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Men identifying as “Mostly Straight” because “Bisexual” is still “Too Gay”

Savin-Williams is a professor emeritus of development psychology at Cornell University and the author most recently of Mostly Straight: Sexual Fluidity Among Men. We hear a lot about the Big Three Sexualities — straight, bisexual and gay. Most of us assume that these three orientations encompass the universe of sexual identities. But there is a new kid on the block: The mostly straight male.

To the uninitiated, mostly straight may seem paradoxical. How can a man be mostly heterosexual? If you’re a young man, you might assume that either you’re straight or you’re not, meaning you’re likely gay and maybe bisexual. Yet the evidence suggests that more young men identify or describe themselves as mostly straight than identify as either bisexual or gay combined.

A 2011–2013 U.S. government poll found that among 18- to 24-year-old men, 6% marked their sexual attractions as “mostly opposite sex.” That’s nearly 1 million young men. Yet when these men were forced to choose between straight, bisexual or gay, about three-quarters marked straight because for them bisexual, even if it is understood as “bisexual-leaning straight,” is too gay to accurately describe their identity. Given such constraints, these young men were left with no place to truthfully register their sexuality, thus forcing them to be less than honest. Talking to them, I found that in the most general sense, a mostly straight young man is sexually and/or romantically distinctive; we might say that he’s fluid or flexible, supposedly uncharacteristic of male sexuality. Traditionally, our understanding has been that if you’re male and have even a slight attraction to the same sex, then you must be gay. Even if this isn’t immediately apparent, we tell men, it will become so once you come to terms with your true self and exit your “phase” of bicuriosity or questioning. Women, by contrast, we give more space to be sexually fluid, as the sizeable literature on the subject attests.

The mostly straight man belongs to a growing trend of young men who are secure in their heterosexuality yet remain aware of their potential to experience far more. Perhaps he’s felt attracted to or fantasized about another guy to a slight degree or intermittently. He might or might not be comfortable with this seeming contradiction, a hetero guy who, despite his lust for women, rejects a straight label, a sexual category and a sexual description that feels foreign. He’d rather find another place on the sexual/romantic continuum, some location that fits him more.

by Anonymousreply 334Last Monday at 3:34 PM

So tedious.

by Anonymousreply 111/20/2017

[quote]“Sexuality is a scale—it is possible to be somewhere near the middle.” A majority of millennials endorsed the second option, which means they believe in a spectrum of sexuality.

yawn....rouse me from the dead when you actually discover something not known for 7 decades

by Anonymousreply 211/20/2017

So cool

by Anonymousreply 311/20/2017

Seriously. This is just the kinsey scale, absolutely nothing new.

The reality is if don't fall on either end of the kinsey scale, you are indeed bisexual. But people are just afraid of that word.

by Anonymousreply 411/20/2017

R3, why is it cool that men still see being gay as a bad thing?

by Anonymousreply 511/20/2017

R5 is obviously retarded

by Anonymousreply 611/20/2017

At least they admit they like some dudes. The gay label is not sacred.

by Anonymousreply 711/20/2017

it's ok so long as you're 'primarily straight'

bullshit

by Anonymousreply 811/20/2017

Mostly straight to my boudoir!

by Anonymousreply 911/20/2017

I don’t get the elder professional gay obsession with taking on “gay identity.” As long as they acknowledge some same-sex attraction, cool.

by Anonymousreply 1011/20/2017

This new label isn't flexible enough to account for variability.

"Mostly straight" while at work and with the family; "holding at 5% straight" while on the Internet.

by Anonymousreply 1111/20/2017

^ this

by Anonymousreply 1211/20/2017

People screaming about the non-existence of bisexuality, wanting to label everyone gay or straight: are the same ones screaming how people are labeling them.

by Anonymousreply 1311/20/2017

They all want the sex, but nobody wants the word "gay."

by Anonymousreply 1411/20/2017

I'm not gay. I just like taking it up the ass.

by Anonymousreply 1511/20/2017

This thread is indicative of the problem.

You can fool around with one guy and people think you are gay. No one, everyone who has had sex with a guy is not gay.

by Anonymousreply 1611/20/2017

"They all want the sex, but nobody wants the word "gay."

Word.

by Anonymousreply 1711/20/2017

R16 it's the flaming PTSD queens who got called "Fag" one too many times in HS and desperately want to prove Johnny Quarterback was a fairy too!

by Anonymousreply 1811/20/2017

What R18 said. Just like I don't want to be around "extreme" straight dudes ("hey broseph, when's the game start, high-five bro"). I also don't want to be around the extreme flamers - OMG GIRRRRRRRLLLLL DID YOU SEE REAL HOUSEWIVES? Let's flail into starbucks and try and get as many people to look at us so we an roll their eyes at them for looking at us!!!"

I sometimes don't blame straight guys for being just "mostly straight" for the dick or ass.

by Anonymousreply 1911/20/2017

Hmmmm

by Anonymousreply 2011/20/2017

Didn't bother clicking on the bullshit article but am sick and tired of closeted cases trying to create a new label for themselves so as to appear 'normal' and 'straight'.

Seriously is this what Savin Williams wastes money on at a university. So many other worthwhile endeavors could be achieved rather than trying to legitimize this made up crap.

by Anonymousreply 2111/20/2017

R21 was dressed as Madonna by age 4 and calls herself "Strictly Dickly" at Drag Brunches.

by Anonymousreply 2211/20/2017

Seeing a lots ads from guys identifying as and seeking “straightish dudes.”

by Anonymousreply 2311/20/2017

My gay friends and I had a name for "mostly straight" men I'm sure other gay men used it as well. We called them convincables. The straight guy that you just get a feeling about. Of course you had to be careful. Waiters and bartenders pass for convincables to up their tips from gay customers.

This is hardly new, but what is new is that more people are talking about it.

What also isn't new is men like R19 who just can't quite deal with their own internalized homophobia.

by Anonymousreply 2411/20/2017

[quote]What also isn't new is men like [R19] who just can't quite deal with their own internalized homophobia.

W&W

by Anonymousreply 2511/20/2017

R24 I typed a more fun reply but it got lost in la la land. Anyway, I'm really not homophobic. I'm extrema-phobic. What if I just want to suck a dick, but I don't want it to involve a whole gay pride parade with glitter and feather boas.

This thread got me wanting some straight scrotum.

by Anonymousreply 2611/20/2017

In HIV prevention, these are the guys we have to humor by calling them MSM (men who have sex with men.) It's not what they identify as, it's their behavior.

And, I say "humor" them, because these "mostly straight" men sure are having lots of homosexual sex.

by Anonymousreply 2711/20/2017

I can't see a problem with "mostly straight." It's just a less clinical term. I myself am "mostly nice"...it doesn't mean I'm cruel or hissy, it just means for the most part, I'm not. It might also get complicated for a guy if he's looking at the number of his partners. If he's been with 20 girl and 3 guys, I can see how they'd consider themselves "mostly straight." Their thinking might change at a later date...or not.

by Anonymousreply 2811/20/2017

I like what R28 has to say on this subject.

by Anonymousreply 2911/20/2017

Poor "bisexuals" nobody wants to be involved with their fake sexuality.

by Anonymousreply 3011/20/2017

R30 Do you not believe in bisexuality? Have you had sex with a gender other than your own? It's kinda fun. I admit, I more prefer penis, but vagina can be pretty hot, too. There's a lady right now that I'd totally have sex with, and about 30 men I would. So, I guess technically I'm "mostly gay" or bisexual or whatever we call it. So, I don't know why guys couldn't also be "mostly straight?" I don't know - I'm not a psychiatrist at all - strictly an opinion of one here!

by Anonymousreply 3111/20/2017

To me it is funny because every gay man watches porn, and we all know that tons of guys do gay porn and then go homes to their wife or girlfriend.

The idea that sexuality isn't black and white, that is there is space in the middle, shouldn't be so hard to buy.

by Anonymousreply 3211/20/2017

It's not black and white, R32, but it's also not an entire box of Crayolas.

There are two sexes male and female and three possible options. Same = homo oppositie = hetero both of the two sexes = bi

Three words are all we need to describe human sexuality.

The men who you describe participating in gay porn are bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 3311/20/2017

TRue bro

by Anonymousreply 3411/20/2017

R22 Drag brunches? God how OLD are you dear? You must be an eldergay. That scenario says more about you than me. Fuck I wasn't even born in Madonna's heyday.

Typical though another old, decrepit eldergay insistent on keeping up the hoopla of sexual fluidity so he can still claim he fucked a straight guy in 1941.

by Anonymousreply 3511/20/2017

R35, you type like an angry radical, man.

by Anonymousreply 3611/20/2017

Holy fuck R32 you better go off back to your swamp and fuck Cletus again. That's right getting your facts about life from a group of prostitutes is they way to go.

I can't believe that anyone still buys into the porn bullshit. 90 per cent of guys that do porn are damaged and usually from poor socioeconomic backgrounds with all sorts of issues, the biggest being their sexuality. They are usually from backgrounds with homophobia and judgemental family. Of course they would lie and say they're straight even though their have cocks up their asses and shoving cocks in their mouths like it was oxycontin.

