owe him something since she chose to just have a kid with a random dude and not have him be a part of her kid's life, he can see her shitty choices in continuing to do that. That's just a total asshole, narssy move on her behalf and she needs to quit. She should be like Eva in "We need to talk about Kevin" who basically was alone and waiting for her kid to get out and live with her since she owed it to him for birthing and creating him.

What kind of friend…fuck that…what kind of human being would I be if I consciously continue in a “daily” relationship with a boy/man who killed my daughter in such a gruesome manner, has fucked with my head and heart to such a degree the last seven years that I am essentially a hermit who has issues connecting with people other than my children and people who seek me out for help and healing, and who has made abundantly clear that although what he thinks he feels for me is love is really only a sense of possession and ownership of an object to do with what he pleases?

I truly do not know what to do with you, Paris. You are my son, my first born that I love to the moon and back. I have walked through the hell you created with you for seven years. You have tried to destroy me, torture me emotionally, and are constantly trying to manipulate me. There is no peace with you. There is no peace without you.

And now you tell me that you keep me around to get what you can out of me.

He is serving a 40-year sentence (the maximum in Texas for a juvenile for murder) and will be eligible for parole in 2027.

40 years? Fucking hell.

I'll never get over the fact that the same country that thinks 17-year-olds are too immature to shoulder the responsibility of getting a blowjob sends people to prison for 4 decades for something they did when they were 13.

[quote] He is serving a 40-year sentence (the maximum in Texas for a juvenile for murder) and will be eligible for parole in 2027.

40 years? Fucking hell.

I'll never get over the fact that the same country that thinks 17-year-olds are too immature to shoulder the responsibility of getting a blowjob sends people to prison for 4 decades for something they did when they were 13.

She talks about and to Paris as if he is her boyfriend. Sorry but that raises a lot of questions in my mind, especially when she tells him about how she sacrificed her "dreams" for him. All parents, normal ones anyway, but their kids ahead of their personal dreams and they don't go on about that to the kids. Then, she implies that it is because of him that they had to stay with her mother even though she wanted to get away from her. That's a hell of a lot of baggage to put on a child. The way she phrases all of that to him in the blog, you can tell she unloaded all of that on him when he was too young to be her shoulder to cry on.

She also sexualixed her daughter in another post, where she mentioned how the daughter would ask her if she were, "slexy." How does a four year old know to refer to herself in that term?

[quote] I miss the way she said Charity. I miss listening to her sing and dancing with her. I miss her Princess Barbie teeth. I miss sleeping next to her in bed, even the times she woke me up with her tossing and sleep talking. I miss how she throws leg over my back and her arm around my neck and says, “Oh Mama, I love you so much”. I miss her ‘yo mama’ battles with her brother and me. I miss her quirky fashion statements and her asking me if she looked “slexy”. I miss showering with her. I miss her laugh and I miss the sound of her voice.

Maybe Charity is one of those rare women who molested her kids. She sounds sick enough.

Here she talks hypothetically about Paris' friends being attracted to Ella.

[quote] I have no way of knowing what kind of young woman you would be now. Straight laced? Wild like I was (God forbid)? Would I like you? Would you like me? [bold]Would you be driving your brother's friends crazy because of how damn good looking you are?[/bold] Would you be a good or bad student? Would you be selfish or giving?

And here she talks about how good looking Paris is. Mothers think their sons are handsome, but the way she phrases it is so odd to me.

[quote] So here we are on the cusp of your 20th birthday. I can’t even begin to describe to you how it is possible, and how emotional and overwhelmingly surreal it is, for me to look at you and see both the baby I held close to whisper my promises in his ear and the [bold]full-grown, extremely easy-on-the-eyes, brilliant man who could (if he was allowed to) pick me up as easy as I used to pick him up [/bold]. The best and simplest way to sum it up is just to tell you that, in spite of the passage of twenty years and all that has transpired between us, I still look at you and feel the same fierce, no…fiercer, love that swept me away the moment I first laid eyes on you.

Yeah that's pretty fucking gross r258, not just for the weird sexual tension but just the flirty way she talks to someone who slaughtered her kid.

It's weird that she talks to her son that way, never mind the fact that he murdered his sister/her daughter.

R258 that really does sound like a woman's letter to her lover. Yeesh.

These little sociopathic twats can’t be handled with a good old fashioned ass whopping? Seriously, what is this country coming to.

[quote]When Paris was talking about everyone watching women's swimming , he said "That was popular, as you'd imagine..." Charity answered "Yeah...uh I can imagine men's swimming be popular...uhhh..with ME". She is really fucked up...

And. . . what is wrong with that conversation? Paris is grown -- not 13 anymore -- and having a conversation w/his grown mother.

[quote]She tells her 4 year old son that she has a 'sugar daddy', she sexualized her dead 4 year old daughter, and she could easily pass for a dyke.

OMG! Stop trying to twist words. She NEVER told Phoenix she had a sugar daddy. Phoenix asked did he have a daddy, and she said yes. Everyone has a daddy. Then, he mentioned does she have a sugar daddy.

Where did a 4 year old get the idea of a sugar daddy? Her response was not one of surpise at being asked about it.

R241) Really, why are you hating so much on Charity? Gee, the woman isn't perfect, but her life was fucked up!

[quote]Tell me how old Paris would have been during this time? Why is she discussing "getting away from Mama" (but not doing it) with a young child? Sounds like Paris was her confidant, much as Phoenix is now.

A little math, and it will reveal that she is writing to a 20-year-old Paris in jail. That blog posts are letters to Paris. You then ask yourself why would she write a child, who would be living with her, and that should have caused you to pause.

[quote]Where did a 4 year old get the idea of a sugar daddy? Her response was not one of surpise at being asked about it.

Kids say the dardnest things. Heck, there is even a candy bar name Sugar Daddy.

R265, are you a little slow or is your reading comprehension just not up to snuff? Yes, it's clear she was writing to a 20 year old Paris in jail. My question was in reference to the time period, as indicated by the word, "remember," (indicating sometime in the past), in the quote. The topic of which she writes happened when Paris was much, much younger. Read the quote again.

[quote] Don’t you remember there was a time in my life I thought about moving us to Seattle so we could get away from Mama and I could pursue a Ph.D. in Comparative Religious Studies? This was before Ella, after Brendan, when it was still just you and me trying to muddle our way through growing up. I decided it was more important you have family than I have independence and a chance to figure out who I really wanted to be, out from under my mother’s shadow and influence. I wonder how different our lives would be had we gone?

Her statement makes it quite obvious that she was confiding her issues at the time, "getting away from Mama," with a young child and had discussions with him about it. That alone tells she burdened her kid with her problems. Why are you so invested in defending her and excusing her because her life was "fucked up."