Male sexuality is black and white. You are never going to get a true shade of grey because of environmental factors that distort results. If you eliminate homophobia then you will get a true reading of male sexuality, but until then it's all supposition peddled by those with an agenda.

by Anonymousreply 3711/20/2017

R36 Thanks for the compliment. It must have been hard to type with your arthritis and partial blindness.

by Anonymousreply 3811/20/2017

R37 "Male sexuality is black and white" Wrong. That is all.

by Anonymousreply 3911/20/2017

Hmmmmmmm

by Anonymousreply 4011/20/2017

R14. “No one wants the word ‘gay’” Bingo

by Anonymousreply 4111/20/2017

Being Tranz, I can truly say that my sexuality is bisexual. To me the genitals aren’t all that important. I am in a long term relationship with a man now. Before that I was with a woman. The notion of “mostly straight” is a bit of a cop out. Some people will do anything to publicly keep their straight privilege while engaging in secretive gaiety. That is weak, but better than the closet queens like that Republican Wes Goodman. That man has done harm to lgbt people while using us for his closeted sex life. THose types I despise.

by Anonymousreply 4211/20/2017

The book is based on conversations with 40 men. Not exactly a scientific sample.

by Anonymousreply 4311/20/2017

The mostly straight man belongs to a growing trend of young men who are secure in their heterosexuality yet remain aware of their potential to experience far more. Perhaps he’s felt attracted to or fantasized about another guy to a slight degree or intermittently. He might or might not be comfortable with this seeming contradiction, a hetero guy who, despite his lust for women, rejects a straight label, a sexual category and a sexual description that feels foreign. He’d rather find another place on the sexual/romantic continuum, some location that fits him morE

by Anonymousreply 4411/20/2017

INTEREsting

by Anonymousreply 4511/20/2017

R35 is hilarious and dead-on.

by Anonymousreply 4611/20/2017

We have this thread at least once a week.

by Anonymousreply 4711/20/2017

We need more studies

by Anonymousreply 4811/20/2017

We really don't, actually.

by Anonymousreply 4911/20/2017

The "mostly straight" label covers up a multitude of sins!

by Anonymousreply 5011/20/2017

The "mostly straight" types always typify the worst gay stereotypes.

by Anonymousreply 5111/20/2017

HOw so?

by Anonymousreply 5211/21/2017

R51 I think the "worst gay stereotypes" are from the worst of the gays - non-stop cheating/ barebacking, shattering every room with the HELLO GIRLS entrance, prancing around as fem as possible, turning every conversation into a lady gaga appreciation celebration, etc. I run scared from those gross gay stereotypes, too, and I'm proudly hooked on the dick. I just like men, not women. So, to me, the "worst gay stereotypes" are the reason we even have "mostly straight" guys. Why am I using "so many quotation marks?" I need "help."

by Anonymousreply 5311/21/2017

One girlfriend, twenty different guys that they bang on the side.

by Anonymousreply 5411/21/2017

Is "mostly straight" the same as pan sexual? I've been hearing millennials using this "pan sexual" term a lot to describe what I had assumed were closeted males who had public girlfriends/wives and secret sex with anonymous men. Is this called pan sexual now or "mostly straight" instead of closeted? Btw, I'm not even trying to be funny. I just don't get the terminology anymore and would like to have a conversation with millennials without sounding outdated or offensive.

by Anonymousreply 5511/21/2017

I know men who are bisexual but they call themselves "gay" especially to gay men as a lot of gay men don't understand bisexuality or will claim that they're lying, closeted, in denial, etc.

R55, "pansexual" is just another term for being bisexual. There are pansexual people but they are into sex acts that are illegal like pedo/hebephile stuff or sex with animals. See link, A rarity as a black serial killer, Coleman preferred to victimize African Americans - with Marlene Walters his only white murder victim - and once said he was forced by blacks to kill other members of his race. By the time he killed 9-year-old Vernita Wheat in Waukegan, Ill., on May 29, 1994, Coleman was well known to Chicago-area police as a sexual predator. While only once convicted and sent to prison (where he forced three other inmates to have sex), his rap sheet contained four arrests for rape. He had even been accused by a half-sister of sexually molesting his 9-year-old niece. A prison psychiatric profile found Coleman, a ninth grade dropout with an IQ on the lower edge of normal, to be 'a pansexual willing to have intercourse with any object, women, men, children, whatever.'

by Anonymousreply 5611/21/2017

R55 Same here, as far as the terminology. My fantasy is me and my "mostly straight" friend keep sucking each other off from time to time, or j/o together every so often and no one would make a big deal of it. Neither of us would be good for each other in a legit full-on relationship. Generally speaking, he and his gf are great together socially, and cuddly, and romantically. She just doesn't suck dick like I do. I also don't ever want to spend the night with him cuddling, and planning our meals together - not my thing. I like what we have now. Is that so wrong? Let him be mostly straight, and I'll be mostly gay.

by Anonymousreply 5711/21/2017

Women won't date them if they say they're bisexual, so they'll say they're straight. Gay men don't care.

by Anonymousreply 5811/21/2017

R57 or why not have sex with each other and his girlfriend all at once? Have you talked to them about this at all?

"mostly gay"=another term for being bisexual.

by Anonymousreply 5911/21/2017

As long as many or most openly gay men are fem or nonmasculine, there will be a strong stigma against gay identity that repels most men to avoid it at all costs. Most men want to be associated with an identity or culture known for diva-worship, calling men by female pronouns, campiness, or otherwise acting like females.

by Anonymousreply 6011/21/2017

R30 aw mad you couldn't get up for a woman, so you believe others can't like men and women?

by Anonymousreply 6111/21/2017

Self loating assholes. They're no better than the "queer" or "sexually fluid" types. Seriously, they need to get over their issues, being bisexual is not a bad thing.

by Anonymousreply 6211/21/2017

I meant “Most men DON’T want to be associated with an identity or culture known for diva-worship, calling men by female pronouns, campiness, or otherwise acting like females.”

by Anonymousreply 6311/21/2017

I do find it hilarious that bisexuals keep complaining about erasure and bemoan the need to label sexuality and yet they constantly twist themselves in knots coming up with an seemingly never-ending stream of new labels to avoid saying 'I am bisexual'.

Just an aside, I've never understood the notion that bisexuals and homosexuals are similar, these are two completely different and distinct sexualities. A gay men will never truly know what it means to be bi, nor vice versa.

I listen to bi guys talk about their attractions for men and women vacillating over years, months, or even day-to-day. I listen to bi guys talk about being sexually attracted to men and women, but only romantically attracted to women. I listen to bi guys talk about being attracted to dicks but not men. I listen to bi guys talk about 'discovering' a sexual attraction to men in their 20s, 30s, 40s or even 50s.

I, as a gay man, can try to understand the experiences of bisexuals, but I will never truly know or relate to these experiences because I'm not bisexual. Just because we're all lumped into this expanding group of letters (LGB++++++) doesn't mean we can't acknowledge there are fundamental differences between bisexuals and homosexuals.

by Anonymousreply 6411/21/2017

[quote] Just like I don't want to be around "extreme" straight dudes ("hey broseph, when's the game start, high-five bro"). I also don't want to be around the extreme flamers - OMG GIRRRRRRRLLLLL DID YOU SEE REAL HOUSEWIVES? Let's flail into starbucks and try and get as many people to look at us so we an roll their eyes at them for looking at us!!!"

That's [italic]exactly[/italic] how straight guys and gay guys talk!!!

by Anonymousreply 6511/21/2017

And in other news, we can expect snow in Vermont this winter.

by Anonymousreply 6611/21/2017

A lot of guys here do talk in that extremely fem campy way. Very much stereotypical

by Anonymousreply 6711/21/2017

I'm a 100% gay, but I wonder what my daddy and uncles would have been.

You see, my daddy started fucking me when I was 8. He was a huge, built cattleman. 6'4" and weighing at least 275 pounds and built like a shit brickhouse. He forced his huge, unwashed, cheesy cock into me. No lube. Just spit, or gun oil if he had any. He would degrade and feminize me. He made me wear my sister's dresses and patent leather shoes. Often he would parade me around town in my sister's dress and raise the hem and show laughing passers-by my tiny cocklet. I was so degraded! I've never been so humiliated! He would make degrading gestures by putting his thumb and forefinger close together, leaving only a tiny space between them, and indicate this was how small my puny clit was. He called me a f@g, a punk, a buttboy, and a queer. He made me dance degrading dances and sing humiliating songs for my uncles and grandpappy. These were heavyset, weather-beaten cowboys with handlebar mustaches, thick biceps and meaty thighs. They would laugh while I danced for them, jacking their huge cocks. I was forced to service their nasty, huge cocks. Then they would pack my rectum full of hot jizz.

I'm only now beginning to recover from the psychological ravages of my abusive childhood.

by Anonymousreply 6811/21/2017

According to Congressman Wes Goodman, it's not gay if you're both alphas.

by Anonymousreply 6911/21/2017

Gay culture emasculates men, so naturally men avoid the identity

by Anonymousreply 7011/21/2017

R68 's fictional account is why we can't have nice things.

by Anonymousreply 7111/21/2017

GREAT news

by Anonymousreply 7211/21/2017

[quote]aw mad you couldn't get up for a woman, so you believe others can't like men and women?

You obviously don't have a penis.

by Anonymousreply 7311/21/2017

This also has nothing to do with women so what the fuck are they doing now. Trying to "save their men"?

by Anonymousreply 7411/21/2017

HUh?

by Anonymousreply 7511/21/2017

Yboom

by Anonymousreply 7611/21/2017

Where did this absurd idea come from that women are naturally bisexual and men are gay or straight? I don’t hold that same opinion because I’ve known bisexual men.

by Anonymousreply 7711/21/2017

Dope

by Anonymousreply 7811/21/2017

From the new set of studies on Women and Gay Men and Why They Do Annoying Things by Dr. Abdul Rahman-Aziz

by Anonymousreply 7911/21/2017

[quote]“Sexuality is a scale—it is possible to be somewhere near the middle.” A majority of millennials endorsed the second option, which means they believe in a spectrum of sexuality.

Uh, no it's not, at least not for men. Sexuality is binary for men. The Kinsey scale is outdated flawed BS from the 1950s. A lot of his research is biased and has been disproven.

by Anonymousreply 8011/21/2017

R80 So just because you had homosexual urges and tried your best to like women and failed, it means no man can like both?

by Anonymousreply 8111/21/2017

R80 is the annoying type

by Anonymousreply 8211/21/2017

and then there are bisexuals

though some just say they're kidding themselves . . .

la la la la la la la la

by Anonymousreply 8311/21/2017

R82, the truth is annoying?

by Anonymousreply 8411/22/2017

"... a growing trend of young men who are secure in their heterosexuality yet remain aware of their potential to experience far more."

aka cheating

And there's nothing new about it.

by Anonymousreply 8511/22/2017

It cracks me up when people want to believe something so bad R80, that they state is as absolute fact, no matter what, all the research points to my opinion. End of story. La la la, closing my ears. I am smartest. Where's my mommy?

by Anonymousreply 8611/22/2017

If bisexuals take over then we're going to need weapons because they're way more violent.

by Anonymousreply 8711/22/2017

I wonder if all this opening up about straight men being such creepers at women will start to make "mostly straight" men explore their male interests even more, thinking it's a safer bet.

by Anonymousreply 8811/22/2017

As someone mentioned above, there is no statistical significance to this book's findings. It is based on an incredibly small sample size (n=40) and is based on self report (notoriously unreliable data).

The sexuality studies that measure arousal based on penile plethysmography are much more reliable.

by Anonymousreply 8911/22/2017

Could one of you "non-gays" please explain to me why you come to a web site that says right on the front door "We've been serving up this steaming pile of Gay celebrity gossip, politics and pointless bitchery since 1995"

If you have such hatred and animosity towards anything gay, why not go to you own "non-gay" website? Why do yo come here to a GAY site. Oh wait, is it because there are so few of you non-gays the miniscule traffic to any such site wouldn't begin to cover the costs?

by Anonymousreply 9011/22/2017

R90 - I'm too lazy to scroll all through, but I don't even remember anyone saying they were "non gay" - maybe I missed it. And does difference of opinion always equate to "hatred and animosity?" I must keep missing stuff.

by Anonymousreply 9111/22/2017

[quote]The sexuality studies that measure arousal based on penile plethysmography are much more reliable.

Please quote some.

I'd be curious to know how many guys who identify as straight or mostly so are aroused by both genders.

by Anonymousreply 9211/22/2017

Hah, R54... So true. Same old bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 9311/22/2017

Bisexuality does exist. I identify as bisexual. I dated a girl in high school and even took her to prom and madeout! So I'm not what you would call a gold star gay but a genuine bisexual man.

by Anonymousreply 9411/22/2017

I think they're moving off of bisexual because the jig is up. People kind of realize now that bi men are almost always gay but wanting to appear partly straight.

by Anonymousreply 9511/22/2017

R95 - sometimes, but certainly not always.

by Anonymousreply 9611/22/2017

LOL R94. You even "made out" with your prom date, you say?! Yes, you MUST be bisexual then....

by Anonymousreply 9711/22/2017

R95, not really. Your worldview is tiny.

by Anonymousreply 9811/22/2017

TYgff

by Anonymousreply 9911/22/2017

the gay male stereotype is usually super effeminate men with frosted blond hair. but all the gay dudes ive met can more or less be summed up as quiet, brunette, super into computers/science, wears flannel, listens to hip hop or indie music.

by Anonymousreply 10011/22/2017

Keep in mind Breitbart is probably in this thread trying to push their agenda of breaking up our community.

That said, Bisexuals are notorious for pursuing trans women for sex, but refuse to consider them for normal relationships. They seem to do the same with gay men or female bisexuals touristing with Lesbians. When bisexuals start loving same sex partners or trans, I think they will be more respected. We are as worthy of love, legitimacy and relationship status as hetero relationships. Your lgbt sex partners should not be dirty secrets.

by Anonymousreply 10111/22/2017

Uh okay

by Anonymousreply 10211/22/2017

R100, I need to meet the gay guys you know. I've always wanted to meet gay guys like that.

Never have

by Anonymousreply 10311/23/2017

[quote]Keep in mind Breitbart is probably in this thread trying to push their agenda of breaking up our community.

You keep repeating this in every thread you disagree with. What's YOUR agenda?

by Anonymousreply 10411/23/2017

Exactly

by Anonymousreply 10511/23/2017

OP, I appreciate your effort to educate but the average DLer's knowledge of sexuality rivals a Republican housewife from Kansas, with all the misconceptions.

On DL, if a guy has slept with 500 women and one man, he's a pathetic closet case and a terrible person to boot - for his cowarldy resusal to come out!

If a guy has slept with 1,000 women and has only fantasized about sex with a man he is - you guessed it - a closet case who'll be so much happier when he finally embraces his true self!

There's no "mostly straight" - It's 100% het or you're gay, gay, gay.

by Anonymousreply 10611/23/2017

True, it’s an archaic elder professional gay mindset predominates on DL. No nuance, no complexity, no fluidity. Outdated

by Anonymousreply 10711/23/2017

R92 Why don't you start with the link below- this is a nice "meta analysis" that summarizes multiple studies, and be sure to look at the reference list for specific studies. You can cross reference them at Pubmed.gov

by Anonymousreply 10811/23/2017

FGGGFFxds

by Anonymousreply 10911/24/2017

I love brosexuals!

by Anonymousreply 11011/26/2017

Really? There are still DLers who like to say bisexual men don't exist? Science says otherwise

[quote] the new one finds that bisexual men responded to both the male and female videos, while gay and straight men in the study did not.

by Anonymousreply 11111/26/2017

Because some people think: Gay = Effeminate and weak

by Anonymousreply 11211/26/2017

Of course, and they think gay male culture is lame, unmanly, and whack.

by Anonymousreply 11311/26/2017

No idea who these guys are dating, female wise, but most women will not seriously date a guy who is not straight, if she is. In fact, there are a lot of women who do not date men who come across as feminine.

by Anonymousreply 11411/26/2017

They still think 'gay' is a bad thing. Poor, benighted souls.

by Anonymousreply 11511/26/2017

Of course they do

by Anonymousreply 11611/26/2017

[quote]No idea who these guys are dating, female wise, but most women will not seriously date a guy who is not straight

That's one reason why bisexual guys tend to lie so much. Eventually it becomes habitual. I knew a bi guy who lied anout the stupidest things. He'd say he ate at McDonald's if he ate Wendy's.

by Anonymousreply 11711/26/2017

Whatta buncha stupid Phaagzz! It doesn't matter if you're Halle Berry or Lupita Nyongo, the KKK still sees you as a nigrra

by Anonymousreply 11811/26/2017

ALrighty then

by Anonymousreply 11911/28/2017

And yet women love Harry Styles who has a feminine apperance and constantly hopes he's bisexual and dating Liam. Just proves further gay men don't know women and shouldn't comment for them.

by Anonymousreply 12011/28/2017

Even in 2017, America still adheres to the "Suck One Cock And You Are Gay Forever" rule.

by Anonymousreply 12111/28/2017

In personals/apps, I specify I am only seeking “straightish dudes.”

by Anonymousreply 12211/28/2017

R120, Girls, not women.

by Anonymousreply 12311/28/2017

Yep,so many people still think that way r121

by Anonymousreply 12411/28/2017

R121 Gays in America, but most people know women are opening up to male bisexuality, hence why it's been shown more and more on media

by Anonymousreply 12511/28/2017

Bryan Singer is bisexual.

So are Dustin Lance Bass and Tom Daily.

by Anonymousreply 12612/02/2017

R126 No they're not bisexual.

Singer is a pedo/hebephile, and yet somehow he was allowed to adopt a child?!

Dustin Lance Bass and Tom Daily are gay men.

by Anonymousreply 12712/02/2017

Yyepp

by Anonymousreply 12812/02/2017

I love ❤️ these bros .

by Anonymousreply 12912/03/2017

Most straight women are not into bisexual men maybe it is common among young millennia women but most over 30 prefer straight men. Bisexual women are a different animal because they tend to be more open to bi men. I really don't think most straight women are that desperate, yes there will be few who feel their biological clock is ticking and will settle for a bi man. I am paraphrasing Chris rock words " when a woman settles for a bi guy he was never her first choice, she really wanted a straight man" . Chris rock did not state it like that but I just switched it around.

by Anonymousreply 13012/03/2017

R130, so what dude? There are plenty of women who are the exception and cool with it today. Of course, monogamy is critical. Any guy who can’t commit and be Faithful has no business being in any type relationship

by Anonymousreply 13112/03/2017

Singer didn't adopt R127

He impregnated a friend of his and they had the child together.