R263/R265/R266 = Charity

[quote]Her statement makes it quite obvious that she was confiding her issues at the time, "getting away from Mama," with a young child and had discussions with him about it. That alone tells she burdened her kid with her problems.

No, that sounds like she was recalling a time, when she wanted to move to Seatle. Many parents discuss moving with their children. There's no doubt she talked about her mother in front of her child. Many parents do, and I'm not saying it's right. It's just not unusual.

[quote] Why are you so invested in defending her and excusing her because her life was "fucked up."

Why are you so invested in accusing her? She is the mother of Paris. Right or wrong, she has love for her child that murdered her baby. It's called conflicting feelings. Everything isn't always black and white.

r1 - are you being sarcastic about the mother being beautiful because...

She smothers all her kids. They exist, not as themselves--as independent beings, but only in relation to her. They are an extension of her own ego. Charity is a classic narcissist. Her kids were created and groomed by her to be her narcissistic supply. They are mirrors she uses to gaze at her own reflection 24/7. That's why she will never cut Paris off. Her ego can't allow it. It would be like cutting off s limb ......or giving up a powerful drug.

It's sad to watch the board lesbians defend this woman because she is "cute" and looks dykey to them.

That ridiculous fantasy at R236 is all about her, not Ella. She's using the dead girl to virtue signal what a free spirit SHE is on her blog.

I'm not a lesbian. I just feel as if the woman is in between a rock and a hard place.

R273) Just stop it with the interpretations!

As well as R271) who is probably 273.

Asking if she was slexy, is a favorite memory of a dead toddler?

Incest is actually very common among narcissists.

She is a sick fuck and Phoenix has no chance. She picks sperm donors who can't fight for custody or visitation.

Is that Charity at R275 & 76?

Paris would be better off if Charity was removed from his life.

Narcissists are emotionally damaging but I think Charity could be dangerous.

I'm sure the book will have some real gems too.

She claims that there was a "sexual component" of the crime but not rape, as though raping a 4 year old with something not his dick, before or after stabbing her to death,was no biggie. She is thrill seeking just like Paris, that is why she brought him home when he was advised not to. These types feel dead inside and risks make them feel alive, sucked to be Ella though.

Phoenix and Paris are both being manipulated by Charity and she uses the memory of Ella for narcissistic supply from strangers. If Paris is worried about being killed by inmates for his crime, why talk to reporters? Make a film?

Char...i mean r263, I didn't have a problem with the CONVERSATION with 20 year-old Paris...It was the RESPONSE by you...uh Charity which was odd, hence "The lady doth protest too much".

This whole family needs the mercy of a grease fire NOW.

Unfit parents create sociopaths and innocent children suffer from abuse, neglect and death.

Younger children are targets for sociopathic siblings.

It's creepy to have this "mother" throw about they terms about narcisissm and sociopathy when she is one too, and created one.

[quote] That ridiculous fantasy at [R236] is all about her, not Ella. She's using the dead girl to virtue signal what a free spirit SHE is on her blog.

oI think you got that right. As I said upthread, Paris needs contact with "normal" people. Not his mother. There are probably more normal people incarcerated with him now than his own family. There are people who have committed crimes but who still have a conscience and are able to learn from their past lives. Charity needs to be all about protecting her child and disappearing and starting a new life so Phoenix can have some normalcy starting now and continuing through his formative years. Though with her in his life I'm not sure that's possible. I know a mother like this and she fucked up her son royally with her treating him like a confidante and her constant narcissist drama and suicide attempts. She drove the father away (I honestly didn't blame him for giving up on her) but he stayed in his son's life pretty much. The son tried to kill himself as an older teen and even turned on her. I only watch them from afar now - this kind of person sucks all the oxygen out of the room while you are expected to just listen to them - and they seem to have a calmer relationship now but it seems totally codependent. Or rather she is dependent on him for support above her disability checks. Without the father they aren't living large anymore.

And as a real sociopathic narcissist she can be charming and convince a lot of people she is such a "good" person. But in truth their lives are all about themselves.

She fucked that boy,Id bet my last dollar on it.

I’m guessing she’s exaggerating or making up the sexual component of the crime. There’s something very wrong with her. She’s acts like she’s enjoying all the attention that her dead daughter and psycho son has brought her.

She is an unfit mother and the press should not be giving her attention.

Wow, a lot of crap on the tail end of this thread. The one interesting comment was about Charlize Theron and having a similar background to Charity's. Of course, Charlize was 16 at the time, not 6, when her mother killed her father. Different developmental phase. Her mother was also much more supportive than Charity's mother has been.

She is actually MINIMIZING the sexual assault on the 4 year old!

To stay Paris' most special girl?

Paris should be cut off from him and not allowed to have pen pals. The insanity of it all is astonishing.

Cut off from Charity, although cut off from Phoenix works too....

[34] said: " This kid, who still can't be named, killed his dad and his dad's friend for no fucking reason and he is about to be off probation and turned loose again. I don't have high hopes for him"

See the comments under that Guardian article. Someone gives details on that kid which can give hope for his future. He was basically spanked or beaten depending on who you talk to 2 or 3 times a day from the time he was 6 years old until the time he was 8. The mom wasn't really involved in his life at all.

With an eight year old's logic and limited reasoning skills I can see even a non-psychopathic kid deciding that this would be the way to end the constant hitting from his parent.

I wasn't there. That kid could be a true psychopath. But I think it's a little young for a diagnosis given the circumstances.

This thread is fascinating. You guys have some stunning insight, and I agree with those who think Charity is a sick and twisted woman.

I’d classify her as a sort of family annihilator. She didn’t kill anyone, but she’s destroying her children.

But, but, but, he (and they) are white, though!

[quote]Paris is smart and handsome, too bad he is a monster.

[quote]He's looking for penpals.

He will find plenty at DL, even though his penpal profile & pics are all kinds of disturbing.

[quote]The "autistic boy" at [R231] is probably not autistic all. That label gets slapped on any kid with behavioral problems these days. And it sounds so much nice than schizophrenia, or psychopathy, or sociopathy.

That is reserved only for white kids.

When does her book come out? I agree those letters she writes to her son sound like letters you would write to a boyfriend. I think she was still a teen when she had him and it sounds like she saw herself as more like a friend to him than a mother.

So what? Thousands of people are killed each year by their relatives. Would it make her feel any better if her son had perfect mental health and killed her daughter?

R294, it doesn’t matter. As long as she can capitalize on the tragedy and get the attention, the crazy Munchhausen bitch. If he weren’t a sociopath murderer, she’d have had him declared autistic or made him sick somehow. She needs to be seen as a loving crusader.

Just wait till she transes Phoenix, she doesn't have far to go.

The transing mothers are getting too much attention, too. The media is completely corrupt. How much attention do they give to murder, to crime stories? It is constant.

Why is there never anything intelligent in the media or on TV?

Is Paris getting dicked down in prison?