Thinking the impregnation occurred in a test tube.

by Anonymousreply 13212/03/2017

Stop talking about dudes who aren’t hot.

by Anonymousreply 13312/03/2017

Yepp

by Anonymousreply 13412/04/2017

People are seeking bros who just happen to make out with dudes, but none of the stereotypical gay stuff that makes so many gay guys seem effeminate.

by Anonymousreply 13512/07/2017

Progress

by Anonymousreply 13612/09/2017

Mostly straight or Trans - those are your options.

by Anonymousreply 13712/09/2017

I’ll take Mostly Straight, Alex

by Anonymousreply 13812/09/2017

Voim

by Anonymousreply 13912/10/2017

Getting to the point, neither the OP's referenced research paper nor this thread would be necessary if it were broadly socially acceptable for men to be open about being attracted to, and having sex with, other men.

by Anonymousreply 14012/11/2017

No wonder gay marriage is so fragile. Men regard gay sex as some kind of exotic condiment they douse their meat with only occasionally.

I can count one had the number of relationships I'm aware of. The rest just cruise online.

by Anonymousreply 14112/11/2017

Because it’s viewed as unmanly

by Anonymousreply 14212/11/2017

I love this trend!

by Anonymousreply 14312/12/2017

Why would a straight woman like myself want to date bi guy and risk getting infected with all kinds of stds from his down low lifestyle. Like I stated earlier bisexual women might make better partners because they will be more open since they share similar same sex attraction. there is a reason bi porn now features bi women and men foursomes.

by Anonymousreply 14412/12/2017

Because they are not gay ?

by Anonymousreply 14512/12/2017

Keep out r143

by Anonymousreply 14612/12/2017

[quote]People are seeking bros who just happen to make out with dudes, but none of the stereotypical gay stuff that makes so many gay guys seem effeminate.

When gay men bi guys get a long this will all go away. This weird condescending way of phrasing will go to.

I'm sorry white guys won't fuck you.

by Anonymousreply 14712/12/2017

R144 Princess let women speak for themselves, I doubt they need gay men being their voice

by Anonymousreply 14812/12/2017

I tried to make a relationship with a bi guy work, but he just went crawling home to mommy in the end.

I love men but I hate the lies and double standards that keep men from loving each other. As for calling it "toxic masculinity," if it's so toxic why are there women who wish to perform masculinity just as there are men who wish to perform femininity? If anything is truly toxic, it's slathering your face in chemicals every day.

[quote]I'm sorry white guys won't fuck you.

Getting white guys to fuck me or let me fuck them has never been an issue. Finding ones worthy of being married to is another thing altogether. I've never wanted to play the field and even the few times I had one-night stands and tried to divorce sex from love I couldn't. There was still the sense of sadness that that's all there will ever be.

If you can't say "I'm gay" in public or even in private, how can you possibly follow it up with "and this is my husband" until you do?

by Anonymousreply 14912/12/2017

I meant keep out r144

by Anonymousreply 15012/12/2017

I support this

by Anonymousreply 15112/22/2017

They want bros with benefits, without the label or culture of “gay.”

by Anonymousreply 15212/22/2017

And that’s cool.

by Anonymousreply 15312/22/2017

👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

by Anonymousreply 15412/23/2017

R141 or it's because a lot of gay men lie and cheat on each other.

by Anonymousreply 15512/23/2017

[quote] They want bros with benefits, without the label or culture of “gay.”

Take away the sparkles and spangles and the insufferable untz-untz and it's no less gay than with it. If you're only attracted to the same sex, you're gay. Period.

by Anonymousreply 15612/23/2017

I love the proliferation of straight4straight personal ads.

by Anonymousreply 15712/23/2017

R156, but those “sparkles and Spangles” and overall effeminancy mean a lot in this world, and pose a huge impediment to gay identity. That will not change....

by Anonymousreply 15812/23/2017

I think the word you are looking for is "tacky," R158.

by Anonymousreply 15912/23/2017

Not all effeminancy is tacky

by Anonymousreply 16012/23/2017

Gay is Jack from Will and Grace and most men are not GAY.

They like men, the prefer women but horny at the gym spread their towel so you can suck them.

They will never use the G word, get over it.

by Anonymousreply 16112/23/2017

A tiny percentage of men have sex at the gym

by Anonymousreply 16212/23/2017

Ypgcc

by Anonymousreply 16312/28/2017

R161, you deserve to die for invoking the name of that vile minstrel.

by Anonymousreply 16412/28/2017

Matt, take your meds and stop shitting all over the various threads.

by Anonymousreply 16512/28/2017

If you had said "Jodie Dallas" I could forgive you and even write a letter of recommendation for a credit extension on your GayCard. But no. No, no, no.

by Anonymousreply 16612/28/2017

Dude, who is Jodie Dallas?

by Anonymousreply 16712/28/2017

Some won't use the 'bi' label due to the unfair notion that bi men are sex-obsessed whores.

Others won't use the word 'gay' because they basically prefer women but happen to fuck male ass from time-to-time because it's less drama than securing quickie sex from a woman.

by Anonymousreply 16812/28/2017

Boom

by Anonymousreply 16912/31/2017

Men (and perhaps a good chunk of women) who are "sexually fluid" are almost undoubtedly psychopaths. Which is why gay men and lesbians are often disdainful of bisexuals. Male psychopaths tend to be sexually fluid because their brains are structured in a way that makes them prone to boredom and in need of novel (and often socially prohibited) experiences. Sexual fluidity (especially in men) is a huge red flag.

by Anonymousreply 17012/31/2017

media push to erase gay

by Anonymousreply 17112/31/2017

R170, only a certain type of prissy gay men on DL dislike bi and fluid men. On dating apps and Craigslist, they are the most desired men of all, along with “mostly straights.”

by Anonymousreply 17212/31/2017

Actually it’s old bitter prissy white gay men that dislike fluids and bis.

by Anonymousreply 17312/31/2017

The fluids and pathogens are in the Naked NY Gym, making a mess

by Anonymousreply 17412/31/2017

I think that the main problem there is, is that many people don't understand that there are many manifestations of bisexuality and that it doesn't imply the desire of running out with a person of the same gender, or the compulsion to have sex with everyone (especially, other men). The homophobic assumption that gay sex is somehow perverted and immoral and it reflects some form of pathological behaviour, is one of the things that lies at the root o the perception of "gayness" as something shameful. The other part is the misrepresentation of gay people are ridiculously effeminate, promiscuous drug-addicts (again, assumption of mental disorder), weak, incapable of behaving in a respectful or socially responsible way, obsessed with hedonism, etc.

While a part of gay culture is like that, it is unfair to assume that everything is like this and also, many straight people are like that - go to any of the resorts in the Mediterranean like Magaluf or Agia Napa, and you will see lots of straight people being promiscuous, getting drunk and doing drugs and being obsessed with partying and hedonism. And I am not only talking about young people, but there are individuals in their 50s and 60s acting the same way. The only difference is that in the case of straight people, this is assumed to be "mere fun", whereas in the case of gay people it is seen as an all-consuming obsession and something that a reviled minority shouldn't do, lest our lack of sainthood validate the prejudices that many can barely hide.

Also, to say that the only straight-obsessed men are older gay men is untrue; bisexual men and younger gay men also seem to be obsessed with the idea that straightness is somehow better. This is because the acceptance of gay people seems to be linked to generality (which is to say, gay people are viewed as a concept, rather than a community of real, diverse individuals who deserve to be accepted as they are, and not because they are perpetual victims who must be pitied and sanctified), but many people seem to have a problem when they see a gay person not complying with certain social mores, or not acting like a good, grateful little sidekick. The newer generations are very guilty of this, and they seem to be more concerned with looking the part and being politically correct, than with the actual support and acceptance of gay people as we all are.

So, as long as homosexuality is typified as something anomalous and unhealthy, many people will have extreme problems wanting to have anything to do with it. Also, the truth is that the world is filled with hypocrites who want to have someone to hate, all the while convincing themselves that "they are not the same" because of some feeble subterfuge.

So yes, I understand why this phenomenon takes place, and why many men are afraid to become associated with gay culture or even come out as bisexual; after all, we are all social beings and we need acceptance and a sense of belonging in order to exist. the real problem starts when these bisexual men twist themselves into knots to justify their same-sex attraction and vilify gay people just to make themselves feel a little less ashamed of their own emotional conflicts with their sexuality. Until these things are not solved, sadly, being linked to "gayness" will always be a source of shame, opprobrium and revulsion for many.

by Anonymousreply 17512/31/2017

Masculinity matters

by Anonymousreply 17601/01/2018

More

by Anonymousreply 17701/03/2018

Through all this R21 makes the most sense.

by Anonymousreply 17801/03/2018

Actually R21 represents the provincial minority of gay DLers R172 and R173 are describing.

by Anonymousreply 17901/07/2018

Try being bi at a straight site. And both r172 and r173 come across as girly, more girly than most gay men I know. I feel sorry for them in their retro self-delusion in 2018.