The system is very flawed and TX generally sucks but the ONLY things that make sense in any of this are 1) the institution wanting to hold dangerous Paris and 2) TX refusing to let 4 yr old Phoenix visit the man who raped and murdered his sister Ella at age 4.

Paris needs firm rules and stable people, not drama with the mother of his toddler murder and rape victim flirting. It re-defines sick. You may have other people who care about you, but I'm your groovy ride or die chick, Paris...

Her need to minimize the sex assault on a stabbed to death pre-schooler seems to hint at something very dark...

No one gets to be their age, Phoenix at 4 is supposed toward to chat about PG-13 films as a chum of the 20 yr old and Paris is supposed to continue to play confidant and beau of Charity. There is dead Ella and dead Grandpa, useful mainly to emphasize Charity' s victimhood.

I can only hope that few model themselves on these sick dynamics.

TX seem to have Paris' number, if only Charity was removed as an influence....

R299, I agree as I said upthread somewhere. Charity may just ne the real hindrance to any hope of Paris' rehabilitation. I wonder if Paris doesn't realize that and in future doesn't push her away.

She must have wondered if he would cast her off too, she was lobbying him hard. He doesn't have many options though. She threatened to pull away, that has to feel threatening to someone locked up. That + flirting is so twisted.

I agree with pp that incest between Charity and Paris is a real possibility and could be a big driver of his rage.

I'm still curious who he called and what was said...

If he is worried about being killed, not unreasonable, why all the attention to the case with names and pictures? Is she hoping someone else takes him out? She seems to be setting that in motion quite deliberately. She is gunning for a hand in the death of 2/3 of her kids.

I wanted to feel supportive of Charity, but the more I see of her blog posts quoted, I feel less and less supportive. She isn't writing those letters to 20-year-old Paris. She's writing them to us. The letters read like soliloquies in a play. And Charity seems to love having a stage. She seems bizarrely proud of how "wild" she used to be. Did she regularly brag to young Paris about how much of a rebellious bad-ass she was? That's not setting a good example. If she is sending any letters to Paris now, she needs to cut the overwrought, overemotional bullshit. Don't keep telling him how "hurt" you are. Either he'll hate it....or he'll love it. It's lose-lose. She'd do better to keep her communications short, concise, and unemotional. These letters shouldn't be exercises in Creative Writing 101. I'd toss in some bible verses, too. (And I'm an atheist.) The bible verses are a good way to inspire hope and encourage civility...while still remaining cool and distant.

Someone here become his pen pal. Ask him if he fucked his mom, and report back to the rest of us.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R303 not it!

Her lack of a fear response shows her own lack of emotions. The 2 of them together are eerie.

This commenter at DM gets it:

Not mlne, Not here, United States, 1 week ago She's forgiving him because she intends to gain financially from her story. She wants to paint herself in a positive light. Seems there's more than one sociopath in that family, that graduation photo speaks volumes. Some people are blind to the sociopath behavior and will see her as a strong person, though. But I see her too...

Hopefully the creepy killer kid will spend ALL of those 40 years in jail.

And Charity thinks he's "easy on the eyes?" Well, that shows you how fucked up SHE is. He looks like a psycho killer straight from Central Casting. I guess SHE thinks he's hot, though. I bet she'd fuck him. And I say that in all seriousness. If he got out and crawled in bed with her I think they'd indulge in some Mommy/Son sex play. Hell, he might be up for Grandma/Grandbaby sex play. Nothing would surprise about these freaks.

She talks an awful lot about how good looking her kids are (were), misses showering with her daughter, dreams of seeing her psycho-killer son running naked across a football field, says same psycho son could "pick her up". Oh, and her four year old son is somehow aware of the term "sugar daddy."

She should really quit writing the blog posts. She is revealing way more about herself than she realizes.

I can never get a link to the Daily Mail to open. Ever.

Why?

[quote]dreams of seeing her psycho-killer son running naked across a football field

She actually wrote that about her dead daughter. Most parents of deceased children dream of having been able to watch the child attend prom, get their driver's license, graduate high school, get married, have their own baby, etc. but no, Charity wished she could've watched grown-up Ella streak across a football field, and then use her "charm" to keep from getting arrested. Of all things to write about, why that? Just incredibly odd. She also wrote about how she wondered if Ella would've grown up to be so good-looking as to "drive her brother's friends crazy," which comes across as really tone-deaf, considering that there was admittedly a sexual component to how the little girl was murdered by the psycho brother.

I agree with your last statement, she reveals a lot more about herself in her letters to her (living and deceased) children than she realizes. I also agree with the other poster who said that it's obvious that she writes these letters with an audience in mind, i.e., for the purpose of posting them online.

The woman is stone crazy. As is her son. And her mother. They ALL should be locked away somewhere. I pity anybody who has to come in contact with them.

[QUOTE]I miss showering with her...Most of all I miss hugging her and doing all of our kisses—hippo, Eskimo, butterfly, and Mama kisses.

ಠ_ಠ

Ha, it worked! I think that's the first time the Look of Disappointment [TM] has been posted on DL!

R309, same here.

I dunno, something about DL's site programming changed in the past few months -- some links don't work, and I can't open that list-thing on the right-hand side to see watched threads, see my blocked users [or unblock them], or even search!

Hmm, gonna start a thread about this, brb.

Maybe it's a mercy that the poor little girl got killed. I think if she'd lived her Mommy would have been having sex with her. She misses "showering" with her? Gag.

R314 back, here's my technical help requested thread. If anyone can offer insight, I'd really appreciate it!

She is influenced by junk crime culture - using the language of crime shows and junk pop culture of "cool" "good-looking" pop stars and the internet - that would be one thing if you were a teenager but she isn't and the murder of a child is serious. The media encourages her, of course, because that is what they are selling.

I forgot porn/internetpornworld as well, at (R317)

What does she mean by "full-grown, extremely easy-on-the-eyes, brilliant man who could (if he was allowed to) pick me up as easy as I used to pick him up"? Physically? She doesn't look like a small woman, what makes her think that her son would be as capable of picking up a full grown adult as easily as she did a child? Why go through such a weird, convoluted way of making a point that her son is now a strong young man? I find a lot of her wording very odd.

I wouldn't be surprised if she were molesting the kids either. Who knows, maybe that's what drove Paris over the edge.

She's living through him in some weird fantasy

[quote]Why go through such a weird, convoluted way of making a point that her son is now a strong young man? I find a lot of her wording very odd.

Because everything is about her. She can't even say her kid has grown to be tall and strong without interjecting herself in the narrative. She has to say he could pick her up (uh, why would he want to do that? Ew). There is definitely an incestuous component to her riffs on this kid. Boundaries---she has none.

[quote][R217], it is stated multiple places that he raped his 4 year old sister.

When CTRL-F the linked article and search the article on the term "rape" the number of hits is a big fat ZERO.

Uh, more than 1 article has been written about Ella, poor munchkin, may she rest in peace.

Your aggressive tone on this topic sure sounds like Charity.

Tell us more about that Sugar Daddy...Get it Girl!

[quote]full-grown, extremely easy-on-the-eyes, brilliant man who could (if he was allowed to) pick me up as easy as I used to pick him up

Did anyone else have to re-read this before they figured out she meant physically pick up, not "pick up" like in a bar to go home and fuck?

In one of the links upthread, Charity corrected another blogger who said that Paris raped Ella, and said that though he did not rape her, but there was a sexual element to the crime.

[quote] CharityLee says: [quote]May 3, 2013 at 12:28 pm Thanks for the write-up and your prayers. Need to clarify one point though. My son did not rape his little sister. There was a sexual component to his crime, but never have I claimed he raped her because he did not. Charity Lee

Yes, R324, I had to re-read that sentence as well.

R324 that is what I thought she originally meant as well

Hey, does Charity have any brothers?

That fantasy about older Ella being hot enough to drive her brother's friends crazy sounds like something Charity believes is or would have been true about herself.

Charity is as disturbed, or perhaps more so, than Paris.

Ella, age 4, was sexually assaulted.

Why all the media except that it feeds her narcissism?

I don't find Charity inspirational. She has dead eyes. The enmeshed, creepy relationships she has with her daughter's rapist and murder and with a preschooler actually make my skin crawl.

Charity LIES. She lets Paris speak with Phoenix at age 4. Only the state of TX prevents him visiting.

"So, it's just me and Phoenix now. His name symbolizes a new beginning, which suits us just fine. Paris writes letters to Phoenix, which he wants me to give to him when he turns 12 or 13. But I question letting the person who killed my daughter talk to my son. I'll never be comfortable with Paris, and I'll never forget what he did to Ella."

For 6 months an 11 year old boy took care of a baby, himself and druggie mom, yet there was extended family, who also had hired help and who were involved?

Paris was never thought to be dangerous yet he wrote about killing and murder? In detail, in colored markers? Her statements are not consistent, nor do they square with the facts.

She was trying to teach him to "budget?" The kids never seemed to get to be kids, she treated tween Paris like a husband and has made a peer out of 4 year old Phoenix too.

Playing the hipster mommy for all she is worth and increasing her net worth at the same time....

It is very much like the "transmoms"- the ones that want attention from it and think it makes them "cool. " It's a big hobby with blogs etc and sometimes you can make money and become a media star!

I think all those butterflies on her right arm are supposed to be little guardian angel Ella watching over her or some such shit.

Is the bird's head resting on her left tittie supposed to be a phoenix?

Her minimizing a sex assault on a four year old is very strange. What is that ,really about, I wonder?

I don't think either kid's name would be public except for her using them to promote her own saintliness.

In Charity' s own words, Ella was sexually assaulted,beaten, choked nd stabbed to death, why now minimize it to "had a sexual component?" Like all addicts and crazy people, her story is always changing.

He has only been in an adult facility for a year or so. The film and her publicity efforts may get him killed. Paris is worried for his safety, ironic since he did not grant Ella that agency.

Actually, he has been in an adult prison for 4 years now, after aging out of a juvenile facility.

He is kind of a small guy.

What is this about Paris and the grandmother repeatedly suing Charity, while he was in the juvenile facility?!

Maybe it is Paris' legal actions (paid for by grandma) that are making her careful how she describes the sex assault?

Testing or no, Paris' ACTIONS make it clear he is quite dangerous.

Granny's narcissism could overlook the savage rape and murder of her granddaughter, but not some labels put on the one who did it? Like is drawn to like...

the little girl was collateral damage

My heart breaks for Ella, chosen as prey because she was young and weak.

Charity calls it love, but that isn't quite right based on that victim statement. Help me out here.

Regardless of the testing, TX would not have released him.

Anyone have details on Paris and his grandmother suing her?

This entire family needs the gas chamber.

Not sure about Phoenix yet, but they are each more twisted and sick than the last, for sure, R344.

Charity at the Tribeca Film Festival.

Wonder what all those probably crazy themselves Spath docs think of CLB putting Phoenix, same age as murdered, raped Ella, on phone with big half bro?

"Documentaries" are usually exploitation of some kind.

Why are some of you so insistent that sexual assault means rape? There's other ways to sexually assault a person.

5'7"? Unless he's in solitary, he's someone's prison mussy.

She was advised to change her identity, so instead she grew another victim and starred in a documentary? She can do this dance with the devil because TX has him for a long time. Sounds like Granny and Paris thought he might be out at 19? Does the doc touch on their lawsuits? They wanted the sex aspects minimized so he wouldn't score higher as a spath. What a world.

I thought that too, R350. He still controls his family, but there he is slight man.

Excellent video on this subject with lots of home movies of the kids

I watched a couple of clips and the mother and son both refer to the murder as "it happened"

The mother says "what happened to my kids"

The son says "for a few moments after it happened"

No one killed anyone. It was just this thing that "happened."

[quote]"Documentaries" are usually exploitation of some kind.

I have always felt this way. Doc filmmakers seek fame and fortune by peeking behind the curtain at other people's lives. They are voyeurs who poke and prod at the wounds of others. Most of these parasites would never dream of laying their OWN souls bare.

R353, the link isn't working for me. What is the title?

One of the documentaries touched on the lawsuit Paris's grandma filed against Charity. Paris enjoyed reading, so his grandmother regularly sent him books. Some of these books had violent content. Charity was afraid the books would inspire more violence in Paris, so he invoked her parental rights to ban him from receiving books. This angered Grandma and Paris, both of whom don't like to be told what to do, so they sued Charity.

Thanks, R357. She said that they sued her 3 times?

[quote]Why are some of you so insistent that sexual assault means rape?

Because that is the only way they can win an argument that they have already lost. Paris did not rape his sister. Again, the truth is horrific enough with adding the lurid element of rape and incest to it.

Sexual assault does that just fine, actually, r359

R87 that video of that girl creeps me out. Seriously, if I were her adoptive parents -who state they did not discover her background until 2 months after adopting her -well, I know it sounds horrible but I would absolutely return her to the agency . I would not raise her at all. I couldn’t live with that monster, especially since she isn’t even one I brought into the world.

Those poor parents. I would just give her back, her brother may be salvageable if he’s away from her. Maybe I would keep the brother, but I do t know.

This is one of the reasons I should be happy I’m childless.

Wow! Gay men really ARE experts on everything, aren't they??

The grandmother is truly wacko, sending her psycho grandson, who molested and killed her little granddaughter, comics depicting the abuse and murder of women. I guess she thought he would enjoy that kind of thing. I'm sure he does.

R362 would you want that girl at r87 living in your home? I dont think this is a gay man issue - I’m a lesbian myself, and I certainly would not want to be near that psycho kid, and I wouldn’t have her living in my home waiting for her to kill me.