I won't laugh at them because I know they are laughed at enough.

As for r179, why don't you go hang out at a better gay site.

by Anonymousreply 18001/07/2018

Good to have more mainstream masculine men in the dating Pool.

by Anonymousreply 18101/08/2018

So tired of closet cases. Just kill yourselves.

by Anonymousreply 18201/08/2018

Dating?

They're not going to date you. They're going to fuck you and then write shitty poetry to their ex girlfriend. Men aren't for dating for these archetypes, they're for sex only. Avoid them.

[quote]People are seeking bros who just happen to make out with dudes, but none of the stereotypical gay stuff that makes so many gay guys seem effeminate.

Exactly. And they think they're great people for treating gay men like shit while fucking every puss and sucking every cock in sight. Basically they want to have the gay sex but still appear stereotypically straight--dull, not saying with depth, wannabe-stoic, constantly concerned with their reputation and appearance... they want to be the WORST thing about men.

Avoid them and don't let them insult you and then touch your body. Touching someone or punching them in the arm isn't a way to say sorry, it's like saying "excuse the fact that I'm a bad person."

Stupid fucking animals.

by Anonymousreply 18301/08/2018

Not gay sex, just a bro giving with a bro. The word “gay” will make them avoid you.

by Anonymousreply 18401/08/2018

UH, just a bro vibing with a bro.

by Anonymousreply 18501/08/2018

animals.

by Anonymousreply 18601/08/2018

[quote]Others won't use the word 'gay' because they basically prefer women but happen to fuck male ass from time-to-time because it's less drama than securing quickie sex from a woman.

r168, that's a weirdly distant model of sexuality, which reduces gay guys to handy human fleshlights. Besides being creepy, it makes the dial fly off my BS meter; guys who say that are disowning their own sexuality by dismissing part of it.

I'm 57, gold-star, and I've seen a lot of changes -- and I do think there's something new afoot. If nothing else, some people who are sexually fluid (and/or moving along the spectrum) are finally finding ways to be more matter-of-fact about their own humanity.

by Anonymousreply 18701/08/2018

MOstly straights and bisexuals prefer to mess around with each other, not dedicated gays. Apps, social media, and Craigslist make it easier to find each other and to be selective

by Anonymousreply 18801/08/2018

Homosexuality is the only normal form of human sexuality.

by Anonymousreply 18901/08/2018

Uh huh

by Anonymousreply 19001/09/2018

Sadly, people still think men who identify as gay are unmanly or “fruity.”

by Anonymousreply 19101/10/2018

That's very true R172.

by Anonymousreply 19201/11/2018

“GAy culture’s” open embrace of effeminacy is to blame.

by Anonymousreply 19301/12/2018

True R193, most gay men, or at least the younger more progressive ones who are more aligned with LGBT rights, cringe at drag queens, and gay men who feel the need to act effeminate yet who are misogynists who do not like women or trans women.

by Anonymousreply 19401/12/2018

[quote]As for R179, why don't you go hang out at a better gay site.

I never let the backward, provincial, parochial minority run me off. I try to educate them, as unrewarding as that goal often is.

by Anonymousreply 19501/12/2018

HMmmmm

by Anonymousreply 19601/12/2018

Makes sense

by Anonymousreply 19701/26/2018

"Most straight" individuals are so toxic they deserve to die.

by Anonymousreply 19801/26/2018

Love this trend 👍🏽

by Anonymousreply 19901/26/2018

MostlySTr84MostlyStr8

by Anonymousreply 20001/27/2018

(R189) : if Homosexuality is the "only normal form of sexuality" tell us why there are so many men who are in the closet (famous or not) : they look for surrogate mothers, sometimes adoption, they married women (sometimes they are not the biological mother!!!) and all that kind of "hard work" for pretending being straight...If homosexuality is so normal, why all this "cinema" ?????

by Anonymousreply 20101/28/2018

I don't think any Millennial- or anyone afterwards- will ever identify as "gay" again. It will be "bi" for a decade or so, and then just "whatever".

And what the hell is "questioning"? How long do you "question"- forever? Shit or get off the pot, Mary.

by Anonymousreply 20201/28/2018

"BI" is for those who are ashamed and don't assumed.....

by Anonymousreply 20301/28/2018

Uh no

by Anonymousreply 20401/28/2018

"Bisexuality" is when you don't want to choose. And when you don't choose you are nowhere........

by Anonymousreply 20501/28/2018

Bisexuality is a pit stop on the way to GAYTOWN!

by Anonymousreply 20601/28/2018

These men are cowards.

by Anonymousreply 20701/29/2018

No, they are navigating life in the manner that works individually for them, not some group identity that is not concerned with their personal identity and welfare

by Anonymousreply 20801/30/2018

Do they kiss bros?

by Anonymousreply 20902/09/2018

Guys will do anything not to identify as gay.

by Anonymousreply 21002/09/2018

R201, ever hear of a turkey baster?

by Anonymousreply 21102/09/2018

No never..... Maybe I'm completely stupid, but I can't see the "relation" between the turkey baster and the closet cases pretending being straight ????

by Anonymousreply 21202/10/2018

High profile

by Anonymousreply 21302/10/2018

Please, don't be so rude and cynical, you should be tolerant with "foreign people"...

by Anonymousreply 21402/11/2018

most "gays" dont understand the depths of who they are as most "straights" or "bisexuals" dont either.

Let everyone do their own exploring and be glad theyre opening up to WHATEVER degree.

Being angry is a sign of your own insecurity in what YOUVE found to be true.

Or not.

by Anonymousreply 21502/11/2018

???????????? Bisexuals are hypocrites. They hide their gayness with the word "bisexuality". That's all.

by Anonymousreply 21602/11/2018

Those with higher awareness,R216 have no aggression towards those with lesser. They help them "see their light" Aggression is a sign one isnt as enlightened as they think

by Anonymousreply 21702/11/2018

What do you call "Agression"? Do you understand the answer (R211) to the question (R201) ? if it's the case, please explain.

by Anonymousreply 21802/11/2018

Anyway, when you don't agree with bisexuals you are called "agressive", whatever you said or try to explain...

by Anonymousreply 21902/11/2018

To not agree R219 is one thing. But to call someone a "hypocrite" is aggression R218 It is not a neutral term. Nor a correct one, necessarily. And I dont understand your other question R218.

by Anonymousreply 22002/11/2018

It was an answer to (R189) and a question, at the same time : "if homosexuality is the only normal form of sexuality"(R189), so why gay people pretend to be straight ? why don't they assume their sexuality ? (Neil Patrick Harris married a man and not a woman for example). I think It would be a "progress" for the next generations, I hope I wasn't to much "agressive" by using "pretend" and "assume"...

by Anonymousreply 22102/11/2018

If someone has understood the answer (R211) : thanks a lot to "enlighten me" and by the way "high profile" (R213) it's an agression to me, but I don't make a big deal.

by Anonymousreply 22202/11/2018

R194 Some young guys are doing drag because is the trend ( i dont get ) and is over all the social media. To be honest i dont like effeminate guys, they alwas say things like "Daddy, Slay, Yass" or act like mean girls, i just feel uncomfortable about them.

by Anonymousreply 22302/11/2018

I think this is fantastic. Only eldergays seem to have a problem with this. I read another study from the UK stating almost half of UK's youth don't consider themselves straight.

It's great to shy away from the gay identity because the so-cakked gay Identity created a fake and unreachable lifestyle most new generations don't identify with.

Youngsters are tired of having sexuality associated with style, happiness or even sexual freedom. I'm a millennial and don't know one gay that is effeminate or that likes musicals or fashion etc. The new generations can't identify with this stupid idea of old that gays have some " essense " that always shuns masculinity and creates a beast that is supposed to be happy all the time, to know everything about style ( a la queer eye the most toxic show to sell this image) and be "fabulous". The chains are gone so the new generations want nothing to do with this fabricated BS.

by Anonymousreply 22402/11/2018

I identify as straight. I live the straight life. I bang dudes on the side so what ? Would I identify as ' vegan' if I still had roast chicken every now and then ? Dude sex is cool. I could never 'love' a guy.

by Anonymousreply 22502/11/2018

It’s cool

by Anonymousreply 22602/11/2018

[quote]I identify as straight. I live the straight life. I bang dudes on the side so what ?....Dude sex is cool. I could never 'love' a guy.

There are lots of guys like this. They enjoy sex with men and women but only have romantic for women. They identify as straight for that reason.

I identify as gay but I mostly slept with girls as a teen because I was too intimidated to approach other boys. When I got a little older, late teens-early 20s, I stopped fucking girls because of all the romantic baggage that seemed to accompany it.

I realize in both cases we're talking about bisexuality but it's become such a negative term, few people want to be labeled that.

by Anonymousreply 22702/11/2018

If you bang dudes on the side, you are not straight, by definition.

by Anonymousreply 22802/11/2018

They identify as straight because they don’t want to be associated with gay men and the stigma they endure. They also tend to think gay men are unmanly or embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 22902/11/2018

Depends on the definition. Some people define their sexuality by who they fall in love with, not who they fuck. Maybe we need new terms to clarify: bisexual but heteroromantic.

by Anonymousreply 23002/11/2018

R230, those people would just be wrong.