....

Do you have a link R363?

Grandma is a spath too, she put a hit on her husband, Charity' s father.

I would think his treating doctor would prohibit such things?

R364 Beth Thomas, the little girl you're referring to, is a rare example of a therapy success story. She's now a well-adjusted adult working as a neonatal nurse, and she no longer has the creepy, dead-eyed, flat affect she had as a child.

I prefer to believe that in the majority of cases, socio/psychopathic personalities are not genetically hardwired, but instead just involves people with fucked-up upbringings. Obviously, this would be impossible to determine by research.

[quote]the majority of cases, socio/psychopathic personalities are not genetically hardwired, but instead just involves people with fucked-up upbringings

I think this is the case, too.

By saying it is "genetic/hardwired" people can just not think about it, not think about how many families are just prisons. Plus if you say it is hardwired drug companies can make money.

Actually, there are people who are "genetic/hardwired" to be sociopaths or psychopaths. Studies have shown that their brains are different from that of normal people. There have been psychopaths and sociopaths who were never abused as children, who grew up in stable, fit homes. Examples are William Bradfield and Jay Smith who helped arrange the murder of Susan Reinert and her two children in what came to be known as the Main Line Murders. Bradfield, a "charismatic" teacher, came from a well to do family and there was no evidence he was ever abused or mistreated while growing up, and yet he became a remorseless, manipulative creep who killed a woman and her two children to cash in on life insurance policies the deluded. Reinert (she thought Bradfield would marry her) took out on her life,naming him beneficiary. Smith also came from a family of good reputation; he became a Colonel in the army and obtained a doctorate and was principal of the school where Bradfield and Reinert worked. But he was also a compulsive thief, was obsessed with pornography and was as remorseless as Bradfield. In addition to Reinert and her children, he also got rid of his own daughter and his son in law, and was so adept at getting rid of bodies that the corpses of the Reinert children and the daughter and son in law have never been found.

Another appalling example is Brittany Norwood, who committed the atrocious in a yoga store, the "Lululemon murder." She came from a good family of hard working people; her brothers and sisters were educated and successful. But she wanted everything and she wanted it fast. She was a compulsive liar and thief and troublemaker. After getting caught stealing she killed the co-worker at Lululemon who caught her stealing by attacking her with a variety of available weapons (a hammer, a wrench, a box knife, a merchandise peg). Jayna Murray, the victim, suffered over three hundred wounds, most of them delivered while she was still alive. Norwood cooked up a fantastic story of two armed men who broke into the store and attacked them both, killing Murray. Her story was preposterous and the detectives assigned to the case saw it for what it what: the lies of cold blooded murdered. She was tried and convicted and sentenced to life in prison. One of the lawyers assigned to her noted that while arrested for murder her primary concern appeared to be her "grooming....her hair, her nails."

Evidently there ARE people on this earth who are born bad. And most, if not all, stay that way their entire lives.

R369, I agree with you. Not ALL are hardwired and I don’t deny that nurture has a significant part, but I think SOME people are just born damaged.

*shrugs*

R369 - How do we know that the people in your examples REALLY came from good homes?

They tried to say that about Jeffrey Dahmer, too...which I do not believe.

"How do we know that the people in your examples REALLY came from good homes?"

If you want to know about Bradfield and Smith read "Echoes In The Darkness" by Joseph Wambaugh. It contains a lot of information confirms that there is no evidence that Bradfield and Smith were poor, abused children who turned out bad because of the horrendous treatment they had to endure. In the case of Brittany Norwood, there's a good reference: "The Yoga Store Murder" by Dan Morse. All of Brittany Norwood's siblings attest to the fact that they had good parents and that their murdering little sister never was abused in any way.

I never heard anywhere that Jeffery Dahmer's upbringing was stable and pleasant. In fact I heard it was awful, due to his parents always being "at each other's throats." In Dahmer's case I think it was both nature and nurture; he probably had something wrong with him to begin with and living with his battling parents only made it worse.

They initially said that Dahmer came from a normal home. I remember it very well. More people wrote about his case, so eventually it leaked out that this was not true. The other cases you have mentioned have not been examined as closely. Is it possible that one in a million did not come from psycho, abusive homes? Yes it is. But 99% have.

" Is it possible that one in a million did not come from psycho, abusive homes? Yes it is. But 99% have."

99% percent? Where'd you get THAT statistic? By the way, there are plenty of people who have hellish childhoods who do NOT grow up to be psychos or sociopathic. In fact, the majority of them don't.

Another example comes to mind: Pat Allanson, called "the deadly Magnolia", the subject of Ann Rule book "Everything She Ever Wanted." She wanted what she wanted when she wanted it, and would raise hell until she got her way. She, among other things, goaded her dope of a husband into killing his father, poisoned his grandparents, poisoned an elderly couple she was taking care of (one of them died), and poisoned her own daughter. Was she a pitiful abused child who was treated so bad that it warped her into what she became? Hell, no! She was cosseted and catered to and given her own way from the time she was a baby. Her parents adored and doted her and did everything for her. So that certainly throws the abused child excuse out the window. Pat Allanson is evil. And she was born that way.

You can make a psycho by spoiling a kid, too. Narcissist personality disorder.

You can come from an abusive or dysfunctional home and with effort become normal. I did not say that wasn't possible. But 99% of pyschos do come from dysfunctional, abusive etc homes.

psychos

typo

R362 naively assumes SHE is the only one here who isn't a gay man.

[quote]Her parents adored and doted her and did everything for her.

No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Abusive parents rarely (if ever) admit they were abusive.

[quote]She's now a well-adjusted adult working as a neonatal nurse,

Haha, and you know this how? Are you living in her head? It's truly frightening that this woman is allowed near babies. She's probably sticking pins in them when no one's looking.

[quote]I prefer to believe that in the majority of cases, socio/psychopathic personalities are not genetically hardwired, but instead just involves people with fucked-up upbringings

I prefer to believe I'm a 22 y/o super model. Doesn't make it so.

[quote]But 99% of pyschos do come from dysfunctional, abusive etc homes.

Nope, not even remotely true. Regardless of the delusional fantasies you "prefer to believe", Pollyanna, sociopaths are born, not made.

I've read a lot of true crime novels. Some truly vile human beings (sociopaths, murderers, rapists, psychos) do come from severely abusive environments. But a great many of them don't.

I'm watching this right now [for the first time], and am at the part where they show Paris' letters to Phoenix. There's a Hallowe'en card that's ripped in half, along with a letter Paris wrote where he talks about possibly dressing up as Dr Manhattan [from the Watchmen].

Anyway, my point is that Paris writes "I just wated to wish you a happy Samhain, little brother" -- so he really IS into Satanism as was mentioned upthread! [Or he's faking it for the attention]

[quote]All of Brittany Norwood's siblings attest to the fact that they had good parents and that their murdering little sister never was abused in any way.

All of John Phillips' children and ex-wives insist that he was a fantastic dad and never abused anyone in any way -- except for Mackenzie, of course. And she got cut off from everyone in her family because of it [telling the truth].

[quote]Some truly vile human beings (sociopaths, murderers, rapists, psychos) do come from severely abusive environments. But a great many of them don't.

So true. With that said. . . .

There are too many armchair psychs with subpar reasoning on this thread that want to analyze.

Does anyone here actually think Paris is good-looking? He's short, bald, fug, psychotic, and has a lisp, ffs!

Charity Lee does.

Otherwise, he was a cute kid before he became a murderer.

He needs braces.

"All of John Phillips' children and ex-wives insist that he was a fantastic dad and never abused anyone in any way -- except for Mackenzie, of course. And she got cut off from everyone in her family because of it [telling the truth]."

So you're saying that the siblings of Brittany Norwood are lying? You don't know shit about that case. By all accounts, she came from a decent, hard working, close family. There was never any suggestion of abuse. The girl was obviously born a psycho. To compare her to MacKenzie Phillips (?) is ludicrous in the extreme.

"No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Abusive parents rarely (if ever) admit they were abusive."

Actually, a lot eventually gets out about what happens "behind closed doors", especially if the person in question is accused of a serious crime. You just want to think that all psychos and sociopaths are made, not born. That's really ignorant, in light of all of what is known about how some people's brains work differently from others. You must think that all the sociopaths and psychos in the world were made that way by their cruel, uncaring, abusive parents. The abuse excuse....it's a crock of shit.

He's like a mini young Hannibal Lecter.

R272 - thank god gay guys never do that on here.

The whole family is trash.

.......

Anyone want to share more about the grandmother?

Anyone notice how wide Paris' teeth are? I mean they are like cardboard cutout teeth, super wide. Then, he tops the look with the thick black frame glasses and shaved head.

More dirt on the psycho grandma please.

R381, Samhain isn't a "satanic" holiday. It began in pre-Christianity Ireland as a festival to mark the beginning of fall/end of harvest season, and to ward off evil spirits during the months of darkness ahead.

Samhain is the origin of Halloween.

It's also the name of my band post Misfits!

I think Charity and her mother and psycho boy are loving every minute of their new found fame. I'm pretty sick of movies about detestable, revolting people, both documentaries and bio-pics. There's the documentary about this charming trio and the documentary about the nauseating mother/daughter duo Dee Dee and Gypsy Blanchard, and the biopic of the white trash twat Tonya Harding. And years ago there was the movie about Larry Flynt, the scumbucket pornographer, and his equally slimy wife Althea. Flynt was at the Academy Awards and was greeted warmly from the stage by that year's host Billy Crystal. Movies about these nasty people get them fame and perks and I know they just love it. Talk about rewarding bad behavior!

I cannot imagine why Charity lets her evil, sociopathic older son have ANY contact with her younger son. There can't be anything remotely advisable or healthy about that.

Charity claimed she would do no such thing per the blog post above. She talks out of both sides of her mouth.

r400 She would do no such thing as what? Let Phoenix talk to the killer? Did she really say that? Wow, what a liar.

Poor Ella....Mom's going to victimizing her in death. Charity's "foundation" is probably what is keeping her financially afloat, she has had a documentary made, and she will write a book.

Charity's "foundation?" What is it for? What does it do? Does she solicit money for it? Sounds like a thorough financial investigation is in order.

R401, see R333.

[quote]I think Charity and her mother and psycho boy are loving every minute of their new found fame. I'm pretty sick of movies about detestable, revolting people, both documentaries and bio-pics. There's the documentary about this charming trio and the documentary about the nauseating mother/daughter duo Dee Dee and Gypsy Blanchard, and the biopic of the white trash twat Tonya Harding. And years ago there was the movie about Larry Flynt, the scumbucket pornographer, and his equally slimy wife Althea. Flynt was at the Academy Awards and was greeted warmly from the stage by that year's host Billy Crystal. Movies about these nasty people get them fame and perks and I know they just love it. Talk about rewarding bad behavior!

I agree 100%! I am completely sick of this. I am sick of the fictional revolting people on Netflix/HBO and "Reality TV," too. It is a constant diet of stupid, violent poison. They are rewarding this, normalizing this and it is spreading.

[quote]Charity's "foundation?"

Every sleazebag has one. Why shouldn't she?

As soon as you read the name "Charity," you know the grandmother must be insane, too.

r405 Yeah, no shit, they've been normalizing it for years, see "Dexter".

YES, R408!

"The Executioner's Song" is one of my favorite books and I read it about every year, and now it has a forward about how it's really nothing these days to get an insight into a killer's psyche and now many people are executed so that's not a big deal either but back then it was. I always remember the part where you find out Gibbs is actually a snitch who is sent to get info from Gilmore and how when Gary's family finds out they are just appalled and they tell Schiller how low they think he is and how Gary now hates him and Gibbs' friend says, "You should have said, who fucking cares what he thinks of me? He's a killer!" We need to remember this. I can't believe how glibly Charity tosses off info about Paris and how she can just be so calm about this, and yeah, who fucking cares if Paris hates and sues you? He's a fucking killer!

[quote]Poor Ella....Mom's going to victimizing her in death. Charity's "foundation" is probably what is keeping her financially afloat, she has had a documentary made, and she will write a book.

You guys are reading too much into a blog post. Ella died 10 years ago.

Why would Charity wait a whole decade to start up this need for attention? Her mother is wealthy, so she doesn't need a foundation to keep her afloat.

Yet, she chose to live in a place where everyone looked at her sideways for that demon seed she had, however, she stayed there for years.

I lived in Abilene, Texas. Abilene is a miserable little trash heap of a town, and the city itself is ugly as sin with enough abandoned buildings for everyone. It doesn't cost much to live in a dust bowl, so if that foundation was bringing in the dough, I doubt she would stay there.

Moreover, a documentary will not make her rich, so you have to remove money as the objective.

A lot of posters are wondering why she communicates with Paris.

A son killing her own child will not stop her from loving that killer son. It just doesn't work that way. He is still her child, and if she loves him unconditionally then, she can't stop loving him.

With that said, I think Charity walks a fine line between allowing Phoenix and Paris contact. She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. If she stops, once Paris gets out Phoenix will be a target. If she continues this contact, Paris will once again become jealous and could cause harm to Phoenix.

Continued.

Let the flames begin.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned a few interesting points about Kyla, the mother of Charity and grandmother of Paris & Ella:

She's been married 7+ times.

She was only 29 when she had Charity's dad killed.

She has a ginger daughter who is Paris' age.

Also, according to grandma and ginger, Paris and Ella used to live with them almost as often as they lived with Charity!