SEXUALITY is who you have sex with. Not who you fall in love with. That's PHILIA.

It's possible to be homosexual yet heterophiliac ... only fall in love with women, but only sexually attracted to me. You can also be bisexual and heterophiliac.

But if you're having sex with members of the same sex, one thing you are NOT, by ANY definition, is "straight". Period. You'd only be lying to yourself and everyone else to claim that.

by Anonymousreply 23102/11/2018

How does it affect your life if those men identify as straight? They fuck women, love women, date women, marry women. They do all the things straight men do but with one addition. They also fuck men.

By your way of thinking, I can't identify as gay because of my past.

by Anonymousreply 23202/11/2018

R231 fascist and bitter. Typical unhappy queen who would out people in the 80's/ 90's. Horrible narrow minded backward.

by Anonymousreply 23302/11/2018

Cuz they are not gay, sorry but if you fall in love or fuck with girls you are not homosexual. Its not that hard to understand

by Anonymousreply 23402/11/2018

r224/r225, why in the world would either of you visit a site like DL?

r232, I know it's a novel concept in this new age of 'we are what we say we are' but just because someone 'identifies' as something that doesn't make it true. If some straight identified man is sexually attracted to men and women then he is bisexual. If some gay identified man (like presumably yourself) is sexually attracted to men and women then he is bisexual. That's not an insult nor injury, this is the truth. Words matter, the meaning of words matter. I don't understand why people try to make things more complicated than they need to be. And ironically these are usually the same people who claim to abhor labels but will then try to reinvent the wheel by creating ever-more labels.

by Anonymousreply 23502/11/2018

Eldergay @R235....so sad

by Anonymousreply 23602/11/2018

R233 how is pointing out that WORDS HAVE DEFINITIONS being 'fascist and bitter'? What the fuck is wrong with you? And why are you defending bisexual men in denial? A man WHO REGULARLY AND CONTINUOUSLY HAS SEX WITH OTHER MEN is not straight. How is this statement even REMOTELY controversial?

Answer: It's not.

If you think it is, YOU are the one with the problem.

by Anonymousreply 23702/11/2018

[quote]How does it affect your life if those men identify as straight?

How does it affect your life if everyone simply acknowledges the obvious fact that they're lying to themselves and others if and when they do so?

by Anonymousreply 23802/11/2018

[quote]They do all the things straight men do but with one addition. They also fuck men.

Which is what makes them not-straight.

It's like saying they're vegetarian but they also eat bacon cheeseburgers. They can identify as vegetarian all they want, but given that they regularly and routinely eat bacon cheeseburgers, the obvious fact is that they are NOT VEGETARIAN no matter how they protest otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 23902/11/2018

'They' would do a dude every now and then. Because ' they' can.' They' don't need to. 'They' are happily straight. I had lots of fun with a few guys. They are great. You are just jealous and frustrated unhappy queens.too bad. Get over it.the world is fluid. This is not 1982 anymore

by Anonymousreply 24002/11/2018

I see it from both sides;

there ARE rules as R231 and R237 said,

but like R233 and R240--we are ALSO here to BREAK them as a way to E X P A N D their meaning.

But eventually that meaning will have a new name.

GAY-STRAIGHT-BISEXUAL-TRANS aint it.

We're still at the baby stage in our understanding of sexual hunger and desire.

And its going to end up being WAY stranger a mystery than you all think

by Anonymousreply 24102/11/2018

[quote]'They' would do a dude every now and then. Because ' they' can.' They' don't need to. 'They' are happily straight.

R240, you really seem to have a problem with the most simple and basic way words work. They're not "happily straight" if they do a dude every now an then. Men who are "happily straight" NEVER DO THAT. That's kinda what the words mean.

Why is this so difficult for you to grasp? It's so completely, blindingly obvious.

by Anonymousreply 24202/11/2018

R241, no, there are no two sides to this. There are those who see the obvious truth (not passing any judgement), and there are those who are in denial, and/or trying to erase bisexuality, or who are still dealing with a shit-ton of shame and self-esteem issues that prevents them from acknowledging reality that they are what they apparently loathe.

by Anonymousreply 24302/11/2018

Yeah, I know…

80% Straight.

Sure thing.

by Anonymousreply 24402/11/2018

I thought "mostly straight" was less about sex, but about the broader concept of "gayness". It's not that these men are having mostly straight sex, it's that they see their "gayness" mostly limited to sex with other men and not all the other things often tied to being gay, from mannerisms and speaking, to interests and activities?

Like it or not or indifferent, these types will always be around.

by Anonymousreply 24502/11/2018

You are so stupid and deluded. Most straight guys HAVE dude sex. But they will never let you in on it. Precisely because they know you are hopeless hysterical queens who side with the fraus. You are missing so much. And that's why you are mocked and marginalized. Rightly so too.

by Anonymousreply 24602/11/2018

R245 is on the money. This is about not wanting to be associated with gay culture. They're mostly straight, except for sex with dudes. They don't like musicals or Bette Davis and can't relate to being "gay." Gay, to most people, means so much more than homo sex and masc guys don't want anything to do with it.

by Anonymousreply 24702/11/2018

Thx R247

by Anonymousreply 24802/11/2018

"Gay, to most people, means so much more than homo sex and masc guys don't want anything to do with it."

I don't even think it's just very masculine guys. I think it even exists - the not identifying with the broader culture -- with some not terribly masculine, average guys as well.

by Anonymousreply 24902/11/2018

[quote]You are so stupid and deluded. Most straight guys HAVE dude sex.

The only one who is stupid and deluded is the one claiming most STRAIGHT guys have gay sex.

(rolling eyes)

Do you even listen to yourself?

by Anonymousreply 25002/11/2018

[quote]They don't like musicals or Bette Davis and can't relate to being "gay."

I'm 100% homosexual. I don't like musicals or Bette Davis and can't relate to being "gay." I cannot fathom the appeal of drag.

That's bullshit. "gay" = "homosexual".

Besides, nobody is talking about GAY here. We're talking about the simple fact that guys who have sex with men are not straight.

Why you keep bringing 'gay' into it is beyond me. Nobody is mentioning the word but you.

If you're denying the FACT that men having sex with other men are not straight, you're an idiot. If you think "not straight" equals "gay", then you're a fucking idiot.

Why do you continue to embarrass yourself with this stupidity?

by Anonymousreply 25102/11/2018

r250, I had tried responding earlier but I think it's clear that guys like r240 are just trolling, what they are saying is so patently ridiculous that I don't think even they believe it.

by Anonymousreply 25202/11/2018

You seem very invested in having everyone define theselves by your strict labels. However, it's not that cut and dried. Even in social science research people debate what bisexual actually means.

You can insist the world follow your schema but don't expect everyone to do so.

by Anonymousreply 25302/11/2018

LABELS ARE FOR CLOTHES NOT HUMANS

TRY AGAIN!

by Anonymousreply 25402/11/2018

R253, you seem very invested in denying the completely obvious and completely non-controversial statement that men who regularly have sex with other me aren't straight. Why is that? It has nothing to do with 'strict labels', and everything to do with some blatantly obvious basics.

by Anonymousreply 25502/11/2018

Sorry R255. I'm doing no such thing.

I'm simply pointing out that men who live every aspect of their lives entirely as straight men, save for the occasional M/M sex, are going to view themselves as essentially straight.

It may infuriate you but it certainly will not change in the near future.

by Anonymousreply 25602/11/2018

Clearly that's exactly what you're doing.

And who cares how they view themselves? Lots of murders view themselves as nice people. Trump views himself as intelligent. How someone views themself doesn't have to be any sort of reflection of reality. There is a thing called 'denial' you know.

It doesn't INFURIATE me that these people are lying to themselves and others.

I just find it decidedly odd that you seem confused by this.

by Anonymousreply 25702/11/2018

I'm not confused at all. I don't have to view the world in black and white.

I've pointed out that even researchers who study sexuality for a living have different ways of categorizing this phenomenon.

You can continue to insist that your way is the only way. It's fine. Most DLers have provincial and parochial views on sexuality.

Been fun talking with you but we've taken this as far as we can.

by Anonymousreply 25802/11/2018

Lets make all this simple:

Straight is not about having sex with the opposite sex-

Homosexuality is not about having sex with same sex

AND THATS WHY WE'RE GETTING CONFUSED

by Anonymousreply 25902/11/2018

I can't start threads (I accidentally deleted my cookies and it took 15 days just to be able to reply on threads), but I hope someone my find this interesting enough to start a thread:

"Gay men in Canada live with daily violence unimaginable to straight people"

by Anonymousreply 26002/11/2018

Thanks R60. Interesting as people in the US definitely have a different view of Canada.

by Anonymousreply 26102/11/2018

my = may

I find the article a bit broad, R261, but worthy of a discussion. I'd be curious what our northern neighbors have to say about it.

by Anonymousreply 26202/11/2018

^^That was for R260. Someone started your thread for you before I could.

by Anonymousreply 26302/11/2018

R260/263 Part of the problem in Canada is much of the anti-gay the violence is perpetrated by a group considered beyond reproach.

Fact.

by Anonymousreply 26402/11/2018

Thank you!

by Anonymousreply 26502/11/2018

R260 have you looked at the thread? I figured it wouldn't be accepted. DLers love Canada. And of course no one will mention the factor at R264.

by Anonymousreply 26602/11/2018

[quote]You can continue to insist that your way is the only way.

R258, you seem to be willfully obstinate.

I'm not in any way arguing 'my way or the highway'. I'm not saying these people don't exist (quite the opposite).

I'm pointing out something so obvious that I cannot fathom why you're fighting with me about it. A 'vegetarian' doesn't eat meat regularly. And a 'straight' man does not have sex with other men regularly. BY DEFINITION.

If you can't agree that words mean things, then there's no hope for you, and all communication is hereby impossible with you, because you reject even the most core, simple, and obvious meanings of words. Why? What is your agenda that you'd reject something so stupidly?

Honestly, I have no idea why you're even arguing here. Are YOU in denial or something? Maybe you should see a shrink.

by Anonymousreply 26702/11/2018

R259. YOU seem to be the one confused.

The whole point of the word 'straight' is that it means something, and that something is that they do NOT have gay sex, ever.

It's also not the case that 'not straight' means gay. That's a really stupid assumption.

I don't care what you call yourself, but if you're a man who routinely has sex with other men, no matter what else you do, you are NOT straight. By the very definition of the word straight. There are a myriad of words that might and probably do apply to you (bisexual being one of them), but straight is NOT one of them. And to argue that it does or even can is to eliminate any meaning to the word at all... and that's just ignorant and stupid.

by Anonymousreply 26802/11/2018

The guys I hookup with in their 20s are decidedly in the “mostly straight” category. They have girlfriends, or date/fuck women, but see nothing wrong with occasionally getting head/getting off with another guy.

One even told me, “I’m bisexual but I could never date a dude”. There are a lot of guys out there like that.

I wonder why so many people think bisexuality doesn’t exist when there are clearly more examples of men being in long term relationships with women and occasionally having m2m sex, than there are 100% gay men.

by Anonymousreply 26902/11/2018

WW to R269, who makes more sense than the troll arguing semantics.

by Anonymousreply 27002/11/2018

R270, you're aware that R269 doesn't in any way disagree with anything I've said. In fact, it backs everything I've said. The guy even says he was bisexual. NOT STRAIGHT. And I'm not arguing semantics, here, at all. I'm simply pointing out the very most basic definition of the word and how pretending it doesn't mean that is silly if not outright stupid.

Some of you really are deep in denial to even be arguing with me.

More power to any guy who wants to get off with other guys. Great! Just don't lie to yourself and claim to be straight if you make a habit of it. This isn't rocket science. It's not in the least bit confusing. It's not even rigid or 'black and white'. No value judgements here. Just pointing out that vegans don't eat bacon cheeseburgers, and guys who are actually straight don't regularly have sex with other men.

So strange that there's any resistance to something so simple and obvious. Clearly reading comprehension is not a strong point for a lot of people in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 27102/11/2018

Keep trolling for a fight, R271. You're just making a fool of yourself.

by Anonymousreply 27202/11/2018

Those fighting over these definitions are living in a small antiquated world .

I REPEAT:

Sex is still the mystery that NEITHER side has defined.

Because "straights" can be "homosexual" in parts.

Just as 'homosexuals " can be STRAIGHTER than STRAIGHTS in terms of direction towards the godhead.

If none of this makes ANY sense to you, it is best you stay in your smaller idea of labels and definitions and find comfort there.

But the mystery of sex is greater than you and your limited labeled definitions of it.

And those exploring those new definitions are not the deniers but the true explorers.

by Anonymousreply 27302/11/2018

Oh, sweet mystery of life at last I’ve found you-u-u…

by Anonymousreply 27402/12/2018

So can you gay fascists explain how a man born with a penis can identify as a women, but a man who lives as a hetero and fucks a guy once or twice cannot under any circumstances identify as straight , because it's not 'the truth'? Gaysplain please, morons.

by Anonymousreply 27502/12/2018

How can a straight man sometimes feel like he wants another man????

SIMPLE-

by Anonymousreply 27602/12/2018

Sorry but a straight dude dont have gay sex just like a gay dude dont have sex with girls...

by Anonymousreply 27702/12/2018

but some gay men DO!

by Anonymousreply 27802/12/2018

I can only speak from experience. I consider myself gay but never identified with anything so-called gay. I hate divas, musicals, fashion and have better things to do than act like a 12 year old catty mean girl even though I'm an adult so my friends are mostly straight guys and some bissexuality mostly because our friendship is based on common interested like rock and roll ( I'm a guitar player), biology -- my major and things most regular guys do.

I'm yet to meet one single straight person who hasn't slept with the same gender. Once they learn I'm gay but not "those type of gays" they open up to me. I actually met my bissexuality husband through mutual friends when he confided to me he likes men too.

Efemniate men are a minority it's just the truth, that's why they're mocked because they're not common. We should respect them but at the same time you need to understand that no dude bro ( gay straight or bi) will open up to a gossipy guy acting like a 12 year old school girl.

Funny I was watching old videos of the gay movement from the 70s and they look way more manly than the annoying femme guys at your LGBT center telling you to find your gay essence and shouting closet case to those who dislike divas and their uninteresting taste.

by Anonymousreply 27902/12/2018

This thread should be renamed the Homophobia thread. It's dripping with it.

by Anonymousreply 28002/12/2018

R278 They are not gay

by Anonymousreply 28102/12/2018

R279 is onto something. It's the queens who feel excluded from straight society (but, for the most part imprisoned themselves in a gay ghetto) that have an issue with this topic.

They really have no clue how sex works in the modern world.

by Anonymousreply 28202/12/2018

I say if you get a blow job from a guy you’re as gay as he is—you’re having sex with another guy. That’s the definition of gay. If you ask me.

by Anonymousreply 28302/12/2018

R272, I'm not fighting. I'm just stating the obvious. I'm not making a fool of myself. Only those claiming straight guys have regular sex with other men are making fools of themselves.

It's amazing to me how poor your reasoning and reading comprehension are.

by Anonymousreply 28402/12/2018

R275, what is it that you don't understand about the difference between 'once or twice', and "regularly and consistently"?

God, do you TRY to be stupid, or does it just come naturally to you?

by Anonymousreply 28502/12/2018

R284 Can't fight facts so insult the intelligence of the other posters. That makes you look [bold]brilliant.[/bold]

R283 So since I've fucked girls, I'm straight. That's the very definition of straight.

by Anonymousreply 28602/12/2018

^^^ Fucking girls is straight. Fucking boys is gay. I don’t know why anyone needs to complicate it further.

by Anonymousreply 28702/12/2018

[quote]R284 Can't fight facts ...

Dude... I'm not the one fighting facts. I'm the one pointing out the most simple, basic, and obvious facts in existence.

What "facts" do you think I'm fighting? I can't wait to hear.

by Anonymousreply 28802/12/2018

[quote]So since I've fucked girls, I'm straight. That's the very definition of straight.

Um. No. Are you seriously this stupid? Are you really this bad with even the most basic logic and reasoning? I mean come on...

by Anonymousreply 28902/12/2018

Mess around with "sexually fluid" guys and eventually your body parts will end up in the potted plants in some old lady's yard.

by Anonymousreply 29002/12/2018

R287 thanks. I'll tell my friends that I've been mistaken all this this time and that an anonymous poster on DL has determined I'm straight.

R289 you need to cunt it up with R283, not me. Come on, is your reading comprehension so poor you couldn't tell I was replying to him? I even addressed him directly. Are you really so bad with even the most basic logic that you don't recognize reductio ad absurdum? If R283 says a man having sex with a man is the definition of gay then a man having sex with a woman is the definition of straight. His logic, not mine.

Are you really so stupid that you can't tell were all laughing at your pathetic trolling? Guess so...

by Anonymousreply 29102/12/2018

[quote]So since I've fucked girls, I'm straight. That's the very definition of straight.

If you are a man and you have sex with these women because you are sexually attracted to them then you are straight or bisexual. It's not that complicated.

But this guy is an obvious troll so there is no point in asking why he doesn't understand basic concepts. No explanation will ever be enough.

by Anonymousreply 29202/12/2018

I'm not the one trolling. In fact, it seems I'm the only one NOT trolling.

But I am sorta just laughing at all of you and the weird, bizarre assumptions you're making and conclusions you're leaping to all while trying to deny the most obvious and true little statement possible.

by Anonymousreply 29302/12/2018

R297, how am I trolling?

by Anonymousreply 29402/12/2018

[quote]If you are a man and you have sex with these women because you are sexually attracted to them then you are straight or bisexual. It's not that complicated.

And yet you have no objection to R283's generalization. You know, the one I was replying to. (I'll tell you a second time: You're replying to a reply. Address the original idiocy.)

Trollin', trollin', trollin'...

by Anonymousreply 29502/12/2018

R283 was just joking, I'm assuming. You know. Trolling. Duh?

by Anonymousreply 29602/12/2018

I have to laugh. While this stupid, repetitive thread sputters to its eventual death, straight-identified men all over the world are blowing their loads into other men, oblivious to ancient queens denying their existence.