According to the doc, Paris lived with them for 9 months. Ella even visited, as was stated in the doc.

Plus, it was mentioned that the grandmother was married 7 times and that she had a daughter, who was featured a lot in the doc.

Trash with money, the lot of them. I hope no more of them reproduce and bring forth more sociopaths into the world.

I thought the ginger was a 'step' daughter.

[quote]I cannot imagine why Charity lets her evil, sociopathic older son have ANY contact with her younger son. There can't be anything remotely advisable or healthy about that.

I can. She rhapsodizes about how perfect their little family was before "it happened". I think she's trying to recapture that feeling of "family" by staying in touch with Paris and encouraging a relationship between the siblings. She spawned Pheonix as a way of healing herself. He had an important job to do from the day he was born......he's supposed to be her savior. Poor kid.

She says one thing and does another.

Is Paris a stand in for Granny, this time Charity is going to change him with her love? He will never value that except as a lever or wedge. She could be putting all that energy and effort into protecting Phoenix and giving him a normal, spath free life (cept for her, of course!)

She's delusional - get her phd in comparative religions? Did she even graduate high school? She must've heard that in a movie once.

R72 R94 Kids can buy or get loads of different pretend tattoos. They’re often given out at public events at face painting booths for kids. You wet them down with a damp cloth, and they stay on for a week before washing off.

Serial killers were a topic in a biology psychology course I took. A segment was brought up, that all babies need to be touched and have their needs met, or else they miss out on bonding and empathize with others. If they’re never touched, they all die. A true experiment in a hospital nursery in Russia decades ago.

So the mother is on drugs while baby is forming in the room: genetic causes for a brain that isn’t wired properly. And she’s dragging around a baby, not likely as mother of the year, and his developmental needs aren’t met either: environmental. It’s a cocktail for disaster, the way the child spent its first five years. On top of that, the mother did not likely have ideal friends around her. Pedophiles seek out losers like that, as they’re too busy thinking about their next hit.

The basis for part of that course was that serial killers often have horrific things that happened to them in childhood to alter their brains. Raped as infants or toddlers, neglect of a safe home and food, abusive beatings. I’m not making an excuse for the mofos. But those are precedents to future behaviour.

R419 WTH? Where does she say she's working on a Ph.D? I'd be surprised if she even had a GED. And why comparative religions?

This isn't exactly related, but I just got reminded: there was once a documentary by Keith Allen about reality tv star Lauren Harries, possibly the world's creepiest trans woman (and that's saying something, considering the stiff competition).

Anyway, all of the members of Lauren Harries' family had doctorate degrees in metaphysics. The institution that granted the degrees? Their house.

They declared their own crappy, run-down council flat to be the "Cardiff College of Humanistic Studies," and then granted themselves degrees from it. Creepy-ass people.

Something like that would probably be the only way Charity would ever earn a doctorate.

R421 that part wasn't in the doc, Charity wrote it in one of her blog posts that someone posted a link to upthread.

I saw that movie just a couple of weeks ago - Little Lord Fauntleroy - holy crap, what a shit show!

great movie

I didn't watch the video. How does the grandmother "have money"?

R424 the grandmother had her husband killed to inherit his business.

[quote]She's delusional - get her phd in comparative religions? Did she even graduate high school? She must've heard that in a movie once.

Did you even watch the doc? It opened with stating that Charity graduated w/honors, even after she spent some time doing drugs in high school.

In this article, it states that Charity attended the University of Tennessee.

Boy, after reading this article, Charity's mother is one tough/cold-hearted broad. She gave her $100 to move out at the tender age of 17. Kayla told Charity she can use the money to get help or score some drugs and die.

Any DL'ers write to Paris yet?

My Shoshiopash Shon

"Any DL'ers write to Paris yet?"

I don't know about Dataloungers, but I'm sure the "easy on the eyes" Paris will have pen pals who will write him and tell him how hot he is and how they would love to meet him in person. There are lots of people out there like that.

I can't see any posts after R33. Guess DG is still cleaning.

Anyone else think Singervmay be taken out? He is a liability to powerful people and somewhat of a loose cannon.

Breaking a teen's jaw, if true, with so much riding on the table for him recently shows a lack of impulse control that may equal liability.

[quote]I don't know about Dataloungers, but I'm sure the "easy on the eyes" Paris will have pen pals who will write him and tell him how hot he is and how they would love to meet him in person. There are lots of people out there like that.

You lost me at easy on the eyes. He looks textbook crazy in this pic.

.....

Uh, what R431?

Yeah I don't see the attractiveness of Charity either. She looks like Henry Rollins with that big neck and those lame tats.

Paris reminds me of our very own Luka Magnotta

"You lost me at easy on the eyes. He looks textbook crazy in this pic."

I was being sarcastic. And the quote comes from his doting mother, who finds him very. physically attractive. She wants him, obviously.

Most mothers think their children are God's gift and oh so beautiful.

Most mothers do not boast about the sexually desirability of their murdering teen sons and dead toddler daughters

Just realised who Paris looks like -- the fugly son from Nip/Tuck!

[quote] sexually desirability of their murdering teen sons and dead toddler daughters

At age four, Ella wasn't a toddler.

[quote] the fugly son from Nip/Tuck!

Poor guy, forever doomed out of a career because of his looks.

And yes, back then when Nip/Tuck was on the air, I was one of the ´people horrified by his Michael Jackson-esque looks. I feel sorry for him.

Paris is stupid -- he should've waited to kill his sister until after getting braces. Now he'll never get rid of that huge space between his front teef!

I'll bet Charity wishes she were Stephanie Seymour:

I had a teacher in middle school - the most insufferable rich bitch you could ever meet. She taught as "a hobby." She was kept by a wealthy lawyer hubby to boot. She was raised by an extremely wealthy family. Unbelievably rude and snotty to us, her students, the parents, staff, everyone. To make a long story short - years later I found out that after she left the school due to pregnancy, her son turned out to be diagnosed as a sociopath and tried to killed her second child, her daughter. While I thought the story was horrendous, I hoped it would humble her a bit and bring her back down to reality. She now teaches etiquette lessons. lol. She has, however, gotten involved in mental health services, which is nice. She does write some pieces for society columns which are still insufferable, however. Oh well. It was the first and only time I heard of someone I knew personally who had a child who tried to murder their sibling. I have known other diagnosed sociopaths though. Not pretty.

Links, r445.

The remarks made by Charity about missing "showering" with her little daughter and their kisses including "butterfly" make me want to vomit. There was a website ostensibly for and by female pedophiles called "Butterfly Kisses" where females talked about their love of sex with little girls. It may have been that the incredibly vile website (it was eventually shut down) was simply something created by a guy to turn on men; over half of the users were male and it was run by a male administrator. But there WERE female members and there were stories about the incredible love and sex that can be shared by an adult woman and a girl child. Who knows if any of them were true or not; at any rate, they were beyond revolting. One of the stories involved a mother having a "consensual sexual relationship" with her 10 year old daughter. I think if Charity's little daughter had lived to be that age she and her mother probably would have indulged in sex play. And if the "Butterfly Kisses" website was still in operation Charity would probably be a member of it.