[quote]They fuck women, love women, date women, marry women. They do all the things straight men do but with one addition. They also fuck men.

It really is that simple. And the OP's link is correct. "Mostly straight" is a better identifier for these men than bisexual, which implies the man views his relations with both sexes more or less equally.

But it really doesn't matter much to mostly straight men. They're out having fun while you argue about how they define themselves.

by Anonymousreply 29702/12/2018

Totally not gay

by Anonymousreply 29802/12/2018

R297, who do you think is denying their existence? (rolling eyes)

by Anonymousreply 29902/12/2018

Hmmmmm, R299. It started around R8, picked up steam at R11-12, and blossomed into full madness at R21, stating they're all closet cases.

(rolling eyes)

by Anonymousreply 30002/12/2018

Heres where all those upset over the lack of strict labels get quiet:

Why is it so important to you how people identify themselves?

GO! Tell us the depths of your concern.

We're talking DEPTHS.

by Anonymousreply 30102/12/2018

R301 I asked that question at R232 but have received no sensible answer as of yet.

by Anonymousreply 30202/12/2018

R298/R299 has written more than two dozen long-winded posts in this thread, mostly argumentative, nonsesensical, repetitive, and mocking other posters.

In the end, though, he's going to win the Troll's Victory. Eventually, one by one, people will tire of trying to reason with the unreasonable, will tire of sarcastic replies to serious posts, and just abandon the thread.

Then, when he's all alone, he can finally get the last word and he's achieved the Troll's Victory. He's outlasted everyone else and, in his mind, won the argument.

by Anonymousreply 30302/12/2018

80% Straight. Who’s to say I’m not.

by Anonymousreply 30402/12/2018

I'm sorry, why do you think saying that straight guys don't have sex with other guys is 'unreasonable'? It's the very fucking definition of the word!

You guys really are off the deep-end.

There's nothing "reasonable" about your bizarre counter-factual assertion that 'straight' means bisexual. It's just fucking laughable.

by Anonymousreply 30502/12/2018

Up means down. Black means white. North means south. Words have no meaning anymore! Why bother even trying to communicate if definitions of words are random and left up to every individual?!?

by Anonymousreply 30602/12/2018

If you are a guy and you have regular sex with other guys, not just one experiment in college... you're not straight. "Mostly straight"? Whatever sure. "80% percent straight?" Fine, whatever. Bisexual? Most certainly. But you're not "straight". And if you feel compelled to call yourself 'straight' then I have to wonder what kind of denial you're in, or what kind of internalized homophobia you're dealing with.

by Anonymousreply 30702/12/2018

[quote]Funny I was watching old videos of the gay movement from the 70s and they look way more manly than the annoying femme guys at your LGBT center telling you to find your gay essence and shouting closet case to those who dislike divas and their uninteresting taste.

This is true, and as someone who was a child in the 1980s and a teen in the 1990s, that's why I envy the generation of gays before mine: you had actual men to lust after, not soy boys.

by Anonymousreply 30802/12/2018

And who said gays don't like rock music? If that's the case, then explain Elton John.

by Anonymousreply 30902/12/2018

"Sorry but a straight dude dont have gay sex just like a gay dude dont have sex with girls..."

We get that; we really do. But a lot of these posts are explaining the mindset of the "mostly straight" dudes, who, obviously, don't completely agree with your definitions. There's all this defensiveness about "these guys aren't straight." Yeah, again, we understand that, but people are trying to expound on what the "mostly straight" guys are thinking, which is apparently that "straightness" encompasses sexual conduct and a host of other behavior, characteristics, interests, and cultural touch points.

Yes, I generally agree that once you're sucking cock,you're not straight. But, some people aren't defining themselves in those terms.

by Anonymousreply 31002/12/2018

Because some dont desire that aspect as much as penetration.

The desire to penetrate the world with your phallus is, on the most basic level,the most basic definition of male sexuality;

a simple,straight definition.

To suck is another thing, much like eating.

by Anonymousreply 31102/12/2018

When I was in Waikiki in the 80’s there was a gift shop called “80% Straight”. It sold gay souvenirs, pride-colored stuff, porn videos, cock rings, dildos and other gay stuff. At the time it seemed hilarious to me that the name of the shop was probably mocking someone hanging on to vestiges of their straightness.

by Anonymousreply 31202/12/2018

What about mostly Gay? Because Bisexual is too Straight.

by Anonymousreply 31302/13/2018

I also have one for the ones who claim to be the most intelligent in here, someone who regularly sleeps with men only and love to both suck and take a dick, no exceptions, but deny it´s Gay, what would that person be?

by Anonymousreply 31402/13/2018

hyper male and hungry

by Anonymousreply 31502/13/2018

R315 THIS

by Anonymousreply 31602/13/2018

Thank you R316.

I'll take it.

by Anonymousreply 31702/13/2018

What does Jack Donovan call himself?

by Anonymousreply 31802/13/2018

[quote]What about mostly Gay?

During a period in my early 20s, I was mostly gay. I wasn't entirely gay because I still had sex with girls here and there. Not so much as in my teens, but I was still into it if was NSA. However, I'm a romantic at heart and sleeping with girls wasn't helping me find a bf.

by Anonymousreply 31902/13/2018

[quote]Yes, I generally agree that once you're sucking cock,you're not straight. But, some people aren't defining themselves in those terms.

As has been pointed out many times, not everyone defines themselves accurately. Many are in denial, for many reasons.

You can define yourself as a vegetarian all you want, but if you eat bacon cheeseburgers, you're not actually, really one. You're just lying to yourself and others.

It's not *defensive* to say that they're not really vegetarian, just like it's not *defensive* to say that a guy who claims to be straight but who has regular sex with other men isn't actually straight.

I wouldn't be arguing if he claimed to be 'mostly straight' if they mostly have sex with women, and only have *relationships* with women. The denial is that someone who regularly has sex with members of the same sex cannot call themselves 'straight' without lying to themselves and to others.

Again, there's nothing controversial about this. I'm not denying behavior exists, or denying that some are in denial about their behavior. I'm making no judgement calls at all.

by Anonymousreply 32002/13/2018

Being a vegetarian is MUCH simpler and "straightforward" than definitions regarding one's sexual being R320.

"STRAIGHT" is becoming more and more nonsensical in this ever evolving modern world.

An actually offensive no matter WHO uses it, for non-"straights" are not BENT nor CURVED.

Actually, its outdated and of use only to the young who are new to the mystery of sex.

And you ARE making judgments, albeit unconscious ones. But I enjoy your communication.

by Anonymousreply 32102/13/2018

[quote]I wouldn't be arguing if he claimed to be 'mostly straight' if they mostly have sex with women, and only have *relationships* with women.

That's what this thread is about or was supposed to be about. If there were some "Mostly Straight" category, the men you describe would use it. Some, anyway.

No one wants to be called bisexual, not even "true" bisexuals.

by Anonymousreply 32202/13/2018

It’s the bailiwick of the closeted gay to move into “mostly straight” or “not gay” territory. They just want it all—or the best of both worlds. Most are doomed not to be able to pull it off in the end. It must be exhausting for those who work hard at it, like John Travolta.

by Anonymousreply 32302/13/2018

No one has yet solved the mystery of "both worlds" R323

And it IS exhausting.

But ANY new discovery is.

And the answer to the mystery of sex is still something new to those of us still using old definitions.

by Anonymousreply 32402/13/2018

R314 question, I tell you what I was aiming at, might be a rare one, but how about a woman. Open your minds a bit.

by Anonymousreply 32502/14/2018

Okay

by Anonymousreply 326Last Saturday at 4:20 AM

All this compartmentalised view of sexuality is misleading. Splitting your sexuality into 'romantic' and 'sexual' is bogus. Romance and love are very subjective....nebulous concepts....sexual attraction is a physical truth. If a man enjoys sex with other men he obviously finds them attractive. There fore is bi

by Anonymousreply 327Last Saturday at 4:32 AM

No,

therefore he ENJOYS SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN

by Anonymousreply 328Last Saturday at 4:37 AM

Times change.

by Anonymousreply 329Last Saturday at 6:44 AM

R198 why not join the Westboro baptist church? You would fit right in there.

by Anonymousreply 330Last Saturday at 7:30 AM

[quote]Splitting your sexuality into 'romantic' and 'sexual' is bogus.

One of the silliest comments on this thread, which is saying something. Bisexual males who only fall in love with women are the majority, if you're including guys who actually identify as straight or mostly straight.

by Anonymousreply 331Last Saturday at 8:36 AM

R331 actually there are a lot of bisexual men who can fall in love with either sex/gender, and there are also bisexual men who only or mainly fall in love with men. But this thread is about bisexual men who mainly have relationships with women.

by Anonymousreply 332Last Saturday at 8:40 AM

r332, not sure where you are getting 'a lot' from. Surveys show that close to 90% of bisexuals are in opposite sex relationships.

by Anonymousreply 333Last Monday at 3:28 PM

[quote]actually there are a lot of bisexual men who can fall in love with either sex/gender, and there are also bisexual men who only or mainly fall in love with men.

I never claimed otherwise. Reread what I wrote at R331.

by Anonymousreply 334Last Monday at 3:34 PM
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