The fucker will be out in less than 10 years. I bet the grandmither buys him a condo when he gets out. Here's an update from a few months ago. Interesting how the media continues to omit he was sexually abused the daughter for years and raped her before he gutted her.

This cunt needs to never be allowed to breed again.

[quote]“He pretended to follow the dispatcher’s directions and do CPR,” says Lee. “But that was all a lie.” Cops found no evidence of attempted first aid.

That made me gasp.

He actually said he left the room to let his sister die and picked up the phone in the other room so the dispatcher would think he was actually trying to save her.

As far fetched as this may sound, I think the family is part of some cult or there is some intergenerational deep dark shit lurking in this family's closet.

Just watched this shitshow and am wishing I didn't! Horrid people and none of them showed any real grief for the murder of baby Emma!

All I heard out of the mouths of Chastity, the killer kid Paris, and the evil, murderous granny was " ME, ME, ME"!

Just atrocious. I feel nauseated just thinking about these trashy monsters!

Paris showed blatant signs of sociopathy early on: in the home movies where he taunted and smacked the baby sister and told his mother that the phrase she disliked the most was was something to the effect of ' her children being killed'; the stabbing of his of his mother, etc.

Why the fuck didn't the mother have the POS locked up then? And then leave him alone with the sister and an unsuspecting babysitter? It is as if she used her daughter as a shield from the murderous wrath of her psycho son. What a fucked up bitch!

And then have another kid?

Shouldn't they get started on the second documentary about how Paris gets out of jail, moves back home, and then murders his new sibling?

Yes r454. But I think the killer kid will team up with Satanic Granny and murder Mommy first. Then little brother will have a heart attack but not before bludgeoning Granny and and Paris to death.

Happy ending at last. It will be the " feel good" documentary of the year.

With a mom like her it's no wonder the kid is nuts. She seems like quite the outhere poin herself.

R456 What is a poin?

No idea, R457! Meant to type loon, somehow got poin.

Poin is how they pronounce porn in Long Giland.

R411 Mother's have been known to lift large automobiles in order to save their children.

Unconditional love is a culturally perpetuated lie.

If Chastity was any kind of mother she would have cut Paris's cock off and suffocated him with it.

@ R129 his right eye is dead.

411 - you make a good point. I visit a parenting site and there are women, so invested in "motherhood" that they will support their adult rapist sons and say that women who don't are probably the cause of why said rapists are rapists.

My adult daughter knows that I'm not down for any fuck - shit. I'm not into line stepping and expect that from my kin, especially if they are adult. If i was the mother in the OP, that boy in prison would be a lonely motherfucker who could depend on the fact that I would make myself and my other child pretty much untraceable and if he turned up; shit would get biblical. Unconditional love is a fuckery. It's blackmail by any other name.

TY, belated R160

It would be absolutely delish if the grandmother left her entire fortune to Paris. "You know, he's been through enough." ~G-d bless, pass the Bible.~

As well she should r464, she killed for that money, she should have it go to another killer, at least he won't breed, I guarantee you that.

Wow, imagine the mother ends up financially dependent on Paris, all the while she's terrified of being in a room alone with him. At that point, I think she would manipulate the situation so Paris focused his rage and jealousy on baby #2. What a shitshow this family's Thankgivings will look like in a few years.

I knew a narcissistic psychopath. Similar trashy background. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a serial killer. The common denominator besides being young voyeurs but psychopaths bud from having a domineering mother and absentee father. Some are probably born, the genetic factor, some could be head injury. Whenever a serial killer is caught and discovered, I always research their childhoods and more often than not, practically every time the domineering mother/absentee father theme is present. The bio dad is usually missing. Stepfather isn't a factor. Give it a shot and look up some famous ones on Murderpedia. Always remember this tidbit if someone seems "off" to you. Stay safe friends.

Ha!R462, I read you like a strong beautiful black woman. Taking no shit from no no one. Preach it!

this thread is datalounge.com platinum! In the top 10. Haven't even seen the doc yet but I know I'll agree with the outraged posters here. This woman is a fungus. I know I'll feel repulsed that she has the NERVE to procreate inflicting her defective gene pool upon our human race. Poster child for eugenics movement.

Bump

I'm watching the doc free but this is a shitty site. Anyone have better link?

My oh my, what a droning voice on this lez. Someone mentioned above that sociopaths have a flattened affect in their speech. Anyone else have other examples of this?

[quote]Paris showed blatant signs of sociopathy early on: in the home movies where he taunted and smacked the baby sister and told his mother that the phrase she disliked the most was was something to the effect of ' her children being killed'; the stabbing of his of his mother, etc. Why the fuck didn't the mother have the POS locked up then?

It's not easy to lock up someone in a mental hospital, and if you are so lucky, the child would probably have a short stint there anyway. If you have money, this does not apply.

Case in point:

9 months before the sister's murder, Paris was admitted into a mental hospital on the grandmother's dime, but the mother checked him out of the hospital.

And then leave him alone with the sister and an unsuspecting babysitter? It is as if she used her daughter as a shield from the murderous wrath of her psycho son. What a fucked up bitch!

And then have another kid?

Exactly. Just have another kid with absentee loser father #3. Ghetto shit. Someone a the astute point choosing powerless sperm donors for narcissistic supply. She gives herself away displaying her warped dynamic. Is she taking advice from that transparent uneducated Gwyneth Paltrow? Nothing more entertaining than discussing and dissecting the true MO of a desperate dumb narcissist.

I just watched this documentary again about a year after I firs saw it-

Holy fuck- that entire family is FUCKED.

The grandmother is a sociopath herself, and probably worse.

The mother seems VERY intelligent but supremely fucked up and attention seeking. She seems like someone who will attract drama her entire life. I liked he more the first time- this time- she gives me the goddamned creeps too.

The murderer son. This kid could have been ANYTHING. He's a fucking lunatic, and frightening as fuck.

What a dark energy in this documentary- The entire family. Ick.

Is this a stealth Patsy Ramsey thread, or should I read it?

No, Its a good thread. I posted for re-reading the posts, and I guess my opinion is shared by many.

CREEPS!!!

Coincidentally this thread was bumped... just as she released a BOOK about it all last week.

Any of you bitches borrow it from the public library yet?

Sorry R478, that was me- An article about Charity' "book" is what made me think of the documentary (and rewatch it) and comment (and bump thread).

(And sorry about my typos in my stupid comments) I type drunk.

Have any of you bitches become the murderers prison pen pal yet?